Steele Continues Backing Scozzafava

Politics • Views: 3,001

The religious right and social conservatives (Tim Pawlenty, Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, James Dobson, Rick Santorum, etc.) are rushing to the side of Doug Hoffman in the NY-23 election, but Michael Steele stands forlornly by Dede Scozzafava.

Republican National Committee (RNC) Chairman Michael Steele stuck by Republican special election candidate Dede Scozzafava in an interview on MSNBC’s Morning Joe on Wednesday.

“I support the Republican nominee as the Republican Party chairman, and that’s the way it should go, right?” Steele said in a light-hearted exchange (video at about 5 minues in).

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189 comments
1 Kragar  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:17:20am

Now if I were the Chairman, I would be thankful for the list of names of people who no longer want the GOP's money to help campaign with.

They can use the saving for a new website.

2 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:18:58am

Hows that litmus test working out for the Rupubican party?

3 badger1970  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:20:26am

If Scozzafava wasn't such a weak candidate, would Hoffman even have a prayer, no?

4 Baier  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:21:00am

/Everything is going to be fine.

5 Leonidas Hoplite  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:23:20am

Is it time to start running around and screaming yet?

6 Surabaya Stew  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:23:28am
“I support the Republican nominee as the Republican Party chairman, and that’s the way it should go, right?”

Wow...what a remarkable display of enthusiasm over here! Before you know it, Michael Steele may actually praise the guy using positive words of encouragement...will the GOP proceed to fall apart in that case?

7 bosforus  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:23:53am

re: #1 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They can use the saving for a new website.

An upgrade for the GOP's website would cost far less than what they'd save. They could get an unpaid intern to do that.

8 Kragar  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:24:04am

re: #3 badger1970

If Scozzafava wasn't such a weak candidate, would Hoffman even have a prayer, no?

Would Scozzafava be seen as such a weak candidate if she weren't getting attacked by people supposedly in her own party?

9 Kragar  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:24:36am

re: #7 bosforus

An upgrade for the GOP's website would cost far less than what they'd save. They could get an unpaid intern to do that.

The intern wouldn't even need internet experience.

10 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:24:50am
“I support the Republican nominee as the Republican Party chairman, and that’s the way it should go, right?”

Yes, Mr. Steele- that's exactly right. As Chairman, he's supposed to support the party, and that means the endorsed candidates.

For those giving Michael Steele a hard time, I think they should stop and ask themselves if they really are republicans.

11 Kragar  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:25:12am

re: #5 Leonidas Hoplite

Is it time to start running around and screaming yet?

Its never too early to panic.

12 Leonidas Hoplite  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:26:37am

I forget, is Scarborough a denier or an anti-vaxer?

13 Kragar  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:26:40am

re: #10 Sharmuta

Yes, Mr. Steele- that's exactly right. As Chairman, he's supposed to support the party, and that means the endorsed candidates.

For those giving Michael Steele a hard time, I think they should stop and ask themselves if they really are republicans.

They're too busy asking if Steele is a real republican.

14 Baier  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:27:07am

re: #11 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Its never too early to panic.

That's my family motto.

15 badger1970  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:27:14am

re: #8 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

She stepped in it when she said she supported the government health insurance fiasco. A good candidate would never leave and opening for the weaker opponent. She got ticked off at her constitutes for questioning her and she went off and had a temper tantrum. Now she is dealing with her mistake.

16 countrockulot  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:27:31am

re: #11 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Its never too early to panic.

I think that's the motto of the new Death Panel/Vaccinations Ate My Baby/Palin/Beck Republican Party

17 erraticsphinx  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:27:47am

I think if Hoffman wins it will a "getting enough rope to hang yourself" type situation for the GOP.


Sad.

18 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:27:49am

For some reason, I haven't been able to find any statements by Hoffman on creationism or "intelligent design." But from the people who've endorsed him, I'd be surprised if he isn't a creationist as well.

19 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:28:35am

If the hard right so-cons peeled off and formed another party I think the Republicans would be better off in the long run. They could move to the small government/fiscal responsibility/trust the people to govern themselves platform and after an initial loss I think they would attract more moderates.

Right now with the Dems and Repubs we have a choice between which flavor of big government big spenders we want and that is not a good choice.

20 subsailor68  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:28:49am

re: #6 Surabaya Stew

Wow...what a remarkable display of enthusiasm over here! Before you know it, Michael Steele may actually praise the guy using positive words of encouragement...will the GOP proceed to fall apart in that case?

LOL! My thoughts exactly. What a ringing endorsement! Kind of like the dust jacket on Rush Limbaugh's new book:

Praise for "Bite Me: The Wit and Wisdom of Rush Limbaugh":

"Well, for a fat guy, he doesn't sweat much." - The Cleveland Plain Dealer.

21 Kragar  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:29:22am

re: #14 Baier

re: #16 countrockulot

When in deadly danger,
when beset by doubt,
run in little circles,
wave your arms and shout.

22 spinmore  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:29:41am

re: #8 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
What's all the hub-bub Bub?

23 doubter4444  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:29:42am

re: #3 badger1970

If Scozzafava wasn't such a weak candidate, would Hoffman even have a prayer, no?

I don't think she was that weak till the Conservatives started to attack her.
The seat should have been a cakewalk.

24 Bubblehead II  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:29:54am

“I support the Republican nominee as the Republican Party chairman, and that’s the way it should go, right?”

Why did he phrase this as a question? It makes it look like he is having second thoughts about his endorsement imho.

25 bosforus  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:30:06am

re: #9 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The intern wouldn't even need internet experience.

Not so. Geocities closed down on Sunday and its site builder along with it. They may need someone with experience after all.

26 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:30:08am

re: #19 DaddyG

If the hard right so-cons peeled off and formed another party I think the Republicans would be better off in the long run. They could move to the small government/fiscal responsibility/trust the people to govern themselves platform and after an initial loss I think they would attract more moderates.

Right now with the Dems and Repubs we have a choice between which flavor of big government big spenders we want and that is not a good choice.

The theo-cons already have a party- it's called The Constitution Party, and it's a dominionist organization. It's exactly where the theo-cons should go, and leave the GOP to the fisc-cons and hawks.

27 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:30:11am

Fred Dicker picks apart the mess that is NY-23 and notes that the mess starts with the incompetent and ineffectual state GOP. Everything that follows is a result of a listless and insider ethos of the state GOP.

There's a reason that so many people are dissatisfied with the Scozzafava, but the way this is going, Owens will win by GOPers and conservatives splitting votes.

If the GOP wants to start fixing their mess, it starts with cleaning shop in Albany. The state GOP has to realize that running candidates out there who are warmed over Albany insiders (Scozzafava is walking in the footprints of another failed campaign a few months earlier by GOP bigwig Jim Tedisco to get Gillenbrand's vacated seat in the state legislature). Albany insiders aren't what the party needs. They need to get fiscally responsible people into office, and while upstate GOP is more conservative than downstate, the goal should be the same - to win back the legislature and to reduce the exorbitant spending by the state that it can ill afford.

