Former Australian Foreign Minister: Snowden’s Behaviour Is Abominable

The Guardian’s latest report has harmed Australia-Indonesia relations
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The latest reports from the Guardian based on Edward Snowden’s stolen NSA documents revealed that four years ago Australia wiretapped both the president of Indonesia and his wife, and this story has fractured the relationship between the two historically friendly neighboring countries.

Here’s an interesting perspective on this debacle, in an interview with former Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer from ABC News.

Mr. Downer doesn’t think very highly of what Snowden and his journalistic accomplices are doing; he points out that cooperation with Indonesia on people smuggling will be damaged by these stories, and concludes by saying:

Our good friendship, and our good relationship, and the interest we share shouldn’t be held hostage by the abominable behavior of Edward Snowden, and frankly the pretty irresponsible behavior by British left wing newspaper The Guardian.

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91 comments
1 Kragar  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 3:18:04pm

Greenwald doesn’t give a fuck about anything except causing chaos.

2 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 3:20:34pm

Greenwald’s going after the US and its allies exclusively. Canada’s next on the hit list.

3 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 3:22:45pm

The longer this goes on, the more and more I begin to wonder if Snowden was on the FSB’s payroll.

4 Kragar  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 3:23:28pm

re: #2 Charles Johnson

Greenwald’s going after the US and its allies exclusively. Canada’s next on the hit list.

It probably has something to do with the fact is that Russia, China and quite a few other countries would kill him if he tried to pull that shit with them.

5 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 3:26:37pm

re: #4 Kragar

It probably has something to do with the fact is that Russia, China and quite a few other countries would kill him if he tried to pull that shit with them.

They’d first torture him. Of course, when someone like a former Aussie FM condemns it, GG can go to his useful idiot friends and say “Aha, you see they’re tyrants out to get me and they’re no better than China, Russia, etc.”

6 Kragar  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 3:27:19pm

Going after US intelligence operations: TV interviews, book deals, the worship of dudebros

Going after Russian intelligence operations: killed brutally, 50/50 chance of your body ever being discovered

Yeah, Glenn made the safe call.
/

7 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 3:28:38pm

Hell, perhaps the reason there’s been no revelations about Russia or China from Glennden is because, by this point, nobody would be surprised to hear that they’re spying on their own citizens and their “allies.”

8 AlexRogan  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 3:38:29pm

re: #4 Kragar

It probably has something to do with the fact is that Russia, China and quite a few other countries would kill him if he tried to pull that shit with them.

Pretty much.

After all, we’ve all seen how Russia treats its “friends”; Snowden’s been pretty much isolated by the FSB real good.

9 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 3:39:57pm
10 Kragar  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 3:47:27pm
11 piratedan  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 3:48:39pm

well it would seem that the next best step that could happen for our Russian and Chinese friends would be to go ahead and put a bullet in the back of the head for Ed and Glenn and then let the world press speculate on who did it. Might very well generate the kind of chaos that they would enjoy and profit from. Kinda strange but I almost wonder if GG will get/receive a quiet protection from the US just because of the potential repercussions.

Myself, I would prefer the derptastic duo to end up in a jail cell, someplace nifty, say Wyoming and they can pass notes to each other, for years.

12 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 3:49:36pm

re: #2 Charles Johnson

Greenwald’s going after the US and its allies exclusively. Canada’s next on the hit list.

Please don’t drag us into this, eh?

Those hockey sticks with hidden surveillance devices in them aren’t cheap!

13 b.d.  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 3:50:13pm

re: #2 Charles Johnson

Greenwald’s going after the US and its allies exclusively. Canada’s next on the hit list.

Who he is not talking about is very telling and funny that it is countries that he could not stand or be able to live in.

14 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 3:50:31pm

re: #6 Kragar

Going after US intelligence operations: TV interviews, book deals, the worship of dudebros

Going after Russian intelligence operations: killed brutally, 50/50 chance of your body ever being discovered

Yeah, Glenn made the safe call.
/

In America, you look for the party.

In Russia, party finds you!

15 Kragar  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 3:52:47pm

Hollywood lied to us. I was under the impression we had entire covert teams which could make it look like Greenwald had an unfortunate accident or be completely discredited in a matter of days.

