Iran: From Bad to Worse

World • Views: 1,960

As the crackdown on Iranian dissent continues, here’s a disturbing op-ed on Iran’s transformation into a military dictatorship: Iran’s Hidden Revolution.

JUST after Iran’s rigged elections last week, with hundreds of thousands of protesters taking to the streets, it looked as if a new revolution was in the offing. Five days later, the uprising is little more than a symbolic protest, crushed by the elite Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps. Meanwhile, the real revolution has gone unnoticed: the guard has effected a silent coup d’état.

The seeds of this coup were planted four years ago with the election of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. And while he has since disappointed his public, failing to deliver on promised economic and political reforms, his allies now control the country. In the most dramatic turnabout since the 1979 revolution, Iran has evolved from theocratic state to military dictatorship.

Disenchantment with clerical rule has been growing for years. To the urban youths who make up Iran’s most active political class, the mullahs represent the crude rigidity of Islamic law. To the rural poor, they epitomize the corruption that has meant unbuilt schools, unpaved roads and unfulfilled promises of development.

This hostility overflowed during the 2005 presidential race, with the defeat of former President Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani, a cleric widely considered corrupt, by Mr. Ahmadinejad, a former officer in the Revolutionary Guards.

In Mr. Ahmadinejad, the public saw a man who repudiated the profligacy of the clerical class, a man who was ascetic, humble and devout. And he capitalized on that image to consolidate power and to promote his brothers in arms. Fourteen of the 21 cabinet ministers he has appointed are former members of the guards or its associated paramilitary, the Basij. Several, including Defense Minister Mostafa Mohammad Najjar, are veterans of notorious units thought to have supported terrorist operations in the 1980s.

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205 comments
1 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:27:47am

I don’t know if I’d go so far as to call it a “symbolic protest”.

2 yma o hyd  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:28:53am

Re-posting this from the dt below:

‘Jon Leyne, Reporting from Tehran

It’s quite clear that there are enormous disputes going on behind the scenes. But the people who run this country are not stupid. There are some quite smart people, even loyalists to Mr Ahmadinejad, and they must realise how much deeper they are digging themselves into this mess every day.

But at the moment, quite inexplicably, the Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei seems to be quite in thrall to Mr Ahmadinejad. It’s almost as if he’s taking his orders from him. He usually stays above the fray and interestingly he’s still not been seen in public since the election.’
(My emphasis)

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk…]

3 SFGoth  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:29:36am

Somehow I don’t think they’re singing “Listen mister we could use a man like Jimmy Carter again.” “We don’t need no mullah state. The PLO should pull it’s weight. In retrospect our Shah was great. Those were the days.”

4 KingKenrod  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:29:45am

Good luck negotiating with Iran now, Mr. President.

Obama’s strategy of settling the Israel/Palestinian issue as leverage before confronting Iran is looking really retarded right now.

5 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:31:10am

Damn. I’ve been saying since this started. It’s not the “police” the Iranians had to worry about. I wasn’t Ahmedinijad per se. It was (and is) the Revolutionary Guard. Even if the regular Army were to side with the people (as was speculated yesterday) they are no match in firepower and fanaticism as the Guard

Damn!

6 JohnnyReb  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:31:11am

Calling it a “Symbolic protest” is a bit lame when people are being shot and killed I would say.

7 jemima  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:31:19am

Freedom is worth fighting for and dying for. If freedom has value, then shrug and accept being a slave of the state or the mullahs. It’s not called “hard won freedom” because some questions were answered correctly on a game show, it’s because fellow citizens died to make others free. Sad but true.

8 calvin coolidge  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:31:33am

A military dictatorship with nuclear weapons and billions in oil revenue.
What could go wrong?

9 Dianna  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:31:38am

From what I’m reading - granted, very limited - it doesn’t look like the protests are dying down.

10 yma o hyd  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:31:56am

As there is again a huge demo going on (Tens of thousands of people have again taken to the streets in Iran’s capital Tehran in protest at election results.), the twitters are not tweeting much right now.

So I’ll take a break and feed the dogs!

BBIAB

11 JohnnyReb  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:33:05am

re: #8 calvin coolidge

A military dictatorship with nuclear weapons and billions in oil revenue.
What could go wrong?


Oh and don’t forget he wants Israel destroyed so he can usher in that 13th Uman dude out of the well.

12 itellu3times  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:36:09am

This is along the same lines that they were talking about yesterday on Belmont Club, that Achmadinejad is preferable to the mullahs … in which case, if they did back Mousavi, then … ?

And that some of Achmadinejad’s power comes from the military and preparations in case of US or Israeli attack.

13 debutaunt  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:36:29am

Protesters have an end result in mind, but it just isn’t available in Iran.

14 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:37:48am

I’m compelled to wonder how many people working in the White House and the Executive Office Building know what the Qods Force is, or what it’s a part of?

/last year, a lot did.

15 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:38:06am

This is the Iranian Night of the Long Knives. The fanatical Mahdi sect is about to seize power form the conservative & corrupt council of the mullahs. From bad, to nuclear armed worse.

16 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:38:27am

re: #8 calvin coolidge

A military dictatorship with nuclear weapons and billions in oil revenue.
What could go wrong?

A military dictatorship that has very radical religious ideology as its guiding principle.

Yeah, what could go wrong?

17 filetandrelease  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:38:45am
Five days later, the uprising is little more than a symbolic protest, crushed by the elite Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps.

I wasn’t expecting that, and hope it is premature and incorrect.

18 mystry  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:39:29am

So what does this mean for the poor guy who was in the streets trying to have a better life for himself and/or his family?

19 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:39:33am
Some will argue that Mr. Ahmadinejad may be in a conciliatory mood because he needs talks with the United States to underscore his own legitimacy, but that can only be read as a self-serving Washington perspective. Meanwhile, the Iranian people will have suffered the consolidation of power by a ruthless regime and the transformation of a theocracy to an ideological military dictatorship. That Iran neither needs nor wants accommodation with the West.

I hope and pray that the protesters’ momentum will bring about change in a positive direction…part of me, however, is growing more fearful for their wellbeing.

20 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:39:45am

re: #14 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I’m compelled to wonder how many people working in the White House and the Executive Office Building know what the Qods Force is, or what it’s a part of?

/last year, a lot did.

I think it’s a safe bet they know a lot more about what’s going on than we do. They probably know more than the mullahs.

21 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:39:51am

re: #12 itellu3times

Ahmadinejad’s main power base is the IRGC. He’s a former officer as are most of the people he has appointed. The coup has been moving slowly for the past 4 years. It’s almost complete.

22 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:39:56am

bbl

23 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:40:04am

re: #18 mystry

So what does this mean for the poor guy who was in the streets trying to have a better life for himself and/or his family?

He’s fucked.

24 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:40:26am

I posted this link in the overnight thread. It’s a live stream of live & recorded videos out of Iran.

25 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:42:03am
26 filetandrelease  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:42:29am

My hopes were high, I just didn’t realize in the literal sense.

27 tfc3rid  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:42:33am

In all the nonsense and disinformation and information thus far, I am seriously shocked that the nutty Mullahs and a-Jihad have not blamed this all on the Jews and the Jewish State. I’m seriously shocked…

My fear is, they will eventually and it’s their impetus for attacking Israel.

28 Lanaty  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:43:31am

re: #24 NJDhockeyfan

Great link. Thank you.

29 Land Shark  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:43:44am

And in addition to the Revolutionary Guards, we have stories about people from Hamas and other Islamist organizations helping with the crackdown. And they are kicking foreign journalists out of the country as well. I’m convinced Ahmadinejad and his cronies will use any methods up to and including mass killings to stay in power.

