Stock Market Yo-Yo Watch
Business • Views: 26,310
Down we go again; as we write, the Dow index is down 220 points, and the INDP has fallen below 7,000…
675 comments
4 |
slotgun Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:27:50am |
Jeez. Just impeach the guy now. That’s good for a3,000-point pop.
| 5 |
freedombilly Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:28:05am |
This new administration sure is filling Wall Street with a lot of confidence, eh?
| 7 |
kansas Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:28:49am |
Where is this AQ plant man getting his approval ratings?
| 8 |
Wishing Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:28:50am |
What did 3Wood have to say today? He must be ready to head for the hills.
| 11 |
Dianna Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:29:02am |
re: #5 freedombilly
This new administration sure is filling Wall Street with a lot of confidence, eh?
Why should Wall Street be any happier than the rest of us?
| 12 |
jamgarr Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:29:17am |
Doesn’t it have to “Yo” every once in awhile to actually “Yo-Yo”?
| 13 |
CyanSnowHawk Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:29:26am |
re: #8 Wishing
What did 3Wood have to say today? He must be ready to head for the hills.
He’s down to 1.5Wood.
| 14 |
Erik The Red Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:29:34am |
Melt down on lane # 44. Please come and clean up this SHIT.
| 15 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:29:37am |
re: #4 slotgun
Jeez. Just impeach the guy now. That’s good for a3,000-point pop.
Impeach him for what? You have to have actual criminal charges, you know.
And you seriously expect a Dem controlled Congress (House AND Senate) to file and act upon Articles of Impeachment? Dream on.
| 16 |
DaddyG Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:29:53am |
Obama promised this to Joe the Plumber. It is not about generating wealth for all, it is about siphoning off what can be bled from the system and distributing it to the correct people and causes.
| 17 |
Diamond Bullet Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:29:55am |
With the economy and the way Obama is printing money, the only good news is that by the time that blank $900 million check gets to the Palestinians it’ll only have the purchasing power of about three bags of flour.
| 20 |
Researcher...MO Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:30:09am |
Ok, so tell me, it’s Bush’s fault, right? Again, right? The Eastern European banks have NOTHING to do with it , RIGHT?!?
| 21 |
JustABill Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:30:26am |
I don’t think the Yo-Yo analogy fits, Yo-Yos occasionally go up…
| 23 |
J.D. Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:30:47am |
re: #15 FurryOldGuyJeans
Impeach him for what? You have to have actual criminal charges, you know.
And you seriously expect a Dem controlled Congress (House AND Senate) to file and act upon Articles of Impeachment? Dream on.
We can “Hope”, can’t we?
I thought it was all about “Hope”.
| 24 |
Jack Burton Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:30:50am |
re: #4 slotgun
Jeez. Just impeach the guy now. That’s good for a3,000-point pop.
Unfortunately being an idiot or a commie doesn’t qualify as “High Crimes and Misdemeanors”.
| 25 |
Ben Hur Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:30:57am |
Amazing how Cheney can still pull this sh*t off from that secret office in his Winabago.
| 26 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:31:04am |
re: #21 JustABill
I don’t think the Yo-Yo analogy fits, Yo-Yos occasionally go up…
They never do for me. :%P%
| 27 |
samsgran1948 Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:31:20am |
re: #4 slotgun
Jeez. Just impeach the guy now. That’s good for a3,000-point pop.
And you think Biden would be an improvement?
| 28 |
Honorary Yooper Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:31:23am |
I feel like I’m watching a train wreck happening on the NYSE floor.
If this crap keeps up, we may be looking at either Obamadepression or Obamastagflation.
| 29 |
J.D. Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:31:58am |
| 30 |
SummerSong Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:32:09am |
There is no reason to buy and every reason to sell.
| 31 |
Jack Burton Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:32:11am |
re: #18 gregg
It was at -3.4% for the day and now its -3.2%. That’s “up” sorta.
| 32 |
Wishing Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:32:16am |
re: #28 Honorary Yooper
I feel like I’m watching a train wreck happening on the NYSE floor.
If this crap keeps up, we may be looking at either Obamadepression or Obamastagflation.
May be?
| 33 |
MandyManners Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:32:19am |
I HOPE EVERYONE WHO REFUSED TO VOTE FOR MCCAIN BECAUSE HE WASN’T CONSERVATIVE ENOUGH IS FUCKING HAPPY NOW!
| 34 |
Golem Akbar Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:32:27am |
As someone pointed out earlier, we are going in the direction of Mugabe. /Good to have a direction.
| 35 |
Honorary Yooper Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:32:33am |
re: #21 JustABill
I don’t think the Yo-Yo analogy fits, Yo-Yos occasionally go up…
True. This is more like a rocket sled to hell.
| 36 |
DaddyG Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:32:46am |
The DOWn looks less like a Yo-Yo and more like a Yo-vinnie get the cement shoes.
| 37 |
Researcher...MO Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:32:47am |
Oh, and a friend sent me an email today, something about Pelousy wanting a windfall profits tax on retirement accounts. Don’t know if it’s true, but I have to wonder just exactly what profits might be being referred to. So far, the only profit I have on stocks was made years ago, when for personal reasons I had to sell some high-performers. Good thing too, what was worth something then is worth nothing now.
| 38 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:32:54am |
re: #27 samsgran1948
And you think Biden would be an improvement?
I have serious doubts he would be any worse, but then I have been wrong before.
| 40 |
Timbre Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:33:22am |
Maybe Obama is the historical opposite of Herbert Hoover. Maybe 2012 will usher in a conservative evolution.
| 41 |
Athens Runaway Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:33:27am |
re: #6 Hengineer
I wouldn’t call it a yo-yo as much as a bag of bricks.
What I came here to say, “It’s not a yo-yo, yo-yo’s go down and then BACK UP”.
I think a fun experiment to do on Wall Street would be to flash subliminal pictures of Obama on some set of days, pictures of Reagan on other days, and have totty pics be the control group’s pictures. See on which days the economy is the most stimulated.
| 42 |
DaddyG Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:33:38am |
re: #33 MandyManners
I HOPE EVERYONE WHO REFUSED TO VOTE FOR MCCAIN BECAUSE HE WASN’T CONSERVATIVE ENOUGH IS FUCKING HAPPY NOW!
That never gets old.
| 43 |
Jetpilot1101 Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:34:01am |
The heavy hitters in the market are on the sidelines in cash and gold right now. No one can say for sure how much damage the Obama agenda will do to investments and capitalism as a whole. In my opinion, the DOW hasn’t hit a bottom and I think we’ll see 5000 if not 4000 before this is all said and done. For what it’s worth, my advice is to buy gold and if you are into a little risk, buy oil futures.
| 44 |
seekeroftruth Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:34:09am |
re: #15 FurryOldGuyJeans
Impeach him for what? You have to have actual criminal charges, you know.
And you seriously expect a Dem controlled Congress (House AND Senate) to file and act upon Articles of Impeachment? Dream on.
You are right, of course. But, it is a nice dream of dumping this economy wrecker before he leaves me and many others totally broke by destroying 401K. IRAS, stocks, healthcare, job, and whatever else he can destroy…..
| 45 |
kansas Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:34:11am |
Seriously, why is his approval rating staying up?
| 46 |
Honorary Yooper Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:34:14am |
re: #38 FurryOldGuyJeans
I have serious doubts he would be any worse, but then I have been wrong before.
HTF could Biden be any worse!?! At least you know he’s consistently going to say stuff that makes Dan Quayle look like a rocket scientist.
| 47 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:34:28am |
Yo-yo watch…..
| 48 |
Bloodnok Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:34:28am |
| 49 |
Erik The Red Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:34:36am |
re: #19 Hengineer
what?
44 has made this shit. We need someone to clean up. The smart money is bailing out so fast that someone had better start getting the water out of this sinking ship and administration.
God help us. 6000 here we come.
| 50 |
jamgarr Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:34:36am |
| 52 |
Ben Hur Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:34:47am |
I’m going to invest in the Pali stock market.
$2.48 BILLION.
| 53 |
J.D. Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:34:52am |
| 54 |
Honorary Yooper Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:35:07am |
re: #40 Timbre
Maybe Obama is the historical opposite of Herbert Hoover. Maybe 2012 will usher in a conservative evolution.
I would hope for a fiscal conservative revolution (GO MITT!).
Obama is like Hoover and FDR rolled into one crap torilla.
| 55 |
debutaunt Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:35:09am |
re: #31 ArchangelMichael
It was at -3.4% for the day and now its -3.2%. That’s “up” sorta.
RAL! LEY!
| 56 |
Hengineer Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:35:16am |
re: #49 Erik The Red
44 has made this shit. We need someone to clean up. The smart money is bailing out so fast that someone had better start getting the water out of this sinking ship and administration.
God help us. 6000 here we come.
Oh you meant President #44, sometimes it goes right over my head
| 57 |
FrogMarch Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:35:38am |
Who’s life-savings, financial assets and retirement nest eggs are in the crapper? raise your hand.
Thank you Obama. Now - just blame Bush and you can continue to screw us until your term is up. …we are counting the days.
| 58 |
J.S. Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:35:47am |
CNN reports that the recession is worldwide, and that in Tokyo — in Tokyo of all places — tent cities are springing up. (homelessness)
| 59 |
soxfan4life Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:35:56am |
re: #45 kansas
Seriously, why is his approval rating staying up?
With the media as his chief cheer leader how can he not stay up? When Oprah starts leading the cheer section you know things his numbers are bad.
| 60 |
avanti Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:35:56am |
re: #18 gregg
Doesn’t a yo-yo go up and down?
There is a lot of capital sitting it out, waiting to steal some stock and they’ll jump in before it drops to 6000 and they’ll make mad make money on the upside in a year or two.
| 61 |
Ben Hur Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:36:08am |
re: #45 kansas
Seriously, why is his approval rating staying up?
Do you actually think that his constituents have money in the markets, know what the markets are, or are paying attention to anything other than his covers on People Mag, Vanity Fair, Vogue, etc etc etc?
They only pay attention to what the Entertainment Wing of his regime puts out.
| 62 |
Jetpilot1101 Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:36:10am |
re: #45 kansas
Seriously, why is his approval rating staying up?
Rush was running some of those numbers this morning; Obama’s approval rating is at 60% but down from 70% a month ago. He also has lower approval then JIMMY CARTER did at the same time during his presidency. If this is any indication of where the economy is going, we are really F—-ed!
| 63 |
rawmuse Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:36:17am |
Conditions are still not bad enough for America to want Change.
Not until America turns on a light switch and nothing happens.
Not until you can’t fill your gas tank at any price.
Not until every single person gets a ration for groceries.
Not until health care is denied to you because you are too fat, too old, you smoke, or drink.
Then, we may realize what an epic mistake we have made. Maybe.
| 64 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:36:21am |
I think I saw Dick Cheney with a detonator over on Wall Street. Anybody else see that?
| 65 |
Amer-I-Can Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:36:26am |
Did you take your dramamine? This kind of motion sickness could make for a real mess.
Hope and Change from “The One” (TM)
OTO, OTO, OTO
| 66 |
dentate Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:36:44am |
re: #44 seekeroftruth
You are right, of course. But, it is a nice dream of dumping this economy wrecker before he leaves me and many others totally broke by destroying 401K. IRAS, stocks, healthcare, job, and whatever else he can destroy…..
Then, you will quickly need a reason to impeach Biden, who would be worse. Then what do you get after that—Hillary? Pelosi? No, the best hope here is to work to defeat the budget in Congress, and to work toward a massive turnover in the 2010 election.
| 67 |
Wishing Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:36:44am |
re: #45 kansas
Seriously, why is his approval rating staying up?
His approval rating is up because there is a large number of people in this country who have been wanting to stick it to *the man* for a long time. The King of Nothing is the *man* killer.
He wants girly boys like himself flouncing around.
| 68 |
pat Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:37:15am |
Who needs a stock market. Corporations are merely a step in the road to collectives. A remnant of capitalism.
| 69 |
Bloodnok Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:37:16am |
re: #56 Hengineer
Oh you meant President #44, sometimes it goes right over my head
Me too. I went searching through threads looking at comment 44s.
| 70 |
Researcher...MO Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:37:17am |
Even more mind boggling are the people who are still supporting bambi. We have one in our office who was actually angry at me for pointing out that the Dow has been falling ever since it looked like Bambi would win. She tried to say it was my opinion, which didn’t work, of course.
What really amazes me about this person is that she has a 6-yr old son, doesn’t she understand that his standard of living will probably never match her own? I decided at a young age not to have kids, and I am very glad I didn’t.
| 71 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:37:20am |
re: #44 seekeroftruth
You are right, of course. But, it is a nice dream of dumping this economy wrecker before he leaves me and many others totally broke by destroying 401K. IRAS, stocks, healthcare, job, and whatever else he can destroy…..
I do believe there are some charges that could stick, such as his attempt to subvert the Constitution by assuming the responsibility of who does the census. But the political resolve to actually pull the trigger on the impeachment gun is weak to nonexistent.
| 72 |
Ben Hur Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:37:26am |
Are you better off than you were a 4 weeks ago?
/Start the friggin TV ad campaigns!
| 73 |
soxfan4life Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:37:59am |
re: #67 Wishing
His approval rating is up because there is a large number of people in this country who have been wanting to stick it to *the man* for a long time. The King of Nothing is the *man* killer.
He wants girly boys like himself flouncing around.
I know some girlie boys, and CBBHO you are a huge girlie boy.
| 74 |
Occasional Reader Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:38:15am |
re: #61 Ben Hur
Do you actually think that his constituents have money in the markets
On that particular point… yes, a lot of them do. Affluent urban liberals. Of course, they’re busy blaming Bush.
| 76 |
JustABill Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:38:32am |
re: #50 jamgarr
Your post was similar to mine, his almost identical.
| 77 |
Honorary Yooper Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:38:47am |
re: #60 avanti
There is a lot of capital sitting it out, waiting to steal some stock and they’ll jump in before it drops to 6000 and they’ll make mad make money on the upside in a year or two.
I doubt it. If you take a look at the Great Depression, the capital sat out until after the two guys running the show were gone from office.
I say this lasts at least till 2012 before it gets better.
| 78 |
Amer-I-Can Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:38:48am |
re: #45 kansas
Seriously, why is his approval rating staying up?
Because those who approve of him have NOTHING invested in our future. When you eat at the government trough, you have to appease “Dear Leader” to keep gettin’ that check.
| 79 |
jamgarr Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:38:53am |
| 80 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:38:55am |
I have the greatest excuse ever for doing nothing today. Shoveled the sidewalk, a spot in the grass for the dog to pee, and the driveway so my wife can park in the garage.
She’ll think it took 6 hours.
As she said this morning, out of shape, middle age man with a snow-shovel… Recipe for disaster.
| 81 |
FloridaAnole Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:39:01am |
Well, ya gotta admit —CBBHO is pretty efficient when he sets out to do something; he and his little friends set out to tank the economy back in August, and they’re almost within sight of their goal. Hope all those CBBHO voters feel inspired by the noble sacrifice they’re making as their 401Ks tank — oh wait — 40% of them don’t work, and the rest are Holllywood & East Coast Zillionaires who have their $$$ stashed in the Cayman Islands or Zurich (although this last might be getting a little dicey, if recent news reports are to be believed.)
| 83 |
soxfan4life Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:39:06am |
re: #71 FurryOldGuyJeans
I do believe there are some charges that could stick, such as his attempt to subvert the Constitution by assuming the responsibility of who does the census. But the political resolve to actually pull the trigger on the impeachment gun is weak to nonexistent.
Don’t forget about the permanent D seat he wants to give DC. Constitution be damned.
| 84 |
Wishing Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:39:17am |
| 85 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:39:35am |
re: #46 Honorary Yooper
HTF could Biden be any worse!?! At least you know he’s consistently going to say stuff that makes Dan Quayle look like a rocket scientist.
He could stumble bad enough to screw things up inadvertently at a worse level than O can deliberately.
I do believe Biden is not as sound an impeachment insurance policy for O as Cheney was for Bush.
| 86 |
debutaunt Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:39:43am |
re: #78 Amer-I-Can
Because those who approve of him have NOTHING invested in our future. When you eat at the government trough, you have to appease “Dear Leader” to keep gettin’ that check.
Lizards are on the ‘do-not-call list.
| 87 |
Rexatosis Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:39:59am |
The markets have rendered their judgement of the Obamastration’s ability to handle this crisis. Maybe Rahm and the White House staff should spend more time pouring over the details of the budget busting behemoths of pork being passed by a completely corrupt Congress and pull out the pork and earmarks as promised by the messiah instead of focusing their wrath on Rush Limbaugh and other irrelevencies.
| 88 |
Erik The Red Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:40:12am |
| 89 |
avanti Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:40:25am |
re: #45 kansas
Seriously, why is his approval rating staying up?
FDR was reelected in the depths of a depression, the voters don’t blame a popular President for not solving big problems fast.. If the economy is still tanking in 2 years, things will change.
| 90 |
Occasional Reader Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:40:25am |
re: #83 soxfan4life
Don’t forget about the permanent D seat he wants to give DC. Constitution be damned.
And how long after that do you think they’ll turn to insisting we have two Senate seats as well? We’ll be the only city in the nation represented by two Senators! Hooray! Of course, they’ll be permanent Dem seats, by a remarkable coincidence.
| 92 |
soxfan4life Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:41:02am |
re: #88 Erik The Red
Sorry I refuse to call him by his name. I will call him El Presidente but that is as far as I can go without puking.
He would like Comrade better than El Presidente.
| 93 |
seekeroftruth Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:41:18am |
re: #66 dentate
I agree with you. I’m just beyond anger watching my hard earned money disappear. Time to redirect the anger to what we can do.
| 94 |
Charles Johnson Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:41:33am |
The creationists at “Uncommon Descent” think Pamela Geller’s nasty post at UrbanDictionary.com is the height of wit.
[Link: www.uncommondescent.com…]
| 95 |
brookly red Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:41:40am |
re: #60 avanti
There is a lot of capital sitting it out, waiting to steal some stock and they’ll jump in before it drops to 6000 and they’ll make mad make money on the upside in a year or two.
Well yes, that is probably true… but in a year or two literally millions of people will have been forced into government dependence.
| 96 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:41:42am |
re: #60 avanti
There is a lot of capital sitting it out, waiting to steal some stock and they’ll jump in before it drops to 6000 and they’ll make mad make money on the upside in a year or two.
And your expertise for making such a patently outlandish statement is what?
Oh yeah, you believe in the O. That is your expertise.
| 97 |
soxfan4life Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:42:07am |
re: #90 Occasional Reader
And how long after that do you think they’ll turn to insisting we have two Senate seats as well? We’ll be the only city in the nation represented by two Senators! Hooray! Of course, they’ll be permanent Dem seats, by a remarkable coincidence.
Surely he must have some goals for his 2nd term. Maybe the UN should have a house seat as well.
| 98 |
jorline Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:42:16am |
“Barack / 08”
“Broke / 09”
A bumper sticker I saw the other day.
| 99 |
CyanSnowHawk Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:42:21am |
re: #56 Hengineer
Oh you meant President #44, sometimes it goes right over my head
Don’t feel bad, I was checking previous postings that had at least 44 comments.
| 101 |
Ben Hur Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:42:33am |
re: #94 Charles
The creationists at “Uncommon Descent” think Pamela Geller’s nasty post at UrbanDictionary.com is the height of wit.
[Link: www.uncommondescent.com…]
Saw that last week.
Ridiculous.
| 102 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:42:45am |
re: #89 avanti
FDR was elected at the BEGINNING of the Great Depression and quickly did the most to reach the depths.
You are so fucking clueless about history.
| 103 |
jamgarr Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:42:50am |
| 104 |
Honorary Yooper Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:42:59am |
re: #89 avanti
FDR was reelected in the depths of a depression, the voters don’t blame a popular President for not solving big problems fast.. If the economy is still tanking in 2 years, things will change.
And sometimes they get hoodwinked into voting for the guy who maintains the depression rather than fixing the depression with tried and true remedies. BHO is using FDR’s playbook, and I fear it will have the same results.
| 106 |
Erik The Red Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:43:06am |
re: #92 soxfan4life
He would like Comrade better than El Presidente.
I hear that enough here in Africa. If I hear that when I get back to the US I think my head will explode.
| 107 |
Researcher...MO Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:43:18am |
So can anybody tell me if I should stop the 401K deductions from my paycheck. I don’t really want to ask the Edward-Jones guy…
| 108 |
Shr_Nfr Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:43:29am |
Europe is doing even worse than we are. Off around 5%. There are massive problems in the Eastern European countries that may blow a lot of their banks out of the water.
| 109 |
Erik The Red Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:43:54am |
| 110 |
bolivar Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:44:02am |
re: #33 MandyManners
I HOPE EVERYONE WHO REFUSED TO VOTE FOR MCCAIN BECAUSE HE WASN’T CONSERVATIVE ENOUGH IS FUCKING HAPPY NOW!
Keep saying that my dear Mandy. As much as I didn’t approve of him the alternative we have now is much worse and will only keep getting worse because he hasn’t a fucking clue what he is doing. Genius my ass - this guy makes W look like Einstein - come to think of it the messiah’s entire cabinet and congress makes W look like Einstein. That is the scary part.
| 111 |
Hengineer Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:44:05am |
re: #108 Shr_Nfr
Europe is doing even worse than we are. Off around 5%. There are massive problems in the Eastern European countries that may blow a lot of their banks out of the water.
So is the Euro going to fall worse than the dollar?
| 112 |
jorline Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:44:35am |
re: #108 Shr_Nfr
Europe is doing even worse than we are. Off around 5%. There are massive problems in the Eastern European countries that may blow a lot of their banks out of the water.
| 113 |
dentate Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:44:59am |
re: #105 buzzsawmonkey
Coming next—US Government Printing Office produces dollar bills with disappearing ink!
On recycled toilet paper! Or should we use reusable cloth for that now?
| 114 |
wiffersnapper Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:45:12am |
It’s like the scariest roller coaster ever, it keeps freefalling!
| 115 |
SlartyBartfast Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:45:20am |
re: #45 kansas
Seriously, why is his approval rating staying up?
