American Conservatives Say Israelis Don’t Understand Their Own Religious Laws on Abortion

Religion • Views: 20,155

But American reporters are curious: if US Christian Zionists, who have significant overlap with the US anti-choice movement, love Israel so much, shouldn’t they be up in arms about the country adopting one of the world’s most expansive abortion policies?

The Daily Beast’s Jonathan Krohn set out to find out (“You would expect conservative groups to go ballistic when it comes to taxpayer funding of abortions,” reads his lede) and got a number of vague answers which suggested that US anti-choicers don’t feel particularly inclined to export the abortion wars to Israel. But Americans United for Life’s Charmaine Yoest, who is Christian, ventured into a suggestion that perhaps the Israelis were getting their own religious laws wrong:

Dr. Charmaine Yoest, the CEO of Americans United for Life (AUL), decided to use Jewish law as a defense, saying “In a meaningful passage, the Talmud teaches that ‘Whosoever preserves a single soul…, [it is] as though he had preserved a complete world.’ Unborn lives are rich with possibilities and worth saving and government should never be used to harm life and harm women.”

More: American Conservatives, Jewish Law, and Israel’s New Abortion Policy

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107 comments

1 Skip Intro  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 9:55:49am

I”m sure the Israelis welcome being instructed on their religious laws by a RW Christian NJ.

2 KettleKat  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 10:00:42am

Wingnuts arrogance knows no bounds. Now they’re telling Jews that they’re doing Judaism wrong?

3 ausador  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 10:17:18am

re: #1 Skip Intro

I”m sure the Israelis welcome being instructed on their religious laws by a RW Christian NJ.

Who else would know that Moses was actually a Christian (and apparently a gentile)?

In answer to this post…

“The Hebrews crossed the ‘sea of reeds’. Most Jews agree on this. After all, the first 5 books of the bible are theirs.”

The following response was given…(by an American Pastor)

The first five books are theirs? Um, no. Moses was a Christian. Sorry.

Apparently Moses also invented time travel and/or had access to a Tardis since he became a Christian more than 1500 years before Jesus Christ was even supposedly born…sigh…Idiots! :(

4 GlutenFreeJesus  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 10:54:07am

Guns and Israel. Both perfect in their eyes.

5 piratedan  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 10:58:32am

par for the course, because they have the guidebook for life, the Old Testament, it covers everything from the treatment of women (they’re chattel to the desires of men) to car repairs (don’t own one). Bunch of sanctimonious fucktards.

6 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:00:24am

Those people truly are nuts.

Maybe we could deed some land in Antarctica for them to populate so they’d leave the rest of us alone.

7 abolitionist  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:03:11am

re: #6 Justanotherhuman

Those people truly are nuts.

Maybe we could deed some land in Antarctica for them to populate so they’d leave the rest of us alone.

Getting the surveyor’s markers into the dirt could be costly.

8 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:09:21am

re: #7 abolitionist

Getting the surveyor’s markers into the dirt could be costly.

Put them all on an ice sheet; they wouldn’t know the difference.

9 Dr Lizardo  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:10:35am

re: #2 KettleKat

Wingnuts arrogance knows no bounds. Now they’re telling Jews that they’re doing Judaism wrong?

My surprise, etc.

10 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:12:05am
11 Dr Lizardo  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:12:21am

re: #3 ausador

Who else would know that Moses was actually a Christian (and apparently a gentile)?

In answer to this post…

The following response was given…(by an American Pastor)

The first five books are theirs? Um, no. Moses was a Christian. Sorry.

Apparently Moses also invented time travel and/or had access to a Tardis since he became a Christian more than 1500 years before Jesus Christ was even supposedly born…sigh…Idiots! :(

lolwut?!

12 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:13:03am

From Sarah’s quote of herself, at the link:

Benny Lau, the religious Zionist rabbi of Jerusalem’s Rambam Synagogue, retorted that equating abortion with murder was “irresponsible”

Absolutely. By the same token, banning insurance coverage for abortion, banning federal funding of abortion, and stigmatization of abortion are also irresponsible.

