Little darling,
I feel that ice is slowly melting.
Little darling,
It seems like years since it’s been clear.
Here comes the sun
Here comes the sun
And I say
It’s all right.
— George Harrison
2 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Aug 24, 2010 10:46:56pm |
A nice, harmlessly fun song. Not the Beetles' best, but still far better than most bands that attain success will ever manage.
| 3 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Aug 24, 2010 10:48:21pm |
re: #2 Dark_Falcon
A nice, harmlessly fun song. Not the Beetles' best, but still far better than most bands that attain success will ever manage.
I was never a big Beatles fan growing up....... I appreciate them more now.
| 4 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Aug 24, 2010 10:55:10pm |
What would be a defining song for the Beatles? I know that is a hard question...... I'd say "A Day in the Life"
| 6 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Aug 24, 2010 11:05:22pm |
I'm gonna sign off for the night. Sleep well, all.
| 7 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Aug 24, 2010 11:05:44pm |
| 8 |
freetoken Tue, Aug 24, 2010 11:08:49pm |
In Alaska, Palin fav and wingnut Joe Miller is leading incumbent Sen. Murkowski by 1300 votes:
[Link: www.elections.alaska.gov...]
Miller is a Constitutional literalist, hard SoCon. He's ideologically similar to the Constitution Party, but no doubt runs as an (R) in order to have a chance at getting elected.
| 9 |
Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Aug 24, 2010 11:10:17pm |
The Eric Idle version of that song from an old 70's SNL:
[Link: rutube.ru...]
| 10 |
Nick Schroeder Tue, Aug 24, 2010 11:13:26pm |
re: #8 freetoken
In Alaska, Palin fav and wingnut Joe Miller is leading incumbent Sen. Murkowski by 1300 votes:
[Link: www.elections.alaska.gov...]
Miller is a Constitutional literalist, hard SoCon. He's ideologically similar to the Constitution Party, but no doubt runs as an (R) in order to have a chance at getting elected.
Ahh, the lovable 'Constitution Party'. My poor father voted for their Presidential candidate in 2004 because he 'votes third party'. My dad isn't even religious and had no idea what their platform was. I didn't have the heart to tell him that they basically want to scrap the Constitution and replace it with The Bible. I decided at that point that it was a pretty good idea to never talk politics with my dad.
| 11 |
elbruce Tue, Aug 24, 2010 11:13:55pm |
re: #8 freetoken
In Alaska, Palin fav and wingnut Joe Miller is leading incumbent Sen. Murkowski by 1300 votes:
[Link: www.elections.alaska.gov...]
Miller is a Constitutional literalist, hard SoCon. He's ideologically similar to the Constitution Party, but no doubt runs as an (R) in order to have a chance at getting elected.
Yikes. That's only of 39.3% precincts reporting, so hopefully it'll come around.
Doesn't Palin usually support women?
| 12 |
freetoken Tue, Aug 24, 2010 11:17:01pm |
re: #11 elbruce
Doesn't Palin usually support women?
That seems to be the case where the woman is a fresh face.
Murkowski has been around, though, and is part of Alaska's famous political dynasty, and is not a Palin-ite herself.
Miller is the male Sarah Palin, so to speak. He's done well as a big fish in a small pond, but for those of us outside of that pond his views are, shall we say, a bit provincial.
| 13 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Aug 25, 2010 12:21:21am |
[Link: www.afilmunfinished.com...]
[Link: www.pbs.org...]
| 14 |
Ojoe Wed, Aug 25, 2010 1:09:21am |
Down with the MoFo morons who tanked the economy.
I am going to pull all the "R" levers this november just on the forlorn hope that it will turn the economy around with some "hope" and an atmosphere of "change."
Yes I know there are whack jobs in the "R" party.
But Instead of designing buildings and helping employ construction crews, I now have a job driving food bank trucks to help feed them while they are idle.
This is no good.
Watch out politicians, I'm coming for you, and so are many millions of others.
| 15 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Aug 25, 2010 1:13:55am |
re: #14 Ojoe
There is some room for debate about who tanked the economy.
Granted, Clinton laid the foundations by repealing the Glass-Seagall Act, which separated morgage and investment banking, but I believe the true damage to the economy was done in the course of the great deregulation frenzy under Bush.
| 16 |
Ojoe Wed, Aug 25, 2010 1:21:56am |
re: #15 ralphieboy
I agree with you that plenty of both flavors are responsible for tanking the economy. I will be using the november elections as an indiscriminate way to shock the political class as a whole.
F 'em all.
| 18 |
freetoken Wed, Aug 25, 2010 1:59:44am |
Well, with 3/4th of the precincts counted Miller now leads by 3000 in Alaska.
If he should win the nomination he'll probably be elected in the fall, unless his (D) opposition can uncover some real dirt.
| 19 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Aug 25, 2010 2:00:25am |
Fates Warning doing Dio-era Sabbath
| 20 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Aug 25, 2010 2:07:54am |
re: #14 Ojoe
Down with the MoFo morons who tanked the economy.
I am going to pull all the "R" levers this november just on the forlorn hope that it will turn the economy around with some "hope" and an atmosphere of "change."
Yes I know there are whack jobs in the "R" party.
But Instead of designing buildings and helping employ construction crews, I now have a job driving food bank trucks to help feed them while they are idle.
This is no good.
Watch out politicians, I'm coming for you, and so are many millions of others.
So basically how exactly does voting for Republicans "screw" anyone? when it was deregulation of the credit and housing markets of a period of many years that created the housing bubble which then popped and nearly destroyed our entire financial system, and created the shutdown of lending that screwed up the economy in the first place?
The guys who did this, they're not in office, they're not politicians, they're investors and fraudsters and financial lords that are living high on the hog with your money.
And the lesson you've learned from all this is more deregulation? because when I think of Republicans I think of guys who are really big into regulation.
| 21 |
Nimed Wed, Aug 25, 2010 2:39:05am |
re: #20 WindUpBird
things are bad => vote for the guys who aren't in office.
Most people will stick to this formula in November.
| 22 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:08:25am |
re: #21 Nimed
things are bad => vote for the guys who aren't in office.
Most people will stick to this formula in November.
Which leads to the situation we find ourselves in , that the party not in power blocks all reforms so things don't get better, which they see as improving thier chances of getting back into power and have their reforms blocked by the party trying to get back into power again...
| 23 |
freetoken Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:16:14am |
re: #21 Nimed
things are bad => vote for the guys who aren't in office.
Most people will stick to this formula in November.
Which explains why Miller is currently up by 2994 votes over one of the more famous families in Alaskan politics.
| 24 |
Okami Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:21:22am |
The problem with voting for the party out of power to "send a message" that you're unhappy with the current political system, is that they'll never hear it. As soon as the out party gets back in, they assume it's because the tide of the country has turned in favor of them and support their policies. The Republicans interpret your hatred of incumbents as a mandate to cut taxes on the rich and deregulate everything they didn't manage to under Bush.
| 25 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:43:10am |
re: #24 Okami
Combine that with my comments in #22 and you have US politics in a nutshell...
| 26 |
freetoken Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:43:37am |
The Alaska SoS says they're counting votes, but the tally hasn't changed in several hours. So, sometime before noon I guess we'll know if Joe Miller succeeds.
Joe Miller - the guy who thinks unemployment compensation is unconstitutional, the guy who believes the federal government can't regulate health care because that would be unconstitutional, and so forth.
Here he was on national TV a while back - he starts in about the middle of the video:
Yeah, that guy, the guy who assures us those well armed wackos marching there in his campaign parade are just normal Alaskans.
The guy who on Sarah Palin radio:
proudly trumpets the endorsement of this group:
[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com...]
Joe Miller, who thinks abortion should be illegal for rape victims
Yeah, that Joe Miller.
| 27 |
Randall Gross Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:49:24am |
Charles:
One of your advertisers is blowing up your CSS periodically, I think it's "Mormon.org" but cannot be certain. Every tenth or fifteenth page load or so I get the mast and the first post fine, however the rest of the posts are green background and the side bars get shifted down to page bottom.
| 28 |
Randall Gross Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:51:14am |
re: #26 freetoken
The Alaska SoS says they're counting votes, but the tally hasn't changed in several hours. So, sometime before noon I guess we'll know if Joe Miller succeeds.
Joe Miller - the guy who thinks unemployment compensation is unconstitutional, the guy who believes the federal government can't regulate health care because that would be unconstitutional, and so forth.
Here he was on national TV a while back - he starts in about the middle of the video:
[Video]proudly trumpets the endorsement of this group:[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com...]
Joe Miller, who thinks abortion should be illegal for rape victims
Yeah, that Joe Miller.
Absentee ballots will be coming in through the 8th, and there will be a recount - we might be three weeks out from actually knowing since absentees will likely favor Murkowski.
| 30 |
freetoken Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:57:35am |
re: #27 Thanos
Ditto here. I was wondering what was doing it. I'm using the latest version of Safari.
| 31 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:57:40am |
| 32 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Aug 25, 2010 3:58:44am |
re: #14 Ojoe
I'm just pulling any lever that isn't filled by an incumbent.
| 33 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:02:19am |
Classic P.J. O'Rourke from researchok in Pages:
As all good reporters do, I prepared for my assignment with extensive research. I went to an Afghan restaurant in Prague.
SNIP
| 34 |
RogueOne Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:23:49am |
"We thank President Barack Obama and Secretary of Education Arnie Duncan for coming up with the Race to the cock top concept and for standing by it even though it was criticized all over." -- NY Gov. Paterson
Morning Joe just played that clip. I snorted hot coffee up my nose. Morning All!
| 35 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:36:40am |
re: #34 RogueOne
Why do you hate blind people?
| 36 |
RogueOne Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:42:43am |
re: #35 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Why do you hate blind people?
I think he confused the program with a party game at he and his wifes summer jamboree.
| 38 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:44:57am |
re: #36 RogueOne
I totally admired him for admitting it.
"Yeah, I smoked some pot. I drank the fucking bong water. What does that have to do with anything!?"
-Dennis Miller
Well... I think it was Dennis Miller. Mebbe Denis Leary.
| 39 |
RogueOne Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:46:45am |
I'm sure this will end well:
Pastor says armed militia to protect church during Quran-burning event
[Link: www.cnn.com...]
An armed Christian organization, Right Wing Extreme, will protect a church that is planning to host an "International Burn a Quran Day" on September 11, the church's pastor said Tuesday.The Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Florida, says it is hosting the event to remember 9/11 victims and to take a stand against Islam. With promotions on its website and Facebook page, the nondenominational church invites Christians to burn the Muslim holy book.
| 40 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:48:10am |
re: #39 RogueOne
Well... that's peaceful.
Nice name selection there. Perhaps you should get the Governor of New York to give you guys a new name.
| 42 |
RogueOne Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:50:11am |
Why the hell is everyone pounding on John McCain? Are people really so stupid they didn't understand he's a politician? Everything he's done over the last 3 decades has been wrapped up with getting his ass re-elected. The tv talking heads are acting all shocked, SHOCKED!, to find all this out.
BTW, just a friendly reminder that I said he'd beat Hayworth by 20 to 30 pts.
| 43 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:51:53am |
re: #42 RogueOne
You said that? Good call, then. I thought he'd be in for the fight of his life.
Then I remembered, it's John McCain. He's been through so much hell, he could be a tour guide in hell (Yes, Sam, I stole your line).
| 44 |
RogueOne Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:53:08am |
re: #43 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
You said that? Good call, then. I thought he'd be in for the fight of his life.
Then I remembered, it's John McCain. He's been through so much hell, he could be a tour guide in hell (Yes, Sam, I stole your line).
Hayworth is a tool, a well tanned tool. He never stood a chance.
NJ gov. Christie is going to be on Morning Joe.
| 45 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:54:16am |
Morning Lizardim. I have to admit I was a bit depressed to see the picture, up a couple of threads, of an English neo-Nazi white supremacist dickhead with a tattooed swastika (from the English Defense League post). Churchill must be spinning in his grave.
| 46 |
M. Dubious Wed, Aug 25, 2010 4:58:08am |
re: #4 Mr Pancakes
Probably not their best effort, but my personal favourite.
Their best album by far is Revolver, a strange bastard thing somewhere between their early stuff and Sgt. Pepper.
| 47 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:00:07am |
re: #46 harald
Revolver was (IIRC) the number one album of the Rock era by Rolling Stone Magazine a few years back.
| 48 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:00:21am |
Here are my picks for November:
Alex Sink, gubner
Not sure about the Senate yet
Pam Bondi: Attorney General. She is a shark
| 49 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:01:12am |
re: #47 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Oops... Sgt. Peppers #1... Revolver #3.
| 50 |
researchok Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:05:44am |
re: #33 MandyManners
Classic P.J. O'Rourke from researchok in Pages:
SNIP
I can solve the Mexican border crisis- I had tacos in Nueva Laredo.
| 51 |
M. Dubious Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:06:32am |
re: #49 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Sgt. Pepper is brilliant, but overrated. It gets way too much credit due to that album cover.
| 52 |
RogueOne Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:07:39am |
re: #48 Cannadian Club Akbar
Here are my picks for November:
Alex Sink, gubner
Not sure about the Senate yet
Pam Bondi: Attorney General. She is a shark
Do you think the banker has a chance? Wasn't repub turnout almost 2x the dem turnout yesterday?
| 53 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:12:14am |
re: #51 harald
I love the "top" lists... What a pleasant way to start an argument.
"Pet Sounds"? Number 2 according to Rolling Stone.
| 54 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:12:16am |
re: #52 RogueOne
Do you think the banker has a chance? Wasn't repub turnout almost 2x the dem turnout yesterday?
Not sure about the turnout. Sink is CFO right now and Rick Scott is a douche.
| 55 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:12:56am |
This is my new favorite music video
prepare to be smiled at in what is really a threatening and disquieting manner
| 56 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:14:09am |
re: #55 WindUpBird
Gosh, I hate smiling for the camera....
| 58 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:15:31am |
Man, my radio is letting people make comments on things. And don't get me wrong, I love the first amendment, but people are stoopid.
| 59 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:17:53am |
re: #58 Cannadian Club Akbar
Man, my radio is letting people make comments on things. And don't get me wrong, I love the first amendment, but people are stoopid.
A sucker born every minute and all that.
| 60 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:20:25am |
re: #39 RogueOne
I'm sure this will end well:
Pastor says armed militia to protect church during Quran-burning event
[Link: www.cnn.com...]
It could get very ugly before it ends...
Islamic Radicals Threaten Suicide Bombings Against Gainesville Church
A Gainesville church plans to go ahead with the burning of the Muslim holy book on Sept. 11, despite threats of bombings and the lack of a permit.
According to the Wall Street Journal, Terry Jones, pastor at the Dove World Outreach Center will call for Sept. 11 to be an "International Burn a Koran Day."
However, the Gainesville fire department has denied a permit for the event.
One jihadist website vowed to conduct suicide bombings in Florida to avenge the Koran burning, while others predicted an increase in terrorist recruits as a result of such actions.
"By Allah, the wars are heated and you Americans are the ones who...enflamed it," says one such posting. "By Allah you will be the first to taste its flames."
| 61 |
Ericus58 Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:21:45am |
re: #55 WindUpBird
This is my new favorite music video
[Video]prepare to be smiled at in what is really a threatening and disquieting manner
why do I have this feeling that they want to eat my liver?!?!
WUB, have you had any sleep as yet since I logged off last night? If not, then you might want to reflect on that as evidence by that video ;)
| 62 |
RogueOne Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:24:39am |
Everytime I hear a politician/politico say something similar to "the taliban is going to hate us because we don't want a mosque near ground zero" I want to choke someone. Tom Friedman and Scarborough both just said it.
| 63 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:25:31am |
re: #62 RogueOne
Everytime I hear a politician/politico say something similar to "the taliban is going to hate us because we don't want a mosque near ground zero" I want to choke someone. Tom Friedman and Scarborough both just said it.
The Taliban doesn't hate us yet?
| 64 |
RogueOne Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:26:06am |
BTW, at this point I'm at the same place as I was during the HCR debate. One way or the other I want it over with and for people on both sides to shut the hell up.
| 65 |
garhighway Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:28:02am |
re: #14 Ojoe
Down with the MoFo morons who tanked the economy.
I am going to pull all the "R" levers this november just on the forlorn hope that it will turn the economy around with some "hope" and an atmosphere of "change."
Yes I know there are whack jobs in the "R" party.
But Instead of designing buildings and helping employ construction crews, I now have a job driving food bank trucks to help feed them while they are idle.
This is no good.
Watch out politicians, I'm coming for you, and so are many millions of others.
You are aiming at the wrong target.
The hole we are trying to get out of was dug by the financial services industry in 2004 - 2007.
You want to shoot at someone, shoot at them.
| 66 |
RogueOne Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:29:18am |
re: #64 RogueOne
All they've talked about for weeks on Morning Joe is the mosque debate. I'm so tired of the argument. "Rauf is a nazi, there are strippers down the street!, 1st amendment right to build whatever wherever, Hallowed ground!, there's a mosque in the pentagon!" over and over and over......
| 67 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:30:06am |
re: #65 garhighway
Can't shoot at history. Can only snipe at history.
I ain't voting for an incumbent. The first time (since John Anderson) that I've pulled a lever without an (R) behind it.
And I've voting against a guy I like.
| 68 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:30:58am |
re: #67 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Can't shoot at history. Can only snipe at history.
I ain't voting for an incumbent. The first time (since John Anderson) that I've pulled a lever without an (R) behind it.
And I've voting against a guy I like.
I'm voting Dem for the first time since 1992.
| 69 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:31:21am |
New Jersey family robbed in Wisconsin.
| 70 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:32:21am |
re: #66 RogueOne
Well, there is a Mosque at the Pentagon. So why do you have a problem with...
| 71 |
RogueOne Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:32:22am |
re: #68 Cannadian Club Akbar
I'm voting Dem for the first time since 1992.
You picked a hell of an election cycle. You and the guy on your radio are going to be the only ones this year.
Go with a winner, vote libertarian./
| 72 |
researchok Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:33:00am |
re: #67 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Can't shoot at history. Can only snipe at history.
I ain't voting for an incumbent. The first time (since John Anderson) that I've pulled a lever without an (R) behind it.
And I've voting against a guy I like.
Mood of the country. You aren't alone.
| 73 |
RogueOne Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:34:00am |
re: #72 researchok
Mood of the country. You aren't alone.
My incumbent isn't even going to have a primary challenger and will be a 30pt winner in the general election. he's a dork but he's safer than safe.
| 74 |
garhighway Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:34:03am |
re: #67 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Can't shoot at history. Can only snipe at history.
I ain't voting for an incumbent. The first time (since John Anderson) that I've pulled a lever without an (R) behind it.
And I've voting against a guy I like.
I would respectfully suggest that using an "incumbent/not an incumbent" decision set will lead you to poor choices.
Better to contemplate root causes, and figure out which candidate would better address those, or at least, didn't substantially contribute to the original root cause.
| 75 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:34:15am |
re: #71 RogueOne
You picked a hell of an election cycle. You and the guy on your radio are going to be the only ones this year.
Go with a winner, vote libertarian./
Just voting for a Dem for gubner. Pam Bondi (AG) is a Repub. And like I said, still not sure about the Senate race.
| 76 |
RogueOne Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:35:23am |
re: #74 garhighway
I would respectfully suggest that using an "incumbent/not an incumbent" decision set will lead you to poor choices.
