Programmer Who Introduced ‘Heartbleed’ Bug Speaks

“Quite trivial”
Image via Shutterstock

The Sydney Morning Herald has a piece on the man who made a lot of Internet system administrators’ lives miserable this week, the German programmer who introduced the Heartbleed bug into the OpenSSL code.

There’s been way too much embarrassing noobish speculation from some quarters of the journalistic arena that the NSA might have planted this bug deliberately, years ago, and has been spying on their emails and cat pictures ever since, but no — developer Robin Seggelmann says it was “a simple programming error,” as I had assumed.

The type of programming mistake he describes is known as a “bounds checking error.” They’re depressingly common and are often the cause of serious security problems.

Mr Seggelmann, of Münster in Germany, said the bug which introduced the flaw was “unfortunately” missed by him and a reviewer when it was introduced into the open source OpenSSL encryption protocol over two years ago.

“I was working on improving OpenSSL and submitted numerous bug fixes and added new features,” he said.

“In one of the new features, unfortunately, I missed validating a variable containing a length.”

And about that noobish speculation:

A number of conspiracy theorists have speculated the bug was inserted maliciously.

Mr Seggelmann said it was “tempting” to assume this, especially after the disclosure by Edward Snowden of the spying activities conducted by the US National Security Agency and others.

“But in this case, it was a simple programming error in a new feature, which unfortunately occurred in a security relevant area,” he said. “It was not intended at all, especially since I have previously fixed OpenSSL bugs myself, and was trying to contribute to the project.”

Despite denying he put the bug into the code intentionally, he said it was entirely possible intelligence agencies had been making use of it over the past two years.

“It is a possibility, and it’s always better to assume the worst than best case in security matters, but since I didn’t know the bug until it was released and [I am] not affiliated with any agency,” Mr Seggelmann said.

Seggelmann is correct on that last point; the really awful part of Heartbleed is that it leaves almost no trace it grabbed everything in your web server’s memory. (And I only say “almost no trace” because at this point I don’t believe anyone has a system for detecting it, but it might be possible by analyzing server logs.)

Since the bug has been deployed in the OpenSSL service on countless web servers for more than two years, it’s not wild speculation to think it’s probably already been exploited, and national security services are usually among the first to find these things; but I’m less worried about the NSA than I am about criminal hacking gangs who operate with tacit approval from the Russian and Chinese governments.

And this is a great time to remind everyone that it would be an excellent idea to change your LGF password now (and don’t reuse a password you’ve used somewhere else!), because we have completed all the necessary steps to make sure our servers are no longer vulnerable to this exploit.

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126 comments

1 FemNaziBitch  Apr 10, 2014 2:10:56pm

Tell me, when it takes all your info, does it categorize it and file everything where someone might want to find it easily?

I have a hard getting upset about someone getting virtual warehouse’s full of files. Unless there is some really high-level way to search and find.

2 makeitstop  Apr 10, 2014 2:21:39pm

I just changed my password, first time since joining here.

Feels like I put on a new pair of socks.

3 Charles Johnson  Apr 10, 2014 2:23:19pm

One of the main developer sites on the web, StackOverflow, is actually named for a bounds checking error.

4 goddamnedfrank  Apr 10, 2014 2:23:54pm

On a project like SSL is code really only reviewed once? If true that’s kind of shocking. Especially considering the wide ranging financial impact it has.

Clinical drug trial data is gathered at the source doctor’s office then entered into computer twice independently,then reviewed, and verified again before it goes on to more thorough scrubbing and statistical analysis. Then it’s randomly audited. All designed to detect various species of errata.

5 Bubblehead II  Apr 10, 2014 2:25:47pm

re: #2 makeitstop

I just changed my password, first time since joining here.

Feels like I put on a new pair of socks.

This will be the second time I changed mine. Both times due to a potential security breach.

6 goddamnedfrank  Apr 10, 2014 2:27:05pm

re: #1 FemNaziBitch

Tell me, when it takes all your info, does it categorize it and file everything where someone might want to find it easily?

I have a hard getting upset about someone getting virtual warehouse’s full of files. Unless there is some really high-level way to search and find.

amazon.com is still affected. Has been for two years. With a target that high level involved motive is out there for somebody to sift through it all for the good stuff.

7 Charles Johnson  Apr 10, 2014 2:28:44pm

re: #4 goddamnedfrank

Yeah, it still happens though. I’ll never be surprised by the capacity of humans to fuck shit up.

8 Charles Johnson  Apr 10, 2014 2:29:48pm
9 klys  Apr 10, 2014 2:30:20pm

re: #6 goddamnedfrank

amazon.com is still affected. Has been for two years. With a target that high level involved motive is out there for somebody to sift through it all for the good stuff.

Amazon is not.

Amazon Web Services is.

Clarity on this is important.

10 Charles Johnson  Apr 10, 2014 2:33:19pm

What a lot of programmers forget is that when you program in C you’re actually rooting around in the RAM of the computer. That’s why it’s called a “low-level” language — you have access to the bare metal. With great power comes great responsibility, and it’s more important than ever these days to be very aware of security in all code that runs on the web.

11 Bulworth  Apr 10, 2014 2:33:23pm
There’s been way too much embarrassing noobish speculation from some quarters of the journalistic arena that the NSA might have planted this bug deliberately, years ago, and has been spying on their emails and cat pictures ever since, but no — developer Robin Seggelmann says it was “a simple programming error,” as I had assumed.

But of course the NSA would have someone say that!

12 darthstar  Apr 10, 2014 2:33:27pm
13 darthstar  Apr 10, 2014 2:34:51pm

re: #12 darthstar

This is fucking awesome.

Larger version here:
humon.deviantart.com

14 Flounder  Apr 10, 2014 2:36:13pm

Days like these I am glad that I stop by LGF to get the straight poop.

15 Flounder  Apr 10, 2014 2:37:55pm

re: #8 Charles Johnson

Little bastards girdled all of my new apple trees!

