Park51 Developer: No Money from Iran or Hamas

US NewsAugust 2010 • Views: 3,467

The developer behind the Park51 project launched a fundraising effort today, and announced that they will not accept money from Iran, Hamas, or any “organizations that have un-American values.”

Sharif El-Gamal, the developer behind the so-called “Ground Zero Mosque,” told CBS News in an interview last night that the backers of the project will not take money from “organizations that have un-American values.”

“We will not take money from Iran. We will not take money from Hamas,” said El-Gamal of the funding for the project, a proposed Islamic cultural center two blocks from the former site of the World Trade Center called Park51.

“The money is going to be coming from people that want to get involved in the project,” he told CBS News’ Scott Pelley. “And I think it’s gonna come from people from all walks of life.”

Video

UPDATE at 8/27/10 5:20:48 pm:

The Park51 community center may also be eligible for public financing.

(Reuters) - The Muslim center planned near the site of the World Trade Center attack could qualify for tax-free financing, a spokesman for City Comptroller John Liu said on Friday, and Liu is willing to consider approving the public subsidy. …

“If it turns out to be financially feasible and if they can demonstrate an ability to pay off the bonds and comply with the laws concerning tax-exempt financing, we’d certainly consider it,” Sieber told Reuters.

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191 comments

darthstar Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:07:38pm

That’s going to piss off the “radical Islam” fear merchants.

Racer X Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:08:07pm

No need.

re: #321 Bear

I though NYC needed tax money.

[Link: www.reuters.com…]

darthstar Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:10:38pm

re: #2 Racer X

No need.

Hey, faith-based programs funding was totally cool before 01-20-09…what changed?

Stan the Demanded Plan Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:11:40pm

They’ve received a little bit of my money. Questionable source that I am.

darthstar Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:13:07pm

re: #4 Stanley Sea

They’ve received a little bit of my money. Questionable source that I am.

So, it IS a conspiracy…I knew it.

brookly red Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:13:17pm

oh this is gonna be huge…

darthstar Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:13:53pm

re: #6 brookly red

oh this is gonna be huge…

(that’s what my missus said last night)

Killgore Trout Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:15:06pm

MOney from Iran or Hamas goes without saying. The wingnuts are freaking out about the possibility but it’s already illegal for them to accept funds from terrorist entities. That includes Iran.

sagehen Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:16:33pm

re: #7 darthstar

(that’s what my missus said last night)

this

Killgore Trout Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:18:24pm

re: #2 Racer X

No need.

Are you going to oppose tax free bonds for community development for everybody or just Muslims?
It’s a losing issue for wingnuts.

Tax laws allow such funding for religiously affiliated non-profits if they can prove the facility will benefit the general public and their religious activities are funded separately.

Do you really think raising taxes on religious groups who “benefit the general public”?

Stan the Demanded Plan Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:18:55pm

re: #6 brookly red

oh this is gonna be huge…

If you are talking about the possibility of them being eligible for tax free financing, yeah, it’s going to be huge when the freakouters are presented with all the previous groups who receive same. Another selective outrage because of who these people are, nothing more.

Killgore Trout Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:19:28pm

re: #10 Killgore Trout

Do you really think raising taxes on religious groups who “benefit the general public” is a good idea?
/I stink

Stan the Demanded Plan Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:19:37pm

re: #11 Stanley Sea

If you are talking about the possibility of them being eligible for tax free financing, yeah, it’s going to be huge when the freakouters are presented with all the previous groups who receive same. Another selective outrage because of who these people are, nothing more.

So so transparent.

Killgore Trout Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:21:29pm

No taxation without Islamification!
/Wahabi tax accountants

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:21:37pm

re: #1 darthstar

That’s going to piss off the “radical Islam” fear merchants.

Not in the slightest. It’s all taqiya to them.

Gus Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:22:25pm

re: #14 Killgore Trout

No taxation without Islamification!
/Wahabi tax accountants

Sharia tax law iz here!!11ty /

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:22:28pm

re: #8 Killgore Trout

MOney from Iran or Hamas goes without saying. The wingnuts are freaking out about the possibility but it’s already illegal for them to accept funds from terrorist entities. That includes Iran.

But they’re making it clear, which is apparently necessary.

Why would Hamas send money anyway? Hamas doesn’t give money, Hamas takes money!

darthstar Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:23:26pm

re: #9 sagehen

this

Laughing my fuckin’ ass off.

brookly red Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:23:46pm

re: #11 Stanley Sea

If you are talking about the possibility of them being eligible for tax free financing, yeah, it’s going to be huge when the freakouters are presented with all the previous groups who receive same. Another selective outrage because of who these people are, nothing more.

no you misunderstand me… this whole thing is gonna be huge (like I said all along) this is becoming a major issue.

Jeff In Ohio Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:24:09pm

re: #7 darthstar

(that’s what my missus said last night)

Honest? That’s not the only thing she said to me.

tnguitarist Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:25:26pm

This should diffuse all the criticism, right?….. Right?

Kragar Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:25:40pm

Obviously a cunning ruse.

spikester Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:25:46pm

re: #9 sagehen

nice
i ♥ xkcd

Gus Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:26:27pm

re: #21 tnguitarist

This should diffuse all the criticism, right?… Right?

Nah. If you watch closely you can see that Sharif El-Gamal is sending coded messages with his eyebrows to his comrades in Iran.

Jeff In Ohio Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:26:45pm

re: #19 brookly red

no you misunderstand me… this whole thing is gonna be huge (like I said all along) this is becoming a major issue.

Hey man, can you help a slow hick out and be a bit more specific?

Racer X Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:28:08pm

re: #10 Killgore Trout

Are you going to oppose tax free bonds for community development for everybody or just Muslims?
It’s a losing issue for wingnuts.

Do you really think raising taxes on religious groups who “benefit the general public”?

I am a raging bigoted racist tea bagging wingnut. Wait. No I’m not.

;-)

Killgore Trout Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:28:38pm

re: #19 brookly red

no you misunderstand me… this whole thing is gonna be huge (like I said all along) this is becoming a major issue.

Exactly how is this going to be huge? Do you think the existing tax law should be repealed or that Muslims should be excluded? Is there a third option I’m missing?

Killgore Trout Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:29:35pm

re: #26 Racer X

I am a raging bigoted racist tea bagging wingnut. Wait. No I’m not.

;-)

I’m just trying to understand where people think this outrageous outrage is going. It makes no sense to me.

Racer X Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:30:07pm

re: #27 Killgore Trout

Exactly how is this going to be huge? Do you think the existing tax law should be repealed or that Muslims should be excluded? Is there a third option I’m missing?

This will be huge.

If you think the wingnuts were freaking out before, wait til they find out the mosque is getting taxpayer money as funding.

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:30:16pm

re: #24 Gus 802

Nah. If you watch closely you can see that Sharif El-Gamal is sending coded messages with his eyebrows to his comrades in Iran.

