Texas School Board Creationists Facing Curbs

Science • Views: 3,587

After the ridiculous debacle in the Texas State Board of Education, in which creationists on the board (including young earth creationist chairman Don McLeroy, appointed twice by Republican governor Rick Perry) managed to insert several absurd anti-science amendments into the public school science curriculum, some Texas legislators are fed up and discussing ways to curb the religious fanatics.

Texas state legislators are considering reining in the Board of Education amid frustration with the board’s politically charged debate over how to teach evolution.

The board last month approved a science curriculum that opens the door for teachers and textbooks to introduce creationist objections to evolution’s explanation of the origin and progression of life forms. Other parts of the curriculum were carefully worded to raise doubts about global warming and the big-bang theory of how the universe began.

While the science standards have drawn the most attention, the 15-member elected board has been embroiled in other controversies as well. Last year, it rejected a reading curriculum that teachers had spent nearly three years drafting. In its place, the board approved a document that a few members hastily assembled just hours before the vote.

Some lawmakers — mostly Democrats — say they have had enough.

The most far-reaching proposals would strip the Texas board of its authority to set curricula and approve textbooks. Depending on the bill, that power would be transferred to the state education agency, a legislative board or the commissioner of education. Other bills would transform the board to an appointed rather than elected body, require Webcasting of meetings, and take away the board’s control of a vast pot of school funding. Gov. Rick Perry, a Republican, hasn’t taken a position on specific bills, a spokeswoman said.

It’s shameful that these kinds of anti-science initiatives are always owned by the Republican Party. Rick Perry may not have taken an official position on these issues, but he’s responsible for putting an ignorant, dishonest Biblical literalist in charge of teaching science to Texas schoolchildren. Twice. And he knew exactly what McLeroy stood for when he did it.

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733 comments
1 Shug  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 6:54:50pm

Kick em to the curb

2 Mithrax  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 6:55:47pm

Repubs have to get away from the wackjobs and get back to basics.

3 NukeAtomrod  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 6:56:53pm

The Republicans pander to the Creationists. The Democrats are hostile to anything Christian. It's a lose-lose situation.

4 Emerald  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 6:56:58pm

Hopefully, the Republicans will realize they are doing far more damage to the party by pandering to these fringe elements before they destroy too much of the party's credibility.

5 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 6:57:51pm

Since we haven't had an evolution thread for a while, I'll take first troll post at 157 tonight, and first meltdown at 231.

6 Shug  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 6:58:02pm

McLeroy is trying to distract us with his buffed dome.

Well it won't work. We're wearing welders goggles

7 kansas  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 6:58:38pm

re: #4 Emerald

Hopefully, the Republicans will realize they are doing far more damage to the party by pandering to these fringe elements before they destroy too much of the party's credibility.

That train done left the station.

8 Nevergiveup  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 6:58:43pm

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

Since we haven't had an evolution thread for a while, I'll take first troll post at 157 tonight, and first meltdown at 231.

It's kind late. Many of the trolls are already in bed and mommy has turned out the lights.

9 Bloodnok  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 6:59:04pm
an ignorant, dishonest Biblical literalist in charge of teaching science to Texas schoolchildren.

Ah. Once again Don McElroy rears his shiny head.

10 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 6:59:05pm
Other bills would transform the board to an appointed rather than elected body, require Webcasting of meetings, and take away the board’s control of a vast pot of school funding.

I'm not so certain an appointed board would be much better than an elected board considering the governor appointed McLeroy to head the board in the first place. A legislative board might be better.

11 Wishing  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 6:59:42pm

Kind of off topic, but totally Texas:

Texas a Terror State?
According to the Department of Homeland Security, Texas fits the Department's profile of potential domestic terrorism described in their newly released report titled, " Right-wing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment".

The comments are great as well.

12 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:00:51pm

Well first off... Yay! At least someone is doing the right thing in the government.

Second off DAMN - they are not Republicans, who seem to be on the wrong side of this consistently - and that does not go unnoticed.

13 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:01:01pm

re: #9 Bloodnok

Ah. Once again Don McElroy rears his shiny empty head.

Fixed.

14 Emerald  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:01:19pm

re: #10 Sharmuta

I'm not so certain an appointed board would be much better than an elected board considering the governor appointed McLeroy to head the board in the first place. A legislative board might be better.

Yeah, I was wondering if that was really going to be effective. Anything based on politics has the potential to be abused.

15 jaunte  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:01:22pm
Board members, who aren't paid, object to most legislative meddling.

"As crazy as the Texas Board of Education is, there are just as many crazies, percentage-wise, in the state Legislature," said board member Pat Hardy.


Thanks in large part to the evolution-creationism threads here, everyone here can spot and name the specific logical fallacy at work in Hardy's remark above.

16 neomexicon  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:02:19pm

OT: The pirates strike again, on a cargo ship reportedly carrying food aid to african nations. I think it's appropriate to say they bite the hand that feeds them.

17 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:03:14pm
Some lawmakers — mostly Democrats — say they have had enough.

I wonder how many Republicans have had enough.

18 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:03:25pm

re: #15 jaunte

Thanks in large part to the evolution-creationism threads here, everyone here can spot and name the specific logical fallacy at work in Hardy's remark above.

Tu quoi, correct?

19 devil in baggy pants  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:03:31pm

Yeah, but you gotta admit that THIS totally kicks ass!

/ waves copy of the Constitution just to remind DC who's who

20 albusteve  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:03:44pm

I see no problem stripping the SB of the authority to choose curriculum....they blew it....they have other responsibilities, like bus washing and lunch menus

21 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:03:55pm

Didn't Texas secede earlier today?

22 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:04:17pm

re: #18 Dark_Falcon

Tu quoiquoque, correct?

23 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:04:25pm

re: #16 neomexicon

OT: The pirates strike again, on a cargo ship reportedly carrying food aid to african nations. I think it's appropriate to say they bite the hand that feeds them.

They don't care if others starve. They just want their money. Death to piracy!

24 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:04:31pm

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

Since we haven't had an evolution thread for a while, I'll take first troll post at 157 tonight, and first meltdown at 231.

YOU ARE JUST A COMMIE WHO HATES CHRISTIANS! YOU GODLESS EVOLUTIONIST ATHEIST!

I pray for your soul even though you are the spawn of Satan and I rebuke you! When I am taken up by the Rapture, and you are suffering in brimstone with your monkey boy loving friends - because you know that evolutionism leads to gayness, atheism and NAZIS! - You will know who was right - but it will be too late!

/////////////

25 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:04:46pm

re: #14 Emerald

Yeah, I was wondering if that was really going to be effective. Anything based on politics has the potential to be abused.

Very true. It's why our Founders believed in placing constraints on the power of elected officials.

Perhaps an appointment with legislative approval, but otherwise it's seems to me like six of one, half a dozen of the other.

26 cronus  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:04:50pm

I'll assume this isn't keeping Rick Perry up at nights. But when those contesting the curriculum your twice appointed school board president is pushing includes a scientist from Exxon -- the Houston headquartered largest company in the world -- this is more than just a battle with academics.

At what point do science-based businesses like those in the oil and gas industry start to question the state's commitment to science?

27 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:05:31pm

re: #19 devil in baggy pants

Yeah, but you gotta admit that THIS totally kicks ass!

/ waves copy of the Constitution just to remind DC who's who

There is some interesting Constitutional nuance to be debated but it's probably stupid and will end up poorly if they seriously try to push it.

28 jaunte  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:05:38pm

re: #21 Killgore Trout

Nah, Perry just fired a 10th amendment at Fort Obama.

29 Shug  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:05:58pm

Creationists on school boards just means that Parents have an even greater responsibility to make sure we know what our children are being taught in school.

Not only do we have to fight political correctness, revisionist history, but the possibility that magic and folklore will be taught in science class

30 albusteve  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:06:39pm

re: #27 Killgore Trout

There is some interesting Constitutional nuance to be debated but it's probably stupid and will end up poorly if they seriously try to push it.

such a conformist....get in line, stay in line, do not cross the line

31 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:06:48pm

re: #22 Occasional Reader

Thank you. I did not know how to spell it. Full disclosure: I did not learn about logical fallacies here; I learned about them in a history class in college. The professor was a liberal, but he believed in teaching people to actually think and I learned a fair bit from him.

32 NukeAtomrod  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:07:06pm

re: #14 Emerald

Yeah, I was wondering if that was really going to be effective. Anything based on politics involving people has the potential to be abused.

Just a thought.

33 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:07:09pm

re: #29 Shug

Creationists on school boards just means that Parents have an even greater responsibility to make sure we know what our children are being taught in school.

Not only do we have to fight political correctness, revisionist history, but the possibility that magic and folklore will be taught in science class

Because the 11th commandment in America is that: my opinions are more important than your facts.

34 kansas  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:07:14pm

re: #28 jaunte

Nah, Perry just fired a 10th amendment at Fort Obama.

Big mistake. Obama's got more fire power. And this 10th amendment of which you speak? Not getting that. //

35 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:07:42pm

re: #19 devil in baggy pants

Yeah, but you gotta admit that THIS totally kicks ass!

Actually, no. I don't need to agree with that at all.

Where have I heard "state's rights" before?

Oh yes: [Link: www.civilwarhome.com...]

36 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:09:35pm

re: #35 Charles

Actually, no. I don't need to agree with that at all.

Where have I heard "state's rights" before?

Oh yes: [Link: www.civilwarhome.com...]

Well, if Texas wants to try that again, they'll need to produce a better general than John Bell Hood.

37 reine.de.tout  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:09:39pm

re: #24 LudwigVanQuixote

YOU ARE JUST A COMMIE WHO HATES CHRISTIANS! YOU GODLESS EVOLUTIONIST ATHEIST!

I pray for your soul even though you are the spawn of Satan and I rebuke you! When I am taken up by the Rapture, and you are suffering in brimstone with your monkey boy loving friends - because you know that evolutionism leads to gayness, atheism and NAZIS! - You will know who was right - but it will be too late!

/////////////

I know you are being sarcastic; but I have actually read these types of things often at other places about LGF and it just leaves me speechless. They cannot be reading the same things I am reading here.

38 Nevergiveup  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:10:59pm

re: #36 Dark_Falcon

Well, if Texas wants to try that again, they'll need to produce a better general than John Bell Hood.

I just don't get it. Sitting between the USA and Mexico, were exactly would Texas go?

39 hazzyday  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:11:12pm

Republican is to Creationism as Democrat is to Social Justice.

Neither is meant for modern consumption. The Seattle Times the other day was making fun of Gov. Jindal's lack of common sense in ragging on the volcano monitoring and then to have a volcano erupt shortly thereafter. The warnings went out, air traffic was altered.

Or maybe it's just that God is showing his displeasure are his creationist followers by throwing hurricanes and volcano's at their Governor's

40 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:11:27pm

Stripping the elected board of its authority is not the way to proceed. This would place future curricula in the hands of less accountable entities, especially including the bureaucratic Texas Education Agency. A legislative board would be at least as bad as the current one with the additional disadvantage of diluted accountability for education.

Pro-science Texans must first persuade Governor Perry to remove McLeroy as president of the board (an appointed position) if possible, and to at least not re-appoint him or appoint a similar nut when the current term expires. We must then become involved in every way possible to ensure the election of pro-science members.

Kooks take control of school boards because most of the voters are just not paying attention to these elections. We must get their attention, explain the stakes, and make it clear just what a laughingstock people like McLeroy really are. This must become a major electoral issue. It's a tall order, I know, but pro-science activists are continually citing the magnitude of the problem. They can start behaving accordingly. It will take money, work, and time, as well as the fortitude to confront some of the most vicious liars this side of Hollywood. If it is really that important, and it is, those things will be forthcoming.

41 Bloodnok  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:11:58pm

re: #27 Killgore Trout

There is some interesting Constitutional nuance to be debated but it's probably stupid and will end up poorly if they seriously try to push it.

I agree. This isn't needed. I don't see the point in making a "take that, Obama" statement with something as serious as the Constitution.

42 Racer X  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:12:02pm

The Federal Government exists to help support the States.

Not the other way around.

43 Unakite  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:12:24pm

re: #2 Mithrax

Repubs have to get away from the wackjobs and get back to basics.

Heh, the wackjobs think they are the basics!

44 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:12:28pm

re: #35 Charles

State's Rights has been the refuge of nutcases and bad ideas throughout our history. It never ends up well for those who try to push their luck with it.

45 hazzyday  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:12:44pm

re: #38 Nevergiveup

I just don't get it. Sitting between the USA and Mexico, were exactly would Texas go?

They'll have another war with Mexico over drugs and gangs. It would get ugly. The US would intervene.

46 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:12:54pm

re: #35 Charles

Actually, no. I don't need to agree with that at all.

Where have I heard "state's rights" before?

Oh yes: [Link: www.civilwarhome.com...]

I don't think that an effort to call attention to the provisions of the 10th Amendment amounts to that.

47 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:12:56pm

re: #19 devil in baggy pants

Yeah, but you gotta admit that THIS totally kicks ass!

/ waves copy of the Constitution just to remind DC who's who

I get really creeped out when I hear that kind of posturing. What is the point? "Don't mess with Texas?"
"Take that Obama, I will hypocritically bring the spectre of the Civil War to you just to remind you that I want to make futile gestures of defiance!"
"Let me draw you attention to the fact that we have the right to wagle our man parts rather than be productive!"

Or maybe they just want to confirm that the GOP in Texas is in line with all of the negative stereotypes of the South. Yeah that will help the party!

48 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:12:59pm

re: #37 reine.de.tout

I know you are being sarcastic; but I have actually read these types of things often at other places about LGF and it just leaves me speechless. They cannot be reading the same things I am reading here.

They are reading the same thing, but their first principles are very different than yours. They believe that the Bible is the literal word of God and anything that contradicts it is wrong at best, evil at worst.

49 TheAntichrist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:13:01pm

re: #24 LudwigVanQuixote

YOU ARE JUST A COMMIE WHO HATES CHRISTIANS! YOU GODLESS EVOLUTIONIST ATHEIST!

I pray for your soul even though you are the spawn of Satan and I rebuke you! When I am taken up by the Rapture, and you are suffering in brimstone with your monkey boy loving friends - because you know that evolutionism leads to gayness, atheism and NAZIS! - You will know who was right - but it will be too late!

/////////////


Ha! You're wrong. The correct religion is the Mormons, didn't you ever see the South Park movie?


Everybody else goes straight to hell.

50 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:13:17pm

Don't give up on us here in Texas, Charles. Hopefully the legislature will shunt the creationists.

There's a saying here that we need to keep our hands on our wallets when the legislature is in session, but at least they're not full time like they are in California. They only meet here for 140 days every other year.

51 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:13:18pm

re: #37 reine.de.tout

I know you are being sarcastic; but I have actually read these types of things often at other places about LGF and it just leaves me speechless. They cannot be reading the same things I am reading here.

I've had them shouted to my face.

52 NukeAtomrod  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:13:30pm

re: #35 Charles

Actually, no. I don't need to agree with that at all.

Where have I heard "state's rights" before?

Oh yes: [Link: www.civilwarhome.com...]

States' Rights will be a damaged term forever. If they mean "decentralized government" that's fine. But, to purposely use States' Rights indicates a soft-spot for slavery. I hope they don't mean it.

53 Nevergiveup  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:13:36pm

re: #45 hazzyday

They'll have another war with Mexico over drugs and gangs. It would get ugly. The US would intervene.

On who's side?
/

54 reine.de.tout  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:14:21pm

re: #51 LudwigVanQuixote

I've had them shouted to my face.

Really?

55 Egregious Philbin  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:14:27pm

Its gonna take a miracle for the creationists...wait, what?

56 kansas  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:14:34pm

re: #40 Shiplord Kirel

Stripping the elected board of its authority is not the way to proceed. This would place future curricula in the hands of less accountable entities, especially including the bureaucratic Texas Education Agency. A legislative board would be at least as bad as the current one with the additional disadvantage of diluted accountability for education.

Pro-science Texans must first persuade Governor Perry to remove McLeroy as president of the board (an appointed position) if possible, and to at least not re-appoint him or appoint a similar nut when the current term expires. We must then become involved in every way possible to ensure the election of pro-science members.

Kooks take control of school boards because most of the voters are just not paying attention to these elections. We must get their attention, explain the stakes, and make it clear just what a laughingstock people like McLeroy really are. This must become a major electoral issue. It's a tall order, I know, but pro-science activists are continually citing the magnitude of the problem. They can start behaving accordingly. It will take money, work, and time, as well as the fortitude to confront some of the most vicious liars this side of Hollywood. If it is really that important, and it is, those things will be forthcoming.

A few years ago here in Kansas kooks took control of the state board because kooks took control of the Republican Party. This resulted in many defections to the Democrat Party, Lt. Gov, and AG for two, and eventually the kooks got voted off the board.

57 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:14:54pm

re: #44 Killgore Trout

State's Rights has been the refuge of nutcases and bad ideas throughout our history. It never ends up well for those who try to push their luck with it.

Um... actually, they really were an integral part of the drafting of the U.S. Constitution, and the formation of the Republic as we know it.

Unless you think that was a "bad idea".

58 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:14:54pm

re: #52 NukeAtomrod

States' Rights will be a damaged term forever. If they mean "decentralized government" that's fine. But, to purposely use States' Rights indicates a soft-spot for slavery. I hope they don't mean it.

That is part of why I wrote that other comment so vehemently.

59 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:15:56pm

re: #54 reine.de.tout

Really?

Try being "the scientist" at a discussion about these things that is open to the general public.

60 devil in baggy pants  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:16:13pm

re: #35 Charles

Well, to be picky, the Constitution actually enumerates states' "powers", not rights (those belong to citizens).

And I fail to see how it's a bad thing to remind the federal government that their powers are, indeed, LIMITED.

61 albusteve  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:16:46pm

I can't believe what I'm hearing...is Federalism a bad idea that'ts come to it's end?....good grief

62 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:17:19pm

re: #40 Shiplord Kirel

Stripping the elected board of its authority is not the way to proceed. This would place future curricula in the hands of less accountable entities, especially including the bureaucratic Texas Education Agency. A legislative board would be at least as bad as the current one with the additional disadvantage of diluted accountability for education.

Pro-science Texans must first persuade Governor Perry to remove McLeroy as president of the board (an appointed position) if possible, and to at least not re-appoint him or appoint a similar nut when the current term expires. We must then become involved in every way possible to ensure the election of pro-science members.

Kooks take control of school boards because most of the voters are just not paying attention to these elections. We must get their attention, explain the stakes, and make it clear just what a laughingstock people like McLeroy really are. This must become a major electoral issue. It's a tall order, I know, but pro-science activists are continually citing the magnitude of the problem. They can start behaving accordingly. It will take money, work, and time, as well as the fortitude to confront some of the most vicious liars this side of Hollywood. If it is really that important, and it is, those things will be forthcoming.

I think you raise some good points. Perhaps a better solution would be to allow the local boards to decide these matters. It's much closer to home that way vs. a state board.

63 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:17:24pm

re: #41 Bloodnok

I think it also feeds into the paranoia that is so rampant on the right these days. Some nuts might take this too far.
Also we are in the midst of a very serious financial crisis. I really don't appreciate people trying to add a Constitutional crisis to the mix and destabilize the country further. It's not helpful and it makes me angry.

64 kansas  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:17:25pm

re: #61 albusteve

I can't believe what I'm hearing...is Federalism a bad idea that'ts come to it's end?....good grief

Where you hearing that?

65 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:17:26pm

re: #52 NukeAtomrod

States' Rights will be a damaged term forever. If they mean "decentralized government" that's fine.

I agree that "States' rights" is a damaged term from the Civil Rights era, but, when it comes to "decentralized government"... States are what we've got.

66 VioletTiger  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:18:05pm

Do the people electing these board members understand their positions? Sometimes very few people show up to vote when there are elections for school board members. Tax dollars support schools. Even though we sent our kid to private shcool, we vote in almost every school-related special election.

67 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:18:51pm

re: #60 devil in baggy pants

Well, to be picky, the Constitution actually enumerates states' "powers", not rights (those belong to citizens).

And I fail to see how it's a bad thing to remind the federal government that their powers are, indeed, LIMITED.

What you are saying is reasonable. The people doing this though do not have such pure motives. It is nothing more than political posturing, obfuscation of real issues, petty acts of meaningless "defiance" and a totally tasteless raising of the specter of the worst tragedy this nation has faced.

68 reine.de.tout  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:19:50pm

re: #59 LudwigVanQuixote

Try being "the scientist" at a discussion about these things that is open to the general public.

Oh, golly.
No, thank you.

69 funky chicken  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:19:57pm

re: #4 Emerald

Hopefully, the Republicans will realize they are doing far more damage to the party by pandering to these fringe elements before they destroy too much of the party's credibility.

Don't hold your breath.

Perry may as well be a Howard Dean-selected mole for all the damage this will do to the TX GOP.

70 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:20:09pm

re: #24 LudwigVanQuixote

because you know that evolutionism leads to gayness, atheism and NAZIS!

But not necessarily in that order.

/

71 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:20:54pm

re: #70 Occasional Reader

But not necessarily in that order.

/

OK, you made me snort soda through my nose with that!

72 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:21:02pm

re: #50 Ward Cleaver

There's a saying here that we need to keep our hands on our wallets when the legislature is in session, but at least they're not full time like they are in California. They only meet here for 140 days every other year.

And there would be some(me) who would have them meet 1 day every 140 years...or some such.

73 albusteve  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:21:10pm

re: #63 Killgore Trout

I think it also feeds into the paranoia that is so rampant on the right these days. Some nuts might take this too far.
Also we are in the midst of a very serious financial crisis. I really don't appreciate people trying to add a Constitutional crisis to the mix and destabilize the country further. It's not helpful and it makes me angry.

considering the Dems and far leftist policies of intrusion and power grabbing using the feds as the means to control, I have to disagree...if there is to be a Constitutional showdown it will almost certainly be inspired by the left

74 solomonpanting  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:21:44pm
Over the years, the Texas board has been aggressive about editing submitted textbooks before granting approval. Publishers have been asked to delete -- among other things -- favorable references to Islam, discussions of global warming, and illustrations of breast and testicular self-exams,
75 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:22:20pm

Concerning States Rights: in this context it has to do with stimulus money, right? The solution isn't in pushing the tenth amendment so much as it is pushing spending reforms in Washington.

76 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:22:24pm

re: #57 Occasional Reader

I understand and appreciate the premise. However, historically it has been used to preserve slavery, segregation, and a whole lot of other immoral and nutty causes. We've fought wars over this kind of thing. It never works out well. It's another horrible and disastrous idea that conservatives seem to love. It also isn't going to win friends with the rest of the country that simply wants to work to repair our economy. It's not helpful.

77 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:22:44pm

Don't want to be an American idiot.
One nation controlled by the media.
Information age of hysteria.
It's calling out to idiot America...

-- Green Day

78 Bloodnok  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:22:56pm

re: #63 Killgore Trout

I think it also feeds into the paranoia that is so rampant on the right these days. Some nuts might take this too far.
Also we are in the midst of a very serious financial crisis. I really don't appreciate people trying to add a Constitutional crisis to the mix and destabilize the country further. It's not helpful and it makes me angry.

What a precedent they are setting. I look forward to this repeating itself if there is a Republican President (or Congress) and a Democrat governor of Texas.

