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1 Political Atheist  Mon, Jul 11, 2011 12:00:24pm

You have the basic facts right but you characterization of the key players is a little paranoid. Other explanations abound, all over the left and right blogs. Many make a decent cases for their point of view.

2 windsagio  Mon, Jul 11, 2011 1:22:15pm

You're better than the usual page warrior, being entertainingly fucking insane.

3 mikiesmoky2  Mon, Jul 11, 2011 1:57:35pm

re: #2 windsagio

You're better than the usual page warrior, being entertainingly fucking insane.

Your mother must be very proud of your great perspective and perception.

Do you think you possess the intellectual capacity to pick one of my comments with which you disagree and offer a reasonable rationale for your disagreement?

My guess is that you are not capable or you would have made me look like I don't know the subject.

Come on, now. Gather the intestinal fortitude and give it the old grammar-school try.

Have fun.....

mz

4 mikiesmoky2  Mon, Jul 11, 2011 2:02:07pm

re: #1 Rightwingconspirator

You have the basic facts right but you characterization of the key players is a little paranoid. Other explanations abound, all over the left and right blogs. Many make a decent cases for their point of view.

I will appreciate something a wee bit more definitive.

Pick any comment and offer your thoughts.
Please explain why you perceive that I am paranoid? lol

mz

5 Political Atheist  Mon, Jul 11, 2011 2:03:39pm

I must say the idea the GOP and Dems are conspiring to bring any of this about is just way down the list of possible explanations for current events. It's one of those "big claims require big evidence" kind of things.

6 Political Atheist  Mon, Jul 11, 2011 2:04:09pm

re: #4 mikiesmoky2

Not saying you are a paranoid person, just saying the post strikes me that way.

7 mikiesmoky2  Mon, Jul 11, 2011 2:55:39pm

re: #5 Rightwingconspirator

I must say the idea the GOP and Dems are conspiring to bring any of this about is just way down the list of possible explanations for current events. It's one of those "big claims require big evidence" kind of things.

Perhaps you do not agree with my underlying premise, i.e., our leaders have constituents and they have clients, and these groupings are not congruous.

Since 1981, Congress, which is composed of Democrats and Republicans, has legislated a massive shift of wealth from the middle-class to the top 0.1%, with only one bump in the road in 1993.

But the shift from 1981 to 2000 was not sufficient.

President Bush had two major goals: continue the shift of wealth and attack Iraq (see PNAC, Project for the New American Century).
Although he should be considered as the worst and most damaging president, by far...., he was extremely successful in accomplishing his goals.

On January 25, 2001, Alan Greenspan testified before the Senate's Committee on the Budget and said that he had a great concern as to what we would do with the projected "burgeoning" surpluses once we paid off the national debt. He further suggested it would be good to minimize these surpluses not through additional spending, but through tax cuts. He lobbed a softball for Bush to accomplish his task. And Congress, composed of both Democrats and Republicans, went along. Did anyone raise his or her hand and ask if SS was actuarially sound, if the Medicare program was sound, if Medicaid had financial problems?? Nah! Hmmmm...., no Republican, no Democrat.

His testimony was misleading, at best.

About a month ago, on Meet The Press, he said he was scared and that we should go back to the Clinton era tax rates.

mz

8 mikiesmoky2  Mon, Jul 11, 2011 3:00:35pm

re: #6 Rightwingconspirator

Not saying you are a paranoid person, just saying the post strikes me that way.

My friend, I cannot tell you what to think or how to think.
You know that I offer what I believe.

Please pick any comment within the post that you believe to be confusing, inaccurate, or ???? and offer your reasons for your perception.

mz

9 Political Atheist  Mon, Jul 11, 2011 4:10:22pm

Regarding-An excellent example of this complicity is agreeing with the Republicans that Social Security must be addressed because of our massive annual federal deficits.

My conclusion is that Obama put S/S on the table as a negotiating ploy to draw the Republicans out, and then show them up as disingenuous.

10 mikiesmoky2  Mon, Jul 11, 2011 4:23:14pm

re: #9 Rightwingconspirator

Regarding-An excellent example of this complicity is agreeing with the Republicans that Social Security must be addressed because of our massive annual federal deficits.

My conclusion is that Obama put S/S on the table as a negotiating ploy to draw the Republicans out, and then show them up as disingenuous.

You are saying that President was disingenuous with the Republicans to lure them into a discussion about cutting SS BECAUSE of the federal deficit, and then to point out that SS has, absolutely, nothing to do with the federal budget?

In other words, he used the tools of "lying" and "chess"?

What is that is not what he was doing?
Do you have another scenario as to why he offered to put SS on the table?

mz

11 mikiesmoky2  Mon, Jul 11, 2011 4:25:18pm

re: #10 mikiesmoky2

REGARDING: What is that is not what he was doing?

This should read: What IF that is not what he was doing?

12 Political Atheist  Mon, Jul 11, 2011 5:50:16pm

re: #10 mikiesmoky2

You are saying that President was disingenuous with the Republicans to lure them into a discussion about cutting SS BECAUSE of the federal deficit, and then to point out that SS has, absolutely, nothing to do with the federal budget?

In other words, he used the tools of "lying" and "chess"?

