Overnight Open Thread
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If not for the courage of the fearless crew,
the Minnow would be lost.
The Minnow would be lost.
— Gilligan’s Island
1404 comments
3 |
freetoken Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:12:44pm |
re: #1 BignJames
It was found later, in a made for TV movie.
| 6 |
Gus Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:14:07pm |
| 7 |
freetoken Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:14:47pm |
re: #2 BignJames
Since the quoted text was taken out of context, here is the line immediately preceeding the getting-lost part:
The weather started getting rough, the tiny ship was tossed,
| 9 |
BignJames Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:15:35pm |
re: #6 Gus 802
The weather got rough.
C'mon, just admit it was incompetence/negligence on the part of the crew.
| 10 |
itellu3times Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:15:41pm |
It was national cheesecake day, according to the cheesecake factory.
Went to lunch there.
They had something else new, mandated by the state of California - a list of the calories in each menu item.
Great Caesar's Ghost!
| 11 |
calcajun Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:15:47pm |
Funny that. I saw picture of Haley Barbour and Bobby Jindal together the other day and my first thought was "It's Skipper and Gilligan".
| 12 |
Dancing along the light of day Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:15:58pm |
From you tube!
Gilligan's Island theme song.
| 13 |
Pvt Bin Jammin Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:16:07pm |
Hi there lizards. I haven't been here all day but thought I should drop in and say hi. Interesting day, lunch with a commie and dinner with a lizard. At least it wasn't the opposite. I will sleep well.
| 14 |
BignJames Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:16:23pm |
re: #7 freetoken
Since the quoted text was taken out of context, here is the line immediately preceeding the getting-lost part:
What, no marine band radios in 1965?
| 15 |
Gus Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:16:47pm |
re: #9 BignJames
C'mon, just admit it was incompetence/negligence on the part of the crew.
Sue, sue, sue, the crew! //
/Urban America.
/
| 16 |
calcajun Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:16:57pm |
re: #2 BignJames
And how do you get lost on a 3 hour tour?
And what kind of real millionaire goes on a POS like the minnow. Howell could have bought and sold the Skipper three times over.
| 17 |
Dancing along the light of day Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:17:12pm |
re: #13 Pvt Bin Jammin
Hi PBJ!
Hope you are well!
Dinner with a lizard sounds fun!
| 18 |
zombie Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:17:51pm |
If there's one thing I learned from Gilligan's Island, it's that radiation from fallout makes vegetables grow REALLY BIG!
| 19 |
Render Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:18:57pm |
Ginger was nice to look at, but clearly MaryAnne was the fun one.
JUST
SAYIN,
R
| 20 |
Racer X Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:19:11pm |
OK, I can understand why Mr. and Mrs. Howell were on the Minnow, and Mary Ann and Ginger, well OK. But what the heck was the professor doing out there?
Conspiracy.
| 21 |
BignJames Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:19:25pm |
re: #15 Gus 802
Sue, sue, sue, the crew! //
/Urban America.
/
Hey...you might have the makings of a rap song tune rap.
| 22 |
Abu Al-Poopypants Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:19:32pm |
Charles must've forgotten to post this link.
| 23 |
Dancing along the light of day Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:20:00pm |
re: #18 zombie
Um, I was supposed to LEARN things from Gilligan's Island?
GULP...
| 25 |
Gus Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:20:28pm |
re: #21 BignJames
Hey...you might have the makings of a rap
songtunerap.
I had "Kill the Poor" by the Dead Kennedy's playing in my head. ;)
| 26 |
TheMatrix31 Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:20:33pm |
re: #10 itellu3times
It was national cheesecake day, according to the cheesecake factory.
Went to lunch there.
They had something else new, mandated by the state of California - a list of the calories in each menu item.
Great Caesar's Ghost!
My Mom mentioned this but I didn't know what the deal was. I'm a cheesecake whore.
I'm not a fan of the calories-on-the-menu thing.
| 27 |
calcajun Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:20:34pm |
...and what was with all that "Little Buddy" nonsense. Sounds pretty creepy to me.re: #18 zombie
If there's one thing I learned from Gilligan's Island, it's that radiation from fallout makes vegetables grow REALLY BIG!
That and never trust outsiders. Ever damned guest star left them all to twist in the wind.
| 29 |
calcajun Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:21:33pm |
re: #20 Racer X
OK, I can understand why Mr. and Mrs. Howell were on the Minnow, and Mary Ann and Ginger, well OK. But what the heck was the professor doing out there?
Conspiracy.
Russian mole who was being brought back to Moscow. They were going to rendezvous with a trawler.
| 30 |
freetoken Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:21:44pm |
re: #20 Racer X
But what the heck was the professor doing out there?
From the link I posted above, the originally planned lyrics in the pilot had the line:
Two secretaries from the U-S-A,
Sail on the Minnow this lovely day.
A high school teacher is next aboard,
All taking trip that they can not afford.
The "professor" was really a HS teacher... and in the actual show one of the secretaries evidently had the upgrade to movie-star.
| 31 |
BignJames Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:22:18pm |
re: #23 Floral Giraffe
Um, I was supposed to LEARN things from Gilligan's Island?
GULP...
What? You've never suffered a blow to the head that turned you into a radio reciever?...you've been deprived.
| 32 |
Bob Dillon Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:22:28pm |
re: #19 Render
Ginger was nice to look at, but clearly MaryAnne was the fun one.
JUST
SAYIN,
R
MaryAnne was our guest of honor on a cruise to the Bahamas back in ... Oh 98 I think. Nice fun lady.
| 33 |
capitalist piglet Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:23:17pm |
re: #19 Render
Ginger was nice to look at, but clearly MaryAnne was the fun one.
JUST
SAYIN,
R
I'll say. She was arrested last year.
[Link: cbs4denver.com...]
| 34 |
calcajun Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:23:50pm |
re: #32 Bobibutu
MaryAnne was our guest of honor on a cruise to the Bahamas back in ... Oh 98 I think. Nice fun lady.
and now a tweaker, too. So I heard. Shame, that.
| 35 |
Pvt Bin Jammin Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:23:52pm |
re: #32 Bobibutu
All the guys I know really prefer Mary Ann.
| 38 |
BignJames Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:24:37pm |
re: #25 Gus 802
I had "Kill the Poor" by the Dead Kennedy's playing in my head. ;)
Dead Kennedys are soo passe...I want the Drunk Kennedys!
| 39 |
calcajun Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:25:11pm |
re: #31 BignJames
What? You've never suffered a blow to the head that turned you into a radio reciever?...you've been deprived.
Also, it was pretty racist, too. Note the negative depiction of head-hunters.
| 40 |
Dancing along the light of day Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:25:11pm |
re: #31 BignJames
LOL!
I've been depraved, don't know that I've ever been deprived...
///
| 41 |
Gus Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:25:27pm |
| 42 |
zombie Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:25:34pm |
I've always regarded (seriously) Gilligan's Island as the best-ever television show -- or at least the gold standard against which all TV sitcoms must be measured. It's got the "perfect" sitcom setting. How each episode played out was almost irrelevant.
But just the other day I saw two episodes of I Dream of Jeannie, which I'd always remembered as having some extra special little something to it that set it apart. Sure enough, it was about 30 times funnier than I thought it would be! Whereas most other old sitcoms are completely stale, their humor lost in the alleyways of time. For some reason, the writers of I Dream of Jeannie were on a different plane -- not sure why. Also, Bill Dailey as Major Healy is absolutely brilliant -- the best "deadpan" character ever. He never says anything "funny," no punch lines, yet he steals every scene, just by being the straight guy.
| 43 |
Gus Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:26:19pm |
re: #39 calcajun
Also, it was pretty racist, too. Note the negative depiction of head-hunters.
Gilligan's Island: The Banned Episodes
Available only on DVD
//Teaching moment.
/
| 44 |
calcajun Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:27:07pm |
| 45 |
Bob Dillon Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:28:12pm |
re: #35 Pvt Bin Jammin
All the guys I know really prefer Mary Ann.
Never watched the show - just snippets here and there - when on the cruise she was a very classy lady.
| 46 |
Dancing along the light of day Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:28:35pm |
re: #42 zombie
What is NOT to love about Barbara Eden in very racy ( for the time) clothing? And Larry Hagman as an astronaut? Space was our national obsession! Plus, it was a very well written show! I'll go look up the writers & producers in a minute!
| 48 |
zombie Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:28:43pm |
re: #44 calcajun
-- the epitome of male wish fulfillment.
Except -- they never have sex.
(Until a later season, I think, when they actually get married. At that point, however, the show becomes just another version of Bewitched - - guy with a magical housewife.)
| 49 |
calcajun Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:28:54pm |
But, there were the touching episodes when the Skipper had a bout of PTSD and relived his time on Guadalcanal. He might have been sleepwalking, but that man had issues.
| 50 |
BignJames Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:29:23pm |
| 51 |
Bob Dillon Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:29:49pm |
| 52 |
calcajun Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:30:09pm |
re: #48 zombie
Yeah, but she had a sister (who looked a lot like Barbara Eden) that was "a good sport"
| 53 |
Pvt Bin Jammin Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:30:33pm |
re: #45 Bobibutu
Never watched the show - just snippets here and there - when on the cruise she was a very classy lady.
My hubby is a tv addict so I saw every re-run. I'll bet she is a nice lady.
| 55 |
calcajun Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:31:12pm |
re: #51 Bobibutu
What's the shame?
Turns out it was weed. Bu, I know guys who used meth and it does age people in nasty ways.
| 57 |
calcajun Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:32:27pm |
| 59 |
Dancing along the light of day Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:32:47pm |
Gilligan's Island producers:
Sidney Sheldon
I Dream of Jeannie Executive Producer 1965 Sidney Sheldon (February 11, 1917 – January 30, 2007) was an Academy Award-winning American writer who won awards in three careers-a Broadway playwright, a Hollywood TV and movie screenwriter, and a best-selling novelist. His TV works spanned a 20...
x Herb Wallerstein
I Dream of Jeannie Associate Producer 1965
x Sheldon Schrager
I Dream of Jeannie Associate Producer 1966
x Claudio Guzmán
| 60 |
Throbert McGee Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:33:28pm |
re: #18 zombie
If there's one thing I learned from Gilligan's Island, it's that radiation from fallout makes vegetables grow REALLY BIG!
I don't remember any big-vegetable episode. I do remember one where they found and ate some irradiated vegetables in a crate that washed ashore, causing Gilligan, MaryAnne, and Mrs. Howell to develop superhuman abilities, albeit only temporarily.
| 62 |
Bob Dillon Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:34:33pm |
re: #55 calcajun
Turns out it was weed. Bu, I know guys who used meth and it does age people in nasty ways.
Shame is self induced. I did not get that while interacting with her.
| 63 |
Abu Al-Poopypants Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:34:35pm |
I Dream of Jeannie
Bewitched
My Favorite Martian
Mister Ed
All sitcoms where the 2 main characters were a guy and someone he lived with who had some extraordinary characteristic that nobody else could know about.
| 65 |
BignJames Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:34:42pm |
| 66 |
Dancing along the light of day Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:34:57pm |
| 67 |
Daffy Duck Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:35:36pm |
re: #61 calcajun
nite, y'all.
'nite calcajun. Now that you're leaving, I'll take your seat at the bar. :-)
Howdy lizards.
| 69 |
Fenway_Nation Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:36:34pm |
re: #66 Floral Giraffe
No...but I thought about it and *poof!* next thing you know, there it was.
| 72 |
Gus Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:37:54pm |
| 73 |
SixDegrees Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:38:22pm |
I can't believe no one's mentioned The Beverly Hillbillys yet.
| 74 |
JacksonTn Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:38:23pm |
re: #63 Abu Al-Poopypants
I Dream of Jeannie
Bewitched
My Favorite Martian
Mister EdAll sitcoms where the 2 main characters were a guy and someone he lived with who had some extraordinary characteristic that nobody else could know about.
AbaPP ... Hazel ...
| 75 |
gmsc Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:39:06pm |
If not for the courage of the fearless crew,
the Minnow would be lost.The Minnow would be lost.
— Gilligan’s Island
That's good, but how about a little Emily Dickinson poetry?
Or better yet, how about Emily Dickinson's poetry sung to the tune of Gilligan's Island? And vice versa?
| 76 |
Gus Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:39:11pm |
| 77 |
Bob Dillon Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:39:18pm |
re: #53 Pvt Bin Jammin
My hubby is a tv addict so I saw every re-run. I'll bet she is a nice lady.
Very nice from my interactions.
And I did not get why we were center-piecing her for the cruise.
But WTH - I qualified for it and went (the Co flew me in from Alaska - took my GF from Fla. and had a great time).
| 78 |
BignJames Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:39:23pm |
re: #73 SixDegrees
I can't believe no one's mentioned The Beverly Hillbillys yet.
Please...try to stay on topic.
| 80 |
zombie Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:39:49pm |
re: #46 Floral Giraffe
What is NOT to love about Barbara Eden in very racy ( for the time) clothing? And Larry Hagman as an astronaut? Space was our national obsession! Plus, it was a very well written show! I'll go look up the writers & producers in a minute!
It's the writing that does it.
One of the episodes I saw was just a random throwaway premise, yet which upon viewing seemed like a classic for the ages:
"Master" (Larry Hagman) complains one day that he's overworked, so Jeannie decides all on her own to help him out -- by making every Sunday, so he doesn't have to go to work!
This of course throws the entire world into an endlessly repeating time-loop, and the whole episode is like a miniature version of "Groundhog Day." Everybody wakes up every day to a Sunday morning blissfully unaware that every previous day was also Sunday morning. Master tries to get Jeannie to relent, but she won't until he "gets some rest." So he has to play along. Eventually he starts to go insane and begins to speak to Jeannie in her bottle, but the psychiatrist character comes in and sees him doing this. Master decides to confess everything - -i.e. the fact that he has a genie -- but she pops back up and tells him she'll let Monday arrive again. So he panics and decides to un-confess, but by that time the psychiatrist has brought the general in to hear the confession. So Larry Hagman has to pretend that it wasn't really him going insane -- he wasn't just practicing the lyrics of a new song! So, naturally, they insist on hearing the song! So he sits down at the piano and improvises this crazy hilarious song. The episode ends with everything reversed -- to make up for her error, Jeannie has now made every day Monday and nobody has any days off!
All this crammed into 20 minutes of air time. Brilliant!
| 81 |
SixDegrees Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:40:00pm |
re: #63 Abu Al-Poopypants
I Dream of Jeannie
Bewitched
My Favorite Martian
Mister EdAll sitcoms where the 2 main characters were a guy and someone he lived with who had some extraordinary characteristic that nobody else could know about.
You forgot My Mother the Car.
Not surprisingly. It is widely considered the worst television show ever produced.
| 82 |
Throbert McGee Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:40:19pm |
re: #50 BignJames
"extra special little something"
Yeah...Barbara Eden...ooowwwWWW!
Well let me tell you all a story 'bout a Harper Valley widowed wife...
| 83 |
zombie Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:41:17pm |
re: #60 Throbert McGee
I don't remember any big-vegetable episode. I do remember one where they found and ate some irradiated vegetables in a crate that washed ashore, causing Gilligan, MaryAnne, and Mrs. Howell to develop superhuman abilities, albeit only temporarily.
The one you missed had an A-Bomb test on a nearby island, and the fallout made the vegetables grow to gargantuan size -- like ten feet long!
| 84 |
Bob Dillon Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:43:25pm |
re: #80 zombie
My god zom - what a memory or you have multiple assistances with profound Google skills.
/
| 85 |
zombie Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:43:42pm |
re: #81 SixDegrees
You forgot My Mother the Car.
Not surprisingly. It is widely considered the worst television show ever produced.
I loved that show!
(Note: all these shows were seen by me as reruns!)
| 86 |
Dancing along the light of day Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:43:49pm |
re: #69 Fenway_Nation
A likely story...
| 87 |
zombie Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:44:09pm |
re: #84 Bobibutu
My god zom - what a memory or you have multiple assistances with profound Google skills.
/
Well, I only saw it two days ago, so it is fresh in my mind!
| 88 |
TheMatrix31 Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:44:18pm |
Conan commented on Oklahoma City having shockingly low unemployment numbers...and he's doing a skit about "why".
/It's not run by Dems?
| 89 |
Fenway_Nation Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:44:43pm |
re: #81 SixDegrees
What about Supertrain?
| 90 |
zombie Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:45:14pm |
re: #50 BignJames
"extra special little something"
Yeah...Barbara Eden...ooowwwWWW!
re: #82 Throbert McGee
Well let me tell you all a story 'bout a Harper Valley widowed wife...
[Video]
For Barbara Eden fans, she is at her best -- far and away her best -- in the Seven Face of Dr. Lai (or whatever it was called) with Tony Randall.
| 91 |
Gus Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:45:22pm |
| 92 |
Bob Dillon Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:45:34pm |
| 93 |
BignJames Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:45:36pm |
| 94 |
Dancing along the light of day Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:45:46pm |
re: #85 zombie
(Note: all these shows were seen by me as reruns!)
*cough*cough*cough*
Um, yes, so you SAY...
;)
| 96 |
Render Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:47:10pm |
[Link: www.dawn-wells.com...]
I see retractions are due all around...
What's Ginger up to these days?
BEAT
THE
WRAP,
R
| 97 |
Bob Dillon Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:47:15pm |
re: #94 Floral Giraffe
(Note: all these shows were seen by me as reruns!)
*cough*cough*cough*
Um, yes, so you SAY...
;)
Never underestimate the power of cable TV.
| 98 |
Fenway_Nation Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:47:27pm |
re: #88 TheMatrix31
Right after breathless, sip-by-sip coveroage of 0bama's Beer Garden Putsch Putz, CNN was about ready to do a story on Conan 0'Brian's funny funny Sarah Palin joke- whatever it was last night.
| 99 |
gmsc Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:47:38pm |
re: #95 zombie
Ah, it's the 7 Faces of Dr. Lao
There's nothing like a movie poster that says "Bolt the doors! Lock the windows! It's Tony Randall!" to get you to take a closer look at the poster.
| 100 |
TheMatrix31 Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:48:06pm |
re: #98 Fenway_Nation
Right after breathless, sip-by-sip coveroage of 0bama's Beer Garden
PutschPutz, CNN was about ready to do a story on Conan 0'Brian's funny funny Sarah Palin joke- whatever it was last night.
It wasn't funny at all lol. Definitely not up to Conan's otherwise awesome, hilarious standards.
| 101 |
zombie Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:48:26pm |
re: #99 gmsc
There's nothing like a movie poster that says "Bolt the doors! Lock the windows! It's Tony Randall!" to get you to take a closer look at the poster.
It's actually a really entertaining film.
| 102 |
Pvt Bin Jammin Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:48:28pm |
re: #77 Bobibutu
Very nice from my interactions.
And I did not get why we were center-piecing her for the cruise.
But WTH - I qualified for it and went (the Co flew me in from Alaska - took my GF from Fla. and had a great time).
Sounds good. We did that Alaska trip in June of '08. It's grand. I would recommend it to anyone of any age but they call it the "old folks" cruise
| 103 |
BignJames Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:48:42pm |
re: #90 zombie
For Barbara Eden fans, she is at her best -- far and away her best -- in the Seven Face of Dr. Lai (or whatever it was called) with Tony Randall.
Yeah, saw that movie when I was 9 or 10...Randall's character (one of his characters) catching a fish from the dry streambed is a hoot.
| 104 |
Fenway_Nation Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:50:00pm |
re: #100 TheMatrix31
It wasn't funny at all lol. Definitely not up to Conan's otherwise awesome, hilarious standards.
CNN must've thought it was up to their hilarious standards...
What exactly was the joke, anyways? And what's the skit about low unemployment in OK?
| 105 |
gmsc Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:50:08pm |
Here's some Barbara Eden/Larry Hagman goodness (forgive the low quality):
| 106 |
BignJames Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:50:27pm |
| 107 |
Bob Dillon Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:50:35pm |
re: #100 TheMatrix31
It wasn't funny at all lol. Definitely not up to Conan's otherwise awesome, hilarious standards.
Are you referring to Conan The Conquerer or the film that has yet to be?
/
| 108 |
Pvt Bin Jammin Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:52:50pm |
I am heading to bed, lizards. Nice to see everyone.
| 109 |
Throbert McGee Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:53:14pm |
Well, time for me to hit the hay... g'nite, ladies and jellyspoons!
| 110 |
gmsc Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:53:17pm |
| 111 |
Bob Dillon Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:53:49pm |
re: #102 Pvt Bin Jammin
Sounds good. We did that Alaska trip in June of '08. It's grand. I would recommend it to anyone of any age but they call it the "old folks" cruise
When some friends took it they wore them selves out on the way up and crashed in Anchorage for 3 days.
Do it backwards - save your energy and have fun then.
| 116 |
zombie Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:54:54pm |
Actually, you should let them frot, because that way they won't reproduce!
| 117 |
sngnsgt Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:55:14pm |
Rasmusen Reports™ has Barry 0 @ 51% Total Disapprove
| 118 |
TheMatrix31 Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:55:40pm |
re: #104 Fenway_Nation
CNN must've thought it was up to their hilarious standards...
What exactly was the joke, anyways? And what's the skit about low unemployment in OK?
It was William Shatner reading Palin "tweets" in a jungle-style prose thing with like weird tribal drums in the back and stuff. Weird.
The skit about unemployment wasn't really skit, more like one of those things where there there's a guy acting like he's being interviewed split-screen. Some guy "in OKC" talking about jobs created, about how they've turned hookers into "horny men pleasers" etc. Lame but funny.
| 119 |
gmsc Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:00:01am |
Today in History, July 31st:
Highlights of this day in history: Ranger 7 beams lunar pictures; France's Marquis de Lafayette makes his name in the American Revolution; Thomas Eagleton withdraws as George McGovern's running mate; Harry Potter author J.K. Rowling born.
Other notable July 31st events include:
1498 – On his third voyage to the Western Hemisphere, Christopher Columbus becomes the first European to discover the island of Trinidad.
1588 – The Spanish Armada is spotted off the coast of England.
1930 – The radio mystery program The Shadow is aired for the first time.
1948 – At Idlewild Field in New York, New York International Airport (later renamed John F. Kennedy International Airport) is dedicated.
1951 – Japan Airlines is established.
1961 – At Fenway Park in Boston, Massachusetts, the first All-Star Game tie in major league baseball history occurs when the game is stopped in the 9th inning because of rain.
1971 – Apollo program: Apollo 15 astronauts become the first to ride in a lunar rover.
1972 – Northeast Airlines flies its last flight before being integrated into Delta Air Lines the next day.
1981 – 42-day strike of Major League Baseball ends in the United States.
| 120 |
Pvt Bin Jammin Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:01:37am |
re: #111 Bobibutu
Makes sense. Our daughter and her friend did all of the high level in-port tours, rowing, mountain climbing, etc. They are fairly physically fit but dang, I don't think they really enjoyed it. They were constantly wiped out Us, we whale watched and drank, but not too much on the drinks, just enough.
I'm out.
| 121 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:02:24am |
July 31 - Trading Deadline Day.
That's all that matters!
| 122 |
Fenway_Nation Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:02:53am |
re: #119 gmsc
1961 – At Fenway Park in Boston, Massachusetts, the first All-Star Game tie in major league baseball history occurs when the game is stopped in the 9th inning because of rain.
Before my time...
Ted Williams ghost should've kicked Bud Selig's ass for suspending the 2002 All Star Game.
| 123 |
Bob Dillon Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:03:44am |
re: #120 Pvt Bin Jammin
Makes sense. Our daughter and her friend did all of the high level in-port tours, rowing, mountain climbing, etc. They are fairly physically fit but dang, I don't think they really enjoyed it. They were constantly wiped out Us, we whale watched and drank, but not too much on the drinks, just enough.
I'm out.
There are some great horse back adventures in country as well - I'll get the links.
Rest well.
| 124 |
gmsc Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:04:55am |
re: #122 Fenway_Nation
Before my time...
Ted Williams ghost should've kicked Bud Selig's ass for suspending the 2002 All Star Game.
Somehow I knew you'd pick that one out.
| 125 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:06:50am |
1. Please Lord, don't let the Red Sox get Adrian Gonzalez.
2. Please Lord, don't let the Dodgers get Roy Halladay.
| 126 |
HelloDare Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:07:42am |
re: #90 zombie
For Barbara Eden fans, she is at her best -- far and away her best -- in the Seven Face of Dr. Lai (or whatever it was called) with Tony Randall.
[Link: video.google.com...]
| 127 |
Fenway_Nation Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:08:11am |
re: #121 TheMatrix31
The Pit Sox Pittsburgh's been busy unloading, I see.
I'd like to see Ryan Doumit (the one Pirate who stayed in Pittsburgh this week) become Jason Varitek's heir apparent.
| 128 |
HelloDare Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:08:24am |
| 129 |
Fenway_Nation Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:09:50am |
re: #125 TheMatrix31
1. Please Lord, don't let the Red Sox get Adrian Gonzalez.2. Please Lord, don't let
theDodgersanother AL East team get Roy Halladay.
Needed fixin'...
| 130 |
Bob Dillon Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:10:01am |
re: #123 Bobibutu
Here we go:
[Link: www.castlemountainb-b.com...]
I used to ride for these folks - volunteer - drive 110 miles on Sat mornings- capture - feed - curry - saddle and then ride shotgun for the tourists ... day rides to 3 months.
Never made it to the top of Castle Mt. Damn! A very rare treat.
| 132 |
Daffy Duck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:10:27am |
re: #125 TheMatrix31
1. Please Lord, don't let the Red Sox get Adrian Gonzalez.
2. Please Lord, don't let the Dodgers get Roy Halladay.
Talk here (Detroit) was that Toronto offered Halladay to the Tigers - aparently for a price the Tigers didn't want ot pay. I think we (they) should have done the deal.
| 133 |
JacksonTn Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:10:30am |
This is where I go late at night … when I cannot sleep (yeah sad) … and I listen to music and I remember … what I was like before … this stupid long two plus years of the election …
The struggle to still be what you always believed … the “fairness” … what in the hell does that mean any longer … where do you decide when it crosses the line to “taking” … when did it become that if you were “for” those that worked and made something out of their lives in regards to business that you were “against” those that did not … I am having a really hard time with this … as are many of my friends and family … what is “right” now … and I am not talking about the political “right” … because really who cares about the labels of right and left any longer because they are fucking bogus …
In the last two years … I have seen many of my friends and associates kind of drawn inward … and this concerns me because I feel like it is becoming a kind of “us” against “them” kind of thing … and I don’t believe it is something only happening among my friends and business associates in the area where I live …
These are people (my friends) who for many years were not like they are now … I am not sure what is happening … this is not a total product of Obama … this has been around even before he got into office but I believe festering for some time …. Many of my friends were even I guess what some would call “hippie” types … kinda communal people … they even today do CSA farming …
Maybe it is time to get out of dealing with corporate world … but it seems like it is getting bigger every single day … I wish I did not sound so harsh sometimes … it makes me think how horrible it sounds … but in fact I never say those things in public only on this blog … well, except when I am talking to my congress person … but I still do not like people who make out like real leftist agenda is not being pushed when I know for a fact it is …
Do ya’ll think there is even a shadow of hope for a middle ground anywhere in America …
I know it sounds like nothing … but it bothers me …
| 134 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:12:52am |
That Halladay deal should have been done by the Tigers. That's "nothing" for him!
Halladay, Verlander, and Jackson would be filthy.
I wonder what my Braves are going to do, if anything. They're 3.5 out of the WC, which is better than I expected. If we're two games out of the WC by the end of August, I'll be happy.
| 135 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:14:21am |
re: #127 Fenway_Nation
The Pit SoxPittsburgh's been busy unloading, I see.I'd like to see Ryan Doumit (the one Pirate who stayed in Pittsburgh this week) become Jason Varitek's heir apparent.
Freakin' massive firesale. It's been downhill for them ever since Frank Cabrera got the game winner ;)
| 136 |
Fenway_Nation Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:14:23am |
What is Adrian Gonzales' contract situation w/San Diego, anyways? Does he have a no-trade clause that he'd have to waive? Would he have any sort of leverage where he could insist his brother Edgar would be included in a trade?
| 137 |
Daffy Duck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:15:11am |
re: #133 JacksonTn
Do ya’ll think there is even a shadow of hope for a middle ground anywhere in America …
We're in the midst of the HopenChange adminstration, and YOU post something like that?!
Off the the re-education camps with you, Jackson.
| 138 |
Daffy Duck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:16:11am |
re: #134 TheMatrix31
True dat. Also true, is Tigers still can't hit. We need some sticks up here.
| 139 |
Render Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:16:38am |
Excerpts...
===
Health care plan is not going as planned.
Got caught drinking with Skip. Wifes pissed, no wonder Skip is divorced.
Plan to destroy the military keeps getting leaked to the press, who thankfully don't actually seem to notice themselves.
All that work to keep Tsar Putin smooth and unruffled and Biden had to go and run his mouth, and now the guy is sponging a free beer out of me?
Friends keep calling me up for get-out-of-jail-free cards at all hours. (four more beers gone from the White House budget.)
Tried to slap five with the Iranians, North Koreans, Chavez, Tsar Putin and everybody else that openly hates us, has declared war on us, or is generally malcontent over the last couple of decades. Only to discover that they're all not as far behind the times as I'd previously supposed, they know all about that fist bump thing, cuz that's what they all showed me in return to my open hand. Maybe some of them would drink a beer with me?
Had to buy beer for a cop, so much for the street cred after this gig is over...
*HOLYCRP!* Has anybody ever really seen that Pelosi womans face up close before?
I thought Hillary had her own plane? Bet she woulda been better company to have a beer with, or two...
Four beers short and it isn't even Friday yet.
I need a cigarette...
===
CHRONICLES
OF THE
UNREADY,
R
| 140 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:17:13am |
re: #136 Fenway_Nation
What is Adrian Gonzales' contract situation w/San Diego, anyways? Does he have a no-trade clause that he'd have to waive? Would he have any sort of leverage where he could insist his brother Edgar would be included in a trade?
I'm not sure. I coulda sworn he's locked up for the next few years.
| 141 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:17:52am |
The Padres and Gonzalez, 25, yesterday announced a $9.5 million contract that runs through 2010 with the club holding an option for 2011 at $5.5 million.
| 142 |
BignJames Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:18:24am |
re: #133 JacksonTn
What amazes me is the % of people that are uninformed, misinformed, or just apathetic.
| 143 |
gmsc Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:20:22am |
re: #142 BignJames
What amazes me is the % of people that are uninformed, misinformed, or just apathetic.
I don't know and I don't care?
///
| 144 |
Bob Dillon Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:20:58am |
re: #133 JacksonTn
Pound on your Congress reps - and encourage your associates to do as well.
That is all we have besides physical protest.
| 145 |
Fenway_Nation Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:21:37am |
re: #142 BignJames
Yeah? So? What's that got to do with me?
/
| 148 |
gmsc Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:24:10am |
| 149 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:24:14am |
re: #146 HelloDare
Barack Gilligan Obama
Well, let's not say anything about "Ginger", because that'll be offensive.
/
| 150 |
Fenway_Nation Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:24:33am |
| 151 |
JacksonTn Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:25:50am |
re: #144 Bobibutu
Pound on your Congress reps - and encourage your associates to do as well.
That is all we have besides physical protest.
Bobi ... Lincoln Davis already knows who I am and has for years and avoids me whenever possible ... I have asked for his calendar in August and his staff has not given me any dates for a townhall anywhere near where I am but I am willing to travel ... the Blue Dogs have caved before and they will again ... he did not even vote as a Super Delegate in the primary ... he sat on the sidelines ... I did not vote for him the the past election and he knows it ...
| 152 |
gmsc Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:26:24am |
| 154 |
Bob Dillon Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:26:42am |
| 155 |
Daffy Duck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:29:12am |
re: #133 JacksonTn
… but I still do not like people who make out like real leftist agenda is not being pushed when I know for a fact it is …
In all seriousness, USA has had 80 - 90 years of "creeping socialism." And now we have President Government, to put the final touches on the grand scheme. If you've ever read The Manifesto of the Communist Party, you know what has transpired, and what is still to come:
Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.
1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc.
Communists are patient sonsabitches.
| 156 |
Fenway_Nation Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:29:42am |
re: #153 Render
I thought that was anything that worked the Grizzly...but I'm not shocked to hear that.
/If only ACORN would order a couple...
| 157 |
BignJames Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:30:39am |
re: #145 Fenway_Nation
Yeah? So? What's that got to do with me?
/
You can do better than that...try...Where's mine?...What's in it for me?...Gimme, gimme...That's not fair!
| 158 |
Dancing along the light of day Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:31:30am |
re: #150 Fenway_Nation
I miss the gun threads...
| 159 |
Render Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:32:45am |
re: #156 Fenway_Nation
200 made for US service. No replacements ordered.
Originally South African btw.
WHAT
WE
GOT,
R
| 160 |
Fenway_Nation Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:33:23am |
re: #158 Floral Giraffe
Are you implying this thread isn't up to caliber?
Oh...wait. I thought you said PUN threads...
| 161 |
Daffy Duck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:34:00am |
| 162 |
Bob Dillon Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:34:09am |
re: #151 JacksonTn
Bobi ... Lincoln Davis already knows who I am and has for years and avoids me whenever possible ... I have asked for his calendar in August and his staff has not given me any dates for a townhall anywhere near where I am but I am willing to travel ... the Blue Dogs have caved before and they will again ... he did not even vote as a Super Delegate in the primary ... he sat on the sidelines ... I did not vote for him the the past election and he knows it ...
There is FOIA - the right to file suit - etc.
If you are motivated - all things are possible.
If you let the bastards grind yo down - look to yourself.
If you have specific issues - there is much help here - pose your outcome.
| 163 |
BignJames Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:34:16am |
re: #160 Fenway_Nation
Are you implying this thread isn't up to caliber?
Oh...wait. I thought you said PUN threads...
No..no..no...oh God...please no.
| 164 |
Dancing along the light of day Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:34:23am |
re: #155 Daffy Duck
I don't KNOW about #3. My accountant feels that the Inheritance taxes are going to be done away with, that they are less than 5% of the taxes collected. DOesn't matter for my family, we are "little people" under 4 million, but it might matter a LOT to self made small business owners...
| 165 |
Dancing along the light of day Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:35:00am |
re: #161 Daffy Duck
Show me the money, honey...
;)
| 166 |
gmsc Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:35:54am |
re: #155 Daffy Duck
Communists are patient sonsabitches.
Black Bart, the noted "Po8" put it best:
Came here west when I was young,
For gold and fancy riches,
I can't find none, so i'll rob you all,
You long haired sons of bitches.Black Bart
| 167 |
Dancing along the light of day Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:36:33am |
Good night, Lizards.
May you always have the biggest gun.
And be prepared to use it!
| 169 |
Fenway_Nation Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:37:00am |
re: #159 Render
I knew about the South African part.
The Stryker is based on the Swiss Piranah APC
The M249 LMG originated w/Belgium's Fabrique National
Much of the 5.56mm rounds come from Israel
The M9 Pistol is made by Italy's Baretta
AFAIK, the berets are made in China...
Oh...and we're nearing double-digit unemployment.
| 170 |
gmsc Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:37:02am |
re: #167 Floral Giraffe
Good night, Lizards.
May you always have the biggest gun.
And be prepared to use it!
G'nite, Purple 'Potamus!
| 171 |
Bob Dillon Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:37:43am |
re: #166 gmsc
[Link: www.fbi.gov...]
When asked why he robbed banks, Sutton simply replied, "Because that's where the money is."
| 172 |
Fenway_Nation Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:38:17am |
re: #167 Floral Giraffe
Sweet dreams, vicous vulture!
| 173 |
gmsc Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:40:33am |
re: #171 Bobibutu
[Link: www.fbi.gov...]
When asked why he robbed banks, Sutton simply replied, "Because that's where the money is."
Care to guess what Willie Sutton titled his autobography?
Let us not forget Ol' Mr. 880.
| 174 |
JacksonTn Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:41:11am |
re: #162 Bobibutu
There is FOIA - the right to file suit - etc.
If you are motivated - all things are possible.
If you let the bastards grind yo down - look to yourself.
If you have specific issues - there is much help here - pose your outcome.
Bobibutu ... no ... nothing will ever get us down ... we are just very sad ... the only thing that would ever get us to stop doing what we are doing is if anyone ever came to our farms and told us we had to unionize via card check ... then we would shut down that day ... we have already discussed this ... I don't believe that will happen but if it did we are prepared ... I know some of my comments on this blog may seem redneck to some but we are far from that ... we appreciate all people and appreciate all persons willingness to work and fair pay for work ... but we also respect a persons right to their own land and ownership of their land and business ...
| 175 |
HelloDare Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:41:49am |
[ I just added this to the Spinoffs upstairs. ]
A Case Against Precipitous Climate Action
The notion of a static, unchanging climate is foreign to the history of the earth or any other planet with a fluid envelope. The fact that the developed world went into hysterics over changes in global mean temperature anomaly of a few tenths of a degree will astound future generations. Such hysteria simply represents the scientific illiteracy of much of the public, the susceptibility of the public to the substitution of repetition for truth, and the exploitation of these weaknesses by politicians, environmental promoters, and, after 20 years of media drum beating, many others as well. Climate is always changing. We have had ice ages and warmer periods when alligators were found in Spitzbergen. Ice ages have occurred in a hundred thousand year cycle for the last 700 thousand years, and there have been previous periods that appear to have been warmer than the present despite CO2 levels being lower than they are now. More recently, we have had the medieval warm period and the little ice age. During the latter, alpine glaciers advanced to the chagrin of overrun villages. Since the beginning of the 19th Century these glaciers have been retreating. Frankly, we don’t fully understand either the advance or the retreat.
For small changes in climate associated with tenths of a degree, there is no need for any external cause. The earth is never exactly in equilibrium. The motions of the massive oceans where heat is moved between deep layers and the surface provides variability on time scales from years to centuries. Recent work (Tsonis et al, 2007), suggests that this variability is enough to account for all climate change since the 19th Century. Supporting the notion that man has not been the cause of this unexceptional change in temperature is the fact that there is a distinct signature to greenhouse warming: surface warming should be accompanied by warming in the tropics around an altitude of about 9km that is about 2.5 times greater than at the surface. Measurements show that warming at these levels is only about 3/4 of what is seen at the surface, implying that only about a third of the surface warming is associated with the greenhouse effect, and, quite possibly, not all of even this really small warming is due to man (Lindzen, 2007, Douglass et al, 2007). This further implies that all models predicting significant warming are greatly overestimating warming. This should not be surprising (though inevitably in climate science, when data conflicts with models, a small coterie of scientists can be counted upon to modify the data. Thus, Santer, et al (2008), argue that stretching uncertainties in observations and models might marginally eliminate the inconsistency. That the data should always need correcting to agree with models is totally implausible and indicative of a certain corruption within the climate science community).
It turns out that there is a much more fundamental and unambiguous check of the role of feedbacks in enhancing greenhouse warming that also shows that all models are greatly exaggerating climate sensitivity. Here, it must be noted that the greenhouse effect operates by inhibiting the cooling of the climate by reducing net outgoing radiation. However, the contribution of increasing CO2 alone does not, in fact, lead to much warming (approximately 1 deg. C for each doubling of CO2). The larger predictions from climate models are due to the fact that, within these models, the more important greenhouse substances, water vapor and clouds, act to greatly amplify whatever CO2 does...
| 176 |
Fenway_Nation Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:42:09am |
re: #171 Bobibutu
When a confused passerby asked for directions to Carnegie Hall, Sutton replied "Practice, man, practice"...
| 177 |
freetoken Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:44:45am |
re: #175 HelloDare
It should be pointed out that is an opinion piece, written for a political debate.
Lindzen lost the scientific debate, which is why this isn't a scientific paper in a journal.
| 178 |
Bob Dillon Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:44:59am |
| 179 |
Bob Dillon Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:50:13am |
re: #174 JacksonTn
Rednecks! YeeeHawa!
We do what we can do - then protest thru our elected reps.
And yes - we are screwed - with the present congresscritters -
| 180 |
BignJames Fri, Jul 31, 2009 12:53:44am |
re: #177 freetoken
It should be pointed out that is an opinion piece, written for a political debate.
Lindzen lost the scientific debate, which is why this isn't a scientific paper in a journal.
Lost the scientific debate with whom.
| 181 |
Render Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:00:43am |
re: #169 Fenway_Nation
Ah but...
The Grizzly, Stryker, M-249, (M-240 as well), and the M9mm are all made in the US, under license. The main gun in the Abrams is a Rheinmetal design. I'm good with all that, it doesn't put people out of work.
Not sure what the actual ratio of 5.56mm bought is per nation, but I am sure that we've tapped more then a few of our other allies to keep up existing stockpiles. Given the relative size of Israels small arms industry, and its own needs, I can't buy into the "much" theory, except possibly in the Iraq theater itself for the reduced shipping costs, and/or of certain types of high performance ammo. Noting that SOCOM gets to buy whatever it wants, pretty much whenever it wants...
AS IT
SHOULD
BE,
R
| 182 |
freetoken Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:03:59am |
re: #180 BignJames
Lost the scientific debate with whom.
With the climatology community at large. Lindzen has some fame, and he is one of the few (very few) legitimate scientists who remained skeptical of the severity of AGW (though he never outright denied it.) He spent years trying to prove that this or that mechanism of positive feedback was not as serious as others had claimed, but didn't get very far. He tried to do that with clouds, but evidently gave up a year or so ago.
He's authored quite a few papers, as the google scholar search will show:
[Link: scholar.google.com...]
Now, he seems to be taking the Lomborg, who also doesn't technically deny AGW, but rather spends his effort trying to convince people that it isn't worth spending effort in trying to minimize it.
| 184 |
JacksonTn Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:04:42am |
re: #179 Bobibutu
Rednecks! YeeeHawa!
We do what we can do - then protest thru our elected reps.
And yes - we are screwed - with the present congresscritters -
Bobibutu ... yeah ... I guess I have a harder time about things then some ... because I just do not seem to have a "place" now ... that is what happens when you seam yourself into a party for so long ... and then when you make your own way ... it is just hard to find where you do belong ... but then maybe "belonging" to a party is not really what it is all about anyway ... but then that kinda sounds touchy so it would sound "lefty" ... hahahaha ... crazy ... I guess I was always taught to believe "right-wing" people were so absolute in their views .. but then when I came to this blog (as a refuge from the DNC blog cuz there was no room for asking anything about Obama) not sure why this blog is even considered a right-wing blog ...
I may not have a "party" now and probably never will again ... but I still recognize what I do not feel good about ... and that is still Obama ... I fought him and his supporters against my own party during the primary and I still do not like him now as President ... I really hope he is defeated in 2012 ...
Having said all that ... it is still every easy to spot people who "say" they are neutral ... but they are not ... they do it well ..
| 185 |
gmsc Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:06:14am |
re: #178 Bobibutu
Enlighten us!
I always thot I went into the wrong profession.
/
Wille Sutton's autobiography title? "Because That's Where The Money Is!" (He even once was hired to do a TV commercial for a bank's new photo-ID credit card!)
As for Mr. 880, he was an interesting character.
The Secret Service (being a branch of the Treasury Dept.) is accustomed to seeing counterfeit bills day in and day out, but they're usually carefully (although not perfectly) duplicated $100s and $50s.
Back in the late 1920s/early 1930s, several poorly done $1 bills came to their attention. They were very poorly done. They looked OK with a passing glance, but if you looked at them for even 5 seconds, you would immediately notice things like Washington being cross-eyed, or the fact that his name was spelled "Wassington" (2 S's and no H).
This really puzzled the Secret Service. First, why counterfeit $1 bills? Second, how were these bills getting so far when they were poorly done. They tried to investigate further, but couldn't find any other bills, and simply put the incident in their files (File #880, to be exact, which is where this guy gets his nickname).
After several months, they had moved on and mostly forgotten about this case, and then a few of Mr. 880's bills showed up again, but in a different location. Again, they tried to track him down, and hit a brick wall. They did find a few more bills, but nobody seemed really worried about having been passed a counterfeit $1 bill. One store even had such a bill framed (Before the Secret Service confiscated it as evidence)!
Just like before, the trail of the bills dried up just as quickly as they had come. This actually continued for over 20 years, with a few bills springing up here and there, and then nothing!
Finally, with help via a tip from a landlord who had received one of the bills, they finally tracked down an old man known as "The Skipper" (as in ships, not bills). He'd lived alone, with only his dog for company, on a fixed income. Sure enough, in his apartment was the poorly-hobbled together equipment used to make the phony dollar bills.
They took the equipment and interviewed, asking him all the questions they'd come up with over the years. Basically, he tried to do his best on his fixed income, but couldn't always make it.
He wasn't greedy, but he did occasionally need food or other basics for himself and his dog. He didn't need much, so he never counterfeited anything other than $1 bills, and he made a promise to himself to never spend more than one at any one place, so no one would be hurt by the loss.
His lack of greed, his use for only his own basic needs, the small amount of currency (and the fact that few people check low-denomination bills closely) and the sparingly-done creation of the bills not only got him by, but also made him almost impossible to catch.
By they time they had finally caught up with him, he was so old that the Secret Service decided a criminal charge wasn't worth pursuing (plus, how would you like to tell a judge you're prosecuting an old man for counterfeiting less than $100?). They took his equipment, and basically made the old man promise never to make fake money again.
Before he died, the Skipper did make some nice legal amounts of money, as Disney bought the rights to a story for a movie (Mister 880), which they released in 1950.
| 186 |
Bob Dillon Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:08:47am |
| 188 |
Bob Dillon Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:12:45am |
OK - I'm down and out.
Nite Lizards. Rest well.
| 189 |
gmsc Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:12:50am |
| 190 |
gmsc Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:13:03am |
| 191 |
BignJames Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:13:26am |
re: #183 freetoken
So I take it you're convinced that AGW is proven, irrefutable fact?
| 192 |
littleoldlady Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:13:57am |
re: #184 JacksonTn
It not easy being green a Democrat.
/verybigsigh
//I want another political party!
///Other than the "Throw the Bums Out" Party that I've already joined...
| 193 |
gmsc Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:16:08am |
Mr. B Natural, brought to you by MST3K:
| 194 |
JimmyTheClaw Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:16:27am |
Over five thousand years ago, Moses said to the children of Israel " pick up your shovel, Mount your asses and camels, and I will lead you to the promised land".
Nearly 75 years ago, Roosevelt said, " Lay down your shovels, sit on your asses, and light up a camel, This is the promised land".
Now Obama has stolen your shovel , taxed your asses, raised the price of camels, and mortgaged the promised land.
God help us.
| 195 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:18:54am |
I'm having a discussion with a super-liberal, basically socialist friend of mine about the merits of depositing cash into the bank. He says don't because it'll get taxed too much.
...irony, eh?
| 197 |
littleoldlady Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:20:49am |
re: #195 TheMatrix31
See? My idea of selling mattresses with built in lock boxes has merit!
/Oy, I am such a capitalist! ;-)
| 198 |
JacksonTn Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:21:03am |
re: #192 littleoldlady
It not easy being
greena Democrat./verybigsigh
//I want another political party!
///Other than the "Throw the Bums Out" Party that I've already joined...
LoL ... not sure if you are making fun of my situation or not ... but I am not whining in the fact that I do not want a party ... it is just that I don' t quite understand what the major parties even stand for any longer ... it has just come to me that the whole "party line" crap is just that ... and it does not really matter what the down the line members think anyway ... the planks change to whatever they think will get them elected ...
| 199 |
HelloDare Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:21:30am |
re: #177 freetoken
It should be pointed out that is an opinion piece, written for a political debate.
Lindzen lost the scientific debate, which is why this isn't a scientific paper in a journal.
Just because this piece does not appear in a scientific journal doesn't mean it is without merit.
How is a Professor of Atmospheric Sciences from MIT supposed to reach the general public?
I noticed that you did not criticize anything Professor Lindzen said. Why is that?
Is any paper that does not appear in a scientific journal by a proponent of AGW not worthy of comment?
I value your criticism of AGW posts. But this isn't at all helpful. What exactly does Lindzen say that you object to?
| 200 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:21:49am |
re: #197 littleoldlady
See? My idea of selling mattresses with built in lock boxes has merit!
/Oy, I am such a capitalist! ;-)
You're just an evil little, old, capitalist lady!
| 201 |
BignJames Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:22:03am |
re: #195 TheMatrix31
I'm having a discussion with a super-liberal, basically socialist friend of mine about the merits of depositing cash into the bank. He says don't because it'll get taxed too much.
...irony, eh?
Kinda' like the folk's that say they don't want to win the lottery because of the taxes they'll have to pay,,,logic...plum evades them.
| 202 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:22:57am |
[01:21AM] -- : well for us it doesnt make too big of a difference
[01:21AM] --: since we dont make shit
[01:21AM] -- : but if you run a business, this is how you save money lol
...and this guy is a super-lib basically-socialist?!
WTF.
| 203 |
Daffy Duck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:25:02am |
re: #202 TheMatrix31
Sounds like a typical case of "socialism for thee, but not for me."
| 204 |
gmsc Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:28:51am |
re: #197 littleoldlady
See? My idea of selling mattresses with built in lock boxes has merit!
/Oy, I am such a capitalist! ;-)
Good morning, littleoldcapitalistlady!
| 205 |
littleoldlady Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:29:30am |
re: #198 JacksonTn
Making fun?! Actually, I was commiserating!
