How profitable are banks now? Like in terms of Return On Investment, etc.

Barney Fank and Fannie Mae

[Link: www.wsj.com...]

You can’t just make money out of thin air like this

Well, you sort of can for a while, but then it goes back where it came from.

Jamie Gorelik and Fannie Mes

[Link: volokh.com...]

re: #1 jwb7605

How profitable are banks now? Like in terms of Return On Investment, etc.

That's the problem. You can't trust their financial statements. You can't trust their portfolio valuations. Some could be very undervalued, many are probably overvalued. Trouble is, you don't know which is which.

Well all those people who spent their entire paycheck and didn't invest are looking pretty smart now I guess.
/

From Huffington Post

...when Palin finished second runner-up in the Miss Alaska pageant, it is unlikely that the outcome sat well with either of them. Few experts know what drives serial killers to kill serially - but later, Palin winning the "Miss Congeniality" award, must have been icing on the cake.

A very deadly cake, one might add. With murderous frosting. Made of death.

And murder.

Hehe, you just can't make this stuff up.

Obama and Fannie Mae

[Link: money.cnn.com...]

re: #4 taxfreekiller

Facts count.

ps

There is no money to be made via the global warming fraud.

Al Gore is making a killing selling carbon offsets. Basically selling nothing to people who are complete morons(50% of American population).

Used money for sale.

re: #7 Son of the Black Dog

That's the problem. You can't trust their financial statements. You can't trust their portfolio valuations. Some could be very undervalued, many are probably overvalued. Trouble is, you don't know which is which.

If that's true, Sarah Palin's comment today is right on target.
I didn't understand, though, exactly what she was referring to when she said the present system is "outdated".

There are, I suspect, several other Americans as dumb as me on the subject.

Goldman Sachs alone distributed $16.5 billion in bonuses to its 26,000 employees. I’m sorry, I think it’s unbelievable. You can’t just make money out of thin air like this, and underlaying this there were enormous risks being taken.

I wish I could pull money out of thin air for my business...is the air thinner toward the top of the room or the floor?

...that's an actual article by Greg Gutfeld on Huffington Post.

Goldman Sachs alone distributed $16.5 billion in bonuses to its 26,000 employees.

In 2006 alone? Why?

re: #8 Metal Man

Well all those people who spent their entire paycheck and didn't invest are looking pretty smart now I guess.
/

Especailly since world will end on 12/12/12.(According to ancient Maya)

If the banks would not have giving loans to people that had no credit or means to pay them back then I'm pretty sure the banks wouldn't be in the trouble that they are in now,yes I'm sure the markets will come around they always do and no I don't like it because that's my 401k that's taking the hit but in the long run it makes the market stronger so I hope to come about.

re: #11 DeliLama

From Huffington Post

Hehe, you just can't make this stuff up.

It's so over the top that I have to wonder if it is a put on.

If it is real, somebody is in serious need of a padded room and a long sleeve jacket with buckles in the back.

re: #10 buzzsawmonkey

Of course there is. Get people scared of ghosts and devils, and you can sell them all kinds of amulets.

Yeah; I don't think the St. Christopher talisman has anything to worry about.

Nor do the vendors to religious cynics of the Buddy Christ:

[Link: jayandsilentbob.com...]

Looks like it's gonna be President Barack Obama. What's next? Sharia law here too?

As a longtime investor, I can say that if derivatives blow up, it's going to make a very terrible mess.

I’m skeptical of this (possibly out of context snippet of) analysis.

(As an aside, you can tell Spiegel is salivating at the thought of possible US misery. “Never ending crisis” ? wtf? Barf.)

re: #19 MandyManners

In 2006 alone? Why?

Better yet, why wasn't I included on their mail-a-check list?

I don't feel sorry for any of these guys. All the CEOs should be imprisoned...and the employees, well, most can retire for life.

re: #1 jwb7605

How profitable are banks now? Like in terms of Return On Investment, etc.

Commercial banks had a return on equity in the 2nd Quarter 2008 of 3.51%. 2nd Quarter 2007 was 12.24%.

The FDIC has good statistics.

All the real things are still there

Roofing

Siding

Doors

Windows

Pasta in the Pantry

A water heater

Kid's rooms

Kids

Car

Tires

It if the flim-flam artists who are at fault here, and the people of the public who wanted something for nothing.

re: #29 Dahveed

Commercial banks had a return on equity in the 2nd Quarter 2008 of 3.51%. 2nd Quarter 2007 was 12.24%.

The FDIC has good statistics.

You can squeeze a turnip for only so long before there's no blood left in it.

I seem to remember a similar thing back in the 80's with the S&L scandal.

Is this more of the same? (Financial illiterate, here.)

re: #22 Syrah

It's so over the top that I have to wonder if it is a put on.

If it is real, somebody is in serious need of a padded room and a long sleeve jacket with buckles in the back.

I laughed myself silly reading it.

How does this compare with the dot.com bubble meltdown after the Clinton administration, in definition and/or in scope? Any econo-lizards out there to fill me in?

re: #23 buzzsawmonkey

That is very bad craziness.

Yeah, I'm surprised it didn't crash their server with the error

ERROR 489B11: BAD CRAZINESS

re: #11 DeliLama

From Huffington Post

Hehe, you just can't make this stuff up.

No you can't. Isn't that line lifted from the Sandra Bullock film, Miss Congeniality?

re: #19 MandyManners

In 2006 alone? Why?

Because they knew no one was watching or cared...it was SOP. Free money for everyone...I'm looking for the a link from 2005 or 06 about the Xmas bonuses that were paid to everyone.

re: #31 Salamantis

You can squeeze a turnip for only so long before there's no blood left in it.

These things happen every 10-15 years with the banks. We always get through it alright.

re: #30 Ojoe

Excellent point! Warren Buffet won't invest in shilly-shally stuff.

re: #22 Syrah

It's so over the top that I have to wonder if it is a put on.

If it is real, somebody is in serious need of a padded room and a long sleeve jacket with buckles in the back.

If that's the same Gutfeld that hosts "Red Eye Express" on late night Fox and runs this web site, I guarantee you it's a put-on.

Mark Levin is talking about Obama, James Johnson and Gorlelik ans ACORN

re: #39 Whiterasta

Piss on the fat cats.

Obama tried to block troop withdrawal from Iraq.

"He asked the Iraq leaders why we were not prepared to delay an agreement until after the US elections and the formation of a new administration in Washington," Zebari said in an interview.
Obama insisted that Congress should be involved in negotiations on the status of US troops - and that it was in the interests of both sides not to have an agreement negotiated by the Bush administration in its "state of weakness and political confusion."

The Son Of A Bitch.

re: #21 tee866

If the banks would not have giving loans to people that had no credit or means to pay them back then I'm pretty sure the banks wouldn't be in the trouble that they are in now,yes I'm sure the markets will come around they always do and no I don't like it because that's my 401k that's taking the hit but in the long run it makes the market stronger so I hope to come about.

If the banks who loaned people money who couldn't pay it back on the terms they signed up for how about cutting them some slack? You know, something instead of nothing. But no. They foreclosed. Greedy bastards. Trying to flip the properties to make their own profits and ended up crashing the market.
Since I've been around greedy capitalists and crooks have screwed us routinely every 10 years or so.

you know how these banks will make money in the future? By financing businesses that make money, create jobs and reduce the trade defecit.

something they should have been doing all along.

re: #11 DeliLama

It is a joke, for some reason they allow him to post there and he pretty much just makes fun of the lib's all the time.

re: #38 Dahveed

These things happen every 10-15 years with the banks. We always get through it alright.

