Jon Stewart Skewers GOP Anti-Science Idiocy and Media Complicity

Excellent must-see Daily Show episodes from October 26, 2011

HumorOctober 2011 • Views: 46,180

Finally, someone other than LGF is paying attention to the GOP’s criminally stupid anti-science attitudes and their media enablers. Thank you, Jon Stewart:

Video

You can find a full transcript of the above segment here.

Also a must-see is this Aasif Mandvi piece from the same show in which he interviews disgustingly dumb Fox News analyst Noelle Nikpour. WARNING: her abject anti-intellectualism and know-nothing nincompoopery may cause you to throw things at the screen:

Video

If you ever wondered what kinds of people advocated burning witches at the stake, we have their modern equivalent in the modern GOP. Just grotesque.

Jump to bottom

207 comments

RanchTooth Thu, Oct 27, 2011 9:09:33am

Noelle makes a terrible first assumption. Grant money that scientists receive and income that they are generally unrelated (unless the grant is for the hiring of students/post-docs/etc, but that would still not be for personal gain).

Then... She just makes a blathering fool out of herself. My god. Shared with all of my science friends for the sheer comedic value.

Gus Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:14:31am

News media isn't interested in information let alone science. Unfortunately their prime goal is to generate revenue. They've long ago become more entertainment than news. If they perceive being "skeptics" as being a way to generate larger audiences and generate more revenue they'll do it with nor regard to ethical considerations. Let alone the economic interests involved. So if news outlets can make more revenue feeding ignorance they won't think twice about what they're doing.

Charles Johnson Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:18:06am

These are funny clips, but they're illustrating a terrible problem.

An amazingly comprehensive study has confirmed that the Earth is warming, in exactly the way scientists have been telling us, and the media don't even bother to report it -- while the utterly bogus and deliberately distorted "Climategate" hoax got wall to wall coverage.

Not good at all.

freetoken Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:21:15am

The Mandvi piece is funny; I wonder how CC comes up with some of this stuff, and then pull it off.

ProGunLiberal Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:27:41am

Sorry to fly off topic so early, but I found this on Wikipedia in relation to Yemen.

Yesterday, this was reported.

In southern Yemen, an Antonov military cargo plane carrying 15 members of the Syrian and Yemeni armed services crashed near al-Anad Airbase in Lahij Governorate, killing three Syrians and one Yemeni on impact, AFP reported

Today, this special little piece came from Egypt.

Egyptian daily Akhbar El Yom reported that the previous day's crash was a deliberate act by the aircraft's Yemeni pilot to prevent Syrian Air Force personnel aboard from being delivered on loan from their home country in order to bomb protesters on behalf of the Yemeni government. According to the article, the pilot's coworkers confirmed the plan was premeditated and the Syrian on board were not technicians as previously claimed, but MiG pilots.

It looks like the Yemen and Syrian governments may be trying to save each other.

Also, the death toll in Syria is at least 3,615 now, while Yemen is hovering around 1,600 to 1,800.

freetoken Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:30:35am

I see that on Twitter Noelle Nikpour seems to have enjoyed her time at the Daily Show.

Does she realize how skewered she and her opinions were by Mandvi?

Obdicut Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:32:35am

Ugh.

The US used to pride itself on leading the world in science. Then the religious right realized it was an enormous voting block-- or the GOP realized that they were. A deal was made. At the same time, the short-visioned, nihilistic types who don't give a shit if their companies destroy the common land, air, and water as long as they make a profit realized that they could just spend money on propaganda more cheaply than on actually making their products environmentally safe. And so they channeled huge amounts of money into the most cynical, dishonest propaganda allowed, wrapping themselves in the first amendment in order to do it.

And now here we are. Science is degraded, demonized, laughed at, dismissed by the people who depend on it for their survival at every moment of their lives. Now the irreligious glibertarians are on board too, all huffy because they think that if they can't personally grasp something or do it it must be bullshit. You've got morons saying that scientists can't possibly predict things with a 95% degree of accuracy. You've got glibertarians who are certain that somehow we'll 'adapt'-- as if that adaptation wouldn't depend on science that they're rejecting.

It's ridiculous. It's unconscionable. It's terrible for this nation.

But the constant propaganda has worked. This is one of the results of treating money like speech, and in breaking down the barriers between church and state.

The US will not remain an economic superpower if this continues. We will fall behind. Prayers don't fuel the economy, scientific discovery does.

Interesting Times in Benghazi Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:32:41am

re: #6 freetoken

I see that on Twitter Noelle Nikpour seems to have enjoyed her time at the Daily Show.

Does she realize how skewered she and her opinions were by Mandvi?

Only if her stupidity was willfull as opposed to genuine. It's seriously getting to the point where I can't tell anymore.

Shiplord Kirel Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:33:04am

Speaking of climate change and witch burners, it's snowing in Lubbock right now (earliest snowfall since 1970).
The yokel wits will no doubt fall over themselves declaring that this refutes global warming and climate change, "that global warming stopped a little early this year, yuck, yuck, yuck."
This actually proves two things:
The media have done a poor job of explaining the likely effects and morons should not comment on scientific issues.

Gus Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:33:11am

re: #6 freetoken

I see that on Twitter Noelle Nikpour seems to have enjoyed her time at the Daily Show.

Does she realize how skewered she and her opinions were by Mandvi?

You know how it goes. "Any publicity is better than no publicity" is how they operate. The only other place I've ever seen her was on Fox's "Red Eye." She may actually be that thick.

freetoken Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:36:39am

re: #10 Gus 802

She hasn't updated her blog in a couple of years. I suspect that she doesn't get much $$$ from Club for Growth and Fox and the RNC to make it her worthwhile to keep up her public persona online.

aagcobb Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:38:10am

OK, Noelle Nikpour willing participated as part of a comedy skit, right? She couldn't have been serious, could she?

Big Steve Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:38:50am

guessing that, next, Fox News shall have us voting on gravity...

freetoken Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:38:56am

re: #12 aagcobb

See her tweets for how much she enjoyed it.

Gus Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:39:57am

FEC Report for NIKPOUR, NOELLE.

Contributions to Political Committees

NIKPOUR, NOELLE
LITTLE ROCK, AR 72207
SELF-EMPLOYED/POLITICAL CONSULTAN

CRAVINS, DONALD R JR
VIA DONALD CRAVINS JR FOR CONGRESS
10/23/2008 1500.00 28934747681

NIKPOUR, NOELLE
LITTLE ROCK, AR 72225

COLEMAN, NORM
VIA COLEMAN FOR SENATE 08
05/17/2004 -2000.00 24020483456

STEELE, MICHAEL
VIA STEELE FOR MARYLAND INC
09/30/2006 500.00 26020972552

NIKPOUR, NOELLE
LITTLE ROCK, AR 72225
CONSULTANT

COLEMAN, NORM
VIA COLEMAN FOR SENATE 08
05/03/2004 2000.00 24020483360
05/17/2004 -2000.00 24020483360

NIKPOUR, NOELLE
LITTLE ROCK, AR 72225
IMPACT MANAGEMENT CO

HUTCHINSON, TIM
VIA HUTCHINSON FOR SENATE
05/02/2001 1000.00 21020160159

NIKPOUR, NOELLE
LITTLE ROCK, AR 72225
SELF EMPLOYED/CONSULTANT

HASTERT, J DENNIS
VIA HASTERT FOR CONGRESS COMMITTEE
06/27/2004 1000.00 24971317437

NIKPOUR, NOELLE
LITTLE ROCK, AR 72225
SELF/CONSULTANT

COLEMAN, NORM
VIA COLEMAN FOR SENATE 08
10/11/2007 1230.00 28020060483
11/13/2007 1069.00 28020060484

NIKPOUR, NOELLE
LITTLE ROCK, AR 72225
SELF/POLITICAL CONSULTANT

CITIZENS CLUB FOR GROWTH INC PAC
01/12/2004 500.00 24990525003

NIKPOUR, NOELLE M MS.
LITTLE ROCK, AR 72225
RICERCIA & ASSOCIATES/POLITICAL C

BUSH, GEORGE W
VIA BUSH-CHENEY '04 (PRIMARY) INC
10/15/2003 1000.00 24990262539
11/10/2003 1000.00 24990262539

NIKPOUR, NOELLE M MS.
LITTLE ROCK, AR 72225
SELF-EMPLOYED

AMERICA'S FOUNDATION
08/31/2004 2000.00 24962861330

NIKPOUR, NOELLE M.
LITTLE ROCK, AR 72225
RICERCIA & ASSOCIATES/POLITICAL C

RESTORE AMERICA PAC, INC
06/08/2006 500.00 26940223741

Total Contributions: 9299.00

ProGunLiberal Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:40:07am

I just found this on TVtropes

Clinton: US confused by 'power struggle' in Iran

Short version: We don't know who is running Iran anymore.

aagcobb Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:40:23am

re: #14 freetoken

See her tweets for how much she enjoyed it.

Thing is, even though she was in on the joke, that's how lots of the GOP base actually think.

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:41:06am

re: #9 Shiplord Kirel

Speaking of climate change and witch burners, it's snowing in Lubbock right now (earliest snowfall since 1970).
The yokel wits will no doubt fall over themselves declaring that this refutes global warming and climate change, "that global warming stopped a little early this year, yuck, yuck, yuck."
This actually proves two things:
The media have done a poor job of explaining the likely effects and morons should not comment on scientific issues.

I'm already hearing "Global Warming my ass" from "friends" up here in the northeast about the current and projected snowfall. Half the ignorance is willful - don't want to disturb cherished notions of who or what is right and wrong.

Charleston Chew Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:41:11am

re: #6 freetoken

I see that on Twitter Noelle Nikpour seems to have enjoyed her time at the Daily Show.

Does she realize how skewered she and her opinions were by Mandvi?

Noelle Nikpour belongs on Comedy Central. I've never seen anyone play the fool on the Daily Show to that degree who wasn't on their payroll. She's going to put comedy writers out of work.

Killgore Trout Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:41:24am

re: #16 ProLifeLiberal

We're not quite sure who makes decisions anymore inside of Iran," she said.

