GOP Candidate Defends Waffen SS

WingnutsOctober 2010 • Views: 5,290

Republican candidate Rich Iott apparently never learned the First Rule of Holes: when you’re in one, stop digging.

Rich Iott Defends Nazis He Dresses Up As: ‘They Were Doing What They Thought Was Right’.

Ohio Congressional candidate Rich Iott got grilled by Anderson Cooper last night on his rather unusual hobby of dressing up as a member of the 5th SS Wiking Panzer Division, a unit in the German army during World War II.

Iott defended the members of the unit, who he said “wanted to fight what they saw as a bigger threat to them than Germany,” so they joined up with the Nazis to fight the eastern front of the war against Soviet forces. “I don’t think we can sit here and judge that today. We weren’t there the time they made those decisions,” he said.

Iott called “what happened in Germany during the second World War one of “the low points in human history,” but defended the Wiking Division when Cooper referred to them as collaborators: “I don’t know that I would put that label on them. They were doing what they thought was right for their country. And they were going out and fighting what they thought was a bigger, you know, a bigger evil.”

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87 comments

Wozza Matter? Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:36:21am

Republican candidate Rich Iott apparently never learned the First Rule of Holes: when you’re in one, stop digging.

Sir - i beg a correction

“the First Rule of Holes - you do not talk about holes”

jamesfirecat Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:37:17am

“I don’t think we can sit here and judge that today. We weren’t there the time they made those decisions,”

///Also it would be horribly wrong of us to try and judge those poor pathetic southern gentlemen who were going to have their ~~slaves~~ property unlawfully ~~freed~~ stolen from them by the federal government! That was over a hundred years ago, different time and place, who are we to judge?

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:37:19am

This is the flip side of that horrible old lefty-folk song where the girl warbles about the Soviet troops, and sings, ‘they died fighting on our side, you know’.

Just fighting COMMUNISM is not enough to get a pass on the slaughter of civilians, and the support of a monstrosity like the Third Reich. It just isn’t. Sorry ‘bout that.

wrenchwench Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:37:54am

“I don’t think we can judge them today…”

Guess what, Mr. Iott. Those who do think we can judge them today also get to judge you.

Bubblehead II Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:39:21am

Sorry for going OT right off the bat, but the 17th miner is about to be pulled out of the mine.

lawhawk Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:39:27am

They were…

They were doing what they thought was right for their country. And they were going out and fighting what they thought was a bigger, you know, a bigger evil.”

A bigger evil eh? You mean like rounding up and murdering Jews that happened to cross their path?

Or that among those who served in this unit was none other than the Doctor of Death - Josef Mengele. After he was injured in combat, he later gained the notoriety as the doctor at Auschwitz/Birkenau that experimented on Jews and sorted incoming Jews - those that would go directly to the gas chambers and those that would linger on a wee bit longer in the camps.

Obdicut Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:39:29am

Yes. The SS were doing what they thought was right. Which was being fervent Nazis, killing Jews, Slavs, and everyone else they considered subhuman.

I figured this was coming, since he earlier stated that the SS were fighting for freedom.

Reminder: To join the Wiking SS, you had to be huge Nazi. That was the #1 requirement, ideology.

And Wiking was made up of foreign volunteers; so these weren’t Germans fighting with their compatriots, but people fighting against the very nation that had invaded or otherwise subjugated their compatriots.

Obdicut Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:40:46am

re: #7 Obdicut

Er, the last ‘fighting against’ should be ‘fighting for’. PIMF.

shutdown Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:41:39am

We can’t possibly spend a lot of time getting our dander up about Reich Idiott, can we? I mean, there really is no valid supporting argument for his “hobby”, other than that it is not illegal.

Wozza Matter? Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:42:08am

If you do not have it in you to un-equivocally condemn the SS, imho, you do not belong in public life.

Obdicut Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:42:47am

re: #9 imp_62

I’m sorry, I don’t understand what you mean.

Who can’t do what?

darthstar Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:43:07am

re: #10 wozzablog

If you do not have it in you to un-equivocally condemn the SS, imho, you do not belong in public life.

or polite society.

Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:43:26am

I blame the Jews.

shutdown Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:43:57am

re: #11 Obdicut

I’m sorry, I don’t understand what you mean.

Who can’t do what?

I forget. You are talking about two posts up; the internet moves faster than that - catch up.

General Nimrod Bodfish Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:43:57am

OT Repost: Omar Reygadas becomes the 17th miner to be rescued today! Watching on CNN’s live feed, they said that this is his 3rd time trapped in a mine! About 16 more to go!

iossarian Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:43:59am

Unbelievable. I was actually vaguely defending the guy yesterday, on the grounds that live-action wargaming could just be a hobby (“someone has to play the nazis”, etc.). I should also point out that I doing more than a little devil’s advocating.

But, “they were doing what they thought was right” is a pretty spectacular way of killing even that rather weak line of defense.

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:45:35am

re: #9 imp_62

We can’t possibly spend a lot of time getting our dander up about Reich Idiott, can we? I mean, there really is no valid supporting argument for his “hobby”, other than that it is not illegal.

I wouldn’t mind the hobby itself. He just keeps digging in deeper with his dumbassery.

Seriously, “I play the villain,” is good enough for me. “I’ve thought of reasons why they’re not so bad,” is not.

shutdown Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:45:36am

re: #16 iossarian

Unbelievable. I was actually vaguely defending the guy yesterday, on the grounds that live-action wargaming could just be a hobby (“someone has to play the nazis”, etc.). I should also point out that I doing more than a little devil’s advocating.

But, “they were doing what they thought was right” is a pretty spectacular way of killing even that rather weak line of defense.

Exactly. Saying you like the spiffy uniforms better than the Red Army coarse wool is one thing; stepping up to defend these animals is off the scope.

rwdflynavy Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:47:23am

re: #13 Cannadian Club Akbar

I blame the Jews.

How I wish I had more updings for your comedic genius!

RogueOne Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:47:45am

re: #16 iossarian

Unbelievable. I was actually vaguely defending the guy yesterday, on the grounds that live-action wargaming could just be a hobby (“someone has to play the nazis”, etc.). I should also point out that I doing more than a little devil’s advocating.

But, “they were doing what they thought was right” is a pretty spectacular way of killing even that rather weak line of defense.

I think he took the Jerry Brown School of Etiquette course “How to make a bad situation worse!”

darthstar Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:47:55am

If he keeps up this line of argument, he’s going to need one of these to get himself out of the hole he’s digging.

Gus Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:47:56am

Rich Iott. Waffen (Wiking) SS apologist and soft porn producer — or something on the latter. Where has the GOP been looking for candidates this year?

Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:48:50am

re: #22 Gus 802

Rich Iott. Waffen (Wiking) SS apologist and soft porn producer — or something on the latter. Where has the GOP been looking for candidates this year?

Soft porn pisses me off.

Winny Spencer Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:48:58am

An ignoramus expressing the worn-out nonsense sentiment that Nazi-Germany was less of a threat (to whom?) than the Soviet Union.
He even uses “Germany” instead of “Nazi-Germany”, go figure.

History has disproved your revisionist garbage, Iott.

I think what Obdicut wrote the other day is right. Only the Finns are justified in using that as a defense of their actions during the war.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:49:34am

re: #17 SanFranciscoZionist

I wouldn’t mind the hobby itself. He just keeps digging in deeper with his dumbassery.

Seriously, “I play the villain,” is good enough for me. “I’ve thought of reasons why they’re not so bad,” is not.

The reenactors I saw two summers ago had that reason.

“We play the villains because there would be no reenactments without somebody being willing to be the Germans. We don’t agree with the Nazi philosophies.”

They had actually originally been an American group, but switched because there weren’t enough “Germans” to hold a reenactment. The weird part is that the old base where the reenactment is held was only ever attacked by Japanese, from an off-shore boat.

jamesfirecat Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:49:41am

re: #9 imp_62

We can’t possibly spend a lot of time getting our dander up about Reich Idiott, can we? I mean, there really is no valid supporting argument for his “hobby”, other than that it is not illegal.