That's what the grampa rabbit told me this A.M. when I reported the overnight news. But then I heard Greenspan bemoaning the 'hundred year worst crisis' - and he's no friend to this administration or Bernake, is he?

Today's buy out of Merrill-Lynch and chapter 11 state of the Lehmans has to do with commercial/business loans; whereas Freddie and Fannie were about the problems with respect to residential loans (to ordinary householders -- mortagage defaults). (the commercial/business loan problem will potentially have more serious ripple effects -- or so I've heard...they also save new regulatory measures need to be put in place.)

re: #36 CyanSnowHawk

No you can't. Isn't that line lifted from the Sandra Bullock film, Miss Congeniality?

The moose come home to roost!

It was the usual busy day at the bank where I work. After a glance at the line of waiting customers, a harried-looking man came up to the side counter and demanded, "What do I have to do to change the address on my account?" Without missing a beat, the teller replied, "You have to move."

re: #41 buzzsawmonkey

What I find thigh-slappingly funny is the poor brute's ascribing significance to various coincidental dates. My late uncle--not a friend of superstition--used to say, "Of course there are coincidences. There are only 365 days in a year."

A broken clock is right twice a day. What goes around comes around. Every thing ends up where it should be---in a hole.

re: #45 kansas

Absolute bastards they are, making it harder for families trying to raise kids, and who do they think will take care of them when they are old? Health care workers who were kids once, thank you very much.

correction for #49 -- that's "say" not "save"

re: #19 MandyManners

In 2006 alone? Why?

Here's part of it.

re: #50 Salamantis

The moose come home to roostroast!

re: #18 DeliLama

...that's an actual article by Greg Gutfeld on Huffington Post.

Palin Dementia is a deadly virus, it spreads vaster than Ebola, it is global and can not be contained, like HIV it only infects a certain class, in this case liberals.

re: #48 runrabbitrun

Greenspan needs to keep quiet. Every time he opens his mouth the market tanks.

I took a wallop today. A bad wallop. Oye. : (

Let me just say something about banks. I've pored through the FDIC database (which is open to the public, fabulous source of analysis) and have gotten a pretty good sense of where banks are at. Overall in the US, banks are solid. In Florida, banks are doing badly. The average bank in Florida is losing money right now. However, the capitalization ratios are still pretty good for the average bank in Florida and around the US. I'd say the system should survive quite well, but with some very visible explosions in places.

Definitely take the time to learn how to use the FDIC database. You can compare any group of banks (or individual bank) at any point in time to any other group at any other time. You can get extremely detailed information about all facets of the bank including non-accruing loans broken down by type and number of days late.

re: #40 jwb7605

If that's the same Gutfeld that hosts "Red Eye Express" on late night Fox and runs this web site, I guarantee you it's a put-on.

Good.

Looking at the comments on the HuffPo page, i see that the over crazy attacks on Palin are not sitting well with some of the HuffPo posters.

There's really nothing wrong with the idea of mortgage-backed securities. The problem was of course that system failure allowed the risk assessment of the MBS products to become wildly out of whack with their actual risk.

re: #47 caliredst8r

It is a joke, for some reason they allow him to post there and he pretty much just makes fun of the lib's all the time.

And the problem is?

re: #43 Ojoe

Piss on the fat cats.

Go easy on the Mama Winger references.

Ok, so the deadly cake article is a joke. Thankfully.

Greg Gutfield's website

Obama's conversation about the Iraqi withdrawal

[Link: thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com...]

It started with this f-head back here, after that they started digging out the other ones.

There should be a 9/11 type governmental investigation of the financial sector aka Wall Street , etc. etc. and someone else I won't mention...

re: #55 jorline

Here's part of it.

Another here...more info at the bottom of this linky.

re: #36 CyanSnowHawk

No you can't. Isn't that line lifted from the Sandra Bullock film, Miss Congeniality?

Yes, and (after PIMF a bit late on my other link), I absolutely positively guarantee you that the whole article is a big bunch of satire.

The exact same article is on his web site.

He runs a "sanitary version" of Howard Stern on The Red Eye Express.

I posted this article from the NY Post from March last night and I will post it again for the benefit of those that didn't see it. I think the banks deserve plenty of blame, but the government created so much difficulty in the name of fairness for all.

From the current hand-wringing, you'd think that the banks came up with the idea of looser underwriting standards on their own, with regulators just asleep on the job. In fact, it was the regulators who relaxed these standards - at the behest of community groups and "progressive" political forces.

(snip)

Sound crazy? You bet. Those "outdated" standards existed to limit defaults. But bank regulators required the loosened underwriting standards, with approval by politicians and the chattering class. A 1995 strengthening of the Community Reinvestment Act required banks to find ways to provide mortgages to their poorer communities. It also let community activists intervene at yearly bank reviews, shaking the banks down for large pots of money.

Banks that got poor reviews were punished; some saw their merger plans frustrated; others faced direct legal challenges by the Justice Department.

re: #63 kansas

The problem is that people are taking him seriously, yeah, I know, he is on that website so that makes him suspicious. But he is pretty funny! I guess they keep him around as the token conservative, they can point at him and claim they are fair and balanced.

Glad I started buying Washington Mutual a couple months ago. Down 58% since.

/sarc

re: #63 kansas

And the problem is?

The problem is the libs don't get it first time around.

I know, I know, /and the problem is?

obama's tax plan is going to work real well
YEAH RIGHT

whoo!

Levin just riffed on this Fannie and Freddie, a huge number of the officers of those companies are former (D)s. Jammie Gorelick (the wall) earned 26 million in 1 year.

re: #72 Dahveed

I posted this article from the NY Post from March last night and I will post it again for the benefit of those that didn't see it. I think the banks deserve plenty of blame, but the government created so much difficulty in the name of fairness for all.

Exactly, the community organizers were working for looser standards in targetted areas, then it spread everywhere. Who does that remind me of?

re: #59 Sizzlack

I took a wallop today. A bad wallop. Oye. : (

I don't think this will help but you're not alone.

And I *am* glad that the government didn't bail out Lehman, even if it meant something of a bloodbath on Wall Street today. (Which could have been a lot worse IMHO.)

re: #73 caliredst8r

The problem is that people are taking him seriously, yeah, I know, he is on that website so that makes him suspicious. But he is pretty funny! I guess they keep him around as the token conservative, they can point at him and claim they are fair and balanced.

With Gutfeld, if he were on another (let's say Hot Air) site, he could also be construed as the "token liberal". I've seen him go both ways.

Latest outburst of dementia:

Sarah Palin's tanning bed.

While I have never frequented a tanning salon, and it is considered a frivolous luxury in the "lower 48" it may be a health issue if one lives in a region that gets very little sunlight for 6 months of the year.

re: #82 jwb7605

With Gutfeld, if he were on another (let's say Hot Air) site, he could also be construed as the "token liberal". I've seen him go both ways.

Yeah; he's an equal opportunity reamer.

I talked to my broker today and asked him about the employees at LEH. Folks, it sucks, most of those had huge amounts of LEH stock in their 401K's and are pretty much wiped out. While I am happy to see accountability on Wall Street, I am also saddened that so many people have to start over from scratch.

Disclosure: I owned a good bit of LEH at around $16. You win some you lose some. LEH will be a 2008 tax loss.

re: #80 GeeWiz

I don't think this will help but you're not alone.

You are not alone, I took a wallop today to.

Is it time to start sewing my jewels into my corset?

re: #19 MandyManners

Goldman Sachs alone distributed $16.5 billion in bonuses to its 26,000 employees.

In 2006 alone? Why?

