Now for Something Completely Weird: “Migration”

Very strange creatures who migrate
Arts • Views: 60,179

Vimeo

A vintage nature film follows the migratory pattern of a herd of wild creatures.

Official Selection:
Pictoplasma 2014
Toronto International Film Festival 2014
Encounters Short Film And Animation Festival 2014
Berwick Film And Media Festival 2014
Matsula Nature Film Festival 2014
Anim’est 2014
Hamptons International Film Festival 2014
Toronto After Dark Film Festival 2014
Reggio Film Festival 2014
AmerAsia Film Festival 2014
CutOut Fest 2014
International Art-Forum St.Petersburg 2014
Klik Amsterdam Animation Festival 2014
AFI Film Festival 2014
Flux Screening Series 2014
St.Louis International Film Festival 2014
International Short Film Festival Leuven 2014
Whistler Film Festival 2014
International Digital Animation Festival Nagoya 2014
One Screen Awards 2015
Anima 2015
Regard Sur Le Court Metrage 2015
FICL Festival International De Cine Lanzarote 2015
Cleveland International Film Festival 2015
Boston Underground Film Festival 2015
Stockholm International Film Festival Junior 2015
Cartoons By The Bay 2015
Nashville International Film Festival 2015
Northwest Animation Festival 2015
Hamburg International Short Film Festival 2015
C’est Right Short Film Festival 2015
Anima Mundi 2015
Animation Block Party 2015
Fantasia Film Festival 2015
Melbourne International Film Festival 2015
Atlantic Film Festival 2015
Off-Court Trouville 2015
Cinema Des Gens D’Ici 2015
Sunrise Film Festival 2015
Northern Wave Film Festival 2015
Interfilm Short Film Festival 2015
London International Animation Festival 2015

Awards:
Supertoon 2014 Special Jury Mention
SeeMor Film Festival 2014 Best Animation
Giraf Festival of Animated Film 2014 Best Canadian Film
Canadian Screen Awards 2015 Best Animated Film Nominee
Jutra Awards 2015 Best Animated Film Nominee
Athens Animest 2015 Best Experimental Film 3rd Place
USA Film Festival 2015 Best Experimental Film
Kan-Kan Media Long Week Of Short Films 2015 Special Jury Award

Presented by www.ShortOfTheWeek.com/
Press Kit http://fluorescenthill.com/migrationpress.html

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370 comments
1
Belafon  Nov 14, 2015 • 8:38:49pm

“I always wanted to go to Canada, but then South Park went, so we didn’t get to go.” - Peter, Family Guy.

2
De Kolta Chair  Nov 14, 2015 • 8:48:14pm

Flag, flag, wave flag, flag, flag, wave flag. We cool, U.S. of A.?

3
Belafon  Nov 14, 2015 • 8:49:05pm

I like the music in the video.

I’m not a huge fan of complicated musical pieces. I tend to like orchestra music that sounds like that, songs that create a mood rather than showing how technically awesome the composer was. I want to relax when listening to them, not feel like I’m racing toward a wall.

4
Feline Fearless Leader  Nov 14, 2015 • 9:02:49pm

Video is loading horribly slow for me - even with the HD turned off. Seems to be a common issue I have with the videos posted as thread leaders. Probably mix of an old laptop and my internet service. (At least I’m not forced through ad hell first like YouTube seems to require for everything now.)

5
Great White Snark  Nov 14, 2015 • 9:10:35pm

I liked the story and the music. But why make some of it look like print footage that would have been immediately tossed out and re shot?

6
teleskiguy  Nov 14, 2015 • 9:13:39pm

What a marvelous little short! Gorgeous!

7
De Kolta Chair  Nov 14, 2015 • 9:22:20pm

♫ Well, I see you got your brand new 8mm pill-box hat? ♬

8
De Kolta Chair  Nov 14, 2015 • 9:27:44pm

‘Nighty night all

Jack “King” Kirby
9
Dark_Falcon  Nov 14, 2015 • 9:36:49pm

And in my continuing “stories featuring the the word ‘Benghazi’ that are actually about Libya” series, I have some good news:

Libya IS head ‘killed in US air strike’

A US air strike has targeted the leader of the Islamic State (IS) group in Libya and probably killed him, the Pentagon says.

Iraqi national Abu Nabil, also known as Wissam Najm Abd Zayd al-Zubaydi, was a “long-time al-Qaeda operative”, it said.

The strike took place on Friday and targeted a compound in Derna.

The Pentagon said the strike showed that it would go after IS leaders “wherever they operate”.

The operation was authorized before the Paris attacks, but it still great to see the USAF get some payback from Daesh with a successful “Yamamoto Mission”.

10
Dark_Falcon  Nov 14, 2015 • 9:39:21pm

So Abu Nabil was all like “The Islamic State is victorious over the inf-“, then he stopped because America’s F15Es were all

11
Lancelot Link  Nov 14, 2015 • 9:43:38pm

I love vintage documentaries like that.

Building A Human

12
KGxvi  Nov 14, 2015 • 9:59:07pm

Apparently Ronda Rousey just lost.

13
Eclectic Cyborg  Nov 14, 2015 • 10:02:19pm

re: #12 KGxvi

Apparently Ronda Rousey just lost.

Damn…to who?

14
makeitstop  Nov 14, 2015 • 10:03:09pm

re: #11 Lancelot Link

I love vintage documentaries like that.

[Embedded content]

Video

For some reason it reminds me of this one by Damon Albarn.

Damon Albarn - Everyday Robots (Official Video)

15
teleskiguy  Nov 14, 2015 • 10:04:10pm

Winter!

16
retired cynic  Nov 14, 2015 • 10:09:02pm

re: #15 teleskiguy

You can have that!

17
KGxvi  Nov 14, 2015 • 10:09:05pm

re: #13 Eclectic Cyborg

Holly Holm. Second round knockout, kick to the head. Holm is the first person to be a world champion in both boxing and MMA. I suspected when it was announced that this would be Rousey’s toughest match to date. But like Tyson in the 80s, I didn’t think she would actually lose

18
Feline Fearless Leader  Nov 14, 2015 • 10:16:39pm

G’night Lizards - something from the 1996 England visit.

HMS Warrior
19
teleskiguy  Nov 14, 2015 • 10:23:16pm

re: #16 retired cynic

You can have that!

Oh yeah…

My deck in the middle of the winter years ago in Steamboat Springs, CO.

20
Feline Fearless Leader  Nov 14, 2015 • 10:29:12pm

Just scanned this one today. Nothern NY State in 1978 or so. Neighbor across the street shoveling snow off his roof.

21
Dark_Falcon  Nov 14, 2015 • 10:30:43pm

re: #18 Feline Fearless Leader

G’night Lizards - something from the 1996 England visit.

[Embedded content]

A hull reduced to being a pier for decades till the Royal Navy realized what she was and restored her. Warrior was the first iron-clad steam warship.

22
Feline Fearless Leader  Nov 14, 2015 • 10:32:25pm

re: #21 Dark_Falcon

A hull reduced to being a pier for decades till the Royal Navy realized what she was and restored her. Warrior was the first iron-clad steam warship.

Iron-hulled one at least. Gloire preceeded her, and was steam-powered.

23
Dark_Falcon  Nov 14, 2015 • 10:34:16pm

re: #22 Feline Fearless Leader

Iron-hulled one at least. Gloire preceeded her, and was steam-powered.

True, but that was a Frog ship, not a ship from a Real Man’s Navy.

/Kidding and good reply, OT.

24
Jenner7  Nov 14, 2015 • 11:45:02pm

Very late to the party, but I found this pretty funny. Why are Sander’s fans relying on twitter polls??

Yeah.

G’night. Have a pleasant Sunday.

25
The Great Eye  Nov 14, 2015 • 11:47:37pm

re: #17 KGxvi

Holly Holm. Second round knockout, kick to the head. Holm is the first person to be a world champion in both boxing and MMA. I suspected when it was announced that this would be Rousey’s toughest match to date. But like Tyson in the 80s, I didn’t think she would actually lose

Nobody gave Holm much of a chance since she has very little ground game and it was figured Ronda would get a takedown and submit her. Ronda’s ‘charge at Holm like a zombie’ gameplan however only led to one takedown and a weak attempt at an armbar (Ronda should have relaxed and just kept control on the ground instead of going for the arm.) After that Holm’s edge in the stand-up really shined as she beat Ronda silly before finishing her in the 2nd.

26
Dr Lizardo  Nov 15, 2015 • 1:17:46am

re: #25 The Great Eye

re: #13 Eclectic Cyborg

This gif shows the moment Rousey got KO’ed:

gfycat.com re: #12 KGxvi

Morning, Lizards.

27
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 2:31:58am

Going to war with a non-state - like ISIS - is problematic in itself. When you broaden it to the whole of radical Islam, it gets even less realistic.

You can no more go to war with radical Islam than you can nail jelly to a wall.

Sure, it would be nice to get rid of radical Islam, radical Christianity, radical Judaism, radical Buddhism, radical Shamanism and so on. You just can’t do it through “war”. Look at “war on drugs”.

28
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 2:41:37am

I hereby declare the War on Global Warming, War on Obesity, War on Puns and, to end all wars, the War on War.
Our F15s are already bombing the targets.
Together we will win.

29
freetoken  Nov 15, 2015 • 3:01:26am

I often plea for using the spoiler tag here… alas, I plead in vain…

Nevertheless

Click to Reveal

… Rousey was really sloppy in that fight, the worst she has done that I’ve seen. Was it her pride, trying to be a boxer when she is not? She’s a judo expert but lately she’s been really trying to prove herself as being an all-rounder. Rousey was a heavy favorite and it was predicted that the gambling outfits would take a bath on her first loss, which they probably did tonight. I don’t know why they didn’t give Holm more credit for being a boxing champ. I expect the re-match to be quite the draw as far as UFC is concerned.

It does all strike me as being a bit brutal, a bit barbaric in some sense. It would have been considered quite scandalous at one time for women to be professional fighters.

30
darthstar  Nov 15, 2015 • 3:11:52am
31
darthstar  Nov 15, 2015 • 3:13:16am

re: #29 freetoken

Did Bernie beat her too?

32
darthstar  Nov 15, 2015 • 3:15:39am

re: #24 Jenner7

Very late to the party, but I found this pretty funny. Why are Sander’s fans relying on twitter polls??

[Embedded content]

Yeah.

G’night. Have a pleasant Sunday.

That’s just a poll of his followers. But yeah, the ability for anyone to poll the internet kind of diminishes polling overall…unless you aggregate all of the polls, even small ones like one guy’s tweet, and then you might have something.

33
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 3:17:32am

re: #32 darthstar

and then you might have something.

When you clump 100 bullshit hills together, all you get is a bullshit mountain…

34
darthstar  Nov 15, 2015 • 3:18:45am

re: #33 Nyet

When you clump 100 bullshit hills together, all you get is a bullshit mountain…

(screamed in my best heavy metal voice) I’m a man on a fecal mountaaaaaaiiin!

35
darthstar  Nov 15, 2015 • 3:21:46am
36
freetoken  Nov 15, 2015 • 3:36:51am

MP3 Audio

37
Dr Lizardo  Nov 15, 2015 • 3:38:10am

OK, I just had to share this because it is so spectacularly insane. I’m putting it in a spoiler tag because I don’t want to be responsible for any ensuing brain damage, so read it your own risk.

Click to Reveal

A stunning new report issued today by the Ministry of Defense (MoD) to the policy makers of the Security Council (SC) states that yesterdays attacks in Paris can be likened to a “ritual massacre” and was “orchestrated/directed” by a secretive “element/cabal” of Freemasons (Masonic/Masons) holding high positions of power within the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), the French General Directorate for External Security (DGSE), the British Secret Intelligence Service (SIS/MI6), Israel’s Directorate of Military Intelligence (DMI) and the Vatican. (Note: words/phrases appearing in quotes “” in this report are English approximations for Russian words having no exact language counterpart.)

Immediately after this 27 October meeting of these Western spy chiefs with Vice President Biden, this report states, the initial GRU report filed with the MoD about it “warned/strongly suggested” that the Jesuit-Masonic makeup of these “cabal/plotters” could not rule out a retaliatory strike against the Federation organized by this group on 13 November as these secretive organizations frequently, if not always, “schedule/plan” their false-flag massacres to coincide with “important/mystical” dates important to them.

Important to note is that unlike many of its other national counterparts, the Federation devotes an enormous amount of monetary and intellectual resources to what is called “esoteric/satanic/religious” intelligence due to their experiences in the Great Patriotic War (World War II) against the German Nazi Empire—a war fought not only against armies, but against the “unknown/unseen” forces behind that monstrous regime.
Especially alarming about the 27 October meeting of these spy chiefs in Washington D.C., this report continues, was DGSE Director Bernard Bajolet stating afterwards that the Federation protected nation of Syria “will be different from what had been established after World War II”—which in turn led the GRU to warn the MoD that the Freemasons “Master Magic numbers of 11 and 13” were now in play.

Wow. All I can say is, “Hail Hydra!!”……or something. That is some weapons-grade batshit crazy. I can only hope it’s satire, because if it’s not, then I fear not even the combined powers of God, Buddha, the Tao and the Flying Spaghetti Monster can save humanity.

donotlink.com

38
freetoken  Nov 15, 2015 • 3:40:09am

MP3 Audio

39
Decatur Deb  Nov 15, 2015 • 3:41:46am

re: #37 Dr Lizardo

OK, I just had to share this because it is so spectacularly insane. I’m putting it in a spoiler tag because I don’t want to be responsible for any ensuing brain damage, so read it your own risk.

