Anti-Choice Group Called Two Fetuses As Witnesses

A perverse stunt by Faith2Action in Ohio

WingnutsMarch 2011 • Views: 30,419

It turns out that the anti-choice group pushing Ohio’s crazy “Heartbeat Bill” didn’t just call one fetus as a witness to yesterday’s hearing. They called two.

If House Bill 125 is approved and signed into law, Ohio would have the most restrictive limits on abortion in the nation.

“This bill would essentially outlaw abortions in Ohio because they would be banned before a woman even knows she is pregnant,” said Kellie Copeland, executive director of NARAL Pro-choice Ohio.

Before a packed hearing room, two young mothers were given ultrasounds which were shown on a large screen. …

The bill’s sponsor, Rep. Lynn R. Wachtmann, R-Napoleon, said seeing the fetus moving and hearing the heartbeat is “an eyeopener.”

“I think it kind of hits you in the forehead about what is going on in the woman’s womb,” he said.

It’s highly symbolic that the ones named as witnesses were the fetuses — not the women carrying them.

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177 comments

jamesfirecat Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:45:10pm

Wait... why did they need to call a second Fetus as a witness? What did the first one fail to provide for them? Was he a hostile witness?

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:46:18pm

Rise of the crazies!

abolitionist Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:46:44pm

They have names already? That's somewhat unconventional. I believe there are sound reasons for the traditions, with respect to naming infants.

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:46:55pm

For my next witness, I'm calling this discarded condom, which contains no less than a hundred dead human souls inside

What, me worry? Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:47:07pm

"This is an active growing baby. This is not a blob sitting there," said Ducia Hamm, executive director of the Ashland Care Center, told lawmakers as they watched an ultrasound image of a 9-week-old fetus.

Yea, but the pregnant woman is a blob sitting there apparently. Does she have a heartbeat too? Does her heartbeat matter to anyone?

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:47:27pm

re: #3 abolitionist

They have names already? That's somewhat unconventional. I believe there are sound reasons for the traditions, with respect to naming infants.

"BILL!?!?!?! HOW ARE YOU DOING???"

"MARV! WOW! I haven't seen you around the placenta these days!"

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:47:57pm

re: #5 marjoriemoon

Yea, but the pregnant woman is a blob sitting there apparently. Does she have a heartbeat too? Does her heartbeat matter to anyone?

Pregnant women are just vessels for the GIFT OF EXALTED LIFE ohwaityouwantedhealthcare fuckoffcommie

Obdicut Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:48:17pm

Does it bother the Republicans pulling this stunt that you could have shown the ultrasound of pig fetuses and nobody would have been able to tell the difference?

Targetpractice Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:48:30pm

So, what do these theocrats intend to do to protect these children? Take the mothers into state custody and ensure they maintain healthy, nurturing lifestyles up until the child is born? Charge pregnant women caught drinking, smoking, or doing any drugs without a doctor's permission with child abuse? Once you start treating them as a "person" for your own agenda, don't be surprised when others do so for theirs.

S'latch Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:48:51pm

Technically, it is physical evidence, not testimony of a witness.

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:49:09pm

re: #8 Obdicut

Does it bother the Republicans pulling this stunt that you could have shown the ultrasound of pig fetuses and nobody would have been able to tell the difference?

Some enterprising lawyer needs to sue for the rights of pigs to be American citizens, using this as justification

Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:49:24pm

re: #10 Lawrence Schmerel

Technically, it is physical evidence, not testimony of a witness.

God says they are live witnesses.

Targetpractice Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:49:26pm

re: #4 WindUpBird

For my next witness, I'm calling this discarded condom, which contains no less than a hundred dead human souls inside

You inhuman bastard! You should be charged with genocide!

///

Simply Sarah Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:49:48pm

Can a fetus even legally be a witness? And how does this even make sense? You want to treat them the same as a human that has been born, but would you normally call a witness up to just sit there and be stared at?

Sounds a bit insulting to the fetus to me, just being treated as evidence...
/kinda

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:49:53pm

re: #9 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

So, what do these theocrats intend to do to protect these children? Take the mothers into state custody and ensure they maintain healthy, nurturing lifestyles up until the child is born? Charge pregnant women caught drinking, smoking, or doing any drugs without a doctor's permission with child abuse? Once you start treating them as a "person" for your own agenda, don't be surprised when others do so for theirs.

They intend to win votes and gather influence for their idiot brethren! That's all!

bubba zanetti Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:49:59pm

re: #13 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

You inhuman bastard! You should be charged with genocide!

///

feels good man

jamesfirecat Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:50:23pm

re: #10 Lawrence Schmerel

Technically, it is physical evidence, not testimony of a witness.

Yes, but if we admitted that we'd also have to admit the soul deadening fact that Ohio is trying to go around the supreme court and repress women's freedom in a way that has no place in a industrial first world nation...

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:50:26pm

re: #13 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

You inhuman bastard! You should be charged with genocide!

///

let's do this shit!

I'M TO BLAME, ARREST ME

S'latch Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:50:42pm

re: #12 ralphieboy

They were not sworn in.

rwdflynavy Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:50:45pm

re: #13 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

You inhuman bastard! You should be charged with genocide!

///

A single sperm is a tragedy, a thousand, a statistic.//

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:51:25pm

re: #17 jamesfirecat

Yes, but if we admitted that we'd also have to admit the soul deadening fact that Ohio is trying to go around the supreme court and repress women's freedom in a way that has no place in a industrial first world nation...

Roll back the clock! Let's pretend we're all in Little Women, or even better, The Crucible!

Kid A Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:51:36pm

re: #19 Lawrence Schmerel

They were not sworn in.

"Please raise your right fin."

jamesfirecat Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:51:49pm

re: #21 WindUpBird

Roll back the clock! Let's pretend we're all in Little Women, or even better, The Crucible!

No we must move forward, Handmaiden's tail here we come!

Vicious Babushka Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:52:12pm

re: #21 WindUpBird

Roll back the clock! Let's pretend we're all in Little Women, or even better, The Crucible!

Life of Brian!

jamesfirecat Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:52:29pm

re: #22 Kid A

"Please raise your right fin."

The defense objects to the witness being sworn in on a bible since they have not been baptized yet!

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:53:03pm

re: #19 Lawrence Schmerel

They were not sworn in.

Bailiff: "do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So help you God?"

Fetus: "..."

Baliffi: Seems we have a troublemaker, your honor!"

Targetpractice Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:53:36pm

re: #18 WindUpBird

let's do this shit!

I'M TO BLAME, ARREST ME

I...uhm...I can't. See...if I arrest you, I gotta arrest myself. Just...just don't do it again. Now get out of my sight.

abolitionist Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:53:53pm

re: #21 WindUpBird

Roll back the clock! Let's pretend we're all in Little Women, or even better, The Crucible!