I'm from Philadelphia (and on top of that, Jewish). Being a Democrat is "what we do". I'm still registered as a Democrat here in the suburbs, even though they're not talking to me after I "commented" on the last election to the local head of the party.
Too lazy (or too set in my habits) to go down to the county office and re-register. Besides, I'm not terribly enamored of the Republicans, either.
I've always been an independent voter, regardless. It would just be nice if Independents also had those spiffy Beef 'N Beers to go to...
| 206 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:30:49am |
re: #203 Daffy Duck
Sounds like a typical case of "socialism for thee, but not for me."
Yeah, not surprising he wants to be a lawyer. Probably a future Congressdouche or something.
| 207 |
Fenway_Nation Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:30:56am |
re: #201 BignJames
O yea- first thought on my mind every time I set foot in a casino or horse track is 'Boy, I sure hope I don't win today! I mean...think of all the taxes!'
| 208 |
littleoldlady Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:31:35am |
| 209 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:32:59am |
Is Fenway still here?
| 210 |
gmsc Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:33:14am |
re: #207 Fenway_Nation
O yea- first thought on my mind every time I set foot in a casino or horse track is 'Boy, I sure hope I don't win today! I mean...think of all the taxes!'
All you have to do is back every horse running, and you can't lose.
...or, can you? Couple lose despite backing every greyhound
| 211 |
Fenway_Nation Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:34:06am |
re: #207 Fenway_Nation
The Pet Rock's approval rating is higher than 0bama's right now.
| 212 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:34:48am |
re: #210 gmsc
All you have to do is back every horse running, and you can't lose.
...or, can you? Couple lose despite backing every greyhound
I wish I had the Gray's Sports Almanac.
| 213 |
gmsc Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:35:00am |
| 214 |
Fenway_Nation Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:35:21am |
| 215 |
Daffy Duck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:35:24am |
re: #206 TheMatrix31
Yeah, not surprising he wants to be a lawyer. Probably a future Congressdouche or something.
Great, just what this country needs...more lawyers.
/
| 216 |
gmsc Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:35:50am |
| 217 |
BignJames Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:35:56am |
| 218 |
littleoldlady Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:37:59am |
re: #213 gmsc
Really? You do? ;-)
Have I told you about my handy dandy Do It Yourself Tar & Feather Kit™? "Decorate your Congresscritter and local party hacks!"
/...all I need is a catchy jingle
//Billy Mays (z"l), phone home!
| 219 |
gmsc Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:38:01am |
re: #217 BignJames
Think instant water. It's a sure winner. I can get you in on the ground floor!
I don't know. I'm kid of skeptical after those glow-in-the-dark sunglasses.
| 220 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:38:33am |
| 221 |
gmsc Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:38:50am |
re: #218 littleoldlady
Really? You do? ;-)
Have I told you about my handy dandy Do It Yourself Tar & Feather Kit™? "Decorate your Congresscritter and local party hacks!"
/...all I need is a catchy jingle
//Billy Mays (z"l), phone home!
"Do you feel like Congress treats you like shit?
Get your DIY Tar and Feather kit!"
| 222 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:40:43am |
re: #199 HelloDare
Just because this piece does not appear in a scientific journal doesn't mean it is without merit.
No. But it does mean it hasn't survived the peer review process. Publication in peer reviewed journals and subsequent defense of published work in the same environment is how science is done. If someone has a scientific theory that they expect to be examined, critiqued and ultimately accepted by the scientific community, peer reviewed publication is the gold standard leading to such acceptance.
Ultimately, debates over global warming and it's causes are scientific questions. They need to be conducted within the framework of scientific research - not on personal web pages or in tabloids publications. Those are the venues favored by Bigfoot afficionados and crop circle advocates.
Work with scientific merit is easy to get published in accepted journals. There's no cabal of evil enviornmental overlords blocking publication; the work simply has to meet minimal standards of methodology and integrity. And there has been a good deal of work published in the scientific literature on global warming supporting many different sides of the argument. But if the work hasn't been through peer review, that's probably because, from a scientific standpoint, it isn't up to snuff. Or it flat-out sucks, for any number of reasons, from a scientific viewpoint. Lack of publication does not speak well of the quality of ideas being put forward.
If the science behind global warming is going to be debated, it needs to be debated within the framework science is conducted in.
| 226 |
gmsc Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:43:29am |
| 228 |
Daffy Duck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:44:20am |
re: #222 SixDegrees
Snip
...not on personal web pages or in tabloids publications. Those are the venues favored by Bigfoot afficionados and crop circle advocates.
Hey!...tread lightly.
I'll let it slide, this time.
/
| 229 |
BatGuano Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:44:34am |
re: #225 littleoldlady
Hi, lol ! What am I talking about tonight?
| 231 |
JacksonTn Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:45:36am |
re: #205 littleoldlady
Making fun?! Actually, I was commiserating!
I'm from Philadelphia (and on top of that, Jewish). Being a Democrat is "what we do". I'm still registered as a Democrat here in the suburbs, even though they're not talking to me after I "commented" on the last election to the local head of the party.
Too lazy (or too set in my habits) to go down to the county office and re-register. Besides, I'm not terribly enamored of the Republicans, either.
I've always been an independent voter, regardless. It would just be nice if Independents also had those spiffy Beef 'N Beers to go to...
LoL .. thank you for saying that ... I am not sure where we go from here especially after the last election as I know many democrats who have lost the "idea" of what it meant to be a "down the ballet' or even "yellow dog" democrat and do not know where to turn (and the term "yellow dog democrat" should be done away with anyway) ... I do not believe a third party would work at least right now but maybe someday ...
for me there are many social issues that I cannot identify with on hard-care republican planks ... banning early abortion (I do not want to vote in favor of late-term abortion) ... banning marriage rights ... some others but I don't believe these are the things that are keeping people from crossing the aisle ... I know that Roe v. Wade will not be overturned and I hate that it keeps many women in the democrats voting block ... it is just something that is just pushed towards them and they are constantly told that if they value "womans rights" they must vote democrat ...
I know that Charles posts about evolution but I don't know if that is a main concern (right now but needs to keep being covered) for the majority of voters ... there is much to work to do but it is so fucked up right now because it is such an "us" against "them" thing right now ... I hope that in the next few years we can come to some idea about what is best for America ... I do not believe that the outcome of the last election was in the "best" interest of America but more of an "historic" event ... I am glad that a Black American was elected but I wish it had been a more qualified Black American ...
| 233 |
BatGuano Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:46:35am |
re: #227 TheMatrix31
Good morning Matrix! Did you have an exam today or something?
| 234 |
Fenway_Nation Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:46:47am |
re: #220 TheMatrix31
Remember what I said about how the Sox should get Doumit as Varietk's heir apparent?
Looks like they're thinking more or less the same thing with Victor Martinez.
| 235 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:50:43am |
re: #233 BatGuano
Good morning Matrix! Did you have an exam today or something?
Nope. Finito! I'm sitting on my ass watching TiVo'ed Cheers.
re: #234 Fenway_Nation
Remember what I said about how the Sox should get Doumit as Varietk's heir apparent?
Looks like they're thinking more or less the same thing with Victor Martinez.
Yeah, Victor's a couple years older, but they're both spring chickens compared to Varitek.
| 236 |
BatGuano Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:51:05am |
re: #232 littleoldlady
What I say in my sleep is inadmissible as evidence in a court of law: Or so my attorney says. :)
| 237 |
gmsc Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:53:07am |
Everyone remembers "Hungry Like The Wolf" by Duran Duran.
Why don't you ever hear about Toto's "Africa"?
| 238 |
littleoldlady Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:54:04am |
re: #231 JacksonTn
If only we could keep socio-religious issues out of the realm of legislation I think we'd all find we have much in common.
/what means "yellow dog" and "down the ballet"?
//my Republican neighbors call me a "dirty Democrat"
///...all in good fun! (I think! ;-)
| 239 |
Gus Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:54:20am |
Was looking into this earlier this week and it's been established that:
Crazy Russian Sukhoi Su-35 Pilot Ejects For a Hollywood Movie at Mach 2
Is fake. Since it's a move we can call it special effects. First the flight scene include an SU-35 and the ejection scene is using an SU-27 on the ground thanks an intrepid member of Air Show Buzz. That discussion can be found here.
Also pointed out in the ASB is discussion is that you can see the main gear door still deployed in the photo which is located inboard of the missiles right behind the air intake.
You can see the special effects sequence at Youtube starting at 6:25. Note that it's the same plane from the above photo standing on the ground and there is near zero air flow.
Again, it's covered at ASB.
| 240 |
JacksonTn Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:54:48am |
re: #237 gmsc
Everyone remembers "Hungry Like The Wolf" by Duran Duran.
Why don't you ever hear about Toto's "Africa"?
[Video]
gmsc ... dude ... I am FINALLY coming down from my business trip and flight and I really cannot go to sleep with that on my head ... I am gonna have to think of something ...
| 241 |
BatGuano Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:55:22am |
re: #237 gmsc
It's not just the haunting song, it's the visuals. Great music video.
| 242 |
gmsc Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:55:51am |
re: #240 JacksonTn
gmsc ... dude ... I am FINALLY coming down from my business trip and flight and I really cannot go to sleep with that on my head ... I am gonna have to think of something ...
Sorry!
| 243 |
gmsc Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:57:27am |
re: #240 JacksonTn
gmsc ... dude ... I am FINALLY coming down from my business trip and flight and I really cannot go to sleep with that on my head ... I am gonna have to think of something ...
There are a couple of songs I have running through my head right now:
Walking on Broken Glass:
I Drove All Night:
| 244 |
JacksonTn Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:57:28am |
re: #238 littleoldlady
If only we could keep socio-religious issues out of the realm of legislation I think we'd all find we have much in common.
/what means "yellow dog" and "down the ballet"?
//my Republican neighbors call me a "dirty Democrat"
///...all in good fun! (I think! ;-)
LoL .. "yellow dog" means you would rather vote a yellow dog than a republican which I heard all my life (probably mostly a southern thing but not sure) ... and "down ballot" means about the same thing as you vote down the ballot democrat ... not even looking at the name but the letter after the name ...
| 245 |
Gus Fri, Jul 31, 2009 1:58:41am |
| 246 |
littleoldlady Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:00:06am |
Good morning, afternoon, evening *everyone*!™
Fruitcup is on the buffet --->
Help yourselves!
| 247 |
Fenway_Nation Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:00:13am |
re: #235 TheMatrix31
Martinez and Doumit could be interchangable as 1B/C/DH (hypothetical in Doumit's case, since he plays in the NL)...
We have some flexibility @ 1B/3B, but not neccecarily at C...
| 249 |
littleoldlady Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:01:29am |
re: #244 JacksonTn
Aha! That's what I call Donald Duck Voters, from either party.
/straight party line voter no matter WHO is running
| 250 |
gmsc Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:01:45am |
Wow!
My Grey Matters site averages about 300 or so visitors a day.
Today? I reached almost 1,200 unique visitors! Apparently, the big attraction was my 3-letter body part quiz!
I publicized it some time ago, but something about it struck a nerve today, and many people came to visit it today!
| 251 |
gmsc Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:02:24am |
re: #246 littleoldlady
Good morning, afternoon, evening *everyone*!™
Fruitcup is on the buffet --->
Help yourselves!
Yummy! Victory fruitcup!
| 252 |
littleoldlady Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:02:37am |
I forgot about the arrow line being screwed up :-(
Directions to the buffet → → → → →
| 253 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:02:43am |
re: #246 littleoldlady
Good morning, afternoon, evening *everyone*!™
Fruitcup is on the buffet --->
Help yourselves!
Gracias!
| 254 |
littleoldlady Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:03:26am |
| 256 |
UncleRancher Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:04:36am |
re: #246 littleoldlady
Much obliged atcha! What a treat :-)
| 257 |
gmsc Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:04:56am |
re: #254 littleoldlady
gmsc! :-)
But are you monetized?
But of course! As a matter of fact, the old adsense logs show a corresponding jump in ad revenues!
| 258 |
Gus Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:04:57am |
re: #250 gmsc
Wow!
My Grey Matters site averages about 300 or so visitors a day.
Today? I reached almost 1,200 unique visitors! Apparently, the big attraction was my 3-letter body part quiz!
I publicized it some time ago, but something about it struck a nerve today, and many people came to visit it today!
Ack. Only came 6.
| 261 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:05:29am |
| 262 |
gmsc Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:05:58am |
re: #258 Gus 802
Ack. Only came 6.
The worst part about the quiz is how you feel when you see the answers you missed.
It's especially funny to see people who missed "arm" or "leg".
| 263 |
HelloDare Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:06:11am |
re: #222 SixDegrees
I take your point.
Obviously an article in a public journal has not passed peer review. Okay, where is it at fault?
What exactly has Lindzen said that you object to?
| 264 |
Gus Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:06:25am |
re: #262 gmsc
The worst part about the quiz is how you feel when you see the answers you missed.
It's especially funny to see people who missed "arm" or "leg".
:) Those were the easy ones.
| 265 |
gmsc Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:06:46am |
re: #263 HelloDare
I take your point.
Obviously an article in a public journal has not passed peer review. Okay, where is it at fault?
Don't know - let's subject it to peer review and find out!
| 266 |
littleoldlady Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:07:40am |
| 267 |
Gus Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:07:51am |
re: #265 gmsc
Don't know - let's subject it to peer review and find out!
If I peer at a paper does that count as a peer review? /
| 268 |
freetoken Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:08:26am |
re: #199 HelloDare
Just because this piece does not appear in a scientific journal doesn't mean it is without merit.
Of course... many many times links appear here on lgf to worthy discussions that have nothing to do with peer reviewed letters in science journals.
I just want to emphasize that Lindzen has been attempting to rally the troops against the seriousness of AGW for quite sometime, so what he writes isn't new. There is a very long track record here, and many discussions throughout the the web.
Lindzen represents a tragic case, IMO, almost a Greek tragedy. Please realize he is now around 70, and while he holds a very notable commemorative chair at a prestigious university, he gained his fame decades ago for work that really wasn't about climatology.
I am not criticizing the man for his (long) past scientific contributions, but what he has done lately, which has been more an ideological pursuit than those who use him (like Heartland) will admit.
The opinion piece to which you linked includes many claims, which Lindzen intentionally writes to make sound like scientific claims, yet are offered without proof. This is a classic form of propaganda writing, where the author uses the form of an argument to impress the reader, rather than proving the assertions. He throws in a handful of references to scientific literature as if that proves his point. However, simply citing the existence of a paper is quite a bit different than using the results of said paper as part of logical case in developing one's own argument.
For example, Lindzen sites Ramanathan's aerosol work (and I've linked to a presentation by Dr. Ramanathan before, here at LGF, discussing his aerosol work) but Lindzen misleads the reader into thinking that aerosols ought to be warming the planet over the past decade, rather than cooling it.
Without a doubt, AGW is second only to evolution as a demonized field of research by ideologues in this country (particularly this country.) Which is one of the reasons I spend time here countering some of the political poo that is getting flung at scientists who work in the field of climatology.
| 269 |
JacksonTn Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:10:06am |
I think this will put me to sleep ... I hope ...
"Us" and "Them" ... Pink Floyd ...
Thank you for the refuge during many hard times in the last year ... I may not be able to express myself the way I would really like (because some of ya'll are SO FRIGGIN SMART) but I hope that ya'll understand that the pain for many of us has been strong and it takes time to get past differences and on to other more important things ... together ...
Good Night Ya'll and for some ... Good Morning ...
| 270 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:10:37am |
re: #263 HelloDare
I take your point.
Obviously an article in a public journal has not passed peer review. Okay, where is it at fault?
What exactly has Lindzen said that you object to?
What I object to is it's lack of peer review. It cannot be evaluated as science outside of that context.
Let me know when he gets work accepted in a professional journal.
| 271 |
freetoken Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:10:38am |
One change to my previous essay:
he gained his fame decades ago for work that really wasn't about climatology.
would be more accurate is stated as:
he gained his fame decades ago for work that really wasn't about global warming.
| 272 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:11:00am |
re: #266 littleoldlady
French, assuming I spelled it right.
/BIG assumption! ;-)
According to Obama..."alls we can say is, mer-see bo-KOO!"
| 273 |
littleoldlady Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:12:06am |
| 274 |
BatGuano Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:12:45am |
re: #246 littleoldlady
Damn! I'm late. My wife was talking.
| 275 |
Daffy Duck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:16:14am |
re: #262 gmsc
The worst part about the quiz is how you feel when you see the answers you missed.
It's especially funny to see people who missed "arm" or "leg".
Well, I got 7 of them (but I started after you'd posted "arm" and "leg," but I'm also counting on the fact that I would have named those, anyway.
And, I would have scored 8, if you would have accepted "ass."
| 276 |
BignJames Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:16:25am |
| 277 |
gmsc Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:16:39am |
Speaking of not checking your work:
Did they ever learn? No they never learned…
July 30, 2009, 04:47 PM — IDG News Service —San Francisco’s ambitious plans to roll out computerized smart parking meters have hit a snag: They can be hacked for free parking.
Security researchers say that it is easy for a technically savvy hacker to make a fake payment card that gives them unlimited free parking…
Well, you can’t blame the dumb bastards … it’s not as if this was a known sort of security flaw in cheap-ass, stupidly-implemented, government-purchased payment systems.(subject line hattip)
| 278 |
littleoldlady Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:17:58am |
re: #272 TheMatrix31
I took French every year from 3rd grade to my first year in college. NEVER any good at it, because when you are foreign-language-impaired that's ... what you are.
/I get every 3rd word
//MAYBE
///on a good day
Merde on Obama!
| 279 |
gmsc Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:18:20am |
re: #275 Daffy Duck
Well, I got 7 of them (but I started after you'd posted "arm" and "leg," but I'm also counting on the fact that I would have named those, anyway.
And, I would have scored 8, if you would have accepted "ass."
Yeah, but then I would've had to accept "tit", as well.
| 280 |
Gus Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:19:30am |
re: #268 freetoken
The article's title:
Resisting Climate Hysteria, by Richard Lindzen - Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Atmospheric Sciences at M.I.T.
A Case Against Precipitous Climate Action
I haven't read it by assume he is not exactly arguing against AGW but against precipitous climate action.
Or the final paragraph which read:
With all this at stake, one can readily suspect that there might be a sense of urgency provoked by the possibility that warming may have ceased and that the case for such warming as was seen being due in significant measure to man, disintegrating. For those committed to the more venal agendas, the need to act soon, before the public appreciates the situation, is real indeed. However, for more serious leaders, the need to courageously resist hysteria is clear. Wasting resources on symbolically fighting ever present climate change is no substitute for prudence. Nor is the assumption that the earth’s climate reached a point of perfection in the middle of the twentieth century a sign of intelligence.
This is about policy not science.
| 281 |
BignJames Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:19:53am |
re: #278 littleoldlady
How can you learn a language that's got the descriptive after the subject?
| 283 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:22:16am |
re: #278 littleoldlady
I took French every year from 3rd grade to my first year in college. NEVER any good at it, because when you are foreign-language-impaired that's ... what you are.
/I get every 3rd word
//MAYBE
///on a good dayMerde on Obama!
I'll stick to English and Armenian.
| 284 |
UncleRancher Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:22:41am |
re: #268 freetoken
Things do slip past peer review, so that in itself is not a guarantee of accuracy. If one is to effectively counter an assertion, that counter should be in the form of counterexample by measurable quantity that can be verified by others. When measuring big things over long periods of time, as in climate issues, one has to be very careful that localized changes around the measurement points are not disturbed. Cities grow, trees grow, and the effects of these changes definitely affect measurements of temperature.
| 285 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:24:12am |
re: #276 BignJames
re: #271 freetoken
I know technology has come a long way in the last 30 years...but how has AGW managed to supplant the dominant view of an impending ice age...in only 30 years?
Actually, that was never the dominant scientific view; this is a canard. It was put forward by a very few climatologists and - during peer review - was found to be lacking. It never enjoyed wide support within the scientific community.
There was lots of hype about it in the media, helped along by a couple of unusually cold winters in the eastern US. But it was never a matter of scientific consensus or anything close to it.
| 286 |
BatGuano Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:24:15am |
re: #262 gmsc
I took your bogus quiz and got six. I can't believe "dik" is not a body part!
| 287 |
gmsc Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:24:58am |
re: #286 BatGuano
I took your bogus quiz and got six. I can't believe "dik" is not a body part!
I'm not even sure it's a word!
| 288 |
gmsc Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:25:37am |
Jesus' latest appearance? In cheeseburger grease!
/Praise cheeses!
| 289 |
Gus Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:26:30am |
re: #288 gmsc
Jesus' latest appearance? In cheeseburger grease!
/Praise cheeses!
Cheeseburger in paradise?
//
| 291 |
gmsc Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:27:59am |
| 292 |
HelloDare Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:28:27am |
re: #268 freetoken
I appreciate your reply. I am not a scientist. I hope you can understand why "It's not published in a peer reviewed journal" seems like an inappropriate response when the article claimed so much that I assumed could be easily refuted if not true.
| 293 |
littleoldlady Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:28:28am |
Okay, I need to remove my tuchas (not French, not 3 letters) from this chair...
I need a CLONE of me to keep up! :-(
Good day, ALL!™
| 294 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:28:31am |
re: #284 UncleRancher
Things do slip past peer review, so that in itself is not a guarantee of accuracy.
True. But it is by far the strongest guarantee of accuracy that exists. It has proven remarkably good at quickly weeding out unproductive and outright false hypotheses, and at identifying viable ones, for a couple of centuries now. Nothing even remotely as accurate or efficient has been found.
| 295 |
Gus Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:28:46am |
| 296 |
gmsc Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:29:57am |
re: #293 littleoldlady
Okay, I need to remove my tuchas (not French, not 3 letters) from this chair...
I need a CLONE of me to keep up! :-(
Good day, ALL!™
Take care!
Good idea.
Good night, all!
| 299 |
UncleRancher Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:31:51am |
re: #293 littleoldlady
Okay, I need to remove my tuchas (not French, not 3 letters) from this chair...
I need a CLONE of me to keep up! :-(
Good day, ALL!™
Take care, and thanks for the snack.
| 300 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:32:00am |
re: #288 gmsc
Jesus' latest appearance? In cheeseburger grease!
/Praise cheeses!
We had a silhouette of the Virgin Mary in Clearwater that lasted about 4 weeks. Clearwater is already over populated, traffic was a nightmare. Then in the small town I lived in, there was the Virgin Mary on the side of a church right in from of my dentist office. Must have been real. I can't remember saying JESUS CHRIST so many times trying to get out of there.
| 301 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:32:39am |
re: #293 littleoldlady
Okay, I need to remove my tuchas (not French, not 3 letters) from this chair...
I need a CLONE of me to keep up! :-(
Good day, ALL!™
Take it easy!
| 303 |
BignJames Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:34:46am |
re: #285 SixDegrees
And you're telling me that the scientific community has now reached concensus regarding AGW? Based on what...the IPCC?
| 305 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:36:35am |
| 306 |
Areozol Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:39:27am |
Well, the first English entry in my blog is online.
Its just a announcement, but today I'll post something more interesting. :)
| 307 |
BatGuano Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:40:14am |
re: #285 SixDegrees
Actually, that was never the dominant scientific view; this is a canard. It was put forward by a very few climatologists and - during peer review - was found to be lacking. It never enjoyed wide support within the scientific community.
There was lots of hype about it in the media, helped along by a couple of unusually cold winters in the eastern US. But it was never a matter of scientific consensus or anything close to it.
I was taught about the imminent ice age in 1966, in elementary school. When did the literature right itself?
| 308 |
freetoken Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:40:56am |
re: #263 HelloDare
BTW, I don't want to imply that I think you shouldn't put up links you think are important. And, you put the Lindzen piece in the category ("opinion") that fits it best.
| 309 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:42:18am |
re: #303 BignJames
And you're telling me that the scientific community has now reached concensus regarding AGW? Based on what...the IPCC?
You seem to enjoy putting words in other people's mouths. I never said any such thing. What I said was that there was never a scientific consensus on an impending ice age, as you stated.
You can judge for yourself whether there is consensus by picking up any of a number of peer-reviewed journals and reading over pertinent articles over any period of time you care to consider. Science, Nature, Climatology Research, and Weather would probably provide a good starting point, but there are many others to choose from, and any good library will have years worth of back issues available for your perusal.
| 310 |
Gus Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:42:46am |
re: #307 BatGuano
I was taught about the imminent ice age in 1966, in elementary school. When did the literature right itself?
What's the scientific consensus regarding species survival over 10s of millennia?
| 312 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:45:34am |
re: #307 BatGuano
I was taught about the imminent ice age in 1966, in elementary school. When did the literature right itself?
The scientific literature never supported such a claim. As already noted, there was a brief flurry of papers on the topic, but the predictions made didn't stand up to peer examination.
This was in the late 1970s to early 1980s. I'm not aware of any such claims being made in the 60s, but if you can point me to some references I'd be interested in taking a look at them.
| 313 |
Gus Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:46:25am |
| 314 |
BignJames Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:46:33am |
re: #309 SixDegrees
What I'm trying to do is determine your opinon of AGW...is it real?...is it a threat?
| 315 |
UncleRancher Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:49:14am |
In all these climate change issues I have to ask the question, do the things I read comport with the observations I can make by stepping out the back door?
When the ice age thing was going on 30 years ago we had one cold night at -55F. It has never been as cold here since. At the beginning of the global warming hysteria we had one summer day at +122F, and the concrete roadway down the hill from me buckled up and blocked traffic until they brought in jackhammers and broke up that section. It has not been that hot since. Both of those events correlate well with the solar sunspot cycle. For the past two years we have had more cold days and more snow in the winter than over the past ten years. We are at a solar minimum right now, and it is a deep one.
Those are personal observations. I was there. I did not keep a record of temperature measurements by thermometer. Those were not peer reviewed, except by everyone in my age bracket. That does not make the observations any less valid.
When I step outside and spend 4 hours shoveling my driveway enough so I can get my 4-wheel drive rig through the snow, and then turn on the TV and find that we have a global warming crisis, I just have to shake my head and wonder where these people are coming from. Not from around here, that's for sure.
| 316 |
BatGuano Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:51:01am |
re: #312 SixDegrees
Can't do it, sir. My teachers from that era are probably senile or dead now. I'm saying that that was the prevailing theory of the time. I went to many schools in many states in the 1960's and that is what was taught. I was unable to Google at the time.
| 317 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:52:34am |
re: #314 BignJames
What I'm trying to do is determine your opinon of AGW...is it real?...is it a threat?
I haven't commented on my own opinion of global warming. My concern is the distortion of the scientific process, the substitution of popular opinion in place of scientific proof, and the promotion of scientific mythology that never took place. In short, I'd like to see the debate conducted based on fact instead of deception. It doesn't do either side's argument any good if it relies on wild distortions and outright lies. And given that the argument is framed as a scientific one, it ought to be conducted within the accepted scientific framework - not on the op-ed page.
| 318 |
UncleRancher Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:54:18am |
re: #317 SixDegrees
Follow the money. That's what it's all about.
| 319 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:56:01am |
re: #317 SixDegrees
I haven't commented on my own opinion of global warming. My concern is the distortion of the scientific process, the substitution of popular opinion in place of scientific proof, and the promotion of scientific mythology that never took place. In short, I'd like to see the debate conducted based on fact instead of deception. It doesn't do either side's argument any good if it relies on wild distortions and outright lies. And given that the argument is framed as a scientific one, it ought to be conducted within the accepted scientific framework - not on the op-ed page.
I like the idea, but those doing the study shouldn't be attached to a university or some other entity that can gain financially. I always say follow the money. It's sad but true.
| 320 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:57:07am |
re: #316 BatGuano
Can't do it, sir. My teachers from that era are probably senile or dead now. I'm saying that that was the prevailing theory of the time. I went to many schools in many states in the 1960's and that is what was taught. I was unable to Google at the time.
I'm about the same age, and I don't remember such a thing being taught. I've never run across it in any other reading, either.
It's been known for a very long time that ice ages are cyclical; the evidence for repeated glaciation and thawing is extensive and is not in dispute. But the only dire warnings of an an impending ice age lurking just around the corner were those flogged by the popular press in the late 70s/early 80s as far as I'm aware. And I'm not aware of any such hypothesis gaining any serious traction in the scientific community at any time.
| 321 |
BignJames Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:57:15am |
re: #317 SixDegrees
Well said...and I agree. I'm skeptical...mainly because of the hysteria displayed in some parts. There has always been a sector of society that is driven to control others...politics change...the desire to control doesn't.
| 322 |
Gus Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:58:18am |
re: #317 SixDegrees
I haven't commented on my own opinion of global warming. My concern is the distortion of the scientific process, the substitution of popular opinion in place of scientific proof, and the promotion of scientific mythology that never took place. In short, I'd like to see the debate conducted based on fact instead of deception. It doesn't do either side's argument any good if it relies on wild distortions and outright lies. And given that the argument is framed as a scientific one, it ought to be conducted within the accepted scientific framework - not on the op-ed page.
On scientific grounds it would have to meet accepted guidelines. However, the overall debate encompasses policy which has a place in the op-ed page. If we get to the point were we ignore how policy decisions are made on the grounds of isolated scientific ground in the back rooms of congressional offices that would not reflect a true democracy. We cannot create policy based on scientific ground alone. It cannot be done in the manner of "if the scientists say it the right thing to do then we must do it." Otherwise we become a technocracy of sorts.
| 323 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:00:25am |
re: #319 Cannadian Club Akbar
I like the idea, but those doing the study shouldn't be attached to a university or some other entity that can gain financially. I always say follow the money. It's sad but true.
Research takes money. No matter who does it. But facts are facts, and evidence that doesn't hold up doesn't survive peer review. You can't buy scientific consensus.
| 324 |
BignJames Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:03:11am |
re: #323 SixDegrees
Research takes money. No matter who does it. But facts are facts, and evidence that doesn't hold up doesn't survive peer review. You can't buy scientific consensus.
Mr. Hansen certainly got a lot of folks on his bandwagon...I'm not implying he bought them...but there was an awful lot of "rubber stamping" going on.
| 325 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:03:49am |
re: #322 Gus 802
On scientific grounds it would have to meet accepted guidelines. However, the overall debate encompasses policy which has a place in the op-ed page. If we get to the point were we ignore how policy decisions are made on the grounds of isolated scientific ground in the back rooms of congressional offices that would not reflect a true democracy. We cannot create policy based on scientific ground alone. It cannot be done in the manner of "if the scientists say it the right thing to do then we must do it." Otherwise we become a technocracy of sorts.
Science provides the surest basis for making fact-based decisions about how the physical world works. I agree that there are aspects of societal and political decisions that fall outside this scope. But the argument being made here is a scientific one, and that portion of the investigation needs to remain firmly within the scientific realm.
If the facts and theories themselves are going to be disputed, however, that clearly lies wholly within the scope of science right from the get go.
| 326 |
BatGuano Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:04:53am |
re: #320 SixDegrees
I respect your opinion and can only reply that that what I was taught in that period. It was hyped in the 70's and dissipated in the '80's to be replaced by global warming.
| 327 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:06:01am |
re: #323 SixDegrees
Research takes money. No matter who does it. But facts are facts, and evidence that doesn't hold up doesn't survive peer review. You can't buy scientific consensus.
I didn't say reseach doesn't need money. But I don't want some shill for GE, who is trying to corner the green energy market, stacking the deck.
| 328 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:07:00am |
re: #324 BignJames
Mr. Hansen certainly got a lot of folks on his bandwagon...I'm not implying he bought them...but there was an awful lot of "rubber stamping" going on.
Again: my concern here is solely with the scientific aspects of this issue. I'm not particularly interested in what occurs outside of that scope; over the long haul, the facts are going to win out no matter what people want.
| 329 |
UncleRancher Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:07:09am |
re: #326 BatGuano
I respect your opinion and can only reply that that what I was taught in that period. It was hyped in the 70's and dissipated in the '80's to be replaced by global warming.
I remember the hysteria was more about a nuclear winter scenario. I thought at the time that the nuclear winter people and the global warming people should get together over a beer and work things out.
| 330 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:08:26am |
re: #326 BatGuano
I respect your opinion and can only reply that that what I was taught in that period. It was hyped in the 70's and dissipated in the '80's to be replaced by global warming.
Yes, but that's not a scientific problem; that's a media problem. Again, there was never any scientific consensus that an ice age was looming.
| 331 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:10:32am |
re: #327 Cannadian Club Akbar
I didn't say reseach doesn't need money. But I don't want some shill for GE, who is trying to corner the green energy market, stacking the deck.
And the peer review process is the best mechanism for ensuring such a thing doesn't happen, because it rests on a foundation of fact-based criticism.
| 333 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:12:11am |
re: #330 SixDegrees
Yes, but that's not a scientific problem; that's a media problem. Again, there was never any scientific consensus that an ice age was looming.
Agreed with the media problem. Problem is, when scientist come to a conclusion, who are they gonna tell? We can't count on everyone to read a report, so they will listen to Katie Couric, CNN, etc.
| 334 |
Gus Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:15:47am |
re: #325 SixDegrees
Science provides the surest basis for making fact-based decisions about how the physical world works. I agree that there are aspects of societal and political decisions that fall outside this scope. But the argument being made here is a scientific one, and that portion of the investigation needs to remain firmly within the scientific realm.
If the facts and theories themselves are going to be disputed, however, that clearly lies wholly within the scope of science right from the get go.
Right. Science is a tool and a very good one. In fact one of the best tools known to man. The question becomes how we use that science to create policy. Which of course is by now an ancient question which also applies to technology.
As a pedestrian in the general scheme of things I tend to apply a 50/50 principle regarding application of science and populist driven policy. Science is the foundation for this matter but for policy we should apply 50% of the worst case scenario and 50% of the best case scenario -- or some such percentage.
Given that we are (allegedly at this time) a free market society whatever policy is made has to work within that established model. Cap and trade, overt Federal mandates and programs as well as tax schemes should not be policy. It should be done within a for-profit model utilizing a free enterprise system.
| 335 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:16:00am |
I predict the day a final report comes out you will see this:
CNN, MSNBC, ABC, and CBS will broadcast with anchors in shorts because it is so hot out.
FOX NEWS, they will be wearing Parkas
Maureen Dowd, OTOH, will still be a bitch.
| 336 |
BignJames Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:16:20am |
re: #329 UncleRancher
I remember the hysteria was more about a nuclear winter scenario. I thought at the time that the nuclear winter people and the global warming people should get together over a beer and work things out.
Yeah, and they just like, totally ignored the killer asteroids, man.
| 337 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:16:32am |
Sam Malone: [musing about the possibility of Sam asking Diane to marry him] What would your answer be?
Diane Chambers: Ah, no, Sam, that's the sort of question that has to be asked before it can be answered.
Sam Malone: Well, if I heard the answer, maybe it would be easier for me to ask the question.
Diane Chambers: Very well. The answer's no.
Sam Malone: Well then the question was, "Have you ever met a man who gave you the hots more than me?"
Diane Chambers: I'd like to change my answer.
Sam Malone: Fine, fine.
Diane Chambers: Then the answer is yes.
Sam Malone: Well then the question was, "Do you want to go to bed with me?"
Diane Chambers: I want to change my answer again.
Sam Malone: Well that's OK, and I'll change my question too. "Is there any way you would not object to not going to bed with me?"
Diane Chambers: [Diane thinks for a second] Wait a minute...
| 340 |
UncleRancher Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:21:21am |
I have to run, lizards. I have a bunch of Zs to stack. And NO, I certainly don't accept the hockey stick. Totally bogus. Does not comport with observation.
| 341 |
BatGuano Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:22:44am |
re: #340 UncleRancher
G'night Uncle. hockey stick is an embarrassment to science.
| 342 |
Daffy Duck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:23:12am |
re: #336 BignJames
Yeah, and they just like, totally ignored the killer asteroids, man.
Unfortunately, the "let's make an atrocious movie" executives can't ignore the killer asteroids / comets...
| 343 |
Gus Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:25:15am |
re: #341 BatGuano
G'night Uncle. hockey stick is an embarrassment to science.
Careful now. You know that climate scientists are the new clergy.
/
| 344 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:26:38am |
re: #339 BatGuano
Matrix, You not been idle!
I know, I just knocked out like 8 episodes of Cheers...its almost time to shower and stuff
| 345 |
BignJames Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:28:08am |
re: #342 Daffy Duck
Unfortunately, the "let's make an atrocious movie" executives can't ignore the killer asteroids / comets...
Y'know, they can and do make atrocious movies with good material...I don't know how they stay in bidness.
| 346 |
BatGuano Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:28:34am |
re: #344 TheMatrix31
You are a perspicacious and discerning youg'n.
| 348 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:30:57am |
| 349 |
BatGuano Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:31:05am |
re: #343 Gus 802
fuck the politically motivated scientists and their zombie-like proselytes.
No offense to Zombie.
| 350 |
BatGuano Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:33:45am |
re: #348 TheMatrix31
Hell Yeah! It's a classic. GREAT writing, exquisite performances and funny as hell. I'm impressed that you appreciate it.
| 351 |
jvic Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:33:57am |
re: #331 SixDegrees
re: #327 Cannadian Club AkbarI didn't say reseach doesn't need money. But I don't want some shill for GE, who is trying to corner the green energy market, stacking the deck.
And the peer review process is the best mechanism for ensuring such a thing doesn't happen, because it rests on a foundation of fact-based criticism.
Excuse this drive-by comment to a serious ongoing discussion. Unfortunately I can't stay.
The Earth's climate is different in kind from the reproducible isolated systems I dealt with in my high school science labs. IMO it's quite a stretch to say that we've learned enough from building-block science to handle the climate's complexity (especially given the possible responses of the biosphere).
However, because afaik warming is harder to reverse than cooling given our present geotechnology, I have very grudgingly concluded that we should pay attention to the AGW alarmists. Notwithstanding that they threaten to burn out my BS detector.
| 353 |
Gus Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:34:59am |
re: #349 BatGuano
fuck the politically motivated scientists and their zombie-like proselytes.
No offense to Zombie.
I hear you. Outside of the so called scientific reasoning I can't tell if it's a fashion statement or just another round of cultural hysteria. I'm sitting here unable to sleep because I'm down to my last dollars. Last thing on my mind is this so called global warming.
| 354 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:40:09am |
re: #350 BatGuano
Hell Yeah! It's a classic. GREAT writing, exquisite performances and funny as hell. I'm impressed that you appreciate it.
EASILY one of my favorite shows of all-time. I think I like its' "counterpart" Wings more though.
| 355 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:40:25am |
| 356 |
BatGuano Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:41:38am |
re: #353 Gus 802
IF there was global warming we would be able to deal with it; to adjust. But don't impoverish us based on specious science. And, once again, fuck the politically motivated "scientists'.
| 357 |
Gus Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:44:32am |
re: #356 BatGuano
IF there was global warming we would be able to deal with it; to adjust. But don't impoverish us based on specious science. And, once again, fuck the politically motivated "scientists'.
They're also financially motivated as you know. If you want to get funding or a grant you tow the AGW party line. A lot of people don't want admit that and talk about scientists like they are these perfect humans not unlike Spock but that's not true. They might not get easily demonized industry funding but they get their funding from The State.
| 358 |
BatGuano Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:44:42am |
re: #354 TheMatrix31
EASILY one of my favorite shows of all-time. I think I like its' "counterpart" Wings more though.
Wings was funny as hell. I especially liked Thomas Hayden church and Tony Shalub.
| 359 |
Daffy Duck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:46:47am |
re: #349 BatGuano
I don't think that the typical scientist is politically motivated first-and-foremost. Scientists are geeks. We enjoy the collection and analysis of data. I agree w/ SixDegrees, in that the main problem in this argument, and others re: scientific info, is media (and political) misunderstanding and misrepresenation of data into speculative conclusions.
| 360 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:47:06am |
re: #358 BatGuano
Wings was funny as hell. I especially liked Thomas Hayden church and Tony Shalub.
Same here. Just two pure classics. Not surprising, since they both occur in the same "universe", as well. I'm slowwwly starting to get into Frasier too. DLed the first season and watch when the mood strikes me.
I'm also trying to watch Two And A Half Men which is also related to Andy Ackerman, who has ties to Cheers, Wings, Seinfeld, and Curb Your Enthusiasm.
| 361 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:51:24am |
re: #359 Daffy Duck
I don't think that the typical scientist is politically motivated first-and-foremost. Scientists are geeks. We enjoy the collection and analysis of data. I agree w/ SixDegrees, in that the main problem in this argument, and others re: scientific info, is media (and political) misunderstanding and misrepresenation of data into speculative conclusions.
Understood. But if I busted my ass to do a study and then someone on TV or in the newpapers misrepresented my findings, I would be out in front jumping up and down.
| 362 |
Jim in Virginia Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:53:22am |
Morning all. Reading Professor Gates' statement after the beer summit, his shift in tone is amazing- from "This could happen to any person of color or any poor person" (or any tenured Harvard professor with a six figure income) to "I respect the challenges police officers face every day..."
Sergeant Crowley is a stand up guy. No problem telling the press "That's a private matter." I wonder, did he- or the police association- threaten a lawsuit, and have the evidence that there was no question they would win? hier jobs."
| 363 |
Gus Fri, Jul 31, 2009 3:59:49am |
re: #359 Daffy Duck
I don't think that the typical scientist is politically motivated first-and-foremost. Scientists are geeks. We enjoy the collection and analysis of data. I agree w/ SixDegrees, in that the main problem in this argument, and others re: scientific info, is media (and political) misunderstanding and misrepresenation of data into speculative conclusions.
AGW is a scientific trend. Scientists work for institutions. Institutions are by and large political. These institutions are typically universities. At the same time, scientists belong to a definable social group. People within such groups adhere to norms acceptable within that group and part of that norm is to advance and fund AGW research.
| 364 |
BatGuano Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:00:14am |
re: #359 Daffy Duck
The scientific press does blow things way out of proportion, witness a new "missing link"; always a fossil of a previously known species that lived millions of years ago that does not add to our knowledge. As a corollary,a scientist who finds a fossil and says it links dinosaurs to birds. In both cases they are trying to hype a pedestrian story into something more.
| 365 |
Sharmuta Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:00:20am |
I was having a drink myself during the beer summit, and loved cnn's countdown clock (oh brother) and then they started talking about the stock market. WTF?! Who cares about the stock market?! ///
Then they interviewed Minnesota governor Tim Pawlenty. There wasn't any sound in the bar, but it looked like he wasn't too kind to Sarah Palin. I have two words for Governor Pawlenty should he be considering a run for the nomination: bridge collapse.
| 366 |
Jim in Virginia Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:02:10am |
re: #365 Sharmuta
It was the engineers' fault.
///
| 367 |
Gus Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:02:19am |
re: #364 BatGuano
The scientific press does blow things way out of proportion, witness a new "missing link"; always a fossil of a previously known species that lived millions of years ago that does not add to our knowledge. As a corollary,a scientist who finds a fossil and says it links dinosaurs to birds. In both cases they are trying to hype a pedestrian story into something more.
They have a word for that in other fields: publicity.
| 369 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:05:49am |
re: #366 Jim in Virginia
It was the engineers' fault.
///
Don't blame the engineers. That's bird shit.
/
| 370 |
Gus Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:06:26am |
re: #368 BatGuano
Amen, Gus.
It reminds me of architects that design a new building and talk as if though they've saved the world.
| 373 |
pink freud Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:12:11am |
Realwest hasn't posted all week ...has anyone heard from him?
| 374 |
Sharmuta Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:12:32am |
re: #366 Jim in Virginia
There is plenty of blame to go around, that's for sure, but that bridge should have been closed by at least two state administrations. Regardless- he will be tarred with that brush whether right or wrong, which is why I said it. Frankly- I think it's why he wasn't selected for the VP slot and Sarah got it instead.
Oh- and I hope you're well Jim. Always good to see & talk to you.
| 375 |
Daffy Duck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:14:07am |
re: #363 Gus 802
AGW is a scientific trend. Scientists work for institutions. Institutions are by and large political. These institutions are typically universities. At the same time, scientists belong to a definable social group. People within such groups adhere to norms acceptable within that group and part of that norm is to advance and fund AGW research.
AGW is a socio-political trend - like a lot of things.
I accept that people use the "follow the money" logic. On the flip-side, AGW proponents also use the same logic re: AGW skeptics - "follow the money," this time to Big Oil, or some other industrial bogeyman. The source of funding should matter little if the data / jouranl articles are properly peer-reveiwed. If that is so, then the data is data, and has no bias.
Media, political groups, and politicians distort the data - amplify what they want to amplify, and ignore what they chose to ignore.
| 376 |
BatGuano Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:14:08am |
re: #373 pink freud
Realwest hasn't posted all week ...has anyone heard from him?
Hi Pink. He has not posted in a while I hope everything is ok.
| 377 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:14:15am |
Good Morning Pink...I responded to your question about how the finals went when I woke up from my nap but I guess you weren't around. They went like I expected, "meh" on the persuasive communications one, and pretty well for the foreign policy one.
| 378 |
Gus Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:14:23am |
Here you go.
National Science Foundation Grant Proposal form. Don't forget your Dear Colleague Letter.
1. Dear Colleague Letter
Dear Colleague letters are intended to provide general information to the community, clarify or amend an existing policy or document, or inform the NSF proposer community about upcoming opportunities or special competitions for supplements to existing awards. In addition, they are often used to draw attention to an impending change in NSF policies or programs.
[Link: www.nsf.gov...]
NSF is structured much like a university, with grants-funding divisions/offices for the various disciplines and fields of science and engineering and for science, math, engineering and technology education. NSF also uses a variety of management mechanisms to coordinate research in areas that cross traditional disciplinary boundaries. The Foundation is assisted by advisors from the scientific and engineering communities who serve on formal committees or as ad hoc reviewers of proposals. This advisory system, which focuses on both program directions and specific proposals, involves approximately 50,000 scientists and engineers each year. NSF staff members who are experts in a certain field or area make award recommendations; PIs receive unattributed verbatim copies of peer reviews.
| 379 |
callahan23 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:15:16am |
Hello Lizardia - posting from work - hope the students don't interrupt me all too much ;-)
| 380 |
pink freud Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:16:06am |
re: #377 TheMatrix31
Well ...good! It feels great to have that behind you, doesn't it? You're free! So when do you guys leave for vacation?
| 381 |
callahan23 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:16:16am |
re: #373 pink freud
Realwest hasn't posted all week ...has anyone heard from him?
No comment seen no email received. I hope he is well.
| 382 |
pink freud Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:16:37am |
re: #376 BatGuano
Hi Pink. He has not posted in a while I hope everything is ok.
Me, too BG. Not like him at all.
| 383 |
pink freud Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:17:22am |
re: #379 callahan23
Hello Lizardia - posting from work - hope the students don't interrupt me all too much ;-)
Goodmorning good sir! :-)
| 385 |
Sharmuta Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:17:37am |
re: #373 pink freud
Realwest hasn't posted all week ...has anyone heard from him?
Is he having treatments? Maybe he's too tired? I hope he's alright- maybe someone should email him.
| 387 |
callahan23 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:18:50am |
| 388 |
pink freud Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:19:13am |
re: #385 Sharmuta
Is he having treatments? Maybe he's too tired? I hope he's alright- maybe someone should email him.
Last post was that he was turning over the prayer list to wahabbicorridor. I hope that's all it is. It's just so unlike him not to pop in for so long.
| 389 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:21:15am |
re: #373 pink freud
Realwest hasn't posted all week ...has anyone heard from him?
I haven't seen 3Wood either.
| 390 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:21:15am |
re: #373 pink freud
Realwest hasn't posted all week ...has anyone heard from him?
I thought I saw him earlier this week dropping a quick line to someone. Either way, I emailed him. Told him all Lizards prayers are with him.
| 391 |
callahan23 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:21:17am |
| 392 |
pink freud Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:21:49am |
| 393 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:22:18am |
re: #380 pink freud
Well ...good! It feels great to have that behind you, doesn't it? You're free! So when do you guys leave for vacation?
Feels great...we leave on the 8th!
Shower time.
| 394 |
pink freud Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:22:57am |
re: #391 callahan23
Hope you are good M'lady! ;-)
As well as can be expected, my friend. I do *not* like the crack of dawn! LOL
| 395 |
pink freud Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:23:27am |
| 396 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:24:22am |
re: #392 pink freud
Yes, same here. Killian Bundy, too.
Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.
(sorry, that just popped into my head. but it will not dislodge the FRACKIN' GILLIGANS ISLAND THEME SONG THAT IS RAGING THROUGH MY BRAIN!)
| 397 |
Sharmuta Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:25:14am |
re: #388 pink freud
I don't want to sound morbid, but my guess is RW has something in place so that we'd know if the worst came to pass. If that's true, then it's better we not hear anything, you know? Regardless, those of us who pray should think to say something for him. I hope he's just getting some rest.
| 398 |
pink freud Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:25:52am |
re: #396 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.
(sorry, that just popped into my head. but it will not dislodge the FRACKIN' GILLIGANS ISLAND THEME SONG THAT IS RAGING THROUGH MY BRAIN!)