/

For whatever reason, Pam keeps referring to this guy as ‘Gamal the Waiter’, or, ‘the waiter, Gamal’. I can only assume that he works, or worked at some time, as a waiter, but why she feels this is his most important characteristic escapes me.

spikester Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:30:43pm

re: #26 Racer X
“I am a raging bigoted racist tea bagging wingnut.”
don’t worry… big pharma is working on a save for that

brookly red Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:30:49pm

re: #25 Jeff In Ohio

Hey man, can you help a slow hick out and be a bit more specific?

;) yeah OK I own that…

let me put it this way, this is an issue, for better or worse, that won’t go away… it will be a talking point in the midterms, it will still be here in 2012. This is going to be huge… like that.

Racer X Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:31:06pm

re: #31 spikester

“I am a raging bigoted racist tea bagging wingnut.”
don’t worry… big pharma is working on a save for that

Well, I got better.

tnguitarist Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:31:11pm

re: #30 SanFranciscoZionist

For whatever reason, Pam keeps referring to this guy as ‘Gamal the Waiter’, or, ‘the waiter, Gamal’. I can only assume that he works, or worked at some time, as a waiter, but why she feels this is his most important characteristic escapes me.

In her eyes, it puts him beneath her.

Four More Tears Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:31:16pm

re: #27 Killgore Trout

Exactly how is this going to be huge? Do you think the existing tax law should be repealed or that Muslims should be excluded? Is there a third option I’m missing?

I think they’re right, KT. It might not seem pertinent to us, but this will become a huge talking point.

Killgore Trout Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:31:34pm

re: #29 Racer X

This will be huge.

If you think the wingnuts were freaking out before, wait til they find out the mosque is getting taxpayer money as funding.

Like when Obama eats an ice cream or plays golf? Sure, wingnuts are freaking out about it but it’s not going to go anywhere.

Stan the Demanded Plan Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:31:43pm

re: #28 Killgore Trout

I’m just trying to understand where people think this outrageous outrage is going. It makes no sense to me.

They do everything right. They even disavow donations from people not allowed to donate in the beginning. To satisfy the cries that you are not the “Moderate Muslim” (tm) we’ve been clamoring for over the past 7 years.

But it’s not enough. Nope.

Gus Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:32:53pm

re: #30 SanFranciscoZionist

For whatever reason, Pam keeps referring to this guy as ‘Gamal the Waiter’, or, ‘the waiter, Gamal’. I can only assume that he works, or worked at some time, as a waiter, but why she feels this is his most important characteristic escapes me.

Simply that she’s a bigot. It’s also rather childish coming from someone that wants to be taken seriously by CNN and other news channels but that’s been the typical behavior of the far-right in America. Most of them act like a bunch of teenagers in high school or junior high.

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:32:56pm

re: #34 tnguitarist

In her eyes, it puts him beneath her.

I would have assumed that his just being a Muslim would have done that already.

Woman’s not right in the head.

Ojoe Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:33:06pm

Gotta define your terms to have an intelligent discussion, folks, so ideally we need a definition or list of “un-American values.”

I would love to see it.

Stan the Demanded Plan Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:33:16pm

re: #29 Racer X

This will be huge.

If you think the wingnuts were freaking out before, wait til they find out the mosque is getting taxpayer money as funding.

Not taxpayer money as funding. Read the article.

Available tax free financing. Just like every other group in the past.

Killgore Trout Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:33:28pm

re: #35 JasonA

I think they’re right, KT. It might not seem pertinent to us, but this will become a huge talking point.

It’s a dead end talking point. They have to either advocate raising taxes on religious organizations who help their communities or they have to exclude Muslims from using the law. Either way they look like douchebags.

goddamnedfrank Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:33:55pm

re: #30 SanFranciscoZionist

For whatever reason, Pam keeps referring to this guy as ‘Gamal the Waiter’, or, ‘the waiter, Gamal’. I can only assume that he works, or worked at some time, as a waiter, but why she feels this is his most important characteristic escapes me.

Because she can’t quite get away with calling him boy, yet.

Four More Tears Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:33:56pm

re: #42 Killgore Trout

It’s a dead end talking point. They have to either advocate raising taxes on religious organizations who help their communities or they have to exclude Muslims from using the law. Either way they look like douchebags.

Logically, sure.

Racer X Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:33:57pm

re: #36 Killgore Trout

Like when Obama eats an ice cream or plays golf? Sure, wingnuts are freaking out about it but it’s not going to go anywhere.

Wanna bet?

Gus Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:34:52pm

Plus. Let’s face it. We are talking the Northeast here. You know, the greater New York area. Land of the tailgating drivers.

Racer X Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:35:15pm

re: #41 Stanley Sea

Not taxpayer money as funding. Read the article.

Available tax free financing. Just like every other group in the past.

Duh-oh!
*slaps forehead*

I took that as free money. My bad.

sagehen Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:36:15pm

re: #12 Killgore Trout

Do you really think raising taxes on religious groups who “benefit the general public” is a good idea?
/I stink

My concern would be how broad is the definition of “benefit the general public”.

One of the charities I give some money to is operated by a christian church, but that’s because I know enough about that outfit in particular to know I’m not contributing to overtly religious doings. I don’t think government agencies know enough about all their faith-based applications for me to feel confident they meet that criteria.

Ojoe Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:36:44pm

re: #36 Killgore Trout

Like when Obama eats an ice cream or plays golf? Sure, wingnuts are freaking out about it but it’s not going to go anywhere.

Actually that, and similar things, are going right to an epic political slaughter in November, probably not seen in living memory.

It will be fun to watch, and then it will perhaps be Democrats who will be tempted to join the Modern Whigs.

Jeff In Ohio Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:37:24pm

re: #42 Killgore Trout

It’s a dead end talking point. They have to either advocate raising taxes on religious organizations who help their communities or they have to exclude Muslims from using the law. Either way they look like douchebags.

At this point, that doesn’t seem to much of a leap.

Stan the Demanded Plan Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:38:06pm

re: #47 Racer X

Did you catch Fish today on Jim Rome is Burning? Interviewed Kobe.

Racer X Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:39:06pm

Texas Vows To Reclaim Title Of Most Regressive State From Arizona

Following a series of embarrassingly backward laws recently enacted in Arizona, Texas governor Rick Perry pledged Wednesday to do everything in his power to reestablish his state as the most regressive in the nation.

“I commend Arizona for its commitment to exceedingly draconian social policies, but [Arizona Governor] Jan Brewer should know that we still have some real doozies up our sleeve,” said Perry, referring to Arizona’s passage of the strictest immigration law in recent U.S. history, as well as its measures allowing concealed weapons to be carried without a permit and banning ethnic studies programs in public schools.

“Don’t forget, we just put an ultraconservative stamp on our educational curriculum that’s going to affect the textbooks the whole country uses, and I’m still the only governor nutso enough to float secession. Mark my words, we’ll be back and more fucked up than ever!”