79 hazzyday  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:23:36pm

re: #63 Killgore Trout

I think it also feeds into the paranoia that is so rampant on the right these days. Some nuts might take this too far.
Also we are in the midst of a very serious financial crisis. I really don't appreciate people trying to add a Constitutional crisis to the mix and destabilize the country further. It's not helpful and it makes me angry.

Paranoia doesn't discriminate. It's an equal opportunity offender. It's just the street corner you're hanging out on.

80 funky chicken  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:23:46pm

re: #59 LudwigVanQuixote

Try being "the scientist" at a discussion about these things that is open to the general public.

A friend taught ancient history at a community college in northern Colorado Springs (home to Focus on the Family and Ted Haggard's New Life Church). He got that kind of response when he taught about Zoroaster. I guess Zoroaster's life story is similar enough to Jesus's to really bring out the fire and brimstone in a lot of his students.

81 jaunte  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:24:23pm

re: #76 Killgore Trout

The case law summary that wikipedia has on the subject is interesting:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

82 Bloodnok  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:24:35pm

re: #75 Sharmuta

Concerning States Rights: in this context it has to do with stimulus money, right? The solution isn't in pushing the tenth amendment so much as it is pushing spending reforms in Washington.

(Cue the Balanced Budget Amendment's theme music)

83 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:25:06pm

re: #78 Bloodnok

What a precedent they are setting. I look forward to this repeating itself if there is a Republican President (or Congress) and a Democrat governor of Texas.

Exactly. Imagine if this happened every time we had an election. Half of the states would rise up and try to leave the union. It's a very dangerous precedent to set.

84 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:25:16pm

re: #78 Bloodnok

What a precedent they are setting. I look forward to this repeating itself if there is a Republican President (or Congress) and a Democrat governor of Texas.

Kinky Friedman's thinking about running again next year, only as a Dem, not independent.

85 Dar ul Harb  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:25:54pm

re: #39 hazzyday

Republican is to Creationism as Democrat is to Social Justice.

Neither is meant for modern consumption. The Seattle Times the other day was making fun of Gov. Jindal's lack of common sense in ragging on the volcano monitoring and then to have a volcano erupt shortly thereafter. The warnings went out, air traffic was altered.

Or maybe it's just that God is showing his displeasure are his creationist followers by throwing hurricanes and volcano's at their Governor's

What? A volcano in Louisiana?

/i believe! i believe!

86 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:26:13pm

re: #81 jaunte

I skimmed through that this morning. My guess is that congress will just cut off funding to Texas if they push too far.

87 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:26:15pm

re: #77 Spare O'Lake

Don't want to be an American idiot.
One nation controlled by the media.
Information age of hysteria.
It's calling out to idiot America...

-- Green Day

Good lyric choice, though I doubt the band would approve. Green Day is quite liberal.

88 cronus  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:26:28pm

re: #40 Shiplord Kirel

You raised a couple good points that are getting lost in the concern creationists are causing. Conservatives might very well prefer direct election in these situations since traditionally school board conservatives are better at holding the education bureaucracy's feet to the fire on budgets and other curriculum issues unrelated to evolution.

It is really those conservatives that are truly concerned with education and checking the power plays of the teachers' unions who are getting screwed over by the shenanigans of McLeroy and company.

89 albusteve  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:26:37pm

re: #76 Killgore Trout

I understand and appreciate the premise. However, historically it has been used to preserve slavery, segregation, and a whole lot of other immoral and nutty causes. We've fought wars over this kind of thing. It never works out well. It's another horrible and disastrous idea that conservatives seem to love. It also isn't going to win friends with the rest of the country that simply wants to work to repair our economy. It's not helpful.

slavery and segregation is not an issue....the repressive victim/entitlement mentality...legal theft called taxation and economy driven down into the dirt by the left is...

90 jaunte  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:27:01pm

re: #86 Killgore Trout

I don't think it will get that extreme.

91 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:27:04pm

re: #89 albusteve

Yes, Tea Party. I get it.

92 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:27:45pm

Rick Perry's 10th amendment statement is nothing more than political opportunist grandstanding. This is a man who cares so little about the children in his own state that he appointed a creationist to head the school board, twice.

He's trying to capitalize on the tax day tea parties.

Politics stinks.

93 Mich-again  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:28:02pm

Having someone hostile to science exerting some control over curriculum is as dumb as having someone whose formal education is in Education (like most all school Principals) managing a multimillion dollar enterprise (like a school).

So yes definitely We need to rid all the local and State boards of people who are ignorant of science and reject facts and reason.

But keep in mind that millions of American kids are undereducated not so much because of poor curriculum but because schools are grossly mismanaged. Which should be no surprise of course. What in a teacher's formal training prepares them to manage an operation like a school? Let me guess. They go to a seminar?

94 albusteve  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:28:07pm

re: #91 Killgore Trout

Yes, Tea Party. I get it.

tea parties are the result, not the cause

95 Banner  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:28:40pm

Well considering that the jury is still out on Global Warming, I don't mind the part that raises doubts about that, because lets face it, there still isn't any conclusive evidence on that score. But the rest is getting to be a little ridiculous.

96 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:28:42pm

re: #89 albusteve

legal theft called taxation

Ah, you're overstating your case a bit.

Any government of any sort has to have "taxation" of one form or another.

97 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:30:27pm

re: #88 cronus

You raised a couple good points that are getting lost in the concern creationists are causing. Conservatives might very well prefer direct election in these situations since traditionally school board conservatives are better at holding the education bureaucracy's feet to the fire on budgets and other curriculum issues unrelated to evolution.

It is really those conservatives that are truly concerned with education and checking the power plays of the teachers' unions who are getting screwed over by the shenanigans of McLeroy and company.

Agreed. The answer to that is run candidates against them, people who won't be crazy. People who will address the real issues schools face, not those who want to shove their dogma down kids throats.

98 albusteve  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:30:30pm

re: #96 Occasional Reader

Ah, you're overstating your case a bit.

Any government of any sort has to have "taxation" of one form or another.

it becomes oppressive...the feds are an out of control beast that specializes in waste...we could do far more with less

99 funky chicken  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:30:54pm

re: #56 kansas

A few years ago here in Kansas kooks took control of the state board because kooks took control of the Republican Party. This resulted in many defections to the Democrat Party, Lt. Gov, and AG for two, and eventually the kooks got voted off the board.

Yep. I had a front row seat for the early years of it. I was shocked to see that it was still a hot issue as recently as 2005/2006. It started way back in the early 1990s.

TX will be lucky if they don't have to screw with these nutjobs for over a decade, but if I had to place a bet, I think it will go just like KS, unfortunately.

100 Dar ul Harb  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:31:04pm

re: #57 Occasional Reader

Um... actually, they really were an integral part of the drafting of the U.S. Constitution, and the formation of the Republic as we know it.

Unless you think that was a "bad idea".

Well, they can say federalism then.

States rights is a little too Stars and Bars.

(Anyway, states don't have rights, they have powers.)

101 Alberta Oil Peon  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:31:25pm

So if the Texas School Board Creationists are facing curbs, does that mean they are in the gutters? Keep that up, and wind up under the bus.

102 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:31:51pm

re: #85 Dar ul Harb

What? A volcano in Louisiana?

/i believe! i believe!

Global magma-ing!

103 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:32:22pm

re: #100 Dar ul Harb

Well, they can say federalism then.

States rights is a little too Stars and Bars.

(Anyway, states don't have rights, they have powers.)

Yeah, good point.

104 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:32:35pm

re: #82 Bloodnok

(Cue the Balanced Budget Amendment's theme music)

I made a phone call regarding that today, seeking a council with two trusted politicos. We'll see what happens- they're quite serious about taking back Congress in 2010, and they're not too fond of bloggers wasting time on pizzas.

105 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:32:50pm

re: #80 funky chicken

A friend taught ancient history at a community college in northern Colorado Springs (home to Focus on the Family and Ted Haggard's New Life Church). He got that kind of response when he taught about Zoroaster. I guess Zoroaster's life story is similar enough to Jesus's to really bring out the fire and brimstone in a lot of his students.

I had one of these people look over to his cronies when I was making the case that the universe was actually much older than several thousand years, and say:

"Well what do you expect from a Christ Killer."

First time I ever heard that. They all seemed to take it as a winning argument.

106 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:32:53pm

re: #87 Dark_Falcon

Good lyric choice, though I doubt the band would approve. Green Day is quite liberal.

Those are verbatim from the song. Green Day may be quite liberal but the writer of this song is anti-idiotarian. Here are the complete lyrics:

Don't want to be an American idiot.
Don't want a nation under the new mania
And can you hear the sound of hysteria?
The subliminal mind fuck America.

Welcome to a new kind of tension.
All across the alien nation.
Where everything isn't meant to be okay.
Television dreams of tomorrow.
We're not the ones who're meant to follow.
For that's enough to argue.

Well maybe I'm the faggot America.
I'm not a part of a redneck agenda.
Now everybody do the propaganda.
And sing along to the age of paranoia.

Welcome to a new kind of tension.
All across the alien nation.
Where everything isn't meant to be okay.
Television dreams of tomorrow.
We're not the ones who're meant to follow.
For that's enough to argue.

Don't want to be an American idiot.
One nation controlled by the media.
Information age of hysteria.
It's calling out to idiot America.

Welcome to a new kind of tension.
All across the alien nation.
Where everything isn't meant to be okay.
Television dreams of tomorrow.
We're not the ones who're meant to follow.
For that's enough to argue.


107 Bloodnok  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:33:54pm

re: #104 Sharmuta

I made a phone call regarding that today, seeking a council with two trusted politicos. We'll see what happens- they're quite serious about taking back Congress in 2010, and they're not too fond of bloggers wasting time on pizzas.

+1994

108 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:34:08pm

re: #107 Bloodnok

LOL!

109 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:35:00pm

re: #106 Spare O'Lake

I don't really see "anti-idiotarian" in those lyrics, I just see regular ol' knee-jerk "I hate America" leftism.

110 NukeAtomrod  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:35:09pm

re: #65 Occasional Reader

I agree that "States' rights" is a damaged term from the Civil Rights era, but, when it comes to "decentralized government"... States are what we've got.

Terminology is important. The Political Correctness movement wants to dilute all meaning from our language either to "avoid offending anyone" or, more likely, deceive everyone. I assert that we need to make our words very specific and more meaningful instead.

You are correct. States are our form of decentralized government. That is what our Constitution requires. Let's not use a Civil War Era code word for Slavers' Rights when we are defending our form of government.

(Note: During the period in question, Non-Slave states were expected to return escaped slaves to their home states. Slave states hired bounty hunters to track down those slaves in the Non-Slave states, thus violating the "rights" of the state in question.)

111 VioletTiger  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:35:40pm

re: #104 Sharmuta

I made a phone call regarding that today, seeking a council with two trusted politicos. We'll see what happens- they're quite serious about taking back Congress in 2010, and they're not too fond of bloggers wasting time on pizzas.


If we want to be successful in 2010 and beyond, we have got to get people off of these stupid meaningless issues like pizzas and puppies and focus on the important things. All of this drivel is just making conservative look foolish.

112 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:36:02pm

re: #110 NukeAtomrod

Terminology is important. The Political Correctness movement wants to dilute all meaning from our language either to "avoid offending anyone" or, more likely, deceive everyone. I assert that we need to make our words very specific and more meaningful instead.

You are correct. States are our form of decentralized government. That is what our Constitution requires. Let's not use a Civil War Era code word for Slavers' Rights when we are defending our form of government.

(Note: During the period in question, Non-Slave states were expected to return escaped slaves to their home states. Slave states hired bounty hunters to track down those slaves in the Non-Slave states, thus violating the "rights" of the state in question.)

Excellent post!

113 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:36:25pm

There is no need to sabotage the elected board simply because kooks are temporarily in control. The consequences of this could be severe in the future.

We can do the same thing they did in Kansas, focus the light on the kooks until they are voted out of office. The trick is doing it without defecting to the Democrats or empowering them in any way. This may be more doable in Texas, which I would venture to guess has proportionally more pro-science conservatives than Kansas. Texas has more professional PhD geologists than any other state, at any rate, and they are not a notably soft-headed or moonbattish bunch.

114 Salem  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:36:33pm

OT: You are being lied to about pirates!

R! The comments section: OMFG.

115 Shug  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:36:42pm

Kind of ironic that Green Day is singing about an american idiot

116 WestTexas  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:37:16pm

I know that Texas is a focal point of the creationism debate, and I am happy to see that some of the elected representatives are becoming fed up. It pains me to see my beloved state tarred in such a fashion though. Most Texans are sensible, hard working honest people. Please do not assume that the majority of us are backwards thinking nut jobs.

117 Unakite  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:38:17pm

re: #89 albusteve

slavery and segregation is not an issue....the repressive victim/entitlement mentality...legal theft called taxation and economy driven down into the dirt by the left is...

re: #96 Occasional Reader

Ah, you're overstating your case a bit.

Any government of any sort has to have "taxation" of one form or another.

I saw a sign today that that said, "if you take money you didn't earn, it's a crime; if the someone else takes money you did earn, it's a tax."

118 Alberta Oil Peon  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:38:27pm

re: #105 LudwigVanQuixote

I had one of these people look over to his cronies when I was making the case that the universe was actually much older than several thousand years, and say:

"Well what do you expect from a Christ Killer."

First time I ever heard that. They all seemed to take it as a winning argument.

I never could see the sense in that "Christ Killer" libel. After all, the Resurrection is the fundamental doctrine of Christianity, and even a Deity cannot be resurrected without first having died. The Crucifixion was an absolutely necessary prelude to the Resurrection.

119 Mich-again  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:38:53pm

The 10th amendment is deader than a doornail. The 17th amendment killed it.

Because once the election of US Senators went to popular vote the Senate became a haven for career politicians who represent themselves and their Party instead of representing their home State.

I have said here many times the 17th amendment took away one of the key features of the system for self-government designed by the Founding Fathers. Repeal it. Let the State Legislatures pick the Senators.

120 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:38:59pm

re: #114 Salem

OT: You are being lied to about pirates!

R! The comments section: OMFG.

Just the very first one is priceless:

The Somalis have had their country broken since the US declared a famine there in 1993, and went in with guns blazing.

Yep, we "declared a famine" in Somalia! Wow.

121 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:39:18pm

re: #111 VioletTiger

If we want to be successful in 2010 and beyond, we have got to get people off of these stupid meaningless issues like pizzas and puppies and focus on the important things. All of this drivel is just making conservative look foolish.

I agree. I'm going to do what I can to change that. We'll see what happens.

122 cronus  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:39:46pm

re: #116 WestTexas

I know that Texas is a focal point of the creationism debate, and I am happy to see that some of the elected representatives are becoming fed up. It pains me to see my beloved state tarred in such a fashion though. Most Texans are sensible, hard working honest people. Please do not assume that the majority of us are backwards thinking nut jobs.

I for one don't assume that about Texas. The irony is that Texas is home to some of the smartest scientists in the world particularly in the aerospace and energy industries.

123 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:39:56pm

re: #97 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. The answer to that is run candidates against them, people who won't be crazy. People who will address the real issues schools face, not those who want to shove their dogma down kids throats.

Except, sane people rarely want the job and these people rarely run on their own. Those who run are political appointees - ones who are there as part of some ticket, whose names you first see at the polling place. The only time they come up from under that cloud - the cloud of getting voted in with the rest of a party vote - is in places like Dover where the individuals have distinguished themselves enough to cause a backlash.

The real problem is that the GOP keeps running these loons.

124 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:40:10pm

re: #117 Unakite

I saw a sign today that that said, "if you take money you didn't earn, it's a crime; if the someone else takes money you did earn, it's a tax."

Cute, but again, overstates the case.

We all agree we need national defense, right? What pays for that?

125 Shug  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:40:18pm

re: #114 Salem

OT: You are being lied to about pirates!

R! The comments section: OMFG.

wow.

I like this one

Cracker, please. All you racist, crackers, please
126 Dar ul Harb  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:40:23pm

re: #120 Occasional Reader

Yep, we "declared a famine" in Somalia! Wow.

That damn unilateralist cowboy Bill Clinton!
/

127 Christopher Luebcke  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:40:37pm

re: #3 NukeAtomrod

The Republicans pander to the Creationists. The Democrats are hostile to anything Christian. It's a lose-lose situation.

Replace "Christian" with "Evangelical" and you might have something there. As it stands, your statement is demonstrably untrue just about anywhere in local or national politics.

128 Chip Designer  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:40:56pm

When the Texas Legislature met in January, the Republican party split, with a large number siding with the Democrats. We sill have a Republican speaker, but it is a much more liberal body than it was. That is one reason for the attempts to reign in the School Board.

129 Salem  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:41:06pm

re: #120 Occasional Reader

Yep, we "declared a famine" in Somalia! Wow.

That guy is a scream, for sure.

130 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:41:46pm

re: #106 Spare O'Lake

Yep, it is a good song. I do like their music.

131 Shug  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:41:54pm

Mark " The Bird" Fidrych throwing a game at Tiger Stadium on ESPN Classics

RIP

132 Dar ul Harb  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:41:56pm

re: #129 Salem

That guy is a scream, for sure.

Now that's the real war on poverty, eh?

/

133 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:42:03pm

re: #118 Alberta Oil Peon

I never could see the sense in that "Christ Killer" libel. After all, the Resurrection is the fundamental doctrine of Christianity, and even a Deity cannot be resurrected without first having died. The Crucifixion was an absolutely necessary prelude to the Resurrection.

My friend, you are sensible. These people are not. I can look at their delusions in the same way that I look on the person who is certain that aliens have probed him and are tracking his thoughts with the help of the black helicopters. I have given up trying to make sense of it.

134 WestTexas  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:42:09pm

re: #122 cronus

I know. :-) It is a large point of pride to me that my state refines approximately a quarter of the nations oil products and has an economy that is strong. I honestly have not really felt much of a sting from the recession. I thank God everyday I was born in this state, and in America.

135 Mich-again  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:42:40pm

re: #124 Occasional Reader

We all agree we need national defense, right? What pays for that?

You can't have a strong military without a strong economy paying the bills.

136 Unakite  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:42:55pm

re: #124 Occasional Reader

Cute, but again, overstates the case.

We all agree we need national defense, right? What pays for that?

I totally agree, just humorous coincidence.

137 Dar ul Harb  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:44:51pm

That's Right, You're Not From Texas

138 Taqiyyotomist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:45:22pm

re: #114 Salem

Wow, there's some kooks out there. Yikes.

139 albusteve  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:45:28pm

re: #135 Mich-again

You can't have a strong military without a strong economy paying the bills.

exactly....you'd think that issue need not have to be nuanced...c'mon....arbitrary and excessive taxation is a larger potential problem than secession...think capital gains and inheritance taxes

140 Salem  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:45:34pm

re: #132 Dar ul Harb

Now that's the real war on poverty, eh?

/

bob, on April 12th, 2009 at 12:11 pm Said:

who cares, nuke the whole country.. they are useless

141 VioletTiger  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:45:44pm

re: #114 Salem

Soon, the pirates will hire a PR firm.
Maybe the same one as the Sea Kittens.......

142 albusteve  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:46:11pm

re: #141 VioletTiger

Soon, the pirates will hire a PR firm.
Maybe the same one as the Sea Kittens.......

they have one...the UN

143 WestTexas  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:48:23pm

re: #122 cronus

I only have one bumper sticker on my car. "American by birth, Texan by the grace of God." lol I found it in an army surplus store and had to have it.

144 Shug  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:48:24pm

re: #142 albusteve

they have one...the UN

Strongly worded messages in a bottle

145 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:48:31pm

re: #114 Salem

It's nice to see some left wing craziness for a change.

146 Salem  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:49:15pm

re: #141 VioletTiger

Soon, the pirates will hire a PR firm.
Maybe the same one as the Sea Kittens.......

Interestingly, the article is from February. They surely have gotten a publicity boom since then.

147 Shug  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:49:31pm

re: #145 Killgore Trout

It's nice to see some left wing craziness for a change.

It's always been there. It's just been drowned out by some even louder right wing craziness.

148 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:49:50pm

re: #125 Shug

Proper response to that comment: Moron, please.

149 Taqiyyotomist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:50:04pm

re: #141 VioletTiger

Apparantly they have, and the firm has an online presence called SFBayView dot com. Their main PR rep seems to be a dude named Johann Hari who uses the term "racist cracker" with absolutely no sense of irony.

150 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:50:16pm

re: #142 albusteve

they have one...the UN


[Link: www.comedycentral.com...]

151 gmsc  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:50:19pm

re: #141 VioletTiger

Soon, the pirates will hire a PR firm.
Maybe the same one as the Sea Kittens.......

Fenway Nation, on last night's thread had the best new term for them:

re: #236 Fenway_Nation

Heh....listening to a tape-delay of the Lars Larsen show just now and a caller suggested (in the same vein as 0bama changing the name of the 'War on Terror') that pirates should be referred to as 'Mobilized Aquatic Community Organizers'...

152 nyc redneck  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:50:21pm

re: #137 Dar ul Harb

i was crazy abt. lyle until i met him.

153 Salem  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:50:38pm

re: #145 Killgore Trout

It's nice to see some left wing craziness for a change.

There's some right wing crazies there, too. They are locked in a sort of primal dance of hate over there.

154 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:50:39pm

re: #129 Salem

That guy is a scream, for sure.

Bay Area Moonbats, there are none crazier.

155 hiddenlizard  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:51:50pm

the religious right has screwed around with the educational system in Texas (K-12) since the 60s. Heritage Foundation had intimate ties to it. GOP caught on. It wasn't an innocent accident. Ask yourself; is America for medieval mysticism and theocracy? Or is there a separation between church and state?

156 VioletTiger  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:52:31pm

re: #149 Taqiyyotomist

How can you not laugh at the words pirate and cracker in the same sentence?

157 Unakite  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:52:36pm

re: #141 VioletTiger

Soon, the pirates will hire a PR firm.
Maybe the same one as the Sea Kittens.......

It just seems odd to me that they take internet piracy so much more seriously than international piracy.

Music companies (claim to) lose millions, arrest to college students! Attack ships, put lives in danger, and demand millions in ransom, ho-hum.
/heh, maybe not so much now.

158 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:52:44pm

re: #139 albusteve

exactly....you'd think that issue need not have to be nuanced...c'mon....arbitrary and excessive taxation is a larger potential problem than secession...think capital gains and inheritance taxes

That's why the 10th Amendment isn't the baby they should be pushing, but rather spending reforms in Washington.

159 Taqiyyotomist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:52:50pm

That guy at Salem's link must be angling for a position at the New York Times. That is quite possibly the most insane thing I've read all year.

160 Boxy_brown  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:52:56pm
"It’s shameful that these kinds of anti-science initiatives are always owned by the Republican Party."

Well, the Democrats have pretty much shut down any debate as to whether or not "global warming(tm)" is man made...

161 Mich-again  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:53:06pm

If the problem is pirates, the solution is to release the Cracken aka the US Navy. There is no scarier sea monster.

162 dkorta  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:53:35pm

re: #118 Alberta Oil Peon

I never could see the sense in that "Christ Killer" libel. After all, the Resurrection is the fundamental doctrine of Christianity, and even a Deity cannot be resurrected without first having died. The Crucifixion was an absolutely necessary prelude to the Resurrection.

Excellent points which are seldom made.

163 albusteve  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:53:47pm

re: #150 LudwigVanQuixote

[Link: www.comedycentral.com...]

ha...swag bag

164 VioletTiger  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:53:47pm

re: #151 gmsc

That's a great term.