Better to contemplate root causes, and figure out which candidate would better address those, or at least, didn't substantially contribute to the original root cause.
9.5% unemployment and making the bush spending deficit look frugal....
| 77 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:37:09am |
re: #74 garhighway
You are absolutely right. But, I can't get my rational side to listen.
| 78 |
garhighway Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:38:06am |
re: #76 RogueOne
9.5% unemployment and making the bush spending deficit look frugal...
Swing and a miss.
| 79 |
RogueOne Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:38:34am |
re: #77 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
You are absolutely right. But, I can't get my rational side to listen.
Down with The Man!
| 80 |
garhighway Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:38:43am |
re: #77 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
You are absolutely right. But, I can't get my rational side to listen.
I get that.
Sometimes the lizard brain gets to drive the bus.
| 81 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:40:33am |
Fuck, I keep getting booted. Someone is gonna pay.
/
| 82 |
RogueOne Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:41:16am |
re: #78 garhighway
Swing and a miss.
ok, how about housing sales in the crapper thanks to a dumb government program, Bailouts, TARP, a stimulus program that hasn't done anything other than add to the debt and dems in control of the house since 2006? Getting closer yet?
| 84 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:46:31am |
re: #82 RogueOne
ok, how about housing sales in the crapper thanks to a dumb government program, Bailouts, TARP, a stimulus program that hasn't done anything other than add to the debt and dems in control of the house since 2006? Getting closer yet?
All is fine.
[Link: finance.yahoo.com...]
| 85 |
garhighway Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:51:50am |
re: #82 RogueOne
ok, how about housing sales in the crapper thanks to a dumb government program, Bailouts, TARP, a stimulus program that hasn't done anything other than add to the debt and dems in control of the house since 2006? Getting closer yet?
Ah, facts we can talk about! Much better.
Housing sales in the crapper? Could it be that oversupply and job losses have something to do with that? And the expiration of the tax credit? The last analysis I saw on housing starts (not sales, I know, but still useful) is that they will not recover to pre-08 values throughout this recovery no matter what we do. There is structural oversupply in that market from the lending crisis that needs to burn off.
Bailouts? Yes, there were some. Explain to me how the economy would be better right now if one or more of them had not been done. Pick any particular one and we can talk about it.
TARP? In retrospect, probably not the best tactical response to where we were in the fall of 2008, but I give Bernanke, Paulson and Geitner credit: it did what it was supposed to. It prevented the complete collapse of the western economic system. And make no mistake, that is what we were looking at. I think Paulson screwed up on Lehman, but so what: that is quibbling. And I think, that by the time they close the books on it, that TARP will have made money. But what in particular about TARP didn't you like? How much economic pain would you have been willing to suffer in the name of ideological purity? (And by the way, this makes it clear that this isn't, for me, Ds vs Rs. TARP was done by the Bush economic team. They were being firefighters and they put out the fire.)
Stimulus? The numbers I've seen say it added jobs. If you want, I'll report what I said last night regarding monetary and fiscal policy in the midst of the 2008 collapse, but the short version is that 2009 - 2010 are the exact wrong time to get serious about the deficit. Unless you like this recession and want to see it deepen.
| 86 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:53:07am |
re: #84 Cannadian Club Akbar
"Don't look into the comments Egon."
"I looked into the comments, Ray."
| 87 |
lazardo Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:54:29am |
I don't normally pay attention to Hollywood political opinion, but in this case, I might make an exception.
Also good evening.
| 88 |
Spare O'Lake Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:55:54am |
Willing partner for peace alert:
Palestinian sources: PA forced to attend negotiations
By JPOST.COM STAFF
08/25/2010 15:42
The Americans are forcing Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to attend new negotiations, senior sources within the PA claimed, Israel Radio reported on Wednesday. According to the sources, the US threatened to stop all financial assistance to the Palestinians should Abbas refuse to renew negotiations with Israel.
These sources said that the Obama administration also threatened other governments which contribute funds to the PA, with the aim of stopping all aid to the authority in the event that the PA fails to enter talks.
[Link: www.jpost.com...]
These fuckers look for cover for even saying the name of Israel.
| 89 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 5:56:13am |
re: #87 lazardo
I don't normally pay attention to Hollywood political opinion, but in this case, I might make an exception.
Also good evening.
Brad Pitt is a little douche.
| 93 |
Ericus58 Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:00:42am |
re: #88 Spare O'Lake
Willing partner for peace alert:
These fuckers look for cover for even saying the name of Israel.
Good on the Administration. Make them toe the line.
| 94 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:01:02am |
| 95 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:01:20am |
Well isn't this lovely...
Amnesty Int'l Finland: Israel scum state
BERLIN – The head of Amnesty International’s Finnish branch, Frank Johansson, told The Jerusalem Post on Tuesday that he stands by his statement that Israel is a “scum state.”
Writing in his blog, which appears on the Web site of Finland’s third largest newspaper Iltalehti, Johansson wrote on Monday that “A friend of mine who works in Israel was visiting [and] while piling wood in the shed, we got to [talking about] his favourite topic. [After] several years of residence in the Holy Land, he has come to the conclusion that ‘Israel is a scum state.’ Based on my own visit[s], which occurred during the 1970s and for the last time in the 1990s, I agree.”
An English translation of Johansson’s blog first appeared Tuesday on the Web site Tundra Tabloids, a pro-Israel blog that monitors anti-Israeli sentiments in the Finnish media and blogosphere.
Speaking from Finland, Kenneth Sikorski, who runs the Web site and picked up Johansson’s remarks, told The Jerusalem Post that Johansson’s comments are “absolutely atrocious and indicative of a problem of systematic anti-Semitism.”
Asked why he termed Israel a “scum state,” Johansson told the Post in a telephone interview that it was because Israel has “repeatedly flouted international law,” and due to his “personal experiences inside and outside of Israel with meeting Israelis.”
| 97 |
Gus Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:02:17am |
re: #94 Cannadian Club Akbar
I remember when Florida had a sun.
/
The sun will soon flame out and then there won't be any sun and all the humans will die!!11ty
//
| 98 |
Gus Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:02:51am |
re: #96 lazardo
Same from quiet, peaceful Manila.
///
What was the deal with that cop that flipped out?
| 99 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:03:24am |
re: #97 Gus 802
The sun will soon flame out and then there won't be any sun and all the humans will die!!11ty
//
But I planned on global warming. This sucks.
//
| 100 |
lazardo Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:03:27am |
re: #97 Gus 802
The sun will soon flame out and then there won't be any sun and all the humans will die!!11ty
//
| 101 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:04:37am |
re: #97 Gus 802
The sun will soon flame out and then there won't be any sun and all the humans will die!!11ty
//
It's scheduled to happen in 2012!
| 102 |
Gus Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:04:48am |
re: #99 Cannadian Club Akbar
But I planned on global warming. This sucks.
//
I lost a lot of money on Swine Flu and Africanized killer bees.
//
| 103 |
lazardo Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:05:27am |
re: #98 Gus 802
What was the deal with that cop that flipped out?
He had been sacked over allegations that he and his buddies tried to frame a chef for possession. This involved forcing the poor guy to swallow a bag of meth.
| 104 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:06:11am |
re: #102 Gus 802
I lost a lot of money on Swine Flu and Africanized killer bees.
//
I milked a couple of those bees. Not much there.
/
| 105 |
researchok Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:06:39am |
re: #95 NJDhockeyfan
I'll bet Johansson has no problem with any repressive regimes whatsoever- at leat not problems big enough to refer to them as 'scum'.
| 106 |
Spare O'Lake Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:06:50am |
re: #95 NJDhockeyfan
Well isn't this lovely...
Amnesty Int'l Finland: Israel scum state
Not everyone who hates Israel's very existence is a raving anti-Semite, but it sure helps.
| 107 |
Gus Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:07:07am |
re: #103 lazardo
He had been sacked over allegations that he and his buddies tried to frame a chef for possession. This involved forcing the poor guy to swallow a bag of meth.
What in hell? This all started because of a chef they tried to frame? I bet he wast nuts at the age of 4.
| 108 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:09:21am |
The shitheads at Stormfront aren't going to be happy about this news...
'DNA shows Hitler of mixed race'
Adolf Hitler could be a descendant of both Jews and Africans, according to DNA tests cited by Belgian news magazine, Knack last week.
Samples that were taken from the Nazi leader's relatives show that he is biologically linked to the races he wanted to exterminate, the report claimed.
Heh.
| 109 |
Spare O'Lake Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:10:21am |
re: #93 Ericus58
Good on the Administration. Make them toe the line.
Yes, good on Obama...IF the Pali source is being accurate. Don't forget that they lie like rugs and that their concept of victimhood precludes any rational characterization of what they really mean by being "forced".
| 110 |
lazardo Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:10:38am |
re: #107 Gus 802
That was back in '06ish, he got fired in 2008. Needless to say, these stories are rife within our so-called Finest. He probably went nuts because our courts finally assed themselves to do something about it.
The scary thing is that if one guy with an assault rifle can get the REST of the police force all confused, what could a squad of terrorists do?
| 111 |
brownbagj Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:12:42am |
re: #108 NJDhockeyfan
Yes, this has been guessed for some time. Hitler had a whole team of people working 24x7 to keep his true bloodline a secret.
"I am getting verklempt. Hitler was neither blond haired nor blue eyed, discuss."
| 112 |
Gus Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:13:21am |
re: #110 lazardo
That was back in '06ish, he got fired in 2008. Needless to say, these stories are rife within our so-called Finest. He probably went nuts because our courts finally assed themselves to do something about it.
The scary thing is that if one guy with an assault rifle can get the REST of the police force all confused, what could a squad of terrorists do?
Yeah. But no one expects a cop to do something like that so it tends to come as a surprise. Unlike terrorists or criminals were you expect this sort of thing to happen. So people, naturally, would have their guard down. Not much one can do about the randomness of human behavior regardless of the person.
| 113 |
Spare O'Lake Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:14:32am |
re: #108 NJDhockeyfan
The shitheads at Stormfront aren't going to be happy about this news...
'DNA shows Hitler of mixed race'
Heh.
Steve McQueen is Jewish, would you believe it?
Sean Connery and Lyndon Johnson too,
'Cause when you're in love, the whole world is Jewish,
Since I fell in love with you.
| 114 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:15:33am |
re: #111 brownbagj
Yes, this has been guessed for some time. Hitler had a whole team of people working 24x7 to keep his true bloodline a secret.
"I am getting verklempt. Hitler was neither blond haired nor blue eyed, discuss."
[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]
| 115 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:15:37am |
Tense calm in Beirut after violent clashes
BEIRUT, Lebanon, Aug. 25 (UPI) -- A fragile calm prevailed in Beirut Wednesday following deadly clashes that erupted between members of Hezbollah and a Sunni faction.
After the Lebanese Army intervened to restore calm, supporters of the Shiite Hezbollah and the Sunni al-Ahbash faction issued a statement calling the violence an isolated and regretful incident, the Ya Libnan Web site said.
Fighting started Tuesday night in the Burj Abu Haidar neighborhood in downtown Beirut and included rocket propelled grenades and automatic weapons, the site said.
The report said a Chevrolet containing four Hezbollah operatives entered the mixed Sunni-Shiite neighborhood in the Lebanese capital and the passengers opened fire. The situation quickly escalated, and the Sunnis fired back at the vehicle.
| 116 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:16:34am |
re: #114 Cannadian Club Akbar
Oops. I was away for a minute. My bad.
| 117 |
lazardo Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:16:45am |
re: #112 Gus 802
Still, the incident showed that our police force isn't exactly competent when it came to responding to something like this. Maybe they couldn't have sniped him through the window because the only good angle for quite a distance happens to be across Luneta Park.
But they took so long just to get into the bus from the time they stacked up around it that until they'd actually gotten in I was pretty sure he'd offed himself as most of these postal crazies tend to do.
| 118 |
researchok Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:19:01am |
re: #106 Spare O'Lake
Not everyone who hates Israel's very existence is a raving anti-Semite, but it sure helps.
I disagree vehemently. Hating Israel's existence is anti semitic, period.
Disagreeing or hating Israeli policies is another thing altogether.
Israel does not only have the right to exist, she has the obligation to exist, as does every free state. What she has done as a nation in a thousand ways to better mankind obliges her to continue and not submit to those who would subvert her.
| 119 |
lazardo Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:19:09am |
re: #113 Spare O'Lake
Steve McQueen is Jewish, would you believe it?
Sean Connery and Lyndon Johnson too,
'Cause when you're in love, the whole world is Jewish,
Since I fell in love with you.
Back when the Jews ran the entertainment industry, the music and movies were good. The new Scientology management has produced nothing but skanks and mutants.
| 120 |
Winny Spencer Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:20:27am |
re: #108 NJDhockeyfan
"Race! It is a feeling, not a reality: ninety-five percent, at least, is a feeling. Nothing will ever make me believe that biologically pure races can be shown to exist today." - Benito Mussolini
| 121 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:20:36am |
re: #119 lazardo
Back when the Jews ran the entertainment industry, the music and movies were good. The new Scientology management has produced nothing but skanks and mutants.
Skanks are important.
/
| 122 |
Gus Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:21:04am |
re: #117 lazardo
Still, the incident showed that our police force isn't exactly competent when it came to responding to something like this. Maybe they couldn't have sniped him through the window because the only good angle for quite a distance happens to be across Luneta Park.
But they took so long just to get into the bus from the time they stacked up around it that until they'd actually gotten in I was pretty sure he'd offed himself as most of these postal crazies tend to do.
Seemed like it all happened rather quickly. Typically, waiting these things out leads to more lives saved. Waiting for the right time to take out the perp. Even if it took a week. I'm not really aware of the circumstances.
| 124 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:23:33am |
re: #113 Spare O'Lake
"...David Lee Roth,
lights the Menorah,
so do James Caan, Kirk Dougalas and the late Sinah Shore-a,
Geuss who eats together at the CarnegieDeli,
Bowser from Sha-na-na and Arthur Fonzarelli!
Pual Newman half jewish,
Goldi Hahn's too,
put them together what a FINE lookin' Jew!
You don't need Deck the Halls or The Jingle Bell Rock,
cause you can spin a dreidel with Captian Kirk and Mr. Spock!
We got Ann Landers and her sister Dear Abby,
Harrison Fords a quater Jewish!,
NOT TO SHABBY!
Some people think,
Ebaniser Scrooge is,
well he's not but geuss who is?,
all three Stooges!!!
So many Jews are rich o' biz,
Tom Cruise isn't,
but I heard his agent is!..."
-Adam Sandler
...
| 125 |
lazardo Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:23:51am |
re: #122 Gus 802
The sudden arrest of his brother in front of the bus certainly didn't help.
Whether they negotiate or just go Call of Duty on the bus, they shouldn't half-ass it.
| 126 |
Gus Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:25:12am |
re: #125 lazardo
The sudden arrest of his brother in front of the bus certainly didn't help.
Whether they negotiate or just go Call of Duty on the bus, they shouldn't half-ass it.
Came across this:
Ten things the Philippines bus siege police got wrong
A security analyst who has worked in counter-terrorism with the British Army and Scotland Yard, Charles Shoebridge, says the officers involved in Manila's bus siege showed great courage - but they were not properly trained or equipped for the task...
| 127 |
Spare O'Lake Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:26:22am |
re: #118 researchok
I disagree vehemently. Hating Israel's existence is anti semitic, period.
Disagreeing or hating Israeli policies is another thing altogether.
Israel does not only have the right to exist, she has the obligation to exist, as does every free state. What she has done as a nation in a thousand ways to better mankind obliges her to continue and not submit to those who would subvert her.
I agree entirely with your sentiment, but don't forget the there are even some religious whacko Jews who believe that Israel's statehood is an abomination.
| 128 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:28:51am |
Hezbollah Chief Urges Lebanese Government To Build Nuclear Reactor
The head of ultra-conservative Lebanese militant outfit Hezbollah has called up on Beirut to build a nuclear facility for generating electricity on the lines of the Bushehr plant in Iran, reports said on Tuesday.
Seyyed Hassan Nasarallah said that if Lebanon were to build a nuclear facility as he suggested, it could save the country huge amounts of money now being spent on procuring power. Besides surplus power could be sold to other countries in the region.
| 129 |
lazardo Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:29:13am |
re: #126 Gus 802
Came across this:
You wouldn't believe how many comments on the local news sites where people called all those things out "as it happened." I actually got blocked from one of them for using all caps while doing so.
Because even while in Cruise Control, you still have to steer.
| 130 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:29:49am |
re: #128 NJDhockeyfan
Hezbollah Chief Urges Lebanese Government To Build Nuclear Reactor
That worked out well for Syria.
| 131 |
Gus Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:29:59am |
re: #129 lazardo
You wouldn't believe how many comments on the local news sites where people called all those things out "as it happened." I actually got blocked from one of them for using all caps while doing so.
Because even while in Cruise Control, you still have to steer.
Speaking of missed opportunities. Look at this:
That's him.
| 132 |
lazardo Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:31:06am |
re: #131 Gus 802
If I recall there's a restaurant down the road from that direction that would have provided an excellent sniping spot.
Or they could have just yanked him out and pinned him to the ground.
| 133 |
Spare O'Lake Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:31:11am |
| 134 |
Ericus58 Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:31:31am |
re: #95 NJDhockeyfan
The head of Amnesty International’s Finnish branch, Frank Johansson, told The Jerusalem Post on Tuesday that he stands by his statement that Israel is a “scum state.”
Worth highlighting.
| 135 |
Gus Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:32:21am |
re: #132 lazardo
If I recall there's a restaurant down the road from that direction that would have provided an excellent sniping spot.
Or they could have just yanked him out and pinned him to the ground.
Exactly. Here's another one.
He's holding out his hand which could have been grabbed. Or he could have been sniped.
| 137 |
lazardo Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:35:33am |
re: #135 Gus 802
But now, it's all over but the souvenir taking and picture posing.
| 138 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:36:02am |
re: #135 Gus 802
Exactly. Here's another one.
He's holding out his hand which could have been grabbed. Or he could have been sniped.
I voted sniped. But then again, I'm an asshole.
| 139 |
Gus Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:37:05am |
re: #137 lazardo
But now, it's all over but the souvenir taking and picture posing.
What the? That looks rather unprofessional.
| 140 |
lazardo Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:39:47am |
re: #139 Gus 802
What the? That looks rather unprofessional.
As I've said, that's our police force for you.
| 141 |
Gus Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:40:06am |
re: #138 Cannadian Club Akbar
I voted sniped. But then again, I'm an asshole.
Yeah. I think I heard something about "missing the opportunity to take him out alive." Alive? The douche sacrificed that possibility the moment he took those people hostage. Perps like that should be taken out when the opportunity presents itself with no consideration if they live or die.
| 142 |
DaddyG Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:40:37am |
Question?
How do the advertising logic/programming work here at LGF?
I just logged on to find an ad for mormon.org (our church's public outreach site) and was a little weirded out since Mormons (LDS) are commented on few and far between here and I'm the most likely culprit to bring them up as a reference for my own experience.
Any one here know if the site tracks my personal preferences or if that was a coincidence?
(I'll be sitting in the corner with my tinfoil hat on in the mean time/)
| 143 |
Gus Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:41:43am |
re: #140 lazardo
As I've said, that's our police force for you.
Ugh...
