This is going to cost the Republicans. There are just too many soundbites and statements to include in various political ads. The oil is still spilling and this could cost them dearly.

re: #1 Killgore Trout

This is going to cost the Republicans. There are just too many soundbites and statements to include in various political ads. The oil is still spilling and this could cost them dearly.

All they have to do is run an ad juxtaposing the drill baby drill cheers against pictures of the devastation in the gulf…

re: #1 Killgore Trout

This is going to cost the Republicans. There are just too many soundbites and statements to include in various political ads. The oil is still spilling and this could cost them dearly.

yeah it could… well of course they would have to be in a position of power to take the blame, but let me not harsh your mellow.

re: #2 PT Barnum

All they have to do is run an ad juxtaposing the drill baby drill cheers against pictures of the devastation in the gulf…

Yup. I’m wondering if this isn’t already playing into the Rubio/Crist poll results.

re: #4 freetoken

Yup. I’m wondering if this isn’t already playing into the Rubio/Crist poll results.

well maybe cause people are actually paying attention to more than sound bites? well that is just my theory…

“H.M.S. Douche”

/ROFL

re: #4 freetoken

Yup. I’m wondering if this isn’t already playing into the Rubio/Crist poll results.

Maybe, but more likely Dems are defecting to Crist from Meeks.

re: #5 brookly red

well maybe cause people are actually paying attention to more than sound bites? well that is just my theory…

That would be good, but since a lot of Rubio’s support seems to come from people incapable of understanding more complicated than soundbites, it’s probably more a matter of the independents not wanting any guanomaniacs in power.

In related news:

CalPERS loses big on BP stock

Since April 20, the 58 million BP shares owned by the California Public Employees’ Retirement System have plunged in value by $285 million, dropping from $586 million to $301 million, according to an analysis by Bloomberg News.

BP-related losses for all U.S. pension funds have totaled $1.4 billion as the value of BP stock tumbled 47%, Bloomberg data show.

As I said early on in this crisis, in the end we all will pay for it.

re: #8 PT Barnum

That would be good, but since a lot of Rubio’s support seems to come from people incapable of understanding more complicated than soundbites, it’s probably more a matter of the independents not wanting any guanomaniacs in power.

well yes of course all of these stupid people and their damned opinions… and worse than that they actually vote! There oughta be a law…

re: #9 freetoken

There are no winners in this thing. Besides the lawyers.

re: #9 freetoken

In related news:

CalPERS loses big on BP stock

As I said early on in this crisis, in the end we all will pay for it.

Obama’s fault.

/

re: #9 freetoken

In related news:

CalPERS loses big on BP stock

As I said early on in this crisis, in the end we all will pay for it.

Fixed benefit pensions and this. Ohhh Boy.

“The oil is under a mile of water and 2.4 miles of solid sedimentary earth. I’d say that God has done enough to prevent these kinds of oil spills.”

re: #9 freetoken

In related news:

CalPERS loses big on BP stock

As I said early on in this crisis, in the end we all will pay for it.

As I’ve mentioned before, British pensioners are particularly had hit as about $1 in $6 of their income came from BP dividends, which of course also means they owned the stock and take another big hit is share price.

The losses to investors, both UK and US are above $150 billion so far.

re: #13 Rightwingconspirator

Fixed benefit pensions and this. Ohhh Boy.

oh did we say fixed… no we meant fixed sorry about that now please move on, next!

re: #15 Bagua

As I’ve mentioned before, British pensioners are particularly had hit as about $1 in $6 of their income came from BP dividends, which of course also means they owned the stock and take another big hit is share price.

The losses to investors, both UK and US are above $150 billion so far.

well shit… that free healthcare stuff is gonna come in mighty handy!

re: #15 Bagua

As I’ve mentioned before, British pensioners are particularly had hit as about $1 in $6 of their income came from BP dividends, which of course also means they owned the stock and take another big hit is share price.

The losses to investors, both UK and US are above $150 billion so far.

The Brits are really taking it in the shorts financially. Obama didn’t help things, and unnecessarily personalized it, by referring to BP as “British Petroleum”.

Seemed to add insult to injury.

re: #18 Nekama

The Brits are really taking it in the shorts financially. Obama didn’t help things, and unnecessarily personalized it, by referring to BP as “British Petroleum”.

Seemed to add insult to injury.

What does the BP actually stand for these days?

re: #19 jamesfirecat

What does the BP actually stand for these days?

a source of cash.

re: #19 jamesfirecat

What does the BP actually stand for these days?

They were marketing it as “Beyond Petroleum”, but the official name of the company is just BP. the “beyond petroleum” bit was just greenwashing.

re: #19 jamesfirecat

What does the BP actually stand for these days?

“Beyond Petroleum”.

A reference to their exploration of other energy sources, I believe.

re: #10 brookly red

well yes of course all of these stupid people and their damned opinions… and worse than that they actually vote! There oughta be a law…

I’m in favor of requiring people to take a quiz on the positions of the candidates before being allowed to vote, but then I’m an elitist.

Of course that would be bad for the Fox News watchers too, since they’ve been shown to have the some of the poorest understanding of current events of any group of media consumers.

re: #7 Dark_Falcon

Maybe, but more likely Dems are defecting to Crist from Meeks.

Crist is making points by seeming to be in charge with the spill, lots of great photo opts for the sitting governor.

Wasn’t Haley Barbour a character on Hee Haw?

re: #18 Nekama

The Brits are really taking it in the shorts financially. Obama didn’t help things, and unnecessarily personalized it, by referring to BP as “British Petroleum”.

Seemed to add insult to injury.

Jesus I hope you’re not going to insist that Obama apologize for hurting their feelings.

re: #7 Dark_Falcon

Maybe, but more likely Dems are defecting to Crist from Meeks.

Meeks has no chance so they’d naturally prefer Crist to Rubio.

re: #25 Nekama

Wasn’t Haley Barbour a character on Hee Haw?

No, but he used to head the RNC. He’s smart and savvy.

OK, so I read the entire Rolling Stone article on McChrystal. I did not see any damning quotes attributed to him directly. Some of his aides were a little blunt in their criticism of Biden and others.

What did I miss?

re: #23 PT Barnum

I’m in favor of requiring people to take a quiz on the positions of the candidates before being allowed to vote, but then I’m an elitist.

why yes you are… thank you for copping the plea I didn’t want to get all messed up by putting that handle on you.

re: #28 Dark_Falcon

He sure doesn’t sound that way.

re: #27 Nekama

Meeks has no chance so they’d naturally prefer Crist to Rubio.

True that.

re: #30 brookly red

I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing, actually. I think people who don’t have a fucking clue should be kept as far away from the reins of power as possible.

Everything about this whole disaster seems to crush any amount of optimism I have.

Has anyone done anything to make to make any part of this problem better? Even the $20B escrow fund issue prompted me to think “Sounds a little low.”

As far as investors’ losses in BP goes this Clerks clip seems apt.

re: #33 PT Barnum

I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing, actually. I think people who don’t have a fucking clue should be kept as far away from the reins of power as possible.

and of course it is you who gets to decide those people are… yeah we have been down this road before.

re: #29 Racer X

He was quite uncomplimentary about his first meeting with BHO, and certainly surrounding himself with aides who are so indiscreet (“Biden? Bite me”) doesn’t reflect well on him.

re: #34 kreyagg

Everything about this whole disaster seems to crush any amount of optimism I have.

Has anyone done anything to make to make any part of this problem better? Even the $20B escrow fund issue prompted me to think “Sounds a little low.”

As far as investors’ losses in BP goes this Clerks clip seems apt.

[Video]

The 20 billion is not capped, there could be more coming.

re: #29 Racer X

Maybe something like this….

Even though he had voted for Obama, McChrystal and his new commander in chief failed from the outset to connect. The general first encountered Obama a week after he took office, when the president met with a dozen senior military officials in a room at the Pentagon known as the Tank. According to sources familiar with the meeting, McChrystal thought Obama looked “uncomfortable and intimidated” by the roomful of military brass. Their first one-on-one meeting took place in the Oval Office four months later, after McChrystal got the Afghanistan job, and it didn’t go much better. “It was a 10-minute photo op,” says an adviser to McChrystal. “Obama clearly didn’t know anything about him, who he was. Here’s the guy who’s going to run his fucking war, but he didn’t seem very engaged. The Boss was pretty disappointed.”

re: #29 Racer X

OK, so I read the entire Rolling Stone article on McChrystal. I did not see any damning quotes attributed to him directly. Some of his aides were a little blunt in their criticism of Biden and others.

What did I miss?