Too funny! Same here. Charles can be diabolical with this stuff. First piece of info to hit my brain this morning ...the theme song from Gilligan's Island. It'll be with me all day now. :-)
| 399 |
pink freud Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:27:13am |
re: #397 Sharmuta
I don't want to sound morbid, but my guess is RW has something in place so that we'd know if the worst came to pass. If that's true, then it's better we not hear anything, you know? Regardless, those of us who pray should think to say something for him. I hope he's just getting some rest.
*Sigh*
I know, Sharm, but I am still worried about him. He was the first one in my prayers last night.
| 400 |
callahan23 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:28:06am |
re: #392 pink freud
Yes, same here. Killian Bundy, too.
Killian Bundy posted last on the overnight Sun. - Mon. , I hope they're all well.
| 402 |
Sharmuta Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:31:27am |
re: #399 pink freud
You're thoughtful. Keep praying, because last night I was offering prayers of thanksgiving that my previous prayers for a friend had been answered. So- He is listening.
| 403 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:31:47am |
re: #397 Sharmuta
The people who don't pray, could even throw up a word to "Athie", couldn't they?
| 404 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:32:48am |
re: #398 pink freud
(I hope the SOB is humming it in his sleep.)
/
| 405 |
pink freud Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:34:04am |
re: #402 Sharmuta
You're thoughtful. Keep praying, because last night I was offering prayers of thanksgiving that my previous prayers for a friend had been answered. So- He is listening.
Yes, of that I have no doubt, Sharm. I'm glad things turned out well for your friend.
| 406 |
callahan23 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:34:49am |
re: #403 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
The people who don't pray, could even throw up a word to "Athie", couldn't they?
Guess what, something very similar. Well wishes, thinking a lot of the persons and telling those who pray to consider doin' it. ther is no Athie ;-)
| 407 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:35:19am |
I'll show Charles. I'll just substitute the "Amazing Grace" lyrics in the Gilligan song. Or Stairway to Heaven.
I've heard both.
| 408 |
pink freud Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:35:33am |
I'm gotta run, everyone. I hope someone's heard something when I return.
Enjoy your day, folks!
| 409 |
Sharmuta Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:35:44am |
re: #403 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I don't know. But it feels good when a prayer turns out the way you hoped it would. When I got the news yesterday from my friend I literally jumped for joy. It's very good news that's going to benefit everyone involved. We're celebrating tonight.
| 412 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:36:20am |
| 416 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:44:46am |
re: #397 Sharmuta
I don't want to sound morbid, but my guess is RW has something in place so that we'd know if the worst came to pass. If that's true, then it's better we not hear anything, you know? Regardless, those of us who pray should think to say something for him. I hope he's just getting some rest.
I have been thinking about him too. Has anyone emailed him?
| 417 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:46:16am |
| 418 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:48:15am |
Take it easy, Pink!
I miss 3Wood's daily updates, lol.
| 419 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:51:07am |
| 420 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:51:57am |
| 421 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:52:37am |
| 422 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:53:01am |
re: #420 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
He makes things easy to understand.
"A great lizard he is..."
-LGF Yoda
Precisely why I enjoy them so much. Economics matters are pretty damn complicated sometimes.
| 423 |
razorbacker Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:53:14am |
'Morning, Folks.
I see that less than a week after being instituted, the 'cash for clunkers' program is out of cash, and will either have to be ended or more money poured in.
*sigh*
Well. That's okay. I'm sure that the government will do a better job handling three hundred million plus people's health care.
Somebody might want to note that when you sudsidize something, you tend to get more of that thing, though.
It seems to be some kind of natural law, or something.
| 424 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:55:50am |
re: #375 Daffy Duck
AGW is a socio-political trend - like a lot of things.
I accept that people use the "follow the money" logic. On the flip-side, AGW proponents also use the same logic re: AGW skeptics - "follow the money," this time to Big Oil, or some other industrial bogeyman. The source of funding should matter little if the data / jouranl articles are properly peer-reveiwed. If that is so, then the data is data, and has no bias.
Media, political groups, and politicians distort the data - amplify what they want to amplify, and ignore what they chose to ignore.
Correct. Peer review is remarkably good at sifting out BS and getting at what's really going on.
| 426 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:56:53am |
re: #423 razorbacker
'Morning, Folks.
I see that less than a week after being instituted, the 'cash for clunkers' program is out of cash, and will either have to be ended or more money poured in.
*sigh*
Well. That's okay. I'm sure that the government will do a better job handling three hundred million plus people's health care.
Somebody might want to note that when you sudsidize something, you tend to get more of that thing, though.
It seems to be some kind of natural law, or something.
Doesn't it make you wonder what they thought would happen? If you had any inclination to upgrade your wheels, it was way too much of a good deal.
| 427 |
callahan23 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:57:18am |
| 428 |
Bloodnok Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:57:36am |
re: #423 razorbacker
'Morning, Folks.
I see that less than a week after being instituted, the 'cash for clunkers' program is out of cash, and will either have to be ended or more money poured in.
*sigh*
Well. That's okay. I'm sure that the government will do a better job handling three hundred million plus people's health care.
Somebody might want to note that when you sudsidize something, you tend to get more of that thing, though.
It seems to be some kind of natural law, or something.
I see that as a positive thing. They sold a lot of cars because of it and it was a victim of its own success. I don't trust the government to run anything, to be sure, but it seems this one thing got the desired effect. Anything that helps car dealerships sell cars is okay with me.
| 429 |
BatGuano Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:58:09am |
re: #423 razorbacker
Hey. Razar, who's the little boy in your avatar?
| 430 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:00:36am |
re: #423 razorbacker
'Morning, Folks.
I see that less than a week after being instituted, the 'cash for clunkers' program is out of cash, and will either have to be ended or more money poured in.
*sigh*
Well. That's okay. I'm sure that the government will do a better job handling three hundred million plus people's health care.
Somebody might want to note that when you sudsidize something, you tend to get more of that thing, though.
It seems to be some kind of natural law, or something.
Observation: the average life of a car is around three to four years before trade-in. Flooding the market with new cars is going to inevitably create a shortage of demand in the short term - just as the auto companies are emerging from bankruptcy and the recession. The result will be a delay in economic recovery. And a potential surge in demand in three or four years, just about when the various inflationary pressures now being created will begin to bear on the economy.
Distortions in the marketplace only amplify what the market is going to do anyway.
| 431 |
The Other Les Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:00:59am |
"We're fighter pilots, Bert. Maturity isn't in the job description."
-- First Lieutenant Ken "Barbie" Dahl, USAF
| 432 |
callahan23 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:01:49am |
I also need to run Lizards. Later in my evening I'll get back onboard, promise.
Happy posting to y'all.
| 433 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:02:18am |
re: #426 VioletTiger
Doesn't it make you wonder what they thought would happen? If you had any inclination to upgrade your wheels, it was way too much of a good deal.
Another problem: it has driven the cost of used cars out of the range of the poorest drivers. They're stuck driving really awful cars that they can't get rid of because they need them and can't afford a new car, trade-in or not.
| 434 |
razorbacker Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:03:29am |
re: #429 BatGuano
Hey. Razar, who's the little boy in your avatar?
It's me. A long, long time ago. My aunt sent me the photo a couple of weeks ago with a note, "I told people that you were cute once. Before you ruined it."
She's a nice lady, my aunt. There just isn't much call for nice ladies, anymore.
| 435 |
Mithrax Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:03:43am |
Fair mornin Lizardim,
For those who are thinking of getting married, save yourself the trouble and go to Vegas. Oy.
| 436 |
BlueCanuck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:04:24am |
Good morning all. To answer a few questions. I believe realwest is taking a break to gather his strength. Recall seeing something about that on Monday morning. I believe 3wood is on vacation. That's why there's no market updates or sports geek corner. Any way, what's up for weekend plans?
/enjoy your vacation Matrix.
| 437 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:04:50am |
re: #433 SixDegrees
Another problem: it has driven the cost of used cars out of the range of the poorest drivers. They're stuck driving really awful cars that they can't get rid of because they need them and can't afford a new car, trade-in or not.
I thought they were chopping up all the traded in cars, regardless?
| 438 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:05:42am |
re: #436 BlueCanuck
I was afraid 3Wood gave up on us because we are idiots.
When I say "we"; I mean us.
When I say "us"; I mean me.
| 440 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:07:19am |
re: #436 BlueCanuck
Good morning all. To answer a few questions. I believe realwest is taking a break to gather his strength. Recall seeing something about that on Monday morning. I believe 3wood is on vacation. That's why there's no market updates or sports geek corner. Any way, what's up for weekend plans?
/enjoy your vacation Matrix.
Thanks, BC. Hold off til next week for those wishes ;) Makes me feel like I'm goin' tomorrow!
As for the weekend? Probably nothing tonight, working tomorrow night, and BBQ sunday hopefully.
| 441 |
BlueCanuck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:07:35am |
re: #431 The Other Les
Rule 2: A sargeant in motion out ranks a lieutenant who doesn't know what's going on.
| 442 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:07:52am |
re: #438 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I was afraid 3Wood gave up on us because we are idiots.
When I say "we"; I mean us.
When I say "us"; I mean me.
You and your damn morning wood jokes. Now he won't come near us!!!
| 443 |
BlueCanuck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:08:38am |
re: #438 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
If your lucky one of these days he might respond with a 9iron. ;)
| 444 |
Spenser (with an S) Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:08:43am |
Morning, Lizards. We have a lot of problems up here in MI, but I'll stack our blueberries and cherries up against anyone's. Yum. Our family picked 34lbs. of blueberries last weekend. I think my kids are turning purple.
| 445 |
razorbacker Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:09:52am |
The thing about cash for clunkers is that is that it distorts the marketplace.
I notice that Chrysler offered double, up to $9k off. That harks back to the days of $5/gallon gas and the deals offered on big SUVs, when you could get a stickered $55K Excursion for $30K.
The value of anything is only what someone else will willingly pay for it.
Business is just that simple. All the rest is just piddling around the edges. You come up with a good or a service, and price it at what the market wants to pay. If it covers expenses, and lets you make a buck too boot, you're a success.
| 446 |
BlueCanuck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:10:49am |
re: #444 Spenser (with an S)
They're supposed to eat them, not wallow in them. That might be part of the problem. Quick question, are the berries wild or farm raised?
/wild are so much superior in flavour.
| 447 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:10:52am |
re: #444 Spenser (with an S)
Morning, Lizards. We have a lot of problems up here in MI, but I'll stack our blueberries and cherries up against anyone's. Yum. Our family picked 34lbs. of blueberries last weekend. I think my kids are turning purple.
Not too crazy about blueberries, but cherries are BY FAR my favorite fruit. I had some a few hours ago as my late night snack, but a bunch of them were bruised up. Too bad!
| 448 |
opnion Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:11:17am |
Good morning. I missed the Beer Summit thread so this oservation might already have bee made, why was Obama wiping his hand on his pants?
Dude, they have napkins at the White House.
| 449 |
The Other Les Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:13:12am |
re: #441 BlueCanuck
Rule 2: A sargeant in motion out ranks a lieutenant who doesn't know what's going on.
And then there's the classic:
"How do you feel about the word 'vaporize'?"
| 450 |
freetoken Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:13:15am |
I wish the spin-offs had an obit section.
The father of many of the most famous Olympus cameras died yesterday:
[Link: dc.watch.impress.co.jp...]
Ok, that is in Japanese, but here is an English review of his importance, and note of his passing:
Weekend Wrap: Who was Yoshihisa Maitani, and why does he still matter?
| 451 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:13:18am |
re: #444 Spenser (with an S)
Morning, Lizards. We have a lot of problems up here in MI, but I'll stack our blueberries and cherries up against anyone's. Yum. Our family picked 34lbs. of blueberries last weekend. I think my kids are turning purple.
Better than Jersey Blues? Not possible.
But ours are almost done now.
Next month we'll visit Maine and have some of their blues, which are totally different berries imo.
| 452 |
The Other Les Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:13:50am |
And then there's the classic:
| 453 |
Spenser (with an S) Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:14:45am |
re: #446 BlueCanuck
They're supposed to eat them, not wallow in them. That might be part of the problem. Quick question, are the berries wild or farm raised?
/wild are so much superior in flavour.
Wild are excellent, but these are farmed in the sands by Lake MI and are the size of grapes and so very sweet. Plus, it'd be hard to pick 30-some lbs. of wild berries for the winter.
| 454 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:15:39am |
re: #448 opnion
If he was using a napkin people've called him a sissy. The Bud Light was enough for that.
| 455 |
razorbacker Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:16:34am |
re: #439 BatGuano
About 1960?
A little before. I figure about about '57. I was still in AZ at the time, that's in Grandpa's travel trailer and I figure they were in AZ building highways then.
There is another one of about the same era with me in Apache garb. I guess she's hanging onto that one.
While I might be willing to recreate a shot of me in cowboy shirt, jeans, and boots; you'd play hell getting me to dress up in moccasins and a loincloth now.
| 456 |
BatGuano Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:16:34am |
Good night all, Invoking the Iron fist rule. Damn, I wish he weren't stubborn.
| 457 |
The Other Les Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:17:08am |
re: #454 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
If he was using a napkin people've called him a sissy. The Bud Light was enough for that.
You know: A good beer like Samuel Adams might have raised some uncomfortable questions.
| 458 |
Spenser (with an S) Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:17:15am |
re: #447 TheMatrix31
Not too crazy about blueberries, but cherries are BY FAR my favorite fruit. I had some a few hours ago as my late night snack, but a bunch of them were bruised up. Too bad!
Yes, I love cherries. Real cherries. I saw them make merischino (sp?) cherries when I was a kid and haven't had one since. They put good cherries in a swimming pool, pour acid on them to turn them white and then add the coloring and sugar back. Gross.
| 459 |
BlueCanuck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:18:25am |
re: #453 Spenser (with an S)
Hmmm, not really. We knew a good location in Central Ontario close to our home. Would take a couple of weekends, but we would have enough for our needs. Wild blueberry pie, jam, muffins. Yummm.
| 460 |
Spenser (with an S) Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:18:31am |
re: #451 VioletTiger
Better than Jersey Blues? Not possible.
But ours are almost done now.
Next month we'll visit Maine and have some of their blues, which are totally different berries imo
If I thought they would survive, we could swap and taste-test. No one would be the loser.
| 461 |
opnion Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:18:32am |
re: #454 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
If he was using a napkin people've called him a sissy. The Bud Light was enough for that.
Yeah, he doesn't do real well with the rgular guy thing. Although he is the only White Sox fan ever to see a game at old "Kominskey Field."
| 463 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:21:07am |
re: #460 Spenser (with an S)
If I thought they would survive, we could swap and taste-test. No one would be the loser.
True, but I don't think they travel well. And I'd hate to explain the box dripping purple goo to the post office.
You can get the wild maine berries dried in the store, however. Good on cereal and for baking.
| 464 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:21:34am |
re: #458 Spenser (with an S)
Yes, I love cherries. Real cherries. I saw them make merischino (sp?) cherries when I was a kid and haven't had one since. They put good cherries in a swimming pool, pour acid on them to turn them white and then add the coloring and sugar back. Gross.
Nasty.
Good night, BG
| 465 |
apachegunner Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:22:03am |
re: #437 Cannadian Club Akbar
I thought they were chopping up all the traded in cars, regardless?
that is correct
| 466 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:22:17am |
re: #455 razorbacker
Did you know the Kaiser?
| 467 |
Spenser (with an S) Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:22:36am |
re: #459 BlueCanuck
Hmmm, not really. We knew a good location in Central Ontario close to our home. Would take a couple of weekends, but we would have enough for our needs.
Oh, I meant it would be hard for anyone not living in America's largest national park, Canada.
/// jingoistic, ugly-American ducks the snowballs
| 468 |
razorbacker Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:24:28am |
| 469 |
lincolntf Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:24:31am |
Morning all.
Wife and I were car shopping a few weeks ago. Cash for Clunkers didn't work for us because our trade-in wasn't clunky enough. I was supremely grateful that I didn't have to participate in a program that was so bizarre on it's face. Destroying cars worth thousands and thousands of dollars in order to save the polar bears? Absurd.
So now the "new, young, hip, modern" Administration has to deal with the failures of the present, rather than from the past. The only question remaining: How will the collapse of "Clunkers" be blamed on Bush?
| 470 |
JamesTKirk Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:24:59am |
Want a list of all the songs that can be sung to the tune of the Gilligan's Island theme song (and vice versa)?
| 471 |
Spenser (with an S) Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:25:56am |
re: #463 VioletTiger
You can get the wild maine berries dried in the store, however. Good on cereal and for baking.
My brother works for a large industrial farm that supplies dried berries, bananas, apples and even veggies to food producers. We get lots of samples which my 4 kids just love.
| 472 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:27:14am |
re: #469 lincolntf
Morning all.
Wife and I were car shopping a few weeks ago. Cash for Clunkers didn't work for us because our trade-in wasn't clunky enough. I was supremely grateful that I didn't have to participate in a program that was so bizarre on it's face. Destroying cars worth thousands and thousands of dollars in order to save the polar bears? Absurd.
So now the "new, young, hip, modern" Administration has to deal with the failures of the present, rather than from the past. The only question remaining: How will the collapse of "Clunkers" be blamed on Bush?
Plus, I would like to know how many people who had no car payment now have one.
| 473 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:27:17am |
re: #469 lincolntf
Morning all.
Wife and I were car shopping a few weeks ago. Cash for Clunkers didn't work for us because our trade-in wasn't clunky enough. I was supremely grateful that I didn't have to participate in a program that was so bizarre on it's face. Destroying cars worth thousands and thousands of dollars in order to save the polar bears? Absurd.
So now the "new, young, hip, modern" Administration has to deal with the failures of the present, rather than from the past. The only question remaining: How will the collapse of "Clunkers" be blamed on Bush?
Do not fret, I have been told, off the record, by one of Barry's top staff members, that Avanti will be taking over the Cash for Clunkers program. He will purchase your vehicle for 25 dollars and sell them to Cubans at a small profit.
/// :) (if you are lurking, morning Avanti)
| 474 |
BlueCanuck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:27:56am |
re: #467 Spenser (with an S)
Okay, I'll be honest. I laughed at that statement. And at this time of year it's not snowballs you have to worry about. It's the empties from the cooler.
/try not to damage them too much, they are worth a whole dime.
| 475 |
BatGuano Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:28:13am |
re: #468 razorbacker
Want to try on his pointy helment?
It's called a Pickelhaube. Now I am really gone.
[Link: www.kaisersbunker.com...]
| 476 |
Spenser (with an S) Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:33:03am |
re: #474 BlueCanuck
Okay, I'll be honest. I laughed at that statement. And at this time of year it's not snowballs you have to worry about. It's the empties from the cooler
Glad you laughed. Actually, I may be north of you, depending on where in ON you live. I have absolutely loved our summer temps this year. I'm currently under-employed and I am not missing the huge A/C bills.
| 477 |
lawhawk Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:33:16am |
Greets and saluts from the soggy NYC metro area. I see that accounting isn't a strong suit in government. Someone didn't figure out basic math when it comes to the cash for clunkers program, and news that the program may be suspended even though only 10% of the $1 billion program has been spent so far raises plenty of questions.
The program was supposed to result in anywhere from 222,000 to just about 300,000 rebates issued depending on how many people took advantage of the maximum rebate of $4,500 or the $3,500 rebate.
So, they suspend it with only 10% used because of a backlog? That smells fishy. What's the size of the backlog that would result in a suspension?
And what happens to all those ad campaigns issued taking advantage of the cash for clunkers program. You know the ones - like Chrysler's cash for clunkers matching rebate ad.
It also provides yet another lesson in government operation. If you think that the government is going to provide efficient service, you'd be wrong. Just imagine what will happen when the government health care programs are implemented. You can't suspend that program because of a backlog of service - which can be expected.
Moreover, why did no one expect there to be a rush to take advantage of the cash for clunkers program? Moreover, the government's website to get the rebates makes the program exceedingly difficult to fulfill the rebates.
| 478 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:34:14am |
| 479 |
opnion Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:35:13am |
I heard officer Crowley interviewd after the beer bash. He and Gates are planning more meetings to dialouge for the good of the country?
Officer, let this go. Nothing good can come from it particularly for you.
Gates isn't suddenly going to say , "Ya know your not a bad guy, & I shouldn't have chuckled when Farakhan called Whitey the Devil."
| 480 |
apachegunner Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:35:30am |
re: #473 Walter L. Newton
successful opening night for the new play Walter?
| 481 |
razorbacker Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:35:45am |
re: #475 BatGuano
It's called a Pickelhaube. Now I am really gone.
[Link: www.kaisersbunker.com...]
You say Pickelhaube, people say 'what?'. You say pointy helment, people say, 'you mean like the Germans wore in WWI?'
Well, no. That is not totally accurate. Lots of folks don't know that there was a practice run before WWII.
Actually, I guess, there are lots of folks that don't know that there was a war before Gulf War I.
| 482 |
BlueCanuck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:35:59am |
re: #476 Spenser (with an S)
I probably am at the moment. I live in Toront, have lived in Central and Northern Ontario as well. At one point I was north of Michigan.
| 483 |
JamesTKirk Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:38:18am |
Just a test of the new Vimeo video capability. Listen to this one, fellas.
| 484 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:38:48am |
re: #469 lincolntf
For purely selfish reasons, I did not like the "Cash for Clunkers" thing at all. Now when I pull up to a house for a kitchen design appointment, I'm going to see a new car in the driveway thinking, "Hell yeah! They're spending money!"
Only to find out that three weeks ago they owned a (like new) 1986 Mercury Marquis or Ford Fairmont.
Had I known that, I would have just gone on home, rather than spend three hours with cheapskates.
(Old Mercury Marquis and Ford Fairmonts are the kiss of death in the home improvement industry. People who drive those, don't spend an effing dime. Ever. But, god, do they make appointments.)
| 485 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:39:41am |
re: #479 opnion
I heard officer Crowley interviewd after the beer bash. He and Gates are planning more meetings to dialouge for the good of the country?
Officer, let this go. Nothing good can come from it particularly for you.
Gates isn't suddenly going to say , "Ya know your not a bad guy, & I shouldn't have chuckled when Farakhan called Whitey the Devil."
Considering that Crowley is trained in race relations in regards to police work, this reaction on his part seems to back up his "color blindness."
Yes, he could have taken this incident, run with it for the politics and make some sort of point. But, he appears to be more concerned with the over all social impact this has had, and he is letting go of the possible political browny points that can be made.
Smart move.
| 486 |
razorbacker Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:40:42am |
| 487 |
lawhawk Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:41:15am |
re: #477 lawhawk
Oh, and this report now claims that the program is being suspended because it met its $1 billion goal with nearly 250,000 vehicle rebates delivered. If that's the case, then this program should end.
| 488 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:41:15am |
BBIAB - got to take out garbage and girlfriend and I have walk the three dogs.
| 489 |
Spenser (with an S) Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:45:16am |
re: #484 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
That's why, even though salespeople have their faults, I never waste another salesman's time. I don't mean you have to buy just because you made the appt., but it soon becomes clear whether or not they are dealing in good faith.
| 490 |
opnion Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:45:19am |
re: #485 Walter L. Newton
Considering that Crowley is trained in race relations in regards to police work, this reaction on his part seems to back up his "color blindness."
Yes, he could have taken this incident, run with it for the politics and make some sort of point. But, he appears to be more concerned with the over all social impact this has had, and he is letting go of the possible political browny points that can be made.
Smart move.
Walter, I don't question Crowley's sincerity , just his judgment.
Time to move on, I don't believe that Gates is the type of elitist snob to play nice.
This teachable moment is not meant for Gates or Obama to have some epiphany, but to lay out more White guilt.
| 491 |
Erik The Red Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:45:36am |
Good Morning Lizards. I hope everyone slept well. 2 more days until my family gets here :)))
| 492 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:46:14am |
re: #491 Erik The Red
Good Morning Lizards. I hope everyone slept well. 2 more days until my family gets here :)))
Erik, good morning, I know you are anxiously awaiting their arrival!
| 493 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:46:43am |
re: #471 Spenser (with an S)
My brother works for a large industrial farm that supplies dried berries, bananas, apples and even veggies to food producers. We get lots of samples which my 4 kids just love.
I went to rad tech school at Lake Mich CC, lived outside Benton Harbor...the rural countryside all around out there is filled with orchards and small truck farms...lots of migrant workers...fruits and vegetables galore...just a really beautiful little forgotten area
| 494 |
lincolntf Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:46:54am |
re: #477 lawhawk
To me, the part about the Governmnet failing to keep up with the applications is the least surprising aspect of this failure. The reason bureacracies are such huge albatrosses around our economy's neck is that they are designed to be so. Nobody ever walks into a Gov't job and starts planning how to streamline ops, shrink their budget and eliminate employees. Just the opposite. Without the baffling fine print and self-defeating redundancies built into most Gov't programs, half the Gov't workforce would be on the soup line. So when a comparatively simple, straightforward program happens along, the cumbersome mass of semi-employed humanity in the Government has a natural tendency to slooow things down. Job security.
| 495 |
BlueCanuck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:47:45am |
Good morning Erik. Slept alright, just ingesting my daily dose of coffee now. I bet you are champing at the bit awaiting the arrival of your family.
| 496 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:48:12am |
re: #486 razorbacker
It's like window shopping.
Except you come to their house.
Dig. Why not. Some stranger (probably an entertaining sort) will come out to the house, tell you your grandchildren are above average, your (mangy, 25 year old) dog is the most beautiful in the world. And that your wife's housecoat really brings out the blue in her eyes. And he'll spend three hours sucking up to you...
Then you can turn the tables on the entertaining gent, by giving them a speech about how your whole house costs less than the product he's selling! And how the reason the country is in trouble now is because of people buying things they can't afford.
Then you can tell the salesperson that you are going to "talk about it" and you'll definitely give him a call tomorrow and place an order, knowing good and well that the reason why you have a 1961 twenty fucking dollar bill in your pocket is because it is STILL THERE You time wasting sack of shit!
But, I'm not bitter.
| 498 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:49:46am |
re: #491 Erik The Red
Good Morning Lizards. I hope everyone slept well. 2 more days until my family gets here :)))
You might hear a BOOM in about 2 hours. Know why?
| 499 |
Erik The Red Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:50:08am |
re: #498 Cannadian Club Akbar
You might hear a BOOM in about 2 hours. Know why?
I do. What time exactly?
| 500 |
legalpad Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:50:54am |
re: #33 capitalist piglet
I'll say. She was arrested last year.
[Link: cbs4denver.com...]
| 501 |
razorbacker Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:52:02am |
re: #494 lincolntf
To build on your riff.
The war on poverty will never end. Too many folks make their living fighting poverty.
We'll never be a color-blind society. Too many folks make their living pimping race troubles.
Our schools will never be good enough. Too many folks make their living improving education.
Let government handle health care. We'll never be healthy enough, or spend enough money on health care.
| 502 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:54:12am |
re: #496 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
That was a very fun rant. Gosh, I feel better.
| 503 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:54:45am |
| 504 |
razorbacker Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:54:55am |
re: #496 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
My chubby friend, consider this.
Our Sears store has ads looking for salespeople. 100% commission salespeople.
But, I hear you. Your sales manager will tell you to embrace those 'customers'; that they give you valuable practice honing your pitch. Or whatever they call your sales spiel.
| 505 |
Erik The Red Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:55:02am |
re: #499 Erik The Red
I do. What time exactly?
Found it.
At an altitude of about 200 nautical miles above New Zealand, the Space Shuttle Endeavour appears set to begin a key engine burn in about an hour to establish its course for 10:48 a.m. eastern time touchdown on a Kennedy Space Center runway, weather permitting.
Current weather at Cape Canaveral appears clear and sunny but NASA Mission Control in Houston has expressed concerns about thunderstorm activity beginning to build within the 30-mile area. Technically, all systems were reported functioning well.
Endeavour, commanded by Mark Polansky and piloted by Doug Hurley, is finishing a 16-day mission to restock and build the International Space Station, and to bring home ISS engineer Koichi Wakata.
| 506 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:55:10am |
re: #499 Erik The Red
I do. What time exactly?
Not sure of the time. Also depends on which way they come in. You might have a NASA channel on your TV with your cable provider. I did long ago.
| 507 |
Shropshire_Slasher Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:57:38am |
Good morning Lizards,
I see a lot of talk about cash for clunkers, and something is not passing the smell test. Some people have expressed concern about flooding the market with used cars. Well, the law took care of that, they seize the motors of the traded vehicles BEFORE applying for reimbursement. To me that is one big fly in the ointment. I mean oops the money is gone, and your "clunker" is worth only what you have in the gas tank, and scrap.
| 508 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:58:07am |
re: #504 razorbacker
But, you are right. It does help hone the skills, the first three hundred or so times. After that? I learned to ask this question,
"Sir? Is there a faster way out of here than the way I came in?"
| 509 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:58:36am |
Won't hear that sonic boom in CA, right?
I don't want to wake up because of it.
| 510 |
FrogMarch Fri, Jul 31, 2009 5:58:49am |
re: #487 lawhawk
Oh, and this report now claims that the program is being suspended because it met its $1 billion goal with nearly 250,000 vehicle rebates delivered. If that's the case, then this program should end.
However - it is giving a boost to the down in the dumps auto industry. I say dump the rest of the stimulus (pay-to-play government insider money machine) and keep this thing going for a bit longer.
| 512 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:01:35am |
re: #509 TheMatrix31
Won't hear that sonic boom in CA, right?
I don't want to wake up because of it.
NASA doesn't want to land out there if they can avoid it.
| 513 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:02:14am |
trolls...heh
[Link: www.americanthinker.com...]
| 514 |
razorbacker Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:03:20am |
re: #508 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
But, you are right. It does help hone the skills, the first three hundred or so times. After that? I learned to ask this question,
"Sir? Is there a faster way out of here than the way I came in?"
Years ago, the business buzz-phrase was 'work smarter, not harder'.
I let my sales people run with that stuff about eight months, then called a meeting and announced, "Boys and girls, y'all are 'bout smart enough. Now you're going to get out there and work harder'.
| 515 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:04:06am |
| 516 |
razorbacker Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:04:53am |
Aw'ite. There's my hour. Matter of fact, I went over a mite. I'll cut it short next time, to make up for it.
See Y'all later.
| 518 |
SteveC Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:06:49am |
re: #512 Cannadian Club Akbar
NASA doesn't want to land out there if they can avoid it.
To quote Will Smith, "We be places that we need not be!"
| 519 |
Lincolntf Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:07:08am |
re: #510 FrogMarch
At it's heart, it's a flawed plan. It exchanges something with value ( a car worth thousands and thousands of dollars) for something without value (another $4500 added to the bill to be paid by the next generation).
In the short term, it may work out for the dealers and a few car buyers, but it's a house of cards.
| 520 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:07:18am |
re: #513 albusteve
trolls...heh
[Link: www.americanthinker.com...]
The consensus among experienced victims of the Troll flu in defending the integrity of a web site from an epidemic invasion is to ignore the Troll. For a Troll to be ignored is equal to not watering your avocado plant in your kitchen window. Eventually, it will dry up and wither away. Wisegeek.com advises us, "Trolls often use fallacious arguments or attack the members of the discussion thread when they attempt to defend themselves" from the Troll's ad hominem attacks. This is another reason not to feed the beast with a response.
Good advice.
| 521 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:08:28am |
update on the Philly voter intimidation 'scandal'...this pisses me off
[Link: pajamasmedia.com...]
| 522 |
Erik The Red Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:09:40am |
re: #513 albusteve
trolls...heh
[Link: www.americanthinker.com...]
"Internet personality disorder Troll,"
"characterized by attention-seeking and disruptive behavior in anonymous places. This Troll is easily identified by a variety of traits including a high rating on the charisma score that demands attention from all other forum participants, and establishes dominance in a thread." In other words, the forum is "all about me - I am the center of the universe and the discussion."
Sound like anyone here?
| 523 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:10:43am |
re: #522 Erik The Red
"Internet personality disorder Troll,"
"characterized by attention-seeking and disruptive behavior in anonymous places. This Troll is easily identified by a variety of traits including a high rating on the charisma score that demands attention from all other forum participants, and establishes dominance in a thread." In other words, the forum is "all about me - I am the center of the universe and the discussion."
Sound like anyone here?
Could be many, many, MANY people.
| 524 |
TheMatrix31 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:13:45am |
Later dudes. I really have to stop staying up all night.
| 525 |
Erik The Red Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:14:23am |
| 526 |
Only The Lurker Knows Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:14:35am |
Morning all. If you own a Iphone, you just might want to read this.
| 527 |
SteveC Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:14:41am |
re: #519 Lincolntf
At it's heart, it's a flawed plan.
COMING SOON... to a dealership near you!
Feel the CHAOS!
Experience the CONFUSION!
In the new hit...
IT CAME FROM THE GOVERNMENT!
A Barack Obama Film from Congressional Studios
| 528 |
johnnyreb Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:14:42am |
re: #469 lincolntf
Morning all.
Wife and I were car shopping a few weeks ago. Cash for Clunkers didn't work for us because our trade-in wasn't clunky enough. I was supremely grateful that I didn't have to participate in a program that was so bizarre on it's face. Destroying cars worth thousands and thousands of dollars in order to save the polar bears? Absurd.
So now the "new, young, hip, modern" Administration has to deal with the failures of the present, rather than from the past. The only question remaining: How will the collapse of "Clunkers" be blamed on Bush?
Cash for clunkers is a joke here in CT. People are actually going to junkyards and peoples houses and picking up barely running cars, getting tags and insurance for a day or two and getting the $4,500 trade in allowance. It is one big scam and the dealers don't care.
| 529 |
lawhawk Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:15:32am |
re: #510 FrogMarch
I'm not sure you can make the leap to say that it's actually increased sales. It may simply be replacing some number of existing sales that would have occurred without the rebates.
After all, every year nearly 20 million cars are sold annually. 200,000 cars sold in this program would be 1% of sales (if I did my math right). We'd have to see whether the program actually resulted in increased production. I'm not sure it did, but it might have reduced lot inventories.
Also, Chrysler has been offering up a matching program to entice people to come in and buy Chrysler products. That has to eat at their bottom line.
Then, there's the car dealers who will be awaiting the reimbursement from the feds.
Right now, my biggest problem is that no one seems to know just how much money is left in the program and how many people have taken advantage of the program. You'd think that would be easy enough to do - and yet you can't get a straight answer from anyone. The accounting is a mess, and it's not going to get any better.
| 530 |
Lincolntf Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:17:45am |
re: #528 johnnyreb
I was wondering if that was happening on a large scale anywhere. It's such a common sense move (legal, to boot) that I would've been shocked if people hadn't done what you describe.
| 531 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:17:47am |
re: #521 albusteve
update on the Philly voter intimidation 'scandal'...this pisses me off
[Link: pajamasmedia.com...]
PRMA.
(Post Racial My Ass)
| 535 |
yochanan Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:19:58am |
re: #520 SasquatchOnSteroids
FRANKLY I like BBQ troll better.
very tasty with mint sauce
| 536 |
jill e Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:21:22am |
More post-racial news: Black cop in Gates arrest sends letter to Obama about being called an “Uncle Tom”
| 537 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:21:55am |
| 538 |
SteveC Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:22:35am |
re: #537 SasquatchOnSteroids
Oh,Snap !
I volunteer to pay for the beer Officer Crowley will be billed for.
Me too, but I think we'll have to get in line.
| 539 |
lawhawk Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:24:04am |
Time to stock up on wine and liquor in NJ. The liquor and wine taxes are set to jump 25% tomorrow. Who will be hit hard by this? How about New Jersey wineries. Yeah, this will really work out well.
| 540 |
Lincolntf Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:24:10am |
re: #532 Cannadian Club Akbar
If the Stimulus/Health Care/Cap + Trade messes were of Republican design, all these Town Hall disruptions would be heralded as a Great Awakening and the media would be pointing out the massive displeasure with the Administration.
Since it's Obama, the Town Hall meeting participants are simply hooligans. Or racists. Or have ODS. Or maybe all three, I'll have to check with Rahm to get their official status.
| 541 |
FrogMarch Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:24:19am |
re: #529 lawhawk
...
Right now, my biggest problem is that no one seems to know just how much money is left in the program and how many people have taken advantage of the program. You'd think that would be easy enough to do - and yet you can't get a straight answer from anyone. The accounting is a mess, and it's not going to get any better.
Last nights local news said that some local dealers had spent a lot of money on advertising and brought in more inventory to sell because the program was popular and it was moving cars. I don't know - I'm certainly no expert on these government ponzi schemes. But if one of them actually works - I'd be open to keeping it (for a little while). Wasn't the point to get older gas guzzling cars off the road with an added bonus of actually stimulating something? oh, say, ... the auto industry? But I see your point entirely. And that is the big problem - where is all this money going? I'm skeptical of any government ponzi scheme.
| 542 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:25:32am |
| 543 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:27:32am |
re: #539 lawhawk
Time to stock up on wine and liquor in NJ. The liquor and wine taxes are set to jump 25% tomorrow. Who will be hit hard by this? How about New Jersey wineries. Yeah, this will really work out well.
That's my state.
Corzine is an ass and we will be getting rid of him this November with any luck.
| 544 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:28:44am |
re: #539 lawhawk
Time to stock up on wine and liquor in NJ. The liquor and wine taxes are set to jump 25% tomorrow. Who will be hit hard by this? How about New Jersey wineries. Yeah, this will really work out well.
Hey Lawhawk, is it legal to built and operate a still for personal consumption?
| 545 |
FrogMarch Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:29:23am |
re: #539 lawhawk
Time to stock up on wine and liquor in NJ. The liquor and wine taxes are set to jump 25% tomorrow. Who will be hit hard by this? How about New Jersey wineries. Yeah, this will really work out well.
Uber-wealthy uber-lib Corzine bought his way into politics - I hope the good people of NJ have the sense to throw him out.
| 546 |
vxbush Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:29:50am |
re: #541 FrogMarch
...
Last nights local news said that some local dealers had spent a lot of money on advertising and brought in more inventory to sell because the program was popular and it was moving cars. I don't know - I'm certainly no expert on these government ponzi schemes. But if one of them actually works - I'd be open to keeping it (for a little while). Wasn't the point to get older gas guzzling cars off the road with an added bonus of actually stimulating something? oh, say, ... the auto industry? But I see your point entirely. And that is the big problem - where is all this money going? I'm skeptical of any government ponzi scheme.
Morning, everyone.
People have been making the point that even if you take advantage of the plan and buy a car better at fuel consumption, there is nothing preventing you from turning right around, selling that car for a small loss (for which you still are ahead given the amount of money you got from the Feds) and then going out and buying a used gas-guzzler or muscle car.
Which makes me ask two questions:
1. Does the plan require you to buy a *new* car?
2. Are there any requirements that you keep the car you just bought for a given amount of time?
| 547 |
FrogMarch Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:30:41am |
re: #528 johnnyreb
Cash for clunkers is a joke here in CT. People are actually going to junkyards and peoples houses and picking up barely running cars, getting tags and insurance for a day or two and getting the $4,500 trade in allowance. It is one big scam and the dealers don't care.
Well that's just great.
/
| 548 |
FrogMarch Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:31:34am |
re: #546 vxbush
Morning, everyone.
People have been making the point that even if you take advantage of the plan and buy a car better at fuel consumption, there is nothing preventing you from turning right around, selling that car for a small loss (for which you still are ahead given the amount of money you got from the Feds) and then going out and buying a used gas-guzzler or muscle car.
Which makes me ask two questions:
1. Does the plan require you to buy a *new* car?
2. Are there any requirements that you keep the car you just bought for a given amount of time?
I have no idea?
There must be a lot of loop holes and abuse going on.
| 549 |
vxbush Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:31:35am |
re: #528 johnnyreb
Yup, that's the other way to take advantage of it. People will find ways to game the system.
| 550 |
avanti Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:32:26am |
re: #528 johnnyreb
Cash for clunkers is a joke here in CT. People are actually going to junkyards and peoples houses and picking up barely running cars, getting tags and insurance for a day or two and getting the $4,500 trade in allowance. It is one big scam and the dealers don't care.
They are wasting their time, since you have to prove continuous registration and insurance for one full year to qualify.
| 551 |
JohnnyReb Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:32:35am |
re: #539 lawhawk
Time to stock up on wine and liquor in NJ. The liquor and wine taxes are set to jump 25% tomorrow. Who will be hit hard by this? How about New Jersey wineries. Yeah, this will really work out well.
CT is next in line. An couple of billion in the red on the budget and the first thing that comes out is increase cigarette and liquor taxes. They do this every time something breaks and they NEVER, repeat NEVER, generate the revenue they project. People either cut back, quit or go to New Hampshire to buy their stuff.
I will give them some credit, the Dems are actually floating the idea of getting rid of the DMV and farming out it's responsibilities to existing agencies.
| 552 |
Lincolntf Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:32:37am |
re: #541 FrogMarch
"Wasn't the point to get older gas guzzling cars off the road with an added bonus of actually stimulating something?"
Not really. If that was the only goal, then the mileage differential between old/new cars would be the sole determinant of eligibility. It was a feel-good, do-nothing plan (like most Government programs). While some people may benefit from the plan (it's hard to give away a billion dollars without fattening someone's wallet) it is ultimately not going to help the economy.
Add in the fact that most of the decent new cars that qualify mileage-wise are foreign-made and the returns diminish even further.
| 553 |
vxbush Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:32:46am |
re: #548 FrogMarch
I have no idea?
There must be a lot of loop holes and abuse going on.
My questions are partly rhetorical. The answers to both seem to be no, based on the analyses I've seen.
Now my car is ten years old, gets 30 mpg on the highway, and I love it. I don't plan to upgrade any time soon.
| 554 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:33:12am |
re: #528 johnnyreb
Cash for clunkers is a joke here in CT. People are actually going to junkyards and peoples houses and picking up barely running cars, getting tags and insurance for a day or two and getting the $4,500 trade in allowance. It is one big scam and the dealers don't care.
You have to provide proof that you've owned the car for at least a year prior to trade-in. If what you describe is taking place, you need to contact the police; it is completely illegal.
| 555 |
vxbush Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:34:07am |
re: #552 Lincolntf
"Wasn't the point to get older gas guzzling cars off the road with an added bonus of actually stimulating something?"
Not really. If that was the only goal, then the mileage differential between old/new cars would be the sole determinant of eligibility. It was a feel-good, do-nothing plan (like most Government programs). While some people may benefit from the plan (it's hard to give away a billion dollars without fattening someone's wallet) it is ultimately not going to help the economy.
Add in the fact that most of the decent new cars that qualify mileage-wise are foreign-made and the returns diminish even further.
Yes, but when you realize that there are Mitsubishi and Toyota plants in the US, those "foreign cars" aren't really that foreign.
| 556 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:35:12am |
re: #545 FrogMarch
Uber-wealthy uber-lib Corzine bought his way into politics - I hope the good people of NJ have the sense to throw him out.
We are sure going to try. Christie is ahead in the polls, but it is still early and Corsine has bucks.
He showed up at the local Peach Festival this weekend. Did not attract much of a crowd and there were PROTEST signs at the entrance to greet him and thank him for all the new taxes.
| 557 |
FrogMarch Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:35:35am |
re: #552 Lincolntf
"Wasn't the point to get older gas guzzling cars off the road with an added bonus of actually stimulating something?"
Not really. If that was the only goal, then the mileage differential between old/new cars would be the sole determinant of eligibility. It was a feel-good, do-nothing plan (like most Government programs). While some people may benefit from the plan (it's hard to give away a billion dollars without fattening someone's wallet) it is ultimately not going to help the economy.
Add in the fact that most of the decent new cars that qualify mileage-wise are foreign-made and the returns diminish even further.
I thought I heard that there was a 5 mile per gallon improvement requirement? In any case, newer cars generally get much better gas millage than older ones. They are much cleaner too. Which is why the clunkers had to be of a certain age.
| 558 |
Lincolntf Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:35:59am |
re: #550 avanti
Prove to who? The auto dealer? I'm pretty sure that when he's about to sell a car to someone he's more than willing to check the "Verified insurance/reg." box on the Gov't ppwk. Unless you think the Gov't is going to individually audit every transaction.
| 559 |
vxbush Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:36:58am |
re: #558 Lincolntf
Prove to who? The auto dealer? I'm pretty sure that when he's about to sell a car to someone he's more than willing to check the "Verified insurance/reg." box on the Gov't ppwk. Unless you think the Gov't is going to individually audit every transaction.
I must concur. While there are good souls in every business, there are always those who are willing to jump through any hoop and check any box just to make a deal.
| 560 |
lawhawk Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:37:49am |
re: #545 FrogMarch
Well, one unintended consequence of the recession is that Corzine doesn't have nearly as much money to spend on reelection. Well, that and a divorce. He's got to suck up to donors for campaign contributions.
Which means that one of the reasons to choose Corzine goes by the wayside - he can't be perceived as being above being bought. Now? He's just another hack politician.
| 561 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:38:03am |
California Taxitis...rip you off to you bleed til you to death while you pay for their car and health insurance
| 562 |
Lincolntf Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:38:05am |
re: #555 vxbush
I'm well aware of that. Doesn't change a thing.
| 563 |
jill e Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:38:23am |
"Cash for Clunkers" going broke:
The Obama administration is telling lawmakers that its much-touted “cash-for-clunkers” program is already running out of money, according to three Senate aides familiar with the discussions. . .in the one week since it took effect, it appears to have run dry of the $1 billion allocated to it, aides said Thursday.
In simple English:
“Note that the program started on July 1, they only published the actual rules Friday and they’re still working out how to get the dealers their money. . .what’s essentially happening here is that car dealerships are giving $4,500 interest-free, unguaranteed loans to the federal government… and the determination of whether or not those loans get paid off is more or less going to be at the discretion of mid-level bureaucrats at the NHTSA.”
| 564 |
JohnnyReb Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:38:24am |
re: #550 avanti
They are wasting their time, since you have to prove continuous registration and insurance for one full year to qualify.
Not if the dealer looks the other way and checks the block on the application. No proof has to be sent in for the dealer to get the money, just the completed and signed application.
| 565 |
avanti Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:39:10am |
re: #554 SixDegrees
You have to provide proof that you've owned the car for at least a year prior to trade-in. If what you describe is taking place, you need to contact the police; it is completely illegal.
The dealer will pay a 15K fine for any fraudulent deal like that, and are very cautious. One guy owned the same clunker since the late 80's, but his wife let the insurance lapse for a week in the last year and they would not take the car. He's trying to get a waiver from the program.
| 566 |
vxbush Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:39:24am |
re: #560 lawhawk
Well, one unintended consequence of the recession is that Corzine doesn't have nearly as much money to spend on reelection. Well, that and a divorce. He's got to suck up to donors for campaign contributions.
Which means that one of the reasons to choose Corzine goes by the wayside - he can't be perceived as being above being bought. Now? He's just another hack politician.
Forgive me, but I don't recall: Corzine is from which political party?
| 567 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:39:42am |
I received one of those Cash for Clunkers flyers from a Mazda dealership.
I have an older car (93 Toyota) I use 4 days a week just for driving to work, and actually was thinking of replacing it. Got to the part about how you, too can save the planet, heal Mother Erf, and associated greenie shit and just shitcanned it.
I'm all for recycling, etc, but it sounded like a damn political ad to me.
I'll keep the clunker. It's paid for, is mechanically sound, and I like it.
| 568 |
FrogMarch Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:40:08am |
re: #556 VioletTiger
We are sure going to try. Christie is ahead in the polls, but it is still early and Corsine has bucks.
He showed up at the local Peach Festival this weekend. Did not attract much of a crowd and there were PROTEST signs at the entrance to greet him and thank him for all the new taxes.
You poor folks are taxed to death in NJ. My sister-in-law's family are all from NJ. She once told me what her folks pay in property tax and my jaw hit the floor. NJ has a solid liberal/democrat populous - but at some point it's even liberals revolt. Corzine is certainly pushing the limits of the standard democrat meme: "tax everyone and everything to death until every social program turns into utopia!" Meanwhile, the state's economy is swirling down the toilet.
| 569 |
Lincolntf Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:41:26am |
re: #565 avanti
So we get to trust both car dealers and bureacrats in this deal?
Well, that makes me feel a lot better.
| 570 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:42:47am |
| 571 |
SteveC Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:43:18am |
re: #566 vxbush
Forgive me, but I don't recall: Corzine is from which political party?
I think he's in the "You make it, we take it" party
| 572 |
lawhawk Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:43:39am |
re: #566 vxbush
Democrat - like all but two of the politicians indicted in that massive corruption bust last week.
| 573 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:44:14am |
I will not raise taxes for anyone making 250k or less...I will standby and watch while the states tax you into total submission tho as a result of my aggressive fiscal reforms
| 574 |
FrogMarch Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:44:23am |
| 575 |
vxbush Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:44:56am |
re: #571 SteveC
I think he's in the "You make it, we take it" party
Heh. You know, I'd love it if someone would take the time to put together a book showing how well cities long governed by Republicans generally do versus how poorly cities long governed by Democrats do. Nothing is perfect, of course, but we've got enough examples out to make people think twice about letting the Dems have power so long that they run states and cities into the ground.
I wish that weren't the case, but there are a lot of examples of bad Democrat leadership.
| 576 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:46:06am |
Good (Friday!) morning everyone.
