Video: The Heartland Institute's Department of Education

Video: The Heartland Institute’s Department of Education

The future, in denial

EnvironmentFebruary 2012 • Views: 23,741

As recently revealed in the leaked documents from the Heartland Institute, the climate change denial front group (with financial aid from energy industries) is producing a “global warming curriculum” for public schools, to indoctrinate children with the false notion that climate science isn’t settled, and that there’s nothing to worry about.

Here’s a video from Al Gore’s Climate Reality Project on this outrageous plot to subvert the teaching of science.

Youtube Video

Sign this petition today, to tell the Heartland Institute to Keep Climate Denial Out of Our Schools.

Dear Mr. Bast,

I’m Corey Husic, and I’m a high school student in Pennsylvania. It’s come to my attention that you are prepared to spend a significant amount of money on a “global warming curriculum” to teach kids that climate change isn’t real.

That’s right. According to your own budget documents, you want to hand teachers a curriculum that says global warming is “a major scientific controversy” and that carbon dioxide might not even be a pollutant.

Please be advised: Your entire premise is false. The reality is that our climate is changing now and human activities are a primary cause. I’m just a high school student, so please don’t take my word for it. Just ask any National Academy of Science in the world or just about any actual climate scientist.

Given who pays your bills, your plan doesn’t come as a surprise. According to your own documents, your organization is funded by coal and oil companies with a financial stake in denying climate science — not to mention tobacco companies that tried to convince us smoking doesn’t cause cancer.

My generation is already experiencing a very different climate from our parents and grandparents. We will be the ones responsible for making sure coastal cities are able to withstand rising sea levels. We are the ones who will have to protect ourselves from weather extremes like stronger hurricanes, longer droughts and hotter heat waves. Instead of trying to undermine the science that shows humans are causing climate change, we should be learning how those changes are going to affect us and what we can do about it. In other words, teach us something useful.

We respectfully demand that you cease and desist your effort to bring climate change denial into our schools.

Corey Husic
Age 17
Climate Presenter

Jump to bottom

191 comments

researchok Tue, Feb 28, 2012 10:33:30am

Mix up on the video

Obdicut Tue, Feb 28, 2012 10:33:33am

It's kind of weird that we need to keep asserting that only science should be taught in science class.

Not propaganda, not religion.

Just science.

We need science.

Targetpractice Tue, Feb 28, 2012 10:33:51am

But it was all a hoax! Gleick made it all up to make Heartland look bad! How dare you join in this fear-mongering?! Heartland's gonna sue your ass!!!1111

Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Feb 28, 2012 10:38:23am

re: #2 Obdicut

It's kind of weird that we need to keep asserting that only science should be taught in science class.

Not propaganda, not religion.

Just science.

We need science.

Seriously? I mean, I was going to through in a few incantations and some incense burning into our worm dissection today, but now maybe I won't.

(Actually, it is unusually cold in Oregon right now, so our "extra" will be a space heater, because we dissect in the garage.)

Simply Sarah Tue, Feb 28, 2012 10:39:12am

re: #2 Obdicut

It's kind of weird that we need to keep asserting that only science should be taught in science class.

Not propaganda, not religion.

Just science.

We need science.

What's next? English in Spanish/French class (Can't have kids learning those dirty languages)? Something other than math in math class?

Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Feb 28, 2012 10:41:12am

re: #2 Obdicut

It's kind of weird that we need to keep asserting that only science should be taught in science class.

Not propaganda, not religion.

Just science.

We need science.

We are missing out on the basic sort of education: teaching people what science is and how it works.

"It's just a theory" has a completely different meaning in everyday parlance than it does in scientific inquiry. One presents a hypothesis. If there are enough facts to back it up, it becomes a theory. Global warming is "just a theory", a scientific theory that is backed up by facts and statistics from all over the globe.

There was recently an article in the Guardian about a scientist's statement that there was "no statistically significant" global warming recorded in the 1980's."

He meant that in the sense of statistics: the certainty for data measured in that decade was only 95%, not the 99%+ which is the criterion for being regarded as "statistically significant", which it was if one simply included a longer period of time.

But that statement was taken out of context and blown up to indicate that there was no global warming at all going on.

Kragar Tue, Feb 28, 2012 10:41:54am

So, how many death threats have the wingnuts sent her?

Charles Johnson Tue, Feb 28, 2012 10:43:11am

Remember though - Al Gore is fat.

erik_t Tue, Feb 28, 2012 10:43:41am

re: #6 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

He meant that in the sense of statistics: the certainty was only 95%, not 99%+ which is the criterion for "statistically significant", which it was if one simply included a longer period of time.

When you're fighting Swift Boaters, you need to be damned careful in how you speak to different audiences. This has been a problem in science since time immemorial, but not since Galileo have whole fields of scientific inquiry been attacked by monied forces of propaganda.

We must do better.

Kragar Tue, Feb 28, 2012 10:44:18am

re: #8 Charles Johnson

Remember though - Al Gore is fat.

But Rush is wise.

HappyWarrior Tue, Feb 28, 2012 10:44:19am

re: #8 Charles Johnson

Remember though - Al Gore is fat.

And looks bad with a beard. Sorry Al but that beard wasn't you.

Targetpractice Tue, Feb 28, 2012 10:44:34am

re: #8 Charles Johnson

Remember though - Al Gore is fat.

Al Gore has been invoked, your global warming argument has failed!

///

Simply Sarah Tue, Feb 28, 2012 10:45:31am

re: #9 erik_t

When you're fighting Swift Boaters, you need to be damned careful in how you speak to different audiences. This has been a problem in science since time immemorial, but not since Galileo have whole fields of scientific inquiry been attacked by monied forces of propaganda.

We must do better.

Come back, Carl Sagan! We need you!

Achilles Tang Tue, Feb 28, 2012 10:45:47am

That letter will have about as much effect as writing your congressman on any subject you disagree with.

Ming Tue, Feb 28, 2012 10:46:10am

re: #5 Simply Sarah

What's next? English in Spanish/French class (Can't have kids learning those dirty languages)? Something other than math in math class?

How about the "controversy" between astronomy and astrology?

erik_t Tue, Feb 28, 2012 10:46:59am

re: #13 Simply Sarah

Come back, Carl Sagan! We need you!

I was thinking more along the lines of the Dread Lord Tufte.

Achilles Tang Tue, Feb 28, 2012 10:47:02am

re: #13 Simply Sarah

Come back, Carl Sagan! We need you!

Silly as it may sound, we could even ask GWB to say something...

Targetpractice Tue, Feb 28, 2012 10:47:16am

re: #13 Simply Sarah

Come back, Carl Sagan! We need you!

Billyons and billyons!

Feline Fearless Leader Tue, Feb 28, 2012 10:53:06am

re: #5 Simply Sarah

What's next? English in Spanish/French class (Can't have kids learning those dirty languages)? Something other than math in math class?