Sources close to Perry said that Texas may soon start storing undocumented migrant workers in dog cages while courts decide their immigration status, though Arizona plans to counter with a giant cannon that will be used to shoot anyone with a skin tone darker than ochre who crosses the border from Mexico.

Racer X Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:39:34pm

re: #51 Stanley Sea

:)

Did you catch Fish today on Jim Rome is Burning? Interviewed Kobe.

Dang it, no.

Stan the Demanded Plan Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:41:52pm

re: #53 Racer X

Dang it, no.

Fish was a little boring (he filled in for Jim) but Kobe was good. Not online yet that I can find.

brookly red Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:43:37pm

re: #27 Killgore Trout

re: #35 JasonA

I think they’re right, KT. It might not seem pertinent to us, but this will become a huge talking point.

Sorry I was on the phone…

but all I am saying is that this is going to be a huge issue, like immigration, abortion, or gun control… this done struck a nerve and it is not going to go away. like that.

researchok Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:44:15pm

That potential public funding option will prove to be a red flag for the anti Park51 crowd. They are gonna go nuts.

Oh yeah.

Velvet Elvis Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:44:18pm

Any Islamic group or charity that contributes money to it is somehow going to be 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon away from Iran or Hamas. They will find a way to make the connection.

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:46:44pm

re: #56 researchok

That potential public funding option will prove to be a red flag for the anti Park51 crowd. They are gonna go nuts.

Oh yeah.

Agreed, it’ll be like a conspiracy theory perpetual motion machine

Stan the Demanded Plan Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:47:10pm

re: #30 SanFranciscoZionist

For whatever reason, Pam keeps referring to this guy as ‘Gamal the Waiter’, or, ‘the waiter, Gamal’. I can only assume that he works, or worked at some time, as a waiter, but why she feels this is his most important characteristic escapes me.

re: #38 Gus 802

Simply that she’s a bigot. It’s also rather childish coming from someone that wants to be taken seriously by CNN and other news channels but that’s been the typical behavior of the far-right in America. Most of them act like a bunch of teenagers in high school or junior high.

re: #43 goddamnedfrank

Because she can’t quite get away with calling him boy, yet.

I’m still kind of freaking out about this. Hate is so up front and center. Imagine being this guy.

TedStriker Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:47:10pm

re: #57 Conservative Moonbat

Any Islamic group or charity that contributes money to it is somehow going to be 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon away from Iran or Hamas. They will find a way to make the connection.

True…trying to be completely aboveboard and transparent, the Cordoba Initiative is damned if they do, damned if they don’t.

Killgore Trout Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:49:15pm

re: #55 brookly red

re: #35 JasonA

Sorry I was on the phone…

but all I am saying is that this is going to be a huge issue, like immigration, abortion, or gun control… this done struck a nerve and it is not going to go away. like that.

It’s not going to be an election issue because any politician advocating repealing the law or excluding Muslims is going to have to defend that position in debates. It’s another in a long string of self debunking outrageous outrages.

brookly red Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:51:54pm

re: #56 researchok

That potential public funding option will prove to be a red flag for the anti Park51 crowd. They are gonna go nuts.

Oh yeah.

well of course it will be, how could it not? My point is not that it is right or wrong, but how it will be received by the same people that were just told that they could not erect crosses to honer fallen state troopers… this is an issue weather one likes it or not that will cut right to the bone politically. This is going to be the defining issue of our time. juss sayin

tnguitarist Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:53:29pm

re: #61 Killgore Trout

It’s not going to be an election issue because any politician advocating repealing the law or excluding Muslims is going to have to defend that position in debates. It’s another in a long string of self debunking outrageous outrages.

The people against it honestly don’t care if Muslims have fewer rights.

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:53:45pm

re: #55 brookly red

re: #35 JasonA

Sorry I was on the phone…

but all I am saying is that this is going to be a huge issue, like immigration, abortion, or gun control… this done struck a nerve and it is not going to go away. like that.

I think we’re going to be hearing about it for a while, but I can’t imagine it has the lasting power of any of those three.

Killgore Trout Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:54:44pm

re: #63 tnguitarist

The people against it honestly don’t care if Muslims have fewer rights.

That’s becoming increasingly clear.

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:55:01pm

re: #62 brookly red

well of course it will be, how could it not? My point is not that it is right or wrong, but how it will be received by the same people that were just told that they could not erect crosses to honer fallen state troopers… this is an issue weather one likes it or not that will cut right to the bone politically. This is going to be the defining issue of our time. juss sayin

The DEFINING ISSUE of our time is whether a community center can be built in downtown Manhattan?

Jesus wept.

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:56:33pm

re: #62 brookly red

well of course it will be, how could it not? My point is not that it is right or wrong, but how it will be received by the same people that were just told that they could not erect crosses to honer fallen state troopers… this is an issue weather one likes it or not that will cut right to the bone politically. This is going to be the defining issue of our time. juss sayin

And when you say the bit about the crosses, do you mean in Utah? What on earth is the connection there? I missed a turn.

Stan the Demanded Plan Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:56:43pm

re: #66 SanFranciscoZionist

The DEFINING ISSUE of our time is whether a community center can be built in downtown Manhattan?

Jesus wept.

And Stanley puked.

brookly red Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:56:58pm

re: #64 SanFranciscoZionist

I think we’re going to be hearing about it for a while, but I can’t imagine it has the lasting power of any of those three.

well it is only my prediction, and of course I could be wrong… but I am thinking it has legs. and I also think it embodies the essence of the opposition so I am thinking it will last.

TedStriker Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:57:00pm

re: #66 SanFranciscoZionist

The DEFINING ISSUE of our time is whether a community center can be built in downtown Manhattan?

Jesus wept.

I think Jesus would have tore the bigots and xenophobes new assholes…

spikester Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:58:09pm

re: #70 talon_262

if He did He’d do it with love

Charles Johnson Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:58:23pm

re: #63 tnguitarist

The people against it honestly don’t care if Muslims have fewer rights.

I think it’s worse than that. Many of the people behind this subscribe to the Geert Wilders Zero Sum Religious War bullshit, and ultimately want to criminalize the entire religion of Islam.

The leader of SANE, David Yerushalmi, one of Geller’s associates, is quite explicit about this. As is Wilders.

Killgore Trout Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:58:31pm

re: #66 SanFranciscoZionist

The DEFINING ISSUE of our time is whether a community center can be built in downtown Manhattan?

Jesus wept.

It’s stupid. Wingnuts think secret socialist plots are of vital importance. Every outrageous outrage is more important and urgent than the next. It’s an endless cycle.
I would be open to a real debate about taxing churches and religious organizations but that’s not what they’re talking about here.

brookly red Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:58:47pm

re: #70 talon_262

I think Jesus would have tore the bigots and xenophobes new assholes…

I think you don’t know Jesus :)

Stan the Demanded Plan Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:59:05pm

re: #67 SanFranciscoZionist

And when you say the bit about the crosses, do you mean in Utah? What on earth is the connection there? I missed a turn.

As I drive every other day past this huge cross that GW and the Feds purchased to save it from a lawsuit. Joke.

