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315 comments

1
lawhawk  Mar 29, 2017 • 1:23:33pm

No.

Next question?

2
Franklin  Mar 29, 2017 • 1:24:58pm
3
Kragar  Mar 29, 2017 • 1:30:03pm
4
Franklin  Mar 29, 2017 • 1:33:08pm
5
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 29, 2017 • 1:34:52pm

re: #2 Franklin

[Embedded content]

NYT article today:

6
Franklin  Mar 29, 2017 • 1:36:20pm

re: #5 Backwoods_Sleuth

NYT article today:

[Embedded content]

Well I’ll be damned.

7
goddamnedfrank  Mar 29, 2017 • 1:37:10pm

re: #2 Franklin

8
Franklin  Mar 29, 2017 • 1:38:19pm

Here’s the tweet of the day (or yesterday depending on your understanding of the space-time continuum):

9
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 29, 2017 • 1:39:21pm

re: #6 Franklin

Well I’ll be damned.

whenever he comes up with statements like that, there’s always a media source behind it.

10
EPR-radar  Mar 29, 2017 • 1:42:30pm

Trump is sane by definition because psychopathy is richly rewarded in the US plutocracy.

11
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 1:45:31pm

re: #2 Franklin

[Embedded content]

“Great ass, Frederick Douglass said she was at least an eight.”

12
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 29, 2017 • 1:45:42pm
13
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 1:46:21pm

re: #12 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Doesn’t look good for DOJ.

14
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 29, 2017 • 1:47:13pm

re: #13 HappyWarrior

Doesn’t look good for DOJ.

Judge Watson was not amused with Readler.

15
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 29, 2017 • 1:47:20pm
16
jaunte  Mar 29, 2017 • 1:49:03pm
17
Dr. Matt  Mar 29, 2017 • 1:49:06pm

re: #2 Franklin

Fake President Donald Trump joined a room full of women at a women’s empowerment event Wednesday in the final days of Women’s History Month. He talked about infrastructure and the Department of Transportation, heralded his cabinet full of women and rattled off some names of a few famous women.

“My cabinet is full of really incredible women leaders,”
Trump told the room. It’s unclear what he meant by the word “full,” however. In fact, Trump’s cabinet is more white and more male than any cabinet since Ronald Reagan.

From: rawstory.com

This sexual deviant has no business being left in a room full of woman.

18
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 1:50:18pm

re: #17 Dr. Matt

This sexual deviant has no business being left in a room full of woman.

He has one woman cabinet member I believe….

19
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 29, 2017 • 1:50:42pm
20
Belafon  Mar 29, 2017 • 1:51:52pm

re: #17 Dr. Matt

This sexual deviant has no business being left in a room full of woman.

Should he have his wife/daughter with him?

21
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 29, 2017 • 1:52:39pm
22
Romantic Heretic  Mar 29, 2017 • 1:52:40pm

re: #10 EPR-radar

Trump is sane by definition because psychopathy is richly rewarded in the US plutocracy.

It’s richly rewarded everywhere. That’s because it’s much easier to succeed, that is gain wealth and power, if you don’t give a shit.

Psychopaths are the honey badgers of humanity.

23
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 29, 2017 • 1:53:42pm
24
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 29, 2017 • 1:55:27pm

re: #18 HappyWarrior

He has one woman cabinet member I believe….

Two: McMahon and Chao

25
Decatur Deb  Mar 29, 2017 • 1:55:28pm

re: #9 Backwoods_Sleuth

whenever he comes up with statements like that, there’s always a media source behind it.

Or a fortune cookie.

26
allegro  Mar 29, 2017 • 1:56:44pm

re: #24 Backwoods_Sleuth

Two: McMahan and Chao

+ Devos

27
Decatur Deb  Mar 29, 2017 • 1:57:02pm

from the dead thread:

re: #86 Bubblehead II

Nixon? He was paranoid as fuck, but at least he wasn’t as bat shit crazy as tRump.

I suspect that no one has ever written down just how crazy a president is allowed to be.

28
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 1:57:18pm

re: #24 Backwoods_Sleuth

Two: McMahon and Chao

DeVos too.

29
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 1:57:55pm

re: #26 allegro

+ Devos

That’s who I was thinking of. I had forgotten Chao and that SBA is cabinet level.

30
wrenchwench  Mar 29, 2017 • 1:59:09pm

re: #27 Decatur Deb

from the dead thread:

I suspect that no one has ever written down just how crazy a president is allowed to be.

It’s time to draw the line, while we can still use chalk and ink, not blood.

31
lawhawk  Mar 29, 2017 • 1:59:15pm

re: #18 HappyWarrior

Chao and Devos.

Two. That’s the fewest women in a cabinet since Reagan.

32
EPR-radar  Mar 29, 2017 • 1:59:41pm

re: #27 Decatur Deb

from the dead thread:

Nixon? He was paranoid as fuck, but at least he wasn’t as bat shit crazy as tRump.

I suspect that no one has ever written down just how crazy a president is allowed to be.

As I recall, the formal diagnostic criteria for many psychiatric disorders require the patient to experience distress from the condition, or to be unable to function in society.

Sociopathic narcissists enjoy their condition, and are quite capable of functioning in society as the more reprehensible members of the ruling class.

33
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:00:24pm

re: #31 lawhawk

Chao and Devos.

Two. That’s the fewest women in a cabinet since Reagan.

Right.

34
Decatur Deb  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:01:38pm

re: #32 EPR-radar

As I recall, the formal diagnostic criteria for many psychiatric disorders require the patient to experience distress from the condition, or to be unable to function in society.

Sociopathic narcissists enjoy their condition, and are quite capable of functioning in society as the more reprehensible members of the ruling class.

If you can get 60 million people to vote for you, you are probably pretty well able to function in society.

Vox describes how a sausage is unmade:

vox.com

35
bratwurst  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:03:15pm

Hey, maybe some hope for me!

Pat Robertson: Multiple Sclerosis Is ‘Demonic’ And Can Be Healed Once Rebuked

Oh wait…

He told a viewer with MS to “check with an endocrinologist to see if there’s something, some chemical or something that could be done that would build up that immune system that you’ve got or if it’s something that you’re eating that’s causing a problem,”

He…uh…doesn’t actually know what MS is.

36
lawhawk  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:03:37pm

re: #33 HappyWarrior

Obama elevated it to a cabinet level position (though he also wanted to eliminate it by merging it into Department of Commerce, which went nowhere). If Trump continues to follow the Obama designation, then that’s 3.

37
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:04:23pm

re: #36 lawhawk

Obama elevated it to a cabinet level position (though he also wanted to eliminate it by merging it into Department of Commerce, which went nowhere). If Trump continues to follow the Obama designation, then that’s 3.

Right, thanks.

38
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:05:09pm

re: #35 bratwurst

Hey, maybe some hope for me!

Pat Robertson: Multiple Sclerosis Is ‘Demonic’ And Can Be Healed Once Rebuked

Oh wait…

He…uh…doesn’t actually know what MS is.

He really is an idiot and unfortunately a lot of people get their guidance from this idiot.

39
Decatur Deb  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:08:27pm

re: #35 bratwurst

Hey, maybe some hope for me!

Pat Robertson: Multiple Sclerosis Is ‘Demonic’ And Can Be Healed Once Rebuked

Oh wait…

He…uh…doesn’t actually know what MS is.

That should take some of the pressure off health insurance rates.

40
gocart mozart  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:08:34pm
41
Dr. Matt  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:09:11pm

And Donald Trump wants to reduce the Coast Guard’s’ budget

42
majii  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:10:00pm

re: #24 Backwoods_Sleuth

“Two: McMahon and Chao”

Let’s not forget Betsy DeVos who is totally unqualified to be Sec. of Education.

43
allegro  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:10:44pm

re: #41 Dr. Matt

And Donald Trump wants to reduce the Coast Guard’s’ budget

[Embedded content]

DIdn’t Tennessee Ernie Ford have a song about that?

44
KingKenrod  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:11:28pm

Nikki Haley is in the cabinet. UN Ambassador. Unless Trump demoted the position.

45
wrenchwench  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:12:28pm

re: #35 bratwurst

Hey, maybe some hope for me!

Pat Robertson: Multiple Sclerosis Is ‘Demonic’ And Can Be Healed Once Rebuked

Oh wait…

He…uh…doesn’t actually know what MS is.

ElmFmZCGYvUpOQmRLLBKgj9p4V6D0DEtND8AIBU8vmu9rBdfEqWXaft5PnvvQk7EuppoDKAsFmBtD04+p+kgTvH9wopjbzpdYd/W3EbOJ/hSL7Hm4jSxVTRsmTLl1WkxRZo/H9oaWu0=

46
EPR-radar  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:13:28pm

re: #34 Decatur Deb

If you can get 60 million people to vote for you, you are probably pretty well able to function in society.

Vox describes how a sausage is unmade:

vox.com

From what I saw of election 2016, Trump could still have won had he spent his time at his rallies playing with his own shit and calling the Democrats names.

47
Decatur Deb  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:14:30pm

re: #46 EPR-radar

From what I saw of election 2016, Trump could still have won had he spent his time at his rallies playing with his own shit and calling the Democrats names.

Perhaps it’s his voters who are unable to function in a society.

48
stpaulbear  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:15:09pm

re: #43 allegro

DIdn’t Tennessee Ernie Ford have a song about that?

…and what ‘d you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt.

49
Sir John Barron  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:15:48pm

re: #2 Franklin

Susan B. has been doing some really great work lately. Terrific.

50
EPR-radar  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:15:49pm

re: #47 Decatur Deb

Perhaps it’s his voters who are unable to function in a society.

They are certainly voting for barbarism and against civilization.

51
Decatur Deb  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:16:56pm

re: #50 EPR-radar

They are certainly voting for barbarism and against civilization.

People who think the Neolithic is a mistake, and want to try the old ways…

52
wrenchwench  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:18:21pm

re: #51 Decatur Deb

People who think the Neolithic is a mistake, and want to try the old ways…

Paleo! Paleo! Paleo!

I’d ‘wingnut’ tag it, but they don’t know what that is anyway.

53
Bubblehead II  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:18:58pm

re: #27 Decatur Deb

from the dead thread:

I suspect that no one has ever written down just how crazy a president is allowed to be.

True. But tRump is way worse than Nixon was at the start of his second term.

54
bratwurst  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:19:09pm

This man is VERY “pro-Israel”:

Oh, and look who is back on Fox today!

55
Dr. Matt  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:20:49pm

re: #34 Decatur Deb

If you can get 60 million people to vote for you, you are probably pretty well able to function in society.

Vox describes how a sausage is unmade:

vox.com

It’s pretty fucking amazing that such articles are even being published (on a site that isn’t Breitbart, Freeperville, or SMOTIville).

56
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:21:15pm

re: #54 bratwurst

This man is VERY “pro-Israel”:

[Embedded content]

Oh, and look who is back on Fox today!

[Embedded content]

Seek help asshole.

57
Jack Burton  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:21:58pm

re: #54 bratwurst

Oh, and look who is back on Fox today!

[Embedded content]

Tommy Devito? Did he bring his fuckin’ shine box?

58
Bubblehead II  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:23:06pm

Back in a while Lizards. Have an antenna to mount and, yes, a yard to mow. Even Idaho is getting a break (until tomorrow) from the shitty weather.

59
Decatur Deb  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:24:06pm

re: #55 Dr. Matt

Check it out—pretty civic-lesson stuff.

60
Dr. Matt  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:25:08pm

A president Pence would basically be the faux religious wingnuttery of a Palin and the faux fiscal conservatism of a Paul Ryan. 2018 can’t get here quick enough.

61
Decatur Deb  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:26:10pm

re: #60 Dr. Matt

A president Pence would basically be the faux religious wingnuttery of a Palin and the faux fiscal conservatism of a Paul Ryan. 2018 can’t get here quick enough.

And he could carve himself in stone with a couple or more Supreme Court nominations.

62
Dr. Matt  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:26:21pm

re: #59 Decatur Deb

Check it out—pretty civic-lesson stuff.

