Jon Stewart: Tea Party and Right Wing Develop Sudden Allergy to Fiery Rhetoric

Gretchen Carlson was so upset she left the prom early

Charles Johnson

HumorSeptember 2011 • Views: 19,472

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188 comments

jamesfirecat Wed, Sep 7, 2011 11:43:07am

Oh Jon how did we manage to go 15 days without you?

(Though ironically he seems to focus more on the hypocrisy and less on the video editing, though maybe that will be for tonight’s show?)

Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Sep 7, 2011 11:43:14am

Don’t retreat, reload!!!

Kragar Wed, Sep 7, 2011 11:49:45am

2nd Amendment solutions = Good because we love the Constitution
Taking sons of bitches out = Bad because he used a naughty word

Ojoe Wed, Sep 7, 2011 11:53:48am

Ojoe develops a permanent allergy to all politics at this point, even when disguised as comedy.

I’d rather drink a beaker-full of ipecac.

Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Sep 7, 2011 11:55:44am

I remember people getting upset at Obama’s comment about “you can put lipstick on a pig” because it was seen as a veiled jab at Sarah Palin (?!?)

There is nothing that these people will not take offense at, might as well just settle in and brace yourself for a season of serious outrage.

jamesfirecat Wed, Sep 7, 2011 11:57:39am

re: #4 Ojoe

Ojoe develops a permanent allergy to all politics at this point, even when disguised as comedy.

I’d rather drink a beaker-full of ipecac.

Bob Dole is sad to say that Bob Dole lost the last election. Bob Dole also lost the ability to say the letter (incoherent sounds) . Luckily Bob Dole is still buoyed by happy memories, like the day that Bob Dole told Lizzy Dole “Bob Dole do” and before that when he gave her a diamond so small it was naked to the invisible to the naked Bob Dole.

(Sorry referring to self in third person jokes are even easier to make than Modern Whig ones)

Bulworth Wed, Sep 7, 2011 11:57:51am

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

2nd Amendment solutions = Good because we love the Constitution
Taking sons of bitches out = Bad because he used a naughty word

Well, it’s bad because it’s directed at teabaggers. It’s all about who the opponents are.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Wed, Sep 7, 2011 11:57:52am

Anders Breivik’s spider web of hate

An analysis of the Norwegian killer’s manifesto reveals the online network that features in his paranoid universe

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk…]

Anders Breivik’s manifesto mapped

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk…]

Obdicut Wed, Sep 7, 2011 11:58:14am

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Deceptively editing a quote in order to mislead = not a problem at all.

What I don’t get is that if I found out that Media Matters or John Stewart or someone else had deceptively edited a quote to give the wrong impression, I’d be pissed off at them.

It doesn’t seem to work that way with Fox. Surely their viewers must occasionally encounter the truth, especially in a case like this where it can be so trivially shown. Why don’t they get angry at Fox for misleading them? What kind of people get lied to and it just doesn’t bug them at all?

Charles Johnson Wed, Sep 7, 2011 11:59:49am

re: #9 Obdicut

What kind of people get lied to and it just doesn’t bug them at all?

The kind of people who already know they’re being lied to, and enjoy it. There’s a vindictiveness behind it that’s pretty sick.

Kragar Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:01:27pm

re: #8 000G

Anders Breivik’s spider web of hate

An analysis of the Norwegian killer’s manifesto reveals the online network that features in his paranoid universe

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk…]

Anders Breivik’s manifesto mapped

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk…]

Joyner: “The Lord Is Using Islam” To Punish America for “Perversions” and “Abortions”

But just as the Lord used the heathen nations around Israel to bring judgment upon Israel whenever they fell into apostasy, the Lord is using Islam in that way today. You don’t want Jesus? You don’t want Christianity? As many nations in Europe has said. We don’t want any semblance of religion or Christianity? Guess what they’re getting? They’re gonna get religion, they’re gonna get one they don’t want, and they’re gonna be oppressed by it. If they turn to the Lord this doesn’t have to happen.

makeitstop Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:01:58pm

re: #9 Obdicut

What kind of people get lied to and it just doesn’t bug them at all?

When the lie is in service to a more important end - pissing liberals off - then it’s a good lie and it’s okay.

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:02:03pm

Too lazy to make a page, but this is a greta jaron lanier article about the internet and unemployment [Link: edge.org…]

Kragar Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:02:19pm

re: #9 Obdicut

Deceptively editing a quote in order to mislead = not a problem at all.

What I don’t get is that if I found out that Media Matters or John Stewart or someone else had deceptively edited a quote to give the wrong impression, I’d be pissed off at them.

It doesn’t seem to work that way with Fox. Surely their viewers must occasionally encounter the truth, especially in a case like this where it can be so trivially shown. Why don’t they get angry at Fox for misleading them? What kind of people get lied to and it just doesn’t bug them at all?

Those people wouldn’t recognize honest reporting if it slapped them in the face.

Ojoe Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:03:15pm

re: #9 Obdicut

What kind of people get lied to and it just doesn’t bug them at all?

There are lots of them, unfortunately, whatever type they are.

BBL

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:04:46pm

Another example that is quite astonishing, one that will be recognized by future historians as an extraordinary phenomenon in the 21st century, is that the aging populations are buying into their own impoverishment. There’s this strange way in which people who are older tend to be conservative, and what conservative means now is no government: “Don’t you dare support my dialysis, don’t you dare support my nursing home expenses! That reduces my liberty! I need my freedom and my options.”
But if you look at how this transformation has come about, where the elderly are, for the most part, advocating their own impoverishment and misery, you find the same thing, this prevalence of social media, new media. You tend to find “conservative,” nutty politics using social media better than mainstream sensible stuff. And that’s true both on the left and the right, but it’s the right that’s taken off with it, and that’s striking to me. Of course, that story is still unfolding, so we don’t know how it will turn out, but it’s absolutely remarkable.

[Link: edge.org…]

Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:06:15pm

re: #9 Obdicut

Lots of people want a news station that simply confirms their preconceived notions about how the world is and should be. Fox has occupied that niche for the right wing.

Kragar Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:07:58pm

Crane collapses at Washington’s Nat’l Cathedral

Obviously, God did this on the day of the GOP debate to show his disapproval of Republicans.

Big Steve Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:07:59pm

re: #7 Bulworth

Well, it’s bad because it’s directed at teabaggers. It’s all about who the opponents are.

None of that around here either….hooray for our side!

Kragar Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:08:49pm

re: #19 Big Steve

None of that around here either…hooray for our side!

And the other side can go screw themselves!!!

…wait a sec…

jaunte Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:09:34pm

John Bolton discovers that deck is stacked against him:

[Link: 2012.talkingpointsmemo.com…]

anonymous gun expert Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:10:08pm

Call me what you will, but if it wasn’t for The Daily Show and LGF, I’d be insane.

Thanks.

Kragar Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:11:41pm

re: #21 jaunte

John Bolton discovers that deck is stacked against him:

[Link: 2012.talkingpointsmemo.com…]

“I think the political commentariat here in Washington is convinced that foreign policy is not a winning issue.”

Yeah, that was the problem, not that Bolton is bat shit crazy.

Kragar Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:11:57pm

re: #22 Iwouldprefernotto

Call me what you will, but if it wasn’t for The Daily Show and LGF, I’d be insane.

Thanks.

YOU’RE CRAZY!

jaunte Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:13:09pm

re: #23 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Someone must have asked him what his jobs program would be.

Big Steve Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:13:49pm

re: #23 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yeah, that was the problem, not that Bolton is bat shit crazy.