Where the hell is Remo Williams?
/

16 b.d.  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 3:53:02pm

re: #11 piratedan

It would be too perfect for China and Russia with little to lose. The CIA and MI6 would get the blame no matter what thus unleashing more batshit crazy dudebros.

17 Jack Burton  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 3:55:08pm

re: #15 Kragar

Where the hell is Remo Williams?
/

Working on Lesson #36 of Sinanju.

18 piratedan  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 3:59:08pm

re: #16 b.d.

It would be too perfect for China and Russia with little to lose. The CIA and MI6 would get the blame no matter what thus unleashing more batshit crazy dudebros.

my thought as well, the dudebros are already a paranoid lot and with Obama’s “success” in getting Usama, well, what isn’t he capable of… if you get my drift. It’s scary that I can drop into such melodramatics over something like this, but years of watching the GOP drop into the crazy zone and the rest of the world seeing how a competent US foreign policy gets implemented, I really could see something this blatantly sinister come to pass. I don’t like GG very much at all, think Snowden was either a naive pawn or a spy for hire but I want them to pay for their crimes not be used to further someone else’s agenda and I think that it’s possible that they could be. Really, how much farther are they going to be able to milk this?

19 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 3:59:34pm

He’s one of our right wing nutters
The things that batter.

20 b.d.  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:00:20pm

Australia spying on Indonesia. What the hell does that have to do with Greenwald’s stated mission again?

21 Kragar  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:01:52pm

re: #20 b.d.

Australia spying on Indonesia. What the hell does that have to do with Greenwald’s stated mission again?

Spying exists, thus America is evil.

22 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:01:53pm

re: #20 b.d.

Australia spying on Indonesia. What the hell does that have to do with Greenwald’s stated mission again?

It has to do with his unstated mission of getting as much money and fame/infamy off the Snowden leaks as he can.

23 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:05:08pm

re: #21 Kragar

Spying exists, thus America is evil.

Nobody spied until the US invented it, now everybody spies, showing how evil America truly is.

///

24 b.d.  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:06:45pm

re: #18 piratedan

Neither one of us want physical harm to come to Snowden or Greenwald. We spend lots of money building very good strong jails for people like Snowden and they should be put to use.

Look the crazy conspiracy bizarro world that sprung up on Michael Hastings death. If Glenn gets a case the sniffles people will be screaming that the CIA is introducing pathogens as an assassination attempt!!

25 Kragar  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:06:53pm

re: #23 Targetpractice

Nobody spied until the US invented it, now everybody spies, showing how evil America truly is.

///

Prior to July 4th, 1776, no human in all recorded history ever asked “Hey, what are those guys doing?”

26 theye1  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:07:03pm

This has gotten Australia’s (popular) xenophobes, namely talkback radio and Andrew Bolt, in a lather. They’ve been accusing anybody who thinks we should apologize for the phone-tapping scandal of “deliberately damaging Australia.” Talkback radio has accused the Greens, a political party, of treason.

27 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:07:35pm

Abominable Snowden? Is that like a yuki?

28 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:08:53pm

re: #19 Usually refered to as anyways

He’s one of our right wing nutters
The things that batter.

I see some major fauxs pas there (sorry, I don’t know how to pluralize French). Do you think his opinion on Snowden is of some value?

29 GeneJockey  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:13:28pm

re: #25 Kragar

Prior to July 4th, 1776, no human in all recorded history ever asked “Hey, what are those guys doing?”

It was that bastard Nathan Hale! He started the whole thing!

30 ObserverArt  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:17:50pm

I’m trying to think of where a guy like Snowden is going to be media-wise in one year. Will he still be considered a hero? Will he still be in Russia? Will Greenwald still acknowledge him? Will he slink off into obscurity and one day in a few years a story will pop up and many will go, “oh yeah, I remember that dude.”

I’m leaning to his going obscure but still rolled out as a hero by those that need it, but for a majority of America it will be “oh yeah, that guy, that did that thing…what was it again?”

It takes work to stay in the limelight anymore. Maybe he will just settle for being big in Russia.