Because in the earlier thread people were just bashing the shit outta the guy. CNN was talking about a court martial. For what in particular? Not blindly loving Obama and everyone in his administration?

re: #38 Killgore Trout

Maybe something like this…

That is a quote attributed to someone else. Those are not McChrystal’s words.

re: #39 Racer X

Because in the earlier thread people were just bashing the shit outta the guy. CNN was talking about a court martial. For what in particular? Not blindly loving Obama and everyone in his administration?

get used to it… that is the way that these things go.

re: #39 Racer X

Because in the earlier thread people were just bashing the shit outta the guy. CNN was talking about a court martial. For what in particular? Not blindly loving Obama and everyone in his administration?

It’s one thing to dislike and/or disrespect your boss. It’s another thing to say so in public.

The bad guys have CNN too (some would say they are CNN). He should have kept that shit to himself for his troops sake.

re: #35 brookly red

and of course it is you who gets to decide those people are… yeah we have been down this road before.

Don’t put words in my mouth.

But I don’t understand why basic civil competence is considered to be a downside.

People who can’t show they even have a dim awareness of the issues are a danger to us all, as they are the most easily manipulated.

If you want to venerate the incompetent, that’s fine, but I personally would like Idiotocracy to remain a movie, and not a documentary.

re: #38 Killgore Trout

So an advisor to McChrystal says “the boss was pretty disappointed”.

Thats it?

Court martial the guy for that? Seriously?

re: #39 Racer X

Because in the earlier thread people were just bashing the shit outta the guy. CNN was talking about a court martial. For what in particular? Not blindly loving Obama and everyone in his administration?

He’s not going to be court martialed, but he is likely gone behind this. Even David Hunt on O’Reilly made it clear he has to go for this.

re: #44 Racer X

Didn’t you say it was CNN talking about Court Martial? I should hope none of that’s being seriously discussed.

re: #42 Nekama

It’s one thing to dislike and/or disrespect your boss. It’s another thing to say so in public.

The bad guys have CNN too (some would say they are CNN). He should have kept that shit to himself for his troops sake.

He is a very blunt guy, but I have yet to see a direct quote attributed to him that warrants all of the criticism. Perhaps I missed it.

re: #44 Racer X

So an advisor to McChrystal says “the boss was pretty disappointed”.

Thats it?

Court martial the guy for that? Seriously?

Maybe he’s a seekrit Obama lover and his own staff if lying about him. . Would that make you feel better?

re: #39 Racer X

Because in the earlier thread people were just bashing the shit outta the guy. CNN was talking about a court martial. For what in particular? Not blindly loving Obama and everyone in his administration?

It is a sin against nature to criticise Obama, haven’t your noticed?

re: #42 Nekama

It’s one thing to dislike and/or disrespect your boss. It’s another thing to say so in public.

The bad guys have CNN too (some would say they are CNN). He should have kept that shit to himself for his troops sake.

Personally, I think that part of the problem, that the military has become so cowed that they don’t have the balls anymore to stand up and tell the bean-counters and drama queens in D.C. to shut up and let them do their jobs. We don’t have generals anymore, we have politicians in uniform, who are hamstrung by career politicians who worry more about how things play with media than they do about whether they’re effective at winning wars.

re: #34 kreyagg

Everything about this whole disaster seems to crush any amount of optimism I have.

Has anyone done anything to make to make any part of this problem better?

What’s really disappointing to me is the lost opportunity (wasted crisis) to announce and get behind a quantum leap forward in renewable and nuclear energy.

re: #43 PT Barnum

Don’t put words in my mouth.

But I don’t understand why basic civil competence is considered to be a downside.

People who can’t show they even have a dim awareness of the issues are a danger to us all, as they are the most easily manipulated.

If you want to venerate the incompetent, that’s fine, but I personally would like Idiotocracy to remain a movie, and not a documentary.

well that blade cuts both ways, I would agree with you that if that was the case we would not have the leadership we now do. You see it all gets to be about who decides competency/awareness… and quite frankly I don’t trust you to do so. Sorry.

re: #46 JasonA

Didn’t you say it was CNN talking about Court Martial? I should hope none of that’s being seriously discussed.

I looked through the beginning of the earlier thread and thought ‘oh shit what the hell did this guy say?’ The comments were brutal.

There will be no court martial. That is just stupid. Who the heck says that will happen?

re: #51 Nekama

What’s really disappointing to me is the lost opportunity (wasted crisis) to announce and get behind a quantum leap forward in renewable and nuclear energy.

I love you.

re: #48 Killgore Trout

Maybe he’s a seekrit Obama lover and his own staff if lying about him. . Would that make you feel better?

Ha!

No. I like facts. I try to cut to the chase. It seems to me feelings were taking over on this one. Everyone thought for sure The general made some disparaging remarks. I did not see them.

Just yesterday I was in a supermarket picking up a few things, and after hearing me ask for a half pound of ham slices, the deli lady launched into an incoherent rant about them British people and how she’d love to throw all of them in prison - all of them apparently, the whole country. Because they’d been criminally negligent, and killed 11 of our people, and because some other British people (or maybe the same British people who killed some guys to spill some oil, hard to tell) had once been rude to her in some other customer service job. It was quite something to watch, the sort of rant you normally only get from mad tramps at lonely train stations in the middle of the night.

It’s nothing unique to Americans that any major issue can be quickly boiled down to ‘our boys’ and ‘them foreigners with their funny ways’, especially if them foreigners can be accused of some monolithic evil. Nor is it unique to Americans to want to express this nativism in peculiar ways, such as Freedom Fries. Both of these are part of the character of humans all over the world. However, what is unique to Americans is the charming way they have of ranting about them other folk, while clearly including you in that class of other folk, yet somehow also not including you, and being just as polite and pleasant as can be, as if simply by the very virtue of standing in front of them that makes you one of us, and thus part of the club, and obviously just as outraged about them other folk as they are. I thought Borat was an execrable pile of trash, but it did show Americans in a truly positive light - even when they have no understanding of anything outside their daily lives, and even when the foreigners are being truly appalling, they are always unfailingly polite and pleasant. And I find that rare and charming.

Once she was done, a good ten minutes later, I resisted the urge to applaud, and explained that my accent was not in fact British. And then I asked again about the ham.

re: #55 LudwigVanQuixote

I love you.

Get a room.

re: #57 Renaissance_Man

Just yesterday I was in a supermarket picking up a few things, and after hearing me ask for a half pound of ham slices, the deli lady launched into an incoherent rant about them British people and how she’d love to throw all of them in prison - all of them apparently, the whole country. Because they’d been criminally negligent, and killed 11 of our people, and because some other British people (or maybe the same British people who killed some guys to spill some oil, hard to tell) had once been rude to her in some other customer service job. It was quite something to watch, the sort of rant you normally only get from mad tramps at lonely train stations in the middle of the night.

It’s nothing unique to Americans that any major issue can be quickly boiled down to ‘our boys’ and ‘them foreigners with their funny ways’, especially if them foreigners can be accused of some monolithic evil. Nor is it unique to Americans to want to express this nativism in peculiar ways, such as Freedom Fries. Both of these are part of the character of humans all over the world. However, what is unique to Americans is the charming way they have of ranting about them other folk, while clearly including you in that class of other folk, yet somehow also not including you, and being just as polite and pleasant as can be, as if simply by the very virtue of standing in front of them that makes you one of us, and thus part of the club, and obviously just as outraged about them other folk as they are. I thought Borat was an execrable pile of trash, but it did show Americans in a truly positive light - even when they have no understanding of anything outside their daily lives, and even when the foreigners are being truly appalling, they are always unfailingly polite and pleasant. And I find that rare and charming.

Once she was done, a good ten minutes later, I resisted the urge to applaud, and explained that my accent was not in fact British. And then I asked again about the ham.

there is a reason ham is considered un clean :)

re: #52 brookly red

well that blade cuts both ways, I would agree with you that if that was the case we would not have the leadership we now do. You see it all gets to be about who decides competency/awareness… and quite frankly I don’t trust you to do so. Sorry.

So what would you select as the criteria? I would expect people to be able to identify the candidates, their positions (the major ones) and their proposals.

Somehow I think “the other guy’s a sekrit Muslim and a soshulist” isn’t really much of a proposal but that’s just me.

re: #50 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Personally, I think that part of the problem, that the military has become so cowed that they don’t have the balls anymore to stand up and tell the bean-counters and drama queens in D.C. to shut up and let them do their jobs. We don’t have generals anymore, we have politicians in uniform, who are hamstrung by career politicians who worry more about how things play with media than they do about whether they’re effective at winning wars.

Very true. I can’t believe there wasn’t a mass mutiny over the pussified ROE. And that shit’s been going down since Bush turned our great warriors into “peace keepers” who were supposed to win “hearts and minds”.

These people kill people and blow things up. THAT’S their job. If the pols don’t have the stomach for the nasty stuff then they shouldn’t send our fine young people into battle.

re: #55 LudwigVanQuixote

I love you.