The state GOP can't play Democrat-lite with its candidates because when you have a choice between the two, voters will pick the Democrat since they are more than willing to spend, spend, spend.

Meanwhile, with all the attention on NY-23, pay attention to the NJ governor's race, where a key Obama ally (the president has visited NJ 3x, and has sent many of his underlings there to help) should rightfully go down to defeat because of his incompetence, but incumbent Jon Corzine is throwing money around like a drunken sailor by outspending his opponents 3-1 and negative ads are making it a dead heat. And that's even with many of the same people who have weighed in supporting Hoffman providing some of that support for GOPer Chris Christie.

28 Soundboard Fez  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:30:46am

re: #18 Charles

For some reason, I haven't been able to find any statements by Hoffman on creationism or "intelligent design." But from the people who've endorsed him, I'd be surprised if he isn't a creationist as well.

He's wise if he's keeping his mouth shut on the topic. Coming out to support creationism won't help him much in an affluent northern district. On the other hand, coming out and rejecting it will kill him among his nationwide wingnut donor base.

29 doubter4444  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:30:50am

re: #20 subsailor68

LOL! My thoughts exactly. What a ringing endorsement! Kind of like the dust jacket on Rush Limbaugh's new book:

Praise for "Bite Me: The Wit and Wisdom of Rush Limbaugh":

"Well, for a fat guy, he doesn't sweat much." - The Cleveland Plain Dealer.

LOL.
That's pretty funny.

30 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:31:43am

re: #8 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Scozzafava is a weak candidate because of her ties that suggest that she's nothing more than a warmed over Albany insider and a tax and spender at that - including support from ACORN and WFP.

That's not groups with whom the GOPer should be seeking support, not when they're under investigation all over NYS, including Troy, NY, for voter fraud and other irregularities.

31 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:32:13am

re: #6 Surabaya Stew

Wow...what a remarkable display of enthusiasm over here! Before you know it, Michael Steele may actually praise the guy using positive words of encouragement...will the GOP proceed to fall apart in that case?

The "guy" is a woman.

32 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:32:16am

re: #26 Sharmuta

I really don't get the push to have a republican form of government endorse a particular religious view. I am personally very religious but I see a clear demarkation between my church and the state. I don't want either one to get crossed with the other.

33 erraticsphinx  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:33:01am

re: #30 lawhawk

Then this purge will have to last quite a while, because many many Republicans have gotten support from the WFP.

It's unfair to say that should disqualify them.

34 spinmore  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:33:18am

re: #31 Walter L. Newton
Dude looks like a lady

35 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:34:15am

re: #31 Walter L. Newton

The "guy" is a woman.


Are you sure or are you just taking the MSMs word for it? /

36 Political Atheist  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:34:40am

The answer is here

Youtube Video

Party Unity

37 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:35:34am

re: #27 lawhawk

Speaking of New Jersey and Michael Steele:

Steele Agrees That GOP Should Cease To Exist In New Jersey If Corzine Wins

During an interview on MSNBC this morning, RNC Chairman Michael Steele oddly agreed that if the Republican Party cannot pull out a victory against incumbent Gov. Jon Corzine in the upcoming New Jersey gubernatorial race, it should just give up and cease to exist.

“If Chris Christie doesn’t win under these circumstances in New Jersey, should the Republican Party just fold in that state?” NBC’s Chuck Todd asked, getting a laugh out of Steele. Todd likened the Republicans to a Charlie Brown character. “It’s like Lucy and the football — Lucy is about to pull the football away again.”

And related to this topic:

Steele and former Speaker Newt Gingrich are increasingly standing alone in their support of the Republican candidate. Roll Call reports that on Tuesday, “former National Republican Congressional Committee Chairman Tom Cole (Okla.), Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) and Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.) spurned the leadership by endorsing Doug Hoffman’s third-party campaign in the New York special election, following the lead of Rep. Todd Tiahrt (R-Kan.).”

A house divided cannot stand.

38 charlz  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:37:21am

re: #26 Sharmuta

The theo-cons already have a party- it's called The Constitution Party, and it's a dominionist organization. It's exactly where the theo-cons should go, and leave the GOP to the fisc-cons and hawks.

Except the political structure from Congress to public funding of elections is geared for the two-party system. The theo-cons obviously prefer to take over the Republican party apparatus rather than embrace 3rd party status.

39 Kragar  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:37:26am

re: #30 lawhawk

Scozzafava is a weak candidate because of her ties that suggest that she's nothing more than a warmed over Albany insider and a tax and spender at that - including support from ACORN and WFP.

That's not groups with whom the GOPer should be seeking support, not when they're under investigation all over NYS, including Troy, NY, for voter fraud and other irregularities.

See, I didn't know that. Being in sunny San Diego, I tend not to follow NY state local elections.

40 DaddyG  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:38:09am

Huh? Why are representatives from CA, SC and KS endorsing anyone in a race from NY? I would resent that if I were a resident of the state having the election.

41 erraticsphinx  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:38:43am

re: #37 Sharmuta

re: #40 DaddyG

They're idiots. Hoffman is not a good fit for the district. He's a good fit for the armchair teabag commanders, not upstate New York.

He will most likely lose (though then we'll get cries of "Conservatism won!" even though...it didn't).

42 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:40:47am

BTW, here's a map of NY-23, which includes the following counties: Jefferson, Lewis, Oswego, St. Lawrence, Hamilton, Franklin, Clinton, Madison, and parts of Essex, Fulton, and Oneida.

Looking at the 2008 election, those counties voted fairly evenly between McCain and Obama but had been strong for the GOP in the House, with McHugh and Bohlert before him. Scozzafava is a weak candidate in comparison to those she intends to replace.

43 spinmore  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:41:19am

No more RINOs

44 Leonidas Hoplite  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:41:21am

re: #40 DaddyG

Huh? Why are representatives from CA, SC and KS endorsing anyone in a race from NY? I would resent that if I were a resident of the state having the election.

I feel the same way about candidates taking campaign donations from individuals and groups outside of the state they are campaigning to represent in Congress. Doesn't seem quite right, but there you have it.

45 jayzee  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:42:12am

Well he's showing some life at least. Finally. And Newt-he's worth watching for the next few years.

46 Green Machine  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:42:31am

re: #18 Charles
I think we need to give him the benefit of the doubt as we have Obama. Considering some of the folks that Obama has associated with for 20 years or more. Ya think?

47 erraticsphinx  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:42:50am

re: #42 lawhawk

Boehlert and McHugh very moderate, and in the case of Boehlert even liberal Republicans.

They fit their districts well. Hoffman doesn't.

48 spinmore  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:43:00am

re: #44 Leonidas Hoplite
Funny how democracy works

49 erraticsphinx  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:43:20am

re: #46 Green Machine

Uh...what does Obama have to do with this? I'm confused.