Not allowed to use zero when doing math. We got that from the Arabs, so it must be a Muslim infiltrator since it stands for nothing!

bubba zanetti Tue, Feb 28, 2012 10:53:48am

re: #16 erik_t

I was thinking more along the lines of the Dread Lord Tufte.

I don't think sparklines are going to suddenly create a change in wingnut opinion.

Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:03:43am

An Arizona lawmaker, in a veiled attempt to outlaw Evolution in schools, presented a bill making it illegal to force students to learn "anything that is contrary to their religious beliefs".

A local satirist came up with the following:

Teacher. Billy, what is two times two?
Billy: Five!
Teacher: No, Billy, it's four!
Billy: But my daddy believes it's five, and he told me it's five and the law says
you can't make me learn otherwise!
Teacher: This is not a matter of belief, this is a matter of objective reality!
Billy: But my daddy doesn't believe in objective reality!

lawhawk Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:04:58am

re: #21 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

I reject your reality and substitute my own...

Kragar Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:05:02am

re: #21 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

An Arizona lawmaker, in a veiled attempt to outlaw Evolution in schools, presented a bill making it illegal to force students to learn "anything that is contrary to their religious beliefs".

A local satirist came up with the following:

Teacher. Billy, what is two times two?
Billy: Five!
Teacher: No, Bioly, it's four!
Billy: But my daddy believes it's five, and he told me it's five and the law says
you can't make me learn otherwise!
Teacher: This is not a matter of belief, this is a matter of objective reality!
Billy: But my daddy doesn't believe in objective reality!

My religious beliefs says the only way to kill a wizard is with the cleansing fire.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:07:47am

re: #23 Kragar

My religious beliefs says the only way to kill a wizard is with the cleansing fire.

Mine says you can turn them into white ferrets and bounce them down the hall.

erik_t Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:08:04am

re: #21 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

An Arizona lawmaker, in a veiled attempt to outlaw Evolution in schools, presented a bill making it illegal to force students to learn "anything that is contrary to their religious beliefs".

Don't worry, I'm sure there will be no internal contradictions within the student body.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:08:50am

It is against my religion to learn the nine times.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:10:37am

re: #26 To hold my temper, most of the time.

It is against my religion to learn the nine times.

9's are easy, it's the 11's that are hard.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:13:20am

re: #27 ggt

9's are easy, it's the 11's that are hard.

You should never learn the 11's. Witches use the 11's to make cows give sour milk, make rivers dry up, make the apples rot in the cellar, and oh yes, make men need cialis.

HappyWarrior Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:13:33am

re: #27 ggt

9's are easy, it's the 11's that are hard.

9
18
27
36
45
54
63
72
81
90
99
108.
(Notice the trend, pretty neat huh)

Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:14:23am

re: #29 HappyWarrior

9
18
27
36
45
54
63
72
81
90
99
108.
(Notice the trend, pretty neat huh)

Actually, the finger trick from Stand and Deliver is pretty neat.

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:16:26am

We had a big old huge family reunion at my daughter's wedding, and what kind of family reunion would it be without a whopping screaming, yelling fight over evolution vs. creation?

All the evolutionists ganging up on one little old creationist. But he held his silly ground in spite of (or maybe because of) being ganged up on.

When a family member decides to take a stand, they don't budge for facts and logic. It's in our DNA.

HappyWarrior Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:16:57am

re: #30 To hold my temper, most of the time.

Actually, the finger trick from Stand and Deliver is pretty neat.

Gosh I haven't seen that movie in years so I don't remember that at all. I remember 7's being said to be tough but that's gotten easier for me since I watch alot of football. I remember a neat trick a teacher taught me about dividing by three that if you add all the digits in the number up and if they themselves are divisible by three, then the number itself will be. I was always good at basic math but then middle school with its algebra turned it into my nemesis.

Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:18:59am

re: #31 Learned Mother of Zion

All the evolutionists ganging up on one little old creationist. But he held his silly ground in spite of (or maybe because of) being ganged up on.

They like that feeling, Rick Santorum thrives on it: being from an oppressed religion (with its own country and a history of world domination), or non-college educated college graduates...

Targetpractice Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:20:03am

re: #30 To hold my temper, most of the time.

Actually, the finger trick from Stand and Deliver is pretty neat.

Youtube Video

Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:21:08am

re: #32 HappyWarrior

Gosh I haven't seen that movie in years so I don't remember that at all. I remember 7's being said to be tough but that's gotten easier for me since I watch alot of football. I remember a neat trick a teacher taught me about dividing by three that if you add all the digits in the number up and if they themselves are divisible by three, then the number itself will be. I was always good at basic math but then middle school with its algebra turned it into my nemesis.

If you can add to 3, 6 or 9 and it is even, it's divisible by 6.

If it adds to 9, it's divisible by 9.

Youtube Video

Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:21:33am

re: #34 Targetpractice

You win. I got sidetracked into watching other parts of the movie.

HappyWarrior Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:23:16am

re: #35 To hold my temper, most of the time.

If you can add to 3, 6 or 9 and it is even, it's divisible by 6.

If it adds to 9, it's divisible by 9.

[Embedded content]

Ah I didn't know that trick. I always got frustrated at math in school since the teachers always asked to show my work but alot of it was done in my head. I understood why they wanted that since they wanted to see how I was learning it and later you had textbooks that had odd or even answers in the back.

Targetpractice Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:24:13am

re: #36 To hold my temper, most of the time.

You win. I got sidetracked into watching other parts of the movie.

Saw that movie at least three times in school, so I knew the scene you were talking.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:24:45am

Youtube Video

Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:25:41am

For some reason the 3's were super easy for me. There for 9's weren't a problem.

13 is the real problem--I get lost after 39.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:26:14am

re: #40 ggt

For some reason the 3's were super easy for me. There for 9's weren't a problem.

13 is the real problem--I get lost after 39.

Your school made you memorize the 13's?

That's hardcore.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:26:51am

Actually, I think I stopped at 13. 15's were easy, so there is no reason to memorize them. Who care's about 14, 16, 17, 18 & 19? Then there is 20, again, super easy.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:27:08am

re: #41 To hold my temper, most of the time.

Your school made you memorize the 13's?

That's hardcore.

nuns

HappyWarrior Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:27:26am

re: #43 ggt

nuns

That would do it.

HappyWarrior Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:28:59am

13's are the toughest though. I think we stopped at uh 11 or 12 maybe. I don't know. Math wasn't my best subject. In seventh grade, I had it in seventh period right after gym and my thoughts were on home more than anything. Looking back, that class was the closest I ever got to summer school.

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:30:06am

TSA was giving me a hard time over about 3 oz. of milk that I wanted to keep for my coffee. They were being such assholes that I said "Fuck you" and walked away.

What pearl clutching! "Did you head what that old lady said to us! Oh heavens! We should arrest her just for cussing at a Homeland Security agent!"

Fuck those fucking fuckballs.

Lidane Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:30:38am

re: #10 Kragar

But Rush is wise.