I pray for the great Iranian people. God bless and keep them, they will need all the courage and support they can muster. And thanks to Winston for keeping us informed, God bless him and keep his family and friends in Iran safe.

30 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:43:48am

re: #17 filetandrelease

I wasn’t expecting that, and hope it is premature and incorrect.

Given what we’re seeing, I really do think it’s premature. The protests have not gone away, far from it. The regime is having to import Arab goon muscle for help.

31 John Neverbend  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:44:02am

re: #27 tfc3rid

My fear is, they will eventually and it’s their impetus for attacking Israel.

I just came across this interview between Amir Taheri and Kathryn Jean Lopez which presents an interesting and alternative view.

Light on the Night

32 SlartyBartfast  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:44:06am

re: tfc3rid

A Persian friend of mine says that Iranian State TV is blaming Obama and the U.S. for all the violence. Nice, huh?

33 iLikeCandy  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:44:21am

What do the Iranian protesters want? Mousavi? An end to the whole nightmare of having to choose this brutal dictator or that? If (impossible, I know) the vote were recounted and Mousavi were found to be the winner and installed, would they celebrate and end their protests?

34 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:44:38am

re: #27 tfc3rid

In all the nonsense and disinformation and information thus far, I am seriously shocked that the nutty Mullahs and a-Jihad have not blamed this all on the Jews and the Jewish State. I’m seriously shocked…

Someone had a post on the last thread quoting some Ahmadinejad supporter or spokesman doing just that.

35 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:45:11am

re: #27 tfc3rid

In all the nonsense and disinformation and information thus far, I am seriously shocked that the nutty Mullahs and a-Jihad have not blamed this all on the Jews and the Jewish State. I’m seriously shocked…

My fear is, they will eventually and it’s their impetus for attacking Israel.

Blame is best served after consolidating power. Ahmadinejad needs something to take the people’s focus off his coup, and blaming it on Israel is ready-made.

36 VegasRick  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:45:28am

re: #32 SlartyBartfast

A Persian friend of mine says that Iranian State TV is blaming Obama and the U.S. for all the violence. Nice, huh?

Now would be a good time for some covert op’s.

37 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:45:46am

re: #32 SlartyBartfast

A Persian friend of mine says that Iranian State TV is blaming Obama and the U.S. for all the violence. Nice, huh?

Not surprising one bit.

38 MJ  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:45:56am

Charles Krauthammer and Fred Barnes on Obama’s statement:

39 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:46:16am
40 filetandrelease  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:46:41am

re: #30 Occasional Reader
It makes sense that Dinnerjacket would put out disinformation, and MSM would take it in, since they certainly aren’t going to verify anything.

I still hope.

41 soxfan4life  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:46:46am

re: #32 SlartyBartfast

re: tfc3rid

A Persian friend of mine says that Iranian State TV is blaming Obama and the U.S. for all the violence. Nice, huh?


How soon until it is Israel’s fault. The 0bama claim might be an effort to kill their hope for US intervention

42 LatinGent  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:47:17am

Fist throughly clenched, prepare for more fisting.

43 Baier  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:47:17am

People don’t go out to the street to die for a “symbolic protest.”
This is bigger than that.

44 Buck  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:47:21am

re: #35 FurryOldGuyJeans

Blame is best served after consolidating power. Ahmadinejad needs something to take the people’s focus off his coup, and blaming it on Israel is ready-made.

Yes, but you need to be able to use the victims (Palestinians) as oppressed…

Much like what happened in Iraq, the Palestinians are being viewed as part of the oppression. It will not be easy to show them as victims.

45 jcm  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:47:45am

re: #23 Kenneth

He’s fucked.

Not necessarily, the people on the streets know the fights against Dinnerjacket and minions.

It’s not good, but not unexpected. I think the man on the street is well aware of the internal power struggles.

46 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:47:47am

Shout in Unison: There Has Been a Coup


Today people are in a state of shock, and I call this a coup d’état. This is more than just rigging. We must all say in unison: There has been a coup. This coup is of course not in favor of a dictatorship because what is important is that people have succeeded in pushing back dictatorship to the wall and so the state has been forced to forsake its legitimacy for dictatorship.
47 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:47:54am

re: #42 LatinGent

Fist throughly clenched, prepare for more fisting.

Hail Proculus!

48 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:47:56am

re: #30 Occasional Reader

Given what we’re seeing, I really do think it’s premature. The protests have not gone away, far from it. The regime is having to import Arab goon muscle for help.

The NYTimes does seem to love giving our enemies aid and comfort.

49 iLikeCandy  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:48:26am

re: #41 soxfan4life

How soon until it is Israel’s fault. The 0bama claim might be an effort to kill their hope for US intervention

I’m sure they’ll manage to call it an Obama/Zionist cabal, as if.

50 jcm  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:48:42am

re: #27 tfc3rid

In all the nonsense and disinformation and information thus far, I am seriously shocked that the nutty Mullahs and a-Jihad have not blamed this all on the Jews and the Jewish State. I’m seriously shocked…

My fear is, they will eventually and it’s their impetus for attacking Israel.

I’ve already seen statements to that effect.

51 MJ  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:48:49am

re: #41 soxfan4life

How soon until it is Israel’s fault. The 0bama claim might be an effort to kill their hope for US intervention

The antisemitic Michael Scheuer basically said it was Israel’s fault last night on O’Reilly.

52 LGoPs  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:49:03am

The only reason the Revolutionary Guards are considered ‘elite’ is because they haven’t faced a competent miltary opponent.
A taste of American steel would temper their revolutionary zeal.

53 Land Shark  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:49:38am

re: #48 FurryOldGuyJeans

I’m not surprised about the New York Times, the only value that rag has is as fishwrap or lining the bottom of bird cages.

54 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:49:41am

re: #44 Buck

Yes, but you need to be able to use the victims (Palestinians) as oppressed…

Much like what happened in Iraq, the Palestinians are being viewed as part of the oppression. It will not be easy to show them as victims.

The Palestinians are not needed. That the 3rd most holy site in Islam is not under Islamic control is enough. The Palestinians are just window dressing.

55 soxfan4life  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:49:58am

re: #52 LGoPs

The only reason the Revolutionary Guards are considered ‘elite’ is because they haven’t faced a competent miltary opponent.
A taste of American steel would temper their revolutionary zeal.


Kind of like the “elite” Republican Guard?

56 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:50:25am

re: #31 John Neverbend

nice quote:

The statement, “Democracy cannot be imposed by force,” is often made by Obama as if it were the cleverest of philosophical observations. However, we know that democracy can be imposed by force, as happened in West Germany, Japan, and Italy, among other places, after the Second World War. In any case, what happened in Afghanistan and Iraq was not the imposition of democracy by force, but the use of force to remove impediments to democracy. Imagine using force to topple the despots in Burma or Zimbabwe. Would that not remove impediments to democracy?

57 iLikeCandy  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:50:44am

re: #30 Occasional Reader

Given what we’re seeing, I really do think it’s premature. The protests have not gone away, far from it. The regime is having to import Arab goon muscle for help.

ARAB!? Which ones? Sorry I’m out of it (haven’t had time to keep up on every development), but what’s with Arab goons in Iran?

58 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:50:49am

re: #51 MJ

The antisemitic Michael Scheuer basically said it was Israel’s fault last night on O’Reilly.

You’re kidding me. (No, you’re not, I know.)

What was his twisted explanation of how that worked (out of morbid curiosity)?