50 Athens Runaway  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:43:21am
The religious right and social conservatives (Tim Pawlenty, Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, James Dobson, Rick Santorum, etc.)...

Wait, Pawlenty's a social conservative? I could have sworn he was on the fiscal-con/sanity side. I know he went to that "Value Voters" thing, but I dunno if that puts him in the league of Dobson and Santorum.

51 Leonidas Hoplite  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:43:37am

re: #48 spinmore

Funny how democracy works

Or doesn't.

52 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:43:41am

re: #43 spinmore

That's a great way to expand the party. Kick a bunch of people out.

Good luck with that, and don't whine when you lose next year because the RINOs didn't help you. You don't want them, so don't cry when you get your way, okay?

53 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:43:57am

re: #33 erraticsphinx

Many? Care to name names? Where's your support for that statement?

54 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:45:39am

re: #43 spinmore

No more RINOs

No more winning elections!11!
/Great party philosophy there, chief.

55 jaunte  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:45:45am

re: #43 spinmore

No more RINOs


What's a definition of a RINO that will give you more than 20% of the vote?

56 jayzee  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:46:14am

re: #43 spinmore

No more RINOs

That's silly. Anyone who's not Ron Paul is a RINO according the the paleo cons. The Republicans need to regain control of congress, and the ONLY way to do it, will be to do what the Dems did. Bring on those that appeal to the population in a district even if they differ from some party platforms in some areas.

57 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:46:30am

OT:
Here's a refreshing look at Israel's economic miracle that gets all too little coverage these days of demonization; including some ideas which we might consider for our own Western economies:
[Link: www.cnbc.com...]

58 jaunte  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:46:58am

re: #55 jaunte

Correction: what's a definition of a True Republican that will give you more than 20% of the vote?

59 bosforus  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:48:06am

re: #43 spinmore

No more RINOs

No more LINO's!
Lizards In Name Only

60 Soundboard Fez  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:48:08am

re: #50 Athens Runaway

Wait, Pawlenty's a social conservative? I could have sworn he was on the fiscal-con/sanity side. I know he went to that "Value Voters" thing, but I dunno if that puts him in the league of Dobson and Santorum.

[Link: scienceblogs.com...]

"Intelligent design is something that, in my view, is plausible and credible and something that I personally believe in but, more importantly, from an educational and scientific standpoint, it should be decided by local school boards at the local school district level."

61 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:48:27am

re: #56 jayzee

That's silly. Anyone who's not Ron Paul is a RINO according the the paleo cons. The Republicans need to regain control of congress, and the ONLY way to do it, will be to do what the Dems did. Bring on those that appeal to the population in a district even if they differ from some party platforms in some areas.

And anyone who's not a creationist is a RINO! according to the theo-cons.

62 spinmore  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:48:50am

re: #49 erraticsphinx

Uh...what does Obama have to do with this? I'm confused.

re: #52 Sharmuta

That's a great way to expand the party. Kick a bunch of people out.

Good luck with that, and don't whine when you lose next year because the RINOs didn't help you. You don't want them, so don't cry when you get your way, okay?

Not really sure what that means (?)
Grew up in Philly w/Arlen Specter. A lot of folks aren't going to accept Republicans in Name Only. The shift back to conservative ideals is afoot (or an arm?)

63 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:49:06am

Alright, which one of you sold Michael Steele a pair? Fess up, I know somebody must have, this certainly doesn't seem like the same Steele who apoligized to Rush.

64 Racer X  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:49:36am

re: #57 Spare O'Lake

OT:
Here's a refreshing look at Israel's economic miracle that gets all too little coverage these days of demonization; including some ideas which we might consider for our own Western economies:
[Link: www.cnbc.com...]

Must watch.

Thanks!

65 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:50:29am

re: #62 spinmore

Not really sure what that means (?)
Grew up in Philly w/Arlen Specter. A lot of folks aren't going to accept Republicans in Name Only. The shift back to conservative ideals is afoot (or an arm?)

What exactly do you think are "conservative" ideals? Let's start there. Smaller government, fiscal responsibility- stuff like that? Please tell me how theo-cons and paelo-cons are "conservative" then.

66 Soundboard Fez  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:51:33am

re: #62 spinmore

Not really sure what that means (?)
Grew up in Philly w/Arlen Specter. A lot of folks aren't going to accept Republicans in Name Only. The shift back to conservative ideals is afoot (or an arm?)

The problem is, voters in Philly, NY, Boston, etc. aren't really going to accept southern-style TRVE CONSERVATIVES.

Purge the Lincoln Chafees of the GOP, end up with Sheldon Whitehouse in the Senate.

67 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:52:30am

OT - I'm having trouble posting - internet is slow as anything - I think it's the connection on my end - maybe because of snow snow, a lot of people are home and this DSL loop probably has a lot of traffic on it - I will have to be in and out today unless this speeds up.

68 Surabaya Stew  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:53:25am

re: #31 Walter L. Newton

The "guy" is a woman.

Heh heh heh...does the "I was being figurative, not literal" excuse hold water here?
:-D

69 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:54:25am

re: #68 Surabaya Stew

Heh heh heh...does the "I was being figurative, not literal" excuse hold water here?
:-D

She da man!

70 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:55:00am

re: #53 lawhawk

WFP provided the following endorsements for NYS in 2009. Quite a few Democrats on the list. In fact, the overwhelming majority are Democrats.

WFP endorsed Bill Owens in the race, but Scozzafava's husband has deep ties to ACORN and WFP (which ACORN helped found).

71 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:55:01am

re: #46 Green Machine

I think we need to give him the benefit of the doubt as we have Obama. Considering some of the folks that Obama has associated with for 20 years or more. Ya think?

When a politician is running for office, that's exactly the time that you don't give him "the benefit of the doubt."

72 Rexatosis  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:55:18am

If the GOP wants to win in the Northeast the party has to stop running candidates that are fiscal liberals. Social liberal/fiscal conservative has been the traditional winning combination in the Northeast for the GOP for decades (see Rudy Guilliani, Jodi Rell, etc.) Social liberal/fiscal liberal is just a faux Democrat. Why go faux when you can vote for the real thing?

73 erraticsphinx  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:55:27am

re: #53 lawhawk

It's called using teh google.

Caesar Trunzo, John Flanagan, Owen Johnson just off the top of my head. And this is just in LI. They also endorsed an upstate Republican Senator (Maziarz) who was in a tough race last year.

And countless local candidates for town supervisors/town councils, including here in my hometown of Islip. And all of our neighboring town like Brookhaven/East Hampton/Southold. etc.


But wait wait I know. They're all RINOS.

74 funky chicken  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:55:50am

I'm not sure you could call Hoffman a strong candidate when he won't even show up for a debate with Dede:

[Link: news10now.com...]

75 Green Machine  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:55:56am

re: #49 erraticsphinx
Absolutly nothing, other than a comparison.

76 erraticsphinx  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:56:18am

re: #70 lawhawk

See my 73, they endorse tons of Republicans. More democrats of course, but they have no problem endorsing Republicans.

