re: #187 Dark_Falcon

Shoot down, yes. Take control? Still doubt it.

BBL

Like I said, probably not. That said, I think Iran has a significantly better military than most of the rest of the region. Rather than the whole song and dance, I’ll give my two touchstones I’ve used in other discussion groups: logistics and professionalism.

Logistics first. Iran makes most of almost all its toys. They not only make tanks and APCs and rifles and missiles and submarines and ships and aircraft (yes, all of that), they make munitions. Bullets, for example. They make (some their own, some by license) radars and sonars and night vision devices. In my experience, the willingness and ability to produce one’s own materiel is worth a tier of ranking all by itself.

Professionalism isn’t a mis-statement. I need to start by pointing out what’s normal for the region, why Iraq (among others) had such problems. A major weakness of most middle eastern militaries is that they put warriors higher than soldiers. Ego, honor, whatever you want to call it, the role of support is trash. Add to this the unwillingness to help another leader succeed - again, a matter of ego. Normal Middle eastern brigades cooperation depends on the force of the division commander’s personality. Same for each unit up and down the chain. Iran is different. To see it, see if you can get one of those reports of military exercises they conduct. We habitually expect a division will intentionally do a low-priority demonstration to create the opportunity for a division of another corps to sweep through when considering US and Nato forces. Middle eastern? Not so much — yet Iran trains for and displays these sorts of actions. They do cooperative exercises between army, navy, guards, and air forces - and which is primary changes more to mission than to ego.

Note that this doesn’t mean they’re fully integrated. They still have inter-unit and inter-service rivalries that are even stronger than the US Navy vs Marines. But they’re in the same ballpark while most of the middle east is, well, nobody’s even sure they’re playing the same game.

We have better training. We have better toys. They are not, however, Iraq. They are no longer the nation that relied upon 50:1 ratios of poorly trained conscripts led by children used as minesweepers. And if we go in expecting another Iraq, we’re going to get a very bloody nose.