Image: 40406_144802355552909_116681311698347_255695_4038548_n.jpg
Image: 45252_144804602219351_116681311698347_255710_7529471_n.jpg
Image: 41363_144808922218919_116681311698347_255850_5167933_n.jpg
| 144 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:45:27am |
What are they teaching at the schools in Australia?
Teacher to Aussie Kids: Plan Massive Terror Hit
A high school teacher in Australia who assigned her class to plan a terrorist attack that would kill as many innocent Australians as possible says she had no intention of promoting terrorism. Students in Western Australia were given the assignment last week in a class on contemporary conflict and terrorism. The school principal withdrew the assignment as soon as he heard of it—but not before outrage spread nationwide, with survivors of terror attacks calling the assignment "extremely offensive."
"The teacher, with every best intention, was attempting to have the students think through someone else's eyes about conflict," says an education department spokesman. "I think there are better ways to do that. ... This is not what we expect of professional educators."
| 148 |
darthstar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:47:31am |
Mornin' folks. So apparently Alaska had one of those nice little anti-abortion propositions on the ballot yesterday (how convenient) which got 10,000 more votes than either the Republican or Democratic primary candidates did (i.e. it brought out the ultra-conservatives...prop 2 passed 55-45). End result, Joe Miller gets 51% of the vote to beat Murkowski.
What does this mean for us? Well, it simply means we get to hear non-stop "Sarah Palin, kingmaker" bullshit on the news for the next few weeks/months/years...
Worse, however, is what it means for the girls in Alaska who don't want to be another Bristol Palin. Doctors will be required to inform their parents before performing abortions on them.
| 149 |
DaddyG Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:48:39am |
re: #143 Gus 802
Heh. When my daughter passed out in the underground hall during the tour of the US Capitol several homeland security officers rushed to her aid. I pulled out a camera thinking she would want to see what happened when she came to.
As soon as I got the viewfinder to my eye a very large black female Capitol security guard was towering over me yelling "Sir, just what do you think you are doing?!"
I mumbled something about being her Dad. She rolled her eyes and shook her head and resumed securing the scene.
My family thought it was pretty funny.
I've got to say they were real professional and responsive there.
| 150 |
garhighway Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:48:45am |
re: #148 darthstar
Mornin' folks. So apparently Alaska had one of those nice little anti-abortion propositions on the ballot yesterday (how convenient) which got 10,000 more votes than either the Republican or Democratic primary candidates did (i.e. it brought out the ultra-conservatives...prop 2 passed 55-45). End result, Joe Miller gets 51% of the vote to beat Murkowski.
What does this mean for us? Well, it simply means we get to hear non-stop "Sarah Palin, kingmaker" bullshit on the news for the next few weeks/months/years...
Worse, however, is what it means for the girls in Alaska who don't want to be another Bristol Palin. Doctors will be required to inform their parents before performing abortions on them.
The GOP is very good at wedge issues. You have to admire their skill.
| 151 |
prairiefire Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:50:15am |
re: #142 DaddyG
Question?
How do the advertising logic/programming work here at LGF?
I just logged on to find an ad for mormon.org (our church's public outreach site) and was a little weirded out since Mormons (LDS) are commented on few and far between here and I'm the most likely culprit to bring them up as a reference for my own experience.
Any one here know if the site tracks my personal preferences or if that was a coincidence?
(I'll be sitting in the corner with my tinfoil hat on in the mean time/)
I'm not Mormon and that ad has been coming up at the top for me for about 2 weeks. I think they just made a big ad buy.
| 152 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:50:27am |
re: #148 darthstar
Mornin' folks. So apparently Alaska had one of those nice little anti-abortion propositions on the ballot yesterday (how convenient) which got 10,000 more votes than either the Republican or Democratic primary candidates did (i.e. it brought out the ultra-conservatives...prop 2 passed 55-45). End result, Joe Miller gets 51% of the vote to beat Murkowski.
What does this mean for us? Well, it simply means we get to hear non-stop "Sarah Palin, kingmaker" bullshit on the news for the next few weeks/months/years...
Worse, however, is what it means for the girls in Alaska who don't want to be another Bristol Palin. Doctors will be required to inform their parents before performing abortions on them.
You mean they outlawed abortions in Alaska?
| 153 |
DaddyG Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:51:37am |
re: #151 prairiefire
I'm not Mormon and that ad has been coming up at the top for me for about 2 weeks. I think they just made a big ad buy.
Thanks. That makes sense.
| 154 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:52:28am |
re: #152 Walter L. Newton
You mean they outlawed abortions in Alaska?
From what darth said, it sounds like it's required parental notification, which will have a chilling effect while not technically outlawing them.
| 155 |
I Am Kreniigh! Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:53:26am |
Here we go:
Cab Driver Stabbed By Passenger Who Asked "Are You Muslim?"
[Link: manhattan.ny1.com...]
Police say the passenger asked the driver, "Are you Muslim?" When the driver said yes the passenger pulled a knife and slashed him in the throat, arm and lip.
| 156 |
darthstar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:54:38am |
re: #154 thedopefishlives
From what darth said, it sounds like it's required parental notification, which will have a chilling effect while not technically outlawing them.
Parental notification - which will be the death knell to some girls.
| 157 |
darthstar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:56:36am |
re: #155 Kreniigh
Here we go:
Cab Driver Stabbed By Passenger Who Asked "Are You Muslim?"
[Link: manhattan.ny1.com...]
Police say the passenger asked the driver, "Are you Muslim?" When the driver said yes the passenger pulled a knife and slashed him in the throat, arm and lip.
At least they caught the fucker who stabbed him, as the driver was able to lock him in the back of the car so he couldn't escape. Most cabs also have cameras in them now.
| 158 |
DaddyG Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:58:25am |
re: #155 Kreniigh
Here we go:
Cab Driver Stabbed By Passenger Who Asked "Are You Muslim?"
[Link: manhattan.ny1.com...]
Police say the passenger asked the driver, "Are you Muslim?" When the driver said yes the passenger pulled a knife and slashed him in the throat, arm and lip.
The cabbie was able to lock the 21 year old male passneger in the back of the cab and call 911.
"Both the driver and the passenger were taken to Bellevue Hospital."
Hmmm... this isn't very forgiving of me but I hope the cabbie got in a few good shots at the passenger.
I don't think the protests and hate create more nutcases but unfortunately it focuses the hatred of the imbalanced on specific groups. This is very bad mojo.
| 159 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:58:48am |
re: #144 NJDhockeyfan
What are they teaching at the schools in Australia?
The teacher, with every best intention, was attempting to have the students think through someone else's eyes about conflict,"
Right. So, will she tell them to plan a rape in order to have them think about sexual assault?
| 160 |
lawhawk Wed, Aug 25, 2010 6:59:56am |
re: #137 lazardo
Considering that the politicians and police are now saying that they botched the whole rescue attempt and situation in general, that's not only in poor taste but extremely unprofessional and should result in repercussions for those involved (and already has as some directly involved in the raid were put on leave or offered to resign).
| 161 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:03:19am |
re: #159 MandyManners
The teacher, with every best intention, was attempting to have the students think through someone else's eyes about conflict,"
Right. So, will she tell them to plan a rape in order to have them think about sexual assault?
Sure! That's after the beheading reports are turned in which are due next week.
| 162 |
DaddyG Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:04:17am |
re: #156 darthstar
Parental notification - which will be the death knell to some girls.
Parental notification will disproportionately impact girls who are in a family situation where they would not likely be in a good position to inform a parent in the first place.
Contrast my wife who grew up in an abusive home and would have been beaten for it versus my own daughters who trust their mom and would likely come to her first if they ever had an unexpected pregnancy.
(Full disclosure: I am anti-abortion in a moral sense and very pro-choice in a legal sense. I would prefer to see people use options like adoption except in cases of incest, rape or health risk to the mother. However, government cannot police morality.)
| 163 |
lawhawk Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:05:10am |
re: #155 Kreniigh
The passenger was brought to the hospital too - suggesting injuries as well? I suspect there's a whole lot more to this story than what the early reports are saying.
| 164 |
darthstar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:05:32am |
Here's one that will make you say, "What the fuck was CNN thinking?" (or at least it should)
CNN actually interviewed Mark Williams (you know him best for his "Obama=slave owner, taxpayer=niggar[sic]" protest sign, or maybe his racist "letter" to Abraham Lincoln, or possibly just as the guy even the fucking tea party thought was too racist and expelled from its ranks). They interviewed him for his take on the Cordoba/Park51 controversy.
| 165 |
CuriousLurker Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:06:21am |
re: #142 DaddyG
Question?
How do the advertising logic/programming work here at LGF?
I just logged on to find an ad for mormon.org (our church's public outreach site) and was a little weirded out since Mormons (LDS) are commented on few and far between here and I'm the most likely culprit to bring them up as a reference for my own experience.
Any one here know if the site tracks my personal preferences or if that was a coincidence?
(I'll be sitting in the corner with my tinfoil hat on in the mean time/)
I don't want to increase your paranoia, but it's always good to be informed.
Any tracking would be done by the advertisers, not LGF. Cookies placed on your computer by web sites can only track your activities on the web site that placed them there, however there are ad networks that can track your movements across multiple sites—it's called behavioral advertising. One of the ones that seems to be everywhere is DoubleClick.
| 166 |
lazardo Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:06:32am |
re: #160 lawhawk
Considering that the politicians and police are now saying that they botched the whole rescue attempt and situation in general, that's not only in poor taste but extremely unprofessional and should result in repercussions for those involved (and already has as some directly involved in the raid were put on leave or offered to resign).
The problem is that firing the people involved is essentially a way of sweeping the entire matter under the rug as that's where this sort of response tends to end as they wait for the media to latch onto whatever tragedy unfolds next.
| 167 |
DaddyG Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:06:32am |
re: #161 NJDhockeyfan
Sure! That's after the beheading reports are turned in which are due next week.
Shop class is working on a uranium centrafuge so the students can gain understanding about Iranian politics. /
| 168 |
CuriousLurker Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:08:11am |
re: #155 Kreniigh
Here we go:
Cab Driver Stabbed By Passenger Who Asked "Are You Muslim?"
[Link: manhattan.ny1.com...]
Police say the passenger asked the driver, "Are you Muslim?" When the driver said yes the passenger pulled a knife and slashed him in the throat, arm and lip.
It was just a matter of time. It won't be the last if the inflammatory rhetoric keeps up.
| 169 |
DaddyG Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:08:35am |
re: #164 darthstar
Here's one that will make you say, "What the fuck was CNN thinking?" (or at least it should)
CNN actually interviewed Mark Williams (you know him best for his "Obama=slave owner, taxpayer=niggar[sic]" protest sign, or maybe his racist "letter" to Abraham Lincoln, or possibly just as the guy even the fucking tea party thought was too racist and expelled from its ranks). They interviewed him for his take on the Cordoba/Park51 controversy.
I'm not surprised. Its all about ratings which drives the Fox News lunacy as well as the stunts pulled on other cable networks. Even the network news has been known to set a spark to a tank of gas to get an exciting story.
| 171 |
DaddyG Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:10:25am |
re: #165 CuriousLurker
That makes sense. I use the on line scriptures at lds.org and I suspect I have some cookies from there hanging out in my cache.
Thanks for the info.
| 172 |
CuriousLurker Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:10:47am |
| 173 |
M. Dubious Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:16:36am |
re: #53 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Well, "Smile" should have been #2, but that never happened.
I nominate it for "Greatest album never made".
Now there's a topic for y'all!
| 174 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:20:57am |
Another girls school is attacked in Afghanistan...
Afghan schoolgirls sickened by unknown gas
Dozens of students and teachers at a girls' school in Afghanistan's capital Kabul were sickened Wednesday by an unknown gas that spread through classrooms, education officials said.
The incident was similar to earlier cases where scores of girls have been treated for dizziness, headaches and nausea following suspected poisoning attacks. Those have raised fears that the Taliban and other Islamic fundamentalists who oppose female education are using a new method to scare them away from classes.
| 175 |
lawhawk Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:22:56am |
New home sales drop in July to lowest levels on record. Even with that grim news, Toll Bros made money in the quarter (and profits for the first time in three years). The homebuilder did it by cutting costs and managing its portfolio (eeking out a profit on 1.6% less revenue) - but the news report claims that the key was the homeowner tax credit which expired in April (then June). No doubt that their results would have been far worse for the reporting period if the credit wasn't there, but we'll now see just how badly they get hammered in upcoming months.
By stealing sales from future months, the expired credit means these companies will be right back in the mess as the housing numbers are downright putrid if you're a seller and buyers are staying on the sidelines hoping prices continue down and become more affordable.
| 176 |
lawhawk Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:23:49am |
re: #174 NJDhockeyfan
That's like the third such incident in recent months... the Taliban do not want to see girls educated and are more than willing to attack the girls, the schools, the teachers, and anyone willing to educate and make improvements in the country.
| 178 |
RogueOne Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:30:04am |
re: #143 Gus 802
Ugh...
Image: 40406_144802355552909_116681311698347_255695_40385 48_n.jpg
Image: 45252_144804602219351_116681311698347_255710_75294 71_n.jpg
Image: 41363_144808922218919_116681311698347_255850_51679 33_n.jpg
I'm surprised one of them didn't cut off one of his ears as a trophy.
| 179 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:33:55am |
re: #148 darthstar
Mornin' folks. So apparently Alaska had one of those nice little anti-abortion propositions on the ballot yesterday (how convenient) which got 10,000 more votes than either the Republican or Democratic primary candidates did (i.e. it brought out the ultra-conservatives...prop 2 passed 55-45). End result, Joe Miller gets 51% of the vote to beat Murkowski.
What does this mean for us? Well, it simply means we get to hear non-stop "Sarah Palin, kingmaker" bullshit on the news for the next few weeks/months/years...
Worse, however, is what it means for the girls in Alaska who don't want to be another Bristol Palin. Doctors will be required to inform their parents before performing abortions on them.
Well . . . I'm just gonna come out and say -
An abortion is a medical procedure, and I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with parents being informed as to what's going on with their minor children.
| 180 |
DaddyG Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:36:32am |
re: #179 reine.de.tout
Well . . . I'm just gonna come out and say -
An abortion is a medical procedure, and I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with parents being informed as to what's going on with their minor children.
In principle and ingeneral I agree that parents should be informed of medical procedures. I only hesitate when there are mitigating circumstances like abuse.
With the abortion and sex issues being so charged what recourse is there for a child who truly feels threatened or if there is a case of incest?
This really gets hairy at that point.
| 181 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:36:39am |
re: #179 reine.de.tout
Well . . . I'm just gonna come out and say -
An abortion is a medical procedure, and I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with parents being informed as to what's going on with their minor children.
Agree. I don't want as much as an aspirin given to my kids without calling me first and asking permission.
| 182 |
windsagio Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:37:03am |
re: #179 reine.de.tout
I'm actually kinda on the fence about this particular thing, the problem being that it smacks of intimidation. On the other hand, as you say, in general parents get informed of medical procedures done to their kids.
Still... intimidation >>
| 184 |
DaddyG Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:39:27am |
I would be much more comfortable if there were some resource available to the girls that feel threatened. For example a special case worker at child services that can investigate the situation and determine if notification would put the child at risk. At the same time DFCS could get the resources together to assist the child with their choice (abortion counseling, WIC, parenting classes if they choose to adopt...)
We are talking minor children here.
| 185 |
mcspiff Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:40:13am |
re: #179 reine.de.tout
Well . . . I'm just gonna come out and say -
An abortion is a medical procedure, and I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with parents being informed as to what's going on with their minor children.
I think in general if a child comes to a reasonable conclusion that they want a medical procedure performed and a Dr. agrees, that should be the end of it. I think its stupid that children need to become wards of the state to receive things like blood transfusions. If a 14 year old is saying "Do anything you can to save me!" the parents really dont need to have a say in that.
This might be less of an issue than the states, I have no idea.
| 186 |
mcspiff Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:41:04am |
re: #185 mcspiff
I think in general if a child comes to a reasonable conclusion that they want a medical procedure performed and a Dr. agrees, that should be the end of it. I think its stupid that children need to become wards of the state to receive things like blood transfusions. If a 14 year old is saying "Do anything you can to save me!" the parents really dont need to have a say in that.
This might be less of an issue in the states, I have no idea.
PIMF
| 187 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:41:40am |
re: #180 DaddyG
In principle and ingeneral I agree that parents should be informed of medical procedures. I only hesitate when there are mitigating circumstances like abuse.
With the abortion and sex issues being so charged what recourse is there for a child who truly feels threatened or if there is a case of incest?
This really gets hairy at that point.
I would hope that there are agencies that kids can go to for help in these situations. The problem is this - children growing up in abusive situations may not recognize that their situation is abusive - in other words, it's such a part of life for them, they may assume it's like that for everybody.
My ex-husband's parents were both alcoholic. He was in his 40's and in counseling before he ever really realized that a kid waking up in the morning and having to walk down the street to the neighbor's house to get help for his sick brother because his parents were passed out drunk (and his dad was a physician!) - was not a normal way of life for most people.
People dealing with pregnant teens should be trained to ask questions to try to determine what the home situation is; and there should be protocols for handling abusive situations.
| 188 |
DaddyG Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:42:02am |
Personally I think its sad that the state of parenting and society leads to a significant amount of child pregnancies. This is a case of debating how to pull victims out of the stream when we should be looking upstream to see how we can prevent them from falling in.
| 189 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:43:07am |
re: #185 mcspiff
I think in general if a child comes to a reasonable conclusion that they want a medical procedure performed and a Dr. agrees, that should be the end of it. I think its stupid that children need to become wards of the state to receive things like blood transfusions. If a 14 year old is saying "Do anything you can to save me!" the parents really dont need to have a say in that.
This might be less of an issue than the states, I have no idea.
If there are after-effects or complication, parents need to know what's going on in order to be on the watch and seek appropriate care. If they don't know what's happened, they could just dismiss a complication as a temporary flu or whatever, and delay getting care for the kid.
| 190 |
windsagio Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:44:07am |
re: #189 reine.de.tout
Reine; what about the idea that such laws are largely proposed to shame girls into not getting abortions?
We in general agree on the subject (as far as I can tell), but I'm curious as to your take on that part.
| 191 |
mcspiff Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:45:14am |
re: #189 reine.de.tout
If there are after-effects or complication, parents need to know what's going on in order to be on the watch and seek appropriate care. If they don't know what's happened, they could just dismiss a complication as a temporary flu or whatever, and delay getting care for the kid.
Sure. I've just seen too many cases where parental involvement ended poorly(No, shark cartridge is no replacement for chemo) , or where parental notification would have ended really poorly.
| 192 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:45:35am |
re: #188 DaddyG
Personally I think its sad that the state of parenting and society leads to a significant amount of child pregnancies. This is a case of debating how to pull victims out of the stream when we should be looking upstream to see how we can prevent them from falling in.
I agree, generally.
On the other hand, hormones are hormones, and I remember being a teen.
I've talked before about my daughter, who was pregnant at 15. The boyfriend tried to talk her into having an abortion, but she came to me instead, ended up having the baby and she placed him for adoption with the most lovely couple, I mean, I can't imagine a more perfect couple to raise this child. They adore him.
| 194 |
darthstar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:46:08am |
re: #181 NJDhockeyfan
Agree. I don't want as much as an aspirin given to my kids without calling me first and asking permission.