Being a midwife was a hazardous profession then, and for much of history.

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:54:11pm

The 9-week heartbeat was "difficult to detect".

Also, a similar bill is on Tx Gov. Rick Perry's "EMERGENCY" list of legislative items.

Killgore Trout Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:54:28pm

One fetus invoked the 5th amendment.....
Lawmakers see fetus ultrasounds in Ohio hearing

Two young mothers were given ultrasounds in a packed room at the Statehouse as part of a House committee meeting Wednesday. The heartbeat of a fetus at 15 weeks gestation was easily detected. The heartbeat in a fetus of nine weeks gestation was difficult to detect.

lawhawk Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:54:31pm

re: #24 Alouette

Dickensian England - Every Sperm Is Sacred....

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:54:59pm

re: #29 negativ

The 9-week heartbeat was "difficult to detect".

Also, a similar bill is on Tx Gov. Rick Perry's "EMERGENCY" list of legislative items.

The pigfuckers move fast, don't they? :D

Varek Raith Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:55:30pm

Oh, jeez.

Kid A Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:56:03pm

re: #25 jamesfirecat

The defense objects to the witness being sworn in on a bible since they have not been baptized yet!

"Objection overruled. They haven't been BORN yet!"
/

Obdicut Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:56:12pm

re: #30 Killgore Trout

I'm really at a loss as to why a heartbeat is being seen as significant, anyway. The heart is a pump. What's it got to do with whether or not the possessor of it should be considered a human for the purposes of legal protection?

I suspect this is being done because the brain doesn't really develop until quite late in gestation.

Kid A Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:57:06pm

re: #32 WindUpBird

The pigfuckers move fast, don't they? :D

Yeah, we have a big budget problem here in Texas, but Gov. Goodhair thinks harassing women is more important.

lawhawk Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:57:58pm

And did this change the minds of anyone.... anyone at the hearing or those who are going to weigh in with their votes on this legislation?

Nope. It wont. It was a publicity stunt and nothing more. As some others have argued above, they could have shown video of ultrasounds of other mammals at early stages of gestation and the politicians would have had a difficult time telling them apart.

These folks want to roll back Roe in any way imaginable, regardless of the negative consequences to that decision.

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:58:19pm

re: #36 Kid A

Yeah, we have a big budget problem here in Texas, but Gov. Goodhair thinks harassing women is more important.

Of course, because the snake handlers and entrail readers demand it

Fozzie Bear Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:58:57pm

re: #35 Obdicut

I'm really at a loss as to why a heartbeat is being seen as significant, anyway. The heart is a pump. What's it got to do with whether or not the possessor of it should be considered a human for the purposes of legal protection?

I suspect this is being done because the brain doesn't really develop until quite late in gestation.

I don't consider it human until it has fully functional genitals. /

Targetpractice Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:59:31pm

re: #35 Obdicut

I'm really at a loss as to why a heartbeat is being seen as significant, anyway. The heart is a pump. What's it got to do with whether or not the possessor of it should be considered a human for the purposes of legal protection?

I suspect this is being done because the brain doesn't really develop until quite late in gestation.

For the same reason the came out with laws saying women have to have a sonogram and see the heart beating before receiving an abortion, it's a play on emotions. We humans have generally always considered a heart beat to be the sign of life, hence if we see it on the sonogram, we automatically assume that the "baby" is alive and thus a "person."

No basis whatsoever in science, but as we've seen in other instances, the theocrats are not big on science to begin with. At least not science as we understand it.

Bubblehead II Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:59:38pm

re: #35 Obdicut

Because it furthers the meme that all life begins at conception.

Kragar Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:00:15pm

Now show us the ultrasound of an unviable fetus after several months that will be born with birth defects and die shortly after birth that you forced a woman to carry to term.

TedStriker Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:00:19pm

re: #4 WindUpBird

For my next witness, I'm calling this discarded condom, which contains no less than a hundred dead human souls inside

But, but...every sperm is sacred!!!

Youtube Video

;-)

Targetpractice Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:01:59pm

re: #42 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Now show us the ultrasound of an unviable fetus after several months that will be born with birth defects and die shortly after birth that you forced a woman to carry to term.

Hear, hear! It has a heartbeat too, why isn't it's testimony just as valid?

Fozzie Bear Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:02:48pm

re: #41 Bubblehead II

Because it furthers the meme that all life begins at conception.

Whose conception? I mean, it's pretty much an unbroken chain going back a billion years.

But, they probably don't "believe in" evolution. I use the quotes only because I don't "believe in" the idea that belief itself matters. Some ideas are objectively wrong, others aren't. I don't see why we need to respect ignorance like its a difference in opinion. It isn't. It's just dumb people being objectively wrong, and they need to be told that, repeatedly.

bubba zanetti Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:03:03pm

re: #39 Fozzie Bear

I don't consider it human until it has fully functional genitals. /

And then there's that tail...

garhighway Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:03:20pm

Maddow had a nice piece last night about how the libertarian right was resisting this sort of crap in Wyoming. In what might be the reddest state in the Union, some Republican women in the Wyoming legislature killed a bill that would have required various sorts of anti-abortion nonsense. They said that they didn't believe that it was the government's place to interfere with the relationship between a woman and her doctor.

Sometimes the libertarians get stuff right. When they are really libertarians, and not socons in disguise.

Decatur Deb Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:03:43pm

re: #35 Obdicut

I'm really at a loss as to why a heartbeat is being seen as significant, anyway. The heart is a pump. What's it got to do with whether or not the possessor of it should be considered a human for the purposes of legal protection?

I suspect this is being done because the brain doesn't really develop until quite late in gestation.

Does this mean ex-VP Cheney is no longer human in Texas?

Bubblehead II Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:04:42pm

bbiaw. Time to get the eyeballs checked.

What, me worry? Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:06:14pm

re: #47 garhighway

Maddow had a nice piece last night about how the libertarian right was resisting this sort of crap in Wyoming. In what might be the reddest state in the Union, some Republican women in the Wyoming legislature killed a bill that would have required various sorts of anti-abortion nonsense. They said that they didn't believe that it was the government's place to interfere with the relationship between a woman and her doctor.

Sometimes the libertarians get stuff right. When they are really libertarians, and not socons in disguise.

It makes sense to be a libertarian cause. They want government out of everything which is great when it comes to abortion and religion. Not so great when it comes to public schools, libraries, parks, roads, etc.

This is not a black and white world. Lots of gray areas.

Kragar Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:06:29pm

I would say the capacity for thought and self awareness as a guideline regarding humanity, but that would discount the people who wrote this bill.

Simply Sarah Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:06:56pm

re: #47 garhighway

Maddow had a nice piece last night about how the libertarian right was resisting this sort of crap in Wyoming. In what might be the reddest state in the Union, some Republican women in the Wyoming legislature killed a bill that would have required various sorts of anti-abortion nonsense. They said that they didn't believe that it was the government's place to interfere with the relationship between a woman and her doctor.