The point is there were ten (twenty?) other investment banks and hedge funds doing the same thing on the billion-dollar scale and also on the same scale in 2005, and 2004, and to lesser scale, for the previous ten, fifteen years. In 2007, not so much, and this year, hardly at all.

/just in case you were seriously asking, but the point is, maybe half a trillion dollars were milked from the system over a decade, the process not being new, but the scale probably was.

re: #83 Alouette

Sarah Palin's tanning bed.

This will backfire on liberals for one simple reason. Roughly 50% of the readers will realize that she's naked when she gets into that thing.

I only wish that there would be an investigation of Chris Dodd(D-CT) and his transgressions as Senate Banking Chairman. He reaps, we sow. As a CT resident, I despise this man!

re: #45 kansas

If the banks who loaned people money who couldn't pay it back on the terms they signed up for how about cutting them some slack? You know, something instead of nothing. But no. They foreclosed. Greedy bastards. Trying to flip the properties to make their own profits and ended up crashing the market.
Since I've been around greedy capitalists and crooks have screwed us routinely every 10 years or so.

The problem is that the banks and mortgage companies came up with loans that relied on unicorns flying for the people to be able to pay them back in the future; things like "interest only loans", etc.

And I think that got people who would never be able to pay.

Also, I think many who fell for one of these loan shark deals didn't know how to deal with a bank to ask for some kind of change in terms. They just skipped payments until the bank foreclosed.

(I have a 25-year fixed mortgage; the house is still worth more than I paid 10 years ago, and I'm paying probably 1/2 of the typical mortgage payment in Mass. Got the house when properties in the town bottomed out after a nearby facility closed.)

Need to be going, so this is a drive-by post.

re: #89 taxfreekiller

Leave the corset,
use your brain.

A bejeweled tiara for Mandy.

Silver lining: Crude continues to drop in price. ($95/bbl Nymex)

re: #79 Thanos

Exactly, the community organizers were working for looser standards in targetted areas, then it spread everywhere. Who does that remind me of?

And the media will never look to "community activists" for their complicity in all of this. It is all the fault of those greedy banks.

Well, we already got some o' the Ronulans claiming there'll be a bank run tomorrow.

/my mattress is little and green too

re: #91 DeliLama

Sarah Palin's tanning bed.

This will backfire on liberals for one simple reason. Roughly 50% of the readers will realize that she's naked when she gets into that thing.

Lemme know when her tancam comes online...;~)

re: #88 buzzsawmonkey

Cash and CD's work well in times like these. I think the Stock Market hits sub 10K before a real turnaround ensues.

BTW, I think WM is the next domino to fall.

re: #83 Alouette

Latest outburst of dementia:

Sarah Palin's tanning bed.

While I have never frequented a tanning salon, and it is considered a frivolous luxury in the "lower 48" it may be a health issue if one lives in a region that gets very little sunlight for 6 months of the year.

Oh! My the Palin's spending THEIR money on things THEY want.
The Horror!

What till the get a load of the Palin's guns and ammo spending!

And, although it may seem counterintuitive, the dollar rose today against the Euro and pound sterling.

re: #93 Kosh's Shadow

More: you miss the amateur speculators.

For instance, when the music stopped at the end of 06, the mayor of Stockton got caught with six properties he couldn't sell, or pay for.

There's been a lot of that.

re: #87 MandyManners

Is it time to start sewing my jewels into my corset?

Invest in canned food and ammunition!

/

re: #17 jorline

I wish I could pull money out of thin air for my business...is the air thinner toward the top of the room or the floor?

It did not come out of thin air - it came out of your 401(k) and other investments - mutual funds - etc. Deal with brokers and management fees ... expect to be fleeced.

[Link: www.thepiratesofmanhattan.com...]

re: #91 DeliLama

Sarah Palin's tanning bed.

This will backfire on liberals for one simple reason. Roughly 50% of the readers will realize that she's naked when she gets into that thing.

You now have my attention.

re: #101 Occasional Reader

And, although it may seem counterintuitive, the dollar rose today against the Euro and pound sterling.

Great. Now export industries will be hurting, too. As will euro vacation concerns. But at least consumers will be able to buy even cheaper foreign crap. And the per-barrel oil proce should drop a bit.

re: #99 jetpilot1101

BTW, I think WM is the next domino to fall.

I was under the impression that Washington Mutual had overcome their problems. Is my impression wrong? Should I be worried? WM is my mortgage carrier.

re: #96 Dahveed

And the media will never look to "community activists" for their complicity in all of this. It is all the fault of those greedy banks.

I happen to be familiar with some of the strong arm tactics that were used against BofA and Wells Fargo to strongarm them into "Neighborhood Advantage" etc. Luckily they both pretty much got out before they got to deep, reset the standards again.

re: #8 Metal Man

Some of us can't help that - and we ain't poor, unless you count the middle-class in that 'bracket'.

/OTOH - I didn't buy my house with dirty money.

Some good stuff here:

But I know the real reason why every single elitist media type is so scared of her. They have never met her. And by her, I don`t mean Sarah Palin – I mean "her" – an actual normal woman with a bunch of kids, an average husband, no desire to watch "the L Word," and definitely not up on her Chakras. She`s scary to these folks the way Walmart is scary to them: both are alien to someone accustomed to blogging about Project Runway and alternative medicine. They won`t go there, because they`ve never been there.

To them, hating Sarah Palin is a symptom of larger bigotry against "the rest of us." The normal. If they saw her at a cocktail party, they would run away from her with a smirk. She's the anti-Obama, the anti-New York Times, the anti-Alec Baldwin. the anti-"everything that can be ordered in the back pages of the Utne Reader."

re: #99 jetpilot1101

Cash and CD's work well in times like these. I think the Stock Market hits sub 10K before a real turnaround ensues.

BTW, I think WM is the next domino to fall.

That, in fact, will create a complete crisis of spirit if and when it happens.

unn...price

re: #106 Salamantis

Great. Now export industries will be hurting, too. As will euro vacation concerns. But at least consumers will be able to buy even cheaper foreign crap. And the per-barrel oil proce should drop a bit.

Oil dropped below $96 I believe. So we got that going for us.

re: #96 Dahveed

Right now, I'm watching the Greenlining Institute gear up to insist that nonprofits give to more "diverse" organizations.

That means the ones they approve of. Not the ones the funders think are worthy.

That's part of what happened to the mortgage lenders. There's plenty of blame to go around, but you're right, the "community activists" will not receive their share of the blame.

The Masons will get more blame than they will.

Even with genuises running the financial sector I could swear that 10 times nine still equals 90.

I'm getting a degree next week to put up near my PC

To understand how stuff like this can happen, you might want to read Roger Lowenstein's book, "When Genius Failed: The Rise and Fall of Long-Term Capital Management."

The basic strategy of LTCM came down to placing huge bets on events that were very likely to happen. Because such bets can return only fractions of a penny on each dollar wagered, LTCM made highly leveraged bets- if they placed a $100 million bet, $97 million of the money might be borrowed.

The author compares this to "picking up nickels in front of a bulldozer." Apparently there were plenty of nickels, and they were not all that hard to pick up- but, the consequences of even a small stumble could be, well, unpleasant.

To put it another way, doubling your bet until you win (and then leaving the game) sounds like a safe strategy, and it usually is-- but, there's always that small chance that you'll run out of money before a run of bad luck turns in your favor. Therefore, if you keep playing games like this, you're likely to have a long string of small, steady gains come to an end with a final, massively catastrophic loss.

What amazes me about "high finance" is the essential simplicity of much of it-- once the flim-flam has been removed.

re: #106 Salamantis

Great. Now export industries will be hurting, too.