He's also pissed at Mittens:

Rush Slams Romney For 'Hair On Fire' Line About Base

Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:31:51am

re: #46 Learned Mother of Zion

TSA was giving me a hard time over about 3 oz. of milk that I wanted to keep for my coffee. They were being such assholes that I said "Fuck you" and walked away.

What pearl clutching! "Did you head what that old lady said to us! Oh heavens! We should arrest her just for cussing at a Homeland Security agent!"

Fuck those fucking fuckballs.

Nice Jewish Grandmother!

teehee

HappyWarrior Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:32:03am

re: #47 Lidane

He's also pissed at Mittens:

Rush Slams Romney For 'Hair On Fire' Line About Base

Good.Let the blowhard be pissed. He's always pissed about something.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:32:34am

re: #49 HappyWarrior

Good.Let the blowhard be pissed. He's always pissed about something.

What a way to live. Pissed-off all the time.

Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:33:22am

re: #50 ggt

What a way to live. Pissed-off all the time.

It has been a successful business model.

HappyWarrior Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:33:41am

re: #50 ggt

What a way to live. Pissed-off all the time.

He's a bitter, bitter man. I mean what else can you say about someone whose living is to whine about liberals. Really I'd hate myself if I had a job like that. I don't like conservatism but man I love life more.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:35:33am

re: #52 HappyWarrior

He's a bitter, bitter man. I mean what else can you say about someone whose living is to whine about liberals. Really I'd hate myself if I had a job like that. I don't like conservatism but man I love life more.

Yeah, that not being in charge of all change is pissy. I'd be pissed if I thought it was my birthright as well.

Luckily, no one ever taught me that I was in charge.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:37:11am

re: #53 ggt

Yeah, that not being in charge of all change is pissy. I'd be pissed if I thought it was my birthright as well.

Luckily, no one ever taught me that I was in charge.

If I ever wondered if you were my older sister...

Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:37:30am

Psychologically and Metaphysically speaking, Anger is short-term false power.

Useful for controlling little minds.

Get them all riled-up and distracted, then do what you want.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:38:29am

There are two things I have power over: What I SAY and What I DO.

Other people can fuck-off.

carlaschluge Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:39:13am

For you AGW wingnuts, chomp on these facts, made simple so even you can understand:

Temperatures rose in the 1800's until about 1880, but there was no significant increase in carbon dioxide.

Then temperatures fell until around 1918, but there was no measurable decrease in carbon dioxide.

Then, starting in 1919, and going through 1942, temperatures increased. The amount of carbon dioxide increased; however, the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere continued to increase while temperatures decreased from 1942 through 1980.

From 1980 through 1998, temperatures increased. Interestingly, the rise in temperatures during this period, when carbon dioxide supposedly was the source of the rise in temperatures, the rate of increase was no greater than the rate of increase in the 1919 through 1942 time frame.

From 1999 through 2011, there has been no increase in temperatures, even though carbon dioxide levels have increased.

There is no conclusive correlation between CO2 and temperature. The only way to achieve a correlation is through modeling and incorporating assumed factors . . . in other words, doctoring the data, or, more bluntly, cheating.

Geological records show no correlations between increased carbon dioxide and warming. Significantly, there are periods of static temperatures despite fluctuating levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, and periods of cooling despite increased carbon dioxide levels.

AGW still is unsettled and should be taught in school as, at best, a theory. For a really good discussion on global warming that is easy to read, check out Michael Crichton's book, "State of Fear."

lawhawk Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:39:24am

re: #34 Targetpractice

Admiral Adama in his pre-fleet days... Still pretty bad-ass.

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:39:50am

TSA will fuck over anybody who looks like they will just shut up and take it.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:40:23am

Was too sick to run Brat Puppy in Agility Class last night. One of the little girls (junior handles) did it for me. Brat Puppy, of course, was perfectly behaved for the little girl.

lawhawk Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:40:28am

*sniff sniff*

Lidane Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:40:58am

re: #57 carlaschluge

For a really good discussion on global warming that is easy to read, check out Michael Crichton's book, "State of Fear."

State of Fear is a NOVEL. It is fiction, not fact.

I'll take the work of actual climate scientists over an alarmist novel, thanks.

Obdicut Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:41:34am

re: #57 carlaschluge

Citation?

Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:41:42am

re: #57 carlaschluge

simple facts for simple minds?

I am glad that the world is so simple that we don't need science to understand it.

We just need faith in God and some anecdotal evidence to back up our preconceived beliefs.

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:41:51am

re: #57 carlaschluge

AGW still is unsettled and should be taught in school as, at best, a theory. For a really good discussion on global warming that is easy to read, check out Michael Crichton's book, "State of Fear."

"State of Fear" was a FICTION novel. Just like his other novels about bringing dinosaurs back to life, and swarms of nanobots spoofing human beings.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:41:59am

re: #57 carlaschluge

MIchael Cricton's book was a decent read. It did bring up one good point, IMHO. The reliance on computer models for a lot of things, not just AGW.

It was a novel, I enjoyed it.

But, it was a novel. Not reality.

Gus Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:42:02am

re: #63 Obdicut

Citation?

WUWT

Lidane Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:42:45am

re: #63 Obdicut

Citation?

Where else? They pulled it all out of their ass.

Recommending a Michael Crichton novel as good reading on AGW? Total fail and idiocy.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:42:52am

re: #67 Gus

WUWT

References required empirical thinking.

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:44:14am

re: #68 Lidane

Where else? They pulled it all out of their ass.

Recommending a Michael Crichton novel as good reading on AGW? Total fail and idiocy.

I did like the part where cannibals eat up the Hollywood celebrity.

HappyWarrior Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:44:29am

For better understanding 1940's prisons, I present you Rita Heyworth and the Shawshawk Redemption. Sorry, I trust actual scientists rather than writers on an issue like climate change.

Gus Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:45:06am

Surprise!

Michael Crichton Is Right!
By Joseph Bast

Michael Crichton, author of State of Fear and many other exciting novels, died on November 4, 2008, after a long battle against cancer. He was 66.

State of Fear is a devastating critique of radical environmentalism in general and global warming alarmism in particular. When the book appeared in 2005, Crichton was met with a barrage of attacks and distortions from leftists and radical environmentalists. Fenton Communications--a public relations firm with a long history of fanning public fears in order to advance liberal causes--even launched a Web site called RealClimate.org devoted to rebutting Crichton. That site still exists, and still pitches global warming alarmism...

HappyWarrior Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:46:31am

re: #72 Gus

Surprise!

Michael Crichton Is Right!
By Joseph Bast

There has been alarmism about many issues in history, that doesn't mean ignoring the problem is good policy.

Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:46:32am

Dinosaurs ate all the CO2! Let's bring them back, I read in a novel that it is possible...

lawhawk Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:47:23am

Parsing out a 10 year period claiming little to no increase while ignoring that the overall trend is warmer shows just how wrong those claims are.