Mrs Clinton said that she believes the country is morphing into a military dictatorship.

That's a curious development.

jaunte Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:41:54am

I saw this last night, and couldn't believe how dumb that woman was; I kept waiting for her show that she was in on the joke, but it never happened. This kind of willful ignorance is hard to parody.

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:42:14am

re: #17 aagcobb

Thing is, even though she was in on the joke, that's how lots of the GOP base actually think.

She'll tweet soon that she "was joking". Isn't that SOP now?

Big Steve Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:43:11am

re: #20 Killgore Trout

That's a curious development.

methinks this is a feint by Secretary Clinton.

ProGunLiberal Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:44:12am

re: #20 Killgore Trout

re: #23 Big Steve

They say the first hint they got of this was the attempted assassination/terror plot earlier this month.

Gus Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:44:37am

Some history.

Conservative media unleash anti-gay rhetoric in attacks on Jennings
October 01, 2009 10:00 am ET

On Hannity, Noelle Nikpour said "gay activist" Jennings is Obama's most dangerous czar. On his Fox News show, Hannity asked Republican strategist Noelle Nikpour, "Who do you think is the most dangerous?" Nikpour answered: "Well, I think it's Kevin Jennings. Not only that, that he's a gay activist, but he was part of the GLISTEN. He was the former director for GLISTEN. They held a conference in which techniques for, I think it was, homosexuality, how to perform different techniques. That's insane." The Wall Street Journal's Stephen Moore then added, "Remember, we -- used to be that sex education was putting condoms on bananas. Lord knows what they're going to do now." [Hannity, 9/18/09 (from Nexis)]

freetoken Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:45:57am

re: #18 oaktree

I'm already hearing "Global Warming my ass" from "friends" up here in the northeast about the current and projected snowfall. Half the ignorance is willful - don't want to disturb cherished notions of who or what is right and wrong.

With an increase in global atmospheric temperature will come an increase in precipitation at the higher latitutdes.

As I've said before, snow is "precipitation".

It snows in the summer at high enough latitudes (in the mountains). Snow is simply solid water, and the high clouds one can see occasionally are usually composed of ice crystals, no matter what the season. Most people don't realize that temperature drops rapidly with elevation in the atmosphere, unless they happen to be pilots and experience the temperature difference at altitudes regularly.

Vicious Babushka Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:46:58am

re: #19 Charleston Chew

Noelle Nikpour belongs on Comedy Central.

I'm sure she wants a gig on "South Park"

Charleston Chew Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:47:02am

re: #9 Shiplord Kirel

Speaking of climate change and witch burners, it's snowing in Lubbock right now (earliest snowfall since 1970).
The yokel wits will no doubt fall over themselves declaring that this refutes global warming and climate change, "that global warming stopped a little early this year, yuck, yuck, yuck."
This actually proves two things:
The media have done a poor job of explaining the likely effects and morons should not comment on scientific issues.

With these people you have to fight fire with fire... literally, by reminding them of that one summer Texas burnt down. You know, the one a few weeks ago.

wrenchwench Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:47:40am

Oooh, Gus is hot on the Google again!

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:48:10am

re: #3 Charles

You are right of course about the failure of the media to to say anything about Mueller's latest study. But the reporting on the stolen e-mails was a fraud and a smear job to begin with, that was easily debunked at the time, by even the most basic due diligence. Science is not based on just one study.

I know I am preaching to the choir with you, and I deeply admire the way you have stuck to shouting about this. But we can't treat this as a blow by blow. The salient facts were in place decades ago. By the 1990's no one legitimate in the climate community had any doubts. We have over 100 years of concern about climate change in the scientific community. I keep pointing out that the first major report on the dangers of climate change from the National Academy went to president Johnson in 1965 not because I doubt the readers here don't know that, but to illustrate how much of a disservice to facts are being done.

1965 is a long time ago. In the intervening 56 years the data has only become more and more overwhelming. There are at this point literally millions of man years of observations confirming climate change because the data comes in from so many different disciplines and is confirmed by so many different lines of reasoning. The science would have been established no matter what Mueller had said.

What is much worse is the continued stupidity and arrogance that useless and dangerous liars like Noelle Nikpour represent and the tragic indifference of the average American.

I know that bills are tough right now. I know that the average American is so lazy they can't be bothered to read a legitimate science source - or even browse the NASA or NOAA website to learn some facts. But why can't people realize that science is saying this will kill them and destroy our nation as thoroughly as a nuclear exchange? If the scientists are saying that our food won't be there, our bread basket a dust bowl, that we won't have enough fresh water, that our contagions will spread across new areas without immunities and that our coastal cities will be washed out... doesn't it behoove people to at least try to understand?

They can't be bothered by that.

No, that would require too much thinking. For some, it would require going against what their bought and paid for political party has told them to believe.

Even simple things can not be thought out. Consider projection! Scientists going after money? Really, why don't average Americans actually follow the money for once? Who stands to loose more financially, the scientists who don't make a lot to begin with, or the oil companies and fossil fuel interests? Where exactly is the money? If money is a motivation to lie, who has more money at stake? The entire science budget of America dedicated to climate or climate related work runs in the millions per year. Compare that to tens of billions on the other side.

Even thinking that clearly is impossible for the Average American and evil bits of trash like Noelle Nikpour. She will happily even project that it is somehow bad that scientists do peer review. Well it isn't as if we hide anything. We are going to fail as a species and die out because the average person was too dumb and too venal to care until it was much too lte.

Big Steve Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:48:28am

I think there should be a test before anyone is able to get on the media and talk science. Something basic. I propose the following:

1. Draw a circle with a pie piece missing.
2. Indicate that the missing piece angle is 25 degrees.
3. Indicate that the circumference of the circle minus the missing piece is 2 feet.

4. Require the person to solve for the area of the full circle including the missing piece.

jaunte Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:48:32am

re: #25 Gus 802

That reminds me, I don't think we've heard much 'czar' outrage lately.

dragonfire1981 Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:48:37am

In my view, both political parties have done a poor job in addressing scientific issues, though the GOP has done far worse than the Democrats.

I think that's in part due to several reasons.

Firstly, global warming and climate change just aren't huge issues among voters. With a soft job market, a delicate economy and a massive national debt, voters are more concerned with economic and financial issues than they are with the scientific.

A second problem is that America as a whole has done a really terrible job of educating the general populace on science, whether through schools, the media or wherever. Most people just don't understand science much at all, which is kind of heartbreaking as it's such an important thing in our lives.

I don't ever recall the kind of public backlash against science (and in particular climate science) in Canada that we see here in America.

It amazes me how some people are so quick to bash science and scientists.

Without science, we wouldn't have ANY of the medical and technological advances we enjoy today.

No medicines, no computers, no pacemakers, no defibrillators, no Aspirin, no Ipads, no Playstations, no engines. Heck, no electric appliances at all as a matter of fact.

The list goes on and on and on.

A lot of these anti science folk remind me of the Simpsons episode where a comet is due to hit Springfield.

After the threat is over, Moe exclaims "Now let's go burn down the Observatory so this doesn't happen again!"

I just can't fathom how easily some of these people can straight up ignore things that should be pretty obvious to anyone with HALF a brain.

On another note, Nikpour seems to have no clue that Mandvi is basically making fun of her viewpoints. I think she actually believes he's as much against science as she is.

Killgore Trout Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:48:45am

re: #23 Big Steve

methinks this is a feint by Secretary Clinton.

Interesting theory.

Gus Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:49:30am

re: #29 wrenchwench

Oooh, Gus is hot on the Google again!

:) Quickly! Getting cold again all of the sudden and I'm debating hiding under the sleeping bag.

Vicious Babushka Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:49:44am

re: #26 freetoken

With an increase in global atmospheric temperature will come an increase in precipitation at the higher latitutdes.

As I've said before, snow is "precipitation".

It snows in the summer at high enough latitudes (in the mountains). Snow is simply solid water, and the high clouds one can see occasionally are usually composed of ice crystals, no matter what the season. Most people don't realize that temperature drops rapidly with elevation in the atmosphere, unless they happen to be pilots and experience the temperature difference at altitudes regularly.

You mean "altitudes."

NJDhockeyfan Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:49:56am

re: #16 ProLifeLiberal

I just found this on TVtropes

Clinton: US confused by 'power struggle' in Iran

Short version: We don't know who is running Iran anymore.

How can this be? Ahmadinejad won by a landslide last time.

///

Big Steve Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:52:26am

re: #30 LudwigVanQuixote

1965 is a long time ago. In the intervening 56 years the data has only become more and more overwhelming.

Good post! Not to be trivial but I believe 1965 was 46 years ago.

Gus Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:52:31am

Central Park Conservancy's 2004 Frederick Law Olmsted Luncheon

...Other boldfacers in boldly small hats (purchased in London) included Jane Cooney (in Herbert Johnson’s pink feathered confection) and Marilyn Miglin (in a navy Peter Bettley picked up at Harrod’s). She lunched amongst the Chanel-clad crew at the table of Noelle Nikpour who flew in from Arkansas for the event....

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:53:54am

re: #18 oaktree

I'm already hearing "Global Warming my ass" from "friends" up here in the northeast about the current and projected snowfall. Half the ignorance is willful - don't want to disturb cherished notions of who or what is right and wrong.

God forbid, they understand the grade school science that explains the basic effect.

Warmer water dumps more vapor into the atmosphere. A warmer atmosphere can hold more water vapor in suspension. When winter does come and that water vapor is hit by cold air, there is more of it to come down as either rain or snow.

Ironically, even with all that snow, it is still warmer over all.

I get that your friends are wilfully ignorant and cherishing their little egos. They are also through their ignorance and support of candidates who will do nothing helping to kill themselves and you. Ignorance is not a defence in this case. I really am tired of protecting the feelings of the stupid, when their stupidity will get innocent people killed.

Schadenfreude 'r' Us Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:53:59am

This is all particularly depressing because science is the most "democratic" thing there ever was. No secret magical techniques, no revelations from on high, no hidden knowledge: if you ask the right question, you will ALWAYS get an answer, and if you're willing to take the time, you can demonstrate the accuracy of every assertion it makes.