31 fern01  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:20:20pm

The world is become a more hostile environment since Snowden/Greenwald began their hate on democracy. I do not support the current Australian Government - nor Alexander Downer - who has little to offer anyone - but - I was unexpectedly impressed with the PM (Abbott), when he apologized for the “publication of the spying issue”.

I like that he apologized for the actions of Greenwald & Co that have set cooperation between countries back 200 years.

32 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:22:44pm

re: #28 wrenchwench

I see some major fauxs pas there (sorry, I don’t know how to pluralize French). Do you think his opinion on Snowden is of some value?

Hi wrenchwench,
I wouldn’t quote Palin or Brian Fischer, even if they had said something I agreed with.

Just for anyone who didn’t follow the link, he finds abused wives amusing.

He also has contempt for journalists who ask questions.

And a contempt for governmental enquires, a partial transcript.

Memory lapse: Downer appears at the Cole Inquiry, April 2006

“I don’t recall.”

“I don’t recall.”

“I don’t recall.”

“I just don’t recall.”

“No, not that I can recall at all.”

“I can’t recall my state of mind when I read the document…”

“I don’t recall being given that information.”

“Well, I simply do not recall.”

“Well, I can only tell you what I can recall…”

“If he had told me that, I would have thought I’d have remembered it, but I don’t recall.”

“Yes, it could be.”

“It may have been.”

“It could have been.”

“It might have been..”

“I don’t recall.”

“No, I don’t recall that.”

“I don’t recall them saying that.”

“I don’t recall them saying that to me.”

“I could have done, but I don’t recall it.”

“No, not that I can recall at all.”

“I can’t, of course, recall.”

33 thedopefishlives  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:22:58pm

Evening Lizardim. So the world is basically confirming what we knew from the start - Greenwald and Snowden are at the head of the Douchecanoe Class of 2013. How go things out there among the lizardfolk?

34 urbanmeemaw  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:25:22pm

re: #23 Targetpractice

Nobody spied until the US invented it, now everybody spies, showing how evil America truly is.

///

Slight dudebro correction - nobody spied until Obama invented it.

35 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:30:27pm

re: #32 Usually refered to as anyways

Hi wrenchwench,
I wouldn’t quote Palin or Brian Fischer, even if they had said something I agreed with.

Just for anyone who didn’t follow the link, he finds abused wives amusing.

He also has contempt for journalists who ask questions.

And a contempt for governmental enquires, a partial transcript.

Memory lapse: Downer appears at the Cole Inquiry, April 2006

“I don’t recall.”

“I don’t recall.”

“I don’t recall.”

“I just don’t recall.”

“No, not that I can recall at all.”

“I can’t recall my state of mind when I read the document…”

“I don’t recall being given that information.”

“Well, I simply do not recall.”

“Well, I can only tell you what I can recall…”

“If he had told me that, I would have thought I’d have remembered it, but I don’t recall.”

“Yes, it could be.”

“It may have been.”

“It could have been.”

“It might have been..”

“I don’t recall.”

“No, I don’t recall that.”

“I don’t recall them saying that.”

“I don’t recall them saying that to me.”

“I could have done, but I don’t recall it.”

“No, not that I can recall at all.”

“I can’t, of course, recall.”

I don’t have time to get up to speed on this guy, but you’re giving me the sense that you wouldn’t use him as a source because you don’t respect him. But from what I saw at the link you gave, to say ‘he finds abused wives amusing’ is not a very accurate assessment of his foot-in-mouth incident.

Looks like he has a much more distinguished career of service than Palin does, and Bryan Fischer has none, so that analogy might be off too.

I haven’t noticed your position on Snowden. Is it different from Mr. Downers?

36 dr. klys  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:31:43pm

re: #32 Usually refered to as anyways

I think the saying that applies here involves blind pigs and acorns. Or a stopped clock.

37 ObserverArt  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:33:16pm

re: #34 urbanmeemaw

Slight dudebro correction - nobody spied until Obama invented it.

That may be too strong. Try nobody spied like Obama spies.

