Eyewitness: Violence in Tehran

World • Views: 2,250

An eyewitness account of the clashes between protesters and the Iranian Basiji: Hatred, chaos and savage beatings in Tehran.

For eight chaotic hours I saw the two sides clash throughout the streets of Tehran. These were Iranians versus Iranians, but the two sides were worlds apart in appearance, ideology and brute force.

Moussavi’s supporters were mostly young 20-something men and women. They were college students, young professionals with degrees demanding social freedom, a better way of life, and better relations with the West.

Two teenage girls carrying bricks had French manicured fingernails and designer sunglasses. The protesters threw objects, burned trash bins, honked their horns and chanted “death to the dictator!”

They were loud, until they heard the roar of the motorcycles.

The motorcycles belonged to two groups of Ahmadinejad supporters: Iran’s riot police and the Baseej.

The riot police looked like modern gladiators, muscular and menacing with camouflaged uniforms, black boots, black bulletproof vests and black shielded helmets. They rode in pairs. One drove while the other wielded a club or a baton. They swarmed crowds of rowdy protesters in packs of about 20, beating anyone who got in their way.

On several occasions I saw female Moussavi supporters plead with their male counterparts not to run away. But they almost always did. They were clearly intimidated by the brutal show of force.

The Baseejis were just as ruthless. Those who didn’t ride on motorcycles walked the streets in large packs carrying clubs. They didn’t wear uniforms, so they could easily ambush protesters. They beat one protester so badly that he collapsed in the middle of an intersection and trembled uncontrollably. I saw one battered young man crawl into the lobby of an apartment building, curl up under the stairwell and sob. He had welts on his forehead and bruises up and down his arms.

“They hit me with everything,” he said as he gasped for air. “They hit with clubs. They hit me with chains.”

When the two sides weren’t throwing objects at one another, they were hurling insults. I heard and felt the hatred on both sides.

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706 comments
1 Macker  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:45:39am

"And so it begins...."

-- Kosh Naranek

2 pingjockey  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:46:32am

Even a lame ass statement from the WH would help these folks' morale.

3 Mr Spiffy  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:46:43am

Where is Jimmy Carter when you need him?

4 Mr Spiffy  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:47:13am

sorry, forgot the
/

5 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:47:27am

re: #3 Mr Spiffy

Where is Jimmy Carter when you need him?

Who's side do you expect him to be on?

6 pat  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:47:42am

Carl In Jerusalem has a interesting post on the previous thread that suggests Dennis Ross may be fired as envoy to Iran. This is very disturbing. Ross was one of the few picks by Obama that actually had a clue. He is intelligent and competent. Read the link.

7 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:47:45am
Never since the Islamic Revolution of 1979 have Iran's people appeared this divided.

Let us hope that this is just the beginning of the end for the mullahs.

8 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:48:50am

The people are being very brave. May God be with them.

9 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:49:39am

IranElection09:

Spread to Iranians plzRT @Persiankiwi cnfirmed: karbaschi and karoubi heading to Tajreesh sq tonight at 11pm - now after 10pm #Iranelection

Appears the demonstrations will continue

10 Syrah  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:49:42am

re: #3 Mr Spiffy

Where is Jimmy Carter when you need him?

He is to busy shitting on Israel to be bothered by what is happening in Iran.

11 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:49:50am

A quick aside:

20:24 British PM Brown announces probe into decision to join Iraq invasion (Reuters)

What a jack ass. His gov is failing and that is what he comes up with. G-D protect our British cousins.

12 livefreeor die  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:49:57am

re: #2 pingjockey

Even a lame ass statement from the WH would help these folks' morale.

I wonder how many doctors are sitting at his address to the AMA thinking, "Why are you here right now?"

13 Ben Hur  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:50:16am

re: #6 pat

Carl In Jerusalem has a interesting post on the previous thread that suggests Dennis Ross may be fired as envoy to Iran. This is very disturbing. Ross was one of the few picks by Obama that actually had a clue. He is intelligent and competent. Read the link.

And responsible for Madrid and Olso.

And responsible for Arafat being at the White House more than any other modern "leader" in history.

The only reason he would be fired is because Iran objected to his Jewish ties to Israel.

14 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:50:21am

re: #8 Sharmuta

The people are being very brave. May God be with them.

I wish there were something we here could do to help. They do have my hopes and my prayers right now.

15 experiencedtraveller  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:50:35am

Sadly, the regime will win.

16 pingjockey  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:50:58am

re: #12 livefreeor die
He wants to run the healthcare of this country and make it as efficient as Amtrak.

17 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:50:58am

Just got in- so I'm catching up. Are the protests occurring elsewhere too?

18 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:51:02am

re: #13 Ben Hur

And responsible for Madrid and Olso.

And responsible for Arafat being at the White House more than any other modern "leader" in history.

The only reason he would be fired is because Iran objected to his Jewish ties to Israel.

Well they did. And I'm no Dennis Ross fan, but he was the best of a bad lot.

19 Kragar  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:51:03am

re: #11 Nevergiveup

A quick aside:

20:24 British PM Brown announces probe into decision to join Iraq invasion (Reuters)

What a jack ass. His gov is failing and that is what he comes up with. G-D protect our British cousins.

SMOKESCREEN!

20 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:51:23am

re: #14 Honorary Yooper

I wish there were something we here could do to help. They do have my hopes and my prayers right now.

I thought we were supposed to wear green.

21 Ben Hur  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:51:55am

re: #14 Honorary Yooper

I wish there were something we here could do to help. They do have my hopes and my prayers right now.

I'm pretty sure we've been helping in this process.

I'm sure we have been helping any Democratic forces in the opposition there for at least the last 8 years, if not more.

22 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:52:00am

Repost from last thread (I always seem to come in at the end):

To all those blaming the administration for not doing or saying enough in this situation:

It is in the nature of revolutions (when they go beyond protests that can be put down with a show of force within a week) that they must be fought and won by the revolutionaries.

With a vast imbalance of power in place (cell phones and Twitter against machine guns and tanks), cheering on the side that is likely to lose, no matter how righteous it makes you feel, is likely to make it worse for the losers in the end. They can then be accused of being foreign agents as well as dissidents. See Western reactions to Tienanmen sitch as it was ongoing.

Even if the would-be revolutionaries gain the upper hand, they will have to keep it. What are we going to do, parachute in the 82nd Airborne?

Grow up.

23 jill e  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:52:11am
24 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:52:17am

re: #15 experiencedtraveller

Sadly, the regime will win.

We don't know that. Seemingly strong (to the outside world) regimes have fallen since Louis XVI. Who thought that bread riots in Paris would topple the Bourbons?

25 Ben Hur  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:52:24am

re: #18 Nevergiveup

Well they did. And I'm no Dennis Ross fan, but he was the best of a bad lot.


True.

26 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:53:07am

re: #24 Honorary Yooper

We don't know that. Seemingly strong (to the outside world) regimes have fallen since Louis XVI. Who thought that bread riots in Paris would topple the Bourbons?

I was just a young lad then........

27 Kragar  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:53:15am

re: #15 experiencedtraveller

Sadly, the regime will win.

Sadly, barring a major escalation on the part of the protestors, I feel you are correct.

28 livefreeor die  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:53:18am

re: #20 Sharmuta

I thought we were supposed to wear green.

I put some on-but nothing happened. I'm going to try ruby slippers next.

29 yma o hyd  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:53:20am

re: #11 Nevergiveup

A quick aside:

20:24 British PM Brown announces probe into decision to join Iraq invasion (Reuters)

What a jack ass. His gov is failing and that is what he comes up with. G-D protect our British cousins.

Its evenw rose for Gord. Last week in Parlaiment he promised 'transparency' - and now this 'inquiry' will be held in private, secretly - nothing to be published, no public attendances ...
Another huge nail in the coffin of NuLAb and Gord ...

30 NonNativeTexan  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:53:23am

I believe it is about time for President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
to receive a 3:00 AM telephone call.

31 JohnnyReb  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:53:41am

re: #24 Honorary Yooper

We don't know that. Seemingly strong (to the outside world) regimes have fallen since Louis XVI. Who thought that bread riots in Paris would topple the Bourbons?

Remember Iran has a history of violent government changes, this could be the start of another one.

32 Ben Hur  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:53:52am

re: #23 jill e

The Iranian authorities forgot about Twitter.

I wonder if they forgot about Radio Free Persia out of Israel.

I'm sure they are being flooded with calls.

Last time the students rioted, they called on Israelis to get their message out by calling the radio station.

33 itellu3times  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:54:00am
Moussavi’s supporters were mostly young 20-something men and women. They were college students, young professionals with degrees demanding social freedom, a better way of life, and better relations with the West.

Wait a minute, sounds like CNN crapola to me.

Haven't we read the Mousavi's policies are pretty close to Ahmadinejad's, as far as the west goes? And look at this:

The Baseejis were just as ruthless.

JUST as ruthless? Aren't they the main organ of ruthlessness in Iran? Come on CNN, get conscious.

Sounds to me like there are at least three parties in Iran right now, maybe more. Anmadinejad has stolen an election. Mousavi lost. But real western reform is the third party, and maybe the mullahs are a fourth and not identical with nutjob.

Not that I have any expertise on Iran as such, just trying to make sense of it all.

34 Baier  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:54:26am

The sad thing is that Obama could tilt this in favor of the protesters, but I don't believe he has the faith in democracy that a POTUS should have.

35 Racer X  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:54:32am

re: #2 pingjockey

Even a lame ass statement from the WH would help these folks' morale.

Perhaps. How would they receive it?

36 [deleted]  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:54:37am
37 Gearhead  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:54:51am

re: #30 NonNativeTexan

I believe it is about time for President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
to receive a 3:00 AM telephone call.

Obama really thinks he can fire him, too?

38 Kragar  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:55:10am

re: #35 Racer X

Perhaps. How would they receive it?

Voice of America?

39 Macker  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:55:13am

Phone call on Fox from Rob Sobhani, President of Caspian Energy Consulting: Sobhani calls these protests a Counter-Revolution!

40 itellu3times  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:55:39am

re: #22 Cato the Elder

It is in the nature of revolutions (when they go beyond protests that can be put down with a show of force within a week) that they must be fought and won by the revolutionaries.

Ahem. Does not seem to apply to the American revolutionaries, who might not have won without the French fleet and material aid.

41 Ben Hur  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:55:53am

Of course OUR regime will question the legitimacy of the Iranian elections, then sit with Dinnerjacket, regardless.

42 Flyovercountry  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:56:06am

Pandora's Box has been opened in President Carter's worst mistake. No matter how this ends, for now, There are a lot of unhappy persians who know they are not alone. The thugs in charge will have to spend much more effort in keeping in control than they used to. This may not happen now, but like black bamboo, which takes over five years to germinate before it grows to majestic heights, there will be a change in Iran.

43 Silvergirl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:56:07am

re: #28 livefreeor die

I put some on-but nothing happened. I'm going to try ruby slippers next.

Try the emerald slippers.

44 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:56:19am

re: #26 Nevergiveup

I was just a young lad then........

And the Bourbon wasn't that good... but we fought on...

45 Last Mohican  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:56:25am

re: #35 Racer X

Perhaps. How would they receive it?

Twitter?

46 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:56:31am

re: #32 Ben Hur

I wonder if they forgot about Radio Free Persia out of Israel.

I'm sure they are being flooded with calls.

Last time the students rioted, they called on Israelis to get their message out by calling the radio station.


I think they may be having trouble getting phone lines open. From PersianKiwi earlier:

persiankiwitoo much happening too fast - cant keep up. we need more telephones. too much calls - #Iranelection

persiankiwiwe are going offline to get a phone free for calling out. we are also moving location - too long here - is dangerous. #Iranelection

47 Racer X  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:57:22am

re: #22 Cato the Elder

I occasionally agree with your posts, however your preachiness is demeaning. No upding for you.

48 turn  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:57:26am

winston06 confirmed one protester was shot dead at the end of the last thread. Never been to his site before just now but you gotta love this

"((Attn moonbats & Leftists: This weblog is to side with the Neo-con American Right-wing Zionist/Christian Imperialist Conspiracies against the Iranian Mullahs and Islamic Jihadists and their fellows in liberal circles. If this is your cup of tea, please enjoy your stay here. If not, please back off & don't waste your time and energy))"

49 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:57:29am

re: #40 itellu3times

Ahem. Does not seem to apply to the American revolutionaries, who might not have won without the French fleet and material aid.

That was after we had proven our staying power. The French did not jump in until they thought we stood a chance. They would have been stupid to do it any other way.

50 NonNativeTexan  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:57:53am

re: #37 Gearhead

He can at least look the other way if Iran has the misfortune
of a couple of industrial accidents at a few nuclear reactors.

51 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:57:57am

re: #47 Racer X

I occasionally agree with your posts, however your preachiness is demeaning. No upding for you.

I'm crushed.

52 vxbush  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:57:57am

I have to say, it's kind of wild to be watching this from the outside.

53 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:57:59am

I'm sorry, Yooper. We had someone go off last night about Iran who was angry about the Darwin movie thread. He said we should wear green. Here's is what Winston says on his blog as far as what we can do to help:

A friend asked about how he can help: Write to your MPs, elected officials and governments. Demand they don't negotiate with the mullahs under any circumstances.

I think that's about as good as we can do.

54 jcm  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:58:17am

re: #15 experiencedtraveller

Sadly, the regime will win.

It's not over until it's over.

Lot of variables yet. The youth have the mass of weight, the Pasadran the weight of Arms. The regular army as far as I've seen hasn't moved yet.

A GODDAMN MOTHERFUCKING STATEMENT OF SUPPORT OF FREEDOM FROM OBAMA WOULD DO A WORLD OF GOOD Instead FCBBHO is plotting to take my freedom away.

55 Ben Hur  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:58:31am

I fear The One and the Euros will let this storm pass, all in the name of STABILITY.

56 Racer X  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:58:38am

re: #45 Last Mohican

Twitter?

Someone posted earlier the mullahs have turned off internet access.

57 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:58:58am

re: #49 Cato the Elder

That was after we had proven our staying power. The French did not jump in until they thought we stood a chance. They would have been stupid to do it any other way.

Very true, they waited until after we won at Saratoga.

58 subsailor68  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:59:06am

The riot police looked like modern gladiators, muscular and menacing with camouflaged uniforms, black boots, black bulletproof vests and black shielded helmets. They rode in pairs. One drove while the other wielded a club or a baton. They swarmed crowds of rowdy protesters in packs of about 20, beating anyone who got in their way.

For some reason that reminded me of the scene in Dr. Zhivago, where the cavalry charges the demonstrators in the streets, slashing with their sabers as they ride them down.

I was 15 when I saw that movie, and I've never forgotten that scene.

God bless these young people.

59 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:59:07am

re: #15 experiencedtraveller

Sadly, the regime will win.

Possibly.

If there's a hard-core group and some arms caches, all bets are off.

60 Racer X  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:59:14am

re: #51 Cato the Elder

I'm crushed.

LOL!

61 redstateredneck  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:59:20am

re: #52 vxbush

I have to say, it's kind of wild to be watching this from the outside.


I totally agree. Thanks to reine, winston and the others who are keeping us updated. Hopefully, we are witnessing history.

62 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 10:59:39am

Tweets slowing down considerably. Not much coming thru right now.

I need a cup of coffee.

63 Gus  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:00:07am

The liberals at LGF are showing their true colors today.

64 vxbush  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:00:11am

re: #62 reine.de.tout

Tweets slowing down considerably. Not much coming thru right now.

I need a cup of coffee Coca-Cola.

65 Last Mohican  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:00:18am

I have a bad feeling that, in the end, a lot of brave Iranians will be dead or in prison, and the government will remain unchanged. I'm remembering Tiananmen Square.

66 vxbush  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:00:27am

re: #64 vxbush

Ahem. Fixed that. Sorry. :D

67 Rednek  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:00:28am

Just look at these guys.

I see a sitcom waiting to be born.

68 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:00:36am

re: #64 vxbush

Or better yet, CHOCOLATE.
:-)

69 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:00:42am

re: #49 Cato the Elder

That was after we had proven our staying power. The French did not jump in until they thought we stood a chance. They would have been stupid to do it any other way.

Trenton was the proof for the French.

70 Mr Spiffy  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:00:44am

re: #24 Honorary Yooper

We don't know that. Seemingly strong (to the outside world) regimes have fallen since Louis XVI. Who thought that bread roots in Paris would tipple the Bourbons?

ftfy?

PS I'm not above tippling a few bourbons myself

71 turn  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:01:11am

re: #54 jcm

It will have to come from someone like Cheney sadly. The response needs to be measured for sure. If only they could get really squeezed on gasoline right now, that could be a tipping point.

72 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:01:22am

re: #54 jcm

It's not over until it's over.

Lot of variables yet. The youth have the mass of weight, the Pasadran the weight of Arms. The regular army as far as I've seen hasn't moved yet.

A GODDAMN MOTHERFUCKING STATEMENT OF SUPPORT OF FREEDOM FROM OBAMA WOULD DO A WORLD OF GOOD Instead FCBBHO is plotting to take my freedom away.

How can Obama phrase it so not to be seen as supporting either candidate ( since both really kinda suck from our point of view) or the Mullahs ( who defiantly suck ) and just as support of the Young people demonstrating?

73 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:01:27am

re: #54 jcm

It's not over until it's over.

Lot of variables yet. The youth have the mass of weight, the Pasadran the weight of Arms. The regular army as far as I've seen hasn't moved yet.

A GODDAMN MOTHERFUCKING STATEMENT OF SUPPORT OF FREEDOM FROM OBAMA WOULD DO A WORLD OF GOOD Instead FCBBHO is plotting to take my freedom away.

An empty statement in support of an abstract ideal with nothing that could conceivably back it up in the real world would help the outnumbered, outgunned and outflanked cell-phone rebels how, exactly? Please be specific.

74 yma o hyd  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:01:28am

Is there a list of twitter sites one can follow?

(Sorry, am not clued up right now ...)

75 Billy Hank  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:01:33am

A shrewd CIA would have feet on the ground making all kinds of contacts with protestors and working for both America's short and long term interests.

Oh yeah, forgot myself. Never mind.

76 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:01:34am

re: #52 vxbush

I have to say, it's kind of wild to be watching this from the outside.

It would be even wilder to participate. I sincerely hope never to have to chose to run that risk.

77 Gearhead  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:01:55am

re: #55 Ben Hur

I fear The One and the Euros will let this storm pass, all in the name of STABILITY.

Has it occurred to them that toppling a nuke-crazed nut and his boss might lead to greater long-term stability (law of unintended consequences notwithstanding)?

I guess they'd rather have a negotiating partner they can brag about in re-election ads.

78 KenJen  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:02:18am

re: #67 Rednek

Just look at these guys.

I see a sitcom waiting to be born.

Theme song: "Just the good ol boys. Never mean'in no harm..."

79 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:02:45am

re: #57 Honorary Yooper

Very true, they waited until after we won at Saratoga.

Trenton, I think?

80 Silvergirl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:03:00am

re: #22 Cato the Elder

The "grow up" was overkill.

Your lofty perch is so very high nobody can grow enough to reach you.

81 shiplord kirel  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:03:07am

re: #11 Nevergiveup

A quick aside:

20:24 British PM Brown announces probe into decision to join Iraq invasion (Reuters)

What a jack ass. His gov is failing and that is what he comes up with. G-D protect our British cousins.

Once again, the Blighty left will blame the mentally defective monkey-boy Bush and his redneck followers for somehow managing to bamboozle and manipulate his sophisticated British betters into doing his bidding.
Do the British chatterati ever bother to listen to themselves? It is almost as if someone is paying them to be so foolish. Follow the money trail.

82 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:03:19am
They beat one protester so badly that he collapsed in the middle of an intersection and trembled uncontrollably. I saw one battered young man crawl into the lobby of an apartment building, curl up under the stairwell and sob. He had welts on his forehead and bruises up and down his arms.

“They hit me with everything,” he said as he gasped for air. “They hit with clubs. They hit me with chains.”

at least they didn't put panties on this poor fellow's head .... because as we know, THAT IS TORTURE.

/

Can someone please calibrate the moral compass of our President?

83 vxbush  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:03:47am

re: #76 Dianna

It would be even wilder to participate. I sincerely hope never to have to chose to run that risk.

Yes, being on the inside would be pretty freaky. I'm amazed at their tenacity.

84 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:03:55am

re: #74 yma o hyd

Is there a list of twitter sites one can follow?

(Sorry, am not clued up right now ...)

Twitterers posting from inside Iran.

Choose the ones you want to follow.
I chose the ones posting English (wonder why?)

85 American Soldier  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:04:04am

At the end of the day, there will remain Persians with nukes.

So what is a Persian moderate? One willing to use a 5-Kiloton nuke instead of a 10K over Tel Aviv. Feh.

86 Wendya  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:04:45am

re: #55 Ben Hur

I fear The One and the Euros will let this storm pass, all in the name of STABILITY.

Exactly. They'd rather deal with Ahmadinejad than with an unknown.

87 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:04:58am

From the video on the last thread- it looks like a river of people in the streets. That's just amazing. They're not afraid anymore.

88 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:05:27am

winston's tweet:

I think the regime has lost the control of the situation in #IranElection riots. #Tehran looks like 1979 revolution

89 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:05:29am

re: #65 Last Mohican

I have a bad feeling that, in the end, a lot of brave Iranians will be dead or in prison, and the government will remain unchanged. I'm remembering Tiananmen Square.

The regime hasn't deployed more than some riot police and street thugs. If the protests keep growing, they're going to have to do more than that.

There is no guarantee the regime can get the army to move against their friends and relations. And, if the protests move beyond Tehran? Do they have anything to control the whole country?

This could get very, very interesting.

90 Sunlight  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:05:54am

re: #15 experiencedtraveller

Sadly, the regime will win.

They will because both people that are being protested for will support what these mullahs want to do. So either way, they get what they want.

91 soxfan4life  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:06:03am

re: #87 Sharmuta

From the video on the last thread- it looks like a river of people in the streets. That's just amazing. They're not afraid anymore.

Let's just hope that while the free world remains quiet the people are not made to be afraid of the mullahs again.

92 Silvergirl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:06:03am

re: #89 Dianna

The regime hasn't deployed more than some riot police and street thugs. If the protests keep growing, they're going to have to do more than that.

There is no guarantee the regime can get the army to move against their friends and relations. And, if the protests move beyond Tehran? Do they have anything to control the whole country?

This could get very, very interesting.