It’s not…Obama Popularity Plunges— Down 22 Points in 40 Days
| 116 |
wiffersnapper Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:45:39am |
Correction, make that Tower of Doom, not roller coaster
| 117 |
Ojoe Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:45:41am |
People considered in general shall have to rethink what they do, why they do it, and what is worth doing.
| 118 |
Kenneth Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:45:49am |
re: #104 Honorary Yooper
The worst year of the Great Depression was 1932. If Obama likes to make comparisons between his stimulus package & the New Deal, he should realize, we are at 1931. The worse is yet to come.
| 119 |
Honorary Yooper Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:45:51am |
re: #94 Charles
The creationists at “Uncommon Descent” think Pamela Geller’s nasty post at UrbanDictionary.com is the height of wit.
[Link: www.uncommondescent.com…]
I think this describes that website to a “T”:
“What an incredible smell you’ve discovered!”
- Han Solo after entering the garbage compaction chamber
| 120 |
Bloodnok Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:45:58am |
re: #94 Charles
The creationists at “Uncommon Descent” think Pamela Geller’s nasty post at UrbanDictionary.com is the height of wit.
[Link: www.uncommondescent.com…]
What an absolute joke she is. That is the blog equivalent of scribbling someone’s name on the lavatory wall.
| 122 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:46:11am |
re: #111 Hengineer
So is the Euro going to fall worse than the dollar?
So far the dollar has been a haven in a sea of uncertainty. O is doing his best to destroy the harbor.
| 123 |
dentate Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:46:54am |
re: #94 Charles
The creationists at “Uncommon Descent” think Pamela Geller’s nasty post at UrbanDictionary.com is the height of wit.
[Link: www.uncommondescent.com…]
I think their bitterness and inability to do anything other than launch ad hominem attacks fits perfectly with the mindset of intelligent design (I can’t explain it, so it didn’t happen!) and that you should see it as a backhanded compliment to the importance of your blog.
| 124 |
Kenneth Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:46:59am |
re: #111 Hengineer
Yes, Europe in general, and Eastern Europe in particular will suffer much more than the US in this crisis. East Asia also stands to lose heavily.
| 125 |
avanti Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:47:14am |
re: #94 Charles
The creationists at “Uncommon Descent” think Pamela Geller’s nasty post at UrbanDictionary.com is the height of wit.
[Link: www.uncommondescent.com…]
Not very fond of you, or LGF are they ?
| 126 |
Bloodnok Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:47:15am |
re: #122 FurryOldGuyJeans
So far the dollar has been a haven in a sea of uncertainty. O is doing his best to destroy the harbor.
Well, he is lowering the seas.
| 127 |
pink freud Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:47:30am |
re: #114 wiffersnapper
It’s like the scariest roller coaster ever, it keeps freefalling!
No steel, nuts or bolts either. It’s held together and crafted from the gossamer strands of hope! and change!
| 128 |
gregg Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:47:34am |
re: #20 Researcher…MO
Ok, so tell me, it’s Bush’s fault, right? Again, right? The Eastern European banks have NOTHING to do with it , RIGHT?!?
Probably not popular to say, but I personally think everyone has a share of the blame (Democrats, Republicans, Federal Reserve, borrowers and lenders). It’s like the world went mad and threw out every bit of fiscal sense.
| 129 |
Golem Akbar Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:47:36am |
re: #109 Erik The Red
I so want one.
I like it. If I put it on my car, however, it would probably get keyed and
spraypainted. I live in L.A.
| 130 |
Catttt Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:47:42am |
re: #94 Charles
The creationists at “Uncommon Descent” think Pamela Geller’s nasty post at UrbanDictionary.com is the height of wit.
[Link: www.uncommondescent.com…]
So has anyone posted one for her? It would have something to do with cleavage and politics and cleavage.
| 131 |
Dianna Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:47:43am |
re: #94 Charles
The creationists at “Uncommon Descent” think Pamela Geller’s nasty post at UrbanDictionary.com is the height of wit.
[Link: www.uncommondescent.com…]
As usual, there is an inability to properly employ apostrophes. And a lack of coherence.
Someone, advise the lady on how to use grammar checker. It might not save her, but it might help.
| 133 |
Honorary Yooper Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:48:07am |
re: #124 Kenneth
Yes, Europe in general, and Eastern Europe in particular will suffer much more than the US in this crisis. East Asia also stands to lose heavily.
So, in other words, to put it mildly,
We’re fucked.
| 134 |
Kenneth Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:48:10am |
#94 Charles
Who gives a toss what they think? You’ve been called worse things by better people.
| 135 |
blangwort Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:48:16am |
We’re not flying, we’re falling with style (Toy Story).
/not sarc
| 136 |
gregg Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:48:26am |
re: #31 ArchangelMichael
It was at -3.4% for the day and now its -3.2%. That’s “up” sorta.
You’re a “glass half full” kind of person!
| 137 |
CommonCents Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:48:46am |
I’m scheduled to “receive” $312.00/yr more from my paycheck of my OWN MONEY with the porkulus plan.
Faruq in the Gaza strip is now scheduled to get ~$302/yr from my paycheck as planned by the great Obama Foriegn Policy plan. (based on CIA Fact Book population figures)
WTF!
| 138 |
subsailor68 Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:48:49am |
re: #102 FurryOldGuyJeans
FDR was elected at the BEGINNING of the Great Depression and quickly did the most to reach the depths.
You are so fucking clueless about history.
Yep. Hoover really helped him with the Smoot-Hawley tariff and the $500 million Farm Board debacle. Hoover’s policies were viewed as failures, and really opened the door to a thrashing by Roosevelt. But as you say, it was the beginning…the NRA, AAA, and WPC (among other “programs”) really tanked the country!
| 139 |
jorline Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:48:51am |
I hate it when this administration talks about the see-saw markets.
I saw one positive day in the last two weeks and see a butt load of negative days.
| 141 |
Dianna Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:49:06am |
re: #128 gregg
Probably not popular to say, but I personally think everyone has a share of the blame (Democrats, Republicans, Federal Reserve, borrowers and lenders). It’s like the world went mad and threw out every bit of fiscal sense.
You have a point.
But, oh, my, is Obama making things worse!
| 142 |
Salem Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:49:12am |
You can’t win with Obama. If the market keeps going down that gives him a crisis and license to New Steal. If the market defies gravity and goes up it makes it look like he has credibility. If it’s stable, he can stay the course, which means anything he wants it to.
| 143 |
Jetpilot1101 Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:49:13am |
re: #128 gregg
Probably not popular to say, but I personally think everyone has a share of the blame (Democrats, Republicans, Federal Reserve, borrowers and lenders). It’s like the world went mad and threw out every bit of fiscal sense.
Bingo and an upding.
| 144 |
CyanSnowHawk Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:49:20am |
re: #115 SlartyBartfast
It’s not…Obama Popularity Plunges— Down 22 Points in 40 Days
That does not bode well for the end of his 100 days, does it?
| 145 |
Unakite Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:49:28am |
Robama Hood. Tax the producers and redistribute to the moochers.
| 146 |
Golem Akbar Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:49:42am |
re: #130 Catttt
So has anyone posted one for her? It would have something to do with cleavage and politics and cleavage.
Ahem…let’s not knock cleavage…ahem.
| 147 |
J.D. Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:49:55am |
Someone asked about Europe?
(RTTNews) - An emergency summit of the European Union (EU) leaders rejected Hungary’s call for a 180 billion-euro ($228 billion) aid package for Central and Eastern Europe, giving a clear message that the bloc was determined to avoid protectionist moves in response to the ongoing economic crisis.The summit, convened at a time when the worst economic slump since World War II is devastating Central and Eastern Europe, did not announce any new EU aid package for the badly-hit economies of the region.
The European Commission fears that EU’s $17-trillion economy will shrink 1.8 percent this year, with the effects of the downturn being already manifested in the erstwhile Soviet bloc countries, including Latvia, Poland, Hungary, and Romania.
The summit also refused to concede the idea of a rescue package for automakers, out of concerns over budget deficits, and told car-makers, including General Motors’ European arm, to seek their parental governments’ help.
EU forecasts a sales drop of 18 percent in the automobile industry this year.
Despite the current trend of skyrocketing budget deficits, the EU set no deadline for governments to erase their deficits.
Sunday’s development exposed the beginning of a new east-west rift.
A pre-summit meeting by nine East European leaders warned the West against putting up a “new iron curtain” in Europe…five years after the EU opened its doors to the east.
The western bloc, led by Germany, took a strong stand against giving special consideration for the ex-communist economies of Eastern Europe.
“I see a very different situation—you can compare neither Slovenia nor Slovakia with Hungary,” German Chancellor Angela Merkel told reporters during the summit held in Brussels.
She was of the opinion that aid for Eastern Europe needed to be channeled through institutions like the International Monetary Fund.
Germany is the biggest contributor to the EU budget. …
| 148 |
Pyrocles Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:50:00am |
Obama just inherited the mess from Bush. Now he has to fix it (by implementing Socialism) /
re: #45 kansas
Seriously, why is his approval rating staying up?
| 149 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:50:10am |
Cool. I’m on an anti-creationist website.
HA! Losers!
| 150 |
MandyManners Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:50:13am |
re: #45 kansas
Seriously, why is his approval rating staying up?
Class envy. There are many who believe that the stock market is only for rich people.
| 151 |
Honorary Yooper Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:50:13am |
re: #131 Dianna
As usual, there is an inability to properly employ apostrophes. And a lack of coherence.
Someone, advise the lady on how to use grammar checker. It might not save her, but it might help.
Pam really needs to get a day job.
| 152 |
midwestgak Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:50:20am |
DOW at 6823 -240. That’s approx -80 points each hour.
| 153 |
Leonidas Hoplite Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:50:23am |
re: #118 Kenneth
The worst year of the Great Depression was 1932. If Obama likes to make comparisons between his stimulus package & the New Deal, he should realize, we are at 1931. The worse is yet to come.
The worst year for the stock market was 1932 - I beleive the worst year for the Great Depression came later. 1936 or 1937…can someone check their copy of Forgotten Man?
| 154 |
nyc redneck Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:50:33am |
the stock market is tanking because people who really work and produce know what it is going on.
they have no confidence in O. he is out to destroy the system that has afforded success for people who actually do something.
what will be left of the pie for them when O shrinks it w/ his taxes, penalties and entitlement programs?
socialism is a dream killer.
| 155 |
FrogMarch Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:50:40am |
I’m listening to Mike Rosen talk to Colorado Governor Bill Ritter on the radio this AM. Ritter laughed when Rosen suggested that teachers unions have too much power and that we should eliminate tenure. (we should be able to fire bad teachers.) Ritter mentioned the governors meeting with the President last week. blah blah blah - The dems have mastered the art of all talk and no action.
| 156 |
yenta-fada Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:50:54am |
re: #43 Jetpilot1101
England will print money to buy up everything.
[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk…]
Cash (some at home), gold, silver, necessities from the supermarket that have a long shelf life, family, and friends, and faith. All will get you through the inflationary times with less pain. Not necessarily in that order, and probably an incomplete list. There may be a bank “holiday” at some point where you will NOT be able to get at your money while things are sorted out. Act accordingly. Again, do your own due diligence, etc. I have acted on this for the past eight years and, so far, it is working well.
| 157 |
Shr_Nfr Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:51:33am |
Bambi’s Rasmussen approval rating has now it a new low at +10. Strong Approves - Strong Disapproves [Link: www.rasmussenreports.com…]
| 158 |
avanti Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:51:39am |
re: #96 FurryOldGuyJeans
And your expertise for making such a patently outlandish statement is what?
Oh yeah, you believe in the O. That is your expertise.
No, it’s from my broker who pulled me out when the market was 20% higher and just called saying he was getting ready to jump back in on selected stocks this week.
| 159 |
bolivar Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:51:50am |
re: #137 CommonCents
I’m scheduled to “receive” $312.00/yr more from my paycheck of my OWN MONEY with the porkulus plan.
Faruq in the Gaza strip is now scheduled to get ~$302/yr from my paycheck as planned by the great Obama Foriegn Policy plan. (based on CIA Fact Book population figures)
WTF!
Nope, the money you are not paying now will be paid when you do your taxes. Heard this on Limbaugh Friday and am waiting for somebody to confirm it. If true it needs to be broadcast loud and clear. They can take their lies and stuff them up their smelly butts.
| 160 |
Catttt Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:52:19am |
re: #131 Dianna
As usual, there is an inability to properly employ apostrophes. And a lack of coherence.
Someone, advise the lady on how to use grammar checker. It might not save her, but it might help.
She does seem to be quite fond of sentence fragments.
| 162 |
CyanSnowHawk Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:52:38am |
re: #139 jorline
I hate it when this administration talks about the see-saw markets.
I saw one positive day in the last two weeks and see a butt load of negative days.
That’s what happens when you have the consumer on one side and a great big engorged government on the other.
| 163 |
Dianna Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:52:39am |
re: #151 Honorary Yooper
Pam really needs to get a day job.
And deprive people of her insights?! Never!
(Actually, I have no idea of her circumstances, and I’m just being nasty. That piece was remarkably vile, and cheap.)
| 164 |
jaunte Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:52:40am |
re: #131 Dianna
Does “formally” conservative mean the same as ‘formerly’ conservative, or does that post at Uncommon Descent imply we’re dressing up?
| 165 |
subsailor68 Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:52:46am |
re: #153 Leonidas Hoplite
The worst year for the stock market was 1932 - I beleive the worst year for the Great Depression came later. 1936 or 1937…can someone check their copy of Forgotten Man?
I’d have to go back and look, but if IIRC you’re right. At least there was a big dip in one of those years…kind of like a second great depression folded into the overall Great Depression. If I can get some time, I’ll see if I can find the reference.
| 167 |
Unakite Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:52:56am |
re: #31 ArchangelMichael
It was at -3.4% for the day and now its -3.2%. That’s “up” sorta.
Uptick. Now you can sell short.
| 168 |
avanti Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:53:17am |
re: #128 gregg
Probably not popular to say, but I personally think everyone has a share of the blame (Democrats, Republicans, Federal Reserve, borrowers and lenders). It’s like the world went mad and threw out every bit of fiscal sense.
Yes, it’s not a GOP/Democrat thing or even just a USA deal, it’s world wide.
| 169 |
Researcher...MO Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:53:30am |
re: #128 gregg
I would agree with that!
| 170 |
jaunte Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:53:51am |
re: #150 MandyManners
Class envy. There are many who believe that the stock market is only for rich people.
One woman I work with is still celebrating the fact that she’ll get a tax break.
She has the blinders welded on.
| 171 |
Dianna Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:54:04am |
re: #160 Catttt
She does seem to be quite fond of sentence fragments.
Yes, she does. I wonder if she ever proof-reads?
| 172 |
CyanSnowHawk Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:54:05am |
| 173 |
Shr_Nfr Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:54:28am |
re: #111 Hengineer
Hard to say what is going to happen, but there are some pretty sick easter european countries. Latvia is about on the edge of default. Other places like Bulgaria are not far away. The EU is starting to go into every man for himself and the devil take the hindmost mode. [Link: online.wsj.com…] A lot of quasi-protectionist stuff going on. Not at all good.
| 174 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:54:35am |
re: #153 Leonidas Hoplite
The worst year for the stock market was 1932 - I beleive the worst year for the Great Depression came later. 1936 or 1937…can someone check their copy of Forgotten Man?
The worst was 1929, which started the whole slide. 1932 was IIRC the worst overall year.
The Great Depression was a delayed reflection of market uncertainty by several years.
| 175 |
debutaunt Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:54:36am |
re: #164 jaunte
Does “formally” conservative mean the same as ‘formerly’ conservative, or does that post at Uncommon Descent imply we’re dressing up?
hahahahahahhahahahaa
| 176 |
Honorary Yooper Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:54:44am |
re: #163 Dianna
And deprive people of her insights?! Never!
(Actually, I have no idea of her circumstances, and I’m just being nasty. That piece was remarkably vile, and cheap.)
So am I, as that bathroom graffiti was vile and cheap. Wait, I’ve seen bathroom graffiti with more redeeming qualities than Pam’s Urban Dictionary scrawl.
| 177 |
nyc redneck Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:54:47am |
re: #166 Jetpilot1101
I HOPE BARACK OBAMA FAILS!
LOL, see my post # 161.
i’m listening to rush ( too)
| 178 |
Afrocity Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:54:47am |
I just made my monthly payment on my student loan to the US Dept. Of Education. The only debt I have.
Thanks America for sending me to college and graduate school.
| 179 |
Catttt Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:54:55am |
I think a hunk of voters - the swing hunk - voted for the O the same way people smack the side of a computer or TV (once upon a time) to see if it will shake things up and get it working. Those people will not do so again. IMHO.
| 180 |
J.S. Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:55:04am |
re: #94 Charles
What’s with all of Dembski’s Canadian connections? Is it because he falls in league with silencing/censoring any critics? An advocate of the HRC”s concept of “free” or not-so-free Speech? along with, of course, the obligatory ad hominem attacks. I suspect that must be it…here’s a Wiki article, re: his web blog..
| 181 |
Wishing Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:55:09am |
| 182 |
Bloodnok Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:55:16am |
re: #142 Salem
You can’t win with Obama. If the market keeps going down that gives him a crisis and license to New Steal. If the market defies gravity and goes up it makes it look like he has credibility. If it’s stable, he can stay the course, which means anything he wants it to.
Exactly. This crisis is not “going to waste”.
| 183 |
MandyManners Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:55:24am |
The assumption that Obama will need the nation to prosper in order to protect the 2010 mid-term election incorrectly assumes that he esteems free market capitalism. He does not. Rather than win through superior ideas and policies, the Democrat plan for success in the mid-term elections is to win by destroying political opposition.
Obama adheres to the Saul Alinksy Rules for Radicals method of politics, which teaches the dark art of destroying political adversaries. However, that text reveals only one front in the radical left’s war against America. The Cloward/Piven Strategy is another method employed by the radical Left to create and manage crisis. This strategy explains Rahm Emanuel’s ominous statement, “You never want a serious crisis to go to waste.”
The Cloward/Piven Strategy is named after Columbia University sociologists Richard Andrew Cloward and Frances Fox Piven. Their goal is to overthrow capitalism by overwhelming the government bureaucracy with entitlement demands. The created crisis provides the impetus to bring about radical political change.
SNIP
| 184 |
Kenneth Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:55:37am |
re: #133 Honorary Yooper
Yes. I’ve posted this before, so in case you missed it and have an hour to spend finding out how bad the next few years are going to be, this is a much watch video:
Niall Ferguson Lecture: ‘There will be blood’
Executive summary:
- we haven’t seen the worse yet
- several European banks will collapse in the next few weeks
- Europe & east Asia will be hardest hit, expect riots & gov’ts to fall
- the US stimulus package won’t help
- the Fed will be forced to print money, pushing inflation
- Russia will stir up trouble in the Middle East & reassert her power in eastern Europe
- the US dollar will remain the world reserve currency, because of US political stability and the rule of law, & since there is no real alternative to the dollar
| 186 |
pittrader1988 Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:55:50am |
I am a trader. Not difficult to see what happened to this market. Take a look at the chart of the S+P. In October, Obama overtook McCain in the polls. Look at the market since then. If you sold any bounce, you’d have made money.
This will continue. Obama and his advisors, and administration think they are above the law of economics. Keynes twisted economic theories, and they work for short term stimulus. However, Adam Smith postulated the true way back in 1774.
The invisible hand will swat the best laid plans by Pelosi, and the rest of them.
Central planning never works. It always fails.
Dow will trade 5400, probably 2700. I am not trying to be reactionary, or shocking for attention. In 2000, on Bloomberg Television, I said the NASDAQ would trade 1500 when it was around 5000. I saved the tape.
There is a good editorial in the Financial Times by Clive somebody. Obama will destroy wealth, and the American economy.
| 187 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:55:50am |
re: #178 Afrocity
Too cool. Make low payments. Gonna be a teensy tiny debt in a few months.
| 188 |
debutaunt Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:55:59am |
re: #168 avanti
Yes, it’s not a GOP/Democrat thing or even just a USA deal, it’s world wide.
Soros sold the world short?
| 189 |
CyanSnowHawk Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:56:01am |
re: #152 midwestgak
DOW at 6823 -240. That’s approx -80 points each hour.
That’s on pace for an under 6500 close. Unless trading controls step in first.
| 190 |
Shr_Nfr Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:56:05am |
At this point, its a sell what you can, not what you want market.
| 191 |
Dianna Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:56:23am |
re: #164 jaunte
Does “formally” conservative mean the same as ‘formerly’ conservative, or does that post at Uncommon Descent imply we’re dressing up?
I think “formally” is a put-down, implying that many of us who identify ourselves as conservatives are in lock-step. Clearly, this is not true; almost every one of us, if asked to define our “conservatism”, would differ sharply on many points.
About all we agree on seems to be the need for individual rights and individual liberty.
| 192 |
kansas Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:56:35am |
re: #142 Salem
You can’t win with Obama. If the market keeps going down that gives him a crisis and license to New Steal. If the market defies gravity and goes up it makes it look like he has credibility. If it’s stable, he can stay the course, which means anything he wants it to.
If the market goes up he talks it down.
| 193 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:56:40am |
re: #178 Afrocity
I just made my monthly payment on my student loan to the US Dept. Of Education. The only debt I have.
Thanks America for sending me to college and graduate school.
You’re welcome, having done my part of helping collateralize that loan. ;)
| 194 |
Ben Hur Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:56:42am |
re: #151 Honorary Yooper
Pam really needs to get a day job.
Pam has already had too many “jobs.”
Some women don’t know when to stop.
/bbl, really this time.
| 195 |
Rexatosis Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:56:57am |
RE #33 Mandymanners
Unfortunately “South Park” has it right. Elections are usually a choice between a “turd sandwich” and a “giant douche.” If you are waiting for a filet you’ll be waiting forever. One’s got to assess the candidate’s positions and figure out if the “turd sandwich” has enough fiber in it to do you some good or if the “giant douche” will really clean you up rather than clean you out. Our problem as a nation is too many people who understand their choice is between a “turd sandwich” and a “giant douche” refuse to vote and cede the choice to a bunch of dimwits who think the sh*t in the “turd sandwich” doesn’t stink and the “giant douche” is really champagne.
I held my nose but I chose.
| 196 |
captdiggs Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:57:08am |
Obama’s announcement of higher taxes, especially on capital gains, was the kiss of death.
| 197 |
Erik The Red Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:57:28am |
re: #166 Jetpilot1101
I HOPE BARACK OBAMA FAILS!