I did. Good article. And:

63
wrenchwench  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:30:08pm
64
KGxvi  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:31:16pm

I’m friends with one of my old senseis on FB. He’s kind of a wingnut, today he posted something about Tia Thompson a trans woman volleyball player in Hawaii who is planning on trying out for the Olympic team in 2020. Of course, many of the comments on the post were of the wingnutty “It’s a man” “that’s not fair having men play against women” etc etc etc variety. I’ve tried, rather rationally, I think, to explain the process and the effects of hormone replacement therapy. But again, responses are “nope, still a man.”

I can understand someone not understanding what transgender people go through. I can understand someone not understanding the science behind it. But I can’t understand, for the life of me, how anyone could be so intellectually incurious that they won’t take the time to do even the most basic reading on a subject (I mean to the point of the “nope still a man” comment was in response to, “do a google search for before and after photos).

65
Decatur Deb  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:31:56pm

re: #63 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

“Chief Justice Jefferson Beauregard Sessions The Third” just has a resonant ring to it.

66
Timothy Watson  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:34:10pm

re: #63 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

“Community policing”, in practice, is nothing more than putting lipstick on a pig and collecting those sweet, sweet federal grants.

67
allegro  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:34:49pm

re: #65 Decatur Deb

“Chief Justice Jefferson Beauregard Sessions The Third” just has a resonant ring to it.

Kinda like a wet fart has a resonant fragrance.

68
wrenchwench  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:36:23pm

re: #65 Decatur Deb

“Chief Justice Jefferson Beauregard Sessions The Third” just has a resonant ring to it.

You may be the lizard who has the ability to scare me the most.

69
Belafon  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:36:33pm

re: #64 KGxvi

I’m friends with one of my old senseis on FB. He’s kind of a wingnut, today he posted something about Tia Thompson a trans woman volleyball player in Hawaii who is planning on trying out for the Olympic team in 2020. Of course, many of the comments on the post were of the wingnutty “It’s a man” “that’s not fair having men play against women” etc etc etc variety. I’ve tried, rather rationally, I think, to explain the process and the effects of hormone replacement therapy. But again, responses are “nope, still a man.”

I can understand someone not understanding what transgender people go through. I can understand someone not understanding the science behind it. But I can’t understand, for the life of me, how anyone could be so intellectually incurious that they won’t take the time to do even the most basic reading on a subject (I mean to the point of the “nope still a man” comment was in response to, “do a google search for before and after photos).

I wonder what they would think of this woman: abcnews.go.com.

70
Decatur Deb  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:39:06pm

re: #68 wrenchwench

You may be the lizard who has the ability to scare me the most.

It’s not that pro-cannibalism thing again, is it?

71
TedStriker  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:40:44pm

re: #65 Decatur Deb

“Chief Justice Jefferson Beauregard Sessions The Third” just has a resonant ring to it.

Fuck Pennywise, that’s some scary nightmare fuel…

72
Timothy Watson  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:40:55pm

re: #69 Belafon

I wonder what they would think of this woman: abcnews.go.com.

I remember an episode of ER about that condition.

There was also Caster Semenya, who was allegedly intersex:
en.wikipedia.org

73
KGxvi  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:42:55pm

re: #62 Dr. Matt

Yes and no. If the president sends a letter to Congress saying he’s fit to serve he goes back to being president, if the objecting VP and cabinet members say no, then Congress has to decide, by 2/3 vote in each House that the president is unfit, and they have three weeks to do so. If they decide he’s unfit (either can’t get 2/3 vote or don’t vote within 3 weeks), the president goes back to presidenting, which likely will include firing any cabinet member who signed the letter.

74
wrenchwench  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:43:04pm

re: #70 Decatur Deb

It’s not that pro-cannibalism thing again, is it?

4EJihyOWBCrLsNr5r7PGa5Dcdih+kfinfJyjMqerDsplOV/E2KKhnWcruA1pAa8Jg7E2Bf/kugoSSUvI9k7TCJ2jj9m7d98YF/esYc5+DgoMCxNhzPC7O7vGegLPCJugAFV83tZSjnTJ/KTKlbEyJZnXTPLYEsu0nVmdMBkS7G+Gamyri+g8/Dqks8sAFp1qjDx4/JIi+hu7kjE6TCWXJApftA+yPzCWYBJl/uKaz4xtqL8nHfFsEb81+27pKUya08fl3dFr8W1q9yiG6U7ml9Gj+TjBX+fVBjqEQbsb2k8wbyGD2YIgiw==

75
Decatur Deb  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:45:15pm

re: #74 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

tOBQvtislOsbTaSOc9Mm1CNGZrnUKrPmCERNSX7bNJDKYyDYU1kRV9QwoGavXcupHdSt5EgEYxVCgpEv2tU5Ymnhhra8owNHcPmdIFRoNvSyz0CvK1EloA==

76
majii  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:45:29pm

re: #64 KGxvi

“I can understand someone not understanding what transgender people go through. I can understand someone not understanding the science behind it. But I can’t understand, for the life of me, how anyone could be so intellectually incurious that they won’t take the time to do even the most basic reading on a subject (I mean to the point of the “nope still a man” comment was in response to, “do a google search for before and after photos).”

What I can’t understand is how does another’s sexual orientation/identity impact their lives, and why can’t they mind their own business?

77
stpaulbear  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:45:30pm

re: #65 Decatur Deb

“Chief Justice Jefferson Beauregard Sessions The Third” just has a resonant ring to it.

The only good thing about that is that he’s 70 years old. He could only do maybe a decade’s worth of damage.

78
Romantic Heretic  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:47:41pm

re: #35 bratwurst

One can be reasonably certain that when Pat Robertson opens his mouth he will be opining on something he knows nothing about.

79
Decatur Deb  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:47:44pm

re: #77 stpaulbear

The only good thing about that is that he’s 70 years old. He could only do maybe a decade’s worth of damage.

We can rebuild him. We have the Cheneytronic heart. We can make him better than he was. Better, stronger, faster.

80
KGxvi  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:49:43pm

re: #61 Decatur Deb

And he could carve himself in stone with a couple or more Supreme Court nominations.

Ginsberg is 84, Kennedy is 81, Breyer is 79, and Thomas is 69. If any of the first three retire or shuffle off this mortal coil, the balance of the Court could shift drastically. I suspect that Gorsuch’s eventual elevation to the Court (assuming he gets the votes) would basically maintain the status quo ante balance. Had Clinton won, the most likely outcome for shifting the balance of the Court would have been her first nomination (assuming McConnell and the Republicans in the Senate weren’t so petty as to rush through Garland’s confirmation between the election and inauguration).

It is also entirely possible that if Ginsberg, Kennedy, and Breyer leave the Court before 2020, it could be a long while before there’s another vacancy on the Court.

81
FormerDirtDart  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:55:06pm
82
wrenchwench  Mar 29, 2017 • 2:55:23pm

Chatty cycle tourist headed to the ATM. This one will come back. He’s worked in three bike shops.

83
William Lewis  Mar 29, 2017 • 3:08:10pm

re: #79 Decatur Deb

We can rebuild him. We have the Cheneytronic heart. We can make him better than he was. Better, stronger, faster.

Martin Caidin is spinning in his grave fast enough to generate gigawatts at that one, DD.

84
gocart mozart  Mar 29, 2017 • 3:17:02pm

Some Italian funk/soul from the 70’s

Adriano Celentano L’unica Chance Hai Visto Mai’73

85
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 3:20:56pm

re: #81 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

More conservatve support for small government and individual rights I see.

86
caseyjr  Mar 29, 2017 • 3:26:47pm

re: #78 Romantic Heretic

One can be reasonably certain that when Pat Robertson opens his mouth he will be opining on something he knows nothing about.

Pat Robertson’s so old his GP is an Egyptologist.

87
Ace Rothstein  Mar 29, 2017 • 3:29:44pm

re: #57 Jack Burton

Tommy Devito? Did he bring his fuckin’ shine box?

Joe Pesci.

88
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 29, 2017 • 3:32:01pm

Conservative NeverTrumpers are close to discovering the truth about their fellow Conservatives…

89
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 29, 2017 • 3:33:34pm

re: #46 EPR-radar

From what I saw of election 2016, Trump could still have won had he spent his time at his rallies playing with his own shit and calling the Democrats names.

I thought that was what his rallies were.

90
Jack Burton  Mar 29, 2017 • 3:34:12pm

re: #87 Ace Rothstein

Joe Pesci.

That was the character’s name in the movie.

91
BeachDem  Mar 29, 2017 • 3:37:18pm

re: #24 Backwoods_Sleuth

Two: McMahon and Chao

And DeVos and Icky Nikki (not sure if UN Ambassador is a cabinet post, but there she is in the pic.)

92
Ace Rothstein  Mar 29, 2017 • 3:37:46pm

re: #90 Jack Burton

That was the character’s name in the movie.

I thought his last name was DeSimone.

93
Ace Rothstein  Mar 29, 2017 • 3:41:12pm

Last night, Trump said that fixing the health care law “is such an easy one.”

94
KGxvi  Mar 29, 2017 • 3:45:48pm

re: #91 BeachDem

And DeVos and Icky Nikki (not sure if UN Ambassador is a cabinet post, but there she is in the pic.)

Haley and McMahon are not technically cabinet members. They’re “cabinet level officials” but the cabinet made up of the heads of:

State
Treasury
Justice
Defense
Agriculture
Commerce
Labor
HHS
HUD
Transportation
Energy
Education
VA
Homeland Security

95
Jack Burton  Mar 29, 2017 • 3:49:32pm

re: #92 Ace Rothstein

I thought his last name was DeSimone.

That was the real life person the character was based on. Other than Henry Hill, they all had their last names changed. Tommy DeSimone was Tommy DeVito in the movie. Jimmy Burke was Jimmy Conway in the movie.

96
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 29, 2017 • 3:51:46pm

I have to sign up for Medicare.

I. Am. Officially. Old.

97
bratwurst  Mar 29, 2017 • 3:52:03pm

HOT TAKE INCOMING!

It’s from The Federalist.

98
Targetpractice  Mar 29, 2017 • 3:53:21pm

re: #97 bratwurst

HOT TAKE INCOMING!

[Embedded content]

It’s from The Federalist.

Two words: Chelsea Clinton.

99
Ace Rothstein  Mar 29, 2017 • 3:53:31pm

re: #95 Jack Burton

That was the real life person the character was based on. Other than Henry Hill, they all had their last names changed. Tommy DeSimone was Tommy DeVito in the movie. Jimmy Burke was Jimmy Conway in the movie.

“That’s what the FBI could never understand. That what Paulie and the organization does is offer protection for people who can’t go to the cops. That’s it. That’s all. They’re like the police department for wiseguys.”

A movie I will never, ever get sick of.

100
Jack Burton  Mar 29, 2017 • 3:55:04pm

re: #99 Ace Rothstein

“That’s what the FBI could never understand. That what Paulie and the organization does is offer protection for people who can’t go to the cops. That’s it. That’s all. They’re like the police department for wiseguys.”

A movie I will never, ever get sick of.

When I got the DVD of it, I think I watched it once or twice a week for a few years.

101
Skip Intro  Mar 29, 2017 • 3:56:06pm

re: #94 KGxvi

Haley and McMahon are not technically cabinet members. They’re “cabinet level officials” but the cabinet made up of the heads of:

State
Treasury
Justice
Defense
Agriculture
Commerce
Labor
HHS
HUD
Transportation
Energy
Education
VA
Homeland Security

Plus Ivanka and Jared, just because they’re family.

102
KGxvi  Mar 29, 2017 • 3:56:31pm

re: #98 Targetpractice

Two words: Chelsea Clinton.

Chelsea was a child when Bill Clinton took the oath of office. You want an example of what the grown children of a US president should do, look at the Reagans and the Bushes from 1981 through 1993. Ivanka’s role is pretty much unheard of in modern American politics

103
Ace Rothstein  Mar 29, 2017 • 3:56:37pm

re: #100 Jack Burton

When I got the DVD of it, I think I watched it once or twice a week for a few years.

I saw it the first day it came out in 1990. It was an 11:35 AM matinee, it cost five bucks, and to this day it still holds me in the palm of its hand.

104
Timothy Watson  Mar 29, 2017 • 3:57:42pm

re: #97 bratwurst

HOT TAKE INCOMING!

[Embedded content]

It’s from The Federalist.

But of course it is.

105
Skip Intro  Mar 29, 2017 • 3:57:49pm

re: #97 bratwurst

HOT TAKE INCOMING!