Sometimes the libertarians get stuff right. When they are really libertarians, and not socons in disguise.

Well, it's an extreme viewpoint that tends to have some things that appeal to everyone. Just...that goes with along of the rest of what comes with strong libertarianism.

HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:07:03pm

This story keeps on getting more creepier.

leftynyc Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:07:23pm

re: #9 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

So, what do these theocrats intend to do to protect these children? Take the mothers into state custody and ensure they maintain healthy, nurturing lifestyles up until the child is born? Charge pregnant women caught drinking, smoking, or doing any drugs without a doctor's permission with child abuse? Once you start treating them as a "person" for your own agenda, don't be surprised when others do so for theirs.

Oy Vey - don't give them any ideas.

What, me worry? Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:07:34pm

re: #47 garhighway

Maddow had a nice piece last night about how the libertarian right was resisting this sort of crap in Wyoming. In what might be the reddest state in the Union, some Republican women in the Wyoming legislature killed a bill that would have required various sorts of anti-abortion nonsense. They said that they didn't believe that it was the government's place to interfere with the relationship between a woman and her doctor.

Sometimes the libertarians get stuff right. When they are really libertarians, and not socons in disguise.

In fact, a libertarian friend of mine said he doesn't think there's ENOUGH abortions. He's against welfare and believes there are too many people in the world to begin with.

avanti Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:07:45pm

My wife had two miscarriages over the years, can the fetuses sue for possible contributory damages ?/ I did smoke a pipe around her, and we did go motorcycle riding early on. Maybe attorneys should line up at hospitals looking for potential miscarried fetuses to represent.

jaerik Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:07:54pm

The truly scary thing is that the judge allowed them to call these witnesses as people.

That seems to indicate he/she already sides with them.

Kragar Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:08:34pm

re: #56 avanti

My wife had two miscarriages over the years, can the fetuses sue for possible contributory damages ?/ I did smoke a pipe around her, and we did go motorcycle riding early on. Maybe attorneys should line up at hospitals looking for potential miscarried fetuses to represent.

I can see no possible negative repurcussions to that course of action.

Kragar Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:09:13pm

re: #57 jaerik

The truly scary thing is that the judge allowed them to call these witnesses as people.

That seems to indicate he/she already sides with them.

Not a judge, a state senate hearing.

garhighway Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:09:15pm

re: #50 marjoriemoon

It makes sense to be a libertarian cause. They want government out of everything which is great when it comes to abortion and religion. Not so great when it comes to public schools, libraries, parks, roads, etc.

This is not a black and white world. Lots of gray areas.

Agree.

But at least these women were consistent about it.

The ones that annoy me are the ones that preach smaller government but then turn around and vote for measures that make the government bigger and/or more intrusive. It kind of makes a person think that those individuals aren't being completely honest with us about their true beliefs.

Firstinla Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:09:17pm

re: #56 avanti

Dont give them any ideas!

HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:09:50pm

I call semen cell #23657775 to testify.
"Sir is it true that your life was ended by pornography."
"Yes, he wouldn't stop, it was awful."

Interesting Times Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:09:51pm

re: #45 Fozzie Bear

But, they probably don't "believe in" evolution. I use the quotes only because I don't "believe in" the idea that belief itself matters. Some ideas are objectively wrong, others aren't. I don't see why we need to respect ignorance like its a difference in opinion. It isn't. It's just dumb people being objectively wrong, and they need to be told that, repeatedly.

Bolded for truth. I'm so, so sick of questions like "Do you believe in AGW?" and "Do you believe in evolution?"

I mean really, while we're at it, why not add "Do you believe in gravity?" "Do you believe the Earth revolves around the Sun?" 9_9

abbyadams Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:10:00pm

First, background.

The overall miscarriage rate is reported as 15-20%, which means 15-20% of recognized pregnancies result in miscarriage. The frequency of spontaneous miscarriage increases further with maternal age. With the development of highly sensitive assays for hCG levels, pregnancies can be detected prior to the expected next period. When these highly sensitive hCG assays are used early, the magnitude of pregnancy loss significantly increases to about 60-70%.

Next, anecdote.

During my first pregnancy, there was a heartbeat detected by ultrasound at 6 weeks. During the seventh week, there was none. Who knows why. I'm a biologist, so I'm guessing some kind of chromosomal abnormality, a nondisjunction, or the like.

Finally: The Point.

A heartbeat doesn't mean jack 15-20% of the time, maybe 60-70% of the time, if you're anxious and really want to know if you're pregnant.

abolitionist Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:11:20pm

re: #58 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I can see no possible negative repurcussions to that course of action.

The lawyer/client split of the winnings will be a cinch.

avanti Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:12:37pm

re: #61 Firstinla

Dont give them any ideas!

It's a very big potential market after all:

"Thirty-one percent of all conceptions end in miscarriage, usually in the early months of pregnancy and often before women even know they are pregnant, according to a new study."

lawhawk Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:13:04pm

re: #62 HappyWarrior

Keep 'em coming. //

Kragar Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:14:03pm

Could a jizz mopper at a porn shop sue the clients for psychological damages from being exposed to genocide?

HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:14:13pm

To be serious for a second instead of being a raging smart ass, do they actually think this will convince people to change their minds on abortion? The whole thing reeks of a political stunt. I've long subscribed to the Clinton view on abortion: it should be safe, legal, and rare.

What, me worry? Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:14:28pm

The worst part about this, of course, is that it completely dehumanizes women, relegating us to baby machines. When women's rights mean nothing next to a clump of potential human tissue.

Lynn Wachtmann, btw, is a man, not a woman.

"A lot of people don't think it's a baby until it reaches a certain point," she said. The bill's sponsor, Rep. Lynn R. Wachtmann, R-Napoleon, said seeing the fetus moving and hearing the heartbeat is "an eyeopener."
"I think it kind of hits you in the forehead about what is going on in the woman's womb," he said.

[Link: www.house.state.oh.us...]

So to this piece of lowlife scum, women are simply too stupid to know what it means to carry a baby, or know what a baby really is, or have any sanctity for life. Women loathing is what this is.

Why did God chose us and not you, LYNN?

wrenchwench Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:16:06pm

re: #64 abbyadams

First, background.

Next, anecdote.

During my first pregnancy, there was a heartbeat detected by ultrasound at 6 weeks. During the seventh week, there was none. Who knows why. I'm a biologist, so I'm guessing some kind of chromosomal abnormality, a nondisjunction, or the like.

Finally: The Point.

A heartbeat doesn't mean jack 15-20% of the time, maybe 60-70% of the time, if you're anxious and really want to know if you're pregnant.

You and your real life experiences. What makes you think that counts for anything? And a scientist, too. Why, that's just another belief system.