Your kids aren't going to ask for permission before fucking. If they're smart, they'll wear protection. If that fails, and they don't want to have a child (instead seeing graduating high school and going to college as more attractive options for themselves, maybe), then they may in fact seek out an abortion. It's not the same as a school nurse giving a kid an aspirin for a headache.
| 195 |
abolitionist Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:46:08am |
The Government's New Right to Track Your Every Move With GPS
Government agents can sneak onto your property in the middle of the night, put a GPS device on the bottom of your car and keep track of everywhere you go. This doesn't violate your Fourth Amendment rights, because you do not have any reasonable expectation of privacy in your own driveway - and no reasonable expectation that the government isn't tracking your movements.
That is the bizarre - and scary - rule that now applies in California and eight other Western states. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, which covers this vast jurisdiction, recently decided the government can monitor you in this way virtually anytime it wants - with no need for a search warrant.
The GPS coordinates could be made available in real-time on a public website. The car could belong to a government official or be government property. Maybe stopped at a traffic light or something when the GPS is attached. No crime. Nice.
/Winston Smith, pedestrian mode
| 196 |
Interesting Times Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:46:30am |
re: #188 DaddyG
Personally I think its sad that the state of parenting and society leads to a significant amount of child pregnancies. This is a case of debating how to pull victims out of the stream when we should be looking upstream to see how we can prevent them from falling in.
Proper sex and contraceptive education would be a good start.
| 197 |
lostlakehiker Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:46:46am |
re: #60 NJDhockeyfan
It could get very ugly before it ends...
Islamic Radicals Threaten Suicide Bombings Against Gainesville Church
According to the news story quoted, the gvl fire dept has denied the church a permit for the event
WTF? Since when does one need a permit to burn a book? We're not talking fireworks or gasoline here. Burning flags, bibles, qurans, etc. it's all in bad taste, but it's all a perfectly legal way to be an offensive snot.
If rights mean anything, they mean that this sort of demonstration is legal. Fire permits???
| 198 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:47:23am |
re: #190 windsagio
Reine; what about the idea that such laws are largely proposed to shame girls into not getting abortions?
We in general agree on the subject (as far as I can tell), but I'm curious as to your take on that part.
I don't believe the laws are intended to shame a girl into not getting an abortion. I believe those laws uphold a parent's right, obligation and need to know what's going on with their kids.
Again - people dealing with pregnant teens should be trained to ask questions to elicit information that would let them know exactly what the home situation is; and in those cases where it appears there is abuse, other options should be available. And that's the part where these laws fall down, IMO
| 199 |
windsagio Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:47:36am |
re: #197 lostlakehiker
maybe they wanted to do it on public property >>
| 200 |
windsagio Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:48:18am |
re: #198 reine.de.tout
fair enough ;)
I'm strangely unmotivated on this issue either way, dunno why.
Maybe I should blame my parents ;)
| 201 |
DaddyG Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:48:28am |
re: #187 reine.de.tout
That's the problem. Those in abusive situations are probably the least likely to seek out or benefit from the kind of help they desperately need.
Simply giving abortion services without any kind of parental or guardian support hides the symptom of the abuse but does not provide real help.
As the abuse victim grows older they not only have to deal with recovery from the abuse but in many cases the complex and sometimes painful feelings that result from having an abortion. I know all too well how difficult that can be to cope with. Leaving a child to themselves to make that decision (even with a medical doctor to consult) is a very dicey proposition.
| 202 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:49:20am |
re: #194 darthstar
Your kids aren't going to ask for permission before fucking. If they're smart, they'll wear protection. If that fails, and they don't want to have a child (instead seeing graduating high school and going to college as more attractive options for themselves, maybe), then they may in fact seek out an abortion. It's not the same as a school nurse giving a kid an aspirin for a headache.
No, it's much worse! If something bad happens and they have to go to the hospital for surgery the doctors will need parent's permission for it.
| 203 |
Varek Raith Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:50:36am |
re: #197 lostlakehiker
According to the news story quoted, the gvl fire dept has denied the church a permit for the event
WTF? Since when does one need a permit to burn a book? We're not talking fireworks or gasoline here. Burning flags, bibles, qurans, etc. it's all in bad taste, but it's all a perfectly legal way to be an offensive snot.
If rights mean anything, they mean that this sort of demonstration is legal. Fire permits???
I heard a report that there was going to be an armed militia protecting this group.
| 204 |
alexknyc Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:50:45am |
re: #195 abolitionist
No reasonable expectation of privacy in your own driveway?
Man, the Founding Fathers would not recognize this country.
| 205 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:50:46am |
re: #197 lostlakehiker
According to the news story quoted, the gvl fire dept has denied the church a permit for the event
WTF? Since when does one need a permit to burn a book? We're not talking fireworks or gasoline here. Burning flags, bibles, qurans, etc. it's all in bad taste, but it's all a perfectly legal way to be an offensive snot.
If rights mean anything, they mean that this sort of demonstration is legal. Fire permits???
I burned a bunch of magazines last weekend. Did I break any laws?
| 206 |
DaddyG Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:52:28am |
re: #196 publicityStunted
Proper sex and contraceptive education would be a good start.
...and its much more effective in the home.
Still - kids do stuff they aren't supposed to do and they need responsible adults to guide them to decisions that won't haunt them for the rest of their lives.
| 207 |
windsagio Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:52:32am |
re: #205 NJDhockeyfan
Depends on where you live. Out here there are a lot of air pollution laws that forbid private burning.
| 208 |
windsagio Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:53:00am |
re: #204 alexknyc
No reasonable expectation of privacy in your own driveway?
Man, the Founding Fathers would not recognize this country.
Those boxes with the tiny minstrels inside would be confusing, yes >>
| 209 |
DaddyG Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:54:27am |
re: #204 alexknyc
No reasonable expectation of privacy in your own driveway?
Man, the Founding Fathers would not recognize this country.
I've got an issue with an idiot with a security camera trained on our neighborhood pool and there is nothing in state law that can prevent it. He says he's helping the board with security. I suspect he's looking at women and girls in bikinis since his little boy introduced my boys to some interesting web sites he found on Dad's computer. Sigh.
| 211 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:56:09am |
re: #201 DaddyG
That's the problem. Those in abusive situations are probably the least likely to seek out or benefit from the kind of help they desperately need.
Simply giving abortion services without any kind of parental or guardian support hides the symptom of the abuse but does not provide real help.
As the abuse victim grows older they not only have to deal with recovery from the abuse but in many cases the complex and sometimes painful feelings that result from having an abortion. I know all too well how difficult that can be to cope with. Leaving a child to themselves to make that decision (even with a medical doctor to consult) is a very dicey proposition.
Exactly right.
If a child seeks an abortion, whoever she goes to should be trained to find out about the home situation, and the potential for the kid being in an abusive home situation, then either inform the parents, OR guide the kid into whatever services are available for children living in abusive situations.
My daughter kept a blog while she was pregnant; and got a lot of hits and comments from other kids in similar situations. She also has a friend who did have an abortion, but in this case, it was the friend's mother who made her do it. Daughter tells me this friend has terrible feelings of guilt all the time, and anger at the mother. Daughter also tells me she's glad she had me as her mom (made my day, that one did).
| 212 |
darthstar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:56:11am |
Children are a responsibility, not property. re: #202 NJDhockeyfan
No, it's much worse! If something bad happens and they have to go to the hospital for surgery the doctors will need parent's permission for it.
Actually, doctors have what is called "implied consent" (by law) in emergency situations. Parental consent is irrelevant in that case...though if a parent does show up, they do have the right(ironically) to refuse medical treatment for their kid.
I only know this because as a ski patroller, I have implied consent to give first aid to a child if no parent is around.
Parental consent laws are there for one purpose: to give the parents the right to refuse abortions for their kids.
| 213 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:56:22am |
re: #195 abolitionist
The Government's New Right to Track Your Every Move With GPS
The GPS coordinates could be made available in real-time on a public website. The car could belong to a government official or be government property. Maybe stopped at a traffic light or something when the GPS is attached. No crime. Nice.
/Winston Smith, pedestrian mode
I wonder how long that law hangs around if common folk start putting GPS transmitters on, and tracking, various government officials such as governors, judges, and other elected officials. And then putting that data up on a web-site showing their various stops (oops, that's not the official residence!)
Of course the immediate solution will be to criminalize the public from doing it, but allowing the government to do it (without a subpoena) for reasons of public security.
| 215 |
theheat Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:57:19am |
re: #206 DaddyG
I want to see contraception available everyplace, to everyone, at any age. Make it so commonplace it's like buying Kleen-X. Unfortunately, the pro lifers have a problem with that, too. They'd like to believe that by denying contraception and abortions, the sex will stop.
Wrong. Way wrong. Historically wrong, currently wrong. That's the land of Neverwas.
Abstinence is not contraception. People having sex need contraception. They've already kicked abstinence to the curb. Let's allow them contraception, and prevent so many unwanted pregnancies. They can be browbeaten later by their parents for having sex, but at least they aren't pregnant.
| 216 |
windsagio Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:58:09am |
re: #212 darthstar
The funny thing about refusing consent is that if the kid is suddenly hurt, its suddenly a felony crime.
We've had a few cases over the past few years in OR of kids dying because their parents refuse care for religious reasons. Apparently its not a crime until its too late.
| 218 |
darthstar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 7:59:46am |
re: #216 windsagio
The funny thing about refusing consent is that if the kid is suddenly hurt, its suddenly a felony crime.
We've had a few cases over the past few years in OR of kids dying because their parents refuse care for religious reasons. Apparently its not a crime until its too late.
Yep...you can refuse consent until they're dead. Then the law takes over.
| 219 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:00:28am |
re: #197 lostlakehiker
According to the news story quoted, the gvl fire dept has denied the church a permit for the event
WTF? Since when does one need a permit to burn a book? We're not talking fireworks or gasoline here. Burning flags, bibles, qurans, etc. it's all in bad taste, but it's all a perfectly legal way to be an offensive snot.
If rights mean anything, they mean that this sort of demonstration is legal. Fire permits???
Not for books in particular, but for burning stuff in general.
A lot of local regulations concerning open air burning. Air pollution concerns, or simply the fact that in a lot of conditions open air burning has a threat of spreading.
Where my parents lived in Central Oregon there were very specific rules for when you could burn stuff (such as brush), and what preparations you had to make.
Interestingly enough, the brush was being collected and burned to reduce the general fire hazard to the houses and trees. Less than 10-15 inches of rain in that area in the year, so quite dry.
| 220 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:00:43am |
re: #215 theheat
I want to see contraception available everyplace, to everyone, at any age. Make it so commonplace it's like buying Kleen-X. Unfortunately, the pro lifers have a problem with that, too. They'd like to believe that by denying contraception and abortions, the sex will stop.
Wrong. Way wrong. Historically wrong, currently wrong. That's the land of Neverwas.
Abstinence is not contraception. People having sex need contraception. They've already kicked abstinence to the curb. Let's allow them contraception, and prevent so many unwanted pregnancies. They can be browbeaten later by their parents for having sex, but at least they aren't pregnant.
I see condoms in every supermarket and drug store. IIRC there is no minimum age to buy them. So they are available.
| 221 |
darthstar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:01:35am |
re: #220 rwdflynavy
I see condoms in every supermarket and drug store. IIRC there is no minimum age to buy them. So they are available.
Balloons of the devil!
/
| 222 |
theheat Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:04:48am |
re: #220 rwdflynavy
Birth control pills and morning after pills, as well.
| 223 |
abolitionist Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:04:55am |
re: #209 DaddyG
I've got an issue with an idiot with a security camera trained on our neighborhood pool and there is nothing in state law that can prevent it. He says he's helping the board with security. I suspect he's looking at women and girls in bikinis since his little boy introduced my boys to some interesting web sites he found on Dad's computer. Sigh.
You could use a mirror to bounce some photons toward the camera on a sunny day. Maybe re-position the mirror several times. With some luck, the burnt-out pixels will convey a message. FU might work.
| 224 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:05:19am |
re: #221 darthstar
Balloons of the devil!
/
I remember from the book the Summer of 42, the main character (a young teenage boy) wanted to buy some condoms from the pharmacist. Pharmacist asks him if he know what they are for? Kid says he is buying them for his brother who is in the Army and told him they fill them with nitro-glycerin and throw it at Nazi tanks. The pharmacist laughs and says "Different people fill them with different things!".
| 225 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:05:49am |
re: #222 theheat
Birth control pills and morning after pills, as well.
Now you are talking prescribed medicine. That's a little tougher.
| 226 |
Interesting Times Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:06:07am |
re: #201 DaddyG
As the abuse victim grows older they not only have to deal with recovery from the abuse but in many cases the complex and sometimes painful feelings that result from having an abortion. I know all too well how difficult that can be to cope with. Leaving a child to themselves to make that decision (even with a medical doctor to consult) is a very dicey proposition.
Remember this?
Brazil rocked by abortion for 9-year-old rape victim
Declaring that "life must always be protected", a senior Vatican cleric has defended the Catholic Church's decision to excommunicate the mother and doctors of a nine-year-old rape victim who had a life-saving abortion in Brazil... Police believe the girl was sexually assaulted for years by her stepfather, possibly since she was six. That she was four months pregnant with twins emerged only after she was taken to hospital complaining of severe stomach pains.
...
Even the President, Luiz Ignacio Lula da Silva, has waded into the row. "As a Christian and a Catholic, I deeply regret that a bishop of the Catholic Church has such a conservative attitude," he said "The doctors did what had to be done: save the life of a girl of nine years old. In this case, the medical profession was more right than the Church."
I'm going to refrain from extended comment on the Vatican's beyond-disgusting behavior in this case. But I do wonder how "parental notification" laws in states that have them would work for a case such as this, especially if the abuser is the only "parent" in the picture.
| 227 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:06:12am |
re: #212 darthstar
Parental consent laws are there for one purpose: to give the parents the right to refuse abortions for their kids.
That's the only reason? Kids must know what best for them than their parents do I guess.
/
| 228 |
spikester Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:07:44am |
I got to meet a lot of new people for burning my old draft card on the stage in drama class my senior year. not for burning the card bur for starting the fire.
hist sight....starting a fire of any size should be thought through...before you strike the match
get the burn permit...if not then the next group will want to burn 4 books..then 8...
16, 32, clear up to 451
| 229 |
lawhawk Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:09:08am |
The tropics are heating up as we head into the heart of hurricane season. There are two storms right now - one in the central Atlantic that may threaten Bermuda but will likely just cause rough surf along the East coast (Danielle), and one that is running parallel to Mexico's West Coast (Frank)
| 230 |
darthstar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:11:15am |
re: #227 NJDhockeyfan
That's the only reason? Kids must know what best for them than their parents do I guess.
/
It's right of refusal for medical procedures. It's not like your daughters can get gender reassignment without your permission. But if they get knocked up accidentally, and decide they don't want to miss out on finishing high school so they can go to college and some day get the fuck out of New Jersey, then they should have that right...regardless of how you feel about it.
| 231 |
alexknyc Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:11:57am |
re: #225 rwdflynavy
Now you are talking prescribed medicine. That's a little tougher.
I thought the morning-after pill was now OTC.
| 232 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:11:57am |
Terrible shit going on in Mexico...
72 bodies found in San Fernando 'narcoranch'
Mexican authorities are investigating a gruesome discovery south of the border in south of the border in San Fernando.
Officials reported finding 72 bodies in a ranch about 13.7 miles northeast of the rural Tamaulipas city.
The Mexican Navy reported on Wednesday that a man arrived at a highway checkpoint bleeding from a gunshot wound and asking for help.
The man reported being injured on a nearby ranch prompting Navy officials to send out patrols and an aerial unit.
...Based on information from the injured man, authorities were able to find the bodies of 58 men and 14 women.
| 233 |
iossarian Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:12:32am |
re: #226 publicityStunted
I'm going to refrain from extended comment on the Vatican's beyond-disgusting behavior in this case. But I do wonder how "parental notification" laws in states that have them would work for a case such as this, especially if the abuser is the only "parent" in the picture.
I'm sure the drafters of the law have given no thought whatsoever to those situations.
re: #227 NJDhockeyfan
That's the only reason? Kids must know what best for them than their parents do I guess.
/
There are already many laws in place precisely because parents do not know what is best for their kids.
| 234 |
darthstar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:13:15am |
re: #231 alexknyc
I thought the morning-after pill was now OTC.
I think it is in some states. But a number of states allow the pharmacists to refuse it to their customers based on their personal religious beliefs.
| 235 |
DaddyG Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:13:43am |
re: #215 theheat
It gets worse. I've had parents shocked, shocked I tell you that two of my daughters are on the pill. Of course that's because they have health issues that the pill assists with. We even had an insurance agent tell my wife it wasn't her fault my kid was sexually active when we were arguing for her to get a birth control implant for her severe endometroisis. Not only is she a virgin, she's had three surgeons and half a dozen doctors witness the fact. As she likes to say "I've had more people crawl inside me than a $5 hooker and yet I can't say I've ever had sex." (She's got a good sense of humor).
In our case its not the parents who are causing the issue so much as other people who have no damn business sticking their noses in our business.
| 236 |
DaddyG Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:14:32am |
re: #223 abolitionist
You could use a mirror to bounce some photons toward the camera on a sunny day. Maybe re-position the mirror several times. With some luck, the burnt-out pixels will convey a message. FU might work.
The idea of a stealth spraypaint raid or a laser pointer has occured to me. The girls hand towels over the camera when they visit the pool.
| 238 |
alexknyc Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:15:58am |
re: #234 darthstar
I think it is in some states. But a number of states allow the pharmacists to refuse it to their customers based on their personal religious beliefs.
My understanding of that is that an individual pharmacist can refuse to give it out but, since CVS, Rite Aid and Walgreens seem to be just about everywhere (not to mention Wal-Mart, Target and other big box stores), chances are you'll find another who'll have no problem-- quite possibly in the same store.
| 239 |
Varek Raith Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:18:27am |
re: #238 alexknyc
My understanding of that is that an individual pharmacist can refuse to give it out but, since CVS, Rite Aid and Walgreens seem to be just about everywhere (not to mention Wal-Mart, Target and other big box stores), chances are you'll find another who'll have no problem-- quite possibly in the same store.
Or, perhaps, they should keep their beliefs to themselves and do their job.
| 240 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:20:12am |
Noted intellectual Pat Boone says Obama is a seekrit M00zlim, and that the White House is now a mosque. Really! Warning: Link goes to Worldnut Drooley, so take care to shield any important braincells you'd like to keep.
| 241 |
alexknyc Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:22:07am |
re: #239 Varek Raith
Or, perhaps, they should keep their beliefs to themselves and do their job.
I completely agree.
| 242 |
alexknyc Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:23:28am |
re: #240 negativ
Noted intellectual Pat Boone says Obama is a seekrit M00zlim, and that the White House is now a mosque. Really! Warning: Link goes to Worldnut Drooley, so take care to shield any important braincells you'd like to keep.
[Link: www.thepoliticalcarnival.net...]
| 243 |
alexknyc Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:24:59am |
re: #240 negativ
Noted intellectual Pat Boone says Obama is a seekrit M00zlim, and that the White House is now a mosque. Really! Warning: Link goes to Worldnut Drooley, so take care to shield any important braincells you'd like to keep.
Sorry for the double-post but I don't know how to use the quote feature and make my own link.
This article is "If President Obama is a Muslim, he sure is a bad one."
