Jump to bottom

501 comments
1 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 10:18:29pm

Lucy Maude Montgomery called a sense of humor "an understanding of the fitness of things."

2 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 10:24:20pm

Beware of the Child-Collecting Industrial Complex. They may be looking out for them for reasons quite different from what is stated.

Prosecutors: Coach went from mentor to predator

Just as his boss, Joe Pa, had stood for class and dignity, Sandusky represented heart. He raised millions for The Second Mile, the charity he founded for at-risk kids. In 1990, President George H.W. Bush had called it "a shining example."

The coach and his wife had adopted six children -- three after taking them in through foster care. He dedicated most of his off-season to running camps and helping The Second Mile kids, many from single-parent homes and in need of another adult in their lives.

Famous
last
words
.

To this day, those abused are still told they are lucky and ought to be grateful for their treatment, I can gua-ron-tee it.

3 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 10:36:40pm

re: #2 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

seen this? [Link: www.reuters.com...]

I wonder how many more institutions are covering up this stuff

4 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 10:37:13pm
(Reuters) - The president of The Citadel said on Tuesday he was "profoundly sorry" the South Carolina military college failed to tell police about child sexual abuse allegations against a man who had served as a summer camp counselor at the institution.
5 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 10:44:21pm

Goodnight, all.

6 Kragar  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 10:51:26pm

Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski stands by fired Penn Sate coach Joe Paterno

Krzyzewski said Paterno is a “great man” who may have been a victim of a closed-mouth generation, citing that as a possible explanation for the coach not doing more about the child sex abuse allegations against Penn State’s former defensive coordinator, Jerry Sandusky.

“ I just feel badly for (Paterno),” Krzyzewski said Monday. “Whatever he is responsible for, it will come out, and hopefully it will come out from him. I think one thing you have to understand is that Coach Paterno is 84 years old. I’m not saying that for an excuse. The cultures that he’s been involved in, both football-wise and socially, there have been immense changes. And how social issues are handled in those generations are quite different, quite different. And I think that has something to do with the situation. ”

Fucking asshole. He sheltered a child molester so he could play a game for money. Any "greatness" this man could claim was built on and buried under shit.

7 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 10:52:31pm

re: #3 WindUpBird

seen this? [Link: www.reuters.com...]

I wonder how many more institutions are covering up this stuff

A LOT. The abuse and violence-enforced silence is probably off the charts at military and church institutions.

Yay, traditional family values and all their superior, child-battering morality 9_9

8 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 10:53:18pm

re: #6 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski stands by fired Penn Sate coach Joe Paterno

Fucking asshole. He sheltered a child molester so he could play a game for money. Any "greatness" this man could claim was built on and buried under shit.

Anybody wanna tell him he's got something brown there at the end of his nose?

9 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 10:53:49pm

re: #6 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski stands by fired Penn Sate coach Joe Paterno

Fucking asshole. He sheltered a child molester so he could play a game for money. Any "greatness" this man could claim was built on and buried under shit.

Nooo that's wronnnngg!

Poor JoPa is the VICTIM in all this!!!

Poor him!

10 Kragar  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 10:55:40pm

re: #9 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Child molesters and their enablers need to meet their ends alone and in terror, wishing they could scream.

11 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 10:56:04pm

re: #9 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Don't laugh, I've heard that same line of bullshit thinking more than once since last week. Morons arguing that the school's "throwing JoePa under the bus," that he's being used as a scapegoat.

12 boxhead  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 11:29:41pm

In my opinion, there can never be an excuse for not calling the cops when a child is being raped. Never.... I am so disgusted by the multitudes of enablers. Nothing positive was done at Penn State that outweighs the abuse allowed to continue.

13 boxhead  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 11:44:53pm

re: #6 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

what a sad statement by, who I always thought of as a great coach. His comment, "Paterno is a “great man” who may have been a victim of a closed-mouth generation" is stupid..... no excuse

14 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 11:51:50pm

re: #13 boxhead

what a sad statement by, who I always thought of as a great coach. His comment, "Paterno is a “great man” who may have been a victim of a closed-mouth generation" is stupid... no excuse

I know.

It's like, no, the *actual* victims of a closed-mouth generation are the adults who were abused under such conditions as children.

Which is a hell of a lot of adults. But like Herman Cain's enablers, Paterno is somehow the victim even though he wasn't the one buggered, groped, harassed, mistreated by men drunk with power.

15 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Nov 14, 2011 11:56:13pm

Wait ... what?

If you're searching for a reason not to have sex with animals, add this to the list: It could give you penis cancer, according to a new study published in the Journal of Sexual Medicine.

Okay A.) Disgusting, and B.) Really disgusting and C.) I had no idea there were enough of these freaks to even perform such a study.

16 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 12:13:24am

morning all!

17 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 12:20:44am

re: #15 goddamnedfrank

Wait ... what?

Okay A.) Disgusting, and B.) Really disgusting and C.) I had no idea there were enough of these freaks to even perform such a study.

D) That there was someone somewhere who decided this study needed to be funded.

18 Kragar  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 12:22:47am

re: #14 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I know.

It's like, no, the *actual* victims of a closed-mouth generation are the adults who were abused under such conditions as children.

Which is a hell of a lot of adults. But like Herman Cain's enablers, Paterno is somehow the victim even though he wasn't the one buggered, groped, harassed, mistreated by men drunk with power.

What Paterno did was worse in my opinion. The child molester was a sick bastard, but he can claim psychological illness, daddy didn't hug him enough or what ever other sick excuse he wants to come up with.

What Paterno did was to find out kids were being molested and made the conscience decision that winning footballs game and the reputation of his football program was more important.

19 engineer cat  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 12:23:33am

perry

"Tomorrow I'm going to unveil a plan to uproot all three branches of government and overhaul Washington," he said in an address to the Scott County GOP, adding that his plan will "touch each branch of government, because they each have contributed to the demise of America."

that am bad! i am fix gummit!

20 Kragar  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 12:24:59am

re: #19 engineer dog

perry

"Tomorrow I'm going to unveil a plan to uproot all three branches of government and overhaul Washington," he said in an address to the Scott County GOP, adding that his plan will "touch each branch of government, because they each have contributed to the demise of America."

that am bad! i am fix gummit!

The real question: Can he name the three branches?

21 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 12:27:05am

re: #18 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

What Paterno did was worse in my opinion. The child molester was a sick bastard, but he can claim psychological illness, daddy didn't hug him enough or what ever other sick excuse he wants to come up with.

What Paterno did was to find out kids were being molested and made the conscience decision that winning footballs game and the reputation of his football program was more important.

Dirty predators, all.

22 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 12:30:33am

re: #21 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Dirty predators, all.

Child Molestation is unbelievably widespread.

Somewhere (probably Oprah) I learned that they estimate 1 in 10 men are turned-on by little kids. Not all act on that desire, with actual children.

Think of how many men you know. . . . .

23 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 12:37:22am

re: #22 ggt

Child Molestation is unbelievably widespread.

Somewhere (probably Oprah) I learned that they estimate 1 in 10 men are turned-on by little kids. Not all act on that desire, with actual children.

Think of how many men you know. . . .

Turned on by violence and abuse of those deemed vulnerable. It's also elder abuse, children with disabilities abuse, foster/adopted abuse, admin assistant abuse, unarmed-countries abuse, the list goes on.

24 engineer cat  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 12:42:20am

holy shit!

bela fleck sitting in with jimmy fallon's band!

25 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 12:43:00am

Scientific Ethics and Stalin’s Ape-Man Superwarriors

[Link: blogs.scientificamerican.com...]

26 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 12:43:03am

re: #23 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Turned on by violence and abuse of those deemed vulnerable. It's also elder abuse, children with disabilities abuse, foster/adopted abuse, admin assistant abuse, unarmed-countries abuse, the list goes on.

According to the Wiki, there is a difference between those turned-on by kids and those turned-on by violence.

I still think there is a "tyrant" gene. Some people just get turned-on by playing G-d.

27 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 12:45:25am

I'll tell ya Lizards, if you've ever had the experience of sitting in a 12-step group and listening to someone whose life was totally fucked-up by a pedophile, your will never be the same.

There are Monsters in the world.

28 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 12:46:15am

Somehow, I "subscribed" myself to this thread.

WTF does that mean.

29 engineer cat  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 12:50:27am

i wonder if it would actually possible to strangle this fucked up java development environment

30 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 12:53:04am

re: #29 engineer dog

i wonder if it would actually possible to strangle this fucked up java development environment

I"m sure you could find a way to do it "virtually".

31 engineer cat  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 12:55:27am

re: #30 ggt

I"m sure you could find a way to do it "virtually".

i'm definitely a virtual void right now, and this environment can bite my unsigned shorts

32 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:02:24am

re: #31 engineer dog

i'm definitely a virtual void right now, and this environment can bite my unsigned shorts

I wish I could help.

But, I have no idea what you are talking about.

:(

33 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:03:23am

re: #31 engineer dog

i'm definitely a virtual void right now, and this environment can bite my unsigned shorts

Will this help?

34 engineer cat  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:05:23am

re: #33 ggt

Will this help?

ah - dangerous drugs, my favorite

35 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:19:03am

re: #26 ggt

According to the Wiki, there is a difference between those turned-on by kids and those turned-on by violence.

I still think there is a "tyrant" gene. Some people just get turned-on by playing G-d.

Wiki and DSM-IV is one thing.

I put these a-holes in the same boat as the cuckold/BBC freaks.

36 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:20:39am

re: #35 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Wiki and DSM-IV is one thing.

I put these a-holes in the same boat as the cuckold/BBC freaks.

To me it's all slavery. Objectifying another human being for one's gratification.

37 researchok  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:22:41am

Morning, all

38 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:22:48am

I'm going to try to sleep again.

Have a good one all!

39 researchok  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:23:23am

re: #38 ggt

Was it something I said?
//

40 engineer cat  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:25:55am

re: #37 researchok

Morning, all

you sure do wake up early!

even if you were on the east coast of the u.s. it would still only be 4:30am...

41 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:27:43am

Police dismantling #OccupyWallStreet camp in NYC. Media not being allowed in to film. Stream: [Link: j.mp...]

42 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:28:40am

re: #41 000G

Police dismantling #OccupyWallStreet camp in NYC. Media not being allowed in to film. Stream: [Link: j.mp...]

* 3:36 a.m. Kitchen tent reported teargassed. Police moving in with zip cuffs.
* 3:33 a.m. Bulldozers moving in
* 3:16 a.m. Occupiers linking arms around riot police
* 3:15 a.m. NYPD destroying personal items. Occupiers prevented from leaving with their possessions.
* 3:13 a.m. NYPD deploying sound cannon
* 3:08 a.m. heard on livestream: "they're bringing in the hoses."
* 3:05 a.m. NYPD cutting down trees in Liberty Square
* 2:55 a.m. NYC council-member Ydanis Rodríguez arrested and bleeding from head.
* 2:44 a.m. Defiant occupiers barricaded Liberty Square kitchen
* 2:44 a.m. NYPD destroys OWS Library. 5,000 donated books in dumpster.
* 2:42 a.m. Brooklyn Bridge confirmed closed
* 2:38 a.m. 400-500 marching north to Foley Square
* 2:32 a.m. All subways but R shut down
* 2:29 a.m. Press helicopters evicted from airspace. NYTimes reporter arrested.
* 2:22 a.m. Frontpage coverage from New York Times
* 2:15 a.m. Occupiers who have been dispersed are regrouping at Foley Square
* 2:10 a.m. Press barred from entering Liberty Square
* 2:07 a.m. Pepper spray deployed -- reports of at least one reporter sprayed
* 2:03 a.m. Massive Police Presence at Canal and Broadway
* 1:43 a.m. Helicopters overhead.
* 1:38 a.m. Unconfirmed reports of snipers on rooftops.
* 1:34 a.m. CBS News Helicopter Livestream
* 1:27 a.m. Unconfirmed reports that police are planning to sweep everyone.
* 1:20 a.m. Subway stops are closed.
* 1:20 a.m. Brooklyn bridge is closed.
* 1:20 a.m. Occupiers chanting "This is what a police state looks like."
* 1:20 a.m. Police are in riot gear.
* 1:20 a.m. Police are bringing in bulldozers.

43 researchok  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:29:55am

re: #40 engineer dog

you sure do wake up early!

even if you were on the east coast of the u.s. it would still only be 4:30am...

Yeah...tell me about it.

The last 6 months require me to be at early morning meetings.

I'd have the perfect job if it weren't for clients.
/

44 researchok  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:33:10am

re: #41 000G

Police dismantling #OccupyWallStreet camp in NYC. Media not being allowed in to film. Stream: [Link: j.mp...]

From the WAPO article:

Police cleared New York’s Zuccotti Park early Tuesday so that sanitation crews could clean the site Occupy Wall Street protesters have inhabited for two months, while in Berkeley, Calif., activists planned another attempt at setting up a new camp.

Concerns about health and safety issues at Occupy Wall Street camps around the country have intensified, and protesters have been ordered to take down their shelters, adhere to curfews and relocate so that parks can be cleaned.

45 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:33:20am

re: #36 ggt

To me it's all slavery. Objectifying another human being for one's gratification.

Agreed - our entire economy was indeed once based on it. It's trained the dumb bigots quite well.

46 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:33:33am

re: #3 WindUpBird

seen this? [Link: www.reuters.com...]

I wonder how many more institutions are covering up this stuff

Youtube Video
Youtube Video
47 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:34:29am

re: #35 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

cuckold/BBC freaks.

?

48 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:35:37am

re: #41 000G

Media not being allowed in to film.

Really stupid move on the part of the cops; lends credence to the inevitable protests of "police state". Nice going, dorks.

49 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:36:03am

re: #47 000G

?

Don't look it up.

50 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:40:01am

re: #49 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Don't look it up.

Too late.

*shrugs*

Harmless, IMHO.

All under the assumption that there is a clear distinction between fantasy and reality on behalf of all participants and that it's consensual.

51 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:41:16am

re: #48 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Really stupid move on the part of the cops; lends credence to the inevitable protests of "police state". Nice going, dorks.

I don't know how true that part is. Mind the source.

52 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:43:18am

re: #48 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Really stupid move on the part of the cops; lends credence to the inevitable protests of "police state". Nice going, dorks.

Sorry, but if this were a true police state, that camp would not have been there for two months. And they wouldn't be using tear gas and pepper spray to move protesters out, they'd be using live ammunition and hauling resisters out in body bags.

53 researchok  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:45:57am

re: #52 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

The 'police state' claim is convenient hyperbole.

Syria is a police state. Libya was a police state.

Save the rhetoric for the banks, IMO. They've earned it.

54 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:46:00am

re: #52 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Sorry, but if this were a true police state, that camp would not have been there for two months. And they wouldn't be using tear gas and pepper spray to move protesters out, they'd be using live ammunition and hauling resisters out in body bags.

Errrr... it's not just black and white. Egypt was a police state, and even they didn't just mow down Tahrir Square.

55 researchok  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:47:27am

re: #54 000G

True, but the Egyptian authorities were merely being selective. Ask the Copts.

56 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:49:57am

re: #55 researchok

True, but the Egyptian authorities were merely being selective. Ask the Copts.

?

Copts were largely anxious during the Revolution until Mubarak's ouster, for fear of losing protection. Now they're being used as wedge issue by the military.

Egyptian authorities during the Revolution mostly targeted organizers, while the thugs they sent out dished out violence indiscriminately.

57 researchok  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:54:15am

re: #56 000G

See this: How the Mubarak Regime Enables the Persecution of Egypt's Copts

It's never simple.

58 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:55:07am

re: #50 000G

Too late.

*shrugs*

Harmless, IMHO.

All under the assumption that there is a clear distinction between fantasy and reality on behalf of all participants and that it's consensual.

As long as they keep those fantasies, presumptions, and power games over there, fine with me.

Sadly, it doesn't always work that way. Rare cases, but I've seen it.

59 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:56:20am

re: #54 000G

Errr... it's not just black and white. Egypt was a police state, and even they didn't just mow down Tahrir Square.

True enough. But then we consider police states like Syria or Libya, which have no hesitated to use everything from bullets to bombs and naval bombardment in attempts to put down such demonstrations.

If we live in a police state, it is one of the most lenient in the world.

60 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:56:27am

re: #52 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Sorry, but if this were a true police state, that camp would not have been there for two months. And they wouldn't be using tear gas and pepper spray to move protesters out, they'd be using live ammunition and hauling resisters out in body bags.

I don't think it's a "police state" either. State shutting out the press is a really bad idea, whatever term is put to it.

61 researchok  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:57:23am

re: #60 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I don't think it's a "police state" either. State shutting out the press is a really bad idea, whatever term is put to it.

I absolutely agree.

Why they shut the press out is beyond me.

62 researchok  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:58:54am

Time to beat the clients.

The early morning crew is a bloody good lot.

Later, all.

63 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:59:36am

re: #59 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

If we live in a police state, it is one of the most lenient in the world.

Just wait a little while.

The worse the economy is going to get, the harder the hammer is going to come down.

64 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:59:37am

re: #61 researchok

I absolutely agree.

Why they shut the press out is beyond me.

I read on twitter that the city closed down the air space over the park - haven't been able to verify yet, though I also haven't tried all that hard. I really hope that is just a wild twitter rumor and not true.

