Here’s a perfect example of why I simply ignore most of the “outrageous outrages of the day” that pour out of the wingnut blogs and media like clowns out of a circus Volkswagen: the incredibly stupid claim that President Obama was going to ban sport fishing.
Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh jumped all over this crappie story, of course.
1 |
Obdicut Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:25:52pm |
How do people keep getting hooked by these fish tales?
/I'm sorry.
| 3 |
brookly red Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:27:51pm |
/I invite all libs in NYC to not only catch but also to eat something from the East River.
| 4 |
lawhawk Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:28:21pm |
Hmm... misrepresenting information to further political goals? Who would have thunk it? /
Fish stocks are depleted in many parts of the country, and some species are in serious trouble. Taking action is important to prevent their extinction. Does this mean banning sport fishing? Nope. It might mean limiting it to certain areas or times to let the areas recover. That's just common sense.
Which is lacking from those pushing the "ban sport fishing" meme.
| 5 |
Varek Raith Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:28:34pm |
Good gravy! Does Rush think Obama is god?!
Heh, idiot.
| 7 |
brookly red Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:29:03pm |
re: #3 brookly red
/I invite all libs in NYC to not only catch but also to eat something from the East River.
unless of course it is wearing a pinky ring....
| 8 |
Shiplord Kirel Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:29:24pm |
I thought surely they would try to take away our guns first. Is this some kind of Alinsky-inspired misdirection strategy? If so, it seems a little risky to me.
| 9 |
wrenchwench Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:31:03pm |
I thought I smelt a fish pun thread coming up.
| 10 |
Kragar Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:31:10pm |
Next thing you know, He'll want to ban the use of automatic weapons while hunting endangered species from helicopters like our founding fathers always envisioned us doing, the dirty commie bastard.
///
| 11 |
brookly red Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:31:12pm |
re: #8 Shiplord Kirel
I thought surely they would try to take away our guns first. Is this some kind of Alinsky-inspired misdirection strategy? If so, it seems a little risky to me.
any action that would not rely on gubermint dependence is frowned upon.
| 12 |
cliffster Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:32:14pm |
Can't stop me from catching a five pound bass
| 13 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:32:30pm |
re: #4 lawhawk
Hmm... misrepresenting information to further political goals? Who would have thunk it? /
Fish stocks are depleted in many parts of the country, and some species are in serious trouble. Taking action is important to prevent their extinction. Does this mean banning sport fishing? Nope. It might mean limiting it to certain areas or times to let the areas recover. That's just common sense.
Which is lacking from those pushing the "ban sport fishing" meme.
The concept that there's give and take when resources are limited seems to baffle some folks.
| 14 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:32:52pm |
re: #8 Shiplord Kirel
I thought surely they would try to take away our guns first. Is this some kind of Alinsky-inspired misdirection strategy? If so, it seems a little risky to me.
No, this obviously a way to ensure that those who do not take the Mark of the One are not able to feed themselves from the rivers and streams, nor escape by boat.
| 15 |
Batman Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:33:05pm |
Sport fishing isn't random enough a thing to ban. I'm hoping he'll ban snail watching first. Then he can move onto the more obvious stuff.
| 16 |
Obdicut Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:33:11pm |
re: #13 SanFranciscoZionist
I lot of people honestly believe the free market is the best possible regulator of the commons.
It's kind of nutty.
| 17 |
brookly red Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:33:22pm |
re: #13 SanFranciscoZionist
The concept that there's give and take when resources are limited seems to baffle some folks.
but yet we keep voting for them...
| 18 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:35:27pm |
re: #16 Obdicut
I lot of people honestly believe the free market is the best possible regulator of the commons.
It's kind of nutty.
It would be cuter if it weren't so inherently stupid in many cases.
| 20 |
darthstar Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:36:05pm |
re: #3 brookly red
/I invite all libs in NYC to not only catch but also to eat something from the East River.
Hey, a 220 pound snitch can feed a family for a month.
| 21 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:36:48pm |
re: #20 darthstar
Hey, a 220 pound snitch can feed a family for a month.
Snitch steaks, snitch stew, snitch sausages, snitch gravy...
| 22 |
Vicious Babushka Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:36:49pm |
Ban salt in NYC
Ban sport fishing
What next? Ban lutefisk?
| 23 |
darthstar Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:36:53pm |
| 24 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:37:06pm |
re: #5 Varek Raith
Good gravy! Does Rush think Obama is god?!
Heh, idiot.
No, he thinks that Obama is the devil or even worse, a Sith!
| 25 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:37:11pm |
re: #19 wee fury
Ice fishing is over rated anyway.
Most freshwater fishing falls under the Emo Phillips rule:
There's a fine line between fishing and just sitting next to a river like an idiot.
| 26 |
solomonpanting Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:37:18pm |
re: #1 Obdicut
How do people keep getting hooked by these fish tales?
/I'm sorry.
With Beck as a master baiter, it's easy.
| 27 |
b_sharp Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:37:27pm |
These two just have to carp about something don't they?
| 28 |
darthstar Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:38:09pm |
re: #25 Guanxi88
Most freshwater fishing falls under the Emo Phillips rule:
There's a fine line between fishing and just sitting next to a river like an idiot.
There's nothing wrong with sitting by a river like an idiot. Just bring beer, maybe some good herb, and enjoy the day. Fishing pole optional.
| 29 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:38:23pm |
re: #27 b_sharp
These two just have to carp about something don't they?
Typical bottom-feeder punning. Try trolling elsewhere, cause ya ain't getting any bites.
| 30 |
b_sharp Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:38:46pm |
re: #23 darthstar
And it's not easy...I raise my own ice.
Must be tough to brand them during roundup.
| 32 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:39:20pm |
re: #28 darthstar
There's nothing wrong with sitting by a river like an idiot. Just bring beer, maybe some good herb, and enjoy the day. Fishing pole optional.
oddly enough, #1 & #2 daughters are enthused at the prospect of going fishing once things warm up a bit. They're absolutely fascinated by the thing. A good thing, to my mind, and one to be encouraged.
| 33 |
brookly red Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:39:24pm |
| 34 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:39:37pm |
re: #27 b_sharp
These two just have to carp about something don't they?
They didn't do well in school, that's all.
| 35 |
cliffster Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:39:37pm |
I haven't slept for 10 days, because that would be too long
-- Mitch Hedberg
| 36 |
solomonpanting Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:40:38pm |
| 37 |
wee fury Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:40:54pm |
| 38 |
brookly red Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:41:14pm |
| 39 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:41:44pm |
| 40 |
darthstar Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:41:48pm |
| 41 |
Idle Drifter Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:41:58pm |
The only thing I want concerning fish and fishing is the severence of the Great Lakes System from the Mississippi to keep Asian Carps out.
| 42 |
Boondock St. Bender Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:42:08pm |
re: #3 brookly red
Stripers from there are more than fine to eat(and one of the best places to catch em as well)
| 43 |
b_sharp Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:42:09pm |
re: #31 nonsense
re: #26 solomonpanting
I can't upding you hard enough.
Obviously Solomon is panting because he's already hard enough.
(Sorry)
| 44 |
Feline Fearless Leader Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:42:59pm |
re: #3 brookly red
/I invite all libs in NYC to not only catch but also to eat something from the East River.
They can put their Long Island Sound sea salt on it for that extra special flavor./
| 45 |
solomonpanting Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:43:32pm |
| 46 |
brookly red Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:43:37pm |
re: #42 Boondock St. Bender
Stripers from there are more than fine to eat(and one of the best places to catch em as well)
I you pull a stripper from the East River, I don't want to know about it...
| 47 |
cliffster Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:43:42pm |
My friend asked me if I wanted a frozen banana, and I thought no, but I want a regular banana later, so - yeah
-- Mitch Hedberg
| 48 |
Boondock St. Bender Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:44:44pm |
what would you rather ask the wife?
hey honey,tomorrow i'm gonna sit by the beach and drink beer all day,o.k.?
or
hey honey tomorrow i'm gonna go fishing,o.k.?
it's common sense people!
| 49 |
b_sharp Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:45:03pm |
re: #39 Dark_Falcon
What did I do to merit a downding?
I didn't downding you. Maybe someone thought you were too soft?
| 51 |
darthstar Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:45:45pm |
re: #48 Boondock St. Bender
what would you rather ask the wife?
hey honey,tomorrow i'm gonna sit by the beach and drink beer all day,o.k.?
or
hey honey tomorrow i'm gonna go fishing,o.k.?it's common sense people!
My wife says, "Throw a bottle of wine in the ice chest and I'll come with you."
| 53 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:46:48pm |
re: #49 b_sharp
I didn't downding you. Maybe someone thought you were too soft?
You downdinged my #34. It might have just been a mistake.
| 54 |
Idle Drifter Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:47:12pm |
re: #46 brookly red
I you pull a stripper from the East River, I don't want to know about it...
I've heard they tend to sleep with strange bedfellows.
/
| 56 |
brookly red Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:48:09pm |
| 57 |
Boondock St. Bender Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:48:20pm |
I've dumped a few in the river,never fished one out though
/
| 58 |
brookly red Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:49:05pm |
re: #57 Boondock St. Bender
I've dumped a few in the river,never fished one out though
/
Vinny! was up!
| 59 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:49:16pm |
Don't have to ask permission if I wanna go out fishin'....
Tom Waits - Better Off Without A Wife
| 60 |
Boondock St. Bender Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:49:22pm |
being serious though,who could have read that story,and for one minute thought it was for real?
| 61 |
Petero1818 Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:49:53pm |
re: #13 SanFranciscoZionist
The concept that there's give and take when resources are limited seems to baffle some folks.
nah those folks understand it fine. The fish give, and the irresponsible folks take and take and take
| 62 |
Idle Drifter Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:50:01pm |
re: #57 Boondock St. Bender
I've dumped a few in the river,never fished one out though
/
I tend to stay away from men who own pig farms next to a dentist and barber shops.
/
| 63 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:50:12pm |
re: #60 Boondock St. Bender
being serious though,who could have read that story,and for one minute thought it was for real?