I remember when he used to win awards around here…

The Ghost of a Flea Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:14:37pm

re: #23 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

“I think the people that fear my mighty moustache here in Washington is convinced that bombing Iran is not a winning issue.”

FTFY

Kragar Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:15:41pm

re: #25 jaunte

Someone must have asked him what his jobs program would be.

“A national mustache grooming initiative to cow the enemy into submission.”

The Ghost of a Flea Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:16:34pm

re: #9 Obdicut

What kind of people get lied to and it just doesn’t bug them at all?

People who’ve convinced themselves that there is a higher purpose that justifies both the acceptance and propagation of lies.

Kragar Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:17:07pm

re: #26 Big Steve

I remember when he used to win awards around here…

Funny how most of his biggest supporters aren’t around here anymore.

HappyWarrior Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:17:30pm

It’s just amazing to me. The various Tea Parties and their candidates have used much more violent rhetoric and then they start to whine when Jimmy Hoffa Jr calls them sobs. Bunch of whiners. Are they going to claim that Stewart’s dummy threatened them next?

HappyWarrior Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:18:42pm

re: #21 jaunte

John Bolton discovers that deck is stacked against him:

[Link: 2012.talkingpointsmemo.com…]

Yeah John, it’s not that your potential candidancy made Rick Santorum’s look good.

Kragar Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:19:13pm

re: #27 The Ghost of a Flea

FTFY

It would be “are convinced” not “is convinced”. Please, think about the grammar.

BongCrodny Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:20:19pm

Jon Stewart is rich, therefore he cannot presume to speak for the working class of America.

CuriousLurker Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:20:48pm

re: #18 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Crane collapses at Washington’s Nat’l Cathedral

Obviously, God did this on the day of the GOP debate to show his disapproval of Republicans.

Wrong. It was the collective weight of the sins of liberals, secularists, and non-Dominionist Christians that caused it to collapse. And there was probably a Muslim involved somehow…maybe Sharia was creeping up the boom trying to take over the cathedral and inadvertently tipped it over.

Big Steve Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:21:26pm

See that Andrea Mitchell has announced she has breast cancer…….hope she comes through it, I rather like her reporting. Been through that disease with the former Mrs Big Steve…..it just plain sucks. So I wish Andrea the best.

freetoken Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:23:33pm

Has Fox News become my unwitting ally in trying to convince Erick Erickson that many Americans do indeed believe in a literal creationism as outlined in the Bible?

Fox News Poll: Most Believe Prayer Heals, 45 Percent Believe in Creationism

Some 45 percent of voters accept the Biblical account of creation as the explanation for the origin of human life on Earth, while 21 percent say the theory of evolution as outlined by Darwin and other scientists is correct. Another 27 percent say both explanations are true.

Most of the Fox write-up isn’t done very well (no surprise), not really tackling the sticky issues of polling.

Here is the summarized polling data:

[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

which contains more details.

Looking at the details of the polling results, among self declared as “Tea Party” only 11% accept science. “Republicans” don’t do much better, at 13%.

The Fox questions are ambiguous, intentionally so I can only conclude. The three options given are:

The theory of evolution as outlined by Darwin and other scientists

The Biblical account of creation as told in the Bible

Are both true

The last one is the curve ball in classic obfuscationist fashion. The category is a catch all, probably intended for every one from theistic evolutionists (i.e., Biologos folk) to the Old Earth Creationists (e.g., Hugh Ross, and probably Erick Erickson.)

However, even accepting that, fully half of the “Tea Party” and “Republican” chose the “Bible” category, not the “both”!! That is, half of all the Tea Partying/GOP folk totally reject that science has any part in informing us of origins!

NCSE has some comments about this poll:
A new Fox News poll on evolution

Personally I wonder about the polling method. For example, the poll says that the under 35 y.o. crowd accepts the Biblical story at 50% (!!), while the over 65 y.o. is only 43% in that category. This is contrary to every other polling result and counter-intuitive as well.

Overall, I suspect this poll is more of an attempt to legitimize the GOP candidates’ atavism as somehow being mainstream.

The Ghost of a Flea Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:26:20pm

re: #35 CuriousLurker

Wrong. It was the collective weight of the sins of liberals, secularists, and non-Dominionist Christians that caused it to collapse. And there was probably a Muslim involved somehow…maybe Sharia was creeping up the boom trying to take over the cathedral and inadvertently tipped it over.

More likely they’ll claim that God is suggesting that Episcopalians are insufficiently Christian, and the cathedral should be replaced with a franchise mega-church.

Kragar Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:29:06pm

re: #38 The Ghost of a Flea

More likely they’ll claim that God is suggesting that Episcopalians are insufficiently Christian, and the cathedral should be replaced with a franchise mega-church.

Perhaps a henge. We could use a national henge.

William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:33:57pm

re: #18 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Crane collapses at Washington’s Nat’l Cathedral

Obviously, God did this on the day of the GOP debate to show his disapproval of Republicans.

Ah, heck. We took a lot of uninsured damage there from the quake already. I hope the person hospitalized is alright.

Gus Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:43:00pm

Al Jazeera journalist not allowed to film at Texas high school football game

Gabriel Elizondo, a Brazil-based correspondent for Al Jazeera, is in the middle of a road trip across the United States, talking to people about the effects of 9/11 on American life. In Texas, Elizondo says he just experienced part of the impact firsthand.

“Ten miles,” he wrote Sunday in a blog post. “That’s how deep I got into Texas before being asked to leave.”

Continues.

[Banjo music.]

Jack Burton Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:49:20pm

re: #26 Big Steve

I remember when he used to win awards around here…

I think at the time all we were hearing from him is:

“The UN is generally ineffective and filled with terrorist-hugging Anti-Semites.”

Aside from the “terrorist-hugging” part being a bit of hyperbole, that statement is still basically correct.

It’s when Bolton opened his mouth on anything else. That’s when the crazy was apparent.

Gus Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:50:59pm

Navy Corpsman Linked to San Clemente School Bomb Threat Identified

SAN CLEMENTE, Calif. (KTLA) — The campus of San Clemente High School has been evacuated because of a bomb threat that originated at Camp Pendleton.

3,200 students were moved to the football field as Orange County Sheriff’s officials tried to determine if the threat was credible.

Investigators responded to the campus on Avenida Pico after officials at Camp Pendleton notified deputies that they found a note that indicated there were bombs planted at the school.

Orange County Sheriff’s Sgt. Steve Doan said officials at the base went to the home of Navy corpsman, Daniel Morgan, who failed to report for duty.

Inside the home, they discovered a notebook filled with writings that indicated Morgan had put incendiary devices at the school.

Camp Pendleton officials are actively searching for Morgan.

He was last seen at 7:00 p.m. Tuesday.

Military police say he owns a white Jeep Wrangler with a black top.

Continues.

HappyWarrior Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:51:09pm

re: #41 Gus 802

OT

Al Jazeera journalist not allowed to film at Texas high school football game

[Banjo music.]

Oh for fucks sake, Texas.

Kragar Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:51:35pm

re: #41 Gus 802

OT

Al Jazeera journalist not allowed to film at Texas high school football game

[Banjo music.]

Bryan Fischer accuses Muslims of celebrating 9/11, gets dates wrong by a week

Jack Burton Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:52:50pm

re: #44 HappyWarrior

Oh for fucks sake, Texas.

I almost got in trouble for trying to smuggle books about evolution into the state, but no one could prove they were books so I got out of it.