77 Soundboard Fez  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:56:43am

re: #70 lawhawk

WFP endorsed Bill Owens in the race, but Scozzafava's husband has deep ties to ACORN and WFP (which ACORN helped found).

Mary Matalin's husband has some really deep ties to objectionable organizations. Just sayin'.

78 Randall Gross  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:56:50am

re: #3 badger1970

Hoffman has lots of prayer, just zero chance of winning.

79 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:57:31am

re: #63 ausador

Alright, which one of you sold Michael Steele a pair? Fess up, I know somebody must have, this certainly doesn't seem like the same Steele who apoligized to Rush.

I don't think it took a whole lot of testosterone to say, [paraphrasing here] "I'm the chairman, I have to support the Party's candidate."

80 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:57:44am

re: #24 Bubblehead II

nah. it was a rhetorical question he was asking to RINOS like Palin who put their toys out of the GOP pram and abandon the party the first time they see something shiny and destructive

81 Athens Runaway  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:57:50am

re: #60 Soundboard Fez

[Link: scienceblogs.com...]

"Intelligent design is something that, in my view, is plausible and credible and something that I personally believe in but, more importantly, from an educational and scientific standpoint, it should be decided by local school boards at the local school district level."

Gotcha. I was unaware of that quote. Thanks.

82 Randall Gross  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:57:59am

re: #18 Charles

For some reason, I haven't been able to find any statements by Hoffman on creationism or "intelligent design." But from the people who've endorsed him, I'd be surprised if he isn't a creationist as well.

You can't find anything by him at all, he's a political cypher

83 Soundboard Fez  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:59:29am

re: #81 Athens Runaway

Gotcha. I was unaware of that quote. Thanks.

It's pretty damn depressing when, in spite of that, he's on the saner end of the bell curve of the likely 2012 slate.

84 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 10:59:32am

re: #82 Thanos

You can't find anything by him at all, he's a political cypher

Oh noes! Not another Hopenchanger!/

85 Surabaya Stew  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:00:26am

re: #82 Thanos

You can't find anything by him at all, he's a political cypher

Really, nothing at all? If that's so, it sounds like he may have some positions and opinions he's kinda shy about...with good reasons!

86 Randall Gross  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:02:09am

re: #85 Surabaya Stew

Really, nothing at all? If that's so, it sounds like he may have some positions and opinions he's kinda shy about...with good reasons!

He did dodge a debate with Dede, he prefers to put out vague position statements via youtube.

87 erraticsphinx  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:02:23am

re: #82 Thanos

I don't know if you've already heard about the Watertown Daily Times interview with him that was a disaster. He had no idea of any local issues, but "family values, no to Obamacare, yes to tea parties" seemed to be predominant

He is an empty teabag suit. Picture that.

88 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:02:58am

re: #79 wrenchwench

I don't think it took a whole lot of testosterone to say, [paraphrasing here] "I'm the chairman, I have to support the Party's candidate."

Right- it's just the job requirement.

89 Soundboard Fez  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:03:02am

re: #86 Thanos

He did dodge a debate with Dede, he prefers to put out vague position statements via youtube.

His website doesn't even include an "On the Issues" section.

90 Randall Gross  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:03:49am

re: #87 erraticsphinx

I don't know if you've already heard about the Watertown Daily Times interview with him that was a disaster. He had no idea of any local issues, but "family values, no to Obamacare, yes to tea parties" seemed to be predominant

He is an empty teabag suit. Picture that.

He doesn't live in the district, he's a hired gun from the Club for Decay. He's Lake Placid.

91 Athens Runaway  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:03:58am

re: #83 Soundboard Fez

It's pretty damn depressing when, in spite of that, he's on the saner end of the bell curve of the likely 2012 slate.

I'm still pulling for Romney. Without McCain around for Huckleberry to team up with, I think he'll be the 2012 nominee. Fiscal responsibility and the economy are going to be key issues.

/yes I know Romney is a Mormon, it doesn't bother me
//should it?

92 tradewind  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:04:36am

re: #46 Green Machine

Don't worry, if there's even a whiff of kreationism about him, someone will sniff it out.

93 erraticsphinx  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:04:39am

re: #90 Thanos

Club for Decay aka Club for (Democratic) Growth

94 bratwurst  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:05:20am

re: #91 Athens Runaway

/yes I know Romney is a Mormon, it doesn't bother me
//should it?

Absolutely not. The push-polled primary voters in South Carolina could be another story though.

95 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:05:43am

re: #73 erraticsphinx

Ummm... actually I think your google-fu needs an update. Trunzo was not a WFP candidate. The WFP supported his opponent Brian Foley, who defeated Trunzo. A google search of the WFP site finds no endorsement by WFP of Trunzo. There's no mention of Owen Johnson either.

And even if you were right and the WFP did endorse those GOPers, they should be ashamed for accepting the endorsements because of all the baggage that the WFP comes with - and their support for big government, higher taxes, and ever higher spending.

96 Randall Gross  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:05:50am

re: #93 erraticsphinx

Club for Decay aka Club for (Democratic) Growth

Yes, where Hoffman's campaign funds are coming from. He's the pick of out of staters.

97 Soundboard Fez  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:06:03am

re: #91 Athens Runaway

I'm still pulling for Romney. Without McCain around for Huckleberry to team up with, I think he'll be the 2012 nominee. Fiscal responsibility and the economy are going to be key issues.

/yes I know Romney is a Mormon, it doesn't bother me
//should it?

Romney's my early favorite too. The only thing on Romney and religion that bothers me is that he completely disavowed his record as governor to suck up to the socons.

98 Surabaya Stew  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:06:59am

re: #86 Thanos

He did dodge a debate with Dede, he prefers to put out vague position statements via youtube.

Ah, a debate dodger he is; one of the worst things a politician can be. Shows he's not serious at all. Why doesn't he just wear a rubber nose and floppy shoes in that case? It would complete him...

99 Ojoe  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:07:10am

Down with both major political parties. Pffiibbittth.™

100 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:07:16am

re: #71 Charles

When a politician is running for office, that's exactly the time that you don't give him "the benefit of the doubt."

Too bad this excellent advice wasn't applied by the MSM to Obama during the nomination and campaign.

101 tradewind  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:07:25am

re: #91 Athens Runaway

Things move so fast nowdays you just can't say this far out... where was Obama , national-stage-wise, in fall of '05?

102 tradewind  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:08:15am

re: #100 Spare O'Lake

O definitely got the benefit of the doubt.
Now we have plenty of time to doubt the benefit.

103 spinmore  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:08:36am

re: #100 Spare O'Lake

Buy that man/woman a drink

104 erraticsphinx  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:10:55am

re: #95 lawhawk

Caesar Trunzo and Owen Johnson were both supported by the WFP in 2004 over legimitate dems . And they have endorsed many Republicans since then.

And I guess we have to disagree about what it means to be endorsed by the WFP.

I'm out to jog.