I was willing to leave him as odd, quirky but mostly harmless, but his stance on how we can’t judge the nazis, if that is what he seriously believes, shows him to be a Moral Relativist of the highest order who is unfit for such a lofty realm of public service.

RogueOne Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:49:46am

re: #22 Gus 802

Rich Iott. Waffen (Wiking) SS apologist and soft porn producer — or something on the latter. Where has the GOP been looking for candidates this year?

That brings up an interesting point I’ve been noticing in the Conn. race. When did the Dems become the party of family values? I blame tipper gore.

shutdown Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:49:50am

re: #13 Cannadian Club Akbar

I blame the Jews.

So do I, because as a good Jewish boy I get to pin everything on my Mother.

shutdown Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:50:43am

re: #23 Cannadian Club Akbar

Soft porn ~~pisses~~ pees me off.

FTFY to get a R rating.

Gus Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:51:03am

re: #27 RogueOne

That brings up an interesting point I’ve been noticing in the Conn. race. When did the Dems become the party of family values? I blame tipper gore.

William F. Buckley and Frank Zappa are having a conversation as we type.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:51:45am

re: #28 imp_62

So do I, because as a good Jewish boy I get to pin everything on my Mother.

Your mother? Your mother?

The one who made you soup when you were sick, who endured swollen feet for your, who walked the floor with you and helped you with your homework and kissed your owies and made them better when you fell?

Her?

shutdown Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:52:16am

re: #21 darthstar

If he keeps up this line of argument, he’s going to need one of these to get himself out of the hole he’s digging.

I’d like to see Reich heading the opposite direction, though.

iossarian Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:52:21am

re: #31 EmmmieG

Your mother? Your mother?

The one who made you soup when you were sick, who endured swollen feet for your, who walked the floor with you and helped you with your homework and kissed your owies and made them better when you fell?

Her?

Eat, eat.

APox Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:52:52am

Good clip on mediamatters by Glenn beck…. He and his son dress up as star wars characters, Glenn acts the role of darth vader because there are two sides to every war, and he’s just playing his part! Darth vader = group of Nazis that killed millions of Jews! Obviously.

shutdown Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:53:15am

re: #31 EmmmieG

Your mother? Your mother?

The one who made you soup when you were sick, who endured swollen feet for your, who walked the floor with you and helped you with your homework and kissed your owies and made them better when you fell?

Her?

Dammit. Now I have to call her and apologize. Thanks for nothing, Emmie.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:53:42am

re: #35 imp_62

Dammit. Now I have to call her and apologize. Thanks for nothing, Emmie.

You needed to call her soon anyway.

Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:53:51am

re: #34 APox

Good clip on mediamatters by Glenn beck… He and his son dress up as star wars characters, Glenn acts the role of darth vader because there are two sides to every war, and he’s just playing his part! Darth vader = group of Nazis that killed millions of Jews! Obviously.

Nice stretch.

reloadingisnotahobby Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:54:37am

re: #31 EmmmieG
Travel Agent for Guilt Trips???
Yup! That’s the one!!

Eclectic Infidel Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:55:02am

The GOP is really, really going out of its way to provide the Democrats some of the best political fodder ever.

I’d love to know what sane republicans think of all this.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:55:31am

They could re-coup a lot of the money here by putting this capsule on a tour and charging $5 to stand inside it for a minute.

shutdown Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:55:32am

re: #34 APox

Good clip on mediamatters by Glenn beck… He and his son dress up as star wars characters, Glenn acts the role of darth vader because there are two sides to every war, and he’s just playing his part! Darth vader = group of Nazis that killed millions of Jews! Obviously.

I’m sorry. It’s just weird. If I suggested to my son that we get involved with costume-wearing re-enacters or Star Wars conventioneers, he would have me committed. Get real lives and go out and have real, unique experiences.

Shiplord Kirel Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:57:20am

re: #9 imp_62

We can’t possibly spend a lot of time getting our dander up about Reich Idiott, can we? I mean, there really is no valid supporting argument for his “hobby”, other than that it is not illegal.

