Here’s newly elected Republican Senator Rand Paul, sucking up to the craziest talk show host in America, Alex Jones.
And nobody seems to care.
1 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:02:11pm |
And nobody seems to care.
Welcome to Tea Party Nation.
| 2 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:05:21pm |
I care, but I already knew Luap Dnar was nuts so this does not surprise me.
| 3 |
Transfromnation Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:06:16pm |
I'm sure, somewhere, the GOP has a flowchart on how to address controversy.
1. Ignore it
2. Keep ignoring it
3. If it can't be ignored, deny it
4. If you can't deny it, play it down
5. If you can't play it down, spin it
6. If it can't spin it, blame someone else
7. If you can't blame someone else, return to step one
| 4 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:08:30pm |
re: #1 Killgore Trout
Welcome to Tea Party Nation.
A tea bag in every pot, and a troofer meeting in every garage.
| 6 |
Kragar Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:08:58pm |
| 7 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:10:30pm |
re: #3 Transfromnation
I'm sure, somewhere, the GOP has a flowchart on how to address controversy.
1. Ignore it
2. Keep ignoring it
3. If it can't be ignored, deny it
4. If you can't deny it, play it down
5. If you can't play it down, spin it
6. If it can't spin it, blame someone else
7. If you can't blame someone else, return to step one
I think both parties have that chart.
| 8 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:10:33pm |
re: #3 Transfromnation
Shall we call that "Occam's Carousel"?
| 9 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:10:35pm |
re: #6 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
OH! DANCING WITH THE STARS IS ON!
and the winner is......the Speaker of the HOUSE!!!
give it up give it up!
| 10 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:11:23pm |
re: #7 Dark_Falcon
I think both parties have that chart.
Having worked with members of each party when I was a gubmint "worker", I can say that's true.
| 11 |
FreedomMoon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:16:00pm |
What exactly would an audit of the Fed include? Is it just a euphemism for dismantling the Central Bank? Or is it just publishing a whole bunch of details of what they do, and then hopefully if the findings scare us we'll strip their power? I know libertarians want to see an end of the Fed, thus Ron Paul's End the Fed book, but how does an audit bring them closer to achieving that. Isn't everything they do already public knowledge? Or would an audit, or auditing committee actually have authority in weakening the Fed's influence on our currency?
| 12 |
jaunte Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:17:57pm |
re: #11 tacuba14
It's already audited. [Link: www.ny.frb.org...]
The Pauls just want more direct political control over the Fed's decisions.
| 13 |
AsTheWormTurns Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:17:58pm |
WikiLeaks: Texas Company Helped Pimp Little Boys To Stoned Afghan Cops
Just another useless leak that serve no purpose besides advancing Wikileaks goal of hurting America.
//
| 15 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:19:50pm |
re: #13 AsTheWormTurns
Pretty bold first comment, noob. Tell us about yourself.
| 16 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:20:33pm |
re: #15 Dark_Falcon
Pretty bold first comment, noob. Tell us about yourself.
Dark be nice, he's a hatchling not a noob...
| 17 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:21:13pm |
re: #13 AsTheWormTurns
You see, ATWT, as I wrote several times here, I think leaking of this and the like cables (dealing with human rights etc.) are justified. These are what, 0.01% of all the leaked cables? How do you justify the leaking of the rest?
| 18 |
Kragar Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:21:16pm |
| 19 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:22:35pm |
re: #11 tacuba14
What exactly would an audit of the Fed include? Is it just a euphemism for dismantling the Central Bank? Or is it just publishing a whole bunch of details of what they do, and then hopefully if the findings scare us we'll strip their power? I know libertarians want to see an end of the Fed, thus Ron Paul's End the Fed book, but how does an audit bring them closer to achieving that. Isn't everything they do already public knowledge? Or would an audit, or auditing committee actually have authority in weakening the Fed's influence on our currency?
it means nothing in any context...the fed is already audited...it's a smokescreen and an amateur one at that....there will be no gold standard, no revolution, no new world order...it's all fantasy to get your face in the news
| 20 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:23:31pm |
If PrisonPlanet is the only outlet that will give your voice airtime, of the "go to" outlet of your choice, you've got some serious fuckin' mental problems, and there is likely something very wrong with your message and agenda.
| 21 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:23:34pm |
| 23 |
Kragar Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:25:36pm |
| 24 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:25:42pm |
re: #21 albusteve
wtf?
When someone comes on with a bold comment as their very first post, it raises warning flags.
| 25 |
FreedomMoon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:26:33pm |
I haven't exhaustively researched it, but in all the arguments I've heard I haven't heard much about the existing auditing process. When the Paul family make their shtick about having an audit, they speak with superlatives as if the Central Bank acted as a rouge, lone cabal determined to undermine our sovereignty, with unlimited power and no checks. I guess I shouldn't be surprised by their deceitful tactics (talking about the Paul and Co.)
| 26 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:26:39pm |
re: #24 Dark_Falcon
When someone comes on with a bold comment as their very first post, it raises warning flags.
speak for yourself...you sound a bit noided there...a post is a post
| 27 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:26:59pm |
re: #24 Dark_Falcon
When someone comes on with a bold comment as their very first post, it raises warning flags.
Yes, we should be very suspicious of anyone who doesn't agree completely and immediately with us. /
| 28 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:27:51pm |
re: #27 Fozzie Bear
Yes, we should be very suspicious of anyone who doesn't agree completely and immediately with us. /
DF said anything about "agreement"?
| 29 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:28:16pm |
| 30 |
Kragar Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:29:09pm |
re: #27 Fozzie Bear
Yes, we should be very suspicious of anyone who doesn't agree completely and immediately with us. /
I'm more perturbed by anyone who makes an account and sits on it for weeks without a peep.
| 31 |
FreedomMoon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:30:26pm |
re: #30 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I'm more perturbed by anyone who makes an account and sits on it for weeks without a peep.
That may be a sleight to me, I think I sat on my account for more than two years before actually commenting for the first time, maybe 2 and 1/2.
| 32 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:30:32pm |
re: #22 Varek Raith
Good evening, infidels.
;)
Hello, Varek. We earlier found out that those pro-Wikileaks hackers were using a weapon called a Low Orbit Ion Cannon. I was able to counter them, though, with shield generators specially modified to block ion bursts. Once so equipped, I was able to take my Super Star Destroyer into orbit over their hidden base and bombard it to rubble with my turbolaser batteries. I did capture the scientists who designed the modifications for the cannons, though. Did you bring the interrogation droids?
/Having some Star Wars fun with the Ion Cannon meme
| 33 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:30:57pm |
re: #30 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I'm more perturbed by anyone who makes an account and sits on it for weeks without a peep.
why?...what business is it of yours?....let's try to be open minded and tolerant
| 34 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:31:25pm |
re: #30 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I'm more perturbed by anyone who makes an account and sits on it for weeks without a peep.
Why?
| 35 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:31:59pm |
re: #30 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I'm more perturbed by anyone who makes an account and sits on it for weeks without a peep.
Meh, could have just wanted to lurk for a while to get familiar with the board and those on it before posting.
That said as you guys have probably noticed I'm a helplessly nieve liberal so we'll just have to wait and see how/if "the worm turns" yet again...
| 36 |
Alexzander Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:32:13pm |
Since we already raised wikileaks again, I'll link to this short documentary on Wikileaks that is floating around:
WikiRebels.
| 37 |
jaunte Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:32:18pm |
re: #25 tacuba14
The GAO auditors aren't enough for the Paul fambly, apparently because so far the GAO hasn't forced us to go back on the gold standard.
| 38 |
Kragar Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:32:32pm |
re: #33 albusteve
why?...what business is it of yours?...let's try to be open minded and tolerant
Not a problem, just a warning sign, to be factored in to other data as it becomes available.
| 39 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:33:31pm |
re: #35 jamesfirecat
Meh, could have just wanted to lurk for a while to get familiar with the board and those on it before posting.
That said as you guys have probably noticed I'm a helplessly nieve liberal so we'll just have to wait and see how/if "the worm turns" yet again...
Well, I haven't made any judgments and won't till he posts again.
| 40 |
AsTheWormTurns Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:33:53pm |
re: #17 Sergey Romanov
Sure, not all of the leaks are as significant as that one and likely not even worth publishing. And Wikileaks is probably doing such leaks a disservice by publishing them along with ones that are more or less inconsequential. But the fact that many in the media and elsewhere are painting them as closer to a terrorist cell instead of a press organization seems ultimately far more dangerous.
| 41 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:35:20pm |
re: #40 AsTheWormTurns
Should have said so at the start ;-) I think there is a healthy range of opinions in the media on this issue.
| 42 |
Steevlak Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:36:38pm |
I really like Alex's "serious listening" face.
| 43 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:36:57pm |
re: #38 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Not a problem, just a warning sign, to be factored in to other data as it becomes available.
and here I thought you were not a cyborg....shields up!
| 44 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:37:09pm |
| 45 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:37:41pm |
re: #38 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Not a problem, just a warning sign, to be factored in to other data as it becomes available.
Wait till you can see the whites of their eyes.
| 46 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:38:16pm |
re: #44 Slumbering Behemoth
Press organization? Ha!
Hahahahaha!
Just to play Assange's advocate, what does a place have to do to qualify as a press organization?
| 47 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:38:27pm |
re: #40 AsTheWormTurns
Sure, not all of the leaks are as significant as that one and likely not even worth publishing. And Wikileaks is probably doing such leaks a disservice by publishing them along with ones that are more or less inconsequential. But the fact that many in the media and elsewhere are painting them as closer to a terrorist cell instead of a press organization seems ultimately far more dangerous.
who's fucking who is important to Americans
| 48 |
Kragar Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:38:39pm |
re: #43 albusteve
and here I thought you were not a cyborg...shields up!
Discrete use of augemtics by trusted members of the Inquisition is a long standing practice.
| 49 |
Political Atheist Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:39:32pm |
re: #40 AsTheWormTurns
I would not them claim anything like a terror cell, but press organization is just as laughable. Propagandizing organization is close. Yellow journalism is closer but an old term, as the practice is so common. The LA Times is a press organization. Wikileaks hardly deserves the same term.
| 50 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:39:53pm |
re: #48 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Discrete use of augemtics by trusted members of the Inquisition is a long standing practice.
fear not...I have poo grenades...primitive you say?...hahaha!, step closer borg
| 51 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:39:59pm |
re: #47 albusteve
who's fucking who is important to Americans
Agreed. Wikileaks has proven itself hostile to the United States. I am hostile to it in return.
| 52 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:40:51pm |
re: #50 albusteve
fear not...I have poo grenades...primitive you say?...hahaha!, step closer borg
ZOMG, Steve's a geek!
:P
| 53 |
Kragar Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:40:55pm |
| 54 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:41:34pm |
re: #51 Dark_Falcon
Agreed. Wikileaks has proven itself hostile to the United States. I am hostile to it in return.
I am too and want to see somebody burned over this...said it on day one and nothing has changed....if nothing else, I'm a loyal American, bigtime in fact
| 55 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:41:55pm |
re: #35 jamesfirecat
Meh, could have just wanted to lurk for a while to get familiar with the board and those on it before posting.
That said as you guys have probably noticed I'm a helplessly nieve liberal so we'll just have to wait and see how/if "the worm turns" yet again...
I lurked for six months before I stuck my toe in.
| 56 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:42:59pm |
re: #46 jamesfirecat
Just to play Assange's advocate, what does a place have to do to qualify as a press organization?
Not really talking about Assange specifically, but WL in general.
Usually, press orgs don't take stolen, classified information and scatter shot it at the internet indiscriminately.
| 58 |
John Vreeland Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:43:28pm |
Maybe Luap Dnar can get interviewed for the Weekly World News, next. What a scoop for them!
| 59 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:43:59pm |
re: #56 Slumbering Behemoth
Not really talking about Assange specifically, but WL in general.
Usually, press orgs don't take stolen, classified information and scatter shot it at the internet indiscriminately.
So if they were doing a better job focusing down what they released and redacting said pages they'd count as a press org?
| 60 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:44:11pm |
re: #51 Dark_Falcon
Agreed. Wikileaks has proven itself hostile to the United States. I am hostile to it in return.
Dark, Do you think your disdain is colored by patriotism?
| 61 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:44:52pm |
| 62 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:46:07pm |
re: #60 ozbloke
Dark, Do you think your disdain is colored by patriotism?
if it was, is that a bad thing...you are on thin ice amigo
| 63 |
Kragar Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:46:35pm |
re: #61 albusteve
priceless!...so cold
where do you find this shit?
I delve into my extensive knowledge of miscellaneous errata.
| 64 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:46:54pm |
re: #60 ozbloke
Dark, Do you think your disdain is colored by patriotism?
You didn't ask me.
But I'm gonna jump in anyhow.
I would feel disdain for wikileaks regardless.
But there is no question that the depth of my dislike for wikileaks is certainly colored by my "patriotism". And I don't think that's a bad thing. If you can't feel some pride in the society of which you are a part, well - that would be a very sad situation, IMO.
| 65 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:47:32pm |
re: #60 ozbloke
Dark, Do you think your disdain is colored by patriotism?
Hell yes, it is! And I make no apologies for that fact. I am loyalty to my country, and I love it deeply. And that does slant my views at times.
| 66 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:47:48pm |
re: #55 reine.de.tout
I lurked for six months before I stuck my toe in.
Three days myself, after I registered. Mostly 'cuz I was piss drunk when I caught a registration window, and just as bonkered for a few nights after that.
Didn't want my introductory post to be a sloppy, drunken rant.
/Yet now...
| 67 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:48:34pm |
re: #62 albusteve
if it was, is that a bad thing...you are on thin ice amigo
I prefer the rule of law to patriots, there are a lot of nutters throughout this world, and a lot of these nutters are patriotic to their cause.
Why thin ice? Its a blog we can have different views.
| 68 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:49:23pm |
re: #66 Slumbering Behemoth
Three days myself, after I registered. Mostly 'cuz I was piss drunk when I caught a registration window, and just as bonkered for a few nights after that.
Didn't want my introductory post to be a sloppy, drunken rant.
/Yet now...
hehe.
I read for a looong time. And I kept thinking, gee, I could make a comment about that topic!
So I registered, and then - I was scared to death. Why? Dunno, just was.
| 69 |
Kragar Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:49:43pm |
After possessing a security clearance for over 17 years, including working on several incidents relating to breaches, I have nothing but disdain for those violate the trust placed in them and those who exploit it.
| 70 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:50:33pm |
re: #67 ozbloke
I prefer the rule of law to patriots, there are a lot of nutters throughout this world, and a lot of these nutters are patriotic to their cause.
Why thin ice? Its a blog we can have different views.
How is the rule of law inconsistent with patriotism?
| 71 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:51:26pm |
re: #59 jamesfirecat
So if they were doing a better job focusing down what they released and redacting said pages they'd count as a press org?
Not really. It's what they do, and how they do it. They are not in the business of sharing news. They are in the business of trafficking stolen, confidential material.
| 72 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:52:02pm |
re: #67 ozbloke
I prefer the rule of law to patriots, there are a lot of nutters throughout this world, and a lot of these nutters are patriotic to their cause.
Why thin ice? Its a blog we can have different views.
A lot of nutters are patriotic to their own vision of what they want their country to be, to their own misplaced ideas of what used to be that was so great.
But I think you'll probably find those of us who manage to last here are patriotic to this country because of its laws and rights and protections, as they exist today, not as we wish they were or not as we have in mind for some idealized version of the past.
| 73 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:52:12pm |
re: #70 Dark_Falcon
How is the rule of law inconsistent with patriotism?
Dark....
The rule of law is not always inconsistent with patriotism, however by the same token, there have doubtlessly been people throughout history who have allowed their patriotism get the better of them and do horrible things because of it.
I don't think you're one of those people I don't think you could become one of those people...
But like everything else, when taken to extremes, patriotism is a scary thing...
| 74 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:52:52pm |
re: #63 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I delve into my extensive knowledge of miscellaneous errata.
I errataed once or twice myself...
| 75 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:53:09pm |
re: #65 Dark_Falcon
Hell yes, it is! And I make no apologies for that fact. I am loyalty to my country, and I love it deeply. And that does slant my views at times.
Yes, I see that.
I'm pretty sure I didn't asked for an apology.
Whether its good or bad is for you to decide, I just see a lot of the against for wiki seems to stem from emotion, not the facts as we know them at this time.
If the US can bring charges that may help. I hope if that happens the court can offer a speedy trial.
| 76 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:53:16pm |
re: #72 reine.de.tout
A lot of nutters are patriotic to their own vision of what they want their country to be, to their own misplaced ideas of what used to be that was so great.
But I think you'll probably find those of us who manage to last here are patriotic to this country because of its laws and rights and protections, as they exist today, not as we wish they were or not as we have in mind for some idealized version of the past.
Bolded for truth.
| 77 |
TedStriker Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:53:37pm |
re: #7 Dark_Falcon
I think both parties have that chart.
The point of difference is that the modern GOP has it tattooed on the inside of their eyelids...
| 78 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:53:38pm |
re: #71 Slumbering Behemoth
Not really. It's what they do, and how they do it. They are not in the business of sharing news. They are in the business of trafficking stolen, confidential material.
Well then that brings me back to my original question, what would wikileaks need to be doing in order to be a new's organization in your opinion.
I'm not trying to troll you, I'm genuinely confused/unsure because with the internet and everything it used to be that a news org had to have a major set up and presses and all that to get the news out, but now anyone with a website can start posting things...
So how do we draw the line between a news org and a gossip rag?
Any suggestions?
| 79 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:54:46pm |
re: #70 Dark_Falcon
How is the rule of law inconsistent with patriotism?
You mean other than the bias it brings?
| 80 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:55:40pm |
re: #67 ozbloke
I prefer the rule of law to patriots, there are a lot of nutters throughout this world, and a lot of these nutters are patriotic to their cause.
Why thin ice? Its a blog we can have different views.
oh please...how whimpy...this is a blog of mostly American patriots..we love our country and your question is not trivial...do you assume we do not abide and respect the rule of law because we are loyal to our country?....SMACK!
| 81 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:56:19pm |
re: #79 ozbloke
You mean other than the bias it brings?
Uh...
We all have our biases.
