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1 Ojoe  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:22:31pm

We are not pulled back from economic woes at all.

2 researchok  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:23:23pm

re: #1 Ojoe

We are not pulled back from economic woes at all.

Artistic license.

3 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:23:52pm

Gee

Obama IS just like me

I pick up stinky doggy poo too!!!

4 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:24:54pm

re: #3 sattv4u2

Gee

Obama IS just like me

I pick up stinky doggy poo too!!!

((strange part about it though ,,, I don’t even HAVE a dog!!! I just like doing it!! ))

j/k ,, I have two!!

5 researchok  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:25:12pm

re: #3 sattv4u2

Gee

Obama IS just like me

I pick up stinky doggy poo too!!!

I’d vote for you.

6 Ojoe  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:25:42pm

re: #2 researchok

Artistic license.

Must be.

7 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:26:13pm

re: #5 researchok

I’d vote for you.


As well you should!!
I’ll name my dogs as advisor’s

Einstein and McDuff

8 bratwurst  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:28:24pm

re: #1 Ojoe

We are not pulled back from economic woes at all.

My investment portfolio is worth about 20% more than it was the day before Obama took office. I realize that this is of no comfort to people looking for work, but the growth of the market between January 19, 2009 and today does, in fact, represent something of a pullback from economic woes for millions of Americans whether you like it or not.

9 Linden Arden  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:33:40pm

re: #8 bratwurst

All the broad indexes are up 20-25% since Jan 20, 2009. We were in freefall with the possibility of bank runs and depositors lined up for miles to retrieve money the little FDIC couldn’t cover. TARP helped a lot and then a little known plan from Obama called SCAP (Supervisory Capital Assessment Plan) forced the big banks to acquire much more capital.

Markets have been steadily rising since.

10 Killgore Trout  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:35:12pm

re: #8 bratwurst

My investment portfolio is worth about 20% more than it was the day before Obama took office. I realize that this is of no comfort to people looking for work, but the growth of the market between January 19, 2009 and today does, in fact, represent something of a pullback from economic woes for millions of Americans whether you like it or not.

The market has made an incredible recovery. The economy has stabilized and is making solid progress. We aren’t out of the woods yet but we’re getting there.

11 researchok  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:35:30pm

re: #7 sattv4u2

As well you should!!
I’ll name my dogs as advisor’s

Einstein and McDuff

I want an ambassadorship.

12 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:37:05pm

re: #11 researchok

I want an ambassadorship.

As soon as your donation check clears, we can discuss where!

13 Killgore Trout  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:39:22pm

For the Ricky Gervaise fans….
Karl Pilkington An Idiot Abroad Pt. 1

Youtube Video

Episodes available on youtube.

14 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:40:48pm

re: #10 Killgore Trout

The market has made an incredible recovery. The economy has stabilized and is making solid progress. We aren’t out of the woods yet but we’re getting there.

I’m not convinced yet. I think things are getting better, but for that reason I say we cannot raise taxes.

15 researchok  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:41:59pm

re: #12 sattv4u2

As soon as your donation check clears, we can discuss where!

Poland.

I really like pierogi

16 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:43:15pm

re: #14 Dark_Falcon

I’m not convinced yet. I think things are getting better, but for that reason I say we cannot raise taxes.

Agree

If things are working the way they are why change it until we’re all (or at least most) of the way out of the woods, and we won’t be there until the employment situation and housing market starts to get better

17 bratwurst  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:43:43pm

re: #14 Dark_Falcon

I think things are getting better

So you join me in disagreeing with Ojoe’s first post, yes?

18 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:43:46pm

re: #15 researchok

Poland.

I really like pierogi

I know a few places in Chicago if you’d rather not go abroad!

19 researchok  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:44:55pm

re: #18 sattv4u2

I know a few places in Chicago if you’d rather not go abroad!

Not the same.

I’ve been to Poland (Krakow rocks!) and the food there is just unreal. They have pastries as good as anything you can find in Paris.

20 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:46:20pm

re: #8 bratwurst

My investment portfolio is worth about 20% more than it was the day before Obama took office. I realize that this is of no comfort to people looking for work, but the growth of the market between January 19, 2009 and today does, in fact, represent something of a pullback from economic woes for millions of Americans whether you like it or not.

The DJIA is up 66% from March of ‘09, when his economic policies started to take effect. The S&P is up 72% and the Nasdaq up 90% in that time period. The markets are all up and America has once again returned to its rightful place as the most admired, popular nation in the world, so of course the curmudgeons are unhappy.

21 Killgore Trout  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:47:35pm

re: #14 Dark_Falcon

I’m not convinced yet. I think things are getting better, but for that reason I say we cannot raise taxes.

I’m not so sure. We have to reduce the deficit. The Bush tax cuts created deficit spending as soon as they were enacted and their stimulative effect on the economy was minimal at best. They should be revoked for those in the upper income brackets.

22 researchok  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:47:42pm

re: #17 bratwurst

So you join me in disagreeing with Ojoe’s first post, yes?

There are signs of improvement (as in stabilizing) but we’re far from out of the woods.

Unemployment numbers tell the tale.

23 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:48:15pm

re: #20 goddamnedfrank

The DJIA is up 66% from March of ‘09, when his economic policies TARP started to take effect.

ftfy

24 researchok  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:48:22pm

re: #21 Killgore Trout

I’m not so sure. We have to reduce the deficit. The Bush tax cuts created deficit spending as soon as they were enacted and their stimulative effect on the economy was minimal at best. They should be revoked for those in the upper income brackets.

What is upper income bracket?

25 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:49:12pm

re: #24 researchok

What is upper income bracket?

For most people, thats anyone that makes more than “me”!!

26 researchok  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:49:27pm

re: #25 sattv4u2

For most people, thats anyone that makes more than “me”!!

LOL

27 Jadespring  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:49:56pm

re: #22 researchok

There are signs of improvement (as in stabilizing) but we’re far from out of the woods.

Unemployment numbers tell the tale.

Unemployment numbers generally lag behind during a recovery from a recession. They’re usually the last thing to show any great improvement.

28 bratwurst  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:49:59pm

re: #22 researchok

There are signs of improvement (as in stabilizing) but we’re far from out of the woods.