Shiplord Kirel Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:54:07pm

re: #41 Gus 802

OT

Al Jazeera journalist not allowed to film at Texas high school football game

[Banjo music.]

The superintendant who threw Elizondo out of the game, Michael Lee, wrote this response to Elizondo’s article on the school’s website:

“I want to apologize to you if I came across as disrespectful,” Lee wrote in a response on the high school’s website. “That certainly was not my intent and is definitely not how I want to represent my community. I do say this with all sincerity.”

“I was dealing with several situations in the few minutes prior to the start of the football game, my conversation with you being one,” Lee continued. “The most important situation was the fact that two of our elementary children had not arrived at their home. I can assure you that two kids missing is very stressful for an administrator.”

I wonder if Lee might have suspected that Elizondo had something to do with the missing children? If this kind of suspicion seems unlikely, you don’t know small town America in the saturation media age.

freetoken Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:54:52pm

Would Fox try to deceive us, or are American’s already deceived?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

Shiplord Kirel Wed, Sep 7, 2011 12:59:08pm

re: #41 Gus 802

OT

Al Jazeera journalist not allowed to film at Texas high school football game

[Banjo music.]

The aptly named Yahoo comments are running about 10 to 1 against the Al Jazeera guy, with posters suggesting that he was an Al Qaeda scout, a terrorist himself, or at least a 9-11 Troofer.

freetoken Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:02:47pm

re: #41 Gus 802

I don’t think that is “OT” at all. The deep nativism and (euphemistically put) “provincialism” that the reporter is discussing is very much part of the selective outrage that Jon Stewart discusses.

Decatur Deb Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:07:43pm

re: #49 Shiplord Kirel

The aptly named Yahoo comments are running about 10 to 1 against the Al Jazeera guy, with posters suggesting that he was an Al Qaeda scout, a terrorist himself, or at least a 9-11 Troofer.

So now he knows “how 9/11 affected (some) Americans’ lives”.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:08:00pm

re: #8 000G

Lemme guess: they’re ignorant of the fact that most of those links are in Fjordman’s essays.

freetoken Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:09:49pm

Well, I just posted a link to my latest Page, at the Fox News story in question. We’ll see how long it lasts…

122 Year Old Obama Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:09:57pm

re: #48 freetoken

Would Fox try to deceive us, or are American’s already deceived?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

C. All of the above.

Kragar Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:11:02pm

Out Of Step With Rest Of Nation, Only One In Three Tea Partiers Think Global Warming Is Real

freetoken Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:13:19pm

re: #55 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well then, GW is doing much better than Darwin among the Tea Partying crowd.

Decatur Deb Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:13:56pm

re: #8 000G

Anders Breivik’s spider web of hate

An analysis of the Norwegian killer’s manifesto reveals the online network that features in his paranoid universe

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk…]

Anders Breivik’s manifesto mapped

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk…]

Unfortunately, LGF is mapped as “American Right Wing”.

Gus Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:16:24pm

re: #50 freetoken

I don’t think that is “OT” at all. The deep nativism and (euphemistically put) “provincialism” that the reporter is discussing is very much part of the selective outrage that Jon Stewart discusses.

Doesn’t surprise me though. Many people were or are very hostile towards AJ for a number of reasons. According to some people they shouldn’t even be linked or mentioned. Much like, ahem, some of the pages we see almost daily here regarding the New York Times, Reuters, CNN, etc. It’s a “class of 2004” mentality that exists to this day. Basically we’re still looking at a group of people who can only watch one news organization: Fox News.

HappyWarrior Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:22:00pm

re: #45 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bryan Fischer accuses Muslims of celebrating 9/11, gets dates wrong by a week

Bigoted idiot is also a stupid idiot.

Beltboy Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:24:25pm

But wasn’t there a call for civility after Gabby Giffords was shot?
Afterall, we practically put the gun in Sarah Palin’s hands for saying kind of the same thing! But we hear no condemnation of Hoffa Jr’s statement— just that we were “deceived by FOX”. Go figure.

HAL2010 Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:26:00pm

Just a quick question:

When are where is the debate on tonight?

Presuming FOX (Duh) but in how many hours?

It’s almost ten thirty here so I don’t know yet if I can bother to stay up if it’s going to start at four in the morning here.

Cheers!

Shiplord Kirel Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:27:02pm

I am a great enthusiast of alternate history and alternate universe fiction, as my nic (taken from a Harry Turtledove character) might suggest.

Interestingly enough, I developed this affinity about the time I started to believe that many Americans essentially live in alternate worlds, at least mentally. This is a product of their own affinity for certain niche media at the expense of other sources. This leads to a worldview that can diverge as far from objective reality as the media managers might desire. Too bad their votes count in the real world, though.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:28:47pm

re: #60 Beltboy

But wasn’t there a call for civility after Gabby Giffords was shot?
Afterall, we practically put the gun in Sarah Palin’s hands for saying kind of the same thing! But we hear no condemnation of Hoffa Jr’s statement— just that we were “deceived by FOX”. Go figure.

If the wingnuts didn’t run with the patently false accusations against Hoffa, it would be very fair to discuss his real rhetoric (which I don’t like in the least). As such, it was wingnuts who ruined any chance of a sane discussion of Hoffa’s speech.

And let’s not equate the left and the right, as if it didn’t matter to whom the words were addressed. The left is not known to have masses of gun-toting fundie fanatics.

Buck Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:29:40pm

re: #60 Beltboy

But wasn’t there a call for civility after Gabby Giffords was shot?
Afterall, we practically put the gun in Sarah Palin’s hands for saying kind of the same thing! But we hear no condemnation of Hoffa Jr’s statement— just that we were “deceived by FOX”. Go figure.

I think what you are asking is why is this different than when the liberals were all “Sudden Allergy to Fiery Rhetoric”..

Well, you now know that if Sarah Palin does it, it is bad, but if a TEAMSTER union President does it he just means VOTE.

Charleston Chew Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:29:49pm

re: #21 jaunte

John Bolton discovers that deck is stacked against him:

[Link: 2012.talkingpointsmemo.com…]

When I first read “Former Bush administration UN Ambassador John Bolton” I misread it as un-ambassador, but on second thought, that too would be accurate since he recalled that his ‘happiest moment at State was personally ‘unsigning’ the Rome Statute,’ which had set up the International Criminal Court.

He also said, “There is no such thing as the United Nations.” So I guess that would make him the un-ambassador to it.

I suspect Bolton was actually from Bizarro World.

goddamnedfrank Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:31:03pm

re: #61 HAL2010

Just a quick question:

When are where is the debate on tonight?

Presuming FOX (Duh) but in how many hours?

It’s almost ten thirty here so I don’t know yet if I can bother to stay up if it’s going to start at four in the morning here.

Cheers!

NBC, 7pm PDT.

Gus Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:31:21pm

Snicker.

122 Year Old Obama Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:31:36pm

re: #64 Buck

Hoffa literally said people need to vote. Palin did not. MBF fail.

Charleston Chew Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:31:55pm

re: #29 The Ghost of a Flea

People who’ve convinced themselves that there is a higher purpose that justifies both the acceptance and propagation of lies.

And that higher purpose is called money.

makeitstop Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:33:32pm

Did it just get a whole lot dumber in here?

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:34:21pm

re: #70 makeitstop

Did it just get a whole lot dumber in here?

yeah it did.

Beltboy Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:35:16pm

re: #63 Sergey Romanov

The left is not known to have masses of gun-toting fundie fanatics.

What do you call the “inner-city”?

HAL2010 Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:35:42pm

re: #66 goddamnedfrank

NBC, 7pm PDT.