16 dog philosopher  Apr 10, 2014 2:38:18pm

“In one of the new features, unfortunately, I missed validating a variable containing a length.”

i’ve had a notion for a while of putting together a talk titled Software Engineering As A Moral Discipline. and the reason is this: software engineers, and i guess other kinds of engineers as well, are required to take criticism well, and expect it at any minute. engineers who are uncomfortable with having their code criticized, their flaws pointed out to them, or the reasons for their designs subjected to close and relentless examination, that is, engineers with fragile egos who have difficulty admitting that they made a mistake or were wrong about something, will not survive in the business

some common rules of thumb for engineers might sound like this:

- blame yourself first. nothing is more embarrassing than making a fuss about some defect, only to discover in the end that you put it in

- be passionate about what you do, care about it, own it - up to exactly the point where the group decision is for you to get rid of the part that (usually) you care about most passionately. at that point, throw it overboard as ordered without a second thought and without pouting or whining

- be happy - happy! - when your errors and stupidities are relentlessly exposed at code review time. “wow, you’re right, that’s not correct!! it’s really good that we found it now, before we were really embarrassed by having our customers find it out for us!!”

it takes a little adjustment to get yourself to react well to all criticism, but as a life lesson i think it’s well worth it

17 Targetpractice  Apr 10, 2014 2:38:54pm

re: #12 darthstar

This is fucking awesome.

There will come soft rains and the smell of the ground,
And swallows circling with their shimmering sound;

And frogs in the pools, singing at night,
And wild plum trees in tremulous white,

Robins will wear their feathery fire,
Whistling their whims on a low fence-wire;

And not one will know of the war, not one
Will care at last when it is done.

Not one would mind, neither bird nor tree,
If mankind perished utterly;

And Spring herself, when she woke at dawn,
Would scarcely know that we were gone.

- “There Will Come Soft Rains,” Sara Teasdale, 1920.

18 EPR-radar  Apr 10, 2014 2:40:54pm

re: #12 darthstar

Good find. I’m very fond of basing arguments for environmentalism 100% on human self-interest. (There are other valid arguments of course, but self-interest is probably the best way to persuade fence sitters and soft skeptics).

E.g., life will most certainly go on no matter what we end up doing to cause climate change. What is in question is what level of human civilization (if any) will persist.

19 dog philosopher  Apr 10, 2014 2:44:18pm

re: #4 goddamnedfrank

On a project like SSL is code really only reviewed once? If true that’s kind of shocking. Especially considering the wide ranging financial impact it has.

Clinical drug trial data is gathered at the source doctor’s office then entered into computer twice independently,then reviewed, and verified again before it goes on to more thorough scrubbing and statistical analysis. Then it’s randomly audited. All designed to detect various species of errata.

ope source projects like ssl hypothetically benefit from extensive peer review - this is often touted as one of the main benefits of open source software

but the review is entirely voluntary and apparently never happened in this particular case

20 Flounder  Apr 10, 2014 2:44:47pm

re: #17 Targetpractice

Will humans go out with a bang? Or a whimper?

21 Lidane  Apr 10, 2014 2:45:21pm

This should end well:

22 klys  Apr 10, 2014 2:49:08pm

re: #19 dog philosopher

ope source projects like ssl hypothetically benefit from extensive peer review - this is often touted as one of the main benefits of open source software

but the review is entirely voluntary and apparently never happened in this particular case

Well. It did. Once.

I’m reasonably certain that at least two pairs of eyes are required on all code in addition to the developer’s at my husband’s office. Of course, that software is not free.

In some things, you do get what you pay for.

23 darthstar  Apr 10, 2014 2:49:43pm

re: #19 dog philosopher

ope source projects like ssl hypothetically benefit from extensive peer review - this is often touted as one of the main benefits of open source software

but the review is entirely voluntary and apparently never happened in this particular case

At my previous company we built source-code analysis tools, byte code analysis tools, and runtime analysis tools. We often tested open-source projects as part of our internal QA (not to fix the vulnerabilities, but to ensure our product could find them). We also validated some of the finds by exploiting the code internally. It’s made me a bit paranoid about security flaws, so I did my own audit of our external servers the last two days - found a couple of vulnerabilities, and now our admins are doing full audits, applying patches, and reporting the results.

24 Dr Lizardo  Apr 10, 2014 2:52:38pm

re: #17 Targetpractice

There will come soft rains and the smell of the ground,
And swallows circling with their shimmering sound;

And frogs in the pools, singing at night,
And wild plum trees in tremulous white,

Robins will wear their feathery fire,
Whistling their whims on a low fence-wire;

And not one will know of the war, not one
Will care at last when it is done.

Not one would mind, neither bird nor tree,
If mankind perished utterly;

And Spring herself, when she woke at dawn,
Would scarcely know that we were gone.

- “There Will Come Soft Rains,” Sara Teasdale, 1920.

Youtube Video

25 darthstar  Apr 10, 2014 2:53:44pm

DERP!

26 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 10, 2014 2:54:15pm

re: #17 Targetpractice

Thank you for sharing that. I love it.

27 Chrysicat  Apr 10, 2014 2:56:09pm

re: #130 dog philosopher

More News Heralding The Imminent Death Of California Which Will Soon Be A Giant Desert Populated Only By Unemployed People On Welfare

Aerospace giant Boeing Co., which for years has been cutting its workforce in Southern California, announced that it plans to increase its engineering workforce in Long Beach and Seal Beach by 1,000 positions over the next two years.

It is a surprising announcement from the plane maker, which has 1,800 commercial engineers in Long Beach and Seal Beach. The company said earlier in the week that it would shutter its C-17 production line three months earlier than planned in mid-2015.

After years of moving work away from Southern California, Boeing has signaled its intentions to reinforce its presence. Last year, Boeing said it would move about 675 jobs to the region — many from the Puget Sound area around Seattle.

In May, Boeing announced the establishment of a new engineering design center for commercial aircraft. At that time, it also announced that engineering support for out-of-production airplanes would be based at the center.

The company’s announcement Thursday indicates that much of the work on next-generation aircraft will transition from Washington state to California by the end of 2015.

“We will be expanding our presence in Southern California to create a site dedicated to a superior customer experience,” Lynne Thompson, a Boeing commercial airplanes vice president, said in a statement. “This move will allow us to tap into existing engineering talent in California to expand on our outstanding customer support and align resources in a single location.”

Depending on how many McDonnell-Douglas people are still there in supervisory roles, this could mean as much Douglas DNA in future models as Boeing. If that’s so, they’re gonna regret killing the 717, as they could have used it to build a flight-cert family around, and operators seemed to like it until the 9/11 travel contraction.,.

28 thedopefishlives  Apr 10, 2014 2:56:47pm

re: #10 Charles Johnson

What a lot of programmers forget is that when you program in C you’re actually rooting around in the RAM of the computer. That’s why it’s called a “low-level” language — you have access to the bare metal. With great power comes great responsibility, and it’s more important than ever these days to be very aware of security in all code that runs on the web.