The bad news is that hidden knowledge makes people feel special, and revelations from on high allow them to be lazy. Science requires study (and < shudder > math).

Big Steve Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:54:18am

re: #34 Killgore Trout

Interesting theory.

Wonder if there is some "Iranian Fall" thing brewing that she is trying to fan the embers.

Gus Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:54:20am

$1,000 Prk Vu, Dinner and Wine Included

'Great! I love it!'' said Dr. Maria Theresia von Wietersheim, visiting from Munich, as she stood in the pouring rain watching the fireworks. Noelle Nikpour, a member of the Central Park Conservancy from Arkansas who was watching safely from behind glass, said that she had flown from Little Rock on her Gulfstream IV to attend the party.

Vicious Babushka Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:55:41am

re: #43 Gus 802

$1,000 Prk Vu, Dinner and Wine Included

'Great! I love it!'' said Dr. Maria Theresia von Wietersheim, visiting from Munich, as she stood in the pouring rain watching the fireworks. Noelle Nikpour, a member of the Central Park Conservancy from Arkansas who was watching safely from behind glass, said that she had flown from Little Rock on her Gulfstream IV to attend the party.

I gather that Noelle is part of the 1%. Maybe the 0.1%.

Gus Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:56:07am

Last two was by way of...

The case of the vanishing website

Ever heard of Noelle Nikpour, a Little Rocker who's dabbled in Republican-side political consulting? She also made the society pages in New York back during her friendship with a Little Rock trust funder. (This NY Times social note had her flying to one event on "her" Gulfstream.)

Arkansas Business did a judicious screensave on the website for a new venture of hers, edited since AB asked about it. You'll have to follow the links for the titllation.

And the Wayback Machine.

Gus Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:56:50am

re: #44 Alouette

I gather that Noelle is part of the 1%. Maybe the 0.1%.

Probably. $9,800 for FEC contributions is kind of rare except for a select few.

freetoken Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:57:14am

re: #30 LudwigVanQuixote

1965 is a long time ago. In the intervening 56 years the data has only become more and more overwhelming.

"56 years". Well, if you think that is long, think about this: it's been almost 200 years since geologists figured out that sedimentary rocks were laid down layer by layer over long spans of time, and roughly 40% of the American population believe it happened in a matter of days because of some global flood 4000 years ago.

56 years is nothing.

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:57:42am

re: #38 Big Steve

Good post! Not to be trivial but I believe 1965 was 46 years ago.

Typo ... and I can't seem to fix it even though I have tried three times.

Gus Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:58:37am

Political Strategist Noelle Nikpours' Racy Website Replaced
By Arkansas Business Staff
3/17/2008 9:14:01 AM

Back in August, Method Creative Group of Little Rock announced that it had been hired by "international political consultant and strategist" Noelle Nikpour of Little Rock to develop a Web site and "to manage publicity and marketing strategy for her forthcoming media brand."

"Nikpour's experience," Method noted, "has helped elect a President, four Governors and countless U. S. Senators and Congressmen."

Online domain registries indicate that NoelleNikpour.com was finally created on Feb. 18, but to say it has launched is generous.

Continues.

Gus Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:59:28am

And here it is...

[Link: www.arkansasbusiness.com...]

Gus Thu, Oct 27, 2011 10:59:59am

NTTAWWT

JeffM70 Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:00:20am

Sweet Jesus on a grilled cheese sandwich, please tell me that she was only playing along.

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:00:50am

Charles, I missed a typo in my number 30.

The number 56 should be 46, I can't fix it and I would appreciate a hand... thanks!

Killgore Trout Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:01:21am

Dow +336
Hooray!

Varek Raith Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:02:46am

re: #54 Killgore Trout

Dow +336
Hooray!

For the rich.
Me?
Big whoop.
;)

freetoken Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:04:42am

re: #54 Killgore Trout

Dow +336
Hooray!

Well...

US GDP has finally caught up to where it was pre-recession... initial unemployment claims are down... the Europeans seem to be waddling towards some agreement on debt...

... so the crowd on Wall Street thinks happy days are here again?

dragonfire1981 Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:06:14am

And I should point out that I am a Christian who respects science and believes full well my faith can peacefully co-exist with my appreciation and interest in scientific things.

Shiplord Kirel Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:06:41am

re: #28 Charleston Chew

With these people you have to fight fire with fire... literally, by reminding them of that one summer Texas burnt down. You know, the one a few weeks ago.

They tend to have pathologically short memories, which is why they think a movement founded barely a century ago is the "Old time Biblical religion."

iossarian Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:07:03am

re: #25 Gus 802

Some history.

Conservative media unleash anti-gay rhetoric in attacks on Jennings
October 01, 2009 10:00 am ET

Nikpour appears to be a stripper who mostly manages to stay in pundit's clothing.

Of course, sexual promiscuity is perfectly acceptable as long as it's vaguely attractive young women taking off their clothes for the benefit of fat old white men.

Charleston Chew Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:07:29am

re: #50 Gus 802

And here it is...

[Link: www.arkansasbusiness.com...]

Holy Cow. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how you get to fly in a Gulfstream IV.

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:08:27am

re: #47 freetoken

"56 years". Well, if you think that is long, think about this: it's been almost 200 years since geologists figured out that sedimentary rocks were laid down layer by layer over long spans of time, and roughly 40% of the American population believe it happened in a matter of days because of some global flood 4000 years ago.

56 years is nothing.

Well typo aside, I really did mean 46 years, I suppose that is a matter of perspective.

46 years was about the time it took to go from rudimentary atomic theory to relativity, quantum theory, nuclear physics and an atomic bomb.

It is about the time it took to go from discovering DNA to a human genome.

It is about the time it took to go from the first clumsy chemical rockets launched by Goddard to a moonshot.

It is about the time it took for human activity to threaten the entire global ecology.

Gus Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:08:32am

re: #60 Charleston Chew

Holy Cow. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how you get to fly in a Gulfstream IV.

Yeah. You think the old fart Arkansas Republicans went gaga over that?

Killgore Trout Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:08:56am

re: #56 freetoken

Well...

US GDP has finally caught up to where it was pre-recession... initial unemployment claims are down... the Europeans seem to be waddling towards some agreement on debt...

... so the crowd on Wall Street thinks happy days are here again?

Maybe the hippie drum circles are working.

freetoken Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:09:11am

One of the neat science news stories of the day:

Gene therapy used in a bid to save a man's sight

Researchers in Oxford have treated a man with an advanced gene therapy technique to prevent him from losing his sight.

It is the first time that anyone has tried to correct a genetic defect in the light-sensing cells that line the back of the eye.

The president of the Academy of Medical Sciences said the widespread use of gene therapy of this treatment will be soon be possible.

[...]

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:10:00am

re: #64 freetoken

One of the neat science news stories of the day:

Gene therapy used in a bid to save a man's sight

Researchers in Oxford have treated a man with an advanced gene therapy technique to prevent him from losing his sight.

It is the first time that anyone has tried to correct a genetic defect in the light-sensing cells that line the back of the eye.

The president of the Academy of Medical Sciences said the widespread use of gene therapy of this treatment will be soon be possible.

[...]

Speaking of time scales around 50 years... how long ago were Watson and Crick?

jaunte Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:10:05am

re: #59 iossarian

She raised money for this pro-voucher group, All Children Matter, Inc.
Maybe she's a conduit for soft money from one of these people:

The All Children Matter network receives large amounts of funding from a small group of ultra-wealthy donors. These donors include Dick DeVos and other members of his family, the estate of Wall-Mart heir John Walton, JC Huizenga, Ted Forstman, Dino Cortopassi, John D. Bryan, Joseph Robert, Jr., Peter Flannigan, Richard Gilder, Rick Sharp, Roger Hertog, Virginia Manheimer, and Bruce Kovner.

Charleston Chew Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:10:54am

re: #63 Killgore Trout

Maybe the hippie drum circles are working.

Youtube Video

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:13:07am

re: #43 Gus 802

$1,000 Prk Vu, Dinner and Wine Included

'Great! I love it!'' said Dr. Maria Theresia von Wietersheim, visiting from Munich, as she stood in the pouring rain watching the fireworks. Noelle Nikpour, a member of the Central Park Conservancy from Arkansas who was watching safely from behind glass, said that she had flown from Little Rock on her Gulfstream IV to attend the party.

While the rest of America struggles on...

The thought that I know graduate students with great ability who are struggling financially to the extent that they might leave the field, while trash like her is eating $1000 plates makes me want to scream.

Killgore Trout Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:13:29am

re: #67 Charleston Chew

[Video]

lol

Killgore Trout Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:14:06am

Wake Up America

Youtube Video

The chicken is my favorite.

Mattand Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:14:19am

I thought about posting the Mandvi interview via Twitter, which is hooked up to my Facebook page. Then I was like, "Why bother?" I have a few FB friends who are staunch conservatives. I'm almost interested in their reactions, although most likely it will either be:

A. That this woman doesn't represent "true" Republicans
B. A reference to some nutjob who sides with Democrats.

The problem, of course, is that this woman probably isn't as fringe as my GOP buds like to think. Which brings up another issue. If I share this with my more apolitical friends, they'll have the same take as the Republicans.

This is what worries me about stuff like this. The fact remains is that we've only two political parties in this country, and one of them views science the way a house cat views a jacuzzi. That is, with abject terror and hatred.

And the "average" American doesn't give a flying fuck.

Edited for grammar.

Charleston Chew Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:14:46am

re: #66 jaunte

She raised money for this pro-voucher group, All Children Matter, Inc.
Maybe she's a conduit for soft money from one of these people:

After seeing that picture of her proving she's not had an appendectomy, I thought of a few wisecracks, but none as good as "conduit for soft money".

Daniel Ballard Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:15:22am

re: #61 LudwigVanQuixote

Well typo aside, I really did mean 46 years, I suppose that is a matter of perspective.

46 years was about the time it took to go from rudimentary atomic theory to relativity, quantum theory, nuclear physics and an atomic bomb.

It is about the time it took to go from discovering DNA to a human genome.

It is about the time it took to go from the first clumsy chemical rockets launched by Goddard to a moonshot.