Thanks Mom!

re: #49 Bagua

It is a sin against nature to criticise Obama, haven’t your noticed?

The really funny part?

McChrystal has been adopting some of Biden’s strategies in Afghanistan. The troops there do not like it. It looks to me like he has been trying real hard to follow directions from Obama and his administration and those around him are not happy about it.

He is doing what a soldier should do - follow the directions of the politicians. He is getting crucified for something he did not do. Again, unless I missed a direct quote of his.

re: #51 Nekama

What’s really disappointing to me is the lost opportunity (wasted crisis) to announce and get behind a quantum leap forward in renewable and nuclear energy.

Why is it a “lost” opportunity? Seems like the opportunity is still there and will be for a long time. People have not really even begun to feel the full effect of this disaster. When they do, maybe they’ll be ready for some real change.

re: #61 Nekama

Very true. I can’t believe there wasn’t a mass mutiny over the pussified ROE. And that shit’s been going down since Bush turned our great warriors into “peace keepers” who were supposed to win “hearts and minds”.

These people kill people and blow things up. THAT’S their job. If the pols don’t have the stomach for the nasty stuff then they shouldn’t send our fine young people into battle.

That would require that the politicians actually give some thought to diplomacy and trying to win hearts and minds first (which takes a hell of a lot longer) instead of just blowing things up (which is fairly immediate)

re: #57 Renaissance_Man

Good post, very insightful.

re: #64 Tigger2005

Why is it a “lost” opportunity? Seems like the opportunity is still there and will be for a long time. People have not really even begun to feel the full effect of this disaster. When they do, maybe they’ll be ready for some real change.

Yes, you’re right. I really had BHO’s speech in mind but didn’t say so. My bad.

Renewables and nuclear. Something for everybody.

I’m just amazed that someone with such great political instincts - as good if not better than Clinton - who’s got Emmanuel telling him not to waste a crisis - let that one get away.

But you’re right. There’s still time.

re: #60 PT Barnum

So what would you select as the criteria? I would expect people to be able to identify the candidates, their positions (the major ones) and their proposals.

Somehow I think “the other guy’s a sekrit Muslim and a soshulist” isn’t really much of a proposal but that’s just me.

I would not select a criteria that is the point… one citizen one vote. Unless you happen to be a selected group that gets to vote 6 times.

greenwichtime.com

but this is not an outrage…

re: #64 Tigger2005

Why is it a “lost” opportunity? Seems like the opportunity is still there and will be for a long time. People have not really even begun to feel the full effect of this disaster. When they do, maybe they’ll be ready for some real change.

That opportunity has been lost by a lot of the previous presidents because not one has been willing to do the one thing that would create an incentive for people to drive less and travel more efficiently: Raise the gas tax to pay for the transition from petroleum to other forms of energy. As long as gas is relatively cheap, you are going to have a hard time getting people to adopt new habits and technologies.

re: #63 Racer X

Once thing about Obama, at least he’s cool. He’ll have a couple beers with McChrystal and chide him about his comments at a roast.

re: #19 jamesfirecat

What does the BP actually stand for these days?

Not British!

Good catch James!

So what is the consensus here if any?
Is he gone or is he assigned to finish what he started regardless, or else?

re: #68 brookly red

I would not select a criteria that is the point… one citizen one vote. Unless you happen to be a selected group that gets to vote 6 times.

[Link: www.greenwichtime.com…]

but this is not an outrage…

So you don’t see an uninformed electorate as an issue?

Evening Honcos.

re: #64 Tigger2005

Why is it a “lost” opportunity? Seems like the opportunity is still there and will be for a long time. People have not really even begun to feel the full effect of this disaster. When they do, maybe they’ll be ready for some real change.

Are people ready to slash their standard of living?

re: #69 PT Barnum

That opportunity has been lost by a lot of the previous presidents because not one has been willing to do the one thing that would create an incentive for people to drive less and travel more efficiently: Raise the gas tax to pay for the transition from petroleum to other forms of energy. As long as gas is relatively cheap, you are going to have a hard time getting people to adopt new habits and technologies.

yep, and as someone who wants a V8 monster, I heartily endorse a big gas tax to pay for the transition. Make daily drivers 80mpg, bring all those awesome city cars from europe over here, make bloated one-occupant 50000 lb daily driver SUVs nearly extinct, leave the big engines to car enthusiasts :D

re: #68 brookly red

I would not select a criteria that is the point… one citizen one vote. Unless you happen to be a selected group that gets to vote 6 times.

[Link: www.greenwichtime.com…]

but this is not an outrage…

yes that is right a court can order that some people can vote 6 times… I got a problem with that but hey I am just a wingnut. I am sure it is all good.

re: #69 PT Barnum

That opportunity has been lost by a lot of the previous presidents because not one has been willing to do the one thing that would create an incentive for people to drive less and travel more efficiently: Raise the gas tax to pay for the transition from petroleum to other forms of energy.

But we worship the automobile. We have developed special ceremonial ties to the things… Just off the wire:

Senate cuts to recession relief bill favor special interests

As the Senate scrambles to scale back a $140-billion recession relief bill, the poor, the elderly and the unemployed are bearing the brunt of the squeeze. But NASCAR track developers, movie producers and other special interests are likely to escape unscathed.

[…]

Proponents argue that their favored provisions contribute to job creation. A case in point is the NASCAR break, which affects how quickly motor sports entertainment complexes can write off the cost of property development. Track owners spread the cost of such investments over seven years; most taxpayers are allowed 15 years for business property depreciation.

The Internal Revenue Service challenged the seven-year schedule used by International Speedway Corp. — owners of the Daytona Speedway and 11 other NASCAR tracks — but in 2004 Congress passed a law reversing the IRS ruling.

Lenny Santiago, a spokesman for International Speedway, said the tax treatment helped the Daytona Speedway generate $1.9 billion a year in economic benefits to central Florida.

“We have to continue to make the facilities appealing to fans,” he said. “We can’t let things fall into disrepair.”

Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas) said at a recent hearing that it was an “unjustified and unnecessary” break, worth $38 million to the company, that would never pass muster as a straight-up appropriation of federal money.

“If you were to come … and ask us to write a check through the appropriations process for $38 million for the year only for NASCAR,” Doggett said, “you’d be laughed out of the room.”

re: #39 Racer X

Because in the earlier thread people were just bashing the shit outta the guy. CNN was talking about a court martial. For what in particular? Not blindly loving Obama and everyone in his administration?

Holy shit.

He blew it by giving those quotes, and having those quotes confirmed 2 weeks ago by RS. He knew this was coming.

CIC unless it’s Obama. That’s all I’m hearing.

re: #79 Stanley Sea

Holy shit.

He blew it by giving those quotes, and having those quotes confirmed 2 weeks ago by RS. He knew this was coming.

CIC unless it’s Obama. That’s all I’m hearing.

RS sent him the final draft and he approved it. No changes were requested, or so I hear.

re: #65 PT Barnum

That would require that the politicians actually give some thought to diplomacy and trying to win hearts and minds first (which takes a hell of a lot longer) instead of just blowing things up (which is fairly immediate)

Very true. But war is serious stuff. It deserves thinking, and thinking some more, and playing all sorts of scenarios out. Bush blew it on Iraq, IMHO.

Crushing Saddam was the easy part. Now what do we do?

Wolfowitz and “the Iraqis will welcome us” and “the oil revenue will pay for it all” should be in Gitmo. He and Rumsfeld have killed more of our guys than the Iraqis ever could.

re: #73 PT Barnum

So you don’t see an uninformed electorate as an issue?

It is a huge issue! major big humongous issue! look at what ignorant people voting has gotten us into! unfortunately stupid is a right.

re: #78 freetoken

Convincing people to drive less or get off their reliance of cars will require far more effort than just making their cars smaller, lighter, more efficient, and petroleum free. If a guy can go on craigslist, buy a Metro, bolt on some stuff and get 100mpg in the thing, we can do this.

There’s no reason for single-occupant commuter 4500 lb cars. Its a ludicrous extravagance.

re: #78 freetoken

I think you bolded the wrong part.

Lenny Santiago, a spokesman for International Speedway, said the tax treatment helped the Daytona Speedway generate $1.9 billion a year in economic benefits to central Florida.

We spent $38 million and pumped almost $2 Billion into the economy. Isn’t that exactly how Stimulus is supposed to work?

Plus, it’s NASCAR Baby!

re: #82 brookly red

It is a huge issue! major big humongous issue! look at what ignorant people voting has gotten us into! unfortunately stupid is a right.

I would agree, although I think the number of low information voters were overly high on both sides in the last election.

re: #49 Bagua

It is a sin against nature to criticise Obama, haven’t your noticed?

Lame.

re: #79 Stanley Sea

Holy shit.