I agree and disagree. If 44 fails he will do so much damage it will take years to recover. I think he needs to find some traction and just keep the seat warm until 2012.
| 199 |
Honorary Yooper Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:57:49am |
re: #174 FurryOldGuyJeans
The worst was 1929, which started the whole slide. 1932 was IIRC the worst overall year.
The Great Depression was a delayed reflection of market uncertainty by several years.
1929 was the huge stock market slide, but the worst years were yet to come. The economy sild down to 1933, picked up slightly for 1934, slid for 1935, stayed steady for 1936, and plunged yet again, and deeper, for 1937 and 1938. The depression didn’t really end until the middle of WWII when FDR dropped the anti-business attitude. Business was still weary until Truman became President in 1945.
| 200 |
FloridaAnole Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:58:04am |
re: #89 avanti
FDR was reelected in the depths of a depression, the voters don’t blame a popular President for not solving big problems fast.. If the economy is still tanking in 2 years, things will change.
The Great Depression was still going full blast until December 1941 despite all that FDR and his Brain Trust could do; It was Hirohito and Adolf Hitler that got us out of the Great Depression.
Unfortunately for CBBHO’s attempt to channel FDR, we no longer have much of an industrial base to serve as a recovery engine. We rely on other countries for most of our manufactured goods, and for much of our agricultural produce. I don’t think the combined efforts of 1,700,000 journalists, Harvard School of Public Policy apparatchiks and yuppie bond traders can pull us out of this death spiral.
Well, maybe one of Rahm Emanuel’s button men will get caught breaking into Republican HQ, and then …
| 201 |
Shr_Nfr Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:58:06am |
re: #188 debutaunt
Probably. Please understand how he functions. He pays to get inside information on macro policy and then makes macro bets.
| 202 |
Dianna Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:58:11am |
re: #178 Afrocity
I just made my monthly payment on my student loan to the US Dept. Of Education. The only debt I have.
Thanks America for sending me to college and graduate school.
Thank you for paying your loans! It’s a wonderful demonstration of how to do things right.
| 203 |
subsailor68 Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:58:15am |
re: #153 Leonidas Hoplite
The worst year for the stock market was 1932 - I beleive the worst year for the Great Depression came later. 1936 or 1937…can someone check their copy of Forgotten Man?
I think what we were thinking of is Chapter 13 - Black Tuesday Again…the markets/bonds plummeting. It was August 1937.
| 204 |
Kenneth Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:58:31am |
re: #153 Leonidas Hoplite
I was referring to the drop in US stock market… which means, although the DOW has only dropped 50% since last summer, we’ve still got time to break the record of -84% drop established in the Great Depression.
| 205 |
Vicious Babushka Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:58:35am |
re: #33 MandyManners
I HOPE EVERYONE WHO REFUSED TO VOTE FOR MCCAIN BECAUSE HE WASN’T CONSERVATIVE ENOUGH IS FUCKING HAPPY NOW!
I hope all the Jews who voted for Obama because they didn’t want their friends to think they’re “racist” are fucking happy now!
| 206 |
SlartyBartfast Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:58:43am |
re: #170 jaunte
One woman I work with is still celebrating the fact that she’ll get a tax break.
She has the blinders welded on.
Share this with her…Obama “Tax Cut” Doesn’t Exist.
I wanted to share quickly what I found out when I had my taxes prepared last week. The man that prepared my taxes for me cautioned me to watch out for my tax cut. He said, and you may want to adjust your withholding to take that back away, because the tax rate tables for next year when preparing taxes are not changing. So I could possibly owe my tax cut back to the government next year.
I’m still looking into this. It seems sadly plausible…
| 207 |
J.S. Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:58:47am |
O no! The Zero is talkin’ “economy” and “health care.”
| 208 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:58:57am |
re: #189 CyanSnowHawk
That’s on pace for an under 6500 close. Unless trading controls step in first.
O wants a sustained free-fall. Applying brakes, even if temporarily, would only let people catch their breath and see him for the Socialist fraud he is.
| 209 |
CommonCents Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:59:00am |
re: #159 bolivar
Nope, the money you are not paying now will be paid when you do your taxes. Heard this on Limbaugh Friday and am waiting for somebody to confirm it. If true it needs to be broadcast loud and clear. They can take their lies and stuff them up their smelly butts.
Oh, that makes me feel better, because FARUQ ABDEL DAMOOCHER in the Gaza Strip doesn’t have to pay a damn cent now or later. This is sooo asinine.
| 210 |
kansas Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:59:15am |
| 212 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:59:22am |
| 213 |
Afrocity Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:59:36am |
re: #187 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Too cool. Make low payments. Gonna be a teensy tiny debt in a few months.
I can only afford $200 a month. I always end up owing taxes for some reason and the stimulus tax breaks wont help me that much. No kids, no home, professional so I am not the poster child for government aid.
I am pretty depressed. (sigh)
I need to figure out a way to do better for myself.
401k was hit pretty bad.
| 214 |
Kenneth Mon, Mar 2, 2009 9:59:36am |
re: #178 Afrocity
Just watch out for the the interest rates to shoot up, which may happen in 6 to 12 months.
| 217 |
MandyManners Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:00:25am |
Instead, the economic crisis, as it did for Franklin D. Roosevelt, will serve as a stepping stone to a radical shift in the relationship between the people and their government. It will bind Americans to their government in ways not experienced since the New Deal. This tectonic shift, if successful, will be equal to the forces of public authority set in motion by Lyndon Johnson’s Great Society. The Obama presidency is going to be a radical presidency.
Barack Obama is proposing that the U.S. alter the relationship between the national government and private sector that was put in place by Ronald Reagan and largely continued by the presidencies of Bill Clinton and the Bushes. Then, the private sector led the economy. Now Washington will chart its course.
Mr. Obama was clear about his intention. “Our economy did not fall into this decline overnight,” he said. Instead, an “era” has “failed” to think about the nation’s long-term future. With the urgency of a prophet, he says the “day of reckoning has arrived.” The president said his purpose is not to “only revive this economy.”
In fact, people would probably coronate Mr. Obama if he merely revived the Dow Jones Industrial Average. The Dow’s fall since the Sept. 14 collapse of Lehman Brothers and sale of Merrill Lynch to Bank of America has eviscerated the net wealth of Americans across all incomes. Many are in the most dispirited state in their lifetimes.
Yesterday, the post-Obama Dow lost another percentage point. No matter. In his worldview, “short-term gains were prized over long-term prosperity.” His speech did include a plan to address the market crisis. It consists of a program to support consumer and small-business loans; a mortgage refinancing mechanism; and the “full force of the government” to restart bank lending. Mr. Obama delivered that last element with a rather crude pistol-whipping of the nation’s bankers and CEOs, thousands of whom have been operating their companies in a responsible, productive way.
This was just the prelude. Notwithstanding the daily nightmares of the economic crisis, now is the time to “boldly” rebuild the nation’s “foundation.” The U.S. budget he released today isn’t just a budget. “I see it as a vision for America — as a blueprint for our future.” With it, Mr. Obama becomes the economy’s Architect-in-Chief.
SNIP
| 218 |
Vicious Babushka Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:00:35am |
re: #151 Honorary Yooper
Pam really needs to get a day job.
What’s she qualified to do, other than pole dancing?
| 219 |
jaunte Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:00:42am |
re: #206 SlartyBartfast
The coming rise in energy costs is going to wipe out any tax ‘break.’
| 220 |
avanti Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:00:56am |
| 221 |
CLLRusso Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:01:05am |
re: #114 wiffersnapper
It’s like the scariest roller coaster ever, it keeps freefalling!
Wow, all the way back to you to find an on topic comment. Regarding the stock market free fall, Obama maniac is apparently sleep to the fact that millions of us are retired and our portfolios are now in the toilet. Thank goodness one of my kids is a greedy banker making big bucks and assures me she will not let me starve and my house is paid for.
I’ve decided to email each of my Dem legislators daily with the report of my retirement funds loss. I doubt it will get anyone’s attention. How on earth does anyone stop this? I am getting very depressed and my broker calls and says it will come back, we are in strong stuff, and to stay away from sharp objects in the meantime!
| 222 |
Occasional Reader Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:01:09am |
re: #200 FloridaAnole
It was Hirohito and Adolf Hitler that got us out of the Great Depression.
As I’ve said before on these pages, I don’t agree with characterizing our entry into the War as “ending” the Great Depression. It just changed it into something worse (for a while). Sure, we suddenly had “full employment”, but that was because we conscripted much of our labor force and sent them to live in mortal peril. If someone had proposed that as a peacetime cure for the Depression, they’d have been tossed into an insane asylum.
| 223 |
nyc redneck Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:01:12am |
re: #218 Alouette
What’s she qualified to do, other than pole dancing?
LOL, that’s gonna leave a mark.
| 224 |
Golem Akbar Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:01:33am |
| 225 |
Jetpilot1101 Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:01:36am |
re: #197 Erik The Red
I think he needs to find some traction and just keep the seat warm until 2012.
I disagree with you on this simply because ANY traction he gets will be exploited to get him reelected. He needs to utterly fail and let the rest of us free market capitalists sift through the carnage and move forward. While he can do an immense amount of damage, when the pendulum swings back to the right, I firmly believe that much of the damage enacted into law will be repealed. 20 years from now, we all need to look back on the Obama years and with absolute certainty declare him the WORST president; worse then Jimmy Carter.
| 226 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:01:38am |
re: #207 J.S.
O no! The Zero is talkin’ “economy” and “health care.”
Oh joy, down both go, in all the flaming glory possible.
| 227 |
yma o hyd Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:01:57am |
re: #185 kansas
Happy Days
[Link: www.breitbart.com…]
Oh yecchhh!
They resemble a bunch of teenagers who’re partying every day, while the parents are away.
| 228 |
vagabond trader Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:01:58am |
Don’t despair, the new “Green” economy will restore our/someone’s prosperity.
////
| 229 |
Catttt Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:02:12am |
re: #171 Dianna
Yes, she does. I wonder if she ever proof-reads?
My guess is that wouldn’t help - she just doesn’t know any better.
| 230 |
Leonidas Hoplite Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:02:24am |
re: #203 subsailor68
I think what we were thinking of is Chapter 13 - Black Tuesday Again…the markets/bonds plummeting. It was August 1937.
Yikes. Thanks for looking that up! I think…
| 231 |
Jack Burton Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:02:47am |
re: #153 Leonidas Hoplite
The worst year for the stock market was 1932 - I beleive the worst year for the Great Depression came later. 1936 or 1937…can someone check their copy of Forgotten Man?
The Great Depression was actually 2 different Stock Market crashes, the 1929 crash, and a 1937 crash. The stock market, but not the economy in general, recovered from 1932 to 1937 (much like it did from 2003 to 2007) and then crashed again.
| 232 |
dentate Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:02:50am |
re: #178 Afrocity
I just made my monthly payment on my student loan to the US Dept. Of Education. The only debt I have.
Thanks America for sending me to college and graduate school.
Helping to subsidize education for those who qualify academically is a good thing that creates more productive citizens. Paying loans back is a good thing (took me till I was 45 to repay mine, but I did, every penny). Problem is that the US government is now subsidizing failure and has little or no hope of ever getting repaid.
| 234 |
Dianna Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:02:55am |
re: #206 SlartyBartfast
I’m still looking into this. It seems sadly plausible…
Suggestion: Go to IRS.gov and look for their news on tax tables.
| 235 |
Diamond Bullet Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:03:00am |
You know, life is strange. I’m of New England extraction with various post-grad degrees, all of which should scream “liberal”. Yet when the One got elected, I took him at his socialist word and went out and bought some home defense firearms (thank you, VA), and filled the basement with C-rations. I also re-doubled my efforts at work while all my liberal friends floated around on clouds and took the week off for the Inauguration. Now they’re all getting fired and/or learning their future pensions are vanishing into the ether. I’m not happy my friends are suffering, but it’s hard to not notice that THEY VOTED FOR IT. I wonder if any of them will realize what they’ve done, or whether I’ll see them in 2011 warming their hands over burning garbage cans and still blaming Bush for it.
| 236 |
gmsc Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:03:03am |
A few stats:
Baby Boom years: 1940-1964
People born in 1940 can collect Social Security at age: 65 and 6 months
People born in 1941 can collect Social Security at age: 65 and 8 months
People born in 1942 can collect Social Security at age: 65 and 10 months
People born in 1943-1954 can collect Social Security at age: 66
So, we’re already in the 4th year of Baby Boomers collecting Social Security. Between the high taxation, baby boomers retiring, the relaxed loan standards and a spend-happy Congress and president, we’re in for a perfect storm of financial troubles.
| 237 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:03:05am |
| 238 |
J.S. Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:03:18am |
He’s introducing Bob Dole? Yeah, now that’s cha-cha-change! (you can’t believe in).
| 239 |
J.D. Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:03:20am |
re: #210 kansas
Why does D.L. Hughly have any journalistic credibility? Isn’t he a racist comedian?
Simply being on CNN gives him journalistic credibility?.
re: #212 Walter L. Newton
Good.
I was just listening to the Limbaugh speech from last Thursday and so far, I like it.
| 240 |
latingent Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:03:38am |
Class envy and income redistribution. I`m very familiar with this. Thats when I move my Mom in Law in to my brand new home to help her with her bills and then my sisters in law take all the money shes supposed to be saving `because they cant make it` on their own. The trickle down theory. No difference. In the end i should just take my earnings and give it to them directly.
| 241 |
subsailor68 Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:03:39am |
re: #231 ArchangelMichael
The Great Depression was actually 2 different Stock Market crashes, the 1929 crash, and a 1937 crash. The stock market, but not the economy in general, recovered from 1932 to 1937 (much like it did from 2003 to 2007) and then crashed again.
Yep! That’s the Chapter 13 in “The Forgotten Man” that I referenced for Leonidas above.
| 242 |
Kenneth Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:03:43am |
re: #173 Shr_Nfr
Hungary is in bad shape too. The problem for Western Europe is that their banks, especially German, Austrian & Swiss institutions, have huge exposure to east European debt. When the east Europeans default on those debts, the banks collapse. Which is why the EU decision not to bail out the east is so stupid.
| 243 |
vagabond trader Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:04:20am |
re: #214 Kenneth
Already happening with credit cards.
| 244 |
MandyManners Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:04:21am |
re: #207 J.S.
O no! The Zero is talkin’ “economy” and “health care.”
What did Sebelius do to Kansas?
| 245 |
J.D. Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:04:51am |
| 246 |
Conservative in Liberal Hands Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:05:12am |
It must be getting really bad… Now their Laying off Lawyers
Lawyers out of work? The revolution starts in 5… 4… 3… 2… 1…
/Out of work Personal Injury Attorney
| 247 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:05:14am |
re: #242 Kenneth
Hungary is in bad shape too. The problem for Western Europe is that their banks, especially German, Austrian & Swiss institutions, have huge exposure to east European debt. When the east Europeans default on those debts, the banks collapse. Which is why the EU decision not to bail out the east is so stupid.
Once again as bad as things are here in the US, the rest of the world is much much worse off.
| 248 |
freedombilly Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:05:37am |
The President is now talking about the economy and health care. For those of you not listening or watching I can sum it up for you:
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH
| 249 |
Dianna Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:05:39am |
re: #229 Catttt
My guess is that wouldn’t help - she just doesn’t know any better.
That is a very sad thought.
| 250 |
J.D. Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:05:44am |
re: #237 FurryOldGuyJeans
Finally someone tries speaking the truth no one wants to hear.
Michael Steele just went down a notch in popularity as far as I’m concerned.
| 251 |
avanti Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:05:45am |
re: #237 FurryOldGuyJeans
Finally someone tries speaking the truth no one wants to hear.
I’m very impressed with Steele. He knows that he has to move the party away from the far right pundits that have shot the GOP in the foot over and over.
He needs to be the voice of the GOP, not the ditto heads.
| 252 |
midwestgak Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:05:50am |
I’m going to watch All My Children today. It’s more stable than the DOW. In a month the story line and characters will be the same.
| 253 |
debutaunt Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:06:09am |
re: #178 Afrocity
I just made my monthly payment on my student loan to the US Dept. Of Education. The only debt I have.
Thanks America for sending me to college and graduate school.
Finally! A thank you! You’re very welcome and please make us proud.
| 254 |
soxfan4life Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:06:20am |
re: #244 MandyManners
What did Sebelius do to Kansas?
Coming next year, federal tax returns will be paid in IOU’s to finance Stimulus part 4.
| 255 |
jcm Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:06:26am |
re: #217 MandyManners
DOW August 28, 2008, the date of the Acceptance speech.
11,718.18
Now.
6,828.05
-4890.13 since the coronation.
| 256 |
SlartyBartfast Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:06:29am |
| 257 |
Erik The Red Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:06:52am |
re: #225 Jetpilot1101
I disagree with you on this simply because ANY traction he gets will be exploited to get him reelected. He needs to utterly fail and let the rest of us free market capitalists sift through the carnage and move forward. While he can do an immense amount of damage, when the pendulum swings back to the right, I firmly believe that much of the damage enacted into law will be repealed. 20 years from now, we all need to look back on the Obama years and with absolute certainty declare him the WORST president; worse then Jimmy Carter.
Make no mistake I know he will go down as worse than peanut. I just hope we and our kids are not put into the ground by 44.
| 258 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:07:03am |
re: #243 vagabond trader
Already happening with credit cards.
Almost makes me happy my credit is bad enough that I don’t get those scam pre-approved credit card offers.
| 259 |
godfrey Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:07:08am |
The Budget Reveals the liberal Obama
He is no Tony Blair, ideologically rootless, as I had previously suspected. He is a conviction politician: a bold progressive liberal. Yet his outreach to Republicans is no sham; his civility, I think, is not a front. He respects people who disagree with him, is capable of liking them, and is always willing to listen – but then stays true to his beliefs. This is a rare and devastating combination.For years in the US, the Democratic left, despite a surfeit of brilliant minds, has neutered itself with its own rage. The fixed expression of progressive liberalism has been anger and contempt – with perplexity at its lack of political success mixed in for comic effect. Cometh the hour, cometh the man. Amid an economic crisis, with capitalism under fire and the country looking to government for answers, the liberal left finally has a leader with brains, who shares its convictions, yet is as friendly and as likeable to the politically uncommitted as anyone could wish – so appealing, in fact, that the party almost chose somebody else to lead it.
Whether Mr Obama will be good for the country remains to be seen. We can already be sure that he is conservatism’s worst nightmare.
| 260 |
Wendya Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:07:32am |
re: #60 avanti
There is a lot of capital sitting it out, waiting to steal some stock and they’ll jump in before it drops to 6000 and they’ll make mad make money on the upside in a year or two.
It’s a matter of trust and confidence. With Obama, we have neither.
| 261 |
Kenneth Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:07:38am |
re: #247 FurryOldGuyJeans
Most of the rest, but not all. India & Brazil won’t do too badly in the next while.
| 262 |
Salem Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:07:43am |
Steele hasn’t done shit for Conservatism and he never will and anyone who thinks the RNC picked him for any any non-cynical non-pandering-to-race reason is gullible.
| 263 |
Wishing Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:07:43am |
Question: Don’t these legislators have money in the market? Arent they feeling this too? If not, where DO they put their retirement funds?
| 264 |
opinionated Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:07:56am |
It’s my fault.
They said McCain was clueless about the economy and that if I voted for him the market would crash.
I voted for him.
| 266 |
subsailor68 Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:08:17am |
re: #235 Diamond Bullet
I’m not happy my friends are suffering, but it’s hard to not notice that THEY VOTED FOR IT.
You’re a bit more forgiving that I am right now. I look at “friends” who were crowing about voting for Obama/Hope/Change and it’s hard for me not to want to smack them.
Through either willful ignorance or laziness, they’ve put you, me - all Americans - at risk. Our jobs, our investments, our retirement, our hard work, and our dreams - all in disarray.
The fact that they’re also in the dumper with us does not make me feel better.
| 267 |
brookly red Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:08:27am |
re: #263 Wishing
Question: Don’t these legislators have money in the market? Arent they feeling this too? If not, where DO they put their retirement funds?
in the freezer.
| 268 |
samsgran1948 Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:08:30am |
re: #87 Rexatosis
instead of focusing their wrath on Rush Limbaugh and other irrelevencies.
Rush serves the same purpose for the Dems that Israel serves for the Arab tyrants — a deflection of attention from the real situation.
| 269 |
Leonidas Hoplite Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:08:32am |
re: #263 Wishing
Question: Don’t these legislators have money in the market? Arent they feeling this too? If not, where DO they put their retirement funds?
They count on other ways of ‘making’ money.
| 270 |
soxfan4life Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:08:41am |
re: #263 Wishing
Question: Don’t these legislators have money in the market? Arent they feeling this too? If not, where DO they put their retirement funds?
Why do you think we are bailing out AIG again? Must protect their retirement income.
| 271 |
gmsc Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:08:41am |
On Sep. 28, 2008, 0bama overtook McCain in the presidential polls for what would be the last time. At the time, the DJIA was in the 11,000s.
As I write this, I’m looking at a DJIA of 6,824.46. In other words, since Sep. 29, 2008, the DJIA has lost almost 40% of its value, and may reach that number today.
I’m going to make shirts with the DJIA charts on it, with the caption, “Worst. President. Ever.”
| 272 |
Occasional Reader Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:08:44am |
re: #265 buzzsawmonkey
Cash for the hogsheads, cash for the demijohns.
It’s different that it was.
No it ain’t! No it ain’t!
| 273 |
J.S. Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:08:46am |
It’s for all the “people of good will” to recognize that “the path we are on is unsustainable” (Obama quotes). Yeah, well, we’re all waiting for the Zero to become a “person of good will.” And, I’m waiting…
| 274 |
nyc redneck Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:08:48am |
re: #250 J.D.
Michael Steele just went down a notch in popularity as far as I’m concerned.
i agree,
why disparage someone who really inspires so many people?
at a time like this.
rush has a talent and it should not be dismissed so rudely.
| 275 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:08:58am |
re: #250 J.D.
Michael Steele just went down a notch in popularity as far as I’m concerned.
Did the opposite for me. Time Rush was punctured for being a pompous windbag and blowhard. His public persona, especially his recent support for Creationism, is beyond the pale.
| 276 |
pittrader1988 Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:09:01am |
re: #233 taxfreekiller
This may be the costliest tax ever. Tax production of energy. How does that run through the economy?
| 277 |
vagabond trader Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:09:01am |
re: #258 FurryOldGuyJeans
I only have one for necessity and they upped my interest 5% for no reason.Same with other people I know.You are better off without them
| 278 |
pink freud Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:09:05am |
re: #237 FurryOldGuyJeans
Finally someone tries speaking the truth no one wants to hear.