Oh and it’s ugly. Cinderblocks basically.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

TedStriker Fri, Aug 27, 2010 5:59:37pm

re: #71 spikester

if He did He’d do it with love

Because the bigots and xenophobes apparently forgot or ignore His message…seems the only part of the Bible they pay attention to is the Old Testament.

researchok Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:00:05pm

re: #58 WindUpBird

Agreed, it’ll be like a conspiracy theory perpetual motion machine

Yup. They’ll go nuts.

Dark_Falcon Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:00:28pm

re: #61 Killgore Trout

It’s not going to be an election issue because any politician advocating repealing the law or excluding Muslims is going to have to defend that position in debates. It’s another in a long string of self debunking outrageous outrages.

They won’t debate, they’ll just cite the polls in their favor, call the person who disagrees with them ‘out-of-touch’, and then plow on. It’ll work too, since most people don’t favor building Park 51 on that site, including me. Rauf’s got a right to build it there, but he should not exercise that right.

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:01:14pm

re: #75 Stanley Sea

As I drive every other day past this huge cross that GW and the Feds purchased to save it from a lawsuit. Joke.

Oh and it’s ugly. Cinderblocks basically.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

Wait, doesn’t the Feds buying it CREATE a lawsuit?

In San Francisco, the City just sold the Mt. Davidson cross the local Armenian community organization. Now it’s technically a memorial for the Armenian genocide, but they still have the big Easter morning service there every year and suchlike.

brookly red Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:02:41pm

well once again I make a prediction that is not welcomed but alas here it is…

feel free to blame me for the feelings & actions of millions of our countrymen, I of course control them all. sheesh.

Stan the Demanded Plan Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:03:09pm

re: #79 SanFranciscoZionist

Wait, doesn’t the Feds buying it CREATE a lawsuit?

In San Francisco, the City just sold the Mt. Davidson cross the local Armenian community organization. Now it’s technically a memorial for the Armenian genocide, but they still have the big Easter morning service there every year and suchlike.

I don’t understand it either. It is still there and the main guy who fought it for years, an athiest, died of cancer. I just don’t know. Probably should look into it rather than just being pissed driving by.

Targetpractice Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:03:23pm

re: #78 Dark_Falcon

They won’t debate, they’ll just cite the polls in their favor, call the person who disagrees with them ‘out-of-touch’, and then plow on. It’ll work too, since most people don’t favor building Park 51 on that site, including me. Rauf’s got a right to build it there, but he should not exercise that right.

Since when did the exercise of ones rights depend on the feelings of others?

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:03:25pm

re: #80 brookly red

well once again I make a prediction that is not welcomed but alas here it is…

feel free to blame me for the feelings & actions of millions of our countrymen, I of course control them all. sheesh.

I’m hardly blaming you, just not entirely agreeing with your analysis.

b_sharp Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:04:20pm

re: #7 darthstar

(that’s what my missus said last night)

And boy was she wrong … so she tells me.

Stan the Demanded Plan Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:04:29pm

We fall for it every time. The push back gets debated the whole thread.

elbruce Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:04:53pm

Everybody who opposed the mosque being built near ground zero should donate to a fund to pay for moving ground zero somewhere else. Problem solved.

TedStriker Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:05:59pm

re: #78 Dark_Falcon

They won’t debate, they’ll just cite the polls in their favor, call the person who disagrees with them ‘out-of-touch’, and then plow on. It’ll work too, since most people don’t favor building Park 51 on that site, including me. Rauf’s got a right to build it there, but he should not exercise that right.

DF, you’ve heard the arguments here about why Iman Rauf and the CI should continue with their plans to renovate 51 Park Avenue for their stated purposes.

At the risk of asking you to repeat yourself, it’s your turn to lay out exactly why you oppose that location, rationally. Give us the whole nine yards…

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:06:02pm

re: #82 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Since when did the exercise of ones rights depend on the feelings of others?

They don’t, but on the other hand, it’s something to bear in mind. I was never keen on the ‘everybody draw Mohammed!’ thing for that reason.

OTOH, at this point, I’m so sickened by the crap coming out against this project that I’m not able to be very even-handed about it. I might even buy a membership when it’s opened. If it’s opened.

elbruce Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:06:21pm

re: #78 Dark_Falcon

It’ll work too, since most people don’t favor building Park 51 on that site, including me.

Most of the people polled had no idea what it was and had only been told it was a “ground zero mosque.” The more information that gets out there, the further opinion will sway to the other side.

I think it’s a very wise decision to build it there, so we cancel each other out.

reine.de.tout Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:09:21pm

re: #89 elbruce

Most of the people polled had no idea what it was and had only been told it was a “ground zero mosque.” The more information that gets out there, the further opinion will sway to the other side.

I think it’s a very wise decision to build it there, so we cancel each other out.

I think you’re correct, and I hope that correct information will sway people.

DF - I think at this point the community center MUST be built on that site. Unlike you, I had/have no objection to it; but after all this hoopla? They’ve GOT to build it there, IMO.

brookly red Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:09:24pm

re: #86 elbruce

Everybody who opposed the mosque being built near ground zero should donate to a fund to pay for moving ground zero somewhere else. Problem solved.

kinda off topic but it seems that we (the administration that represents us) are not going to prosecute the USS Cole bomber (mastermind) that is not sitting well in the heart land, juss saying…

Targetpractice Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:09:44pm

re: #88 SanFranciscoZionist

They don’t, but on the other hand, it’s something to bear in mind. I was never keen on the ‘everybody draw Mohammed!’ thing for that reason.

OTOH, at this point, I’m so sickened by the crap coming out against this project that I’m not able to be very even-handed about it. I might even buy a membership when it’s opened. If it’s opened.

Way I see it, it was right of those who wished to participate in the whole Mohammed deal to be pricks, as it was my right to call it as I saw it. No different than allowing the Klan or the Nazis to march in the streets. Do I agree with it? No, but that’s both the blessing and the curse of freedom of speech, expression, and (yes) religion.

TedStriker Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:11:18pm

re: #92 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Way I see it, it was right of those who wished to participate in the whole Mohammed deal to be pricks, as it was my right to call it as I saw it. No different than allowing the Klan or the Nazis to march in the streets. Do I agree with it? No, but that’s both the blessing and the curse of freedom of speech, expression, and (yes) religion.

Exactly…the flip side of that is that when people take those freedoms too far, the law will deal with them.

TedStriker Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:14:34pm

re: #90 reine.de.tout

I think you’re correct, and I hope that correct information will sway people.

DF - I think at this point the community center MUST be built on that site. Unlike you, I had/have no objection to it; but after all this hoopla? They’ve GOT to build it there, IMO.

It’s a great location for their stated purposes and, besides, it’d be a big “fuck you” to the bigots, xenophobes, and the ignorant, irrational people who have been led by the nose on this by those same bigots and xenophobes.

b_sharp Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:14:56pm

re: #68 Stanley Sea

And Stanley puked.