Including you.
| 82 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:56:21pm |
re: #69 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
After possessing a security clearance for over 17 years, including working on several incidents relating to breaches, I have nothing but disdain for those violate the trust placed in them and those who exploit it.
That raises another concern about Wikileaks and LGF. Although it's a common topic of discussion in the news, Federal employees, contractors and military members might have some difficulty porting on a blog that was too friendly to Assange, Manning and Wikileaks. It;s the kind of thing that could cause some problems.
| 83 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:56:43pm |
re: #73 jamesfirecat
Dark...
The rule of law is not always inconsistent with patriotism, however by the same token, there have doubtlessly been people throughout history who have allowed their patriotism get the better of them and do horrible things because of it.
I don't think you're one of those people I don't think you could become one of those people...
But like everything else, when taken to extremes, patriotism is a scary thing...
so what?...that's not the question here all of a sudden
| 84 |
Alexzander Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:56:53pm |
re: #69 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
After possessing a security clearance for over 17 years, including working on several incidents relating to breaches, I have nothing but disdain for those violate the trust placed in them and those who exploit it.
Under all circumstances?
If the history of the 20th century has shown us anything, it is that governments can be operating in a completely legal manner that is ultimately not only unjust, but genocidal.
| 85 |
goddamnedfrank Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:57:20pm |
re: #62 albusteve
if it was, is that a bad thing...you are on thin ice amigo
Sez the guy who hates the feds with a deep passion but wants people to think he's a "bigtime" loyal American.
Cognitive dissonance, it's what's for dinner.
| 87 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:58:08pm |
re: #79 ozbloke
You mean other than the bias it brings?
The bias is only a problem if you refuse to recognize it and compensate. There are some who refuse to do that, but you will not find them here. In that spirit I am glad to have you here since you help provide that compensation.
| 89 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:58:45pm |
| 90 |
Kragar Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:58:52pm |
re: #84 Alexzander
Under all circumstances?
If the history of the 20th century has shown us anything, it is that governments can be operating in a completely legal manner that is ultimately not only unjust, but genocidal.
In most incidents, justice and patriotism are not the concerns of those involved.
| 91 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:59:08pm |
re: #82 Killgore Trout
That raises another concern about Wikileaks and LGF. Although it's a common topic of discussion in the news, Federal employees, contractors and military members might have some difficulty porting on a blog that was too friendly to Assange, Manning and Wikileaks. It;s the kind of thing that could cause some problems.
I find the idea that there might be "officially" unacceptable opinions quite chilling.
| 92 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 7:59:46pm |
re: #79 ozbloke
You mean other than the bias it brings?
you fuck...do you expect a world of sovereign nations to have no bias toward those who would harm then because of their sovereignty?....wtf are you getting at
| 93 |
Transfromnation Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:00:43pm |
re: #7 Dark_Falcon
I think both parties have that chart.
But of course; it would brilliant political minds from both sides to come up with such a thing.
| 94 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:00:55pm |
re: #80 albusteve
oh please...how whimpy...this is a blog of mostly American patriots..we love our country and your question is not trivial...do you assume we do not abide and respect the rule of law because we are loyal to our country?...SMACK!
I case you can't see, I've turned the other cheek.
| 95 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:01:57pm |
re: #85 goddamnedfrank
Sez the guy who hates the feds with a deep passion but wants people to think he's a "bigtime" loyal American.
Cognitive dissonance, it's what's for dinner.
you dope...how many time does that meme have to be explained to you?...keep trying to pick a fight and maybe I'll give you one....try again you broken record
| 96 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:02:12pm |
I find humanitarian sentiment more often yields good results than patriotic sentiment.
| 97 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:02:14pm |
re: #91 Fozzie Bear
illgore Trout
I find the idea that there might be "officially" unacceptable opinions quite chilling.
It is however, a fact. If management catches you posting on a blog that trashes your organization you'll either be ordered to stop or given the gate if you refuse. If you are part of the Army you are expected to be loyal to the Army. For an American soldier to hang out at Wikileaks would be like one of us posting at the Stalker Blog.
| 98 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:02:49pm |
re: #82 Killgore Trout
That raises another concern about Wikileaks and LGF. Although it's a common topic of discussion in the news, Federal employees, contractors and military members might have some difficulty porting on a blog that was too friendly to Assange, Manning and Wikileaks. It;s the kind of thing that could cause some problems.
Good point. But the way I see it, they would have a trouble with a blog that would in any way re-transmit the excerpts from the cables, whether those would be quotes by sympathizers or detractors. So it's a problem with discussing WL at all, not so much with defense.
| 99 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:03:44pm |
re: #97 Dark_Falcon
It is however, a fact. If management catches you posting on a blog that trashes your organization you'll either be ordered to stop or given the gate if you refuse. If you are part of the Army you are expected to be loyal to the Army. For an American soldier to hang out at Wikileaks would be like one of us posting at the Stalker Blog.
Isn't that last one a bad example as sometimes we stalk/troll the stalkers/trolls and its considered to be all in good fun?
| 100 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:04:07pm |
re: #91 Fozzie Bear
illgore Trout
I find the idea that there might be "officially" unacceptable opinions quite chilling.
A person can have whatever opinion they want; but no one is guaranteed a job with the government.
A government employer responsible for keeping information confidential (and all agencies have confidential information) might find it off-putting to know he's got an employee who is cheering on the leaks.
A private company with a process they want to keep confidential might have the same problem with an employee they find cheering on leaks from within the company.
| 101 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:07:16pm |
re: #98 Sergey Romanov
Good point. But the way I see it, they would have a trouble with a blog that would in any way re-transmit the excerpts from the cables, whether those would be quotes by sympathizers or detractors. So it's a problem with discussing WL at all, not so much with defense.
stroke alert...KTs point about WL has been spot on target all along
| 102 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:07:21pm |
re: #78 jamesfirecat
I'm not trying to troll you...
I am sooo not getting a troll vibe from you. I feel that your questions are asked in good faith, just so you know.
So how do we draw the line between a news org and a gossip rag?
That one is pretty easy. Look at the difference between just about any news org and TMZ type stuff.
WL is way worse than a common gossip rag, though. They disseminate stolen, classified, sensitive material in toto. Material that can undermine legitimate efforts and put innocent lives in danger.
What Could wikileaks do in order to be a legit news org in my opinion? They could stop trafficking in stolen goods, for starters.
| 103 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:07:31pm |
re: #99 jamesfirecat
Isn't that last one a bad example as sometimes we stalk/troll the stalkers/trolls and its considered to be all in good fun?
We don't do that. We don't post on their blog and we don't stalk them. We bait them sometimes when they get especially nasty, but at no point do we pal around with them. So good objection, but incorrect I think.
| 104 |
Shiplord Kirel Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:08:21pm |
re: #79 ozbloke
You mean other than the bias it brings?
Are Americans the only ones guilty of this lawless patriotism of which you accuse us?
I am fed up with this bullshit. You and your mates probably sit around and laugh about how much shit the stupid seppos take from you while you trumpet your own superiority at literally every opportunity. It is the same throughout the Anglophone drunkosphere: Canucks, Kiwis, Ozzies, and Brits, defend their own nations and boast of their superiority without reservation at literally every opportunity while it is only American patriotism that is disreputable. I have literally never seen an Australian direct the kind of criticism at his own country that we routinely see directed at the USA by people all over the world, including many Americans.
This is not because you believe in justice, but because you are blinded by your own jingoism and the sublime assurance of your superiority, unable to recognize your own bigotry for what it really is.
You'd sing a goddamned different tune if Assange wasn't one of yours and his favorite target wasn't the same as yours.
| 105 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:08:29pm |
re: #100 reine.de.tout
A person can have whatever opinion they want; but no one is guaranteed a job with the government.
A government employer responsible for keeping information confidential (and all agencies have confidential information) might find it off-putting to know he's got an employee who is cheering on the leaks.
A private company with a process they want to keep confidential might have the same problem with an employee they find cheering on leaks from within the company.
All of what you are saying makes sense, if you consider the United States a private company. It isn't a private company.
| 106 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:09:20pm |
re: #99 jamesfirecat
Isn't that last one a bad example as sometimes we stalk/troll the stalkers/trolls and its considered to be all in good fun?
that's an entirely different horse...are you even serious?
| 108 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:09:42pm |
re: #103 Dark_Falcon
We don't do that. We don't post on their blog and we don't stalk them. We bait them sometimes when they get especially nasty, but at no point do we pal around with them. So good objection, but incorrect I think.
Oh okay, I took the time to just once bother to take a look at what they'd posted about me and was left with a feeling of "I need to take a bath, and then a shower, and then get some new skin" so I wasn't aware of exactly what was going on between us and them, I thought I'd heard rumors at one point that SJ liked to play cat and mouse with them on their home turf...
Granted this is the blogging equivalent of being a double agent so obviously much different than what you previously talked about...
| 109 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:10:41pm |
re: #105 Fozzie Bear
All of what you are saying makes sense, if you consider the United States a private company. It isn't a private company.
No.
But it is an employer with proprietary information it feels a need to keep confidential, and as an employer, it expects a certain amount of loyalty from its employees, and it expects to be able to trust that its employees won't go making private information public - like, selling social security numbers to criminals to make fake ID's, etc.
| 110 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:10:45pm |
re: #104 Shiplord Kirel
Are Americans the only ones guilty of this lawless patriotism of which you accuse us?
I am fed up with this bullshit. You and your mates probably sit around and laugh about how much shit the stupid seppos take from you while you trumpet your own superiority at literally every opportunity. It is the same throughout the Anglophone drunkosphere: Canucks, Kiwis, Ozzies, and Brits, defend their own nations and boast of their superiority without reservation at literally every opportunity while it is only American patriotism that is disreputable. I have literally never seen an Australian direct the kind of criticism at his own country that we routinely see directed at the USA by people all over the world, including many Americans.
This is not because you believe in justice, but because you are blinded by your own jingoism and the sublime assurance of your superiority, unable to recognize your own bigotry for what it really is.
You'd sing a goddamned different tune if Assange wasn't one of yours and his favorite target wasn't the same as yours.
whoa....well said
| 111 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:10:50pm |
re: #91 Fozzie Bear
illgore Trout
I find the idea that there might be "officially" unacceptable opinions quite chilling.
Uh..."opinions" about espionage and treason could cost somebody their security clearance. Even associating with people with certain "opinions" could cost somebody a career in the military or State Dept.
| 112 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:11:15pm |
re: #96 Fozzie Bear
I find humanitarian sentiment more often yields good results than patriotic sentiment.
Why do you assume that such concepts are mutually exclusive?
| 113 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:11:26pm |
re: #104 Shiplord Kirel
The comment to which you replied was a criticism of patriotism in general. How in the hell did you extrapolate that to indicate anti-Americanism?
| 114 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:11:35pm |
re: #104 Shiplord Kirel
Are Americans the only ones guilty of this lawless patriotism of which you accuse us?
I am fed up with this bullshit. You and your mates probably sit around and laugh about how much shit the stupid seppos take from you while you trumpet your own superiority at literally every opportunity. It is the same throughout the Anglophone drunkosphere: Canucks, Kiwis, Ozzies, and Brits, defend their own nations and boast of their superiority without reservation at literally every opportunity while it is only American patriotism that is disreputable. I have literally never seen an Australian direct the kind of criticism at his own country that we routinely see directed at the USA by people all over the world, including many Americans.
This is not because you believe in justice, but because you are blinded by your own jingoism and the sublime assurance of your superiority, unable to recognize your own bigotry for what it really is.
You'd sing a goddamned different tune if Assange wasn't one of yours and his favorite target wasn't the same as yours.
Damned strong statement; I like it, I really, really like it!
| 115 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:13:14pm |
re: #113 Fozzie Bear
The comment to which you replied was a criticism of patriotism in general. How in the hell did you extrapolate that to indicate anti-Americanism?
Ozbloke has a very blunt way of saying things; I don't think he intends to be insulting, but he is - and this is not his first statement of criticism of us. I thought Shiplord's response was great.
| 116 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:13:21pm |
re: #111 Killgore Trout
Uh..."opinions" about espionage and treason could cost somebody their security clearance. Even associating with people with certain "opinions" could cost somebody a career in the military or State Dept.
but for world wide liberals or any other antiAmerican type it's cool....makes me sick....let em fend for themselves then
| 117 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:13:26pm |
re: #109 reine.de.tout
No.
But it is an employer with proprietary information it feels a need to keep confidential, and as an employer, it expects a certain amount of loyalty from its employees, and it expects to be able to trust that its employees won't go making private information public - like, selling social security numbers to criminals to make fake ID's, etc.
Of course, the government should demand all its employees not participate in illegal activities. But that's not the same thing at all as not allowing them to freely discuss the activities of others in which they do not participate.
But hey, it's just the first amendment. Not a big deal./
| 118 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:13:28pm |
re: #108 jamesfirecat
Oh okay, I took the time to just once bother to take a look at what they'd posted about me and was left with a feeling of "I need to take a bath, and then a shower, and then get some new skin" so I wasn't aware of exactly what was going on between us and them, I thought I'd heard rumors at one point that SJ liked to play cat and mouse with them on their home turf...
Granted this is the blogging equivalent of being a double agent so obviously much different than what you previously talked about...
SJ used to go over there and counter-troll them, then he got banned from there. He was the only one who did that. And given their level of hate, nothing they do is "in good fun".
| 120 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:14:23pm |
re: #115 reine.de.tout
Ozbloke has a very blunt way of saying things; I don't think he intends to be insulting, but he is - and this is not his first statement of criticism of us. I thought Shiplord's response was great.
he's getting pissy...a bad vibe for somebody I think
| 121 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:14:27pm |
| 122 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:14:49pm |
re: #101 albusteve
He was dead on point with the whole Tea Party thing as well, from the very beginning. I trust his instincts more often than not.
| 123 |
Shiplord Kirel Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:14:56pm |
re: #113 Fozzie Bear
The comment to which you replied was a criticism of patriotism in general. How in the hell did you extrapolate that to indicate anti-Americanism?
Because of the transparent double standard. It isn't just the Anglophones: The Japanese, the French, and the Dutch (among many others) all get a pass on their own nationalism and nationalistic boasting, while it is only Americans who should be ashamed of theirs.
It may be because we are the big guy on the block (which we haven't been in a long time in truth) but it cuts both ways.
| 124 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:15:51pm |
re: #112 Slumbering Behemoth
Why do you assume that such concepts are mutually exclusive?
Yeah, for me one does not exclude another; in fact, because I'm American, and am thankful for all the benefits of citizenship here, I am fortunate enough to be able to put myself aside for a bit and engage in humanitarian efforts. Not everyone in the world has that luxury.
| 125 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:16:08pm |
re: #113 Fozzie Bear
The comment to which you replied was a criticism of patriotism in general. How in the hell did you extrapolate that to indicate anti-Americanism?
bullshit...the target knows a near miss
| 126 |
prairiefire Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:16:25pm |
All hell is breaking out in this prairie snow storm:[Link: www.startribune.com...]
The wind down here in Missouri is crazy.
| 127 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:17:05pm |
re: #122 Slumbering Behemoth
He was dead on point with the whole Tea Party thing as well, from the very beginning. I trust his instincts more often than not.
he needs to brush up on orchids...then, watch out
| 128 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:17:10pm |
re: #126 prairiefire
All hell is breaking out in this prairie snow storm:[Link: www.startribune.com...]
The wind down here in Missouri is crazy.
Have fun!
:P
| 129 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:17:23pm |
re: #126 prairiefire
All hell is breaking out in this prairie snow storm:[Link: www.startribune.com...]
The wind down here in Missouri is crazy.
It's been raining all day here in Chicagoland.
| 130 |
Shiplord Kirel Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:17:25pm |
The only country I've seen where self-criticism even approaches the levels seen here is the UK, and that mostly in England.
| 131 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:17:43pm |
re: #99 jamesfirecat
Charles lives inside their heads. We taunt them occasionally, LVQ and RP actively hunt them, I tend to poke them with a sharp stick, once in a while, but leave the major bashing to LVQ or RP.n They do it better & enjoy it more than I do. Kinda like hiring professionals!
| 132 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:18:20pm |
re: #117 Fozzie Bear
Of course, the government should demand all its employees not participate in illegal activities. But that's not the same thing at all as not allowing them to freely discuss the activities of others in which they do not participate.
But hey, it's just the first amendment. Not a big deal./
Yes, yes, can't discuss something, can you, without the usual insult to the person you're discussing it with.
| 133 |
b_sharp Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:19:23pm |
re: #26 albusteve
speak for yourself...you sound a bit noided there...a post is a post
And some posts kill (long painful story there).
| 134 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:19:35pm |
re: #70 Dark_Falcon
How is the rule of law inconsistent with patriotism?
Rosa Parks, anyone?
Lunch counters, anyone?
| 135 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:19:49pm |
re: #92 albusteve
you fuck... do you expect a world of sovereign nations to have no bias toward those who would harm then because of their sovereignty?...wtf are you getting at
Sue me, I like the rule of law.
I come from a country where its history is that we came with court cases not suit cases. The 20th century brought us immigrants from many nations on earth.
Like it or lump it, we are not as patriotic as the USA.
I have never been to the USA, but I see patriotism is a big part of who you are.
I wasn't holding it against you or dark.
Over the most threads that have read over the years one ones that I enjoy most, are the ones I walk away from with a good understanding.
I normally lurk because I don't have a deep understanding of US politics.
I enjoy being shown the left and right arguments till one runs out of reasons to defend a position. Then I come to a place where I think I have an understanding I will/can except.
This Wikileaks topic has not played out well, if anything I have prodded people to try to understand there positions, that is all.
If that makes you uncomfortable, my apologies.
Your comment above is truly patriotic, you get to decide whether I deserve it.
| 136 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:19:53pm |
re: #132 reine.de.tout
Yes, yes, can't discuss something, can you, without the usual insult to the person you're discussing it with.
I suggest growing a thicker skin. Sarcasm is an important tool for illustrating a point. We all use it from time to time.
I'm not attacking you, but I am attacking ideas with which I disagree, a practice with which everyone here is familiar.
| 137 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:20:02pm |
| 139 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:20:23pm |
Assange's goal is to create anarchy in the US government.
