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1 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 3:45:50am

The government is shut down because Boehner won’t bring a clean— hell, not even clean, a sequestered CR to the floor.

That is the one and only reason.

2 francis  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 5:44:54am

re: #1 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

It is all about the money and they are using the ACA as a wedge and for good reason, it is a flawed program and does not delivered what is promised.

3 jamesfirecat  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 5:48:10am

“You sold the democrats and America on the ACA because it would provide coverage for everyone”


Franics, please find me proof of Obama ever saying that the ACA would cover everyone,

4 Sionainn  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 7:05:28am

re: #3 jamesfirecat

“You sold the democrats and America on the ACA because it would provide coverage for everyone”

Franics, please find me proof of Obama ever saying that the ACA would cover everyone,

Obama didn’t. ACA never claimed that everyone would be covered. If we had single payer, everyone would be covered.

Once again, Francis posts a letter with no basis in reality and makes himself look like an idiot. I’ve lost any respect I ever had for him because he is being willfully ignorant (and that’s the nicest thing I can say right now).

5 francis  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 7:09:01am

re: #3 jamesfirecat

I seem to remember him saying “affordable health care for everyone’, on more than several occasions during his first term. He also stated everyone could keep their insurance and doctors and that isn’t true also.

I don’t understand his objection to fixing the bill or having it a part of the negotiations. Something good could come out of it for either side. Once Jan 1st passes, it will be almost impossible to get rid of the bill. Why do you think the republicans are pushing so hard. It is the most unfair piece of legislation I have seen passed in a long time. The poor are not covered in every state and the black population is suffering the most again. What is so great about the ACA other than the government is making people more dependent on the government. They have given corporation a way out of covering people with health care and increased their profits. Why do you think the unions are angry, they finally woke up and see it for what it is.

6 Sionainn  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 7:16:56am

re: #5 francis

I seem to remember him saying “affordable health care for everyone’, on more than several occasions during his first term. He also stated everyone could keep their insurance and doctors and that isn’t true also.

I don’t understand his objection to fixing the bill or having it a part of the negotiations. Something good could come out of it for either side. Once Jan 1st passes, it will be almost impossible to get rid of the bill. Why do you think the republicans are pushing so hard. It is the most unfair piece of legislation I have seen passed in a long time. The poor are not covered in every state and the black population is suffering the most again. What is so great about the ACA other than the government is making people more dependent on the government. They have given corporation a way out of covering people with health care and increased their profits. Why do you think the unions are angry, they finally woke up and see it for what it is.

Oh, bullshit, Francis. It is NOT the most “unfair piece of legislation.” The ACA looks the way it does because Democrats compromised with Republicans in order to get it passed. They put in the stuff the GOP insisted on, took out things that shouldn’t have been taken out, all in effort to appease Republicans and get them to agree to a vote. After doing all that, the GOP refused to vote for the very things they insisted upon.

Oh, and if you are so very concerned about people becoming dependent on the government, I highly suggest you give up your Medicare, Social Security, and whatever other benefits you get from the government.

7 jamesfirecat  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 7:23:21am

re: #5 francis

I seem to remember him saying “affordable health care for everyone’, on more than several occasions during his first term. He also stated everyone could keep their insurance and doctors and that isn’t true also.

I don’t understand his objection to fixing the bill or having it a part of the negotiations. Something good could come out of it for either side. Once Jan 1st passes, it will be almost impossible to get rid of the bill. Why do you think the republicans are pushing so hard. It is the most unfair piece of legislation I have seen passed in a long time. The poor are not covered in every state and the black population is suffering the most again. What is so great about the ACA other than the government is making people more dependent on the government. They have given corporation a way out of covering people with health care and increased their profits. Why do you think the unions are angry, they finally woke up and see it for what it is.

The plural of anecdote is not data.


Find me a link to him saying it.

I do not trust your memory alone after the way that you got suckered by that “Jefferson” quote.

8 francis  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 7:24:21am

re: #4 Sionainn

You obviously didn’t listen to his speeches. Affordable health care for every one. What does everyone mean? You and some of your other contributors call me ignorant and maybe I don’t support what I say with some post, but try this on for size.