165 Shug  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:53:51pm

re: #161 Mich-again

If the problem is pirates, the solution is to release the Cracken aka the US Navy. There is no scarier sea monster.

Cracken, please. All you racist, crackens, please

/

166 NukeAtomrod  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:54:04pm

re: #127 Christopher Luebcke

Replace "Christian" with "Evangelical" and you might have something there. As it stands, your statement is demonstrably untrue just about anywhere in local or national politics.

I admit I'm using an overly large brush here, but when Biden and Pelosi have so recently tried to lecture the Pope on the historical position of the Catholic church, I think I am justified in saying that the Democrats are hostile to more that just the Evangelicals.

167 Salem  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:54:16pm

Note that 90% of the comments are from the last couple of days even though the article is months old.

168 Dar ul Harb  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:54:23pm

re: #161 Mich-again

Good "Clash Of The Titans" reference!

/Let's get Kraken!

169 Taqiyyotomist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:54:23pm

re: #165 Shug

LOL with the comma. HAHAHaaaaaa :) :)

170 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:54:32pm

re: #109 Occasional Reader

I don't really see "anti-idiotarian" in those lyrics, I just see regular ol' knee-jerk "I hate America" leftism.

The lyrics certainly decry the MSM and are a wake-up cry for the audience to stop swallowing what is being shovelled their way.
No doubt the song, released in 2004, was directed at the Bush administration, but listening to the lyrics today, I find them strangely applicable to the Obama administration and today's media.

171 Killer Tomato  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:55:08pm

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln....
The President would've been shot about an hour ago. (Good Friday, April 14, 1865) He passed away at 7:22am the following morning.

(no particular reason for this - just thought of it when I saw the CW related posts)

172 Alberta Oil Peon  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:55:46pm

re: #168 Dar ul Harb

Good "Clash Of The Titans" reference!

/Let's get Kraken!

Golly! Wouldn't "Awaken the Kraken" be one hell of an advertising slogan for V***ra?

173 Dar ul Harb  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:55:46pm

re: #156 VioletTiger

How can you not laugh at the words pirate and cracker in the same sentence?

*squawk*
Shivermetimbers
*squawk*

174 razorbacker  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:55:51pm

I once knew a fellow who was convinced that agents of the government were listening to his conversations and monitoring his every move.

I asked him, 'Why? All that you do is sit in this apartment and smoke dope. The only places that you go are to KFC, the convenience store, and to your dealer's house. Why in the world would anyone waste time and money spying on you?'

We're still friendly, but we're not as close anymore.

175 solomonpanting  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:56:35pm

Start by cutting off their buccan ears. Then work southward.

176 albusteve  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:56:50pm

re: #158 Sharmuta

That's why the 10th Amendment isn't the baby they should be pushing, but rather spending reforms in Washington.

if anything will doom the left it is spending...that's one thing that never changes...it will catch up to them (I hope)...there is alot of perception and psychology to overcome

177 gmsc  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:56:56pm

re: #171 Killer Tomato

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln....
The President would've been shot about an hour ago. (Good Friday, April 14, 1865) He passed away at 7:22am the following morning.

(no particular reason for this - just thought of it when I saw the CW related posts)

April 14th wasn't a good day all around. It's also the day in 1912 that the Titanic hit an iceberg.

178 Taqiyyotomist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:57:21pm

re: #170 Spare O'Lake

My favorite is Living Colour's "Cult of Personality"

Those lyrics are incredible, especially in light of very recent history.

179 VioletTiger  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:57:51pm

re: #157 Unakite

It just seems odd to me that they take internet piracy so much more seriously than international piracy.

Music companies (claim to) lose millions, arrest to college students! Attack ships, put lives in danger, and demand millions in ransom, ho-hum.
/heh, maybe not so much now.

It's a lot easier to harass students and retirees than people with semi automatic weapons, apparently. It is a mess out there. Now would be a good time to do something about it.

180 Taqiyyotomist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 7:59:53pm

re: #178 Taqiyyotomist


Reid's solo rocks in that song.

181 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:00:22pm

re: #176 albusteve

if anything will doom the left it is spending...that's one thing that never changes...it will catch up to them (I hope)...there is alot of perception and psychology to overcome

Actually- big spending caught up to the republicans. They're supposed to be the party that works against big spending(read: more power in Washington) than the democrats. We expect democrats to be big spenders. When republicans do it, they undermine themselves. It was big spending socialist republicans that lost us Congress. If a republican cannot support spending reforms, they should be removed from office and a pro-spending reform republican nominated in their place.

If republicans don't stand for tax cuts AND lower spending, what good are they?

182 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:01:14pm

re: #172 Alberta Oil Peon

Golly! Wouldn't "Awaken the Kraken" be one hell of an advertising slogan for V***ra?

Davy Jones Summons the Kraken:

183 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:01:35pm

Wow, it seems the dreaded stinky has used some selective forces on the Lizard pool... There has been no creationist meltdown as yet...

On a semi humorous note, we can see evolution at work in the blog.

184 gmsc  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:01:40pm

re: #157 Unakite

It just seems odd to me that they take internet piracy so much more seriously than international piracy.

Music companies (claim to) lose millions, arrest to college students! Attack ships, put lives in danger, and demand millions in ransom, ho-hum.
/heh, maybe not so much now.

That's because the international pirates aren't American.

Believe me, if those pirates had any connection with the USA, they'd be touted as the most evil force on the planet!

185 Unakite  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:01:53pm

re: #179 VioletTiger

It's a lot easier to harass students and retirees than people with semi automatic weapons, apparently. It is a mess out there. Now would be a good time to do something about it.

Agree.

186 Christopher Luebcke  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:02:32pm

re: #166 NukeAtomrod

I admit I'm using an overly large brush here, but when Biden and Pelosi have so recently tried to lecture the Pope on the historical position of the Catholic church, I think I am justified in saying that the Democrats are hostile to more that just the Evangelicals.

Granted, and all good.

187 razorbacker  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:02:39pm

This will not help you feel much better if you bought your home in 2006, but it is revealing nonetheless.

A history of existing home prices 1890 to present, in constant dollars.

188 Killer Tomato  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:02:51pm

re: #177 gmsc

April 14th wasn't a good day all around. It's also the day in 1912 that the Titanic hit an iceberg.

And she didn't sink until after midnight - making her demise April 15th, too.

189 Taqiyyotomist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:03:24pm

re: #183 LudwigVanQuixote

LOL! No, I think what you're seeing is evidence of Intelligent Design, as the extinctions you mention came from "on high", so to speak. :)

190 hiddenlizard  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:03:57pm

re: #3 NukeAtomrod

The Republicans pander to the Creationists. The Democrats are hostile to anything Christian. It's a lose-lose situation.

Well I am glad I don't vote for either and I use reason absolutely and have a personal relationship with reality! :D

191 gmsc  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:04:47pm

re: #188 Killer Tomato

And she didn't sink until after midnight - making her demise April 15th, too.

Hey - not much good happens on April 15th.

We all enter April with merriment and people saying "April Fool's!" Then, tax day hits, and we all leave the month saying "May day! May day!"

192 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:04:57pm

re: #189 Taqiyyotomist

LOL! No, I think what you're seeing is evidence of Intelligent Design, as the extinctions you mention came from "on high", so to speak. :)

I don't know... If a predator eats you, is it ID?

193 Taqiyyotomist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:04:58pm

re: #190 hiddenlizard

Oh, good God.. Don't tell Mandy that you didn't vote for McCain...

194 Bloodnok  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:06:14pm

Goodnight all!

Sharm, I hope your hand feels better tomorrow.

Nite.

195 Unakite  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:06:49pm

re: #184 gmsc

That's because the international pirates aren't American.

Believe me, if those pirates had any connection with the USA, they'd be touted as the most evil force on the planet!

If those pirates had any connection with the USA (especially if they had crossed our borders illegally), they'd probably be be given citizenship and a drivers license.
/(sarc an cynical)

196 albusteve  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:07:45pm

re: #181 Sharmuta

that's exactly the perception I alluded to...sadly it's not just a matter of moving forward but is also uphill as you say...it can be done tho...I don't really care so much about the tea parties in the streets but I hope the thing evolves into a spending referendum...there is not really that much time to spare either

197 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:08:00pm

re: #194 Bloodnok

good night and thanks

198 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:08:40pm

re: #196 albusteve

I'm working on it. Perhaps this weekend or next.

199 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:09:41pm

OT

From our friends the Spanish

6 Former Bush Appointees to be indicted in Spain

I do not recall Espana stepping up and volunteering to take any of the poor, tortured "victims" currently enjoying their stay at Gitmo, do you?

And, Although I admit ignorance of Spanish legal matters, I do not recall Spain indicting Saddam Hussien, the Mullahs of Iran, the House of Saud, Omar Hassan Ahmad al-Bashir of Sudan, Kim Jong Il, or any other politcal figures from any other country, can you?

200 hiddenlizard  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:09:58pm

re: #92 Charles

Rick Perry's 10th amendment statement is nothing more than political opportunist grandstanding. This is a man who cares so little about the children in his own state that he appointed a creationist to head the school board, twice.

He's trying to capitalize on the tax day tea parties.

Politics stinks.

Unfortunately, many others are doing this. Inject religion into politics and harass businessmen (Sarbanes-Oxley) on one day, then claim to support capitalism and freedom the next day. I won't name any names.

201 solomonpanting  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:10:58pm

re: #191 gmsc

Hey - not much good happens on April 15th.

Jackie Robinson debuted for Brooklyn 4/15/47.

1841 – birth of Joseph E. Seagram, Canadian distillery founder.

202 Shug  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:11:08pm

re: #199 Desert Dog

OT

From our friends the Spanish

6 Former Bush Appointees to be indicted in Spain

I do not recall Espana stepping up and volunteering to take any of the poor, tortured "victims" currently enjoying their stay at Gitmo, do you?

And, Although I admit ignorance of Spanish legal matters, I do not recall Spain indicting Saddam Hussien, the Mullahs of Iran, the House of Saud, Omar Hassan Ahmad al-Bashir of Sudan, Kim Jong Il, or any other politcal figures from any other country, can you?


and just when I'm really getting into Spanish wine too

203 VioletTiger  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:12:20pm

re: #199 Desert Dog
They are getting bold, aren't they? Will be interesting to see if Obama defends our citizens or looks the other way.

204 razorbacker  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:12:53pm

The Feds To Push For 'Truth' In Social-Media Marketing

The FTC is planning to hold marketers liable for false statements published on blogs and social networks—meaning companies or bloggers could get sued for saying a product was good if it really wasn’t.

I pray that this is instituted. Please let it be so.

'Cause I'm gonna sue the ass off the Democrat party just as soon as it is. They been lying about crappy products for years.

205 BlueCanuck  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:14:55pm

re: #201 solomonpanting

Jackie Robinson debuted for Brooklyn 4/15/47.

1841 – birth of Joseph E. Seagram, Canadian distillery founder.

I will drink to that. *hic*

206 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:15:15pm

re: #203 VioletTiger

They are getting bold, aren't they? Will be interesting to see if Obama defends our citizens or looks the other way.

Anyone here have a good grasp of Spanish? How do you say: "Mine your own business, assholes"

207 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:16:35pm

US ship attacked today by pirates, attack repelled, pirates fail to board ship
--BBC

208 Bob Dillon  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:16:38pm

re: #203 VioletTiger

They are getting bold, aren't they? Will be interesting to see if Obama defends our citizens or looks the other way.

al-Qaeda cracked the whip in Madrid. They are toeing the line.

209 Salamantis  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:16:47pm

Geez! Without creationist troll infestations to slap down with logic and evidence, I'm about as useful on one of these threads as tits on a boar hog!

210 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:17:21pm

I still agree with Thanos' point from long ago- pro-science, rational republicans have to quit sitting on the sidelines and start running for these school board seats.

211 albusteve  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:17:47pm

Nadirah and Jimmy....she has a cool new record out

212 favorednation  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:18:18pm

I'm a native Texan and I and I am quite proud of our Governor. I'm totally a Federalist! States writes RULE!

FN

213 razorbacker  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:18:46pm

re: #209 Salamantis

Geez! Without creationist troll infestations to slap down with logic and evidence, I'm about as useful on one of these threads as tits on a boar hog!

You know what Yogi said. This place has gotten so crowded that nobody comes here anymore.

214 VioletTiger  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:18:48pm

re: #209 Salamantis

Geez! Without creationist troll infestations to slap down with logic and evidence, I'm about as useful on one of these threads as tits on a boar hog!


You're always good to have around Salamantis. What's new with you?

215 Neutral President  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:18:54pm

re: #209 Salamantis

Geez! Without creationist troll infestations to slap down with logic and evidence, I'm about as useful on one of these threads as tits on a boar hog!

All the ZOMG DHS BROWNSHIRTS!1!1 kooks down 2 floors are taking up all the space. Creationists cant get in the door.

216 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:19:19pm

re: #212 favorednation

I'm a native Texan and I and I am quite proud of our Governor. I'm totally a Federalist! States writes RULE!

FN


*snicker*

217 gmsc  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:19:19pm

re: #207 Spare O'Lake

US ship attacked today by pirates, attack repelled, pirates fail to board ship
--BBC

Tomorrow's headline in the US media – "Rich, wealthy US ship refuses to help the poor."

218 stead63  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:19:23pm

You do have to understand that these people, just as any other right to assemble group, feel they deserve the same platform that the big bang believers have. The idea that spontaneous combustion yielding life, planets and universes has such an astronomically large(no pun intended) improbability of happening gives way for others to insert what they feel is correct. Do I agree, as a Christian, that this should be the "text book" explanation, no, but they both have one HUGE thing in common...Neither can be nailed down as either scientifically or rationally proven.

219 Shug  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:19:33pm

re: #212 favorednation

States writes RULE!

what do they write?

220 Salamantis  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:19:43pm

re: #212 favorednation

I'm a native Texan and I and I am quite proud of our Governor. I'm totally a Federalist! States writes RULE!

FN

And you're proud of that fucking YEC dolt McLeroy he appointed to head the State Board of Edcucation, too, I suppose?

221 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:19:46pm

re: #209 Salamantis

Geez! Without creationist troll infestations to slap down with logic and evidence, I'm about as useful on one of these threads as tits on a boar hog!

Not true. Your wit and wisdom will always have a place here.

222 VioletTiger  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:20:06pm

re: #208 Bobibutu

al-Qaeda cracked the whip in Madrid. They are toeing the line.

They caved, big time.

223 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:20:06pm

Ask and you shall receive, Sal.

224 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:20:29pm

Here they come.

225 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:20:50pm

re: #212 favorednation

I'm a native Texan and I and I am quite proud of our Governor. I'm totally a Federalist! States writes RULE!

FN

Hmm.

226 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:21:17pm

re: #218 stead63

You do have to understand that these people, just as any other right to assemble group, feel they deserve the same platform that the big bang believers have.

And as soon as they provide some empirical evidence to support their position, then they'll be welcome to that platform. But science isn't a democracy.

227 favorednation  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:21:18pm

rites :)

228 Shug  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:21:21pm

re: #212 favorednation

I'm a native Texan and I and I am quite proud of our Governor. I'm totally a Federalist! States writes RULE!

FN

Rick Perry and Don McLeroy are so busy trying to teach creationism in the schools they are skipping spelling lessons!

229 VioletTiger  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:21:21pm

re: #220 Salamantis

Dam! They followed you. You must be one of those dowsers.

230 Neutral President  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:21:37pm

re: #224 Charles

Here they come.

Haven't figure out if this is a troll or a moby yet though.

231 Bob Dillon  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:21:40pm

re: #222 VioletTiger

They caved, big time.

Yes - they are toeing al-Qs line.

232 Shug  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:21:41pm

re: #227 favorednation

rites :)


try again

233 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:22:11pm

re: #224 Charles

Here they come.

LOAD!

PRESENT!

FIRE!

234 jaunte  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:22:15pm

re: #232 Shug

roits?

235 albusteve  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:22:28pm

re: #232 Shug

try again

good grief

236 Mich-again  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:22:58pm

re: #218 stead63

Evolution is not an explanation for the creation of life.

237 albusteve  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:23:11pm

STATES ROIDS RULE!

238 favorednation  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:23:19pm

I learned my spellin' in tennassee

239 Dar ul Harb  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:23:20pm

re: #219 Shug

what do they write?

Rules, right?

240 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:23:46pm

re: #210 Sharmuta

I still agree with Thanos' point from long ago- pro-science, rational republicans have to quit sitting on the sidelines and start running for these school board seats.


School boards are one of the easiest offices to run for. There is little interest in these jobs from most people. In many instances, the work is barely paid and almost all of the members have other jobs and careers to pay the bills. BUT, in some instances, they wield wide power and can greatly effect what that particular district is teaching. Usually the more "motivated" members rise in the ranks. This is how the left took over our schools. From the local school boards, the text books, to the state standards. The left has had free reign in many places for years. I just wish more people from the right that are not motivated about this creationist nonsense would strive for these positions of power.

Right now, we have leftists and creationists battling it out....what an ugly battle.

241 Neutral President  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:24:17pm

I'm thinking more mobyesque than trollish now.

242 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:24:24pm

re: #151 gmsc

Hi GMSC, I have a favor to ask. My nic is blue!

243 Dar ul Harb  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:25:33pm

Droits d'etat roulez!

/a little Cajun lingo there

244 Salamantis  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:25:34pm

re: #230 ArchangelMichael

Haven't figure out if this is a troll or a moby yet though.

I think it's a drive-by snarking.

The delicious irony of a creationist Texan choosing the wrong homonym in order to applaud a governor who willfully miseducates the state's children is lost on someone so arrogantly obtuse.

245 stead63  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:25:38pm

re: #226 Sharmuta

And as soon as they provide some empirical evidence to support their position, then they'll be welcome to that platform. But science isn't a democracy.

Don't get me wrong, I am not fighting for this to be passed in my state. And YES there are people that cannot form the idea of separation of Church and State no matter what medium you beat them with. Just as there is NO evidence that Socialism OR Communism EVER worked people still fight for it tooth and nail and the worst part is...they are elected officials. Cough*Cough*Obama*Cough*

246 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:25:53pm

re: #237 albusteve

STATES ROIDS RULE!

States have been itching to get their 'roids back for many years.

247 Shug  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:26:09pm

Texas Creationists are trying to write rites into Biology class and that ain't right

248 BlueCanuck  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:26:41pm

re: #227 favorednation

Fail, again. Spell check isn't your friend I see.

249 VioletTiger  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:26:45pm

re: #246 Occasional Reader

States have been itching to get their 'roids back for many years.


Perhaps a little Preparation S-H?

250 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:26:47pm

re: #247 Shug

Texas Creationists are trying to write rites into Biology class and that ain't right

Amen, Brother

251 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:26:49pm

re: #227 favorednation

rites :)

Still wrong.

252 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:27:21pm

re: #245 stead63

I dinged you down for an attempt to move the goal post.

253 Shug  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:27:31pm

re: #251 Cato the Elder

Still wrong.


so two rites don't make a wrong?

or do they?

254 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:27:37pm

re: #238 favorednation

I learned my spellin' in tennassee

God help you.

255 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:27:47pm

I am really tired of deflection.

256 albusteve  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:28:01pm

re: #246 Occasional Reader

States have been itching to get their 'roids back for many years.

in Texas they say "ROID 'EM COWBOY"!

257 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:28:02pm

re: #253 Shug

so two rites don't make a wrong?

or do they?

Two rites make a - sacrament?

258 razorbacker  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:28:07pm

Hong Kong Christens an Ark of Biblical Proportions
The First Built as Big as Noah's, It Joins a Global Regatta of Replicas

This city's three billionaire Kwok brothers have just the answer for the rising waters threatening the global economy: the world's first life-size replica of Noah's ark, built to biblical specifications off the coast of this recession-struck Chinese financial center.

The message in its 450-foot-long hull, its rooftop luxury hotel and 67 pairs of fiberglass animals: "The financial tsunami will be over," says Spencer Lu, the Kwoks' project director at Noah's Ark, which is opening soon.

I'll bet they don't have a couple of unicorns on board, either.

259 BlueCanuck  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:28:13pm

re: #253 Shug

so two rites don't make a wrong?

or do they?

Depends on which rites they are practicing. :)

260 Shug  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:28:35pm

re: #259 BlueCanuck

Depends on which rites they are practicing. :)

right

261 Dar ul Harb  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:29:00pm

re: #237 albusteve

STATES ROIDS RULE!

STIX NIX HICK PIX

262 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:29:10pm

re: #249 VioletTiger

Perhaps a little Preparation S-H?

I knew someone would pile on.

263 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:29:13pm

re: #236 Mich-again

Evolution is not an explanation for the creation of life.

Not meant to be, actually.

264 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:29:23pm

re: #258 razorbacker

Hong Kong Christens an Ark of Biblical Proportions
The First Built as Big as Noah's, It Joins a Global Regatta of Replicas

I'll bet they don't have a couple of unicorns on board, either.

I am waiting for the Tower of Babel exhibit...That Nimrod is still my favorite biblical leader

265 Mich-again  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:29:29pm

re: #255 Sharmuta

Do you believe in abiogenesis?

266 stead63  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:29:36pm

re: #236 Mich-again

Evolution is not an explanation for the creation of life.

Not even my argument. Evolution is and has been a part of life all along. The idea that we cannot evolve from what we were 1000 years ago just in immune system advances and our ability to progressively show that we constantly improve brain function is irrational but that being said claiming to evolve from primates seems like a far reach even from the most staunch scientist.

267 favorednation  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:30:21pm

re: #248 BlueCanuck

can't take a joke; can you?

268 jaunte  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:30:38pm

re: #266 stead63

Yes, we're still primates.

269 albusteve  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:30:41pm

re: #261 Dar ul Harb

STIX NIX HICK PIX

is there a title award?....winna!

270 Salamantis  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:30:45pm

re: #218 stead63

You do have to understand that these people, just as any other right to assemble group, feel they deserve the same platform that the big bang believers have. The idea that spontaneous combustion yielding life, planets and universes has such an astronomically large(no pun intended) improbability of happening gives way for others to insert what they feel is correct. Do I agree, as a Christian, that this should be the "text book" explanation, no, but they both have one HUGE thing in common...Neither can be nailed down as either scientifically or rationally proven.

Umm...the background echo radiation empirical evidence for the Big Bang is checkable and re-checkable at will, and its red shift coefficient has allowed us to date the universe at 13.7 billion years old.

And not only is evolution an empirical fact, but its main mechanisms - random genetic mutation and nonrandom environmental selection - have been experimentally, empirically, evidentially supported beyond the merest hint of a flicker of a shadow of a statistically rational doubt.

271 stead63  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:31:03pm

re: #252 Sharmuta

Haha thanks. I'll except my penalty and hope to redeem myself.

272 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:31:34pm

re: #245 stead63

Don't get me wrong, I am not fighting for this to be passed in my state. [...]

How about fighting for it to be past?

273 AmeriDan  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:31:36pm

re: #238 favorednation

I learned my spellin' in tennassee

Me 2, so fuc off and dye.

274 albusteve  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:31:38pm

re: #268 jaunte

Yes, we're still primates.

I've evolved to war pig

275 Dar ul Harb  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:31:40pm

re: #262 Occasional Reader

If this continues, I fear that Charles will have to wipe the whole thread.

276 jaunte  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:31:59pm

re: #274 albusteve

Honco, here.

