McCain Aides: Palin’s Book is ‘All Fiction’

Politics • Views: 2,802

Some of John McCain’s top campaign aides are not happy about Sarah Palin’s book.

Top aides to Sen. John McCain’s presidential campaign hit back at Sarah Palin Friday and Saturday, calling the former vice presidential nominee’s soon-to-be-released book “revisionist and self serving” “fiction.”

Campaign manager Steve Schmidt, who emerges as Palin’s nemesis in the advance excerpts that have surfaced from her forthcoming account of the campaign, “Going Rogue,” told POLITICO Saturday that Palin’s charges about him were made up.

“It’s all fiction,” he said.

With a laugh, the shaved-headed political operative asked: “Why is the bald guy always the villain?”

Schmidt, Palin writes, was “grim-faced” and “cool,” and tried to pin the campaign’s troubles on what he claimed was Palin’s post-partum depression, and even went to so far as to try and dictate her diet.

According to excerpts published on the Huffington Post, Palin “took in his rotund physique and noted that he used nicotine to keep his own cognitive connections humming along.”

“I’m a forty-four year old, healthy, athletic woman raising five kids and governing a large state, I thought as his words faded into a background buzz. Sir, I really don’t know you yet. But you’ve told me how to dress, what to say, who to talk to, a lot of people not to talk to, who my heroes are supposed to be and we’re still losing. Now you’re going to tell me what to eat?”

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457 comments
1 Only The Lurker Knows  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:33:14am

Morning Charles.

2 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:35:09am

Ummm... guess what guys, you lost. Please clear the deck for the next contestant on "who wants to be the Republican candidate?"

3 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:36:07am

Screw em all ... if McCain had picked Romney as his running mate, things MAY have turned out differently.

There are no heroes or heroines here ...

4 sandbox  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:36:49am

I don't care about Sarah Palin. I think her selection as VP hurt the McCain ticket, which supported. She has turned into a soap opera.

5 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:36:56am

yeah - but - don'tcha all geddit...???

it's our fault for livinig in a reality based universe... it's not her fault that everything in her book is wrong, it's us - we are reading it wrong.


/

6 freetoken  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:36:59am

I wonder how long this finger pointing in the GOP will continue? Suspect that Palin is getting short-term gain at the cost of long-term vigor of the GOP. Come post-2010 election the GOP will need a new crop of leaders that aren't bogged down in the old battles.

7 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:37:35am

I think Romney is better off having missed the invitation in 2008. That election was not going to be won by a Republican unless they ran the savior. (Of course the Democrats already beat them to that candidate).

8 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:38:32am

and by the way ... the political left is just eating this up "dontcha know!"

9 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:39:09am

re: #6 freetoken
I doubt Palin will get much more oomph past this book. Any gain is going to be very short term and her book will be in the bargain bin by Easter. This is a non-issue for the 2010 elections IMO.

10 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:39:12am

Those poor little campaign aids getting spanked. Maybe next time, if there is one you whiners, you can act like an adult.

In other but related news. Later today, Sarah Palin will begin removing the ignorant cloak cast upon her by a nasty biased media effort to destroy her, on the Oprah show!

11 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:40:08am

re: #7 DaddyG

I think Romney is better off having missed the invitation in 2008. That election was not going to be won by a Republican unless they ran the savior. (Of course the Democrats already beat them to that candidate).

I just hope the GOP accepts that Romney is someone who not only is a competent and quality leader, but that he may be just the candidate the country needs in 2012.

12 freetoken  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:41:13am

re: #9 DaddyG

The burnt bridges won't be rebuilt by 2010, IMO. Various leaders will have to rise up post 2010 to build the coalitions needed if the GOP is to rise to the task in 2012.

I'm not personally concerned with the GOP - I doubt many will ever get any more of my votes. Yet as an American I do wish that we could have more substantive debate in this country about a wide range of issues.

13 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:42:06am

re: #8 _RememberTonyC

long as she keeps putting herself out there the "unemployed alaska blogger" will be put forward by the Dems as the face and voice of the GOP in lockstep with Limbaugh ... she scares independents and modertae GOP'ers ridgid.

14 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:42:30am

ooo000!...catfight!

15 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:42:42am

Speaking of blame and deflection...

Dunn is still in a peeing contest with Fox. She complements the real journalism coming from John Stewart.

Reality seems to be challenging for a lot of politicos these days.

16 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:43:31am

re: #10 filetandrelease

Those poor little campaign aids getting spanked. Maybe next time, if there is one you whiners, you can act like an adult.

In other but related news. Later today, Sarah Palin will begin removing the ignorant cloak cast upon her by a nasty biased media effort to destroy her, on the Oprah show!

we'll see about that. if Palin attacks the POTUS on Oprah's show, I would expect Oprah to defend him vigorously. And in a cat fight between Oprah and Palin on Oprah's home court, expect Oprah to prevail. Because with a live audience in the studio, Oprah will get all the cheers and Palin will get very few.

17 The Left  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:44:07am

re: #6 freetoken

I wonder how long this finger pointing in the GOP will continue? Suspect that Palin is getting short-term gain at the cost of long-term vigor of the GOP.

That's exactly what I think, and I suspect many in the GOP think that way as well-- I'm certain it was and is one of the reasons why people from the McCain campaign loathe her so much. Palin thinks in terms of herself and short-term gain rather than in terms of the party.

If Palin had kept her head down, even after dumping the governorship and launching the book tour she could have had a relatively low profile, raising money for other GOP candidates and pursuing whatever media interests she has. Do that and learn a few things and she probably could have run for some national office in a couple of years with the backing of the GOP. But she really has gone rogue; she's like the brooms in the sorcerer's apprentice.

18 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:44:28am

re: #12 freetoken

The burnt bridges won't be rebuilt by 2010, IMO. Various leaders will have to rise up post 2010 to build the coalitions needed if the GOP is to rise to the task in 2012.

I'm not personally concerned with the GOP - I doubt many will ever get any more of my votes. Yet as an American I do wish that we could have more substantive debate in this country about a wide range of issues.

there is a raging debate right now over health care

19 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:44:42am

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. I'm not surprised by the pushback from McCain's people. Of course they want to say that it's fiction; they'd much rather blame McCain's failings as a candidate on the neophyte and controversial Palin instead of McCain's own issues (which were plentiful in his own right).

Everyone has a vested interest in spinning events from the 08 election in their own best interest. Palin is no different than anyone else in that regard.

20 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:45:57am

re: #18 albusteve

Speaking of raging debate over health care; NYS is contemplating raising $1 billion in taxes on health care insurers as though that is going to reduce the cost of health care. What part of passing those costs on to the consumer do these people not understand? It's sickening.

21 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:46:02am

All of the hoopla is because of the book release. This is her political swan song and it won't engratiate her with the GOP leadership (what little there is these days).

22 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:46:04am

re: #13 wozzablog

long as she keeps putting herself out there the "unemployed alaska blogger" will be put forward by the Dems as the face and voice of the GOP in lockstep with Limbaugh ... she scares independents and modertae GOP'ers ridgid.

true. she is toast as a national candidate and those who believe otherwise are deluding themselves.

23 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:48:21am

re: #19 lawhawk

More to the point, McCain has no one to blame but himself - he did after all pick her as his running mate, and as the top of the ticket the buck stops there.

Everything else we see now from his staff and others sniping at Palin is about trying to rehabilitate McCain's image.

24 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:48:49am

re: #20 lawhawk

Speaking of raging debate over health care; NYS is contemplating raising $1 billion in taxes on health care insurers as though that is going to reduce the cost of health care. What part of passing those costs on to the consumer do these people not understand? It's sickening.

that's where the money is, in the taxpayers pocket, and democrats can't keep their eyes off it

25 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:49:19am
the shaved-headed political operative

Not to pick nits but, shouldn't it be "shaven-headed"?

26 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:50:19am

re: #25 MandyManners


picking nits on either is difficult...

27 The Left  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:50:41am

re: #5 wozzablog

yeah - but - don'tcha all geddit...???

it's our fault for livinig in a reality based universe... it's not her fault that everything in her book is wrong, it's us - we are reading it wrong.

/

Andrew Sullivan, who admittedly has been a complete victim of Palin derangement syndrome in the past (he kept pushing ridiculous stories about Trig, for months) has a running list of Palin's lies which is being reprinted all over the blogosphere gleefully. I don't think it's possible for this women to give an unvetted interview ever again, unless it's in an environment where she has total control and can be sure it will be friendly (e.g. Oprah). Look at this (partial) list of potential questions just waiting for any mildly critical, let alone hostile, interviewer:

Palin lied when she said the dismissal of her public safety commissioner, Walt Monegan, had nothing to do with his refusal to fire state trooper Mike Wooten; in fact, the Branchflower Report concluded that she repeatedly abused her power when dealing with both men.

Palin lied when she repeatedly claimed to have said, "Thanks, but no thanks" to the Bridge to Nowhere; in fact, she openly campaigned for the federal project when running for governor.

Palin lied when she denied that Wasilla's police chief and librarian had been fired; in fact, both were given letters of termination the previous day.

Palin lied when she wrote in the NYT that a comprehensive review by Alaska wildlife officials showed that polar bears were not endangered; in fact, email correspondence between those scientists showed the opposite.

Palin lied when she claimed in her convention speech that an oil gas pipeline "began" under her guidance; in fact, the pipeline was years from breaking ground, if at all.

Palin lied when she told Charlie Gibson that she does not pass judgment on gay people; in fact, she opposes all rights between gay spouses and belongs to a church that promotes conversion therapy.

Palin lied when she denied having said that humans do not contribute to climate change; in fact, she had previously proclaimed that human activity was not to blame.

Palin lied when she claimed that Alaska produces 20 percent of the country's domestic energy supply; in fact, the actual figures, based on any interpretation of her words, are much, much lower.

Palin lied when she told voters she improvised her convention speech when her teleprompter stopped working properly; in fact, all reports showed that the machine had functioned perfectly and that her speech had closely followed the script.

Palin lied when she recalled asking her daughters to vote on whether she should accept the VP offer; in fact, her story contradicts details given by her husband, the McCain campaign, and even Palin herself. (She later added another version.)

Palin lied when she claimed to have taken a voluntary pay cut as mayor; in fact, as councilmember she had voted against a raise for the mayor, but subsequent raises had taken effect by the time she was mayor.

Palin lied when she insisted that Wooten's divorce proceedings had caused his confidential records to become public; in fact, court officials confirmed they released no such records.

Palin lied when she suggested to Katie Couric that she was involved in trade missions with Russia; in fact, she has never even met with Russian officials.

Lying for Palin is not a bug, it is a feature.

28 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:51:30am

re: #16 _RememberTonyC

we'll see about that. if Palin attacks the POTUS on Oprah's show, I would expect Oprah to defend him vigorously. And in a cat fight between Oprah and Palin on Oprah's home court, expect Oprah to prevail. Because with a live audience in the studio, Oprah will get all the cheers and Palin will get very few.

It will be an interesting though minor test for the remaking of Sarah.

29 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:51:56am

re: #1 Bubblehead II

Morning Charles.

Charles Foster Johnson doesn't sleep. He waits...

30 freetoken  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:52:25am

re: #18 albusteve

there is a raging debate right now over health care

rage - yes;
substance - no;

31 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:53:13am

re: #27 iceweasel

Dunno, Ice. Looks like a politician.

32 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:53:30am

It is a time honored organizational dynamic for losing teams to start pointing fingers and blaming each other. Just as it is a time honored dynamic that winning teams become convinced they can do no wrong.

I see that playing out big time with the (R) and (D) parties and their respective members.

The results of 2010 and 2012 will depend heavily on both parties getting their act together. In the case of the (R)s they need to find a central message like fiscal restraint and unify around it. In the case of the (D)s they need to start hearing their constituents and realize they have not been given carte blanche to do whatever they want with the economy.

Neither party can afford to continue to pander to their fringes and hope for national wins.

33 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:53:52am

I love when either party eats their own.

34 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:54:06am

re: #23 lawhawk

McAin should man up about selling the World a pup - but he was acting on advice from the National Review crowd.

The buck stops with JM - but there is a lot of loose change and vested interests making up the full dollar.

35 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:54:47am

re: #31 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

wink

36 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:56:00am

re: #35 wozzablog

wink

Was that a giggle from FBV?
/

37 oldegeezr  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:56:04am

Some of Ms Palin’s statements in "Going Rogue," were obtained by The Associated Press, prior to its’ release...

Sarah Palin's new book reprises familiar claims from the 2008 presidential campaign that haven't become any truer over time.

Get outtah here...
Everyone knows the AP is just all propaganda...!

38 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:57:30am

To Sarah's credit, I don't care more today than I did yesterday.

39 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:57:47am

from Lawhawks blog article...

The clandestine strategy was prompted by Democrats desperate to dodge Gov. Paterson's proposed cuts in education and more readily noticeable health-care spending, according to a source.

Top 100 pensions...

The New York State Teachers Retirement System provides pension, disability and death benefits to eligible teachers and school administrators. Currently, it covers more than 270,000 active members and more than 133,000 retirees and their beneficiaries. It is the second-largest retirement system in the state and is one of the 10 largest in the nation, according to its website.

Pension benefits provided through TRS are not subject to state and local taxes. Retirees also receive annual cost-of-living increases if they are 62 and have been retired five years or if they are 55 and have been retired 10 years.

[Link: www.newsdayinteractive.com...]

40 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:58:23am

re: #30 freetoken

rage - yes;
substance - no;

heh...I was gonna add that after I posted...you are exactly right

41 oldegeezr  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:00:15am

re: #9 DaddyG

You can already get it; for less than five bucks from NewsMax.

42 The Left  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:00:25am

re: #37 oldegeezr

Some of Ms Palin’s statements in "Going Rogue," were obtained by The Associated Press, prior to its’ release...

Get outtah here...
Everyone knows the AP is just all propaganda...!

re: #37 oldegeezr

Some of Ms Palin’s statements in "Going Rogue," were obtained by The Associated Press, prior to its’ release...

Get outtah here...
Everyone knows the AP is just all propaganda...!

I was just reading that (over at TPM though).

PALIN: Describing her resistance to federal stimulus money, Palin describes Alaska as a practical, libertarian haven of independent Americans who don't want "help" from government busybodies.

THE FACTS: Alaska is also one of the states most dependent on federal subsidies, receiving much more assistance from Washington than it pays in federal taxes. A study for the nonpartisan Tax Foundation found that in 2005, the state received $1.84 for every dollar it sent to Washington.

Socialism! Handouts! //

43 freetoken  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:00:30am

re: #17 iceweasel

Palin thinks in terms of herself and short-term gain rather than in terms of the party.

I can't really blame her for wanting to make a quick buck off of her fame, though I wonder if she thinks about what she would need from fellow Republicans in 3 or 7 years if she wants to run for the Presidency.

Given the blurb that came out about creationism, this book appears to be about reinforcing the beliefs of her supporters.

Naso Tang put up in the spinoffs a Frum piece about the Florida race, with Rubio challenging Crist. The Tea Partier divide there is telling... I wonder if Palin realizes that if she is ever to have a future in national politics she will need the Crist supporters just as much as the Rubio supporters? That's the thing with the Palin/Tea Party crowd - they really believe they don't need the "RINO"s. So they revel in burning those bridges.

44 badger1970  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:01:42am

It's just another politician using the guise of an autobiography to gloss over and embellish the facts with self promoting on the snide. Who really cares if it is true or not. The true believers and going to love it and the true haters are going to hate it.

45 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:02:01am

re: #38 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

To Sarah's credit, I don't care more today than I did yesterday.

My sentiments exactly. I hope the overblown coverage of Sarah Palin dies quickly. Is there any important news going on?

46 funky chicken  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:03:04am

re: #16 _RememberTonyC

we'll see about that. if Palin attacks the POTUS on Oprah's show, I would expect Oprah to defend him vigorously. And in a cat fight between Oprah and Palin on Oprah's home court, expect Oprah to prevail. Because with a live audience in the studio, Oprah will get all the cheers and Palin will get very few.

She won't. She's been palling around with RS McCain etc, and to them, John McCain is a despicable human being. I first ran into RS McCain over at hotair last summer/fall, and he was on the "John McCain is Satan and the worstest, worstest man/republican ever" crusade, and he and the rest of the far right haven't changed their minds yet. That Palin has chosen to throw in with that crowd tells me all I need to know about her.

So expect her to aim all her fire at John McCain and his campaign aids, especially on the Oprah show. It's a 100% safe strategy for her, and will win her more adulation from Rush Limbaugh, who likewise despised John McCain and has for at least a decade.

47 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:03:27am

re: #45 NJDhockeyfan

My sentiments exactly. I hope the overblown coverage of Sarah Palin dies quickly. Is there any important news going on?

Well, I did hear something about a bow... ///

48 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:03:33am

re: #43 freetoken

I, personally, think that she knows she's done.

49 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:03:44am

re: #33 Cannadian Club Akbar

I love when either party eats their own.

First, it was swans. Now, it's cannibalism. What are you, some kinda' cook?

50 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:03:58am

re: #45 NJDhockeyfan

My sentiments exactly. I hope the overblown coverage of Sarah Palin dies quickly. Is there any important news going on?

OOH! LOOK! SHINY!

51 badger1970  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:04:07am

re: #45 NJDhockeyfan

My sentiments exactly. I hope the overblown coverage of Sarah Palin dies quickly. Is there any important news going on?

Well there's the NAACP involved in a Wal-mart rage incident, Bill Bellichick is insane, it might get below 40 degrees tonight and my dog needs a bath. /

52 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:04:56am

re: #49 MandyManners

First, it was swans. Now, it's cannibalism. What are you, some kinda' cook?

That's funny right there.

53 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:05:02am

re: #44 badger1970

It's just another politician using the guise of an autobiography to gloss over and embellish the facts with self promoting on the snide. Who really cares if it is true or not. The true believers and going to love it and the true haters are going to hate it.

Paging Dr. Freud.

54 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:05:10am

re: #51 badger1970

Bill made the right call. Damn gutsy call, but the right call.

55 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:05:38am

re: #48 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I, personally, think that she knows she's done.

who knows...voters are are three quarters crazy in this country

56 freetoken  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:06:06am

re: #48 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I, personally, think that she knows she's done.

I find that to be quite plausible, and that she is simply taking her million dollar consolation prize now while she can.