Unemployment numbers tell the tale.

I think you are right…but I strongly disagree with Ojoe’s assertion that “We are not pulled back from economic woes at all.”

29 researchok  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:50:29pm

re: #25 sattv4u2

For most people, thats anyone that makes more than “me”!!

Actually, the question is serious.

For example, 200K in Idaho is not like 200K in NYC.

30 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:50:41pm

re: #14 Dark_Falcon

I’m not convinced yet. I think things are getting better, but for that reason I say we cannot raise taxes.

LOL. Better, worse, it doesn’t matter, you’d latch onto any reason. The sanctity of tax cuts for the rich is like a religious conviction for you.

31 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:51:12pm

re: #29 researchok

Actually, the question is serious.

For example, 200K in Idaho is not like 200K in NYC.

BINGO

Give that man an ambassadorship!!

32 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:52:26pm

re: #30 goddamnedfrank

LOL. Better, worse, it doesn’t matter, you’d latch onto any reason. The sanctity of tax cuts for the rich is like a religious conviction for you.

And the TAX THE RICH, class warfare is Nirvana for you

33 researchok  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:52:34pm

re: #29 researchok

Actually, the question is serious.

For example, 200K in Idaho is not like 200K in NYC.

It’s hard to tell right now. I beliecve we are too close to really see what is going on.

KT has a point re the stock market because the market is a great equalizer in the sense that the market has a life of it’s own, notwithstanding who is in office. Market is up, confidence is returning, albeit slowly.

34 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:53:25pm

re: #30 goddamnedfrank

Starting right in on the personal attacks, huh? That sort of post reminds me of something a Stalker would post.

35 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:54:36pm

re: #34 Dark_Falcon

Starting right in on the personal attacks, huh? That sort of post reminds me of something a Stalker would post.

Soon followed by the name calling and/ or swearing

36 researchok  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:54:54pm

re: #32 sattv4u2

And the TAX THE RICH, class warfare is Nirvana for you

I’d rather see one of two things:

1) Corporate taxes, rather than personal taxes increase, or,

2) Corporate tax loopholes and special legislation for corporations be ended.

37 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:56:52pm

re: #36 researchok

I’d rather see one of two things:

1) Corporate taxes, rather than personal taxes increase, or,

2) Corporate tax loopholes and special legislation for corporations be ended.

Can’t agree with #1

100% agree with #2

38 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:58:18pm

re: #17 bratwurst

So you join me in disagreeing with Ojoe’s first post, yes?

No, not yet. We’re still in “woes” territory, just not quite as deep in it. In time we can get out, but I’m voting Republican because I think that Mark Kirk and Joel Polleck are better able to oversee as recovery than Alexi Gianoulius and Jan Scharkowsky.

I will not, however, be attending that Republican event. I’ve got bills to pay, and I found out the keynote speaker is Monica Crowley, whom I have no interest in hearing. I’ll just write a small campaign contribution check instead and go home to watch the Colts thump the Redskins.

39 researchok  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:58:31pm

re: #37 sattv4u2

Can’t agree with #1

100% agree with #2

Why not with option #1?

If option 2 won’t happen, why not just raise the corporate taxes?

The net effect on dividend income would be the same?

40 Killgore Trout  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:58:36pm

re: #24 researchok

What is upper income bracket?

I forget the exact numbers. It’s easy to google.

41 researchok  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 2:59:57pm

re: #40 Killgore Trout

I forget the exact numbers. It’s easy to google.

How do we take geographic inequalities (if we do) into the picture?

42 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:01:28pm

re: #39 researchok

Why not with option #1?

If option 2 won’t happen, why not just raise the corporate taxes?

The net effect on dividend income would be the same?

A couple of reasons

Corporations pay out dividends to their stockholders including retirees who have 401K’s that include that company in their portfolios AFTER EBIDTA

(Earnings Before Interest, Depriciation, TAXES and Amortization)

So they are paying out AFTER they pay taxes. Raise taxes, less dividends

ALSO,, more taxes to the corp, less operating capital. Less op/cap less hiring, buying new equipment, etc etc

43 bratwurst  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:02:20pm

re: #38 Dark_Falcon

No, not yet. We’re still in “woes” territory, just not quite as deep in it. .

So why is it so hard to say that you disagree with his notion that “we are not pulled back from economic woes at all”?

44 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:02:46pm

re: #40 Killgore Trout

I forget the exact numbers. It’s easy to google.

Has nothing to do with “google”

Whoever writes the law can make it any number they want

What do you consider “upper bracket’?

45 freetoken  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:02:53pm

Did anyone catch this live?

Buck’s remarks on homosexuality loom after Meet the Press debate

Republican Senate candidate Ken Buck suddenly elevated the culture wars from minor player to center stage in the Senate race today when he compared homosexuality to alcoholism in a nationally televised debate.

Appearing with Democratic Sen. Michael Bennet in a 27-minute showdown on Meet the Press, Buck responded to a question from host David Gregory by saying that he believed homosexuality was a choice but had limited biological influences “like alcoholism and some other things.”

[…]

46 researchok  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:05:28pm

re: #42 sattv4u2

A couple of reasons

Corporations pay out dividends to their stockholders including retirees who have 401K’s that include that company in their portfolios AFTER EBIDTA

(Earnings Before Interest, Depriciation, TAXES and Amortization)

So they are paying out AFTER they pay taxes. Raise taxes, less dividends

ALSO,, more taxes to the corp, less operating capital. Less op/cap less hiring, buying new equipment, etc etc

So they are paying out AFTER they pay taxes. Raise taxes, less
dividends

But they are paying less taxes because of the loopholes!

Actually, I really believe the tax code is inherently unfair.

It puts Obama- and every other president- at a distinct disadvantage because as part of an economic policy, presidents have to factor in an unintelligible tax code.

I’m no great fan of the Obama economic policy but I won’t blame only. He’s got one hand tied behind his back- and to a large degree, corporate tax loopholes, etc are a big part of it.

47 avanti  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:06:23pm

McCain’s daughter will get a bit of flack for this:

Senator McCain’s daughter calls O’Donnell a “nut job”

McCain.

48 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:06:25pm

re: #46 researchok

But they are paying less taxes because of the loopholes!