I hope interesting doesn't include tanks.

93 CommonCents  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:06:06am

"Let's put an end to the politics of fear..."

Obama calls the health care system a "ticking time-bomb" for the economy.

94 brookly red  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:06:27am

re: #84 reine.de.tout

Twitterers posting from inside Iran.

Choose the ones you want to follow.
I chose the ones posting English (wonder why?)

I bet that somewhere in China a crack team is hard at work figuring out a way to shut down twitter.

95 yma o hyd  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:06:32am

re: #81 shiplord kirel

Once again, the Blighty left will blame the mentally defective monkey-boy Bush and his redneck followers for somehow managing to bamboozle and manipulate his sophisticated British betters into doing his bidding.
Do the British chatterati ever bother to listen to themselves? It is almost as if someone is paying them to be so foolish. Follow the money trail.

see my #29, above.

Nobody will know anything, as this iquiry is going to be held 'in privtae' - thats secret, for everybody.

The LLL especially are up in arms about this because its typically Gord, who said he wants more transparency - and then this.
Its over, for NuLab - even the hard-core Grauniad readers are lambasting this regime now.

96 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:07:02am

re: #12 livefreeor die

I wonder how many doctors are sitting at his address to the AMA thinking, "Why are you here right now?"

Lots of Persian doctors in the U.S. I wonder if one of them would like to commandeer the stage.

97 Racer X  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:07:04am

re: #93 CommonCents

"Let's put an end to the politics of fear..."

Obama calls the health care system a "ticking time-bomb" for the economy.

And yet he ignores REAL ticking time bombs.

98 Pvt Bin Jammin  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:07:08am

re: #53 Sharmuta

I'm sorry, Yooper. We had someone go off last night about Iran who was angry about the Darwin movie thread. He said we should wear green. Here's is what Winston says on his blog as far as what we can do to help:


I think that's about as good as we can do.

From the tweets:
RT @oxfordgirl: Some reports Tajreesh demo tonight set to mach to Khameni House. #iranelection #iranelections #iTehran #Azadi

[Link: twitter.com...]

99 DisturbedEma  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:07:30am

re: #80 Silvergirl

The "grow up" was overkill.

Your lofty perch is so very high nobody can grow enough to reach you.

grow up was insulting. . .

100 vxbush  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:07:34am

re: #93 CommonCents

"Let's put an end to the politics of fear..."

Obama calls the health care system a "ticking time-bomb" for the economy.

That's because Medicare and Social Security have been underfunded for ages and are very much in the red. There are nothing but IOUs in the supposed lock boxes.

101 yma o hyd  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:07:52am

re: #84 reine.de.tout

Twitterers posting from inside Iran.

Choose the ones you want to follow.
I chose the ones posting English (wonder why?)


Hiya, {reine}!
Thanks - yeah, English twitters look like a good choice ...

(My farsi is no-existent ...)

102 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:07:57am

re: #88 reine.de.tout

Winston's not the only to say that. From the looks of it- most of Tehran is on the streets, against the regime, and other cities are protesting too. Others have said- the genie is out of the bottle, and it's not going back it.

103 JohnnyReb  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:07:58am

re: #89 Dianna


I honestly can see the regular army refusing to obey orders in this mess. After all they would be firing at their own families and friends. I predict that the government will keep them out of the picture and use the revolutionary guard dudes only. And there are not enough of those guys to cover all of the major population centers adequately IIRC.

104 pink freud  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:08:03am

re: #63 Gus 802

The liberals at LGF are showing their true colors today.

No different than any other day recently. Tiresome.

105 Kronocide  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:08:05am

re: #22 Cato the Elder

What are we going to do, parachute in the 82nd Airborne?

Grow up.

Probably wouldn't happen since nobody in the seats of power have the stones to do it. What I'm essentially hearing is 'we can't do anything, so fuck it.'

That's the left of the last 50 years. All for freedom and democracy unless you have to actually take some risks or work for it. Saying 'grow up' doesn't deal with that.

106 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:08:29am

20:49 Ahmadinejad: The West is pushing Mousavi to overthrow my government (Ch. 10)

Is that a warning to Mousavi from the powers that be?

107 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:08:37am

z

108 Sunlight  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:08:37am

re: #54 jcm

It's not over until it's over.

Lot of variables yet. The youth have the mass of weight, the Pasadran the weight of Arms. The regular army as far as I've seen hasn't moved yet.

A GODDAMN MOTHERFUCKING STATEMENT OF SUPPORT OF FREEDOM FROM OBAMA WOULD DO A WORLD OF GOOD Instead FCBBHO is plotting to take my freedom away.

A statement of support of freedom would require that other candidates be introduced who don't support the mullahs. Not an option with the two now at the center. I don't want our govt to support either of these two. If the protesters start shouting for non-mullah-supporting leaders, then maybe.

109 jcm  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:08:44am

re: #73 Cato the Elder

An empty statement in support of an abstract ideal with nothing that could conceivably back it up in the real world would help the outnumbered, outgunned and outflanked cell-phone rebels how, exactly? Please be specific.

Are you for Liberty or are you not?

Simple enough question.

Where would you have been on April 19, 1775?

My guess is in your root cellar whining it was hopeless to go up against the British Empire.

110 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:08:44am

re: #22 Cato the Elder

Piss off.

111 brookly red  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:08:49am

re: #100 vxbush

That's because Medicare and Social Security have been underfunded for ages and are very much in the red. There are nothing but IOUs in the supposed lock boxes.

/ssshhhh... the unicorns will hear you.

112 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:09:16am

re: #102 Sharmuta

Winston's not the only to say that. From the looks of it- most of Tehran is on the streets, against the regime, and other cities are protesting too. Others have said- the genie is out of the bottle, and it's not going back it.

Did you see the photos I linked to, previous thread?
It looks like a sea of people.

113 wiffersnapper  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:09:28am

Religion of Peace as demonstrated by the Country for Peaceful Nukes.

114 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:09:30am

re: #24 Honorary Yooper

We don't know that. Seemingly strong (to the outside world) regimes have fallen since Louis XVI. Who thought that bread riots in Paris would topple the Bourbons?

But after the Bourbons, we got the Terror. I'm not one of those folks who puts down the French Revolution, but what the hell happens next if these folks get what they want? What DO these folks want?

115 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:09:34am

Dead kid, it looks like.

See here

Madyar writes:

no mo. It is a crime ... one person dead in Tehran #IranElection

116 subsailor68  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:09:36am

re: #95 yma o hyd

see my #29, above.

Nobody will know anything, as this iquiry is going to be held 'in privtae' - thats secret, for everybody.

The LLL especially are up in arms about this because its typically Gord, who said he wants more transparency - and then this.
Its over, for NuLab - even the hard-core Grauniad readers are lambasting this regime now.

Hi yma! Hope you're doing well!

I watched Prime Minister's Question Time last night (repeat on our CSPAN network here). It was pretty depressing. All Brown could seem to say - regardless of comments or questions from either the Conservatives or the LibDems - was how the Conservatives want to cut spending and put people in misery, while he was pledged to more spending. Every question.

It was a bit depressing.

117 Gus  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:09:40am

re: #104 pink freud

No different than any other day recently. Tiresome.

True colors today. I shall not forget.

118 livefreeor die  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:09:42am

re: #93 CommonCents

"Let's put an end to the politics of fear..."

Obama calls the health care system a "ticking time-bomb" for the economy.

Ummm, Mr. President, speaking of ticking time-bombs...have you watched the news at all this morning?

119 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:09:43am

re: #22 Cato the Elder

My point exactly.

re: #422 sattv4u2

no it wasn't. Your point "exactly" is that we canNOT do anything becasue we did not do anything in 1989.

I told you that during Tianeman, we didn't have any outrage AT THAE TIME, only after

Now ,, we are witnessing it LIVE and in REAL TIME

Followed by the gartuitous GROW UP shot

120 Racer X  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:09:56am

re: #107 sattv4u2

z

You forgot x and y.

121 CommonCents  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:10:01am

re: #100 vxbush

That's because Medicare and Social Security have been underfunded for ages and are very much in the red. There are nothing but IOUs in the supposed lock boxes.

That may be true but his language of "ticking time-bombs" is meant to drive the fear emotion. The same language he railed against in his campaign.

122 Wendya  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:10:04am

re: #93 CommonCents

"Let's put an end to the politics of fear..."

Obama calls the health care system a "ticking time-bomb" for the economy.

President Barack Obama pushed hard Monday for a health care overhaul, saying the system is "a ticking bomb" for the budget that could force America to "go the way of GM" without a legislative fix.

Well if you keep spending trillions of dollars we don't have, I can damned well guarantee there will be thousands of "GMs" in our future.

123 DisturbedEma  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:10:10am

re: #105 BigPapa

Probably wouldn't happen since nobody in the seats of power have the stones to do it. What I'm essentially hearing is 'we can't do anything, so fuck it.'

That's the left of the last 50 years. All for freedom and democracy unless you have to actually take some risks or work for it. Saying 'grow up' doesn't deal with that.

Again, dear leader CALLED to those around the world to "unclench the fist" here it is, and we wait for the plan. . .

124 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:10:20am

re: #106 Nevergiveup

20:49 Ahmadinejad: The West is pushing Mousavi to overthrow my government (Ch. 10)

Is that a warning to Mousavi from the powers that be?

That's why Obama hasn't said much. Ahmadinejad would love to make this look like a Western plot against Iran.

125 redstateredneck  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:10:23am

re: #112 reine.de.tout

Did you see the photos I linked to, previous thread?
It looks like a sea of people.


Posted reports started as thousands, then tens of thousands, and now hundred of thousands.

126 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:10:27am

re: #120 Racer X

You forgot x and y.

I nodded off for a moment

//

127 Last Mohican  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:10:31am

re: #85 American Soldier

At the end of the day, there will remain Persians with nukes.

So what is a Persian moderate? One willing to use a 5-Kiloton nuke instead of a 10K over Tel Aviv. Feh.

Well, I admit that nobody ever went broke by overestimating the capacity of any Muslim group to hate Jews.

However, FWIW, an Iranian friend of mine tells me that some Iranians remember the biblical story detailing how, around 536 BC, the Persian king Cyrus conquered Jerusalem from the Babylonians, who had destroyed the city and burned down the Jewish temple. Cyrus issued a proclamation allowing the Jews to return and rebuild their temple. Apparently, some Iranians are now hoping that the Jews will return the favor, and somehow come to liberate their own country from the grip of the mullahs.

128 tfc3rid  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:10:33am

Is this what George W. Bush was trying to help make happen for the last 8 years?

129 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:10:34am

re: #87 Sharmuta

From the video on the last thread- it looks like a river of people in the streets. That's just amazing. They're not afraid anymore.

That's a temporary situation. The test is if they can face down formed units, even just heavy riot police.

130 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:10:44am

CNN, MSNBC, and FNC not a word about Iran.

131 itellu3times  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:10:52am

re: #49 Cato the Elder

That was after we had proven our staying power. The French did not jump in until they thought we stood a chance. They would have been stupid to do it any other way.

You might want to review British-French relationships, say 1500-1800.

132 JohnnyReb  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:10:52am

re: #93 CommonCents

"Let's put an end to the politics of fear..."

What a total asswipe! First he calls health care a ticking time bomb and then says beware of the tactics of fear from the opposition. What a truly staggering load of 100% pure BS!

CHICAGO (AP) -- President Barack Obama pushed hard Monday for a health care overhaul, saying the system is "a ticking bomb" for the budget that could force America to "go the way of GM" without a legislative fix.

Obama went before the American Medical Association in Chicago to declare anew that the existing system leaves too many uninsured and forces "excessive defensive medicine" by doctors worried about malpractice suits. He also declared once again that he does not favor socialized medicine and cautioned people to beware of "scare tactics and fear-mongering" by critics who make this claim


Obama calls the health care system a "ticking time-bomb" for the economy.

133 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:10:53am

re: #98 Pvt Bin Jammin

From the tweets:
RT @oxfordgirl: Some reports Tajreesh demo tonight set to mach to Khameni House. #iranelection #iranelections #iTehran #Azadi

[Link: twitter.com...]

Interesting- I looked at the picture linked there too, and there were more than just youths in the street. Middle aged men and women in the photo too.

134 Flyers1974  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:11:02am

re: #34 Baier

How so? Are you advocating that Obama should take military action? Or do you believe a statement will alter the outcome?

135 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:11:23am

re: #124 Killgore Trout

That's why Obama hasn't said much. Ahmadinejad would love to make this look like a Western plot against Iran.

I had to look outside and see if there was an eclipse or something, since I agree with ya.

136 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:11:26am

re: #109 jcm

Are you for Liberty or are you not?

Simple enough question.

Where would you have been on April 19, 1775?

My guess is in your root cellar whining it was hopeless to go up against the British Empire.

No, he would have been at the Most Holy and Undivided Trinity College of Cambridge arguing with Sir Isaac Newton over the usage of the word "neener."

137 tfc3rid  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:11:51am

re: #130 FurryOldGuyJeans

CNN, MSNBC, and FNC not a word about Iran.

Very sad. This is a HUGE story...

138 soxfan4life  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:11:53am

re: #114 SanFranciscoZionist

But after the Bourbons, we got the Terror. I'm not one of those folks who puts down the French Revolution, but what the hell happens next if these folks get what they want? What DO these folks want?


Freedom fom the oppression of the mullahs. While there may be a bit of unrest until their new leader fills the vacuum, it will not be as violent as the last 30 years under the clerics.

139 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:11:56am

re: #92 Silvergirl

I hope interesting doesn't include tanks.

The regime is idiotic if it doesn't roll tanks by dawn tomorrow. Assuming - and it may be an unwarranted assumption on my part - that they feel they can trust the regular army.

140 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:11:59am

re: #135 Nevergiveup

;)

141 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:12:01am

re: #128 tfc3rid

Is this what George W. Bush was trying to help make happen for the last 8 years?

Not at all. But if the Iranians were looking to their west for the last 8 years they would now be seeing a nation that has had several true free and open eklections, purple fingers and all. Perhaps the Iranians took notice!

142 pingjockey  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:12:03am

re: #136 Walter L. Newton
Mwahahahaha!

143 pink freud  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:12:05am

re: #123 DisturbedEma

Again, dear leader CALLED to those around the world to "unclench the fist" here it is, and we wait for the plan. . .

There is no plan.

144 redstateredneck  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:12:15am

re: #133 Sharmuta

Interesting- I looked at the picture linked there too, and there were more than just youths in the street. Middle aged men and women in the photo too.

I noticed that too. Several older peeps.

145 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:12:24am

re: #135 Nevergiveup

I had to look outside and see if there was an eclipse or something, since I agree with ya.

Weird feeling, isn't it?

146 itellu3times  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:12:29am

Everyone, remember the Taliban's big selling point - Chaos, or us.

All this chaos may only strengthen the mullah's case to rule.

147 tfc3rid  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:12:50am

Will this be a revolution? Or will this turn into Tienanmen (sp?) Square?

148 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:12:52am

re: #112 reine.de.tout

I didn't, Hon- I just got here, but I'm watching the video Charles posted, and it looks to me to be a river of people in the streets. It's amazing and inspiring. I'm filled with awe. I haven't felt like this since Beijing- and I sure as hell pray we don't see the same ending this time.

(I'll go find your link, tho)

149 Last Mohican  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:13:01am

re: #130 FurryOldGuyJeans

CNN, MSNBC, and FNC not a word about Iran.

It's the headline story on CNN.com.

150 CommonCents  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:13:10am

re: #132 JohnnyReb

Some will try to paint him a hypocrite. Why bother, the artist has his own brush.

151 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:13:12am

re: #137 tfc3rid

Very sad. This is a HUGE story...

Bigger than the Castillo story?
/

152 Pvt Bin Jammin  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:13:15am

re: #133 Sharmuta

Interesting- I looked at the picture linked there too, and there were more than just youths in the street. Middle aged men and women in the photo too.

I hope that by marching to the Khameni House it doesn't mean they will suck up to the mullahs.

153 redstateredneck  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:13:28am

re: #137 tfc3rid

Very sad. This is a HUGE story...

But they'll suspend everything for a fricken car chase.
Unbelievable.

154 tfc3rid  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:13:35am

re: #141 sattv4u2

Not at all. But if the Iranians were looking to their west for the last 8 years they would now be seeing a nation that has had several true free and open eklections, purple fingers and all. Perhaps the Iranians took notice!

But some people (myself included) always held the belief that what happened in Iraq was meant as a sign for the Iranian people...

155 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:13:44am

re: #103 JohnnyReb

I honestly can see the regular army refusing to obey orders in this mess. After all they would be firing at their own families and friends. I predict that the government will keep them out of the picture and use the revolutionary guard dudes only. And there are not enough of those guys to cover all of the major population centers adequately IIRC.

If they only use the Revolutionary Guards, they will lose.

156 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:13:51am

re: #142 pingjockey

Mwahahahaha!

I was taking a little liberty with date, that would have been a 100 years earlier, but, I think my point was made.

157 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:13:53am

re: #102 Sharmuta

Winston's not the only to say that. From the looks of it- most of Tehran is on the streets, against the regime, and other cities are protesting too. Others have said- the genie is out of the bottle, and it's not going back it.

That was said during Tienanmen. I don't know.

158 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:13:56am

re: #130 FurryOldGuyJeans

CNN, MSNBC, and FNC not a word about Iran.

If most of the "reports" are coming from twitterers, then these folks don't have any film or anything to use and probably feel like they can't do much.

But they really OUGHT to be giving it some coverage. I mean, really. Historical events taking place here (whatever the final outcome).

159 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:14:14am

re: #137 tfc3rid

Very sad. This is a HUGE story...

They are all too busy fellating Obama.

The markets are down, oil is down, the dollar is up, Iran is exploding, and all the news channels talk about is Oprah shiny things crap.

160 tfc3rid  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:14:16am

re: #151 Nevergiveup

Bigger than the Castillo story?
/

I need a new DVR remote...

161 Flyers1974  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:14:17am

re: #124 Killgore Trout

Well, the conservative line seems to be that Obama is remaining silent because of his narcissism.

162 Wendya  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:14:26am

re: #139 Dianna

The regime is idiotic if it doesn't roll tanks by dawn tomorrow. Assuming - and it may be an unwarranted assumption on my part - that they feel they can trust the regular army.

I wonder if they will depend on the "voluntary militia" to beat down protesters so they can claim it's the "will of the people".

163 pingjockey  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:14:31am

re: #156 Walter L. Newton
It was!

164 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:14:38am

re: #106 Nevergiveup

20:49 Ahmadinejad: The West is pushing Mousavi to overthrow my government (Ch. 10)

Is that a warning to Mousavi from the powers that be?

Yes.

165 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:14:44am

re: #160 tfc3rid

I need a new DVR remote...

I never saw that before. You?

166 IslandLibertarian  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:14:53am

Mullahs OUT OF IRAN!

God help Iran!

167 DisturbedEma  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:15:03am

re: #143 pink freud

There is no plan.

As I suspected, but maybe I am wrong; I just was thinking that if Obama is bringing change. . .and offers help to those in need of change, and then, people take to the streets for change. . .is he not obligated to help that which he may have started? He is the 1. . .//

168 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:15:13am

re: #147 tfc3rid

Will this be a revolution? Or will this turn into Tienanmen (sp?) Square?

depends on the worlds (read US) reaction

The world didn't get outraged about China in 1989 becasue we didn't "see" the chaos until after the gov't had it squelched

This time, it's live and in color and in real time

169 tfc3rid  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:15:22am

re: #159 FurryOldGuyJeans

They are all too busy fellating Obama.

The markets are down, oil is down, the dollar is up, Iran is exploding, and all the news channels talk about is Oprah shiny things crap.

Nah... They are all aglow over His speech (orders) to the AMA regarding nationalizing healthcare... Talk about tone-deaf...

170 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:15:27am

re: #149 Last Mohican

It's the headline story on CNN.com.

Not a word on the broadcast news, though.

171 yma o hyd  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:15:35am

re: #116 subsailor68

Hi yma! Hope you're doing well!

I watched Prime Minister's Question Time last night (repeat on our CSPAN network here). It was pretty depressing. All Brown could seem to say - regardless of comments or questions from either the Conservatives or the LibDems - was how the Conservatives want to cut spending and put people in misery, while he was pledged to more spending. Every question.

It was a bit depressing.

Hiya!

Yep - depressing, but the whole of the print meejah have now blown the whistle on Gord's incredibly stupid attitude, everybody knows there will have to be cuts in spending, and the numbers used by the Tories are from the NuLab government itself.
Major change in attitude here - even the LLL are turning against Gord and NuLab.

172 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:15:38am

re: #123 DisturbedEma

Again, dear leader CALLED to those around the world to "unclench the fist" here it is, and we wait for the plan. . .

I don't think he quite imagined it looking like this, somehow.

173 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:15:38am

re: #161 Flyers1974

I've also seen a lot of stupid comments about how he loves the oppressive mullahs.

174 pink freud  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:15:41am

re: #159 FurryOldGuyJeans

They are all too busy fellating Obama.

The markets are down, oil is down, the dollar is up, Iran is exploding, and all the news channels talk about is Oprah shiny things crap.

Tits. Hog.

175 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:15:47am

re: #157 SanFranciscoZionist

That was said during Tienanmen. I don't know.

not so,, see my 168

176 livefreeor die  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:15:47am

re: #136 Walter L. Newton

No, he would have been at the Most Holy and Undivided Trinity College of Cambridge arguing with Sir Isaac Newton over the usage of the word "neener."

"Oh, grow-up, Newton."

177 Racer X  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:16:06am

The mullahs will not go down easily. Expect far greater bloodshed. If the West takes action it will only enrage the mullahs further and give them an outside target. Keeping the focal point inside Iran will encourage those on the fence to side with the Iranian youth.

178 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:16:16am

re: #89 Dianna

The regime hasn't deployed more than some riot police and street thugs. If the protests keep growing, they're going to have to do more than that.

There is no guarantee the regime can get the army to move against their friends and relations. And, if the protests move beyond Tehran? Do they have anything to control the whole country?

This could get very, very interesting.

I just made a donation to Winston06 and asked about that.
What if things get so bloody that the IRGC rolls its tanks?
Might the regular Army come in on the side of the people?

179 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:16:24am

re: #133 Sharmuta

Interesting- I looked at the picture linked there too, and there were more than just youths in the street. Middle aged men and women in the photo too.

That street is packed to the gills. There are people of all ages there, men and women. There are a few signs in English, but most appear to be in Arabic or Farsi.

