Thousands of Mousavi Supporters March in Iran

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More huge demonstrations in Tehran today, as the mullahs seem to be starting to concede to the demonstrators.

TEHRAN (Reuters) - Thousands of supporters of Iran’s defeated presidential candidate Mirhossein Mousavi marched in Tehran on Tuesday following a disputed poll prompting the biggest street protests since the 1979 Islamic revolution.

On a fourth day of demonstrations since Friday’s election, witnesses said they headed — largely in silence without the accustomed chants — towards the state television building, despite Mousavi’s call for them to call off a planned rally.

In what appeared to be a first concession by authorities to the protest movement in the world’s fifth-biggest oil exporter, Iran’s top legislative body said it was prepared for a partial recount but ruled out annulling the poll.

It should be noted that Mousavi himself, although he has criticized Ahmadinejad’s Holocaust denial and confrontational politics, is not pro-Western — and he had a hand in starting Iran’s nuclear weapons projects. We shouldn’t expect things to change very much in Iran even if the election is overturned — an unlikely possibility.

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195 comments
1 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:33:23am

Where's Laxmatt?

2 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:33:24am

GO! FREEDOM!

3 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:33:24am

As I mentioned in a previous thread: Mousavi may well not be a "reformer" or "pro-Western" or whatever. But I'm sensing this is a bit deeper than that. The people want their voices to be heard, and once they've gotten a taste of the freedom and the power that democracy brings, they won't be able to get enough.

4 coquimbojoe  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:34:03am

It would be nice if Obama would pull a Reagan and come out clearly for the people and against the government as Reagan did with the Poles and Solidarity.

5 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:34:10am
We shouldn’t expect things to change very much in Iran even if the election is overturned — an unlikely possibility.


Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

6 Dianna  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:34:22am

Mousavi's on the verge of being discarded - or at least, becoming irrelevant.

This sort of thing has a momentum all its own, and he's a long ways behind it.

7 albusteve  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:36:11am

if this is about overturning the election I will be very disappointed...I think it has moved way beyond that

8 slokat  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:36:30am

At the moment this appears more of an economic revolt.

Or, at least the outcome might have more impact on the economy, than the ideology of Iran.

Tehran Tea?

9 Sean  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:36:30am

The real message comes from the young people in Iran; "We're not gonna take it."

10 Yankee Division Son  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:36:41am
'"The amplitude of protests in Iran is proportional to the election fraud", said french president Sarkozy

It's official, the French president has more guts then Obama. He said more in one sentence then Obama's entire statement on the issue.

11 eff  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:37:10am

Charles,

I'm curious to your thoughts on the columnists who report that the Iranian results ARE valid ([Link: www.politico.com...] and that we, as westerns, can't understand how so many people would vote for Ahmadinejad over Mousavi.

12 JohnnyReb  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:37:31am

re: #10 Yankee Division Son

It's official, the French president has more guts then Obama. He said more in one sentence then Obama's entire statement on the issue.

Oh god our country is doomed!

13 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:38:08am

A good photo to lead things off...

And the protest babes are making a comeback in protests around the world on behalf of the Iranians.

14 albusteve  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:38:56am

re: #6 Dianna

Mousavi's on the verge of being discarded - or at least, becoming irrelevant.

This sort of thing has a momentum all its own, and he's a long ways behind it.

exactly...go big or stay at at home...lives have been invested in this uprising and Mousavi is not the answer for leadership if it goes that far...he knows that...look for him to soften his theocratic stance if he's still around

15 dannyhiggs  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:39:13am

Well, tyranny isn't going to disappear overnight in Iran. But if Mousavi is at least a little less tyrannical as Ahmadinejad then at least they will be moving in the right direction, even if just at a snails pace. But it could show the Iranians that modernization and increased freedoms are within their hands.

16 LatinGent  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:39:23am

Glad charles cleared up Mousavis background. This falls under `be careful what you wish for`.

17 acwgusa  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:39:26am

re: #11 eff

Charles,

I'm curious to your thoughts on the columnists who report that the Iranian results ARE valid ([Link: www.politico.com...] and that we, as westerns, can't understand how so many people would vote for Ahmadinejad over Mousavi.

The Iranian votes are valid in the same way that the Iraqi votes under Saddam were valid.

18 quickjustice  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:39:53am

Mass demonstrations, if successful, take on a life of their own. You're correct about Mousavi, Charles, but I suspect that some of the demonstrators are former pro-democracy activists banned by the clerics who are taking the opportunity presented by the civil unrest to broaden its objectives.

That's what makes the situation so fascinating. By conventional logic, this is figurehead wannabe (Ahmadinejad) against figurehead wannabe (Mousavi). But if that's the case, why have the two sides raised the stakes so high, and so publicly. There's more to this situation than meets the eye.

I'm hoping that the clerics lose control, and the original plan (to replace one clerical puppet with another) is overrun by the Iranian people's push for freedom and democracy.

19 sattv4u2  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:39:54am

We shouldn’t expect things to change very much in Iran even if the election is overturned — an unlikely possibility

100% on both counts

I wonder what percentage of the protesters are there
A) in support of Mousavi
B) Against Ahmedinijad
C) Against the system in general

20 scottishbuzzsaw  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:40:16am
Illustrating Iran's sensitivity to world opinion, authorities on Tuesday banned foreign journalists from leaving their offices to cover street protests.

Yes, such sensitive souls...

/

21 Silvergirl  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:40:25am

re: #6 Dianna

Mousavi's on the verge of being discarded - or at least, becoming irrelevant.

This sort of thing has a momentum all its own, and he's a long ways behind it.

Agreed.

It's not the man himself, but the idea that he stood for a choice. A whittled down by the mullahs sort of choice, but when even that was denied . . . look out. That denial was too much to be borne.

22 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:40:29am

re: #11 eff

Charles,

I'm curious to your thoughts on the columnists who report that the Iranian results ARE valid ([Link: www.politico.com...] and that we, as westerns, can't understand how so many people would vote for Ahmadinejad over Mousavi.

And not once do those two authors ever ask the question "How could they hand count millions of votes, PAPER BALLETS, in under 24 hours?" The government was declaring MA as the winner in under 24 hours.

Don't wash with me.

23 Jewels (AKA Julian)  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:40:36am

I wonder if it will simply stop. the cries for blood in the streets of IRan might snowball...since the IRG have been defecting to the protestors, might be be seeing somthing bigger?

24 MikeAlv77  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:40:41am

re: #13 lawhawk

This might get me in trouble with Sharmuta (from the overnight thread) but those Iranian babes are smoking...

And I appreciate their minds also.. ( want to cover my bases )

25 Tumulus11  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:40:48am

. The brave young Iranians should dispense with Ahmadinejad and Mousavi.

Go for democracy and freedom.

26 rwdflynavy  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:40:59am

I agree with others that Mousavi will try desperately to reinvent himself as a democratic reformer. Not sure it is going to work for him though...

27 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:41:12am

Tweet:
RT: @duckdaotsu: PICS Pro-Mousavi Supporters today In Vanak to tajrish [Link: tinyurl.com...] [Link: tinyurl.com...] #iranelection

28 DaddyG  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:41:22am

re: #11 eff

I just can't believe he picked up that many votes in Broward county. //

29 pat  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:41:23am

Mousavi ran on women and ethnic issues. It was a popular platform. Even if the people of Iran were unsure of his sincerity, they voted for the message.