[Embedded content]

Wow. All I can say is, “Hail Hydra!!”……or something. That is some weapons-grade batshit crazy. I can only hope it’s satire, because if it’s not, then I fear not even the combined powers of God, Buddha, the Tao and the Flying Spaghetti Monster can save humanity.

donotlink.com

I like a little wedge of crazy with my morning coffee.

40
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 3:43:51am

re: #37 Dr Lizardo

I can only hope it’s satire, because if it’s not, then I fear not even the combined powers of God, Buddha, the Tao and the Flying Spaghetti Monster can save humanity.

I’m not sure why a random crazy blog post would indicate humanity’s demise…

41
Dr Lizardo  Nov 15, 2015 • 3:50:01am

re: #40 Nyet

I’m not sure why a random crazy blog post would indicate humanity’s demise…

I’m joking of course, but I’m quite sure there’s more than a few people out there who will point to this as proof of a “false flag” operation, especially as the report explicitly references Russian intelligence as having submitted a report to the Russian Security Council, thus giving it a hint of authenticity. And as we all know, once something like that is out there in the infosphere, it’s pretty much becomes gospel truth for far too many.

42
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 3:51:15am

re: #41 Dr Lizardo

Our Lizard-Freemason masters will take care of it. They always do.

43
Decatur Deb  Nov 15, 2015 • 3:58:21am

It’s better if a few people believe all the crazy, rather than everyone grooming his personal favorite crazy.

44
darthstar  Nov 15, 2015 • 3:59:43am

re: #43 Decatur Deb

It’s better if a few people believe all the crazy, rather than everyone grooming his personal chunk of crazy.

Just so long as they’re equally represented in government.

45
Decatur Deb  Nov 15, 2015 • 4:00:43am

re: #44 darthstar

Just so long as they’re equally represented in government.

Crazy is fungible.

46
darthstar  Nov 15, 2015 • 4:02:45am

re: #45 Decatur Deb

Crazy is fungible.

Well, there is a big market for it…it’s called the United States.

47
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 4:02:55am

I think the Islamist mass murder in Paris won’t be a huge factor in the election that is still more than a year away. It always seems so in the first days, but then people cool off and forget.

That’s not the problem. The problem is what happens if shit hits the fan very close to the election day.

The prospect of a Trump presidency is all too real, contrary to what complacent optimists think. And if not Trump, then Carson, who is arguably worse.

48
Decatur Deb  Nov 15, 2015 • 4:05:58am

Great-granddaughter and her parents are visiting. To meet everyone’s holiday schedules we are holding 3 Thanksgivings and 2 Christmases. Time to clean the grill, prep the turkey, and load the charcoal.

49
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 4:07:49am

A footnote to the above: why is Carson worse than Trump if both are assholes? Because ideology matters more than simply being an asshole. Trump wants to remain a prosperous billionaire. His thoughts are in “this” world. He’s a secular protofascist. His Bible-thumping doesn’t convince anyone. Carson is a theofascist with the Apocalypse on his mind.

50
Decatur Deb  Nov 15, 2015 • 4:08:33am

Sergei—GGD is hours away from walking and talking, and has a head of flaming red hair.

51
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 4:10:24am

re: #50 Decatur Deb

Eh?

52
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 4:10:57am

Ah. Great-granddaughter. Gotcha.

53
Decatur Deb  Nov 15, 2015 • 4:12:05am

re: #51 Nyet

Eh?

Re our old discussions about the depth and distribution of anti-ginger feelings.

54
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 4:23:55am

Whenever I see Genndy Tartakovsky’s name, I have a fit of OCD.

“It’s Gennady, Gennady, Gennady, damn it!”

55
freetoken  Nov 15, 2015 • 4:52:28am

So, I’m setting off to write a monograph on one of my ancestors and his family… and realize it’s a daunting task. I think I will try to follow some of the MLA guidelines: owl.english.purdue.edu but I want to also be free to break the style if my inner artist says to do so.

56
Brian J.  Nov 15, 2015 • 5:03:55am

PPP did an instant poll of the Democratic debate last night. Clinton was their choice as the winner 67-20-7, winning according to a majority of every demographic.

57
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 5:07:01am

re: #56 Brian J.

Very good.

58
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 5:07:56am

Seems like the radical-Islam-gambit failed.

59
Brian J.  Nov 15, 2015 • 5:33:15am

re: #58 Nyet

Seems like the radical-Islam-gambit failed.

Next time it works will be the first.

60
A Mom Anon  Nov 15, 2015 • 5:39:44am

The wingnuts howling on my husband’s Facebook feed are talking about the passport found near the body of the suicide bomber at the soccer stadium. So, let’s follow this a little…1) Do terrorists often carry ID with them? and 2) How would a passport survive a suicide bombing? and 3) Ain’t it kinda funny that this is supposedly the passport of a Syrian refugee? I may be cynical in my old age, but that’s just a little too neat and tidy for me.

61
SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN  Nov 15, 2015 • 5:47:09am

re: #60 A Mom Anon

I wonder whether the passport has any significance anyway. For all I know, carrying one’s passport may be routine, as automatic as making sure you didn’t forget your wallet when you go out. Maybe the terrorist figured it would blow up when he detonated his own explosives. Sometimes a passport is just a passport.

62
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 5:48:12am

re: #60 A Mom Anon

The wingnuts howling on my husband’s Facebook feed are talking about the passport found near the body of the suicide bomber at the soccer stadium. So, let’s follow this a little…1) Do terrorists often carry ID with them? and 2) How would a passport survive a suicide bombing? and 3) Ain’t it kinda funny that this is supposedly the passport of a Syrian refugee? I may be cynical in my old age, but that’s just a little too neat and tidy for me.

I’d advise against quasi-troofer just-asking-questions and wait for more info.

63
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 5:49:23am

re: #59 Brian J.

Next time it works will be the first.

Bush II. Spain. Not at all the first.

64
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 5:52:06am

re: #61 SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN

There is no question about why one would want one’s passport handy. Before you blow yourself up you have to get there. Before you get there you may be stopped by a cop. If you don’t have the pass, you run a risk of being slowed down, if not detained. What’s so hard about it to get?

65
Dr Lizardo  Nov 15, 2015 • 5:52:32am

re: #60 A Mom Anon

re: #62 Nyet

There are some reports out there saying that US intel thinks the Syrian passport found at the Paris massacre crime scene may well be a forgery.

A US intelligence official has told CBS News that the Syrian passport recovered after Friday nights’ attacks - and believed to belong to one of the bombers - may be a fake, writes Louisa Loveluck, Telegraph’s Middle East Correspondent.

The official said the passport did not contain the correct numbers for a legitimate Syrian passport and the picture did not match the name.

telegraph.co.uk half-way down the page, under the heading “Fake Passport Suggestions”.

66
SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN  Nov 15, 2015 • 5:54:22am

re: #65 Dr Lizardo

Louisa Loveluck? That has to be a pseudonym.

67
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 5:54:28am

re: #65 Dr Lizardo

This could easily be a forgery by ISIS to provoke against the refugees.

But a suggestion that it was planted afterwards is trooferism.

68
A Mom Anon  Nov 15, 2015 • 5:55:16am

re: #67 Nyet

OK, I’m an idiot, never freaking mind then.

69
SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN  Nov 15, 2015 • 5:55:36am

The point of the attack is to provoke people against the refugees.

70
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 5:57:54am

re: #69 SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN

The point of the attack is to provoke people against the refugees.

The point is to stir shit up on all fronts, incl. refugees and native Muslim communities.

71
Dr Lizardo  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:00:22am

re: #67 Nyet

This could easily be a forgery by ISIS to provoke against the refugees.

But a suggestion that it was planted afterwards is trooferism.

Yeah, I doubt it was planted afterwards; that being said, I wouldn’t be shocked if it was indeed a fake passport. Turkey is awash in “Syrian passports” which can be had for the right price. Some of my Turkish friends have been complaining about it lately.

72
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:01:45am

re: #71 Dr Lizardo

It could be fake in a way, but if fake, it would be based on a real one, given the Greek statements.

73
Dark_Falcon  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:01:54am

re: #35 darthstar

No, it was a group of hate-filled Radical Islamists who created ISIS, not George W. Bush or Dick Cheney.

You can argue that Operation: IRAQI FREEDOM created the conditions for ISIS to exist, but that is not, repeat not the same as the creation of the group. As such that meme is slanderous and is downdinged accordingly.

74
A Mom Anon  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:03:39am

I never said it was a planted passport. Hell, in the freaking chaos someone could have lost or dropped one in the general area. I’d wager you’d find purses, the occasional wallet and other personal possessions all over the place after something like this happens anywhere.I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer all the time, but I’m not a fucking truther. The whole point of this mess was to cause more hatred towards Muslims and refugees. I was asking questions based on what the fucking morons on my husband’s newsfeed were saying this morning. Obviously my communication skills are lacking.

75
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:03:53am

re: #73 Dark_Falcon

There is a certain “political truth” to that message… but it is ambiguous enough to be used by conspiracy theorists who literally believe that ISIS is a CIA creation.

76
Dr Lizardo  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:06:21am

re: #72 Nyet

It could be fake in a way, but if fake, it would be based on a real one, given the Greek statements.

It also doesn’t help matters that when Da’esh took over towns in Syria, they frequently managed to get hold of blank passports and the equipment that prints them up. That makes matters worse - not to mention they can use that to generate some $$$ with a thriving fake-ID industry.

77
Doofus  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:07:25am

I am a once proud owner of a VW TDI affected by an emissions scandal. I just received a letter from VW offering me a $500 VISA card and and $500 credit to use at VW dealership while they try to “fix” the problem. By my math they just coughed up $500,000,000. It’s a good start.

78
Dark_Falcon  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:09:26am

re: #69 SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN

The point of the attack is to provoke people against the refugees.

Not entirely, or even primarily. The biggest objective was likely to build support for the so-called ‘Islamic State’ by mounting a highly visible attack on the “Crusaders”, thus providing a major infusion of terror-porn for its fanboys. The hoped for result is both more recruits traveling to Syria or Iraq, while others mount follow-on ‘lone wolf’ attacks in the West.

79
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:11:15am

re: #74 A Mom Anon

I never said it was a planted passport.

Well, how should one interpret this then?

2) How would a passport survive a suicide bombing? and 3) Ain’t it kinda funny that this is supposedly the passport of a Syrian refugee?

If 2 alone might be compatible with “it belonged to someone else nearby”, together with 3 (as well as “that’s just a little too neat and tidy for me”), which points to an allegedly too convenient coincidence of it being a Syrian passport, seems to preclude such an interpretation, because on 3 finding someone else’s passport by pure (un)luck is still too neat and kinda funny, no?

If I read you wrong, it is only because you wrote it this way.

80
Dark_Falcon  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:12:45am

re: #75 Nyet

There is a certain “political truth” to that message… but it is ambiguous enough to be used by conspiracy theorists who literally believe that ISIS is a CIA creation.

That’s most of my point. The rest of the point is that the meme obscures the local culpability for the rise of ISIS. This group is an Arab creation, not a Western one, and its supporters need to bear their share of the blame.

81
SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:16:46am

re: #78 Dark_Falcon

The terrorists need an enemy. They aren’t going to win hearts and minds with their vision.

82
lawhawk  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:17:43am

re: #77 Doofus

I am a once proud owner of a VW TDI affected by an emissions scandal. I just received a letter from VW offering me a $500 VISA card and and $500 credit to use at VW dealership while they try to “fix” the problem. By my math they just coughed up $500,000,000. It’s a good start.

The $500 credit is actually worth a fraction of what the resale value hit on all those cars is worth. It’s barely a dent in the cost hit to each and every VW TDI owner out there. It’s pretty much ruined the resale value of all those cars since none of them will actually meet current emissions rules in any state in the US. Sure, some people might not care about the emissions on their cars, but if you’ve lost thousands on potential value, that’s not mollified by a $500 cash card and $500 credit towards the purchase of another VW.

VW has set aside $7.2 billion to cover the recall on nearly 11 million vehicles. And that doesn’t begin to assess the fraud and other criminality involved. People should go to prison over this. Endangering the public (a focal point of emissions control is to reduce pollutants that can actually harm people through prolonged exposure).

83
GlutenFreeJesus  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:24:14am

re: #80 Dark_Falcon

ISIS was created by Iraqis as a direct result of our invasion of Iraq and Paul Bremer’s de-Ba’athification and disbandment of the Iraqi military. The biggest blunder of the whole mess.

ISIS is a direct example of our actions.

84
Doofus  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:24:37am

re: #60 A Mom Anon

If you are going to blow up and be a martyr for your cause, wouldn’t you want everyone to know who you are?

85
Alephnaught  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:24:39am

I’d urge caution on the Syrian passport story, as we don’t know if it’s from an attacker or bystander. For example, there was an Egyptian passport found, but it turned out to be from one of the victims. There’s more discussion of the issue here.

86
lawhawk  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:25:35am

Seal the borders they say. Refuse to take in the refugees they say.

Those who refuse to remember their history will repeat it - I say.

Do they not remember the St. Louis? Take a major economic disruption (the Great Depression), combine with xenophobia, anti Semitism, and you’ve got a recipe for dooming people fleeing violence.