180 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:16:32am

re: #157 SanFranciscoZionist

The problem with Tienanmen was that they were in the Square. Easy to pin them in. These are the open streets. Maybe we'll avoid a repeat of the massacre from 20 years ago. God willing....

181 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:16:36am

re: #158 reine.de.tout

If most of the "reports" are coming from twitterers, then these folks don't have any film or anything to use and probably feel like they can't do much.

But they really OUGHT to be giving it some coverage. I mean, really. Historical events taking place here (whatever the final outcome).

Not even a ticker blurb at the bottom of the screen, it is shiny things crap to complement the bullshit they showing.

182 pink freud  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:16:42am

re: #161 Flyers1974

Well, the conservative line seems to be that Obama is remaining silent because of his narcissism.

Shouldn't you be over at Huffpo or Kos?

183 DisturbedEma  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:16:43am

re: #161 Flyers1974

Well, the conservative line seems to be that Obama is remaining silent because of his narcissism.

I believe it is due to his cluelessness and his lack of moral strength- he is waiting to see who wins who he believes is right

184 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:16:45am

Heh.
This tweet a few hours ago from Change_For_Iran features one of our very own:

State TV right now: rally is illegal and Police will use iron fist against law breakers

185 subsailor68  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:17:03am

I guess this is a question for Winston, or anyone here with more knowledge about this situation than I have.

If the Revolutionary Guards begin/continue to open fire on folks, is there someone (a general, or group of generals) who might order the regular army to step in and disarm the Revolutionary Guards?

186 yma o hyd  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:17:31am

re: #130 FurryOldGuyJeans

CNN, MSNBC, and FNC not a word about Iran.

The Beeb is reporting - but playing it down quite a bit ...

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

187 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:17:39am

There are TWO "armed forces" in Iran. TWO "armies".

188 Pvt Bin Jammin  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:17:50am

re: #170 FurryOldGuyJeans

Not a word on the broadcast news, though.

I just flipped on the TV for the local news. ABC had something about it but they were only showing scenes from very orderly protesters.

189 redstateredneck  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:18:09am

re: #184 reine.de.tout

Heh.
This tweet a few hours ago from Change_For_Iran features one of our very own:

State TV right now: rally is illegal and Police will use iron fist against law breakers

Iron Fist ain't gonna side with the popo!

190 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:18:12am

re: #161 Flyers1974

Just fucking piss off.

191 turn  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:18:14am

re: #140 Killgore Trout

;)

That was a really good observation KT, dinnerjacket would love to pin this on the west. Makes sense, we need a measured and timely response.

192 DisturbedEma  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:18:24am

re: #172 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't think he quite imagined it looking like this, somehow.

No, it was supposed to be like camp, those fists would unclench and start waving in the air to strains of Kumbayaa

193 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:18:29am

re: #185 subsailor68

I guess this is a question for Winston, or anyone here with more knowledge about this situation than I have.

If the Revolutionary Guards begin/continue to open fire on folks, is there someone (a general, or group of generals) who might order the regular army to step in and disarm the Revolutionary Guards?

Precisely.

194 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:18:29am

Do not get me wrong: I hope beyond hope that this may turn into a kind of avalanche revolution. That if the regular army is called in they will refuse to shoot at kids and women. That someone has a strategy and tactic beyond tweeting and offering themselves as targets for the Basij. That a radio or teevee station or two get turned. That things can be sabotaged. That a few mullahs get stripped and run naked through the streets of Qom. That truth and justice may prevail.

All of these things are now in the hands of the Iranians themselves. If you want to watch the opposition crumble, run to the Senate floor, the State Department podium, the White House lawn, and scream at the top of your lungs that the would-be revolutionaries (at this point, sadly, they're still just protesters) are our guys and we support them with our ever-effective empty platitudes and sternly worded memos. Watch in horror as people who might support the uprising turn on the protesters as agents of the West. Watch the army choose sides in favor of a nation they see as threatened from outside. Watch the mullahs go from scared beasts to bared teeth and authorize the use of any and all deadly force.

Then pat yourselves on the back for having made our leaders righteously spout off, writing checks with their mouths that their asses can't cash.

Or. Wait and see if the momentum can sustain itself, and choose your moment for jumping in when it may stand a chance of doing any good at all.

195 Racer X  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:18:30am

re: #173 Killgore Trout

I've also seen a lot of stupid comments about how he loves the oppressive mullahs.

You need a better filter. I see stupid comments all the time. They get filtered out.

196 American Soldier  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:18:39am

re: #127 Last Mohican

Well, I admit that nobody ever went broke by overestimating the capacity of any Muslim group to hate Jews.

However, FWIW, an Iranian friend of mine tells me that some Iranians remember the biblical story detailing how, around 536 BC, the Persian king Cyrus conquered Jerusalem from the Babylonians, who had destroyed the city and burned down the Jewish temple. Cyrus issued a proclamation allowing the Jews to return and rebuild their temple. Apparently, some Iranians are now hoping that the Jews will return the favor, and somehow come to liberate their own country from the grip of the mullahs.

That would be a return to 1978. Need a time machine. Don't think that's happening. It would take a miracle to topple the ayatollahs. Any Israeli intervention of any sort would only rile up the neighborhood.

197 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:18:40am

re: #127 Last Mohican

Well, I admit that nobody ever went broke by overestimating the capacity of any Muslim group to hate Jews.

However, FWIW, an Iranian friend of mine tells me that some Iranians remember the biblical story detailing how, around 536 BC, the Persian king Cyrus conquered Jerusalem from the Babylonians, who had destroyed the city and burned down the Jewish temple. Cyrus issued a proclamation allowing the Jews to return and rebuild their temple. Apparently, some Iranians are now hoping that the Jews will return the favor, and somehow come to liberate their own country from the grip of the mullahs.

I am very dubious that an improved relationship between Israel and Iran can be brokered over the tomb of Cyrus the Great, Great though he was. And Israel would have to be out of their minds to venture a military intervention over this situation.

198 livefreeor die  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:18:47am

re: #176 livefreeor die

"Oh, grow-up, Newton."

Whoops-let me clarify-I was referring to Sir Issac, not Walter L...
We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

199 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:18:56am

While this is reminiscent of Tienanmen- the key difference is that in Beijing the protesters put themselves in a space that could be easily controlled. The Iranians are in the open streets, where they will be able to flee much easier if they need to.

200 brookly red  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:18:58am

I think/heard that the regular army in Iran is mostly conscripts, does anyone know for sure?

201 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:19:00am

re: #110 FurryOldGuyJeans

Piss off.

No.

202 brucee  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:19:04am

Some are skeptical if a regime change could happen.

Just a historical note: When Khomeini's plane landed in Tehran 3 decades ago, everyone estimated one to two years before Shah falls. It happened in 10 days.

So, the possibility is there.

203 pingjockey  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:19:06am

re: #187 pre-Boomer Marine brat
Is the IIRG as well armed or better armed than the regular army? If the regular army takes a hand against the mad mullahs would it boil down to a civil war?

204 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:19:12am

re: #184 reine.de.tout

I found your pictures- those were incredible.

205 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:19:18am

From StopAhmadi:
NEWS: Plainclothed snipers were seen shooting from rooftops around Azadi Sq. #Iranelection


From IranElection09:
RT @abzole 7 ppl killed and many more injured in azadi sq :(( #iranelection

RT: @nima68: RT: @mehran751: 4 shooted right in front of my eyes, i think 3 are dead #iranelection

206 Kronocide  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:19:33am

Huffpo: Iran is front/top page news with all kinds of links.
DKos: nothing till 60% down the page, just an article.

Hmm.....

207 Last Mohican  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:19:35am

re: #161 Flyers1974

Well, the conservative line seems to be that Obama is remaining silent because of his narcissism.

Is it? That's certainly not the consensus on LGF.

208 yma o hyd  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:19:38am

re: #139 Dianna

The regime is idiotic if it doesn't roll tanks by dawn tomorrow. Assuming - and it may be an unwarranted assumption on my part - that they feel they can trust the regular army.

Thats why I have this ghastly memory of Hungary 1956 re-playing in my memory, twitter and new technology notwithstanding ...

I pray and hope I'm wrong,.

209 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:19:53am

re: #194 Cato the Elder

Do not get me wrong: I hope beyond hope that this may turn into a kind of avalanche revolution. That if the regular army is called in they will refuse to shoot at kids and women. That someone has a strategy and tactic beyond tweeting and offering themselves as targets for the Basij. That a radio or teevee station or two get turned. That things can be sabotaged. That a few mullahs get stripped and run naked through the streets of Qom. That truth and justice may prevail.

All of these things are now in the hands of the Iranians themselves. If you want to watch the opposition crumble, run to the Senate floor, the State Department podium, the White House lawn, and scream at the top of your lungs that the would-be revolutionaries (at this point, sadly, they're still just protesters) are our guys and we support them with our ever-effective empty platitudes and sternly worded memos. Watch in horror as people who might support the uprising turn on the protesters as agents of the West. Watch the army choose sides in favor of a nation they see as threatened from outside. Watch the mullahs go from scared beasts to bared teeth and authorize the use of any and all deadly force.

Then pat yourselves on the back for having made our leaders righteously spout off, writing checks with their mouths that their asses can't cash.

Or. Wait and see if the momentum can sustain itself, and choose your moment for jumping in when it may stand a chance of doing any good at all.

Or stand up for liberty and scream neener to the mullahs.

210 MarineVet  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:19:55am

Not that this means anything to us here in the "free world" its hard to pick sides in a battle that has its ultimate outcome in the mullah's hands. Mr " I am in a Jihad" Mahmoud Ahmadinejad may be no worse or better than Mir Hossein Mousavi! The Sharia law predominates this culture and only the mullahs **sic** can interpret accordingly. We have the Electoral College in America and they have the blessed supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei........

211 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:20:05am

re: #131 itellu3times

You might want to review British-French relationships, say 1500-1800.

The French did not like Britain, true. But the French did not back the colonies until they saw it was going to profit them. They weren't going to waste time or credibility on an uprising with no chances of success.

212 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:20:14am

re: #180 Sharmuta

The problem with Tienanmen was that they were in the Square. Easy to pin them in. These are the open streets. Maybe we'll avoid a repeat of the massacre from 20 years ago. God willing....

This looks more like the pro-democracy protests after Tienanmen, those we saw in Eastern Europe after the Iron Curtain fell. I hope it has a similar outcome as those protests did.

213 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:20:37am

re: #162 Wendya

I wonder if they will depend on the "voluntary militia" to beat down protesters so they can claim it's the "will of the people".

If that's what they use, the regime will lose.

Pissed off people who know each other will not let thugs back them down, not once they've come out into the street. For one thing, they have to fear their neighbors if they don't stand with them now.

The dynamics of revolution are pretty well known and accounted for.

214 Wendya  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:20:40am

re: #194 Cato the Elder

Watch in horror as people who might support the uprising turn on the protesters as agents of the West.


I'm thinking the majority of people who support the uprising probably don't think the west is the "Great Satan".

215 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:20:43am

If anyone in iran is able to see this board, know that the PEOPLE of America are with you. And also remember this: "if the mullahs are willing to lie and cheat you out of your votes, if they are willing to hire foreign thugs to crack your skulls, and if they are wiling to kill your brothers and sisters just for wanting freedom .... they are also very capable of lying to you about the intentions of the USA, the supposed myth of the Holocaust, and the phony stories of the oppression of palestinians by Israel.

May G-d bless the brave patriots in iran who may be very close to pulling off a miracle!

216 DisturbedEma  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:20:48am

re: #182 pink freud

Shouldn't you be over at Huffpo or Kos?


The liberal line seems to be that dear leader is communing with crystals and moonbeams to get his aura in order before he dazzles the masses with his shiny talk

217 lobo91  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:21:09am

For what it's worth, Fox News just teased a story about the protests coming up after the current commercial break.

218 Racer X  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:21:16am

What would Ronald Reagan do?

219 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:21:23am

re: #188 Pvt Bin Jammin

I just flipped on the TV for the local news. ABC had something about it but they were only showing scenes from very orderly protesters.

Local is not network and therefore national. The network news people are censoring the news once again for us.

220 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:21:36am

re: #205 reine.de.tout

It looks increasingly likely that today is the turning point.

221 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:21:40am

re: #138 soxfan4life

Freedom fom the oppression of the mullahs. While there may be a bit of unrest until their new leader fills the vacuum, it will not be as violent as the last 30 years under the clerics.

Is that what you think will happen, or what you want to happen? Cause I want it to happen too, I just don't know if it's actually in the cards.

222 [deleted]  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:21:49am
223 experiencedtraveller  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:21:59am

I see a few key facts which are subject to evolution:

1. The Iranian Regime is unpopular but not atrophied or moribund. The basij remains an aggressive force.

2. The Iranian Army will not revolt.

3. The popular revolt is centered with the students. For my dollars or tail feathers I want a revolt to come from the farmers or the armed forces.

The smoke will clear tomorrow, the situation will be tense, the economy will get worse but the regime will not be toppled today.

I personally salute those bravely contesting for freedom.

/Until its final dotage, tyranny is tenacious.

224 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:22:20am

re: #220 Killgore Trout

It looks increasingly likely that today is the turning point.

That went thru my head, too.

225 DisturbedEma  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:22:42am

re: #194 Cato the Elder

You are so pompous. . .it IS possible to make a point without insulting people and talking down to them. . .

226 KenJen  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:22:43am

re: #161 Flyers1974

Well, the conservative line seems to be that Obama is remaining silent because of his narcissism.

Obama is remaining silent because he was not prepard for this. He's probably in the Oval office,smoking a cig, trying to think of what to say.

227 Last Mohican  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:22:55am

re: #194 Cato the Elder

I think that's exactly right, and I thank you for putting this in a respectful tone, rather than the abusive tone you chose for your previous comment.

And, FWIW, one of the many reasons why many Iranians hate their government is that it brings in foreigners (i.e. Hizbollah Arabs) to come around and murder any dissenters.

228 Racer X  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:22:59am

re: #222 buzzsawmonkey

It would, however, be nice if the current administration had some sort of plan to assist the protesters-perhaps-turned-revolutionaries in the event of a situation such as this. I have, alas, doubts as to whether this is the case; I suspect that the administration's contingency plans began and ended with Obama's Persian New Year outreach video message directed, supposedly, to the Iranian people.

Obama has, in effect, tied his own hands.

229 DisturbedEma  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:23:07am

re: #218 Racer X

What would Ronald Reagan do?

Hmmm

230 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:23:12am

Photo of beating

231 turn  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:23:36am

re: #205 reine.de.tout

From StopAhmadi:
NEWS: Plainclothed snipers were seen shooting from rooftops around Azadi Sq. #Iranelection


From IranElection09:
RT @abzole 7 ppl killed and many more injured in azadi sq :(( #iranelection

RT: @nima68: RT: @mehran751: 4 shooted right in front of my eyes, i think 3 are dead #iranelection

holy shit, feedback is happening in real time. This is WAY different than what happened in China. As usual the MSM is way behind the blogs and you smart folk.

232 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:23:46am

re: #220 Killgore Trout

It looks increasingly likely that today is the turning point.

"Today" being a relative term. It's already approaching 11 p.m in Tehran

233 DisturbedEma  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:23:51am

re: #227 Last Mohican

I think that's exactly right, and I thank you for putting this in a respectful tone, rather than the abusive tone you chose for your previous comment.

And, FWIW, one of the many reasons why many Iranians hate their government is that it brings in foreigners (i.e. Hizbollah Arabs) to come around and murder any dissenters.

He was STILL a jerk. . .but yeah, patting self on back is a step up from "grow up". . .for some

234 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:23:56am

Ayatollah orders vote probe as Iran riots

Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Khamenei has ordered a probe into the disputed re-election of Ahmadinejad, reversing his earlier decree that the result was fair.The intervention came as Iran faced a third day of protests by reformists, who claimed the election was rigged.

Is this just a move to try to quell the riots, or will they try to reverse the results to regain control of the people?

235 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:23:59am

re: #222 buzzsawmonkey

Intelligence agencies have been gaming this exact situation for decades. I'm sure everything was already in place to provide assistance. It's never going to make the headlines but I'm sure there's a lot of stuff going on.

236 haakondahl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:24:04am

Re-Post:

re: #416 avanti

Any obvious involvement will remind the Iranians of the CIA installed Shaw and be counterproductive. The most that could be done is to remind the Iranian leaders to respect the rights of peaceful protesters and to use restraint. I agree if the revolution fails that the hardliners would use western interference as a excuse to clamp down even harder on the population. If a statement is made, the POTUS's advisers had better parse every word carefully.

A Reagan-esque speech extolling the natural right of all mankind to freedom and respect for the will of the people as expressed through elections.
It would offer succor for the people, while offering no arguable points to the regime.

Please recall that even if the current administration remains silent, it will be blamed; reviled and castigated by the regime because that's the only product they offer. On the other hand, just a SHRED for the people there would go a long way, and the regime can't very well argue with freedom and elections, when they say they are free and that they won the election.

237 Pvt Bin Jammin  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:24:09am

re: #219 FurryOldGuyJeans

Local is not network and therefore national. The network news people are censoring the news once again for us.


Lovely, isn't it. Probably the only reason they showed it on the local channel here is the fact that Los Angeles has a huge Persian community.

238 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:24:15am

From SmileOfCrash:
Mahmoud Ahmadinegad official website is under DoS attacks and seems hacked now [Link: www.ahmadinejad.ir...] #iranelection #iranelection

239 Flyers1974  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:24:19am

re: #108 Sunlight

re: #173 Killgore Trout

I've also seen a lot of stupid comments about how he loves the oppressive mullahs.

There is a possible Iranian revolution happening, and they are completely and utterly hypnotized by Obama. If he is a narcissist, maybe he can't be blamed - Obama is the Alpha and Omega to them.

240 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:24:23am

re: #209 Walter L. Newton

Or stand up for liberty and scream neener to the mullahs.

Just because it makes you, at a distance of 7,000 miles, feel warm and fuzzy and brave to do that doesn't impress the mullahs.

Like standing up for sunshine on a rainy day.

241 pink freud  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:24:23am

re: #216 DisturbedEma

The liberal line seems to be that dear leader is communing with crystals and moonbeams to get his aura in order before he dazzles the masses with his shiny talk

Despite their best efforts here lately, that turd still stinks, don't it?

242 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:24:30am

re: #220 Killgore Trout

It looks increasingly likely that today is the turning point.

I concur. The pictures I saw have all sorts of people in the street, not just students. I see what appear to be a lot of middle class folks also protesting.

243 soxfan4life  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:24:36am

re: #221 SanFranciscoZionist

Is that what you think will happen, or what you want to happen? Cause I want it to happen too, I just don't know if it's actually in the cards.


If the people overthrow the mullahs, there is plenty of good reason for the UN to put a stabilizing force in place while the new Iranian government takes hold, much like what we did in Iraq.

244 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:24:37am

re: #178 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I just made a donation to Winston06 and asked about that.
What if things get so bloody that the IRGC rolls its tanks?
Might the regular Army come in on the side of the people?

That would be extraordinarily interesting. It wouldn't entirely surprise me - I've read enough about tensions between the regulars and IRGC. Further, the IRGC isn't especially professional (from what I've read); it would be like putting NKVD units up against the Red Army, back in the day.

No idea what will happen. I'm not an expert on Iran.

But I know revolution, and this is starting to look...possible.

245 Cygnus  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:24:40am

re: #30 NonNativeTexan

I believe it is about time for President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
to receive a 3:00 AM telephone call.

Via rebel-fired Scud missile.

246 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:25:03am

re: #230 reine.de.tout

Photo of beating

I'm really impressed my the Iranian women. They're tough and tenacious.

247 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:25:05am

rt @iranbaan says ppl in west of #Tehran r out in force & marching #IranElection

248 jcm  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:25:15am

re: #177 Racer X

The mullahs will not go down easily. Expect far greater bloodshed. If the West takes action it will only enrage the mullahs further and give them an outside target. Keeping the focal point inside Iran will encourage those on the fence to side with the Iranian youth.

Freedom costs, it's value is measured in blood.
We've expended 1,400,000 precious irreplaceable lives to gain and keep ours.

We should never, ever forget that.

Nor should we diminish or discount anyone who stands, and puts their lives up as the price for their freedom.

Those of us who have our freedom should never, ever sit back and tell those without it's too hard, too costly. When we do we say Freedom is not worth it.

249 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:25:20am

re: #246 Killgore Trout

the free Iran belongs to its women

250 redstateredneck  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:25:25am

re: #218 Racer X

What would Ronald Reagan do say?

"We welcome change and openness; for we believe that freedom and security go together, that the advance of human liberty can only strengthen the cause of world peace."

251 Land Shark  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:25:29am

I tell you what, those people protesting in Tehran have a lot of guts. I'm sure they know the "authorities" are not restricted in what they can do like they would be in a Western country, and are expecting a strong reaction from them. I'm humbled by their courage.

You think the anarchists and other assholes who love to riot in the West whenever the G8 meet would have the same courage the Iranians are displaying in the face of a true totalitarian regime? Of course not, those cowards would hide in the parents' basements shaking in fear.

252 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:25:39am

re: #212 Honorary Yooper

This looks more like the pro-democracy protests after Tienanmen, those we saw in Eastern Europe after the Iron Curtain fell. I hope it has a similar outcome as those protests did.

Good point- this reminds me more of Poland than Tianenmen.

253 scottishbuzzsaw  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:25:46am

re: #230 reine.de.tout

Photo of beating

May their courage not fail...

254 [deleted]  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:25:46am
255 Sunlight  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:25:50am

re: #222 buzzsawmonkey

It would, however, be nice if the current administration had some sort of plan to assist the protesters-perhaps-turned-revolutionaries in the event of a situation such as this. I have, alas, doubts as to whether this is the case; I suspect that the administration's contingency plans began and ended with Obama's Persian New Year outreach video message directed, supposedly, to the Iranian people.

But do you want either of the people on the table right now?

256 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:25:57am

FNC is finally running a story about the events in Iran; and I was mistaken about no ticker on the news channels, CNN is having a couple of non-informative blurbs indicating something is happening in Iran.

257 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:26:00am

re: #246 Killgore Trout

I'm really impressed my the Iranian women. They're tough and tenacious.

Well, I was just about to post this one, with the same thought.
The women are in there too.

258 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:26:10am

re: #203 pingjockey

Is the IIRG as well armed or better armed than the regular army? If the regular army takes a hand against the mad mullahs would it boil down to a civil war?