65 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 1:59:45am

re: #60 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I don't think it's a "police state" either. State shutting out the press is a really bad idea, whatever term is put to it.

No clue, but I'd speculate it has to do with the city worrying over any pictures or video that could lead to public outrage.

66 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:01:44am

re: #57 researchok

See this: How the Mubarak Regime Enables the Persecution of Egypt's Copts

It's never simple.

Yes, but that was before the revolution.

And of course wedge issues will always be used by top forces to prevent bottom forces from converging.

I am not sure what your point is in response to my# 54.

67 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:01:49am

re: #65 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

No clue, but I'd speculate it has to do with the city worrying over any pictures or video that could lead to public outrage.

Oh yeah, I don't doubt that's the rationale. One would think they would want the press there for just that reason, to show why they are shutting down the park, dirty hippies, etc. Guess not. I suppose we'll hear all about it in the coming hours.

68 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:03:26am

re: #67 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Oh yeah, I don't doubt that's the rationale. One would think they would want the press there for just that reason, to show why they are shutting down the park, dirty hippies, etc. Guess not. I suppose we'll hear all about it in the coming hours.

Probably because the press won't care about the conditions in the camps, but instead will be focused on any confrontations with the cops, looking for people with bruises, busted lips, visible bleeding, and so forth to go with a story about the "violence" used against protesters.

69 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:04:48am

re: #58 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

As long as they keep those fantasies, presumptions, and power games over there, fine with me.

Sadly, it doesn't always work that way. Rare cases, but I've seen it.

I dunno. What I'm saying is that people who have odd interracial/racial/racist/cuckold/etc fantasies really are different lot because pedophiles by definition cannot have consensual partners: Children cannot consent. Interracial/racial/racist/cuckold/etc fans usually do not have that problem.

70 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:05:05am

re: #68 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Probably because the press won't care about the conditions in the camps, but instead will be focused on any confrontations with the cops, looking for people with bruises, busted lips, visible bleeding, and so forth to go with a story about the "violence" used against protesters.

Or, the "they asked for it" version.

Dirty hippies. //

71 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:05:40am

Morning Honcos.

72 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:06:01am

re: #68 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Why use scare quotes? Violence is violence. Seems like you have preconceived assumptions about the context in which it is actually going to happen.

73 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:06:10am

re: #69 000G

I dunno. What I'm saying is that people who have odd interracial/racial/racist/cuckold/etc fantasies really are different lot because pedophiles by definition cannot have consensual partners: Children cannot consent. Interracial/racial/racist/cuckold/etc fans usually do not have that problem.

When they can control it from spilling over into their non-fantasy and work lives, yes, they are a different lot.

74 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:07:12am

re: #71 Cannadian Club Akbar

Morning Honcos.

You just can't pass the "-1" lately without fixing it, on whatever side, can you? ///

75 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:07:49am

re: #73 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

When they can control it from spilling over into their non-fantasy and work lives, yes, they are a different lot.

But that applies to everybody, not just people with weird fantasies.

76 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:08:06am

re: #70 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Or, the "they asked for it" version.

Dirty hippies. //

Yeah, I have this thing about law and order. But an even bigger thing about sanitation and public safety. After two months, there's serious questions about both, which the city simply can't ignore.

77 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:08:19am

re: #74 Sergey Romanov

Seen my #25?

78 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:08:29am

re: #74 Sergey Romanov

You just can't pass the "-1" lately without fixing it, on whatever side, can you? ///

A -1 shouldn't be in the bottom comments. I would like to think we can suck more than that.:)

79 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:09:09am

re: #78 Cannadian Club Akbar

A -1 shouldn't be in the bottom comments. I would like to think we can suck more than that.:)

Ah, that explains it. With the recent battles it's strange that's all there is. Heh.

80 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:09:28am

re: #77 000G

Seen my #25?

Updinged like 10 minutes ago.

/

81 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:10:35am

re: #72 000G

Why use scare quotes? Violence is violence. Seems like you have preconceived assumptions about the context in which it is actually going to happen.

If I do, it's as to the circumstances that such violence occurs. Especially in light of reports of thrown rocks and cops being cut at other Occupy sites. Believe it or not, cops have a right to defend themselves, same as these protesters.

82 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:10:53am

re: #79 Sergey Romanov

Ah, that explains it. With the recent battles it's strange that's all there is. Heh.

That's what I was thinking. You can pretty much watch a thread and put your money on the winning horse in the "downding" category.

83 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:11:22am

re: #75 000G

But that applies to everybody, not just people with weird fantasies.

Lol the entire tea party has cuckold fantasies about Obama. ///

Stupid freaks.

84 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:13:53am

re: #81 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

If I do, it's as to the circumstances that such violence occurs. Especially in light of reports of thrown rocks and cops being cut at other Occupy sites. Believe it or not, cops have a right to defend themselves, same as these protesters.

So you take other events at other times and other places and transplant them via generalization to your expectations of all Occupy events, including this one?

I still don't know what the scare quotes are supposed to mean. Is the violence not going to be real, actual violence?

85 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:15:25am

re: #81 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

If I do, it's as to the circumstances that such violence occurs. Especially in light of reports of thrown rocks and cops being cut at other Occupy sites. Believe it or not, cops have a right to defend themselves, same as these protesters.

Cut at, as in with a knife?

86 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:16:00am

re: #84 000G

So you take other events at other times and other places and transplant them via generalization to your expectations of all Occupy events, including this one?

I still don't know what the scare quotes are supposed to mean. Is the violence not going to be real, actual violence?

I was speaking more towards attempts to spin any signs of violence as a indictment against the police as a whole, an attempt to paint them as violently trying to put down these protests.

87 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:17:46am

re: #86 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I was speaking more towards attempts to spin any signs of violence as a indictment against the police as a whole, an attempt to paint them as violently trying to put down these protests.

They should'a let the cameras in, so there would be no doubt that they weren't.

88 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:19:27am

re: #85 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Cut at, as in with a knife?

Apparently reported as some kind of pen or pencil tipped with an X-Acto blade.

The Examinier: Two cops injured by Occupy SF protesters

89 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:20:26am

re: #86 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

When police engages by force, violence is inevitable.

When media reports, spin is inevitable.

There is going to be some judgement one way or the other. The way you had phrased it made it seem like you had already made yours.

90 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:21:56am

re: #88 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Apparently reported as some kind of pen or pencil tipped with an X-Acto blade.

The Examinier: Two cops injured by Occupy SF protesters

If true, stupid move.

91 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:22:39am

re: #87 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

They should'a let the cameras in, so there would be no doubt that they weren't.

City also has to take the safety of those reporters into question. Reporter gets caught up in the ruckus, gets injured, city finds itself facing lawsuit.

92 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:24:39am

re: #91 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

City also has to take the safety of those reporters into question. Reporter gets caught up in the ruckus, gets injured, city finds itself facing lawsuit.

So it's for the journalists' own good?

93 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:27:19am

re: #92 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

So it's for the journalists' own good?

Pretty much. Avoids the political and logistical headache of trying to assure the safety of reporters without being accused of blocking or limiting their coverage.

94 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:27:25am

re: #92 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

So it's for the journalists' own good?

That's why they are barring journalists from entering those Arab states, don'tcha know?

95 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:29:58am

re: #93 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Pretty much. Avoids the political and logistical headache of trying to assure the safety of reporters without being accused of blocking or limiting their coverage.

Do you feel that is the real rationale behind banning the press?

96 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:31:22am

If the press chose to venture into territory where they might be injured or hurt, it is their problem, IMO.

97 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:32:03am

re: #95 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Do you feel that is the real rationale behind banning the press?

No, I acknowledge that there are those that wish to black out coverage so as to avoid bad press, whether from altercations between protesters and cops or from unforeseen complications to clearing them out of the park.

98 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:34:08am

re: #97 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

No, I acknowledge that there are those that wish to black out coverage so as to avoid bad press, whether from altercations between protesters and cops or from unforeseen complications to clearing them out of the park.

Kicking out the press is a great way to ensure bad press, I would say.

99 RogueOne  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:36:20am

One more cup of coffee and I have to get to work. Morning Cupcakes!

100 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:36:57am

re: #98 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Kicking out the press is a great way to ensure bad press, I would say.

For perhaps a few hours, maybe a couple days. But then something new will pop up and people's attention will turn away.

101 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:42:50am

Dude, Where's my stash car?
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

102 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:44:16am

re: #100 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

The issues are real. Sports and TMZ moments will only be able to distract for so long. OWS 2.0 will pop up inevitably. Shit is going to get worse before it gets better.

Do people who prescribe police solutions to the current and upcoming social conflicts really think that is going to work in the long run? If yes, then they are not any less delusional than the caricature they have painted of OWS.

103 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:51:31am

re: #102 000G

The issues are real. Sports and TMZ moments will only be able to distract for so long. OWS 2.0 will pop up inevitably. Shit is going to get worse before it gets better.

Do people who prescribe police solutions to the current and upcoming social conflicts really think that is going to work in the long run? If yes, then they are not any less delusional than the caricature they have painted of OWS.

If OWS 2.0 is anything like 1.0, then it's likely to end much the same. There is a very real need for the organization of something resembling a unified movement, with some form of leadership.

104 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:52:32am

re: #100 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

For perhaps a few hours, maybe a couple days. But then something new will pop up and people's attention will turn away.

Maybe for some. Others won't forget stuff like this.

105 RogueOne  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:55:07am

re: #104 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Maybe for some. Others won't forget stuff like this.

Not to get all hyperbolic but Timothy McVeigh went off after he watched what happened at Waco. It is always possible some nut might use heavy handed police tactics as an excuse.

106 RogueOne  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:56:46am

Coffee is gone and so am I...Enjoy the day people.

107 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:56:46am

re: #103 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

If OWS 2.0 is anything like 1.0, then it's likely to end much the same. There is a very real need for the organization of something resembling a unified movement, with some form of leadership.

The movement will be unified by cause, not by leadership. You and I may prefer leadership for the thing to be coherent and having a positive political effect, but that does not make it needed. That need is ideal, not real. If the real social issues underlying OWS are getting worse, then that will sustain OWS. In fact, it will make it stronger and more vicious. Leaders and organizers will provide occasion, not cause.

I kind of fear a German Autumn.

108 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:57:22am

re: #105 RogueOne

Not to get all hyperbolic but Timothy McVeigh went off after he watched what happened at Waco. It is always possible some nut might use heavy handed police tactics as an excuse.

Cripes, that's all we need. I do think a rwnj is much more likely to do that e.g. Anders, white nationalists, and such, than OWS. Though yeah I can definitely see someone using it as a pretext.

109 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:57:22am

re: #105 RogueOne

Not to get all hyperbolic but Timothy McVeigh went off after he watched what happened at Waco. It is always possible some nut might use heavy handed police tactics as an excuse.

Nuts like McVeigh always look for justification for their actions, a boogeyman they can fight against. Should we simply disband the police and eliminate our law suits out of fear that some random nut somewhere will use them as reason to blow up a school?

110 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 2:59:47am

re: #109 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Should we simply disband the police and eliminate our law suits out of fear that some random nut somewhere will use them as reason to blow up a school?

Sigh.

111 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:05:21am

re: #107 000G

The movement will be unified by cause, not by leadership. You and I may prefer leadership for the thing to be coherent and having a positive political effect, but that does not make it needed. If the real social issues underlying OWS are getting worse, then that will sustain OWS. In fact, it will make it stronger and more vicious. Leaders and organizers will provide occasion, not cause.

I kind of fear a German Autumn.

The movement so far seems only to exist as modern day Hoovervilles united in name. Protesting against the problems is admirable, but without clear goals or solutions, it's just so much background noise. I've seen people attribute BoA backing down from its new fees as a sign of the OWS' success, but that's just a point in favor of the need for something more than just raging against the machine.

112 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:07:06am

lol

[Link: af.reuters.com...]

French President Nicolas Sarkozy has written to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to reaffirm friendship despite what he refers to as their "differing views on the Middle East," Israeli officials said on Monday.

[...]

"You have my friendship, and our differing views on the problems of the Middle East, and the interpretations appearing in the media, have no effect on it."

113 EdDantes  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:08:04am

re: #101 Cannadian Club Akbar

Dude, Where's my stash car?
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

My wife told me about that one. There must be a dead drug dealer somewhere.

114 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:09:18am

re: #111 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Protesting against the problems is admirable, but without clear goals or solutions, it's just so much background noise.

I am not talking about admiration. I am not talking about ideals. I am just saying that the problem that OWS is to some people is not going to go away, because the problems that spawned OWS have not gone away, either. And with the social issues becoming worse, OWS or whatever else is coming next will become more than noise and less background.

115 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:13:24am

-2.
[Link: www.baynews9.com...]

[Link: www.baynews9.com...]

116 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:13:57am

re: #114 000G

I am not talking about admiration. I am not talking about ideals. I am just saying that the problem that OWS is to some people is not going to go away, because the problems that spawned OWS have not gone away, either. And with the social issues becoming worse, OWS or whatever else is coming next will become more than noise and less background.

I don't ask that OWS just give up, I ask that OWS rethink strategy. It got people's attention in the beginning and served as a sign of the public's anger and impatience. Sit-ins and picket lines are as traditional in this country as apple pie. But running what amounts to little more than hobo camps in public parks raises questions of public safety and sanitation, which can sour opinions. Doesn't matter if you hold up picket signs from your tent, you're still squatting in places that people used to go for lunch breaks or to play with their kids.

117 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:15:39am

re: #102 000G

The issues are real. Sports and TMZ moments will only be able to distract for so long. OWS 2.0 will pop up inevitably. Shit is going to get worse before it gets better.

Do people who prescribe police solutions to the current and upcoming social conflicts really think that is going to work in the long run? If yes, then they are not any less delusional than the caricature they have painted of OWS.

if unemployment gets worse, unrest will increase

if unemployment gets much worse, violence will increase

that's just the way this shit works

118 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:17:13am

re: #117 WindUpBird

if unemployment gets worse, unrest will increase

if unemployment gets much worse, violence will increase

that's just the way this shit works

And if violence increases, there will be just as many who call on the cops to put it down, which will leads to calls for even greater violence.

Tis a vicious cycle.

119 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:17:22am

re: #116 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

things evolve!

Everyone rethinks strategy, always


talk to any businese owner (like me) constantly evolving new strategies, protest movements are no different

120 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:17:37am

re: #116 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I don't ask that OWS just give up, I ask that OWS rethink strategy.

Well, okay, but that was not my point.

Anyhow, OWS giving up or not is not up to us, yes? And it may be true that OWS should rethink strategy. But then that is true for society at large, too.

121 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:18:03am

re: #118 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

And if violence increases, there will be just as many who call on the cops to put it down, which will leads to calls for even greater violence.

Tis a vicious cycle.

yep!

And America begins to resemble the places we watch on the news, with 25% unemployment

122 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:18:19am

re: #119 WindUpBird

things evolve!

Everyone rethinks strategy, always

talk to any businese owner (like me) constantly evolving new strategies, protest moiements are no different

Except it's been two months, there's no signs of evolution here. Part of evolution in a movement is some kind of leadership, a command structure which can direct the movement and try to lead it to bigger and better things.

123 EdDantes  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:20:07am

re: #116 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Well said. I was for OWS initially as an expression of discontent with with those in power and especially with those who abuse power. But the movement has degenerated into a Woodstock (Altamont?) but without the great music.

124 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:20:10am

re: #120 000G

Well, okay, but that was not my point.

Anyhow, OWS giving up or not is not up to us, yes? And it may be true that OWS should rethink strategy. But then that is true for society at large, too.

Very true. But getting people to rethink things means inspiring to do so. So far, it seems OWS is only inspiring questions of when the squatters are going to be made to move out.

125 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:20:12am

re: #122 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Except it's been two months, there's no signs of evolution here. Part of evolution in a movement is some kind of leadership, a command structure which can direct the movement and try to lead it to bigger and better things.

guess we'll see!

126 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:20:24am

re: #122 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

As long as the negative effects pushing on society will continue, some sort of movement protesting against that will continue to emerge, leadership or not and coherent plan for positive reform or not.

127 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:21:11am

re: #126 000G

As long as the negative effects pushing on society will continue, some sort of movement protesting against that will continue to emerge, leadership or not and coherent plan for positive reform or not.

this precisely

128 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:21:38am

re: #126 000G

As long as the negative effects pushing on society will continue, some sort of movement protesting against that will continue to emerge, leadership or not and coherent plan for positive reform or not.

Indeed. But you bring up the German Autumn and I do fear such a movement. More to the point, I fear people who are facing the problems that OWS was meant to address feeling that OWS is doing nothing to address them and go off to seek more "active" methods of doing so.

129 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:22:00am

re: #124 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

So far, it seems OWS is only inspiring questions of when the squatters are going to be made to move out.

I disagree.

130 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:24:10am

but really

did anyone expect the financial capital of the US to tolerate a tent city for that long? The epicenter of the shit? The place where the pigs feed?


Evolve or die :)

131 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:24:35am

re: #128 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Indeed. But you bring up the German Autumn and I do fear such a movement. More to the point, I fear people who are facing the problems that OWS was meant to address feeling that OWS is doing nothing to address them and go off to seek more "active" methods of doing so.