The parallels are striking - refugees fleeing IS and Assad from Syria and Iraq aren’t all terrorists - they’re fleeing the very violence that IS and Assad are imposing on them. Is it possible that some terrorists are using the refugees as cover to get into other countries? Yes, it is plausible and possible, but that shouldn’t be used to prevent the refugees from being allowed entry.

The more we help the refugees, the more likely we are to convince them that we are helping the situation; something IS wants dearly to prevent. IS needs to radicalize others to their cause, and if you get disaffected people, they might turn to IS, just as they turned to AQ before them. It’s a survival mechanism for some, hoping to just outlast the violence and survive by being on the “winning side.”

Note too that the IS areas of control and influence are the same rat lines that AQ and the insurgency used throughout the Iraq war. That’s not a mere coincidence. They’re relying on much the same disaffection and supply routes to maintain their power and control over that region.

A weak Iraqi central government hasn’t helped matters, as well as a military that isn’t up to snuff even after years of American training/support.

87
Doofus  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:26:02am

re: #68 A Mom Anon

You are not an idiot :)

88
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:26:26am

re: #85 Alephnaught

I’d urge caution the Syrian passport story, as we don’t know if it’s from an attacked or bystander. For example, there was an Egyptian passport found, but it turned out to be from one of the victims. There’s more discussion of the issue here.

Yep, could easily be.
If the suggestion of fakery is true tho, most plausibly it belonged to the guy, but we would still not know his identity, obviously.

89
PhillyPretzel  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:30:10am

re: #68 A Mom Anon

re: #87 Doofus

I agree. You are not an idiot. We all have subjects that we do not understand and cannot wrap our minds around it.

90
Dark_Falcon  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:31:55am

re: #83 GlutenFreeJesus

No, that was an indirect result. The removal of the Baath and subsequent great power for Iraqi Shia would have caused Sunni terrorism no matter how well it was done. The real problem has always been Iraqi Sunnis having a bad attitude.

91
GlutenFreeJesus  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:37:04am

re: #90 Dark_Falcon

No, that was an indirect result. The removal of the Baath and subsequent great power for Iraqi Shia would have caused Sunni terrorism no matter how well it was done. The real problem has always been Iraqi Sunnis having a bad attitude.

No. It’s a direct result of what we did. ISIS came to be from ex Iraqi military. We came in and disbanded them. Thousands upon thousands of bitter, highly trained military personnel suddenly out of jobs. That’s exactly how it all began. A direct result of what we did to Iraq.

That link Charles posted in the previous thread (I think) explains it all quite succinctly.

92
Dr Lizardo  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:40:27am

re: #90 Dark_Falcon

No, that was an indirect result. The removal of the Baath and subsequent great power for Iraqi Shia would have caused Sunni terrorism no matter how well it was done. The real problem has always been Iraqi Sunnis having a bad attitude.

You could look at it this way as well; the Sunnis in Iraq were basically a privileged group and the Shi’a were quite blatantly persecuted under Saddam Hussein’s regime (even though the Ba’athist’s were ostensibly secular). Once that fulcrum of power in Iraq shifted from the Sunnis to the Shi’a, and the Sunni felt that their privilege was being taken away from them, they revolted. And Da’esh is both a product and a beneficiary of that revolt.

93
Barefoot Grin  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:45:45am

Yes, GWB helped create the conditions for the creation of ISIS, but if assigning blame, there is a lot to go around. Assad, who apparently is now blaming France for the attacks, created the chaos in which radicals thrive in his own country by attacking his own people. And while the official position in KSA and Qatar and other Gulf states may be anti-ISIS, privately there is no lack of support.

94
darthstar  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:46:03am

re: #56 Brian J.

PPP did an instant poll of the Democratic debate last night. Clinton was their choice as the winner 67-20-7, winning according to a majority of every demographic.

[Embedded content]

Pre-screened Democratic voters who were going to watch the debate.

95
Dark_Falcon  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:46:52am

re: #92 Dr Lizardo

You could look at it this way as well; the Sunnis in Iraq were basically a privileged group and the Shi’a were quite blatantly persecuted under Saddam Hussein’s regime (even though the Ba’athist’s were ostensibly secular). Once that fulcrum of power in Iraq shifted from the Sunnis to the Shi’a, and the Sunni felt that their privilege was being taken away from them, they revolted. And Da’esh is both a product and a beneficiary of that revolt.

That is the right way to look at it.

96
darthstar  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:48:04am

re: #73 Dark_Falcon

No, it was a group of hate-filled Radical Islamists who created ISIS, not George W. Bush or Dick Cheney.

You can argue that Operation: IRAQI FREEDOM created the conditions for ISIS to exist, but that is not, repeat not the same as the creation of the group. As such that meme is slanderous and is downdinged accordingly.

You can play semantics all you want, but Bush & Cheney sired that little monster with their own dicks.

97
Doofus  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:50:54am

re: #96 darthstar

and let us not forget 9-11 as well.

98
Dark_Falcon  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:51:51am

re: #97 Doofus

and let us not forget 9-11 as well.

What?

99
Feline Fearless Leader  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:51:53am

re: #92 Dr Lizardo

You could look at it this way as well; the Sunnis in Iraq were basically a privileged group and the Shi’a were quite blatantly persecuted under Saddam Hussein’s regime (even though the Ba’athist’s were ostensibly secular). Once that fulcrum of power in Iraq shifted from the Sunnis to the Shi’a, and the Sunni felt that their privilege was being taken away from them, they revolted. And Da’esh is both a product and a beneficiary of that revolt.

And we’re not above that sort of behavior. Look at the minor disturbance that resulted from a power elite feeling the fulcrum starting to shift after the 1860 election.

100
Dr Lizardo  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:56:01am

re: #99 Feline Fearless Leader

And we’re not above that sort of behavior. Look at the minor disturbance that resulted from a power elite feeling the fulcrum starting to shift after the 1860 election.

Unfortunately, I can see that happening again. Whenever a power elite feels threatened by a perceived loss of power, they often react violently and lash out. That’s when the shit usually hits the fan.

101
Doofus  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:56:14am

re: #98 Dark_Falcon

Foghorn Leghorn

102
darthstar  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:56:37am

re: #97 Doofus

and let us not forget 9-11 as well.

They didn’t make 9/11 happen…but they let it(

103
darthstar  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:57:23am

re: #102 darthstar

They didn’t make 9/11 happen…but they let it(

Crap…accidentally hit post.

They let it through indifference and incompetence…not intent (I hope).

104
darthstar  Nov 15, 2015 • 6:59:41am
106
darthstar  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:02:50am

Attn: Dark_Falcon - Rubio’s flailing…time for you to get behind plan b:

107
Dark_Falcon  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:07:46am

re: #106 darthstar

Fuck off.

108
Brian J.  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:10:04am

re: #106 darthstar

Attn: Dark_Falcon - Rubio’s flailing…time for you to get behind plan b:

[Embedded content]

Famously, Hillary started her political career as a Goldwater Girl.

Beating Ted Cross* like Goldwater would bring it full circle.

*Why only anglicize half your name, Rafael?

109
Lidane  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:10:25am

NFL reporter:

*facepalm*

110
darthstar  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:15:12am

re: #107 Dark_Falcon

Fuck off.

Oh, dear…did I hit a nerve? In another three months they’ll spin him as the establishment candidate and you’ll find him much more palatable.

Though the draft Romney rumors are stirring again…that’s gotta give you wood.

111
Dark_Falcon  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:18:02am

re: #110 darthstar

Oh, dear…did I hit a nerve? In another three months they’ll spin him as the establishment candidate and you’ll find him much more palatable.

Though the draft Romney rumors are stirring again…that’s gotta give you wood.

You are truly obsessed with the penis.

112
PhillyPretzel  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:19:27am

re: #109 Lidane

They do not know “La Marseillaise.” Maybe they should watch “Casablanca” so they can learn it. en.wikipedia.org

113
Barefoot Grin  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:20:44am

re: #109 Lidane

Oh, lord.

114
darthstar  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:20:57am

re: #111 Dark_Falcon

You are truly obsessed with the penis.

As an aside, the moment was right this morning, and I was ready! 51 and I still got it. Screw the Cialis.

115
Dark_Falcon  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:21:54am

re: #109 Lidane

NFL reporter:

[Embedded content]

*facepalm*

1. Forget it, Lidane, it’s the Redskins.

2. You couldn’t have someone sing the Marseillaise before an NFL game, because some the fans would start booing loudly and throwing things.

116
Feline Fearless Leader  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:22:32am

re: #115 Dark_Falcon

1. Forget it, Lidane, it’s the Redskins.

2. You couldn’t have someone sing the Marseillaise before an NFL game, because some the fans would start booing loudly and throwing things.

Some of them do that regardless of what song you play.

117
Barefoot Grin  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:23:23am

re: #116 Feline Fearless Leader

Some of them do that regardless of what song you play.

Philadelphia—Santa Claus.

118
Dark_Falcon  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:24:19am

re: #116 Feline Fearless Leader

Some of them do that regardless of what song you play.

Yeah I know you live in Philly. But most of us only have to suffer Eagles fans when the Eagles come to town for a game, whereas for you its every game. :D

119
PhillyPretzel  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:24:32am

re: #116 Feline Fearless Leader

The “boo birds” still so that. Even when Judge Seamus had Eagles Court in the stadium.

120
PhillyPretzel  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:25:57am

re: #118 Dark_Falcon

I do not have to suffer. I do not watch Eagles games. Downton Abbey is much better. :)

121
b.d.  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:27:43am

re: #109 Lidane

NFL reporter:

[Embedded content]

*facepalm*

I’ve about had it with the NFL serving as our national outlet for caring. Breast Cancer awareness by wearing pink socks? Caring about our veterans by wearing cammo merchandised teamwear? Now our nation will show our solidarity with France by mentioning them before the game?

But we don’t dare kick that wife beater out of the league….

What phony BS, fits our culture perfectly

122
Dark_Falcon  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:31:21am

and if the Redskins and what they’re doing today offend you, just root for Drew Brees to lead the Saints to 5-5 by clobbering Washington.

123
Feline Fearless Leader  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:31:52am

re: #118 Dark_Falcon

Yeah I know you live in Philly. But most of us only have to suffer Eagles fans when the Eagles come to town for a game, whereas for you its every game. :D

Well, I’m not a native and am actually a Pittsburgh team fan much more than a Philadelphia team fan. Only Eagles games I’ve been to was one back in 2006 or so.

Philadelphia has its charms and attractions though. Their psychotic sports fans are a mixed one. Continual optimism mixed with a serious inferiority complex (generally regarding NYC teams) that expresses itself in odd ways at times.

124
darthstar  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:32:52am
125
b.d.  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:34:13am

re: #124 darthstar

[Embedded content]

In today’s episode of there is no way that this doesn’t sink the Trump campaign…

126
darthstar  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:34:14am

re: #120 PhillyPretzel

I do not have to suffer. I do not watch Eagles games. Downton Abbey is much better. :)

I stopped watching Downton Abbey after they killed off the dog (Isis) as a plot device.

127
darthstar  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:34:42am

re: #125 b.d.

In today’s episode of there is no way that this doesn’t sink the Trump campaign…

That cork will sink!

128
PhillyPretzel  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:35:56am

re: #126 darthstar

I understand. Killing the dog (Isis) only confirmed that the series will be ending. Season 6 will be the last one and I am going to miss it.

129
Dark_Falcon  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:36:34am

re: #123 Feline Fearless Leader

Well, I’m not a native and am actually a Pittsburgh team fan much more than a Philadelphia team fan. Only Eagles games I’ve been to was one back in 2006 or so.

Philadelphia has its charms and attractions though. Their psychotic sports fans are a mixed one. Continual optimism mixed with a serious inferiority complex (generally regarding NYC teams) that expresses itself in odd ways at times.

Well the complex makes sense this year since the Mets went to the World Series while the Philles were the worst team in the National League.

Then there’s Flyers, who play hockey like a bunch of psychos at times.

130
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:37:05am

re: #107 Dark_Falcon

The difference between R and D voters:

Ds have a difficulty choosing between decent candidates.
Rs have a difficulty finding a single decent candidate.

131
lawhawk  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:37:08am

re: #125 b.d.

In today’s episode of there is no way that this doesn’t sink the Trump campaign…

Ha. He’ll see another bounce in the polls. Just you watch. And that speaks more about his opponents and the state of the GOP than it does Trump himself.

This is a party that lives and thrives on lies, smears, and innuendo. The past 6+ years have seen an intensification of this.

132
darthstar  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:38:08am

Hillary blaming her 9/11 remark on some twitter user

133
Camacho DeezNuts 2016  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:38:27am

Have we reached the Trumpularity yet? I was hoping it would ride out another 6 months before we get the Establishment Candidate.

134
darthstar  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:41:14am

re: #133 Camacho DeezNuts 2016

Have we reached the Trumpularity yet? I was hoping it would ride out another 6 months before we get the Establishment Candidate.

Any moment now…all the pundits swear he’ll spontaneously combust before he does real damage…

135
Camacho DeezNuts 2016  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:41:21am

Mom calls him “Trumpet”

Bless her.

136
lawhawk  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:41:45am

re: #133 Camacho DeezNuts 2016

GOP may well lose the WH in 2016, but I fear that they will continue to pick up seats in Congress, the Senate, and state/local races.