30 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:41:24am

re: #11 eff

Any article that favorably compares the Iranian electoral system to the U.S. Presidential election of 2000 is automatically suspect in my mind.

31 StillAMarine  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:41:36am

We know that there is strong protest to the election fraud in the capital city of Tehran. But we have no way of knowing the degree of dissent in other cities such as Shiraz, and in the countryside. Perhaps not hearing anything from outside Tehran is a sign that the unrest has indeed spread. ... wishful thinking on my part.

32 jcm  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:41:38am

re: #3 thedopefishlives

As I mentioned in a previous thread: Mousavi may well not be a "reformer" or "pro-Western" or whatever. But I'm sensing this is a bit deeper than that. The people want their voices to be heard, and once they've gotten a taste of the freedom and the power that democracy brings, they won't be able to get enough.

Was thinking the same thing, and you beat me too it.

DING!

33 JohnnyReb  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:41:41am

re: #16 LatinGent

Glad charles cleared up Mousavis background. This falls under `be careful what you wish for`.


I disagree. Once the people of Iran realize they can actually make a difference, they will finally be able to actually move towards real elections in the future. They wont back down from the government again if they win this one. Just my opinion.

34 dhg4  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:42:07am

re: #11 eff

Charles,

I'm curious to your thoughts on the columnists who report that the Iranian results ARE valid ([Link: www.politico.com...] and that we, as westerns, can't understand how so many people would vote for Ahmadinejad over Mousavi.

Here's Barry Rubin's The Face of Evil’s Public Relations’ Agents:

But Leverett presents this not as a stolen election but as a bunch of sore losers whining about their inevitable defeat.

What is especially humorous here—in a horrible sort of way—is that the extent of the theft is used as proof of its validity. “You can’t explain a margin this big with the kind of irregularities” Mousavi is citing.

Hey, right! It wasn’t minor vote tampering. It was wholesale fabrication.

35 quickjustice  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:42:10am

re: #8 slokat

The Iranian people have suffered economically from the mullahs' push for nuclear weapons, and their alienation from the west. A bad economy underlies some of this, but many of the kids are pro-western and tired of clerical repression.

36 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:42:13am

Iran's Clarifying Election
No longer can anyone pretend theocracy and democracy are compatible.

Then something unprecedented happened. Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who has the last word on all issues of national life, published a long statement hailing Mr. Ahmadinejad's "historic victory" as "a great celebration." This was the first time since 1989, when he became supreme leader, that Mr. Khamenei commented on the results of a presidential election without waiting for the publication of official results. Some analysts in Tehran tell me that the military-security elite, now controlling the machinery of the Iranian state, persuaded Mr. Khamenei to make the unprecedented move.

A detailed study of Mr. Khamenei's text reveals a number of anomalies. It is longer than his usual statements and full of expressions that he has never used before. The praise he showers on Mr. Ahmadinejad is simply too much. The question arises: Did someone use the supreme leader as a rubber stamp for a text written by Mr. Ahmadinejad himself?

37 Scion9  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:42:33am

Are any demonstrations of significant size in support happening here that anyone is aware of?

38 Silvergirl  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:42:39am

re: #9 Sean

The real message comes from the young people in Iran; "We're not gonna take it."

They need to be provided with the quote from Network to write on their signs.

39 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:42:49am

re: #16 LatinGent

Glad charles cleared up Mousavis background. This falls under `be careful what you wish for`.

No it doesn't. This falls under "we voted for someone else, and we still got screwed, so now, it's all out against the government."

These people are protesting the WHOLE system, not just wanting one idiot over the other.

40 zombie  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:43:10am
It should be noted that Mousavi himself, although he has criticized Ahmadinejad’s Holocaust denial and confrontational politics, is not pro-Western — and he had a hand in starting Iran’s nuclear weapons projects. We shouldn’t expect things to change very much in Iran even if the election is overturned — an unlikely possibility.

I dunno -- I think this is just the beginning. In many person-on-the-street interviews I saw, Iranians said they didn't really care about Mousavi himself as a candidate, they just voted for him as the only way to vote against Ahmadinejad. I think once Mousavi takes office, there will be much and greater pressure for further reforms, and then more and more, until the Mullahs are out of power.

Mousavi could essentially be like Gorbachev - - who was himself still a Soviet communist, yet who was the bridge which ushered in a new era and got rid of the old regime. It took several years for Gorbachev to do that, and it would probably take years for Mousavi to do it too (assuming of course the election results are overturned, which is obviously not on the agenda at the moment).

Mousavi is not "perfect," but he's a hell of a lot better than dinnerjacket.

41 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:43:15am

re: #16 LatinGent

Glad charles cleared up Mousavis background. This falls under `be careful what you wish for`.

It really does. Ahmedinejad and Mousavi represent two sock puppets of the regime. They would not have been permitted to run otherwise.

42 Lee Coller  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:43:29am

re: #4 coquimbojoe

It would be nice if Obama would pull a Reagan and come out clearly for the people and against the government as Reagan did with the Poles and Solidarity.

Barack Obama is no Ronald Reagan.

43 albusteve  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:43:58am

re: #39 Walter L. Newton

No it doesn't. This falls under "we voted for someone else, and we still got screwed, so now, it's all out against the government."

These people are protesting the WHOLE system, not just wanting one idiot over the other.

yes I truly believe so...in for a penny, in for a pound...we'll see

44 brookly red  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:44:00am

re: #39 Walter L. Newton

No it doesn't. This falls under "we voted for someone else, and we still got screwed, so now, it's all out against the government."

These people are protesting the WHOLE system, not just wanting one idiot over the other.

yup, they want their country back.

45 fish  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:44:00am
We shouldn’t expect things to change very much in Iran even if the election is overturned — an unlikely possibility.

I agree the "reform" candidate is going to uphold the party line. What makes this protest significant in my mind is not the likely outcome, but the fact that the Iranians are starting to stand up for themselves. This is how real change begins.

46 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:44:05am

re: #3 thedopefishlives

As I mentioned in a previous thread: Mousavi may well not be a "reformer" or "pro-Western" or whatever. But I'm sensing this is a bit deeper than that. The people want their voices to be heard, and once they've gotten a taste of the freedom and the power that democracy brings, they won't be able to get enough.

Up-ding.

If this succeeds, it becomes the beginning of the end for the theocracy.

47 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:44:11am

One Mullah sock puppet slightly less obnoxious than the other.

Wow, what a choice.

48 iLikeCandy  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:44:18am

re: #4 coquimbojoe

It would be nice if Obama would pull a Reagan and come out clearly for the people and against the government as Reagan did with the Poles and Solidarity.

It would also be nice if the Iranians had a Lech Walesa or even a Gorbachev to support. But it looks like business as usual in that part of the world, a choice among several evils.

It's heartening that the Iranians are passionate about their votes being counted, though. In fact I bet they're more passionate about that than they are about Mousavi.

49 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:44:19am

How tall is Mousavi?

