Must Read: Michele Bachmann’s Unrivaled Extremism

Why does the media give her a pass?
Politics • Views: 22,114

It’s been frustrating to watch the media suddenly falling all over themselves to proclaim Michele Bachmann (R-Mars) a “serious candidate,” because I’ve been keeping track of her sheer lunacy for years, and Bachmann is so extreme she makes even Rick Santorum look sane.

Michelle Goldberg has a very good piece in today’s Daily Beast on Bachmann’s religious fanaticism and lunatic fringe connections, that should be required reading for any journalist who promotes the “serious candidate” silliness: Michele Bachmann’s Unrivaled Extremism: Gay Rights to Religion.

Bachmann honed her view of the world after college, when she enrolled at Coburn Law School at Oral Roberts University, an “interdenominational, Bible-based, and Holy Spirit-led” school in Oklahoma. “My goal there was to learn the law both from a professional but also from a biblical worldview,” she said in an April speech.

At Coburn, Bachmann studied with John Eidsmoe, who she recently described as “one of the professors who had a great influence on me.” Bachmann served as his research assistant on the 1987 book Christianity and the Constitution, which argued that the United States was founded as a Christian theocracy, and that it should become one again. “The church and the state have separate spheres of authority, but both derive authority from God,” Eidsmoe wrote. “In that sense America, like [Old Testament] Israel, is a theocracy.”

Eidsmoe, who hung up the phone when asked for an interview, is a contentious figure. Last year, he withdrew from speaking at a Wisconsin Tea Party rally after the Associated Press raised questions about his history of addresses to white-supremacist groups. In 2010, speaking at a rally celebrating Alabama’s secession from the Union, he claimed that Jefferson Davis and John C. Calhoun understood the Constitution better than Abraham Lincoln.

Reading Eidsmoe, though, some of Bachmann’s most widely ridiculed statements begin to make sense. Earlier this year, for example, she was mocked for saying that the Founding Fathers “worked tirelessly” to end slavery. But in books by Eidsmoe and others who approach history from what they call a Christian worldview, this is a truism. Despite his defense of the Confederacy, Eidsmoe also argues that even those founders who owned slaves opposed the institution and wanted it to disappear, and that it was only Christian for them to protect their slaves until it did. “It might be very difficult for a freed slave to make a living in that economy; under such circumstances setting slaves free was both inhumane and irresponsible,” he wrote.

That’s just the tip of the iceberg of crazy that is Michele Bachmann; read the whole thing.

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197 comments

1 windsagio  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:29:01pm

I kinda think the MSM just wants the circus. She's like free ratings, and that's whats important, really.

2 darthstar  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:30:17pm

She's playing a new game right now - acting reasonable and holding back on the paranoid rhetoric...compared to people like Cain, Gingrich and Santorum, she sounds downright reasonable.

3 blueraven  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:30:38pm

I read that earlier. The woman is completely nuts. She called the police because two lesbian women were trying to talk to her in the ladies room once. Screaming she was being held against her will.

4 Kragar  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:33:08pm

See also

Michele Bachmann thinks the world is ending and the pope is the antichrist

Bachmann stands with Israel because she needs the Jews to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem so that Christ can return, rapture the Christians up to Heaven, convince the Jews to worship him during the Tribulations, and then rule over the Earth from Israel for 1,000 years. (This is what these people believe, very, very literally.)

But wait! Before all that happens the antichrist needs to show up and convince everyone he's the Messiah! But who could that end up being? Some people say Obama, but Bachmann's church fingered a different suspect.

Before Bachmann was a Tea Party-affiliated Ron Paul fan obsessed with "liberty," remember, she was a traditional religious right fanatic with a degree from Oral Roberts University, who got into politics through antiabortion activism and who became famous for a school board run during which she and her allies supported teaching creationism in government-funded charter schools. (She is a home-schooling activist, which made a school board run kind of weird, but she was outraged at the idea of state standards forcing her to teach her children about anything other than Austrian economics and eschatology.)

When Bachmann was running for Congress in 2006, her official website bio said she was a member of the Salem Evangelical Lutheran Church of Stillwater, which belongs to the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod. WELS is one of the very conservative "confessional" Lutheran denominations that maintains that the "antichrist" is the pope. You know, the leader of the Catholic Church? That pope. WELS confirms that they still "identify this 'Antichrist' with the Papacy," in case you're curious.

Bachmann has denied that her church believes this, but ... it is definitely one of the fundamental doctrines of her church, according to her Synod's doctrinal statements. I mean, if Bachmann doesn't believe it, there are some very nice mainline Lutheran denominations to choose from, though they might be a bit squishy on biblical literalism and hatred of homosexuals.

In 2008, as I'm sure you remember, Michele Bachmann repeatedly called Barack Obama "anti-American" because of his "mentor," the Rev. Jeremiah Wright. And here, via Dumb Bachmann, is Bachmann's good friend and minister Bradlee Dean calling the pope "that devil disguised as a minister of righteousness."

5 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:33:15pm

re: #3 blueraven

I read that earlier. The woman is completely nuts. She called the police because two lesbian women were trying to talk to her in the ladies room once. Screaming she was being held against her will.

Have YOU ever been held against your will in a bathroom by two lesbians?!?!?!?!? It ain't no picnic I tell ya!!

6 Lidane  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:34:16pm

re: #1 windsagio

I kinda think the MSM just wants the circus. She's like free ratings, and that's whats important, really.

Yeah, this. Caribou Barbie is old news and few take her seriously as anything other than tabloid fodder. There's a desperate need for a new Crazy Conservative Lady, and Bachmann fits the bill.

Bachmann's a completely bonkers, batshit raving lunatic. No doubt about that. But she's big news now because Palin 1.0 is a pathetic joke and there needs to be a 2.0 model, especially after Christine O'Donnell crashed and burned.

7 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:34:23pm

re: #5 Cannadian Club Akbar

That story is just perfectly emblematic. She's scared. She's really, really scared, all the time. And what she's scared of includes information.

8 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:34:37pm

Now I don't have to be off topic. Here is the question I asked in the last thread.

I'd like to ask if anyone knows about Bachmann and foster children.

Googling doesn't answer the question of "23" foster children and there is a suggestion that she has had 23 different children at different times; but that is not what she said on TV.

Needless to say, if she has 23 + 5 now, she can't be much of a mother for them while running for president. It would seem more like running an orphanage remotely.

Then there is the question of whether she is collecting between $400 and $1000 per month from the state for each child, depending on needs. For one or two that would be a legitimate expense, but with 23 it sounds more like a business.

9 albusteve  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:34:48pm

think of her as our historic first woman POTUS....
yowza!

10 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:34:52pm
“The church and the state have separate spheres of authority, but both derive authority from God,” Eidsmoe wrote. “In that sense America, like [Old Testament] Israel, is a theocracy.”

Wrong. The State derives it's authority from The People. How can a grown adult take that kind of nonsense seriously?

11 blueraven  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:35:14pm

re: #5 Cannadian Club Akbar

Sounds like a mainstream male fantasy to me.

/half

12 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:36:01pm

re: #11 blueraven

Sounds like a mainstream male fantasy to me.

/half

You can drop the sarc tag.:)

13 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:37:10pm

re: #10 Slumbering Behemoth

How can a grown adult take that kind of nonsense seriously?

Rhetorical question?

14 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:37:15pm

bbl

15 Lidane  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:37:28pm

re: #10 Slumbering Behemoth

Wrong. The State derives it's authority from The People. How can a grown adult take that kind of nonsense seriously?

Magical thinking. If you're sufficiently deluded and a fundamentalist whackjob, that kind of stuff makes sense.

