Krauthammer: Obamacare: The Coming Retreat

OpinionJuly 2009 • Views: 5,924

Charles Krauthammer’s Friday column examines the reasons for the collapse of Barack Obama’s massive health care reform: Obama Will Settle for Less on Health Care.

Whatever structural reforms dribble out of Congress before the August recess will likely not survive the year. In the end, Obama will have to settle for something very modest. And indeed it will be health-insurance reform.

To win back the vast constituency that has insurance, is happy with it, and is mightily resisting the fatal lures of Obamacare, the president will in the end simply impose heavy regulations on the insurance companies that will make what you already have secure, portable and imperishable: no policy cancellations, no preexisting condition requirements, perhaps even a cap on out-of-pocket expenses.

Nirvana. But wouldn’t this bankrupt the insurance companies? Of course it would. There will be only one way to make this work: Impose an individual mandate. Force the 18 million Americans between 18 and 34 who (often quite rationally) forgo health insurance to buy it. This will create a huge new pool of customers who rarely get sick but will be paying premiums every month. And those premiums will subsidize nirvana health insurance for older folks.

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202 comments

albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:35:12am

advancing backwards...let's be honest here

MrSilverDragon Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:36:27am

One step forward, a trillion leaps back.

Kragar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:36:32am

HOPE AND CHANGE!

CIA Reject Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:37:22am

There will be only one way to make this work: Impose an individual mandate. Force the 18 million Americans between 18 and 34 who (often quite rationally) forgo health insurance to buy it. This will create a huge new pool of customers who rarely get sick but will be paying premiums every month. And those premiums will subsidize nirvana health insurance for older folks.

Heh, privatize medicare through the back door- talk about your unintended consequences!

LGoPs Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:37:25am

Damn, I stepped in some drcordell back there...
/

Shug Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:37:35am

2008 Hope Change
2009 Hold Position
2010 retreat
2011 Circle the MSM wagons. Reinvent his resume
2012 Hail Mary
2013 retire

J.D. Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:37:38am

...Though it must be admitted that the White House itself added to the farcical nature of its frantic and futile cost-cutting when budget director Peter Orszag held a three-hour brainstorming session with Senate Finance Committee aides trying to find ways to save. "At one point," reports the Wall Street Journal, "they flipped through the tax code, looking for ideas." Looking for ideas? Months into the president's health-care drive and just days before his deadline for Congress to pass real legislation? You gonna give this gang the power to remake one-sixth of the U.S. economy? ...

I hope and pray not.

Kragar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:38:01am

Just remember, there will be no new tax on the middle class. They'll just make everything cost more and force you to buy shit you don't need so they can get their cut off the back end.

CIA Reject Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:38:15am

re: #6 Shug

2008 Hope Change
2009 Hold Position
2010 retreat
2011 Circle the MSM wagons. Reinvent his resume
2012 Hail Mary
2013 retire

G*d willing!

Shug Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:38:34am

structural reforms dribble out of Congress

Try Flomax

;)

[deleted] Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:38:43am

quickslow87 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:38:47am

Luap Nor!

Creeping Eruption Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:39:23am

re: #4 CIA Reject

Heh, privatize medicare through the back door- talk about your unintended consequences!

Using the whole fist doc?

Kragar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:39:30am

re: #11 buzzsawmonkey

It is instructive to listen closely to the news coverage--particularly NPR, which is completely in the bag for everything Obama--and realize that sometimes they are talking about health care, and other times talking about health insurance.

These two things are not the same, but the news coverage often uses these terms interchangeably--with the result that one is never quite sure what is actually being talked about.

PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE AGENDA BEHIND THE CURTAIN!

Kragar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:40:18am

re: #13 Creeping Eruption

Using the whole fist doc?

Mooon River...

CIA Reject Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:40:19am

re: #13 Creeping Eruption

Using the whole fist doc?

LOL!

/"Ring hell - that's my wristwatch!"

KenJen Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:40:37am

A new Ponzi scheme. Just like Social Security. Great.

CIA Reject Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:41:06am

re: #17 KenJen

A new Ponzi scheme. Just like Social Security. Great.

They'll parole Madoff to run it...

experiencedtraveller Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:41:12am

If there is a government "option", every private business in the USA will immediately dump their private health insurance coverage.

Honorary Yooper Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:41:16am

The liberal Dems aren't gonna like this.

Liberal Dems threaten health care revolt

After months of marching in line as senior Democrats worked with the White House to develop health care legislation, liberal members of Congress from solidly Democratic districts are threatening a revolt that could doom President Barack Obama’s bid to sign a major health care bill this year.

In the House, liberals are furious at their leaders for striking a deal with conservative Democrats that would weaken the proposal to create a new government insurance program, a dream long cherished on the left.

On Thursday, 53 of them sent a letter to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., warning they would vote against any bill that contains the deal, a move that would assuredly sink any Democratic bill.

“We have compromised and we can compromise no more,” an angry Rep. Lynn Woolsey, D-Calif., said at a news conference outside the Capitol.

Meanwhile in the Senate, a growing number of Democrats were taking aim at a second effort by centrist Democrats to develop health care legislation that could attract Republican support, in part by eliminating a government plan entirely.

The centrist effort, led by Senate Finance Committee chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont., limped along Thursday amid growing complaints from Republicans and Democrats alike.

But the rising tide of liberal anger sent the White House scrambling, with Obama calling several left-leaning lawmakers to reassure them before they leave town for their August break.

Sounds like this proposal could go the way of HillaryCare in the 1990s.

Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:41:35am

Hey Doc, my eye hurts when I drink coffee.
Doc: Take the spoon out of the cup.

SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:41:45am

re: #5 LGoPs

Damn, I stepped in some drcordell back there...
/

Hey, I forgot to tell you. You won the prize on the last thread.
I won MJ's nose on the E-bay auction, I just need an address to send it to.

Kragar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:41:51am

re: #18 CIA Reject

They'll parole Madoff to run it...

Can't they name him Czar from prison?

JohnnyReb Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:41:51am

re: #11 buzzsawmonkey

It is instructive to listen closely to the news coverage--particularly NPR, which is completely in the bag for everything Obama--and realize that sometimes they are talking about health care, and other times talking about health insurance.

These two things are not the same, but the news coverage often uses these terms interchangeably--with the result that one is never quite sure what is actually being talked about.

Depends on which audience they think they are talking to, Obama does it alot also. Sort of like how Global Warming has morphed into Global Climate change depending upon the audience.

VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:41:54am

"Nirvana. But wouldn’t this bankrupt the insurance companies? Of course it would. There will be only one way to make this work: Impose an individual mandate. Force the 18 million Americans between 18 and 34 who (often quite rationally) forgo health insurance to buy it. This will create a huge new pool of customers who rarely get sick but will be paying premiums every month. And those premiums will subsidize nirvana health insurance for older folks."

I wonder if the young Obama voters will understand that they are going to be used to prop up his failed ideas? The young are typically healthy and may forgo insurance. This could mean big dollars for them.
Hope! Change!

reine.de.tout Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:42:02am

re: #11 buzzsawmonkey

It is instructive to listen closely to the news coverage--particularly NPR, which is completely in the bag for everything Obama--and realize that sometimes they are talking about health care, and other times talking about health insurance.

These two things are not the same, but the news coverage often uses these terms interchangeably--with the result that one is never quite sure what is actually being talked about.

I'm not sure it's ever been about health care. We do not have the same horror stories here that we hear coming from the UK and Canada, about people travelling to other countries for care they can't get at home, etc.

It's always been about paying for health care, which is the "insurance" part of it.

SteveC Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:42:07am

re: #5 LGoPs

Damn, I stepped in some drcordell back there...
/

*Passes LPoPs a Hazmat disposal bag*

Jack Burton Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:42:27am

re: #8 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Just remember, there will be no new tax on the middle class. They'll just make everything cost more and force you to buy shit you don't need so they can get their cut off the back end.

The Green Economy.

Alberta Oil Peon Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:42:29am

The one thing that would really help make health care more affordable, tort reform to shut down predatory ambulance-chasing lawyers, is, of course, the furthest thing from the Dems' minds.

CIA Reject Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:42:29am

re: #21 Cannadian Club Akbar

Hey Doc, my eye hurts when I drink coffee.
Doc: Take the spoon out of the cup.

...that'll be $200...

BlueCanuck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:42:32am

I hope the whole "Healthcare Reform" goes down the tubes. Yes your system has problems, which system doesn't? I am sure there are other ways of fixing it then the monstrosity they have cooked up so far.

kansas Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:43:15am

re: #17 KenJen

A new Ponzi scheme. Just like Social Security. Great.

I'm starting to think economics is a Ponzi scheme.

SteveC Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:43:28am

re: #21 Cannadian Club Akbar

Hey Doc, my eye hurts when I drink coffee.
Doc: Take the spoon out of the cup.

Hey Doc, it hurts when I roll my shoulder.
Doc: Then don't roll your shoulder!

CIA Reject Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:43:30am

re: #23 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Can't they name him Czar from prison?

I dunno - has he dodged paying his taxes?

MandyManners Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:43:44am

re: #31 BlueCanuck

You Canadian sweetie!

doppelganglander Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:43:57am

re: #11 buzzsawmonkey

It is instructive to listen closely to the news coverage--particularly NPR, which is completely in the bag for everything Obama--and realize that sometimes they are talking about health care, and other times talking about health insurance.

These two things are not the same, but the news coverage often uses these terms interchangeably--with the result that one is never quite sure what is actually being talked about.

You have hit on precisely the thing that infuriates me about the Democrat talking points. By law, no one goes without health care in this country - if you are sick enough, any emergency room is required to treat you.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:44:07am

re: #11 buzzsawmonkey

Buzz? About the Talmud from the last thread? Reference? (or did I miss it)

[deleted] Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:44:11am

BlueCanuck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:44:23am

re: #35 MandyManners

You Canadian sweetie!

*blush* Why thank you ma'am. Just trying to do my part.

pink freud Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:44:26am

re: #35 MandyManners

You Canadian sweetie!

Seconded.

J.D. Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:44:35am

...Patient-as-person will be a lost concept under the new health-care plan, where treatments will be based not upon individual patient needs, but upon what’s best for everyone. So cancer drugs for seniors might take second place to jungle gyms and farmers’ markets—so-called preventive care—which are covered under both the House and Senate versions of the health bill...

Health Reform and Cancer
The danger is that ObamaCare will stifle medical innovations that could save patients like me.

reine.de.tout Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:44:40am

re: #11 buzzsawmonkey

Buzz - OT -

Is your nic based on this fable?

Honorary Yooper Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:44:49am

re: #35 MandyManners

You Canadian sweetie!

And to think that according to certain "drs", he's considered a Canadian f***.*

*See last thread, about #1200.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:45:06am

re: #21 Cannadian Club Akbar

Hey Doc, my eye hurts when I drink coffee.
Doc: Take the spoon out of the cup.

What do I do for a sprained ankle, Doc?
Limp.

[deleted] Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:45:27am

chedgeman Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:45:43am

re: #6 Shug

Hurt me once, shame on you; hurt me twice - shame on me.

Unakite Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:46:00am

Government Suspends 'Clunkers' Program

I like this quote from a car salesman:

"If they can't administer program like this, I'd be concerned about health insurance."

MandyManners Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:46:12am

re: #43 Honorary Yooper

And to think that according to certain "drs", he's considered a Canadian f***.*

*See last thread, about #1200.

Check out the Botton 10.

Jetpilot1101 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:46:16am

Mechanic walks into a doctors office and ask the doctor: "you know, work on your Mercedes as much as you work on me but I get paid $10 an hour and you charge $150. Why the big difference". Doctor looks at the mechanic and says: "can you work on the car while the engine is running?"

Dianna Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:46:18am

The hysterical thing about this is that I know a woman who will firmly inform me that older people are poor and need this help.

My own mother may be poor - but most of her peers are not.

MrSilverDragon Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:46:18am

re: #33 SteveC

Hey Doc, it hurts when I roll my shoulder.
Doc: Then don't roll your shoulder!

A new doctor had arrived in town. He could cure anything and
anybody. Everyone was amazed with what he could do -
everyone except for Mr. Thompson, the town skeptic.

Grumpy old Mr. Thompson went to visit this ‘miracle doctor’
to prove that he wasn’t anybody special. When it was time
for his appointment he told the doctor, “Hey, doc, I’ve lost
my sense of taste. I can’t taste nothin’, so what are ya
goin’ to do?”

The doctor scratched his head and mumbled to himself a
little, then told Mr. Thompson, “What you need is jar number
47.”

So the doctor brought the jar out, opened it, and told Mr.
Thompson to taste it. He tasted it and immediately spit it
out, “This is gross!” he yelled. “Looks like I just restored
your sense of taste Mr. Thompson,” said the doctor. So Mr.
Thompson went home…. very mad.