I am of the school that thinks a stronger dollar at this point is better for us. Yes, it's true that with a weaker dollar, US manufacturers tend to export more; but they get paid less for what they make, so to speak. And to the extent they have to rely on any imported components (which is almost always the case... at the very least, imported oil), a weak dollar actually hurts the competitiveness of a US manufacturer versus a European or Japanese counterpart.

The dollar has been undervalued; a comeback is a healthy thing.

re: #45 kansas

Since I've been around greedy capitalists and crooks have screwed us routinely every 10 years or so.

You said greedy capitalist as though it were a bad thing? It's the crook part that worries me.

re: #83 Alouette

Oh, yes, an excellent use of a frivolous vanity. Being sun deprived for long periods will result in Vitamin D deficiency.Bet tan beds are very popular in Alaska.

re: #107 GeeWiz

I was under the impression that Washington Mutual had overcome their problems. Is my impression wrong? Should I be worried? WM is my mortgage carrier.

If WM goes down your mtg will be snapped up on the secondary market and you will still get to pay it. not to worry.

re: #80 GeeWiz

I don't think this will help but you're not alone.

I know I know. But it feels better to at least say it aloud. Wallop. Terrible...NYC felt very strange today to me.

re: #115 buzzsawmonkey

When in the Corset of human events, it becomes necessary for one person to conceal in her undergarments' bands the wherewithal which has connected her with her purchases, and to assume among the financial powers of the neighborhood, the separate and financially independent station to which the Laws of Economics and of Economics' God entitle her, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that she should declare the techniques which enable her to embark upon the concealment.

Are you trying to get into Mandy's unmentionables?
/ ;-P

re: #107 GeeWiz

Your mortgage will be fine if and when the FEDs take over the bank. My friend's mortgage from IndyMac is still legit.

As for WM, I think they are going under. Most folks think they have bypassed the problems of the sector but IMHO, you can't trust the books or what the PR's tell you. Look at LEH, up until a few months ago, they were turning a profit. So how does a 158 YO company go from boom to bust in 2 quarters...they were cooking the books. I'm not saying WM is any different but if I had to gamble, I'd bet against WM remaining solvent. OTOH, if JPM buys them out at $5, you can make a ton of money buying down here. I wouldn't bet the farm but that is a possibility.

re: #113 Dahveed

Oil dropped below $96 I believe. So we got that going for us.

Not very comforting when one considers the losses suffered on "the street" today. The losses I suffered today would easily cover $300.00 per barrel oil. Kinda sucks to be me I guess.

re: #107 GeeWiz

I was under the impression that Washington Mutual had overcome their problems. Is my impression wrong? Should I be worried? WM is my mortgage carrier.

WaMu will be taken over by the Bank of England, and will henceforth be known as Wham!UK.

/

I don't post much, but the lizards are too smart to be led astray here. I've been on Wall Street for 20 years. Two things caused the recent problems, both changes in government regulation. First, last summer they changed the rules on shorting stocks. Previously, you could not push the price of a stock down by selling shares you didn't own. Now you can. Second, they required all banks to "mark to market" all their assets for accounting purposes. What that means is if you have a $100,000 mortgage, and you are still paying on it, in the old days the bank showed that on the books at $100,000. Now, if they think you might not pay part of it, even if you are up to date, they need to mark it down, say to $95,000. Your loan, which is a liability to you, is an asset to the bank. When they mark it down, they need to mark down their equity too, and need to raise more. So, you have guys shorting the stocks of banks, and the banks can't raise equity since the stocks are cratering, combined with the need for more money from having to mark down positions. Death spiral. If these businesses had stayed private, or the regulations weren't changed, they'd all be fine. This problem, and the demise of Bear Stearns, Lehman, and Merrill, were caused by lousy government policy. It's a classic case of unanticipated consequences: take two "good" regulatory changes, and blammo, the US financial system has left the building.

Despite my rant about the overimportance attached to the candidates' performances in the presidential and VP debates, if this HAD to happen, I'm glad that it happened before the debates.

At least McCain/Palin will have their chance to educate some of the indies and Dems on the role Democrats and their programs played in the bank meltdowns. And I hope Mac - or at least Palin - has the cahones to remind voters which candidates profited most from Freddie and Fannie, Countrywide, and other mortgage schemes.

re: #114 Dianna

Rush was talking about it today. So, that will mean that the media will completely discount it and blame the banks only.

The President, Senator Shelby and various conservative think tanks were busy telling anyone who would listen that Fannie and Freddie needed to be reformed. But, the Congress wouldn't take any action. I have seen articles from the early 90s on this so this should be no surprise to anyone in government. But the liberals will still blame everybody else.

re: #120 vagabond trader

Oh, yes, an excellent use of a frivolous vanity. Being sun deprived for long periods will result in Vitamin D deficiency.Bet tan beds are very popular in Alaska.

It's more than a vitamin defiency. Morale and work effiency goes up when the sun comes around more often. In NE Ohio, where I lived and worked for 12 years, it is amazing how everyone wants to be outside when the sun finally shows up after weeks and months of gray skies and snowstorms. You just stand outside looking at the sky.

re: #124 buzzsawmonkey

That's the opening paragraph of the Declaration of Financial Independence.

Yeah, okay what ever you say!

re: #128 keen

Who fundamentally was responsible for the federal rule changes?
Bernanke or Congress?
I'm asking because I don't know.

re: #120 vagabond trader

Oh, yes, an excellent use of a frivolous vanity. Being sun deprived for long periods will result in Vitamin D deficiency.Bet tan beds are very popular in Alaska.

Yes they are, along with tanning salons. Alaskans put themselves at great risk if they travel to the lower forty eight anytime except July and August because the other months of the year they are mostly fish belly white. So anytime you go south, you tan first. You can get a tan in July there, temps do get as high as mid nineties in Fairbanks, but you have to work at it hard because the angle of the sun is still bad for tanning.

The lesson: Do your own homework, and directly invest in sound corporations, instead of meta-investing in investment firms.

re: #128 keen

Excellent analysis. The revocation of the uptick rule was what began the downward spiral.

Latest Rasmussen Swing State Polls:

VA McCain 48 Obama 48
CO McCain 49 Obama 47
PA McCain 47 Obama 47
OH McCain 48 Obama 45
FL McCain 49 Obama 44

re: #24 Salamantis

I know you're cynical, but the St. Christopher medal is not a talisman.

1 : an object held to act as a charm to avert evil and bring good fortune
2 : something producing apparently magical or miraculous effects

St. Christopher is now considered to be a legend in the Western church. He was revered as the Patron Saint of travelers until recent times. Wearing a St. Christopher medal or having one hanging in your vehicle does not preclude your death while driving. Matter of fact, legend has it that he departs the car at 120 MPH and leaves you to your devices.

re: #137 neocon hippie

Thanks for some good news!

re: #87 MandyManners

Is it time to start sewing my jewels into my corset?

Last year at a charity ball, I was chatting with some other people at my table. The gentleman complimented me on my diamond and pearl necklace. I told him that it had been my great-great-great grandmothers, and that she had managed to smuggle it out of Prague (where she was a countess) when her family escaped from a failed coup.

His rapt attention was very satisfying.