He blew it by giving those quotes, and having those quotes confirmed 2 weeks ago by RS. He knew this was coming.

CIC unless it’s Obama. That’s all I’m hearing.

Which quotes?

re: #68 brookly red

I would not select a criteria that is the point… one citizen one vote. Unless you happen to be a selected group that gets to vote 6 times.

[Link: www.greenwichtime.com…]

but this is not an outrage…

so bird, how do you justify 1 person being able to vote six times more than another person? Please I would love to hear the logic.

re: #61 Nekama

Very true. I can’t believe there wasn’t a mass mutiny over the pussified ROE. And that shit’s been going down since Bush turned our great warriors into “peace keepers” who were supposed to win “hearts and minds”.

These people kill people and blow things up. THAT’S their job. If the pols don’t have the stomach for the nasty stuff then they shouldn’t send our fine young people into battle.

America is simply no longer willing to fight to win. And much to Israel’s dismay, America will not allow Israel to fight to win either. It’s the new age of warfare…fighting to win a military victory is barbaric and forbidden.

re: #80 Rightwingconspirator

RS sent him the final draft and he approved it. No changes were requested, or so I hear.

I read the entire article. I did not find anything that was damning from McChrystal. What did I miss?

re: #79 Stanley Sea

Holy shit.

He blew it by giving those quotes, and having those quotes confirmed 2 weeks ago by RS. He knew this was coming.

CIC unless it’s Obama. That’s all I’m hearing.

Only a white republican president gets respect from the troops! Who does this kid in the oval office think he is?!?!

re: #89 Spare O’Lake

America is simply no longer willing to fight to win. And much to Israel’s dismay, America will not allow Israel to fight to win either. It’s the new age of warfare…fighting to win a military victory is barbaric and forbidden.

Somebody had better rethink that real quick or the Old Age of Warfare is gonna kick our ass.

re: #50 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Personally, I think that part of the problem, that the military has become so cowed that they don’t have the balls anymore to stand up and tell the bean-counters and drama queens in D.C. to shut up and let them do their jobs. We don’t have generals anymore, we have politicians in uniform, who are hamstrung by career politicians who worry more about how things play with media than they do about whether they’re effective at winning wars.

Any four star general is a politician, period

re: #56 Racer X

Ha!

No. I like facts. I try to cut to the chase. It seems to me feelings were taking over on this one. Everyone thought for sure The general made some disparaging remarks. I did not see them.

Really? Because you seem to assume @#39 that the quotes are accurate and his crime is “Not blindly loving Obama and everyone in his administration?”
Are the quotes inaccurate or does he hate his commander? Which is it? You can’t simultaneously argue both at the same time.
I suspect you, and many others, will love him just because he trashed the President. I think that’s why he did it. It’s an easy ploy to launch a political career because he’s against Obama. He doesn’t need ideas of his own he only has to shout out “you lie” or whatever to garner Tea Party/Wingnut support. It’s very easy to do and anyone with a high profile could easily see themselves on the next Republican presidential ticket by using the same gimmick. You idiots are getting played.

re: #83 WindUpBird

There’s no reason for single-occupant commuter 4500 lb cars. Its a ludicrous extravagance.

What?! I thought is was the God-given right of his Chosen Nation (chosen at least until the Rapture at which time Israel returns to the fold.)

re: #91 WindUpBird

Only a white republican president gets respect from the troops! Who does this kid in the oval office think he is?!?!

Ahh. The race card. Well played.

re: #69 PT Barnum

That opportunity has been lost by a lot of the previous presidents because not one has been willing to do the one thing that would create an incentive for people to drive less and travel more efficiently: Raise the gas tax to pay for the transition from petroleum to other forms of energy. As long as gas is relatively cheap, you are going to have a hard time getting people to adopt new habits and technologies.

True, but raising taxes usually doesn’t get you elected. I would have been fine with a gradually increasing gas tax and a floor, below which gas prices could never fall, so that alternatives would know they wouldn’t get submarined by cheap gas and they could raise money.

Putting that tax money in a dedicated fund toward a Manhattan Project type initiative for renewables would have been great. And it’s exactly the type of thing that real leadership could have gotten our country behind.

Maybe it will happen soon. One can hope.

re: #94 Killgore Trout

Really? Because you seem to assume @#39 that the quotes are accurate and his crime is “Not blindly loving Obama and everyone in his administration?”
Are the quotes inaccurate or does he hate his commander? Which is it? You can’t simultaneously argue both at the same time.
I suspect you, and many others, will love him just because he trashed the President. I think that’s why he did it. It’s an easy ploy to launch a political career because he’s against Obama. He doesn’t need ideas of his own he only has to shout out “you lie” or whatever to garner Tea Party/Wingnut support. It’s very easy to do and anyone with a high profile could easily see themselves on the next Republican presidential ticket by using the same gimmick. You idiots are getting played.

People are easily manipulated by political stunts. Especially when they’re pissed off and afraid.

This is a stunt.

re: #97 Nekama

True, but raising taxes usually doesn’t get you elected. I would have been fine with a gradually increasing gas tax and a floor, below which gas prices could never fall, so that alternatives would know they wouldn’t get submarined by cheap gas and they could raise money.

Putting that tax money in a dedicated fund toward a Manhattan Project type initiative for renewables would have been great. And it’s exactly the type of thing that real leadership could have gotten our country behind.

Maybe it will happen soon. One can hope.

I don’t love you as much as Ludwig, but I will respect you in the morning…:)

re: #94 Killgore Trout

Really? Because you seem to assume @#39 that the quotes are accurate and his crime is “Not blindly loving Obama and everyone in his administration?”
Are the quotes inaccurate or does he hate his commander? Which is it? You can’t simultaneously argue both at the same time.
I suspect you, and many others, will love him just because he trashed the President. I think that’s why he did it. It’s an easy ploy to launch a political career because he’s against Obama. He doesn’t need ideas of his own he only has to shout out “you lie” or whatever to garner Tea Party/Wingnut support. It’s very easy to do and anyone with a high profile could easily see themselves on the next Republican presidential ticket by using the same gimmick. You idiots are getting played.

Please post me a quote attributed to McChrystal. Not some aide, or what some aide thought McChrystal thinks. An actual quote.

That’s all I ask.

re: #75 Spare O’Lake

Are people ready to slash their standard of living?

I’m not sure what part of Canada you’re from, but were I live, green energy is going to be creating a lot of jobs.

Samsung C&T, Korea Electric Power Company to Build World’s Largest Wind, Solar Panel Cluster in Ontario

$7 billion renewable energy project will be largest of its kind in the world

According to the terms of the green energy investment agreement, Samsung C&T and KEPCO will establish and operate a series of wind and solar power clusters over the next 20 years. The clusters, which will be built in several locations throughout the province, will eventually include wind turbines that will generate up to 2000 MW as well as solar power facilities that will generate up to 500 MW. The entire project will have a combined power-generating capacity of 2.5 GW by 2016, producing energy equivalent to four per cent of Ontario’s total electricity consumption.

The Province plans to shut down all of its coal-fired power plants by 2014 and increase Ontario’s ratio of renewable power generation. Ontario is currently a North American leader in the adoption of green energy policies with its passing of the Green Energy Act in May 2009.

re: #98 WindUpBird

People are easily manipulated by political stunts. Especially when they’re pissed off and afraid.

This is a stunt.

I’m pretty sure it is.

re: #98 WindUpBird

People are easily manipulated by political stunts. Especially when they’re pissed off and afraid.

This is a stunt.

Oh I wholeheartedly agree with you on this one.

re: #91 WindUpBird

Only a white republican president gets respect from the troops! Who does this kid in the oval office think he is?!?!

That particular “troop” (McChrystal) respected Obama enough to vote for him.

What happened after that to make McChrystal lose respect is anybody’s guess, really.

McChrystal was way out of line, making those comments. Way out line.

re: #89 Spare O’Lake

America is simply no longer willing to fight to win. And much to Israel’s dismay, America will not allow Israel to fight to win either. It’s the new age of warfare…fighting to win a military victory is barbaric and forbidden.

I don’t know. Neither of them has really been pushed hard enough yet. If it came down to survival - and Israel is getting close - there would be some serious ass kicked.

re: #95 freetoken

What?! I thought is was the God-given right of his Chosen Nation (chosen at least until the Rapture at which time Israel returns to the fold.)

G-d drives a Plymouth, you know. The scripture says that He drove Adam and Eve from the garden of Eden in his Fury.

re: #86 Stanley Sea

Lame.

Hey, I try my best.

re: #95 freetoken

What?! I thought is was the God-given right of his Chosen Nation (chosen at least until the Rapture at which time Israel returns to the fold.)