Four hours?

Doh!

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:36:09pm

re: #72 Beltboy

The left is not known to have masses of gun-toting fundie fanatics.

What do you call the “inner-city”?

Heh.

Charleston Chew Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:36:39pm

re: #18 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Crane collapses at Washington’s Nat’l Cathedral

Obviously, God did this on the day of the GOP debate to show his disapproval of Republicans.

People who attribute catastrophe with God’s wrath remind me of Steve Martin’s character in The Jerk coming to the wrong conclusion, “He hates these cans!”

Youtube Video

Decatur Deb Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:36:44pm

re: #72 Beltboy

The left is not known to have masses of gun-toting fundie fanatics.

What do you call the “inner-city”?

A Second Amendment Theme Park.

jamesfirecat Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:36:53pm

re: #60 Beltboy

But wasn’t there a call for civility after Gabby Giffords was shot?
Afterall, we practically put the gun in Sarah Palin’s hands for saying kind of the same thing! But we hear no condemnation of Hoffa Jr’s statement— just that we were “deceived by FOX”. Go figure.

There was a call for civility, and it fell upon deaf ears.

If you’re offered a hand to shake and you spit on it then its not hypocritical to return the favor because the other side refused your offer of trying to take it down a notch.

Gus Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:37:00pm

re: #72 Beltboy

Whoa. Seriously?

That’s a mighty big dog whistle you got there.

Kragar Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:37:36pm

re: #72 Beltboy

The left is not known to have masses of gun-toting fundie fanatics.

What do you call the “inner-city”?

Yeah, because everyone who lives in an inner city neighborhood is a leftist.

You’re an idiot.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:37:37pm

re: #78 Gus 802

Whoa. Seriously?

That’s a might big dog whistle you got there.

You’re a master of understatement, Gus!

HappyWarrior Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:37:46pm

Wow, that’s all I will say.

Gus Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:38:17pm

re: #80 Sergey Romanov

You’re a master of understatement, Gus!

I’m a regular old ambassador of kindness.

jamesfirecat Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:38:25pm

re: #72 Beltboy

The left is not known to have masses of gun-toting fundie fanatics.

What do you call the “inner-city”?

The Inner City.

Why what do you call it?

Beltboy Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:38:35pm

re: #68 SteelPH

Palin said “target”
Hoffa said “take the son of a bitches out”.
Both meant “vote”. But Hoffa is OK because he actually said “vote”.
Lemme guess— you’re one of the people that actually NEED that warning on the McDonald’s cup of coffee that says “caution: contents hot”

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:39:01pm

re: #79 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yeah, because everyone who lives in an inner city neighborhood is a leftist.

You’re an idiot.

All those n’s with illegal guns, they’re obvious libs!

/need I?

jamesfirecat Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:40:31pm

re: #84 Beltboy

Palin said “target”
Hoffa said “take the son of a bitches out”.
Both meant “vote”. But Hoffa is OK because he actually said “vote”.
Lemme guess— you’re one of the people that actually NEED that warning on the McDonald’s cup of coffee that says “caution: contents hot”

Sarah Palin also used target signs, she also said “Don’t retreat reload” she also followed this up with the EXTREMELY TASTELESS comment on how she was facing “Blood Libel” when called upon this.

jamesfirecat Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:41:41pm

re: #64 Buck

I think what you are asking is why is this different than when the liberals were all “Sudden Allergy to Fiery Rhetoric”..

Well, you now know that if Sarah Palin does it, it is bad, but if a TEAMSTER union President does it he just means VOTE.

Which party has had many people with ties to their political ideology go on shooting rampages recently?

Remove the log in thine own eye before trying to point out the twig in anothers.

Charleston Chew Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:41:42pm

re: #57 Decatur Deb

Unfortunately, LGF is mapped as “American Right Wing”.

Maybe in a Nelson Rockefeller kind of a way.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:42:31pm

re: #57 Decatur Deb

Unfortunately, LGF is mapped as “American Right Wing”.

For the cited period the designation is correct.

HappyWarrior Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:42:37pm

re: #86 jamesfirecat

Sarah Palin also used target signs, she also said “Don’t retreat reload” she also followed this up with the EXTREMELY TASTELESS comment on how she was facing “Blood Libel” when called upon this.

Yep. And then there was Sharron Angle who called for second amendment solutions. Plenty of candidates out there who used that rhetoric who were talking about guns and not the voting booth. But let’s ignore them.

Political Atheist Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:43:07pm

re: #10 Charles

The kind of people who already know they’re being lied to, and enjoy it. There’s a vindictiveness behind it that’s pretty sick.

It’s a category I call “beloved lies”. Lies deliberately adopted and intended to hurt an opponent. A bunch of the Truthers fall into this category. Or the Whitewater conspiracy people about Pres. Clinton.

Or most recently & tellingly “Obama is a seekrit Muslim”. Most of these people know better & embrace the cognitive dissonance & the hypocrisy. IMO it’s often driven by raw hard core partisanship. Us And Them mentality.

Decatur Deb Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:43:51pm

re: #89 Sergey Romanov

For the cited period the designation is correct.

Yes. It shows a latency effect in the blogosphere.

Gus Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:43:57pm

re: #84 Beltboy

Palin said “target”
Hoffa said “take the son of a bitches out”.
Both meant “vote”. But Hoffa is OK because he actually said “vote”.
Lemme guess— you’re one of the people that actually NEED that warning on the McDonald’s cup of coffee that says “caution: contents hot”

…

Cuz dem libruls r always supportin’ dem trial lawyers that sood McDonald’s for selling HOT COFFEE!!11ty

makeitstop Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:44:04pm

re: #84 Beltboy

Palin said “target”
Hoffa said “take the son of a bitches out”.
Both meant “vote”. But Hoffa is OK because he actually said “vote”.
Lemme guess— you’re one of the people that actually NEED that warning on the McDonald’s cup of coffee that says “caution: contents hot”

The fail increases exponentially.

Charleston Chew Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:44:05pm

re: #72 Beltboy

The left is not known to have masses of gun-toting fundie fanatics.

What do you call the “inner-city”?

A great place to live. You should visit some time.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:45:08pm

Hey, CL. Nice new avatar!

122 Year Old Obama Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:45:34pm

Teh lefites!! TEH LEFTIES!!11ty

goddamnedfrank Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:46:02pm

re: #84 Beltboy

Palin said “target”
Hoffa said “take the son of a bitches out”.
Both meant “vote”. But Hoffa is OK because he actually said “vote”.
Lemme guess— you’re one of the people that actually NEED that warning on the McDonald’s cup of coffee that says “caution: contents hot”

Hoffa and Palin both meant vote, and both are dumbshits. Palin however edited herself, removing the map image from her website after referring to the crosshairs as a “‘bullseye’ icon,” whereas Hoffa’s speech was dishonestly edited by journalists. Palin wasn’t misquoted, Hoffa was, and both are jackasses.

HoosierHoops Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:46:04pm

re: #84 Beltboy

Palin said “target”
Hoffa said “take the son of a bitches out”.
Both meant “vote”. But Hoffa is OK because he actually said “vote”.
Lemme guess— you’re one of the people that actually NEED that warning on the McDonald’s cup of coffee that says “caution: contents hot”

Stop being a smartass..Your point is well taken..
Both sides have gone over the top lately with statements…I wish both the left and right would tap it down and we could work together as Americans to solve our issues.. Both foreign and domestic..But alias.. Not to be in 2012..