And thats why I supported your #2

Raise their taxes, they’ll just find better loopholes

49 researchok  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:06:35pm

re: #46 researchok

The day has come where I’m actually defending a part of Obama’s economic policies.

Holy crap!

50 Killgore Trout  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:06:37pm

re: #41 researchok

How do we take geographic inequalities (if we do) into the picture?

I don’t think any federal taxes take geography into consideration.

51 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:07:04pm

Humor. Parody. Yes that describes it.

52 researchok  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:07:14pm

re: #48 sattv4u2

But they are paying less taxes because of the loopholes!

And thats why I supported your #2

Raise their taxes, they’ll just find better loopholes

Or, establish a corporate flat tax.

53 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:08:35pm

re: #43 bratwurst

So why is it so hard to say that you disagree with his notion that “we are not pulled back from economic woes at all”?

Because it’s hard to stake out a coherent position on the issue that allows for all the facts. I do disagree, though, from the idea that nothing has changed. But things still are in the doldrums, and that was what Ojoe was getting at. He overstated it though.

54 Killgore Trout  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:08:55pm

re: #44 sattv4u2


What do you consider “upper bracket’?

The top of the scale is upper. The bottom is lower. That’s the way it works.

55 researchok  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:09:11pm

re: #50 Killgore Trout

I don’t think any federal taxes take geography into consideration.

Right- and therein lies a minefield.

200K in NYC is not 200K in Idaho or Arkansas.

How do you feel about a flat tax, or consumption tax, a la VAT in Europe?

56 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:10:19pm

re: #54 Killgore Trout

The top of the scale is upper. The bottom is lower. That’s the way it works.

were you the captain of the Dodge Ball Team at school!?!?

IF there is going to be legislation that raises the taxes on the “upper level”, a number will have to be established as a demarcation point

In your mind, what is that number?

57 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:10:24pm

re: #52 researchok

Or, establish a corporate flat tax.

That would work in the short term. But longer term, Congress would cut new loopholes at the behest of corporate lobbyists.

58 Killgore Trout  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:10:26pm

Are Neo-Nazis Infiltrating America’s Most Trivial Political Offices?

You all remember Dan Schruender, the admitted neo-Nazi running for school board in Southern California. Now we learn of another SoCal neo-Nazi running for another minor league political position. Meet Riverside Water Board candidate Jeff Hall

According to the Riverside Press-Enterprise, a mysterious Jeff Hall has been running a stealth campaign for a seat on the all-powerful water board. (i.e. he’s not campaigning at all and hoping voters just randomly elect him.)

In addition to being an aspiring water boardmember, Hall is also a prominent neo-Nazi and the leader of the California chapter of the National Socialist Movement. Some of his hobbies include organizing rallies to protest illegal immigration and waving Nazi flags outside of synagogues. Water Board members say they “have no idea what his platform on water issues is.”

59 researchok  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:10:55pm

re: #57 Dark_Falcon

That would work in the short term. But longer term, Congress would cut new loopholes at the behest of corporate lobbyists.

How about a VAT?

60 freetoken  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:11:21pm

re: #55 researchok

How do you feel about a flat tax, or consumption tax, a la VAT in Europe?

Consumption taxes invariably become regressive.

VAT - taxing at intermediate stages before final retail - isn’t much better, IMO.

61 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:11:23pm

re: #59 researchok

How about a VAT?

Not on top of the taxes already in place

62 Killgore Trout  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:12:11pm

re: #56 sattv4u2


IF there is going to be legislation that raises the taxes on the “upper level”, a number will have to be established as a demarcation point

In your mind, what is that number?

Why would “my mind” have anything to do with it? Google the proposed legislation and see what the proposals are.

63 researchok  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:12:55pm

re: #60 freetoken

re: #61 sattv4u2

So how do we reform the tax code?

Seems to me that has to be a priority.

64 freetoken  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:12:56pm

re: #58 Killgore Trout

Ahh… local board elections.

Here in SD county, a locally prominent SoCon who used to be on a school board is now running for a hospital board.

Local politics - where nothing is too nutty.

65 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:13:19pm

re: #62 Killgore Trout

Why would “my mind” have anything to do with it? Google the proposed legislation and see what the proposals are.

Not only were you the captain, you were The Most Outstanding Dodger 4 years running, huh !!

66 freetoken  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:13:21pm

re: #63 researchok

re: #61 sattv4u2

So how do we reform the tax code?

What do you want to accomplish?

67 researchok  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:13:56pm

re: #64 freetoken

Ahh… local board elections.

Here in SD county, a locally prominent SoCon who used to be on a school board is now running for a hospital board.

Local politics - where nothing is too nutty.

Ain’t that truth!

NC, SC are a testament to that!

68 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:14:10pm

re: #59 researchok

How about a VAT?

Too stealthy. Taxes need to be open and seen. That’s the only way to keep a healthy public suspicion of them.

69 Killgore Trout  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:15:00pm

re: #64 freetoken

Ahh… local board elections.

Here in SD county, a locally prominent SoCon who used to be on a school board is now running for a hospital board.

Local politics - where nothing is too nutty.

It’s an interesting trend. They could be working on setting up a political structure again. It’s been a long time since they’ve been politically active.

70 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:15:17pm

re: #65 sattv4u2

Not only were you the captain, you were The Most Outstanding Dodger 4 years running, huh !!

That’s not nice.

71 bratwurst  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:15:23pm

Weren’t we warned that Obama and his minions were destined to hit us with a VAT? I guess they are saving it for after the midterms…along with the Fairness Doctrine and taking away all of our guns and ammo!

72 researchok  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:15:33pm

re: #66 freetoken

What do you want to accomplish?

Fair- and simple- tax codes for individuals and corporations. Close the loopholes that benefit the rich and corporate interests.

Good grief, I’m sounding like a lefty.

Too much LGF?
//

73 freetoken  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:16:35pm

re: #69 Killgore Trout

Down here I don’t think they’ve ever gone away. For the past two decades certain local groups/names in the SoCon movement have continually been running for this or that position. Including judges, of which there are also some on the coming ballot.