Jesus himself. Himself! He came down on a sunbeam and he told me and my lovely wife that it’s very Christian and righteous to have two matching red, white and blue 6600 pound Hummer H2s and gigagallons of cheap crude to power them with!

re: #94 Killgore Trout

Really? Because you seem to assume @#39 that the quotes are accurate and his crime is “Not blindly loving Obama and everyone in his administration?”
Are the quotes inaccurate or does he hate his commander? Which is it? You can’t simultaneously argue both at the same time.
I suspect you, and many others, will love him just because he trashed the President. I think that’s why he did it. It’s an easy ploy to launch a political career because he’s against Obama. He doesn’t need ideas of his own he only has to shout out “you lie” or whatever to garner Tea Party/Wingnut support. It’s very easy to do and anyone with a high profile could easily see themselves on the next Republican presidential ticket by using the same gimmick. You idiots are getting played.

If Obama doesn’t accept his resignation tomorrow, then who exactly will be getting gamed then? And by whom?

re: #104 reine.de.tout

That particular “troop” (McChrystal) respected Obama enough to vote for him.

What happened after that to make McChrystal lose respect is anybody’s guess, really.

McChrystal was way out of line, making those comments. Way out line.

Which comments?

re: #88 brookly red

so bird, how do you justify 1 person being able to vote six times more than another person? Please I would love to hear the logic.

OK bird fill yer hand!

how in AMERICA is it OK for a judge to award a group 6 votes per person, you down dinged it now back it up.

re: #110 Racer X

Which comments?

McChrystal and his team, then. And this was his team, and he allowed them to spout off. Wrong.

re: #108 WindUpBird

Jesus himself. Himself! He came down on a sunbeam and he told me and my lovely wife that it’s very Christian and righteous to have two matching red, white and blue 6600 pound Hummer H2s and gigagallons of cheap crude to power them with!

Jesus drove a Honda. He and the disciples were all in one Accord.

re: #99 PT Barnum

I was just planning on sleeping late.

re: #100 Racer X

I”l post you your quote….

Because in the earlier thread people were just bashing the shit outta the guy. CNN was talking about a court martial. For what in particular? Not blindly loving Obama and everyone in his administration?

You feel his opinions are accurately portrayed in the article and he’s being persecuted for speaking out. That’s why you like him.

re: #110 Racer X

Which comments?

And check out Killgore’s #38.re: #38 Killgore Trout

re: #75 Spare O’Lake

Are people ready to slash their standard of living?

How exactly is becoming more efficient slashing your standard of living? Take cars for example: there are a lot of bloated SUVs that use a lot of gas. And there’s a lot of amazingly cool cars that get 40mpg. It’s not standard of living. it’s just waste.

re: #94 Killgore Trout

Really? Because you seem to assume @#39 that the quotes are accurate and his crime is “Not blindly loving Obama and everyone in his administration?”
Are the quotes inaccurate or does he hate his commander? Which is it? You can’t simultaneously argue both at the same time.
I suspect you, and many others, will love him just because he trashed the President. I think that’s why he did it. It’s an easy ploy to launch a political career because he’s against Obama. He doesn’t need ideas of his own he only has to shout out “you lie” or whatever to garner Tea Party/Wingnut support. It’s very easy to do and anyone with a high profile could easily see themselves on the next Republican presidential ticket by using the same gimmick. You idiots are getting played.

Thank you Killgore.

The people who have always been about “Country” are so quick to support insubordination. I’ve been whip lashing all day.

re: #118 Stanley Sea

Thank you Killgore.

The people who have always been about “Country” are so quick to support insubordination. I’ve been whip lashing all day.

eh.
Insubordination is not supported by this wingnut.
This was wrong.

re: #89 Spare O’Lake

America Obama is simply no longer willing to fight to win. And much to Israel’s dismay, America Obama will not allow Israel to fight to win either. It’s the new age of warfare…fighting to win a military victory is barbaric and forbidden.

Fixed

re: #111 brookly red

OK bird fill yer hand!

how in AMERICA is it OK for a judge to award a group 6 votes per person, you down dinged it now back it up.

You did not even read that article.

Seriously, you are so stupid you defeat the word stupid

re: #103 Racer X

Oh I wholeheartedly agree with you on this one.

USA USA USA!

Country First!

bullshit.

re: #117 WindUpBird

How exactly is becoming more efficient slashing your standard of living? Take cars for example: there are a lot of bloated SUVs that use a lot of gas. And there’s a lot of amazingly cool cars that get 40mpg. It’s not standard of living. it’s just waste.

as much of a waste as one person voting 6 times, legally? come on bird.

re: #115 Killgore Trout

I”l post you your quote…

You feel his opinions are accurately portrayed in the article and he’s being persecuted for speaking out. That’s why you like him.

I love the man.

Wait, no I don’t. He voted for Obama.

;-)

For every 10 MPG of what you drive, you get 1 vote. I’m buying a scooter.
/

re: #118 Stanley Sea

I’m building a raft to navigate this river of dumb. Would you like to navigate? :D

re: #50 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Personally, I think that part of the problem, that the military has become so cowed that they don’t have the balls anymore to stand up and tell the bean-counters and drama queens in D.C. to shut up and let them do their jobs. We don’t have generals anymore, we have politicians in uniform, who are hamstrung by career politicians who worry more about how things play with media than they do about whether they’re effective at winning wars.

It would be naive in the extreme to assume it has not always been so. Generals are political figures, like it or not.

re: #116 reine.de.tout

And check out Killgore’s #38.re: #38 Killgore Trout

Saw it.

re: #109 Spare O’Lake

If Obama doesn’t accept his resignation tomorrow, then who exactly will be getting gamed then? And by whom?

I think Obama will not accept his resignation and keep hi tied up with some crappy job in an obscure and miserable post in Qxyrzstan while answering to bureaucrats who want things typed in triplicate on 1950’s manual typewriters using real carbon paper. It keeps him from being a Tea Party Hero for disgracing his country and increases his own personal misery.
If they feel he’s a real idiot who will self destruct on his own they might just let him go.

A day of prayer? Our country will be a better place when society moves away from the absurdity of superstition. And it is absurd.

re: #121 WindUpBird

You did not even read that article.

Seriously, you are so stupid you defeat the word stupid

oh I am stupid, my parents came here for the right to vote 1 time… yes when in doubt call someone stupid… can I be a racist puppy kicker too or are you just gonna duck.

re: #109 Spare O’Lake

If Obama doesn’t accept his resignation tomorrow, then who exactly will be getting gamed then? And by whom?

So you’re spinning if Obama keeps him on Obama will be “gamed” by a general?

Glad you are a Canadian, cause you are not on the side of the US.

re: #101 Reginald Perrin

That Samsung deal is just fine, but it represents only 4% and in 20 years that could be 2% assuming reasonable growth in demand. The loss of the coal-fired plants will likely produce a net decrease in generating capacity. So when all is said and done, this seems a lot like some more of McGuinty’s typical smoke and mirror Liberal lying bullshit.

Anything to hurt Obama.
Shit, how very much like the moonbats under Bush.

re: #115 Killgore Trout

I”l post you your quote…

You feel his opinions are accurately portrayed in the article and he’s being persecuted for speaking out. That’s why you like him.

So transparent. McCrystal 1, Obama 0.

re: #113 SteveC

Jesus drove a Honda. He and the disciples were all in one Accord.

But not that V6 Hybrid accord, that one’s tuned more for HP than efficiency :D

re: #119 reine.de.tout

I know you! :)

Look, I could care less about McChrystal. I read the entire Rolling Stone article and I did not find one direct quote of the general that was horrible. None. What did I miss?

re: #121 WindUpBird

You did not even read that article.

Seriously, you are so stupid you defeat the word stupid

Is that really necessary?

re: #39 Racer X

Because in the earlier thread people were just bashing the shit outta the guy. CNN was talking about a court martial. For what in particular? Not blindly loving Obama and everyone in his administration?

No, for talking out of school in Rolling Stone.

Now, CNN is being demented.

re: #49 Bagua

It is a sin against nature to criticise Obama, haven’t your noticed?

ReALity check.

re: #126 WindUpBird

I’m building a raft to navigate this river of dumb. Would you like to navigate? :D

My neck hurts, but I’ll try.

Good night all.

re: #122 Stanley Sea

USA USA USA!

Country First!

bullshit.

Not sure what you mean?

re: #141 SanFranciscoZionist

ReALity check.

Heh, she’s catching up quickly.

re: #77 brookly red

yes that is right a court can order that some people can vote 6 times… I got a problem with that but hey I am just a wingnut. I am sure it is all good.

Cumulative voting is evil?

That’s a new one.

re: #133 Spare O’Lake

It’s not the only project, there are literally dozens of wind and solar projects being developed. In fact there are currently more green energy proposols in Ontario than the grid can handle.

Did you miss the part of my post where it said Ontario will close all coal fired plants by the year 2014?