Anyone here use FIOS? Verizon is advertising it with a special of $199/month for the first two months. I'm wondering what it will cost after those first two months. I'm paying more than that now to use regular Verizon service for my phone, internet and sat tv.
| 577 |
avanti Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:46:22am |
re: #569 Lincolntf
So we get to trust both car dealers and bureacrats in this deal?
Well, that makes me feel a lot better.
You should see the paperwork involved to prove ownership for a year, not to mention how easy it is to check. Unless you can reprogram the MVA computers and Carfax I don't see how you can scam the program with the VIN of the clunker coming in and the new car going out.
| 578 |
_RememberTonyC Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:46:26am |
What was Biden doing at the "Beer Summit" yesterday? Was he there in order to balance the table so it didn't look like Sgt Crowley was being ganged up on? Was he there to "prove" to the world that the POTUS is really an "inclusive" sort of dude?
| 579 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:46:27am |
re: #564 JohnnyReb
Not if the dealer looks the other way and checks the block on the application. No proof has to be sent in for the dealer to get the money, just the completed and signed application.
Really? Are you sure the dealer doesn't have to document the vehicle information? I doubt that the government, even this one, is going to simply start handing out checks without some form of verification. In fact, given that both the year, make and model of the vehicle are required, I'd bet that a copy of the title - which contains all this information, as well as ownership transfer dates - is required.
But perhaps you can direct me to your source of information on dealer requirements. I'd be interested in seeing just what they are.
| 580 |
jill e Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:46:42am |
"Cash for Clunkers" could end up as big a disaster as the Hoover "free flights" promotion.
| 581 |
Beach Lover Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:46:51am |
Morning, Lizards. Here's a little article worth reading if for no other reson than it will make you laugh.
FTA.
Obama undoubtedly has major accomplishments ahead of him, but in a real way the Obama presidency is over. His messianic hopey-changiness has been exposed for what it was, and what it could only be: a rich cocktail of pie-eyed idealism, campaign sloganeering, and profound arrogance.As president, he’s tried to apply the post-partisan gloss of his campaign rhetoric to the hyper-partisan dross of his agenda. And he’s fooling fewer people every day.
| 582 |
vxbush Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:47:02am |
re: #578 _RememberTonyC
What was Biden doing at the "Beer Summit" yesterday? Was he there in order to balance the table so it didn't look like Sgt Crowley was being ganged up on? Was he there to "prove" to the world that the POTUS is really an "inclusive" sort of dude?
I think he wanted some of the limelight. He hates being in the shadows.
| 583 |
FrogMarch Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:47:03am |
| 584 |
ladycatnip Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:47:25am |
This is restoring my faith in the America people - we're not stupid lemmings as the left had hoped. These are some serious and scary democratic constituents. Way to go!
| 585 |
Sheila Broflovski Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:47:41am |
re: #521 albusteve
update on the Philly voter intimidation 'scandal'...this pisses me off
[Link: pajamasmedia.com...]
To the new "post racial" way of thinking, what the NBPP did outside the Philly polling location was perfectly OK, because it was "payback" for what the KKK did outside deep South polling places 80 years ago.
| 586 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:47:43am |
re: #578 _RememberTonyC
What was Biden doing at the "Beer Summit" yesterday? Was he there in order to balance the table so it didn't look like Sgt Crowley was being ganged up on? Was he there to "prove" to the world that the POTUS is really an "inclusive" sort of dude?
He was there for the cheap beer.
| 587 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:47:49am |
re: #567 SasquatchOnSteroids
I received one of those Cash for Clunkers flyers from a Mazda dealership.
I have an older car (93 Toyota) I use 4 days a week just for driving to work, and actually was thinking of replacing it. Got to the part about how you, too can save the planet, heal Mother Erf, and associated greenie shit and just shitcanned it.
I'm all for recycling, etc, but it sounded like a damn political ad to me.
I'll keep the clunker. It's paid for, is mechanically sound, and I like it.
Am I the only person in America who thinks that it isn't the role of the Federal Government to be a used car dealer?
| 588 |
SteveC Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:48:03am |
re: #578 _RememberTonyC
Was he there in order to balance the table so it didn't look like Sgt Crowley was being ganged up on?
We have a WINNAH!
Was he there to "prove" to the world that the POTUS is really an "inclusive" sort of dude?
Damn, this young man is SMART!
| 589 |
Spider Mensch Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:48:03am |
re: #578 _RememberTonyC
What was Biden doing at the "Beer Summit" yesterday? Was he there in order to balance the table so it didn't look like Sgt Crowley was being ganged up on? Was he there to "prove" to the world that the POTUS is really an "inclusive" sort of dude?
they needed someone to make fun of...
| 590 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:48:53am |
re: #578 _RememberTonyC
What was Biden doing at the "Beer Summit" yesterday? Was he there in order to balance the table so it didn't look like Sgt Crowley was being ganged up on? Was he there to "prove" to the world that the POTUS is really an "inclusive" sort of dude?
As the closest thing this admin has to an "adult", he's the only one trusted with a bottle opener
| 591 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:49:02am |
re: #587 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
Am I the only person in America who thinks that it isn't the role of the Federal Government to be a used car dealer?
*raises hand*
I'm with you.
| 592 |
Lincolntf Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:49:14am |
re: #577 avanti
And yet this hyper-efficient system somehow collapsed in less than a week? C'mon. Not even you can believe that efficiency is a major consideration when coming up with these programs.
Wonder what I'd get if I traded in this old bridge I've had sitting around...
| 593 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:49:19am |
I could have traded in my Jeep using Cash for Clunkers, but I'm holding out for Unicorns for Clunkers.
| 594 |
jill e Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:50:01am |
re: #578 _RememberTonyC
What was Biden doing at the "Beer Summit" yesterday? Was he there in order to balance the table so it didn't look like Sgt Crowley was being ganged up on? Was he there to "prove" to the world that the POTUS is really an "inclusive" sort of dude?
Ed McMahon...Here's BARRY!
| 595 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:50:05am |
re: #568 FrogMarch
You poor folks are taxed to death in NJ. My sister-in-law's family are all from NJ. She once told me what her folks pay in property tax and my jaw hit the floor. NJ has a solid liberal/democrat populous - but at some point it's even liberals revolt. Corzine is certainly pushing the limits of the standard democrat meme: "tax everyone and everything to death until every social program turns into utopia!" Meanwhile, the state's economy is swirling down the toilet.
Not every town is lib. I am in a solid red town, but the libs in the cities overwhelm us all. Our property taxes are the highest in the country. There is a lot of waste in government, but they never seem to clean it up.
Hopefully, we can be the beacon on the hill and be the first to send these tax and spend fools packing.
| 596 |
jill e Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:50:52am |
re: #587 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
Am I the only person in America who thinks that it isn't the role of the Federal Government to be a used car dealer?
I think the Government and Used Car Dealers have more in common than we'd like to admit.
| 597 |
avanti Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:51:22am |
re: #564 JohnnyReb
Not if the dealer looks the other way and checks the block on the application. No proof has to be sent in for the dealer to get the money, just the completed and signed application.
You are dead wrong, I just did the deal, and the dealer had to prove my ownership for the previous year. I did not have my insurance card with me and my agent had to fax a letter over to the dealer since it was after hours for the MVA check.
| 598 |
Desert Dog Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:51:36am |
Interesting article on RCP
Why All the Birther Attention Now
Am I the only one who finds it odd that the media is paying exponentially more attention to the birther issue today than during the campaign? There was reason to ignore conspiracy theories during the campaign. There were a great deal of lies flying around about Barack Obama in 2007 and 2008 (there were a few flying around about John McCain and Sarah Palin as well).
But the treatment of the "birthers" is peculiar. I went on Nexis and did a search of the broad "news" category of the phrase: "birth certificate" and Obama. In the past month there were 564 pieces on the subject (302 in the past week alone!). That is more than half of all the pieces on the subject written before Election Day 2008, which totaled 1051. Major broadcast outlets from MSNBC to National Public Radio have devoted hours of coverage to the subject in the past week.
| 599 |
_RememberTonyC Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:51:41am |
re: #590 sattv4u2
As the closest thing this admin has to an "adult", he's the only one trusted with a bottle opener
I wouldn't trust "Plugs" with a bottle opener ...
| 600 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:51:51am |
re: #578 _RememberTonyC
What was Biden doing at the "Beer Summit" yesterday? Was he there in order to balance the table so it didn't look like Sgt Crowley was being ganged up on? Was he there to "prove" to the world that the POTUS is really an "inclusive" sort of dude?
Best line I heard last night, can't remember who posted it, was that Biden was there in case the cop got out of line. Heh.
| 601 |
lawhawk Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:52:16am |
re: #576 Mad Al-Jaffee
I have FiOS triple play. I paid $94.99 plus taxes and fees a month. I don't have the HBO and premium channels, and the net speeds are 20/5mbs. You have to look and see what speeds they're providing in your area as the speeds change depending on area and the offer.
I love the FiOS service, but hate the Verizon customer service, which took months to get my billing correct. As a result of major issues with my billing, I got a LCD tv out of the deal, plus a 2 year lock in price (when I signed up originally, it was just before the LCD tv deal and only offered a 1 year lock-in).
| 602 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:52:31am |
re: #595 VioletTiger
Not every town is lib. I am in a solid red town, but the libs in the cities overwhelm us all. Our property taxes are the highest in the country. There is a lot of waste in government, but they never seem to clean it up.
Hopefully, we can be the beacon on the hill and be the first to send these tax and spend fools packing.
The only conservative bumper stickers I see in my neighborhood (in Philly) are on the back of our contractor's pick-up truck. He's from South Jersey.
| 603 |
CynicalConservative Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:52:49am |
re: #592 Lincolntf
And yet this hyper-efficient system somehow collapsed in less than a week? C'mon. Not even you can believe that efficiency is a major consideration when coming up with these programs.
Wonder what I'd get if I traded in this old bridge I've had sitting around...
Wonder if that $4500 will have to be claimed as taxable income in April?
| 604 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:53:30am |
re: #584 ladycatnip
This is restoring my faith in the America people - we're not stupid lemmings as the left had hoped. These are some serious and scary democratic constituents. Way to go!
Frankly, I deplore this sort of behavior. It flies in the face of the free interchange of ideas to shout someone down who you disagree with, and it is just plain rude.
I've decried it for years when the Left was using these tactics to shut down discussion, and it is every bit as bad when the Right indulges in them.
The only noteworthy difference is the sudden interest of the media in such behavior, when it went without comment for years when perpetrated by Leftist thugs instead of the the thugs on the Right. How many pieings did Republican speakers have to put up with that were laughed off by the media? The inconsistency here is as appalling as the violation of civility itself.
| 605 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:53:33am |
re: #599 _RememberTonyC
I wouldn't trust "Plugs" with a bottle opener ...
I wouldn't trust him with a pull-tab.
| 606 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:53:44am |
re: #601 lawhawk
I'll call them and ask. I don't have or need HBO or any of the other premium channels.
Thanks!
| 607 |
_RememberTonyC Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:54:01am |
re: #600 SasquatchOnSteroids
Best line I heard last night, can't remember who posted it, was that Biden was there in case the cop got out of line. Heh.
I think Crowley could "take" all three of them and still have one hand available to flip the media the bird.
| 608 |
lawhawk Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:54:41am |
re: #603 CynicalConservative
Wonder if that $4500 will have to be claimed as taxable income in April?
No. According to the Cars.gov website, the credit will not count as federal taxable income. States might take a different view - which means you'll have to check with the individual states to see whether they will or not.
| 609 |
KenJen Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:54:42am |
re: #578 _RememberTonyC
What was Biden doing at the "Beer Summit" yesterday? Was he there in order to balance the table so it didn't look like Sgt Crowley was being ganged up on? Was he there to "prove" to the world that the POTUS is really an "inclusive" sort of dude?
Saw a picture of it on Drudge this morning. At least we can rest assured that O isn't wasting any of our tax dollars on patio furniture for "his house". That stuff looks like it came from Kmart.
| 610 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:54:51am |
re: #596 jill e
I think the Government and Used Car Dealers have more in common than we'd like to admit.
At least I can walk away from a used car dealer and just say no, so I'd say they're 2 notches above The Feds in my book.
| 611 |
jill e Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:54:52am |
From Allahpundit:
I wonder how long it took Greasy Joe to tell his first “two blacks and an Irishman walk into a bar” joke. Over/under is 11 seconds.
| 612 |
vxbush Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:54:53am |
re: #598 Desert Dog
Interesting article on RCP
I have no clue why all the interest in the media. I can see how they would like to make those on the conservative aisle look stupid, and this might do it.
| 613 |
Pullus Iulius Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:55:09am |
re: #596 jill e
I think the Government and Used Car Dealers have more in common than we'd like to admit.
That's a mighty nasty slam at used car dealers.
/
| 614 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:55:11am |
re: #604 SixDegrees
Frankly, I deplore this sort of behavior. It flies in the face of the free interchange of ideas to shout someone down who you disagree with, and it is just plain rude.
I've decried it for years when the Left was using these tactics to shut down discussion, and it is every bit as bad when the Right indulges in them.
The only noteworthy difference is the sudden interest of the media in such behavior, when it went without comment for years when perpetrated by Leftist thugs instead of the the thugs on the Right. How many pieings did Republican speakers have to put up with that were laughed off by the media? The inconsistency here is as appalling as the violation of civility itself.
the left has considered this acceptable behavior...you cannot expect people to sit back and not indulge
| 615 |
_RememberTonyC Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:55:12am |
joe biden's face reminds me of spiro agnew, who just appeared in an old clip on FOX News.
| 616 |
CynicalConservative Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:55:35am |
re: #608 lawhawk
No. According to the Cars.gov website, the credit will not count as federal taxable income. States might take a different view - which means you'll have to check with the individual states to see whether they will or not.
Cool, thanks. Just my inner cynic sneaking out...
| 617 |
avanti Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:55:55am |
re: #592 Lincolntf
And yet this hyper-efficient system somehow collapsed in less than a week? C'mon. Not even you can believe that efficiency is a major consideration when coming up with these programs.
Wonder what I'd get if I traded in this old bridge I've had sitting around...
The system was overwhelmed with the success of the program. Dealers that were expected to sell 20 cars over 3 months, sold them in less then a week. It was a mistake to not plan for the possibility the program would go nuts, but no one expected the sales numbers they got.
| 618 |
Lincolntf Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:55:59am |
re: #597 avanti
You do understand that NO fraud is ever "allowed". That's why it's called fraud.
If you think not being allowed is synonymous with not happening, then you live in Fantasyland.
Apparently, CT has already seen people get through the (according to you) stringent requirements.
| 619 |
Desert Dog Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:56:37am |
re: #612 vxbush
I have no clue why all the interest in the media. I can see how they would like to make those on the conservative aisle look stupid, and this might do it.
Fanning the flames and stirring the pot a little, I'd say. 300+ stories on it in a week? That is not an accident.
| 620 |
jill e Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:56:50am |
re: #615 _RememberTonyC
joe biden's face reminds me of spiro agnew, who just appeared in an old clip on FOX News.
Nattering nabobs of negativity!
| 621 |
avanti Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:57:35am |
re: #603 CynicalConservative
Wonder if that $4500 will have to be claimed as taxable income in April?
No, it is not taxable, but I had to pay sales tax on the full cost of the new car.
| 622 |
legalpad Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:57:48am |
re: #612 vxbush
they would like to make those on the conservative aisle look stupid
They've been methodically doing that for at least 40 years.
| 623 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:57:52am |
re: #617 avanti
The system was overwhelmed with the success of the program. Dealers that were expected to sell 20 cars over 3 months, sold them in less then a week. It was a mistake to not plan for the possibility the program would go nuts, but no one expected the sales numbers they got.
BOs admin is having a difficult time figuring out the results of their policies...or 'estimating' how bad the economy is...you'd almost think they are not even trying...if they are they continue to fail
| 624 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:57:59am |
re: #581 Beach Lover
Morning, Lizards. Here's a little article worth reading if for no other reson than it will make you laugh.
FTA.
Of course, we could say 'told you so'...
| 625 |
jill e Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:58:04am |
re: #617 avanti
The system was overwhelmed with the success of the program. Dealers that were expected to sell 20 cars over 3 months, sold them in less then a week. It was a mistake to not plan for the possibility the program would go nuts, but no one expected the sales numbers they got.
But now the dealers have to actually get the money from the government!
| 626 |
MrSilverDragon Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:58:15am |
Good morning, everyone!
Word of advice, never let a carpenter do a plumber's job (or let your better half significant other tell the carpenter it's ok).
That is all.
(that's a lot of water in the basement, dear...)
| 627 |
Lincolntf Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:58:19am |
re: #617 avanti
Of course. A victim of his own success! Poor Obama, how does he do it?
| 628 |
JohnnyReb Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:58:21am |
re: #597 avanti
You are dead wrong, I just did the deal, and the dealer had to prove my ownership for the previous year. I did not have my insurance card with me and my agent had to fax a letter over to the dealer since it was after hours for the MVA check.
New car dealer or used car dealer?
| 629 |
opnion Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:58:23am |
re: #607 _RememberTonyC
I think Crowley could "take" all three of them and still have one hand available to flip the media the bird.
He should have asked Barry to play a game of catch for the camera, just for laughs.
| 630 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:58:29am |
re: #615 _RememberTonyC
joe biden's face reminds me of spiro agnew, who just appeared in an old clip on FOX News.
Reminds me of that little genie dude that would pop up over Fred Flintstones shoulder every once in a while. What the hell was his name ?
| 631 |
vxbush Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:58:49am |
re: #617 avanti
The system was overwhelmed with the success of the program. Dealers that were expected to sell 20 cars over 3 months, sold them in less then a week. It was a mistake to not plan for the possibility the program would go nuts, but no one expected the sales numbers they got.
That's not my understanding. I believe that car dealers were ready to use the program for several months and had sold cars during that time under the deal, but they weren't able to submit the claims to the government until this last week when the details were finalized. So we're actually looking at several months of car sales submitted in one week.
| 632 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:59:14am |
re: #603 CynicalConservative
Wonder if that $4500 will have to be claimed as taxable income in April?
Probably not, but it's a good question. Your $17.00 per week reduction in withholding "stimulus" is going to bite a whole lot of married people in the ass next year, because they bodged the withholding tables for that category. If you're married filing jointly and have always received a refund, it will be smaller next year, or you may well wind up owing taxes. So it isn't as though they Administration has a sterling track record at such things.
| 633 |
Creeping Eruption Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:59:24am |
re: #630 SasquatchOnSteroids
Reminds me of that little genie dude that would pop up over Fred Flintstones shoulder every once in a while. What the hell was his name ?
Cosmo?
| 634 |
Desert Dog Fri, Jul 31, 2009 6:59:45am |
| 635 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:00:15am |
| 636 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:00:24am |
re: #617 avanti
The system was overwhelmed with the success of the program. Dealers that were expected to sell 20 cars over 3 months, sold them in less then a week. It was a mistake to not plan for the possibility the program would go nuts, but no one expected the sales numbers they got.
You don't have all the information. On KOA radio this morning, the President of the Colorado chapter of the Car Dealers Association was on the radio.
Most of the problem with the program is that the dealer has to handle 19 different PDF forms that need to be faxed to different departments when they make one of these deals.
According to this gentleman, availability was only a small part of this. Most of the problem was with the rules, processes and paperwork, and the fact that even the car dealers did not have good guidance on how the program worked.
It was because of standard government FUBAR, not simply a supply problem.
Barry and his clowns blew it.
| 637 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:00:27am |
re: #630 SasquatchOnSteroids
Reminds me of that little genie dude that would pop up over Fred Flintstones shoulder every once in a while. What the hell was his name ?
Kazoo
| 638 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:00:52am |
re: #603 CynicalConservative
Wonder if that $4500 will have to be claimed as taxable income in April?
I would not be surprised.
| 639 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:01:11am |
re: #614 albusteve
the left has considered this acceptable behavior...you cannot expect people to sit back and not indulge
I certainly can. Two wrongs don't make a right. Bad behavior is bad behavior; I've never accepted this sort of action as acceptable - and I'm not about to start now. There's no excuse that can be given for it.
| 640 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:01:18am |
re: #617 avanti
The system was overwhelmed with the success of the program
They've estimated some 200,000 deals have been made
In the US, the LOW average of all car sales in a year os 20,000,000
overwhelmed my toukas!
| 641 |
Pullus Iulius Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:01:22am |
re: #625 jill e
But now the dealers have to actually get the money from the government!
"The check is in the mail" and "We're from the government and we're here to help." Two huge lies for the price of one. Not bad.
| 642 |
MrSilverDragon Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:01:26am |
| 643 |
avanti Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:02:02am |
re: #625 jill e
But now the dealers have to actually get the money from the government!
That is a issue for some dealers that have 100 of thousands tied up. Many pay a small few to a company to get the money instantly as they do for accounts receivable.
| 644 |
Erik The Red Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:02:28am |
re: #567 SasquatchOnSteroids
I received one of those Cash for Clunkers flyers from a Mazda dealership.
I have an older car (93 Toyota) I use 4 days a week just for driving to work, and actually was thinking of replacing it. Got to the part about how you, too can save the planet, heal Mother Erf, and associated greenie shit and just shitcanned it.
I'm all for recycling, etc, but it sounded like a damn political ad to me.
I'll keep the clunker. It's paid for, is mechanically sound, and I like it.
Most important. No new debit. I wonder how many people have gone deeper into debit just to take advantage of the CFC deal.
| 645 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:02:43am |
re: #639 SixDegrees
I certainly can. Two wrongs don't make a right. Bad behavior is bad behavior; I've never accepted this sort of action as acceptable - and I'm not about to start now. There's no excuse that can be given for it.
you don't have to accept it...my point is that it is already acceptable, or common place or whatever you want to call it...Americans are pissed and they are expressing it
| 646 |
avanti Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:02:45am |
| 647 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:03:11am |
| 648 |
Lincolntf Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:03:12am |
re: #640 sattv4u2
You know the deal...
It's a great program!! It's failure proves it's greatness!!
Orwell had nothing on Avanti (or Obama, for that matter).
| 649 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:03:27am |
re: #631 vxbush
That's not my understanding. I believe that car dealers were ready to use the program for several months and had sold cars during that time under the deal, but they weren't able to submit the claims to the government until this last week when the details were finalized. So we're actually looking at several months of car sales submitted in one week.
Well, one month. The program went into effect July 1, but the paperwork stream didn't open until July 24. So there's an initial 3-week or so backlog.
| 650 |
Kronocide Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:03:38am |
“I have no problem with someone disagreeing with positions I hold,” Bishop said, noting that, for the time being, he was using other platforms to communicate with his constituents. “But I also believe no one is served if you can’t talk through differences.”
Freedom of speech to act like children.
| 651 |
FrogMarch Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:03:46am |
“For-profit” firms come under constant attack from activists and members of Congress.Thus, a recent news release from the AFL-CIO began with this evidently alarming fact: “Profits at 10 of the country’s largest publicly traded health insurance companies rose 428 percent from 2000 to 2007.” Even had the figures been correct — they weren’t — we are seeing the same circus. Profit is the enemy. America could be made pure, if only profit could be purged.
This attitude was wrong in 2006. It is wrong now. High profits are excellent news. When corporate earnings reach record levels, we should be celebrating. The only way a firm can make money is to sell people what they want at a price they are willing to pay. If a firm makes lots of money, lots of people are getting what they want.
Many (not all) non-profits are corrupt. and run by democrats...
hmmm.
| 652 |
Desert Dog Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:04:05am |
Cool science article:
Scientists Turn Aluminum into Strange Material
And, I am off to work...have fun
| 653 |
vxbush Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:04:41am |
re: #649 SixDegrees
Well, one month. The program went into effect July 1, but the paperwork stream didn't open until July 24. So there's an initial 3-week or so backlog.
Thanks for the correction. But they have been sitting on paperwork that had to be submitted, and so they had three weeks of forms to submit.
Now: Why is it that you can sell cars using a Fed program before the Fed program is really up and running? To me, that's craziness.
| 654 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:04:49am |
re: #644 Erik The Red
Most important. No new debit. I wonder how many people have gone deeper into debit just to take advantage of the CFC deal.
Yep, not me.
2 more days, ETR.
I'm counting down with you, lol.
| 655 |
legalpad Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:05:31am |
re: #584 ladycatnip
This is restoring my faith in the America people - we're not stupid lemmings as the left had hoped. These are some serious and scary democratic constituents. Way to go!
congressmen fearful for their safety
Indeed. They keep their special congressional medical insurance while the rest of us are written off to die. Let us "eat cake?"
| 656 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:05:53am |
And, as Barry and his clowns have screwed up the Cash for Clunkers program, they are still dealing with the mess Bush made (sarcasm)
Recession Worse Than Prior Estimates, Revisions Show ...
"July 31 (Bloomberg) -- The first 12 months of the U.S. recession saw the economy shrink more than twice as much as previously estimated, reflecting even bigger declines in consumer spending and housing, revised figures showed."
[Link: www.bloomberg.com...]
| 657 |
MrSilverDragon Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:06:46am |
re: #652 Desert Dog
Cool science article:
Scientists Turn Aluminum into Strange Material
And, I am off to work...have fun
So, they were right in Star Trek 4 about the transparent aluminum? Wow. Science Fiction to fact, I love technology!
| 658 |
Ward Cleaver Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:07:13am |
The whole "cash for clunkers" thing is a fiasco. The government has no idea how many rebates are going out, and car dealers may be on the hook for taxes on the rebates (the law says specifically that the rebates aren't taxable as income for buyers, but says nothing about dealers).
Plus, no parts can be salvaged from the vehicles, and dealers are specifically instructed to destroy the engines. Stupid.
| 659 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:08:10am |
re: #653 vxbush
Thanks for the correction. But they have been sitting on paperwork that had to be submitted, and so they had three weeks of forms to submit.
Now: Why is it that you can sell cars using a Fed program before the Fed program is really up and running? To me, that's craziness.
The difference in dates doesn't make a lot of sense to me, either. I'm speculating, but I'd guess that they announced a starting date for the program, then got tripped up in the implementation and didn't want to move back the announced eligibility date, so they wound up with this strange overlap. But this is pure guesswork.
| 660 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:08:14am |
re: #656 Walter L. Newton
And, as Barry and his clowns have screwed up the Cash for Clunkers program, they are still dealing with the mess Bush made (sarcasm)
Recession Worse Than Prior Estimates, Revisions Show ...
"July 31 (Bloomberg) -- The first 12 months of the U.S. recession saw the economy shrink more than twice as much as previously estimated, reflecting even bigger declines in consumer spending and housing, revised figures showed."
[Link: www.bloomberg.com...]
has BO explained yet how Porkulus will respond to 10.5% unemployment rather than 8.5%?...whoops!
| 661 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:08:30am |
Jul 31, 2009 6:03 am US/Eastern - Government Suspends 'Clunkers' Program - At Current Rate, Giving Out $3,500 Or $4,500 Per Vehicle Would Burn Through $1 Billion Allocated In No Time - NYC Car Dealers: How Could Obama Administration Mess This Up?
Er, because barry and his clowns have no clue to what they are doing. They all need to go back and organize some community project.
[Link: wcbstv.com...]
| 662 |
Ward Cleaver Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:09:04am |
Seeing how screwed up the CFC program is, can you imagine the government running health care?
| 663 |
MrSilverDragon Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:09:53am |
re: #662 Ward Cleaver
Seeing how screwed up the CFC program is, can you imagine the government running health care?
I can imagine them ruining it, that's for sure.
| 664 |
Throbert McGee Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:10:38am |
re: #262 gmsc
The worst part about the quiz is how you feel when you see the answers you missed.
It's especially funny to see people who missed "arm" or "leg".
Anyone else get foreign-language "interference"? As the clock was in the final 30 seconds, I must've wasted at least 15 of them fixating on idea that I was overlooking an obvious word relating to the face or head. And then my brain pulls it out of memory and goes, triumphantly: "Eureka -- lob!"
Which does have three letters and means "forehead," but in Russian (лоб).
Stupid brain need coffee!
P.S. And of course, I actually did overlook a 3-letter English word related to the face/head (only got 8) -- but it was definitely the red-herring lob that my memory was grasping at, for some reason.
| 665 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:11:04am |
re: #662 Ward Cleaver
Seeing how screwed up the CFC program is, can you imagine the government running health care?
Cash for Fogies !
Turn 'em in !
$5,000 rebate, Tax-Free !
| 666 |
Kronocide Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:11:14am |
re: #662 Ward Cleaver
Seeing how screwed up the CFC program is, can you imagine the government running health care?
Whoa! That's a little strong on the reality doncha think? GHC needs to be awesome and it can be if you have the Hope! Hope Ward, HOPE!
| 667 |
FrogMarch Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:11:22am |
re: #636 Walter L. Newton
You don't have all the information. On KOA radio this morning, the President of the Colorado chapter of the Car Dealers Association was on the radio.
Most of the problem with the program is that the dealer has to handle 19 different PDF forms that need to be faxed to different departments when they make one of these deals.
According to this gentleman, availability was only a small part of this. Most of the problem was with the rules, processes and paperwork, and the fact that even the car dealers did not have good guidance on how the program worked.
It was because of standard government FUBAR, not simply a supply problem.
Barry and his clowns blew it.
KOA is great in the morning. Lots of good info.
| 668 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:11:27am |
re: #658 Ward Cleaver
The whole "cash for clunkers" thing is a fiasco. The government has no idea how many rebates are going out, and car dealers may be on the hook for taxes on the rebates (the law says specifically that the rebates aren't taxable as income for buyers, but says nothing about dealers).
Plus, no parts can be salvaged from the vehicles, and dealers are specifically instructed to destroy the engines. Stupid.
The cars that are still reasonable and running could be given to the poor as a way to get to a job opportunity or to college kids to get to school. Or to charities to sell them for cash.
The inmates are running the asylum.
| 669 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:11:29am |
U.S. missile defence test hailed a success as North Korea tensions rise...
What, I thought Barry and his clowns were going to unclench the fists of all these dictators?
Now we are getting prepared to launch a few if need be. Boy, the progressives are going to be mad.
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]
| 670 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:11:32am |
re: #662 Ward Cleaver
Seeing how screwed up the CFC program is, can you imagine the government running health care?
drooling spinblab is a powerful weapon and BOs minions have used it well so far...I hate the MSM with a passion...they are killing us
| 671 |
avanti Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:11:32am |
re: #640 sattv4u2
The system was overwhelmed with the success of the program
They've estimated some 200,000 deals have been made
In the US, the LOW average of all car sales in a year os 20,000,000
overwhelmed my toukas!
I wish we sold 20,000,000 million a year, they are praying for 10 million. Your comment would make more sense if the CFC deal had been running for a year, but all those deals were done in 4 days. Some dealers sold more cars in a day, than a normal month, and overwhelmed the system. That and some dealers were holding deals made weeks ago and dumped them in. BTW, the deal is not suspended yet, my friend just got a call to come in and finish her deal this weekend.
| 672 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:11:44am |
re: #662 Ward Cleaver
Seeing how screwed up the CFC program is, can you imagine the government running health care?
"Mr. Cleaver. I know you came in here for knee replacement surgery, but seeing that the parts are on back order, we installed a pinetree airfreshener instead. Please check back with us in, oh, say 16 months or so!"
| 673 |
Erik The Red Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:11:49am |
re: #654 SasquatchOnSteroids
Yep, not me.
2 more days, ETR.
I'm counting down with you, lol.
LOL. Thanks. I will not be posting much, for a few day, come Sunday afternoon. :))
| 674 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:12:16am |
re: #662 Ward Cleaver
Seeing how screwed up the CFC program is, can you imagine the government running health care?
It does not speak well for the Administration's ability to perform simple economic projections.
Although it's certain that add-on incentives - like Chrysler's twofering of the CFC amount, taking as much as $9000 of the price of some vehicles, couldn't have been anticipated and certainly created much more "buzz" for the program than the $4500 alone would have generated.
| 675 |
opnion Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:12:18am |
re: #660 albusteve
has BO explained yet how Porkulus will respond to 10.5% unemployment rather than 8.5%?...whoops!
BHO was addressing a group of adoring supporters the other day & actualy said that there were no earmarks or pork in the stimulus.
| 676 |
Lincolntf Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:12:22am |
re: #661 Walter L. Newton
They think they were overwhelmed by a few thousand extra car customers? Geez. Wait until people think that the medical treatment floodgates have been opened by Obama, and then the Government has to curtail THAT program.
Total madness will ensue.
| 677 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:12:26am |
re: #667 FrogMarch
KOA is great in the morning. Lots of good info.
Yes, but according to Avanti, the program is a success, the problems are all the car dealers fault. Bullshit!
| 678 |
avanti Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:13:27am |
re: #648 Lincolntf
You know the deal...
It's a great program!! It's failure proves it's greatness!!
Orwell had nothing on Avanti (or Obama, for that matter).
Why is it a failure exactly ? The July car sales should be the best of the year, the dealers are busy selling cars, and that should help kick start the industry.
| 679 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:14:00am |
re: #675 opnion
BHO was addressing a group of adoring supporters the other day & actualy said that there were no earmarks or pork in the stimulus.
2+2=5...there is no cure
| 680 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:14:04am |
re: #671 avanti
I wish we sold 20,000,000 million a year, they are praying for 10 million. Your comment would make more sense if the CFC deal had been running for a year, but all those deals were done in 4 days. Some dealers sold more cars in a day, than a normal month, and overwhelmed the system. That and some dealers were holding deals made weeks ago and dumped them in. BTW, the deal is not suspended yet, my friend just got a call to come in and finish her deal this weekend.
Did you even read my comment above? It is NOT JUST A availability issue, again...
You don't have all the information. On KOA radio this morning, the President of the Colorado chapter of the Car Dealers Association was on the radio.
Most of the problem with the program is that the dealer has to handle 19 different PDF forms that need to be faxed to different departments when they make one of these deals.
According to this gentleman, availability was only a small part of this. Most of the problem was with the rules, processes and paperwork, and the fact that even the car dealers did not have good guidance on how the program worked.
It was because of standard government FUBAR, not simply a supply problem.
Barry and his clowns blew it.
| 681 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:14:08am |
re: #676 Lincolntf
They think they were overwhelmed by a few thousand extra car customers? Geez. Wait until people think that the medical treatment floodgates have been opened by Obama, and then the Government has to curtail THAT program.
Total madness will ensue.
Excellent point.
| 682 |
legalpad Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:14:11am |
re: #677 Walter L. Newton
Yes, but according to Avanti, the program is a success, the problems are all the car dealers fault. Bullshit!
Some of the dealers are profitable, yet they are being cut off. Simple gangsterism. Nothing more, nothing less.
| 683 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:14:14am |
re: #647 SasquatchOnSteroids
The Great Gazoo, just wikid.
One of the bloggers on the Onion's AV Club (great pop culture site, but very moonbatty) has a theory that Marlon Brando, towards the end of his life and career, had his own Great Gazoo who advised him on some of the really horrible acting roles he took.
| 684 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:14:52am |
re: #671 avanti
all those deals were done in 4 days.
No; the program was retroactive to July 1, and there were already three weeks or more worth of deals in the pipeline when the bookkeeping finally opened up. So it's more like a month's worth of deals.
| 685 |
vxbush Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:15:28am |
re: #659 SixDegrees
The difference in dates doesn't make a lot of sense to me, either. I'm speculating, but I'd guess that they announced a starting date for the program, then got tripped up in the implementation and didn't want to move back the announced eligibility date, so they wound up with this strange overlap. But this is pure guesswork.
But they were willing to change the mpg of the cars being turned in, from 19 down to 18, the day before the program went live. They could have changed the start date as well.
| 686 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:15:36am |
re: #678 avanti
Why is it a failure exactly ? The July car sales should be the best of the year, the dealers are busy selling cars, and that should help kick start the industry.
get the fucking feds out of the car business
| 687 |
opnion Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:15:54am |
re: #668 VioletTiger
The cars that are still reasonable and running could be given to the poor as a way to get to a job opportunity or to college kids to get to school. Or to charities to sell them for cash.
The inmates are running the asylum.
Yeah but the whole idea is that the clunkers are not fuel efficient & harm the environment. Those concerns are of course more important to this Administration than peoples lives.
| 688 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:16:17am |
re: #665 SasquatchOnSteroids
Cash for Fogies !
Turn 'em in !
$5,000 rebate, Tax-Free !
And extra cash for their gold fillings!
| 689 |
avanti Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:17:25am |
re: #677 Walter L. Newton
Yes, but according to Avanti, the program is a success, the problems are all the car dealers fault. Bullshit!
Whoever said it was the dealers fault was in error. The dealers were concerned the money was running out, and so was the government, but it's trying to kick in another 2 billion today.
| 690 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:17:29am |
re: #676 Lincolntf
They think they were overwhelmed by a few thousand extra car customers? Geez. Wait until people think that the medical treatment floodgates have been opened by Obama, and then the Government has to curtail THAT program.
Total madness will ensue.
Right now, there is a lot of 'better do it now' medicine going on. My sister-in-law is a nurse and she is seeing it at the hospital.
Plus, my doctor shut his doors to new patients. I wonder how much of that is going around.
| 691 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:17:40am |
Once again, I will ask:
How many people picked up a car payment because of CFC that didn't have one before?
| 692 |
Lincolntf Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:17:47am |
re: #678 avanti
Have you read the papers? It's a total failure. Nobody knows where the money is, nobody knows how many cars are effected, and there has certainly been no change in the flippin' environment!
The only possible success story is the success of the Admin. in transforming functioning automobiles into bills for the next generation to pay.
If that's progress, give me stagnation every time.
| 693 |
Beach Lover Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:19:19am |
To add to the above comments...many dealers had paid for all those TV ads you still see right now. Regardless of how stupid and annoying they are...they cost big bucks for airtime. All that money is now lost and the ads are wrong.
| 694 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:19:46am |
re: #691 Cannadian Club Akbar
Once again, I will ask:
How many people picked up a car payment because of CFC that didn't have one before?
Oh geez, I hope these people don't start defaulting on the car loans. Just what we don't need right now--more people under water.
| 695 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:20:01am |
re: #692 Lincolntf
Have you read the papers? It's a total failure. Nobody knows where the money is, nobody knows how many cars are effected, and there has certainly been no change in the flippin' environment!
The only possible success story is the success of the Admin. in transforming functioning automobiles into bills for the next generation to pay.
If that's progress, give me stagnation every time.
and these people resent being called full blown raging socialists...man there is some mental disability right there...what's her name even has her feelings hurt...good lawd almighty these people are stupid
| 696 |
_RememberTonyC Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:20:05am |
re: #630 SasquatchOnSteroids
Reminds me of that little genie dude that would pop up over Fred Flintstones shoulder every once in a while. What the hell was his name ?
kazoo?
| 697 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:20:34am |
re: #688 Mad Al-Jaffee
And extra cash for their gold fillings!
I'll tell you, I really fear for the elderly in this country right now.
My wife is a nurse and there's some do it now medicine going on according to her.
Scary.
| 698 |
avanti Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:21:20am |
re: #684 SixDegrees
No; the program was retroactive to July 1, and there were already three weeks or more worth of deals in the pipeline when the bookkeeping finally opened up. So it's more like a month's worth of deals.
True, but very few deals were made before the official kick off. The dealer I worked with said I was his second deal on opening day. You did not see the clunkers pile up on the lots until day one.
| 699 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:21:20am |
re: #690 VioletTiger
Right now, there is a lot of 'better do it now' medicine going on. My sister-in-law is a nurse and she is seeing it at the hospital.
Plus, my doctor shut his doors to new patients. I wonder how much of that is going around.
Yes !
| 700 |
opnion Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:22:01am |
re: #692 Lincolntf
Have you read the papers? It's a total failure. Nobody knows where the money is, nobody knows how many cars are effected, and there has certainly been no change in the flippin' environment!
The only possible success story is the success of the Admin. in transforming functioning automobiles into bills for the next generation to pay.
If that's progress, give me stagnation every time.
What we are seeing is the Chicago Way at work. There is no transparency, Rush to close deals(hey youse don need to read no bill)
Shifting blame elsewhere & playing off of racial tensions.
| 701 |
MrSilverDragon Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:22:37am |
re: #696 _RememberTonyC
kazoo?
It's the Great Gazoo, actually (I found it after looking at Korman on IMDB). Ah, classic TV...
| 702 |
Sheila Broflovski Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:22:52am |
re: #678 avanti
Why is it a failure exactly ? The July car sales should be the best of the year, the dealers are busy selling cars, and that should help kick start the industry.
Why do you think people drive beat-up old clunkers? Because they hate the environment and want to foul up the atmosphere and contribute to global climate change, just because they are evil?
Or maybe they need transport and don't make a fortune at the poker tables like you do, and can't afford to buy a new car.
| 703 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:22:57am |
re: #689 avanti
Whoever said it was the dealers fault was in error. The dealers were concerned the money was running out, and so was the government, but it's trying to kick in another 2 billion today.
It was the gov't beauracracy's fault. The system (computer) they had in place to process the dealers claims kept crashing. Nobody knew how many claims were in process. Nobody knew where their claims stood.
This is the SAME gov't that wants to take over processing health cars claims. I am willing to bet that there are 100 times, no make that 1,000 more health care claims per day than new car sales.
AND ,, when health care is "FREE" you'll have every freeloader going to the doctor every time they sneeze, hiccup or feel a twinge in a muscle
| 704 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:25:10am |
re: #697 SasquatchOnSteroids
I'll tell you, I really fear for the elderly in this country right now.
My wife is a nurse and there's some do it now medicine going on according to her.
Scary.
Just wait until we have socialized medicine and people above a certain age will be denied transplants, operations and other procedures and left to die.
| 705 |
vxbush Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:25:25am |
re: #703 sattv4u2
It was the gov't beauracracy's fault. The system (computer) they had in place to process the dealers claims kept crashing. Nobody knew how many claims were in process. Nobody knew where their claims stood.
This is the SAME gov't that wants to take over processing health cars claims. I am willing to bet that there are 100 times, no make that 1,000 more health care claims per day than new car sales.
AND ,, when health care is "FREE" you'll have every freeloader going to the doctor every time they sneeze, hiccup or feel a twinge in a muscle
Some people do that now--but they go to the emergency room instead.
| 706 |
avanti Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:25:26am |
re: #700 opnion
What we are seeing is the Chicago Way at work. There is no transparency, Rush to close deals(hey youse don need to read no bill)
Shifting blame elsewhere & playing off of racial tensions.
I'll admit we read different papers in Maryland, but we are reading the program was too successful, and the money was used up faster then expected. We won't know how many extra cars were sold until the July sales figures are released, but I expect a record month.
| 707 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:25:44am |
re: #689 avanti
Whoever said it was the dealers fault was in error. The dealers were concerned the money was running out, and so was the government, but it's trying to kick in another 2 billion today.
Where did I ever say it was the car dealers fault. I said the president of the Colorado Car Dealers Association said supply is not the problem, it's the 19 pages of PDF forms, paperwork, rules, lack of funds etc.
IT'S BARRY AND HIS CLOWNS THAT ARE THE PROBLEM.
| 708 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:26:20am |
re: #698 avanti
True, but very few deals were made before the official kick off. The dealer I worked with said I was his second deal on opening day. You did not see the clunkers pile up on the lots until day one.
I disagree; a lot of deals were already in the pipeline prior to the 24th. And like so many car deals, transfer of the vehicles themselves didn't take place until the program "officially" kicked off; there's no downside in letting people hang onto their trade-ins, since condition doesn't affect the transaction in any way, only EPA mileage of the vehicles involved. Around here, dealers have reported heavy activity all month.
| 709 |
opnion Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:26:28am |
re: #697 SasquatchOnSteroids
I'll tell you, I really fear for the elderly in this country right now.
My wife is a nurse and there's some do it now medicine going on according to her.
Scary.
It seems like Obama thinks that ailing seniors are violating their warranty & really need to take a pill & get a little end of life counseling.
This really is a revealing mind set when you combine it with his failure to support the Born Alive Infants Protection Act in the Illinois Senate.
| 710 |
vxbush Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:26:41am |
re: #706 avanti
I'll admit we read different papers in Maryland, but we are reading the program was too successful, and the money was used up faster then expected. We won't know how many extra cars were sold until the July sales figures are released, but I expect a record month.
But it will be a blip, because the car sales will go down. One month of free money will not change what regular people can afford after that month.
| 711 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:26:58am |
re: #706 avanti
I'll admit we read different papers in Maryland, but we are reading the program was too successful, and the money was used up faster then expected. We won't know how many extra cars were sold until the July sales figures are released, but I expect a record month.
why is it the feds are preoccupied with this program in the first place?
| 712 |
apachegunner Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:27:07am |
just heard on the radio. cash for clunkers is a trial balloon for the real program "cash for cripples", which will be a part of the health program. turn in your cripples, get a few K$s and we will save money on the program to further insure the world.
| 713 |
Creeping Eruption Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:27:28am |
re: #707 Walter L. Newton
Where did I ever say it was the car dealers fault. I said the president of the Colorado Car Dealers Association said supply is not the problem, it's the 19 pages of PDF forms, paperwork, rules, lack of funds etc.
IT'S BARRY AND HIS CLOWNS THAT ARE THE PROBLEM.
I'll bet his clowns had no problem getting a shiny, new, energy efficient clown car - with rainbow paint scheme!
| 714 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:27:39am |
re: #706 avanti
I'll admit we read different papers in Maryland, but we are reading the program was too successful, and the money was used up faster then expected. We won't know how many extra cars were sold until the July sales figures are released, but I expect a record month.
That's the spin that the government is trying to tell us. I will say it one more time. The president of the Colorado Car Dealers Association says the problem is with dealing with the government, not availability. As I sit here, they have played the interview on the radio at least 3 times in the last hour.
BARRY BLEW IT AGAIN.
| 715 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:27:51am |
re: #702 Alouette
Why do you think people drive beat-up old clunkers? Because they hate the environment and want to foul up the atmosphere and contribute to global climate change, just because they are evil?
Or maybe they need transport and don't make a fortune at the poker tables like you do, and can't afford to buy a new car.
I keep one "clunker" to save mileage on our newer cars. I drive the "clunker" to work 3-4 times a week (60 mile roundtrip). Also, if one of our 3 cars has to go into the shop for several days, I don't have to worry about renting a car for several days or the 2 of us scheduling when we can use the 1 remaning car
| 716 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:31:02am |
re: #712 apachegunner
just heard on the radio. cash for clunkers is a trial balloon for the real program "cash for cripples", which will be a part of the health program. turn in your cripples, get a few K$s and we will save money on the program to further insure the world.
"Don't worry where we're going Granny ,,, just shut up and get in the car"
| 717 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:31:07am |
re: #714 Walter L. Newton
That's the spin that the government is trying to tell us. I will say it one more time. The president of the Colorado Car Dealers Association says the problem is with dealing with the government, not availability. As I sit here, they have played the interview on the radio at least 3 times in the last hour.
BARRY BLEW IT AGAIN.
micro focused on some ridiculous attempt to boost car sales, completely oblivious to the bigger picture of govt intrusion into the lives of private citizens...liberals talk some bad policy to death just to make themselves sound intelligent and informed...elitists
| 718 |
avanti Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:31:16am |
re: #707 Walter L. Newton
Where did I ever say it was the car dealers fault. I said the president of the Colorado Car Dealers Association said supply is not the problem, it's the 19 pages of PDF forms, paperwork, rules, lack of funds etc.
IT'S BARRY AND HIS CLOWNS THAT ARE THE PROBLEM.
Actually, it's congresses fault for not guessing the money would run out so fast. The German program was funded with a 5 billion dollar appropriation and they have only 80 million people. Detroit wanted 4 billion, but that was cut back with the option to revisit the deal which they are doing today..
| 719 |
Sheila Broflovski Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:31:23am |
re: #715 sattv4u2
I keep one "clunker" to save mileage on our newer cars. I drive the "clunker" to work 3-4 times a week (60 mile roundtrip). Also, if one of our 3 cars has to go into the shop for several days, I don't have to worry about renting a car for several days or the 2 of us scheduling when we can use the 1 remaning car
We used to have 2 cars, but now we have only one. It used to be a nice car, but my husband turned in into a clunker by falling asleep at the wheel and smashing off the right front fender, and also his slovenly habits of smoking, eating and drinking soda while driving.
I would turn in a used old man for a new car. (JUST KIDDING!)
| 720 |
opnion Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:31:55am |
re: #706 avanti
I'll admit we read different papers in Maryland, but we are reading the program was too successful, and the money was used up faster then expected. We won't know how many extra cars were sold until the July sales figures are released, but I expect a record month.
Avanti, my criticism of this Administration is beyond the clunkers program, that is just another thing. If the government is at fault for the glitches, Obama will shift the blame.
What is becoming rather obvious is that BHO is an immature narcissist & he is trying to do so much at the same time with a radical transformation agenda that his programs are becoming train wrecks.
| 721 |
Lincolntf Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:32:03am |
re: #714 Walter L. Newton
You can't reason with a zealot. There is nothing (not even the fact that it's already been shut down) that will convince Avanti (and the simple-minded Obama mouthpieces in the media) that this program was anything but a smashing success.
Failure is success!
Cancellation is expansion!