100

HappyWarrior Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:46:28pm

And let’s not forget the fact that the video was edited to make it look like Hoffa was calling for violence. Listen as Sergey and others put it, I am not that fond of that kind of rhetoric but it’s clear to anyone left, center, right, whatever when one sees the full context that it wasn’t a call for violence on Hoffa’s part. The man clearly said “get out and vote” but hey let’s get afraid about unions like days of old.

101

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:46:54pm

re: #98 goddamnedfrank

Hoffa is an idiot who should have known how it would play out.

102

jamesfirecat Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:47:29pm

re: #101 Sergey Romanov

Hoffa is an idiot who should have known how it would play out.

He should have known Fox would out and out lie about what he said?

103

HappyWarrior Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:48:07pm

re: #102 jamesfirecat

He should have known Fox would out and out lie about what he said?

I’d say yes given the Sherrod and other incidents.

104

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:48:14pm

re: #102 jamesfirecat

You don’t see anything wrong with the rhetoric of his complete quote?

105

William of Orange Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:48:41pm

I wonder how Michele Bachmann interprets this sign of God…

(Thankfully no one was injured.)

106

122 Year Old Obama Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:48:50pm

Damned, godless unions! How dare they try and keep workers safe, fairly paid, and unexploited!! It’s anti-‘Merkin!!!!11ty

107

Yukon Digger Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:48:53pm

PM Harper says ‘Islamicism’ biggest threat to Canada

We have a Tea Bagger influence here to.

108

jamesfirecat Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:49:12pm

re: #103 HappyWarrior

I’d say yes given the Sherrod and other incidents.

If your opponent is willing to lie about what you say, does it really matter what you say at all in the first place?

109

CuriousLurker Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:49:50pm

re: #96 Sergey Romanov

Hey, CL. Nice new avatar!

Heh, I figured I might as well look the part if I’m gonna get painted with that big old brush some people carry around.

110

makeitstop Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:50:12pm

re: #99 HoosierHoops

Both sides have gone over the top lately with statements…

Disagree.

Hoffa has a point. The TGOP has declared war on workers, and the people under his charge are the #1 targets.

He has every right to fight back against those who want to destroy unions in this country. He’d be remiss if he didn’t fight back.

111

jamesfirecat Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:50:18pm

re: #104 Sergey Romanov

You don’t see anything wrong with the rhetoric of his complete quote?

I have some problems with it yeah, but those problems were quickly buried underneath an avalanche of proof of why Democrats need to start playing hardball if Fox/the GOP thinks it can get away with BS like this.

112

FemNaziBitch Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:50:52pm

Just checked and yes, I am on the top floor.

How is everyone this afternoon?

113

HappyWarrior Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:51:03pm

re: #108 jamesfirecat

If your opponent is willing to lie about what you say, does it really matter what you say at all in the first place?

I am not blaming him for what happened, Fox deserves all the shit it can get from it but I think yeah he had to known calling them sobs and saying take them out would be edited by some hacks.

114

Jack Burton Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:51:07pm

re: #55 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Out Of Step With Rest Of Nation, Only One In Three Tea Partiers Think Global Warming Is Real

I’m surprised it’s actually that high of a percentage. They must not be letting the rest know they think this.

115

Charleston Chew Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:51:12pm

re: #79 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yeah, because everyone who lives in an inner city neighborhood is a leftist.

You’re an idiot.

The “inner-city” is home to Fox News headquarters on 6th street:

Image: 800px-Fox_News_6th_48_jeh.JPG

116

FemNaziBitch Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:52:25pm

re: #105 William of Orange

I wonder how Michele Bachmann interprets this sign of God…

(Thankfully no one was injured.)

I thought those vehicles had those “extra legs” or stabilizers or whatever they are called to prevent this from happening.

117

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:52:30pm

re: #109 CuriousLurker

CL, I have a question if you have some time to spare.

Stupid/noob question. I want to design a nifty-looking book cover (front cover only). Are there any tools and/or templates that would make the process easier? And are there any “good taste” pieces of advice or something in that vein? I know it’s too general a question.

118

Political Atheist Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:52:33pm

re: #101 Sergey Romanov

Hoffa is an idiot who should have known how it would play out.

I’m none to sure the whole thing was not exactly as intended or maybe more successful than expected. Enough careful verbage to give him cover, and actually counting on the choice of words to set up a firestorm or controversy & adrenaline up the crowd at hand.

My view? Well played by Hoffa. Played the media expertly.

119

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:52:57pm

re: #111 jamesfirecat

I have some problems with it yeah

Can you tell me what those problems are?

120

Gepetto Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:53:08pm

re: #5 ralphieboy

I remember people getting upset at Obama’s comment about “you can put lipstick on a pig” because it was seen as a veiled jab at Sarah Palin (?!?)

There is nothing that these people will not take offense at, might as well just settle in and brace yourself for a season of serious outrage.

yeah, the right wing is always taking offense. I remember how they couldn’t stop whining about that guy at the Kerry rally saying “George WALKER Bush”. Like it was some kind of outrageous big deal to use his middle name. Sons a bitches bitched and moaned until Kerry himself had to apologize.

121

jamesfirecat Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:53:18pm

re: #113 HappyWarrior

I am not blaming him for what happened, Fox deserves all the shit it can get from it but I think yeah he had to known calling them sobs and saying take them out would be edited by some hacks.

If he knew Fox would misleadingly edit him then it could have either been a badly phrased statement, or a brilliant verbal rope a dope to prove just what hacks Fox is and he should sue the pants off of them.

122

122 Year Old Obama Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:53:34pm

re: #119 Sergey Romanov

The rather unnecessary swear, for starters…

123

CuriousLurker Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:53:44pm

re: #115 Charleston Chew

The “inner-city” is home to Fox News headquarters on 6th street:

Image: 800px-Fox_News_6th_48_jeh.JPG

Scary. Look at all those people toting guns.

124

jamesfirecat Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:54:04pm

re: #119 Sergey Romanov

Can you tell me what those problems are?

“Take them out” most and a minor ding for “Sons of Bitches” the bit about their being a war and them starting it is right on target.

125

HappyWarrior Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:54:58pm

re: #121 jamesfirecat

If he knew Fox would misleadingly edit him then it could have either been a badly phrased statement, or a brilliant verbal rope a dope to prove just what hacks Fox is and he should sue the pants off of them.

I think Hoffa probably just got in to the speech at the heat of the moment. Guys like him have been giving speeches like that before we had extensive technology that could easily be edited. As I said, I am not really that ticked off at him as I am at Fox and the other networks for making this “big bad union boss threatens Tea Party”. I mean yeah it’s not the kind of rhetoric I like but I understand his frustration with the Tea Party and Tea Party policies 100%.

126

jamesfirecat Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:55:02pm

Have to head out for a bit now guys sorry to have to abandon such a heated debate but real life calls.

127

Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:55:22pm

re: #41 Gus 802

OT

Al Jazeera journalist not allowed to film at Texas high school football game

[Banjo music.]

Fox certainly has a lot to do with the growing climate of knee-jerk rejection and violent disapproval of all things Islamic-

128

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:55:23pm

re: #124 jamesfirecat

“Take them out” most and a minor ding for “Sons of Bitches” the bit about their being a war and them starting it is right on target.

Exactly, 3/3. So “vote” or not, he should have known the RW media would run with it and paint it as “Obamite” rhetoric.

129

CuriousLurker Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:55:43pm

re: #117 Sergey Romanov

CL, I have a question if you have some time to spare.

Stupid/noob question. I want to design a nifty-looking book cover (front cover only). Are there any tools and/or templates that would make the process easier? And are there any “good taste” pieces of advice or something in that vein? I know it’s too general a question.