59 pat  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:50:50am

This is indeed the core of the problem. Like the Red Guard in China, the Revolutionary Guard in Iran has been richly rewarded. Materially, they control almost all manufacturing, energy delivery, and much of the transportation industry. Psychologically, they are free to rape, murder, kill and torture with impunity as they control the courts and the prisons. Thus Iran has descended into a Theocracy/Thugocracy. The Revolutionary Guard has no reason to want change.

60 jcm  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:50:53am

re: #48 FurryOldGuyJeans

The NYTimes does seem to love giving our enemies aid and comfort.

The might get another blood soaked Pullet Surprise.

61 VegasRick  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:51:17am

re: #55 soxfan4life

Kind of like the “elite” Republican Guard?

We saw how “elite” they were in Iraq.

62 Land Shark  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:51:22am

re: #56 Kenneth

Everytime 0bama talks about history he shows how little he knows about it.

63 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:52:04am
In the case of Iran, the phrase was used to reduce the debate to a choice between preemptive war, regarded as the original sin, and preemptive surrender. Because we don’t want war with Iran, let us surrender to the mullahs! Opponents of the Bush Doctrine had hoped for “a shot at a democratic election” to prove that there was no need for regime change in Tehran. Something that looked like a free election would have made it easier for Obama to sell his appeasement policy. We now know that the theory of “evolution within the Islamic regime,” so dear to Joe Biden, is pure nonsense. Totalitarian regimes cannot reform themselves.
64 pat  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:52:24am

re: #32 SlartyBartfast

A Persian friend of mine says that Iranian State TV is blaming Obama and the U.S. for all the violence. Nice, huh?

But no one will dare tell the Messiah lest he lose his head.

65 Dianna  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:52:27am

re: #18 mystry

So what does this mean for the poor guy who was in the streets trying to have a better life for himself and/or his family?

What it always means. That he stands a very good chance (because it’s not over yet) of getting bum-fucked sideways with a forty-grit condom.

66 soxfan4life  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:52:45am

re: #62 Land Shark

re: #56 Kenneth

Everytime 0bama talks about history he shows how little he knows about it.


Also how eager he is to revise it to fit his agenda.

67 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:52:50am

re: #57 iLikeCandy

ARAB!? Which ones? Sorry I’m out of it (haven’t had time to keep up on every development), but what’s with Arab goons in Iran?

LOTS of Twitter chatter about Hamas goons being used in Iran to attack protesters. Also, Lebanese Hizballah.

68 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:52:51am
69 jcm  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:52:57am

re: #61 VegasRick

We saw how “elite” they were in Iraq.

As long as their victims are unarmed, they’re elite. The rest of the time they’re cowards.

70 SlartyBartfast  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:53:01am

re: Land Shark

“Better to remain silent and have people think you’re ignorant,
than to open your mouth and remove all doubt,” right?

/Heh. Barry, the “student of history…” A D-student, nevertheless.

71 LatinGent  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:53:27am

re: #43 Baier

People don’t go out to the street to die for a “symbolic protest.”
This is bigger than that.

True this Baier, but the RG will put them down. Unless they can turn some officers to their cause.

72 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:53:27am

re: #59 pat

This is indeed the core of the problem. Like the Red Guard in China, the Revolutionary Guard in Iran has been richly rewarded. Materially, they control almost all manufacturing, energy delivery, and much of the transportation industry. Psychologically, they are free to rape, murder, kill and torture with impunity as they control the courts and the prisons. Thus Iran has descended into a Theocracy/Thugocracy. The Revolutionary Guard has no reason to want change.

They can’t be torturing with impunity, the American left would be screaming condemnation from the mountain tops.
//////////

73 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:54:15am

re: #54 FurryOldGuyJeans

The Palestinians are not needed. That the 3rd most holy site in Islam is not under Islamic control is enough. The Palestinians are just window dressing.

Fact check: the claim on the Dome of the Rock is based an a deliberate distortion of the Koran. There is no historical or Koranic basis to Muslim claims on any part of Jerusalem.

74 Dave the.....  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:54:22am

62 landshark

Everytime 0bama talks about history he shows how little he knows about it.

One of the National Review guys commented last year that Obama seems to have very little knowledge in history and economics. Not a good sign for a President.

Speaking of that….I see from on line news today that Obama has greatly increased gov’t regulation today. The story didn’t give specifics, but it seems to be a big power grab by the fed’l gov’t over the private sector.

75 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:54:47am

re: #62 Land Shark

Everytime 0bama talks about history he shows how little he knows about it.

My take on it.

76 MJ  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:54:51am

re: #58 Occasional Reader

You’re kidding me. (No, you’re not, I know.)

What was his twisted explanation of how that worked (out of morbid curiosity)?

Fox continues to interview this Jew-hater along with Pat Buchanan. Disgusting.

77 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:54:52am

Don’t give up hope for Iran yet. So long as you have Special Forces protecting the Mousavi supporters. Mousavi doing some very smart tactics with the protesters (keep it mostly peaceful and focused and giant crowds (reports that the protests are 500K+)). Ahmalphabet had to photoshop his crowds. And the Iranian Football team was even wearing green armbands. This is the kind of revolution that could transform a country… or break it.

78 mystry  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:54:57am

So, do we know if the Supreme Leader along with his Mullahs are still in power, or is the IR Guards with Ahmadinejad in charge of Iran? Does he control the Supreme Leader? I thought that the Guards were religious fanatic’s who swore allegiance to the religious state.

79 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:55:10am

re: #31 John Neverbend

I just came across this interview between Amir Taheri and Kathryn Jean Lopez which presents an interesting and alternative view.

Light on the Night

Fantastic read! Thanks for posting it

80 Buck  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:55:15am

re: #51 MJ

The antisemitic Michael Scheuer basically said it was Israel’s fault last night on O’Reilly.

I watched last night, and I didn’t notice that….

I have it TIVOd and will watch again…

81 jcm  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:55:32am

re: #72 CyanSnowHawk

They can’t be torturing with impunity, the American left would be screaming condemnation from the mountain tops.
//////////

Waterboarding is torture.

Crushing crowds under tank treads in maintaining order.

I thought everyone knew that.

//////

82 J.S.  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:55:40am

re: #27 tfc3rid

then, you haven’t been following CBC “news.” Of course Iranians (of a certain fervour) are blaming the Jews. (Reuters disguises it as substituting the word “foreigners” as opposed to what some are actually stating — ie, “Jews.” Thus, a protester states: “The violence is due to the Jews.” Reuters reports: “The violence is due to foreigners.”)

83 SummerSong  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:55:45am

The President is speaking live about new regulatory financial standards.

DJI is at +5 as he begins.

84 yma o hyd  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:56:12am

re: #31 John Neverbend

I just came across this interview between Amir Taheri and Kathryn Jean Lopez which presents an interesting and alternative view.

Light on the Night

From that link:
‘The military is also split; even the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC), the regime’s Praetorian Guard, does not appear to be immune to splits. The defense minister, an IRGC general, has endorsed Ahmadinejad in glowing terms. However, the current IRGC commander, another general, has remained silent. On Monday, IRGC units refused to enter Tehran to quell the demonstrations. And in at least two cities, Shiraz and Mashhad, IRGC units stood by and watched anti-regime demonstrations without reacting.’

Remarkable!

Things are moving so fast - and hardly anything is getting out, it look to me as if a lot of these theories abndied about right now, in the western MFM, are based on speculation instead of knowledge.

This gets dangerous if politicians abse their acts on such speculations.

85 opnion  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:56:25am

It’s the Army, everything depends on which way they go.
They can’t be happy about the Revolutionary Guards, a para military calling the shots.

86 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:56:38am
87 Dianna  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:56:42am

re: #71 LatinGent

True this Baier, but the RG will put them down. Unless they can turn some officers to their cause.