57 The Left  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:08:03am

re: #43 freetoken

The Tea Partier divide there is telling... I wonder if Palin realizes that if she is ever to have a future in national politics she will need the Crist supporters just as much as the Rubio supporters? That's the thing with the Palin/Tea Party crowd - they really believe they don't need the "RINO"s. So they revel in burning those bridges.

I'll go check NT's link. I agree with you that she can't be blamed for looking out for herself; what's strange is that failure to see she'd need the rest of the party if she has political hopes (which unbelievably it appears she still does).

I don't get it. Just looking at virtually any poll or any demographic breakdown should tell any political consultant that it's impossible for anyone to win national office without a sizeable chunk of the middle; more people identify as independents than ever before. Yet they're doing everything to alienate or scare away the moderates, the center, and the independents.

They seem to be clinging to this fantasy of running Zombie Reagan in 2012: a personality who will be charismatic and will be swept into office partly due to a so-con and theocrat coalition--- the Religious Right Redux.
Palin is currently the top (possibly only) contender for the Zombie Reagan role.

58 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:09:15am

Palin was finished, nationally last year...here chances then at another office were zero, now it's less than that, imo...she is no politician, but a pretty good ratings raiser and talk show guest...she wants the attention and this is how she gets it

59 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:09:52am

re: #45 NJDhockeyfan

Important news? Well, there is the fact that GM lost another $1.2 billion and claims that it can start repaying a $5 billion loan from the feds, even though taxpayers sunk more than 10 times as much into the company as a form of equity. There's no chance they're going to be able to start repaying if they're still blowing through money faster than they can make it.

More to the point, that's taking into account lax accounting standards that aren't even up to GAAP standards. You can't trust the numbers GM is putting out. Great investment we've got there. The Times buries that nugget deep in its lengthy article, but here are key issues that show that the money isn't there:

G.M. said its total debt as of Sept. 30 was $17 billion, down from $94.7 billion in bankruptcy protection. The latest number includes $1.4 billion owed to the German government by G.M.’s Opel division that the company said it planned to repay by the end of this month. It does not include as much as $12.2 billion in notes and preferred stock owed to its unions in the United States in Canada to cover health care costs for retirees.

The earnings figures cover the period from July 10, when G.M. sold its desirable assets to a new company and exited bankruptcy protection, through Sept. 30. G.M. said the numbers were preliminary and could not be compared to other periods because they do not comply with generally accepted accounting principles and do not represent a full quarter.

In the first nine days of July, the “old G.M.” had negative cash flow of $3.6 billion, largely the result of huge production cuts in North America, G.M. said.

G.M. said it expected negative operating cash flow in the fourth quarter and that its cash reserves would end the year “materially lower.”

And the debt-ridden former shell of GM, Motor Liquidation Co., has nearly $33 billion in debts, and only $1.5 billion in assets. It keeps losing money too.

60 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:10:02am

re: #45 NJDhockeyfan

My sentiments exactly. I hope the overblown coverage of Sarah Palin dies quickly. Is there any important news going on?


Yeah how is that Natalie Holloway investigation coming? Or perhaps Paris Hilton and Lindsey Lohan have started a driving school?

61 countrockulot  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:10:10am

At this point if Sarah Palin were to say the sky is blue I would have to look out a window and check Snopes before I believed it.

62 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:10:17am

re: #58 albusteve

Doesn't hurt that she's hawt as hell!

63 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:11:13am

re: #59 lawhawk

Mornin' Wood!

64 funky chicken  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:11:16am

Honestly, Palin sounds like a whiny prima-donna in this excerpt. Schmidt's job is to run the campaign, which most definitely involves telling candidates things about their daily lives, schedules, and contacts. Perhaps she became fatigued at the end of a long day and he told her to eat more fat and protein so she would have more stamina. Who knows?

But the excerpt doesn't paint her in a very flattering light, IMHO.

And I was a fan a year ago.

65 Ojoe  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:11:52am

Fiction fiction
Bo biction
Banana Fana ...


Here we see the denouement of any rational politics or even governing by either of the two major parties.

Pffiibbittth.™

It is time for a new, center party or the country will run further into the ditch.

I could post a reference to the Modern Whig Party.


***


Good Morning All.

66 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:11:56am

re: #62 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Doesn't hurt that she's hawt as hell!

And if that guy picked out her clothes I have 2 words: hip boots!

67 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:12:51am

re: #66 Cannadian Club Akbar

Rawr...

68 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:13:39am

re: #57 iceweasel

I'll go check NT's link. I agree with you that she can't be blamed for looking out for herself; what's strange is that failure to see she'd need the rest of the party if she has political hopes (which unbelievably it appears she still does).

I don't get it. Just looking at virtually any poll or any demographic breakdown should tell any political consultant that it's impossible for anyone to win national office without a sizeable chunk of the middle; more people identify as independents than ever before. Yet they're doing everything to alienate or scare away the moderates, the center, and the independents.

They seem to be clinging to this fantasy of running Zombie Reagan in 2012: a personality who will be charismatic and will be swept into office partly due to a so-con and theocrat coalition--- the Religious Right Redux.
Palin is currently the top (possibly only) contender for the Zombie Reagan role.

you can never tell what will happen...a phony shell game got BO elected, so just about anything can happen...one can analyze it all they want and not come close to predicting the future

69 funky chicken  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:13:51am

re: #57 iceweasel

Ronald Reagan was neither a religio/social conservative nor a theocrat. It's a common mistake his critics from the left and his worshippers from the right make.

70 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:14:00am

re: #66 Cannadian Club Akbar

And if that guy picked out her clothes I have 2 words: hip boots!


Works for Condi...

71 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:14:27am

re: #62 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Doesn't hurt that she's hawt as hell!

oh please...hawt as hell is subjective...I don't see it

72 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:14:37am

re: #70 DaddyG

She looked very nice there.

73 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:14:47am

re: #69 funky chicken

Ronald Reagan was neither a religio/social conservative nor a theocrat. It's a common mistake his critics from the left and his worshippers from the right make.

IIRC, Reagan didn't go to church, did he?

74 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:14:54am

Some one help me out here, if the independents are running away from the Repulican party, why did they vote in mass for the Republican party two weeks ago electing two Repulican Governors?

By substancial margins I might add.

This running away by independents from the Repulican Party seems to be opinion perpetuated by a biased media so much it is taken on the status of fact. Yet in the only true test, an election, it proved to far from accurate.

75 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:15:22am

re: #71 albusteve

You're right.

Me? I think she's very attractive.

76 Ojoe  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:15:28am

re: #64 funky chicken

eat more fat and protein

Good idea.

Better than Obama's 'can't eat all we want or other countries won't say OK.'

77 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:15:51am

re: #74 filetandrelease

Some one help me out here, if the independents are running away from the Repulican party, why did they vote in mass for the Republican party two weeks ago electing two Repulican Governors?

By substancial margins I might add.

This running away by independents from the Repulican Party seems to be opinion perpetuated by a biased media so much it is taken on the status of fact. Yet in the only true test, an election, it proved to far from accurate.

Question the MFM meme, why don'tcha'?

78 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:16:18am

re: #70 DaddyG

Works for Condi...

That's a great picture of Condi.

79 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:16:23am

re: #72 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

She looked very nice there.

Power and femininity all rolled up into one. I thought it was well done.

80 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:16:33am

General Motors is gone, except in the minds of the BO administration and GMs tax accountants...
Govt Motor now

81 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:16:48am

re: #69 funky chicken

He wasn't. But a lot of his electoral support was - which is the point Ice was makinbg - i think.

82 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:17:34am

re: #74 filetandrelease

Some one help me out here, if the independents are running away from the Repulican party, why did they vote in mass for the Republican party two weeks ago electing two Repulican Governors?

By substancial margins I might add.

This running away by independents from the Repulican Party seems to be opinion perpetuated by a biased media so much it is taken on the status of fact. Yet in the only true test, an election, it proved to far from accurate.


Well the real race was NY23 - that was the true bellweather of National Politics not those silly Governorships. /Channeling San Fran Nan

83 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:17:38am

re: #68 albusteve

you can never tell what will happen...a phony shell game got BO elected, so just about anything can happen...one can analyze it all they want and not come close to predicting the future

What phony shell game was that?

84 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:17:40am

re: #79 DaddyG

Power and femininity all rolled up into one. I thought it was well done.

and she plays a mean piano I hear

85 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:18:16am

re: #84 albusteve

and she plays a mean piano I hear

And loves football.

86 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:18:18am

re: #57 iceweasel

I'm still holding out for Zombie Lincoln...

[Link: www.zombiepresidents.com...]

87 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:18:53am

re: #84 albusteve

and she plays a mean piano I hear

re: #85 Cannadian Club Akbar

And loves football.

Some lucky guy is going to discover her one day. :-)

88 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:19:31am

re: #82 DaddyG

Well the real race was NY23 - that was the true bellweather of National Politics not those silly Governorships. /Channeling San Fran Nan

Exactly, that one had almost 200,000 votes in it.

89 The Left  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:19:54am

re: #69 funky chicken

Ronald Reagan was neither a religio/social conservative nor a theocrat. It's a common mistake his critics from the left and his worshippers from the right make.

I am aware of that. It is also true that starting with Reagan's candidacy the GOP made an alliance with the religious right which helped them gain and maintain power (altho Reagan was neither of those things himself).

That's why I said the GOP is looking for a Zombie Reagan: not an actual new reagan, but some sort of bastardised version of a faux-reagan that would have the magical quality of energizing that base for them again, while reanimating nothing that was good or genuine about Reagan.

90 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:20:15am

re: #86 wozzablog

I'm still holding out for Zombie Lincoln...

[Link: www.zombiepresidents.com...]


That is incredibly distasteful - particularly the head wounds on Lincoln and Kennedy... and I am laughing my @$$ off!

91 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:20:31am

re: #82 DaddyG

Virginia is a Red State the Red Party reclaimed after a short gap of a year as a Blue presidential win (blip - in other words) - NY23 was the first evidence of teabaggers having an effect on a legit political contecst.

There was a reason it was the focal point.

92 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:21:39am

re: #89 iceweasel
Ahhh for the good old days when the religious right was another constituency and not a spoiled brat wanting everything their way...

93 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:21:53am

re: #83 Obdicut

What phony shell game was that?

empty rhetoric, empty experience, empty leadership, empty suit, empty shell of a candidate

94 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:22:53am

re: #85 Cannadian Club Akbar

And loves football.

oh man!...I forgot about that...perfect right there...I think she said her dream job would be NFL Commissioner!

95 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:22:55am

re: #90 DaddyG

the race is - unforunately already over where it matters though...

Zombie Lincoln has 160 myspace friends.
Zombie Regean has 367

96 oldegeezr  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:23:39am

re: #66 Cannadian Club Akbar

Bib waders...?

97 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:24:25am

re: #96 oldegeezr

Bib waders...?


Don't tell me... your fantasy is to Salmon fish with Sarah? /

98 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:25:19am

re: #97 DaddyG

Don't tell me... your fantasy is to Salmon fish with Sarah? /

can she clean fish too?...wow

99 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:25:38am

re: #93 albusteve

empty rhetoric, empty experience, empty leadership, empty suit, empty shell of a candidate

Uh, okay.

That wouldn't make it a shell game that got him elected. By calling it a shell game, you're pretty much implying that the election itself is a shell game.

You also sound kind of silly, not to mention tautological and hyperbolic. You may find Obama's experience lacking, but to call it 'empty' is foolish.

100 Hawkins  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:25:51am

re: #16 _RememberTonyC

if Palin attacks the POTUS on Oprah's show, I would expect Oprah to defend him vigorously. And in a cat fight between Oprah and Palin on Oprah's home court, expect Oprah to prevail. Because with a live audience in the studio, Oprah will get all the cheers and Palin will get very few.

Oh, please, please, let her take the bait, and start that fight. Mrs. Palin is just tone-deaf and self-assured enough to do so.

Perhaps this will accelerate her progression to the dustbin of history in time for control of the GOP to return to the... well, I was going to say pragmatic moderates, but at this point I'll settle for non-lunatics.

101 oldegeezr  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:27:05am

re: #42 iceweasel

TPM, AP...same old, same olde!

102 dugmartsch  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:27:26am

re: #74 filetandrelease

Some one help me out here, if the independents are running away from the Repulican party, why did they vote in mass for the Republican party two weeks ago electing two Repulican Governors?

By substancial margins I might add.

This running away by independents from the Repulican Party seems to be opinion perpetuated by a biased media so much it is taken on the status of fact. Yet in the only true test, an election, it proved to far from accurate.

Because you ran two pro-Obama centrists, who would've been RINOs in any state south of North Carolina.

Anything else i can help you with?

103 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:27:49am

more om Palins unfuture in politics...BoB Shieffer pokes his knows in

[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]

104 Ojoe  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:28:22am

Oprah is "Harpo" backwards.

Politics in this country would actually be improved if the Marx brothers were participating.

105 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:28:48am

re: #99 Obdicut

Uh, okay.

That wouldn't make it a shell game that got him elected. By calling it a shell game, you're pretty much implying that the election itself is a shell game.

You also sound kind of silly, not to mention tautological and hyperbolic. You may find Obama's experience lacking, but to call it 'empty' is foolish.

I could care less what you think of my opinions

106 oldegeezr  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:28:50am

re: #97 DaddyG

He, he, heh...!

107 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:29:43am

re: #104 Ojoe

Oprah is "Harpo" backwards.

Politics in this country would actually be improved if the Marx brothers were participating.

Harpo Winfrey!...good one

108 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:29:46am

re: #102 dugmartsch

Because you ran two pro-Obama centrists, who would've been RINOs in any state south of North Carolina.

Anything else i can help you with?

Well, and the Democratic candidates were truly terrible, and ran absolutely god-awful campaigns.

109 Ojoe  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:30:13am
110 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:30:34am

re: #108 Obdicut

Well, and the Democratic candidates were truly terrible, and ran absolutely god-awful campaigns.


Perhaps there is a book deal and an Oprah interview in their future?

111 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:31:56am

re: #102 dugmartsch

Because you ran two pro-Obama centrists, who would've been RINOs in any state south of North Carolina.

Anything else i can help you with?

So, the independents aren't running away, but would rather vote for the better candidate?

My take exactly. This running away from the R is just nonsense.

112 Dynomite  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:32:14am

re: #54 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Bill made the right call. Damn gutsy call, but the right call.

Even if the call works, I still say it was the wrong call. And Bill had already screwed his defense by risking (and losing) Banta-Cain on special teams.

As opposed to Del Rio & the Jaguars yesterday, who even if Scobee misses the gimme, made the right call.

113 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:32:48am

Oh noes! Obama bowed to the Japanese emperor! That proves that he's a seekrit muslim!

[Link: latimesblogs.latimes.com...]

114 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:32:58am

re: #109 Ojoe


A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five.


;-)

115 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:33:12am

re: #109 Ojoe

Rx for American Politics.

And they have experience in leading a country...
Hail Freedonia!

116 FrogMarch  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:33:12am

re: #20 lawhawk

Speaking of raging debate over health care; NYS is contemplating raising $1 billion in taxes on health care insurers as though that is going to reduce the cost of health care. What part of passing those costs on to the consumer do these people not understand? It's sickening.

If we could just punish everyone into submission, everything would be perfect.

117 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:33:57am

re: #113 Mad Al-Jaffee

Oh noes! Obama bowed to the Japanese emperor! That proves that he's a seekrit muslim!

[Link: latimesblogs.latimes.com...]

An idiot yes, a seekrit mulsim, no.

118 Mr.Boots  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:34:18am

Her book is "in the bargain bin" now, before it has even been officially released. 69% discount, I believe. $9 at Amazon. By Easter, it will be a free gift with the Sham-wow.

re: #9 DaddyG

I doubt Palin will get much more oomph past this book. Any gain is going to be very short term and her book will be in the bargain bin by Easter. This is a non-issue for the 2010 elections IMO.

119 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:35:02am

Wanted: Dead Heads and Pot Heads

Dead heads and pot heads take note. While the straight economy goes up in smoke with double digit unemployment, job prospects for hippies are booming -- and not just for boomers.

At the University of California at Santa Cruz (UCSC) they're looking to hire an official Grateful Dead archivist.

And in Denver, where Colorado's medical marijuana industry is legally flourishing, there are these two recent job postings:

The alternative newspaper Westword is advertising for a pot reviewer, asking for a short essay from applicants on "What Marijuana Means to Me".

Similarly, a new biotech company, Full Spectrum Laboratories, needs scientists to test the potency of cannabis samples and salesmen to market their quality-control tools.

120 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:35:08am

re: #111 filetandrelease

So, the independents aren't running away, but would rather vote for the better candidate?

My take exactly. This running away from the R is just nonsense.

Del Shannon...

121 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:35:44am

re: #110 DaddyG

Perhaps there is a book deal and an Oprah interview in their future?

Corzine could write a great 'how to lose an election by forcing a government shutdown when you insist on a tax hike' book.

So could most of the state reps and senators, though as the governor, he takes the hit for it more than they do.

122 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:35:56am

re: #118 Mr.Boots

Her book is "in the bargain bin" now, before it has even been officially released. 69% discount, I believe. $9 at Amazon. By Easter, it will be a free gift with the Sham-wow.

Nothing to do with anything except that Walmart/Target/Amazon are in a book price war...9.00 new books thru Amazon was met by Walmart. Then Target weighed in at 8.99 IIRC...

123 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:36:29am

re: #119 NJDhockeyfan

Wanted: Dead Heads and Pot Heads

I wonder how many rolling paper resumes they will get?

124 SixDegrees  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:36:39am

re: #9 DaddyG

I doubt Palin will get much more oomph past this book. Any gain is going to be very short term and her book will be in the bargain bin by Easter. This is a non-issue for the 2010 elections IMO.

It's already in the bargain bin: Amazon has been offering it at 70% off list for weeks, and that discount is still available even today, just prior to release.

Also, the publisher moved the release date up by several months - it was originally due out next spring - in a pretty obvious effort to cash in on Palin's rapidly diminishing national profile before her fifteen minutes expire.

125 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:37:06am

re: #123 DaddyG

I wonder how many rolling paper resumes they will get?

On Big Bambui papers!!

126 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:37:27am

re: #124 SixDegrees

See my 122.

127 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:38:04am

re: #122 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That is not meant as a defense for Sarah, but it is a fact.

Let's make sure we insert facts.

128 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:38:39am
129 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:39:26am

re: #128 lawhawk

There are rumors that Corzine might go head up Bank of America when he's done in January.

Wasn't he at Goldman Sachs before becoming gubner?