16 blueraven  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:37:34pm

re: #12 Cannadian Club Akbar

You can drop the sarc tag.:)

Ha! Not being male, I didn't want to assume...too much.

17 darthstar  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:38:46pm

OT: any tech-heads here able to recommend a freeware/shareware SMTP server I can trust to download? One of my engineers needs one for testing email notifications, but IT is slower than the second coming in getting us a response, and I'd like to just set her up with a portable SMTP server she can configure and use and delete at her leisure. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

18 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:39:56pm

re: #8 Naso Tang

That's really not that unusual, if you're doing it over a period of years. If you're fostering, say, four kids at a time, and they matriculate out every four years, then you'll foster that many over a decade.

I agree it's a high number to foster, but even Michelle Bachmann's house would be preferable to a lot of group homes.

19 darthstar  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:40:25pm

re: #16 blueraven

Ha! Not being male, I didn't want to assume...too much.

It's what young boys ask Santa for when their moms are out of earshot.

20 blueraven  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:40:42pm

re: #8 Naso Tang

Now I don't have to be off topic. Here is the question I asked in the last thread.

I'd like to ask if anyone knows about Bachmann and foster children.

Googling doesn't answer the question of "23" foster children and there is a suggestion that she has had 23 different children at different times; but that is not what she said on TV.

Needless to say, if she has 23 + 5 now, she can't be much of a mother for them while running for president. It would seem more like running an orphanage remotely.

Then there is the question of whether she is collecting between $400 and $1000 per month from the state for each child, depending on needs. For one or two that would be a legitimate expense, but with 23 it sounds more like a business.

From the article

Bachmann often says she has "raised" 23 foster children. That may be a bit of a stretch. According to the Minnesota Department of Human Services, Bachmann's license, which she had for 7 1/2 years, allowed her to care for up to three children at a time. According to Kris Harvieux, a former senior social worker in the foster-care system in Bachmann's county, some placements were almost certainly short term. "Some of them you have for a week. Some of them you have for three years, some you have for six months," says Harvieux, who also served as a foster parent herself. "She makes it sound like she got them at birth and raised them to adulthood, but that's not true."
21 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:42:43pm

re: #20 blueraven

That makes sense to me. I'd agree saying 'raised' is plumping herself up; it's a very good deed on its own to open your kids to foster children.

Still, this is a bad place to attack her; fostering children is about the nicest thing I've heard about Bachmann.

22 Kragar  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:43:47pm

re: #8 Naso Tang

Now I don't have to be off topic. Here is the question I asked in the last thread.

I'd like to ask if anyone knows about Bachmann and foster children.

Googling doesn't answer the question of "23" foster children and there is a suggestion that she has had 23 different children at different times; but that is not what she said on TV.

Needless to say, if she has 23 + 5 now, she can't be much of a mother for them while running for president. It would seem more like running an orphanage remotely.

Then there is the question of whether she is collecting between $400 and $1000 per month from the state for each child, depending on needs. For one or two that would be a legitimate expense, but with 23 it sounds more like a business.

Phylis Schafly would ask "Do you want to be a politician, or do you want children? You can't do both."
/

23 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:43:57pm

re: #13 Naso Tang

Rhetorical question?

Indeed.

24 dragonfire1981  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:44:14pm

She didnt just drink the crazy juice, she chugged it down and passed out on the couch after.

25 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:45:12pm

re: #18 Obdicut

I agree it's a high number to foster, but even Michelle Bachmann's house would be preferable to a lot of group homes.

Sad but true.

27 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:45:53pm

re: #26 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Michele Bachmann to Glenn Beck: Obama has secret plan to end Medicare

Yes. Let's all try to distract from the open, real plan that the GOP has to end Medicare.

28 Lidane  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:46:14pm

re: #26 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Michele Bachmann to Glenn Beck: Obama has secret plan to end Medicare

LOL. I thought the GOP talking point was that ending Medicare was the moral thing to do.

29 Bill Nye: People Magazine 'Sexiest Man Alive'  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:46:37pm

re: #26 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cankles to Michelle Bachmann: So do most Republicans.

30 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:47:11pm

re: #8 Naso Tang

Now I don't have to be off topic. Here is the question I asked in the last thread.

I'd like to ask if anyone knows about Bachmann and foster children.

Googling doesn't answer the question of "23" foster children and there is a suggestion that she has had 23 different children at different times; but that is not what she said on TV.

Needless to say, if she has 23 + 5 now, she can't be much of a mother for them while running for president. It would seem more like running an orphanage remotely.

Then there is the question of whether she is collecting between $400 and $1000 per month from the state for each child, depending on needs. For one or two that would be a legitimate expense, but with 23 it sounds more like a business.

I think they must have been over a period of time.

31 darthstar  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:48:25pm

re: #21 Obdicut

That makes sense to me. I'd agree saying 'raised' is plumping herself up; it's a very good deed on its own to open your kids to foster children.

Still, this is a bad place to attack her; fostering children is about the nicest thing I've heard about Bachmann.

We had friends who actually raised about 16 foster kids...we knew them quite well. By the time we got into high school, they'd moved up to 23-25 kids living with them and most of the original 16 had gone on. They then built three new houses on their property (naming one house after my father, who was their family physician) and upped it to 51 kids...at that point it became a foster farm - runaways were common, the sheriff was always there, they got a lot of short-termers...and told some horror stories about the kids that they flat-out refused because they were too dangerous.

It was, in fact, a business at that point.

32 Bulworth  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:49:17pm

Most of our media seems to be infected with a kind of conservative political correctness, which is obligated to treat every idea and political person as being "serious", regardless of how dangerous, ignorant, and nutty.

33 Bulworth  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:52:55pm
Despite his defense of the Confederacy, Eidsmoe also argues that even those founders who owned slaves opposed the institution and wanted it to disappear

Naturally.

34 recusancy  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:54:27pm

re: #32 Bulworth

Most of our media seems to be infected with a kind of conservative political correctness, which is obligated to treat every idea and political person as being "serious", regardless of how dangerous, ignorant, and nutty.

Fear of being labeled the left-wing-elitist-coastal-antiamerican-lamestream media. Also, I think alot of reporters grew up during the "Reagan revolution" and are just naturally conservative individuals.

35 freetoken  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:55:04pm

re: #8 Naso Tang

In many cases being a foster parent is not a long term commitment to any single child. There are always children either in care of the legal system or other services who just need a temporary arrangement.

36 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:55:26pm

re: #8 Naso Tang

I read the article and it answers what I questioned, to a degree.

Bachmann often says she has "raised" 23 foster children. That may be a bit of a stretch. According to the Minnesota Department of Human Services, Bachmann's license, which she had for 7 1/2 years, allowed her to care for up to three children at a time. According to Kris Harvieux, a former senior social worker in the foster-care system in Bachmann's county, some placements were almost certainly short term. "Some of them you have for a week. Some of them you have for three years, some you have for six months," says Harvieux, who also served as a foster parent herself. "She makes it sound like she got them at birth and raised them to adulthood, but that's not true."

Seems to me that her self introduction as presidential candidate, and 23 foster children, was an outright lie by any normal literal understanding.

37 Kragar  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 1:58:12pm

Speaking of lies

Newt Gingrich: Media elites out to ‘destroy’ him

GOP presidential candidate Newt Gingrich this morning gave what might be his most fulsome explanation yet of why his staff walked out last week.

The former U.S. House speaker also ripped into ABC News, which on Tuesday reported of some questionable cash transfers between a Gingrich charity and one of his for-profit companies.

Gingrich declared the ABC report a “hit piece.”

“The elite media has correctly figured out that I am a direct threat to their Washington values, and their Washington power structure. And they’ve decided that since they can’t beat my message, they’ll just try to destroy the messenger,” Gingrich said.