One month later, Mr. Thompson decides to go back to the
doctor and try once again to expose him as a fake, by
complaining of a new problem. “Doc,” he started, “I can’t
remember anything!” Thinking he had the doctor stumped now,
he waited as the doctor scratched his head, mumbled to
himself a little, and told Mr. Thompson, “What you need is
jar number 47, it’s……”

But before the doctor could finish his sentence, Mr.
Thompson was cured and fled the room!

wahabicorridor Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:47:12am

re: #26 reine.de.tout

I'm not sure it's ever been about health care. We do not have the same horror stories here that we hear coming from the UK and Canada, about people travelling to other countries for care they can't get at home, etc.

Oh we have our horror stories. Remember that woman in Oregon w/cancer? Wouldn't pay for her drugs - but would pay for assisted suicide.

reine.de.tout Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:47:25am

re: #38 buzzsawmonkey

Some of the news stories--and some of the Congresscreature utterances--have been about "care," others about "insurance." The two have been used so interchangeably I am not sure if the people using them even know what they are talking about any more.

They don't.
And neither does most of the public.
Health "care" has a nice unselfish ring to it.
Health care payment for everybody sounds more like the theft it is.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:47:38am

re: #45 buzzsawmonkey

(in my best Oliver Twist voice)

"Bless you, sir."

[deleted] Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:47:56am

reine.de.tout Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:48:16am

re: #52 wahabicorridor

Oh we have our horror stories. Remember that woman in Oregon w/cancer? Wouldn't pay for her drugs - but would pay for assisted suicide.

geez.
Yes, I recall that.
Was it a private insurance company that refused her treatment?

Honorary Yooper Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:48:40am

re: #47 Unakite

Government Suspends 'Clunkers' Program

I like this quote from a car salesman:

"If they can't administer program like this, I'd be concerned about health insurance."

It gets worse from there. Now the dealers are concerned that they might not get the money from the Cash for Clunkers program.

Dealers fear they'll be left with clunkers tab

And so they're looking into adding $2 billions (yes, I said billion with a "b") to the program.

Emergency bill could add $2B in 'Clunkers' funds

We'll see what happens.

SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:49:20am

re: #52 wahabicorridor

Oh we have our horror stories. Remember that woman in Oregon w/cancer? Wouldn't pay for her drugs - but would pay for assisted suicide.

Sickening.

Jetpilot1101 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:49:24am

re: #56 reine.de.tout

geez.
Yes, I recall that.
Was it a private insurance company that refused her treatment?

Id be willing to bet that ObamaCare would pony up the dough for a double dose of Ketamine.

Leonidas Hoplite Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:49:32am

re: #30 CIA Reject

...that'll be $200...

$50 for the Dr.
$150 for malpractice insurance to payoff Silky and his fellow vultures.

reine.de.tout Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:49:33am

re: #55 buzzsawmonkey

I note that the "fable" dates from 1894; it may be the source of the catchphrase, "don't monkey with the buzzsaw," that was common in the first quarter of the 20th century.

I'd never seen the fable you linked to before, but have been familiar with the catchphrase for many years.

ack!
yes, sorry, I did not mean to say you were that old.
I was not familiar with the catchphrase and googled it and that's what I found.

kansas Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:49:47am

re: #33 SteveC

Hey Doc, it hurts when I roll my shoulder.
Doc: Then don't roll your shoulder!

That's funny, but it's kind of a metaphor for how some idiots abuse the health care system. Wonder what diagnosis the doc used for that visit so some insurance company could get gigged? Moronic convergence?

SteveC Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:49:50am

re: #31 BlueCanuck

I hope the whole "Healthcare Reform" goes down the tubes. Yes your system has problems, which system doesn't? I am sure there are other ways of fixing it then the monstrosity they have cooked up so far.

Despite when the numbskulls in Washington keep saying, American Healthcare is not broken. We do have many problems with our payment system, but the actual science/skill/technology is terrific. And I always offer myself as an example: I was born with a Congenital Heart Defect and surgery has saved my life. Congenital Heart Surgery began with the Blalock-Taussig Procedure on November 29, 1944. If you were born on that day, you aren't 65 years old yet.

Shug Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:49:55am

Wasn't Senator Stabenow's husband busted in a Cash for ~~Clunkers~~ Hummers sting?

/ ducks to avoid the incoming * ***WHACK***

reine.de.tout Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:50:06am

re: #57 Honorary Yooper

It gets worse from there. Now the dealers are concerned that they might not get the money from the Cash for Clunkers program.

Dealers fear they'll be left with clunkers tab

And so they're looking into adding $2 billions (yes, I said billion with a "b") to the program.

Emergency bill could add $2B in 'Clunkers' funds

We'll see what happens.

Where are they getting the $2B

Kragar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:50:44am

re: #55 buzzsawmonkey

I note that the "fable" dates from 1894; it may be the source of the catchphrase, "don't monkey with the buzzsaw," that was common in the first quarter of the 20th century.

I'd never seen the fable you linked to before, but have been familiar with the catchphrase for many years.

And I thought it had something to do with a monkey armed with a buzzsaw, which quite frankly would scare the piss out of me.

The only thing scarier is my idea for genetically mixing piranha and chihuahua and teaching them to operate in packs of 100 or more.

Charpete67 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:50:44am

re: #65 reine.de.tout

Where are they getting the $2B

republicans

Jetpilot1101 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:50:52am

re: #65 reine.de.tout

Where are they getting the $2B

Fire up the printing presses and bust out the fine ink.

SteveC Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:50:55am

re: #38 buzzsawmonkey

Some of the news stories--and some of the Congresscreature utterances--have been about "care," others about "insurance." The two have been used so interchangeably I am not sure if the people using them even know what they are talking about any more.

Bingo! They are different issues!

Shug Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:50:57am

re: #60 Leonidas Hoplite

~~50$~~ $8 for the Dr.
$150 for malpractice insurance to payoff Silky and his fellow vultures.

/ medicaid

CIA Reject Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:51:03am

re: #60 Leonidas Hoplite

$50 for the Dr.
$150 for malpractice insurance to payoff Silky and his fellow vultures.

Exactly! The reason why health care is so expensive these days is because doctors no longer treat patients- they treat potential plaintiffs.

pat Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:51:14am

Krauthammer failed to mention the new Pelosi rant: The Evil Insurance Companies. The new meme. But one that wil cost the Obama administraton support. I wonder just ho many in the medical insurance will lose their jobs?

