Cain Changes Story, Admits He Knew of Sexual Harassment Settlements

Denials becoming admissions

PoliticsOctober 2011 • Views: 28,482

The latest on the fast-developing Herman Cain sexual harassment scandal:

First, you knew this was coming, didn’t you? NBC confirms one Cain accuser received cash settlement.

NBC News has confirmed that one woman received a settlement from the National Restaurant Association after complaining about inappropriate sexual conduct by Herman Cain.

NBC News is not disclosing the name of the woman nor characterizing who she is.

Cain denied the allegations, saying on FOX this morning he was “falsely accused.” “I have never sexually harassed anyone, anyone,” he said, “and absolutely, these are false accusations.”

Followed closely by the right’s attempt to get out in front of the story as soon as possible; Byron York at the Washington Examiner: Cain details gesture that led to sex accusation.

Van Susteren asked what Cain did that led to the accusation. There were reportedly more than one accusations in the complaint, but Cain said he recalled just one incident. “She was in my office one day, and I made a gesture saying — and I was standing close to her — and I made a gesture saying you are the same height as my wife. And I brought my hand up to my chin saying, ‘My wife comes up to my chin.’” At that point, Cain gestured with his flattened palm near his chin. “And that was put in there [the complaint] as something that made her uncomfortable,” Cain said, “something that was in the sexual harassment charge.”

Van Susteren asked whether the woman complained at the time. “I can’t recall any comment that she made, positive or negative.”

Cain also offered new information about the settlement of the case. Politico, which broke the sexual harassment allegation story, said that the woman received a money settlement “in the five-figure range.” When van Susteren asked about that, Cain said, “My general counsel said this started out where she and her lawyer were demanding a huge financial settlement…I don’t remember a number…But then he said because there was no basis for this, we ended up settling for what would have been a termination settlement.” When van Susteren asked how much money was involved, Cain said. “Maybe three months’ salary. I don’t remember. It might have been two months. I do remember my general counsel saying we didn’t pay all of the money they demanded.”

Cain’s story is already changing in a major way; earlier this morning, he told Fox News he had no knowledge of any settlements:

Cain claimed he had no knowledge of any settlements. “If the restaurant association did a settlement, I was not even aware of it,” he said. “And I hope it wasn’t for much, because I was not even aware of it.”

This morning Cain got all huffy and defensive and denied knowing anything at all, even verbally attacking reporters who asked about it.

This afternoon he goes on Fox News and provides a detailed account of discussions with his attorney about keeping the cost of the settlement down.

Captain Obvious says this looks really bad.

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305 comments

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:04:55pm

“She was in my office one day, and I made a gesture saying — and I was standing close to her — and I made a gesture saying you are the same height as my wife. And ...

For his personal safety's sake, that woman better be Black, is all I can say.

Obdicut Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:07:19pm

Herman "Keep 'em Guessing" Cain.

funky chicken Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:07:40pm

So, it's gonna be Romney then? And I was on the edge of my seat.

Eh, not really.

Obdicut Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:08:03pm

I don't get the point of telling someone that they're the same height as his wife.

I've never felt the urge to tell any woman that she's the same height as my wife.

makeitstop Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:09:06pm

I'm surprised he hasn't used his go-to position - that he was joking.

Maybe he's saving that one for later.

And I'll just point out that in the first days of the Weiner scandal, conservatives were already calling for him to resign. Since conservatives are all about consistency, they should start calling for Cain to get out of the race any minute now.

HAHAHA! I crack myself up some days.

Targetpractice Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:09:18pm

So from bullshit denial to bullshit excuses in the span of a day. Color me shocked. *rolls eyes*

dragonfire1981 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:10:05pm

The sad part is that for a lot of those on the Right, this will make them more likely to vote for Cain because they are convinced the "liberal media" are going after him because they feel threatened by him.

makeitstop Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:10:11pm

re: #4 Obdicut

I don't get the point of telling someone that they're the same height as his wife.

I've never felt the urge to tell any woman that she's the same height as my wife.

I tell every woman that, even if they're not the same height as my wife. It's a good conversation starter.
//

Cankles McCellulite Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:10:19pm

I have a hard time believing that his explanation was the whole story.

dragonfire1981 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:11:10pm

"I did not have sexual conversations with that woman."

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:11:17pm

..., it's the cover-up.

darthstar Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:11:25pm

Meanwhile, in a desperate grasp for attention, Mitt Romney tries to convince people he's capable of being involved in a sex scandal.

Targetpractice Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:12:50pm

re: #11 Sergey Romanov

..., it's the cover-up.

Ayep. All he had to do was come out and say "Yes, I'm aware of the accusations, I'm aware that these women agreed to be paid in exchange for their silence, and that's all there is to this."

engineer cat Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:13:05pm

i tend to think that 5 figure payouts are not the usual corporate reaction to harassment complaints that are determined to be unfounded

restaurant association needs to tell us their part of the story

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:13:34pm

Let me guess. He said,

"Baby! That dress is so tight? You are raising Cain!"

Charles Johnson Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:14:23pm

Captain Obvious says this looks really bad. This morning Cain got all huffy and defensive and denied knowing anything at all, even verbally attacking reporters who asked. This afternoon he goes on Fox News and provides a detailed recollection of discussions with his attorney about keeping the cost of the settlement down.

Really bad.

Obdicut Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:14:36pm

re: #14 engineer dog

They may actually be legally enjoined against doing so.

For that matter, Cain's characterizations of the accusation as 'baseless' may actually be talking too much about it. Most gag agreements are mutual.

Targetpractice Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:16:27pm

re: #16 Charles

Captain Obvious says this looks really bad. This morning Cain got all huffy and defensive and denied knowing anything at all, even verbally attacking reporters who asked. This afternoon he goes on Fox News and provides a detailed recollection of discussions with his attorney about keeping the cost of the settlement down.

Really bad.

It depends on who's doing the looking. The Right's desperation to avoid nominating Romney might convince them to keep pushing the denial bit if only to keep Cain "viable."

Obdicut Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:16:57pm

re: #16 Charles

It is kind of sad that it's this, and not the arguably much, much more important campaign finance violation stuff, that gets the media all hot and bothered.

Amory Blaine Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:18:19pm

Youtube Video

wrenchwench Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:18:25pm

re: #14 engineer dog

i tend to think that 5 figure payouts are not the usual corporate reaction to harassment complaints that are determined to be unfounded

restaurant association needs to tell us their part of the story

Their chair, vice chair, and president/CEO all happen to be women at this point.

goddamnedfrank Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:19:04pm

You remind me of my wife, you both have vaginas.

windsagio Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:19:08pm

re: #19 Obdicut

It is kind of sad that it's this, and not the arguably much, much more important campaign finance violation stuff, that gets the media all hot and bothered.

Youtube Video

Charles Johnson Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:19:51pm

I wonder if he'll try the "only joking" excuse again?

"I was kidding when I said I 'was not even aware of it!' Don't you get it?"

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:19:53pm

re: #4 Obdicut

I don't get the point of telling someone that they're the same height as his wife.

I've never felt the urge to tell any woman that she's the same height as my wife.

My mom was grabbed in a store the other day by some woman who thought she had the same figure as a friend in France and wanted her to try on a blouse she was going to buy for said friend.

Charles Johnson Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:20:09pm

"You people need a sense of humor!"

windsagio Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:20:40pm

re: #24 Charles

I'm sure its on the checklist. We're just not there yet.

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:20:49pm

re: #26 Charles

"You people need a sense of humor!"

You need more humor in your life!! I know this, because you are not laughing at MY JOKES!!

goddamnedfrank Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:21:25pm

You know ... my wife's got a real purty mouth too.

Amory Blaine Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:24:03pm

re: #29 goddamnedfrank

Image: daily-mail-reader.jpg

Obdicut Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:24:55pm

re: #25 SanFranciscoZionist

See, I find that sort of behavior odd.

Amory Blaine Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:26:16pm

re: #25 SanFranciscoZionist

My mom was grabbed in a store the other day by some woman who thought she had the same figure as a friend in France and wanted her to try on a blouse she was going to buy for said friend.

Happens to me all the time. Except it's pregnancy pants. And I'm a man./

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:26:30pm

re: #31 Obdicut

See, I find that sort of behavior odd.

I've asked women for before while shopping for my wife. They were always pleased to help, and helpful.

Obdicut Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:27:01pm

re: #33 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Did you tell them that you were asking them because they reminded you of her?

erik_t Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:28:34pm

re: #31 Obdicut

It sounds dangerously helpfulfriendly-Midwestern.

Renaissance_Man Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:29:03pm

re: #34 Obdicut

Did you tell them that you were asking them because they reminded you of her?

I've asked girls to do things like that in shops before; ask what they think of a gift for sister/friend/etc because they have similar eyes/hair/height/size.

Of course, I'm always lying and trying to pick them up.

RogueOne Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:30:29pm

re: #25 SanFranciscoZionist

My mom was grabbed in a store the other day by some woman who thought she had the same figure as a friend in France and wanted her to try on a blouse she was going to buy for said friend.

Done it. For my "sister with leukemia. She's really worried about her relationship with her boyfriend and I want to get something to pick up her spirits". It worked more often than not.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:30:34pm

The flip-flopping is not good, however, I wouldn't have felt harassed by someone commenting on my height.

Then again, I'm 5'5", which is medium height for a woman, so I don't have any particularly strong feelings about my height.

Unless someone went and put the chocolate on the top shelf again.

goddamnedfrank Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:31:24pm

re: #25 SanFranciscoZionist

My mom was grabbed in a store the other day by some woman who thought she had the same figure as a friend in France and wanted her to try on a blouse she was going to buy for said friend.

That's weird, but there was at least a point to the exercise. It's different when it's a boss commenting on their employee's body. That's creepsauce.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:31:57pm

re: #34 Obdicut

I always say something like, "Shopping for my wife is very hard; she's very stylish and you seem to share her tastes."

I try not to compare size, my wife is tiny; and very stylish. I only ask women that seem to have a nice style.

Obdicut Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:32:50pm

re: #36 Renaissance_Man

I've asked girls to do things like that in shops before; ask what they think of a gift for sister/friend/etc because they have similar eyes/hair/height/size.

Of course, I'm always lying and trying to pick them up.

You lead off by mentioning your sister?

Youtube Video

Targetpractice Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:33:01pm

re: #38 EmmmieG

The flip-flopping is not good, however, I wouldn't have felt harassed by someone commenting on my height.

Then again, I'm 5'5", which is medium height for a woman, so I don't have any particularly strong feelings about my height.

Unless someone went and put the chocolate on the top shelf again.