13 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:13:24am

re: #11 Dr Lizardo

Apparently Moses also invented time travel and/or had access to a Tardis since he became a Christian more than 1500 years before Jesus Christ was even supposedly born…sigh…Idiots! :(

lolwut?!

Welcome to the Religious Right.

14 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:15:04am

Oh, fucking grow up, Madonna, you idiot.

Madonna Apologizes For Using the N-Word Along With an Instagram Photo of Her Son Rocco

eonline.com

15 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:15:44am
16 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:16:57am

Also from the link:

The brochures, Cohen assures me, do not mention Jesus, as proselytizing in Israel is illegal when done in exchange for a material enticement, or to minors without their parents’ consent.

That sounds like a very good idea.

17 Dr Lizardo  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:17:28am

re: #13 Varek Raith

lolwut?!

Welcome to the Religious Right.

Wow. Just wow. That’s just shake my head kookiness.

18 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:18:14am

re: #15 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

OK, it’s Conor; I’ll take your word for it totally.

19 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:18:56am

re: #18 Justanotherhuman

OK, it’s Conor; I’ll take your word for it totally.

Is the author’s name all I need to know? Please don’t make me RTWT!

20 jaunte  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:21:01am
” a system of mass surveillance on hundreds of millions of innocents “

I know, right? It keeps serving ads to me about stuff I’ve looked at on the internet.

21 abolitionist  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:24:44am

re: #15 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

My view of the article reads as follows:

That is egregious historical malpractice. In fact, King George’s colonial overseers and the general warrants they enforced are much closer analogues to domestic-surveillance efforts today. Had colonial governors had access to five years of communications metadata and “two-hop” network analysis, it is highly likely that they would’ve arrested the Founding Fathers, tried them for treason, and sentenced them to death for their crimes.

22 Stanley Sea  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:24:58am

Sorry ot, but cats.

23 jaunte  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:25:21am
“…the sensational way in which these disclosures have come out has often shed more heat than light, while revealing methods to our adversaries that could impact our operations in ways that we may not fully understand for years to come.”
nytimes.com
24 missliberties  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:26:18am

I wonder what Jim Hagee thinks about this?

25 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:27:10am
26 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:28:14am

re: #21 abolitionist

Er, you do realize that Twitter has a limit on how many characters you can post, yes?

27 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:31:00am

re: #25 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

The very first words contain an assumption, “For critics of the surveillance state…”

The US can hardly be called a “surveillance state”.

28 abolitionist  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:34:13am

re: #26 Charles Johnson

Er, you do realize that Twitter has a limit on how many characters you can post, yes?

So you were quoting a tweet but giving a link to the article? I don’t tweet; I follow links. I must have misunderstood “Yes, he actually wrote that.”

29 Kragar  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:35:30am
30 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:39:16am
31 jaunte  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:41:29am

The PRISM of King George by Conor Friedersdorf Turtledove.

32 Kragar  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:42:29am

What if King George had ninjas?

What if King George had T-Rexs?

33 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:42:36am

If King George had the Death Star…

34 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:42:39am

re: #19 wrenchwench

Is the author’s name all I need to know? Please don’t make me RTWT!

He stomps his little foot a lot at the injustices of this horrible country all the time. Instead of voting for Obama again, he voted for….wait for it—Gary Johnson and showed his true libertarian bona fides.

35 jaunte  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:43:09am

re: #33 Varek Raith

“That’s no moon. That’s Jamaica.”

36 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:43:52am
37 ausador  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:46:18am

re: #29 Kragar

[Embedded content]

They chop each other up with axes too! Haven’t you ever seen “Reefer Madness” ???

38 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:46:44am

Fuck you again, CC. Was that State money?