This is why I’m a fan of low-level languages being taught early in Computer Science curriculums. Many of them have jumped ship to the managed languages - Java, C#/vb.net, etc. And in my mind, it is much easier to go from an unmanaged programming language to a managed one, than the other way ‘round. You learn early and often how pointer and array errors can cause serious and unexpected side effects. Yes, C/C++ is not as friendly to learn for a beginner than Java, but let’s face it - if you’re in a computer science program, you should not be caring about how friendly your first programming language is. You are going to be exposed to all manner of vile contraptions in your career, you might as well grow some balls and learn to embrace the suck.

29 klys  Apr 10, 2014 2:59:11pm

re: #28 thedopefishlives

This is why I’m a fan of low-level languages being taught early in Computer Science curriculums. Many of them have jumped ship to the managed languages - Java, C#/vb.net, etc. And in my mind, it is much easier to go from an unmanaged programming language to a managed one, than the other way ‘round. You learn early and often how pointer and array errors can cause serious and unexpected side effects. Yes, C/C++ is not as friendly to learn for a beginner than Java, but let’s face it - if you’re in a computer science program, you should not be caring about how friendly your first programming language is. You are going to be exposed to all manner of vile contraptions in your career, you might as well grow some balls and learn to embrace the suck.

First three classes at my current institution of higher education:

Java
C++
C

And they do extensive testing of things like bounds checks using the autograder in that C class.

30 Charles Johnson  Apr 10, 2014 3:00:31pm

Just changed my main Google password.

31 Charles Johnson  Apr 10, 2014 3:01:19pm
32 thedopefishlives  Apr 10, 2014 3:01:49pm

re: #29 klys

First three classes at my current institution of higher education:

Java
C++
C

And they do extensive testing of things like bounds checks using the autograder in that C class.

The first language we learned at my college (and I don’t know if it’s still that way) was C++. Period. If you survived that, we branched out a little bit, but the core of our education was C++ with the occasional drop into C for when we did the Linux kernel module in our operating systems class. Granted, this was before .Net became big, but it was during Java’s heyday and we really didn’t do a lot with that. I’m kind of glad, in retrospect. C++ programming taught me to respect the pointer.

33 klys  Apr 10, 2014 3:02:47pm

re: #30 Charles Johnson

Just changed my main Google password.

I have two-factor authentication enabled on those accounts.

It can be a giant pain, but it also means the password side freaks me out a little less.

34 dog philosopher  Apr 10, 2014 3:04:05pm

re: #23 darthstar

At my previous company we built source-code analysis tools, byte code analysis tools, and runtime analysis tools. We often tested open-source projects as part of our internal QA (not to fix the vulnerabilities, but to ensure our product could find them). We also validated some of the finds by exploiting the code internally. It’s made me a bit paranoid about security flaws, so I did my own audit of our external servers the last two days - found a couple of vulnerabilities, and now our admins are doing full audits, applying patches, and reporting the results.

altho source code analysis tools cannot of course find everything, i find them really helpful and i think they’re really cool. the thing is, even though i have worked in some name brand shops, i’ve personally never seen anyplace where they are applied consistently. even regular human code review is highly variable in implementation, not to mention often skipped

personally, i favor full human code review for all checkins, and a group code review for new modules (the pgmr narrates his code line by line to 3-5 other engineers), but i don’t always get it

often, there’s “no time” to do it right

in agile shops, the entire profession of QA is deprecated, speed is valued much more than correctness, and programmers are expected to be their own QA by writing unit test code for everything. unfortunately, badly written unit test code does nothing but validate the expectations of the programmer subroutine by subroutine, and integration and application level testing is neglected entirely

35 EPR-radar  Apr 10, 2014 3:05:07pm

re: #32 thedopefishlives

The first language we learned at my college (and I don’t know if it’s still that way) was C++. Period. If you survived that, we branched out a little bit, but the core of our education was C++ with the occasional drop into C for when we did the Linux kernel module in our operating systems class. Granted, this was before .Net became big, but it was during Java’s heyday and we really didn’t do a lot with that. I’m kind of glad, in retrospect. C++ programming taught me to respect the pointer.

Back in the day at Rensselaer (RPI), the required intro programming was a two course sequence. The first course used Fortran 77 and the second course used Fortran 66. Remarkably silly, even for academia.

36 danarchy  Apr 10, 2014 3:05:40pm

re: #10 Charles Johnson

What a lot of programmers forget is that when you program in C you’re actually rooting around in the RAM of the computer. That’s why it’s called a “low-level” language — you have access to the bare metal. With great power comes great responsibility, and it’s more important than ever these days to be very aware of security in all code that runs on the web.

Heh, back when I was taking microprocessor design in college, low-level meant assembly. C was most definitely considered a high level language. Kids these days… ;)

37 klys  Apr 10, 2014 3:05:54pm

re: #32 thedopefishlives

The first language we learned at my college (and I don’t know if it’s still that way) was C++. Period. If you survived that, we branched out a little bit, but the core of our education was C++ with the occasional drop into C for when we did the Linux kernel module in our operating systems class. Granted, this was before .Net became big, but it was during Java’s heyday and we really didn’t do a lot with that. I’m kind of glad, in retrospect. C++ programming taught me to respect the pointer.

They have a lot of non-CS students take the first quarter class, so I think having it in Java and teaching some of the broader concepts that way is part of their goal. Of course, the next quarter, you start learning pointers and seeing some of the mystique pulled away and then the third quarter it’s like HERE’S WHAT’S ACTUALLY HAPPENING and it made a lot of sense.

Although the backtranslate from Assembly to C on the final made me very grumpy. “You should be able to tell from the optimized code that this reference to some other string at address xxxxxxx is an empty string based on your knowledge of how well gdb knows strcmp!” Bull-fucking-shit.

38 Charles Johnson  Apr 10, 2014 3:06:02pm

re: #33 klys

I have two-factor authentication enabled on those accounts.

It can be a giant pain, but it also means the password side freaks me out a little less.

I tried two-factor authentication with Google for a little while but had to switch back because I use some other services that interact with my Google account (Jump Desktop iPhone app for one), and they were a major pain to get working with two-factor auth.

39 Chrysicat  Apr 10, 2014 3:06:23pm

re: #33 klys

I have two-factor authentication enabled on those accounts.

It can be a giant pain, but it also means the password side freaks me out a little less.

Two-factor here too.

Until I start getting stray text messages with an authent code, I’m gonna leave my Google and Yahoo passwords alone. It was hard enough coming up with new passwords for them after my MSN and Yahoo got brute-forced a few years ago.