74 Gus  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:16:56pm

re: #72 researchok

Fair- and simple- tax codes for individuals and corporations. Close the loopholes that benefit the rich and corporate interests.

Good grief, I’m sounding like a lefty.

Too much LGF?
//

Down with the establishment!

/

75 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:17:02pm

re: #70 Dark_Falcon

That’s not nice.

Ask me a question, I give a declarative answer (even if is an honest “I Don’t Know”)

I expect the same courtesy in exchange

76 freetoken  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:17:05pm

re: #72 researchok


Good grief, I’m sounding like a lefty.

Too much LGF?
//

We’ve turned you to the dark side.

77 freetoken  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:17:51pm

Taxes are never liked, anywhere anytime.

Yet they are necessary.

Thus the truism attributed (?) to Ben Franklin.

78 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:18:13pm

Read the parts about taxes. [Link: encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com…]

79 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:18:25pm

re: #71 bratwurst

Weren’t we warned that Obama and his minions were destined to hit us with a VAT? I guess they are saving it for after the midterms…along with the Fairness Doctrine and taking away all of our guns and ammo!

The gun issue was never an Obama priority, mostly due to Harry Reid’s political need to block any such legislation in the Senate. He might have considered a VAT, but he used up too much political capital on health care to make major changes to the tax code.

The Fairness Doctrine was just an “Outrageous Outrage!!1” ‘story’.

80 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:18:50pm

re: #77 freetoken

Taxes are never liked, anywhere anytime.

Yet they are necessary.

Thus the truism attributed (?) to Ben Franklin.

Well,,, if I HAVE to have something I don’t like, I prefer to have as little of it as possible!

81 researchok  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:18:52pm

re: #74 Gus 802

Down with the establishment!

/

Quit making fun of me.

You’re to blame.
/

82 Killgore Trout  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:19:20pm

re: #65 sattv4u2

Not only were you the captain, you were The Most Outstanding Dodger 4 years running, huh !!

Ok, I googled it for you….

Bush tax cuts 101: What changes could be in store for taxpayers?


Still, it appears that the political will exists to extend many of the tax cuts. On Sept. 8, in a speech in the Cleveland area, President Obama threw down the gauntlet to the GOP, saying that Democrats were “ready, this week … to give tax cuts to every American making $250,000 or less.

That seems reasonable to me.

83 researchok  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:20:50pm

re: #76 freetoken

We’ve turned you to the dark side.

*nervous laughter here*

Seriously, for the most part debate here is really, really insightful.

Lots of good insight and a lot less dogma than people imagine about LGF.

84 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:22:16pm

re: #34 Dark_Falcon

Starting right in on the personal attacks, huh? That sort of post reminds me of something a Stalker would post.

No it isn’t, it’s the truth, evidenced by the fact that you didn’t deny it. Tax cuts are religion for you. Now I’m supposed to believe you when you say that the economy recovering is a reason not to raise taxes, but the truth is that for you there is never a good reason to raise them, ever. You could deny this, but you won’t, and I wouldn’t believe anybody who says they would cover up the facts surrounding Pat Tillman’s death anyway. Once you’ve convinced yourself that a lie is necessary, you embrace it and toss personal integrity out the window. You’re a salesman, this is what you do, you sell things.

85 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:23:14pm

re: #82 Killgore Trout

Ok, I googled it for you…

Bush tax cuts 101: What changes could be in store for taxpayers?

That seems reasonable to me.

I see

So you think a couple making 250K a year is “upper level”

So let me ask you this

Lest say Wifey and I make $245K a year. What incentive do I have to make work harder and make a little more (pushing it to over 250K) knowing that in that higher bracket I will now TAKE HOME less!
What if that 245K was due to me being a small business the whole thing is on my personal taxes? What incentive do I have to expand (hire more people)?

86 freetoken  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:24:18pm

re: #78 PhillyPretzel

A nation that has no population needs no services.

87 researchok  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:24:51pm

re: #85 sattv4u2

I see

So you think a couple making 250K a year is “upper level”

So let me ask you this

Lest say Wifey and I make $245K a year. What incentive do I have to make work harder and make a little more (pushing it to over 250K) knowing that in that higher bracket I will now TAKE HOME less!
What if that 245K was due to me being a small business the whole thing is on my personal taxes? What incentive do I have to expand (hire more people)?

And that is just one reason that illustrates why a revamping of the tax code is a necessity.

88 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:27:42pm

re: #85 sattv4u2

Lest say Wifey and I make $245K a year. What incentive do I have to make work harder and make a little more (pushing it to over 250K) knowing that in that higher bracket I will now TAKE HOME less!

Tax brackets don’t work that way and you know it. You will still take home more money because the increased tax rate only applies to the income over and above $250K.

89 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:27:43pm

re: #18 sattv4u2

I know a few places in Chicago if you’d rather not go abroad!

If you order it in New York City be very careful to make sure the waiter isn’t an illegal alien!

;)

90 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:27:43pm

re: #87 researchok

TAX THE RICH!!!

91 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:28:04pm

re: #89 oaktree

If you order it in New York City be very careful to make sure the waiter isn’t an illegal alien!

;)

Spock?
Worf!?!?!

92 Killgore Trout  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:29:51pm

re: #85 sattv4u2

I see

So you think a couple making 250K a year is “upper level”

So let me ask you this

Lest say Wifey and I make $245K a year. What incentive do I have to make work harder and make a little more (pushing it to over 250K) knowing that in that higher bracket I will now TAKE HOME less!
What if that 245K was due to me being a small business the whole thing is on my personal taxes? What incentive do I have to expand (hire more people)?

Sorry that’s the way taxes work. It shouldn’t be a shock to learn that there are tax brackets.

93 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:31:13pm

re: #84 goddamnedfrank

GAZE

94 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:33:56pm

re: #88 goddamnedfrank

Tax brackets don’t work that way and you know it. You will still take home more money because the increased tax rate only applies to the income over and above $250K.

Umm,,, errr,,, NO!!

Look at the “planning ahead” chart

[Link: www.moneybluebook.com…]

If I make 208,850K I was in the 28% bracket, leaving me 150,372
If I made 208,851K I got bumped up to the 33% bracket, leaving me 139,930

95 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:37:19pm

re: #92 Killgore Trout

Sorry that’s the way taxes work. It shouldn’t be a shock to learn that there are tax brackets.