It is about the time it took for human activity to threaten the entire global ecology.

In that time we went from 6 billion to 7 billion people roughly. Has anyone ever run the numbers to see what size population the ecosphere could deal with? Just for perspective as in "we are 14 times beyond the ecological population limit with these emission levels" or whatever the number would be.

Gus Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:16:08am

re: #70 Killgore Trout

Wake Up America

[Video]The chicken is my favorite.

Randian art?

Charleston Chew Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:18:49am

re: #70 Killgore Trout

Wake Up America

[Video]The chicken is my favorite.

Ironically, according to his website, Jon McNaughton went to Brigham Young on a full tuition art scholarship. So he's okay with it raining other people's money on him.

Big Steve Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:19:00am

re: #65 LudwigVanQuixote

Speaking of time scales around 50 years... how long ago were Watson and Crick?

1953......and if you want to see the original paper in Nature ([Link: www.nature.com...] it is a wonder of brevity.

Obdicut Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:21:16am

re: #76 Big Steve

This remains my favorite Nature article:

[Link: www.nature.com...]

Big Steve Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:21:27am

re: #60 Charleston Chew

Holy Cow. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how you get to fly in a Gulfstream IV.

I just want to know, what the heck did happen to pubic hair.

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:22:11am

re: #73 Rightwingconspirator

In that time we went from 6 billion to 7 billion people roughly. Has anyone ever run the numbers to see what size population the ecosphere could deal with? Just for perspective as in "we are 14 times beyond the ecological population limit with these emission levels" or whatever the number would be.

That is a difficult question to answer.

If global warming were stopped, and everyone was limited to an average of 2000 calories a day, and we maximally utilized all of our land and sea resources in a sustainable way, you can calculate based on the amount of sunlight coming into the earth and the amounts of energy we can get for food from from it, that the max is around 18- 20 billion. Energy is after all conserved.

However,

That assumes that the oceans don't acidify and there aren't massive marine die offs (there are) that we don't destroy our breadbaskets - we are, and that the food is equally distributed.

With climate change, more and more, we will not be able to support our current population.

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:23:14am

re: #76 Big Steve

1953...and if you want to see the original paper in Nature ([Link: www.nature.com...] it is a wonder of brevity.

And the point is that 50 year time-scales are very long times in science since the scientific revolution.

Obdicut Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:23:21am

re: #79 LudwigVanQuixote

To put it another way: If we don't actually start doing things in a sustainable way, the number of supportable humans is very low, and for a quite limited amount of time.

Varek Raith Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:23:30am

LOL.

Inevitable: Right-Wing Media Freak Out Over Nonexistent "ACORN" Tie To Occupy Wall Street

freetoken Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:23:39am

re: #73 Rightwingconspirator

In that time we went from 6 billion to 7 billion roughly. Has anyone ever run the numbers to see what size population the ecosphere could deal with? Just for perspective as in "we are 14 times beyond the ecological population limit with these emission levels" or whatever the number would be.

Ahem... well, yes, the Club of Rome did these things, and published the iconic "The Limits of Growth", which ran so against the orthodoxy of modern business that it was demonized to no end, and the "Club for Growth" (funder of Noelle, btw) type of groups sprang up to belittle the ecological evaluation of Homo sapiens.

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:25:22am

re: #81 Obdicut

To put it another way: If we don't actually start doing things in a sustainable way, the number of supportable humans is very low, and for a quite limited amount of time.

Which is why billions of people must die as a result of unchecked climate change. They simply must. There will not be enough food for them.

Vicious Babushka Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:25:36am

re: #75 Charleston Chew

Ironically, according to his website, Jon McNaughton went to Brigham Young on a full tuition art scholarship. So he's okay with it raining other people's money on him.

He is the guy who did the Cthulu and zombies painting?

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:26:39am

re: #85 Alouette

He is the guy who did the Cthulu and zombies painting?

I don't think so... but from his little vid... it seems clear he works for Cthulu.

Daniel Ballard Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:26:52am

re: #79 LudwigVanQuixote

I meant the other way around-At a population of one billion, at current per capita emission rates and food/water consumption rates-Would the climate suffer? A half billion?

lawhawk Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:27:02am

re: #60 Charleston Chew

Not a GIV, but close:

Youtube Video

Interesting Times in Benghazi Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:27:44am

re: #85 Alouette

He is the guy who did the Cthulu and zombies painting?

He's the guy who did the original painting that inspired the Cthulu/zombies spoof.

bratwurst Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:28:11am

re: #82 Varek Raith

LOL.

Inevitable: Right-Wing Media Freak Out Over Nonexistent "ACORN" Tie To Occupy Wall Street

Some of the stories actually refer to ACORN as a defunct organization before alleging that they are pulling the strings. How can a defunct organization do ANYTHING?!?!

Killgore Trout Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:28:31am

re: #82 Varek Raith

LOL.

Inevitable: Right-Wing Media Freak Out Over Nonexistent "ACORN" Tie To Occupy Wall Street

One of breitbart's big sites has an article today exposing the long history of black communists collaborating with the soviet union to bring marxist revolts to the US.

Obdicut Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:29:06am

re: #91 Killgore Trout

One of breitbart's big sites has an article today exposing the long history of black communists collaborating with the soviet union to bring marxist revolts to the US.

Bircherism in a nutshell, basically.

Vicious Babushka Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:29:26am

re: #89 publicityStunted

He's the guy who did the original painting that inspired the Cthulu/zombies spoof.

The Cthulu/zombies painting totally rocked! The Jesus painting, not so much.

Neutral President Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:29:59am

re: #92 Obdicut

Bircherism in a nutshell, basically.

Oh noes! Brown people!!1!11ty

Big Steve Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:30:23am

re: #84 LudwigVanQuixote

Which is why billions of people must die as a result of unchecked climate change. They simply must. There will not be enough food for them.

So Lud....thought you would be interested in this....[Link: www.chron.com...] Rice University study, funded by Shell by the way, that is recommending abandonment of the west end of Galveston Island (yes in the Republic of Texas) due to rising seas and accelerated erosion. A little nerve racking for me in that I own a beach house there.

AK-47% Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:33:02am

Nobody seemed to be upset about the fact that Climategate involved hacked files which were selectively presented. Where was the outrage over that?

Neutral President Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:34:34am

re: #96 ralphieboy

Nobody seemed to be upset about the fact that Climategate involved hacked files which were selectively presented. Where was the outrage over that?

"Oh but this is different!"

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:34:45am

re: #87 Rightwingconspirator

I meant the other way around-At a population of one billion, at current per capita emission rates and food/water consumption rates-Would the climate suffer? A half billion?

Ohhh... well that is easy to answer.

If we cross a sulfur dioxide tipping point - something we are very much marching towards - the answer is zero vertebrate species could survive on such a planet. If we cross that point, it means the extinction of every higher species including us. And no, there won't be any domed cities at the poles either. The economy, industry and culture to build such a thing would have collapsed long before then.

If we don't cross that and just go to a five or six degree world, the oceans will still have been devastated, crops devastated, world wide dust bowls in former breadbasket regions. It is hard to say what can be done with genetically modified crops or last ditch Noah's ark attempts. But, in the end, less than one billion.

However, long before that point, people will have fought wars over the diminished resources and plagues will have ravaged population centers.

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:36:15am

re: #93 Alouette

The Cthulu/zombies painting totally rocked! The Jesus painting, not so much.

Yeah, but we don't know who the artist who spoofed him was.

100

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:36:18am

re: #40 LudwigVanQuixote

God forbid, they understand the grade school science that explains the basic effect.

Warmer water dumps more vapor into the atmosphere. A warmer atmosphere can hold more water vapor in suspension. When winter does come and that water vapor is hit by cold air, there is more of it to come down as either rain or snow.

Ironically, even with all that snow, it is still warmer over all.

I get that your friends are willfully ignorant and cherishing their little egos. They are also through their ignorance and support of candidates who will do nothing helping to kill themselves and you. Ignorance is not a defense in this case. I really am tired of protecting the feelings of the stupid, when their stupidity will get innocent people killed.

Not ill-educated either. Engineering and IT degrees.

Given that one of them lives

101

Killgore Trout Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:37:07am

re: #92 Obdicut

Bircherism in a nutshell, basically.

Sort of. It also ties into the theme of the video I linked to earlier. He's exploiting the wingnut fear that blacks are going to enslave white people. There are certainly far more radicals and communists involved in OWS than I care to associate with but there's no need to bring race into it.

102

freetoken Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:37:49am

re: #96 ralphieboy

Nobody seemed to be upset about the fact that Climategate involved hacked files which were selectively presented. Where was the outrage over that?

We've asked that many times here. Yet rarely outside of a few sites like LGF or some dedicated science blogs is this question presented.

I suspect because our society is enthralled with gossip columns and the innuendo-business that we don't blink an eye anymore at inappropriate and deceitful information-mongering.

103

Vicious Babushka Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:38:00am

re: #98 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohhh... well that is easy to answer.

If we cross a sulfur dioxide tipping point - something we are very much marching towards - the answer is zero vertebrate species could survive on such a planet. If we cross that point, it means the extinction of every higher species including us. And no, there won't be any domed cities at the poles either. The economy, industry and culture to build such a thing would have collapsed long before then.

If we don't cross that and just go to a five or six degree world, the oceans will still have been devastated, crops devastated, world wide dust bowls in former breadbasket regions. It is hard to say what can be done with genetically modified crops or last ditch Noah's ark attempts. But, in the end, less than one billion.

However, long before that point, people will have fought wars over the diminished resources and plagues will have ravaged population centers.

The reason they don't care is they believe that they will be Raptured before that happens and the rest of us unsaved, damned souls...just deserve it.

104

Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:38:38am

Apparently I am missing something in this McRib sandwich.

I shall continue to miss it, I suppose.

105

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:39:18am

re: #95 Big Steve

So Lud...thought you would be interested in this...[Link: www.chron.com...] Rice University study, funded by Shell by the way, that is recommending abandonment of the west end of Galveston Island (yes in the Republic of Texas) due to rising seas and accelerated erosion. A little nerve racking for me in that I own a beach house there.