The thing is: Bringing up ideas for solutions for positive change is a challenge to the whole of society, not just OWS. OWS so far mostly provided focus on the issues until a mishmash of their own incompetence, the media's obsession with spectacle above sophistication, and a vicious RWNJ smear campaign made the focus about lice and poop instead of the country being choked.

132 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:25:18am

re: #130 WindUpBird

but really

did anyone expect the financial capital of the US to tolerate a tent city for that long? The epicenter of the shit? The place where the pigs feed?

Evolve or die :)

Tolerated it for two months, which I'd say is an accomplishment. They could have gone in there, busting heads on Day One.

133 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:27:22am

re: #131 000G

The thing is: Bringing up ideas for solutions for positive change is a challenge to the whole of society, not just OWS. OWS so far mostly provided focus on the issues until a mishmash of their own incompetence, the media's obsession with spectacle above sophistication, and a vicious RWNJ smear campaign made the focus about lice and poop instead of the country being choked.

OWS has provided focus, has provided energy. But now it needs to do more with that, has to start promoting solutions and setting goals. A movement without a goal is pointless, it's just people milling around, bitching about how things are bad but with no clue as to how make them better.

134 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:29:01am

meanwhile, this is happening: [Link: twitter.com...]

135 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:30:34am

re: #134 WindUpBird

meanwhile, this is happening: [Link: twitter.com...]

The next few hours should be interesting.

136 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:31:09am

I think this is live? [Link: yfrog.com...]

137 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:31:54am

re: #135 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

The next few hours should be interesting.

hope they can harness the energy

138 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:32:30am

re: #136 WindUpBird

nm not live, footage

139 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:32:38am

Not Just Debit Fees: Other Ways U.S. Banks Cost Customers
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

140 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:34:05am

re: #137 WindUpBird

hope they can harness the energy

As do I. If anything comes out of this, I'd like it to be something useful, something moving, rather than just a lot of arrests and/or busy ERs.

141 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:34:36am

re: #133 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

A movement without a goal is pointless, it's just people milling around, bitching about how things are bad but with no clue as to how make them better.

I agree, yet I'd content that that's still "better" than people just sucking it up and placing blame for any sort of disharmony on the malcontents and miscreants. Yknow, "the 53%ers". The subaltern.

There's a blindness that is still able to affirm what's right by being against what's not right with all their being. They provide the social limits with their own selves. Without knowing how and whatfor, they make way.

And there's people who know nothing but loyalty to the status quo. Nihilists in their own right, if only less visible than those they prefer to malign.

142 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:34:59am

re: #140 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

As do I. If anything comes out of this, I'd like it to be something useful, something moving, rather than just a lot of arrests and/or busy ERs.

the energy and momentum itself is "useful" but yes, agree

143 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:35:09am

Now that the cops have cleared the protesters out of Zucotti Park, there are no sanitation concerns in all of New York City. Rejoice.

144 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:36:15am

"Per @LindseyChrist, riot police didn't distinguish between media & protesters. "They took a Post reporter and threw him in a choke hold."

145 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:36:20am

re: #143 Obdicut

Now that the cops have cleared the protesters out of Zucotti Park, there are no sanitation concerns in all of New York City. Rejoice.

Finally the battle against rapey, stabby commies is over. Orderly society triumphs once again over the hippie scum. Now for your regularly scheduled football breaks from economic meltdown.

146 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:36:21am

re: #143 Obdicut

Now that the cops have cleared the protesters out of Zucotti Park, there are no sanitation concerns in all of New York City. Rejoice.

If the streets don't smell like urine at Christmas, I ain't vacationing there.
///

147 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:36:55am

re: #141 000G

I agree, yet I'd content that that's still "better" than people just sucking it up and placing blame for any sort of disharmony on the malcontents and miscreants. Yknow, "the 53%ers". The subaltern.

There's a blindness that is still able to affirm what's right by being against what's not right with all their being. They provide the social limits with their own selves. Without knowing how and whatfor, they make way.

And there's people who know nothing but loyalty to the status quo. Nihilists in their own right, if only less visible than those they prefer to malign.

True enough. The country is on hard times, but for many, it will have to get worse before they ever remove the rose-tinted glasses and acknowledge the very real problems that so many of us are grappling with now.

148 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:38:18am

re: #147 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Come to think of it, how many Americans believe that you can "pray away the gay"?

149 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:38:32am

re: #145 000G

the bread and circuses will resume after these brief messages from JP Morgan Chase

150 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:39:00am

re: #147 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I'm really wondering how much worse it has to get. 30 years of stagnant wages, companies blatantly shutting down jobs here and shipping them overseas, workers dying on the job because corporations want a quick buck. If anyone isn't pissed already, I have trouble understanding what would make them pissed.

I mean, we've all seen the people holding up signs about how they work three jobs and can barely afford health insurance but they're not complaining. Why aren't they? Is that the life that they want?

151 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:39:14am

re: #148 000G

Come to think of it, how many Americans believe that you can "pray away the gay"?

Don't know, but I'm sure it's far too many for my tastes. I'd like to tell them each where to cram that "ol' time religion."

152 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:40:59am

Alrighty. Worky. See y'all this afternoon.:)

153 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:41:03am

re: #151 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Don't know, but I'm sure it's far too many for my tastes. I'd like to tell them each where to cram that "ol' time religion."

Do you think religiosity is an impediment towards change for the better right now in the US?

154 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:41:05am

but really, how impressive is that, they took down zucotti, immediately there's a new gathering

155 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:42:15am

re: #150 Obdicut

I'm really wondering how much worse it has to get. 30 years of stagnant wages, companies blatantly shutting down jobs here and shipping them overseas, workers dying on the job because corporations want a quick buck. If anyone isn't pissed already, I have trouble understanding what would make them pissed.

I mean, we've all seen the people holding up signs about how they work three jobs and can barely afford health insurance but they're not complaining. Why aren't they? Is that the life that they want?

I honestly have no answer, because at this point, it's beyond me how people can look at their lives getting progressively shittier and be happy, or at least unwilling to do more than sit on their asses and wait for it to "get better." Some honestly seem to be of the opinion that this is just some "dry spell," that America always gets better and those griping about it now simply are too young or too impatient to understand that.

156 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:43:56am

re: #150 Obdicut

Why aren't they? Is that the life that they want?

They've been told that "life isn't fair", that any secular political solution to social problems amounts to communism, and that "capitalism" rewards people who pull themselves up by their boostraps nevermind any actual data on social mobility, so why complain about your three jobs if you could work a fourth one in the time that complaining would take up?

157 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:44:44am

re: #154 WindUpBird

Which is part of why I think the camps as camps were always a silly idea. Having a camp gives the cops something to attack, it gives the city something to point at say "You're making that dirty", and it makes the members of the movement vulnerable to petty and not-so-petty crime. The instant reforming shows that the camps don't matter, they're not necessary. If you want to Occupy, you don't need a tent.

Just gather every day, and every night too if you want to. Shit, let the drummers take the night shift, they're annoying anyway. But really, staying overnight is not really symbolically all that important, I don't think.

158 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:44:53am

re: #153 000G

Do you think religiosity is an impediment towards change for the better right now in the US?

I think religion is one aspect of it, yes. Or, rather is indicative of a mindset that's resistant to change, is unable to accept it. Trying to keep hold of a more idealized view of reality.

159 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:46:04am

re: #156 000G

I would like to once again point out that the phrase 'pull yourself up by your bootstraps' used to mean 'something which is not possible'.

The irony has been polished off the phrase by decades of glibertarian tongue-licking.

160 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:47:02am

re: #158 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Paul Feyerabend, who provided brilliant criticism of liberalism, once said something very concise about conservatism that I always kept in mind:

Conservatism is simply prefering the older approach. It's got nothing to do with which approach is actually the better one.

161 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:47:12am

re: #157 Obdicut

I figure it's the internet, right? The internet is creative! Get creative!

I do sorta believe that the camps had to happen first, for there to be a starting point, but yes, it can't just be camps now, the techniques gotta change

162 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:47:49am

re: #157 Obdicut

isn't the internet all about flash mobs? that seems like a pretty useful tool

163 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:48:03am

re: #159 Obdicut

I would like to once again point out that the phrase 'pull yourself up by your bootstraps' used to mean 'something which is not possible'.

The irony has been polished off the phrase by decades of glibertarian tongue-licking.

People believing in the phrase would reply to that by saying that making the impossible possible is what that idealism is all about.

164 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:48:27am

re: #160 000G

And modern 'conservatism' isn't even that. It's wanting to try radically nutty approaches which are doubling-down on failures. We just had a meltdown due to under-regulation, and the 'conservatives' are saying that we need more deregulation. We have a debt crisis, and they're saying we need less revenue.

Etc.

165 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:49:57am

"They are raiding zuccotti park and #occupywallstreet nypd is blocking press and others from immediate vicinity of liberty plaza"

166 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:51:01am

obviously old news, but interesting

167 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:52:00am

re: #164 Obdicut

Modern 'conservatism' simply wants less government at any price. But those conservatives also want so under the title and banner of returning to older, better, simpler times. The radicals have an attitude of restoration about their agenda. In a way, that idealistic approach to historical contextualization of your own actions is not much different from the assumption of primitive communism on the behalf of communists.

168 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:52:37am

re: #156 000G

They've been told that "life isn't fair", that any secular political solution to social problems amounts to communism, and that "capitalism" rewards people who pull themselves up by their boostraps nevermind any actual data on social mobility, so why complain about your three jobs if you could work a fourth one in the time that complaining would take up?

And along with the "bootstrap" bit has always been admonitions about how people who whine just can't handle "hard work." I've heard that proverb more than once in my life, "hard work is its own reward." Thing is, it's incomplete, because today it should read "taking credit for someone else's hard work is its own reward."

169 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 3:59:23am

So, are we all just in such agreement that we've nothing else to say?

170 KronoGhazi  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 4:00:43am

Bootstraps - drink!

Less government - drink!

fiscal (anything) - drink!

family values - drink!

War on drugs - drink!

Uh.... on that last one.....

171 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 4:00:52am

re: #169 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

So, are we all just in such agreement that we've nothing else to say?

Thats never stopped any of us before!

172 KronoGhazi  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 4:02:53am

re: #169 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

So, are we all just in such agreement that we've nothing else to say?

We solved INTERNETS!

173 EdDantes  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 4:07:37am

re: #169 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

So, are we all just in such agreement that we've nothing else to say?

close down the site. Turn off the lights.

174 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 4:08:16am

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you:

t.A.T.u. – How Soon Is Now (Stretch Speed Version)

175 EdDantes  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 4:15:52am

Nite all.

176 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 4:20:49am

re: #175 EdDantes

Nite all.

Nytol??

[Link: www.google.com...]

177 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 4:23:26am

So the question is,,,, WHY!?!?


[Link: www.wsbtv.com...]

A man parked his car in front of the emergency room at Grady Memorial Hospital, brought the body inside and took off,

IF he had anything to do with the death, why take the body somewhere where you'll most likely be seen
IF he didn't have anything to do with the death, why the dump-and-run??

178 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 4:27:14am

re: #177 sattv4u2

So the question is,,, WHY!?!?

[Link: www.wsbtv.com...]

A man parked his car in front of the emergency room at Grady Memorial Hospital, brought the body inside and took off,

IF he had anything to do with the death, why take the body somewhere where you'll most likely be seen
IF he didn't have anything to do with the death, why the dump-and-run??

Could be they did have something to do with the death, and their guilt motivated them to drop off the body where somebody would find it.

IIRC, there was an episode of Law & Order: SVU that started out like that.

179 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 4:35:55am

re: #174 000G

What's the catch?

180 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 4:40:55am

re: #179 Sergey Romanov

What's the catch?

No catch. Everything is above board.

181 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 4:41:20am

Hm?: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

182 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 4:43:40am

re: #181 000G

That dude's just prolix.

I don't think he understands how incredibly weird he seems.

183 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 4:45:27am

re: #182 Obdicut

He's an acquaintance of some lizard in good standing, forgot who.

184 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 4:46:49am

re: #183 Sergey Romanov

Rightwingconspirator, I think.

There's a paper to be written about people who don't give a shit that the style of their message renders it unpalatable. I for the life of me can't figure out why they don't. If you're bothering to write shit, shouldn't you be concerned about the effectiveness of that writing?

185 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 4:47:19am

You won't get links like this from the OWS-crushers here.

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

186 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 4:48:46am

re: #184 Obdicut

The point is, he probably thinks that his "structured" style makes it more palatable. SCIENCE!

187 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 4:52:24am

People should have a look at this:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Sandusky is out on unsecured bail, set by a judge who was a volunteer at his charity.

I wonder if he's going to kill himself.

188 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 4:53:51am

re: #181 000G

Hm?: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

END THE FED!!!11!! GOLD STANDARD!!!111!!

189 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 4:54:06am

re: #187 Obdicut

People should have a look at this:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Sandusky is out on unsecured bail, set by a judge who was a volunteer at his charity.

I wonder if he's going to kill himself.

Was he forced to surrender his passport? Because suicide might not be the only tactic.

190 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 4:54:13am

re: #187 Obdicut

I wonder if he's going to kill himself.

Hope not, that would mean prosecution wouldn't be able to get him to open up about more people involved in this.

In any case, that judge needs to be investigated and her verdict overturned.

191 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 4:55:02am

re: #187 Obdicut

People should have a look at this:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Sandusky is out on unsecured bail, set by a judge who was a volunteer at his charity.

I wonder if he's going to kill himself.

I can't for the life of me understand why the judge wouldn't recuse him/herself from the case?

192 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 4:57:16am

re: #191 rwdflynavy

I can't for the life of me understand why the judge wouldn't recuse him/herself from the case?

Because she's of the same mindset as Paterno and all the others and thinks there is nothing to playing favorites?

193 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 4:57:25am

re: #191 rwdflynavy

I can't for the life of me understand why the judge wouldn't recuse him/herself from the case?

Herself. And I can't either. Especially when the action she takes is to set low, unsecured-- i.e. he didn't have to pay a dime to walk out of there-- bail.

This incident is making a lot of people act very bizarrely.

194 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 4:58:02am

re: #190 000G

I don't think bail conditions are something that can be reviewed in any sort of timely manner. I am not an expert; ask Lawhawk if he shows up.

195 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:01:16am

re: #187 Obdicut

I wonder if he's going to kill himself.

Gosh, I hope he does not.

*blink*

196 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:02:39am

Sandusky's lawyer impregnated a 16 year old girl when the lawyer was 49.

[Link: gawker.com...]

That is a bad choice of lawyer.

197 makeitstopghazi  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:03:00am

re: #143 Obdicut

Now that the cops have cleared the protesters out of Zucotti Park, there are no sanitation concerns in all of New York City. Rejoice.

Rape and stabbings are now a thing of the past. It's a glorious day.

198 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:04:06am

re: #195 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I really hope he doesn't. That would cause a lot of people to say "Well, it's over now" and turn away, when really, this needs to be fully fucking explored. Everyone who covered up, everyone who failed in their duty to report, needs to be investigated.

And his victims would benefit more from seeing the accusations of him borne out and a sentence handed down than him just killing himself. Suicide is a way to escape justice.

199 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:04:17am

re: #196 Obdicut

Sandusky's lawyer impregnated a 16 year old girl when the lawyer was 49.

[Link: gawker.com...]

That is a bad choice of lawyer.

Yegods, talk about a circus.

200 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:05:12am

re: #197 makeitstop

Rape and stabbings are now a thing of the past. It's a glorious day.

Some protesters were arrested for the high crime of jaywalking, probably while being watched by passerbys who were jaywalking.

201 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:07:09am

They rape
And stab
And rape and rape and stab
Rape rape rape
Stab stab stab

The Occupy Wall Street shoooow! (as seen by wingnuts)

202 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:09:29am

re: #198 Obdicut

If he is found guilty and then is put in jail, can we put a "kill yourself machine" in the cell with him?

203 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:11:25am

re: #202 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

If he is found guilty and then is put in jail, can we put a "kill yourself machine" in the cell with him?

Well, I support the right of anyone to commit suicide if they want to-- except when they've been charged with a crime. So afterwards, sure, we can be merciful and let him kill himself.

Except, you know, we can't, since we criminalize suicide. But as far as I'm concerned, sure.

204 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:14:40am

re: #203 Obdicut

Well, I support the right of anyone to commit suicide if they want to-- except when they've been charged with a crime. So afterwards, sure, we can be merciful and let him kill himself.

Except, you know, we can't, since we criminalize suicide. But as far as I'm concerned, sure.

He should be put on trial and let the victims get some closure from this disgusting abuse. It is known that inmates hate pedophiles. He may pay the price for everything he's done the hard way.

205 KronoGhazi  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:15:19am

re: #202 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

If he is found guilty and then is put in jail, can we put a "kill yourself machine" in the cell with him?

After the trial is done. Except it's prolly illegal.

206 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:17:00am

re: #201 Sergey Romanov

They rape
And stab
And rape and rape and stab
Rape rape rape
Stab stab stab

The Occupy Wall Street shooow! (as seen by wingnuts)

You rang?

I am not a wingnut! I'm a non-partisan moderate and treat everything equally!!11ty

207 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:19:03am

re: #206 Gus 802

If they do, then it means their treatment of the other side needs to be reconsidered.

