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1 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 6, 2011 12:22:02pm

How easily people are manipulated by a pretty lady, hahaha

At some point, I just can’t be outraged, because I just figure this is always how it’s going to be, a savvy manipulator with good looks always gets the rubes on their side

2 Buck  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 8:02:00am

Ya, she is just a pretty woman. Using her good looks to manipulate the rubes.

Wow! Taking lessons in Misogyny from Ludwig?

She clearly feels strongly that there are organizations that are willingly supporting the crime of prostitution and in this case even child slavery, rape and endangerment.

There is nothing in the law that says they have to give ANY advice to someone who admits to using children in that way.

You NEVER have to provide useful information to a self-proclaimed child molester.

When the rapist asks how soon the child will be able to get back to earning money, and you say two weeks and advise that they could still earn money “above the waist”… It is clear to everyone where your judgement is. This isn’t providing useful birth control information. This is very close to aiding and abetting.

You have not seen all the videos yet. You don’t know when they called the authorities. The timeline is NOT clear yet. It has been reported that the first time the authorities were called in after the 10th video was made.

We have only seen 2 out of the possible 15.

3 simoom  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 9:37:58am

re: #2 Buck

We have only seen 2 out of the possible 15.

If Live Action had even a shred of evidence that PP has a national policy of illegal behavior, they’d be crowing to the rooftops and we’d already know it. Instead we’re just seeing a string of anecdotal evidence, framed to make a receptive audience believe what they’re seeing is illegal and pervasive.

en.wikipedia.org

4 Interesting Times  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 9:47:34am

re: #3 simoom

To say nothing of how Live Action is deliberately doctoring the videos:

No wonder they’ve only released 2 out of 15 - they’ve yet to finish tampering with the other thirteen :P

5 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 10:41:34am

re: #2 Buck

She clearly feels strongly that there are organizations that are willingly supporting the crime of prostitution and in this case even child slavery, rape and endangerment.

Bullshit, Buck. Absolute bullshit.

Lila Rose is an anti-abortion fanatic. She could not care less about real child slavery — she was cynically using this as a trick, in order to smear an organization that helps millions of low-income women every day, because her fanatical religious views tell her it’s fine to lie, distort, and fabricate evidence if it furthers the cause of destroying women’s rights.

There’s nothing praiseworthy here. It’s a cheap, ugly smear from a cheap, ugly group of fundamentalist nutjobs.

6 Michael McBacon  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 10:43:01am

re: #2 Buck

She clearly feels strongly that there are organizations that are willingly supporting the crime of prostitution and in this case even child slavery, rape and endangerment.

Buck, how do you distinguish a genuine outrage from an outrageous one?

7 Buck  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 11:15:47am

Charles, I am sorry you have become so jaded and hating.

I can’t look into her heart and know her real motivation, BUT I can watch these videos and see what I see. I can hear what they are saying. It really doesn’t matter why she did the videos.

I really think the whole “edited video” automatically equals hoax thing is Media Matters invented. Every one edits the video for length and content. 60 Minutes have been doing it for years.

I am NOT pro life, I am pro choice. 100% dedicated to that.

These videos do not have to be about abortion. They are not exposing the fact that abortions are taking place. That is a given. Nothing on these videos is pointing to “no abortions for any woman anytime”.

However the videos do show a willingness to “for the sake of the child” make sure that even abused children get abortions. Even if it means sending them back in the horror they came from.

I think you need to step away from your tribe for a minute and try and see this.

8 Buck  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 11:23:03am

re: #6 UNIXon

Buck, how do you distinguish a genuine outrage from an outrageous one?

Well, I thought the whole “the GOP is trying to redefine rape” thing was a perfect example of outrageous outrage. Every year the left tries to make abortion the central theme. The others are trying to take away the right to choose.

Well I see it differently. Everyone, on both sides should be trying to regulate it, and manage it. The house of horrors in Pittsburgh is a great example of that.

If you watch the videos, and don’t allow media matters to spin it then you see actual outrageous activity. You hear outrageous things. Things you (even if you are 100% pro choice, which I am) would not say, things you would not do.

Media Matters called it a hoax immediately. I don’t believe it is a hoax. I don’t see it. I don’t trust media matters. I read what they do with a critical thought. I just don’t see that there is anyway to expose people. Even if you can see and hear them, they think that can just yell HOAX, or EDITED and that should be the end of it.

Who are going to believe? Media Matters or your lying eyes?

9 RadicalModerate  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 11:37:33am

re: #8 Buck


Media Matters called it a hoax immediately. I don’t believe it is a hoax. I don’t see it. I don’t trust media matters. I read what they do with a critical thought. I just don’t see that there is anyway to expose people. Even if you can see and hear them, they think that can just yell HOAX, or EDITED and that should be the end of it.

Who are going to believe? Media Matters or your lying eyes?

Given a choice between Media Matters, who source (and provide IN-CONTEXT recordings of) statements of the individuals in their articles, and the compatriot of convicted criminal (and notorious fake-video producer) James O’Keefe - who, by the way, worked with Lila Rose on many of these Planned Parenthood “exposes”?
en.wikipedia.org

Really easy choice for me.