39 abolitionist  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:47:12am

Charles, you said yesterday, “… I’m not going to get into playing dueling analogies …”

40 Kragar  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:52:52am


Maher then quoted from Snowden’s “open letter to the people of Brazil” last month, in which Snowden said programs like the NSA’s surveillance efforts “were never about terrorism” but were instead about “social control, and diplomatic manipulation.”

“That’s crazy,” Maher told Greenwald. “They were about stopping terrorism. They may have gone too far. But everybody in the government isn’t out to get you.”

Greenwald further argued that the reporting enabled by Snowden’s information showed that the NSA had the ability to “slow down the internet” by storing data long enough to search through a person’s search history and correspondence.

“He’s a 29 years old who’s not a trained politician,” Greenwald continued. “He doesn’t have aides whispering in his ear what he should say. He’s not adept at that. That’s what makes him so impressive — it was an act of conscience.”

“No one is arguing with that Glenn,” Maher said, cutting in. “What I said is, every time he opens his mouth, he always says something f*cking nuts. When he says, ‘They know every friend you’ve ever discussed something with,’ we’ll just have to agree to disagree on what’s f*cking nuts.”

41 RealityBasedSteve  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:56:01am

re: #39 abolitionist

Charles, you said yesterday, “… I’m not going to get into playing dueling analogies …”

If Charles played dueling analogies it would be with light sabers.

RBS

42 jaunte  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:57:13am

re: #40 Kragar

“No, Bill, what’s nuts is the fact that you think that’s nuts,” said Greenwald

That’s some really advanced lawyerly debating technique.
“No, U!!!”

43 abolitionist  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:57:36am

re: #41 RealityBasedSteve

If Charles played dueling analogies it would be with light sabers.

RBS

IPV4 packets are rather like light sabers.

44 RealityBasedSteve  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 11:59:57am

re: #40 Kragar

[Embedded content]
“He’s a 29 years old who’s not a trained politician,” Greenwald continued. “He doesn’t have aides whispering in his ear what he should say. He’s not adept at that. That’s what makes him so impressive — it was an act of conscience.”

So Greenwald takes on the job of playing Grimma Wormtongue to Snowden (who isn’t a Theoden by any measure) out of the goodness of his heart. GMAFB!

RBS

45 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 12:00:52pm

re: #34 Justanotherhuman

He stomps his little foot a lot at the injustices of this horrible country all the time. Instead of voting for Obama again, he voted for….wait for it—Gary Johnson and showed his true libertarian bona fides.

Gary Johnson who voted for Chuck Baldwin and the Constitution Party himself. Scratch a dudebro, hear a fascist cry.

46 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 12:01:57pm
He’s a 29 years old who’s not a trained politician,” Greenwald continued. “He doesn’t have aides whispering in his ear what he should say. He’s not adept at that. That’s what makes him so impressive — it was an act of conscience.

So which is the bigger farce in this statement, that Greenwald himself was acting as Snowden’s handler and chopping/filtering what Snowden said, or that Snowden is now under FSB guard such that anything he says has to be taken with skepticism.

47 Tigger2  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 12:07:05pm

Must be hard being a wingnut these days they just can’t get a break.

48 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 12:12:31pm

re: #6 Justanotherhuman

Those people truly are nuts.

Maybe we could deed some land in Antarctica for them to populate so they’d leave the rest of us alone.

NO WAY, because they would inevitably stumble across The Thing, and get themselves infested/assimilated/whatever-the-hell-it-does (probably while proselytizing to it) and then when they/it went on a missionary trip to the unsaved heathen lands, we’d all be fucked for sure.

49 thedopefishlives  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 12:24:15pm

re: #47 Tigger2

Must be hard being a winger these days they just can’t get a break.

Can’t get a clue, either.

50 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 12:26:02pm

These people remind us why our Constitution was big on separation of Church and State. Argue your interpretation of Holy Scripture all you want in church or in private, but when it comes to making laws, we rely on reasoned and logical discourse.