Where did McChrystal “trash the president”?

Anyone? Bueller?

re: #77 brookly red

yes that is right a court can order that some people can vote 6 times… I got a problem with that but hey I am just a wingnut. I am sure it is all good.

It seems like a terrible idea.

Why you’re doing a little pity party for yourself over this story is another question.

re: #148 Racer X

Where did McChrystal “trash the president”?

Anyone? Bueller?

It’s a nontroversy.

re: #144 Racer X

Not sure what you mean?

LAKERS.

re: #149 SanFranciscoZionist

It seems like a terrible idea.

Why you’re doing a little pity party for yourself over this story is another question.

It was a terrible idea.
Which is why I personally don’t think it’ll catch on.

re: #90 Racer X
Yes the media is running away with the sensational. Shocka! Obviously he unleashed his aides candor. “Bite Me”=Biden? Attribute his aides actions & words to him directly.

It’s simply not done!

re: #102 Killgore Trout

I’m pretty sure it is.

I agree, stunt.

re: #149 SanFranciscoZionist

It seems like a terrible idea.

Why you’re doing a little pity party for yourself over this story is another question.

no pity just curious that some find this OK,? so why do you reject the idea and still want to mess w/me? seems odd?

re: #134 Varek Raith

Anything to hurt Obama.
Shit, how very much like the moonbats under Bush.

That is what kills me. Unbelievable.

re: #156 Rightwingconspirator

That is what kills me. Unbelievable.

Mah haid, it hertz!

re: #154 Bagua

I agree, stunt.

Yep.
Some of my FB friends, I see, are wondering the same thing I’ve seen mentioned here - what office is McChrystal going to run for?
Alternatively - it’s been suggested he has a job lined up as a commenter for Fox News.

re: #156 Rightwingconspirator

That is what kills me. Unbelievable.

Poor Obama, this hurts.

re: #120 Dark_Falcon

Nope, Obama is just another in a long line.
1956 - victory denied by US pressure to withdraw
1967 - victory denied by US pressure to stop
1973 - victory denied by US pressure to stop
Lebanon - victory denied by US time limit pressure
Gaza - victory denied by US time limit pressure

re: #150 Bagua

It’s a nontroversy.

Not really. It was all over the morning talk shows and the news. Everyone was all excited about it earlier. I finally got off my ass and actually read the article and I’m like ‘what the fuck’? That was nothing. I kept looking for the money quote and there was none. Zip. Nada.

re: #159 Bagua

Poor Obama, this hurts.

maybe a couple more concerts & some golf would benefit us all?

re: #81 Nekama

Very true. But war is serious stuff. It deserves thinking, and thinking some more, and playing all sorts of scenarios out. Bush blew it on Iraq, IMHO.

Crushing Saddam was the easy part. Now what do we do?

Wolfowitz and “the Iraqis will welcome us” and “the oil revenue will pay for it all” should be in Gitmo. He and Rumsfeld have killed more of our guys than the Iraqis ever could.

Colin Powell said, of going into Iraq, that it would be a ‘you break it, you bought it’ situation. Pretty much.

re: #158 reine.de.tout

Yep.
Some of my FB friends, I see, are wondering the same thing I’ve seen mentioned here - what office is McChrystal going to run for?
Alternatively - it’s been suggested he has a job lined up as a commenter for Fox News.

Well, that would make him some money while he writes his book. Unlike Sarah Palin, he won’t need a ghost writer.

So many awesome 40+ MPG cars we can’t get here mostly because of our stupidly draconian diesel standards. Canada can get a 70mpg diesel car, but not us!

So what did McChrystal say to get in so much trouble? Actually, it was mostly comments by his unnamed aides — dismissing top senators, calling Ambassador Richard Holbrooke “a wounded animal,” and describing McChrystal as unimpressed with Obama’s grasp of the Afghan War. For good measure, McChrystal also mocked Joe Biden on the record, and told Rolling Stone reporter Michael Hastings he felt “betrayed” by top ambassador Karl Eikenberry.

And more than just incendiary quotes, the article portrayed a climate of open disdain for civilian leadership by McChrystal and his inner circle, as Steve Clemons and others have pointed out.

You know what Racer X and Bagua? Just a nontroversy. No biggie.

Afganistan, CIC, 4-Star General & staff. No biggie.

re: #158 reine.de.tout

Yep.
Some of my FB friends, I see, are wondering the same thing I’ve seen mentioned here - what office is McChrystal going to run for?
Alternatively - it’s been suggested he has a job lined up as a commenter for Fox News.

No, the stunt is by Rolling Stone. They gained his confidence and did a hit job. No wonder he fired his PR staff. He got hoodwinked.

re: #104 reine.de.tout

That particular “troop” (McChrystal) respected Obama enough to vote for him.

What happened after that to make McChrystal lose respect is anybody’s guess, really.

McChrystal was way out of line, making those comments. Way out line.

Sometimes familiarity breeds contempt, I suppose.

re: #127 Fozzie Bear

It would be naive in the extreme to assume it has not always been so. Generals are political figures, like it or not.

And it is absurd in the extreme to believe that wars can be fought effectively and politically correct. Or that you can measure progress in simplistic terms, like tons of bombs dropped, number of enemy wounded/killed, or amount of territory taken. Likewise occupations are not short, they are not simple, and they do not come without a lot of controversy.

There is a reason that, at the top of the chain, the military answers to a civilian president and civilian government. But the civilians have to understand that this is not American Idol, you don’t wars based upon polls, withdrawals don’t rely upon timetables, and that the generals work best when they don’t have half of Congress riding on their backs.

re: #162 brookly red

maybe a couple more concerts & some golf would benefit us all?

Quite right. The President should remain fit and relaxed.

re: #161 Racer X

Not really. It was all over the morning talk shows and the news. Everyone was all excited about it earlier. I finally got off my ass and actually read the article and I’m like ‘what the fuck’? That was nothing. I kept looking for the money quote and there was none. Zip. Nada.

McChrystal has obviously been talking in a generally disparaging way to his subordinates about his Commander in Chief, which is different from disagreeing with with particular things.

The aides then talked to the magazine and reported what they knew of their bosses’ feelings toward Obama. McChrystal allowed the interviews to occur and had to have known what was in there, and apparently raised no issues.

If he did not say these things directly to the reporter, he did say them directly to his aides who then passed the info on to the reporter, with McChrystal’s knowledge and approval.

It’s just not done.

re: #166 Stanley Sea

You know what Racer X and Bagua? Just a nontroversy. No biggie.

Afganistan, CIC, 4-Star General & staff. No biggie.

I agree. Total nontroversy. Just a bunch of unnamed aides.

200hp diesel Mercedes C-class that gets 45mpg. and 268 foot-pounds of torque.

What was that about slashing our standard of living? Bullshit.

re: #167 Bagua

Not so sure. He got prior review. He had his chance.

re: #167 Bagua

No, the stunt is by Rolling Stone. They gained his confidence and did a hit job. No wonder he fired his PR staff. He got hoodwinked.

You think?
I don’t think he was hoodwinked, at all.
If he was, then he’s completely stupid.

re: #171 reine.de.tout

McChrystal has obviously been talking in a generally disparaging way to his subordinates about his Commander in Chief, which is different from disagreeing with with particular things.

The aides then talked to the magazine and reported what they knew of their bosses’ feelings toward Obama. McChrystal allowed the interviews to occur and had to have known what was in there, and apparently raised no issues.

If he did not say these things directly to the reporter, he did say them directly to his aides who then passed the info on to the reporter, with McChrystal’s knowledge and approval.

It’s just not done.

Two words:

Reverand…. .

Ah forget it.

re: #173 WindUpBird

That’s 368 ft-lbs of torque.

re: #121 WindUpBird

You did not even read that article.

Seriously, you are so stupid you defeat the word stupid

Apparently, neither did I. They’re using cumulative voting?

OY. THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END.

re: #176 Racer X

Two words:

Reverand…. .

Ah forget it.

eh?
‘splain?

re: #176 Racer X

Two words:

Reverand…. .

Ah forget it.

He’s a general???

re: #167 Bagua

No, the stunt is by Rolling Stone. They gained his confidence and did a hit job. No wonder he fired his PR staff. He got hoodwinked.

/well all things considered if he let a lefty rag inside the wire I do question his judgement…

re: #132 Stanley Sea

So you’re spinning if Obama keeps him on Obama will be “gamed” by a general?

Glad you are a Canadian, cause you are not on the side of the US.

That’s not what I implied at all, Stunley. If Obama lacks the balls to accept his resignation, it will be because Obama believes that getting rid of McChrystal will not be politically expedient. So it would be Obama gaming the US electorate, as usual.