Then I said, "Just kidding."

re: #131 VMA211Dan

I concur, but don't want to start any bs that Gov Palin is depressed as a result of seasonal affective disorder.

re: #137 neocon hippie

Latest Rasmussen Swing State Polls:

VA McCain 48 Obama 48
CO McCain 49 Obama 47
PA McCain 47 Obama 47
OH McCain 48 Obama 45
FL McCain 49 Obama 44

Who is this Obama guy? I was under the impression that McCain was running against some guy named "Messiah".

re: #133 jwb7605

Who fundamentally was responsible for the federal rule changes?
Bernanke or Congress?
I'm asking because I don't know.

start here: [Link: solari.com...]

re: #126 GeeWiz

Not very comforting when one considers the losses suffered on "the street" today. The losses I suffered today would easily cover $300.00 per barrel oil. Kinda sucks to be me I guess.

I posted this in the open thread but I think it bears repeating as well. The average bear market lasts 16 months and resulted in an average decline of 32% in the S&P 500. The last bear market lasted 31 months (03/2000 - 10/2002) and resulted in a decline of 49% in the S&P 500.

The average bull market lasts 57 months and resulted in an average increase of 150% in the S&P 500. The last bull market was 5 years (10/2002-10/2007) and there was an increase of 101%.

No way to predict the bottom, but there always is a bottom and it leads to pretty good gains.

Bear markets will happen. You just have to not panic and sell. I'm one that believes in buying the dips.

re: #136 jetpilot1101

Excellent analysis. The revocation of the uptick rule was what began the downward spiral.

I downdinged you accidently, then updinged you to compensate.
Hope that worked.
Wireless mouse started falling off the pad, and I just grabbed at it.

mark Levin on Fannie Mae et.al

[Link: www.wabcradio.com...]

re: #107 GeeWiz

I was under the impression that Washington Mutual had overcome their problems. Is my impression wrong? Should I be worried? WM is my mortgage carrier.

WAMU still has enough liquidity to get them through 2010; plus their large deposit holdings (re: actual money coming in) and they are working closely with their Regulator. They may just be fine and weather through if they will just stop giving n'er-do-wells mortgage loans (yourself excluded, of course).

Never fear - you'll still be paying them for a little while. :)

Of course, I bought WM at $3.80/share thinking they couldn't go lower and with their 52-week high at $38 seemed like a good pick... oops! $2/share today and they've been reduced to "junk" status.

/Get's down on knees and prays really hard.

re: #138 Cap'n DOC

He was revered as the Patron Saint of travelers

And the patron saint for people afflicted with ennui is of course San Blas.

re: #100 jcm

Oh! My the Palin's spending THEIR money on things THEY want.
The Horror!

What till the get a load of the Palin's guns and ammo spending!

Tanning beds must be an Alaskan thing. The Democrat that she defeated for governor was on the other day.
A real goof, but a tan like George Hamilton.

re: #138 Cap'n DOC

I know you're cynical, but the St. Christopher medal is not a talisman.

1 : an object held to act as a charm to avert evil and bring good fortune
2 : something producing apparently magical or miraculous effects

St. Christopher is now considered to be a legend in the Western church. He was revered as the Patron Saint of travelers until recent times. Wearing a St. Christopher medal or having one hanging in your vehicle does not preclude your death while driving. Matter of fact, legend has it that he departs the car at 120 MPH and leaves you to your devices.

Smart saint, if he does that. No free pass on recklessness.

My favorite saint is Saint Francis of Assisi. He just seems like a really good guy to me.

The Obama is eating this economic news up. The merchant of American doom and gloom with one hand in his own pocket and the other in yours. What a ghoul.

re: #104 Bobibutu

It did not come out of thin air - it came out of your 401(k) and other investments - mutual funds - etc. Deal with brokers and management fees ... expect to be fleeced.

[Link: www.thepiratesofmanhattan.com...]

From your link:

"This is an eye opening book. It has fascinating insight to the corrupt practices of certain financial institutions in America. Americans will be much better off when they read this book. It is an excellent source of information as to what is really going on in the financial world." - Congressman Ron Paul

Not the most reputable of recommenders...

re: #148 Occasional Reader

LOL. I have a full stock (Holy Cards) of Saint jokes of the kind you mention.

/Wrong audience

re: #141 vagabond trader
Thanks for putting a name to it, but it does exist. I'm sure Sarah is accustomed to that lifestyle, and DC has a lot more sunlight so she should "tear it up".

re: #150 Salamantis

My favorite saint is Saint Francis of Assisi

Bah. I'm too macho to pray to some guy who's A Sissi.

What goes up....

re: #147 Noam Chumpski

I haven't even been paying attention to the financial sector until today- mostly transportation (railways, open-seas shipping), energy (pipelines, oil, natural gas), mining (copper, potash, gold & palladium) and utilities. Now I'm anxious to see the longer-term effects of todays news on the companies I've been looking at.

re: #139 Occasional Reader

You're welcome. Although McCain slipped from a seven point lead in OH, and from a two point lead in VA. Gained in the others, though, and this is the first time that Obama lost the lead in PA.

re: #155 Occasional Reader

Now, now, now.

Here comes Fury, 2 2 O.

re: #151 vagabond trader

The Obama is eating this economic news up. The merchant of American doom and gloom with one hand in his own pocket and the other in yours. What a ghoul.

Yes he is. I'm not sure that greeting economic failure with hardly retrained glee is exactly a winning message however. Keep it up Obama. You are what America is all about.
/not

re: #125 jetpilot1101

There is a lot of book cooking going on. Freddie and Fannie have been playing fast and lose with accounting standards for more than a decade... and who's gonna straighten things out? Congress?!? They've been making up their own accounting rules since, what, the late sixties?!

I think all of this is built around Freddie and Fannie... and the sub-prime mortgage companies using the feds to launder their risk away. Without the feds to buy and repackage hyper-risky loans, the problem never would have started... the risks of default were too high, and the loans never would have been made without the the guaranteed sale to the feds.

Look for the media to downplay the federal government's role in all this... they want to pretend that a bigger federal role is the answer.

Screw the IMF. Their banking advice is for beans.

I don't like hearing bad financial news. I see myself standing on a street corner, selling apples. At least I have brothers and a sister, I know we'd pull together as a family if times got really bad.

re: #157 Fenway_Nation

I haven't even been paying attention to the financial sector until today- mostly transportation (railways, open-seas shipping), energy (pipelines, oil, natural gas), mining (copper, potash, gold & palladium) and utilities. Now I'm anxious to see the longer-term effects of todays news on the companies I've been looking at.

Fenway_Nation: I have a pretty awesome ball-cap with your avatar on it! Who knew? :)

re: #160 The Shadow Do

Yes he is. I'm not sure that greeting economic failure with hardly retrained glee is exactly a winning message however. Keep it up Obama. You are what America is all about.
/not

I hope he gaffes and says something to the effect that he is "happy that America is suffering a finacial crisis". It's a joy watching the dems self-destruct and I hope he helps them along. Come on Rev. Wright, where are you when we need you with a chicken roosting comment?

re: #149 opnion

Tanning beds must be an Alaskan thing. The Democrat that she defeated for governor was on the other day.
A real goof, but a tan like George Hamilton.

Up here in Seattle we don't tan...... we rust.

re: #151 vagabond trader

The Obama is eating this economic news up. The merchant of American doom and gloom with one hand in his own pocket and the other in yours. What a ghoul.

He's invested in our failure in Iraq, too.

re: #159 Cap'n DOC

Now, now, now.

Here comes Fury, 2 2 O.

C'mon, Cap'n; you can't dangle that in front of us, and then hold out on us like that! Post some of those Saint jokes you have! Pretty please! With whipped cream, mixed nuts, sprinkles and a cherry on top!

re: #88 buzzsawmonkey

I had assumed that you already had them. Another bubble burst.