As pointed out above, these women both got five-figure payoffs, so Cain's story is likely bullshit. It's probably something his attorney coached him into saying so as to keep the payoffs so cheap.

makeitstop Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:33:02pm

re: #9 Cankles McCellulite

I have a hard time believing that his explanation was the whole story.

I'm with you.

He's putting that out there so that his base can start whining about 'PC run amok!!'

albusteve Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:33:07pm

re: #36 Renaissance_Man

I've asked girls to do things like that in shops before; ask what they think of a gift for sister/friend/etc because they have similar eyes/hair/height/size.

Of course, I'm always lying and trying to pick them up.

just imagine what your wife's schtick is

Amory Blaine Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:33:57pm

5 figure settlement? His wife must be 3 feet tall.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:34:00pm

re: #42 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

As pointed out above, these women both got five-figure payoffs, so Cain's story is likely bullshit. It's probably something his attorney coached him into saying so as to keep the payoffs so cheap.

That's just it; there's no sexual harassment in the comment. Either it is a totally BS lawsuit, or he's lying.

Targetpractice Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:34:02pm

re: #43 makeitstop

I'm with you.

He's putting that out there so that his base can start whining about 'PC run amok!!'

His base is looking for an explanation so as to avoid looking like hypocritical jackasses when they don't demand he drop out of the race.

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:34:47pm

My name was on a sexual harassment lawsuit once. My area director had the lawsuit papers in his hand and showed them to me. There were three names on it. Thing is, before the girl sued, she wrote a letter to the company saying it was only one certain person harassing her. He was fired. I was never mentioned in that letter. Don't know what ever came of the situation. And don't care.

engineer cat Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:34:49pm

re: #43 makeitstop

I'm with you.

He's putting that out there so that his base can start whining about 'PC run amok!!'

and now that he has issued a description of the incident, does the gag agreement on the complainants still hold, or can they now give their version of the story?

Renaissance_Man Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:35:06pm

re: #41 Obdicut

You lead off by mentioning your sister?

[Video]

I have an Australian accent, I could lead off by mentioning dead gerbils and it'd still work.

RogueOne Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:36:04pm

re: #50 Renaissance_Man

I have an Australian accent, I could lead off by mentioning dead gerbils and it'd still work.

That's cheating

Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:36:07pm

re: #50 Renaissance_Man

I have an Australian accent, I could lead off by mentioning dead gerbils and it'd still work.

I have a friend with a British accent. She could read the back of the cereal box and make it sound like a dissertation.

Targetpractice Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:36:17pm

re: #46 EmmmieG

That's just it; there's no sexual harassment in the comment. Either it is a totally BS lawsuit, or he's lying.

Considering Cain, I'm leaning towards lying. My cynicism says that you don't pay somebody off for even four figures unless you're afraid a court will believe the accusations.

Obdicut Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:36:17pm

re: #50 Renaissance_Man

I have an Australian accent, I could lead off by mentioning dead gerbils and it'd still work.

Sometimes when I'm drunk I pretend to be a Hungarian cryptologist.

makeitstop Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:36:36pm

re: #49 engineer dog

and now that he has issued a description of the incident, does the gag agreement on the complainants still hold, or can they now give their version of the story?

Very good question.

Targetpractice Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:37:38pm

re: #49 engineer dog

and now that he has issued a description of the incident, does the gag agreement on the complainants still hold, or can they now give their version of the story?

I was reading an editorial earlier that stated that Cain's whole denial bit is putting him in very real danger of provoking these women to talk. What's the worst that could happen, he or the NRA will be forced to take them to court? Could he afford to have such a case going on while he's trying to make a bid for the nomination?

Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:37:41pm

The random and fleeting thought occurred to me about the Kardashian divorce--I actually care more about Lizzie Bennet and Mr. Darcy, and how they're doing, than I do any Kardashians.

wrenchwench Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:39:13pm

You're focused on the wrong part.

and I was standing close to her — and I made a gesture saying you are the same height as my wife. And I brought my hand up to my chin saying, ‘My wife comes up to my chin'.

Perhaps he moved close to her to make the point.

Obdicut Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:39:33pm

re: #53 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Nah, lots of nuisance cases do actually get settled. There's no reason to believe that just because they settled, there was actual harassment. But I really don't think he should be talking about it, giving any details, if it was settled.

I also hope there is an actual legal investigation into the various 'non-political' nonprofits that started his political career, because from where I'm sitting, they seem obviously illegal and unethical.

Renaissance_Man Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:39:45pm

re: #53 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Considering Cain, I'm leaning towards lying. My cynicism says that you don't pay somebody off for even four figures unless you're afraid a court will believe the accusations.

No, not necessarily. We mentioned this earlier, but in big business, it's solely a monetary calculus - if the cost of defending even a bogus lawsuit is greater than the cost of payoff, you pay off, unless there's another issue like precedent. Five figures is pretty small in that world. I'm not yet convinced there's much to this except Republican primary jockeying.

windsagio Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:39:53pm

re: #57 EmmmieG

Who are the Kardashians exactly? I keep hearing the name about here and there, but I don't wanna give 'em a google hit even, because it sounds like a bad scene.

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:39:57pm

re: #58 wrenchwench

You're focused on the wrong part.

Perhaps he moved close to her to make the point.

Maybe he's a "close talker" like Judge Reinhold on Seinfeld.
/

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:40:46pm

re: #50 Renaissance_Man

I have an Australian accent, I could lead off by mentioning dead gerbils and it'd still work.

FOUL! I CALL FOUL!

Targetpractice Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:40:50pm

re: #59 Obdicut

re: #60 Renaissance_Man

See, this is what I get for being late to the party. Thanks for the heads-up.

makeitstop Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:41:38pm

re: #61 windsagio

Who are the Kardashians exactly? I keep hearing the name about here and there, but I don't wanna give 'em a google hit even, because it sounds like a bad scene.

Daughters (4 of 'em) of OJ lawyer Robert Kardashian. Professional celebrities, and apparently marriers of NBA players.

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:42:18pm

re: #61 windsagio

Who are the Kardashians exactly? I keep hearing the name about here and there, but I don't wanna give 'em a google hit even, because it sounds like a bad scene.

They're father was OJ's original lawyer. They are his daughters who wear to much make-up and have fat asses.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:43:35pm

re: #66 Cannadian Club Akbar

They're father was OJ's original lawyer. They are his daughters who wear to much make-up and have fat asses.

Grammar Godwin is on the way.//

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:44:08pm

re: #67 Sergey Romanov

Shuddup.:)

Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:44:14pm

re: #66 Cannadian Club Akbar

They're father was OJ's original lawyer. They are his daughters who wear to much make-up and have fat asses.

Whereas Lizzie Bennett and Mr. Darcy are witty and intelligent Regency-era members of the English gentry.

And they have no sex tapes or naked photos, they have never DUI'ed, and have not been to rehab.

Kragar Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:44:32pm

re: #50 Renaissance_Man

I have an Australian accent, I could lead off by mentioning dead gerbils and it'd still work.

I've got a Scottish accent which only appears when I'm drunk.

darthstar Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:44:33pm

Oh, fuck...my dad is at it again...

CITIZENSHIP CASE REACHES SUPREME COURT
VERY QUIETLY OBAMA'S CITIZENSHIP CASE REACHES THE SUPREME CORT.

It sucks watching a once brilliant doctor get old.

windsagio Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:45:41pm

re: #69 EmmmieG

If there was a regency sex tape, you know you'd watch it!

('cuz face it that would be all kinds of awesome... I picture a magic lantern show)

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:45:50pm

re: #71 darthstar

The second sentence is from this old email:

[Link: www.snopes.com...]

Obdicut Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:46:00pm

re: #71 darthstar

[Link: www.snopes.com...]

You should create a script or something.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:46:04pm

re: #70 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I've got a Scottish accent which only appears when I'm PISS drunk AND IN A BRAWL.

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:46:18pm

re: #71 darthstar

Oh, fuck...my dad is at it again...

It sucks watching a once brilliant doctor get old.

FB post or an Email?

Kragar Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:46:38pm

TPM - Cain Timeline (Work in Progress)

1. Politico allegations are false. Story is crap.

2. Yes, there were allegations. But they were false.

3. Yes there were allegations that were false and I don’t know what money was paid.

4. I don’t know whether money was paid. And it would be wrong for me to find out whether money was paid because it’s confidential.

5. There was a in-depth investigation. And I was cleared. But I don’t know anything about it.

6. Here’s the gesture that led to my getting accused of harassment.

7. Okay, I remember some discussion of a settlement number.

And I thought 6 positions on abortion in 1 month was a big deal. He's gone through 7 positions in one day and we're still going!

erik_t Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:46:47pm

re: #74 Obdicut

[Link: www.snopes.com...]

You should create a script or something.

How do you think my grandmother 'gets a phone call' from me every weekend?

darthstar Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:47:04pm

re: #73 Sergey Romanov

re: #74 Obdicut

[Link: www.snopes.com...]

You should create a script or something.

I need to do something...fortunately, he's still only emailing the same 30-40 people.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:47:11pm

re: #71 darthstar

Also this:

[Link: urbanlegends.about.com...]

Send him the 2 links if you want.

reine.de.tout Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:47:14pm

re: #58 wrenchwench

You're focused on the wrong part.

Perhaps he moved close to her to make the point.

It's a pretty odd conversation to be having with an employee.

I don't recall ever having a boss who thought it was important to make the point that I was the same height/shorter than/taller than his wife.

darthstar Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:47:27pm

re: #76 Cannadian Club Akbar

FB post or an Email?

Just an email.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:47:46pm

re: #74 Obdicut

[Link: www.snopes.com...]

You should create a script or something.

10 sec :P

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:47:50pm

re: #74 Obdicut

[Link: www.snopes.com...]

You should create a script or something.

Shyt My Dad Emails

reine.de.tout Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:48:11pm

re: #66 Cannadian Club Akbar

They're father was OJ's original lawyer. They are his daughters who wear to much make-up and have fat asses.

They are paid to show up at events to get attention, like Paris Hilton is. That appears to be their sole purpose in life.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:48:20pm

re: #69 EmmmieG

My wife watches that show. (the karwhatevers)...

I've told her a hundred times, "You would hate these people if you knew them."

Kragar Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:48:41pm

re: #75 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Scottish martial arts, known as "FUCKYU!", consist mostly of profanity, kicking and rolling around on the ground

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:50:25pm

re: #83 Sergey Romanov

10 sec :P

Sergey, do you know a lot about Armenia?

makeitstop Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:50:47pm

re: #77 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

TPM - Cain Timeline (Work in Progress)

And I thought 6 positions on abortion in 1 month was a big deal. He's gone through 7 positions in one day and we're still going!