Nice try, but I never stated it was a “shock”

96 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:43:17pm

re: #85 sattv4u2

I see

So you think a couple making 250K a year is “upper level”

So let me ask you this

Lest say Wifey and I make $245K a year. What incentive do I have to make work harder and make a little more (pushing it to over 250K) knowing that in that higher bracket I will now TAKE HOME less!

That’s not how taxes work. Do you seriously not know that?

Dear god.

97 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:44:18pm

re: #94 sattv4u2

Umm,,, errr,,, NO!!

Look at the “planning ahead” chart

[Link: www.moneybluebook.com…]

If I make 208,850K I was in the 28% bracket, leaving me 150,372
If I made 208,851K I got bumped up to the 33% bracket, leaving me 139,930

You seriously don’t know you only get taxed the 33% on any amount above 208,851? Seriously?

No wonder this country is screwed. Rank ignorance.

98 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:44:33pm

re: #96 Obdicut

see 94, dear God

99 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:45:24pm

re: #97 Obdicut

So again, whats my incentive to make more, to expand a business

THATS why this country is screwed

100 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:47:01pm

re: #98 sattv4u2

Again: You are taxed the higher percentage only on income above that percentage. That’s what progressive taxation means. It doesn’t mean that you get taxed the higher rate on your entire income.

I cannot believe this level of ignorance. It’s just shameful.

101 jaunte  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:47:15pm

re: #99 sattv4u2

I think most entrepreneurs just blow through that bracket stuff, succeeding by doing what they find interesting. The incentive is the game, the income is just a metric.

102 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:48:24pm

re: #94 sattv4u2

Umm,,, errr,,, NO!!

Look at the “planning ahead” chart

[Link: www.moneybluebook.com…]

If I make 208,850K I was in the 28% bracket, leaving me 150,372
If I made 208,851K I got bumped up to the 33% bracket, leaving me 139,930

Only that one dollar get’s taxed at 33%. The $71,800 below that gets taxed at 28%, the $69150 below that gets taxed at 25%, the $51,200 below that at 15%, and the first $16700 at 10%. Go talk to your accountant if you really don’t understand how tax brackets are tiered.

Here’s good news for you: The tax brackets are actually a tiered system, which means that only the amount of money above each cutoff is taxed at the higher rate. For people filing as head of household in 2005, for example, the first $10,450 in taxable income is taxed at 10%, then money earned from $10,450 to $39,800 is taxed at 15%, and anything you earn from $39,800 to $102,800 is taxed at the 25% rate.

So if you do have $40,000 in taxable income, you’ll only pay the 25% tax rate for the $200 above the $39,800 limit (adding only $50 to your tax bill), and the rest of your money will be taxed at the 10% and 15% rate.

103 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:50:01pm

re: #100 Obdicut

Income

The key concept of progressive income taxation is that income is considered in different steps, where income earned between certain points will be taxed at a certain rate. This is done to avoid creating incentive traps, where earning more might actually decrease your income (e.g., if income up to 10,000 is untaxed and after 10,001 you pay 10%, you will receive 9,000.90 if you make 10,001 and 10,000 if you make 10,000). The size and severity of the different steps varies a great deal and the differences inside the term “progressive” can be enormous. In this sense, it is not surprising that most economists support progressive taxation to some degree - the primary differences come when looking at the maximum income taxes that the highest earners might have to pay.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
Gee,, where have I heard that before !?!?

104 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:51:38pm

re: #103 sattv4u2

where income earned between certain points will be taxed at a certain rate. This is done to avoid creating incentive traps, where earning more might actually decrease your income

This is hilarious.

DarkFalcon, care to explain why you’re updinging this rank ignorance about progressive taxation?

105 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:52:14pm

re: #103 sattv4u2

Income

The key concept of progressive income taxation is that income is considered in different steps, where income earned between certain points will be taxed at a certain rate. This is done to avoid creating incentive traps, where earning more might actually decrease your income (e.g., if income up to 10,000 is untaxed and after 10,001 you pay 10%, you will receive 9,000.90 if you make 10,001 and 10,000 if you make 10,000). The size and severity of the different steps varies a great deal and the differences inside the term “progressive” can be enormous. In this sense, it is not surprising that most economists support progressive taxation to some degree - the primary differences come when looking at the maximum income taxes that the highest earners might have to pay.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
Gee,, where have I heard that before !?!?


hey dude

YOU KNOW THA’S NOT HOW OUR INCOME TAX WORKS, RIGHT?

106 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:53:10pm

*facepalm*

107 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:53:57pm

re: #104 Obdicut

This is hilarious.

DarkFalcon, care to explain why you’re updinging this rank ignorance about progressive taxation?

because he doesn’t know what he’s talking about


DF, have you ever paid your own taxes? As in, not had the employer withhold it. As in, you write a check from your account, for what you owe?

108 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:53:57pm

re: #105 WindUpBird

Yeah ,, our tax code is just ducky!

109 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:54:34pm

re: #106 goddamnedfrank

*facepalm*

Some stupid shit masquerading as ideology

Pretty great, it’s so stupid it doesn’t even qualify, it’s just mindless dumbshittery

110 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:55:06pm

re: #107 WindUpBird

Just for a humor break:

[Link: www.27bslash6.com…]

111 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:55:35pm

re: #108 sattv4u2

Yeah ,, our tax code is just ducky!

Now you’re just trolling :)


Because I have a hard time beliveing you’re a grown man with assets and a real job who doesn’t understand how tax brackets work.

112 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:56:10pm

re: #111 WindUpBird

Sadly, lots and lots of people don’t.

I didn’t think that included anyone who read LGF, though.

113 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:56:54pm

re: #104 Obdicut

This is hilarious.

DarkFalcon, care to explain why you’re updinging this rank ignorance about progressive taxation?

I haven’t updinged any of these posts since #94. And I it was my understanding that tax brackets applied to all income not just that above the bracket.

114 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:57:14pm

re: #110 Obdicut

Just for a humor break:

[Link: www.27bslash6.com…]

FOGGOT!