50 Buck  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:44:22am

During the campaign Mousavis did seem to care what the popular feelings were. I admit that he might be a bright parrot, BUT if he can be swayed by popular opinion, then maybe this can be a change for the better.

51 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:44:25am

(Reposted from overnight thread)
===========================
I have written a brief speech for our President. Robert Gibbs (if he knows how to use the internet thingie) can clip the copy from here and easily download it into the TelePromPter.

This is part two of my speech to the muslim world. The events of the past few days have shown the world the true face of islamofascism. Those iranians yearning for a better life are mostly muslims. They have seen the example just to their west of democracy in iraq. And they like what they see. As you know, I opposed the war in iraq as a war of choice. And in retrospect I still believe that. But now the people living under repression in iran want their choice to be honored as well. We have paid a heavy price for our operations in iraq, but if the great Persian nation can freely dip their fingers in purple ink as their brothers and sisters in iraq have done, then the sacrifices of our brave soldiers and many brave iraqis from all islamic sects will be redeemed and the world will be a better place. May G-d bles the brave citizens of iran.

52 jcm  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:44:44am

re: #19 sattv4u2

We shouldn’t expect things to change very much in Iran even if the election is overturned — an unlikely possibility

100% on both counts

I wonder what percentage of the protesters are there
A) in support of Mousavi
B) Against Ahmedinijad
C) Against the system in general

It's beyond A and B, its on C. This has been brewing a long time, this election was the spark.

53 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:44:55am

re: MandyManners

How tall is Mousavi?

Would almost without a doubt have to be taller than Ahmadinejad.

54 LatinGent  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:45:05am

re: #33 JohnnyReb

I disagree. Once the people of Iran realize they can actually make a difference, they will finally be able to actually move towards real elections in the future. They wont back down from the government again if they win this one. Just my opinion.

Not so sure Reb. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutley. Mousavis true intentions are unclear. Agreed that change is in the wind.

55 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:45:18am
56 DaddyG  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:45:19am

Chicago style elections. Iran is becomeing more western every day.

57 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:45:26am

re: #41 SanFranciscoZionist

It really does. Ahmedinejad and Mousavi represent two sock puppets of the regime. They would not have been permitted to run otherwise.

It doesn't matter now, it has backfired, and the government is getting push back and the people are tasting democracy. That's what matters. No matter the outcome, the people are not going to forget this.

58 rightside  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:45:39am

re: #28 DaddyG

It was discovered that over 3.4% of Iranians cast votes for Pat Buchanan, due to hard-to-understand butterfly ballots. Several Iranian civil rights groups were here chanting, "disenfranchisement" and "hanging chad".

David Boies was not available for comment.

59 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:45:54am

re: #49 MandyManners

How tall is Mousavi?

He's married?

60 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:46:10am

re: Walter L. Newton

It doesn't matter now, it has backfired, and the government is getting push back and the people are tasting democracy. That's what matters. No matter the outcome, the people are not going to forget this.

I wish we here could learn again to savor the sweet taste of uncorrupted politics.

61 Macker  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:46:18am

re: #19 sattv4u2

We shouldn’t expect things to change very much in Iran even if the election is overturned — an unlikely possibility

100% on both counts

I wonder what percentage of the protesters are there
A) in support of Mousavi
B) Against Ahmedinijad
C) Against the system in general
D) Ron Paul

There, fixed that for ya!

62 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:46:45am

re: #58 rightside

It was discovered that over 3.4% of Iranians cast votes for Pat Buchanan, due to hard-to-understand butterfly ballots. Several Iranian civil rights groups were here chanting, "disenfranchisement" and "hanging chad".

David Boies was not available for comment.

That's must be the disenfranchised Jewish Iranian vote?

63 kynna  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:46:58am

re: #47 FurryOldGuyJeans

One Mullah sock puppet slightly less obnoxious than the other.

Wow, what a choice.

The key word is "choice".

64 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:47:19am
65 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:47:24am

re: kynna

The key word is "choice".

The mullahs make the choice, not the people.

66 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:47:34am

re: #16 LatinGent

Glad charles cleared up Mousavis background. This falls under `be careful what you wish for`.

Charles' comment was, I'm certain, for us.
These Iranians in the streets KNOW about Mousavi.
/lesser of two evils

67 quickjustice  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:47:36am

re: #62 Nevergiveup

The Iranian Jews all moved to Great Neck!

68 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:47:40am

re: #40 zombie

Agreed, but with one minor change:

Mousavi is not "perfect," but he's a hell of a lot better than different from dinnerjacket.

69 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:48:11am

re: #67 quickjustice

Deal.

70 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:48:16am

U.S. president Jimmy Carter, following a meeting with the father of the abducted Israel Defense Forces soldier, Noam Shalit.

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

because of course Hamas would never lie to you would they? Moron.

71 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:48:20am

Hello, mullah. Hello, fatwah.

72 medaura18586  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:48:29am

Exquisitely random:

This is Mousavi:

[Link: images.google.com...]

And this is Gabriele Niccoli, my Italian Professor at the University of Waterloo:

Image: mbellsB00622_Prof_Niccoli.jpg

[Link: images.google.com...]

Identical twins separated at birth? Note the almost identical frames of eyeglasses, and the eerily similar graying pattern of facial hair.

By the way, my professor is an awesome human being -- soft-spoken and very gentle soul, which is more than I can say for the "reformer" Mousavi.

But just how uncanny is the resemblance?

73 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:48:30am
74 Cato the Elder  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:48:30am

As I mentioned before, the distributed cyberattack recommended yesterday by Medaura's husband is working. Dinnerjacket's site "ahmadinejad.ir" currently reports "server is too busy".

My connection is slow as mud with 12 attacks running, but it's worth it. Going on 15 hours now and my ISP hasn't said peep.

75 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:48:51am

re: MandyManners

Hello, mullah. Hello, fatwah.

I am here in Camp Tehran.

76 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:49:01am

re: #67 quickjustice

The Iranian Jews all moved to Great Neck!

Boy do I know that!

77 Baier  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:49:05am

I don't think this is about one guy or another winning as much as it is about Iranians demanding democratic rights. When all the candidates are pre-approved by the Supreme Leader, how could it be about he candidate?

78 CommonCents  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:49:23am

re: #10 Yankee Division Son

It's official, the French president has more guts then Obama. He said more in one sentence then Obama's entire statement on the issue.

Despite his recent f-up at Normandy, I continue to think that Sarkozy has some good points (other than his wife).

79 Right mind left  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:49:31am

What I wonder about is why the international journalists were told to stay in their rooms and what Mousavi has been told to say. What was telling in this:

re: #36 Kenneth

Iran's Clarifying Election
No longer can anyone pretend theocracy and democracy are compatible.

A detailed study of Mr. Khamenei's text reveals a number of anomalies. It is longer than his usual statements and full of expressions that he has never used before. The praise he showers on Mr. Ahmadinejad is simply too much.


Sounds as if those in power have guns to many heads.

80 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:49:35am

re: #72 medaura18586

Unbelievable!

81 Macker  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:49:38am

re: #72 medaura18586

I daresay he'll become very popular around Halloween.

82 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:49:47am

re: #64 MandyManners

Nice hair.


i guess they still sell brylcream in iran

83 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:49:56am

Killers.