A wingnut who wanted to believe the worst about President Obama.
| 64 |
cliffster Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:50:30pm |
I got my hair highlighted because I think some strands are more important than others.
-- Mitch Hedberg
| 65 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:50:37pm |
And here I was thinking the next outrage would be this story:
| 66 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:50:46pm |
re: #60 Boondock St. Bender
being serious though,who could have read that story,and for one minute thought it was for real?
Someone who is expecting a socialist takeover of the country, and expects this with such perfect faith that the evidence of their eyes and all common sense means nothing.
Look at all the people who were stockpiling ammunition because Obama was 'going to take it away'.
| 67 |
RogueOne Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:51:42pm |
re: #35 cliffster
I haven't slept for 10 days, because that would be too long
-- Mitch Hedberg
I miss Mitch.
| 68 |
The Sanity Inspector Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:51:48pm |
A good backgrounder from one of the principals of the story, who locked horns with the ESPN blogger who started the rumor, is here.
| 69 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:51:51pm |
re: #65 reine.de.tout
And here I was thinking the next outrage would be this story:
Hmm...Wired is running a lot of crazy wingnut stories lately. I wonder if Murdoch bought them or something.
| 70 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:52:24pm |
I'd at least be willing to discuss the idea of forgoing my recreational fishing privileges if, and only if, it meant that we could deport these two barking BONSAIS to a country run by a theocracy.
| 71 |
SixDegrees Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:52:33pm |
re: #4 lawhawk
Hmm... misrepresenting information to further political goals? Who would have thunk it? /
Fish stocks are depleted in many parts of the country, and some species are in serious trouble. Taking action is important to prevent their extinction. Does this mean banning sport fishing? Nope. It might mean limiting it to certain areas or times to let the areas recover. That's just common sense.
Which is lacking from those pushing the "ban sport fishing" meme.
If anyone wants to fish, they're welcome to come to southern Lake Michigan and troll to their heart's content for Asian Carp. They've been found in the Illinois River - one tail swish away from the lake - and their DNA has been detected in the lake itself, although this remains somewhat controversial.
Nonetheless, bring your tackle, nets, clubs, dynamite and whatever else you want to use to wipe the beasties out, then start working your way upstream toward the Mississippi River, letting your fish killing blood rage spill over all they way.
| 72 |
Cato the Elder Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:52:42pm |
The idiot who writes the formerly funny "Day By Day" cartoons went this one better and implied Obama was going to ban hunting, too.
Then suggested he'd better be careful or he'd end up like Louis the Sixteenth.
But it's OK, because one of his sexy young conservobot characters is black.
Seriously bad shit.
| 73 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:52:42pm |
re: #66 SanFranciscoZionist
Someone who is expecting a socialist takeover of the country, and expects this with such perfect faith that the evidence of their eyes and all common sense means nothing.
Look at all the people who were stockpiling ammunition because Obama was 'going to take it away'.
"Was" going to take it away? Who's stopped?
| 74 |
Velvet Elvis Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:52:50pm |
re: #63 Dark_Falcon
A wingnut who wanted to believe the worst about President Obama.
Even if you believed the worst about Obama, what would make you think he could stop people from fishing?
| 75 |
cliffster Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:53:22pm |
An escalator can never break: it can only become stairs. You should never see an Escalator Temporarily Out Of Order sign, just Escalator Temporarily Stairs. Sorry for the convenience.
-- Mitch Hedberg
| 76 |
Idle Drifter Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:53:24pm |
re: #66 SanFranciscoZionist
Someone who is expecting a socialist takeover of the country, and expects this with such perfect faith that the evidence of their eyes and all common sense means nothing.
Look at all the people who were stockpiling ammunition because Obama was 'going to take it away'.
I stockpiled before the election because ammo was cheaper and I was anticipating the loons buying up all the surplus. Which is why I want to start reloading my own ammo because it's cheaper in the long term.
| 77 |
b_sharp Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:53:42pm |
re: #53 Dark_Falcon
You downdinged my #34. It might have just been a mistake.
Yup, a major finger slip. I correct it.
| 78 |
brookly red Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:54:07pm |
re: #69 Killgore Trout
Hmm...Wired is running a lot of crazy wingnut stories lately. I wonder if Murdoch bought them or something.
DNA sampling on arrest? It will come Obama or the next guy... it will come.
| 79 |
Sol Berdinowitz Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:54:53pm |
I even found myself googling the topic earlier because I haed heard enough mentions of it in the blogosphere and determined it was crap.
But it got my attentin, which was sufficient to make it content for Rush and Glenn. Shiny things!!!
| 80 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:55:22pm |
re: #4 lawhawk
Hmm... misrepresenting information to further political goals? Who would have thunk it? /
Fish stocks are depleted in many parts of the country, and some species are in serious trouble. Taking action is important to prevent their extinction. Does this mean banning sport fishing? Nope. It might mean limiting it to certain areas or times to let the areas recover. That's just common sense.
Which is lacking from those pushing the "ban sport fishing" meme.
And limiting sport fishing to certain species isn't exactly new, is it?
Louisiana Saltwater regs
Louisiana Freshwater Regs
All sorts of restrictions in there, for the purpose of preserving certain species.
| 81 |
Cato the Elder Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:55:41pm |
re: #78 brookly red
DNA sampling on arrest? It will come Obama or the next guy... it will come.
Why not? As the Bushwhackers were wont to say when people bitched about illegal wiretapping, "If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide."
| 82 |
Boondock St. Bender Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:55:54pm |
if it catches a rapist or two,i got no problem with it.
| 83 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:56:30pm |
re: #76 Idle Drifter
I stockpiled before the election because ammo was cheaper and I was anticipating the loons buying up all the surplus. Which is why I want to start reloading my own ammo because it's cheaper in the long term.
I think this must have been a regional phenomenon. Everyone here was wailing last winter about how they couldn't get ammo, and the price was going up, and etc., and I asked some of my students who shoot if they were having trouble. They looked baffled and said that they bought their ammo from the sporting-goods place on San Pablo Avenue.
| 84 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:56:44pm |
re: #71 SixDegrees
If anyone wants to fish, they're welcome to come to southern Lake Michigan and troll to their heart's content for Asian Carp. They've been found in the Illinois River - one tail swish away from the lake - and their DNA has been detected in the lake itself, although this remains somewhat controversial.
Nonetheless, bring your tackle, nets, clubs, dynamite and whatever else you want to use to wipe the beasties out, then start working your way upstream toward the Mississippi River, letting your fish killing blood rage spill over all they way.
Yes, please. Those damn things will damage the lake immensely.
| 85 |
BARACK THE VOTE Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:56:57pm |
re: #69 Killgore Trout
Hmm...Wired is running a lot of crazy wingnut stories lately. I wonder if Murdoch bought them or something.
I've noticed that too. At least, the two pieces about Brietbart yesterday by Shachtman. What's going on over there?
| 86 |
Shiplord Kirel Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:57:30pm |
re: #78 brookly red
DNA sampling on arrest? It will come Obama or the next guy... it will come.
Only if they are suspected of being Asian carp:
re: #71 SixDegrees
If anyone wants to fish, they're welcome to come to southern Lake Michigan and troll to their heart's content for Asian Carp. They've been found in the Illinois River - one tail swish away from the lake - and their DNA has been detected in the lake itself, although this remains somewhat controversial.
| 87 |
The Sanity Inspector Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:57:50pm |
Phish
| 88 |
b_sharp Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:58:00pm |
re: #81 Cato the Elder
Why not? As the Bushwhackers were wont to say when people bitched about illegal wiretapping, "If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide."
Do they already take finger prints? If so, DNA is just a technology improvement.
Wiretapping isn't quite the same thing.
| 89 |
Idle Drifter Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:58:04pm |
re: #71 SixDegrees
If anyone wants to fish, they're welcome to come to southern Lake Michigan and troll to their heart's content for Asian Carp. They've been found in the Illinois River - one tail swish away from the lake - and their DNA has been detected in the lake itself, although this remains somewhat controversial.
Nonetheless, bring your tackle, nets, clubs, dynamite and whatever else you want to use to wipe the beasties out, then start working your way upstream toward the Mississippi River, letting your fish killing blood rage spill over all they way.
The Rock Bass in the Detroit River have been eating the Goby Darters so their numbers are not in check but at least dented. What'll eat Asian Carp in the Great Lakes or at least the thousands of eggs they produce?
| 90 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:58:15pm |
re: #82 Boondock St. Bender
if it catches a rapist or two,i got no problem with it.
Just off the top of my head, this does not particularly bother me.
But I don't have a set-in-stone opinion on it.
I've seen nothing to indicate that DNA results have been used for any sort of nefarious seekrit gubmint reasons.
| 91 |
brookly red Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:58:18pm |
re: #81 Cato the Elder
Why not? As the Bushwhackers were wont to say when people bitched about illegal wiretapping, "If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide."
I have no problem with it... how many guys gotta do twenty before the DNA cleared them?
| 92 |
Stanghazi Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:58:31pm |
re: #68 The Sanity Inspector
A good backgrounder from one of the principals of the story, who locked horns with the ESPN blogger who started the rumor, is here.
Oh the fear!!! Check this comment:
I was horrified when I heard about this. You can make excuses all you want for the Obama administration, but he is going after every industry one at a time. He is 'equal opportunity' once he sets his sights on one, from pharmacy, to "big" oil, banking, insurance (really vilified today), fishing, foreign auto, so I don't trust him or his appointees to work this out and make it better for anyone. In his nanny state, we will all wear diapers and be told to keep our mouthes shut.
| 93 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:58:34pm |
re: #84 Dark_Falcon
Yes, please. Those damn things will damage the lake immensely.
They oughta do with them like they tried down here with the alligator gar: big honking barges to electrocute and dynamite the things. They were nearly extinct by the time they got done with 'em.
Shame, cause alligator gar's a neat fish, if a bit scary.
| 94 |
garhighway Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:58:51pm |
re: #78 brookly red
DNA sampling on arrest? It will come Obama or the next guy... it will come.