That depends on how smart the opposition is. Really.

There is always a limit to the number of RG units available. And they need fuel, food, communications and a place to regroup.

It’s possible to wear them out, run them out of fuel, and interrupt their food and sleep. It takes nerve and coordination, but it can be done.

88 notutopia  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:56:49am

A preplanned military dictatorship. Hmmm.
If this is true, and it is quite likely, then Ahmedinehad has revealed his truly deceitful and crafty subversion to cause utter mayhem to the middle east with his nuclear powers.
The present revolt is nothing more than a “wag the dog” for him.
There is NO difference in the new candidate that’s inciting this revolt. He’s just as corrupt as Ahmedinejad.

89 experiencedtraveller  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:57:00am

Tyrannical regimes never die easy. Never.

90 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:57:38am

re: #73 Kenneth

Fact check: the claim on the Dome of the Rock is based an a deliberate distortion of the Koran. There is no historical or Koranic basis to Muslim claims on any part of Jerusalem.

That will not stop the propagandizing. Facts are not needed.

Simple fact is that Jerusalem was at one under Islamic control, and therefore is to be returned to Islamic control. The reasons are just window dressing.

91 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:58:00am

re: #81 jcm

Waterboarding is torture.

Crushing crowds under tank treads in maintaining order.

I thought everyone knew that.

//////

How could I have missed that? Thanks for clarifying jcm.

92 opnion  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:58:35am

re: #80 Buck

I watched last night, and I didn’t notice that….

I have it TIVOd and will watch again…

I caught & that ass did blame Israel.

93 tfc3rid  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:59:20am

re: #83 SummerSong

The President is speaking live about new regulatory financial standards.

DJI is at +5 as he begins.

March of the Socialists!

94 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:59:24am

re: #64 pat

But no one will dare tell the Messiah lest he lose his head.

Just as food for thought, The Iranian State absolutely needs the US to be the Great Satan, without a unifying external enemy to try to rally people around, they’re finding themselves flailing and desperate to the point of making stuff up. Of course they want to blame Obama, and they’re hoping that somehow the US will misstep and they’ll be able to push the Meme that the US is behind it all and the Mousavi crowd are simply a tool of the Great Satan.

Mousavi’s group may or may not force change, but I can’t see how Obama is doing the wrong thing with this one. And it was better than the inane and simpering note from the EU recognizing the results of the election and Ahmalphabet less than a day after the polls closed.

95 FrogMarch  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:59:24am

They have a real mess over there, that’s for sure. Answers? Solutions? It would be nice if we could help over-throw the theocratic/militaristic regime and its iron grip.

96 tfc3rid  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:59:46am

re: #89 experiencedtraveller

Tyrannical regimes never die easy. Never.

They never die without bloodshed…

97 Dianna  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:59:56am

re: #86 taxfreekiller

So, some one goes to Iran, “you stir up trouble, give us cover as we do our deal, then we make a deal with you after we get power,” win/win?

Not if State gets anywhere near it. They’d look for somebody “authentic”, and we all know where that ends up.

98 J.S.  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:59:59am

re: #88 notutopia

On “foreign affairs” Ahamadinejad and Mousavi are basically the same (Mousavi doesn’t use the harsh rhetoric, but policies are the same)— it’s on domestic issues where there’s a degree of difference…(but also, Mousavi would never — according to most analysts — threaten the structure of the regime itself — that is, act as a revolutionary and overthrow the structure of the Iranian government).

99 yma o hyd  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:00:53am

‘Change for iran’ tweeted:
‘it looks everybody talking about IRG forces replacing Police & basij, I haven’t seen any IRG soldiers today.’
And:
‘today’s demonstration was a real victory & fortunately there were no basij/Sepah HQ in the way & nothing bad happened’

100 jcm  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:01:20am

re: #90 FurryOldGuyJeans

That will not stop the propagandizing. Facts are not needed.

Simple fact is that Jerusalem was at one under Islamic control, and therefore is to be returned to Islamic control. The reasons are just window dressing.

Any part of the globe once under Islam, is by rights Islam’s.

Kinda like the Toddler’s Creed.

If I want it, it’s mine.
If I give it to you and change my mind later, it’s mine.
If I can take it away from you, it’s mine.
If I had it a little while ago, it’s mine.
If it’s mine, it will never belong to anybody else, no matter what.
If we are building something together, all the pieces are mine.
If it looks just like mine, it is mine.

101 filetandrelease  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:01:31am

The imported fighters used to assault the protester seem a potential target for the Iranian Regular Army if they decide to support the protesters. The rule of unintended consequences suggest a potential back lash, or opportunity.

102 Bob Dillon  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:02:12am

re: #11 JohnnyReb

Oh and don’t forget he wants Israel destroyed so he can usher in that 13th Uman dude out of the well.

It’s the 12th imam dude Ahmadinejad wants to usher in. ;-)

103 notutopia  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:02:26am

re: #98 J.S.

On “foreign affairs” Ahamadinejad and Mousavi are basically the same (Mousavi doesn’t use the harsh rhetoric, but policies are the same)— it’s on domestic issues where there’s a degree of difference…(but also, Mousavi would never — according to most analysts — threaten the structure of the regime itself — that is, act as a revolutionary and overthrow the structure of the Iranian government).

Then what exactly IS he doing then? It sure looks like an attempt on his part to incite the overthrow of the Iranian government.

104 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:02:28am

re: #76 MJ

I loved how this alleged brainiac expert referred to Israeli PM “Notenyayhu”.

105 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:02:50am

re: #88 notutopia

A preplanned military dictatorship. Hmmm.
If this is true, and it is quite likely, then Ahmedinehad has revealed his truly deceitful and crafty subversion to cause utter mayhem to the middle east with his nuclear powers.
The present revolt is nothing more than a “wag the dog” for him.
There is NO difference in the new candidate that’s inciting this revolt. He’s just as corrupt as Ahmedinejad.

And it is good he did this BEFORE Iran got nukes. Unless they have some already - I suspect it was an Iranian (or really Pakistani) design that North Korea detonated.

106 Lincolntf  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:02:52am

re: #85 opnion

If one courageous Army commander and some loyal troops launched a shell or two at whatever serves as the Iranian White House or Capitol (kind of like what happened at the Kremlin), it would be the strongest possible statement that this is the real deal. Not saying it’s likely, and it may very well trigger a civil war, but the damage immediately become an indelible image and perhaps be the impetus for other commanders to join the people.

107 FrogMarch  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:03:07am

I know what will help - have the American media self-indulgently refer to Ahmadinejad as George Bush. (Even after years of lefties saying - ‘hey! I like this Ahmadinejad! - he’s speaking our language!’)/You know, Military and theocracy and cracking down on dissent - there’s ZERO difference between the US and Iran.

108 LGoPs  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:03:23am

re: #100 jcm

Any part of the globe once under Islam, is by rights Islam’s.

Kinda like the Toddler’s Creed.

If I want it, it’s mine.
If I give it to you and change my mind later, it’s mine.
If I can take it away from you, it’s mine.
If I had it a little while ago, it’s mine.
If it’s mine, it will never belong to anybody else, no matter what.
If we are building something together, all the pieces are mine.
If it looks just like mine, it is mine
.

Those are also the basic tenets of the Democratic Party. Amazing coincidence.
/

109 SlartyBartfast  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:03:40am

re: #94 bloodstar

re: #64 pat


Just as food for thought, The Iranian State absolutely needs the US to be the Great Satan, without a unifying external enemy to try to rally people around, they’re finding themselves flailing and desperate to the point of making stuff up…

Mark Steyn made a good point about “the Great Satan” a few weeks ago:

[Obama’s] multicontinental apology tours are his way of kicking the can down the road until that blessed day when America is just another sclerotic Euro-style social democracy and even your more excitable jihadi won’t be able to jump up and down chanting, “Death to the Great Satan!” with a straight face.