Democrats have to turn this around, because far too many rights are threatened by this GOP as it is currently constituted. They want to roll back rights people take for granted, and will not be satisified until the safety net is demolished, ACA is repealed, birth control and abortion outlawed, etc.

137
Dark_Falcon  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:42:20am

re: #124 darthstar

Very foolish, Mrs. Parker. Not only might you draw Trump’s ire and cause him to sic his Gamegate Flying Monkeys on you, but you also called Ben Carson low-IQ stupid, which he clearly is not.

Note: Ben Carson is at times willfully stupid in his beliefs or actions, but he cannot be honestly called a ‘retard’. People with low IQs don’t become neurosurgeons.

138
Camacho DeezNuts 2016  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:42:42am

re: #134 darthstar

Any moment now…all the pundits swear he’ll spontaneously combust before he does real damage…

139
darthstar  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:43:49am

re: #130 Nyet

The difference between R and D voters:

Ds have a difficulty choosing between decent candidates.
Rs have a difficulty finding a single decent candidate.

It’s the platform. You can’t be anti-gay, anti-choice, anti-environment, anti-brown people, anti-immigration and anti-working class and call yourself a big tent party. And anyone you field who adheres to your platform looks like a fucking political idiot in the cold light of day.

140
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:44:22am

re: #138 Camacho DeezNuts 2016

Coulter is faux-optimistic. But if this happens again, in October, all bets are off.

141
darthstar  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:45:03am

re: #137 Dark_Falcon

Very foolish, Mrs. Parker. Not only might you draw Trump’s ire and cause him to sic his Gamegate Flying Monkeys on you, but you also called Ben Carson low-IQ stupid, which he clearly is not.

Note: Ben Carson is at times willfully stupid in his beliefs or actions, but he cannot be honestly called a ‘retard’. People with low IQs don’t become neurosurgeons.

I’d call him a political retard but I can see you admire him…so it isn’t Cruz you pine for after all…interesting. Okay…break in the rain. Time to take the boys to the beach.

142
HappyWarrior  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:45:32am

re: #139 darthstar

It’s the platform. You can’t be anti-gay, anti-choice, anti-environment, anti-brown people, anti-immigration and anti-working class and call yourself a big tent party. And anyone you field who adheres to your platform looks like a fucking political idiot in the cold light of day.

Exactly.

143
PhillyPretzel  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:45:51am

re: #138 Camacho DeezNuts 2016

re: #140 Nyet

Coulter should inhale the smoke from her cigarette twice and exhale once.

144
Dark_Falcon  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:46:00am

re: #141 darthstar

I don’t pine for Ben Carson, but only a fool calls someone that which they clearly are not.

145
HappyWarrior  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:46:41am

re: #137 Dark_Falcon

Very foolish, Mrs. Parker. Not only might you draw Trump’s ire and cause him to sic his Gamegate Flying Monkeys on you, but you also called Ben Carson low-IQ stupid, which he clearly is not.

Note: Ben Carson is at times willfully stupid in his beliefs or actions, but he cannot be honestly called a ‘retard’. People with low IQs don’t become neurosurgeons.

I don’t think she gives a shit. Trump deserves all the omcking he gets as does Carson. Maybe Carson isn’t low IQ stupid but he’s shown himself to be extremely ignorant on all matters not related to his neurosurgeon profession.

146
jaunte  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:47:32am
147
Dark_Falcon  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:47:58am

re: #145 HappyWarrior

I don’t think she gives a shit. Trump deserves all the omcking he gets as does Carson. Maybe Carson isn’t low IQ stupid but he’s shown himself to be extremely ignorant on all matters not related to his neurosurgeon profession.

Which is why I say Carson often demonstrates willful stupidity.

148
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:48:30am

War is simple - to start.

149
HappyWarrior  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:49:35am

re: #147 Dark_Falcon

Which is why I say Carson often demonstrates willful stupidity.

Which frankly is many ways worse than simply not knowing something. I honestly hink though he’s greatly misinformed and spreading ignorance. Not a guy I want anywhere near any elected office let alone the presidency.

150
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:53:01am

Parker never called Carson a “retard”. Quite the opposite:

Trump couldn’t suggest that the retired pediatric neurosurgeon is dumb, so he turned the insult on Carson’s supporters.

And yes, she played with the Gump reference, but the slogan she cited was created by Carson’s fans.

151
Dark_Falcon  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:53:10am

re: #146 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Everything is very simple in war, but the simplest thing is difficult. These difficulties accumulate and produce a friction, which no man can imagine exactly who has not seen war.

Carl von Clausewitz, On War

152
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:53:29am

re: #149 HappyWarrior

Which frankly is many ways worse than simply not knowing something. I honestly hink though he’s greatly misinformed and spreading ignorance. Not a guy I want anywhere near any elected office let alone the presidency.

Or your brain.

153
HappyWarrior  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:54:26am

re: #152 Nyet

Or your brain.

Yep.

154
Dark_Falcon  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:55:06am

re: #149 HappyWarrior

Which frankly is many ways worse than simply not knowing something. I honestly hink though he’s greatly misinformed and spreading ignorance. Not a guy I want anywhere near any elected office let alone the presidency.

Concur.

155
Romantic Heretic  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:55:39am

re: #27 Nyet

Going to war with a non-state - like ISIS - is problematic in itself. When you broaden it to the whole of radical Islam, it gets even less realistic.

You can no more go to war with radical Islam than you can nail jelly to a wall.

Sure, it would be nice to get rid of radical Islam, radical Christianity, radical Judaism, radical Buddhism, radical Shamanism and so on. You just can’t do it through “war”. Look at “war on drugs”.

Yeah, but that’s so boring, and we have to be nice to people we don’t like.

Now firearms and explosives. That’s fun!

/////

156
jaunte  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:59:04am
157
Great White Snark  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:59:19am

A reminder of what we must not do as emotions run away in the face of attacks.

littlegreenfootballs.com

158
Targetpractice  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:59:24am

re: #146 jaunte

[Embedded content]

War…war never changes.

159
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 7:59:49am

re: #156 jaunte

The better question is, why they are allowed to tweet.

160
jaunte  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:00:09am

404 ISIS supporters in the US.

161
jaunte  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:00:42am

“Claimed” locations.

162
Feline Fearless Leader  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:01:05am

re: #147 Dark_Falcon

Which is why I say Carson often demonstrates willful stupidity.

Which is more dangerous than knowing and admitting ignorance since the latter can be fixed by taking the time to educate yourself or using a properly trained adviser.

My brother always said that any US President who slept well at night was someone he did not want in the office since they were too sure of themselves and the consequences and their actions (or inactions).

163
Dr Lizardo  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:01:12am

Well, some good news - hopefully:

Seventeen nations, spurred on by Friday’s deadly attacks in Paris, overcame their differences on how to end Syria’s civil war and adopted a timeline that will let opposition groups help draft a constitution and elect a new government by 2017.

As a first step, the United Nations agreed to convene Syria’s government with opposition representatives by Jan. 1, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry and Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Saturday at a joint press conference in Vienna. A cease-fire between the government in Damascus and recognized opposition groups should be in place within six months, according to their statement.

The timeline is:

1 Month, or, by Dec. 14: Diplomats will reconvene to review progress
Jan. 1: UN will seek to convene Syrian government and opposition in formal negotiations
6 Months, or, by May 14, 2016: Cease-fire between Syrian government and opposition groups; process for drafting new constitution
18 Months, or, by May 14, 2017: Free elections administered by the UN held under the new constitution

bloomberg.com

Diplomacy may not provide the eye-candy of JDAMs making their way to their targets. But the results are usually better for all concerned. Let’s keep our fingers crossed and hope this works.

164
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:02:34am

re: #161 jaunte

Plus how many are bots?

165
PhillyPretzel  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:02:54am

re: #146 jaunte

re: #151 Dark_Falcon

One of my favorite Sun Tzu Quotes: In peace prepare for war, in war prepare for peace. The art of war is of vital importance to the state. It is a matter of life or death, a road to either safety or to ruin. Hence under no circumstances can it be neglected.

166
Feline Fearless Leader  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:02:58am

re: #158 Targetpractice

War…war never changes.

But we keep developing better tools for making it more efficient… at least in the killing and destruction part.

167
HappyWarrior  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:03:20am

re: #162 Feline Fearless Leader

Which is more dangerous than knowing and admitting ignorance since the latter can be fixed by taking the time to educate yourself or using a properly trained adviser.

My brother always said that any US President who slept well at night was someone he did not want in the office since they were too sure of themselves and the consequences and their actions (or inactions).

Exactly. I actually think a writer at Red State got at waht Carson’s problem is. He’s capable of educating himself but chooses not to. And that’s dangerous. I like your brother’s take too.

168
jaunte  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:03:38am
169
Feline Fearless Leader  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:04:19am

re: #167 HappyWarrior

Exactly. I actually think a writer at Red State got at waht Carson’s problem is. He’s capable of educating himself but chooses not to. And that’s dangerous. I like your brother’s take too.

One thing to notice is how the office ages the holder. That’s an indication.

170
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:05:31am

re: #168 jaunte

Putin is using the crisis for all it’s worth.

171
PhillyPretzel  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:06:09am

re: #168 jaunte

Let us hope that something good comes from it.

172
Dark_Falcon  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:07:43am

re: #163 Dr Lizardo

Well, some good news - hopefully:

The timeline is:

bloomberg.com

Diplomacy may not provide the eye-candy of JDAMs making their way to their targets. But the results are usually better for all concerned. Let’s keep our fingers crossed and hope this works.

how those groups break their ties with the Al-Nursa front will be interesting.

173
HappyWarrior  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:08:57am

re: #169 Feline Fearless Leader

One thing to notice is how the office ages the holder. That’s an indication.

YEah the before and after photos are stunning. Interesting bit but exempting Reagan all the presidents who lived over 90- John Adams, Herbert Hoover, Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, and George H.W Bush were one term presidents(and yes I know Ford inheirited the last two years and change of Nixon’s term). I honestly don’t see that as a coincidence.

174
Dark_Falcon  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:12:04am

re: #170 Nyet

Putin is using the crisis for all it’s worth.

Any smart head of state would. When there is the kind of shock to people’s systems that the Paris attacks supplied, doors that are normally locked open up a crack. And in those few moments those doors are slightly open, a bold leader will try to open one of the doors fully and go through it.

175
Mattand  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:15:20am

I thought the Lizardoids here would get a kick out of this: Charles Koch refers to himself as a “classical liberal”.

Memories…

176
makeitstop  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:18:17am

re: #175 Mattand

I thought the Lizardoids here would get a kick out of this: Charles Koch refers to himself as a “classical liberal”.

Memories…

I wonder how he feels about Occupy or pepper spray.

/

177
Dark_Falcon  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:18:24am

re: #175 Mattand

I thought the Lizardoids here would get a kick out of this: Charles Koch refers to himself as a “classical liberal”.

Memories…

He means that in the Adam Smith sense.

178
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:18:33am

re: #47 Nyet

I think the Islamist mass murder in Paris won’t be a huge factor in the election that is still more than a year away. It always seems so in the first days, but then people cool off and forget.

That’s not the problem. The problem is what happens if shit hits the fan very close to the election day.

The prospect of a Trump presidency is all too real, contrary to what complacent optimists think. And if not Trump, then Carson, who is arguably worse.

The fact that these guys are being taken seriously as Presidential candidates is disturbing enough.

179
Great White Snark  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:18:44am

re: #35 darthstar

[Embedded content]

As if Arab Spring was a Bush program, and our troops invaded Tunisia. . As if Iraq had strong multi cultural policies and Asaad was not a tyrant. What a load of crap.

180
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:20:24am

re: #73 Dark_Falcon

No, it was a group of hate-filled Radical Islamists who created ISIS, not George W. Bush or Dick Cheney.

You can argue that Operation: IRAQI FREEDOM created the conditions for ISIS to exist, but that is not, repeat not the same as the creation of the group. As such that meme is slanderous and is downdinged accordingly.

International politics is too complex to be conveyed in the form of an Internet meme. Which is why I ignore Twitter posts on the topic.

Twitter is for telling us what you had for dinner, or who you are hanging out with and where. Anything else requires whole paragraphs to express the nuances and and subtleties.

181
Pawn of the Oppressor  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:20:35am

It’s an ugly thought but I think a miserable Soviet Style Syrian Republic run as a Putin client state would be preferable to the current state of affairs in Syria.

I’m glad all the big kids are at the table now to do something serious about the situation. The next tactical response would be to pointedly kill Isis’s leadership anyway, which I’m sure neither the Russians nor Assad would mind too much.

182
Camacho DeezNuts 2016  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:21:00am

re: #176 makeitstop

I wonder how he feels about Occupy or pepper spray.

/

Haha, Bam. Beat me to it.

183
ObserverArt  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:21:18am

Putin just wants to feel needed. And right now he sees an opportunity. What a good time for an opportunist.

What will his price be? The state he finds himself and his country he will be trying to get everything he can.

184
ObserverArt  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:22:58am

re: #176 makeitstop

I wonder how he feels about Occupy or pepper spray.

/

And drum lines.

You can never forget drum lines. I think for some people the drum lines were the worst!

185
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:23:18am

re: #138 Camacho DeezNuts 2016

Coulter after Paris attacks: ‘Trump was elected president tonight’ ]

ISISs Secret Plan to Destroy America:

Plan several terrorist attacks on eve of major GOP Primaries and then general election.

Result: Trump is elected President.