40 Charles Johnson  Apr 10, 2014 3:07:18pm

re: #36 danarchy

Heh, back when I was taking microprocessor design in college, low-level meant assembly. C was most definitely considered a high level language. Kids these days… ;)

One of my first programming languages was 6502 assembly language. That’s how old I am.

41 thedopefishlives  Apr 10, 2014 3:07:45pm

re: #37 klys

They have a lot of non-CS students take the first quarter class, so I think having it in Java and teaching some of the broader concepts that way is part of their goal. Of course, the next quarter, you start learning pointers and seeing some of the mystique pulled away and then the third quarter it’s like HERE’S WHAT’S ACTUALLY HAPPENING and it made a lot of sense.

Although the backtranslate from Assembly to C on the final made me very grumpy. “You should be able to tell from the optimized code that this reference to some other string at address xxxxxxx is an empty string based on your knowledge of how well gdb knows strcmp!” Bull-fucking-shit.

Our non-CS students have their own “intro to comp sci” course; it was, when I was in school, taught in Visual Basic (!). I don’t know what they do with it now. It actually threw me for a loop because I declared my CS major when I registered for school, but the registrar didn’t catch that and put me in the intro class… I was bored stiff for about 2 weeks before the professor noticed me slacking off and corrected the mistake.

42 klys  Apr 10, 2014 3:08:07pm

re: #38 Charles Johnson

I tried two-factor authentication with Google for a little while but had to switch back because I use some other services that interact with my Google account (Jump Desktop iPhone app for one), and they were a major pain to get working with two-factor auth.

Yeah, some of the interaction stuff …I can understand that. I admit I don’t have it on *every* Google account but it is definitely on the one that interacts with all financial accounts, etc.

43 Targetpractice  Apr 10, 2014 3:09:11pm

re: #40 Charles Johnson

One of my first programming languages was 6502 assembly language. That’s how old I am.

So what was it like when dinosaurs roamed the Earth?

///

44 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 10, 2014 3:09:13pm

Planet of the Apes…it’s not a movie anymore…bwahahahaaa!

45 klys  Apr 10, 2014 3:10:15pm

re: #43 Targetpractice

So what was it like when dinosaurs roamed the Earth?

///

/waits for punchcard commentary

One of the professors I had, the computer he did his graduate work on is now at the Computer History Museum.

Not just the same model, the actual computer.

46 Targetpractice  Apr 10, 2014 3:11:16pm

re: #45 klys

/waits for punchcard commentary

One of the professors I had, the computer he did his graduate work on is now at the Computer History Museum.

Not just the same model, the actual computer.

One of those museums I’d love to visit, if I could ever afford to take the trip.

47 klys  Apr 10, 2014 3:11:56pm

re: #46 Targetpractice

One of those museums I’d love to visit, if I could ever afford to take the trip.

If/when you get out this way, give a holler. :) Maybe it can be the excuse the Bay Area lizards need for a meet-up.

48 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 10, 2014 3:13:13pm

re: #40 Charles Johnson

One of my first programming languages was 6502 assembly language. That’s how old I am.

I did the punch card programming thing (please do not fold, spindle or mutilate) back in the late 60s.

49 Targetpractice  Apr 10, 2014 3:13:47pm

re: #47 klys

If/when you get out this way, give a holler. :) Maybe it can be the excuse the Bay Area lizards need for a meet-up.

I’m an East Coast Lizard. Bit of a drive, if ya get my meanin’.

50 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 10, 2014 3:14:35pm

re: #45 klys

/waits for punchcard commentary

One of the professors I had, the computer he did his graduate work on is now at the Computer History Museum.

Not just the same model, the actual computer.

got ya covered in my #48.

51 klys  Apr 10, 2014 3:15:11pm

re: #49 Targetpractice

I’m an East Coast Lizard. Bit of a drive, if ya get my meanin’.

Just think of all the places you can see along the way!

But yeah, I know. Just saying if/when. :)

52 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 10, 2014 3:15:57pm

re: #49 Targetpractice

I’m an East Coast Lizard. Bit of a drive, if ya get my meanin’.

Take the train while we still have them!

53 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 10, 2014 3:16:47pm

re: #5 Bubblehead II

This will be the second time I changed mine. Both times due to a potential security breach.

This will be the third for me… first two times to forgetting what they were. (Ok, so I need a password manager)

RBS

54 Targetpractice  Apr 10, 2014 3:16:54pm

re: #52 Backwoods_Sleuth

Take the train while we still have them!

That’s on my bucket/win the lottery list.

55 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 10, 2014 3:20:01pm

OK, Chrome downloaded with no problems on hubby’s new laptop.
I’ve got his favorite apps set up on the Windows 8 nightmare start thing but, truth be told, Windows 8 is perfect for him because he is so clueless about anything computer-related (look in the dictionary for “appliance operator”…that’s his picture right there).
Downloading some game apps now for him.

56 darthstar  Apr 10, 2014 3:22:36pm

re: #30 Charles Johnson

Just changed my main Google password.

Got it, thanks!
//

57 darthstar  Apr 10, 2014 3:23:28pm

Must read: Chris Christie is Toast

politico.com

As Christie knows better than anyone, the feds don’t hand out immunity like pediatricians hand out lollipops. And neither judges nor parole boards appear to resist elderly incarceration; indeed, seniors are the fastest growing generational cohort in federal prisons. So if Samson is indicted and wants to die a free man, he probably has to give up something meaningful - i.e., Christie.

58 wrenchwench  Apr 10, 2014 3:29:25pm

re: #55 Backwoods_Sleuth

OK, Chrome downloaded with no problems on hubby’s new laptop.
I’ve got his favorite apps set up on the Windows 8 nightmare start thing but, truth be told, Windows 8 is perfect for him because he is so clueless about anything computer-related (look in the dictionary for “appliance operator”…that’s his picture right there).
Downloading some game apps now for him.

OK, I think I understand why I’m perfectly fine with Windows 8 now.

:-(

59 wrenchwench  Apr 10, 2014 3:31:42pm

On the other hand, I have a brother who translated a book on C from German to English, and it was so involved he got co-author credit on it.

60 klys  Apr 10, 2014 3:31:48pm

re: #58 wrenchwench

OK, I think I understand why I’m perfectly fine with Windows 8 now.

:-(

Or, you know, it means you don’t go out of your way looking for things to be offended/outraged over.