I think the hobby itself is quite defensible as a matter of historical interest, even if the dress-up re-enactment thing isn’t my cup of tea. Contrast Iott’s apologetics with these statements from various historical websites:
Luftwaffe Resource Group

The purpose of this page is to provide a resource that covers all aspects of the Luftwaffe (German Air Force) from 1935 to the present. This page is non-political and does not condone ANY political party, since politics and politicians are the leading causes of warfare and death. This page is maintained by volunteers and will be expanded as time permits.

V-2 Rocket.com

General Walter Dornberger and German rocket scientist Wernher von Braun were two men with a vision. The drive, energy and resourcefulness of Dornberger, mated with the ingenuity and passion of von Braun, created one of the greatest technological achievements of this century. The fact that this achievement was the product of the ruthless regime of Nazi Germany—and the fact that many thousands of people died as a result of its production and deployment—taint the image of what otherwise would be considered a monumental technological triumph.
This is the A-4/V-2 Resource Site. It is devoted to one of the most awesome weapons of WWII - the V-2 rocket. The V-2 or Aggregat 4, was the first long range ballistic missile to be actively used in combat. This huge German rocket hurtled a one-ton warhead 50 miles high and hundreds of miles down range to its target. This site will try to give you an accurate account of the design, production and combat deployment of this weapon during World War 2.

In an attempt to build a historical record, this website will exclude any political agendas. This website does not support any ideology of Nazi Germany.

rwdflynavy Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:57:31am

re: #31 EmmmieG

Your mother? Your mother?

The one who made you soup when you were sick, who endured swollen feet for your, who walked the floor with you and helped you with your homework and kissed your owies and made them better when you fell?

Her?

Our pastor, who was raised Jewish once stopped a person who was trying to give him a guilt trip. “Are you trying to make me feel guilty? You are an amateur, I HAD A JEWISH MOTHER!”

RogueOne Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:58:09am

re: #39 eclectic infidel

The GOP is really, really going out of its way to provide the Democrats some of the best political fodder ever.

I’d love to know what sane republicans think of all this.

They’re keeping their mouths shut since they’re about to be in the majority.

shutdown Wed, Oct 13, 2010 9:58:12am

re: #36 EmmmieG

You needed to call her soon anyway.

Let me tell you a story about my Mom. I have told my parents I want to come visit them (they live in Europe and split their time between a place there and Israel). Instead of saying how wonderful that is, she has kicked off an agonizing discussion about whether they should be in Europe or Israel when I visit, how it is up to me, not to worry about her, whatever makes me happy….

Obdicut Wed, Oct 13, 2010 10:00:03am

re: #44 RogueOne

They’re keeping their mouths shut since they’re about to be in the majority.

No. Sane republicans are not about to be in the majority.

It’s nice to fantasize about, but it’s not reality.

reloadingisnotahobby Wed, Oct 13, 2010 10:00:52am

re: #41 imp_62
Define unique experiences!
I want to know that I’m doing right!
fishing,hunting,hiking,camping,boating getting him his first hooker…etc…..
Going to Disneyland….

Eclectic Infidel Wed, Oct 13, 2010 10:01:03am

re: #13 Cannadian Club Akbar

I blame the Jews.

You’re in good company then…

///////////

Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Oct 13, 2010 10:01:14am

re: #45 imp_62

Let me tell you a story about my Mom. I have told my parents I want to come visit them (they live in Europe and split their time between a place there and Israel). Instead of saying how wonderful that is, she has kicked off an agonizing discussion about whether they should be in Europe or Israel when I visit, how it is up to me, not to worry about her, whatever makes me happy…

Oof. My mother wasn’t that good.

shutdown Wed, Oct 13, 2010 10:01:30am

re: #39 eclectic infidel

The GOP is really, really going out of its way to provide the Democrats some of the best political fodder ever.

I’d love to know what sane republicans think of all this.

If you find one, let me know. Hint: s/he is the one in the corner sitting with his arms around his knees, rocking back and forth and saying: Ronnie? Nancy? IS that you?

Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Oct 13, 2010 10:02:26am

re: #45 imp_62

Let me tell you a story about my Mom. I have told my parents I want to come visit them (they live in Europe and split their time between a place there and Israel). Instead of saying how wonderful that is, she has kicked off an agonizing discussion about whether they should be in Europe or Israel when I visit, how it is up to me, not to worry about her, whatever makes me happy…

Than again, the time she nearly hyperventilated when I told her I was bringing the grandbaby for a visit was pretty good.