277 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:32:12pm

re: #218 stead63

You do have to understand that these people, just as any other right to assemble group, feel they deserve the same platform that the big bang believers have. The idea that spontaneous combustion yielding life, planets and universes has such an astronomically large(no pun intended) improbability of happening gives way for others to insert what they feel is correct. Do I agree, as a Christian, that this should be the "text book" explanation, no, but they both have one HUGE thing in common...Neither can be nailed down as either scientifically or rationally proven.

Whaaat? The Big Bang has tremendous explanatory power, from the microwave background radiation to the redshifting of galaxies to the proportion of hydrogen to helium in the universe. It makes other predictions as well which can be tested. By contrast, "God did it" doesn't help us understand anything.

BTW, thanks for making the rest of us Christians look ignorant by associating your folly with your faith.

278 Shug  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:32:13pm

re: #266 stead63

Not even my argument. Evolution is and has been a part of life all along. The idea that we cannot evolve from what we were 1000 years ago just in immune system advances and our ability to progressively show that we constantly improve brain function is irrational but that being said claiming to evolve from primates seems like a far reach even from the most staunch scientist.

Domain: Eukaryota
Kingdom: Animalia
Subkingdom: Eumetazoa
Phylum: Chordata
Subphylum: Vertebrata
Class: Mammalia
Subclass: Theria
Order: Primates
Superfamily: Hominoidea
Family: Hominidae
Subfamily: Homininae
Tribe: Hominini
Subtribe: Hominina
Genus: Homo
Species: H. sapiens
Subspecies: H. s. sapiens

279 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:32:29pm

re: #248 BlueCanuck

Fail, again. Spell check isn't your friend I see.

Spell check doesn't catch homonymic fail.

280 Occasional Reader  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:32:39pm

Good night.

281 lostlakehiker  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:33:02pm

re: #204 razorbacker

The Feds To Push For 'Truth' In Social-Media Marketing

I pray that this is instituted. Please let it be so.

'Cause I'm gonna sue the ass off the Democrat party just as soon as it is. They been lying about crappy products for years.


But that won't be the way the courts will see it. Someone on LGF will say that they like turkey at thanksgiving, and the ham industry will sue LGF and win.

The effect of such a law would be to outlaw any talk at all about anything, anywhere, anytime, by any conservative. There would be nothing you could say, political, personal, or respecting the merits of scientific or technical issues, that couldn't be argued somehow or other to be "false advertising".

282 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:33:04pm

re: #280 Occasional Reader

Good night.

Don't let the bed bugs bite

283 Racer X  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:33:26pm

Evolution is bad, m'kay.
- Mr. Mackey

284 jaunte  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:33:37pm

Didn't the Hominini Tribe discover pizza?

285 fizzlogic  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:33:41pm

re: #3 NukeAtomrod

The Republicans pander to the Creationists. The Democrats are hostile to anything Christian. It's a lose-lose situation.

Or maybe you're listening to conservative talking heads who pander to the religious right tell you Democrats are hostile to Christianity.

286 Mich-again  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:33:47pm

re: #263 Cato the Elder

Not meant to be, actually.

True, but based on what I have seen in these threads time and again that misunderstanding accounts for about 95% of the arguments.

Yosemite Sam du jour comes in here again and again guns a blazing because he knows for a fact that science does a crappy job explaining how life happened on its own and immediately they get painted as someone who thinks Noah rounded up two every species.

Old hat.

287 Gella  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:34:02pm

re: #283 Racer X

Evolution is bad, m'kay.
- Mr. Mackey

this quote reminds of movie "Water boy" for some reason, ohh great

288 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:34:08pm

re: #281 lostlakehiker

I think the government should stay out of that business....seeing as they are guilty as hell for the same offense.

289 Fearless Fred  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:34:12pm

re: #118 Alberta Oil Peon

yeah.

290 BlueCanuck  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:34:34pm

re: #279 Cato the Elder

Exactly, that's why spell check isn't your friend.

291 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:34:37pm

re: #274 albusteve

I've evolved to war pig

I learned recently that I am a Hominid with Bisexual Capacity.

I am trying to figure out how to tell my wife.

292 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:35:26pm

re: #265 Mich-again

Do you believe in abiogenesis?

Please elaborate.

293 albusteve  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:35:52pm

re: #291 karmic_inquisitor

I learned recently that I am a Hominid with Bisexual Capacity.

I am trying to figure out how to tell my wife.

maybe she's thinking the same thing...jus sayin

294 Mich-again  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:35:56pm

re: #292 Sharmuta

Please elaborate.

Look it up.

295 Gella  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:36:26pm

re: #291 karmic_inquisitor

I learned recently that I am a Hominid with Bisexual Capacity.

I am trying to figure out how to tell my wife.

that u have male friend? man date? hmmm
////

296 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:36:45pm

re: #293 albusteve

maybe she's thinking the same thing...jus sayin

Let her go first, dude. Offer your support, if you know what I mean.

297 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:36:49pm

re: #294 Mich-again

Look it up.

My understand is there are a number of hypotheses concerning abiogenesis, so I can't answer you unless I know which one you're asking me about.

298 NukeAtomrod  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:36:53pm

re: #285 trendsurfer

Or maybe you're listening to conservative talking heads who pander to the religious right tell you Democrats are hostile to Christianity.

See #166

299 albusteve  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:36:56pm

re: #294 Mich-again

Look it up.

I'm cool with it...hell of a concept

300 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:36:59pm

re: #293 albusteve

maybe she's thinking the same thing...jus sayin

Before I read that post at Zomblog, I was convinced I was a lesbian trapped in a man's body. Now I am really confused.

301 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:37:19pm

re: #284 jaunte

Didn't the Hominini Tribe discover pizza?

Grits.

302 Salamantis  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:37:33pm

re: #245 stead63

Don't get me wrong, I am not fighting for this to be passed in my state. And YES there are people that cannot form the idea of separation of Church and State no matter what medium you beat them with. Just as there is NO evidence that Socialism OR Communism EVER worked people still fight for it tooth and nail and the worst part is...they are elected officials. Cough*Cough*Obama*Cough*

Another shining, sterling exemplar of the 2500 year old tu quoque Greek logical fallacy.

Just because other people jump off their pet dogmatic irrationality cliffs doesn't mean that you should lemming up and do it, too.

303 albusteve  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:37:42pm

re: #296 Desert Dog

Let her go first, dude. Offer your support, if you know what I mean.

charge up the vid cam as OR would say

304 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:38:05pm

It's been tu quoque all damn day.

305 Unakite  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:38:25pm

re: #206 Desert Dog

Anyone here have a good grasp of Spanish? How do you say: "Mine your own business, assholes"

Uh, I think you want "mind," then "your own business, assholes."

306 albusteve  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:38:45pm

re: #300 karmic_inquisitor

Before I read that post at Zomblog, I was convinced I was a lesbian trapped in a man's body. Now I am really confused.

so are they....if that's any help

307 jaunte  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:39:10pm

re: #301 Cato the Elder

Grits.

I really did laugh out loud at that one.

308 Mich-again  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:39:19pm

re: #297 Sharmuta

My understand is there are a number of hypotheses concerning abiogenesis, so I can't answer you unless I know which one you're asking me about.

Pick one. All of them are weak. Thats the point.

309 stead63  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:39:59pm

re: #302 Salamantis

But just because you choose to believe in nothing doesn't make me wrong.

310 BlueCanuck  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:40:16pm

Well, my relief is here and it's time for me to go. See you all later lizards.

311 Shug  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:40:19pm

The economy is so bad, Madonna is considering adopting an American Child

-Leno

312 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:40:29pm

re: #305 Unakite

Uh, I think you want "mind," then "your own business, assholes."

spelling mistakes a plenty this evening!

313 AmeriDan  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:40:40pm

re: #310 BlueCanuck

Well, my relief is here and it's time for me to go. See you all later lizards.

Bye, Blue.

314 Neutral President  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:40:41pm

re: #245 stead63

Don't get me wrong, I am not fighting for this to be passed in my state. And YES there are people that cannot form the idea of separation of Church and State no matter what medium you beat them with. Just as there is NO evidence that Socialism OR Communism EVER worked people still fight for it tooth and nail and the worst part is...they are elected officials. Cough*Cough*Obama*Cough*

Non-Sequitur, your facts are uncoordinated...

315 Mich-again  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:41:02pm

re: #311 Shug

MC Hammer is now charging 5 bucks to touch this.

316 albusteve  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:41:14pm

re: #308 Mich-again

Pick one. All of them are weak. Thats the point.

I thought you were referring to oil...I'll buttoutski

317 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:41:25pm

re: #257 Cato the Elder

Two rites make a - sacrament?

You are mean. I like that about you :)

318 favorednation  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:41:49pm

If the theory of evolution was true, why would we call ourselves "lizards" instead of some form of energy or something. Just thing....

319 formercorpsman  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:42:02pm

re: #271 stead63

accept.

320 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:42:13pm

re: #315 Mich-again

MC Hammer is now charging 5 bucks to touch this.

I liked the Mich Again billboard avatar, but your new one is STELLAR!

321 Salamantis  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:42:26pm

re: #266 stead63

Not even my argument. Evolution is and has been a part of life all along. The idea that we cannot evolve from what we were 1000 years ago just in immune system advances and our ability to progressively show that we constantly improve brain function is irrational but that being said claiming to evolve from primates seems like a far reach even from the most staunch scientist.

Then you obviously haven't been keeping up.

Humans and great apes evolutionarily diverged from common hominid ancestors. Humans and chimpanzees share close to 99% of their genes, and evolutionarliy diverged around seven million years ago. The fact that this happened has been established beyond all rational statistical doubt by comparing the artifactual retroviral DNA sequences found in the genomes of humans and great apes. Read all about it:

[Link: www.newyorker.com...]

322 Unakite  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:42:51pm

re: #207 Spare O'Lake

US ship attacked today by pirates, attack repelled, pirates fail to board ship
--BBC

I'm sorry, it's late, but I just see a Monty Python skit where they are all launched into the side of the ship, bounce off, and fall into the water.

but that's just me.

323 Gella  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:42:58pm

re: #318 favorednation

If the theory of evolution was true, why would we call ourselves "lizards" instead of some form of energy or something. Just thing....

then we'd be called strings.....................

324 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:43:02pm

re: #321 Salamantis

Then you obviously haven't been keeping up.

Humans and great apes evolutionarily diverged from common hominid ancestors. Humans and chimpanzees share close to 99% of their genes, and evolutionarliy diverged around seven million years ago. The fact that this happened has been established beyond all rational statistical doubt by comparing the artifactual retroviral DNA sequences found in the genomes of humans and great apes. Read all about it:

[Link: www.newyorker.com...]

Does that make me a monkey's uncle?

325 The Shadow Do  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:43:15pm

re: #218 stead63

You do have to understand that these people, just as any other right to assemble group, feel they deserve the same platform that the big bang believers have. The idea that spontaneous combustion yielding life, planets and universes has such an astronomically large(no pun intended) improbability of happening gives way for others to insert what they feel is correct. Do I agree, as a Christian, that this should be the "text book" explanation, no, but they both have one HUGE thing in common...Neither can be nailed down as either scientifically or rationally proven.

What the hey? I do not recall Darwin expounding upon the big bang (aside from a certain unnamed Galapagos trollop that some have whispered of).

Are you that convinced that your DNA is somehow magically endowed with a unique sort of God dust unlike any other flora/fauna? Created in a flash? What does "in His image" mean to you exactly, that you are some sort of slice of perfection? Is there some as yet undiscovered God sprinkles in your genome that makes you unmistakably different from some crummy chimpanzee?

Suck it up. And Cheeta was pretty cool.

326 lostlakehiker  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:43:24pm

re: #218 stead63

You do have to understand that these people, just as any other right to assemble group, feel they deserve the same platform that the big bang believers have. The idea that spontaneous combustion yielding life, planets and universes has such an astronomically large(no pun intended) improbability of happening gives way for others to insert what they feel is correct. Do I agree, as a Christian, that this should be the "text book" explanation, no, but they both have one HUGE thing in common...Neither can be nailed down as either scientifically or rationally proven.


Science doesn't claim any of these things, because, as you say, they are not scientifically proven. What is as proven as anything can be by way of science, is that once life got started, it changed over time, evolving from simple forms to more varied and complex.

In science class, this should be the textbook scientific explanation.

327 Shug  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:43:32pm

re: #318 favorednation


worst. troll. ever.

328 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:44:10pm

re: #266 stead63

Not even my argument. Evolution is and has been a part of life all along. The idea that we cannot evolve from what we were 1000 years ago just in immune system advances and our ability to progressively show that we constantly improve brain function is irrational but that being said claiming to evolve from primates seems like a far reach even from the most staunch scientist.

You are ignorant is all. Probably not your fault, until now. However from today onwards, it will be your fault, now that you've figured out internet access.

329 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:44:22pm

re: #309 stead63

But just because you choose to believe in nothing doesn't make me wrong.

Right. So Salamantis is suddenly a nihilist (where the hell did that come from), and that means you've got a line to the truth?

Your logic is so twisted you could base a proof of superstring theory on it.

330 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:44:45pm

re: #286 Mich-again

True, but based on what I have seen in these threads time and again that misunderstanding accounts for about 95% of the arguments.

Yosemite Sam du jour comes in here again and again guns a blazing because he knows for a fact that science does a crappy job explaining how life happened on its own and immediately they get painted as someone who thinks Noah rounded up two every species.

Old hat.

Actually what you tend to see is Yosemite Sam coming in here talking about the Big Bang and/or abiogenesis when the thread was more narrowly focused on Behe and Johnson, i.e. opponents of biological evolution.

But this particular gunslinger's truer message is that he is wearing a bulletproof plate underneath his shirt, in the shape of a cross. For this guy it's not about trying to convince us that his stance is reasonable. It's about going out in a glorious blaze of downdings. See how he faced down the heathens of Reptile Village!

331 favorednation  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:44:48pm

re: #323 Gella

Then I'll call myself superstring :)

332 Mich-again  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:45:04pm

re: #326 lostlakehiker

What is as proven as anything can be by way of science, is that once life got started, it changed over time, evolving from simple forms to more varied and complex.

I agree. Start with what we know for a fact.

333 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:45:10pm

re: #312 Desert Dog

spelling mistakes a plenty this evening!

Aplenty. Yes.

334 Gella  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:45:37pm

re: #331 favorednation

Then I'll call myself superstring :)

i was talking about string theory :)))))
but superstring favorednation sounds awesome :) ))

335 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:45:45pm

re: #318 favorednation

If the theory of evolution was true, why would we call ourselves "lizards" instead of some form of energy or something. Just thing....

SILENCE! You do not understand the machinations of your The Overlords of Zionist Occupied Remulak!

Bwah hahhahah hahahah

We are the evolved form compared to your puny species!

/////

336 Gella  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:46:13pm

re: #335 LudwigVanQuixote

SILENCE! You do not understand the machinations of your The Overlords of Zionist Occupied Remulak!

Bwah hahhahah hahahah

We are the evolved form compared to your puny species!

/////

did somebody call for Q? :)

337 favorednation  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:46:28pm

re: #334 Gella

lol I knew what you were getting at.

338 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:46:52pm

re: #331 favorednation

Then I'll call myself superstring :)

So do you operate under the Polyakov Action?

Sorry for the String Theory in joke....

339 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:47:09pm

Thomas Sowell is the man:

Got Change for a Billion Dollar Bill?

340 Gella  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:47:17pm

re: #337 favorednation

lol I knew what you were getting at.

why nobody is fighting about string theory? whats wrong with ppl?
/// no seriously

341 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:47:45pm

re: #321 Salamantis

[...] Read all about it:

[Link: www.newyorker.com...]

C'mon, Sal. The New Yorker is published in - New York! How could he possibly trust them?

342 itellu3times  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:48:19pm

re: #218 stead63

You do have to understand that these people, just as any other right to assemble group, feel they deserve the same platform that the big bang believers have.

People in hell want ice water.

343 Salamantis  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:48:26pm

re: #309 stead63

But just because you choose to believe in nothing doesn't make me wrong.

Actually, because I accept the logical conclusions deriveable from collations of repeated-observation-under-controlled-conditions-produced empirical evidence and you reject them because of an emotional attachment to the empirical valididy of a literal reading of an ancient scripture, yes, it DOES mean that I am right and you are wrong.

344 Racer X  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:48:26pm
345 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:48:30pm

re: #336 Gella

did somebody call for Q? :)

Silence.... Q is merely a way of keeping the more addled of your masses ready to accept us. Star Trek was the greatest creation of Agent Roddenberry.

Trekkies taste better too... And they are Kosher ....

346 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:48:40pm

re: #309 stead63

But just because you choose to believe in nothing doesn't make me wrong.

Typical Creationist Troll tactic: "You don't agree with me, therefore you believe in nothing." Pathetic.

347 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:48:55pm

re: #308 Mich-again

Pick one. All of them are weak. Thats the point.

You know- I have a lot of respect for you, but when it comes to this issue, if you're going to pick a fight for no real good reason, I'm going to have to scroll past you. That was uncalled for. Science doesn't claim to have all the answers, and perhaps abiogenesis will remain a collection of hypotheses, but why you're coming after me on this, I have no idea.

348 Unakite  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:49:28pm

re: #277 Zimriel

Whaaat? The Big Bang has tremendous explanatory power, from the microwave background radiation to the redshifting of galaxies to the proportion of hydrogen to helium in the universe. It makes other predictions as well which can be tested. By contrast, "God did it" doesn't help us understand anything.

BTW, thanks for making the rest of us Christians look ignorant by associating your folly with your faith.

Oiky Moiky, do I have to go back and...Fuuuu...

349 Gella  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:49:52pm

re: #345 LudwigVanQuixote

Silence.... Q is merely a way of keeping the more addled of your masses ready to accept us. Star Trek was the greatest creation of Agent Roddenberry.

Trekkies taste better too... And they are Kosher ....

yes we are Kosher we have da Shat, hello :))
all hail chief Roddenberry :)
can't wait till mid may :)

350 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:50:04pm

re: #335 LudwigVanQuixote

SILENCE! You do not understand the machinations of your The Overlords of Zionist Occupied Remulak!

Bwah hahhahah hahahah

We are the evolved form compared to your puny species!

/////

As a representative of two ancient species that have gone beyond the rim, but some of us stayed behind to help you develop, I have to say that sometimes, I wonder why we stayed; it seems you'll never advance.
/Kosh of the Vorlons, and his Shadow equivalent

351 VioletTiger  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:50:22pm

re: #344 Racer X

Evolution for reals.


Oh noes....we evolved to Michael Moore?/

352 Macker  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:51:00pm

re: #345 LudwigVanQuixote

I'm not sorry to say this as an original Trek fan: this new movie is blasphemy.

353 Mich-again  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:51:16pm

re: #330 Zimriel

It's about going out in a glorious blaze of downdings.

I agree for the most part with your post, but I think you might be overestimating the power of the ding. I say never let the threat of a down ding stop you from posting something you feel strongly about.

354 Macker  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:51:30pm

re: #350 Kosh's Shadow

But I thought we are all Kosh....

355 Gella  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:51:35pm

re: #350 Kosh's Shadow

As a representative of two ancient species that have gone beyond the rim, but some of us stayed behind to help you develop, I have to say that sometimes, I wonder why we stayed; it seems you'll never advance.
/Kosh of the Vorlons, and his Shadow equivalent

so when Passover is over? Thursday night? i am starving :)))

356 Unakite  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:51:53pm

re: #218 stead63

You do have to understand that these people, just as any other right to assemble group, feel they deserve the same platform that the big bang believers have. The idea that spontaneous combustion yielding life, planets and universes has such an astronomically large(no pun intended) improbability of happening gives way for others to insert what they feel is correct. Do I agree, as a Christian, that this should be the "text book" explanation, no, but they both have one HUGE thing in common...Neither can be nailed down as either scientifically or rationally proven.

Ok, not caught up, but, spontaneous combustion WTFATTA?

357 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:52:32pm

re: #238 favorednation

I learned my spellin' in tennassee

Fuck you.

358 stead63  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:52:34pm

re: #353 Mich-again

Or the social scolding.

359 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:52:35pm

re: #352 Macker

Have you seen it already? I was hoping they didn't ruin it

360 AmeriDan  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:53:10pm

re: #352 Macker

I'm not sorry to say this as an original Trek fan: this new movie is blasphemy.

I got to be on set during filming of some scenes for Star Trek 4.

361 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:53:22pm

re: #340 Gella

why nobody is fighting about string theory? whats wrong with ppl?
/// no seriously

As untestable hypotheses go, nobody here is investing their immortal soul in the hypothesis that there are 10 or 11 twisted and as-yet unbreached dimensions outside space and time.

At least, I sincerely hope not.

362 Macker  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:53:23pm

re: #359 Desert Dog

Not Just No but HELL NO, and I have NO plans on seeing it. NONE.

363 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:53:37pm

re: #238 favorednation

I learned my spellin' in tennassee

That's "Tennessee".

Asshole.

364 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:53:42pm

re: #331 favorednation

Then I'll call myself superstring :)

I suspect that's a thong to you.

365 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:54:22pm

re: #350 Kosh's Shadow

As a representative of two ancient species that have gone beyond the rim, but some of us stayed behind to help you develop, I have to say that sometimes, I wonder why we stayed; it seems you'll never advance.
/Kosh of the Vorlons, and his Shadow equivalent

"Goodbye, and thanks for all the fish!"

Name that quote! (No googling.)

366 Salem  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:54:26pm

Well, I'm going to go see the new Star Trek at the theater and I expect to enjoy it very much. Harumph!

367 Gus  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:54:46pm

In other news. Don McLeroy has begun building a Noah's Ark of his own and will place all Texas creationists on the vessel and flee the now Evolutionist Texas homeland to another land beyond the flat sea.

368 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:54:48pm

re: #362 Macker

Not Just No but HELL NO, and I have NO plans on seeing it. NONE.

I will brave the theater for you and send back a report. Mrs. Desert Dog has already informed me that I will be attending a screening of this movie once it comes out. I have my orders.

369 Unakite  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:54:50pm

re: #218 stead63

You do have to understand that these people, just as any other right to assemble group, feel they deserve the same platform that the big bang believers have. The idea that spontaneous combustion yielding life, planets and universes has such an astronomically large(no pun intended) improbability of happening gives way for others to insert what they feel is correct. Do I agree, as a Christian, that this should be the "text book" explanation, no, but they both have one HUGE thing in common...Neither can be nailed down as either scientifically or rationally proven.

An astronomically large.. improbability is an oxymoron at best.

370 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:55:04pm

re: #355 Gella

so when Passover is over? Thursday night? i am starving :)))

Sunset Thursday, unless you're in Israel or Reform, in which case, Wednesday.

371 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:55:08pm
372 Macker  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:55:17pm

re: #363 MandyManners

No slam to all Volunteers, but I thought Tennessee was once the ass end of North Carolina....

373 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:55:30pm

re: #365 Cato the Elder

"Goodbye, and thanks for all the fish!"

Name that quote! (No googling.)

Some hitchhiker in the Blue Ridge mountains.

374 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:55:35pm

re: #327 Shug
Hey now, let's not be too hasty there my friend - we've had a LOT of really BAD trolls, though I'll grant you that this one is off to a flying start!

375 Gella  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:55:54pm

re: #370 Kosh's Shadow

Sunset Thursday, unless you're in Israel or Reform, in which case, Wednesday.

at this point i am not sure, but i try to follow, so TH night that is :)
spinach pizza night :) i am tired of living on yogurt and cheese heh

376 Unakite  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:55:57pm

re: #312 Desert Dog

spelling mistakes a plenty this evening!