I used to go to “fagort” when mocking the chat behavior of homophobic douchebags on XBox live and Steam, I think I need to start using “foggot” instead :D

115 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:57:17pm

re: #111 WindUpBird

Now you’re just trolling :)

Because I have a hard time beliveing you’re a grown man with assets and a real job who doesn’t understand how tax brackets work.

Nope ,, not me

I aspire to be a societal leach

116 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:57:38pm

re: #115 sattv4u2

Nope ,, not me

I aspire to be a societal leach

stillll trolling

117 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:58:22pm

re: #116 WindUpBird

stilll trolling

what is it you kids say nowadays??
oh yeah

“whatevah”!

hehehe

118 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 3:58:53pm

re: #113 Dark_Falcon

I haven’t updinged any of these posts since #94. And I it was my understanding that tax brackets applied to all income not just that above the bracket.

You are completely wrong.

Your understanding is completely false. it is totally incorrect.

Now I’m positive you just have your taxes withheld by your employer. 9_9

119 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:00:49pm

re: #113 Dark_Falcon

I haven’t updinged any of these posts since #94. And I it was my understanding that tax brackets applied to all income not just that above the bracket.

Well, you’re completely wrong.

What Satt quoted is accurate— which is all the more hilarious that he’s reading it wrong.

The key concept of progressive income taxation is that income is considered in different steps, where income earned between certain points will be taxed at a certain rate.

Progressive taxation means that income is taxed, not people. So your first X is taxed at Y, X’ ix taxed at Y’, etc.
I am kind of shocked you don’t know this. This is one of the most fundamental ways that taxation and governance works. It is absolutely basic.

You may want to think long and hard about why you didn’t know this, and how this changes your attitudes towards taxation.

Here is the very, very, very simple WIki explanation:


An individual pays tax at a given bracket only for each dollar within that bracket’s range. For example, a single taxpayer who earned $10,000 in 2009 would be taxed 10% of each dollar earned from the 1st dollar to the 8,350th dollar (10% × $8,350 = $835.00), then 15% of each dollar earned from the 8,351st dollar to the 10,000th dollar (15% × $1,650 = $247.50), for a total of $1,082.50. Notice this amount ($1,082.50) is lower than if the individual had been taxed at 15% on the full $10,000 (for a tax of $1,500). This is because the individual’s marginal rate (the percentage tax on the last dollar earned, here 15%) has no effect on the income taxed at a lower bracket (here the first $8,350 of income taxed at 10%). This ensures that every rise in a person’s pre-tax salary results in an increase of his after-tax salary.
120 jaunte  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:01:32pm

How stuff works:
[Link: money.howstuffworks.com…]

121 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:01:51pm

re: #108 sattv4u2

Yeah ,, our tax code is just ducky!

The conservative code: never admit when you are wrong, just keep moving forward.

re: #113 Dark_Falcon

I haven’t updinged any of these posts since #94. And I it was my understanding that tax brackets applied to all income not just that above the bracket.

Do you have someone else do your taxes and just not pay any attention at all to the process, or have you been overpaying all these years?

122 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:03:09pm

Jesus. Total Fail.

123 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:04:03pm

re: #121 goddamnedfrank

The conservative code: never admit when you are wrong, just keep moving forward.

re: #113 Dark_Falcon

Do you have someone else do your taxes and just not pay any attention at all to the process, or have you been overpaying all these years?

I use TurboTax. I put in the information and it tells me what I owe.

124 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:04:10pm

re: #117 sattv4u2

what is it you kids say nowadays??
oh yeah

“whatevah”!

hehehe

This is sort of common behavior around here!


Step 1: Old LGF Conservative comes into thread, spews a bunch of ideological boilerplate nonsense that is easily disproven by 5 seconds on google, but which a lot of uneducated people believe

Step 2: Reasonable person, often someone untethered to the old days of LGF (where conservatives were allowed to say anything unchallenged) comes in and just tears Old LGF Conservative a a spare asshole with facts and data

Step 3: Old LGF Conservative then retreats to a place of safety, which is just being an evasive troll, because there’s no other avenue left to him

125 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:04:47pm

re: #113 Dark_Falcon

This ensures that every rise in a person’s pre-tax salary results in an increase of his after-tax salary.
This ensures that every rise in a person’s pre-tax salary results in an increase of his after-tax salary.
This ensures that every rise in a person’s pre-tax salary results in an increase of his after-tax salary.

126 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:04:53pm

BBL

127 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:05:16pm

re: #124 WindUpBird

This is sort of common behavior around here!

Step 1: Old LGF Conservative comes into thread, spews a bunch of ideological boilerplate nonsense that is easily disproven by 5 seconds on google, but which a lot of uneducated people believe

Step 2: Reasonable person, often someone untethered to the old days of LGF (where conservatives were allowed to say anything unchallenged) comes in and just tears Old LGF Conservative a a spare asshole with facts and data

Step 3: Old LGF Conservative then retreats to a place of safety, which is just being an evasive troll, because there’s no other avenue left to him

Step 4 Old LGF Progressives, instead of having reasonable dialogue revert to name calling

128 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:06:40pm

re: #123 Dark_Falcon

I use TurboTax. I put in the information and it tells me what I owe.


I don’t have the luxury of TurboTax, I need to have an accountant, because running a business and having multiple sources of income is complicated.

The cool thing about an accountant is they’ll go over everything with me and show me exactly where my advantages and disadvantages are with regard to taxes and income and etc.

129 jaunte  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:08:27pm

Anyone interested in tax policy might enjoy reading this Slate series on income inequality ( of course that may not be caused or cured simply by tax policy).
[Link: www.slate.com…]
(Link is for the 10th piece in the series).

130 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:08:46pm

re: #127 sattv4u2

Step 4 Old LGF Progressives, instead of having reasonable dialogue revert to name calling

Fair enough. I think it’s also reasonable for people who complain about increasing marginal tax rates on people making $250,000 or more to know how progressive taxation works instead of yelling CLASS WAR!!11!! at almost every opportunity.

131 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:10:59pm

re: #123 Dark_Falcon

I use TurboTax. I put in the information and it tells me what I owe.

The fact that the amount TurboTax says you owe doesn’t equal your highest nominal bracket has just escaped your notice, for over a decade? From where I sit this is a rather stunning admission, like a person just discovering that they weigh more with their clothes on.