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why you want a professional organization in place while running for president.

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:51:06pm

re: #88 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Sergey, do you know a lot about Armenia?

No. But do ask if you have googleable questions.

Targetpractice Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:51:27pm

There was an emergency message on TV just now.

Apparently the bodies of the recently deceased are returning to life and attacking the living.

Think I should be worried?

Kragar Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:51:58pm

re: #89 makeitstop

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why you want a professional organization in place while running for president.

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

It does explain the run on cigarettes for a 4 block radius around his campaign offices at least.

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:52:11pm

re: #91 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

There was an emergency message on TV just now.

Apparently the bodies of the recently deceased are returning to life and attacking the living.

Think I should be worried?

/

No. You're "brain free".
///

erik_t Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:52:32pm

re: #89 makeitstop

It really oughtn't take the assistance of a professional organization to figure out that you should generally tell the truth, or if you're dead set on lying, you should go with a single lie instead of five contradictory ones.

Killgore Trout Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:53:53pm

re: #81 reine.de.tout

It's a pretty odd conversation to be having with an employee.

I don't recall ever having a boss who thought it was important to make the point that I was the same height/shorter than/taller than his wife.

You've worked in HR before. How common is it for someone to make allegations like this just to get some settlement money on their way out the door? Can you infer anything from the settlement amount, was it just cheaper for them to pay her off instead of fighting it?

rwdflynavy Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:54:23pm

re: #87 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Scottish martial arts, known as "FUCKYU!", consist mostly of profanity, kicking and rolling around on the ground

"Do you actually like Hagis?" "No, I think it is repellent in every way. In fact, I think most Scottish cuisine is based on a dare."

makeitstop Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:55:06pm

re: #94 erik_t

It really oughtn't take the assistance of a professional organization to figure out that you should generally tell the truth, or if you're dead set on lying, you should go with a single lie instead of five contradictory ones.

I think Mr. 'Don't speak unless spoken to' is so used to saying whatever he wants without being called on it, he figured he could bluff his way through this.

He probably now realizes that in the world of presidential politics, he's just another guy running from the office, and people will ask questions, especially if they smell bullshit.

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:56:46pm

re: #4 Obdicut

I don't get the point of telling someone that they're the same height as his wife.

I've never felt the urge to tell any woman that she's the same height as my wife.

When she's on her knees...

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:56:59pm

best republican primary ever

nest we'll find out that Buddy Roemer is actually a cylon

100

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:57:06pm

re: #96 rwdflynavy

SIMAAM

101

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:57:22pm

re: #90 Sergey Romanov

No. But do ask if you have googleable questions.

Lol. They first came on my radar in the late 80s, with the Azerbaijan....what do we call it - war? conflict? Then the ongoing issue of 1915 massacres/genocide, Soviet republic-hood, lots of stuff there.

Christians, but I think with more ethnic ties to Iran than the Caucasus ? Interesting.

102

windsagio Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:57:46pm

re: #95 Killgore Trout

My Dad has worked in HR for about 30 years, many of them as a VP at a middle sized health insurance company (I know, I know...) and I asked him about that.

He still wasn't willing to talk about specific cases, but he did say he didn't have any cases he knew of of specifically falsified claims.

103

A Man for all Seasons Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:58:05pm

Well we got our October surprise..Just a year too soon

104

windsagio Mon, Oct 31, 2011 2:58:09pm

re: #99 WindUpBird

best republican primary ever

nest we'll find out that Buddy Roemer is actually a cylon

That's Romney, its the Mormon connection.

105

Targetpractice Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:00:21pm

re: #99 WindUpBird

best republican primary ever

nest we'll find out that Buddy Roemer is actually a cylon

Frakin' toaster.

106

Decatur Deb Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:00:34pm

Is no one old and dirty-minded enough to see the gesture in question as an obscene boast? Think: "Up to here baby".

107

Kragar Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:00:34pm

re: #96 rwdflynavy

"Do you actually like Hagis?" "No, I think it is repellent in every way. In fact, I think most Scottish cuisine is based on a dare."

"If ye want mah body, an ya think ahm sexy, come on lassy let me know"

108

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:00:34pm

re: #95 Killgore Trout

How common is it for someone to make allegations like this just to get some settlement money on their way out the door?

Probably not very. If you've ever been put in the spot to think about filing one, you know it's no joke, or a quick way to easy cash.

109

Kragar Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:01:52pm

re: #99 WindUpBird

best republican primary ever

nest we'll find out that Buddy Roemer is actually a cylon

As John Stewart noted;

"If Romney was a color, he would be beige. If Romney were an ice cream flavor... he would be beige."

110

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:02:06pm

re: #69 EmmmieG

Whereas Lizzie Bennett and Mr. Darcy are witty and intelligent Regency-era members of the English gentry.

And they have no sex tapes or naked photos, they have never DUI'ed, and have not been to rehab.

But they are zombie-killing ninjas!

111

Kid A Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:02:10pm

How in the world as president of the organization could Cain not know? Regardless, the Right will circle the wagons and protect him with all their usual tactics, i.e. accusing the left of racism (Limbaugh pulled that one out today), every single Thomas/Hill "high-tech lynching" reference, etc. My cousin has an infatuation with Crayon Man (Perry; I call him that because all I can think of with him as president is signing bills into law with crayons) and swore, SWORE!!!! that Perry's numbers were going to go through the roof with his retarded "tax plan." Whoopsie!!!

112

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:03:56pm

re: #101 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Armenian branch of Christianity (the Apostolic Church) is fascinating in a way, I once debated whether they should be called "Orthodox Christians" or not (Orthodox not in the sense of "true", but in the sense of a Christianity type). Them being non-Chalcedonian and miaphysite, many people object calling them "Orthodox". On the other hand I've seen many self-references as "Orthodox" (and not simply in the name of the Church).

113

wrenchwench Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:05:21pm

re: #106 Decatur Deb

Is no one old and dirty-minded enough to see the gesture in question as an obscene boast? Think: "Up to here baby".

Not enough to post it...

‘My wife comes... up to my chin.’

114

Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:06:41pm

re: #110 Alouette

But they are zombie-killing ninjas!

Now they're a thousand times more interesting than the Kardashians.

These ladies are a LOT more interesting:

Vimeo

115

Decatur Deb Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:07:58pm

re: #113 wrenchwench

Not enough to post it...

Thought we'd had an attack of "the naives".

116

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:08:02pm

re: #112 Sergey Romanov

Armenian branch of Christianity (the Apostolic Church) is fascinating in a way, I once debated whether they should be called "Orthodox Christians" or not (Orthodox not in the sense of "true", but in the sense of a Christianity type). Them being non-Chalcedonian and miaphysite, many people object calling them "Orthodox". On the other hand I've seen many self-references as "Orthodox" (and not simply in the name of the Church).

Yeah, I was in a conversation about a month .5 ago about the many misuses of the word "apostolic" in the US. (This was when The Response and the New Apostolic Reformation was in the news.)

Poor Apostolic Pentecostals here lol...some of the most insular and harmless people in the world...they found themselves suddenly getting raked over the coals by people reading off of some talk2action page.

Anyway re: Armenian Apostolic Church, yes different group from Orthodoxy, but related.

117

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:09:02pm

Story one the news right now about a Church doing a October 31st thing. Not calling it Halloween, but you can come in costume (not scary stuff) and get candy.

At least they're not trying to kill all the joy of the night.

118

Decatur Deb Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:09:44pm

re: #117 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Story one the news right now about a Church doing a October 31st thing. Not calling it Halloween, but you can come in costume (not scary stuff) and get candy; all with a Christian angle.

At least they're not trying to kill all the joy of the night.

Candy Corn is a sacrament.

119

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:10:13pm

re: #117 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

re: #118 Decatur Deb

Candy Corn is a sacrament.

They're giving out hot CROSS buns!

120

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:11:09pm

re: #109 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

If he gets the nomination it's going to be milquetoast vs milquetoast.

121

Decatur Deb Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:12:44pm

We're waiting for the first urchins in Central Time. Everything is done but lighting the candles and sedating the dog.

122

OhNoZombies! Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:12:45pm

re: #1 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Heh...

123

reine.de.tout Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:13:00pm

re: #95 Killgore Trout

You've worked in HR before. How common is it for someone to make allegations like this just to get some settlement money on their way out the door? Can you infer anything from the settlement amount, was it just cheaper for them to pay her off instead of fighting it?

This sort of thing is hard to read, without more information. I do know that the conversation about his wife's height seems odd to me. Who does that with their employees? What would be the purpose of such a conversation?

It's not unheard of for a person to misunderstand a situation or fabricate a situation. But it's rare. More often than not, something happened to make the person feel uncomfortable; whether that something would rise to the level of actual harassment is another thing entirely.

Where I worked, ANY allegation such as this one would have been investigated, period. There would have been no payoff (government employer - no options for this sort of payoff). At any rate, any charge of this nature would have been thoroughly investigated. An employer (and any individual supervisor, manager, HR person) who does NOT investigate such matters leaves themselves open to being charged themselves.

124

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:13:26pm

re: #119 sattv4u2

re: #118 Decatur Deb
Not what I meant! The candy doesn't have a religious theme...

125

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:14:24pm

re: #117 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Story one the news right now about a Church doing a October 31st thing. Not calling it Halloween, but you can come in costume (not scary stuff) and get candy; all with a Christian angle.

At least they're not trying to kill all the joy of the night.

They have been doing this for decades. I went to many as a kid, with a friend whose parents were also going crankodoodle Evangelical, like mine. You had to sit through crap Christian movies like A Thief in the Night, and a sermon and lectures about how Jesus loves you even though you're a shitty person by default...then was the games and candy.

If you won the game, you got two two-handsfull dumps of candy. If you won, you got four. Lol for a couple years, we ruled the Nov 1 candy exchange market, cuz we would come home with a shopping bag full.

126

makeitstop Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:15:50pm

re: #117 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Story one the news right now about a Church doing a October 31st thing. Not calling it Halloween, but you can come in costume (not scary stuff) and get candy.

At least they're not trying to kill all the joy of the night.

I guess you missed the 'JesusWeen' link. Those guys want to drain all of the joy out of Halloween.

127

Decatur Deb Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:16:02pm

re: #125 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Mr. Pencil on final par--

128

Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:17:11pm

re: #125 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

They have been doing this for decades. I went to many as a kid, with a friend whose parents were also going crankodoodle Evangelical, like mine. You had to sit through crap Christian movies like A Thief in the Night, and a sermon and lectures about how Jesus loves you even though you're a shitty person by default...then was the games and candy.