Kind of hard not to be hostile to that...
| 140 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:20:53pm |
re: #136 Fozzie Bear
I suggest growing a thicker skin. Sarcasm is an important tool for illustrating a point. We all use it from time to time.
I'm not attacking you, but I am attacking ideas with which I disagree, a practice with which everyone here is familiar.
You didn't make it clear.
Besides, I'm not bothered by the insult, have at it.
| 142 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:21:53pm |
re: #140 reine.de.tout
You didn't make it clear.
Besides, I'm not bothered by the insult, have at it.
There was no insult. That's the point. I made myself perfectly clear: It is a first amendment issue.
| 143 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:21:56pm |
re: #104 Shiplord Kirel
A bit harsh, but your point is a good one.
Just as an example: I am sure the fine citizens of France firmly believe in "French Exceptionalism", and they have every right to it. It is their country after all, they should feel that way.
Yet, what other group of loyal countrymen/women get's roundly and regularly ridiculed for their love of country the way Americans do? I am at a loss to come up with another example.
| 144 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:22:14pm |
re: #134 WindUpBird
Rosa Parks, anyone?
Lunch counters, anyone?
Those were unconstitutional from the get-go (even if it took the Supreme Court a long time to be willing to say that). Rosa Parks was standing up for America's fundamental law.
| 145 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:22:31pm |
re: #140 reine.de.tout
You didn't make it clear.
Besides, I'm not bothered by the insult, have at it.
You cheeky codger!
| 146 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:22:46pm |
re: #92 albusteve
you fuck...do you expect a world of sovereign nations to have no bias toward those who would harm then because of their sovereignty?...wtf are you getting at
Talk about needing a time out.
Steve, please, come back tomorrow?
| 147 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:23:25pm |
re: #135 ozbloke
Sue me, I like the rule of law.
I come from a country where its history is that we came with court cases not suit cases. The 20th century brought us immigrants from many nations on earth.
Like it or lump it, we are not as patriotic as the USA.
I have never been to the USA, but I see patriotism is a big part of who you are.
I wasn't holding it against you or dark.Over the most threads that have read over the years one ones that I enjoy most, are the ones I walk away from with a good understanding.
I normally lurk because I don't have a deep understanding of US politics.
I enjoy being shown the left and right arguments till one runs out of reasons to defend a position. Then I come to a place where I think I have an understanding I will/can except.This Wikileaks topic has not played out well, if anything I have prodded people to try to understand there positions, that is all.
If that makes you uncomfortable, my apologies.
Your comment above is truly patriotic, you get to decide whether I deserve it.
you can't make me uncomfortable....it's not about politics, it's about reason and power...you have prodded me to become defensive....all else is bullshit, so toss your intellectualism and take a hint about practicality
| 148 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:24:38pm |
re: #136 Fozzie Bear
I suggest growing a thicker skin. Sarcasm is an important tool for illustrating a point. We all use it from time to time.
I'm not attacking you, but I am attacking ideas with which I disagree, a practice with which everyone here is familiar.
bow before reine...you do not even come close to her wisdom silly boy
| 149 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:24:38pm |
re: #135 ozbloke
See, Ozbloke -
A lot of Americans, and I know quite a few - a lot of us are patriotic because we are grateful and thankful! Not because we feel "superior".
We know we're a lucky bunch. As are your folks, I'm sure.
But we know it. And we are grateful for that, and thankful for it. The patriotism for many of us isn't coming from some sense of "we're better!". It's coming from a sense of gratitude, that we are fortunate enough to be citizens of this country.
I think a lot of folks misunderstand that about American patriotism.
| 150 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:24:38pm |
While I'm not absolutely dismissive of patriotism and nationalism, I'm extremely cynical about them. Russian experience. With that, I leave for a few hours.
| 151 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:26:30pm |
| 152 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:27:08pm |
re: #149 reine.de.tout
I think it's important to recognize that there is a benign appreciative form of patriotism, and then there is a darker version. American patriotism comes in both varieties.
| 153 |
What, me worry? Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:27:13pm |
| 154 |
prairiefire Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:27:31pm |
re: #139 Varek Raith
Assange's goal is to create anarchy in the US government.
Kind of hard not to be hostile to that...
I'm a mild mannered Democratic woman until someone jacks with my hearth and home.
| 155 |
Mr Pancakes Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:27:56pm |
re: #150 Sergey Romanov
While I'm not absolutely dismissive of patriotism and nationalism, I'm extremely cynical about them. Russian experience. With that, I leave for a few hours.
What's wrong with being patriotic? I must be missing something.
| 156 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:28:17pm |
re: #154 prairiefire
I'm a mild mannered Democratic woman until someone jacks with my hearth and home.
*Backs slowly away*
Scaaarrryyy....
| 157 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:29:18pm |
re: #152 Fozzie Bear
I think it's important to recognize that there is a benign appreciative form of patriotism, and then there is a darker version. American patriotism comes in both varieties.
I don't deny that it does.
But most of us, most of the people I've ever come across in my life, from all walks of life, all colors, all faiths - have the appreciative form of patriotism.
The ones who don't are the scary ones, the Nazis and such. They are frightening and do damage, but most of us are not there.
| 158 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:30:04pm |
re: #152 Fozzie Bear
I think it's important to recognize that there is a benign appreciative form of patriotism, and then there is a darker version. American patriotism comes in both varieties.
everything has a darker version...I think we all know that, but will you expand a bit?...as in yeah, so what?
| 159 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:30:10pm |
re: #104 Shiplord Kirel
Are Americans the only ones guilty of this lawless patriotism of which you accuse us?
Please show me where I said that?
I am fed up with this bullshit. You and your mates probably sit around and laugh about how much shit the stupid seppos take from you while you trumpet your own superiority at literally every opportunity.
Your reply is to me, can you show me where I 'trumpeted anything' my about my 'superiority'
It is the same throughout the Anglophone drunkosphere: Canucks, Kiwis, Ozzies, and Brits, defend their own nations and boast of their superiority without reservation at literally every opportunity while it is only American patriotism that is disreputable.
Can you show me where I 'trumpeted anything' my about my 'superiority'
I have literally never seen an Australian direct the kind of criticism at his own country that we routinely see directed at the USA by people all over the world, including many Americans.
This is not because you believe in justice, but because you are blinded by your own jingoism and the sublime assurance of your superiority, unable to recognize your own bigotry for what it really is.
You'd sing a goddamned different tune if Assange wasn't one of yours and his favorite target wasn't the same as yours.
What have I said that would indicate that?
Shiplord, there was not one thing you said that I stated.
| 160 |
Ojoe Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:31:13pm |
re: #153 marjoriemoon
There's a '56 Chevy there too, it looks like.
| 161 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:31:35pm |
| 162 |
Ojoe Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:32:47pm |
The good patriotic is, "I will myself personally make my country a better place."
Plenty of us in the USA try to do just that.
Good night all.
| 163 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:32:54pm |
re: #115 reine.de.tout
Ozbloke has a very blunt way of saying things; I don't think he intends to be insulting, but he is - and this is not his first statement of criticism of us. I thought Shiplord's response was great.
Hi Reine, please point me at it.
| 164 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:33:19pm |
re: #152 Fozzie Bear
I think it's important to recognize that there is a benign appreciative form of patriotism, and then there is a darker version. American patriotism comes in both varieties.
All patriotism does, not just the American version. And I agree, it is important to recognize the difference.
I think the difference, however, should be clearly marked as "patriotism" on the one hand, and "nationalism" on the other.
| 165 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:33:31pm |
re: #157 reine.de.tout
I have seen an increasing amount of the less positive form lately, both in media and in meatspace. I am of the opinion that patriotism is a substitute for thought for many people. It has strong potential to be manipulated toward authoritarian ends, and as such, I am extremely skeptical of it.
(Be it American, or otherwise. I am speaking in general terms.)
| 166 |
jamesfirecat Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:33:44pm |
re: #155 Mr Pancakes
What's wrong with being patriotic? I must be missing something.
The thing that is *wrong* with patriotism is the same thing that is *wrong* with any belief system.
If you embrace it to the extent that you blind yourself to the reality of the world around you which is not black and white not us and them, but a multitude of many different shades of colors this is what you end up with...
There's no "perfect" belief system that can be embraced without needing to remember that famous saying "all things in moderation..."
| 167 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:34:26pm |
re: #164 Slumbering Behemoth
All patriotism does, not just the American version. And I agree, it is important to recognize the difference.
I think the difference, however, should be clearly marked as "patriotism" on the one hand, and "nationalism" on the other.
An excellent point. Nationalism is indeed what I was referring to.
| 168 |
What, me worry? Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:34:39pm |
re: #155 Mr Pancakes
What's wrong with being patriotic? I must be missing something.
I think it depends a lot on where you're from.
My grandad had no patriotism to Poland. He left in 1918 and came to the U.S. If you asked him, he'd tell you he was an American, not a Pole.
If I'm following this, I can't disagree that the rule of law takes precedence. Of course it does. Otherwise, it would be against the law to burn an American flag, and it is not. That's a patriotic thing, flying the flag and yet it isn't illegal to burn it. What Fozzie was referring to as the "first amendment" from what I understood.
| 169 |
Mr Pancakes Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:34:49pm |
re: #162 Ojoe
The good patriotic is, "I will myself personally make my country a better place."
Plenty of us in the USA try to do just that.
Good night all.
When my wife raised her arm to take the citizenship oath..... tears streamed from my eyes...... didn't know I was so patriotic until that moment.
| 170 |
b_sharp Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:36:00pm |
re: #104 Shiplord Kirel
Are Americans the only ones guilty of this lawless patriotism of which you accuse us?
I am fed up with this bullshit. You and your mates probably sit around and laugh about how much shit the stupid seppos take from you while you trumpet your own superiority at literally every opportunity. It is the same throughout the Anglophone drunkosphere: Canucks, Kiwis, Ozzies, and Brits, defend their own nations and boast of their superiority without reservation at literally every opportunity while it is only American patriotism that is disreputable. I have literally never seen an Australian direct the kind of criticism at his own country that we routinely see directed at the USA by people all over the world, including many Americans.
This is not because you believe in justice, but because you are blinded by your own jingoism and the sublime assurance of your superiority, unable to recognize your own bigotry for what it really is.
You'd sing a goddamned different tune if Assange wasn't one of yours and his favorite target wasn't the same as yours.
You think we Canucks don't recognize problems with our own country and wish they could be rectified?
Patriotism becomes a problem when it blinds people to real errors made by their country. If you can acknowledge the negatives, as well as the positives, in the actions taken by your country and praise the leadership for those positives while working toward correcting the negatives then your patriotism is appropriate, but if you refuse to acknowledge the negatives and just increase your drum beating when confronted by those negatives then your patriotism is inappropriate.
| 171 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:36:31pm |
re: #152 Fozzie Bear
I think it's important to recognize that there is a benign appreciative form of patriotism, and then there is a darker version. American patriotism comes in both varieties.
Most of us are grateful for the privilege of living here, in the USA, at this time.
And, understand, that we should be grateful. As we are blessed. TO be here, in this place and time.
| 172 |
What, me worry? Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:36:54pm |
re: #167 Fozzie Bear
An excellent point. Nationalism is indeed what I was referring to.
Nationalism, though, is a movement. Patriotism isn't really. I mean nationalism is the cause of Nazism, no? or even communism.
| 173 |
Mr Pancakes Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:37:21pm |
re: #171 Floral Giraffe
Most of us are grateful for the privilege of living here, in the USA, at this time.
And, understand, that we should be grateful. As we are blessed. TO be here, in this place and time.
Ding ding ding... we have a winner!
| 174 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:37:48pm |
re: #172 marjoriemoon
Nationalism, though, is a movement. Patriotism isn't really. I mean nationalism is the cause of Nazism, no? or even communism.
I don't think nationalism is the cause of anything, but it's one hell of a propaganda tool.
| 175 |
Shiplord Kirel Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:37:56pm |
Jingoism vs. patriotism.
I don't know how many of you know this, but in parts of Vietnam it is customary for men who are out in public together to hold hands. It doesn't mean they are lovers or even particularly friendly, it just means they are together. It is a sensible enough custom in a crowded country. It warns robbers and alerts merchants that they may have a multiple business opportunity coming down the street.
Now, when I was there during the unpleasantness of the early 70s, it was like banging my head against a wall to try to convince GIs that these Vietnamese men were not gay (not all of them at any rate). It was impossible for them to see an alien custom from any perspective but their own. That is jingoism; a minor form to be sure, but other expressions of jingoism were one of the causes of the war.
I ran across the same thing in Iraq just a few years ago: It was astonishing that people who had been there for years and whose duties involved interaction with the locals could be as ignorant as they were of the local culture.
| 176 |
What, me worry? Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:38:47pm |
re: #174 Fozzie Bear
I don't think nationalism is the cause of anything, but it's one hell of a propaganda tool.
I think it's a movement though. You hear a lot about nationalism from all those Swedish Democrat groups, the Valems Belang, etc.
| 177 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:39:36pm |
re: #163 ozbloke
Hi Reine, please point me at it.
Point you at what?
Previous criticisms?
Oh, gosh, Oz, I'd have to go look through comments and I don't care to do it.
Let me change it to: It's my impression that you've been somewhat critical at times. I could be wrong, but that's how it's come across. However, you DO have a very blunt way of putting things, and I don't believe it's your intention to be insulting or critical.
| 178 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:40:41pm |
re: #175 Shiplord Kirel
Jingoism vs. patriotism.
I don't know how many of you know this, but in parts of Vietnam it is customary for men who are out in public together to hold hands. It doesn't mean they are lovers or even particularly friendly, it just means they are together. It is a sensible enough custom in a crowded country. It warns robbers and alerts merchants that they may have a multiple business opportunity coming down the street.
Now, when I was there during the unpleasantness of the early 70s, it was like banging my head against a wall to try to convince GIs that these Vietnamese men were not gay (not all of them at any rate). It was impossible for them to see an alien custom from any perspective but their own. That is jingoism; a minor form to be sure, but other expressions of jingoism were one of the causes of the war.
I ran across the same thing in Iraq just a few years ago: It was astonishing that people who had been there for years and whose duties involved interaction with the locals could be as ignorant as they were of the local culture.
They didn't want to see that which made them uncomfortable.
| 180 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:41:10pm |
re: #167 Fozzie Bear
An excellent point. Nationalism is indeed what I was referring to.
Just trying to help move things along. Sometimes we here can find ourselves vehemently disagreeing on a subject that we in fact would see eye to eye on but for the use of proper terminology.
| 181 |
Interesting Times Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:41:31pm |
Interesting collection of quotes I just came across:
"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders . . . All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism." - Hermann Goering
"The common man hates war, but he will follow you into war if you convince him he is threatened, and tell him often enough that he is not patriotic enough." - Joseph Goebbels
"Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official, save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country. In either event, it is unpatriotic not to tell the truth, whether about the president or anyone else." - Theodore Roosevelt
| 182 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:41:36pm |
re: #176 marjoriemoon
I think it's a movement though. You hear a lot about nationalism from all those Swedish Democrat groups, the Valems Belang, etc.
If you ask a huge crowd of people "do you love your home?" the answer is predictable, you know it before the question is asked.
If you use it in an assertion or as a symbolic association, rather than a question, it can carry the power to convince people to do all kinds of things: Everything from genocide to helping out your fellow man. It's one hell of a propaganda tool.
| 183 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:41:43pm |
I guess if someone wants to understand my patriotism, they will have to indulge me personally, rather than lump me in with nationalists
| 184 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:42:06pm |
re: #147 albusteve
you can't make me uncomfortable...it's not about politics, it's about reason and power...you have prodded me to become defensive...all else is bullshit, so toss your intellectualism and take a hint about practicality
If you look back upthread, when I was asked about patriotism I spoke in terms of the world, not the USA.
#67 Will be what you are looking for.
Any criticism anyone feels I made of the USA's patriotism didn't happen.
| 185 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:43:12pm |
re: #170 b_sharp
You think we Canucks don't recognize problems with our own country and wish they could be rectified?
Patriotism becomes a problem when it blinds people to real errors made by their country. If you can acknowledge the negatives, as well as the positives, in the actions taken by your country and praise the leadership for those positives while working toward correcting the negatives then your patriotism is appropriate, but if you refuse to acknowledge the negatives and just increase your drum beating when confronted by those negatives then your patriotism is inappropriate.
I think the US history is FULL of examples, old and new, of us looking at the negatives and taking action to correct them.
Again, the patriotism you see here and from most Americans, is a patriotism born of gratitude and being thankful, not a "rah rah rah we're number 1"!
| 186 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:44:24pm |
re: #184 ozbloke
If you look back upthread, when I was asked about patriotism I spoke in terms of the world, not the USA.
#67 Will be what you are looking for.
Any criticism anyone feels I made of the USA's patriotism didn't happen.
patriotism is not about the US, it's about people...if you were misunderstood, it was an easy mistake
| 187 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:45:10pm |
re: #184 ozbloke
If you look back upthread, when I was asked about patriotism I spoke in terms of the world, not the USA.
#67 Will be what you are looking for.
Any criticism anyone feels I made of the USA's patriotism didn't happen.
You initial post did not make that clear. Your clarification is accepted.
| 188 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:46:24pm |
re: #184 ozbloke
If you look back upthread, when I was asked about patriotism I spoke in terms of the world, not the USA.
#67 Will be what you are looking for.
Any criticism anyone feels I made of the USA's patriotism didn't happen.
:-)
Again, you have a blunt way of speaking, not always clear to me.
I will try to have patience.
| 189 |
Varek Raith Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:46:46pm |
re: #187 Dark_Falcon
You initial post did not make that clear. Your clarification is accepted.
Aw, man!
*Puts away thermal detonators*
| 190 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:47:17pm |
| 191 |
Shiplord Kirel Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:48:23pm |
re: #184 ozbloke
If you look back upthread, when I was asked about patriotism I spoke in terms of the world, not the USA.
#67 Will be what you are looking for.
Any criticism anyone feels I made of the USA's patriotism didn't happen.
You're right of course. Sorry I unloaded on you because of a pet peeve of mine. I think American patriotism is singled out though, and similar expressions elsewhere are given a pass. Jingoism; perverse, mindless patriotism; exists everywhere and it is primary driving force in global conflict.