10 Buck  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:10:05pm

And how would you explain that the one Planned Parenthood employee was fired?

That they were taken in by these fake videos, and should not have fired her?

Or do you think they found real wrongdoing, and chose to not have her working for them anymore?

11 palomino  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:26:19pm

re: #10 Buck

And how would you explain that the one Planned Parenthood employee was fired?

That they were taken in by these fake videos, and should not have fired her?

Or do you think they found real wrongdoing, and chose to not have her working for them anymore?

Yes, ONE Planned Parenthood employee was fired. So what? It’s not mutually exclusive to have dumb misguided employees at PP and a smear campaign by Lila Rose and those of her ilk.

You’re assuming the worst about PP while admitting you haven’t even seen the full videos or all the other evidence. Weak stuff.

12 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:26:33pm

re: #10 Buck

Maybe one planned parenthood person did fuck up in some way.

How does that justify this attack on planned parenthood? Didn’t you learn fucking anything from the smear of Shirley Sherrod— a smear which you defended, at length?

13 palomino  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:30:39pm

re: #7 Buck

Charles, I am sorry you have become so jaded and hating.

I think you need to step away from your tribe for a minute and try and see this.

Maybe you could explain how Charles (and those of us who agree with him on this issue) are haters. It’s a strong charge; back it up, Buck.

As for his tribe, that’s a fallacy. Of all the political bloggers out there, CJ is one of the least partisan or tribalistic. Seems like an independent who leans different directions on different issues.

14 Buck  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:31:03pm

re: #11 palomino

Yes, ONE Planned Parenthood employee was fired. So what? It’s not mutually exclusive to have dumb misguided employees at PP and a smear campaign by Lila Rose and those of her ilk.

You’re assuming the worst about PP while admitting you haven’t even seen the full videos or all the other evidence. Weak stuff.

I am NOT assuming the worst about PP. I don’t know why you would say that. I don’t even think I have said anything about PP. I have been talking about the people on the videos.

You haven’t seen all the videos yet. I am only judging based on what I have seen. My point is that to characterize all of the videos as “fakes”, or “hoaxes” is premature at best. And probably just made up.

15 palomino  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:35:13pm

re: #14 Buck

I am only judging based on what I have seen. My point is that to characterize all of the videos as “fakes”, or “hoaxes” is premature at best. And probably just made up.

Isn’t it also premature to assume that the videos are legit, given the history of the people involved with producing them. Live Action, the creator of these videos, hired an actor to play a role in hopes of discrediting PP. That doesn’t strike you as a bit fishy?

16 Buck  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:40:07pm

re: #13 palomino

Maybe you could explain how Charles (and those of us who agree with him on this issue) are haters. It’s a strong charge; back it up, Buck.

I think there is a more civilized way of saying the things that Charles says in #5. He can say anything he wants clearly, but I disagree with his assumptions and tone in this case. You can all jump to the conclusion that these videos are meant to bring down Planned Parenthood, or you can see the wrongdoing they expose and work towards fixing that.

I have said multiple times, I do not think this is about stopping abortions for all. I just think that for something as important as this, people should take the responsibility they are given seriously.

17 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:45:22pm

re: #16 Buck

What wrongdoing do they expose, Buck?

Oh right, you can’t see my questions, because, pathetically, you use some sort of software to ignore what I say.

18 Interesting Times  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:47:46pm

re: #14 Buck

I think you need to step away from your tribe for a minute and try and see this.

Image: bwahaha.jpg

19 Buck  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:51:00pm

re: #15 palomino

Isn’t it also premature to assume that the videos are legit, given the history of the people involved with producing them. Live Action, the creator of these videos, hired an actor to play a role in hopes of discrediting PP. That doesn’t strike you as a bit fishy?

Have you watched the videos?

The videos are available in full unedited form. This person does not have the ability to CGI live action in order to make people say things they are not saying.

I go back to this. If the people came out of the office and just reported what they saw, everyone would be saying that they don’t believe them. That they can’t be taken at their word. Well they video taped everything that happened, and present it. You still want to doubt it. Let us face facts, for some people there is NOTHING that can be done to convince them.

When you watch that first video, do you really see signs of a hoax? Do you really see fakery? Or do you see what the management at Planned Parenthood saw, “repugnant.” behavior.

I see a person inappropriately coaching a person she thinks is a child abusing rapist on how to lie to obtain services. Is that actually illegal? Maybe not. However it is wrong. In my opinion and in the opinion of the management of her workplace. I don’t see a hoax, or a fake.

20 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:53:05pm

re: #19 Buck

Yes. And that one person got fired. Perhaps appropriately, perhaps not.

What does that have to do with the general attack on Planned Parenthood?

21 palomino  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:02:51pm

re: #16 Buck

I think there is a more civilized way of saying the things that Charles says in #5. He can say anything he wants clearly, but I disagree with his assumptions and tone in this case. You can all jump to the conclusion that these videos are meant to bring down Planned Parenthood, or you can see the wrongdoing they expose and work towards fixing that.