That's about it. Fixed to reflect my intent.

13 mikiesmoky2  Mon, Jul 11, 2011 5:58:17pm

re: #12 Rightwingconspirator

That's about it. Fixed to reflect my intent.

Adjusting to create a facade is disingenuous.

And..., you didn't answer my question:

What if that is not what he was doing, i.e., he was not lying, he was not playing chess..., he was putting SS in the mix?

Thank you,

mz

14 Political Atheist  Mon, Jul 11, 2011 7:53:42pm

re: #13 mikiesmoky2

Not to create a facade, I struck out the parts that diverged from my intent. "What if" is of course the basis for all science fiction. "What if aliens land".

In that spirit I can answer. He may well have put SS into the mix to rouse his own base. That would give him the basis to renege on the offer.

15 Political Atheist  Mon, Jul 11, 2011 7:56:59pm

re: #13 mikiesmoky2

I am saying that President was disingenuous with the Republicans to lure them into a discussion on the federal deficit.

16 mikiesmoky2  Mon, Jul 11, 2011 8:30:24pm

re: #14 Rightwingconspirator

Not to create a facade, I struck out the parts that diverged from my intent. "What if" is of course the basis for all science fiction. "What if aliens land".

In that spirit I can answer. He may well have put SS into the mix to rouse his own base. That would give him the basis to renege on the offer.

I don't understand why you cannot answer the question.
What if it was his intent to offer SS for "discussion" other than how you have theorized?

mz

17 mikiesmoky2  Mon, Jul 11, 2011 8:32:58pm

re: #15 Rightwingconspirator

I am saying that President was disingenuous with the Republicans to lure them into a discussion on the federal deficit.

If it were I who was stating your "position", I would have said that "President Obama may have been disingenuous.....". Neither of us knows what was in his mind.

I hope you answer the question, finally.

mz

18 Political Atheist  Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:57:41am

re: #17 mikiesmoky2

If it were I who was stating your "position", I would have said that "President Obama may have been disingenuous...". Neither of us knows what was in his mind.

I hope you answer the question, finally.
mz


See I use the language as the average person/blogger does. I do not have the necessity to specify like that with anyone else. I'm not claiming special knowledge.

What if his intent was other than my impression? Maybe it is exactly what his base says. (See Daily Kos) Maybe his intent is exactly as his GOP critics say... (See Fox News) What is the point of this question?

19 mikiesmoky2  Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:24:06am

re: #18 Rightwingconspirator

See I use the language as the average person/blogger does. I do not have the necessity to specify like that with anyone else. I'm not claiming special knowledge.

What if his intent was other than my impression? Maybe it is exactly what his base says. (See Daily Kos) Maybe his intent is exactly as his GOP critics say... (See Fox News) What is the point of this question?

This is the 3rd time I have asked you to answer the question.

Can you answer a simple and direct question?

Assuming he wasn't playing chess or any other game, what would you think of his offering SS for discussion REGARDING the federal budget deficit? We all know that SS needs adjustment, but that has no effect upon the federal budget.

mz

20 Political Atheist  Tue, Jul 12, 2011 4:14:15pm

re: #19 mikiesmoky2

LOL
S/S may not be a part of the budget deficit, but as we learned today the budget can have a huge impact on SS. I can no longer see these things as separate. They are connected by events far too closely. The trust fund is a broken trust. They spent the money.

21 mikiesmoky2  Tue, Jul 12, 2011 5:02:03pm

re: #20 Rightwingconspirator

REGARDING: S/S may not be a part of the budget deficit, but as we learned today the budget can have a huge impact on SS.
RESPONSE: That sounds like you used the same "writer" as Bush when he said, "Although Iraq didn't have anything to do with 9/11, because of 9/11, we must invade Iraq".
IMPECCABLE LOGIC.

REGARDING: I can no longer see these things as separate.
RESPONSE: I suggest that you visit the optometry section of a Sears store.

REGARDING: They are connected by events far too closely.
RESPONSE: Making a statement does not lend validity to that statement. Can you provide your rationale for your "thoughts"?

REGARDING: The trust fund is a broken trust.
RESPONSE: As I have said, many times, the SS Trust fund has NEVER been actuarially sound. It can be fixed, but that would violate the desires of the TOP 0.1% of recipients of money and other wealth, thus their employees (Congress) would be provided specific instructions that would truncate or, at least, mitigate any equitable and pragmatics fixes.

REGARDING: They spent the money.
RESPONSE: They spent the money? What money did they spend?
Be careful, be very, very careful.
HINT: Investing is not spending.

Since English is my second language, I hope you understand my comments.

mz

22 Political Atheist  Tue, Jul 12, 2011 7:42:42pm

re: #21 mikiesmoky2

Okay on one hand I have your insistence about what all these facts mean. On the other hand I have numerous assurances that yes, indeed SS checks are imperiled by a default. I believe that.

Right or wrong I have read and read your points. I read elsewhere. I listened to our President and some of his administrations pronouncements. I also hope that it will not come to that and reality does not tech us who is correct.

At this point the appropriate amount of time for me to spend on this topic is as overspent as this years revenues for the non ss budget. I'll be moving on to things that I can effect, or that effect me directly.


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