I hope Stanley cleaned up after herself.

Four More Tears Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:15:38pm

re: #94 talon_262

It’s a great location for their stated purposes and, besides, it’d be a big “fuck you” to the bigots, xenophobes, and the ignorant, irrational people who have been led by the nose on this by those same bigots and xenophobes.

If I were a believer I’d be praying for the safety of that center.

TedStriker Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:15:53pm

re: #95 b_sharp

I hope Stanley cleaned up after herself.

That’s why God invented sawdust and ShopVacs…

;-P

Max Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:15:58pm

OT: I’m looking for a book on the European far right (BNP, Vlaams Belang, et al) but when I look on Amazon, there are no books about it that are under thirty dollars and I could only find one available on Kindle.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

elbruce Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:16:08pm

re: #91 brookly red

kinda off topic but it seems that we (the administration that represents us) are not going to prosecute the USS Cole bomber (mastermind) that is not sitting well in the heart land, juss saying…

If there hasn’t been a trial, how do you know he’s guilty? Much less the “mastermind?”

Then there’s this:

The Defense Department issued a statement Thursday saying the case is not stalled. “Prosecutors in the Office of Military Commissions are actively investigating the case against Mr. al-Nashiri and are developing charges against him,” the statement said.

But the whole notion of “the people who have lied a hundred times in a row about guilt or innocence of detainees say he’s guilty so he is,” doesn’t sit well with me at all.

In any case, under the current military tribunal system, if he doesn’t get a trial, that means he just sits in jail without trial indefinetely. Which I think would upset progressives far more than neocons, who seem perfectly pleased with that sort of thing.

100

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:16:12pm

re: #91 brookly red

kinda off topic but it seems that we (the administration that represents us) are not going to prosecute the USS Cole bomber (mastermind) that is not sitting well in the heart land, juss saying…

Brookly, sometimes it’s not that I disagree with you on things, it’s that the sweeping lessons you draw from them go in directions I couldn’t have imagined.

Al-Nashiri will never be freed, he will rot at Guantanamo, we’ve had him for eight years now, we’ll have him until hell freezes over and he can go ice-skating. I don’t know enough law, or enough about what’s going on with this case to say if I agree with the delay on prosecution, or what previous delays there have been for what reason.

OK, there it is. But you announce that it’s not sitting well ‘in the heartland’. Where the heck is ‘the heartland’, and how is it especially not sitting well there, except that the Jawa Report is frothing at the mouth over this? How do you know what’s going on in the heartland, a term I assume has something to do with the Midwest?

101

Lidane Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:16:23pm

re: #57 Conservative Moonbat

Anyone ~~Islamic group or charity~~ that contributes money to it is somehow going to be 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon away from Iran or Hamas. They will find a way to make the connection.

FTFY.

Pamz and the other mental midgets protesting Park51 will find a way to connect ANYONE who gives money to the project to Hamas or Iran. Just watch.

102

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:16:34pm

re: #92 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Way I see it, it was right of those who wished to participate in the whole Mohammed deal to be pricks, as it was my right to call it as I saw it. No different than allowing the Klan or the Nazis to march in the streets. Do I agree with it? No, but that’s both the blessing and the curse of freedom of speech, expression, and (yes) religion.

Entirely, but I do insist that they were, in fact, being pricks.

103

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:16:53pm

re: #96 JasonA

If I were a believer I’d be praying for the safety of that center.

A lot of us are.

104

Stan the Demanded Plan Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:17:19pm

re: #95 b_sharp

I hope Stanley cleaned up after herself.

Oh it was gracious, no worries. Trash can always handy.

105

TedStriker Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:17:30pm

re: #96 JasonA

If I were a believer I’d be praying for the safety of that center.

re: #103 SanFranciscoZionist

A lot of us are.

Amen to that…

106

Targetpractice Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:18:28pm

re: #102 SanFranciscoZionist

Entirely, but I do insist that they were, in fact, being pricks.

Unfortunately, if being a prick were a crime, we’d all be in jail.

107

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:18:46pm

re: #101 Lidane

FTFY.

Pamz and the other mental midgets protesting Park51 will find a way to connect ANYONE who gives money to the project to Hamas or Iran. Just watch.

What is Mahmoud al-Zahar’s Kevin Bacon number, I wonder?

108

TedStriker Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:19:13pm

re: #106 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Unfortunately, if being a prick were a crime, we’d all be in jail.

I hear that…I can be a grumpy young-ish man sometimes.

109

Dark_Falcon Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:20:28pm

re: #90 reine.de.tout

I think you’re correct, and I hope that correct information will sway people.

DF - I think at this point the community center MUST be built on that site. Unlike you, I had/have no objection to it; but after all this hoopla? They’ve GOT to build it there, IMO.

If its built there, it won’t be welcomed as a bridge, it’ll be disliked as something put where it isn’t wanted.

110

b_sharp Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:20:54pm

re: #106 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Unfortunately, if being a prick were a crime, we’d all be in jail.

Huh?

What you lookin’ at Willis?

111

Racer X Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:21:37pm

re: #109 Dark_Falcon

If its built there, it won’t be welcomed as a bridge, it’ll be disliked as something put where it isn’t wanted.

Agreed.

There will be assholes hanging out in front protesting there for years.

112

Racer X Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:21:48pm

Image: 52xFy.jpg

113

brookly red Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:22:03pm

re: #100 SanFranciscoZionist

Brookly, sometimes it’s not that I disagree with you on things, it’s that the sweeping lessons you draw from them go in directions I couldn’t have imagined.

Al-Nashiri will never be freed, he will rot at Guantanamo, we’ve had him for eight years now, we’ll have him until hell freezes over and he can go ice-skating. I don’t know enough law, or enough about what’s going on with this case to say if I agree with the delay on prosecution, or what previous delays there have been for what reason.

OK, there it is. But you announce that it’s not sitting well ‘in the heartland’. Where the heck is ‘the heartland’, and how is it especially not sitting well there, except that the Jawa Report is frothing at the mouth over this? How do you know what’s going on in the heartland, a term I assume has something to do with the Midwest?

the heart land? well that what is between you and me :)

114

elbruce Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:22:10pm

re: #109 Dark_Falcon

If its built there, it won’t be welcomed as a bridge, it’ll be disliked as something put where it isn’t wanted.

I’m not sure who you’re speaking on behalf of, but it ain’t me.

All you have to do is stop disliking it and your talking point goes away.

115

Lidane Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:24:37pm

re: #111 Racer X

There will be assholes hanging out in front protesting there for years.

And eventually, most people will get over it and move on with their lives. The ones who will be out front protesting for years will be the cranks, like the people who spend their days parked in front of abortion clinics or strip clubs protesting.

It’s an issue for some now, but it won’t always be that way.

116

Stan the Demanded Plan Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:28:02pm

re: #115 Lidane

And eventually, most people will get over it and move on with their lives. The ones who will be out front protesting for years will be the cranks, like the people who spend their days parked in front of abortion clinics or strip clubs protesting.