The rest needs to further explanation …

186
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:23:29am

re: #179 Great White Snark

As if Arab Spring was a Bush program, and our troops invaded Tunisia. . As if Iraq had strong multi cultural policies and Asaad was not a tyrant. What a load of crap.

Squirm all you want. If those pilonidal cysts Bush and Cheney hadn’t invaded Iraq after we were attacked by 19 Saudis and one Egyptian, at the behest of a highly-placed Saudi fanatic, ISIS wouldn’t exist today. They built that.

187
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:24:17am

re: #183 ObserverArt

Putin just wants to feel needed. And right now he sees an opportunity. What a good time for an opportunist.

What will his price be? The state he finds himself and his country he will be trying to get everything he can.

Lifting of the sanctions, recognition of the Russian Crimea. For starters.

I hope Obama does not bite.

188
Dr Lizardo  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:24:55am

re: #181 Pawn of the Oppressor

It’s an ugly thought but I think a miserable Soviet Style Syrian Republic run as a Putin client state would be preferable to the current state of affairs in Syria.

I’m glad all the big kids are at the table now to do something serious about the situation. The next tactical response would be to pointedly kill Isis’s leadership anyway, which I’m sure neither the Russians nor Assad would mind too much.

No one will miss Da’esh aside from their deluded death-worshipping followers.

One of my students asked me a good question; “Let’s say ISIS is defeated in short order. Cool - glad to see it. But what about their followers? Don’t forget that quite a few of them are European citizens. And in the wake of ISIS’ defeat, they’re going to come back home. And I bet more than a few of them are going to want revenge. What do we do?”

Personally, if I ran the EU, I wouldn’t let them back in. It’d be a matter of ‘too bad, so sad, bye bye’. But that’s just me.

189
Great White Snark  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:26:05am

re: #186 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Squirm all you want. If those pilonidal cysts Bush and Cheney hadn’t invaded Iraq after we were attacked by 19 Saudis and one Egyptian, at the behest of a highly-placed Saudi fanatic, ISIS wouldn’t exist today. They built that.

Blaming Bush gets a whole lot of people like ME heads of state in Iraq and Syria and elsewhere off the hook for self inflicted wounds and just so happens to play really well on the far far left for 2016. This will be a persistent fiction for decades as it also serves to divert attention from honest mistakes from the Obama admin. And the next admin.

190
ObserverArt  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:26:33am

re: #187 Nyet

Lifting of the sanctions, recognition of the Russian Crimea. For starters.

I hope Obama does not bite.

I’d say that is a good start.

191
Lidane  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:28:22am

It’s Sunday, so here’s Marco Rubio being a dumbass:

Senator Marco Rubio, arguing that the United States is “at war with radical Islam,” sharply criticized Hillary Rodham Clinton for declining to characterize the perpetrators of the Paris attacks in that way, invoking Nazi Germany to make his point.

“That would be like saying we weren’t at war with Nazis, because we were afraid to offend some Germans who may have been members of the Nazi Party but weren’t violent themselves,” Mr. Rubio said Sunday on ABC’s “This Week.”

*facepalm*

192
Camacho DeezNuts 2016  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:29:33am

‘Would you become a Time Lord and slut shame Hitler’s mom into not drinking that riesling?’

193
makeitstop  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:29:42am

re: #180 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

International politics is too complex to be conveyed in the form of an Internet meme. Which is why I ignore Twitter posts on the topic.

Twitter is for telling us what you had for dinner, or who you are hanging out with and where. Anything else requires whole paragraphs to express the nuances and and subtleties.

I commented yesterday about a Facebook friend who wrote that it was time to ‘team up with Putin’ and start slaughtering people, and I added the comment that IS uses people’s fear as a recruitment tool. My friend replied with ‘Well what’s your solution? You know this is going to continue to happen all over the world.’

I replied that posting half-assed ‘solutions’ to very complex problems on Facebook was a waste of time, and that any move the government makes could end up being catastrophic. Then I logged off FB and plan to stay off it for a while.

But I’m left to wonder - how the hell did we end up responsible for making the entire world safe from terrorism?

194
Targetpractice  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:29:59am

re: #191 Lidane

It’s Sunday, so here’s Marco Rubio being a dumbass:

[Embedded content]

*facepalm*

That’s the GOP, working the Godwin card so hard you could use it as toilet paper due to its thinness.

195
HappyWarrior  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:30:03am

re: #191 Lidane

It’s Sunday, so here’s Marco Rubio being a dumbass:

[Embedded content]

*facepalm*

He’s a hack. Really why the hell does the label matter so much to these dweebs? Clinton knows what we’re up against and was aware of it when Maroc was my age.

196
makeitstop  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:31:16am

re: #184 ObserverArt

And drum lines.

You can never forget drum lines. I think for some people the drum lines were the worst!

Drum lines, or drum circles?

197
Feline Fearless Leader  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:31:17am

re: #185 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

ISISs Secret Plan to Destroy America:

Plan several terrorist attacks on eve of major GOP Primaries and then general election.

Result: Trump is elected President.

The rest needs to further explanation …

Will the movie be called “The Syrian Candidate”?

198
jaunte  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:31:26am

re: #195 HappyWarrior

If she had said we were at war with radical Islam, he would be complaining that she hadn’t said we were at “total war” with radical Islam.

199
Targetpractice  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:31:43am

re: #195 HappyWarrior

He’s a hack. Really why the hell does the label matter so much to these dweebs? Clinton knows what we’re up against and was aware of it when Maroc was my age.

Because it’s what they consider the acceptable alternative to what their base really wants them to say, which is that we’re at war with all of Islam. With all the negative connotations that such a belief carries with it.

200
Great White Snark  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:31:56am

It’s just not a viable assumption all would be well in the ME if we had not invaded
Iraq. Saddam could have fallen just like Qaddafi.

201
HappyWarrior  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:32:14am

re: #198 jaunte

If she had said we were at war with radical Islam, he would be complaining that she hadn’t said we were at “total war” with radical Islam.

Exactly he’s being a concern troll jackass here. And I hope if she ever debates his sorry ass, she points that out.

202
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:33:10am

re: #196 makeitstop

Drum lines, or drum circles?

We need a Master of the Killgore Lore.//

203
Feline Fearless Leader  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:33:58am

re: #189 Great White Snark

Blaming Bush gets a whole lot of people like ME heads of state in Iraq and Syria and elsewhere off the hook for self inflicted wounds and just so happens to play really well on the far far left for 2016. This will be a persistent fiction for decades as it also serves to divert attention from honest mistakes from the Obama admin. And the next admin.

I also question why the fault needs to be pinned on a single leader or event. These things do not happen in vacuums and chain together as various factors and actions coalesce into the shitshows that affect everyone negatively and keep the Middle East a hellhole for most of its residents.

204
Targetpractice  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:36:16am

The GOP can deny all they like that they’re saying we’re at war with Islam, but just a short walk through any of the sites their party’s base feels comfortable expressing themselves in will end that notion. Their base believes we’re at Islam, were screaming such Friday night, and they seriously believe that nothing short of “total war” with Islam will ensure safety for America. Any Republican trying to tell you that he’s not blaming all of Islam, just “the radicals” is lying out his ass.

205
ObserverArt  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:36:17am

Should the term “war” and phrase “at war with radical Islam” even be used?

Where are the declarations? Were are the uniformed armies? Can someone show me the front lines or where the enemy manufacturing and storage units are?

Thinking like everything is a classic war has been America’s failure how many times now?

Terrorism is more like policing to me. It takes study, investigation, special units etc.

The entire world needs to do a rethink of how they handle terrorism, but I don’t think the classic army is all that is needed. Sure, you may need some army, but you need a whole lot more.

206
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:37:24am

re: #205 ObserverArt

The czar of the war on radical Islam won’t be wearing a crown.//

207
ObserverArt  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:37:31am

re: #196 makeitstop

Drum lines, or drum circles?

Yeah…circles.

208
Great White Snark  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:38:20am

re: #203 Feline Fearless Leader

I also question why the fault needs to be pinned on a single leader or event. These things do not happen in vacuums and chain together as various factors and actions coalesce into the shitshows that affect everyone negatively and keep the Middle East a hellhole for most of its residents.

Agreed. I don’t object over partisanship or loyalty to anyone or anything but the actual course of events. Because memed up propaganda serves no good policy purpose. it angers the base and we all know how well that goes by now.

209
Dr Lizardo  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:39:13am

re: #200 Great White Snark

It’s just not a viable assumption all would be well in the ME if we had not invaded
Iraq. Saddam could have fallen just like Qaddafi.

There’s so many variable in the Middle East, it’s difficult to say.

Personally, I wouldn’t have invaded Iraq. But that’s me. But I can see an AT based on what you posted; the Arab Spring still happens, except in this AT, Saddam Hussein is still President of Iraq and is violently deposed, much as Qadaffi was in Libya, and his sons meet a similarly grisly fate.

What happens then? Most likely, the sectarian tensions that were present in Iraq explode to the surface and, like we’ve seen, chaos erupts across the country, thereby destabilizing neighboring countries.

In any event, had I been POTUS back in aftermath of 9/11, there would’ve been no invasion of Iraq. I just don’t see any strategic reason for it.

210
Camacho DeezNuts 2016  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:40:16am

Hillary won’t answer what she would do if Time Lord.

211
Feline Fearless Leader  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:41:30am

re: #205 ObserverArt

Should the term “war” and phrase “at war with radical Islam” even be used?

Where are the declarations? Were are the uniformed armies? Can someone show me the front lines or where the enemy manufacturing and storage units are?

Thinking like everything is a classic war has been America’s failure how many times now?

Terrorism is more like policing to me. It takes study, investigation, special units etc.

The entire world needs to do a rethink of how they handle terrorism, but I don’t think the classic army is all that is needed. Sure, you may need some army, but you need a whole lot more.

I get the impression that a lot of people want (and think) that Pax Americana and some sort of empire will settle all this. And also cement into place white supremicism and make them all millionaires to be waited on hand and foot as well. You know, the American Dream.

Which flies totally into the face of reality, or the economic (not to mention moral) costs of even beginning to try to implement it. But it sounds good to those who want simplistic solutions and sound bites.

212
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:42:36am

re: #210 Camacho DeezNuts 2016

Hillary won’t answer what she would do if Time Lord.

“Hillary laughed at the baby Hitler question. She’s weak!”

213
HappyWarrior  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:42:56am

re: #212 Nyet

“Hillary laughed at the baby Hitler question. She’s weak!”

hillary is Baby Hitler!

214
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:44:18am

re: #213 HappyWarrior

hillary is Baby Hitler!

Hitlery!

215
makeitstop  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:46:28am

re: #207 ObserverArt

Yeah…circles.

Yeah, drum lines are more like this, and they’re pretty awesome.

Top Secret Drum Corps - Edinburgh Military Tattoo 2012 - 720p HD

I think even our former ‘classical liberal’ would approve.

216
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:46:59am

Trump is a personage straight out of Tom Tomorrow’s cartoons.

217
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:48:35am

Also, a lot of the blame attaches to the other Bush for getting all verklemmt over Saddam crossing an imaginary line in the sand drawn at random by some faceless bureaucrat in the British Foreign Office in 1920. The Emir of Kuwait lost his made-up throne? Who gives a rat’s ass?

218
makeitstop  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:49:12am

re: #205 ObserverArt

Should the term “war” and phrase “at war with radical Islam” even be used?

Where are the declarations? Were are the uniformed armies? Can someone show me the front lines or where the enemy manufacturing and storage units are?

Thinking like everything is a classic war has been America’s failure how many times now?

Terrorism is more like policing to me. It takes study, investigation, special units etc.

The entire world needs to do a rethink of how they handle terrorism, but I don’t think the classic army is all that is needed. Sure, you may need some army, but you need a whole lot more.

To the armchair generals, anything that doesn’t play well on CNN is being weak on terrorism. It’s ‘Shock and Awe’ or nothing for them, because ‘splodey things on TV are teh awesome!

219
ObserverArt  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:49:19am

re: #214 Nyet

Hitlery!

You are evil!

(But then, you would know this)

220
Camacho DeezNuts 2016  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:50:48am

‘Ms Clinton, if you were Time Lord and could go back and kill Baby Hitler, would you?’

‘If I was Time Lord, I would open a family planning clinic in that small Bavarian village and give Hitler’s mom birth control pills and condoms.’

Crowd screams in shock and horror.

221
Feline Fearless Leader  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:52:27am

re: #217 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Also, a lot of the blame attaches to the other Bush for getting all verklemmt over Saddam crossing an imaginary line in the sand drawn at random by some faceless bureaucrat in the British Foreign Office in 1920. The Emir of Kuwait lost his made-up throne? Who gives a rat’s ass?

Taking territory by conquest went out of style in the international scene around roughly 1920. Seems that once they drew all those lines divvying up the world no one was allowed to go and mess with them without getting branded an aggressor and having the League of Nations sicced on you.

222
Camacho DeezNuts 2016  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:54:27am

Wife is giving me Side Eye cuz I keep blurting out TIME LORD around the house in a big booming slooow Satanic Overlord voice, but sometimes I speed up TIME and draw out LOOOOORD because it’s like TIME LORD shit.

She needs to deal.

223
ObserverArt  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:55:28am

re: #217 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Also, a lot of the blame attaches to the other Bush for getting all verklemmt over Saddam crossing an imaginary line in the sand drawn at random by some faceless bureaucrat in the British Foreign Office in 1920. The Emir of Kuwait lost his made-up throne? Who gives a rat’s ass?