Maybe that’s BHO’s Nat’l Defense strategy…

110 JohnnyReb  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:03:47am

re: #102 Bobibutu

It’s the 12th imam dude Ahmadinejad wants to usher in. ;-)

I was never any good at math!

111 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:03:59am

re: #95 FrogMarch

You’re back…everything okay?

112 A.W.  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:04:24am

Charles:

two stories to look at on the iran issue, both at hot air last i checked. the first is they have found another photoshop attempt by the regime, this time to make their pro-regime protests look bigger than they are.

Meanwhile, a big cleric over there has denounced the election, for reasons that are obvious to pretty much everyone who thinks. and actually that is more or less his argument. its a giant “no duh!”

can’t offer links. sorry long story, but go over and check it out.

personally i am cautiously optimistic that the regime will go down. and yeah, mousavi might not be better in the short term, but he might end up being a transitional figure, like Yeltsin, who oversees the fall and then is shoved aside by the new kids.

113 nyc redneck  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:04:57am

well o is well situated to engage the killers w/out conditions because he didn’t take a position on what was going on.
o thinks he has impressed the thugs w/ his hopeful openness and they will surely unclench and allow him to advance his ability to engage them in new
ways.
whatever.
the mullahs and tyrants of iran have no respect for o.
he is a useful idiot to them. they see his neediness. his desire to feel important. his weakness. his desperate urge to ‘connect’ w/ them.
and the citizens of iran must frown when they think of him, now.
the citizens he let down, by his failure to speak out like a concerned citizen (of the world), not even as potus.
he is a massive disappointment.
and the tyrants can’t wait to slap him around.

114 Dianna  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:05:27am

re: #103 notutopia

Then what exactly IS he doing then? It sure looks like an attempt on his part to incite the overthrow of the Iranian government.

He’s riding the wave.

Bet: he ends up left behind.

115 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:05:29am

Video of today’s protests….

The silence is a little eerie.

116 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:05:39am

Yo tengo hambre.

Lunch.

117 FrogMarch  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:06:25am

re: #111 scottishbuzzsaw

You’re back…everything okay?

Not sure yet. I have more tests next week. oh joy! The good news is, I think it will more than likely be a cyst. (you get my drift)

118 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:06:42am

re: #78 mystry

The up until now, the power of the Islamic Republic has been held by the Council of Guardians. This unelected body is composed of senior mullahs, religious scholars. The Supreme Leader is chosen by the Council from among their members. Ayatollah Khamenei is the current Supreme Ruler. The Guardians make all important appointments, approve lists of candidates standing for elections and set gov’t policy. The elected parliament and the President have relatively little power.

But… the mullahs have been growing old and corrupt. They are more interested in wealth and power than in looking after the country. In 2005 a reformer ran for election as President. He was formerly the mayor of Tehran and had a solid base among the shopkeepers and merchants in the cities & the peasants in the countryside. He had a reputation for fighting corruption and for deep religious piety. He had the support of the fanatically religious faction of mullahs but was opposed by the conservative/corrupt faction. He won the election (also said to have been rigged). This was Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Ahmadinejad was also a former officer of the IRGC. Over the past 4 years, Ahmadinejad has placed IRGC commanders in key positions in the government. Now they are ready to move against the last vestiges of the old mullahs. Khamenei supported Ahmadinejad in order to hold onto power. He miscalculated. He may stay in office, but his power will be gone. From now on the real power will be in the hands of the President Ahmadinejad and the senior commanders of the IRGC.

Unless the people can prevail…

119 Desert Dog  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:06:57am

re: #115 Killgore Trout

No Chanting today?

120 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:07:14am
121 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:07:36am

This has nothing to do with the news, but the word Qods has set me off again.

What is for many the holiest city in the world has such a beautiful old name, in many variations.

Yerushalayim
Hierosolyma
Jerusalem

And what do the Arabs call it? “Quds” or “Qods”.

If phonetics are any indication, an Arab East Jerusalem would be an ugly place indeed.

Pretty obvious, but I needed to say that.

122 Desert Dog  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:07:50am

re: #118 Kenneth

Looks like everyone underestimated ShortShit, eh?

123 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:08:01am

re: #107 FrogMarch

I know what will help - have the American media self-indulgently refer to Ahmadinejad as George Bush. (Even after years of lefties saying - ‘hey! I like this Ahmadinejad! - he’s speaking our language!’)/You know, Military and theocracy and cracking down on dissent - there’s ZERO difference between the US and Iran.

It would be nice to make a political gain out of that depravity but there’s way to many comments on the right equating Ahmadinejad and Obama. It’s stupid no matter which side it comes from.

124 nyc redneck  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:08:28am

re: #89 experiencedtraveller

Tyrannical regimes never die easy. Never.

mugabe.

125 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:08:41am

re: #119 Desert Dog

They’re very quiet. A little talking but other than that they’re silent.

126 razorbacker  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:08:51am

I just heard a Lt. Col. define ROMA data.

Right Out of My Ass.

Friends and neighbors, if you don’t think I’m stealing that one, you just haven’t been paying attention.

127 poteen  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:09:06am

re: #1 thedopefishlives

I don’t know if I’d go so far as to call it a “symbolic protest”.

‘Symbolic’ protests do no good and usually involve The Pink Puppet People so artfully presented by Zombie.

128 notutopia  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:09:16am

re: #114 Dianna

I agree, he’s just a pawn to flush out the non-allies of Ahmedenajad.
He is an evil mastermind. We, the Middle East, and Israel are in for hell.

129 Dianna  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:09:31am

re: #125 Killgore Trout

They’re very quiet. A little talking but other than that they’re silent.

That says to me that they’re realizing how serious things are.

130 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:09:46am

re: #117 FrogMarch

Not sure yet. I have more tests next week. oh joy! The good news is, I think it will more than likely be a cyst. (you get my drift)

I do…{FrogMarch}.

131 Bob Dillon  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:09:48am

re: #110 JohnnyReb

I was never any good at math!

Had an associate like that way back when - we all accused him of not being able to count as his primary challenge in life.

132 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:09:55am
133 FrogMarch  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:10:03am

re: #123 Killgore Trout

It would be nice to make a political gain out of that depravity but there’s way to many comments on the right equating Ahmadinejad and Obama. It’s stupid no matter which side it comes from.

A comments section is one thing - CBS news saying it, is another.

134 J.S.  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:10:11am

re: #103 notutopia

Mousavi wants to have the election results annulled, followed by another vote. The Supreme Leader (who has endorsed Ahamdinejad) says, “no,” but there will be an examination/second look at some of the voting returns/counts in certain areas…

135 capitalist piglet  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:10:15am

re: #123 Killgore Trout

It would be nice to make a political gain out of that depravity but there’s way to many comments on the right equating Ahmadinejad and Obama. It’s stupid no matter which side it comes from.

Where are you seeing this, Killgore? I don’t think I’ve seen that once.

136 CIA Reject  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:10:24am

re: #126 razorbacker

I just heard a Lt. Col. define ROMA data.

Right Out of My Ass.

Friends and neighbors, if you don’t think I’m stealing that one, you just haven’t been paying attention.

ROMA data is used as a source for that time honored analytical technique: MSU (for Make Sh*t Up).

137 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:10:30am

re: #121 Cato the Elder

This has nothing to do with the news, but the word Qods has set me off again.

What is for many the holiest city in the world has such a beautiful old name, in many variations.