Okay, I’ll drop it now, knowing being half the battle and all that.

132 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:11:30pm

re: #130 Jeff In Ohio

Fair enough. I think it’s also reasonable for people who complain about increasing marginal tax rates on people making $250,000 or more to know how progressive taxation works instead of yelling CLASS WAR!!11!! at almost every opportunity.

And as Researchok pointed out upthread, making 250K + (as a couple)in rural Oklahoma is a lot different than making it in NYC

So how do we level the field?

133 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:13:18pm

and BTW ,, this all started when Kilgore couldn’t/ wouldn’t answer what HE thought “upper income” (his words) level was

134 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:13:57pm

dammit ,, the Jets are going to win

135 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:18:44pm

re: #132 sattv4u2

And as Researchok pointed out upthread, making 250K + (as a couple)in rural Oklahoma is a lot different than making it in NYC

So how do we level the field?

The only way you level the field is through a more complicated tax code.

For instance, if you own a home in Oklahoma, chances are it did not cost as much as the guy in NYC, so his mortgage deduction is going to be much higher enabling him to take home more of his income.

While I do think $250k is the good life in Cincinnati, I’m not convinced $250k is middle class in NYC. SOmeone who thinks this is a real issue will need to provide some stats on cost of living comparisons between places like LA, NYC, Norman, Ok. and Cinci.

136 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:19:46pm

re: #134 sattv4u2

dammit ,, the Jets are going to win

LT looked good.

137 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:21:17pm

Football.

Tax the pass.

138 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:21:29pm

re: #135 Jeff In Ohio

The only way you level the field is through a more complicated tax code.

For instance, if you own a home in Oklahoma, chances are it did not cost as much as the guy in NYC, so his mortgage deduction is going to be much higher enabling him to take home more of his income.

While I do think $250k is the good life in Cincinnati, I’m not convinced $250k is middle class in NYC. SOmeone who thinks this is a real issue will need to provide some stats on cost of living comparisons between places like LA, NYC, Norman, Ok. and Cinci.


I think a LESS complicated one!

The Fair Tax comes to mind

Eliminate all inherent taxes on goods at the retailer level (something in the neighborhood of 24% before a product hits the shelf)

Them tax THAT product

LEVEL!?!?
Rich people pay more taxes , WHY?? they buy more and more expensive stuff. The price of A good doesn’t vary, only how many YOU decide to buy

139 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:21:51pm

re: #137 Jeff In Ohio

Football.

Tax the pass.

Watching some of these guys throw is taxing enough!

140 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:22:22pm

re: #136 Mr Pancakes

LT looked good.

ggrrrrr

Patriots Fan here ,, I NEEDED the Jets to lose

EVERY week!!

141 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:23:07pm

re: #135 Jeff In Ohio

re: #138 sattv4u2

I think a LESS complicated one!

The Fair Tax comes to mind

Eliminate all inherent taxes on goods at the retailer level (something in the neighborhood of 24% before a product hits the shelf)

ThemN tax THAT product

LEVEL!?!?
Rich people pay more taxes , WHY?? they buy more and more expensive stuff. The price of A good doesn’t vary, only how many YOU decide to buy


pimf

142 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:23:47pm

re: #140 sattv4u2

ggrrr

Patriots Fan here ,, I NEEDED the Jets to lose

EVERY week!!

Charger fan here….. liked it that Denver lost…… I still have a soft spot for LT…….. see you next week in our yard dude!

143 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:26:06pm

re: #135 Jeff In Ohio

SOmeone who thinks this is a real issue will need to provide some stats on cost of living comparisons between places like LA, NYC, Norman, Ok. and Cinci.

I have lived in a few places longterm
THE most is Boston (45 years) and Atlanta (12 years)

Car insurance,, what I paid for one car back in Mass I insured three for just a little more the next year in Georgia
Property Tax,, What I paid per quarter in a Boston Suburb I’m paying PER YEAR in Ga, and my lot is MUCH bigger here

144 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:26:36pm

re: #142 Mr Pancakes

Charger fan here… liked it that Denver lost… I still have a soft spot for LT… see you next week in our yard dude!


I’ll be there ,, well ,, HERE ,,,

145 Ojoe  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:33:28pm

There are more people coming to the food bank where I work & at the same time donations to the food bank, and the amount of salvage we get, are both down.

So no, the economy is not improving in human terms. it is in fact getting worse.

It cannot go on like this.

146 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:37:01pm

re: #145 Ojoe

There are more people coming to the food bank where I work & at the same time donations to the food bank, and the amount of salvage we get, are both down.

So no, the economy is not improving in human terms. it is in fact getting worse.

It cannot go on like this.

Just speaking for myself and a few closest friends, our contributions to area kitchens etc has increased just because of that

147 Decatur Deb  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:45:18pm

re: #135 Jeff In Ohio

The only way you level the field is through a more complicated tax code.

For instance, if you own a home in Oklahoma, chances are it did not cost as much as the guy in NYC, so his mortgage deduction is going to be much higher enabling him to take home more of his income.

While I do think $250k is the good life in Cincinnati, I’m not convinced $250k is middle class in NYC. SOmeone who thinks this is a real issue will need to provide some stats on cost of living comparisons between places like LA, NYC, Norman, Ok. and Cinci.

Living in NYC is its own reward.

148 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:48:52pm

re: #147 Decatur Deb

I live in New York. collectively, my wife and I make under a hundred grand a year. We’re middle class, and perfectly comfortable. If we had an extra hundred and fifty thousand to play with, we’d be upper class.

And yes, the point is that NYC costs more because it’s worth more to live here. I’m paying for access to the incredible shit NYC has to offer. That means I have a huge material advantage over people out in Oklahoma.

Personally, I really like the country, so I think it’s undervalued, but in sheer capitalist terms, it’s worth more to live in NYC. So the arguments that someone making the same in NYC as somewhere else isn’t ‘middle class’ is just bogus.

149 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:49:31pm

re: #143 sattv4u2

You didn’t know how progressive taxation worked.

What reason is there to believe you understand how any other tax works?