Truth? What truth is that?
| 281 |
opinionated Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:09:35am |
Yo Yo’s go down AND up.
I wish this was yo yo like.
| 282 |
RaiderDan Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:09:41am |
And meanwhile, the Associated Press speaks truth to power with more hard-hitting, accountability journalism about The One.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D96M09BO0&show_article=1
Fiddling while Rome burns.
Can you imagine the headlines if George W. Bush or John McCain did this while the stock market tanked?
/spit
| 283 |
Dianna Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:09:57am |
I’m going back to work. This is too hard to take.
| 284 |
J.S. Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:10:12am |
She’s a govenor of the Sunflower State…ah, yes, rainbows, sunflowers, and unicorns.
| 285 |
Leonidas Hoplite Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:10:14am |
re: #276 pittrader1988
This may be the costliest tax ever. Tax production of energy. How does that run through the economy?
Badly.
| 286 |
jcm Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:10:21am |
re: #260 Wendya
It’s a matter of trust and confidence. With Obama, we have neither.
The thing the market hates the most is uncertainty.
The future of capitalism in this country is uncertain with the current power structure in DC.
Investors require a stable political backdrop that doesn’t threaten to change the rules dramatically and without notice.
| 287 |
So? Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:10:38am |
If you think the stock market dropping is bad, read this.
And who was the LGFer who said this planet could easily sustain 50 billion people?
Sheer lunacy.
| 288 |
Erik The Red Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:10:41am |
re: #275 FurryOldGuyJeans
Did the opposite for me. Time Rush was punctured for being a pompous windbag and blowhard. His public persona, especially his recent support for Creationism, is beyond the pale.
Sorry missed that. Has Rush drunk the ID kool aide? Please say it is not true.
| 289 |
vagabond trader Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:10:46am |
re: #263 Wishing
Their official “retirement” is guaranteed by you and I, aka taxpayers. Everything else is probably offshore.
| 291 |
lawhawk Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:11:03am |
re: #195 Rexatosis
RE #33 Mandymanners
Unfortunately “South Park” has it right. Elections are usually a choice between a “turd sandwich” and a “giant douche.” If you are waiting for a filet you’ll be waiting forever. One’s got to assess the candidate’s positions and figure out if the “turd sandwich” has enough fiber in it to do you some good or if the “giant douche” will really clean you up rather than clean you out. Our problem as a nation is too many people who understand their choice is between a “turd sandwich” and a “giant douche” refuse to vote and cede the choice to a bunch of dimwits who think the sh*t in the “turd sandwich” doesn’t stink and the “giant douche” is really champagne.
I held my nose but I chose.
Usually it’s the lesser of two evils. This time around, it was the evil of two lessers. The markets are down and will continue to go down as they digest what this Administration is going to do to small businesses and they were talking about this at the airport yesterday - that the health insurance provisions are going to kill small business and do the opposite of what was “intended” which means that the Democrats are going to foist still more government health care on people - and limit actual choice and private health care coverage will slowly disappear.
| 292 |
avanti Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:11:20am |
re: #274 nyc redneck
i agree,
why disparage someone who really inspires so many people?
at a time like this.
rush has a talent and it should not be dismissed so rudely.
He inspires the base, but pisses off the rest, and you need more then the base to win and Steele knows it.
| 293 |
jaunte Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:11:24am |
Here’s a link to the new tax tables, and some happy face spin from the IRS:
IR-2009-13, Feb 21, 2009
WASHINGTON ― The Internal Revenue Service today released new withholding tables that will result in more take-home pay this spring for millions of American workers.
The new tables incorporate the new Making Work Pay credit, one of the key tax provisions included in the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 that became law earlier this week.
“For most taxpayers, the additional credit will automatically start showing up in their paychecks this spring,” said IRS Commissioner Doug Shulman. “Since employers and payroll companies will handle this change, people typically won’t need to take any additional action. The IRS will continue working to implement this and other provisions of the new law as quickly as possible.”
The new withholding tables, along with other instructions related to the new tax law, will be incorporated in new Publication 15-T. This publication will be posted to this Web site next week and mailed to more than 9 million employers in mid-March. The IRS asks that employers start using these new tables as soon as possible but not later than April 1. Most workers will see a boost in their take-home pay soon thereafter.
[Link: www.irs.gov…]
| 294 |
newsjunkie_ky Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:11:31am |
re: #284 J.S.
She’s a govenor of the Sunflower State…ah, yes, rainbows, sunflowers, and unicorns.
And, the 0 needed a teleprompter to introduce a cabinet member. How pathetic.
| 296 |
Erik The Red Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:11:44am |
re: #290 taxfreekiller
Should any one care, NOTICE,,,
TAXFREEKILLER
Just down dinged , poster Avanti.for the record
That is a first tfk///
| 297 |
pittrader1988 Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:11:45am |
White House sees unemployment peaking at 8.1%. Wish we were playing cards in Vegas. I am all in on unemployment going above 10% for sure.
In 2011-12, when O is campaigning for re-election, it will likely be right around 9%. He will cite the rise and blame it on Bush, and the drop to only 9% as progress.
The Iraq War added to the deficit, a pull out will be subtracted from the deficit. It’s like paper profits.
Talk about smoke and mirrors.
| 298 |
fish Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:11:51am |
| 299 |
Leonidas Hoplite Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:11:56am |
| 300 |
Occasional Reader Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:11:58am |
re: #282 RaiderDan
And meanwhile, the Associated Press speaks truth to power with more hard-hitting, accountability journalism about The One.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D96M09BO0& show_article=1
Fiddling while Rome burns.
Can you imagine the headlines if George W. Bush or John McCain did this while the stock market tanked?
/spit
As I mentioned on a previous thread, my favorite AP “accountability journalism line from that piece has got to be:
The flurry of entertaining is in keeping with the Obamas’ promise to make the White House a more open place for everyone.
Even when The One entertains himself with lavish parties with top stars, in the middle of an economic crisis, He’s doing the right thing. As always.
| 301 |
kansas Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:12:14am |
re: #244 MandyManners
What did Sebelius do to Kansas?
The best thing she is doing is leaving. Really pro-abortion, which bothers me because there is a really late term clinic in this state run by a Doc named Tiller, whom she welcomed to the Governors Mansion, and she shut down the coal electric power plants out in no where because of the “environment.” Her replacement was head of the local Republicans in my county and converted to Dem. That’s been popular here because of the severe right shift, creation and all that, but he seems like a middle of the roader to me.
| 302 |
bolivar Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:12:26am |
I have all my money in Mutual Funds (CGM Focus, Contrafund mainly) and am seriously thinging about dumping most of it and going to bonds. I have lost so much already that having some stability is looking very refreshing right now. Any thoughts?
| 303 |
gmsc Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:12:30am |
DJIA
Mar. 3, 2008: 12258.90
Mar. 2, 2009: 6,824.46 (at this writing)
If the DJIA slid as many points in the current year as it has the past year, the DJIA would begin next March at 1390.02!
| 304 |
Erik The Red Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:12:51am |
re: #292 avanti
He inspires the base, but pisses off the rest, and you need more then the base to win and Steele knows it.
Expand the base. Fuck playing to the MFM.
| 305 |
nyc redneck Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:12:51am |
re: #292 avanti
He inspires the base, but pisses off the rest, and you need more then the base to win and Steele knows it.
we’ll see.
at the rate O is going, we could run anyone and win.
| 306 |
FloridaAnole Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:12:55am |
re: #222 Occasional Reader
The point is that the statist New Deal peacetime programs did nothing to end the Great Depression. The economy recovered briefly during the mid 1930’s due to an inadvertent increase in the money supply by the Federal Reserve, but then declined abruptly, since at that time Keynes was God and nobody understood the role of the rate of growth in the money supply on the economy. The rate of growth of the money supply during the war fueled the great Post War recovery. (cf. Milton Friedman, A Monetary History of the United States).
| 307 |
Honorary Yooper Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:13:01am |
| 308 |
J.D. Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:13:14am |
re: #274 nyc redneck
i agree,
why disparage someone who really inspires so many people?
at a time like this.
rush has a talent and it should not be dismissed so rudely.
Did you hear his speech? Limbaugh’s?
| 309 |
Afrocity Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:13:19am |
re: #262 Salem
Steele hasn’t done shit for Conservatism and he never will and anyone who thinks the RNC picked him for any any non-cynical non-pandering-to-race reason is gullible.
Sure because being Black is Michael Steele’s only skill set. He brings nothing else to the table. /
| 310 |
yenta-fada Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:13:28am |
re: #221 CLLRusso
It took me quite a while to figure out that my broker is hardly a good financial advisor. Anyone who makes their living by keeping me IN THE MARKET is not a detached observer. If you don’t stay in the game, the broker doesn’t take home any commissions.
| 311 |
midwestgak Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:13:29am |
| 312 |
Occasional Reader Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:13:43am |
re: #295 buzzsawmonkey
Whaddaya talk? Whaddaya talk? Whaddaya talk?
Monorail! Monorail!
/whoops, wrong one
Off to lunch, through the driving snow.
| 313 |
pittrader1988 Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:14:00am |
re: #302 bolivar
Depends on your age, if you need the money anytime soon. IF you are in for the long haul, say 10-20 years or so, don’t sell. Add to your long position.
If you need to cash in in the next 4 years. Sell.
| 314 |
pink freud Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:14:15am |
re: #292 avanti
He inspires the base, but pisses off the rest, and you need more then the base to win and Steele knows it.
He (Rush) doesn’t attempt to cater to all while slipping and sliding around trying to find a “popular” position on which to stand. He doesn’t lick the end of his finger and wave it in the air to see which ways the winds are blowing.
| 315 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:14:24am |
And in the meantime, Governor Ritter (D-Colorado) is on the radio right now, talking about how he is raising vehicle registrations, removing the property tax breaks for seniors who have been in their homes for over 10 years, new energy taxes and so on.
And he is fucking HAPPY about it.
This is a governor who will be getting almost 2 billion from the stimulus.
| 316 |
nyc redneck Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:14:32am |
re: #294 newsjunkie_ky
And, the 0 needed a teleprompter to introduce a cabinet member. How pathetic.
he can’t do anything w/out the prompter.
that says a lot abt. him.
| 317 |
jaunte Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:14:32am |
re: #311 midwestgak
Looks like pork is back on the menu everywhere.
| 318 |
So? Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:14:34am |
re: #299 Leonidas Hoplite
These things aren’t a problem if you just cull the population.
Which population? Man or animal?
| 319 |
Researcher...MO Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:14:46am |
re: #258 FurryOldGuyJeans
You have bad credit you’re happy with too? My bad credit was the result of mistakes made years ago and never corrected, we have a mortgage and otherwise we live on a cash basis, have for years, I never fixed it because no one would want it, ha!
| 320 |
yma o hyd Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:14:52am |
re: #242 Kenneth
Hungary is in bad shape too. The problem for Western Europe is that their banks, especially German, Austrian & Swiss institutions, have huge exposure to east European debt. When the east Europeans default on those debts, the banks collapse. Which is why the EU decision not to bail out the east is so stupid.
Thing is - Germany has been keeping the EU afloat since its inception, money-wise.
Thus a huge number of EU members ahve regarded the EU like a welfare cash cow. Its teh same mentality which keeps people screaming for the government instead of getting off their backsides and doing things for themselves.
Works if there is enough money to share - doesn’t work if there isn’t.
I’m still grateful that Maggie did refuse to be lured into joining the Euro, and that she isnisted on not paying what the Eurocrats wanted us to pay.
| 321 |
newsjunkie_ky Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:14:54am |
re: #292 avanti
He inspires the base, but pisses off the rest, and you need more then the base to win and Steele knows it.
If you don’t have the base, the rest don’t add up to squat.
| 322 |
So? Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:14:56am |
re: #311 midwestgak
“Herrmann said that up to 8,000 boars live in the German capital.”
In DC too.
LOL!
| 323 |
nyc redneck Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:15:01am |
| 325 |
Wendya Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:15:04am |
re: #251 avanti
He needs to be the voice of the GOP, not the ditto heads.
Oh, you mean tell people what they’re supposed to think? He’s not the DNC chairman, you know.
| 326 |
Catttt Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:15:20am |
re: #146 Golem Akbar
Ahem…let’s not knock cleavage…ahem.
That depends on the cleavage, and hers is not all that she seems to think it is. Let’s just say cleavage might have been the wrong word. More like grandcanyonage.
| 327 |
Leonidas Hoplite Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:15:29am |
re: #318 So?
Which population? Man or animal?
The population ‘problems’ you referenced in your link.
| 328 |
Wishing Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:15:32am |
re: #270 soxfan4life
Why do you think we are bailing out AIG again? Must protect their retirement income.
Gotcha.
They are vile.
| 329 |
abaleh Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:15:35am |
re: #231 ArchangelMichael
The Great Depression was actually 2 different Stock Market crashes, the 1929 crash, and a 1937 crash. The stock market, but not the economy in general, recovered from 1932 to 1937 (much like it did from 2003 to 2007) and then crashed again.
So should we expect a World War in a couple of years?
| 330 |
avanti Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:15:36am |
re: #290 taxfreekiller
Should any one care, NOTICE,,,
TAXFREEKILLER
Just down dinged , poster Avanti.for the record
Good work, you have me in the minus 600’s and I think I get a cookie at -1000.:)
| 331 |
subsailor68 Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:15:51am |
re: #310 yenta-fada
It took me quite a while to figure out that my broker is hardly a good financial advisor. Anyone who makes their living by keeping me IN THE MARKET is not a detached observer. If you don’t stay in the game, the broker doesn’t take home any commissions.
Ain’t that the truth! My wife’s the executive director of our senior center, and keeps getting calls about getting the trust back into the market. She finally said to the broker….’Fine, so long as you can guarantee putting us into investments that will go up…and put that in writing.”
Funny…no calls recently.
| 333 |
fish Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:15:57am |
re: #183 MandyManners
I never believed anyone who said the O would govern from the center. I still have no idea why they would even think that was likely.
| 334 |
dentate Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:16:17am |
re: #315 Walter L. Newton
And in the meantime, Governor Ritter (D-Colorado) is on the radio right now, talking about how he is raising vehicle registrations, removing the property tax breaks for seniors who have been in their homes for over 10 years, new energy taxes and so on.
And he is fucking HAPPY about it.
This is a governor who will be getting almost 2 billion from the stimulus.
He’s got nothing on our Ahhhnold, who has already done all that and more. Copycat!
| 335 |
Silvergirl Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:16:31am |
re: #98 jorline
“Barack / 08”
“Broke / 09”A bumper sticker I saw the other day.
Put that on the bumper and hang a tea bag from the rear view mirror.
| 337 |
Golem Akbar Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:16:36am |
re: #326 Catttt
That depends on the cleavage, and hers is not all that she seems to think it is. Let’s just say cleavage might have been the wrong word. More like grandcanyonage.
Even better!
| 338 |
Honorary Yooper Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:16:51am |
re: #312 Occasional Reader
Monorail! Monorail!
/whoops, wrong one
Off to lunch, through the driving snow.
Got a song just for then,
| 339 |
gmsc Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:16:56am |
re: #305 nyc redneck
we’ll see.
at the rate O is going, we could run anyone and win.
Inanimate Carbon Rod for President!
| 340 |
J.S. Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:17:08am |
re: #318 So?
the article mentioned “rabbit murders”…(really…i could say something here, but I best bite my tongue.)
| 341 |
newsjunkie_ky Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:17:15am |
re: #302 bolivar
I have all my money in Mutual Funds (CGM Focus, Contrafund mainly) and am seriously thinging about dumping most of it and going to bonds. I have lost so much already that having some stability is looking very refreshing right now. Any thoughts?
Don’t, it will come back. It was almost this bad in ‘97. If you don’t need your money now, leave it alone.
| 343 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:17:36am |
re: #282 RaiderDan
Be it ever so crumbly
Their’s no place like Rome
Nero, he was the ruler
And the palace was his home
But he loved to play with matches
And a fire he yearned
So he burned Rome to ashes
And fiddled while it burned.
-Bugs Bunny
| 344 |
Gus Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:17:38am |
6,828.37
-234.56 (-3.32%)
Real-time: 1:16PM EST
Falling and falling. Hey, let’s increase Federal spending to record levels while we’re at it! //
I wonder how long the brainwashed Obama voters are going to stand for this. No doubt they’ll just blame “the man.”
| 345 |
bolivar Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:17:41am |
re: #313 pittrader1988
Depends on your age, if you need the money anytime soon. IF you are in for the long haul, say 10-20 years or so, don’t sell. Add to your long position.
If you need to cash in in the next 4 years. Sell.
I am 54 so no need to cash in right now but, I fear the whole thing going bust. I have NO confidence in the messiah and he just flat scares the hell out of me.
| 346 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:17:41am |
re: #319 Researcher…MO
You have bad credit you’re happy with too? My bad credit was the result of mistakes made years ago and never corrected, we have a mortgage and otherwise we live on a cash basis, have for years, I never fixed it because no one would want it, ha!
Mine comes mostly from an ex-wife and minimally from a couple of mistakes on my part.
| 347 |
yenta-fada Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:17:49am |
re: #302 bolivar
If you are interested, read my #156 for some conservative (in my opinion) suggestions.
There is always intrinsic value in REAL things. e.g. a bottle of good scotch, 20 cans of tuna, comfortable shoes and an extra pair of them. Bonds are another paper financial asset over which you have NO control. They only look conservative. Will they retain purchasing power for you?
| 348 |
Racer X Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:17:53am |
Obama can TRY to blame this on Bush, but the numbers do not lie.
Theo Spark -Economic Report
| 349 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:18:04am |
re: #343 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
There’s…
damn.
| 350 |
newsjunkie_ky Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:18:12am |
| 351 |
gmsc Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:18:19am |
re: #312 Occasional Reader
Monorail! Monorail!
/whoops, wrong one
Off to lunch, through the driving snow.
| 352 |
martdod Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:18:27am |
I assume this is the ” Hope and Change” all the sheeple voted for.
| 353 |
Kenneth Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:18:52am |
A good interview with Niall Ferguson on his book The Accent of Money
(skip ahead to the 27:15 minute mark)
Key point: the credit crisis was created by the sub-prime mortgage bubble and the highly leveraged securitization of those loans.
| 354 |
Silvergirl Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:18:57am |
re: #270 soxfan4life
Why do you think we are bailing out AIG again? Must protect their retirement income.
Even CNN readers are against the latest AIG bail. As of now, their online poll on the front page is 89% against.
| 355 |
avanti Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:19:04am |
re: #304 Erik The Red
Expand the base. Fuck playing to the MFM.
How do you intend to do that with a polarizing figure like Rush. Steele has some appeal to expand the base, Rush is the poster boy for a negative view of the right by those outside the base, and some inside.
| 356 |
So? Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:19:18am |
re: #327 Leonidas Hoplite
The population ‘problems’ you referenced in your link.
re: #343 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Be it ever so crumbly
Their’s no place like Rome
Nero, he was the ruler
And the palace was his home
But he loved to play with matches
And a fire he yearned
So he burned Rome to ashes
And fiddled while it burned.-Bugs Bunny
After Einstein, Bugs was a genius.
| 357 |
FloridaAnole Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:19:29am |
re: #309 Afrocity
Sure because being Black is Michael Steele’s only skill set. He brings nothing else to the table. /
I think it’s because Steele is a McCain Republican (he was closely allied with the McCain campaign), and as we know, McCain and his inner circle don’t have much use for conservatives, unfortunately.
| 358 |
Pigtown Water Dog Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:19:31am |
I just called Senator Ben Cardin’s office. The young man who answered the phone laughed when I said I was a capitalist and did not want to be a socialist. Laughed at me. *reaching for tissue*
| 359 |
godfrey Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:19:45am |
re: #353 Kenneth
Even internationally? That is, the sub-prime mortagage bubble in the US alone had that kind of distributed effect?
| 360 |
Racer X Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:19:46am |
The stock market is all about investor confidence in how business - capitalism - will do in the future.
It don’t look good.
| 361 |
CLLRusso Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:19:52am |
re: #264 opinionated
It’s my fault.
They said McCain was clueless about the economy and that if I voted for him the market would crash.
I voted for him.
But honestly, who else did you have to vote for?
I voted for him too. But I worked for Romney and his plain talk and good sense wasn’t good enough for the bleeping GOP. Not to mention he would have been the best in this economy we could have had. So I guess next time you people will listen to me!
| 362 |
Salem Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:20:15am |
re: #309 Afrocity
Sure because being Black is Michael Steele’s only skill set. He brings nothing else to the table. /
If I’m wrong I’ll be delighted. But I’m not. It’s the RNC that’s to blame, as well as the Dems (the party of slavery, Jim Crow, Segregation, etcetera) who has used race to beat them into submission. The bewildered RNC responded with “You want a black man? Here you go!”
| 363 |
J.D. Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:20:18am |
re: #275 FurryOldGuyJeans
Did the opposite for me. Time Rush was punctured for being a pompous windbag and blowhard. His public persona, especially his recent support for Creationism, is beyond the pale.
Oh, no. I’m not going there……
| 364 |
Erik The Red Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:20:24am |
re: #344 Gus 802
6,828.37
-234.56 (-3.32%)
Real-time: 1:16PM ESTFalling and falling. Hey, let’s increase Federal spending to record levels while we’re at it! //
I wonder how long the brainwashed Obama voters are going to stand for this. No doubt they’ll just blame “the man.”
44 voters don’t have money in the market. They don’t give a shit. Stick it to the man. They have their social benefits.
| 365 |
Wishing Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:20:31am |
re: #354 Silvergirl
Even CNN readers are against the latest AIG bail. As of now, their online poll on the front page is 89% against.
It matters not: the King of Nothing could care less about his *base*. He will do what he damn well pleases, end of discussion.
| 366 |
So? Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:20:32am |
re: #360 Racer X
The stock market is all about investor confidence in how business - capitalism - will do in the future.
It don’t look good.
/What we need is another 43 billion people on this planet. That should solve the crisis.
| 367 |
newsjunkie_ky Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:20:47am |
re: #316 nyc redneck
he can’t do anything w/out the prompter.
that says a lot abt. him.
It sure does. Maybe fear he will just start quoting Marx, Ayers, Alinsky, et al.
| 368 |
Wendya Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:21:10am |
re: #344 Gus 802
No doubt they’ll just blame “the man.”