Mostly sane, most of the time. Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:51:18am

I think I saw myself in Krauthammer's words.

VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:51:23am

re: #65 reine.de.tout

Where are they getting the $2B

Check your wallet.

Kragar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:51:49am

re: #65 reine.de.tout

Where are they getting the $2B

/reaching for reine's wallet

JohnnyReb Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:51:53am

re: #65 reine.de.tout

Where are they getting the $2B

Left over stimulus program money. There is nearly $500 billion that isn't ready to pay out yet. They are saving that for election year antics.

LGoPs Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:52:05am

re: #22 SasquatchOnSteroids

Hey, I forgot to tell you. You won the prize on the last thread.
I won MJ's nose on the E-bay auction, I just need an address to send it to.

ROTFLMAO...
I'll donate MJ's nose to the SasquatchOnSteroids MJ Memorial Library...
:)

CommonCents Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:52:11am

But by year's end he will emerge with something he can call health-care reform. The Democrats in Congress will pass it because they must. Otherwise, they'll have slain their own savior in his first year in office.

You could say that the crap they've already done, with the one's blessing, has already slain their own savior. Limitless spending, limitless lying, limitless arrogance. I've been sick of this lot since 2006.

MrSilverDragon Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:52:13am

re: #74 VioletTiger

Check your wallet.

Well, they aren't getting it out of my wallet. It's empty. In fact, it's collapsing into negative space as we speak.

reine.de.tout Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:52:34am

re: #74 VioletTiger

Check your wallet.

re: #75 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

/reaching for reine's wallet

It's already empty

Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:52:41am

re: #62 kansas

That's funny, but it's kind of a metaphor for how some idiots abuse the health care system. Wonder what diagnosis the doc used for that visit so some insurance company could get gigged? Moronic convergence?

[Link: www.wgrz.com...]

SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:52:49am

Obamacare :

Nurse: Doctor, the man you've just treated collapsed on the front step what should I do?
Doctor: Turn him around so it looks like he was just arriving!

pre-Boomer Marine brat Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:52:52am

C'mon you 18-to-34-year-old Lizards, pony up!
Us old farts want a free lunch!

/ < --- *wondering if that'll protect me*

Kragar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:52:53am

re: #80 reine.de.tout

It's already empty

BACK TO THE MINES WITH YOU!

Honorary Yooper Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:53:18am

re: #48 MandyManners

Check out the Botton 10.

Holy shit! drcordell owns all 10 of the bottom 10 comments!

Has this ever happened before, where one trol..er..commentor has had all 10 of the bottom 10 positions?

NJDhockeyfan Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:53:23am

re: #65 reine.de.tout

Where are they getting the $2B

Just print more. It's Obama economics.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:53:40am

re: #83 pre-Boomer Marine brat

C'mon you 18-to-34-year-old Lizards, pony up!
Us old farts want a free lunch!

/ < --- *wondering if that'll protect me*

I had insurance when I was that age. I also gave birth to five kids during those year, so it was a good thing I had it.

apachegunner Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:53:42am

the car crap thing is not being suspended it is operating and will continue to do so. it is sooo great for the enviornment she said.

VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:53:43am

Hey, looks like drcordell wrapped up the bottom ten.
heh

Mostly sane, most of the time. Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:54:09am

Romney interview on health care:

[Link: www.humanevents.com...]

JohnnyReb Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:54:14am

re: #85 Honorary Yooper

Holy shit! drcordell owns all 10 of the bottom 10 comments!

Has this ever happened before, where one trol..er..commentor has had all 10 of the bottom 10 positions?

Wow and I thought I was being mean when I down dinged his F bomb rant earlier.

[deleted] Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:54:32am

Unakite Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:54:34am

re: #65 reine.de.tout

Where are they getting the $2B

From you (and me, and everyone else) :)

Russkilitlover Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:54:41am

re: #11 buzzsawmonkey

It is instructive to listen closely to the news coverage--particularly NPR, which is completely in the bag for everything Obama--and realize that sometimes they are talking about health care, and other times talking about health insurance.

These two things are not the same, but the news coverage often uses these terms interchangeably--with the result that one is never quite sure what is actually being talked about.

It helps to have Pelosi demonizing insurance companies. She's the lead peasant of the torch mob.

redstateredneck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:54:47am

re: #53 reine.de.tout

They don't.
And neither does most of the public.
Health "care" has a nice unselfish ring to it.
Health care payment for everybody sounds more like the theft it is.

I have drivers who could have group insurance for $16.50 a week single coverage and turn it down. Unbelievable.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:54:51am

re: #85 Honorary Yooper

Several times, IIRC.

unrealizedviewpoint Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:54:52am

Paul Krugman polls Canadian's

Youtube Video

BlueCanuck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:56:23am

re: #97 unrealizedviewpoint

Going to have to check that out at home. That's the one where it went in the opposite direction he wanted right?

doppelganglander Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:56:57am

Since we're talking about health care/insurance, I'd like to take a moment to shamelessly ask for donations to breast cancer research. As many of you know, I lost my sister to breast cancer in May and I am walking the Breast Cancer 3 Day in October. Please click my avatar or email me for information about how you can help. Maybe someday this will be one less disease for which the government will be rationing care.

100

Leonidas Hoplite Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:57:02am

re: #95 redstateredneck

I have drivers who could have group insurance for $16.50 a week single coverage and turn it down. Unbelievable.

Use it for smokes?

101

Honorary Yooper Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:57:03am

re: #96 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Several times, IIRC.

Trying to remember who was the last one.

102

SteveC Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:57:10am

re: #85 Honorary Yooper

Holy shit! drcordell owns all 10 of the bottom 10 comments!

Has this ever happened before, where one trol..er..commentor has had all 10 of the bottom 10 positions?

SpaceJeebus had 9 of 10 once. Me, I would have settled for 7 of 9

103

MandyManners Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:57:34am

re: #85 Honorary Yooper

Holy shit! drcordell owns all 10 of the bottom 10 comments!

Has this ever happened before, where one trol..er..commentor has had all 10 of the bottom 10 positions?

I think so but I cannot recall the nic.

104

BlueCanuck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:57:50am

re: #85 Honorary Yooper

Doesn't surprise me one bit. He was on a cantankerous roll yesterday in the Beer O'clock thread. Claimed that Officer Crowley violated Professor Gates constitutional rights.

/the skull is thick on that one.

105

LGoPs Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:58:04am

re: #94 Russkilitlover

It helps to have Pelosi demonizing insurance companies. She's the lead peasant of the torch mob.