;)

Seriously, it’s an operating system. It has its quirks. Some people vehemently dislike them, some people don’t care. I am much more in the latter category, and if the start menu changes come along, I may finally upgrade my desktop to Win8 because there are definitely some nice features hidden in there.

61 Targetpractice  Apr 10, 2014 3:32:27pm

re: #57 darthstar

Must read: Chris Christie is Toast

politico.com

Thing is, how much you wanna bet that, between now and 2016, Christie will stop trying to run from the allegations and start screaming about a “hit job,” that Democrats are so “scared” of him that they’re investigating him despite his lawyer buddy’s report “exonerating” him?

62 wrenchwench  Apr 10, 2014 3:34:28pm

re: #60 klys

Or, you know, it means you don’t go out of your way looking for things to be offended/outraged over.

;)

Seriously, it’s an operating system. It has its quirks. Some people vehemently dislike them, some people don’t care. I am much more in the latter category, and if the start menu changes come along, I may finally upgrade my desktop to Win8 because there are definitely some nice features hidden in there.

63 Charles Johnson  Apr 10, 2014 3:35:16pm

Meanwhile…

64 Targetpractice  Apr 10, 2014 3:35:41pm
65 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 10, 2014 3:36:06pm

re: #58 wrenchwench

OK, I think I understand why I’m perfectly fine with Windows 8 now.

:-(

There is nothing wrong with being an “appliance operator”.
All hubby wants out of a computer and the internet is to look for stuff, be able to get to ebay and Amazon, check the weather forecast every morning, and generally everyday life stuff.
Windows 8 is perfect for him because all he has to do is click a tile and he’s where he wants to go.

66 darthstar  Apr 10, 2014 3:36:46pm

re: #61 Targetpractice

Thing is, how much you wanna bet that, between now and 2016, Christie will stop trying to run from the allegations and start screaming about a “hit job,” that Democrats are so “scared” of him that they’re investigating him despite his lawyer buddy’s report “exonerating” him?

It’s out of the Democrats’ hands now…the investigation is legal.

67 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 10, 2014 3:37:06pm

re: #63 Charles Johnson

Meanwhile…

[Embedded content]

I TOLD y’all…
it begins…

68 darthstar  Apr 10, 2014 3:37:39pm

re: #64 Targetpractice

HA!

69 Targetpractice  Apr 10, 2014 3:38:12pm

re: #66 darthstar

It’s out of the Democrats’ hands now…the investigation is legal.

You know as well as I do that, with a Democrat in the White House, any federal investigation against a Republican is automatically a “hit job.” Arpaio’s been making hay for years about how the DoJ is after him not because of his ruling his little fiefdom like a tinpot dictator, but because the AG is black and he’s white.

70 thedopefishlives  Apr 10, 2014 3:39:21pm

re: #63 Charles Johnson

Meanwhile…

[Embedded content]

He’s just out looking for Bigfoot.

71 Origuy  Apr 10, 2014 3:39:46pm

Where I work, critical code like this is inspected, not just reviewed. In an inspection, at least three people plus the author meet and go over the changes line by line. Someone other than the author reads it, paraphrasing. If the reader and the author disagree on the interpretation, you may have a defect. The inspectors are given the code in advance so that they can prepare and if they haven’t had a chance to prepare adequately, the inspection is postponed. Defects are logged and the moderator may review the subsequent changes with the author. The process doesn’t catch everything, but I think it would have caught this bug.

72 EPR-radar  Apr 10, 2014 3:39:50pm

re: #60 klys

OS wars rival console wars in terms of sheer pointlessness.

I’m lazy enough that I can’t be bothered to argue about something unless it bears on something that matters.

That said, the partially transparent top bars of windows that Apple has introduced are clearly inventions of the devil. ///

73 wrenchwench  Apr 10, 2014 3:39:52pm

re: #65 Backwoods_Sleuth

There is nothing wrong with being an “appliance operator”.
All hubby wants out of a computer and the internet is to look for stuff, be able to get to ebay and Amazon, check the weather forecast every morning, and generally everyday life stuff.
Windows 8 is perfect for him because all he has to do is click a tile and he’s where he wants to go.

I think ‘bike mechanic’ is close behind ‘appliance operator’ in that dictionary.

74 EPR-radar  Apr 10, 2014 3:41:09pm

re: #70 thedopefishlives

He’s just out looking for Bigfoot.

Escaped member of KS legislature majority…

75 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 10, 2014 3:42:02pm

re: #72 EPR-radar

OS wars rival console wars in terms of sheer pointlessness.

I’m lazy enough that I can’t be bothered to argue about something unless it bears on something that matters.

That said, the partially transparent top bars of windows that Apple has introduced are clearly inventions of the devil. ///

I used to love back in the Windows 9x days, going in changing the command shell to Progman. It made it look like old Win 3.1 My wife at the time wasn’t amused.

RBS

76 William Barnett-Lewis  Apr 10, 2014 3:42:14pm

re: #24 Dr Lizardo

[Embedded content]

Ah, thank you, I was about to go YouTube diving for a version of that story. I did that one as a dramatic reading once. It and “The Star” were the two I enjoyed performing the most.

77 darthstar  Apr 10, 2014 3:42:14pm
78 Targetpractice  Apr 10, 2014 3:43:41pm

re: #77 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Now I have to listen to days of wingnut crowing. Ugh.

79 thedopefishlives  Apr 10, 2014 3:44:22pm

re: #75 RealityBasedSteve

I used to love back in the Windows 9x days, going in changing the command shell to Progman. It made it look like old Win 3.1 My wife at the time wasn’t amused.

RBS

Bahahaha, I remember doing that. A couple of other geeks and I used to pull similar pranks on the library machines in high school. The librarian got so annoyed that she forbade us from entering the library on our lunch hours.

80 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 10, 2014 3:45:49pm

re: #73 wrenchwench

I think ‘bike mechanic’ is close behind ‘appliance operator’ in that dictionary.

I think you have false modesty. I know about Barnetts, UBI, just how complex it can actually get. (In my next life, I want to be a professional bike wrench / frame builder of custom recumbents).

RBS

81 William Barnett-Lewis  Apr 10, 2014 3:46:39pm

re: #32 thedopefishlives

The first language we learned at my college (and I don’t know if it’s still that way) was C++. Period. If you survived that, we branched out a little bit, but the core of our education was C++ with the occasional drop into C for when we did the Linux kernel module in our operating systems class. Granted, this was before .Net became big, but it was during Java’s heyday and we really didn’t do a lot with that. I’m kind of glad, in retrospect. C++ programming taught me to respect the pointer.

