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1 Vambo  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 7:50:30am

Interesting... but then again, don't Jews, lesbians/gays and Caucasians outnumber Muslims in the US anyway?

2 Lidane  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 7:56:59am

Does the rarity of a particular crime somehow make that crime acceptable?

I'm not understanding the point here.

3 captdiggs  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 10:43:16am

re: #2 Lidane

The point would be that the hysteria about "islamophobia" is way overblown.

4 Gus  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:11:36pm

This has become a Pam Geller talking point. Islamophobia doesn't necessarily have to correlate with a rise in hate crime. If you don't think there's been a noticeable rise in Islamophobia then you're in serious denial.

5 captdiggs  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:13:23pm

re: #4 Gus 802

"Islamophobia" is now a left wing talking point.
It's almost become a phobia of its own.
Those FBI statistics speak volumes, particularly the "decline" in hate crimes against muslims. Disregarding those facts as a "Pam Geller talking point" is serious denial in itself.

6 Gus  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:25:10pm

re: #5 captdiggs

"Islamophobia" is now a left wing talking point.
It's almost become a phobia of its own.
Those FBI statistics speak volumes, particularly the "decline" in hate crimes against muslims. Disregarding those facts as a "Pam Geller talking point" is serious denial in itself.

You, Pam Geller, and others are trying to put this within the context of the recent flare up over Cordoba House. The fact remains that anti-Muslim sentiment is at an all time high right now. This began in 2010. You, and others, are trying to come to a conclusion based on data from 2008.

7 Vambo  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:25:19pm

re: #5 captdiggs


Those FBI statistics speak volumes particularly the "decline" in hate crimes against muslims.

uh. no it doesn't.

For one, it could be that Muslims are simply being more discrete/secretive due to the wave of anti-Muslim violence after 2001.

A person asking someone "ARE YOU MUSLIM??" and then committing a crime against that person -- yeah, that's totally not Islamophobia by definition at all, it's just the looney left blowing things out of proportion. ///

8 Vambo  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:28:19pm

re: #6 Gus 802

You, and others, are trying to come to a conclusion based on data from 2008.

Well thank you, I didn't even catch that... the latest statistics from that article are indeed from 2008.

Nice of them to post such an article this week in light of everything that's been going. Nope, no agenda there at all. /

9 Gus  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:33:19pm

re: #8 Vambo

Well thank you, I didn't even catch that... the latest statistics from that article are indeed from 2008.

Nice of them to post such an article this week in light of everything that's been going. Nope, no agenda there at all. /

Exactly. The 2008 data didn't even come out until late 2009. We don't even have the data and report for 2009. It will be late, sometimes around December, 2011 before we see the hate crime report for 2010. It should be interesting given the recent rise in Islamophobia and anti-Mosque paranoia we are seeing today.

10 Gus  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:34:13pm

Hey, Captdiggs. Sorry about your buddies from the EDL having their protest all busted up today. Must really hurt.

/

11 captdiggs  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:36:18pm

re: #6 Gus 802

The fact remains that anti-Muslim sentiment is at an all time high right now.

Do you have any way of proving that?.
I would have thought that such "sentiment" was probably higher in late 2001.
The statistics are the latest released by the FBI.

And what will you do if the 2010 statistics show the same as 2008?

12 Vambo  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:38:45pm

re: #11 captdiggs


And what will you do if the 2010 statistics show the same as 2008?

I don't speak for Gus, but I'd probably send you some chocolates and a Hallmark card, if it makes you feel better.

13 Gus  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:39:19pm

re: #11 captdiggs

Do you have any way of proving that?.
I would have thought that such "sentiment" was probably higher in late 2001.
The statistics are the latest released by the FBI.

And what will you do if the 2010 statistics show the same as 2008?

No. It's not an all time high right now. Everything we've been seeing is just in our imagination and clearly a result of the left wing media fabricating something that's not there. Yep, that must be it.

14 captdiggs  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:41:18pm

re: #10 Gus 802

Hey, Captdiggs. Sorry about your buddies from the EDL having their protest all busted up today. Must really hurt.

/


Juvenile BS.
It goes to show how irrational this has become.

15 Gus  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:44:26pm

re: #14 captdiggs

Juvenile BS.
It goes to show how irrational this has become.

What's juvenile is trying to use statistics from 2008 to make a point about what's going on this year in 2010. That is also highly irrational and highly illogical.

16 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 1:49:44pm

What a coincidence that Pamela Geller happened to link to this very same article.

17 CuriousLurker  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 3:07:21pm

If the Islamophobia is simply a hysterical left-wing talking point that's been blown out of proportion, then I'm sure the folks claiming such won't mind volunteering to temporarily modify their appearance so they'll "look Muslim", and then walking unescorted through the next anti-Park51 protest to prove their point.

Any takers?

18 b_Snark  Sat, Aug 28, 2010 3:35:30pm

Logic fail.

Islamophobia, is a state of mind that may or may not be expressed in criminal action. Islamophobia can increase without hate crimes increasing, simply because the verbal expression of a phobia is not considered a hate crime. A hate crime is a narrowly defined specific action, a phobia is a general fear or hate. The relationship is not purely bi-directional. An increase in hate crimes would imply an increase in Islamophobia, because the action is dependant on the mind set, it is sufficient and necessary, but an increase in mind set does not imply an increase in action, because it is sufficient but not necessary.

There can also be a lag between an increase in the mind set and an increase in actions influenced by that mind set.

The correlation between Islamophobia and hate crimes against Muslims is more complex than the simple direct correlation implied by your post.

19 Randall Gross  Sun, Aug 29, 2010 4:43:46am

This is a meaningless statement of statistics unless it's normed by another factor like actual population size. Nothing in the article does that. There are more than two reasons why this number could be low while Islamophobia runs high, but the most obvious problem starts with the fact that the muslim population of the US is pretty low in most areas compared to the other groups mentioned.
There are many more gay bars, synagogues, and mostly white churches spread across the country than there are mosques. To have hate crimes you need opportunities for them and the target population of Islamophobia is quite low. The population of muslims overtly displaying symbols of their faith is lower still.

20 Randall Gross  Sun, Aug 29, 2010 4:51:35am

You have to question why people need to provide cover for neo nazis and neo confederates -- which smart money says American Nationalist Brotherhood is :


Over the past week, a brick was thrown toward a window and several signs were left at the center north of town. One sign said "No temple for the god of terrorism," while another said "Wake up America, the enemy is here." The signs included a reference to a supposed organization called the American Nationalist Brotherhood.

What's more evil: the small bands of white supremacists harnessing the latest political hate, or those granting them cover?


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