That's from the same skeptics' side that claims that we're not able to sufficiently talk about climate because we're talking about an insufficiently long period of study. We have 100+ years of direct measurement and thousands of years based on other indirect measures (tree ring, ice cores, etc.).

re: #71 HappyWarrior
That's a Stephen King novel(a).

Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:47:26am

re: #71 HappyWarrior

For better understanding 1940's prisons, I present you Rita Heyworth and the Shawshawk Redemption. Sorry, I trust actual scientists rather than writers on an issue like climate change.

I think my favorite is the Penn and Teller Bullshit! episode about the environmentalists. They interviewed different people --you know, the one with the infamous Dihydrogen Monoxide petition?

There are stupid people everywhere involved with every issue.

Hucksters of the world are making a mint.

Charles Johnson Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:47:29am

re: #57 carlaschluge

Like you, I used to rely on sources like Michael Crichton's novel for my opinions on climate change. But there came a time when I realized that I was ignorant about the real issues and the real science, and that novelists and right wing think tanks were not going to help me overcome that ignorance.

That was quite a dump of right wing denialist talking points. But if you have the intellectual honesty to start researching the truth about these issues for yourself, as I did, you may find that continued ignorance is an untenable position.

Lidane Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:48:41am

re: #71 HappyWarrior

For better understanding 1940's prisons, I present you Rita Heyworth and the Shawshawk Redemption. Sorry, I trust actual scientists rather than writers.

And for a better understanding of tuberculosis and early 20th Century France, I totally recommend Moulin Rouge. For religion, you can't miss with The DaVinci Code. And if you want to understand American history, I hear that the National Treasure films are a good, solid resource.

///

HappyWarrior Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:50:21am

re: #76 ggt

I think my favorite is the Penn and Teller Bullshit! episode about the environmentalists. They interviewed different people --you know, the one with the infamous Dihydrogen Monoxide petition?

There are stupid people everywhere involved with every issue.

Hucksters of the world are making a mint.

My chemistry teacher played that same prank on us. To my embarrassment, I was among those that fell for it but I later saw the Penn and Teller ep, funny stuff. As I said, there are always going to be alarmists and criticizing them is fair game but it's also fair game to criticize those on the opposite side who would rather do nothing.

carlaschluge Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:50:50am

re: #62 Lidane

State of Fear is a NOVEL. It is fiction, not fact.

I'll take the work of actual climate scientists over an alarmist novel, thanks.

Michael Crichton was a scientist. Of course his book is a work of fiction. Duh! However, his presentation of the use of data, modeling, charts and graphs used by AGW apologists is instructive and illuminating.

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:51:19am

re: #80 carlaschluge

Michael Crichton was a scientist. Of course his book is a work of fiction. Duh! However, his presentation of the use of data, modeling, charts and graphs used by AGW apologists is instructive and illuminating.

I want my pet dinosaur!

Obdicut Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:52:48am

re: #73 HappyWarrior

There has been alarmism about many issues in history, that doesn't mean ignoring the problem is good policy.

There was 'alarmism' about the conditions that brought about the Dust Bowl.

They were ignored.

Many Americans went hungry as a result. Children's growth stunted, including mental growth-- you can't learn on a tired brain.

We did better with the systematic poisoning of lakes and rivers, and the air-- we passed the Clean Air and Water acts. Those are slipping now, even, despite how bad it was and how much better it is now.

Environmentalism produces a huge amount of value. There is little way to evaluate a clean, healthy environment vs a toxic one. One is worth unutterably more.

Sustainability is the only possible path. Anyone who denies that, who wants to rely on things that will run out for any length of time, is a moron.

erik_t Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:53:10am

And why does Big Vegetable continue to get away with their food alarmism? Why, in E.T., we see that even more advanced species than our own would like nothing more than to eat shitty chocolate/peanut-butter candy. Big Vegetable's ideas remain unsettled and should be taught in school as, at best, a 'theory'.

HappyWarrior Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:53:16am

re: #81 Learned Mother of Zion

I want my pet dinosaur!

Screw that I want to be a dinosaur.

Youtube Video

Lidane Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:53:26am

re: #80 carlaschluge

Michael Crichton was a scientist.

He was an anthropologist that ended up with a medical degree and who wrote fiction novels and screenplays for a living. Show me where any of that qualifies him to talk about climate science.

Again, you fail.

carlaschluge Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:53:34am

re: #75 lawhawk

Parsing out a 10 year period claiming little to no increase while ignoring that the overall trend is warmer shows just how wrong those claims are.

That's from the same skeptics' side that claims that we're not able to sufficiently talk about climate because we're talking about an insufficiently long period of study. We have 100+ years of direct measurement and thousands of years based on other indirect measures (tree ring, ice cores, etc.).

That's a Stephen King novel(a).

There is no overall warming trend, unless, of course, you're an AGW wingnut.

Shiplord Kirel Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:53:46am

Think of the benefits! Why, here in Lubbock, the grass is already turning green from the lack of cold weather. This is the earliest it has done so by several weeks. Heck, there were 8 inches of snow on the ground the day my daughter was born, March 2nd 1977.
Weeds are sprouting in my backyard but they can easily be replaced by some fast growing strain of lawn turf. Why fast growing? Because we are probably in for another record hot summer and all the grass will die and turn brown and crunchy by June. We'll save a lot on mowing though, just like last year!

Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:54:14am

re: #80 carlaschluge

Granted, there are millions of dollars in grants at stake for scientists, and I am sure that some scientists might be tempted to risk their professional reputations for short-term gain.

But there are billions and and even trillions of dollars on the line in the energy industry, and for most of these people, financial gain is the criterion by which their professional reputation is measured.

wrenchwench Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:54:19am

Carl or Carla likes red pixels.

Gus Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:54:24am

re: #80 carlaschluge

Michael Crichton was a scientist. Of course his book is a work of fiction. Duh! However, his presentation of the use of data, modeling, charts and graphs used by AGW apologists is instructive and illuminating.

Illuminating! You mean like this?

At Harvard he developed the belief that all diseases, including heart attacks, are direct effects of a patient's state of mind. He later wrote: "We cause our diseases. We are directly responsible for any illness that happens to us." Eventually he came to believe in auras, astral projection, and clairvoyance.

HappyWarrior Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:54:59am

re: #90 Gus

Illuminating! You mean like this?

At Harvard he developed the belief that all diseases, including heart attacks, are direct effects of a patient's state of mind. He later wrote: "We cause our diseases. We are directly responsible for any illness that happens to us." Eventually he came to believe in auras, astral projection, and clairvoyance.

I just saw that in his wikipedia entry.

Gus Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:55:12am

The kind of evidence I have seen for clairvoyance or telepathy — evidence that leads me to accept these phenomena as unquestionably real — I have not experienced for the idea of past lives.
-- Michael Crichton

Altermite Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:55:15am

Anyone know a good site for exit polls?