[1] I don't know about current comparative armaments, but research done a couple of years ago showed them generally neck and neck. Each has its own divisional structures, etc, with infantry, armor, engineers, etc, etc. See globalsecurity.org.

[2] damned straight.

Further FYI, ShortShit has been replacing senior Artesh commanders with his own cronies from the IRGC. What'd have to happen is a revolt within the ranks of the field grade officers. I've read that they're fundamentally pissed over losing their own commanders. Don't know how widespread that is, or "how it would translate".

259 Equable  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:26:16am

If the reports at:

[Link: search.twitter.com...]

... are accurate, God help these people.

260 turn  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:26:26am

re: #215 _RememberTonyC

If anyone in iran is able to see this board, know that the PEOPLE of America are with you. And also remember this: "if the mullahs are willing to lie and cheat you out of your votes, if they are willing to hire foreign thugs to crack your skulls, and if they are wiling to kill your brothers and sisters just for wanting freedom .... they are also very capable of lying to you about the intentions of the USA, the supposed myth of the Holocaust, and the phony stories of the oppression of palestinians by Israel.

May G-d bless the brave patriots in iran who may be very close to pulling off a miracle!

Very nicely said tony!

261 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:26:27am

re: #249 winston06

the free Iran belongs to its women


Maybe next year I can go visit and meet them.

262 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:26:41am

re: #240 Cato the Elder

Just because it makes you, at a distance of 7,000 miles, feel warm and fuzzy and brave to do that doesn't impress the mullahs.

Like standing up for sunshine on a rainy day.

Cato, lighten up, it was a little black humor, take a deep breath, I'm not your enemy (most of the time).

263 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:26:48am

re: #184 reine.de.tout

Heh.
This tweet a few hours ago from Change_For_Iran features one of our very own:

State TV right now: rally is illegal and Police will use iron fist against law breakers

That was a remarkably stupid thing for the regime to have said.

264 Kronocide  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:26:54am

re: #194 Cato the Elder

All of these things are now in the hands of the Iranians themselves. If you want to watch the opposition crumble, run to the Senate floor, the State Department podium, the White House lawn, and scream at the top of your lungs that the would-be revolutionaries (at this point, sadly, they're still just protesters) are our guys and we support them with our ever-effective empty platitudes and sternly worded memos. Watch in horror as people who might support the uprising turn on the protesters as agents of the West. Watch the army choose sides in favor of a nation they see as threatened from outside. Watch the mullahs go from scared beasts to bared teeth and authorize the use of any and all deadly force.

Then pat yourselves on the back for having made our leaders righteously spout off, writing checks with their mouths that their asses can't cash.

Or. Wait and see if the momentum can sustain itself, and choose your moment for jumping in when it may stand a chance of doing any good at all.

Are you postulating that this is what the current administration is doing?

265 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:27:02am

re: #261 Killgore Trout

Me too. been 5 yrs since I left it

266 FrogMarch  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:27:07am
eyewitness account of the clashes between protesters and the Iranian Basiji: Hatred, chaos and savage beatings in Tehran.

Just like George Bush!

/CBS/Obama dry-hump media

267 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:27:08am

re: #218 Racer X

What would Ronald Reagan do?

Sell arms to the mullahs to finance a splendid little war in Central America?

268 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:27:16am

re: #257 reine.de.tout

They are truly amazing.

269 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:27:18am

re: #205 reine.de.tout

From StopAhmadi:
NEWS: Plainclothed snipers were seen shooting from rooftops around Azadi Sq. #Iranelection


From IranElection09:
RT @abzole 7 ppl killed and many more injured in azadi sq :(( #iranelection

RT: @nima68: RT: @mehran751: 4 shooted right in front of my eyes, i think 3 are dead #iranelection

Plainclothes probably means the Basij, rather than the police.

270 yma o hyd  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:27:19am

re: #231 turn

holy shit, feedback is happening in real time. This is WAY different than what happened in China. As usual the MSM is way behind the blogs and you smart folk.

It looks as if the twitters are coming through, regardless of what the Iranian government is trying to do to stop them.
Twitters are now coming in fats again.

271 [deleted]  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:27:23am
272 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:27:24am

re: #217 lobo91

For what it's worth, Fox News just teased a story about the protests coming up after the current commercial break.

Never let major world events slip past without working your ratings. *spit*

273 pingjockey  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:27:32am

re: #258 pre-Boomer Marine brat
Most coups, IIRC are perpetrated by field grade officers. Colonels and below.

274 subsailor68  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:27:33am

re: #246 Killgore Trout

I'm really impressed my the Iranian women. They're tough and tenacious.

Hi Killgore! Yes they are. And absolutely beautiful. (I knew quite a few when I lived in LA, and they were all beautiful, intelligent, resourceful, and kind.)

275 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:27:38am

re: #220 Killgore Trout

It looks increasingly likely that today is the turning point.

I would watch for tonight and what the regime does.

276 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:27:38am

re: #243 soxfan4life

If the people overthrow the mullahs, there is plenty of good reason for the UN to put a stabilizing force in place while the new Iranian government takes hold, much like what we did in Iraq.

Let's see what happens then! And God be with these folks...

277 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:27:38am

re: #261 Killgore Trout

Maybe next year I can go visit and meet them.

They all look absolutely gorgeous to me.
Just gorgeous.
The men, too.

278 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:27:45am

re: #256 FurryOldGuyJeans

FNC is finally running a story about the events in Iran; and I was mistaken about no ticker on the news channels, CNN is having a couple of non-informative blurbs indicating something is happening in Iran.

All of the MSM web sites have been running info and articles all day.

279 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:28:03am

re: #261 Killgore Trout

Maybe next year I can go visit and meet them.

Or click on the ad that shows up top right here and have one come meet you !

280 Racer X  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:28:05am

re: #235 Killgore Trout

Intelligence agencies have been gaming this exact situation for decades. I'm sure everything was already in place to provide assistance. It's never going to make the headlines but I'm sure there's a lot of stuff going on.

Man, we can only hope. American assistance has to be clandestine.

281 IslandLibertarian  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:28:16am

re: #226 KenJen

Yes, that's the answer. "0" needs to give another speech!
Works for every crisis that comes along.
Why just look at the unemployment situation, great speech.
The mortgage crisis? What a speech!
Failing auto industry? Speech with horsepower!
Health care? Speech cured all that ails me!

/and the oceans stopped rising, and the climate began to cool..........

282 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:28:28am

re: #275 Dianna

I would watch for tonight and what the regime does.

It is already"tonight" there. it's approching 11 p.m.

283 alegrias  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:28:29am

Anyone know what IRAQ next door is saying?
Iraq's president lived in Iran for years during Saddam's tyranny.

Speak up, IraQ! You're right next door.

284 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:28:31am

rt @iranbaan says ppl have engaged anti-riot police in major cities of Iran #tehran #IranElection

285 jcm  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:28:34am

re: #194 Cato the Elder

The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse......

286 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:28:56am

re: #270 yma o hyd

It looks as if the twitters are coming through, regardless of what the Iranian government is trying to do to stop them.
Twitters are now coming in fats again.

FATS?
Mine are coming in FASTer. But not FATTer.
LOL
sorry
:-)

287 lawhawk  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:29:00am

re: #194 Cato the Elder

Supporting the protesters right to carry out peaceful demonstrations isn't asking too much. Asking for the government to show restraint against attacking unarmed demonstrators is appropriate without showing that the Administration backs the protesters.

There are things that can be said short of open support of the protesters, giving the Administration the flexibility to act based on events as they unfold literally by the minute. The concern about saying anything has frozen the Administration into silence after that initial flurry of ill-begotten comments about working with the Ahmadinejad government.

For an Administration that is supposed to have a way with words, their silence is deafening.

Heck, you can get Gibbs to come up to the podium to make a statement talking about the US respect for human rights and the free and fair elections and that the Iranian response to demonstrations over questions with violence undermines their legitimacy. It's a statement of fact, but by phrasing it that way, it leaves the door open to the fact that Ahmadinejad could have indeed been the winner, Mousavi could have been the winner, and still castigates the regime for the violent crackdown against protesters who see the regime's actions since the election results announcements as illegitimate.

Add to that a statement that we support liberty and freedom against all unjust regimes around the world.

288 haakondahl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:29:10am

I am now following Winston80's updates on my CELLPHONE IN AFGHANISTAN.

This is amazing. ht tp :// twitter.com / Winston80

no spaces.

I clicked on one of his links in a tweet and discovered that he is TRANSLATING tweets on the fly--this is an amazingly valuable service.

Winston, thank you. LGF has a lot of members, and a huge read-only base--you are providing a truly valuable service.

Thank you.

289 soxfan4life  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:29:20am

re: #283 alegrias

Anyone know what IRAQ next door is saying?
Iraq's president lived in Iran for years during Saddam's tyranny.

Speak up, IraQ! You're right next door.


Why would he want to cause more unrest in his own country?

290 tfc3rid  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:29:22am

re: #165 Nevergiveup

I never saw that before. You?

Never...

291 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:29:27am

re: #283 alegrias

Anyone know what IRAQ next door is saying?
Iraq's president lived in Iran for years during Saddam's tyranny.

Speak up, IraQ! You're right next door.

1st things 1st

When you have rats in your own house, you don't complain about the rodents next door

292 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:29:32am

re: #275 Dianna

I would watch for tonight and what the regime does.

I think it is "tonight" over there.

293 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:29:46am

re: #239 Flyers1974

re: #173 Killgore Trout

There is a possible Iranian revolution happening, and they are completely and utterly hypnotized by Obama. If he is a narcissist, maybe he can't be blamed - Obama is the Alpha and Omega to them.

Yup, the FMSM sure is mesmerized by Obama.

294 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:29:55am

re: #267 Cato the Elder

Sell arms to the mullahs to finance a splendid little war in Central America?

Of course, he also managed to bring down the most murderous political system ever devised by man, but never mind that.

295 Kragar  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:30:02am

re: #246 Killgore Trout

I'm really impressed my the Iranian women. They're tough and tenacious.

It takes 6+ men to beat a woman. So manly of them. What scum.

296 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:30:05am

re: #257 reine.de.tout

Well, I was just about to post this one, with the same thought.
The women are in there too.

God love them! You GO, Ladies!

297 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:30:13am

re: #292 reine.de.tout

I think it is "tonight" over there.

11 p.m. as we speak

298 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:30:21am

re: #288 haakondahl

no prob. feel free to donate to my coffee fund. It can keep me awake

299 turn  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:30:23am

re: #222 buzzsawmonkey

It would, however, be nice if the current administration had some sort of plan to assist the protesters-perhaps-turned-revolutionaries in the event of a situation such as this. I have, alas, doubts as to whether this is the case; I suspect that the administration's contingency plans began and ended with Obama's Persian New Year outreach video message directed, supposedly, to the Iranian people.

If there is a revolution and a toppling of the Mullahs you can be damn sure the MSM and the left will give O the credit. I wish Bush was in office right now, he would actually have a contingency plan for this situation.

300 Flyers1974  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:30:27am

re: #226 KenJen

Obama is remaining silent because he was not prepard for this. He's probably in the Oval office,smoking a cig, trying to think of what to say.

What is there to be prepared for, honestly? He could have had a speech handed to him anytime he wanted by one of the many speechwriters available to every president. Seriously, I think this is the very ODS mentioned on this very site. Obama isn't failing to make a simple easy statement because he is unprepared.

301 jcm  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:30:40am

re: #267 Cato the Elder

Sell arms to the mullahs to finance a splendid little war in Central America?

Tough words from a coward in his basement.

302 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:30:41am
303 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:30:43am

re: #295 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

that video has made me fucking angry....

304 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:30:49am

re: #278 Walter L. Newton

All of the MSM web sites have been running info and articles all day.

The websites are not broadcast news outlets, and that is what I am talking about.

305 Equable  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:30:50am

The image postings are coming so fast, but I managed to nab this URL. Here ya go Killgore!

[Link: twitpic.com...]

306 Kenneth  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:30:51am

re: #243 soxfan4life

If the people overthrow the mullahs, there is plenty of good reason for the UN to put a stabilizing force in place while the new Iranian government takes hold, much like what we did in Iraq.

The UN won't do anything constructive or helpful. The UN has no troops of their own. Any such troops must be donated from member states. The member states either cannot or will not provide the troops necessary.

307 right_on_target  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:30:52am

re: #249 winston06

the free Iran belongs to its women

_____________________________________

From one of the TWEETS:
"On several occasions I saw female Moussavi supporters plead with their male counterparts not to run away."

308 pink freud  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:30:57am

re: #287 lawhawk

Very well spoken.

309 Sunlight  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:31:04am

re: #271 buzzsawmonkey

Are you asking whether I support Ahmedinejad or his equally-mullah-vetted opponent?

No.

So why do you want our govt to say anything if the protesters are calling for that Mousavi guy? He also has nuking Israel on his to-do list and, therefore, if the protesters are out yelling for him, I don't want our govt to say anything in support of Mousavi. If they want to speak out for a new govt minus the mullahs in charge, then ok, but I don't think Obama is against having the mullahs in charge.

310 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:31:16am

re: #296 Sharmuta

God love them! You GO, Ladies!

I'm quite sure that they do not have any "pent up" anger.
/
God (don't) help those men.

311 rightside  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:31:16am

Oh my! Can you all imagine what a free Iran would do for stability in the region? The implications are staggering. May those who yearn for freedom, find it. Let those who perish in that fight, not die in vain.

Let freedom ring in Iran too.

312 Racer X  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:31:22am

re: #294 Occasional Reader

Of course, he also managed to bring down the most murderous political system ever devised by man, but never mind that.

The left only focus on the bad. There is never any good in the world. Never.

313 brucee  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:31:33am

McCain on Fox: It's really a sham that they pulled off. I hope we will Act... sanctions on oil ...

314 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:31:40am

re: #283 alegrias

Anyone know what IRAQ next door is saying?
Iraq's president lived in Iran for years during Saddam's tyranny.

Speak up, IraQ! You're right next door.

I don't know about Iraq, but I was disgusted to see that Hamid Karzai - who would have been dead long ago at the hands of the monsters if it were not for the continual support of US armed forces - was among the Muslim world leaders congratulating ShortShit on his "election" "victory".

315 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:31:45am

re: #223 experiencedtraveller

I see a few key facts which are subject to evolution:

1. The Iranian Regime is unpopular but not atrophied or moribund. The basij remains an aggressive force.

2. The Iranian Army will not revolt.

3. The popular revolt is centered with the students. For my dollars or tail feathers I want a revolt to come from the farmers or the armed forces.

The smoke will clear tomorrow, the situation will be tense, the economy will get worse but the regime will not be toppled today.

I personally salute those bravely contesting for freedom.

/Until its final dotage, tyranny is tenacious.

Point two remains unexamined.

Point three isn't looking supported, exactly.

We shall see.

316 Kobyashi Maru  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:31:49am

Support the Persian students, they are putting their lives on the line for freedom!

317 pingjockey  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:31:51am

re: #299 turn
Believe me, there is a plan. The Pentagon has plans for everything, and the CIA. Whether or not that plan is implemented is another thing.

318 Silvergirl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:31:59am

Just looked at Fox, CNN, et al where it's suddenly "breaking" and developing" news.

319 haakondahl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:32:01am

re: #255 Sunlight

But do you want either of the people on the table right now?


Youu should change your nic to Fucking Gloom. Give you Patrick Henry or Give you Death?

320 alegrias  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:32:05am

re: #272 Sharmuta

Never let major world events slip past without working your ratings. *spit*

* * * *
Many think Pres. Obama threatening the evil regime of US healthcare IS a MAJOR WORLD EVENT.

Fox News has to appeal to Obamabot idiots too.

321 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:32:11am

re: #311 rightside

Oh my! Can you all imagine what a free Iran would do for stability in the region? The implications are staggering. May those who yearn for freedom, find it. Let those who perish in that fight, not die in vain.

Let freedom ring in Iran too.

Been drinking have we?

322 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:32:15am

re: #260 turn

Very nicely said tony!

Thank you, Turn

323 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:32:22am

re: #308 pink freud

Well. It is Lawhawk.

324 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:32:29am

re: #307 right_on_target

I am on the verge of tears... Fucking white house is silent

325 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:32:31am

From TehranBureau:

From Isfahan: the police that were overwhelmed by the protestors came back...this time around 300...fully loaded and prepared,

they shot tear gas into the crowds followed by rubber bullets, the bullets and batons were aimed for the faces in order to exert the maximum

326 soxfan4life  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:32:48am

re: #300 Flyers1974

What is there to be prepared for, honestly? He could have had a speech handed to him anytime he wanted by one of the many speechwriters available to every president. Seriously, I think this is the very ODS mentioned on this very site. Obama isn't failing to make a simple easy statement because he is unprepared.


One Ronald Wilson Reagan would have already made a speech declaring America's support for free people wanting a democracy. Of course he never needed a public opinion poll to tell him what was right or wrong.

327 Kobyashi Maru  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:32:49am

Whatever happened to HR 362 from the last Congress to block imports of refined petroleum to iran?

328 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:32:51am

re: #298 winston06

Winston,

Caffeine on the way via PayPal as of about 10 minutes ago.

Appended a question to it,

329 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:33:02am

re: #304 FurryOldGuyJeans

The websites are not broadcast news outlets, and that is what I am talking about.

Lighten up, I know that, I was just adding some info to the discussion of where coverage is available.

330 pink freud  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:33:09am

re: #300 Flyers1974

What is there to be prepared for, honestly? He could have had a speech handed to him anytime he wanted by one of the many speechwriters available to every president. Seriously, I think this is the very ODS mentioned on this very site. Obama isn't failing to make a simple easy statement because he is unprepared.

You now speak for 0bama? Wow.

331 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:33:18am

re: #311 rightside

Oh my! Can you all imagine what a free Iran would do for stability in the region? The implications are staggering. May those who yearn for freedom, find it. Let those who perish in that fight, not die in vain.

Let freedom ring in Iran too.

A free Iran would stabilize TWO countries in one fell swoop.

332 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:33:21am

re: #294 Occasional Reader

Of course, he also managed to bring down the most murderous political system ever devised by man, but never mind that.

And he did it single-handed, too. No help from the accrued work of every other American president since the advent of the cold war. No factoring in the Soviet Union's gradual collapse under its own weight. No, the mighty Ronald took five smooth stones and slew the giant warrior with one well-aimed shot from his sling.

Wanna buy a bridge?

333 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:33:23am

re: #227 Last Mohican

Think about what happened to the Cossacks.

334 Wendya  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:33:26am

re: #249 winston06

the free Iran belongs to its women

Indeed.

Image: i17_19370165.jpg

335 lawhawk  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:33:26am

re: #295 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It looks like the woman in that photo is shielding another person, a man on the ground near the wheel of the motorcycle.

336 Gearhead  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:33:32am

re: #315 Dianna

Point two remains unexamined.

Point three isn't looking supported, exactly.

We shall see.

I can't find a link to support this, but I could swear I saw a report yesterday that the Iranian Army had stated it would not fire on fellow Iranians.

337 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:34:02am

rt @iranbaan says ppl engaging security forces in Shiraz, Tabriz, Mashad, Karaj, Ahvaz, Rasht #IranElection

338 tfc3rid  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:34:15am

re: #165 Nevergiveup

I never saw that before. You?

Never and hope I never do again... It's my siesta squad in full effect...

339 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:34:21am

re: #324 winston06

Winston. I have had some disagreements with you in the past (mostly religious in nature). I probably was not very kind. I apologize. Having you here with us is so very valuable. Thank you for being here.

340 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:34:21am
341 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:34:22am

re: #328 pre-Boomer Marine brat

thank you... got it

342 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:34:22am

re: #3 Mr Spiffy

Where is Jimmy Carter when you need him?

Busy certifying dinner jackets results no doubt

343 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:34:25am

re: #325 reine.de.tout

From TehranBureau:

From Isfahan: the police that were overwhelmed by the protestors came back...this time around 300...fully loaded and prepared,

they shot tear gas into the crowds followed by rubber bullets, the bullets and batons were aimed for the faces in order to exert the maximum

continuation:
to exert the maximum injury..this brutal tactic paid off...the crowd dispersed...

there are however widespread local protests...the brutality and harshness of the secuirty forces is disgusting...


there is a rumor that some of the security forces are lebanese...it surely seems so.... [this seems to be a popular rumor; unconfirmed]

344 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:34:27am

I see quite a few comments on here about how we shouldn't show support for Mousavi because he is just as mullah-centric as our vertically-challenged little friend. Let me make one thing abundantly clear: For me, it's not about who wins, it's the fact that the will of the people was served. Yeah, Mousavi could turn out to be just as bad as the idiot they have right now. But at least they elected him fairly and democratically - which is the first step to being able to elect the person they need to bring their government in the direction they want. If all they can do is participate in a sham election with no real effect on the outcome, what hope do they have? But if it can be shown that their votes matter, then the pendulum has swung the other way; the power is in their hands.

345 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:34:35am

re: #339 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

no problem

346 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:34:39am

re: #282 sattv4u2

It is already"tonight" there. it's approching 11 p.m.

Sorry - I'm thinking the dead of night and dawn.

347 brookly red  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:35:00am

re: #331 FurryOldGuyJeans

A free Iran would stabilize TWO countries in one fell swoop.

I am thinking more than that...

348 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:35:00am

re: #332 Cato the Elder

Wanna buy a bridge?

Sure ,, jump of it and I'll meet you at the bottom with the check

349 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:35:02am

re: #326 soxfan4life

One Ronald Wilson Reagan would have already made a speech declaring America's support for free people wanting a democracy. Of course he never needed a public opinion poll to tell him what was right or wrong.

Reagan would have spoken out. Of course, Reagan would also not have bothered to check what was actually going on.

350 yma o hyd  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:35:17am

re: #286 reine.de.tout

FATS?
Mine are coming in FASTer. But not FATTer.
LOL
sorry
:-)

Awww ....

Me fingers aren't working that well, it seems ...

351 alegrias  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:35:46am

re: #272 Sharmuta

Never let major world events slip past without working your ratings. *spit*

* * *
P.S. You say you don't watch Fox news, be glad they're not asking for a bailout like the NYT and CNN (which gets their funding from tyrants directly).

Fox News covers more serious subject matter than you give it credit for, and has serious Iran experts commenting, not apologists for mullahs.

352 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:35:48am

re: #332 Cato the Elder

No help from the accrued work of every other American president since the advent of the cold war.

Much of which had been undone by his immediate predecessor, of course.