[Embedded content]

It’s from The Federalist.

What is it she’s done again? I forgot.

Oh yeah, she was born rich, raised rich and married the billionaire son of a convicted felon. That’s it.

106
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 29, 2017 • 3:59:38pm

re: #102 KGxvi

Chelsea was a child when Bill Clinton took the oath of office. You want an example of what the grown children of a US president should do, look at the Reagans and the Bushes from 1981 through 1993. Ivanka’s role is pretty much unheard of in modern American politics

The wingnuts are screaming about Chelsea Clinton right now.
Not the least because of her new children’s book.

107
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 29, 2017 • 3:59:57pm

re: #105 Skip Intro

What is it she’s done again? I forgot.

Oh yeah, she was born rich, raised rich and married the billionaire son of a convicted felon. That’s it.

You forget lending her name - which only has value because of her rich Daddy - to a shitty, foreign-made apparel and shoe line.

When Chelsea Clinton starts selling shitty dresses, let me know.

108
Skip Intro  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:00:55pm

Florida, of course.

Rock star’s wife charged with threatening rowing team with a rifle

bradenton.com

109
TedStriker  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:01:43pm

re: #99 Ace Rothstein

“That’s what the FBI could never understand. That what Paulie and the organization does is offer protection for people who can’t go to the cops. That’s it. That’s all. They’re like the police department for wiseguys.”

A movie I will never, ever get sick of.

Says the Lizard named for the protagonist of GoodFellas’ sequel-in-all-but-name…

110
KGxvi  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:02:39pm

re: #106 Backwoods_Sleuth

The wingnuts are screaming about Chelsea Clinton right now.
Not the least because of her new children’s book.

They’re screaming about her because she had the audacity to be born a Clinton. My point was mostly that the grown children of American presidents don’t typically have substantial roles in the administration. I doubt that had Hillary Clinton won, that Chelsea Clinton (or her husband) would have an office in the West Wing.

111
Ace Rothstein  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:02:54pm

re: #109 TedStriker

112
Jack Burton  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:04:25pm

re: #109 TedStriker

Says the Lizard named for the protagonist of GoodFellas’ sequel-in-all-but-name…

[Embedded content]

I like Casino, it’s in my Top 20 but it’s just not Goodfellas level no matter what anyone says.

113
Ace Rothstein  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:05:50pm

re: #112 Jack Burton

I like Casino, it’s in my Top 20 but it’s just not Goodfellas level no matter what anyone says.

Both films have just KILLER soundtracks.

114
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:05:58pm

re: #110 KGxvi

They’re screaming about her because she had the audacity to be born a Clinton. My point was mostly that the grown children of American presidents don’t typically have substantial roles in the administration. I doubt that had Hillary Clinton won, that Chelsea Clinton (or her husband) would have an office in the West Wing.

I realize that.
The fact remains that those losing their minds over Chelsea don’t have any problem with Ivanka and Jared.

These are the same people who were/would be screaming over Bobby Kennedy being named AG.

115
Targetpractice  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:07:25pm

According to wingnuts, the key to being a successful woman is not to rise from humble beginnings, seeking out an education and then a career in politics helping the less fortunate. That just makes you a mean, bitter old woman who screeches rather than having warmth and empathy.

No, the key to success is being born rich or marrying a rich guy, then using your inherited wealth to sell a line of foreign-made junk at outrageous prices, before taking a White House job because your daddy decided the law doesn’t apply to him or his offspring.

116
Skip Intro  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:07:49pm

re: #96 Backwoods_Sleuth

I have to sign up for Medicare.

I. Am. Officially. Old.

You just won life’s lottery. Congrats.

117
wrenchwench  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:08:25pm

re: #96 Backwoods_Sleuth

I have to sign up for Medicare.

I. Am. Officially. Old.

I’m still unofficial. Yet, old.

No return of the Chatty Cyclist, but I had a good phone call. A guy from way in the boonies needs to cross a stream 7 times to get to the road, and wants to learn how to overhaul certain parts so he doesn’t have to keep replacing them. We think we can pick a day in May that will work for both of us so he can come in and get a private tutorial here in the big city. He’ll call again nearer that time to arrange details. We have a price set.

I had a phone call a few years ago from a sales guy who wanted to make my location ‘the most prominent in your metroplex’. I laughed and asked him where he was calling from (it was a different state). Referring to this area as a ‘metroplex’ is so funny I now say it regularly.

118
FormerDirtDart  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:09:26pm
119
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:10:03pm

re: #116 Skip Intro

You just won life’s lottery. Congrats.

Well, only if I make it through June…

120
KGxvi  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:10:27pm

re: #114 Backwoods_Sleuth

I realize that.
The fact remains that those losing their minds over Chelsea don’t have any problem with Ivanka and Jared.

These are the same people who were/would be screaming over Bobby Kennedy being named AG.

Honestly, I’m not sure how I’d feel about a Bobby Kennedy situation. Qualified or not, there’s something that feels not quite right about a president appointing a family member to a high level job like that.

121
TedStriker  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:11:20pm

re: #111 Ace Rothstein

[Embedded content]

Well, I was using the HH pic to punctuate…

122
William Lewis  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:12:07pm

re: #96 Backwoods_Sleuth

I have to sign up for Medicare.

I. Am. Officially. Old.

Congratulations!

123
TedStriker  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:12:38pm

re: #116 Skip Intro

You just won life’s lottery. Congrats.

Another day above ground.

124
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:13:06pm

re: #118 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

….and then the rich guy leans over to the Trump voter and says, “That Mexican wants your cookie!”

125
Targetpractice  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:13:08pm

re: #118 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

But remember, folks, the way to get jobs rolling again is to give the 1% even more wealth because it’ll “trickle down.”

126
Skip Intro  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:15:03pm

re: #123 TedStriker

Another day above ground.

I’m not so sure that’s a plus any more.

127
The Ghost of Senator Incitatus  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:15:11pm

re: #114 Backwoods_Sleuth

Hypocrisy will never, ever stick.

The only rule is “the rules are different.”

128
Skip Intro  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:15:54pm

re: #125 Targetpractice

But remember, folks, the way to get jobs rolling again is to give the 1% even more wealth because it’ll “trickle down.”

As illustrated by the graph.

129
EPR-radar  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:17:02pm

re: #118 FormerDirtDart

This is what successful class warfare by the rich looks like.

130
FormerDirtDart  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:20:12pm
131
Jack Burton  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:21:25pm

re: #125 Targetpractice

But remember, folks, the way to get jobs rolling again is to give the 1% even more wealth because it’ll “trickle down.”

I really really want to go back in time and give myself a Red Formanesque foot in the ass for ever believing in that garbage.

132
Timothy Watson  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:23:19pm

re: #131 Jack Burton

I really really want to go back in time and give myself a Red Formanesque foot in the ass for ever believing in that garbage.

Deliver one to me while you’re at it.

133
Skip Intro  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:23:53pm

The idiots control everything now.

Lamar Smith claims climate scientists not following scientific method

Head of House Science Committee makes accusations he fails to back up.

Not enough Jesus is the problem.

arstechnica.com

134
goddamnedfrank  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:23:56pm

re: #97 bratwurst

HOT TAKE INCOMING!

[Embedded content]

It’s from The Federalist.

135
Romantic Heretic  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:25:01pm

re: #96 Backwoods_Sleuth

Happens to the best of us.

136
lawhawk  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:26:05pm

re: #134 goddamnedfrank

That’s so much dumbassery in 140 characters by those nitwits… that it rises to dumbfuckery.

137
wrenchwench  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:26:49pm

Yay! Chatty Cyclist came back. Hadn’t gone to the ATM, went to the hotel where he dug deep in his bags to the stash of cash, and changed his clothes while he was at it.

Now I gotta go. Later, lizards, young and old.

138
Jack Burton  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:28:54pm

re: #134 goddamnedfrank

It does say something though that this is where they have to go to find something to defend and complain about amongst this shit storm.

139
majii  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:28:59pm

re: #136 lawhawk

“That’s so much dumbassery in 140 characters by those nitwits… that it rises to dumbfuckery.”

Lying constantly, hypocrisy, and establishing and accepting double standards are only things GOPers are permitted to engage in without shame.

140
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:29:46pm

Read the whole thread. He raises interesting points about why “We’re gonna bring back COAL!!!” resonates in Appalachia.

Take home is that because coal put a LOT of people to work, for a lot of years, paying good wages with no education, it created the expectation that this was how things were SUPPOSED TO BE. And as a result, there’s the expectation that it can be that way again.

It can’t.

Somewhat unspoken is the point that the plentiful, well paying mining jobs for the uneducated devalued education among a population prone to mistrust education in the first place, so nobody put money into it.

141
Targetpractice  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:31:02pm
142
plansbandc  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:31:43pm

re: #130 FormerDirtDart

Reminds me of the K911 thread on reddit.

143
majii  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:32:28pm

re: #138 Jack Burton

“It does say something though that this is where they have to go to find something to defend and complain about amongst this shit storm.”

They have to find distractions to b*tch about because the fact that the world knows they elected a totally incompetent as POTUS might finally be penetrating the RW bubble in which they reside. They appear to be doing everything they can to ignore Trump’s abysmal job approval rating and his many fkups.

144
goddamnedfrank  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:35:39pm
145
ObserverArt  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:36:05pm

re: #41 Dr. Matt

And Donald Trump wants to reduce the Coast Guard’s’ budget

[Embedded content]

Hey, they keep finding the cocaine his buddies make money distributing. Bad for business!

We always need to remember, Trump has many questionable business partnerships, he loves to make money, some of it by sketchy means and he seems to be using the office to free up ways to do all of it.

146
gocart mozart  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:37:17pm
147
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:37:28pm

re: #140 Blind Frog Belly White

an uneducated man can make $80k/yr, retire young.

He can “retire” young because his health is so bad he can barely breathe getting from one room to another.

And that alleged $80,000/year vanishes the day he “retires”.

Real life? The range for a laborer at a large underground mine is $13.99 to $30.25.

148
ObserverArt  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:38:21pm

re: #47 Decatur Deb

Perhaps it’s his voters who are unable to function in a society.

True. But what happens when in reality they make up 30% of your society.

We have trouble, right here in River City…so let’s form a band, I’ve got Trump trombones for sale.

149
goddamnedfrank  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:38:36pm

re: #144 goddamnedfrank

150
Targetpractice  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:38:43pm

re: #144 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

In several states, Trump’s victory margin was equal to or smaller than the number of Stein voters. So yes, if they’d all had a bit maturity, we would not be dealing with a Vulgar Talking Yam in the White House.

151
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:39:05pm

not laughing.

152
majii  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:39:24pm

re: #140 Blind Frog Belly White

“Somewhat unspoken is the point that the plentiful, well paying mining jobs for the uneducated devalued education among a population prone to mistrust education in the first place, so nobody put money into it.”

I think the somewhat inherent anti-government mindset of some in some coal mining regions, along with a penchant for isolationism [I can pull myself up by my bootstraps, don’t need any help,] and a “fear” of outsiders, along with other factors, might have played role in their resistance to attempts at introducing new ideas and jobs in these regions which would act as an accompaniment to thinking education isn’t as important as it should be.

153
gocart mozart  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:39:38pm
154
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:40:14pm

re: #134 goddamnedfrank

Wait - so he’s saying if she were a Democrat who was the child of a stupid, narcissistic bully who managed to bluff his way into the White House with her help, and then with no Government experience got a position as Special Assistant to that same stupid, narcissistic bully President, we’d all love her?

Uh - why?

155
Skip Intro  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:41:11pm

re: #154 Blind Frog Belly White

Because the Magical Balance Fairy says so, that’s why.

156
goddamnedfrank  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:41:25pm

re: #154 Blind Frog Belly White

[Embedded content]

Wait - so he’s saying if she were a Democrat who was the child of a stupid, narcissistic bully who managed to bluff his way into the White House with her help, and then with no Government experience got a position as Special Assistant to that same stupid, narcissistic bully President, we’d all love her?

Uh - why?

Because he’s a ****.

157
calochortus  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:43:07pm

re: #147 Backwoods_Sleuth

He can “retire” young because his health is so bad he can barely breathe getting from one room to another.

And that alleged $80,000/year vanishes the day he “retires”.