[Link: www.thepoliticalcarnival.net...]
| 244 |
Varek Raith Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:25:20am |
| 245 |
Spare O'Lake Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:27:57am |
re: #238 alexknyc
My understanding of that is that an individual pharmacist can refuse to give it out but, since CVS, Rite Aid and Walgreens seem to be just about everywhere (not to mention Wal-Mart, Target and other big box stores), chances are you'll find another who'll have no problem-- quite possibly in the same store.
What about their professional obligation to fill a doctor's legal Rx?
| 246 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:28:51am |
re: #243 alexknyc
This article is "If President Obama is a Muslim, he sure is a bad one."
[Link: www.thepoliticalcarnival.net...]
It should read "If Obama is a president, he sure is a bad one."
| 247 |
Varek Raith Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:29:31am |
re: #246 Walter L. Newton
It should read "If Obama is a president, he sure is a bad one."
Morning, sunshine!
| 248 |
alexknyc Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:29:34am |
re: #245 Spare O'Lake
What about their professional obligation to fill a doctor's legal Rx?
I agree that they should shut up and do their job.
However, the law has carved out a special exemption for them and they are legally within their rights to refuse.
Professionally, however, if it were up to me, they'd lose their certification.
| 249 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:30:12am |
| 250 |
What, me worry? Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:32:06am |
re: #240 negativ
Noted intellectual Pat Boone says Obama is a seekrit M00zlim, and that the White House is now a mosque. Really! Warning: Link goes to Worldnut Drooley, so take care to shield any important braincells you'd like to keep.
Pat Boone isn't dead yet??
"Noted intellectual." He should stick to the shitty covers he does for Judas Priest when he was at least somewhat funny instead of being a lying asshole.
| 251 |
deranged cat Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:32:37am |
[Link: j.mp...]
"Democrats- and the country- would benefit from a responsible opposition party. I'm still looking for evidence of one."
| 252 |
DaddyG Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:33:44am |
re: #226 publicityStunted
Separation of Church and state is a good thing for the state, its citizens and the churches that enjoy their freedoms. God bless America!
| 253 |
DaddyG Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:35:04am |
re: #234 darthstar
I think it is in some states. But a number of states allow the pharmacists to refuse it to their customers based on their personal religious beliefs.
"Let me get my satanic whore of a pharma tech to assit you with that ma'am." /
| 254 |
Spare O'Lake Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:35:15am |
re: #248 alexknyc
I agree that they should shut up and do their job.
However, the law has carved out a special exemption for them and they are legally within their rights to refuse.
Professionally, however, if it were up to me, they'd lose their certification.
Yes, and it seems to me that they also have an obligation to notify the doctor who wrote the prescription of their refusal to fill his medication order. And then, in turn, the doctor should file a complaint and consider posting a notice to his/her patients to consider filling ALL their prescriptions elsewhere.
| 255 |
alexknyc Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:36:48am |
re: #254 Spare O'Lake
Yes, and it seems to me that they also have an obligation to notify the doctor who wrote the prescription of their refusal to fill his medication order. And then, in turn, the doctor should file a complaint and consider posting a notice to his/her patients to consider filling ALL their prescriptions elsewhere.
That would work for me.
The patient also should notify the doctor with the same result.
| 256 |
mcspiff Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:37:09am |
re: #253 DaddyG
"Let me get my satanic whore of a pharma tech to assit you with that ma'am." /
You crack me up DaddyG. Keep'em coming!
| 257 |
What, me worry? Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:37:51am |
Morning lizards!
Election day has come and gone in Florida and Kendrick Meek got the Dem nod for Senate and Alex Sink for Governor.
The bad news is Rick Scott got the Republican vote. I see this as a better thing that for Alex Sink that he won. No noted Republicans (including Jeb Bush) supported Scott through his entire campaign.
| 258 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:38:35am |
Take this for what it's worth. I was on the phone with a fellow magician this morning, I hadn't talked to him for probably 7-8 years, he lives in a major city in Texas, someone who has made a living for the last 40 years at magic, primarily in the restaurant, corporate and trade show and children's events business.
He says he has had to change up his children's show material after all these years, because the children have become like little sheep, seemingly afraid to participate, to shout out, have some fun, heckle (children's magic is all about kvetching and participation between performer and audience), to join in.
It makes one wonder what has happened, where the "wonder" has gone for these kids, the natural instincts to "cut up" and be a kid. What has changed?
| 259 |
deranged cat Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:38:36am |
Michael Ian Black says "you're a fucking moron" to an audience member.
"There was no reason to meet your idiocy with my own, even though you are a fucking moron."
| 260 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:39:01am |
Report: NYC cabbie stabbed after passenger asks 'Are You Muslim?'
The initial reports are sketchy. And it's always important to remember the story of the backwards B. It's not a matter of trying to raise doubts. But with such inflammatory stories it's always important to look really closely at the details and take it one step at a time. We're digging for more details. More soon.
Late Update: Our reporter Eric Lach just spoke to the NYPD. They confirmed the key details of the story and said the attack will be charged as 2nd degree attempted murder and a hate crime. The suspect in the case is Michael Enright, 21. Full report soon.
| 261 |
deranged cat Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:40:11am |
re: #258 Walter L. Newton
Take this for what it's worth. I was on the phone with a fellow magician this morning, I hadn't talked to him for probably 7-8 years, he lives in a major city in Texas, someone who has made a living for the last 40 years at magic, primarily in the restaurant, corporate and trade show and children's events business.
He says he has had to change up his children's show material after all these years, because the children have become like little sheep, seemingly afraid to participate, to shout out, have some fun, heckle (children's magic is all about kvetching and participation between performer and audience), to join in.
It makes one wonder what has happened, where the "wonder" has gone for these kids, the natural instincts to "cut up" and be a kid. What has changed?
you're a magician?? thats awesome!
hey, did the guy mention those kids playing on their iphones or nintendo DS or PSPs? i think that's been a big problem with kids now-a-days too.
| 262 |
Spare O'Lake Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:40:59am |
re: #258 Walter L. Newton
Take this for what it's worth. I was on the phone with a fellow magician this morning, I hadn't talked to him for probably 7-8 years, he lives in a major city in Texas, someone who has made a living for the last 40 years at magic, primarily in the restaurant, corporate and trade show and children's events business.
He says he has had to change up his children's show material after all these years, because the children have become like little sheep, seemingly afraid to participate, to shout out, have some fun, heckle (children's magic is all about kvetching and participation between performer and audience), to join in.
It makes one wonder what has happened, where the "wonder" has gone for these kids, the natural instincts to "cut up" and be a kid. What has changed?
Maybe his looks and style?
| 263 |
webevintage Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:41:17am |
It seems like I've read a couple of articles about a few of these pharmacies that refuse to fill BC and "morning after pills" going out of business in the end because there just are not enough "true believers" to keep them in business.
reine, I feel so bad for your daughter's friend. Just like no woman should ever be forced to continue a pregnancy neither should anyone be forced to terminate one.
That's a family that is going to have issues for the rest of their lives.
| 264 |
What, me worry? Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:41:29am |
re: #258 Walter L. Newton
Take this for what it's worth. I was on the phone with a fellow magician this morning, I hadn't talked to him for probably 7-8 years, he lives in a major city in Texas, someone who has made a living for the last 40 years at magic, primarily in the restaurant, corporate and trade show and children's events business.
He says he has had to change up his children's show material after all these years, because the children have become like little sheep, seemingly afraid to participate, to shout out, have some fun, heckle (children's magic is all about kvetching and participation between performer and audience), to join in.
It makes one wonder what has happened, where the "wonder" has gone for these kids, the natural instincts to "cut up" and be a kid. What has changed?
Video games. It's stripped children of imagination.
I'm not against video games, but there has to be a balance and if it's easier to plop a kid down with a game, parents take that route.
| 265 |
DaddyG Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:42:04am |
re: #258 Walter L. Newton
It makes one wonder what has happened, where the "wonder" has gone for these kids, the natural instincts to "cut up" and be a kid. What has changed?
My take:
1) Overstimulated and jaded... they have every kind of passive entertainment they could want with a gazillion TV channels, instant comunication and entertainment with ipods and phones, Wiis and Playstations, etc.
2) Exhausted... kids are running from activity to activity these days with very little free play time.
3) Zero tolerence... There is little or no interplay between kids and adults in the classroom and cutting up is seen as a horrible offense. Kids are being sent to the principle and even the police if they say the wrong thing in jest.
| 266 |
Varek Raith Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:42:05am |
re: #258 Walter L. Newton
To me, it seems that kids just don't know how to have fun anymore.
My $0.02
| 267 |
tnguitarist Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:43:49am |
re: #258 Walter L. Newton
Take this for what it's worth. I was on the phone with a fellow magician this morning, I hadn't talked to him for probably 7-8 years, he lives in a major city in Texas, someone who has made a living for the last 40 years at magic, primarily in the restaurant, corporate and trade show and children's events business.
He says he has had to change up his children's show material after all these years, because the children have become like little sheep, seemingly afraid to participate, to shout out, have some fun, heckle (children's magic is all about kvetching and participation between performer and audience), to join in.
It makes one wonder what has happened, where the "wonder" has gone for these kids, the natural instincts to "cut up" and be a kid. What has changed?
Ritalin.
| 268 |
abolitionist Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:44:07am |
re: #258 Walter L. Newton
Take this for what it's worth. I was on the phone with a fellow magician this morning, I hadn't talked to him for probably 7-8 years, he lives in a major city in Texas, someone who has made a living for the last 40 years at magic, primarily in the restaurant, corporate and trade show and children's events business.
He says he has had to change up his children's show material after all these years, because the children have become like little sheep, seemingly afraid to participate, to shout out, have some fun, heckle (children's magic is all about kvetching and participation between performer and audience), to join in.
It makes one wonder what has happened, where the "wonder" has gone for these kids, the natural instincts to "cut up" and be a kid. What has changed?
When my children were in school there were rules against talking in the hallways. Maybe it was to cope with near-zero sound adsorption materials there. Seemed terribly oppressive.
| 269 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:44:15am |
Report: French synagogue gets letter with death threats, bullets
A Paris synagogue on Wednesday received a letter marked with a swastika containing bullets and death threats against Jews, French News Agency AFP reported.
The synagogue in Drancy was erected in place of an infamous transit camp from which Jews were sent to death camps during World War II.
More than 65,000 Jews were deported from Drancy during the Holocaust, of whom 63,000 were murdered.
The train station at Drancy, which was turned into a memorial site in 196, has been the target of anti-Semitic attacks over the years. In April last year a swastika was spray painted on one of the train cars used to transport the French Jews.
On July 27, gravestones at Jewish cemetery Wolfisheim in eastern France were smashed or overturned by vandals.
Jewish grave sites around France are attacked sporadically by vandals, who leave gravestones broken or sprayed with anti-Semitic slogans.
In 2004, vandals painted swastikas and other anti-Semitic graffiti on headstones at a Jewish cemetery in eastern France, an act that drew the swift condemnation of the government.
During the last decade France has suffered a wave of violence against Jewish schools, synagogues and cemeteries that coincided with fighting in the Middle East. Many of the attacks have been blamed on young Muslims.
| 270 |
mcspiff Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:44:52am |
re: #258 Walter L. Newton
Take this for what it's worth. I was on the phone with a fellow magician this morning, I hadn't talked to him for probably 7-8 years, he lives in a major city in Texas, someone who has made a living for the last 40 years at magic, primarily in the restaurant, corporate and trade show and children's events business.
He says he has had to change up his children's show material after all these years, because the children have become like little sheep, seemingly afraid to participate, to shout out, have some fun, heckle (children's magic is all about kvetching and participation between performer and audience), to join in.
It makes one wonder what has happened, where the "wonder" has gone for these kids, the natural instincts to "cut up" and be a kid. What has changed?
They get yelled at for it. In schools, the format is now more lecture than interaction. Parents drive kids from school to friends to parks. They aren't allowed independence. People can blame video games all they want, but I'm fairly certain that's kids making the best of a bad situation.
| 271 |
webevintage Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:44:54am |
re: #259 deranged cat
Michael Ian Black says "you're a fucking moron" to an audience member.
"There was no reason to meet your idiocy with my own, even though you are a fucking moron."
awesome....
| 272 |
DaddyG Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:46:07am |
re: #268 abolitionist
When my children were in school there were rules against talking in the hallways. Maybe it was to cope with near-zero sound adsorption materials there. Seemed terribly oppressive.
I was stunned upon my first visit to the county lockup (as a visitor :-p ) and found the hallways were constructed with the same cinderblocks and institutional paint colors like nicotine white.
The rules were pretty much the same too.
| 273 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:47:10am |
re: #261 deranged cat
you're a magician?? thats awesome!
hey, did the guy mention those kids playing on their iphones or nintendo DS or PSPs? i think that's been a big problem with kids now-a-days too.
In the sense that I guess you're never "not" a magician, yes. As far as pulling down any salary from the profession anymore, no. I use to work the typical clubs and events back in New Jersey and then Dallas. In Dallas, I switched from performing to producing, putting themed magic shows into state fairs, outdoor amusement venues and indoor amusement centers.
Since I moved to the Denver area 20 years ago, I haven't ventured into any performing or producing magic. I had a few magic booklets on the market and some magic effects on the market back in the 70's-80's, but now I just drag out the act for an occasional event, usually gratis.
| 274 |
Spare O'Lake Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:47:16am |
| 275 |
lawhawk Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:47:26am |
Russell Simmons lets his views on Cordoba House be known.
His loft overlooks Ground Zero and is down the block from the former Deutshce Bank building.
| 276 |
webevintage Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:47:59am |
re: #266 Varek Raith
To me, it seems that kids just don't know how to have fun anymore.
My $0.02
In someways I think that is true.
Most kids lives are so over scheduled (and a lot of it things the parents thinks their kids should be doing, not things the kids want to do) that they do not have anytime to just be kids and play and daydream and wander around outside and walk in the words and play make believe.
| 277 |
sagehen Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:48:27am |
amusing horse names makes for amusing homestretch call:
| 278 |
alexknyc Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:49:10am |
re: #272 DaddyG
I was stunned upon my first visit to the county lockup (as a visitor :-p ) and found the hallways were constructed with the same cinderblocks and institutional paint colors like nicotine white.
The rules were pretty much the same too.
Here in NYC, the public schools have bars and gates on the windows, security and metal detectors at the front door, paved yards with basketball hoops at either end and are surrounded by a large fence.
All that's missing is the barbed wire and guard towers.
I refer to them as the "pre-incarceration program."
| 279 |
Stanghazi Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:49:27am |
| 280 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:50:36am |
| 281 |
DaddyG Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:50:40am |
| 282 |
Varek Raith Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:50:45am |
re: #279 Stanley Sea
I like how the banner of the cross says "athiests too"
Yet, nothing about the Sith.
Jerks.
/
| 283 |
alexknyc Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:51:40am |
| 284 |
DaddyG Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:52:51am |
| 285 |
iossarian Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:53:22am |
| 286 |
lawhawk Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:53:56am |
re: #280 NJDhockeyfan
One of the biggest hip hop moguls in the world. His brother was in Run DMC, and he owns Def Jam Records, Phat Farm clothes, and is worth over $340 million.
| 287 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:53:58am |
re: #262 Spare O'Lake
re: #264 marjoriemoon
re: #265 DaddyG
re: #266 Varek Raith
re: #268 abolitionist
re: #270 mcspiff
All very interesting answers. And probably all contain a modicum of truth. What's interesting is, I know performance, I know what sells almost across the board, and that's what any good variety artist still sells to this day, we know what works 99 percent of the time, and in most situations, it still does.
But times do change. This performer is still doing tried and true material for his adult gigs, and nothing has changed in that area, he still has then in the palm of his hand.
And honestly, this is a professional who knows how to work an audience, he could literally raise the dead if needed.
But, times change, and he went into detail of how he is changing up his children's material after all these years. I told him it may be a loosing battle.
I bet you don't think so much about your age until something like this comes along and it hits home.
Just an observation.
| 288 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:55:09am |
| 289 |
lawhawk Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:57:04am |
re: #282 Varek Raith
These aren't the mosques you're looking for . /
| 290 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Aug 25, 2010 8:58:34am |
Muslim Brotherhood starts own social networking site
The Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt's influential Islamist opposition movement, will launch its own social networking site next month to promote moderate Islam, an official said on Wednesday.
Ikhwanbook.com, which is already up, was created by the Brotherhood's headquarters in Cairo to "promote moderate Islam and clarify who we are," said politburo member Mohammed Mursi.
The website, which has already attracted 5,000 members on a trial basis, will be formally launched next month after more technical work on it, he said.
It is open to anyone, but will not allow "indecent" groups to be created.
| 291 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:02:02am |
re: #258 Walter L. Newton
Take this for what it's worth. I was on the phone with a fellow magician this morning, I hadn't talked to him for probably 7-8 years, he lives in a major city in Texas, someone who has made a living for the last 40 years at magic, primarily in the restaurant, corporate and trade show and children's events business.
He says he has had to change up his children's show material after all these years, because the children have become like little sheep, seemingly afraid to participate, to shout out, have some fun, heckle (children's magic is all about kvetching and participation between performer and audience), to join in.
It makes one wonder what has happened, where the "wonder" has gone for these kids, the natural instincts to "cut up" and be a kid. What has changed?
Television? Outside of MST3000-like activities TV is a fairly non-interactive medium. You watch, it entertains.
| 292 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:02:04am |
Interesting... when all the climate change emails and documents were hacked from the server at the university, all hell broke loose about how terrible it was that the stuff was leaked, how it was politics, a concerted effort to bring down climate science, especially on the left, people were outraged.
And yet we hear crickets from the left in regards to the Wikileaks documents. Well, "Dr. Evil" is ready to do it again...
WikiLeaks to release CIA paper on Wednesday
I wonder how much we are going to hear about how people may die because of these leaks. Anyone wanna take bets?
| 293 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:03:00am |
re: #266 Varek Raith
To me, it seems that kids just don't know how to have fun anymore.
My $0.02
Little jedi in the making... ;)
| 294 |
mcspiff Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:04:06am |
re: #292 Walter L. Newton
Interesting... when all the climate change emails and documents were hacked from the server at the university, all hell broke loose about how terrible it was that the stuff was leaked, how it was politics, a concerted effort to bring down climate science, especially on the left, people were outraged.
And yet we hear crickets from the left in regards to the Wikileaks documents. Well, "Dr. Evil" is ready to do it again...
WikiLeaks to release CIA paper on Wednesday
I wonder how much we are going to hear about how people may die because of these leaks. Anyone wanna take bets?
As a lefty somewhat well versed in security measures, I think wikileaks is absolutely disgusting. Clear cut case of treason to me.
| 295 |
DaddyG Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:05:11am |
re: #292 Walter L. Newton
The CIA has an enemy agent spilling their secrets and the best they can do is a trumped up rape charge that gets tossed from the court. In the old days he would have disappered off the coast of nowhere... //
| 296 |
RogueOne Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:09:53am |
re: #295 DaddyG
The CIA couldn't find their own asses using both hands.
| 297 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:10:31am |
re: #292 Walter L. Newton
Interesting... when all the climate change emails and documents were hacked from the server at the university, all hell broke loose about how terrible it was that the stuff was leaked, how it was politics, a concerted effort to bring down climate science, especially on the left, people were outraged.
And yet we hear crickets from the left in regards to the Wikileaks documents. Well, "Dr. Evil" is ready to do it again...
