US Warns Hundreds of People Named in Wikileaks Cables

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The New York Times reports that hundreds of human rights activists, government officials, and businesspeople named in the Wikileaks cables have been warned by the State Department of threats to their safety, and some have been moved to safer locations.

The operation, which involves a team of 30 in Washington and embassies from Afghanistan to Zimbabwe, reflects the administration’s fear that the disclosure of cables obtained by the organization WikiLeaks has damaged American interests by exposing foreigners who supply valuable information to the United States.

Administration officials said they were not aware of anyone who has been attacked or imprisoned as a direct result of information in the 2,700 cables that have been made public to date by WikiLeaks, The New York Times and several other publications, many with some names removed. But they caution that many dissidents are under constant harassment from their governments, so it is difficult to be certain of the cause of actions against them.

The officials declined to discuss details about people contacted by the State Department in recent weeks, saying only that a few were relocated within their home countries and that a few others were moved abroad.

The State Department is mainly concerned about the cables that have yet to be published or posted on Web sites — nearly 99 percent of the archive of 251,287 cables obtained by WikiLeaks. With cables continuing to trickle out, they said, protecting those identified will be a complex, delicate and long-term undertaking. The State Department said it had combed through a majority of the quarter-million cables and distributed many to embassies for review by diplomats there.

“We feel responsible for doing everything possible to protect these people,” said Michael H. Posner, the assistant secretary of state for democracy, human rights and labor, who is overseeing the effort. “We’re taking it extremely seriously.”

Which is more than Wikileaks did.

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274 comments
1 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 4:22:08am

Human Rights activists that have been exposed in the "arena" should be very afraid.

Assange (and the Assangelists) should be ashamed.

2 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 4:33:49am

2,700 cables that have been made public to date by WikiLeaks, The New York Times and several other publications, many with some names removed.

",,SOME names removed"

I'm sure thats great comfort to those whose names were NOT removed!!
SPIT!

3 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 4:42:15am

CHARLES

Between work and going back and forth to Boston to visit my mother I've lost track a little re: Assange

Is he still under "house arrest" in the palatial mansion awaiting the extradition hearing?

4 Obdicut  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 4:45:15am

re: #2 sattv4u2

Even though the names have been redacted in many of the releases, it's often easy to put two and two together and figure out who it refers to. Even the redacted releases give authoritarian governments a better idea of how the dissidents are organized, where there support is, and what they're likely to do.

Assange's philosophy runs immediately into real-world problems; his philosophy might have some merit if he could simultaneously reveal all the secrets of all governments on earth. Since he can't, the real result is that by revealing the secrets of the US diplomatic corp, including the support for dissidents and pro-democracy movements, he has given ammo to the governments that oppose those movements and crack down on those dissidents.

This is a trivially obvious thing that Assange either doesn't care about or never considered.

5 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 4:58:03am

re: #4 Obdicut

For the safety of those whose names are being published, I'm not as concerned about "authoritarian governments" as I am radical individuals who will want to take matters into their own hands

"Authoritarian governments" have many more ways to find out "how the dissidents are organized, where there support is, and what they're likely to do." then waiting for the morning edition of the New York Times

6 Obdicut  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:02:04am

re: #5 sattv4u2

I'm not sure you really understand, then. The morning edition of the New York Times normally doesn't carry leaked US diplomatic cables. Authoriarian governments don't gain magical intelligence-gathering powers simply because they're authoritarian; they're often very incompetent in that arena. Remember that we're often talking little pocket dictators, like Mugabe.

7 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:05:36am

re: #6 Obdicut

{sigh}

"Pocket dictators" lik Mugabe could give a rats ass about being " very incompetent in that arena"

IF they percieve an internal threat, they'll round up, imprison, maim and/ or kill hundreds of people to get to THE one they want.

8 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:05:36am

I've come to the conclusion that Wikileaks is another sign that human rights rhetoric has been taken over by pompous people with little regard for human rights. This organization could take a seat of "honor" next to HRW, the UN Human Rights Committee, and other moonbat NGOs that are helping to make the world a worse place instead of doing the job they were meant to do in the first place.

9 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:06:58am

Anne Francis has died!

Damn, I had a crush on her when I was younger

[Link: www.google.com...]

[Link: www.boston.com...]

10 Obdicut  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:07:56am

re: #7 sattv4u2

I have really no idea what you're talking about. Being a dictator doesn't give you magic powers to ferret out dissidents. Even if they round up a hundred, why do you think the one that they're trying to find will be in that hundred?

Did you not read this?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

11 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:11:08am

re: #10 Obdicut

I have really no idea what you're talking about

Again, that seems to be a common thread with you, and NOT just re: me!

Being a dictator doesn't give you magic powers to ferret out dissidents

Where did I say it does? Why do you assign something to someone that was never stated by them?

Even if they round up a hundred, why do you think the one that they're trying to find will be in that hundred

What part of "could give a rats ass about being very incompetent in that arena" was unclear?

12 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:14:24am

re: #6 Obdicut

Obdi? You know I admire your intellect. While we don't agree on a lot of things, you're knowledge astounds me.

here it is... "BUT"

Every time you type the words, "You don't understand" or "Actually" (or a variant) you lean toward being condescending.

You one of the best debaters (evah!) on LGF with that one small problem.

Read your comment again, omitting the words "You don't understand" and it will have a more powerful meaning, because it didn't open up with "You're a dumb-ass".

Sorry to do this publicly, but I don't know how else to tell you this. I only hope I am being constructive. I have a deep admiration for you, and I hope I didn't damage our virtual friendship.

13 Obdicut  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:15:34am

re: #11 sattv4u2

This really isn't a hard concept to grasp. Wikileaks release of these cables is not mainly concerning because of what radical individuals might do, but how authoritarian governments will use the information contained therein. As an example, I give you the Zimbabwean opposition leader, who, after the release of the cable detailing his connections with the US, was arrested on charges of treason-- not by a radical individual, but by an authoritarian government. The link is above. Here is text from the story:

The reaction in Zimbabwe was swift. Zimbabwe’s Mugabe-appointed attorney general announced he was investigating the Prime Minister on treason charges based exclusively on the contents of the leaked cable. While it’s unlikely Tsvangirai could be convicted on the contents of the cable alone, the political damage has already been done. The cable provides Mugabe the opportunity to portray Tsvangirai as an agent of foreign governments working against the people of Zimbabwe. Furthermore, it could provide Mugabe with the pretense to abandon the coalition government that allowed Tsvangirai to become prime minister in 2009.

Obviously, the Zimbabwean government didn't have this cable before it was released by Wikileaks, or they would have already charged him with treason.

Can you explain why you think radical individuals are of more concern than authoritarian governments?

14 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:16:53am

re: #13 Obdicut

I'll put it in terms you get!

I'm not sure you really understand

:)

15 Obdicut  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:17:48am

re: #12 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That's sweet of you, but I'm not going to pussyfoot around when I think someone else is being obtuse. I'm actually trying to communicate that I'm frustrated with the (total lack of) argument on Satt's part. If that's 'condescension', so be it.

I don't see any reason to give respect or tolerance to incredibly weak arguments-- especially when it's about something as dire as authoritarian governments using the info from Wikileaks to crush dissent.

16 S'latch  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:17:53am

WikiLeaks is a non-profit media organization dedicated to bringing important news and information to the public. We provide an innovative, secure and anonymous way for independent sources around the world to leak information to our journalists. We publish material of ethical, political and historical significance while keeping the identity of our sources anonymous, thus providing a universal way for the revealing of suppressed and censored injustices damaging American interests and exposing and endangering the lives of foreigners who supply valuable information to the United States.

17 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:18:32am

re: #12 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I've mentioned this before as well as the habit of answering a question with a question instead of a declarative statement

Sorry Obdi, but tis true!

Thanks Fatty

18 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:19:52am

I'm lost.
What're we arguing about this cold morning?

19 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:21:03am

re: #18 Varek Raith

I'm lost.
What're we arguing about this cold morning?

where would you rank Anne Francis for hotness in her prime!
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

20 Obdicut  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:21:34am

re: #18 Varek Raith

Not a hell of a lot. Apparently, even though Zimbabwe's government immediately arrested the opposition leader for treason based solely on a diplomatic cable leaked through Wikileaks, the bigger threat from Wikileaks is radicals taking matters into their own hands.

It doesn't really make any sense.

21 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:22:28am

re: #15 Obdicut

That's sweet of you

You just can't help yourself, can you?
It's like an uncontrollable facial tic, or something!

22 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:22:39am

re: #19 sattv4u2

where would you rank Anne Francis for hotness in her prime!
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Pretty damn hot.

23 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:23:04am

re: #22 Varek Raith

Pretty damn hot.

Bingo!

24 Obdicut  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:24:23am

re: #21 sattv4u2

Can you explain why you think radical individuals' use of the information contained in Wikileaks is of more concern than authoritarian governments doing the same?

Especially in light of Zimbabwe?

25 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:28:05am

re: #24 Obdicut

Can you explain why you think radical individuals' use of the information contained in Wikileaks is of more concern than authoritarian governments doing the same?

Especially in light of Zimbabwe?

Re-read #s 5 (2nd pa4ragraph) and 7

The answer is there!

26 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:29:43am

re: #15 Obdicut

Public discourse and all. I won't mention it again.

Y'all have fun. I have to be an hour and a half away in an hour.

Yeah... that's not going to work.

27 Obdicut  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:30:08am

re: #25 sattv4u2

No, it's not. The assertion is there; there is no support for your argument. I don't think you're actually interested in supporting your assertion.

28 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:30:30am

re: #26 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Public discourse and all. I won't mention it again.

Y'all have fun. I have to be an hour and a half away in an hour.

Yeah... that's not going to work.

I didn't know there was going to be math this morning!

29 Obdicut  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:31:00am

re: #26 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

My wife just left for her 8:00 lecture. It's 8:30. You guys are on the same page.

30 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:32:07am

re: #27 Obdicut

No, it's not
yes it is!

And there you have it

"You say yes, and I say no"

31 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:32:14am

re: #26 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Public discourse and all. I won't mention it again.

Y'all have fun. I have to be an hour and a half away in an hour.

Yeah... that's not going to work.

re: #29 Obdicut

My wife just left for her 8:00 lecture. It's 8:30. You guys are on the same page.

Just get the DeLorean up to 88mph.

32 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:33:57am

re: #31 Varek Raith

Hmm,, (an in prime) Anne Francis IN a DeLorean

Now I'm REALLY excited

33 Obdicut  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:34:05am

re: #30 sattv4u2

Except I backed up my argument with a clear case where an authoritarian government acted on the information from a Wikileaks cable release, showing that they didn't have the information beforehand. You, on the other hand, have backed up your argument with high-quality bupkis, of which you seem to have a very large store.

34 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:44:09am

re: #33 Obdicut

Thats nice!

So the Dale Carnegie course,, you never actaully took it, I see

I am SO sorry if I expressed an opinion about the fear for the safety of those whose names were leaked having harm done to them by someone other than "Authoritarian governments" or "pocket dictators" because in this world, in this day and gae we know NO radical individuals (or group of same) would EVER want to take matters into their own hands

35 garhighway  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:50:43am

OT: 103,000 jobs added in December, all private sector. (Public sector employment continues to shrink.)

And your Friday Krugman, talking about the Texas budget problems:

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

36 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:52:42am

re: #35 garhighway

OT: 103,000 jobs added in December

Good news, that, but I didn't see thr breakdown yet.
How many are "seasonal" (i.e. holiday retail etc)?

37 garhighway  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:55:24am

re: #36 sattv4u2

OT: 103,000 jobs added in December

Good news, that, but I didn't see thr breakdown yet.
How many are "seasonal" (i.e. holiday retail etc)?

I haven't seen any detail yet, either. The number itself is OK but not great.

They also revised the October and November numbers up some, which is good, but we still aren't seeing real robust hiring.

38 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:57:40am

re: #37 garhighway

I haven't seen any detail yet, either. The number itself is OK but not great.

They also revised the October and November numbers up some, which is good, but we still aren't seeing real robust hiring.

And Jan. is the typical time for a lot of retail companies to lay off employees. It's the slow season until around Easter for grocery. Kroger is in the process of a company wide lay off... I know... after 9 months at my store... I just got laid off.

39 Flounder  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:57:50am

Arrrgggg snow here in upstate NY. The wife is thrilled, the kids are thrilled, the cats are meowing and the dogs nipping at my heels (and gettting into the effing garbage) I hate snow, but its a good day to be alive!

40 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 5:59:49am

re: #37 garhighway

I haven't seen any detail yet, either. The number itself is OK but not great.