Real life? The range for a laborer at a large underground mine is $13.99 to $30.25.

I have read that a few decades ago, they could retire on disability which was enough to live on, having paid for a house and sent their kids to college or whatever before black lung got them. This doesn’t happen any more for a variety of reasons.

158
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:43:50pm

re: #153 gocart mozart

[Embedded content]

and then the murders began…

159
EPR-radar  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:44:37pm

re: #154 Blind Frog Belly White

[Embedded content]

Wait - so he’s saying if she were a Democrat who was the child of a stupid, narcissistic bully who managed to bluff his way into the White House with her help, and then with no Government experience got a position as Special Assistant to that same stupid, narcissistic bully President, we’d all love her?

Uh - why?

Republicans are such mindless party-above-country hacks that they are literally incapable of conceiving that Democrats often don’t put party above country. Even the never-Trumpers are in general agreement that nothing Trump has done is worse than what they ‘think’ Obama did.

160
William Lewis  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:47:02pm
161
Skip Intro  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:48:39pm

re: #158 Backwoods_Sleuth

I always liked this one.

162
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:49:27pm

re: #157 calochortus

I have read that a few decades ago, they could retire on disability which was enough to live on, having paid for a house and sent their kids to college or whatever before black lung got them. This doesn’t happen any more for a variety of reasons.

The ones making that $80,000+ a year aren’t “uneducated”. They are the mine managers, foremen, heavy equipment operators, etc.

In the “old days” disability retirement was enough to live on because it was Appalachia and the cost of living is so much lower.

When I moved back to Kentucky 20+ years ago, one of my neighbors told me that his greatest hope was to qualify for disability.

Less than 10 years later, he was dead at age 47. He never qualified for disability.

163
gocart mozart  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:51:43pm
164
thedopefishlives  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:53:10pm

Evening Lizardim.

165
Decatur Deb  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:53:28pm

re: #150 Targetpractice

In several states, Trump’s victory margin was equal to or smaller than the number of Stein voters. So yes, if they’d all had a bit maturity, we would not be dealing with a Vulgar Talking Yam in the White House.

To be fair to the little naifs, the margin was so close that almost any identifiable negative tossed the electoral college. We really had to work at it to blow this one.

166
gocart mozart  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:53:47pm
167
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:54:13pm

re: #147 Backwoods_Sleuth

He can “retire” young because his health is so bad he can barely breathe getting from one room to another.

And that alleged $80,000/year vanishes the day he “retires”.

Real life? The range for a laborer at a large underground mine is $13.99 to $30.25.

He’s speaking historically. I’m willing to bet wages have not kept pace with inflation. But, you know, $30/hr = $60K/year not counting overtime.
Here’s something from 2010:

The average starting salary for a coal mine worker is $60,000.

“You can come right out of high school and make $70,000 a year,”

And that was in 2010, after years of falling employment in the mines, and probably years of union busting and downward wage pressures.

168
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:56:30pm
169
Decatur Deb  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:57:23pm

re: #166 gocart mozart

[Embedded content]

Boris (Epshtyn) has already been fired. Natasha has just changed her hair color.

170
Belafon  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:58:28pm

re: #168 Backwoods_Sleuth

So now we can sue the government for nepotism.

171
AaronFromToronto  Mar 29, 2017 • 4:58:53pm

I feel like Trump has set the public dialogue on mental health back ten or twenty years by being basically a walking caricature of people’s basest fears about crazy people.

172
SteveMcG RN  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:00:44pm

re: #151 Backwoods_Sleuth

I noticed he spoke “at” women and not to or with them.

173
Decatur Deb  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:02:14pm

re: #171 AaronFromToronto

I feel like Trump has set the public dialogue on mental health back ten or twenty years by being basically a walking caricature of people’s basest fears about crazy people.

Don’t know if he’s crazy. I’m certain he’s a prick. Think of how much he has embarrassed them.

174
teleskiguy  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:02:24pm

re: #57 Jack Burton

Tommy Devito? Did he bring his fuckin’ shine box?

175
freetoken  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:04:18pm

Trumpers support Trump because he is the angst of their id made (orange, aging) flesh.

Such things are not going away simply because we wished they were.

Disheartening as it may be (and as I get older I realize how little I will be able to change these things in the big picture), our society will change when these people die off.

176
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:05:01pm
177
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:05:02pm

re: #147 Backwoods_Sleuth

Several places I’ve looked say that the average work week for miners is 60 hours.

So, that’s 40 x $23 = $920, and 20 x $34 = 680 so $1600/week. Times 50 weeks = $80,000.

178
freetoken  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:06:53pm

re: #177 Blind Frog Belly White

Getting paid well in return for a shortened life span.

Seems like there should be a better way.

179
Decatur Deb  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:07:22pm

re: #175 freetoken

Trumpers support Trump because he is the angst of their id made (orange, aging) flesh.

Such things are not going away simply because we wished they were.

Disheartening as it may be (and as I get older I realize how little I will be able to change these things in the big picture), our society will change when these people die off.

Optimist.

180
SteveMcG RN  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:08:48pm

re: #179 Decatur Deb

“These people” have been dying off for fifty years. They keep getting replaced.

181
freetoken  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:09:09pm

re: #179 Decatur Deb

Optimist.

Well, yes I am.

Because I believe the next generation will not carry all the baggage of the previous generation.

However, each generation will have its own problems and its own ugliness.

182
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:10:14pm

re: #177 Blind Frog Belly White

Several places I’ve looked say that the average work week for miners is 60 hours.

So, that’s 40 x $23 = $920, and 20 x $34 = 680 so $1600/week. Times 50 weeks = $80,000.

payscale.com

183
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:12:08pm

I am optimistic and cynical at the same time. There’s a lot to like about the younger generation but we also have a ways to go.

184
Decatur Deb  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:12:30pm

re: #180 SteveMcG RN

re: #181 freetoken

dailymail.co.uk

185
ObserverArt  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:12:57pm

re: #64 KGxvi

I’m friends with one of my old senseis on FB. He’s kind of a wingnut, today he posted something about Tia Thompson a trans woman volleyball player in Hawaii who is planning on trying out for the Olympic team in 2020. Of course, many of the comments on the post were of the wingnutty “It’s a man” “that’s not fair having men play against women” etc etc etc variety. I’ve tried, rather rationally, I think, to explain the process and the effects of hormone replacement therapy. But again, responses are “nope, still a man.”

I can understand someone not understanding what transgender people go through. I can understand someone not understanding the science behind it. But I can’t understand, for the life of me, how anyone could be so intellectually incurious that they won’t take the time to do even the most basic reading on a subject (I mean to the point of the “nope still a man” comment was in response to, “do a google search for before and after photos).

I’m behind in the thread so this may have been mentioned. Are you familiar with Renee Richards, the transgender pro tennis player from back in the 70s?

She had some success on the pro circuit, but not dominate from what I can remember. Look her up on the ‘net, she might be a good source for your debate.

186
teleskiguy  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:17:36pm
187
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:17:55pm

re: #178 freetoken

Getting paid well in return for a shortened life span.

Seems like there should be a better way.

Neither the Tweeter nor I are saying that it was a good or a safe job. That’s not the point.

What he’s saying is that it was well-paid work that you could get with no education beyond High School, and because this went on for generations, it created the expectation that somebody with a High School education should be able to get a job that paid well above average, and that it would be steady work that would last a (shortened) lifetime.

This led the people in Coal Country to devalue education as a means of getting ahead, so they didn’t invest in it. And now, with coal declining, they have no fallback, and are searching for ‘The Next Coal’, when there IS NO ‘Next Coal’.

These jobs went away, so people look for somebody to blame. And if there’s somebody to blame, all you have to do is undo what they did, and like magic it will all come back. So, when Clinton says, “These jobs aren’t coming back, but we’ll train you for jobs that WILL exist”, and Trump says, “We’ll bring those jobs back!”, guess who they vote for?

188
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:19:47pm

re: #182 Backwoods_Sleuth

Do you have an actual point? Because it seems to me you may have read down the thread till you hit ‘$80,000’ and stopped, missing the entire point of the thread.

189
The Vicious Babushka  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:20:09pm

re: #144 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

MATH FACT: Jill Stein received more votes in MI, PA & WI than the margin which tipped those states to Trump.

190
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:20:14pm

re: #186 teleskiguy

[Embedded content]

Man I wish there was audio of that. He wasn’t wrong.

191
EPR-radar  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:20:34pm

re: #171 AaronFromToronto

I feel like Trump has set the public dialogue on mental health back ten or twenty years by being basically a walking caricature of people’s basest fears about crazy people.

I see no reason to believe Trump is mentally ill in any real clinical sense.

He is evil. He is stupid. He is a raging asshole. He is a bigot. He is a male chauvinist pig.

None of this is mental illness.

192
teleskiguy  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:22:01pm

Speaking of coal country.

193
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:22:12pm

re: #182 Backwoods_Sleuth

payscale.com

Oh, okay. I said $23 an hour, but your source says $24 an hour. That makes it $84,000. I guess you’re right. They DIDN’T make $80,000. They made $84,000.

194
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:22:22pm

re: #189 The Vicious Babushka

MATH FACT: Jill Stein received more votes in MI, PA & WI than the margin which tipped those states to Trump.

They’re like the Nader assholes in 2000. They refuse to see how their ideological purity got us Trump. IMO Clinton would have been able to make more long lasting progressive change than Sanders would have. Sanders would have been a weak President since he had nowhere near the understanding of legislative work that Clinton does and he would have been forced to make a lot of EOs that could easily be overturned by teh Congress or judges.

195
freetoken  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:22:38pm

re: #187 Blind Frog Belly White

Similar stories can be told all over Trump-land.

In my hometown there used to be meat-packing plants. They are all gone now…

But it used to be a guy with just a basic education could get a job there, get a wage good enough to have a life.

Now all that location has is Walmart jobs.

So yes, the despair from the down-grading of employment is real.

This is after all what the collective concern is over the top 1% collecting all the wealth and the bottom half of the country continually losing buying power.

196
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:22:52pm

re: #192 teleskiguy

Speaking of coal country.

[Embedded content]

That’s a pleasant surprise. WV still has a long ways to go though.

197
SteveMcG RN  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:23:32pm

When Michelle Wie wanted to play on the men’s tour, golf fans went apeshit. They expected her to win on the LPGA Tour first before she could be “worthy” of playing with the men. These people never could explain why she had to win first but rookie male players didn’t.

198
Decatur Deb  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:25:01pm

re: #192 teleskiguy

Speaking of coal country.

[Embedded content]

Visions of souped-up Hudsons packed with product, crossing the Big Sandy bridges with their headlights out.

199
EPR-radar  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:26:45pm

re: #195 freetoken

IMO the big picture here is that globalization + automation is rapidly getting us to the point where we have far more people than jobs in the US.

At that point, all of the old assumptions about how society has to be ordered (i.e., work to live) fail. The least radical proposal that has a chance of addressing this, IMO, is a guaranteed living wage. But that is an exceedingly difficult thing to get enacted in a plutocracy like the US.

The plutocrats’ preferred plan (implicitly from their actions in running the GOP) is for the useless mouths to die.

200
teleskiguy  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:27:09pm

re: #198 Decatur Deb

Visions of souped-up Hudsons packed with product, crossing the Big Sandy bridges with their headlights out.

201
goddamnedfrank  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:28:03pm
202
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:28:49pm

re: #199 EPR-radar

IMO the big picture here is that globalization + automation is rapidly getting us to the point where we have far more people than jobs in the US.

At that point, all of the old assumptions about how society has to be ordered (i.e., work to live) fail. The least radical proposal that has a chance of addressing this, IMO, is a guaranteed living wage. But that is an exceedingly difficult thing to get enacted in a plutocracy like the US.

The plutocrats’ preferred plan (implicitly from their actions in running the GOP) is for the useless mouths to die.

People are so threatened by the living wage idea. But you’re right, we have to stop viewing this in a 1950’s economic prism where a person could be expected to provide for their family with a 9-5 job.

203
jaunte  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:29:35pm

Just like the Trumps want to do to us unless we stop them.

204
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:30:01pm

re: #201 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

I wouldn’t complain if Chelsea ran for office. Honestly, I’m sick of the constant whining by the far left about the Clintons. It’s their party too and they’re entitled to their opinions and if enough people want to vote for Chelsea to nominate her for an office, more power to them.