(Third grandchild,so she was still pretty new to it. I’m pretty sure she likes my daughter better than me, but I’m good with that. If anything happens to me, my kids have backup.)

Vicious Babushka Wed, Oct 13, 2010 10:02:26am

re: #31 EmmmieG

Your mother? Your mother?

The one who made you soup when you were sick, who endured swollen feet for your, who walked the floor with you and helped you with your homework and kissed your owies and made them better when you fell?

Her?

Heh.

shutdown Wed, Oct 13, 2010 10:03:29am

re: #47 reloadingisnotahobby

Define unique experiences!
I want to know that I’m doing right!
fishing,hunting,hiking,camping,boating getting him his first hooker…etc…
Going to Disneyland…

“unique” defined as “distinctive”, not necessarily as “the only one of its kind”.

Walter L. Newton Wed, Oct 13, 2010 10:04:50am

Let’s see what the Wiking were doing when “they were going out and fighting what they thought was a bigger, you know, a bigger evil.”

In addition historian Eleonore Lappin from the Institute for the History of Jews in Austria has documented several cases of war crimes committed by members of the 5 SS Division Wiking in her work The Death Marches of Hungarian Jews Through Austria in the Spring of 1945.[9]

On March 28, 1945, eighty Jews from evacuation column, though fit for the journey, were shot by three members of the Waffen SS division Wiking and five military policemen. On April 4, twenty members of another column that left Graz tried to escape near Eggenfeld, not far from Gratkorn. Soldiers from the 5 SS Division Wiking that were temporarily stationed there apprehended them in the forest near Mt. Eggenfeld and then herded them in a gully, where they were shot. On April 7 and 11, 1945 members of the division executed another eighteen escaped prisoners.[9]

Doesn’t sound very defensible to me. But, maybe I don’t understand Rich Iott? Perhaps Rich Iott doesn’t understand history?

RogueOne Wed, Oct 13, 2010 10:05:06am

re: #46 Obdicut

No. Sane republicans are not about to be in the majority.

It’s nice to fantasize about, but it’s not reality.

Admit it, it only hurts for a little while. The quicker you move past the “shock and denial” phase the quicker you can move your way through to the “acceptance” stage.

shutdown Wed, Oct 13, 2010 10:05:53am

re: #30 Gus 802

William F. Buckley and Frank Zappa are having a conversation as we type.

//

Two people whose intellect and general humanity is sorely missed on this temporal plane.

Winny Spencer Wed, Oct 13, 2010 10:08:17am

God forgive me, but that last sentence of Iott’s makes me want to commit atrocities. It’s such a blatently disingenuous piece of nazi-apologetic revisionist rubbish.

As if the most fervent and committed Nazis made a rational decision to fight a supposedly greater enemy to their countries’ freedoms, while their own countries were being trampled under the jackboot of the Hun….

nines09 Wed, Oct 13, 2010 10:12:37am

So he wants to dress up and be a Nazi. Fine. Stay out of public office and don’t be an apologist for murderers.
Twit.

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 13, 2010 10:13:16am

re: #25 EmmmieG

The reenactors I saw two summers ago had that reason.

“We play the villains because there would be no reenactments without somebody being willing to be the Germans. We don’t agree with the Nazi philosophies.”

They had actually originally been an American group, but switched because there weren’t enough “Germans” to hold a reenactment. The weird part is that the old base where the reenactment is held was only ever attacked by Japanese, from an off-shore boat.

Do they have Japanese reenactment units? My dad is only interested in the Eastern Front, so I never see them mentioned.

Well, he’s interested in the Pacific, but Russians are his love.

Obdicut Wed, Oct 13, 2010 10:13:42am

re: #55 RogueOne

Admit it, it only hurts for a little while. The quicker you move past the “shock and denial” phase the quicker you can move your way through to the “acceptance” stage.

What are you talking about?

I’m not in any denial that the GOP is going to make major gains in November.