Hey, I'm still catching up (again). Story of my life.

377 favorednation  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:56:01pm

re: #338 LudwigVanQuixote

Nope. I am more than 2 dimensional.

378 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:56:33pm

re: #355 Gella

so when Passover is over? Thursday night? i am starving :)))

Not to rub it in, but when I broke my Lenten fast on Easter Sunday all that meat tasted SO GOOD....!

And then I felt queasy all Monday lol

379 Gella  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:56:48pm

re: #361 Zimriel

As untestable hypotheses go, nobody here is investing their immortal soul in the hypothesis that there are 10 or 11 twisted and as-yet unbreached dimensions outside space and time.

At least, I sincerely hope not.

problem is not a lot of ppl know about string theory

380 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:56:51pm

re: #365 Cato the Elder

"Goodbye, and thanks for all the fish!"

Name that quote! (No googling.)

That's what the porpoises said when they left, knowing the Vogons were about to destroy Earth.

Now, we could try playing HHGTTG Jeopardy, in which I give the answer and you give the question:
The answer: 42

381 Macker  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:57:08pm

re: #378 Zimriel

Serves you right Zimriel....

382 Shug  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:57:11pm

re: #374 realwest

Hey now, let's not be too hasty there my friend - we've had a LOT of really BAD trolls, though I'll grant you that this one is off to a flying start!

I don't mean bad as in evil or malicious.
I mean bad in terms of low quality.

If it was the Gong show, I'd hit the gong

383 favorednation  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:57:16pm

re: #363 MandyManners

I know...
bitch :) I lived there a few years. Not with a bitch; however. :)

384 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:57:24pm

re: #371 Eagle

Charles, you might want to see. Looks like Pamela from AS.

You expect someone with a website named Atlas Shrugged would embrace reason. This video something I expect to come from Mort Liddy, not John Galt.

As I've said before, methinks Pamela doth protest too much.

Old news, honco.

And I expect Charles will not take kindly to having that crap on the site.

385 Gella  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:57:31pm

re: #378 Zimriel

Not to rub it in, but when I broke my Lenten fast on Easter Sunday all that meat tasted SO GOOD....!

And then I felt queasy all Monday lol

damn it, but seriously damn it :)
on the other hand its a good diet, i lost few pounds :)

386 jaunte  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:58:08pm

Stinky unstunk it.

387 Salamantis  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:58:14pm

re: #382 Shug

I don't mean bad as in evil or malicious.
I mean bad in terms of low quality.

If it was the Gong show, I'd hit the gong

This troll's of such poor quality it makes me wanna hit the bong!

388 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:58:25pm

re: #375 Gella

at this point i am not sure, but i try to follow, so TH night that is :)
spinach pizza night :) i am tired of living on yogurt and cheese heh

And other lizards have been torturing us with discussions of whether NY or Chicago pizza is better.

389 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:58:36pm

re: #383 favorednation

Go piss up a rope.

390 Racer X  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:58:59pm

The universe is really big. I mean humungously big. Picture the universe and then multiply it times a trillion. now double that. Now multiply that be a billion. Yes. Its bigger than that.re: #365 Cato the Elder

Douglas Adams.

391 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:59:13pm

re: #389 Sharmuta

Go piss up a rope.

Copyright violation!

392 Racer X  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:59:23pm

PIFW

393 Gella  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 8:59:33pm

re: #388 Kosh's Shadow

And other lizards have been torturing us with discussions of whether NY or Chicago pizza is better.


haaaa Chicago, no other way or how :)

394 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:00:05pm

re: #382 Shug Ah well then, my apologies there Shug!

395 Shug  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:00:34pm

re: #388 Kosh's Shadow

And other lizards have been torturing us with discussions of whether NY or Chicago pizza is better.


I agree.

NY pizza is so much better it's not even worth discussing

396 Macker  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:00:47pm

re: #391 Naso Tang

Copyright violation!

You got that right:

397 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:00:50pm

re: #390 Racer X

The universe is really big. I mean humungously big. Picture the universe and then multiply it times a trillion. now double that. Now multiply that be a billion. Yes. Its bigger than that.

Douglas Adams.

You think it is a long way down the street to the chemist. That is nothing compared to space.

398 Mich-again  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:01:06pm

re: #347 Sharmuta

I didn't pick any fight with you. To be honest I don't care enough to pick a fight. My point is evolution is scientific fact and to dispute that is crazy. But subscribing to abiogenesis is quite a bit different than subscribing to evolution. As for which theory I said pick one because they are all on equal footing.

399 Gus  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:01:14pm

re: #388 Kosh's Shadow

And other lizards have been torturing us with discussions of whether NY or Chicago pizza is better.

New York! Brooklyn to be precise. ;)

400 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:01:32pm

re: #391 Naso Tang

No one calls Mandy a bitch around me except Mandy.

401 NukeAtomrod  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:01:36pm

re: #352 Macker

I'm not sorry to say this as an original Trek fan: this new movie is blasphemy.

Probably.

It's going to suck but, I'm going to go see it anyway. - Traditional Battle Cry of the Sci-Fi fan.

402 Unakite  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:01:37pm

re: #291 karmic_inquisitor

I learned recently that I am a Hominid with Bisexual Capacity.

I am trying to figure out how to tell my wife.

Just tell her your are a lesbian in man's body. :b)

403 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:02:04pm

re: #380 Kosh's Shadow

That's what the porpoises said when they left, knowing the Vogons were about to destroy Earth.

Now, we could try playing HHGTTG Jeopardy, in which I give the answer and you give the question:
The answer: 42

Meaning of life, the universe, and everything else, natch!

404 jaunte  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:02:06pm

re: #390 Racer X

I like to imagine the earth's surface area (510,072,000 km²) in square centimeters, times the 10,000 visible galaxies in the Hubble Deep Field.
That's a lot of suns.

405 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:02:29pm

re: #387 Salamantis Hold tight there Sal - it may want to make you to hit the bong, but don't do it! Damn things crack easy enough on their own!

406 Gella  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:03:01pm

re: #401 NukeAtomrod

Probably.

It's going to suck but, I'm going to go see it anyway. - Traditional Battle Cry of the Sci-Fi fan.

ya it will suck, if u seen any of JJ Abrams movies, but ill see to, probably on the 1st night
at this moment i just want to see leonard Nimoy and Zach Quinto

407 Salamantis  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:03:14pm

I keep picturing Charles as a horse wearing a mask, and Stinky as an outta tune acoustic gee-tarr...and when the stick comes down, this voice in the back of my head says

El KABONGGGG!

408 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:06:18pm

re: #379 Gella

problem is not a lot of ppl know about string theory

I don't think even scientists know about it. It was cooked up by mathematicians as a wouldn't-it-be-cool exercise. The computer programmer in me says that if you need 10 (or 11) dimensions to explain this 4 dimensional universe, then the theory has got too complicated. Has anyone even tried to verify this in a laboratory setting?

I suppose the electroweak hypothesis was complicated too; but at least it made a testable prediction, which was successfully tested, in what might have been the most Awesome test evar. Yay particle colliders! :^)

409 Mich-again  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:06:22pm

re: #407 Salamantis

and Stinky as an outta tune acoustic gee-tarr...

Ughh. Nothing is worse than the church band strumming Kumbaya with all the acoustic guitars hopelessly out of tune because the fat old men and women who play guitar in the church band think they can all tune by ear.

410 Eagle  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:06:25pm

re: #384 Cato the Elder

Whoops.

First I've seen it. I guess I missed a thread in the last 24 hours. (Her video was just posted yesterday.)

Sorry Charles, didn't mean to drive up her traffic or nutin.

411 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:06:41pm

re: #405 realwest

Hold tight there Sal - it may want to make you to hit the bong, but don't do it! Damn things crack easy enough on their own!

Pot smoking and creationism- this thread could get ugly.

412 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:06:51pm

re: #400 Sharmuta

No one calls Mandy a bitch around me except Mandy.

Yeah, but she says it better than you... :)

413 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:07:28pm

re: #383 favorednation

I know...
bitch :) I lived there a few years. Not with a bitch; however. :)

So, how is your mother?

414 Racer X  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:07:29pm

OK. So the universe is a trillion times larger than I can imagine it to be. Now picture the universe as constantly expanding (which it is). It had to have started off somehow - Big Bang perhaps.

Now a trillion years from now what if the universe stops expanding and starts contracting? Then a trillion million years from now collapses into the opposite of a big bang - a Big Suck - due to the sheer volume of dark matter and black holes crashing in on each other.

Then immediately a Big Bang!

And we start all over again.

415 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:07:46pm

re: #412 Naso Tang

Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery.

416 Gella  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:08:08pm

re: #408 Zimriel

I don't think even scientists know about it. It was cooked up by mathematicians as a wouldn't-it-be-cool exercise. The computer programmer in me says that if you need 10 (or 11) dimensions to explain this 4 dimensional universe, then the theory has got too complicated. Has anyone even tried to verify this in a laboratory setting?

I suppose the electroweak hypothesis was complicated too; but at least it made a testable prediction, which was successfully tested, in what might have been the most Awesome test evar. Yay particle colliders! :^)

i can only imagine how hard will be it to verify in lab setting and how much manna will it cost, i highly doubt somebody will even find a financing for that

417 favorednation  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:08:17pm

re: #413 MandyManners

Let me guess your age: 12?

418 Racer X  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:08:52pm

re: #407 Salamantis

I keep picturing Charles as a horse wearing a mask, and Stinky as an outta tune acoustic gee-tarr...and when the stick comes down, this voice in the back of my head says

El KABONGGGG!

Hoooooold on thar, Bobba-manits.

419 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:09:00pm

Have we heard from Karradine today? I'm a little worries about what's going on in Thailand.

420 Salamantis  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:09:09pm

re: #414 Racer X

OK. So the universe is a trillion times larger than I can imagine it to be. Now picture the universe as constantly expanding (which it is). It had to have started off somehow - Big Bang perhaps.

Now a trillion years from now what if the universe stops expanding and starts contracting? Then a trillion million years from now collapses into the opposite of a big bang - a Big Suck - due to the sheer volume of dark matter and black holes crashing in on each other.

Then immediately a Big Bang!

And we start all over again.

I believe that the technical term is Big Crunch...;~)

421 Gus  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:09:35pm

re: #419 Killgore Trout

Have we heard from Karradine today? I'm a little worries about what's going on in Thailand.

I read something about the protests having ended.

422 favorednation  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:09:48pm

re: #420 Salamantis

gnabgib :)

423 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:09:52pm

re: #417 favorednation

Let me guess your age: 12?

What's your problem?

424 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:10:07pm
425 Racer X  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:10:19pm

re: #420 Salamantis

I believe that the technical term is Big Crunch...;~)

Better term, yes.

426 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:10:38pm

re: #423 Zimriel

He needs attention and negative attention will do.

427 AmeriDan  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:10:40pm

re: #417 favorednation

Let me guess your age: 12?

Let me guess your IQ: 12?

428 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:10:47pm

re: #414 Racer X

OK. So the universe is a trillion times larger than I can imagine it to be. Now picture the universe as constantly expanding (which it is). It had to have started off somehow - Big Bang perhaps.

Now a trillion years from now what if the universe stops expanding and starts contracting? Then a trillion million years from now collapses into the opposite of a big bang - a Big Suck - due to the sheer volume of dark matter and black holes crashing in on each other.

Then immediately a Big Bang!

And we start all over again.

It looks like the universe will keep expanding, and, if dark energy is really there, will shred in the Big Rip.

429 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:11:05pm

re: #427 AmeriDan

Let me guess your IQ: 12?

167.

430 Salamantis  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:11:09pm

re: #420 Salamantis

I believe that the technical term is Big Crunch...;~)

And if there is such a thing, the beginning-to-end periodicity of each universal cycle would have to be at least forty billion years.

431 Salamantis  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:12:00pm

re: #418 Racer X

Hoooooold on thar, Bobba-manits.

AHHHH'LL do tha THINNINNNN' around here!

432 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:12:33pm

Patriotism from the past: Donald Duck......


Tea Party!
433 AmeriDan  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:12:36pm

re: #429 Sharmuta

167.

Right. I forgot that talking point from the Troll handbook.

434 Gella  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:12:41pm

re: #428 Kosh's Shadow

It looks like the universe will keep expanding, and, if dark energy is really there, will shred in the Big Rip.

now think about theory about multiple dimensions, after the big rip we will expand into another dimension, unless another dimension is expanding too, which is probable, therefore comes big kaboom, oyyy vayyy :(

435 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:12:45pm

re: #429 Sharmuta

167.

had that once, when I was 12. :D

436 Yashmak  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:12:55pm

re: #302 Salamantis

Another shining, sterling exemplar of the 2500 year old tu quoque Greek logical fallacy.

Just because other people jump off their pet dogmatic irrationality cliffs doesn't mean that you should lemming up and do it, too.

f'ing 'jumping off pet dogmatic irrationality cliffs'! I gotta nominate that for rotating header thingy.

One thing I always wonder about these folks like stead63, is why are they so often so quick to dismiss the notion that we're descended from primates? What's wrong with primates anyway? I've never really felt lessened by the thought that they're my ancestors. I kinda like the notion that I'm the end product of a long line of design revisions. . .and that each of our lives bears the possibility of coming up with another improving revision, moving us towards perfection. I'm an engineer though, so I guess that follows. Heck, for all I know (agnostic here), Adam and Eve might be a Biblical metaphor for the evolutionary moment in which primate became man and woman. They say 'the lord works in mysterious ways', after all.

437 Unakite  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:13:04pm

re: #353 Mich-again

I agree for the most part with your post, but I think you might be overestimating the power of the ding. I say never let the threat of a down ding stop you from posting something you feel strongly about.

Nore: #414 Racer X

OK. So the universe is a trillion times larger than I can imagine it to be. Now picture the universe as constantly expanding (which it is). It had to have started off somehow - Big Bang perhaps.

Now a trillion years from now what if the universe stops expanding and starts contracting? Then a trillion million years from now collapses into the opposite of a big bang - a Big Suck - due to the sheer volume of dark matter and black holes crashing in on each other.

Then immediately a Big Bang!

And we start all over again.

Your first hypotehsis is non verifiable, and irrelevant to the rest of your thesis.

438 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:13:08pm

re: #405 realwest

Hi Realwest, how are you doing? You were pretty upset earlier. I hope all is well now?

439 jaunte  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:13:30pm

Is this the Karridine that posts here?
[Link: m.twitter.com...]

440 NukeAtomrod  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:14:04pm

re: #388 Kosh's Shadow

And other lizards have been torturing us with discussions of whether NY or Chicago pizza is better.

In Pittsburgh we put french fries on salad.

441 Dustyvet  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:14:13pm

re: #417 favorednation

Let me guess your age: 12?

I was going to guess your IQ, but why bother...?

/S

442 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:14:55pm

re: #439 jaunte

That looks like him.

443 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:15:03pm

OK- hand is bothering me again. Have fun, gang.

444 LC LaWedgie  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:15:05pm

I what esteemed college is Dr. McLeroy a bible literalist? - I've always assumed that literal means "interpretation or translation of the explicit and primary sense of words in the Bible" - and, sorry folks, young earth creationism ain't literal.

445 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:15:11pm

In every thread where I've tried to be reasonable about Barack Obama, the nuts come in after everyone else has left and they have a field day, posting comments bashing me and LGF in general, ranting away, and generally planting a ton of crap.

I mean every thread. And a majority of the people who do this are sleepers, registered for years with only a few comments, who suddenly pop up flinging insults and spewing extremist rhetoric.

I'm going to just start closing comments on threads where this happens.

446 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:15:18pm

re: #390 Racer X

The universe is really big. I mean humungously big. Picture the universe and then multiply it times a trillion. now double that. Now multiply that be a billion. Yes. Its bigger than that.

Douglas Adams.

And yet the interesting thing is, one good fractal zoom on a Mandelbrot set and you end up with something bigger than the universe:

From another zoom: "You world need a monitor 2^316 times the size of a normal one to view the whole of the first frame by the time you get to the last frame. That's approx. 2^176 times the size of the known universe."

The beauty of it all. Infinity in both directions.

447 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:15:22pm

re: #436 Yashmak

You might as well ask why they will usually say that if you don't believe what they believe, you must believe in nothing.

I think it's a cultural thing. Certain issues are taboo for thinking.

448 jaunte  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:15:28pm

re: #443 Sharmuta

Goodnight; feel better.

449 Racer X  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:16:40pm

re: #437 Unakite

Your first hypotehsis is non verifiable, and irrelevant to the rest of your thesis.

It makes perfect sense to me.

More so than the Big Rip.

450 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:16:44pm

re: #448 jaunte

Thanks. I'm glad you liked the Sara Bareilles, BTW. Be glad I haven't started in on Jack Johnson. ;)

451 Neutral President  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:17:21pm

re: #445 Charles

"We don take kindly tah reasonabul folks roun heah!"

452 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:17:39pm

re: #410 Eagle

Whoops.

First I've seen it. I guess I missed a thread in the last 24 hours. (Her video was just posted yesterday.)

Sorry Charles, didn't mean to drive up her traffic or nutin.

Spencer the Mad immediately posted it too. And maliciously outed my "real identity" as a bonus.

453 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:17:48pm

re: #445 Charles

But...but...Hier CHarles, there are spies!
/

454 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:18:23pm

Hello Night Lizards! It wasn't wet and cold today in Near Iowa.

How are you-all this evening? Oh, and what are we talking about?

455 favorednation  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:19:25pm

re: #445 Charles

What thread are you talking about?

456 Yashmak  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:19:40pm

re: #447 Naso Tang

You might as well ask why they will usually say that if you don't believe what they believe, you must believe in nothing.

I think it's a cultural thing. Certain issues are taboo for thinking.

I'm genuinely curious, though. It's one of the central mysteries about this argument for me.

I mean, is it the poo flinging thing? I mean, what's more disgusting about that, than beheading a person for insulting a religion, or any of countless other examples of people who behave worse than the most savage animal.

457 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:19:50pm

re: #414 Racer X

OK. So the universe is a trillion times larger than I can imagine it to be. Now picture the universe as constantly expanding (which it is). It had to have started off somehow - Big Bang perhaps.

Yes, that observation was what kicked off the Big Bang (and Steady State) theories. Further observation has nailed down a more exact age of the universe.

Now a trillion years from now what if the universe stops expanding and starts contracting? Then a trillion million years from now collapses into the opposite of a big bang - a Big Suck - due to the sheer volume of dark matter and black holes crashing in on each other.

Then immediately a Big Bang!

And we start all over again.

You're talking about a spherical-curvature manifold, in which time and space is bounded.

But I think current trends in astrophysics (which I haven't kept up with, extrasolar planets are more my thing) point toward a "flat" universe whereby the stars will keep expanding, but more and more slowly, into eternity as the stars all explode and/or die out.

458 Racer X  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:20:21pm

re: #446 Cato the Elder

And yet the interesting thing is, one good fractal zoom on a Mandelbrot set and you end up with something bigger than the universe:


[Video]

From another zoom: "You world need a monitor 2^316 times the size of a normal one to view the whole of the first frame by the time you get to the last frame. That's approx. 2^176 times the size of the known universe."

The beauty of it all. Infinity in both directions.

Ooh, that is trippy.

459 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:20:28pm

re: #455 favorednation

Like you really care.

460 jaunte  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:21:11pm

Those threads... over there....

461 Racer X  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:21:31pm

re: #453 Killgore Trout

But...but...Hier CHarles, there are spies!
/

Conspiracy!

462 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:21:34pm

re: #433 AmeriDan

Right. I forgot that talking point from the Troll handbook.

Please explain? Me no get.

463 Yashmak  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:21:49pm

re: #460 jaunte

Those threads... over there....

Ah yes, I see them.

464 kywrite  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:21:53pm

re: #445 Charles

Now I'm REALLY confused. Did I transgress somehow?

465 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:22:02pm

re: #446 Cato the Elder

Back in the days, when I used to write programs for late night amusement, my first Mandelbrot program, displaying all the pixels on the screen, took over 24 hours per iteration to process.

Those were fun times, when one was probably the first to ever view some of what was shown here.

466 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:22:10pm

re: #457 Zimriel

You're talking about a spherical-curvature manifold, in which time and space is bounded.

But I think current trends in astrophysics (which I haven't kept up with, extrasolar planets are more my thing) point toward a "flat" universe whereby the stars will keep expanding, but more and more slowly, into eternity as the stars all explode and/or die out.

See my earlier post on the Big Rip. The discovery of "dark energy" points towards an accelerating expansion until everything comes apart.
But really, we don't know yet.

467 Alberta Oil Peon  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:22:12pm

re: #430 Salamantis

And if there is such a thing, the beginning-to-end periodicity of each universal cycle would have to be at least forty billion years.

I don't plan on staying up that late.

468 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:22:12pm

re: #438 Floral Giraffe
Hi Floral Giraffe - well I was mostly upset earlier because I've got a big deal test at the Oncologist's tomorrow and, frankly I'm scared and when I get scared I usually get, ah, aggressive!
But I'm ok nnnnoooooowooow!
:)

469 jaunte  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:22:27pm

re: #462 Cato the Elder

It's about hominy IQ the poster has.

470 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:23:18pm

re: #446 Cato the Elder

And yet the interesting thing is, one good fractal zoom on a Mandelbrot set and you end up with something bigger than the universe:

From another zoom: "You world need a monitor 2^316 times the size of a normal one to view the whole of the first frame by the time you get to the last frame. That's approx. 2^176 times the size of the known universe."

The beauty of it all. Infinity in both directions.

Remember the bad old days, with shit computers, that took three frickin' hours to deliver up a grainy 256-colour approximation of a Mandelbrot?

Young kids today, they don't know how good they got it

471 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:23:24pm

re: #445 Charles

In every thread where I've tried to be reasonable about Barack Obama, the nuts come in after everyone else has left and they have a field day, posting comments bashing me and LGF in general, ranting away, and generally planting a ton of crap.

I mean every thread. And a majority of the people who do this are sleepers, registered for years with only a few comments, who suddenly pop up flinging insults and spewing extremist rhetoric.

I'm going to just start closing comments on threads where this happens.

that sounds more than reasonable.

Think people get paid to do this or are they just WHACKOS?

472 AmeriDan  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:23:34pm

re: #462 Cato the Elder

Please explain? Me no get.

Some idiot troll once claimed it's IQ was 167.

473 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:24:28pm

re: #445 Charles
GREAT IDEA Charles! BTW, about a week or two ago you were considering blocking registered users who ding down folks but don't make ANY comments of their own over a two month period. Thought that was a great idea too - have you given it more thought?

474 Unakite  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:24:29pm

re: #445 Charles

In every thread where I've tried to be reasonable about Barack Obama, the nuts come in after everyone else has left and they have a field day, posting comments bashing me and LGF in general, ranting away, and generally planting a ton of crap.

I mean every thread. And a majority of the people who do this are sleepers, registered for years with only a few comments, who suddenly pop up flinging insults and spewing extremist rhetoric.

I'm going to just start closing comments on threads where this happens.

Maybe strong negative Karma is a good thing.
//

475 Macker  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:24:30pm

re: #472 AmeriDan

Last time I checked my IQ it was 143....