Part of my frustration is with idiots like the pair who constitute the subject of this thread. Both will shout their patriotism and devotion to the Constitution from the rooftops, while they are in fact border-line seditionists appealing to morons.
| 192 |
What, me worry? Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:48:30pm |
re: #182 Fozzie Bear
If you ask a huge crowd of people "do you love your home?" the answer is predictable, you know it before the question is asked.
If you use it in an assertion or as a symbolic association, rather than a question, it can carry the power to convince people to do all kinds of things: Everything from genocide to helping out your fellow man. It's one hell of a propaganda tool.
Absolutely. So nationalism is patriotism to an extreme? I mean, I can feel pride for my nation without thinking certain people should be excluded from it.
| 193 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:49:15pm |
re: #189 Varek Raith
Aw, man!
*Puts away thermal detonators*
Well you're the Sith Lord. If you don't like Ozbloke's clarification, feel free to punish him by Force Gazing a koala instead of an ewok.
/entirely kidding
| 195 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:50:19pm |
re: #149 reine.de.tout
See, Ozbloke -
A lot of Americans, and I know quite a few - a lot of us are patriotic because we are grateful and thankful! Not because we feel "superior".We know we're a lucky bunch. As are your folks, I'm sure.
But we know it. And we are grateful for that, and thankful for it. The patriotism for many of us isn't coming from some sense of "we're better!". It's coming from a sense of gratitude, that we are fortunate enough to be citizens of this country.
I think a lot of folks misunderstand that about American patriotism.
Hi Reine,
Sorry, I'm getting so far behind in this thread.
My issue with all biases is the same.
As soon as something is said about what we hold dear we become defensive.
I want to hear about the law, Keven Rudd Australia's last Prime Minister, now sorta like our Secretary of State lays the blame purely at the feet of the USA Govt. He says, Assange can not be charged under any Australian law.
I'll guess the majority here blame Assange, me at the moment I'm going to try to hear all point of view to get a better understanding.
I guess I see little law talk and I'm hoping to see more from both sides.
FYI: I updinged the majority of Killgore and Barrett posts.
Blessed are the peacemakers.
| 196 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:51:14pm |
re: #192 marjoriemoon
Absolutely. So nationalism is patriotism to an extreme? I mean, I can feel pride for my nation without thinking certain people should be excluded from it.
The two are close enough together that I am uncomfortable with anthems, ballads, and flags. I always have been. I was raised on stories of wartime Germany, told to me by my mother who spent her earliest years in Nazi Germany. I have an extremely hard time seeing any of that stuff as helpful or productive. I see it as dangerous.
| 197 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:51:39pm |
re: #195 ozbloke
Hi Reine,
Sorry, I'm getting so far behind in this thread.
My issue with all biases is the same.
As soon as something is said about what we hold dear we become defensive.I want to hear about the law, Keven Rudd Australia's last Prime Minister, now sorta like our Secretary of State lays the blame purely at the feet of the USA Govt. He says, Assange can not be charged under any Australian law.
I'll guess the majority here blame Assange, me at the moment I'm going to try to hear all point of view to get a better understanding.
I guess I see little law talk and I'm hoping to see more from both sides.
FYI: I updinged the majority of Killgore and Barrett posts.
Blessed are the peacemakers.
can't finger Assange yet, right?...why not?
| 198 |
Interesting Times Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:53:21pm |
re: #184 ozbloke
Maybe the issue was that your first post re patriotism posed the question without qualifiers or rhetorical softeners (e.g. "I don't mean that as a criticism", "not that that's necessarily a bad thing", etc).
The question hanging by itself like that made it possible for people to project all kinds of less-than-positive interpretations upon it (and it doesn't help matters that we frequently get trolled with vague or passive-aggressive "hint-hint" one-liner posts deliberately meant to cause discord and start fights)
| 199 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:53:43pm |
re: #196 Fozzie Bear
The two are close enough together that I am uncomfortable with anthems, ballads, and flags. I always have been. I was raised on stories of wartime Germany, told to me by my mother who spent her earliest years in Nazi Germany. I have an extremely hard time seeing any of that stuff as helpful or productive. I see it as dangerous.
I understand why you feel that way, but I do not share your views. America's flag and anthem are things I love and have always been proud of.
| 200 |
What, me worry? Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:55:34pm |
re: #196 Fozzie Bear
The two are close enough together that I am uncomfortable with anthems, ballads, and flags. I always have been. I was raised on stories of wartime Germany, told to me by my mother who spent her earliest years in Nazi Germany. I have an extremely hard time seeing any of that stuff as helpful or productive. I see it as dangerous.
I can see that completely, but on the flipside, this country saved my grandparents. They would have had no where else to go. They felt a debt to this nation and were willing to work, live here and raise their families here. So that's why I think it depends on where you're from and the rules of that country at the time you lived in it.
The flag is something I love, mostly because for 100s of years in this country, it was pretty much whatever you wanted it to be. Women sewed their own flag versions for their families during many periods in our history. We don't really do that now, but I always like to hold the idea that we could if we wanted to.
| 201 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:55:44pm |
re: #198 publicityStunted
Maybe the issue was that your first post re patriotism posed the question without qualifiers or rhetorical softeners (e.g. "I don't mean that as a criticism", "not that that's necessarily a bad thing", etc).
The question hanging by itself like that made it possible for people to project all kinds of less-than-positive interpretations upon it (and it doesn't help matters that we frequently get trolled with vague or passive-aggressive "hint-hint" one-liner posts deliberately meant to cause discord and start fights)
or turn the tables on some narrow minded echo person....people are responsible for their point of view...but call it trolling if you like
| 202 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:56:09pm |
re: #177 reine.de.tout
Point you at what?
Previous criticisms?Oh, gosh, Oz, I'd have to go look through comments and I don't care to do it.
Let me change it to: It's my impression that you've been somewhat critical at times. I could be wrong, but that's how it's come across. However, you DO have a very blunt way of putting things, and I don't believe it's your intention to be insulting or critical.
Feel free to acuse me of being polite but blunt.
That I will accept, the rest, well no.
I do not believe I have ever been guilty of criticizing the USA.
I have disagreed with some posters comments, but I have never been rude.
| 203 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:56:28pm |
re: #199 Dark_Falcon
I understand why you feel that way, but I do not share your views. America's flag and anthem are things I love and have always been proud of.
It's a song and a graphic design. To me, it's literally nothing. I am fascinated by our history as a species, and less so by our history as a nation. I do think the US has had a special role to play in history, but I think it plays a part far older than our flag. We are part of a tradition thousands of years old, started by the greeks.
That's how I view things, and as such, that doesn't make me particularly patriotic. It also doesn't often make me particularly popular.
| 204 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:56:42pm |
I spent the $15 for Minecraft this afternoon. Fun and Simple. I think it needs a physic engine and few more bells and whistles but it's a fun sandbox.
| 205 |
What, me worry? Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:56:47pm |
And this country continues to be the saving grace for many although the door may be narrower.
| 206 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:57:03pm |
re: #196 Fozzie Bear
The two are close enough together that I am uncomfortable with anthems, ballads, and flags. I always have been. I was raised on stories of wartime Germany, told to me by my mother who spent her earliest years in Nazi Germany. I have an extremely hard time seeing any of that stuff as helpful or productive. I see it as dangerous.
you see things that are not there necessarily....it's never all or nothing
| 207 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:57:56pm |
re: #202 ozbloke
Feel free to acuse me of being polite but blunt.
That I will accept, the rest, well no.I do not believe I have ever been guilty of criticizing the USA.
I have disagreed with some posters comments, but I have never been rude.
just remember...who's your daddy
| 208 |
b_sharp Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:58:42pm |
re: #185 reine.de.tout
I think the US history is FULL of examples, old and new, of us looking at the negatives and taking action to correct them.
Absolutely. I see it all the time, here and elsewhere.
Again, the patriotism you see here and from most Americans, is a patriotism born of gratitude and being thankful, not a "rah rah rah we're number 1"!
I never said otherwise rene.
However, the 'patriotism' I see from many on the far right, including claiming that fellow Americans pointing out problems with the American culture or actions of the government (like the war in Iraq), makes them unpatriotic and un-American is a horribly caustic meme.
I don't see full fledged versions of this meme here, ever.
| 209 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:58:48pm |
OMG! The Chronicles of Narnia is on right now!
/yawn
| 210 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:59:10pm |
| 211 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:59:37pm |
re: #203 Fozzie Bear
It's a song and a graphic design. To me, it's literally nothing. I am fascinated by our history as a species, and less so by our history as a nation. I do think the US has had a special role to play in history, but I think it plays a part far older than our flag. We are part of a tradition thousands of years old, started by the greeks.
That's how I view things, and as such, that doesn't make me particularly patriotic. It also doesn't often make me particularly popular.
No, it won't make you popular. Flags, anthems, and patriotic stories are things that people need to bind them together to love their nation, keep it free, and fight against evil. That is how I have always under such symbols role in America (and in nations such as Australia and France, too).
| 212 |
b_sharp Sat, Dec 11, 2010 8:59:47pm |
re: #189 Varek Raith
Aw, man!
*Puts away thermal detonators*
You could use them anyway - just a little bit.
| 213 |
What, me worry? Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:00:30pm |
re: #203 Fozzie Bear
It's a song and a graphic design. To me, it's literally nothing. I am fascinated by our history as a species, and less so by our history as a nation. I do think the US has had a special role to play in history, but I think it plays a part far older than our flag. We are part of a tradition thousands of years old, started by the greeks.
That's how I view things, and as such, that doesn't make me particularly patriotic. It also doesn't often make me particularly popular.
It's all borrowed stuff. Humans are suckers for a good symbol.
| 214 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:01:59pm |
re: #213 marjoriemoon
It's all borrowed stuff. Humans are suckers for a good symbol.
Yes indeed we are. I would say that on many levels, it's all we do. We are pattern-matching pattern-seeking machines, in many ways. That's why propaganda is so effective, and symbolism so powerful to us.
| 215 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:02:47pm |
re: #211 Dark_Falcon
No, it won't make you popular. Flags, anthems, and patriotic stories are things that people need to bind them together to love their nation, keep it free, and fight against evil. That is how I have always under such symbols role in America (and in nations such as Australia and France, too).
any European should know this....it's a holdover that we have adapted, no blood, no foul
| 216 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:04:05pm |
re: #214 Fozzie Bear
Yes indeed we are. I would say that on many levels, it's all we do. We are pattern-matching pattern-seeking machines, in many ways. That's why propaganda is so effective, and symbolism so powerful to us.
it's nice to be human, eh?
| 217 |
What, me worry? Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:04:35pm |
re: #214 Fozzie Bear
Yes indeed we are. I would say that on many levels, it's all we do. We are pattern-matching pattern-seeking machines, in many ways. That's why propaganda is so effective, and symbolism so powerful to us.
Are there any symbols you like? Patriotic or otherwise?
| 218 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:04:36pm |
re: #186 albusteve
patriotism is not about the US, it's about people...if you were misunderstood, it was an easy mistake
albusteve,
Let me tell you a secret.
{a bit closer, I have to whisper.}
SB I think brought up Nationalism, when he did that, I had to go looking to see what the difference was between patriotism and nationalism.
In Australia we rarely use either term.
My version of patriotism cant be nationalism because I think defined groups within countries could be patriotic to a cause, and not really about a country.
I'll give you a link:
Patriotism is a love and devotion to one's country. It has had different meanings over time and its meaning is highly dependent upon context, geography, and philosophy.
Ok, now don't tell anyone.
| 219 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:05:43pm |
re: #187 Dark_Falcon
You initial post did not make that clear. Your clarification is accepted.
Thanks, but #67 was NEVER about America.
| 220 |
Shiplord Kirel Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:05:54pm |
Remember: Alex Jones claims to have been doing the Assange thing for years, revealing classified information, but he was never able or willing to produce the actual documents.
It is just disgusting, almost frightening, that a United States senator would even agree to an interview with a 9-11 troofer, let alone engage in an exchange of fawning compliments with him.
| 221 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:06:49pm |
The cake truly is a lie. *sigh*
Skip to about the 1:10 mark for the true WTFness.
| 222 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:07:01pm |
re: #218 ozbloke
albusteve,
Let me tell you a secret.
{a bit closer, I have to whisper.}SB I think brought up Nationalism, when he did that, I had to go looking to see what the difference was between patriotism and nationalism.
In Australia we rarely use either term.
My version of patriotism cant be nationalism because I think defined groups within countries could be patriotic to a cause, and not really about a country.
I'll give you a link:
Patriotism is a love and devotion to one's country. It has had different meanings over time and its meaning is highly dependent upon context, geography, and philosophy.Ok, now don't tell anyone.
I've lost interest...I'm into Beatle music now
dig this
| 223 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:07:02pm |
re: #202 ozbloke
Feel free to acuse me of being polite but blunt.
That I will accept, the rest, well no.I do not believe I have ever been guilty of criticizing the USA.
I have disagreed with some posters comments, but I have never been rude.
No, I didn't use the term rude.
Blunt.
Critical.
I did not say rude, because I didn't think rude.
| 224 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:07:11pm |
re: #219 ozbloke
Thanks, but #67 was NEVER about America.
Understood and accepted. Thank you for making that clear.
| 225 |
What, me worry? Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:07:15pm |
re: #218 ozbloke
I don't see patriotism as a problem, unless used as propaganda to exclude certain groups, which is how I define nationalism.
| 226 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:08:41pm |
re: #208 b_sharp
Absolutely. I see it all the time, here and elsewhere.
I never said otherwise rene.
However, the 'patriotism' I see from many on the far right, including claiming that fellow Americans pointing out problems with the American culture or actions of the government (like the war in Iraq), makes them unpatriotic and un-American is a horribly caustic meme.
I don't see full fledged versions of this meme here, ever.
I don't disagree with that at all. It's the flip version of lack of patriotism in some far-left groups.
| 227 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:09:08pm |
re: #191 Shiplord Kirel
You're right of course. Sorry I unloaded on you because of a pet peeve of mine. I think American patriotism is singled out though, and similar expressions elsewhere are given a pass. Jingoism; perverse, mindless patriotism; exists everywhere and it is primary driving force in global conflict.
Part of my frustration is with idiots like the pair who constitute the subject of this thread. Both will shout their patriotism and devotion to the Constitution from the rooftops, while they are in fact border-line seditionists appealing to morons.
Shiplord, I agree with this 100%
You get singled out because you seen as leaders of the free world.
You are there because you put your lives on the line for other countries less fortunate than themselves.
Just my view, could be wrong.
| 228 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:10:31pm |
re: #220 Shiplord Kirel
It is just disgusting, almost frightening, that a United States senator would even agree to an interview with a 9-11 troofer, let alone engage in an exchange of fawning compliments with him.
And doubly so, knowing that the good people of Kentucky would elect him to office when anyone giving a crap could find that Rand has been sympathetic to Jones and his ideas, and vice versa, should they have paid any attention.
| 229 |
b_sharp Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:10:34pm |
re: #199 Dark_Falcon
I understand why you feel that way, but I do not share your views. America's flag and anthem are things I love and have always been proud of.
I've never understood that emotion. I love living in Canada, because for the most part it reflects my values, but I could also live quite happily in the US, or Australia, or NZ, or any of a dozen western culture nations. I'm proud that our shared culture is the driving force behind the Enlightenment in distant history, and the civil rights movement in recent history. I'm also proud of the US for its incredible contribution to the civil rights improvements we've seen globally the last 40 years, and for the help it gives to other nations.
To me, the anthem and the flag are just symbols, and as such do not need to be loved, because the actions of the people within the country symbolized by the two are respect and praise worthy on their own.
I would prefer to relate to the symbolized than the symbols.
| 230 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:10:52pm |
re: #227 ozbloke
Shiplord, I agree with this 100%
You get singled out because you seen as leaders of the free world.
You are there because you put your lives on the line for other countries less fortunate than themselves.Just my view, could be wrong.
Well, I agree with that whole-heartedly.
| 231 |
What, me worry? Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:11:03pm |
re: #221 Slumbering Behemoth
The cake truly is a lie. *sigh*
Skip to about the 1:10 mark for the true WTFness.
Yikes! Sing it, comrade!
The reception at an ice stadium in St. Petersburg was dedicated to fighting children's cancer. International celebrities including Kevin Costner, Gerard Depardieu, Mickey Rourke, Sharon Stone, Kurt Russell, Vincent Cassel, Monica Belucci, Ornella Muti, Goldie Hawn and many others attended the benefit concert.
| 232 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:11:10pm |
re: #217 marjoriemoon
Are there any symbols you like? Patriotic or otherwise?
I'm kind of a weirdo, in that I am nearly constantly analyzing symbolism and its effect on myself and the people around me.
My cat and my ragged old easy chair symbolize home to me, cigarettes symbolize frustration, spiral bound notebooks symbolize education, and so on.
In college, I double majored in computer science (mostly object oriented programming) and communications (focusing on propaganda studies). My mom raised me on a steady diet of lectures about always questioning authority, and always questioning the sources of my own beliefs.
I still carry my zippo lighter even though I no longer smoke, because it represents my independence to me. (Long story there.) We are all soaked in symbols all the time I think, and often unaware of it.
| 233 |
Mr Pancakes Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:11:25pm |
re: #222 albusteve
I've lost interest...I'm into Beatle music now
[Video]dig this
Worst Beatles song ever?
Or perhaps this one?
| 234 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:11:39pm |
re: #227 ozbloke
Shiplord, I agree with this 100%
You get singled out because you seen as leaders of the free world.
You are there because you put your lives on the line for other countries less fortunate than themselves.Just my view, could be wrong.
so does Austrailia....Ships post will apply to you as well, because it's not a matter of degree in the end, it's about principle
| 235 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:14:22pm |
re: #232 Fozzie Bear
I forgot to note (but meant to) that object oriented programming and propaganda studies are two subjects that are literally about nothing other than the manipulation of symbols. That was meant to be part of my point, but I forgot to note it.
| 236 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:14:35pm |
| 238 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:14:48pm |
re: #233 Mr Pancakes
Worst Beatles song ever?
[Video]
a few clunkers here and there...you make a good case....but every giant band has a few bones to rattle...the Stones have more than their share btw
| 239 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:14:48pm |
re: #197 albusteve
can't finger Assange yet, right?...why not?