You, however, seem to be stuck in a huge pit of denial about what the GOP has become.

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 13, 2010 10:15:05am

re: #39 eclectic infidel

The GOP is really, really going out of its way to provide the Democrats some of the best political fodder ever.

I’d love to know what sane republicans think of all this.

Most of the ones I know are here, and they’re just flinching a lot and waiting for better times ahead.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Oct 13, 2010 10:17:41am

re: #59 SanFranciscoZionist

Do they have Japanese reenactment units? My dad is only interested in the Eastern Front, so I never see them mentioned.

Well, he’s interested in the Pacific, but Russians are his love.

A true reenactment would be boring. They would just sit in a boat and lob fake bombs at the coast.

RogueOne Wed, Oct 13, 2010 10:18:19am

re: #60 Obdicut

What are you talking about?

I’m not in any denial that the GOP is going to make major gains in November.

You, however, seem to be stuck in a huge pit of denial about what the GOP has become.

Good! You’ve moved up to the anger phase. In a couple weeks when you’re going through the Depression and Sorrow phase just remember there are people out here who love you and just want to see you get better. I’m rooting for you man.

TedStriker Wed, Oct 13, 2010 10:18:54am

I hate Ohio Nazis…

/apologies to Jake Blues

Nick Schroeder Wed, Oct 13, 2010 10:19:20am

This is pretty mind blowing. When this story first started to come out, I thought to myself “Oh come on, when you do a reenactment, you need SOMEBODY to play the bad guy… this is probably harmless”.

Well, shame on me for my momentary lapse of judgment in giving a Republican candidate the benefit of the doubt when it comes to not being a complete idiot. I would have thought someone a fool if they bet me that days later the guy would be on national television ACTUALLY DEFENDING NAZIS as ‘doing what they thought was right’. Jesus. Tapdancing. Christ.

Obdicut Wed, Oct 13, 2010 10:20:02am

re: #63 RogueOne

Good! You’ve moved up to the anger phase. In a couple weeks when you’re going through the Depression and Sorrow phase just remember there are people out here who love you and just want to see you get better. I’m rooting for you man.

The amount of time you spend fantasizing about my emotions is actually creepy. Why do you need to believe that other people are feeling or thinking certain things?

RogueOne Wed, Oct 13, 2010 10:23:47am

re: #66 Obdicut

It will get better, right now your anger won’t let you see the humor of the situation. In a few months you’ll be back to normal.

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 13, 2010 10:24:15am

re: #63 RogueOne

Good! You’ve moved up to the anger phase. In a couple weeks when you’re going through the Depression and Sorrow phase just remember there are people out here who love you and just want to see you get better. I’m rooting for you man.

Heh. Just because some people here damn near went crazy when Obama was elected doesn’t mean that everyone reacts to political downturns with the same—intensity.

Obdicut Wed, Oct 13, 2010 10:25:09am

re: #67 RogueOne

I’m not in the least bit angry, though, Rogue. That you think I am is, sincerely, creepy. Why would you rather engage with a fantasy version of what you think I am than my actual self?

If all you’re going to do is make up what other people are thinking and feeling, no matter how much it deviates from reality, why even bother talking to other people? Why not just smile smugly to yourself as you think about how much smarter you are than everyone?

Obdicut Wed, Oct 13, 2010 10:26:49am

re: #68 SanFranciscoZionist

If I thought better of the Democrats than I do, I might be angry. If I thought that this trend would continue, I might be angry.

But I don’t.

Lidane Wed, Oct 13, 2010 10:27:44am

“I don’t think we can sit here and judge that today. We weren’t there the time they made those decisions,” he said.

Does this tool realize that his logic could exonerate any evil in the world? I mean, we weren’t there when Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge decided to kill millions of Cambodians. We can’t judge that decision.

What an idiot. =P

mikhailtheplumber Wed, Oct 13, 2010 10:28:47am

re: #71 Lidane

Does this tool realize that his logic could exonerate any evil in the world? I mean, we weren’t there when Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge decided to kill millions of Cambodians. We can’t judge that decision.

What an idiot. =P

Right, and Pol Pot thought he was doing the best for his nation!