105 bosforus  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:13:08am

Interesting...
Creationism teaching supported [in the UK]

Some 54 per cent of adult respondents to a recent survey believe that teachers in British schools should teach creationism alongside Darwin's evolutionary theories.
106 Guanxi88  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:14:38am

'lo, Lizards. What's the rumpus?

107 Randall Gross  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:15:53am

The party backing steathDobson Hoffman also backs group school prayer, a prohibition on gay marriage, repeal of the existing NY abortion laws, use of tax dollars for birth control, is against a family right to choose in medical decisions like Schiavo, and is against fetal stem cell research.

108 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:16:13am

re: #105 bosforus

well - given that the creation stories of all major religions are already taught during school time in UK Public schools during an hour a week of comparative religion study... it's pretty much a none story.

109 funky chicken  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:16:17am

re: #97 Soundboard Fez

Romney's my early favorite too. The only thing on Romney and religion that bothers me is that he completely disavowed his record as governor to suck up to the socons.

Yep. That was a huge error in my book, as was his apologia over his previous moderate stance on abortion on Glenn Beck's old show on CNN. Romney sucking up to Glenn Beck...kinda nauseating.

110 Guanxi88  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:17:04am

re: #107 Thanos

The party backing steathDobson Hoffman also backs group school prayer, a prohibition on gay marriage, repeal of the existing NY abortion laws, use of tax dollars for birth control, is against a family right to choose in medical decisions like Schiavo, and is against fetal stem cell research.

Other than that, though, they seem like fine folk.

111 Political Atheist  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:17:21am

I found this link on leadership that believed in creationism. Including Reagan. And his opponent Jimmy Carter.
I am not familiar with this site, it is just a Google result.

[Link: www.rae.org...]

112 bosforus  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:17:28am

Interesting article about one Bob Anthony...
Scientists overwhelmingly support evolution

Mr. Anthony should have pointed out that a counter-petition entitledA Scientific Support for Darwinismgathered 7,733 signatures in just four days. By comparison, it took more than seven years to accumulate 761 signatures on theDissent.
113 spinmore  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:18:27am

re: #110 Guanxi88
Funny line . . . good delivery (still laughin')

114 oh_dude  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:18:59am
The religious right and social conservatives

I guess the opposite of that would be the Atheist Left and Social Progressives correct?

Who are they backing?

115 rollwave87  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:20:23am

wow. what an enthusiastic endorsement of YOUR party's candidate, Michael. I think if the teabaggers win in NY23, Dede's next campaign should be to run for your job. she'd easily have my vote for RNC chair over a mushy, incompetent tool like you.

116 soundboard fez  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:20:34am

re: #111 Rightwingconspirator

I found this link on leadership that believed in creationism. Including Reagan. And his opponent Jimmy Carter.
I am not familiar with this site, it is just a Google result.

[Link: www.rae.org...]

There's a huge difference between public statements acknowledging God as a creator and making a concerted policy effort to have it taught in science class.

117 bratwurst  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:20:46am

re: #110 Guanxi88

Other than that, though, they seem like fine folk.

I'd have a beer with 'em!

118 lawhawk  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:21:17am

re: #104 erraticsphinx

I stand corrected on 2004, looking back at the election results (should have gone there first). Owen Johnson ran unopposed and was on the ballot under the GOP, IND, CON, and WFP party lines. Trunzo was on the WFP, GOP, and IND lines. Quite a few GOPers from Long Island were on that line, and that bodes poorly for the state GOP at large.

119 Guanxi88  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:22:23am

re: #117 bratwurst

I'd have a beer with 'em!

Few indeed are the folk with whom I wouldn't have a beer. Probably not with Neo-Nazis, or even original Nazis, just on principle, but otherwise - yeah, I've drunk with Commies.

120 Political Atheist  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:22:32am

re: #116 soundboard fez

Yes indeed. Note Reagan pursued this course when Governor. It was a different day back then, so contemporary culture is different. I pose that we want to be careful about litmus tests. What a person believes inside in a personal religious sense is often separate from their politics or policies.

121 rollwave87  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:22:58am

re: #97 Soundboard Fez

Romney's my early favorite too. The only thing on Romney and religion that bothers me is that he completely disavowed his record as governor to suck up to the socons.

I agree. but it's hard for me to minimize that. I mean, throwing women, gays, etc under the bus to win votes of some theocratic morons? not the mark of a true leader or a principled man.

122 bosforus  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:24:03am

Correct me if I'm wrong (not going to watch the video of Steele at work right now) but what Charles quoted says,

“I support the Republican nominee as the Republican Party chairman, and that’s the way it should go, right?” Steele said in a light-hearted exchange (video at about 5 minues in).

Could he have been saying this sarcastically, like, obviously I'm going to support him?

123 spinmore  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:24:19am

re: #117 bratwurst

I'd have a beer with 'em!

Of course I want kraut on it, and stone ground mustard..
. . . ahh . . . wheat beer.

124 soundboard fez  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:24:32am

re: #121 rollwave87

I agree. but it's hard for me to minimize that. I mean, throwing women, gays, etc under the bus to win votes of some theocratic morons? not the mark of a true leader or a principled man.

If they ever come up with a principled candidate, he will have my vote. Until then, I vote for the least worst.

Romney > Bobby "the Exorcist" Jindal, Sarah Palin, Jim Demint, etc etc.

125 bratwurst  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:24:33am

re: #119 Guanxi88

Few indeed are the folk with whom I wouldn't have a beer. Probably not with Neo-Nazis, or even original Nazis, just on principle, but otherwise - yeah, I've drunk with Commies.

Yeah...once you rule out organized hate and harming people or animals, I am not real choosy about who to pour a few beers down my neck with.

126 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:26:36am

Test

127 Political Atheist  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:26:50am

re: #121 rollwave87

So is the choice who to throw under the bus? The gays or the devout? I can only hope the choice is not that stark, or the Republicans lose. One mans theocrat is anthers devout church goer. This whole "under the bus" thing is pretty counterproductive.

128 spinmore  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:27:11am

re: #126 Walter L. Newton
Testes 1 . . 2

129 soundboard fez  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:27:25am

re: #126 Walter L. Newton

Test

I thought it was just a quiz.

[Yeah, I'm trying to get to 50 posts for dinging]

130 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:28:15am

Charles

Posting is acting weird.. throws me up to top, duplicate error message, locks up...

131 Guanxi88  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:28:37am

re: #126 Walter L. Newton

Test

Walt? Your signal's breaking up! Do you read me?

132 bosforus  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:28:46am

Great, Walter killed a hamster.

133 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:29:03am

re: #129 soundboard fez

Why won't Wiki fix the telephones?
/Perry Noid's song

134 Guanxi88  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:29:20am

re: #132 bosforus

Great, Walter killed a hamster.

He's snowed-in and running low on supplies. Maisey has to eat.

135 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:30:37am

re: #127 Rightwingconspirator

there is a definite distinction between theocrats and devout church goers. The Theocrats (Dobsons & Robertsons) believe the US should be run inline with Biblical Principles and that there should be an established church of the State.