If you won the game, you got two two-handsfull dumps of candy. If you won, you got four. Lol for a couple years, we ruled the Nov 1 candy exchange market, cuz we would come home with a shopping bag full.

Mormons skip the movie and frankly, just get to the games and candy.

We don't give out so much candy at the games--we hold a trunk or treat.

Some killjoy actually gave out toothbrushes as one of the toys this time. Surprisingly, they had a lot left at the end of the night.

129

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:17:22pm

Pictures of Hell. The next to last one is spot-on.
[Link: www.hellhappens.com...]

130

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:18:14pm

re: #127 Decatur Deb

Mr. Pencil on final par--

Yeah, lost.

131

Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:18:37pm

re: #126 makeitstop

I guess you missed the 'JesusWeen' link. Those guys want to drain all of the joy out of Halloween.

Halloween isn't about joy.

It's about having the snot scared out of you and eating candy until you puke.

Unless I missed something. Oh, yeah, that's right; it's also about confronting our deep fears and the dark corners of our society so that we can learn bravery and see that our fears were nothing much, anyway.

Or something like that.

132

makeitstop Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:19:19pm

re: #131 EmmmieG

Halloween isn't about joy.

It's about having the snot scared out of you and eating candy until you puke.

That makes me happy! :)

133

bluecheese Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:20:09pm

and just like an exclamation point on Cain's "I'm a Clown" performance today, he broke out in some weird Gospel singing deal in the middle of some press event.

Watch:

Youtube Video

134

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:20:39pm

re: #128 EmmmieG

Mormons skip the movie and frankly, just get to the games and candy.

Yeah, it all depends on the denomination. I shudder to think what crud they are making kids watch, these days. The b.s. we had to endure was bad enough.

A friend of mine lives down the street from an Episcopalian church that does a Halloween night. It's rumored by adults to be actually scary. Lol, leave it to the Episcopalians. They do know how to party, I will say that.

135

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:20:53pm

re: #125 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Oh, yeah. I was just surpised that it gave it a five minute segment on the news.

Just had my first trick or treaters. Cute little balerinas; one said, "Your house smells good."

Wanna know why they're nice to me? I GIVE OUT REGULAR SIZE CANDY BARS. Real, brand name candy bars.

None of that "2 Musketeer" or hard candy horseshit.

I'm a local hero.

136

Obdicut Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:21:19pm

re: #123 reine.de.tout

The HR person flatly denied that there was any investigation, whatever that means.

137

Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:21:32pm

re: #135 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh, yeah. I was just surpised that it gave it a five minute segment on the news.

Just had my first trick or treaters. Cute little balerinas; one said, "Your house smells good."

Wanna know why they're nice to me? I GIVE OUT REGULAR SIZE CANDY BARS. Real, brand name candy bars.

None of that "2 Musketeer" or hard candy horseshit.

I'm a local hero.

Wow. I know one house that's not getting egged tonight.

138

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:22:20pm

I thought Halloween was about burning Detroit to the ground?
/

139

wrenchwench Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:22:36pm

re: #135 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh, yeah. I was just surpised that it gave it a five minute segment on the news.

Just had my first trick or treaters. Cute little balerinas; one said, "Your house smells good."

Wanna know why they're nice to me? I GIVE OUT REGULAR SIZE CANDY BARS. Real, brand name candy bars.

None of that "2 Musketeer" or hard candy horseshit.

I'm a local hero.

Can I show up as a bike mechanic!?!?

140

Decatur Deb Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:22:45pm

re: #131 EmmmieG

Halloween isn't about joy.

It's about having the snot scared out of you and eating candy until you puke.

Unless I missed something. Oh, yeah, that's right; it's also about confronting our deep fears and the dark corners of our society so that we can learn bravery and see that our fears were nothing much, anyway.

Or something like that.

In our time and place, it also had a bit of 'moral holiday' about it with sort-of-sanctioned minor vandalism. Sort of like the old "Feast of Fools".

[Link: www.newadvent.org...]

141

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:22:45pm

re: #135 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm a local hero.

And humble!

142

makeitstop Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:22:51pm

re: #136 Obdicut

The HR person flatly denied that there was any investigation, whatever that means.

Maybe he had a reputation in the company already and they figured they didn't have to do one?

143

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:23:08pm

re: #126 makeitstop

It actually looked like they're at least making it fun.

144

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:23:12pm

OK, this is sick.

Beck did a decent thing for once and criticized gun instructor Keller, who refused to instruct Arabs, Muslims and Obama supporters.

Guess what they now say in comments at Beck's own site?

[Link: www.theblaze.com...]

145

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:24:02pm

re: #141 sattv4u2

I'm a local hero.

And humble!

My humility is my greatest feature! It's fantastic!

146

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:25:10pm

re: #145 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

My humility is my greatest feature! It's fantastic!

As long as you save me some Reeses Cups, I'll back you up in that!

147

wrenchwench Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:25:24pm

re: #133 bluecheese

and just like an exclamation point on Cain's "I'm a Clown" performance today, he broke out in some weird Gospel singing deal in the middle of some press event.

Watch:

[Video]

Somebody said he sang "Amazing Grace". I'm not familiar with the verses he sang....

148

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:25:36pm

re: #139 wrenchwench

Can I show up as a bike mechanic!?!?

A sexy bike mechanic?

149

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:26:46pm

re: #133 bluecheese

and just like an exclamation point on Cain's "I'm a Clown" performance today, he broke out in some weird Gospel singing deal in the middle of some press event.

Watch:

[Video]

Oh cripes, my mother used to sing that song. Yes, I had to accompany, feh.

I even remember the sheet music for it, which was written in shape note.

If Cain supporters continue to wonder, however, why others of us consider him to be re-enacting minstrel era black entertainment, they should watch that clip.

150

wrenchwench Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:26:47pm

re: #144 Sergey Romanov

OK, this is sick.

Beck did a decent thing for once and criticized gun instructor Keller, who refused to instruct Arabs, Muslims and Obama supporters.

Guess what they now say in comments at Beck's own site?

[Link: www.theblaze.com...]

I'm guessing; I'm not looking....

151

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:26:50pm

re: #148 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

A sexy bike mechanic?

define "sexy"!

(at my age, it's showing up with a Ricotta Cheese Pie in hand!)

152

wrenchwench Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:27:05pm

re: #148 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

A sexy bike mechanic?

No, I'm taller than your wife.

153

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:27:08pm

re: #148 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

A sexy bike mechanic?

Is there any other kind?
/

154

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:28:38pm

re: #146 sattv4u2

As long as you save me some Reeses Cups, I'll back you up in that!

Full size Reese cups, Real Snickers bars, 3 Musketeers and Baby Ruth bars.

155

bratwurst Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:29:07pm

re: #144 Sergey Romanov

OK, this is sick.

Beck did a decent thing for once and criticized gun instructor Keller, who refused to instruct Arabs, Muslims and Obama supporters.

Guess what they now say in comments at Beck's own site?

[Link: www.theblaze.com...]

I lasted about 15 seconds there before my eyes started rolling back in my head. I was disappointed to learn recently that the seemingly bright Amy Holmes has something to do with that website.

156

Kragar Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:29:20pm

re: #153 Cannadian Club Akbar

Is there any other kind?
/

ITS BICYCLE REPAIR MAN!

Youtube Video

157

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:29:51pm

re: #152 wrenchwench

No, I'm taller than your wife.

But worth the climb?

(Couldn't resist. For the harassment, I'll offer you a settlement of one candy bar of your choice.)

158

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:30:51pm

re: #154 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Full size Reese cups, YES

Real Snickers bars Feh

3 Musketeers YES

Baby Ruth YES

3 out of four t'aint bad!

159

makeitstop Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:31:06pm

re: #154 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Full size Reese cups, Real Snickers bars, 3 Musketeers and Baby Ruth bars.

We're giving out Reese cups, Snickers and Butterfingers. Yes, full bars.

It's gotten dark here already, so I'm thinking we get to keep what's in the candy bowl at this point.

160

Decatur Deb Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:31:13pm

First kids, and 4 Yorkies in costume--hope the right ones got the biscuits.

161

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:31:35pm

re: #160 Decatur Deb

First kids, and 4 Yorkies in costume--hope the right ones got the biscuits.

Which one(s) bit you?

162

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:31:57pm

re: #150 wrenchwench

You would guess right. E.g.:

saying “there are good muslims” is like saying “there are good cancers ”

163

Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:32:05pm

re: #159 makeitstop

We're giving out Reese cups, Snickers and Butterfingers. Yes, full bars.

It's gotten dark here already, so I'm thinking we get to keep what's in the candy bowl at this point.

I give out 200 pieces of candy a night.

We stick with the fun size ones, but I do give out Hershey's and Nestle's.

Why do they make Bit O Honey? Is it some dark conspiracy?

164

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:33:03pm

re: #163 EmmmieG

I give out 200 pieces of candy a night.

We stick with the fun size ones, but I do give out Hershey's and Nestle's.

Why do they make Bit O Honey? Is it some dark conspiracy?

Every night, or just Halloween!!?!?!

((if it's every night, I want to be a dentist in your neighborhood))

165

wrenchwench Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:33:05pm

re: #157 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

But worth the climb?

(Couldn't resist. For the harassment, I'll offer you a settlement of one candy bar of your choice.)

In the location of my choice?

166

Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:33:06pm

re: #160 Decatur Deb

First kids, and 4 Yorkies in costume--hope the right ones got the biscuits.

Please tell me that the Yorkies were with a group of kids. Please tell me that grown adults were not taking their dogs trick or treating?

167

makeitstop Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:33:32pm

re: #163 EmmmieG

Why do they make Bit O Honey? Is it some dark conspiracy?

Yes, and dentists are behind it.

The only time I ate a Bit O'Honey, I pulled a filling out of one tooth, then cracked another tooth biting down on the filling.

168

Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:33:36pm

re: #164 sattv4u2

Every night, or just Halloween!!?!?!

((if it's every night, I want to be a dentist in your neighborhood))

hahahaha

Halloween. Busy neighborhood.

169

Kid A Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:33:58pm

re: #150 wrenchwench

I'm guessing; I'm not looking...

1.) well Glenn you always say to do the research and make up our own minds.
Looks like the majority sides with Mr Keller on this issue.
hard to judge someones“ individual merit and character” especially when they think its okay to LIE to non islamest’s and they are already sitting in your classroom with a weapon….your way off on this one…..maybe you ought to leave the Gun training to the professionals.

2.)