I think that The Pelosi represents America's new aristocracy - The Democratic Party. It is this aristocracy that is attacking the rest of us.
Quite the irony.

106

SteveC Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:58:06am

re: #86 NJDhockeyfan

Just print more. It's Obama economics.

Frito-Lay Economics: "Spend all you want, we'll make more!"

107

doppelganglander Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:59:00am

re: #100 Leonidas Hoplite

Use it for smokes?

I don't think you can buy a carton of cigarettes for that anymore. You could get an 18-pack of Bud, probably.

108

Kragar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:59:01am

re: #106 SteveC

Frito-Lay Economics: "Spend all you want, we'll make more!"

We make money the old fashioned way, in our basement.

109

Dianna Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:59:06am

re: #91 JohnnyReb

Wow and I thought I was being mean when I down dinged his F bomb rant earlier.

I'm sorry I missed it. What set him off?

110

Mostly sane, most of the time. Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:59:21am

re: #94 Russkilitlover

It helps to have Pelosi demonizing insurance companies. She's the lead peasant of the torch mob.

The lead peasant in Armani?

Nope, sorry. Not buying it. Not even looking at the ads, Madame Speaker.

111

Kragar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:59:29am

re: #109 Dianna

I'm sorry I missed it. What set him off?

My guess? Puberty.

112

Sharmuta Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:59:38am

Until there is serious tort reform proposed then healthcare will continue to be an issue. T.R. is the 800 pound gorilla in the room. When this aspect get discussed by Congress and the President- then we'll know they're serious. Until then, this is a dog and pony show.

113

Honorary Yooper Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:59:50am

re: #102 SteveC

SpaceJeebus had 9 of 10 once. Me, I would have settled for 7 of 9

At least Space Jesus has some redeeming qualities, and manages some positive comments now and then. This "drcordell" is just a troll.

114

MrSilverDragon Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:59:56am

re: #107 doppelganglander

I don't think you can buy a carton of cigarettes for that anymore. You could get an 18-pack of Bud, probably.

Maybe a case of 24 Mickey's Big Mouth, too.

115

redstateredneck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:59:57am

re: #100 Leonidas Hoplite

Use it for smokes?

Probably.

116

BlueCanuck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:00:01am

re: #109 Dianna

I'm sorry I missed it. What set him off?

Well he came in cranky, and I asked him what his previous LGF handle was. Went down hill from there.

117

MandyManners Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:00:04am

re: #109 Dianna

I'm sorry I missed it. What set him off?

It's at the top of the Bottom 10.

118

opnion Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:00:14am

Obama is missing the boat here. He should make Michelle the Health Czar.
She could dump the uninsured patients like she did for the Uof C Medical Center, only this time just dump them on Canada. Problem solved!

119

Charpete67 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:00:15am

re: #109 Dianna

I'm sorry I missed it. What set him off?

facts and reason

120

pre-Boomer Marine brat Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:00:17am

*looking up, waving at DrC*

/just doing my part

121

ShanghaiEd Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:00:30am

Krauthammer says:

This will create a huge new pool of customers who rarely get sick but will be paying premiums every month. And those premiums will subsidize nirvana health insurance for older folks.

Well, yeah. Isn't that how insurance works? The people who rarely get sick subsidize the people who do get sick.

Homeowner's insurance? The people whose houses don't burn down subsidize the people whose houses do burn down.

I'm sorry, but Obama didn't invent this stuff.

122

Honorary Yooper Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:00:34am

re: #109 Dianna

I'm sorry I missed it. What set him off?

BlueCanuck accused him of being a sock puppet. Said he sounded familar.

123

Leonidas Hoplite Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:00:39am

re: #68 Jetpilot1101

Fire up the printing presses and bust out the fine ink.

How long before our money only has printing on one side, like Weimar? Can you imagine the stroke of genius someone thought they had? "Hey, if we only print on one side we can print twice as much!"

124

flyovercountry Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:00:53am

re: #4 CIA Reject

Medicare and Medicaid are two different animals. Medicare is a government run insurance program where some very basic services are covered by Uncle Sam. Suplimental coverage is offered by private insurers. For example, part A, is Government coverage for major medical. Part B is a Government run supliment which covers some outpatient and wellcare stuff which can be purchased by the participant. Part D is the privately run prescription plans which is also purchased. Parts C through j offer differing services run by private insurers, also purchased by participants. This program is not bankrupt, yet. Medicaid is basically Welfare. This is government subsidy for indegent folks. Several states, including Ohio, have already begun to privatize Medicaid. They learned years ago, that the private insurance companies do a much better job of managing than the government. The scary thing is, Medicare which is not free for anyone in any plan other than A, is going to go bankrupt. Most of it is privatized, and the government can't even manage its miniscule minority portion. Medicaid is simply a giant drain, which we do because we are a moral society.

125

LGoPs Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:00:53am

re: #85 Honorary Yooper

Holy shit! drcordell owns all 10 of the bottom 10 comments!

Has this ever happened before, where one trol..er..commentor has had all 10 of the bottom 10 positions?

That asshat deserves to be downdinged on sight.

126

SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:01:23am

re: #105 LGoPs

I think that The Pelosi represents America's new aristocracy - The Democratic Party. It is this aristocracy that is attacking the rest of us.
Quite the irony.

Heard her called Pelokio the other day. Don't remember who said it, but it's a fitting nic.

127

Shug Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:01:36am

Obama has changed the Bully pulpit to the bullshit pulpit.

every day another infomercial. Gawwd.
overload!

128

[deleted] Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:01:43am

129

BlueCanuck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:01:54am

re: #118 opnion

Obama is missing the boat here. He should make Michelle the Health Czar.
She could dump the uninsured patients like she did for the Uof C Medical Center, only this time just dump them on Canada. Problem solved!

Please no, our waiting lists are too long as it is. That would practically be a death sentence for some people.

130

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:01:57am

re: #112 Sharmuta

Sharmuta?

Saw this earlier and thought of you.

You know [finger] why.

131

Dianna Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:02:09am

re: #117 MandyManners

It's at the top of the Bottom 10.

I shall go have a look.

132

[deleted] Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:02:12am

133

MandyManners Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:02:45am

re: #94 Russkilitlover

It helps to have Pelosi demonizing insurance companies. She's the lead peasant of the torch mob.

I can see Cloris Leachman playing her.

134

Shug Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:02:59am

re: #122 Honorary Yooper

BlueCanuck accused him of being a sock puppet. Said he sounded familar.