And, Stunley, as a Canadian I want a strong and successful America. Canada is America’s largest trading partner and staunchest ally.

re: #180 Varek Raith

He’s a general???

No. He’s President.

re: #152 reine.de.tout

It was a terrible idea.
Which is why I personally don’t think it’ll catch on.

Yeah, it took me a reread to realize, after the build-up, that what they’re talking about is simply a cumulative voting process. We do, or did that in San Francisco. It’s no big deal, but I’ve never liked it.

re: #183 Racer X

No. He’s President.

If you think Wright is fair game, then so is this. No?

re: #166 Stanley Sea

You know what Racer X and Bagua? Just a nontroversy. No biggie.

Afganistan, CIC, 4-Star General & staff. No biggie.

Well then, that’s that, we all agree.

re: #160 Spare O’Lake

Nope, Obama is just another in a long line.
1956 - victory denied by US pressure to withdraw
1967 - victory denied by US pressure to stop
1973 - victory denied by US pressure to stop
Lebanon - victory denied by US time limit pressure
Gaza - victory denied by US time limit pressure

Israel won decisively in 1967, and was willing to stop, since further advances would have been very hard. In 1973, it was mostly Soviet pressure that ended the war. The Soviets were not willing to see Israel push west further into Egypt and threatened to intervene. You’re right about 1956 ans 2006. I’d call Gaza a win also, since its hard to see what more the IDF could have done short of reoccupying Gaza.

re: #167 Bagua

No, the stunt is by Rolling Stone. They gained his confidence and did a hit job. No wonder he fired his PR staff. He got hoodwinked.

hahaha you are so deluded about this it boggles the mind. All those things he said to a national magazine with gigantic distribution all over the world, and OH NO THEY’D NEVER PRINT THAT! Not in Rolling Stone!

If he really believed RS wouldn’t print all that juicy stuff he said, then McChrystal should be relieved of duty for being mentally disabled.

Man, the soldier sniffing here sometimes, it really is amazing. A general can do no wrong, the president can do no right.

re: #155 brookly red

no pity just curious that some find this OK,? so why do you reject the idea and still want to mess w/me? seems odd?

Read the article you posted.

I accepted your line about it, which is false, then I read it.

re: #167 Bagua

No, the stunt is by Rolling Stone. They gained his confidence and did a hit job. No wonder he fired his PR staff. He got hoodwinked.

You can’t be serious. Really? You forgot your sarc tags, or aren’t following this.

re: #188 WindUpBird

hahaha you are so deluded about this it boggles the mind. All those things he said to a national magazine with gigantic distribution all over the world, and OH NO THEY’D NEVER PRINT THAT! Not in Rolling Stone!

If he really believed RS wouldn’t print all that juicy stuff he said, then McChrystal should be relieved of duty for being mentally disabled.

Man, the soldier sniffing here sometimes, it really is amazing. A general can do no wrong, the president can do no right.

BUSH!!!
Wait…

re: #158 reine.de.tout

Yep.
Some of my FB friends, I see, are wondering the same thing I’ve seen mentioned here - what office is McChrystal going to run for?
Alternatively - it’s been suggested he has a job lined up as a commenter for Fox News.

I really hope not, I hope that he just had enough and decided to walk. His means were not the classiest, but I really hope he just wants to retire.

re: #189 SanFranciscoZionist

Read the article you posted.

I accepted your line about it, which is false, then I read it.

what is false?

re: #18 Nekama

The Brits are really taking it in the shorts financially. Obama didn’t help things, and unnecessarily personalized it, by referring to BP as “British Petroleum”.

Seemed to add insult to injury.

Jesus.
THIS again?

Back on topic for a second:

I wonder how long it will take before the blowback against the moratorium, as a result of the decreased drilling, will take to develop in our politics. Will it be by this November’s elections?

re: #176 Racer X

Two words:

Reverand…. .

Ah forget it.

If you’re talking about Wright - I recall personally being very concerned with that relationship. As it has played out, it does not appear to have been particularly important enough to Obama to keep it up, thank goodness IMO. But the concern certainly existed.

I’m having trouble, though, how you think these two things tie together.

re: #147 Reginald Perrin

Did you miss the part of my post where it said Ontario will close all coal fired plants by the year 2014?

How could I have missed it when I referred to it in my post?

re: #190 Fozzie Bear

You can’t be serious. Really? You forgot your sarc tags, or aren’t following this.

I’ve been reading Rolling Stones for decades.

re: #192 SanFranciscoZionist

I really hope not, I hope that he just had enough and decided to walk. His means were not the classiest, but I really hope he just wants to retire.

That’s actually kind of what I’m thinking has happened.
He’s overseeing an impossible situation; and wants out.

Look, I can name ten things I like about Obama. I do not hate the man. He makes mistakes just like we all do. I do enjoy pointing them out because he is a high profile politician.

I find the outrage over this incident very interesting though. The moment it appeared a General (*gasp*) may have mocked the president or his administration, man the outrage flew. Now I see it was a bunch of ‘unnamed aides’ making comments.

Yawn.

re: #195 freetoken

Back on topic for a second:

I wonder how long it will take before the blowback against the moratorium, as a result of the decreased drilling, will take to develop in our politics. Will it be by this November’s elections?

There will be some excuse concocted to explain the suddenly jump in unemployment that will result as a consequence of the moratorium. Combined with the end of the temporary Census jobs, it should get us back into double-digit unemployment by November, if not earlier. The GOP no doubt is salivating at the potential this has to turn the route they’re currently looking at into a massacre at the pols.

re: #195 freetoken

Back on topic for a second:

I wonder how long it will take before the blowback against the moratorium, as a result of the decreased drilling, will take to develop in our politics. Will it be by this November’s elections?

I doubt it. I suspect that outside the Gulf it is seen as the prudent thing to do.

re: #193 brookly red

what is false?

You were concern trolling, and got caught. Give it up. Find another issue that seems in a three word summary to be terribly nefarious, but in reality is just a dumb idea.

re: #202 garhighway

I doubt it. I suspect that outside the Gulf it is seen as the prudent thing to do.

You’re probably right.
Sadly.
Because it is not the prudent thing to do.
Ah well.

re: #160 Spare O’Lake

A long and bi-partisan line, one mutters to oneself.

re: #165 WindUpBird

So many awesome 40+ MPG cars we can’t get here mostly because of our stupidly draconian diesel standards. Canada can get a 70mpg diesel car, but not us!

Guys, why the downdings? WUB is right that the US laws on diesel don’t make sense anymore. If a car uses far less fuel, it can afford to put out some addition pollutants per gallons and still pollute less by using far fewer gallons.

re: #89 Spare O’Lake

America is simply no longer willing to fight to win. And much to Israel’s dismay, America will not allow Israel to fight to win either. It’s the new age of warfare…fighting to win a military victory is barbaric and forbidden.

Define winning.

What conditions should prevail in the losing state after the winning happens?

Wingnuts iz not need factses! We got Konstitution!

re: #200 Racer X

Look, I can name ten things I like about Obama. I do not hate the man. He makes mistakes just like we all do. I do enjoy pointing them out because he is a high profile politician.

I find the outrage over this incident very interesting though. The moment it appeared a General (*gasp*) may have mocked the president or his administration, man the outrage flew. Now I see it was a bunch of ‘unnamed aides’ making comments.

Yawn.

You stole my yawn.

re: #201 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

There will be some excuse concocted to explain the suddenly jump in unemployment that will result as a consequence of the moratorium. Combined with the end of the temporary Census jobs, it should get us back into double-digit unemployment by November, if not earlier. The GOP no doubt is salivating at the potential this has to turn the route they’re currently looking at into a massacre at the pols.

I doubt that whatever unemployment is attributable to those 25 rigs can be separated from the regional unemployment spike caused by the spill.

re: #185 Varek Raith

If you think Wright is fair game, then so is this. No?

Should we go there? Because everyone says Wright is off the table. I’m OK with that. But don’t be hypocritical about it.

Unnamed aides. Sheesh.

re: #195 freetoken

Back on topic for a second:

I wonder how long it will take before the blowback against the moratorium, as a result of the decreased drilling, will take to develop in our politics. Will it be by this November’s elections?

My guess is not until the 2012 elections, at least in terms of impact on the oil price.

The stupidity astounds.
G’nite, y’all

re: #188 WindUpBird

hahaha you are so deluded about this it boggles the mind. All those things he said to a national magazine with gigantic distribution all over the world, and OH NO THEY’D NEVER PRINT THAT! Not in Rolling Stone!

If he really believed RS wouldn’t print all that juicy stuff he said, then McChrystal should be relieved of duty for being mentally disabled.

Man, the soldier sniffing here sometimes, it really is amazing. A general can do no wrong, the president can do no right.

What did he actually say? One quote please.

re: #211 Racer X

Should we go there? Because everyone says Wright is off the table. I’m OK with that. But don’t be hypocritical about it.