130 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:39:53am

re: #128 lawhawk

There are rumors that Corzine might go head up Bank of America when he's done in January.


Time to look into the local credit union.

131 Spider Mensch  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:40:16am

re: #111 filetandrelease

So, the independents aren't running away, but would rather vote for the better candidate?

My take exactly. This running away from the R is just nonsense.

it's what the media wants you to believe..it's their meme...and as far as Palin...a recent visit to cnn's web page..I counted 3 seperate stories/articles about her...the media wants her to be around...they feel she's easily defeatable in 2012, keeping their man in office...so they are going to keep her alive no matter what...she is a polarizing celebrity, love her or hate her...but the o would slam dunk her in 2012 election...I'm a right leaning voter..and even I admit that.

132 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:40:18am

bbiab

133 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:40:23am

re: #127 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That is not meant as a defense for Sarah, but it is a fact.

Let's make sure we insert facts.

Facts are for people lacking in imagination. /

134 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:40:33am

re: #119 NJDhockeyfan

Wanted: Dead Heads and Pot Heads

Similarly, a new biotech company, Full Spectrum Laboratories, needs scientists to test the potency of cannabis samples and salesmen to market their quality-control tools.

I'm not a scientist but,...

135 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:41:25am

re: #134 MandyManners

Similarly, a new biotech company, Full Spectrum Laboratories, needs scientists to test the potency of cannabis samples and salesmen to market their quality-control tools.

I'm not a scientist but,...


Does the job come with all you can eat pringles and oreos? If not the expenses could be killer.

136 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:42:00am

re: #135 DaddyG

Doritos sandwiches... mmm

137 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:42:38am

re: #135 DaddyG

Does the job come with all you can eat pringles and oreos? If not the expenses could be killer.

You forgot Cheetos.

138 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:42:42am

re: #136 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Doritos sandwiches... mmm


Not that I would know about that sort of thing...

139 SixDegrees  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:43:45am

re: #126 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

See my 122.

Amazon, at least, is certainly heavily discounting their hardcovers. But 70% off is a lot, even when that's taken into account. A quick spot check of other hardcovers turns up discounts in the 12% - 50% range.

140 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:45:26am

Every time Sarah Palin is mentioned in the press, a baby unicorn gets its horn.

141 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:45:53am

i have to go drink beer and mend stuff.

Later days all.

142 Dynomite  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:47:33am

re: #74 filetandrelease

Some one help me out here, if the independents are running away from the Repulican party, why did they vote in mass for the Republican party two weeks ago electing two Repulican Governors?

By substancial margins I might add.

This running away by independents from the Repulican Party seems to be opinion perpetuated by a biased media so much it is taken on the status of fact. Yet in the only true test, an election, it proved to far from accurate.

Um... Virginia & New Jersey. Two states, two state elections with local issues much bigger than any national picture. So you want to take the local elections from two states as a better bellwether than the national elections?

Who's speaking from bias here?

143 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:48:05am

re: #112 Dynomite

Hey! I play quarterback on Monday's too!
/

With 2:08 minutes left in a game, with the Colts, IMO, there's not a lot of difference between 28 yards and 80 yards. Best way to keep Manning from driving and scoring is keeping Manning on the sideline.

Same goes for Brady. I'd done the same from either sideline.

Anybody ever wondered why I am not an NFL coach? Probably not.

144 The Left  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:48:30am

re: #139 SixDegrees

Amazon, at least, is certainly heavily discounting their hardcovers. But 70% off is a lot, even when that's taken into account. A quick spot check of other hardcovers turns up discounts in the 12% - 50% range.

They moved up the release date (which never happens!) and there is going to be only this one initial very large print run. There are more books than there are people to buy them, so they're relying on bulk buys from conservative outlets (and the preorders) to help boost it onto the bestseller lists. There will be a big bump in sales because of the Oprah effect, and then it's destined for the remainder bin. I wonder if the book will still be selling at all by christmas.

145 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:48:46am

This might get juicy...

Allegations of Wrongdoing by SEIU and Its President Andy Stern

First, via Instapundit, we have Big Government reporting on allegations of illegal tactics by the SEIU in a union election. The allegations, made in a sworn affidavit by a former SEIU worker, include “changing ballots and threatening to report a worker to immigration officials,” according to the Wall Street Journal.

Second, via Hot Air, we have an exclusive report of a letter from Americans for Tax Reform and the Alliance for Worker Freedom seeking an investigation of SEIU president Andy Stern for allegedly lobbying despite being unregistered as a lobbyist. The evidence includes Stern’s Twitter feeds, where he says things like this:

Lobbying with Mayor Bloomberg on health care. Leaving Senator Snowe. Mayor big proponent of keeping people healthy and the right public plan

Now might be a good time to recall that the release of White House visitor logs showed that Stern was the most frequent visitor to the White House. Browsing through Stern’s Twitter feed, I saw this entry from February 18:

just left White House where group from MoveOn to Chamber of Commerce but mostly progressives had cocktails with Prez and VP

It’s progressive heaven!

146 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:49:50am

re: #145 NJDhockeyfan

This might get juicy...

Allegations of Wrongdoing by SEIU and Its President Andy Stern

another rotten egg on BOs plate...seems like all his friends stink

147 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:50:00am

re: #131 Spider Mensch

it's what the media wants you to believe..it's their meme...and as far as Palin...a recent visit to cnn's web page..I counted 3 seperate stories/articles about her...the media wants her to be around...they feel she's easily defeatable in 2012, keeping their man in office...so they are going to keep her alive no matter what...she is a polarizing celebrity, love her or hate her...but the o would slam dunk her in 2012 election...I'm a right leaning voter..and even I admit that.

Quite Concur.

148 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:50:18am

re: #122 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Nothing to do with anything except that Walmart/Target/Amazon are in a book price war...9.00 new books thru Amazon was met by Walmart. Then Target weighed in at 8.99 IIRC...

It is also number 1 on the charts for Amazon.

149 Semper Fi  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:50:35am

re: #47 lawhawk

Well, I did hear something about a bow... ///

Priceless!

Lol

150 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:50:39am

re: #139 SixDegrees

Book price war story...

151 Dynomite  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:51:51am

re: #131 Spider Mensch

it's what the media wants you to believe..it's their meme...and as far as Palin...a recent visit to cnn's web page..I counted 3 seperate stories/articles about her...the media wants her to be around...they feel she's easily defeatable in 2012, keeping their man in office...so they are going to keep her alive no matter what...she is a polarizing celebrity, love her or hate her...but the o would slam dunk her in 2012 election...I'm a right leaning voter..and even I admit that.

Ah, the "media hates her" meme.

If she's not in the news, it's that horrible liberal media ignoring her.

If she's in the news, it's that horrible liberal media wanting her around so they can defeat her.

Great both-sides-of-the-fence stuff here. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

153 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:52:31am

re: #144 iceweasel

Oh, I agree. I was just pointing out why it was nine bucks.

Michael Crichton's new book is also $9.00.

He's dead too.

154 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:53:11am

Now reality has produced numbers of its own. In every month since May, the unemployment rate has been roughly a percentage point higher than the chart’s grimmer, stimulus-free scenario. This October, when Obama’s advisers predicted that unemployment would stand at 8 percent with the stimulus and just under 9 percent without it, the actual jobless rate leaped to 10.4 percent.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]


time for another...stimulus?

155 Dynomite  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:53:45am

re: #143 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hey! I play quarterback on Monday's too!
/

With 2:08 minutes left in a game, with the Colts, IMO, there's not a lot of difference between 28 yards and 80 yards. Best way to keep Manning from driving and scoring is keeping Manning on the sideline.

Same goes for Brady. I'd done the same from either sideline.

Anybody ever wondered why I am not an NFL coach? Probably not.

Monday Morning QBs are the best. We never lose a game!

156 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:54:00am

re: #151 Dynomite

...ummm that is a very creative reading of Spider Mench's comments.

157 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:54:12am

re: #142 Dynomite

Um... Virginia & New Jersey. Two states, two state elections with local issues much bigger than any national picture. So you want to take the local elections from two states as a better bellwether than the national elections?

Who's speaking from bias here?

Local elections in NJ mirror the national scene in many respects, not the least of which is a moribund economy, Democrats outnumber GOPers in NJ by a healthy margin, and there are concerns about taxes and business climate.

Yeah, but remember there's no similar issues on the national level. /

Seriously though, trying to extrapolate from any one local election to what happens in 435 Congressional races next year isn't going to work because each district has its own set of issues but there are dominant ones - the economy, jobs, and taxes. Health care is on the list too, and while Corzine raised it as an issue in the campaign, it just didn't really resonate with voters.

158 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:55:15am

re: #151 Dynomite

Ah, the "media hates her" meme.

If she's not in the news, it's that horrible liberal media ignoring her.

If she's in the news, it's that horrible liberal media wanting her around so they can defeat her.

Great both-sides-of-the-fence stuff here. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

so what's your take on Palins march down the political celebrity road?

159 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:55:57am

re: #145 NJDhockeyfan

This might get juicy...

Allegations of Wrongdoing by SEIU and Its President Andy Stern

IIRC, Stern's been a guest at the White House more than anyone else.

160 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:56:25am

re: #33 Cannadian Club Akbar

I love when either party eats their own.

Creative destruction.

161 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:56:42am

re: #159 MandyManners

IIRC, Stern's been a guest at the White House more than anyone else.

Number one visitor I think.

162 Spider Mensch  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:56:56am

re: #151 Dynomite

Ah, the "media hates her" meme.

If she's not in the news, it's that horrible liberal media ignoring her.

If she's in the news, it's that horrible liberal media wanting her around so they can defeat her.

Great both-sides-of-the-fence stuff here. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

I'm no fan,
I don't think they'd be damned..if they didn't...just stating my opinion though. and you don't need to tell me what I wrote..I read my post before I hit send.

163 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:56:58am

re: #152 Dark_Falcon

Can we really trust Hot Air at this point? I'm not going after you, just asking.

it's from the WSJ and Fresno Bee

164 Dynomite  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:57:13am

re: #156 DaddyG

...ummm that is a very creative reading of Spider Mench's comments.

"...the media wants her to be around...they feel she's easily defeatable in 2012, keeping their man in office...so they are going to keep her alive no matter what"

Nothing creative there. He's the one side of the fence - I've heard the other argument here too in the past (the media wants to supress her).

165 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:57:16am

re: #161 NJDhockeyfan

Number one visitor I think.

I thought that was the Jonas Brothers? /

166 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:57:29am

re: #90 DaddyG

That is incredibly distasteful - particularly the head wounds on Lincoln and Kennedy... and I am laughing my @$$ off!

Don't you just love humor that makes you laugh like blazes and then say "that's not funny"?

167 Dynomite  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:58:06am

re: #158 albusteve

so what's your take on Palins march down the political celebrity road?

The same as Lindsay Lohan or Paris Hilton (or Joe the Plumber).

168 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:58:26am

re: #151 Dynomite

Ah, the "media hates her" meme.

If she's not in the news, it's that horrible liberal media ignoring her.

If she's in the news, it's that horrible liberal media wanting her around so they can defeat her.

Great both-sides-of-the-fence stuff here. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

So Palin is playing the media like a fiddle, eh?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

169 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:58:55am

re: #161 NJDhockeyfan

Number one visitor I think.

Eliot Spitzer was number 6 or 7. Oh, the WH!!

170 Spider Mensch  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:58:56am

re: #156 DaddyG

...ummm that is a very creative reading of Spider Mench's comments.

he didn't really read what I was responding to..the "meme" was the death of the republican party...and the palin comment was just my opinion

171 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:59:23am

re: #167 Dynomite

The same as Lindsay Lohan or Paris Hilton (or Joe the Plumber).

your criticism of other post had more depth than that answer

172 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:59:23am

re: #167 Dynomite

The same as Lindsay Lohan or Paris Hilton (or Joe the Plumber).

Like how I feel about all of this?
:)

173 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:00:01am

re: #164 Dynomite

"...the media wants her to be around...they feel she's easily defeatable in 2012, keeping their man in office...so they are going to keep her alive no matter what"

Nothing creative there. He's the one side of the fence - I've heard the other argument here too in the past (the media wants to supress her).


You put the "media hates her" in quotes. That isn't what was said. Putting words in other posters virtual "mouths" isn't cool. But it seems SM has just told you that himself.

174 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:00:22am

re: #163 albusteve

it's from the WSJ and Fresno Bee

Good. Then it does have some basis. The SEIU leadership is an excellent target for the GOP. The entire party hates them, and they can be made into villains to the public with the proper effort. Stern should be attacked and tarred as much as the facts will support. He's a strong ally of Obama and wounding him will wound Obama.

175 dugmartsch  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:00:24am

re: #111 filetandrelease

So, the independents aren't running away, but would rather vote for the better candidate?

My take exactly. This running away from the R is just nonsense.

The better candidate who would be considered a commie liberal in traditional republican strongholds.

If those are the candidates you want to build the Republican Party around then i say...well awesome actually. Neither was a crazy fundie loon. I guess it's good that the Republicans will elect candidates that aren't misogynistic christian fundamentalists. Sad though that that is my first question when i see one on the ballot.

176 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:00:43am

re: #166 The Sanity Inspector

Don't you just love humor that makes you laugh like blazes and then say "that's not funny"?

It was funny alright. I just feel dirty for liking it. :-)

177 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:01:23am

re: #176 DaddyG

It was funny alright. I just feel dirty for liking it. :-)

Welcome to the Darkside. We have cookies & beer!

178 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:01:52am

re: #174 Dark_Falcon

Good. Then it does have some basis. The SEIU leadership is an excellent target for the GOP. The entire party hates them, and they can be made into villains to the public with the proper effort. Stern should be attacked and tarred as much as the facts will support. He's a strong ally of Obama and wounding him will wound Obama.

the GOP will miss by a mile...pea shooters are not very accurate

179 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:01:55am

re: #161 NJDhockeyfan

Number one visitor I think.

I posted a link within the past two weeks. I'm too lazy to find it.

180 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:01:58am

re: #171 albusteve

your criticism of other post had more depth than that answer

Which isn't saying much about depth either way.

181 Dynomite  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:02:04am

re: #171 albusteve

your criticism of other post had more depth than that answer

Refer to Varek's #172

Cult of celebrity, with no meaning. I look at her march just like LL or PH. I don't care - it, like the subject, is irrelevant. Palin came in with promise, and wilted under the lights. Now she's just another celebutante to watch & gawk at, with no consequence.

182 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:04:20am

re: #181 Dynomite

Refer to Varek's #172

Cult of celebrity, with no meaning. I look at her march just like LL or PH. I don't care - it, like the subject, is irrelevant. Palin came in with promise, and wilted under the lights. Now she's just another celebutante to watch & gawk at, with no consequence.

I doubt she wears short skirts with no undies.

183 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:04:25am

re: #142 Dynomite

Um... Virginia & New Jersey. Two states, two state elections with local issues much bigger than any national picture. So you want to take the local elections from two states as a better bellwether than the national elections?

Who's speaking from bias here?

What you say is true, (except the biased part) however that doesn't change the fact that independents voted Republican in these two elections by a huge margin. The turnout was in the millions.

What actual evidence is there suggesting the indepents are leaving the Repulican party? A pole? CNN?

An election by any measure is a much more reliable indicator than poles, opinions or anything else for that matter. The larger the better.

That independents voted overwhelmingly Republican in a two very large races is a fact.

184 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:04:34am

re: #181 Dynomite

Refer to Varek's #172

Cult of celebrity, with no meaning. I look at her march just like LL or PH. I don't care - it, like the subject, is irrelevant. Palin came in with promise, and wilted under the lights. Now she's just another celebutante to watch & gawk at, with no consequence.


That I agree with. I don't think she factors in politics much after this book tour. I do think the MSM is infatuated with her because of the polarizing image. Anything for headlines.

185 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:04:37am

re: #181 Dynomite

Refer to Varek's #172

Cult of celebrity, with no meaning. I look at her march just like LL or PH. I don't care - it, like the subject, is irrelevant. Palin came in with promise, and wilted under the lights. Now she's just another celebutante to watch & gawk at, with no consequence.

It's comments like yours that make me pull for her...and I don't even like her!

186 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:04:48am

re: #181 Dynomite

Refer to Varek's #172

Cult of celebrity, with no meaning. I look at her march just like LL or PH. I don't care - it, like the subject, is irrelevant. Palin came in with promise, and wilted under the lights. Now she's just another celebutante to watch & gawk at, with no consequence.

and the MSM is doing the watching and gawking...why do you suppose that is?...why do they have any interest in her?...that was the question, you are only stating the obvious

187 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:04:49am

re: #181 Dynomite

Refer to Varek's #172

Cult of celebrity, with no meaning. I look at her march just like LL or PH. I don't care - it, like the subject, is irrelevant. Palin came in with promise, and wilted under the lights. Now she's just another celebutante to watch & gawk at, with no consequence.

Mostly agree, but she can have the kind of consequence that brought
NY23.

188 The Left  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:05:27am

re: #173 DaddyG

You put the "media hates her" in quotes. That isn't what was said. Putting words in other posters virtual "mouths" isn't cool. But it seems SM has just told you that himself.

By putting it in quotes he wasn't attempting to attribute it to him, but capturing the meme he's talking about. "Media hates her", just like we might put "Obama was born in Kenya!" in quotes to denote another meme, without meaning that a specific poster was literally saying that.

That's how I read it anyway.

189 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:05:51am

OT: On the one hand, 15 years in jail for cutting in line at Wal-Mart is ridiculous on its face. On the other hand, someone should get Stephen Hawking on the phone, because we may have found the center of the universe.

190 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:06:30am

re: #188 iceweasel

By putting it in quotes he wasn't attempting to attribute it to him, but capturing the meme he's talking about. "Media hates her", just like we might put "Obama was born in Kenya!" in quotes to denote another meme, without meaning that a specific poster was literally saying that.

That's how I read it anyway.


Heh. You and I are now interpreting for Dynomite and Spider Mench. This is going to end badly... ;-)

191 Dynomite  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:06:36am

re: #186 albusteve

and the MSM is doing the watching and gawking...why do you suppose that is?...why do they have any interest in her?...that was the question, you are only stating the obvious

The same reason the MSM (it's not just entertainment media) has interest in the celebutantes. They think it sells newspapers.

It's all about the Benjamins. There's no agenda with Palin other than they think it sells.

192 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:08:32am

re: #157 lawhawk

My question has more to do with independents leaving the Republican party. It seems to me in the first real test of this new reality, it was proven vastly overstated at best, and completely false at worst.