Normally I love what Glenn has to say, but he’s missing the point. The Consitution gives us the right to “bear arms”, not to be taught how to use them. This gentleman, while he may not win much new business with his statements, has every right to teach WHOMEVER HE WANTS TO and refuse WHOMEVER HE WANTS TO. Is Glenn seriously wanting the government to step in and control this man’s business?

3.)

What ever happened to those signs that said, “WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO REFUSE SERVICE TO ANYONE”.

Yeah well, if flight and airline pilot instructors did the same thing as this man, 3000 lives would have not perished and the Twin Towers might still be there.

I think Beck is taking the wrong angle here. Unless I missed something in the article, I don’t see racism in this. This man has just identified our enemies and chooses not to aid and abet them.

Did Beck wake up on the politically correct side of the bed, or what?

4.)

As usual you are smokin drugs, Islam conquered western lands, The Euro’s tried to take it back. We have been fighting them since their inception. The only peace christians had under Muslim rule was akin to being slaves. They had to pay higher taxes, and their voice didn’t count in court proceedings.

170

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:34:20pm

re: #147 wrenchwench

Somebody said he sang "Amazing Grace". I'm not familiar with the verses he sang...

"He Looked Beyond My Fault (and Saw My Need)"

Set by Dottie Rambo, something of a dynastic queen in Evangelical music, to the traditional tune commonly associated with "Danny Boy".

[Link: bit.ly...]

It's a dogwhistle.

171

justaminute Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:34:37pm

If you were running for President of the United States wouldn't you take a good hard look at your own background for things that could be used against you? I would certainly prepare responses for answers to those questions that would result in me not having to change my answers multiple times in one day. He should let his campaign manager go.

172

Killgore Trout Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:35:57pm

re: #138 Cannadian Club Akbar

I thought Halloween was about burning Detroit to the ground?
/

Mission accomplished.

173

Decatur Deb Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:36:04pm

re: #161 sattv4u2

Which one(s) bit you?

Our dog got too excited--he's in the back for the duration. Don't want a Yorkie lodged in his throat.

174

Kragar Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:36:08pm

‘Sovereign Citizens’ Guru Sentenced to Nearly Five Years in Scam

A Las Vegas federal judge yesterday sentenced influential “sovereign citizen” Samuel Lynn Davis of Idaho to 57 months in prison for his role in a $1.3 trillion money laundering scheme, the Las Vegas Review-Journal reports.

175

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:36:31pm

re: #171 justaminute

If you were running for President of the United States wouldn't you take a good hard look at your own background for things that could be used against you?

Not if you're punking America and the dumb bigots in the GOP.

^that is me, pipe-dreaming, again

176

Decatur Deb Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:36:39pm

re: #166 EmmmieG

Please tell me that the Yorkies were with a group of kids. Please tell me that grown adults were not taking their dogs trick or treating?

Sorry 'bout that.

177

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:37:20pm

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

My dog's costume tonight.

178

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:38:02pm

re: #177 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

My dog's costume tonight.

And you wonder why he bites you.

179

bratwurst Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:38:28pm

re: #171 justaminute

He should let his campaign manager go.

Offer him a pack of nicotine gum as a parting gift!

180

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:39:03pm

re: #178 Cannadian Club Akbar

He's a freakin' Globetrotter, man!

181

goddamnedfrank Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:39:28pm

re: #171 justaminute

He should let his campaign manager go.

Sir Smokes-A-Lot?

182

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:39:39pm

Michael61
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 11:19am
What about refusing to teach Muslims to take off and to fly the plane but not to land it?

I would teach them to shoot but report them to FBI first, just in case. I don’t like snitches in general, but have to make an exception in case of Muslims.

183

Obdicut Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:40:40pm

re: #171 justaminute

If you were running for President of the United States wouldn't you take a good hard look at your own background for things that could be used against you? I would certainly prepare responses for answers to those questions that would result in me not having to change my answers multiple times in one day. He should let his campaign manager go.

That's what weirded me out about Edwards. He was running for president. He had to know his secret would come out. How did he manage to convince himself otherwise?

184

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:41:25pm

re: #183 Obdicut

That's what weirded me out about Edwards. He was running for president. He had to know his secret would come out. How did he manage to convince himself otherwise?

I think Edwards might have thought he would be in the VP office before everything went nuts.

185

Obdicut Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:41:44pm

re: #182 Sergey Romanov

I'm sure we can find a million insane comments at Beck's place, but what does it really show? They're just anonymous people on a website. I think the gun store owner's actual program is a lot more indicative of the anti-Muslim paranoia in the US than the random commenters are.

186

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:41:54pm

re: #180 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

He's a freakin' Globetrotter, man!

Looks more like a Poopdropper!

187

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:42:44pm

re: #183 Obdicut

That's what weirded me out about Edwards. He was running for president. He had to know his secret would come out. How did he manage to convince himself otherwise?

pure unadulterated 100% chutzpah!

(not unlike many politicians, regardless of stripe)

188

Obdicut Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:42:52pm

re: #184 Cannadian Club Akbar

I don't get what you win if you manage to get to the VP and then be embroiled in a massive scandal.

On the other hand, Guliani managed to go through some weird personal crap while mayor, but on the other hand, that's New York, and people here both enjoy a good scandal and could really give a shit.

189

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:43:59pm

re: #185 Obdicut

I'm sure we can find a million insane comments at Beck's place, but what does it really show? They're just anonymous people on a website. I think the gun store owner's actual program is a lot more indicative of the anti-Muslim paranoia in the US than the random commenters are.

Beck has a specific contingent. 90-95% of comments there are bigoted. That tells us something about Beck's contingent.

190

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:44:25pm

We have a Dallas Cowboys flag. Some little fucker just asked me if he could still have candy since he's an Eagles fan.

He got extra. That took guts.

191

Martinsmithy Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:44:49pm

I have to wonder if these allegations will actually enhance Cain's status in the Republican party.

There are a lot of truly crazy people in that camp these days.

192

Decatur Deb Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:45:24pm

re: #180 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Had me confused until I went back and clicked through. Dogs have little shame.

193

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:46:11pm

re: #188 Obdicut

Edwards would have had to been removed from the job, right? I don't think that would have happened, honestly.

194

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:47:01pm

re: #190 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

We have a Dallas Cowboys flag. Some little fucker just asked me if he could still have candy since he's an Eagles fan.

He got extra. That took guts.

Yea. And right now he's pissing in your bushes.
/

195

Killgore Trout Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:48:53pm

re: #191 Martinsmithy

I have to wonder if these allegations will actually enhance Cain's status in the Republican party.

There are a lot of truly crazy people in that camp these days.

I checked the wingnuts at Hot Air, they don't seem worried by this.

196

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:49:21pm

re: #194 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yea. And right now he's pissing in your bushes.
/

It's prolly the same bush FBV pees in!

197

justaminute Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:49:29pm

Most of the comments I've seen on other threads blame the Democrats for the Politico story on Cain. Don't they think we might hold this info close to our chest just in case Cain wins the nomination? Like 2 or 3 days before the general?

198

funky chicken Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:50:09pm

re: #26 Charles

"You people need a sense of humor!"

It's amazing how many smart, successful men still can't deal with having professional relationships with women.

199

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:50:18pm

re: #191 Martinsmithy

I have to wonder if these allegations will actually enhance Cain's status in the Republican party.

There are a lot of truly crazy people in that camp these days.

That's entirely possible, though it could really only happen if the accuser is black. Not like conservatives like that give a damn when any woman of any stripe is sexually harassed, but if either accuser is white, it's curtains for his campaign.

200

Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:51:04pm

re: #193 Cannadian Club Akbar

Edwards would have had to been removed from the job, right? I don't think that would have happened, honestly.

More likely it would have come out during the election, which was the real risk he was taking.

201

Wozza Matter? Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:53:06pm

I hope you get a visit from the Great Pumpkin

Youtube Video

202

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:54:35pm

Trick or ...

203

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:55:34pm

re: #198 funky chicken

It's amazing how many smart, successful men still can't deal with having professional relationships with women.

I'm still amazed how many smart, successful men say stupid things after the skirts have left the room.

204

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:57:18pm

re: #203 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm still amazed how many smart, successful men say stupid things after the skirts have left the room.

You don't want to hear what the same types say right to the skirts' faces, then.

205

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:58:21pm

Pumpkin gone mad!!!

Youtube Video

206

reine.de.tout Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:58:32pm

re: #136 Obdicut

The HR person flatly denied that there was any investigation, whatever that means.

It means there was some agreement between the employer and the employee and they felt no investigation was needed.

If I were innocent? I would have wanted a full-fledged investigation. Period.

I really cannot imagine that an employee would give up the security of a job for a cash settlement that is NOT going to provide for the future. Seriously, weird.

207

OhNoZombies! Mon, Oct 31, 2011 3:59:03pm

re: #199 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Clarance Thomas better thank his lucky stars...
{{sigh}}

208

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:01:13pm

re: #121 Decatur Deb

We're waiting for the first urchins in Central Time. Everything is done but lighting the candles and sedating the dog.

TIME URCHINS! FLEE INTO THE CHRONOVERSE

209

reine.de.tout Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:02:40pm

re: #206 reine.de.tout

It means there was some agreement between the employer and the employee and they felt no investigation was needed.

If I were innocent? I would have wanted a full-fledged investigation. Period.

I really cannot imagine that an employee would give up the security of a job for a cash settlement that is NOT going to provide for the future. Seriously, weird.

So in other words, my suspicion (and it's mine only) is that something happened to make the employee feel uncomfortable. Whether real, or imagined, we'll never know. There was no investigation.

Here's what else I know, from personal experience: There are men in the workplace who are very very good at making women uncomfortable without ever doing something so overt that it would reflect badly on them. A motion of the arm during a conversation, and the hand just happens to touch a breast? And it happens every time? The guy can plausibly say it was an "accident". But the woman knows full well it wasn't.

210

reine.de.tout Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:05:17pm

re: #203 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm still amazed how many smart, successful men say stupid things after the skirts have left the room.

I'm sputtering here, because yes, you're right.
But you know what? Word gets out. It always does.

211

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:05:27pm

re: #206 reine.de.tout

My name almost ended up on a EEOC complaint (race) once. They brought it to my attention. I told my side of the story.

It was after a lady had been fired; she brought it up.

I went to the same mostly black high school she did. After finding out we grew up pretty close to each other (her ten years younger than me) and that I had gone to her schools all the way through, she made a joke that "You are pretty much a brother then."

I kind of did a gangsta arm fold thing. She laughed.

When she got fired (missed three weeks out of her first month) she thought she'd increase the value of her parachute.