They also revised the October and November numbers up some, which is good, but we still aren't seeing real robust hiring.

Yeah ,,, iirc they're looking for somewhere in the vacinity of +250K per month for several months in a row before they'll call it a recovery (vis a vis the job market)

Here at work, they're still holding the line (a company that employs thousands worldwide)

At my location, we cut staff from one manager, one supervisor, four engineers and 9 operators down to 1 manager, 2 engineers and 4 operators (for a 24/7/365 operation center)

41 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:00:17am

re: #36 sattv4u2

OT: 103,000 jobs added in December

Good news, that, but I didn't see thr breakdown yet.
How many are "seasonal" (i.e. holiday retail etc)?

I am listening to a radio report right now on the unemployment figures... the announcer pointed out the fact that these figures have something to do with seasonal hiring, and the number of new hires is not as large as expected... and that the real indicator will be next month when the after holiday lay offs have run their course. The announcer said they expect the unemployed number to go back up by the Feb. numbers.

That's what I just heard.

42 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:01:32am

Last night the weather report was warning about an inch of new snow and treacherous driving conditions. The drive in to work was completely dry.

This is why I really should not pay attention to the TV weather dudes. They always get hyper over the slightest forecast, so there is no level of hysteria to ramp up to when we really do get a blizzard.

43 Flounder  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:02:23am

re: #36 sattv4u2

I follow John Krudelle in the NY Post and he has been basically saying for a while that the unemployment reports are an educated guess, it takes about a year to find out the actual numbers.

44 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:03:05am

re: #39 Shropshire_Slasher

Arrrggg snow here in upstate NY. The wife is thrilled, the kids are thrilled, the cats are meowing and the dogs nipping at my heels (and gettting into the effing garbage) I hate snow, but its a good day to be alive!

[Link: www.boston.com...]

Home /News /Nation
NYC plans to be ready for this snowstorm

45 Flounder  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:03:07am

re: #42 Alouette

Ratings Ratings Ratings
RUN TO THE STORE AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

46 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:03:44am

re: #41 Walter L. Newton

I am listening to a radio report right now on the unemployment figures... the announcer pointed out the fact that these figures have something to do with seasonal hiring, and the number of new hires is not as large as expected... and that the real indicator will be next month when the after holiday lay offs have run their course. The announcer said they expect the unemployed number to go back up by the Feb. numbers.

That's what I just heard.

Thanks

Thats what I was getting at

47 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:06:44am

re: #42 Alouette

Last night the weather report was warning about an inch of new snow and treacherous driving conditions. The drive in to work was completely dry.

This is why I really should not pay attention to the TV weather dudes. They always get hyper over the slightest forecast, so there is no level of hysteria to ramp up to when we really do get a blizzard.

We have some local weather geeks in our community, who post on our local community forum, and they usually are more accurate then the professionals. Here's our forecast for the weekend...

Last several runs of the long range models are in agreement that the global upper air pattern will change beginning Sunday. An upper trough from the Gulf of Alaska will move across CO on Sunday and bring an arctic front down from the north. This combination will bring upslope flow and snow to the Plains and Foothills beginning Sunday morning and should persist into Monday morning. Typically, there is a brief period of moderate to heavy snow just after the arctic front passes, and then the snow becomes quite light in the cold arctic air, so right now I would expect 1-2 inches of snow on the Plains, and 2-4 inches in the foothills from this system. Since there is some upper level support with the upper trough, we could see more snow, but will need to wait for higher resolution models to chime in later this week.

The biggest impact of this coming storm is the temperature. Monday night it should be -5 degrees (f) or colder.

48 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:11:58am

re: #47 Walter L. Newton

We have some local weather geeks in our community, who post on our local community forum, and they usually are more accurate then the professionals. Here's our forecast for the weekend...

The biggest impact of this coming storm is the temperature. Monday night it should be -5 degrees (f) or colder.

Well, one thing I have noticed now that I have HDTV is how fake are the toupees of all the elderly male newscasters and weather dudes, and some of the local info babes are way past their sell-by date.

Katie Couric is not too hard to look at. I am sure she must have had some work done on her neck flaps.

49 Flounder  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:14:12am

I'm off, the snow awaits, I wish everyone a great day...

50 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:15:01am

re: #48 Alouette

Well, one thing I have noticed now that I have HDTV is how fake are the toupees of all the elderly male newscasters and weather dudes, and some of the local info babes are way past their sell-by date.

Katie Couric is not too hard to look at. I am sure she must have had some work done on her neck flaps.

meow!!!

///

LOL

51 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:25:43am

re: #48 Alouette

Well, one thing I have noticed now that I have HDTV is how fake are the toupees of all the elderly male newscasters and weather dudes, and some of the local info babes are way past their sell-by date.

Katie Couric is not too hard to look at. I am sure she must have had some work done on her neck flaps.

Er... yea... right... certainly... we were talking about that last night at the dinner table.

52 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:28:09am

re: #51 Walter L. Newton

Er... yea... right... certainly... we were talking about that last night at the dinner table.

Dinner at your house must be a riot!

53 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:31:05am

re: #52 Varek Raith

Dinner at your house must be a riot!

Walter in his silk robe
The (adult) 'kids" jockeying for his attention

54 reloadingisnotahobby  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:34:07am

Good morning all!
5 dig with a chill at -2.....
Clear as a bell . 5 days with out getting above 27 dig.
This is getting old in a hurry!

55 darthstar  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:36:02am

Boehner says he visits facebook every day as his talisman to grab onto.

BRIAN WILLIAMS: When you go home next, is there a sidewalk, a place, a person that's kind of a talisman to grab onto? Again, talkin' about strength and the new job?

JOHN BOEHNER: Well, I get strength every day just uh, going to my Facebook site.


Check out the love he gets there... [Link: www.facebook.com...]

The extended rant by a birther is only part of the joy.

56 sizzleRI  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:37:18am

re: #34 sattv4u2

Thats nice!

So the Dale Carnegie course,, you never actaully took it, I see

I am SO sorry if I expressed an opinion about the fear for the safety of those whose names were leaked having harm done to them by someone other than "Authoritarian governments" or "pocket dictators" because in this world, in this day and gae we know NO radical individuals (or group of same) would EVER want to take matters into their own hands

Call me crazy, but it isn't it most likely that the danger to those whose names were leaked is posed by both authoritarian governments AND radicalized individuals/groups.

I like to think of this blog as a both/and kind of place.

57 darthstar  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:37:33am

re: #55 darthstar

Boehner says he visits facebook every day as his talisman to grab onto.


Check out the love he gets there... [Link: www.facebook.com...]

The extended rant by a birther is only part of the joy.

Here's one before they get deleted:

Charlene Bronson Reading the Constitution is Great.. Saying Obama is Born in US IS NOT GOOD and I DON'T BELIEVE IT! OBAMA'S GRANDMOTHER, THE HEAD HONCHO IN KENYA SAID HE WAS BORN THERE SO WHAT THE FRIG IS JOHN TALKING ABOUT WITH THAT STUPID BIRTH CERTIFICATE THAT WASN'T IT WAS SOMETHING THEY USE TO PUT NOTICE IN THE PAPER.. NOT A REAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE SO HE'S NOT THAT FREAKING GREAT JOB!! THEY ARE SO BAD THAT IF THEY DO ANYTHING THEY ARE GOOD.. I DON'T THINK SO BRUCE.. YOU MUST BE A DEM.. OR JUST DUMB..
58 reloadingisnotahobby  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:40:11am

re: #57 darthstar

And I thought my writing skills sucked....

59 darthstar  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:41:16am

re: #58 reloadingisnotahobby

And I thought my writing skills sucked...

I didn't know Obama's grandmother was the "HEAD HONCHO" in Kenya.

60 McSpiff  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:42:27am

re: #59 darthstar

I didn't know Obama's grandmother was the "HEAD HONCHO" in Kenya.

Wasn't it his cousin?

61 reloadingisnotahobby  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:42:35am

re: #59 darthstar

There's a coma there ...if you look real close...
Should that have been a period?

62 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:42:51am

re: #52 Varek Raith

Dinner at your house must be a riot!

Honestly... it's a mess. Let's see if I can explain this. Both the girls are over 18, out of high school. But when they moved up here 9 years ago, they didn't have any TV reception. So, they basically grew up on the internet. And their conversations are like hyperlinks... they can stop mid-sentence and change the subject, or in the least, mention some peripheral subject, and I sit their constantly asking them to rewind and clarify.

And if they are not changing the subject mid-stream, they will open their yaps in the middle of a thought, and expect me to know what they hell they were thinking before they opened their mouth.

Plus, they are all fanatics for Harry Potter fans, anime, Tolkien, South Park, troupes and memes, at a micro level. Yea, I generally have some idea what they are talking about, but I'm lost on the details.

The younger girls is a John Merrick, Phantom of the Opera, South Park and Batmans Joker fan, and some of her thought processes gets downright scary.

About once or twice a month, I shut them all up by reading one of my short one act plays at the dinner table.

My dinner table is like theatre of the absurd.

63 Obdicut  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:42:52am

re: #55 darthstar


Too bad, after promising to cut government spending, he still can't name a single program to cut.

The transparency of their lies is like greasy gossamer.

64 McSpiff  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:44:32am

re: #62 Walter L. Newton

Honestly... it's a mess. Let's see if I can explain this. Both the girls are over 18, out of high school. But when they moved up here 9 years ago, they didn't have any TV reception. So, they basically grew up on the internet. And their conversations are like hyperlinks... they can stop mid-sentence and change the subject, or in the least, mention some peripheral subject, and I sit their constantly asking them to rewind and clarify.

And if they are not changing the subject mid-stream, they will open their yaps in the middle of a thought, and expect me to know what they hell they were thinking before they opened their mouth.

Plus, they are all fanatics for Harry Potter fans, anime, Tolkien, South Park, troupes and memes, at a micro level. Yea, I generally have some idea what they are talking about, but I'm lost on the details.

The younger girls is a John Merrick, Phantom of the Opera, South Park and Batmans Joker fan, and some of her thought processes gets downright scary.

About once or twice a month, I shut them all up by reading one of my short one act plays at the dinner table.

My dinner table is like theatre of the absurd.

I didn't know my ex moved to Colorado! I had this look that meant "you started that thought in your head again, didn't you?" perfected...

65 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:45:00am

re: #62 Walter L. Newton

Honestly... it's a mess. Let's see if I can explain this. Both the girls are over 18, out of high school. But when they moved up here 9 years ago, they didn't have any TV reception. So, they basically grew up on the internet. And their conversations are like hyperlinks... they can stop mid-sentence and change the subject, or in the least, mention some peripheral subject, and I sit their constantly asking them to rewind and clarify.

And if they are not changing the subject mid-stream, they will open their yaps in the middle of a thought, and expect me to know what they hell they were thinking before they opened their mouth.

Plus, they are all fanatics for Harry Potter fans, anime, Tolkien, South Park, troupes and memes, at a micro level. Yea, I generally have some idea what they are talking about, but I'm lost on the details.

The younger girls is a John Merrick, Phantom of the Opera, South Park and Batmans Joker fan, and some of her thought processes gets downright scary.

About once or twice a month, I shut them all up by reading one of my short one act plays at the dinner table.

My dinner table is like theatre of the absurd.

P.S. We had homemade Miso last night. I didn't even know what Miso was... I still don't... it was alright... kinda of chewy... I hope that was all vegetable matter in that bowl.

66 reloadingisnotahobby  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:47:40am

re: #65 Walter L. Newton

You should be writing this stuff down...oh ..you are !
There's an award winning Play in your dinning room!LOL

67 reloadingisnotahobby  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:50:09am

The Puppy must be feeling a lot better today...He's pinging
around like an idiot on loco weed!

68 McSpiff  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:50:22am

re: #62 Walter L. Newton

I heard a researcher speaking on a CBC Radio (think NPR) program that basically said using pop culture references, such as quotes from The Simpson's or South Park was an essential part of male bonding. Established commonality and sense of 'tribe'. Similar to sports fans I imagine. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that was now extending into internet memes. I'm sure this is something humans have been doing since cave paintings.

69 darthstar  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:50:39am

re: #63 Obdicut

Too bad, after promising to cut government spending, he still can't name a single program to cut.

The transparency of their lies is like greasy gossamer.

Unfortunately, Boehner and the rest of the Republicans in power right now have no shame in admitting they don't know what the fuck they're doing. They just want to parade around on TV, raise money for the next election, and attack the black guy.

70 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:51:29am

re: #64 McSpiff

I didn't know my ex moved to Colorado! I had this look that meant "you started that thought in your head again, didn't you?" perfected...