44 million people on food stamps
Over a trillion dollars wasted on tow wars
Poor people getting poorer
children getting gunned down in schools
Over 7% unemployment and the real figure is higher
Mega waste and fraud in government
Billion given in aid to other countries that pilfer the money
17 trillion dollars in debt, more than the gross national product
The ACA that doesn’t treat people all the same
and the list can go on forever, I may be ignorant according to you, but I don’t need to be super intelligent or need to back up everything I say or write when it comes to obvious problems.

You want to know what ignorant is, intelligent people that don’t use their intelligence other than to insult other people. Take your documented intelligence and use it to find some common sense.

9 francis  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 7:27:31am

re: #6 Sionainn

It is always some one else tat is at fault. The democrats had the votes so why should they have compromised on anything. The reason is because some of the democrats knew the bill was flawed. Stop blaming the GOP, you sound like Obama.

10 Sionainn  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 7:29:28am

re: #8 francis

You obviously didn’t listen to his speeches. Affordable health care for every one. What does everyone mean? You and some of your other contributors call me ignorant and maybe I don’t support what I say with some post, but try this on for size.

44 million people on food stamps
Over a trillion dollars wasted on tow wars
Poor people getting poorer
children getting gunned down in schools
Over 7% unemployment and the real figure is higher
Mega waste and fraud in government
Billion given in aid to other countries that pilfer the money
17 trillion dollars in debt, more than the gross national product
The ACA that doesn’t treat people all the same
and the list can go on forever, I may be ignorant according to you, but I don’t need to be super intelligent or need to back up everything I say or write when it comes to obvious problems.

You want to know what ignorant is, intelligent people that don’t use their intelligence other than to insult other people. Take your documented intelligence and use it to find some common sense.

Francis, I listened to his speeches, read the news, paid attention to the propaganda being put out by the RWNJs about the ACA, and spent a lot of time researching the facts.

As to the rest, we are talking about the ACA. Perhaps that’s your problem…you have a superficial understanding about things because you jump around from one concern to another and never get a chance to learn anything in-depth nor do you get a chance to think things through. Common sense, my ass.

11 Sionainn  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 7:30:53am

re: #9 francis

It is always some one else tat is at fault. The democrats had the votes so why should they have compromised on anything. The reason is because some of the democrats knew the bill was flawed. Stop blaming the GOP, you sound like Obama.

It’s not blame. It’s the fact of what happened.

As to insulting you, dammnit, you ask for it with every stupid thing you post. You don’t bother reading any links that anyone else posts, showing that you are wrong. You are the one who needs to open his eyes and get a clue.

12 francis  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 7:31:08am

re: #7 jamesfirecat

What is the point of sending you data if it isn’t from one of your chosen sites. You are right about Jefferson, but what matters the most is the statement is true and makes common sense. Get off the data train and think for yourself.

13 jamesfirecat  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 7:31:56am

re: #12 francis

What is the point of sending you data if it isn’t from one of your chosen sites. You are right about Jefferson, but what matters the most is the statement is true and makes common sense. Get off the data train and think for yourself.

I have never refused to read an artical just because of what site it is from.


I may argue with it/provide counter examples of what it claims from other sources, but I do not deny data simply because I find the source of it unpleasant,


Do you refuse to find me proof of your claims Franics?

14 francis  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 7:34:01am

re: #11 Sionainn

I read every thing that is posted, I’m like you, I believe what I want to believe. I would rather rely on what makes sense. The media and other sources slant everything to the viewer or reader. I like to make up my own mind.

15 francis  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 7:38:14am

re: #13 jamesfirecat

James you are a reasonable person, as I told you before I get my information from the ny times, associated press and Reuther’s. I would have to send you the entire paper because I don’t see links for the individual articles. Some site I can paste and others I can’t. The NY Times has a good article on questions about Obamacare.

16 jamesfirecat  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 7:40:28am

re: #15 francis

James you are a reasonable person, as I told you before I get my information from the ny times, associated press and Reuther’s. I would have to send you the entire paper because I don’t see links for the individual articles. Some site I can paste and others I can’t. The NY Times has a good article on questions about Obamacare.

Then paste me a link to the entire paper in question an I will search it for source of your quote.

You can find the artical you got this statement again from can’t you?

If so please tell me at least what the name of the artical is and I can go from there most likely…

17 jamesfirecat  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 7:40:54am

Ignore this post.

18 GeneJockey  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 7:44:47am

Wow, I haven’t seen so many straw men since the Scarecrow convention.