It had a big hole in it.

212

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:06:24pm

re: #204 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Honestly? I can't imagine. I know the thoughts that go through my head, but I have a filter.

213

justaminute Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:06:46pm

re: #206 reine.de.tout

It means there was some agreement between the employer and the employee and they felt no investigation was needed.

If I were innocent? I would have wanted a full-fledged investigation. Period.

I really cannot imagine that an employee would give up the security of a job for a cash settlement that is NOT going to provide for the future. Seriously, weird.

It is funny. My daughter graduates this semester with a degree in HR. Investigation of the complaint is first thing that should have been conducted. She said that is probably why they say the real working world is not like what you learn in college, but it is hard to believe they would throw out the first rule.

214

reine.de.tout Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:07:44pm

re: #211 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

My name almost ended up on a EEOC complaint (RACE) once. They brought it to my attention. I told my side of the story.

It was after a lady had been fired; she brought it up.

I went to the same mostly black high school she did. After finding out we grew up pretty close to each other (her ten years younger than me) and that I had gone to her schools all the way through, she made a joke that "You are pretty much a brother then."

I kind of did a gangsta arm fold thing. She laughed.

When she got fired (missed three weeks out of her first month) she thought she'd increase the value of her parachute.

It had a big hole in it.

THIS case is obvious - she missed a lot of work, got fired for it and yes, decided she would try to increase the value of her parachute.

I have a friend right now whose niece is facing a similar "investigation" because of a charge by an employee. I told the niece not to worry, and in fact, embrace the investigation because things that are silly on their face will be crystal clear.

Which is why, if I were innocent of anything? I would want a full investigation.

215

Lidane Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:07:55pm

Tick tock tick tock. You can set your watch by it:

I just sent Herman another cash settlement today!
Go Mr. Herman Cain! Every time Politico or any one puts out a
hit piece on Herman, I will send in extra cash.
---

He added what his counsel said to what he said. I don’t think he’s changing his story. His counsel reminded him of what happened.
---

This in nothing more than a Witch Hunt orchestrated by Romney and Perry operatives.
---

I thought Cain was putting together a really savvy political team. Surely someone is there to guide him through this mess.
---

Damn. I just now bought a Cain bumper sticker and yard sign. I’m not ready to trash them, but he has GOT to figure out an effective strategy, especially since he knows he’s in for a lynching by the left.
---

It's not the left, it's the Romney campaign. Oh..... wait a minute, you're right. Never mind.
---

You know, I am Herman’s age, and I can not remember what I had for breakfast yesterday. If you asked me details of me getting grilled by the boss, there is no way I would remember 15 years back. Wait till you get in your 60’s.

Memory is the 2nd thing that goes! And I can not rememeber what was the 1st.
---

Indeed he does need better “damage control”.

The article I found is a long one, and I’m not an accountant or federal election expert by any means, however, I get the feeling that may be a more serious issue than this current kerfuffle.
---

I think this was probably orchestrated by Obama, who would naturally hate a REAL “African American” opposing him. Even though it’s pretty unlikely that Cain would have been the candidate, Obama is a vindictive, spiteful individual.

That said, Cain has handled this so badly that he has shown he’s not ready for prime time. He knew about it weeks ago, and he still doesn’t have a firm reply or isn’t certain what he did???
---

Apparently, everybody knew it was coming, including Cain. That said, I honestly don’t think this was launched by a GOPer, because it could always be turned against them if the Dems discovered it. To me, it screams OBAMA.

There’s a level of personal spitefulness here that I think is typical of him.
---

Generally speaking, I would guess that only those who were already anti-Cain will use this story to buttress their positions. Most of that group on this site appear to be either Perry or Romney supporters.
One of the things that I like about Cain is that he realizes that his real opponent is Obama.
---

It sounds a lot more like Cain and the National Restaurant Association was held up by a couple of shrews looking for some easy money than he groped someone.
That sort of thing happened a lot in the '90s.
---

It doesn't bother me in the least. I remember how they tried to lynch Clarence Thomas...Can't have those leaving the plantation now can we....Anita Hill was just a lying shill for the NOW gang...
You can say to a woman, "you really look great in that dress" and to some dumb broad, instead of saying 'thanks' she thinks she is being harassed.
---

This isn't the first time. He "walks things back" a lot.
That's bad.

He's got to stop doing that.

He's killing himself.

This so-called allegation is a pile of stinking BS.

But he's turning it into anti-Cain gold. All by himself.

216

reine.de.tout Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:09:03pm

re: #213 justaminute

It is funny. My daughter graduates this semester with a degree in HR. Investigation of the complaint is first thing that should have been conducted. She said that is probably why they say the real working world is not like what you learn in college, but it is hard to believe they would throw out the first rule.

Absolutely, investigation of the complaint should have begun immediately. I'm aghast their HR office didn't do one, even a small one. The facts would have been on record, then, and there would be no need for any guessing.

217

justaminute Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:12:32pm

re: #216 reine.de.tout

Absolutely, investigation of the complaint should have begun immediately. I'm aghast their HR office didn't do one, even a small one. The facts would have been on record, then, and there would be no need for any guessing.

Will it be that much of a surprise that we will find out later that not having an investigation is not the truth? It's just to ridiculous. Especially since there has been 2 complaints.

218

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:14:30pm

re: #214 reine.de.tout

Which is why, if I were innocent of anything? I would want a full investigation.

That's for damn sure.

I was furious and would have gone anywhere and done anything to clear my name if she had decided to pursue it.

I'm am much, much more likely to get in trouble regarding sex things than race things. Only because there are so many hot chicks...
/

219

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:15:14pm

re: #212 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Honestly? I can't imagine.

I doubt it's any different from what they say behind our backs.

220

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:16:42pm

re: #218 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm am much, much more likely to get in trouble regarding sex things than race things. Only because there are so many hot chicks...
/

Often, the two are inseparable.

221

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:17:02pm

re: #219 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Believe me... for me? Only behind the back. And to myself.

222

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:19:24pm

re: #214 reine.de.tout

Which is why, if I were innocent of anything? I would want a full investigation.re: #218 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That's for damn sure.

OTOH,,,, a large organization such as that,,, why shine light on something that may or may not have happened IF the complaintees were brought into an office, told that

if you pursue this (legally) it will take you years in court and tens of thousands of dollars with no gauruntee of winning ,SO,, here's a check for $XX,XXX.00 and if you sign this non disclosure statement it's done today!

223

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:19:59pm

re: #221 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Believe me... for me? Only behind the back. And to myself.

I've noticed that when workplace men think they are hiding that kind of thing they are actually quite overt.

Unless one ever makes it my problem, that's their problem. I think their self-made dilemmas around race/gender/sexuality in the workplace are kind of funny, tbf.

224

reine.de.tout Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:20:26pm

re: #217 justaminute

Will it be that much of a surprise that we will find out later that not having an investigation is not the truth? It's just to ridiculous. Especially since there has been 2 complaints.

It's hard to know what really happened because again, there was no investigation.

But the fact that there wasn't is odd to me.

225

prairiefire Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:22:50pm

re: #57 EmmmieG

The random and fleeting thought occurred to me about the Kardashian divorce--I actually care more about Lizzie Bennet and Mr. Darcy, and how they're doing, than I do any Kardashians.

Austen porn: the final scene in the Kiera Knightly movie when Darcy says "Mrs. Darcy, Mrs. Darcy, Mrs. Darcy."

226

reine.de.tout Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:24:34pm

re: #222 sattv4u2

Which is why, if I were innocent of anything? I would want a full investigation.re: #218 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That's for damn sure.

OTOH,,, a large organization such as that,,, why shine light on something that may or may not have happened IF the complaintees were brought into an office, told that

There doesn't have to be a court proceeding. The thing could go to the EEOC; or even an internal investigation; neither costs the employee a dime. It may take some time, though, as you say.

The organization didn't want to do an investigation. That's how I see it.

227

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:25:21pm

re: #222 sattv4u2

OTOH,,, a large organization such as that,,, why shine light on something that may or may not have happened IF the complaintees were brought into an office, told that ...

That's not always a deterrent. Sometimes it's worth it to keep the club mentality. Something similar happened to a friend of mine who was at the time VP level at a very well-known media concern.

For her, it wasn't sexual harassment but gender and age discrimination, a pretty classic case of it, and she's not the type to file complaints.

I do expect age discrimination filings by men in the coming years -- I have a friend who could possibly have a case if he wanted to pursue it, but I doubt he will. I hope someone does, soon. It's unacceptable.

228

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:29:14pm

re: #227 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

That's not always a deterrent. Sometimes it's worth it to keep the club mentality. Something similar happened to a friend of mine who was at the time VP level at a very well-known media concern.

For her, it wasn't sexual harassment but gender and age discrimination, a pretty classic case of it, and she's not the type to file complaints.

I do expect age discrimination filings by men in the coming years -- I have a friend who could possibly have a case if he wanted to pursue it, but I doubt he will. I hope someone does, soon. It's unacceptable.

hey,, I'm near the end of my shelf life (workwise) and I must say, if I were to get laid off or let go tomorrow, I don't see why someone would hire me knowing that within 5 years I'd most likely be walking (retired)

So, no, I wouldn't see myself pursuing an age discrimination thing because I understand!

229

Obdicut Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:30:16pm

re: #228 sattv4u2

As opposed to a younger employee who might just leave for another job?

Think it through.

230

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:30:51pm

re: #229 Obdicut

As opposed to a younger employee who might just leave for another job?

Think it through.

I have

Yes, the younger one MIGHT leave in that timeframe

But I WILL!

231

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:31:01pm

re: #228 sattv4u2

hey,, I'm near the end of my shelf life (workwise) and I must say, if I were to get laid off or let go tomorrow, I don't see why someone would hire me knowing that within 5 years I'd most likely be walking (retired)

So, no, I wouldn't see myself pursuing an age discrimination thing because I understand!

I'm not talking about people getting ready to retire, I'm talking about people in their 40s and 50s.

232

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:31:46pm

re: #231 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I'm not talking about people getting ready to retire, I'm talking about people in their 40s and 50s.

Thanks for the clarification, and yes, 40-50 would be different

233

Obdicut Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:32:01pm

re: #230 sattv4u2

Sorry, I believed you when you said you would most likely be retired. My mistake for thinking you actually wrote what you meant.

234

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:32:48pm

re: #230 sattv4u2

I have

Yes, the younger one MIGHT leave in that timeframe

But I WILL!

Well, that's you. Retirement age is probably going to go up, anyway. This issue is not going away.