Yerushalayim
Hierosolyma
Jerusalem

And what do the Arabs call it? “Quds” or “Qods”.

If phonetics are any indication, an Arab East Jerusalem would be an ugly place indeed.

Pretty obvious, but I needed to say that.

The Arab word Qods comes from the Hebrew work Kadosh= “Holy”

138 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:11:09am

re: #121 Cato the Elder

This has nothing to do with the news, but the word Qods has set me off again.

What is for many the holiest city in the world has such a beautiful old name, in many variations.

Yerushalayim
Hierosolyma
Jerusalem

And what do the Arabs call it? “Quds” or “Qods”.

If phonetics are any indication, an Arab East Jerusalem would be an ugly place indeed.

Pretty obvious, but I needed to say that.

I remember a Hebrew School teacher showing slides of their trip to Israel, pre-1967. They went in through Jordan so they could see East Jerusalem, and took a picture of the Wall. It was behind a group of tenement buildings and they threw trash against the Wall. It was ugly.

The only reason the Arabs haven’t torn it down is because if they did, the whole terrace would come down, taking the Al Asqa mosque and the Dome of the Rock with it.

139 poteen  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:11:34am

re: #120 buzzsawmonkey

Scheuer, in the clip, pronounces Netanyahu’s name as “Nat-ahn-yay-hoo.” Come on; Netanyahu’s been on the world stage for decades, and his name is easy to pronounce. It should be a piece of cake for someone who, like Scheuer, was heading the CIA’s Osama Bin Laden unit, and who therefore should be quite at ease with pronouncing Middle Eastern names.

Or further proof of the Peter Principle.

140 John Neverbend  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:11:39am
Fox continues to interview this Jew-hater along with Pat Buchanan. Disgusting.

His implication at the end of the interview that Israel wants to drag America into a war with Iran is nonsense, and is not supported by the outcome of the meeting between Netanyahu (which Scheuer pronounced as “Natunyayhoo”, showing just who is the real yahu in this case) and Obama. He didn’t even have the courtesy to say why Israel is concerned about Iran. All in all a pointless interview.

141 Zimriel  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:12:03am

This doom and gloom from the NYT does not match at all what I’m seeing on Sullivan’s twitter posts. Over there it looks like the mullahs are publicly withdrawing support from Khamanei and Ahmadaveradaneghglagh.

If Khamanei gets declared an apostate by the Shi’a I will laugh very loud and long.

142 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:12:41am

re: #115 Killgore Trout

Video of today’s protests….

[Video]The silence is a little eerie.

From WSJ, “…Mousavi called for a mass rally Thursday to protest election results and violence against his followers.”

Tomorrow will tell where this is going. If the momentum is dying, it should be apparent.

I am wondering however, could the Mullahs be using this to shove aside dinnerjacket now? After seeing claims, or at least the occasional accusation, that they had a hand in selecting Mousavi as his opponent, I have to wonder if it really matters to them which one actually wins. The dynamics of this are complex to say the least.

143 notutopia  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:12:53am

re: #134 J.S.

Again, for what end result? Perhaps I’m too much a realist, but this revolt is only being condoned to “flush out” those in government who oppose Ahmedinajad.

144 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:12:55am
145 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:13:12am

re: #112 A.W.

Re: fauxtography. Here’s a link to my coverage, and here, which first noticed.

146 KenJen  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:13:33am

re: #128 notutopia

I agree, he’s just a pawn to flush out the non-allies of Ahmedenajad.
He is an evil mastermind. We, the Middle East, and Israel are in for hell.

That is exactly what Michael Rubin said was happening. He said this before the election.

147 Baier  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:14:00am

re: #127 poteen

‘Symbolic’ protests do no good and usually involve The Pink Puppet People so artfully presented by Zombie.

In that case the Times is an example of “Symbolic Journalism”

148 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:14:01am

re: #137 Alouette

The Arab word Qods comes from the Hebrew work Kadosh= “Holy”

Yes, I knew that. Still ugly compared with “Yerushalayim”, don’t you think?

149 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:14:03am

re: #109 SlartyBartfast

I have my worries about Obama, but if apologizing to people for past mistakes helps disarm the countries, all the while maintaining defense spending that more than doubles the entire EU and is more than the rest of the world combined, then I think apologizing while maintaining a position of strength does very little harm and could be a useful projection of soft power.

Kill ‘em with kindness, and if that doesn’t work, then hammer them into submission ;)

oh, and hello people, Finally got to sign up and join in the discussions!

150 iLikeCandy  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:14:28am

re: #67 Occasional Reader

LOTS of Twitter chatter about Hamas goons being used in Iran to attack protesters. Also, Lebanese Hizballah.

Thanks. I suspected Lebanon, but wow. That’s covering a lot of territory fast.

151 FrogMarch  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:14:29am

re: #130 scottishbuzzsaw

I do…{FrogMarch}.

{You’re the best, Scottishbuzzsaw}
I’ll be ok - I’m not worried yet. I will worry when any test comes back with a bad answer. Besides, I’m too stressed out about everything else to worry!

152 Buster  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:14:31am

re: #41 soxfan4life

How soon until it is Israel’s fault. The 0bama claim might be an effort to kill their hope for US intervention

It all goes to show that: no matter how conciliatory our Government tries to be, we will always be the Great Satan for dictators to blame. When their rule is threatened they blame America and buy some time. Obama needs to study Carter’s and Regan’s response to the issues of their day (Soviet Union) and the results of their actions. Of course he won’t…he is to smart for that.

153 J.S.  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:15:32am

re: #141 Zimriel

That’s also what I’ve been reading — the Supreme Leader may be facing a review by his peers…(he could be removed.)

154 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:16:10am

re: #90 FurryOldGuyJeans

That part is true.

155 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:16:32am

re: #105 Kosh’s Shadow

And it is good he did this BEFORE Iran got nukes. Unless they have some already - I suspect it was an Iranian (or really Pakistani) design that North Korea detonated.

My guess would be that both Iran and N. Korea got their blueprints from A.Q. Kahn.

156 poteen  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:17:13am

re: #144 buzzsawmonkey

True enough , but my point is that if he is that petty, he shouldn’t even be heading the CIA lunchroom.

157 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:17:43am
158 LGoPs  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:18:22am

The most elite unit in the ‘elite’ Revolutionary Guard is the 10,000 Immorals.
They get merit badges for blowing up women and children.
/ *spit*

159 Zimriel  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:18:25am

re: #149 bloodstar

oh, and hello people, Finally got to sign up and join in the discussions!

Welcome !

160 poteen  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:18:52am

re: #147 Baier

A well fitting shoe….

161 MJ  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:20:02am

re: #140 John Neverbend

His implication at the end of the interview that Israel wants to drag America into a war with Iran is nonsense, and is not supported by the outcome of the meeting between Netanyahu (which Scheuer pronounced as “Natunyayhoo”, showing just who is the real yahu in this case) and Obama. He didn’t even have the courtesy to say why Israel is concerned about Iran. All in all a pointless interview.

Scheuer’s message is that Israel is looking for America to spill it’s blood for it.
It’s essentially a modern version of a blood libel. Scheuer is an antisemite. This is hardly the first time he’s made antisemitic comments.

162 quickjustice  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:20:54am

re: #120 buzzsawmonkey

President Obama does the same thing: takes pains to pronounce foreign names and places as the natives do. (“Kooba”, the Spanish pronunciation, for “Cuba”).

It’s highly didactic, and in his case, pretentious, particularly if he’s speaking to an American audience.