And what distinguishes a DNA sample from a fingerprint? Purely speculative crap about family histories, judgments about propensity to crime and the like.
Simple fix: take DNA every time, and limit its use to comparison with DNA samples from unsolved crimes for identification purposes. Period.
We catch more rapists, and the DNA doesn't get used for the things Wired was worried about.
Catching rapists is good.
| 95 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:59:07pm |
| 96 |
brookly red Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:59:29pm |
re: #94 garhighway
And what distinguishes a DNA sample from a fingerprint? Purely speculative crap about family histories, judgments about propensity to crime and the like.
Simple fix: take DNA every time, and limit its use to comparison with DNA samples from unsolved crimes for identification purposes. Period.
We catch more rapists, and the DNA doesn't get used for the things Wired was worried about.
Catching rapists is good.
take it at birth.
| 97 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:59:40pm |
re: #22 Alouette
You might get a laugh out of this. A giggle or a cackle is also acceptable. Perhaps even a chortle. Guffaws are strictly forbidden, though.
| 98 |
Gus Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:59:47pm |
I see the fishing ban conspiracy has made it to the Wingnut-Media-Complex&tade; Now that Rush and Glenn are spreading this conspiracy "it must be true!" This conspiracy was first initiated by EPSN blogger Robert Montgomery and isn't even based on hearsay but paranoid assumption about groups associated with the White House panel.
| 99 |
b_sharp Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:59:53pm |
| 100 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Mar 12, 2010 1:59:53pm |
re: #91 brookly red
I have no problem with it... how many guys gotta do twenty before the DNA cleared them?
Big in the news case here awhile back - a convicted rapist was released based on DNA - and the DNA led to the arrest and conviction of the real rapist, who happend to be the brother of the wrongly convicted man.
| 101 |
Gus Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:00:15pm |
| 102 |
b_sharp Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:00:59pm |
Lizards, can you watch my laptop for me, I have to go pick up the wife from work.
Thanks.
P.S. Beer's in the fridge.
| 103 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:01:34pm |
re: #93 Guanxi88
They oughta do with them like they tried down here with the alligator gar: big honking barges to electrocute and dynamite the things. They were nearly extinct by the time they got done with 'em.
Shame, cause alligator gar's a neat fish, if a bit scary.
What they ought to do is turn the fish barrier in the Sanitary and Ship Canal up to full power and only drop it down at set intervals for boats. That would keep the carp at bay.
| 104 |
goddamnedfrank Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:01:43pm |
re: #83 SanFranciscoZionist
I think this must have been a regional phenomenon. Everyone here was wailing last winter about how they couldn't get ammo, and the price was going up, and etc., and I asked some of my students who shoot if they were having trouble. They looked baffled and said that they bought their ammo from the sporting-goods place on San Pablo Avenue.
Your students probably weren't trying to buy twenty thousand rounds of .223 at a time. Hoarders aren't looking to pay the over the counter per box price, they want a volume discount.
| 105 |
brookly red Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:01:47pm |
re: #100 reine.de.tout
Big in the news case here awhile back - a convicted rapist was released based on DNA - and the DNA led to the arrest and conviction of the real rapist, who happend to be the brother of the wrongly convicted man.
all good. I say take DNA at birth and let's establish parenthood... now that might just bring down health care costs.
| 106 |
A Man for all Seasons Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:01:54pm |
re: #78 brookly red
DNA sampling on arrest? It will come Obama or the next guy... it will come.
I have no issues with DNA tests if you are arrested for a crime..
First.. We may be looking for you for other crimes including rape
Second..If you never commit another crime you need not worry about being accused because you will be excluded from DNA.
Third: I don't care if they take DNA from every person in the USA.. There is no right in the Constitution to exclude you from crimes against Citizens....
DNA is modern science and it doesn't give you the right to commit crimes anonymously in the United States..
You get arrested..Sorry about your luck and in this case Fuck your privacy..
/But that's just me...
| 107 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:02:47pm |
re: #78 brookly red
DNA sampling on arrest? It will come Obama or the next guy... it will come.
Probably. The fear mongering is what I'm talking about. Wired was also shilling Breitbart and O'Keefe's latest bogus video a few days ago too.
| 108 |
Obdicut Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:03:17pm |
re: #106 HoosierHoops
DNA, properly handed, isn't an invasion of privacy any more than a photograph is.
It just needs to be carefully handled, as it is effectively medical information.
| 109 |
brookly red Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:03:23pm |
re: #107 Killgore Trout
Probably. The fear mongering is what I'm talking about. Wired was also shilling Breitbart and O'Keefe's latest bogus video a few days ago too.
I ain't afraid... are you afraid?
| 110 |
JeffM70 Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:03:45pm |
To borrow Glenn's argument, I just read the Constitution and I didn't see where it said we have the right to fish.
| 111 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:04:01pm |
re: #98 Gus 802
I see the fishing ban conspiracy has made it to the Wingnut-Media-Complex&tade; Now that Rush and Glenn are spreading this conspiracy "it must be true!" This conspiracy was first initiated by EPSN blogger Robert Montgomery and isn't even based on hearsay but paranoid assumption about groups associated with the White House panel.
That's typical. Some people assume the worst when the president is of the other party and they magnify rumors all out of proportion. Its disgusting, and its worst now than I've ever seen it.
| 112 |
The Sanity Inspector Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:04:14pm |
re: #91 brookly red
I have no problem with it... how many guys gotta do twenty before the DNA cleared them?
Which segues into a plug for The Innocence Project. No tough-on-crime type should overlook their good work.
| 113 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:04:23pm |
re: #104 goddamnedfrank
Your students probably weren't trying to buy twenty thousand rounds of .223 at a time. Hoarders aren't looking to pay the over the counter per box price, they want a volume discount.
Yep, it's not the traditional hunting and handgun calibers that ran out: it was 5.56 NATO, 7.62 NATO, and 7.62X39 Commie stuff that was - and is - in short supply, although a lot of it is because those calibres are being bought up at huge rates to meet military need.
| 114 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:04:34pm |
| 115 |
Gus Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:04:47pm |
Speaking of "the idiot" I mean Beck. Here's a good one...
Evangelical leader takes on Beck for assailing social justice churches
Sign says: SORRY MR BECK JESUS PREACHED SOCIAL JUSTICE
(CNN) -- An evangelical leader is calling for a boycott of Glenn Beck's television show and challenging the Fox News personality to a public debate after Beck vilified churches that preach economic and social justice.
The Rev. Jim Wallis, president of Sojourners, a network of progressive Christians, says Beck perverted Jesus' message when he urged Christians last week to leave churches that preach social and economic justice.
Wallis says Beck compared those churches to Communists and Nazis.,,
| 116 |
brookly red Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:05:04pm |
re: #112 The Sanity Inspector
Which segues into a plug for The Innocence Project. No tough-on-crime type should overlook their good work.
DNA is DNA, let's use it where we can.
| 117 |
cliffster Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:05:12pm |
Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something.
-- Mitch
| 118 |
Cato the Elder Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:05:44pm |
re: #108 Obdicut
DNA, properly handed, isn't an invasion of privacy any more than a photograph is.
It just needs to be carefully handled, as it is effectively medical information.
And I trust those in power to handle it correctly about as much as the ACLU to distinguish between actual threats to the Establishment Clause and widdle cwosses on county seals...
| 119 |
brookly red Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:06:04pm |
re: #113 Guanxi88
Yep, it's not the traditional hunting and handgun calibers that ran out: it was 5.56 NATO, 7.62 NATO, and 7.62X39 Commie stuff that was - and is - in short supply, although a lot of it is because those calibres are being bought up at huge rates to meet military need.
and drug lord need too.
| 120 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:06:07pm |
re: #65 reine.de.tout
And here I was thinking the next outrage would be this story:
senoJ xelA has been railing about that for years.
| 121 |
Boondock St. Bender Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:06:37pm |
#114 slumbering b.(sorry my reply button doesn't work)
Pretty much the same school of thought i would imagine!
| 122 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:07:33pm |
re: #119 brookly red
and drug lord need too.
Eh, they get what they need from their national armories, not from Wal-Mart or Red's/
| 123 |
Idle Drifter Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:08:01pm |
re: #83 SanFranciscoZionist
I think this must have been a regional phenomenon. Everyone here was wailing last winter about how they couldn't get ammo, and the price was going up, and etc., and I asked some of my students who shoot if they were having trouble. They looked baffled and said that they bought their ammo from the sporting-goods place on San Pablo Avenue.
I noticed guns and ammo sold out in the Sportsman Warehouse in Thornton, CO. And a buddy of mine living in Grand Junction said his Dad's shop had a 2 week back order. The political and ideological highs and lows drive guns and ammo sales. Any politician spouting or thought to be spouting gun control are real market drivers. Heck the dad named President Obama as salesman of the year as a joke.
| 124 |
brookly red Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:08:46pm |
re: #122 Guanxi88
Eh, they get what they need from their national armories, not from Wal-Mart or Red's/
no actually they do have proxy buyers from th US... it is a problem.
| 125 |
Boondock St. Bender Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:08:54pm |
sekrit hoomin/aleein hi-brids!!!!111!!
| 126 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:09:10pm |
re: #72 Cato the Elder
The idiot who writes the formerly funny "Day By Day" cartoons...
Wait, those were supposed to be funny? Really?
| 127 |
Boondock St. Bender Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:10:23pm |
#126 well preachy funny...ummm somthing like that....
| 128 |
Unions = Innovation slash slash Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:10:59pm |
Obama can have my fishing pole when he pries it from my cold dead fingers~!!!
//
Why don't you take just one Baptist fishing?
He'll drink all your beer!
| 129 |
Gus Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:11:09pm |
re: #120 Slumbering Behemoth
senoJ xelA has been railing about that for years.
Does it involve a flying nano-robot horse fly that harvest the DNA from the sheeple and also plants a GPS homing device for future targeting by Lockheed Martin© Hellfire II™ missiles?