I am very sorry about your beach house. There is no nice way to tell you this. It just is. It is doomed.

If it makes you feel any better, so is the entire city of Galveston at this rate.

106

Daniel Ballard Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:41:15am

re: #102 freetoken

Hacking is a rather fashionable activity. Just ask the young.

107

Interesting Times in Benghazi Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:42:20am

re: #105 LudwigVanQuixote

I am very sorry about your beach house. There is no nice way to tell you this. It just is. It is doomed. If it makes you feel any better, so is the entire city of Galveston at this rate.

More liberal lies. Magical Rick Perry made the sea rise go away!

108

Killgore Trout Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:43:10am

re: #104 EmmmieG

Apparently I am missing something in this McRib sandwich.

I shall continue to miss it, I suppose.

I tried one not too lang ago. The first bite tastes kinda good but it's really gross by the time you finish it. It's a pressed pork product using a technique called "mechanically reclaimed meat". You can search videos to see what's involved if you dare.

109

S'latch Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:44:48am

I haven't seen much Fox News for a very long time. Is "Noelle Nikpour" real or just a character portrayed by a comedienne?

110

Vicious Babushka Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:46:07am

re: #108 Killgore Trout

I tried one not too lang ago. The first bite tastes kinda good but it's really gross by the time you finish it. It's a pressed pork product using a technique called "mechanically reclaimed meat". You can search videos to see what's involved if you dare.

If they're going to go to all that trouble to make a synthetic, processed product why not go all out and offer a "McVegan Tofu" sandwich?

111

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:46:48am

re: #90 bratwurst

Some of the stories actually refer to ACORN as a defunct organization before alleging that they are pulling the strings. How can a defunct organization do ANYTHING?!?!

They're not actually defunct - it was faked. Sort of like the Templars.

112

jaunte Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:47:08am

re: #108 Killgore Trout

I tried one not too lang ago. The first bite tastes kinda good but it's really gross by the time you finish it. It's a pressed pork product using a technique called "mechanically reclaimed meat". You can search videos to see what's involved if you dare.

What are they 'reclaiming' it from?

113

CuriousLurker Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:47:19am

OT: Quran Burning Pastor Terry Jones Is Running For President

Sure, why not? ever other nutter in the country seems to have thrown their hat in the ring. *headdesk*

114

Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:47:47am

re: #108 Killgore Trout

I tried one not too lang ago. The first bite tastes kinda good but it's really gross by the time you finish it. It's a pressed pork product using a technique called "mechanically reclaimed meat". You can search videos to see what's involved if you dare.

I've got the feeling that we're talking "The Jungle."

115

freetoken Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:48:25am

re: #112 jaunte

What are they 'reclaiming' it from?

From the pig, of course.

116

Gus Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:48:31am

re: #112 jaunte

What are they 'reclaiming' it from?

Whatever they scrape up with the front-end loader in the slaughter house.

117

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:48:35am

re: #110 Alouette

If they're going to go to all that trouble to make a synthetic, processed product why not go all out and offer a "McVegan Tofu" sandwich?

Ok... McVegan is easily an abomination on the order of McOysters.

Though, soon there will have to be mostly soy in cheap burgers anyway.

And speaking of things that climate will hit soon, very soon that will piss me off to no end, coffee and chocolate are going to sky-rocket in price because we are severely impacting the places where those crops grow.

118

Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:49:31am

re: #117 LudwigVanQuixote

Ok... McVegan is easily an abomination on the order of McOysters.

Though, soon there will have to be mostly soy in cheap burgers anyway.

And speaking of things that climate will hit soon, very soon that will piss me off to no end, coffee and chocolate are going to sky-rocket in price because we are severely impacting the places where those crops grow.

This would be very ironic, because replacing a lot of the beef in a burger with soy would actually be quite good for people.

119

Neutral President Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:49:49am

re: #104 EmmmieG

Apparently I am missing something in this McRib sandwich.

I shall continue to miss it, I suppose.

Meat? I'm pretty sure whatever a McRib is made of, is grown in a lab somewhere.

120

The Ghost of a Benghazi Flea Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:49:58am

re: #112 jaunte

What are they 'reclaiming' it from?

It's the meat sticking on the bones after you take off the big cuts.

121

lawhawk Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:50:04am

re: #113 CuriousLurker

Obvious question, but President of what?

He wants to outdo the President from Escape from LA?

Sheesh. And you know what? He might actually outpoll Bachmann and Santorum with no effort.

122

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:50:45am

re: #119 ArchangelMichael

Meat? I'm pretty sure whatever a McRib is made of, is grown in a lab somewhere.

Does make you wonder if it's actually the "Mc" version of soylent green...
//

123

freetoken Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:50:51am

re: #117 LudwigVanQuixote

And speaking of things that climate will hit soon, very soon that will piss me off to no end, coffee and chocolate are going to sky-rocket in price because we are severely impacting the places where those crops grow.

Well, let's face it, the only way mere mortals such as you and I can afford chocolate is that we depend on super-cheap third world labor to do the work for us. The Cacao plant fruit can only be harvested by hand (machines damage the delicate bark, as the fruit is borne close to the bark) and the seed extraction is also done by hand, the drying in open air also.

124

jaunte Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:51:18am

re: #116 Gus 802

Living on the edge:

...USDA rules became effective November 4, 1996, and were later updated, stressing:
Due to FSIS regulations enacted in 2004 to protect consumers against Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy, mechanically separated beef is considered inedible and is prohibited for use as human food. It is not permitted in hot dogs or any other processed product.[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

125

Neutral President Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:52:34am

re: #122 oaktree

Does make you wonder if it's actually the "Mc" version of soylent green...
//

McRib ist Menschenfleisch!

126

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:53:07am

re: #118 EmmmieG

This would be very ironic, because replacing a lot of the beef in a burger with soy would actually be quite good for people.

Ironic indeed. Energy is always conserved. And it will work for a few decades until our soy crops fail also.

127

CuriousLurker Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:53:48am

re: #121 lawhawk

Obvious question, but President of what?

He wants to outdo the President from Escape from LA?

Sheesh. And you know what? He might actually outpoll Bachmann and Santorum with no effort.

LOL, that he might.

In other good news, it seems like Palin's 15 minutes are finally over:

@SarahPalinUSA Sarah Palin
The documentary "The Undefeated" is on sale at Walmart in a special package deal with "Going Rogue." fb.me/1kD50s7Nl

128

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:55:00am

re: #123 freetoken

Well, let's face it, the only way mere mortals such as you and I can afford chocolate is that we depend on super-cheap third world labor to do the work for us. The Cacao plant fruit can only be harvested by hand (machines damage the delicate bark, as the fruit is borne close to the bark) and the seed extraction is also done by hand, the drying in open air also.

Truth. I would not be opposed to paying more for good chocolate that I knew was picked by people who got a fair wage. But as it is, that soon won't even be on the table to debate. I am much more upset about coffee shortages.

129

CuriousLurker Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:56:13am

Congrats on the 2nd promoted page this week, pS!

130

lawhawk Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:56:39am

Cain's latest inanity: I don't need to know foreign policy details.

Me: You don't need to be anywhere near the Football or the WH.

“Relative to foreign policy, I don’t need to know the details of every one of the issues we face.
"We’ve got plenty of experts who can fill in the details,” Cain said at dinner held by the Nueces County Republican Women.
The former Godfather’s Pizza CEO told the 900 supporters in attendance that the key to dealing with issues abroad is to develop a clear foreign-policy philosophy, a line he often has repeated on the trail.
That philosophy: clarify who the United States'- friends and enemies are – something Cain says President Obama has failed to do.

Right, how can you make an informed decision when you don't have a clue to begin with? What kind of steep learning curve are you setting yourself up for when you have no clue - and no one is going to press you on this.

Oh, and your pizza sucked.

131

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 11:59:18am

There is one other thing about this that most people are too stupid too get. Once it hits, there is no easy fix and no way to quickly turn it around again.

We have already purchased a very hard future for the next several centuries even if we stopped polluting today. Climate will continue to get worse for the next century no matter what because of what we have already put up there. But there is a major difference between that and where we are headed right now - because we didn't stop polluting. Very hard can be borne. The horrors of where this bottoms out - and will stay for centuries - on our present course are a new dark ages.

132

Interesting Times in Benghazi Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:01:02pm

re: #130 lawhawk

Cain's latest inanity: I don't need to know foreign policy details.
...
Oh, and your pizza sucked.

So I was right ;)

133

Vicious Babushka Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:01:30pm

re: #131 LudwigVanQuixote

There is one other thing about this that most people are too stupid too get. Once it hits, there is no easy fix and no way to quickly turn it around again.

We have already purchased a very hard future for the next several centuries even if we stopped polluting today. Climate will continue to get worse for the next century no matter what because of what we have already put up there. But there is a major difference between that and where we are headed right now - because we didn't stop polluting. Very hard can be borne. The horrors of where this bottoms out - and will stay for centuries - on our present course are a new dark ages.

You think the human race will last for another few centuries? You optimist, you.

134

Charleston Chew Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:01:51pm

re: #91 Killgore Trout

One of breitbart's big sites has an article today exposing the long history of black communists collaborating with the soviet union to bring marxist revolts to the US.

Anyone with any sense of history (so of course that eliminates Breitbart) has to recognize 2 things:

1.) The Stalinist Soviet Union was evil.

2.) Communists were the only political party in America that said that black people (and women) are... you know.... actual people with the same rights as white dudes.

Black people of that time had to weigh the pros and cons of rock versus hard place.

135

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:03:15pm

re: #133 Alouette

You think the human race will last for another few centuries? You optimist, you.

LC says it best I think.

You don't know me from the wind
you never will, you never did
I'm the little Jew
who wrote the Bible
I've seen the nations rise and fall
I've heard their stories, heard them all
but love's the only engine of survival
Your servant here, he has been told
to say it clear, to say it cold:
It's over,
it ain't going any further
And now the wheels of heaven stop
you feel the devil's riding crop
Get ready for the future:
it is murder

136

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:03:31pm

re: #130 lawhawk

Cain's latest inanity: I don't need to know foreign policy details.