He is very familiar : just like about every antisocial, angry, rude troll that you see come and go...

135

jamgarr Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:03:11am

re: #108 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

We make money the old fashioned way, in our basement.

Fifty Dollar bill! Fifty Dollar bill!

136

wahabicorridor Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:03:18am

re: #56 reine.de.tout

geez.
Yes, I recall that.
Was it a private insurance company that refused her treatment?

No. It was the state of Oregon.

137

doppelganglander Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:03:21am

re: #133 MandyManners

I can see Cloris Leachman playing her.

Frau Blucher [whinney]!

138

CIA Reject Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:03:28am

re: #127 Shug

Obama has changed the Bully pulpit to the bullshit pulpit.

every day another infomercial. Gawwd.
overload!

Billy Mays is dead and Obama is doing infomercials, there's no justice in the world I tell 'ya!

139

SteveC Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:03:40am

re: #127 Shug

Obama has changed the Bully pulpit to the bullshit pulpit.

every day another infomercial. Gawwd.
overload!

Keep it coming! Every time he catches his breath and tries again, all he's doing is breaking out a new shovel.

140

JohnnyReb Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:03:41am

re: #121 ShanghaiEd

Krauthammer says:

Well, yeah. Isn't that how insurance works? The people who rarely get sick subsidize the people who do get sick.

Homeowner's insurance? The people whose houses don't burn down subsidize the people whose houses do burn down.

I'm sorry, but Obama didn't invent this stuff.

I agree with most of it except the Nirvana care for the elderly. With corruption, fraud and outright waste that is inherent in any government program, there will not be any money for health care left over for the elderly.

141

Jack Burton Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:03:54am

re: #112 Sharmuta

Until there is serious tort reform proposed then healthcare will continue to be an issue. T.R. is the 800 pound gorilla in the room. When this aspect get discussed by Congress and the President- then we'll know they're serious. Until then, this is a dog and pony show.

A bunch of scumbag lawyers in Congress who are constantly lobbied by an even larger group of scumbag lawyers will be a immovable object when it comes to Tort Reform.

142

Leonidas Hoplite Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:04:15am

re: #107 doppelganglander

I don't think you can buy a carton of cigarettes for that anymore. You could get an 18-pack of Bud, probably.

Or just two beers at Yankee Stadium...

143

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:04:15am

re: #133 MandyManners

I can see Cloris Leachman playing her.

Nurse Diesel.

144

MandyManners Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:04:29am

re: #132 buzzsawmonkey

You'll love his nuts! They have a majority in Congress.

SLAP CHOP!

145

Kragar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:04:30am

re: #135 jamgarr

Fifty Dollar bill! Fifty Dollar bill!

Rocky road?

146

Leonidas Hoplite Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:04:36am

re: #125 LGoPs

That asshat deserves to be downdinged on sight.

Kinda like spacejesus?

147

Mostly sane, most of the time. Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:05:00am

My younger sister, a doctor's wife, was saying that the doctors in her husband's practice have basically said that if that mega-surtax is put in place, they'll just stop working at the point it would kick in. Why work if you are going to be taxed at 80%?

Of course, there may be patients who would like it if they continued to work, but that's Obama's policies for you.

(For the record, my husband and I couldn't reach the surtax on stilts.)

148

Vicious Babushka Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:05:12am

re: #133 MandyManners

I can see Cloris Leachman playing her.

Who played Frau Farbissener in the "Austin Powers" movies?

149

Sharmuta Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:05:36am

re: #130 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Thanks, Bastard. [finger]

150

opnion Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:05:39am

re: #129 BlueCanuck

Please no, our waiting lists are too long as it is. That would practically be a death sentence for some people.

It's for the greater good. Individuality must be eliminated, resistance is futile. '
Chant "Oooobama, Oooobama."

151

Mostly sane, most of the time. Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:05:57am

re: #136 wahabicorridor

No. It was the state of Oregon.

But the government loves you. The government will take care of you and that nasty old insurance company will just put you on the corner with a tin can and a sign to beg.

152

Kragar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:06:04am

re: #148 Alouette

Who played Frau Farbissener in the "Austin Powers" movies?

Mindy Sterling

153

Vicious Babushka Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:06:11am

re: #146 Leonidas Hoplite

Kinda like spacejesus?

Vistyoizel occasionally came up with a funny. This guy is all seething, all the time.

154

LGoPs Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:06:33am

re: #112 Sharmuta

Until there is serious tort reform proposed then healthcare will continue to be an issue. T.R. is the 800 pound gorilla in the room. When this aspect get discussed by Congress and the President- then we'll know they're serious. Until then, this is a dog and pony show.

It won't. I don't know the actual percentage but Congress is predominantly lawyers. And if I'm not mistaken a much higher percentage are Democrats rather than Republicans.
TR will never happen unless we throw all the bastards out.

155

_RememberTonyC Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:06:45am

The 'Hammer comes down again. He is the best. If what Krauthammer predicts eventually comes true, I don't think it is the end of the world. Call me overly cautious, but even when I was beginning my career in my early 20s, I have always felt health insurance was important to have. So I see this possible mandate for younger Americans to own insurance as something I would have done anyway. And while I agree with those that see such a mandate as heavy handed and even unfair, I think younger (soon to be insured) Americans who might not have taken the insurance should USE it for routine physicals and other preventive measures so that it is not simply a transfer of wealth to older Americans. It may also help them stay on top of health issues like high cholesterol and high blood pressure that will improve the quality of their health when they do get a bit older.

156

calcajun Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:06:47am

This is akin to Heller's Milo Minderbinder making the squadron eat the Egyptian cotton and giving them shares of M&M Enterprises in exchange for their life vests and parachutes.

or...

"But I don't want to go on the cart (buy health insurance)"

"Oh, don't be such a baby."

157

calcajun Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:07:06am

re: #148 Alouette

Who played Frau Farbissener in the "Austin Powers" movies?

Mindy Sterling

158

jamgarr Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:07:15am

re: #145 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rocky road?

Ruth Ruth Baby Ruth

159

KenJen Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:07:30am

re: #6 Shug

2008 Hope Change
2009 Hold Position
2010 retreat
2011 Circle the MSM wagons. Reinvent his resume
2012 Hail Mary
2013 retire

Logged on just to upding that one. Now back to work.

160

SteveC Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:07:39am

Kinda OT but not quite: H1N1 Vaccination Recommendations are out.

CDC information on H1N1 Vaccination

Bad News: Looks like that for a while, there are going to be more needing vaccine than there is vaccine to give.