205
EPR-radar  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:30:05pm

re: #202 HappyWarrior

People are so threatened by the living wage idea. But you’re right, we have to stop viewing this in a 1950’s economic prism where a person could be expected to provide for their family with a 9-5 job.

Living wage or a Mad Max Hellscape. Pick one.

206
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:33:16pm

re: #205 EPR-radar

Living wage or a Mad Max Hellscape. Pick one.

Mad Max Hellscape has no regulations though. //

207
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:34:07pm

re: #195 freetoken

Similar stories can be told all over Trump-land.

In my hometown there used to be meat-packing plants. They are all gone now…

But it used to be a guy with just a basic education could get a job there, get a wage good enough to have a life.

Now all that location has is Walmart jobs.

So yes, the despair from the down-grading of employment is real.

This is after all what the collective concern is over the top 1% collecting all the wealth and the bottom half of the country continually losing buying power.

True, although the thing about mining is that it’s really pretty much limited to where the coal is, whereas manufacturing is more ‘portable’. So folks in the coalmining areas end up jobless in the middle of nowhere, rather than jobless in a metro area.

One thing struck me from the thread:

Local unemployment can also be thought of as local overpopulation. That is, there are more people living there than there are jobs to support them. But if you believe that the size of your town is The Size God Intended, then you need something to provide jobs enough for those people.

And there’s a lot of racism in this, too. When manufacturing left the cities, leaving urban blacks stranded with no jobs in the cities, the response was “Look at those lazy black people! The depend on welfare, they use drugs, and can’t keep their families together!” Now that the SAME THING is happening to an area that’s largely rural and overwhelmingly white, the response is, “Look at those poor people, who had their way of life STOLEN!!!”

208
jaunte  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:34:16pm

re: #206 HappyWarrior

Mad Max Hellscape has no regulations though. //

And everyone is self-employed.

209
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:34:46pm

I think we just need to stop living in the past. Hey, it’s great if you or your parents were able to make it through school and a job but acknowledge that tuition was cheaper in those days and that wages were higher adjusted for inflation too. The problem really is while our productivity is high, wages have stagnated and that’s something I definitely blame on right wing attitudes on economics.

210
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:35:20pm

re: #208 jaunte

And everyone is self-employed.

Get your homemade baseball bats here. Get em while they’re cheap!

211
TedStriker  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:36:00pm

The Republican game plan to remake American society (with them at the top of the heap):

“Whatsoever therefore is consequent to a time of Warre, where every man is Enemy to every man; the same is consequent to the time, wherein men live without other security, than what their own strength, and their own invention shall furnish them withall. In such condition, there is no place for Industry; because the fruit thereof is uncertain; and consequently no Culture of the Earth; no Navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by Sea; no commodious Building; no Instruments of moving, and removing such things as require much force; no Knowledge of the face of the Earth; no account of Time; no Arts; no Letters; no Society; and which is worst of all, continuall feare, and danger of violent death; And the life of man, solitary, poore, nasty, brutish, and short.”

en.wikipedia.org

212
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:36:21pm

re: #207 Blind Frog Belly White

True, although the thing about mining is that it’s really pretty much limited to where the coal is, whereas manufacturing is more ‘portable’. So folks in the coalmining areas end up jobless in the middle of nowhere, rather than jobless in a metro area.

One thing struck me from the thread:

[Embedded content]

Local unemployment can also be thought of as local overpopulation. That is, there are more people living there than there are jobs to support them. But if you believe that the size of your town is The Size God Intended, then you need something to provide jobs enough for those people.

And there’s a lot of racism in this, too. When manufacturing left the cities, leaving urban blacks stranded with no jobs in the cities, the response was “Look at those lazy black people! The depend on welfare, they use drugs, and can’t keep their families together!” Now that the SAME THING is happening to an area that’s largely rural and overwhelmingly white, the response is, “Look at those poor people, who had their way of life STOLEN!!!”

So fucking true.

213
jaunte  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:37:10pm

re: #207 Blind Frog Belly White

It’s striking that a lot of the people in Appalachia seem to have forgotten that their ancestors probably didn’t want to come there from Europe, they were forced by economic pressure to change location.

214
ObserverArt  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:37:29pm

re: #144 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

Damn Frank…you seem to have hit a vane of far-leftest/libertarian/contrarian Twitter Political Editorialists. It’s the motherlode!!!

How do you do it?

215
freetoken  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:37:43pm

re: #207 Blind Frog Belly White

Local unemployment can also be thought of as local overpopulation.

But… that is only true when the local population imports the stuff they need for life.

People == jobs.
Jobs == people.

If there are not enough jobs for a certain locale, that means the people there are hiring, indirectly, other people far far away to provide them goods and services.

This is the source of the agitation behind protectionism. While protectionism is mostly mindless, underneath all the ugliness is a simple truth: if you hire someone far away to make something for you, then you’ve not employed someone nearby to make it for you.

216
Shiplord Kirel  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:38:03pm

re: #206 HappyWarrior

Mad Max Hellscape has no regulations though. //

Oh, Milton Friedman and the Chicago school.

217
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:38:55pm

re: #199 EPR-radar

IMO the big picture here is that globalization + automation is rapidly getting us to the point where we have far more people than jobs in the US.

At that point, all of the old assumptions about how society has to be ordered (i.e., work to live) fail. The least radical proposal that has a chance of addressing this, IMO, is a guaranteed living wage. But that is an exceedingly difficult thing to get enacted in a plutocracy like the US.

The plutocrats’ preferred plan (implicitly from their actions in running the GOP) is for the useless mouths to die.

Bingo.

The old Utopian assumption was that we’d just keep shortening the work week, and expanding leisure hours, while keeping wages growing. Instead, wages stayed the same or declined as the workweek actually expanded a bit, and fewer jobs were created.

218
EPR-radar  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:39:37pm

re: #209 HappyWarrior

I think we just need to stop living in the past. Hey, it’s great if you or your parents were able to make it through school and a job but acknowledge that tuition was cheaper in those days and that wages were higher adjusted for inflation too. The problem really is while our productivity is high, wages have stagnated and that’s something I definitely blame on right wing attitudes on economics.

As I recall, the great disconnect between productivity and wages started around 1980 and wages have been flat since then while productivity has continued to increase.

The level of wealth and income redistribution that this justifies in my mind is astronomical, even though I know full well that anything that would even come close to making up for this would be instantly and successfully branded as ‘communism’.

219
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:40:00pm

re: #208 jaunte

And everyone is self-employed.

The Libertarian Utopia!

220
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:40:32pm

What I think honestly makes the right wing way of approaching the economy work is as we get further and further away from people who had to fight for things like the 8 hour work day, 40 hour work week, benefits etc, we forget. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard people my age flat out take unions for granted.

221
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:40:58pm

re: #218 EPR-radar

As I recall, the great disconnect between productivity and wages started around 1980 and wages have been flat since then while productivity has continued to increase.

The level of wealth and income redistribution that this justifies in my mind is astronomical, even though I know full well that anything that would even come close to making up for this would be instantly and successfully branded as ‘communism’.

Yes, the genesis really begins in the Reagan years which I don’t think is a coincidence.

222
freetoken  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:41:06pm

The bottom line is we’re stuck with a lot of 18th century thinking and institutions in a 21st century world that needs to work a different way.

223
ObserverArt  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:41:09pm

re: #151 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

not laughing.

He read it.

Right off the teleprompter.

Someone should have said they were not that familiar with Susan B., would he like to tell them about her?

That would have been interesting.

224
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:41:41pm

re: #222 freetoken

The bottom line is we’re stuck with a lot of 18th century thinking and institutions in a 21st century world that needs to work a different way.

Right on.

225
FormerDirtDart  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:43:29pm

A reminder why passenger aircraft use two pilots
Captain declares n emergency two miles out due to “medical issue”
Paramedics meet aircraft at gate, perform CPR for 35-40 minutes

226
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:45:03pm

WTF did I do to deserve a “Ben Shapiro DESTROYS” video recommendation on my YouTube. Just a pet peeve, stop saying “DESTROYS’, it’s discussion of issues not the WW fucking E. Stop making the discussion of ideas out to be like staged fighting.

227
gocart mozart  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:45:11pm
228
freetoken  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:45:16pm

The ROVs are on the ship parked in port:

Camera 1: Exploring Remote Pacific MPAs

But they uploaded some neat video clips from the last month:

Venus Flytrap Anemone: 2017 American Samoa

Cosmic Jellyfish: 2017 American Samoa

229
goddamnedfrank  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:45:32pm

I know Merryman has a lot of issues but seriously just come on, does anybody really thing SCOTUS is just going to accept warrantless detention of anybody that the government simply asserts is here illegally?

230
jaunte  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:45:36pm

re: #225 FormerDirtDart

A reminder why passenger aircraft use two pilots

I imagine there’s another onerous regulation about that in danger of being eliminated.

231
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:45:51pm

re: #227 gocart mozart

[Embedded content]

Sucks to be them.

232
EPR-radar  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:46:25pm

re: #221 HappyWarrior

Yes, the genesis really begins in the Reagan years which I don’t think is a coincidence.

No coincidence at all. The other thing I think is no coincidence is that feral capitalism seems to have gotten markedly worse since the fall of the Soviet Union.

It would appear that the plutocrats are no longer concerned about making all of that old Communist propaganda about capitalism true.

233
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:47:05pm

re: #232 EPR-radar

No coincidence at all. The other thing I think is no coincidence is that feral capitalism seems to have gotten markedly worse since the fall of the Soviet Union.

It would appear that the plutocrats are no longer concerned about making all of that old Communist propaganda about capitalism true.

You know, I never thought about that but that’s actually a really good point.

235
EPR-radar  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:49:14pm

re: #229 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

I know Merryman has a lot of issues but seriously just come on, does anybody really thing SCOTUS is just going to accept warrantless detention of anybody that the government simply asserts is here illegally?

The answer to this question depends mainly on how many right wing nut jobs we have on SCOTUS at the time such a case is considered. The rot goes very deep, and Thomas and Alito of the sitting justices would be a ‘yes’ on such warrantless detention IMO.

236
ObserverArt  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:51:00pm

re: #152 majii

“Somewhat unspoken is the point that the plentiful, well paying mining jobs for the uneducated devalued education among a population prone to mistrust education in the first place, so nobody put money into it.”

I think the somewhat inherent anti-government mindset of some in some coal mining regions, along with a penchant for isolationism [I can pull myself up by my bootstraps, don’t need any help,] and a “fear” of outsiders, along with other factors, might have played role in their resistance to attempts at introducing new ideas and jobs in these regions which would act as an accompaniment to thinking education isn’t as important as it should be.

If Ohio is any trend, those coal mine areas of are dying off with the elder people that had that mindset.

From what I can see, those communities are shrinking as their children go off to school and to find jobs and realize reality and they are moving to the bigger cities like here in Columbus.

It’s only 100 miles at most from almost all of Ohio’s coal country (what is even left…it started to die back in the 80s) and it is continuing to grow and grow. I think a good percentage are from those areas of Ohio, and even from West Virginia and Kentucky.

I drive through the hills of Ohio to check it out and enjoy the twisty roads with my VW. Those old Appalachian type towns are abandoned and falling down. So are the homes around there too.

In 50 years, not many are even going to be living in coal country unless they are retired and like the area for fishing and hunting, etc.

Another thing that might come from it all, those new residents to the big city might not cling to some of the old ways…meaning some will become more liberal in their thinking and hopefully in their politics.

237
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:51:02pm

re: #222 freetoken

The bottom line is we’re stuck with a lot of 18th century thinking and institutions in a 21st century world that needs to work a different way.

There’s a story I’ve probably told here before, about a Conservative friend who challenged me to a debate on an internet forum with the topic

“Resolved: That an employer owes his employees no more compensation than is necessary to keep them from going elsewhere.”

My first response was, “Certainly, as long as you agree that the employee owes his employer no more work than is necessary to keep from being fired.”

He was OUTRAGED!!!! You should do your best, no matter what! This was What’s Wrong With This Country, that workers slacked off, etc.