I think we need to keep going back…back…back.

And then we may somewhere in the very very very long line of history find the point where the West pissed off the Middle East to the point they seemingly will never forget and forgive.

Or maybe it is the sum of all that history.

If anything, the more modern (Kuwait-up) American messing about in the ME has just pissed everyone off even more. We never seem to want to understand, we still want to control it.

Ah! I think I see the problem. Or at least a big part of it.

224
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:57:00am

re: #221 Feline Fearless Leader

Taking territory by conquest went out of style in the international scene around roughly 1920. Seems that once they drew all those lines divvying up the world no one was allowed to go and mess with them without getting branded an aggressor and having the League of Nations sicced on you.

The League of Nations did such a good job protecting Ethiopia and Manchuria….

225
Dark_Falcon  Nov 15, 2015 • 8:59:45am

re: #210 Camacho DeezNuts 2016

Hillary won’t answer what she would do if Time Lord.

She doesn’t want to offend the Daleks.

226
Eventual Carrion  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:02:34am

re: #193 makeitstop

I commented yesterday about a Facebook friend who wrote that it was time to ‘team up with Putin’ and start slaughtering people, and I added the comment that IS uses people’s fear as a recruitment tool. My friend replied with ‘Well what’s your solution? You know this is going to continue to happen all over the world.’

[snip]

My question to him would then be, “When hasn’t it?”.

Just over the last 50 years how many terror attacks have we seen? Small and large scale, localized and world viewed. Munich, Entebbe, PLO, first WTC attack, Beirut and so many more that didn’t even involve anyone from the US. This is not a new problem, just another infection.

227
Feline Fearless Leader  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:03:22am

re: #224 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

The League of Nations did such a good job protecting Ethiopia and Manchuria….

A few of the broken eggs on the way from WW1 to WW2.

And note that post-WW2 the United Nations was granted better teeth than the League of Nations regarding international aggression*. And that led to at least two coalition-based wars conflicts with the intention of preventing a nation rewriting the lines via occupation.

No wish to debate the effectiveness of the UN as a whole at this point. It has had its ups and downs, abuses, etc. like any other sort of organization. But it has also provided a platform for formal international cooperation.

* - A bit like replacing the weak Articles of Confederation with The Constitution since it was clear that a few parts were too weak to hold up in the long-term.

228
Lidane  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:08:44am

re: #225 Dark_Falcon

She doesn’t want to offend the Daleks.

Nah, that’s Huckabee. The Daleks are his donor base.

229
Dr Lizardo  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:09:04am

re: #226 Eventual Carrion

My question to him would then be, “When hasn’t it?”.

Just over the last 50 years how many terror attacks have we seen? Small and large scale, localized and world viewed. Munich, Entebbe, PLO, first WTC attack, Beirut and so many more that didn’t even involve anyone from the US. This is not a new problem, just another infection.

Yep. Hell, talk to Germans of a certain age, and they’ll share their memories of the Deutscher Herbst, when the Baader-Meinhof Gang was running around pulling shit. Or the Revolutionäre Zellen, which was arguably more dangerous than the RAF (Rote Armee Fraktion).

230
Teukka  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:10:18am

re: #229 Dr Lizardo

Yep. Hell, talk to Germans of a certain age, and they’ll share their memories of the Deutscher Herbst, when the Baader-Meinhof Gang was running around pulling shit. Or the Revolutionäre Zellen, which was arguably more dangerous than the RAF (Rote Armee Fraktion).

Didn’t East Germany lend support to both?

231
Dr Lizardo  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:13:02am

re: #230 Teukka

Didn’t East Germany lend support to both?

Yes, they did. When the DDR fell and the STASI files were opened up, sure enough, it showed the East Germans did a good deal of financing and other things for both groups.

232
Lidane  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:14:45am
233
Belafon  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:17:18am

re: #180 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

International politics is too complex to be conveyed in the form of an Internet meme. Which is why I ignore Twitter posts on the topic.

Twitter is for telling us what you had for dinner, or who you are hanging out with and where. Anything else requires whole paragraphs to express the nuances and and subtleties.

It’s also really good for “Hey, we’re being killed in here!”

234
Dr Lizardo  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:18:03am

re: #230 Teukka

Didn’t East Germany lend support to both?

I forgot to add, if you can find the book by Stefan Aust, Der Baader-Meinhof Komplex, read it. It’s outstanding and it’s available in an English translation if your German isn’t up to snuff. I consider it the definitive book on the RAF.

235
Great White Snark  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:22:25am

re: #217 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Also, a lot of the blame attaches to the other Bush for getting all verklemmt over Saddam crossing an imaginary line in the sand drawn at random by some faceless bureaucrat in the British Foreign Office in 1920. The Emir of Kuwait lost his made-up throne? Who gives a rat’s ass?

That would be me.

The Crimes of Saddam Hussein
By Dave Johns
1990 The Invasion of Kuwait
Charges and evidence
The Iraqi military allegedly committed crimes while in Kuwait. Evidence suggests that it tortured and killed hundreds of Kuwaiti nationals and people from other nations. Foreign hostages were taken, Kuwaiti properties were looted, and Iraqi forces set fire to more than 700 Kuwaiti oil wells and opened pipelines to let oil pour into the Gulf. In addition to these crimes, Saddam may be tried for the crime of aggression. An Iraqi law dating back to the 1950s prohibits the act of aggressive war against other Arab countries.

pbs.org

236
Belafon  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:25:13am

re: #217 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Also, a lot of the blame attaches to the other Bush for getting all verklemmt over Saddam crossing an imaginary line in the sand drawn at random by some faceless bureaucrat in the British Foreign Office in 1920. The Emir of Kuwait lost his made-up throne? Who gives a rat’s ass?

Because those imaginary lines are called countries. We live in one ourselves, that includes further imaginary lines called states.

The early 20th century creation of countries in the Middle East has really fucked things up, but that doesn’t mean allowing invasion is the answer.

237
Joe Bacon  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:25:17am

re: #143 PhillyPretzel

Coulter should inhale the smoke from her cigarette twice and exhale once.

Little Orphan Annie just needs to snort more cocaine.

238
KGxvi  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:28:49am

re: #235 Great White Snark

Not just that, there was plenty of evidence at the time that Hussien would have kept going beyond Kuwait.

Another angle to this is the fact that even though the borders are arbitrary and made up (really all borders are), they are part of the ground rules of international politics. When Army A crosses they line into Country B, that’s a violation of one of the basic rules.

239
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:29:49am

re: #235 Great White Snark

That would be me.

pbs.org

Nobody in the Reagan or Bush administrations gave a shit what an asshole Saddam Hussein was when they were arming him to the teeth to kill Iranians for them. I DO NOT WANT TO HEAR HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS USED AS AN EXCUSE FOR MILITARY ACTION BY ANY REPUBLICAN, EVER!!!!!!!

240
The Vicious Babushka  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:30:39am

Remember when all the wingnuts hated France?

241
Jay C  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:31:22am

re: #217 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Also, a lot of the blame attaches to the other Bush for getting all verklemmt over Saddam crossing an imaginary line in the sand drawn at random by some faceless bureaucrat in the British Foreign Office in 1920. The Emir of Kuwait lost his made-up throne? Who gives a rat’s ass?

Ummm… “made- up”??? Even if its present-day boundaries are somewhat arbitrary (it IS Arabia, after all) as a political entity, the Emirate of Kuwait is older than the US: being recognized as an independent polity since the mid-18th Century.

242
PhillyPretzel  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:32:16am

re: #240 The Vicious Babushka

Burger King still calls them by that name.

243
KGxvi  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:32:38am

re: #240 The Vicious Babushka

That’s about the time they started using the “cheese eating surrender monkeys” line from the Simpsons

244
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:34:59am

re: #241 Jay C

Ummm… “made- up”??? Even if its present-day boundaries are somewhat arbitrary (it IS Arabia, after all) as a political entity, the Emirate of Kuwait is older than the US: being recognized as an independent polity since the mid-18th Century.

Actually, Iraq is the arbitrary creation—a carved-off part of the Persian Empire created to sell oil cheaper. Once you’ve created it, though, Kuwait was a province of it.

245
Dr Lizardo  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:37:48am

OK, this is dark humor, but damn, it made me laugh.

i.imgur.com

246
Great White Snark  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:38:12am

re: #239 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Nobody in the Reagan or Bush administrations gave a shit what an asshole Saddam Hussein was when they were arming him to the teeth to kill Iranians for them. I DO NOT WANT TO HEAR HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS USED AS AN EXCUSE FOR MILITARY ACTION BY ANY REPUBLICAN, EVER!!!!!!!

I’d really not want to pretend that human rights and sovereign nations rights were just an excuse to invade Kuwait. Partisan anger is no excuse to fictionalize motives. Unless attacking ISIS with troops on the ground as well as bombs from the air will just be a fucking excuse too.

If it was just an excuse as you claim, please note the majority Dem congress that did not hesitate at all to agree with this alleged excuse.

Reflecting broad public support for the president’s Iraq policies, Rep. Dick Gephardt (D-Mo.), the majority leader, said, “Here at home, the sense of unity and the absence of widespread opposition to this action in the Persian Gulf testify to our powerful, instinctive feeling that this is a cause worth standing and fighting for.”
In early 1991, by a vote of 250-183, the House passed the Persian Gulf Resolution, authorizing Bush to use force against the Iraqi military. This soon led to a successful effort to expel the invaders from Kuwait — under the umbrella of a broad coalition based in Saudi Arabia that included Syrian and Egyptian forces.
Source: Historian, Clerk of the U.S. House

Read more: politico.com

247
Belafon  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:41:05am

re: #244 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Actually, Iraq is the arbitrary creation—a carved-off part of the Persian Empire created to sell oil cheaper. Once you’ve created it, though, Kuwait was a province of it.

Reading the brief history of Kuwait, not sure where you’re getting “province”. Kuwait’s been around since the 1600s. Kuwait’s had it’s own economy for centuries. You’re reasoning would be like saying Oklahoma is a province of Texas.

248
KGxvi  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:44:17am

re: #247 Belafon

Well, if you ask Texas, everything north of the rio grande, east of the Rockies and west of the Mississippi is a province of Texas.

249
Great White Snark  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:44:26am

Something has happened at the memorial in France. Shit. People fleeing in panic, hopefully a false alarm.

250
Mattand  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:44:53am

I’m starting to see the “Nuke Islam like we did Japan” meme pop up on my FB feed, from some of my friends who claim political independence.

Forget the fact that the fucking analogy falls on it’s face out of the gate, what with Islam not being a country. Supporting that stupid fucking photo means you’re coming out and saying “I want to drop a nuclear bomb on a Muslim country and kill millions of innocent people who have nothing to do with ISIS.”

I guess every country has these problems, but goddamn if Americans do not see all of the positive messages that come out of this go, “Shit, we got caught not being warmongering assholes. Need to drag this joint back in the gutter.”

251
HappyWarrior  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:45:47am

re: #240 The Vicious Babushka

Remember when all the wingnuts hated France?

[Embedded content]

I actually didn’t know this. I knew about the stupid anti-French idiocy like Freedom Fries but not these fuckwads saying that if France gets attacked, we shouldn’t care or help them. Pretty pathetic yet predictable as well.

252
Dark_Falcon  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:46:00am

I’ve got to go offline for a short time but I want to support RWC by asking people not to let their anger at George W. Bush blind them to the truth that it was Saddam Hussein who traumatized the Iraqi people and set things up so that the nation would break with anyone other than a monster at the helm.

Whatever the Bush family has done or will do, the deeds of Saddam Hussein and his family were FAR worse. Don’t let BDS blind you to Saddam’s evil.

253
HappyWarrior  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:46:23am

re: #250 Mattand

I’m starting to the “Nuke Islam like we did Japan” meme pop up on my FB feed, from some of my friends who claim political independence.

Forget the fact that the fucking analogy falls on it’s face out of the gate, what with Islam not being a country. Supporting that stupid fucking photo means you’re coming out and saying “I want to drop a nuclear bomb on a Muslim country and kill millions of innocent people who have nothing to do with ISIS.”

I guess every country has these problems, but goddamn if Americans do not see all of the positive messages that come out of this go, “Shit, we got caught not being warmongering assholes. Need to drag this joint back in the gutter.”

It really is so fucking stupid.

254
HappyWarrior  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:47:36am

re: #252 Dark_Falcon

I’ve got to go offline for a short time but I want to support RWC by asking people not to let their anger at George W. Bush blind them to the truth that it was Saddam Hussein who traumatized the Iraqi people and set things up so that the nation would break with anyone other than a monster at the helm.

Whatever the Bush family does or will do, the deeds of Saddam Hussein and his family were FAR worse. Don’t let BDS blind you to Saddam’s evil.

I don’t think anyone’s blind to how evil Saddam was but I think it’s fair to criticize the decisions that were made in regards to Iraq. As I got at last night though, I’m not in the mood to argue who was right when and all that but it was a mistake and I think Bush and his guys deserve criticism for it.

255
Belafon  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:47:44am

re: #248 KGxvi

Well, if you ask Texas, everything north of the rio grande, east of the Rockies and west of the Mississippi is a province of Texas.

I agree, and in the great breakup of the US a bunch of my neighbors would be trying to reclaim all the “lost” Texas land, like they tried to do when the Civil War started.

256
KGxvi  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:49:12am

re: #255 Belafon

The California-Texas Border Wars will be fought in Phoenix and Las Vegas.