Usually there is an acknowledgement that ‘stuff’ happened before Obama…but no one has been as dirty, cynical, Muslimesque, crooked, reparative, evil, vile, dastardly, socialistic, fascist, anti-American-pro-Kenyan, liberal, excuse-making as Obama.

Ever!!!

38 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:35:56pm

Shampoos are fun!

39 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:39:03pm

re: #35 wrenchwench

I don’t have time to get up to speed on this guy, but you’re giving me the sense that you wouldn’t use him as a source because you don’t respect him. But from what I saw at the link you gave, to say ‘he finds abused wives amusing’ is not a very accurate assessment of his foot-in-mouth incident.

Looks like he has a much more distinguished career of service than Palin does, and Bryan Fischer has none, so that analogy might be off too.

I haven’t noticed your position on Snowden. Is it different from Mr. Downers?

To be honest, its not something I’m following closely, but if he’s the one being used by Glen Greenwald, and also had 60,000 credit card numbers then I will presume he is a thief. I also wonder how much he is enjoying the hospitality of the Russians.

Ok, lets swap Palin and Fischer for Romney, that would be a much closer example, he’s a rich fuck that thinks he’s entitled and elite.

His foot in mouth is because of his lack of empathy and disconnect with the subjects.

40 missliberties  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:40:57pm

Has it crossed anyone else’s mind that Snowden and his crew have been busy trying to hack healthcare.gov?

41 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:43:10pm

re: #39 Usually refered to as anyways

To be honest, its not something I’m following closely, but if he’s the one being used by Glen Greenwald, and also had 60,000 credit card numbers then I will presume he is a thief. I also wonder how much he is enjoying the hospitality of the Russians.

Ok, lets swap Palin and Fischer for Romney, that would be a much closer example, he’s a rich fuck that thinks he’s entitled and elite.

His foot in mouth is because of his lack of empathy and disconnect with the subjects.

Lack of empathy and Romney, I can see that. But there’s a big difference between Palin/Fischer and Romney. Romney was more mainstream, until he disappeared for some reason….

42 dr. klys  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:43:54pm

re: #39 Usually refered to as anyways

To be honest, its not something I’m following closely, but if he’s the one being used by Glen Greenwald, and also had 60,000 credit card numbers then I will presume he is a thief. I also wonder how much he is enjoying the hospitality of the Russians.

Ok, lets swap Palin and Fischer for Romney, that would be a much closer example, he’s a rich fuck that thinks he’s entitled and elite.

His foot in mouth is because of his lack of empathy and disconnect with the subjects.

Snowden is in Russia, but not because he stole 60,000 credit card numbers.

Snowden is in Russia because he doesn’t want to go to jail for stealing thousands of classified documents and passing them along to Glenn Greenwald, who’s been busy releasing them for maximum damage and profit since.

43 urbanmeemaw  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:45:04pm

re: #37 ObserverArt

I forgot. Before PBO there was just a blur of “stuff” that happened, but when he became President that stuff became icky.

On another note, a rather frightening story from Forbes (11-28-13)

h/t Spitfire List/Dave Emory

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/11/18/meet-the-assassination-market-creator-whos-crowdfunding-murder

44 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:46:14pm

re: #41 wrenchwench

Lack of empathy and Romney, I can see that. But there’s a big difference between Palin/Fischer and Romney. Romney was more mainstream, until he disappeared for some reason….

Through the sanity of the majority?

45 compound_Idaho  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:46:20pm

I’m grandfathered in!

Image: ACA.jpg

I checked. A comparable ACA approved policy, same company, same deductible etc. would cost +$285/mo = $3,400/yr.

I wonder how long it will last?

PS some changes are still required even on grandfathered policies. The most important is no lifetime limit. (no annual limits either, but my policy did not have one)

46 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:47:27pm

re: #42 klys

Snowden is in Russia, but not because he stole 60,000 credit card numbers.

Snowden is in Russia because he doesn’t want to go to jail for stealing thousands of classified documents and passing them along to Glenn Greenwald, who’s been busy releasing them for maximum damage and profit since.

So Snowden is to Greenwald what Manning was to Assange?

47 thedopefishlives  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:48:08pm

re: #46 Usually refered to as anyways

So Snowden is to Greenwald what Manning was to Assange?