Unnamed aides. Sheesh.

Why not?
It’s all bullshit in the end, anyway.

re: #88 brookly red

so bird, how do you justify 1 person being able to vote six times more than another person? Please I would love to hear the logic.

But that’s not the situation, each and every voter in that election get’s six votes to apportion as they wish, all on one ballot.

Just exactly how much of a rock stupid, dishonest little fool are you? I only ask because you’re setting the bar awfully fucking high with this one.

re: #200 Racer X

Look, I can name ten things I like about Obama. I do not hate the man. He makes mistakes just like we all do. I do enjoy pointing them out because he is a high profile politician.

I find the outrage over this incident very interesting though. The moment it appeared a General (*gasp*) may have mocked the president or his administration, man the outrage flew. Now I see it was a bunch of ‘unnamed aides’ making comments.

Yawn.

It’s the fact that not only did his aides run their mouths to RS with his (presumed) consent, but that they ran the second draft of the article by him and he asked for no changes. The man had to know this shit was going to blow up in his face, at the very least making him look like he can’t maintain control over his own staff. If RS published an article of White House aides recalling Obama badmouthing McChrystal and he had likewise allowed the article to go to print without revision, there would be calls right now by the GOP for his head on a platter by sundown tomorrow.

re: #203 Fozzie Bear

You were concern trolling, and got caught. Give it up. Find another issue that seems in a three word summary to be terribly nefarious, but in reality is just a dumb idea.

where you breath sucka, this is my state let alone my country and anything but 1 person 1 vote is questionable to me. ps bite me.

re: #193 brookly red

what is false?

It’s not ‘some people get to vote more than other people’, it’s a cumulative voting arrangement.

re: #196 reine.de.tout

If you’re talking about Wright - I recall personally being very concerned with that relationship. As it has played out, it does not appear to have been particularly important enough to Obama to keep it up, thank goodness IMO. But the concern certainly existed.

I’m having trouble, though, how you think these two things tie together.

Unnamed aides.

re: #165 WindUpBird

What exactly is wrong with that car and US standards?

re: #218 brookly red

where you breath sucka, this is my state let alone my country and anything but 1 person 1 vote is questionable to me. ps bite me.

ZOMG LIBRULS VOTED SIX TIMES!!!!///

re: #201 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

re: #202 garhighway

I doubt it. I suspect that outside the Gulf it is seen as the prudent thing to do.

Well, the increase in unemployment will be mostly a regional thing, and I don’t know if it will be large enough to affect the national numbers in a way that will be noticeable to the general public.

What I am thinking of is that time in the future when oil prices start to rise seriously, along with everything that depends on oil (such as gasoline.)

At that time some wily political hack will be able to put together a campaign that will directly link the rise of oil with the moratorium (even though such causes and effects are difficult to accurately attribute.)

re: #220 Racer X

Unnamed aides.

The general got to look at the draft before it was published. He declined to make any changes.

re: #188 WindUpBird

hahaha you are so deluded about this it boggles the mind. All those things he said to a national magazine with gigantic distribution all over the world, and OH NO THEY’D NEVER PRINT THAT! Not in Rolling Stone!

If he really believed RS wouldn’t print all that juicy stuff he said, then McChrystal should be relieved of duty for being mentally disabled.

Man, the soldier sniffing here sometimes, it really is amazing. A general can do no wrong, the president can do no right.

Once again a hysterical post that is nearly illegible and makes no real point other than to call your target stupid.

re: #167 Bagua

No, the stunt is by Rolling Stone. They gained his confidence and did a hit job. No wonder he fired his PR staff. He got hoodwinked.

1st time, but I knew it would happen. Blame Rolling Stone.

re: #39 Racer X

Because in the earlier thread people were just bashing the shit outta the guy. CNN was talking about a court martial. For what in particular? Not blindly loving Obama and everyone in his administration?

How about undermining the morale of the troops in the middle of a fucking war? Insubordination? Take your pick. He used “poor judgment” as the President said.

I don’t care if he resigns or gets the ax. If the President still has confidence in him to get the job done then so be it. If not, he should go.

re: #215 Varek Raith

Why not?
It’s all bullshit in the end, anyway.

Bingo!

I agree with you. It is all bullshit. Wright was bullshit; unnamed aides is bullshit.

I’m going to sing off now. Sleep well, all.

re: #229 Dark_Falcon

I’m going to sing off now. Sleep well, all.

YOU SING?!?!
:)
Nigth, DF.

re: #210 garhighway

I doubt that whatever unemployment is attributable to those 25 rigs can be separated from the regional unemployment spike caused by the spill.

33 rigs.

Plus support services.

Plus other services, catering, restaurants, hotels, transportation services like helicopters, supply services like boats (2 a day per rig, usually).

Approx 16% of Louisiana household earnings.

All the rigs except Deepwater Horizon could be working right now.
But they aren’t, and won’t be for several years if this moratorium goes on.

BTW - the panel that’s been commissioned to study this isn’t set to meet until next month sometime, for the first time, and it appears they plan to have a report completed in a year’s time. Will the moratorium be extended? It would seem so, since that panel is the group that’s supposed to make the recommendations on how to prevent these things.

re: #228 Racer X

Bingo!

I agree with you. It is all bullshit. Wright was bullshit; unnamed aides is bullshit.

I like playing both sides.
It’s fun.
:)

re: #216 goddamnedfrank

But that’s not the situation, each and every voter in that election get’s six votes to apportion as they wish, all on one ballot.

Just exactly how much of a rock stupid, dishonest little fool are you? I only ask because you’re setting the bar awfully fucking high with this one.

really so then why did they do it? why not 10 each? I am suspicious with anything other than 1 for 1 … if I am wrong so be it but something seems odd about this.

Apparently, cumulative voting = voter fraud, and generals aren’t responsible for their men.

It’s upside down world, apparently.

re: #224 Varek Raith

The general got to look at the draft before it was published. He declined to make any changes.

And?

re: #222 Fozzie Bear

ZOMG LIBRULS VOTED SIX TIMES!!!///

no that was acorn, be we have dealt with that already…

re: #226 Stanley Sea

1st time, but I knew it would happen. Blame Rolling Stone.

Blame for what? It’s a nontroversy.

re: #235 Racer X

And?

And nothing!
Silly.

re: #236 brookly red

Ahh yes, so registrations = votes too.

The stupid, it burns. G’night all, I can’t take any more dumb today.

What happened to Macarther?

re: #218 brookly red

where you breath sucka, this is my state let alone my country and anything but 1 person 1 vote is questionable to me. ps bite me.

Why? Explain why you think a system in which EACH VOTER gets six votes to apportion is ‘questionable’. Bear in mind that you initially presented this as some voters being given more votes than others, which appears to be entirely false, unless there is some detail of the story I have not seen.

re: #222 Fozzie Bear

ZOMG LIBRULS VOTED SIX TIMES!!!///

ACORN stole the election!!11ty

/

re: #235 Racer X

And?

And the general had to have known that this shit would blow up in his face. At best, it makes him look incompetent, at worst it makes him looking like he’s trying to “martyr” himself. That he’s hoping that Obama will forced him to resign so that he can plow the goodwill from the ODS crowd into commercial and potentially political success.

re: #219 SanFranciscoZionist

It’s not ‘some people get to vote more than other people’, it’s a cumulative voting arrangement.

I trust your judgement but if it did not change the outcome then what was the point? be honest.

re: #182 Spare O’Lake

That’s not what I implied at all, Stunley. If Obama lacks the balls to accept his resignation, it will be because Obama believes that getting rid of McChrystal will not be politically expedient. So it would be Obama gaming the US electorate, as usual.

And, Stunley, as a Canadian I want a strong and successful America. Canada is America’s largest trading partner and staunchest ally.

NAFTA!

re: #244 brookly red

I trust your judgement but if it did not change the outcome then what was the point? be honest.

You don’t have to trust his judgement. You just have to read the article you posted.

re: #231 reine.de.tout

33 rigs.

Plus support services.

Plus other services, catering, restaurants, hotels, transportation services like helicopters, supply services like boats (2 a day per rig, usually).

Approx 16% of Louisiana household earnings.

All the rigs except Deepwater Horizon could be working right now.
But they aren’t, and won’t be for several years if this moratorium goes on.

BTW - the panel that’s been commissioned to study this isn’t set to meet until next month sometime, for the first time, and it appears they plan to have a report completed in a year’s time. Will the moratorium be extended? It would seem so, since that panel is the group that’s supposed to make the recommendations on how to prevent these things.

Actually the rigs will soon be working, but in Brazil and elsewhere outside of the US. There will also be a similar number of people employed, but they will be Brazilian jobs, not American.

The US jobs and all the support jobs will be gone.