353 livefreeor die  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:36:10am

re: #337 winston06

rt @iranbaan says ppl engaging security forces in Shiraz, Tabriz, Mashad, Karaj, Ahvaz, Rasht #IranElection

God bless you, Winston, for your tireless reporting. It is much appreciated.

354 Kronocide  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:36:13am

re: #287 lawhawk

That makes too much sense and requires savvy that the current administration is not capable of. However, I would love to be proved wrong on that.

355 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:36:20am

re: #337 winston06

rt @iranbaan says ppl engaging security forces in Shiraz, Tabriz, Mashad, Karaj, Ahvaz, Rasht #IranElection

That's wonderful. I hope the people stay safe.

356 soxfan4life  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:36:21am

re: #332 Cato the Elder

And he did it single-handed, too. No help from the accrued work of every other American president since the advent of the cold war. No factoring in the Soviet Union's gradual collapse under its own weight. No, the mighty Ronald took five smooth stones and slew the giant warrior with one well-aimed shot from his sling.

Wanna buy a bridge?


We all know that the only President capable of performing anything without assistance from prior administrations is the current one. He will singlehandedly change the face of America with no help from any other Presidents, except Jimmy Carter who 0 stole the playbook from.

357 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:36:24am

re: #347 brookly red

I am thinking more than that...

Two countries would be stabilized nearly instantaneously, Iran & Iraq. The stability would ripple out from there.

The mullahs in Iran have been a major source of instability to the region for far too long.

358 haakondahl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:36:25am

re: #287 lawhawk

For an Administration that is supposed to have a way with words, their silence is deafening.

Heck, you can get Gibbs to come up to the podium to make a statement talking about the US respect for human rights and the free and fair elections and that the Iranian response to demonstrations over questions with violence undermines their legitimacy. It's a statement of fact, but by phrasing it that way, it leaves the door open to the fact that Ahmadinejad could have indeed been the winner, Mousavi could have been the winner, and still castigates the regime for the violent crackdown against protesters who see the regime's actions since the election results announcements as illegitimate.

Add to that a statement that we support liberty and freedom against all unjust regimes around the world.

WORD. See my 263.

359 lawhawk  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:36:27am

Here's something that we also need to keep in mind. Nearly everyone is focused on events in Tehran, which is where the media and the bulk of the demonstrations are being covered.

What's happening in the rest of the country. Who's doing what? Is there any activity among the IRGC or the regular Army? That might give a better idea about whether this has legs, and whether the IRGC or Army may take action to decide matters. Or, are they letting events on the streets of Tehran dictate what will happen next.

It's the question that the media isn't asking either. They're too busy to see past Tehran. Is there any activity in Qom?

360 2senseplain  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:36:41am

re: #223 experiencedtraveller

Seem to recall that in the last revolution the bazaaris played a big part. I assume their cultural dynamics aren't quite the same as ours.

361 [deleted]  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:36:48am
362 brucee  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:36:53am

re: #283 alegrias

Anyone know what IRAQ next door is saying?
Iraq's president lived in Iran for years during Saddam's tyranny.

Speak up, IraQ! You're right next door.

They did, the congratulated the monkey on his achievement.

On another note, apparently people are burning down the basij base that the shots came from. (from Iran_Updates on twitter)
If mullas were testing waters, I think they got a straight answer.

363 alegrias  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:37:10am

re: #313 brucee

McCain on Fox: It's really a sham that they pulled off. I hope we will Act... sanctions on oil ...

* * * *

Netanyahu called Iran's elections sham elections yesterday.

McCain knows sanctions are a waste, as so many countries cheat & will try to make money off Iran, just as they did during 12 years of sanctions against IraQ.

364 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:37:15am
365 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:37:15am

re: #349 SanFranciscoZionist

Reagan would have spoken out. Of course, Reagan would also not have bothered to check what was actually going on.

You know, guys, the hatin'-on-Reagan stuff is just sooo 80s. Hell, not even Obama does it.

366 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:37:23am

re: #324 winston06

I am on the verge of tears... Fucking white house is silent

{Winston} manly hug!
I know this is hard on you.
Vent, and then calm down.

We love you for what you're feeling and doing.

367 Gearhead  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:37:29am

re: #358 haakondahl

WORD. See my 263.

Maybe the teleprompter's in the shop. Excessive wear, you know.

368 yma o hyd  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:37:38am
369 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:37:38am

re: #353 livefreeor die

if you like it, you can also donate to my coffee fund. I have been up for 2 days reporting.

370 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:37:48am

re: #332 Cato the Elder

No factoring in the Soviet Union's gradual collapse under its own weight

due too,,,, c'mon ,, you KNOW you want to say it ,,, come on

Oh hell,, i'll say it for you

Due to Reagan forcing their hand vis a vis militrary spending
There ,,, feel better now !?!?!

371 Mike McDaniel  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:38:11am

re: #22 Cato the Elder

Repost from last thread (I always seem to come in at the end):

To all those blaming the administration for not doing or saying enough in this situation:

It is in the nature of revolutions (when they go beyond protests that can be put down with a show of force within a week) that they must be fought and won by the revolutionaries.

With a vast imbalance of power in place (cell phones and Twitter against machine guns and tanks), cheering on the side that is likely to lose, no matter how righteous it makes you feel, is likely to make it worse for the losers in the end. They can then be accused of being foreign agents as well as dissidents. See Western reactions to Tienanmen sitch as it was ongoing.

Even if the would-be revolutionaries gain the upper hand, they will have to keep it. What are we going to do, parachute in the 82nd Airborne?

Grow up.

No, we're not sending the 82nd.

But Marines, each carrying two or three rifles to arm the resistance, might not come amiss.

This offers an opportunity to overthrow the mullahocracy without a lot of American intervention. Aiding the Iranians to free themselves - with an entirely home-grown revolution. We just provide support. It's the sort of thing that is the essence of successful insurgency and counterinsurgency.

372 anat  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:38:19am

Fantastic pic

Just look at these ladies!

373 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:38:19am

re: #354 BigPapa

That makes too much sense and requires savvy that the current administration is not capable of. However, I would love to be proved wrong on that.

Obama and his administration was touted as being the most tech savvy ever, hands down. So far they are showing they haven't a clue.

374 yma o hyd  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:38:19am

re: #353 livefreeor die

God bless you, Winston, for your tireless reporting. It is much appreciated.

I second (or third) that!

Thank you, winston!

375 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:38:27am

re: #366 pre-Boomer Marine brat

It is hard to see your sisters and brothers being beaten down in Tehran by these animals.

376 turn  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:38:34am

re: #286 reine.de.tout

FATS?
Mine are coming in FASTer. But not FATTer.
LOL
sorry
:-)

turn new what you meant :.)

377 livefreeor die  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:38:34am

re: #356 soxfan4life

We all know that the only President capable of performing anything without assistance from prior administrations is the current one. He will singlehandedly change the face of America with no help from any other Presidents, except Jimmy Carter who 0 stole the playbook from.

"stole the playbook"?!?
Racist!
/

378 MrPaulRevere  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:38:42am

re: #332 Cato the Elder

Wow. Who pissed in your corn flakes today?

379 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:38:43am
380 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:38:49am

re: #357 FurryOldGuyJeans

Two countries would be stabilized nearly instantaneously, Iran & Iraq. The stability would ripple out from there.

The mullahs in Iran have been a major source of instability to the region for far too long.

I just hope that the women of Saudi Arabia and the Middle East see these pictures. I just hope there won't be a "mow down" moment. That is my fear now.

The women are standing against clubs. Guns? Whole nuther story. Shudder.

381 Pawn of the Oppressor  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:38:51am
packs of government thugs beating people

Tell me, why do we own guns again?

/

382 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:38:52am

re: #351 alegrias

Bully for them. I've managed to be informed on this event thanks to the internet and other technologies without resorting to television, which I can't watch now anyways.

P.S.- Fox News is not your friend.

383 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:39:06am

re: #361 buzzsawmonkey

I don't know if they have such a plan in any current/updated/workable form; I don't know if we have an administration that has the nerve or the will to implement it, if such a plan exists.

I believe the current contingency plan calls for Obama to strike a thoughtful pose, with an endearingly furrowed brow.

384 Kragar  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:39:14am

There was a movie, mid 90s, which had some newsanchors for a CNN type network when something like this broke out. One of the anchors tried to stick with the script and carried on "Meanwhile, in other news..." The female anchor snapped "Are you out of your fucking mind? There is NO other news!"

We're in one of those "No other news" times right now.

385 Barflytom  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:39:19am

re: #194 Cato the Elder

It would be nice to believe that our Dear Leader is refraining from weighing in on the side of the protesters after making a carefully calculated decision not to interfere prematurely and give the Khamenei / Ahmadinejad regime ammunition to blame the unrest on a foreign plot.

Unfortunately, it's probably because he simply doesn't have a clue what to do or say. What does the teleprompter think ?

386 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:39:27am

re: #381 Pawn of the Oppressor

and why liberals want to take them away

387 redstateredneck  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:39:38am

re: #375 winston06

It is hard to see your sisters and brothers being beaten down in Tehran by these animals.

I can't imagine your pain and frustration. Hang in there, {winston}.

388 turn  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:39:42am

re: #288 haakondahl

I am now following Winston80's updates on my CELLPHONE IN AFGHANISTAN.

This is amazing. ht tp :// twitter.com / Winston80

no spaces.

I clicked on one of his links in a tweet and discovered that he is TRANSLATING tweets on the fly--this is an amazingly valuable service.

Winston, thank you. LGF has a lot of members, and a huge read-only base--you are providing a truly valuable service.

Thank you.

The translation didn't even dawn on me. THANKS winston!

389 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:39:42am

re: #359 lawhawk

The rest of the country?

Winston just reported people engaging security forces in Shiraz, Tabriz, Mashad, Karaj, Ahvaz, and Rasht as well as Tehran. It looks like this will get out of the Mullahs' control, if it hasn't already.

390 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:39:45am

re: #378 MrPaulRevere

Wow. Who pissed in your corn flakes today?

I pissed back (#348 and 370)

391 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:39:50am

re: #362 brucee

They did, the congratulated the monkey on his achievement.

On another note, apparently people are burning down the basij base that the shots came from. (from Iran_Updates on twitter)
If mullas were testing waters, I think they got a straight answer.

How do you say "payback's a bitch" in Farsi?

392 [deleted]  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:40:05am
393 Gus  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:40:08am

re: #383 Occasional Reader

I believe the current contingency plan calls for Obama to strike a thoughtful pose, with an endearingly furrowed brow.

The Obama Affect

/

394 Sunlight  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:40:14am

re: #319 haakondahl

Youu should change your nic to Fucking Gloom. Give you Patrick Henry or Give you Death?

Nice guy.

395 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:40:19am

From StopAhmadie:
NEWS: Ppl spreading the word: tomorrow gathering at ValiAsr Sq. 5 PM #iranelection

from Iran09:
RT: @oxfordgirl: shots several areas N Tehran - basij may be trying stop ppl getting to Tajrish demo tonight #iranelection #Tehran #Azadi

396 Spider Mensch  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:40:22am

Not sure if it was mentioned above or in another thread..but thinking militarily..now is the perfect window of oportunity to hit the iranian nuke site...just food for thought. I'm sure no one would....would they?

397 bellamags  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:40:24am

avatar check

398 soxfan4life  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:40:24am

re: #349 SanFranciscoZionist

Reagan would have spoken out. Of course, Reagan would also not have bothered to check what was actually going on.


Sounds like the BS 0 fed us on the stimulus. Of course once 0 gets a concrete poll telling him what America wants to hear he will say it oh so eloquently. Had we had that kind of leadership under Reagan, the USSR would still be in existence

399 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:40:29am

re: #370 sattv4u2

No factoring in the Soviet Union's gradual collapse under its own weight

due too,,,, c'mon ,, you KNOW you want to say it ,,, come on

Oh hell,, i'll say it for you

Due to Reagan forcing their hand vis a vis militrary spending
There ,,, feel better now !?!?!

I am not discounting that. Not at all.

Reagan was a great man ("tear down this wall") and a hypocrite (skulking around with mullahs and the likes of Oliver North).

No man is a hero to his biographer.

400 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:40:31am

re: #372 anat

Just noticed...look at the swinging club. It is rubber. Intention to cause pain, not harm.

What if they pull out real stuff?

401 haakondahl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:40:32am

re: #344 thedopefishlives

I see quite a few comments on here about how we shouldn't show support for Mousavi because he is just as mullah-centric as our vertically-challenged little friend. Let me make one thing abundantly clear: For me, it's not about who wins, it's the fact that the will of the people was served. Yeah, Mousavi could turn out to be just as bad as the idiot they have right now. But at least they elected him fairly and democratically - which is the first step to being able to elect the person they need to bring their government in the direction they want. If all they can do is participate in a sham election with no real effect on the outcome, what hope do they have? But if it can be shown that their votes matter, then the pendulum has swung the other way; the power is in their hands.

And even if Mousavi *were* stealing the election, he would STILL be better than Ahmadinejad. So I do not take seriously any equivocation on this. Agreed.

402 alegrias  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:40:38am

re: #294 Occasional Reader

Of course, he also managed to bring down the most murderous political system ever devised by man, but never mind that.

* * *
Without firing a shot, Reagan toppled the USSR. Thank you, Americans willing to fight the Red Menace, not join it!

403 rightside  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:40:46am

re: #397 bellamags

wow.

404 Kragar  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:40:54am

re: #381 Pawn of the Oppressor

Tell me, why do we own guns again?

/

Hunting (I'll get back to you on what exactly)

405 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:40:54am

re: #387 redstateredneck

I wish Bush was in office now instead of that quasi-Marxist/Fascist Obamble

406 tfc3rid  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:41:09am

re: #359 lawhawk

Might US Special Forces be in the mix somewhere else?

407 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:41:32am

re: #389 Honorary Yooper

Just had a funny (not haha, but kinda) thought....

What if they stormed the Mullahs "compound" and held them hostage.

408 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:41:40am

re: #379 reine.de.tout

Protester with baton; police with spray

I'm a little suprised that the Iranian police uniforms say "POLICE" on them.

"We're so poor, we can't even afford our own language!"

-Mel Brooks' History of the World, Part I, French Revolution bit

409 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:41:42am

twits from Iran stopped... shoot

410 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:41:58am

StopAhmadi:

Ppl went nuts all over Iran today. It's so clear that majority are unhappy with #IranElection results!

411 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:41:59am

re: #325 reine.de.tout

From TehranBureau:

From Isfahan: the police that were overwhelmed by the protestors came back...this time around 300...fully loaded and prepared,

they shot tear gas into the crowds followed by rubber bullets, the bullets and batons were aimed for the faces in order to exert the maximum

Now they're facing the test. Can they stand and take the riot police? 300 is not that many, provided you're willing to take some damage.

412 Kragar  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:42:03am

re: #389 Honorary Yooper

The rest of the country?

Winston just reported people engaging security forces in Shiraz, Tabriz, Mashad, Karaj, Ahvaz, and Rasht as well as Tehran. It looks like this will get out of the Mullahs' control, if it hasn't already.

If they people are engaging the security forces and not breaking up, then this is going to get very interesting.

413 jcm  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:42:14am

re: #370 sattv4u2

No factoring in the Soviet Union's gradual collapse under its own weight

due too,,,, c'mon ,, you KNOW you want to say it ,,, come on

Oh hell,, i'll say it for you

Due to Reagan forcing their hand vis a vis militrary spending
There ,,, feel better now !?!?!

RWR first articulated the plan for causing the Soviet Union to collapse in the '60s.

Anyone who things RWR was the lucky recipient of a historical accident is a historical ignoramus.

Rabbit Bait said we needed to come to accommodations with the mass murdering tyrants of the Soviet Union.

414 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:42:17am

re: #397 bellamags

avatar check

Bella !

415 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:42:22am

re: #396 Spider Mensch

Not sure if it was mentioned above or in another thread..but thinking militarily..now is the perfect window of oportunity to hit the iranian nuke site...just food for thought. I'm sure no one would....would they?


Right now the Mossad needs to find a way to use the instability in iran as an opportunity to do some quiet damage to some key nuke operation in iran. Also, sabotaging an oil refinery in iran would be a great way to cause the mullahs economic harm at a time that others within iran might be willing to help out. Imagine a large MF'ing explosion today or tomorrow! Talk about upping the ante against the medieval savages!

416 soxfan4life  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:42:28am

re: #365 Occasional Reader

You know, guys, the hatin'-on-Reagan stuff is just sooo 80s. Hell, not even Obama does it.


He just makes jokes about Nancy Reagan.

417 pingjockey  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:42:34am

re: #406 tfc3rid
I doubt it. I really really doubt it. That would give the mad mullahs the cover of 'outside instigators".

418 Gearhead  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:42:34am

re: #407 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Just had a funny (not haha, but kinda) thought....

What if they stormed the Mullahs "compound" and held them hostage.

I thought my prayers were on an encrypted line...

419 redstateredneck  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:42:37am

re: #403 rightside

wow.

Told Y'all she was a hottie!

420 yma o hyd  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:42:40am

Just a general observation;

In the same way that fear and panic are infectious (such as that people stay indoors, cowering, if only a few are out an get beaten) - in the same way is courage infectious.

We're seeing an amazing example of infectious courage in Iran right now!

421 Attaboid  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:42:45am

Here's a good photo of the crowd... Some signs in English.

422 haakondahl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:42:55am

re: #378 MrPaulRevere

Wow. Who pissed in your corn flakes today?

Haunted by Reagan's Ghost, apparently. Boo!

423 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:42:56am

re: #411 Dianna

Now they're facing the test. Can they stand and take the riot police? 300 is not that many, provided you're willing to take some damage.

Just saw a photo - man shot in the head (won't post link).
caption:
we wont stay silent , we will react ... crime crime crime #iranelection

424 Kenneth  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:43:00am

re: #359 lawhawk

I have seen reports of similar protests in Isfahan, Tabriz and other cities. I wouldn't think Qom will join in, as that is the mullah's power base.

425 redstateredneck  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:43:16am

re: #405 winston06

I wish Bush was in office now instead of that quasi-Marxist/Fascist Obamble

Don't we all?

426 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:43:21am

I was thinking the little maggot in N Korea might get jealous the world's attention is elsewhere and might think about firing off a few more missiles or nukes?

427 pingjockey  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:43:23am

re: #409 winston06
Just damn! Bravo Zulu on the fantastic job you're doing.

428 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:43:52am

re: #371 Mike McDaniel

No, we're not sending the 82nd.

But Marines, each carrying two or three rifles to arm the resistance, might not come amiss.

This offers an opportunity to overthrow the mullahocracy without a lot of American intervention. Aiding the Iranians to free themselves - with an entirely home-grown revolution. We just provide support. It's the sort of thing that is the essence of successful insurgency and counterinsurgency.

There has to be a resistance to arm. Not just a bunch of courageous protesters. Brave nail-polished girls with faux-Armani handbags and boyfriends who run away when they beg them to stay would not, unfortunately, know the barrel end from the stock. What you propose takes time and planning. You can't just pass out guns at a meeting and say "here's the safety, now go get 'em." Be realistic.

429 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:43:55am

re: #399 Cato the Elder

I am not discounting that. Not at all.

Reagan was a great man ("tear down this wall") and a hypocrite (skulking around with mullahs and the likes of Oliver North).

No man is a hero to his biographer.

ummm, yeah ,, ya kinda did ,,,, and you were caught on it,, thats why the backtrack now, imho

430 livefreeor die  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:43:55am

re: #407 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Just had a funny (not haha, but kinda) thought....

What if they stormed the Mullahs "compound" and held them hostage.

ROTFLMAO!

431 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:43:56am

re: #393 Gus 802

The Obama Affect

/

Doubleplus pun score!

432 brookly red  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:44:00am

re: #396 Spider Mensch

Not sure if it was mentioned above or in another thread..but thinking militarily..now is the perfect window of oportunity to hit the iranian nuke site...just food for thought. I'm sure no one would....would they?

I don't think that would be helpful right now...

433 rightside  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:44:00am

re: #419 redstateredneck

I never heard you or anyone else say that, but I completely agree with you!

434 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:44:03am

re: #397 bellamags

avatar check

Whoa!

435 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:44:10am

re: #407 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Just had a funny (not haha, but kinda) thought....

What if they stormed the Mullahs "compound" and held them hostage.

One of them was Twittering about a march on Khameni House. It may just come down to them taking the Mullahs hostage. What sweet irony that would be.

436 KenJen  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:44:13am

re: #300 Flyers1974

What is there to be prepared for, honestly? He could have had a speech handed to him anytime he wanted by one of the many speechwriters available to every president. Seriously, I think this is the very ODS mentioned on this very site. Obama isn't failing to make a simple easy statement because he is unprepared.

Okay then why is he failing to make a simple, easy, statement? I know what your going to say. His teleprompter is broken.

437 lawhawk  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:44:15am

re: #384 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Sadly, that isn't the case. There are local stories that trump the events in the far off mystical land of Persia. Like in NY, the whole mess with the state senate, which has a budget mess to consider once they figure out what's going on. And the media has to dutifully cover Obama's comments on health policy because of the speech delivered today.

The order of the day is indeed events in Iran, but the news deciders have other intentions.

The Iranian elections wouldn't have had this kind of importance but for the rise of the demonstrations and the questioning of the legitimacy of the mullahocracy, which managed to get Khamenei to sign off on Ahmadinejad's win. When demonstrators didn't stop after that, the mullahs must have begun to wonder if things weren't going to end well for them.

Now, the IRGC and Basijl are busy doing what they do best - intimidating the demonstrators into obedience.

438 Kenneth  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:44:15am

re: #378 MrPaulRevere

Cato pisses in his own cornflakes every morning.

439 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:44:26am

re: #399 Cato the Elder

I am not discounting that. Not at all.

Reagan was a great man ("tear down this wall") and a hypocrite (skulking around with mullahs and the likes of Oliver North).

No man is a hero to his biographer.

If you're looking for perfection in a leader, nobody will ever meet your standards. Reagan was good enough for me. We could use him now.

440 NY Nana  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:44:28am

re: #405 winston06

I wish Bush was in office now instead of that quasi-Marxist/Fascist Obamble

From your mouth....

Got to rush..daughter and almost 3-year old grandson are on their way here from Brooklyn, for a 'surprise' visit.

Great to see you posting, and I hope that you will get some good news from home.