I blame it on fluoride.

The two girls and my girlfriend do it all the time. I suspect it's because first off, they are very literate people, both in print and other media. My girlfriend reads 2-3 books a week, the kids have almost photographic memories and they have always shared their interests with each other.

I come into the family two years ago, and I'm the outsider. So when one starts a conversation in mid-thought or mid-sentence, everyone else is on point with each other... sort of a hive reaction.

Me... I just smile and nod my head.

71 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:55:31am

re: #68 McSpiff

I heard a researcher speaking on a CBC Radio (think NPR) program that basically said using pop culture references, such as quotes from The Simpson's or South Park was an essential part of male bonding. Established commonality and sense of 'tribe'. Similar to sports fans I imagine. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that was now extending into internet memes. I'm sure this is something humans have been doing since cave paintings.

It's become a asexual process now. All girls and my girlfriend. And I agree, the internet is the new radio or black and white TV, and just as I referenced The Lone Ranger or or I Love Lucy when I was growing up, we have a new source of tribe and community, and the internet is the bond.

72 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:57:00am

re: #66 reloadingisnotahobby

You should be writing this stuff down...oh ..you are !
There's an award winning Play in your dinning room!LOL

That play was already written... it's called "The Odd Couple."

73 McSpiff  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:57:02am

re: #70 Walter L. Newton

That actually sounds... nice? Seems like a very open environment with a free flowing exchange of ideas. I'm sure you'll be assimilated before too long.

You leave for Paris in a week? I'm currently working on a resume for engineering/programming gigs and I was wondering if I could forward that along to you? Not that I'm job hunting in Colorado, more just looking to have an experienced eye look it over.

74 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 6:58:41am

Republican dog and pony show of lies to repeal healthcare reform (live feed)....
[Link: www.cnn.com...]

75 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:02:34am

Hi folks. Spent nice three days in Vienna. Not nearly enough, of course. One of the highlights was seeing this triptych up-close.

76 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:03:26am
77 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:05:30am

re: #73 McSpiff

That actually sounds... nice? Seems like a very open environment with a free flowing exchange of ideas. I'm sure you'll be assimilated before too long.

You leave for Paris in a week? I'm currently working on a resume for engineering/programming gigs and I was wondering if I could forward that along to you? Not that I'm job hunting in Colorado, more just looking to have an experienced eye look it over.

It's a wonderful environment. And I can hold my own. When I actually do one of my play readings at supper, they actually listen. Like I say, they are very literate, and the younger girl knows as much about popular live theatre as I do.

Yes, I leave on 1-14-2011. And speaking of plays, I will be doing some on the spot research on Serge Gainsbourg... a French singer/songwriter... he's on my list of possible interesting subjects for a stage piece.

If interested... see... [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Sure... send the resume on... at your leisure.

78 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:08:41am

Possible Motive Probed for "Flare-Up" Packages

According to the Baltimore Sun, the package addressed to Gov. Martin O'Malley that was opened at the Jeffrey Building in downtown Annapolis included a note that read: "Report suspicious activity. Total [expletive]. You have created your own self-fulfilling prophecy."

79 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:09:16am

And on that note, the long quiet drive home beckons!

80 darthstar  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:10:01am

re: #76 Killgore Trout

Rudy gearing up for DC run
Meh.

Rudy's too sleazy even for Republicans

81 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:10:10am

*reading the illuminating exchange between Charles and Breitbart Simpleton*

82 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:12:15am

re: #80 darthstar

Rudy's too sleazy even for Republicans

It's too bad. I think he had a lot of potential.

83 reloadingisnotahobby  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:16:19am

I'm sure you are all aware of this job opportunity...

[Link: www.ksl.com...]

84 McSpiff  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:16:26am

re: #77 Walter L. Newton

It's a wonderful environment. And I can hold my own. When I actually do one of my play readings at supper, they actually listen. Like I say, they are very literate, and the younger girl knows as much about popular live theatre as I do.

Yes, I leave on 1-14-2011. And speaking of plays, I will be doing some on the spot research on Serge Gainsbourg... a French singer/songwriter... he's on my list of possible interesting subjects for a stage piece.

If interested... see... [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Sure... send the resume on... at your leisure.

Very interesting. Are you familiar with his daughter Charlotte at all? Her 'IRM' album has been a regular on my iPod. I'm not very familiar with her father beyond knowing that he was an artist as well, perhaps that something I should look into...

85 iossarian  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:19:20am

re: #77 Walter L. Newton

It's a wonderful environment. And I can hold my own. When I actually do one of my play readings at supper, they actually listen. Like I say, they are very literate, and the younger girl knows as much about popular live theatre as I do.

Yes, I leave on 1-14-2011. And speaking of plays, I will be doing some on the spot research on Serge Gainsbourg... a French singer/songwriter... he's on my list of possible interesting subjects for a stage piece.

You should do a "Copenhagen" style treatment and put Brel, Brassens, Gainsbourg and Renaud in the same room.

86 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:19:36am

re: #84 McSpiff

Very interesting. Are you familiar with his daughter Charlotte at all? Her 'IRM' album has been a regular on my iPod. I'm not very familiar with her father beyond knowing that he was an artist as well, perhaps that something I should look into...

Oh yeah. I learned about IRM from LGF. Seen Antichrist?

87 albusteve  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:20:53am

re: #80 darthstar

Rudy's too sleazy even for Republicans

ahahaha!....he is?, in what way

88 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:22:23am

re: #84 McSpiff

Very interesting. Are you familiar with his daughter Charlotte at all? Her 'IRM' album has been a regular on my iPod. I'm not very familiar with her father beyond knowing that he was an artist as well, perhaps that something I should look into...

I am certainly familiar with his daughter... and Serge wrote a rather controversial song for her called "Lemon Incest." It was a video with him and her in 1984. I won't link to it, but you can judge for yourself with this entry at Wiki...

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

89 darthstar  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:23:12am

re: #82 Killgore Trout

It's too bad. I think he had a lot of potential.

He put on a good show after 9/11, but people were desperate for a strong leader at that time (see Bush approval ratings, for example). But it was just a show. He tried to ride his name to power (like Sarah Palin is now) and the more he talked, the more people realized there was nothing behind that facade besides a noun, verb, and '9/11'...

90 darthstar  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:23:46am

re: #87 albusteve

ahahaha!...he is?, in what way

Well, most Republicans.

91 prairiefire  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:24:30am

re: #77 Walter L. Newton

It's a wonderful environment. And I can hold my own. When I actually do one of my play readings at supper, they actually listen. Like I say, they are very literate, and the younger girl knows as much about popular live theatre as I do.

Yes, I leave on 1-14-2011. And speaking of plays, I will be doing some on the spot research on Serge Gainsbourg... a French singer/songwriter... he's on my list of possible interesting subjects for a stage piece.

If interested... see... [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Sure... send the resume on... at your leisure.

Can you try to get me a good deal on a Birkin bag?/[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

92 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:25:26am

re: #80 darthstar

Rudy's too much a RINO for Republicans. And his exceedingly poor showing in the 2008 races - and the disastrous decision to not make a credible showing in the Iowa and NH races, staking his chances on Florida doomed his chances.

I don't think he's got a shot in the current political climate.

93 McSpiff  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:27:28am

re: #86 Sergey Romanov

Oh yeah. I learned about IRM from LGF. Seen Antichrist?

I haven't. Wasn't that film particularly brutal?

re: #88 Walter L. Newton

I am certainly familiar with his daughter... and Serge wrote a rather controversial song for her called "Lemon Incest." It was a video with him and her in 1984. I won't link to it, but you can judge for yourself with this entry at Wiki...

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Interesting... Not to sound like a Francophobe, but I can see that playing well in certain aspects of French culture... not the incest as such, but for some reason I'm just not surprised that this reached #2.

94 albusteve  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:28:16am

re: #90 darthstar

Well, most Republicans.

so Rudi had an affair, hardly sleazy by DC standards...and when you say "most Republicans" you point is pretty much lost, as if you know the inside life of hundreds of strangers

95 McSpiff  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:29:26am

re: #94 albusteve

so Rudi had an affair, hardly sleazy by DC standards...and when you say "most Republicans" you point is pretty much lost, as if you know the inside life of hundreds of strangers

Well, accept for the fact that a majority of republicans already rejected Ruddy once. Maybe not for being sleazy, but he certainly wasn't very popular whatever the reason.

96 albusteve  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:29:38am

re: #92 lawhawk

Rudy's too much a RINO for Republicans. And his exceedingly poor showing in the 2008 races - and the disastrous decision to not make a credible showing in the Iowa and NH races, staking his chances on Florida doomed his chances.

I don't think he's got a shot in the current political climate.

for some reason, he just slammed on the brakes...he must have had higher expectations and his ego took over

97 garhighway  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:30:25am

re: #46 sattv4u2

Thanks

Thats what I was getting at

Sometimes these numbers are "seasonally adjusted" which gets at some of that, but I haven't seen anything with enough detail to tell whether that applies here or not.

98 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:30:27am

re: #91 prairiefire

Can you try to get me a good deal on a Birkin bag?/[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Heh.
I just go for replicas.

99 albusteve  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:30:41am

re: #95 McSpiff

Well, accept for the fact that a majority of republicans already rejected Ruddy once. Maybe not for being sleazy, but he certainly wasn't very popular whatever the reason.

right, Lawhawk said it....RINO

100 darthstar  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:31:04am

re: #94 albusteve

so Rudi had an affair, hardly sleazy by DC standards...and when you say "most Republicans" you point is pretty much lost, as if you know the inside life of hundreds of strangers

I was only joking that you didn't find him too sleazy. And having an affair isn't what makes him sleazy. There's a greasy quality to Rudy...the way he sucks his saliva when he speaks and laughs. Maybe creepy is a better word for him. But some people like that.

101 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:31:38am

re: #85 iossarian

You should do a "Copenhagen" style treatment and put Brel, Brassens, Gainsbourg and Renaud in the same room.

You know, that's not a bad idea at all. Up to this point, I haven't found the "hook" I want, the thread that motivates me to write about him. He was very controversial in his time, he seemed to make a concerted effort to insult just about every cultural norm he could.

What I'm trying to see (and I'm not saying it's not there), but what I am trying to see right now is that point where the "genius" takes over the vulgar.

If I find that for myself, then I've found the hook. I need the "through thought" that moves a stage piece. I'm rather conventional when writing for popular mediums, and I like the ABC style of a beginning, middle and end, with minor plot arcs invading as we move forward.

The last time I had trouble finding my motivation was when I was writing the Holocaust story about Janusz Korczak and his orphanage "A Field of Buttercups." I had to go to Warsaw, speak to people who knew him, visited sites, learn more about Polish culture and it was at that point I found my thread(s) for my story.

I got to find that with Serge... haven't yet. That's why I will spend some time in Paris this month doing some research.

102 McSpiff  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:31:53am

re: #100 darthstar

I was only joking that you didn't find him too sleazy. And having an affair isn't what makes him sleazy. There's a greasy quality to Rudy...the way he sucks his saliva when he speaks and laughs. Maybe creepy is a better word for him. But some people like that.

Hey, Canada has elected a creepy robot twice now and he could easily win again...

103 albusteve  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:32:25am

re: #100 darthstar

I was only joking that you didn't find him too sleazy. And having an affair isn't what makes him sleazy. There's a greasy quality to Rudy...the way he sucks his saliva when he speaks and laughs. Maybe creepy is a better word for him. But some people like that.

sucking saliva is not presidential, you are right

104 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:33:23am

re: #96 albusteve

At the time, he was probably getting advice, and thought himself, that he could overturn the existing primary caucus system that dominates the primary season giving far too much power to Iowa and NH in shaping national politics, rather than big states that come later. Had he been successful, primaries, which generally start with NH and IA, and have several major days - Super Tuesday where groups of states conduct their primaries, would be rejiggered and candidates would likely shift emphasis away from the small states to focus on the major states that come later.

However, Rudy failed to stay in the game - to hold his own in those primaries, and by the time FL came around, he flamed out in spectacular fashion because for all of his focus on FL, he failed miserably - and didn't even win the state.

105 darthstar  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:33:45am

re: #98 reine.de.tout

Heh.
I just go for replicas.

When I was working and living in England, a woman paid 15,000 GBP for a Fendi bag at Harrod's, transferred all her shit from her old purse into it, then continued shopping. At some point she set the bag down while looking at other items and walked away from it...and the bag walked away from her. Didn't even get it out of the store before she lost it.

106 prairiefire  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:34:19am

re: #98 reine.de.tout

Heh.
I just go for replicas.

I did not know those were available...