Just planning.

re: #144 Dahveed

I did not sell and I'm looking for "buys" in tomorrow's market. Looking at today's bottom line can be most depressing while the opportunity of tomorrow can be so up-lifting. Emotion may rear it's ugly head but the reality of true values shall rule the day.

re: #137 neocon hippie

Latest Rasmussen Swing State Polls:

VA McCain 48 Obama 48
CO McCain 49 Obama 47
PA McCain 47 Obama 47
OH McCain 48 Obama 45
FL McCain 49 Obama 44

It’s Obama 49%, McCain 47%, in WA. However, the big change comes among unaffiliated voters who now favor McCain by a 48% to 43% margin.

re: #89 taxfreekiller

Leave the corset,
use your brain.

It's easier to travel with your jewels sewn up than in a box.

re: #136 jetpilot1101

I don't think the uptick rule was the problem. This still would have happened.
I am for bringing back the uptick rule, and other structural changes to the market.

However, these guys cooked their books.

re: #164 Noam Chumpski

Small world, isn't it?

re: #165 jetpilot1101

I hope he gaffes and says something to the effect that he is "happy that America is suffering a finacial crisis".

He has come pretty close, paraphrasing "this is the worst economy since the great depression". While smiling.

re: #103 Occasional Reader

Invest in canned food and ammunition!

/

Got those.

If I can't see it ,test it, drive it, I don't buy it and I ain't talking about cars. You guess.

I converted cash to gold at 572.00 an oz....
Made for a very lumpy bed!;-P

re: #67 Ps2

With any luck, they'll keep him over there.

re: #115 buzzsawmonkey

When in the Corset of human events, it becomes necessary for one person to conceal in her undergarments' bands the wherewithal which has connected her with her purchases, and to assume among the financial powers of the neighborhood, the separate and financially independent station to which the Laws of Economics and of Economics' God entitle her, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that she should declare the techniques which enable her to embark upon the concealment.

If you ever get disbarred, you'll have a future in speech-writing.

You young lizards have years to make it up. Try being this close to retirement but hubby had to put it off due to mortgage and not a prayer of selling the house in this area.We've always been responsible with our spending and now we have to bend over and pay to bail these assholes out. A pox on them all.

re: #133 jwb7605

Both were regulatory body changes, neither Congress nor the Fed were directly responsible. The SEC changed the rules on shorting (after 70 years) and accounting oversight board changed the accounting rules. Who pushed for them behind the scenes, I don't know. I predicted disaster from the rule changes last year at my fund's investor meeting.

re: #175 Fenway_Nation

Small world, isn't it?

I thought I was supporting a ball team and it turns out it's just a "Fenway_Nation" fan club hat.

...Still cool.

re: #176 The Shadow Do

He has come pretty close, paraphrasing "this is the worst economy since the great depression". While smiling.

Ya 'spose the next 10-second ad might be to replay a video clip of that with the words "Why is this man smiling?" superimposed?

re: #181 MandyManners

If you ever get disbarred

"Ever"? I'm sure buzzsaw has already been chucked out of LOTS of bars.

re: #163 Tigger2005

I don't like hearing bad financial news. I see myself standing on a street corner, selling apples. At least I have brothers and a sister, I know we'd pull together as a family if times got really bad.

It will never get that bad again here in the US. Our economy is now much too diverse, one sector gets hit, others will still profit.

re: #174 pittrader1988

I don't think the uptick rule was the problem. This still would have happened.
I am for bringing back the uptick rule, and other structural changes to the market.

However, these guys cooked their books.

Coocking the books was the problem, the lack of an uptick rule helped the hedge funds really screw the banks and take them down hard.

re: #182 vagabond trader

You young lizards have years to make it up. Try being this close to retirement but hubby had to put it off due to mortgage and not a prayer of selling the house in this area.We've always been responsible with our spending and now we have to bend over and pay to bail these assholes out. A pox on them all.

You and I are pulling oars in the same rowboat, sadly. I'll row while you pox and vice versa.

re: #188 Thanos

It will never get that bad again here in the US. Our economy is now much too diverse, one sector gets hit, others will still profit.

Unless you're the sector that gets hit! lol

re: #185 Noam Chumpski

It's the official hat of the Fenway_Nation seccecionist party.

re: #45 kansas

If the banks who loaned people money who couldn't pay it back on the terms they signed up for how about cutting them some slack? You know, something instead of nothing. But no. They foreclosed. Greedy bastards. Trying to flip the properties to make their own profits and ended up crashing the market.
Since I've been around greedy capitalists and crooks have screwed us routinely every 10 years or so.

Extending more credit to people who are already over-extended is like throwing an anchor to a drowning man. Foreclosing is rarely a big profit opportunity for a lender, because in most cases, the reason his customer has fallen behind is that the housing market has gone soft due to other economic pressures, like people losing their jobs. Keeping the poor sap on the books, when he can't pay his interest just means that when they do eventually foreclose, they will have to sell into an even worse market than they otherwise would have, which hurts all property owners.

re: #140 goddessoftheclassroom

Last year at a charity ball, I was chatting with some other people at my table. The gentleman complimented me on my diamond and pearl necklace. I told him that it had been my great-great-great grandmothers, and that she had managed to smuggle it out of Prague (where she was a countess) when her family escaped from a failed coup.

His rapt attention was very satisfying.

Then I said, "Just kidding."

ROFLMAO!

re: #178 usmc1968

If I can't see it ,test it, drive it, I don't buy it and I ain't talking about cars. You guess.

Good to see you!
Day for old friends, Mama Winger was back earlier today!

I got this here pig in poke for sale, interested? ;-P

re: #186 jwb7605

Ya 'spose the next 10-second ad might be to replay a video clip of that with the words "Why is this man smiling?" superimposed?

Beautiful

I'm bringing this over from a "dead thread":
Relative to speculation that the Obama campaign may go bankrupt,

This may be OT, but I have often wondered something when I see an ad for a bankruptcy lawyer. If his clients are all bankrupt, how does he get paid?

re: #154 VMA211Dan

Coincidentally I have a friend from your area who used to live near me. He suffered in winter and was greatly relieved by tanning in the winter.

re: #176 The Shadow Do

He has come pretty close, paraphrasing "this is the worst economy since the great depression". While smiling.

What a moron.

Uh, Barry, we're not even in a recession (at least not yet). And you think the economy is worse than what your Idiotarian Jedi Master Jimmy Carter left it?

re: #128 keen

But look at all the hell they were hiding under the mark to market exceptions. Maybe it was a good thing to do after all?

re: #192 Noam Chumpski

Unless you're the sector that gets hit! lol

Then you move to the sector that's profiting, that's easy to fix. Trust me that right now people are feverishly looking at everything to figure out what they will be buying, who the winners are etc.

re: #193 Fenway_Nation

It's the official hat of the Fenway_Nation seccecionist party.

You got Palin on your member list?

/secessionist party joke

re: #190 buzzsawmonkey

It happens to all of us salooner or later.

Did you explain you were a Re-Publican? Then again, they wouldn't give a dram, would they.

re: #191 The Shadow Do

Deal. We'll be ok, just hate to see the ole man have to drag it to work when he should be out in the woods chopping wood for winter. lol!

re: #174 pittrader1988

I don't think the uptick rule was the problem. This still would have happened.
I am for bringing back the uptick rule, and other structural changes to the market.

However, these guys cooked their books.

I think the accounting rules played a role in all of this as well. Much of the problem comes from the securities that were backed by mortgages that were not backed by the government. The market collapsed in these securities. The rules required recording the securities at lower of book or market value. The book value of the securities are ok. The securities are still paying and haven't defaulted. The accounting rules do not take that into account. So, the companies have to record losses for securities instead of looking to see if the security is still performing.

re: #204 buzzsawmonkey

The art of bankruptcy is to pay the lawyer so that you, and he--and not the people you owe--get the money.