For the same reason I haven't finger, the US Govt., Manning or Assange.
Govt.
It should not have been allowed to occur in the manner it did.
Manning
Was he coercied, would it have happened without Assange
Assange
I have not seen a point of law that hasn't stated that it may be 'questionable' to succeed with.
Can you help with any of those?
| 240 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:15:47pm |
| 241 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:16:03pm |
re: #231 marjoriemoon
It's a good thing they were there to promote, but damn. Talk about surreal.
| 242 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:16:57pm |
Goodnight, all, be well.
Do remember, that your best friend might be contemplating suicide.
Be just a little nicer ti yur friends & family.
You might be saving a life.
That's frickin' morbid & depressing, but true.
And on the other hand,
Lean closer,
a liitle closer,
*smooch*
softly on your cheek.
PR, yours was a hard smooch.
G'Night, all.
| 243 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:16:59pm |
re: #239 ozbloke
For the same reason I haven't finger, the US Govt., Manning or Assange.
Govt.
It should not have been allowed to occur in the manner it did.Manning
Was he coercied, would it have happened without AssangeAssange
I have not seen a point of law that hasn't stated that it may be 'questionable' to succeed with.Can you help with any of those?
no...I'm bored with the subject...I've said my piece long ago, but I get your drift
| 244 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:17:36pm |
re: #241 Slumbering Behemoth
It's a good thing they were there to promote, but damn. Talk about surreal.
Sure it's weird, but if it's just to raise funds for cancer research, well, bring on the creepy!
| 245 |
Mr Pancakes Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:17:46pm |
re: #238 albusteve
a few clunkers here and there...you make a good case...but every giant band has a few bones to rattle...the Stones have more than their share btw
Don't get me wrong Steve...... the Beatles were musical gods. They didn't have too many clunkers.
| 246 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:18:11pm |
re: #198 publicityStunted
Maybe the issue was that your first post re patriotism posed the question without qualifiers or rhetorical softeners (e.g. "I don't mean that as a criticism", "not that that's necessarily a bad thing", etc).
The question hanging by itself like that made it possible for people to project all kinds of less-than-positive interpretations upon it (and it doesn't help matters that we frequently get trolled with vague or passive-aggressive "hint-hint" one-liner posts deliberately meant to cause discord and start fights)
Hi publicityStunted,
Tyrin to keep up, more posts for me in this thread than any other.
Thank you for the tip, I will try to be more aware.
I did think my question was accurate, Dark does have a disdain for wikileaks.
| 247 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:19:04pm |
re: #245 Mr Pancakes
Don't get me wrong Steve... the Beatles were musical gods. They didn't have too many clunkers.
You can't release as many albums as they did without a few less-than-amazing songs.
| 248 |
Mr Pancakes Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:20:06pm |
re: #247 Fozzie Bear
You can't release as many albums as they did without a few less-than-amazing songs.
Agreed.... even their "B sides" were hits.
| 249 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:20:25pm |
re: #232 Fozzie Bear
I still carry my zippo lighter even though I no longer smoke, because it represents my independence to me. (Long story there.)
Not to mention that it's handy to be able to make a flame at the flick of a thumb, regardless of whether or not you smoke. Zippos are well made tools.
| 250 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:22:40pm |
re: #245 Mr Pancakes
Don't get me wrong Steve... the Beatles were musical gods. They didn't have too many clunkers.
they delved into every sort of music there is, inevitably there will be stinkers...I want to remember their smash mouth rock and roll the most, but they were indeed way out there with ballads and other stuff that just blew critics minds...in that event they set many standards, and I'm a huge fan
what is this exactly?, besides genius
| 251 |
b_sharp Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:22:46pm |
re: #226 reine.de.tout
I don't disagree with that at all. It's the flip version of lack of patriotism in some far-left groups.
I would say I'm apatriotic, but that doesn't mean I hate where I live, nor that I would prefer to live elsewhere, nor that I wouldn't fight to preserve the culture, ours, that best reflects my value set and allows me to practice it without fear. If I can be labelled patriotic it would be toward the modern western value set.
The left doesn't like patriotism because it smacks of tribalism with a very narrow and small membership. In all likelihood that is nothing more than an idea built of straw.
| 252 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:23:34pm |
re: #246 ozbloke
Hi publicityStunted,
Tyrin to keep up, more posts for me in this thread than any other.
Thank you for the tip, I will try to be more aware.
I did think my question was accurate, Dark does have a disdain for wikileaks.
Yes, indeed I do. I feel that it is hostile to my country and that will earn an organization my disdain at minimum.
| 253 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:23:54pm |
re: #248 Mr Pancakes
Agreed... even their "B sides" were hits.
7 short years of very high production...off the scales, beyond anyone before or since....simply remarkable
| 254 |
What, me worry? Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:24:45pm |
re: #235 Fozzie Bear
I forgot to note (but meant to) that object oriented programming and propaganda studies are two subjects that are literally about nothing other than the manipulation of symbols. That was meant to be part of my point, but I forgot to note it.
Great topic to study. You like Dan Brown, the author?
| 255 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:25:23pm |
re: #247 Fozzie Bear
You can't release as many albums as they did without a few less-than-amazing songs.
right, considering their land breaking experiments
| 256 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:25:45pm |
re: #254 marjoriemoon
Great topic to study. You like Dan Brown, the author?
I think he gets a tad ridiculous with it. I like his stuff, but I don't love it.
| 257 |
Mr Pancakes Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:26:19pm |
re: #250 albusteve
they delved into every sort of music there is, inevitably there will be stinkers...I want to remember their smash mouth rock and roll the most, but they were indeed way out there with ballads and other stuff that just blew critics minds...in that event they set many standards, and I'm a huge fan
what is this exactly?, besides genius[Video]
Yep..... George Harrison wrote some gems for sure.
Does this one bring back memories?
| 258 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:26:31pm |
re: #252 Dark_Falcon
Yes, indeed I do. I feel that it is hostile to my country and that will earn an organization my disdain at minimum.
got yer six bro
| 259 |
Fozzie Bear Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:27:03pm |
re: #256 Fozzie Bear
But I do like the general idea he pushes, that culture really isn't much more than a matrix of associations and symbols. I tend to agree with that idea.
| 260 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:28:42pm |
re: #257 Mr Pancakes
Yep... George Harrison wrote some gems for sure.
Does this one bring back memories?
[Video]
of course....our very first Beatles cut here in the states, but Harrison didn't write it
| 261 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:29:23pm |
re: #260 albusteve
of course...our very first Beatles cut here in the states, but Harrison didn't write it
I see you twinned one thought with another...my bad
| 262 |
What, me worry? Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:29:35pm |
re: #255 albusteve
right, considering their land breaking experiments
We went to hear a friend play tonight. He put a band together and got a gig at a local eatery. Lots of Beatles covers. Some Stones, Eric Clapton, Hendrix. Was nice.
All these years, I never realized what a high pitch Lennon and McCartney had until these guys started singing! Like I say, the music was very good...
| 263 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:29:54pm |
re: #232 Fozzie Bear
I'm kind of a weirdo, in that I am nearly constantly analyzing symbolism and its effect on myself and the people around me.
As well you should. Symbolism can be very powerful thing, especially when it is subtle. Anyone involved in visual or communication arts will confirm that.
| 264 |
Mr Pancakes Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:30:02pm |
re: #260 albusteve
of course...our very first Beatles cut here in the states, but Harrison didn't write it
No I know... I was talking about "Here Comes the Sun" that you posted.
| 265 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:30:21pm |
re: #251 b_sharp
I would say I'm apatriotic, but that doesn't mean I hate where I live, nor that I would prefer to live elsewhere, nor that I wouldn't fight to preserve the culture, ours, that best reflects my value set and allows me to practice it without fear. If I can be labelled patriotic it would be toward the modern western value set.
The left doesn't like patriotism because it smacks of tribalism with a very narrow and small membership. In all likelihood that is nothing more than an idea built of straw.
Some on the left does not like patriotism for that reason, but there are leftists who simply hate their own country and reject patriotism for that reason.
| 266 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:31:00pm |
| 267 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:32:54pm |
re: #262 marjoriemoon
We went to hear a friend play tonight. He put a band together and got a gig at a local eatery. Lots of Beatles covers. Some Stones, Eric Clapton, Hendrix. Was nice.
All these years, I never realized what a high pitch Lennon and McCartney had until these guys started singing! Like I say, the music was very good...
the genius is hidden in their music...it is very difficult to reproduce by ear and needs to be charted to understand what the hell they were playing....very few good Beatles covers out there for sure for that reason...a trained ear will tell you something is not quite right when you hear them
| 268 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:34:05pm |
re: #225 marjoriemoon
I don't see patriotism as a problem, unless used as propaganda to exclude certain groups, which is how I define nationalism.
Bugger, I'm gonna use an American example this time.
So if a person from the south who you felt supported succession, was being put forward for the Supreme Court nominee would you support him, or do you think what he considered to be patriotic, might influence him in ways you might not support?
This is bugger for anyone who doesn,t know
| 269 |
b_sharp Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:34:19pm |
re: #265 Dark_Falcon
Some on the left does not like patriotism for that reason, but there are leftists who simply hate their own country and reject patriotism for that reason.
Then they should move, or use existing legal political avenues to change the country, as long as they realize that democracy necessarily puts the majority wishes first.
That said, I haven't met any on the left here who hate Canada, although it may be different down there.
| 270 |
What, me worry? Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:36:23pm |
re: #267 albusteve
the genius is hidden in their music...it is very difficult to reproduce by ear and needs to be charted to understand what the hell they were playing...very few good Beatles covers out there for sure for that reason...a trained ear will tell you something is not quite right when you hear them
There's nothing like them and I doubt will ever be.
These fellas really struggled with the higher octaves. They were better with Hendrix and Clapton.
| 271 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:37:04pm |
re: #269 b_sharp
Then they should move, or use existing legal political avenues to change the country, as long as they realize that democracy necessarily puts the majority wishes first.
That said, I haven't met any on the left here who hate Canada, although it may be different down there.
everybody loves a poodle
| 272 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:37:36pm |
re: #234 albusteve
so does Austrailia...Ships post will apply to you as well, because it's not a matter of degree in the end, it's about principle
Yes we have and we do, for many years.
// Didn't want to mention it, you know how SK can be.
// Shhhhh...
| 273 |
Mr Pancakes Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:37:41pm |
re: #260 albusteve
of course...our very first Beatles cut here in the states, but Harrison didn't write it
Ringo Starr even penned some songs..... like this one.
| 275 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:38:10pm |
re: #198 publicityStunted
Maybe the issue was that your first post re patriotism posed the question without qualifiers or rhetorical softeners (e.g. "I don't mean that as a criticism", "not that that's necessarily a bad thing", etc).
The question hanging by itself like that made it possible for people to project all kinds of less-than-positive interpretations upon it (and it doesn't help matters that we frequently get trolled with vague or passive-aggressive "hint-hint" one-liner posts deliberately meant to cause discord and start fights)
I generally agree with everything you said, except I think there's a responsibility on both sides. If I'm posting about a serious subject I usually read what I've written out loud to myself before hitting the "post" button (self-editing is why takes me a long time to respond at times).
By the same token, if something someone has posted seems "off" to me—especially if it's out of character or written by someone whose views I'm not familiar with—then I feel it's up to me to ask for clarification before unloading on them.
| 276 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:38:47pm |
re: #270 marjoriemoon
There's nothing like them and I doubt will ever be.
These fellas really struggled with the higher octaves. They were better with Hendrix and Clapton.
if you study Robert Johnson, Hendrix and Clapton will fall right into place....almost every lick known emulates from his stuff
| 277 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:38:49pm |
re: #249 Slumbering Behemoth
Not to mention that it's handy to be able to make a flame at the flick of a thumb, regardless of whether or not you smoke. Zippos are well made tools.
Zippos remind me of my dad. He was NEVER without one.
| 278 |
b_sharp Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:40:26pm |
re: #276 albusteve
if you study Robert Johnson, Hendrix and Clapton will fall right into place...almost every lick known emulates from his stuff
Having Satan as your mentor will do that.
| 279 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:42:17pm |
re: #274 b_sharp
Many love pugs too.
okay, you're a pug...it's been awhile but I spent a fair amount of time in Canada....they deliver their antiAm rhetoric with a smile and I always appreciated that....I like Canada and it's people well enough...cousins are like that and they have always followed us into the fire, no questions asked...damned fine backup
| 280 |
b_sharp Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:43:30pm |
Well, I'm off to bed.
Good discussion tonight folks, I enjoyed it. A little pugilistic interchange once in a while, is good for the soul.
| 281 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:44:21pm |
re: #280 b_sharp
Well, I'm off to bed.
Good discussion tonight folks, I enjoyed it. A little pugilistic interchange once in a while, is good for the soul.
G'nite, b.
| 282 |
What, me worry? Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:44:56pm |
re: #268 ozbloke
Bugger, I'm gonna use an American example this time.
So if a person from the south who you felt supported succession, was being put forward for the Supreme Court nominee would you support him, or do you think what he considered to be patriotic, might influence him in ways you might not support?
This is bugger for anyone who doesn,t know
[Video]
Does everyone have better commercials than we do??
To answer your question, no I wouldn't support him (or her :>) because of the succession ideology. If they defined their patriotism through that, which I'm sure they would, than I guess that's another reason. I don't, however, look at patriotism as a way of supporting someone or not, in and of itself. Does that answer?
You know that Obama will not be caught in public without a flag pin because of the ridiculous bru-ha-ha that went on when he was caught (for shame!) not wearing one.
And btw, I consider myself pretty patriotic. We flew a flag every appropriate holiday till a hurricane blew the flag holder off the house and we keep forgetting to put it back. I wear red, white and blue on Independence Day, I sing songs. It makes me happy! I'm one of those suckers for symbology, and totally aware of how much of a sucker I am.
| 283 |
Mr Pancakes Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:45:25pm |
re: #279 albusteve
okay, you're a pug...it's been awhile but I spent a fair amount of time in Canada...they deliver their antiAm rhetoric with a smile and I always appreciated that...I like Canada and it's people well enough...cousins are like that and they have always followed us into the fire, no questions asked...damned fine backup
America's hat.... the vast majority lives in close proximity of the US border..... must be damn cold up there.
| 284 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:47:16pm |
FYI (if this hasn't come up today)...
AP – Two explosions in central Stockholm killed one person and injured two on Saturday, causing panic among Christmas shoppers.
[snip]
Sweden - which has so far been spared of any large terrorist attacks - raised its terror threat alert level from low to elevated in October because of “a shift in activities” among Swedish-based groups that could be plotting attacks there.
[Link: www.france24.com...]
(editorial - Sure, no "large terrorist attacks," just some assassination, increase of ethnic rapes, ethnic unrest in Malmo, noting large.)
| 285 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:48:00pm |
re: #278 b_sharp
Having Satan as your mentor will do that.
I will not take the time to straighten you out with that myth....but Robert stole that gig from Tommy Johnson, no relation....Robert was a bit of a thief like that...but it makes for great debate
| 286 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:48:47pm |
I guess I'm going to call it a night too. Have fun, everyone.
| 287 |
b_sharp Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:48:52pm |
re: #279 albusteve
okay, you're a pug...it's been awhile but I spent a fair amount of time in Canada...they deliver their antiAm rhetoric with a smile and I always appreciated that...I like Canada and it's people well enough...cousins are like that and they have always followed us into the fire, no questions asked...damned fine backup
Before I go...
There is a fair bit of anti-American sentiment here, but it only applies to those Americans we don't know, all the Americans we do know are good blokes.
We're just as stupid as any other group of humans, we'll fling poo if we have it handy.
Now, the wife is calling, so good night all.
| 288 |
Mr Pancakes Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:49:16pm |
re: #285 albusteve
I will not take the time to straighten you out with that myth...but Robert stole that gig from Tommy Johnson, no relation...Robert was a bit of a thief like that...but it makes for great debate
I'm going to have to play all my Robert Johnson MP3s backwards.
| 290 |
What, me worry? Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:51:04pm |
(They all turn into pumpkins at 1a.m.)
| 291 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:51:17pm |
re: #288 Mr Pancakes
I'm going to have to play all my Robert Johnson MP3s backwards.
better yet, read Robert Palmers brilliant work about the Delta Blues...Deep Blues is the title...fast and easy, it's the bible of that genre
| 292 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:53:46pm |
re: #290 marjoriemoon
(They all turn into pumpkins at 1a.m.)
No... I turn into a over night cashier and shelf stocker at midnight.
| 293 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:55:03pm |
re: #292 Walter L. Newton
No... I turn into a over night cashier and shelf stocker at midnight.
Thats vaguely familiar, is there a princess in that story?
| 294 |
Mr Pancakes Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:55:12pm |
re: #291 albusteve
better yet, read Robert Palmers brilliant work about the Delta Blues...Deep Blues is the title...fast and easy, it's the bible of that genre
I was never too much into the "raw" blues..... but I liked what the English (and some American) bands transformed it into.
| 295 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:55:23pm |
re: #277 CuriousLurker
They are handy to have for a variety of reasons, and though they vary in quality, they are all well made tools.
My favorite so far is one that I don't recall acquiring. Not originally mine, but I don't remember how I came to have it. It is clearly a superior model in the line, yet it has one weird flaw that I find interesting.
On the front, lower surface, where sometimes an image, emblem, or engraving might be found, a significant patch has been ground down from the typical silver surface to the copper colored under-surface.
Not only that, there is evidence of several very deep scratches on top of that grinding, perhaps made by a knife or screwdriver, as if the former owner truly hated whatever used to be there.
In my drunker moments, I often contemplate what could have been there that the previous owner held in such contempt.
| 296 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:57:02pm |
re: #293 ozbloke
Thats vaguely familiar, is there a princess in that story?
No...
I just checked the local temperature... damn, it 12 degrees (f) outside tonight... thank goodness it's only a 12 minute ride to work. I think I'll go outside in a few minutes and start the car and pre-heat it.
| 297 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:57:12pm |
re: #279 albusteve
And record breaking snipers to boot. I got big love for my brothers and sisters to the north.
| 298 |
What, me worry? Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:57:35pm |
re: #296 Walter L. Newton
No...
I just checked the local temperature... damn, it 12 degrees (f) outside tonight... thank goodness it's only a 12 minute ride to work. I think I'll go outside in a few minutes and start the car and pre-heat it.