107 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:34:55am

re: #93 McSpiff

I haven't. Wasn't that film particularly brutal?

Some scenes were. And in the end it leaves you wondering "wtf was all that about". The cinematography is beautiful tho.

108 prairiefire  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:35:00am

re: #105 darthstar

Where did you live in England?

109 McSpiff  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:35:11am

re: #101 Walter L. Newton

Very insightful post into process. As someone who does very little creative work, its an interesting read.

110 albusteve  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:35:58am

re: #104 lawhawk

At the time, he was probably getting advice, and thought himself, that he could overturn the existing primary caucus system that dominates the primary season giving far too much power to Iowa and NH in shaping national politics, rather than big states that come later. Had he been successful, primaries, which generally start with NH and IA, and have several major days - Super Tuesday where groups of states conduct their primaries, would be rejiggered and candidates would likely shift emphasis away from the small states to focus on the major states that come later.

However, Rudy failed to stay in the game - to hold his own in those primaries, and by the time FL came around, he flamed out in spectacular fashion because for all of his focus on FL, he failed miserably - and didn't even win the state.

maybe he's not comfortable campaigning out of state, or maybe he's just really arrogant...but I still think he would have made a decent president

111 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:36:08am

re: #98 reine.de.tout

The Mrs. is a huge fan of Harvey's Seat Belt Bags. They're durable, virtually, indestructible and quite distinctive.

112 darthstar  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:36:32am

re: #108 prairiefire

Where did you live in England?

I was in Newbury, about 70 miles west of London, for two years. 45 minutes by high speed train to Paddington station, and most of my clients were in the square mile (Financial district).

113 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:36:34am

re: #106 prairiefire

I did not know those were available...

I like this site better.

Couldn't find it earlier.

114 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:36:46am

re: #93 McSpiff

I haven't. Wasn't that film particularly brutal?

re: #88 Walter L. Newton

Interesting... Not to sound like a Francophobe, but I can see that playing well in certain aspects of French culture... not the incest as such, but for some reason I'm just not surprised that this reached #2.

Well, that's why I didn't link directly to in, in deference to different cultural sensibilities. The video bothers me actually, but at the same time, it also has something to say about the "character" Gainsbourg, and in that capacity, it's important to the story, or at least important to the back story.

About 6 years ago, I was fascinated by the idea of creating a one man show built around Hunter Thompson... spoke to his girlfriend/wife, I tried and tried to find my "reason" to write about him... never did.

Not saying someone else couldn't do it, or not saying it wasn't worthy to write... but it wasn't for me.

115 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:37:39am

re: #111 lawhawk

The Mrs. is a huge fan of Harvey's Seat Belt Bags. They're durable, virtually, indestructible and quite distinctive.

those are way cool!

116 prairiefire  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:39:57am

re: #112 darthstar

I was there as a student in 1982. I want to visit England again some day. The next time would be nice if I could go with a bit more $$.

118 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:40:36am

re: #109 McSpiff

Very insightful post into process. As someone who does very little creative work, its an interesting read.

Thank you very much. I suspect every artist, of any stripe, has their own process, whether self discovered (as my process is), or educated (as those who study), but the bottom line is still the ability to be creative.

119 albusteve  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:42:49am


Bank of America to charge consumers with low balance $9 for monthly maintenance

WASHINGTON — Bank of America will begin offering greater rewards to its most affluent and active banking customers but reduce services for its most basic users, executives said this week, as the financial industry seeks to make up for lower revenues amid heightened federal regulations.

why so many people do not like this bank

[Link: www.postandcourier.com...]

120 albusteve  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:56:29am

WASHINGTON – A former CIA officer has been indicted on charges of disclosing national security secrets after being accused of leaking classified information about Iran to a New York Times reporter.

Federal prosecutors charged Jeffrey Sterling with 10 counts related to improperly keeping and disclosing national security information.

does not say what laws are broken, penalties etc....I wonder if this will reflect on the Manning case

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

121 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 7:59:09am

Morning Honcos.

122 albusteve  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:05:50am

tactics, tactics!...shift in tactics!, new tactics!....good grief....they use mother ships, ah we already knew that...anyway the Somalian pirates are not giving up, and are moving further out to sea....these guys are expensive given the treatment they receive


Last year, pirates captured 53 ships in the region, up from 51 in 2009, according to the Combined Maritime Forces, which oversees the operations. There were 160 attempted attacks in 2010, up from 145 the year before

[Link: www.usatoday.com...]

123 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:06:42am

re: #120 albusteve


Jeffrey Alexander Sterling of O’Fallon, Mo., is accused of six counts of unauthorized disclosure of national defense information. He is also charged with unlawful retention of national defense information, unauthorized conveyance of government property, mail fraud, and obstruction of justice.

If convicted, he faces up to 120 years in prison and $2.5 million in fines.


It seems he's another disgruntled douche...

The indictment of former CIA agent Jeffrey Sterling says he gave secrets to a reporter after becoming angry about the agency's unwillingness to send him on undercover assignments abroad.


I don't think this effects the Manning case either way. This stuff has always been illegal and will continue to be so.

124 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:07:04am

re: #121 Cannadian Club Akbar

Morning Honcos.

Long time no see.
Sup?

125 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:08:17am

re: #124 Varek Raith

Long time no see.
Sup?

My visits have been few. Working on rectifying that.

126 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:09:39am

re: #125 Cannadian Club Akbar

My visits have been few. Working on rectifying that.

Do what I did... I got laid off last Tuesday, I have lots more time now.

127 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:10:57am

re: #126 Walter L. Newton

Do what I did... I got laid off last Tuesday, I have lots more time now.

That sucks. Did you put in enough hours to be able to draw unemployment?

128 iossarian  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:11:10am

re: #101 Walter L. Newton

You know, that's not a bad idea at all. Up to this point, I haven't found the "hook" I want, the thread that motivates me to write about him. He was very controversial in his time, he seemed to make a concerted effort to insult just about every cultural norm he could.

That's more or less the same with Renaud as well. I would say that Brassens was also pretty anti-establishment, but less abrasive (I just went to look at his bio on Wikipedia and loved this quote: "I'm an anarchist, so much so that I always cross at the zebra crossing to avoid arguing with the police."). Brel was just an amazing songwriter.

I've often thought about translating some of Renaud's songs as he's virtually unknown in the English-speaking world, but they are unfortunately more or less untranslatable (and, ironically, the perfect antidote to the notion that the French have no sense of humor).

129 prairiefire  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:11:49am

re: #121 Cannadian Club Akbar

Morning Honcos.

how the hell ya been?

130 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:13:28am

re: #127 Cannadian Club Akbar

That sucks. Did you put in enough hours to be able to draw unemployment?

Yep... I was there nine months... made the claim on Wed. Nancy Pelosi is happy. She sent me an email letting me know that my acceptance of an unemployment check will help save or create at least 3 jobs. Glad to do my bit for the country.

131 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:14:21am

re: #129 prairiefire

how the hell ya been?

OK for the most part. Got a couple serious decisions to make soon. Just when I think I have if figured out, something happens to make me rethink stuff. Meh, it will work itself out.

132 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:16:57am

re: #130 Walter L. Newton

I'm doing my part to keep county workers busy. I guess that's why they keep coming by and shutting off my water.:)
(they actually did Tuesday. A dispute over a deposit and I was correct)

133 albusteve  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:20:03am

re: #123 Killgore Trout

It seems he's another disgruntled douche...


I don't think this effects the Manning case either way. This stuff has always been illegal and will continue to be so.

thanks

134 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:20:36am

re: #128 iossarian

That's more or less the same with Renaud as well. I would say that Brassens was also pretty anti-establishment, but less abrasive (I just went to look at his bio on Wikipedia and loved this quote: "I'm an anarchist, so much so that I always cross at the zebra crossing to avoid arguing with the police."). Brel was just an amazing songwriter.

I've often thought about translating some of Renaud's songs as he's virtually unknown in the English-speaking world, but they are unfortunately more or less untranslatable (and, ironically, the perfect antidote to the notion that the French have no sense of humor).

Ah... that's a rub in the case of Serge. Some of his clever triple entendre is almost meaningless to an English hearing audience. And evidently, I would like to be able to get across what he was doing, lyric wise, to a English speaking audience.

That's why, from the start, I decided that I don't want to write a "musical" or a play with music. Just like my idea of never seeing a single child or orphan in my play "A Field of Buttercups," even though the whole play is a bout an orphanage, I want to isolate the man from his music, making the music incidental to the actual man.

It's a stretch... but that's the direction I want to go in... that's what's fun about writing... especially about a historical personage, finding the hooks, threads, through thoughts, and at the same time dramatizing without veering too far from the facts.

Now I'm all excited.

135 What, me worry?  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:23:11am

re: #119 albusteve


Bank of America to charge consumers with low balance $9 for monthly maintenance

WASHINGTON — Bank of America will begin offering greater rewards to its most affluent and active banking customers but reduce services for its most basic users, executives said this week, as the financial industry seeks to make up for lower revenues amid heightened federal regulations.

why so many people do not like this bank

[Link: www.postandcourier.com...]

That's actually pretty misleading (what a surprise).

If you keep a $1500 daily balance OR have a direct deposit to the account there are no fees. You don't have to maintain a $50,000 balance.

136 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:23:28am

BBIAB... got to go to the bank and juggle some funds... peace out.

137 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:24:16am

Mac App Store Attacked By Hackers

One well-known group, which operates under the name "Hackulous", claims it's developed a program, called Kickback, that breaks the copy protection in applications distributed through the Mac App Store.

A spokesman for the group who goes by the name "Dissident" told the BBC that Hackulous will wait until the Mac App Store is well stocked with apps before it releases Kickback on the Internet. "We're not going to release Kickback until well after the store's been established. We don't want to devalue applications and frustrate developers," Dissident said, according to the BBC.

138 What, me worry?  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:25:23am

re: #131 Cannadian Club Akbar

OK for the most part. Got a couple serious decisions to make soon. Just when I think I have if figured out, something happens to make me rethink stuff. Meh, it will work itself out.

Oh hey! Happy New Year dude!

139 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:25:42am

Study recommends lowering fluoride in water b/c it unexpectedly found that 13-18 year olds are having streaking and pitting of their teeth due to overexposure to fluoride.

If the EPA changes go through and levels are reduced, many municipalities may see lower costs result from not having to fortify the water supply with fluoride. It however, would also push those municipalities that haven't fluoridated their water to continue blocking the fluoridation even though it reduces cavities and improves oral health.

140 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:26:19am

re: #138 marjoriemoon

Thanks. Same to ya!

141 What, me worry?  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:27:20am

re: #137 Killgore Trout

Mac App Store Attacked By Hackers

This is what I like. Thoughtful law-breaking hackers!

142 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:28:44am

re: #135 marjoriemoon

Other banks are moving in that direction - pretty much eliminating "free" checking and passing on additional costs to customers after financial reforms enacted last year.

Banks are trying to eke out every last cent from customers, even as they give no value to maintaining savings or checking accounts (pocketing the spread on the interest rates set by the fed and what they pass on to customers (which is close to zero).

143 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:29:34am

Fear The Grasstops Not The Grassroots

I think it’s an indication that Boehner believes that the Tea Partiers are going to be a fairly easy bunch to manage. Toss them some symbolic stuff, and then blame everything after that on Harry Reid and Barack Obama, and you’ve pretty much done what you need to do.

144 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:33:12am

Breitbart still freaking out on twitter.

145 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:34:33am

re: #144 Killgore Trout

Breitbart still freaking out on twitter.

I musta missed it. Why the freakout? I mean besides being delusional.

146 What, me worry?  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:34:39am

re: #142 lawhawk

Other banks are moving in that direction - pretty much eliminating "free" checking and passing on additional costs to customers after financial reforms enacted last year.

Banks are trying to eke out every last cent from customers, even as they give no value to maintaining savings or checking accounts (pocketing the spread on the interest rates set by the fed and what they pass on to customers (which is close to zero).

But that's been going on for years - fee charging. We opened our BoA account 10 years ago and we shopped for the bank with the least amount of fees and most convenient. We haven't paid fees on our checking account in 10 years and nothing has changed there.

147 albusteve  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:35:02am

re: #144 Killgore Trout

Breitbart still freaking out on twitter.

probably from a hospital...he got pounded pretty good last night

148 charlz  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:35:32am

re: #139 lawhawk

Study recommends lowering fluoride in water

"In Cleveland, Ohio, fluoride was put into the drinking water in 1822--and not one of those people is alive today." -- Patrick L. "Pat" Paulsen (1927-1997), American comedian

149 What, me worry?  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:36:05am

re: #144 Killgore Trout

Breitbart still freaking out on twitter.