441 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:44:31am

re: #415 _RememberTonyC

Right now the Mossad needs to find a way to use the instability in iran as an opportunity to do some quiet damage to some key nuke operation in iran. Also, sabotaging an oil refinery in iran would be a great way to cause the mullahs economic harm at a time that others within iran might be willing to help out. Imagine a large MF'ing explosion today or tomorrow! Talk about upping the ante against the medieval savages!

They're probably working on it. I'm refraining from giving thoughts on what they could do, though. If it were up to me, I'd do something that wouldn't get found until later, and cause more damage.

442 jcbunga  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:44:34am

Sic semper tyrannis

443 Macker  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:44:47am

re: #421 Attaboid

Here's a good photo of the crowd... Some signs in English.

Honesty = Islam.
Hmmm...interesting placard.

444 Flyers1974  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:45:06am

re: #330 pink freud

You now speak for 0bama? Wow.

That scenario seems possible to you? That he can't release a simple statement supporting the revolution/riots whatever it turns out to be, because he's unprepared? If this is true, then yes, I should speak for Obama. I have the ability and talent to write on a piece of paper and then hand that paper to Obama, "the USA supports the people of Iran in their fight for freedom."

445 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:45:08am

re: #405 winston06

I wish Bush was in office now instead of that quasi-Marxist/Fascist Obamble

I would even take McCain over what we got stuck with by starry-eyed, clueless fucks and petulant, whiny assholes.

446 redstateredneck  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:45:08am

re: #423 reine.de.tout

Just saw a photo - man shot in the head (won't post link).
caption:
we wont stay silent , we will react ... crime crime crime #iranelection

Oh, {reine}! I'm sitting here with my hand clapped over my mouth.

447 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:45:12am

re: #343 reine.de.tout

continuation:
to exert the maximum injury..this brutal tactic paid off...the crowd dispersed...

there are however widespread local protests...the brutality and harshness of the secuirty forces is disgusting...

there is a rumor that some of the security forces are lebanese...it surely seems so.... [this seems to be a popular rumor; unconfirmed]

If they backed down, the protestors don't deserve to win.

448 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:45:14am

re: #429 sattv4u2

ummm, yeah ,, ya kinda did ,,,, and you were caught on it,, thats why the backtrack now, imho

People who write "imho" generally aren't.

Believe as you like.

449 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:45:19am

re: #415 _RememberTonyC

Right now the Mossad needs to find a way to use the instability in iran as an opportunity to do some quiet damage to some key nuke operation in iran. Also, sabotaging an oil refinery in iran would be a great way to cause the mullahs economic harm at a time that others within iran might be willing to help out. Imagine a large MF'ing explosion today or tomorrow! Talk about upping the ante against the medieval savages!


Dunno. At this particular juncture, that might be counterproductive (mullahs could rally some portion of the population against the terrible threat from Da Juice). Tough call.

450 [deleted]  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:45:24am
451 jcm  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:45:31am

re: #375 winston06

It is hard to see your sisters and brothers being beaten down in Tehran by these animals.

I'm with you, close to tears. People I know have been yearning with for this day.

We've got an administration and people whining, "It's too hard."

*spit*

452 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:45:32am

rt @iranbaan says ppl engaging police in Kerman, Zahedan & Bandar Abbas #iranElection

453 alegrias  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:45:38am

re: #401 haakondahl

And even if Mousavi *were* stealing the election, he would STILL be better than Ahmadinejad. So I do not take seriously any equivocation on this. Agreed.

* * * *
Iran is a police state, and held a SHAM election. It's all rigged and it's all BAD.

454 rightside  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:45:40am

re: #421 Attaboid

Well, we finally know where waldo is.

455 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:45:50am

re: #375 winston06

It is hard to see your sisters and brothers being beaten down in Tehran by these animals.

My first inclination was to reply ... "I know".

No, I don't.
I'm not even certain I can imagine what it's like for those on the streets.
You and your people have my prayers!

456 Cygnus  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:45:59am

re: #324 winston06

I am on the verge of tears... Fucking white house is silent

Obama wishes he could vote "Present" right now.

457 MrPaulRevere  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:46:07am

re: #428 Cato the Elder

"Brave nail-polished girls with faux-Armani handbags"...Someone is having a bad day. A really bad day.

458 lawhawk  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:46:14am

re: #406 tfc3rid

I'm not sure. However, I'd expect Ahmadinejad to trot out some Iranian Americans and claim that they were behind the whole election mess - to show that the regime was duped by these guys who threw the election, or something along those lines. Show that there are traitors among the protesters, to undermine the legitimacy of the protests.

459 soxfan4life  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:46:19am

re: #405 winston06


There is nothing quasi about 0 and marxism or fascism.

460 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:47:12am

re: #448 Cato the Elder

People who write "imho" generally aren't.

Believe as you like.

WOW ,, I have your permission and ,, like , ,everything !

461 yma o hyd  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:47:23am

Picture

Police destroyed computer ...

462 tfc3rid  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:47:26am

re: #417 pingjockey

I doubt it. I really really doubt it. That would give the mad mullahs the cover of 'outside instigators".

Undercover of course... Used to subvert and lead the people...

This might be the opportunity we've been waiting for...

463 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:47:39am

re: #359 lawhawk

Here's something that we also need to keep in mind. Nearly everyone is focused on events in Tehran, which is where the media and the bulk of the demonstrations are being covered.

What's happening in the rest of the country. Who's doing what? Is there any activity among the IRGC or the regular Army? That might give a better idea about whether this has legs, and whether the IRGC or Army may take action to decide matters. Or, are they letting events on the streets of Tehran dictate what will happen next.

It's the question that the media isn't asking either. They're too busy to see past Tehran. Is there any activity in Qom?

Isfahan's buckled.

464 alegrias  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:47:40am

re: #436 KenJen

Okay then why is he failing to make a simple, easy, statement? I know what your going to say. His teleprompter is broken.

* * * *
Simple Obama Statement: (SOS)
"I can no more disown Ahmedinejad than I can disown my own Rev. Wright".
How's that? That's straight from the Obama make nice with terrorists playbook.

465 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:47:45am

rt @iranbaan says shots fired at ppl in West of Tehran #IranElection

466 Sunlight  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:47:50am

re: #401 haakondahl

And even if Mousavi *were* stealing the election, he would STILL be better than Ahmadinejad. So I do not take seriously any equivocation on this. Agreed.

What's better about him? (I really do want to know)

467 livefreeor die  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:47:59am

re: #456 Cygnus

Obama wishes he could vote "Present" right now.

He's not even doing that.

468 soxfan4life  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:48:08am

re: #456 Cygnus

Obama wishes he could vote "Present" right now.


I think his silence is a present vote.

469 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:48:11am

re: #461 yma o hyd

Picture

Police destroyed computer ...

But they didn't destroy twitter!

470 lostlakehiker  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:48:23am

If indeed Moussavi had more votes, how is it that the brownshirts have the upper hand in the street fighting? In Beijing, back when the people there made their unsuccessful request that the government grant them some respect and some rights, the Chinese "People's" government had to bring in Mongols to put down the demonstrations because they had no police, no army, no civilians on their side, no nothing outside of non-Chinese with tanks and machine guns, to work with.

The Iranian government is probably going to be able to hold it together and maintain control. How they expect to have any sort of future when they maintain that control by beating and shooting the sector of their population that has some ability and inclination toward independent thought is a puzzle.

471 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:48:24am

re: #365 Occasional Reader

You know, guys, the hatin'-on-Reagan stuff is just sooo 80s. Hell, not even Obama does it.

I'm not hating. Reagan would have spoken out at this point, and given a great speech. He also would have imposed his own vision of what was going on over the situation. He might have been right, he might have been wrong. RR was never a fact-checker. He was a leader, not an analyst. That was a great strength of his, also a weakness.

Obama is almost an opposite personality type.

472 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:48:33am

Sen Lieberman will be on fox news

473 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:48:38am

re: #423 reine.de.tout

Just saw a photo - man shot in the head (won't post link).
caption:
we wont stay silent , we will react ... crime crime crime #iranelection

Saw the same picture.

But that doesn't say they're going to be angry enough to take the damage to take out the thugs.

474 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:48:38am

re: #456 Cygnus

Obama wishes he could vote "Present" right now.

Finding out making decisions are now his pay-grade must really be making him think he'd rather be sucking elephant balls right now.

475 right_on_target  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:48:41am

re: #396 Spider Mensch

Not sure if it was mentioned above or in another thread..but thinking militarily..now is the perfect window of oportunity to hit the iranian nuke site...just food for thought. I'm sure no one would....would they?

re: #406 tfc3rid

I doubt it. I really really doubt it. That would give the mad mullahs the cover of 'outside instigators".

++++++++++++++++++++++++
That would definitely boost the mullahs power and provide a rally round the crescent (flag) for them.

476 haakondahl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:48:45am

re: #394 Sunlight

Nice guy.

Look, I just disagree a LOT. Ordinary people are dying on the streets in Iran, and I can't understand AT ALL how people can not support what they are fighting for, EVEN IF when all is said and done it turns out to be the same old same old. They're taking a huge chance--I'll give them and their guy the benefit of the doubt.

It is after all, a government we don't care for and which treats its people awfully, currently treating the people even more awfully. I think it is safe to assume at a minimum, that they are not out protesting for yet MORE awful treatment.

477 turn  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:48:50am

re: #317 pingjockey

Believe me, there is a plan. The Pentagon has plans for everything, and the CIA. Whether or not that plan is implemented is another thing.

You're right of course ping, but I don't have confidence that O will act boldly in this circumstance. To be fair this is a very delicate situation to say the least. I'm just feeling the US needs to offer our strong support for these brave people who got cheated in a rigged election by a theocracy, and do it quickly.

478 redstateredneck  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:49:06am

re: #469 reine.de.tout

But they didn't destroy twitter!


Can't keep a good tweet down.

479 tfc3rid  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:49:14am

re: #458 lawhawk

But I think in this case that the people will not be held down by A-Jihad...

480 yma o hyd  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:49:19am

re: #469 reine.de.tout

But they didn't destroy twitter!

Amazing - Twitter was also of huge help during the Mumbai terror attack, for those of us watching fro outside India.

481 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:49:30am

from SmileOfCrash:
#iranelection i just can say oh my God!i talking to my cousin right now,and he says 5person murdered today in azadi...(he say so):((


apparently, more rallies/demonstrations for tomorrow:
From StopAhmadi:
News: "Tomorrow's rally in Vali Asr Sq is announced in today's march by Mousavi" #IranElection

482 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:49:30am

re: #461 yma o hyd

Picture

Police destroyed computer ...

Note the western posters on the wall above the computer.

483 alegrias  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:49:30am

LIVE

Sen. Joe Lieberman says rise up & support the people of Iran. (coming up next on Fox News)

Gutsy democrat patriot sighted!

484 soxfan4life  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:49:40am

re: #474 FurryOldGuyJeans

Finding out making decisions are now his pay-grade must really be making him think he'd rather be sucking elephant balls right now.


Or eating a waffle.

485 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:49:49am

re: #450 buzzsawmonkey

Thus ever with transsexuals?

Heh.

Of course, the actual translation is "death to tyrants". According to Seinfeld.

/flashback to forehead slap in front of t.v., circa 1993

486 Gus  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:49:51am

Oh look, a statement from a Obama State Department Spokesman:

US 'troubled' over Iran election

The United States has said it is "deeply troubled" by reports of violence and claims of polling fraud following the Iranian elections.

Ian Kelly, a US state department spokesman, said on Monday: "We're concerned about some of the treatment of demonstrators.

"We're calling for the Iranian authorities to respect the right of people to express themselves peacefully.

"We are deeply troubled by the reports of violent arrests and possible voting irregularities," he said.

He added Washington was closely watching the situation unfolding in Iran...

Deeply troubled.
We're concerned.
Deeply troubled.
Words, just words.
Obama shave.

487 jcm  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:49:54am

re: #465 winston06

rt @iranbaan says shots fired at ppl in West of Tehran #IranElection

West, Karaj is just west and a little north.

488 pingjockey  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:50:16am

re: #477 turn

I agree.

489 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:50:17am

re: #452 winston06

rt @iranbaan says ppl engaging police in Kerman, Zahedan & Bandar Abbas #iranElection

It's all OVER th' place!

490 Macker  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:50:21am

re: #471 SanFranciscoZionist

If you're saying that Оба́ма is an analyst, I couldn't agree with you more!

491 Kenneth  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:50:25am

In this photo you can see many people. Check the faces; these are not just young students. I see people of all ages, men & women. One thing you don't see are very many men with beards.

492 BatGuano  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:50:27am

re: #421 Attaboid

Here's a good photo of the crowd... Some signs in English.

Excellent photo. I'm beginning to get a sense of the scale of this thing.

493 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:50:29am

re: #457 MrPaulRevere

"Brave nail-polished girls with faux-Armani handbags"...Someone is having a bad day. A really bad day.

Yes, they are. They truly are.

Two teenage girls carrying bricks had French manicured fingernails and designer sunglasses.

You think I'm making fun of them? It's a tragedy.

494 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:50:36am

re: #461 yma o hyd

Picture

Police destroyed computer ...

Daiiisyyyy
Daiiisyyyy
give me your answer, dooo....

495 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:50:51am

re: #481 reine.de.tout

from SmileOfCrash:
#iranelection i just can say oh my God!i talking to my cousin right now,and he says 5person murdered today in azadi...(he say so):((

apparently, more rallies/demonstrations for tomorrow:
From StopAhmadi:
News: "Tomorrow's rally in Vali Asr Sq is announced in today's march by Mousavi" #IranElection

I don't think the people have any intention of stopping at this point. They will have to kill half of Tehran.

496 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:50:56am

from Iran09:
UNCONF: @lotfan: Automated threatening phone msgs are being left on people's answering machines in #Tehran #iranelection

Note that is UNCONFIRMED.

497 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:51:04am

re: #489 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Yes... this is anti-regime protest. Not Reform vs Hardliners any more

498 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:51:09am

re: #451 jcm

I'm with you, close to tears. People I know have been yearning with for this day.

We've got an administration and people whining, "It's too hard."

*spit*

Very revealing who here are Royalists and who are Revolutionaries.

Not even a statement supporting human rights. *SPIT*

499 Son of the Black Dog  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:51:19am

re: #280 Racer X

Man, we can only hope. American assistance has to be clandestine.

And not get immediately leaked to the NYT.

500 Cygnus  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:51:40am

re: #385 Barflytom

It would be nice to believe that our Dear Leader is refraining from weighing in on the side of the protesters after making a carefully calculated decision not to interfere prematurely and give the Khamenei / Ahmadinejad regime ammunition to blame the unrest on a foreign plot.

Unfortunately, it's probably because he simply doesn't have a clue what to do or say. What does the teleprompter think ?

WWTD - What Would the Teleprompter Do?

501 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:51:42am

re: #461 yma o hyd

Picture

Police destroyed computer monitor ...

Fixed it. The police probably think the computer is now dead.

Idiots.

502 SecondComing  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:51:46am

Muslima.com

The International Muslim Matrimonials site!


haha Bill Ayers now this one. These ads are funny.

503 yma o hyd  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:51:50am

re: #482 Sharmuta

Note the western posters on the wall above the computer.

I can't help wondering what happened to the owner of that computer - I hope he/she managed to escape the police.

504 apachegunner  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:51:57am

Rush is just now bringing it up

505 Wendya  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:52:04am

I know Sullivan can be a real prick but he has some interesting updates:

[Link: andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com...]

506 Flyers1974  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:52:11am

re: #436 KenJen

Okay then why is he failing to make a simple, easy, statement? I know what your going to say. His teleprompter is broken.

I don't know why. We both know Obama has made many statements before. He has that ability. Doesn't unpreparedness seem like one of the least likely explanations? Along with the other reasons i'm hearing, like "narcissism."

507 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:52:16am

re: #486 Gus 802

This is the State Department, so don't expect too much. That being said, also realize that State talks in diploma-speak, which is a bit of a different language with lots of nuance. The State Department is basically doing the equivalent of calling a bluff here; they're not throwing down the gauntlet, but they're letting the other guy (in this case, the mullahs) know that they know what's going on. Treading cautiously, as it were.

508 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:52:17am

France 24 video

509 alegrias  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:52:24am

Anyone know what IRAQ next door is saying?
Iraq's president (whose name escapes me right now) lived in Iran during Saddam's tyranny.

C'mon Iraq, show some support for Iranian people of good will.

510 Kenneth  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:52:47am

BREAKING PRESS RELEASE FROM THE WHITE HOUSE....

...Present.



WE NOW RETURN YOU TO PREVIOUSLY SCHEDULED OBLIVIOUSNESS

511 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:52:51am

re: #509 alegrias

Iraqis dont like Persians

512 jcbunga  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:52:52am

Sic semper tyrannis is a Latin phrase meaning "thus always to tyrants." It is sometimes mistranslated as "death to tyrants."

It is most known as the official motto of Virginia, suggested by George Mason.

Works well for rebels.

513 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:52:53am

re: #428 Cato the Elder

There has to be a resistance to arm. Not just a bunch of courageous protesters. Brave nail-polished girls with faux-Armani handbags and boyfriends who run away when they beg them to stay would not, unfortunately, know the barrel end from the stock. What you propose takes time and planning. You can't just pass out guns at a meeting and say "here's the safety, now go get 'em." Be realistic.

Revolutions are not made by realistic people. Not even limited ones.

514 Gus  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:53:00am

Silence = Death
So the leftists say.
Unless of course the silent one,
Is a Democrat we're forced to praise.

//

515 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:53:04am

Can anyone seriously doubt that POTUS Obama has caused the unrest in Iran with his wonderful speeches?
Long live the Shah!
Long live Shah Obama!
*reaches for another bottle*

516 MarineVet  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:53:35am

mm mm pro democracy movement? NOPE! Sorry folks this is NOT a pro democracy maybe something akin to what we have with the back stabbing Saudis but nothing like main street USA! Win or lose sharia law will still be in control women will still be persecuted and forced to wear burkahs and elementary children will still be going to massra schools and sitting cross legged and chanting from the koran.....pass the pipe around if you think this makes a difference to anything we have going here? The "revolution" of the 70's was directed by the religious extremists no different from the taliban this is the cancer that needs to be moderate or squashed let them reap in Lenin's words "religion is the opiate of the masses". There religious "old men" look to the almighty Koran written by a barbaric pedophile as there grasp towards wisdom. The only shining light I see here is that the educated college students are the most outspoken and that is what is need in the middle east in general MORE education! Not Koran education but real world applications SEPARATED from their cult called Islam......

517 right_on_target  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:53:41am

re: #461 yma o hyd

Picture

Police destroyed computer ...

++++++++++++++++++++++++++
They need "Netbooks", easily hidden.

518 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:53:45am

Reposting here, for anyone who may have missed it last thread.

Somebody's facebook album, 20 photos (go to "next" upper right of the photo box to scroll through them).

519 Buck  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:53:49am

Where are the Western Human Shields?

Intifada? Get those children to throw the rocks.... Put the women and children at the front! There is no way these thugs would hit a woman or child...


/sarc

520 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:54:10am

re: #493 Cato the Elder

You think I'm making fun of them? It's a tragedy.

Yes, you are making fun of them. In the least, they are trying. You remind me of someone who says they are helping someone by calling them names so they understand where you are coming from.

You're playing the little "I'm so rational" drama to the point that the only thing you accomplish is sounding crass, cold and uncaring.

It's not working. Try another tact.

521 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:54:13am

I haven't spoken out on Iran because I have no qualifications to speak on major issues. Obama's excuse is the same. #iranelection

522 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:54:15am

re: #497 winston06

Yes... this is anti-regime protest. Not Reform vs Hardliners any more

What's the possibility of the Artesh throwing in with the people?
Is there a scenario which might encompases that?

/I sudder to think ... it would be bloody

523 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:54:17am

re: #495 Sharmuta

I don't think the people have any intention of stopping at this point. They will have to kill half of Tehran.

I fear they may be able and willing to kill half of Tehran.

524 Silvergirl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:54:24am

re: #364 reine.de.tout

BBC Video and reporting

From that link:

German Chancellor Angela Merkel criticised the use of "completely unacceptable" force against protesters.

"We are worried about the limitations of media coverage and we believe there should be a transparent evaluation of the election result. There are signs of irregularities," she said.

Groups of Ahmadinejad supporters gathered outside French and British embassies in Tehran, protesting against what they consider to be foreign interference in Iran's affairs.

"We have gathered here to protest the hidden interference of the Brits and the world, who are trying to create chaos in our country," one protester said.

Among the countries congratulating Mr Ahmadinejad on his victory were Iraq, Afghanistan, Venezuela and North Korea.

525 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:54:26am

re: #471 SanFranciscoZionist

He also would have imposed his own vision of what was going on over the situation. He might have been right, he might have been wrong. RR was never a fact-checker.

He seemed to have gotten the basic facts of the great conflict of his time right, when the supposedly really, really smart people got them wrong. He knew that the Soviet Union was a rotten edifice that could be toppled with a prolonged, firm push, and that the people of the USSR and its vassal states were ready for a change. This, at a time when the Foreign Affairs geniuses were certain that Soviet communism was here to stay, and we'd better just get used to it.

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" represented a firmer grasp of the facts, than did a sea of the "scholarly" articles being published at that time.

526 alegrias  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:54:29am

re: #511 winston06

Iraqis dont like Persians

* * * *
You may be right, but Shiites are the MAJORITY in both countries, and travel back and forth to their "holy" places.

Iraq's president took shelter in Iran, he owes someone something for his own life.

527 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:54:45am

re: #449 Occasional Reader

Dunno. At this particular juncture, that might be counterproductive (mullahs could rally some portion of the population against the terrible threat from Da Juice). Tough call.

it's not like whomever does the deeds will leave a note that says "From Bibi." Mossad has plenty of operatives in the region .... some are surely iranians and that gives Israel plausible deniability.

528 MrPaulRevere  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:54:52am

re: #493 Cato the Elder

Yeah, I think you are mocking them. Have you ever considered changing your nickname to 'Cato the Elitist'?

529 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:54:57am

re: #437 lawhawk

No guarantee the IRGC and street thugs can make it stick, this time.

530 tfc3rid  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:54:59am

Thinking outside the box here... Might this be the oppotunity of 'chaos' that might bring forth the Mahdi from the Pumpkin Patch in the brains of the Mad Mullahs and A-Jihad?

531 Fart Knocker  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:55:01am

Winston, You are the man! Thanks for your posting!

532 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:55:13am

re: #428 Cato the Elder

Be realistic.