Boy I’m feeling old. First language was BASIC. Then 6800 ASM (no, not 68000, 8 bit 6800) then C or Pascal or something like that & then I finally found LISP and learned how much fun programming could really be. Picked up a little bit of lots of others since.

Much as I like Unix, I really wish Lisp had won. But Worse is Better…

82 thedopefishlives  Apr 10, 2014 3:47:29pm

re: #81 William Barnett-Lewis

Boy I’m feeling old. First language was BASIC. Then 6800 ASM (no, not 68000, 8 bit 6800) then C or Pascal or something like that & then I finally found LISP and learned how much fun programming could really be. Picked up a little bit of lots of others since.

Much as I like Unix, I really wish Lisp had won. But Worse is Better…

Ah, Lisp. I learned Lisp in my Intro to Artificial Intelligence course. I loved it. All of my classmates wished it a painful fiery death.

83 lawhawk  Apr 10, 2014 3:50:13pm

re: #57 darthstar

The federal investigations were always going to be the 800 pound gorilla in the whole controversy. You had Kelly fired and several others resigned. All have taken the 5th or sought immunity at different points, and now it’s a race to see who gets to spill the beans in a deal before everyone else.

Prosecutors will be weighing what kind of information they’re going to get from Kelly, Samson, Wildstein, or others.

If any of these three cut a deal, they’re going to bring the others down, and they’re going to have to name names of others who knew, were involved, and fill in the blanks on what else was going on. Christie’s political operation could well be gutted, even if Christie himself isn’t directly implicated.

84 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 10, 2014 3:51:31pm

I’m just a hatchling compared to you guys. Got my start with basic on a timex-sinclair 1000, then Fortran, x-based (dBase III), dBase III led me to Access, Access introduced me to Visual Basic for Applications (VBA), and from there my soul had been sublet, optioned to own, repacked and sold to Microsoft. VBA led to VB 5, and I started teaching it starting with VB6.

Don’t do much programming any more, mainly just utility apps to amuse me or do something that I want to do, but I can’t find the features I want in a commercial program. (or it just seems like it would be fun to write it).

RBS

85 wrenchwench  Apr 10, 2014 3:51:43pm

re: #80 RealityBasedSteve

I think you have false modesty. I know about Barnetts, UBI, just how complex it can actually get. (In my next life, I want to be a professional bike wrench / frame builder of custom recumbents).

RBS

I missed out on a free scholarship to UBI last week. They didn’t say who won, but they did say it wasn’t me. It would have been a certification course for experienced mechanics, and it was for women only.

I’ve worked with graduates of both programs, and have more respect for Barnetts. Also, one of the other sponsors of the scholarship is SRAM, and I hate them right now. I think the judges looked into my soul.

Frame building will always be beyond me. I took a one day welding course, and enjoyed it, but I’m not real good with straight lines and alignment.

86 Targetpractice  Apr 10, 2014 3:52:26pm

re: #83 lawhawk

The federal investigations were always going to be the 800 pound gorilla in the whole controversy. You had Kelly fired and several others resigned. All have taken the 5th or sought immunity at different points, and now it’s a race to see who gets to spill the beans in a deal before everyone else.

Prosecutors will be weighing what kind of information they’re going to get from Kelly, Samson, Wildstein, or others.

If any of these three cut a deal, they’re going to bring the others down, and they’re going to have to name names of others who knew, were involved, and fill in the blanks on what else was going on. Christie’s political operation could well be gutted, even if Christie himself isn’t directly implicated.

It’s like with Walker and John Doe, even if he is never directly implicated, the stench of corruption heaped all around Christie will scare off the big money. It’s why Jeb Bush is now being seen as a serious challenger to his title of “Most Moderate Candidate” for 2016.

87 dog philosopher  Apr 10, 2014 3:54:05pm

re: #81 William Barnett-Lewis

Boy I’m feeling old. First language was BASIC. Then 6800 ASM (no, not 68000, 8 bit 6800) then C or Pascal or something like that & then I finally found LISP and learned how much fun programming could really be. Picked up a little bit of lots of others since.

Much as I like Unix, I really wish Lisp had won. But Worse is Better…

i first studied computer science back in 1982. the regular teaching language was pascal, as implemented in the rsts and cyber operating systems running on pdp 11-70s

we also got lots of LISP, C, and the pdp assembler, macro-11

when i handed in my first LISP assignment, my teacher said “ah, good - i see you’ve learned how to think upside down and backwards”

88 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 10, 2014 3:54:08pm

re: #84 RealityBasedSteve

I’m just a hatchling compared to you guys. Got my start with basic on a timex-sinclair 1000, then Fortran, x-based (dBase III), dBase III led me to Access, Access introduced me to Visual Basic for Applications (VBA), and from there my soul had been sublet, optioned to own, repacked and sold to Microsoft. VBA led to VB 5, and I started teaching it starting with VB6.

Don’t do much programming any more, mainly just utility apps to amuse me or do something that I want to do, but I can’t find the features I want in a commercial program. (or it just seems like it would be fun to write it).

RBS

I still have my Timex Sinclair! Not sure exactly where it is in the computer graveyard here…but the companion plotter/printer is probably in the same place!

89 BeenHereAwhile  Apr 10, 2014 3:56:27pm

re: #63 Charles Johnson

Meanwhile…

[Embedded content]

Most folk don’t realize how dangerous a mature chimpanzee can be.

In addition to a nasty set of canine teeth, a mature chimpanzee is strong enough to rip off one of your arms.

It’s a case of humans got the brain power and chimps got the brawn.

90 Skip Intro  Apr 10, 2014 3:58:25pm

re: #2 makeitstop

I just changed my password, first time since joining here.

Feels like I put on a new pair of socks.

Me too, then I forgot it.

Changed it back to the one I remember.

So sue me.

91 darthstar  Apr 10, 2014 4:03:39pm

re: #89 BeenHereAwhile

Most folk don’t realize how dangerous a mature chimpanzee can be.

In addition to a nasty set of canine teeth, a mature chimpanzee is strong enough to rip off one of your arms.

It’s a case of humans got the brain power and chimps got the brawn.

That last line is debatable…then again, they were being held captive by Kansans, who don’t believe in evolving, so maybe the playing field was level.

92 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 10, 2014 4:05:35pm

re: #89 BeenHereAwhile

Most folk don’t realize how dangerous a mature chimpanzee can be.