This is very graphic video so please be cautioned. A desperate group of people try to save a demonstrator who's been shot, to no avail.

I don't enjoy posting this kind of content. But it helps those of us living in relative comfort understand the gravity of the situation, and supplants the dearth of coverage we are getting now that the foreign media has been clamped down.

84 realwest  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:50:07am

Charles - I don't know and sincerely doubt if there will be any major changes should by some stroke of fate, Mousavi gets elected on the "recount". But I think a weaking of the Mullocracy in Iran isn't a bad thing. Once people get it in their heads that they CAN do something about their circumstances (e.g., over-throwing the Mullahs) who know's what could happen thereafter - perhaps even..........down the road a ways.............democracy?
Anyway, gotta go y'all - hope you have a great day and that I get the chance to see you all down the road.
And I'm hoping and praying that Dinnerjacket is replaced - and the Mullah's too - by the incredibly brave people protesting in Iran.

85 iLikeCandy  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:50:15am

re: #48 iLikeCandy

Woops, I always take too long typing, and by the time I hit Post everything I've typed has already appeared.

But maybe it's not too late to pose this question: Will the Iranian protesters acknowledge being heartened by the democratic process in Iraq, as made possible by George W. Bush? (assuming that's what's going on)

86 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:50:44am

re: #70 Nevergiveup

U.S. president Jimmy Carter, following a meeting with the father of the abducted Israel Defense Forces soldier, Noam Shalit.

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

because of course Hamas would never lie to you would they? Moron.

I pray he's right, and I want to kick him in the pants.

Odd combo.

87 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:50:46am

re: #74 Cato the Elder

As I mentioned before, the distributed cyberattack recommended yesterday by Medaura's husband is working. Dinnerjacket's site "ahmadinejad.ir" currently reports "server is too busy".

My connection is slow as mud with 12 attacks running, but it's worth it. Going on 15 hours now and my ISP hasn't said peep.

And what does this accomplish?

88 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:50:47am

Interesting... Meet Anousheh Ansari, the first astronaut of Iranian decent. She is an entrepreneur who flew as a private citizen on the Space Shuttle in 2006.

89 kynna  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:50:54am

re: #65 FurryOldGuyJeans

The mullahs make the choice, not the people.

I think that's the reason for the demonstrations. Hence my comment about "choice" being key. Even if it's the less bad guy, the ability to choose is the inspiration for eventual freedom.

90 DaddyG  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:51:25am

re: #71 MandyManners

Hello, mullah. Hello, fatwah.

re: #75 FurryOldGuyJeans

I am here in Camp Tehran.

Camp is very
entertaining
brute squads busting students' chops
cause they're complaining

91 brucee  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:51:45am
It should be noted that Mousavi himself, although he has criticized Ahmadinejad’s Holocaust denial and confrontational politics, is not pro-Western — and he had a hand in starting Iran’s nuclear weapons projects. We shouldn’t expect things to change very much in Iran even if the election is overturned — an unlikely possibility.

I agree but only to some extent. If Mousavi (or anyone for that matter) expressed any opinion other than the one sanctioned by Khaemeni on Nuclear issue he would have been vetoed out by Guardian Council like many others, on basis of opposing "valiye faghih".

In the end, drawing parallels to Obama's story, I believe what you do is more important than what you say.

The counter-argument to mine above would be that he would be powerless anyway then, even if became president. Khamenei will still rule.

That is not true anymore however, if presidency is taken back by storming the streets, instead of a regime-sanctioned "election". then president's will can also be imposed on Khamenei the same way. Khamenei is resisting because he knows if he gives up now, he'll be history. From that point if he says no, the next morning he'll have the masses at his door front.

Also, Iran doesn't necessarily need to become pro-west (majority of people already are). A non-confrontational Iran, which is about Iran, and not about Palestine and Hezbollah and Nuclear weapons is a good Iran.

92 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:51:49am

re: #76 Nevergiveup

Boy do I know that!

did they have their Bar and Bat Mitzvahs at "Leonards?"

93 Cato the Elder  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:51:51am

re: #87 Walter L. Newton

And what does this accomplish?

Click the link and decide for yourself.

Probably more than bitching about Obama.

94 medaura18586  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:51:57am

re: #80 MandyManners

Unbelievable!

re: #81 Macker

I daresay he'll become very popular around Halloween.

I dropped him (my prof) an email, to which he hasn't responded yet (may be on vacation/hiatus) but I have a feeling he'll crap himself, if he hasn't already, once he sees the pictures.

95 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:52:24am

re: realwest

Charles - I don't know and sincerely doubt if there will be any major changes should by some stroke of fate, Mousavi gets elected on the "recount". But I think a weaking of the Mullocracy in Iran isn't a bad thing. Once people get it in their heads that they CAN do something about their circumstances (e.g., over-throwing the Mullahs) who know's what could happen thereafter - perhaps even..........down the road a ways.............democracy?
Anyway, gotta go y'all - hope you have a great day and that I get the chance to see you all down the road.
And I'm hoping and praying that Dinnerjacket is replaced - and the Mullah's too - by the incredibly brave people protesting in Iran.

I think Khamenei tried to "reform" the system a bit by allowing the masses to think they had a choice between a hardliner and a firmliner. I am hoping he miscalculated as badly as Gorbachev did with his Perestroika.

96 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:52:33am
97 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:52:33am

I just get the inkling that Obama embracing freedom is akin to a vampire embracing garlic...

But that's just me...

98 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:52:45am

re: #85 iLikeCandy

Woops, I always take too long typing, and by the time I hit Post everything I've typed has already appeared.

But maybe it's not too late to pose this question: Will the Iranian protesters acknowledge being heartened by the democratic process in Iraq, as made possible by George W. Bush? (assuming that's what's going on)

To whom, and for what purpose?

99 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:53:00am

re: #86 SanFranciscoZionist

I pray he's right, and I want to kick him in the pants.

Odd combo.

Shalit's father said in the article he learned nothing new. It was a mistake for Shalit to even meet with Carter. No need to dance with the devil.

100 spinmore  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:53:03am

Maybe they could get Al Frankin to help with the recount.

101 brookly red  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:53:13am

re: #70 Nevergiveup

U.S. president Jimmy Carter, following a meeting with the father of the abducted Israel Defense Forces soldier, Noam Shalit.

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

because of course Hamas would never lie to you would they? Moron.

I don't know if it has been mentioned here, but Drudge has a story that someone tried to off Carter in gaza, a roadside "device" was found.

102 Rancher  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:53:28am

I can't see where this is going. A recount showing Mousavi didn't get trounced and then everyone goes home? If the election is overturned who will be made to pay for what everyone recognizes is massive voter fraud? The Interior Minister? Ahmadinejad? Someone will eventually loose his head for this fiasco.

103 Yankee Division Son  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:53:54am

Latest twitters are saying the US state dept. has asked twitter to delay maintenance because of Iranian election. Anyone read this on a credible source?

104 zombie  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:53:56am

re: #3 thedopefishlives

As I mentioned in a previous thread: Mousavi may well not be a "reformer" or "pro-Western" or whatever. But I'm sensing this is a bit deeper than that. The people want their voices to be heard, and once they've gotten a taste of the freedom and the power that democracy brings, they won't be able to get enough.