Devout Church goers render unto Ceaser.

136 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:30:46am

re: #134 Guanxi88

He's snowed-in and running low on supplies. Maisey has to eat.

We have 19 inches now.

137 bosforus  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:31:42am

re: #136 Walter L. Newton

We have 19 inches now.

That's what she said.

138 Randall Gross  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:31:43am

re: #127 Rightwingconspirator

So is the choice who to throw under the bus? The gays or the devout? I can only hope the choice is not that stark, or the Republicans lose. One mans theocrat is anthers devout church goer. This whole "under the bus" thing is pretty counterproductive.

Here's a vid from NYCP's rally back in June, you can see exactly who they are here.

Youtube Video

/*cough* neo-coughlinites *cough*

139 John Neverbend  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:31:51am

re: #105 bosforus

Interesting...
Creationism teaching supported [in the UK]

"Head of the Darwin Now programme being run by the British Council, Dr Fern Elsdon-Baker, argued that the poll raised questions over the communication of science both in and outside of the classroom." D'ya think?

140 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:32:12am

re: #136 Walter L. Newton

We have 19 inches now.

Are you around the are that they forecasted up to three feet of snow?

141 Guanxi88  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:32:18am

re: #136 Walter L. Newton

We have 19 inches now.

Ah, I remember getting snowed in up in Beantown a couple times. Not too awful bad, so long as you don't lose power or run outta booze and/or smokes, if you're so inclined.

Don't see that here in Texas. Summer's bad, but, as I always remind myself when I get to complaining about the weather, you don't have to shovel humidity.

142 bosforus  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:33:51am

re: #139 John Neverbend

"Head of the Darwin Now programme being run by the British Council, Dr Fern Elsdon-Baker, argued that the poll raised questions over the communication of science both in and outside of the classroom." D'ya think?

I laughed at that, too. Those types of no-brainer responses drive me insane.

143 Kragar  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:36:36am

re: #136 Walter L. Newton

We have 19 inches now.

in bed.

144 rollwave87  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:36:38am

re: #135 wozzablog

there is a definite distinction between theocrats and devout church goers. The Theocrats (Dobsons & Robertsons) believe the US should be run inline with Biblical Principles and that there should be an established church of the State.

Devout Church goers render unto Ceaser.


exactly. you can still be a Christian and not try to dictate who someone else can or cannot love/marry/do with their own body...by lumping the 'devout' in with the Theocrat so-cons i think you're actually doing a disservice to faith.

145 Political Atheist  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:36:41am

re: #135 wozzablog

The theocrats are as short in number as they are long on rabid dogma, and MSM attention. The Democrats will do everything they can to ensure these groups are lumped together in the public perception.

146 Sharmuta  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:36:53am

re: #107 Thanos

The party backing steathDobson Hoffman also backs group school prayer, a prohibition on gay marriage, repeal of the existing NY abortion laws, use of tax dollars for birth control, is against a family right to choose in medical decisions like Schiavo, and is against fetal stem cell research.

How is this less intrusive government? Maybe a "real conservative" would like to explain it to us...

147 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:36:59am

re: #141 Guanxi88

Ah, I remember getting snowed in up in Beantown a couple times. Not too awful bad, so long as you don't lose power or run outta booze and/or smokes, if you're so inclined.

Don't see that here in Texas. Summer's bad, but, as I always remind myself when I get to complaining about the weather, you don't have to shovel humidity.

You couldn't pay me to move back to Texas. I'll take the 2 feet of snow.

And on that same note, this storm just started and we have 19 inches here. It's suppose to continue until around supper time tomorrow, they are predicting up to 3 feet.

I don't smoke or drink anymore (although this would be a fine time to start again)... and we do loose power up here in the mountains during storms like this.

So, I'm fucked if this goes all to hell.

148 S'latch  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:37:11am

It is very odd that a Republican who supports a Republican candidate could be considered a RINO (Republican In Name Only).

149 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:38:03am

Sigh. Now my internet connection is flaky. I blame Walter. :)
///BBL

150 Guanxi88  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:38:06am

re: #147 Walter L. Newton

You couldn't pay me to move back to Texas. I'll take the 2 feet of snow.

And on that same note, this storm just started and we have 19 inches here. It's suppose to continue until around supper time tomorrow, they are predicting up to 3 feet.

I don't smoke or drink anymore (although this would be a fine time to start again)... and we do loose power up here in the mountains during storms like this.

So, I'm fucked if this goes all to hell.

Whaddaya got for heating? Wood, gas, or one of those sawdust or pellet stove deals?

151 rollwave87  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:38:44am

re: #144 rollwave87

exactly. you can still be a Christian and not try to dictate who someone else can or cannot love/marry/do with their own body...by lumping the 'devout' in with the Theocrat so-cons i think you're actually doing a disservice to faith.

haha. the "do with their own body" clause is intended to be preceded by "what someone can," not "who someone can." sorry.

152 Guanxi88  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:39:36am

re: #151 rollwave87

haha. the "do with their own body" clause is intended to be preceded by "what someone can," not "who someone can." sorry.

Works either way,

153 reine.de.tout  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:40:02am

re: #135 wozzablog

there is a definite distinction between theocrats and devout church goers. The Theocrats (Dobsons & Robertsons) believe the US should be run inline with Biblical Principles and that there should be an established church of the State.

Devout Church goers render unto Ceaser.

Uh, yes, there is a definite distinction between the theocrats and devout church-goers.

I am devout.

I am not a theocrat.

I care not what anybody else is or does.

I am conservative in that I want limited governmental influence in our lives; and that includes government health insurance as well as laws that seek to interfere with private behavior. The more limited influence government has, the more likely each of us is to be able to live as conservatively or as liberally as we would like to.

154 Ray in TX  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:40:45am

From the Conservative Party of New York website ([Link: www.cpnys.org...] if he's not a creationist, I'd be a little surprised:

Nothing separates the elites from the majority of Americans than belief in the Judeo-Christian foundation that the Founders of our nation instilled in the public life of our nation. In recent decades, the news-media, the entertainment community, academics, and left-wing elected officials have conducted a concerted campaign to eradicate religion from American public life. Even though this campaign is contrary to the will of the people and the United States Constitution the anti-religious forces have won significant victories because of federal judges who have decided to ignore and misinterpret the law of the land.

This has forced local communities to accept homosexual marriages, abortion, the elimination of prayer in public schools, and the banning of religious displays on public property. In the 2004 elections many voters had the opportunity to express their views on homosexual marriages. Post-election analysis agrees that people from all ethnic, economic, and racial groups resoundingly expressed their support for traditional man and woman marriages. This confirmation of our religious moral system is consistent with what our Founders believed.

The vast majority of the American people believe in God and believes that religious symbols and values should continue to play a significant role in our society – our legislators and courts must uphold these values.