WikiLeaks to release CIA paper on Wednesday
I wonder how much we are going to hear about how people may die because of these leaks. Anyone wanna take bets?
I bet it's more likely we hear demands for murder prosecutions on our troops listed in the military documents.
| 298 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:12:13am |
Separated at birth
Mark McKinney´s (Brain Candy - Don Roritor)
Image: dr+evil+brain+candy+lorne+michaels.jpg
Assange
Image: story.assange.gi.jpg
| 299 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:12:33am |
Alaska man gets 8 years in prison for hit list
A man from a remote Alaska community who compiled a hit list of targets he believed were enemies of Islam was sentenced Monday to eight years in prison.
Paul Rockwood Jr., along with his wife, Nadia Rockwood, faced counts of lying to FBI agents when questioned about the list of 20 targets in May. They pleaded guilty to domestic terrorism last month, the first time such charges were brought in Alaska under the Patriot Act. The law was enacted after the Sept. 11 terrorism attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
The length of Paul Rockwood's sentence was the maximum penalty for the crime. Nadia Rockwood, 36, who holds dual citizenship in the U.S. and United Kingdom, was sentenced to five years probation. She will be allowed to return to Britain and take care of the couple's 4-year-old child. She is due to give birth in November.
Authorities said Paul Rockwood, 35, of King Salmon, converted to Islam about a decade ago and followed the teachings of a cleric who supports acts of terrorism and espouses hatred for the United States. The hit list included members of the military and media.
| 300 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:14:14am |
re: #298 Walter L. Newton
Separated at birth
Mark McKinney´s (Brain Candy - Don Roritor)
Image: dr+evil+brain+candy+lorne+michaels.jpgAssange
Image: story.assange.gi.jpg
Try again.
| 302 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:17:20am |
Again... separated at birth...
Mark McKinney (from Brain Candy)
Image: dr+evil+brain+candy+lorne+michaels.jpg
Assange
| 303 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:18:09am |
re: #302 Walter L. Newton
Never mind... I can't seem to get the image of Mark McKinney to load.
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DaddyG Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:20:03am |
re: #299 NJDhockeyfan
"Federal authorities say Rockwood did far more than make a list. He considered the possibility of shooting people in the head. He began researching how to make explosive components, construct remote triggering devices and put together a bomb that could be delivered by any mail carrier, court documents say."
I was gonna say something about free speech even for idiots but nevermind... The guy deserves a large time out. Too bad he could be a celebrity among some of his fellow inmates.
| 305 |
DaddyG Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:24:36am |
I turned on MasterSpy just in time to see Charles cleaning up troll droppings. A bloggers work is never done.
| 306 |
tnguitarist Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:29:55am |
re: #303 Walter L. Newton
Never mind... I can't seem to get the image of Mark McKinney to load.
Brain Candy growing on ya?
| 307 |
deranged cat Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:34:18am |
re: #292 Walter L. Newton
i think it has to do with many right-wing people having passionate beliefs, and defend them tooth-and-nail. if anything comes out that reaffirms their belief, they yell louder than anybody. (ex. climate change denial, as you mentioned/birthers/marxism/socialism/tea party/ etc etc)
| 308 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:35:02am |
This is creepy....
| 309 |
William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:36:15am |
re: #265 DaddyG
3) Zero tolerence... There is little or no interplay between kids and adults in the classroom and cutting up is seen as a horrible offense. Kids are being sent to the principle and even the police if they say the wrong thing in jest.
I believe this is the biggest part of the problem. Especially this as there is zero spare time in classrooms due to the "Every Child Left Behind" teach to the test requirements. All you have to do is google the various proposals to do away with non-essentials like music and recess to see where these kids are at.
| 310 |
webevintage Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:36:51am |
Interesting:
Job Losses Over Drilling Ban Fail to Materialize
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
| 311 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:38:53am |
Shocka!
ISI's veiled support to Taliban could spell serious trouble for Pak
A recent report in The New York Times revealed Pakistan's wicked face describing how the Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) conned the Central Investigation Agency (CIA) to nab the Taliban's second-in command Mullah Baradar.
The NYT report quoted one Pakistani official as saying, "We protect the Taliban. They are dependent on us. We are not going to allow them to make a deal with Karzai and the Indians," which clearly showcases the country's original motive behind arresting Baradar, however, an editorial in a Pakistani daily has warned that the move could have serious implications.
The editorial in The Daily Times said the ISI's covert support to the Taliban in order to push through its own regional strategies could backfire big time.
"What the ISI does not realise is that by supporting the Afghan Taliban and considering them 'Good Taliban', they run the risk of putting Pakistan in danger once again," it stressed.
While highlighting the apparent nexus between the Afghan and the Pakistan Taliban, the editorial said that Islamabad can ill afford to run away from the threat posed by these extremist units.
"The nexus between the Afghan Taliban and the Pakistani Taliban can no longer be ignored or wished away. If the Taliban come back to power in Afghanistan, the blowback on our security could be very serious," it said.
| 312 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:39:56am |
re: #307 deranged cat
i think it has to do with many right-wing people having passionate beliefs, and defend them tooth-and-nail. if anything comes out that reaffirms their belief, they yell louder than anybody. (ex. climate change denial, as you mentioned/birthers/marxism/socialism/tea party/ etc etc)
I see... the left is quietly protesting the stealing of these documents. Are you really trying to tell me that's your excuse for the fact that the left has made nary a peep about the danger that this could put our fighting men and women in?
Stop pissing on my and trying to tell me it's raining.
| 313 |
Slap Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:41:53am |
re: #254 Spare O'Lake
Problem with this, as rational as it seems, is rural areas where a) doctors are relatively scarce, b) pharmacies are limited, at best and c) the majority of the local population supports the pharmacist's "right" to ignore the canons of a profession they willingly entered -- with all of its requirements and painful individual choices.
(As I recall, the Hippocratic Oath says "do no harm", not "do no harm to your precious individual belief system regardless of the patient.")
In other words, I believe in most areas with decent-sized populations, I agree -- the way you describe it should be sufficient.
But in bumfuck, kansas, pop. 1374, things get different. And people get hurt.
| 314 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:42:09am |
re: #310 webevintage
Interesting:
Job Losses Over Drilling Ban Fail to Materialize
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
I trust Reine more than the NYT when it comes to stories on rig jobs considering she is on the front lines of this subject.
| 315 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:43:16am |
I've had enough of nature. Last year, I had the feral pigs tearing up the ground and terrorizing The Kid, our cat and the neighbors. This summer, I called the cops on the neighbor who was shooting turtles in his lake. Last week I was bitten by a spider.
Today, I hoed a cotton-mouth in half, and my yard guy killed an opossum that did not lie down and "play possum" when he found it. Instead, it reared up, spat at him and hissed. So, the county folks are coming to collect the body to test it for rabies.
The neighbor's dogs still roam my yard and poop everywhere despite the leash law and despite my calling the cops and animal control. (The little fuck's an attorney who ran for a judgeship and a seat in Congress and lost BOTH after spending copious amounts of his own money.)
Gonna' move to the city to get some peace and quiet. The deer, squirrels and fluffy bunnies will miss me, though: no more tender plants to eat in the spring.
| 316 |
mcspiff Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:43:46am |
re: #312 Walter L. Newton
I see... the left is quietly protesting the stealing of these documents. Are you really trying to tell me that's your excuse for the fact that the left has made nary a peep about the danger that this could put our fighting men and women in?
Stop pissing on my and trying to tell me it's raining.
The left has totally dropped the ball on this one. If these documents showed a policy of...I don't know, deliberate ethnic cleansing in Afghanistan or something of that nature I'd say fine, that was a legitimate act of whistle blowing. But it seems like many seem to think it was justified to leak these documents simply because they were classified in the first place. Its an on going hate of the US military and NATO from certain circles, and a media desperate to get the next "scoop"
| 317 |
webevintage Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:46:47am |
re: #315 MandyManners
Today, I hoed a cotton-mouth in half, and my yard guy killed an opossum that did not lie down and "play possum" when he found it. Instead, it reared up, spat at him and hissed. So, the county folks are coming to collect the body to test it for rabies.
That is some scary shit.
When we first moved out we killed a good amount of copperheads but never a cotton-mouth (and ugh, they scare the fuck out of me) but it seem that the more grass we cut and the more cats we collect the less snakes I see. I've had 2 years now (knock on wood) with no snake sightings.
| 318 |
garhighway Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:48:50am |
re: #305 DaddyG
I turned on MasterSpy just in time to see Charles cleaning up troll droppings. A bloggers work is never done.
They love dead threads.
| 319 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:49:23am |
re: #317 webevintage
That is some scary shit.
When we first moved out we killed a good amount of copperheads but never a cotton-mouth (and ugh, they scare the fuck out of me) but it seem that the more grass we cut and the more cats we collect the less snakes I see. I've had 2 years now (knock on wood) with no snake sightings.
I only see black snakes around here. I leave them alone, they eat mice.
| 320 |
webevintage Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:49:40am |
re: #314 Cannadian Club Akbar
I trust Reine more than the NYT when it comes to stories on rig jobs considering she is on the front lines of this subject.
So it does not matter that:
Yet the worst of those forecasts has failed to materialize, as companies wait to see how long the moratorium will last before making critical decisions on spending cuts and layoffs. Unemployment claims related to the oil industry along the Gulf Coast have been in the hundreds, not the thousands, and while oil production from the gulf is down because of the drilling halt, supplies from the region are expected to rebound in future years. Only 2 of the 33 deepwater rigs operating in the gulf before the BP rig exploded have left for other fields.
I think Reine knows what she is talking about to, but that does not mean that what was forecasted to happen has not happened.
Should we not be glad about that?
| 321 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:50:32am |
re: #316 mcspiff
The left has totally dropped the ball on this one. If these documents showed a policy of...I don't know, deliberate ethnic cleansing in Afghanistan or something of that nature I'd say fine, that was a legitimate act of whistle blowing. But it seems like many seem to think it was justified to leak these documents simply because they were classified in the first place. Its an on going hate of the US military and NATO from certain circles, and a media desperate to get the next "scoop"
And this brings up what I consider a bigger issue. The fact that there ISN'T "outrage" from all sides of the political spectrum AND that we have become so partisan that someone like Deranged Cat can actually use the excuse that the left is less passionate about issues like this, so that's why they have been silent. Give me a fucking break.
(I don't expect a reply, I just venting)
| 322 |
elbruce Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:51:26am |
re: #312 Walter L. Newton
I see... the left is quietly protesting the stealing of these documents. Are you really trying to tell me that's your excuse for the fact that the left has made nary a peep about the danger that this could put our fighting men and women in?
As somebody on the left who hasn't been particularly protest-y about WikiLeaks, I'm still waiting to have that danger spelled out. I get that it could put them in danger, based on what I know, which is pretty much nothing. But it was my impression that these were pretty old reports. Is any of that information actionable?
Have there been any incidents caused by the WikiLeaks released? If that happened, I'm perfectly prepared to be loudly outraged.
| 323 |
iossarian Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:53:27am |
re: #316 mcspiff
The left has totally dropped the ball on this one. If these documents showed a policy of...I don't know, deliberate ethnic cleansing in Afghanistan or something of that nature I'd say fine, that was a legitimate act of whistle blowing. But it seems like many seem to think it was justified to leak these documents simply because they were classified in the first place. Its an on going hate of the US military and NATO from certain circles, and a media desperate to get the next "scoop"
Way to be "moderate"! If it was hundreds of thousands of people being exterminated, then sure, release the data! But since it's just a few kids and women being raped and then shot in the head, the Great God of Oil and War demands we turn a blind eye.
Bullshit.
And to Walter's original point, the answer, as always, is that it simply comes down to which side* you're on.
*Of course there is more than one side, and people may take different sides on different issues.
| 324 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:54:27am |
re: #320 webevintage
Well I'll put it this way: The moratorium if fucking stoopid. And I don't believe the NYT. They have an agenda. Kinda like Fox News, which everyone likes to pile on.
| 325 |
Claire Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:54:40am |
re: #322 elbruce
Have there been any incidents caused by the WikiLeaks released? If that happened, I'm perfectly prepared to be loudly outraged.
How would anybody ever know? We hardly hear about anything that happens over there in real time in the first place.
| 326 |
mcspiff Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:55:45am |
re: #322 elbruce
As somebody on the left who hasn't been particularly protest-y about WikiLeaks, I'm still waiting to have that danger spelled out. I get that it could put them in danger, based on what I know, which is pretty much nothing. But it was my impression that these were pretty old reports. Is any of that information actionable?
Have there been any incidents caused by the WikiLeaks released? If that happened, I'm perfectly prepared to be loudly outraged.
Yes, there are actionable items in these reports. It revealed that specific Taliban tactics that we had downplayed as being ineffective were actually rather effective. Things like causality numbers from attacks can be used to identify weaknesses. These will very much assist the Taliban in planning future attacks.
Also outlined cooperation between locals and NATO forces that the Taliban otherwise would not have known. Wikileaks retracted the western names but left the Afghan ones in.
Its not a silver bullet for the Taliban, but it was an intelligence boon. People will almost certainly die from this leak.
| 327 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:56:14am |
re: #315 MandyManners
I've had enough of nature. Last year, I had the feral pigs tearing up the ground and terrorizing The Kid, our cat and the neighbors. This summer, I called the cops on the neighbor who was shooting turtles in his lake. Last week I was bitten by a spider.
Today, I hoed a cotton-mouth in half, and my yard guy killed an opossum that did not lie down and "play possum" when he found it. Instead, it reared up, spat at him and hissed. So, the county folks are coming to collect the body to test it for rabies.
The neighbor's dogs still roam my yard and poop everywhere despite the leash law and despite my calling the cops and animal control. (The little fuck's an attorney who ran for a judgeship and a seat in Congress and lost BOTH after spending copious amounts of his own money.)
Gonna' move to the city to get some peace and quiet. The deer, squirrels and fluffy bunnies will miss me, though: no more tender plants to eat in the spring.
Heh. Drop Dragon_Lady a line she might just want to swap housing. The only animals around here are our cats and the stray gang banger.
| 328 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:56:30am |
re: #317 webevintage
That is some scary shit.
When we first moved out we killed a good amount of copperheads but never a cotton-mouth (and ugh, they scare the fuck out of me) but it seem that the more grass we cut and the more cats we collect the less snakes I see. I've had 2 years now (knock on wood) with no snake sightings.
I have woods and a creek so I can't keep all nature at bay.
| 329 |
elbruce Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:56:48am |
re: #325 Claire
How would anybody ever know? We hardly hear about anything that happens over there in real time in the first place.
It's the classic information-security strange loop:
"Everything should be kept secret!"
"Why?"
"That's a secret!"
*shrug*
| 330 |
Kragar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:56:50am |
re: #322 elbruce
As somebody on the left who hasn't been particularly protest-y about WikiLeaks, I'm still waiting to have that danger spelled out. I get that it could put them in danger, based on what I know, which is pretty much nothing. But it was my impression that these were pretty old reports. Is any of that information actionable?
Have there been any incidents caused by the WikiLeaks released? If that happened, I'm perfectly prepared to be loudly outraged.
I believe they said their have been some killings in villages of locals who had been helping allied forces whose names were in the documents.
| 331 |
Varek Raith Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:57:10am |
re: #328 MandyManners
I have woods and a creek so I can't keep all nature at bay.
Flame thrower.
Yep.
:)
| 332 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:57:15am |
re: #319 NJDhockeyfan
I only see black snakes around here. I leave them alone, they eat mice.
You don't leave cotton-mouths alone.
| 333 |
Kragar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:57:43am |
| 334 |
mcspiff Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:58:03am |
re: #323 iossarian
No you stupid fuck, that's not what I'm saying at all. If there was specific crimes committed, you deal with them through the UCMJ. If the entire Op is secretly a crime, you leak.
| 335 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:58:43am |
re: #322 elbruce
As somebody on the left who hasn't been particularly protest-y about WikiLeaks, I'm still waiting to have that danger spelled out. I get that it could put them in danger, based on what I know, which is pretty much nothing. But it was my impression that these were pretty old reports. Is any of that information actionable?
Have there been any incidents caused by the WikiLeaks released? If that happened, I'm perfectly prepared to be loudly outraged.
So, it'll take a few dead Afghanistan sources for you to be outraged?
| 336 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 25, 2010 9:59:46am |
re: #327 Rightwingconspirator
Heh. Drop Dragon_Lady a line she might just want to swap housing. The only animals around here are our cats and the stray gang banger.
On second thought, I'll stay put.
| 337 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:00:14am |
| 338 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:00:48am |
re: #336 MandyManners
On second thought, I'll stay put.
Just stay put. And buy a pellet gun for the stray dogs. They'll learn.
| 339 |
mcspiff Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:00:55am |
re: #335 MandyManners
So, it'll take a few dead Afghanistan sources for you to be outraged?
I like talking about Afghanistan with you. We get to actually agree on something.
| 340 |
webevintage Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:01:12am |
re: #328 MandyManners
I have woods and a creek so I can't keep all nature at bay.
Luckily we have no year round water so the cotton mouths stay away.
You are an awesome woman since that is a snake I fear and would probably run away from instead of getting the hoe out.
And yeah, other people's dogs and their lack of control is the bane of living in the country.
| 341 |
elbruce Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:01:35am |
re: #326 mcspiff
Yes, there are actionable items in these reports. It revealed that specific Taliban tactics that we had downplayed as being ineffective were actually rather effective. Things like causality numbers from attacks can be used to identify weaknesses. These will very much assist the Taliban in planning future attacks.
Well, we've got the same information they do, and we know what information they've got. Given the military intelligence and analysis ability at our disposal, I think it might even be possible to lead them into a trap if they take the leaked info at face value.
re: #326 mcspiff
Also outlined cooperation between locals and NATO forces that the Taliban otherwise would not have known. Wikileaks retracted the western names but left the Afghan ones in.
Yeesh, that's bad. Those people should be warned ASAP, if not moved. I'd like to look into that a bit more, got a link?
| 342 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:01:51am |
re: #312 Walter L. Newton
I see... the left is quietly protesting the stealing of these documents. Are you really trying to tell me that's your excuse for the fact that the left has made nary a peep about the danger that this could put our fighting men and women in?
Stop pissing on my and trying to tell me it's raining.
It's not a matter of Lefty acquiesence in the release of classified. But how do you protest an offshore, foreign-run chunk of the intertubes? Do I wave a sign in front of a webcam? I'm a good bit pissed at the DoD for poor HUMINT management of the dipshit who released our stuff and certainly reduced our effectiveness/probably endangered some good guys.
| 343 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:02:39am |
re: #338 Cannadian Club Akbar
Just stay put. And buy a pellet gun for the stray dogs. They'll learn.
They're not strays. They're the neighbors. Besides, I don't blame them for doing what dogs do. I still think about giving back his animals' poop.
| 344 |
iossarian Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:02:41am |
re: #334 mcspiff
No you stupid fuck, that's not what I'm saying at all. If there was specific crimes committed, you deal with them through the UCMJ. If the entire Op is secretly a crime, you leak.
The UCMJ? How do you intend to hold them accountable?
Why is it that people have this unquestioning trust in the military? It's especially galling since it's often people who think that the government is out to eat their babies (I know that's not the case with you, but still).
| 345 |
lawhawk Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:02:43am |
This is neat. Nate Silver is now blogging at the NYT.
| 346 |
elbruce Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:02:53am |
re: #335 MandyManners
So, it'll take a few dead Afghanistan sources for you to be outraged?