476 favorednation  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:24:30pm

re: #472 AmeriDan

yep

477 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:24:36pm

re: #443 Sharmuta

OK- hand is bothering me again. Have fun, gang.

Ever tried an ergonomic keyboard? Helped me big time.

478 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:24:45pm

re: #468 realwest

Hi Floral Giraffe - well I was mostly upset earlier because I've got a big deal test at the Oncologist's tomorrow and, frankly I'm scared and when I get scared I usually get, ah, aggressive!
But I'm ok nnnnoooooowooow!
:)

I wish you the best of luck! I'll pray for you

479 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:25:17pm

re: #464 kywrite

Now I'm REALLY confused. Did I transgress somehow?

Do you often get this sudden feeling of guilt?

480 Racer X  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:25:26pm

re: #457 Zimriel

Yes, exactly!

Time and space are bound together by dark matter or whatever, and all matter at some point in the future come back together.

481 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:25:32pm

re: #471 ggt Hey ggt! How are ya tonight? And who the hell would PAY someone to do that?

482 Salamantis  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:26:25pm

re: #459 Sharmuta

Like you really care.

Maybe he doesn't wanna miss out on jumping into a perfectly good troll pile-on

/not pylon, spell-check, that's an alt-rock band out of Athens, Georgia (the same place that R.E.M and the B-52's came from).

483 Dustyvet  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:26:26pm

re: #468 realwest

Hi Floral Giraffe - well I was mostly upset earlier because I've got a big deal test at the Oncologist's tomorrow and, frankly I'm scared and when I get scared I usually get, ah, aggressive!
But I'm ok nnnnoooooowooow!
:)

Realwest my thoughts and prayers are with you. I'm sure your in the prayers of most all lizards. Hopefully all will go well tomorrow.

484 doppelganglander  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:26:33pm

re: #436 Yashmak

Heck, for all I know (agnostic here), Adam and Eve might be a Biblical metaphor for the evolutionary moment in which primate became man and woman. They say 'the lord works in mysterious ways', after all.


I've considered that. The story seems to me to be about when man achieved self-consciousness, which is a very basic difference between humans and non-humans.

485 kywrite  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:27:05pm

re: #479 Naso Tang

Do you often get this sudden feeling of guilt?

No, only when things are timed just-so.

486 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:27:19pm

re: #478 Zimriel
Well thank you Zimriel - but if you're spare with your praying, could ya save that praying for Thursday morning (that's when I get the results!)?!

487 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:27:45pm

re: #445 Charles

In every thread where I've tried to be reasonable about Barack Obama, the nuts come in after everyone else has left and they have a field day, posting comments bashing me and LGF in general, ranting away, and generally planting a ton of crap.

I mean every thread. And a majority of the people who do this are sleepers, registered for years with only a few comments, who suddenly pop up flinging insults and spewing extremist rhetoric.

I'm going to just start closing comments on threads where this happens.

Not that I don't understand your frustration, but wouldn't that mean they win?

488 AmeriDan  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:28:04pm

re: #475 Macker

Last time I checked my IQ it was 143....

Ha! Mine was 144!

489 Unakite  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:28:07pm

re: #449 Racer X

It makes perfect sense to me.

More so than the Big Rip.

This is your first hypothesis: the universe is a trillion times larger than I can imagine it to be.

It may make perfect sense to you, but it is non verifiable.

490 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:28:13pm

re: #472 AmeriDan

Some idiot troll once claimed it's IQ was 167.

I hadn't seen that. Must have been awhile ago. I thought the cool thing to claim was a "biochemistry" degree.

... the way they post, I wouldn't be surprised at past, indepth experience in lysergic acid and 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methamphetamine....

491 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:29:04pm

re: #483 Dustyvet I appreciate it very much Dusty, but please see my #486 as Thursday is probably when I'll need all the luck and prayers!

492 Eagle  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:29:12pm

re: #452 Cato the Elder

Spencer the Mad immediately posted it too. And maliciously outed my "real identity" as a bonus.

I am beginning to appreciate the foolishness Charles has to deal with. I never suspected the right wing had such a large moonbat population. But I should have suspected Pamela way back when she took that picture with Clinton.

493 Gus  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:29:24pm

re: #488 AmeriDan

Ha! Mine was 144!

Pffft. Mine's 145! //

494 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:29:35pm

re: #458 Racer X

Ooh, that is trippy.

I know. Who needs acid when you've got math?

495 doppelganglander  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:29:54pm

re: #482 Salamantis

Maybe he doesn't wanna miss out on jumping into a perfectly good troll pile-on

/not pylon, spell-check, that's an alt-rock band out of Athens, Georgia (the same place that R.E.M and the B-52's came from).

One of my professors said that you can put virtually any noun into a search engine and one of the top results would be a band.

496 Racer X  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:30:40pm

re: #489 Unakite

Well OK then. Can I just say the universe is really really big?

497 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:31:01pm

re: #445 Charles

In every thread where I've tried to be reasonable about Barack Obama, the nuts come in after everyone else has left and they have a field day, posting comments bashing me and LGF in general, ranting away, and generally planting a ton of crap.

I mean every thread. And a majority of the people who do this are sleepers, registered for years with only a few comments, who suddenly pop up flinging insults and spewing extremist rhetoric.

I'm going to just start closing comments on threads where this happens.

Brave souls, eh? Posting messages to themselves.

498 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:31:10pm

re: #487 Cato the Elder
Hey Cato - how would Charles shutting down what is, but for the idiots he's talking about already be dead, be letting "them" win? They couldn't post their chickenshit when they thought no one was looking (I'm still amazed that they don't know about LGF Spy yet!).

499 AmeriDan  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:31:11pm

re: #490 Zimriel

... the way they post, I wouldn't be surprised at past, indepth experience in lysergic acid and 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methamphetamine....

Heh.

/I think

500 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:31:20pm

re: #468 realwest

Prayers & hugs for you!

501 Unakite  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:31:36pm

re: #458 Racer X

Ooh, that is trippy.

Fractint?

502 Yashmak  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:31:41pm

re: #484 doppelganglander

I've considered that. The story seems to me to be about when man achieved self-consciousness, which is a very basic difference between humans and non-humans.

Exactly! I interpreted it the same way. It's pretty clear to me that there's no good reason for the idea of evolution to be so repugnant to so many. I fear that in many cases, they've just talked to too many ideologues who have told them that science is trying to 'kill god', when in reality it's just another way in which man searches for the truth.

503 Dustyvet  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:31:42pm

re: #491 realwest

I appreciate it very much Dusty, but please see my #486 as Thursday is probably when I'll need all the luck and prayers!

Realwest you got then all the way through this, I promise...

504 Racer X  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:31:54pm

re: #494 Cato the Elder

I know. Who needs acid when you've got math?

Wait, I thought music was math?

505 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:32:05pm

re: #468 realwest

Hi Floral Giraffe - well I was mostly upset earlier because I've got a big deal test at the Oncologist's tomorrow and, frankly I'm scared and when I get scared I usually get, ah, aggressive!
But I'm ok nnnnoooooowooow!
:)

Good luck, bro. I'll be thinking about you.

506 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:32:12pm

re: #490 Zimriel

I hadn't seen that. Must have been awhile ago. I thought the cool thing to claim was a "biochemistry" degree.

... the way they post, I wouldn't be surprised at past, indepth experience in lysergic acid and 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methamphetamine....

AnneFrance was her name, I believe.

507 Salamantis  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:32:32pm

Teh Nollige! It Burnzez Dem!

508 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:32:41pm

re: #488 AmeriDan
Double Ha! When the Army tested my IQ a loooong time ago it was 145!
So they gave me a rifle and said march through them thar rice paddies!
:)

509 Unakite  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:33:22pm

re: #467 Alberta Oil Peon

I don't plan on staying up that late.

:)

510 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:33:54pm

re: #80 funky chicken

A friend taught ancient history at a community college in northern Colorado Springs (home to Focus on the Family and Ted Haggard's New Life Church). He got that kind of response when he taught about Zoroaster. I guess Zoroaster's life story is similar enough to Jesus's to really bring out the fire and brimstone in a lot of his students.

Did he get as far as the Mithraists? That's when it really gets ugly. Jews and Muslims bickering about who really almost got sacrificed has nothing on it.

511 BryanS  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:34:15pm

re: #473 realwest

GREAT IDEA Charles! BTW, about a week or two ago you were considering blocking registered users who ding down folks but don't make ANY comments of their own over a two month period. Thought that was a great idea too - have you given it more thought?

I'd agree with that. Just put in a ding to comment ratio requirement. Those who comment more can ding more.

512 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:34:16pm

re: #465 Naso Tang

Back in the days, when I used to write programs for late night amusement, my first Mandelbrot program, displaying all the pixels on the screen, took over 24 hours per iteration to process.

Those were fun times, when one was probably the first to ever view some of what was shown here.

Me and computers go back to mainframe outsites with a roll of paper for a monitor. The "game of life" was about as complex as you could get with "graphics"...

513 AmeriDan  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:34:26pm

re: #493 Gus 802

Pffft. Mine's 145! //

Big deal. I took the test with one hand tied behind my back. Plus I had a slight fever that day.

514 Dustyvet  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:35:09pm

re: #508 realwest

Double Ha! When the Army tested my IQ a loooong time ago it was 145!
So they gave me a rifle and said march through them thar rice paddies!
:)

You fink, they gave you a rifle? All I got was a bag of rocks, a pat on the head from the first shirt and "good luck "...and it was off to the rice paddy...

515 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:35:12pm

re: #481 realwest

Hey ggt! How are ya tonight? And who the hell would PAY someone to do that?

Hey RW! Hope your test goes well tomorrow.

I'm doing fine tonite, Thanks for asking!

There are whacko puppet-masters out there. I don't think they whacko's need to be paid to be motivated.

516 Dreader1962  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:35:17pm

OT: Iran upset that their intended victim might fight back...

"These outrageous threats of resorting to criminal and terrorist acts against a sovereign country and a member of the United Nations not only display the aggressive and warmongering nature of the Zionist regime, but also constitute blatant violations of international law," Iranian Ambassador Mohammad Khazaee wrote.

...

"Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who has said Israel should be "wiped off the map," has vowed to continue his country's nuclear program."

517 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:35:27pm

re: #452 Cato the Elder

Spencer the Mad immediately posted it too. And maliciously outed my "real identity" as a bonus.

What?!? How the fuck did he find out you're real identity and have y'all asked a lawyer about bringing any legal action against him?

518 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:35:38pm

re: #84 Ward Cleaver

Kinky Friedman's thinking about running again next year, only as a Dem, not independent.

I will always love Kinky, but not enough to move to Texas and vote for him. And my only relatives in Texas just retired to Oregon.

"Winnie Katz's lesbian dance class is like God. Men never see it, but you know it's there."

519 Unakite  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:35:49pm

re: #470 Zimriel

Remember the bad old days, with shit computers, that took three frickin' hours to deliver up a grainy 256-colour approximation of a Mandelbrot?

Young kids today, they don't know how good they got it

We used to walk to school, uphill, both ways, in snow. Now tell the kids about DOS.

520 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:35:49pm

re: #470 Zimriel

Remember the bad old days, with shit computers, that took three frickin' hours to deliver up a grainy 256-colour approximation of a Mandelbrot?

Young kids today, they don't know how good they got it

See my reply to Naso Tang. Yes, I really am as old as dirt.

521 doppelganglander  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:36:08pm

re: #502 Yashmak

Exactly! I interpreted it the same way. It's pretty clear to me that there's no good reason for the idea of evolution to be so repugnant to so many. I fear that in many cases, they've just talked to too many ideologues who have told them that science is trying to 'kill god', when in reality it's just another way in which man searches for the truth.

I've known a number of otherwise intelligent people who are wedded to a belief in the Bible as literal and infallible. It is central to their self-concept and Weltenschauung. If you try to challenge them, even in a friendly, non-threatening manner, they become incredibly defensive and all logic flees. They almost seem to curl up in a fetal position, metaphorically speaking, and rock and chant to make the bad thoughts go away.

522 Gus  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:36:11pm

re: #513 AmeriDan

Big deal. I took the test with one hand tied behind my back. Plus I had a slight fever that day.

Damn, I hate it when they do that.

523 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:36:37pm

re: #500 Floral Giraffe
Thank you very much.
Just do it one more time on Thursday, ok? (yeah, I know I'm being pushy but still...........!).

524 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:37:18pm

re: #503 Dustyvet
Thank you my friend.

525 Unakite  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:37:28pm

re: #475 Macker

Last time I checked my IQ it was 143....

Last time I checked my IQ it was...uhh,

526 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:38:20pm

re: #504 Racer X
Hey Racer X! Well there is a very strong correlation between music and math!

527 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:38:26pm

re: #484 doppelganglander

I've considered that. The story seems to me to be about when man achieved self-consciousness, which is a very basic difference between humans and non-humans.

You really believe that? Ever caught a dog stealing food off your plate when you weren't looking? Self-consciousness defined...

528 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:39:02pm

We spent the last 8 years hearing from Code Pinko's and their kind. New Administration from the other side. We'll get to learn about a whole new batch of whacko's --from the other side.

All Liberals are not looney Left moonbats. All Conservatives are not right-wing nuts.

529 wee fury  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:39:04pm

IQ's are overrated.

530 AmeriDan  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:39:20pm

re: #508 realwest

Double Ha! When the Army tested my IQ a loooong time ago it was 145!
So they gave me a rifle and said march through them thar rice paddies!
:)

You think that's dangurous? favorednation called Mandy a b*tch earlier.

531 doppelganglander  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:39:31pm

re: #527 Cato the Elder

You really believe that? Ever caught a dog stealing food off your plate when you weren't looking? Self-consciousness defined...

Not really. A dog is just sorry he got caught.

532 Yashmak  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:39:55pm

re: #521 doppelganglander

I've known a number of otherwise intelligent people who are wedded to a belief in the Bible as literal and infallible. It is central to their self-concept and Weltenschauung. If you try to challenge them, even in a friendly, non-threatening manner, they become incredibly defensive and all logic flees. They almost seem to curl up in a fetal position, metaphorically speaking, and rock and chant to make the bad thoughts go away.

. . .and then you're right back to the 'some things are too big to consider' situation. Yeah, I've experienced that as well. It always leaves me perplexed and frustrated.

533 Unakite  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:40:00pm

re: #490 Zimriel

I hadn't seen that. Must have been awhile ago. I thought the cool thing to claim was a "biochemistry" degree.

... the way they post, I wouldn't be surprised at past, indepth experience in lysergic acid and 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methamphetamine....

*guilty*

534 AmeriDan  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:41:09pm

re: #530 AmeriDan

You think that's dangerous dangerous? favorednation called Mandy a b*tch earlier.

535 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:41:27pm

re: #512 Cato the Elder

Me and computers go back to mainframe outsites with a roll of paper for a monitor. The "game of life" was about as complex as you could get with "graphics"...

Yeah, Conway's Life came first.

I think I still have a file folder somewhere with the SciAm article and my first program of it.

536 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:41:38pm

re: #498 realwest

Hey Cato - how would Charles shutting down what is, but for the idiots he's talking about already be dead, be letting "them" win? They couldn't post their chickenshit when they thought no one was looking (I'm still amazed that they don't know about LGF Spy yet!).

Ah, of course - I didn't grok that he was referring to threads on life support or dead ones. Makes perfect sense.

537 Salamantis  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:41:39pm

re: #521 doppelganglander

I've known a number of otherwise intelligent people who are wedded to a belief in the Bible as literal and infallible. It is central to their self-concept and Weltenschauung. If you try to challenge them, even in a friendly, non-threatening manner, they become incredibly defensive and all logic flees. They almost seem to curl up in a fetal position, metaphorically speaking, and rock and chant to make the bad thoughts go away.

"There is a strangeness that overcomes people infected with religion when asked tough (but logical) questions about their religion. They all seem to go into the same thought mode and instantly begin to babble incoherently about 'faith'. Then suddenly they snap back to reality. It's as if they suspend time from the moment they realize that they've been asked a question that needs a answer based on logic but there is no logical answer in their head so they begin spewing the rhetoric taught in Sunday school, once done -POOF!- they're back! When confronted that their response was completely devoid of logic, they have NOOOOOO idea what you're talking about."

- from an Amazon review to the book The God Virus.

Sal: The two seem so similar I hadda let you know about it.

538 Yashmak  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:41:45pm

re: #527 Cato the Elder

You really believe that? Ever caught a dog stealing food off your plate when you weren't looking? Self-consciousness defined...

Heh, I caught my german shepherd stealing chow mein off my plate just after reading this comment.

539 doppelganglander  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:41:52pm

re: #532 Yashmak

. . .and then you're right back to the 'some things are too big to consider' situation. Yeah, I've experienced that as well. It always leaves me perplexed and frustrated.

I don't try to change anyone's mind. I just express my opinion and they can take it or leave it. Frankly, not everyone is interested in or capable of thinking deep thoughts. And that's okay, until they try to direct public policy.

540 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:41:54pm

re: #529 wee fury

IQ's are overrated.

Speak for yourself/

541 Dustyvet  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:42:19pm

re: #524 realwest

Thank you my friend.


Your welcome Realwest, Tigers sends you his best also.

542 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:42:52pm

re: #511 BryanS

I'd agree with that. Just put in a ding to comment ratio requirement. Those who comment more can ding more.

Uh, I don't think that's what Charles had in mind. You see there are a group (groups?) of registered lizards who only play here to ding down certain posters and they do it when they think the thread is well and truly dead, so no one will catch them at it. Charles was musing the idea that he would throw 'em of LGF if they themselves didn't do any commenting - which they don't.
The other situation is that there are apparently some idjits out there who wait until a thread appears dead, then post some drivel about the thread topic. That's when Charles ought to close out the comments on that thread!
So we are really talking about blocking two different birds altogether.

543 Unakite  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:42:58pm

re: #490 Zimriel

I hadn't seen that. Must have been awhile ago. I thought the cool thing to claim was a "biochemistry" degree.

... the way they post, I wouldn't be surprised at past, indepth experience in lysergic acid and 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methamphetamine....

The...uhm,,ahh lys...part, not the troll part (come on, be honest). :)

544 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:43:04pm

re: #184 gmsc

That's because the international pirates aren't American.

Believe me, if those pirates had any connection with the USA, they'd be touted as the most evil force on the planet!

Imagine if the pirates were Israelis!

545 wee fury  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:43:24pm

re: #540 Naso Tang

:-)

546 Racer X  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:43:36pm

re: #526 realwest

Hey Racer X! Well there is a very strong correlation between music and math!

Hiya RW!

Music is indeed math.

547 razorbacker  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:44:01pm

re: #527 Cato the Elder

You really believe that? Ever caught a dog stealing food off your plate when you weren't looking? Self-consciousness defined...

It ain't exactly the same, but my brother once asked me why I didn't slow down when I went past a State Trooper.

"Why? He already knows how fast I was going. If I slow down, it looks like I think that I'm doing something wrong."

548 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:44:01pm

re: #531 doppelganglander

Not really. A dog is just sorry he got caught.

No, a dog is sorry it was born with sin.

549 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:44:09pm

re: #521 doppelganglander

I've known a number of otherwise intelligent people who are wedded to a belief in the Bible as literal and infallible. It is central to their self-concept and Weltenschauung. If you try to challenge them, even in a friendly, non-threatening manner, they become incredibly defensive and all logic flees. They almost seem to curl up in a fetal position, metaphorically speaking, and rock and chant to make the bad thoughts go away.

The smarter ones will at least try to debate. They'll recite the talking points from Josh MacDowell and Philip Johnson, and it'll all be lies, but at least they'll debate...

I've definitely seen the insecure ones you've mentioned, online. I've seen them in real life too!

Back in Y2k I saw the Jennings special, with special guest John Dominic Crossan, about the "historical Jesus". We were talking about it at the coffee alcove the next day. A black, female coworker said something to the effect that it was offensive because she had the Bible, trusted the Bible, and didn't like it that it was making the whole Bible wrong. I replied, perhaps a bit excitedly, that it doesn't make anything wrong, it just puts it "open to question".

WRONG thing to say! She left that room and down that hallway like a track star. Like a track star running from hyenas.

Good thing I quit that job or I'm sure I would have heard from Diversity. LOL

550 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:44:36pm

re: #514 Dustyvet Yep. Not only a rifle, but ammo and magazines, too. No Playboys though, drat!
:)
Say didn't your First Sgt at least give ya sling shot with those rocks?

551 BryanS  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:44:52pm

A bit OT, but :

Let my armies be the rocks and the trees and the birds in the sky...ohh, and a bunch of dolphins too.

552 Unakite  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:45:05pm

re: #496 Racer X

Well OK then. Can I just say the universe is really really big?

Yes!

553 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:46:07pm

re: #548 Naso Tang

No, a dog is sorry it was born with sin.

He's man's best friend, perhaps he had a nibble of the fruit of tree of knowledge before getting tossed out of Eden with Adam and his old lady?

554 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:46:17pm

re: #505 Cato the Elder
Thanks Cato - just so long as they're positive thoughts!
LOL!

555 Dustyvet  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:46:41pm

re: #550 realwest

Yep. Not only a rifle, but ammo and magazines, too. No Playboys though, drat!
:)
Say didn't your First Sgt at least give ya sling shot with those rocks?

No, they made me make one...:P I had to steal the spair tire from his jeep for the inner tube...:)

556 BryanS  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:47:05pm

re: #542 realwest


Yeah, you'd need to close threads after a while to cut out the mischief. I think a simple ratio off allowed dings for every so many comments would self regulate those that only lurk in the dark to down ding.

557 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:47:11pm

re: #523 realwest

Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Any time you want or need!
(((((((((((RW))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

558 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:47:36pm

re: #291 karmic_inquisitor

I learned recently that I am a Hominid with Bisexual Capacity.

I am trying to figure out how to tell my wife.

Women don't have that problem. Our husbands are usually thrilled to learn that we are hominids with bisexual capacity.

/OK, I've had too much matzah for one evening, and I'm getting weird.

559 Taqiyyotomist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:48:48pm

I used to be into fractals, and the program Fractint on DOS, to be specific. I don't and didn't know jack about math, but I would fiddle with the numbers on the various options screens, tweaking and refining, sometimes just taking a number down .0001 or up .0001 to see the resulting change. Sometimes I would spend all day doing this, and came up with some amazing images. This was on an intel 486SX (stood for SUX, it was the 25MHz model, I think). It would take the thing three hours to generate one image, sometimes more. I grew tired of the Mandelbrot and Julia sets, but Fractint had another hundred or so fractals besides that.

I want a computer that can let me explore fractals in realtime with a joypad, at 30fps, with controls for zoom, skew, and rotate. Not to mention colorcycling. So far, it still takes a good few seconds to generate the same fractal the 486 took 3 or more hours to draw. Few more years yet before I can fly into the Mandelbrot, few more decades for the less simple fractals.

560 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:48:55pm

re: #517 realwest

What?!? How the fuck did he find out you're real identity and have y'all asked a lawyer about bringing any legal action against him?

I was his Facebook friend, remember? When he joined the Anatolian Reconquest group and I called him on it?

I specifically asked him to refer to me publicly as Cato, which he did until yesterday. I expect he's paying me back in kind, as he sees it.

And I really don't give a mouse turd.

561 Salamantis  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:49:15pm

re: #558 SanFranciscoZionist

Women don't have that problem. Our husbands are usually thrilled to learn that we are hominids with bisexual capacity.

/OK, I've had too much matzah for one evening, and I'm getting weird.