That's pretty much what I was trying to say!

105 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:54:16am

more wounded protesters...

106 DaddyG  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:54:24am

re: #101 brookly red

I don't know if it has been mentioned here, but Drudge has a story that someone tried to off Carter in gaza, a roadside "device" was found.

A rabid roadside rabbit? //

107 Dianna  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:54:34am

re: #102 Rancher

I can't see where this is going. A recount showing Mousavi didn't get trounced and then everyone goes home? If the election is overturned who will be made to pay for what everyone recognizes is massive voter fraud? The Interior Minister? Ahmadinejad? Someone will eventually loose his head for this fiasco.

I don't think it's going to stop with a recount and the installation of a properly vetted "president."

Just my thinking.

108 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:54:35am

re: Rancher

I can't see where this is going. A recount showing Mousavi didn't get trounced and then everyone goes home? If the election is overturned who will be made to pay for what everyone recognizes is massive voter fraud? The Interior Minister? Ahmadinejad? Someone will eventually loose his head for this fiasco.

I'm voting for that "honor" for it to be the Mullahs and Ahmadinejad.

109 J.D.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:54:49am

re: #103 Yankee Division Son

Latest twitters are saying the US state dept. has asked twitter to delay maintenance because of Iranian election. Anyone read this on a credible source?


I read a few minutes ago that twitter was speeding things up on account of the situation in Iran... I don't know where it was.

110 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:54:57am
111 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:54:57am

Tweet:
StopAhmadi: US State Dept. asked Twitter 2 delay maintenance so IR ppl can access "this important means of communications." #gr88

112 quickjustice  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:55:04am

re: #101 brookly red

Hamas reported that Hamas extremists tried to kill Carter with a roadside IED, but that they were foiled by Hamas moderates.

I find this implausible.

113 iLikeCandy  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:55:14am

re: #98 SanFranciscoZionist

To whom, and for what purpose?

To those who think about such matters, for the purpose of clarifying and elucidating the forces of the changes we are now seeing.

114 nyc redneck  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:55:16am

o is terrified of being wrong or saying the wrong thing.
his fragile ego won't let him risk making a mistake.
he is not comfortable dealing w/ deep human emotions.
it is obvious from his empty platitudes at a time when the whole world really is
caught up in hope and change.
LOL, but oddly, he has no idea what is appropriate in a situation like this.
so he waits.
for others to show him the way to appear compassionate.

115 Wendya  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:55:24am

re: #5 Kosh's Shadow

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

This isn't about Mousavi, per se. The election was the catalyst that may well spark something bigger in time.

116 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:55:28am

re: #102 Rancher

I can't see where this is going. A recount showing Mousavi didn't get trounced and then everyone goes home? If the election is overturned who will be made to pay for what everyone recognizes is massive voter fraud? The Interior Minister? Ahmadinejad? Someone will eventually loose his head for this fiasco.

My hunch says the "recount" is merely an attempt to buy time.
For what? ... I don't know.

117 J.D.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:55:48am
118 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:55:51am

re: #102 Rancher

I can't see where this is going. A recount showing Mousavi didn't get trounced and then everyone goes home? If the election is overturned who will be made to pay for what everyone recognizes is massive voter fraud? The Interior Minister? Ahmadinejad? Someone will eventually loose his head for this fiasco.

The recount is regarded as a ploy by the Mousavi people and the other opposition leaders, according to the BBC reporter in Tehran, this morning - ebfore all western journalists were banned to their offices and forbidden to report anything.

The reporter said that the re-count would presumably use the same 'counters' - thus Mousavi and the others alledgedly rhink its useless.

119 Eowyn2  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:55:54am

re: #9 Sean

The real message comes from the young people in Iran; "We're not gonna take it."

But Papa Amiadinnerjacket, I Vant to DANCE

120 The Optimist  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:56:16am

Obama and his Chicago team want to know how Amenidinajad pulled off massive voting fraud and is getting away with it. The politics of envy gone backwards. Moreover, Chavez will get a reputation as a top professor in fraudulent voting techniques.

121 dhg4  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:56:24am

re: #101 brookly red

I don't know if it has been mentioned here, but Drudge has a story that someone tried to off Carter in gaza, a roadside "device" was found.

And he still thinks that Hamas should be taken of the list of terror groups. Hamas is denying the attempt.

According to two eyewitnesses, including a 15-year-old boy, the bombs that were found were intended to hit Carter's vehicle as he exited Gaza. There is some suspicion that Hamas extremists linked to Al Qaeda may be behind the attempt.

The boy told FOX News he saw three Palestinian men planting bombs, four of which were later found near a mound less than a mile from the Israel-Gaza border. The boy said he notified Hamas police, who detonated the bombs and took the three men into custody.

But two Hamas advisers, in interviews with WorldNetDaily, denied reports that extremists were potentially behind such an alleged assassination attempt.

"Nobody in Gaza will touch this man," Hamas adviser Ahmed Yousef said. "He is on a noble mission. Everyone here respects him."

If they weren't denying it, I'd assume that they'd gone through the little charade to demonstrate that they could fight terror. Now I don't know what to think.

122 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:56:48am

re: #102 Rancher

I can't see where this is going. A recount showing Mousavi didn't get trounced and then everyone goes home? If the election is overturned who will be made to pay for what everyone recognizes is massive voter fraud? The Interior Minister? Ahmadinejad? Someone will eventually loose his head for this fiasco.

In the least, this gives the people of Iran a sense that they CAN effect the government, disrupt it, make the world look and listen, and it builds connections among the Iranian people.

It also sends a message to the mullahs that this CAN happen, and maybe next time, it will be stronger, bigger, better.

Flip side, yes the government will probably crack down even harder now, but, that's part of the price ones pays for this kind of fighting, fighting for freedom.

I can't think of too many fights for freedom that was simply won by talking about it.

123 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:56:52am
124 poteen  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:56:53am

re: #1 MandyManners

Where's Laxmatt?

/You skip breakfast or what?

125 J.D.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:57:02am
126 brookly red  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:57:03am

re: #112 quickjustice

Hamas reported that Hamas extremists tried to kill Carter with a roadside IED, but that they were foiled by Hamas moderates.

I find this implausible.

Hamas moderates? I think that translates to "it was a dud"...

127 quickjustice  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:57:12am

re: #114 nyc redneck

President Obama and his Administration are "terrified" that they'll pick the losing side in Iran. So they wait.

128 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:57:24am

re: venezuela lover

Obama and his Chicago team want to know how Amenidinajad pulled off massive voting fraud and is getting away with it. The politics of envy gone backwards. Moreover, Chavez will get a reputation as a top professor in fraudulent voting techniques.

It certainly doesn't look like the Mullah and Ahmadinejad got away with voter fraud. People aren't supposed to riot and revolt.

129 Dianna  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:57:39am

re: #116 pre-Boomer Marine brat

My hunch says the "recount" is merely an attempt to buy time.
For what? ... I don't know.

I'm willing to bet it's going to be pretty useless.

Think "Karensky." Think "provisional government." Think 1917.

130 itellu3times  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:57:45am

re: #14 albusteve

Mousavi's on the verge of being discarded - or at least, becoming irrelevant.