I’ll be glad to help you with it. Send me an email and tell me what it’s about, who the target market is, and how it’s going to be printed.

130

122 Year Old Obama Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:55:48pm

re: #115 Charleston Chew

The “inner-city” is home to Fox News headquarters on 6th street:

Image: 800px-Fox_News_6th_48_jeh.JPG

There is a sufficient lack of brown people threatening white people in this picture to fit Fox and their viewers’ narrative.

131

Obdicut Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:55:51pm

re: #120 Gepetto

Image: quizzical_dog.jpg

132

Gus Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:56:03pm

re: #115 Charleston Chew

The “inner-city” is home to Fox News headquarters on 6th street:

Image: 800px-Fox_News_6th_48_jeh.JPG

“They use silverware!” — Bill O’Reilly

133

makeitstop Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:56:10pm

re: #122 SteelPH

The rather unnecessary swear, for starters…

I was watching an episode of ‘Leverage’ last night. In one scene, two bad guys were arguing, and one of them said to the other, ‘Don’t mess with me, you son of a bitch!’

I wonder if the network that ‘Leverage’ was on got inundated with protest for the language. Somehow I doubt it.

134

HappyWarrior Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:56:22pm

re: #120 Gepetto

yeah, the right wing is always taking offense. I remember how they couldn’t stop whining about that guy at the Kerry rally saying “George WALKER Bush”. Like it was some kind of outrageous big deal to use his middle name. Sons a bitches bitched and moaned until Kerry himself had to apologize.

Wow did they really get pissy about saying George WALKER Bush? And these are the same people who act like it’s some Islamist plot that the president’s middle name is Hussein. Whiny idiots.

135

Charleston Chew Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:57:01pm

re: #117 Sergey Romanov

CL, I have a question if you have some time to spare.

Stupid/noob question. I want to design a nifty-looking book cover (front cover only). Are there any tools and/or templates that would make the process easier? And are there any “good taste” pieces of advice or something in that vein? I know it’s too general a question.

General design advice: Make sure it’s both eye-catching and legible from a distance or in a small thumbnail. If it looks good far away it’ll look good up close, but not necessarily vice versa.

136

allegro Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:57:04pm

re: #122 SteelPH

The rather unnecessary swear, for starters…

Oh for fuck’s sake. ;)

137

Beltboy Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:57:10pm

re: #132 Gus 802

And nobody says “gimmie more mother f—in’ ice tea!”

138

Gus Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:58:01pm

“OK team! Now I want you go out there and take out those 49ers!”

“You mean you want us to kill them coach?”

“No you dumb ass. I mean go out their and kick their ass!”

139

Obdicut Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:58:12pm

re: #99 HoosierHoops

There aren’t two sides, though. I mean, there’s the GOP and the Democrats, but if those are the sides, then the GOP has about fifty times the amount of dangerous and violent rhetoric the Democrats do.

It’s not a binary thing.

And Hoffa’s statement is clearly about voting, whereas a lot of the statements from GOP and Tea Party types have been the “We came unarmed this time” type, which is a direct threat of possible violence. Hoffa has no actual threat of violence, it’s just violent imagery.

140

Decatur Deb Wed, Sep 7, 2011 1:59:19pm

re: #101 Sergey Romanov

Hoffa is an idiot who should have known how it would play out.

No. Hoffa is a clever goon who knew exactly how it would play out. He scored big in his world, and knew he would do little harm to a president he is not particularly wedded to.

141

goddamnedfrank Wed, Sep 7, 2011 2:00:52pm

re: #102 jamesfirecat

He should have known Fox would out and out lie about what he said?

Kinda, yeah. I’m surprised that the lie has legs, that it penetrated all the way down to ostensibly legitimate journalists like ABC’s Mary Bruce, but I’m not at all surprised that FOX and the wingnuts seized on the opportunity. It’s okay to say shit like that in private, but in public he’d have advanced the cause better by not giving the bastards the satisfaction. FOX’s audience either never learned as children that if they repeated a lie often enough that they’d come to believe it, or they did learn but were not repulsed by this fact. They like things this way. They hear the truth, but repeat the lie.

142

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Sep 7, 2011 2:01:02pm

re: #138 Gus 802

“OK team! Now I want you go out there and take out those 49ers!”

“You mean you want us to kill them coach?”

“No you dumb ass. I mean go out their and kick their ass!”

“You mean we should physically abuse their buttocks?”

143

Charleston Chew Wed, Sep 7, 2011 2:01:39pm

re: #123 CuriousLurker

Scary. Look at all those people toting guns.

Looks more like tote bags and uggs.

144

makeitstop Wed, Sep 7, 2011 2:03:32pm

re: #140 Decatur Deb

No. Hoffa is a clever goon who knew exactly how it would play out. He scored big in his world, and knew he would do little harm to a president he is not particularly wedded to.

And he’s gotten the chance to tee off on Fox at will. It’s a win on that point alone.

145

Decatur Deb Wed, Sep 7, 2011 2:04:23pm

re: #141 goddamnedfrank

Kinda, yeah. I’m surprised that the lie has legs, that it penetrated all the way down to ostensibly legitimate journalists like ABC’s Mary Bruce, but I’m not at all surprised that FOX and the wingnuts seized on the opportunity. It’s okay to say shit like that in private, but in public he’d have advanced the cause better by not giving the bastards the satisfaction. FOX’s audience either never learned as children that if they repeated a lie often enough that they’d come to believe it, or they did learn but were not repulsed by this fact. They like things this way. They hear the truth, but repeat the lie.

Even David Frums columnist repeated the bull today (and got called on it by the commenters). Frum has just written his own ‘clarification’.

[Link: www.frumforum.com…]

146

Gepetto Wed, Sep 7, 2011 2:07:16pm

re: #139 Obdicut

Hoffa has no actual threat of violence, it’s just violent imagery.

Its just the Chicago way, i’nnit? As long as I’m concerned, anyone who can’t see this can just go straight to hell.

147

William of Orange Wed, Sep 7, 2011 2:09:47pm

re: #116 ggt

I thought those vehicles had those “extra legs” or stabilizers or whatever they are called to prevent this from happening.

I think this was a sign of God that he was displeased that a gargoyle of Dick Cheney is on the cathedral.

148

Obdicut Wed, Sep 7, 2011 2:10:07pm

re: #146 Gepetto

Well, there’s an important distinction between someone implying that if they don’t like the results of an election they’ll rise up in armed rebellion, and someone saying they’d really like to vote some people they think are very bad indeed out of office.

The former is a hell of a lot more worrying, assuming it’s not just bluster.

149

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Sep 7, 2011 2:11:20pm

re: #139 Obdicut

I agree, that’s also my point in response to bb, but… Palin was also savaged for that target map - and yes, it was just a violent (visual) rhetoric (it’s not like people blamed Palin for the attempt itself). Again, we shouldn’t ignore the differences in audiences. But if we savage Palin for the target map, we can at least kick Hoffa’s ass for his rhetoric. (Oh my, there I go threatening him! ;). (PS: I know that you also don’t condone what he said.)

150

makeitstop Wed, Sep 7, 2011 2:13:46pm

re: #145 Decatur Deb

Even David Frums columnist repeated the bull today (and got called on it by the commenters). Frum has just written his own ‘clarification’.

[Link: www.frumforum.com…]

That place is just brimming with stupid.

151

Decatur Deb Wed, Sep 7, 2011 2:15:31pm

re: #150 makeitstop

That place is just brimming with stupid.