51 Eclectic Cyborg  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 12:26:23pm

You know, forget abortion, forget same sex marriage, forget homosexuality.

It should be this awful Christian attitude towards Jews that disturbs me most.

I’m trying to think of some more eloquent way to ask this but I can’t, so here goes:

What the fuck is wrong with these people?

52 team_fukit  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 12:29:20pm

So if American conservatives are willing to put aside abortion to support Israel, we just need to find ways to connect all of our policy desires to Israel somehow… like six degrees of Israel!

53 thedopefishlives  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 12:30:22pm

re: #52 team_fukit

So if American conservatives are willing to put aside abortion to support Israel, we just need to find ways to connect all of our policy desires to Israel somehow… like six degrees of Israel!

Yeah, but then you get people complaining about the Zionist lobby, and then we’re right back where we began: Zionist lizardoid overlords.

54 ausador  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 12:31:47pm

re: #48 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

NO WAY, because they would inevitably stumble across The Thing, and get themselves infested/assimilated/whatever-the-hell-it-does (probably while proselytizing to it) and then when they/it went on a missionary trip to the unsaved heathen lands, we’d all be fucked for sure.

It creeps and crawls and rolls across the floor;
It slips and slides and oozes under the door…
(sorry, too lazy to look up the actual song lyrics, but that is fairly close)

Oh wait that’s the “Blob,” not the “Thing,” sorry, nevermind… ;)

55 petesh  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 12:31:48pm

re: #40 Kragar

Charles Pierce has a “five-minute” rule about the Pauls — they often sound sane at first but after five minutes they always say something batshit crazy (I think he’s a bit generous). Snowden falls under a similar rule (two mins?).

56 thedopefishlives  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 12:34:51pm

re: #51 Eclectic Cyborg

You know, forget abortion, forget same sex marriage, forget homosexuality.

It should be this awful Christian attitude towards Jews that disturbs me most.

I’m trying to think of some more eloquent way to ask this but I can’t, so here goes:

What the fuck is wrong with these people?

They’ve been subject to generations of mental conditioning in the great right-wing religious machine. Inventing persecution complexes to justify their me-centric brand of “Christianity”.

57 AlexRogan  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 12:35:31pm

re: #1 Skip Intro

I”m sure the Israelis welcome being instructed on their religious laws by a RW Christian NJ.

re: #2 KettleKat

Wingnuts arrogance knows no bounds. Now they’re telling Jews that they’re doing Judaism wrong?

If it weren’t so condescending and patronizing, this attempt at Jew-splaining by RWNJ “Christians” would be somewhat hilarious.

As it is, it’s patently offensive.

58 Stanley Sea  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 12:39:07pm

re: #55 petesh

If wrenchwench hasn’t already, welcome hatchling.

59 Eclectic Cyborg  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 12:40:35pm

I really wish RWNJ support for Israel ran deeper than “Hey, we really don’t give a shit about this country, but we need it to stay put so Jesus can come back.”

60 thedopefishlives  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 12:45:02pm

re: #59 Eclectic Cyborg

I really wish RWNJ support for Israel ran deeper than “Hey, we really don’t give a shit about this country, but we need it to stay put so Jesus can come back.”

To be fair, they don’t give a shit about anybody but themselves. They just mask it in a thin veneer of religiosity so they don’t come across as complete assholes. Problem is, when things like this come out, the cracks show in the veneer.

61 AlexRogan  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 12:45:28pm

re: #51 Eclectic Cyborg

You know, forget abortion, forget same sex marriage, forget homosexuality.

It should be this awful Christian attitude towards Jews that disturbs me most.

I’m trying to think of some more eloquent way to ask this but I can’t, so here goes:

What the fuck is wrong with these people?

To be sure, it’s not necessarily a general “Christian attitude”, but there are large chunks of Christianity that are rife with it.