No way! That was hysterical last night. Gawd, is he a moron. Charles was killing me LOL

150 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:39:19am

Alrighty. Lunchtime. See ya'll again soon.

151 What, me worry?  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:39:41am

As national banks go, I'm finding BoA is pretty decent. Of course, I haven't had a problem with my account. You really don't know unless there's an issue, how they treat you. I had misery with Chase and Citibank.

152 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:39:58am

Andrew Butthurt.

153 albusteve  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:40:36am

Empire State Building to meet electricity needs though wind power
Deal secures more than double the amount of renewable power purchased by any other commercial customer in New York City

In a two-year deal, the building will buy 55m kilowatt hours worth of renewable energy certificates a year – the equivalent of its annual energy needs – from the Texas-based Green Mountain Energy Company.

how does this work?...I thought wind power was heavily subsidized

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

154 garhighway  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:40:40am

re: #146 marjoriemoon

But that's been going on for years - fee charging. We opened our BoA account 10 years ago and we shopped for the bank with the least amount of fees and most convenient. We haven't paid fees on our checking account in 10 years and nothing has changed there.

Has anyone else priced out a mortgage refinancing?

I did a few months ago, and while the rate was great, the fees were, to me, astonishingly high, with some clearly being just up-front profit in disguise.

155 What, me worry?  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:42:33am

re: #154 garhighway

Has anyone else priced out a mortgage refinancing?

I did a few months ago, and while the rate was great, the fees were, to me, astonishingly high, with some clearly being just up-front profit in disguise.

I've been putting this off and I shouldn't. I have a good rate, but I could go lower and I don't think we'll see those low rates for a long time, indeed.

What was your fee? and what bank if you don't mind the question? The last time I considered refinancing, they wanted to charge $250, but someone told me that was too high. I thought it was reasonable.

156 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:44:54am

re: #144 Killgore Trout

Breitbart still freaking out on twitter.

Lol.

157 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:47:01am

re: #155 marjoriemoon

Fees are highly dependent on the state and local requirements. Title insurance and other related filing fees have increased as states are looking at all different methods of generating revenues.

158 Big Steve  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:47:30am

Just getting caught up on some news but I am certainly glad to see that the "researcher" who bosomed up the original theory that autism was linked to vaccinations is now be officially labeled a fraud.

159 Henchman 25  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:49:58am

re: #158 Big Steve

As an actual Autism sufferer, I'm glad this stupid crap was dispelled.

160 What, me worry?  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:50:33am

re: #157 lawhawk

Fees are highly dependent on the state and local requirements. Title insurance and other related filing fees have increased as states are looking at all different methods of generating revenues.

Ah that's true.

161 garhighway  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:50:53am

re: #155 marjoriemoon

I've been putting this off and I shouldn't. I have a good rate, but I could go lower and I don't think we'll see those low rates for a long time, indeed.

What was your fee? and what bank if you don't mind the question? The last time I considered refinancing, they wanted to charge $250, but someone told me that was too high. I thought it was reasonable.

I see if I can find the paperwork, but the fees were in the multiple thousands of dollars. My mortgage was with a company that Chase bought, so now it's with them. I'm talking with them about the refi, and they are my bank, so you would think that a straight refi at a bank that already holds the paper and where I already bank ought to be cheap and easy, but you never know.

The really annoying thing was that the list of fees (which I will look for) included several items that just scream "pure profit". It gave me the sense that they don't give a shit about trying to make money on the mortgage itself, they'd rather just get it on the fees up front and call it a day.

162 What, me worry?  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:53:29am

re: #158 Big Steve

re: #159 SteelPH

Yea, but try to convince those who will doubt anyway. I had a terrible argument with a co-worker about this months ago. She says she vaccinates her child (I don't know if that's true) but swears that her neighbor's kid was stricken with autism through a vaccine. At any rate, the neighbor believes it.

My coworker is the sort that isn't wrong. Ever. About anything. And I really don't think she'll believe that the study was doctored. People are really stupid sometimes.

163 albusteve  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:54:44am

Anti Defamation League condemns the remarks saying, "comments are a disturbing reminder of the virulent anti-Semitism promoted by Hamas."
Mahmud Zahar, a senior leader of Hamas made the remarks during a memorial service for 43 Palestinians killed at a UN school in the Jabaliya refugee camp during an Israeli military incursion into Gaza in December 2008.

"a lie that has crumbled'....no proof otherwise of course

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

164 What, me worry?  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:55:45am

re: #161 garhighway

I see if I can find the paperwork, but the fees were in the multiple thousands of dollars. My mortgage was with a company that Chase bought, so now it's with them. I'm talking with them about the refi, and they are my bank, so you would think that a straight refi at a bank that already holds the paper and where I already bank ought to be cheap and easy, but you never know.

The really annoying thing was that the list of fees (which I will look for) included several items that just scream "pure profit". It gave me the sense that they don't give a shit about trying to make money on the mortgage itself, they'd rather just get it on the fees up front and call it a day.

Far be it from me to give advice on this subject, but it seems the rates are so great now, you could shop for another bank. $1000s really is too high. And I was worried about $250! I'm stuck with Chase on my mortgage now and I hate them. They gave me a host of troubles.

165 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:56:35am

Police silent on security as threat level for London is raised

British Transport Police are not commenting on reports that it has beefed up security presence at subway stations and airports after new information emerged about the possibility of an attack being planned in or near London.

166 What, me worry?  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:58:03am

re: #163 albusteve

Anti Defamation League condemns the remarks saying, "comments are a disturbing reminder of the virulent anti-Semitism promoted by Hamas."
Mahmud Zahar, a senior leader of Hamas made the remarks during a memorial service for 43 Palestinians killed at a UN school in the Jabaliya refugee camp during an Israeli military incursion into Gaza in December 2008.

"a lie that has crumbled'...no proof otherwise of course

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

Abbas wrote a Holocaust denying thesis in 1984? something like that. Is this a surprise to anyone?

167 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:00:29am

re: #158 Big Steve

But the antivaxxers will still hold to that mistaken (and dangerous) belief, even though the science and facts go against them. Wakefield was an outright fraud. His fraud - claiming the link - in a dubious study with such a small sample size that has now turned out to have been highly manipulated and Wakefield lied about the medical conditions of nearly all of its participants - has led to disease outbreaks, and deaths of preventable diseases. Those deaths and outbreaks are on Wakefield and those who continue to peddle the nonsense.

168 albusteve  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:03:31am

re: #166 marjoriemoon

Abbas wrote a Holocaust denying thesis in 1984? something like that. Is this a surprise to anyone?

more dope for the masses...can't let them detox, ya know

169 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:03:38am

re: #163 albusteve

When the Palestinians (and Arabs and Iranians and other anti Semites) deny the Holocaust existed, they often do so at the same time expropriating the language of the Holocaust for their own needs - claiming that Israel is perpetrating a Holocaust on Palestinians even as there has been no such genocide or ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. Period. Hysterical claims of genocide - like in Jenin - simply did not exist. But the lies persist and Hamas' top thug is merely repeating what has been long held by Palestinians - that the Holocaust, which was a major reason for the founding of Israel - took away their birthright and is somehow illegitimate.

170 garhighway  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:04:41am

re: #164 marjoriemoon

Far be it from me to give advice on this subject, but it seems the rates are so great now, you could shop for another bank. $1000s really is too high. And I was worried about $250! I'm stuck with Chase on my mortgage now and I hate them. They gave me a host of troubles.

You are absolutely right. I am being lazy in not shopping further.

171 albusteve  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:06:51am

re: #169 lawhawk

When the Palestinians (and Arabs and Iranians and other anti Semites) deny the Holocaust existed, they often do so at the same time expropriating the language of the Holocaust for their own needs - claiming that Israel is perpetrating a Holocaust on Palestinians even as there has been no such genocide or ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. Period. Hysterical claims of genocide - like in Jenin - simply did not exist. But the lies persist and Hamas' top thug is merely repeating what has been long held by Palestinians - that the Holocaust, which was a major reason for the founding of Israel - took away their birthright and is somehow illegitimate.

where is the UN?....shouldn't they step in and debunk these guys?, wouldn't that be a legitimate endeavor?....could the EU speak out for Holocaust victims in the name of reason and history?....nah

172 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:07:28am

[grunt]

Watching The House Circus™. Everyone thinks they're Boss Hogg of Boss Tweed.

173 sizzleRI  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:10:55am

re: #167 lawhawk

I can't get past the fact that his sample size was 12. The fraud is horrifying and I'm glad it has been cast into the light, but how could anyone ever have even considered what he did a real study. 12 kids!

174 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:12:55am

re: #172 Gus 802

[grunt]

Watching The House Circus™. Everyone thinks they're Boss Hogg of Boss Tweed.

I watched for a while but it was just too silly.

175 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:13:05am

So the Republicans know that HCR repeal won't go anywhere even if it does pass but they're going to talk it up anyway. Meanwhile, the Democrats also know the same thing but are still going to spend time show boating. Another session of political theater by a bunch of third rate attorneys.

176 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:14:02am

re: #172 Gus 802

[grunt]

Watching The House Circus™. Everyone thinks they're Boss Hogg of Boss Tweed.

Lol, what's he going on about?
Comparing the Forest Service to the Royal Forests of King John?
Lol

177 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:14:13am

re: #174 Killgore Trout

I watched for a while but it was just too silly.

Now we're on King John and the Magna Carta. I mean the Forrest Service. Or something.

178 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:14:51am

re: #176 Varek Raith

Lol, what's he going on about?
Comparing the Forest Service to the Royal Forests of King John?
Lol

Monarchy!

/

179 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:16:21am

re: #177 Gus 802

Now we're on King John and the Magna Carta. I mean the Forrest Service. Or something.

Wake me up if they start using references to The Big Lebowski as an allegory on Constitutional principles and individual liberty.

180 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:16:38am

The "Guardian" should change their name.

181 garhighway  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:16:56am

re: #179 Killgore Trout

Wake me up if they start using references to The Big Lebowski as an allegory on Constitutional principles and individual liberty.

Or if Forrest Gump makes an appearance.

182 What, me worry?  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:17:05am

re: #170 garhighway

You are absolutely right. I am being lazy in not shopping further.

Well I'm lazy not looking for a better rate. But man it's such a freaking hassle. I just have to suck it up and get on it.

183 Big Steve  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:17:24am

re: #167 lawhawk

But the antivaxxers will still hold to that mistaken (and dangerous) belief, even though the science and facts go against them. Wakefield was an outright fraud. His fraud - claiming the link - in a dubious study with such a small sample size that has now turned out to have been highly manipulated and Wakefield lied about the medical conditions of nearly all of its participants - has led to disease outbreaks, and deaths of preventable diseases. Those deaths and outbreaks are on Wakefield and those who continue to peddle the nonsense.

Well the current Girlfriend of Big Steve is a physician and a reasonably renown researcher into autism. She explained it like this. Suppose that were going to need a radio in a year. So you start today and buy, tuner, amp, speakers etc
...all the parts you need except you forget to buy a say a power supply. Well for the next year no problem because you don't need that radio. But the day comes that you need it and you assemble the parts and the damn thing doesn't work because you forgot to buy a power supply. Well autism is like this. Infants are developing all the parts for a fully functioning brain BEFORE they are actually connected up to use. So everything appears normal until you need it. Since autism syptoms show up typically between 12 to 36 months of age and most kids get six vaccinations during that time, there is about a one in twenty chance that the first noticable symptoms of autism will be in the week after a shot just based on normal probability.

184 What, me worry?  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:18:19am

re: #171 albusteve

where is the UN?...shouldn't they step in and debunk these guys?, wouldn't that be a legitimate endeavor?...could the EU speak out for Holocaust victims in the name of reason and history?...nah

The UN? Really. Oh Steve, you know better than that.

185 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:18:32am

Blood, Sweat and Tears!

What goes up...

186 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:22:17am

Title 10 Abortion Provider Prohibition Act!

Planned Parenthood!!11ty

Burp.

187 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:23:13am

I oppose the use of taxpayer dollars for wars I don't support!
Lol, nice logic.

188 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:24:13am

re: #169 lawhawk

When the Palestinians (and Arabs and Iranians and other anti Semites) deny the Holocaust existed, they often do so at the same time expropriating the language of the Holocaust for their own needs - claiming that Israel is perpetrating a Holocaust on Palestinians even as there has been no such genocide or ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. Period. Hysterical claims of genocide - like in Jenin - simply did not exist. But the lies persist and Hamas' top thug is merely repeating what has been long held by Palestinians - that the Holocaust, which was a major reason for the founding of Israel - took away their birthright and is somehow illegitimate.