Me: You don't need to be anywhere near the Football or the WH.

Right, how can you make an informed decision when you don't have a clue to begin with? What kind of steep learning curve are you setting yourself up for when you have no clue - and no one is going to press you on this.

Oh, and your pizza sucked.

That should make him a darling of the GOP establishment though. Get him a hawkish VP and SoD to actually run things and let him be the figurehead that can sit there and play target for the flack.

Hmm, that approach sounds familiar...

137

Interesting Times in Benghazi Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:05:22pm

re: #131 LudwigVanQuixote

Very hard can be borne. The horrors of where this bottoms out - and will stay for centuries - on our present course are a new dark ages.

And isn't it true that, if humanity is plunged into that new dark ages, we can never climb out of it? After all, the only reason we had the iron age, bronze age, etc was because the stuff was around and easy to mine. Now, all the easy-to-get raw materials have been used up. Without high-tech and heavy machinery, there's no way to get more...

138

wrenchwench Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:05:35pm

re: #130 lawhawk

Cain said at dinner held by the Nueces County Republican Women.

Nueces = Nuts.

139

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:06:24pm

re: #6 freetoken

I see that on Twitter Noelle Nikpour seems to have enjoyed her time at the Daily Show.

Does she realize how skewered she and her opinions were by Mandvi?

She is much too dumb for that.

140

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:07:41pm

re: #130 lawhawk

Cain's latest inanity: I don't need to know foreign policy details.

Me: You don't need to be anywhere near the Football or the WH.

Right, how can you make an informed decision when you don't have a clue to begin with? What kind of steep learning curve are you setting yourself up for when you have no clue - and no one is going to press you on this.

Oh, and your pizza sucked.

Did you see my page about Cain, and his dirty business history and Koch connections?

141

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:07:52pm

re: #137 publicityStunted

And isn't it true that, if humanity is plunged into that new dark ages, we can never climb out of it? After all, the only reason we had the iron age, bronze age, etc was because the stuff was around and easy to mine. Now, all the easy-to-get raw materials have been used up. Without high-tech and heavy machinery, there's no way to get more...

Thus all the post-Apocalypse SF stories with the civilizations chipping rebar out of old reinforced concrete in order to get metal.

142

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:08:43pm

re: #137 publicityStunted

And isn't it true that, if humanity is plunged into that new dark ages, we can never climb out of it? After all, the only reason we had the iron age, bronze age, etc was because the stuff was around and easy to mine. Now, all the easy-to-get raw materials have been used up. Without high-tech and heavy machinery, there's no way to get more...

I don't know about that. There will be a ton of metal lying around on the surface, that we already mined, for some time.

143

Vicious Babushka Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:10:33pm

The Politics of Chocolate

144

Neutral President Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:10:58pm

re: #142 LudwigVanQuixote

I don't know about that. There will be a ton of metal lying around on the surface, that we already mined, for some time.

Living off the corpse of the old world.

145

aagcobb Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:11:11pm

re: #130 lawhawk

Cain's latest inanity: I don't need to know foreign policy details.

Me: You don't need to be anywhere near the Football or the WH.

Right, how can you make an informed decision when you don't have a clue to begin with? What kind of steep learning curve are you setting yourself up for when you have no clue - and no one is going to press you on this.

Oh, and your pizza sucked.

On Nate Silver's fivethirtyeight blog he discussed how Herman Cain is an outlier in that he is tied with Romney at the top of the polls but other factors top presidential candidates usually have, like endorsements and raising lots of money, are missing, and he wondered if there is something unusual in the GOP race this year. It hit me that there is, and its the Tea Party. Last year, the Tea Party rejected establishment Republicans like Mike Castle and Lisa Murkowski for outsiders like O'Donnell, Angle and Joe Miller, so its not surprising that the Tea Party is backing a rough-around-the-edges outsider like Cain over a slick establishment politician like Romney. Fox News recent poll showed Cain has 32% of the Tea Party vote compared to only 8% for Romney. Considering the people nominted by the GOP last year, don't be surprised if Cain upsets Romney or comes very close to it.

146

Interesting Times in Benghazi Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:12:06pm

re: #142 LudwigVanQuixote

I don't know about that. There will be a ton of metal lying around on the surface, that we already mined, for some time.

True. Landfill mining might be a new growth industry, as well :/

Oh, getting back to the subject of food security, did you know that Joe Romm of ClimateProgress had a paper published in Nature? Unfortunately it's behind the subscriber wall, but you have access, correct?

147

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:13:29pm

re: #144 ArchangelMichael

Living off the corpse of the old world.

That's what the last dark ages were. This is for real. If we do not change course, our civilization will collapse and billions will die horribly. The creativity and successes of generations will be spat out and wasted, reduced to ruin.

This is like the book of Jeremiah. It is that bad.

And we carry on, like slow witted children playing on a beach in the path of a tsunami.

148

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:14:02pm

re: #146 publicityStunted

True. Landfill mining might be a new growth industry, as well :/

Oh, getting back to the subject of food security, did you know that Joe Romm of ClimateProgress had a paper published in Nature? Unfortunately it's behind the subscriber wall, but you have access, correct?

Yeah sure... I'll check it out for you if you want.

149

HappyBenghazi Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:14:08pm

re: #130 lawhawk

Cain's latest inanity: I don't need to know foreign policy details.

Me: You don't need to be anywhere near the Football or the WH.

Right, how can you make an informed decision when you don't have a clue to begin with? What kind of steep learning curve are you setting yourself up for when you have no clue - and no one is going to press you on this.

Oh, and your pizza sucked.

What a joke. Herman, no one expects you to be an expert but for the love of god, at least try to learn about the world around you.

150

freetoken Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:14:38pm

re: #137 publicityStunted

And isn't it true that, if humanity is plunged into that new dark ages, we can never climb out of it? After all, the only reason we had the iron age, bronze age, etc was because the stuff was around and easy to mine.

Many historians, when reconstructing the past, refer to a civilization collapse that is not often heard of in the wider public - the Bronze Age Collapse.

While there are differences of opinion on the extent and cause of said collapse, the reality is that our world system, "civilization", did change from it. E.g., the origin of the ancestral religion to Judaism stemmed from the collapse of Bronze Age Canaanite city-states.

It is unlikely that we are will be able to control our future to the level of detail to expect and manage the next similar "collapse", though I will point out here that Homo genus has been roaming this planet for a couple of million years, and that we've been modifying our environment during this time (and likely are the direct or indirect cause of the many extinctions the past million years.)

Humans will continue, but what we cherish: freedoms, idealism, modernity - those could go away.

151

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:15:14pm

re: #149 HappyWarrior

What a joke. Herman, no one expects you to be an expert but for the love of god, at least try to learn around you.

I love his Herminator's thinkers corps [sic].

They are such little boys with such fragile egos in addition to being stupid.

152

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:15:21pm

re: #144 ArchangelMichael

Living off the corpse of the old world.

That sounds a bit Nordic...

153

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:16:05pm

re: #150 freetoken

Many historians, when reconstructing the past, refer to a civilization collapse that is not often heard of in the wider public - the Bronze Age Collapse.

While there are differences of opinion on the extent and cause of said collapse, the reality is that our world system, "civilization", did change from it. E.g., the origin of the ancestral religion to Judaism stemmed from the collapse of Bronze Age Canaanite city-states.

It is unlikely that we are will be able to control our future to the level of detail to expect and manage the next similar "collapse", though I will point out here that Homo genus has been roaming this planet for a couple of million years, and that we've been modifying our environment during this time (and likely are the direct or indirect cause of the many extinctions the past million years.)

Humans will continue, but what we cherish: freedoms, idealism, modernity - those could go away.

Youtube Video

154

Simply Sarah Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:16:29pm

I have to say, LVQ, that I hope you're terribly, terribly wrong about all this. I say that because if you're not, well, I fear civilization, if not humanity in general, is already doomed. It just seems impossible that humanity, as we currently stand, will be able to get past its collective short sightedness soon enough to stop a worst case situation from occurring.

155

Robert O. Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:18:57pm

This is absolutely brilliant! The Daily Show does it again! I love Aasif Mandvi's skit.

By the way, does anyone know about TDS interviews? Do the interviewees get a script of what to say, how to respond? The woman got skewered so badly it almost looks contrived. I remember watching a segment about Canadian asbestos. I am just wondering if TDS told the people they interview to play along. I don't doubt people like Noelle Nikpour exist and are stupid. But that she sat through all that, not realizing how badly she was being played, especially with the surgery part, well....

156

HappyBenghazi Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:20:05pm

re: #151 LudwigVanQuixote

I love his Herminator's thinkers corps [sic].

They are such little boys with such fragile egos in addition to being stupid.

Ha yeah. I am amazed he's doing as well as he is honestly. I've asked Repubicans I know about 9-9-9 and they're just as dumbfounded as I am. 9% national sales tax on top of state sales tax? I've actually argued this one from a business mindset. I think that would be terrible for businesses.

157

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:20:41pm

re: #154 Simply Sarah

I have to say, LVQ, that I hope you're terribly, terribly wrong about all this. I say that because if you're not, well, I fear civilization, if not humanity in general, is already doomed. It just seems impossible that humanity, as we currently stand, will be able to get past its collective short sightedness soon enough to stop a worst case situation from occurring.

We have about ten years to start taking real action. If we do we can limit the world to three or four degrees in the coming centuries. It will be a hard life, but not one that collapses everything.

If we wait 20 or 30 years to take serious action, and our present emission rates keep going as they are, then we are doomed as a civilization. Game over. Done. Doomed. End of America and Western Civilization as we know it. Billions dead. New dark ages. Done. Starving bandits will prey on the weak who scrabble in the blasted ruins of the past.