It’s really dead simple: IMO, many Christian evangelicals don’t really give a flying fuck about Israelis (Jews, Muslims, or anyone else beside fellow evangelicals) as human beings. To them, Israeli Jews and Israel is simply a means to an end to fulfill the (completely fucked up) End Times prophecies in Revelations.

Anything that interferes with that is anathema.

62 Mattand  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 12:52:33pm
63 Ace-o-aces  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 12:57:20pm

re: #52 team_fukit

So if American conservatives are willing to put aside abortion to support Israel, we just need to find ways to connect all of our policy desires to Israel somehow… like six degrees of Israel!

I’ve often thought Obamacare would garner more support if we started calling it “Israeli-style healthcare”.

64 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 1:00:45pm

re: #48 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

NO WAY, because they would inevitably stumble across The Thing, and get themselves infested/assimilated/whatever-the-hell-it-does (probably while proselytizing to it) and then when they/it went on a missionary trip to the unsaved heathen lands, we’d all be fucked for sure.

“raptured” should be the word…

65 Kragar  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 1:03:31pm
66 Kragar  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 1:05:38pm

Got a birthday party with 6th grade girls starting any minute.

I’m hiding

67 Stanley Sea  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 1:06:35pm

re: #66 Kragar

Got a birthday party with 6th grade girls starting any minute.

I’m hiding

Smart move.

68 Kragar  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 1:07:47pm
69 Belafon  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 1:15:12pm
70 Dr Lizardo  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 1:15:49pm

re: #68 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Long live the fighters of Muad’Dib King George III !!

71 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 1:18:06pm
72 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 1:18:19pm

Speaking of internet security…

73 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 1:18:20pm

Bill Kristol gives insurmountable lead to the Clinton campaign:

“Hillary likely won’t run. If she does, she likely won’t win.
We think.

weeklystandard.com

74 allegro  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 1:22:32pm

re: #72 wrenchwench

Speaking of internet security…

LOL That’s just too real! It ‘splains why part of my yahoo password is YahooSux.

75 thedopefishlives  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 1:23:28pm

re: #66 Kragar

Got a birthday party with 6th grade girls starting any minute.

I’m hiding

That’s the “I’m leaving the house for a weekend” type of man-mergency.

76 abolitionist  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 1:34:29pm

re: #72 wrenchwench

Speaking of internet security…

[Embedded content]

Insanely great post. If websites were more upfront about actual passwords requirements, password crackers could immediately know the limits of the search space, unfortunately. But I suspect the real reason is “Hey, we’d tell you we don’t support strong passwords, but we’re too cheap to do it right.”

77 Ming  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 1:35:21pm

re: #22 Stanley Sea

Most excellent! Always nice to see kitties who know they own the place.

78 Eclectic Cyborg  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 1:50:17pm

re: #72 wrenchwench

Security measures like that are just a largely hopeless effort to try and protect people from themselves.

79 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 1:50:49pm

re: #72 wrenchwench

That is almost as good as: drowssap.

80 Ming  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 1:51:21pm

re: #50 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)

These people remind us why our Constitution was big on separation of Church and State. Argue your interpretation of Holy Scripture all you want in church or in private, but when it comes to making laws, we rely on reasoned and logical discourse.

I’m always impressed by how our Founding Fathers, facing conflict with Great Britain (which was quite the military power at the time), took care to craft a Second Amendment, making sure that the colonists would be able to resist.

And yet, even in the face of looming war (which didn’t really stop until 1814), our Founding Fathers put one amendment BEFORE the Second Amendment: the First Amendment, which begins as follows: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…”

America’s Founders weren’t naive about what a religious-based government could do to their precious new country. I only wish one could say the same about more public figures today, both in Israel and the United States.

81 Jay C  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 1:58:41pm

Why is it that seeing any Internet post or article begin with “American Conservatives Say…” is usually a dead giveaway that there will be something ignorant or oblivious expressed….

82 RealityBasedSteve  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 1:58:48pm

re: #79 PhillyPretzel

That is almost as good as: drowssap.