Sounds like you could use a princess.
| 299 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:58:03pm |
re: #296 Walter L. Newton
No...
I just checked the local temperature... damn, it 12 degrees (f) outside tonight... thank goodness it's only a 12 minute ride to work. I think I'll go outside in a few minutes and start the car and pre-heat it.
Hope your two weekend shifts go quickly for you.
| 300 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:58:41pm |
re: #294 Mr Pancakes
I was never too much into the "raw" blues... but I liked what the English (and some American) bands transformed it into.
I was raised on the raw blues, Son House, Howlin Wolf, Muddy Waters but I certainly enjoy it's aftermath...dig this old dog from Peter Green (Fleetwood Mac)
| 301 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:59:01pm |
| 302 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:00:17pm |
re: #298 marjoriemoon
Sounds like you could use a princess.
My princess just went to bed... they just got back from a high school production of "The Pajama Game." I was lucky, I didn't go, I had to sleep.
Of course I love theatre (if anyone had to be told that), but crappy little stock musicals like "The Pajama Game" combined with a cast of rank amateurs, no... I'm glad I had to sleep.
| 303 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:00:33pm |
re: #297 Slumbering Behemoth
And record breaking snipers to boot. I got big love for my brothers and sisters to the north.
yup, tough as nails and cavalier to boot....what else can you ask of a fighting man....fear the Canuk or pay the price
| 304 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:01:17pm |
re: #296 Walter L. Newton
No...
I just checked the local temperature... damn, it 12 degrees (f) outside tonight... thank goodness it's only a 12 minute ride to work. I think I'll go outside in a few minutes and start the car and pre-heat it.
really...it's 75 here in ABQ
jus kidding
| 305 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:02:42pm |
re: #303 albusteve
Heh. In the desert or on the ice, fear the Canuck or pay the price.
| 306 |
Mr Pancakes Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:03:01pm |
re: #300 albusteve
I was raised on the raw blues, Son House, Howlin Wolf, Muddy Waters but I certainly enjoy it's aftermath...dig this old dog from Peter Green (Fleetwood Mac)
[Video]
I loved Fleetwood Mac..... when Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham joined, they were dead to me.
| 307 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:04:30pm |
re: #299 ozbloke
Hope your two weekend shifts go quickly for you.
They are getting easier, mostly because I'm getting use to them. I actually get busier this week, a really weird schedule... tonight and Sun night over night, two short 4 hour shifts Wed. and Thursday early evening at a check stand, and then next Sat. morning for 6 hours stocking in general merchandise. Thirty hours total... mainly because people are starting to take days off for around the holiday and trying to us up vacation time before they loose it at the end of the year... so as low many seniority wise, I get to fill all the holes.
Better than no job, but not better than programming full time. I did have about 6 hours of programming for my client Kaiser this week. That will pay for a dinner and show in Paris.
Going to start the car... be right back for a few minutes.
| 308 |
Eclectic Infidel Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:05:36pm |
Entitlement reform!?! Doesn't entitlement reform, to hard line libertarians, equate with simply eliminating all entitlements, citizens be damned?
| 309 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:06:43pm |
| 310 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:06:50pm |
re: #295 Slumbering Behemoth
In my drunker moments, I often contemplate what could have been there that the previous owner held in such contempt.
I'll bet there's a reallllyyy interesting story behind that!
| 311 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:07:24pm |
re: #306 Mr Pancakes
I loved Fleetwood Mac... when Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham joined, they were dead to me.
they were dead when Peter Green flipped out and left them....they were a blues band, and one of the best...I cannot even relate to Stevie nicks etc...pop swill at best, total garbage otherwise
| 312 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:07:29pm |
re: #307 Walter L. Newton
They are getting easier, mostly because I'm getting use to them. I actually get busier this week, a really weird schedule... tonight and Sun night over night, two short 4 hour shifts Wed. and Thursday early evening at a check stand, and then next Sat. morning for 6 hours stocking in general merchandise. Thirty hours total... mainly because people are starting to take days off for around the holiday and trying to us up vacation time before they loose it at the end of the year... so as low many seniority wise, I get to fill all the holes.
Better than no job, but not better than programming full time. I did have about 6 hours of programming for my client Kaiser this week. That will pay for a dinner and show in Paris.
Going to start the car... be right back for a few minutes.
I heard your hours had been reduced just before Christmas and France, I was thinking how that sucks. Great to hear you got a few extra shifts. More importantly, glad you got some programming work.
| 313 |
Mr Pancakes Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:08:05pm |
re: #300 albusteve
I was raised on the raw blues, Son House, Howlin Wolf, Muddy Waters but I certainly enjoy it's aftermath...dig this old dog from Peter Green (Fleetwood Mac)
[Video]
Most people would think this is a Santana song...... nope Peter Green.
| 314 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:08:07pm |
re: #305 Slumbering Behemoth
Heh. In the desert or on the ice, fear the Canuck or pay the price.
good one...put it to music
| 315 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:08:51pm |
re: #307 Walter L. Newton
/ I was gonna say I was happy about your trip to France, but it pisses me off.
| 316 |
Mr Pancakes Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:10:14pm |
re: #311 albusteve
they were dead when Peter Green flipped out and left them...they were a blues band, and one of the best...I cannot even relate to Stevie nicks etc...pop swill at best, total garbage otherwise
Ah.... but I loved Danny Kirwan..... that guy could write a song.
| 317 |
simoom Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:10:22pm |
re: #284 Walter L. Newton
FYI (if this hasn't come up today)...
AP – Two explosions in central Stockholm killed one person and injured two on Saturday, causing panic among Christmas shoppers.
Here's a poster on Reddit who claims to have been across the street from one of the explosions (says it blew his left eardrum out) answering questions:
[Link: www.reddit.com...]
A couple excerpts:
I'm fine except the eardrum, and it still feels kind of unreal.I was walking on the opposite side of the street, but at somewhat safe distance from where he blew himself up. I could hear and see him, though. Silence except from the shattering windows, then someone yelled "He blew himself up, he fucking blew himself up!". Then I picked up my cell and called 112.
I was listening to music, so I didn't really pay attention. But there's alot of shopping going on there.
...
It was very surreal. I saw an explosion, but you couldn't really tell that it was him who had blown himself up. The police said that he had several charges on him that didn't go off, and a backpack full of nails.It's still very surreal, but apart from that I feel fine. Except from the eardrum that is.
| 318 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:10:23pm |
re: #313 Mr Pancakes
Most people would think this is a Santana song... nope Peter Green.
[Video]
most people have no musical clue
| 319 |
Kragar Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:10:46pm |
Lost Civilization May Have Existed Beneath the Persian Gulf
Veiled beneath the Persian Gulf, a once-fertile landmass may have supported some of the earliest humans outside Africa some 75,000 to 100,000 years ago, a new review of research suggests.
At its peak, the floodplain now below the Gulf would have been about the size of Great Britain, and then shrank as water began to flood the area. Then, about 8,000 years ago, the land would have been swallowed up by the Indian Ocean, the review scientist said.
The study, which is detailed in the December issue of the journal Current Anthropology, has broad implications for aspects of human history. For instance, scientists have debated over when early modern humans exited Africa, with dates as early as 125,000 years ago and as recent as 60,000 years ago (the more recent date is the currently accepted paradigm), according to study researcher Jeffrey Rose, an archaeologist at the University of Birmingham in the U.K.
| 320 |
Amory Blaine Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:11:06pm |
re: #300 albusteve
I was raised on the raw blues, Son House, Howlin Wolf, Muddy Waters but I certainly enjoy it's aftermath...dig this old dog from Peter Green (Fleetwood Mac)
[Video]
Maybe You Like this Cat?
| 321 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:12:00pm |
re: #319 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
some really ancient stuff off the coast of India as well...we know very little
| 322 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:12:12pm |
re: #312 ozbloke
I heard your hours had been reduced just before Christmas and France, I was thinking how that sucks. Great to hear you got a few extra shifts. More importantly, glad you got some programming work.
Back... care warming up... (oh, that wasteful American, running a car for 10 minutes in the driveway).
Yep... a computer system decides how many hours of coverage a store needs, and tell us how many employees can be scheduled. Doesn't matter is we are busier than the computer has predicted, doesn't matter if there are factors that change our labor needs that the computer can't account for, all that matter is the computer tells us what to do, we have to do it.
| 323 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:12:51pm |
re: #317 simoom
Thanks for the follow up.
| 324 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:13:07pm |
re: #320 Amory Blaine
Maybe You Like this Cat?
[Video]
yeah, he's an original all right with a huge following...as for me, he's a bit too rustic
| 325 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:14:34pm |
re: #315 ozbloke
/ I was gonna say I was happy about your trip to France, but it pisses me off.
I've been scrimping and saving for a couple of years. It's not like the past, when I was full time programming and the ex-wife an I could plan a jaunt to Europe almost at a whim.
If you ever make it to the US, Colorado, you have free room and board if you need it.
That's offer has always been open to all Lizards, and some have taken advantage of it.
| 326 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:15:11pm |
re: #310 CuriousLurker
I'll bet there's a realllyyy interesting story behind that!
In my head, I've thought of many. In reality...
I suppose I'll never know. But it is still a damn fine, well crafted Zippo. It just has a rather unique scar that refuses to tell it's tale. Perhaps that is why I like it as much as I do.
| 327 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:15:30pm |
re: #324 albusteve
yeah, he's an original all right with a huge following...as for me, he's a bit too rustic
not to say i don't like him..I do...he's carrying the torch, but so has Kieth Richards who gets no credit at all in that regard....this thing is the most important part of what my music means to me
| 328 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:15:41pm |
re: #322 Walter L. Newton
Back... care warming up... (oh, that wasteful American, running a car for 10 minutes in the driveway).
Yep... a computer system decides how many hours of coverage a store needs, and tell us how many employees can be scheduled. Doesn't matter is we are busier than the computer has predicted, doesn't matter if there are factors that change our labor needs that the computer can't account for, all that matter is the computer tells us what to do, we have to do it.
Modern technology.
I'm still hanging out for the flying car's I thought we would have growing up in the sixties, and this is what we get!
| 329 |
Kragar Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:16:14pm |
re: #322 Walter L. Newton
The Computer is your friend. All others are communists.
| 330 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:16:14pm |
re: #304 albusteve
really...it's 75 here in ABQ
jus kidding
Don't forget... I'm expecting your butt up here sometime this winter or spring...
| 331 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:16:32pm |
re: #326 Slumbering Behemoth
In my head, I've thought of many. In reality...
I suppose I'll never know. But it is still a damn fine, well crafted Zippo. It just has a rather unique scar that refuses to tell it's tale. Perhaps that is why I like it as much as I do.
grazed by a bullet and saved the life of a good man...that's my story...seize it
| 332 |
Amory Blaine Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:17:06pm |
I don't know if you guys have seen this before it's called the Antikythera Mechanism. One of the oldest computer known. It's like 2000 yrs old.
An engineer from Apple built a replica out of legos. Here's a link to a cool video of the machine.
| 333 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:17:15pm |
re: #314 albusteve
I was thinking more along the lines of a limerick. I don't have any song writing talent.
| 334 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:17:29pm |
re: #325 Walter L. Newton
I've been scrimping and saving for a couple of years. It's not like the past, when I was full time programming and the ex-wife an I could plan a jaunt to Europe almost at a whim.
If you ever make it to the US, Colorado, you have free room and board if you need it.
That's offer has always been open to all Lizards, and some have taken advantage of it.
Thats Walter, Its one thing I have never done but always wanted too.
I'd like 12 months to travel, its a big country with a lot of cultures.
| 335 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:19:00pm |
re: #334 ozbloke
Thats Walter, Its one thing I have never done but always wanted too.
I'd like 12 months to travel, its a big country with a lot of cultures.
s/Thats/Thanks/1
| 336 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:19:05pm |
re: #330 Walter L. Newton
Don't forget... I'm expecting your butt up here sometime this winter or spring...
my latest surgery, this past week, set me back three months amigo....that I'm hugely disappointed is an understatement....but I'm committed and that's that....I'm not in charge of the timeline, it will happen
| 337 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:19:50pm |
re: #332 Amory Blaine
I don't know if you guys have seen this before it's called the Antikythera Mechanism. One of the oldest computer known. It's like 2000 yrs old.
An engineer from Apple built a replica out of legos. Here's a link to a cool video of the machine.
I know of it...the Leggo thing is pretty cool
| 338 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:20:34pm |
re: #336 albusteve
my latest surgery, this past week, set me back three months amigo...that I'm hugely disappointed is an understatement...but I'm committed and that's that...I'm not in charge of the timeline, it will happen
Righto.
| 339 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:21:25pm |
Ok...
Princess is in bed, the kids are in bed, two cats, two dogs sleeping, Maisey the Parrot is sleeping, car is warm, I'm off to work...
Night all. See you in AM.
| 340 |
Mr Pancakes Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:22:47pm |
re: #336 albusteve
my latest surgery, this past week, set me back three months amigo...that I'm hugely disappointed is an understatement...but I'm committed and that's that...I'm not in charge of the timeline, it will happen
Steve..... If I read you correctly the other day you said you have some of your leg left below the knee? If so .... that's huge. My neighbor lost his leg above his knee..... it's a massive struggle, especially with the artificial leg.
| 341 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:22:48pm |
re: #319 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Speaking of really old school WTFs...
| 342 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:24:47pm |
| 343 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:25:05pm |
I believe there are lost civilizations, with their higher order than we know of....if life outside our universe is acceptable, and it is to me, then what do we not know about previous realms here on our own planet...to think we have constructed the past with finality is ludicrous to me...what's under the Antarctic snow mass?
| 344 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:25:31pm |
re: #322 Walter L. Newton
Back... care warming up... (oh, that wasteful American, running a car for 10 minutes in the driveway).
Yep... a computer system decides how many hours of coverage a store needs, and tell us how many employees can be scheduled. Doesn't matter is we are busier than the computer has predicted, doesn't matter if there are factors that change our labor needs that the computer can't account for, all that matter is the computer tells us what to do, we have to do it.
No, I don't miss retail. Computerized crap like that is how I lost my job with Sprint. Didn't matter that the additional staff helped keep wait times down and guarded against rushes and absences, the bean-counting programs told the higher-ups the store was "overstaffed" and they sent orders to fire people. Programs like that are box of rocks. The chain you work for should give you a raise and have you write them a better program.
| 345 |
Mr Pancakes Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:26:10pm |
re: #343 albusteve
I believe there are lost civilizations, with their higher order than we know of...if life outside our universe is acceptable, and it is to me, then what do we not know about previous realms here on our own planet...to think we have constructed the past with finality is ludicrous to me...what's under the Antarctic snow mass?
Jimmy Hoffa, Amelia Earhart, and the missing link.
| 346 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:26:47pm |
re: #340 Mr Pancakes
Steve... If I read you correctly the other day you said you have some of your leg left below the knee? If so ... that's huge. My neighbor lost his leg above his knee... it's a massive struggle, especially with the artificial leg.
yes, I know...I've dodged that nightmare so far...you cannot only wonder how something like this changes your life....boom!. just like that...it's very humbling
| 347 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:26:51pm |
re: #339 Walter L. Newton
Ok...
Princess is in bed, the kids are in bed, two cats, two dogs sleeping, Maisey the Parrot is sleeping, car is warm, I'm off to work...
Night all. See you in AM.
Good fortune at work, Walter.
| 348 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:27:58pm |
re: #336 albusteve
Rooting for you, as always bro. Even when we lock horns, I still wish you the best.
| 349 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:28:49pm |
re: #345 Mr Pancakes
Jimmy Hoffa, Amelia Earhart, and the missing link.
Amelia maybe...Jimmy not so much...he's in the Meadowlands north endzone and the feds know it
| 350 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:30:04pm |
re: #348 Slumbering Behemoth
Rooting for you, as always bro. Even when we lock horns, I still wish you the best.
I know you do, and it means alot to me....I'm no stranger to LGF and all the fine folks here...you rise above the petty stuff....thanks
| 351 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:31:06pm |
re: #347 Dark_Falcon
Good fortune at work, Walter.
I wonder if he fusses around with the cash registers after hours?...ya think?
| 352 |
Mr Pancakes Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:31:20pm |
re: #350 albusteve
I know you do, and it means alot to me...I'm no stranger to LGF and all the fine folks here...you rise above the petty stuff...thanks
All right... that kind of talk is going to get you a time-out.
/
| 353 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:32:43pm |
re: #351 albusteve
I wonder if he fusses around with the cash registers after hours?...ya think?
Nah. Walter's not the kind to take stupid chances. And most computers used as registers are locked down pretty tight. Even if you could mess with them, it would gain you nothing.
| 354 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:32:59pm |
re: #352 Mr Pancakes
All right... that kind of talk is going to get you a time-out.
/
heh, I'm an expert now...we'll see...Charles knows when to smack me, he's pretty sharp like that
| 355 |
Mr Pancakes Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:33:46pm |
re: #354 albusteve
heh, I'm an expert now...we'll see...Charles knows when to smack me, he's pretty sharp like that
Well don't lose your edge...... that's what we like about you!
| 356 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:35:22pm |
re: #353 Dark_Falcon
Nah. Walter's not the kind to take stupid chances. And most computers used as registers are locked down pretty tight. Even if you could mess with them, it would gain you nothing.
well shoot....I just wondered is all, seems like he could disguise himself as a FedEx nerd and walk out with a box full of cash...I saw them do it on TV
| 357 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:36:20pm |
re: #355 Mr Pancakes
Well don't lose your edge... that's what we like about you!
tell him that...I suspect he has his limits, as much as I respect him
| 358 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:39:09pm |
re: #350 albusteve
you rise above the petty stuff
I try. I don't always succeed, but I try.
Besides, I like talking shit with you. You have some really thick skin, and I swear I can feel mine get thicker every time we verbally spar.
And who knows, one of these nights when the stars are properly aligned (or more accurately, when my wallet properly thickens) I'll be able to come kick it with you, and put some small ordnance through a few cacti.
| 359 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:39:45pm |
re: #356 albusteve
well shoot...I just wondered is all, seems like he could disguise himself as a FedEx nerd and walk out with a box full of cash...I saw them do it on TV
What you didn't see is where the thief got caught and sent to prison. not a thing to try.
| 360 |
prairiefire Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:39:54pm |
re: #332 Amory Blaine
I don't know if you guys have seen this before it's called the Antikythera Mechanism. One of the oldest computer known. It's like 2000 yrs old.