I know I would go a bit different in my TP criticisms if they happened after what I've seen from OWS critics.

208 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:19:30am

@thinkprogress ThinkProgress
BREAKING: Judge says NYC cannot prevent "protesters from re-entering the park with tents." #ows [Link: t.co...]

Checkmate!

This is why we have to get rid of activist judges!!11ty

209 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:21:08am

re: #208 Gus 802

@thinkprogress ThinkProgress
BREAKING: Judge says NYC cannot prevent "protesters from re-entering the park with tents." #ows [Link: t.co...]

Checkmate!

Court order from the Supreme Court of New York:

[Link: www.documentcloud.org...]

This is for Liberty Park. Kind of ironic isn't it? Liberty.

210 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:21:20am

Update from NYC...the OWS protesters can go back to Zuccotti Park...

A New York judge on Tuesday issued a temporary restraining order allowing protesters to return to Zuccotti Park only hours after police forcibly removed them, arresting dozens.

The order by Justice Lucy Billings set a hearing date for Tuesday at 11:30 a.m. and said that until the matter was considered at that hearing, the city and Brookfield Properties, the owners of Zuccotti Park, would be prohibited from evicting protesters or "enforcing 'rules' published after the occupation began or otherwise preventing protesters from re-entering the park with tents and other property previously utilized."

It was not immediately clear what effect the order would have on the protesters meeting in nearby Foley Square. Some had advocated returning to the park.

211 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:23:57am

Michael Bloomberg is about to have a news conference.
Live stream here.

212 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:24:19am

re: #208 Gus 802

I am weirded out that more people don't seem to be bothered that cops are arresting people after being told by judges that the arrests have no merit to them. Isn't that wasting money and resources?

213 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:24:21am

re: #207 Sergey Romanov

If they do, then it means their treatment of the other side needs to be reconsidered.

I know I would go a bit different in my TP criticisms if they happened after what I've see from OWS critics.

I never once thought that the TP should be stopped from protesting. I heckled them no doubt -- only online. I saw a TP float at the 4th of July Parade last summer and didn't go bonkers at them, I just looked. But then again I stray into TP territory on many issues myself. I am after all is said and done 1/16th redneck! ;)

214 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:25:45am

re: #213 Gus 802

"Yes, Chad, you're half-hillbilly!" (c) Tucker&Dave v. Evil

215 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:26:15am

re: #214 Sergey Romanov

"Yes, Chad, you're half-hillbilly!" (c) Tucker&Dave v. Evil

Was that a SCOTUS case?

//

216 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:27:17am

re: #212 Obdicut

I am weirded out that more people don't seem to be bothered that cops are arresting people after being told by judges that the arrests have no merit to them. Isn't that wasting money and resources?

This will probably go back in forth from several hours to a couple of days. Maybe even weeks.

217 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:27:44am

re: #150 Obdicut

I'm really wondering how much worse it has to get. 30 years of stagnant wages, companies blatantly shutting down jobs here and shipping them overseas, workers dying on the job because corporations want a quick buck. If anyone isn't pissed already, I have trouble understanding what would make them pissed.

I mean, we've all seen the people holding up signs about how they work three jobs and can barely afford health insurance but they're not complaining. Why aren't they? Is that the life that they want?

They were told that the other guy is going to want their cookie.

218 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:28:46am

re: #213 Gus 802

My sole problem with the Tea Partiers has always been the views the express, not the way they express it. If they had decided to camp out in parks, the irony would have been rich-- camping on public land-- but it'd be the irony, not the action, I'd be pointing out.

That said, I still think the actual act of Occupying at night is causing more difficulties for the protesters than it is providing any benefit. I guess it gives those who have traveled a long way to the protests a place to stay, but I'd rather crowdsource that, have protesters let other protesters crash on their couches, etc.

Oh, and a New York City council member, Ydanis Rodriguez, was injured during the raid, and arrested.

[Link: blogs.villagevoice.com...]

219 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:29:32am

re: #213 Gus 802

I would think people would celebrate the freedom of assembly, despite even some inconveniences such freedom always brings. I mean here in Russia we can have single-person pickets without official confirmations, and that's that. If somebody (say a provocateur) joins you, you both risk a chance of being hauled to the nearest station. This even tho the constitution guarantees the freedom of assembly.

220 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:29:55am

re: #215 Gus 802

Was that a SCOTUS case?

//

:)))

221 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:30:01am

Bloomberg is talking now.

222 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:30:21am

Bloomberg speaking: He's using the court order against the NYPD against shutting down the park... to shut down the park until it's "clarified."

What a crock.

223 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:30:31am

re: #218 Obdicut

My sole problem with the Tea Partiers has always been the views the express, not the way they express it. If they had decided to camp out in parks, the irony would have been rich-- camping on public land-- but it'd be the irony, not the action, I'd be pointing out.

That said, I still think the actual act of Occupying at night is causing more difficulties for the protesters than it is providing any benefit. I guess it gives those who have traveled a long way to the protests a place to stay, but I'd rather crowdsource that, have protesters let other protesters crash on their couches, etc.

Oh, and a New York City council member, Ydanis Rodriguez, was injured during the raid, and arrested.

[Link: blogs.villagevoice.com...]

I'm all for a compromise. If that includes no overnight stay probably for the better.

224 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:31:03am

re: #222 Obdicut

Bloomberg speaking: He's using the court order against the NYPD against shutting down the park... to shut down the park until it's "clarified."

What a crock.

No more tents allowed.

225 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:31:13am

Bloomberg is claiming that the protesters make the part unavailable to anyone else.

It wasn't unavailable to me when I went down there. So I'm not really sure what he means.

226 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:31:14am

re: #222 Obdicut

Bloomberg speaking: He's using the court order against the NYPD against shutting down the park... to shut down the park until it's "clarified."

What a crock.

WTF? So he's stabbing the NYPD in the back?

227 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:31:34am

I probably should have used a different metaphor.

228 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:31:51am

re: #162 WindUpBird

isn't the internet all about flash mobs? that seems like a pretty useful tool

There are already laws going into the books to make those illegal. Or at least tie a nice conspiracy charge into any violence that occurs due to a flash mob congregating. Philly has had issues with groups of youths gathering and then carrying out small riots or beating passers-by.

Of course, the enabling media is blamed without going much deeper into the other potential reasons for the outbreak(s) taking place.

229 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:32:45am

Is there any way to come up with injunctions against Bloomberg for going against NY State Supreme Court decisions? NY State National Guard (not that I believe Cuomo would ever go for that)?

230 KronoGhazi  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:32:45am

re: #227 Gus 802

I probably should have used a different metaphor.

Hell no, that's what Meta's For.

231 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:33:05am

re: #226 Gus 802

WTF? So he's stabbing the NYPD in the back?

No, no. The court ruled that they can't forbid protesters from coming back in. They're keeping the park closed until they can 'clarify' that order.

So the court said they have to let people back into the park, and so they're not letting anyone back into the park until they can say "What exactly do you mean by that?"

232 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:33:12am

Here's the judge! Cue the splodey heads.

Justice Lucy Billings
Candidate for the
Supreme Court
First Judicial District
(New York)

Personal Statement

Justice Lucy Billings prepared for the Supreme Court as a lawyer for 25 years at the ACLU National Headquarters and as Litigation Director in Legal Services, handling complex civil rights litigation to enforce new rights for minority, disabled, and low-income persons. She forged new legal remedies by litigating issues not previously addressed in housing, environmental justice, including preventing lead poisoning, public health, child welfare, education, and employment. In 12 years as a judge, she has presided over complicated, high profile cases. They include unlawful attempts to prohibit street artists from selling their work, State agencies' unlawful procedures for collecting debts, construction site disasters, sexual abuse of schoolchildren, and discriminatory firing of employees. She has written over 200 published decisions. Examples include prohibiting unlawful government practices, recognizing same sex marriages, finding new avenues for recovery by injured construction workers and pothole victims, reforming the standards and procedures for issuing business licenses and granting and revoking parole, and ridding the public markets of corruption and unsanitary conditions.

Party Membership - Democrat

Party Line - Democrat

233 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:33:34am

re: #219 Sergey Romanov

(PS: I guess you really don't appreciate things until you lose them.)

234 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:33:59am

re: #231 Obdicut

No, no. The court ruled that they can't forbid protesters from coming back in. They're keeping the park closed until they can 'clarify' that order.

So the court said they have to let people back into the park, and so they're not letting anyone back into the park until they can say "What exactly do you mean by that?"

That would be like a temporary injunction to the court ruling. Or something.

235 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:34:47am

They're pretending that this is all just about camping overnight, and that's the only reason they did this.

236 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:35:10am

re: #233 Sergey Romanov

(PS: I guess you really don't appreciate things until you lose them.)

Americans would have been able to keep their freedoms if only those damn hippies hadn't decided on rape-stab revolution and force the police to take them away from everybody! :-(

237 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:35:50am

re: #232 Gus 802

Nice photo. I like her :)

238 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:36:24am

He keeps talking about non-protesters not being allowed into the park.

This is untrue. I'm not sure why he thinks it'll be believed. Lots of people have gone down just to take a look.

239 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:36:44am

re: #237 Sergey Romanov

Nice photo. I like her :)

She seems pretty cool. Official bio here...

[Link: www.nycourtsystem.com...]

240 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:36:58am

re: #235 Obdicut

They're pretending that this is all just about camping overnight, and that's the only reason they did this.

He said it was also for safety and health reasons.

241 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:37:12am

re: #231 Obdicut

No, no. The court ruled that they can't forbid protesters from coming back in. They're keeping the park closed until they can 'clarify' that order.

So the court said they have to let people back into the park, and so they're not letting anyone back into the park until they can say "What exactly do you mean by that?"

So city says "All protesters out of the park."

Judge tells city "You can't keep the protesters out of the park."

City responds by declaring "We'll just shut down the park."

You ever watch this stuff in action and think resembles a bunch of children arguing on the playground?

242 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:37:17am

Bloomberg is being pretty fair about the allegations of defecation being unproven, the protesters almost all being peaceful, etc.

243 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:38:25am

re: #241 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Well, really, they can't keep the park closed past the 'clarification'. This is the weirdest reason to keep it closed ever.

244 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:39:08am

J.D., University of California at Berkeley School of Law, 1973!!11ty

245 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:39:45am

re: #243 Obdicut

Well, really, they can't keep the park closed past the 'clarification'. This is the weirdest reason to keep it closed ever.

It's a stalling tactic. Grabbing every second they can to get as much of the tent city in the back of the garbage trucks before the city is forced to let the protesters back in.

246 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:39:58am

re: #243 Obdicut

It's like sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "LALALALALA I CAN'T UNDERSTAND YOU!" and then going ahead with what you'd set out to do anyway.

247 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:40:16am

re: #243 Obdicut

Well, really, they can't keep the park closed past the 'clarification'. This is the weirdest reason to keep it closed ever.

Honestly, they probably know they'll be in violation of a court order, but just figure the fine is worth it versus a second raid.

248 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:40:31am

This is another reason why the semi-leaderless nature of the protests is problematic, though. If the mayor actually did want to negotiate, who could he negotiate with? He'd have to go before the entire general assembly, I think, and that's pretty practically unworkable.

249 makeitstopghazi  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:40:54am

re: #227 Gus 802

I probably should have used a different metaphor.

You could have said he was raping them.
/

250 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:41:02am

B.A., Smith College, 1970... Which means she was in college from approximately 1966 to 1970. You know what this means?!?

She's a hippie! Run for them hills!

//

251 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:41:08am

re: #241 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

So city says "All protesters out of the park."

Judge tells city "You can't keep the protesters out of the park."

City responds by declaring "We'll just shut down the park."

You ever watch this stuff in action and think resembles a bunch of children arguing on the playground?

All the time. Watch or read practically any exchange of international diplomacy (especially in the late 19th century) and what is published looks exactly like that. The real agreements are being made in closed drawing rooms by a couple of professional diplomats and foreign secretaries.

252 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:41:30am

re: #247 McSpiff

Honestly, they probably know they'll be violation of a court order, but just figure the fine is worth it versus a second raid.

How awesome would it be if the judge ordered the city to donate a couple of army-style tents to the occupiers as compensation?

253 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:41:43am

re: #247 McSpiff

Honestly, they probably know they'll be violation of a court order, but just figure the fine is worth it versus a second raid.

But they know that the protesters will be let back in. So it makes very little sense to keep them out for another couple of hours.

254 kirkspencer  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:43:16am

re: #248 Obdicut

This is another reason why the semi-leaderless nature of the protests is problematic, though. If the mayor actually did want to negotiate, who could he negotiate with? He'd have to go before the entire general assembly, I think, and that's pretty practically unworkable.

Except the general assembly has produced committees to act for the whole on other issues. See for example the finance committee.

255 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:43:27am

re: #253 Obdicut

But they know that the protesters will be let back in. So it makes very little sense to keep them out for another couple of hours.

It's about disrupting things as much as possible. How many of these folks could afford to replace all the stuff that the city will have crammed in garbage trucks and driven off by the time they're forced to let the protesters back in?

256 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:44:07am

Come on. We're talking Bloomberg here. Not exactly Mr. Happy. He'll find a way to come off as a big asshole like he always does.

257 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:44:41am

re: #248 Obdicut

Not comparing Al Qaeda and OWS.

Who do you negotiate with in Al Qaeda? It's one system with many factions with many more cells with many more managers more fervent than the other managers.

258 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:46:05am

re: #213 Gus 802

What I mean though is the arguments used. There's been some going overboard about the extremist signs and whatnot, including here at LGF. In hindsight, they should have been noted but not extrapolated to the whole TP movement. For me TP is politically unacceptable because it is a socon movement and that's that. And yes, I think there's been a racial undertone to the whole thing (tho that doesn't make all TPers racists).

If someone busted their ass off to paint TP in darkest colors, and then did the same thing to OWS, they shouldn't be surprised to see that their previous work is now suspect too.

259 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:46:36am

re: #252 000G

There really is a ban on sleeping/camping in parks, and it really is within the rights of the city to enforce that. This actually speaks to what McSpiff was muddeldly trying to communicate yesterday; the protesters aren't particularly protesting against the laws against camping in parks, but those are the laws they're violating in the largest number.

Protesting the corporations fucking up common property by camping on common property and giving the city a chance to accuse the protesters of fucking it up is self-defeating. You don't protest the tragedy of the commons by creating one.

However, this is obviously selective enforcement. There's tons of sanitation issues affecting far more New Yorkers, there's far, far more homeless in the city then there are protesters, etc. etc.

The reason they're doing this is because of how visible it is, and they feel like they have to do something. I don't even think they're really trying to end the protests. It's just meaningless action.

260 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:47:31am

Boker Tov, Lizardia. What did I miss over the long weekend?

261 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:47:56am

re: #259 Obdicut

So basically the clown cars keep crashing into one another.

262 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:48:09am

re: #260 Alouette

Boker Tov, Lizardia. What did I miss over the long weekend?

Some bickering.

263 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:48:10am

re: #254 kirkspencer

Except the general assembly has produced committees to act for the whole on other issues. See for example the finance committee.

Have they created a delegation to liaise with the Mayor's office, or the police, or anything of that nature? Honest question.

264 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:48:11am

re: #253 Obdicut

But they know that the protesters will be let back in. So it makes very little sense to keep them out for another couple of hours.

Well no, the hearing is booked for 11:30. So they may be expecting a favorable outcome from that.

265 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:48:34am

re: #262 Sergey Romanov

Some bickering.

"Some"?

266 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:49:22am

re: #264 McSpiff

Well no, the hearing is booked for 11:30. So they may be expecting a favorable outcome from that.

No, you're not getting it. The mayor said that before receiving word of the 'restraining order' they were planning on letting the protesters back into the park. The judge's order was to let people back into the park. So if the Mayor's office was planning on letting people back into the park, and the judge was ordering them to let people back into the park, responding by not letting people back into the park is odd.

267 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:49:22am

re: #260 Alouette

Boker Tov, Lizardia. What did I miss over the long weekend?

re: #261 000G

So basically the clown cars keep crashing into one another.

That.

268 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:50:08am

re: #265 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

;)

269 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:50:22am

OWS plans for Thursday...

Thursday November 17th National Day of Action #N17 #OWS

On Thursday November 17th, the two month anniversary of the Occupy Wall Street movement, we call upon the 99% to participate in a national day of direct action and celebration!
New York City Schedule

BREAKFAST: Shut Down Wall Street – 7:00 a.m.

Enough of this economy that exploits and divides us. It’s time we put an end to Wall Street’s reign of terror and begin building an economy that works for all. We will gather in Liberty Square at 7:00 a.m., before the ring of the Trading Floor Bell, to prepare to confront Wall Street with the stories of people on the frontlines of economic injustice. There, before the Stock Exchange, we will exchange stories rather than stocks.

LUNCH: Occupy The Subways – 3:00 p.m.

We will start by Occupying Our Blocks! Then throughout the five boroughs, we will gather at 16 central subway hubs and take our own stories to the trains, using the “People’s Mic”.

DINNER: Take The Square – 5:00 p.m.

At 5 pm, tens of thousands of people will gather at Foley Square (just across from City Hall) in solidarity with laborers demanding jobs to rebuild this country’s infrastructure and economy. A gospel choir and a marching band will also be performing.