I'm just saying I'd need to know whether it amounted to anything before I decide whether it amounts to anything.
| 347 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:03:02am |
re: #339 mcspiff
I like talking about Afghanistan with you. We get to actually agree on something.
*swoon*
| 348 |
webevintage Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:03:11am |
For folks who pay attention to these things there are a couple of recent posts on the CBO's blog that are interesting:
[Link: cboblog.cbo.gov...]
| 349 |
Kragar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:03:34am |
Rush said this morning that it was the evil Liberal Media that was painting the Russians as the enemy during the cold war all those years, that the poor right wing was duped into it.
| 350 |
garhighway Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:03:44am |
Interesting piece in the WSJ today (demonstrating that they still do some long-form journalism well) about the recent meeting of the Fed's Open Markets Committee.
[Link: online.wsj.com...]
| 351 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:03:54am |
re: #343 MandyManners
They're not strays. They're the neighbors. Besides, I don't blame them for doing what dogs do. I still think about giving back his animals' poop.
Paper bag. Porch. Fire. Ring bell. Run. Heh.
| 352 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:04:10am |
re: #340 webevintage
Luckily we have no year round water so the cotton mouths stay away.
You are an awesome woman since that is a snake I fear and would probably run away from instead of getting the hoe out.
And yeah, other people's dogs and their lack of control is the bane of living in the country.
I figured it was better that I do the deed than to let it kill The Kid. If I'd had my DE .50, I'd have blasted it to smithereens.
| 353 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:05:12am |
re: #346 elbruce
I'm just saying I'd need to know whether it amounted to anything before I decide whether it amounts to anything.
A dead body is what it will take for you to know that it "amounted to anything"? Good grief. Pretty fucking callous.
| 354 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:05:45am |
re: #349 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Rush said this morning that it was the evil Liberal Media that was painting the Russians as the enemy during the cold war all those years, that the poor right wing was duped into it.
What the fuck is that fucking moron smoking?
| 355 |
mcspiff Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:06:12am |
re: #341 elbruce
Well, we've got the same information they do, and we know what information they've got. Given the military intelligence and analysis ability at our disposal, I think it might even be possible to lead them into a trap if they take the leaked info at face value.
Depends what they can figure out. If they learn that American APCs seem to have a certain weak spot in the armor, well not much we can do about that in the short term. I think the example I heard about was a certain style of attack on helicopters. Hard to find a silver lining in that.
Yeesh, that's bad. Those people should be warned ASAP, if not moved. I'd like to look into that a bit more, got a link?
As Mandy said, some are already dead. Dont have a link at the moment, sorry.
| 356 |
Kragar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:06:14am |
re: #351 Cannadian Club Akbar
Paper bag. Porch. Fire. Ring bell. Run. Heh.
Dang it Martha! Its another one of those flaming bags!
Don't put it out with your boots Stan.
Don't tell me my business, devil woman. ITS POOP AGAIN!
Oh my god, he called the shit poop!
/name the film
| 357 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:06:43am |
re: #351 Cannadian Club Akbar
Paper bag. Porch. Fire. Ring bell. Run. Heh.
Takes me back to my youth.
The adult version involves a shovel. One load at a time.
| 358 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:07:13am |
re: #356 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Ya got me. No idea.
| 359 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:07:32am |
re: #346 elbruce
I'm just saying I'd need to know whether it amounted to anything before I decide whether it amounts to anything.
Were you bothered by the hacked emails and documents from the CRU?
| 360 |
mcspiff Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:07:38am |
re: #344 iossarian
The UCMJ? How do you intend to hold them accountable?
Why is it that people have this unquestioning trust in the military? It's especially galling since it's often people who think that the government is out to eat their babies (I know that's not the case with you, but still).
Its not unquestioning. The military has a justice system. It works. We've seen people charged for crimes committed in theater. Might be hard to see that through your own hate tho. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean its broken kiddo.
| 361 |
elbruce Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:08:09am |
I did find this regarding Afghanistani names in WikiLeaks.
Human rights groups have urged WikiLeaks to redact names of Afghans helping American forces from thousands of leaked US military documents, leading to a charged retort from the website's founder, the Wall Street Journal said Tuesday."We have seen the negative, sometimes deadly ramifications for those Afghans identified as working for or sympathizing with international forces," said a letter to WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, according to the Journal, citing a person close to the exchange.
...
Amnesty suggested they may be able to provide some resources to analyze the documents and some 15,000 other files that WikiLeaks is planning to release, and that Assange and the rights groups discuss the issue on a conference call.
"I'm very busy and have no time to deal with people who prefer to do nothing but cover their asses," Assange was reported to have replied.
OK, I'm now officially pissed at the asshole.
| 362 |
webevintage Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:08:17am |
re: #352 MandyManners
I figured it was better that I do the deed than to let it kill The Kid. If I'd had my DE .50, I'd have blasted it to smithereens.
I was once reprimanded by the folks who do wildlife rescue (which is a great and wonderful calling) that it was actually aginst the law to kill copperheads, that I should just remove them and put them back into my woods.
I was all "BUT my KID plays in the woods, that's why I kill the damn things when I find them...they are in my yard where my KID plays".
(not that i think a copper head could kill a healthy person,,, but still who wants their kid bit?)
| 363 |
Kragar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:08:29am |
re: #354 MandyManners
What the fuck is that fucking moron smoking?
He also claimed Imam Rauf was the new Alger Hiss, an Islamist spy being covered for by the Liberal media.
Kookoo.
| 364 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:08:59am |
| 365 |
Kragar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:09:06am |
| 366 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:09:54am |
re: #362 webevintage
I was once reprimanded by the folks who do wildlife rescue (which is a great and wonderful calling) that it was actually aginst the law to kill copperheads, that I should just remove them and put them back into my woods.
I was all "BUT my KID plays in the woods, that's why I kill the damn things when I find them...they are in my yard where my KID plays".
(not that i think a copper head could kill a healthy person,,, but still who wants their kid bit?)
The Three-S Approach: Shoot, shovel and shut up.
| 367 |
Four More Tears Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:10:30am |
| 368 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:10:38am |
re: #365 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Billy Madison
I only saw it once. Otherwise I would have known.:(
| 369 |
mcspiff Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:10:48am |
re: #359 Walter L. Newton
Were you bothered by the hacked emails and documents from the CRU?
I'm not gonna lie, I'm enjoying the fact that I hold consistent opinions right now. Makes discussing things with Walter much more enjoyable.
| 370 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:11:01am |
re: #363 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
He also claimed Imam Rauf was the new Alger Hiss, an Islamist spy being covered for by the Liberal media.
Kookoo.
Rush has a very good grasp of US and World history, but it's not this US, nor this World.
| 371 |
Varek Raith Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:11:05am |
re: #349 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Rush said this morning that it was the evil Liberal Media that was painting the Russians as the enemy during the cold war all those years, that the poor right wing was duped into it.
...
Huh?!
...
| 372 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:12:02am |
re: #369 mcspiff
I'm not gonna lie, I'm enjoying the fact that I hold consistent opinions right now. Makes discussing things with Walter much more enjoyable.
Yea... we've been agree more often than not, and even when we don't, I can't bring myself to get pissy.
| 373 |
iossarian Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:12:12am |
re: #360 mcspiff
Its not unquestioning. The military has a justice system. It works. We've seen people charged for crimes committed in theater. Might be hard to see that through your own hate tho. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean its broken kiddo.
Hmm. Your post basically starts by saying "it's not unquestioning", and then goes on to pose exactly zero questions of the system. "It works". "Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's broken".
So what exactly does your "questioning" of the system consist of?
PS Thanks for the patronizing tone. Always nice to know you've hit the mark.
| 374 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:13:17am |
Just got a security bulletin from The Kid's school. Due to certain events/backgrounds of some students' parents, all students, parents and people allowed to pick the students up are now required to get security badges. Adults must wear them at all times on campus. Oh, for fuck's sake. If it ain't one thing, it's another. IT'S 5:00 SOMEWHERE.
| 375 |
Kragar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:13:45am |
| 376 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:14:22am |
re: #372 Walter L. Newton
Yea... we've been agree more often than not, and even when we don't, I can't bring myself to get pissy.
Oh, c'mon, Walter! Yes you can! I have faith in you!
| 377 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:14:40am |
re: #374 MandyManners
Walk in. Throw the DE on the counter. Tell them you want your fucking security badge.
| 378 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:15:20am |
re: #375 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Well, both Islamists and Communists are enemies of freedom.
| 379 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:16:18am |
re: #377 Cannadian Club Akbar
Walk in. Throw the DE on the counter. Tell them you want your fucking security badge.
Oh, thank you for the laugh, CCA!
| 380 |
Varek Raith Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:16:41am |
re: #378 MandyManners
Well, both Islamists and Communists are enemies of freedom.
So, it would seem, are those opposed to this community center.
| 381 |
iossarian Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:16:53am |
Actually, I will say that Assange does strike me as something of an asshole. But the fact that it's left to an asshole to publish stuff like this is an indication that the system has failed.
| 382 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:17:50am |
| 383 |
mcspiff Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:17:55am |
re: #373 iossarian
Hmm. Your post basically starts by saying "it's not unquestioning", and then goes on to pose exactly zero questions of the system. "It works". "Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's broken".
So what exactly does your "questioning" of the system consist of?
PS Thanks for the patronizing tone. Always nice to know you've hit the mark.
Err, what?
If a crime is suspected, its reported, gets investigated, if there is grounds, it goes to a form of trial. Very similar system to the civilian world, just different bodies and rights involved. Generally the accused has less rights. Now if it was reported and never investigated I can see leaking. But you already know not all of those 90,000 documents document a crime, and you also have no idea how many were investigated.
How about instead of assuming the US Military is some sort of "evil, oil stealing god!!1!eleventity!" you actually look into how the world works, how the military works, and how its justice system works. If you have a problem with it after that we can have a discussion.
| 384 |
Kragar Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:18:16am |
re: #378 MandyManners
Well, both Islamists and Communists are enemies of freedom.
The people building the community center are not Radical Islamists, nor were all those dragged before McCarthy dangerous communists.
| 385 |
MandyManners Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:18:42am |
Gotta' go. County folks are here to get the body of the dead possum.
| 386 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:19:14am |
re: #374 MandyManners
Just got a security bulletin from The Kid's school. Due to certain events/backgrounds of some students' parents, all students, parents and people allowed to pick the students up are now required to get security badges. Adults must wear them at all times on campus. Oh, for fuck's sake. If it ain't one thing, it's another. IT'S 5:00 SOMEWHERE.
Forget the parents' histories. It should be harder to get a kid out of school than to shoplift a CD.
| 387 |
zora Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:20:03am |
| 388 |
mcspiff Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:20:19am |
re: #381 iossarian
Actually, I will say that Assange does strike me as something of an asshole. But the fact that it's left to an asshole to publish stuff like this is an indication that the system has failed.
It takes an asshole to publish internal documents that will get people killed I agree. Its a failure of the system that the leak was ever possible. And its a failure of the education system that people like you can't get your head out of your ass to see it. Better to cheer for the underdog and get to some enjoy some dead marines eh?
| 389 |
garhighway Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:23:32am |
| 390 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:27:31am |
re: #385 MandyManners
Gotta' go. County folks are here to get the body of the dead possum.
Do undead opossum play "live" when you surprise them?
| 391 |
iossarian Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:29:01am |
re: #388 mcspiff
It takes an asshole to publish internal documents that will get people killed I agree. Its a failure of the system that the leak was ever possible. And its a failure of the education system that people like you can't get your head out of your ass to see it. Better to cheer for the underdog and get to some enjoy some dead marines eh?
Oh, whatever. I don't cheer for anyone to get killed. Here's a novel thought: maybe if we stopped invading other countries in order to secure our oil supply, fewer people would die?
| 392 |
elbruce Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:29:23am |
re: #388 mcspiff
Its a failure of the system that the leak was ever possible.
Well, it's also a failure of the system that for so long, our military and intelligence agencies redact/censor/hid far more than would be necessary to save lives, up to and including things redacted solely to cover up a great many serious crimes.
So on the one hand we've got people who want to keep everything secret, including criminal activity, and on the other we have people who are happy to publish everything, including information that gets good people killed. What's missing is the rational approach between them.
| 393 |
mcspiff Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:30:07am |
re: #391 iossarian
Oh, whatever. I don't cheer for anyone to get killed. Here's a novel thought: maybe if we stopped invading other countries in order to secure our oil supply, fewer people would die?
We invaded Afghanistan for the oil? Are you fucking insane?
| 394 |
elbruce Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:30:46am |
re: #391 iossarian
Here's a novel thought: maybe if we stopped invading other countries in order to secure our oil supply, fewer people would die?
If we were talking about Iraq, I'd say that was an appropriate (if too little / too late) comment. Since we're talking about the country from which 9/11 was planned and executed, I don't think that it is.
| 395 |
webevintage Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:31:14am |
re: #390 oaktree
Do undead opossum play "live" when you surprise them?
We had one on the porch last year and it did fight back a bit (hissing, baring of teeth) when cornered by the dogs, but the next thing I knew it was laying there with a bite and I thought it was dead. Was able to get the dogs away and inside and when I went out to collect the body it had wandered off.
BUT better safe then sorry when it comes to rabies...
| 396 |
iossarian Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:32:11am |
re: #393 mcspiff
We invaded Afghanistan for the oil? Are you fucking insane?
No, the oil/natural gas is North of Afghanistan, but you need Afghanistan to get it out.
| 397 |
mcspiff Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:32:25am |
re: #392 elbruce
Well, it's also a failure of the system that for so long, our military and intelligence agencies redact/censor/hid far more than would be necessary to save lives, up to and including things redacted solely to cover up a great many serious crimes.
So on the one hand we've got people who want to keep everything secret, including criminal activity, and on the other we have people who are happy to publish everything, including information that gets good people killed. What's missing is the rational approach between them.
Hey I agree. I don't feel comfortable with some of the stuff that was classified in there, and I suspect some of it was done for convenience at the best. But leaking 90,000 documents with no real concern to content helps no ones and hurts many.
| 398 |
iossarian Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:32:50am |
re: #393 mcspiff
We invaded Afghanistan for the oil? Are you fucking insane?
Oh, and just so we're clear, what do YOU think we invaded Afghanistan for?
| 399 |
mcspiff Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:33:13am |
re: #396 iossarian
No, the oil/natural gas is North of Afghanistan, but you need Afghanistan to get it out.
So what was 9/11? Do we have a real live trufer in LGF?
| 400 |
mcspiff Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:34:31am |
re: #398 iossarian
Oh, and just so we're clear, what do YOU think we invaded Afghanistan for?
There's this guy, Osma bin Laden. He has a habit of attacking America. You might have head of him?
| 401 |
iossarian Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:35:17am |
re: #399 mcspiff
So what was 9/11? Do we have a real live trufer in LGF?
No - see my point above. I don't think anyone knew about 9/11 in advance, if that's what you mean. But I think that the idea that we've engaged in a decade-long conflict in order to catch a guy with dodgy kidneys is naive.
| 402 |
mcspiff Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:36:12am |
re: #401 iossarian
No - see my point above. I don't think anyone knew about 9/11 in advance, if that's what you mean. But I think that the idea that we've engaged in a decade-long conflict in order to catch a guy with dodgy kidneys is naive.
Alright, spell it out. Who do you think was responsible for what.
| 403 |
elbruce Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:37:33am |
re: #398 iossarian
Oh, and just so we're clear, what do YOU think we invaded Afghanistan for?
The Taliban refused to resopond to an extradition request for Al Qaeda following 9/11, insisting that they be allowed to try them according to Sharia law in-house. The notion that Al Qaeda should be able to present a legal defense that 9/11 was justified due to Jihad was unacceptable to us and to the rest of the world. This was all well documented at the time, and pretty much every country in the world agreed that invading Afghanistan was appropriate.
If you're going to claim that we invaded Afghanistan for its resources, then you'd have to go full-blown "truther" and also assert that we caused 9/11 ourselves in order to manufacture conditions that pretty much forced us to go in there.
| 404 |
elbruce Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:38:31am |
re: #401 iossarian
But I think that the idea that we've engaged in a decade-long conflict in order to catch a guy with dodgy kidneys is naive.
We were discussing why we went in, not how thorny it is to get out.
| 405 |
Ericus58 Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:39:08am |
re: #391 iossarian
Oh, whatever. I don't cheer for anyone to get killed. Here's a novel thought: maybe if we stopped invading other countries in order to secure our oil supply, fewer people would die?
*raises eyebrows*
Ah, now it starts to become clear the thinking of this one....
| 406 |
Varek Raith Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:40:07am |
re: #405 Ericus58
*raises eyebrows*
Ah, now it starts to become clear the thinking of this one...
I thought it was for the hot chicks, not oil1!1!
| 407 |
iossarian Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:40:14am |
re: #402 mcspiff
Alright, spell it out. Who do you think was responsible for what.
OK, here's what I think happened (roughly):
1) Osama attacks the US
2) George Bush finishes the goat story
3) George Bush decides to capture/kill Osama
4) We invade Afghanistan
5) It becomes clear (after about a year) that we're not going to catch/kill Osama all that easily
After 5 I'm not sure, but my educated guess based on observation of past history is that we decided that having a military presence in Afghanistan would provide us with an alternative means of securing an energy supply from central Asia.
Land wars are always about resources. If you think about how much the Afghanistan conflict has cost, I think you'll find that the same money invested in counter-intelligence would have been much more effective in preventing further terrorist attacks.
| 408 |
mcspiff Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:40:27am |
re: #405 Ericus58
*raises eyebrows*
Ah, now it starts to become clear the thinking of this one...
re: #401 iossarian
No - see my point above. I don't think anyone knew about 9/11 in advance, if that's what you mean. But I think that the idea that we've engaged in a decade-long conflict in order to catch a guy with dodgy kidneys is naive.
Maybe we'll get to see the rare hippie douche flounce. He'll ride back to mom's house on his fixed gear.
| 409 |
Ericus58 Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:41:24am |
re: #401 iossarian
No - see my point above. I don't think anyone knew about 9/11 in advance, if that's what you mean. But I think that the idea that we've engaged in a decade-long conflict in order to catch a guy with dodgy kidneys is naive.
Yep, we got a live one.....
| 410 |
sagehen Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:41:34am |
re: #381 iossarian
Actually, I will say that Assange does strike me as something of an asshole. But the fact that it's left to an asshole to publish stuff like this is an indication that the system has failed.
If it were a few targeted leaks about specific incidents, then you might have a point. But 15000 pages of Assange didn't even know what was in them... not so much.
| 411 |
mcspiff Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:41:46am |
re: #407 iossarian
OK, here's what I think happened (roughly):
1) Osama attacks the US
2) George Bush finishes the goat story
3) George Bush decides to capture/kill Osama
4) We invade Afghanistan
5) It becomes clear (after about a year) that we're not going to catch/kill Osama all that easilyAfter 5 I'm not sure, but my educated guess based on observation of past history is that we decided that having a military presence in Afghanistan would provide us with an alternative means of securing an energy supply from central Asia.
Land wars are always about resources. If you think about how much the Afghanistan conflict has cost, I think you'll find that the same money invested in counter-intelligence would have been much more effective in preventing further terrorist attacks.