Obama will blame greedy investors and businessmen.
| 370 |
Racer X Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:21:52am |
re: #366 So?
You mean 43 billion new customers for your product right?
| 371 |
Wishing Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:22:01am |
re: #357 FloridaAnole
I think it’s because Steele is a McCain Republican (he was closely allied with the McCain campaign), and as we know, McCain and his inner circle don’t have much use for conservatives, unfortunately.
I heard Steele on the radio Friday morning, and he was furious with the McCain campaign pulling out of Michigan when it did. His comment: We have learned from that…
| 372 |
bolivar Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:22:02am |
Ok, you have got me convinced to hold for now. I am still very worried about our future. The country is in deep kimchee and a lot of them don’t even know it.
| 373 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:22:12am |
re: #362 Salem
Hi Salem! I disagree. Used to listen to Michael Steele quite a bit on the “Tony Snow” show.
Tony (a great judge, IMHO) had great aspirations for Mr. Steele. I am standing by the selection.
| 374 |
Gus Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:22:21am |
re: #368 Wendya
And private jet use.
Liberal Rule No. 215: When in doubt, blame someone or something else.
| 375 |
Leonidas Hoplite Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:22:30am |
re: #366 So?
/What we need is another 43 billion people on this planet. That should solve the crisis.
I sense a bit of sarcasm here. Are you of the opinion that fewer humans would ease our current distress?
| 376 |
yenta-fada Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:22:44am |
re: #341 newsjunkie_ky
Don’t, it will come back. It was almost this bad in ‘97. If you don’t need your money now, leave it alone.
If you notice the fine print on most financial contracts, they say “PAST performance is no guarantee of future returns”, or something like that. In your memory, were big banking stocks EVER almost penny stocks? Maybe this is a different ball of wax.
| 377 |
Erik The Red Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:22:44am |
re: #355 avanti
How do you intend to do that with a polarizing figure like Rush. Steele has some appeal to expand the base, Rush is the poster boy for a negative view of the right by those outside the base, and some inside.
I never said Steele was bad. But don’t write Rush off. Unless less he supports ID. Than fuck him and God help us.
| 378 |
tommygum Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:22:57am |
re: #33 MandyManners
I HOPE EVERYONE WHO REFUSED TO VOTE FOR MCCAIN BECAUSE HE WASN’T CONSERVATIVE ENOUGH IS FUCKING HAPPY NOW!
I never tire of reading that.
| 379 |
Golem Akbar Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:23:06am |
Does this mean that Newsweek was right, afterall?
| 380 |
vagabond trader Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:23:08am |
re: #367 newsjunkie_ky
He pretty much does that already, imho.
| 381 |
nyc redneck Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:23:09am |
rush is being attacked by the left because they know his ability to inspire people is a real threat to them. especially the way this country will begin to wake up and see what O is trying to do.
btw O targeted rush immediately when he took office.
pres. bush never did anything like this.
he wasn’t interested in alinsky’s rules for radicals.
| 382 |
dentate Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:23:14am |
re: #365 Wishing
It matters not: the King of Nothing could care less about his *base*. He will do what he damn well pleases, end of discussion.
Essence of socialism. The “vanguard of the proletariat” does not have to play by the rules it imposes on others.
| 383 |
zombie Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:23:16am |
Stock Market Yo-Yo Watch
Stock Market Yo-Yo Watch?
Charles, for it to qualify as a yo-yo, it’s got to go both up and down. But all I’m seeing is down, down, down.
So you got the title backwards. It should have been:
Stock Market Oy-Oy Watch
| 384 |
Kenneth Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:23:25am |
re: #320 yma o hyd
The UK won’t have the same problem as the Euro-zone countries will, but they will face a currency crisis. Still the UK does have more direct control over its economy than any one Eurozone country, so they might cope better. But sooner or later, the EU will pay for their mistakes. The question is whether it’s better to do so now while their banks are still solvent, or to wait and pay a much stiffer price later. It seems they’ve chosen the latter.
| 385 |
subsailor68 Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:23:27am |
re: #353 Kenneth
A good interview with Niall Ferguson on his book The Accent of Money
(skip ahead to the 27:15 minute mark)
Key point: the credit crisis was created by the sub-prime mortgage bubble and the highly leveraged securitization of those loans.
I need to read that book. It’s my understanding that the CRA/sub-prime mortgage bubble is the underlying factor. After all, MBS and CRS products would have been okay if the underlying mortgages had been sound.
It’s also interesting that there are really only five states that were trashed: California, Arizona, Nevada, Florida, and Michigan. So now, just like the Federal Emergency Relief Act during the Depression, folks in 45 states are forced to pick up the tab for these five.
| 387 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:23:51am |
re: #363 J.D.
Oh, no. I’m not going there……
Then don’t. I’m not apologizing for being an independent thinker who finds Public Figure Rush to be less than salutary to Conservatism.
| 389 |
FloridaAnole Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:23:54am |
re: #311 midwestgak
“Herrmann said that up to 8,000 boars live in the German capital.”
In DC too.
And over 8,000 boors live in our capital.
| 390 |
So? Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:23:55am |
| 392 |
Afrocity Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:24:26am |
re: #362 Salem
If I’m wrong I’ll be delighted. But I’m not. It’s the RNC that’s to blame, as well as the Dems (the party of slavery, Jim Crow, Segregation, etcetera) who has used race to beat them into submission. The bewildered RNC responded with “You want a black man? Here you go!”
I don’t agree. The sad thing is this is what the liberals are saying about the choice of Steele. I would expect more from LGF-ers. The left is making fun of Jindal and Steele calling it RNC affirmative action plan. That is disgraceful.
| 393 |
J.D. Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:24:42am |
| 394 |
Golem Akbar Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:24:47am |
How long before people say enough and turn their backs on the Democrats?
| 395 |
Wendya Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:25:00am |
re: #381 nyc redneck
rush is being attacked by the left because they know his ability to inspire people is a real threat to them. especially the way this country will begin to wake up and see what O is trying to do.
btw O targeted rush immediately when he took office.
pres. bush never did anything like this.
he wasn’t interested in alinsky’s rules for radicals.
It’s quite common for some people on the right side of the political spectrum to follow the lead of the left, thinking they too will have a Sally Fields moment.
| 396 |
pink freud Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:25:01am |
re: #377 Erik The Red
I never said Steele was bad. But don’t write Rush off. Unless less he supports ID. Than fuck him and God help us.
As far as I know, the only thing Rush has done that could be construed as “supporting creationism” is to say on air to give Bobby Jindal a chance. If there’s more, I would be interested in knowing exactly what that assertion is based on. Anyone?
| 397 |
gmsc Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:25:11am |
re: #383 zombie
Stock Market Yo-Yo Watch?
Charles, for it to qualify as a yo-yo, it’s got to go both up and down. But all I’m seeing is down, down, down.
So you got the title backwards. It should have been:
Stock Market Oy-Oy Watch
Down, down, down, gravity…
| 398 |
Silvergirl Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:25:15am |
| 399 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:25:18am |
re: #28 Honorary Yooper
I feel like I’m watching a train wreck happening on the NYSE floor.
If this crap keeps up, we may be looking at either Obamadepression or Obamastagflation.
Obamble; the term is Obamble.
| 400 |
Shr_Nfr Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:25:21am |
re: #242 Kenneth
As I stated earlier, the numbers I am hearing are that Great Britain needs another $2 tn for its banking system and the EU continental banks need around $18 tn in order to get reasonably re-capitalized. That is a year’s GDP during normal times. These times are not normal. There is a lot of stuff going very wrong. KKR announced a horrid loss today on writedowns and KKR Financial (KFN) did much the same. Even BRK is going to hurt going forward. A lot of their stuff is private consumer oriented things. I am not sure that Warren is discounting them enough in his current valuations. Given that BRK does not pay a dividend, you are playing greater sucker if you think that you will get a stream of income from it. New taxable money should head toward closed end muni bond funds. They are all selling at a discount to NAV and at least pay you a dividend. The dividend is federally tax exempt except for the private activity bonds which may hit you if you are in AMT land. Some of the dividends are state tax exempt, but the majority will not be.
| 401 |
MandyManners Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:25:42am |
I can’t take this shit anymore. I’m going for take-out. bbl
| 402 |
pink freud Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:26:02am |
re: #387 FurryOldGuyJeans
Then don’t. I’m not apologizing for being an independent thinker who finds Public Figure Rush to be less than salutary to Conservatism.
Then you obviously didn’t listen to his speech Saturday.
| 403 |
Researcher...MO Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:26:11am |
re: #346 FurryOldGuyJeans
Sorry to hear it. On the other hand I wish I could blamw someone else but alas, it was my own fault. However, when ID theft started to become a huge issue, I decided that I really didn’t need credit cards. Boyfriend and I neither of us have great credit, but with a huge down payment and a modest trust, we bought our home and manage to make the payments. Silly, but I worry about our credit rating going UP! Everything we own but the house is paid for! And we have a beautiful home on a lake, several vehicles including a classic Corvette (see my avatar), a boat, nice furniture etc. We’re broke most of the time, but we eat well :)
| 404 |
Afrocity Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:26:13am |
re: #394 Golem Akbar
How long before people say enough and turn their backs on the Democrats?
May need a foreign crisis to bring em’ around.
| 405 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:26:16am |
In the qualified good news department, personal savings rate is up to 5%; that’s something, anyway.
| 406 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:26:28am |
re: #401 MandyManners
Tofu for me. If they can make it General Tso’s, that’d be great.
| 407 |
Kenneth Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:26:33am |
re: #359 godfrey
Yes, because the loans were securitized by selling them on international markets. The Europeans, Japanese & Chinese bought the derivatives. The US debt bubble was largely paid for by Asia savings. The globalization of financial markets made the collapse of US real estate prices ripple round the world.
| 408 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:26:38am |
This market is a yo-yo with a dead cat attached.
| 410 |
avanti Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:27:19am |
| 411 |
gregg Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:27:19am |
re: #141 Dianna
Agree 100%. The market has lost confidence in him. No clear direction on how he’s going to handle the bad banks and where he does provide clear direction (raising taxes, massive government programs), the market doesn’t like it.
| 412 |
J.S. Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:27:20am |
re: #365 Wishing
CNN had on earlier someone who was a retired economist (with the FDIC), and he claimed that it was all due to “Mark to market accounting” — and that this law came into effect back in 1997 — and has resulted in the current crisis — they had a similar accounting thingy back in the 1930s — and the retired FDIC fellow claimed that what’s needed is to repeal, get rid of, Mark to Market accounting. (frankly, I’m clueless with respect to “Mark to Market” accounting.) Wiki article here.
| 413 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:27:22am |
re: #402 pink freud
Then you obviously didn’t listen to his speech Saturday.
Then you would be absolutely WRONG.
| 414 |
Honorary Yooper Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:27:38am |
re: #392 Afrocity
I don’t agree. The sad thing is this is what the liberals are saying about the choice of Steele. I would expect more from LGF-ers. The left is making fun of Jindal and Steele calling it RNC affirmative action plan. That is disgraceful.
I’ve noticed that. I disagree with Jindal on ID and exorcism, but to claim he is part of the GOP affirmative action plan is just the type of disgusting bigotry we’re seen time and time again from the Left.
| 415 |
reloadingisnotahobby Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:27:42am |
re: #408 FurryOldGuyJeans
Thanks for that visual!
LOL
Now I’m really dizzy!
| 416 |
Wishing Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:27:45am |
re: #362 Salem
I think you are dead wrong: Steele is very qualified for the job, and I certainly believe he has big plans and will implement them. To suggest that he was elected as a *token* is beneath you. GOP doesnt work that way.
| 418 |
OldLineTexan Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:28:23am |
re: #383 zombie
Stock Market Yo-Yo Watch?
Charles, for it to qualify as a yo-yo, it’s got to go both up and down. But all I’m seeing is down, down, down.
So you got the title backwards. It should have been:
Stock Market Oy-Oy Watch
Heh. Or Oy Vey! Watch.
/
| 419 |
Shr_Nfr Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:28:31am |
re: #384 Kenneth
The British Banks are in horrid shape. There was a lot of real estate speculation there. The cabbies were running around muttering “Buy to let, mate, that’s where it is.” Buying a lot of crud in Spain and Bulgaria too.
| 420 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:28:32am |
OT…for fun…
Eye halve a spelling chequer
It came with my pea sea
It plainly marques four my revue
Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.
Eye strike a key and type a word
And weight four it two say
Weather eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh.
As soon as a mist ache is maid
It nose bee fore too long
And eye can put the error rite
Its rare lea ever wrong.
Eye have run this poem threw it
I am shore you please two no
Its letter perfect awl the weigh
My chequer tolled me sew.
Author? Dunno.
| 421 |
OldLineTexan Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:28:43am |
re: #406 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Tofu for me. If they can make it General Tso’s, that’d be great.
General Tso-Fu
| 422 |
dentate Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:28:52am |
re: #392 Afrocity
I don’t agree. The sad thing is this is what the liberals are saying about the choice of Steele. I would expect more from LGF-ers. The left is making fun of Jindal and Steele calling it RNC affirmative action plan. That is disgraceful.
This is why we need a viable third choice. The track record of third parties is abysmal, but these are extraordinary times. A party based on rational thinking and rational policies, personal responsibility and accountability, fiscal conservatism and small government, does not exist at this time.
| 423 |
J.D. Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:29:00am |
re: #387 FurryOldGuyJeans
Then don’t. I’m not apologizing for being an independent thinker who finds Public Figure Rush to be less than salutary to Conservatism.
I didn’t even think you needed to apologize, and I certainly didn’t ask you to do so.
| 424 |
Catttt Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:29:15am |
re: #337 Golem Akbar
Even better!
You remind me of the old guy who said “I don’t care if they’re not real - I like them anyway” about Pamela Anderson Lee’s fab plastic knockers.
You might like this, if you like grandcanyonage - Sherry Glaser, right, and her monsterous upper half (torture!) - Not safe for work.
Don’t know who the skinnyminnie on the left is.
| 425 |
So? Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:29:16am |
re: #375 Leonidas Hoplite
I sense a bit of sarcasm here. Are you of the opinion that fewer humans would ease our current distress?
No, not at all. A few days ago on another thread, I forget the topic. Somebody posted that with today’s technology we could easily feed 50 billion people on Planet Earth. He received 3 plus dings in a matter of 5 minutes. I found that statement ludicrous, to which I replied: Well, there’s more to planet “stress” than just food production. Imagine 50 billion people flushing their toilets twice a day as just one small example.
The sarcasm was intended for those who believe we could support 50 billion people right now.
| 426 |
wahabicorridor Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:29:48am |
re: #412 J.S.
CNN had on earlier someone who was a retired economist (with the FDIC), and he claimed that it was all due to “Mark to market accounting” — and that this law came into effect back in 1997 — and has resulted in the current crisis — they had a similar accounting thingy back in the 1930s — and the retired FDIC fellow claimed that what’s needed is to repeal, get rid of, Mark to Market accounting. (frankly, I’m clueless with respect to “Mark to Market” accounting.) Wiki article here.
I believe the current version of mark-to-market was instituted as a response to the Enron debacle.
| 427 |
Salem Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:29:56am |
re: #373 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Hi Salem! I disagree. Used to listen to Michael Steele quite a bit on the “Tony Snow” show.
Tony (a great judge, IMHO) had great aspirations for Mr. Steele. I am standing by the selection.
Well, okay. My beef is with the RNC and the idea that there even would be a Conservative element remaining without Rush Limbaugh or that they’ll be a credible talk-show host with a grasp of the left’s diabolical plans. If it’s time to throw Rush under the bus, fine. He pretty much screwed himself with Jindal. But when he’s gone people will suddenly become starkly aware of his role in contemporary politics and the void left behind by his absence.
| 428 |
Vicious Babushka Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:30:10am |
re: #300 Occasional Reader
Even when The One entertains himself with lavish parties with top stars, in the middle of an economic crisis, He’s doing the right thing. As always.
| 429 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:30:24am |
re: #415 reloadingisnotahobby
Thanks for that visual!
LOL
Now I’m really dizzy!
Not even the infamous dead cat bounce is making this market go up.
| 430 |
doppelganglander Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:30:24am |
re: #277 vagabond trader
I only have one for necessity and they upped my interest 5% for no reason.Same with other people I know.You are better off without them
I got that notice this weekend. I’ll be paying it off and closing that account.
| 432 |
bolivar Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:31:28am |
re: #392 Afrocity
I don’t agree. The sad thing is this is what the liberals are saying about the choice of Steele. I would expect more from LGF-ers. The left is making fun of Jindal and Steele calling it RNC affirmative action plan. That is disgraceful.
ID malarkey notwithstanding I like Jindal immensely. Steele was a guy I cheered for when he got the job. I want the right to appeal to ALL right thinking people and to have no preconceived notions about bigotry and prejudice. I have no malice to the messiah for being black - I have malice for the terrible things he and his ilk plan to and are doing to my wonderful nation. That makes me sad and mad. That looks like a candidate for rotating heading doesn’t it?
| 433 |
midwestgak Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:31:38am |
re: #397 gmsc
Down, down, down, gravity…
I’ve got the DOW, DOW, DOW, DOW down in my heart.
Down in my heart, down in my heart.
I’ve got the DOW, DOW, DOW, DOW down in my heart.
Down in my heart to stay.
| 434 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:31:39am |
re: #427 Salem
Nothing to disagree with there. Well said.
| 435 |
Shr_Nfr Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:31:41am |
re: #412 J.S.
Mark to market impacts the capitalization of the banks and insurance companies. It forces them to pretend that their whole portfolio is for sale today and then makes them put down the market clearing price for the value. Since they have capital requirements that have to get met, a freefall decline in prices puts them below those capital requirements. To stay in business, they need new capital from someplace. Problem is, there is no new capital. Quite nasty really.
| 436 |
avanti Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:31:47am |
re: #394 Golem Akbar
How long before people say enough and turn their backs on the Democrats?
When the right does the same with the religious right and gives the voter a choice not tied to a theocracy.
| 437 |
Kenneth Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:32:07am |
re: #385 subsailor68
That’s about the size of it. The financial institutions were overly leveraged, but the jolt that brought down the house of cards was the collapse of the sub-prime mortgage market. Maybe something else might have done that, but I’m not sure anything else was as big a risk.
Interesting point Ferguson makes: Chimarica will live on. The tight relationship between US & Chinese financial institutions, based upon the mutual necessity of US & China for each other, means that the Chinese will continue to buy up US treasury bonds, if not as much as before. This explains the rather warm & gentle words Hillary murmured in Beijing two weeks ago. It’s in nobody’s interest to break up the marriage.
| 438 |
Silvergirl Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:32:14am |
| 439 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:32:25am |
re: #371 Wishing
I heard Steele on the radio Friday morning, and he was furious with the McCain campaign pulling out of Michigan when it did. His comment: We have learned from that…
I’m furious at McCain for only pretending to run for a lot of the campaign.
| 440 |
OldLineTexan Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:32:28am |
re: #429 FurryOldGuyJeans
Not even the infamous dead cat bounce is making this market go up.
Maybe this cat ain’t dead yet.
Maybe it has further to fall.
| 441 |
CLLRusso Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:32:30am |
re: #310 yenta-fada
It took me quite a while to figure out that my broker is hardly a good financial advisor. Anyone who makes their living by keeping me IN THE MARKET is not a detached observer. If you don’t stay in the game, the broker doesn’t take home any commissions.
With most commissions paid on inception, except for the small yearly brokerage fee I have no idea how David makes any money now.
| 442 |
yma o hyd Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:32:39am |
re: #384 Kenneth
The UK won’t have the same problem as the Euro-zone countries will, but they will face a currency crisis. Still the UK does have more direct control over its economy than any one Eurozone country, so they might cope better. But sooner or later, the EU will pay for their mistakes. The question is whether it’s better to do so now while their banks are still solvent, or to wait and pay a much stiffer price later. It seems they’ve chosen the latter.
I’m glad you said the UK might cope better!
With the current leadership, that is Gord/NuLab, who have aggravated this crisis beyond belief I have my doubts. Yes, we’ve retained more control, but Gord and his chancellor are not controlling, they are riding us deeper into the sh*t every day.
Our only hope is an early election, this year. But then, Gord sees himself as saviour of the world, and won’t think of going before the next economic summit at the end of April, at the earliest.
Who knows how deep we’ll be in it by then!
| 443 |
Opinionated Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:33:00am |
re: #361 CLLRusso
It was an attempt at sarcasm.
This market is happening in reaction to Obama. Even if the ordinary crowd still supports the Socialist, the market is smart enough to know how much damage he is going to do to the economic system of this Nation and is responding accordingly by selling.
| 444 |
Erik The Red Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:33:14am |
| 445 |
vagabond trader Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:33:17am |
re: #430 doppelganglander
My friend called his company and haggled for them to restore the old rate for a lousy year. I suspect those with good credit will have to do this to stall the arbitrary increases.
| 446 |
zombie Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:33:48am |
The fundamental problem is that the EU and the US are trying to blend capitalism and socialism into the same economic system. But that can never succeed.
In real capitalism, everybody works (because they have to work, or starve), and as a result tremendous wealth is generated, and overall everybody is comparatively rich.
In real socialism, almost nobody works (or works enthusiastically, or does something actually useful), because the welfare state gives the incentive to sit round on your ass all day drawing “the dole” — and those few who are working are not responding to market demands, but instead ill-thought-out government dictates. And as a result, everybody is equally poor.
But what we have in the EU and (increasingly) in the US is a Frankensteinian blend of the two. So what ends up happening is that half the people work like hell, and the other half are supported by the first half. So the real workers have to work twice as hard, but feel twice the resentment. And we’ve reached the breaking point where the whole teratological system can’t sustain itself anymore.
We here think the solution to “go the full capitalism.” Obama thinks the solution is to plunge headfirst into a socialist system.
Problem is, he’s in control. And we’re on the sidelines.
| 447 |
reloadingisnotahobby Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:34:10am |
re: #429 FurryOldGuyJeans
We paid off everything but the mortgage so we could stash the income where it would do the most for us!
But where exactly would THAT BE!
It’s going to get far worse before it gets even a little better!