Afterwards we will march to our bridges. Let’s make it as musical a march as possible – bring your songs, your voice, your spirit! Our “Musical” on the bridge will culminate in a festival of light as we mark the two-month anniversary of the #occupy movement, and our commitment to shining light into our broken economic and political system.

Resist austerity. Rebuild the economy. Reclaim our democracy.

270 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:50:34am

re: #261 000G

So basically the clown cars keep crashing into one another.

Mongo not happy with being in the bumper car of life.

271 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:51:10am

re: #266 Obdicut

No, you're not getting it. The mayor said that before receiving word of the 'restraining order' they were planning on letting the protesters back into the park. The judge's order was to let people back into the park. So if the Mayor's office was planning on letting people back into the park, and the judge was ordering them to let people back into the park, responding by not letting people back into the park is odd.

You're missing half the Mayor's statement. He said they'd be allowed back without tents and personal affects. The Judge ruled they can't ban tents.

272 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:51:16am

re: #266 Obdicut

No, you're not getting it. The mayor said that before receiving word of the 'restraining order' they were planning on letting the protesters back into the park. The judge's order was to let people back into the park. So if the Mayor's office was planning on letting people back into the park, and the judge was ordering them to let people back into the park, responding by not letting people back into the park is odd.

The Mayor's office was likely planning to let them back in one everything had been thrown in the landfill. The judge is saying the city can't do that, they have to be allowed back in now. So the city's saying that the park is now closed, period, until this can all be "clarified."

273 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:51:51am

Gotta get to work, ill try to check in later.

274 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:52:21am

re: #262 Sergey Romanov

Some healthy bickering.

275 kirkspencer  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:52:26am

re: #263 Obdicut

Have they created a delegation to liaise with the Mayor's office, or the police, or anything of that nature? Honest question.

I don't know. I was pointing out they could as they've set precedence for such an action, but I don't know if they have.

(btw - rested, willing to continue last night's discussion if it matters, willing to let it lie if that's your preference.)

276 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:52:31am

re: #269 NJDhockeyfan

Why are you describing those as OWS plans? Most of the Occupy people have rejected direct action at the General Assembly meetings.

277 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:52:38am

24 hour rule regardless of which side you might be on. So yeah. Lots of clown cars and bumper cars until then.

278 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:53:17am

re: #274 Decatur Deb

Opinions vary on healthiness of scab-picking.

279 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:53:19am

re: #275 kirkspencer

I'm sorry, is this in reference to you claiming I was 'belittling' the Occupy people, or what?

280 darthstar  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:53:41am

Mornin' everyone...and especially to you, Ana...I see you got a new car...

281 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:53:51am

Looks like it's time to roll a steam turbine in here, the heat rising from this discussion could generate a considerable amount of environmentally friendly energy.

282 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:54:03am

re: #276 Obdicut

Why are you describing those as OWS plans? Most of the Occupy people have rejected direct action at the General Assembly meetings.

Aren't they part of the OWS crowd?

283 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:54:33am

re: #280 darthstar

Ooh. Slexy. /

284 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:54:37am

re: #271 McSpiff

You're missing half the Mayor's statement. He said they'd be allowed back without tents and personal affects. The Judge ruled they can't ban tents.

Ahhh.

Thanks, sorry.

It is kind of funny that the private property rights of the protesters are just being steamrolled and a lot of those who are opposed to them are generally fanatical about private property rights.

285 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:55:24am

re: #282 NJDhockeyfan

Aren't they part of the OWS crowd?

Yes. Part of. A minority. As I said, in general the Occupy people have voted against direct action. That's why the scuffle on Wall Street was so small; the vast majority of the Occupy people didn't want any part of it.

286 kirkspencer  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:55:47am

re: #279 Obdicut

I'm sorry, is this in reference to you claiming I was 'belittling' the Occupy people, or what?

Yes. And the opening remark on my part would be an apology for poor word choice on my part. Right concept, but on awakening this morning I realized I used a word with a semantic load that is incorrect for your stance.

287 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:55:47am

re: #278 Sergey Romanov

Opinions vary on healthiness of scab-picking.

Would hate to lose lizards, but blandness is a greater threat than a drunken brawl.

288 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:56:04am

re: #269 NJDhockeyfan

Resist austerity.

What in the blue fuck does that mean?

289 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:58:21am

re: #286 kirkspencer

Thanks. I stand by what I said, in so far as that when you use the words of King, it's respectful to note that the context of them matters. King's point that those who prefer order over justice are missing the point is a very good one, but King and the marchers had faced extreme violence, murder, and lots of other sanctions and harm.

290 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:58:28am

re: #288 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What in the blue fuck does that mean?

They don't want defense spending cut in the name of austerity budgeting.

291 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:58:32am

re: #287 Decatur Deb

Would hate to lose lizards, but blandness is a greater threat than a drunken brawl.

I doubt we're going to lose any lizards in the current iteration. This is a much more stable and civil discussion than some I've seen.

293 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 5:59:21am

re: #288 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What in the blue fuck does that mean?

To me, it means that the stupid austerity programs that are being put forth in Europe and, to an extent, here, are prolonging and deepening the recession.

Which I absolutely agree with. Austerity is a good personal virtue, it is a terrible policy for a government towards a suffering people.

294 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:02:03am

re: #293 Obdicut

To me, it means that the stupid austerity programs that are being put forth in Europe and, to an extent, here, are prolonging and deepening the recession.

Which I absolutely agree with. Austerity is a good personal virtue, it is a terrible policy for a government towards a suffering people.

It's a particularly shitty policy when the reasons behind it are asinine, i.e. "Cutting spending means government will be more efficient/responsible/'free.'"

295 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:03:07am

re: #288 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What in the blue fuck does that mean?

aus·ter·i·ty
noun
ȯ-ˈster-ə-tē, -ˈste-rə- also -ˈstir-ə-
plural aus·ter·i·ties

Definition of AUSTERITY
1: the quality or state of being austere
2a : an austere act, manner, or attitude b : an ascetic practice
3: enforced or extreme economy

Examples of AUSTERITY

the austerity of the design
The austerity of their lifestyle was surprising.
They lived through years of austerity after the war.
the austerities practiced by monks

296 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:04:39am

re: #295 NJDhockeyfan

Thank you, Captain Obvious.
/

297 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:04:49am

re: #294 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

It's a particularly shitty policy when the reasons behind it are asinine, i.e. "Cutting spending means government will be more efficient/responsible/'free.'"

In particular, as has been pointed out here frequently, now is exactly the wrong time to cut spending. Government spending in a recession helps reduce the damage and speed recovery, as it injects cash flow back into the economy. Basically, the government spends what the citizens cannot yet afford to spend, to keep the wheels turning until the consumers can pick up the slack.

298 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:05:20am

Felix of Nicosia (1715-1787)

The family was poor but very religious. As a young boy, Felix worked in the workshop of the shoemaker Giovanni Cavarelli, close to the Capuchin friary, and so he often had opportunities to visit the community, get to know the friars and admire their way of life. Like most Sicilian boys in those days, he never attended school. The more time he spent with the friars, the more strongly he felt drawn to their life: their joyful austerity, their liberating poverty, their penance and prayer, their charity and missionary spirit.

Ah yes. You too can be happily austere and joyfully impoverished.

299 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:06:58am

No tents allowed back in the park. Are they allowed to bring back their drums?

300 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:07:23am

Is there a Captain Oblivious?
/

301 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:07:33am

Actually. Austerity as in "austerity measures" we've been seeing in Greece, the UK, etc. In other word budget cuts leading to service cuts, education, health care, etc.

302 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:07:34am

re: #300 Sergey Romanov

Is there a Captain Oblivious?
/

There is now. ;)

303 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:08:05am

re: #297 thedopefishlives

In particular, as has been pointed out here frequently, now is exactly the wrong time to cut spending. Government spending in a recession helps reduce the damage and speed recovery, as it injects cash flow back into the economy. Basically, the government spends what the citizens cannot yet afford to spend, to keep the wheels turning until the consumers can pick up the slack.

True enough, but we're contending with a very insidious and dishonest philosophy, namely "Starve the Beast." Whose adherents believe that now is exactly the right time to be cutting spending, arguing that doing so is the "sign" that the economy is looking for before it will magically become healthy again.

304 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:08:22am

If austerity measures 'work', how come they've failed in every country that's tried them?

305 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:08:45am

re: #303 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

True enough, but we're contending with a very insidious and dishonest philosophy, namely "Starve the Beast." Whose adherents believe that now is exactly the right time to be cutting spending, arguing that doing so is the "sign" that the economy is looking for before it will magically become healthy again.

That makes exactly zero sense. I think my brain shriveled in on itself just trying to think about it.

306 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:10:18am

re: #301 Gus 802

Actually. Austerity as in "austerity measures" we've been seeing in Greece, the UK, etc. In other word budget cuts leading to service cuts, education, health care, etc.

Indeed, the scare campaign against defense spending cuts has already begun. One of the first stories I saw this morning when opening my web brower to Yahoo News was the DoD predicting apocalyptic scenarios if the austerity cuts kick in upon the Supercommittee's failure and the military being forced to tighten its belt. "Troop levels not seen since 1940!"

307 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:10:27am

So far the protesters have been pissed off but generally peaceful. I hope the anarchists don't see this as an opportunity to start destroying shit.

308 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:10:32am

re: #300 Sergey Romanov

Is there a Captain Oblivious?
/

We keep him in the oubilette.

309 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:11:04am

Personally, I'd rather have a white Bentley, a white fur coat, gold caps for my teeth and have two or three...

310 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:11:50am

re: #308 Decatur Deb

We keep him in the oubilette.

Alouette's oubliette?

311 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:12:16am

re: #309 Gus 802

Personally, I'd rather have a white Bentley, a white fur coat, gold caps for my teeth and have two or three...

britches?

312 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:12:24am

re: #305 thedopefishlives

That makes exactly zero sense. I think my brain shriveled in on itself just trying to think about it.

And that's on top of the arguments that go "We need less revenue, not more, because otherwise government will just spend it all!" as a way of arguing against tax increases to pay down the debt.

313 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:12:25am

re: #306 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Indeed, the scare campaign against defense spending cuts has already begun. One of the first stories I saw this morning when opening my web brower to Yahoo News was the DoD predicting apocalyptic scenarios if the austerity cuts kick in upon the Supercommittee's failure and the military being forced to tighten its belt. "Troop levels not seen since 1940!"

We're going to be invaded by the Chinlee! Right. We need less troops anyway because of technological advances.

314 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:12:30am

re: #301 Gus 802

Actually. Austerity as in "austerity measures" we've been seeing in Greece, the UK, etc. In other word budget cuts leading to service cuts, education, health care, etc.

It's been going on. Welfare reform under Clinton, Hartz-IV in Germany... all done under "Left" administrations, too... what Adbusters called "neoliberals".

315 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:12:45am

re: #311 Sergey Romanov

britches?

Si. I was trying to be polite. ;)

316 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:13:36am

re: #315 Gus 802

Si. I was trying to be polite. ;)

Good thing you didn't say "pantaloons". KT hates those./

317 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:13:59am

re: #312 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

And that's on top of the arguments that go "We need less revenue, not more, because otherwise government will just spend it all!" as a way of arguing against tax increases to pay down the debt.

Why don't we turn this around on them: Okay, so, you want government to have less revenue because otherwise they'll spend it all. Alright, fine, we're arbitrarily cutting your paycheck in half, because otherwise you'll spend it all. There, how's that?

318 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:14:14am

re: #307 NJDhockeyfan

So far the protesters have been pissed off but generally peaceful. I hope the anarchists don't see this as an opportunity to start destroying shit.

No, I fear the Tea Party will see this as an opportunity to go destroy shit and then blame it on OWS. You know, classic false flag operation.
//

319 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:14:19am

re: #306 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Indeed, the scare campaign against defense spending cuts has already begun. One of the first stories I saw this morning when opening my web brower to Yahoo News was the DoD predicting apocalyptic scenarios if the austerity cuts kick in upon the Supercommittee's failure and the military being forced to tighten its belt. "Troop levels not seen since 1940!"

In 1939 the NYC police forces were larger than the US Army. The last two generations have adapted nicely to a historical 'abnormal'.

320 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:15:36am

re: #315 Gus 802

Si. I was trying to be polite. ;)

Youtube Video
321 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:16:24am

re: #313 Gus 802

We're going to be invaded by the Chinlee! Right. We need less troops anyway because of technological advances.

Problem is that those technological marvels cost more than the ones they're replacing, while the troops who operate them have to be even more educated.

322 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:17:46am

re: #317 thedopefishlives

Why don't we turn this around on them: Okay, so, you want government to have less revenue because otherwise they'll spend it all. Alright, fine, we're arbitrarily cutting your paycheck in half, because otherwise you'll spend it all. There, how's that?

My favorite response is to ask them if they don't trust the people they're electing not to spend the increased revenue instead of use it pay down the debt. If they don't, then why are they supporting them to begin with?

323 darthstar  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:19:33am

re: #307 NJDhockeyfan

So far the protesters have been pissed off but generally peaceful. I hope the anarchists don't see this as an opportunity to start destroying shit.

Yes you do.

324 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:20:05am

Live feed from NYC

325 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:21:11am

re: #322 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

My favorite response is to ask them if they don't trust the people they're electing not to spend the increased revenue instead of use it pay down the debt. If they don't, then why are they supporting them to begin with?

Part of the "Government is Ebil" doctrine is that Washington residence turns the most virtuous rustics into self-seeking spendthrifts.

326 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:26:15am

re: #325 Decatur Deb

Part of the "Government is Ebil" doctrine is that Washington residence turns the most virtuous rustics into self-seeking spendthrifts.

The thing is, there is an element of truth to this. Not universally, obviously, but we've all seen cases where putting someone otherwise innocuous in a position of power results in something completely unanticipated.

327 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:28:13am

re: #326 thedopefishlives

The thing is, there is an element of truth to this. Not universally, obviously, but we've all seen cases where putting someone otherwise innocuous in a position of power results in something completely unanticipated.

I doubt many fiscal virgins make it to DC.

328 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:31:58am

re: #327 Decatur Deb

I doubt many fiscal virgins make it to DC.

Oh, I do too. I'm just saying, it's not like their fear is completely unfounded. Taken so far off the deep end that they're likely to get crushed by the water pressure, sure, but there's a grain of truth to the notion.

329 darthstar  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:35:34am

re: #327 Decatur Deb

I doubt many fiscal virgins make it to DC.

Then again, when you listen to Republicans talk about the economy you have to wonder if any of them have ever had to balance a checkbook.

330 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:36:56am

re: #307 NJDhockeyfan

The human microphone thing at Occupy meetings is kind of interesting. That and the hand signals they use. Direct democracy indeed.

331 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:40:40am

Heh. My wife is always a bit of a nightmare to get out the door, but this morning was classic.

Along with generally running late, she decided to check whether her to-go Bodum mug was tightly sealed by turning it upside down. The problem was she'd left it completely open. So the answer was no. No, it was not completely sealed. So all of her tea poured out onto the counter.

332 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:40:58am

Cripes. Was looking for some flight safety information and I run into some dweebish site for a Jason Castro. I'm like "who the feck is Jason Castro?" Apparently some pretty boy singer that won something on American Idol.

333 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:42:03am

re: #331 Obdicut

lolol

334 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:42:11am

Dog riot--BBL

335 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:42:28am

re: #330 Rightwingconspirator

The human microphone thing at Occupy meetings is kind of interesting. That and the hand signals they use. Direct democracy indeed.

I haven't been paying much attention to this stuff. Are the hand signals adapted from what is used by the deaf or anything like that? (I saw a protest/gathering once in DC by a group of deaf students from Howard University and noted that they had various ways of expressing "applause", "boo", etc. via hand motions.)

336 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:43:09am

re: #334 Decatur Deb

Dog riot--BBL

Come back after you've used all measures necessary to quell the riot.

337 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:43:51am

I guess this was mentioned in the pages...

Bishops Open ‘Religious Liberty’ Drive

BALTIMORE — The nation’s Roman Catholic bishops opened a new front in their fight against abortion and same-sex marriage on Monday, recasting their opposition as a struggle for “religious liberty” against a government and a culture that are infringing on the church’s rights.

The bishops have expressed increasing exasperation as more states have legalized same-sex marriage, and the Justice Department has refused to go to bat for the Defense of Marriage Act, legislation that established the definition of marriage as between a man and a woman.

“We see in our culture a drive to neuter religion,” Archbishop Timothy M. Dolan of New York, president of the bishops conference, said in a news conference Monday at the bishops’ annual meeting in Baltimore. He added that “well-financed, well-oiled sectors” were trying “to push religion back into the sacristy.”

Archbishop Dolan also came prepared to answer questions about the sexual-abuse scandal at Penn State University, which has reminded so many observers of the Catholic Church’s own abuse scandal. He said that the accusations against a former university football coach were a reminder that sexual abuse is a universal problem that affects most institutions...

Yes dear bishops. You have the liberty to be clueless and archaic bigots. Just keep your HOBBY to yourself please thank you.

338 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:44:02am

re: #336 Sergey Romanov

Come back after you've used all measures necessary to quell the riot.

I imagine pepper spray would be very effective on animals with a highly developed and delicate sense of smell.