I don't think there were visible claims of a "genocide" in Jenin, the term is "Jenin massacre".

What I find curious though is that the Holocaust did not seem to play any major political role in the run-up to the creation of Israel (the problem of refugees obviously played a practical role). It's not like the nations gathered and for moral reasons decided to award the Jews with the state because of the genocide, thereby coming up with the partition plan. There's no evidence they were so "sentimental". See [PDF]

189 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:24:39am

re: #187 Varek Raith

I oppose the use of taxpayer dollars for wars I don't support!
Lol, nice logic.

I oppose the use of taxpayer dollars for cheese advertising!

/

190 garhighway  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:26:38am

re: #189 Gus 802

I oppose the use of taxpayer dollars for cheese advertising!

/

Blessed are the cheesemakers...

191 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:26:45am

re: #189 Gus 802

I oppose the use of taxpayer dollars for cheese advertising!

/

Right!

192 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:27:08am

4000 millions!
Eleventy!one!

193 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:27:40am

re: #192 Varek Raith

4000 millions!
Eleventy!one!

What's this one selling?

194 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:28:06am

re: #193 Gus 802

What's this one selling?

Campaign finance reform...
I think.
?

196 What, me worry?  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:31:44am

re: #188 Sergey Romanov

I don't think there were visible claims of a "genocide" in Jenin, the term is "Jenin massacre".

What I find curious though is that the Holocaust did not seem to play any major political role in the run-up to the creation of Israel (the problem of refugees obviously played a practical role). It's not like the nations gathered and for moral reasons decided to award the Jews with the state because of the genocide, thereby coming up with the partition plan. There's no evidence they were so "sentimental". See [PDF]

The Jenin "genocide" or "massacre" (same difference) as you know was invented, but you better believe there are people to this day who still believe it.

The creation of Israel in 1947 was an extension of Zionism from Herzl and Co. which started at the turn of the century. In fact, Herzl was confident that it wouldn't be an issue with the Arab population in Palestine at the time because there was no Arab nationalism, no Arafat, no PLO. He assumed the Arabs would have no problem sharing the land. Didn't work out that way unfortunately.

197 What, me worry?  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:32:06am

Ack gotta dash... bbl

198 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:32:17am

Outrageous Outrage was bogus....
Does Anyone Believe New York Post's "Exclusive" About A Union Plowing Slowdown?


It's been a week since Rupert Murdoch's New York Post splashed its "exclusive" about how "selfish" union members of New York City's Dept. of Sanitation purposefully didn't clear local streets in the wake of the recent blizzard in an effort to embarrass the city's (formerly Republican) mayor, Michael Bloomberg. Why? Because he cut the department's resources.

The Post's "exclusive" was built around anonymous sources. The key sources were a handful of nameless union workers who supposedly spilled the beans of the slowdown plan to a local Republican city councilman, Dan Halloran. It appeared the Post did not actually interview those sources, but rather interviewed Halloran, who relayed what the nameless sources supposedly told him. (Yes, that's the definition of flimsy sourcing.) The claims of a work slowdown were quickly met with universal denials from city and union officials.

199 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:32:18am

re: #194 Varek Raith

Campaign finance reform...
I think.
?

Ah. "Campaign donation stuff." More pablum. Talking about corporate interests in the House. There's irony for ya'. The Citizens United decision does suck.

Here comes a sermon.

200 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:34:47am

We're fighting two World Wars!

201 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:35:16am

WTF is he going on about?

202 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:35:44am

re: #201 Varek Raith

WTF is he going on about?

The homeowners association. Wait in line. ;)

203 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:36:07am

re: #198 Killgore Trout

Media matters would have done better to explain why the NYT and Daily News reported the issues as well. And didn't investigate for themselves the claims. And doesn't explain Marcia Kramer's investigation at Ch. 2 showing Department plows running with their plows up - not plowing snowbound streets.

204 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:36:35am

re: #196 marjoriemoon

The Jenin "genocide" or "massacre" (same difference)

Very different things. Genocide is very specific, while a massacre can be done with or without intent on any group.


The creation of Israel in 1947 was an extension of Zionism from Herzl and Co. which started at the turn of the century.

(1948). Yes, that's what I'm talking about. Israel would exist in any case. So the people who say something like "the Palestinians are paying the price for the Holocaust" are wrong on more than one level.

205 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:37:38am

ACLU? De Fazio is an idiot. Odds are the ACLU would probably defend Mike Merola.

206 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:38:43am

Getting really thick now. Pinch me! Is it 1966?

207 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:39:11am

Counter culturist group!
Hippies!
OH NOES!

208 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:39:19am

Japanese Communist flag!

Aging hippies!

Anti-Americanism!

209 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:40:46am

re: #205 Gus 802

ACLU? De Fazio is an idiot. Odds are the ACLU would probably defend Mike Merola.

Oops. That's not DeFazio.

210 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:40:54am

re: #203 lawhawk

Oh, and there is one damned good reason for Bloomberg to say that it wasn't a slowdown - because he's got to deal with union contracts coming up and poisoning those negotiations further with backing the claims of a slowdown will make matters even worse. If he supports the notion of a slowdown/work action, then the Administration looks like its lost control over the department and city workforce.

211 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:42:09am

re: #203 lawhawk

Media matters would have done better to explain why the NYT and Daily News reported the issues as well. And didn't investigate for themselves the claims. And doesn't explain Marcia Kramer's investigation at Ch. 2 showing Department plows running with their plows up - not plowing snowbound streets.

The whole slowdown thing seems a little overblown and the original claims were very poorly sourced. As for the plows up thing; I see it all the time. Maybe they were going somewhere. Maybe they were going down the street to turn around and plow the other direction. Maybe it was the end of their shift and they were going back to base. Maybe they were just being lazy.

212 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:42:24am

re: #204 Sergey Romanov

And the Palestinians were saying it was a genocide. It was part and parcel of the rhetoric and propaganda

That the incident was nothing of the sort is irrelevant. The Palestinians made the claim, and that's what stuck.

213 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:42:28am

re: #209 Gus 802

Oops. That's not DeFazio.

Meant Steve King.

214 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:42:28am

Blahblahblahblah.
/Senate

215 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:42:55am

re: #214 Varek Raith

Blahblahblahblah.
/Senate

House. ;)

216 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:43:14am

re: #215 Gus 802

House. ;)

Dammit!
;)

217 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:44:06am

Huh...?
We weren't in a healthcare crisis before this reform?

218 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:44:15am

Anyone watching the CSPAN feed of the HOR ought to do it with an electoral map in hand. Look at who is speaking and what district s/he comes from and Cook Political +/- for that district.

Some are pandering to the home crowd. Some are committing political suicide by handing potential opponents for the next cycle some really good material. Your typical representative is neither smart nor well grounded psychologically. That goes for both sides of the aisle. These are people who fight to get to the job and then say "now what" and have no plan, no strategy and few leadership skills.

It is like an ongoing convention of mediocre motivational speakers.

Same circus - "new" acts.

219 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:44:23am

re: #216 Varek Raith

Dammit!
;)

Steve "Babies Born in Dumpsters" King

221 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:45:56am

re: #211 Killgore Trout

The claims were serious enough to merit attention of federal prosecutors and prosecutors in Brooklyn and Queens, and that the Department unit in Brooklyn that was among the poorest performing will get GPS units installed to see whether they're doing an effective job.

To me, the most important breakdown was the one that started at the top - as I've said from the outset. The failure to declare a snow emergency led to a series of failures - cars being on snow emergency routes that could not get properly plowed, leading to a breakdown in secondary and tertiary streets being cleared.

The MTA similarly made problems at the outset worse by not adapting a more serious posture and upgrading their alert level to the most serious level and continuing to send buses and subways out even as the street and rail conditions worsened.

222 garhighway  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:48:24am

OT:

Krugman blog post, from today's NYT.

January 5, 2011, 8:37 am
Fiscal Shock

I see that the Washington Post editorial board is shocked, shocked to discover that the incoming Republicans aren’t serious about deficit reduction. Who could have suspected?

I was going to be snarky all the way here, but actually let’s be serious: the gullibility of much of the media establishment on all this amounts to journalistic malpractice..

Republicans have, after all, been the party of fiscal irresponsibility since 1980; the GW Bush administration confirmed, if anyone was in doubt, that unfunded tax cuts are now in the party’s DNA.

Then along comes a Democratic president who presides over all of two years of deficits in the immediate aftermath of a severe financial crisis – which is a time when you’re actually supposed to run deficits. Republicans begin inveighing against the evils of red ink – and, incredibly, get taken at face value.

And even if you didn’t know the history, if you actually paid attention to what leading Republicans were saying, their lack of seriousness was totally obvious. You had the Ryan plan, which claimed to reduce the deficit but, if you actually looked into it at all, relied completely on magic asterisks; you had the declarations by top Republicans that deficits are terrible but there’s no need to offset the cost of tax cuts.

The idea that these people were allowed to pose as deficit hawks is stunning.

Oh, and for those claiming that Republicans have always said that spending, not deficits is what matters: first of all, this is very much revisionist history; you can’t denounce the federal debt, then claim that you never cared about the revenue side of things. Beyond that, the deficit scare tactics lately have been all about solvency, not mere crowding out; repent, they said, or you’ll turn into Greeeeeece. That’s a scare story about solvency, for which the deficit, not spending, is what matters.

Why the blindness? I suspect a lot of it had to do with the desire to seem balanced. Journalists felt that they had to find Republican fiscal heroes, just to show how even-handed and open-minded they were. To say that the whole deficit thing was a political ploy, with no substance behind it, sounded shrill.

The truth often does.

223 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:49:29am

Lol, the Insurance companies do not act in a free market.

224 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:50:03am

re: #222 garhighway

If they aren't going to introduce any austerity programs then Krugman should be happy.

225 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:52:19am

re: #222 garhighway

OT:

Krugman blog post, from today's NYT.

January 5, 2011, 8:37 am
Fiscal Shock

I see that the Washington Post editorial board is shocked, shocked to discover that the incoming Republicans aren’t serious about deficit reduction. Who could have suspected?

I was going to be snarky all the way here, but actually let’s be serious: the gullibility of much of the media establishment on all this amounts to journalistic malpractice..

Republicans have, after all, been the party of fiscal irresponsibility since 1980; the GW Bush administration confirmed, if anyone was in doubt, that unfunded tax cuts are now in the party’s DNA.

Then along comes a Democratic president who presides over all of two years of deficits in the immediate aftermath of a severe financial crisis – which is a time when you’re actually supposed to run deficits. Republicans begin inveighing against the evils of red ink – and, incredibly, get taken at face value.

And even if you didn’t know the history, if you actually paid attention to what leading Republicans were saying, their lack of seriousness was totally obvious. You had the Ryan plan, which claimed to reduce the deficit but, if you actually looked into it at all, relied completely on magic asterisks; you had the declarations by top Republicans that deficits are terrible but there’s no need to offset the cost of tax cuts.

The idea that these people were allowed to pose as deficit hawks is stunning.

Oh, and for those claiming that Republicans have always said that spending, not deficits is what matters: first of all, this is very much revisionist history; you can’t denounce the federal debt, then claim that you never cared about the revenue side of things. Beyond that, the deficit scare tactics lately have been all about solvency, not mere crowding out; repent, they said, or you’ll turn into Greeece. That’s a scare story about solvency, for which the deficit, not spending, is what matters.

Why the blindness? I suspect a lot of it had to do with the desire to seem balanced. Journalists felt that they had to find Republican fiscal heroes, just to show how even-handed and open-minded they were. To say that the whole deficit thing was a political ploy, with no substance behind it, sounded shrill.

The truth often does.

Then what the fuck is he bitching about... he should feel right at home with these faux Democrats.

226 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:53:37am

re: #223 Varek Raith

Lol, the Insurance companies do not act in a free market.

If people were allowed to buy insurance "across state lines" the end result would be a rise in across the board (state) insurance rates. It's sort of like pretending to think that "Wyoming rates" would be equal to "California rate". Or comparing the costs of running health care in Wyoming vs. California. The reason insurance rates are higher in California is a reflection of the regional state costs.

227 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:54:18am

re: #223 Varek Raith

The closest thing to a free market is a vegetable stand. Assuming the farmer doesn't take subsidies.

The whole contemporary political language of economics in inoperable. Both the demagogues on the left and right exploit that fact. Most people just go along with it and pick sides.