Depressing to say the least
| 448 |
J.S. Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:34:25am |
re: #435 Shr_Nfr
so it would be a good idea, then, to get rid of “mark to market” accounting? (sounds to me like a good idea…that’s superficially from someone without financial/economic training…) (they’re saying that the same accounting — mark to market — was used during the 1930s, and was a major contributor to the depression).
| 450 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:34:38am |
re: #445 vagabond trader
My friend called his company and haggled for them to restore the old rate for a lousy year. I suspect those with good credit will have to do this to stall the arbitrary increases.
I’ve actually noticed some rates going down. Maybe they figure if they lower the rates I’ll stop trying to pay off the cards. Too bad for them.
| 451 |
Nevergiveup Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:34:40am |
Well I don’t know about anyone else, but Obama is making dam sure I’ll never be able to retire.
| 453 |
Erik The Red Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:35:06am |
re: #417 taxfreekiller
tfk please get an avatar. You have made your colors.
| 454 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:35:28am |
re: #436 avanti
When the right does the same with the religious right and gives the voter a choice not tied to a theocracy.
McCain was Theocratic? Because most on the ‘right” voted for him this time out. As a matter of fact, the “religious right” didn’t!
| 455 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:35:29am |
Now Michigan is pimping for businesses by advertising on CNBC.
| 456 |
Wishing Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:35:36am |
re: #439 Kosh’s Shadow
I’m furious at McCain for only pretending to run for a lot of the campaign.
So was Steele….I think he will liven things up…
| 457 |
Bloodnok Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:35:59am |
re: #387 FurryOldGuyJeans
Then don’t. I’m not apologizing for being an independent thinker who finds Public Figure Rush to be less than salutary to Conservatism.
I agree. I like listening to the guy now and then, but his negatives with Independents and swing Dems outweigh his positives, IMO. He intends to be a polarizing figure and that’s exactly what he is. I think he does great work for the base, but there are more people in the middle-right or center (chased there by a few outdated or incorrect SoCon positions) than there was 20 years ago. We need to bring people over in order to win convincingly and the person to make that happen will never be Rush -no matter how much he makes me (one of the already converted) laugh.
| 458 |
jcm Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:36:02am |
re: #451 Nevergiveup
Well I don’t know about anyone else, but Obama is making dam sure I’ll never be able to retire.
You and me both…..
| 459 |
newsjunkie_ky Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:36:07am |
re: #376 yenta-fada
If you notice the fine print on most financial contracts, they say “PAST performance is no guarantee of future returns”, or something like that. In your memory, were big banking stocks EVER almost penny stocks? Maybe this is a different ball of wax.
Could be, if we don’t take Congress back and stop the 0. I do fear the damage may already be done.
| 460 |
Salem Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:36:11am |
re: #416 Wishing
I think you are dead wrong: Steele is very qualified for the job, and I certainly believe he has big plans and will implement them. To suggest that he was elected as a *token* is beneath you. GOP doesnt work that way.
Uh, they shouldn’t work that way. But they’ve been beaten with race again and again when it was never should have been their albatross to carry in particular. You honestly see Obama elected and Steele picked and figure it’s just a coincidence? This is just what I knew would happen if Obama was elected. And this is just the beginning. Sad…
| 461 |
vagabond trader Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:36:41am |
re: #436 avanti
wtf are you talking about? McCain was not a bible thumper and W, who was,didn’t suspend our right to worship or not.The Obama’s supposed religiosity is more concerning to me, beginning with the anti American Jew hating church.
| 462 |
Gus Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:36:43am |
| 463 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:36:45am |
WHOA! CBNC just announced a program to help make “your money Obama resistant”!
| 464 |
Leonidas Hoplite Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:36:48am |
re: #455 FurryOldGuyJeans
Now Michigan is pimping for businesses by advertising on CNBC.
I wonder if the advertising dollars were part of the porkulus bill.
| 465 |
OldLineTexan Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:36:52am |
re: #451 Nevergiveup
Well I don’t know about anyone else, but Obama is making dam sure I’ll never be able to retire.
In my case, he’s getting help from my employer, my wife, and my kids.
/
| 466 |
Peacekeeper Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:36:54am |
Teratological Of abnormal growth or structure of a fetus or embryo.
BIG WORDS IS RIPPING US OFF!
| 467 |
Afrocity Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:36:57am |
re: #432 bolivar
ID malarkey notwithstanding I like Jindal immensely. Steele was a guy I cheered for when he got the job. I want the right to appeal to ALL right thinking people and to have no preconceived notions about bigotry and prejudice. I have no malice to the messiah for being black - I have malice for the terrible things he and his ilk plan to and are doing to my wonderful nation. That makes me sad and mad. That looks like a candidate for rotating heading doesn’t it?
I may be wrong but to me Steele, Palin, Jindal all seem qualified for their jobs and had proven track records of success. The left trashes all three of them and marginalizes their accomplishments while uplifting the consummate empty suit - Barack Obama. Speeches does not make a great leader nor does being a community organizer. Obama fluffed his way to office on good looks, oratory and the appeal of a “historic moment”.
If I see tokenism I promise my fellow LGF’ers I will be the first to call it out.
I am not for afrimative action. It hurts everyone.
| 468 |
FloridaAnole Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:37:01am |
Steele, I think, fell into the Alinsky Rule trap laid by his interlocutor. He was mouisetrapped into explaining that he was head of the Republican party, not Rush. Steele IS head of the Republican Party; Rush is a leader of a certain large faction of Conservatism.
| 470 |
nyc redneck Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:37:45am |
re: #436 avanti
why are you attacking rush so much.
if you really thought he was going to be detriment to us,
you would remain silent.
lol, thanks for your “concern”
| 471 |
OldLineTexan Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:38:08am |
re: #454 sattv4u2
McCain was Theocratic? Because most on the ‘right” voted for him this time out. As a matter of fact, the “religious right” didn’t!
Heh. I also thought it was Obama running with a religious following (Messiah-King and AGW).
| 472 |
SummerSong Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:38:12am |
What the GOP Really Wants: Obama’s Autograph
[Link: news.yahoo.com…]
| 473 |
Wishing Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:38:14am |
re: #460 Salem
Uh, they shouldn’t work that way. But they’ve been beaten with race again and again when it was never should have been their albatross to carry in particular. You honestly see Obama elected and Steele picked and figure it’s just a coincidence? This is just what I knew would happen if Obama was elected. And this is just the beginning. Sad…
There were rumblings about Steele long before the election. If you think the GOP is hypocritical, what are you doing to change it?
| 474 |
Silvergirl Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:38:26am |
re: #365 Wishing
It matters not: the King of Nothing could care less about his *base*. He will do what he damn well pleases, end of discussion.
This is true. Sadly.
| 475 |
doppelganglander Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:38:30am |
re: #445 vagabond trader
My friend called his company and haggled for them to restore the old rate for a lousy year. I suspect those with good credit will have to do this to stall the arbitrary increases.
Mine’s not so great, but I think the real reason is that I use the card so seldom. I can call them and refuse the change, which means the card is invalid after a certain date (May, I believe). I will be allowed to pay it off under the existing terms. I’d really like to pay it off sooner since it’s really not a large amount.
| 476 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:38:47am |
re: #460 Salem
And this is just the beginning. Sad…
it would be sad if Steele wasn’t a qualified black man, i.e. Burris. In that he IS qualified, it makes picking him all all that much better
| 477 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:38:48am |
re: #454 sattv4u2
McCain was Theocratic? Because most on the ‘right” voted for him this time out. As a matter of fact, the “religious right” didn’t!
If anything McCain had one of the worst showings with the Religious Right in recent history.
| 478 |
vagabond trader Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:38:49am |
re: #450 Kosh’s Shadow
It’s to lull you into jacking up your bill, then wham! They know their consumer psychology.Best to pay them off, most certainly
| 480 |
stevieray Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:38:58am |
re: #108 Shr_Nfr
Europe is doing even worse than we are. Off around 5%. There are massive problems in the Eastern European countries that may blow a lot of their banks out of the water.
Late to the thread…. out shoveling snow…
You are correct — there is a wave of loan defaults heading toward the European banks, from both Eastern Europe and South America. And Europe isn’t handling it well at all.
I hear something on the radio yesterday — Germany said it won’t help prop up Eastern Europe’s economy. That decision could be the worst one yet — if those economies collapse, the Euro collapses with them.
| 482 |
Gus Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:39:16am |
re: #471 OldLineTexan
Heh. I also thought it was Obama running with a religious following (Messiah-King and AGW).
Obamaism is a religion all itself.
| 483 |
reloadingisnotahobby Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:39:17am |
re: #469 buzzsawmonkey
So your ” Jonesin”?
Then “Dow Jonesing” must really suck!
I feel ya~!
| 484 |
subsailor68 Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:39:19am |
re: #437 Kenneth
I’m definitely buying that book! I hope he’s right about Chimerica. I can’t imagine what would happen if that market dried up.
Ironic isn’t it that China recognizes the value of free markets, and Putin warns against socialism? It’s an upside down world.
| 485 |
Salem Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:39:20am |
Republicans are going to be quarreling over religion and race now while Dems divide the loot. Neither issue matters to me in the least so I guess I may as well stay out of it.
| 486 |
FrogMarch Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:39:28am |
re: #446 zombie
…So what ends up happening is that half the people work like hell, and the other half are supported by the first half. So the real workers have to work twice as hard, but feel twice the resentment….
Bingo.
The socialist/democrats realize that if they can keep the percentage of their supporters on the dole, and that percentage is higher than those on the working there ass off side, they can continue to win elections.
| 488 |
gmsc Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:39:53am |
As I write this, the Dow Jones is at 6,815.86, lower than the stock market’s closing price on January 17, 1997.
0bama has already taken the stock market back 12 years!
| 489 |
OldLineTexan Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:39:53am |
re: #463 FurryOldGuyJeans
WHOA! CBNC just announced a program to help make “your money Obama resistant”!
Eat it now and live off your fat for four years?
| 490 |
VioletTiger Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:39:57am |
re: #439 Kosh’s Shadow
I’m furious at McCain for only pretending to run for a lot of the campaign.
And also for not taking the opportunity to show America the REAL reasons for the housing market problems/mortgage problems, and for not opposing the ballot, and etc.
| 491 |
turn Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:40:00am |
re: #425 So?
No, not at all. A few days ago on another thread, I forget the topic. Somebody posted that with today’s technology we could easily feed 50 billion people on Planet Earth. He received 3 plus dings in a matter of 5 minutes. I found that statement ludicrous, to which I replied: Well, there’s more to planet “stress” than just food production. Imagine 50 billion people flushing their toilets twice a day as just one small example.
The sarcasm was intended for those who believe we could support 50 billion people right now.
Maybe not now, but it won’t be long IMO. Many people tend to believe technology is advancing in a linear fashion rather than the exponential curve it is actually on. I believe 50 billion will be sustainable in the not to distant future given the advances we will make in molecular nanotechnology for instance.
[Link: www.crnano.org…]
| 492 |
yma o hyd Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:40:15am |
re: #419 Shr_Nfr
The British Banks are in horrid shape. There was a lot of real estate speculation there. The cabbies were running around muttering “Buy to let, mate, that’s where it is.” Buying a lot of crud in Spain and Bulgaria too.
Buying in Spain - thats mostly pensioners who wanted to spend their last years in a warm climate.
They are in a terrible state now, with the ££ nearly at equity with the Euro, their savings in stocks and bonds in the toilet, and the interest rate on cash now at 1%.
Gord and the Bank of England could have intervened to keep that property bubble under control, by raising interest rates a few years back - but no! Even though personal debt was rising to unprecedented levels, the low interest rates gave the whole bubble an extra kick.
Thanks, Gord, it was you, as chancellor of the exchequer, who got us into this mess - and now you’re doing your worst to get us in even deeper.
Bring on the next election!
| 493 |
Nevergiveup Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:40:17am |
Durban 2 draft statement: Israel’s Palestinian policy is crime against humanity
[Link: www.haaretz.com…]
But I thought Obama was going to work all this out?
| 494 |
Kenneth Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:40:26am |
re: #400 Shr_Nfr
re: #419 Shr_Nfr
The stuff of nightmares. I just saw my retirement nest egg drop by 25% since July. I still have time to build it back up before I retire, but my dream of retiring at 55 is gone. It’s much worse for pensioners on fixed incomes. They are in a terrible situation. And yet the scoundrels who stole the money got voted back into Congress, and even the White House.
The situation in Eastern Europe could get very bad: they don’t have a long history of political stability or the rule of law over there. They do have a long history of civil violence when things get tough economically. Watch for riots and governments to collapse. Ooops, already happening…
| 495 |
Gus Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:41:08am |
re: #463 FurryOldGuyJeans
WHOA! CBNC just announced a program to help make “your money Obama resistant”!
Safe deposit box! Actually, your own personal safe to keep it away from Treasury agents.
| 496 |
So? Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:41:19am |
Just received this important memo, thought I’d share.
Employee Memo:
Due to the current financial situation caused by the slowdown
of the economy, Management has decided to implement a scheme to
put workers of 40 years of age and above on early retirement..
This scheme will be known as RAPE (Retire Aged People Early).
Persons selected to be RAPED can apply to management to be
eligible for the SHAFT scheme (Special Help After Forced
Termination). Persons who have been RAPED and SHAFTED will be
reviewed under the SCREW program (Scheme Covering Retired
Early Workers). A person may be RAPED once, SHAFTED twice and
SCREWED as many times as Management deems appropriate.
Persons who have been RAPED can only get AIDS (Additional
Income for Dependants & Spouse) or HERPES (Half Earnings for
Retired Personnel Early Severance). Obviously persons who
have AIDS or HERPES will not be SHAFTED or SCREWED any further
by Management.
Persons who are not RAPED and are staying on will receive as
much SHIT (Special High Intensity Training) as possible.
Management has always prided itself on the amount of SHIT
it gives employees. Should you feel that you do not receive
enough SHIT, please bring to the attention of your Supervisor.
They have been instructed to give you all the SHIT you can handle.
Sincerely,
The Management
| 499 |
VioletTiger Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:41:39am |
re: #440 OldLineTexan
Maybe this cat ain’t dead yet.
Maybe it has further to fall.
Cat are being maligned and Cattula is starting to get a cattitude….
| 501 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:41:58am |
re: #451 Nevergiveup
Well I don’t know about anyone else, but Obama is making dam sure I’ll never be able to retire.
He’ll have a new chain of retirement homes and golf courses, called “Soylent Greens”.
| 502 |
Leonidas Hoplite Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:42:14am |
re: #491 turn
Maybe not now, but it won’t be long IMO. Many people tend to believe technology is advancing in a linear fashion rather than the exponential curve it is actually on. I believe 50 billion will be sustainable in the not to distant future given the advances we will make in molecular nanotechnology for instance.
[Link: www.crnano.org…]
Buy land!
| 503 |
gonecamping Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:42:15am |
That deserves an upding.
Does RNC stand for Rhino National Committee now?
Quite frankly, the Republican Party is failing me, and has been doing so for some time now.
I want Fiscal Conservatism, not a bunch of pork.
I want secure borders, not a free ride for ILLEGAL ALIENS.
I want to be able to enjoy the fruits of MY hard work, not be egregiously taxed to give to lazy people with an entitlement mentality.
I want elected representatives to do as we desire instead of imposing thier view and agenda upon us.
I don’t agree with all Rush says, and yes he does have a big ego….so what! I’d rather listen to Rush hammer home the points that need to be made than listen to any Republican kiss Obama’s posterier and ignore the damage being done with the stimulus package and bloated budget.
Steele should be focusing on defeating Obama’s agenda instead of carrying water for Obama by bashing Rush….who is doing more about exposing what Obama is up to than the RNC is.
ps. I want a busness friendly environmenet so my carefully nurtured investments can thrive again instead of dwindling to even further.
re: #280 taxfreekiller
RNC
Michael SteeleThe RNC is tone deaf, and still lusting for Amnesty this very moment.
These old out of touch king makers must be put out to pasture.
Give them all Congressional medical and retirement pay and send them home. Much cheaper and we need to save the country, they are in the way.
| 504 |
rawmuse Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:42:52am |
re: #496 So?
That is not funny, truly. I am not laughing. The irony is gone.
| 505 |
Erik The Red Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:42:53am |
re: #470 nyc redneck
why are you attacking rush so much.
if you really thought he was going to be detriment to us,
you would remain silent.lol, thanks for your “concern”
I wish sometimes the right would blindly follow Rush like the left as asshaterly followed 44. We would not be in this situation if we could find another RR or someone that could draw the Conservatives together.
| 506 |
Nevergiveup Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:43:11am |
re: #488 gmsc
As I write this, the Dow Jones is at 6,815.86, lower than the stock market’s closing price on January 17, 1997.
0bama has already taken the stock market back 12 years!
But how come I felt a whole lot richer in 1997?
| 507 |
brookly red Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:43:41am |
re: #463 FurryOldGuyJeans
WHOA! CBNC just announced a program to help make “your money Obama resistant”!
I gave up on them years ago, but lately they seem like they are starting to come around… but it is to early to tell.
| 508 |
zombie Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:43:42am |
re: #487 taxfreekiller
Zombie
Only trouble is Obama jumped headfirst into an empty pool, the Democrats stole all the water ($) over the last 50 years with their
over spending (aided by Bush and McCain) so,, he landed on his poor
little flat earth, climate change, welfare to the max,,, head.
Agrred. Which is why I personally think we are indeed headed for a capital-D Depression.
You can’t fund your socialist fantasies with an empty piggy bank. Socialist/communist economies basically take the accumulated weath of the pre-existing capitalist system that they overthrew, and coast along on that wealth until it is all used up. Then people kick out the socialists and the cycle starts all over again. That’s what happened in Russia, it’s what happened in Cuba, and it’s what’s gonna happen in Venezuela. Etc.
Poor Obama seized the reins at the exact moment we already ran out of money. Awww — too bad!
| 509 |
Afrocity Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:43:48am |
re: #503 gonecamping
I am beginning to see why we lost the last election.
Take that any way you want to.
| 510 |
bolivar Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:43:48am |
re: #467 Afrocity
I may be wrong but to me Steele, Palin, Jindal all seem qualified for their jobs and had proven track records of success. The left trashes all three of them and marginalizes their accomplishments while uplifting the consummate empty suit - Barack Obama. Speeches does not make a great leader nor does being a community organizer. Obama fluffed his way to office on good looks, oratory and the appeal of a “historic moment”.
If I see tokenism I promise my fellow LGF’ers I will be the first to call it out.
I am not for afrimative action. It hurts everyone.
This is refreshing thinking. I applaud you educating yourself and know you will be a great asset in the future. We have a huge task ahead of us folks. The future is full of promise if we can just wrest power from the idjits before it is too late. Anytime after 2010 might just be so.
| 511 |
HippieforLife Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:44:03am |
re: #185 kansas
These people make me sick! The menu sounds great, maybe they can share a few scraps. After all, we paid for it!
| 512 |
Wendya Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:44:51am |
re: #484 subsailor68
Ironic isn’t it that China recognizes the value of free markets, and Putin warns against socialism? It’s an upside down world.
That’s the American left. Always followers, never leaders and generally way behind the curve.
| 513 |
midwestgak Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:44:52am |
| 514 |
turn Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:45:00am |
re: #446 zombie
“Problem is, he’s in control. And we’re on the sidelines.”
Are you serious? How much trouble could he possibly get this country into in just 4 years anyway?
/
I guess the question in my mind is whether O’s move toward socialism can ever be reversed.
| 515 |
VioletTiger Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:45:08am |
re: #45 kansas
Seriously, why is his approval rating staying up?
Strong Koolaid, not worn off just yet.
| 517 |
gmsc Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:45:27am |
The last time the Dow was at this level (January 17, 1997), Clinton was still president, and we were all watching this footage on the evening news:
| 518 |
avanti Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:45:34am |
| 519 |
J.D. Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:45:51am |
| 520 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:45:57am |
re: #507 brookly red
I gave up on them years ago, but lately they seem like they are starting to come around… but it is to early to tell.
I was just BRIEFLY watching to get an update on the markets. I was about to change the channels when I heard “…..Cramer will show how to make your money Obama resistant….”.
| 521 |
gmsc Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:46:11am |
re: #506 Nevergiveup
But how come I felt a whole lot richer in 1997?
Because we had a slick character in the White House. Now, there are no slick characters in the White House.
| 522 |
kansas Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:46:19am |
6,806.54
-256.39 (-3.63%)
Real-time: 1:45PM EST
| 523 |
jcm Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:46:21am |
re: #513 midwestgak
Beware - Eminent Domain.
Kelo definition of common good.
Land can be condemned to give to someone who will pay higher taxes on it.
| 524 |
So? Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:46:43am |
re: #491 turn
The font was too small, couldn’t read it. Kidding.
| 525 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:46:48am |
Humans evolution leads to creationism….
Humans may be primed to believe in creation
No matter what their religious beliefs, college-educated adults frequently agree with purpose-seeking yet false explanations of natural phenomena - finches diversified in order to survive, for instance.
“The very fact of belief in purpose itself might lead you to favour intelligent design,” says Deborah Kelemen, a psychologist at Boston University, who led the study
Kelemen has documented the same kind of erroneous thinking - called promiscuous teleology - in young children. Seven and eight-year olds agree with teleological statements such as “Rocks are jagged so animals can scratch themselves” and “Birds exist to make nice music”. These mistakes diminish as kids take more science classes and learn causal explanations for natural events.
| 527 |
Kenneth Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:47:08am |
re: #442 yma o hyd
China needs the US to buy her manufactured goods. There is no where near enough domestic demand in China to replace the US market. The US needs China to buy treasury bonds and thereby finance the deficit. It’s a marriage made at the bank.
Russia, meanwhile will create havoc, as they will benefit from a rise in energy prices.
| 528 |
Desert Dog Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:47:08am |
re: #508 zombie
Agrred. Which is why I personally think we are indeed headed for a capital-D Depression.
You can’t fund your socialist fantasies with an empty piggy bank. Socialist/communist economies basically take the accumulated weath of the pre-existing capitalist system that they overthrew, and coast along on that wealth until it is all used up. Then people kick out the socialists and the cycle starts all over again. That’s what happened in Russia, it’s what happened in Cuba, and it’s what’s gonna happen in Venezuela. Etc.
Poor Obama seized the reins at the exact moment we already ran out of money. Awww — too bad!