To him, the employer’s responsibility is a business equation, but the worker’s responsibility was a moral imperative. This thinking is common everywhere, but mostly on the Right, and at its heart is the belief that work itself is a moral imperative. Now, working less than 40 hours is viewed as somehow shameful, and we pay based on that. At the same time, technology moves forward, making more goods with fewer workers. We end up with more people than work.

238
Shiplord Kirel  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:52:02pm

Oh shit!

Texas Chapter of Anti-LGBT Hate Group Mass Resistance Launches, Helmed by Robert Oscar López

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

239
goddamnedfrank  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:52:05pm

re: #204 HappyWarrior

I wouldn’t complain if Chelsea ran for office. Honestly, I’m sick of the constant whining by the far left about the Clintons. It’s their party too and they’re entitled to their opinions and if enough people want to vote for Chelsea to nominate her for an office, more power to them.

I wouldn’t complain either but it’s smart of her to recognize how (unfairly) unwelcoming the political climate is. Pragmatism, even in the fact of undeserved bullshit, is a trait I will always admire. There’s a time to buck the system and, in this case, a time to realize she is perceived as the system. Yet, in spite of the benefits she would derive through her family connections running for office is still vastly different from having your Daddy just give you one.

240
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:52:49pm

re: #188 Blind Frog Belly White

Do you have an actual point? Because it seems to me you may have read down the thread till you hit ‘$80,000’ and stopped, missing the entire point of the thread.

did not miss a thing.
I tried to add some personal experience, which is that $80,000/year is not the norm, at least not in eastern Kentucky.

241
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:53:30pm

re: #239 goddamnedfrank

I wouldn’t complain either but it’s smart of her to recognize how (unfairly) unwelcoming the political climate is. Pragmatism, even in the fact of undeserved bullshit, is a trait I will always admire. There’s a time to buck the system and, in this case, a time to realize she is perceived as the system. Yet, in spite of the benefits she would derive through her family connections running for office is still vastly different from having your Daddy just give you one.

Yes, agreed on both counts.

242
goddamnedfrank  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:54:02pm

re: #235 EPR-radar

The answer to this question depends mainly on how many right wing nut jobs we have on SCOTUS at the time such a case is considered. The rot goes very deep, and Thomas and Alito of the sitting justices would be a ‘yes’ on such warrantless detention IMO.

Even they would have to be mindful of the kind of power they’d be handing to a Democratic President. I doubt they’re that stupid.

243
freetoken  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:54:38pm

re: #237 Blind Frog Belly White

This vertical view of life:

master-slave
employer-employee
lord-tenant

… is deeply held and reified in our society.

For those of us who want to point this out, we have to be prepared for a lot of backlash.

As usual, I will be a broken record here, and the central nugget of this vertical relationship is enshrined in our religions:

God-creature

The deepest urge in the backlash is that once you start peeling away the layers of obfuscation, what we’re really saying is that the world is not what our society used to teach us.

244
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:57:11pm

I mean a good work ethic is a good thing to have but there’s something deeply wrong I think if a person has to work 80 hours to provide for their family and is still struggling. When I saw Perriello speak on Friday night, be brought up such a person and there are a lot of people like that in the economy. The biggest problem I have with the right is they oppose things like welfare but they also oppose wage floors too.

245
gocart mozart  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:57:39pm
246
Dave In Austin  Mar 29, 2017 • 5:59:36pm

re: #240 Backwoods_Sleuth

did not miss a thing.
I tried to add some personal experience, which is that $80,000/year is not the norm, at least not in eastern Kentucky.

That would probably be a formans wage. Working management.

247
EPR-radar  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:01:15pm

re: #243 freetoken

Bingo. That’s why I think a big part of Trump’s ‘success’ is based on his perceived wealth.

Groveling to the rich is so ingrained in most of society and particularly on the right that even the never-Trumpers often end up going easier on Trump than they really should.

Trump is the nearest thing to God that wingnuts are ever going to see in this life. That just soaks into every fiber of their being and turns them into submissive puddles of goo, particularly when he tells them lies they want to hear and validates their resentment and bigotry.

248
gocart mozart  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:02:18pm
249
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:02:50pm

re: #248 gocart mozart

[Embedded content]

Steve King torrented all of Prussian Blue’s albums.

250
FormerDirtDart  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:03:47pm
251
EPR-radar  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:04:07pm

re: #244 HappyWarrior

I mean a good work ethic is a good thing to have but there’s something deeply wrong I think if a person has to work 80 hours to provide for their family and is still struggling. When I saw Perriello speak on Friday night, be brought up such a person and there are a lot of people like that in the economy. The biggest problem I have with the right is they oppose things like welfare but they also oppose wage floors too.

$10 million per year is on the low end for US CEO compensation. Assuming (!) a 2000 hour work year, that works out to $5000 an hour.

There is absolutely no way to justify that kind of compensation for anyone who isn’t performing at godlike levels. Most of these folks are nowhere near that level, despite their press releases to that effect.

252
Stanley Sea  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:05:05pm

re: #228 freetoken

The ROVs are on the ship parked in port:

[Embedded content]

Love the cosmic jellyfish!

253
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:05:58pm

re: #250 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

That reminds me of Newt crying about the Catholic orphanages that had to shut down over bans on denying LGBT couples adoption. This shit just needs to stop. Stop using your religious prejudices as an excuse to be a jerk. I may not like Evangelicals and what they believe in but if I ran an orphanage or service designed to help kids, I would never deny someone simply because they were Evangelical.

254
freetoken  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:06:28pm

re: #247 EPR-radar

Well…

The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, declares the Lord of hosts.

255
Brian J.  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:06:29pm

re: #250 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

Bye, theocrats! Don’t let the door hit ya where Jebus Krap split ya.

256
Shiplord Kirel  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:06:48pm

re: #238 Shiplord Kirel

Oh shit!

Texas Chapter of Anti-LGBT Hate Group Mass Resistance Launches, Helmed by Robert Oscar López

[Embedded content]

Btw, Lopez has written a self-published book called Wackos Thugs and Perverts: Clintonian Decadence in Academia in which he blames the Clintons for debauchery and general gayness in the academic world.

257
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:06:49pm

re: #251 EPR-radar

$10 million per year is on the low end for US CEO compensation. Assuming (!) a 2000 hour work year, that works out to $5000 an hour.

There is absolutely no way to justify that kind of compensation for anyone who isn’t performing at godlike levels. Most of these folks are nowhere near that level, despite their press releases to that effect.

We have so many people in this country and no doubt some of our own friends and family who really believe someone’s self worth as an individual is directly correlated to how much they make.

258
ObserverArt  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:07:06pm

re: #165 Decatur Deb

To be fair to the little naifs, the margin was so close that almost any identifiable negative tossed the electoral college. We really had to work at it to blow this one.

I understand your point, but there were certainly other things going on in this election that were not in previous elections and they had as much to do with it as what you see as not working.

A few: Russians, fake news, the media following the TV star for ratings, and what I think was a biggie, the first woman coming just after the first Black president that was slimed and resisted and made to look bad, and she was running as a continuation of his policies, the emails, the emails, the emails and the FBI, our citizens (those you talked about upthread) being really really ignorant and evil.

It was a steeper hill in my opinion and looking back on all the dynamics it was maybe like a super cell storm. A lot of bad hot air running into the cold, plenty of moisture hitting a dry atmosphere…and we all got into the vortex and torn up.

Really, who could have prepared for all of that?

259
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:07:36pm

re: #256 Shiplord Kirel

Btw, Lopez has written a self-published book called Wackos Thugs and Perverts: Clintonian Decadence in Academia in which he blames the Clintons for debauchery and general gayness in the academic world.

Guy sounds like a real piece of work.

260
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:08:34pm

re: #236 ObserverArt

In 1988, Mrs. FBW and I drove across the US on Rt 80. I vividly remember one small town in Iowa where we stopped for dinner (which was awful). It looked like many a small town, with a bank, a cafe, a couple of stores.

Or, a couple of storeFRONTS. One of the buildings had apparently been gutted by fire, years ago, and now there was the brick storefront, complete with the big windows, but with no glass. No store behind it, just overgrown weeds.

There were a handful of cars in the whole town. Only one other party in the cafe. The town was dying, or had died. And that was 29 years ago.

261
Decatur Deb  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:14:32pm

re: #258 ObserverArt

I understand your point, but there were certainly other things going on in this election that were not in previous elections and they had as much to do with it as what you see as not working.

A few: Russians, fake news, the media following the TV star for ratings, and what I think was a biggie, the first woman coming just after the first Black president that was slimed and resisted and made to look bad, and she was running as a continuation of his policies, the emails, the emails, the emails and the FBI, our citizens (those you talked about upthread) being really really ignorant and evil.

It was a steeper hill in my opinion and looking back on all the dynamics it was maybe like a super cell storm. A lot of bad hot air running into the cold, plenty of moisture hitting a dry atmosphere…and we all got into the vortex and torn up.

Really, who could have prepared for all of that?

That’s the point. We didn’t lose because of all of that—just avoiding one or two of the pitfalls would have turned the trick. Still waiting for a credible post-mortem from anyone versed in the election. Perhaps the guys who did The Victory Lab in 2012 will do a sequel.

amazon.com

262
EPR-radar  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:15:05pm

re: #256 Shiplord Kirel

Btw, Lopez has written a self-published book called Wackos Thugs and Perverts: Clintonian Decadence in Academia in which he blames the Clintons for debauchery and general gayness in the academic world.

I think it fair to assume that Lopez is a self-loathing closet case. You don’t get to this level of anti-gay nonsense just by taking your preacher’s interpretation of the Bible seriously.

263
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:16:20pm

re: #261 Decatur Deb

That’s the point. We didn’t lose because of all of that—just avoiding one or two of the pitfalls would have turned the trick. Still waiting for a credible post-mortem from anyone versed in the election. Perhaps the guys who did The Victory Lab in 2012 will do a sequel.

amazon.com

My post mortem: “Think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are stupider than that.”

264
Belafon  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:16:49pm
265
Barefoot Grin  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:17:18pm

re: #140 Blind Frog Belly White

Read the whole thread. He raises interesting points about why “We’re gonna bring back COAL!!!” resonates in Appalachia.

[Embedded content]

Take home is that because coal put a LOT of people to work, for a lot of years, paying good wages with no education, it created the expectation that this was how things were SUPPOSED TO BE. And as a result, there’s the expectation that it can be that way again.

It can’t.

Somewhat unspoken is the point that the plentiful, well paying mining jobs for the uneducated devalued education among a population prone to mistrust education in the first place, so nobody put money into it.

Heh, I know Lyman Stone. He was a smart and fairly open-minded student.

266
Stanley Sea  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:18:06pm

Name sounds familiar - has LGF covered her bs?

267
ObserverArt  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:18:49pm

re: #214 ObserverArt

Damn Frank…you seem to have hit a vane of far-leftest/libertarian/contrarian Twitter Political Editorialists. It’s the motherlode!!!

How do you do it?

Dammit!!! I get too busy trying to catch up I do stooopid spelling errors.

It should be vein.

I’ll show myself out now…

268
Unshaken Defiance  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:21:15pm

re: #222 freetoken

The bottom line is we’re stuck with a lot of 18th century thinking and institutions in a 21st century world that needs to work a different way.

This.

269
danarchy  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:23:25pm

re: #251 EPR-radar

$10 million per year is on the low end for US CEO compensation. Assuming (!) a 2000 hour work year, that works out to $5000 an hour.

There is absolutely no way to justify that kind of compensation for anyone who isn’t performing at godlike levels. Most of these folks are nowhere near that level, despite their press releases to that effect.

If your only talking about fortune 500 companies your numbers are right. The majority of CEOs in the US are not fortune 500 CEOs.

While I agree some of their compensation is way out of whack with their actual performance, much like a sports team signing top pro athletes or a producer signing a big star to his next movie, you are always taking a chance signing that contract. Why should a CEO being hired to run a company with billions or 100’s of billions in revenue not be paid as much as Tom Brady or Tom Cruise?

270
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:26:06pm
271
ObserverArt  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:27:21pm

re: #261 Decatur Deb

That’s the point. We didn’t lose because of all of that—just avoiding one or two of the pitfalls would have turned the trick. Still waiting for a credible post-mortem from anyone versed in the election. Perhaps the guys who did The Victory Lab in 2012 will do a sequel.

amazon.com

How do you avoid all that was coming at the speed and timing it occurred?