163 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:21:34am
164 Westward Ho  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:21:38am

I knew he was much more than a coarse bufoon. Beware of the political prowess of short runts who preach populism and are from socially humble backgrounds. Rings many a historical bell doesn’t it?

165 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:21:44am
166 quickjustice  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:22:06am

The Iranian people are smart about this. They know that this may be their only shot for a generation.

167 John Neverbend  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:24:25am

re: #120 buzzsawmonkey

I see that Scheuer, like NPR commentators, makes a point of mispronouncing Israeli names.

When I lived in England, this sort of deliberate pismronunciation was de rigueur for the BBC. Apparently, the then prime minister of Israel was one Yitchak Raybin. Mind you, I think the BBC used to toe the Saudi line by referring to the “Tel-Aviv government”.

Speaking of Yerushalayim or Al-Quds, remember that it was called Jebus (Ye’vus), before it became Jerusalem.

168 Buck  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:26:27am

The 12th Imam is a five year old boy who got lost around the 13th century.

I can imagine what really happened to him…

169 John Neverbend  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:27:49am

re: #161 MJ

Scheuer’s message is that Israel is looking for America to spill it’s blood for it.
It’s essentially a modern version of a blood libel. Scheuer is an antisemite. This is hardly the first time he’s made antisemitic comments.

I think O’Reilly should have deliberately mispronounced his name, interchanging between “Shooer” and “Skewer”. It would have helped create some confusion.

170 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:27:50am

Ahhh, a sekrit coup.

171 Zimriel  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:28:06am

re: #118 Kenneth

The Supreme Leader is chosen by the Council from among their members. Ayatollah Khamenei is the current Supreme Ruler.

I’d forgotten that Khamanei was an Ayatollah at all until the most recent articles. I can certainly attest to the NYT’s comments that he’s a “lightweight” in theology. If you spend any time in Shi’a comment boards, you will find that the one whose fatwas are considered most authoritative is Sistani in Iraq. Sometimes Sanei. Definitely the late Khomeini (unfortunately for us).

Nobody gives much of a shit about what comes out of Khamanei’s mouth, except insofar as it makes the news.

172 Zimriel  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:30:14am

re: #167 John Neverbend

Speaking of Yerushalayim or Al-Quds, remember that it was called Jebus (Ye’vus), before it became Jerusalem.

But even during the Bronze Age, under Akhenaton in Egypt, his Canaanite correspondents called it “Urusalim”. I don’t know where the Bible pulled “Jebus” from.

173 poteen  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:30:38am

re: #163 buzzsawmonkey

You know whats funny is that I listened to a few Obama interviews on NPR before he ran for POTUS and there were none of the halting, tortured pauses that are so prevalent in his teleprompted speeches. He was actually pretty smooth. I think it has to do with having to read something that someone else wrote or isn’t quite what he’s thinking about

174 Dianna  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:31:31am

re: #134 J.S.

Mousavi wants to have the election results annulled, followed by another vote. The Supreme Leader (who has endorsed Ahamdinejad) says, “no,” but there will be an examination/second look at some of the voting returns/counts in certain areas…

1905 strategy.

Won’t work.

175 Silvergirl  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:33:03am

re: #149 bloodstar

I have my worries about Obama, but if apologizing to people for past mistakes helps disarm the countries, all the while maintaining defense spending that more than doubles the entire EU and is more than the rest of the world combined, then I think apologizing while maintaining a position of strength does very little harm and could be a useful projection of soft power.

Kill ‘em with kindness, and if that doesn’t work, then hammer them into submission ;)

oh, and hello people, Finally got to sign up and join in the discussions!

Yes, as Zimriel said, welcome!

As to your comments on the apology tour, thumbs down.

176 jcm  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:33:20am

re: #168 Buck

The 12th Imam is a five year old boy who got lost around the 13th century.

I can imagine what really happened to him…

He fell into a well……

177 Zimriel  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:36:23am

re: #176 jcm

He fell into a well……

Pity that Muslims have a thing against dogs, or Lassie would have fished him out in an hour

178 quickjustice  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:37:01am

re: #174 Dianna

Unfortunately, full revolution is all that can save them now. I’m hopeful, but not optimistic, that they’re up to it.

At some point, the demonstrators and their allies in the military will have to start seizing the centers of economic and military power, the arsenals, television stations, refineries, government buildings, etc. If they fail to move on that, Ahmadinejad and the Guards have called their bluff, and the demonstrations will peter out.

In a couple of years, the next scenes from Iran we’re likely to see are of the ruins from the nuclear exchange.

179 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:37:04am
180 aggieann  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:37:22am

re: #167 John Neverbend

When I lived in England, this sort of deliberate pismronunciation was de rigueur for the BBC.

Must explain why for years I’ve referred to the BBC as the Boob.

181 Silvergirl  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:44:26am

re: #162 quickjustice

President Obama does the same thing: takes pains to pronounce foreign names and places as the natives do. (“Kooba”, the Spanish pronunciation, for “Cuba”).

It’s highly didactic, and in his case, pretentious, particularly if he’s speaking to an American audience.

I couldn’t find a video, but here’s the SNL transcript of the over-pronouncing in an old NBC news skit.

182 notutopia  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 11:00:51am

Totten’s hit the Bulls eye Mark!
That military state Iran (AhMADman), neither NEEDS nor WANTS accommodation with the West.

183 Rancher  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 11:01:53am

I thought this is what happened. The Supreme Leader let Mousavi run but Ahmadinejad’s Interior Minister counted the votes, or rather ignored the votes. Ahmadinejad must now control the military, something that is not supposed to be under the President’s control but rather the Supreme Leader. Ahmadinejad may control the upper echelons of the Basiji but the fanatics that make up that organization are zealots that will do Khomeini’s bidding. So far Khomeini seems to be supporting Ahmadinejad, he approved the election results twice now, but I don’t think the Mullahs will give up power that easily. This thing could blow up to huge proportions if there really is a power struggle going on between the military and the clergy.

184 Zimriel  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 11:02:28am

I was right the first time - Khamanei is not an ayatollah. He is a “Hujjat al-Islam” which is a rank further down.

185 Ramona  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 11:10:02am

re: #115 Killgore Trout


Silence is eerie.


Leadership has been telling every one to tone down the rhetoric, not to incite the police, or IRCG (?). I’ve caught some videos where you can see marchers sshhing other marchers.

186 kansas  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 11:13:09am

re: #32 SlartyBartfast

A Persian friend of mine says that Iranian State TV is blaming Obama and the U.S. for all the violence. Nice, huh?

What do you think he’ll do when his effigy starts “hanging around”?

187 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 11:17:25am

re: #184 Zimriel

I’m not disputing your point, but I have read news reports in which Khamenei is referred to as “Ayatollah”… maybe the media reporters don;t know what they are talking about? Good heavens!

188 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 11:18:46am

re: #184 Zimriel

That picture of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps commanders on the page you linked to… what a fun looking bunch of guys!

189 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 11:22:46am

The Leaders of Iran’s ‘Election Coup’

When the Hojjatiyeh started to make a comeback in the 1990s, its member no longer used that name. In fact, some of them even denied that they belonged to the Hojjatiyeh. Instead of believing in a chaotic society for the return of the Mahdi, they began advocating an Islamic Government led by an unelected Supreme Leader, rather than an Islamic Republic. Their present leader is Ayatollah Mohammad Taghi Mesbah Yazdi, a hard-liner who has openly opposed any elections. Ayatollah Mesbah Yazdi issued a Fatwa two weeks ago saying that if the achievements of Mr. Ahmadinejad in spreading Islamic values around the world, it is proper to do what it takes to re-elect him, implying that fraud and cheating are allowed (a view which has been rejected by other Ayatollahs). He once said, It does not matter what people think. They are ignorant sheep.