Apparently, not having any money is not slowing our President down one bit. We can always print more, borrow more, add more to the deficit. This spending is only beginning….
| 529 |
abaleh Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:47:11am |
re: #491 turn
Maybe not now, but it won’t be long IMO. Many people tend to believe technology is advancing in a linear fashion rather than the exponential curve it is actually on. I believe 50 billion will be sustainable in the not to distant future given the advances we will make in molecular nanotechnology for instance.
[Link: www.crnano.org…]
Since the World’s population is projected to peak at ~9 billion and then decline, it doesn’t really matter. The question is if we can sustain the same level of production with the working age population in decline.
Technological advances should be focused on production enhancement (robotics, AI), or else there will be a need for workers from the developing world.
| 530 |
Nevergiveup Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:47:19am |
Durban 2’ boycott hints that Obama ready for dialogue but won’t sell out
[Link: www.ynetnews.com…]
I wouldn’t bet the bank on that…urh…I guess betting the bank in an Obama administration doesn’t really mean all that much? Never mind.
| 531 |
turn Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:47:42am |
re: #502 Leonidas Hoplite
Buy land!
Actually this technology would allow mankind to have a much, much smaller footprint. Many articles have been written on this amongst the MNT crowd.
| 532 |
snowcrash Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:47:46am |
re: #516 Afrocity
Nina Eason is the one who gets me riled up.
| 533 |
vagabond trader Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:48:00am |
| 534 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:48:08am |
re: #467 Afrocity
I may be wrong but to me Steele, Palin, Jindal all seem qualified for their jobs and had proven track records of success. The left trashes all three of them and marginalizes their accomplishments while uplifting the consummate empty suit - Barack Obama. Speeches does not make a great leader nor does being a community organizer. Obama fluffed his way to office on good looks, oratory and the appeal of a “historic moment”.
If I see tokenism I promise my fellow LGF’ers I will be the first to call it out.
I am not for afrimative action. It hurts everyone.
Your assessments seem spot on to me.
| 535 |
FloridaAnole Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:48:09am |
re: #451 Nevergiveup
Well I don’t know about anyone else, but Obama is making dam sure I’ll never be able to retire.
I sure hope that won’t be the case. Though as things stand today, it looks like my monthly retirement will be about $400.00 a month, assuming a certain huge troubled national bank is still standing in the next few months and hasn’t been Franked and Obamaized out of existence.
| 537 |
jaunte Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:48:27am |
re: #525 Killgore Trout
Now we can start using “promiscuous teleology” as a critique in evolution threads.
| 538 |
jcm Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:48:37am |
re: #522 kansas
6,806.54
-256.39 (-3.63%)
Real-time: 1:45PM EST
EJECT!
EJECT!
EJECT!
Pop, fizzzile……
Ding, ding, ding….
Voice of bitchin’ Betty…. “ejection systems have been disabled, cuts in spending and The One requires we all go down together.”
| 539 |
Nevergiveup Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:48:47am |
re: #516 Afrocity
I wish Fox news would fire Kirsten
Maybe but I got a list a mile long before her name comes up….Geraldo, Shep, etc etc
| 540 |
VioletTiger Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:48:51am |
re: #60 avanti
There is a lot of capital sitting it out, waiting to steal some stock and they’ll jump in before it drops to 6000 and they’ll make mad make money on the upside in a year or two.
avanti,
Why do you say steal? Do you think it is wrong to make money?
| 541 |
zombie Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:48:52am |
I blame Al Gore. If he hadn’t invented the Internet, we wouldn’t have had the “Dot-Com Bubble,” and the stock market wouldn’t have gotten over-inflated and over-valued in the first place!
Basically, we’re reverting to pre-Dot-Com-Bubble stock-market levels. We’ll get down to, say, about 1995 levels. The things will settle down.
The last 14 years have been a fevered dream. We only just now are coming out of the coma.
| 543 |
Kenneth Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:49:23am |
re: #525 Killgore Trout
Humans evolution leads to creationism….
Humans may be primed to believe in creation
Kelemen has documented the same kind of erroneous thinking - called promiscuous teleology - in young children. Seven and eight-year olds agree with teleological statements such as “Rocks are jagged so animals can scratch themselves” and “Birds exist to make nice music”. These mistakes diminish as kids take more science classes and learn causal explanations for natural events.
“Wealthy people exist so that we can tax them” -BHO
| 544 |
Desert Dog Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:49:35am |
re: #538 jcm
EJECT!
EJECT!
EJECT!Pop, fizzzile……
Ding, ding, ding….
Voice of bitchin’ Betty…. “ejection systems have been disabled, cuts in spending and The One requires we all go down together.”
“Hey, why are we in this hand basket and where are we going?”
| 546 |
Gus Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:49:50am |
re: #533 vagabond trader
That land remains empty. Conservative judges voted aye on that one too.
*spit*
David Souter being the most notorious in that case. Or is that infamous.
George H.W. Bush appointee.
| 547 |
MacDuff Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:50:04am |
re: #446 zombie
The fundamental problem is that the EU and the US are trying to blend capitalism and socialism into the same economic system. But that can never succeed.
In real capitalism, everybody works (because they have to work, or starve), and as a result tremendous wealth is generated, and overall everybody is comparatively rich.
In real socialism, almost nobody works (or works enthusiastically, or does something actually useful), because the welfare state gives the incentive to sit round on your ass all day drawing “the dole” — and those few who are working are not responding to market demands, but instead ill-thought-out government dictates. And as a result, everybody is equally poor.
But what we have in the EU and (increasingly) in the US is a Frankensteinian blend of the two. So what ends up happening is that half the people work like hell, and the other half are supported by the first half. So the real workers have to work twice as hard, but feel twice the resentment. And we’ve reached the breaking point where the whole teratological system can’t sustain itself anymore.
We here think the solution to “go the full capitalism.” Obama thinks the solution is to plunge headfirst into a socialist system.
Problem is, he’s in control. And we’re on the sidelines.
BINGO! WE HAVE A WINNUH!
| 548 |
realwest Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:50:09am |
re: #468 FloridaAnole
You are absolutely correct about that. The Republican Party is NOT the Conservative Party - it tends to have a more Conservative Base than the Leftist Party does, but Rush isn’t popular with 25% of the Base, and is unpopular with 45% of Independents.
[Link: www.gallup.com…]
In point of fact Mr. Steele is correct; Rush is an entertainer and that’s all well and good (unless, as someone mentioned upthread, he is a creationist, because continually being tagged as the party of the Religious Right hurts Republicans in national and some Statewide elections). But Rush’s job is to make sure he has a big audience that appreciates him. And after reading his CPAC speech I applaud him mightily for that and hope he gains even more listeners. Mr. Steele’s job, unfortunately, is more difficult than coming up with witty or clever lines that a lot of folks will talk about around the office or at cocktail parties; Steele has to help the Republican Party WIN ELECTIONS. PERIOD.
I think that Steele walked into a trap with the Rush issue, but at least, from his perspective, answered it correctly: Rush is an entertainer and Steele’s job is to help the Republican Party win elections.
| 549 |
Erik The Red Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:50:09am |
re: #509 Afrocity
I am beginning to see why we lost the last election.
Take that any way you want to.
Gonecamping has just said what most Republicans really want. Small government and low taxes.0
| 550 |
Shr_Nfr Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:50:11am |
re: #446 zombie
Exactly. The total productivity of a country is its total output divided by its population. When you have people that choose not to work, they do not add to the numerator but add to the denominator. The productivity of the country declines. The standard of living in a country is more or less tied to its productivity. Government programs do not increase productivity. They remove money from one sector and give it to another. I am sure some bean counter someplace will say that building the bullet train to nowhere is an addition to GDP, but in the final analysis it isn’t. The money that was removed from people would have been spent in other places and had as large an impact.
| 551 |
pink freud Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:50:16am |
re: #509 Afrocity
I am beginning to see why we lost the last election.
Take that any way you want to.
Quite frankly, the Republican Party is failing me, and has been doing so for some time now.
I want Fiscal Conservatism, not a bunch of pork.
I want secure borders, not a free ride for ILLEGAL ALIENS.
I want to be able to enjoy the fruits of MY hard work, not be egregiously taxed to give to lazy people with an entitlement mentality.
I want elected representatives to do as we desire instead of imposing thier view and agenda upon us.
Conservative values, all. Which ones do you disagree with?
| 553 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:50:25am |
re: #533 vagabond trader
That land remains empty. Conservative judges voted aye on that one too.
*spit*
So after all the smoke and mirrors, fire and brimstone, the now empty land is generating no taxes. Simply Bizarro world.
| 554 |
jcm Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:50:34am |
re: #533 vagabond trader
That land remains empty. Conservative judges voted aye on that one too.
*spit*
Life, (nationalized heath care).
Liberty, (socialized)
Property, (taken)
| 556 |
SummerSong Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:51:00am |
| 557 |
zelnaga Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:51:16am |
re: #186 pittrader1988
I am a trader. Not difficult to see what happened to this market. Take a look at the chart of the S+P. In October, Obama overtook McCain in the polls. Look at the market since then.
Not to steal the “thunder” from Obama or anything, but what about the September bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers?
| 558 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:51:38am |
| 559 |
turn Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:52:12am |
re: #516 Afrocity
I wish Fox news would fire Kirsten
Really? She impressed me as not being as far to the left as many other liberals. Plus she ain’t so bad to look at either :.)
| 560 |
gmsc Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:52:21am |
re: #543 Kenneth
“Wealthy people exist so that we can tax them” -BHO
Thought for the day: If 0bama and Congress decided to raise the tax rate on people making $500,000/year or more to 100%, they’d only have another $1.3 trillion to work with.
| 561 |
kansas Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:52:31am |
6,830.92
-232.01 (-3.28%)
Uptick. Quick. Get Obama or Geithner out there.
| 562 |
J.D. Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:52:43am |
After all of the criticism for its sponsorship of a PGA event, Northern Trust decides that government control over its operations is too great a price to pay for the money involved. They want to pay the government back. From Crain’s, on the bank’s decision to un-bail itself out:One big shareholder was supportive, saying the bank is right to exit the federal program if it means no more second-guessing of actions meant to generate business.
Hear! Hear!
| 564 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:52:49am |
Honestly, whoever got elected was going to have this storm. I just would prefer a steadier hand at the helm.
| 566 |
avanti Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:53:00am |
re: #470 nyc redneck
why are you attacking rush so much.
if you really thought he was going to be detriment to us,
you would remain silent.lol, thanks for your “concern”
Good point, if I was comfortable with only having one choice. If you think Rush should be the voice of the GOP, it is certainly your choice to guide the party. If the dislike of Rush by the middle and the left makes him a better choice for you, again, none of my business.
| 567 |
gmsc Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:53:02am |
re: #538 jcm
EJECT!
EJECT!
EJECT!Pop, fizzzile……
Ding, ding, ding….
Voice of bitchin’ Betty…. “ejection systems have been disabled, cuts in spending and The One requires we all go down together.”
EJECT! EJECT! EJECT! - always good advice!
| 568 |
turn Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:53:27am |
re: #529 abaleh
Since the World’s population is projected to peak at ~9 billion and then decline, it doesn’t really matter. The question is if we can sustain the same level of production with the working age population in decline.
Technological advances should be focused on production enhancement (robotics, AI), or else there will be a need for workers from the developing world.
MNT will do this BIGTIME.
| 569 |
vagabond trader Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:53:28am |
re: #553 FurryOldGuyJeans
Not even an old house for squatters to use.
| 570 |
Afrocity Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:53:40am |
re: #551 pink freud
Conservative values, all. Which ones do you disagree with?
None of them but all this bickering amongst yourselves is counter productive and makes me think that Obama is going to repeat his victory in 2012.
| 571 |
Gus Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:54:01am |
re: #558 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Where your fingers are placed on the keyboard effects which keys you hit.
/:)
Yeah, it’s upside down and backwards. No wait that’s my synapses.
///
| 572 |
OldLineTexan Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:54:25am |
| 573 |
yesandno Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:54:51am |
re: #355 avanti
How do you intend to do that with a polarizing figure like Rush. Steele has some appeal to expand the base, Rush is the poster boy for a negative view of the right by those outside the base, and some inside.
Rush doesn’t care what party you are from…he wants all conservatives to be conservative…
Michael Steele wants the conservatives to be Republicans…that is the job he has…but not necessarily require every Repbulican to be conservative. This is the problem.
Rush’s base is conservative, not necessarily Republican. It used to be that Republicans=Conservatives. Not any more.
| 574 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:54:52am |
re: #560 gmsc
Thought for the day: If 0bama and Congress decided to raise the tax rate on people making $500,000/year or more to 100%, they’d only have another $1.3 trillion to work with.
That assumes that they will get every penny they can shake out of the “rich”. Historically when tax burdens go up so does wealth hiding.
| 575 |
Kenneth Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:54:59am |
re: #550 Shr_Nfr
Building new railroads might increase productivity, if the new trains were going to move people & goods in ways that help add to wealth creation. The California train boondoggle is designed to facilitate gambling and whoring, neither of which are wealth creating industries.
| 576 |
Afrocity Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:55:30am |
re: #559 turn
Really? She impressed me as not being as far to the left as many other liberals. Plus she ain’t so bad to look at either :.)
She is NOT the best looking woman on Fox by a long shot. I think Meghan Kelly is but to each his own. ;-)
| 577 |
Desert Dog Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:56:02am |
re: #564 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Honestly, whoever got elected was going to have this storm. I just would prefer a steadier hand at the helm.
You can certainly place much of the blame on this economy on things out of Obama’s control. He’s only been President for a few months. BUT, he has hardly inspired anyone, especially Wall Street. Doom, Gloom, Taxes and Spending….that is the message the markets are hearing. I submit that his actions before the election, right after the election and certainly since he has been in office have had a negative effect on the Stock Markets and the general mood of the country too. When is the “Misery Index” making a comeback?
| 578 |
yma o hyd Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:56:06am |
re: #527 Kenneth
China needs the US to buy her manufactured goods. There is no where near enough domestic demand in China to replace the US market. The US needs China to buy treasury bonds and thereby finance the deficit. It’s a marriage made at the bank.
Russia, meanwhile will create havoc, as they will benefit from a rise in energy prices.
Thing is, how will China sell its goods when the US is getting into a depression, and not buying?
That seems to be the reason why Latvia’s government resigned, and why their economy collapsed: they were exporting stuff which now, in this global crisis, are no longer being bought.
Thats one reason, I think, why Germany will be in deep trouble. Their economy relies on export - what happens when nobody can afford to buy?
Our manufacturing sector in the UK has already shrunk by 5%.
Its no longer just about banks and the stock market - its about the stuff people make and need to sell. If there is not enough money around, people cannot afford to buy. Result - depression, economic collapse all round.
Scary times.
| 579 |
turn Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:56:10am |
re: #524 So?
The font was too small, couldn’t read it. Kidding.
Check out some of the articles there. Much more at the Foresight Institute.
| 580 |
Conservative in Liberal Hands Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:56:14am |
re: #383 zombie
Zom - I must disagree… it should have been the “Oy Yo Watch”
| 581 |
realwest Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:56:19am |
Well I’m outta here for lunch and all that. I hope you all have a great day and that I get the chance to see you all down the road.
| 582 |
Kenneth Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:56:30am |
re: #560 gmsc
Less than that, as these people would either earn less or at least hide what money they do make to avoid taxes. There is a law of diminishing returns.
| 583 |
avanti Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:56:45am |
re: #540 VioletTiger
avanti,
Why do you say steal? Do you think it is wrong to make money?
Know, just a carry over term from my car collecting business. i.e.. “I stole the car” means bought it under market. “Greed is good”
| 584 |
jcm Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:56:51am |
re: #560 gmsc
Thought for the day: If 0bama and Congress decided to raise the tax rate on people making $500,000/year or more to 100%, they’d only have another $1.3 trillion to work with.
Tax data for ‘06
Top 1% $388,806 39.89%
Top 5% $153,542 60.14%
Top 10% $108,904 70.79%
Top 25% $64,702 86.27%
Top 50% $31,987 97.01%
Bottom 50%
| 585 |
DaddyG Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:57:04am |
re: #406 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Tofu for me. If they can make it General Tso’s, that’d be great.
General Tso’s Tofu gives me the Tshitxus.
| 586 |
subsailor68 Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:57:46am |
A little pet peeve. The use of terminology to mean exactly the opposite.
For example, the Earned Income Tax Credit uses the word “earned”, but usually has little to do with that.
On the other hand, Unearned Income (things like return on investments) is actually not “unearned”, since we invested money we’ve saved to help build businesses.
And don’t get me started on the “Employee Free Choice Act” b.s.
(You know, the one that should be called “Card Check”, or “If You Don’t Show Me Who You Voted For I’ll Kick Your Ass Act.)
| 587 |
jcm Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:57:46am |
re: #567 gmsc
EJECT! EJECT! EJECT! - always good advice!
Bill hasn’t posted for awhile, he’s had some good stuff over at NRO recently.
| 588 |
abaleh Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:57:49am |
re: #568 turn
MNT will do this BIGTIME.
MNT would be great. Just need to figure out how to make it work.
I read a book once on MNT, blew my mind away.
| 589 |
MacDuff Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:58:01am |
re: #564 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Honestly, whoever got elected was going to have this storm. I just would prefer a steadier hand at the helm.
And I think a steadier had may have, at least mitigated some of the market losses out of a sense of confidence. The market seems confident of only one thing; that it’s going to get worse.
| 590 |
Erik The Red Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:58:12am |
re: #518 avanti
How about him opposing the ruling by the liberal judges in the Dover case.
Question your source. Rush said this:
“You got to understand who we’re dealing with here, and they have now structured things such as this: When 95 percent of the people of the country agree with something, 5 percent of the country disagrees, the liberal will say the 5 percent must win because we can’t hurt their feelings, we mustn’t offend them.”
Limbaugh continued, “On the other hand, I do think this: I think that the people – and I know why they’re doing it, but I still think that it’s a little bit disingenuous. Let’s make no mistake. The people pushing intelligent design believe in the biblical version of creation. Intelligent design is a way, I think, to sneak it into the curriculum and make it less offensive to the liberals because it ostensibly does not involve religious overtones, that there is just some intelligent being far greater than anything any of us can even imagine that’s responsible for all this, and of course I don’t have any doubt of that. But I think that they’re sort of pussyfooting around when they call it intelligent design.
I still don’t see him supporting ID.
Try again
| 591 |
abaleh Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:58:39am |
re: #588 abaleh
MNT would be great. Just need to figure out how to make it work.
I read a book once on MNT, blew my mind away.
Actually it already works - Life is MNT.
| 592 |
gmsc Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:58:39am |
The markets just jumped up a few points. Did 0bama just finish speaking?
;)
| 593 |
IslandLibertarian Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:58:45am |
Dow -213.93……………
next : the show trials
/it’s a perfect diversion
| 594 |
itellu3times Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:58:58am |
Folks, Dow 6000 has been in the cards since oil went about $100/barrel. Only “irrational exuberance” of people spending the increase in their home prices, prevented it. Well, that stopped, didn’t it? And more. MUCH more. But just to make it more fun, the price of oil fell, too. So there are these big, honking impacts working themselves through the market right now. I think Dow 6600 is about right for the bottom, maybe a little extra excursion down to 6000, maybe 5800, anything below that will be well and truly nuts. If the government doesn’t make things horribly worse by “helping”, I think things hold together and recover within a year or so. With the government helping, who knows.
IOW, this is all well and good. Markets fluctuate, that’s what they do, that’s what they’re for. Enjoy the ride.
| 595 |
VioletTiger Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:59:21am |
re: #583 avanti
Know, just a carry over term from my car collecting business. i.e.. “I stole the car” means bought it under market. “Greed is good”
Okay, didn’t mean to imply anything about greed, but wanted to understand your view of the market.
| 596 |
lawhawk Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:59:38am |
Well, as the markets go down, snowfall totals are rising all over the NYC metro region.
The markets don’t like what they’re seeing from Congress and the President. Who can blame them. Then again, many of these same market bigwigs - the company execs and bigwigs were bigtime Obama supporters and were pushing for hope and change.
They’re getting change alright - pennies on the dollar at the moment - because Obama doesn’t have any quick answer. In fact, he doesn’t have much in the way of answers at all.
One thing I found extremely disturbing was that during the coverage of the Obama speech last week was that CNN actually ran a countdown clock until his speech (T-5 hours, T-3 hours and on), as though we had to wait with baited breath until he spoke something that would save us? Really? CNN and other networks never did this for any other President. They continue pandering to Obama and acting as his spokes-lackeys and aren’t the slightest bit critical of a thing he says.
The man doesn’t have answers. He has multiyear plans. He has ideas to tax and spend his way out of this mess, and the same folks who are being taxed hardest now will be taxed even harder - at all levels of government. It creates a feedback loop of more recessionary pressure because these people will continue to curtail spending to pay for taxes that they would otherwise not have had to pay if Obama left things well enough alone.
Which we knew he would never do. He wanted to put his stamp on things - and he’s certainly doing it. The markets are tanking like they haven’t in decades, and instead of providing reassurance and calming the markets, he keeps riling things up and sending the markets south.
| 597 |
Salem Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:59:40am |
re: #541 zombie
I remember when I gave up cautioning people that the internet wasn’t real life.
| 598 |
Jack Burton Mon, Mar 2, 2009 10:59:49am |
re: #590 Erik The Red
I guess you missed all the times he pimped Ben Stein’s movie on his show.
| 599 |
Kenneth Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:00:06am |
re: #578 yma o hyd
Exactly. Both China & the US will suffer in this crisis, but they will do worse if they break up the relationship. Germany is in a really bad situation. Twice in the last century Germany & eastern Europe suffered economic collapse & both times it led to war.
| 600 |
turn Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:00:46am |
re: #588 abaleh
MNT would be great. Just need to figure out how to make it work.
I read a book once on MNT, blew my mind away.
Read Drexlers pioneering work “Engines of Creation” and “Unbounding the Future” available free on line.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
| 601 |
Shr_Nfr Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:00:58am |
re: #575 Kenneth
Productivity will be increased when the money is spent more wisely by the government than by the taxpayers. I have not seen that happen since the GI bill.
| 602 |
OldLineTexan Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:01:08am |
re: #594 itellu3times
Folks, Dow 6000 has been in the cards since oil went about $100/barrel. Only “irrational exuberance” of people spending the increase in their home prices, prevented it. Well, that stopped, didn’t it? And more. MUCH more. But just to make it more fun, the price of oil fell, too. So there are these big, honking impacts working themselves through the market right now. I think Dow 6600 is about right for the bottom, maybe a little extra excursion down to 6000, maybe 5800, anything below that will be well and truly nuts. If the government doesn’t make things horribly worse by “helping”, I think things hold together and recover within a year or so. With the government helping, who knows.
