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1 ThatPirateGuy  Sat, Dec 28, 2013 9:22:59am

I watched an old Jon Stewart Fox News take down about that on youtube today. Watching that without his commentary makes my eyes just widen in shock and I’m not laughing anymore.

2 CuriousLurker  Sat, Dec 28, 2013 9:49:01am

There’s no such thing as Islamophobia. //

The term “Islamophobia” is now being used as a kind of intellectual blood libel to protect intrinsically harmful ideas from criticism.
Sam Harris

3 Varek Raith  Sat, Dec 28, 2013 11:41:31am

re: #2 CuriousLurker

There’s no such thing as Islamophobia. //

Man, he’s a dick.

4 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Dec 28, 2013 1:23:36pm
They live to horrify us.

That’s your job, Fox.

5 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)  Sun, Dec 29, 2013 5:28:25am

Islamophobia is a specific expression of general Xenophobia. And a very specific kind of Xenophobia: anything that does not correspond to their idealized image of what they want America to look like

6 rosiee  Sun, Dec 29, 2013 9:12:46am

Hitchens on Islamophobia

Youtube Video

7 CuriousLurker  Sun, Dec 29, 2013 11:09:43am
8 b_sharp  Sun, Dec 29, 2013 11:12:20am

re: #4 Romantic Heretic

That’s your job, Fox.

Keeping conservatives conservative.

9 rosiee  Sun, Dec 29, 2013 11:31:00am

re: #7 CuriousLurker

A woman who believes Israeli self-defense is illegal and a writer for the nation, geeze CuriousLurker you arn’t really reaching across the isle.

Laila’s confession:

But while the explainers were busy explaining, 1300 Palestinians were killed and 5400 injured; 13 Israelis were killed in the same time period (4 of them soldiers in “friendly fire” incidents). Tens of thousands of Palestinians have been driven out of their homes, becoming refugees within a refugee camp. A university has been bombed and dozens of UNRWA schools and hospitals have been destroyed. And all for what?

10 CuriousLurker  Sun, Dec 29, 2013 1:24:25pm

re: #9 rosiee

A woman who believes Israeli self-defense is illegal and a writer for the nation, geeze CuriousLurker you arn’t really reaching across the isle.

Laila’s confession:

Am I the sole LGF member responsible for reaching across the aisle? Were YOU reaching across the aisle when you posted Hitchens’ comments?

Oh, and next time link to the full blog entry you’re talking about, which makes no claim about Israeli self-defense being illegal: No Explanation Left Behind.

As for being a writer for The Nation, it’s a well-known, respectable liberal publication that has been in existence since 1865, so I’m not sure how that’s mark against her, which is what you seem to be implying.

BTW, Ms. Lalami has also written for The Boston Globe, Boston Review, The Los Angeles Times, The New York Times, The Washington Post, and The Daily Beast. Based on a quick Google search of her site for “israel” or “hamas”, and skimming a dozen or so of her articles, she doesn’t appear to be an anti-Semite or Hamas supporter, so I don’t see any problem with using her as a source.

11 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 29, 2013 1:30:41pm

I have to admit I’ve always been slightly uncomfortable with the word “Islamophobia,” just on technical grounds. It seems to me that the phenomenon being described is arguably more one of hatred than fear, and “phobia” just seems like a slightly inaccurate way to describe it.

Still, it’s a real thing regardless of what it’s called, and it stinks.

12 SidewaysQuark  Sun, Dec 29, 2013 1:36:55pm

re: #6 rosiee

Hitchens on Islamophobia

[Embedded content]

Hitchens very lucidly addresses the issues, as usual. His presence in this world is missed.

13 CuriousLurker  Sun, Dec 29, 2013 2:17:04pm

re: #11 Charles Johnson

The same could be said for homophobia—i.e. I don’t think those who hate LGBT people are necessarily afraid of them. That said, fear & hatred aren’t that far apart as we tend to hate what we fear. Those who would spread hate usually start by spreading fear:

• “They” (liberals) are coming for your guns, hate God, hate America, are socialists/communists who will redistribute everyone’s wealth, etc.

• “They” (LGBT people) are pedophiles, promiscuous, will turn your kids gay, etc.

• “They” (Jews) are different form us, think they’re better than non-Jews, killed Jesus, control the media, the banks, the government, want to create a NWO etc.