150 Decatur Deb  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:55:47pm

re: #148 Obdicut

I live in New York. collectively, my wife and I make under a hundred grand a year. We’re middle class, and perfectly comfortable. If we had an extra hundred and fifty thousand to play with, we’d be upper class.

And yes, the point is that NYC costs more because it’s worth more to live here. I’m paying for access to the incredible shit NYC has to offer. That means I have a huge material advantage over people out in Oklahoma.

Personally, I really like the country, so I think it’s undervalued, but in sheer capitalist terms, it’s worth more to live in NYC. So the arguments that someone making the same in NYC as somewhere else isn’t ‘middle class’ is just bogus.

Lived on the then-unfashionable UWS in the Pleistocene, including our first year of marriage. My top income was about $55 per week. That’s not much, even if you can bring down the occasional mastodon. Would not have traded it for the world.

151 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 4:57:29pm

re: #133 sattv4u2

and BTW ,, this all started when Kilgore couldn’t/ wouldn’t answer what HE thought “upper income” (his words) level was

I can’t believe you just deflected blame onto Kilgore for your own strongly maintained erroneous conviction. It might be funny if it wasn’t so sad.

Youtube Video
152 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 5:04:07pm

re: #147 Decatur Deb

Living in NYC is its own reward.

I went there once…… not for me I guess.

I could never live anywhere else other than So Cal.

153 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 5:04:20pm

re: #151 goddamnedfrank

I can’t believe you just deflected blame onto Kilgore for your own strongly maintained erroneous conviction. It might be funny if it wasn’t so sad.


[Video]

If “deflected blame” means someone couldn’t give me a declarative sentence as an answer to a straightforward question, well, yes ,, yes I did !

154 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 5:04:53pm

re: #152 Mr Pancakes

I went there once… not for me I guess.

I could never live anywhere else other than So Cal.

Question is ,, would anyplace else have you ?!?!

//

155 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 5:06:09pm

re: #149 Obdicut

You didn’t know how progressive taxation worked.

What reason is there to believe you understand how any other tax works?

I’ll apprise you of the day I care about what you beleive

156 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 5:06:09pm

re: #154 sattv4u2

Question is ,, would anyplace else have you ?!?!

//

Probably not… heh.

157 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 5:06:27pm

re: #156 Mr Pancakes

Probably not… heh.

Well then ,, I’ll meet you there !!

158 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 5:07:03pm

re: #150 Decatur Deb

My top income was about $55 per week

Show off!!
/

159 Ojoe  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 5:08:55pm

re: #146 sattv4u2

Just speaking for myself and a few closest friends, our contributions to area kitchens etc has increased just because of that

Hats off to you.

160 sattv4u2  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 5:14:06pm

re: #159 Ojoe

Hats off to you.

Wasn;t looking for a hat tip, just a note that there are some that are doubling their efforts to try to make up for the shortfall

Look at donations across the board. Look at the Jerry Lewis telethon. Even with a down economy it hit 59 Million in pledges,, about the 6th highest # since it started (1966)

161 ClaudeMonet  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 8:37:45pm

re: #20 goddamnedfrank

The DJIA is up 66% from March of ‘09, when his economic policies started to take effect. The S&P is up 72% and the Nasdaq up 90% in that time period. The markets are all up and America has once again returned to its rightful place as the most admired, popular nation in the world, so of course the curmudgeons are unhappy.

Chronology does not mean causality. “B followed A, therefore A caused B.”

Please don’t say that everything was crap, but instantly turned to gold as soon as there was a new President. You’re no moonbat; you know better.

162 ClaudeMonet  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 8:46:33pm

re: #41 researchok

How do we take geographic inequalities (if we do) into the picture?

Strictly speaking, we don’t. However, since a person in NYC probably pays much more in real estate, state income, and city income taxes than his/her counterpart in Idaho, the latter winds up paying more in federal taxes. And still comes out well ahead on the same income.

163 ClaudeMonet  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 8:50:41pm

re: #47 avanti

McCain’s daughter will get a bit of flack for this:

Senator McCain’s daughter calls O’Donnell a “nut job”

McCain.

How so? It’s not like Ms. McCain is running for office. O’donnell should be concentrating on her campaign in Delaware, but you can bet she’ll waste time on a response to Ms. McCain’s comments.

164 ClaudeMonet  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 8:53:34pm

re: #55 researchok

Right- and therein lies a minefield.

200K in NYC is not 200K in Idaho or Arkansas.

How do you feel about a flat tax, or consumption tax, a la VAT in Europe?

VAT is an awful idea. It forces those who have to spend more of their income on necessities to pay more in taxes, while those who are able to save (“the rich”) pay less.

165 ClaudeMonet  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 9:13:08pm

re: #72 researchok

Fair- and simple- tax codes for individuals and corporations. Close the loopholes that benefit the rich and corporate interests.

Good grief, I’m sounding like a lefty.

Too much LGF?
//

Ah, but who decides what is “fair”? Who decides what is exempt? If a so-called “flat tax”, what is taxed? I used to be amused by the proposals for “fair taxation” that inevitably wound up with less tax for whoever proposed it and more for others, but I’m not laughing anymore.

The devil is in the details, and more specifically in who writes the tax code.

166 ClaudeMonet  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 9:19:33pm

re: #90 sattv4u2

TAX THE RICH!!!

satt, this isn’t aimed at you; it’s for all who scream populist slogans about “tax the rich!”—

I’ve asked this before, now I’ll ask again—

Who exactly are “The Rich”? At what level of income and/or financial assets is someone “rich”? Hard numbers, please, and not “someone who makes and/or has more than me”.

167 ClaudeMonet  Sun, Oct 17, 2010 9:28:37pm

re: #123 Dark_Falcon

I use TurboTax. I put in the information and it tells me what I owe.

You still have to know where to input given information. If you have only a W-2 and no other income, it’s pretty straightforward, but it gets more complicated as your income sources become more diverse (interest, dividends, rental properties, partnerships, self-employed, capital gains and losses, etc).

As some of you know, I do taxes and small business accounting for a living (working for someone else, thank goodness). What I offer my clients isn’t just accuracy and knowledge, but peace of mind. And BTW, 99% of what I encounter can be handled by my software—TurboTax Premier.


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