257
HappyWarrior  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:50:42am

I’d also like ot point out that the way critics of the Iraq war were treated by the Bush administration and their allies in the media was disgraceful. Saying that we were Saddam supporters or tolerated his tyranny was pretty fucked up too. I don’t GWB was as evil as Saddam Hussein but I do think he and his guys made a terrible mistake when we should have been focused on Afghanistan.

258
jaunte  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:54:12am
259
Camacho DeezNuts 2016  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:54:27am

Criticism of Bush does not equal BDS.

260
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:54:50am

re: #246 Great White Snark

I’d really not want to pretend that human rights and sovereign nations rights were just an excuse to invade Kuwait. Partisan anger is no excuse to fictionalize motives. Unless attacking ISIS with troops on the ground as well as bombs from the air will just be a fucking excuse too.

If it was just an excuse as you claim, please note the majority Dem congress that did not hesitate at all to agree with this alleged excuse.

In early 1991, by a vote of 250-183, the House passed the Persian Gulf Resolution, authorizing Bush to use force against the Iraqi military.

Yeah, that was a stupid mistake. If I’d voted for that I’d be ashamed. The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia needs to be eliminated. If it took Saddam Hussein to do it, too bad. Nothing that could possibly replace it could be any worse. The Wahhabis can go back to stealing camels from each other in the Empty Quarter.

261
Camacho DeezNuts 2016  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:55:29am

re: #258 jaunte

He can’t even make brain jokes funny.

262
HappyWarrior  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:55:31am

re: #259 Camacho DeezNuts 2016

Criticism of Bush does not equal BDS.

Exactly. Hell a lot of his own father’s advisers thought it was a mistake. I don’t think those guys had “BDS.”

263
HappyWarrior  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:55:56am

re: #258 jaunte

[Embedded content]

He’s an asshole.

264
Lidane  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:56:53am
265
PhillyPretzel  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:56:56am

re: #249 Great White Snark

So far only cnn.com has mentioned it. okay I will add the AP to that list too. I am sure others will follow.

266
jaunte  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:57:15am

Does Carson ever answer a question without referring to his large brain?

267
Belafon  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:58:19am

re: #261 Camacho DeezNuts 2016

He can’t even make brain jokes funny.

My ten year old is working on his comedy skills. That sounds about like the kind of joke my kid would make if someone suggested come up with a joke involving brain surgery and terrorism.

268
Great White Snark  Nov 15, 2015 • 9:59:17am

re: #260 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

We agree on many things, but not that kicking Saddam out of Kuwait was a bad policy. Not just Congress agreed, but many nations did too. Hardly a partisan circumstance. GWB’s invasion is something we agree was just epic horrible. But not Kuwait and IMO not Afghanistan either.

I see nothing to be ashamed of in the vote to use military action and form that massive coalition to get Saddam out of Kuwait and then follow up with the destruction of his then very real very threatening WMD’s. Again with the world at large right there with us.

269
jaunte  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:00:33am
270
Great White Snark  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:01:13am

re: #265 PhillyPretzel

So far only cnn.com has mentioned it. okay I will add the AP to that list too. I am sure others will follow.

CNN running video that was quite a panic. Crowd psychology at work. Good lord imagine if they had pulled off an attack of the memorial.

271
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:02:04am
272
Great White Snark  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:03:29am

re: #259 Camacho DeezNuts 2016

Criticism of Bush does not equal BDS.

Except perhaps when applied to the wrong Bush and conflated with the wrong war, namely Kuwait.

273
sagehen  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:08:55am

re: #156 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Just another reason, even if you don’t believe in climate change, to support shifting our energy usage to renewables.

Al Qaeda, Isis, Wahabbism in general, is supported entirely by the Saudis. They finance the extremist madrassas, the extremist imams, the extremist mosques… all of it. With the money they get from fossil fuels.

If we had more solar generation, more windpower, we could tell them to go fuck themselves. Their country has only one source of income, and we could (if we wanted to) cut the legs out from under the value of that singular commodity.

274
Great White Snark  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:09:22am

So hey those guys that tried to insist we should have invaded Saudi after 9/11, looking for France to invade Belgium now?

275
PhillyPretzel  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:11:24am

re: #274 Great White Snark

Of course. That is how it goes. /half

276
Camacho DeezNuts 2016  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:12:40am

re: #274 Great White Snark

So hey those guys that tried to insist we should have invaded Saudi after 9/11, looking for France to invade Belgium now?

They will sell all that chocolate to fund terrorism and nukulah bombs.

277
Dr Lizardo  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:13:42am

re: #266 jaunte

Does Carson ever answer a question without referring to his large brain?

Check out the big brain on Ben!
278
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:17:03am

re: #268 Great White Snark

We agree on many things, but not that kicking Saddam out of Kuwait was a bad policy. Not just Congress agreed, but many nations did too. Hardly a partisan circumstance. GWB’s invasion is something we agree was just epic horrible. But not Kuwait and IMO not Afghanistan either.

I see nothing to be ashamed of in the vote to use military action and form that massive coalition to get Saddam out of Kuwait and then follow up with the destruction of his then very real very threatening WMD’s. Again with the world at large right there with us.

No, going after Al Qaida in Afghanistan was a thoroughly reasonable thing to do after 9/11. It would have been nice to have some kind of a plan…unfortunately the Afghan invasion only took place because Dumbya wanted “Bombs falling somewhere within 30 days”, while getting ready for the diversion to Iraq.

279
KGxvi  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:17:46am

re: #276 Camacho DeezNuts 2016

They’re probably illegally trading chocolates for clocks with the Swiss. Don’t let the whole Swiss “neutrality” thing fool you

280
Lidane  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:18:13am
281
HappyWarrior  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:19:08am

re: #280 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Embedded Image

Oh go fuck yourself Jeb seriously.

282
Great White Snark  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:19:41am

re: #275 PhillyPretzel

Of course. That is how it goes. /half

So lets look at a number. To some Refugee/Syrian/Muslim equals terrorist.

Lets divide 2 by four million. 0.0000005% Close the borders! Let them starve, rot die of exposure all in the name of security. Sometimes I think the aliens in War Of The Worlds were right.
////

283
KGxvi  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:19:45am

re: #280 Lidane

THEY WANT A REALAJOUS WAR, LETS GIVE EM ONE!!1!1

284
jaunte  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:20:45am

Jeb doesn’t need water supplies to defeat Saladin, he has the True Cross.

285
Camacho DeezNuts 2016  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:22:04am

re: #281 HappyWarrior

Oh go fuck yourself Jeb seriously.

He’s the Moderate! How most very Moderate-y!

286
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:22:39am

re: #284 jaunte

Jeb doesn’t need water supplies to defeat Saladin, he has the True Cross.

Saladin was a Kurd—I thought the Republicans liked the Kurds….

287
A Mom Anon  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:24:23am

re: #281 HappyWarrior

Pander Bear is Pandering. I haz a surprised face. Have a Shut The Fuck Up Cake and sit down Jebbie.

288
Mattand  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:25:06am

re: #280 Lidane

You know, if just one GOP POTUS clown or their supporters would just come and say “Yeah, we want a religious war”, they’d at least would be honest about their true feelings.

289
blueraven  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:25:25am
290
KGxvi  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:26:33am

re: #288 Mattand

Isn’t “this is a clash of civilizations” the PC way of saying that?

291
HappyWarrior  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:26:37am

re: #288 Mattand

You know, if just one GOP POTUS clown or their supporters would just come and say “Yeah, we want a religious war”, they’d at least would be honest about their true feelings.

Yeah no kidding.

292
Dark_Falcon  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:34:12am

re: #274 Great White Snark

So hey those guys that tried to insist we should have invaded Saudi after 9/11, looking for France to invade Belgium now?

You’ve got the wrong way, RWC; It’s Germany that is supposed to invade Belgium.

/World Wars humor.

293
Lidane  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:35:22am

David Frum has found his inner Trump:

294
Charles Johnson  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:36:15am
295
HappyWarrior  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:36:51am

re: #294 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Enlist then asshole.

296
Lidane  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:38:22am

re: #294 Charles Johnson

Declarations of war require a sovereign nation. Which sovereign nation should we declare war against?

Republicans are really working overtime to stay The Party of Stupid. WTF.

297
Dark_Falcon  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:39:01am

re: #293 Lidane

David Frum has found his inner Trump:

[Embedded content]

He’s mounting a desperate attempt at relevance by going Full Coulter.

298
jaunte  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:39:31am

Let’s bomb the capital of ISIS. Where is that again?

299
sagehen  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:39:32am

Is this when we remind them that Obama asked for an AUMF about a year and a half ago and Congress wouldn’t even take up the question?

300
Barefoot Grin  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:43:12am

Adel Termos—a man who tackled one of the suicide bombers in Beirut last week. Probably saved dozens of lives. He and his daughter were killed.

301
Decatur Deb  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:43:52am

re: #294 Charles Johnson

Bush urges U.S. declaration of war against ISIL politi.co | AP Photo

Perhaps this time the Baby Bushes will show up for National Guard muster.

302
KGxvi  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:43:59am

re: #296 Lidane

What could possibly go wrong with giving ISIS the legitimacy of being a sovereign nation?

re: #293 Lidane

It is entirely possible that the Mid East map will have to be redrawn when all is said and done. Between Iraq and Syria wars, I don’t see how the old order survives

303
Dr Lizardo  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:44:25am

re: #298 jaunte

Let’s bomb the capital of ISIS. Where is that again?

Actually, Raqqa is the declared capital of ad-Dawlah al-Islāmiyah.

304
Dark_Falcon  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:44:33am

re: #284 jaunte

Jeb doesn’t need water supplies to defeat Saladin, he has the True Cross.

A Hattin reference. Well Played!

305
Dark_Falcon  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:45:41am

re: #298 jaunte

Let’s bomb the capital of ISIS. Where is that again?

Raqqa, Syria.

306
Charles Johnson  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:47:36am
307
Decatur Deb  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:47:49am

re: #296 Lidane

Declarations of war require a sovereign nation. Which sovereign nation should we declare war against?

Republicans are really working overtime to stay The Party of Stupid. WTF.

We have basically been treating them like land pirates. They’re just as dead when the Hellfire clears.

308
Camacho DeezNuts 2016  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:48:24am

re: #298 jaunte

Let’s bomb the capital of ISIS. Where is that again?

Why do you hate our troops?

309
A Mom Anon  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:48:29am

esquire.com

He’s not wrong. If we want this shit to stop we have to follow the money. Sure, there will always be angry extremist assholes looking to cause shit, but without the State Sponsors, terrorism can’t grow as it has.

Also, the looting of historical sites and selling of those items on the black market should be closely looked at. I’m sure there are other sources of funding going on, but again, it’s about the money. Without it, big networks can’t be supported.

310
Feline Fearless Leader  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:48:32am

re: #274 Great White Snark

So hey those guys that tried to insist we should have invaded Saudi after 9/11, looking for France to invade Belgium now?

It would be France just reclaiming a former province, wouldn’t it?
//

311
Dark_Falcon  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:49:05am

re: #299 sagehen

Is this when we remind them that Obama asked for an AUMF about a year and a half ago and Congress wouldn’t even take up the question?

That AUMF was a good deal more restrictive than the (self-applied) rules the Obama administration is currently operating under, which is part of why Congress didn’t want to pass it.

If a broader Authorization was put before Congress now, I believe it would pass.

312
Charles Johnson  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:49:22am
313
Eclectic Cyborg  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:49:36am

re: #294 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

A Bush warmongering again??

Oy…does he not realize how horrible those optics look?

314
Dark_Falcon  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:50:25am

re: #307 Decatur Deb

We have basically been treating them like land pirates. They’re just as dead when the Hellfire clears.

Well they do fly black flags with white writing and symbols on them, and they are the enemies of the human race.

315
HappyWarrior  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:52:43am

re: #306 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

It even says she got turned down. Webb’s be-clowning himself big time here.

316
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:54:16am

re: #306 Charles Johnson

I was turned down by every service branch in 1970.
They said it was because of my bad eyesight, but I knew guys who had the same bad eyesight were perfectly OK to be drafted at the time.

317
Dark_Falcon  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:55:16am

re: #315 HappyWarrior

It even says she got turned down. Webb’s be-clowning himself big time here.

He already dropped out so he can beclown himself if he wants to. Just as long as he remembers to wear the big red nose.

318
jaunte  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:55:34am

Declaring war against ISIS would be a good recruiting tool for ISIS.

319
Tigger2  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:56:32am

re: #306 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

320
HappyWarrior  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:57:01am

re: #317 Dark_Falcon

He already dropped out so he can beclown himself if he wants to. Just as long as he remembers to wear the big red nose.

I know he dropped out. It doesn’t take away from he’s full of shit.

321
Camacho DeezNuts 2016  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:58:09am

re: #318 jaunte

Declaring war against ISIS would be a good recruiting tool for ISIS.

It’s exactly what they want. They want ‘Boots on the Ground.’

322
HappyWarrior  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:58:41am

re: #319 Tigger2

[Embedded content]

He’s also got his own record of treating women who wanted to serve like crap.

323
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:58:56am

re: #193 makeitstop

I replied that posting half-assed ‘solutions’ to very complex problems on Facebook was a waste of time, and that any move the government makes could end up being catastrophic. Then I logged off FB and plan to stay off it for a while.