Oh. Thanks.

re: #202 Thanos

Then you move to the sector that's profiting, that's easy to fix. Trust me that right now people are feverishly looking at everything to figure out what they will be buying, who the winners are etc.

Yeah... I was just looking for cheap chuckle. ;)

re: #201 itellu3times

But look at all the hell they were hiding under the mark to market exceptions. Maybe it was a good thing to do after all?

Agreed. It's a classic "accounting treadmill" scenario; they longer you wait to try to make that leap off the treadmill, the worse it's gonna hurt.

re: #3 buzzsawmonkey

Is this guy basically saying, "A few of us skimmed the cream and stuck you with the leftover fat-free blue milk. Eat your cornflakes and like it"--or is that just my imagination?

No, you're not imagining things; however, they could not have accumulated the cream without a lot of cows providing the milk! Since 2005, all of us in the homebuilding looked at each other and said, "This can't continue, it's too hot." But it all feeds upon itself until we have a correction. Were the banks greedy? Yes. Were the mortgage lenders greedy? Yes. Were the consumers who thought they would see 15% appreciation on their homes year over year greedy? Yes. Were the investors who wanted to "flip" their way to financial prosperity greedy? Yes! Is this operating mentality sustainable? NO!

re: #203 Noam Chumpski

That's the sister club in Alaska.

Actually, I was listening to the Red Sox on XM and during one of these on-air drawings (if the 3rd batter in the 3rd inning hits a homer or something) furing one of the Red Sox games, one of the participants was from Elfin Bay, Alaska.

I think that's 'suburban' Juneau.

re: #174 pittrader1988

I disagree. Bear, Lehman, and Merrill did not cook their books.

Think about it: Lehman had $1 of equity for every $33 of assets it had. If the assets drop in value by 3%, the equity becomes worth zero.

No big conspiracy required. Just marking down securities positions 3% and Poof! 150 years down the drain.

The accounting regs killed them.

re: #114 Dianna

Right now, I'm watching the Greenlining Institute gear up to insist that nonprofits give to more "diverse" organizations.

That means the ones they approve of. Not the ones the funders think are worthy.

That's part of what happened to the mortgage lenders. There's plenty of blame to go around, but you're right, the "community activists" will not receive their share of the blame.

The Masons will get more blame than they will.

Don't forget the Jooooos, NWO and whomever else David Icke and the anti-semites can blame.

re: #206 vagabond trader

Deal. We'll be ok, just hate to see the ole man have to drag it to work when he should be out in the woods chopping wood for winter. lol!

Man oh man. This ole man will suffer, but I sure ain't choppin no wood at my age!
/'less'n the wife tells me to of course.

re: #196 jcm

Good to see you!
Day for old friends, Mama Winger was back earlier today!

I got this here pig in poke for sale, interested? ;-P

What's a poke and what is a pig doing in it?

Sleeping over with Joe Biden

At a rally in Charlotte, N.C., Joe Biden offered his sense of the race, in a story about his 10-year-old granddaughter, Finnegan, who slept over with "Bawack's girls" during the convention in Denver.

"So folks, I believe that's a metaphor, a metaphor for what the country is looking for," he said. "They're looking for a sleepover with people they like."

It's the Bawack / Biden ticket!

re: #215 The Shadow Do

Man oh man. This ole man will suffer, but I sure ain't choppin no wood at my age!
/'less'n the wife tells me to of course.

I have a fireplace, and a rack of wood I cut from yard trees that hurricanes brought down.

Anyway, all our economic problems will disappear when President Obama creates 4,000,000 new "green" jobs.

I'm hoping for "Unicorn Wrangler, First Class", myself.

re: #203 Noam Chumpski

You got Palin on your member list?

/secessionist party joke

I used to be a member of the AIP til I found out it was mostly Birchers. Many Alaskans join because there is so much Fed control in the State. What the Feds don't own is tribal land, so very little of the state is actually in private hands. It's pretty frustrating also when the enviros stop resource development, at those points membership goes up. Most folks don't know about the nutballs running it.

re: #219 Occasional Reader

Anyway, all our economic problems will disappear when President Obama creates 4,000,000 new "green" jobs.

I'm hoping for "Unicorn Wrangler, First Class", myself.

Name your salary.

re: #173 MandyManners

It's easier to travel with your jewels sewn up than in a box.

A number of years ago I read this very weird and gross story about a family that went through the Holocaust and kept their diamonds by swallowing them, then excreting them and swallowing them again.

Oww. Apparently they survived and so did the diamonds.

SPIEGEL: At the end of the day, who bears responsibility for the debacle?

Rogoff: There are so many people to blame for what happened. It would be like the title credits at the end of a movie if you were to name them all. But the people most to blame are President George W. Bush and the US Congress. The political system has willfully ignored this problem and at many points pressed the regulators to do nothing.

Give me a break. The banks/financial institutions themselves deserve the lion's share of the blame, even if Bush or Congress could have done more.

re: #215 The Shadow Do

Just kidding,no chopping, but he better get the lawn vac geared up for the tsunami of leaves we always have in the autumn.

OT question:

I like red maraschino cherries. But who the hell buys those green mint ones?

"I came into Egypt a Pharoah who did not know."

I beg your pardon, is that a proverb?

No, a prophecy. The rich been doing it to the poor since the beginning of time. The only difference between the Pyramids and the Empire State Building is the Egyptians didn't allow unions. I know what these guys are all about: greed. They don't give a damn about anything....

all props to Gordon Gecko. Sometimes greed isn't good...

re: #217 jcm

Sleeping over with Joe Biden

It's the Bawack / Biden ticket!

Are they really trying to run on a platform of, "vote for us, we're the cool, popular kids"?

Self-parody alert.

re: #210 Occasional Reader

But look at all the hell they were hiding under the mark to market exceptions. Maybe it was a good thing to do after all?

Agreed. It's a classic "accounting treadmill" scenario; they longer you wait to try to make that leap off the treadmill, the worse it's gonna hurt.

Well, really, I'm asking. It may be ten years before we have enough data to really know. If ever. It's all hypothetical now. Certainly, if real estate prices had kept rising (forever?!), the mark to market would not have been an issue. If even the market liquidity had not unexpectedly vanished, the mark to market would not have been an issue - it was the market mechanism collapsing, not (just) the price decline, that was unforeseen. The question is whether it should have been foreseen. So many things are obvious in hindsight.

There still may be some humongous profits to be made, picking up these distressed assets, but apparently the clock ran out on some big players, before they could see that happen.

re: #216 MandyManners

What's a poke and what is a pig doing in it?

Pig in a poke, old famer markets dishonest would sell you a pig (piglet) in a poke (bag). But make you buy with checking the contents of the poke (bag). They would do this to get rid of the surplus of cats, if you insisted on checking the contents of the poke, you let the cat out of the bag.

Buying a pig in a poke, is buy something without checking it out.

re: #218 Salamantis

I have a fireplace, and a rack of wood I cut from yard trees that hurricanes brought down.

Typical Right-Wing Neocon. Prospering off the misfortune of others.

/ / /

re: #199 vagabond trader

Coincidentally I have a friend from your area who used to live near me. He suffered in winter and was greatly relieved by tanning in the winter.