We husbands don't usually mind that, as long as we get to watch...;~)

562 Unakite  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:49:23pm

re: #511 BryanS

I'd agree with that. Just put in a ding to comment ratio requirement. Those who comment more can ding more.

A ding-to-comment ratio was discussed on the previous thread. :)

563 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:49:24pm

re: #515 ggt Well there sure as hell are whackos out there! In fact, iirc, Charles said he'd banned 12, 12 sockpuppets belonging to one banned poster.
and thanks for the good luck wishes!

564 Racer X  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:49:32pm

re: #558 SanFranciscoZionist

Women don't have that problem. Our husbands are usually thrilled to learn that we are hominids with bisexual capacity.

/OK, I've had too much matzah for one evening, and I'm getting weird.

Kin-ky!

- Hedley Lamar

565 Dustyvet  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:49:41pm

re: #558 SanFranciscoZionist

Women don't have that problem. Our husbands are usually thrilled to learn that we are hominids with bisexual capacity.

/OK, I've had too much matzah for one evening, and I'm getting weird.

566 Taqiyyotomist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:50:23pm

re: #542 realwest

I like to go into a thread from yesterday sometimes, just to UPding posters, or to check for replies to my comments. If comments are closed on a thread, can we still at least READ the thread?

567 doppelganglander  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:50:25pm

re: #537 Salamantis

"There is a strangeness that overcomes people infected with religion when asked tough (but logical) questions about their religion. They all seem to go into the same thought mode and instantly begin to babble incoherently about 'faith'. Then suddenly they snap back to reality. It's as if they suspend time from the moment they realize that they've been asked a question that needs a answer based on logic but there is no logical answer in their head so they begin spewing the rhetoric taught in Sunday school, once done -POOF!- they're back! When confronted that their response was completely devoid of logic, they have NOOOOOO idea what you're talking about."

I don't want to come off as anti-religion by any means. I still consider myself a Christian. I think there are things that can't be explained by logic or science. I also think those things have no business in a public school curriculum. We've all seen people "babble incoherently about faith" when confronted with tough questions. I've also seen people graciously acknowledge that not everything we believe can be argued logically or proven scientifically, and leave it at that. In many situations, there's just nothing to be gained by arguing.

568 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:52:15pm

re: #528 ggt

We spent the last 8 years hearing from Code Pinko's and their kind. New Administration from the other side. We'll get to learn about a whole new batch of whacko's --from the other side.

All Liberals are not looney Left moonbats. All Conservatives are not right-wing nuts.

Just sayin': That should be "not all". Otherwise you're saying that none of them are.

569 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:52:51pm

re: #365 Cato the Elder

"Goodbye, and thanks for all the fish!"

Name that quote! (No googling.)

So long, and thanks for all the fish. Written on the fishbowls left behind as gifts by the dolphins when they departed Earth before its destruction in Douglas Adams' Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy trilogy. Also the title of the fourth book in said trilogy. And the refrain of a really catchy song from the just barely OK movie.

570 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:53:07pm

re: #516 Dreader1962
Ah well, according to your link,

Iran demanded on Tuesday that the U.N. Security Council respond firmly to what it described as Israel's "unlawful and insolent threats" to launch an attack on Iran's nuclear facilities.

[emphasis realwest]
See now if Israel wasn't so insolent about it all, that would have made a difference!
I swear there's something really funny - and not in a ha-ha funny way - in the water supply in Iran.

571 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:53:13pm

re: #531 doppelganglander

Not really. A dog is just sorry he got caught.

Can't be sorry if you have no conscience.

572 Gus  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:54:26pm

re: #571 Cato the Elder

Can't be sorry if you have no conscience.

Is there a scientific method for measuring conscience?

573 doppelganglander  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:54:30pm

re: #548 Naso Tang

No, a dog is sorry it was born with sin.

Clearly your dog is smarter than mine.

574 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:54:37pm

re: #553 Desert Dog

Dogs are the perfect example of Intelligent Evolution (known as IE /).

Emulate a more intelligent being just enough that they will be treated as a form of juvenile of the same and be taken care of accordingly.

Although, insects and some birds have thought of the same strategy too. I'm not sure about cats though...

575 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:54:58pm

re: #571 Cato the Elder

Can't be sorry if you have no conscience.

I don't know about that. I have come home to find the garbage all over the kitchen and the dog sure looked sorry to me...Animals have emotions, not as complex as ours, but there nonetheless.

576 Taqiyyotomist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:55:54pm

re: #575 Desert Dog

That wasn't remorse, that was fear. :)

577 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:55:57pm

re: #530 AmeriDan
Holy Crap! Did you do anything or just sit back with the popcorn and watch?!

578 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:56:06pm

re: #539 doppelganglander

I don't try to change anyone's mind. I just express my opinion and they can take it or leave it. Frankly, not everyone is interested in or capable of thinking deep thoughts. And that's okay, until they try to direct public policy.

True. We can't all be Jack Handy.

579 Dustyvet  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:56:26pm

Why Cats are Better than Men

1. A cat always comes in SOBER after being out all night.

2. When a cat goes to the toilet she tries not to leave a trace.

3. You can put a bell around a cat's neck so you know exactly where she is.

4. If you stroke a cat she won't leap on you for sex.

5. You don't mind that much if a cat brings a bird home every night.

6. When a cat comes in at midnight it doesn't wake you up by smashing into the furniture.

7. Cats never pretend they know how to fix the video.

8. Cats don't care what size your boobs are.

9. Cats still love you even when your perm goes wrong.

10. Cats love rubbing up to your legs however much cellulite you have.

11. Cats can be neutered if they stray.

12. If a cat jumps into your lap, a little light petting will satisfy her.

13. It's okay if a cat rubs up against your best friend.

14. If you ask enough times, a cat may actually listen to you.

15. You never have to spend time with your cat's mother.

16. Better chance of training a cat.

17. Cats are cute.

18. A cat is never late for dinner.

19. Cats love to see you come home from shopping with lots of bags!

20. You'll never get a call from you cat's ex-wife.

21. A cat would never leave you for a younger women.

22. Cats treat your mom with respect.

23. Cats don't worry about hair loss.

24. I feels nice to stroke a cats soft, fluffy fur.

25. A cat's friend is less likely to be annoying.

26. Cats can't show love without meaning it.

27. To buy a fancy dinner for a cat only costs 40p

28. Cats actually think with their heads.

29. Unlike a man, a cat can fend for itself.

30. It is legal in all states to neuter a cat.

31. Cats comfort you when you are sick.

32. When a cat sleeps all day it's natural, not annoying.

580 doppelganglander  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:57:24pm

re: #571 Cato the Elder

Can't be sorry if you have no conscience.

So my dog is a sociopath? You're right, they have no conscience, but I couldn't think of a less anthropomorphic way to describe it. As I used to tell my son when he wanted to know the exact origin of some idiomatic phrase, it's just an expression.

581 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:57:45pm

re: #576 Taqiyyotomist

That wasn't remorse, that was fear. :)

JD has a different posture for fear. He had that "Oh shit, the humans came home early" look.

582 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:58:10pm

re: #541 Dustyvet
Ah, how's ole Tigers doing? Give 'em a couple of head bumps for me,would ya?

583 Neutral President  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:59:00pm

re: #578 Cato the Elder

True. We can't all be Jack Handy.

"Whether they find life there or not, I think Jupiter should be called an enemy planet." - Jack Handey

584 AmeriDan  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:59:41pm

re: #577 realwest

Holy Crap! Did you do anything or just sit back with the popcorn and watch?!

Just watched. I'd already jumped on it for ragging on Tennessee earlier.

585 doppelganglander  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 9:59:51pm

re: #575 Desert Dog

I don't know about that. I have come home to find the garbage all over the kitchen and the dog sure looked sorry to me...Animals have emotions, not as complex as ours, but there nonetheless.

They do. But he wasn't "sorry" until you caught him. A conscience would cause him to feel guilt even if he weren't caught. So I have to give the point to Cato.

586 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:00:34pm

re: #553 Desert Dog

He's man's best friend, perhaps he had a nibble of the fruit of tree of knowledge before getting tossed out of Eden with Adam and his old lady?

Dogs do not have original sin. I am not dogmatic about much, but on this point I hold fast.

587 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:01:08pm

re: #559 Taqiyyotomist

The calculations were almost trivially simple, which was part of the appeal (blows away the apparent complexity argument of creationists, for example), but the real trick was in the coloring logic that illustrates the fractal complexity and inter relationships, not to mention the 3D possibilities.

588 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:01:15pm

re: #585 doppelganglander

They do. But he wasn't "sorry" until you caught him. A conscience would cause him to feel guilt even if he weren't caught. So I have to give the point to Cato.

woof

589 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:01:47pm

re: #569 SanFranciscoZionist

So long, and thanks for all the fish. Written on the fishbowls left behind as gifts by the dolphins when they departed Earth before its destruction in Douglas Adams' Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy trilogy. Also the title of the fourth book in said trilogy. And the refrain of a really catchy song from the just barely OK movie.

Got me!

590 Dustyvet  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:01:52pm

re: #588 Desert Dog

woof

Arf said Sandy...

591 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:02:29pm

re: #557 Floral Giraffe
Thank you. Very, very much {Floral Giraffe} - it is appreciated.

592 Dustyvet  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:03:49pm

What is a Dog?

1. Dogs lie around all day, sprawled on the most comfortable piece of furniture in the house.
2. They can hear a package of food opening half a block away, but don't hear you when you're in the same room.
3. They can look dumb and lovable all at the same time.
4. They growl when they are not happy.
5. When you want to play, they want to play.
6. When you want to be alone, they want to play.
7. They are great at begging.
8. They will love you forever if you rub their tummies.
9. They leave their toys everywhere.
10. They do disgusting things with their mouths and then try to give you a kiss.

Conclusion: Dogs are men in little fur coats.

593 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:03:52pm

re: #589 Cato the Elder

Got me!

I have my geeky moments.

;)

594 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:03:57pm

re: #575 Desert Dog

I don't know about that. I have come home to find the garbage all over the kitchen and the dog sure looked sorry to me...Animals have emotions, not as complex as ours, but there nonetheless.

Which was the point I was making. Dog : sorry :: animal : self-conscious :: self-conscious :: has a conscience.

595 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:05:00pm

re: #560 Cato the Elder
Oh yeah. Surprised it took him that long. Still and all, and even though you don't give a mouse's turd, it would appear to me that he intruded upon your privacy and MIGHT have to hire a lawyer to answer your complaint in a court of law.
Folks tell me lawyers are expensive!

596 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:06:56pm

re: #594 Cato the Elder

Which was the point I was making. Dog : sorry :: animal : self-conscious :: self-conscious :: has a conscience.

You are breaking my dog's heart. He thinks he's a person. (Or, that maybe I'm an odd looking bipedal dog?)

597 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:07:33pm

re: #580 doppelganglander

So my dog is a sociopath? You're right, they have no conscience, but I couldn't think of a less anthropomorphic way to describe it. As I used to tell my son when he wanted to know the exact origin of some idiomatic phrase, it's just an expression.

See my #594, please. You missed my point completely. They do have a conscience, else how could they be sorry?

598 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:08:41pm

Goodnight all.

599 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:08:55pm

re: #566 Taqiyyotomist
Heck, Taqiyyotomist I don't know. Only Charles knows and he ain't telling - apparently!
But if he closed off further comments, I'd suppose you could still ding up or down or see your own posts and whether or not you've been dinged up or down.
I really don't get into dinging down at all - unless I offer a comment saying why I was dinging down. And don't really keep track of my "Karma" cause I really don't care.

600 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:10:06pm

re: #596 Desert Dog

You are breaking my dog's heart. He thinks he's a person. (Or, that maybe I'm an odd looking bipedal dog?)

My parent's dog was firmly convinced that we were dogs. He did his best to impose pack behavior on us.

601 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:10:11pm

re: #591 realwest

Blessings & prayers can come from anywhere. They are suprising!
:)

602 Pvt Bin Jammin  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:10:48pm

Hi there lizards, just getting to the thread. I imagine the barbeque is all fired up and ready to go.

603 Dustyvet  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:10:52pm

US Flagged Ship Repelled Attack By Somalia Pirates

Information is rather sketchy so I assume, per article, this was a US flagged ship.

Pirates attacked an American-flagged commercial vessel Tuesday in an unsuccessful new hijacking attempt off of the coast of Somalia.

At about noon EDT, the Liberty Sun reported to the Coast Guard that they were being attacked by pirates. The U.S. Navy sent the USS Bainbridge in response.

The official confirmed it was a failed piracy attempt, and by the time the warship arrived several hours later, the pirates were gone.

Apparently the ship also received damage during the incident. Luckily, all on board are unharmed


[Link: mypetjawa.mu.nu...]

604 slokat  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:11:44pm

re: #597 Cato the Elder


Learned behavior is as rational an explanation as guilt.

605 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:12:58pm

re: #603 Dustyvet

US Flagged Ship Repelled Attack By Somalia Pirates

Information is rather sketchy so I assume, per article, this was a US flagged ship.

Pirates attacked an American-flagged commercial vessel Tuesday in an unsuccessful new hijacking attempt off of the coast of Somalia.

At about noon EDT, the Liberty Sun reported to the Coast Guard that they were being attacked by pirates. The U.S. Navy sent the USS Bainbridge in response.

The official confirmed it was a failed piracy attempt, and by the time the warship arrived several hours later, the pirates were gone.

Apparently the ship also received damage during the incident. Luckily, all on board are unharmed

[Link: mypetjawa.mu.nu...]

Good tactics probably saved her. Many pirate attacks are thwarted because the pirates are spotted in time. It's not that easy to board an evading ship.

606 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:13:10pm

re: #595 realwest

Oh yeah. Surprised it took him that long. Still and all, and even though you don't give a mouse's turd, it would appear to me that he intruded upon your privacy and MIGHT have to hire a lawyer to answer your complaint in a court of law.
Folks tell me lawyers are expensive!

For everybody, including plaintiffs.

Making empty threats of legal action is Robert's specialty, not mine.

607 Athos  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:13:21pm

re: #599 realwest

Heck, Taqiyyotomist I don't know. Only Charles knows and he ain't telling - apparently!
But if he closed off further comments, I'd suppose you could still ding up or down or see your own posts and whether or not you've been dinged up or down.
I really don't get into dinging down at all - unless I offer a comment saying why I was dinging down. And don't really keep track of my "Karma" cause I really don't care.

I think in closed threads there are no more comments or dings permitted but all of the posts can be read.

Hey Real - thoughts and prayers heading your way for tomorrow AND Thursday.

608 Dustyvet  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:13:55pm

re: #605 Dark_Falcon

Somali Pirates Attack U.S. Ship, But Fail to Board New York based vessel was damaged, but crew was unhurt


[Link: rpc.blogrolling.com...]

609 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:13:58pm

re: #603 Dustyvet

US Flagged Ship Repelled Attack By Somalia Pirates

Information is rather sketchy so I assume, per article, this was a US flagged ship.

Pirates attacked an American-flagged commercial vessel Tuesday in an unsuccessful new hijacking attempt off of the coast of Somalia.

At about noon EDT, the Liberty Sun reported to the Coast Guard that they were being attacked by pirates. The U.S. Navy sent the USS Bainbridge in response.

The official confirmed it was a failed piracy attempt, and by the time the warship arrived several hours later, the pirates were gone.

Apparently the ship also received damage during the incident. Luckily, all on board are unharmed

[Link: mypetjawa.mu.nu...]

Now, when will someone, anyone, go into Puntland and pay the pirates a visit at home? This will keep going until that happens. Obama is going to have to send in a sizeable number of ships to stop this nonsense.

And, I am guessing he will get loads and loads (heaps and heaps?) of help from the UN, NATO, et al..................NOT

610 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:14:26pm

re: #596 Desert Dog

You are breaking my dog's heart. He thinks he's a person. (Or, that maybe I'm an odd looking bipedal dog?)

You just don't seem to get it. I'm saying they bloody well are self-conscious and do have a conscience! Read my posts.

611 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:14:34pm

re: #608 Dustyvet

Somali Pirates Attack U.S. Ship, But Fail to Board New York based vessel was damaged, but crew was unhurt

[Link: rpc.blogrolling.com...]

They should have rented the dolphins the Chinese ship used

612 doppelganglander  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:14:47pm

re: #597 Cato the Elder

See my #594, please. You missed my point completely. They do have a conscience, else how could they be sorry?

My apologies. Thanks for the clarification.

613 Alberta Oil Peon  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:15:26pm

re: #597 Cato the Elder

See my #594, please. You missed my point completely. They do have a conscience, else how could they be sorry?

Dogs are plenty smart enough to know that if they do something that violates the rules of the Master, that they can expect punishment. They wouldn't be trainable otherwise. But they may not have the capacity to look very far forward into the future and reason that, "if I snitch this steak now, Master will find out, and thump me later." The thought process is probably more like, "steak smells good, Master absent, eat steak, maybe master blame cat."

I'd like to offer the suggestion that perhaps the distinction that separates humans and animals is that we are, so far as we know, the only animals that think about the process of thought.

614 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:15:41pm

re: #604 slokat

Learned behavior is as rational an explanation as guilt.

Same applies to humans.

615 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:16:05pm

re: #610 Cato the Elder

You just don't seem to get it. I'm saying they bloody well are self-conscious and do have a conscience! Read my posts.

I understand your posts Cato. Relax! My dog is right here with me and I am scratching his ears. If he could talk, he'd say hello.

616 Athos  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:16:54pm

re: #609 Desert Dog

At least if there isn't the will to inflict our displeasure towards the pirate bases, how about organizing the ships in the area into convoys so they can be protected.....and declare a 1000 yd free fire zone around the convoy and escorts - any vessal approaching within 1000 yds without approval by the convoy commander will be sunk. (They can get their warnings at 2000 yds away....)

617 slokat  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:16:56pm

re: #611 Desert Dog

That was a secret Chinese black ops project that was finally put to the test....

618 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:17:31pm

re: #613 Alberta Oil Peon

Dogs are plenty smart enough to know that if they do something that violates the rules of the Master, that they can expect punishment. They wouldn't be trainable otherwise. But they may not have the capacity to look very far forward into the future and reason that, "if I snitch this steak now, Master will find out, and thump me later." The thought process is probably more like, "steak smells good, Master absent, eat steak, maybe master blame cat."

I'd like to offer the suggestion that perhaps the distinction that separates humans and animals is that we are, so far as we know, the only animals that think about the process of thought.

That's more like it.

619 AmeriDan  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:17:53pm

re: #599 realwest

And don't really keep track of my "Karma" cause I really don't care.

It's nice to know that a certain person agrees with you, even when they are in a conversation with someone else.

620 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:18:05pm

re: #616 Athos

At least if there isn't the will to inflict our displeasure towards the pirate bases, how about organizing the ships in the area into convoys so they can be protected.....and declare a 1000 yd free fire zone around the convoy and escorts - any vessal approaching within 1000 yds without approval by the convoy commander will be sunk. (They can get their warnings at 2000 yds away....)

That is what will be the first thing done...but, the motivation for the Somalis to continue will still be there. What a mess that place is.

621 Desert Dog  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:20:11pm

Night all, play nice now

622 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:20:15pm

re: #613 Alberta Oil Peon

Dogs are plenty smart enough to know that if they do something that violates the rules of the Master, that they can expect punishment. They wouldn't be trainable otherwise. But they may not have the capacity to look very far forward into the future and reason that, "if I snitch this steak now, Master will find out, and thump me later." The thought process is probably more like, "steak smells good, Master absent, eat steak, maybe master blame cat."

I'd like to offer the suggestion that perhaps the distinction that separates humans and animals is that we are, so far as we know, the only animals that think about the process of thought.

But if animals can do metacognition, how would we know?

623 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:20:22pm

short night for me.

weet dreams all!

624 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:20:38pm

re: #592 Dustyvet
Ah but: To a cat you are staff.
To a Dog you are family.
(h/t chrissTheprofessor)

625 Van Helsing  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:20:38pm

re: #620 Desert Dog

That is what will be the first thing done...but, the motivation for the Somalis to continue will still be there. What a mess that place is.

Yeah, that whole post-colonial African paradise doesn't seem to be working out too well.

626 Pvt Bin Jammin  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:21:15pm

re: #468 realwest

Realwest, you will definitely be in my thoughts and prayers. Take care.

627 razorbacker  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:21:22pm

I'm not here.

628 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:21:49pm

re: #616 Athos

At least if there isn't the will to inflict our displeasure towards the pirate bases, how about organizing the ships in the area into convoys so they can be protected.....and declare a 1000 yd free fire zone around the convoy and escorts - any vessal approaching within 1000 yds without approval by the convoy commander will be sunk. (They can get their warnings at 2000 yds away....)

Too damn many ships, convoys impractical (shipping costs calculated by the hour, meet-up times eat into profits), not near enough escorts.

What I don't understand is what would be so hard about equipping every commercial ship that sails those waters with a couple of 50mm deck guns or the like, training ABS's to use them, and letting them rip when someone gets too close without good reason.

Problem solved.

629 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:21:58pm

re: #627 razorbacker

I'm not here.

OK, I won't talk to you then.

How you doing?

630 slokat  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:22:15pm

re: #614 Cato the Elder

Isn't one of the attributes of sub intelligence in humans the lack of ability to feel remorse or guilt?

631 Pvt Bin Jammin  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:22:24pm

re: #623 ggt

short night for me.

weet dreams all!

'Nite, ggt. Have a great day tomorrow.

632 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:22:27pm

re: #602 Pvt Bin Jammin
Hey PBJ - Yeah, sorta. The pirates couldn't figure out how to climb aboard and gave up trying!

633 doppelganglander  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:22:33pm

It's way past my bedtime. realwest, you'll be in my thoughts over the next two days. Later, lizards.

634 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:22:41pm

re: #613 Alberta Oil Peon

Dogs are plenty smart enough to know that if they do something that violates the rules of the Master, that they can expect punishment. They wouldn't be trainable otherwise. But they may not have the capacity to look very far forward into the future and reason that, "if I snitch this steak now, Master will find out, and thump me later." The thought process is probably more like, "steak smells good, Master absent, eat steak, maybe master blame cat."

I'd like to offer the suggestion that perhaps the distinction that separates humans and animals is that we are, so far as we know, the only animals that think about the process of thought.

And the cat thinks more like, "steak smells good, Master absent, eat steak, cat don't give a fucking shit, Master won't find me later."

635 Alberta Oil Peon  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:23:07pm

re: #622 SanFranciscoZionist

But if animals can do metacognition, how would we know?

They'd write it down? ;>)

That's why I said "so far as we know".

I have also seen it argued, mainly in the sci-fi realm, that it is the existence of extra-somatic knowledge that defines a sentient race. Worth thinking about.

636 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:23:44pm

re: #630 slokat

Isn't one of the attributes of sub intelligence in humans the lack of ability to feel remorse or guilt?

That's the definition of a sociopath, I think, but I don't think it's associated with low intelligence (is that the same as sub intelligence)? In fact, sociopaths tend to be fairly bright, IIRC.

637 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:23:51pm

re: #607 Athos
Hey thank you Athos, very much appreciated!

638 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:24:35pm

re: #632 realwest

Hey PBJ - Yeah, sorta. The pirates couldn't figure out how to climb aboard and gave up trying!

This is not a comedy movie. People's lives are stake. I will not giggle. Much.

639 Pvt Bin Jammin  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:24:35pm

re: #632 realwest

LOL

Are they still treading water around here somewhere?