It’s an issue for some now, but it won’t always be that way.

Oooh boy, can’t wait for our roller coaster ride to the next and the next demagoguery.

117

Cato the Elder Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:31:25pm

I really, really look forward to the day tax-free public financing is announced for the “mega-mosque”. Will the people who consider Manhattan “hallowed ground” switch to wanting to bomb City Hall.

One could hope that Spencergeller might have a joint apoplectic fit that would strike them dumb, but that could be asking too much.

118

Stan the Demanded Plan Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:34:07pm

Upstairs Charles just posted a mass email from David Horowitz asking for donations to support Robert Spencer. FYI

119

Nimed Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:34:15pm

re: #38 Gus 802

Simply that she’s a bigot. It’s also rather childish coming from someone that wants to be taken seriously by CNN and other news channels but that’s been the typical behavior of the far-right in America. Most of them act like a bunch of teenagers in high school or junior high.

There’s this crass high-school princess vibe to the “waiter” insult. It’s just weird when a fifty-something does it.

120

Lidane Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:34:25pm

re: #117 Cato the Elder

One could hope that Spencergeller might have a joint apoplectic fit that would strike them dumb

It’s a bit late for that, don’t you think?

121

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:34:36pm

re: #113 brookly red

the heart land? well that what is between you and me :)

Are they really especially sensitive to the Cole bomber? More so than people in your neighborhood or mine?

122

prairiefire Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:35:10pm

re: #100 SanFranciscoZionist

I haven’t heard anything about it from where I sit in the middle of the country. Local talk radio is still gnawing on the “ground zero mosque’ bone.

123

tradewind Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:35:21pm

Still waiting for Gamal’s book How I Went From Minimum-Wage Waiter to Millionaire Financier in One Short Year.

124

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:35:52pm

re: #123 tradewind

Still waiting for Gamal’s book How I Went From Minimum-Wage Waiter to Millionaire Financier in One Short Year.

Headdesk.

Isn’t that the American Dream?

125

Dark_Falcon Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:37:00pm

re: #124 SanFranciscoZionist

Headdesk.

Isn’t that the American Dream?

Yes, but his rise raises some questions. Chief among them is: Who provided his seed money?

126

tradewind Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:38:28pm

re: #125 Dark_Falcon
That question should hardly be grounds for targeting the person asking as racist, but it’s come to that.

127

Stan the Demanded Plan Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:38:49pm

re: #123 tradewind

Still waiting for Gamal’s book How I Went From Minimum-Wage Waiter to Millionaire Financier in One Short Year.

oh wow. I guess it’s a thought not held by just Pammy.

You kinda blew your cover there Trade.

128

tradewind Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:40:37pm

re: #127 Stanley Sea
No cover meant. I don’t follow Geller, and haven’t read her problem with him, but anyone who blithely accepts that there is nothing strange about the funding in Gamal’s case is just not thinking.

129

Dark_Falcon Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:40:51pm

re: #126 tradewind

That question should hardly be grounds for targeting the person asking as racist, but it’s come to that.

The problem is that many of those opposing Park 51 don’t stop with that question. They use the question to make assumptions for which they have no evidence. Asking the question is fine, but it’s just that: a question. You can’t hang anything on it.

130

CuriousLurker Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:40:53pm

re: #114 elbruce

I’m not sure who you’re speaking on behalf of, but it ain’t me.

Or me. Or the people on the board in the neighbohood who overwhelmingly approved the project. Or the people who are demonstrating in support of it. Or the hundreds of thousands of Muslims in the NYC area…

131

tradewind Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:43:32pm

re: #124 SanFranciscoZionist
I suppose, but in most cases, it’s not quite that much of a fantasy.
Seems like only a few years ago heads were exploding over Hillary’s flipping a cattle future into a 100k profit in a few short weeks. This goes considerably beyond that lottery jackpot.
If for some reason he is being presented as the face of the financing, fine. But just say so and identify his benefactor.
Do I believe that he saved his tips and came up with the money to buy the building?
Do you?

132

tradewind Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:47:47pm

re: #129 Dark_Falcon
I’m not implying that the money for the purchase came from some terror laundromat. But the bass-ackwardness of the planning for the building is anything but business as usual in the world of large-scale construction projects, and leaves questions that might be answered easily.

133

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:50:29pm

re: #131 tradewind

I suppose, but in most cases, it’s not quite that much of a fantasy.
Seems like only a few years ago heads were exploding over Hillary’s flipping a cattle future into a 100k profit in a few short weeks. This goes considerably beyond that lottery jackpot.
If for some reason he is being presented as the face of the financing, fine. But just say so and identify his benefactor.
Do I believe that he saved his tips and came up with the money to buy the building?
Do you?

Why on earth would I spend my time nosing into the finances of a person I have never met, who has been accused of no crime? I don’t know enough about his finances to judge. Do you? What are your sources of information?

134

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:51:00pm

re: #132 tradewind

I’m not implying that the money for the purchase came from some terror laundromat. But the bass-ackwardness of the planning for the building is anything but business as usual in the world of large-scale construction projects, and leaves questions that might be answered easily.

Name the last New York City construction project where you cared about where the money came from?

135

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:51:57pm

re: #133 SanFranciscoZionist

Why on earth would I spend my time nosing into the finances of a person I have never met, who has been accused of no crime? I don’t know enough about his finances to judge. Do you? What are your sources of information?

Because they’re scheming brown guys and loyal real americans can’t let them get away with having churches or owning property or voting or dating white women

136

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:54:50pm

re: #134 SanFranciscoZionist

Name the last New York City construction project where you cared about where the money came from?

re: #126 tradewind

That question should hardly be grounds for targeting the person asking as racist, but it’s come to that.

The very definition of discrimination is having one standard for people of Islamic faith when they want to erect a structure, and another standard for people of Catholic faith, when they want to erect a structure

it’s really just exactly that simple

137

tradewind Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:54:56pm

re: #133 SanFranciscoZionist
The only interest I have is that which has been generated by the media frenzy around this story. I’ve never seen so much publicity surround a project that hasn’t yet been built. In the midst of that publicity is the speculation as to who’s paying….and the articles available simply say that the developer is a man who a year ago was working as a waiter .
You know, you’re right. Nevermind. That really is the American dream.

138

Dark_Falcon Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:55:45pm

re: #135 WindUpBird

Because they’re scheming brown guys and loyal real americans can’t let them get away with having churches or owning property or voting or dating white women

Objection! Unfounded supposition as to Tradewind and I’s motives.

139

blueraven Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:57:32pm

re: #78 Dark_Falcon

They won’t debate, they’ll just cite the polls in their favor, call the person who disagrees with them ‘out-of-touch’, and then plow on. It’ll work too, since most people don’t favor building Park 51 on that site, including me. Rauf’s got a right to build it there, but he should not exercise that right.