This sort of thing has a momentum all its own, and he's a long ways behind it.

exactly...go big or stay at at home...lives have been invested in this uprising and Mousavi is not the answer for leadership if it goes that far...he knows that...look for him to soften his theocratic stance if he's still around

Ha, I was going to ask Dianna just what she meant by that, but I think you expanded on it.

Even so - without Mousavi, what do they have? "Big" can't hold office, you need a body. "You can't beat something with nothing".

131 J.D.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:57:49am

re: #123 yma o hyd

Some people 'get it'!

You mean besides us?
;-)

132 Yankee Division Son  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:57:51am
133 Eowyn2  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:57:53am

re: #116 pre-Boomer Marine brat

My hunch says the "recount" is merely an attempt to buy time.
For what? ... I don't know.


to drum up treason charges on the protestors.

134 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:57:57am

re: #91 brucee

Also, Iran doesn't necessarily need to become pro-west (majority of people already are). A non-confrontational Iran, which is about Iran, and not about Palestine and Hezbollah and Nuclear weapons is a good Iran.

A truly democratic and free Iran by definition won't be pro-American. They will be their own country. Sometimes they will agree with America and sometimes, not.... just like, France or Germany. We can live with that. What the region needs is a non-terrorist Iran. And that means an end to the mullahs' evil regime.

135 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:58:00am

Hey lizards....I've been watching recent videos coming out of Iran and they are pretty disturbing. This one has a guy in a building shooting at people from a window above the street.


basiji shooting at people in tehran

136 transient  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:58:39am

The optimism I've been reading here was starting to affect me, but I have lost some enthusiasm since reading the following quote in the NYTimes:

“These people are not seeking a revolution,” said Ali Reza, a young actor in a brown T-shirt who stood for a moment watching on the rally’s sidelines. “We don’t want this regime to fall. We want our votes to be counted, because we want reforms, we want kindness, we want friendship with the world.”


If Ali Reza actually reflects the feelings of most of the protesters, they are wasting their time. If the election is reversed and Mousavi becomes president, very little will change. Khatami was also hailed as a "reformer," but very little reform passed muster with the mullahs. These young people are going to be gravely disappointed. But by then the momentum for real change will have been lost.

137 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:59:02am

re: Kenneth

A truly democratic and free Iran by definition won't be pro-American. They will be their own country. Sometimes they will agree with America and sometimes, not.... just like, France or Germany. We can live with that. What the region needs is a non-terrorist Iran. And that means an end to the mullahs' evil regime.

Afghanistan and Iraq sure show at times they are not US puppets like the Left thinks they are.

138 Eowyn2  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:59:10am

re: #120 venezuela lover

Obama and his Chicago team want to know how Amenidinajad pulled off massive voting fraud and is getting away with it. The politics of envy gone backwards. Moreover, Chavez will get a reputation as a top professor in fraudulent voting techniques.

Its easy breezy when everyone works for the same guy.
Kinda like the 'spontaneous' protests back in the seventies.
Where there's a whip, there's a way.

139 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:59:18am

re: #105 Killgore Trout

If the regime falls, there might be vengeance taken upon individual Basij.

/*prayers* that I be forgiven wanting to see videos of that

140 Cato the Elder  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:59:20am

Charles: Point taken. Good on you.

141 brookly red  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:59:38am

re: #125 J.D.

U.S. State Department speaks to Twitter over Iran

/something about a fairness doctrine...

142 Dianna  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:59:41am

re: #130 itellu3times

Ha, I was going to ask Dianna just what she meant by that, but I think you expanded on it.

Even so - without Mousavi, what do they have? "Big" can't hold office, you need a body. "You can't beat something with nothing".

I am waiting. Someone's going to emerge.

143 J.D.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:59:44am

re: #132 Yankee Division Son

Thanks for confirming.

Glad to do it!

144 quickjustice  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:59:48am

re: #123 yma o hyd

And need I say it? This is great PR for Twitter, which I've considered a useless technology to date. Tell me lizards-- am I wrong?

145 The Optimist  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:00:03am

re: #128 FurryOldGuyJeans

So the Mullah and Amendinajad are not good students. They will have to take the exam over.

146 itellu3times  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:00:03am

re: #134 Kenneth

A truly democratic and free Iran by definition won't be pro-American. They will be their own country. Sometimes they will agree with America and sometimes, not.... just like, France or Germany. We can live with that. What the region needs is a non-terrorist Iran. And that means an end to the mullahs' evil regime.

Well, define your terms. They can be "pro-American", and maybe moreso than France or Germany, and still be their own self and not a colony.

I'm not holding my breath on it or anything, just saying.

147 Eowyn2  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:00:29am

outcome of all this?

who's finger will be on the nuke button

the really really bad guy
or the
only so-so bad guy

148 Wendya  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:00:42am

re: #117 J.D.

Twitter delays down time to aid Iranian protesters

The State department and thousands of angry tweets.

149 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:00:52am

re: venezuela lover

So the Mullah and Amendinajad are not good students. They will have to take the exam over.

I don't want them to even remotely have the chance for a do over.

150 spidly  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:01:01am

re: #19 sattv4u2

We shouldn’t expect things to change very much in Iran even if the election is overturned — an unlikely possibility

100% on both counts

I wonder what percentage of the protesters are there
A) in support of Mousavi
B) Against Ahmedinijad
C) Against the system in general

as the big f***ng dick here, to who nobody should listen, I hope the mullahs declare Achmedinajad the victorthat they perpetuate revolution and not appease the Iranian people with the slightly less offensive Mousavi

151 itellu3times  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:01:10am

re: #147 Eowyn2

outcome of all this?

who's finger will be on the nuke button

the really really bad guy
or the
only so-so bad guy

Or, the people, which might be preferable after all. Might.

152 KenJen  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:01:20am

re: #72 medaura18586

Exquisitely random:

This is Mousavi:

[Link: images.google.com...]

And this is Gabriele Niccoli, my Italian Professor at the University of Waterloo:

[Link: mbells.ca...]

[Link: images.google.com...]

Identical twins separated at birth? Note the almost identical frames of eyeglasses, and the eerily similar graying pattern of facial hair.

By the way, my professor is an awesome human being -- soft-spoken and very gentle soul, which is more than I can say for the "reformer" Mousavi.

But just how uncanny is the resemblance?

There's a third
/

153 nyc redneck  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:01:21am

re: #127 quickjustice

President Obama and his Administration are "terrified" that they'll pick the losing side in Iran. So they wait.

for o, it's all abt. o,
first and foremost.
he is not a leader.

154 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:01:56am
155 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:02:10am
156 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:02:28am

re: #129 Dianna

I'm willing to bet it's going to be pretty useless.

Think "Karensky." Think "provisional government." Think 1917.

I agree. A blatant fraud.
As conceived by the regime, probably to give them time to bring in reinforcements.

157 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:02:44am
158 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:02:56am

Ahmadinejad's Coup:

Buoyed by his victory, Mr. Ahmadinejad has already served notice that he intends to pursue his radical policies with even greater vigor. At yesterday's rally, he promised to pass a law enabling him to bring "the godfathers of corruption" to justice. His entourage insists that former Presidents Hashemi Rafsanjani and Mohammed Khatami, and former parliament Speaker Nateq Nouri, all midranking mullahs, may be among the first to fall in a massive purge of the ruling elite.