You can be the world’s best fireman, all trained and experienced in everything. But then in a fire you’re already fighting someone comes along with a KC-135 Stratotanker and dumps its load of jet fuel on your fire.

Voom! Fireman gone.

It’s easy to look back and say, we probably should have avoided that.

Yeah, we should have. /

272
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:30:23pm

re: #271 ObserverArt

How do you avoid all that was coming at the speed and timing it occurred?

You can be the world’s best fireman, all trained and experienced in everything. But then in a fire you already fighting someone comes along with a KC-135 Stratotanker and dumps its load of jet fuel on your fire.

Voom! Fireman gone.

It’s easy to look back and say, we probably should have avoided that.

Yeah, we should have. /

YouTube

273
Eventual Carrion  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:30:28pm

re: #250 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

Always thinking of the children I see.

274
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:30:33pm

re: #269 danarchy

If your only talking about fortune 500 companies your numbers are right. The majority of CEOs in the US are not fortune 500 CEOs.

While I agree some of their compensation is way out of whack with their actual performance, much like a sports team signing top pro athletes or a producer signing a big star to his next movie, you are always taking a chance signing that contract. Why should a CEO being hired to run a company with billions or 100’s of billions in revenue not be paid as much as Tom Brady or Tom Cruise?

I think the problem many have myself included is that while executive compensation has gone up, the average worker’s compensation has stagnated even though productivity has increased. I don’t mind my boss making more than me. I do mind him giving himself a pay day and leaving me and my coworkers behind.

275
Bubblehead II  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:31:20pm

Night Lizards. Tomorrow is going to interesting.


High Wind Warning

URGENT - WEATHER MESSAGE
National Weather Service Boise ID
1154 AM MDT Wed Mar 29 2017

…High Winds Thursday and Thursday evening…

A North Pacific storm will bring high winds Thursday to part of
southwestern Idaho and very windy conditions to the rest of
eastern Oregon and western Idaho. Strongest winds will be in the
Snake Basin east of Boise and south to the Idaho/Nevada border.
These winds will follow passage of a cold front early Thursday
morning and will blow from the west or northwest through the rest
of the day and Thursday evening.

IDZ01[no phone numbers allowed]00-
/O.UPG.KBOI.WI.Y.0004.170330T1500Z-170331T0600Z/
/O.NEW.KBOI.HW.W.0001.170330T1500Z-170331T0600Z/
Upper Treasure Valley-Western Magic Valley-
Southern Twin Falls County-
1154 AM MDT Wed Mar 29 2017

…HIGH WIND WARNING IN EFFECT FROM 9 AM THURSDAY TO MIDNIGHT MDT
THURSDAY NIGHT…

The National Weather Service in Boise has issued a High Wind
Warning, which is in effect from 9 AM Thursday to midnight MDT
Thursday night. The Wind Advisory is no longer in effect.

* WINDS…West or northwest 35 to 40 mph with gusts to 55 mph. The
area of greatest concern is the Snake River Basin from just
east of Boise and south to the Idaho/Nevada border.

* TIMING…Late Thursday morning after passage of a cold front,
and continuing through Thursday evening.

* IMPACTS…Travel hazard for high profile vehicles, and on north-
south roads due to cross winds. Minor property damage. Branches
may break off trees.

PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS…

A High Wind Warning means a hazardous high wind event is expected
or occurring. Sustained wind speeds of at least 40 mph or gusts
of 58 mph or more can lead to property damage.

What climate change? This is all perfectly normal……………

Says the guy who just mowed his yard for the first time in fucking march

276
Unshaken Defiance  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:31:41pm

re: #269 danarchy

If your only talking about fortune 500 companies your numbers are right. The majority of CEOs in the US are not fortune 500 CEOs.

While I agree some of their compensation is way out of whack with their actual performance, much like a sports team signing top pro athletes or a producer signing a big star to his next movie, you are always taking a chance signing that contract. Why should a CEO being hired to run a company with billions or 100’s of billions in revenue not be paid as much as Tom Brady or Tom Cruise?

To me the conversation assuming pay excess in sports or corporate worlds should come at a proportion. Is that pay sucking the life out of fair pay for the rest of the players, actors, or workers/managers? If not move on. If so have at it. The other thing is perhaps who we are talking about. Elon Musk is not a fair comparison to a Wal-Mart Walton. From time to time actors and managers leave money on the table for others.

I remember that with the best intention, we made a law that penalized big salaries. Then corporate started paying in stock options, a device intended to let small/med capital companies hunt for talent and skilled executives like the bigger fish. Epic backfire.

277
EPR-radar  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:31:48pm

re: #269 danarchy

If your only talking about fortune 500 companies your numbers are right. The majority of CEOs in the US are not fortune 500 CEOs.

While I agree some of their compensation is way out of whack with their actual performance, much like a sports team signing top pro athletes or a producer signing a big star to his next movie, you are always taking a chance signing that contract. Why should a CEO being hired to run a company with billions or 100’s of billions in revenue not be paid as much as Tom Brady or Tom Cruise?

That is essentially the ‘skimming’ model of CEO compensation that has become the norm at big corporations. As long as what the executives rake off is small compared to total revenue or total profit, very few people see anything wrong with it.

To answer the question, pro athletes have short careers and the marketplace does take their talent (or lack thereof) account, at least imperfectly. Actors can have longer careers, but their performance still matters in a way that CEO performance typically does not.

In contrast, the typical CEO compensation model in a US big corporation is to pay the CEO the big bucks each and every year in ways that are pretty much independent of the performance of the company or of the CEO. For example, executive stock options are routinely repriced when the company stock price goes down making prior executive options worthless.

278
EPR-radar  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:35:09pm

re: #276 Unshaken Defiance

To me the conversation assuming pay excess in sports or corporate worlds should come at a proportion. Is that pay sucking the life out of fair pay for the rest of the players, actors, or workers/managers? If not move on. If so have at it. The other thing is perhaps who we are talking about. Elon Musk is not a fair comparison to a Wal-Mart Walton. From time to time actors and managers leave money on the table for others.

I remember that with the best intention, we made a law that penalized big salaries. Then corporate started paying in stock options, a device intended to let small/med capital companies hunt for talent and skilled executives like the bigger fish. Epic backfire.

If we had rational governance in the US, that big salary penalty issue is the kind of problem that could be fixed.

279
HappyWarrior  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:35:22pm

I’m okay with successful companies’ owners and executives being rewarded. However, too often these guys are willing to give themselves a nice pay day when they don’t even consider the rank and file that help make their company work. No, not everyone can make six figures but I’d like to see more executives in this country acknowledge that their employees help drive their success too. We never see that labor is human capital. Labor is a single mom working nights so her kids can have a good life, labor is an immigrant working his ass off, labor is a college kid working part time to help make his tuition costs more bearable, etc. We don’t need socialism but we need humanistic capitalism.

280
EPR-radar  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:36:33pm

re: #279 HappyWarrior

I’m okay with successful companies’ owners and executives being rewarded. However, too often these guys are willing to give themselves a nice pay day when they don’t even consider the rank and file that help make their company work. No, not everyone can make six figures but I’d like to see more executives in this country acknowledge that their employees help drive their success too. We never see that labor is human capital. Labor is a single mom working nights so her kids can have a good life, labor is an immigrant working his ass off, labor is a college kid working part time to help make his tuition costs more bearable, etc. We don’t need socialism but we need humanistic capitalism.

For example, I’m sure the executives at Kodak were paying themselves handsomely for decades as they drove the company into the ditch.

281
William Lewis  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:37:29pm

re: #268 Unshaken Defiance

Hey, did you hear about the coin (singular) that got stolen in Berlin? Be on the lookout for someone trying to move 221 lbs of gold…

nytimes.com

282
teleskiguy  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:37:57pm
283
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:38:44pm

re: #277 EPR-radar

(snip) For example, executive stock options are routinely repriced when the company stock price goes down making prior executive options worthless.

Man, I could sure have used option repricing at my last job. I worked there 8 years. At no point was any option that I held NOT underwater by the time it passed its one year vesting cliff. When I was laid off*, they gave me the list of all my vested options with their option prices. I added them up:

Total exercise price of all options granted: ~$450,000.

Total market value of all options granted: ~$40,000.

*As part of the final downsizing, leaving the once 250-person company with 6 people.

284
danarchy  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:39:51pm

re: #276 Unshaken Defiance

To me the conversation assuming pay excess in sports or corporate worlds should come at a proportion. Is that pay sucking the life out of fair pay for the rest of the players, actors, or workers/managers? If not move on. If so have at it. The other thing is perhaps who we are talking about. Elon Musk is not a fair comparison to a Wal-Mart Walton. From time to time actors and managers leave money on the table for others.

I remember that with the best intention, we made a law that penalized big salaries. Then corporate started paying in stock options, a device intended to let small/med capital companies hunt for talent and skilled executives like the bigger fish. Epic backfire.

CEO salaries have almost nothing to do with worker compensation. Let’s say Rex Tillerson didn’t take a penny of his 25 million dollars from Exxon and instead divided it equally with Exxon’s 85000 or so employees. That would give them all approximately a $300/year raise. The problem is more the obsessive need to increase shareholder value at all costs.

285
SteveMcG RN  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:40:19pm

re: #276 Unshaken Defiance

I have two thoughts on the matter. First, I think the tax cuts of the 80s actually made a disincentive to have payrolls keep up with inflation and other factors. Those cuts made an incentive to squeeze every possible penny out of the business.
Second, I think stock options are underappreciated. I remember Disney stockholders rebelling against Michael Eisner even though the stock split two or three times during his tenure (and also forgetting that during that same tenure, what had become a stagnant business after Walt’s passing came back to life. The man left a lot to be desired, but he did some things right.

286
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:40:34pm

re: #281 William Lewis

Hey, did you hear about the coin (singular) that got stolen in Berlin? Be on the lookout for someone trying to move 221 lbs of gold…

nytimes.com

“Berlin, where the manhole covers are made of GOLD!!!!”

287
danarchy  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:42:04pm

re: #277 EPR-radar

In contrast, the typical CEO compensation model in a US big corporation is to pay the CEO the big bucks each and every year in ways that are pretty much independent of the performance of the company or of the CEO. For example, executive stock options are routinely repriced when the company stock price goes down making prior executive options worthless.

This seems like more of a problem of corporate governance, the incestuous nature of these companies Boards than a compensation problem.

288
Backwoods_Sleuth  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:44:05pm

re: #236 ObserverArt

Another thing that might come from it all, those new residents to the big city might not cling to some of the old ways…meaning some will become more liberal in their thinking and hopefully in their politics.

And then there’s JD Vance…

289
SteveMcG RN  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:49:05pm

Speaking of Eisner, from investors.com
“Disney’s market cap increased from $2 billion to $53 billion from 1984 to 1996. Eisner could point to 18 new businesses into which he’d led the company since taking the reins, including professional sports teams, live Broadway shows and Disney stores.”
My Donald Trump loving MIL (who now owns nearly $1M worth of DIsney stock thanks to this) still says he robbed the company blind.

290
Blind Frog Belly White  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:50:06pm

re: #289 SteveMcG RN

Speaking of Eisner, from investors.com
“Disney’s market cap increased from $2 billion to $53 billion from 1984 to 1996. Eisner could point to 18 new businesses into which he’d led the company since taking the reins, including professional sports teams, live Broadway shows and Disney stores.”
My Donald Trump loving MIL still says he robbed the company blind.

Well, THERE’S your PROBLEM!!
//////

291
Decatur Deb  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:53:30pm

re: #271 ObserverArt

How do you avoid all that was coming at the speed and timing it occurred?

You can be the world’s best fireman, all trained and experienced in everything. But then in a fire you’re already fighting someone comes along with a KC-135 Stratotanker and dumps its load of jet fuel on your fire.

Voom! Fireman gone.

It’s easy to look back and say, we probably should have avoided that.

Yeah, we should have. /

Let’s avoid a bit of it next time.

292
Unshaken Defiance  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:53:31pm

re: #281 William Lewis

Hey, did you hear about the coin (singular) that got stolen in Berlin? Be on the lookout for someone trying to move 221 lbs of gold…

nytimes.com

I did. Gold is hard to run off with in terms of a really big heist. 221 pounds in a dense object? Got a hand truck? Then there was that guy in NYC that just grabbed a heavy bucket of scrap gold. Waddled off with it. Ft Knox? You need a convoy of trucks for the weight.