38 recusancy  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:00:34pm
39 Bulworth  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:00:37pm
“The elite media has correctly figured out that I am a direct threat to their Washington values, and their Washington power structure. And they’ve decided that since they can’t beat my message, they’ll just try to destroy the messenger,” Gingrich said.

The elite media is pretty powerful to get Gingrich's staff to resign in mass. Is no one safe from their chicanery?!

Also, too: George Soros.

40 darthstar  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:01:11pm

re: #37 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Speaking of lies

Newt Gingrich: Media elites out to ‘destroy’ him

Pity parade...yeah, that'll win the presidency for you, Newt, you worthless bastard.

41 Bulworth  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:01:55pm

re: #40 darthstar

Pity parade...yeah, that'll win the presidency for you, Newt, you worthless bastard.


Poor Newty. Always the victim.

42 darthstar  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:01:57pm

re: #39 Bulworth

The elite media is pretty powerful to get Gingrich's staff to resign in mass. Is no one safe from their chicanery?!

Also, too: George Soros.

Newt's not the first person to get upset after he was voted off the island. But he will be the loudest.

43 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:01:58pm

re: #38 recusancy

Republicans are censoring Democratic constituent mailings.

They're scared.

They've gone too far, and they don't want people to know. That's their strategy now-- hide what they're doing. Claim that the Democrats are the ones really doing it.

It's kinda sad.

44 Kragar  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:02:11pm

re: #40 darthstar

Pity parade...yeah, that'll win the presidency for you, Newt, you worthless bastard.

Its not all a pity parade. He also makes sure to plug his books.

45 darthstar  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:02:35pm

re: #41 Bulworth

Poor Newty. Always the victim.

Even Sarah Palin's probably saying, "Shut the fuck up, Newt!" (though she'd never claim unfair treatment)

46 leftynyc  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:04:22pm

re: #9 albusteve

think of her as our historic first woman POTUS...
yowza!

I have - made me vomit in my mouth.

47 darthstar  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:05:09pm

re: #43 Obdicut

They're scared.

They've gone too far, and they don't want people to know. That's their strategy now-- hide what they're doing. Claim that the Democrats are the ones really doing it.

It's kinda sad.

Yeah they're scared...

Rep. Gerry Connolly (D-Va.), for example, was told his mailing wouldn’t be sent unless he changed the language to say the GOP plan would “change” or “could privatize portions” of Medicare. Rep. Ed Perlmutter (D-Colo.) ran into the same problem, except this time, the franking commission prohibited the use of the word “voucher.”


The GOP just wants people to blame the Democrats for their actions - if they let their constituents know it's the Republicans doing, that could hurt them at the polls.

48 albusteve  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:05:12pm

re: #40 darthstar

Pity parade...yeah, that'll win the presidency for you, Newt, you worthless bastard.

his only value as I see it is to elevate the discourse between candidates...but then I woke up...one huge problem is that these people don't really have to answer a direct question, and usually the questions are marshmellows...nobody's lunacy gets exposed on national TV

49 Bulworth  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:05:26pm

re: #38 recusancy

Republicans are censoring Democratic constituent mailings.


Bizarre. Has this ever been done before? It would surprise me if it had. But I'm sure our DC media will be OK with it. Hey look over there, Weiner's thingy...

50 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:05:29pm

re: #36 Naso Tang

I read the article and it answers what I questioned, to a degree.

Seems to me that her self introduction as presidential candidate, and 23 foster children, was an outright lie by any normal literal understanding.

I'd have to give her a pass on this one

One of my best friends has fostered several children, the shortest term 6 months and the longest 6 years, ages 5 through 14

All three, now young adults still call them "mom and dad" (they also call their adoptive parents that by the way)

Two of them told me they do that because it was my friends who took them in and nurtured them at a time when they were without "parents"

51 Kragar  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:05:33pm

Maybe someone just needs to tell Newt that he's a Jaguar when the US wants a Chevrolet?

52 freetoken  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:06:34pm

re: #43 Obdicut

They've gone too far...

Didn't seem like the candidates Monday night thought so. They were stumbling over themselves to see how they could position themselves to the right of Ron Paul.

53 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:07:05pm

re: #51 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Maybe someone just needs to tell Newt that he's a Jaguar when the US wants a Chevrolet?

Just what we need/ can afford now

A Corvair!
/

54 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:07:43pm

re: #52 freetoken

Didn't seem like the candidates Monday night thought so. They were stumbling over themselves to see how they could position themselves to the right of Ron Paul.

I think they figured that moderates and independents wouldn't bother to watch the debate.

55 Bulworth  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:07:54pm
Maybe someone just needs to tell Newt that he's a Jaguar when the US wants a Chevrolet?

It's true. We are unworthy of his candidacy.

56 darthstar  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:07:55pm

re: #48 albusteve

his only value as I see it is to elevate the discourse between candidates...but then I woke up...


That's refreshing...I don't think Newt has 'elevated the discourse' since 1994. He's always been a blowhard who wasn't afraid to say the most offensive shit he could get away with in order to scare people into supporting him. He's the prototype for today's teabagger...which has evolved into an incoherent stain on this country.

57 darthstar  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:08:47pm

re: #51 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Maybe someone just needs to tell Newt that he's a Jaguar when the US wants a Chevrolet?

He's a Pinto. Anytime someone bumps into him he blows up in flames.

58 darthstar  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:10:46pm

Santorum has skyrocketed into second place! (in his "home" state of PA) Hey Frothy...if you can't win your own state you're in deep shit.

59 albusteve  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:10:49pm

re: #56 darthstar

That's refreshing...I don't think Newt has 'elevated the discourse' since 1994. He's always been a blowhard who wasn't afraid to say the most offensive shit he could get away with in order to scare people into supporting him. He's the prototype for today's teabagger...which has evolved into an incoherent stain on this country.

I was referring to the debates...disagree or not, he's smarter then the rest put together....but in todays political climate, sheer brainpower means little

60 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:11:23pm

re: #57 darthstar
I thought the punch line was Newt calling ANYONE an elitist is
beyond the pale...Arrogant boob!

61 albusteve  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:12:53pm

re: #60 reloadingisnotahobby

I thought the punch line was Newt calling ANYONE an elitist is
beyond the pale...Arrogant boob!

poor Newt, dragging down Penn Blvd with his lawn chair and thermos

62 darthstar  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:13:56pm

re: #59 albusteve

I was referring to the debates...disagree or not, he's smarter then the rest put together...but in todays political climate, sheer brainpower means little

Again, I must disagree. He's often called one of the smartest Republicans - but that's only because of his 1994 Contract on America. He won the congress for the GOP with that bull-dog approach, and it took him a full three years to go from being a top dawg in the GOP to resigning his seat and leaving elected office altogether. He's spent the last decade hawking ghost-written books and sucking the tit of rich donors. To say he's smarter than the other candidates doesn't say much for the other candidates. He's a grifter, that's all.

63 freetoken  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:15:09pm

re: #54 Obdicut

As I pointed out earlier this morning, looking at the cable ratings numbers it's pretty clear CNN was going for the Fox audience, and after O'Reilly signed off CNN picked up quite a few people for the second hour of the "debate".

64 Fart Knocker  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:17:07pm

re: #53 sattv4u2

Just what we need/ can afford now

A Corvair!
/

A pilot in my first squadron was called Corvair by his peers. Unsafe at any speed. No it was not me.

65 freetoken  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:18:25pm

I wonder if Palin' ego can tolerate that she is no longer the darling mama of the political right?

66 Hawaii69  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:19:22pm

When I see candidates like Bachman and Palin, it makes me think of Greg Stillson, from Stephen Kings novel "The Dead Zone"....