In addition to a nasty set of canine teeth, a mature chimpanzee is strong enough to rip off one of your arms.

It’s a case of humans got the brain power and chimps got the brawn.

Best description I heard of that was that you had the strength of a NFL Linebacker, and the emotional control of a 2 year old.

RBS

93 dog philosopher  Apr 10, 2014 4:07:18pm

re: #92 RealityBasedSteve

Best description I heard of that was that you had the strength of a NFL Linebacker, and the emotional control of a 2 year old.

RBS

what’s the emotional control of an nfl linebacker?

94 darthstar  Apr 10, 2014 4:07:21pm
95 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 10, 2014 4:07:59pm

re: #89 BeenHereAwhile

Most folk don’t realize how dangerous a mature chimpanzee can be.

In addition to a nasty set of canine teeth, a mature chimpanzee is strong enough to rip off one of your arms.

It’s a case of humans got the brain power and chimps got the brawn.

One word: Travis

96 Romantic Heretic  Apr 10, 2014 4:09:45pm

re: #10 Charles Johnson

What a lot of programmers forget is that when you program in C you’re actually rooting around in the RAM of the computer. That’s why it’s called a “low-level” language — you have access to the bare metal. With great power comes great responsibility, and it’s more important than ever these days to be very aware of security in all code that runs on the web.

C is pretty much why I gave up being a programmer. There was something about it I just did not ‘get’. I was always uncomfortable with it and it never failed to unpleasantly surprise me.

I much preferred Niklaus Wirth’s work like Pascal and Oberon.

But it was obvious the future was going to be C and I was never going to be good at C, so I left the business.

97 Romantic Heretic  Apr 10, 2014 4:12:35pm

re: #12 darthstar

No, you don’t understand. The planet isn’t in danger. We are in danger. We don’t have the power to destroy life on this planet. We don’t have the power to save it either.

We might have the power to save ourselves.

Michael Crichton

98 Justanotherhuman  Apr 10, 2014 4:16:43pm

Fuck these Russian provocateurs and their most outstanding ignorance.

99 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 10, 2014 4:19:17pm
100 thedopefishlives  Apr 10, 2014 4:19:50pm

re: #99 Backwoods_Sleuth

Hey, uhh, I think you might’ve gotten a scratch on it somewhere.

101 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 10, 2014 4:21:21pm

re: #100 thedopefishlives

Hey, uhh, I think you might’ve gotten a scratch on it somewhere.

Looks like at least one of the wheels can get cleaned up…maybe…

102 Tigger2  Apr 10, 2014 4:21:27pm

re: #98 Justanotherhuman

Fuck these Russian provocateurs and their most outstanding ignorance.

[Embedded content]

Fuck the Russians that are Putin supporters, just wait until Putin’s done those people will be repressed as hell just like they were in the cold war days, the young people in Russia that never knew those days had better wake up.

103 EPR-radar  Apr 10, 2014 4:23:12pm

re: #96 Romantic Heretic

C is pretty much why I gave up being a programmer. There was something about it I just did not ‘get’. I was always uncomfortable with it and it never failed to unpleasantly surprise me.

I much preferred Niklaus Wirth’s work like Pascal and Oberon.

But it was obvious the future was going to be C and I was never going to be good at C, so I left the business.

I could cope with C for simple tasks, but C++ was impenetrable for me.

104 EPR-radar  Apr 10, 2014 4:24:06pm

re: #102 Tigger2

Fuck the Russians that are Putin supporters, just wait until Putin’s done those people will be repressed as hell just like they were in the cold war days, the young people in Russia that never knew those days had better wake up.

I’m sure there were similar young fools in Weimar Germany.

105 Tigger2  Apr 10, 2014 4:26:42pm

re: #104 EPR-radar

I’m sure there were similar young fools in Weimar Germany.

But did they have the history to look back on like the Russian youth do. I don’t remember much about Germany before the 2nd WW.

106 TedStriker  Apr 10, 2014 4:28:17pm

re: #99 Backwoods_Sleuth

oh jeez…

The Last Corvette Pulled From the Museum Sinkhole Looks Like A “Saw” Movie Victim

last corvette

2001 Malett Hammer Z06

Yeah, that’ll buff right out.

*cries*

107 Skip Intro  Apr 10, 2014 4:28:37pm

re: #103 EPR-radar

I could cope with C for simple tasks, but C++ was impenetrable for me.

Yup. I tried using C++ for Windows programming, but the damn long variable names and functions and library calls made it feel like I was programming in German.

108 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 10, 2014 4:28:38pm

re: #99 Backwoods_Sleuth

oh jeez…

The Last Corvette Pulled From the Museum Sinkhole Looks Like A “Saw” Movie Victim

last corvette

2001 Malett Hammer Z06

Yea, I don’t think that will buff out.

RBS

109 bratwurst  Apr 10, 2014 4:28:46pm
110 EPR-radar  Apr 10, 2014 4:29:23pm

re: #105 Tigger2

But did thy have the history to look back on like the Russian youth do. I don’t remember much about Germany before the 2nd WW.

Fools flocking to authoritarians because of lies, nationalism and scapegoating is as old as the hills. I’m sure that voices of sanity in Germany at the time pointed this out, to no effect in that particular case.

111 thedopefishlives  Apr 10, 2014 4:30:21pm

re: #107 Skip Intro

Yup. I tried using C++ for Windows programming, but the damn long variable names and functions and library calls made it feel like I was programming in German.

Well, Windows programming has always been, how to put it, “special”. I’ve recently been working on migrating code from an ancient MFC application. HUNGARIAN NOTATION!

112 klys  Apr 10, 2014 4:30:49pm

re: #72 EPR-radar

OS wars rival console wars in terms of sheer pointlessness.

I’m lazy enough that I can’t be bothered to argue about something unless it bears on something that matters.

That said, the partially transparent top bars of windows that Apple has introduced are clearly inventions of the devil. ///

HERETIC! THE CULT OF APPLE WILL BURN YOU NOW.

I’ve used Windows, Apple, Sun, Linux, whatever over the years. I currently run mostly Windows at home because everything integrates nicely and it’s easier to dick around with the hardware components on a Windows machine.

Also, Launchpad may have sent me back to Windows 7, which I quite like. Win8 I have more mixed feelings about, but it sounds like some of the upcoming changes may resolve that.

It would be nice to have panoramic wallpaper support for the two monitors built in.

113 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 10, 2014 4:31:11pm

Great read. It’s an example of how much the sanctions are hurting the Russians.