228 Obdicut  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:54:34am

re: #222 garhighway

Yep. I don't understand anyone who thinks of the GOP in any way as fiscally responsible. The GOP is actively, engagedly, happily, shoutingly fiscally irresponsible and delusional. From yelling about how they're all about cuts (and not being able to name any cuts) to hyperventilating about the deficit (and then refusing to raise revenue to actually pay for that deficit), their economic plan could be written by a small child with a rubber stamp marked 'cut taxes'.

229 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:54:51am

Death Panels!

230 iossarian  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:55:43am

re: #229 Varek Raith

Death Panels!

JOB KILLERS!

231 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:56:17am

It's a bit like saying people that drive in Manhattan should be able to get car insurance at rates people pay in Bedford Falls, USA.

232 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:56:43am

re: #212 lawhawk

And the Palestinians were saying it was a genocide. It was part and parcel of the rhetoric and propaganda.

Any source on this? While googling for Jenin genocide will bring up a smattering of links, most of them don't seem either prominent or Palestinian. While I'm sure you can find some Palestinians uncritically calling it a genocide, I doubt it was a "part and parcel" of rhetoric and propaganda (as opposed to using the term "massacre"), and if so, it is not correct to ascribe it to "the Palestinians" - no more correct than ascribing birtherism to "the Americans".

I mean, you won't find the term used even in Wiki entry, nor in articles like this and this, that describe the Palestinian message.

Again, as far as I remember, the primary claim about it was that it was a massacre, not that it was a genocide. If I'm wrong, I will gladly stand corrected.

233 Obdicut  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:58:20am

re: #231 Gus 802

Not to mention that the same thing would happen as did with credit cards; companies would relocate to the state that had the fewest consumer protections, so even if you did want that sweet insurance policy you spotted over the border in Wyoming, that company has now fucked off the Delaware where it's rewriting its policies to take advantage of liability shielding and a friendly legislature.

234 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 9:59:34am

re: #226 Gus 802

If people were allowed to buy insurance "across state lines" the end result would be a rise in across the board (state) insurance rates. It's sort of like pretending to think that "Wyoming rates" would be equal to "California rate". Or comparing the costs of running health care in Wyoming vs. California. The reason insurance rates are higher in California is a reflection of the regional state costs.

Sorry - can't agree. i have been a multi-state employer. the smaller the market the easier it is to carve out market position, defend it and raise rates. I have lived it and watched premiums climb higher and higher with each round of "reforms" none of which did anything but give the key, politically connected players more structural advantages and the actual buyers less leverage.

Unavoidable fact is that stratified industrial will have a highly regulated national health service / single payer system and that system will be stingy and will ration care. Otherwise you get oligopolists raising prices against inelastic demand - most people value living.

235 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 10:00:07am

re: #232 Sergey Romanov

Any source on this? While googling for Jenin genocide will bring up a smattering of links, most of them don't seem either prominent or Palestinian. While I'm sure you can find some Palestinians uncritically calling it a genocide, I doubt it was a "part and parcel" of rhetoric and propaganda (as opposed to using the term "massacre"), and if so, it is not correct to ascribe it to "the Palestinians" - no more correct than ascribing birtherism to "the Americans".

I mean, you won't find the term used even in Wiki entry, nor in articles like this and this, that describe the Palestinian message.

Again, as far as I remember, the primary claim about it was that it was a massacre, not that it was a genocide. If I'm wrong, I will gladly stand corrected.

By definition, what is alleged to have occurred in Jenin could not be called "genocide" unless the entire population of Palestine was assembled in Jenin.

236 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 10:00:37am

re: #233 Obdicut

Not to mention that the same thing would happen as did with credit cards; companies would relocate to the state that had the fewest consumer protections, so even if you did want that sweet insurance policy you spotted over the border in Wyoming, that company has now fucked off the Delaware where it's rewriting its policies to take advantage of liability shielding and a friendly legislature.

Or you would create a national insurance premium rate. IOW an average cost that would account for all state. So while people would see slightly lower rates in California we would see higher rates in say, Kansas. Anyway, lower anything is counter intuitive in the American experience. Nothing goes down. It only goes up.

237 garhighway  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 10:01:24am

re: #226 Gus 802

If people were allowed to buy insurance "across state lines" the end result would be a rise in across the board (state) insurance rates. It's sort of like pretending to think that "Wyoming rates" would be equal to "California rate". Or comparing the costs of running health care in Wyoming vs. California. The reason insurance rates are higher in California is a reflection of the regional state costs.

The "across state lines" thing is an attempt to let carriers engage in a race to the bottom, as they all domicile in the state with the least regulation.

It accomplishes nothing beyond that.

238 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 10:03:44am

re: #234 karmic_inquisitor

Sorry - can't agree. i have been a multi-state employer. the smaller the market the easier it is to carve out market position, defend it and raise rates. I have lived it and watched premiums climb higher and higher with each round of "reforms" none of which did anything but give the key, politically connected players more structural advantages and the actual buyers less leverage.

Unavoidable fact is that stratified industrial will have a highly regulated national health service / single payer system and that system will be stingy and will ration care. Otherwise you get oligopolists raising prices against inelastic demand - most people value living.

No. Insurance rates are based on the state medical market. Wyoming rates are based on what hospitals and doctors charge in Wyoming. They are not based on what hospitals and doctors charge in California or Hawaii, etc. It would be possible only if you get "Wyoming rate" but it would be pro-rated downward meaning that you would get less coverage. It is like I said much like auto insurance.

239 garhighway  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 10:03:52am

re: #224 karmic_inquisitor

If they aren't going to introduce any austerity programs then Krugman should be happy.

Krugman wants the math to work. Beyond that, you can then make policy choices that are above board and debate them on their merits. But when you lie about the numbers, you short-circuit honest debate.

240 iossarian  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 10:04:29am

re: #235 Alouette

By definition, what is alleged to have occurred in Jenin could not be called "genocide" unless the entire population of Palestine was assembled in Jenin.

Not to nitpick, but the definition of genocide specifically includes the words "in whole or in part" in referring to the attempted elimination of an ethnic group. Besides which, any "entire population" definition would pretty much rule out most current uses of the word.

241 nonono  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 10:05:28am

When the bond market's raise the borrowing cost due to the over spending and the ability of congress,senate and adminstration to cut spending it does seem that market force will force spending cuts no matter who votes one way or the other.

Seems that there are national and international forces larger than 220 of Congress, 51 Senators and a lone President.

242 garhighway  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 10:09:28am

re: #241 nonono

When the bond market's raise the borrowing cost due to the over spending and the ability of congress,senate and adminstration to cut spending it does seem that market force will force spending cuts no matter who votes one way or the other.

Seems that there are national and international forces larger than 220 of Congress, 51 Senators and a lone President.

I attended a presentation of my company's corporate economist a few months ago. one interesting thing he said was that with the rise of the domestic savings rate, the US deficit was, for the near-term, entirely self-financed. That is, we don't need ANY foreign money to finance the US debt.

243 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 10:12:07am

re: #237 garhighway

Not exactly. Allowing insurers to work across state lines means that a person could obtain a bare bones policy, if that's what they wanted, rather than the in-state mandated minimum level of policy that can be substantially higher than what that person wants or needs.

NY mandates certain policy coverages, which drive up the costs for an individual buying those policies. If the person could obtain a policy from another state - that doesn't have those requirements, the policy cost to that individual would be lower.

244 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 10:14:05am

re: #235 Alouette

By definition, what is alleged to have occurred in Jenin could not be called "genocide" unless the entire population of Palestine was assembled in Jenin.

Obviously. Though, I must say, not for the reason you indicate, because the UN definition correctly has the clause "or in part". It wasn't a genocide both because of the low casualties and because there was no evidence whatsoever of any intent to destroy "in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group".

245 garhighway  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 10:15:46am

re: #243 lawhawk

Not exactly. Allowing insurers to work across state lines means that a person could obtain a bare bones policy, if that's what they wanted, rather than the in-state mandated minimum level of policy that can be substantially higher than what that person wants or needs.

NY mandates certain policy coverages, which drive up the costs for an individual buying those policies. If the person could obtain a policy from another state - that doesn't have those requirements, the policy cost to that individual would be lower.

And if one state requires (for example) policy language that is clear and concise, and another doesn't, then where will the carrier go? Or one forbids policy terms that are unfair and unreasonable, and another doesn't, what do you think will happen?

I agree that there are potentially innocent reasons for this. My experience with that industry tells me that won't be what happens. It will be a race to the bottom, pure and simple.

246 garhighway  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 10:19:39am

re: #243 lawhawk

Not exactly. Allowing insurers to work across state lines means that a person could obtain a bare bones policy, if that's what they wanted, rather than the in-state mandated minimum level of policy that can be substantially higher than what that person wants or needs.

NY mandates certain policy coverages, which drive up the costs for an individual buying those policies. If the person could obtain a policy from another state - that doesn't have those requirements, the policy cost to that individual would be lower.

hypothetical:

State A requires that annual and lifetime policy limits have to be at least certain amounts, to be sure that the coverage is adequate. State B allows insufficient limits and further permits the policy to be marketed in a way that allows the carrier to avoid obvious disclosure of those inadequate limits.

One could say that state A has a regulation that "drives up the cost of coverage". That statement would be accurate. But would you really want to encourage carriers to domicile in State B so they could sell the crapola deceptive policy? Would that be, in the grand scheme of things, a good idea?

247 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 10:21:02am

re: #243 lawhawk

Not exactly. Allowing insurers to work across state lines means that a person could obtain a bare bones policy, if that's what they wanted, rather than the in-state mandated minimum level of policy that can be substantially higher than what that person wants or needs.

NY mandates certain policy coverages, which drive up the costs for an individual buying those policies. If the person could obtain a policy from another state - that doesn't have those requirements, the policy cost to that individual would be lower.

Doctors also charge more in NY. It's also more expensive to repair the MRI machine in NY. It costs more to heat a hospital in NY that in say, South Carolina. Hospital labor costs, cost of living, etc. The only way it would work would be as you state, "a bare bones policy". Which would mean yes the rates would be lower but you would have to get less in order for the insurance company to make a profit.

248 shutdown  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 10:32:31am

OT. I have an Ivy League education along with a top 15 law school degree. I have an outstanding active vocabulary. Why is it, then, that whenever I see a Glenn Beck clip, all that comes to mind is an image of me (as a little boy) tugging on my mother's hand, saying: "Mommy, that man makes me sad".?

249 Kragar  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 10:36:10am

re: #248 imp_62

OT. I have an Ivy League education along with a top 15 law school degree. I have an outstanding active vocabulary. Why is it, then, that whenever I see a Glenn Beck clip, all that comes to mind is an image of me (as a little boy) tugging on my mother's hand, saying: "Mommy, that man makes me sad".?

If Glenn was 20 years younger, he'd be a staple faced emo kid.

250 shutdown  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 10:37:44am

re: #249 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Image: 342px-Emo_boy_03_in_rage.jpg

GB before he had a radio show

251 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 10:42:31am

re: #238 Gus 802

No. Insurance rates are based on the state medical market. Wyoming rates are based on what hospitals and doctors charge in Wyoming. They are not based on what hospitals and doctors charge in California or Hawaii, etc. It would be possible only if you get "Wyoming rate" but it would be pro-rated downward meaning that you would get less coverage. It is like I said much like auto insurance.

Look - my sister who has been a trauma surgeon in San Jose for almost 20 years (with a 4 year stint being the chief surgeon at a midwestern hospital) just quit. She was an Obama supporter, gave, volunteered, went to an inaugural ball - the works. She quit because the situation has worsened and she sees no end to a shrinking income that started shrinking about 10 years ago.

She went to the midwest because the insurers/payers were not taking as much as in the SF bay area (where rates are among the highest in the country, yet practitioner incomes are shrinking). then the fix started there too.

Now she will make twice as much money auditing hospitals. That's right - she joined the bean counters and will make more money than anyone in the operating room (except maybe the top nurses - the nurses union in the SF bay area is quite strong).

When you segment the market and shrink both the resource and risk pools you create room for the oligopolists to do their thing. the point of going interstate is to spread both pools. Practitioners LIKE having more than one payer - there is a chance they might get paid better by one than another. When you force a market to have few payers who have an incentive to drive up costs and where the consumer will not walk away from a higher priced product then you get what we have.

And people are leaving the field in these markets - like silicon valley, where car accident victims will now get lower quality care because the experienced trauma surgeons can't make a living (my sister has a mortgage on a 1200 square foot house and drives a 12 year old car and has no retirement savings - she used to live better 10 years ago).

Ezra Klein et al are free to spit out whatever talking points they want to rationalize the "reform" package we want and it is interesting to see the left defend it now that they own it, but the plain fact is that we have all made the situation worse. It has nothing to do with the cost of the providers - it has to do with the protection afforded the payers and the pharmas to get a deal done.