HappyWarrior Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:55:43am

re: #82 Obdicut

There was 'alarmism' about the conditions that brought about the Dust Bowl.

They were ignored.

Many Americans went hungry as a result. Children's growth stunted, including mental growth-- you can't learn on a tired brain.

We did better with the systematic poisoning of lakes and rivers, and the air-- we passed the Clean Air and Water acts. Those are slipping now, even, despite how bad it was and how much better it is now.

Environmentalism produces a huge amount of value. There is little way to evaluate a clean, healthy environment vs a toxic one. One is worth unutterably more.

Sustainability is the only possible path. Anyone who denies that, who wants to rely on things that will run out for any length of time, is a moron.

This is true. And yeah environmentalism is and has been a positive force.

Gus Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:55:57am

We cause our diseases. We are directly responsible for any illness that happens to us.
-- Michael Crichton

Targetpractice Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:56:00am

re: #85 Lidane

He was an anthropologist that ended up with a medical degree and who wrote fiction novels and screenplays for a living. Show me where any of that qualifies him to talk about climate science.

Again, you fail.

You ever notice that the vast majority of those who supposedly are "whistleblowers" on the AGW "hoax" hold degrees in sciences wholly separated from climate science?

Gus Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:56:07am

Derp.

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:56:11am

re: #78 Lidane

And for a better understanding of tuberculosis and early 20th Century France, I totally recommend Moulin Rouge. For religion, you can't miss with The DaVinci Code. And if you want to understand American history, I hear that the National Treasure films are a good, solid resource.

///

ABRAHAM LINCOLN, VAMPIRE SLAYER!

Targetpractice Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:57:02am

re: #98 Learned Mother of Zion

ABRAHAM LINCOLN, VAMPIRE SLAYER!

Definitely going to see that when it comes out.

100

Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:57:05am

re: #78 Lidane

And for a better understanding of tuberculosis and early 20th Century France, I totally recommend Moulin Rouge. For religion, you can't miss with The DaVinci Code. And if you want to understand American history, I hear that the National Treasure films are a good, solid resource.

///

Anytime any "historical essay" starts with a conspiracy of Masons, Templars, or both, you are about to get handed a big steaming pile of hooey.

Really fun, well-made hooey, but nevertheless...

101

William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:57:20am

re: #57 carlaschluge

Troll quoting dead troll. I'd think that would be a rather sad way to live.

102

Gus Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:57:30am

Crichton goes Uri Geller!

Spoon bending obviously must have some ordinary explanation, since a hundred people from all walks of life we're doing it. And it was hard to feel any sort of mystery: you just rub the spoon for a while and pretty soon it gets soft, and it bends. And that's that.

The only thing I noticed is that spoon bending seemed to require a focused in attention. You had to try to get it to bend, and then you had to forget about it. Maybe talk to someone else while you rubbed the spoon. Or look around the room. Change your attention. That's when it was likely to bend.
-- Michael Crichton

103

kirkspencer Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:57:31am

Actually, if you download the GISS data you can check the numbers yourself. If you do a simple trend analysis from 1999 through 2010 you discover that the average global temperature is not flat; it goes up.

104

Charles Johnson Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:57:31am

Infographic: Which makes more sense?

105

Lidane Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:57:58am

re: #92 Gus

The kind of evidence I have seen for clairvoyance or telepathy — evidence that leads me to accept these phenomena as unquestionably real — I have not experienced for the idea of past lives.
-- Michael Crichton

SCIENCE!

Oh, wait.

106

Coracle Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:57:59am

re: #86 carlaschluge

There is no overall warming trend, unless, of course, you're an AGW wingnut.

That's simply false, as study after study demonstrates.

107

Interesting Times Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:58:00am

re: #86 carlaschluge

There is no overall warming trend, unless, of course, you're an AGW wingnut.

Not only are you dumb, but blind as well.

108

Gus Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:58:05am

Spoon bending and ESP!

109

Obdicut Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:58:13am

re: #88 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

The best way to make your name in science is to defeat a prevailing theory. Just adding to the general knowledge can make a great career, but the real legends of science are the groundbreakers, the ones who produce the unexpected result.

This is why the deniers are such idiots. If anyone could disprove AGW, scientifically-- if they could prove, for example, that something that overrode our carbon input was in the way, some sort of reverse of what's actually happening with the feedback cycle-- they would be hailed as a hero.

The likelihood of that is vanishingly, vanishingly remote. Everything we have seen shows that CO2 accelerates warming which accelerates CO2 from other sources, until those are depleted.

110

HappyWarrior Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:58:32am

re: #104 Charles Johnson

Infographic: Which makes more sense?

Heh.

111

Gus Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:59:05am

re: #105 Lidane

SCIENCE!

Oh, wait.

Science!

112

Coracle Tue, Feb 28, 2012 11:59:41am

One of my favorite graphics on climate change.

113

Lidane Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:00:06pm

re: #111 Gus

Science!

Science!

Youtube Video

114

Coracle Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:00:11pm

re: #107 Interesting Times

You beat me to it.

115

Targetpractice Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:01:00pm

Crichton was a science-fiction writer, note the word after science, FICTION. Granted, he was a very good story-teller, and I've got several of his books, but that doesn't mean he was some authoritative scientific source. The man made money off scaring the shit out of people by weaving scary narratives based on his pet theories of the time.

116

lawhawk Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:01:17pm

re: #112 Coracle

That's the chart I was looking for. Thanks!

117

Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:02:07pm

re: #81 Learned Mother of Zion

I want my pet dinosaur!

Michael Crichton was a Medical Doctor.

That is like saying Veterinarian could do better at film making than Jacques Cousteau.

Seriously, a science degree does not make one omniscient.

118

Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:03:05pm

re: #99 Targetpractice

Definitely going to see that when it comes out.

that and "Iron Sky": Nazi flying saucers from the dark side of the moon!

119

Ming Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:03:09pm

re: #57 carlaschluge

I've always enjoyed Michael Crichton's novels. I read State of Fear a few years ago and liked it. But there was one thing in that book that made an impression on me. I may not be remembering it accurately now, but I do believe that in the book, one character (a woman trained in martial arts) seriously beats up and injured another character, and the violence was triggered by (believe it or not) their conversation about global warming! I don't remember what happened to the other character; I think it was something like she broke his arm. They were sitting in a car, talking about global warming. He said he believed in it; she argued that global warming is entirely a hoax; her arguments weren't getting through to him, and she beat him up.

Please correct me if my memory of that particular scene is badly off, but it really shocked me when I read it. Apparently some people get really emotional about global warming!

120

Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:03:37pm

re: #95 Gus

We cause our diseases. We are directly responsible for any illness that happens to us.
-- Michael Crichton

Sounds like a religious viewpoint, not a scientific one.

IMHO

121

Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:05:34pm

re: #104 Charles Johnson

obviously, only those scientists who receive large grants from energy companies are in a position to relax and pursue "pure science" as they no longer have any financial concerns.