67 Lidane  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:20:06pm

re: #65 freetoken

I wonder if Palin' ego can tolerate that she is no longer the darling mama of the political right?

If she throws her hat in the ring to run for POTUS, you'll know the answer.

68 recusancy  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:21:51pm

re: #63 freetoken

As I pointed out earlier this morning, looking at the cable ratings numbers it's pretty clear CNN was going for the Fox audience, and after O'Reilly signed off CNN picked up quite a few people for the second hour of the "debate".

I don't have stats to back myself up but I would guess that CNN's core audience (people who still watch tv) are older and more conservative. It's the reason for the softballs and trying their hardest not to offend the right. It's the reason the media as a whole are more conservative, probably. Once they figure out a way to make money that doesn't involve physical paper/magazine subscriptions or tv broadcasts they will come around. They're fighting for that shrinking pool of eyes who still consume old media. It's about the bottom line.

69 darthstar  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:24:22pm

re: #67 Lidane

If she throws her hat in the ring to run for POTUS, you'll know the answer.

Looking forward to that fight...

I've got 23 kids and I love Jesus!
I got a downs baby and I shoot wolves and love Jesus!

Yeah...that'll be fun to watch.

70 Lidane  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:24:24pm
71 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:25:26pm

re: #68 recusancy

They're fighting for that shrinking pool of eyes who still consume old media

Except that, for the most part, CNN, FOX, MS/NBC (et al) put the same things on their web sites and streaming video as whats on the Ole TV Screen!

72 Bulworth  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:25:43pm

re: #69 darthstar

Looking forward to that fight...

I've got 23 kids and I love Jesus!
I got a downs baby and I shoot wolves and love Jesus!

Yeah...that'll be fun to watch.

Does Bachmann own any guns? GOP candidates might soon have to show up for debates with the heads of game animals.

73 recusancy  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:26:30pm

re: #71 sattv4u2

They're fighting for that shrinking pool of eyes who still consume old media

Except that, for the most part, CNN, FOX, MS/NBC (et al) put the same things on their web sites and streaming video as whats on the Ole TV Screen!

Yup. They haven't figured it out yet.

74 Lidane  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:27:03pm

re: #72 Bulworth

Does Bachmann own any guns? GOP candidates might soon have to show up for debates with the heads of game animals.

If Bachmann can outdo Stormtrooper Palin and actually hit the broadside of a barn, she'd lock up the gun votes.

75 BongCrodny  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:27:45pm

re: #4 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

See also

Michele Bachmann thinks the world is ending and the pope is the antichrist


We've had a lot of Popes over the last 2,000 years. If whoever wears the Pope Hat is the Antichrist, it's sure taking them a hell of a long time to bring about the end of the world.

76 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:27:57pm

re: #50 sattv4u2

I'd have to give her a pass on this one

One of my best friends has fostered several children, the shortest term 6 months and the longest 6 years, ages 5 through 14

All three, now young adults still call them "mom and dad" (they also call their adoptive parents that by the way)

Two of them told me they do that because it was my friends who took them in and nurtured them at a time when they were without "parents"

I am not knocking foster parenting, although I have a daughter who works in placement indirectly and I know that some people do it for the money not the love, even while they provide a service for society.

However I find it disagreeable that Bachmann will stand in front of the nation and give the impression that she has 23 foster children under her care NOW, when it would have been so simple to add a few words and make that statement accurate.

77 recusancy  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:28:00pm

re: #71 sattv4u2

They're fighting for that shrinking pool of eyes who still consume old media

Except that, for the most part, CNN, FOX, MS/NBC (et al) put the same things on their web sites and streaming video as whats on the Ole TV Screen!

They aren't creating separate content for the web. They make it for tv/print first and then just throw it up on the web.

78 Kragar  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:28:33pm

re: #75 BongCrodny

We've had a lot of Popes over the last 2,000 years. If whoever wears the Pope Hat is the Antichrist, it's sure taking them a hell of a long time to bring about the end of the world.

Worst. End Times. Ever.

79 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:28:35pm

More GOP extremism:


Republican state representatives in North Carolina voted to override Democratic Gov. Bev Perdue's veto of the state budget Wednesday morning, ensuring that a provision to strip all federal and state money from Planned Parenthood will take effect on July 1. North Carolina is now the third state, after Indiana and Kansas, to defund the family planning provider because it also provides abortions.

Planned Parenthood of North Carolina (PPNC), which has nine clinics across the state, provides affordable birth control, preventative health care and family planning services to over 25,000 men and women. Without the $434,000 a year it usually receives in state and federal funds, Planned Parenthood says it will now have to axe its teen pregnancy prevention and adolescent parenting programs and force its low-income patients to pay out of pocket.

"The biggest impact is gonna be on the men and women we serve," said Melissa Reed, vice president of public policy for Planned Parenthood Health Systems. "There are 12- to 14-week waits for women to get into the health department for birth control or breast cancer screenings, but we can see patients the very same week. The health department relies on Planned Parenthood to fill that gap, and now we will be prohibited from serving as that essential safety net provider."

80 Bulworth  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:28:54pm
and I love Jesus!

Sigh. The next presidential litmus test. President Obama, do you love Jesus?

[cable teevee panel discussions]:

Interviewer: Pundit A, was President Obama solid enough on the "Do You Love Jesus" question?

Interviewer: Pundit B, do you think President Obama persuaded American evangelicals that he really does love Jesus?

81 freetoken  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:29:04pm

re: #70 Lidane

Along those lines:

Former Rep. Inglis to Launch Conservative Coalition to Address Climate Change

"What I hope to do is be a part of an effort that calls conservatives to return to conservatism and to turn away from the populist rejection of science," Inglis said. He conceded that he expects this message to take at least two election cycles to take root, given today's political climate.

No kidding, at least two election cycles.

82 darthstar  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:29:21pm

re: #72 Bulworth

Does Bachmann own any guns? GOP candidates might soon have to show up for debates with the heads of game animals.

Palin: Excuse the blood...I was just field dressing a moose....USA/JESUS!
Bachmann: Excuse the blood...I was just stopping a young doctor from accepting a job at a women's health clinic...USA/JESUS!
Romney: Hey, I'm still here!
Santorum: My kids don't like me.
Gingrich: Elites!

83 Kragar  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:30:28pm

re: #82 darthstar

Palin: Excuse the blood...I was just field dressing a moose...USA/JESUS!
Bachmann: Excuse the blood...I was just stopping a young doctor from accepting a job at a women's health clinic...USA/JESUS!
Romney: Hey, I'm still here!
Santorum: My kids don't like me.
Gingrich: Elites!

Paul: THE FED!

84 Lidane  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:30:55pm

re: #81 freetoken

Along those lines:

Former Rep. Inglis to Launch Conservative Coalition to Address Climate Change

No kidding, at least two election cycles.

Which of course means it will take at least four or five. He's being way optimistic if he thinks that all it will take is at least two election cycles.

85 Idle Drifter  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:30:57pm
A key moment in her political evolution, as for many of her generation, was the film series How Should We Then Live by the theologian Francis Schaeffer, who is widely credited for mobilizing evangelicals against abortion, an issue most had previously ignored. A Presbyterian minister, Schaeffer argued that our entire perception of reality depends on our worldview, and that only those with the right one can understand the true nature of things. Christianity, he argued, is "a whole system of truth, and this system is the only system that will stand up to all the questions that are presented to us as we face the reality of existence." Theories or assertions from outside this system—evolution, for example—can be dismissed as the product of mistaken premises.

That is a very dangerous world view. They can justify and dismiss anything. Sounds very familiar too.