My question is what proof is there of this loosing the independents by the Republicans. I understand it is a popularly held opinion by many on both sides of the isle.

193 lazardo  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:09:22am

OT

Charles has a PS3!?

194 Spider Mensch  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:09:42am

re: #188 iceweasel

By putting it in quotes he wasn't attempting to attribute it to him, but capturing the meme he's talking about. "Media hates her", just like we might put "Obama was born in Kenya!" in quotes to denote another meme, without meaning that a specific poster was literally saying that.

That's how I read it anyway.


you didn't read what I originally responded to either...actually my opinion was the media likes and wants her around...you're attributing dynamites interpretation of my original post to me...but I have no time to argue it anyways..cie la vie.

195 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:10:10am

re: #192 filetandrelease

My question has more to do with independents leaving the Republican party. It seems to me in the first real test of this new reality, it was proven vastly overstated at best, and completely false at worst.

My question is what proof is there of this loosing the independents by the Republicans. I understand it is a popularly held opinion by many on both sides of the isle.

because Killgore says so?...I say wait til next year and see what happens...I don't take speculation for fact

196 Dynomite  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:10:53am

re: #195 albusteve

because Killgore says so?...I say wait til next year and see what happens...I don't take speculation for fact

I'll second that. Conventional wisdom is usually neither.

197 The Left  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:11:36am

re: #194 Spider Mensch

you didn't read what I originally responded to either...actually my opinion was the media likes and wants her around...you're attributing dynamites interpretation of my original post to me...but I have no time to argue it anyways..cie la vie.

I didn't attribute anything to you at all.
But it's cool. c'est la vie is fine with me!

198 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:11:57am

re: #191 Dynomite

The same reason the MSM (it's not just entertainment media) has interest in the celebutantes. They think it sells newspapers.

It's all about the Benjamins. There's no agenda with Palin other than they think it sells.

I think that is their primary motive. I wouldn't discount a little PDS on the side. They were awful quick to destroy her image even before she did much work on that project herself.

The Media and Washington elites don't like upstarts from flyover country.

199 Spider Mensch  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:12:31am

re: #197 iceweasel

I didn't attribute anything to you at all.
But it's cool. c'est la vie is fine with me!


;)

200 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:13:13am

re: #189 The Sanity Inspector

OT: On the one hand, 15 years in jail for cutting in line at Wal-Mart is ridiculous on its face. On the other hand, someone should get Stephen Hawking on the phone, because we may have found the center of the universe.

She won't get 15 years. She will get a criminal record out of it. She should have taken the plea deal. If they offer you a deal that does not involve a felony conviction when you are facing felony charges, take the deal (even if you haven't done anything wrong). It's a lot smarter than taking your chances at trial.

201 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:13:40am

re: #192 filetandrelease

In NJ at least, independents broke to Christie the GOP candidate in larger numbers than they did for Corzine. This is the same group that broke strong for Obama in last year's presidential run.

I'm not sure that you can say that it's independents leaving the GOP nearly as much as independents aligning themselves with the candidate they think more represents their interests. I see the independents as a shifting bloc of voters who vote according to their own whims and needs; not mere party line voters.

202 The Left  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:13:51am
CNN was so sick of Lou Dobbs, it gave him an $8 million severance package to leave, The NY Post has learned.

[Link: www.nypost.com...]

The end came quickly once the exit package had been negotiated, said Robert Dilenschneider, a spokesman for the anchorman.

Originally, plans had been for Dobbs to announce his decision to leave during last Friday night's broadcast.

"But when his assistant asked, 'Lou, do you really want to leave on Friday the 13th?' he decided to make it Wednesday instead," Dilenschneider said.

Dobbs is set to give his first TV interview since then to Fox News' Bill O'Reilly tonight, leading to speculation that he may be headed there. But TV insiders said such a move is highly unlikely.

Talk about a possible political career -- possibly as candidate for the Senate from New Jersey in 2012 -- is also probably overblown, friends said.

"He couldn't stand the scrutiny," said one colleague.

203 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:14:18am

re: #201 lawhawk

Thank you.

204 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:15:35am

attack dog Ralph Peters lays it out pretty good I'd say

Half a year ago in Cairo, President Obama addressed the Muslim world. Global leftists lauded the speech as heralding instant change in the Middle East.
The Obama-adoring pundits were right. Change came. But it's all bad.


[Link: www.nypost.com...]

205 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:15:58am

There is evidence that both parties are failing to attract people who identify as (D) or (R) party candidates. That is different from the (I)s voting disproportionately for the center right candidates in the last election cycle. The third party nonsense in NY notwithstanding.

IMO - If the (D)s want to ignore the message sent during the midterms they are whistling past the political graveyard.

206 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:16:06am

Off to work. BBT

207 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:16:08am
208 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:17:13am

re: #202 iceweasel

Like CNN has that kind of money to throw around because it was "sick" of Dobbs? Sorry, but that's all so much spin too. It's a cable network that is getting a fraction of the ratings that its competitors are getting, which means its ad revenues are down, and that its nearest competitors are the Travel Channel, not MSNBC or FoxNews, let alone the broadcast networks. Still, Dobbs strikes me as a prima donna who probably thought that he could get away with whatever he wanted, and the executives decided they had enough of it - whether it was nirtherism or just the sagging ratings and the need to something to turn things around.

209 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:18:28am

re: #198 DaddyG

I think that is their primary motive. I wouldn't discount a little PDS on the side. They were awful quick to destroy her image even before she did much work on that project herself.

The Media and Washington elites don't like upstarts from flyover country.

it's not just the money...and if anyone thinks it is they are loony...shaping the image is even more important, influencing people

210 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:18:47am

If anyone in my office is tired of me I'd gladly take $8mm to step down.

211 lazardo  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:19:52am

Aw, hell. I'm goin' to bed early. Sorry I couldn't stay long.

OT again: If any of you happen to be on PS3, just drop a friend invitation, my PlayStation Network username is my LGF username. Maybe we can find something to do.

Cheers.

212 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:20:34am

re: #207 The Sanity Inspector

Tonight In Jumbled Land

three hour high energy gig...pretty impressive...maybe he has a day or two off before his next show

213 lazardo  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:20:36am

re: #210 DaddyG

If anyone in my office is tired of me I'd gladly take $9mm to step down.

fix'd.

/ ;D

/ k, actually sleepin now.

214 The Left  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:21:00am

re: #208 lawhawk

Dobbs strikes me as a prima donna who probably thought that he could get away with whatever he wanted, and the executives decided they had enough of it - whether it was nirtherism or just the sagging ratings and the need to something to turn things around.

Probably both. Then again, they did say initially they'd told him he could just keep the opinion on the radio show and off the news anchor coverage, and he just couldn't seem to keep doing it.
I'm sure money is the motivating factor for the decision in any case, as with any corporate decision.

215 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:21:47am

re: #213 lazardo

fix'd.

/ ;D

/ k, actually sleepin now.

Don't forget to set your alarm clock!


///
216 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:26:03am

You don't need to pressure or order someone to commit jihad. If you condone the actions, it may be enough. If you preach jihad and hate, you don't need to say anything more.

Awlaki is busy trying to dissemble and ignore the fact that he cheered the news of Major Hasan's attacks on US soldiers at Fort Hood.

217 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:26:25am

re: #215 Varek Raith You think that Palestinian Alarm clock is bad wait until you see the IDF bidet. /

218 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:28:35am

Related to the topic:

FACT CHECK: Palin's book goes rogue on some facts

PALIN: Describing her resistance to federal stimulus money, Palin describes Alaska as a practical, libertarian haven of independent Americans who don't want "help" from government busybodies.

THE FACTS: Alaska is also one of the states most dependent on federal subsidies, receiving much more assistance from Washington than it pays in federal taxes. A study for the nonpartisan Tax Foundation found that in 2005, the state received $1.84 for every dollar it sent to Washington.

There's quite the list of fact stretching from Sarah.

219 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:29:41am

re: #216 lawhawk

You don't need to pressure or order someone to commit jihad. If you condone the actions, it may be enough. If you preach jihad and hate, you don't need to say anything more.

Awlaki is busy trying to dissemble and ignore the fact that he cheered the news of Major Hasan's attacks on US soldiers at Fort Hood.

He's got an impressive resume as a jihadi confidant.

The thick-bearded, white-robed Aulaqi, who was born in New Mexico, served as an imam at two mosques attended by three of the Sept. 11, 2001, hijackers -- Virginia's Dar al-Hijra and another in California. Aulaqi, who is in his late 30s, is also fluent in Arabic. U.S. officials have accused him of working with al-Qaeda networks in the Persian Gulf after leaving Northern Virginia.

I can't imagine he's too bright if he's talking to the press about Hassan. You would think he'd be happy to avoid the spotlight right now.

220 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:32:32am

re: #202 iceweasel

re: #208 lawhawk

just the sagging ratings and the need to do something to turn things around.

My cynical view-I get that way about the media-I highlighted the part that matters. If his ratings were helping CNN climb the ad money ladder, he would be there comfortable as ever.

221 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:32:59am

Shuttle Atlantis launch is still set for later this afternoon. More here.

222 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:33:27am

How Palin Could Win the 2012 GOP Nomination

[Link: www.politicsdaily.com...]

More than two years before the 2012 Iowa caucuses, presidential speculation should come with a soothsayer's money-back guarantee. But what all the discussions of Palin's future miss is the way that Republican Party rules are made-to-order for a well-funded insurgent named Sarah to sweep the primaries before anyone figures out how to stop her. If Palin can maintain, say, 35-percent support in a multi-candidate presidential field, then she is the odds-on favorite for the GOP nomination.

223 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:34:17am

re: #219 DaddyG

Why? Awlaki isn't exactly shy about his support for jihad and taking down the infidels wherever they may be. Hasan's lawyers may not be thrilled about it however. Awlaki can brand Hasan a loyal jihadi and a martyr when the time comes. It's what he does.

224 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:36:00am

even Rudi is a Palin fan...

[Link: politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...]

225 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:36:08am

re: #223 lawhawk

Why? Awlaki isn't exactly shy about his support for jihad and taking down the infidels wherever they may be. Hasan's lawyers may not be thrilled about it however. Awlaki can brand Hasan a loyal jihadi and a martyr when the time comes. It's what he does.


I guess I'm projecting. I wouldn't want the scrutiny. I guess I'm a much different kind of preacher than Awlaki.

226 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:36:55am

I'm no memeticist, but I don't see that Palin or the GOP are the ones peddling this latest Palin meme. If the "media hates her" meme is indeed a fiction, then does that mean that the media actually loves her and are just covering her to sell more copy? Or, as those who view MSM as a tool of the Dems would argue, is the meme simply part of the ongoing left wing media conspiracy to keep the GOP divided - the same conspiracy that is giving so much coverage to Palin's fellow far-right conservatives like Paul and Huckabee et al.
Nah...

227 Dynomite  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:39:50am

re: #226 Spare O'Lake

"Media loves her" isn't the only alternative to "media hates her." "Media is indifferent, and follows the money" is my take.

As for the wide-ranging coverage of Paul & Huckabee, I can't say I've seen it - I haven't tuned in to Fox News lately.

228 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:40:38am

re: #226 Spare O'Lake
I had to look that up... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memetics

Clever usage.

229 The Left  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:41:25am

re: #226 Spare O'Lake

The media does love covering her. As for dividing the GOP, no left wing conspiracy is ncessary for that-- many if not most conservatives here would tell you that the GOP is doing a fine job of doing that to itself all on its own, what with sponsering nirther bills and the like.

230 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:41:58am

Obama says al Qaeda still greatest threat to U.S.

U.S. President Barack Obama said on Monday the greatest threats to the United States continued to be terrorist networks like al Qaeda.

"I continue to believe that the greatest threat to the United States' security are the terrorist networks like al Qaeda," he told students at a town hall meeting in Shanghai. "They have now moved over the border of Afghanistan and are in Pakistan, but they continue to have networks with other extremist organizations in that region and I do believe it is important for us to stabilize Afghanistan."

I think it's wonderful President Obama could bring moonbats and paleo-con isolationists together in anger- that their cut and run fantasies in Afghanistan are not going to happen.

231 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:42:02am
232 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:43:05am

re: #226 Spare O'Lake

Media and publishing are incestuous. Note that Time Warner is one of the companies involved (CNN). News Corp (Fox) owns Harper Collins, which publishes Palin's book.

Don't think for a moment that everyone is trying to push synergy between their various business holdings, including using their tv holdings to push their publishing offerings.

233 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:43:32am

re: #227 Dynomite


"Media loves her" isn't the only alternative to "media hates her." "Media is indifferent, and follows the money" is my take.

Price per ad...
Numbers of copies...
Viewership...

Sometimes.

234 The Left  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:44:35am

Poll: 53 Percent Would ‘Definitely Not’ Vote for Sarah Palin

The new Washington Post-ABC News poll sneaks a little bit of reality into the maelstrom of Sarah Palin news. Fifty-three percent of Americans would “definitely not” vote for Palin in a hypothetical 2012 presidential race. For comparison, when the Post asked this question about then-Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) in 2006, only 42 percent said they’d definitely vote against her. Palin’s solid support — those who’d “definitely vote for” her — is 9 percent, about half of Clinton’s in 2006.

It’s one poll, but it’s only the latest to portray Palin as an unpopular — forget “divisive” — figure whose weakness with the general electorate has no bearing with her popularity among Republicans. And it cuts against the surreal arguments that Palin is in a good position to rebuild an image that was positive for, at most, about four weeks in 2008. Clinton’s 42 percent “definitely not” number was the kind of thing that encouraged Democrats like Barack Obama and John Edwards into the race against her. Palin’s 53 percent is just brutal.

235 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:46:04am

With Bush out of the White House and (R)s out of power in the congress the "sexiest" (R) stories will be about infighting and celebrity politics. That is where the ratings are and where the press will go. The fact that they did the National Enquirer routine on Palin from the start is icing on the cake for them.

Next week after the Palin book tour it will be back to frothing crowds of 54 old ladies with tea bags hanging from their ears and half a dozen millitia wannabees shouting down some Jr. Congressman from Podunk USA.

236 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:46:37am

Sarah Palin, the most popular unpopular person in the world.

238 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:47:39am

re: #236 filetandrelease

Sarah Palin, the most popular unpopular person in the world.

As a polarizing figue does that make her a PFILF?

239 Dynomite  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:48:19am

re: #238 DaddyG

As a polarizing figue does that make her a PFILF?

Maybe a PFYLF. Speak for yourself.

:P

240 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:49:57am

re: #236 filetandrelease

Sarah Palin, the most popular unpopular person in the world.

Author of one cram packed book of lies. I think perhaps only OJ's book might have been less believable.

241 badger1970  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:50:01am

re: #200 Dark_Falcon

From what the story I read, she cut in line, was called on it, got quite rude and threw down the race card. She hasn't apologized yet and is playing the victim to the hilt, in other words, a typical weekend at a big box store.

242 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:50:47am

re: #240 Sharmuta

Author of one cram packed book of lies. I think perhaps only OJ's book might have been less believable.

You have a copy?

243 The Left  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:51:27am

heh.

several dozen Tea Baggers held an anti-immigration rally on the steps of the Minnesota State Capitol where they were met by an only slightly smaller group of counter-protesters.

The highlight of the event is the speech by "Robert Erickson," a "concerned citizen from Minneapolis." Erickson launches into what seems like a standard red-meat anti-immigrant speech. His real intentions are betrayed only by a slight smirk. It is only when he accuses immigrants of spreading disease and then indicts them for "killing millions" with small pox that it becomes clear that the immigrants he has in mind are the European conquerors of North America and their descendants.

The Tea-Baggers seem pretty clueless, and for the most part don't even seem to realize they have been punk'd, even when Erickson closes out with a chant of "Columbus Go Home!"

Video and transcript at link.

244 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:52:37am

'Going Rogue'? Try going south - poll shows Sarah Palin's not as popular as her book

In case all the publicity around her new book is going to her head, Sarah Palin is receiving some sobering news in a new ABC News/Washington Post poll: She's not all that popular.

The former Alaska governor’s popularity score is a negative 9, with 43% liking her and 52% seeing her unfavorably.

"Favorability is the most basic measure of a public figure's popularity; in politics, where majorities win, it’s trouble when it goes negative, as it's been for Palin since October 2008," notes ABC's poll maven, Gary Langer.

There's more bad news for Palin: A solid 60% say she's not qualified to be President, and 53% say they definitely would not vote for her in 2012.

245 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:53:32am

re: #241 badger1970

From what the story I read, she cut in line, was called on it, got quite rude and threw down the race card. She hasn't apologized yet and is playing the victim to the hilt, in other words, a typical weekend at a big box store.

She should not have made a scene and resisted arrest but a Felony charge seems draconian. The local cops would have been well to escort her off the property and let her be. For good measure they might have done the same to the woman who was fighting with her.

Of course not having been there I can't tell how bad the fight really was. She had better hope the video (and you know Wal-Mart has video) tells a sympathetic story.

246 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:54:09am

re: #238 DaddyG

It does for me!

247 MadRat  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:54:24am

I recommend not believing anything the news says about this book until you've read it. The news knows no one can confirm anything they report so they can attack it all they want and by the time they retract their misstatements (at some point in the news broadcast when no one's really paying attention) the damage will already have been done.

NBC's Andrea Mitchell:

“I wanted to see Andrea and her colleagues sporting fish-slimed waders, banging around in a skiff, stuck in the mud,”

“...it was sunny, hot and flat calm, so -- dang it -- none of them got slimed.”

What the book really said [emphasis mine]:

“Now I wanted to see Andrea and her colleagues sporting fish-slimed waders, banging around in a skiff, stuck in the mud and trying to pull themselves back over the bow. At the very least they'd see there was no diva in me.”
“It was sunny, hot and flat calm, so -- dang it -- none of them got slimed.”

Associated Press (AP) fact check [emphasis mine]:

PALIN: Says she made frugality a point when traveling on state business as Alaska governor, asking "only" for reasonably priced rooms and not "often" going for the "high-end, robe-and-slippers" hotels.

THE FACTS: Although she usually opted for less-pricey hotels while governor, Palin and daughter Bristol stayed five days and four nights at the $707.29-per-night Essex House luxury hotel (robes and slippers come standard) for a five-hour women's leadership conference in New York in October 2007. With air fare, the cost to Alaska was well over $3,000.