But I’m left to wonder - how the hell did we end up responsible for making the entire world safe from terrorism?

I generally keep away from FB discussions on politics and have unfriended people who get too extreme about it.

The USA shares some degree of responsibility for creating the power vacuum that allowed Al Qaeda and ISIS to establish themselves in Iraq and Syria.

324
Charles Johnson  Nov 15, 2015 • 10:59:16am
325
Charles Johnson  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:00:08am

In case you didn’t know, Jubbal is a very outspoken critic of Gamergate.

326
HappyWarrior  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:00:22am

re: #324 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

The fuck is wrong with people.

327
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:01:44am

re: #217 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Also, a lot of the blame attaches to the other Bush for getting all verklemmt over Saddam crossing an imaginary line in the sand drawn at random by some faceless bureaucrat in the British Foreign Office in 1920. The Emir of Kuwait lost his made-up throne? Who gives a rat’s ass?

I had a lot of trouble with the First Gulf War, but could not really put my finger on it until TV showed film of the “liberation” of Kuwait City. Then it hit me: what liberty? The Emir had dissolved Parliament and was running the state as a feudal monarch. We were just replacing a hostile despot with a friendly one. That is not “liberation”.

328
sagehen  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:03:42am

re: #306 Charles Johnson

I briefly considered the Air Force in the late 70’s; the recruiter was actually pretty encouraging when he heard my SAT scores, talked a lot about their tuition assistance, and cautiously optimistic that the specialty I was interested in might open to women within a few years while I’d still be young enough for flight training. It was only when he found out I wore contact lenses that he told me I’d never ever qualify. He still tried to persuade me co onsider aircraft maintenance…

329
Belafon  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:03:56am

re: #280 Lidane

Jeb wanted to say “the rich.”

330
BeachDem  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:06:30am

re: #309 A Mom Anon

esquire.com

He’s not wrong. If we want this shit to stop we have to follow the money. Sure, there will always be angry extremist assholes looking to cause shit, but without the State Sponsors, terrorism can’t grow as it has.

Also, the looting of historical sites and selling of those items on the black market should be closely looked at. I’m sure there are other sources of funding going on, but again, it’s about the money. Without it, big networks can’t be supported.

Wow—people are really responding to that article. Last night, when I emailed it to somebody, there were 25k shares; now 89.5k.

331
Eclectic Cyborg  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:10:29am

You ever have those days where you think “my god, the internet sucks”?

332
Dark_Falcon  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:12:59am

re: #326 HappyWarrior

The fuck is wrong with people.

Doxing women and threatening online to rape them only goes so far for the truly sociopathic. Soon or later, some ‘Gamergate’ asshole was bound to try something like this.

And “this” is a variation of ‘SWATting’ where the assholes falsely claim someone who “looks Muslim” is a terrorist in order to try to generate an armed response by law enforcement and/or get the target attacked by local bigots.

Either way, the object is to get the target hurt or killed without the liar having to carry out the attack or directly order it done.

333
lizardofid  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:14:14am

re: #331 Eclectic Cyborg

You ever have those days where you think “my god, the internet sucks”?

The internet is the” window to the ‘holes”.

334
HappyWarrior  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:14:15am

re: #332 Dark_Falcon

Doxing women and threatening online to rape them only goes so far for the truly sociopathic. Soon or later, some ‘Gamergate’ asshole was bound to try something like this.

And “this” is a variation of ‘SWATting’ where the assholes falsely claim someone who “looks Muslim” is a terrorist in order to try to generate an armed response by law enforcement and/or get the target attacked by local bigots.

Either way, the object is to get the target hurt or killed without the liar having to carry out the attack or directly order it done.

Oh I know. Nasty pricks.

335
ObserverArt  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:14:26am

re: #331 Eclectic Cyborg

You ever have those days where you think “my god, the internet sucks”?

We do seem to be suffering a bout of the stupids.

Election year and a big terrorist strike. It is not going to be getting better any time soon.

336
CuriousLurker  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:14:46am

re: #321 Camacho DeezNuts 2016

It’s exactly what they want. They want ‘Boots on the Ground.’

QFT. Here’s a excerpt from an article Romantic Heretic created a Page about—it’s long, but very much worth reading and the author does a good job of making his case, especially at the end—you have to read the whole thing though or you won’t really get it.

Emphasis is in the original:

For the rest of you, ask yourself: When a bunch of terrorists blow up a school or shoot up an office full of cartoonists, do you think it’s because they don’t know we have guns and bombs and drones? You think they do what they do because they believe we’re “too weak to strike back” and that we thus need to “show them how strong we are?”

Holy shit, dude, these people can read the damned news. They know exactly what we’re going to do: We’re going to overreact. We do it every time. That’s why they do it. So stop, step back, and understand something that most of America doesn’t:

They do what they do, because they know we’re too weak to resist striking back.

Our knee-jerk, bomb-dropping reflex is our weakness. They are trying to exploit it, because retaliation bombings are how they recruit more terrorists to their side. And please note that when I talk about their “side,” I’m not talking about Islam, or even Islamic terrorism. […]

337
A Mom Anon  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:15:43am

re: #330 BeachDem

Hopefully it will start some people thinking about this and some halfway decent conversations can begin. It’s not going to change anything, but nothing changes if people have no clue what’s been happening. We’re pretty cocooned here in America, we don’t have to see the direct consequences of much of anything we do.

Someone I lost as a friend yesterday has just gone around the bend with his racism, xenophobia, liberal hating bullshit. This is someone that will absolutely, under no circumstances drive a smaller vehicle than his giant as fuck truck. He’s a big guy, but he doesn’t need to have it for work (he’s disabled- and collecting disability while bitching about others who do). He uses Styrofoam dishes and cups on purpose, he doesn’t care what the liberal hippies say about it being bad for the environment. I mean he will not go out and buy actual dishes, he uses Styrofoam just to be a dick. He refuses to believe there is a connection between the Saudi royal family, oil and terrorism. Maybe some of our mutual friends will read this and begin to think about what they’re doing. I posted it last night, we’ll see.

338
Patricia Kayden  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:16:06am

re: #280 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Embedded Image

How do you determine whether Syrian refugees are pretending to be Christians though? Jeb! should just come clean and say that he wants a halt to all Syrian refugees.

339
Eclectic Cyborg  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:16:19am

re: #335 ObserverArt

We do seem to be suffering a bout of the stupids.

Election year and a big terrorist strike. It is not going to be getting better any time soon.

I wonder if the internet has made people worse or if it has just made the worst people better organized?

340
HappyWarrior  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:17:18am

re: #339 Eclectic Cyborg

I wonder if the internet has made people worse or if it has just made the worst people better organized?

I think people more or less have stayed the same but the internet has given them an outlet they would not have in the past. By the same token, it allows good people to be more prominent too.

341
Belafon  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:17:59am

re: #331 Eclectic Cyborg

You ever have those days where you think “my god, the internet sucks”?

I live in Texas. It’s no worse on the internet than I hear from coworkers and people at restaurants. But then I also get to hear about the people in Paris who opened their homes to people who couldn’t make it home, and about how people were tweeting at the concert that the terrorists were killing (would the police have stormed the concert without this information? I doubt it.), and I’ve donated to causes in places I never would have heard of before the internet.

People are just writing down what’s always been in their heads. I don’t blame the internet for that.

342
ObserverArt  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:20:30am

re: #339 Eclectic Cyborg

I wonder if the internet has made people worse or if it has just made the worst people better organized?

We need to admit the internet is also a big tool of the terrorists. So, in a way all the reactions to terrorism are going to be amped up on the ‘net. All sides represented because they all have a site and a million other outlets.

343
GlutenFreeJesus  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:22:04am

re: #338 Patricia Kayden

If their names are John Smith, they must be Christian.

344
Jay C  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:22:14am

re: #306 Charles Johnson

Uh, she already said when and where: Arkansas, 1975. You want the name of the recruiter too?

Yep. Signed, witnessed and notarized statements, or it didn’t happen!

345
HappyWarrior  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:22:59am

re: #344 Jay C

Yep. Signed, witnessed and notarized statements, or it didn’t happen!

I demand a DVD with audio commentary by Hillary and the recruiter!

346
CuriousLurker  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:24:24am

re: #339 Eclectic Cyborg

I wonder if the internet has made people worse or if it has just made the worst people better organized?

A little bit of both, I think. Their ability to organize & exchange ideas sort of distills them, or magnifies them. Yeah, I think magnification is a better analogy since a magnifying glass on it’s own is just a tool, but if you use it to focus concentrated sunlight…

Getty Image

347
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:29:12am
348
PhillyPretzel  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:30:09am

re: #321 Camacho DeezNuts 2016

It’s exactly what they want. They want ‘Boots on the Ground.’

Hmm. I have to fetch the local cat for that one. He is black with little white paws. He is called “Boots.”

349
Belafon  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:30:10am

re: #347 Backwoods_Sleuth

Was there a lion, a hippo, and a giraffe involved?

350
Reality Based Steve  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:31:04am

re: #345 HappyWarrior

I demand a DVD with audio commentary by Hillary and the recruiter!

I demand that we create a time machine and go back and validate this.

RBS

351
CuriousLurker  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:31:30am

re: #347 Backwoods_Sleuth

Heh. *waits for escaped zebra Twitter account…*

352
Backwoods_Sleuth  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:32:01am
353
Belafon  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:32:05am

re: #321 Camacho DeezNuts 2016

It’s exactly what they want. They want ‘Boots on the Ground.’

I’m pretty sure what they want is to be able to run the Middle East. If we put troops in without a coherent plan and cause the regular citizens to side with ISIS, then they’ll win. If we do nothing, then they win.

354
Reality Based Steve  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:33:00am

re: #347 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Waiting for Right Wing Outrage… “Half Black Animals escape from cages, run wild in streets wreaking havoc.”

RBS

355
CuriousLurker  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:35:45am

LOL

356
CuriousLurker  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:38:38am

re: #353 Belafon

I’m pretty sure what they want is to be able to run the Middle East. If we put troops in without a coherent plan and cause the regular citizens to side with ISIS, then they’ll win. If we do nothing, then they win.

Surely there are options between boots on the ground and doing nothing.

357
Camacho DeezNuts 2016  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:41:08am

re: #348 PhillyPretzel

Hmm. I have to fetch the local cat for that one. He is black with little white paws. He is called “Boots.”

Yes, but is he actually on the ground or not? And does he like cucumbers?

358
Eclectic Cyborg  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:42:00am

re: #356 CuriousLurker

Surely there are options between boots on the ground and doing nothing.

Not if you’re a Republican.

359
CuriousLurker  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:42:12am

re: #357 Camacho DeezNuts 2016

Yes, but is he actually on the ground or not? And does he like cucumbers?

ROFL

360
HappyWarrior  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:42:51am

I say we need Boots on the ground to deal with our swiping problem.

361
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:44:15am

re: #354 Reality Based Steve

Waiting for Right Wing Outrage… “Half Black Animals African Immigrants escape from cages, run wild in streets wreaking havoc.”

RBS

362
Reality Based Steve  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:44:44am

re: #357 Camacho DeezNuts 2016

Yes, but is he actually on the ground or not? And does he like cucumbers?

I love the way cats will reach out with their paws and just NOT quite touch something, again and again. Mine do that, it’s weird.

RBS

363
Camacho DeezNuts 2016  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:46:32am

re: #356 CuriousLurker

Surely there are options between boots on the ground and doing nothing.

Yes, drones with Hellfires and a couple of JDAMs. Here, have some freedoms.

364
Blind Frog Belly White  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:47:22am

re: #358 Eclectic Cyborg

Not if you’re a Republican.

Binary thinkers. Either we’re in full-on, no-holds-barred, kill-‘em-all war using all weapons at our disposal, or we’re doing nothing.

365
SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:49:14am

re: #364 Blind Frog Belly White

Binary thinkers. Either we’re in full-on, no-holds-barred, kill-‘em-all war using all weapons at our disposal, or we’re doing nothing.

on their side.

366
SteveMcGaziBolaGate RN  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:50:47am

Jesus Fn Christ:

philly.com

“A 9-year-old boy and his 12-year-old neighbor found the dead infants, their umbilical cords still attached, along the 1800 block of Palethorp Street, according to preliminary police information. The babies - one male, one female - appeared to have been ‘just born,’ investigators said.”

367
Kryptik  Nov 15, 2015 • 11:59:34am

re: #352 Backwoods_Sleuth

Is it terrible of me that the first thing that I thought of when I read this was “in West Philadelphia, born to graze”?

368
Nyet  Nov 15, 2015 • 12:38:38pm

re: #298 jaunte

Let’s bomb the capital of ISIS. Where is that again?

Dabiq?

369
GlutenFreeJesus  Nov 15, 2015 • 2:29:13pm

re: #355 CuriousLurker

Someone posted in there: we are one terrorist attack away from becoming a fascist state.

My reply: one terrorist attack away by a non-white, non-Christian.

To elaborate… When a white dude goes shooting up kids in a school, we rush to defend guns. When someone of color goes all bang bang, we must set up internment camps, and turn the Middle East to glass.

370
Lancelot Link  Nov 15, 2015 • 4:01:27pm

re: #251 HappyWarrior

I actually didn’t know this. I knew about the stupid anti-French idiocy like Freedom Fries but not these fuckwads saying that if France gets attacked, we shouldn’t care or help them. Pretty pathetic yet predictable as well.

Yes, that was a prevalent opinion at LGF at one time.


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