86 albusteve  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:32:52pm

re: #74 Lidane

If Bachmann can outdo Stormtrooper Palin and actually hit the broadside of a barn, she'd lock up the gun votes.

she could hit it, if they tell how to get inside first

87 freetoken  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:33:01pm

re: #85 Idle Drifter

The presuppositional apologetics of Schaeffer and the like is as good an example of epistemic closure as one will find.

88 darthstar  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:33:15pm

re: #80 Bulworth

Sigh. The next presidential litmus test. President Obama, do you love Jesus?

Obama says anything short of an emphatic "yes", he's accused of hating America. If Obama does say "yes", the argument will be that Jesus wasn't even American.

89 Lidane  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:33:20pm

re: #70 Lidane

This should go over well:

Al Gore Praises Mitt Romney On Climate Change

And of course the Freepers react accordingly:

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

90 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:33:55pm

A Voice of reason coming from the Republican side of the Isle (He's toast).

Graham raps Boehner, GOP candidates on Libya, Afghanistan

WASHINGTON — Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham criticized his party's presidential candidates and congressional leaders for increasingly advocating an international isolationism that he said repudiates the legacies of Presidents Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush.

The South Carolina senator mocked seven GOP presidential candidates' discussion of foreign policy in Monday night's New Hampshire debate as "shallow" and full of "platitudes."

Ouch! That's going to leave a mark

91 Bulworth  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:34:45pm

re: #90 Bubblehead II
Yeah, Lindsey will probably be primaried.

92 Lidane  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:35:32pm

re: #90 Bubblehead II

Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham criticized his party's presidential candidates and congressional leaders for increasingly advocating an international isolationism that he said repudiates the legacies of Presidents Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush.

The South Carolina senator mocked seven GOP presidential candidates' discussion of foreign policy in Monday night's New Hampshire debate as "shallow" and full of "platitudes."

ZOMG! RINO!

93 Bulworth  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:35:41pm

re: #88 darthstar

Obama says anything short of an emphatic "yes", he's accused of hating America. If Obama does say "yes", the argument will be that Jesus wasn't even American.


The wingnuts will never take Yes for an answer on this question.

94 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:36:15pm

re: #90 Bubblehead II

A Voice of reason coming from the Republican side of the Isle (He's toast).

Graham raps Boehner, GOP candidates on Libya, Afghanistan

WASHINGTON — Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham criticized his party's presidential candidates and congressional leaders for increasingly advocating an international isolationism that he said repudiates the legacies of Presidents Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush.

The South Carolina senator mocked seven GOP presidential candidates' discussion of foreign policy in Monday night's New Hampshire debate as "shallow" and full of "platitudes."

Ouch! That's going to leave a mark

It's nice that somebody had the courage to speak up.

95 recusancy  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:36:39pm

re: #91 Bulworth

Yeah, Lindsey will probably be primaried.

I bet he get's primaried and loses. He'll then pull a Mehlman and finally come out and all of a sudden be for gay rights.

96 darthstar  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:37:07pm

re: #91 Bulworth

Yeah, Lindsey will probably be primaried.

He probably wants to be primaried. Long term friendships with McCain and Lieberman have probably sucked most of his will to stay in the public space out of him, and he just wants to retire quietly and go hang out with a "friend" whom he chooses to keep anonymous. I wish him well...once he's gone.

97 Stanghazi  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:39:33pm

re: #79 Obdicut

More GOP extremism:

9 clinics across a state. Whoop de doo.

Assholes.

98 darthstar  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:39:41pm

re: #95 recusancy

I bet he get's primaried and loses. He'll then pull a Mehlman and finally come out and all of a sudden be for gay rights.

He'd get far more respect if he did that BEFORE he got primaried and let the GOP primary him because he was gay. That would create a political whirlwind for the ages.

99 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:40:00pm

re: #94 Killgore Trout

It's nice that somebody had the courage to speak up.

It would be even nicer if more of them (Republican politicians) would step up to the plate and start addressing the insanity that has taken over the Party. Sadly, I don't see this happening in the near future.

100 recusancy  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:40:30pm

re: #98 darthstar

He'd get far more respect if he did that BEFORE he got primaried and let the GOP primary him because he was gay. That would create a political whirlwind for the ages.

He won't because he's comfortable and spineless.

101 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:40:48pm

re: #97 Stanley Sea

I totally got deja vu from your post. In my deja-vuness, someone misunderstands your comment as being 'no big deal' rather than the reverse.

102 SpaceJesus  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:41:36pm

“My goal there was to learn the law both from a professional but also from a biblical worldview,”


Yeah, that place was a joke, and shut down long ago. I wonder if that technically means she no longer has a JD.

103 Idle Drifter  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:41:53pm

re: #74 Lidane

Not my vote. I love marksmanship, high capacity magazines, and hunting wild game. I love my gay brother even more. There's now way in hell I'd stoop to voting for someone to protect my gun rights who has a history of saying homosexuals need to be cured.

104 recusancy  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:43:03pm

re: #103 Idle Drifter

Not my vote. I love marksmanship, high capacity magazines, and hunting wild game. I love my gay brother even more. There's now way in hell I'd stoop to voting for someone to protect my gun rights who has a history of saying homosexuals need to be cured.

Do you actually feel at all threatened by Obama and the Dems on your gun rights?

105 TedStriker  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:43:21pm

re: #4 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Wasn't 'mama winger' and her son (the one that was looking to be an Army chaplain, IIRC) members of the Wisconsin Synod?

106 freetoken  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:43:40pm

re: #94 Killgore Trout

Note that both he and Inglis are from SC. In the old days, down there the atavists were the Democrats and the modernists the Republicans. Graham will probably suffer the same fate as Inglis, as he discovers the good ol' boys have changed party and now have turned the (R) symbol into shorthand for "Dixie".

107 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:44:20pm

re: #103 Idle Drifter

re: #104 recusancy

Do you actually feel at all threatened by Obama and the Dems on your gun rights?

Where in #103 does it even hint at that?

108 recusancy  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:45:26pm

re: #107 sattv4u2

re: #104 recusancy

Where in #103 does it even hint at that?

It doesn't. My point being that he won't be giving anything up by not voting Republican.

109 makeitstop  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:45:45pm

re: #61 albusteve

poor Newt, dragging down Penn Blvd with his lawn chair and thermos

Is that a reference to 'The Jerk?'

One of my favorite movies.

110 darthstar  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:46:05pm

re: #109 makeitstop

Is that a reference to 'The Jerk?'

One of my favorite movies.

That's what I thought it was.

111 Stanghazi  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:46:11pm

re: #101 Obdicut

I totally got deja vu from your post. In my deja-vuness, someone misunderstands your comment as being 'no big deal' rather than the reverse.

As soon as I hit post I realized that.

I think it's ridiculous to attack 9 measly clinics. I was shocked when I read that's all they have.

(All synapses not firing at the moment, I hope that was better!!)

112 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:46:23pm

re: #110 darthstar

That's what I thought it was.

ditto

113 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:47:31pm

re: #103 Idle Drifter

I love marksmanship, high capacity magazines, and hunting wild game.

I have no problem with 1 and 3, but neither need number 2. Why do you love 2?

114 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:48:09pm

re: #113 Naso Tang

I have no problem with 1 and 3, but neither need number 2. Why do you love 2?

Fast elusive wild cows!!
//

115 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:49:17pm

Gah, Wisconsin Synod. Seriously out there. If she's in that group, she's probably as close to "normal" as that little tribe gets. I had to go to a funeral for a co-worker at one of their churches once. That was, unpleasant, to say the least.

My wife and her older sister both had very nasty run ins with a guy who got his patriarchy on there as well. No good memories there at all.

116 recusancy  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:49:30pm

re: #104 recusancy

Do you actually feel at all threatened by Obama and the Dems on your gun rights?