So let’s dress up as him and make genocide reenactments!

Shiplord Kirel Wed, Oct 13, 2010 10:40:17am

I’ve long had an interest in one of the relatively few Nazi super-weapons that actually lived up to its billing (and then some): The A-4/V-2 rocket.
Myself, about the V-2:
9/27/2009

The one really monumental triumph of Nazi-era technology, the V-2 rocket is badly tainted by the atrocities associated with its production and deployment.
It has been said that one slave worker died for every V-2 completed and that more people were killed making it than were killed by it.
Still, it was quite a remarkable device; a true ballistic missile, the first human made object to reach into space, and the direct ancestor of the Saturn rockets that put men on the Moon.

British historian Bill Gunston had perhaps the best summary of this phenomenal leap forward:

“(V-2 was) not merely ahead of all other missiles but father out in front than any single weapon has ever been in all history…
…probably the most futuristic weapon in history in that in structure, aerodynamics, propulsion, guidance, troop deployment, logistics, and the problems posed to the defense, it reached out into totally uncharted regions and found workable answers. This is not to suggest that it was cost/effective or even of real value to Nazi German. It did not stave off that country’s defeat; by diverting resources it may even have hastened it. But it was the outstanding example of a weapon to which there was absolutely no answer.”
The Illustrated Encyclopedia of the World’s Rockets and Missiles, 1977

It is only in the 21st century that we have deployed systems that would have been capable of intercepting the V-2. At the time, it might as well have been a thunderbolt from on high.

Oddly enough, the V-2 gets short shrift from what I call the Germanophile Technology Cult (History Channel, military hobbyists, etc.). They would rather focus on experimental or speculative aircraft and tanks that were never operational and that often had unmentioned allied counterparts anyway.
When you look at the V-2, you have to stare the ugly facts right in the face. This isn’t nearly as much fun as fantasizing about supersonice Nazi rocket aces in 1946.
Speaking of unmentioned counterparts, everyone who has read a model plane catalog knows about the German rocket fighter, the ME-163. But how many of you knew that the US had a rocket -powered fighter during World War 2? Northrop XP-79. This was not only a rocket, it was a flying wing, it had a magnesium structure, and the pilot lay flat on his stomach in the nose. If this were a German project, the ~~Hitler~~ History Channel would probably devote a whole week of programming to it.

jamesfirecat Wed, Oct 13, 2010 10:58:12am

re: #44 RogueOne

They’re keeping their mouths shut since they’re about to be in the majority.

“Sane Republican” are about to be in the majority?

How do you figure?

Amory Blaine Wed, Oct 13, 2010 11:13:00am

re: #74 jamesfirecat

“Sane Republican” are about to be in the majority?

How do you figure?

You know. the ones who kneel before Rush Limbaugh, those sane republicans.

andydp Wed, Oct 13, 2010 11:38:42am

I didn’t get to read all the comments but there is a major difference between the Waffen SS and the Wermacht. The biggest of which was the fact you had to be in the Nazi Party to be a member of the SS.

I can understand the Wermacht Soldier doing his duty for the Fatherland as a draftee. I can’t excuse portraying those who volunteered to be in the Waffen SS. Didn’t the Waffen SS participate in the murder of US POWs during the Battle of the Bulge ?

Yuppieskum Wed, Oct 13, 2010 11:54:22am

It’s a little-known historical “fact” that the Waffen SS was just a horribly-misunderstood group of lonely boys who mothers didn’t love them. Really, they were just looking for mother-surrogates…and things just got a wee bit out of hand….

Yashmak Wed, Oct 13, 2010 12:59:23pm

Sweet. As long as I think something is right, it’s wrong of anyone to ever judge me for it.

Good to know, Mr. Iott.

For cryin’ out loud, even the GERMANS acknowledge that the nazis were evil-craziness.

Yashmak Wed, Oct 13, 2010 1:07:55pm

re: #73 Shiplord Kirel

The US also had a jet powered fighter (as did the British) in the late war…but the US example was entirely unimpressive performance-wise, and never saw service except as a test-bed. The British jet was used operationally in small numbers to shoot down V-1’s.