Notice how the AP confuses the word "often" with the word "never" and adds the price of airfare to her hotel stay? I'd say 4 nights during her entire time as governor counts as not often.

248 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:55:14am

re: #242 Ben Hur

#218.

249 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:55:47am

re: #244 NJDhockeyfan

'Going Rogue'? Try going south - poll shows Sarah Palin's not as popular as her book

Really she's not, I mean this is only the second poll out on her today.

250 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:55:48am

re: #243 iceweasel

heh.


Video and transcript at link.


OK that is funny. But it also serves as a good indicator of exactly how "mainstream" (R) the tea party protests are. Not.

251 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:55:58am

re: #248 Sharmuta

#218.

That's a "No."

252 CommonCents  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:56:03am

re: #224 albusteve

even Rudi is a Palin fan...

[Link: politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...]

He's a politician. If he has any desire to run for another office, he'll need some someone right of himself to support him. He's not the conservative social values candidate so he may just be playing for an endorsement.

253 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:58:49am

re: #249 filetandrelease

Really she's not, I mean this is only the second poll out on her today.

I might add , the second poll out on her today designed to convince us how unpoular she is.

254 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:58:49am

re: #247 MadRat

Notice how the AP confuses the word "often" with the word "never" and adds the price of airfare to her hotel stay? I'd say 4 nights during her entire time as governor counts as not often.

4 nights for one five hour conference.

255 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:59:17am

re: #234 iceweasel

Poll: 53 Percent Would ‘Definitely Not’ Vote for Sarah Palin

from the blurb I posted above...

according to a recent CNN/Opinion Research poll, 71 percent of voters describe as "not qualified to be president."

actually there is no telling how unpopular she is

256 lostlakehiker  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:59:17am
According to excerpts published on the Huffington Post, Palin “took in his rotund physique and noted that he used nicotine to keep his own cognitive connections humming along.”

“I’m a forty-four year old, healthy, athletic woman raising five kids and governing a large state, I thought as his words faded into a background buzz. Sir, I really don’t know you yet. But you’ve told me how to dress, what to say, who to talk to, a lot of people not to talk to, who my heroes are supposed to be and we’re still losing. Now you’re going to tell me what to eat?”


Trying to pin the blame on this or that little sideshow like Palin is silly. It was `the economy, stupid.' But if McCain had a chance, he lost it when he chose and then unchose Palin. If you make a choice, make it. Even if it's a bad choice, in matters of this sort you have to play it out. There's no going back. Remember Eagleton? How'd that second guessing work for Mondale?

Make it whole hog. Let Palin be Palin, and take the consequences or reap the fruits of that decision, whichever way that falls out. McCain wanted the pretty face and youthful vigor, but he didn't want the whole woman on his ticket. This sort of flinching and vacillation is a good way to make sure of losing.

Obama, how about that troop request for Afghanistan?

257 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:59:19am

re: #247 MadRat
Creative use of ellipses. Who needs integrity when you can get ratings?

258 funky chicken  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:59:38am

re: #222 albusteve

How Palin Could Win the 2012 GOP Nomination

[Link: www.politicsdaily.com...]

More than two years before the 2012 Iowa caucuses, presidential speculation should come with a soothsayer's money-back guarantee. But what all the discussions of Palin's future miss is the way that Republican Party rules are made-to-order for a well-funded insurgent named Sarah to sweep the primaries before anyone figures out how to stop her. If Palin can maintain, say, 35-percent support in a multi-candidate presidential field, then she is the odds-on favorite for the GOP nomination.

Hey, she might get 50 votes in the electoral college. Go GOP primary voters go!

/well, that's what the dems are saying, I'm sure.

259 charlz  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 8:59:58am

re: #244 NJDhockeyfan

There's more bad news for Palin: A solid 60% say she's not qualified to be President, and 53% say they definitely would not vote for her in 2012.

What's wrong with this picture? At least 7% would consider voting for someone they believe not qualified to be President??

260 Locker  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:00:17am
Palin says she doesn’t believe in evolution

Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, Sen. John McCain's (R-AZ) vice presidential running mate, signals in her new book Going Rogue that she doesn't believe in evolution, panning it as theory that human beings "originated from fish that sprouted legs and crawled out of the sea."

[Link:rawstory.com... ]

261 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:01:09am

re: #247 MadRat

Associated Press (AP) fact check [emphasis mine]:

PALIN: Says she made frugality a point when traveling on state business as Alaska governor, asking "only" for reasonably priced rooms and not "often" going for the "high-end, robe-and-slippers" hotels.

THE FACTS: Although she usually opted for less-pricey hotels while governor, Palin and daughter Bristol stayed five days and four nights at the $707.29-per-night Essex House luxury hotel (robes and slippers come standard) for a five-hour women's leadership conference in New York in October 2007. With air fare, the cost to Alaska was well over $3,000.

Notice how the AP confuses the word "often" with the word "never" and adds the price of airfare to her hotel stay? I'd say 4 nights during her entire time as governor counts as not often.

What I noticed is this section dealt with travel frugality, and you're trying to separate the flights from the hotels. You also failed to complete the AP's paragraph, probably because it's not pretty:

Event organizers said Palin asked if she could bring her daughter. The governor billed her state more than $20,000 for her children's travel, including to events where they had not been invited, and in some cases later amended expense reports to specify that they had been on official business.

262 borgcube  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:02:02am

re: #86 wozzablog

Speaking of zombies...where has the real Zombie been lately? Anyone know?

263 badger1970  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:02:02am

re: #259 charlz

What's wrong with this picture? At least 7% would consider voting for someone they believe not qualified to be President??

Too, too easy.

264 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:02:05am

re: #229 iceweasel

The media does love covering her. As for dividing the GOP, no left wing conspiracy is ncessary for that-- many if not most conservatives here would tell you that the GOP is doing a fine job of doing that to itself all on its own, what with sponsering nirther bills and the like.

I do not believe that a left wing conspiracy is "necessary" in order to account for the phenomenon, but I do find the extensive post-election MSM coverage of the town halls and tea parties to be quite a drastic change in media coverage of the far right. Since most believe the present 24-7 Palin book coverage to be unjustified hype of a political has-been, it is possible to see the tremendous amount of coverage as a part of the same trend.
Whether it is all just good old-fashioned chase-the-buck journalism, or part of the MSM liberal conspiracy, is not for me to say.

265 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:02:20am

re: #260 Locker

If Mrs. Palin is uncertain about the scientific theories like evolution, she oughtta test the theory of gravity by jumping off a building.

Wow.

266 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:02:48am

If Palin had been truly conservative she would have borrowed one of Nancy Pelosi's jets and saved her constituents all of those travel expenses. //

267 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:03:39am

re: #265 Ben Hur

Wow.


It's that special brand of liberal love. Just go with it. /

268 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:03:44am

re: #266 DaddyG

If Palin had been truly conservative she would have borrowed one of Nancy Pelosi's jets and saved her constituents all of those travel expenses. //

The Air Force?

269 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:03:49am

re: #255 albusteve

from the blurb I posted above...

according to a recent CNN/Opinion Research poll, 71 percent of voters describe as "not qualified to be president."

actually there is no telling how unpopular she is

I think it's more complicated- I think personality-wise, people like her. Professionally, they don't. So I think she's a little of both- popular and unpopular. I personally wish her all the best in life, but I won't vote for her.

270 subsailor68  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:04:25am

Morning all! Well, words just fail me:

Health and safety snoops to enter family homes

The draft guidance by a committee at the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (Nice) has been criticised as intrusive and further evidence of the “creeping nanny state”.

I'm getting the feeling that the people running NICE aren't really very nice. But they sure seem to be power hungry!

271 Ojoe  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:04:33am

re: #258 funky chicken

This primary & convention system for picking candidates, combined with the two-party system, guarantees fringe appeal and that's about it, in presidential candidates.

It is a recipe for bad government.

We need a center party.

Someone else might find one, or post about the Modern Whigs.

272 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:05:00am

re: #262 borgcube

Speaking of zombies...where has the real Zombie been lately? Anyone know?

Zombie and his sock puppets have been banned. You can read about it here.

273 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:05:47am

re: #269 Sharmuta

I think it's more complicated- I think personality-wise, people like her. Professionally, they don't. So I think she's a little of both- popular and unpopular. I personally wish her all the best in life, but I won't vote for her.

What if were her against Obama? You would vote for Obama?

274 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:05:56am

Calypso Louie talks about Nidhal Hassan...


Interviewer: Let us begin with the most recent development on the American front, and the racial discrimination against Muslims and their persecution – the incident associated with Mr. Nidhal Hassan, a Muslim psychiatrist of Arab origin, who killed 13 soldiers at the US Fort Hood base. To what extent might this incident affect the Muslims in the US and make them targets of persecution?

[...]

Louis Farrakhan: As you know, since 9/11, in America and in other parts of the world, those anti-Islamic forces have stepped up their efforts to make Muslims... to cause the Muslims to be looked at as uncivilized, savage, or wicked people. This is an attempt by anti-Islamic forces, and some members of the Jewish community, and some members of the Christian community, who have united to condemn Islam and to speak ill of our Prophet Muhammad, and to even go so far as to say that the Muslims worship the devil.

[...]

It is because, my dear brothers and sisters, Islam was making so much progress in the United States that those anti-Islamic forces are trying to stem the tide of the progress of Islam.

[...]

This recent unfortunate event, which took place at the Fort Hood base in Texas, has only added fuel to the fire. On behalf of all the Muslims in the Muslim world, we are saddened by the loss of these 13 American soldiers and the thirty others who were wounded in the incident. No human being would be pleased to see that kind of slaughter, coming from a fellow officer in the US army.

However, we have to look at Major Nidhal Hassan. What happened to him? What kind of stress was he under? What kind of insults had he borne?

[...]

When there are Muslims who love America, and who join the armed forces to protect America, and to serve the interests of America, and then America, unfortunately, under the falsehoods of the George. W. Bush administration, launches attacks against Iraq and against Afghanistan, and now, those soldiers are killing Muslims... So when they go to war in Iraq and Afghanistan, the kind of hatred that is built up in the American forces, when they call the Muslims “[bigoted word]s” and “desert n*****s,” and then, in the Abu Ghureib prison, Muslim women were raped, and Muslim men were sodomized... All this affects Muslims serving in the army. So when you are being insulted by your superior officers or by your fellow soldiers, at some point, a person might break. Unfortunately, I believe this is what happened to Captain Nidhal Hassan.

275 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:05:58am

re: #269 Sharmuta

I think it's more complicated- I think personality-wise, people like her. Professionally, they don't. So I think she's a little of both- popular and unpopular. I personally wish her all the best in life, but I won't vote for her.

sorta like BO in that regard, high marks personally, much lower for performance...she is not on my list for anything

276 funky chicken  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:06:00am

re: #256 lostlakehiker

Trying to pin the blame on this or that little sideshow like Palin is silly. It was `the economy, stupid.' But if McCain had a chance, he lost it when he chose and then unchose Palin. If you make a choice, make it. Even if it's a bad choice, in matters of this sort you have to play it out. There's no going back. Remember Eagleton? How'd that second guessing work for Mondale?

Make it whole hog. Let Palin be Palin, and take the consequences or reap the fruits of that decision, whichever way that falls out. McCain wanted the pretty face and youthful vigor, but he didn't want the whole woman on his ticket. This sort of flinching and vacillation is a good way to make sure of losing.

Obama, how about that troop request for Afghanistan?

1. It was an attempt to get the Limbaugh/Ingraham/Malkin contingent on board. Palin was everything they wanted, but they still stood on the sideline bitching about "Juan McAmnesty Yosemite Sam" or whatever. I'd hope that Rudy would look at that and decide to stop trying to cultivate these creeps as they are insatiable...you truly cannot satisfy them, period.

2. After a few weeks of spending pretty much 24/7 around Gov. Palin, the McCain people may have developed concerns about her. We don't know that, and never will. However, if they did develop concerns, of course they would act upon that.

3. When, exactly, did they drop her from the ticket? I seem to have forgotten that.

277 Ojoe  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:06:43am

re: #273 filetandrelease

What if were her against Obama? You would vote for Obama?

What if there were a sensible candidate?

278 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:07:33am

re: #277 Ojoe

What if there were a sensible candidate?

well then, I would vote for that one, but it does not answer my question.

279 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:07:44am

Doctors at Walter Reed have announced that they have successfully cloned Ronald Reagan using cells from the frozen Polip removed from his colon in June of 1986. Republican pundits are hailing the breakthrough and plan to run the clone for Presidint in the 2048 election.

280 Ojoe  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:08:57am

re: #278 filetandrelease

We, like, need a sensible, center candidate.

Such an one would win.

Neither main party is capable of nominating such a person.

281 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:09:23am

re: #269 Sharmuta

I think it's more complicated- I think personality-wise, people like her. Professionally, they don't. So I think she's a little of both- popular and unpopular. I personally wish her all the best in life, but I won't vote for her.

Neither would I, but this:


Event organizers said Palin asked if she could bring her daughter. The governor billed her state more than $20,000 for her children's travel, including to events where they had not been invited, and in some cases later amended expense reports to specify that they had been on official business.

isn't scandalous.

The $20,000 is not for one event.

She was governor. (Unless you think Obama should never bring his family anywhere on the gov dime).

And usually, amending expense reports to show someone WASN'T there is scandalous. Here it seems like disclosure.

Look Sharm, I am no supporter.

But you can't ignore that 11 AP writers "investigating" her book is extreme at least.

She's not the prez. Who, strangely, never has anything he's written, (or not written like at Harvard) investigated.

I thought you would wait to read the damn thing and not rely on the AP or NYTIMES to do it for you.

282 CommonCents  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:09:37am

re: #259 charlz

What's wrong with this picture? At least 7% would consider voting for someone they believe not qualified to be President??

There's a correlation there somewhere. O...what is it?

283 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:10:01am

re: #273 filetandrelease

What if were her against Obama? You would vote for Obama?

I can't vote third party or not vote?

284 Ojoe  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:10:44am

re: #283 Sharmuta

Many do not vote.

285 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:10:44am

re: #280 Ojoe

We, like, need a sensible, center candidate.

Such an one would win.

Neither main party is capable of nominating such a person.

Are you mocking my comma usage? lol

286 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:10:49am

re: #281 Ben Hur

I'm not paying a dime to read that book.

287 Kragar  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:11:05am

Hamas: Declare Palestinian state from sea to river

Hamas rejected the Palestinian Authority's decision to unilaterally declare a state in the West Bank and Gaza, saying it should take over all of Israel.

"(W)hy not declare a Palestinian state from the sea [Mediterranean] to the river [Jordan]" rather than in the West Bank and Gaza only?" Hamas spokesman Salah Bardweel said Monday, Ha'aretz reported.

His remarks followed declarations over the weekend by chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat that the Palestinian Authority would ask the United Nations Security Council to recognize an independent state along the 1967 border lines, with East Jerusalem as its capital.

288 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:11:53am

re: #286 Sharmuta

I'm not paying a dime to read that book.

I can understand that.

Go to the library.

289 Ojoe  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:12:09am

re: #285 filetandrelease

No, like, I was phrasing my comment, in like, hippie, dude.

LOL

290 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:12:30am

re: #283 Sharmuta

I can't vote third party or not vote?

It is a rhetorical question of course, but brings back the argument given to me here last year when I expressed a posiblity I may not vote for McCain. Which I ultimately did.

291 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:12:32am

re: #272 Sharmuta

(I still pray for RW, btw).

292 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:13:25am

re: #282 CommonCents

There's a correlation there somewhere. O...what is it?

5% of the electorate who never miss a rerun of "Wheel of Fortune" because they are so impressed with Vanna White's spelling prowess.

293 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:13:49am

re: #288 Ben Hur

And I can understand your point I should read it myself, but I won't have the means to fact check like the AP would. That's quite a laundry list the AP came up with, and I have confidence it's accurate.

294 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:14:38am

re: #291 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

(I still pray for RW, btw).

I thought he was a good guy...I never knew what exactly happened, something bad I guess...seems like I logged on and half my friends were gone

295 borgcube  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:15:18am

re: #272 Sharmuta

Wow. Always loved Zombie. I'd like to see LGF and Zombietime reconcile.

296 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:15:35am

re: #294 albusteve

I thought he was a good guy...I never knew what exactly happened, something bad I guess...seems like I logged on and half my friends were gone


So sad. Me too. I miss the Monkey.

297 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:15:42am

re: #293 Sharmuta

Coolio.

298 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:15:49am

re: #290 filetandrelease

It is a rhetorical question of course, but brings back the argument given to me here last year when I expressed a posiblity I may not vote for McCain. Which I ultimately did.

I'm not worried about Palin winning the nomination, so I don't see a need to worry myself over a decision I believe I won't have to make.

299 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:16:11am

Don't cross the streams.

300 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:16:52am

re: #295 borgcube

You might want to read that thread before thinking Charles should reconcile with a person (and sock puppets!) who is allowing their blog to become a cesspit of LGF hate.

301 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:17:53am

re: #298 Sharmuta

Darnit, I thought I had you on that one.

302 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:19:32am

re: #299 Ben Hur

Don't cross the streams.

good advice amigo

303 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:21:16am

re: #286 Sharmuta

I'm not paying a dime to read that book.

That's what the chairs at Barnes & Noble or Borders are for. :-D

304 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:21:47am

re: #299 Ben Hur

Don't cross the streams.

Hey. I mentioned this on the early morning thread.

I peed beside Peyton Manning once.

Ask, Shar. She knows all the details.

305 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:22:28am

re: #293 Sharmuta

And I can understand your point I should read it myself, but I won't have the means to fact check like the AP would. That's quite a laundry list the AP came up with, and I have confidence it's accurate.

Also keep in mind the severity of the "facts" gotten wrong.

It will be ridiculous if it's like what happened with the Reagan TV show, where they had him saying what he didn't say about Gays and Aids, which caused an uproar. That was a serious fact checking lie.

Compared to the 9/11 TV show when the Dems in the Bill admin flipped out over a not so serious fact checking lie that, OMG! Sandy Berger NEVER MADE THAT PHONE CALL!!! HE SAID IT IN PERSON!!! BS that they tried to pull.

I don't think stuff like if her travel expenses were off by a few thousand, or that the AP OPINES that more than once is "Often" rises to "GOTCHA!"

It's sure as sh*t not as big of a deal as a Sec of State that lies embellishes OFTEN about coming under fire, staying in bombed out hotels, etc etc etc.

Not to mention the Prez.