339 darthstar  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:44:28am

re: #334 Decatur Deb

Dog riot--BBL

The man is cracking down on occupy front porch!

340 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:45:15am

re: #338 oaktree

I imagine pepper spray would be very effective on animals with a highly developed and delicate sense of smell.

Those dog hippies should get a haircut and a job instead of occupying kitchen.

341 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:45:45am

re: #337 Gus 802

I guess this was mentioned in the pages...


Bishops Open ‘Religious Liberty’ Drive


Yes dear bishops. You have the liberty to be clueless and archaic bigots. Just keep your HOBBY to yourself please thank you.

Heh. Invocation of the MBF by the Catholic Church as this scandal comes out. Never saw that coming.

342 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:45:59am

re: #339 darthstar

The man is cracking down on occupy front porch!

If you ever call the cops to come to your house make sure to put the dog in a room or pen.

343 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:47:05am

re: #335 oaktree

I haven't been paying much attention to this stuff. Are the hand signals adapted from what is used by the deaf or anything like that? (I saw a protest/gathering once in DC by a group of deaf students from Howard University and noted that they had various ways of expressing "applause", "boo", etc. via hand motions.)

I don't know where this came from. But I can attest it really works at the general assemblies. I'd love to see it at town meetings with congressmen etc. The speaker gets immediate non verbal feedback. And the human mic repeat the speaker thing prevents rude shout outs or interruptions.

344 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:50:39am

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. What news to wake up to this morning that the NYPD came in and cleared out Zuccotti Park. While there were about 70 arrests, they were mostly for resisting arrest (such as tying themselves together or to trees). The park has now been power washed and cleaned, but the protesters have moved on to Foley Square and possibly on to Washington Square or Union Square.

Whether they'll return to Zuccotti Park is an open question. A judge has issued an order that allows the protesters to return to the park - including staying on with tents.

So, why did this take place now? I suspect is has to do with the planned protests on Thursday, where protesters were hoping to close down the NYSE and Wall Street itself; the protesters in Zuccotti have largely been peaceful, but when the protests march on to different locations, there have been several notable incidents involving arrests and reports of brutality (such as on the Brooklyn Bridge, marches along Broadway, or sit-ins at Wall Street itself).

Frankly, I think that it might have been better to leave the protesters in place at Zuccotti Park than to disperse them - making it more difficult to deal with smaller groups that could potentially cause mayhem (and there are fringe groups who have used OWS as cover for their antics).

Still, it's interesting that the OWS movement in Zuccotti Park numbered all of about 200 hardcore protesters who have hunkered down there. The press coverage of this has definitely been disproportionate to the numbers, but that's a testament to the protesters and general anger and angst toward the horrible economic situation facing millions of people around the country.

345 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:51:14am

stupid facebook is stupid

[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

Rushdie's dispute with Facebook began after he asked to be allowed to use his middle name Salman - the one he is known by across the world.

But Facebook, which has strict real name policies, had insisted on Ahmed - the novelist's first name.

346 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:51:30am

More from the land of make believe. I don't know if this was mentioned:

High court declines to hear W.Va. immunization case
By The Associated Press
November 14, 2011

CHARLESTON, W.Va. -- The U.S. Supreme Court has refused to hear a West Virginia mother's challenge to the state's child immunization law.

The Rutherford Institute in Charlottesville, Va., said Monday that the justices declined to review Jennifer Workman's case.

Last March, a three-judge panel of the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond, Va., unanimously rejected Workman's claim that the immunization mandate violated her religious rights. The full appeals court refused to review the case.

Workman sued West Virginia and Mingo County health and education officials after Lenore Pre-K to 8 School refused to admit her daughter without vaccinations against childhood diseases. Along with the religious objections, Workman said she was concerned that the vaccinations would cause her daughter to develop autism.

347 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:53:13am

re: #345 Sergey Romanov

But they can't get rid of the porno images/links that have been cropping up everywhere on the site.

348 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:53:50am

re: #346 Gus 802

More from the land of make believe. I don't know if this was mentioned:

High court declines to hear W.Va. immunization case
By The Associated Press
November 14, 2011

Ooh, that's gotta sting.

349 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:54:13am

re: #344 lawhawk

FYI...a protester has been live streaming this morning. They are currently heading back to Zuccotti.

350 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:57:10am

re: #348 thedopefishlives

Ooh, that's gotta sting.

(ORDER LIST: 565 U.S.) [PDF]
MONDAY, NOVEMBER 14, 2011

CERTIORARI DENIED

11-380 WORKMAN, JENNIFER V. MINGO COUNTY BOARD OF EDUCATION

351 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:57:24am

re: #346 Gus 802

More from the land of make believe. I don't know if this was mentioned:

High court declines to hear W.Va. immunization case
By The Associated Press
November 14, 2011

"Religious objections"? Okay, that's a new one on me.

352 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:57:27am

re: #344 lawhawk

How do you pronounce it - zukoti or tsukoti?

353 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:57:40am

re: #348 thedopefishlives

The decision only affects the 4th Circuit, which means that other courts could rule in the other direction. If there's a split between circuit rulings (say for example that the 8th Circuit rules that a woman in a similar case can reject immunizations on religious grounds - so you'd have a split in authority on the subject), then the Supreme Court may end up hearing the case so as to bring a consistent rule on how to deal with the issue. The court may simply be waiting for another case to hear on the subject although I think that they really did mean to support the upholding of the vaccination rule - it doesn't infringe on the woman's religious rights.

354 makeitstopghazi  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:58:32am

re: #344 lawhawk

While there were about 70 arrests...

Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg said in a news conference that there had been roughly 200 arrests in and around Zuccotti Park as police moved in to clear protesters and their belongings overnight.

---

I saw the 70 number earlier, too. Looks like they revised up.

355 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 6:59:04am

re: #352 Sergey Romanov

Zuccotti Park is pronounced Zu-koti

356 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:01:31am

BTW, Mrs. Lawhawk has dealt with the judge who issued the order. Let's just say that she's not entirely surprised at the decision or impressed with her either.

357 prairiefire  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:01:41am

zoo-kini

358 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:01:52am

re: #355 lawhawk

Zuccotti Park is pronounced Zu-koti

Sounds like a place to set up shop and sell deep-fried zucchini.

359 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:02:37am

re: #357 prairiefire

zoo-kini

re: #358 oaktree

Sounds like a place to set up shop and sell deep-fried zucchini.

heh

360 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:03:47am

re: #355 lawhawk

Zuccotti Park is pronounced Zu-koti

Named for Brookfield's John E. Zuccotti.

Political contributions.

361 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:04:29am

re: #358 oaktree

Well, before the OWS movement, you could find zucchini sold there at the Green Market that operated regularly from the park (they were forced to relocate to near City Hall). Food vendors had also been moved from the park, which regularly serviced office workers and construction workers from the WTC projects.

362 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:05:54am

Has anyone heard any sort of official confirmation that the NYPD kept the press out of the area?

363 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:06:05am

re: #360 Gus 802

Yup; it used to be named Liberty Plaza, but renamed for Zuccotti Park after renovations in 2006. A lot of people still call it by the old name.

364 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:06:26am

Amanda Palmer: Ukulele Anthem

365 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:07:58am

re: #362 McSpiff

Has anyone heard any sort of official confirmation that the NYPD kept the press out of the area?

I doubt it. I saw a couple of live TV interviews from Zuccotti Park this morning from the local New York stations.

366 makeitstopghazi  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:10:07am

re: #362 McSpiff

Has anyone heard any sort of official confirmation that the NYPD kept the press out of the area?

He (Bloomberg) also said that the police had kept members of the media at a distance. The move appeared to limit the amount of footage and photos available early Tuesday morning.

367 prairiefire  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:10:30am

re: #364 000G

Amanda Palmer: Ukulele Anthem

I follow Neil Gaiman on Facebook and he's been posting photos of their tour. They are a riot. He just posted that they are home from the tour.

368 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:10:41am

re: #365 NJDhockeyfan

Via Gothamist:

During our coverage of the eviction of the Occupy Wall Street protesters early this morning, a NPR reporter, a New York Times reporter, and a city councilmember were arrested. Airspace in Lower Manhattan was closed to CBS and NBC news choppers by the NYPD, a New York Post reporter was allegedly put in a "choke hold" by the police, a NBC reporter's press pass was confiscated and a large group of reporters and protesters were hit with pepper spray. According to the eviction notice, the park was merely "cleaned and restored for its intended use." If this is the case, why were so few people permitted to view it?

Then again, with nearly everyone with a smart phone and video capabilities, viewing the scene is only a matter of time before those videos get uploaded and posted for all to see.

369 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:11:10am

re: #365 NJDhockeyfan

I doubt it. I saw a couple of live TV interviews from Zuccotti Park this morning from the local New York stations.

I think the confusion comes from the the hysterical reports from the protesters. Everyone has a camera and suddenly claims they're press when the cops show up. There seems to be plenty of news coverage so I don't think there's any sort of journalistic oppression.

370 prairiefire  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:12:26am

Daniel Drezner on Herman Cain:[Link: drezner.foreignpolicy.com...]

371 makeitstopghazi  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:12:37am

re: #369 Killgore Trout

I think the confusion comes from the the hysterical reports from the protesters. Everyone has a camera and suddenly claims they're press when the cops show up. There seems to be plenty of news coverage so I don't think there's any sort of journalistic oppression.

See my #366 and Lawhawk's #368.

372 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:14:19am

re: #369 Killgore Trout

I think the confusion comes from the the hysterical reports from the protesters. Everyone has a camera and suddenly claims they're press when the cops show up. There seems to be plenty of news coverage so I don't think there's any sort of journalistic oppression.

Not exactly. Reports were coming out via CBS this morning (2-3 am) that their news crews and helicopters were being kept away.

373 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:14:29am

re: #366 makeitstop

He (Bloomberg) also said that the police had kept members of the media at a distance. The move appeared to limit the amount of footage and photos available early Tuesday morning.

A little creative interpretation from nyt.....

He also said that the police had kept members of the media at a distance. The move appeared to limit the amount of footage and photos available early Tuesday morning.

Their supporting link goes to.....

"Police Department routinely keeps members of the press off to the side when they're in the middle of a police action" - @MikeBloomberg

Heh

374 makeitstopghazi  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:15:50am

re: #373 Killgore Trout

A little creative interpretation from nyt...

Their supporting link goes to...

Heh

Yeah, they're obviously lying./

375 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:16:44am

everyone is a journalist now... #ows

376 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:18:51am

re: #367 prairiefire

I follow Neil Gaiman on Facebook and he's been posting photos of their tour. They are a riot. He just posted that they are home from the tour.

Amanda is an old friend of mine. I am always happy to be able to advertise her stuff.

I remember many, many years ago, when I was a troubled teen of sorts and she was over in Germany for a while. When we said goodbye, she handed me a note. It read: "Dear 000G, don't worry so much. Look around you: What is happening right now?"

377 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:27:49am

re: #374 makeitstop

Yeah, they're obviously lying./

It's obviously standard procedure. In every event police show up to (car accident, fight, bank robbery etc) the cops try to seperate onlookers and press from people involved in the incident. It allows emergency crews to work and prevents members of the public and press from getting caught up in the action. It's common sense and happens hundreds of times every day in every city. It's nothing sinister.

378 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:33:04am

re: #374 makeitstop

Yeah, they're obviously lying./

Also check out the "global revolution" live stream link the NYT posted. It's some produced video montage of an evil banker giving orders to the police. The text crawl is a hoot.

379 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:36:26am

re: #377 Killgore Trout

4 blocks away is standard in NYC at 2am? Shutting down subway stations? Man, that city must shutdown every time there is a bar brawl.

380 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:37:02am

Plenty of MSM press photographers in and around the park
[Link: www.daylife.com...]

381 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:37:55am

re: #379 McSpiff

4 blocks away is standard in NYC at 2am? Shutting down subway stations? Man, that city must shutdown every time there is a bar brawl.

See #380. There is plenty of press in the park taking pictures.

382 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:38:03am

re: #380 Killgore Trout

Plenty of MSM press photographers in and around the park
[Link: www.daylife.com...]

Link doesn't work here, work proxy tends to be picky. Are those from the nighttime raid?

383 reine.de.tout  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:38:25am

re: #378 Killgore Trout

Also check out the "global revolution" live stream link the NYT posted. It's some produced video montage of an evil banker giving orders to the police. The text crawl is a hoot.

That's a very professionally done video, looks like to me.

384 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:41:10am

Looks like the City of New York, Bloomberg and the NYPD are in contempt of a court order.

385 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:41:27am

re: #383 reine.de.tout

That's a very professionally done video, looks like to me.

At first I though they may have lifted to footage from a movie or something but it seems to be their own production. Very well done.

386 makeitstopghazi  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:42:05am

re: #379 McSpiff

4 blocks away is standard in NYC at 2am? Shutting down subway stations? Man, that city must shutdown every time there is a bar brawl.

Yeah, that sounds a little excessive for the time of day.

The no-fly zone was a nice touch.

387 Donna Ballard  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:42:05am

Good Morning Everyone, Happy Tuesday to you all! I see the occupy movements are being shaken up and stirred. I was kinda wondering when the cities of occupation would loose patience and start evicting people. I'm not really surprised with whats going down.

388 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:43:28am

@AlanColmes Alan Colmes
Occupy Protesters Back By Court Order [Link: colm.es...] #p2

Bummer man. //

389 Donna Ballard  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:44:37am

re: #384 Gus 802

Looks like the City of New York, Bloomberg and the NYPD are in contempt of a court order.

Why am I not surprised? Again?

390 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:45:22am

re: #389 Dragon_Lady

Why am I not surprised? Again?

Bloomberg's the mayor?

391 iossarian  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:45:40am

re: #388 Gus 802

@AlanColmes Alan Colmes
Occupy Protesters Back By Court Order [Link: colm.es...] #p2

Bummer man. //

Ha ha ha OWS is a piddling insignificant movement that will go nowhere and about which I am not at all obsessed. To prove it I will now make an average of 10-20 posts per thread trying to discredit the protestors.

392 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:48:33am

re: #391 iossarian

Ha ha ha OWS is a piddling insignificant movement that will go nowhere and about which I am not at all obsessed. To prove it I will now make an average of 10-20 posts per thread trying to discredit the protestors.

See above for more information on the court order including the judge who made the decision.

393 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:48:34am

Toronto close down soon coming: Police hand eviction notices to Occupy Toronto protesters: reports

394 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:49:35am

Dead thread hero defending Cain:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

395 Donna Ballard  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:50:27am

re: #391 iossarian

Ha ha ha OWS is a piddling insignificant movement that will go nowhere and about which I am not at all obsessed. To prove it I will now make an average of 10-20 posts per thread trying to discredit the protestors.

Um, if its so piddling and insignificant why are we discussing it in such detail? You know, picking it apart, complaining about it and stuff like that? I don't think its so piddling and insignificant, I went down to the Occupy LA with RWC and they seem organized and sincere to me. I think the real problem is the Anarchists have infiltrated to core movement and taken over. When ever we get a large movement those idiots seem to come out of the wood work and screw everything up to a point that the original organizers don't recognizes the original movement.

396 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:50:52am

re: #393 Killgore Trout

Toronto close down soon coming: Police hand eviction notices to Occupy Toronto protesters: reports

I guarantee this will be poorly handled in the extreme. Mayor Rob Ford has called 911 because a famous canadian faux-news showed up at his house. And then berated the 911 dispatcher when the police did not arrive soon enough. That's one of dozens of incidents. If anyone can screw this up, its Rob Ford.

397 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:51:29am

re: #232 Gus 802

Here's the judge! Cue the splodey heads.

Justice Lucy Billings
Candidate for the
Supreme Court
First Judicial District
(New York)

Personal Statement

Justice Lucy Billings prepared for the Supreme Court as a lawyer for 25 years at the ACLU National Headquarters and as Litigation Director in Legal Services, handling complex civil rights litigation to enforce new rights for minority, disabled, and low-income persons. She forged new legal remedies by litigating issues not previously addressed in housing, environmental justice, including preventing lead poisoning, public health, child welfare, education, and employment. In 12 years as a judge, she has presided over complicated, high profile cases. They include unlawful attempts to prohibit street artists from selling their work, State agencies' unlawful procedures for collecting debts, construction site disasters, sexual abuse of schoolchildren, and discriminatory firing of employees. She has written over 200 published decisions. Examples include prohibiting unlawful government practices, recognizing same sex marriages, finding new avenues for recovery by injured construction workers and pothole victims, reforming the standards and procedures for issuing business licenses and granting and revoking parole, and ridding the public markets of corruption and unsanitary conditions.

Party Membership - Democrat

Party Line - Democrat

398 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:52:45am

re: #384 Gus 802

Not exactly; it's a temporary restraining order. We'll see the next step - which likely involves the City and these attorneys from the NLG/ACLU going over the judge's head pretty quickly.

The judge has no problem granting the TRO but ignores the owner's (Brookfield's) rights to their own property. Doubt this will be the last we hear about the legalities of the case.

FWIW, the police tower that is at the corner of Church and Liberty was hard wired into the street by ConEd a week or two ago - suggesting that they were there for the long haul;

399 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:53:07am

re: #396 McSpiff

I guarantee this will be poorly handled in the extreme. Mayor Rob Ford has called 911 because a famous canadian faux-news showed up at his house. And then berated the 911 dispatcher when the police did not arrive soon enough. That's one of dozens of incidents. If anyone can screw this up, its Rob Ford.