640 Alberta Oil Peon  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:24:38pm

re: #634 Walter L. Newton

And the cat thinks more like, "steak smells good, Master absent, eat steak, cat don't give a fucking shit, Master won't find me later."

LOL! Ain't it the truth. And I do love cats.

641 AmeriDan  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:24:56pm

re: #613 Alberta Oil Peon

"steak smells good, Master absent, eat steak, maybe master blame cat."

Could you translate that to human, I'm not fluent in doglish.

:)

642 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:25:24pm

re: #619 AmeriDan

It's nice to know that a certain person agrees with you, even when they are in a conversation with someone else.


Yes it is.

643 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:25:35pm

re: #630 slokat

Isn't one of the attributes of sub intelligence in humans the lack of ability to feel remorse or guilt?

It's definitely the primary criterion for certain types of socio- and psychopathy.

644 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:26:28pm

re: #626 Pvt Bin Jammin
Thank you PBJ, I do appreciate it. I assume your hubby is doing well?

645 NY Nana  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:27:03pm

re: #627 razorbacker

I'm not here.

Me, either! ;)

Loooong day. I am off to sleep.

G'nite, Lizards, sweet dreams.

646 Taqiyyotomist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:27:10pm

God bless you, Charles, and lizards. Goodnight all.

647 slokat  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:27:12pm

re: #634 Walter L. Newton

Cats don't think, they just do whatever feels appropriate at the time...

648 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:27:35pm

re: #633 doppelganglander
Thank doppelganglander - sleep well.

649 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:27:57pm

re: #647 slokat

Cats don't think, they just do whatever feels appropriate at the time...

Nature's hippies?

650 crosspatch  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:28:20pm

"It’s shameful that these kinds of anti-science initiatives are always owned by the Republican Party."

Yeah, no kidding. There really isn't a party I can truly call my own. I wish the Libertarians (big L) didn't always run idiots for office as libertarianism (little l) probably describes my political leanings more closely than anything else.

651 AmeriDan  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:28:49pm

re: #642 realwest

My prayers and positive thoughts to you too.

652 Pvt Bin Jammin  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:28:57pm

re: #644 realwest

He's doing pretty darn well but the pain kicked in Sunday. They stretched all those muscles along the cervical spine & cut one of them, so he's really feeling it. Throat is swollen too.

653 Alberta Oil Peon  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:29:41pm

re: #648 realwest

Thank doppelganglander - sleep well.

Good luck with the oncologist tomorrow, RW. Cancer sucks.

654 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:30:29pm

re: #650 crosspatch
I hear you, but that quote would be more precise if it said ""It’s shameful that these kinds of anti-science initiatives are always owned by some members of the Republican Party."

655 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:31:02pm

re: #649 Cato the Elder

Nature's hippies?

I tend to think of them as very small high-fashion magazine directors. What you feel goes, because you are fabulous. Inherently fabulous. Because you are a cat.

656 slokat  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:31:03pm

re: #649 Cato the Elder

Nature's hippies?

Beatniks...

657 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:31:12pm

re: #651 AmeriDan
Thanks AmeriDan, I do appreciate it!

658 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:31:51pm

re: #652 Pvt Bin Jammin

He's doing pretty darn well but the pain kicked in Sunday. They stretched all those muscles along the cervical spine & cut one of them, so he's really feeling it. Throat is swollen too.

Ugh. All the best...you take care of yourself too, K?

659 Gus  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:32:26pm

Ethology

In 1970, the English ethologist John H. Crook published an important paper in which he distinguished comparative ethology from social ethology, and argued that much of the ethology that had existed so far was really comparative ethology--looking at animals as individuals--whereas in the future ethologists would need to concentrate on the behaviour of social groups of animals and the social structure within them.

Also in 1970, Robert Ardrey's book The Social Contract: A Personal Inquiry into the Evolutionary Sources of Order and Disorder was published. The book and study investigated animal behaviour and then compared human behaviour as a similar phenomenon.

Indeed, E. O. Wilson's book Sociobiology: The New Synthesis appeared in 1975, and since that time the study of behaviour has been much more concerned with social aspects. It has also been driven by the stronger, but more sophisticated, Darwinism associated with Wilson and Richard Dawkins. The related development of behavioural ecology has also helped transform ethology. Furthermore, a substantial rapprochement with comparative psychology has occurred, so the modern scientific study of behaviour offers a more or less seamless spectrum of approaches – from animal cognition to more traditional comparative psychology, ethology, sociobiology and behavioural ecology. Sociobiology has more recently developed into evolutionary psychology.

Much to learn.

660 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:32:30pm

re: #652 Pvt Bin Jammin
Well I hope (and assume) that he'll be feeling less pain everywhere in he near future. At least I pray for his sake and yours that that is true.

661 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:32:51pm

re: #653 Alberta Oil Peon

Good luck with the oncologist tomorrow, RW. Cancer sucks.

Yeah. You take care of yourself too, and take it easy...

662 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:33:07pm

re: #653 Alberta Oil Peon
Thank you - and you're right, cancer sucks, BIG TIME.

663 realwest  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:35:06pm

Well y'all it's late and I gotta get some sleep now (why the hell do doctors ALWAYS schedule tests for ridiculously early hours and conduct them in freezing cold rooms?) cause I got an early morning tomorrow.
But I hope you all have a great evening/early morning and that I get the chance to see you all down the line.

Good Night, all.

664 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:35:10pm

re: #655 SanFranciscoZionist

I tend to think of them as very small high-fashion magazine directors. What you feel goes, because you are fabulous. Inherently fabulous. Because you are a cat.

Too funny, dahling! Gotta dash now, my agent is waiting. No, wait, I'll stay and talk for a while, let him wait, who does he think he is, anyway? You know I adore those sunglasses! Doesn't Paris have a pair like that? Oh, you had them first. Well she always was derivative. [...]

LOLfashuneestaz

665 Pvt Bin Jammin  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:36:14pm

re: #658 SanFranciscoZionist

Thanks. I'm finally starting to feel semi- normal and catching up with rest.

666 trigger girlie  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:37:16pm

dammit, I forgot to time my liberal meltdown...

667 Pvt Bin Jammin  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:37:35pm

re: #663 realwest

Good night, Realwest. We'll be thinking about you.

668 slokat  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:37:51pm

re: #663 realwest

Good luck!

btw they test early in the morning because they usually want you to fast, which is easier at night... or maybe they're sadists.

Either theory is logical.

669 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:38:53pm

re: #663 realwest

Well y'all it's late and I gotta get some sleep now (why the hell do doctors ALWAYS schedule tests for ridiculously early hours and conduct them in freezing cold rooms?) cause I got an early morning tomorrow.
But I hope you all have a great evening/early morning and that I get the chance to see you all down the line.

Good Night, all.

All my good thoughts going your way.

670 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:39:42pm

re: #666 trigger girlie

dammit, I forgot to time my liberal meltdown...

There'll always be next month.

671 trigger girlie  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:40:33pm

re: #670 Walter L. Newton

I just noticed my post #...hmm, the Devil made me post that

672 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:41:15pm

re: #671 trigger girlie

I just noticed my post #...hmm, the Devil made me post that

I know, I asked, that's what he told me.

673 Pvt Bin Jammin  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:41:51pm

re: #666 trigger girlie

dammit, I forgot to time my liberal meltdown...

Full moon will be on the ninth, again next month.

674 Macker  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:42:51pm

re: #671 trigger girlie

Hey Trig! Please fixy you profile linky!

675 Alberta Oil Peon  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:43:20pm

re: #670 Walter L. Newton

Walter, how are you doing? I have been stuck on a well location for over a month now, but I have had good luck finding small ammonite fossils in the shale rock they used as fill when building the roads here. Way cool to pick up a slab of rock, open it like a book, and find a perfect little fossil in there. (Well, not all that perfect, but readily recognizable.)

676 Macker  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:43:45pm

re: #663 realwest

Realwest, my prayers will also be with you. So Say We All!

677 trigger girlie  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:45:00pm

re: #674 Macker

hey Mack! I didn't know there was something wrong with it...thx, I veel

678 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:46:21pm

Saudi Court Refuses to Block Marriage of Girl, 8, to Older Man

"Outraged human rights groups are calling the decision by a Saudi court to -- not once, but twice -- refuse to void the marriage of an 8-year-old girl to a man several years her senior a form of human trafficking."

I say to those "human rights" groups "deal with it, you sick mother fuckers." If you didn't spend all your waking hours blaming all the problems on the planet on the US and Jews, maybe sometime in the past you could have been standing up against this sort of stuff and making some impact on counties and people who support this bat crazy shit.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

679 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:46:39pm

I'm reading about Carlos II of Spain. His Habsburg family had more infant mortality than did peasants in Spanish villages. At conception his DNA was more inbred than the expected average of a brother-sister pairing.

Carlos II couldn't chew his food, he could barely talk, (worst of all from a dynasty's perspective) he could not make love. (His first queen apparently loved him anyway - she committed suicide in frustration.) He was by all accounts mentally retarded as well. Under him Portugal broke away (and Brasil). He did draw up a report on the excesses of the Inquisition - which he then demanded burnt, because it upset him.

Somehow he managed to live to the age of 35. The Spanish were desperate to prop up this pathetic mutant, because without an heir the country was doomed. And the Spaniards were right, because his reign was followed by the War of the Spanish Succession (Queen Anne's War in New England) when the French tried to horn in.

Democracy seems like an unworkable system some times. Then I compare it to hereditary monarchy...

680 Macker  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:47:41pm

re: #678 Walter L. Newton

[Deleted]

681 trigger girlie  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:47:49pm

re: #679 Zimriel

this sounds awful lot like Michael Moore's bio...

/hears banjos

682 dapperdave  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:48:11pm

re: #678 Walter L. Newton

That's sick but it doesn't surprise me, Mohammed took a bride when she was 9.

683 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:48:38pm

re: #675 Alberta Oil Peon

Walter, how are you doing? I have been stuck on a well location for over a month now, but I have had good luck finding small ammonite fossils in the shale rock they used as fill when building the roads here. Way cool to pick up a slab of rock, open it like a book, and find a perfect little fossil in there. (Well, not all that perfect, but readily recognizable.)

I think it's way cool to pick up anything from the planet that speaks of so much science and amazing things.

You and I share that "feeling" and it's hard to explain to others why it is such a rush.

And you have seen some of the stuff that I am talking about.

Wonderful planet, hey.

684 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:49:21pm

re: #678 Walter L. Newton

Saudi Court Refuses to Block Marriage of Girl, 8, to Older Man

"Outraged human rights groups are calling the decision by a Saudi court to -- not once, but twice -- refuse to void the marriage of an 8-year-old girl to a man several years her senior a form of human trafficking."

I say to those "human rights" groups "deal with it, you sick mother fuckers." If you didn't spend all your waking hours blaming all the problems on the planet on the US and Jews, maybe sometime in the past you could have been standing up against this sort of stuff and making some impact on counties and people who support this bat crazy shit.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

IIRC, the man is not 'several years her senior', he's five times her senior. I will say, however:

a. Rights groups typically get trashed hereabouts for NOT speaking up about this sort of thing and

b. I think the rights groups mentioned in the story, if it's the one I read, are themselves Saudi groups. They do what they can, against almost impossible odds.

685 dapperdave  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:52:55pm

Just think Obama bowed down to their king.

686 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:54:35pm

re: #682 dapperdave

That's sick but it doesn't surprise me, Mohammed took a bride when she was 9.

Oh, it doesn't surprise me a bit.

687 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:54:43pm

re: #685 dapperdave

Just think Obama bowed down to their king.

Ick. Just think that we've considered them an ally for decades.

688 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:55:08pm

re: #685 dapperdave

Just think Obama bowed down to their king.

He tripped./

689 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:55:48pm

re: #682 dapperdave

That's sick but it doesn't surprise me, Mohammed took a bride when she was 9 six.

Fixed that for you.

Apparently he held off raping her until she was nine. Perhaps because he was getting plenty elsewhere, from other wives and slave girls. But at nine, she was his meat puppet.

The man all Muslims strive to imitate. Hence the Saudi ruling.

690 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:56:30pm

re: #681 trigger girlie

this sounds awful lot like Michael Moore's bio...

/hears banjos

I don't think I had a specific reason for posting that, other than horror. I just ran into it from the GNXP site. How does an extended family with the power of the Habsburgs go so wrong? They had taboos against incest, yet they thought nothing of "selective breeding" to the extent that it ended up genetically worse.

There is a lot of cousin marriage in Pakistan and Iraq as well, or so I hear; I suspect some of their dysfunctions may well be related.

691 dapperdave  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:56:42pm

re: #687 SanFranciscoZionist

Take away the oil and we wouldn't have anything to with them.

692 dapperdave  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 10:59:32pm

re: #689 Cato the Elder

That's right, she was six, I think someone wrote a book about that "The Jewel Of The Nile" but the publishers bailed because they feared for their lives.

693 Bobblehead  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:00:22pm

Insomnia strikes again.

694 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:00:27pm

By the way, I was in the locker room today after my swim and about to don my "Danish cartoons" T-shirt when I happened to notice that two of the big guys standing around had star-and-crescent tatoos.

So I put it on inside out. I'm no coward, but I didn't like the odds.

And then one of them came up to pet my dog and turned out to be the nicest guy...!

Time to retire that shirt, I'd say.

695 irish rose  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:00:36pm

I'm with you, Charles.
It is shameful.

And pathetic.

696 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:01:08pm

To bed. have to be up early to let the set painter into the theatre in the morning. She has some last minute touch up to do on the set.

Two more days of hell week, and then we open this sucker. Let me tell you folks, remember, the term is show business, and the emphasis is on business, as in work, as in "not play."

See you all later in the AM Wed.

697 dapperdave  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:02:31pm

Good night Newt.

698 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:02:48pm

Gee, all I did was say goodnight, did I roger the thread?

699 Gus  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:03:07pm

re: #698 Walter L. Newton

Gee, all I did was say goodnight, did I roger the thread?

Later Walter.

700 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:03:44pm

re: #690 Zimriel

I don't think I had a specific reason for posting that, other than horror. I just ran into it from the GNXP site. How does an extended family with the power of the Habsburgs go so wrong? They had taboos against incest, yet they thought nothing of "selective breeding" to the extent that it ended up genetically worse.

There is a lot of cousin marriage in Pakistan and Iraq as well, or so I hear; I suspect some of their dysfunctions may well be related.

Cousin marriages have always been preferred in Middle Eastern cultures. It does catch up with you after a time. (I say this as someone whose great-grandparents were first cousins...but my mother and I have outmarried a good distance, so I figure that must help.) The Bedouin in Israel are dealing with some problems that come from inbreeding, and I suspect the high rate of certain medical problems in the Chasidic communities don't just come from nowhere.

North Africa I don't know about. I understand that Berber women have always had a much greater control over their marriages, which might or might not tend to produce more exogamy.

701 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:04:02pm

re: #698 Walter L. Newton

Gee, all I did was say goodnight, did I roger the thread?

Looks that way. Damn you, Walter! Now I have to go to bed.

702 irish rose  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:05:19pm

re: #654 realwest

I hear you, but that quote would be more precise if it said ""It’s shameful that these kinds of anti-science initiatives are always owned by some members of the Republican Party."


Good point.

703 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:06:02pm

re: #692 dapperdave

That's right, she was six, I think someone wrote a book about that "The Jewel Of The Nile" but the publishers bailed because they feared for their lives.


The Jewel of Medina

.

Jewel of the Nile

was the sequel to

Romancing the Stone

, with Kathleen Turner and Michael Douglas.

It did eventually get published, my school's library has a copy.

It seemed sort of goopy when I looked through it, which is a pity. Aisha is an extremely interesting historical figure.

704 irish rose  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:06:46pm

Sorry, I can't stay either.
I have an oxymetry test with my name on it and I have to be asleep for it.

Catch ya in the AM.

705 dapperdave  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:07:32pm

re: #703 SanFranciscoZionist

That's right! What was I thinking, I don't believe Mohammed ever made to Egypt.

706 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:07:49pm

Good luck. I don't even know what oxymetry is.

707 Gus  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:08:34pm

re: #703 SanFranciscoZionist

, with Kathleen Turner and Michael Douglas.

It did eventually get published, my school's library has a copy.

It seemed sort of goopy when I looked through it, which is a pity. Aisha is an extremely interesting historical figure.

Eddy Grant - Romancing the Stone 1984

708 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:08:46pm

re: #705 dapperdave

That's right! What was I thinking, I don't believe Mohammed ever made to Egypt.

I love Romancing the Stone. Best romantic comedy ever.

709 dapperdave  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:10:06pm

re: #708 SanFranciscoZionist

It was a good movie, I think they ran it on t.v. recently.

710 Erik The Red  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:14:17pm

Good Morning/Afternoon/Evening Lizards.

OK who killed the thread?

711 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:15:10pm

re: #710 Erik The Red

Good Morning/Afternoon/Evening Lizards.

OK who killed the thread?

It just died, boss, I swear! I hardly touched it!

712 Neutral President  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:15:29pm

re: #710 Erik The Red

With the concentration of wackos yammering here today, I think they tired us out.

713 Erik The Red  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:16:22pm

re: #712 ArchangelMichael

With the concentration of wackos yammering here today, I think they tired us out.

I missed it all. Is it worth going back to read? If so which thread.

714 Neutral President  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:17:25pm

re: #713 Erik The Red

This one, and 2 threads back. Charles had to put the clamps on that one.

715 Bobblehead  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:18:39pm

2:17 Still awake and lurking.

716 Erik The Red  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:19:15pm

re: #714 ArchangelMichael

This one, and 2 threads back. Charles had to put the clamps on that one.

Thanks I will go have a look. Any regular Lizards flame out or just the usual trolls?

717 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:19:25pm

re: #477 Cato the Elder

Ever tried an ergonomic keyboard? Helped me big time.

It's not the keyboard- I injured my hand last night.

718 Bobblehead  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:20:35pm

re: #717 Sharmuta

It's not the keyboard- I injured my hand last night.

Not seriously, I hope?

719 Neutral President  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:21:58pm

re: #716 Erik The Red

The DHS thread was a mess. Warzone. There was regulars, sleepers, and kooks, but I don't think any regular had an eruption.

720 Erik The Red  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:23:28pm

re: #719 ArchangelMichael

The DHS thread was a mess. Warzone. There was regulars, sleepers, and kooks, but I don't think any regular had an eruption.

It seems that since Charles has closed the Lounge that a lot of sleepers are "waking" up.

721 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:24:27pm
722 Sharmuta  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:24:47pm

re: #718 Bobblehead

No- just a bad bruise on the back of my hand- it's been a little stiff today because it's right over a tendon. I'll be fine in a couple days.

723 trigger girlie  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:28:33pm

re: #720 Erik The Red

Lounge was just that - a lounge, for people to mingle and talk about nonsense. There wasn't much trollism in there, if any.

724 Zimriel  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:34:13pm

re: #703 SanFranciscoZionist

, Aisha is an extremely interesting historical figure.

Yeah, she is. After a quick review of her career I wouldn't put it past her to lie about being Mo's wife just so she could claim power for herself. Men have been known to get pervy around teenagers - as John Derbyshire has mentioned - but six year olds? I'd have thought that if small children were Mo's thing, some irate dad would have caught him drooling at his li'l angel and cut him to bits, prophet or no.

725 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:35:51pm
726 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 14, 2009 11:45:27pm

re: #724 Zimriel

Yeah, she is. After a quick review of her career I wouldn't put it past her to lie about being Mo's wife just so she could claim power for herself. Men have been known to get pervy around teenagers - as John Derbyshire has mentioned - but six year olds? I'd have thought that if small children were Mo's thing, some irate dad would have caught him drooling at his li'l angel and cut him to bits, prophet or no.

I'm chary of this subject--it's emotional, for obvious reasons--but Mohammed does not seem to have made a habit of marrying or letching after young girls. I suspect it was a political match, of the day, and not an expression of a specific sexual interest in little girls.

Sadly, it's the marriage of children, and not the religious and political power of Mohammed's widow, that the Saudis are choosing to imitate. I feel terrible for the mother of the little girl in the article we were talking about above. She's been trying to get the marriage her asshole husband arranged for financial reasons nullified. The courts are refusing to budge.

As Iron Fist pointed out above, little girls can't reproduce, or take on the adult work of keeping a home or a farm. The marriage of children to adult men tends to be the perversion of a society that values the sexual satisfaction of men above the humanity of women, and has enough excess wealth to support the practice. Sadly, the Saudis fit that description to a T.

727 leereyno  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:32:16am

What I don't understand is what sort of sexual satisfaction could be derived from a female who is not old enough to reproduce. I want children. Therefore I want a healthy woman who can give me healthy children. That requires physical maturity, and preferably mental and emotional maturity as well.

A girl who hasn't reached that level of development just isn't on my radar. I see them, but I don't SEE them. The idea of doing something sexual with a girl who isn't grown is about as appealing to me as the idea of licking the bottom of an old shoe worn by a sanitation engineer. No, just no.

So what is it with these sickos from Saudi that girls who aren't even old enough to be considered jail bait are seen as suitable for marriage?

728 Cato the Elder  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 7:40:48am

re: #717 Sharmuta

It's not the keyboard- I injured my hand last night.

Oh, sorry to hear that. I was borderline carpal for a while and the keyboard helped. Thought it might be that.

Hope it heals faster than my foot did this winter. (At least we don't have to walk on our hands.)

729 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 8:40:37am

And in the LOL Department.

Charles, FYI, I know you don't control the content of the ads, but the following is at the top of the front page:

Creationism Vs Evolution
Learn Why Human Beings Do Not Need Blind Faith To Believe Creationism!
730 RexMundi  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 9:57:47am

The Republican party needs to stop associating with right-wing religious fanatics fast or they're going to slump for a long time where they will lose to Democrats by default.

731 thesextons  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 10:03:34am

re: #76 Killgore Trout

I understand and appreciate the premise. However, historically it has been used to preserve slavery, segregation, and a whole lot of other immoral and nutty causes. We've fought wars over this kind of thing. It never works out well. It's another horrible and disastrous idea that conservatives seem to love. It also isn't going to win friends with the rest of the country that simply wants to work to repair our economy. It's not helpful.


The argument, as I understand it, is that the application of the plain language of the 10th Amendment has operated towards insidious ends in the past. Therefore, given the unfortunate citation to the protection of liberty codified in that Amendment, it is nothing more than conservative tomfoolery to cite to this provision of our Supreme Law for any purpose today - including seeking to rein in an increasingly powerful and unrestrained federal government.

I guess because NeoNazis cite to the 1st Amendment to protect their immoral speech and ideologies, we should abandon that Amendment as well. Does the same thing apply to the 4th Amendment? How many immoral criminals have been freed due to law enforcement violations of 4th Amendment rights, including those extending from the 4th Amendment like the right to be "Mirandized"?

Yup, the 10th Amendment is silly and has started wars and has served immoral ends... accordingly, anyone who doesn't ignore it is a lunatic conservative.

732 kernschatten  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 12:40:56pm

Anyone noticed that there's some creationist ads being served in the sidebars?

733 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 15, 2009 1:42:00pm

re: #732 kernschatten

Anyone noticed that there's some creationist ads being served in the sidebars?

Google Adsense is context-driven. What that tells you is that creationist groups have lots of money to promote their Dark Ages garbage.

And I'm glad to take a little bit of it from them, while relentlessly criticizing them.


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