Simple facts: Obama never said it would cover everyone. It’s better than what we had before, in major ways that positively impact millions of people. It could be improved, but that’s not what Republicans are trying to do.

THEREFORE, Obama isn’t refusing to have discussions about improving it.

19 GeneJockey  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 7:45:16am

re: #17 jamesfirecat

Ignore this post.

Too late.

20 francis  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:03:49am

re: #16 jamesfirecat

James, I have a letter signed by President Obama or his pen and I will type his comment.

Second, if you are one of the tens of millions who do not have health insurance, the Affordable Care Act will finally give you the chance to buy quality, affordable care like Everyone else. Beginning on October 1, you will be able to go online, compare private insurance plans side by side, and choose the one that works best. No one will be turned away because they are sick or have a pre-existing condition, and EVERYONE will have the opportunity to enroll at healthcare.gov.

This was the second paragraph of the letter, dated September 16, 2013.
I would post the entire letter if I knew how. The letter has some great points about the ACA that have been discussed before.

21 Sionainn  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:09:42am

re: #14 francis

I read every thing that is posted, I’m like you, I believe what I want to believe. I would rather rely on what makes sense. The media and other sources slant everything to the viewer or reader. I like to make up my own mind.

Oh, no, you’re not like me. I base my beliefs on facts.

22 francis  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:09:53am

re: #18 GeneJockey

Tell me why he hasn’t tried to fix the problems in the last three years?

He lost the house so he made his own adjustments. Do you think the GOP, Uninon ans people have a gripe. They don’t like getting blackmailed either.

23 jamesfirecat  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:10:23am

re: #20 francis

James, I have a letter signed by President Obama or his pen and I will type his comment.

Second, if you are one of the tens of millions who do not have health insurance, the Affordable Care Act will finally give you the chance to buy quality, affordable care like Everyone else. Beginning on October 1, you will be able to go online, compare private insurance plans side by side, and choose the one that works best. No one will be turned away because they are sick or have a pre-existing condition, and EVERYONE will have the opportunity to enroll at healthcare.gov.

This was the second paragraph of the letter, dated September 16, 2013.
I would post the entire letter if I knew how. The letter has some great points about the ACA that have been discussed before.

I am sorry but once again you are asking me to trust you at your word alone, or in this case with a physical object that only you have access to.


This would be the equivalent of me arguing that I have a signed letter from Speaker John Boehner telling me that he has no interest in funding the federal government and insteads wants to drive it into default because he hates Liberal America.

Is it fair to expect me to just take you at your word?

Can you find me a link to speech or story of Obama saying the ACA would cover everyone?

24 francis  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:11:09am

re: #21 Sionainn

What and whose facts? When you read something do you make up your own mind or parrot the facts.

25 Sionainn  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:14:24am

re: #23 jamesfirecat

I am sorry but once again you are asking me to trust you at your word alone, or in this case with a physical object that only you have access to.

This would be the equivalent of me arguing that I have a signed letter from Speaker John Boehner telling me that he has no interest in funding the federal government and insteads wants to drive it into default because he hatesLiberal America.

Its fair to expect me to just take you at your word in an argument this important.

Can you find me Obama saying the ACA would cover everyone in any speech he has given?

Here’s the google search for that “letter.” Link

26 Sionainn  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:15:30am

re: #24 francis

What and whose facts? When you read something do you make up your own mind or parrot the facts.

Facts are facts.

27 francis  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:17:07am

re: #23 jamesfirecat

James is there a way to post this letter, I can’t believe you would even think I could make up something like this. I have over 50 letters from Obama. There are copies of apx 10 letters in my first book. Unbelievable, I am not the GOP, I am Francis.

28 GeneJockey  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:17:35am

re: #22 francis

Tell me why he hasn’t tried to fix the problems in the last three years?

He lost the house so he made his own adjustments. Do you think the GOP, Uninon ans people have a gripe. They don’t like getting blackmailed either.

Which “problems” would those be?

The ACA is what could pass Congress as it was then constituted, and only just barely at that. Once the GOP took the House, it was not possible to make any adjustment, because the GOP will not accept the basic premise of the bill - that one role of government is to regulate markets for necessities for the protection of the less powerful.

That being the case, there has not been any opportunity to “fix” the “problems” you so disingenuously refer to.

29 jamesfirecat  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:17:51am

re: #25 Sionainn

Here’s the google search for that “letter.” Link

Why the quotation marks on “letter” is it not trustworthy?

