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1 A Mom Anon  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:17:46am

The thing is though, there really is a serious wage divide, and companies are not reinvesting in their workforce, they’re hoarding the money and offshoring it as well as jobs. There are actually laws on the books that favor outsourcing jobs and few breaks for companies that don’t. You are right, there isn’t a simple answer here, but I do think looking back at when we were more prosperous as a nation and what’s different between then and now is worth a look. If we’re a consumer driven economy and no one can afford to buy anything because of depressed wages and high unemployment rates, then what’s the answer?

Another side of this is also the demonizing of “dirty jobs”, parents are steering their kids away from skilled trades because they’re deemed “beneath us” and so we do not have enough builders and craftspeople to take care of infrastructure and other things that are falling apart. I’d personally like to see a project like the WPA after WWII, investing ALL of the money allocated for that into putting people into training and back to work rebuilding the parts of the country that are falling into ruin and getting people back into the NPS(as one example) to maintain and watch over our parks and historical places. Instead these things, along with education and other badly needed programs, are among the first to be cut and people scream about it being a waste when nothing could be farther from the truth.

We should be able to do more than one thing at once, but with Congress so fiercely divided and with a badly informed public on top of that, it’s been nearly impossible to get funds released for damned near anything except minor stuff which is a teeny bandaid on a gaping wound. There is just no excuse for homeless veterans or kids going hungry in this country, there is enough money, but the priorities of those in charge are not with the people. Until that changes this isn’t going to get better.

2 Political Atheist  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:40:59am

re: #1 A Mom Anon

Thanks for a well thought out comment.

3 Skip Intro  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 11:09:59am

re: #1 A Mom Anon

Another side of this is also the demonizing of “dirty jobs”, parents are steering their kids away from skilled trades because they’re deemed “beneath us” and so we do not have enough builders and craftspeople to take care of infrastructure and other things that are falling apart.

This is something that has irritated me for decades. Jobs in the electrical and plumbing trades pay well, can’t be off-shored, give you freedom of movement, and don’t leave you with $50,000 of college debt to pay off while you’re working as a barista at Starbucks. Yet, school councilors seem to be working more as college salespeople than career advisers, and many parents would be outraged if they didn’t.

4 Political Atheist  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 11:38:15am

re: #3 Skip Intro

Jobs in the electrical and plumbing trades pay well, can’t be off-shored, give you freedom of movement, and don’t leave you with $50,000 of college debt to pay off while you’re working as a barista at Starbucks.

QFT
Whole industries live or die on skilled hands of people. And truly they deserve no less respect than the doctors, lawyers, software developers.

Right now the jewelry biz has good paying openings, because we shed so many good people to the great recession. Many of them can not or will not come back, it’s been years for many. We really need CAD people, 3d printer operators, Gold/platinum/silver smiths. Pave diamond setters. Big production is mostly gone. Custom work and new tech is making a big difference. Production is now well decentralized and that can be a very good thing for jobs. American jewelry is coming back. The missing element? The skilled & experienced human element. The product is glamorous, Our working people are rarely respected that well. And they have a huge social advantage over how plumbers are viewed. That’s not right.

5 A Mom Anon  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 12:19:02pm

re: #4 Political Atheist

Everyone looks down on the plumbers until a kid flushes a towel down the toilet at 9 at night, or the septic tank backs up into the yard (though that’s more than what a plumber does, but it’s still a dirty job).

We have a friend who does HVAC and plumbing work, along with other home repairs, he’s his own boss. I recommended him to a friend who needed HVAC work and to fix a garbage disposal that her husband broke(who throws chicken bones into the disposal? Seriously). She was pissed that he charged her for his labor for those jobs. I explained to her she’s lucky I gave her his number, any of the big companies around here would have charged her twice what he did. I told her to go ahead and call other companies, see what they charge. She shut up real fast after making a few calls, lol.

I will never understand well off people who don’t get that the reason they can work without getting their hands dirty and have all those amenities in their lives they take for granted is because of people who do the jobs that make civilization possible. Imagine life with no plumbers, electricians, builders or the dozens of other fields that make modern things tick. Things would devolve pretty quickly without them. I’m lucky, I married a guy who can fix almost anything (except cars) that breaks.

6 ausador  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 1:21:11pm

In many of these “freetrade” agreements we are competing with countries that effectively have no middle class. There are the rich (business and landowners along with corrupt politicians) and then there are peasants who work for wages that provide for a minimal subsistence level well below what most any U.S. worker would accept.

The champions of “free trade” point to the rising standard of living in China to prove how successful their strategy has been. Of course they never mention that Chinese production in labor intensive/low return fields is now being outsourced to countries like Vietnam, Myanmar (Burma), and Laos.

I have read multiple apologetic screeds for free trade that promised that once “wages became more even” across international boundaries that the U.S. worker would someday reap the benefits of unlimited worldwide markets.

While that may be true what kind of “benefit” are they actually talking about here? The ability to compete globally but only once the average American’s standard of living has been reduced to that of a shanty dwelling, non-unionized, non-benefited, fire at will, subsistence only worker?

Judging by the actual results so far rather than many of the stated intentions could lead one to believe that the actual goal is to reduce the average American standard of living while enhancing the income of the top 1%.

If that same 1% is successful in their oft stated desires to slash the funding for or do away completely with programs such as housing assistance and food stamps what choice will workers have? Take whatever job you are offered at whatever wage they are willing to begrudge you. Or starve on the street. Your choice…

7 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 3:12:21pm

The big problem is the sheer Orwellian nature of the term, “Free Trade” for free trade agreements have nothing to do with trade at all.

They have to do with allowing large corporations to move their money, and factories, and jobs with few barriers. There was no discussion at all about things such as labour standards, environmental protection or employee safety. Nor was there any realization of what this would do to the tax base of the countries involved in ‘free trade.’

For example before Canada and the U.S. signed the FTA about 93% of all goods flowed across the border with no barriers at all. That’s about as free as trade as ever been. Then the FTA got signed and jobs starting flowing from high paying areas like Southern Ontario and the U.S. Northeast to the South mostly, where wages were lower and regulation looser. Until NAFTA was signed and then the jobs went to Mexico, which then moved to Asia.

So free movement of jobs and manufacturing capabilities killed the middle class in North America. But it was called ‘free trade’ because free and trade are good things and only evil people could oppose those things.

Sigh.

8 EPR-radar  Mon, Feb 3, 2014 3:54:02pm

re: #6 ausador


Judging by the actual results so far rather than many of the stated intentions could lead one to believe that the actual goal is to reduce the average American standard of living while enhancing the income of the top 1%.

This x 1,000. The ‘stated intentions’ of the free trade ideologues are completely irrelevant. We have decades of cold hard fact relating to the hollowing out of the middle class in this country by sending the jobs overseas.

IMO, outsourcing the jobs is the single largest factor contributing to the ongoing rot in the US economy.


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