IOW, this is all well and good. Markets fluctuate, that’s what they do, that’s what they’re for. Enjoy the ride.
Very large “IF”, I fear.
| 603 |
lawhawk Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:01:11am |
re: #575 Kenneth
Building new railroads might increase productivity, if the new trains were going to move people & goods in ways that help add to wealth creation. The California train boondoggle is designed to facilitate gambling and whoring, neither of which are wealth creating industries.
And where exactly would those trains go? No one wants ‘em in their backyards. NIMBY and environmentalists oppose new transit corridors, etc.
| 604 |
gmsc Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:01:18am |
The market is headed down today, so it must the “failed Bush policies of the past 8 years”. 0bama only has any influence on the market when it goes up, as I understand it.
///////////////
The politics of failure have failed! We need to make them work again!
-Kodos
| 605 |
Erik The Red Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:01:23am |
re: #567 gmsc
EJECT! EJECT! EJECT! - always good advice!
Nothing new for sometime. Pity I really like BW. I see him sometimes on Rachel Lucas’s site. Does he comment here?
| 606 |
turn Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:02:21am |
| 607 |
gmsc Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:02:37am |
re: #594 itellu3times
Folks, Dow 6000 has been in the cards since oil went about $100/barrel. Only “irrational exuberance” of people spending the increase in their home prices, prevented it. Well, that stopped, didn’t it? And more. MUCH more. But just to make it more fun, the price of oil fell, too. So there are these big, honking impacts working themselves through the market right now. I think Dow 6600 is about right for the bottom, maybe a little extra excursion down to 6000, maybe 5800, anything below that will be well and truly nuts. If the government doesn’t make things horribly worse by “helping”, I think things hold together and recover within a year or so. With the government helping, who knows.
IOW, this is all well and good. Markets fluctuate, that’s what they do, that’s what they’re for. Enjoy the ride.
China’s asking, “Why is the United States market so bad right now?”
We reply, “Fluctuations!”
They reply, “Oh, yeah? Well, fluc you white people, too!”
;)
| 608 |
aggieann Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:02:41am |
re: #560 gmsc
Thought for the day: If 0bama and Congress decided to raise the tax rate on people making $500,000/year or more to 100%, they’d only have another $1.3 trillion to work with.
Thought for tomorrow: If 0bama and Congress decided to raise the tax rate on people making $500,000/year or more to 100%, then a whole lot of people will figure out how to report $499,999 on their taxes.
| 609 |
Kenneth Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:02:57am |
re: #586 subsailor68
And don’t get me started on the “Employee Free Choice Act” b.s.
(You know, the one that should be called “Card Check”, or “If You Don’t Show Me Who You Voted For I’ll Kick Your Ass Act.)
The Union Extortion Act…, the Goon Assistance Act…
| 610 |
J.D. Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:03:32am |
re: #603 lawhawk
And where exactly would those trains go? No one wants ‘em in their backyards. NIMBY and environmentalists oppose new transit corridors, etc.
Wouldn’t it be a strange coincidence if Harry Reid had the perfect property in Nevada to sell “them” for this train?
| 611 |
abaleh Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:03:36am |
re: #600 turn
Read Drexlers pioneering work “Engines of Creation” and “Unbounding the Future” available free on line.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
Engines of Creation was the one I read if I recall correctly.
| 612 |
formercorpsman Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:03:41am |
re: #446 zombie
Yes. Sad to think the world has forgotten already, Soviet Border guards with orders to shoot anyone trying to jump the Berlin Wall.
| 613 |
bolivar Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:04:27am |
re: #605 Erik The Red
Nothing new for sometime. Pity I really like BW. I see him sometimes on Rachel Lucas’s site. Does he comment here?
Bill is heavily into PJTV and is on there regularly. I like Bill a lot, he is one of the few bloggers that has ever answered an email personally. The only other one was Michelle Malkin. I respect both for different reasons.
| 614 |
avanti Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:04:30am |
re: #590 Erik The Red
Question your source. Rush said this:
“You got to understand who we’re dealing with here, and they have now structured things such as this: When 95 percent of the people of the country agree with something, 5 percent of the country disagrees, the liberal will say the 5 percent must win because we can’t hurt their feelings, we mustn’t offend them.”
You forgot the money quote:
“Answering a caller who asked his opinion of the recent high-profile federal court decision against intelligent design in the Dover, Pa., school district, Rush answered he wasn’t surprised, given the context of judicial activism.
“I think it’s another great example of how we need different kinds of judges,” he said. “
Since the ruling was against the ID’ers, how do you spin the
“I think it’s another great example of how we need different kinds of judges”
To a dumb leftist, I get, we need different judges so this time kind of case is won by the ID.ers.
| 615 |
Shr_Nfr Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:05:48am |
re: #599 Kenneth
The problem is that when people feel powerless and they are in a bad situation, they begin to displace their anger away from the people ruling them toward some other population. Germany in the 30s and Gaza today are prime examples. I do not think it is the question of if we have a war, but a question of where it is going to be at this point. We would be wise to retain the ability to construct vehicles in this country independent of any other country. We may need it to make the newest and latest for use by our military. Just my opinion, but that is my read of history.
| 616 |
Fighton03 Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:06:22am |
The President In Training takes his hopey-changey global over the weekend, and markets open lower. Then AIG continues to suck at the Gov’t tit and they freefall because there is NO confidence that the fed’s can stop the pipe line of good money after bad.
When will headlines start noticing the link? (rhetorical question….we all know the answer….)
The only ones getting railroaded here are common American’s who tried to save on their own. Conspiracy theory for ya here……Is it a concerted plan to destroy the independent wealth and retirement planning of this nation and force more people onto the dole?
| 618 |
Erik The Red Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:06:48am |
re: #598 ArchangelMichael
I guess you missed all the times he pimped Ben Stein’s movie on his show.
I may have. I am in Africa and don’t listen everyday. I was asking for proof that he supports ID. If he does I am done with him. Simple. Another good Conservative down the ID funnel.
| 619 |
yma o hyd Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:06:52am |
re: #599 Kenneth
Exactly. Both China & the US will suffer in this crisis, but they will do worse if they break up the relationship. Germany is in a really bad situation. Twice in the last century Germany & eastern Europe suffered economic collapse & both times it led to war.
True - but this time round I hope it’ll be just a war of words.
I’m more concerned about some horrid stuff happening in the ME, which may well happen, seeing that everybody is taking their eyes off the ball during this economic crisis.
Can’r remember where I read this, but after Sarajewo, when thigns were escalating in eastern Europe, Great Britain was actually much more concerned with the unrest in ireland and questions of Irish Home Rule than with anything happening in Europe.
If Earl Grey hadn’t taken his eyes off the ball then - who knows …
| 620 |
Rancher Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:10:14am |
Don’t expect the DOW to recover anytime soon. One way Obama plans to take advantage of the Franks and Dodd sponsored crises is to use the budget reconciliation process to by-pass filibusters.
Obama Floats Controversial Procedural Move
As OMB director Peter Orszag said “We have to keep everything on the table. We want to get these…. important things done this year.” The NY Times agrees. Remember when the GOP was too nice to use the “nuclear option” to get rid of Democratic obstruction on Bush appointed Judges? Well look for this congress to do anything and every thing necessary to pass their socialist agenda. Look for the DOW to fall further and further as this crap is passed and look for Obama to push more and more crap to fight the “crises” that they are making worse. Talk about a vicious circle. David Kahane brags at NRO about how the leftist media set the narrative for Obama to win and for the new narrative “capitalism = bad, socialism = good”. As he says in the article “You should have nuked us when you had the chance.” If the GOP ever gets control of any bit of the government back we better grow a pair.
| 621 |
Ceemack Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:11:26am |
The Great Depression was a delayed reflection of market uncertainty by several years.
No, the Great Depression was the result of succeeding administrations reacting stupidly to a downturn in the stock market.
Hoover got the ball rolling with tax increases and deflation. Congress chipped in with the Smoot-Hawley tariff act that set off a global trade war.
Roosevelt kept the ball rolling with the National Recovery Act, which hamstrung business at all levels. Many of his public-works projects, like the TVA, drove private enterprises out of business. The borrowing to fund his public-works projects took needed capital out of the private markets. He was also constantly tampering with the price of gold.
The Crash of ‘29 didn’t cause the Great Depression, even on a delayed basis. The Federal government did.
| 622 |
itellu3times Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:12:32am |
re: #617 buzzsawmonkey
I agree that Obama is running things. That doesn’t mean he’s in control.
In fact, from where I sit that looks increasingly dubious.
The democrats have their majorities in both houses of Congress, and only a few seats, and the weak threat of a filibuster, puts any restraints on them at all.
So what we have is a complete novice, Obama, and the craziest bunch of libtards in American history in the Congress, and the MSM gone so far to the left they can’t even see the middle anymore, COMPETING with each other to see who can be the craziest. It’s rather like the dynamic of Islam, in which the craziest elements of society rule, rather than the wisest, or any kind of consensus.
It’s bad.
| 624 |
itellu3times Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:14:53am |
re: #623 sloggin420
Is it time for the military stage a coup to take control yet? Isn’t that how it is supposed to work in a banana republic?
Not yet, long way from that yet.
| 625 |
Erik The Red Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:15:32am |
re: #620 Rancher
Long time Rancher. How is prison treating you. Rustler is busy on the LNDT. You have been scarce. Or I just keep missing you.
| 626 |
avanti Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:16:48am |
re: #623 sloggin420
Is it time for the military stage a coup to take control yet? Isn’t that how it is supposed to work in a banana republic?
Wow, you just out Kos’ed the Kosack’s with that one.
| 627 |
Silvergirl Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:17:40am |
If the ABC News article has it right, we get to pay about $1400 each for AIG.
“The government’s newly overhauled rescue package for AIG is $162.5 billion, according to government officials. Divide that by 111,609,629 — the total number of U.S. households, according to the U.S. Census’ 2005-2007 American Community Survey — and the result is $1,455.97. That’s nearly double the maximum tax benefit U.S. couples will receive under the federal stimulus package approved last month.”
| 630 |
Guanxi88 Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:21:05am |
Markets are in a funk because of overall uncertainty about what’s next for the US economy. At the highest levels, leadership runs around yapping about “crisis” every chance they get, and make radical and costly interventions into the market when they aren’t proposing yet more radical and more costly interventions for the future.
So who’s surprised that the markets are doing what they’re doing? It’s not full-scale panic yet, but it has that feeling.
| 632 |
gymmom Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:28:40am |
re: #436 avanti
When the right does the same with the religious right and gives the voter a choice not tied to a theocracy.
W was a deeply religious man. What exactly did he do in this country to make it a theocracy? And don’t list faith based social programs. I know Catholic Charities (and others) provide help to anyone who needs it, without trying to convert them.
| 633 |
Honorary Yooper Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:29:12am |
re: #623 sloggin420
Nice knowin’ ya.
Buh-bye.
| 634 |
debutaunt Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:30:05am |
re: #316 nyc redneck
he can’t do anything w/out the prompter.
that says a lot abt. him.
That isn’t my definition of being articulate.
| 635 |
Kenneth Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:33:02am |
re: #615 Shr_Nfr
In his book, The War of the World Niall Ferguson argues that the terrible wars of the 20th century happened during times of economic uncertainty, in zones of conflict where ethnic populations were greatly mixed and where empires felt threatened. For the First & Second World Wars, that meant the Eastern Europe & Manchuria were the fault lines where the wars started. Both those zones are at risk today - Eastern European economies are in a free fall, drawing in central European powers and a resurgent Russia. The Korean peninsula could play the part of Manchuria. Parts of the Middle East fit the bill too (ie Iraq, Iran & Israel).
| 636 |
avanti Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:35:47am |
re: #632 gymmom
W was a deeply religious man. What exactly did he do in this country to make it a theocracy? And don’t list faith based social programs. I know Catholic Charities (and others) provide help to anyone who needs it, without trying to convert them.
We never made it to a theocracy, but the GOP’s platform has religious components with support for constitutional amendments dealing with abortion, and gay marriage. That and the whole push to bring religion into the public square. I.D. school prayer and the rest.
| 637 |
MrSoCal Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:40:08am |
Lowest level since 4/28/1997 (almost 12 years). So basically, you could have gone on vacation for all this time. Dear President Obama: Please pay my bills while I am on vacation. You may call it a stimulus if that means it passes the house vote.
| 639 |
Unakite Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:42:48am |
re: #291 lawhawk
Usually it’s the lesser of two evils. This time around, it was the evil of two lessers. The markets are down and will continue to go down as they digest what this Administration is going to do to small businesses and they were talking about this at the airport yesterday - that the health insurance provisions are going to kill small business and do the opposite of what was “intended” which means that the Democrats are going to foist still more government health care on people - and limit actual choice and private health care coverage will slowly disappear.
In other words, they are going to do exactly what is “intended”
| 640 |
Rancher Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:43:16am |
re: #625 Erik The Red
As you can tell by my scarce posting the Prison is keeping me very busy. Thanks for asking Red, hows life treating you?
| 641 |
gymmom Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:47:52am |
re: #636 avanti
Abortion is not a religious issue, it’s a moral one. And allowing children to pray in school is VERY different from compelling them to pray. Allowing expressions of religion of the majority of Americans is not pushing toward a theocracy. We’ve been having public displays for quite a few years (centuries) and there are still more atheists than there were.
| 642 |
stevieray Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:49:03am |
re: #635 Kenneth
Unfortunately, so does much of the American Southwest.
| 643 |
avanti Mon, Mar 2, 2009 11:53:21am |
re: #641 gymmom
Abortion is not a religious issue, it’s a moral one. And allowing children to pray in school is VERY different from compelling them to pray. Allowing expressions of religion of the majority of Americans is not pushing toward a theocracy. We’ve been having public displays for quite a few years (centuries) and there are still more atheists than there were.
There is no law prohibiting children from praying in school. a lot of silent prayers go up every time there is a test. Being led in prayer is a different issue, just as government sponsored endorsement of one faith. Abortion is a moral issue, but the pro life movement is driven largely by the church.
| 645 |
who is john galt Mon, Mar 2, 2009 12:01:40pm |
re: #33 MandyManners
I HOPE EVERYONE WHO REFUSED TO VOTE FOR MCCAIN BECAUSE HE WASN’T CONSERVATIVE ENOUGH IS FUCKING HAPPY NOW!
I say this to all the pouty little fools that I know who wouldn’t vote McCain.
He would, atleast, have created a slower swing toward social welfare stat-ism
| 646 |
Kenneth Mon, Mar 2, 2009 12:10:55pm |
re: #642 stevieray
You have a point there and not a happy one.
| 647 |
looking closely Mon, Mar 2, 2009 12:16:38pm |
Ammunition is actually a fairly good investment, if you’ve got the space and temperament for it.
Ammo has been appreciating at 15% per year for the last several years, and it seems unlikely to depreciate any time soon. As a “hard” asset, its also inflation resistant.
Shelf life is effectively unlimited so long as its stored in a cool dry place.
| 649 |
looking closely Mon, Mar 2, 2009 12:30:52pm |
re: #560 gmsc
Thought for the day: If 0bama and Congress decided to raise the tax rate on people making $500,000/year or more to 100%, they’d only have another $1.3 trillion to work with.
No they wouldn’t.
Maybe the FIRST year they’d have a small fraction of that.
The next year they’d have next to zero because none of the ones making $500k per year would continue to do so knowing all their wealth would be confiscated.
Instead the top earners would all move offshore, stop earning, or cook the books simply lying to the gov’t about income.
| 650 |
kansas Mon, Mar 2, 2009 12:46:06pm |
6,781.85
-281.08 (-3.98%)
Obama be partying at the White House tonight. Conga line, cavier, Air Force One.
| 652 |
Killian Bundy Mon, Mar 2, 2009 12:47:41pm |
Down we go again
/could someone please cut up Obama’s credit cards!
| 654 |
Killian Bundy Mon, Mar 2, 2009 12:54:32pm |
Gee, a concrete plan to stabilize the banks, as was promised weeks ago, would be nice. The markets would like that.
/these people have little idea what the hell they’re doing
| 655 |
aboo-Hoo-Hoo Mon, Mar 2, 2009 12:57:58pm |
re: #654 Killian Bundy
Gee, a concrete plan to stabilize the banks, as was promised weeks ago, would be nice. The markets would like that.
/these people have little idea what the hell they’re doing
Killian…no idea what they’re doing and don’t think people aren’t going to be or get mad(der).
| 656 |
Fighton03 Mon, Mar 2, 2009 1:00:39pm |
This is officially the Obama Crash. the market has dropped consistently since he locked up the donkey nomination in May. The market’s were able to hold the line for a while when McCain and the Pubs were making good points in Aug, but when the cards finally fell and the MSM went all out Obama, the market died. We have lost almost 50% since that time. Yes there are a lot of factors involved, but the common theme is the absolute inadequacy of team savior to have an effective vision for stabilizing investors and businesses uncertainty about the the fed role in the business landscape.
| 658 |
Killian Bundy Mon, Mar 2, 2009 1:04:30pm |
Well, if there’s any consolation, the markets are ridiculously oversold.
/too many companies are trading near or below their breakup values
| 659 |
Eclectic Infidel Mon, Mar 2, 2009 1:04:44pm |
I’ve just become a victim of stealth layoffs for a very large financial institution. F*ck.
| 660 |
aboo-Hoo-Hoo Mon, Mar 2, 2009 1:05:42pm |
-299.87 or -4.2% on the day.
Quite some stimulus they came up with - in fast backasswards reverse.
| 661 |
aboo-Hoo-Hoo Mon, Mar 2, 2009 1:06:51pm |
re: #659 eclectic infidel
I’ve just become a victim of stealth layoffs for a very large financial institution. F*ck.
Sorry to hear that.
| 662 |
Fighton03 Mon, Mar 2, 2009 1:11:27pm |
re: #658 Killian Bundy
Do you mean they are trading at book/asset value or do you mean orderly resale?
| 663 |
Fighton03 Mon, Mar 2, 2009 1:12:12pm |
re: #659 eclectic infidel
I’ve just become a victim of stealth layoffs for a very large financial institution. F*ck.
I’ll keep my fingers crossed for you. It’s going to be a rough ride for a while.
| 664 |
Killian Bundy Mon, Mar 2, 2009 1:15:03pm |
Book/asset value, there’s absolutely no reason many of these companies should be trading near or below it, they have solid balance sheets and ongoing operations.
/it’s hysterical craziness
| 665 |
Killian Bundy Mon, Mar 2, 2009 1:19:50pm |
| 666 |
Fighton03 Mon, Mar 2, 2009 1:24:35pm |
re: #664 Killian Bundy
Book/asset value, there’s absolutely no reason many of these companies should be trading near or below it, they have solid balance sheets and ongoing operations.
/it’s hysterical craziness
That indicates to me that investors are uncertain enough about the future to not recognize which of those “ongoing operations” will have good chances of continuing in the future business landscape. Those businesses would continue to fall until the companies start getting close to an orderly resale value (book value less the costs of actually breaking out the assets), but then there would still have to be a customer for those assets. No customer…no value, end of story. It has no impact on the real operation of the business unless that company tries to raise capital through equity financing, but it really makes the employees and owners feel depressed to see their wealth vanishing.
| 667 |
Fighton03 Mon, Mar 2, 2009 1:28:12pm |
hmmmmm….so was my previous post truly the spawn of Satan?
| 668 |
Silvergirl Mon, Mar 2, 2009 2:33:40pm |
re: #667 Fighton03
hmmmmm….so was my previous post truly the spawn of Satan?
Yikes, I guess it was. You better put that angel/fairy in your yard to ward off the evil.
| 669 |
pittrader1988 Mon, Mar 2, 2009 3:30:31pm |
re: #656 Fighton03
Actually, the market went into free fall when he passed McCain in the polls for good in October. Of course, they will blame all that on Bush.
However, this budget spooked everyone. Obama is in the batters box now. Two out in the first inning. No one on base.
| 670 |
Silvergirl Mon, Mar 2, 2009 3:35:42pm |
re: #669 pittrader1988
Actually, the market went into free fall when he passed McCain in the polls for good in October. Of course, they will blame all that on Bush.
However, this budget spooked everyone. Obama is in the batters box now. Two out in the first inning. No one on base.
He inherited the ball from the last batter. Isn’t that how the game is played?/
| 671 |
countrygurl Mon, Mar 2, 2009 4:32:04pm |
re: #33 MandyManners
I liked your quote so much, Ms. Manners, I snagged it for my facebook “status update.” You summed up my feelings exactly, and in so few words.
| 672 |
Fighton03 Mon, Mar 2, 2009 5:43:50pm |
re: #669 pittrader1988
Actually, the market went into free fall when he passed McCain in the polls for good in October. Of course, they will blame all that on Bush.
However, this budget spooked everyone. Obama is in the batters box now. Two out in the first inning. No one on base.
The general decline began in May….plateaued leading into the conventions, and then tanked when the MSM went into full Palin convulsions. The 9/18 conspiracy theory is another blip, but it doesn’t change the fact that as the O’s presidency became more of a certainty, the markets fell more and more.
| 673 |
SunshineGirl Mon, Mar 2, 2009 6:48:52pm |
anyone betting on when the Dow will hit 5000? with these drops of 200+ points per day, it won’t be long! If this president was a physician, and the economy was a patient, the family would be planning a funeral, and contacting a lawyer to sue for malpractice and negligence.
| 674 |
pittrader1988 Mon, Mar 2, 2009 7:04:10pm |
re: #673 SunshineGirl
typing as a trader, I would predict that you will see some terrific bear market rallies on the way to 5400. markets don’t go in a straight line. It will go to 5400, unless the administration changes course-which is always possible.
markets are a little bid tonight. On Friday, Unemployment is out. It should be much higher. But that is already priced in, so there cold be a nice rally Friday on bad news.
Rallies in bear markets are a time to ring the cash register. Sell call options on stocks you want to keep, sell stock you want to unload.
If it goes in a straight line to 5400-look out. We will head to 2700 then. That is the place where the Dow rallied from in 1987-88. Go through there, 770. That is where the Dow rallied from in 1982.
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