My 2 Agarote.

306 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:22:40am

re: #295 borgcube

Wow. Always loved Zombie. I'd like to see LGF and Zombietime reconcile.

Won't happen. Read the thread, read the threads at Zomblog. The Zomblog threads are pretty ugly, IMHO.

307 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:23:03am

re: #304 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hey. I mentioned this on the early morning thread.

I peed beside Peyton Manning once.

Ask, Shar. She knows all the details.

Payton Manning is aware of all urinal traditions. :D

308 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:24:03am

re: #304 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hey. I mentioned this on the early morning thread.

I peed beside Peyton Manning once.

Ask, Shar. She knows all the details.

Dude. Amend that.

309 borgcube  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:24:04am

re: #300 Sharmuta

Many relationships that seems over can be salvaged although this one looks unlikely. So many good times here on LGF with Zombie. It's just sad. And I did read the thread. Zombie is a female? Never saw that coming.

310 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:24:33am

re: #304 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hey. I mentioned this on the early morning thread.

I peed beside Peyton Manning once.

Ask, Shar. She knows all the details.

Or don't.

I apparently have a deviant mind.

311 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:25:38am

re: #309 borgcube

Many relationships that seems over can be salvaged although this one looks unlikely. So many good times here on LGF with Zombie. It's just sad. And I did read the thread. Zombie is a female? Never saw that coming.

SHe has a blog.

No one here will know if you visit.

312 Guanxi88  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:26:36am

All kidding - and this chattering about Palin is just a very expensive form of kidding - aside, it seems a bit premature to go around speculating on who will be the poor SOB to run against BHO in 2012. Whoever it is, he or she is bound to lose spectacularly, at least based on what we've seen thus far.

Obama has finally managed to coalesce the Democratic party, long a squabbling tangle of various interests and factions, into a more or less coherent national and state presence. At the national level, the party is united around the President to a degree that the Republican party has not been since the first term of W's administration.

While they may very well lose Congress next year, by then, much of what the Republican Party would be working to oppose would be accomplished already, and so votes for the R senate and congress would be protests against what had already come to pass.

With the actual big-deal healthcare plan not kicking in until the first year after the 2012 election (at least in its current incarnation) BHO and the congressional Dems have a lock. All the credit for the program, none of the blame for it until such time as it's too late to do anything about the folk who put it in place.

And once this massive regulatory and mandatory apparatus is in place, how many of us honestly believe that anyone, regardless of party affiliation, would be willing to turn loose those levers of power?

313 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:26:44am

re: #309 borgcube

Zombie has no credibility after that thread, so no- I doubt a reconciliation is going to happen.

314 funky chicken  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:26:55am

re: #281 Ben Hur

isn't scandalous.

The $20,000 is not for one event.

She was governor. (Unless you think Obama should never bring his family anywhere on the gov dime).

And usually, amending expense reports to show someone WASN'T there is scandalous. Here it seems like disclosure.

Look Sharm, I am no supporter.

But you can't ignore that 11 AP writers "investigating" her book is extreme at least.

She's not the prez. Who, strangely, never has anything he's written, (or not written like at Harvard) investigated.

I thought you would wait to read the damn thing and not rely on the AP or NYTIMES to do it for you.

Sorry, but I'm not buying it. My husband has a fairly high rank in the military, and he's been sent to some pretty cool places. Never once did he even consider taking one of our kids along (on the government dime or off it; you are sent to conferences to work, not tour cities with your kids), and never once did he stay somewhere 4 nights for a 1 day conference and bill the government for the whole 4 nights.

Is it small potatoes from a government fraud standpoint? perhaps, but it's still bullshit, and doesn't speak well of the person who does it.

315 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:28:42am

re: #314 funky chicken

Sorry, but I'm not buying it. My husband has a fairly high rank in the military, and he's been sent to some pretty cool places. Never once did he even consider taking one of our kids along (on the government dime or off it; you are sent to conferences to work, not tour cities with your kids), and never once did he stay somewhere 4 nights for a 1 day conference and bill the government for the whole 4 nights.

Is it small potatoes from a government fraud standpoint? perhaps, but it's still bullshit, and doesn't speak well of the person who does it.

A Governor is the President of his State.

The military is something else altogether.

316 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:29:03am

VIDEO: Scuffle Ensues when Neo-Nazis Unfurl Hitler Flag at Tea Party Rally


A scuffle ensued Saturday when members of the National Socialist Movement (Neo-Nazis) found themselves shut out of an anti-immigration Tea Party protest at the Phoenix capitol.

American Citizens United, who organized the Phoenix Tea Party rally, told the Neo-Nazi group that racist messages were not welcome at the demonstration. The Neo-Nazis left, but two returned, standing defiantly on the sidewalk that borders the designated protest area.

At least they're trying.

317 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:29:03am

lunch

318 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:29:35am

re: #305 Ben Hur

Hon- you know I don't disagree with you on the msm. They should equally be fact checking everyone. However, that doesn't mean their fact checking on the Palin book is inaccurate.

319 Guanxi88  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:31:23am

re: #316 Killgore Trout

VIDEO: Scuffle Ensues when Neo-Nazis Unfurl Hitler Flag at Tea Party Rally

At least they're trying.

This whole Tea party thing may yet be a turn-around even, viewed in retrospect. Look at the Chicago Convention of 1968 and the disaster it was for the Left. And yet, we see that out of it sprung the entire New Left movement that has dominated American liberalism ever since. Not quite as radical as the folk clashing with the police, but largely sympathetic to their goals, if not their methods.

320 Buck  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:32:31am

re: #27 iceweasel

Most of Andrew Sullivan's list is opinion, not fact. AND the double standard is so thick you can cut it with a knife.

I would be on her side before I would agree with Andrew Sullivan.

He has one song on one record... Gay Marriage. Is he giving Obama a pass? You bet.

(for the record I support same sex marriage as much as I support traditional marriage. Being divorced you can imagine how much THAT is.)

321 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:33:17am

re: #319 Guanxi88

This whole Tea party thing may yet be a turn-around even, viewed in retrospect. Look at the Chicago Convention of 1968 and the disaster it was for the Left. And yet, we see that out of it sprung the entire New Left movement that has dominated American liberalism ever since. Not quite as radical as the folk clashing with the police, but largely sympathetic to their goals, if not their methods.

And to piggy back on a point I made up thread, the whole tea party thing sure didn't hurt in the elections a few weeks ago.

322 Buck  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:34:18am

re: #314 funky chicken

Sorry, but I'm not buying it. My husband has a fairly high rank in the military, and he's been sent to some pretty cool places. Never once did he even consider taking one of our kids along (on the government dime or off it; you are sent to conferences to work, not tour cities with your kids), and never once did he stay somewhere 4 nights for a 1 day conference and bill the government for the whole 4 nights.

Is it small potatoes from a government fraud standpoint? perhaps, but it's still bullshit, and doesn't speak well of the person who does it.

It is not fraud. Or even close.

323 Locker  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:34:39am

re: #265 Ben Hur

Wow.

Ben you sure make it look like you are quoting something I said when you are in fact quoting a comment on the linked article. I hope you didn't mean to do that on purpose. Peace.

324 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:35:18am

re: #322 Buck

It is not fraud. Or even close.

It's unethical.

325 Guanxi88  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:35:22am

re: #321 filetandrelease

And to piggy back on a point I made up thread, the whole tea party thing sure didn't hurt in the elections a few weeks ago.

Nope, not one bit. In fact, unless you were looking to prove it hurt the Republican party or the Conservative movement, you would have to point out that, in fairness, the wins exceeded the losses, and NY23 may yet be recorded not as the resounding defeat of conservatism that many wish to make it into:

[Link: thebulletin.us...]

326 Jeff In Ohio  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:35:41am

re: #316 Killgore Trout

VIDEO: Scuffle Ensues when Neo-Nazis Unfurl Hitler Flag at Tea Party Rally

At least they're trying.

Yeah, but take it from someone who sucker punched a Workers World Pary member (and got thrown out the soft-lefty org I was in), when a Nazi (or Stalinist) has his hands tied up holding a poster, that's not the time to grab the poster, that's the time to hit him in the face.

327 CommonCents  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:35:46am

re: #292 DaddyG

5% of the electorate who never miss a rerun of "Wheel of Fortune" because they are so impressed with Vanna White's spelling prowess.

That wasn't the direction I was heading. But Vanna sure can spell good.

328 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:35:48am

re: #321 filetandrelease

And to piggy back on a point I made up thread, the whole tea party thing sure didn't hurt in the elections a few weeks ago.


It will hurt if it splits the (R)s into social con and fiscal con camps. NY23 should be a lesson not to run extreme (liberal or conservative) candidates for the Republicans. The Independents like their Republicans not too hot, not too cold, but just right.

329 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:38:15am

re: #326 Jeff In Ohio Remind me not to stand too close to you at a demonstration.

330 anamika  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:38:17am

Isn't the Palin book drama a welcome distraction from daily republican attacks on HCR?

You deserve all the attention Plain! Your time to defend has arrived:

Andrew Halcro:

"According to the brief excerpts I've heard, the book seems like it's less about her and more about blaming everybody around her for all of her short comings. From her lack of intelligence to her pregnant daughter, no matter what the problem or criticism, it's always somebody elses fault and never hers.

However, once the book is on the street beginnig Monday, those throughout Palin's 413 page pity party that suffer the wild blows of her imagination will come forward with guns blazing to refute the revisionist history Palin has penned.

From the brief passages that Palin has written about me in her book, the terms unmitigated lies, narcissistic delusions and libel came to mind first.

Obviously she never learned the timely Confucius warning:

"Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves."

Beginning Monday...the people whom Palin has attacked in her book will start reaching for their own shovels."

[Link: www.andrewhalcro.com...]

331 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:38:29am

re: #287 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Hamas: Declare Palestinian state from sea to river

Hamas rejected the Palestinian Authority's decision to unilaterally declare a state in the West Bank and Gaza, saying it should take over all of Israel.

And therein lies the entire problem. Israel's "partners in peace" aren't interested in peace, they're interested in pushing the Jews into the sea.

332 Guanxi88  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:38:57am

re: #328 DaddyG

It will hurt if it splits the (R)s into social con and fiscal con camps. NY23 should be a lesson not to run extreme (liberal or conservative) candidates for the Republicans. The Independents like their Republicans not too hot, not too cold, but just right.

[Link: thebulletin.us...]

It ain't over in NY23 yet. Not saying I dig Hoffman, just that he wasn't resoundingly defeated or anything like it. In fact, he may end up having won.

333 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:39:01am

re: #328 DaddyG

It will hurt if it splits the (R)s into social con and fiscal con camps. NY23 should be a lesson not to run extreme (liberal or conservative) candidates for the Republicans. The Independents like their Republicans not too hot, not too cold, but just right.

That is a big if when in regard to the tea parties.

334 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:43:31am

re: #333 filetandrelease

That is a big if when in regard to the tea parties.


My take on the tea parties is that they are a backlash against big government. The Republican party must position themselves as a limited government alternative and not appear as a different flavor of big brother.

Of course the GOP isn't battering down my door begging me to run the 2012 campaign.

335 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:45:25am

re: #326 Jeff In Ohio

I'm not sure if that's advocating violence.

336 Kragar  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:46:09am

re: #331 Sharmuta

And therein lies the entire problem. Israel's "partners in peace" aren't interested in peace, they're interested in pushing the Jews into the sea.

Imagine if Israel were allowed to actually wage a war without the rest of world scolding and threatening it for every action it takes to defend itself. If they were simply allowed to defeat the Palistinians in a case of total war, we could break this damn cycle of having intifadas every 5-10 years.

337 webevintage  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:46:17am

re: #243 iceweasel

heh.

Video and transcript at link.


hahahahahahahaha
"Columbus go Home!!!"

338 jvic  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:46:48am

re: #260 Locker

Palin says she doesn’t believe in evolution

Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, Sen. John McCain's (R-AZ) vice presidential running mate, signals in her new book Going Rogue that she doesn't believe in evolution, panning it as theory that human beings "originated from fish that sprouted legs and crawled out of the sea."

[Link:rawstory.com... ]

100+ years after educated people accepted Darwin (however grudgingly), a major American politician can talk like this.

50 years after JFK overcame religious prejudice, it is perhaps stronger than ever, e.g. the religious right's veto of Romney.

45 years after the Civil Rights Act of 1964, we are sloshing around in a fever swamp of PC and multiculturalism and, of course, old-fashioned bigotry.

Of course this country is a better place than it was in 1959, but I wonder whether historical progress always looks blemished when you get up close, or whether we have passed or zenith.

339 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:47:13am

re: #336 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Imagine if Israel were allowed to actually wage a war without the rest of world scolding and threatening it for every action it takes to defend itself. If they were simply allowed to defeat the Palistinians in a case of total war, we could break this damn cycle of having intifadas every 5-10 years.

What do you mean by 'total war'?

340 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:47:37am

re: #336 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Imagine if Israel were allowed to actually wage a war without the rest of world scolding and threatening it for every action it takes to defend itself. If they were simply allowed to defeat the Palistinians in a case of total war, we could break this damn cycle of having intifadas every 5-10 years.

they can...the IDF should be occupying Gaza right now

341 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:48:01am

re: #260 Locker

Dude- you need to do a better job of reading LGF.

342 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:49:14am

re: #338 jvic

...I wonder whether historical progress always looks blemished when you get up close, or whether we have passed or zenith.

Interesting thoughts... The fact that the internet and 24 hour news channels have given every local yokel an international megaphone and 15 seconds of fame may factor into the ugliness we see in the close up view.

343 webevintage  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:49:45am

re: #322 Buck

It is not fraud. Or even close.

It is if the sate of Alaska frowns says it is.
It is if the IRS says it has to be declared as income and she did not declare it as income.
And if not fraud it just. looks. bad.

344 markie  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:50:03am

I have no doubt this is non-fiction as she sees it. She just doesn't like being told what to do.

345 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:51:23am

re: #331 Sharmuta

And therein lies the entire problem. Israel's "partners in peace" aren't interested in peace, they're interested in pushing the Jews into the sea.

Well, the PA at least is pretending to be interested in peace. Hamas, having discovered it's hard to be an actual political party, appears to be courting small-scale Armageddon.

What trash. What failures to their people.

346 fat bastard vegetarian  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:53:02am

re: #343 webevintage

If I'm gonna bust Rangle upside his head for fiscal dishonesty, it would be dishonest of me not to bust people on my side of the spectrum upside the head also.

347 badger1970  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:53:37am

re: #343 webevintage

If she was president, those pesky little details about first family tag-a-longs would just go away.

348 Guanxi88  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:53:42am

re: #339 Obdicut

What do you mean by 'total war'?

Kragar means a military engagement with, say, Hamas or Fatah fought to conclusion, not these half-hearted slugfests that the IDF has been having lately, where they roll in, make the bad guys and militants shut down shop for a while, and spring up again.

Kragar doesn't mean "total war" in the technical WWII sense of the word, though this is in large measure an accurate description of HAMAS and, until recently, FATAH's MO.

349 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:53:49am

re: #345 Obdicut

Well, the PA at least is pretending to be interested in peace.

That's not an improvement. It's worse, actually. I'd rather have an openly hostile hamas than a lying fatah trying to behave like a friend when they're only interested in back stabbing.

When the PA comes out and recognizes Israel's right to exist- then we can talk. Until then, nothing will change.

350 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:54:26am

re: #347 badger1970

If she was (D) president, those pesky little details about first family tag-a-longs would just go away.

FIFY

351 Guanxi88  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:55:42am

re: #345 Obdicut

Well, the PA at least is pretending to be interested in peace. Hamas, having discovered it's hard to be an actual political party, appears to be courting small-scale Armageddon.

What trash. What failures to their people.

As always, the biggest losers (and I say this as a zionist) are the arabs. Totally screwed by the governments who hold them hostage and use their bodies as ballistic armor and their cities and schools as bunkers. If Israel were even one-quarter as harmful to the palestinian arabs as Hamas and Fatah are, I'd side against Israel.

352 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:56:14am

re: #348 Guanxi88

Kragar means a military engagement with, say, Hamas or Fatah fought to conclusion, not these half-hearted slugfests that the IDF has been having lately, where they roll in, make the bad guys and militants shut down shop for a while, and spring up again.

Kragar doesn't mean "total war" in the technical WWII sense of the word, though this is in large measure an accurate description of HAMAS and, until recently, FATAH's MO.

Thank god. I'm a WWII buff, so to me, total war means total war.

Not "the lack of total war and just, well, war".

re: #349 Sharmuta

That's not an improvement. It's worse, actually. I'd rather have an openly hostile hamas than a lying fatah trying to behave like a friend when they're only interested in back stabbing.

When the PA comes out and recognizes Israel's right to exist- then we can talk. Until then, nothing will change.

Which will not happen until the various Arab states that find it useful to prop up Palestine as a source of outrage are forced to stop doing so.

And round and round the mulberry tree we go.

353 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:57:15am

Just curious... as a non-Jew am I considered a Zionist simply because I see Israel as having a right to exist as a nation in the middle east?

354 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:57:26am

re: #338 jvic

(snip)
Of course this country is a better place than it was in 1959, but I wonder whether historical progress always looks blemished when you get up close, or whether we have passed or zenith.

One of the earliest examples of literature is the "Complaint of the Priest of Ptah", 5000 or so years old. Its major theme: "The country is going to hell,
and it's all the younger generation's fault."

355 Kragar  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:57:41am

Your text to link...re: #339 Obdicut

What do you mean by 'total war'?

The classical definition.

Total war is a conflict of unlimited scope in which a belligerent engages in a mobilization of all available resources at their disposal, whether human, industrial, agricultural, military, natural, technological, or otherwise, in order to entirely destroy or render beyond use their rival's capacity to continue resistance.

As long as Hamas thinks they can outlast and play the survival game, thinking they can win in the long run by wearing Israel down, they will fight. That illusion must be stripped from them and they must come to the conclusion their only options are surrender or eradication.

356 Guanxi88  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:57:44am

re: #353 DaddyG

Just curious... as a non-Jew am I considered a Zionist simply because I see Israel as having a right to exist as a nation in the middle east?

Yep, yes sir, you are a zionist.

357 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:58:08am

One of the Tea Party Organizers sent this email to David Duke and Stormfront...
The following message was sent to you via the Stormfront Contact Us form by William Gheen.
---
This message is addressed to Mr. David Duke and the Stormfront white nationalist community.