I am eternally grateful that our Founding Fathers chose a path of High Expectations instead of being realistic.

533 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:55:21am

Iran09:
TR @iranbaan: shooting in Jannat-Abad


IranElection09 has a quote from Mousavi?

RT: @jadi: Mousavi: People are standing for their right and I am ready to pay any price to defend your ideals #iranelection

534 2senseplain  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:55:27am

re: #495 Sharmuta

What exactly makes you think they wouldn't?

535 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:55:28am

pics from Iran

[Link: www.boston.com...]

536 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:55:30am

Good luck to the Iranians.

Bad cess to the know-it-alls of the 101st Keyboard Brigade.

May light prevail over darkness.

See you all tonight.

537 jcm  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:55:43am

re: #511 winston06

Iraqis dont like Persians

Arabs and Persians, long time animus.

538 turn  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:56:24am

re: #383 Occasional Reader

I believe the current contingency plan calls for Obama to strike a thoughtful pose, with an endearingly furrowed brow.

While reading from his teleprompter, what an empty suit.

539 Kenneth  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:56:25am

Democracy in Iran? That's above my paygrade...

540 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:56:31am

re: #520 Walter L. Newton

Yes, you are making fun of them. In the least, they are trying. You remind me of someone who says they are helping someone by calling them names so they understand where you are coming from.

You're playing the little "I'm so rational" drama to the point that the only thing you accomplish is sounding crass, cold and uncaring.

It's not working. Try another tact.

Try looking up "tact" and "tack".

541 jcbunga  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:56:34am

A question for the historians...would anyone be protesting if Iraq had not just had it's elections?

What's the record for Iranian street protests through, say 2003?

Just sayin'.

Ripples.

542 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:56:36am

re: #528 MrPaulRevere

Yeah, I think you are mocking them. Have you ever considered changing your nickname to 'Cato the Elitist'?

Cato the Condescending Prick is also appropriate.

543 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:56:44am

RT @StopAhmadi Young man attacked from behind (picture) [Link: bit.ly...] #iranelection

544 [deleted]  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:56:53am
545 turn  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:56:56am

re: #538 turn

dang, this thread literally took off.

546 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:57:28am

re: #540 Cato the Elder

Try looking up "tact" and "tack".

Try looking up neenrer, and then cram it up your ass. Simple enough for you?

547 alegrias  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:57:29am

re: #537 jcm

Arabs and Persians, long time animus.

* * * *
Smart Freedom loving Arabs & Persians can agree their mutual enemy is terrorist leaders.

548 Kenneth  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:57:31am

re: #383 Occasional Reader

I believe the current contingency plan calls for Obama to strike a thoughtful pose, with an endearingly furrowed brow.

I had a cocker spaniel who did that. He so was adorable!

549 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:57:37am

re: #540 Cato the Elder

Just fucking piss off.

550 jcbunga  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:57:39am

re: #545 turn

dang, this thread literally took off.


Yes, and I'm stuck at work and can't open any of the links!

551 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:57:42am

re: #516 MarineVet

Seen Winston's just up-thread, quoted below:

re: #497 winston06

Yes... this is anti-regime protest. Not Reform vs Hardliners any more

552 Macker  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:58:00am

re: #521 winston06

I haven't spoken out on Iran because I have no qualifications to speak on major issues. Obama's excuse is the same. #iranelection

Then again, he isn't qualified to be C(r)ook County's Dog Catcher either.

553 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:58:12am

re: #493 Cato the Elder

You think I'm making fun of them? It's a tragedy.

There will be more than a little of that, no matter the outcome.

554 pink freud  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:58:22am

re: #506 Flyers1974

I don't know why. We both know Obama has made many statements before. He has that ability. Doesn't unpreparedness seem like one of the least likely explanations? Along with the other reasons i'm hearing, like "narcissism."

Mush. Mouth.

555 alegrias  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:58:28am

re: #537 jcm

Arabs and Persians, long time animus.

* * * *
Americans & Iraqis, now long time allies. (it's pretty simple when you want to fight terrorist enemies.)

556 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:58:29am

from IranElection 09:
Translation RT @iranbaan Intelligence calling homes and play recording saying "u participated in today's march, don't repeat" #iranelection

557 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:58:47am

re: #534 2senseplain

What exactly makes you think they wouldn't?

Where did I say I thought they would or wouldn't? I didn't say either way- so don't put words in my mouth.

558 Fart Knocker  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:58:58am

re: #490 Macker

If you're saying that Оба́ма is an analyst, I couldn't agree with you more!


No No, he said anal cyst!

559 jcm  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:59:02am

re: #536 Cato the Elder

Good luck to the Iranians.

Bad cess to the know-it-alls of the 101st Keyboard Brigade.

May light prevail over darkness.

See you all tonight.

Fuck luck.

Your realism and light leaves millions in bondage.

560 DisturbedEma  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:59:03am

re: #486 Gus 802

Oh look, a statement from a Obama State Department Spokesman:

US 'troubled' over Iran election


Deeply troubled.
We're concerned.
Deeply troubled.
Words, just words.
Obama shave.

Way to take a stand there.....stupid official statements. . .they lack the warmth of TOTUS. . .wait. . .

561 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:59:05am

re: #556 reine.de.tout

ditto

562 Flyers1974  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:59:25am

re: #515 Spare O'Lake

Can anyone seriously doubt that POTUS Obama has caused the unrest in Iran with his wonderful speeches?
Long live the Shah!
Long live Shah Obama!
*reaches for another bottle*

Actually, the current Republican line is that if Obama were only smart enough/brave enough, etc... to give a speech, he would be helping overthrow the Mullahs.

563 alegrias  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:59:30am

re: #539 Kenneth

Democracy in Iran? That's above my paygrade...

* * *
Obama and democrats thought--still think-- democracy was WRONG for Iraq.

564 turn  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:59:34am

re: #385 Barflytom

It would be nice to believe that our Dear Leader is refraining from weighing in on the side of the protesters after making a carefully calculated decision not to interfere prematurely and give the Khamenei / Ahmadinejad regime ammunition to blame the unrest on a foreign plot.

Unfortunately, it's probably because he simply doesn't have a clue what to do or say. What does the teleprompter think ?

Like ping pointed out there is undoubtedly a plan. Whether O acts on it with other than another call to unclench their fist is an entirely different question though.

565 pink freud  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:59:35am

re: #518 reine.de.tout

Reposting here, for anyone who may have missed it last thread.

Somebody's facebook album, 20 photos (go to "next" upper right of the photo box to scroll through them).

Yeoman's work Reine! Thank you! You too, Winston!

566 Silvergirl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:59:35am

re: #540 Cato the Elder

Try looking up "tact" and "tack".

Try worrying less about correct usage, and decide if "tact" also might apply to your postings.

567 SixDegrees  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 11:59:46am

re: #22 Cato the Elder

Repost from last thread (I always seem to come in at the end):

To all those blaming the administration for not doing or saying enough in this situation:

It is in the nature of revolutions (when they go beyond protests that can be put down with a show of force within a week) that they must be fought and won by the revolutionaries.

With a vast imbalance of power in place (cell phones and Twitter against machine guns and tanks), cheering on the side that is likely to lose, no matter how righteous it makes you feel, is likely to make it worse for the losers in the end. They can then be accused of being foreign agents as well as dissidents. See Western reactions to Tienanmen sitch as it was ongoing.

Even if the would-be revolutionaries gain the upper hand, they will have to keep it. What are we going to do, parachute in the 82nd Airborne?

Grow up.

I tend to agree. Right now, any statements made by the West play directly into the hands of the ruling thugocracy, and make it all too easy for them to blame unrest on interference and clamp down on it hard using that as a handy excuse. Best to simply keep it zipped for the moment.

568 DisturbedEma  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:00:10pm

re: #528 MrPaulRevere

Yeah, I think you are mocking them. Have you ever considered changing your nickname to 'Cato the Elitist'?

up!

569 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:00:12pm

Pics from tehran

[Link: news.gooya.com...]

570 brookly red  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:00:16pm

re: #556 reine.de.tout

from IranElection 09:
Translation RT @iranbaan Intelligence calling homes and play recording saying "u participated in today's march, don't repeat" #iranelection

/to schedule your beating please press 1 now...

571 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:00:42pm

re: #549 FurryOldGuyJeans

Just fucking piss off.

No.

572 [deleted]  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:00:47pm
573 jcm  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:00:54pm

re: #555 alegrias

* * * *
Americans & Iraqis, now long time allies. (it's pretty simple when you want to fight terrorist enemies.)

Another thing to consider, but two democratic countries will quickly find more in common than age old animus.

574 [deleted]  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:00:58pm
575 haakondahl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:01:11pm

re: #466 Sunlight

What's better about him? (I really do want to know)

All I know is that he ran as a moderate, the regime can't stand him, and behind him, people are rallying in the largest pro-Democracy movement since 1979. That one didn't turn out so well, so I give the people of Iran enough credit to have learned many lessons, at least a few of which will be implemented. But without the opposition surviving, but literally and as a movement, there is nothing. We already have a big ugly loss on our hands, and haven't seen fit to get serious about it in thirty years. Now would seem to be the time. You don't get guarantees--you get opportunities, and when they come along, either you take a chance or you surrender.

/soapbox

576 KenJen  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:01:23pm

re: #506 Flyers1974

I don't know why. We both know Obama has made many statements before. He has that ability. Doesn't unpreparedness seem like one of the least likely explanations? Along with the other reasons i'm hearing, like "narcissism."

Unpreparedness was the first thing that popped into my head. He was unprepared to be President.

577 alegrias  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:01:26pm

re: #556 reine.de.tout

from IranElection 09:
Translation RT @iranbaan Intelligence calling homes and play recording saying "u participated in today's march, don't repeat" #iranelection

* * * *
Big Mullah is watching.
Police State.

Is Christiane Amanpour reporting this? Or is she ok with it...like Pres. Obama says to people he doesn't like, "Don't think we aren't keeping score, brother"

578 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:01:27pm

re: #516 MarineVet

If you're that pessimistic, you clearly know that death is inevitable for all of us.

So why resist?

I'm really tired of people saying they know the outcome, because they don't.

579 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:01:30pm

re: #572 buzzsawmonkey

Probably won't get top of the day...but, DING!

580 turn  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:01:36pm

re: #395 reine.de.tout

From StopAhmadie:
NEWS: Ppl spreading the word: tomorrow gathering at ValiAsr Sq. 5 PM #iranelection

from Iran09:
RT: @oxfordgirl: shots several areas N Tehran - basij may be trying stop ppl getting to Tajrish demo tonight #iranelection #Tehran #Azadi

Maybe they will come back tomorrow armed, Molotov cocktails and all.

581 Kenneth  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:01:45pm

re: #565 pink freud

Yeoman's work Reine! Thank you! You too, Winston!

Yeoman Reine!

582 Gus  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:01:46pm

re: #507 thedopefishlives

This is the State Department, so don't expect too much. That being said, also realize that State talks in diploma-speak, which is a bit of a different language with lots of nuance. The State Department is basically doing the equivalent of calling a bluff here; they're not throwing down the gauntlet, but they're letting the other guy (in this case, the mullahs) know that they know what's going on. Treading cautiously, as it were.

Yet when Bush was president it wasn't considered "diplomat-speak." Instead it was:

Bush State Department Ignored Iraqi Gay Murders
Bush State Department Historian Dumped
Democrats Grill Bush State Department
Bush State Department threat to the Foreign Office
Bush State Department Cover-Up

More here: [Link: www.google.com...]

Suddenly it is not considered "The Obama State Department."

583 pingjockey  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:01:48pm

re: #567 SixDegrees
So RWR should've kept his yap shut and never said "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall"?

584 Baier  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:01:49pm
People carry the body of a man allegedly shot by pro-government militia near a rally supporting leading opposition presidential candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi in Tehran, Iran, Monday, June 15, 2009. Hundreds of thousands gathered in Azadi (Freedom) square in Tehran to support Mousavi, who claims there was election fraud in Friday's vote


To this photo : [Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Would it be "allegedly" if it was the IDF was involved?

585 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:01:59pm

re: #536 Cato the Elder

Bad cess to the know-it-alls of the 101st Keyboard Brigade.

Ah, so you're off to confront the thugs in the streets of Tehran, right?

586 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:02:08pm

re: #567 SixDegrees

I tend to agree. Right now, any statements made by the West play directly into the hands of the ruling thugocracy, and make it all too easy for them to blame unrest on interference and clamp down on it hard using that as a handy excuse. Best to simply keep it zipped for the moment.

And, if not a SINGLE statement was made by a SINGLE person in the West, politician, or even the man in the street, do you think that it would STOP the Iranian government from claiming that the riots and protests were anything but instigated by the West?

Get real please.

587 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:02:34pm

re: #542 FurryOldGuyJeans

Cato the Condescending Prick is also appropriate.

Guys, everyone is getting more and more upset right now. Please recall, we are not the people getting shot at, and we have the luxury of staying calm. I don't think anyone here is pro-mullah, anti-freedom, or wishes anything but the best for the people in the streets. Everyone, deep breaths.

588 alegrias  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:02:48pm

FOX reporting journalists are getting kicked out of Iran.

589 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:02:53pm

number of injured ppl rising

590 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:03:25pm

re: #588 alegrias

FOX reporting journalists are getting kicked out of Iran.

All or just some?

591 jcm  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:03:31pm

re: #562 Flyers1974

Actually, the current Republican line is that if Obama were only smart enough/brave enough, etc... to give a speech, he would be helping overthrow the Mullahs.

It's an accurate statement.

Obama is taking a pass on supporting freedom.

592 subsailor68  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:03:35pm

Wow, just saw the picture of the Iranian women with the cops (thugs) beating the male protesters.

The women were running TOWARD the thugs, not away.

What an amazing example of courage!

593 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:03:51pm

re: #523 SanFranciscoZionist

I fear they may be able and willing to kill half of Tehran.

They may be willing. Able?

The question is, if they go for slaughter, what does the Army do?

594 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:04:10pm

re: #584 Baier

To this photo : [Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Would it be "allegedly" if it was the IDF was involved?

It wouldn't be "allegedly" even if Hamas clearly shot someone but claimed it was the Israelis; they'd still blame the Joooos.

595 alegrias  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:04:19pm

re: #590 Nevergiveup

All or just some?

****
"foreign journalists have been politely asked to leave" per Shepherd Smith of Fox News.

596 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:04:22pm

Wise words from Michael Rubin:

He(Obama) should judge Iran by its actions, not its words. He should verify, but he should never trust. He should not project, but recognize that the Islamic Republic’s strategists do not think like him. He should stop conflating advocacy with analysis.

Given the tone of the election 'debates'(if that's what they could be called), the buying of votes by various candidates, talk and accusations of voter fraud, election manipulation prior to the elections, Supreme Fubar's quick election judgement; I'm inclined to suspect we're about to see not a revolution but a purge.

...but we'll see...said the blind man.

597 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:04:25pm

rt @iranbaan says shots fired in northern #Tehran

598 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:04:57pm

re: #595 alegrias

****
"foreign journalists have been politely asked to leave" per Shepherd Smith of Fox News.

Thanks- I just turned FOX on and heard that

599 alegrias  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:05:11pm

SKY news reporter Tim Marshall is reporting from Tehran in Iran, for Fox.

600 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:05:13pm

re: #589 winston06

number of injured ppl rising

(Updinged your continued reporting, of course, not the fact that a rising number of people are injured!)

601 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:05:30pm

re: #562 Flyers1974

And what exactly is the Democrat line right now? FUCKING SILENCE!

602 DisturbedEma  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:05:46pm

re: #591 jcm

It's an accurate statement.

Obama is taking a pass on supporting freedom.

Spitting on the unclenched fists. . .

603 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:05:48pm
Try looking up "tact" and "tack".

See Western reactions to Tienanmen sitch as it was ongoing.re: #540 Cato the Elder

Try looking up the correct spelling of what you're pontificating about

Tiananmen

604 jcm  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:05:52pm

re: #587 SanFranciscoZionist

Guys, everyone is getting more and more upset right now. Please recall, we are not the people getting shot at, and we have the luxury of staying calm. I don't think anyone here is pro-mullah, anti-freedom, or wishes anything but the best for the people in the streets. Everyone, deep breaths.

No, just let the Mullahs have their way because doing anything is too hard.

605 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:05:55pm

re: #587 SanFranciscoZionist

Guys, everyone is getting more and more upset right now. Please recall, we are not the people getting shot at, and we have the luxury of staying calm. I don't think anyone here is pro-mullah, anti-freedom, or wishes anything but the best for the people in the streets. Everyone, deep breaths.

And repeat.

606 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:05:56pm

re: #593 Dianna

They may be willing. Able?

The question is, if they go for slaughter, what does the Army do?

No idea. I'm way out of my depth in terms of Probably Iranian Behavior right now.

607 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:05:59pm

re: #540 Cato the Elder

Try looking up "tact" and "tack".

Way to ignore the point!

608 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:06:00pm

re: #592 subsailor68

Wow, just saw the picture of the Iranian women with the cops (thugs) beating the male protesters.

The women were running TOWARD the thugs, not away.

What an amazing example of courage!

Vivan las protest babes persas!

609 haakondahl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:06:21pm

re: #505 Wendya

I know Sullivan can be a real prick but he has some interesting updates:

[Link: andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com...]

Even after Hewitt & Sullivan's falling out, Hewitt is linking to Sullivan's site calling his coverage comprehensive. This is why I like these guys--right when it counts, principles above pettiness.

610 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:06:21pm

re: #606 SanFranciscoZionist

No idea. I'm way out of my depth in terms of Probably Iranian Behavior right now.

PROBABLE Iranian Behavior. Sorry.

611 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:06:29pm

re: #595 alegrias

****
"foreign journalists have been politely asked to leave" per Shepherd Smith of Fox News.

I think that is terrible but on a personal note, I would have paid big money to tell Christine Anapour that.

612 subsailor68  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:06:40pm

re: #595 alegrias

****
"foreign journalists have been politely asked to leave" per Shepherd Smith of Fox News.

Not surprising. What is surprising is the government thinking that will shut things down when there are courageous folks like Winston06 there with twitter, and all the folks with cell phone cameras.

The truth will still get out.

613 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:07:06pm

re: #607 Dianna

Way to ignore the point!

some aren't as infallible as they think they are (see my 603)

614 Gus  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:07:07pm

re: #591 jcm

It's an accurate statement.

Obama is taking a pass on supporting freedom.

Never doubt The One.

He takes a pass and gets a pass.

And when one makes a statement it is ridiculed as a Republican talking point.

Then they apply a Howard Zinn philosophy while blaming Bush."

615 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:07:09pm

re: #540 Cato the Elder

Try looking up "tact" and "tack".

You might to refresh yourself on the meaning of "tact" too, while we're at it, Cato.

616 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:07:20pm

I am dizzy & tired myself. Cant imagine how my brothers/sisters in Iran must feel tonight

617 right_on_target  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:07:41pm

re: #574 Iron Fist

This is the only real hope that we won't have a nucler war in that area of the world (and probably not limited to that area of the world) in the reatively near future. We have to wish them success, but I am not particularly hopeful. For one thing, thse rios seem random. That is often the case with riots, especially when they are riots brought to us by the Left. These kind of riots may make the rioters feel good (and line their pocklets with a little stolen gold), but they accomplish. More effective riots would be trying to grab control of the trains and airport (control who comes in and who's allowed to leave), and the broadcast and print media. If they can't control what is going out by sattillite, dynamite the dishes.

This is war, if they want their freedom. They can't quibble ofver a few unjustly slain or a baby seal, trapped by its theather

War is harsh. It is the second most terrible thing in the world. The only thing worse is when armed and capable men and women lay down their arms and surrender.

___________________________________________
It's hard to do those things without a "Second Amendment" in their constitution.

618 Flyers1974  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:08:01pm

re: #544 buzzsawmonkey

So have you seen the explanations given for Obama's failure to make a simple statement? You're alright with those explanations?

619 alegrias  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:08:14pm

re: #601 FurryOldGuyJeans

And what exactly is the Democrat line right now? FUCKING SILENCE!

* * * *
Nancy Pelosi is busy looking for the right Hermes/Armani headscarf with which to please Ahmedinejad by videoconference.

Pelosi's friends with his buddy Bashir Al Assad, like John Kerry and the Florida astronut, Ben Nelson, who visit Iran's best buddy, Syria often.

(Obama's working on the healthcare "CRISIS" right now)

620 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:08:24pm

re: #540 Cato the Elder

Try looking up "tact" and "tack".

Besides, what the fuck is wrong with "tact," which is exactly what I meant...

"synonyms tact, address, poise, savoir faire mean skill and grace in dealing with others. tact implies delicate and considerate perception of what is appropriate . address stresses dexterity and grace in dealing with new and trying situations and may imply success in attaining one's ends . poise may imply both tact and address but stresses self-possession and ease in meeting difficult situations

621 Kenneth  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:08:28pm

Coup d'État: A Practical Handbook
by Edward N. Luttwak

I wonder if it's available in a Farsi edition?

622 poteen  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:08:36pm

We have large military contingents on either side of Iran. It would be foolish to assume we don't have intelligence assets inside who may or may not be aiding the demonstrators.The mullocracy is in trouble. I would rather the Iranian gov't make the critical mistakes. than Obama.. Any symbolic gesture would only prove he's inept and damage the opposition.
This is where, if he plays it right, he gets credit for what Bush started.

And Cato, re; "grow up".
That little pony you're on isn't a high horse to anyone else here.

623 haakondahl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:08:56pm

re: #514 Gus 802

Silence = Death
So the leftists say.
Unless of course the silent one,
Is a Democrat we're forced to praise.

//

Shhhhhh...

624 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:09:18pm

re: #613 sattv4u2

some aren't as infallible as they think they are (see my 603)

re: #615 Occasional Reader

You might to refresh yourself on the meaning of "tact" too, while we're at it, Cato.

re: #607 Dianna

Way to ignore the point!

And as I posted a few comments above, I meant "tact" just like I wrote it...

synonyms tact, address, poise, savoir faire mean skill and grace in dealing with others. tact implies delicate and considerate perception of what is appropriate . address stresses dexterity and grace in dealing with new and trying situations and may imply success in attaining one's ends . poise may imply both tact and address but stresses self-possession and ease in meeting difficult situations

625 Flyers1974  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:09:22pm

re: #614 Gus 802

Never doubt The One.

He takes a pass and gets a pass.

And when one makes a statement it is ridiculed as a Republican talking point.