On the other hand, those other poor scientists scrambling for grant money will willingly piss away their professional reputations for immediate short-term financial gain...

122

carlaschluge Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:05:38pm

re: #77 Charles Johnson

Like you, I used to rely on sources like Michael Crichton's novel for my opinions on climate change. But there came a time when I realized that I was ignorant about the real issues and the real science, and that novelists and right wing think tanks were not going to help me overcome that ignorance.

That was quite a dump of right wing denialist talking points. But if you have the intellectual honesty to start researching the truth about these issues for yourself, as I did, you may find that continued ignorance is an untenable position.

Newsflash. I have researched AGW . . . extensively. Bottom line: there is no conclusive evidence that man, or CO2, is causing the earth to warm. If you don't mind, for everyone's edification, an excellent site that I review often is [Link: climatedebatedaily.com...] If offers both pro and con.

123

Lidane Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:06:11pm

re: #117 ggt

Seriously, a science degree does not make one omniscient.

True, but a relevant science degree and actual research in the field might just give someone more credibility to talk about climate science.

The fact that anyone takes a sci-fi novelist like Michael Crichton seriously on AGW is a joke. He wasn't even a climate scientist. WTF. How blinded and delusional do you have to be to think he was an authority on anything?

124

Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:06:46pm

re: #95 Gus

We cause our diseases. We are directly responsible for any illness that happens to us.
-- Michael Crichton

A relative of mine (who prefers to go unnamed) caused her heart condition by being born.

Since it's genetic, and her life has been very clean.

125

Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:06:51pm

re: #122 carlaschluge

Newsflash. I have researched AGW . . . extensively. Bottom line: there is no conclusive evidence that man, or CO2, is causing the earth to warm. If you don't mind, for everyone's edification, an excellent site that I review often is [Link: climatedebatedaily.com...] If offers both pro and con.

regardless of who/what caused it, IT IS.

If we don't want lots of people to die and our planet to be ruined, WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING.

That something is not pointing fingers or placing blame.

126

Targetpractice Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:07:08pm

But maybe our latest troll is right, we should be looking to Crichton for the answers on some of the biggest worries facing our planet right now. Like, say, the dangers of a virus coming from space that thrives on energy and will kill us all by causing our blood to spontaneously coagulate!

127

Coracle Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:07:26pm

re: #122 carlaschluge

Again, you're simply wrong. Study after study demonstrates the effect of CO2 as a greenhouse gas in our atmosphere and it is amply demonstrated that we are the primary source of an annual CO2 increase over 4 orders of magnitude higher than natural processes.

128

Obdicut Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:07:32pm

re: #122 carlaschluge

Get with the program. Almost all the deniers admit the earth is warming these days, they just claim mankind and CO2 aren't responsible. You're so 2009.

129

erik_t Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:08:04pm

re: #122 carlaschluge

Newsflash. I have researched AGW . . . extensively. Bottom line: there is no conclusive evidence that man, or CO2, is causing the earth to warm. If you don't mind, for everyone's edification, an excellent site that I review often is [Link: climatedebatedaily.com...] If offers both pro and con.

If you have handy an excellent topical site that you review often, why do you first attempt to cite a work of fucking fiction in support of your ill-thought positions?

This troll bores me. Someone find another.

130

Eventual Carrion Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:08:13pm

re: #85 Lidane

He was an anthropologist that ended up with a medical degree and who wrote fiction novels and screenplays for a living. Show me where any of that qualifies him to talk about climate science.

Again, you fail.

Maybe he will after his dentist does his open heart surgery. They both have medical degrees.

131

Lidane Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:09:10pm

re: #122 carlaschluge

Newsflash. I have researched AGW . . . extensively.

By reading fiction written by a man who wasn't even a climate scientist.

Seriously -- just stop. You're making a complete fool of yourself. I'm embarrassed for you.

132

Targetpractice Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:09:28pm

re: #128 Obdicut

Get with the program. Almost all the deniers admit the earth is warming these days, they just claim mankind and CO2 aren't responsible. You're so 2009.

Oh, both talking points are getting played these days. One moment, it's "There's been no warming for the last 15 years!," the next we get "So what if there's warming, you can't prove conclusively that we're responsible!," and finally "Warming is natural, not something we can control or stop, so there's no reason to panic!"

133

Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:09:30pm

It's all about the money.

Those making money on fossil fuels aren't going to want a change in energy sourcing for any reason. Climate, political power balance or human health.

134

jamesfirecat Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:10:08pm

re: #130 RayFerd

Maybe he will after his dentist does his open heart surgery. They both have medical degrees.

Dr. Loboto: Little boy, I'm afraid that you have a serious mental problem. The trouble orignates it this reagon, that we in the medical profession refer to as... THE Brain! You see son, its just no good! I hate to be so blunt but you have the Isanity of a manity!
Dogen Boole: I know... everybodys always saying that. Whats wrong with my brain docter?
Dr. Loboto: How should I know, I'm a dentist! But here's what I do know, when a Tooth is bad, you pull it!
Dogen Boole: But my teeth are fine
Dr. Loboto: Yes that brains got to go. Its the quickest way to cure what you have... INSANITY OF THE MIND!

135

wrenchwench Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:10:15pm

re: #126 Targetpractice

But maybe our latest troll is right, we should be looking to Crichton for the answers on some of the biggest worries facing our planet right now. Like, say, the dangers of a virus coming from space that thrives on energy and will kill us all by causing our blood to spontaneously coagulate!

//

That's straining towards Andromeda.

136

Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:10:21pm

Frank Sinatra has been reincarnated!

Ole' Blue Eyes!

(cuteness warning)

137

HappyWarrior Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:10:28pm

If Al Gore wasn't the face of the climate change movement than the hostility to the movement wouldn't be what it is today.

138

Kragar Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:10:33pm

re: #122 carlaschluge

Newsflash. I have researched AGW . . . extensively. Bottom line: there is no conclusive evidence that man, or CO2, is causing the earth to warm. If you don't mind, for everyone's edification, an excellent site that I review often is [Link: climatedebatedaily.com...] If offers both pro and con.

You're an idiot.

139

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:10:36pm

re: #119 Ming

I've always enjoyed Michael Crichton's novels. I read State of Fear a few years ago and liked it. But there was one thing in that book that made an impression on me. I may not be remembering it accurately now, but I do believe that in the book, one character (a woman trained in martial arts) seriously beats up and injured another character, and the violence was triggered by (believe it or not) their conversation about global warming! I don't remember what happened to the other character; I think it was something like she broke his arm. They were sitting in a car, talking about global warming. He said he believed in it; she argued that global warming is entirely a hoax; her arguments weren't getting through to him, and she beat him up.

Please correct me if my memory of that particular scene is badly off, but it really shocked me when I read it. Apparently some people get really emotional about global warming!

I don't remember that scene. The most memorable scene in that book, as I said before, was the cannibals eating the celebrity.