This message is being sent to you via open national release because in the past your organizations have posted our material and ignored our repeated written requests for you to remove our materials.

I am instructing you right now to remove the copyrighted information produced here at ALIPAC that you have mounted on your websites regarding our Tea Parties Against Amnesty and Illegal Immigration scheduled in 53 cities across America on November 14.

Our website says clearly that these events on Nov. 14 are for those who “share our non-violent and non-racist multi-ethnic and bipartisan support for secure borders and immigration enforcement.”

THAT CLEARLY EXCLUDES YOU, Mr. Duke, and you as well, Stormfront.

Many of our event organizers and attendees are black and Hispanic. They are welcome, but you are not. All event organizers are under instructions to remove any of your people, along with any La Raza, Brown Berets, MS-13, MALDEF, LULAC, & Stormfront people detected trying to stick your noses into these gatherings.


You are free to say and support what you want, just not at our expense.

The Tea Party, 9/12, and Immigration Enforcement movement is going to be very upset with both of you for trying to play the role of spoiler and for trying to force your way in on our events and force all of these Americans that are opposed to your positions into association with you.


I spent eight years of my life working in civil rights campaigns and working to elect minorities to public office and I am not going to have my good name forced into association with the likes of you.

How dare you do this to anyone? It is bad enough that Soros funded groups like the SPLC and ADL which go around falsely accusing good American men and women of being racists all the time and now you jerks do something like this?

David Duke and Stormfront, you are acting in the best interests of the SPLC, ADL and millions of illegal aliens at this very moment. It would not surprise me if those outfits had you guys on the payroll. You should ask them for a check, if you are not already receiving one for the service you are currently providing the illegal alien lobby by stealing our materials for your website.

Take our event materials down right now and get away from our events on November 14 or I swear before the nation I will do all in my power to file lawsuits against you for damages and redirect as much of my time from fighting against illegal immigration groups and direct my attentions to fighting you.

If you have not removed materials related to ALIPAC's Tea Parties against Amnesty within a few short hours of this release, then we will launch new initiatives that show the public how your white nationalist outfits are assisting the SPLC and ADL in their efforts to malign any American standing up against illegal immigration as a racist.

I am personally appalled that you would attempt to damage and degrade our hard work to unify Americans of every race in the fight against illegal immigration. Furthermore, it is ludicrous that your websites now promote our Tea Parties when you have notoriously attacked me and ALIPAC for working with people that are Jewish, black, and Latino!

...

358 Guanxi88  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:58:21am

re: #354 Decatur Deb

One of the earliest examples of literature is the "Complaint of the Priest of Ptah", 5000 or so years old. Its major theme: "The country is going to hell,
and it's all the younger generation's fault."

And the funny thing is, it's always true.

359 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:58:32am

re: #357 Killgore Trout

cont...
I have dedicated my life to trying to save the United States from enemies foreign and domestic, and if you continue to assist those who are flooding our nation with illegal aliens, then you are going on my list of those to fight.

Take our materials down NOW! Otherwise, you can place the name William Gheen and ALIPAC firmly on your worst enemies list for the rest of your lives.

All organizers and event attendees, please keep a careful eye out at our events, and if you detect any of these unwanted, intrusive, and illegal alien assisting Stormfronters or David Duke minions at our events, please notify the organizer who will ask the police to remove these racists from our midst.

William Gheen
President, Americans for Legal Immigration PAC
Director, Tea Parties Against Amnesty

360 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:59:33am

re: #357 Killgore Trout

About damn time!

361 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 9:59:46am

re: #356 Guanxi88

Yep, yes sir, you are a zionist.


Cool- something else for my resume. :-)

Long ago as a child I mused about a multi-level parking deck solution for Israel. Now that I am older I fear it would just start arguments over who had access to the handicapped parking spaces.

362 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:00:01am

re: #355 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Your text to link...

As long as Hamas thinks they can outlast and play the survival game, thinking they can win in the long run by wearing Israel down, they will fight. That illusion must be stripped from them and they must come to the conclusion their only options are surrender or eradication.

The classical sense of total war includes blurring the line heavily between civilian and soldier, including destroying infrastructure with the cost of civilian casualties.

363 Jeff In Ohio  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:02:25am

re: #335 Sharmuta

Not advocating. Stating that if I (me, myself) was worked up enough to be confrontational with some Neo-Nazi, I'd wouldn't bother with his poster. Generally, I'd advocate that people be allowed to express their views, however reprehensible, and ignore the dude.

364 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:03:45am

re: #359 Killgore Trout
Good on 'em. This is threadworthy. The conservative movement should encourage purgings of this kind louldy and frequently.

365 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:04:05am

re: #352 Obdicut

Which will not happen until the various Arab states that find it useful to prop up Palestine as a source of outrage are forced to stop doing so.

And round and round the mulberry tree we go.

Yet the pressure is constantly put on Israel to make all sorts of concessions, but we can't get one concession from the other side, that being an agreement Israel has the right to exist.

366 charlz  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:04:06am

re: #312 Guanxi88

BHO and the congressional Dems have a lock.

I'm not predicting it, but there's still plenty of time for BHO to become the new LBJ in the eyes of many Dems if the wars continue to go badly. There are parallels to Vietnam.

367 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:04:21am

re: #363 Jeff In Ohio

Not advocating. Stating that if I (me, myself) was worked up enough to be confrontational with some Neo-Nazi, I'd wouldn't bother with his poster. Generally, I'd advocate that people be allowed to express their views, however reprehensible, and ignore the dude.

Probably good advice.

368 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:05:02am

The ringmistress of the Rifka Bary circus is in rare form today, in advance of their rally on her behalf in Ohio. That graphic on her front page is a jawdropper.

369 Kragar  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:05:12am

re: #362 Obdicut

The classical sense of total war includes blurring the line heavily between civilian and soldier, including destroying infrastructure with the cost of civilian casualties.

Every effort should be taken to mitigate and lessen civilian casualties. Organizations like the UN and Red Cross should be used to deal with the refugees.

370 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:05:12am

"How dare you do this to anyone? It is bad enough that Soros funded groups like the SPLC and ADL which go around falsely accusing good American men and women of being racists all the time and now you jerks do something like this?

David Duke and Stormfront, you are acting in the best interests of the SPLC, ADL and millions of illegal aliens at this very moment. It would not surprise me if those outfits had you guys on the payroll. You should ask them for a check, if you are not already receiving one for the service you are currently providing the illegal alien lobby by stealing our materials for your website."

He kind of lost me there.

371 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:06:06am

re: #368 The Sanity Inspector

The ringmistress of the Rifka Bary circus is in rare form today, in advance of their rally on her behalf in Ohio. That graphic on her front page is a jawdropper.

And clicking further, it's not the only jaw-dropper.

372 J.S.  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:06:18am

Palin and her whole entourage -- What a liability for the Republican Party, but a real boon for the Democrats.

373 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:07:06am

re: #365 Sharmuta

Yet the pressure is constantly put on Israel to make all sorts of concessions, but we can't get one concession from the other side, that being an agreement Israel has the right to exist.

There is no Palestinian side. They are not being represented by those who care about the fate of their people.

Frankly, I think that Israel going to war with Syria would be the only military action that had a ghost's chance of resolving the situation, and that would be terrible.

The Palestinian people need to stand up to the thugs in their midst-- which is somewhat challenging, because, you know, they're thugs.

374 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:07:37am

re: #370 Stanley Sea

Translation - Dude you are whack. Is Soros greasing your palm to be a moby?

375 fat bastard vegetarian  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:08:27am

re: #357 Killgore Trout

Very nice, KT... How'd you find that?

376 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:08:50am

re: #360 Sharmuta

About damn time!

Better late than never. However this is only one local organizer but let's hope it starts a trend.

377 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:09:03am

re: #369 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Every effort should be taken to mitigate and lessen civilian casualties. Organizations like the UN and Red Cross should be used to deal with the refugees.

"Every effort" means not attacking infrastructure or anything other than a military target.

Can you clearly state if you mean "total war" in the classical sense, which includes strikes on infrastructure, intentionally causing deprivation in the civilian population, etc.?

I have no idea what you're actually advocating.

378 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:09:06am

re: #375 fat bastard vegetarian

Posted at stormfront.

379 Dynomite  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:09:22am

re: #370 Stanley Sea

He kind of lost me there.

They lost me when they went after SPLC & ADL, period. Are they partisan? Yes, but often because what they're fighting for (which is a damn good thing) falls on partisan lines.

ADL might go overboard sometimes. SPLC? Come on. SPLC for years has been the one thing here in the deep south keeping a watchful eye over Klan & Klan-related activity.

So the Tea Party guy is anti-David Duke, but has an issue with people who go after the Klan...

Hmmm

380 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:09:35am

re: #374 DaddyG

Translation - Dude you are whack. Is Soros greasing your palm to be a moby?

At that point the teapartier demonstrates his Priority of Paranoias.

381 Guanxi88  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:09:35am

re: #366 charlz

I'm not predicting it, but there's still plenty of time for BHO to become the new LBJ in the eyes of many Dems if the wars continue to go badly. There are parallels to Vietnam.

I was just thinking that the first time I heard about reservations about the Karzai government. Seemed to me I 'd heard that song before.

382 fat bastard vegetarian  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:10:42am

re: #378 Killgore Trout

Well, I'm glad you go there.

(shudder)

383 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:10:52am

re: #373 Obdicut

There is no Palestinian side. They are not being represented by those who care about the fate of their people.

Frankly, I think that Israel going to war with Syria would be the only military action that had a ghost's chance of resolving the situation, and that would be terrible.

The Palestinian people need to stand up to the thugs in their midst-- which is somewhat challenging, because, you know, they're thugs.

I agree the palis are not being represented by politicians who want to improve their conditions. I've spoken with Palestinian-Americans who think the PA is utterly corrupt, and they're correct.

As for Syria- you're missing the target. It's IRAN that's funding the Syrian regime, and funds hamas, and hizbullah. If you really want to change the dynamic in the middle east at this point- it's Iran that holds the keys. Regime change in Iran can't happen soon enough.

384 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:11:00am

re: #370 Stanley Sea

He kind of lost me there.


Even though I'm giving them kudos for doing this they are still very far right and not the kind of people I would associate with.

385 jvic  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:11:01am

re: #354 Decatur Deb

One of the earliest examples of literature is the "Complaint of the Priest of Ptah", 5000 or so years old. Its major theme: "The country is going to hell, and it's all the younger generation's fault."

chuckle Your point would be even funnier if countries didn't ever go to hell...

If history reveals that America is going down the tubes, I won't point at the younger generation. I'll blame a critical mass of my fellow Boomers.

386 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:11:58am

re: #379 Dynomite


ADL might go overboard sometimes. SPLC? Come on. SPLC for years has been the one thing here in the deep south keeping a watchful eye over Klan & Klan-related activity.

Hmmm

Yeah, the Southern Poverty Law Center is a wonderful place that's done incredibly amounts of good work. They rarely stoop to the petty. And they're fearless.

387 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:12:02am

re: #384 Killgore Trout

Even though I'm giving them kudos for doing this they are still very far right and not the kind of people I would associate with.

...because heaven knows Killgore hates to be right.

/sorry you just left it wide open that time.

388 J.S.  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:13:38am

re: #383 Sharmuta

Robert Fulford wrote an interesting column the other day, entitled: A cult of misery and death." Here's the link (worth the read, imo).

389 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:14:29am

re: #323 Locker

Ben you sure make it look like you are quoting something I said when you are in fact quoting a comment on the linked article. I hope you didn't mean to do that on purpose. Peace.

Absolutely not.

Sorry, didn't realize.

Will be sure to add "From your link" next time.

390 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:14:39am

Just a reminder to everyone:

More Palestinians live in Arab states than in Palestine/Israel, and are intentionally kept in desperate poverty


And, to be remotely on-topic: Ye gods, can you imagine what a hash Palin would make of the middle east?

391 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:15:01am

re: #385 jvic

chuckle Your point would be even funnier if countries didn't ever go to hell...

If history reveals that America is going down the tubes, I won't point at the younger generation. I'll blame a critical mass of my fellow Boomers.

When he wrote that, Egypt still had 3000 good years to go. Eventually, everyone runs into a Caesar.

392 subsailor68  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:15:27am

Newsweek - what the? - Here (so ya don't actually have to link to this) is their list of Ten History-Altering Decisions.

10. Jeffords Switches Parties
9. Yahoo Lets Google Win Search Wars
8. McCain Picks Palin
7. Trevor Graham Sends a Syringe to USADA
6. Florida Uses Butterfly Ballots
5. Clinton Signs the Commodities Futures Modernization Act
4. Iraqi Army Disbands
3. U.S. Turns Back from the Battle of Tora Bora
2. Flight 93's Passengers Storm the Cockpit
1. Kerry Picks Obama to Give Keynote 2004 Address

Wow! Hey Newsweek - here are just a few that - while surely not as important as yours - might have been something to think about:

Guttenberg comes up with this movable type thingy.
Confederates fire on Ft. Sumter
Archduke Ferdinand Assassinated
Jonas Salk has an idea
D-Day Begins
Truman Drops the Bomb
U.S. Forces Leave Vietnam
Man Lands on the Moon
Berlin Wall Crumbles

Oh, yeah - Terrorists Fly Planes into World Trade Center.

Just a thought there Newsweek.

393 Kragar  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:15:36am

re: #377 Obdicut

"Every effort" means not attacking infrastructure or anything other than a military target.

Can you clearly state if you mean "total war" in the classical sense, which includes strikes on infrastructure, intentionally causing deprivation in the civilian population, etc.?

I have no idea what you're actually advocating.

As with previous Israeli operations, give notice for civilians to evacuate. Use the resources of the UN and Red Cross to provide safe care for them and protect the civilains in their temporary havens. With Hamas isolated as much as possible, full military engagement would then be possible. The sooner Hamas is eradicated, the sooner civilains would be able to rebuild and get on with their lives.

394 J.S.  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:16:04am

I like Fulford's line: "But his book demonstrates that, while Arabs have surely been exploited, they routinely destroy their own chances of emerging from the coma of stunted development..

395 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:16:23am

re: #390 Obdicut

Just a reminder to everyone:

More Palestinians live in Arab states than in Palestine/Israel, and are intentionally kept in desperate poverty

And, to be remotely on-topic: Ye gods, can you imagine what a hash Palin would make of the middle east?

Pffftt... Better hash in India.

Jaras, Dude.

396 Jeff In Ohio  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:16:32am

re: #390 Obdicut

And, to be remotely on-topic: Ye gods, can you imagine what a hash Palin would make of the middle east?

But of course, if only to hasten the End of Times.

397 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:18:42am

re: #393 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

As with previous Israeli operations, give notice for civilians to evacuate. Use the resources of the UN and Red Cross to provide safe care for them and protect the civilains in their temporary havens. With Hamas isolated as much as possible, full military engagement would then be possible. The sooner Hamas is eradicated, the sooner civilains would be able to rebuild and get on with their lives.

You are still not giving a straight answer. What if the civilians don't evacuate? Hamas would almost certainly prevent them from doing so.

Why would it be the responsibility of the UN and the Red Cross to provide safe care for them? Why would Israel intentionally cause such a strain on the Red Cross, which is fully occupied all the time?

Your plan sounds like a simplistic fantasy.

398 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:18:52am

re: #392 subsailor68

I think your list is better.

399 Buck  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:19:29am

re: #343 webevintage

It is if the sate of Alaska frowns says it is.
It is if the IRS says it has to be declared as income and she did not declare it as income.
And if not fraud it just. looks. bad.

Nope.

It might be fraud IF she didn't do it openly. IF she wrote an actual lie on her expense forms. IF she told people that her daughter was actually an aide... or something like that.

But you make a good point, it would be wrong IF (and you give examples). The point being that as you don't have any proof or evidence of your examples they are moot.

IF my grandmother had wheels, she would be a wheelbarrow.

400 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:20:15am

re: #392 subsailor68


Just a thought there Newsweek.

Don't you know? All history occurred this century, and all of it involved the US.

401 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:21:01am

re: #390 Obdicut

Just a reminder to everyone:

More Palestinians live in Arab states than in Palestine/Israel, and are intentionally kept in desperate poverty

And, to be remotely on-topic: Ye gods, can you imagine what a hash Palin would make of the middle east?

As VP? Probably no different than Joe Biden, which is to say that she wouldn't have done anything. As for a hypothetical President McCain, I don't think he would have gone out of his way to insult allies and force Israel into concessions as Obama has done.

402 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:21:07am

re: #400 Obdicut

Don't you know? All history occurred this century, and all of it involved the US.

And was carried on MTV.

403 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:21:20am

Palin is the Megan Fox of politics.

404 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:21:20am

re: #392 subsailor68

Newsweek - what the? - Here (so ya don't actually have to link to this) is their list of Ten History-Altering Decisions.

10. Jeffords Switches Parties
9. Yahoo Lets Google Win Search Wars
8. McCain Picks Palin
7. Trevor Graham Sends a Syringe to USADA
6. Florida Uses Butterfly Ballots
5. Clinton Signs the Commodities Futures Modernization Act
4. Iraqi Army Disbands
3. U.S. Turns Back from the Battle of Tora Bora
2. Flight 93's Passengers Storm the Cockpit
1. Kerry Picks Obama to Give Keynote 2004 Address

Wow! Hey Newsweek - here are just a few that - while surely not as important as yours - might have been something to think about:

Guttenberg comes up with this movable type thingy.
Confederates fire on Ft. Sumter
Archduke Ferdinand Assassinated
Jonas Salk has an idea
D-Day Begins
Truman Drops the Bomb
U.S. Forces Leave Vietnam
Man Lands on the Moon
Berlin Wall Crumbles

Oh, yeah - Terrorists Fly Planes into World Trade Center.

Just a thought there Newsweek.

Hitler invades the Soviet Union
Lee orders Picket to charge up the middle at Gettysburg
Atilla the Hun invades Gaul
Marie Curie sets radioactive materials on some photographic plates

405 subsailor68  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:22:15am

re: #404 DaddyG

Hitler invades the Soviet Union
Lee orders Picket to charge up the middle at Gettysburg
Atilla the Hun invades Gaul
Marie Curie sets radioactive materials on some photographic plates

Hi DaddyG! Great additions!

406 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:22:35am

re: #388 J.S.

Robert Fulford wrote an interesting column the other day, entitled: A cult of misery and death." Here's the link (worth the read, imo).

Thanks- that was a good read.