155 reine.de.tout  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:40:45am

re: #149 Varek Raith

Sigh. Now my internet connection is flaky. I blame Walter. :)
///BBL

It's always Walter's fault.
And Maisey's.

156 Ray in TX  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:41:30am

Ok, here's a working link: [Link: www.cpnys.org...]

157 spinmore  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:44:57am

re: #154 Ray in TX

Can't find anything there I can disagree with. And, I'm not a creationist (suprise!)

158 Ray in TX  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:46:04am

Fun stuff.. the Conservative Party of NY wants to

1) criminalize abortion
2) withdraw from the UN
3) eliminate the Dept of Education
4) ban same-sex marriage


lots of goodies on their website... in absence of policy statements from Hoffman, we should assume he supports those of his party.

159 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:46:04am

re: #150 Guanxi88

Whaddaya got for heating? Wood, gas, or one of those sawdust or pellet stove deals?

We have a gas furnace but it doesn't heat as well as the pellet stove, which is a new pellet stove upstairs, which is new, but I have been replacing parts on it for a month now, since we got it, it's 3000 dollars and a piece of crap. If the next part they have in the mail doesn't fix it , I demanding they pick it up and refund our money

We have another pellet stove downstairs in the kid critters area, that actually helps upstairs a bit, and we have electric blanket on our bed.

It stays a brisk 55-60 in the house unless we start turning everything up.

So, you stay well clothed and it works out.

160 Guanxi88  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:49:00am

re: #159 Walter L. Newton

We have a gas furnace but it doesn't heat as well as the pellet stove, which is a new pellet stove upstairs, which is new, but I have been replacing parts on it for a month now, since we got it, it's 3000 dollars and a piece of crap. If the next part they have in the mail doesn't fix it , I demanding they pick it up and refund our money

We have another pellet stove downstairs in the kid critters area, that actually helps upstairs a bit, and we have electric blanket on our bed.

It stays a brisk 55-60 in the house unless we start turning everything up.

So, you stay well clothed and it works out.

Glad to hear you got back-ups and such. I remember a particularly nasty two weeks in February when I didn't have the green to get the boiler fixed for our heating system. Had ice in the waterglass by the bedside.

161 Athens Runaway  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:49:51am

It's a good thing I don't live in NY-23 or I'd definitely bere: #158 Ray in TX

Fun stuff.. the Conservative Party of NY wants to

1) criminalize abortion
2) withdraw from the UN
3) eliminate the Dept of Education
4) ban same-sex marriage

lots of goodies on their website... in absence of policy statements from Hoffman, we should assume he supports those of his party.

Geez. While I think Scozzafava should have rejected the endorsements from DailyKos and the Working Families Party, and I think there should have been primary and not a coronation... that's just barking-loon crazy.

162 Athens Runaway  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:50:17am

re: #161 Athens Runaway

Started one comment and went on a different tangent.

163 Liberally Conservative  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:54:24am

re: #158 Ray in TX

Fun stuff.. the Conservative Party of NY wants to

1) criminalize abortion
2) withdraw from the UN
3) eliminate the Dept of Education
4) ban same-sex marriage

lots of goodies on their website... in absence of policy statements from Hoffman, we should assume he supports those of his party.

Look on the bright side, though, at least Hoffman isn't pro-choice!

/sarcasm slashie?

164 Ray in TX  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:58:13am

-- reinstate the death penalty in NY
-- eliminate parole
-- life without parole for 3-time felons
-- right to carry for all citizens
-- no medical use of illegal drugs

-- no same-sex marriages
-- no stem cell research
-- no abortions except for life of the mother

-- English as the official language

-- deregulate businesses

-- photo ID for voting, but no instant voter registration

-- allow school prayer


undoubtedly more to mine form here: [Link: www.cpnys.org...] but it's a pain to read through some of the political-speak.

165 Ray in TX  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:59:53am

re: #163 Liberally Conservative

Look on the bright side, though, at least Hoffman isn't pro-choice!

/sarcasm slashie?

I just want to be clear that I'm not passing judgment on any of those policy positions. Some I clearly disagree with, others not so much. I'm just trying to get a feel for what this Hoffman guy supports.

166 funky chicken  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:02:48pm
-- no medical use of illegal drugs
-- no same-sex marriages
-- no stem cell research
-- no abortions except for life of the mother

Oh yeah, that'll bring in a majority.

eyeroll

167 Liberally Conservative  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:03:08pm

re: #165 Ray in TX

I just want to be clear that I'm not passing judgment on any of those policy positions. Some I clearly disagree with, others not so much. I'm just trying to get a feel for what this Hoffman guy supports.

That's an admirable quality. I, however, would like to say that advocating withdrawing from the UN or abolishing the Department of Education are indicative of political views that aren't in the mainstream.

168 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:06:21pm

Hoffman and R. S. McCain visted the newspaper office together for an interview...and Hoffman knew zip about any of the local issues. He told the newspaper that they should warn him what questions they were going to ask before any more interviews. Riiigght...

[Link: www.watertowndailytimes.com...]

169 Diane  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:06:30pm

I like Steele. I'd vote for him or G.W. again, if I could. Have no time to sweat over the illuminated religious right or the mad leftists. However, once in power, atheists or vigorous new born again, should be governing right in the middle, that is what matters.

170 spinmore  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:07:09pm

re: #167 Liberally Conservative

That's an admirable quality. I, however, would like to say that advocating withdrawing from the UN or abolishing the Department of Education are indicative of political views that aren't in the mainstream.


. . . but should be.

171 SixDegrees  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:14:03pm

re: #154 Ray in TX

From the Conservative Party of New York website ([Link: www.cpnys.org...] if he's not a creationist, I'd be a little surprised:

Nothing separates the elites from the majority of Americans than belief in the Judeo-Christian foundation that the Founders of our nation instilled in the public life of our nation. In recent decades, the news-media, the entertainment community, academics, and left-wing elected officials have conducted a concerted campaign to eradicate religion from American public life. Even though this campaign is contrary to the will of the people and the United States Constitution the anti-religious forces have won significant victories because of federal judges who have decided to ignore and misinterpret the law of the land.

This has forced local communities to accept homosexual marriages, abortion, the elimination of prayer in public schools, and the banning of religious displays on public property. In the 2004 elections many voters had the opportunity to express their views on homosexual marriages. Post-election analysis agrees that people from all ethnic, economic, and racial groups resoundingly expressed their support for traditional man and woman marriages. This confirmation of our religious moral system is consistent with what our Founders believed.

The vast majority of the American people believe in God and believes that religious symbols and values should continue to play a significant role in our society – our legislators and courts must uphold these values.

The standard religious right talking points, all of them both wrong and profoundly at odds with the Constitution.

172 spinmore  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:18:50pm

re: #171 SixDegrees

Thanks for your clarification.
/

173 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:19:25pm

re: #145 Rightwingconspirator

Not nessercerally - the Democrats know how important faith is and do not underestimate it. They are playing in the south to get fiscally liberal evangelicals who will buy the "helping the least among us" economic message.