30 Sionainn  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:18:54am

re: #27 francis

James is there a way to post this letter, I can’t believe you would even think I could make up something like this. I have over 50 letters from Obama. There are copies of apx 10 letters in my first book. Unbelievable, I am not the GOP, I am Francis.

I just posted the link to the letter and you apparently aren’t the only one who got it. LOL.

31 Sionainn  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:19:22am

re: #29 jamesfirecat

Why the quotation marks on “letter” is it not trustworthy?

I have no clue. It looks like it could be a form letter from the White House.

32 francis  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:20:48am

re: #25 Sionainn

That is the letter and his signature is on it and it was mailed, so what other proof do you need or does his signature mean nothing?

33 GeneJockey  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:21:39am

So, francis, you’re claiming that this:

Second, if you are one of the tens of millions who do not have health insurance, the Affordable Care Act will finally give you the chance to buy quality, affordable care like everyone else.

is promising that everyone will be covered? Sorry, chum, that’s not what it says. But thanks for playing, and be sure to pick up a copy of our home game on your way out.

34 francis  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:24:30am

re: #31 Sionainn

Most of his letter are his speeches, it didn’t take long to figure that out. Why would he authorize his signature.

35 GeneJockey  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:30:11am

Crickets.

36 Sionainn  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:30:52am

re: #32 francis

That is the letter and his signature is on it and it was mailed, so what other proof do you need or does his signature mean nothing?

I read it. “Second, if you are one of the tens of millions who do not have health insurance, the Affordable Care Act will finally give you the chance to buy quality, affordable care like everyone else. Beginning on October 1, you will be able to go online, compare private insurance plans side-by-side, and choose the one that works best. No one will be turned away because they are sick or have a pre-existing condition, and everyone will have the opportunity to enroll at HealthCare.gov.”

That does not state what you said it stated.

37 Sionainn  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:32:50am

re: #34 francis

Most of his letter are his speeches, it didn’t take long to figure that out. Why would he authorize his signature.

It probably is a form letter from the White House.

As has been pointed out to you by two different people, that letter does not state what you said it did. Why don’t you address that?

38 GeneJockey  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:32:59am

I’ve found that wingnuts think posting a link to something, even when following that link shows they’ve been misrepresenting, misquoting, or just flat out lying, is considered enough proof.

39 Sionainn  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:33:39am

re: #38 GeneJockey

I’ve found that wingnuts think posting a link to something, even when following that link shows they’ve been misrepresenting, misquoting, or just flat out lying, is considered enough proof.

Or it’s a complete lack of reading comprehension.

40 GeneJockey  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:35:57am

re: #39 Sionainn

Or it’s a complete lack of reading comprehension.

That, and confirmation bias writ large.

41 francis  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:39:33am

re: #33 GeneJockey

Just like everything else it comes down to interpretation. So what does it really say to the average American. I guess the word everyone has a different definition to the gifted people. You just can’t admit your wrong, I wonder where I saw that before.

42 francis  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:43:17am

re: #36 Sionainn

I understand the catch phrase opportunity, but that is not how the average person will understand it. Semantics.

43 GeneJockey  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:45:15am

re: #41 francis

Just like everything else it comes down to interpretation. So what does it really say to the average American.

No, it doesn’t come down to interpretation. It flat out DOES NOT SAY ‘everyone is covered’. It says if you don’t have insurance, you will have the opportunity to buy it. That is true.

I guess the word everyone has a different definition to the gifted people.

You’ve failed to produce any documentation that Obama said everyone will be covered, and the one reference you did produce doesn’t use the word ‘everyone’ is not used in the context you claim.

You just can’t admit your wrong, I wonder where I saw that before.

The last time you looked in the mirror.

44 Sionainn  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:48:46am

re: #41 francis

Just like everything else it comes down to interpretation. So what does it really say to the average American. I guess the word everyone has a different definition to the gifted people. You just can’t admit your wrong, I wonder where I saw that before.

Wrong about what?

45 Sionainn  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:51:38am

re: #42 francis

I understand the catch phrase opportunity, but that is not how the average person will understand it. Semantics.

“Catch phrase”? Puhlease. Words have specific meanings. How is it the fault of the speaker if native English speakers don’t even understand their own language? It’s not like we are talking about unusual English words and Obama (or anyone else) is talking above their level. Do we need to dumb everything down to a first grade reading level? No words larger than 4 letters long? No complex sentences?