What, me worry? Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:16:06pm

re: #60 garhighway

Agree.

But at least these women were consistent about it.

The ones that annoy me are the ones that preach smaller government but then turn around and vote for measures that make the government bigger and/or more intrusive. It kind of makes a person think that those individuals aren't being completely honest with us about their true beliefs.

Politicians who are "libertarians" play both sides against the middle. They are anti-abortion only because they have to get the Republican vote. They sure as hell aren't getting the Democrat vote.

I imagine that in private discussions around the dinner table, Rand and Ron Paul are pro-choice.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:16:27pm

Question to those in the know: would such a restrictive law be unconstitutional?

avanti Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:16:28pm

re: #67 lawhawk

Keep 'em coming. //

"Ejaculation without consummation" "Premature potential abortion"

Achilles Tang Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:17:31pm

re: #8 Obdicut

Does it bother the Republicans pulling this stunt that you could have shown the ultrasound of pig fetuses and nobody would have been able to tell the difference?

Monkeys would have worked too.

wrenchwench Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:17:54pm

re: #70 marjoriemoon

The worst part about this, of course, is that it completely dehumanizes women, relegating us to baby machines. When women's rights mean nothing next to a clump of potential human tissue.

Lynn Wachtmann, btw, is a man, not a woman.

[Link: www.house.state.oh.us...]

So to this piece of lowlife scum, women are simply too stupid to know what it means to carry a baby, or know what a baby really is, or have any sanctity for life. Women loathing is what this is.

Why did God chose us and not you, LYNN?

The "hits you in the forehead" part tells me he's screwed up somewhere.

avanti Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:18:10pm

re: #73 Sergey Romanov

Question to those in the know: would such a restrictive law be unconstitutional?

Yes, under Roe V Rade, it's just a gesture to the pro lifers.

HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:18:19pm

re: #72 marjoriemoon

Politicians who are "libertarians" play both sides against the middle. They are anti-abortion only because they have to get the Republican vote. They sure as hell aren't getting the Democrat vote.

I imagine that in private discussions around the dinner table, Rand and Ron Paul are pro-choice.

I think Ron is pretty serious about his opposition to abortion. I mean he not only votes that way but I believe he's sponsored some very anti abortion legislation before.

Stanghazi Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:18:38pm

re: #68 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Could a jizz mopper at a porn shop sue the clients for psychological damages from being exposed to genocide?

Oh the colorful language is giving away my stealth LGF-ing at work!!! LOL

Kragar Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:18:52pm

Obviously the solution to all this is a government mandate for a CB6000 for all males upon reaching puberty.

Either you know or you don't, and looking it up is strictly NSFW.

What, me worry? Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:19:04pm

re: #73 Sergey Romanov

Question to those in the know: would such a restrictive law be unconstitutional?

Yes. Abortion is legal in this country.

The problem is that they do these things and then what doctor is going to perform an abortion? Meanwhile the clock is ticking for women carrying children. They can't wait for lawsuits and what-not.

abolitionist Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:19:16pm

re: #75 Naso Tang

Monkeys would have worked too.

I'd recommend a kangaroo.

Simply Sarah Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:20:03pm

re: #78 HappyWarrior

I think Ron is pretty serious about his opposition to abortion. I mean he not only votes that way but I believe he's sponsored some very anti abortion legislation before.

Ron seems to be a hardcore theocrat in libertarian clothing. Or, at least, so he seems based on some of the writings of his I've seen.

HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:20:13pm

"So Semen cell number 23657777, you say that the defendant went to his computer and typed in "naked women."
"Yes, sir, that is correct."
"And he looked at these photos, yes?
"Yes sir repeatedly for fifteen minutes"
"My brothers and I were nearly killed *sobs*
"I am so sorry for your heartache."

What, me worry? Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:20:24pm

Ack, have to dash.... bbl.

garhighway Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:20:27pm

Wildly OT: The White House brews beer! Really!

[Link: www.politico.com...]

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:21:03pm

re: #77 avanti

Yes, under Roe V Rade, it's just a gesture to the pro lifers.

So they're just wasting taxpayers' money?

Targetpractice Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:21:11pm

re: #84 HappyWarrior

"So Semen cell number 23657777, you say that the defendant went to his computer and typed in "naked women."
"Yes, sir, that is correct."
"And he looked at these photos, yes?
"Yes sir repeatedly for fifteen minutes"
"My brothers and I were nearly killed *sobs*
"I am so sorry for your heartache."

"Objection, your honor, calls for speculation!"

HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:21:33pm

re: #83 Simply Sarah

Ron seems to be a hardcore theocrat in libertarian clothing. Or, at least, so he seems based on some of the writings of his I've seen.

Look no further then his endorsement of Constitution Party candidate Pastor Chuck Baldwin if one needed proof that Paul is a theocrat.

Simply Sarah Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:21:36pm

re: #87 Sergey Romanov

So they're just wasting taxpayers' money?

Well, there's also the hope to challenge and overturn Roe, but yes.

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:21:59pm

re: #86 garhighway

Wildly OT: The White House brews beer! Really!

[Link: www.politico.com...]

I like Obama more every day, glad he has taste in beer. And yes, I would like to have a beer with him.

HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:23:02pm

re: #86 garhighway

Wildly OT: The White House brews beer! Really!

[Link: www.politico.com...]

Such a Muslim :)
On a serious note, on a personal level Obama seems like he'd be a lot of fun to chat with. Guy loves his beer, basketball, and is smart. Would make for a neat convo.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:24:03pm

re: #92 HappyWarrior

Such a Muslim :)

Not a seekrit Mormon either ;)

garhighway Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:24:03pm

re: #87 Sergey Romanov

So they're just wasting taxpayers' money?

Roe has been shaky for a while. With the current makeup of the Supreme Court, there are probably four sure votes to overturn it, and no one knows what Justice Kennedy will really do on any given day.

So the red states pass stuff that they know violates Roe hoping that it will be their law that becomes the one on which SCOTUS pulls the plug on Roe.

Happens every term.

HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:24:32pm

And by the way presidents homegrowing their own stuff is a time honored tradition that goes back to George Washington who distilled his own whiskey. When I was at Mount Vernon a few years back, I looked in vain for some of that to no avail. I think Jefferson made his own wine but I've never been much of a wino. Beer and whiskey is how I flow :).

Decatur Deb Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:25:59pm

re: #86 garhighway

Wildly OT: The White House brews beer! Really!

[Link: www.politico.com...]

With honey from their own hive--hardcore.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:27:13pm

re: #94 garhighway

OK, then here's a possibly stupid question: doesn't the Constitution (including the SCOTUS interpretations) have the direct application, meaning that whether the law will pass or not, it will be inapplicable in practice? Sort of if some state decided to dispose of the Miranda rights and passed a law, wouldn't that law be directly irrelevant to anything since so obviously unconstitutional?