Which resources were we trying to secure in Viet Nam and Korea again?
| 412 |
iossarian Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:47:38am |
re: #411 mcspiff
Which resources were we trying to secure in Viet Nam and Korea again?
Sorry, should have said wars of aggression.
| 413 |
mcspiff Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:51:57am |
re: #412 iossarian
Sorry, should have said wars of aggression.
You're a weak troll. You won't last long here tho.
| 414 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:53:09am |
re: #407 iossarian
OK, here's what I think happened (roughly):
1) Osama attacks the US
2) George Bush finishes the goat story
3) George Bush decides to capture/kill Osama
4) We invade Afghanistan
5) It becomes clear (after about a year) that we're not going to catch/kill Osama all that easilyAfter 5 I'm not sure, but my educated guess based on observation of past history is that we decided that having a military presence in Afghanistan would provide us with an alternative means of securing an energy supply from central Asia.
Land wars are always about resources. If you think about how much the Afghanistan conflict has cost, I think you'll find that the same money invested in counter-intelligence would have been much more effective in preventing further terrorist attacks.
And it actually goes back a bit further than that. The US military during the Clinton Administration cruise missiled some Al Queda facilities in Afghanistan. So the fact that the Taliban-controlled Afghanistan regime was facilitating terrorist training camps was known before 9/11. And there was considerable rhetoric about how that sort of action was weak and not effective.
So part of the post-9/11 decision process is that a bigger reaction than a few missiles is called for since that obviously was not enough of a clue. So, we form a coalition to go in along with considerable support to the Taliban opposition, thus eventually getting us in bed with Karzi.
| 415 |
Radicchio ad Absurdum Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:53:50am |
re: #343 MandyManners
They're not strays. They're the neighbors. Besides, I don't blame them for doing what dogs do. I still think about giving back his animals' poop.
Shovel it into his yard. Thats what I do. Or leave it on the front stoop, ring the doorbell and explain that you are returning his dog crap that he left in your yard.
| 416 |
Radicchio ad Absurdum Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:55:21am |
re: #351 Cannadian Club Akbar
Paper bag. Porch. Fire. Ring bell. Run. Heh.
My Mom actually taught me that one. I had to hide in the bushes for two hours while the neighbor raged up and down the block. Thanks Mom.
| 417 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Aug 25, 2010 10:59:26am |
re: #407 iossarian
OK, here's what I think happened (roughly):
1) Osama attacks the US
2) George Bush finishes the goat story
3) George Bush decides to capture/kill Osama
4) We invade Afghanistan
5) It becomes clear (after about a year) that we're not going to catch/kill Osama all that easilyAfter 5 I'm not sure, but my educated guess based on observation of past history is that we decided that having a military presence in Afghanistan would provide us with an alternative means of securing an energy supply from central Asia.
Land wars are always about resources. If you think about how much the Afghanistan conflict has cost, I think you'll find that the same money invested in counter-intelligence would have been much more effective in preventing further terrorist attacks.
You're making your post-5 assumption too complicated. Once you go into any war for whatever reason, it's just damned hard to stop. That's why we should be sure to try the other things first.
| 418 |
elbruce Wed, Aug 25, 2010 11:01:24am |
re: #407 iossarian
...but my educated guess based on observation of past history is that we decided that having a military presence in Afghanistan would provide us with an alternative means of securing an energy supply from
central Asia
There is a pipeline being built, that's true. But tell me - what kind of economy do you think it would be possible to have in Afghanistan otherwise? They're going to need some form of revenue in order to create a stable society.
That's not to say that we aren't making lemonade out of lemons there in regards to energy access. But we didn't ask for the lemons; they were thrown at us.
re: #407 iossarian
Land wars are always about resources. If you think about how much the Afghanistan conflict has cost, I think you'll find that the same money invested in counter-intelligence would have been much more effective in preventing further terrorist attacks.
I don't think that Al Qaeda attacked us over resources. I don't think that the Taliban refused to extradite Al Qaeda because of resources. And I don't think that we responded as we did because of resources.
I'd agree that counter-intelligence measures are more effective than military conflict when dealing with international terrorism. But in this case, they really, really asked for it. I can't imagine how awful things would be right now if we had allowed Al Qaeda to destroy the WTC and then declined to respond militarily to that level of provocation.
| 419 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Aug 25, 2010 11:07:00am |
re: #320 webevintage
So it does not matter that:
Yet the worst of those forecasts has failed to materialize, as companies wait to see how long the moratorium will last before making critical decisions on spending cuts and layoffs. Unemployment claims related to the oil industry along the Gulf Coast have been in the hundreds, not the thousands, and while oil production from the gulf is down because of the drilling halt, supplies from the region are expected to rebound in future years. Only 2 of the 33 deepwater rigs operating in the gulf before the BP rig exploded have left for other fields.I think Reine knows what she is talking about to, but that does not mean that what was forecasted to happen has not happened.
Should we not be glad about that?
Yes, yes, double yes, triple yes.
Right now, companies retained the most experienced employees, and have assigned them other places. The Roi is working out of Texas. Others are working out of Canada or other US states. And the fact that the rigs have not left is an excellent sign that the industry expects that the moratorium will be lifted.
| 420 |
iossarian Wed, Aug 25, 2010 11:12:46am |
re: #418 elbruce
I don't think that Al Qaeda attacked us over resources. I don't think that the Taliban refused to extradite Al Qaeda because of resources. And I don't think that we responded as we did because of resources.
Sorry - work intervenes. I agree with all of these, but will point out that:
- Al Qaeda didn't invade anyone, they carried out a terrorist attack
- The Taliban didn't invade anyone, at least if you count civil war as non-invasive
- Although I agree that we didn't originally invade because of resources, I don't think we'd have stayed as long as we have if that weren't a consideration.
But who knows. Maybe you're right and we're just having trouble getting out (and I honestly mean that in a non-sarc way).
| 421 |
elbruce Wed, Aug 25, 2010 11:13:41am |
re: #419 reine.de.tout
And the fact that the rigs have not left is an excellent sign that the industry expects that the moratorium will be lifted.
I think that a six-month moratorium is a dumb idea. It just amounts to political cover that doesn't do anything.
It's true that every one of those deep sea rigs is a potential ticking time bomb, and has been for years. Every energy company out there is using the exact same equipment and procedures that BP was using when Deepwater Horizon blew. BP just drew the short straw.
Given the amount of difficulty in recovering from a deepwater well disaster, and the massive damage that such a disaster can cause, I'd liken deepwater oil drilling to nuclear energy in terms of its risk profile. That is, there's a very small chance of something really horrible happening. As such, we should be as careful as it as we are with nuclear reactors.
I'd much rather see a targeted/conditional moratorium: for each deepwater rig, freeze your operations until you can show that your blowout prevention and recovery capabilities meet a much improved standard. As soon as that happens, you get the green light for that rig.
| 422 |
elbruce Wed, Aug 25, 2010 11:15:44am |
re: #420 iossarian
Sorry - work intervenes. I agree with all of these, but will point out that:
- Al Qaeda didn't invade anyone, they carried out a terrorist attack
- The Taliban didn't invade anyone, at least if you count civil war as non-invasive
- Although I agree that we didn't originally invade because of resources, I don't think we'd have stayed as long as we have if that weren't a consideration.But who knows. Maybe you're right and we're just having trouble getting out (and I honestly mean that in a non-sarc way).
To some extent, it's a face-saving thing: how do we withdraw without the Islamofascistsuicideterrorists hailing it as a great victory for their side? Catching OBL early on would have been ideal, but I don't think he's anywhere around there, if he's even still alive. So what we've got left is stabilizing the country under some degree of democracy before we pull out.
| 423 |
iossarian Wed, Aug 25, 2010 11:18:51am |
re: #422 elbruce
To some extent, it's a face-saving thing: how do we withdraw without the Islamofascistsuicideterrorists hailing it as a great victory for their side? Catching OBL early on would have been ideal, but I don't think he's anywhere around there, if he's even still alive. So what we've got left is stabilizing the country under some degree of democracy before we pull out.
See, I think that's a plausible explanation. I happen to think that my explanation (we need the pipeline, hence we need stability) is a bit more plausible, but I accept that there are different possible explanations.
Basically, it seems fishy to me that the only places where we are engaged in long term conflicts are either rich in energy resources or strategically important for obtaining same. Contrast this with, e.g., Somalia.
| 424 |
Coracle Wed, Aug 25, 2010 11:20:17am |
re: #421 elbruce
I think that a six-month moratorium is a dumb idea. It just amounts to political cover that doesn't do anything.
It's true that every one of those deep sea rigs is a potential ticking time bomb, and has been for years. Every energy company out there is using the exact same equipment and procedures that BP was using when Deepwater Horizon blew. BP just drew the short straw.
That depends on what those companies and rigs _do_ during the moratorium time. If they are _not_ shortsighted idiots, they are checking and fixing their equipment and tightening, creating, and mandating enforcing of procedures. To my mind _that_ is the intended function of the moratorium. It was never a question of stopping operations permanently. I do not, however have supreme confidence that the leadership of these various companies are not shortsighted idiots.
I'd much rather see a targeted/conditional moratorium: for each deepwater rig, freeze your operations until you can show that your blowout prevention and recovery capabilities meet a much improved standard. As soon as that happens, you get the green light for that rig.
That'd be pretty good, but then you'd have a thousand and one arguments on defining the standard and who gets to measure and judge. Try to tell me that wouldn't be politicized from the first second.
| 425 |
elbruce Wed, Aug 25, 2010 11:23:09am |
re: #423 iossarian
Basically, it seems fishy to me that the only places where we are engaged in long term conflicts are either rich in energy resources or strategically important for obtaining same. Contrast this with, e.g., Somalia.
I like me some Dems, but the fact is we pulled out of Somalia because Clinton pussed out. One helicopter crashes and he gets all scaredy? Please. The fact that Somalia is still in shambles demonstrates the folly of the whole "pull out now no matter what!" attitude.
But its' a vicious cycle: the reason that the energy-rich places tend to be less stable and more dangerous to others is because we and other consumer nations have been meddling with their affairs for about a century now. Sometimes that instability leads to us having to go in and meddle some more, particularly when they start crashing our airplanes into our skyscrapers.
| 426 |
elbruce Wed, Aug 25, 2010 11:26:08am |
re: #424 Coracle
That depends on what those companies and rigs _do_ during the moratorium time. If they are _not_ shortsighted idiots, they are checking and fixing their equipment and tightening, creating, and mandating enforcing of procedures. To my mind _that_ is the intended function of the moratorium. It was never a question of stopping operations permanently. I do not, however have supreme confidence that the leadership of these various companies are not shortsighted idiots.
I keep being asked to trust corporations to shape up by themselves for their own interest. Reality keeps demonstrating that that never happens. If we want them to shape up, we have to make them. Just giving them a time out in the corner isn't going to improve their behavior after the time out expires. Especially if they wheedle us into letting it expire early.
re: #424 Coracle
That'd be pretty good, but then you'd have a thousand and one arguments on defining the standard and who gets to measure and judge. Try to tell me that wouldn't be politicized from the first second.
Yep, that would be a problem. It might be useful to have some leadership on that sort of thing, say from a certain President... but if there's anything that Obama's bad at, it's making it clear to Congress what he expects from them and keeping the whip on them until they deliver it.
| 427 |
iossarian Wed, Aug 25, 2010 11:27:57am |
re: #425 elbruce
I like me some Dems, but the fact is we pulled out of Somalia because Clinton pussed out. One helicopter crashes and he gets all scaredy? Please. The fact that Somalia is still in shambles demonstrates the folly of the whole "pull out now no matter what!" attitude.
But its' a vicious cycle: the reason that the energy-rich places tend to be less stable and more dangerous to others is because we and other consumer nations have been meddling with their affairs for about a century now. Sometimes that instability leads to us having to go in and meddle some more, particularly when they start crashing our airplanes into our skyscrapers.
Well, OK, but maybe we wouldn't have pulled out of Somalia had there been a compelling strategic reason for us to stay. Impossible to know.
As for your second paragraph, it again seems to me that, if you assume that the resource question ISN'T the main reason for us to remain in places like Afghanistan, then a more rational approach would be to stop meddling altogether and invest the money in counter-intelligence. But to be fair, that may be underestimating the power of popular opinion.
| 428 |
sagehen Wed, Aug 25, 2010 11:28:08am |
re: #407 iossarian
OK, here's what I think happened (roughly):
1) Osama attacks the US
2) George Bush finishes the goat story
3) George Bush decides to capture/kill Osama
4) We invade Afghanistan
5) It becomes clear (after about a year) that we're not going to catch/kill Osama all that easilyAfter 5 I'm not sure, but my educated guess based on observation of past history is that we decided that having a military presence in Afghanistan would provide us with an alternative means of securing an energy supply from central Asia.
Land wars are always about resources. If you think about how much the Afghanistan conflict has cost, I think you'll find that the same money invested in counter-intelligence would have been much more effective in preventing further terrorist attacks.
NononononononoNO.
4) We invade Afghanistan
5) We don't put proper effort into Afghanistan, because TPTB had always been more interested in Iraq anyway. Resources are diverted, Osama escapes.
6) In a desperate effort to not look like it's their own damn fault they let Osama escape, and because the American people would be outraged if TPTB were to say out loud "Afghanistan never much interested us anyhow",%2
| 429 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Aug 25, 2010 12:00:51pm |
re: #421 elbruce
I think that a six-month moratorium is a dumb idea. It just amounts to political cover that doesn't do anything.
It's true that every one of those deep sea rigs is a potential ticking time bomb, and has been for years. Every energy company out there is using the exact same equipment and procedures that BP was using when Deepwater Horizon blew. BP just drew the short straw.
Given the amount of difficulty in recovering from a deepwater well disaster, and the massive damage that such a disaster can cause, I'd liken deepwater oil drilling to nuclear energy in terms of its risk profile. That is, there's a very small chance of something really horrible happening. As such, we should be as careful as it as we are with nuclear reactors.
I'd much rather see a targeted/conditional moratorium: for each deepwater rig, freeze your operations until you can show that your blowout prevention and recovery capabilities meet a much improved standard. As soon as that happens, you get the green light for that rig.
I am really glad to see that you think the moratorium is a bad idea. Beyond the few weeks needed to inspect the rigs to accomplish what you said above (one week after the blowout, that was accomplished) and have the companies submit new plans (a month or so), the moratorium accomplishes nothing, except unemployment, and not unemployment of higher-educated, higher-skilled folks like my husband, but unemployment of those with precious little resources for finding suitable work.
Of course they are all ticking time bombs; however, BP was arrogant and big enough that they were given exceptions they should never have been given.
elbruce - here's a story I related before you registered, you may find it interesting.
Schlumberger, at BP's request, sent some mud loggers to the rig the day before the blowout. BP decided they didn't need their services, and planned to send them back in to land on the next day's flight. The employees contacted their company, Schlumberger, related what was going on at the rig, and at its own expense, Schlumberger rented a helicopter and sent it to the rig to get its employees OFF. I've never heard of a company doing that before. They knew what BP was doing was very very risky, so risky they incurred a huge extra expense to keep their employees safe.
As far as the other rigs being ticking time bombs - true enough, of course. But there was drilling out there for 60 years with not one incident. Right now, none of those companies have a permit to drill. The only company with a permit is BP.
| 430 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Aug 25, 2010 12:03:03pm |
re: #421 elbruce
I think that a six-month moratorium is a dumb idea. It just amounts to political cover that doesn't do anything.
It's true that every one of those deep sea rigs is a potential ticking time bomb, and has been for years. Every energy company out there is using the exact same equipment and procedures that BP was using when Deepwater Horizon blew. BP just drew the short straw.
.
And actually, no. BP made decisions that were terrible, and used a procedure that they should NOT have been used given the circumstances of that well, AND they failed to notice warning signals that started a few days before the blowout, and continued up to the time of the blowout.
| 431 |
elbruce Wed, Aug 25, 2010 1:08:29pm |
re: #427 iossarian
As for your second paragraph, it again seems to me that, if you assume that the resource question ISN'T the main reason for us to remain in places like Afghanistan, then a more rational approach would be to stop meddling altogether and invest the money in counter-intelligence. But to be fair, that may be underestimating the power of popular opinion.
As soon as we manage an "honorable withdrawal from Afghanistan (which may take a little while longer yet) then I'll be all for that.
| 432 |
elbruce Wed, Aug 25, 2010 1:10:29pm |
re: #429 reine.de.tout
As far as the other rigs being ticking time bombs - true enough, of course. But there was drilling out there for 60 years with not one incident. Right now, none of those companies have a permit to drill. The only company with a permit is BP.
Drilling at that depth is a quite recent phenomenon, one of the technological wonders of the modern age. Drilling in shallower depths is less problematic because any blowouts are much easier to cap promptly.
| 433 |
elbruce Wed, Aug 25, 2010 1:14:07pm |
re: #430 reine.de.tout
And actually, no. BP made decisions that were terrible, and used a procedure that they should NOT have been used given the circumstances of that well, AND they failed to notice warning signals that started a few days before the blowout, and continued up to the time of the blowout.
Well, I know that all of the energy companies with wells out there pretty much submitted Xerox copies of each others response plans (including mention of Walruses). So to say that similarly bad things don't go on at other rigs is (everybody chant it after me)... to trust the industry to self-regulate. Again.
We only find out about stories like that after the disaster. Up until there's a disaster we all seem to blithely assume that such stories are preposterous and aren't happening anywhere we're not looking. Yet as the existence of such disasters proves, that's rarely if ever the case.
| 434 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Aug 25, 2010 1:21:41pm |
re: #433 elbruce
Well, I know that all of the energy companies with wells out there pretty much submitted Xerox copies of each others response plans (including mention of Walruses). So to say that similarly bad things don't go on at other rigs is (everybody chant it after me)... to trust the industry to self-regulate. Again.
We only find out about stories like that after the disaster. Up until there's a disaster we all seem to blithely assume that such stories are preposterous and aren't happening anywhere we're not looking. Yet as the existence of such disasters proves, that's rarely if ever the case.
Well, all I'll say there is that my husband is a mud engineer; and he values his life, as all employees working on a rig do.
He was appalled when he learned of the decisions BP made. A company operating dangerously is not operating in its own best financial interests; the cost of incidents is too high. They prefer to extract the oil safely and sell it, than lose it and then have to pay fines, clean up, etc.
A company operating dangerously is not operating in its own best interests personnel-wise, because they don't want to kill their trained and experienced employees.
| 435 |
elbruce Wed, Aug 25, 2010 2:44:03pm |
re: #434 reine.de.tout
Well, all I'll say there is that my husband is a mud engineer; and he values his life, as all employees working on a rig do. He was appalled when he learned of the decisions BP made.
Of course. Would that he were in a position to make major procedural and equipment decisions for the company. Those people are typically half a world away.
re: #434 reine.de.tout
A company operating dangerously is not operating in its own best financial interests; the cost of incidents is too high. They prefer to extract the oil safely and sell it, than lose it and then have to pay fines, clean up, etc.
If that were enough to prevent such things from happening, the global market crash wouldn't have happened either. Over and over and over again we see companies - often a lot of them at the same time - make decisions that lead to massively damaging themselves, harming their employees and even causing their own collapse. But it seems that whenever somebody proposes rules to prevent it from happening again, we're told not to worry because companies wouldn't make decisions like that.
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