Let's hope it goes smoothly. I think there have been enough other cities able to clear OWS camps with minimal conflict. Let's hope police are sharing info and tactics.

400 makeitstopghazi  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:53:35am

re: #395 Dragon_Lady

I think the real problem is the Anarchists have infiltrated to core movement and taken over.

I don't think that's actually happened (at least not in NYC - LA may be different).

I think the perception of Anarchists taking over has been pretty successfully created through a drum circle of negative news stories, so dutifully reported here.

401 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:53:45am

re: #394 iceweasel

Dead thread hero defending Cain:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Morning {ice}.
Ah, good. Something worthy of turning up the flamethrower. Today's flavor, in honor of the current topic of discussion (OWS), is New York Pastrami.

402 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:54:26am

re: #398 lawhawk

Not exactly; it's a temporary restraining order. We'll see the next step - which likely involves the City and these attorneys from the NLG/ACLU going over the judge's head pretty quickly.

The judge has no problem granting the TRO but ignores the owner's (Brookfield's) rights to their own property. Doubt this will be the last we hear about the legalities of the case.

FWIW, the police tower that is at the corner of Church and Liberty was hard wired into the street by ConEd a week or two ago - suggesting that they were there for the long haul;

Sure. Gotta wait.

403 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:55:33am

Gets worse!

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

404 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:55:51am

re: #400 makeitstop

In terms of actual violence is acceptable anarchists, I met exactly one out of the 90 people I interviewed down there.

There are a lot of ideological non-voters who might even consider themselves politically anarchists, but those are entirely different than the black-hat break-shit anarchists.

405 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:55:52am

re: #399 Killgore Trout

Let's hope it goes smoothly. I think there have been enough other cities able to clear OWS camps with minimal conflict. Let's hope police are sharing info and tactics.

Toronto Police Service have a pretty poor record at clearing protests. Honestly, that's one city where I think it'd be best to just wait for winter.

406 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:56:49am

re: #398 lawhawk

Not exactly; it's a temporary restraining order. We'll see the next step - which likely involves the City and these attorneys from the NLG/ACLU going over the judge's head pretty quickly.

The judge has no problem granting the TRO but ignores the owner's (Brookfield's) rights to their own property. Doubt this will be the last we hear about the legalities of the case.

FWIW, the police tower that is at the corner of Church and Liberty was hard wired into the street by ConEd a week or two ago - suggesting that they were there for the long haul;

I was just trying to figure out the court order and found this....
Hasty court order allows Occupy protesters to return after police sweep

Hours later, the National Lawyers Guild obtained a court order allowing the protesters to return with their tents to the park, where they have camped for two months. The guild said the injunction prevents the city from enforcing park rules on the protesters.

That seems odd. The National LAwyers guild might the lying about their court order and the press is just reporting their characterization.
It seems odd that a court would rule that the rules of the park no longer apply.

407 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:57:22am

The NYCLU is watching...

[Link: twitter.com...]

408 iossarian  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:58:13am

re: #395 Dragon_Lady

I "forgot" my sarc tag above.

re: #399 Killgore Trout

Let's hope it goes smoothly. I think there have been enough other cities able to clear OWS camps with minimal conflict. Let's hope police are sharing info and tactics.

Schedule for police cooperation workshop:

8:30 - Your nightstick, your friend
9:00 - Pepper spray: poblano or jalapeno?
9:30 - Break (with donuts!)

etc.

409 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 7:59:59am

re: #407 Gus 802

Some occupiers making nypd style announcements to cops: nypd, ur in violation of court order, please move out of our way

Heh. Silly protesters. Breaking the law is bad when they do it. Cops are allowed to break the law, arrest people after having been told by a judge the arrest is unlawful, etc. Different rules apply.

/

Seriously, the cops aren't the ones responsible for interpreting the court order, or their instructions. Well, maybe the chief is, but in general this is square on the mayor.

410 Donna Ballard  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:00:47am

re: #400 makeitstop

I don't think that's actually happened (at least not in NYC - LA may be different).

I think the perception of Anarchists taking over has been pretty successfully created through a drum circle of negative news stories, so dutifully reported here.

After a while you learn what they look like, they like to dress hippieish or very street creatureish and wear peace signs that have been torn up, burned and have backpacks that the take with them every where the go. When we had the "Day without an Immigrant" march in downtown LA they were all over the place the day before and blended in with the crowd very quickly hyping up the fever of the crowd. They love to incite anger and disharmony everywhere the go making things go from peaceful to ugly very quickly. Yeah, Portland probably has more than a few of them, and Occupy LA seems to have attracted them too, but don't underestimate them being in N.Y.

411 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:01:24am

re: #406 Killgore Trout

No, what the court is referring to is the changes that Brookfield Properties made to park rules after the protests began. They can't impose the new regulations (designed to thwart overnight activities in the park) that were put in place after the protests began.

It's a return of park rules to the way the rules were enforced/written prior to the protests.

I get that part of the ruling, but Brookfield may still be allowed to change the rules. Whether they can change the rules as they did (and not requiring public comment or other notification requirements) is a legal matter based on how the legal documents forming the park were written. That's likely part of the ongoing process put in motion.

412 makeitstopghazi  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:01:58am

re: #398 lawhawk

The judge has no problem granting the TRO but ignores the owner's (Brookfield's) rights to their own property.

But doesn't Zuccotti exist in some weird 'neither fish nor flesh' status - property of Brookfield, but 'willed' to the city in return for letting Brookfield build more stories onto one of their properties in the area?

I remember reading that somewhere, just can't remember where.

413 Donna Ballard  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:02:14am

re: #408 iossarian

I "forgot" my sarc tag above.

re: #399 Killgore Trout

Schedule for police cooperation workshop:

8:30 - Your nightstick, your friend
9:00 - Pepper spray: poblano or jalapeno?
9:30 - Break (with donuts!)

etc.

Oh. Okay, you're forgiven. I tend to take things a bit too literally, bad on my part I know.

414 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:02:49am

re: #413 Dragon_Lady

Oh. Okay, you're forgiven. I tend to take things a bit too literally, bad on my part I know.

I'm flying high on the backs of eagles.

/Not literally.

415 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:02:51am

re: #407 Gus 802

Watchful commies!

Image: CDU.jpg

("All paths of Marxism lead to Moskau – Thus: CDU!", anti-soviet campaign poster for the federal elections in Germany 1953 by the conservative Christian-Democratic Union)

416 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:03:19am

re: #412 makeitstop

But doesn't Zuccotti exist in some weird 'neither fish nor flesh' status - property of Brookfield, but 'willed to the city in return for letting Brookfield build more stories onto one of their properties in the area?

I remember reading that somewhere, just can't remember where.

Yup, legally obligated to give reasonable public access or something similar.

417 iossarian  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:04:41am

re: #414 Obdicut

I'm flying high on the backs of eagles.

/Not literally.

Ha. I love misuse of the word "literally".

"My head literally exploded."

"I was literally peeing myself with excitement."

418 Donna Ballard  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:05:17am

re: #414 Obdicut

I'm flying high on the backs of eagles.

/Not literally.

You're so cute Obdi! ;-)

419 Interesting Times  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:05:23am

re: #403 Gus 802

Gets worse!

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

171 comments since 2005? The sock stench is insufferably suffocating.

420 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:06:29am

re: #412 makeitstop

Yes. Zuccotti Park is a public/private park, and special rules apply. The park was created so as to give the builder the right to build the adjacent skyscraper higher than its original zoning allowed. There are a couple hundred of these kinds of plazas/parks - that give public space in exchange for taller skyscrapers. The rules associated with each of the parks is different since the building/owners can adjust rules. They can limit access to daytime only, dusk/dawn, types of gatherings etc., but Zuccotti Park is a different creature because in most other instances, the parks/plazas are physically next to the building in question. Here, the park is separated from the building by a physical street (Liberty). Access is much more open and it functions more as a proper park than a plaza to the Liberty Place building.

421 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:07:24am

re: #419 publicityStunted

171 comments since 2005? The sock stench is insufferably suffocating.

time for Stinky to do the laundry!

422 Donna Ballard  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:08:04am

re: #420 lawhawk

Yes. Zuccotti Park is a public/private park, and special rules apply. The park was created so as to give the builder the right to build the adjacent skyscraper higher than its original zoning allowed. There are a couple hundred of these kinds of plazas/parks - that give public space in exchange for taller skyscrapers. The rules associated with each of the parks is different since the building/owners can adjust rules. They can limit access to daytime only, dusk/dawn, types of gatherings etc., but Zuccotti Park is a different creature because in most other instances, the parks/plazas are physically next to the building in question. Here, the park is separated from the building by a physical street (Liberty). Access is much more open and it functions more as a proper park than a plaza to the Liberty Place building.

Lawhawk, I can always count on you to teach me something new everyday. Thank you!

423 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:08:52am

re: #417 iossarian

My head figuratively literally exploded.

424 Donna Ballard  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:09:46am

re: #423 Sergey Romanov

My head figuratively literally exploded.

Owww! Just thinking about that makes mine hurt!

425 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:10:02am

re: #417 iossarian

Ha. I love misuse of the word "literally".

It's a figurative use of the word, so it's okay.

426 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:10:39am

re: #395 Dragon_Lady

It's worth remembering that the General Assembly and Occupy leadership is not empowered to remove other protesters who are unlike or more extreme in tactics than OWS. Like say Code Pink, or Anarchists. And more to the point-Neither is anyone else! It's a first amendment free for all. At most the police will physically divide protesters from counter protesters. But nobody is forced to depart except when arrested. So OWS in whatever city is stuck with whoever shows up. And will get branded with their antics.

427 makeitstopghazi  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:11:06am

re: #420 lawhawk

Yes. Zuccotti Park is a public/private park, and special rules apply. The park was created so as to give the builder the right to build the adjacent skyscraper higher than its original zoning allowed. There are a couple hundred of these kinds of plazas/parks - that give public space in exchange for taller skyscrapers. The rules associated with each of the parks is different since the building/owners can adjust rules. They can limit access to daytime only, dusk/dawn, types of gatherings etc., but Zuccotti Park is a different creature because in most other instances, the parks/plazas are physically next to the building in question. Here, the park is separated from the building by a physical street (Liberty). Access is much more open and it functions more as a proper park than a plaza to the Liberty Place building.

Thanks for the explanation.

Now, a follow-up question - is this special status something that could be exploited by an enterprising attorney to circumvent 'normal' park rules, or is Zuccotti subject to the same rules as any other NYC park?

If there's a potential loophole waiting to be exploited, then OWS would probably gravitate to similarly classified parks in the city if need be.

428 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:11:28am

@AlecBaldwin Alec Baldwin
Bloomberg's NY is no place for the 1st amendment. Bloomberg serves Wall Street, now and forever. And Wall Street cannot handle free speech.

429 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:12:03am

Once this is over and done with though the right wing will go back to hating Mayor Bloomberg.

430 Donna Ballard  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:13:24am

re: #426 Rightwingconspirator

It's worth remembering that the general Assembly and Occupy leadership is not empowered to remove other protesters who are unlike or more extreme in tactics than OWS. Like say Code Pink, or Anarchists. And more to the point-Neither is anyone else! It's a first amendment free for all. At most the police will physically divide protesters from counter protesters. But nobody is forced to depart except when arrested. So OWS in whatever city is stuck with whoever shows up. And will get branded with their antics.

Yeah, you mentioned that last night, I just thought it was worth posting my opinion on what I've been seeing during this whole thing. Glad to see you made it to work in good time. ;-)

431 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:13:57am

And if you're NYC, and building developers, looking at what happened at Zuccotti Park will cause a re-evaluation of these kind of public/private parks going forward, and we may well see fewer of these public spaces, or far more restrictive uses of these public spaces to prevent the kind of encampment as seen at Zuccotti Park.

In other words, we might see a whole lot more explicit restrictions on hours and what kind of activities can be held at such places.

Note too that NYC public parks are generally considered open from dawn to dusk, and that visitation after dusk is in violation of city law and punishable by a fine. It's usually overlooked by cops who are looking for other crimes to deal with so it's low on the priority list, but there it is.

432 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:14:30am

re: #430 Dragon_Lady

Yeah, you mentioned that last night, I just thought it was worth posting my opinion on what I've been seeing during this whole thing. Glad to see you made it to work in good time. ;-)

You two are so cute. :)

434 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:16:55am

re: #411 lawhawk

No, what the court is referring to is the changes that Brookfield Properties made to park rules after the protests began. They can't impose the new regulations (designed to thwart overnight activities in the park) that were put in place after the protests began.

It's a return of park rules to the way the rules were enforced/written prior to the protests.

I get that part of the ruling, but Brookfield may still be allowed to change the rules. Whether they can change the rules as they did (and not requiring public comment or other notification requirements) is a legal matter based on how the legal documents forming the park were written. That's likely part of the ongoing process put in motion.

Ok, thanks.

435 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:17:37am

re: #431 lawhawk

Note too that NYC public parks are generally considered open from dawn to dusk, and that visitation after dusk is in violation of city law and punishable by a fine. It's usually overlooked by cops who are looking for other crimes to deal with so it's low on the priority list, but there it is.

I think it's 1-5 AM they're closed, but of course, they're not not really. Plenty of people go through Prospect, Central, and other parks after 1.

Selective enforcement isn't a good thing.

436 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:17:51am

re: #431 lawhawk

Certainly enough to give them a pretext if they really wanted to bring down the hammer.

437 Donna Ballard  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:18:33am

re: #432 iceweasel

You two are so cute. :)

A good photographers assistant has to stand up for what she sees, you know. Otherwise he'll just walk over my opinions and I get to fade into the woodwork, which is just not in my personality profile. ;-) Just ask him how many times I've smacked him on the back of the head lately! HA!

438 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:19:26am

re: #432 iceweasel

Greetings from Occupied LA Ice.

439 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:20:06am

Alright. I need to focus on work.

See y'all.

440 iossarian  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:20:18am

Take that, Swedish peacenik hippie leftist bastards!

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

441 Donna Ballard  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:22:17am

re: #438 Rightwingconspirator

It's time we went back to OLA. re: #432 iceweasel

Greetings from Occupied LA Ice.

I agree. Just remind me to bring a jacket this time! I got cold last time! Friday after you get off of work? Or Saturday afternoon, when John Q. Public has time to go and join? Either works for me, but maybe we should go on Sunday when LWC has time to join us.

442 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:22:22am

re: #419 publicityStunted

171 comments since 2005? The sock stench is insufferably suffocating.

Butthurt Confederate:

190 Big_Iron 2/01/2006 3:07:51 pm PST

O/T Does anyone have the link for the "Slightly Overweight" Pink mafia protestor? I had it but I lost it. Sort of like my hair.

The CSA, Fighting Terrorism Since 1861.

.

232 Big_Iron 3/03/2006 3:54:06 pm PST

See, if you Yankee Boys hadn't had Reconstruction and then let the New York Times lead you all around by the nose, then Jiminy Cricket, errr Carter would still be down in Plains picking peanuts.
But NOOO you had to treat the South badly and believe all the MSM propaganda about the South. But we got back at ya'll.
We gave you Carter and Clinton. Revenge is a dish best served cold. Too bad it kicked back on us.
You guys are just going to have to do what we Southern boys do about Carter. Ignore the hell out of him.

443 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:23:46am

re: #440 iossarian

Take that, Swedish peacenik hippie leftist bastards!

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

The only way the name "Vladimir Putin" and the words "peace prize" go together in a sentence is if the words "will never win a" are in between.

444 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:26:02am

Well, I see Nancy Pelosi's people have no factual problem with the hopefully famous 60 minutes piece on Congressional insider trading. They just keep whining about the source.

Pelosi spokesman Hammill said "60 Minutes" relied heavily on a "discredited conservative author who has made a career out of attacking Democrats," citing Schweizer books such as "Do as I Say (Not as I Do): Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy."

Schweizer accused Pelosi of trying to shoot the messenger rather than address stock trading by members of Congress and their staffs.

"The issue is what the facts say and whether people think there's a problem with a senior member of Congress, whoever they are, taking IPO shares of corporations that have legislation sitting in front of them," Schweizer said.

Read more: [Link: www.sfgate.com...]

445 Donna Ballard  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:27:17am

re: #444 Rightwingconspirator

Well, I see Nancy Pelosi's people have no factual problem with the hopefully famous 60 minutes piece on Congressional insider trading. They just keep whining about the source.

Pelosi spokesman Hammill said "60 Minutes" relied heavily on a "discredited conservative author who has made a career out of attacking Democrats," citing Schweizer books such as "Do as I Say (Not as I Do): Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy."

Schweizer accused Pelosi of trying to shoot the messenger rather than address stock trading by members of Congress and their staffs.

"The issue is what the facts say and whether people think there's a problem with a senior member of Congress, whoever they are, taking IPO shares of corporations that have legislation sitting in front of them," Schweizer said.

Read more: [Link: www.sfgate.com...]

Every time that woman opens her mouth my eyes glaze over. //

446 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:27:28am

[Link: cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com...]

Just to the west of the square was a fenced-off, padlocked lot owned by Trinity Church, a giant landowner downtown that has been supportive of the protesters at times.