Simply Sarah Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:27:35pm

re: #70 marjoriemoon

The worst part about this, of course, is that it completely dehumanizes women, relegating us to baby machines. When women's rights mean nothing next to a clump of potential human tissue.

Lynn Wachtmann, btw, is a man, not a woman.

[Link: www.house.state.oh.us...]

So to this piece of lowlife scum, women are simply too stupid to know what it means to carry a baby, or know what a baby really is, or have any sanctity for life. Women loathing is what this is.

Why did God chose us and not you, LYNN?

And women that can't have kids? Well, that defeats the point of being a woman, doesn't it?
/(But not for them)

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:27:49pm

re: #86 garhighway

Wildly OT: The White House brews beer! Really!

[Link: www.politico.com...]

Fucking righteous :D

Screw macros, roll your own

100

blueraven Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:27:51pm

re: #61 Firstinla

Dont give them any ideas!

It's already out there

Not only does Bobby Franklin want abortion classified as murder, according to his latest bill, the police will have to investigate all miscarriages to ensure that they were "spontaneous."

101

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:28:37pm

re: #96 Decatur Deb

With honey from their own hive--hardcore.

A friend of mine who brews beer uses adjuncts from his garden, good for spicy winter ales

102

Fozzie Bear Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:28:41pm

re: #68 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Could a jizz mopper at a porn shop sue the clients for psychological damages from being exposed to genocide?

WORST
JOB
EVER

103

abolitionist Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:29:26pm

re: #95 HappyWarrior

And by the way presidents homegrowing their own stuff is a time honored tradition that goes back to George Washington who distilled his own whiskey. When I was at Mount Vernon a few years back, I looked in vain for some of that to no avail. I think Jefferson made his own wine but I've never been much of a wino. Beer and whiskey is how I flow :).

According to a book I read about the history of marijuanna, Washington made notes in his journal about his hemp crop, and specifically mentioned the female plants. That's a distinction of no importance if you're making rope or sackcloth.

104

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:29:57pm

re: #100 blueraven

It's already out there

Not only does Bobby Franklin want abortion classified as murder, according to his latest bill, the police will have to investigate all miscarriages to ensure that they were "spontaneous."

I remember having this argument with a pro-life guy online in like 2003, he was probably less crazy than these guys because he admitted it would be ridiculous for the police to treat all miscarriages as a potential homicide

105

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:30:33pm

re: #102 Fozzie Bear

WORST
JOB
EVER

Oh not really, honestly, I've had health care jobs that were worse

106

Achilles Tang Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:31:20pm

re: #100 blueraven

It's already out there

Not only does Bobby Franklin want abortion classified as murder, according to his latest bill, the police will have to investigate all miscarriages to ensure that they were "spontaneous."

Couldn't they just pray and ask God if it did it?

107

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:31:23pm

re: #95 HappyWarrior

And by the way presidents homegrowing their own stuff is a time honored tradition that goes back to George Washington who distilled his own whiskey. When I was at Mount Vernon a few years back, I looked in vain for some of that to no avail. I think Jefferson made his own wine but I've never been much of a wino. Beer and whiskey is how I flow :).

I've really tried to get into whiskey, I always go back to beer and weed

108

garhighway Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:31:27pm

re: #97 Sergey Romanov

OK, then here's a possibly stupid question: doesn't the Constitution (including the SCOTUS interpretations) have the direct application, meaning that whether the law will pass or not, it will be inapplicable in practice? Sort of if some state decided to dispose of the Miranda rights and passed a law, wouldn't that law be directly irrelevant to anything since so obviously unconstitutional?

Yes. What happens when such a law is passed is that it gets challenged in court immediately (by the ACLU or NARAL or whomever), the trial judge stays the application of the law pending appellate review, and then the case goes up the appellate ladder. If the law is overturned, then it never went into effect. If the law is upheld, then the original stay is lifted and the law gets enforced.

109

garhighway Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:32:03pm

re: #102 Fozzie Bear

WORST
JOB
EVER

Santorum mopper?

110

Fozzie Bear Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:32:10pm

re: #107 WindUpBird

I've really tried to get into whiskey, I always go back to beer and weed

Wine and weed for me, but same sentiment. Whiskey is great a couple times a year, but really, I have to be in the right mood for it.

111

Stanghazi Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:32:46pm

re: #86 garhighway

Wildly OT: The White House brews beer! Really!

[Link: www.politico.com...]

The only 2 comments:

#
freediver
Party: Libertarian
i thought I disagreed with obama about everything... Apparently I was wrong.

Incredabill
Party: NA

This is great. First productive thing a president has done in years.

112

wrenchwench Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:32:52pm

From abbyadams' backgrounder:

With the development of highly sensitive assays for hCG levels, pregnancies can be detected prior to the expected next period. When these highly sensitive hCG assays are used early, the magnitude of pregnancy loss significantly increases to about 60-70%.

Here are the implications: Every girl will have to be strictly monitored from her first period until she's an old lady. She may become pregnant without knowing it, so her behavior will have to conform to standards of care in line with someone who is in the first weeks of pregnancy:

No alcohol
No tobacco
No sports, horseback riding, etc.
No aviation
No tuna
No x-rays
No prescription meds
No over the counter meds
No caffeine

113

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:33:29pm

re: #108 garhighway

Well, that is in case the law is challenged. In a hypothetical case that it's not, it's still obviously unconstitutional (no ifs and buts), right? But it will be enforced anyway?

114

Simply Sarah Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:33:42pm

re: #97 Sergey Romanov

OK, then here's a possibly stupid question: doesn't the Constitution (including the SCOTUS interpretations) have the direct application, meaning that whether the law will pass or not, it will be inapplicable in practice? Sort of if some state decided to dispose of the Miranda rights and passed a law, wouldn't that law be directly irrelevant to anything since so obviously unconstitutional?

Not quite. The law, as passed, would apply *at least* up until the point it was challenged in court (Give or take, this can be a bit iffy in some cases). At that point, several things could happen. A judge could issue an injunction prevent enforcement of the law on the assumption that it was unconstitutional, which may or may not be left in place on an appeal. The judge could quickly rule the law unconstitutional, at which point an injunction may or may not be placed on it for appeals.

After that, it would work its way up the courts until it either is ruled upon by whatever court would have final say in the matter being challenged or when all remaining appeals are turned down (When applicable). It could also continue on longer and on a more complicated path if cases were sent up and down and back and forth, as sometimes happens.

In a nutshell, though, the law may or may not have a chance to do anything.

115

garhighway Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:34:51pm

re: #113 Sergey Romanov

Well, that is in case the law is challenged. In a hypothetical case that it's not, it's still obviously unconstitutional (no ifs and buts), right? But it will be enforced anyway?