We have one option left - single payer.

252 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 10:43:26am

Breitbart is still at it on Twitter... throwing around 'reverse racism' accusations like a lunatic.

254 garhighway  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 10:49:02am

re: #251 karmic_inquisitor

Look - my sister who has been a trauma surgeon in San Jose for almost 20 years (with a 4 year stint being the chief surgeon at a midwestern hospital) just quit. She was an Obama supporter, gave, volunteered, went to an inaugural ball - the works. She quit because the situation has worsened and she sees no end to a shrinking income that started shrinking about 10 years ago.

She went to the midwest because the insurers/payers were not taking as much as in the SF bay area (where rates are among the highest in the country, yet practitioner incomes are shrinking). then the fix started there too.

Now she will make twice as much money auditing hospitals. That's right - she joined the bean counters and will make more money than anyone in the operating room (except maybe the top nurses - the nurses union in the SF bay area is quite strong).

When you segment the market and shrink both the resource and risk pools you create room for the oligopolists to do their thing. the point of going interstate is to spread both pools. Practitioners LIKE having more than one payer - there is a chance they might get paid better by one than another. When you force a market to have few payers who have an incentive to drive up costs and where the consumer will not walk away from a higher priced product then you get what we have.

And people are leaving the field in these markets - like silicon valley, where car accident victims will now get lower quality care because the experienced trauma surgeons can't make a living (my sister has a mortgage on a 1200 square foot house and drives a 12 year old car and has no retirement savings - she used to live better 10 years ago).

Ezra Klein et al are free to spit out whatever talking points they want to rationalize the "reform" package we want and it is interesting to see the left defend it now that they own it, but the plain fact is that we have all made the situation worse. It has nothing to do with the cost of the providers - it has to do with the protection afforded the payers and the pharmas to get a deal done.

We have one option left - single payer.

A less radical and intrusive way to avoid a balkanized market and avoid the race to the bottom would be to get rid of the state regulators and substitute a national regulator. One set of rules, one marketplace. Everyone can market everywhere, subject to their ability to deliver the product and comply with the rules. (Which is not a trivial restriction: setting up provider networks isn't a simple task.)

255 simoom  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 10:49:26am

re: #74 Killgore Trout

Republican dog and pony show of lies to repeal healthcare reform (live feed)...
[Link: www.cnn.com...]

It's irritating hearing "ObamaCare" over and over and over on the floor of Congress. Is the PPACA or the "Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act" or H.R. 3590 or "Healthcare Reform" or even "the recently passed healthcare legislation" so difficult to say? Though I suppose that battle has been long lost with the major cable news channel reporters using the ObamaCare euphemism for some time now, and with even NPR using it sporadically, lately...

On a related note, besides mentioning the CBO scoring and some of the more popular provisions, the Dems should definitely bring up, in their floor speeches, the recent PPACA-related small business healthcare data that's been reported:

[Link: blogs.forbes.com...]

The major health insurance companies around the country are reporting a significant increase in small businesses offering health care benefits to their employees.

Why?

Because the tax cut created in the new health care reform law providing small businesses with an incentive to give health benefits to employees is working.


[Link: www.latimes.com...]

"We certainly did not expect to see this in this economy," said Gary Claxton, who oversees an annual survey of employer health plans for the nonprofit Kaiser Family Foundation. "It's surprising."

...

In the six months after the law was signed in March, UnitedHealth Group Inc., the country's largest insurer, added 75,000 new customers who work for companies with fewer than 50 employees. The Minnesota company called the increase notable but declined to reveal further details.

Coventry Health Care Inc., an insurer in Maryland that focuses on small businesses, signed contracts to cover 115,000 new workers in the first nine months of this year, an 8% jump.

In California, Warner Pacific Insurance Services in Westlake Village, a major servicer of insurance brokers, has seen business grow more than 10% this year, a company executive said.

And Blue Cross Blue Shield of Kansas City, the largest insurer in the Kansas City, Mo., area, is reporting a 58% jump in the number of small businesses buying insurance since April, the first full month after the legislation was signed into law.

The independent nonprofit insurer has been particularly aggressive in marketing the new tax credit, which can mean a discount of as much as 35% for very small companies with low payrolls.

"One of the biggest problems in the small-group market is affordability," said Ron Rowe, who oversees small-group sales for the insurer. "We looked at the tax credit and said, 'This is perfect.'"

Rowe said that 38% of the businesses it is signing up had not offered health benefits before.

256 webevintage  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 10:50:06am

re: #252 Charles

Breitbart is still at it on Twitter... throwing around 'reverse racism' accusations like a lunatic.

Doesn't he sleep?
Maybe he is a zombie....

257 KingKenrod  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 10:50:16am

re: #246 garhighway

hypothetical:

State A requires that annual and lifetime policy limits have to be at least certain amounts, to be sure that the coverage is adequate. State B allows insufficient limits and further permits the policy to be marketed in a way that allows the carrier to avoid obvious disclosure of those inadequate limits.

One could say that state A has a regulation that "drives up the cost of coverage". That statement would be accurate. But would you really want to encourage carriers to domicile in State B so they could sell the crapola deceptive policy? Would that be, in the grand scheme of things, a good idea?

I don't understand this. NY would not allow an out of state insurer to sell a substandard policy in NY even if a federal regulation said the out of state insurer could legally sell there. The only way another state could sell in NY while ignoring NY regulations would be if a federal law allows them to do so, and at that point ALL state insurance regulations would be moot and we would have a single federal standard.

258 garhighway  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 10:53:02am

re: #257 KingKenrod

I don't understand this. NY would not allow an out of state insurer to sell a substandard policy in NY even if a federal regulation said the out of state insurer could legally sell there. The only way another state could sell in NY while ignoring NY regulations would be if a federal law allows them to do so, and at that point ALL state insurance regulations would be moot and we would have a single federal standard.

The GOP wants to allow out of state carriers to be allowed to market nationwide so long as they comply with their home state regulator. Which would take the NY regulator out of the picture for the non-NY carrier. (As it is now, the non-NY carrier can sell in NY if they comply with NY rules and regs.)

259 sizzleRI  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 10:53:46am

re: #257 KingKenrod

I don't understand this. NY would not allow an out of state insurer to sell a substandard policy in NY even if a federal regulation said the out of state insurer could legally sell there. The only way another state could sell in NY while ignoring NY regulations would be if a federal law allows them to do so, and at that point ALL state insurance regulations would be moot and we would have a single federal standard.

Not true. The federal regulation allowing the out of state insurer to legally sell there would almost certainly preempt any NY regulation.

260 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 10:54:07am

re: #253 Killgore Trout

Israeli Scientist To Saudi Arabia: Can We Have Our Vulture Back?

[Link: www.alexanderyakovlev.org...]

M.Frinovskij to I.Stalin, 20.07.1937:

On May 31 of this year at lake Ladoga a raven was killed, on which was found a ring with the number D-72291 with the word "Germany".

At the same time near the village Rusynya of Batetski district, Leningradskaya oblast, a kite brought down a crow, which had a ring with D-70398 also marked "Germany".

We must assume that the Germans are researching the wind directions with the help of the crows, in order to use them for purely diversionary and bacteriological purposes (arson of settlements, stacks of bread, etc.).

261 KingKenrod  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 10:56:36am

re: #255 simoom

It's irritating hearing "ObamaCare" over and over and over on the floor of Congress. Is the PPACA or the "Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act" or H.R. 3590 or "Healthcare Reform" or even "the recently passed healthcare legislation" so difficult to say? Though I suppose that battle has been long lost with the major cable news channel reporters using the ObamaCare euphemism for some time now, and with even NPR using it sporadically, lately...

On a related note, besides mentioning the CBO scoring and some of the more popular provisions, the Dems should definitely bring up, in their floor speeches, the recent PPACA-related small business healthcare data that's been reported:

[Link: blogs.forbes.com...]


[Link: www.latimes.com...]

You could say the same thing about "Bush tax cuts", which were just extended by an all-Democratic controlled government. Making issues about personalities to make them more emotional is the unfortunate standard.

262 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 10:58:45am

re: #254 garhighway

Agree - that would lower barriers to entry too.

Won't happen - many fail to realize that regulation often is put in place or simply distorted to benefit the regulated. we are well down that road, IMO, with medicine.

Cutting the Gordian Knot will be single payer. Ultimatey republicans will have to support it.

263 simoom  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:05:45am

re: #261 KingKenrod

You could say the same thing about "Bush tax cuts", which were just extended by an all-Democratic controlled government. Making issues about personalities to make them more emotional is the unfortunate standard.

I agree, but if we're stuck with these shorthands, I guess I'd prefer something with a similar construction to the "Bush Tax Cuts"... maybe the "Obama Healthcare Law".

BTW, as an amusing aside, here's the official name of H.R.2, the bill to repeal HCR:

[Link: thomas.loc.gov...]

Repealing the Job-Killing Health Care Law Act
264 garhighway  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:06:52am

re: #262 karmic_inquisitor

Agree - that would lower barriers to entry too.

Won't happen - many fail to realize that regulation often is put in place or simply distorted to benefit the regulated. we are well down that road, IMO, with medicine.

Cutting the Gordian Knot will be single payer. Ultimatey republicans will have to support it.

I hear you, but I think single payer will be politically impossible for a very long time. The politics of this are just a mess.

265 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:15:53am

re: #60 McSpiff

Wasn't it his cousin?

Pretty sure it was the grandmother. She 'remembers' seeing him born.

I suspect that who she remembers seeing born is a half-sibling of his, possible also called Barack. But Lord knows. She seems like a nice old lady, and I'm fairly sure (not being conspiracy-minded), that she did not intend to add fuel to this mess.

266 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:19:22am

re: #265 SanFranciscoZionist

Pretty sure it was the grandmother. She 'remembers' seeing him born.

I suspect that who she remembers seeing born is a half-sibling of his, possible also called Barack. But Lord knows. She seems like a nice old lady, and I'm fairly sure (not being conspiracy-minded), that she did not intend to add fuel to this mess.

Does she? Or is this based on a phone call in which she talked through some third person who did the translation, and thus there was a more likely than not case of a broken phone conversation?

267 Gus  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:20:48am

re: #259 sizzleRI

Not true. The federal regulation allowing the out of state insurer to legally sell there would almost certainly preempt any NY regulation.

Now imagine federal regulation and certain state pertaining to medical procedures such as abortion or sexual reassignment surgery.

Something like this would require a federal regulatory agency. This idea of removing state restrictions is much over-hyped though much like the malpractice insurance meme. Once people are allowed to buy across state line the insurance pool will spread as will the liability and costs to the insurer.

Eventually, it would spread these costs to all Americans regardless of the state they live in. People in rich states would see slightly lower health insurance costs while at the same time people in poor state would see higher insurance costs.

268 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:29:50am

re: #188 Sergey Romanov

I don't think there were visible claims of a "genocide" in Jenin, the term is "Jenin massacre".

What I find curious though is that the Holocaust did not seem to play any major political role in the run-up to the creation of Israel (the problem of refugees obviously played a practical role). It's not like the nations gathered and for moral reasons decided to award the Jews with the state because of the genocide, thereby coming up with the partition plan. There's no evidence they were so "sentimental". See [PDF]

However, for a variety of reasons, that has become the dominant narrative.

269 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:31:39am

re: #268 SanFranciscoZionist

However, for a variety of reasons, that has become the dominant narrative.

True.

270 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:34:52am

re: #253 Killgore Trout

Israeli Scientist To Saudi Arabia: Can We Have Our Vulture Back?

LOL. I don't know why that strikes me as hilarious, but it totally does.

271 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:36:54am

re: #266 Sergey Romanov

Does she? Or is this based on a phone call in which she talked through some third person who did the translation, and thus there was a more likely than not case of a broken phone conversation?

Also completely possible.

272 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 11:47:09am

re: #271 SanFranciscoZionist

Also completely possible.

Here's it:

[Link: www.salon.com...]

In that interview, Sarah Obama does in fact say at one point that she was there for her grandson's birth. But that was a mistake, a confusion in translation. As soon as a jubilant McRae began to press her for further details about her grandson being born in Kenya, the family realized the mistake and corrected him. And corrected him. And corrected him. (The audio is available for download here.)

I used to watch the birther arguments-counter-arguments pretty closely. Fascinating to observe a birth of such a CT.

273 Usually refered to as anyways  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 1:32:48pm

“We feel responsible for doing everything possible to protect these people”
Except in helping with the redaction of names, which I believe the US Govt declined.

274 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:15:16pm

re: #63 Obdicut

The transparency of their lies is like greasy gossamer.

nice


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