A Feast in Time of the Plague
While Vladimir Yakunin is on US sanctions list, his family is living large.

114 EPR-radar  Apr 10, 2014 4:31:17pm

re: #107 Skip Intro

Yup. I tried using C++ for Windows programming, but the damn long variable names and functions and library calls made it feel like I was programming in German.

My problem was that C++ seemed to have 5 or 6 different pointer-like entities, all of which differ in painfully subtle ways.

115 klys  Apr 10, 2014 4:32:30pm

I prefer longer variable and function names that are clear in what they refer to over short abbreviations that are going to be hell for someone else to decipher.

But that’s just me. And my opinion on best practices.

116 Tigger2  Apr 10, 2014 4:32:32pm

re: #110 EPR-radar

Fools flocking to authoritarians because of lies, nationalism and scapegoating is as old as the hills. I’m sure that voices of sanity in Germany at the time pointed this out, to no effect in that particular case.

You’re prob right, I just don’t understand that mindset I have bucked authority every chance I have gotten all my life.

117 TedStriker  Apr 10, 2014 4:33:38pm

re: #112 klys

HERETIC! THE CULT OF APPLE WILL BURN YOU NOW.

I’ve used Windows, Apple, Sun, Linux, whatever over the years. I currently run mostly Windows at home because everything integrates nicely and it’s easier to dick around with the hardware components on a Windows machine.

Also, Launchpad may have sent me back to Windows 7, which I quite like. Win8 I have more mixed feelings about, but it sounds like some of the upcoming changes may resolve that.

It would be nice to have panoramic wallpaper support for the two monitors built in.

Pssssst….Win8/Win8.1 has that.

118 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 10, 2014 4:34:18pm

and in a break from our programming history code walk, perhaps a light snack. Bacon Waffle Chicken Wings w/ maple syrup. (which I am so going to try and make this weekend)

Waffle Wings

RBS

119 klys  Apr 10, 2014 4:34:56pm

re: #117 TedStriker

Pssssst….Win8/Win8.1 has that.

I know. But I also want my start menu properly without having to install additional programs, and it doesn’t have that yet.

I run Win8 on a Surface Pro 2 and like it fine overall. But for my desktop I have particular quirks that I want.

120 Tigger2  Apr 10, 2014 4:35:16pm

re: #118 RealityBasedSteve

and in a break from our programming history code walk, perhaps a light snack. Bacon Waffle Chicken Wings w/ maple syrup. (which I am so going to try and make this weekend)

Waffle Wings

RBS

That’s sure something different.

121 thedopefishlives  Apr 10, 2014 4:38:13pm

re: #115 klys

I prefer longer variable and function names that are clear in what they refer to over short abbreviations that are going to be hell for someone else to decipher.

But that’s just me. And my opinion on best practices.

The best part is working at a company that sprinkles their code liberally with acronym soup. After the business has moved on from their infatuation with one acronym, people are left wondering what it refers to, and once they figure it out, all of a sudden people are itching to change it to the new hip buzzword. Often breaking something in the process!

122 EPR-radar  Apr 10, 2014 4:41:01pm

re: #116 Tigger2

You’re prob right, I just don’t understand that mindset I have bucked authority every chance I have gotten all my life.

I also don’t grok the authoritarian mindset, although I don’t usually buck the system. However, overwhelming evidence has convinced me that an alarming fraction of humanity really does want to cringe dog-like in the presence of its superiors, especially if they can then go out and bully everyone else into compliance as well.

The US seems to have as large a fraction of outright authoritarians as any other part of the developed world, so claims of an unusual devotion to freedom in the US would be another instance of delusions of American exceptionalism.

123 Skip Intro  Apr 10, 2014 4:45:44pm

re: #115 klys

I prefer longer variable and function names that are clear in what they refer to over short abbreviations that are going to be hell for someone else to decipher.

But that’s just me. And my opinion on best practices.

That’s was common way back in my day. Comments, too.

The thing is, when you’re working on a TTY terminal with no macros to save long variables and functions you just don’t use long variables and functions.

You kids don’t know what you missed. I remember working with our sysadmin on a program to backup our systems (on tape - look it up) and I think we had 40 or 50 printout pages of code just doing all the required system checks before we ever wrote a line of code to actually do the backup.

Needless to say we didn’t use many function names like Check_To_See_If_The_Tape_Is_On_The_Reel().

124 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 10, 2014 4:47:13pm

re: #32 thedopefishlives

The first language we learned at my college (and I don’t know if it’s still that way) was C++. Period. If you survived that, we branched out a little bit, but the core of our education was C++ with the occasional drop into C for when we did the Linux kernel module in our operating systems class. Granted, this was before .Net became big, but it was during Java’s heyday and we really didn’t do a lot with that. I’m kind of glad, in retrospect. C++ programming taught me to respect the pointer.

The first programming language that I learned was FORTRAN.

Then: Pascal, PL/1, Basic and assembler.

I took one class in COBOL just because it was required.

125 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 10, 2014 5:00:06pm

re: #124 Pie-onist Overlord

The first programming language that I learned was FORTRAN.

Then: Pascal, PL/1, Basic and assembler.

I took one class in COBOL just because it was required.

Roughly the same for me. FORTRAN IV (on cards), then Pascal, Assembler (on a VAX), with some other languages later. I took COBOL in a summer class as a lark since I did not get credit for it.

My employment ended up depending on knowing COBOL in the late 80s.

126 lawhawk  Apr 10, 2014 5:19:42pm

re: #99 Backwoods_Sleuth

I’m thinking that a little bondo and wax might restore that bad boy to its former splendor. /


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Birth Control Works
6 days, 9 hours ago
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First Aid Kit - My Silver LiningFirst Aid Kit perform My Silver Lining at Glastonbury 2017
Thanos
1 week ago
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Jangada - Claudia Villela Quartet at Kuumbwa Jazz Jangada written by Claudia Villela, performed by the Claudia Villela Quartet at Kuumbwa Jazz, Santa Cruz, CA, April 15, 2013 Claudia Villela - vocals, piano, percussionCelso Alberti - drums/percussionJeff Buenz - guitarsGary Brown - bass videography by John Mountaudio ...
Thanos
1 week ago
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Should NYPD Lawyers Step in to Prosecute? Protestors Say No. NEW YORK (AP) -- Arminta Jeffryes was arrested while protesting police brutality. Then the police department played an unusual role in her court case. A New York Police Department lawyer stepped in to prosecute the jaywalking charge against her, ...
Thanos
1 week ago
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