Yeah, well Glenn Beck, I guess, has the right to have his “I have a scheme” day tomorrow at the Lincoln Memorial on the anniversary of MLK’s I have a dream speech. I dont know one liberal, progressive or whatever you want to call us who likes that worth a damn.
But we are not out there in force trying to stop him and his band of tea baggers.

140

tradewind Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:57:34pm

re: #136 WindUpBird
The subject was not discrimination. It was finance.

141

Lidane Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:58:11pm

re: #134 SanFranciscoZionist

Name the last New York City construction project where you cared about where the money came from?

They can’t. Fox News hasn’t told them about any other “suspicious” projects being built in NYC.

142

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:58:41pm

re: #137 tradewind

The only interest I have is that which has been generated by the media frenzy around this story. I‘ve never seen so much publicity surround a project that hasn’t yet been built. In the midst of that publicity is the speculation as to who’s paying…and the articles available simply say that the developer is a man who a year ago was working as a waiter .
You know, you’re right. Nevermind. That really is the American dream.

There’s a very simple reason why you haven’t seen so much publicity for an unbuilt project.

And the reason is that publicity was created by the GOP and conservative talkers and media outlets, and deliberately stoked and inflamed to appeal to the nativist base of the GOP. so when you use the word publicity, it would help if you were a little more accurate that this publicity is intentional and created for the sole purpose of leveraging bigotry into republican votes in the midterms.

143

Lidane Fri, Aug 27, 2010 6:59:10pm

re: #140 tradewind

No. The subject is having one standard for the financing of Muslim-led projects and the financing of everything else.

144

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:00:06pm

re: #140 tradewind

The subject was not discrimination. It was finance.

You might want to read what I’ve actually written, about how putting the finances of this particular project under a microscope because of its religious affiliation makes it exactly discrimination.

Again, it really is just that simple

145

Cato the Elder Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:00:46pm

re: #138 Dark_Falcon

Objection! Unfounded supposition as to Tradewind and I’s motives.

“Tradewind and I’s motives”?

Are you drunk tonight, or does your blind admiration for people like David Horowitz disable your normally reliable grammar module?

146

Dark_Falcon Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:01:03pm

re: #139 blueraven

Yeah, well Glenn Beck, I guess, has the right to have his “I have a scheme” day tomorrow at the Lincoln Memorial on the anniversary of MLK’s I have a dream speech. I dont know one liberal, progressive or whatever you want to call us who likes that worth a damn.
But we are not out there in force trying to stop him and his band of tea baggers.

And I don’t support using force to stop Rauf.

147

Dark_Falcon Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:01:45pm

re: #145 Cato the Elder

“Tradewind and I’s motives”?

Are you drunk tonight, or does your blind admiration for people like David Horowitz disable your normally reliable grammar module?

I’ve never been drunk in my life. How should I have said it?

148

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:02:09pm

If I’m muslim and I buy a nice Mercedes CLK

And every year I have to go through special paperwork and disclose additional finances and jump through extra hoops in order to prove to the government that my CLK was not paid for with terrorist dollars?

Then that’s discrimination

If you’re guilty until proven innocent, and subject to undue scrutiny simply because of religion

then that’s discrimination

simple stuff here, not exactly brain surgery

149

tradewind Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:02:15pm

re: #139 blueraven
LOL. Look who’s pushing Beck’s rally the hardest. Hint: It’s not Fox.
[Link: www.mediaite.com…]

150

Stan the Demanded Plan Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:02:18pm

re: #140 tradewind

The subject was not discrimination. It was finance.

re: #144 WindUpBird

You might want to read what I’ve actually written, about how putting the finances of this particular project under a microscope because of its religious affiliation makes it exactly discrimination.

Again, it really is just that simple

If we felt like it, I’m sure we could find these exact objections, concerns and questions at every turn of an immigrant’s life in the US.

It’s very unbecoming.

151

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:02:56pm

re: #138 Dark_Falcon

Objection! Unfounded supposition as to Tradewind and I’s motives.

ahahaha weren’t you the guy who called San Francisco “unamerican” yesterday?

152

tradewind Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:03:11pm

re: #138 Dark_Falcon
It just gets better and better.
I think we’ve found Balloon Boy, and his name is WUB./

153

blueraven Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:03:39pm

re: #149 tradewind

LOL. Look who’s pushing Beck’s rally the hardest. Hint: It’s not Fox.
[Link: www.mediaite.com…]

That’s bullshit.

154

tradewind Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:04:57pm

re: #134 SanFranciscoZionist
I will when you name the last NYC construction project that has generated this much media attention.

155

prairiefire Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:04:58pm

re: #149 tradewind

LOL. Look who’s pushing Beck’s rally the hardest. Hint: It’s not Fox.
[Link: www.mediaite.com…]

I think that is a leap on Mr. Bershad’s part to say the exposure will only help Beck. It won’t help Beck. Much like Sarah Palin, the more Americans learn of Beck’s “great scheme”, the less they will like him.

156

Cato the Elder Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:05:21pm

re: #147 Dark_Falcon

I’ve never been drunk in my life. How should I have said it?

When you speak of your house, do you call it “I’s house”? Is your car “I’s car”?

Maybe you should get drunk once in a while.

157

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:05:25pm

re: #152 tradewind

It just gets better and better.
I think we’ve found Balloon Boy, and his name is WUB./

oh the lulz

still waiting on your answer as to how unequal scrutiny based on religion isn’t discrimination

you have a habit of vanishing when you’re clearly at a disadvantage

158

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:05:40pm

re: #156 Cato the Elder

When you speak of your house, do you call it “I’s house”? Is your car “I’s car”?

Maybe you should get drunk once in a while.

This am Windupbird, who am this?

159

jaunte Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:05:49pm

re: #152 tradewind

He makes some very good, (and unanswered) points in 136 and 142.

160

prairiefire Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:06:16pm

re: #153 blueraven

That’s bullshit.

Re-quoted for truth. Trade loves the truthiest quotes to quote.

161

Cato the Elder Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:06:53pm

re: #154 tradewind

I will when you name the last NYC construction project that has generated this much media attention.

You are morphing into a dead-thread troll before our very eyes.

As Spock would say, “Fascinating!”

162

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:07:08pm

re: #141 Lidane

They can’t. Fox News hasn’t told them about any other “suspicious” projects being built in NYC.

Their money may be FILTHY. For all I know, this Sharif el-Gamal person murdered wealthy patrons of his restaurant, turned them into filet mignon and sold their Rolexes to pay for the community center.

Probably not, though.

But unless someone can point me to a real source of real concern about the financing, I just don’t care. If he sold hot Rolexes, the NYPD will eventually catch up with him. If his rich uncle spotted him the cash, the IRS either knows or will find out. Right now, however, all I have is a bunch of really dubious media sources ‘asking questions’.

163

tradewind Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:07:15pm

re: #153 blueraven
There’s a table, with hits and stats.
You can have your own opinion, but sorry, not your own set of facts.
To use a hackneyed phrase **, ’ It is what it is .’
** not that there are ever many of those in evidence/

164

windsagio Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:07:19pm

re: #157 WindUpBird

COINCIDENCE!