Debts are boons!
| 722 |
Creeping Eruption Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:32:21am |
re: #719 Alouette
We used to have 2 cars, but now we have only one. It used to be a nice car, but my husband turned in into a clunker by falling asleep at the wheel and smashing off the right front fender, and also his slovenly habits of smoking, eating and drinking soda while driving.
I would turn in a used old man for a new car. (JUST KIDDING!)
Lol. Sounds like a real peach to drive with.
| 723 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:32:39am |
re: #718 avanti
Actually, it's congresses fault for not guessing the money would run out so fast. The German program was funded with a 5 billion dollar appropriation and they have only 80 million people. Detroit wanted 4 billion, but that was cut back with the option to revisit the deal which they are doing today..
and who voted that congress into power?...the one digit congress?
| 724 |
ladycatnip Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:33:25am |
#604 Six Degrees
Frankly, I deplore this sort of behavior. It flies in the face of the free interchange of ideas to shout someone down who you disagree with, and it is just plain rude.
I've decried it for years when the Left was using these tactics to shut down discussion, and it is every bit as bad when the Right indulges in them.
The only noteworthy difference is the sudden interest of the media in such behavior, when it went without comment for years when perpetrated by Leftist thugs instead of the the thugs on the Right. How many pieings did Republican speakers have to put up with that were laughed off by the media? The inconsistency here is as appalling as the violation of civility itself.
You completely missed my point and instead moralized about civic behavior. These are democrats angry with the people they themselves put into office! These same elected officials were pretty mute when the libs would behave this way to conservatives, but now these people don't like what their elected officials and Obama are doing. They're tired of the patronizing "we know what's best for you". Said elected officials are stunned and bewildered that this is happening to them.
Pathetic that the only comparison given on the right was one birther confronting a republican:
But Democrats are quick to point out they’re not the only ones facing hostile audiences. They single out Rep. Mike Castle (R-Del.), who found himself in a confrontation earlier this month with a “birther” protester, and insist that Republicans face a backlash of their own if it appears the party is too closely aligned with tea party activists or other conservative-oriented protesters.
The Tea Party protests were civil and peaceful, as normally those on the right aren't easily whipped up into angry mobs. The dems have a problem on their hands.
| 725 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:33:28am |
re: #703 sattv4u2
It was the gov't beauracracy's fault. The system (computer) they had in place to process the dealers claims kept crashing. Nobody knew how many claims were in process. Nobody knew where their claims stood.
This is the SAME gov't that wants to take over processing health cars claims. I am willing to bet that there are 100 times, no make that 1,000 more health care claims per day than new car sales.
AND ,, when health care is "FREE" you'll have every freeloader going to the doctor every time they sneeze, hiccup or feel a twinge in a muscle
Obama should look to his homestate of Hawaii and see what a mess their dip into the free healthcare gave them. The 'keiki care' program was supposed to give health care to uninsured kids, but parents who already had insurance jumped in because of the cost and just overwhelmed the system.
| 726 |
avanti Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:33:44am |
re: #720 opnion
Avanti, my criticism of this Administration is beyond the clunkers program, that is just another thing. If the government is at fault for the glitches, Obama will shift the blame.
What is becoming rather obvious is that BHO is an immature narcissist & he is trying to do so much at the same time with a radical transformation agenda that his programs are becoming train wrecks.
Yep, he's a liberal, and liberals change things, but even a liberal can try and do too much at once, we'll see.
| 727 |
Sheila Broflovski Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:33:48am |
re: #722 Creeping Eruption
Lol. Sounds like a real peach to drive with.
I forgot to mention the seat adjustments.
| 728 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:34:11am |
re: #718 avanti
Actually, it's congresses fault for not guessing the money would run out so fast. The German program was funded with a 5 billion dollar appropriation and they have only 80 million people. Detroit wanted 4 billion, but that was cut back with the option to revisit the deal which they are doing today..
Er, the Congress is top loaded with Democrats, isn't it. Like I said before, Barry's clowns, Barry's administration, Barry's supporters... once again the Democrats prove they have no idea how to successfully run a government program.
Heaven help us if we get all that wonderful health care.
| 729 |
opnion Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:34:18am |
re: #712 apachegunner
just heard on the radio. cash for clunkers is a trial balloon for the real program "cash for cripples", which will be a part of the health program. turn in your cripples, get a few K$s and we will save money on the program to further insure the world.
Soylent Green is people!
| 730 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:34:19am |
re: #719 Alouette
We used to have 2 cars, but now we have only one. It used to be a nice car, but my husband turned in into a clunker by falling asleep at the wheel and smashing off the right front fender, and also his slovenly habits of smoking, eating and drinking soda while driving.
I would turn in a used old man for a new car. (JUST KIDDING!)
We're kinda out in the boonies. I have work days that last 14 hours (an hour commute in, 12 hours on site and another hour drive home) I couldn't leave wifey and 15 year old sans car for that long 4 days a week
AND no, any libs watching, there are NO public transportaion options for us, and NO "share a ride" with my hours
| 731 |
Lincolntf Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:34:21am |
re: #718 avanti
Now it's Congress' "fault"? But I thought it was working great? Don't you mean Congress should be getting the credit?
What a tangled web we weave...
| 732 |
turn Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:34:23am |
Morning all, oh we're talking about cash for clunkers. turn drives a clunker, a 96 Ford Explorer with 169k miles. Hey I paid cash for it, it runs good, the registration is cheap (in CA!), insurance is cheap, and it's powerful enough to haul my family, lab, and tow the camp trailer. Why the hell would I ever go out and buy a new car, pay exorbitant registration fees, have a new monthly payment to make, and pay more for insurance just to get $4500 from the government? This does not make economic sense to turn. My father was a wholesale used car dealer and he told me a wise thing when I was a kid. He said the cheapest way to have a car was to buy a $100 used car and when it quits running junk it and buy another $100 used car. Well you have to adjust the $100 for inflation but it's true. I've never bought a new car.
| 733 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:34:25am |
re: #709 opnion
It seems like Obama thinks that ailing seniors are violating their warranty & really need to take a pill & get a little end of life counseling.
This really is a revealing mind set when you combine it with his failure to support the Born Alive Infants Protection Act in the Illinois Senate.
But yet they scream bloody murder over any war.
| 734 |
Erik The Red Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:34:48am |
Big noise expected over Orlando shortly. Landing scheduled for 10:40ish.
| 735 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:34:50am |
re: #723 albusteve
and who voted that congress into power?...the one digit congress?
I raise one digit to them!
| 736 |
FrogMarch Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:34:53am |
re: #677 Walter L. Newton
Yes, but according to Avanti, the program is a success, the problems are all the car dealers fault. Bullshit!
that's what happens when you work backwards from a pre-conditioned notion.
| 737 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:35:18am |
re: #718 avanti
Actually, it's congresses fault for not guessing the money would run out so fast..
That's the problem with this entire administration & the Dems in Congress. They don't do their homework and analyze anything before passing important bills or starting programs.
| 738 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:35:22am |
re: #721 Lincolntf
You can't reason with a zealot. There is nothing (not even the fact that it's already been shut down) that will convince Avanti (and the simple-minded Obama mouthpieces in the media) that this program was anything but a smashing success.
Failure is success!
Cancellation is expansion!
Debts are boons!
they worship themselves and their like minded army...it's sickening...hanging on to these failed corrupt govt policies is insane...yet they babble on and on, like chattering monkeys
| 739 |
KenJen Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:35:44am |
re: #691 Cannadian Club Akbar
Once again, I will ask:
How many people picked up a car payment because of CFC that didn't have one before?
Not me. I hate car payments. Have not had to make them in 10 plus years. I have never bought a new car either-bad investment. I paid $4500 cash five years ago for a used Volvo wagon. It's the best car I've ever owned.
| 740 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:35:50am |
re: #726 avanti
Yep, he's a liberal, and liberals change things, but even a liberal can try and do too much at once, we'll see.
The whole problem is Barry is not doing anything, except screwing up. Gee, I would agree with you if he was having some success, but he's practically batting zero.
| 741 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:36:53am |
re: #726 avanti
Yep, he's a liberal, and liberals change things, but even a liberal can try and do too much at once, we'll see.
liberals destroy things...face reality...you are a problem, not a solution
| 742 |
turn Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:37:02am |
re: #734 Erik The Red
Big noise expected over Orlando shortly. Landing scheduled for 10:40ish.
Oh, I forgot about the landing. I'll have to go see NASA TV.
| 743 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:37:24am |
re: #727 Alouette
I forgot to mention the seat adjustments.
I'm sure when Mr A hit that obstacle hos seat got adjusted!
| 744 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:37:34am |
re: #734 Erik The Red
Big noise expected over Orlando shortly. Landing scheduled for 10:40ish.
Do you know which way they they are coming in?
| 745 |
Digital Display Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:38:02am |
Good Freaking Happy Friday Lizards!
It's not only friday but i start vacation again at the end of the day.. Why is the clock not even running? It's taking forever for each minute to crawl by.
How is everyone today?
| 746 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:38:06am |
re: #744 Cannadian Club Akbar
Do you know which way they they are coming in?
ummm,,, from the sky !?!?!?!?
| 747 |
avanti Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:38:22am |
re: #723 albusteve
and who voted that congress into power?...the one digit congress?
Fair enough, it's the Democrats fault for not sticking with the original funding. It is possible they cut back to get GOP votes, but I'm not sure. It's also the administrations fault to not plan for the possibility that the program would go nuts. If it had been only moderately successful, there would have been fewer problems, but then the criticism would have been about the limited success.
| 748 |
opnion Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:38:38am |
re: #726 avanti
Yep, he's a liberal, and liberals change things, but even a liberal can try and do too much at once, we'll see.
Your point is taken, Liberals tend to be activists. Liberals do not need to have a radical agenda though & it is really hard to contend that this Administration is nor radical.
| 749 |
Creeping Eruption Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:38:47am |
re: #745 HoosierHoops
Good Freaking Happy Friday Lizards!
It's not only friday but i start vacation again at the end of the day.. Why is the clock not even running? It's taking forever for each minute to crawl by.
How is everyone today?
Going anywhere special, or is being off work vacation enough? (it is for me)
| 750 |
Erik The Red Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:39:46am |
re: #739 KenJen
Not me. I hate car payments. Have not had to make them in 10 plus years. I have never bought a new car either-bad investment. I paid $4500 cash five years ago for a used Volvo wagon. It's the best car I've ever owned.
I agree 100%. Unfortunately I am going to have to finance my 2cd car. I need to get a credit rating so I can buy my home in the next 6 months. I have no history here so I am in a catch 22 position. :((
| 751 |
jcm Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:39:48am |
My question is why is the Federal Government using taxpayers money to buy clunkers in the first place? And don't give me the bullshit "it's for the environment" answer. It was tacked onto a military appropriations bill, and who's gonna' vote against supporting the troops. How much of the $1B is overhead? How many cars is it really going to get off the road?
It's just another feel good, boondoggle, a great deal of sound and fury with little to show for it. If you split the difference the average cost per clunker is $4000, that means they'll get 250,000 cars, the actual number will be far less because of the overhead and inefficiencies inheritance with any Federal program. Best case this program would remove less than ½ of 1% of cars from the road.
A billion here, a billion there pretty soon you are talking real money.
Between deficits and unfunded mandates we have $63,000,000,000,000.00 in liabilities in this country, $210,000 for every man woman and child in the country.
*spit*
| 752 |
turn Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:39:59am |
re: #739 KenJen
Not me. I hate car payments. Have not had to make them in 10 plus years. I have never bought a new car either-bad investment. I paid $4500 cash five years ago for a used Volvo wagon. It's the best car I've ever owned.
Morning jen, hey turn had a used Volvo 740 turbo wagon too. That was a damn good car. I'm with you on the never bought a new car thing.
| 753 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:40:24am |
re: #747 avanti
Fair enough, it's the Democrats fault for not sticking with the original funding. It is possible they cut back to get GOP votes, but I'm not sure. It's also the administrations fault to not plan for the possibility that the program would go nuts. If it had been only moderately successful, there would have been fewer problems, but then the criticism would have been about the limited success.
no, you entirely avoid the point...it goes right over your head...we had this same discussion yesterday about property rights
| 754 |
avanti Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:40:36am |
re: #731 Lincolntf
Now it's Congress' "fault"? But I thought it was working great? Don't you mean Congress should be getting the credit?
What a tangled web we weave...
Congress has never worked "great", even at passing spending bills on occasion, although that is what they do best.
| 755 |
lawhawk Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:40:37am |
re: #732 turn
Good advice. Always let someone else get hit with the depreciation. Only way that doesn't totally make sense is if you buy new with the intent to drive it til the wheels come off. That's what we did with a 2005 Toyota Corolla. We figure we'll have it for a good long time to come. Our other car is a Honda Accord I bought in 2000 used. I love that car. 200hp, gets good mileage on the highway, and had all the bells and whistles they put into the EXV6 back then. Both cars are paid off, so only routine maintenance and insurance/registration fees. That's plenty of incentive not to go and buy another car. Why should I?
Many other people make that same decision.
Meanwhile, there's word that GMAC is back in the leasing business after a hiatus. That might improve sales marginally, but credit is only going to those who can afford 'em or else you'll see higher interest rates.
| 756 |
opnion Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:40:44am |
re: #733 VioletTiger
But yet they scream bloody murder over any war.
Great point. The last war they liked was our intervention in the Balkans, because it was Clinton.
| 757 |
turn Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:41:10am |
re: #745 HoosierHoops
Morning hoops. How the hell do you crash a raft anyway?
| 758 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:41:10am |
| 759 |
Erik The Red Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:41:22am |
re: #744 Cannadian Club Akbar
Do you know which way they they are coming in?
From the South, I think.
| 760 |
Digital Display Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:41:38am |
re: #749 Creeping Eruption
Going anywhere special, or is being off work vacation enough? (it is for me)
I'll Head up to the fishing cabin in Wisc. for 4-5 days and trash it and those tasty walleye fish. There will be beer involved.
:)
| 761 |
Creeping Eruption Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:41:52am |
re: #750 Erik The Red
I agree 100%. Unfortunately I am going to have to finance my 2cd car. I need to get a credit rating so I can buy my home in the next 6 months. I have no history here so I am in a catch 22 position. :((
Get a car that will last. My wife and I actually buy cars (hers) and I drive the hand me downs. I am driving her old Saab with a 100k+ on it. I'll drive it for another 4 years and take the one she is driving now.
| 762 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:42:07am |
Last thing I need in my life is a bunch of activists busybodies and nosy rosies poking their noses in my business and telling me I should do this or do that.
| 764 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:42:28am |
re: #754 avanti
Congress has never worked "great", even at passing spending bills on occasion, although that is what they do best.
congress has no business using my money to buy cars...that fact you do not see this is why I consider liberals dangerous
| 765 |
KenJen Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:42:28am |
re: #752 turn
Morning jen, hey turn had a used Volvo 740 turbo wagon too. That was a damn good car. I'm with you on the never bought a new car thing.
I had someone offer me $3900 for it a couple of weeks ago. Not gonna happen.
| 767 |
Spider Mensch Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:43:14am |
re: #722 Creeping Eruption
Lol. Sounds like a real peach to drive with.
John Candy in Planes, trains and Automobiles...in the rented car...best scene..he ends up going the wrong way on the freeway..people on the other side yelling at him and Steve martin.."You're going the wrong way!!!..John Candy's reply to the couple's screaming.."Oh they're drunk! How do they know where we're going? "..lol
| 768 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:43:19am |
re: #762 SasquatchOnSteroids
Last thing I need in my life is a bunch of
activistsbusybodies and nosy rosies poking their noses in my business and telling me I should do this or do that.
PIMF.
| 769 |
Ward Cleaver Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:43:29am |
re: #734 Erik The Red
Big noise expected over Orlando shortly. Landing scheduled for 10:40ish.
Shuttle?
/sonic boom?
| 770 |
Digital Display Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:43:44am |
re: #757 turn
Morning hoops. How the hell do you crash a raft anyway?
You know where the rapids are? Caught a rock and ripped the raft wide open.
| 771 |
vxbush Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:43:51am |
re: #765 KenJen
I had someone offer me $3900 for it a couple of weeks ago. Not gonna happen.
The dealer keeps sending me flyer after flyer, trying to get me to turn my Camry in and get a newer car. Not gonna do it.
| 772 |
jcm Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:44:07am |
re: #762 SasquatchOnSteroids
Last thing I need in my life is a bunch of activists busybodies and nosy rosies poking their noses in my business and telling me I should do this or do that.
But you need to be told what's good for you. The simple fact you don't realize that is proof you need to be taken care of!
///
| 774 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:44:42am |
Good Morning Lizards!
Long time, no type.
| 775 |
Honorary Yooper Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:44:48am |
re: #678 avanti
Why is it a failure exactly ? The July car sales should be the best of the year, the dealers are busy selling cars, and that should help kick start the industry.
Actually, Avanti, it won't kick-start the industry. The sales are an abberation due to the government incentive. Without the incentive, I suspect August's sales should be in the toilet. They may even be worse than normal due to the demand being moved to July from August.
| 776 |
KenJen Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:44:49am |
re: #750 Erik The Red
I agree 100%. Unfortunately I am going to have to finance my 2cd car. I need to get a credit rating so I can buy my home in the next 6 months. I have no history here so I am in a catch 22 position. :((
Too bad you didn't move back here a few years ago. You wouldn't have needed any credit history..or a down payment for that matter.
| 777 |
vxbush Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:45:05am |
re: #774 Ford_Prefect
Good Morning Lizards!
Long time, no type.
Ford!
[dances, ready to bounce foot up against Ford's]
| 778 |
Digital Display Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:45:08am |
Where is my cash for Yellow Beemer Converibles?
| 779 |
Creeping Eruption Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:45:36am |
re: #760 HoosierHoops
I'll Head up to the fishing cabin in Wisc. for 4-5 days and trash it and those tasty walleye fish. There will be beer involved.
:)
There is simply nothing better than fresh caught walleye. And beer, lots of beer. Travel well, and remember if you are coming through Chicago, they have roaming speed trap camera vans in construction zones and there is a shit-load of construction on 43 north starting at the WI border. Down to one lane I understand.
| 780 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:45:40am |
re: #739 KenJen
Not me. I hate car payments. Have not had to make them in 10 plus years. I have never bought a new car either-bad investment. I paid $4500 cash five years ago for a used Volvo wagon. It's the best car I've ever owned.
My husband has a commuter car with 360,000 miles on it. We plan on replacing it this fall. We tend to use up our cars rather than jumping on the car payment bandwagon. We pay cash, which means we replace less frequently...but we also have no debt.
| 781 |
Digital Display Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:45:52am |
| 782 |
calcajun Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:45:58am |
re: #778 HoosierHoops
Where is my cash for Yellow Beemer Converibles?
Not anymore- prgram is being cancelled.
Shuttle is comin' down now!
| 783 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:46:01am |
re: #777 vxbush
Ford!
[dances, ready to bounce foot up against Ford's]
Howdy, vx. What song are we dancing to?
| 784 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:46:39am |
re: #781 HoosierHoops
FORD! Alright! welcome back!
Morning, HH. been very busy at work, but it raining today so I am in the office.
| 785 |
vxbush Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:46:45am |
re: #783 Ford_Prefect
Howdy, vx. What song are we dancing to?
Just a little tune in my head. It could be caused by the delirium of illness, but what the heck.
| 786 |
turn Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:46:55am |
re: #755 lawhawk
Morning LH, those things have 200 hp? jeez they must be zippy. Yeah, used cars are the cheapest way to get from point A to point B. Incidentally, my bro is a mechanic and drives the most beat up used cars you could imagine. One day I asked him why don't you fix your car up and have it in really great shape. He said "because I don't get paid to work on it" ha
| 787 |
Lincolntf Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:46:56am |
re: #772 jcm
I have no problem with activists "actively" doing whatever they want, but a lifetime in MA showed me that "activists" are generally far more interested in controlling what other people do than in doing anything themselves.
| 788 |
jcm Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:47:23am |
re: #752 turn
Morning jen, hey turn had a used Volvo 740 turbo wagon too. That was a damn good car. I'm with you on the never bought a new car thing.
I bought my van new, custom order from the factory. Once I decided on what I want in features on the van I spent a couple months searching nation wide for one with the options we wanted, and couldn't find one. I never would have bought it new, except for one thing, our start up just got bought out. I wrote a check for the entire purchase price.
| 789 |
lawhawk Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:47:27am |
Good news/bad news on the economy:
Good news? Economy contracted 1% in 2Q 2009, much less than estimated.
The bad news? 1Q 2009 much worse than previously reported. Much much worse. Oh, and 3Q 2008 was revised downwards significantly too:
The Commerce Department also reported today that the economy contracted at a 1 percent annual rate from April through June after shrinking at a 6.4 percent pace in the first quarter, the most since 1982. The decline in the first three months of the year was previously reported as 5.5 percent.Recession’s Start
The National Bureau of Economic Research, the accepted arbiter of U.S. business cycles, last year determined the recession started in December 2007. The private group is based in Cambridge, Massachusetts,
Today’s updates are part of comprehensive revisions that take place about every five years and are more extensive than the changes announced at this time each year. Figures as far back as 1929 can be revised.
Over the most recent period, the third quarter of 2008 underwent one of the biggest changes, going from a 0.5 percent decrease in gross domestic product to a 2.7 percent drop. The new reading better illustrates the effect the September collapse of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. had on the economy and credit markets.
I fully expect the 2Q 2009 numbers to be revised downwards from the current figure when the next data is released in October.
| 790 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:47:41am |
re: #785 vxbush
Just a little tune in my head. It could be caused by the delirium of illness, but what the heck.
Illness? If having songs in your head is a sign of illness then I would have been dead years ago.
| 792 |
turn Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:48:01am |
re: #760 HoosierHoops
reference to beer always gets a ding out of turn. have fun!
| 793 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:48:14am |
I just saw this outrageous story via the spinoffs.
Disturbing content on New Black Panther's MySpace page
The Department of Justice recently dropped the conviction of Jerry Jackson, Democratic poll watcher and member of the “New Black Panther Party for Self-Defense”.
Mr. Jackson's MySpace site is chock full of disturbing images with explicit racial overtones. They include, among many others:
"BLACK POWER,BLACK LOVE,BLACK UNITY,BLACK MINDS,KILLIN CRAKKKAS""F*** Whitey's Christmas"
An image of an execution scene from the cult hit film "Pulp Fiction"
A photo of a man holding a sign saying, "DEPORT WHITE PEOPLE"
A derogatory anti-cop poster titled "BEWARE OF PIG"
An image of Saddam Hussein before his execution
A photo of a cop sitting next to a black child in a toy car. Beneath the image the phrase "Racial Profiling: It Starts Early"
A photoshopped movie poster of the "Bourne Supremacy" is re-worded to say "The Bourne White Supremacy" A swastika is added to Matt Damon's cheek, and the scope of his firearm is photoshopped to look as if he is about to shoot a black man. The "n" word is used to describe who "Matt Damon hates" in this movie poster. The phrase, "They should have just stayed in Africa" is photoshopped at the top of the image.
It is hard to believe such web content is coming from an elected party official in Philadelphia, yet Mr. Jackson has been appointed again to be a poll watcher for the upcoming Democratic Primary in Philadelphia's municipal election. Mr. Obama may think a White House "beer summit" will help smooth over racial ills, but his justice department is doing the country no favors when they give Jerry Jackson and Malik Zulu Shabazz a free pass.
Update 10:00pm: Mr. Jackson's MySpace page has been removed. A cached version is available through the link now.
| 794 |
Digital Display Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:48:27am |
re: #784 Ford_Prefect
Morning, HH. been very busy at work, but it raining today so I am in the office.
You've missed some classic melt-downs.. Don't stay away for so long..
Hope you are well
| 795 |
Lincolntf Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:48:29am |
re: #782 calcajun
Think we could get a rebate if we traded in the Shuttle for the Millennium Falcon?
| 797 |
vxbush Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:48:50am |
re: #790 Ford_Prefect
Illness? If having songs in your head is a sign of illness then I would have been dead years ago.
Heh. Nah, I'm still not feeling that great, so I stayed home today. Sick or not, I have to pay bills later.
| 798 |
Altermite Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:49:20am |
Not a small minority in the aprty anymore: This is some really bad crazy stuff:
[Link: www.politico.com...]
| 799 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:49:37am |
re: #795 Lincolntf
Think we could get a rebate if we traded in the Shuttle for the Millennium Falcon?
You came here in that thing? You are brave.
| 801 |
Sheila Broflovski Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:50:39am |
re: #678 avanti
Why is it a failure exactly ? The July car sales should be the best of the year, the dealers are busy selling cars, and that should help kick start the industry.
You know what will kick-start the industry? Hire more people so that they have JOBS and can afford to BUY STUFF.
Michigan has an unemployment rate of 15.4%, the highest in the country.
| 802 |
avanti Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:50:47am |
re: #751 jcm
My question is why is the Federal Government using taxpayers money to buy clunkers in the first place? And don't give me the bullshit "it's for the environment" answer. It was tacked onto a military appropriations bill, and who's gonna' vote against supporting the troops. How much of the $1B is overhead? How many cars is it really going to get off the road?
It's just another feel good, boondoggle, a great deal of sound and fury with little to show for it. If you split the difference the average cost per clunker is $4000, that means they'll get 250,000 cars, the actual number will be far less because of the overhead and inefficiencies inheritance with any Federal program. Best case this program would remove less than ½ of 1% of cars from the road.
A billion here, a billion there pretty soon you are talking real money.
91,000 million to run the program, 200-250 thousand fuel efficient cars sold saving some oil, maybe kick starting car sales. The billion dollar direct rebate seems to work better then the bailouts or other programs. The GOP should use the success of the program to show how putting tax money directly in the public's hands is the best way to stimulate the economy.
Between deficits and unfunded mandates we have $63,000,000,000,000.00 in liabilities in this country, $210,000 for every man woman and child in the country.*spit*
| 803 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:50:48am |
re: #794 HoosierHoops
You've missed some classic melt-downs.. Don't stay away for so long..
Hope you are well
It hasn't been by choice. As I said I have been very busy. The company I work for, like a lot of companies, has downsized it's workforce, so those of us that are left have a lot more on our plates. I'm not complaining, though. It is better than being one of the downsized.
| 804 |
lawhawk Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:51:01am |
re: #786 turn
Yeah, my 1998 Honda Accord was a V-6 with 200hp. It definitely was a fast mover and worked wonders traveling on the Palisades and up and down the hills in Northern NJ and Rockland Cty NY. Now, it comes in handy going to the garden centers and for long distance trips.
The new Honda Accords come with a 240 hp engine in their top trim level. Great ride.
| 805 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:51:23am |
re: #793 NJDhockeyfan
Wow, that did bad things for my blood pressure. I still can't believe they let these guys off the hook.
| 806 |
calcajun Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:51:30am |
re: #795 Lincolntf
Funny, that. There's some news out there that they are trying to come up with some form of ion propulsion for the proposed Mars trip.
| 807 |
lawhawk Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:51:31am |
re: #795 Lincolntf
For that piece of junk? Wow. You're braver than you look. /
| 809 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:51:50am |
Anyone know of any books about left-wing terrorism in the 70s - Baader-Meinhoff, Red Brigades, etc. - that aren't sympathetic to the terrorists?
| 810 |
avanti Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:51:55am |
re: #775 Honorary Yooper
Actually, Avanti, it won't kick-start the industry. The sales are an abberation due to the government incentive. Without the incentive, I suspect August's sales should be in the toilet. They may even be worse than normal due to the demand being moved to July from August.
We can't know that, we'll have to wait and see.
| 812 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:52:33am |
re: #797 vxbush
Heh. Nah, I'm still not feeling that great, so I stayed home today. Sick or not, I have to pay bills later.
Sorry to hear that. Don't worry about the bills, though. Obama's going to take care of all that for you. He'll just sit down and have a beer with the people you owe money to and straighten it all out. Then he will sit down with you and discuss which pill you are supposed to take; red or blue.
| 813 |
vxbush Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:53:18am |
re: #812 Ford_Prefect
Sorry to hear that. Don't worry about the bills, though. Obama's going to take care of all that for you. He'll just sit down and have a beer with the people you owe money to and straighten it all out. Then he will sit down with you and discuss which pill you are supposed to take; red or blue.
Ford, step away from the Improbability Engine. You've been taken to the wrong side of the galaxy.
| 814 |
turn Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:53:26am |
re: #765 KenJen
I had someone offer me $3900 for it a couple of weeks ago. Not gonna happen.
I think mine was a 76 IIRC, I paid like $2500 for it about 10 years ago and drove that thing for many years. Only repair I had to make other than routine maintenance was swapping out the wiring harness. Evidently this was typical for that year, they had some bad packeting on the wires that would break down with heat.
| 815 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:53:26am |
| 817 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:53:43am |
re: #807 lawhawk
For that piece of junk? Wow. You're braver than you look. /
We don't have time to discuss this as a committee.
| 818 |
MandyManners Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:53:44am |
re: #809 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
Anyone know of any books about left-wing terrorism in the 70s - Baader-Meinhoff, Red Brigades, etc. - that aren't sympathetic to the terrorists?
The Terror Network by Claire Sterling.
| 819 |
drcordell Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:53:54am |
OT: 28% of Republicans are self-admitted Nirthers. Another 30% say they are "undecided" as to whether Obama was born in the U.S. Can you say rump party?
Source
| 820 |
lawhawk Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:53:54am |
re: #775 Honorary Yooper
Not only are you talking shifting sales, but many of those sales would have occurred anyway. People need to buy cars when their old ones give out, etc.
I don't expect much of a bump from the program.
| 821 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:53:58am |
re: #813 vxbush
Ford, step away from the Improbability Engine. You've been taken to the wrong side of the galaxy.
Probably...
| 822 |
Kronocide Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:54:03am |
re: #706 avanti
I'll admit we read different papers in Maryland, but we are reading the program was too successful...
I don't know if our definition of success matches. People merely partaking in a program doesn't necessarily mean it's successful, it only means people partook in the program.
If the goal of the program was to 'get clunkers off the street and save the environment' then we need to understand how much gas mileage/oil/carbon was saved per dollar spent. How many dollars did our government spend to save a yearly ton of carbon emissions?
If the goal of the program was to save the economy, then we need to understand how much effect we've gotten for the dollars spent. Instead of giving mass rebates (that only help certain segments of the population) why couldn't the government reduce taxes on car dealerships equal to the billions they just spent giving the money away?
Those are the metrics of success, not whether the program ran out of money or not, or whether people used it or not. All it succeeded in doing was to spend billions more to help some people with older cars buy new ones.
| 823 |
Erik The Red Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:54:09am |
| 824 |
KenJen Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:54:14am |
re: #760 HoosierHoops
I'll Head up to the fishing cabin in Wisc. for 4-5 days and trash it and those tasty walleye fish. There will be beer involved.
:)
Fun. I used to go up to my Grandmother's fishing cabin in Rhinelander, WI every summer. Used to fish for bluegills with a cane pole. It sits on Coon Lake. Beautiful up there. Have fun. I'm jealous.
| 825 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:54:53am |
Just think how much more stimulated the economy would be if they had just cut out income taxes for all tax payers for just three months. What a great kick in the butt that would have been. Real money in real pockets. I would have spent it. Instead, here we wallow in stagnation and the stimuls has hardly been spent, and most of what was spent was a big waste.
Way to go Dems.
| 826 |
lawhawk Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:55:11am |
Come to think of it, you know who might benefit quite a bit from the cash for clunkers program? Car rental companies - selling off their oldest inventory and worst performing cars by mpg, and updating to newer models.
| 827 |
vxbush Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:55:33am |
re: #825 VioletTiger
Just think how much more stimulated the economy would be if they had just cut out income taxes for all tax payers for just three months. What a great kick in the butt that would have been. Real money in real pockets. I would have spent it. Instead, here we wallow in stagnation and the stimuls has hardly been spent, and most of what was spent was a big waste.
Way to go Dems.
Or even just halving the taxes for that same amount of time. Would have worked wonders.
| 828 |
wahabicorridor Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:56:04am |
re: #809 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
Anyone know of any books about left-wing terrorism in the 70s - Baader-Meinhoff, Red Brigades, etc. - that aren't sympathetic to the terrorists?
Yes.
Baader-Meinhof: The Inside Story of the R.A.F. (Hardcover)
The author, Stefan Aust actually knew some of them personally. He actually helped kidnap Meinhof's kids. She threatened to kill him.
| 829 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:56:13am |
| 830 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:56:44am |
| 831 |
turn Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:56:55am |
re: #770 HoosierHoops
You know where the rapids are? Caught a rock and ripped the raft wide open.
They're a lot of rapids, but I bet you are talking about the San Juan rapids. It's only a couple of miles from my house and funny you should mention them because I was actually thinking about walking the lab there after work to check them out again. The American is up really high now. Incidentally, my buddy almost drown there when we were in high school. Man that would be a good story to share some time.
| 832 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:57:21am |
re: #826 lawhawk
Come to think of it, you know who might benefit quite a bit from the cash for clunkers program? Car rental companies - selling off their oldest inventory and worst performing cars by mpg, and updating to newer models.
My company is looking at taking advantage of that program, though now that looks like it might not happen. Too bad, we need a new truck.
| 833 |
Erik The Red Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:57:24am |
re: #829 Ford_Prefect
Sucks that you won't have so much time to yourself, doesn't it? ;)
Nah, I have enough already. 6 weeks is a long time. I will have to get used to the noise again tho. :)
| 834 |
calcajun Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:57:45am |
| 835 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:57:46am |
re: #810 avanti
We can't know that, we'll have to wait and see.
What are you talking about, wait and see? The program has already blown up, stopped, in trouble, how does that help?
| 836 |
freetoken Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:57:51am |
re: #798 Altermite
Only 42% of self-identified Repubs said yes?
Sheeshhh...
Don't know how the poll was conducted. Wish a more established outfit like Pew would attempt a poll like this.
| 837 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:57:52am |
re: #819 drcordell
OT: 28% of Republicans are self-admitted Nirthers. Another 30% say they are "undecided" as to whether Obama was born in the U.S. Can you say rump party?
Source
Well, I am from the Northeast and we seem to have the least amounts of Nirthers. This fits from from experience since I have yet to meet one.
| 838 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:58:00am |
| 839 |
lawhawk Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:58:13am |
re: #819 drcordell
Interesting, but this is Daily Kos that's running the poll. You don't think that there's an incentive to make the GOP look even worse, do you? How were the questions phrased? Moreover, it looks like there's a serious regional split - with the South finding less than 50% believe he's a citizen. Old time prejudices coming through perhaps.
| 841 |
freetoken Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:58:50am |
| 842 |
jcm Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:59:19am |
Top 1% Paid More in Federal Income Taxes Than Bottom 95% in ‘07
Indeed, the IRS data shows that in 2007—the most recent data available—the top 1 percent of taxpayers paid 40.4 percent of the total income taxes collected by the federal government. This is the highest percentage in modern history. By contrast, the top 1 percent paid 24.8 percent of the income tax burden in 1987, the year following the 1986 tax reform act.Remarkably, the share of the tax burden borne by the top 1 percent now exceeds the share paid by the bottom 95 percent of taxpayers combined. In 2007, the bottom 95 percent paid 39.4 percent of the income tax burden. This is down from the 58 percent of the total income tax burden they paid twenty years ago.
And this is before Hope-n-Change spreads the wealth around.
| 843 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 7:59:28am |
| 844 |
vxbush Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:00:07am |
re: #842 jcm
Top 1% Paid More in Federal Income Taxes Than Bottom 95% in ‘07
And this is before Hope-n-Change spreads the wealth around.
That is nucking futs.
| 845 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:00:11am |
KOS poll
[Link: politicalwire.com...]
| 846 |
Lincolntf Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:00:17am |
re: #827 vxbush
Your point is the one thing that gives me hope for the economy (and by extension, the Repubs). Once Obama's plans have been implemented (HC/ Cap-Trade/Expired tax-cuts, etc.), the immediate and obvious benefits of repealing his decisions will be obvious to every person in the business world. Hopefully, their instinct to self-preservation will trump their emotional attachment to Barry and they'll start using common sense again. We'll see.
| 848 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:01:16am |
re: #842 jcm
Top 1% Paid More in Federal Income Taxes Than Bottom 95% in ‘07
And this is before Hope-n-Change spreads the wealth around.
They still aren't paying enough. We have to keep rasing the taxes on the rich until they are not rich anymore.
//
| 849 |
vxbush Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:01:18am |
re: #846 Lincolntf
Your point is the one thing that gives me hope for the economy (and by extension, the Repubs). Once Obama's plans have been implemented (HC/ Cap-Trade/Expired tax-cuts, etc.), the immediate and obvious benefits of repealing his decisions will be obvious to every person in the business world. Hopefully, their instinct to self-preservation will trump their emotional attachment to Barry and they'll start using common sense again. We'll see.
We can hope.
| 850 |
calcajun Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:01:26am |
re: #840 vxbush
Yeah, but I don't know ASL. /
Preview is my friend
Preview is my friend
Preview is my friend///
| 851 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:01:34am |
| 853 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:01:47am |
re: #846 Lincolntf
Your point is the one thing that gives me hope for the economy (and by extension, the Repubs). Once Obama's plans have been implemented (HC/ Cap-Trade/Expired tax-cuts, etc.), the immediate and obvious benefits of repealing his decisions will be obvious to every person in the business world. Hopefully, their instinct to self-preservation will trump their emotional attachment to Barry and they'll start using common sense again. We'll see.
NOPE!...it's a religion, they will not walk away from...water it down maybe
| 854 |
MandyManners Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:02:00am |
re: #819 drcordell
Oh, goody! Another chance to ding your butt down.
| 855 |
vxbush Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:02:03am |
re: #850 calcajun
Preview is my friend
Preview is my friend
Preview is my friend///
Sorry, dude. Had to do that. You left an opening a mile wide. :D
| 856 |
Miss Trixie Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:02:29am |
♪ ♬ Good morning, {lizards!} ♬ ♪
I'm on vacation until the 10th and boy-howdy I surely need a break. Like Ford, I've so much more on my plate that demands my attention and it leaves no time to visit here and by the end of the week, I'm toasted mentally and physically.
So nice to relax and spend a little time here. :D
Is it too early for a cocktail?
| 857 |
wahabicorridor Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:03:19am |
I don't know whether to laugh or cry. And this is after Jacqui Smith, who was canned as Home Sec., admitted she'd been in over her head the entire time.
Under-fire Defence Secretary Bob Ainsworth today suggested that he was the victim of social prejudice because of his accent and moustache.Mr Ainsworth, a former factory worker from Coventry, admitted he was not an intellectual, but he insisted he was qualified to run the Ministry of Defence.
The Defence Secretary hit back following criticism over his handling over the Afghanistan conflict and compensation for wounded soldiers.
| 858 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:03:32am |
re: #818 MandyManners
The Terror Network by Claire Sterling.
re: #828 wahabicorridor
Yes.
Baader-Meinhof: The Inside Story of the R.A.F. (Hardcover)The author, Stefan Aust actually knew some of them personally. He actually helped kidnap Meinhof's kids. She threatened to kill him.
Thanks! I've added those to my Amazon wish list.
| 859 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:03:41am |
This is the forth video I've seen where a Democrat talks about the health care bill and gets laughed at.
Anthony Weiner Claims Healthcare Will Drive Taxes Down; Committee Room Erupts in Laughter
| 860 |
Creeping Eruption Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:03:44am |
re: #856 Miss Trixie
♪ ♬ Good morning, {lizards!} ♬ ♪
I'm on vacation until the 10th and boy-howdy I surely need a break. Like Ford, I've so much more on my plate that demands my attention and it leaves no time to visit here and by the end of the week, I'm toasted mentally and physically.
So nice to relax and spend a little time here. :D
Is it too early for a cocktail?
Have two. One for you and one for me. I have 3 weeks to go before any kind of break.
| 861 |
MandyManners Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:03:46am |
re: #848 Ford_Prefect
They still aren't paying enough. We have to keep rasing the taxes on the rich until they are not rich anymore.
//
Wasn't $70.000.00/yr. the final amount FCBBHO and Biden settled on as "rich" during the campaign?
| 862 |
wahabicorridor Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:04:41am |
| 863 |
avanti Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:05:06am |
re: #835 Walter L. Newton
What are you talking about, wait and see? The program has already blown up, stopped, in trouble, how does that help?
Walter, the program is good through the weekend, if it ran out of money, it's a success and they are trying to add more money today to keep it going. They are talking about reallocating 2 billion of the stimulus money directly to the CFC program.
| 864 |
Kronocide Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:05:35am |
re: #802 avanti
91,000 million to run the program, 200-250 thousand fuel efficient cars sold saving some oil, maybe kick starting car sales. The billion dollar direct rebate seems to work better then the bailouts or other programs. The GOP should use the success of the program to show how putting tax money directly in the public's hands is the best way to stimulate the economy.
Why is it that the left believes in Trickle Down Economics when the government gives out the $ but they don't believe in it if you tax less and let people keep money so they can spend it where they want?
The GOP does believe in putting more money in people's hands by not taking it away in the first place. It's called low taxation. That stimulates the economy as shown time and time again. That's why controlled economies don't fare as well as free market economies. Why is this so hard to comprehend?
This statement begs the question: why not just lower the tax burden on car dealerships and car makers so people can afford new cars?
| 865 |
vxbush Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:05:41am |
re: #863 avanti
Walter, the program is good through the weekend, if it ran out of money, it's a success and they are trying to add more money today to keep it going. They are talking about reallocating 2 billion of the stimulus money directly to the CFC program.
Isn't that stimulus money already allocated, though? How can they just come up with 2 billion more?
| 866 |
Lincolntf Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:05:52am |
re: #853 albusteve
Every trend seems inexorable and infinite when you're in the midst of it. But few of them ever are. In 2012, we'll only need a few percentage points worth of voters from "the middle" to reverse course and then Obama can go back to writing autobiographies.
| 867 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:06:07am |
re: #837 VioletTiger
Well, I am from the Northeast and we seem to have the least amounts of Nirthers. This fits from from experience since I have yet to meet one.
I've met one. There is no hope. He cannot be saved.
But Nirthers aren't passing trillion dollar porkulus bills and blowing my sons paycheck before he even starts working last time I checked.
They're whacked and crazy and I don't want anything to do with them, but they're about #12 on my priority list at this time.
| 868 |
jcm Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:06:30am |
re: #819 drcordell
OT: 28% of Republicans are self-admitted Nirthers. Another 30% say they are "undecided" as to whether Obama was born in the U.S. Can you say rump party?
Source
35% of democrats according to a Rasmussen poll of May 2007 believe that 9-11 was an inside job.
| 869 |
pingjockey Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:06:31am |
Good Friday Morning Lizards! Hope you all are as fine as the down on a frogs butt!
| 871 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:07:41am |
This was from about a week ago, but I haven't been around so I thought I would share it. Pratt & Whitney recently announced that they are considering closing or reducing a couple of plants here in CT. The unions, of course, are going to fight it. I found this quote very revealing:
"The bottom line at the end of the day and the end of the meeting, if you're looked at their charts, it was all about making a bigger profit," said union member James Parent. "It was all about corporate greed and that's what's got to end in this country."
So profit = greed. And that has "to end in this country." So who, exactly, does he think is going to hire his union members when all of those greedy, fro profit companies close their doors?
| 872 |
Lincolntf Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:07:44am |
re: #864 BigPapa
Because the only entity that should be allowed to make financial decisions is the Government. Every transaction that doesn't intimately involve the Government is automatically suspect.
| 873 |
MandyManners Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:07:47am |
re: #858 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
Thanks! I've added those to my Amazon wish list.
Sterling's book is one of the things that helped me get out of the CPUSA.
| 874 |
jcm Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:07:53am |
re: #869 pingjockey
Good Friday Morning Lizards! Hope you all are as fine as the down on a frogs butt!
PING!
Cooling off on the wet side, how 'bout you drysiders?
| 875 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:07:56am |
re: #863 avanti
Walter, the program is good through the weekend, if it ran out of money, it's a success and they are trying to add more money today to keep it going. They are talking about reallocating 2 billion of the stimulus money directly to the CFC program.
where does the 2b come from?...the feds are broke
| 876 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:08:03am |
re: #861 MandyManners
Wasn't $70.000.00/yr. the final amount FCBBHO and Biden settled on as "rich" during the campaign?
And falling, no doubt.
| 877 |
MandyManners Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:08:27am |
re: #856 Miss Trixie
♪ ♬ Good morning, {lizards!} ♬ ♪
I'm on vacation until the 10th and boy-howdy I surely need a break. Like Ford, I've so much more on my plate that demands my attention and it leaves no time to visit here and by the end of the week, I'm toasted mentally and physically.
So nice to relax and spend a little time here. :D
Is it too early for a cocktail?
It's 5:00 p.m. somewhere.
| 879 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:09:42am |
re: #864 BigPapa
Why is it that the left believes in Trickle Down Economics when the government gives out the $ but they don't believe in it if you tax less and let people keep money so they can spend it where they want?
The GOP does believe in putting more money in people's hands by not taking it away in the first place. It's called low taxation. That stimulates the economy as shown time and time again. That's why controlled economies don't fare as well as free market economies. Why is this so hard to comprehend?
This statement begs the question: why not just lower the tax burden on car dealerships and car makers so people can afford new cars?
Good point. Leaving the money in taxpayer hands means it does not get spent in hand-outs to their dependent base. How can they redistribute wealth if they let us keep it?
| 880 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:09:45am |
re: #868 jcm
35% of democrats according to a Rasmussen poll of May 2007 believe that 9-11 was an inside job.
Seems kinda low.
//
| 881 |
Creeping Eruption Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:09:46am |
re: #869 pingjockey
Good Friday Morning Lizards! Hope you all are as fine as the down on a frogs butt!
Morning as well. Love those Pith-y frog comments.
| 882 |
avanti Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:09:51am |
re: #865 vxbush
Isn't that stimulus money already allocated, though? How can they just come up with 2 billion more?
A lot of money has not been allocated or can be shifted around. I don't think they have time to vote spend yet more, even if they wanted to.
| 883 |
Lincolntf Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:09:54am |
re: #875 albusteve
It's borrowed. While Avanti is thanking Obama for his clunker deal, the kids playing in the front yard just had a nice fat bill attached to their futures. Thank them.
| 884 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:09:59am |
re: #873 MandyManners
Sterling's book is one of the things that helped me get out of the CPUSA.
Wow - I never knew you were ever in the CPUSA. I bet there are a lot of interesting "coversion" stories amongst the lizards here.
| 885 |
Honorary Yooper Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:10:22am |
re: #819 drcordell
OT: 28% of Republicans are self-admitted Nirthers. Another 30% say they are "undecided" as to whether Obama was born in the U.S. Can you say rump party?
Source
Dinged down because the source is a Daily Kos poll. They're not known for puting Republicans or conservatives in a good light. In fact, Kos is well known for demonizing his opposition whenever possible.
Citing Kos as a source on how Republicans think is like citing the DI on evolution.
| 886 |
Digital Display Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:10:32am |
re: #824 KenJen
Fun. I used to go up to my Grandmother's fishing cabin in Rhinelander, WI every summer. Used to fish for bluegills with a cane pole. It sits on Coon Lake. Beautiful up there. Have fun. I'm jealous.
That is so cool.. We fly into Rhinelander on Midwest Connect, rent a car and drive up to Lake Tomahawk.. The Cabin is on the lake...
It's a great way to recharge the batteries..
| 887 |
avanti Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:10:36am |
re: #875 albusteve
where does the 2b come from?...the feds are broke
Money already allocated in the stimulus funding.
| 888 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:10:54am |
| 889 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:11:15am |
re: #875 albusteve
where does the 2b come from?...the feds are broke
I know - print more money! It worked for Zimbabwe & Weimar Germany, right?
/
| 890 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:11:17am |
re: #883 Lincolntf
It's borrowed. While Avanti is thanking Obama for his clunker deal, the kids playing in the front yard just had a nice fat bill attached to their futures. Thank them.
it's stolen, not barrowed
| 891 |
vxbush Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:11:35am |
re: #882 avanti
A lot of money has not been allocated or can be shifted around. I don't think they have time to vote spend yet more, even if they wanted to.
So they set aside a stimulus program for XX amount of billion of dollars, and they have 2 billion sitting there not being assigned to anything? That means they created a bill to set aside money to do whatever they want with no mandate at all. That's crazy.
| 892 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:11:37am |
re: #867 SasquatchOnSteroids
I've met one. There is no hope. He cannot be saved.
But Nirthers aren't passing trillion dollar porkulus bills and blowing my sons paycheck before he even starts working last time I checked.
They're whacked and crazy and I don't want anything to do with them, but they're about #12 on my priority list at this time.
I do think that the left is trying to take advantage of this issue, which should have died in early November. They ignored it then, but now they seem to fan the flames of the crazy.
| 893 |
turn Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:11:56am |
re: #884 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
Wow - I never knew you were ever in the CPUSA. I bet there are a lot of interesting "coversion" stories amongst the lizards here.