I have said multiple times, I do not think this is about stopping abortions for all. I just think that for something as important as this, people should take the responsibility they are given seriously.

Clearly these vids were meant to do as much damage as possible to PP. Consider both the agenda of the producers and the use of hidden cameras. Nothing good faith or legit about that. Indeed the script is so similar that it’s hard to imagine that the ACORN hit piece was not motivation.

22 palomino  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:09:03pm

re: #19 Buck

You’re missing the big picture. Yes, some employees behaved badly. But Live Action wants to destroy PP’s rep despite all the great work they do. Simply because they promote family planning. So the Live Action approach is dishonest and determined by it’s extreme agenda.

23 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:10:46pm

re: #22 palomino

at the moment, one single employee behaved badly. Apparently.

24 Buck  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:16:24pm

re: #22 palomino

You’re missing the big picture. Yes, some employees behaved badly. But Live Action wants to destroy PP’s rep despite all the great work they do. Simply because they promote family planning. So the Live Action approach is dishonest and determined by it’s extreme agenda.

No you are missing the point I am making. Using the words HOAX and FAKE is simply wrong if you agree that the employee behaved badly.

All you have to do is stick to that, and not make this about something it is clearly not. It is about employees behaving badly. If they are telling the truth, and they behave badly 2-3 times a week, then that is something that should be investigated. If 15 or more offices have employees that behave badly, then that should be investigated.

When you immediately come out and call the videos fakes and a hoax, then you allow the bad behaving employees to continue their bad behavior.

THAT sums up the point I am trying to make. NOT that PP is a bad organization, or that no woman should be able to choose. Not that this Lily person should be thought of as correct in EVERY thing she has said before or even after. Only that she went out and documented bad behavior in THIS CASE.

25 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:17:14pm

re: #24 Buck

You’re lying, Buck. At the moment, it is about one employee apparently behaving badly.

Why do you always have to lie?

26 Buck  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:39:06pm

re: #21 palomino

Clearly these vids were meant to do as much damage as possible to PP. Consider both the agenda of the producers and the use of hidden cameras. Nothing good faith or legit about that. Indeed the script is so similar that it’s hard to imagine that the ACORN hit piece was not motivation.

Well I guess you are motivated to see further along into a great conspiracy than I am. Unfortunately I THINK that while you are protecting something that is NOT yet actually being attacked (the right to choose), it looks like you are defending what ius actually being attacked RIGHT NOW, the sexual abuse and prostitution of minors.

When someone says these videos are proof that women should NOT have the right to choose… I will be right there to correct them with you.

27 palomino  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:49:13pm

re: #16 Buck

I think there is a more civilized way of saying the things that Charles says in #5. He can say anything he wants clearly, but I disagree with his assumptions and tone in this case. You can all jump to the conclusion that these videos are meant to bring down Planned Parenthood, or you can see the wrongdoing they expose and work towards fixing that.

I have said multiple times, I do not think this is about stopping abortions for all. I just think that for something as important as this, people should take the responsibility they are given seriously.

If all you want is a more civilized tone from Charles, I’d suggest you not call him a hater. That’s not really very civil itself.

28 palomino  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:59:34pm

re: #24 Buck

Correct me if I’m wrong but LA used hidden cameras and paid actors in their allegedly aboveboard documentation, as you refer to it. as you say, bad employees should be disciplined, and one has been fired. But you speak in the plural; how many other employees are dirty, or are you just making assumptions?

You’ve got me confused with someone else. I never said these vids were a hoax. I said it was shoddy smear minded hit piece journalism. LA’s purpose was not to get PP to be more responsible, but merely to damage/destroy an imperfect but truly valuable organization.

29 palomino  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:12:39pm

re: #26 Buck

Well I guess you are motivated to see further along into a great conspiracy than I am. Unfortunately I THINK that while you are protecting something that is NOT yet actually being attacked (the right to choose), it looks like you are defending what ius actually being attacked RIGHT NOW, the sexual abuse and prostitution of minors.

When someone says these videos are proof that women should NOT have the right to choose… I will be right there to correct them with you.

It’s not a conspiracy. It’s a cheap agenda driven stunt by a group that hates PP.

Why would you think that Live Action’s actions aren’t meant to stop the right to choose? It’s the LA’s raison d’être.

30 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 5:43:05pm

re: #10 Buck

And how would you explain that the one Planned Parenthood employee was fired?

That they were taken in by these fake videos, and should not have fired her?

Or do you think they found real wrongdoing, and chose to not have her working for them anymore?

False dichotomy. They could have fired her because she didn’t follow their guidelines, yet didn’t break any specific laws.

re: #26 Buck

Unfortunately I THINK that while you are protecting something that is NOT yet actually being attacked (the right to choose),

What planet are you living on? Is your last name Rogers?

31 theheat  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 6:46:47pm

re: #30 prononymous

What planet are you living on? Is your last name Rogers?

Priceless.


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