You pretty much nailed it. There’s also some indication that Snowden, Greenwald, and Assange are all in it together in some sort of sick and twisted dudebro love triangle.

48 thedopefishlives  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:49:23pm

re: #40 missliberties

Has it crossed anyone else’s mind that Snowden and his crew have been busy trying to hack healthcare.gov?

I doubt it. Snowden was set up for a specific mission. Greenwald has no need to bother with healthcare.gov because it won’t expose teh ebil Amerikan gubmint.

49 urbanmeemaw  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:50:06pm

re: #43 urbanmeemaw

I got a weird error message from LGF when I clicked on the link I provided. Did one of the words in the title in the link trigger it? It’s a link to a Forbes article.

50 b.d.  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:51:09pm

re: #46 Usually refered to as anyways

So Snowden is to Greenwald what Manning was to Assange?

Except Julian gets a world class actor to play him in a major Hollywood feature film and Glenn gets to be portrayed by Cartman in an episode in Southpark.

51 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:51:52pm

re: #44 Usually refered to as anyways

Through the sanity of the majority?

Indeed.

52 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:52:08pm

re: #50 b.d.

That’s funny…

53 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:52:55pm
54 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:53:46pm

re: #49 urbanmeemaw

I got a weird error message from LGF when I clicked on the link I provided. Did one of the words in the title in the link trigger it? It’s a link to a Forbes article.

Click the little pencil and you can still edit the comment. The link’s ‘href’ attribute is wrong — you got the text and the href switched.

55 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:54:14pm

re: #40 missliberties

Has it crossed anyone else’s mind that Snowden and his crew have been busy trying to hack healthcare.gov?

There are reports of some ineffective hack attacks, some dimwit trying to
gin up a low-orbital ion cannon shtick. Looks more like the contractors did what they often do—stick rigidly to poorly conceived government contract.

56 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 4:56:51pm

re: #51 wrenchwench

Indeed.

I gotta say, that I do feel differently towards Manning than I do towards Assange and Greenwald, I don’t know enough about Snowden to have an opinion.

I think Assange and Greenwald both knew and understood what they were doing, and I think their involvement was self serving.

I’m not sure I feel that way towards Manning, he may have been naive and somewhat vulnerable and manipulated. He’s also the only one serving time…

57 piratedan  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 5:00:35pm

re: #53 wrenchwench

yeah we have weather moving in, so we have some clouds to bounce some sunbeams off of and the city sits with a mountain range essentially setting it’s boundaries on the four major compass points, not too many places like that.

58 dr. klys  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 5:03:51pm

re: #53 wrenchwench

Here was my sunset.

I know it’s washed out but I was being lazy with the phone camera.

59 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 5:05:46pm

re: #57 piratedan

yeah we have weather moving in, so we have some clouds to bounce some sunbeams off of and the city sits with a mountain range essentially setting it’s boundaries on the four major compass points, not too many places like that.

It’s often so beautiful. Other times, it’s just hot. I like hot, but not that hot, for that long….

60 Stanley Sea  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 5:08:21pm

re: #53 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

Just gorgeous.

61 thedopefishlives  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 5:10:23pm

re: #57 piratedan

yeah we have weather moving in, so we have some clouds to bounce some sunbeams off of and the city sits with a mountain range essentially setting it’s boundaries on the four major compass points, not too many places like that.

I have to admit, although I would miss the snow and cold of the Midwest, there is a charm to the desert life that I enjoyed during my brief weekend visit to Nevada.

62 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 5:11:32pm

re: #27 Decatur Deb

Abominable Snowden? Is that like a yuki?

More like a yak attack!

63 Political Atheist  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 5:14:38pm

re: #53 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

I love that town. Lots of good times at the Gem Show, a favorite niece, and the food is as good as anything in the whole state.

64 Lidane  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 5:23:46pm

Spoke to my ex-boss about the interview gauntlet I ran yesterday. He’s an objective eye and knows my work style, so when I mentioned that they had me pegged for a different role than what they were hiring for, he took it as good news and gave me some great advice. I’m definitely feeling better about yesterday now. We’ll see where things go from here.