CPUSA?
| 894 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:12:07am |
re: #887 avanti
Money already allocated in the stimulus funding.
what?..are you stupid?...where did the stimulus money come from?
| 895 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:12:20am |
re: #890 albusteve
it's stolen, not barrowed
Freudian slip? Inflation was so bad in Weimar Germany, that people were carrying their cash around in wheelbarrows.
| 896 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:12:32am |
Funny cartoon at IBD about the cars for clunkers thing, with a shot at health care as well.
| 897 |
avanti Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:12:36am |
re: #885 Honorary Yooper
Dinged down because the source is a Daily Kos poll. They're not known for puting Republicans or conservatives in a good light. In fact, Kos is well known for demonizing his opposition whenever possible.
Citing Kos as a source on how Republicans think is like citing the DI on evolution.
In fairness, KOS just commissioned the poll, Research 2000 actually did it. Maybe we'll get a more independent poll shortly.
| 898 |
Kronocide Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:12:55am |
re: #842 jcm
That doesn't sound Fair enough!
I have yet to have somebody explain to me how progressive taxation is fair without saying 'they can afford it' or some other detached fallacy. The offer still stands: expensive dinner or bottle of wine.
I don't even have to agree, just give me the logical argument and make it coherent and sound.
| 899 |
pingjockey Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:13:08am |
Miss Trixie...you are on vacation and as a noncertified mixologist, if you want a cocktail, it doesn't matter what time it is!
| 900 |
Creeping Eruption Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:13:21am |
Has anyone read The Shadow Factory: The NSA from 9/11 to the Eavesdropping on America by James Bamford?
| 901 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:13:21am |
re: #892 VioletTiger
I do think that the left is trying to take advantage of this issue, which should have died in early November. They ignored it then, but now they seem to fan the flames of the crazy.
Well, If I was a Dem, it would be the thing to do. They're nucking futs.
And they're shiny.
| 902 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:13:42am |
re: #895 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
Freudian slip? Inflation was so bad in Weimar Germany, that people were carrying their cash around in wheelbarrows.
ha!...good snag
you wanna make money?
torches
pitchforks
wheelbarrows
| 903 |
jcm Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:13:43am |
re: #887 avanti
Money already allocated in the stimulus funding.
Proven stimulus, it's worked every time it's been tried.
Tax cuts.
Last time the massive government spending was used, it lengthened the Depression by 7 years.
| 904 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:13:54am |
re: #863 avanti
Walter, the program is good through the weekend, if it ran out of money, it's a success and they are trying to add more money today to keep it going. They are talking about reallocating 2 billion of the stimulus money directly to the CFC program.
How many times do I have to say it, the president of the COLORADO CAR DEALERS ASSOCIATION say the is many more problems other than some supply and the funding.
There is a massive blunder with tons of paperwork, confusing rules and procedure's and red tape. That's what is really behind the problems. Now, do you understand that?
| 905 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:14:20am |
| 906 |
ArchangelMichael Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:14:30am |
re: #861 MandyManners
Wasn't $70.000.00/yr. the final amount FCBBHO and Biden settled on as "rich" during the campaign?
The state of California apparently thinks you are "rich" if you make more than $45,000/year (which is barely enough to rent a place here, no less own a home). If FCBHO and Biden keep lowering their definition like that I'm going to get a double BOHICA at tax time. A single reaming is one reaming too many.
| 907 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:15:03am |
re: #895 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
Freudian slip? Inflation was so bad in Weimar Germany, that people were carrying their cash around in wheelbarrows.
And the wheelbarrows were being stolen. Cash left right on the street.
Heh.
| 908 |
Kronocide Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:15:15am |
re: #868 jcm
35% of democrats according to a Rasmussen poll of May 2007 believe that 9-11 was an inside job.
Nice Poll Sliming retort!
I don't think the KosKids should play the PollSliming game, it's a pot/kettle conundrum.
| 909 |
Honorary Yooper Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:15:32am |
re: #841 freetoken
Commissioned poll.
Commissioned by the Daily Kos. Which means they're the ones who dictate how the questions are asked, and which questions are asked. Polls can be made to show just about anything depending on how you ask questions, and which questions you ask.
I wonder what a Zogby, Gallup, or another poll would show if commissioned by a conservative group, just as a comparison.
| 910 |
MrSilverDragon Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:15:50am |
| 911 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:16:07am |
BBIAB - got to go bleach my brain - it's like talking to a Trappist monk.
| 912 |
turn Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:16:12am |
| 913 |
doppelganglander Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:16:12am |
re: #902 albusteve
ha!...good snag
you wanna make money?
torches
pitchforks
wheelbarrows
I was just reading about those rowdy town hall meetings that Democrats are so terrified of. Wouldn't it be funny to bring toy torches and pitchforks (plastic, of course) just to make a point?
| 914 |
Miss Trixie Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:16:19am |
re: #860 Creeping Eruption
Have two. One for you and one for me. I have 3 weeks to go before any kind of break.
Drat. Three weeks can be such a long time but it'll be here afore you know it.
{wahabbi} Morning toots! *mwah* :D
hey, it's 5 pm somewhere
LOL! I think I'll wait a bit. I'm still in me jammies and have just had a luscious pancake and bacon brekkie. I'm still brain-dead from such a crazy week and I think I'll relax all day and re-charge my batteries.
How's the Fat Beagle these days - feeling better?
| 916 |
turn Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:17:15am |
| 918 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:17:48am |
we have people thinking wealth is created with pen strokes...and citing DKos poles as to what republicans are thinking...what a crazy world these people live in
| 919 |
avanti Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:17:53am |
re: #898 BigPapa
That doesn't sound Fair enough!
I have yet to have somebody explain to me how progressive taxation is fair without saying 'they can afford it' or some other detached fallacy. The offer still stands: expensive dinner or bottle of wine.
I don't even have to agree, just give me the logical argument and make it coherent and sound.
I'd love to see any party run on a platform of getting rid of the progressive tax. Not many middle income voters will support their taxes doubling or tripling in fairness to the wealthy. The rich do spread the wealth around, and have for decades, like it or not.
| 920 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:18:02am |
re: #901 SasquatchOnSteroids
Well, If I was a Dem, it would be the thing to do. They're nucking futs.
And they'reshiny.dim
.
(sorry, could not resist that one).
| 921 |
Kronocide Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:18:06am |
re: #904 Walter L. Newton
There is a massive blunder with tons of paperwork, confusing rules and procedure's and red tape. That's what is really behind the problems.
The program was successful because it ran out of money! By that measure, bankruptcy is what all businesses should strive for.
| 923 |
Charpete67 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:18:46am |
re: #909 Honorary Yooper
Commissioned by the Daily Kos. Which means they're the ones who dictate how the questions are asked, and which questions are asked. Polls can be made to show just about anything depending on how you ask questions, and which questions you ask.
I wonder what a Zogby, Gallup, or another poll would show if commissioned by a conservative group, just as a comparison.
...this just in...97% of all DailyKOS posters believe that 99% of all conservatives are nirthers...
| 924 |
avanti Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:18:56am |
re: #904 Walter L. Newton
How many times do I have to say it, the president of the COLORADO CAR DEALERS ASSOCIATION say the is many more problems other than some supply and the funding.
There is a massive blunder with tons of paperwork, confusing rules and procedure's and red tape. That's what is really behind the problems. Now, do you understand that?
I get that you think it's a massive blunder.
| 925 |
Creeping Eruption Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:19:05am |
re: #918 albusteve
we have people thinking wealth is created with pen strokes...and citing DKos poles as to what republicans are thinking...what a crazy world these people live in
Wealth may only be created with hard work, but it sure seems to disappear with a pen-stroke.
| 926 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:19:27am |
re: #921 BigPapa
The program was successful because it ran out of money! By that measure, bankruptcy is what all businesses should strive for.
By that measure every program the government has ever instituted has been a huge success.
| 927 |
MandyManners Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:19:47am |
re: #884 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
Wow - I never knew you were ever in the CPUSA. I bet there are a lot of interesting "coversion" stories amongst the lizards here.
Why do you think I hate Communism so much? Why do you think FCBBHO makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up straight?
| 928 |
Creeping Eruption Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:19:57am |
re: #913 doppelganglander
I was just reading about those rowdy town hall meetings that Democrats are so terrified of. Wouldn't it be funny to bring toy torches and pitchforks (plastic, of course) just to make a point?
. . .or three.
| 929 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:20:12am |
re: #926 Ford_Prefect
By that measure every program the government has ever instituted has been a huge success.
We Never Fail.
| 930 |
Charpete67 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:20:13am |
re: #925 Creeping Eruption
Wealth may only be created with hard work, but it sure seems to disappear with a pen-stroke.
not if you believe in BHO's magic pen...
| 931 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:20:29am |
| 932 |
Lincolntf Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:20:39am |
re: #926 Ford_Prefect
So I guess now Obama wants us to hope that all his programs "Fail"?
These libs sure are confusing.
| 933 |
pingjockey Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:20:43am |
Look, the gov't couldn't run a whore house and not go bankrupt. See the Mustang Ranch for example. The feds had an actual legal Nevada whorehouse and it went broke!
Yep, that's the business skill I want running my health care all right.
| 934 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:20:51am |
re: #929 SasquatchOnSteroids
We Never Fail.
Just keep spending until we succeed. And if that doesn't work... then spend some more!
| 935 |
JohnnyReb Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:21:05am |
re: #891 vxbush
So they set aside a stimulus program for XX amount of billion of dollars, and they have 2 billion sitting there not being assigned to anything? That means they created a bill to set aside money to do whatever they want with no mandate at all. That's crazy.
Nope that is unconstitutional. The whole porkulus bill by definition is unconstitutional.
| 936 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:21:19am |
re: #865 vxbush
Isn't that stimulus money already allocated, though? How can they just come up with 2 billion more?
Print it.
| 937 |
The Left Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:21:19am |
re: #885 Honorary Yooper
Dinged down because the source is a Daily Kos poll. They're not known for puting Republicans or conservatives in a good light. In fact, Kos is well known for demonizing his opposition whenever possible.
Citing Kos as a source on how Republicans think is like citing the DI on evolution.
I'll second what Avanti said about; Kos commissioned Research 2000. Kos polls aren't always automatically bad; it also matters whether it's a poll of the Kos community or not.
That being said, the percentage reported of Republicans that are also nirthers seems really high to me--too high.
| 938 |
Creeping Eruption Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:21:23am |
| 939 |
Throbert McGee Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:21:45am |
re: #604 SixDegrees
The only noteworthy difference is the sudden interest of the media in such behavior, when it went without comment for years when perpetrated by Leftist thugs instead of the the thugs on the Right.
I certainly don't agree that leftists attacks against Bush and others "went without comment" -- only that they went without comment by the left-leaning entities of the mainstream media, because it wasn't their ox being gored. And the best response to this by folks on the right is to take the high road, always, and not fall into a "my turn to be an asshole!" way of thinking.
Mind you, "taking the high road" doesn't mean never pointing out left-wing bullshit; it does mean having some sense of perspective and never ever imitating the heroic-martyr posturing of a pampered diva like Henry Gates. (Or pretty much the entire theatrical "Say no to Prop H8!" movement as organized by the GBLTQetc. "leaders" in California, whose outraged to-the-barricades rhetoric was so comically out of proportion to the smallish nature of the grievance.)
| 940 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:21:51am |
re: #933 pingjockey
Look, the gov't couldn't run a whore house and not go bankrupt. See the Mustang Ranch for example. The feds had an actual legal Nevada whorehouse and it went broke!
Yep, that's the business skill I want running my health care all right.
Congress didn't like the competition.
| 941 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:21:56am |
re: #924 avanti
I get that you think it's a massive blunder.
you're sharp this morning...you should run for office
| 942 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:22:14am |
re: #923 Charpete67
...this just in...97% of all DailyKOS posters believe that 99% of all conservatives are nirthers...
The huge irony for me is that their own party started this nonsense. It was the PUMAS upset with Hillary's defeat.
| 943 |
MandyManners Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:22:27am |
re: #906 ArchangelMichael
The state of California apparently thinks you are "rich" if you make more than $45,000/year (which is barely enough to rent a place here, no less own a home). If FCBHO and Biden keep lowering their definition like that I'm going to get a double BOHICA at tax time. A single reaming is one reaming too many.
Maybe that would be enough to own a trailer in Death Valley.
| 945 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:23:47am |
re: #934 Ford_Prefect
Just keep spending until we succeed. And if that doesn't work... then spend some more!
I recently saw a satirical comic strip in which a super-powered Obama fights his enemies by literally throwing money at them - big wads of cash can really sting!
| 946 |
avanti Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:23:50am |
re: #861 MandyManners
Wasn't $70.000.00/yr. the final amount FCBBHO and Biden settled on as "rich" during the campaign?
Not really. The 70K quote was from Obama a few years back about folks doing well, and he said back then that 70K a year was doing well. The cut off for the Federal tax cut was, and is 250K. ( A big 13-15 dollars a week for most)
| 947 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:23:54am |
re: #943 MandyManners
Maybe that would be enough to own a trailer in Death Valley.
Do people that live in Death Valley have to pay death taxes every year?
/
| 948 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:23:55am |
re: #937 iceweasel
Hey IW. One of those Ecigs were in the classified ads in todays local paper. Not sure why, but they are in FLA. Oh yea, morning.
| 949 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:24:22am |
re: #921 BigPapa
The program was successful because it ran out of money! By that measure, bankruptcy is what all businesses should strive for.
I keep trying t0 convince Mr Tiger that I can spend our way to prosperity, but he never buys it.
;)
| 950 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:24:30am |
re: #945 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
I recently saw a satirical comic strip in which a super-powered Obama fights his enemies by literally throwing money at them - big wads of cash can really sting!
How do I get me some of that hurt?
| 951 |
vxbush Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:24:30am |
re: #943 MandyManners
Maybe that would be enough to own a trailer in Death Valley.
Not with air conditioning costs. Oh, wait, you mean one with no air conditioner, right?
| 953 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:25:11am |
Just got back from an appointment with a "Ford Fairlaine" owner. Wife was insulted.
They told me of five companies that they have had come to their house to quote different projects, all of which they went ahead and did themselves to save money.
I asked her, "Why do you keep wasting people's time then? You know you're just going to do this yourself. Seriously, Ma'am. I'm curious."
I think I may have hurt her feelings.
Did not compliment her on her lovely housecoat (read... muumuu) either.
| 954 |
The Left Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:25:38am |
re: #909 Honorary Yooper
Commissioned by the Daily Kos. Which means they're the ones who dictate how the questions are asked, and which questions are asked.
Not so. If you hire a pollster you're hiring them in part for their expertise in knowing how to frame questions so as to get an accurate result.
On the other hand, people are often inclined to hire a particular pollster for their expertise in getting a skewed result.
Kos wouldn't be dictating what questions get asked; Research 2000 would.
Polls can be made to show just about anything depending on how you ask questions, and which questions you ask.
That's exactly right.
| 956 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:26:05am |
re: #953 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Just got back from an appointment with a "Ford Fairlaine" owner. Wife was insulted.
I always thought it was an underrated movie myself.
/
| 957 |
Creeping Eruption Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:27:23am |
re: #953 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Just got back from an appointment with a "Ford Fairlaine" owner. Wife was insulted.
They told me of five companies that they have had come to their house to quote different projects, all of which they went ahead and did themselves to save money.
I asked her, "Why do you keep wasting people's time then? You know you're just going to do this yourself. Seriously, Ma'am. I'm curious."
I think I may have hurt her feelings.
Did not compliment her on her lovely housecoat (read... muumuu) either.
Maybe she is lonely. Now she is going to have to wait for the UPS guy. Real nice of you./
| 958 |
jcm Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:27:32am |
re: #906 ArchangelMichael
The state of California apparently thinks you are "rich" if you make more than $45,000/year (which is barely enough to rent a place here, no less own a home). If FCBHO and Biden keep lowering their definition like that I'm going to get a double BOHICA at tax time. A single reaming is one reaming too many.
Obama's number 2 at HUD, Ron Sims, added $200,000 to the cost of a home in King Co. WA with all the regulations as county exec. Median price is around $400,000. 50% of the cost of home is due regulation. Then they wonder were the affordable housing has gone to, and consider more taxes to subsidize housing to make it more affordable.
Pure, frikkin' genius.
| 959 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:27:42am |
re: #955 buzzsawmonkey
She was wearing a moo-moo? Are you calling her a cow?
Maybe he didn't milk her enough.
| 960 |
The Left Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:27:54am |
re: #948 Cannadian Club Akbar
Hey IW. One of those Ecigs were in the classified ads in todays local paper. Not sure why, but they are in FLA. Oh yea, morning.
Hey CCA! Hmm, that's good to hear. I know a couple of people in the UK using them to quit and they say they work really well.
How are you today?
| 961 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:27:58am |
re: #931 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
It's about tine!
No one else wants to keep this pun thread alive? Guess I should stick a fork in it, then.
| 962 |
gregb Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:28:06am |
Wow, on a completely different subject. That Crowley guy is better at media management, answering questions in a quick and decisive manner, and press sessions than Gibbs. Obama should hire him as an immediate replacement.
[Link: www.breitbart.tv...]
| 963 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:28:25am |
| 964 |
Kronocide Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:28:28am |
re: #919 avanti
I'd love to see any party run on a platform of getting rid of the progressive tax. Not many middle income voters will support their taxes doubling or tripling in fairness to the wealthy. The rich do spread the wealth around, and have for decades, like it or not.
So would I but for different reasons. But if you tell them their taxes will 'double or triple to pay for the rich's tax cuts' nobody will go for it. That's simplistic hyperbole being presented as rational logic, which is typical when politicians and leftists talk about taxation.
It sounds like a tax reduction 'has to be paid for:' recent rhetoric by politicians to blunt calls for lower taxation. It's a convenient fall back to limit criticism or further discussion. What's lost is the impacts beyond the red/black numbers in the columns: changes in spending behavior by the populace due to the tax cuts.
What's also lost is the questioning of your premise: that if you reduce taxes on the wealthy, the rest of our taxes will double or triple. Do you believe what you actually just said or are you just trying out some clever rhetoric? I could use the same logic and say that your statement just admitted that currently taxation is not fair to the wealthy. It's true anyway but I'm glad you admitted it.
| 965 |
SFGoth Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:28:30am |
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]
Deliberations to Begin in Wisconsin Dad's Faith-Healing Death Trial
I should not have read this article now I am so riled up. Fuck this guy.
"He told jurors he couldn't seek medical treatment for his 11-year-old daughter Madeline — who suffered from undiagnosed diabetes — without disobeying God. 'I can't do that because Biblically, I cannot find that is the way people are healed,' Neumann said." Fuck you, asshole. Biblically, people don't have electricity, gasoline, and all the other modern conveniences of life you won't spurn, except medicine, because there's something fucking wrong with you. You'll be the first bastard to the ER when it's your turn. He should be forced to live by his own creed - cast out into the wilderness with nothing but whatever Biblical man had. Or conviction for voluntary manslaughter.
| 966 |
ArchangelMichael Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:28:37am |
re: #943 MandyManners
Maybe that would be enough to own a trailer in Death Valley.
I see they raised it up to 47k for 2009...
Might be able to own a double-wide in Blythe or Needles.
| 967 |
MrSilverDragon Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:28:50am |
re: #952 buzzsawmonkey
This administration exhibits townhall vision.
With a large helping of myopia, no less.
| 968 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:28:56am |
re: #956 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
Wasn't it the "Brain Smasher"?
| 969 |
drcordell Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:29:00am |
re: #885 Honorary Yooper
Dinged down because the source is a Daily Kos poll. They're not known for puting Republicans or conservatives in a good light. In fact, Kos is well known for demonizing his opposition whenever possible.
Citing Kos as a source on how Republicans think is like citing the DI on evolution.
Kos didn't conduct the poll, Research 2000 did. I don't see anyone here down-dinging Rasmussen polls because they are basically paid operatives of the GOP. Research 2000 has proven themselves to be an accurate pollster in both the 2000 and 2008 elections. You can shoot the messenger all you want, but that doesn't change the facts.
| 970 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:29:50am |
re: #963 Ford_Prefect
That's udderly ridiculous.
If he looked like Hugh Heifer, he might've gotten that job.
| 971 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:30:06am |
re: #959 SasquatchOnSteroids
Maybe he didn't milk her enough.
Why do you think I spelled it Muu Muu?
Coises! Foiled again!
| 972 |
SFGoth Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:30:11am |
re: #958 jcm
Obama's number 2 at HUD, Ron Sims, added $200,000 to the cost of a home in King Co. WA with all the regulations as county exec. Median price is around $400,000. 50% of the cost of home is due regulation. Then they wonder were the affordable housing has gone to, and consider more taxes to subsidize housing to make it more affordable.
Pure, frikkin' genius.
That's exactly the problem with liberals. They can't see two fucking steps down the road. They can't fathom the law of unintended consequences. I am so glad I escaped the brainwashing.
| 973 |
pingjockey Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:30:17am |
re: #958 jcm
FCCBHO put RON FUCKING SIMS at HUD? Know I know the man is not only clueless but actually dangerous to the country as well. Ron Sims should be put into a leaky canoe filed with weasels and set adrift in the Bering Sea.
| 974 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:30:36am |
Failure! Quagmire! Unwinnable war!
Cash-for-clunkers still operational: White House
| 975 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:30:42am |
re: #970 SasquatchOnSteroids
If he looked like Hugh Heifer, he might've gotten that job.
Oh sure, ignore my attempt at a utensil-pun thread, but milk this one for all its worth!
| 976 |
wahabicorridor Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:30:54am |
re: #914 Miss Trixie
She's EXCELLENT We are so pleased...
| 977 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:31:26am |
re: #960 iceweasel
Hey CCA! Hmm, that's good to hear. I know a couple of people in the UK using them to quit and they say they work really well.
How are you today?
Good. I am gonna call later to find out if the person quit or if it didn't work. Just dumb luck it was in there considering yesterdays conversation. The person is asking $150. Called " White Clouds."
| 978 |
ArchangelMichael Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:31:27am |
re: #958 jcm
The only "good" thing about being able to afford a home in areas like that and CA is if you can do it, and can hold it for awhile to get some equity or pay it off, you should be able to afford a mansion or multi-acre ranch just about anywhere else in the country.
| 979 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:31:28am |
re: #975 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
Oh sure, ignore my attempt at a utensil-pun thread, but milk this one for all its worth!
What the fork! I missed that one.
| 980 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:31:37am |
Gonna change my nic to "Salesman'screed".
Really, these people piss me off.
| 981 |
jcm Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:31:53am |
re: #973 pingjockey
FCCBHO put RON FUCKING SIMS at HUD? Know I know the man is not only clueless but actually dangerous to the country as well. Ron Sims should be put into a leaky canoe filed with weasels and set adrift in the Bering Sea.
ROFLMAO!
You must hate weasels!
| 982 |
MrSilverDragon Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:31:59am |
re: #975 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
Oh sure, ignore my attempt at a utensil-pun thread, but milk this one for all its worth!
Is he going to get creamed for that?
| 983 |
LGoPs Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:31:59am |
| 984 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:32:25am |
re: #969 drcordell
Kos didn't conduct the poll, Research 2000 did. I don't see anyone here down-dinging Rasmussen polls because they are basically paid operatives of the GOP. Research 2000 has proven themselves to be an accurate pollster in both the 2000 and 2008 elections. You can shoot the messenger all you want, but that doesn't change the facts.
nirthers...oh my!
consider 98% of registered Democrats are drooling Obots...
do you think that will hurt them in 2012?
| 985 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:32:48am |
re: #975 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
Oh sure, ignore my attempt at a utensil-pun thread, but milk this one for all its worth!
Thought it was too spoon for a utensil pun thread, but of cows, my timing is always lousy.
| 986 |
Creeping Eruption Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:32:55am |
re: #965 SFGoth
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]
Deliberations to Begin in Wisconsin Dad's Faith-Healing Death TrialI should not have read this article now I am so riled up. Fuck this guy.
"He told jurors he couldn't seek medical treatment for his 11-year-old daughter Madeline — who suffered from undiagnosed diabetes — without disobeying God. 'I can't do that because Biblically, I cannot find that is the way people are healed,' Neumann said." Fuck you, asshole. Biblically, people don't have electricity, gasoline, and all the other modern conveniences of life you won't spurn, except medicine, because there's something fucking wrong with you. You'll be the first bastard to the ER when it's your turn. He should be forced to live by his own creed - cast out into the wilderness with nothing but whatever Biblical man had. Or conviction for voluntary manslaughter.
I am from WI and cannot tell you how sick this makes me - on so many levels. Today is one of my kids birthdays. I had him in my lap this morning while the news was covering the story and could not comprehend how someone could let their own child die. It simply does not compute. I also have an orthodox Jewish background, so understand something about religious fervor, but also cannot connect that with letting someone die. Is is horrifying on so many levels.
| 988 |
SFGoth Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:33:21am |
When libs lecture me about economics and tax fairness (this all goes towards wealth hoarding), I tell them simply, wealth is like a shark, if it stops moving, it dies. What do wealthy people do with their money, turn into cash and bury it in the backyard? No, they spend it or invest it. Duh.
| 989 |
turn Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:33:24am |
| 990 |
LGoPs Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:33:25am |
re: #975 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
Oh sure, ignore my attempt at a utensil-pun thread, but milk this one for all its worth!
Damn. I love utensil pun threads. Damn.
/
| 991 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:33:30am |
re: #974 Killgore Trout
Failure! Quagmire! Unwinnable war!
Cash-for-clunkers still operational: White House
of course...just speed up the printing presses
| 992 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:33:30am |
| 993 |
debutaunt Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:33:35am |
re: #863 avanti
Walter, the program is good through the weekend, if it ran out of money, it's a success and they are trying to add more money today to keep it going. They are talking about reallocating 2 billion of the stimulus money directly to the CFC program.
Oh boy, we have a preview of the way the healthcare program will 'work' for us.
| 994 |
The Left Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:33:47am |
re: #969 drcordell
Kos didn't conduct the poll, Research 2000 did. I don't see anyone here down-dinging Rasmussen polls because they are basically paid operatives of the GOP. Research 2000 has proven themselves to be an accurate pollster in both the 2000 and 2008 elections. You can shoot the messenger all you want, but that doesn't change the facts.
Well, people like the Rasmussen polls because they like the results, and probably aren't aware of how inaccurate and slanted most Rasmussen polls are.
Research 2000 is better than Rasmussen overall, but this particular poll result strikes me as flawed in the sample selection-- the result seems much higher than I would have expected.
| 995 |
Lincolntf Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:33:48am |
re: #958 jcm
Ugh. Don't get me started.
We bought our house in NC two years ago. Depending on which bill passes through our Legislature (they've been squabbling forever while waiting to see if the similar Fed garbage will supercede the State) next session we may have to "greenify" our house before we sell it. That means all new windows, etc. Tens of thousands of dollars worth of work, no matter what.
Essentially, my re-sale value will have instantly dropped by the sum total of the bills for "eco-improvements" required by the State. Not my property value as figured for taxes, mind you, they'll still get their money every year. Talk about a screw job.
| 997 |
ArchangelMichael Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:34:03am |
re: #937 iceweasel
I'll second what Avanti said about; Kos commissioned Research 2000. Kos polls aren't always automatically bad; it also matters whether it's a poll of the Kos community or not.
That being said, the percentage reported of Republicans that are also nirthers seems really high to me--too high.
If there was only one nirther republican, that would be one too many. Any percentage is too high when you are talking about insanity.
| 998 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:34:19am |
re: #953 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Just got back from an appointment with a "Ford Fairlaine" owner. Wife was insulted.
They told me of five companies that they have had come to their house to quote different projects, all of which they went ahead and did themselves to save money.
I asked her, "Why do you keep wasting people's time then? You know you're just going to do this yourself. Seriously, Ma'am. I'm curious."
I think I may have hurt her feelings.
Did not compliment her on her lovely housecoat (read... muumuu) either.
She didn't have any answer?
I don't understand, other than sometime people get quotes and are surprised at the cost. It is a waste of their time too.
The only guy we didn't do business with is the sunroom guy. The price was twice what we expected. But we told him right away we could not afford to spend 60K for a sunroom--ouch!
| 999 |
LGoPs Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:35:09am |
re: #992 Ford_Prefect
I lactose abilities.
You lack toes? I am personally intolerant of those who lack toes.
| 1000 |
SFGoth Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:35:31am |
re: #978 ArchangelMichael
The only "good" thing about being able to afford a home in areas like that and CA is if you can do it, and can hold it for awhile to get some equity or pay it off, you should be able to afford a mansion or multi-acre ranch just about anywhere else in the country.
Yeah, the $200,000 condo I bought in San Fran in 1997 recently was appraised for a refi at $635,000 -- and you *know* that's conservative these days. Problem is, where'm I going to go where the weather's cool and foggy during summer? Thanks to Prop. 13 (big thumbs up), my property taxes are pretty damn low and my mortgage is less than the rental value of my place, so I'm content. I do wish I had a garage, but it's not that bad.
| 1001 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:35:34am |
re: #939 Throbert McGee
I certainly don't agree that leftists attacks against Bush and others "went without comment" -- only that they went without comment by the left-leaning entities of the mainstream media, because it wasn't their ox being gored.
I was referring specifically to the media reaction to such actions. Maybe I didn't make that clear.
| 1002 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:35:43am |
| 1003 |
lawhawk Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:35:55am |
re: #974 Killgore Trout
According to all the reports I've seen on cash for clunkers, no one knows how much money is left in the program. Reports range from it being completely gone (which would end the program as per its statutory enactment) to having 90% of the money still available.
The government screwed up on the accounting for the program. No way to avoid that singular fact.
As to whether the program has done any good, that remains to be seen - I personally don't think it has necessarily increased sales, and if Obama is taking money from one part of the stimulus package to cover another part, what does it say about the money in the porkfest to begin with? Apparently even Obama has to realize that there was so much pork larded in there that no one will necessarily miss part to cover a program that *might* be working to give consumers a break (but which has proven to be nothing but a headache for the car dealers who are screwed if they issue rebates to customers and aren't reimbursed from the government b/c the money dried up).
| 1004 |
jcm Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:35:59am |
re: #978 ArchangelMichael
The only "good" thing about being able to afford a home in areas like that and CA is if you can do it, and can hold it for awhile to get some equity or pay it off, you should be able to afford a mansion or multi-acre ranch just about anywhere else in the country.
We bought about 13 years ago at the beginning of the boom. Even with the hit of the last couple years in good shape. Seattle's housing market has taken the smallest hit in the country because the supply is so restricted. Two homes in my neighborhood are on the market asking $450,000. This are standard middle of road 3-4 bedroom suburban type homes, nothing fancy.
| 1005 |
MandyManners Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:36:13am |
| 1006 |
Creeping Eruption Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:36:17am |
| 1008 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:36:58am |
re: #1006 Creeping Eruption
Are you trying to ham-string the dairy pun thread?
Just trying to keep a leg up.
| 1009 |
The Left Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:37:01am |
re: #997 ArchangelMichael
If there was only one nirther republican, that would be one too many. Any percentage is too high when you are talking about insanity.
Damn straight!
I just can't believe that it's that many people. God, I hope not. But with Lou Dobbs, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Michelle Bachmann, and others out there spreading this manure...maybe it's affecting more people than we think. I hope not.
| 1010 |
turn Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:37:18am |
| 1011 |
redstateredneck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:37:18am |
re: #1006 Creeping Eruption
Are you trying to ham-string the dairy pun thread?
Only an arch enemy would try to turn a dairy thread to a foot thread.
| 1012 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:37:23am |
re: #998 VioletTiger
She didn't have any answer?
I don't understand, other than sometime people get quotes and are surprised at the cost.
Nope. She didn't have an answer, but did want to argue about why companies want to charge so much.
Fuckstick.
(not you; her)
| 1013 |
MandyManners Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:37:29am |
re: #980 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Gonna change my nic to "Salesman'screed".
Really, these people piss me off.
Do they try to pick your brain for ideas?
| 1014 |
BlueCanuck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:37:43am |
re: #969 drcordell
Can't resist. Do you get pleasure dropping turds in punchbowls? Every time you pop up you pinch off another one.
| 1015 |
JohnnyReb Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:37:56am |
Oh just great. Reid is blaming the August recess deadline on the media. They are starting to panic:
[Link: thehill.com...]
"The only problem with getting a bipartisan bill is the Republican leadership in the Senate,” Reid said."
Uh hey there Senator, your friggin party controls both the House and the Senate. You don't need one single republican vote, not one, to pass anything you want to. I suggest you drop the excuses and pass your bill and see what happens.
| 1016 |
Creeping Eruption Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:37:57am |
re: #1011 redstateredneck
Only an arch enemy would try to turn a dairy thread to a foot thread.
I think your pun fell flat
| 1017 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:38:05am |
| 1018 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:38:12am |
| 1019 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:38:17am |
re: #964 BigPapa
I think liberals look at wealth as a zero sum game. If I have more, you have to have less. That's why they insist that tax cuts for the rich will mean tax increases for the poor. The concept of not spending as much is a foreign one as well.
| 1020 |
SFGoth Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:38:44am |
re: #1004 jcm
We bought about 13 years ago at the beginning of the boom. Even with the hit of the last couple years in good shape. Seattle's housing market has taken the smallest hit in the country because the supply is so restricted. Two homes in my neighborhood are on the market asking $450,000. This are standard middle of road 3-4 bedroom suburban type homes, nothing fancy.
Wow. My condo - the lower unit in a duplex - is 1,100 sq. feet, 1 BR, 1 BA (nice kitchen, DR, and LR though), with a 25x50 backyard (lot is 25x110). If you had a 3-4 BR, suburban-type (single family, split level I'm assuming?) house in S.F., it'd be easily over $1 mil.
| 1021 |
avanti Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:38:45am |
re: #964 BigPapa
What's also lost is the questioning of your premise: that if you reduce taxes on the wealthy, the rest of our taxes will double or triple. Do you believe what you actually just said or are you just trying out some clever rhetoric? I could use the same logic and say that your statement just admitted that currently taxation is not fair to the wealthy. It's true anyway but I'm glad you admitted it.
It's not a matter of belief, it's a fact. Look at the stats below and see if you want to pick up the 50% of the taxes paid by the richest 5%
An enormous percentage of taxes are payed by a minority of Americans. The top 5% of taxpayers pay 50% of all taxes.
| 1022 |
turn Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:38:56am |
re: #1006 Creeping Eruption
Are you trying to ham-string the dairy pun thread?
Butter no let him get away with it, nail him.
| 1023 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:39:02am |
| 1024 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:39:07am |
Pick the financial headline of your choice...
Recession Worse Than Prior Estimates, Revisions ShowRecession eases; GDP dip smaller than expected
US economy barely grew in 2008
Economy's slower decline may signal recession's end
Why GDP Stats Are Still Ugly
US GDP beats expectations
A little something for everybody.
| 1025 |
SFGoth Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:39:28am |
re: #1011 redstateredneck
Only an arch enemy would try to turn a dairy thread to a foot thread.
I'll have to work in Blue Oyster Cult's song "She's as Beautiful as a Foot".
| 1026 |
ArchangelMichael Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:39:45am |
re: #1000 SFGoth
Problem is, where'm I going to go where the weather's cool and foggy during summer?
Nowhere that is reasonably cheaper that I can think of. Maybe Portland or Astoria, OR? (no idea if its foggy there normally).
Just use the 600k as a DP on a place with a garage in SF I guess.
| 1027 |
MrSilverDragon Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:39:45am |
| 1028 |
Lincolntf Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:40:02am |
Whenever an Obama policy fails, you can be sure that a "Nirther" story will promptly pop up to distract from his failure.
Expect a lot of Nirther stories in the next few months...
| 1029 |
Spider Mensch Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:40:08am |
re: #973 pingjockey
FCCBHO put RON FUCKING SIMS at HUD? Know I know the man is not only clueless but actually dangerous to the country as well. Ron Sims should be put into a leaky canoe filed with weasels and set adrift in the Bering Sea.
hmm..lets check the subliminal message here..Bering sea? way up north, very "Icy"...weasels?...hmmm..now where have I heard that??...why yes being in a leaky canoe with Icy-weasels would be annoying...yes..yes it would...lol
/only joking..or am I ???
| 1030 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:40:08am |
re: #974 Killgore Trout
Failure! Quagmire! Unwinnable war!
Cash-for-clunkers still operational: White House
Actually, one valid criticism of this program is the apparent lack of any sort of actual economic calibration on the part of Congress of the White House. One would have thought that the billion dollars allocated for it was arrived at with some particular result in mind; instead, the response to the larger-than-expected demand is surprise, fumbling, and a response of "It's popular, so we'll throw more money at it!" Not the signs of a mature, considered economic policy.
| 1031 |
Kronocide Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:40:17am |
re: #980 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Really, these people piss me off.
They should. They're the perpetual tire kickers who have no intention of making a purchase, but they think nothing of wasting somebody else' time for their own means and not compensating them for it.
That's greed, nothing more. But they justify this to themselves by postulating that everybody else is greedy, therefore they need to be extra careful and smart to be able to beat them at their own game.
It's a nice little circular BS philosophy.
| 1032 |
drcordell Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:40:20am |
re: #1009 iceweasel
That's the point I was trying to make. I may not agree with alot of the sentiments posted here, but at least the level of discourse is well above that of the mouth-breathers at Red State and Free Republic. It concerns me as an American to know that 28% of one political party believes the legitimately elected President isn't an American, and another 30% is unsure. Effective Democracy requires an opposition party that can offer some semblance of constructive debate. This doesn't bode well...
| 1033 |
jcm Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:40:30am |
re: #986 Creeping Eruption
I am from WI and cannot tell you how sick this makes me - on so many levels. Today is one of my kids birthdays. I had him in my lap this morning while the news was covering the story and could not comprehend how someone could let their own child die. It simply does not compute. I also have an orthodox Jewish background, so understand something about religious fervor, but also cannot connect that with letting someone die. Is is horrifying on so many levels.
I have a fundamental reading of the Bible. Once Adam and Eve were tossed from the garden they were commanded to modify the environment to survive (farming). No where is their a proscription against discovery to make our live better, in fact Proverbs says it is a glory to discovery things God has hidden.
Letting your kids die simply is not there.
| 1034 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:40:56am |
re: #1000 SFGoth
Yeah, the $200,000 condo I bought in San Fran in 1997 recently was appraised for a refi at $635,000 -- and you *know* that's conservative these days. Problem is, where'm I going to go where the weather's cool and foggy during summer? Thanks to Prop. 13 (big thumbs up), my property taxes are pretty damn low and my mortgage is less than the rental value of my place, so I'm content. I do wish I had a garage, but it's not that bad.
Well, it was 43 degrees here last night, and foggy all day. Come on over.
| 1035 |
gregb Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:40:58am |
Re: foot threads, as my wife would say: Tanner P. I think he looks like the Fox News guy.
Re: Race relations and beer? Apparently dismissing the NBP voter intimidation wasn't enough. They had to celebrate on their Myspace page.
[Link: www.washingtontimes.com...]
| 1036 |
SFGoth Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:41:04am |
Cash for clunkers - does that mean we're buying back our Congresspeople? Pretty please?
| 1037 |
Miss Trixie Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:41:08am |
| 1038 |
doppelganglander Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:41:14am |
re: #1004 jcm
We bought about 13 years ago at the beginning of the boom. Even with the hit of the last couple years in good shape. Seattle's housing market has taken the smallest hit in the country because the supply is so restricted. Two homes in my neighborhood are on the market asking $450,000. This are standard middle of road 3-4 bedroom suburban type homes, nothing fancy.
Atlanta didn't have the big run-up in existing home values that other cities did because we had a construction boom instead. Being landlocked, the metro area just keeps growing in all directions. We considered a refinance in 2006 and the appraisal indicated about 25% appreciation from our purchase price in 2000. We decided not to go through with it, which is probably just as well because we'd be underwater if we had. I estimate our home's value is about what we paid for it, and since we actually put down a down payment, we still owe less than it's worth. I'm just thankful we have no need to move for the foreseeable future.
| 1040 |
wahabicorridor Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:41:37am |
re: #994 iceweasel
Well, people like the Rasmussen polls because they like the results, and probably aren't aware of how inaccurate and slanted most Rasmussen polls are.
A few days ago some one - Maybe Walter? - posted poll rankings for accuracy.
Rasmussen was #1
| 1041 |
SFGoth Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:41:41am |
re: #1034 Walter L. Newton
Well, it was 43 degrees here last night, and foggy all day. Come on over.
Where's that? How's the O.G. Kush?
| 1042 |
The Left Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:41:41am |
re: #977 Cannadian Club Akbar
Good. I am gonna call later to find out if the person quit or if it didn't work. Just dumb luck it was in there considering yesterdays conversation. The person is asking $150. Called " White Clouds."
Good idea. I wish you luck. Also, check out how expensive it is to keep buying the replacement cartridges and how easy those are to get. I have no idea in the US, unfortuantely. Let me know how it goes!
| 1043 |
Charpete67 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:41:44am |
re: #969 drcordell
Kos didn't conduct the poll, Research 2000 did. I don't see anyone here down-dinging Rasmussen polls because they are basically paid operatives of the GOP. Research 2000 has proven themselves to be an accurate pollster in both the 2000 and 2008 elections. You can shoot the messenger all you want, but that doesn't change the facts.
Rasmussen was the the most accurate presidential poll in 2008.
| 1044 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:41:56am |
re: #1013 MandyManners
Do they try to pick your brain for ideas?
My friend had a lawn/pest control guy come to his house. Dude told my friend exactly what he was gonna do. My friend said no thanks, then went to Home Depot the next day.
| 1045 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:41:56am |
re: #1027 MrSilverDragon
What do you think was the sole reason?
He tried to Steer the puns his way, which is Bull.
He can kiss my Dairy-Air.
| 1047 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:42:23am |
re: #1013 MandyManners
Do they try to pick your brain for ideas?
All of the time. The best part is when they ask for my drawings, so they can "study" them before making a decision. That means,
"Hey! Thanks for coming out and designing our kitchen for free. Now we're going to take this the "Home Depot" and price it out with them and install it ourselves! Really, you're a swell guy! You've been very informative!"
Then I get to my very favorite part of that appointment. I say, "Absolutely not!"
They ask me what I am going to do with my drawings. I say, "Shred them."
Then I smile.
| 1048 |
calcajun Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:42:25am |
| 1049 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:42:48am |
re: #1040 wahabicorridor
A few days ago some one - Maybe Walter? - posted poll rankings for accuracy.
Rasmussen was #1
Yes, here it is...
[Link: www.fordham.edu...]
But of course, it doesn't matter...
| 1050 |
Shug Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:42:52am |
re: #973 pingjockey
FCCBHO put RON FUCKING SIMS at HUD? Know I know the man is not only clueless but actually dangerous to the country as well. Ron Sims should be put into a leaky canoe filed with weasels and set adrift in the Bering Sea.
PETA would object to weasel abuse
| 1051 |
The Left Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:42:54am |
re: #1040 wahabicorridor
A few days ago some one - Maybe Walter? - posted poll rankings for accuracy.
Rasmussen was #1
Did Rasmussen do the poll? :)
| 1052 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:42:59am |
Transparency.
Democrat resists subpoenaing VIP mortgage records
WASHINGTON (AP) - House Democrats have declined to subpoena available records that might reveal whether other members of Congress got discounted VIP mortgages from subprime lender Countrywide Financial Corp. similar to the sweetheart deals given Democratic Sens. Chris Dodd and Kent Conrad.
| 1053 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:43:07am |
re: #1030 SixDegrees
It reminds me of early liberal reaction to the invasion of Iraq: we advanced faster than expected and liberals complained is was poor planning. When we had to pause to allow supply lines to catch up they screamed "quagmire".
| 1054 |
Shug Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:43:10am |
| 1055 |
Honorary Yooper Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:43:12am |
re: #1009 iceweasel
Damn straight!
I just can't believe that it's that many people. God, I hope not. But with Lou Dobbs, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Michelle Bachmann, and others out there spreading this manure...maybe it's affecting more people than we think. I hope not.
It could be who they asked as well. IIRC, many polls in the past have appeared skewed due to who answered the phone and when. I'm curious as to the methodology used since the numbers seem so high.
| 1056 |
MandyManners Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:43:15am |
re: #1044 Cannadian Club Akbar
My friend had a lawn/pest control guy come to his house. Dude told my friend exactly what he was gonna do. My friend said no thanks, then went to Home Depot the next day.
Ouch.
| 1057 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:43:19am |
| 1058 |
Charpete67 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:43:23am |
| 1059 |
jcm Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:43:24am |
re: #1038 doppelganglander
Atlanta didn't have the big run-up in existing home values that other cities did because we had a construction boom instead. Being landlocked, the metro area just keeps growing in all directions. We considered a refinance in 2006 and the appraisal indicated about 25% appreciation from our purchase price in 2000. We decided not to go through with it, which is probably just as well because we'd be underwater if we had. I estimate our home's value is about what we paid for it, and since we actually put down a down payment, we still owe less than it's worth. I'm just thankful we have no need to move for the foreseeable future.
Seattle does have geographic restrictions, water on the west, mountains to the east. That said, the real growth constraint is called the Growth Management Act, essentially prohibiting further spread in the area.
| 1060 |
Lincolntf Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:43:27am |
re: #1040 wahabicorridor
Facts are distractions! Stick with the program, sheeshhh...
| 1061 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:43:31am |
re: #1041 SFGoth
Where's that? How's the O.G. Kush?
Sorry, I don't speak Goth, I don't understand what you just said?
| 1062 |
Creeping Eruption Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:43:34am |
re: #1031 BigPapa
They should. They're the perpetual tire kickers who have no intention of making a purchase, but they think nothing of wasting somebody else' time for their own means and not compensating them for it.
Funny you mention that. The other day I stopped by a friends new business to check it out. He was not there, but one of his employees was. I left my card and told the employee to tell my friend to call me when he got in. When my friend called, he asked what I thought of the place. I told him I did not look around. Why not? I did not want to waste his employees time. Time is money and if he is gabbing with me and giving a tour, he is not making money for himself or my friend.
Too few people get it.
| 1064 |
gregb Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:43:39am |
re: #1035 gregb
Okay, wait. Sorry for posting that. That's got to be a spoof.
| 1065 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:43:45am |
re: #1015 JohnnyReb
Oh just great. Reid is blaming the August recess deadline on the media. They are starting to panic:
[Link: thehill.com...]
"The only problem with getting a bipartisan bill is the Republican leadership in the Senate,” Reid said."
Uh hey there Senator, your friggin party controls both the House and the Senate. You don't need one single republican vote, not one, to pass anything you want to. I suggest you drop the excuses and pass your bill and see what happens.
They are REALLY afraid to go it alone. That's why they work so hard to get just one or two repubs to go along. It will give them the cover they need for 2010 when it becomes so obvious what a mess they have made.
| 1066 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:43:45am |
| 1067 |
irongrampa Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:44:07am |
re: #1036 SFGoth
Problem--you can't find one with a retail value of $4500.
| 1068 |
calcajun Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:44:13am |
re: #1036 SFGoth
Cash for clunkers - does that mean we're buying back our Congresspeople? Pretty please?
If they cannot manage that, which sounds pretty simple, what in the name of God are they gonna do with health care?
| 1069 |
turn Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:44:16am |
re: #1039 jcm
No shoe puns! I'll give anyone a tongue lashing for it!
I was having a ball lacing in a foot pun.
| 1070 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:44:30am |
re: #1053 Killgore Trout
It reminds me of early liberal reaction to the invasion of Iraq: we advanced faster than expected and liberals complained is was poor planning. When we had to pause to allow supply lines to catch up they screamed "quagmire".
all the while hoping for a high body count...nice people
| 1071 |
MandyManners Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:44:33am |
re: #1047 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Then I get to my very favorite part of that appointment. I say, "Absolutely not!"
They ask me what I am going to do with my drawings. I say, "Shred them."
Then I smile.
They try to get your work-product for free?
| 1072 |
Shug Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:44:33am |
re: #1068 calcajun
If they cannot manage that, which sounds pretty simple, what in the name of God are they gonna do with health care?
cash for cadavers?
| 1073 |
calcajun Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:45:00am |
re: #1057 Ford_Prefect
I may try to sneaker one in.
It's what we've come to expect from a loafer like you.
| 1074 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:45:07am |
re: #1070 albusteve
Yup. They rooted against us the entire way.
| 1075 |
lawhawk Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:45:22am |
re: #1024 Killgore Trout
See my posting above. There's good news - the drop in GDP in 2Q 2009 was better than expected. The bad - and there's far more of that, is that 1Q 2009 and 3Q 2008 were revised down significantly.
| 1076 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:45:31am |
| 1078 |
redstateredneck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:45:35am |
| 1080 |
Shug Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:45:46am |
Man, I just drank a Diet Pepsi since it was on a free lunch .
complete mule piss !
Diet Coke is so much better
| 1081 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:45:57am |
| 1082 |
LGoPs Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:45:57am |
re: #1019 VioletTiger
I think liberals look at wealth as a zero sum game. If I have more, you have to have less. That's why they insist that tax cuts for the rich will mean tax increases for the poor. The concept of not spending as much is a foreign one as well.
Liberals basic misunderstanding of economics can be explained with the pie argument. They argue that the rich get a bigger piece of pie and everyone else gets a smaller piece. In reality, the pie gets bigger through conservative economic policies - adding the leavening effects of hard work and industriousness. The pie is not a static, it grows.