It is too early to guess whether these dignitaries would march to the metaphorical gallows without a fight. Even if they fight, they are unlikely to win. Nevertheless, Messrs. Rafsanjani, Khatami and other targeted mullahs could influence others who wish to prevent a complete seizure of power by Mr. Ahmadinejad's military-security clique, which is determined to replace the Shiite clergy as the nation's ruling elite. Nor is it at all certain that Supreme Leader Khamenei would stand by and watch his power eroded by a rising elite of radicals.

Mr. Ahmadinejad also plans to seize the assets of hundreds of mullahs and their business associates for redistribution among the poor. In his speech at his victory rally yesterday he promised to "dismantle the network of corruption," and vowed never to negotiate about Iran's nuclear program with any foreign power: "That file is shut, forever," he said.

Ahmadinejad and the IRGC are attempting a coup not only against the people and the candidate they elected, but against he mullahs as well.

159 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:03:27am

re: #133 Eowyn2

to drum up treason charges on the protestors.

They can do that without a "recount".

160 brucee  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:03:44am

re: #112 quickjustice

Hamas reported that Hamas extremists tried to kill Carter with a roadside IED, but that they were foiled by Hamas moderates.

I find this implausible.

I'm afraid I do not understand what a "Hamas Extremist" means. It seems redundant to me, might be my English.

161 Dianna  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:03:54am

re: #156 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I agree. A blatant fraud.
As conceived by the regime, probably to give them time to bring in reinforcements.

Can they trust any reinforcements they bring in? They must be asking themselves that.

162 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:04:09am

re: #146 itellu3times

I'm just saying the US doesn't require that Iran be pro-American, just not a terrorist gangster state anymore.

163 quickjustice  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:04:12am

re: #154 Unbound

"American Conservative"? Pat Buchanan's paleocon rag? You think we should take advice from them?

164 Eowyn2  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:05:04am

re: #136 transient

The optimism I've been reading here was starting to affect me, but I have lost some enthusiasm since reading the following quote in the NYTimes:


If Ali Reza actually reflects the feelings of most of the protesters, they are wasting their time. If the election is reversed and Mousavi becomes president, very little will change. Khatami was also hailed as a "reformer," but very little reform passed muster with the mullahs. These young people are going to be gravely disappointed. But by then the momentum for real change will have been lost.

The report says that he was standing at the sidelines of the protest, I infered that he was not a member of the protest and therefore would not be a valid candidate to give the reasons of the thousands of protestors.

Can you imagine the pressures of the casting couch for Iranian thespians?

165 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:05:05am

re: quickjustice

"American Conservative"? Pat Buchanan's paleocon rag? You think we should take advice from them?

I think he leans towards Ron Paul for being a fount of wisdom.

166 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:06:10am

re: #163 quickjustice

That's a "tell" for sure.

167 medaura18586  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:06:44am

re: #154 Unbound

Please don't like to that paleocon anti-Semitic cesspool of a publication. You bring up the Hitler vs. Mussolini comparison yet link to a magazine that has long jumped the shark by comparing Hitler to Giuliani.

I'm no Mousavi enthusiast, but come on. That's bull.

168 brucee  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:07:05am

re: #158 Kenneth

Ahmadinejad's Coup:

Ahmadinejad and the IRGC are attempting a coup not only against the people and the candidate they elected, but against he mullahs as well.

That's why he's not getting any congrats from Ayatollahs in Qum.

169 medaura18586  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:07:18am

re: #167 medaura18586

Pimf: please don't link

170 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:08:06am

re: medaura18586

Pimf: please don't link

Like was as good an unintentional typo as they come. Not liking Pat is a wise idea. ;)

171 quickjustice  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:08:19am

re: #158 Kenneth

This is plausible. If Ahmadinejad wants to end the dominance of the mullahs and the Council, replacing them with himself, he threatens them sufficient to motivate them to fight back. The stakes are high for them, not for us.

If that's the case, look for civil war. The mullahs won't go gently.

172 spidly  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:08:27am

re: #155 FurryOldGuyJeans

Keep it up with the attitude and people won't listen to ya. Just say what you want and let the chips fall where they may.

I said what I meant, and cautioned that I might be a minority....... I hope that Achmedinejad is declared victor as it'll piss off the average Iranian. I fear that election of Mousavi will appease the Iranian revolutionaries and give an excuse for the western dhimmi faction to back off

173 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:08:27am

re: #154 Unbound

"It is highly entertaining (in a macabre kind of way) to see" ... someone so clueless about the tweet posts, and Winston06's statements from yesterday.

Nice strawman, there.
Unfortunate about the two crows sitting on its arm.

174 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:09:30am

re: #173 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Sorry for the partial quote, Charles.
Delete if you want to.

175 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:09:39am

As I posted in the previous thread, comments that are nothing but personal arguments between posters are going to be deleted. The majority of people reading these threads don't know or care about the issues in these fights, and reading the endless back-and-forth is a huge turn-off.

176 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:10:07am

re: spidly

I said what I meant, and cautioned that I might be a minority....... I hope that Achmedinejad is declared victor as it'll piss off the average Iranian. I fear that election of Mousavi will appease the Iranian revolutionaries and give an excuse for the western dhimmi faction to back off

Now that you said it without the 'tude I will respond.

The average Iranian is already pissed off, hence the revolution going on.

Or had you conveniently been ignoring that?

177 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:11:00am

re: #161 Dianna

Can they trust any reinforcements they bring in? They must be asking themselves that.

heh
.
heh
.
heh
.
Positively DELICIOUS !

178 brucee  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:11:55am
179 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:13:19am

re: brucee

BBC Goes Green!

Empty gestures are the way to go.

180 Right mind left  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:15:44am

While I am concerned about who is involved in Iran's nuclear program, I am also very much interested in how big a thug they are. What is known is that Ahmadinejad is a nut and involved in a manipulation, supported by other thugs like Chavez.

When Lebanon's Shi'ite militant group Hizballah was founded in 1982, Ayatollah Khomeini included Mousavi on the leadership council. I wonder what this means, how he was involved and what his ideologies really are fundamentally.

In reading the Wikipedia file on him, it looks like it has been sanitized and glorified. And there is a big disclaimer on the top of the file that it is in dispute.

Nowhere is the tidbit about his nuclear program involvement, it seems to be slanted as if he is a great man and reformer but obviously this has been painted by a disciple. I would not be surprised to see him assassinated here soon if Ahmadinejad sees him as a true threat to his taking control in all this chaos.

That the Germans and French are standing up but Obama is sitting makes me wonder if he has helped in some back room conversation to bolster confidence with Ahmadinejad or what.

I profoundly hope that the "hope and change" that the Iranian people tried to vote for won't end up in a bizarre slaughter as "control over chaos" is ordered by the authorization of coup type violence.

181 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:15:54am

re: #4 coquimbojoe

It would be nice if Obama would pull a Reagan and come out clearly for the people and against the government as Reagan did with the Poles and Solidarity.