140

Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:10:39pm

re: #122 carlaschluge

Newsflash. I have researched AGW . . . extensively. Bottom line: there is no conclusive evidence that man, or CO2, is causing the earth to warm. If you don't mind, for everyone's edification, an excellent site that I review often is [Link: climatedebatedaily.com...] If offers both pro and con.

You have obviously researched the science of AGW denial extensively and would probably be able to obtain a degree in it - if there were one

141

Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:10:52pm

re: #135 wrenchwench

That's straining towards Andromeda.

Sounds like a viral strain.

142

Obdicut Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:10:59pm

re: #134 jamesfirecat

Frontier psychiatrist

Youtube Video

143

HappyWarrior Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:11:08pm

re: #136 ggt

Frank Sinatra has been reincarnated!

Ole' Blue Eyes!

(cuteness warning)

It's cuter than the cats that look like Hitler. Now if only it can sing or even meow My Way.

144

Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:11:32pm

re: #139 Learned Mother of Zion

I don't remember that scene. The most memorable scene in that book, as I said before, was the cannibals eating the celebrity.

I mainly remember the little poisonous sucker fish they carried in a plastic baggie.

High Tech stuff there.

145

Eventual Carrion Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:11:41pm

re: #86 carlaschluge

There is no overall warming trend, unless, of course, you're an AGW wingnut.

So says the prophet. Tell us more, oh knowledgeable one. One thing that has been bugging me is how the fuck does quantum entanglement work, it is just fucking amazing.

146

Lidane Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:11:56pm

re: #130 RayFerd

Maybe he will after his dentist does his open heart surgery. They both have medical degrees.

Wasn't there some douche in Congress during the Schiavo nonsense making medical statements about her condition based on videos because he had a medical degree, and it turned out he was a cardiologist or some specialty other than neurology?

Taking Crichton seriously on AGW is pretty much like that.

147

Gus Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:12:02pm

re: #140 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

You have obviously researched the science of AGW denial extensively and would probably be able to obtain a degree in it - if there were one

You can probably get one at Liberty University.

148

Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:12:29pm

re: #145 RayFerd

So says the prophet. Tell us more, oh knowledgeable one. One thing that has been bugging me is how the fuck does quantum entanglement work, it is just fucking amazing.

Temporal and Spatial Quantum Entanglement is the tool of the Cat Overlord.

Don't try to understand it, just accept it and all will be well.

149

Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:13:03pm

re: #147 Gus

You can probably get one at Liberty University.

//

They sell the diabetes supplies too, don't they?

150

lawhawk Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:13:18pm

re: #141 ggt

Next thing you're going to tell me is that scientists have replicated dinosaurs on an island off the coast of Costa Rica, and are preparing to open it as an attraction. But first, I've got to go searching for diamonds in the lost city of Zinj.

151

Charles Johnson Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:13:18pm

re: #122 carlaschluge

Newsflash. I have researched AGW . . . extensively. Bottom line: there is no conclusive evidence that man, or CO2, is causing the earth to warm. If you don't mind, for everyone's edification, an excellent site that I review often is [Link: climatedebatedaily.com...] If offers both pro and con.

OK then, you're being deliberately ignorant, a very common right wing condition these days.

152

sffilk Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:13:51pm

I signed the petition. It seemed the proper thing to do.

153

Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:13:53pm

re: #143 HappyWarrior

It's cuter than the cats that look like Hitler. Now if only it can sing or even meow My Way.

I'm thinking he could if he wanted to.

Consonants and vowel sounds are in the right order.

MEEEOOOOOooowaay!

154

Eventual Carrion Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:13:54pm

re: #90 Gus

Illuminating! You mean like this?

[snip] Eventually he came to believe in auras, astral projection, and clairvoyance.

Clairvoyance? Who could have seen that coming?

155

Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:15:05pm

re: #150 lawhawk

Next thing you're going to tell me is that scientists have replicated dinosaurs on an island off the coast of Costa Rica, and are preparing to open it as an attraction. But first, I've got to go searching for diamonds in the lost city of Zinj.

I hear there is a replicating virus that works on the RNA in the blood serum of lemurs that can actually turn them into gold.

156

Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:15:23pm

re: #152 sffilk

I signed the petition. It seemed the proper thing to do.

outlawing oxygen?

157

TedStriker Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:15:27pm

re: #126 Targetpractice

But maybe our latest troll is right, we should be looking to Crichton for the answers on some of the biggest worries facing our planet right now. Like, say, the dangers of a virus coming from space that thrives on energy and will kill us all by causing our blood to spontaneously coagulate!

//

And dinosaurs that we cloned back from extinction running amok in our cities!

///

158

Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:15:54pm

re: #157 talon_262

And dinosaurs that we cloned back from extinction running amok in our cities!

///

We have lots of dinosaurs, they are called alligators and they rule Florida.

159

Charles Johnson Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:16:23pm

re: #122 carlaschluge

Newsflash. I have researched AGW . . . extensively. Bottom line: there is no conclusive evidence that man, or CO2, is causing the earth to warm.

And by the way, I have to say that I really don't believe you've researched anything. You're parroting false talking points from denial sites, and you've convinced yourself that this is "research." It's not.

160

carlaschluge Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:17:06pm

re: #109 Obdicut

The best way to make your name in science is to defeat a prevailing theory. Just adding to the general knowledge can make a great career, but the real legends of science are the groundbreakers, the ones who produce the unexpected result.

This is why the deniers are such idiots. If anyone could disprove AGW, scientifically-- if they could prove, for example, that something that overrode our carbon input was in the way, some sort of reverse of what's actually happening with the feedback cycle-- they would be hailed as a hero.

The likelihood of that is vanishingly, vanishingly remote. Everything we have seen shows that CO2 accelerates warming which accelerates CO2 from other sources, until those are depleted.

Actually, geological charts show the opposite. They show that increased levels of CO2 do not drive warming, but that warming causes levels of CO2 of increase. The theory is that oceans as they warm are unable to hold as much CO2 and release CO2 into the atmosphere.

Also, conclusion flies in the face of the fact that there has been no warming since 1998.

161

carlaschluge Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:17:51pm

re: #123 Lidane

How about reading the book, then drawing a conclusion?

162

erik_t Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:17:57pm

re: #160 carlaschluge

Actually, geological charts show the opposite. They show that increased levels of CO2 do not drive warming, but that warming causes levels of CO2 of increase. The theory is that oceans as they warm are unable to hold as much CO2 and release CO2 into the atmosphere.

Also, conclusion flies in the face of the fact that there has been no warming since 1998.

How the fuck do I chart?

Moron.

163

carlaschluge Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:18:19pm

re: #159 Charles Johnson

And by the way, I have to say that I really don't believe you've researched anything. You're parroting false talking points from denial sites, and you've convinced yourself that this is "research." It's not.

You would. Typical AGW wingnut response.

164

Lidane Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:19:19pm

re: #160 carlaschluge

Image: CitationNeeded.jpg

You're either a pathetic troll or the most dense, deliberately ignorant person I've read on this site in a while. It's just sad.