/
| 130 |
Obdicut Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:11:14pm |
re: #118 Cato the Elder
You really sound kind of silly when you compound your arguments like that.
"Those in power" does sound scurry though.
| 131 |
brookly red Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:11:14pm |
re: #124 brookly red
no actually they do have proxy buyers from th US... it is a problem.
if the subject in the e-mail is bushmaster, you don't want to respond.
| 132 |
cliffster Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:11:24pm |
One last Mitch joke, thread-appropriate..
You know when they have a fishing show on TV? They catch the fish and then let it go. They don't want to eat the fish, they just want to make it late for something.
| 133 |
SixDegrees Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:11:27pm |
re: #89 Idle Drifter
The Rock Bass in the Detroit River have been eating the Goby Darters so their numbers are not in check but at least dented. What'll eat Asian Carp in the Great Lakes or at least the thousands of eggs they produce?
Unknown. I'm sure their eggs are tasty to many critters, but they are prolific breeders. And they tend to eat pretty much anything themselves, wiping out the competition along the way.
| 134 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:11:32pm |
re: #110 JeffM70
To borrow Glenn's argument, I just read the Constitution and I didn't see where it said we have the right to fish.
Indeed. Coastal waters have always been federal property.
| 135 |
Slap Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:11:57pm |
Now, if the rumor was to ban BROADCASTS of fishing events, I'm good with that. Being a football nut, I'm more than a bit confused by fishing watchers, bowling watchers, and golf watchers. I mean, can't these people get their own sleep aids? Why does broadcast television accommodate these types? Why should the rest of us be responsible for their inability to sleep?????
///////////////////
And, a tune!
It just bears repeating!
| 136 |
Guanxi88 Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:12:00pm |
re: #124 brookly red
no actually they do have proxy buyers from th US... it is a problem.
Ya know, there's something to that, but the vast bulk of the firepower being brought to bear, at least in mexico, ain't coming from Texas. Now, "traced weapons" are, but that's because American weapons and weapons imported or sold here, gotta have serial #'s, so, yeah, most traceable weapons are from america, 'cause most traceable weapons are sold here.
| 137 |
cliffster Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:12:46pm |
re: #130 Obdicut
You really sound kind of silly when you compound your arguments like that.
"Those in power" does sound scurry though.
keep the government out of my double helices
| 138 |
Gus Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:12:56pm |
re: #134 Dark_Falcon
Indeed. Coastal waters have always been federal property.
Facts?! Fact?! We don't need no steenkin' facts!
Obama's going to ban recreational fishing!!!!
/
| 139 |
Unions = Innovation slash slash Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:13:42pm |
re: #138 Gus 802
Facts?! Fact?! We don't need no steenkin' facts!
Obama's going to ban recreational fishing!!!
/
When they outlaw fishing, only outlaws will fish!!!!!!
//
| 140 |
Sol Berdinowitz Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:13:42pm |
re: #110 JeffM70
To borrow Glenn's argument, I just read the Constitution and I didn't see where it said we have the right to fish.
Ahem, the Pursuit of happiness. Ask any red-blooded white male American what he considers "happiness", and it will most certainly involve fishing...
/
| 141 |
middy Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:13:45pm |
re: #132 cliffster
One last Mitch joke, thread-appropriate..
You know when they have a fishing show on TV? They catch the fish and then let it go. They don't want to eat the fish, they just want to make it late for something.
-Where were you?
-I got caught!
-Bullshit! Let me see the inside of your lip.
| 142 |
brookly red Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:13:52pm |
re: #136 Guanxi88
Ya know, there's something to that, but the vast bulk of the firepower being brought to bear, at least in mexico, ain't coming from Texas. Now, "traced weapons" are, but that's because American weapons and weapons imported or sold here, gotta have serial #'s, so, yeah, most traceable weapons are from america, 'cause most traceable weapons are sold here.
sure... but we sent like a gazillion m-16s to like everywhere some may just come back... remember the stingers?
| 143 |
Idle Drifter Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:13:55pm |
re: #133 SixDegrees
Unknown. I'm sure their eggs are tasty to many critters, but they are prolific breeders. And they tend to eat pretty much anything themselves, wiping out the competition along the way.
I've heard of efforts of select poisoning.
| 144 |
garhighway Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:13:56pm |
re: #118 Cato the Elder
And I trust those in power to handle it correctly about as much as the ACLU to distinguish between actual threats to the Establishment Clause and widdle cwosses on county seals...
I would think it is pretty simple. You have to pass a law (I know: that's government action, which many here can't stomach) that says how the DNA data can and cannot be used, who can access it, etc...
Like we do with fingerprints, for example. I haven't heard of any big problems with inappropriate storage of or access to fingerprints.
| 146 |
garhighway Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:15:14pm |
The Onion's take on recreational fishing...
[Link: www.theonion.com...]
| 147 |
Unions = Innovation slash slash Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:15:42pm |
I've always thought one of the most boring jobs ever is editing the boring parts out of fishing shows!!!
| 148 |
Shiplord Kirel Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:15:53pm |
Here is a really outrageous outrage. Freepers are incensed that US troops will be taking part in the Victory Day parade in Moscow on May 9th. They seem to feel it is an outrage for the US to help celebrate a victory by "Stalin's Red army" even though the victory was over Nazi Germany and our forces were more than a little involved in the same cause.
U.S., British, French troops to take part in Moscow parade
For the first time ever a United Stated President is sending U.S. Soldiers to march in a Parade in Red Square May 9th celebrating Communist Joseph Stalin and his Red Army's victory in reaching Berlin 65 years ago. I don't like this idea one bit even though Russia is not Communist anymore because of Ronald Reagans tough stance against the USSR which led to their downfall. Also Stalins image will be plastered all over Moscow for the Victory Celebrations for our troops to march by.
Amazing isn’t it? Helping to celebrate a murderous regime? Why doesn’t the administration just pull down the American flag and fly the hammer and sickle in front of the White House?
I'll bet these clods are really pissed over the 14 billion dollars in lend-lease aid we provided to the Soviets during the war, back when 14 billion was real money.
| 149 |
Ojoe Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:16:23pm |
re: #140 ralphieboy
Or hunting, or gold panning, and certainly using a white gas coleman stove and lantern, ah the good times.
| 150 |
SixDegrees Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:16:55pm |
re: #143 Idle Drifter
I've heard of efforts of select poisoning.
Yeah. I don't think there's any poison that only works on Asian Carp, though.
However, I'm not at all averse to dumping enough poison into the Illinois River to wipe out them and most other things in order to drive them back from the lake for a few more years, until some better solution can be found. Harsh, but effective.
Later, we can withdraw and nuke 'em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
| 151 |
Cato the Elder Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:17:19pm |
re: #130 Obdicut
"Those in power" does sound scurry though.
I guess to you they're only scary if you disagree with them.
I disagree with everyone sooner or later.
Therefore, "those in power" always scare me.
Or they're scared of me.
Whatever.
| 152 |
brookly red Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:17:35pm |
re: #148 Shiplord Kirel
Here is a really outrageous outrage. Freepers are incensed that US troops will be taking part in the Victory Day parade in Moscow on May 9th. They seem to feel it is an outrage for the US to help celebrate a victory by "Stalin's Red army" even though the victory was over Nazi Germany and our forces were more than a little involved in the same cause.
U.S., British, French troops to take part in Moscow paradeI'll bet these clods are really pissed over the 14 billion dollars in lend-lease aid we provided to the Soviets during the war, back when 14 billion was real money.
14 billion is still real money... don't go all Pelosie on us.
| 153 |
Ojoe Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:17:40pm |
re: #148 Shiplord Kirel
We were comrades then, and so why not now?
| 154 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:17:43pm |
re: #129 Gus 802
Actually, his rant was about cops doing oral swabs for DNA at DUI checkpoints. I heard this particular rant at least four years ago.
| 155 |
Obdicut Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:18:00pm |
| 156 |
The Sanity Inspector Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:18:07pm |
re: #126 Slumbering Behemoth
Wait, those were supposed to be funny? Really?
I enjoyed them, back when. But that 'toon yesterday was like a slug in the gut.
Great wits are sure to madness near allied, and thin partitions do their bounds divide.
--John Dryden
| 157 |
brookly red Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:18:09pm |
| 158 |
Gus Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:18:29pm |
Obama Admin Jumps to Squelch Rumors of U.S. Fishing Ban
The Obama administration is trying to dash rumors that it planned to ban recreational fishing in marine waters and the Great Lakes in the wake of a series of Internet posts warning that such a prohibition was imminent.
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration chief Jane Lubchenco told a House panel yesterday that her agency had no plans to halt fishing. And National Marine Fisheries Service chief Eric Schwaab released a statement last night saying NOAA "is committed to adopting policies that will ensure that current and future generations have the opportunity to enjoy the great tradition of recreational fishing."
The rumors apparently started with an online column Tuesday on ESPN's outdoors Web site, which said the administration's new oceans policy could prohibit fishing in oceans, Great Lakes and inland waters. Robert Montgomery's column questioned whether environmental groups have had undue influence on the plan.
The news blog Drudge Report reposted the column, and dozens of right-wing bloggers wrote yesterday that President Obama would ban recreational fishing.
For instance, Gateway Pundit blogger Jim Hoft wrote: "Obama's Latest Assault on Freedom -- New regulations Will Ban Sport Fishing." He quoted from the ESPN column, adding, "Barack Obama has a message for America's 60,000,000 anglers -- We don't need you."
SNIP
Ah yes. The usual Pantload™ suspect. Nothing like Drudge to spread these types of rumors given that he's a fan of Alex Jones.