Khamenei would love nothing more for the US to take a very vocal position, so that they could turn this into an Iran vs. The Meddling West / Evil Jews / Great Satan scenario, rather than being forced to admit to serious internal instability.

On the other hand, I would like for him to pointedly address the ban on foreign media, the internet and cellular blackouts, and so on.

182 spidly  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:16:06am

re: #176 FurryOldGuyJeans

Now that you said it without the 'tude I will respond.

The average Iranian is already pissed off, hence the revolution going on.

Or had you conveniently been ignoring that?

dunno what 'tude of which you speak...
at any rate it all sucks and It's something like being torn between a faustian and machiavellian option. i hate the implications for us and for them no matter who wins.

183 Altermite  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:20:17am

Mousavi would likely have more of an impact on domestic than foreign policy in Iran. Besides, the not-denying0the-holocaust thing makes him 10 times as good as the current gov.

184 Orangutan  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:24:15am

I know I am jumping in this quite late, but I was under the impression Mousavi was for (amongst other things) women's suffrage there.....or at least wider voting rights. I can only think including more people (who are interested in being aware) who are not being recruited to all-day chants and terrorist camps in the debate there would be a very good thing.

185 Altermite  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:24:51am

re: #180 Right mind left

While I am concerned about who is involved in Iran's nuclear program, I am also very much interested in how big a thug they are. What is known is that Ahmadinejad is a nut and involved in a manipulation, supported by other thugs like Chavez.

When Lebanon's Shi'ite militant group Hizballah was founded in 1982, Ayatollah Khomeini included Mousavi on the leadership council. I wonder what this means, how he was involved and what his ideologies really are fundamentally.

In reading the Wikipedia file on him, it looks like it has been sanitized and glorified. And there is a big disclaimer on the top of the file that it is in dispute.

Nowhere is the tidbit about his nuclear program involvement, it seems to be slanted as if he is a great man and reformer but obviously this has been painted by a disciple. I would not be surprised to see him assassinated here soon if Ahmadinejad sees him as a true threat to his taking control in all this chaos.

That the Germans and French are standing up but Obama is sitting makes me wonder if he has helped in some back room conversation to bolster confidence with Ahmadinejad or what.

I profoundly hope that the "hope and change" that the Iranian people tried to vote for won't end up in a bizarre slaughter as "control over chaos" is ordered by the authorization of coup type violence.


He got put in charge of managing things because hes supposed to be very good at efficiency. That was supposed to be the motivation between his getting put in charge of various things in the 80s.

As far as obama not standing up, why would you think he is in favor of Ahmadinejad? There isn't ANY advantage to his doing so, and like countless people have pointed out, stepping in in any way lets at least one side scream about american interference, and will likely LOSE them support.

Reagen was able to behave the way he did because there was a semi-stable situation between TWO main players, which is a very different ball game from what is happening now.

186 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:25:21am

You gotta work to get stats like this in such a short time...

Karma: -36
Unbound
Registered since: Jun 15, 2009 at 3:25 pm
No. of comments posted: 8
No. of links posted: 0
187 S'latch  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:28:39am

"an unlikely possibility?"

Iran's election being overturned is so unlikely, I think you are being too generous even to call it a "possibility."

188 poteen  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:29:36am

re: #154 Unbound

2 years ago the Iranian regime was positioning to be an antagonist on regional and international levels. Today they have to focus on domestic riots. That is a big reversal of fortune. The true powers in Iran ARE in trouble. Obama should say something supportive of the protests ( he has done so , the degree to which is debatable) but more importantly lend support of 'whatever' kind to the many opposition groups and keep the pressure on, Achmo and Mousavi arent the only dogs in the fight now.
'Whatever' means that Panetta shouldn't have time to worry about Cheney.

189 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:31:34am
Believing that he has already defeated the United States, Mr. Ahmadinejad will be in no mood for compromise. Moments after his victory he described the U.S. as a "crippled creature" and invited President Obama to a debate at the United Nations General Assembly, ostensibly to examine "the injustice done by world arrogance to Muslim nations."

Iran's neighbors are unlikely to welcome Mr. Ahmadinejad's re-election. He has reactivated pro-Iranian groups in a number of Arab countries, notably Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Bahrain. He is determined to expand Tehran's influence in Afghanistan and Iraq, especially as the U.S. retreats. He has also made it clear that he intends to help the Lebanese Hezbollah strengthen its position as a state within the state and a vanguard in the struggle against Israel.

190 tradewind  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:32:36am

I care about what happens to the Iranian people who are demonstrating, but as for the outcome of the election? Mousavi 's candidacy had to be pre-approved by the mullahs before he was even allowed to run, so it makes no difference, substantively.....

191 Eowyn2  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 11:49:36am

re: #151 itellu3times

Or, the people, which might be preferable after all. Might.

We are still looking at a feudal system in Iran. No matter how they word the political system. He who has the brute force, has the power. If the students (remember that dinnerjacket was once a 'student') are able to dethrone the current president and his mullah friends, we will simply see another president with possibly slightly less revolting mullah friends.

However, if the next mullah led presidency will allow a few more freedoms than now (starting with banning the execution of gays) there will be hope that in, oh, a century, they can become a democracy.

192 Lynn B.  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:14:33pm

re: #40 zombie

I dunno -- I think this is just the beginning. In many person-on-the-street interviews I saw, Iranians said they didn't really care about Mousavi himself as a candidate, they just voted for him as the only way to vote against Ahmadinejad. I think once Mousavi takes office, there will be much and greater pressure for further reforms, and then more and more, until the Mullahs are out of power.

Mousavi could essentially be like Gorbachev - - who was himself still a Soviet communist, yet who was the bridge which ushered in a new era and got rid of the old regime. It took several years for Gorbachev to do that, and it would probably take years for Mousavi to do it too (assuming of course the election results are overturned, which is obviously not on the agenda at the moment).

Mousavi is not "perfect," but he's a hell of a lot better than dinnerjacket.

Actually, no. He's not.

He's really not.

Really.

193 samsgran1948  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:22:52pm

re: #112 quickjustice

Hamas reported that Hamas extremists tried to kill Carter with a roadside IED, but that they were foiled by Hamas moderates.

I find this implausible.

Trying to brush up the Peanut Farmer's credentials? If there's a plot against him in Gaza, doesn't that show that he's too friendly to the Israelis?

194 rumcrook  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 1:54:03pm

re: #190 tradewind

I care about what happens to the Iranian people who are demonstrating, but as for the outcome of the election? Mousavi 's candidacy had to be pre-approved by the mullahs before he was even allowed to run, so it makes no difference, substantively.....

if it makes no difference than why didnt the mullahs let him win if he was the winner? same game same lackey in thier pocket, just tell lackey #1 your out new lackeys in.

no I think at this point if the crowds get the revolution they want this guy is swept up in forces now beyond his original personal convictions, or directional outlook.

195 Dad O' Blondes  Tue, Jun 16, 2009 2:06:29pm

Tne national elections in IRAQ were incident-free and peaceful.

We never hear anything about that -- ever.

These pictures from Iran -- all those folks like the MSM and the New York Times should study them. This is what people do when they are terrorized by their own government, and their voices shut down.

They fight like hell.

.


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