Yeah—but I go there a lot to find a ‘sane’ GOP POV. If they’ve lost it, the Repubs are pretty much irretrievable.

152

allegro Wed, Sep 7, 2011 2:18:14pm

I do not get this pearl clutching here at all. War metaphors have been used for politics since the days of the Romans and no doubt before. It’s used in sports every day. WTF is this with any need at all to chastise this guy giving a speech at a rally and using the terminology he did along with the plea to get out and vote.

Yes, it is different than “second amendment solutions” that are a direct call to physical arms if an election doesn’t go their way. It is different from gun sites on the faces of “the enemy” with a statement to reload.

153

uncah91 Wed, Sep 7, 2011 2:18:29pm

re: #149 Sergey Romanov

I agree, that’s also my point in response to bb, but… Palin was also savaged for that target map - and yes, it was just a violent (visual) rhetoric (it’s not like people blamed Palin for the attempt itself). Again, we shouldn’t ignore the differences in audiences. But if we savage Palin for the target map, we can at least kick Hoffa’s ass for his rhetoric. (Oh my, there I go threatening him! ;). (PS: I know that you also don’t condone what he said.)

Yeah, I don’t like Palin, but the reaction to that map had as much to do with not liking Palin and wanting use the Giffords shooting to score points as it did with any real criticism of Palin in particular.

That said, that map existed within a context on the right that was advocating second amendment remedies and actually murdering doctors who perform abortions, so it SHOULD be more sensitive on the right.

154

Obdicut Wed, Sep 7, 2011 2:20:07pm

re: #149 Sergey Romanov

Oh, I don’t like that militaristic rhetoric wherever it comes from. And I feel that Palin’s gunsights were only really bad given the plethora of other violent rhetoric from people of a similar politic vein to her. I only actually got annoyed with her about it when she started shrieking about ‘blood libel’, perverting the meaning of that phrase.

I’m fine with rebuking Hoffa for the militaristic imagery. Throw ‘em out is just as effective rhetorically.

But Hoffa isn’t among a wide group of Democrats and their supporters who use such language. Palin was.

155

FemNaziBitch Wed, Sep 7, 2011 2:22:00pm

re: #147 William of Orange

I think this was a sign of God that he was displeased that a gargoyle of Dick Cheney is on the cathedral.

THere is some cool stuff in the National Cathedral. I didn’t know about Darth tho.

There is a moon (actually from THE MOON) rock embedded in one of the stained-glass windows.

156

uncah91 Wed, Sep 7, 2011 2:24:59pm

re: #154 Obdicut

To be fair, we are talking about Hoffa and the Teamsters here. There is some reason to expect some sensitivity from him when it comes to violent rhetoric.

Frankly, if he had just avoided “take the sons a bitches out” and substituted “throw the sons of bitches out of office” I don’t think there would be any real issue at all.

157

Beltboy Wed, Sep 7, 2011 2:31:16pm

re: #156 uncah91

But that’s just it. We live in the age of the soundbite. And both sides of the aisle take what they can and run with it.

158

Obdicut Wed, Sep 7, 2011 2:32:30pm

re: #157 Beltboy

But in actual reality, the violent imagery— and beyond imagery, outright actual threats of political violence— coming from the GOP and their supporters far, far, far, far outweighs that from the Democrats and their supporters.

159

Beltboy Wed, Sep 7, 2011 2:48:23pm

re: #158 Obdicut

Tell that to the Republican Wisconsin State Legislators who all recieved death threats to themselves and their families for how they voted.
Or Jesse Jackson saying the tea party supports a “slave amendment”.
Or Maxine Waters saying “the tea party can go straight to hell”.

There’s more than enough, unfortunately, to go around.

160

Gepetto Wed, Sep 7, 2011 2:49:57pm

re: #148 Obdicut

I think this kind of rhetoric and incendiary speech has always been part of our politics, from current political parties and extinct political parties, from mainstream to fringe. It has often been much much “worse”, if you think the current language is “bad”. War imagery, violent metaphors and personal insults seem never to be far from the thoughts of those we choose to lead us. Trying to divine actual intent to harm from inflamed metaphor is asinine, and leads to each side putting themselves in the ridiculous bind of defending hyperbolic speech as innocuous on their favored side and dangerous when coming from the other side.

Given that this kind of speech has always been with us, and not restricted to one faction, its rational to take none of it so seriously. If the framework is political you’re just as much a fool if you believe “take ‘em out” is a physical threat as you are if you believe a surveyor’s mark over a district is a physical threat

161

Obdicut Wed, Sep 7, 2011 2:51:37pm

re: #160 Gepetto

Rhetoric, yes. But for some reason, you’re ignoring the “We came unarmed this time” sort of statement, which goes far beyond rhetoric.

Why is that?

162

makeitstop Wed, Sep 7, 2011 2:52:33pm

Man, the poor MBF is getting a workout today.
/

163

Gepetto Wed, Sep 7, 2011 2:56:42pm

re: #153 uncah91

That said, that map existed within a context on the right that was advocating second amendment remedies and actually murdering doctors who perform abortions, so it SHOULD be more sensitive on the right.

And the violent history of leftist bombings and union protests is well documented, as are the violent responses. I believe, in fact, there have been far more beatings and killings in union protests than abortionists killed or injured. So, no, if you require sensitivity, it must be on all sides.

164

Gepetto Wed, Sep 7, 2011 3:00:23pm

re: #161 Obdicut

Rhetoric, yes. But for some reason, you’re ignoring the “We came unarmed this time” sort of statement, which goes far beyond rhetoric.

Why is that?

i am very mindful of that statement. do we really need to cover similar statements from fringes of the left? Because there are many, as you know.

165

Interesting Times Wed, Sep 7, 2011 3:03:38pm

re: #163 Gepetto

re: #164 Gepetto

Image: wikipedian_protester.png

166

Gepetto Wed, Sep 7, 2011 3:04:58pm

re: #162 makeitstop

Man, the poor MBF is getting a workout today.
/

then put her away and actually join the debate.

167

ProBosniaLiberal Wed, Sep 7, 2011 3:10:08pm

re: #166 Gepetto

In my lifetime, the worst damage the radical left has done is a bunch of vandalism on steroids.

The days of the violent radical left are long gone, ending in the 70’s.

However, the Right-Wing has now taken that violence is okay. Between the attacks on abortion clinics, OKC, and most recently the Norwegian Terror Attacks show this.

And if your going to whine about the unions, how about you get the hell out of this country, and go to one where unions don’t exist and have no effect, like China.

Your hypocritical right wing ass will be whining in 2 seconds.

168

makeitstop Wed, Sep 7, 2011 3:10:21pm

re: #166 Gepetto

then put her away and actually join the debate.

I really don’t have any interest in a debate based upon a dishonest premise.

169

jamesfirecat Wed, Sep 7, 2011 3:34:49pm

re: #163 Gepetto

And the violent history of leftist bombings and union protests is well documented, as are the violent responses. I believe, in fact, there have been far more beatings and killings in union protests than abortionists killed or injured. So, no, if you require sensitivity, it must be on all sides.

How many union protesters were killed in the process of trying to allow people to unionize?

If you keep inflicting violence upon people its no surprise that they become violent in return.

170

Gepetto Wed, Sep 7, 2011 3:56:19pm

re: #167 ProLifeLiberal

In my lifetime, the worst damage the radical left has done is a bunch of vandalism on steroids.

The days of the violent radical left are long gone, ending in the 70’s.