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration chief Jane Lubchenco told a House panel yesterday that her agency had no plans to halt fishing.
| 159 |
nines09 Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:18:40pm |
The heat goes up on sponsers at Glenn's FunHouse. Trubba Brewin'
| 160 |
RogueOne Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:18:41pm |
Taking someones DNA based strictly on an arrest is a horrific idea. I might, MIGHT, be convinced it's not a violation of someones civil rights if they are convicted but I'm more than a little credulous. BTW, If one person says "if you have nothing to hide..." my head is going to explode.
| 161 |
Gus Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:19:20pm |
| 162 |
Ojoe Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:19:23pm |
| 163 |
brookly red Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:19:32pm |
re: #160 RogueOne
Taking someones DNA based strictly on an arrest is a horrific idea. I might, MIGHT, be convinced it's not a violation of someones civil rights if they are convicted but I'm more than a little credulous. BTW, If one person says "if you have nothing to hide..." my head is going to explode.
DNA, finger print? what ever.
| 164 |
Velvet Elvis Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:19:40pm |
re: #150 SixDegrees
Yeah. I don't think there's any poison that only works on Asian Carp, though.
Asian Carp:Fish::Kudzu:Plant
| 165 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:19:57pm |
re: #151 Cato the Elder
I guess to you they're only scary if you disagree with them.
I disagree with everyone sooner or later.
Therefore, "those in power" always scare me.
Or they're scared of me.
Whatever.
You really have a problem with the government having a sample of each citizens DNA on record? What could be wrong with that?
| 166 |
Idle Drifter Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:20:13pm |
re: #139 rwdflynavy
When they outlaw fishing, only outlaws will fish!!!
//
New Zealand is the most dangerous fish thrower.
| 167 |
cliffster Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:20:33pm |
re: #160 RogueOne
Taking someones DNA based strictly on an arrest is a horrific idea. I might, MIGHT, be convinced it's not a violation of someones civil rights if they are convicted but I'm more than a little credulous. BTW, If one person says "if you have nothing to hide..." my head is going to explode.
Heh. If you have nothing to hide. You can make mincemeat of the bill of rights with that argument.
| 168 |
RogueOne Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:20:37pm |
re: #163 brookly red
DNA, finger print? what ever.
Unless you can prove it has been tossed out after not being convicted, which is naive, then no, no, no.
| 169 |
brookly red Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:21:04pm |
re: #162 Ojoe
At least the common people, who have no money, can be comrades.
BBL
until you have a can of beans and all I have to eat is a rifle, we are just fine.
| 170 |
Stanghazi Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:21:18pm |
re: #158 Gus 802
I hate that this has to be done. Hopefully she was smirking, just to give the wingers pause.
| 171 |
Cato the Elder Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:21:28pm |
re: #135 Slap
Now, if the rumor was to ban BROADCASTS of fishing events, I'm good with that. Being a football nut, I'm more than a bit confused by fishing watchers, bowling watchers, and golf watchers. I mean, can't these people get their own sleep aids? Why does broadcast television accommodate these types? Why should the rest of us be responsible for their inability to sleep???
///
And, a tune!It just bears repeating!
In high-stress towns like Baltimore, they have the "grass growing" and "paint drying" channels for people with insomnia. To wake them up they have the "your mother having sex with a Shetland pony" channel.
So it goes.
| 172 |
garhighway Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:21:44pm |
re: #160 RogueOne
Taking someones DNA based strictly on an arrest is a horrific idea. I might, MIGHT, be convinced it's not a violation of someones civil rights if they are convicted but I'm more than a little credulous. BTW, If one person says "if you have nothing to hide..." my head is going to explode.
Different from fingerprints how?
| 173 |
brookly red Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:21:55pm |
re: #168 RogueOne
Unless you can prove it has been tossed out after not being convicted, which is naive, then no, no, no.
O.J. is all I got to say.
| 174 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:21:59pm |
re: #160 RogueOne
Taking someones DNA based strictly on an arrest is a horrific idea. I might, MIGHT, be convinced it's not a violation of someones civil rights if they are convicted but I'm more than a little credulous. BTW, If one person says "if you have nothing to hide..." my head is going to explode.
DNA, fingerprint, photograph... what's the difference? You have a civil right to be anonymous?
| 176 |
cliffster Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:22:36pm |
| 177 |
A Man for all Seasons Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:22:54pm |
re: #160 RogueOne
Taking someones DNA based strictly on an arrest is a horrific idea. I might, MIGHT, be convinced it's not a violation of someones civil rights if they are convicted but I'm more than a little credulous. BTW, If one person says "if you have nothing to hide..." my head is going to explode.
If you get arrested they take your picture and finger prints...Why not DNA?
What makes DNA a Violation of your rights?
| 178 |
Gus Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:22:59pm |
re: #170 Stanley Sea
I hate that this has to be done. Hopefully she was smirking, just to give the wingers pause.
They're make these statement trying to halt these rumors and then the wingnuts leaders like Beck, and Limbaugh will claim victory. It's a pattern.
| 179 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:23:16pm |
re: #160 RogueOne
Taking someones DNA based strictly on an arrest is a horrific idea. I might, MIGHT, be convinced it's not a violation of someones civil rights if they are convicted but I'm more than a little credulous. BTW, If one person says "if you have nothing to hide..." my head is going to explode.
I've got nothing to hide.
Sorry, I really do NOT want your head to explode.
I think there are certain arrests where it might be reasonable to take DNA - but maybe not all, for instance, for something like DWI, it would make no sense to take DNA.
| 181 |
brookly red Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:24:54pm |
| 182 |
RogueOne Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:25:38pm |
re: #174 Walter L. Newton
DNA, fingerprint, photograph... what's the difference? You have a civil right to be anonymous?
Yes. If there is a right to privacy that encompasses a womans right to an abortion it most certainly covers your biological markers. Why would it ever be appropriate for the government to have a genetic database of an innocent population?
Where in the world does all this faith that government, any government, loves and respects us and only wants whats best for us?
| 183 |
Idle Drifter Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:25:53pm |
re: #150 SixDegrees
Yeah. I don't think there's any poison that only works on Asian Carp, though.
However, I'm not at all averse to dumping enough poison into the Illinois River to wipe out them and most other things in order to drive them back from the lake for a few more years, until some better solution can be found. Harsh, but effective.
Later, we can withdraw and nuke 'em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
Well they are attracted to motors on the river. Figure out the sound line up barges with low decks, blast the sound, and scoop the bastards up as they jump into the barges and shotgun the others flying through the air. Grind them up into fish meal and fish oil for sale. Anything seems possible.
| 184 |
RogueOne Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:26:46pm |
re: #182 RogueOne
Where in the world does all this faith come from that government, any government, loves and respects us and only wants whats best for us?
PIMF
| 185 |
RogueOne Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:27:44pm |
re: #177 HoosierHoops
If you get arrested they take your picture and finger prints...Why not DNA?
What makes DNA a Violation of your rights?
There is a lot more information that can be obtained from a persons DNA over a mere fingerprint.
| 186 |
Vicious Babushka Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:28:07pm |
re: #66 SanFranciscoZionist
Someone who is expecting a socialist takeover of the country, and expects this with such perfect faith that the evidence of their eyes and all common sense means nothing.
Look at all the people who were stockpiling ammunition because Obama was 'going to take it away'.
This story was a Purim joke, but YNet reported it as if it was real (and of course the usual throng of idiots posting in the talkbacks)
| 187 |
RogueOne Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:28:48pm |
BTW, just for the record the government already has a copy of both my DNA and fingerprints but I willingly signed that right away.
| 188 |
Obdicut Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:29:32pm |
re: #185 RogueOne
However, if only certain targeted bits are taken, then it really is no more informative than a fingerprint.
It just needs proper oversight. It can potentially be more respectful of privacy than the current investigations that involve so much talking to friends, family, and co-workers.
| 189 |
garhighway Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:29:58pm |
I would think it is pretty simple. You have to pass a law (I know: that's government action, which many here can't stomach) that says how the DNA data can and cannot be used, who can access it, etc...Like we do with fingerprints, for example. I haven't heard of any big problems with inappropriate storage of or access to fingerprints.
| 191 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:30:19pm |
re: #182 RogueOne
Yes. If there is a right to privacy that encompasses a womans right to an abortion it most certainly covers your biological markers. Why would it ever be appropriate for the government to have a genetic database of an innocent population?
Where in the world does all this faith that government, any government, loves and respects us and only wants whats best for us?
What does privacy rights and abortion have to do with taking a DNA sample if you are arrested for a possible crime?
What does privacy rights and abortion have to do with taking fingerprints sample if you are arrested for a possible crime?
What does privacy rights and abortion have to do with taking a picture of you and recording personal information about you if you are arrested for a possible crime?
Are you suggesting that we should not take fingerprints, pictures and collect personal information from a person if they are arrested?
| 192 |
albusteve Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:30:22pm |
re: #182 RogueOne
Yes. If there is a right to privacy that encompasses a womans right to an abortion it most certainly covers your biological markers. Why would it ever be appropriate for the government to have a genetic database of an innocent population?
Where in the world does all this faith that government, any government, loves and respects us and only wants whats best for us?
hypnosis....subliminal brainwashing
| 193 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:30:39pm |
re: #185 RogueOne
There is a lot more information that can be obtained from a persons DNA over a mere fingerprint.
Like?
| 194 |
Gus Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:30:46pm |
| 195 |
Shiplord Kirel Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:31:26pm |
re: #174 Walter L. Newton
DNA, fingerprint, photograph... what's the difference? You have a civil right to be anonymous?
If I have to give a DNA sample after, say, a traffic ticket, the ACORN/Obammunist neighborhood thought-crime collective would have no trouble leaning that I am related to a notorious clan of redneck ignorami (which I am, related that is.) and I would be packed off to mandatory rehab faster than you could say "black helicopter."
Or maybe not. I could sent it to Beck though.
| 196 |
A Man for all Seasons Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:31:32pm |
re: #185 RogueOne
There is a lot more information that can be obtained from a persons DNA over a mere fingerprint.
That's fantastic! You are protected from false claims of crimes if innocent and you are busted if that isn't the case..
It's fair..It's modern and it is the wave of the future...
/unless you are OJ..Then it really doesn't matter
| 197 |
brookly red Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:31:45pm |
re: #187 RogueOne
BTW, just for the record the government already has a copy of both my DNA and fingerprints but I willingly signed that right away.
well sorry for and head detonations... you got nothing to hide :)
| 198 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:32:11pm |
| 199 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:32:27pm |
OT: For the nerds:
| 200 |
Gus Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:33:10pm |
re: #198 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
OKAY! WOO HOO!