But not as good as: P@$$w0rd

RBS

83 RealityBasedSteve  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 2:08:07pm

re: #81 Jay C

Why is it that seeing any Internet post or article begin with “American Conservatives Say…” is usually a dead giveaway that there will be something ignorant or oblivious expressed….

Past performance does not guarantee future results, but…

“The only way to reduce the number of nuclear weapons is to use them.” ~ Rush Limbaugh

“Carbon dioxide is portrayed as harmful. But there isn’t even one study that can be produced that shows that carbon dioxide is a harmful gas.” ~ Rep. Michelle Bachmann

”The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians.” ~ Pat Robertson

“Ground Zero Mosque supporters: doesn’t it stab you in the heart, as it does ours throughout the heartland? Peaceful Muslims, pls refudiate.” ~ Sarah Palin

“I think I was unprepared for war.” ~ George W. Bush

“We just want Jews to be perfected, as they say.” ~ Ann Coulter

RBS

84 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 2:09:06pm


From that link, written by Greenwald in 2005:

All in a single one-line post, Oliver Willis manages to perfectly illustrate the cheapest, most intellectually dishonest — and, for those who wield it in the immigration debate, the most self-destructive — form of argumentation.

Willis references a post by Kevin Drum at Washington Monthly, which quotes a letter from anti-illegal-immigration Congressman Tom Tancredo to his supporters in which Rep. Tancredo asks for help in what Tancredo calls the “struggle to preserve our national identity against the tide of illegal immigrants flooding the United States.” In response to Tancredo’s letter, Willis snidely writes:

Hey, Tom Tancredo … Just say “white power” and get it off your chest.

So, there’s Willis’ self-satisfied decree, in its vapid entirety. According to Willis (and many of Drum’s commentators, if not Drum himself), anyone who believes that it’s important for a nation to be comprised of citizens who have at least some joint national allegiance and a minimal common foundation — never mind a common language in which they can communicate with one another — is a White Supremacist bigot.

[…]

Snidely spitting out the “racist” insult as part of the illegal immigration debate is nothing more than a cheap and lazy way to irrationally smear people who espouse a certain view for the purpose of shutting down debate. And in this case, the smear Willis attempts — that to believe in the importance of “national identity” is to make you a “white power” racist — does not withstand even the most minimal scrutiny.

To begin with, people of countless different races, religions and national origins are as purely and consummately American as it gets. That’s because “national identity,” by definition, is a function of one’s beliefs, goals and attitudes, not one’s skin color or ethnicity. There is simply nothing about being, say, black, or of El Salvadoran descent, that constitutes, in any way, even a theoretical impediment to being an “American” in terms of one’s national identity. To assert that those who speak of the need for a common “national identity” are somehow necessarily speaking in racist code is an absurd non-sequitur.

[…]

There is some irony and nuance here. GG is bitching about Oliver Willis calling Tom Tancredo a white supremacist. Greenwald is stupid enough to think that’s not true, and whiny dudebro enough to think it’s about ‘shutting down the conversation’.

Willis also called Charles Johnson a racist some years ago, and he was wrong in that case, so there’s the irony. The nuance is that, yes, in theory, one can oppose illegal immigration and NOT be a racist, but you have to be as ignorant, or self-absorbed, or whatever, as Greenwald to think that there are (more than one or two) opponents to legalizing immigrants who are NOT racists.

This kind of seals it for me that Greenwald thinks Mexicans aren’t American enough:

Current illegal immigration - whereby unmanageably endless hordes of people pour over the border in numbers far too large to assimilate, and who consequently have no need, motivation or ability to assimilate - renders impossible the preservation of any national identity. That is so for reasons having nothing whatever to do with the skin color or origin of the immigrants and everything to do with the fact that what we end up with are segregated groups of people with allegiences to their enclaves, an inability to communicate, cultural perspectives incompatible with prevailing American culture, and absolutely nothing to bind them in any way to what we know as the United States.