The only thing that makes the pie smaller is government intervention. The government siphons off those key ingredients - initiative, investment, hard work - that allow the pie to grow bigger.
| 1083 |
KenJen Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:46:01am |
re: #1027 MrSilverDragon
What do you think was the sole reason?
No reason. It was just a spur of the moment thing.
| 1084 |
wahabicorridor Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:46:06am |
re: #1049 Walter L. Newton
Ah, thank you sir! Hey, how's your bird doing ? (sorry, I've forgotten her name)
| 1085 |
turn Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:46:08am |
re: #1073 calcajun
It's what we've come to expect from a loafer like you.
Yeah, let's boot him out of here.
| 1086 |
JohnnyReb Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:46:13am |
re: #1032 drcordell
That's the point I was trying to make. I may not agree with alot of the sentiments posted here, but at least the level of discourse is well above that of the mouth-breathers at Red State and Free Republic. It concerns me as an American to know that 28% of one political party believes the legitimately elected President isn't an American, and another 30% is unsure. Effective Democracy requires an opposition party that can offer some semblance of constructive debate. This doesn't bode well...
I would have to see the poll specifics. While I admit there are a bunch of nirthers, there is no way that 58% of the Republican party are unsure or convinced that Obama might not be a US citizen. Those numbers are highly suspect.
| 1087 |
drcordell Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:46:26am |
re: #1021 avanti
An enormous percentage of taxes are payed by a minority of Americans. The top 5% of taxpayers pay 50% of all taxes.
Exactly. And the fact that the top 5% pay 50% of the taxes is basically unavoidable. Even if you were to fix income tax at 1%, the billionaires among us would still contribute the vast majority of tax money collected.
Tax the $50,000/year earner at 1% and he pays $500. Tax the $5,000,000/year earner at 1% and he pays $50,000. Using the logic of comparing tax burden using the total money paid, the millionaire paid 100x "more taxes" even though both paid 1% of income. That's why the "5% pay 50% of all taxes" statistic is meaningless bullshit.
| 1088 |
ArchangelMichael Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:46:29am |
re: #1004 jcm
We bought about 13 years ago at the beginning of the boom. Even with the hit of the last couple years in good shape. Seattle's housing market has taken the smallest hit in the country because the supply is so restricted. Two homes in my neighborhood are on the market asking $450,000. This are standard middle of road 3-4 bedroom suburban type homes, nothing fancy.
I'm still saving for a place, but my father's home was bought at the top of the last CA boom in 89 for 140k and even after the plummet the last 2 years it's still valued over 400k. It's a 3 br suburban type place too, in an area with an excellent school district (as far a public schools go) so people want to move into the area.
| 1089 |
calcajun Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:46:33am |
re: #1076 Ford_Prefect
I can sandal that.
I sense a derisive tone. How dare you moccasin of God like that!///
| 1090 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:46:36am |
re: #1078 redstateredneck
That was callous of you to point that out.
This is going at a blistering pace.
| 1091 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:46:50am |
| 1092 |
calcajun Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:47:06am |
re: #1083 KenJen
No reason. It was just a spur of the moment thing.
You're trying to rowel us up, aren't you.
| 1093 |
SFGoth Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:47:15am |
re: #1053 Killgore Trout
It reminds me of early liberal reaction to the invasion of Iraq: we advanced faster than expected and liberals complained is was poor planning. When we had to pause to allow supply lines to catch up they screamed "quagmire".
I remember watching the events unfold with fascination. When we had to pause, it was obvious why. In 1943, after crushing the Army Group Center at Kursk and going on the offensive, every few months the Soviets had to pause while they brought up supplies, fuel, ammo, etc. -- and it was on their own (or incorporated into their own) territory. This is like '91 when every freaking media outlet was predicting a slaughterhouse in the hundreds of thousands. I was in ROTC at SF St. and gave an interview to the campus newspaper. They actually ran an honest and accurate story. It described me as soft-spoken (heh) and accurately quoted me (this would have been Sep. or Oct. of '90) as saying there wouldn't be a draft, there wouldn't be a lot of casualties, and it'll be over fairly quickly. Not bad for a ROTC moron.
| 1094 |
drcordell Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:47:25am |
re: #1053 Killgore Trout
It reminds me of early liberal reaction to the invasion of Iraq: we advanced faster than expected and liberals complained is was poor planning. When we had to pause to allow supply lines to catch up they screamed "quagmire".
Only a true dyed-in-the-wool GOP'er could claim the a straight face that the Iraq war was well planned.
| 1095 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:47:27am |
re: #1080 Shug
Man, I just drank a Diet Pepsi since it was on a free lunch .
complete mule piss !
Diet Coke is so much better
Doesn't mule piss cure cancer or something?
| 1096 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:47:36am |
re: #1053 Killgore Trout
It reminds me of early liberal reaction to the invasion of Iraq: we advanced faster than expected and liberals complained is was poor planning. When we had to pause to allow supply lines to catch up they screamed "quagmire".
Right now, this particular program is taking on the mantle of vote buying, and losing the gleam of economic planning it began with.
| 1097 |
Creeping Eruption Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:47:45am |
| 1098 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:47:52am |
re: #1084 wahabicorridor
Ah, thank you sir! Hey, how's your bird doing ? (sorry, I've forgotten her name)
Maisey the Parrot is fine. Thanks for asking.
| 1099 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:48:00am |
re: #1071 MandyManners
They try to get your work-product for free?
All of the time. Hence, the bitterness.
| 1100 |
Shug Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:48:18am |
| 1101 |
The Left Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:48:18am |
re: #1055 Honorary Yooper
It could be who they asked as well. IIRC, many polls in the past have appeared skewed due to who answered the phone and when. I'm curious as to the methodology used since the numbers seem so high.
Yes, that's what I meant when I said earlier that I suspected a flaw in the sample selection-- something about who they chose to poll.
BTW, for those saying Rasmussen number 1!!! -- think again. Just because Rasmussen was an accurate predictor as to the election result does not mean that they are an accurate pollster on every topic--particularly not on opinion polls.
Rasmussen needs to be evaluated on a poll-by-poll basis (like any pollster, for that matter). Rasmussen is often a skewed or biased pollster because of bias in methodology, sample selection, questions asked, and framing of questions.
| 1102 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:48:20am |
| 1103 |
saberry0530 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:48:31am |
| 1104 |
MandyManners Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:48:40am |
re: #1080 Shug
Man, I just drank a Diet Pepsi since it was on a free lunch .
complete mule piss !
Diet Coke is so much better
THANKS FOR SHARING!
| 1105 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:48:50am |
re: #987 buzzsawmonkey
There is a dictum in the Talmud to the effect that it is a sin to inquire about a price if you are not intending to buy.
Please give me a reference on that. You don't think I'll go all Jackie Mason on a customer with that? I'd really appreciate it.
| 1106 |
Kronocide Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:49:06am |
re: #1021 avanti
It's not a matter of belief, it's a fact. Look at the stats below and see if you want to pick up the 50% of the taxes paid by the richest 5%
An enormous percentage of taxes are payed by a minority of Americans. The top 5% of taxpayers pay 50% of all taxes.
You just proved my point again: you just completely ignored the esoteric impacts of taxation change on human spending behavior (while at the same time noting for the record that taxation is inherently unfair). What if taxes on the wealthy were reduced but taxes on the middle class stayed the same? What impact would that have on future tax revenue?
Oh yeah: they have to be 'paid for,' therefore, taxes on poor people must be raised.f How convenient, but it's intellectually lazy. When considering tax reductions many take the strict utilitarian approach to the numbers and ignore all else. Of course they use the same logic when discussing increases in taxation as well.
| 1107 |
calcajun Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:49:14am |
re: #1102 Ford_Prefect
Come on. Can't you let it slipper past?
No-- the malefactors must be brought to heel.
| 1108 |
turn Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:49:15am |
re: #1078 redstateredneck
That was callous of you to point that out.
OT Hey red, what the difference between a communist and a fasciitis?
| 1109 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:49:25am |
re: #1074 Killgore Trout
Yup. They rooted against us the entire way.
I want to just let it go...but honestly it doesn't do my attitude much good, and I'm trying to dial back the hostility
| 1110 |
pingjockey Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:49:29am |
re: #1094 drcordell
The WAR was extremely well planned. The aftermath was not.
| 1111 |
Creeping Eruption Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:49:46am |
re: #1091 SasquatchOnSteroids
You're just clogging up the thread.
I can't stand how people flip-flop between puns here. Lets be consistent folks.
| 1112 |
MandyManners Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:49:55am |
re: #1099 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
All of the time. Hence, the bitterness.
Have you thought about selling them the plans?
| 1113 |
doppelganglander Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:49:57am |
re: #1059 jcm
Seattle does have geographic restrictions, water on the west, mountains to the east. That said, the real growth constraint is called the Growth Management Act, essentially prohibiting further spread in the area.
Thomas Sowell has written a lot about similar legislation in the Bay Area that has made San Francisco and environs far too expensive for the average person. He points out that environmentalism in the extreme has severe negative consequences for individuals, especially the poor and minorities. And when two liberal principles - protection of the downtrodden and protection of the environment - collide, apparently the trees win and people lose.
| 1114 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:50:24am |
re: #1112 MandyManners
Have you thought about selling them the plans?
They get very offended.
Yeah, I know.
| 1115 |
BlueCanuck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:50:33am |
re: #1087 drcordell
Yes and no. Not totally meaningless. Some people that make under the poverty line essentially pay no income taxes, people over it will pay proportionally more, while the "rich" will pay more in income tax. Yes they do end up paying more. They are also the highest taxed group out there. A flat tax would be fairer over all because every one would expect the same tax rate instead of a variable one that is used now.
| 1116 |
calcajun Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:50:36am |
re: #1108 turn
OT Hey red, what the difference between a communist and a fasciitis?
One's a political party and the other, they way you spelled it, is a bone disorder.
| 1117 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:50:44am |
re: #1108 turn
OT Hey red, what the difference between a communist and a fasciitis?
How dare you planter that one on us?
| 1118 |
Lincolntf Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:50:55am |
The funny part of this story is that even if the "backlog" excuse is real, then it certainly doesn't make me feel any better. The Government requires a piece of information from the dealer/buyer in order to disburse funds. The dealer/buyer submit that info. and the Gov't disburse the funds to the dealer. Any private company in the modern world could accomplish this basic transaction in minutes.
The Gov't (which doesn't even have to worry about profitability, for crying out loud) failed at this basic commercial task to the point that they were out of business before they even really began.
Remember this for Health Care, people. It will be much, much worse.
| 1119 |
Shug Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:50:58am |
re: #1106 BigPapa
You just proved my point again: you just completely ignored the esoteric impacts of taxation change on human spending behavior (while at the same time noting for the record that taxation is inherently unfair). What if taxes on the wealthy were reduced but taxes on the middle class stayed the same? What impact would that have on future tax revenue?
Oh yeah: they have to be 'paid for,' therefore, taxes on poor people must be raised.f How convenient, but it's intellectually lazy. When considering tax reductions many take the strict utilitarian approach to the numbers and ignore all else. Of course they use the same logic when discussing increases in taxation as well.
The entire "stimulus" package cost the same as giving every American a 1 year holiday from paying payroll taxes
imagine the stimulus that would have created.
can you say Every flight booked. every room booked. best buy sold out. apple store sold out. malls jam packed, etc etc etc.
but instead we get millions to research Hog farts
| 1120 |
Charpete67 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:51:17am |
re: #1101 iceweasel
Yes, that's what I meant when I said earlier that I suspected a flaw in the sample selection-- something about who they chose to poll.
BTW, for those saying Rasmussen number 1!!! -- think again. Just because Rasmussen was an accurate predictor as to the election result does not mean that they are an accurate pollster on every topic--particularly not on opinion polls.
Rasmussen needs to be evaluated on a poll-by-poll basis (like any pollster, for that matter). Rasmussen is often a skewed or biased pollster because of bias in methodology, sample selection, questions asked, and framing of questions.
I'm not saying he's #1 (I honestly have no freakin clue), I'm just saying that you can't just right him off as a right winger or worse, say he's an ideologue on a par with the DailyKOS.
| 1121 |
Honorary Yooper Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:51:22am |
re: #1094 drcordell
Only a true dyed-in-the-wool GOP'er could claim the a straight face that the Iraq war was well planned.
There were plenty who claimed it was not well planned from the outset, but because they were pro-war as opposed to anti-war, I suspect you'll just dismiss them.
| 1122 |
saberry0530 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:51:38am |
re: #1116 calcajun
One's a political party and the other, they way you spelled it, is a bone disorder.
THought it was a skin disorder??
| 1123 |
LGoPs Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:51:39am |
re: #1111 Creeping Eruption
I can't stand how people flip-flop between puns here. Lets be consistent folks.
That was not humerus. Just thought I'd sneaker that one in...
| 1124 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:51:42am |
re: #1111 Creeping Eruption
I can't stand how people flip-flop between puns here. Lets be consistent folks.
Why? What's thong with it?
| 1125 |
calcajun Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:51:45am |
re: #1111 Creeping Eruption
I can't stand how people flip-flop between puns here. Lets be consistent folks.
They trying to drive a wedge between us, people. Whoever wins get brogan rights!
| 1126 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:51:55am |
re: #1087 drcordell
Exactly. And the fact that the top 5% pay 50% of the taxes is basically unavoidable. Even if you were to fix income tax at 1%, the billionaires among us would still contribute the vast majority of tax money collected.
Tax the $50,000/year earner at 1% and he pays $500. Tax the $5,000,000/year earner at 1% and he pays $50,000. Using the logic of comparing tax burden using the total money paid, the millionaire paid 100x "more taxes" even though both paid 1% of income. That's why the "5% pay 50% of all taxes" statistic is meaningless bullshit.
Far from bullshit when the constant liberal argument is that the 'rich' don't pay enough or pay their fair share.
| 1127 |
turn Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:51:59am |
| 1129 |
calcajun Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:53:06am |
re: #1127 turn
Yeah I guess so, zorrie about that.
I'm not clear on that one. I'll have to mule that one over.
| 1130 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:53:07am |
re: #1094 drcordell
Only a true dyed-in-the-wool GOP'er could claim the a straight face that the Iraq war was well planned.
Turkey wouldn't let us come in from the North.
IMO, we needed twice the troops. You CRUSH the enemy.
Other than Iraq, every other war went off without a hitch, right.
| 1131 |
Shug Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:53:18am |
re: #1126 VioletTiger
Far from bullshit when the constant liberal argument is that the 'rich' don't pay enough or pay their fair share.
They don't pay their fair share. they pay an unfair share!
too much !
| 1132 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:53:19am |
I love what Michelle Malkin wrote about Biden at the "beer summit."
Joe Biden just showed up out of nowhere apparently uninvited like the unemployed brother-in-law living in your basement who you hope doesn’t wake up when you’re having friends over for cocktails who stumbles up the stairs in his underwear, sneezes on the hor d’oeuvres, scratches his butt and pees in the sink. Okay, maybe not, but that’s how it appeared to me.
| 1133 |
Charpete67 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:53:53am |
re: #1130 Cannadian Club Akbar
Turkey wouldn't let us come in from the North.
IMO, we needed twice the troops. You CRUSH the enemy.
Other than Iraq, every other war went off without a hitch, right.
we didn't crush them?//
| 1134 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:54:30am |
re: #1111 Creeping Eruption
I can't stand how people flip-flop between puns here. Lets be consistent folks.
I missed recording The Beer Party last night. My Teva didn't work correctly.
| 1136 |
BlueCanuck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:54:35am |
re: #1094 drcordell
Only a true dyed-in-the-wool GOP'er could claim the a straight face that the Iraq war was well planned.
No plans survive contact with the enemy. This dictum is used in modern warfare more often then any other. In fact that whole out pacing your supply lines is indictative of a poorly prepared enemy. You have to move faster to stay in contact with him then you were prepared for. Poor planning? Maybe, highly doubtful it was terrible planning.
| 1137 |
drcordell Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:54:57am |
re: #1110 pingjockey
The WAR was extremely well planned. The aftermath was not.
You act like the two are separable. Obviously you have to occupy a nation with completely destroyed infrastructure, deposed government and disbanded military.
Conservatives love to attack the Government as useless, claim the government isn't qualified to run healthcare, education, etc. etc. Yet when anyone criticizes the push for an invasion because they don't believe we can successfully handle running and occupying another entire nation, that's unpatriotic.
| 1138 |
turn Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:55:16am |
re: #1116 calcajun
One's a political party and the other, they way you spelled it, is a bone disorder.
You tendon miss the actual location of the disorder cajun.
| 1140 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:55:39am |
Gateway Pundit:
OBAMA SECRET SERVICE Pulls Guns On Conservative Tea Party Protesters In Bristol
This came in the email after Dear Leader's town hall event on Obamacare in Bristol, Virginia:
Hey Gateway Pundit.
I attended the town hall event in Bristol,VA today. Though very few were allowed inside, there was an amazing turnout outside of people protest healthcare reform, among other things. I hope to send you pictures soon of some great signs I saw. It was expected that those in opposition to the bill would outnumber those in favor by 10-1, but I feel it was much, much more.
I do have a question I was hoping you could answer. During the motorcade when the president was arriving, there were several vehicles following the limo that contained the secret service. All of the vehicles had all the windows rolled down, and back hatch open on the SUVs with the men holding their, I assume assault rifes, machine guns, drawn on everyone lining the streets. Needless to say it took my breath away at the sight of them, and made my friends and I dizzy with fear. I have seen the secret service before, but never like this. While they were intimidating, I never felt in danger. The guns were not drawn when the motorcade was leaving the event. But I turned on a local talk radio program as we were leaving and all the calls were about witnessing the guns being pointed at them and nothing else until the end of the program.
Having said all that, my question is, is this normal protocol during such an event? It very well could be, but after I had to get over the shock of it, I began to feel offended. We were all there peaceful, and have no problems with Obama the man, we have problems with his policies and wanted him to know the opposition was there to be heard, and know that a strong opposition did indeed exist, and that so many people don't approve of his policies, with this bill in particular.
So, is this normal, and I'm making a mountain out of mole hill, or did they make an exception in this mainly conservative area?
Thanks.
Destiny BakerNO Destiny. It's not normal for the secret service to pull their assault guns on conservative protesters as they drive through town.
Is this SOP for the SS?
| 1141 |
MandyManners Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:55:54am |
| 1142 |
Kronocide Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:56:22am |
re: #1047 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Then I get to my very favorite part of that appointment. I say, "Absolutely not!".
The consultation is free. The design work, which is what has the most value and what you brought me here for, is not.
I go through the same problem in my business. Some people don't know they're doing it and will concede once you politely point it out. The ones who know what they're doing are scoundrels and you have to watch yourself because they'll be a PITA client all the way through, justifying their behavior by thinking that you're going to rip them off if they don't watch you. It's another form of projection.
Being cheap or greedy is deep down based on the same psychology, and has nothing to do with wealth or lack of it.
| 1143 |
drcordell Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:56:24am |
re: #1119 Shug
The entire "stimulus" package cost the same as giving every American a 1 year holiday from paying payroll taxes
imagine the stimulus that would have created.
can you say Every flight booked. every room booked. best buy sold out. apple store sold out. malls jam packed, etc etc etc.
but instead we get millions to research Hog farts
Uh. No. Did you not notice what happened when the last round of Bush stimulus checks were distributed to the public? They were saved. Used to pay mortgages that were past due. Used to pay off credit card bills. Put in savings accounts for later. During a recession people don't run out to buy a new iPod. They become thrifty.
| 1144 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:56:26am |
re: #1114 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
They get very offended.
Yeah, I know.
A customer called me an "asshole" once for not handing her my work product for free. (her son worked for Lowes, and had told her to get someone to design the job for her, and he'd get the materials with his employee discount)...
I replied, "Yes Ma'am. I just drove three hours to your house, I have a three hour drive home. I just spent two and a half hours with you. A full day out of my life, to give you free advice, when the whole time, you had no intentions of doing business with me...
And I am the bad guy. Enjoy your day, Ma'am." And I left.
Company received a complaint on me.
| 1145 |
BlueCanuck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:56:30am |
re: #1137 drcordell
I am curious, were you here before as another poster? Your talking points sound strangely familiar. And your style as well.
| 1146 |
Van Helsing Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:56:51am |
re: #1129 calcajun
I'm not clear on that one. I'll have to mule that one over.
Don't you heels ever stop?
| 1147 |
turn Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:57:25am |
re: #1117 Ford_Prefect
How dare you planter that one on us?
I was just trying to have fun, and call me gus ok?
| 1148 |
drcordell Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:57:29am |
re: #1145 BlueCanuck
No I'm not a sock puppet, you Canadian fuck.
| 1149 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:57:40am |
re: #1130 Cannadian Club Akbar
Turkey wouldn't let us come in from the North.
IMO, we needed twice the troops. You CRUSH the enemy.
Other than Iraq, every other war went off without a hitch, right.
I'd liken it to the Spanish-American war. The conventional war with Spain was over in 5 months & was an overwhelming success. Fighting the insurgency in the Philippines took another 15 years, plus another 30 years of military occupation.
| 1150 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:57:47am |
| 1151 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:57:52am |
re: #1101 iceweasel
Yes, that's what I meant when I said earlier that I suspected a flaw in the sample selection-- something about who they chose to poll.
BTW, for those saying Rasmussen number 1!!! -- think again. Just because Rasmussen was an accurate predictor as to the election result does not mean that they are an accurate pollster on every topic--particularly not on opinion polls.
Rasmussen needs to be evaluated on a poll-by-poll basis (like any pollster, for that matter). Rasmussen is often a skewed or biased pollster because of bias in methodology, sample selection, questions asked, and framing of questions.
Can you direct me to proof of those statements? I'd like to see the statistical analysis used to arrive at them.
Yesterday's CNN Poll of Polls on Presidential approval mirrored the latest Rasmussen results to within a couple of point - well within the noise band, and presumably more "accurate" in the sense that it smooths out various skews and sampling problems the individual polls may contain.
Besides - I've never noted that Rasmussen's results differ in any statistically significant way from other large, national polls - hence my interest in your sources. The only exception would be polls conducted by newspapers of their readership - I don't think anyone would mistake the results of a NYT or WSJ poll as being uniformly sampled. Polling companies, however, thrive on their accuracy, not on the confirmation of agenda.
| 1152 |
LGoPs Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:57:55am |
re: #1145 BlueCanuck
I am curious, were you here before as another poster? Your talking points sound strangely familiar. And your style as well.
We had a poster named Asshat?
/
| 1153 |
The Left Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:58:11am |
re: #1120 Charpete67
I'm not saying he's #1 (I honestly have no freakin clue), I'm just saying that you can't just right him off as a right winger or worse, say he's an ideologue on a par with the DailyKOS.
Actually, you can. I've been on top of the Rasmussen polls; their opinion polls are (not always, but far too often) biased and flawed. There's a reason why they're now the GOP's favourite go-to pollster. There's a pattern of flawed methodology in the opinion polls.
I don't yet know enough about Reason 2000 to say anything categorical about their methods, but this particular poll does seem much higher than I would have expected, and I know there has been at least one other reason 2000 poll in the past that I found to be flawed. I think I had the same questions about sample selection.
| 1155 |
MandyManners Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:58:35am |
re: #1140 NJDhockeyfan
Gateway Pundit:
OBAMA SECRET SERVICE Pulls Guns On Conservative Tea Party Protesters In Bristol
Is this SOP for the SS?
WTF?
| 1156 |
wahabicorridor Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:58:36am |
re: #1140 NJDhockeyfan
Gateway Pundit:
OBAMA SECRET SERVICE Pulls Guns On Conservative Tea Party Protesters In Bristol
I'm not at all certain that was USSC. Were they wearing uniforms? Black?
Is this SOP for the SS?
| 1157 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:58:36am |
re: #1145 BlueCanuck
I am curious, were you here before as another poster? Your talking points sound strangely familiar. And your style as well.
He was Intern Cordell, now he's a doctor ;)
| 1158 |
BlueCanuck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:58:47am |
re: #1148 drcordell
No I'm not a sock puppet, you Canadian fuck.
At least I am proud of my country and where I am from.
| 1159 |
kansas Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:59:08am |
re: #1094 drcordell
Only a true dyed-in-the-wool GOP'er could claim the a straight face that the Iraq war was well planned.
And the liberals are where on Iraq and Afghanistan? Obviously not shooting off their big mouths now that their rookie is in charge and voting present doesn't work.
| 1160 |
Charpete67 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:59:18am |
| 1161 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:59:21am |
re: #1148 drcordell
Nice doctor, bigot.
| 1162 |
SFGoth Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:59:22am |
re: #1137 drcordell
You act like the two are separable. Obviously you have to occupy a nation with completely destroyed infrastructure, deposed government and disbanded military.
Conservatives love to attack the Government as useless, claim the government isn't qualified to run healthcare, education, etc. etc. Yet when anyone criticizes the push for an invasion because they don't believe we can successfully handle running and occupying another entire nation, that's unpatriotic.
It is my belief that Bush thought the aftermath would be easy because Muslims believe in the same god as Christians, etc., yadda yadda. I like an optimistic president, but not one who's naively so. We didn't take over Iraq in '91 when we probably could've made the case for it. As soon as we leave, that sucking sound you'll hear is whatever good we accomplished going right out the window. Now, how's Afghanistan coming along? Poppy eradication program working?
| 1163 |
redstateredneck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:59:22am |
re: #1108 turn
OT Hey red, what the difference between a communist and a fasciitis?
You must be trying to plantar a trick question there.
| 1164 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:59:25am |
re: #1150 Ford_Prefect
Nope. we just keep tapping them out.
It's our Achilles heel around here. Can't stop.
| 1165 |
drcordell Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:59:38am |
re: #1158 BlueCanuck
At least I am proud of my country and where I am from.
You're proud of being a Canadian? Even with the *GASP* socialized medicine you have in your country! I can't believe it!
| 1166 |
ArchangelMichael Fri, Jul 31, 2009 8:59:48am |
re: #1155 MandyManners
I'd give it the 24 hour rule. It's setting off my BS detector so far.
| 1167 |
Shug Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:00:11am |
re: #1143 drcordell
Uh. No. Did you not notice what happened when the last round of Bush stimulus checks were distributed to the public? They were saved. Used to pay mortgages that were past due. Used to pay off credit card bills. Put in savings accounts for later. During a recession people don't run out to buy a new iPod. They become thrifty.
600 dollars = save it.
not paying payroll taxes for the whole year = lots of people spending it
and don't forget that those of us who would galdly blow 600 bucks on something fun, didn't get a fucking "stimulus" check
| 1168 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:00:12am |
Bush caved to congress and the anti war droolers and that was getting slot of people killed...once the ROEs were loosened up it was all over...Fallujah II comes to mind...letting Mookie skate was another mistake...all from just trying to be civil
| 1169 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:00:21am |
re: #1080 Shug
Man, I just drank a Diet Pepsi since it was on a free lunch .
complete mule piss !
Diet Coke is so much better
Maybe it wasn't mule piss.
Man claims he found a rodent inside Diet Pepsi can
ORMOND BEACH, Fla. (AP) - The Food and Drug Administration is testing a Diet Pepsi can that a central Florida man claims had the remains of a possible rodent inside. Fred Denegri of Ormond Beach took a few sips from the can on July 23, only later to discover what was inside. He said the rodent was big enough that it wouldn't come out of the can.
Pepsi officials said Wednesday they traced the can back to the manufacturing plant in Orlando and didn't find anything wrong with the company's quality controls and soda sampling. Spokesman Jeff Dahncke said it's unlikely that something like this could happen during production.
| 1170 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:00:26am |
re: #1160 Charpete67
Don't quote that sort of stuff.
| 1172 |
avanti Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:00:55am |
re: #1140 NJDhockeyfan
Gateway Pundit:
OBAMA SECRET SERVICE Pulls Guns On Conservative Tea Party Protesters In Bristol
Is this SOP for the SS?
Yes, it is.
| 1173 |
Kragar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:00:56am |
Who ordered the large side order of dickhead in the thread this morning?
| 1174 |
BlueCanuck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:00:58am |
| 1175 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:00:58am |
re: #1148 drcordell
No I'm not a sock puppet, you Canadian fuck.
YA!! Now we will invade and loot your BEER!!! You can keep the Leafs...
///
| 1176 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:01:01am |
re: #1145 BlueCanuck
I am curious, were you here before as another poster? Your talking points sound strangely familiar. And your style as well.
I was thinking the same thing.
| 1177 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:01:06am |
| 1178 |
turn Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:01:06am |
| 1179 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:01:09am |
re: #1169 NJDhockeyfan
Sounds like a Strange Brew to me.
| 1180 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:01:21am |
re: #1165 drcordell
You're proud of being a Canadian? Even with the *GASP* socialized medicine you have in your country! I can't believe it!
IMHO, you better get your next sock puppet ready, because your account is probably history.
| 1181 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:01:23am |
| 1182 |
lawhawk Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:01:32am |
re: #1087 drcordell
Which group of income earners is the one responsible for job growth in the country.
Here's a hint. It's not the folks who pay no taxes at all. It's the rich - or at least those who are paying taxes. Those who were wealthiest were the ones who were hammered hardest during the recession and the credit crunch and the Wall Street meltdown and the real estate bust.
Why? Because when their taxes dried up, someone else had to make up all the revenue lost. Taxing the same group that just lost all that money isn't going to bring back the revenues since the first obligation isn't to growing jobs, but making sure that the tax obligations are paid. That means fewer people are hired back (that costs more than previously).
It's a major reason why NY and NJ face massive budget holes - you can only tax the rich so much before they go elsewhere - to lower tax burden states.
As for the argument that the richest x% pays x% of taxes is a meaningless statistic, it absolutely is not. It shows that government is disproportionately reliant on a particular subset of the American taxpayer - and if that group is in trouble, there's no one else who can bail them (or the states and fed that spend out of control) out.
| 1183 |
Van Helsing Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:01:38am |
re: #1167 Shug
600 dollars = save it.
not paying payroll taxes for the whole year = lots of people spending it
and don't forget that those of us who would galdly blow 600 bucks on something fun, didn't get a fucking "stimulus" check
Well said.
A YEAR of no federal withholding (for those evil rich among us) is going to stimulate the heck out of the economy.
| 1184 |
Creeping Eruption Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:01:51am |
| 1185 |
MrSilverDragon Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:01:52am |
re: #1148 drcordell
No I'm not a sock puppet, you Canadian fuck.
Well, I was listening to your comments (maybe not agreeing, but listening) but I guess there's no reason to do so now.
Way to sway your audience.
| 1187 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:02:11am |
| 1188 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:02:20am |
re: #1175 Cannadian Club Akbar
YA!! Now we will invade and loot your BEER!!! You can keep the Leafs...
///
Don't quote that sort of stuff.
| 1189 |
The Left Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:02:21am |
re: #1148 drcordell
No I'm not a sock puppet, you .
Dude, I'm on your ideological side here, but that last bit was uncalled for. BlueCanuck is a nice guy and didn't deserve that.
(besides, what does where someone's from have to do with anything?)
| 1190 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:02:22am |
re: #1175 Cannadian Club Akbar
YA!! Now we will invade and loot your BEER!!! You can keep the Leafs...
///
That's considered a war crime, my friend.
| 1191 |
Miss Trixie Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:02:27am |
Question(s) for techie-lizards:
This week when I fired up my machine and clicked on my browser to load, all my tabs would not connect. I called my ISP provided who said the my machine's "not fnding the network card" and to go to their store to install a device to surf wirelessly or call someone from a "Geek Squad".
I'm online now because I played around with the internal wireless device and although it's not as secure as a cable, nevertheless here I am. My question(s): what is a network card? Am I safe surfing the way I am? Will surfing as I am cause my ISP to charge me more or are they even aware of it?
My thanks in advance.
| 1192 |
SFGoth Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:02:28am |
re: #1168 albusteve
letting Mookie skate was another mistake...all from just trying to be civil
Better a martyr than a rabble rouser, I always say. By the way, I can't recall the last time I heard anything from Mookie. Hmmm.
| 1193 |
irongrampa Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:02:43am |
re: #1154 Creeping Eruption
Yes. But unfortunately typical.
| 1194 |
Shug Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:02:51am |
Damn :
I replied to that scumbag before realizing I should have had his sorry ass on GAZE
buh bye you POS
| 1195 |
BlueCanuck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:02:53am |
re: #1165 drcordell
You're proud of being a Canadian? Even with the *GASP* socialized medicine you have in your country! I can't believe it!
I don't like the system, it's too throughly integrated with what we have. We do need to change it. If I am screaming about it, it's because I don't want to see anyone else make the same mistake. No matter how bad things are up here, I am willing to stay and find a way to make things better. Isn't that what a patriot is supposed to do?
| 1196 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:02:58am |
re: #1178 turn
Yeah, but it's not because we are so high it's because you're such a heel.
If these puns get booted out, I won't cry any Croc tears.
| 1197 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:03:07am |
re: #1153 iceweasel
In what way are they biased and flawed?
| 1198 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:03:22am |
re: #1166 ArchangelMichael
I'd give it the 24 hour rule. It's setting off my BS detector so far.
Agree. Something isn't right with this tale.
| 1199 |
jcm Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:03:54am |
re: #1143 drcordell
Uh. No. Did you not notice what happened when the last round of Bush stimulus checks were distributed to the public? They were saved. Used to pay mortgages that were past due. Used to pay off credit card bills. Put in savings accounts for later. During a recession people don't run out to buy a new iPod. They become thrifty.
And the Bush stimulus was uniformly mocked here also.
| 1201 |
BlueCanuck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:03:58am |
re: #1181 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
True North and Free.
True North STRONG and Free!
/please get that part right. ;)
| 1202 |
pingjockey Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:04:13am |
re: #1137 drcordell
Hey doc as a vet, and this is just for you FOAD! Also, the little deal with terrorists aided by Iran, Syria, Hezebollocks etc... didn't help matters either. Criticize all you want, the gov't can't run shit and do it well, there are too many layers of incompetence piled on layer of ineptitude for the folks that do a good job to make a difference.
| 1203 |
drcordell Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:04:18am |
re: #1167 Shug
600 dollars = save it.
not paying payroll taxes for the whole year = lots of people spending it
and don't forget that those of us who would galdly blow 600 bucks on something fun, didn't get a fucking "stimulus" check
You can keep blathering your supply-side economics nonsense, but the economic data doesn't lie. How'd those 8 years of Bush tax cuts work out for the economy at large? I'd link you to the relevant statistics but it's clear that facts don't seem to affect your reasoning. Cutting taxes in a recession doesn't create demand. And furthermore, tax rates are already the lowest they have been in 25 years.
| 1205 |
BlueCanuck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:04:51am |
re: #1175 Cannadian Club Akbar
*sigh* Why not, we are used to them by this point.
| 1206 |
lawhawk Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:04:56am |
re: #1143 drcordell
You mean they started to engage in rational behavior instead of spending out of control? They were far more saavy than those who were spending out of control and bought homes on no money down, no credit, etc., which now costs all taxpayers hundreds of billions to bail out the credit industry forced to cover the losses and the collapse of the credit markets because no one could figure out how to value anything on their books.
The same thing goes with the cash for clunkers. If you're looking to buy a car now, and have one to trade in - they're going to take advantage of it (if they qualify). If they're not needing a car (or don't qualify) they're not going to take advantage of the program, which would indicate like the Bush stimulus of $600 as you claim - it will not increase sales and it will not lead to more spending.
| 1207 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:05:02am |
| 1208 |
The Left Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:05:03am |
re: #1184 Creeping Eruption
I don't have a problem with it. Dem or Republican, the President needs protection.
Exactly. For all we know a specific threat had been called in or reported.
Obama received SS protection long before any other candidate because of the sheer volume of threats he was getting (from white supremacists and racists I'm sure.) I think he's had SS protection since January 2007.
| 1209 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:05:13am |
re: #1192 SFGoth
Better a martyr than a rabble rouser, I always say. By the way, I can't recall the last time I heard anything from Mookie. Hmmm.
me neither...probably hanging out in Paris
| 1210 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:05:14am |
| 1211 |
MandyManners Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:05:44am |
re: #1143 drcordell
Uh. No. Did you not notice what happened when the last round of Bush stimulus checks were distributed to the public? They were saved. Used to pay mortgages that were past due. Used to pay off credit card bills. Put in savings accounts for later. During a recession people don't run out to buy a new iPod. They become thrifty.
WAB said $600.00 would buy a pair of earrings.
| 1212 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:05:52am |
re: #1203 drcordell
You can keep blathering your supply-side economics nonsense, but the economic data doesn't lie. How'd those 8 years of Bush tax cuts work out for the economy at large? I'd link you to the relevant statistics but it's clear that facts don't seem to affect your reasoning. Cutting taxes in a recession doesn't create demand. And furthermore, tax rates are already the lowest they have been in 25 years.
Hey folks, please ignore this person. Support your fellow Lizards. Did you read what he posted about BlueCannuck?
GAZE.
| 1213 |
debutaunt Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:05:53am |
re: #1028 Lincolntf
Whenever an Obama policy fails, you can be sure that a "Nirther" story will promptly pop up to distract from his failure.
Expect a lot of Nirther stories in the next few months...
And debates about the validity of polls about nirthers.
| 1214 |
avanti Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:05:56am |
re: #1184 Creeping Eruption
I don't have a problem with it. Dem or Republican, the President needs protection.
Well, if this popped up, I'd would be intimidated.
| 1215 |
Kragar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:06:34am |
re: #1203 drcordell
You can keep blathering your supply-side economics nonsense, but the economic data doesn't lie. How'd those 8 years of Bush tax cuts work out for the economy at large?
The tax cuts worked great. Now if only someone had managed to control the Dems push on bad mortgage practices.
| 1216 |
jvic Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:06:43am |
re: #1009 iceweasel
I just can't believe that it's that many people. God, I hope not. But with Lou Dobbs, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Michelle Bachmann, and others out there spreading this manure...maybe it's affecting more people than we think. I hope not.
Remember how, in the teeth of public disapproval, the GOP insisted on impeaching Clinton after the Lewinsky scandal broke. (Sure sure...they impeached him for lying about sex not for the sex itself...they had no choice...it was their sacred Constitutional trust...yeah yeah...) Instead of a GOP landslide as a disgraced Clinton was kept twisting in the wind, only Gore's incompetence prevented an easy Democrat victory in 2000.
And here we go again.
Imagine the Republican race in 2012 as Palin, Paul and Huckabee debate the nuances of nirtherism--and gang up on whoever ventures to utter a sane sentence.
***
In 1994 Bill Clinton was considered all but unreelectable. He rethought his Administration from the ground up and wound up with an objectively successful Presidency notwithstanding how he disgraced the office.
Therefore, here's hoping that Obama's popularity collapses as soon as possible.
| 1217 |
Kronocide Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:06:48am |
re: #1137 drcordell
Conservatives love to attack the Government as useless, claim the government isn't qualified to run health care, education, etc. etc. Yet when anyone criticizes the push for an invasion because they don't believe we can successfully handle running and occupying another entire nation, that's unpatriotic.
You're reaching really far just to prove some ethereal contradiction. Government is inefficient and expensive and doesn't do well in most things. It does war better than others, but of course it needs to be left to professionals (soldiers/sailors/AF) and to private industry (manufacturers of weapons and materials).
But that begs the question: isn't Iraq better off with the worst of America than the best of their previous ruling party? Instead of just trying to imply that conservatives are hypocrites try to answer me that.
And don't cop out by saying 'but we can't save every country.'
| 1219 |
avanti Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:06:53am |
re: #1207 Killgore Trout
They should have busted out this one...
Secret Service MINI GUN SUV[Video]
Crap, beat me to it. :)
| 1221 |
drcordell Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:07:29am |
re: #1182 lawhawk
It shows that government is disproportionately reliant on a particular subset of the American taxpayer - and if that group is in trouble, there's no one else who can bail them (or the states and fed that spend out of control) out.
Haven't you been paying attention? We did bail that group out. Where do you think the trillions of dollars of TARP money went? You think it's a bunch of poor people that own stock in Goldman Sachs and the other investment banks? For your sake I sure hope you are fabulously wealthy, because if not you are simply shilling for people that could give a rat's ass if you die in the gutter.
| 1222 |
Van Helsing Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:07:38am |
re: #1203 drcordell
You can keep blathering your supply-side economics nonsense, but the economic data doesn't lie. How'd those 8 years of Bush tax cuts work out for the economy at large? I'd link you to the relevant statistics but it's clear that facts don't seem to affect your reasoning. Cutting taxes in a recession doesn't create demand. And furthermore, tax rates are already the lowest they have been in 25 years.
They actually worked out fairly well considering the minor bumps that hit the economy. Little things like the WTC GETTING ATTACKED!
Bit of a setback, that was. And yet things moved along quite well until congress' chickens came home to roost. Lax oversight, lax lending rules mandated, etc.
Everything could have been better, but it also could have been much, much worse.
| 1223 |
Kragar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:07:38am |
re: #1212 Walter L. Newton
Hey folks, please ignore this person. Support your fellow Lizards. Did you read what he posted about BlueCannuck?
GAZE.
But if you poke it with a stick, you can make it twitch.
| 1224 |
Lincolntf Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:07:43am |
re: #1198 SixDegrees
I assume it's SOP for the Pres. motorcade. The person who wrote in probably just got a real good view of the guys most of us never see. I've only seen the motorcade once and I didn't see any weapons, but I was a little distance away. I'm sure if I got a peek into the Suburban it would have been a different story.
That said, Obama does seem to have an irrational fear of rural people who "cling to their guns and religion" so it would be in character for him to want extra-special protection while in ol' Virginny.
| 1225 |
JohnnyReb Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:07:50am |
re: #1203 drcordell
You can keep blathering your supply-side economics nonsense, but the economic data doesn't lie. How'd those 8 years of Bush tax cuts work out for the economy at large? I'd link you to the relevant statistics but it's clear that facts don't seem to affect your reasoning. Cutting taxes in a recession doesn't create demand. And furthermore, tax rates are already the lowest they have been in 25 years.
And increasing tax rates on the top 1% of tax payers is going to help the economy how exactly? And is won't stop at $250K either. Everyone over about $45K are going to have a tax increase when the Bush tax cuts expire at the end of this year.
| 1226 |
CommonCents Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:07:59am |
re: #1118 Lincolntf
The funny part of this story is that even if the "backlog" excuse is real, then it certainly doesn't make me feel any better. The Government requires a piece of information from the dealer/buyer in order to disburse funds. The dealer/buyer submit that info. and the Gov't disburse the funds to the dealer. Any private company in the modern world could accomplish this basic transaction in minutes.
The Gov't (which doesn't even have to worry about profitability, for crying out loud) failed at this basic commercial task to the point that they were out of business before they even really began.
Remember this for Health Care, people. It will be much, much worse.
Clock is ticking on when the news breaks that a near-bankrupt dealer(s) submitted false claims to get the govt cash. After all, the govt is so good at tracking social security numbers, why would they get serious about VIN numbers?
| 1227 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:08:03am |
| 1228 |
Shug Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:08:17am |
re: #1205 BlueCanuck
*sigh* Why not, we are used to them by this point.
I love my Canadian friends.
except maybe for George Strombolopolous
| 1229 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:08:25am |
From upthread
trolls...heh
[Link: [Link: www.americanthinker.com...]...]
The consensus among experienced victims of the Troll flu in defending the integrity of a web site from an epidemic invasion is to ignore the Troll. For a Troll to be ignored is equal to not watering your avocado plant in your kitchen window. Eventually, it will dry up and wither away. Wisegeek.com advises us, "Trolls often use fallacious arguments or attack the members of the discussion thread when they attempt to defend themselves" from the Troll's ad hominem attacks. This is another reason not to feed the beast with a response.
Good advice.
| 1230 |
drcordell Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:08:57am |
re: #1212 Walter L. Newton
Hey folks, please ignore this person. Support your fellow Lizards. Did you read what he posted about BlueCannuck?
GAZE.
The guy called me a sock-puppet, and I dropped an F-bomb. It was in poor taste, but hardly outrageous.
| 1231 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:09:07am |
re: #1201 BlueCanuck
True North STRONG and Free!
/please get that part right. ;)
I thought it was "Sparse and Free"
(runs away giggling...)
| 1232 |
avanti Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:09:08am |
BBL, my friend found a yellow Cobalt, and she wants me to go with her to walk through the CFC deal.
| 1233 |
ArchangelMichael Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:09:13am |
re: #1203 drcordell
You can keep blathering your supply-side economics nonsense, but the economic data doesn't lie.
Sorry but... LOL WUT?!?
Did you take economics at a Uni in East Germany before 89?
| 1234 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:09:22am |
The spin machine at WaPo is spinning faster than Dinnerjacket's centrifuges:
Obama's Poll Numbers Don't Add Up to Whole Story
There are several new polls out over the past 24 hours that show more problems for President Obama. The trend lines are consistent: declining support for his health-care plan, rising worries about the deficit and slippage in his approval ratings. But what if the polls are wrong?
Not wrong in the sense that they have incorrectly charted a downward slope for the president after six months in office, but wrong in the sense that they don't entirely capture the dynamic of this moment in the Obama presidency.
LOL
| 1235 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:09:27am |
re: #1227 Killgore Trout
That's some serious crowd control.
I have a three year old daughter. I figure when she gets old enough to be interested in boys I will park that in my driveway and polish it every time a boy comes to visit.
| 1236 |
JohnnyReb Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:10:28am |
re: #1226 CommonCents
Clock is ticking on when the news breaks that a near-bankrupt dealer(s) submitted false claims to get the govt cash. After all, the govt is so good at tracking social security numbers, why would they get serious about VIN numbers?
I already brought that up this AM and got told by some that was impossible and I did not know what I was talking about. I quit wasting my time trying to say the program is rife with fraud.
| 1237 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:10:43am |
re: #1216 jvic
Clinton was under investigation for some very serious charges...Lewinski was a byproduct
| 1238 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:10:57am |
re: #1219 avanti
Heh. That kind of stuff is why I'm always surprised that people fuck with those motorcades. The Libs used to try to arrest Cheney for war crimes. Even that guy who threw the shoe at Bush came within nano-seconds of being very dead. People think they're playing games and seem to forget what serious danger they're in.
| 1239 |
jcm Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:11:15am |
re: #1191 Miss Trixie
Question(s) for techie-lizards:
This week when I fired up my machine and clicked on my browser to load, all my tabs would not connect. I called my ISP provided who said the my machine's "not fnding the network card" and to go to their store to install a device to surf wirelessly or call someone from a "Geek Squad".
I'm online now because I played around with the internal wireless device and although it's not as secure as a cable, nevertheless here I am. My question(s): what is a network card? Am I safe surfing the way I am? Will surfing as I am cause my ISP to charge me more or are they even aware of it?
My thanks in advance.
Network Interface Card (NIC) is the circuits that allow the computer to "talk" on networks. Depending on computer it may be a separat card plugged in internally or a subset of circuits on the main motherboard.
You said not "all your tabs" loaded, if some loaded or you can get to some web sites, you network card is fine.
You may have some filtering set or some other software issue, it may also be your ISP. To be safe using wireless set up encryption, use your OSes help menu to for setting up on you machine, and MAC addressing filtering, that will be in the instructions for your wireless router / modem.
| 1240 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:11:36am |
re: #1215 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
The tax cuts worked great. Now if only someone had managed to control the Dems push on bad mortgage practices.
I remember that things were going quite well until the Dems took Congress.
| 1241 |
CommonCents Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:11:48am |
re: #1234 NJDhockeyfan
they don't entirely capture the dynamic of this moment in the Obama presidency.
Like what? Buyer's remorse?
| 1242 |
Kronocide Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:11:48am |
re: #1143 drcordell
Uh. No. Did you not notice what happened when the last round of Bush stimulus checks were distributed to the public? They were saved. Used to pay mortgages that were past due. Used to pay off credit card bills. Put in savings accounts for later. During a recession people don't run out to buy a new iPod. They become thrifty.
No, I didn't notice. But it does seem that the people who needed it the most (who are less responsible with their money) got the most stimulus. Just like this time around. And you call that 'thrify?' You give people more money and they learn to be more responsible with it?
Do you have any support to what you're saying?
| 1243 |
BlueCanuck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:11:52am |
re: #1228 Shug
I love my Canadian friends.
except maybe for George Strombolopolous
Well, he's funny some of the time. What do you expect from Communist Broadcasting Collective?
| 1244 |
drcordell Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:12:08am |
re: #1225 JohnnyReb
And increasing tax rates on the top 1% of tax payers is going to help the economy how exactly? And is won't stop at $250K either. Everyone over about $45K are going to have a tax increase when the Bush tax cuts expire at the end of this year.
$45k? Where did you get that number? You are missing the forest for the trees buddy. The "tax cut" that anyone making under $500k a year got was roughly $500 dollars. The tax cut for the upper income brackets was an average of $55,000 dollars. You're being played for a fool by the richest 1%. They're throwing you a $500 bone to distract you from the wheelbarrow of cash they're walking off with in the background.
| 1245 |
avanti Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:12:21am |
re: #1230 drcordell
The guy called me a sock-puppet, and I dropped an F-bomb. It was in poor taste, but hardly outrageous.