Hence, now I live in snowbird country. Ft. Myers FL. I love it here and will never leave. Half the residences are part-time. People up-north have learned what sunlight means. So Sarah having a tanning bed only makes her a better governor.

re: #196 jcm

Yea, I like pigs, especially with lipstick.

re: #217 jcm

Neat....so now we can tell Putin 'Get out of Georgia or you can't hang out with the cool kids anymore!'

re: #233 usmc1968

TMI

Put me down for St. Jude. In tough situations you can pray to him to intercede (sort of like a prayer booster) and I kid you not - it works every time.

re: #218 Salamantis

I have a fireplace, and a rack of wood I cut from yard trees that hurricanes brought down.

You're a natural born entrepreneur! Sorry about that stinkin' hurricane though.

re: #198 ErnieG

I'm bringing this over from a "dead thread":
Relative to speculation that the Obama campaign may go bankrupt,

This may be OT, but I have often wondered something when I see an ad for a bankruptcy lawyer. If his clients are all bankrupt, how does he get paid?

Upfront

re: #226 Salamantis

OT question:

I like red maraschino cherries. But who the hell buys those green mint ones?

Those are mint? I thought they were red ones gone bad.

re: #236 Knitwit

Put me down for St. Jude. In tough situations you can pray to him to intercede (sort of like a prayer booster) and I kid you not - it works every time.

If it "worked every time", nothing bad would happen to Catholics, ever.

re: #219 Occasional Reader

Anyway, all our economic problems will disappear when President Obama creates 4,000,000 new "green" jobs.

I'm hoping for "Unicorn Wrangler, First Class", myself.

That is exactly the economic ticket the green parties in Europe are peddling since years.
And they are jumping on every ecological band-wagon that comes along their way to further that idea. Concern over reactor security, pollution, global-warming, genetically modified foods etc. etc.
Jadah, jadah, jadah.

re: #219 Occasional Reader

Anyway, all our economic problems will disappear when President Obama creates 4,000,000 new "green" jobs.

I'm hoping for "Unicorn Wrangler, First Class", myself.

Aim higher. Secretary of Fuzzy Bunnies soon to join the cabinet.

re: #221 buzzsawmonkey

Our Poet Loweryet. That is how's y'all spells it, right?

re: #242 The Shadow Do

Will we still have to import labor for the seasonal position of Magical Lolipop Harvester?

re: #233 usmc1968

Yea, I like pigs, especially with lipstick.

You're not the only one!

re: #230 jcm

Pig in a poke, old famer markets dishonest would sell you a pig (piglet) in a poke (bag). But make you buy with checking the contents of the poke (bag). They would do this to get rid of the surplus of cats, if you insisted on checking the contents of the poke, you let the cat out of the bag.

Buying a pig in a poke, is buy something without checking it out.

And 'looking a gift horse in the mouth' was originally about opening the mouth of a very low priced horse one was thinking about purchasing to inspect its teeth, because the condition of the teeth indicate the horse's age.

re: #228 Occasional Reader

Are they really trying to run on a platform of, "vote for us, we're the cool, popular kids"?

Self-parody alert.

Yes, they really are.

I dunno. The stock market fell 20% in one day during the 80s. Today the dow only dropped 5%. This stuff will pass. Didn't sell anything today. Might bargain hunt tomorrow.

The only effect on the financial sector that this will have is the illegalization or regulation of complex derivatives, which might not be a bad idea as long as firms don't understand the ripple effects of these instruments.

Mark Levin's talking about Barry's efforts to undermine our position in Iraq now. (Mark's my favorite.)

re: #223 Alouette

A number of years ago I read this very weird and gross story about a family that went through the Holocaust and kept their diamonds by swallowing them, then excreting them and swallowing them again.

Oww. Apparently they survived and so did the diamonds.

Now, that's recycling!

re: #242 The Shadow Do

Aim higher. Secretary of Fuzzy Bunnies soon to join the cabinet.

I'm not looking forward to converting the chemtrail fleet to pixie dust.

Boy, does Shep Smith ~love~ to inform viewers that the American economy is in CRISIS. Or any other kind of CRISIS for that matter, including weather, war, or health threat.

whoops - Shep now said we were in COLLAPSE. One gets the impression that if broadcasting decorum allowed, he would prefer to stand on his desk and bellow it; red-faced and sweating, with a bullhorn and whiteflag as special effects.

re: #241 callahan23

Sounds like the bogus dot.com "industry" of the 90s. We'll have a good laugh when palm trees grow in Alaska and Europe has another ice age.

re: #230 jcm

Pig in a poke, old famer markets dishonest would sell you a pig (piglet) in a poke (bag). But make you buy with checking the contents of the poke (bag). They would do this to get rid of the surplus of cats, if you insisted on checking the contents of the poke, you let the cat out of the bag.

Buying a pig in a poke, is buy something without checking it out.

That explains two sayings! Thanks!

re: #230 jcm

They would do this to get rid of the surplus of cats

Cats seem to get a bad rap in these old expressions. The expression in Spanish for "to bait-and-switch" is dar gato por liebre, "to give cat for hare". The idea being, you ask the butcher to sell you some hare, and instead he gives you Filet of Mr. Bigglesworth.

re: #250 jemima

Mark Levin's talking about Barry's efforts to undermine our position in Iraq now. (Mark's my favorite.)

You catch his first hour rant on Fannie and Freddie?

Lizards it's a must hear rant. When he post the audio it will be here.

Does everyone forget the late 80's? I have been in the real estate industry sense 1981, I was 18 years old. Who here remembers Dime mortgage?

I have seen it all I was VP of the largest mortgage Company in the US, have built many hundreds of homes . apartments and many large industrial complexes. This is nothing new to me it is just how capitalism works the weak die and others come to fill the gap. Maybe now I can buy some good multi family building at a good price.

re: #233 usmc1968

Yea, I like pigs, especially with lipstick.

I'm gonna' refrain.

re: #244 Fenway_Nation

Will we still have to import labor for the seasonal position of Magical Lolipop Harvester?

Of course not. There will be no borders. Imagine. If you can.

I suspect an up-day for the "street" on Tuesday since investors will seize upon low-valued stocks that suffered the bloodbath on Monday that had nothing to do with the events over the weekend concerning Lehman. The shark has been killed and the scavengers shall be well fed. Let the games begin!

oy

Military Designing Mind Control/Communication Helmets For Silent Warfare

Japan weathered a crisis just like this quite nicely. Real estate doesn't always have to go up in value, but if you do own a home in the US it's still on some of the more valuable land in the entire world.

re: #253 runrabbitrun

Boy, does Shep Smith ~love~ to inform viewers that the American economy is in CRISIS. Or any other kind of CRISIS for that matter, including weather, war, or health threat.

whoops - Shep now said we were in COLLAPSE. One gets the impression that if broadcasting decorum allowed, he would prefer to stand on his desk and bellow it; red-faced and sweating, with a bullhorn and whiteflag as special effects.

Seriously been doing some hatin' on Shep and Chris Wallace lately. I think they have finally shown their true colors lately, or enhancing their liberal credentials to get on the "networks".

re: #253 runrabbitrun

Boy, does Shep Smith ~love~ to inform viewers that the American economy is in CRISIS. Or any other kind of CRISIS for that matter, including weather, war, or health threat.

whoops - Shep now said we were in COLLAPSE. One gets the impression that if broadcasting decorum allowed, he would prefer to stand on his desk and bellow it; red-faced and sweating, with a bullhorn and whiteflag as special effects.

Shep is the reason I switch over to Headline News and watch Glenn Beck.
The problem is that Beck (right now) isn't any different.

re: #245 jcm

You're not the only one!

I saw another "Women for McCain" sticker today. I tooted my horn and held up my lipstick. She held up hers, too.