165

lawhawk Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:19:27pm

We could use a new annefrank...looks like we've got a candidate.

166

Obdicut Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:19:33pm

re: #160 carlaschluge

Citation? you know, those things that people who actually have facts on their side use?

For example:

[Link: www.skepticalscience.com...]

167

Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:19:39pm

Really, I think the best visual is the then and now photos showing that Greenland isn't Ice anymore.

168

Gus Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:19:59pm

re: #163 carlaschluge

You would. Typical AGW wingnut response.

What's your IQ? 167?

169

Feline Fearless Leader Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:20:17pm

re: #95 Gus

We cause our diseases. We are directly responsible for any illness that happens to us.
-- Michael Crichton

That would explain voting Republican in the current situation.
//

170

Coracle Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:20:41pm

re: #160 carlaschluge

Actually, geological charts show the opposite. They show that increased levels of CO2 do not drive warming, but that warming causes levels of CO2 of increase. The theory is that oceans as they warm are unable to hold as much CO2 and release CO2 into the atmosphere.

Also, conclusion flies in the face of the fact that there has been no warming since 1998.

Ye gods.

CO2 can both lead and follow. When it leads it's a forcing effect. When it follows, it is a positive feedback and is an _additional_ forcing effect. It is leading now because we humans are pumping it into the atmosphere.

"No warming since 1998" is such an old, stupid, easily disproved chestnut it doesn't even merit a repetition of response.

171

Lidane Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:21:00pm

re: #161 carlaschluge

How about reading the book, then drawing a conclusion?

I don't need to read a fiction novel by an anthropologist with a medical degree to know that he's unqualified to talk about AGW.

I'll take actual research by actual climate scientists, thanks.

172

Obdicut Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:21:06pm

re: #167 ggt

Oh god then you get people whining about vineyards in England in the Middle Ages.

173

William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:21:25pm

re: #163 carlaschluge

Paging DF! Paging DF! Please report to the grill! A troll is being prepped.

174

Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:22:14pm

re: #172 Obdicut

Oh god then you get people whining about vineyards in England in the Middle Ages.

Bad for the wine and it's all OUR FAULT!!!!!

LOL

175

carlaschluge Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:22:41pm

re: #169 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

That would explain voting Republican in the current situation.
//

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs."
Karl Marx

That would explain voting Democrat.

176

Gus Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:23:14pm

Oh brother.

177

Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:23:25pm

re: #172 Obdicut

Oh god then you get people whining about vineyards in England in the Middle Ages.

Then again, those of us in the MidWest whose allergies have not had a break might be inclined to think the climate is changing.

Weirdest fucking winter ever in Chicago.

178

Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:24:32pm

I have to take my Mommy to the store.

Have a great afternoon all!

179

erik_t Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:24:43pm

re: #171 Lidane

I don't need to read a fiction novel by an anthropologist with a medical degree to know that he's unqualified to talk about AGW.

I'll take actual research by actual climate scientists, thanks.

TEACH THE CONTROVERSY!!!!1

180

Obdicut Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:24:47pm

re: #175 carlaschluge

You know, if that were actually possible to achieve, it wouldn't be a terrible system. It's just not possible. There's no path there.

181

jamesfirecat Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:25:33pm

re: #180 Obdicut

You know, if that were actually possible to achieve, it wouldn't be a terrible system. It's just not possible. There's no path there.

Same with abstinence as an anti-contraception technique.

182

Eventual Carrion Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:26:33pm

re: #163 carlaschluge

You would. Typical AGW wingnut response.

Man, congrats on your Masters degree from DickHead U.

183

TedStriker Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:30:48pm

re: #163 carlaschluge

You know, us rational people who put some stock in science and the scientific method tend to pay attention when what seems to be a majority of climate scientists (not just scientists or others that are in unrelated fields (such as Harrison Schmidt and Michael Crichton) is trying to let people know that AGW is a real problem and that that there are steps to we can take to mitigate it.

When the people that you lean on for information to discredit or discount AGW have a huge vested financial interest in continuing the status quo, that seriously undermines your position, as well as calling into question your critical thinking skills.

184

TedStriker Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:31:49pm

re: #168 Gus

What's your IQ? 167?

Ha! I wonder if carlaschluge frets about playing 3-d chess in a 2-d world...

185

kirkspencer Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:35:17pm

re: #160 carlaschluge

[snip]
Also, conclusion flies in the face of the fact that there has been no warming since 1998.

This link is to the graph of the GISS data I already told you to download. Look at the chart.

Notice that 1998 has an extremely large spike. Nothing past it is higher. Thus "warming stopped."

Notice it's an abnormal spike that stands significantly above both 1997 and 1999. If you use 1999 as your starting point every year after it is higher.

If you do a simple trend analysis of the numbers this chart is displaying (it's free to download the numbers) you'll see the temperature is increasing. If you do it more formally, using multi-year averaging, you'll see the temperature is increasing.

In fact, the only way you get "warming has stopped" is by cherrypicking a record year as your starting point.

186

Coracle Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:35:42pm

My second favorite climate change graphic. (m4v movie)

From here.

Although "favorite" is a loaded term. I'm not very happy with what it says.

187

TedStriker Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:37:24pm

re: #175 carlaschluge

When you can't attack the message, attack the messengers, right?

BTW, you can just bugger off now.

188

Feline Fearless Leader Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:42:27pm

I think a troll merge is imminent.

At which point we will be told this is excellent (tapping of finger tips) scientific data at (site name redacted) showing that concern for global warming causes a increased desire to have sexual relations outside of marriage and then get an abortion.
/

189

Coracle Tue, Feb 28, 2012 12:56:31pm

re: #166 Obdicut

Citation? you know, those things that people who actually have facts on their side use?

For example:

[Link: www.skepticalscience.com...]

This page's Figs. 1 and 2 exemplify the mindset that needs fighting.

190

Charles Johnson Tue, Feb 28, 2012 1:11:47pm

I remember when there were a lot of creationists hanging around LGF for some odd reason, and they would regularly dump long lists of false talking points, often with citations to articles (never actual links), and quotes from obscure scientists and purported scientists.

Now I see the climate change deniers doing exactly the same thing. Right wing science denial tactics stay pretty much constant - only the targets change.

191

Charles Johnson Tue, Feb 28, 2012 1:16:39pm

Another similarity: when you'd actually look up a creationist's quote or article citation, you'd invariably find that they had: 1) distorted or changed it, 2) taken it wildly out of context, or 3) totally made the whole thing up.

The same holds true for the right wing climate denial bots. There are sites that do nothing but feed the denial community with a constant stream of bullshit talking points, and the more industrious wingnuts promptly seize on them, go forth, and multiply the ignorance all over every blog and website that will let them.

Spy Mode Auto

This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Video: The Heartland Institute’s Department of Education

► LGF Headlines

► Top 10 Comments

► Bottom Comments

► Recent Comments

► Tools/Info

► Tag Cloud