Good News: You won't have to shove Jenny McCarthy out of the way.

161

BlueCanuck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:07:43am

re: #150 opnion

It's for the greater good. Individuality must be eliminated, resistance is futile. '
Chant "Oooobama, Oooobama."

Nope, won't work. I have been innoculated against that type of meme since Trudeaumania. :)

162

Jack Burton Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:07:46am

re: #145 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rocky road?

[Link: chunkaddressescongress.ytmnd.com...]

163

unrealizedviewpoint Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:07:55am

re: #121 ShanghaiEd

Krauthammer says:

Well, yeah. Isn't that how insurance works? The people who rarely get sick subsidize the people who do get sick.

Homeowner's insurance? The people whose houses don't burn down subsidize the people whose houses do burn down.

I'm sorry, but Obama didn't invent this stuff.

The purchasing of homeowners insurance is not a government mandate. Obama wants to invent the mandate.

164

calcajun Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:08:26am

re: #125 LGoPs

He's young. Give him time to turn into something really dangerous.//

165

MandyManners Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:08:34am

Check out the bad dr's avatar. It has a link to talkingpointsmemo.

166

calcajun Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:09:16am

re: #159 KenJen

Announce in 2011 that he always meant to be a one-term President-- and have the MSM reinvent the past.

167

SteveC Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:09:16am

re: #147 EmmmieG

My younger sister, a doctor's wife, was saying that the doctors in her husband's practice have basically said that if that mega-surtax is put in place, they'll just stop working at the point it would kick in. Why work if you are going to be taxed at 80%?

Of course, there may be patients who would like it if they continued to work, but that's Obama's policies for you.

(For the record, my husband and I couldn't reach the surtax on stilts.)

Concierge healthcare. No Medicare/Medicaid accepted, Coming soon to an MD near you.

168

SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:10:05am

re: #165 MandyManners

Check out the bad dr's avatar. It has a link to talkingpointsmemo.

Nice catch.

169

Jack Burton Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:10:31am

re: #165 MandyManners

Check out the bad dr's avatar. It has a link to talkingpointsmemo.

That screams credibility and non-partisanship...

/need I?

170

Mostly sane, most of the time. Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:10:46am

re: #167 SteveC

Concierge healthcare. No Medicare/Medicaid accepted, Coming soon to an MD near you.

Actually, they're radiologists. I hope nobody in that area needs an X-ray read in the last half of the year.

171

calcajun Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:10:52am

re: #167 SteveC

Concierge healthcare. No Medicare/Medicaid accepted, Coming soon to an MD near you.

It would be like what they have in France. Free healthcare and no Dr.'s.

172

Alberta Oil Peon Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:12:04am

re: #121 ShanghaiEd

Krauthammer says:

Well, yeah. Isn't that how insurance works? The people who rarely get sick subsidize the people who do get sick.

Homeowner's insurance? The people whose houses don't burn down subsidize the people whose houses do burn down.

I'm sorry, but Obama didn't invent this stuff.

But unless you have your house mortgaged, you aren't obliged to have insurance on your home. You can choose to self-insure, if you wish.

What Krauthammer is warning about is the threat of government obliging you to buy insurance, whether you need it or not, so that you pay to to subsidize those who do.

173

SteveC Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:12:26am

re: #171 calcajun

It would be like what they have in France. Free healthcare and no Dr.'s.

Almost have that here now. We have a major shortage of Primary Care doctors.

174

Mostly sane, most of the time. Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:12:26am

re: #171 calcajun

It would be like what they have in France. Free healthcare and no Dr.'s.

I am related to four doctors and two nurses. I would be able to get health care, but I would for sure pay them for it.

175

MrSilverDragon Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:12:39am

re: #126 SasquatchOnSteroids

Heard her called Pelokio the other day. Don't remember who said it, but it's a fitting nic.

I hadn't heard that one yet. Never has then been a more apt nickname for someone.

176

itellu3times Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:12:59am

I find CK has lost his focus.

Compromise? Of course. Not a bulletin.

But another way to avoid bankrupting the insurance companies is simply to fund them with tax dollars, on a capitation basis, same way insurance companies pay doctors.

177

calcajun Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:13:00am

re: #174 EmmmieG

I am related to four doctors and two nurses. I would be able to get health care, but I would for sure pay them for it.

They would make you pay-- at every family gathering.//

178

Flyovercountry Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:13:39am

I hope the opposition theme for the 2010 and the 2012 elections is to reverse the damage. Never before in our nations history has the government relinquished what it has taken. It is time, (way past it in my opinion,) for our elected officials to start. I want to see someone with an actual spine stand up and say, I am going to undo this nonsense. Just a dream, any word yet on the formation of that sanity party.

179

calcajun Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:13:56am

re: #173 SteveC

I know-- I friend of mine's Mrs. is considering giving it as there is no future $ in it if this goes through.

180

calcajun Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:14:12am

bbl

181

debutaunt Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:15:06am

re: #109 Dianna

I'm sorry I missed it. What set him off?

Reality.

182

Van Helsing Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:18:30am

re: #76 JohnnyReb

Left over stimulus program money. There is nearly $500 billion that isn't ready to pay out yet. They are saving that for election year antics.

Yeah, if they insist on spending the money at least it looks like this is actually doing some immediate good.

Of course more people are undoubtedly piling on more debt...

183

Bear Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:18:30am

Morning all. Power back on after a two hour outage.

184

samsgran1948 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:18:57am

re: #31 BlueCanuck

I hope the whole "Healthcare Reform" goes down the tubes.

You and me both, Canuck; you and me both.

185

reine.de.tout Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:24:57am

re: #136 wahabicorridor

No. It was the state of Oregon.

The state of Oregon - in other words, some sort of GOVERMENT INSURANCE?!

186

Ward Cleaver Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:39:14am

My insurance already has an annual out-of-pocket max - $2500 individual, $5000 family. We've hit the $2500 for June every year since 2005, since her IBC diagnosis. We might not hit it this year, though.

187

Rancher Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:52:32am

no preexisting condition requirements

Then it's not really insurance is it? Like getting auto insurance after I've had a wreck and still being covered.

But by year's end he will emerge with something he can call health-care reform. The Democrats in Congress will pass it because they must. Otherwise, they'll have slain their own savior in his first year in office.

This is true but I think Krauthammer's being optimistic that the radicals will fold, they are demanding a government plan. I think the Bluedogs will be the ones to fold on this.

188

mrkwong Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:55:21am

re: #172 Alberta Oil Peon

But unless you have your house mortgaged, you aren't obliged to have insurance on your home. You can choose to self-insure, if you wish.