Now I've gotta go use my googler.
McLeroy... That's that infamous Texas Board of Education "leader." You know: creationist, Dentist, Intelligent Design, etc.
| 201 |
RogueOne Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:33:14pm |
re: #188 Obdicut
Like I said, that's an awful lot of faith you have in elected officials to do the "proper oversight". Wasn't there a big story last year about a state police agency that was keeping records they were legally required to destroy within a short time frame? Not only do I not trust government officials to do the right thing, I'm certain they aren't able to do it based on nothing more than shear negligence.
I have to run for the night folks, one last "Down With The Man!"
| 202 |
The Sanity Inspector Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:33:32pm |
re: #160 RogueOne
Taking someones DNA based strictly on an arrest is a horrific idea. I might, MIGHT, be convinced it's not a violation of someones civil rights if they are convicted but I'm more than a little credulous. BTW, If one person says "if you have nothing to hide..." my head is going to explode.
The Government does not intend these things to happen, the Commission on whose report the Bill was founded did not intend these things to happen, but in legislation intention is nothing, and the letter of the law everything, and no government has the right, whether to flatter fanatics or in mere vagueness of mind, to forge an instrument of tyranny and say that it will never be used.
--W. B. Yeats
| 203 |
Escaped Hillbilly Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:34:00pm |
re: #65 reine.de.tout
I am listening to the interview now, it's on amw's websight if youre interested.
interview
The president congratulated John and AMW on reaching this milestone, and gave John his firm commitment that he'll do everything he can to ensure that Congress fully funds The Adam Walsh Act - so that all sex offenders can be tracked down and monitored.
They're talking about DNA testing for repeat sex offenders and people on parole. He's promising funding so cops won't get laid off and to preserve existing DNA samples as well as continue DNA testing programs already in effect. Where's the problem? Unless there's a longer interview soewhere I'm missing.
| 204 |
RogueOne Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:34:20pm |
re: #191 Walter L. Newton
An arrest and a conviction are two different things. If you're innocent the government has zero business keeping anything resulting from a false arrest.
| 205 |
garhighway Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:34:32pm |
re: #201 RogueOne
Like I said, that's an awful lot of faith you have in elected officials to do the "proper oversight". Wasn't there a big story last year about a state police agency that was keeping records they were legally required to destroy within a short time frame? Not only do I not trust government officials to do the right thing, I'm certain they aren't able to do it based on nothing more than shear negligence.
I have to run for the night folks, one last "Down With The Man!"
Has there been some sort of big problem with how fingerprints are stored?
| 206 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:34:50pm |
re: #200 Gus 802
My google-fu is strong. Thanks.
| 207 |
Cato the Elder Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:36:08pm |
re: #144 garhighway
Like we do with fingerprints, for example. I haven't heard of any big problems with inappropriate storage of or access to fingerprints.
See below. You're free to allow your fingerprints and DNA to be stored just in case you commit a crime in the future, though. I impolitely decline.
re: #165 Walter L. Newton
You really have a problem with the government having a sample of each citizens DNA on record? What could be wrong with that?
I know you get it, Walter, but for those who don't:
Because it's a million times easier to plant your real DNA at a crime scene and frame you than to do it with fake fingerprints.
And if you're framed and manage to escape anyway, they'll soon be able to clone your ass and put your Doppelgänger in the clink. Now, just imagine how much that would suck.
| 208 |
brookly red Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:36:39pm |
re: #204 RogueOne
An arrest and a conviction are two different things. If you're innocent the government has zero business keeping anything resulting from a false arrest.
odds are more likely it could clear you later... I say it is a risk worth taking.
| 209 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:36:41pm |
re: #205 garhighway
On the DNA? They can have mine.
But... I do not want to give power to a government that I like... They may not always be in power.
But, hell... if they get my DNA they'll use it to make little pie eatin' babies.
| 210 |
Gus Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:37:17pm |
re: #203 Escaped Hillbilly
I am listening to the interview now, it's on amw's websight if youre interested.
interview
They're talking about DNA testing for repeat sex offenders and people on parole. He's promising funding so cops won't get laid off and to preserve existing DNA samples as well as continue DNA testing programs already in effect. Where's the problem? Unless there's a longer interview soewhere I'm missing.
Thanks for the clarification. I can see we have another Obama-Urban-Legend in the making though.
| 211 |
simoom Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:37:37pm |
Beck just plugged Skousen's 5,000 Year Leap, again, on his 9/12 Project 1-year anniversary show.
| 212 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:38:47pm |
re: #104 goddamnedfrank
Your students probably weren't trying to buy twenty thousand rounds of .223 at a time. Hoarders aren't looking to pay the over the counter per box price, they want a volume discount.
Yeah. We're talking about teenage boys here. Non-paranoid teenage boys.
| 213 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:38:52pm |
re: #203 Escaped Hillbilly
I am listening to the interview now, it's on amw's websight if youre interested.
interview
They're talking about DNA testing for repeat sex offenders and people on parole. He's promising funding so cops won't get laid off and to preserve existing DNA samples as well as continue DNA testing programs already in effect. Where's the problem? Unless there's a longer interview soewhere I'm missing.
I don't have a problem with it.
Not one bit.
In fact, the particular program you mention, I support wholeheartedly.
I simply posted earlier that I thought this was going to be the next outrage du jour. Which started a discussion.
| 214 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:39:04pm |
re: #207 Cato the Elder
Hear about the guy who cloned himself because he was so busy, but the clone turned out so filthy mouthed it got him into trouble wherever he allowed it to sub for him?
He pushed it off a cliff... thinking he wouldn't be prosecuted.
He was arrested though.
Charges?
Making an obscene clone fall.
| 215 |
goddamnedfrank Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:39:37pm |
re: #172 garhighway
Different from fingerprints how?
There's no theoretical way to use someone's fingerprint information to engineer a virus designed specifically to attack that person. DNA is different.
| 216 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:39:41pm |
re: #115 Gus 802
Speaking of "the idiot" I mean Beck. Here's a good one...
Evangelical leader takes on Beck for assailing social justice churches
Sign says: SORRY MR BECK JESUS PREACHED SOCIAL JUSTICE
Jim Wallis has his moments.
| 217 |
SixDegrees Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:40:34pm |
re: #172 garhighway
Different from fingerprints how?
One difference: your fingerprints don't contain potentially patentable and profitable elements that someone with access to a fingerprint database could mine and develop into a sellable product without your knowledge.
Another: fingerprints don't contain information on genetic markers for disease that could be used by any number of third parties for various unpleasant purposes, such as denying employment or insurance.
| 218 |
webevintage Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:40:42pm |
re: #14 Guanxi88
No, this obviously a way to ensure that those who do not take the Mark of the One are not able to feed themselves from the rivers and streams, nor escape by boat.
Well thank God that for $149 real Americans will be able to plant a Crisis Garden to feed their families.
| 219 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:41:40pm |
re: #203 Escaped Hillbilly
I am listening to the interview now, it's on amw's websight if youre interested.
interview
They're talking about DNA testing for repeat sex offenders and people on parole. He's promising funding so cops won't get laid off and to preserve existing DNA samples as well as continue DNA testing programs already in effect. Where's the problem? Unless there's a longer interview soewhere I'm missing.
Reference my re: #213 reine.de.tout
I have one caveat:
There are 18-year-old boys caught having sex with their 16-year-old girlfriends, who live the rest of their lives with the 'sex offender' label.
There are sex offenders, and then there are those labelled sex offenders who, IMO, are hormonal teenagers, not sex offenders.
| 220 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:42:14pm |
re: #148 Shiplord Kirel
Here is a really outrageous outrage. Freepers are incensed that US troops will be taking part in the Victory Day parade in Moscow on May 9th. They seem to feel it is an outrage for the US to help celebrate a victory by "Stalin's Red army" even though the victory was over Nazi Germany and our forces were more than a little involved in the same cause.
U.S., British, French troops to take part in Moscow parade
I'll bet these clods are really pissed over the 14 billion dollars in lend-lease aid we provided to the Soviets during the war, back when 14 billion was real money.
Freepers are amazingly stupid.
| 221 |
brookly red Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:42:40pm |
re: #216 SanFranciscoZionist
Jim Wallis has his moments.
Social justice is good. Social justice is also open to interpretation... one man's justice is another man's shakedown.
| 222 |
BruceKelly Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:43:09pm |
re: #28 darthstar
There's nothing wrong with sitting by a river like an idiot. Just bring beer, maybe some good herb, and enjoy the day. Fishing pole optional.
I have fished without bait. Good times.
| 223 |
Gus Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:44:36pm |
re: #219 reine.de.tout
Reference my re: #213 reine.de.tout
I have one caveat:
There are 18-year-old boys caught having sex with their 16-year-old girlfriends, who live the rest of their lives with the 'sex offender' label.There are sex offenders, and then there are those labelled sex offenders who, IMO, are hormonal teenagers, not sex offenders.
Then they would have to more specifically define sex offender to account for the variances. If I'm not mistaken people can be categorized as a sex offender for something like indecent exposure as a result of "urinating in public."
| 224 |
Escaped Hillbilly Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:44:53pm |
re: #213 reine.de.tout
I agree. That's how these things work. Just think how the confusion could effect support for this worthwhile goal. I mean really, aren't most conservatives fans of Mr. Walsh and his work? The ones I know are. But not too many people feel comfortable giving that much info to the govt. no matter how well intentioned.
| 225 |
garhighway Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:45:21pm |
re: #207 Cato the Elder
I know you get it, Walter, but for those who don't:
Because it's a million times easier to plant your real DNA at a crime scene and frame you than to do it with fake fingerprints.
And if you're framed and manage to escape anyway, they'll soon be able to clone your ass and put your Doppelgänger in the clink. Now, just imagine how much that would suck.