Generally, laws are enforced unless or until they are challenged and stayed.

On this sort of stuff, they are ALWAYS challenged.

116

Decatur Deb Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:35:42pm

re: #114 Simply Sarah

It's Georgia, home of Defender of Marriage Newt Gingrich. Anything is possible.

117

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:36:08pm

re: #115 garhighway

Generally, laws are enforced unless or until they are challenged and stayed.

On this sort of stuff, they are ALWAYS challenged.

Okay. Though I gather that there are laws that are on the books but are not enforced since they will be knocked down in a minute if challenged (e.g. the laws forbidding atheists to be state officials).

118

Achilles Tang Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:36:20pm

re: #112 wrenchwench

With the development of highly sensitive assays for hCG levels, pregnancies can be detected prior to the expected next period. When these highly sensitive hCG assays are used early, the magnitude of pregnancy loss significantly increases to about 60-70%.

If I understand this properly, what I had thought was about a 50% failure rate for the intelligent design concept is really more like 70%?

119

eastsider Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:36:26pm

The problem is, there is no dis-incentive out there that will really stop women who want one from getting an abortion. They weighing your earthly penalties costs against the lifetime responsibility of being a mother, and in some cases the shame they will feel from family/friends for having this baby out of wedlock or some other "undesirable" situation (e.g., interracial baby in culturally insensitive family).

You can make it against the law, you can send people to jail, but women will still try to get them. Look at some countries/regions where it is 100% illegal, people are still doing it, via really unsafe methods.

120

lawhawk Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:36:45pm

re: #91 Dreggas

Interesting, but I'm pretty sure that a couple of the early presidents were skilled at making their own swill (whether beer or distilled spirits). Washington and Jefferson in particular.

121

Simply Sarah Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:38:49pm

re: #108 garhighway

Yes. What happens when such a law is passed is that it gets challenged in court immediately (by the ACLU or NARAL or whomever), the trial judge stays the application of the law pending appellate review, and then the case goes up the appellate ladder. If the law is overturned, then it never went into effect. If the law is upheld, then the original stay is lifted and the law gets enforced.

That's assuming the trial judge does, indeed, put the law on hold and that such a hold is left in place for the duration of the legal process, which may or may not be what happens in any particular case. Of course, for something like this, a judge or judges letting the law go while the case is being decided would almost certainly be totally out of line, since it would appear invalid on its face given Roe and later rulings.

122

eastsider Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:39:06pm

Also, you want to lower the number of abortions? Fine. I agree that that is a very admirable goal.

But you're going about it wrong. Instead of penalizing would-be mothers, you need to do two things:

1) Lower the overall number of unwanted pregnancies. This involves proper sexual education (how a condom works, how pregnancy happens, how to avoid it), and not just "abstinence only." You're fighting a battle against teenage hormones, and here's a newsflash for you: you're going to lose.

2) Make being a mother less hard. This involves guaranteeing health care for children and providing good education for kids. Republicans are wondering why a mother-to-be would even consider abortion? Maybe its because raising a child in your goddamned free-market-rules-all dystopia is an impossible task.

123

Kragar Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:39:56pm

Committee passes Ohio bill to ban worker strikes

An Ohio bill that would restrict collective bargaining rights for 350,000 public workers was headed Wednesday to a vote by the GOP-led Senate after leadership ousted from a key committee a fellow-Republican who had expressed his disapproval of the measure.

The chamber was expected to take up the bill Wednesday afternoon after it passed out of the Senate Insurance, Commerce and Labor Committee on a 7-5 vote. All four Democrats and one Republican voted against it.

Lawmakers approved changes to the bill that include banning public workers from striking, and establishing fines and jail time for those who do participate in walkouts. Unionized workers could negotiate wages, hours and safety conditions but not health care, sick time or pension benefits. It would affect teachers, university professors, firefighters, police officers and other public workers.

124

Kruk Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:40:24pm

re: #112 wrenchwench

From abbyadams' backgrounder:

Here are the implications: Every girl will have to be strictly monitored from her first period until she's an old lady. She may become pregnant without knowing it, so her behavior will have to conform to standards of care in line with someone who is in the first weeks of pregnancy:

No alcohol
No tobacco
No sports, horseback riding, etc.
No aviation
No tuna
No x-rays
No prescription meds
No over the counter meds
No caffeine

And since many miscarriages are embryonic (due to a defect in the egg and/or sperm), they would only be allowed to concieve with "high quality" men. These men would of course be selected for them.

The Handmaid's Tale wasn't a how-to guide, people.

125

Targetpractice Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:40:51pm

re: #112 wrenchwench

From abbyadams' backgrounder:

Here are the implications: Every girl will have to be strictly monitored from her first period until she's an old lady. She may become pregnant without knowing it, so her behavior will have to conform to standards of care in line with someone who is in the first weeks of pregnancy:

No alcohol
No tobacco
No sports, horseback riding, etc.
No aviation
No tuna
No x-rays
No prescription meds
No over the counter meds
No caffeine

Am I the only one getting "The Demolition Man" flashbacks?

126

garhighway Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:40:59pm

re: #121 Simply Sarah

That's assuming the trial judge does, indeed, put the law on hold and that such a hold is left in place for the duration of the legal process, which may or may not be what happens in any particular case. Of course, for something like this, a judge or judges letting the law go while the case is being decided would almost certainly be totally out of line, since it would appear invalid on its face given Roe and later rulings.

The people who challenge the law generally choose their trial court carefully.

But even so, it doesn't always go perfectly. People thought that enforcement of Prop 8 would get stayed once the trial court found it unconstitutional, but the Court there thought it was too close a call.

127

wrenchwench Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:41:21pm

re: #118 Naso Tang

If I understand this properly, what I had thought was about a 50% failure rate for the intelligent design concept is really more like 70%?

I can't answer for what you thought the Intelligent Design concept failure rate was. It's 100% for me.

128

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:41:59pm

OT but funny

Charlie Sheen v Muammar Gaddafi: whose line is it anyway?

129

HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:42:18pm

re: #107 WindUpBird

I've really tried to get into whiskey, I always go back to beer and weed

I think it's an acquired taste. Plus living in Ireland for a month gives you access to lots and lots of it. But yeah most of the time it's beer. And the fun part about beer is there are so many good ones. Not really doing weed as much as I used to. Plus it gets me hungry and I am trying to lose weight.

130

lawhawk Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:42:23pm

re: #125 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Only Taco Bell....

131

Kragar Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:43:46pm

re: #128 Dreggas

OT but funny

Charlie Sheen v Muammar Gaddafi: whose line is it anyway?

8/10

132

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:43:50pm

re: #91 Dreggas

Image: understocked.png

133

HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:44:06pm

re: #128 Dreggas

OT but funny

Charlie Sheen v Muammar Gaddafi: whose line is it anyway?

7/10.