158

engineer cat Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:24:09pm

My Report From Occupy Oakland

i went down and attended OO from about 9pm to 12:30 am last night

when i got down there the park was full of people and a meeting was in progress. i didn't see any signs of anything that looked like a permanent encampment

there were about 500 people actively participating in the meeting. the traditions are of course by now firmly entrenched. even though they had a pa system, if you want to address the crowd you try and get their attention by shouting "Mike Check! Mike Check!" if the crowd starts to echo your words you are on

the meeting was mostly heartfelt speeches about economic and social justice, and then a move to get the crowd to vote on a general strike. the people in my immediate vicinity had their doubts about the effectiveness of this "general strike", since the people promoting it talked about how the unemployed people there would "strike" (???), but they would understand if people with jobs didn't participate and wouldn't consider them to be scabs. my feeling is that nothing remotely resembling a strike will result from this vote and that it was mostly an ego trip on the part of the speakers and a civics lesson for the rest. the vote was structured as requiring 90% approval, based on a detailed counting of thumbs (up, sideways for 'no vote', down) of the crowd

then the meeting broke up, music was put on, and it turned into a giant party

then the marching started. a rolling amplifier was at the front playing dance music. the crowd marched and danced down broadway for ten or fifteen blocks. at that point the police showed up in force dressed in riot gear. the crowd tensed for a confrontation and cries of "Mike Check!" went up. the decision was to march to san francisco and join the others, although many of us began to wonder why anybody thought it would be practical to walk from downtown oakland to downtown sf

in any case, the crowd of 1 thousand or so marched around more or less aimlessly for a couple of hours "Whose Streets? OUR Streets!", with small detachments of motorcycle cops watching warily from no closer than two blocks away. when the march headed down one street seeming to aim directly at the cops, the cops moved back. the crowd was cheerful and in a party mood and not too keen on the idea of carrying out the plan to walk across the bay bridge. the crowd seemed less inclined to make trouble or be violent than a frat party at the UC

finally we ended up circling back to the park where the call went up if anybody else wanted to make any speeches, and finally music was put back on and dancing and random partying became again the order of the evening

conclusion: anybody looking for serious social disruption or revolutionary activity from this crowd is way off the mark. i suspected that the folks promoting the general strike might have been members of one of these parasitic doctrinaire marxist groups, but if they were they were keeping it completely under wraps. there was no 'revolutionary' or marxist propoganda of any kind to be found anywhere

what is happening here IMHO is that crowds of kids in their 20s are getting together to make speeches to each other about social and economic justice, and to party. they are finding that there is a widespread nationwide bond of young folks of all races and types who feel the same about the lack of opportunity and unfairness in american society, and they are having a really fun time getting together, discussing it, and then dancing, marching, chanting anodyne and repetitive slogans about "We Are The 99%", and generally partying and bonding. it was really fun

what can be accomplished by sit ins and marches? it has certainly attracted worldwide media attention and focused attention to some issues, and, the point has been made that young people all over the united states are not apathetic or right wing. the point has been made, it's really fun, and eventually it will end in a large, peaceful march

159

aagcobb Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:24:22pm

re: #157 LudwigVanQuixote

We have about ten years to start taking real action. If we do we can limit the world to three or four degrees in the coming centuries. It will be a hard life, but not one that collapses everything.

If we wait 20 or 30 years to take serious action, and our present emission rates keep going as they are, then we are doomed as a civilization. Game over. Done. Doomed. End of America and Western Civilization as we know it. Billions dead. New dark ages. Done. Starving bandits will prey on the weak who scrabble in the blasted ruins of the past.

On the bright side, it only took Europe about a millenia to recover from the collapse of the Roman Empire./

160

Simply Sarah Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:27:57pm

re: #157 LudwigVanQuixote

We have about ten years to start taking real action. If we do we can limit the world to three or four degrees in the coming centuries. It will be a hard life, but not one that collapses everything.

If we wait 20 or 30 years to take serious action, and our present emission rates keep going as they are, then we are doomed as a civilization. Game over. Done. Doomed. End of America and Western Civilization as we know it. Billions dead. New dark ages. Done. Starving bandits will prey on the weak who scrabble in the blasted ruins of the past.

I'm not really optimistic. We are, for the most part, utterly terrible at evaluating future risk, especially when it seems abstract and distant. Especially with how successful anti-science propaganda has been in the U.S., as well as other parts of the world, and the fact that people don't want to give up luxuries or goodies they have now (Or want to get) in order to protect the planet from a 'future' threat that they can easily refuse to see.

Sure, once things get bad, most people will want to do something, but it'll be way too late by then.

161

engineer cat Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:28:56pm

re: #150 freetoken

Many historians, when reconstructing the past, refer to a civilization collapse that is not often heard of in the wider public - the Bronze Age Collapse.

well, the bronze age collapse, which led to what are called the 'archaic greek dark ages', seems to have been caused by the invention of iron working technology

the iron weapons were much more effective than bronze, and were wielded by relatively barbarian groups. the era from 1 thousand BC to the time of christ is conventionally called 'the iron age'

but i endorse the point that freetoken was making...

162

garhighway Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:33:10pm

Afternoon, all. It's a rainy dreary day here in NYC.

So I looked at the Aasif Mandvi piece. I have two thoughts about Ms. Nikpour.

1> She clearly does not understand how badly she comes across in the video.
2> She's hot.

Does that make me a bad person?

163

Kragar Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:35:27pm

David Barton on how to determine the historical accuracy of a book

164

Interesting Times in Benghazi Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:36:25pm

re: #161 engineer dog

the iron weapons were much more effective than bronze, and were wielded by relatively barbarian groups.

...and here we have the most unpredictable game-changer: a new, "weaponizable" technology to be developed, most likely based on nanotech. Whoever succeeds in developing this device will rule what's left of the world.

Think of what would happen if either of the following could be deployed:

1) genetically-engineered virus that renders anyone who hasn't been immunized sterile
2) genetically-engineered virus that simply kills the non-immunized

Any nation with such a technology would gladly use it to preserve a semblance of a good life for itself.

165

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:37:02pm

re: #160 Simply Sarah

I'm not really optimistic. We are, for the most part, utterly terrible at evaluating future risk, especially when it seems abstract and distant. Especially with how successful anti-science propaganda has been in the U.S., as well as other parts of the world, and the fact that people don't want to give up luxuries or goodies they have now (Or want to get) in order to protect the planet from a 'future' threat that they can easily refuse to see.

Sure, once things get bad, most people will want to do something, but it'll be way too late by then.

That of course, is my nightmare, and the nightmare of most of my colleagues. Everyday, we look at the data and the numbers on this and it gets worse and worse and worse. There is no happy outcome from business as usual.

I mostly blame Fox, and Koch funded propaganda for setting back awareness of this problem by 20 years.

Afterall, it was Thatcher who was the first major politician to address the issue back in 1989.

But, no matter what the lies of the propagandists we have exactly one one chance to fix this and start fixing it now. Failure is not an option. Look at it like Han taking the Millennium Falcon into that asteroid belt. Don't tell me the odds, because whatever they are, they are what we have and that is it.

Get aware. Fight hard.

166

Simply Sarah Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:37:56pm

re: #161 engineer dog

well, the bronze age collapse, which led to what are called the 'archaic greek dark ages', seems to have been caused by the invention of iron working technology

the iron weapons were much more effective than bronze, and were wielded by relatively barbarian groups. the era from 1 thousand BC to the time of christ is conventionally called 'the iron age'

but i endorse the point that freetoken was making...

Really? It was my understanding that bronze was in many ways superior to iron for tools and weapons (Whereas steel is superior to bronze). I thought the switch to iron was largely due to limits in the ability to make bronze thanks to a lack of either copper or tin (I forget). Granted, I may be confusing a hypothesis I heard somewhere for a commonly accepted historical theory.

167

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:38:15pm

re: #164 publicityStunted

...and here we have the most unpredictable game-changer: a new, "weaponizable" technology to be developed, most likely based on nanotech. Whoever succeeds in developing this device will rule what's left of the world.

Think of what would happen if either of the following could be deployed:

1) genetically-engineered virus that renders anyone who hasn't been immunized sterile
2) genetically-engineered virus that simply kills the non-immunized

Any nation with such a technology would gladly use it to preserve a semblance of a good life for itself.

Or just use nukes.

168

Killgore Trout Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:38:28pm

re: #158 engineer dog

Thanks for sharing your experience. I see this as an extension of the Bush era antiwar marches. They were large, peaceful and lasted a long time. In the end they accomplished nothing. The OWS thing will probably die down over the winter and it might revive in the spring. These marches will always be around in one form or the other, the left loves marches and rallies so there really doesn't need to be a purpose for them.

169

lawhawk Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:38:56pm

re: #163 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Not quite triple facepalm territory, but close.

Clearly a double facepalm:
Image: doublefacepalm.jpg

170

aagcobb Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:39:45pm

re: #167 LudwigVanQuixote

Or just use nukes.

And the nuclear winter could provide an antidote for global warming!/

171

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:40:06pm

re: #166 Simply Sarah

Really? It was my understanding that bronze was in many ways superior to iron for tools and weapons (Whereas steel is superior to bronze). I thought the switch to iron was largely due to limits in the ability to make bronze thanks to a lack of either copper or tin (I forget). Granted, I may be confusing a hypothesis I heard somewhere for a commonly accepted historical theory.

Respectfully, iron swords and armor defeat bronze swords and armor any day - if only because you can make a longer and sharper iron blade that won't shatter, and iron armor is harder to penetrate.

172

Interesting Times in Benghazi Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:40:06pm

re: #167 LudwigVanQuixote

Or just use nukes.

No, because that would irradiate and poison potentially usable land and water. The ultimate super-weapon is one that kills people en masse without harming anything else.

173

Vicious Babushka Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:40:50pm

re: #165 LudwigVanQuixote

That of course, is my nightmare, and the nightmare of most of my colleagues. Everyday, we look at the data and the numbers on this and it gets worse and worse and worse. There is no happy outcome from business as usual.

I mostly blame Fox, and Koch funded propaganda for setting back awareness of this problem by 20 years.

Afterall, it was Thatcher who was the first major politician to address the issue back in 1989.

But, no matter what the lies of the propagandists we have exactly one one chance to fix this and start fixing it now. Failure is not an option. Look at it like Han taking the Millennium Falcon into that asteroid belt. Don't tell me the odds, because whatever they are, they are what we have and that is it.

Get aware. Fight hard.