However, the Right-Wing has now taken that violence is okay. Between the attacks on abortion clinics, OKC, and most recently the Norwegian Terror Attacks show this.

And if your going to whine about the unions, how about you get the hell out of this country, and go to one where unions don’t exist and have no effect, like China.

Your hypocritical right wing ass will be whining in 2 seconds.

the point was attempted that right wing inflammatory rhetoric was more dangerous because of killings over abortion. I was merely stating that when a union member uses inflammatory rhetoric, it also carries with it a shadow of violence. If you think Hoffa or other union luminaries don’t know this, you are a fool. It is no concern of mine that your conclusions are rather egotistically based on your short lifespan. My point had nothing to do with whether or not I think unions have merit, I most definitely believe they do.

China has 137 million trade union members, BTW. If you’re looking for a country totally devoid of unions, perhaps Egypt, Pakistan, Jordan or Honduras might be a better example.

171

Gepetto Wed, Sep 7, 2011 3:56:45pm

re: #169 jamesfirecat

agreed.

172

Obdicut Wed, Sep 7, 2011 5:02:40pm

re: #170 Gepetto

Why the fuck are you portraying union violence as one sided?

More union organizers and protesters were killed, than were killers.

Revisionism sucks.

173

Gepetto Wed, Sep 7, 2011 6:34:32pm

re: #172 Obdicut

Why the fuck are you portraying union violence as one sided?

More union organizers and protesters were killed, than were killers.

Revisionism sucks.

i most certainly did not portray it as one sided. Your reading comprehension is obviously below par.

174

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:09:43pm

re: #72 Beltboy

The left is not known to have masses of gun-toting fundie fanatics.

What do you call the “inner-city”?

The fundie fanatics in the inner city—we like to call them church ladies—tend to be the ones against guns.

175

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:11:02pm

re: #85 Sergey Romanov

All those n’s with illegal guns, they’re obvious libs!

/need I?

They’re on the ‘Democrat plantation’, remember.

176

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Sep 7, 2011 7:58:21pm

re: #146 Gepetto

Its just the Chicago way, i’nnit? As long as I’m concerned, anyone who can’t see this can just go straight to hell.

Hey crazy grandpa, whassup bro

177

Gepetto Wed, Sep 7, 2011 8:11:13pm

re: #176 WindUpBird

not much bird, wassup wichoo?

178

Stephen T. Thu, Sep 8, 2011 8:12:00am

re: #164 Gepetto

i am very mindful of that statement. do we really need to cover similar statements from fringes of the left? Because there are many, as you know.

I would like links to any left wing calls for violence, and I mean actual calls for violence similar to “second amendment solutions” and “unarmed… this time” quotes.

Please provide as many as you can.

179

Gepetto Thu, Sep 8, 2011 9:18:03am

re: #178 Scarecrow237

I would like links to any left wing calls for violence, and I mean actual calls for violence similar to “second amendment solutions” and “unarmed… this time” quotes.

Please provide as many as you can.

thats quite a game you are proposing. I assume it will go something like this: I would post a quote from Mark Malloy, Bill Maher, Ward Churchill or some other person, and you would say: “out of context”, “not a representative of the Left”, “you’re missing the nuance”, “just an entertainer” etc etc etc.

So here’s one that rivals the idotic “unarmed..this time sign”….

Because filing briefs don’t stop bullets, and when the ballot box fails us, we are not above seeing what’s in the ammo box.” — Daily Kos diarist, pinche tejano

180

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Sep 8, 2011 10:30:23am

re: #179 Gepetto

thats quite a game you are proposing.

Not really. Can you produce them or not?

PS - I’d stay away from blogs and comments on online forums. You really don’t want me to have to list the hourly postings at Atlas Shrugs, Freeperville, Fox Nation and other sites packed with rwnj proxy-killer cowards.

181

Gepetto Thu, Sep 8, 2011 11:37:22am

re: #180 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

here’s an example fresh from yesterday. and its actual violence, not rhetorical violence:

[Link: news.yahoo.com…]

once again, my point is not that unions are terrible, just that rhetorical violence often carries the weight of history. On all sides. Its the bonus feature that gives teeth to the rhetoric. Its always been part of the political debate. Always.

182

Gepetto Thu, Sep 8, 2011 12:24:20pm

re: #180 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

re: #178 Scarecrow237

“I’m proud to be here with people who understand that it’s more than just sending an email to get you going. Every once and awhile you need to get out on the streets and get a little bloody when necessary,”
Rep. Michael Capuano (D-Mass.)

183

jamesfirecat Thu, Sep 8, 2011 3:22:02pm

re: #181 Gepetto

here’s an example fresh from yesterday. and its actual violence, not rhetorical violence:

[Link: news.yahoo.com…]

once again, my point is not that unions are terrible, just that rhetorical violence often carries the weight of history. On all sides. Its the bonus feature that gives teeth to the rhetoric. Its always been part of the political debate. Always.

According to the story itself no one was hurt in the process. That makes it vandalism /industrial sabotage/ a great many illegal things, but it doesn’t really make it political violence does it?

184

jamesfirecat Thu, Sep 8, 2011 3:26:52pm

re: #182 Gepetto

re: #178 Scarecrow237

“I’m proud to be here with people who understand that it’s more than just sending an email to get you going. Every once and awhile you need to get out on the streets and get a little bloody when necessary,”
Rep. Michael Capuano (D-Mass.)

“I want people in Minnesota armed and dangerous on this issue of the energy tax because we need to fight back.” —- Michele Bachmann R-Presidential Candidate/MN

185

Gepetto Thu, Sep 8, 2011 3:46:33pm

re: #183 jamesfirecat

you’re splitting hairs. the poles for their protest signs were baseball bats. they kidnapped and “detained” security guards. they cut the air brake lines on the RR cars, and they ruined thousands of pounds of grain by spilling it on the ground.

186

Gepetto Thu, Sep 8, 2011 3:52:19pm

re: #184 jamesfirecat

you proved my point. we can go back and forth with quotes and deeds all day, which means that political rhetoric is ubiquitous. We should either condemn it in toto or accept that it has always happened.

Now I’m going to go read the brilliant commentary on the zombie game where you kill zombie versions of right wingers. I’m sure it will be deemed much ado about nothing.

187

jamesfirecat Thu, Sep 8, 2011 4:06:05pm

re: #186 Gepetto

you proved my point. we can go back and forth with quotes and deeds all day, which means that political rhetoric is ubiquitous. We should either condemn it in toto or accept that it has always happened.

Now I’m going to go read the brilliant commentary on the zombie game where you kill zombie versions of right wingers. I’m sure it will be deemed much ado about nothing.

Yes I condemn the words, but its foolish to think the two sides are equal. Because we can’t go back and forth with deeds all day.

In this day and age you don’t see abortion activists killing people in churches.

You don’t see left wing people gunning down children a camp to teach those kids to grow up to be good Republicans.

There have been many violent and deadly outbursts by people with right wing motivation that has resulted in death since Obama’s election, what left wing ones can you name in turn?

188

Gepetto Thu, Sep 8, 2011 6:46:03pm

re: #187 jamesfirecat

if you’re going international, then the violence at the G20 conferences, the anti-government riots in Greece, Spain and England must be laid at the feet of the left wing, as does most eco-terrorism.

Look, we can each narrow the focus to a timespan that will support our arguments. I just don’t buy the argument that its more okay for one “side” to use incendiary rhetoric because that side is currently considered less capable of violence right at this moment.

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