85 GlutenFreeJesus  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 2:09:21pm

re: #55 petesh

Charles Pierce has a “five-minute” rule about the Pauls — they often sound sane at first but after five minutes they always say something batshit crazy (I think he’s a bit generous). Snowden falls under a similar rule (two mins?).

Like FOID that’s fallen on the floor… 2 minutes. 5 minutes. No matter how long it lays there, it’s still filthy.

86 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 2:13:46pm

You can pre-order Greenwald’s book about Snowden.

No Place to Hide: Edward Snowden, the NSA, and the U.S. Surveillance State

They already know how many pages are in it, so it must be done. I may or may not read it, but either way, I look forward to submitting a review to Amazon.

87 Archangelus  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 2:16:22pm

Dear Dr. Yoest, on behalf of myself and most if not all of the Israeli and US Jews I know (most of whom would be seriously nasty) allow me to express the following heartfelt sentiment: לך תזדיין, יא בן זונה חוצפן מתנשא זבל שכמותך.

No love,
Archangelus + quite a lot of Jews from around the world

88 thedopefishlives  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 2:23:10pm

re: #86 wrenchwench

You can pre-order Greenwald’s book about Snowden.

No Place to Hide: Edward Snowden, the NSA, and the U.S. Surveillance State

They already know how many pages are in it, so it must be done. I may or may not read it, but either way, I look forward to submitting a review to Amazon.

Oh noes, teh ebil gubmint is reading my emails and my Facebooks!

[Clutches at pearls.]

89 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 2:24:45pm

re: #87 Archangelus

Dear Dr. Yoest, on behalf of myself and most if not all of the Israeli and US Jews I know (most of whom would be seriously nasty) allow me to express the following heartfelt sentiment: לך תזדיין, יא בן זונה חוצפן מתנשא זבל שכמותך.

No love,
Archangelus + quite a lot of Jews from around the world

For all the trashing I do on Google, I do use it happily at times. Like being able to highlight a bit of Hebrew and getting a translation after a search …

:thumbup: for the sentiment.

90 RealityBasedSteve  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 2:25:08pm

re: #87 Archangelus

Dear Dr. Yoest, on behalf of myself and most if not all of the Israeli and US Jews I know (most of whom would be seriously nasty) allow me to express the following heartfelt sentiment: לך תזדיין, יא בן זונה חוצפן מתנשא זבל שכמותך.

I had to google translate the hebrew, but I agree 100%.

RBS

91 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 2:27:59pm

re: #89 William Barnett-Lewis

For all the trashing I do on Google, I do use it happily at times. Like being able to highlight a bit of Hebrew and getting a translation after a search …

:thumbup: for the sentiment.

I have the app that allows me to highlight the text and left-click for the option to translate with Google. Did your translation have the word ‘spam’ in it?

92 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 2:30:41pm

re: #87 Archangelus

I cannot get a translation. If it is the equivalent of “Fold it into 5 corners and put it where the sun does not shine” I agree.

93 Archangelus  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 2:35:03pm

re: #90 RealityBasedSteve

I had to google translate the hebrew, but I agree 100%.

RBS

Figured it was safer to do it like that and have the curious take it to Google Translate than to risk getting it stuck down or even banned on account of language (and that was far more polite than i really thought to write in the first place)..

94 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 2:35:12pm

re: #91 wrenchwench

I have the app that allows me to highlight the text and left-click for the option to translate with Google. Did your translation have the word ‘spam’ in it?

No.
I highlighted it and searched for the phrase. Then “this page is in Hebrew. Would you like to translate it?” Clicking yes yields a very colorful expression.

95 RealityBasedSteve  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 2:36:04pm

re: #91 wrenchwench

I have the app that allows me to highlight the text and left-click for the option to translate with Google. Did your translation have the word ‘spam’ in it?

I also got spam in my translation, but other alternative words are garbage, junk and trash. All would be applicable I think.