46 jamesfirecat  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:54:41am

re: #27 francis

James is there a way to post this letter, I can’t believe you would even think I could make up something like this. I have over 50 letters from Obama. There are copies of apx 10 letters in my first book. Unbelievable, I am not the GOP, I am Francis.

Francis, I feel that if in an argument either side is allowed to cite evidence that can not be confirmed (for example if I claimed I had a letter from John Boehner and could tell you what it said) then have it taken as gospel it makes it impossible to have a logical and rational discussion.

Do you disagree?

47 francis  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 9:09:34am

re: #45 Sionainn

and I thought you knew what politics was all about, dumb.

48 GeneJockey  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 9:14:25am

And when called out on his misrepresentations, he goes abusive. No wonder he doesn’t comment on the main threads. He’d get ripped to shreds.

49 GeneJockey  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 9:14:37am

Better trolls, please.

50 CuriousLurker  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 10:09:24am

re: #26 Sionainn

Facts are facts.

See how you are? Why do you insist on parroting facts when you could be making up your own mind (i.e. ignoring and/or cherry picking according to your confirmation bias and daydreaming the rest)?

51 Sionainn  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 10:10:33am

re: #50 CuriousLurker

See how you are? Why do you insist on parroting facts when you could be making up your own mind (i.e. ignoring and/or cherry picking according to your confirmation bias and daydreaming the rest)?

Less mentally taxing to just stick with the facts. I can save my mental gymnastics for more fun things. ;-)

52 CuriousLurker  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 10:13:11am

re: #51 Sionainn

Less mentally taxing to just stick with the facts. I can save my mental gymnastics for more fun things. ;-)

Smart cookie! LOL

53 dog philosopher  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 10:22:40am

what you’re impressing everybody here with, francis, is your gullibility and lack of common sense

54 dog philosopher  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 10:29:14am

re: #20 francis

James, I have a letter signed by President Obama or his pen and I will type his comment.

Second, if you are one of the tens of millions who do not have health insurance, the Affordable Care Act will finally give you the chance to buy quality, affordable care like Everyone else. Beginning on October 1, you will be able to go online, compare private insurance plans side by side, and choose the one that works best. No one will be turned away because they are sick or have a pre-existing condition, and EVERYONE will have the opportunity to enroll at healthcare.gov.

This was the second paragraph of the letter, dated September 16, 2013.
I would post the entire letter if I knew how. The letter has some great points about the ACA that have been discussed before.

if this paragraph is a lie, francis, then tell me who the people are who don’t have insurance but won’t have a chance to sign up for it in the exchange?

55 francis  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 12:14:24pm

re: #54 dog philosopher

THERE IS ABOUT 11 MILLION OF THEM THAT ARE NOT COVERED BY MEDICAID, MEDICARE OR THE ACA NY TIMES ARTICLE GO TO BING AND IT BRINGS UP NT TIMES ASSOCIATED PRESS AND REUTHERS I DON’T LOOK AT THE REST.

56 dog philosopher  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 12:19:55pm

re: #55 francis

THERE IS ABOUT 11 MILLION OF THEM THAT ARE NOT COVERED BY MEDICAID, MEDICARE OR THE ACA NY TIMES ARTICLE GO TO BING AND IT BRINGS UP NT TIMES ASSOCIATED PRESS AND REUTHERS I DON’T LOOK AT THE REST.

again, obama never stated that everybody would receive subsidies if they couldn’t afford it, and nothing you cited shows that he did

the paragraph you cited merely says that anybody who isn’t covered elsewhere can go to the exchanges to see if they can find something cheap that they can afford there, which is certainly true. it DOES NOT SAY THAT EVERYBODY WILL RECEIVE SUBSIDIES IF THEY CAN’T AFFORD ANY PLAN

you are not connecting the facts to come to a correct conclusion here - or, to put it more plainly, you’re not thinking clearly

57 BongCrodny  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 12:24:45pm

Come back, Buck, all is forgiven!