Do they remove your fingerprints from the database if you are acquitted? I don't think so. So as it stands now, if you are arrested (not just given a ticket) you get fingerprinted, and those prints stay on file pretty much forever. And there have been how many cases of this process being abused? Versus how many cases where having prints on file has helped solve a crime? So that's the status quo, and I think it is one that works well, as far as it goes.
I assume that the same kinds of procedural and access safeguards can work around DNA. Does that create the risk that a criminal genius could use your DNA to frame you? I guess. I would note that there are damn few criminal geniuses in the world. My experience with that field (I did some criminal defense work and some prosecuting) is that criminals become criminals not because they are too smart for civilized society, but because they are too stupid or lazy. So while the "criminal genius" is a great construct for a CSI or Law and Order episode, they seem to be pretty damn rare in real life.
We make lots of trades between individual rights and group rights. Traffic lights. Zoning laws. The Clean Water Act. And fingerprinting. And while I like my privacy as much as the next guy, I would trade the right to keep my DNA secret for the hundreds or thousands of serious crimes that would be solved (and the additional hundreds or thousands of additional crimes that would therefore be prevented) by having DNA captured of anyone who would have previously just been fingerprinted. That is a good trade.
| 226 |
SixDegrees Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:45:38pm |
re: #223 Gus 802
Then they would have to more specifically define sex offender to account for the variances. If I'm not mistaken people can be categorized as a sex offender for something like indecent exposure as a result of "urinating in public."
That guy who got jailed for having sex with his picnic table will probably have to stay away from picnic areas for the rest of his life now.
| 227 |
garhighway Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:46:24pm |
re: #217 SixDegrees
One difference: your fingerprints don't contain potentially patentable and profitable elements that someone with access to a fingerprint database could mine and develop into a sellable product without your knowledge.
Another: fingerprints don't contain information on genetic markers for disease that could be used by any number of third parties for various unpleasant purposes, such as denying employment or insurance.
Agreed.
Procedural safeguards are called for, just like with fingerprints.
| 228 |
cliffster Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:46:42pm |
re: #219 reine.de.tout
Peeing can get you on the list too - that's silly. Stop on the side of the highway to pee, cop drives by, and your neighbors huddle their kids away from you for the rest of your life.
| 229 |
Gus Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:47:08pm |
re: #226 SixDegrees
That guy who got jailed for having sex with his picnic table will probably have to stay away from picnic areas for the rest of his life now.
Oh yeah I remember hearing about that. Must be a new paraphilia: Picnic-table-fetish.
| 230 |
goddamnedfrank Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:48:29pm |
If knowledge of one's DNA wasn't at least a plausible theoretical threat, then why does the Secret Service take measures to guard Obama's?:
The President-elect will also have to get used to handing his glass to a Secret Service agent every time he has a drink outside the White House. The agent carries a small bag in which to pop the glass and later he destroys it.
The idea is to ensure that no unauthorised person has access to the Presidential DNA, but it is not clear how an enemy would use it.
| 231 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:49:22pm |
re: #223 Gus 802
Then they would have to more specifically define sex offender to account for the variances. If I'm not mistaken people can be categorized as a sex offender for something like indecent exposure as a result of "urinating in public."
I agree about refining that definition.
There's a whole list of folks in our neighborhood who are on the sex offender registry. There's only ONE convicted of raping a child - the rest appear to be young men convicted of having sex with young women.
| 232 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:50:10pm |
This story smelled like fish - and they ate it :)
| 233 |
doubter4444 Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:50:34pm |
re: #160 RogueOne
Taking someones DNA based strictly on an arrest is a horrific idea. I might, MIGHT, be convinced it's not a violation of someones civil rights if they are convicted but I'm more than a little credulous. BTW, If one person says "if you have nothing to hide..." my head is going to explode.
Why is a horrible idea?
You say so, but give no reason.
| 234 |
Escaped Hillbilly Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:50:46pm |
re: #230 goddamnedfrank
If knowledge of one's DNA wasn't at least a plausible theoretical threat, then why does the Secret Service take measures to guard Obama's?:
Duh...he's the president? I'm thinking intelligence agencies can do things ordinary citizens and cops can't or wouldn't and have the money and tech to pull it off.
| 235 |
brookly red Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:51:04pm |
re: #230 goddamnedfrank
If knowledge of one's DNA wasn't at least a plausible theoretical threat, then why does the Secret Service take measures to guard Obama's?:
/to keep us from proving he wasn't born on Sharia Prime... duh.
| 236 |
doubter4444 Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:51:48pm |
re: #191 Walter L. Newton
What does privacy rights and abortion have to do with taking a DNA sample if you are arrested for a possible crime?
What does privacy rights and abortion have to do with taking fingerprints sample if you are arrested for a possible crime?
What does privacy rights and abortion have to do with taking a picture of you and recording personal information about you if you are arrested for a possible crime?
Are you suggesting that we should not take fingerprints, pictures and collect personal information from a person if they are arrested?
Bingo.
| 237 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:52:24pm |
re: #231 reine.de.tout
I agree about refining that definition.
There's a whole list of folks in our neighborhood who are on the sex offender registry. There's only ONE convicted of raping a child - the rest appear to be young men convicted of having sex with young women.
I have also been told that there are people on the list for offenses, mostly homosexual activity of different sorts, that aren't offenses anymore. We need a narrow, clear definition of 'sex offenders who are the kind of sex offenders you're thinking of.'
| 238 |
Gus Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:53:12pm |
re: #231 reine.de.tout
I agree about refining that definition.
There's a whole list of folks in our neighborhood who are on the sex offender registry. There's only ONE convicted of raping a child - the rest appear to be young men convicted of having sex with young women.
Looks like in the interview he mentions the Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act. Maybe that would provide more clarification. There it states the registration requirements as:
Registration requirements
The required retroactive application of requirements will be defined by criteria relating to the nature of their sex offenses, not by severity or risk of re-offense, nor will it differentiate between violent or nonviolent offenses. For example, a Tier 3 sex offender who was released from imprisonment for such an offense in 1930 will still have to register for the remainder of his or her life. A Tier 2 sex offender convicted in 1980 is already more than 25 years out from the time of release. A Tier 1 will have to register for 10–15 years. In such cases, a jurisdiction may credit the sex offender with the time elapsed from his or her release.
| 239 |
brookly red Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:54:22pm |
re: #237 SanFranciscoZionist
I have also been told that there are people on the list for offenses, mostly homosexual activity of different sorts, that aren't offenses anymore. We need a narrow, clear definition of 'sex offenders who are the kind of sex offenders you're thinking of.'
I would use the term felony... you is either that bad or your not.
| 240 |
Escaped Hillbilly Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:54:35pm |
re: #237 SanFranciscoZionist
I have also been told that there are people on the list for offenses, mostly homosexual activity of different sorts, that aren't offenses anymore. We need a narrow, clear definition of 'sex offenders who are the kind of sex offenders you're thinking of.'
Which list? There are many. There is no one single national list. This a Federal Registry, but it only lists Federal offenders, which most aren't. Every state and many localities have their own lists. Some are too inclusive, some too exclusive, some to old...
| 241 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:54:43pm |
re: #237 SanFranciscoZionist
I have also been told that there are people on the list for offenses, mostly homosexual activity of different sorts, that aren't offenses anymore. We need a narrow, clear definition of 'sex offenders who are the kind of sex offenders you're thinking of.'
Yes, we do.
People at the civic assn meeting last night were all up at arms about all the "sex offenders" in the neighborhood. Almost all of them are NOT sex-offenders (rapists, child molesters are iwhat come to my mind for "sex offender). They're just cluttering up the list, keeping the information we genuinely need to be concerned about hidden within a bunch of nothing.
| 242 |
Escaped Hillbilly Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:57:35pm |
re: #238 Gus 802
I am not familiar with the Tiers, where should I look that up? Thanks for the additional info.
| 243 |
Gus Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:58:22pm |
re: #242 Escaped Hillbilly
I am not familiar with the Tiers, where should I look that up? Thanks for the additional info.
Just started Googling for Tier 3.
Start there maybe.
| 244 |
brookly red Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:59:01pm |
re: #231 reine.de.tout
I agree about refining that definition.
There's a whole list of folks in our neighborhood who are on the sex offender registry. There's only ONE convicted of raping a child - the rest appear to be young men convicted of having sex with young women.
sex offender is like thought criminal, did this person's actions break the law or not?
| 245 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:59:44pm |
re: #204 RogueOne
An arrest and a conviction are two different things. If you're innocent the government has zero business keeping anything resulting from a false arrest.
Concur.
| 246 |
Velvet Elvis Fri, Mar 12, 2010 2:59:51pm |
re: #230 goddamnedfrank
If knowledge of one's DNA wasn't at least a plausible theoretical threat, then why does the Secret Service take measures to guard Obama's?:
The same was the protocol for Bush for what it's worth.
| 247 |
Gus Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:00:20pm |
re: #242 Escaped Hillbilly
I am not familiar with the Tiers, where should I look that up? Thanks for the additional info.
OK, try this one...
[Link: www.cga.ct.gov...]
Some pretty serious stuff there for all tiers.
| 248 |
prairiefire Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:00:43pm |
re: #6 lawhawk
Good afternoon, Lizards.
My great uncle's unit in WW2 was Marine Aircraft Group 35, Pacific, 1944.
I would appreciate any input, thanks. My step-mom says she can't find much info. I appreciate it!
| 249 |
A Man for all Seasons Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:03:44pm |
re: #227 garhighway
Agreed.
Procedural safeguards are called for, just like with fingerprints.
I guess I just don't get it.. 20 years from now every new born Baby will have their DNA put into a Database.. It's a fact..And it's a good thing...You grow up to be a rapist at your own risks..It can prove you guilty and save your ass..
Rights?
OK when I got my top secret FBI clearance to work for the DOD I not only went through finger printing, Interviews and somebody talked to my teachers and Neighbors...Every record of me in America...A TS clearance at that time cost the Government 50,000 Dollars...