407 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:23:12am

re: #404 DaddyG

Einstein has an idea; Fermi shows how it can work; Oppenheimer gets it done with explosive effect.

408 andres  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:23:19am

re: #82 DaddyG

There are two stories here: both governorships were won by portraying a pragmatic conservatism, while NY23 was lost due to loony "conservatism". The former attracts independents, while the latter shuns them.

409 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:23:35am

re: #401 lawhawk

As VP? Probably no different than Joe Biden, which is to say that she wouldn't have done anything. As for a hypothetical President McCain, I don't think he would have gone out of his way to insult allies and force Israel into concessions as Obama has done.

No, I meant as President. Though if she kept Cheney-level interpretation of VP powers, she could probably do some damage there, too.

410 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:25:20am

A decision that changed history?

Japan bombs Pearl Harbor.

(And for those so inclined: Judas betrays Jesus)

411 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:25:21am

re: #409 Obdicut

No, I meant as President. Though if she kept Cheney-level interpretation of VP powers, she could probably do some damage there, too.

I daresay more damage. When she shoots at a lawyer he doesn't survive. /

(Cheney level interpretation of VP powers... heh.)

412 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:26:10am

re: #353 DaddyG

Just curious... as a non-Jew am I considered a Zionist simply because I see Israel as having a right to exist as a nation in the middle east?

You are a Zionist but you don't get checks. However, you are welcome to shop at the Zionist Mall.

413 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:26:16am

re: #355 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Your text to link...

As long as Hamas thinks they can outlast and play the survival game, thinking they can win in the long run by wearing Israel down, they will fight. That illusion must be stripped from them and they must come to the conclusion their only options are surrender or eradication.

they should be in Gaza right now wrecking tunnels, beefing up the physical border with Egypt, hunting down weapons and destroying them...searching every mosque, hospital and school...and making friends wherever possible

414 Kragar  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:26:40am

re: #397 Obdicut

You are still not giving a straight answer. What if the civilians don't evacuate? Hamas would almost certainly prevent them from doing so.

Why would it be the responsibility of the UN and the Red Cross to provide safe care for them? Why would Israel intentionally cause such a strain on the Red Cross, which is fully occupied all the time?

Your plan sounds like a simplistic fantasy.

The current options are:
Change nothing, which is going nowhere
Wipe out Gaza, which is not even worth considering
Long Term sustained military force, which is what will win.


About 2 years ago, the Lebanese army dealt with a Palistinian uprising in exactly that way and it worked, simply because the rest of the world didn't bother them since they weren't Israel. They surrounded them, asked civilians to evacuate, then began military operations, slowly destroying the whole town. When they came across civilians, they pulled them out. Some civilians did die, but in the end, the majority of the civilians were saved, the terrorist cell was completely eradicated and since that time, they have not had a problem in that region.

415 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:26:46am

re: #383 Sharmuta

I agree the palis are not being represented by politicians who want to improve their conditions. I've spoken with Palestinian-Americans who think the PA is utterly corrupt, and they're correct.

As for Syria- you're missing the target. It's IRAN that's funding the Syrian regime, and funds hamas, and hizbullah. If you really want to change the dynamic in the middle east at this point- it's Iran that holds the keys. Regime change in Iran can't happen soon enough.

Sure. But I was talking about military action. Israel couldn't go to war with Iran. Or rather, couldn't successfully go to war with Iran.

And regime change in Iran, like regime change everywhere, depends on the actual people there. We have a role to play, but most of it has to be won on the blood and tears of their own citizens.

416 avanti  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:27:06am

I've been in Vegas for a week day, and apologist if this is old news. "Moonies escort publisher out of Washing Times building."

Moonies.

417 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:27:07am

re: #411 DaddyG

(Cheney level interpretation of VP powers... heh.)

Isn't it up to the President to have his VP as involved or uninvolved as he'd like?

418 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:27:37am

re: #412 Alouette

You are a Zionist but you don't get checks. However, you are welcome to shop at the Zionist Mall.


Is that where I can get that dead sea salt skin conditioner? (The Mrs. picked some up after a conversation with a swarthy blue eyed guy. Nice sales technique.)

419 subsailor68  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:27:55am

re: #407 lawhawk

Einstein has an idea; Fermi shows how it can work; Oppenheimer gets it done with explosive effect.

Brilliant! And then,

Japan recovers. Designs Toyotas and Nissans.

GM Goes Belly Up.

Taxpayers End Up Owning GM.

Continue to Buy Toyotas and Nissans anyway.

420 Ben Hur  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:28:20am

re: #404 DaddyG

Hitler invades the Soviet Union
Lee orders Picket to charge up the middle at Gettysburg
Atilla the Hun invades Gaul
Marie Curie sets radioactive materials on some photographic plates

Ben Hur registers at Little Green Footballs.

421 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:29:02am

re: #417 Sharmuta

Isn't it up to the President to have his VP as involved or uninvolved as he'd like?


It was Carl Rove baby!! /

422 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:29:16am

re: #404 DaddyG

(This post has been translated into MTV-speak for your convenience.)

Dude named Abraham signs something about Emancipation.

This island place, Great something-or-other, votes to end legal slavery in their country and fight it elsewhere.

The Georgester, who had a great pitching arm, decides to attack some mercenaries across a river on Christmas Eve. Hadn't even gotten his shopping done, probably.

There was this thing, a river I think, called a Rubicon. Somebody crossed it with a whole lot of his peeps. News, I guess.

300 really ripped dudes from this country in Greece fight some other dudes in masks over a road pass. Could've just taken the train, dude. Chips and drinks and stuff, too.

Some scientist dude (Bo-ring) didn't clean out his petri dishes and something grew in it. Other scientists got all excited. Then they found a moldy cantaloupe and everybody got all worked up about it.

(I'm having too much fun. I have to stop.)

423 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:29:26am

re: #415 Obdicut

Sure. But I was talking about military action. Israel couldn't go to war with Iran. Or rather, couldn't successfully go to war with Iran.

And regime change in Iran, like regime change everywhere, depends on the actual people there. We have a role to play, but most of it has to be won on the blood and tears of their own citizens.

Dealing with regime change in Iran does have a lot to do with the Iranian people, but based on the Green Revolution we saw a few months ago, I think the people are motivated.

As for military action- yes, it's more than Israel could do alone, but I'm still hopeful the Saudis will be fearful enough of Persians with nukes to apply the appropriate pressure on the United States to deal with this issue. It might actually be a point where Israel and her Arab neighbors can find common ground.

424 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:29:33am

re: #414 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I can see I'm not going to get a straight answer out of you.

That's too bad. I would think that if you advocated a position you'd want to make your position clear, not hint at it.

re: #411 DaddyG

I daresay more damage. When she shoots at a lawyer he doesn't survive. /

(Cheney level interpretation of VP powers... heh.)


Yeah, but the guy Cheney shot in the face apologized to Cheney. That blew my mind.

425 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:29:47am

re: #412 Alouette

You are a Zionist but you don't get checks. However, you are welcome to shop at the Zionist Mall.

For six months, I thought you were talking about Kfar Saba.

426 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:30:25am

re: #377 Obdicut

"Every effort" means not attacking infrastructure or anything other than a military target.

Can you clearly state if you mean "total war" in the classical sense, which includes strikes on infrastructure, intentionally causing deprivation in the civilian population, etc.?

I have no idea what you're actually advocating.

don't be obtuse...in this case total war means liquidating Hama/Hezz as a fighting force...you have to measure the violence by the situation as it presents itself...just think it through

427 webevintage  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:30:28am

re: #399 Buck

Nope.

IF my grandmother had wheels, she would be a wheelbarrow.

I'd pay money to see that...


Anyways...
Sarah and her tax problems:

[Link: sarahpalintruthsquad.wordpress.com...]

[Link: www.nydailynews.com...]

[Link: www.newsmax.com...]

[Link: www.adn.com...]

With that I'm gone, gotta take the kid to the Doctor...

428 jvic  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:30:38am

re: #391 Decatur Deb

When he wrote that, Egypt still had 3000 good years to go. Eventually, everyone runs into a Caesar.

But not every would-be Caesar is inevitable.

And I'll draw a distinction between Egypt's good years as a political enterprise and how the bulk of its people lived.

I couldn't find that Ptah complaint and would appreciate a link.

I'd like to continue this DD, but there is a strong chance that I have more years left than I have resources to pay for. So, like the Pharaohs' peasants, I'd best get back to hewing and toting (data).

429 Buck  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:30:51am

re: #353 DaddyG

Just curious... as a non-Jew am I considered a Zionist simply because I see Israel as having a right to exist as a nation in the middle east?

I think a Zionist also believes that Jews should live in Israel. I have been called a ZINO because as a Jew I don't live in Israel.

430 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:31:07am

re: #424 Obdicut

I can see I'm not going to get a straight answer out of you.

That's too bad. I would think that if you advocated a position you'd want to make your position clear, not hint at it.

re: #411 DaddyG


Yeah, but the guy Cheney shot in the face apologized to Cheney. That blew my mind.


They both broke some hunting etiquette and safety rules and they both apologized for the shooting and the fuss. It really wasnt that sinister.

431 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:32:00am

re: #427 webevintage

With that I'm gone, gotta take the kid to the Doctor...

What kind of priorities are those? Kids over LGF? /

432 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:32:19am

re: #428 jvic

But not every would-be Caesar is inevitable.

And I'll draw a distinction between Egypt's good years as a political enterprise and how the bulk of its people lived.

I couldn't find that Ptah complaint and would appreciate a link.

I'd like to continue this DD, but there is a strong chance that I have more years left than I have resources to pay for. So, like the Pharaohs' peasants, I'd best get back to hewing and toting (data).

I'll dig it out and post again. I've got a feeling this subject will be back.

433 Kragar  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:32:23am

re: #424 Obdicut

I can see I'm not going to get a straight answer out of you.

That's too bad. I would think that if you advocated a position you'd want to make your position clear, not hint at it.

I can see you're a waste of time.

434 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:32:32am

re: #423 Sharmuta

Dealing with regime change in Iran does have a lot to do with the Iranian people, but based on the Green Revolution we saw a few months ago, I think the people are motivated.

As for military action- yes, it's more than Israel could do alone, but I'm still hopeful the Saudis will be fearful enough of Persians with nukes to apply the appropriate pressure on the United States to deal with this issue. It might actually be a point where Israel and her Arab neighbors can find common ground.

That we are allies with the Saudis at all makes me so goddamn angry every day.

Shameful women, going about with uncovered faces!

I do not think the US should respond to any pressure from Saudi Arabia.

435 DaddyG  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:32:50am

re: #429 Buck

I think a Zionist also believes that Jews should live in Israel. I have been called a ZINO because as a Jew I don't live in Israel.


I am really happy I don't have to settle in Utah. Nuff said.

436 albusteve  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:35:04am

re: #433 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I can see you're a waste of time.

a fun guy eh?...he'll be calling you names soon...hahaha!

437 subsailor68  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:35:19am

re: #435 DaddyG

I am really happy I don't have to settle in Utah. Nuff said.

Yeah, but ya really gotta love a place where you can get Polygamy Porter (well, it's not a particularly strong beer - but still). Love their slogan: "Why Have Just One?" Although, some folks I worked with didn't think it was all that funny.

438 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:35:24am

re: #418 DaddyG

Is that where I can get that dead sea salt skin conditioner? (The Mrs. picked some up after a conversation with a swarthy blue eyed guy. Nice sales technique.)

All Ahava products, much cheaper than at the mall. Especially recommend the Botanical body wash, comes in six difference fragrances.

439 filetandrelease  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:37:24am

Snip

Bad news for Dems in Iowa
Richard Baehr

The bad news for Iowa Democrats is that a poll by the highly respected Selzer & Co. for the Des Moines Register shows the incumbent Democrat Governor, Chet Culver, losing badly (by 24%!) in his re-election bid to former Republican Governor Terry Branstad, a likely candidate for the GOP.

The darn independents again showing signs of going left.

440 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:45:15am

re: #404 DaddyG

Hitler invades the Soviet Union
Lee orders Picket to charge up the middle at Gettysburg
Atilla the Hun invades Gaul
Marie Curie sets radioactive materials on some photographic plates

J.R. Ewing is shot. :)

441 tradewind  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:49:51am

Al Gore, stayin' classy.
[Link: newsbusters.org...]

442 Semper Fi  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 10:57:24am

re: #429 Buck

I think a Zionist also believes that Jews should live in Israel. I have been called a ZINO because as a Jew I don't live in Israel.

A long time ago, I attended a class on Jewish Mysticism of which I remember almost nothing except our discussion regarding, Who is a Zionist?" The instructor was emphatic that a Zionist is a Jew who actually moves to Israel. Wanting to move or declaring 'next year' was not good enough to qualify one as a Zionist.

To me, it made sense.

443 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 11:02:06am

re: #434 Obdicut

That we are allies with the Saudis at all makes me so goddamn angry every day.

Shameful women, going about with uncovered faces!

I do not think the US should respond to any pressure from Saudi Arabia.

I'm not any happier about it than you are, but in reality, we need their oil, so we play kissy face with them. The one point on foreign relations where I agree with the house of saud is stopping Iran from getting a nuke. Any pressure we get from the sauds on this issue is one I will accept because frankly it's in the entire regions best interests that Iran fails to get these weapons. They want to wipe off Israel from the face of the map, and that will kill just as many muslims as it will kill Israelis. It must be stopped, whether we like the sauds or not.

444 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 11:12:03am

re: #443 Sharmuta

I'm not any happier about it than you are, but in reality, we need their oil, so we play kissy face with them. The one point on foreign relations where I agree with the house of saud is stopping Iran from getting a nuke. Any pressure we get from the sauds on this issue is one I will accept because frankly it's in the entire regions best interests that Iran fails to get these weapons. They want to wipe off Israel from the face of the map, and that will kill just as many muslims as it will kill Israelis. It must be stopped, whether we like the sauds or not.

First of all, Iran would not simply launch an attack on Israel. Israel existing is great for the religious zealots in Iran. It's wonderful propaganda. Nuking Israel, however, would be absolutely suicidal and remove them from power.

Second, there is no way to stop Iran from aquiring a nuclear weapon. You can stop it this year, perhaps, or next year, or the year after, but there is no way to prevent a nation from gaining technology forever. It can't be done.

But it doesn't have to be the current bunch of religious whackjobs and cynical oligarchs who are in control of Iran.

What we need to do is to make sure that that we nurture and support the pro-West, pro-Democracy younger movement in Iran. Attacking Iran, however, strengthens the support for the regime enormously. It would be incredibly unwise. I fear we will still do it.

445 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 11:17:21am

re: #444 Obdicut

What we need to do is to make sure that that we nurture and support the pro-West, pro-Democracy younger movement in Iran. Attacking Iran, however, strengthens the support for the regime enormously. It would be incredibly unwise. I fear we will still do it.

I agree the matter would be best resolved by assisting change from within. I hope it happens soon, as it's my personal desire to see as much of humanity living in freedom and prosperity as possible.

446 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 11:19:40am

re: #445 Sharmuta

I agree the matter would be best resolved by assisting change from within. I hope it happens soon, as it's my personal desire to see as much of humanity living in freedom and prosperity as possible.

On my happy days I'm full of hope for that, in my sadder days I remember how long it took from the end of World War II until now-- and Russia is just under a gang of different thugs now.

I wish people in the US would realize how precious and wonderful what we have here now, no matter how serious our political divisions seem.

447 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 11:22:54am

re: #446 Obdicut

I wish people in the US would realize how precious and wonderful what we have here now, no matter how serious our political divisions seem.

Many in the US do realize that, and you can find many of them here at LGF. :)

And I hear you- I have hopeful days and days where it feels as though the worst of human nature will win. Those days, I think of Samwise:

448 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 11:26:50am

re: #447 Sharmuta

Many in the US do realize that, and you can find many of them here at LGF. :)

And I hear you- I have hopeful days and days where it feels as though the worst of human nature will win. Those days, I think of Samwise:


[Video]

Aw, Sam.

Thanks for that.

449 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 11:29:02am

re: #428 jvic

This is the best reference the literature I've been able to grab. I've got the text somewhere. The priest is probably Ptah-hotep, but could be Mennes.
Both wrote discourses to wayward sons.

450 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 11:31:00am

re: #449 Decatur Deb

Link:

[Link: www.kemet.org...]

451 Thor-Zone  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 12:22:36pm

The McCain people learned what we in Alaska have known for years. Sorry that it took them so long.

452 Hawkins  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 12:33:10pm

re: #392 subsailor68

Newsweek - what the? - Here (so ya don't actually have to link to this) is their list of Ten History-Altering Decisions.


Mr Sailor:

In their defense, Newsweek didn't say that these were the Top 10 Most Important History-Altering Decisions, or anything like it. The article is merely slugged Ten History-Altering Decisions.

I didn't think they were very interesting until I read the article. Turns out they were all relatively minor decisions, at the time, which had enormous historical consequences.

I don't believe there's any implication that their list is any more important than your list.

453 Buck  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 4:12:49pm

re: #442 Semper Fi

A long time ago, I attended a class on Jewish Mysticism of which I remember almost nothing except our discussion regarding, Who is a Zionist?" The instructor was emphatic that a Zionist is a Jew who actually moves to Israel. Wanting to move or declaring 'next year' was not good enough to qualify one as a Zionist.

To me, it made sense.

I think that was my Mom...

454 shai_au  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 6:36:02pm

re: #6 freetoken

I wonder how long this finger pointing in the GOP will continue? Suspect that Palin is getting short-term gain at the cost of long-term vigor of the GOP. Come post-2010 election the GOP will need a new crop of leaders that aren't bogged down in the old battles.

Bit of a late reply - different timezones and all that - but I doubt Palin is at all concerned with the future of the GOP, or the GOP in general. If she sees any long-term future at all, it will be as an independent, or in a new political party.

She seems a bit like Pauline Hanson was down here in Australia, although less openly racist.

455 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:05:16pm

re: #69 funky chicken

Ronald Reagan was neither a religio/social conservative nor a theocrat. It's a common mistake his critics from the left and his worshippers from the right make.

I love you...

456 Ramona  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:10:25pm

re: #9 DaddyG

her book will be in the bargain bin by Easter.

You can pre-order it on Amazon now for $9.95

457 Ramona  Mon, Nov 16, 2009 7:24:32pm

re: #259 charlz

What's wrong with this picture? At least 7% would consider voting for someone they believe not qualified to be President??


Exactly what's wrong with this country. Sorta Scarry


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