This wasn't meant to be a shot at you. (pardon the pun)

117 BongCrodny  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:49:40pm

re: #4 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

See also

Michele Bachmann thinks the world is ending and the pope is the antichrist

WELS is one of the very conservative "confessional" Lutheran denominations that maintains that the "antichrist" is the pope. You know, the leader of the Catholic Church? That pope. WELS confirms that they still "identify this 'Antichrist' with the Papacy," in case you're curious.


I think they're going in the wrong direction here.

If whoever wears the Pope Hat is the Antichrist, then it must stand to reason that the Pope hat itself is the Antichrist.

Those Lutherans can be so dumb somtimes.

118 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:50:02pm

re: #114 sattv4u2

Fast elusive wild cows!!
//

I was thinking perhaps it's hard to see where the hit is on the side of a barn, so the more the better.

119 Idle Drifter  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:51:00pm

re: #104 recusancy

Do you actually feel at all threatened by Obama and the Dems on your gun rights?

No.

120 darthstar  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:51:03pm

Okay...headed out...bbl.

121 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:51:42pm
122 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:53:06pm

re: #121 jaybird

Another Class of 94' alumn gone in 5, 4, 3, 2, ,,,,,,

123 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:53:14pm

re: #121 jaybird

Can you explain the actual problem you have with this post?

How is highlighting Bachmann's insanity a sign of having fallen far?

124 albusteve  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:53:42pm

re: #121 jaybird

another dead thread coward...why don't you take your post to the next thread, or is that too scary?

125 recusancy  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:53:45pm

re: #121 jaybird

LOL. You know who was on the front lines? The military. Nobody else.

126 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:54:10pm

re: #121 jaybird

Just a piece of advice to carry over into your personal life

Learn how to disagree without being disagreeable

127 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:54:14pm

re: #121 jaybird

Lame. Pathetic.

Anyway, this is kinda funny.

The Rev. Barry Lynn talks about the Ark Park

128 Fart Knocker  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:54:59pm

re: #121 jaybird

Dear Daddy, I hate you. Please ban me so I can go to the Island of Misfit toys and be welcomed as a hero.

Hugs and kisses,

jaybird

129 recusancy  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:55:38pm

re: #121 jaybird

You really thought you were fighting terrorism/jihad/whatever from your keyboard didn't you?

130 martinsmithy  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:55:40pm

In 2005 Michelle Bachmann pointed out that minimum wage laws destroyed laws and therefore should be abolished. I don't think they should be abolished entirely, but she is entirely right, economically speaking.

That's one thing she got right. Admittedly the scale is very heavily tilted to the "wrong" side.

131 recusancy  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:56:26pm

re: #130 martinsmithy

In 2005 Michelle Bachmann pointed out that minimum wage laws destroyed laws and therefore should be abolished. I don't think they should be abolished entirely, but she is entirely right, economically speaking.

That's one thing she got right. Admittedly the scale is very heavily tilted to the "wrong" side.

The minimum wage laws destroyed laws?

132 windsagio  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:56:49pm

re: #130 martinsmithy

... damn, I don't know whether to make fun of 'minimum wage laws destroyed laws' or to go after your admittedly terrible premise :P

I'll do both I guess ;)

133 garhighway  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:58:42pm

re: #131 recusancy

The minimum wage laws destroyed laws?

Hall and Oates sang about it: "It's a Law eater"!

134 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 2:59:11pm

re: #130 martinsmithy

In 2005 Michelle Bachmann pointed out that minimum wage laws destroyed laws and therefore should be abolished. I don't think they should be abolished entirely, but she is entirely right, economically speaking.

That's one thing she got right. Admittedly the scale is very heavily tilted to the "wrong" side.

According to you she is entirely right but you don't think she is entirely right. Have you any idea how inane that sounds, or is the six pack almost done already, economically speaking?

135 Idle Drifter  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:00:24pm

re: #113 Naso Tang

I have no problem with 1 and 3, but neither need number 2. Why do you love 2?

Practical Reasons:
With the right tools and clips it saves on reloading time and sore thumbs at the range.
I tend to use a lot of ammo at the range. 100 round minimum.
I under load magazines and it saves on their shooting life.

Other Reason:
It's fun.

136 windsagio  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:01:23pm

re: #135 Idle Drifter

see? Guns really are toys >>

137 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:02:21pm

re: #136 windsagio

no

138 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:03:16pm

re: #8 Naso Tang

Now I don't have to be off topic. Here is the question I asked in the last thread.

I'd like to ask if anyone knows about Bachmann and foster children.

Good question. Who in the world are these poor souls?

139 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:03:17pm

re: #135 Idle Drifter

Practical Reasons:
With the right tools and clips it saves on reloading time and sore thumbs at the range.
I tend to use a lot of ammo at the range. 100 round minimum.
I under load magazines and it saves on their shooting life.

Other Reason:
It's fun.

Sounds like silly reasons to allow the crazies to buy them. "It's fun for me!"

140 makeitstop  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:04:07pm

re: #130 martinsmithy

In 2005 Michelle Bachmann pointed out that minimum wage laws destroyed laws and therefore should be abolished. I don't think they should be abolished entirely, but she is entirely right, economically speaking.

That's one thing she got right. Admittedly the scale is very heavily tilted to the "wrong" side.

Yeah, I saw a quote from her that if the minimum wage was abolished, we'd wipe out unemployment.

It's a great idea, except for that 'trying to pay your rent or feed your family while earning $2.25 an hour' part.

141 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:04:17pm

re: #138 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Good question. Who in the world are these poor souls?

?? Are you being funny or just obtuse?

142 Martinsmithy  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:05:47pm

Oops! It should read "minimum wage laws destroy JOBS."

As for the underlying premise:

[Link: www.gppf.org...]

[Link: www.heritage.org...]

[Link: www.cato.org...]

[Link: www.economicsonlinetutor.com...]

143 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:05:55pm

re: #140 makeitstop

Yeah, I saw a quote from her that if the minimum wage was abolished, we'd wipe out unemployment.

Really? Add that to list of idiocies she has spouted.

144 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:07:20pm

re: #141 Naso Tang

?? Are you being funny or just obtuse?

Neither, really - just wondering what children ever had the terrible misfortune to be placed in that household? And do they give interviews.

145 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:08:31pm

re: #142 Martinsmithy

Uh, quoting Cato and Heritage isn't really supporting your argument any. They don't have credibility.

The first link is also a 'free-market' think tank. The last is font-screwy.

The immediate effect of a minimum-wage policy certainly destroys jobs-- the jobs under the minimum wage. These aren't jobs that pay wages that one can live on.

The long-term effect can be to raise jobs, by increasing domestic purchasing power and increasing the velocity of money.

146 TedStriker  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:09:28pm

re: #75 BongCrodny

We've had a lot of Popes over the last 2,000 years. If whoever wears the Pope Hat is the Antichrist, it's sure taking them a hell of a long time to bring about the end of the world.

Not to quibble, but I'm assuming that they mean the Pope is AN anti-Christ, not necessarily THE Anti-Christ...who knows?

re: #129 recusancy

You really thought you were fighting terrorism/jihad/whatever from your keyboard didn't you?

They're are apparently a bonafide, card-carrying member of the 101st Chairborne...

147 Idle Drifter  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:09:57pm

re: #139 Naso Tang

Sounds like silly reasons to allow the crazies to buy them. "It's fun for me!"

Look there's no way I can argue for high capacity magazines and not look crazy to people who have never met me in person. So I'm not going to. So I'll leave you with this:

148 Martinsmithy  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:10:23pm

re: #140 makeitstop

I don't recommend abolishing minimum wage laws entirely. There is a bottom level at which a wage paid is unconscionable. What that level is, I'll let someone else figure out.

