The problem with Ben is he wants to convince you debates are a why to determine morality. But winning a debate is often confirmation bias. And as I pointed out, Lincoln technically speaking lost the Lincoln-Douglas debates. Douglas became Senator not Abe. I don’t find Ben stupid but I do find what he does is extremely dishonest and his whole persona is a holier than thou douche that conservatives like him preport to hate. And so it’s clear I’m not being partisan. Bill Maher is similar in that he has smartest guy in the room syndrome surrounded by like minded allies.