65 dog philosopher  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 5:27:36pm

re: #54 Charles Johnson

Click the little pencil and you can still edit the comment. The link’s ‘href’ attribute is wrong — you got the text and the href switched.

“a href” strikes me as pretty poor API design anyway - the abbreviations are nerdacious and out of date

a == “anchor”

href == “hypertext reference”

and don’t conform to the principle of self documenting code anymore…

i think better choices, that would conform to the current familiar nomenclature, would be ‘link’ and ‘url’

66 Surabaya Stew  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 5:33:35pm

re: #56 Usually refered to as anyways

I gotta say, that I do feel differently towards Manning than I do towards Assange and Greenwald, I don’t know enough about Snowden to have an opinion.

I think Assange and Greenwald both knew and understood what they were doing, and I think their involvement was self serving.

I’m not sure I feel that way towards Manning, he may have been naive and somewhat vulnerable and manipulated. He’s also the only one serving time…

If I may add to this; it was Manning and Snowdon who took the risk and did the crime of stealing the documents, Assange and Greenwald are the jerks who are attempting to take the “glory” without much risk.

But look at it this way: if it were not Manning and Snowdon who took all of those classified documents/state secrets, it would have been somebody else, perhaps with truly evil intent. The fact that persons of their caliber were alowed anywhere near and had access to those documents means that we really had it coming; that the State Department, Armed Forces and the NSA all failed us and the interests of the United States.

I feel that these agencies (especially the NSA) really need to be reprimanded on an institution-wide level, because its clear to me that they can’t be trusted to protect us. Our government has been/is being held hostage to the whims and grudges of Assange/Greenwald, and this is pathetic!

67 thedopefishlives  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 5:40:37pm

re: #65 dog philosopher

“a href” strikes me as pretty poor API design anyway - the abbreviations are nerdacious and out of date

a == “anchor”

href == “hypertext reference”

and don’t conform to the principle of self documenting code

i think better choices, that would conform to the current familiar nomenclature, would be ‘link’ and ‘url’

I don’t think self-documenting code was as much a concern back when HTML was first drafted.

68 dog philosopher  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 5:44:31pm

re: #67 thedopefishlives

I don’t think self-documenting code was as much a concern back when HTML was first drafted.

yah well that’s a problem today since html literacy is fast becoming a requirement for 21st century citizenship

69 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 5:49:50pm

re: #65 dog philosopher

“a href” strikes me as pretty poor API design anyway - the abbreviations are nerdacious and out of date

a == “anchor”

href == “hypertext reference”

and don’t conform to the principle of self documenting code anymore…

i think better choices, that would conform to the current familiar nomenclature, would be ‘link’ and ‘url’

That tag goes back to the very beginnings of HTML. It was created by pure nerds, living in their own world.

And now it’s everywhere. Too late to change it.

70 GeneJockey  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 5:51:20pm

re: #58 klys

Here was my sunset.

I know it’s washed out but I was being lazy with the phone camera.

Is that thing with the treads in the foreground your evening a-tire?

71 dog philosopher  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 5:52:00pm

re: #69 Charles Johnson

That tag goes back to the very beginnings of HTML. It was created by pure nerds, living in their own world.

And now it’s everywhere. Too late to change it.

i was always an impure nerd, anyway…

even tho i know the meaning of CAR and CDR

72 thedopefishlives  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 5:53:06pm

re: #71 dog philosopher

i was always an impure nerd, anyway…

even tho i know the meaning of CAR and CDR

Ah, Lisp. The language of God. Although if you took Him to a bar and got Him nice and drunk, He would probably admit to hacking most of it together with Perl.

73 Pumpkin Pie Of Zion  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 5:58:40pm

HURR HURR I AM TEH GREATER JOURNALIST THEN BOB WOODWARD!!!!11!!!!!

