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1 b_Snark  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 4:29:50pm

You cannot stress the ideas of testing and prediction too much. Every hypothesis is tested against another hypothesis even if that hypothesis is just the null-hypothesis. With this I am not implying the null hypothesis is unimportant, the particular null hypothesis chosen must be testable and predict an outcome different than alternative hypothesis.

I've run across a number of people, primarily creationists, who believe the Bible stories can be tested and result in the same outcome as non-Biblical geology/archeaology/physics/... , who do not understand the results of tests have to be unique and usually exclusive.

Before getting to the four steps, it is important to note that nowhere in this definition is there any room for democracy, personal preference or being “even handed” with the other side. In a scientific debate, once sufficient data comes in, there is always a winner and a loser.

This quote needs to be repeated frequently.

Well done LVQ.

2 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 5:06:26pm

The other common argument that crops up often is the mistaken belief that if a hypothesis is disproven it automatically makes an alternative hypothesis valid. A hypothesis has to stand independently on its own in describing the world, provide predictions, and also be falsifiable.

Therefore, if evidence did turn up that overturned biological evolution it would still not make creationism true by default.

3 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 6:23:36pm

re: #1 b_sharp

You cannot stress the ideas of testing and prediction too much. Every hypothesis is tested against another hypothesis even if that hypothesis is just the null-hypothesis. With this I am not implying the null hypothesis is unimportant, the particular null hypothesis chosen must be testable and predict an outcome different than alternative hypothesis.

I've run across a number of people, primarily creationists, who believe the Bible stories can be tested and result in the same outcome as non-Biblical geology/archeaology/physics/... , who do not understand the results of tests have to be unique and usually exclusive.

This quote needs to be repeated frequently.

Well done LVQ.

Excellent comment and thank you. The entire point of the experiment is to reject or support an hypothesis. Once the data is verified as being good and against you, you are done.

4 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 6:25:10pm

re: #2 oaktree

The other common argument that crops up often is the mistaken belief that if a hypothesis is disproven it automatically makes an alternative hypothesis valid. A hypothesis has to stand independently on its own in describing the world, provide predictions, and also be falsifiable.

Therefore, if evidence did turn up that overturned biological evolution it would still not make creationism true by default.

Well said.

In other words, proving that Abraham Lincoln was not in reality a short Asian woman in disguise, does not prove that in reality he was a Russian Jew.

5 freetoken  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:04:41pm
The four steps:

1. An interesting phenomenon is observed ...

2. A hypothesis is formed ...

3. If the hypothesis actually reflects what is going on, ...

4. Evidence mounts. ...

Oh c'mon Ludwig, who are you trying to convince? Everybody knows the "four steps" are this:

1. Indoctrinate a young person in a government school to accept whatever a government official tells them.

2. Have that person go to a tax payer run college, have the government pay for a majority of the costs of tuition, after which that person will be awarded with a "degree" in "science."

3. Then that person goes to work as a "scientist" getting paid again out of tax money.

4. After a few years that person then writes proposals for grants (for more tax money) to support their "research", citing all sorts of "findings" that just happen to (miraculously) support the spending of even more government money.

The public is onto the con-game. Fess up!

6 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:17:42pm

re: #5 freetoken

Oh c'mon Ludwig, who are you trying to convince? Everybody knows the "four steps" are this:

1. Indoctrinate a young person in a government school to accept whatever a government official tells them.

2. Have that person go to a tax payer run college, have the government pay for a majority of the costs of tuition, after which that person will be awarded with a "degree" in "science."

3. Then that person goes to work as a "scientist" getting paid again out of tax money.

4. After a few years that person then writes proposals for grants (for more tax money) to support their "research", citing all sorts of "findings" that just happen to (miraculously) support the spending of even more government money.

The public is onto the con-game. Fess up!

Brilliant! Just add the sarc tags, because otherwise this is a Poe's law post!

7 freetoken  Wed, Sep 29, 2010 9:49:56pm

re: #6 LudwigVanQuixote

If I need a tag then I've failed.


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