An engineer from Apple built a replica out of legos. Here's a link to a cool video of the machine.
Fantastic!
| 361 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:43:39pm |
re: #358 Slumbering Behemoth
I try. I don't always succeed, but I try.
Besides, I like talking shit with you. You have some really thick skin, and I swear I can feel mine get thicker every time we verbally spar.
And who knows, one of these nights when the stars are properly aligned (or more accurately, when my wallet properly thickens) I'll be able to come kick it with you, and put some small ordnance through a few cacti.
yeah baybee!....ker pow!
I'm one of the few leftovers...got in towards the end of the spectacular flame wars, and lurked for two years before that...you gotta dig in a defend the defenseless sometimes and cover people getting slammed unfairly...but not every post is debatable...I'm pretty easy going and try to have fun...I learn and learn here
| 362 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:45:48pm |
re: #359 Dark_Falcon
What you didn't see is where the thief got caught and sent to prison. not a thing to try.
I went to pee and missed that part you buzzkill...but I heed to your advice and promise not to knock over a grocery store anytime soon
| 363 |
Mr Pancakes Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:46:19pm |
re: #361 albusteve
yeah baybee!...ker pow!
I'm one of the few leftovers...got in towards the end of the spectacular flame wars, and lurked for two years before that...you gotta dig in a defend the defenseless sometimes and cover people getting slammed unfairly...but not every post is debatable...I'm pretty easy going and try to have fun...I learn and learn here
That's a false dichotomy and you are being disingenuous.
Why are you lying?
/
| 364 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:46:54pm |
| 365 |
prairiefire Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:46:57pm |
Richard Holbrook has a torn aorta:[Link: news.yahoo.com...]
| 366 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:47:48pm |
re: #363 Mr Pancakes
That's a false dichotomy and you are being disingenuous.
Why are you lying?
/
I have big ONES!
| 367 |
Mr Pancakes Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:48:07pm |
| 368 |
prairiefire Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:48:23pm |
re: #364 albusteve
isn't it?...what the hell is next?...are you beefed up for 2012?
I think I'm too beefed up for 2012. The austerity diet is next. It's just a wonder to watch my kids grow and be happy.
Bring it, 2012!
| 369 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:48:52pm |
| 370 |
lostlakehiker Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:49:54pm |
re: #343 albusteve
I believe there are lost civilizations, with their higher order than we know of...if life outside our universe is acceptable, and it is to me, then what do we not know about previous realms here on our own planet...to think we have constructed the past with finality is ludicrous to me...what's under the Antarctic snow mass?
Some damned cold rock.
| 371 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:50:03pm |
re: #365 prairiefire
Richard Holbrook has a torn aorta:[Link: news.yahoo.com...]
He's got a good chance of pulling through, but he's going to be on the shelf for a long while.
| 372 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:50:55pm |
re: #361 albusteve
I learn and learn here
As do I, always, from folks who hail from all manner of political and social persuasions.
It is not my intent to genuflect, but I consider my membership here a great privilege.
| 373 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:52:48pm |
re: #368 prairiefire
I think I'm too beefed up for 2012. The austerity diet is next. It's just a wonder to watch my kids grow and be happy.
Bring it, 2012!
if that's the case, I'm ready, because nothing can save me otherwise...I hope it doesn't hurt too much for us sinners
| 374 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:53:20pm |
Easy:Palin goes to Haiti
Challenge:meets only white folks
Win!
| 375 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:53:49pm |
| 376 |
prairiefire Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:55:35pm |
| 377 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:56:51pm |
| 378 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:58:12pm |
re: #374 Killgore Trout
Sarah or Michael?
/Oy. If ever there were two Palins so drastically divergent...
| 379 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:58:33pm |
re: #376 prairiefire
I'm sure that had to be the cleanest visit to Haiti evah.
Ive been drinking so it's not wise for me to add silly captions to pics like these.....
[Link: www.daylife.com...]
[Link: www.daylife.com...]
My favorite...
[Link: www.daylife.com...]
| 380 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 10:59:34pm |
re: #374 Killgore Trout
Easy:Palin goes to Haiti
Challenge:meets only white folks
Win!
I dunno, Killgore. She's in at least three photos with black people on that page. She's not interacting with them, but then again they don't speak the same language. But she went down there with Franklin Graham, and he's unlikely to let a perception of racism creep into his charity work in Haiti (even if you don't like him, his desire to help down there is sincere).
| 381 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:00:15pm |
re: #379 Killgore Trout
I'll give the msm funny points for the caption....
Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, center, has her hair done during a visit to a cholera treatment center set up by the NGO Samaritan's Purse in Cabaret, Haiti, Saturday Dec. 11, 2010.
| 382 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:01:44pm |
re: #380 Dark_Falcon
I'm not outrageously outraged but the pics are probably going to get some play in the press. Probably doesn't look good.
| 383 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:01:44pm |
re: #379 Killgore Trout
Ive been drinking so it's not wise for me to add silly captions to pics like these...
[Link: www.daylife.com...][Link: www.daylife.com...]
My favorite...
[Link: www.daylife.com...]
to be fair...did she put up these pics?...did she not visit black people?...these pictures just show what Daylife wants you to see...maybe, maybe not old chum
| 384 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:01:59pm |
re: #381 Killgore Trout
I'll give the msm funny points for the caption...
UBER FAIL by Palin. She should be seen as helping, not fussing over appearances.
| 385 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:03:39pm |
re: #384 Dark_Falcon
UBER FAIL by Palin. She should be seen as helping, not fussing over appearances.
Yeah, it's not important but her getting her hair done while visiting people dying from cholera isn't going to play well. Bad pr.
| 386 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:03:46pm |
re: #384 Dark_Falcon
UBER FAIL by Palin. She should be seen as helping, not fussing over appearances.
did she make the call on which pics get posted?...sounds like a conspiracy brewing over your way
| 387 |
prairiefire Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:04:45pm |
re: #379 Killgore Trout
Ive been drinking so it's not wise for me to add silly captions to pics like these...
[Link: www.daylife.com...][Link: www.daylife.com...]
My favorite...
[Link: www.daylife.com...]
how to caption that facial expression? "Ick." "Gross". 'OMG." "Get me the Hell out of here."
| 389 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:06:15pm |
re: #386 albusteve
did she make the call on which pics get posted?...sounds like a conspiracy brewing over your way
No, she didn't make that call, but she's got enemies and she should have known better. She handed those who don't like her a stick with which to beat her, and doing that is never smart.
| 390 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:08:26pm |
re: #389 Dark_Falcon
No, she didn't make that call, but she's got enemies and she should have known better. She handed those who don't like her a stick with which to beat her, and doing that is never smart.
what stick?...did it ever occur to you that you might be used?...it's just a bunch of pictures, how can you read so much into it....maybe someone wants you to think the way you do....so is she a racist now?....hahaha!
| 391 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:10:34pm |
re: #390 albusteve
what stick?...did it ever occur to you that you might be used?...it's just a bunch of pictures, how can you read so much into it...maybe someone wants you to think the way you do...so is she a racist now?...hahaha!
I'm no Palin fan, but it's silly to draw these conclusions from a few pics...maybe there is more to it....jumping to conclusions seems unseemly
| 392 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:11:14pm |
re: #373 albusteve
We the Heathens, in Order to form a more perfect Defiance, establish gigantic Middle Fingers, Insure the domestic Vexing of those who deem Their god should be Our god, Provide for the Common Offense, promote the General Hellfire, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posteriors, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United Assholes of America. Fuck you all.
| 393 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:13:47pm |
re: #390 albusteve
what stick?...did it ever occur to you that you might be used?...it's just a bunch of pictures, how can you read so much into it...maybe someone wants you to think the way you do...so is she a racist now?...hahaha!
If I were sober (which I'm not) I'd post a page (which I won't) and it would be picked up by Gawker, Wonkette, Huffpooo, Boing boing and maybe Media matters, Think Progress in the morning.But I'm not and I won't. It's not important but it looks bad, It'll make the rounds.
| 394 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:13:49pm |
re: #379 Killgore Trout
Ive been drinking so it's not wise for me to add silly captions to pics like these...
Oh? Sounds like the perfect time to do so to me.
/been drinking myself. prolly not wise to take my advice on anything right now.
| 395 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:14:57pm |
re: #391 albusteve
I'm no Palin fan, but it's silly to draw these conclusions from a few pics...maybe there is more to it...jumping to conclusions seems unseemly
I'm not jumping, but there are people who are Palin-haters. And those people will try to take those photos out of context. She should be aware of the risks of that happening and make sure she is seen to be doing the correct things.
| 396 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:16:23pm |
re: #393 Killgore Trout
If I were sober (which I'm not) I'd post a page (which I won't) and it would be picked up by Gawker, Wonkette, Huffpooo, Boing boing and maybe Media matters, Think Progress in the morning.But I'm not and I won't. It's not important but it looks bad, It'll make the rounds.
Killgore, I'm going to suggest this might be time for you to observe the IF Rule and sign off for the night.
| 397 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:16:33pm |
Another bad caption....
[Link: www.daylife.com...]
Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin is pictured through the windshield of a car while rubbing her hands with hand sanitizer after visiting a cholera treatment center run by Rev. Franklin Graham's relief organization Samaritan's Purse in Cabaret, Haiti, Saturday Dec. 11, 2010.
I'm tellin' ya, this will make news next week.
| 398 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:17:47pm |
re: #397 Killgore Trout
Another bad caption...
[Link: www.daylife.com...]
I'm tellin' ya, this will make news next week.
Actually, using hand sanitizer is smart in that case. Nothing wrong with that.
| 399 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:17:48pm |
re: #393 Killgore Trout
Medea - Sarah, Sarah - Medea. Different ideologies, common theme.
| 400 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:17:52pm |
re: #392 Slumbering Behemoth
We the Heathens, in Order to form a more perfect Defiance, establish gigantic Middle Fingers, Insure the domestic Vexing of those who deem Their god should be Our god, Provide for the Common Offense, promote the General Hellfire, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posteriors, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United Assholes of America. Fuck you all.
where do I sign?....I'll even sweep the floors
| 401 |
goddamnedfrank Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:18:38pm |
re: #380 Dark_Falcon
I dunno, Killgore. She's in at least three photos with black people on that page. She's not interacting with them, but then again they don't speak the same language. But she went down there with Franklin Graham, and he's unlikely to let a perception of racism creep into his charity work in Haiti (even if you don't like him, his desire to help down there is sincere).
LOL, Franklin "The seed of Islam is passed through the father" Graham don't cotton to no racism.
"Now it's obvious that the president has renounced the prophet Mohammed, and he has renounced Islam, and he has accepted Jesus Christ. That's what he says he has done. I cannot say that he hasn't. So I just have to believe that the president is what he has said,"
I'm just saying I don't know, I have to believe him, hands tied and whatnot. Common courtesy demands that I not directly express my suspicion that the President is a day walking vampire, because of you know, the seed.
| 402 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:20:00pm |
re: #395 Dark_Falcon
I'm not jumping, but there are people who are Palin-haters. And those people will try to take those photos out of context. She should be aware of the risks of that happening and make sure she is seen to be doing the correct things.
does she have any control over the motives of the photographers or what Daylife posts?...jus askin
| 403 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:21:02pm |
re: #401 goddamnedfrank
He was talking about a religion. Since when is Islam a race?
I grant it was a stupid thing to say and an even more foolish thing to believe.
| 404 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:22:47pm |
re: #402 albusteve
does she have any control over the motives of the photographers or what Daylife posts?...jus askin
I do not know, but I'd guess not.
| 405 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:22:53pm |
re: #396 Dark_Falcon
Killgore, I'm going to suggest this might be time for you to observe the IF Rule and sign off for the night.
I'm almost done for the night. I'm not gonna do anything stupid.
| 406 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:24:29pm |
| 407 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:25:51pm |
re: #398 Dark_Falcon
Actually, using hand sanitizer is smart in that case. Nothing wrong with that.
what hand sanitizer?...good grief...maybe the caption should read, "Palin rubs hands together after doing lines with paparazzi"
| 408 |
simoom Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:25:53pm |
re: #391 albusteve
I'm no Palin fan, but it's silly to draw these conclusions from a few pics...maybe there is more to it...jumping to conclusions seems unseemly
I have to be honest here. While I'm no fan of fmr Gov Palin, I'm with albusteve on this one. If all we are responding to are those three photos, I just can't take any issue with her daughter fixing a pin in her hair.
While it's hard for me to resist seeing the FNC/Van Susteren retinue following her about her brief visit as somewhat unseemly self promotion, if she uses the opportunity to advocate for gov aide or to raise money (assuming Franklin Graham's charity is effective) I won't begrudge her the publicity.
| 409 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:27:10pm |
re: #405 Killgore Trout
I'm almost done for the night. I'm not gonna do anything stupid.
Iluvuman!....you can do something stupid if you need to....LOL!
| 410 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:27:42pm |
re: #403 Dark_Falcon
Since when is Islam a race?
It's a common theme for both radical apologists and radical critics. *sigh*
But Islam no more an "ethnic race" than is Scientology. But I explain the obvious to those who already know this.
| 411 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:28:16pm |
re: #409 albusteve
Iluvuman!...you can do something stupid if you need to...LOL!
hold my beer...Watch this!
whoooooo...thud!
| 412 |
goddamnedfrank Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:28:39pm |
re: #403 Dark_Falcon
He was talking about a religion. Since when is Islam a race?
When it started descending through blood in the minds of those opposed to it, that opposition became racist.
| 413 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:28:52pm |
re: #411 HoosierHoops
hold my beer...Watch this!
whooo...thud!
sup you night owl?....just getting in?
| 414 |
freetoken Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:29:51pm |
re: #379 Killgore Trout
To my hypersensitive skin, it all seems a bit too much like ... well, like when there's an accident down the street and you just have to go out and look at it until the whole mess is cleaned up.
| 415 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:30:18pm |
| 416 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:31:27pm |
re: #405 Killgore Trout
I'm almost done for the night. I'm not gonna do anything stupid.
Stick around, I might. I've already left my pants far behind. It's only a matter of time before I start linking midget pr0n and drinking kerosene.
| 417 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:31:46pm |
There Will Be Blood Deleted Scene: "FISHING"
| 418 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:33:22pm |
re: #400 albusteve
where do I sign?...I'll even sweep the floors
Dude! You're like, one of the Founding Bastards. No floor sweeping for you!
| 419 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:33:25pm |
| 420 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:35:31pm |
re: #418 Slumbering Behemoth
Dude! You're like, one of the Founding Bastards. No floor sweeping for you!
then I'll tend bar...my specialty
would you like your kerosene straight up?
| 421 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:36:37pm |
re: #420 albusteve
then I'll tend bar...my specialty
would you like your kerosene straight up?
shaken not stirred
| 422 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:37:06pm |
re: #420 albusteve
Neat, with a diesel back.
| 423 |
freetoken Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:38:30pm |
Totally off topic (is there a topic??) - the tentacles of Sailer-type of "scientific" racism have been spreading, oh so slowly, around parts of the blogosphere. There are a couple of examples I can think of off the top of my head, one which is rather egregious IMO.
Sooner or probably later I ought to write up a Page about it. There are some things happening under the covers in our (greater and electronic) society, including within the science-literate parts, that are just as disturbing in their implications as OrionXP's latest Page.
| 424 |
Kragar Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:38:53pm |
| 425 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:40:25pm |
Somebody from work did a road trip this weekend to Texas and is coming back here with REAL BEER...Real Bud light! It's like Gold in Oklahoma...I'm giddy..It's been 2 months
| 426 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:49:48pm |
Global Warming wreaks havoc on the NFL
[Link: sports.yahoo.com...]
| 427 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:52:19pm |
re: #426 albusteve
Global Warming wreaks havoc on the NFL
[Link: sports.yahoo.com...]
Farve will goto the HOF.. And no team will love him..what a fall from grace
| 428 |
Kragar Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:52:19pm |
WikiLeaks backlash all bark, no bite: experts
Over the past week, the Internet has rung with a call to virtual arms by "Anonymous," a band of computer hackers that has targeted websites of Visa, Mastercard, PayPal and others for cutting off WikiLeaks access to funds.
"The war is on," the group has proclaimed, vowing to attack any entity with an "anti-WikiLeas agenda."
But the campaign has fallen short of a real cyber war, said James Lewis, a specialist in cybersecurity at the Center for International and Strategic Studies, a Washington think tank.
"I would say that a war involves damage and destruction. This is more like a noisy political demonstration, like a mob surrounding a bank and refusing to let anyone in or out. It's not war," he said.
"For me, this is political theater, kabuki -- entertaining and perhaps influential, but much less than war."
| 429 |
albusteve Sat, Dec 11, 2010 11:58:26pm |
re: #427 HoosierHoops
Farve will goto the HOF.. And no team will love him..what a fall from grace
I said let him play when he went to Minny, leave him alone because he earned it...and look at his season...but every season is different and it's obvious his time is up and it's unfair to the kid behind him, Tarvaris Jackson...give it up Bret, I've been a huge fan for your entire career but the team comes first...it will be interesting to see what happens tomorrow
| 430 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 12, 2010 12:03:28am |
uproar over enforcing the law!....addictions can be hard to break
[Link: minnesota.cbslocal.com...]
but you gotta start somewhere
| 431 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 12, 2010 12:07:42am |
“This is a lack of leadership on the part of Obama,” fumed Moran (D-Va.) “I don’t know where the f*** Obama is on this or anything else. They’re AWOL.”
some dems hate BO more than even republicans!
[Link: thehill.com...]
| 433 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Dec 12, 2010 12:10:04am |
| 434 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 12, 2010 12:11:22am |
re: #428 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
From the end of an article I posted earlier today.
Cyber attackers, or "hacktivists", have been targeting those they perceive as opponents of WikiLeaks, including companies who in recent days have deprived the organisation of their services.
However, the internet activist group Anonymous, which brought down the websites of credit card giants MasterCard and Visa this week, says it has abandoned its strategy of online attacks.