74 dog philosopher  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 5:58:55pm

re: #72 thedopefishlives

Ah, Lisp. The language of God. Although if you took Him to a bar and got Him nice and drunk, He would probably admit to hacking most of it together with Perl.

since He is able, i guess, to travel in time, i suppose that would be possible

(LISP was invented in 1958 and Perl in 1987)

anyway, since i never touched a computer until i was 28, it is a matter of some bemusement to me that i learned to code in LISP some 30 years ago…

i remember my LISP class professor looking over my shoulder in lab and saying “aha, now you have learned how to think upside down and backwards”

75 Amory Blaine  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 5:59:05pm

I remember writing Lisp commands in AutoCAD back in college. Is that the same thing?

76 dog philosopher  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 6:00:39pm

re: #75 Amory Blaine

I remember writing Lisp commands in AutoCAD back in college. Is that the same thing?

yah i think so more or less

77 thedopefishlives  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 6:01:49pm

re: #74 dog philosopher

When I was in college, Lisp was taught in the Artificial Intelligence courses. I absolutely adored Lisp and quickly became proficient in it, as with all the other languages I dabbled in during my coursework. My classmates all despised it and wound up coming to me to figure out how the eff things worked.

78 dr. klys  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 6:02:15pm

Oh god here’s the lecture where we start P versus NP.

79 thedopefishlives  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 6:03:20pm

re: #75 Amory Blaine

I remember writing Lisp commands in AutoCAD back in college. Is that the same thing?

A lot of programmable tools use Lisp or Python for their programming interfaces because they’re so powerful and so easy to adapt. The GIMP, an image manipulation tool, uses a dialect of Lisp as its command interface.

80 dog philosopher  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 6:03:22pm

re: #77 thedopefishlives

When I was in college, Lisp was taught in the Artificial Intelligence courses. I absolutely adored Lisp and quickly became proficient in it, as with all the other languages I dabbled in during my coursework. My classmates all despised it and wound up coming to me to figure out how the eff things worked.

LISP is beautiful!

81 dog philosopher  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 6:04:01pm

re: #78 klys

Oh god here’s the lecture where we start P versus NP.

NP hard

82 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 6:04:28pm

Later, lizards.

83 dr. klys  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 6:05:31pm

re: #81 dog philosopher

NP hard

Can I leave it at that and skip the next two lectures?

84 thedopefishlives  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 6:08:14pm

re: #80 dog philosopher

LISP is beautiful!

Lisp takes defun out of everything.

*cough*

Thank you, I’ll be here all week.

85 b.d.  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 6:10:48pm

re: #73 Learned Pie Of Zion

There’s a lot of real estate between Bob Woodward and GLenn Greenwald, just saying that I wouldn’t turn anything over to either one of them.

86 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Nov 20, 2013 6:14:23pm

With apologies to the milk producers board…

(lisp-p)

T

87 Crestthree  Thu, Nov 21, 2013 2:46:46am

This blog has gotten [in part] so depressing.
Day after day, new revelations emerge, scores of allied countries, their leaders and citizens are appalled and angered - yes, these leaders are frequently hypocrites, but what of the citizens? And what of we Americans, who have done nothing wrong, who might happen to have loved ones overseas? What about our rights?
How about one acknowledgment that we had a right to know about what is being done with our tax dollars, and that its way beyond the scope of what was reasonably needed to protect us?
You can still continue to excoriate Greenwald, who is arrogant and hard to love, admittedly, but to hell with the source; what about us? Were you happier not knowing? And can we stop this relentless nonsense about how they need a warrant? So did Hoover. If the information is available - and it was available to a high school drop out, Snowden, and tens of thousands of other - it will be abused. Do we really have to prove that obvious point anymore?

88 Varek Raith  Thu, Nov 21, 2013 3:22:47am

re: #87 Crestthree

And what did this specific leak have to do with any of that?

89 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 21, 2013 8:27:44am

re: #87 Crestthree

This blog has gotten [in part] so depressing.

Which part?

Crestthree

Registered since: Nov 7, 2013 at 3:12 pm
No. of comments posted: 3
No. of Pages posted: 0

Is three all we’re gonna get?

90 Nemesis6  Fri, Nov 22, 2013 2:41:35am

Of course they have hurt relations - Spying on other people tends to make them angry.

91 The War TARDIS  Fri, Nov 22, 2013 7:21:25pm

We got a few live ones.

Who’s got the grill?


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