Every month for 20 years as a nuke my Blood was taken, My piss was collected..My TLD radioactive levels were reviewed and stored in a dbase.
I have print outs of my Government Health reports and someday when all us Nuke workers are long dead some computer program will be reviewing why we died and all the markers and release studies that will help our future generations.
Folks..This isn't 1762 anymore.. It's 2010 and DNA is here to stay..
| 250 |
Kruk Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:06:53pm |
Couple of usefull links on Brtain's DNA database that might apply here. Britain does indeed have a "DNA on Arrest" policy.
[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]
[Link: www.independent.co.uk...]
Potential problems in that database include the retention of DNA samples from people who've weren't convicted (about 1,000,000) and weren't charged (about 200,000). Also, Blacks are disproportionately represented (about 40% of all Black Men have their DNA on file), compared to about 9% of Whites. Records are retained from under 18s for several years even if never charged or convicted.
On the plus side, it has lead to the cracking of some major cases. A notorious serial rapist who had evaded police for almost 20 years was caught after a *relative* had DNA taken after a traffic offense. The police were able to use a "familial DNA" profile to lead them to the rapist. The profiles of people who weren't charged allowed police to crack about a 100 murders and a similar number of rapes.
Worth it or not? I'm still trying to decide myself.
| 251 |
Obdicut Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:08:29pm |
re: #250 Kruk
People who are against it should ask themselves if the current police methods of interrogation of friends and family is more or less intrusive into privacy.
| 252 |
Escaped Hillbilly Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:15:08pm |
re: #247 Gus 802
OK, try this one...
[Link: www.cga.ct.gov...]
Some pretty serious stuff there for all tiers.
Sorry, I don't know what just caused my computer to hang but I had to restart. I did look it up. Have to get to class now. Thanks again.
| 253 |
b_sharp Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:17:35pm |
re: #185 RogueOne
There is a lot more information that can be obtained from a persons DNA over a mere fingerprint.
Like?
Who their parents are. What else?
| 255 |
simoom Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:20:46pm |
Here's Steve Bowman, Executive Editor for ESPNOutdoors.com, apologizing for and walking back the story:
[Link: sports.espn.go.com...]
Firestorms get started in a variety of ways, especially on politicized issues.ESPNOutdoors.com inadvertently contributed to a flare-up Tuesday when we posted the latest article in a series of stories on President Barack Obama's newly created Ocean Policy Task Force, a column written by Robert Montgomery, a conservation writer for BASS since 1985. Regrettably, we made several errors in the editing and presentation of this installment. Though our series has included numerous news stories on the topic, this was not one of them -- it was an opinion piece, and should have been clearly labeled as commentary.
...
We take seriously the tenets of journalism that require we take an unbiased approach, and when we make mistakes in the presentation of a story or a column, it is our responsibility to admit them.Any confusion on that part rests entirely on my shoulders as the executive editor of this site.
We have appended the original column to note that it was in fact a commentary, and we will institute more rigorous editing safeguards in order to prevent such issues in the future.
| 256 |
Kruk Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:24:19pm |
re: #255 simoom
Here's Steve Bowman, Executive Editor for ESPNOutdoors.com, apologizing for and walking back the story:
[Link: sports.espn.go.com...]
Nice to see a proper apology, not "We apolgise to anyone who misunderstood/was confused." Good on him.
| 257 |
prairiefire Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:25:54pm |
| 258 |
b_sharp Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:27:04pm |
re: #220 SanFranciscoZionist
Freepers are amazingly stupid.
Being a Freeper I could take offence at that, but since I have first hand experience with lotsa and lotsa wingnuts from there I feel gypped I couldn't give you more than 1 upding.
| 259 |
simoom Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:40:43pm |
re: #256 Kruk
Nice to see a proper apology, not "We apolgise to anyone who misunderstood/was confused." Good on him.
I half agree. I'm glad they apologized and walked it back, but IMO since their story caused such uproar/protest, reaching as far as the House Science Committee and since it's unlikely the majority of folks who learned of the "outrage" will ever see the walkback; I really think the original article needed a full retraction and the Editor's mea culpa needed much greater visibility (linked at the top of ESPNOutdoor's front page).
Unfortunately, this is going to be another one of those Obama myths that is never going to die.
| 260 |
Gus Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:40:43pm |
re: #248 prairiefire
Good afternoon, Lizards.
My great uncle's unit in WW2 was Marine Aircraft Group 35, Pacific, 1944.
I would appreciate any input, thanks. My step-mom says she can't find much info. I appreciate it!
Try this:
MAG-35 is listed under "unit and location" lists.
History of the U.S. Marine Corps in WWII Vol II - Isolation on ...
History of the U.S. Marine Corps in WWII Vol III - Central Pacific ...
History of the U.S. Marine Corps in WWII Vol V - Victory and ...
History of the U.S. Marine Corps in WWII Vol IV - Western Pacific ...
| 261 |
doubter4444 Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:42:03pm |
re: #245 Dark_Falcon
Concur.
But if you are arrested and fingerprinted and mug shot, what do you guys think they do with that?
It goes into a data base.
It's pulled out if necessary in the future.
It does not get tossed.
DNA is the same thing.
| 262 |
b_sharp Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:48:38pm |
re: #226 SixDegrees
That guy who got jailed for having sex with his picnic table will probably have to stay away from picnic areas for the rest of his life now.
He got jailed for that?
I guess I better go hide all my soap-on-a-rope.
| 263 |
SixDegrees Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:53:08pm |
re: #262 b_sharp
He got jailed for that?
I guess I better go hide all my soap-on-a-rope.
Six months. Although there's apparently more to the story than just the table's side. He was also convicted of distributing "harmful materials" to juveniles, whatever that might mean.
| 264 |
prairiefire Fri, Mar 12, 2010 3:58:30pm |
re: #260 Gus 802
Thanks, Gus.
So, I don't read that they were under Boyington.
Who is your avatar peeing on?
| 265 |
Gus Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:01:15pm |
re: #264 prairiefire
Thanks, Gus.
So, I don't read that they were under Boyington.Who is your avatar peeing on?
Didn't see anything about Boyington.
Oh, that's Calvin peeing on Don McLeroy from the Texas Board of Education.
Hey, you might want to look through this search too: "marine air group 35"
| 266 |
Obdicut Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:05:15pm |
re: #265 Gus 802
Gus, just because you might care: Bill Watterson doesn't like people using Calvin for anything at all. He doesn't engage in many legal battles, but he refrained from commercialization of it for a reason.
I won't mention it again to you, just in case you didn't know.
| 267 |
Gus Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:06:12pm |
re: #266 Obdicut
Gus, just because you might care: Bill Watterson doesn't like people using Calvin for anything at all. He doesn't engage in many legal battles, but he refrained from commercialization of it for a reason.
I won't mention it again to you, just in case you didn't know.
OK, thanks. I won't have it up for long. I realize McLeroy is a pest but it's a little too negative.
| 268 |
Obdicut Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:09:54pm |
re: #267 Gus 802
No problem. Thanks for taking the information with good grace.
| 269 |
Gus Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:13:30pm |
re: #264 prairiefire
Thanks, Gus.
So, I don't read that they were under Boyington.Who is your avatar peeing on?
Found this too: US Marine Corps WWII Order of Battle
MAG-35 Cherry Point 1 Apr 43. Relocated to Corvallis April 44 and then El Centro Oct 44. Served as a transport training and replacement unit. V-J Day El Centro. Deactivated Mirramar 46.
| 270 |
prairiefire Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:13:54pm |
This is a plane MAG 35 used:[Link: www.aflyer.com...]
| 271 |
RogueOne Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:20:37pm |
re: #205 garhighway
Has there been some sort of big problem with how fingerprints are stored?
Back for just a sec.
Not that I know. I was referring to NH (I think) keeping gun buying records years longer than the state law allowed. IIRC, and don't quote me, it had something to do with keeping an old lady from buying a gun.
| 272 |
RogueOne Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:23:52pm |
re: #233 doubter4444
Why is a horrible idea?
You say so, but give no reason.
I don't have to give a reason, the government has to give a reason for violating your right to privacy. This IS a great country after all.
| 273 |
RogueOne Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:29:03pm |
re: #249 HoosierHoops
I guess I just don't get it.. 20 years from now every new born Baby will have their DNA put into a Database.. It's a fact..And it's a good thing...You grow up to be a rapist at your own risks..It can prove you guilty and save your ass..
Rights?
OK when I got my top secret FBI clearance to work for the DOD I not only went through finger printing, Interviews and somebody talked to my teachers and Neighbors...Every record of me in America...A TS clearance at that time cost the Government 50,000 Dollars...
Every month for 20 years as a nuke my Blood was taken, My piss was collected..My TLD radioactive levels were reviewed and stored in a dbase.
I have print outs of my Government Health reports and someday when all us Nuke workers are long dead some computer program will be reviewing why we died and all the markers and release studies that will help our future generations.
Folks..This isn't 1762 anymore.. It's 2010 and DNA is here to stay..
You, like I, chose to give up your right to privacy. Having the government demand you give up that right, without some form of probable cause, is a violation.
| 274 |
RogueOne Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:30:26pm |
K, off again to get out and go drinking. Stay off the sidewalks.
| 275 |
Cato the Elder Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:38:43pm |
re: #225 garhighway
Whew. Do you feel better after that moral chin-up?
| 276 |
Gus Fri, Mar 12, 2010 4:51:52pm |
re: #264 prairiefire
More tidbits.
Location of US Aircraft - July 4, 1944
Go to page 14 and you'll will find:
MAG-35
SERVRON 35
VMR-953 (12) R5C-1 Corvallis
R5C-1 was the Marine designation for the C-46. VMR-953 was the squadron.
I was also able to find this regarding VMR-953:
CURTISS R5C COMMANDO
by Jack McKillopIn August 1944, VMR-953 arrived at MCAS Ewa from the U.S. and was equipped with R5C-1's. The squadron began flying missions from Ewa to various Pacific locations including Leyte Island in the Philippine Islands and Okinawa in the Ryukyu Islands until VJ Day.
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