RBS

96 RealityBasedSteve  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 2:37:19pm

re: #93 Archangelus

Figured it was safer to do it like that and have the curious take it to Google Translate than to risk getting it stuck down or even banned on account of language (and that was far more polite than i really thought to write in the first place)..

and all the LGF scanners work left to right, so you’re safe. /grin

RBS

97 thedopefishlives  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 2:37:27pm

re: #91 wrenchwench

I have the app that allows me to highlight the text and left-click for the option to translate with Google. Did your translation have the word ‘spam’ in it?

Mine had trash in it. A very delightful expression.

98 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 2:38:37pm

re: #94 William Barnett-Lewis

No.
I highlighted it and searched for the phrase. Then “this page is in Hebrew. Would you like to translate it?” Clicking yes yields a very colorful expression.

I tried that, and google asks:

Did you mean: לך תזדיין, יא בן זונה חוצפן ומתנשא זבל שכמוך
Search Results

It comes out very similar, but with ‘trash’ instead of ‘spam’.

99 Archangelus  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 2:40:32pm

re: #92 PhillyPretzel

I cannot get a translation. If it is the equivalent of “Fold it into 5 corners and put it where the sun does not shine” I agree.

In a nutshell: “Go **** yourself, you ****** ***** piece of trash ***** arrogant **** ******* shmuck.”

Not as vulgar as some of the Israeli expressions I know that originally came to mind - which would have been fitting, but which would have certainly been deleted had they been put here (modern Hebrew as spoken in Israel gets VERY colorful at times, to say the least)

100 Archangelus  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 2:41:30pm

re: #98 wrenchwench

I tried that, and google asks:

It comes out very similar, but with ‘trash’ instead of ‘spam’.

Odd on the spam part - it quite literally and accurately means trash.

101 thedopefishlives  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 2:41:37pm

re: #99 Archangelus

In a nutshell: “Go **** yourself, you ****** ***** piece of trash ***** arrogant **** ******* shmuck.”

Not as vulgar as some of the Israeli expressions I know that originally came to mind - which would have been fitting, but which would have certainly been deleted had they been put here (modern Hebrew as spoken in Israel gets VERY colorful at times, to say the least)

B-b-but Jews are Christians, they can’t swear!

*ducks*

102 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 2:42:44pm

re: #99 Archangelus

Thanks. :)

103 Archangelus  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 2:47:41pm

re: #101 thedopefishlives

They can’t swear!

LOL, i’ve actually heard that said before - by folks who clearly never set foot in Israel ever…

The use of vulgarity in the spoken language is actually VERY common, even the use of “Hebritized” forms of English curses (especially F**k, which is transliterated and written in hebrew as is quite commonly).
It should be pointed out that since there are so many Jews from so many countries who came to live in Israel over the years, the language has absorbed and made common numerous expressions, words and curses from other languages - all of which have become “ordinary” to many if not most Israelis (if i had to rank the “infiltration” of curse words assimilated over the years based on their popularity, it’d be English at the top, then Arabic, Russian, and Polish/Yiddish)

104 Pie-onist Overlord  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 4:20:14pm

I only just now read this article since I was doing Teh Shabbat all day.

What Archangelus said. I’m trying to come up with a Yiddish equivalent.

105 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 4:21:07pm

re: #104 Pie-onist Overlord

I only just now read this article since I was doing Teh Shabbat all day.

What Archangelus said. I’m trying to come up with a Yiddish equivalent.

No obscenities until there are 3 stars in the sky.

106 sagehen  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 4:39:03pm

re: #104 Pie-onist Overlord

I only just now read this article since I was doing Teh Shabbat all day.

What Archangelus said. I’m trying to come up with a Yiddish equivalent.

If you’re going with Yiddish, it has to be considerably more colorful than any paltry Hebrew cursing.

107 petesh  Sat, Jan 18, 2014 10:10:10pm

re: #58 Stanley Sea

ww did, but thanks anyway


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