What Krauthammer is warning about is the threat of government obliging you to buy insurance, whether you need it or not, so that you pay to to subsidize those who do.

Actually, in many places you are obliged to have, for instance, auto liability insurance because of the potential impact (no pun intended, but now that I think about it...) on others.

A case can be made that a twentysomething with no insurance creates an unacceptable risk to everyone else who will be on the hook for his care should he get sick and walk away from the bill (since we haven't quite reconciled ourselves to the notion of pulling the plug when coins stop falling from his pockets.)

I'm quite opposed to much of what the Pelosicrats have on the table, but anyone who's dealt with the current 'system' either as a self-employed/small business owner or having someone with a chronic condition in their family knows that what we've got now works only for unions and large employers.

And it strikes me that there's some truly heinous cost-shifting techniques in the current process - can anyone disprove my belief that the reason that a hospital, for instance, will slap an uninsured patient with a bill for a particular procedure at several times the insurance-reimbursement rate is because that hospital EXPECTS the uninsured patient to walk away from it, or most of it, which then allows the institution to claim that vastly inflated charge as an allowance for a bad debt on their taxes? They get to claim thinner operating margins (good PR), dodge taxes, and every now and then some poor sap actually PAYS one of those bills and screws up their accounting.

189

[deleted] Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:56:13am

190

wahabicorridor Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:00:01am

re: #188 mrkwong

And it strikes me that there's some truly heinous cost-shifting techniques in the current process - can anyone disprove my belief that the reason that a hospital, for instance, will slap an uninsured patient with a bill for a particular procedure at several times the insurance-reimbursement rate is because that hospital EXPECTS the uninsured patient to walk away from it, or most of it, which then allows the institution to claim that vastly inflated charge as an allowance for a bad debt on their taxes? They get to claim thinner operating margins (good PR), dodge taxes, and every now and then some poor sap actually PAYS one of those bills and screws up their accounting.

I don't know about that. I can tell you that about 6 mos after a hospitalization, I got a bill from a hospital billing company for a drug I wasn't sure I had rec'd. Talked to the doc and he said 'Oh, yeah, you got it. How much are they charging you?'

He laughed when I told him. He said it really cost half as much. The billing company the hospital used would pocket the other half. I sent THE HOSPITAL half the amount.

191

mrkwong Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:05:57am

re: #190 wahabicorridor

I don't know about that. I can tell you that about 6 mos after a hospitalization, I got a bill from a hospital billing company for a drug I wasn't sure I had rec'd. Talked to the doc and he said 'Oh, yeah, you got it. How much are they charging you?'

He laughed when I told him. He said it really cost half as much. The billing company the hospital used would pocket the other half. I sent THE HOSPITAL half the amount.

Six years ago I went in for a fairly common test that involves some rather expensive equipment, took about an hour. The 'rack rate' for that procedure was just under ten grand. The insured price through my coverage at the time was $1400, and I had IIRC a $250 annual deductible.

192

kansas Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:11:38am

Somewhere we were talking about how things went south once the Dems took over.
What was it they said, things couldn't get any worse than Bush. GDP looked pretty good until the Dems took over. The once we got Obama, it's look out below. But that's Bush's fault./
Image: gdp.gif

193

MTF Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:17:38am

Tax, tax, tax. Congresspeople are evil.

194

wahabicorridor Fri, Jul 31, 2009 11:23:57am

re: #191 mrkwong

TEN GRAND!

good lord.

195

Mr. Sandman Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:02:29pm

Yeah, real health care reform is extremely difficult to pass, even though a strong public option is solid policy wise, and wouldn't cost that much (repealing the Bush tax cuts for the rich would pretty much cover the cost). There really is such an immense influence from the powerful insurance companies, I would have never guessed the resistance would be this tough from a small, over-powered group of Democrats. I knew it would be hard but didn't know it would be this hard. I mean it's absurd, there's committee after committee it has to pass before it can move anywhere--like a dozen or more opportunities to kill it or water it down to near-death right there. A major part of the problem is the supposed "liberal" media who don't ever question the "honor" and "integrity" of people like Max Baucus, who is very obviously invested in the interest of the insurance companies over the public interest, and for very obvious reasons. And yes, Obama is very disappointing and weak; you really have to strong-arm the resistant Dems, call them to you office, etc., like Lyndon Johnson did to pass Medicare. Over four decades later most reasonable people concede that Medicare is and example of government doing something right, to say the least. (And especially ironic how one of the absurd charges against health care reform with a public option is that it would lead to "euthanasia" for elderly sick patients--when repealing Medicare, which is often what those who make this kind of charge would like to see happen, would indisputably lead to the needless death of literally millions of the elderly).

196

truth stick Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:06:25pm

"There will be only one way to make this work: Impose an individual mandate. Force the 18 million Americans between 18 and 34 who forgo health insurance to buy it."

It doesn't get any more un-american than that

197

Mr. Sandman Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:15:06pm

re: #196 truth stick

There is an auto-insurance mandate for those who own a car. There's nothing "un-American" about that nor about a health-insurance mandate. I would be much more effective though if it were done as part of a more solid overall reform-package.

198

Truth Stick Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:40:56pm

re: #197 Mr. Sandman

There is an auto-insurance mandate for those who own a car. There's nothing "un-American" about that nor about a health-insurance mandate. I would be much more effective though if it were done as part of a more solid overall reform-package.

But no one is forcing you to buy that car, that you then have to insure.

199

Code Red 21 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:02:58pm

All I know is that my doctor, who isn't that old maybe late thirties, told me if anyone, government, tried to tell him how to treat his patients he would quit medicine. I'm sure there are many doctors who feel the same so I guess BO would have to bring in foreign imports.

200

ShanghaiEd Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:24:43pm

re: #198 Truth Stick

But no one is forcing you to buy that car, that you then have to insure.

And nobody is forcing you to inhabit a body, so that you need health care. Right?

I love my country. Whatever happened to the "Love it or leave it!" option? :)

201

FrogMarch Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:13:20pm

Obamacare is a ponzi scheme. Just like Hillarycare.

202

countrygurl Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:31:31pm

re: #199 Code Red 21

All I know is that my doctor, who isn't that old maybe late thirties, told me if anyone, government, tried to tell him how to treat his patients he would quit medicine. .

And do what? and how would he pay his school loans back? This is just talk. They'll keep working -- they have to -- where are they going to go? Canada?

Spy Mode Auto

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