58 dog philosopher  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 12:25:03pm

francis, this particular argument is caused by your mistaken impression that obama promised that everybody would be covered by obamacare

i have very clear memories over the past five years of many people objecting that obamacare does not cover anybody, and no memories of obama saying that it does

when asked for proof of your assertion that obama promised that everybody would be covered, you ponied up a paragraph from a letter from the white house describing, truthfully, that anybody who didn’t have insurance yet could go to the exchange site and look for some they might be able to afford there

this statement you cited does not say that everybody who cannot afford insurance will be provided with government subsidies if they cannot otherwise afford it, and indeed many people will fall through this particular crack

now get with it - obama never promised that there would be 100% coverage under obamacare and you have not proved that he did - so admit it like a man

59 dog philosopher  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 12:25:30pm

re: #57 BongCrodny

Come back, Buck, all is forgiven!

buck was an asshole but he was more clever

60 dog philosopher  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 12:29:36pm

c’mon, francis - be a man - admit that you are wrong about obama promising that everybody will be covered

61 dog philosopher  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 1:02:54pm

francis - you are really interested in obamacare, right? you write about it here everyday, right?

then read this:

15 Myths The Media Should Ignore During Obamacare Implementation

Myth #1: Congress Is “Exempt” From The Affordable Care Act

Myth #2: Premium Prices Will Increase Due To Health Care Law

Myth #3: The Affordable Care Act Includes Death Panels

Myth #4: Shutting Down Government Over Obamacare Funding Will Stop Health Care Law

Myth #5: The Affordable Care Act Is “Socialized Medicine” And A “Government Takeover” Of Health Care

Myth #6: People Will Be Able To Commit Subsidy Fraud On The Exchanges

Myth #7: Obamacare “Narrow Networks” Will Constrain Health Choices

Myth #8: The Affordable Care Act Is Bad For Women

Myth #9: The Affordable Care Act Covers Abortions

Myth #10: The Affordable Care Act Is A Job Killer

Myth #11: With Full Access To Medical Records, The IRS Will Discriminate Against Conservatives

Myth #12: Navigators Will Abuse Private Information

Myth #13: Obamacare Mandates Doctors To Ask Patients About Sexual History

Myth #14: The ACA’s Medicaid Expansion Will Force Doctors To Turn Away Patients

Myth #15: The ACA Is To Blame For A Projected 30 Million People Who Will Remain Uninsured

62 Decatur Deb  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 1:12:32pm

re: #61 dog philosopher

francis - you are really interested in obamacare, right? you write about it here everyday, right?

then read this:

15 Myths The Media Should Ignore During Obamacare Implementation

Myth #1: Congress Is “Exempt” From The Affordable Care Act

Myth #2: Premium Prices Will Increase Due To Health Care Law

Myth #3: The Affordable Care Act Includes Death Panels

Myth #4: Shutting Down Government Over Obamacare Funding Will Stop Health Care Law

Myth #5: The Affordable Care Act Is “Socialized Medicine” And A “Government Takeover” Of Health Care

Myth #6: People Will Be Able To Commit Subsidy Fraud On The Exchanges

Myth #7: Obamacare “Narrow Networks” Will Constrain Health Choices

Myth #8: The Affordable Care Act Is Bad For Women

Myth #9: The Affordable Care Act Covers Abortions

Myth #10: The Affordable Care Act Is A Job Killer

Myth #11: With Full Access To Medical Records, The IRS Will Discriminate Against Conservatives

Myth #12: Navigators Will Abuse Private Information

Myth #13: Obamacare Mandates Doctors To Ask Patients About Sexual History

Myth #14: The ACA’s Medicaid Expansion Will Force Doctors To Turn Away Patients

Myth #15: The ACA Is To Blame For A Projected 30 Million People Who Will Remain Uninsured

Quite concerned about Myth 12. It’s inevitable that some Navigator somewhere will screw up and expose the limited amount of Personal Identity Information (PII) they collect of some individual. Freep is already talking about O’Keeffe going after them with a bogus sting. If a Navigator is an employee, he is subject to firing. The training also mentions in passing a possible $25,000 fine for employees and volunteers. That would obviously only be for severe cases.

63 francis  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 2:09:57pm

re: #61 dog philosopher

Thank you for the information. I have the same concerns as Decatur Deb, but if you are going to put the information out there be willing to accept the problems that go with it. Nothing on line is safe.

Two issues I have with the ACA, the poor that will not be covered by any insurance, not even Medicaid.

The coverage you get in the state you registered, is it good if you get sick in another state. I can’t find that answer anywhere. Medicare covers you nationally. Does the ACA do the same?