• “They” (Muslims) are different form us, don’t share our values, are violent. hate Jews, hate non-Muslims, have formed a 5th column with the intention of subverting our Constitution & way of life and replacing it with a Global Caliphate which will implement Sharia and turn all non-Muslims into dhimmis, etc.

Come to think of it, something I ran across the other day when responding to D_F in another thread provides an example of the above:

Slobodan Milošević had inflamed Serbian feelings with a speech referring to the Battle of Kosovo. Feelings of victimhood and aggression towards Bosniaks were further stirred up with exaggerated tales about the role played by a small fraction of Bosnian Muslims in the Ustaše genocide of Serbs in the 1940s. Other myths invoked included suggestions that Bosnian Muslims were racially different, typically that they were actually of largely Turkish blood, when in fact DNA tests have shown both groups to share the same gene pool typical of South Slavs. […]

en.wikipedia.org

Fear them.
Yes, those liberals, gays, Jews, Muslims scare me and I hate them for that.

14 b_sharp  Sun, Dec 29, 2013 2:23:15pm

re: #13 CuriousLurker

The same could be said for homophobia—i.e. I don’t think those who hate LGBT people are necessarily afraid of them. That said, fear & hatred aren’t that far apart as we tend to hate what we fear. Those who would spread hate usually start by spreading fear:

• “They” (liberals) are coming for your guns, hate God, hate America, are socialists/communists who redistribute everyone’s wealth, etc.

• “They” (LGBT people) are pedophiles, promiscuous, will turn your kids gay, etc.

• “They” (Jews) are different form us, think they’re better than non-Jews, killed Jesus, control the media, the banks, the government, want to create a NWO etc.

• “They” (Muslims) are different form us, don’t share our values, are violent. hate Jews, hate non-Muslims, have formed a 5th column with the intention of subverting our Constitution & way of life and replacing it with a Global Caliphate which will implement Sharia and turn all non-Muslims into dhimmis, etc.

Come to think of it, something I ran across the other day when responding to D_F in another thread provides an example of the above:

Fear them.
Yes, those liberals, gays, Jews, Muslims scare me and I hate them for that.

The terms homophobia and islamaphobia, etc. were not coined by psychologists, so just as common use of the word theory is different and inaccurate compared to the scientific use, the word phobia has been distorted to send a specific narrative.

15 CuriousLurker  Sun, Dec 29, 2013 2:38:43pm

re: #14 b_sharp

The terms homophobia and islamaphobia, etc. were not coined by psychologists, so just as common use of the word theory is different and inaccurate compared to the scientific use, the word phobia has been distorted to send a specific narrative.

Yes, I’m aware that they’re popular terms rather than part of the clinical taxonomy of phobias, I just wanted to point out that the close link between hate & fear.

16 rosiee  Sun, Dec 29, 2013 4:51:00pm

re: #10 CuriousLurker

We should fear radical Islam and it’s apologists.
The act of hating Muslims for being Muslim does not, in my opinion, consist of majoritively fear, it’s cruelty and ignorance.

17 CuriousLurker  Sun, Dec 29, 2013 6:54:15pm

re: #16 rosiee

We should fear radical Islam and it’s apologists.
The act of hating Muslims for being Muslim does not, in my opinion, consist of majoritively fear, it’s cruelty and ignorance.

No, if you fear radical Islamists—or any bully—they will know it and you will lose because they will use your fear to goad you into doing something rash and/or foolish, then their apologists will jump on your mistake.

You have to know them and know them well. You have to respect them in the sense of not underestimating them, and you have to be smarter, more fearless, and more patient & steadfast than them.

18 CuriousLurker  Sun, Dec 29, 2013 7:42:15pm

re: #17 CuriousLurker

No, if you fear radical Islamists—or any bully—they will know it and you will lose because they will use your fear to goad you into doing something rash and/or foolish, then their apologists will jump on your mistake.

You have to know them and know them well. You have to respect them in the sense of not underestimating them, and you have to be smarter, more fearless, and more patient & steadfast than them.

I would add that attempts to portray them as frightening bogeymen that could be hiding in anyone’s closet just waiting to pounce—exactly as the right-wing demagogues and so-called “counter-jihadists” have done by characterizing all Muslims as dishonest, irrational & violent—is utterly counterproductive.

It’s stupid, irresponsible propaganda that only makes the job of mitigating real threats exponentially more difficult for the serious, rational people tasked with the heavy responsibility of actually keeping us safe.


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