165

Targetpractice Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:07:36pm

re: #158 WindUpBird

This am Windupbird, who am this?

Me am Bizzaro! Me am #1 superhero!

166

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:07:58pm

re: #154 tradewind

I will when you name the last NYC construction project that has generated this much media attention.

lol.

GOP/conservative talkers: Let’s generate a bunch of artificial publicity and scrutiny on this mosque to get the base all fired up!

mainstream media: Oh man, there’s a bunch of publicity about this mosque, there must be a good reason for it, durp de derp!

Again, real simple

167

Ojoe Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:08:29pm

re: #72 Charles

I think it’s worse than that. Many of the people behind this subscribe to the Geert Wilders Zero Sum Religious War bullshit, and ultimately want to criminalize the entire religion of Islam.

The leader of SANE, David Yerushalmi, one of Geller’s associates, is quite explicit about this. As is Wilders.

The objectionable parts are already illegal in the USA.

168

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:08:32pm

re: #164 windsagio

COINCIDENCE!

teehee

169

windsagio Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:08:55pm

re: #154 tradewind

I will when you name the last NYC construction project that has generated this much media attention.

The “Ground Zero” project has gotten way more attention, really >>

170

Cato the Elder Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:09:04pm

re: #158 WindUpBird

This am Windupbird, who am this?

Me be Mongo. Mongo no like compexicated, um, stuff.

171

tradewind Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:09:14pm

re: #157 WindUpBird
That’ll be a long wait. Your bristling little assumption was never part of my premise.

172

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:09:37pm

re: #154 tradewind

I will when you name the last NYC construction project that has generated this much media attention.

So, the ONLY reason you’re concerned about this is that the media is paying attention to it?

173

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:09:58pm

re: #165 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Me am Bizzaro! Me am #1 superhero!

/

ME ARE A BIGGEST FAN OF BLENN GLECK

174

windsagio Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:10:16pm

re: #172 SanFranciscoZionist

Hint: It probably has to do really with the words:

“She”, is afraid of, and Muslims.

175

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:11:01pm

re: #167 Ojoe

The objectionable parts are already illegal in the USA.

There is nothing that should be illegal in sharia that is not already illegal in sharia. ‘At’s all.

176

blueraven Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:11:40pm

re: #163 tradewind

There’s a table, with hits and stats.
You can have your own opinion, but sorry, not your own set of facts.
To use a hackneyed phrase **, ’ It is what it is .’
** not that there are ever many of those in evidence/

Yes tradewind I clicked the link; the premise is bullshit. I suspect you know that too. But any port in a storm, eh?

177

tradewind Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:11:52pm

re: #157 WindUpBird
Patience, grasshopper. There’s no buzzer.

178

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:12:09pm

re: #175 SanFranciscoZionist

There is nothing that should be illegal in sharia that is not already illegal in sharia. ‘At’s all.

That made no sense. I mean, there is nothing in sharia that should be illegal that isn’t already illegal under the U.S. penal code.

179

tradewind Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:13:36pm

re: #172 SanFranciscoZionist
I wouldn’t even go with the ’ concern ’
label. It’s a topic, and it doesn’t appear to be lessening in intensity.
Maybe as we get closer to the midterms, otherwise known as the Abomination of Desolation./

180

Dark_Falcon Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:13:42pm

re: #178 SanFranciscoZionist

That made no sense. I mean, there is nothing in sharia that should be illegal that isn’t already illegal under the U.S. penal code.

A post so nice I updinged it twice.

181

tradewind Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:14:18pm

re: #180 Dark_Falcon
’ You’re a poet and don’t know it ‘.

182

tradewind Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:15:11pm

/upstairs/

183

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:16:19pm

re: #179 tradewind

I wouldn’t even go with the ’ concern ’
label. It’s a topic, and it doesn’t appear to be lessening in intensity.
Maybe as we get closer to the midterms, otherwise known as the Abomination of Desolation./

Obama’s birth certificate is also a ‘topic’. It fills me with a similar sense of exhaustion and slight queasiness.

184

Stan the Demanded Plan Fri, Aug 27, 2010 7:20:39pm

re: #174 windsagio

Hint: It probably has to do really with the words:

“She”, is afraid of, and Muslims.

I’ve followed Trade for awhile.

Not necessarily afraid in my eyes, but a definite dislike for the usual suspects. Mexicans, Black people and of course, members of the Democratic party, be they posters on a blog, current office holders, past office holders, and cherry on top, dead past office holders.

185

elbruce Fri, Aug 27, 2010 10:31:28pm

re: #131 tradewind

If for some reason he is being presented as the face of the financing, fine. But just say so and identify his benefactor.

If you believe that we should change the law to force all religiously oriented groups to open their books and make all donations public, then we can have that discussion. But I don’t think the megachurch pastors are going to like it…

186

thomaslknapp Fri, Aug 27, 2010 11:53:12pm

I’ve been fairly vocal in support of Park51/Cordoba Initiative’s right to build their center, but taxpayer-guaranteed bonds are a dealbreaker for me.

187

tnguitarist Sat, Aug 28, 2010 12:47:14am

re: #186 thomaslknapp

I’ve been fairly vocal in support of Park51/Cordoba Initiative’s right to build their center, but taxpayer-guaranteed bonds are a dealbreaker for me.

So, they shouldn’t be extended the same opportunity as any other place of worship?

188

RogueOne Sat, Aug 28, 2010 4:34:12am

re: #10 Killgore Trout

Tax laws allow such funding for religiously affiliated non-profits if they can prove the facility will benefit the general public and their religious activities are funded separately.

I’m wondering if that’s NY tax law or US federal law? Either way, the tax codes have zero business supporting the building of religious facilities. If churches/mosques/synagogues want to expand or build new facilities then let them come up with the money from their adherents.

189

thomaslknapp Sat, Aug 28, 2010 4:10:42pm

re: #187 tnguitarist

Yes, they should be extended the same opportunity as any other place of worship — and that opportunity should not extend to being allowed, as Jefferson put it, “to pick my pocket or break my leg.”

I’ve vigorously contested the notion that building Cordoba House near “Ground Zero” breaks anyone’s leg, and it bugs me to find out that it may pick people’s pockets.

190

elbruce Sat, Aug 28, 2010 4:51:49pm

re: #186 thomaslknapp

I’ve been fairly vocal in support of Park51/Cordoba Initiative’s right to build their center, but taxpayer-guaranteed bonds are a dealbreaker for me.

If you believe that we should change the law to disallow all religiously oriented groups from getting taxpayer-guaranteed bonds, then we can have that discussion. In fact, I’d support it.

191

jaydub Mon, Aug 30, 2010 9:18:22am

If they could say they’re not accepting Saudi money I’d rest a bit easier. Not that I’m on the fence about this topic. They’re welcome to build their center anywhere they choose IMO.

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