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1 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Nov 20, 2011 3:18:31pm
One thing he makes very clear is that the Securitzation Products we hear so much about are not going away and are essential if we are going to have a vibrant economy in our Brave New World.

I call bullshit. There is no need to rely on fraud for a vibrant economy. Though I will admit that fraudulent activity can give birth to bubbles that will temporarily "speed up" an economy… but payback is always going to be hell.

2 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 20, 2011 4:59:36pm

re: #1 000G

I call bullshit. There is no need to rely on fraud for a vibrant economy. Though I will admit that fraudulent activity can give birth to bubbles that will temporarily "speed up" an economy… but payback is always going to be hell.

Securitzation et. al. are not fraudulent. How they are bought, sold, mis-rated, uninsured and unregulated may lead them to be used in a fraudulent manner.

Mostly, IMHO, their "theoretical" nature defies any simple understanding and they should not be traded by those not educated to do so.

3 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Nov 20, 2011 11:53:53pm

re: #2 ggt

Securitzation et. al. are not fraudulent.

How are they not? We are talking about ABS etc., right?

4 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Nov 21, 2011 5:04:13am

re: #3 000G

How are they not? We are talking about ABS etc., right?

Perhaps you should explain to me why you think they are fraudulent. I don't get it.

5 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Nov 22, 2011 11:04:40pm

re: #4 ggt

Perhaps you should explain to me why you think they are fraudulent. I don't get it.

How little is understood of "our own economy" became chillingly clear when the international banking system dropped into a heavy liquidity crisis in July 2007. The crisis led to lender-of-last-resort operations, in the second week of August, of the Eurosystem, the Federal Reserve System, the Bank of Japan, and other large central banks at an amount of some U.S.$ 400 billion. The trigger of the crisis, resulting in losses esitmated at more than U.S.$ 2 trillion worldwide, was the foreclosure of some 480,000 so-called subprime mortgages (loans to low-income house owners with no capital) at an average value of $ 200,000 from January 2006 to the end of July 2007; that is, only $ 10 billion were lost by lenders in the housing sector. How could such a minor loss – compared to the U.S.-household net worth of $ 53 trillion – shake global money markets?
The prime reason was neglect of the usual security and covenants for lending to house owners. In a crisis, when credit contracts may have to be enforced, it becomes evident that nothing is more vital than first-class collateral and sufficient own capital. It forms the basis for the soundness of the economy.
The second reason was, of course, the quick global distribution of America's low-security debt in the form of asset-backed securities (ABS), collateralised debt obligations (CDOs), and collateralised loan obligations (CLOs). These instruments do not deserve the term "collateral" in their names. Yet, insufficiently collateralised debt obligations (ICDOs) would not have been an easy sell. Altogether, some 6 million subprime loans at an approximate combined value of $ 1.2 trillion that are insufficiently collateralised, are spread all over the globe. Since the buyers cannot know how many potential foreclosures they have added to their portfolios, the mere fear of sitting on unsecured debt is wreaking havoc. Although it is reasonable to assume that only a small fraction of the $ 1.2 trillion debt will go into default, that insight does not provide much help for individual buyers. All of them have to turn into sellers, in order to evade the fate of that small fraction approaching extinction.
Thus, to allow low-collateral credit within the U.S., as the strongest plkayer in the international financial net, means poisoning the system globally. How fiercely prime collateral, like Government bonds, that could still be offered to create fresh money is withheld in crises became obvious when even the Federal Reserve was hampered in its lender-pf-last-resort attempts by the lack of good security offered by commercial banks. To save them, the Fed had to endanger its own capital by accepting as eligible collateral their very subprime assets that had caused the trouble in the first place.

Gunnar Heinsohn and Otto Steiger: "Collateral and Own Capital", in Otto Steiger (ed.): Property Economics – Property Rights, Creditor's Money and the Foundations of the Economy, metropolis 2008, p 216f.


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