235

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:32:57pm

re: #233 Obdicut

Sorry, I believed you when you said you would most likely be retired. My mistake for thinking you actually wrote what you meant.

No,, what I did say that in 5 years I WILL be retiring

236

justaminute Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:34:23pm

re: #228 sattv4u2

That gives rise to the old saying about lawsuits: The ones that should never do and the ones that shouldn't always do.

Maybe you should rethink your position. Five years of wages is a considerable sum to forfeit.

237

Obdicut Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:34:36pm

re: #235 sattv4u2

No,, what I did say that in 5 years I WILL be retiring

Nope.

I don't see why someone would hire me knowing that within 5 years I'd most likely be walking (retired

Forget what you wrote? You could reread it.

238

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:35:21pm

re: #236 justaminute

That gives rise to the old saying about lawsuits: The ones that should never do and the ones that shouldn't always do.

Maybe you should rethink your position. Five years of wages is a considerable sum to forfeit.

Especially if he's 60 and the retirement age goes up to 67.

239

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:35:34pm

re: #237 Obdicut

Nope.

Forget what you wrote? You could reread it.

, if I were to get laid off or let go tomorrow, I don't see why someone would hire me knowing that within 5 years

Nope ,.,it all goes together,,, NOT just the snippet you glommed onto

240

albusteve Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:36:51pm

re: #237 Obdicut

Nope.

Forget what you wrote? You could reread it.

what a poodle

241

Obdicut Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:37:01pm

re: #239 sattv4u2

That makes no sense. You said that within five years, you'd most likely be retired. Not that you would be retired. The context doesn't change it at all.

What a weird thing to pretend you didn't say.

242

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:38:01pm

re: #38 EmmmieG

The flip-flopping is not good, however, I wouldn't have felt harassed by someone commenting on my height.

Then again, I'm 5'5", which is medium height for a woman, so I don't have any particularly strong feelings about my height.

Unless someone went and put the chocolate on the top shelf again.

I think that, if this is the incident in question, he may be, er, abbreviating this.

"You're, like, about my wife's height," is not harassment. Making a big deal out of it, repeating it, making eye contact as though this is really significant, can easily start to get there.

243

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:38:28pm

re: #239 sattv4u2

, if I were to get laid off or let go tomorrow, I don't see why someone would hire me knowing that within 5 years

Nope ,.,it all goes together,,, NOT just the snippet you glommed onto

Do you feel a company has a right to discriminate against you based solely on age rather than the merit you would bring to that company?

Shouldn't you be able to compete with younger applicants with less experience without having to worry about whether a co. will even accept your application?

I hope you answer no, and yes.

244

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:39:13pm

re: #241 Obdicut

That makes no sense. You said that within five years, you'd most likely be retired. Not that you would be retired. The context doesn't change it at all.

What a weird thing to pretend you didn't say.

And what an odd way to interpret what I said

I am 5 years from retirement
I get laid off tomorrow
Why would someone hire me KNOWING that AT MOST I'm giving them 5 years

245

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:40:45pm

re: #244 sattv4u2

And what an odd way to interpret what I said

I am 5 years from retirement
I get laid off tomorrow
Why would someone hire me KNOWING that AT MOST I'm giving them 5 years

Because you're the best applicant for the job, and companies aren't in the business of guaranteeing job security, anyway?

246

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:41:19pm

re: #243 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Do you feel a company has a right to discriminate against you based solely on age rather than the merit you would bring to that company?

Shouldn't you be able to compete with younger applicants with less experience without having to worry about whether a co. will even accept your application?

I hope you answer no, and yes.

#1) NO

BUT,, as stated in 244, I can understand why they wouldn't want to invest time and money in me KNOWING thatb in 5 years they'll ahve to do it all over again with someone else

#2) YES

((doesn't change #1, however)

247

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:42:24pm

re: #245 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Because you're the best applicant for the job, and companies aren't in the business of guaranteeing job security, anyway?

That right there is THE "saving grace"'

Many companies (fortunately) still do look at that. The one I currently work for, as example

248

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:43:21pm

re: #61 windsagio

Who are the Kardashians exactly? I keep hearing the name about here and there, but I don't wanna give 'em a google hit even, because it sounds like a bad scene.

Think Paris Hilton, but smarter, and Armenian, so prettier.

249

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:43:49pm

re: #241 Obdicut

You said that within five years, you'd most likely be retired. Not that you would be retired

Parse much?

So ,, it may be 5 years and 4 months

Maybe 4 years and 8 months,,,

OR ,,,

jeez Luoise

250

Obdicut Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:43:53pm

re: #244 sattv4u2

I'm sorry, I can't help you realize how unclear you were in any other way. You said you'd be most likely be walking within five years. I understand that you meant that you would be, not most likely be, retiring within five years. You could have said that. You didn't.

Not my problem.

251

reine.de.tout Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:44:21pm

re: #244 sattv4u2

And what an odd way to interpret what I said

I am 5 years from retirement
I get laid off tomorrow
Why would someone hire me KNOWING that AT MOST I'm giving them 5 years

Satt - any employer should know that an older employee is going to USUALLY be more dependable than younger employees. There are plenty of reasons why employers look for older employees rather than younger ones. Where I worked, we had a certain set of jobs where we knew, right off the bat, that if the person we found was older, they would stay at the job and be more dependable than a younger person. I'm not saying we did any reverse age-discrimination, we didn't. But we actively recruited at places like Displaced Homemakers (usually older, recently divorced ladies).

252

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:44:30pm

re: #250 Obdicut

see 249,,, yes,,, it is "your" problem

253

Obdicut Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:44:39pm

re: #249 sattv4u2

Sorry, didn't see that before I posted. Thanks for agreeing I was wright. No big deal, glad you figured it out in the end.

254

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:44:51pm

re: #246 sattv4u2

#1) NO

BUT,, as stated in 244, I can understand why they wouldn't want to invest time and money in me KNOWING thatb in 5 years they'll ahve to do it all over again with someone else

There is no guarantee they won't have to with anyone younger, either.

So they hire the next best person, but she gets diagnosed with some catastrophic illness 6 mos later.

No guarantees come with any employee and you can't know anything 5 years in advance...they shoulda hired you instead of writing you off due to perceptions about your age.

255

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:45:02pm

re: #66 Cannadian Club Akbar

They're father was OJ's original lawyer. They are his daughters who wear to much make-up and have fat asses.

I think their asses are very nice.

256

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:45:25pm

re: #253 Obdicut

Sorry, didn't see that before I posted. Thanks for agreeing I was wright. No big deal, glad you figured it out in the end.

How were you "wright"

(whatever that means)

(( or did you mean right,,, or write,,, or ,,???)

257

goddamnedfrank Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:45:40pm

re: #244 sattv4u2

And what an odd way to interpret what I said

I am 5 years from retirement
I get laid off tomorrow
Why would someone hire me KNOWING that AT MOST I'm giving them 5 years

How would they know that unless you tell them? They can't ask your age in an interview. Your financial picture might change and you might decide not to since there's no mandatory retirement age in the US.

258

prairiefire Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:46:11pm

re: #242 SanFranciscoZionist

I think that, if this is the incident in question, he may be, er, abbreviating this.

"You're, like, about my wife's height," is not harassment. Making a big deal out of it, repeating it, making eye contact as though this is really significant, can easily start to get there.

I'm thinking then he made like he was going to grab her hips.

259

Obdicut Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:47:12pm

re: #256 sattv4u2

Yes, I meant right. Thank you for correcting me.

Is five years and four months 'within five years'?

260

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:47:36pm

re: #257 goddamnedfrank

How would they know that unless you tell them? They can't ask your age in an interview. Your financial picture might change and you might decide not to since there's no mandatory retirement age in the US.

All true, but it's pretty obvious that I'm not a "young man" and even though they can't ask my age they can request a resume, which shows work experience

261

reine.de.tout Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:48:06pm

re: #258 prairiefire

I'm thinking then he made like he was going to grab her hips.

OR, he was standing close and as he made the motions, his hand "accidentally happened" to brush against her body.

Sorry, this is a particular bugaboo for me since I worked with a man who did this, repeatedly, and with every woman at the place; so we knew it was no accident, but if somebody made a complaint, he could very plausibly say it was. Hated the guy.

262

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:49:09pm

re: #117 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Story one the news right now about a Church doing a October 31st thing. Not calling it Halloween, but you can come in costume (not scary stuff) and get candy.

At least they're not trying to kill all the joy of the night.

Lots of churches have Halloween stuff these days, especially since parents in a lot of places are less comfortable with going door to door. Some call it the church Halloween party, others who have theological concerns call it a Harvest Festival, or Costume Night or similar.

Then there are the creators of Jesusween.

263

reine.de.tout Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:49:21pm

re: #260 sattv4u2

All true, but it's pretty obvious that I'm not a "young man" and even though they can't ask my age they can request a resume, which shows work experience

Also shows what year you started working; possibly what year you graduated HS and/or college . . . These are what we call "clues".

264

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:49:23pm

re: #119 sattv4u2

re: #118 Decatur Deb

They're giving out hot CROSS buns!

Different holiday.

265

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:49:46pm

re: #258 prairiefire

I'm thinking then he made like he was going to grab her hips.

Had that happen (waist) from a real confederate of a CTO. These things have nothing to do with attraction or even sex. It's just flat-out aggression. They've been told it's their right and they intend to exercise it.

266

Obdicut Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:49:49pm

re: #251 reine.de.tout

Google has actually started to hire more older workers now precisely because of this-- they used to almost exclusively hire workers from the 'just graduated' crowd, partially because they can control costs on them better, but they lose a lot of productivity because of that-- a lot of projects that just went nowhere.

267

Stanghazi Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:50:53pm

re: #258 prairiefire

I'm thinking then he made like he was going to grab her hips.

YEP

268

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:52:14pm

re: #129 Cannadian Club Akbar

Pictures of Hell. The next to last one is spot-on.
[Link: www.hellhappens.com...]

I'm more interested in the fact that one of the links on their sidebar is titled "Plan to Bring Jesus Back".

I'm interested that this can apparently be done by committee.

269

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:52:24pm

re: #259 Obdicut

Yes, I meant right. Thank you for correcting me.

Is five years and four months 'within five years'?

Yes, actually

5 years from now is 2016

I will be retiring then!! ((gee,,, New Years Eve of 2016 is 5 years and 2 months from now)

So thats within 5 years!

270

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:52:35pm

re: #260 sattv4u2

All true, but it's pretty obvious that I'm not a "young man" and even though they can't ask my age they can request a resume, which shows work experience

Work experience that comes with age, real or perceived, should not be a disqualification.