I suspect the Germanophile mind-set you speak of is based largely on the combat record of the machines. It’s the very effectiveness of the few advanced machines that the Germans did field against the allies, which drives these folks to hypothesize about what other prototype German machines might have accomplished. Had certain allied machines provided a similar combat contribution, I suspect there’d be more interest in the exotic machines the allies were developing late-war as well.

philosophus invidius Wed, Oct 13, 2010 1:10:44pm

Somehow I think that they wouldn’t have thought of the Soviet units as idealists fighting for freedom.

Shiplord Kirel Wed, Oct 13, 2010 2:27:38pm

re: #79 Yashmak

The US also had a jet powered fighter (as did the British) in the late war…but the US example was entirely unimpressive performance-wise, and never saw service except as a test-bed. The British jet was used operationally in small numbers to shoot down V-1’s.

I suspect the Germanophile mind-set you speak of is based largely on the combat record of the machines. It’s the very effectiveness of the few advanced machines that the Germans did field against the allies, which drives these folks to hypothesize about what other prototype German machines might have accomplished. Had certain allied machines provided a similar combat contribution, I suspect there’d be more interest in the exotic machines the allies were developing late-war as well.

The US had two jet fighters in service by the end of the war. You are thinking of the early one, the P-59, which flew less than a year after Pearl Harbor and was used as a trainer because of its poor performance. The Lockheed P-80, which flew early in 1944, was a whole different animal and both outperformed and out-maneuvered the German Me-262. The History Channel says otherwise but more factual peer-reviewed data support my case. P-80s were less than a week from combat operations against Japan when the Pacific War ended. The P-80 (renamed F-80 in 1948) went on to a distinguished combat record in Korea. It is astounding that so few people know this but know all about German jets.
The British Gloster Meteor, flown in 1943, went through an extensive process of evolution during the war. Early models, used against V-1s, were no better than the P-59 but the later ones were much better. Meteor IIIs saw combat in Belgium before the end of the war, and the Mark IV (max speed 585 mph) was entering service by the time Japan surrendered. The Meteors were not allowed to overfly enemy territory until the final few days of the war, to prevent the capture of their engine technology. Allied jet engines at that stage had more than 10 times the overhaul life of the German jets. Fully operational Meteors and P-80s would have had a great role in the invasion of Japan.

Shiplord Kirel Wed, Oct 13, 2010 2:29:24pm

re: #79 Yashmak

It’s also worth noting that allied jets would almost certainly have been thrown into the fight a lot earlier if the allies had been in as desperate a position as the Germans.

Bob Levin Wed, Oct 13, 2010 4:22:36pm

I just watched the video, and…oy. I don’t think he’d given this a moment’s thought until Cooper brought it up. And that’s how a person joins the Nazi Party, and ends up in the Waffen SS. There’s no there in there. He’s a human being running on empty. There’s no spark, like Alec Guiness in The Bridge Over the River Kwai, ”My Gd what have I done?”. He isn’t capable of that moment, in my opinion.

I can’t wait to hear his empty comment on this tomorrow.

Haikugoalie Wed, Oct 13, 2010 7:01:58pm

Idiot Iott
this ignorant dumb schmuck is
perfect for congress?

haikugoalie Wed, Oct 13, 2010 7:09:20pm

Iott does not know
the Viking division swore
an oath to Hitler?

Even the SS
combat units committed
massive sick war crimes

Russians always shot
every captured SS
they all deserved it

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Thu, Oct 14, 2010 9:11:28am

re: #55 RogueOne

Admit it, it only hurts for a little while. The quicker you move past the “shock and denial” phase the quicker you can move your way through to the “acceptance” stage.

You know what it actually says in this thread, right?

GOP candidate defends Waffen SS

It’s kind of a thing!

Yashmak Thu, Oct 14, 2010 12:15:00pm

Allied jet engines at that stage had more than 10 times the overhaul life of the German jets.

- Shiplord Kirel

Of course they did…the allied jet engines weren’t assembled in large part by slave labor, nor was the assembly hampered by unavailability of high quality alloys or aerial bombardment :)

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