64 francis  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 2:19:38pm

re: #58 dog philosopher

Dog, what do you think the average person concluded from his speeches. We are talking about the average person, not the research titans from the little footballs.

65 dog philosopher  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 2:22:17pm

re: #63 francis

Does the ACA do the same?

keep in mind that ACA does not provide any insurance directly, but merely sets rules and provides subsidies for private insurance

since all actual insurance policies will still be provided by private insurance companies, the insurance will i guess be as portable or non-portable as it ever was - in as far as i know, and i don’t claim to be an expert on the subject, ACA does not legislate any restrictions on the portability of insurance

as for non-private insurance, that is, insurance policies provided directly by the government as in medicare, the ACA provides exactly none

this should be well known since the provision of government health insurance, referred to during the passage process of ACA as “the public option”, was removed from ACA before its passage as a concession to moderate republicans in an effort to get their vote. the removal of this “public option” from ACA angered many progressives so much that thereafter they refused to support the bill

surely they must be the majority among those 10% - 20% who say in many national polls that they are against ACA because it doesn’t go far enough in socializing medical care in the united states

66 dog philosopher  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 2:23:51pm

re: #64 francis

Dog, what do you think the average person concluded from his speeches. We are talking about the average person, not the research titans from the little footballs.

i’m an ‘average person’, and i heard very clearly throughout the debate and the passage process that there would be millions of people who would fall through the cracks

if you didn’t manage to hear about this, i don’t know what to tell you

67 dog philosopher  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 2:27:17pm

i’m not a ‘research titan’, either

i have a full time job, sometimes more than full time, and also my own small business on the side that i often have to spend a few hours on when i get home from work. so, i am not blessed with an abundance of time to do research

68 Decatur Deb  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 2:56:49pm

re: #66 dog philosopher

i’m an ‘average person’, and i heard very clearly throughout the debate and the passage process that there would be millions of people who would fall through the cracks

if you didn’t manage to hear about this, i don’t know what to tell you

Many of the uninsured poor will not fall through the cracks—they were pushed through the cracks by their RW state governments that rejected the federal money to pay for expanded eligibility for Medicaid. My Governor and legislature are among them.

69 francis  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 3:02:33pm

re: #67 dog philosopher

Dog, you sound like a real hard working American to me and an informed person. Obama stated ON FRIDAY TO THE ASSOCIATED PRESS THAT HE WOULD DISCUSS HEALTH CARE, SPENDING AND THE DEFICIT SO WE WILL SEE IF BOENHER IS MAN ENOUGH TO TRUST HIM.

70 jamesfirecat  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 4:03:57pm

re: #69 francis

Dog, you sound like a real hard working American to me and an informed person. Obama stated ON FRIDAY TO THE ASSOCIATED PRESS THAT HE WOULD DISCUSS HEALTH CARE, SPENDING AND THE DEFICIT SO WE WILL SEE IF BOENHER IS MAN ENOUGH TO TRUST HIM.

No need to shout.

71 palomino  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 4:31:14pm

So if it only provides coverage to millions of extra people, but not ALL of them then the bill sucks and should be junked?

Every major piece of legislation (think Social Security, Medicare, etc) had flaws in the beginning. Which is why Congress fixed them and continues to as new problems crop up.

Your notion that the Dems could have pushed through single payer is ludicrous. There’s never been much support from red state Dems for programs like “socialized medicine” that have been demonized for decades as “socialist” and “radical” and “one step towards totalitarianism.” It just wasn’t gonna happen. America’s barely ready for Obamacare, what makes you think they’re ready for a more ambitious program like single payer?

I don’t mean to be rude, but your thinking on this is overly simplistic and naive. And your knowledge of the issues is a bit sketchy.

72 palomino  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 5:30:43pm

re: #69 francis

Dog, you sound like a real hard working American to me and an informed person. Obama stated ON FRIDAY TO THE ASSOCIATED PRESS THAT HE WOULD DISCUSS HEALTH CARE, SPENDING AND THE DEFICIT SO WE WILL SEE IF BOENHER IS MAN ENOUGH TO TRUST HIM.

Obama said he would discuss those issues, but he will not negotiate on them until AFTER Congress ends the shutdown and raises the debt ceiling.

73 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Oct 6, 2013 5:16:52am

re: #69 francis

Using all caps is rude as fuck, don’t do it you weirdo.


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