But it is a well-known economic fact that a higher minimum wage means fewer overall jobs. The attempts by some left-wing economists to debunk this basic economic tenet are feeble, at best.

149 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:10:34pm

re: #142 Martinsmithy

Oops! It should read "minimum wage laws destroy JOBS."

Taxes on millionaires destroy jobs too./

Just imagine how many jobs would be created if the rich could hire two gardeners and maids for the price of one. All it takes is a little extra money in their pockets and we can all be gardeners and maids.

You drink too much tea.

150 Martinsmithy  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:11:55pm

re: #145 Obdicut

I'm sorry that you feel you must automatically denounce or ignore anything that comes out of the Cato Institute or the Heritage Foundation, or any other "free market think tank." Perhaps instead of "shooting the messenger" you should study the arguments and see if you can find rebuttals.

151 Idle Drifter  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:12:47pm

re: #136 windsagio

see? Guns really are toys >>

I'd have the same fun with a formula one racer but that doesn't it a hot wheels racer.

152 wrenchwench  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:13:04pm

re: #150 Martinsmithy

I'm sorry that you feel you must automatically denounce or ignore anything that comes out of the Cato Institute or the Heritage Foundation, or any other "free market think tank." Perhaps instead of "shooting the messenger" you should study the arguments and see if you can find rebuttals.

IMHO, that was a rebuttal.

153 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:13:14pm

re: #147 Idle Drifter

Look there's no way I can argue for high capacity magazines and not look crazy to people who have never met me in person. So I'm not going to. So I'll leave you with this:

[Video]

I don't care about you having them and I'll take your word that you are not crazy. Perhaps they could be sold with conditions.

I just don't see the sense in allowing anyone to arm themselves for war in our streets. You read the news don't you?

154 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:13:18pm

re: #150 Martinsmithy

I'm sorry that you feel you must automatically denounce or ignore anything that comes out of the Cato Institute or the Heritage Foundation, or any other "free market think tank." Perhaps instead of "shooting the messenger" you should study the arguments and see if you can find rebuttals.

Didja just ignore the rebuttal I wrote?

And do you get the concept of "Cato and Heritage regularly distort and use terrible, terrible arguments, therefore they lack credibility"? It's not 'automatic' denouncement, it's calling them shitty sources based on their past performance.

I don't accept stuff sourced from the Worker's Vangaurd, either.

155 Idle Drifter  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:13:21pm

re: #151 Idle Drifter

I'd have the same fun with a formula one racer but that doesn't make it a hot wheels racer.

156 makeitstop  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:14:45pm

re: #143 Naso Tang

Really? Add that to list of idiocies she has spouted.

Yeah, here's the full quote:

"If we took away the minimum wage - if it conceivably was gone - we could potentially virtually wipe out unemployment completely because we would be able to offer jobs at whatever level."

ABL at Balloon Juice has a top ten quotes post up. It's just brimming with stupid.

157 Martinsmithy  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:16:10pm

re: #152 wrenchwench

Saying the Cato Institute has no credibility is not a credible argument. We're not talking about neo-Nazis or the American Communist Party here.

158 recusancy  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:16:31pm

re: #150 Martinsmithy

I'm sorry that you feel you must automatically denounce or ignore anything that comes out of the Cato Institute or the Heritage Foundation, or any other "free market think tank." Perhaps instead of "shooting the messenger" you should study the arguments and see if you can find rebuttals.

Actual evidence says otherwise. There's theoretical truth to it but when played out in real life the effects are negligable.

159 Martinsmithy  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:17:31pm

re: #156 makeitstop

Yeah, here's the full quote:


ABL at Balloon Juice has a top ten quotes post up. It's just brimming with stupid.

The point is that this particular statement of Michelle Bachmann is more or less true. It would be unconscionable to pay someone $2 per hour to work, but the statement is true.

160 makeitstop  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:17:56pm

re: #148 Martinsmithy

I don't recommend abolishing minimum wage laws entirely. There is a bottom level at which a wage paid is unconscionable. What that level is, I'll let someone else figure out.

But it is a well-known economic fact that a higher minimum wage means fewer overall jobs. The attempts by some left-wing economists to debunk this basic economic tenet are feeble, at best.

Let's be real here. If Bachmann and her ilk had their way, the minimum wage would be far below what anyone would consider 'conscionable.'

She wants to abolish it.

Sounds good on paper, but in reality it would just create more poor people. Not that Bachmann ever has to worry about that - she'll be gorging at the public trough for the rest of her life.

161 recusancy  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:17:59pm

re: #150 Martinsmithy

I'm sorry that you feel you must automatically denounce or ignore anything that comes out of the Cato Institute or the Heritage Foundation, or any other "free market think tank." Perhaps instead of "shooting the messenger" you should study the arguments and see if you can find rebuttals.

Also [Link: krugman.blogs.nytimes.com...]

162 wrenchwench  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:18:43pm

re: #159 Martinsmithy

The point is that this particular statement of Michelle Bachmann is more or less true. It would be unconscionable to pay someone $2 per hour to work, but the statement is true.

Typical libertarian attitude.

163 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:18:57pm

re: #144 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Neither, really - just wondering what children ever had the terrible misfortune to be placed in that household? And do they give interviews.

I have no reason to think that her politics have damaged their lives, and at this time I'm not going to say what I think about children raised in a religious fanatic's environment, although I might concede that it could be better than where they came from.

Religion can be reevaluated easier than bruises or worse.

164 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:19:00pm

re: #157 Martinsmithy

Saying the Cato Institute has no credibility is not a credible argument. We're not talking about neo-Nazis or the American Communist Party here.

They don't have credibility on economic issues. This is not something decided by some Institute of Higher Credibility. In my judgement, they lack credibility. You disagree. That's fine. But if you want to convince me-- and the other people who find Cato's relentless AGW denial and other stupidities a turnoff-- you should find someone else to source your arguments from.

If you don't actually care about convincing me, or others like me, then don't bother.

165 Martinsmithy  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:19:12pm

re: #158 recusancy

The Card/Krueger study admittedly has its influential defenders. I think the proponderance of opinion among economists is that it is a flawed study.

166 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:19:17pm

re: #159 Martinsmithy

The point is that this particular statement of Michelle Bachmann is more or less true. It would be unconscionable to pay someone $2 per hour to work, but the statement is true.

How long would it be true for?

167 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:19:50pm

re: #165 Martinsmithy

The Card/Krueger study admittedly has its influential defenders. I think the proponderance of opinion among economists is that it is a flawed study.

Have you done a metastudy of the opinions of economists on that? Or are you more obtaining that thought rectally?

168 wrenchwench  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:19:58pm

re: #157 Martinsmithy

Saying the Cato Institute has no credibility is not a credible argument. We're not talking about neo-Nazis or the American Communist Party here.

That's less than half the comment that you were supposedly responding to.

169 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:21:05pm

re: #168 wrenchwench

That's less than half the comment that you were supposedly responding to.

I always find it funny when people demand I write an actual rebuttal when responding to a post in which I've written an actual rebuttal.

170 Fart Knocker  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:21:23pm

re: #161 recusancy

Also [Link: krugman.blogs.nytimes.com...]

You mean former Enron advisor Paul Krugman?!?!?!
//

171 recusancy  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:21:43pm

re: #165 Martinsmithy

The Card/Krueger study admittedly has its influential defenders. I think the proponderance of opinion among economists is that it is a flawed study.

Has there every been a study to show otherwise? Economics is not a science. Controls and experiments are very hard if not impossible.

172 makeitstop  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:23:10pm

re: #159 Martinsmithy

The point is that this particular statement of Michelle Bachmann is more or less true. It would be unconscionable to pay someone $2 per hour to work, but the statement is true.