134

wrenchwench Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:45:04pm

re: #125 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Am I the only one getting "The Demolition Man" flashbacks?

I easily prevented that by never seeing "The Demolition Man".

135

Simply Sarah Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:45:16pm

re: #126 garhighway

The people who challenge the law generally choose their trial court carefully.

But even so, it doesn't always go perfectly. People thought that enforcement of Prop 8 would get stayed once the trial court found it unconstitutional, but the Court there thought it was too close a call.

Well, Judge Walker stated he'd lift the stay he placed on enforcing his ruling after, what, about a week(?) in order to give time for appeals. It's just that the Ninth Circuit panel ordered the stay to remain in place for the duration of the review. Can't really get around a circuit court ruling by picking a trial court (At least, not in this case).

136

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:46:28pm

re: #131 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

8/10

Even Sheen is not so crazy as to come up with a straight-face justification of absence of freedom of the press in a democratic state supposedly ruled by the people.

[Link: www.mathaba.net...]

137

eastsider Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:46:29pm

And lastly, why the hell are we even having this argument now?

You've been in power (federally) for 2 months, and you ran on a campaign of: "Jobs!" "Economy!" "Jobs!" "Economy!"

Now all we get is this social conservatism rammed down our throat.

You disingenuous hacks.

138

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:46:46pm

re: #133 HappyWarrior

re: #131 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I got 8/10.

139

HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:47:10pm

And by the way regarding Sheen, leave it to Charlie to start making Tom Cruise look sane again. I really hope South Park spoofs him this coming season and checking wiki I say that the new season doesn't start until late April. Bummer.

140

Stanghazi Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:47:56pm

re: #128 Dreggas

OT but funny

Charlie Sheen v Muammar Gaddafi: whose line is it anyway?

My result:

You scored 8 out of a possible 10

You clearly know your ravers from your ... fellow ravers

141

Kragar Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:47:58pm

re: #134 wrenchwench

I easily prevented that by never seeing "The Demolition Man".

We got to see that the week we graduated bootcamp at the base theater.

Sandra Bullock in tight spandex pants is something I will remember.

142

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:48:33pm

re: #134 wrenchwench

I easily prevented that by never seeing "The Demolition Man".

What I learned from Demolition Man.

If there is a retinal scanner in a secured facility? Rip the eyeball out of one of the people with access to the room you want to go into, and put the eyeball up in front of the scanner. Voila!

Filed that away for future reference, I did.

143

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:49:14pm

Oh, OT again, but last night I introduced my wife to the greatness that is Bruce Campbell, and if you haven't seen it I highly recommend watching "My name is Bruce".

144

Targetpractice Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:49:30pm

re: #134 wrenchwench

I easily prevented that by never seeing "The Demolition Man".

How else are you going to learn how to use the three seashells?

145

Kragar Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:50:06pm

re: #143 Dreggas

Oh, OT again, but last night I introduced my wife to the greatness that is Bruce Campbell, and if you haven't seen it I highly recommend watching "My name is Bruce".

Bubbahotep.

146

Fozzie Bear Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:50:38pm

re: #143 Dreggas

Oh, OT again, but last night I introduced my wife to the greatness that is Bruce Campbell, and if you haven't seen it I highly recommend watching "My name is Bruce".

Bruce Campbell is a god. He is the reason I downloaded the first four seasons of Burn Notice recently.

Army of Darkness is possibly the best B-movie ever made.

147

wrenchwench Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:51:21pm

re: #142 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What I learned from Demolition Man.

If there is a retinal scanner in a secured facility? Rip the eyeball out of one of the people with access to the room you want to go into, and put the eyeball up in front of the scanner. Voila!

Filed that away for future reference, I did.

re: #144 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

How else are you going to learn how to use the three seashells?

Clearly, I am going to have to see this.

148

blueraven Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:51:21pm

New WSJ/NBC Poll

Americans strongly oppose efforts to strip unionized government workers of their rights to collectively bargain

Of course the far right claims all of these polls are bogus. All of them...except Rasmussen of course.

149

Fozzie Bear Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:51:31pm

re: #145 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bubbahotep.

OMFG loved that movie. The guy who thought he was JFK... amazing. Laughed so hard my stomach was sore for days.

150

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:51:49pm

re: #143 Dreggas

Oh, OT again, but last night I introduced my wife to the greatness that is Bruce Campbell, and if you haven't seen it I highly recommend watching "My name is Bruce".

Orly?

151

HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:52:24pm

[Link: www.dc101.com...]
Found on another site.

152

Kragar Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:52:31pm

re: #149 Fozzie Bear

OMFG loved that movie. The guy who thought he was JFK... amazing. Laughed so hard my stomach was sore for days.

Ossie Davis.

Filmed by the same director as Beastmaster and the Phantasm series.

153

Simply Sarah Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:53:07pm

See? Texas believes in thoughtful immigration reform!

(Apologies if something about this has been posted somewhere already)

154

Targetpractice Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:53:37pm

re: #148 blueraven

New WSJ/NBC Poll

Americans strongly oppose efforts to strip unionized government workers of their rights to collectively bargain

Of course the far right claims all of these polls are bogus. All of them...except Rasmussen of course.

Yep. Any poll that doesn't show Walker as the second-coming of Ronald Maximus is either biased or outright dishonest. After all, nobody in their right minds would think the unions are anything but a blight upon our great and wonderful nation!

155

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:53:46pm

re: #146 Fozzie Bear

Yeah we watched Evil Dead and My Name Is Bruce, trying to see if Army Of Darkness is available for streaming through netflix. I loaded up a ton of great B-horror flicks and fortunately the wife loves horror.

156

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:54:37pm

re: #150 negativ

Ok I will have to check that one out but "My Name Is Bruce" was awesome sauce just for the way he made fun of himself.

157

HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:55:26pm

re: #153 Simply Sarah

See? Texas believes in thoughtful immigration reform!

(Apologies if something about this has been posted somewhere already)

Hahahhaa. That's funny. No illegals but if they're our hired help then it's fine. Too funny.

158

Targetpractice Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:56:36pm

re: #153 Simply Sarah

See? Texas believes in thoughtful immigration reform!

(Apologies if something about this has been posted somewhere already)

The line at the beginning says it all:

Why? As Texas state Rep. Aaron Pena, also a Republican, told CNN, without the exemption, "a large segment of the Texas population" would wind up in prison if the bill became law.

"We want the illegals out...so long as they're not doing work for us. If they are, then they can stay...they just can't be citizens."

The mind boggles.

159

Kragar Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:56:49pm

And lets us not forget Brisco County Junior.

160

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:59:18pm

re: #156 Dreggas

Ok I will have to check that one out but "My Name Is Bruce" was awesome sauce just for the way he made fun of himself.

Dreggas? You there? May I ask you a direct question?