The protesters had their eye on the church's lot. In mid-morning, a delegation of protesters said they were trying to obtain permission from church officials to occupy the lot.

It was not clear how that negotiation went, but at 11 a.m., two protesters dressed in black, wearing black bandannas over the lower part of their faces, used bolt cutters to snip through the chain-link fence and the crowd began streaming in.

447 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:28:25am

re: #443 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Sure, tho not literally. After all "Chinese peace prize" or "Iranian peace prize" do not equal "peace prize" ;)

448 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:28:36am

re: #441 Dragon_Lady

I'll stop by there tonight or tomorrow and chat with the media committee folks. see what might be interesting. We should cover one of the General Assemblies in part, and show how that works. That's 7:30 pm every night. I think LA will be looking to "clean & maintain the City Hall lawn" soon too.

449 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:30:28am

Grrr. Aurora is getting awfully crashy the last two days.

450 Donna Ballard  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:30:36am

re: #448 Rightwingconspirator

I'll stop by there tonight or tomorrow and chat with the media committee folks. see what might be interesting. We should cover one of the General Assemblies in part, and show how that works. That's 7:30 pm every night. I think LA will be looking to "clean & maintain the City Hall lawn" soon too.

Okey, doke. I guess it'll keep you from hitting a massive traffic jam anyways.

451 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:31:47am

re: #442 wrenchwench

Oh. Timely.

452 Gus  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:31:48am

re: #449 Rightwingconspirator

Grrr. Aurora is getting awfully crashy the last two days.

Same here. Started happening about a week ago.

They're going to ruin another good thing. Stupid developers don't know when to stop. They could have left well enough alone.

453 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:32:12am

re: #450 Dragon_Lady

Okey, doke. I guess it'll keep you from hitting a massive traffic jam anyways.

Won't the headline "Rightwingconspirator at OWS: LA" cause some cognitive dissonance?

454 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:34:06am

re: #448 Rightwingconspirator

I'll stop by there tonight or tomorrow and chat with the media committee folks. see what might be interesting. We should cover one of the General Assemblies in part, and show how that works. That's 7:30 pm every night. I think LA will be looking to "clean & maintain the City Hall lawn" soon too.

Shouldn't you have LGF press credentials? Or are you just relying on the wildly rolling eyes?

455 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:36:00am

re: #454 Decatur Deb

Shouldn't you have LGF press credentials? Or are you just relying on the wildly rolling eyes?

Are those the credentials with the wallpaper of a big lounging lizard?

456 Donna Ballard  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:36:04am

re: #453 oaktree

Only if they recognize him ;-) Which I kinda doubt, he may post openly but not many can put that together with his persona here fast enough to make four.

457 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:38:23am

Oooh, I feel rapy stabby hungry. bbl

458 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:39:43am

re: #457 Sergey Romanov

Oooh, I feel rapy stabby hungry. bbl

Occupy lunch!

459 Donna Ballard  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:41:04am

re: #455 oaktree

If you really knew him the last thing you'd ever call him is lounging! If he's not moving he's asleep! // Or posting here that is!

460 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:41:46am

re: #457 Sergey Romanov

Oooh, I feel rapy stabby hungry. bbl

I think the menu today is Zucotti Ziti Primavera (zucchini and red peppers) with a grilled troll sausage.

461 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:42:17am

re: #458 Killgore Trout

Occupy lunch!

At last, a movement that unites us all. Feed the 100%!!

462 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:43:03am

re: #461 iceweasel

At last, a movement that unites us all. Feed the 100%!!

Scotch eggs and ale for the masses!

463 sattv4u2  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:43:06am

re: #446 Killgore Trout

, two protesters dressed in black, wearing black bandannas over the lower part of their faces, used bolt cutters to snip through the chain-link fence

Looks like they decided they had "permission"

464 Donna Ballard  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:43:09am

re: #461 iceweasel

At last, a movement that unites us all. Feed the 100%!!

NOMS!!!

465 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:43:56am

re: #459 Dragon_Lady

If you really knew him the last thing you'd ever call him is lounging! If he's not moving he's asleep! // Or posting here that is!

He has learned well from the Cat Overlords...

466 lawhawk  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:44:57am

re: #435 Obdicut

Per the rules:

Hours of Operation
Persons may enter and use the parks from 6:00 a.m. until 1:00 a.m. unless other open hours are posted at any park.
Whenever a threat to public health or safety exists in any park resulting from any natural cause, explosion, accident or any other cause, or by riot or unlawful assembly or activity, the Commissioner may close the park or any part thereof to the public for such duration as he deems necessary to ensure the safety and well-being of the public.
No person shall enter or remain in any park without the permission of the Commissioner when such park is closed to the public.
Permits
When any provision of these Rules requires a permit as a condition to the performance of any act or activity, no such act or activity shall be implemented or commenced prior to the receipt of written authorization from the Commissioner or from his or her authorized representative.
A permit may be granted upon such terms and conditions as the Commissioner shall reasonably impose, and shall authorize the permitted acts or activities only insofar as they are performed in strict accordance with the terms and conditions thereof.
Permits shall be applied for on forms prepared and provided by the Department, which forms shall require such information as the Department may deem appropriate for the review and evaluation of the permit application. Procedures for issuance of special event and demonstration permits are governed by &sect2-08 of the Department's rules. The Commissioner may require a fee for the issuance of a permit.
The Commissioner may require the permittee to post a bond in an amount sufficient to ensure full compliance with the terms and conditions of the permit. The decision of whether to require a bond will be based on the following factors:
The location of the event and such location's vulnerability to damage;
Whether the event or any activities associated with the event present a high risk of property damage;
The number of people expected to be in attendance;
The type of equipment to be brought onto the site;
The number of days the permittee will occupy the site;
The season in which the event will take place.

Some parks have a dawn/dusk rule, but the general rule is that they're closed overnight.

467 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:46:21am

re: #466 lawhawk

Per the rules:

Some parks have a dawn/dusk rule, but the general rule is that they're closed overnight.

You're clouding the issue with facts again.

468 Donna Ballard  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:46:59am

re: #465 oaktree

He has learned well from the Cat Overlords...

Indeed he has, seeing as we have three of them offering constant instruction!

469 McSpiff  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:48:53am

www.businessinsider.com...]>The NYPD Broke Out This Sonic Weapon To Help Clear Protesters

The New York Police Department broke out a Long Range Acoustic Device device to help rid Zuccotti Park of protesters early Tuesday morning.

The hardware is used by the military and police to injure, incapacitate, and in some cases even kill an opponent.

470 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:49:21am

Hmm, I see the Occupy: LA Freeway movement is still going strong and uninterrupted! ;)

MSNBC Video
471 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:53:28am

re: #451 Sergey Romanov

Oh. Timely.

But wait, there's more! He's a KKK defender! Except for, you know, the unspeakable things they did to some people...

472 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:54:46am

Killgore, remember how you were perplexed that the Federal Reserve did outright purchase of T-bills? I just found out what that originated with.

473 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:55:33am

re: #471 wrenchwench

But wait, there's more! He's a KKK defender! Except for, you know, the unspeakable things they did to some people...

Oh joy. Another one who gets his history from Gone With the Wind.

474 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:56:40am

re: #471 wrenchwench

But wait, there's more! He's a KKK defender! Except for, you know, the unspeakable things they did to some people...

Klan defender? Hell, he's a 'Bama fan.

475 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:57:07am

re: #473 iceweasel

Oh joy. Another one who gets his history from Gone With the Wind.

"Birth of a Derp."

476 Donna Ballard  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:57:10am

BBL, furry Overlord is demanding attention again!

477 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:57:47am

re: #472 000G

Killgore, remember how you were perplexed that the Federal Reserve did outright purchase of T-bills? I just found it what that originated with.

Did you find an understandable explanation?

478 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:58:14am

re: #475 Decatur Deb

"Birth of a Derp."

Derp of a Nation!

479 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 8:58:32am

re: #59 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

If we live in a police state, it is one of the most lenient in the world.

For now ...

481 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 9:00:14am

re: #479 RayFerd

For now ...

DKOS is overflowing with police state nonsense this morning.

482 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 9:00:45am

re: #473 iceweasel

You may have noticed that I finally got accustomed to the word "butthurt". I was very uncomfortable with it when I first encountered it, but I've gotten used to it, no longer associate it with things it's not really associated with, and found it appropriate in this case.

483 iossarian  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 9:01:22am

re: #480 Killgore Trout

City: Occupy Denver protests have cost $360,000

NOOOO not $360K!

How will we survive this wanton waste of resources that could otherwise be spent on the massive debt payments incurred by the shitty investments we were conned into making by the banks?

484 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 9:01:41am

re: #482 wrenchwench

You may have noticed that I finally got accustomed to the word "butthurt". I was very uncomfortable with it when I first encountered it, but I've gotten used to it, no longer associate it with things it's not really associated with, and found it appropriate in this case.

I thought it was totally appropriate and was glad to see you use it! :-)

485 reine.de.tout  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 9:01:56am

re: #471 wrenchwench

But wait, there's more! He's a KKK defender! Except for, you know, the unspeakable things they did to some people...

Good gawd almighty.

486 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 9:02:33am

re: #477 Killgore Trout

Did you find an understandable explanation?

The explanation is pretty much the lack of good bills of exchange as a result of the Great Depression. This led to a provision in the Banking Act of 1933 aka – wait for it – Glass-Steagall. It was supposed to be only temporary to get through the shortfall but was then institutionalized with the Federal Open Market Comitteee, created by the Banking Act of 1935. And it's now used to finance budget deficits...

487 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 9:02:38am

re: #480 Killgore Trout

City: Occupy Denver protests have cost $360,000

So OWS has created more net jobs than Mitt Romney.

488 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 9:03:47am

re: #486 000G

The explanation is pretty much the lack of good bills of exchange as a result of the Great Depression. This led to a provision in the Banking Act of 1933 aka – wait for it – Glass-Stegall. It was supposed to be only temporary to get through the shortfall but was then institutionalized with the Federal Open Market Comitteee, created by the Banking Act of 1935. And it's now used to finance budget deficits...

Heh, that's surprising. Thanks.

489 kirkspencer  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 9:03:58am

re: #398 lawhawk

(snip)
The judge has no problem granting the TRO but ignores the owner's (Brookfield's) rights to their own property. Doubt this will be the last we hear about the legalities of the case.

(snip)

As I recall, the owners of the property were not objecting. Which puts this whole thing back on the city.

490 Decatur Deb  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 9:04:04am

re: #485 reine.de.tout

Good gawd almighty.

Every time I think I'm being paranoid...

491 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 9:05:36am

re: #471 wrenchwench

But wait, there's more! He's a KKK defender! Except for, you know, the unspeakable things they did to some people...

Oh what a sick fuck. Even aside from KKK.

492 kirkspencer  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 9:09:01am

re: #489 kirkspencer

As I recall, the owners of the property were not objecting. Which puts this whole thing back on the city.

And having posted that, I've found that Broomfield claims otherwise. (statement) In part (and of relevance:

We have been in constant contact with Brookfield and yesterday they requested that the City assist it in enforcing the no sleeping and camping rules in the park. But make no mistake – the final decision to act was mine.

493 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 9:16:05am

re: #491 Sergey Romanov

Oh what a sick fuck. Even aside from KKK.

I often wonder how some people remember their passwords to get back in here and dump their "thoughts".

Probably the same way I do. With help from the browser options.

494 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 9:59:25am

re: #111 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

The movement so far seems only to exist as modern day Hoovervilles united in name. Protesting against the problems is admirable, but without clear goals or solutions, it's just so much background noise. I've seen people attribute BoA backing down from its new fees as a sign of the OWS' success, but that's just a point in favor of the need for something more than just raging against the machine.

And to be perfectly honest, if BofA charging big account fees was our biggest problem...Lord...

495 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 10:09:04am

re: #150 Obdicut

I'm really wondering how much worse it has to get. 30 years of stagnant wages, companies blatantly shutting down jobs here and shipping them overseas, workers dying on the job because corporations want a quick buck. If anyone isn't pissed already, I have trouble understanding what would make them pissed.

I mean, we've all seen the people holding up signs about how they work three jobs and can barely afford health insurance but they're not complaining. Why aren't they? Is that the life that they want?

No, but they have pride.

The '53%' signs make me want to curse and weep, and occasionally laugh hysterically, but I also understand where they originate from, and it's a deep place in American society. It's very easy to dismiss these folks as stupid, rwnj pawns, what have you, but it's deeper and more complicated than that. If we're going to get out of the corner we've painted ourselves into as a society, in terms of earning and social support, and health care and whole bunch of other things, these folks are going to have to feel that they can support that, without losing their concept of themselves as workers and achievers. We need a different kind of discussion about this, one I'm not sure OWS is providing for a wide-enough strata of society.

Yes, I'm concerned. Chalk it up to my apparent enthusiastic support of police brutality.

496 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 10:18:13am

re: #495 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, I'm concerned. Chalk it up to my apparent enthusiastic support of police brutality.

I'm sorry, that sentence doesn't really seem to fit anything I was saying, but it's in a response to me, so I'm kind of confused.

I also haven't dismissed anyone as stupid, a pawn, or anything else.

I'm just asking-- if they're not already pissed, what would it take to get them pissed? I'm reaching the conclusion that at no point would they actually get pissed off enough about 'mere' economic injustice to really do anything about it. After all, back in the bad old days, it wasn't like a majority of society was out there protesting terrible working conditions. It was always a small minority fighting for worker's rights, as most just tried to get through the day.

497 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 10:47:23am

re: #496 Obdicut

I'm sorry, that sentence doesn't really seem to fit anything I was saying, but it's in a response to me, so I'm kind of confused.

I also haven't dismissed anyone as stupid, a pawn, or anything else.

I'm just asking-- if they're not already pissed, what would it take to get them pissed? I'm reaching the conclusion that at no point would they actually get pissed off enough about 'mere' economic injustice to really do anything about it. After all, back in the bad old days, it wasn't like a majority of society was out there protesting terrible working conditions. It was always a small minority fighting for worker's rights, as most just tried to get through the day.

Sorry. Referencing earlier in the thread. I'm pretty pissed off right now.

Also, not saying that you're calling them stupid. But I have seen a lot of anger directed at them.

Bringing too much outside crap into this.

I don't think all of them need to be angry enough to do something, but this is an example of people who ARE angry enough to do something, they're angry enough to make little signs explaining that they work 80 hours weeks, live on ramen, and have no health care, and that's FINE thank you. And while I think that's insane, I also, sort of understand what they're feeling.

If we actually try to fix some of these issues through legislation--health care especially, since it's been so poisoned before now--it would be great to have some of these folks supporting it instead of fighting like crazy against it. I don't entirely know how you would get there, but I've been giving it some thought.

498 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 10:55:42am

re: #497 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't think all of them need to be angry enough to do something, but this is an example of people who ARE angry enough to do something, they're angry enough to make little signs explaining that they work 80 hours weeks, live on ramen, and have no health care, and that's FINE thank you. And while I think that's insane, I also, sort of understand what they're feeling.

I do think it is a pride thing. I also find pride a really bizarre emotion most of the time. People are very often proud of things I find baffling as to why they would be proud of them.

If you can understand what they're feeling, I think you can probably also understand why people are angry at them.

I'm not angry at them, but I do think they're not helping, and engaging in magical thinking that's going to wind up, quite often, with them being screwed.

And the ones who write on their signs about how they went to a state school, or otherwise benefited from our civil society, seem to be wildly missing the point.

499 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 11:01:24am

re: #498 Obdicut

I do think it is a pride thing. I also find pride a really bizarre emotion most of the time. People are very often proud of things I find baffling as to why they would be proud of them.

If you can understand what they're feeling, I think you can probably also understand why people are angry at them.

I'm not angry at them, but I do think they're not helping, and engaging in magical thinking that's going to wind up, quite often, with them being screwed.

And the ones who write on their signs about how they went to a state school, or otherwise benefited from our civil society, seem to be wildly missing the point.

The signs, more than anything, I think, point to people who've been badly misinformed. I wonder if there are ways to undo that.

500 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 11:04:21am

And when I say pride, I don't mean in the sense of 'proud of X', but more in the sense of 'too proud to whitewash, and too poor to paint'. They may have been dealt a shit hand, but they can maintain their sense of self if they insist they have the situation under control in some sense, even if that's only going on regardless.

This is a cultural response, and it's a stress response.

501 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 15, 2011 11:04:30am

re: #499 SanFranciscoZionist

The signs, more than anything, I think, point to people who've been badly misinformed. I wonder if there are ways to undo that.

Well, propaganda actually works, in both a negative and positive fashion. They've been exposed to an absolute torrent of propaganda from the glibertarian types, Fox News, and the rest of that crowd. It's only recently that attempts from 'the other side' have actually seemed to gain any traction. The stuff happening in Ohio gives me some hope.

I sincerely think that the court decision to allow Fox News to knowingly lie was a very bad one, and that that, and other decisions like it holding the media to absolutely no real responsibility in accuracy, are part of the problem. The media does not exist in a vacuum; it depends on the public grace to exist, and so it should be, in some ways, answerable to that public beyond advertising dollars.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ...
Cheechako
6 days ago
Views: 164 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
2 weeks ago
Views: 329 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1