They are making in roads too.

174 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 12:31:33pm

re: #153 reine.de.tout

good points - well made.

175 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 1:03:57pm
“I support the Republican nominee as the Republican Party chairman, and that’s the way it should go, right?”

At least until Rush Limbaugh stares you down, that is.

176 webevintage  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 1:52:32pm

So basically the Republicans will split the Republican/conservative vote and the Democrat will win.
Brilliant!

Thank you Palin and pals...

177 theheat  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 2:00:26pm

Nothing like the halfhearted, tentative, declaration of support from the RNC chairman himself, ending in a question mark. If that doesn't fire up the voters and gain confidence with the GOP base, I don't know what will.

I've seen more forceful proclamations from moms demanding their kids clean their rooms.

178 SixDegrees  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 2:32:38pm

re: #176 webevintage

So basically the Republicans will split the Republican/conservative vote and the Democrat will win.
Brilliant!

Thank you Palin and pals...

Yeah; I don't think they've fully thought through the "Divide and conquer" strategy.

179 jbolty  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 2:33:04pm

The republicans turning into Democrat "lite" has not worked so far so getting back to basics does not seem like a bad idea. In recent history being a conservative has somehow been made out to be bad and evil.

Personally I am an American first, a conservative second and a republican somewhere after that. Any party that supports Lincoln Chaffee does not deserve to win and in the NY23 race I see only trouble if the GOP canidate wins. She seems to support all the democrat plans but gives the donks a little cover of it being bi-partisan.

180 doubter4444  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 2:48:35pm

re: #66 Soundboard Fez

The problem is, voters in Philly, NY, Boston, etc. aren't really going to accept southern-style TRVE CONSERVATIVES.

Purge the Lincoln Chafees of the GOP, end up with Sheldon Whitehouse in the Senate.

That's the point that was made yesterday too, that it's not a one size fit all type of thing, and the big C Conservatives think it's got to be.
Areas of the country are different, and not all want the theo-cons to rule.

181 doubter4444  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 2:51:33pm

re: #179 jbolty

The republicans turning into Democrat "lite" has not worked so far so getting back to basics does not seem like a bad idea. In recent history being a conservative has somehow been made out to be bad and evil.

Personally I am an American first, a conservative second and a republican somewhere after that. Any party that supports Lincoln Chaffee does not deserve to win and in the NY23 race I see only trouble if the GOP canidate wins. She seems to support all the democrat plans but gives the donks a little cover of it being bi-partisan.

You are dead wrong, unless you live in that district.
This is a Representative democracy, and the people can vote for who they think will represent them best.
End of story.

182 rollwave87  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 6:18:28pm

re: #179 jbolty

The republicans turning into Democrat "lite" has not worked so far so getting back to basics does not seem like a bad idea. In recent history being a conservative has somehow been made out to be bad and evil.

Personally I am an American first, a conservative second and a republican somewhere after that. Any party that supports Lincoln Chaffee does not deserve to win and in the NY23 race I see only trouble if the GOP canidate wins. She seems to support all the democrat plans but gives the donks a little cover of it being bi-partisan.

ok. so you're a conservative before a republican. so can you leave the gop, join the conservative party, and leave us people who actually care about and respect the republican party alone?

183 akarra  Wed, Oct 28, 2009 11:13:06pm

I don't agree with Michael Steele on many things, and I'm certainly more conservative than Scozzafava. But there's a difference between backing a conservative and going nuts, and that line was crossed in this campaign long ago. I'm very happy the Chairman is standing up for the establishment, even if it is a no-brainer.

184 Sabba Hillel  Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:40:06am

An interesting point is that Scozzafava appears to be running a distant third in the race and appears to be considered the "spoiler" by the democrat advertisements which are concentrating on Hoffman. It appears that one of the main ideas pushing Hoffman is resentment of the party insiders who picked her in closed meetings. Whether he wins or loses (and he might win), it appears that he would be favored in the Republican primary next year. It also appears from various reports, that he kept challenging Scozzafava to a debate and being ignored. Only when she realized that she was losing, did she show up at Hoffman headquarters (surrounded by Hoffman posters) and issue a call for a debate. By that time, she was so irrelevant that she was basically ignored by everyone except the reporters who covered the "event".

Take a look at the cute commercial by "progressives for Scozzafava"
[Link: www.politico.com...]

185 jbolty  Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:43:40am

re: #182 rollwave87

ok. so you're a conservative before a republican. so can you leave the gop, join the conservative party, and leave us people who actually care about and respect the republican party alone?

How has that policy of electing rino's and wannabe democrats been working so far?

186 Sabba Hillel  Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:54:01am

As far as wheter or not Hoffman (personally) is a "creationist" is irrelevant. It has become obvious that both sides in that "debate" are ignorant as to the true meaning and implications of "creationism" and "evolutionism". Neither side disproves the other because they are talking about two totally different things.

There is nothing to deny that G-d created the universe and created the "laws of evolution" in order to run it, just as we have the "law of gravity" regarding the matter in the universe. Similarly, while there might be evidence for or against either side, there cannot be proof by the very definition of the two sides. For example, if G-d created the Universe, but allowed for free will, there would have to be room for doubt. If there is no G-d, then there would again be no absolut proof. What would you expect, a signed: affidavit certifying

"I did not creat the Universe, signed G-d".

As a result, I would no more require a statement on the matter from the candidate than I would require a statement that he belonged to a particular religion (including the religion of "atheism"). All I would require would be that he be honest and sincere in his beliefs, but be a legitimate representative of all his constituents, no matter what religion. I would expect him to be honest about how his beliefs might restrict him (like Joe Lieberman and the Sabbath) but that would be it.

187 Sabba Hillel  Thu, Oct 29, 2009 5:58:11am

re: #185 jbolty

I should point out that I have seen comments from members of the local district Republican party that expect Scozzafava to run as a Democrat in 2010 because she would be unable to win the Republican primary. That would be like Arlen Spector in Pennsylvania,

188 Ray in TX  Thu, Oct 29, 2009 6:27:17am

re: #186 Sabba Hillel


As a result, I would no more require a statement on the matter from the candidate than I would require a statement that he belonged to a particular religion (including the religion of "atheism").

The problem is that creationists are actively and continuously trying to get their religious ideas presented as science in public schools and subverting science education in general.

If they were not doing that, no one would really care who was a creationist or who was not. But that is not the political world in which we live, so we do care.

189 Sabba Hillel  Thu, Oct 29, 2009 1:19:49pm

re: #188 Ray in TX

The implication of what I said is that both sides in the dispute are trying to get their "religious" ideas incorporated into the science curriculum. The creationists are trying to insist that G-d deliberately left holes in the "laws of nature" that would require "tweaking" in order to work. The ant-creationists (I am not sure what exact term to use here) are insisting that the very perfection of the creation is "proof" that there was no creator. Neither side is correct (IMNSHO) and neither side is logical. Both "religious" viewpoints do not belong in the science education.


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