Dropping the F bomb, is a no-no if you are a leftie, you need to be extra polite and keep your temper.
| 1246 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:12:30am |
re: #1236 JohnnyReb
I already brought that up this AM and got told by some that was impossible and I did not know what I was talking about. I quit wasting my time trying to say the program is rife with fraud.
Anything is possible with the government. There was a report on the news that a couple of people got arrested here for getting over $17,000 in Katrina relief money... I live in CT.
| 1248 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:13:20am |
re: #1237 albusteve
Clinton was under investigation for some very serious charges...Lewinski was a byproduct
And here I thought she was a slut.
| 1249 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:13:30am |
re: #1245 avanti
Dropping the F bomb, is a no-no if you are a leftie, you need to be extra polite and keep your temper.
Bwaaahaaahaaahaaahaaahaaa
*breathe*
Bwaaahaaahaaahaaa.
| 1250 |
CynicalConservative Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:13:54am |
| 1251 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:14:03am |
re: #1221 drcordell
You think it's a bunch of poor people that own stock in Goldman Sachs and the other investment banks?
Poor people? Not so much, although it depends on what you mean by "poor." But tens of millions of middle class folks held interests in GS and other financial institutions in their 401k portfolios. Painting shareholders as only consisting of "the rich" is specious.
| 1252 |
The Left Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:14:50am |
re: #1197 VioletTiger
In what way are they biased and flawed?
A few ways. Again, you have to evaluate on a poll-by-poll basis, but here are the flaws to look for, and ones that Rasmussen repeatedly has:
Sample selection: they poll 'likely voters', not all voters, and they define 'likely' in such a way that it excludes people who missed the last presidential election vote, or for whom that was their first vote. This automatically excludes a lot of people, and the people excluded tilts the sample selection to the GOP (because Obama had such an overwhelming edge with young voters and first time voters). This is also why all Rasmussen polls will show Obama approval trending lower than other polls.
Methodology: The questions asked and the framing of the questions. Time after time in a Rasmussen poll the questions are slanted in such a way as to produce results that will accord with GOP positions. This isn't going to apply to every Rasmussen poll, the way the first objection does, which is why each Rasmussen poll needs to be evaluated on an individual basis. Unfortunately it applies to far too many of them.
I've just learned over time that they're untrustworthy because these errors keep popping up.
| 1253 |
Lincolntf Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:14:54am |
re: #1234 NJDhockeyfan
Polls that are accurate but "don't accurately capture the dynamic" of the President?
Good Lord, don't these people in the MSM know that someday we're going to be able to look back at their work during the Obama era and compare it to other eras? How on earth are they ever going to justify the intellectual double standard that they've subscribed to?
Next time someone calls the WaPo a "reliable source" I'm gonna hurl.
| 1254 |
Charpete67 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:15:00am |
re: #1215 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
The tax cuts worked great. Now if only someone had managed to control the Dems push on bad mortgage practices.
you nailed it...people who try to hang the bad economy on Bush's tax cuts have been watching too much Katie Couric.
| 1255 |
JHW Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:15:09am |
Wiki lists 203 sovereign nations in the world, and as much as I like some of them, there's not one I'd rather have as a neighbor than Canada.
| 1256 |
CommonCents Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:15:15am |
re: #1236 JohnnyReb
I already brought that up this AM and got told by some that was impossible and I did not know what I was talking about. I quit wasting my time trying to say the program is rife with fraud.
What government program hasn't had any fraud?
| 1257 |
BlueCanuck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:15:47am |
re: #1230 drcordell
Yes I may have danced around that. From what I have seen everytime you show up you attack, attack, attack. If you are not one, I will apologize. I also recommend "How to Win Friends and Influence People". It may do you wonders with your debates.
| 1258 |
lawhawk Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:15:48am |
re: #1221 drcordell
You're not getting it. The bailout was to print funny money to cover the TARP. It is a deficit that someone has to repay - and there's no one who can do so. They papered over the mess.
If you think I'm shilling for the rich, you're absolutely wrong. I'm posting exactly what the situation calls for - fairness, and what Obama and the left is nothing more than generational theft that will never be repaid, but which will saddle future generations to the tune of trillions in debt. We have to pay hundreds of billions in interest on that debt - money that could actually go to real programs, but instead goes to paying off the crap sandwich that we got from Congress and the Administration.
States try to do that, and they're now facing multibillion dollar deficits and are still increasing spending (NY increased spending year over year by 5-6% and now faces a $2.1 billion deficit in the new fiscal year). Who's going to pay that? The rich will move, leaving those who remain to pay for it. That would be the poor - the very folks who can't move and relocate to lower tax burden states.
When you have a declining tax base, those who are left are forced to shoulder a higher tax load - and what you find is that those who are left can't afford it either. So you either have massive deficits, or you are forced to raise taxes in ways that obscure the tax hikes - like increasing sales taxes and fees to hit out of staters, but which only results in a fraction of the revenues hoped for.
| 1259 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:15:51am |
| 1260 |
kansas Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:15:55am |
re: #1240 VioletTiger
I remember that things were going quite well until the Dems took Congress.
Ding ding ding ding. We have a winner. Graph it all and it all goes to hell after the Dems took over. You would think the Messiah would at least stop the bleeding, but no, it's Smoot Hawley all over again.
And as for cash for clunkers, how's the government running that one? Wait till it's your health.
| 1261 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:16:05am |
re: #1245 avanti
Dropping the F bomb, is a no-no if you are a leftie, you need to be extra polite and keep your temper.
man are you stupid...amusing tho, conveniently leaving out all the facts as usual
| 1262 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:16:15am |
re: #1245 avanti
Dropping the F bomb, is a no-no if you are a leftie, you need to be extra polite and keep your temper.
Um, no. He called Blue a FUCKING CANADIAN. A bit different. No reason for that.
| 1263 |
MandyManners Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:16:24am |
re: #1237 albusteve
Clinton was under investigation for some very serious charges...Lewinski
was agot some byproduct on her navy blue Gap dress.
| 1264 |
Kronocide Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:16:49am |
re: #1221 drcordell
Haven't you been paying attention? We did bail that group out. Where do you think the trillions of dollars of TARP money went? You think it's a bunch of poor people that own stock in Goldman Sachs and the other investment banks? For your sake I sure hope you are fabulously wealthy, because if not you are simply shilling for people that could give a rat's ass if you die in the gutter.
Funny, the 'we' that bailed them out was mostly the left. Of course, not all stockholders are 'the wealthy.' If you have a 401k (which is most of us, rich and poor) then you probably own GS stocks.
Your contempt for people other than yourself (in this case, the wealthy) is just gushing out now. You're an easy target for most politicians because of this.
| 1265 |
Honorary Yooper Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:17:16am |
re: #1203 drcordell
Yeah, BlueCanuck is right, you do sound familar. Whose sock puppet are you, anyway?
drcordell
Karma: -432
Registered since: May 12, 2009 at 10:58 am
(Logged in)No. of comments posted: 274
No. of links posted: 0
BTW, here's his website: Talking Points Memo
And a bit about them:
About TPM Media
Talking Points Memo is the flagship blog of TPM Media LLC, which also publishes TPMmuckraker, TPMDC and TPMCafe.Josh Marshall began publishing Talking Points Memo in November 2000, during the Florida recount. TPM launched its second site, TPMCafe.com, in 2005 and TPMuckraker.com and TPM Election Central in 2006.
TPM Media is headquartered in New York City and has two staff reporter-bloggers reporting from Washington, DC.
So, "drcordell", do you just contribue to TPM, or are you one of their staff bloggers?
| 1266 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:17:17am |
re: #1245 avanti
Dropping the F bomb, is a no-no if you are a leftie, you need to be extra polite and keep your temper.
One needs to be polite and keep one's temper if one is a righty, as well!
| 1267 |
MandyManners Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:17:37am |
re: #1245 avanti
Dropping the F bomb, is a no-no if you are a leftie, you need to be extra polite and keep your temper.
THAT'S NOT THE FUCKING POINT.
| 1269 |
Charpete67 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:17:39am |
re: #1263 MandyManners
if not for that "residue", the MSM would be calling the whole affair a witch hunt by a bunch of right wing loonies.
| 1270 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:17:59am |
re: #1245 avanti
Dropping the F bomb, is a no-no if you are a leftie, you need to be extra polite and keep your temper.
You're lonely, aren't you?
| 1271 |
drcordell Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:18:02am |
re: #1242 BigPapa
No, I didn't notice. But it does seem that the people who needed it the most (who are less responsible with their money) got the most stimulus. Just like this time around. And you call that 'thrify?' You give people more money and they learn to be more responsible with it?
Do you have any support to what you're saying?
I'll drop the links in below. I'm not saying that it's necessarily a bad thing that the "stimulus" checks people got at the beginning of the recession were used to pay off debts. In the grander scheme of things America needs to increase its savings rate. But in the context of spurring an economic recovery in the short-term, saving does nothing. Consumer spending is the only thing that drives our economy right now, and a dollar saved is not a boost.
| 1273 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:18:15am |
| 1274 |
MandyManners Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:18:29am |
| 1275 |
bloodnok Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:18:31am |
re: #1266 reine.de.tout
One needs to be polite and keep one's temper if one is a righty, as well!
Spoken by a true expert on the subject. I hope you are well today!
| 1276 |
jcm Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:18:48am |
re: #1258 lawhawk
Upding, but you're talking to a wall.
And I think a wall has a better chance of understanding.
| 1277 |
LGoPs Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:18:50am |
re: #1212 Walter L. Newton
Hey folks, please ignore this person. Support your fellow Lizards. Did you read what he posted about BlueCannuck?
GAZE.
Agreed. Besides, arguing with it is futile.
Like Newt in Aliens said "It won't make any difference"
| 1278 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:19:20am |
re: #1266 reine.de.tout
One needs to be polite and keep one's temper if one is a righty, as well!
I have some lefty friends.
Two words can turn any one of them into an absolute raving fit. Cursing that would make a sailor blush. It's sad.
You know those 2 words.
| 1279 |
Miss Trixie Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:19:39am |
| 1280 |
Lincolntf Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:19:39am |
re: #1245 avanti
Yeah. No conservatives ever get flak (or banned) for what they say here. Only you poor Lefties. Must be very difficult to be you.
| 1282 |
BlueCanuck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:20:03am |
re: #1271 drcordell
One way to increase a households savings rate is by reducing it's debt load. The less you spend on bills and loans eventually the more you will be able to save. So yes paying down bills is a very thrifty practice.
| 1283 |
Shug Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:20:15am |
re: #1278 SasquatchOnSteroids
I have some lefty friends.
Two words can turn any one of them into an absolute raving fit. Cursing that would make a sailor blush. It's sad.
You know those 2 words.
"You're paying"
heh heh.
all my lefty friends are massive cheapskates
| 1284 |
JohnnyReb Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:20:29am |
re: #1246 Ford_Prefect
Anything is possible with the government. There was a report on the news that a couple of people got arrested here for getting over $17,000 in Katrina relief money... I live in CT.
It seems here in SE CT there has been a rise in crimes of fraud and the like since the two casinos came in and got going about 15 years ago. People just don't understand that most government programs that dole out money have a tremendous fraud rate and the perps rarely get caught. Just look at medicare fraud, it is out of control and by some estimates 15-20% of the total program.
| 1285 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:20:45am |
| 1287 |
drcordell Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:21:45am |
re: #1265 Honorary Yooper
I read TPM, because it's a good source of political news. I guess they would be considered "liberal" but quite frankly what news organization don't you consider to be "biased"? The Washington Post has Krauthammer, Bolton, Frum and Kristol on their op-ed page and somehow it's still considered a "leftist rag."
Talkingpointsmemo goes after anyone who is deserving of scrutiny, R or D. They were one of the first sites to break the Jackson (D - LA) corruption case if I recall. If you haven't had a chance to check them out I recommend you do so.
| 1288 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:21:57am |
re: #1230 drcordell
The guy called me a sock-puppet, and I dropped an F-bomb. It was in poor taste, but hardly outrageous.
What's outrageous is your entire demeanor. You don't come here to discuss - you come here, it appears, for the sole purpose of attacking and showing your utter contempt for anybody who doesn't properly recognize what you obviously think is your superior brilliance and insight.
| 1289 |
LGoPs Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:22:00am |
| 1290 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:22:02am |
re: #1284 JohnnyReb
It seems here in SE CT there has been a rise in crimes of fraud and the like since the two casinos came in and got going about 15 years ago. People just don't understand that most government programs that dole out money have a tremendous fraud rate and the perps rarely get caught. Just look at medicare fraud, it is out of control and by some estimates 15-20% of the total program.
Just wait until ObamaCare passes.
| 1291 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:22:16am |
re: #1238 Killgore Trout
Heh. That kind of stuff is why I'm always surprised that people fuck with those motorcades. The Libs used to try to arrest Cheney for war crimes. Even that guy who threw the shoe at Bush came within nano-seconds of being very dead. People think they're playing games and seem to forget what serious danger they're in.
Clinton was a total ass when it came to security. During his reelection campaign, he flew into Detroit - twice - at the height of rush hour to give a short speech downtown. AF1 landed at Metro Airport, and the Secret Service closed all of Interstate 94 from the airport to to the stage - a major traffic artery through the city, shut down in both directions over a thirty mile length or more. He did the same things during the following midterms. All on the spur of the moment - word of the closings wasn't released until a half-hour before traffic started being rerouted, and rush hour was already beginning to get underway.
On other occasions, when there was more advance notice of his visits was given, he demanded that every manhole cover on his route be tack-welded shut. He then changed the route at the last minute, making the same demand for the new route. I'm pretty sure the DPW still has to break welds when accessing come of those egresses.
Asshole.
| 1292 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:22:18am |
re: #1252 iceweasel
A few ways. Again, you have to evaluate on a poll-by-poll basis, but here are the flaws to look for, and ones that Rasmussen repeatedly has:
Sample selection: they poll 'likely voters', not all voters, and they define 'likely' in such a way that it excludes people who missed the last presidential election vote, or for whom that was their first vote. This automatically excludes a lot of people, and the people excluded tilts the sample selection to the GOP (because Obama had such an overwhelming edge with young voters and first time voters). This is also why all Rasmussen polls will show Obama approval trending lower than other polls.
Methodology: The questions asked and the framing of the questions. Time after time in a Rasmussen poll the questions are slanted in such a way as to produce results that will accord with GOP positions. This isn't going to apply to every Rasmussen poll, the way the first objection does, which is why each Rasmussen poll needs to be evaluated on an individual basis. Unfortunately it applies to far too many of them.
I've just learned over time that they're untrustworthy because these errors keep popping up.
I think sampling likely voters makes the most sense. They are a more relevant slice of the population.
As for the methodology, every pollster could be said to be guilty of the same thing, especially the left leaning polls associated with media outlets.
Overall, I think the trends matter most at this point in time.
| 1293 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:22:22am |
| 1294 |
jmac1492 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:22:37am |
re: #1252 iceweasel
Ice, that wasn't the question. Can you point to a Rasmussen poll, and/or an analysis of one, that shows them making the errors I learned about in high school statistics?
| 1295 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:22:55am |
| 1296 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:23:06am |
re: #1288 reine.de.tout
What's outrageous is your entire demeanor. You don't come here to discuss - you come here, it appears, for the sole purpose of attacking and showing your utter contempt for anybody who doesn't properly recognize what you obviously think is your superior brilliance and insight.
Cognito on steroids
| 1297 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:23:06am |
re: #1278 SasquatchOnSteroids
I have some lefty friends.
Two words can turn any one of them into an absolute raving fit. Cursing that would make a sailor blush. It's sad.
You know those 2 words.
You're wrong?
| 1298 |
calcajun Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:23:07am |
re: #1160 Charpete67
If not, there's plenty of volunteers here./
| 1299 |
MandyManners Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:23:12am |
It's taking me 45 seconds to ding and who knows how long it'll take me to post this. bbl
| 1300 |
jcm Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:23:17am |
re: #1288 reine.de.tout
What's outrageous is your entire demeanor. You don't come here to discuss - you come here, it appears, for the sole purpose of attacking and showing your utter contempt for anybody who doesn't properly recognize what you obviously think is your superior brilliance and insight.
I think we might be accused of testosterone poisoning next.
;-P
| 1301 |
Kronocide Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:23:38am |
re: #1245 avanti
Dropping the F bomb, is a no-no if you are a leftie, you need to be extra polite and keep your temper.
That's fallacy. Being an asshole is a no-no if you're a lefty or a rightie. That is the point.
The retribution usually comes quicker here if you're a lefty, but that's after the fact.
| 1302 |
drcordell Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:23:45am |
re: #1282 BlueCanuck
One way to increase a households savings rate is by reducing it's debt load. The less you spend on bills and loans eventually the more you will be able to save. So yes paying down bills is a very thrifty practice.
Agreed. America currently has a negative savings rate, which is completely unsustainable. But the point of any "stimulus" package is to purposely replace demand that has fallen out of the economy due to the recession. Cutting checks that are saved by 60% of the people who receive them does not accomplish this goal. Doesn't mean it's not an overall good thing though.
| 1303 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:24:01am |
re: #1275 bloodnok
Spoken by a true expert on the subject. I hope you are well today!
Yes, thank you! I'm doing well, enjoying Dr.Cordell here.
| 1304 |
LGoPs Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:24:02am |
| 1305 |
drcordell Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:24:05am |
re: #1295 SasquatchOnSteroids
DING !
Vicious hatred.
Sarah Palin is an idiot. If you can't see that, I feel sorry for you.
| 1306 |
pingjockey Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:24:15am |
re: #1293 SasquatchOnSteroids
I figured Dark Lord Cheney would set them off more than Sarah Palin.
| 1307 |
kansas Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:24:21am |
re: #1262 Cannadian Club Akbar
Um, no. He called Blue a FUCKING CANADIAN. A bit different. No reason for that.
I believe it was Canadian Fuck.
| 1308 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:24:33am |
re: #1305 drcordell
Sarah Palin is an idiot. If you can't see that, I feel sorry for you.
See ? heh.
| 1309 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:24:36am |
re: #1288 reine.de.tout
What's outrageous is your entire demeanor. You don't come here to discuss - you come here, it appears, for the sole purpose of attacking and showing your utter contempt for anybody who doesn't properly recognize what you obviously think is your superior brilliance and insight.
Wow, "superior brilliance." So that's what it is. I'm really, really stupid. I just thought he was being a jerk?
| 1310 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:25:11am |
re: #1252 iceweasel
A few ways. Again, you have to evaluate on a poll-by-poll basis, but here are the flaws to look for, and ones that Rasmussen repeatedly has:
Sample selection: they poll 'likely voters', not all voters, and they define 'likely' in such a way that it excludes people who missed the last presidential election vote, or for whom that was their first vote. This automatically excludes a lot of people, and the people excluded tilts the sample selection to the GOP (because Obama had such an overwhelming edge with young voters and first time voters). This is also why all Rasmussen polls will show Obama approval trending lower than other polls.
Methodology: The questions asked and the framing of the questions. Time after time in a Rasmussen poll the questions are slanted in such a way as to produce results that will accord with GOP positions. This isn't going to apply to every Rasmussen poll, the way the first objection does, which is why each Rasmussen poll needs to be evaluated on an individual basis. Unfortunately it applies to far too many of them.
I've just learned over time that they're untrustworthy because these errors keep popping up.
So, has there ever been a statistical comparison conducted with other polls? Does Rasmussen show up as an outlier? If their methodology is so badly flawed, it ought to be readily apparent.
| 1311 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:25:11am |
re: #1266 reine.de.tout
One needs to be polite and keep one's temper if one is a righty, as well!
There is a huge difference between dropping an eff bomb and calling someone an effing something. One is a personal attack and so not cool.
| 1312 |
pingjockey Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:25:18am |
re: #1291 SixDegrees
The manhole cover thing is standard Secret Service procedure for the last 40 years.
| 1313 |
kansas Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:25:20am |
re: #1305 drcordell
Sarah Palin is an idiot. If you can't see that, I feel sorry for you.
I don't see her posting drooling ranting screeds here. You, on the other hand...
| 1314 |
LGoPs Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:25:29am |
| 1316 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:25:32am |
re: #1300 jcm
I think we might be accused of testosterone poisoning next.
;-P
Yeah, I'm waiting for it.
| 1317 |
lawhawk Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:25:49am |
re: #1244 drcordell
The Bush tax cuts expire after 2010. That means that the tax rates revert to their pre-Bush levels - a massive across the board tax hike.
For example, in 2000 if you were single making $45,000, you would pay tax at the 28% bracket. In 2009, you were in the 25% bracket.
If you made $65,000 in 2000, you were in the 31% bracket. In 2009, that would be the 25% bracket. Savings? $3,900
If you made $30,000 in 2000, you were in the 28% bracket. In 2009, that would be the 15% bracket. Savings? $3,900 (a much higher percentage of the person's income).
Talk all you like about the Bush tax cuts, but that meant that those who made $30,000 saw a real break and savings - which would vanish the moment those rates revert.
Mind you, none of the aforementioned takes into account credits and deductions - just absolute dollars based on the rate and the income.
| 1318 |
Sheila Broflovski Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:25:59am |
re: #1305 drcordell
Sarah Palin is an idiot. If you can't see that, I feel sorry for you.
Sarah Palin is still smarter than you.
| 1319 |
Charpete67 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:26:01am |
re: #1279 Miss Trixie
Upschwingading! :D
We Canucksicles have to stick together. :)
btw...I'm not Canadian...not that there's anything wrong with that...
| 1321 |
Honorary Yooper Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:26:06am |
re: #1287 drcordell
Never said a damn word about them being liberal or conservative in my #1265. I only pointed out the website you link to as well as your user profile. Obviously I hit a nerve because you decided to put words in my mouth.
So, whose sock are you?
| 1322 |
albusteve Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:26:20am |
re: #1312 pingjockey
The manhole cover thing is standard Secret Service procedure for the last 40 years.
I did not know that...interesting
| 1323 |
jcm Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:26:26am |
re: #1291 SixDegrees
In defense of USSS. Those measures are the USSS's decision and it's pretty much done every time a POTUS comes to town. They do the same thing in Seattle, and they've done it for everyone since Reagan. It's all SOP.
| 1325 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:26:29am |
re: #1291 SixDegrees
Clinton was a total ass when it came to security. During his reelection campaign, he flew into Detroit - twice - at the height of rush hour to give a short speech downtown. AF1 landed at Metro Airport, and the Secret Service closed all of Interstate 94 from the airport to to the stage - a major traffic artery through the city, shut down in both directions over a thirty mile length or more. He did the same things during the following midterms. All on the spur of the moment - word of the closings wasn't released until a half-hour before traffic started being rerouted, and rush hour was already beginning to get underway.
On other occasions, when there was more advance notice of his visits was given, he demanded that every manhole cover on his route be tack-welded shut. He then changed the route at the last minute, making the same demand for the new route. I'm pretty sure the DPW still has to break welds when accessing come of those egresses.
Asshole.
Just a note, KT: my closing line here is directed at Clinton, not you.
| 1326 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:26:54am |
Well, I gotta go. It has been fun. Hopefully it won't be so long before my next visit.
Later Lizards!
| 1327 |
Syrah Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:27:12am |
re: #1252 iceweasel
A few ways. Again, you have to evaluate on a poll-by-poll basis, but here are the flaws to look for, and ones that Rasmussen repeatedly has:
Sample selection: they poll 'likely voters', not all voters, and they define 'likely' in such a way that it excludes people who missed the last presidential election vote, or for whom that was their first vote. This automatically excludes a lot of people, and the people excluded tilts the sample selection to the GOP (because Obama had such an overwhelming edge with young voters and first time voters). This is also why all Rasmussen polls will show Obama approval trending lower than other polls.
Methodology: The questions asked and the framing of the questions. Time after time in a Rasmussen poll the questions are slanted in such a way as to produce results that will accord with GOP positions. This isn't going to apply to every Rasmussen poll, the way the first objection does, which is why each Rasmussen poll needs to be evaluated on an individual basis. Unfortunately it applies to far too many of them.
I've just learned over time that they're untrustworthy because these errors keep popping up.
Iceweasel,
Where did you get this?
| 1328 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:27:18am |
re: #1306 pingjockey
I figured Dark Lord Cheney would set them off more than Sarah Palin.
Close, but Sarah's not pedigreed, even if it's Cheney, he's still an insider.
Not as bad as the stuff they said about Palin.
Lost one "friend" over him calling her something I won't repeat.
Nasty MoFo.
| 1329 |
pingjockey Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:27:18am |
re: #1305 drcordell
Mwahahahaha and Nancy Pelousi is the 2nd coming of Albert Einstein!
| 1330 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:27:19am |
re: #1309 Walter L. Newton
Wow, "superior brilliance." So that's what it is. I'm really, really stupid. I just thought he was being a jerk?
Yes, Walter, that's the point. We are all stupid. He//she is brilliant, with an IQ of 167, I would be willing to bet.
| 1331 |
kansas Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:27:21am |
re: #1326 Ford_Prefect
Well, I gotta go. It has been fun. Hopefully it won't be so long before my next visit.
Later Lizards!
Hey, take the doctor with you.
| 1332 |
Kronocide Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:27:30am |
re: #1305 drcordell
Sarah Palin is an idiot. If you can't see that, I feel sorry for you.
I feel sorry for you.
| 1333 |
Lincolntf Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:27:43am |
re: #1305 drcordell
She's smart enough to know that KOS is no source for accurate information. Can't say the same for you.
| 1334 |
SFGoth Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:27:50am |
re: #1244 drcordell
$45k? Where did you get that number? You are missing the forest for the trees buddy. The "tax cut" that anyone making under $500k a year got was roughly $500 dollars. The tax cut for the upper income brackets was an average of $55,000 dollars. You're being played for a fool by the richest 1%. They're throwing you a $500 bone to distract you from the wheelbarrow of cash they're walking off with in the background.
You obviously didn't read what I posted earlier. What do you think the rich do with the cash they walk off with? They buy stuff (you know, stuff that people get paid to make and sell -- who pays for it? The rich) and they invest (so that businesses can expand).
Here's how you explain trickle down economics. A very liberal friend said recently that the buying power of the $ was much greater in the 50's. So I asked him what kind of computer and plasma tv you got for your $ back then. Chirp chirp. Then I explained: look, when fancy gadgets first hit the market and cost $10,000, who buys them? The middle class? No. The rich. If these things don't get bought, providing seed $ for later generation models, they'll never get built in the first place. In the mid-90's, the "sweet spot" for a home computer package was $3,000. It's like $1,000 now, and the power is light years beyond 1995. Trickle down works, just not in one campaign cycle. Has there ever been a 10 year period since WWII ended where the standard of living was worse at the end of the period? Maybe 1981 when Carter finally left, but even then, compare 1981 to 1971. I can't imagine there weren't any inventions, discoveries, or improvements over those 10 years. Push button phones?
| 1335 |
The Left Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:28:16am |
re: #1216 jvic
Imagine the Republican race in 2012 as Palin, Paul and Huckabee debate the nuances of nirtherism--and gang up on whoever ventures to utter a sane sentence.
***
In 1994 Bill Clinton was considered all but unreelectable. He rethought his Administration from the ground up and wound up with an objectively successful Presidency notwithstanding how he disgraced the office.
.
You're so right. I hope you're wrong about how the Republican
race goes in 2012, but sadly it looks like we're on track for that prediction to come true. At least, I don't see sanity emerging anytime soon.
Also recall that part of Clinton's problem is 1994 was...his own health care debacle. Didn't matter in the end though, because the Republican crazy didn't hurt him. It probably even helped him, to the extent that it damaged the view of Republicans for the public. And that's happening all over again.
| 1336 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:29:02am |
| 1337 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:29:05am |
re: #1311 VioletTiger
There is a huge difference between dropping an eff bomb and calling someone an effing something. One is a personal attack and so not cool.
absolutely.
| 1338 |
Miss Trixie Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:29:19am |
{JCM} Thanks so much for your useful suggestions, luv - I appreciate it.
Oh, and drcordell? STFU and STFD.
That is all.
| 1340 |
Shug Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:29:23am |
| 1341 |
Gang of One Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:29:28am |
re: #1146 Van Helsing
Don't you heels ever stop?
A stiletto through the ribs will put an end to this.
| 1342 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:29:37am |
| 1343 |
kansas Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:29:48am |
| 1344 |
pingjockey Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:30:01am |
re: #1328 SasquatchOnSteroids
That woman does have the knack for giving the left the screaming meemies! Yaaay!
| 1345 |
Kragar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:30:35am |
re: #1336 Ford_Prefect
If he's a doctor I'm a vermicious kanid.
It mis-spelled dicktor. Side effect from taking too much peniscillin.
| 1346 |
SteveC Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:30:37am |
re: #1262 Cannadian Club Akbar
Um, no. He called Blue a FUCKING CANADIAN. A bit different. No reason for that.
I'd like to be called a F'n American. The well has been dry, if you know what I mean.
/TMI?
| 1347 |
Ford_Prefect Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:30:49am |
re: #1343 kansas
I'm gonna have to look that up.
Willy Wonka. Not sure about the spelling.
OK. I really am outta here.
| 1348 |
Charpete67 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:30:51am |
re: #1305 drcordell
Sarah Palin is an idiot. If you can't see that, I feel sorry for you.
if she had kankles, you liberals would love her.
| 1349 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:30:59am |
| 1350 |
Creeping Eruption Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:31:00am |
| 1351 |
The Left Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:31:10am |
re: #1310 SixDegrees
So, has there ever been a statistical comparison conducted with other polls? Does Rasmussen show up as an outlier? If their methodology is so badly flawed, it ought to be readily apparent.
But it can't show up in a statistical comparison, because we're talking about their opinion polls.
The best way to evaluate them is to do so on an individual basis, and to do so by looking at the questions asked. Best of all it to compare them with another poll that has differing results, and look at the way the questions were presented in each. That's how you can detect the framing bias.
(BTW, other polls can also engage in framing bias as well, of course)
| 1352 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:31:22am |
re: #1312 pingjockey
The manhole cover thing is standard Secret Service procedure for the last 40 years.
It's never been done around here before or since that I've ever heard of. No one else seemed to think so, either, at the time.
0, of course, has famously stayed as far from Detroit as possible, so there's no point of comparison. The stench of Democratic corruption and incompetence hangs over the city like a huge, hot, wet fart; I guess he doesn't want to risk being tainted by it.
| 1354 |
jcm Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:31:32am |
re: #1338 Miss Trixie
{JCM} Thanks so much for your useful suggestions, luv - I appreciate it.
Oh, and drcordell? STFU and STFD.
That is all.
Nic is email blue... if you need more help!
We can get into details there if need be.
| 1355 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:32:01am |
Breaking:
Dodd has prostate cancer, prognosis good
Sen. Chris Dodd (D-Conn.) has been diagnosed with early stage prostate cancer, a condition that is not considered life-threatening, according to his staff.
Dodd's political adviser Jim Jordan emails me:
"The condition was caught extremely early; the procedure will be as routine as it can be; He’ll be down, out of commission for just two or three [weeks]; his health is otherwise superb; this in no way whatsoever affects his re-election plans."
Dodd spokeswoman Colleen Flanagan reported the same and says the procedure will be performed sometime in August and that Dodd discovered the cancer during a routine screening and has had "not symptoms whatsoever."
"It's something that's very common among men my age,'' said Dodd, who is 65 and the father of two young daughters told the Hartford Courant. "In fact, one in six men will be diagnosed with prostate cancer at some point during their life.''
He also said it will have minimum impact on his ability to craft Senate health care legislation. "As you have probably noticed, I'm working some long and hard hours lately,'' he said. "And that will continue."
Dodd will hold a 2 p.m. presser in Hartford to field questions.
Prostate cancer is one of the worst. I hope he recovers fully.
| 1357 |
doppelganglander Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:32:22am |
re: #1334 SFGoth
Has there ever been a 10 year period since WWII ended where the standard of living was worse at the end of the period? Maybe 1981 when Carter finally left, but even then, compare 1981 to 1971. I can't imagine there weren't any inventions, discoveries, or improvements over those 10 years. Push button phones?
Microwave ovens were invented in the 1960s but became ubiquitous in the '70s. Mr. Coffee, VCRs and Pong were also introduced in that decade. "Modern Marvels" has a great series of programs on the new technology of the '60s, '70s, '80s and '90s. But computers are the best example because of how they revolutionized every area of American life. How many of us here would not have the careers we now have were it not for computers? I know I wouldn't.
| 1358 |
MrSilverDragon Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:32:44am |
re: #1305 drcordell
If you can't see that, I feel sorry for you.
So you've gone from humble beginnings to governor of which state, now?
| 1359 |
pingjockey Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:33:00am |
re: #1352 SixDegrees
Heh. It(the manhole) thing is so folks can't get down there and plant explosives under the motorcade route.
| 1360 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:33:20am |
re: #1323 jcm
In defense of USSS. Those measures are the USSS's decision and it's pretty much done every time a POTUS comes to town. They do the same thing in Seattle, and they've done it for everyone since Reagan. It's all SOP.
Again, news to me. And shutting down one of the city's busiest freeways at the height of rush hour for a campaign speech (no tack welding required; not enough time on that impromptu stop) was certainly uncalled for.
| 1361 |
lawhawk Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:33:30am |
re: #1352 SixDegrees
They routinely seal manholes and deal with post office dropoff boxes in the NYC metro area for major events (Times Square on New Years), presidential routes and access around the UN during high profile. It's a pain, but they do it because security is paramount. We've gotten used to that kind of thing in NYC since we're dealing with the President quite frequently.
| 1362 |
Kragar Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:33:37am |
re: #1358 MrSilverDragon
So you've gone from humble beginnings to governor of which state, now?
Delusion
| 1363 |
redstateredneck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:33:44am |
re: #1248 Ford_Prefect
re: #1237 albusteve
Clinton was under investigation for some very serious charges...Lewinski was a byproduct
And here I thought she was a slut.
Hell, I thought the stain on the blue dress was the byproduct.
| 1364 |
jcm Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:34:15am |
re: #1358 MrSilverDragon
So you've gone from humble beginnings to governor of which state, now?
It has completely control over the basement in Mama's house.
| 1365 |
Kronocide Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:34:33am |
re: #1334 SFGoth
SFGoth,
That was very well said. I live that in my industry/profession: early adopters (hobbyists/wealthy) buying and trying the products, once refined and normalized, becoming mass produced with higher quality/consistency and lower prices.
Wealth has many virtues and benefits to us all even if some of us have none. If nobody was wealthy, it would detract from all of us.
| 1366 |
wahabicorridor Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:34:38am |
re: #1291 SixDegrees
he demanded that every manhole cover on his route be tack-welded shut. He then changed the route at the last minute, making the same demand for the new route.
I'm pretty sure those decisions are the sole purview of the Secret Service, not the president.
| 1367 |
The Left Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:34:41am |
re: #1327 Syrah
Iceweasel,
Where did you get this?
Lots of places. I'm not quoting anyone in particular. This is also based on my own observations of Rasmussen. If you're into polls, this is how to evaluate them.
If people are really interested, I could dig up critiques of individual Rasmussen polls that will explain how that individual poll is flawed, but as I said, evaluation always has to be done on an individual basis.
| 1369 |
Creeping Eruption Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:35:24am |
OT: Not only do I love my job, but I can sit at my desk and crank "Hot for Teacher" and no one gives a shit. Maybe it is because I can sit at my desk and crank "Hot for Teacher" and no one gives a shit that I love my job.
Happy Friday everyone.
| 1371 |
debutaunt Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:36:29am |
| 1372 |
Miss Trixie Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:36:47am |
re: #1319 Charpete67
btw...I'm not Canadian...not that there's anything wrong with that...
Smartypants!
Actually, it's not THAT bad living in the Great White North as we live in comfy, cool caves after our houses melt in the spring. :P
| 1373 |
VioletTiger Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:36:48am |
re: #1361 lawhawk
When Corzine dropped by the Peach Festival on Saturday he had secret service all around him. Never saw these guys so up close. Wires in their ears and hands neated folded in front of them, in suits in the sweltering air. Was more interesting that the gov, imo.
| 1374 |
Spider Mensch Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:36:58am |
re: #1364 jcm
It has completely control over the basement in Mama's house.
gee I hope so. I shudder at the thought this person is married and reproducing..good Lord, being married to that you probably have the battered spouse hotline on your speed dial.
| 1375 |
jcm Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:37:36am |
re: #1360 SixDegrees
Again, news to me. And shutting down one of the city's busiest freeways at the height of rush hour for a campaign speech (no tack welding required; not enough time on that impromptu stop) was certainly uncalled for.
Last time GWB came they shut down the freeways, Seattle to Bellevue you only have two bridges, shut down one. They often shut down two routes, to have an available alternate. Manhole covers tack welded, trash cans and newspaper boxes removed, observers on rooftops. Having POTUS visit is a major pain in the ass. The media seldom reports on all the measures taken, at the request of the USSS.
| 1376 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:37:42am |
re: #1368 buzzsawmonkey
I'm always fascinated by Snarly Liberals who affect to be outraged over people with large incomes making more money off a tax cut than the Worthy Poor or Worthy Lower Middle Class do.
Well, of course they do. If everybody pays, say, 10% less, the person making $500,000 is naturally going to clear more than the person making $50,000--because they make more.
Why am I supposed to be outraged that someone who is doing better than I am gets to keep more actual dollars, when they are merely getting the same percentage I am getting?
The outrage occurs because that percentage tax cut doesn't distribute the wealth properly. And because there are voters who don't understand what you just explained, and will vote for whichever politician promises them more of somebody else's success.
| 1377 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:37:50am |
re: #1359 pingjockey
Heh. It(the manhole) thing is so folks can't get down there and plant explosives under the motorcade route.
I'm aware of the reasoning. I guess. What's puzzling is that they weld the covers right along the route - the ones that the cavalcade actually drives over - but leaves those on the surrounding streets alone. They're all interconnected; are potential bombers too lazy to walk a block or two underground?
It strikes me as a public display of thoroughness that doesn't serve much of a purpose.
| 1378 |
Kronocide Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:38:05am |
re: #1368 buzzsawmonkey
That's the real Voodoo Economics. How do you use that level of reason and logic on people who have abject contempt for the wealthy? Shame on you for assuming they can think on that level! Bad Monkey!
| 1379 |
BlueCanuck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:38:06am |
Well this has been fun and all. BTW thanks for all the support everyone. Heading upstairs to the new thread.
| 1380 |
The Left Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:38:24am |
re: #1294 jmac1492
Ice, that wasn't the question. Can you point to a Rasmussen poll, and/or an analysis of one, that shows them making the errors I learned about in high school statistics?
Sorry, I haven't read everything in the thread, just saw this. Yes. Give me a few minutes and I'll get you a link.
(BTW, framing methodology may not have been likely to have been taught in a HS statistics class, and that's where the main errors are with RR)
| 1381 |
acwgusa Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:38:48am |
I have to admire the gall which Tim Pawlenty says Medicaid competes with private coverage. Medicaid is a payor of last resort. Really, really, last resort.
| 1382 |
jcm Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:38:52am |
Okay folks I gotta take some rich peoples money and convert it into a useful product.
It's called work!
| 1383 |
SFGoth Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:39:07am |
| 1384 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:39:11am |
re: #1373 VioletTiger
How do you tell Al Gore in a room full of Secret Service Agents?
Al's the stiff one.
| 1385 |
kansas Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:40:30am |
re: #1355 NJDhockeyfan
Breaking:
Dodd has prostate cancer, prognosis good
Prostate cancer is one of the worst. I hope he recovers fully.
At his age with early detection and his access to health care, he'll die of old age, provided he doesn't catch a ride with Ted Kennedy after a party.
| 1386 |
wahabicorridor Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:40:41am |
re: #1344 pingjockey
That woman does have the knack for giving the left the screaming meemies! Yaaay!
Hell, she gets under some conservatives' skins too, e.g. Peggy The Snotty Bitch Noonan
| 1387 |
apachegunner Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:41:34am |
re: #955 buzzsawmonkey
She was wearing a moo-moo? Are you calling her a cow?
no, he was saying she was wearing a cow!
| 1388 |
Russkilitlover Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:41:58am |
re: #1247 MandyManners
Oh, go piss up a rope.
Ah, the sublime brevity of Mandy. Saves a lot of thread space :D
| 1389 |
SixDegrees Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:42:12am |
re: #1361 lawhawk
They routinely seal manholes and deal with post office dropoff boxes in the NYC metro area for major events (Times Square on New Years), presidential routes and access around the UN during high profile. It's a pain, but they do it because security is paramount. We've gotten used to that kind of thing in NYC since we're dealing with the President quite frequently.
Interesting. But when Reagan spoke here during a campaign whistlestop, they didn't bother with any such measures. They just took weird routes - or in one case, employed a helicopter instead of a limo to fly him directly to his destination.
In any case, it was the Clinton stops that still stick out in everyone's minds around here.
| 1390 |
Charpete67 Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:42:33am |
re: #1384 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
...he likes men in uniform...
| 1391 |
redstateredneck Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:42:44am |
re: #1357 doppelganglander
Microwave ovens were invented in the 1960s but became ubiquitous in the '70s. Mr. Coffee, VCRs and Pong were also introduced in that decade. "Modern Marvels" has a great series of programs on the new technology of the '60s, '70s, '80s and '90s. But computers are the best example because of how they revolutionized every area of American life. How many of us here would not have the careers we now have were it not for computers? I know I wouldn't.
I'd still be keeping books in ledgers and typing with carbon paper.
No, thanks.
| 1392 |
SFGoth Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:43:23am |
The other way I've crushed liberals is on their canard that the spread between the rich and poor is too big and growing larger. However, that relies on a faulty assumption that the quality of life remains static, dependent solely on how much $ you have, rather than what your $ buys you. Would you rather be lower middle class today or filthy rich 250 years ago? Yeah, back then if you were filthy rich you'd be enjoying a whole lot of decolletage (;->) but get an infection? How about food on demand? Indoor plumbing? How about childbirth for you ladies? Yeah. It's not about the spread between rich and poor, it's the quality of life for the poor. Even the working poor today are in heaven compared to what things used to be. Even if you live in Alabama and only have a ceiling fan as opposed to central A/C, you're better off than the rich were back when.
| 1393 |
SFGoth Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:43:51am |
re: #1386 wahabicorridor
Hell, she gets under some conservatives' skins too, e.g. Peggy The Snotty Bitch Noonan
Anyone have any links to pix of her when she was younger? I got a feeling she was kinda cute.
| 1394 |
jvic Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:46:11am |
re: #1367 iceweasel
Lots of places. I'm not quoting anyone in particular. This is also based on my own observations of Rasmussen. If you're into polls, this is how to evaluate them.If people are really interested, I could dig up critiques of individual Rasmussen polls that will explain how that individual poll is flawed, but as I said, evaluation always has to be done on an individual basis.
Ice, I appreciate your offer, but it would take a smoking gun, or an extended series of subpar results, to change my positive impression of Rasmussen. Here is Rasmussen's 'About Us' page. Looks pretty good to me.
IMHO the Rasmussen issue not worth additional exertion by you or me at this time.
| 1395 |
The Left Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:53:52am |
re: #1394 jvic
Ice, I appreciate your offer, but it would take a smoking gun, or an extended series of subpar results, to change my positive impression of Rasmussen. Here is Rasmussen's 'About Us' page. Looks pretty good to me.
IMHO the Rasmussen issue not worth additional exertion by you or me at this time.
Fair enough; I'm warning you that there are a lot of smoking guns there. :)
As I said, they need to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis anyway, and I strongly suspect the thread would quickly devolve (not because of you). For every example of Rasmussen bias I post someone will post some other pollster entirely getting something wrong, as though that exonerates Rasmussen.
Better to discuss them on a case by case basis as it arises, IMO.
| 1396 |
Van Helsing Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:54:07am |
re: #1357 doppelganglander
Microwave ovens were invented in the 1960s but became ubiquitous in the '70s. Mr. Coffee, VCRs and Pong were also introduced in that decade. "Modern Marvels" has a great series of programs on the new technology of the '60s, '70s, '80s and '90s. But computers are the best example because of how they revolutionized every area of American life. How many of us here would not have the careers we now have were it not for computers? I know I wouldn't.
And the first generally available home unit was the Amana RadaRange for about $1000, IIRC.
Now, $75?
| 1397 |
Lee Coller Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:54:42am |
| 1398 |
Van Helsing Fri, Jul 31, 2009 9:57:08am |
re: #1368 buzzsawmonkey
I'm always fascinated by Snarly Liberals who affect to be outraged over people with large incomes making more money off a tax cut than the Worthy Poor or Worthy Lower Middle Class do.
Well, of course they do. If everybody pays, say, 10% less, the person making $500,000 is naturally going to clear more than the person making $50,000--because they make more.
Why am I supposed to be outraged that someone who is doing better than I am gets to keep more actual dollars, when they are merely getting the same percentage I am getting?
Because if you aren't outraged then you aren't helping the class struggle against The Man, man.
That's why.
| 1399 |
drcordell Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:16:57am |
re: #1333 Lincolntf
She's smart enough to know that KOS is no source for accurate information. Can't say the same for you.
Jesuchristo. It's not Kos... it's Research 2000. They are an independent polling firm. Go look at their accuracy in the 2008 elections, they were the most accurate.
| 1400 |
Syrah Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:19:32am |
re: #1367 iceweasel
Lots of places. I'm not quoting anyone in particular. This is also based on my own observations of Rasmussen. If you're into polls, this is how to evaluate them.
If people are really interested, I could dig up critiques of individual Rasmussen polls that will explain how that individual poll is flawed, but as I said, evaluation always has to be done on an individual basis.
There are some things that you need to keep in mind about polling.
1. Polling is not an exact science. Because the polls are written and conducted by humans, no poll will ever be perfect. It is just not possible.
While you can gleen some interesting and sometimes useful information from polling, they are all inherently flawed. All of them.
~
Here is the most import thing to help in understanding how polling companies work.
They are in the business of making money, not in influencing elections. This is true for all of the big houses, whether they are run by people who tend to vote Republican or tend to vote Democrat. The smaller houses can be a little quirky on this, but that is usually attributable to their small size, lack of experience, One-off errors, etc. All of these polling houses are betting their reputations and their future incomes on the accuracy and usability of their results. Faked results, or results that are grossly biased can destroy a polling house.
They won't knowingly do it.
But they are run by humans, so sometimes they screw up.
2. Polling is a very problematic predictor. A poll is a snapshot in time. It will reveal how a number of respondents answered a set of questions for a given time frame. They can be used to get a good guess as to how people will respond to the same set of questions on another day, or on how they will respond to set stimuli in the future, but each hour that passes from the close of the poll to the target event degrades the prediction validity. In simple terms, shit happens. What people may have thought in one moment may be affected or changed by something that they hear or experience in the next.
3. When it comes to elections, one of the most reliable populations is long term voters. Voters that vote reliably in the small off season elections are a solid bet to vote in the next big election.
New voters, especially young voters, are a terrible bet when it comes to banking on them voting in the next election. They have a long history with understandable reasons for being unreliable.
Of the two, long term voters will give you the best predictor of what will happen in a particular election.
Occasionally, you will have an election like the last one with Obama where the young and new will show up to the polls in larger numbers than they have in the past. These are outlier elections. They are not good for making changes to methodology. What happened in this last election is VERY unlikely to happen again in the next. You will see proof of this in the next congressional races. Barring some extraordinary event between now and the next congressional election, the turn out will be very low for the young and for those who voted for the first time in the last presidential election.
At this stage, in the run up to the next congressional election, any polling house that includes the new voters and the young voters in their results will have crap for numbers. That is a large part of the reason why they will make sure to let people know the population group that they are using, whether it is likely voters are registered voters, or something else. In their own community, they will know what the populations mean to a study. They will judge each others results with the polled population in mind.
Bottom line.
For pollsters, the accuracy of their poll is more important to them then whether or not a particular party or politician wins a given election.
| 1401 |
drcordell Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:19:46am |
re: #1358 MrSilverDragon
So you've gone from humble beginnings to governor of which state, now?
Ad hominem argument FTW! Since when does intelligence correlate with being elected to public office?
| 1402 |
drcordell Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:24:55am |
I really can't believe that Palin has rabid acolytes here at LGF. RedState sure. FreeRepublic most definitely. Ace of Spaces without a doubt. But here? Really? I would have thought that the sentiment would be that she's poisonous for the Conservative message.
| 1403 |
Syrah Fri, Jul 31, 2009 10:31:31am |
re: #1400 Syrah
I don't think that new or young voters made a dip-doodles worth of difference in the last presidential election anyway.
McCain was a terrible choice for the Republicans and he ran a shitty campaign.
After eight years of non-stop Bush-bashing in the media, the Republicans needed an A team Candidate and a near flawless campaign. They picked somebody from low down on the B list and ran a shitty campaign. That Tarp thing at the end, that was the killer. It wrote done on the McCain campaign.
| 1404 |
solomonpanting Fri, Jul 31, 2009 4:39:10pm |
re: #1244 drcordell
You're being played for a fool by the richest 1%. They're throwing you a $500 bone to distract you from the wheelbarrow of cash they're walking off with in the background.
You make it sound as though they're stealing. Wasn't it theirs to begin with?
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