I get that you think it's fine if it was ever to become one, but I hear self-loathing in that.

271

Obdicut Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:54:19pm

re: #269 sattv4u2

Wow.

You kind of remind me of the guy with ketchup on his face who refuses to wipe it off.

"It's there for a reason!"

272

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:54:32pm

re: #270 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Work experience that comes with age, real or perceived, should not be a disqualification.

I get that you think it's fine if it was ever to become one, but I hear self-loathing in that.

Don't ,, I'm just being a realist

Just as not having experience can be a detriment to the hiring process,,, just as being very young (and therefore limited maturity in some cases) can be, so can being close to retirement age

273

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:56:22pm

re: #271 Obdicut

Wow.

You kind of remind me of the guy with ketchup on his face who refuses to wipe it off.

"It's there for a reason!"

Wow ,,, you kind of remind me of the guy that sticks to his literal guns even in a world where generalities are accepted, JUST to try for a GOTCHYA moment

Why is that about you? Are you felling pressured to win for some reason?

274

reine.de.tout Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:56:43pm

re: #272 sattv4u2

Don't ,, I'm just being a realist

Just as not having experience can be a detriment to the hiring process,,, just as being very young (and therefore limited maturity in some cases) can be, so can being close to retirement age

Can be, exactly, for some companies.

Also, some experienced employees are hesitant to go after entry level jobs with a new employer, usually at reduced pay from what their previous job was paying them; instead, they make demands they come in at higher than an entry level job and/or pay. This is a mistake on the part of the employee.

275

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:57:08pm

re: #266 Obdicut

Google has actually started to hire more older workers now precisely because of this-- they used to almost exclusively hire workers from the 'just graduated' crowd, partially because they can control costs on them better, but they lose a lot of productivity because of that-- a lot of projects that just went nowhere.

I had someone ask me straight out in an interview, I could get some guy out of college to work for a third of what you're asking. Tell me what makes you the better choice.

It's like woo-hoo a twofer: age AND gender both at the same time, how hawt. e_e

This wasn't "back in the 90s", either, this was 2003 at an organization that definitely knows better.

276

Obdicut Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:58:42pm

re: #275 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Satt's 'logic' would work just fine for 'understanding' an employer not hiring a woman because she's likely to have kids, too. Much more so if she's actually pregnant, or dares to mention she wants to have kids.

277

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:58:49pm

re: #274 reine.de.tout

Can be, exactly, for some companies.

Also, some experienced employees are hesitant to go after entry level jobs with a new employer, usually at reduced pay from what their previous job was paying them; instead, they make demands they come in at higher than an entry level job and/or pay. This is a mistake on the part of the employee.

Thats how I got this job

I accepted an "entry level position" and within 8 months I was supervising our dept

6 months after that I moved to my current job ,, and 12 months after that I was promoted to t tech level 4 (highest level in the company)

278

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 4:59:12pm

re: #276 Obdicut

Satt's 'logic' would work just fine for 'understanding' an employer not hiring a woman because she's likely to have kids, too. Much more so if she's actually pregnant, or dares to mention she wants to have kids.

don't you DARE put words in my mouth

279

Obdicut Mon, Oct 31, 2011 5:01:19pm

re: #278 sattv4u2

don't you DARE put words in my mouth

I didn't, Mr. Outrage.

I said your logic would work fine. And it would. Why should an employer hire a woman if they think she might quit to take care of her kids? A lot of women do, after all.

Isn't it understandable that they wouldn't?

280

Stanghazi Mon, Oct 31, 2011 5:01:38pm

re: #274 reine.de.tout

Can be, exactly, for some companies.

Also, some experienced employees are hesitant to go after entry level jobs with a new employer, usually at reduced pay from what their previous job was paying them; instead, they make demands they come in at higher than an entry level job and/or pay. This is a mistake on the part of the employee.

Hi Reine!

I'm actually in a good position now. Entry level at a company, but their entry level is nothing to sneeze at. Way better than others. But still, I was for a time there the best freaking FILER they had seen. (no duh) I get in, am more senior, more experience etc. This year is proving to work out quite well for me.

281

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 31, 2011 5:01:57pm

What are we arguing about?

282

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 5:02:08pm

re: #272 sattv4u2

Don't ,, I'm just being a realist

Well, neither of us is talking about the pie-in-the-sky. Especially considering that the retirement age, at least afa collecting SS goes, is likely to go up, and ageism in the workplace is only going to become a bigger issue over the next 5-10 years, as more boomers move closer to the end of their professional lives, to use your mark.

283

Obdicut Mon, Oct 31, 2011 5:02:20pm

re: #281 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The price of tea in china is too damn high.

284

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 5:02:26pm

re: #279 Obdicut

tell you what

You answer the two questions you dodged 1st, then MAYBE I'll address yours

maybe

285

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 5:02:50pm

re: #279 Obdicut

I didn't, Mr. Outrage.

I said your logic would work fine. And it would. Why should an employer hire a woman if they think she might quit to take care of her kids? A lot of women do, after all.

Isn't it understandable that they wouldn't?

That's only being realistic. /

286

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 5:03:29pm

re: #279 Obdicut

I didn't, Mr. Outrage

And yes,, you did

"oh , I wasn't saying that YOU would do that ,,, i'm just saying"

Bullshit

287

albusteve Mon, Oct 31, 2011 5:03:55pm

re: #281 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What are we arguing about?

unreadable at this point....Egozilla is on the loose again

288

Stanghazi Mon, Oct 31, 2011 5:04:15pm

ICE! How's it? When is the Scottish Oct/Nov celebration? Tomorrow or the 5th? (clueless)

289

Obdicut Mon, Oct 31, 2011 5:04:43pm

re: #284 sattv4u2

No thanks. I don't ever actually expect substantial answers from you on any topic. I'm happy to stand by what I said. Your logic would apply to 'understanding' an employer not hiring a woman because they think she'll have kids and quit, too.

This is the reason we have laws about not discriminating based on age, sex, etc.

While it sometimes may be inevitable that employers get away with abuses of those laws, they don't need any encouragement in their malfeasance.

290

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 5:05:45pm

re: #289 Obdicut

No thanks. I don't ever actually expect substantial answers from you on any topic

Heh ,, this from the poster that answers a question WITh a question

Good tactic,,, keeps the other person on the defensive and off guard

291

sattv4u2 Mon, Oct 31, 2011 5:06:28pm

oh ,, and btw

STEEL PH ,, BITE ME

292

iceweasel Mon, Oct 31, 2011 5:07:07pm

re: #288 Stanley Sea

ICE! How's it? When is the Scottish Oct/Nov celebration? Tomorrow or the 5th? (clueless)

Hey cutie! The 5th-- guy fawkes night. :) Thanks for asking!
how are you doing anyway?

293

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 5:07:07pm

re: #276 Obdicut

Satt's 'logic' would work just fine for 'understanding' an employer not hiring a woman because she's likely to have kids, too. Much more so if she's actually pregnant, or dares to mention she wants to have kids.

It's the rationale behind every flimsy excuse for continued discrimination we still have to contend with.

294

prairiefire Mon, Oct 31, 2011 5:07:52pm

re: #280 Stanley Sea

Yeay, good for you!

295

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 5:10:16pm

re: #289 Obdicut

While it sometimes may be inevitable that employers get away with abuses of those laws, they don't need any encouragement in their malfeasance.

Especially from a potential target of said malfeasance, pre-emptively making excuses for it. Cripes.

296

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Oct 31, 2011 5:10:29pm

re: #199 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

That's entirely possible, though it could really only happen if the accuser is black. Not like conservatives like that give a damn when any woman of any stripe is sexually harassed, but if either accuser is white, it's curtains for his campaign.

You think lying liberal trollops trying to bring down a wealth-creating authentic black conservative still count as white women?

We shall see. This last couple of years has caused all sorts of reorganizing of bigoted priorities.

297

Stanghazi Mon, Oct 31, 2011 5:10:38pm

re: #292 iceweasel

Hey cutie! The 5th-- guy fawkes night. :) Thanks for asking!
how are you doing anyway?

Excellent. Drinking wine, got the good candy for the kiddos, waiting in my Witch costume, took a photo of my housemate - Hunter S. Thompson. Give me a minute to download.

298

Stanghazi Mon, Oct 31, 2011 5:14:38pm

Hunter S. in the flesh

299

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 5:22:04pm

re: #296 SanFranciscoZionist

You think lying liberal trollops trying to bring down a wealth-creating authentic black conservative still count as white women?

Yerp.

We shall see. This last couple of years has caused all sorts of reorganizing of bigoted priorities.

Some things have not shifted, and aren't likely to.

If they are revealed to be white, even if eee scary man-hating lesbians named Stanley Ann who obviously just need a good poke and some children, their Birth of A Nation training will get the best of them.

We're talking about a contingent includes people who actually fall for black baby rumors a decade ago, yet think Christine O'Donnell is a viable senatorial candidate. They're very easy to manipulate.

300

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Oct 31, 2011 5:25:15pm

re: #299 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yerp.

Some things have not shifted, and aren't likely to.

If they are revealed to be white, even if eee scary man-hating lesbians named Stanley Ann who obviously just need a good poke and some children, their Birth of A Nation training will get the best of them.

We're talking about a contingent includes people who actually fall for black baby rumors a decade ago, yet think Christine O'Donnell is a viable senatorial candidate. They're very easy to manipulate.

Well, we may never find out. If we do, it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I think his candidacy was on the rocks to begin with, so no matter what, this is only the coup de grace. Or the coup de embarassing scandal. Or whatever.

301

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Oct 31, 2011 5:28:06pm

re: #300 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, at least we can stop talking about race.

302

Decatur Deb Mon, Oct 31, 2011 5:28:17pm

re: #297 Stanley Sea

Excellent. Drinking wine, got the good candy for the kiddos, waiting in my Witch costume, took a photo of my housemate - Hunter S. Thompson. Give me a minute to download.

Very good. (Needs moar .357)

303

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 5:30:08pm

re: #300 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, we may never find out. If we do, it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I think his candidacy was on the rocks to begin with, so no matter what, this is only the coup de grace. Or the coup de embarassing scandal. Or whatever.

I've always seen HC the candidate as another clown car candidate. I don't think he was very serious about a run, so never really did much due diligence. Now that he's finally crossed over into Palin-level tabloid conservatism, well, I just hope he protects himself better, next time he wants the limelight.

304

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Oct 31, 2011 5:30:56pm

re: #301 Fat Bastard Vegetarian