Ayatollah Mesbah Yazdi believes that sovereignty does not reside with the people — it resides with God. He also believes that the Supreme Leader is selected by God and is Mahdi’s deputy in his absence. In his opinion, the task of the ayatollahs in the Assembly of Experts (AE), a constitutional body that appoints the Supreme Leader and monitors his performance (and can even dismiss him), is to discover who the selected Leader is. He believes people must never question the Supreme Leader and obey him absolutely. He is currently a member of the AE. Former reformist president Mohammad Khatami has referred to Ayatollah Mesbah Yazdi’s followers as shallow-thinking traditionalists with Stone-Age backwardness.

190 Kenneth  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 11:34:18am

The goals behind the coup include the following:

The first goal is to purge first-generation revolutionary leaders (with the exception of Ayatollah Khamenei). The main target here is former president Rafsanjani, a powerful politician who heads two important Constitutional bodies, the Assembly of Experts (AE), and the Expediency Council that arbitrates the differences between the Majles (parliament) and the Guardian Council. Also included in this group are Mr. Ali Akbar Nategh Nouri, a mid-ranking cleric, former Speaker of the Majles, and a strong critic of Mr. Ahmadinejad; Mr. Mahdi Karroubi, the second reformist candidate in the election and a disciple of Ayatollah Khomeini; and Mr. Mir Hossein Mousavi, the main reformist candidate, and Iran’s Prime Minister in the 1980s.

Why do they want them out of the scene? For two reasons. One is that the coup leaders consider themselves — and rightly so — as the saviors of Iran. They are the ones who fought Iraq for eight years. Secondly, at least part of the IRGC high command wishes Iran to be in a perpetual revolutionary state, but believes that the first-generation of revolutionaries have sold out the ideals of the 1979 Revolution.

191 Wendya  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 11:36:05am

re: #17 filetandrelease

I wasn’t expecting that, and hope it is premature and incorrect.

Consider the source.

192 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 11:50:33am

re: #7 jemima

Freedom is worth fighting for and dying for. If freedom has value, then shrug and accept being a slave of the state or the mullahs. It’s not called “hard won freedom” because some questions were answered correctly on a game show, it’s because fellow citizens died to make others free. Sad but true.

If it was only the dying, I’d say these folks were there. The problem is that people at Concord and Lexington didn’t just scream ‘we’ve had enough!’, they had a plan. Leaders. I fear that Iran’s opposition doesn’t have the same, they will die with nothing to show for it.

193 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 11:55:57am

re: #27 tfc3rid

In all the nonsense and disinformation and information thus far, I am seriously shocked that the nutty Mullahs and a-Jihad have not blamed this all on the Jews and the Jewish State. I’m seriously shocked…

My fear is, they will eventually and it’s their impetus for attacking Israel.

I got a Twitter forwarded to me this morning, claiming that Mousavi (which means ‘of Moses’!) is a Jew, and the whole thing is a Zionist conspiracy. Don’t think they ain’t using it.

194 Clubsec  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 12:03:55pm

The article says (at one point): “… crushed by the elite Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps.”
Elite my ass … the are criminal thugs. The are even less ‘elite’ than the Iraqi ‘Elite’ Republican Guards’ who when facing a REAL ARMY (i.e. the US Army’s 3rd Infantry Division & a Marine MEU) most of them folded like a cheap lawn chair. A few fought heroically but most dropped their weapons & uniforms and skulked away from a real nobullshit fighting force.
I’ll say it again … elite my ass.
Oklahoma Highway Patrol could kick their collective asses.

195 bj  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 12:18:54pm

Word is hamas (Palestinian in particular) is there helping the elite guard thugs with “crowd control”. Others say it’s Lebanese or Syrian.

196 Land Shark  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 12:20:58pm

re: #194 Clubsec

Well said. Any group of thugs can look “elite” when attacking unarmed civilians and the helpless. It’s quite another thing when said group of “elite” thugs runs into a well trained military force.

197 guftafs  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 12:46:51pm

Seriously complicated … like trying to untangle the bureaucracy of Nazi Germany without the benefit of history books and hindsight. Let’s see where it ends …

198 lostlakehiker  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 1:07:02pm

re: #5 sattv4u2

Damn. I’ve been saying since this started. It’s not the “police” the Iranians had to worry about. I wasn’t Ahmedinijad per se. It was (and is) the Revolutionary Guard. Even if the regular Army were to side with the people (as was speculated yesterday) they are no match in firepower and fanaticism as the Guard

Damn!

Not so fast there. In Romania, the regular army sided with the people, while the Romanian SS (NKVD, Gestapo, KGB, Republican Guards, the names vary but it’s always the same types) sided with Ceaucescu.

The people in their collective mass can tip the scales if they get some sort of genuine military help. Ceaucescu lost, though his side had more and better weapons.

That said, fascist regimes die hard and revolution is dangerous. The non-Islamic non-republic of Iran, now spitting on fatwas issued by genuine clerics insisting on fair elections, is a regime with a core of brownshirts and violence is their stock in trade. They’ve dropped the last pretense of legitimacy, but they’re reaching for a nuclear sword. When they get it, will they show even the unimpressive level of calm judgment and prudence of the Supreme Council of Mullahs, who have now been quietly overthrown?

199 Clubsec  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 1:18:08pm

Silent protest? Keep in mind Lizards … it is very difficult to get away with ‘gun fire’ (from unknown sources) if the place is very quiet.
If you catch my meaning, if you get my drift.

200 hazzyday  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 1:31:50pm

re: #79 _RememberTonyC

Fantastic read! Thanks for posting it

From that article.

Today, the U.S. has a choice: It can side with the Iranian people and invest in a future democratic Iran, or it can beg for a dialogue with the Islamofacists gathered around Ali Khamenei.

Pres Obama seems to be siding with the despot for political gain.

201 hazzyday  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 1:41:59pm

re: #123 Killgore Trout

It would be nice to make a political gain out of that depravity but there’s way to many comments on the right equating Ahmadinejad and Obama. It’s stupid no matter which side it comes from.

Looking at the news from Iran I gather the students are following the example of Pres Obama and wanting hope and change. I think I see that some of them have hope in Pres. Obama. Pres Obama’s mistake here is trying to fence sit until something clear emerges.

202 Hawaii69  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 1:51:53pm

re: #201 hazzyday

Looking at the news from Iran I gather the students are following the example of Pres Obama and wanting hope and change. I think I see that some of them have hope in Pres. Obama. Pres Obama’s mistake here is trying to fence sit until something clear emerges.

What Obama has been trying to avoid, is this:

Iran accuses US of meddling after disputed vote

203 Hawaii69  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 1:57:38pm

re: #200 hazzyday

Pres Obama seems to be siding with the despot for political gain.

It’s naive to think that this is any kind of “revolution”
in the making.

Moussavi just represents a different faction of
the same establishment.

204 Reluctant Democrat  Wed, Jun 17, 2009 8:28:03pm

And Obama fiddles while Iran burns.

He’s Jimmy Carter II for sure. What Iran is to become is even scarier than the theocracy brought about by Carter’s inaction.

205 GreatWizard  Thu, Jun 18, 2009 5:30:54am

I think nothing is worse then the theocracy, considering what the Taliban and Iran theocracies did. A military rule could be eventually more reasonable. Mousavi is a reformist but it’s like saying that Goebbels is better then Hitler. Mousavi did many of the things Ahmedinijad does. He is just less of a mumbling baboon.

I think it’s great he wasn’t elected. He would have gotten political gains for Iran, and he would continue the same terrorist funding and nuclear research policy Iran is known for.


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