161

abolitionist Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:59:29pm

re: #157 HappyWarrior

Hahahhaa. That's funny. No illegals but if they're our hired help then it's fine. Too funny.

Accountant, adviser, chafferer, tutor, bodyguard, sex therapist ...

162

Simply Sarah Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:59:47pm

re: #158 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

The line at the beginning says it all:

"We want the illegals out...so long as they're not doing work for us. If they are, then they can stay...they just can't be citizens."

The mind boggles.

It's a joke. It basically says "We don't *really* want to get rid of them. We just want to make sure they are limited to being our dirt-cheap servants."

163

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Mar 2, 2011 2:02:05pm

re: #160 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Dreggas? You there? May I ask you a direct question?

sure. ask away.

164

Targetpractice Wed, Mar 2, 2011 2:02:08pm

re: #162 Simply Sarah

It's a joke. It basically says "We don't *really* want to get rid of them. We just want to make sure they are limited to being our dirt-cheap servants."

Pretty much. We don't want to get rid of them, because they make a great slave class. Part of keeping slaves means denying them citizenship. That rumbling sound you just heard was every Union soldier rolling in his grave at the same time.

165

Decatur Deb Wed, Mar 2, 2011 2:04:33pm

re: #164 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Pretty much. We don't want to get rid of them, because they make a great slave class. Part of keeping slaves means denying them citizenship. That rumbling sound you just heard was every Union soldier rolling in his grave at the same time.

The other advantage of slaves, one the Union soldiers were aware of, is that they depress the wages of free workers to near-slavery levels. Carry on, Texas.

166

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Mar 2, 2011 2:04:38pm

re: #163 Dreggas

sure. ask away.

Where do you first remember hearing the phrase "Awesomesauce"?

My nephew is on a one man mission to ensure that the word enters the mainstream.

Outside of your post, I've never seen it used anywhere else, though I have used it a few times myself.

I think it's a great word.

Awesomesauce is the sauce that is anointed upon the head of champions. (from Urban Dictionary)

I'm just curious.

167

HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 2, 2011 2:05:59pm

Honest, I am surprised they did this. Of course, if it passes they'll try to blame it on those damned liberals :D when their base is upset about it.

168

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Mar 2, 2011 2:06:09pm

re: #166 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

geez I have no idea where I first heard it, some friends have used it, think I heard it used on the radio once.

169

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Mar 2, 2011 2:07:40pm

re: #168 Dreggas

Okay. Thanks. Didn't know if there was a story behind it.

170

albusteve Wed, Mar 2, 2011 2:07:42pm

re: #164 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Pretty much. We don't want to get rid of them, because they make a great slave class. Part of keeping slaves means denying them citizenship. That rumbling sound you just heard was every Union soldier rolling in his grave at the same time.

this is so over the top, it's no more than ranting humor....good one!

171

Kragar Wed, Mar 2, 2011 2:08:47pm

re: #166 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Where do you first remember hearing the phrase "Awesomesauce"?

My nephew is on a one man mission to ensure that the word enters the mainstream.

Outside of your post, I've never seen it used anywhere else, though I have used it a few times myself.

I think it's a great word.

Awesomesauce is the sauce that is anointed upon the head of champions. (from Urban Dictionary)

I'm just curious.

Mid 2000s, on the web comic Homestarrunner.

172

Feline Fearless Leader Wed, Mar 2, 2011 2:10:36pm

Did someone tell these gentlemen that getting full fetal rights is *not* how a youth-oriented get out the vote program works?

Or, did they cannily count all the fertilized cells stocked up in various places and realize that there was a vast and hidden reservoir potential GOP votes just waiting to be tapped?
/

173

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Mar 2, 2011 2:57:17pm

re: #112 wrenchwench

From abbyadams' backgrounder:

Here are the implications: Every girl will have to be strictly monitored from her first period until she's an old lady. She may become pregnant without knowing it, so her behavior will have to conform to standards of care in line with someone who is in the first weeks of pregnancy:

No alcohol
No tobacco
No sports, horseback riding, etc.
No aviation
No tuna
No x-rays
No prescription meds
No over the counter meds
No caffeine

I love NO TUNA AND NO X-RAYS!

174

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Mar 2, 2011 2:58:03pm

re: #166 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Where do you first remember hearing the phrase "Awesomesauce"?

My nephew is on a one man mission to ensure that the word enters the mainstream.

Outside of your post, I've never seen it used anywhere else, though I have used it a few times myself.

I think it's a great word.

Awesomesauce is the sauce that is anointed upon the head of champions. (from Urban Dictionary)

I'm just curious.

it's already mainstream if you're quite internet, I heard it years ago, on multiple webcomics

175

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Mar 2, 2011 3:02:22pm

re: #170 albusteve

this is so over the top, it's no more than ranting humor...good one!

Slaves is obviously wrong, but really what we're doing is creating a helot class, Sparta style

Spartan society was no exception to this rule. Like other towns in ancient Greece, all people belonged to different groups, and there was a class of unfree laborers, the helots. Typically, they were peasants, but they are sometimes found in other sectors of Spartan society (as servants at home, guards, and grooms), and although they were believed to be ethnically different from the Spartan elite, they could be emancipated and enter the world of the free-born.

None of this is unique, and ancient and modern authors have found it very difficult to define helotism, because it was not considered to be an ordinary type of unfree labor. Unlike the slaves in Athens, helots had families and communities of their own, and they were no private property. Therefore, Pausanias calls them "slaves of the commonwealth". Strabo of Amasia says they were "some sort of public slaves", and other authors say they were a category between slaves and free people. Perhaps the best approach is to leave the niceties for what they are, and simply define helots as a class of unfree laborers.

Basically, there are CITIZENS, with status, and then there are illegals, which are the helot class, which are not really slaves, but not afforded the all the same rights of citizens, but yet working in America in shitty conditions. And also blamed for everything, because they're an underclass that can't fight back.

helots!

176

b_sharp Wed, Mar 2, 2011 4:04:34pm

re: #175 WindUpBird

Slaves is obviously wrong, but really what we're doing is creating a helot class, Sparta style

Basically, there are CITIZENS, with status, and then there are illegals, which are the helot class, which are not really slaves, but not afforded the all the same rights of citizens, but yet working in America in shitty conditions. And also blamed for everything, because they're an underclass that can't fight back.

helots!

Any harlots with that bunch?

177

Petero1818 Wed, Mar 2, 2011 8:43:03pm

Does this mean that if you are in the US legally as a tourist, and you can prove you had sex in the USA 9 months before your child was born in whatever country you are from, that child is American? It would seem to me, that once you give a fetus rights such as are being called for in this bill it is a slippery slope. This could start an entirely new tourist industry. If they argue its when the heartbeat is able to be heard, and you are in the US at that time, is the child American? I want to see this debate.

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