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1 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Jan 12, 2011 11:20:53pm

I suppose there is no way to make someone who has committed no crime go for an evaluation. If there is enough evidence —I think there was in this case —perhaps the law can be written that makes sense without compromising civil rights.

2 jaunte  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:44:43am
Second, the law should no longer require, as a condition of involuntary incarceration, that seriously disturbed individuals constitute a danger to themselves or others, let alone a “substantial” or “imminent” danger, as many states do. A delusional loss of contact with reality should be enough to trigger a process that starts with multiple offers of voluntary assistance and ends with involuntary treatment, including commitment if necessary.


The additional step in this, of course, is for communities to be willing to fund sufficient care facilities and personnel from their tax base.

3 aagcobb  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 11:31:20am

re: #2 jaunte

Considering that there is very little willingness to fund the services government currently provides, I’m not going to hold my breath waiting for that to happen.

4 reine.de.tout  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 11:53:40am

re: #2 jaunte

The additional step in this, of course, is for communities to be willing to fund sufficient care facilities and personnel from their tax base.

This is true.

I know the State of La. has 3 in-patient mental health facilities around the state, and several mental health clinics (as well as 5 charity hospitals plus parish clinics for medical needs, state funded). So some states manage to do it.

5 justaminute  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 2:12:05pm

This would be really hard to go somewhere, people still remember being confined in mental facilities for being the gay. Unfortunately, we have a very ugly past with forced confinement. A possible solution is for the judge to appoint a lawyer for the mentally ill person. An advocate with no familial ties and maybe a background in mental health could be the solution.

6 reine.de.tout  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 3:25:52pm

re: #5 justaminute

This would be really hard to go somewhere, people still remember being confined in mental facilities for being the gay. Unfortunately, we have a very ugly past with forced confinement. A possible solution is for the judge to appoint a lawyer for the mentally ill person. An advocate with no familial ties and maybe a background in mental health could be the solution.

An “involuntary commitment” law would indeed have a distressingly thin line, I think.

But as things stand now - if everyone around an adult knows there’s something wrong and he/she needs intervention and help - but the person himself doesn’t think he/she needs it - there simply is so little that can be done to see to it they get the help they need. Family & friends are put into a position of being enforcement officers, trying to FORCE the person into care. It’s a mess.

7 Velvet Elvis  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 3:32:58pm

Two points.

1. I’m bipolar and don’t like this slippery slope one bit.

2. I’m bipolar with no health insurance. What’s this magical “help” thing that people are saying there people should get? Where does it come form? Does it rain from the sky? The newer antipsychotics that don’t have side effects just as debilitating as the original condition cost $600 a month or more.

I, want, need and have been begging for more help than I’ve been getting for years. There’s none there. As is I pay about 25% of my annual income for the minimum medication required to remain a functional member of society. If I were to go off it I would never be able to do the work required to pay to get back on it.

I laugh at the idea of involuntary commitment. On whose dime? As it is they can’t even afford to give free medication to people on an outpatient basis unless they are so sick they are on disability and have given up on trying to be functional members of society.

8 Velvet Elvis  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 3:35:54pm

re: #7 Conservative Moonbat

Two points.

1. I’m bipolar and don’t like this slippery slope one bit.

2. I’m bipolar with no health insurance. What’s this magical “help” thing that people are saying there people should get? Where does it come form? Does it rain from the sky? The newer antipsychotics that don’t have side effects just as debilitating as the original condition cost $600 a month or more.

I, want, need and have been begging for more help than I’ve been getting for years. There’s none there. As is I pay about 25% of my annual income for the minimum medication required to remain a functional member of society. If I were to go off it I would never be able to do the work required to pay to get back on it.

I laugh at the idea of involuntary commitment. On whose dime? As it is they can’t even afford to give free medication to people on an outpatient basis unless they are so sick they are on disability and have given up on trying to be functional members of society.

And to get on disability you have to have already been diagnosed, etc.

9 reine.de.tout  Thu, Jan 13, 2011 7:45:12pm

re: #7 Conservative Moonbat

Two points.

1. I’m bipolar and don’t like this slippery slope one bit.

2. I’m bipolar with no health insurance. What’s this magical “help” thing that people are saying there people should get? Where does it come form? Does it rain from the sky? The newer antipsychotics that don’t have side effects just as debilitating as the original condition cost $600 a month or more.

I, want, need and have been begging for more help than I’ve been getting for years. There’s none there. As is I pay about 25% of my annual income for the minimum medication required to remain a functional member of society. If I were to go off it I would never be able to do the work required to pay to get back on it.

I laugh at the idea of involuntary commitment. On whose dime? As it is they can’t even afford to give free medication to people on an outpatient basis unless they are so sick they are on disability and have given up on trying to be functional members of society.

I’ve no doubt it may be slippery slope, as you say, and as I said earlier, the line would be a distressingly thin one.

I do think, however, that people with certain disorders that keep them from recognizing that they have a problem (which is particularly true with those with delusional disorders), and those people then have to get help to avoid harm to themselves and/or others - well, something has to be done, IMO. And I’m speaking from personal family experience.

The difficulty with delusional disorders, is that there is no cure; even with medication, the delusions continue. It’s a very distressing condition, for the person who lives with it, and for the families of those who suffer from it, particularly when it begins to lead to violent behavior toward oneself or others.

I’ve known and worked with and am related to folks who are bipolar, and folks who are OCD - these are typically NOT the sorts of issues that lead to violent behavior. The disorders that result in delusions - a whole different ball of wax.

As to disability - that can be a round-robin of aggravation. There’s a waiting period, and then you can’t go to work and earn more than a certain amount or you lose the disability; and then if you lose the job, it takes a couple of years of no income to get back on disability … that’s a mess all itself.

10 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Jan 14, 2011 2:03:47am

People with schizophrenia are statistically less likely to commit acts of violence than individuals with no psychiatric diagnosis. The people we really need to watch are returning vets with PTSD but nobody would ever stand for that.

The thing about violent acts committed by schizophrenics, however rare it may be, is that it grabs media attention because it doesn’t make any sense. A guy who loses his job and then kills his wife and kids because he can’t provide for them anymore we can kinda understand. Cases like this are much more common. Schizophrenics acting out in violence is much more rare. It’s only interesting to the media because it makes no fucking sense (or because a congressperson gets shot).

The most delusional I ever got was seriously considering running for metro council on a green party ticket. I’m still not sure it was a bad idea, just impractical.


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