I put that statement in the same box as the argument that cutting taxes brings in more revenue.

The box has a label on it, and the label reads 'bullshit.'

173 recusancy  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:23:11pm

re: #170 rwdflynavy

You mean former Enron advisor Paul Krugman?!?!?!
//

Wow, anything to not have to listen to the arguments eh?

174 Fart Knocker  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:23:35pm

re: #173 recusancy

Wow, anything to not have to listen to the arguments eh?


Did you miss the sarc tags?

175 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:23:39pm

re: #159 Martinsmithy

The point is that this particular statement of Michelle Bachmann is more or less true. It would be unconscionable to pay someone $2 per hour to work, but the statement is true.

No it's not true, but clearly you can't see why not, which is why you think as you do.

176 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:24:33pm

re: #170 rwdflynavy

Krugman was not in any material way related to Enron's criminal activities. He basically gave them lectures. I doubt they listened.

Not really relevant.

177 recusancy  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:24:42pm

re: #170 rwdflynavy

You mean former Enron advisor Paul Krugman?!?!?!
//

He spent 4 days with them in '99. It's idiotic to dismiss him because of that.

178 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:24:43pm

re: #174 rwdflynavy

Ah.

179 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:25:05pm

re: #174 rwdflynavy

Sorry, dude, I did indeed miss the tags.

180 Fart Knocker  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:25:53pm

re: #177 recusancy

He spent 4 days with them in '99. It's idiotic to dismiss him because of that.

I agree

181 recusancy  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:26:01pm

re: #174 rwdflynavy

Did you miss the sarc tags?

Mea culpa. I noticed them but I thought they were a sarc towards krugman, not your statement.

182 Fart Knocker  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:27:12pm

re: #181 recusancy

Mea culpa. I noticed them but I thought they were a sarc towards krugman, not your statement.

Typical Tea Partier response anytime someone quotes Krugman: "But, but he used to work for Enron!!!!"

183 Idle Drifter  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:28:21pm

re: #153 Naso Tang

I don't care about you having them and I'll take your word that you are not crazy. Perhaps they could be sold with conditions.

I just don't see the sense in allowing anyone to arm themselves for war in our streets. You read the news don't you?

It's a delicate balancing act and after consuming the mountain of news reports concerning crime both sides of the debate can be logical conclusions. I do quake at the idea of a few Michele Bachmann supporters going nuts after election day with any number and types of devices that could wreck havoc on the general populace. However, I'm not about to be ruled by fear.

184 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:29:54pm

re: #164 Obdicut

I have no reason to think that her politics have damaged their lives, and at this time I'm not going to say what I think about children raised in a religious fanatic's environment, although I might concede that it could be better than where they came from.

Religion can be reevaluated easier than bruises or worse.

Maybe, maybe not. Better lives are not guaranteed, especially as it concerns fosters. Rightwing bigot parents can be the most abusive of all.

185 makeitstop  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:32:35pm

re: #184 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Maybe, maybe not. Better lives are not guaranteed, especially as it concerns fosters. Rightwing bigot parents can be the most abusive of all.

I read a comment the other night (I forget where) that said (paraphrasing) 'I don't know if any of her foster kids are gay, but I do know that she's capable of instilling so much self-loathing in them that they'll never find their way out of the closet.'

If I were a total cynic, I'd be wondering if she makes her foster kids sign non-disclosure agreements. Good thing I'm not a total cynic.
/

186 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:32:44pm

re: #184 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Um, that's not my 164. What the hey?

187 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:36:43pm

re: #186 Obdicut

Yep. Operator error, sorry.

188 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:38:32pm

re: #183 Idle Drifter

However, I'm not about to be ruled by fear.

Those who are adamant about gun rights of all types tend to be ruled by fear, but of their government. You strike me as simply concerned about your personal convenience, and fun.

189 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:39:16pm

re: #185 makeitstop

I read a comment the other night (I forget where) that said (paraphrasing) 'I don't know if any of her foster kids are gay, but I do know that she's capable of instilling so much self-loathing in them that they'll never find their way out of the closet.'

If I were a total cynic, I'd be wondering if she makes her foster kids sign non-disclosure agreements. Good thing I'm not a total cynic.
/

I would not be surprised at any of their kids going outside the narrow confines of conservative Christian lifestyle choice. But my exp tells me, at least 2 of them will come barreling out of the closet. The more things like that are suppressed, sometimes the more dramatic the rebellion. They will need a safe place to land.

190 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:40:11pm

re: #187 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yep. Operator error, sorry.

Might want to ask Charles to delete it as it does make it appear that Obdicut said that.

191 Varek Raith  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:40:29pm

re: #188 Naso Tang

Those who are adamant about gun rights of all types tend to be ruled by fear, but of their government. You strike me as simply concerned about your personal convenience, and fun.

If the Feds want my guns they're gonna have to pry them off the hull of my super star destroyer.
/

192 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:41:52pm

re: #189 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I would not be surprised at any of their kids going outside the narrow confines of conservative Christian lifestyle choice. But my exp tells me, at least 2 of them will come barreling out of the closet. The more things like that are suppressed, sometimes the more dramatic the rebellion. They will need a safe place to land.

Yes, in her case it could well be considered an abusive environment if any were gay and out of 23 a few are bound to be. I hadn't thought of that.

193 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 3:48:18pm

re: #192 Naso Tang

Yes, in her case it could well be considered an abusive environment if any were gay and out of 23 a few are bound to be. I hadn't thought of that.

Yeah because it's not just gay, either. Anything that deviates gets punished. Who knows how it works/ed in their house but it's worth it to ask any of the 23 what their experiences were, since she's always so quick to trot them out as props to prove what a superior parent she supposedly is.

194 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 5:23:43pm

re: #69 darthstar

Looking forward to that fight...

I've got 23 kids and I love Jesus!
I got a downs baby and I shoot wolves and love Jesus!

Yeah...that'll be fun to watch.

Back some time ago, Gavin Newsom and Matt Gonzalez, running against one another for mayor of SF, engaged in what I liked to describe as The Great Lower-Middle-Class-Off of 2003.

"Yeah, well, I had an after-school job."

"Yeah? Well, my mom worked two jobs."

"Dude, I had a scholarship to my high school!"

It was entertaining.

This would be better.

195 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 5:29:39pm

re: #144 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Neither, really - just wondering what children ever had the terrible misfortune to be placed in that household? And do they give interviews.

You know, she might be an OK foster mom. Many of us were raised by batshit crazy people and still love them, and were treated fine as children.

OK, I don't believe that. I think she's an uptight freak who would love you SOOO much as long as you never gave her a moment's trouble or challenged her in any way.

But perhaps I'm biased by her craziness.

196 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 5:32:18pm

re: #148 Martinsmithy

I don't recommend abolishing minimum wage laws entirely. There is a bottom level at which a wage paid is unconscionable. What that level is, I'll let someone else figure out.

But it is a well-known economic fact that a higher minimum wage means fewer overall jobs. The attempts by some left-wing economists to debunk this basic economic tenet are feeble, at best.

If a minimum wage is below what is needed for a worker to eat, sleep under a roof, and have health coverage, the question becomes what use these overall jobs are.

197 aagcobb  Wed, Jun 15, 2011 5:56:42pm

re: #196 SanFranciscoZionist

If a minimum wage is below what is needed for a worker to eat, sleep under a roof, and have health coverage, the question becomes what use these overall jobs are.

The problem with this economy is low demand because unemployment is high and despite record profits, wages aren't going up much. Eliminating the minimum wage might produce some more bad paying jobs, but it would also put more downward pressure on wages, reducing the purchasing power of consumers even more. Making ordinary Americans even poorer doesn't sound like a good idea to me.


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