Then they apply a Howard Zinn philosophy while blaming Bush."

Who on this site is blaming Bush?

626 [deleted]  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:09:23pm
627 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:09:25pm

re: #574 Iron Fist

War is harsh. It is the second most terrible thing in the world. The only thing worse is when armed and capable men and women lay down their arms and surrender.

"'Nothing worse than war'?! Slavery is worse than war. Dishonor is worse than war."

-Winston to the Churchill

628 yma o hyd  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:09:25pm

re: #612 subsailor68

Not surprising. What is surprising is the government thinking that will shut things down when there are courageous folks like Winston06 there with twitter, and all the folks with cell phone cameras.

The truth will still get out.

Above all, the truth gets out much faster, and unfiltered - unlike the little snippets produced by the talking ehads of the MFM!

629 DisturbedEma  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:09:36pm

re: #616 winston06

I am dizzy & tired myself. Cant imagine how my brothers/sisters in Iran must feel tonight


{Winston06}

630 jwb7605  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:09:49pm

re: #588 alegrias

FOX reporting journalists are getting kicked out of Iran.

I was watching FOX last night, and a journalist said that nearly all reporters had a limited (5 day) visa which would not be renewed. The reporter was visibly frightened about the situation -- and that was yesterday.

631 alegrias  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:09:50pm

re: #612 subsailor68

Not surprising. What is surprising is the government thinking that will shut things down when there are courageous folks like Winston06 there with twitter, and all the folks with cell phone cameras.

The truth will still get out.

* * * *
I think Winston is NOT in Iran. Are you, Winston? Don't disclose if dangerous to yourself.

632 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:09:56pm

re: #620 Walter L. Newton

Besides, what the fuck is wrong with "tact," which is exactly what I meant...

"synonyms tact, address, poise, savoir faire mean skill and grace in dealing with others. tact implies delicate and considerate perception of what is appropriate . address stresses dexterity and grace in dealing with new and trying situations and may imply success in attaining one's ends . poise may imply both tact and address but stresses self-possession and ease in meeting difficult situations

Cato hoisted himself with his snark.

633 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:10:01pm

re: #616 winston06

I am dizzy & tired myself. Cant imagine how my brothers/sisters in Iran must feel tonight

Hang tough.

634 right_on_target  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:10:05pm

re: #584 Baier

To this photo : [Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Would it be "allegedly" if it was the IDF was involved?


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The use of "allegedly" is to protect publishers from libelous lawsuits. But, in this case, who would sue whom?

635 [deleted]  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:11:08pm
636 [deleted]  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:11:15pm
637 JustABill  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:11:26pm

Now might be a good time to return all those weapons and EFP mines Iran was so kind enough to send into Iraq....

638 yma o hyd  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:11:41pm

re: #616 winston06

I am dizzy & tired myself. Cant imagine how my brothers/sisters in Iran must feel tonight

I'd think they feel tired, scared - but very elated of the feat they have accomplished today. and I am certain that wil give them courage to go on, tomorrow.

Standing up against a brutal regime and not running away - courage feeds on courage.

639 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:11:46pm

re: #618 Flyers1974

So have you seen the explanations given for Obama's failure to make a simple statement? You're alright with those explanations?

What explanations are those? The ones you are pulling out of your ass?

640 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:11:52pm

re: #610 SanFranciscoZionist

PROBABLE Iranian Behavior. Sorry.

Very few of us are experts.

641 sattv4u2  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:11:54pm

re: #632 FurryOldGuyJeans

Cato hoisted himself with his snark.

Gotta hand it to him though. i've been slapping him down since middle of the last thread, and like a weeble, he keeps bobbing back up!

642 jcm  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:11:59pm

re: #622 poteen

We have large military contingents on either side of Iran. It would be foolish to assume we don't have intelligence assets inside who may or may not be aiding the demonstrators.The mullocracy is in trouble. I would rather the Iranian gov't make the critical mistakes. than Obama.. Any symbolic gesture would only prove he's inept and damage the opposition.
This is where, if he plays it right, he gets credit for what Bush started.

And Cato, re; "grow up".
That little pony you're on isn't a high horse to anyone else here.

We've neglected Farsi in the intell services. We may not have that many that could operate in country.

643 subsailor68  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:12:02pm

re: #631 alegrias

* * * *
I think Winston is NOT in Iran. Are you, Winston? Don't disclose if dangerous to yourself.

Ouch! I'd assumed Winston was there, but your second sentence is right on! Either way, I shouldn't have potentially put him in jeopardy. I'm sorry Winston.

644 Silvergirl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:12:04pm

re: #586 Walter L. Newton

And, if not a SINGLE statement was made by a SINGLE person in the West, politician, or even the man in the street, do you think that it would STOP the Iranian government from claiming that the riots and protests were anything but instigated by the West?

Get real please.

They already have, of course. From reine.de.tout's link:

Groups of Ahmadinejad supporters gathered outside French and British embassies in Tehran, protesting against what they consider to be foreign interference in Iran's affairs.

"We have gathered here to protest the hidden interference of the Brits and the world, who are trying to create chaos in our country," one protester said.

645 Flyers1974  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:12:17pm

re: #601 FurryOldGuyJeans

And what exactly is the Democrat line right now? FUCKING SILENCE!

But do you think the reason(s) for that silence are as simple as what we are hearing conservatives say?

646 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:12:24pm

re: #535 winston06

pics from Iran

[Link: www.boston.com...]


Wow ..... just WOW ... prayers for the good people fighting for a free iran.

647 poteen  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:12:32pm

re: #637 JustABill

Now might be a good time to return all those weapons and EFP mines Iran was so kind enough to send into Iraq....

//Think they have a restocking charge?

648 wrenchwench  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:12:36pm

re: #616 winston06

I am dizzy & tired myself. Cant imagine how my brothers/sisters in Iran must feel tonight

It's ok to take a nap. Long term, lack of sleep can be a problem. Take care of yourself.

649 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:12:38pm

re: #635 buzzsawmonkey

Kudos on your translating and relaying.

You are putting the Farsi in far-seeing.

It would be easy tabriz through a Twitter message in Farsi, if only I knew the language. Alas, I'm not as shiraz I used to be of my ability to learn a new language.

650 haakondahl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:13:01pm

re: #328 pre-Boomer Marine brat

PBMb,

Where can I find his PayPal Link?

651 turn  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:13:12pm

re: #550 jcbunga

Yes, and I'm stuck at work and can't open any of the links!

Well at least you have a chance of keeping up then, you should see some of the pics. You just sit there seething, which is why I'm like 200 posts behind and very angry.

652 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:13:15pm

re: #642 jcm

We've neglected Farsi in the intell services. We may not have that many that could operate in country.

Oh, to be a fly on the wall inside the Mossad's HQ!

653 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:13:15pm

re: #624 Walter L. Newton

And as I posted a few comments above, I meant "tact" just like I wrote it...

synonyms tact, address, poise, savoir faire mean skill and grace in dealing with others. tact implies delicate and considerate perception of what is appropriate . address stresses dexterity and grace in dealing with new and trying situations and may imply success in attaining one's ends . poise may imply both tact and address but stresses self-possession and ease in meeting difficult situations

I was addressing Cato the Elder, who completely ignored the point to nit-pick; I got what you were doing, though I also thought it wasn't as clever as you thought.

I'm not as OCD as all that, you know.

654 Kenneth  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:13:18pm

re: #649 Occasional Reader

Qom off it!

655 experiencedtraveller  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:13:23pm

re: #261 Killgore Trout

Maybe next year I can go visit and meet them.

I'll go too. I always wanted to visit the ruins at Hatra and someone has to keep you out of a Persian prison...

656 MarineVet  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:13:42pm

I can just hope that it is! I have been disappointed in the politics of the middle east for so long its hard to believe. When the Berlin wall fell I knew it was going to happen....this is not as clear as I may believe but I would celebrate if it did happen.....long live FREEDOM wherever it may reside....

re: #551 pre-Boomer Marine brat

657 JustABill  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:14:04pm

re: #647 poteen

//Think they have a restocking charge?

We could add in some anti tank weapons as interest...

658 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:14:26pm

re: #653 Dianna

I was addressing Cato the Elder, who completely ignored the point to nit-pick; I got what you were doing, though I also thought it wasn't as clever as you thought.

I'm not as OCD as all that, you know.

Dainna, I wasn't coming back at you, just riding on your comment to explain my point.

But, really, it was clever :)

659 redstateredneck  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:14:32pm

re: #642 jcm

We've neglected Farsi in the intell services. We may not have that many that could operate in country.

It is just a shame as I know two young women fluent in Farsi, but have no interest or motivation to be translators.

660 alegrias  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:14:33pm

re: #642 jcm

We've neglected Farsi in the intell services. We may not have that many that could operate in country.

* * *
There's thousands of former Iranians living in the U.S.A. who could be serving their new country with their language & culture expertise.

661 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:15:19pm

Im hearing about wide-spread violence across #Tehran

662 Yashmak  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:15:37pm

Currently engaged in that oh-so-American passtime of rooting for the underdog here (Moussavi's supporters).

My heart goes out to them, and their struggle for a better way forward.

663 pink freud  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:15:46pm

re: #614 Gus 802

Never doubt The One.

He takes a pass and gets a pass.

And when one makes a statement it is ridiculed as a Republican talking point.

Then they apply a Howard Zinn philosophy while blaming Bush."

Yuri Bezmenov would be proud.

664 Fart Knocker  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:16:06pm

From Winston's twitter page

rt @iranbaan says ppl engaging police in Kerman, Zahedan & Bandar Abbas #iranElection

If this is true, it is certainly spreading beyond Tehran. Bandar Abbas is at the Straight of Hormuz, Kerman is is the southeast of Iran. Here's hoping it is spreading and strengthening.

665 capitalist piglet  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:16:13pm

re: #618 Flyers1974

So have you seen the explanations given for Obama's failure to make a simple statement? You're alright with those explanations?

According to The New York Times, the president "did not even convene any high-level White House meetings or conference calls on Sunday".

666 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:16:16pm

re: #645 Flyers1974

But do you think the reason(s) for that silence are as simple as what we are hearing conservatives say?

I don't care what the reasons are. That the administration is not saying anything speaks volumes of their lack of competence for being in power.

Not a SINGLE Democrat is speaking out about Iran. All we get is Domestic Agenda, Domestic Agenda, Domestic Agenda. They are acting as if they ignore the situation in Iran will make it all disappear.

667 Kenneth  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:16:36pm

re: #660 alegrias

In fact the CIA did take in many Farsi speaking applicants. The problem is, many of them turn out to be regime agents. They are trying to get in so they can spy on who among the Iranian ex-pat community is helping the Americans. Then the Iranian agents kill the "traitors".

668 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:16:47pm

re: #636 Iron Fist

They could kill half of Tehran. I think that would be the end of the regime, though. That's an awful lot of martyrs they would be creating and I'm not so sure the people would be willing to bear a regime like that.

669 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:16:53pm

re: #650 haakondahl

PBMb,

Where can I find his PayPal Link?

Here's the link to his web site.
(Takes a while to load a lot of little gifs, be patient.)

Look down just below the current post/s, just above the string of videos

670 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:17:58pm

re: #649 Occasional Reader

It would be easy tabriz through a Twitter message in Farsi, if only I knew the language. Alas, I'm not as shiraz I used to be of my ability to learn a new language.

OR, I love you in a distant, sisterly and internet kind of way, but today is not the time for puns. Even of the magnificent, virtuoso category.

671 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:18:30pm

re: #668 Sharmuta

They could kill half of Tehran. I think that would be the end of the regime, though. That's an awful lot of martyrs they would be creating and I'm not so sure the people would be willing to bear a regime like that.

During the Iran-Iraq war the Iranians fought to an 8 year standstill a technologically superior, tactically inferior though, foe.

672 Silvergirl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:18:36pm

re: #665 capitalist piglet

According to The New York Times, the president "did not even convene any high-level White House meetings or conference calls on Sunday".

Loved your link!

As blood flows on the streets of Tehran, the United States government remains as silent as a Trappist Monk. It is highly embarrassing when even the German government is showing more backbone than the White House. In contrast, the Germans, who shamefully happen to be Europe's biggest exporters to Iran, strongly denounced the crackdown on protestors, as have a number of European governments. Foreign Minister Frank Walter Steinmeier condemned the "brutal actions" against demonstrators, and summoned the Iranian Ambassador to Berlin in protest.

Fortunately there are some U.S. politicians speaking out against the White House's position, including former presidential candidate Mitt Romney and Senator Joe Lieberman. As Romney put it on ABC's This Week, "what has occurred is that the election is a fraud, the results are inaccurate, and you're seeing a brutal repression of the people as they protest." Lieberman didn't mince his words when he declared "through intimidation, violence, manipulation and outright fraud, the Iranian regime has once again made a mockery of democracy and confirmed its repressive and dictatorial character."

673 Pvt Bin Jammin  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:18:59pm

re: #588 alegrias

FOX reporting journalists are getting kicked out of Iran.


They just noticed?

674 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:19:08pm

GRAPHIC PHOTO

[Link: www.iranpressnews.com...]

person shot in the head

675 right_on_target  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:19:18pm

re: #660 alegrias

* * *
There's thousands of former Iranians living in the U.S.A. who could be serving their new country with their language & culture expertise.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Some of them are probably teaching at DLI-FLC !

676 poteen  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:19:28pm

re: #642 jcm

After 7 yrs. of their meddling in Iraq I'd like to think that's been fixed.. If the riots turn to rebellion we SHOULD already be preparing to arm the good guys.
30 years of Islamic economics is coming back to bite them, lets see how rabid the dog is.

677 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:20:01pm

re: #658 Walter L. Newton

Dainna, I wasn't coming back at you, just riding on your comment to explain my point.

But, really, it was clever :)

Nah.

"Try another tack, Cato the Elder; and, though it goes against your historical persona, a touch of tact." would have been better.

678 Macker  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:20:06pm

re: #563 alegrias

* * *
Оба́ма and Demo☪rats thought--still think-- democracy was WRONG for Iraq.

There, fixed that for ya!

679 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:21:40pm

re: #570 brookly red

/to schedule your beating please press 1 now...

I hate myself for updinging that ..... but it was funny

680 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:22:04pm

re: #666 FurryOldGuyJeans

They are hoping it will disappear. It's their only hope.

681 [deleted]  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:22:54pm
682 poteen  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:22:54pm

re: #649 Occasional Reader

It would be easy tabriz through a Twitter message in Farsi, if only I knew the language. Alas, I'm not as shiraz I used to be of my ability to learn a new language.

Stop yer 'wining'.

683 jcm  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:23:13pm

re: #660 alegrias

* * *
There's thousands of former Iranians living in the U.S.A. who could be serving their new country with their language & culture expertise.

'zactly.... In '79 I was still fluent in Farsi, so fluent I had a western Kurdish accent to my Farsi, not an American one. They'd see my blue eyes and be certain I was a foreigner but when I spoke they'd wonder where I got my blue eyes. Farsi you have to be a linguist or learn young, I learned young and on the street, not to have an accent.

684 pink freud  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:23:28pm

re: #666 FurryOldGuyJeans

I don't care what the reasons are. That the administration is not saying anything speaks volumes of their lack of competence for being in power.

Not a SINGLE Democrat is speaking out about Iran. All we get is Domestic Agenda, Domestic Agenda, Domestic Agenda. They are acting as if they ignore the situation in Iran will make it all disappear.

They were prepared and equipped to WIN the office. They weren't prepared and equipped to ADMINISTER from it.

685 jcm  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:24:39pm

re: #683 jcm

'zactly.... In '79 I was still fluent in Farsi, so fluent I had a western Kurdish accent to my Farsi, not an American one. They'd see my blue eyes and be certain I was a foreigner but when I spoke they'd wonder where I got my blue eyes. Farsi you have to be a linguist or learn young, I learned young and on the street, not to have an accent.

Didn't finish...

I volunteered my language skills in the AF.

They thought a better use for me would be learn Chinese.

686 Dianna  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:25:15pm

re: #685 jcm

Heading for the new thread.

sorry about the Chinese.

687 haakondahl  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:26:37pm

re: #674 winston06

GRAPHIC PHOTO

[Link: www.iranpressnews.com...]

person shot in the head

Not gonna look.
Winston, any word from Bam, Kahnuj, Sabzevaran, Iranshahr, Zabol?

688 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:26:54pm

re: #683 jcm

cool

689 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:29:39pm

Pics from tehran

[Link: news.gooya.com...]

690 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:29:53pm

re: #687 haakondahl

not yet

691 hazzyday  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:32:37pm

OT: I'll wake up every day and walk outside and I'll either think the day and all the people in it are crap and I don't like any of them. Or the day is great and my fellow citizens though they are all democrats are likeable.

I've learned it's better to be just a listener on the crap days until the tide turns.

692 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:32:55pm

I was just told by a friend in Iran that people are gonna be angry for a while to come and then they will escalate this to 'regime change' mode in due course

693 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:34:21pm

rt @persiankiwi: were attacked in streets by mob on motorbikes with batons - firing guns into air - streetfires all over town - roads closed; #Iranelection

694 winston06  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:35:47pm
695 kayfromcarroll  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:41:29pm

re: #466 Sunlight

What's better about him? (I really do want to know)

As another poster stated so eloquently up-thread, Moussavi is the overwhelming choice of a people who believed their leaders when they were told it was a "free and democratic election".

I work with an American citizen who left Iran at the time of the 1979 uprising. Her cousin lives in Tehran. They spoke on the phone yesterday. Her cousin said the city reminds her of the unrest at the fall of the Shah. Outrage, fear, and a Proud defense of democratic ideals.

Tehran is a very cosmopolitan city and has memories of a free and educated society - preRevolution. The country has a median age of 27, due to the Iran/Iraq war and the fact that many adults fled the theocracy.

Women push the envelope when it comes to the hijab. You'll see many that wear the covering so far back on their hair, that it must be fastened with hairpins! More than 2/3 of the physicians are women. These women in the streets protesting alongside the men is not surprising to me at all.

696 horse  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:43:34pm

re: #194 Cato the Elder

I understand the logic and rationality of your words, that there is very little the US government can do to positively influence the outcome, and much it could do to negatively affect the current environment. I agree with that assessment. However, I would argue saying nothing indirectly supports the side most willing to do anything to win, the side following a path where the ends justify the means, no matter how violent and vile.

Making a neutral statement where we hope all sides refrain from violence, where the ends do not justify the means, where we hope they can reach a fair and safe resolution of their differences, would provide moral support to the people of Iran without overtly backing one side or the other. It would seem to be a very Obama thing to do. Saying nothing is tactic approval of the violent actions under way.

697 Barflytom  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:46:26pm

re: #622 poteen

We have large military contingents on either side of Iran. It would be foolish to assume we don't have intelligence assets inside who may or may not be aiding the demonstrators.The mullocracy is in trouble. I would rather the Iranian gov't make the critical mistakes. than Obama.. Any symbolic gesture would only prove he's inept and damage the opposition.
This is where, if he plays it right, he gets credit for what Bush started.

Do you have any confidence that Obama is doing anything behind the scenes to help push the mullahs out ? I doubt it. He's not just inexperienced and narcissistic, he's also spectacularly ignorant of history - he has no knowledge of similar uprisings to draw on as examples of when or when not to intervene. If this turns out to be a lost opportunity to get even a slightly less obnoxious government in Iran, let alone a complete overthrow of the regime, it will be a huge tragedy.

698 Flyers1974  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 12:57:46pm

re: #626 buzzsawmonkey

Which explanations are you referring to--as opposed to those you have made up out of your own li'l head?

Here is a sample of the explanations : Obama likes current Iranian govenment; can't be bothered; waiting for polling results (several times); lack of morals; no faith in democracy; no qualifications; not prepared (several times); no plan; too busy with his narcsissistic agenda.

699 redstateredneck  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 1:00:22pm

re: #695 kayfromcarroll
The girls I know who lived in Tehran from the time they were around 7 and 8 to 15 & 16 would wear the hijab on the street and at school as required, but at home it was tight blue jeans and crop tops.

700 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 1:18:59pm

WALTER! DUCK!

701 quickjustice  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 1:19:01pm

What I don't know is whether the pro-democracy activists have aligned themselves with Mousavi for purposes of this election and these protests. "Young and affluent" certainly describes the pro-westerners in the Iranian population.

The regime is starting to murder and intimidate them. That means the clerics are scared they could lose control of the situation. Whatever the facts on the ground, my heart goes out to the peaceful demonstrators who hope for freedom and democracy in Iran.

702 Ateam  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 1:40:17pm

re: #452 winston06

rt @iranbaan says ppl engaging police in Kerman, Zahedan & Bandar Abbas #iranElection

re: #535 winston06

pics from Iran

[Link: www.boston.com...]

re: #689 winston06

Pics from tehran

[Link: news.gooya.com...]

Thank you so much for monitoring the events taking part in Iran.
Parcien lingo radio stationed on Israel, with hundreds thousends listeners in Iran, reported lately that riots spread all over the provinces. Mostly main cities and universities campuses.

703 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 1:43:15pm

This just in from Twitter via Medaura's husband.

Want to do something practical instead of just arguing about Iran or helplessly blogging the crackdown?

Try this: Distributed Cyber-War

Quote:

ALL PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD:

Please help us in a full-scale cyberwar againts the dictatorial brutal government of Ahmadinjead! Help Iranians to earn back their votes per instructions below:

Simply click on few of the following links (better too choose your selections from different categories); it opens the site in a new tab. It will not stop you from browsing but by sending a refresh signal to the target site will saturate it. By doing so, we can block Ahmadinjead's governments flow of information in many of its key components as shown below.

Please help us and yourself from this lunatic who will push the world to world war III.

Do it now.

704 Attaboid  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 4:14:29pm

June 15, 2004 - 5 year anniversary for a lot of people here.

In 1 h 27 min for my Birthday!

705 Attaboid  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 4:16:48pm

re: #704 Attaboid

Wrong thread. Sorry.

706 Altermite  Mon, Jun 15, 2009 7:40:41pm

re: #703 Cato the Elder

This just in from Twitter via Medaura's husband.

Want to do something practical instead of just arguing about Iran or helplessly blogging the crackdown?

Try this: Distributed Cyber-War

Quote:

Do it now.

If you want to do a better job, I recall some modified pic downloader programs that will do essentially the same thing in the background. Can't remember what they are called or where you would get them. All they do is download a picture over and over, and delete it from your file over nad over. I think some people on /b/ used to use them to attack sites.


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