But a jewelry heist classic is take the whole safe. Two, three tons plus contents. Inside job on a holiday weekend. Fun fact and a couple bad movies….

293
teleskiguy  Mar 29, 2017 • 6:58:55pm

The guy couldn’t even stand on his own two legs without much assistance, still threw the ceremonial first pitch.

294
William Lewis  Mar 29, 2017 • 7:00:20pm

re: #292 Unshaken Defiance

I did. Gold is hard to run off with in terms of a really big heist. 221 pounds in a dense object? Got a hand truck? Then there was that guy in NYC that just grabbed a heavy bucket of scrap gold. Waddled off with it. Ft Knox? You need a convoy of trucks for the weight.

But a jewelry heist classic is take the whole safe. Two, three tons plus contents. Inside job on a holiday weekend. Fun fact and a couple bad movies….

My favorite gold heist remains “Kelly’s Heroes” ;) Especially the M4A3E4’s but I digress < VBG >

295
SteveMcG RN  Mar 29, 2017 • 7:00:28pm

re: #290 Blind Frog Belly White

WOW!! from slate.com

from 1984 to 2004
Revenue 1.5B to 30.8B
Income 294 Million to 4.49 Billion
Tax-Free Cash flow 100 Million to 2.9 Billion
Stock Price $1.33 to $28.40
Market Value 1.9 Billion to 57.4 Billion.

296
Unshaken Defiance  Mar 29, 2017 • 7:01:18pm

re: #284 danarchy

CEO salaries have almost nothing to do with worker compensation. Let’s say Rex Tillerson didn’t take a penny of his 25 million dollars from Exxon and instead divided it equally with Exxon’s 85000 or so employees. That would give them all approximately a $300/year raise. The problem is more the obsessive need to increase shareholder value at all costs.

In your example, absolutely correct. On the set of a big hit TV show or tent pole film? It can be the opposite way around. A top guy gives up a couple million (say 10%) and the supporting cast does way better at his request.

Corporate, well if you are Boeing it’s way different than The Richline Group. Richline is a Warren Buffet entry into jewelry in a huge way.

Point is generalizations are perilous.

297
EPR-radar  Mar 29, 2017 • 7:01:21pm

re: #287 danarchy

This seems like more of a problem of corporate governance, the incestuous nature of these companies Boards than a compensation problem.

Corporate governance for US bigcorps is one of the biggest jokes in creation.

298
EPR-radar  Mar 29, 2017 • 7:04:12pm

re: #284 danarchy

CEO salaries have almost nothing to do with worker compensation. Let’s say Rex Tillerson didn’t take a penny of his 25 million dollars from Exxon and instead divided it equally with Exxon’s 85000 or so employees. That would give them all approximately a $300/year raise. The problem is more the obsessive need to increase shareholder value at all costs.

That’s a piece of math that goes nowhere. The point is not that the CEO’s compensation should be shared out among the workers. The point is that the CEO’s compensation is an obscenity on its face.

299
teleskiguy  Mar 29, 2017 • 7:05:35pm

re: #297 EPR-radar

Corporate governance for US bigcorps is one of the biggest jokes in creation.

See: Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, 2010

300
Unshaken Defiance  Mar 29, 2017 • 7:07:16pm

re: #298 EPR-radar

That’s a piece of math that goes nowhere. The point is not that the CEO’s compensation should be shared out among the workers. The point is that the CEO’s compensation is an obscenity on its face.

From where then does the fair compensation number come from?

301
EPR-radar  Mar 29, 2017 • 7:09:01pm

re: #300 Unshaken Defiance

From where then does the fair compensation number come from?

It needs to come from something other than executives setting their own compensation to a level just barely below what will provoke a shareholder lawsuit.

As usual, the problem is easier to identify than to solve.

302
Eric The Fruit Bat  Mar 29, 2017 • 7:11:26pm

The indictment of Daldien was indeed big news-but this little cherry on the top just makes thing even sweeter….

Ars Technica: Secretly recorded Planned Parenthood tapes barred from publication

A federal appeals court on Wednesday upheld a lower’s court’s injunction barring anti-abortion activists from distributing video they secretly recorded of Planned Parenthood conferences and of other meetings with women’s healthcare providers.
A San Francisco federal judge initially handed down an injunction on the side of the National Abortion Federation in 2015, after being convinced that the activists had signed agreements that they would not disseminate any information from the meetings with women’s healthcare providers. The case attracted attention from media rights groups like the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press, which argued that a prior restraint on publication bears a “heavy presumption against its constitutional validity.”
Some of the footage, meanwhile, was of activists trying to get fetal tissue from Planned Parenthood.

303
SteveMcG RN  Mar 29, 2017 • 7:11:27pm

Just following my OT Eisner distraction, I was reading more and he was pushed out by investors who were pissed that Disney didn’t sell off those assets that were bringing in so much money. (especially Capital CIties / ESPN).

304
Unshaken Defiance  Mar 29, 2017 • 7:11:34pm

re: #301 EPR-radar

It needs to come from something other than executives setting their own compensation to a level just barely below what will provoke a shareholder lawsuit.

As usual, the problem is easier to identify than to solve.

There may be a number that reflects some proportion on the gross as a base and the profitability or goal outcome based bonus. Analogous to stock dividend formula.

305
EPR-radar  Mar 29, 2017 • 7:14:26pm

re: #304 Unshaken Defiance

There may be a number that reflects some proportion on the gross as a base and the profitability or goal outcome based bonus. Analogous to stock dividend formula.

I prefer something much more direct — force ‘trickle down’ to be real. No more than a factor of X difference between the lowest and highest hourly compensation rates for companies above a certain size, applied equally to employee labor and contract labor.

306
EPR-radar  Mar 29, 2017 • 7:16:04pm

re: #299 teleskiguy

See: Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, 2010

How does Citizens United relate to corporate governance (i.e., the board of directors acting as a check on senior management)?

307
Unshaken Defiance  Mar 29, 2017 • 7:16:17pm

re: #305 EPR-radar

I prefer something much more direct — force ‘trickle down’ to be real. No more than a factor of X difference between the lowest and highest hourly compensation rates for companies above a certain size, applied equally to employee labor and contract labor.

So the minimum wage set the maximum CEO / executive salary as an absolute. A salary ceiling/cap. Interesting.

308
EPR-radar  Mar 29, 2017 • 7:17:10pm

re: #307 Unshaken Defiance

So the minimum wage set the maximum CEO / executive salary as an absolute. A salary ceiling/cap. Interesting.

It is a nice idea. IIRC Ben and Jerry’s tried it unsuccessfully a few years back.

309
danarchy  Mar 29, 2017 • 7:19:42pm

re: #298 EPR-radar

That’s a piece of math that goes nowhere. The point is not that the CEO’s compensation should be shared out among the workers. The point is that the CEO’s compensation is an obscenity on its face.

Two things. First, I was responding to a comment about leaving money on the table for other workers etc. So I think that was exactly the point. Second, that is a matter of opinion. My opinion is a bad CEO making that kind of money is obscene, a good CEO can be worth every penny. Unfortunately it is hard to tell if they are going to be good or bad until you give them the reins for a while

You clearly disagree and that’s fine.

310
gocart mozart  Mar 29, 2017 • 7:24:02pm
311
gocart mozart  Mar 29, 2017 • 7:25:05pm
312
BeachDem  Mar 29, 2017 • 7:40:36pm

re: #264 Belafon

[Embedded content]

The emperor’s new wall.

313
fern01  Mar 29, 2017 • 8:04:43pm

re: #309 danarchy

Two things. First, I was responding to a comment about leaving money on the table for other workers etc. So I think that was exactly the point. Second, that is a matter of opinion. My opinion is a bad CEO making that kind of money is obscene, a good CEO can be worth every penny. Unfortunately it is hard to tell if they are going to be good or bad until you give them the reins for a while

You clearly disagree and that’s fine.

NO one person is worth the obscene amounts of money paid to CEOs. In my youth (long time ago) CEOs earned about 10 times the base salary level - now they earn 100-500 times the base. IF they are entrepreneurs and OWN the company - different story - but today’s CEOs do not and never will own the company. They have some shares in the company - usually given to them because - ahhhh - because they are the CEO.

314
wheat-dogg  Mar 29, 2017 • 9:49:46pm

re: #186 teleskiguy

I watched Bush’s appearance on Kimmel’s show earlier this month. Judging from what he said and didn’t say during that interview, I can believe he called Trump’s speech “some weird shit.”

It goes beyond Trump’s insults of Jeb!. The Bushes are a stalwart Republican family, from the corporate, landed-class faction of the party. They probably watched in horror as Trump campaigned, was nominated and was elected to the office both Georges occupied.

Shit, I’d be in tears.

Jimmy Kimmel’s FULL INTERVIEW with President George W. Bush

315
wheat-dogg  Mar 29, 2017 • 9:59:04pm

re: #230 jaunte

I imagine there’s another onerous regulation about that in danger of being eliminated.

They can always blow (up) the autopilot.

Airplane! Autopilot


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Orkestra Obsolete Play Blue Monday Using 1930s Instruments - BBC Arts More information: bbc.in New Order's Blue Monday was released on 7 March 1983, and its cutting-edge electronic groove changed pop music forever. But what would it have sounded like if it had been made 50 years earlier? In a ...
Thanos
2 days, 9 hours ago
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Tune-Yards - ABC 123 (Official Video) 'ABC 123' by Tune-Yards. New album 'I can feel you creep into my private life' is released January 19th 2018: smarturl.it Director: Dear Mr QuistgaardProducer: Abi Atkinson, LS ProductionsCommissioner: Gabe Spierer, Beggars GroupExec Producer: Saskia Whinney, SomesuchDOP: Deepa KeshvalaEditor: ...
Thanos
2 days, 9 hours ago
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Funding Restrictions Have Made Gun Violence Researchers Get Creative A study published Thursday concludes that a subsequent increase in gun exposure led to more accidental firearm deaths than otherwise would have occurred in the months after the school shooting. "It was the spike [in sales] itself that sort ...
Thanos
2 days, 11 hours ago
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Recycling Chaos in U.S. As China Bans ‘Foreign Waste’ Like many Portland residents, Satish and Arlene Palshikar are serious recyclers. Their house is coated with recycled bluish-white paint. They recycle their rainwater, compost their food waste and carefully separate the paper and plastic they toss out. But recently, ...
Thanos
2 days, 11 hours ago
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Trump Jerusalem Move: Tear Gas at Lebanon US Embassy Protest There have been violent clashes near the US embassy in Lebanon, in the latest protest against President Donald Trump's decision to recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Security forces fired tear gas and water cannon to force back ...
Thanos
2 days, 11 hours ago
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Trump Says He and Trudeau Disagree on Trade Deficit. U.S. Stats Seem to Be on the PM’s SideHair Furor just can't seem to catch a break these days....Despite Trump's insistence the U.S. has a trade deficit with Canada, statistics from the website of the office of the U.S. Trade Representative -- the office handling NAFTA negotiations -- ...
The Major
2 days, 17 hours ago
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Blondie - Doom or Destiny (Official Video)Blondie performing "Doom or Destiny" from the new album "Pollinator".Out Now: blondie.lnk.to Follow Blondiefacebook.cominstagram.com@BlondieOfficial vevo.ly
Thanos
3 days, 20 hours ago
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Beth Hart & Joe Bonamassa - Black Coffee (Official Music Video) Official video for Black Coffee from the new Beth Hart & Joe Bonamassa album Black Coffee. Pre-order: smarturl.it BLACK COFFEE is available to pre-order on CD and vinyl. The limited CD box includes 2 coasters, a postcard and an ...
Thanos
3 days, 20 hours ago
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Sparks - ‘This Town Ain’t Big Enough for Both of Us’ (Live at WFUV) wfuv.org • Follow @wfuv: ow.ly Sparks (allsparks.com) performs "This Town Ain't Big Enough For Both of Us" live in Studio A. Recorded 10.12.17. Host: Darren DeVivoAudio: Jim O'HaraCameras: Dan Tuozzoli, Kristal Ho, Monica Fafaul, Alexandra Brennan and Liz CarrEditor: ...
Thanos
3 days, 20 hours ago
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