In an overnight blog post, Anonymous announced a change of strategy, saying it now aims to publish the US diplomatic cables as widely as possible and in ways that makes them as hard as possible to trace.
"We have, at best, given them a black eye. The game has changed. When the game changes, so too must our strategies," said the blog post as it announces "Operation: Leakspin".
- AFP/Reuters
| 435 |
Kragar Sun, Dec 12, 2010 12:16:47am |
re: #434 ozbloke
Its all fun and games till they get caught under 18 U.S.C. § 793 : US Code - Section 793: Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information or other similar statutes
| 436 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 12, 2010 12:20:00am |
re: #435 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Its all fun and games till they get caught under 18 U.S.C. § 793 : US Code - Section 793: Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information or other similar statutes
Do you believe either of the two that have been arrested in Europe can be charged under this law?
| 437 |
Kragar Sun, Dec 12, 2010 12:21:35am |
re: #436 ozbloke
Do you believe either of the two that have been arrested in Europe can be charged under this law?
I believe it will be an issue for diplomats to answer and probably covered under legal treaties we have with foreign governments.
| 438 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 12, 2010 12:24:36am |
re: #437 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I believe it will be an issue for diplomats to answer and probably covered under legal treaties we have with foreign governments.
Do you have any faith that the Dutch courts would deal with the two acceptably?
| 439 |
Kragar Sun, Dec 12, 2010 12:29:42am |
re: #438 ozbloke
Do you have any faith that the Dutch courts would deal with the two acceptably?
It remains to be seen. I can guarantee any network members found in the US are going to have a very, very bad time.
| 440 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 12, 2010 12:31:12am |
re: #439 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
It remains to be seen. I can guarantee any network members found in the US are going to have a very, very bad time.
Interesting times, I'm confident governments around the world will seek ways of avoiding this in the future, to as much as they are able.
| 441 |
Kragar Sun, Dec 12, 2010 12:33:47am |
re: #440 ozbloke
Interesting times, I'm confident governments around the world will seek ways of avoiding this in the future, to as much as they are able.
Governments worldwide now have a vested interested in a more restrictive, controlled internet.
| 442 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 12, 2010 12:35:17am |
re: #441 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Governments worldwide now have a vested interested in a more restrictive, controlled internet.
Sadly, you are correct.
| 444 |
TedStriker Sun, Dec 12, 2010 12:40:08am |
re: #365 prairiefire
Richard Holbrook has a torn aorta:[Link: news.yahoo.com...]
Slightly less severe than the dissected aorta (IIRC) that killed John Ritter...
| 445 |
Kragar Sun, Dec 12, 2010 1:26:59am |
If they hadn't broken Dutch law before, they have now:
Hackers target Dutch police and prosecutors' websites
After arresting a 16-year-old for his suspected involvement with the hactivist group Anonymous, the group has now launched an attack on the websites for Dutch police and prosecutors.
The attack comes only days after the youth was arrested for allegedly taking part in pro-WikiLeaks retribution attacks on financial payment websites and affected the websites sporadically, according to Associated Press reports.
| 446 |
laZardo Sun, Dec 12, 2010 1:50:31am |
Speaking of Alex Jones, this wallpaper at the current Wikileaks host includes the BILLDURRBURRG meetings in its list of "exposures."
That it also includes the Scientology documents on that same "shelf" makes me wonder if some Anon donated the wallpaper.
| 447 |
Kragar Sun, Dec 12, 2010 2:26:21am |
re: #446 laZardo
Speaking of Alex Jones, this wallpaper at the current Wikileaks host includes the BILLDURRBURRG meetings in its list of "exposures."
That it also includes the Scientology documents on that same "shelf" makes me wonder if some Anon donated the wallpaper.
Probably. The design credits are connected to the hackers.
| 448 |
Kragar Sun, Dec 12, 2010 2:53:40am |
Reports from the Netherlands are saying a Judge ruled the police can keep hackers in custody for 14 days without pressing charges while they investigate the cases.
| 450 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:49:06am |
re: #427 HoosierHoops
Brett Farve will enter permanent retirement as a cripple. A.E. Houseman will make a lot of sense to Farve his second year out.
| 451 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:49:44am |
An interesting piece at DailyKos:
[Link: www.dailykos.com...]
"Muslims for Bush" founder quits GOP, joins Dems
| 452 |
laZardo Sun, Dec 12, 2010 5:58:29am |
re: #450 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Brett Farve will enter permanent retirement as a cripple. A.E. Houseman will make a lot of sense to Farve his second year out.
I never understood why it's pronounced like that and spelled differently. Like Dwyane Wade.
| 454 |
Nervous Norvous Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:34:36am |
re: #450 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Brett Farve will enter permanent retirement as a cripple. A.E. Houseman will make a lot of sense to Farve his second year out.
A.E. Houseman was my father's favorite poet next to Robert W Service.
I read this poem at his funeral
With rue my heart is laden
for golden friends I've had
for many a rose lip't maiden
for many a lightfoot lad
By brooks too broad for leaping
The lightfoot boys are laid;
The rose-lipt girls are sleeping
In fields where roses fade.
| 455 |
NJDhockeyfan Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:44:32am |
Metrodome roof collapses, status of Giants-Vikings uncertain
Metrodome officials convinced the NFL to move the Giants-Vikings back a day due to safety concerns.
It turned out to be a very wise decision when the roof of the stadium collapsed overnight under the weight of snow from a blizzard.
The NFL is investigating its options on where to play the game. On possibility likely being tossed around is TCF Bank Stadium, where the University of Minnesota's football team plays its games. However, that stadium only holds 50,085, whereas the Metrodome seats over 60,000. Plus, it's an outdoor venue, so it'll take quite an effort to remove the snow before Monday night's scheduled kickoff.
| 456 |
darthstar Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:54:42am |
re: #455 NJDhockeyfan
Metrodome roof collapses, status of Giants-Vikings uncertain
The Vikings need to return to playing outside again...they were much better when they had to face the elements...it made 'em mean.
| 457 |
McSpiff Sun, Dec 12, 2010 6:55:34am |
re: #104 Shiplord Kirel
Are Americans the only ones guilty of this lawless patriotism of which you accuse us?
I am fed up with this bullshit. You and your mates probably sit around and laugh about how much shit the stupid seppos take from you while you trumpet your own superiority at literally every opportunity. It is the same throughout the Anglophone drunkosphere: Canucks, Kiwis, Ozzies, and Brits, defend their own nations and boast of their superiority without reservation at literally every opportunity while it is only American patriotism that is disreputable. I have literally never seen an Australian direct the kind of criticism at his own country that we routinely see directed at the USA by people all over the world, including many Americans.
This is not because you believe in justice, but because you are blinded by your own jingoism and the sublime assurance of your superiority, unable to recognize your own bigotry for what it really is.
You'd sing a goddamned different tune if Assange wasn't one of yours and his favorite target wasn't the same as yours.
What an absolutely top-to-bottom bullshit post. You have extremely narrow view of the world if you somehow think citizens of other countries simply attack America instead of their own countries. How you could come up with something so simple minded I have no idea, but in a digital age I can only assume it takes some sort of absolutely willful ignorance. Dumbass.
| 458 |
darthstar Sun, Dec 12, 2010 7:30:24am |
Okay, this guy's obviously a bit of a jerk, but he does know how to fuck with people... Mornin' everyone.
| 459 |
darthstar Sun, Dec 12, 2010 7:35:50am |
re: #458 darthstar
Okay, this guy's obviously a bit of a jerk, but he does know how to fuck with people... Mornin' everyone.
| 460 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 12, 2010 7:41:21am |
re: #455 NJDhockeyfan
Metrodome roof collapses, status of Giants-Vikings uncertain
It matters little. Whether the they play indoors or outdoors, the Giants will clobber the Vikings just the same.
| 461 |
darthstar Sun, Dec 12, 2010 8:02:14am |
re: #460 Dark_Falcon
It matters little. Whether the they play indoors or outdoors, the Giants will clobber the Vikings just the same.
Don't go talkin' shit about the Vikings like that...I'll open a can of virtual whoop-ass on you so bad you won't even visit the Dora the Explorer website after I'm done with you.
Hey, at least I didn't downding you!
Peace.
| 462 |
A Man for all Seasons Sun, Dec 12, 2010 8:05:12am |
re: #461 darthstar
Don't go talkin' shit about the Vikings like that...I'll open a can of virtual whoop-ass on you so bad you won't even visit the Dora the Explorer website after I'm done with you.
Hey, at least I didn't downding you!
Peace.
At least the Colts won Thursday night...whew!
| 463 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Dec 12, 2010 8:05:53am |
re: #460 Dark_Falcon
The computer says we have too many users on LGF... DF... you're fired.
//
| 464 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 12, 2010 8:09:42am |
re: #463 Walter L. Newton
The computer says we have too many users on LGF... DF... you're fired.
//
[smiles]
Good morning, Walter. The rain turned to snow here and now brutally high wind gusts. Hows the weather there?
| 465 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Dec 12, 2010 8:09:53am |
Here's some red meat for you all this morning...
"Campaigners try to ban anti-Islam pastor Terry Jones who wanted to burn Koran on 9/11 from entering UK"
The Home Secretary Theresa May may ban the U.S. pastor who threatened to burn the Koran on the 9/11 anniversary from visiting Britain, she said today.
Terry Jones is hoping to attend an English Defence League rally in February next year so he can speak out against Islamic extremism.
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]
| 466 |
A Man for all Seasons Sun, Dec 12, 2010 8:10:58am |
The Little green football prayer list
On this day in History 12-12-2000
A divided U.S. Supreme Court halted the presidential recount in Florida, effectively making Republican George W. Bush the winner.
Thank you Lord for all the prayers answered every Sunday Morning:
Let us extend well wishes, Prayers and healing to our fellow lizards...
NJdHockeyfan:My friend's son who just joined the IDF and has been training just found out what he will be doing. He just got sent to tank training. How cool is that? Prayers for his safety is much appreciated.
BubbleheadII: But please add this man soul to it.
James S Stoddard.
He was a good Man and my brother.
He will be missed, but not forgotten.
Obdicut: My friend Pam, who's ovarian cancer has returned. She's going into chemo again. And she believes in the power of prayer.
Dark_Falcon: His Mother had a stroke..She is getting better.. Please heal her Lord
Jadespring: Dear Lord bring healing to a Sister.. Bring grace and strength to the Family.
We pray for your tender mercies
Wlewisiii: If you would pray as appropriate to your beliefs for John Freuh, his step-mother, my sister Elisabeth & his father Rick, I'd appreciate it.
Dear Lord.
Help her in the Job search and finding her a new Career. .
We know your love brings healing and life.
Guanxi88: Best wishes and lizard mojo to my wife's best friend. her father committed suicide not two weeks after her mother succumbed to cancer.
Reine: Health and Family.. Lord we ask you grant Reine’s Daughter a Special blessing..Look after her and grant grace.
Prairiefire: Health for Family and friends
Mcspiff: if you could add my uncle to the list. He went in for surgery today and it didn't go so well. Extra organs had to come out, etc. Still just hearing bits and pieces now. But any prayers would be greatly appreciated.
They're in their 80's and slipping in to ALZ...Simultaneously
HoosierHoops: Bring peace and strength to Joe and his family
Thank you Lord..
Amen
| 467 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Dec 12, 2010 8:12:19am |
re: #464 Dark_Falcon
[smiles]
Good morning, Walter. The rain turned to snow here and now brutally high wind gusts. Hows the weather there?
Clear... 39 degrees (f)... El Nina weather patterns are keeping the winter storms west and north of us... you can almost draw a line from west to east across Colorado... storms been hitting west and north of Interstate 70.
So, so far, a very light winter... some really cold nights, but not much snow.
| 468 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 12, 2010 8:15:08am |
re: #465 Walter L. Newton
Here's some red meat for you all this morning...
"Campaigners try to ban anti-Islam pastor Terry Jones who wanted to burn Koran on 9/11 from entering UK"
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]
I think that the UK should not let him in. It makes no sense to let in a hater who plans to rile up a crowd of fascists.
| 469 |
Vicious Michigan Union Thug Sun, Dec 12, 2010 8:15:08am |
I went swimming this morning!
| 470 |
A Man for all Seasons Sun, Dec 12, 2010 8:17:37am |
re: #469 Alouette
I went swimming this morning!
It's cold and windy in Oklahoma...Walking Winston wasn't fun
| 471 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 12, 2010 8:18:08am |
re: #467 Walter L. Newton
Clear... 39 degrees (f)... El Nina weather patterns are keeping the winter storms west and north of us... you can almost draw a line from west to east across Colorado... storms been hitting west and north of Interstate 70.
So, so far, a very light winter... some really cold nights, but not much snow.
Glad to here you're catching a break on the snow, I think you're warmer than here today. High in Chicago is only 30 degrees (f). Of course I know that that is atypical.
| 472 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Dec 12, 2010 8:20:32am |
re: #468 Dark_Falcon
I think that the UK should not let him in. It makes no sense to let in a hater who plans to rile up a crowd of fascists.
I was listening to the BBC live overnight, streaming it over my Ipod Touch, and they had a statement from Jones. Honestly, the man can't even use words properly. He sounded dumb as a rock, and I suspect the BBC presenters were having a hard time not giggling at his "bumpkin" English.
And the money quote from the article...
But Jones admitted he knows little about the EDL.
He added: 'It's only what I know through conversations with them that my office has had and then of course the different material in the internet that they have put out.
'I would describe them as a group who, I believe, in their words they want England to stay English.'
They're fascist... dummy.
| 473 |
Political Atheist Sun, Dec 12, 2010 8:32:56am |
re: #459 darthstar
Next time I get a cold I want that tissue dispenser for me desk at work...
LOL
| 474 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 12, 2010 8:35:46am |
re: #472 Walter L. Newton
I was listening to the BBC live overnight, streaming it over my Ipod Touch, and they had a statement from Jones. Honestly, the man can't even use words properly. He sounded dumb as a rock, and I suspect the BBC presenters were having a hard time not giggling at his "bumpkin" English.
And the money quote from the article...
They're fascist... dummy.
Terry Jones has about 1/4th your brainpower, Walter, and 1/10th of your knowledge. His ignorance is pathetic, but unsurprising.
| 475 |
A Man for all Seasons Sun, Dec 12, 2010 8:39:26am |
re: #474 Dark_Falcon
Terry Jones has about 1/4th your brainpower, Walter, and 1/10th of your knowledge. His ignorance is pathetic, but unsurprising.
I would reply to that but I'm late for a Christmas party.. But Bill Clinton is here to answer your questions
/
| 476 |
Fozzie Bear Sun, Dec 12, 2010 8:52:54am |
re: #441 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Governments worldwide now have a vested interested in a more restrictive, controlled internet.
They always did, and they'll take any excuse they can get to make it that way.
| 478 |
prairiefire Sun, Dec 12, 2010 9:16:10am |
re: #469 Alouette
I went swimming this morning!
Great! Keep it up. I'm going to exercise more starting this week. There, I said it so now I have to do it.
| 479 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 12, 2010 9:26:03am |
Rush Limbaugh wants the tax deal to fail.
So we should all pay more in taxes so you can have your political purity, huh Rush? You worthless choad.
| 481 |
NJDhockeyfan Sun, Dec 12, 2010 10:12:24am |
Pakistan doctor arrested on suspicion of blasphemy
Pakistani authorities have arrested a doctor on suspicion of violating the country's contentious blasphemy law by throwing away a business card of a man who shared the name of Islam's prophet, Muhammad, police said Sunday.
The blasphemy law has been widely criticized by human rights groups following the case of Asia Bibi, a Christian woman sentenced to death last month for insulting Islam. Critics say the law should be amended or repealed because it is often used to settle grudges, persecute minorities and fan religious extremism.
Naushad Valiyani, a Muslim doctor in the southern city of Hyderabad, was arrested Friday after a complaint was lodged with police alleging his actions had insulted the Prophet Muhammad, said regional police chief Mushtaq Shah.
The case began Friday when Muhammad Faizan, a pharmaceutical company representative, visited Valiyani's clinic and handed out his business card. He said when the doctor threw the card away, Faizan went to police and filed a complaint that noted his name was the same as the prophet's.
| 482 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Dec 12, 2010 10:17:09am |
re: #481 NJDhockeyfan
What the fuck? In that case, you would never be able to throw anything away with someone's personal name on it... hell... the Pakistani National Phone book only has one alphabetic entry... 45 thousand pages of "M's" (PBUH).
| 483 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Dec 12, 2010 10:22:05am |
re: #482 Walter L. Newton
What the fuck? In that case, you would never be able to throw anything away with someone's personal name on it... hell... the Pakistani National Phone book only has one alphabetic entry... 45 thousand pages of "M's" (PBUH).
This sounds like a set-up. Someone doesn't like this guy.
| 484 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Dec 12, 2010 10:22:50am |
re: #483 SanFranciscoZionist
This sounds like a set-up. Someone doesn't like this guy.
And I think you only say 'peace be upon him' if the Mohammed in question is no more. And has ceased to be.
| 485 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Dec 12, 2010 10:24:09am |
re: #484 SanFranciscoZionist
And I think you only say 'peace be upon him' if the Mohammed in question is no more. And has ceased to be.
Er... SFZ... that was sarcasm... with a slight hint of humor... I don't think I was planning on reverting.
| 486 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Dec 12, 2010 10:30:07am |
re: #485 Walter L. Newton
Er... SFZ... that was sarcasm... with a slight hint of humor... I don't think I was planning on reverting.
That was clear Walter.
| 487 |
Flavia Sun, Dec 12, 2010 10:57:32am |
re: #40 AsTheWormTurns
Sure, not all of the leaks are as significant as that one and likely not even worth publishing. And Wikileaks is probably doing such leaks a disservice by publishing them along with ones that are more or less inconsequential. But the fact that many in the media and elsewhere are painting them as closer to a terrorist cell instead of a press organization seems ultimately far more dangerous.
While I have, so far, been very pleased with the leaks I have seen (& I may have missed a number of them, I freely admit), I still do not like the entire idea behind them & not just because it shows a problem with America's security. Assange has an agenda & it's not an altruistic one. IOW, I'm not going to dignify them with the label "journalists" just because I like what I've seen so far.
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