Can you re-post your list of what ordinary folks like us (who are not the Koch's) can do to actually cause change?

I drive a more fuel efficient vehicle now. Maybe in a couple of years I will trade it in for a hybrid or an electric.

174

Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:41:06pm

re: #172 publicityStunted

No, because that would irradiate and poison potentially usable land and water. The ultimate super-weapon is one that kills people en masse without harming anything else.

The Black Plague, you mean?

175

HappyBenghazi Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:41:24pm

re: #163 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

David Barton on how to determine the historical accuracy of a book

And this guy has impact on educating children why?

176

Simply Sarah Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:42:27pm

re: #171 LudwigVanQuixote

Respectfully, iron swords and armor defeat bronze swords and armor any day - if only because you can make a longer and sharper iron blade that won't shatter, and iron armor is harder to penetrate.

Well, as I said, I'm doing that dangerous thing of repeating something I'm not really clear on that I became aware of through a source I cannot remember. So I may be completely off base here!

177

Kragar Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:43:03pm

re: #172 publicityStunted

No, because that would irradiate and poison potentially usable land and water. The ultimate super-weapon is one that kills people en masse without harming anything else.

Neutron bomb

Neutron bombs are purposely designed with explosive yields lower than other nuclear weapons.[citation needed] This is because neutrons are absorbed by air, so a high-yield neutron bomb is not able to radiate neutrons beyond its blast range and so would have no destructive advantage over a normal hydrogen bomb. This intense pulse of high-energy neutrons is intended as the principal killing mechanism, not the fallout, heat or blast. Although neutron bombs are commonly believed to "leave the infrastructure intact", current designs have explosive yields in the kiloton range,[20] the detonation of which would cause considerable destruction through blast and heat effects.

178

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:44:09pm

re: #163 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

David Barton on how to determine the historical accuracy of a book

From your post...

Barton Said...

I hold a standard that if a book is printed 1900, it is probably one hundred percent accurate because there are not agendas. If it’s printed from 1920-1940, I’ll buy into maybe seventy-five percent of it. If it’s printed from, 1940-1960, I’ll buy into about fifty percent of it. If it’s printed from 1960s on, I’ll buy into maybe a forth of it; I have that much doubt about books that are written more recently because they reflect agendas, they reflect bad education, they reflect bad stuff.

So let's see here. In 1900 there were no agendas? There were no books on social Darwinism, the "white man's burden" or promoting the rights of companies to use child labor?

Of course, I suppose Barton is into those sorts of things anyway.. so that is good think...

On the flip side, I wonder what he would do with the fact that Newton, Darwin and Galileo all published well before 1900...

179

aagcobb Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:44:16pm

re: #175 HappyWarrior

And this guy has impact on educating children why?

Because he tells a lot of people what they want to hear.

180

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:44:28pm

re: #173 Alouette

Can you re-post your list of what ordinary folks like us (who are not the Koch's) can do to actually cause change?

I drive a more fuel efficient vehicle now. Maybe in a couple of years I will trade it in for a hybrid or an electric.

Sure.

181

Kragar Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:46:00pm

re: #178 LudwigVanQuixote

From your post...

Barton Said...

So let's see here. In 1900 there were no agendas? There were no books on social Darwinism, the "white man's burden" or promoting the rights of companies to use child labor?

Of course, I suppose Barton is into those sorts of things anyway.. so that is good think...

On the flip side, I wonder what he would do with the fact that Newton, Darwin and Galileo all published well before 1900...

Well, the Bible was published in 1 AD! That means its super accurate. Thats science.

182

lawhawk Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:46:42pm

re: #178 LudwigVanQuixote

I was going to say that - but then Barton would counter that the Bible is older, and therefore correct. It's the bible exemption/reserve clause.

In Barton's view - if the bible has something to say about it, it trumps whatever science has verified as fact.

183

Kragar Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:47:21pm

re: #182 lawhawk

I was going to say that - but then Barton would counter that the Bible is older, and therefore correct. It's the bible exemption/reserve clause.

In Barton's view - if the bible has something to say about it, it trumps whatever science has verified as fact.

If the Bible didn't cover it, its a liberal commie plot.

184

Neutral President Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:48:22pm

re: #181 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, the Bible was published in 1 AD! That means its super accurate. Thats science.

And it was in Baby Jesus' proper language. English.

185

lawhawk Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:49:51pm

re: #183 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Scientists: DNA
Barton: Bible!

Scientists: Evolution
Barton: Creation. Bible!

Scientists: Earth's billions and billions of years old
Barton: 6000 years, Bible!

Scientists: Sexual reproduction/intercourse
Barton: Adam's Rib! Bible! Wait, what?

186

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:49:58pm

re: #178 LudwigVanQuixote

From your post...

Barton Said...

So let's see here. In 1900 there were no agendas? There were no books on social Darwinism, the "white man's burden" or promoting the rights of companies to use child labor?

Of course, I suppose Barton is into those sorts of things anyway.. so that is good think...

On the flip side, I wonder what he would do with the fact that Newton, Darwin and Galileo all published well before 1900...

But the Bible is older still, and thus infallible!
/
(Which would make the Torah...)

187

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:50:36pm

Gah. Brilliant clips, but anti-science conservative fucks make me sick.

188

engineer cat Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:51:50pm

re: #166 Simply Sarah

Really? It was my understanding that bronze was in many ways superior to iron for tools and weapons (Whereas steel is superior to bronze). I thought the switch to iron was largely due to limits in the ability to make bronze thanks to a lack of either copper or tin (I forget). Granted, I may be confusing a hypothesis I heard somewhere for a commonly accepted historical theory.

they managed to make steel early on, simply because they didn't realize that carbon and other impurities were in the metal they were making, so the weapons they made were definitely superior to the bronze armaments, which immediately disappeared

iron requires a much higher melting temperature than copper or tin, so the switch to iron/steel required an advance in smelting technology

a very similar thing happened two thousand years later, when technology was invented in china that was capable of developing high enough temperatures to distill beer and wine into hard liquor :-)

189

Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:52:37pm

re: #188 engineer dog

they managed to make steel early on, simply because they didn't realize that carbon and other impurities were in the metal they were making, so the weapons they made were definitely superior to the bronze armaments, which immediately disappeared

iron requires a much higher melting temperature than copper or tin, so the switch to iron/steel required an advance in smelting technology

a very similar thing happened two thousand years later, when technology was invented in china that was capable of developing high enough temperatures to distill beer and wine into hard liquor :-)

Steel was the nuclear secret of its time.

190

Neutral President Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:55:48pm

re: #188 engineer dog

iron requires a much higher melting temperature than copper or tin, so the switch to iron/steel required an advance in smelting technology

They didn't actually smelt iron/steel until the 1800s AFAIK. Before that it was heated up to make it softer and then just hit with a hammer until it was in the shape of what was needed. There was no way a wood or coal fire could get hot enough to melt it.

191

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:57:42pm

re: #173 Alouette

Ohh this is cute....

In the course of looking for the list on my old posts, I discovered that many of my older posts have been visited by stalker types. Things that had been either neutrally received (at the time) or just posts of science papers from journals like Science or Nature got a flood of sock puppet strikes.

Ohh those stalkers...

Dinging down a post I made two years ago....

You sure got me! I guess that means the data in those papers isn't real!

192

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:58:34pm

re: #182 lawhawk

I was going to say that - but then Barton would counter that the Bible is older, and therefore correct. It's the bible exemption/reserve clause.

In Barton's view - if the bible has something to say about it, it trumps whatever science has verified as fact.

Ok... the code of Hammurabi is older than the Bible... It's not a particularly strong argument...

193

Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:59:09pm

re: #192 LudwigVanQuixote

Ok... the code of Hammurabi is older than the Bible... It's not a particularly strong argument...

Gilgamesh is therefore nonfiction, as well as Beowulf.

194

engineer cat Thu, Oct 27, 2011 12:59:14pm

re: #190 ArchangelMichael

They didn't actually smelt iron/steel until the 1800s AFAIK. Before that it was heated up to make it softer and then just hit with a hammer until it was in the shape of what was needed. There was no way a wood or coal fire could get hot enough to melt it.

not so (check wiksterpedia) - what was invented in the 1800s were highly efficient ways to make steel such as the bessemer process

195

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Thu, Oct 27, 2011 1:01:06pm

re: #155 Robert O.

This is absolutely brilliant! The Daily Show does it again! I love Aasif Mandvi's skit.

By the way, does anyone know about TDS interviews? Do the interviewees get a script of what to say, how to respond? The woman got skewered so badly it almost looks contrived. I remember watching a segment about Canadian asbestos. I am just wondering if TDS told the people they interview to play along. I don't doubt people like Noelle Nikpour exist and are stupid. But that she sat through all that, not realizing how badly she was being played, especially with the surgery part, well...

From what I can gather, TDS probably cuts and slices interviews to make them funnier. I mean the answers do not necessarily match the real questions. IMHO, these should not be considered to be "serious", bona fide interviews. It happened to Bosch Fawstin, who wrote this post about his experience. And before you say that Fawstin is a racist fascistic fuck, yeah, but I believe what he wrote in this instance, since he doesn't seem to be pissed about this, and, well, I just don't see why I should assume that he is lying here.

196

brennant Thu, Oct 27, 2011 1:01:56pm

re: #189 EmmmieG

Steel was the nuclear secret of its time.

If I die, I have to go before him, and he will ask me, "What is the riddle of steel?" If I don't know it, he will cast me out of Valhalla and laugh at me. That's Crom, strong on his mountain!

197

Kragar Thu, Oct 27, 2011 1:02:21pm

re: #189 EmmmieG

Steel was the nuclear secret of its time.

Crossbows, so evil you couldn't use them on Christians.

198

goddamnedfrank Thu, Oct 27, 2011 1:04:38pm

re: #172 publicityStunted

No, because that would irradiate and poison potentially usable land and water. The ultimate super-weapon is one that kills people en masse without harming anything else.

Vogon poetry.

199

Kragar Thu, Oct 27, 2011 1:06:31pm

re: #198 goddamnedfrank

Vogon poetry.

Justin Bieber and Rebecca Black duets.

200

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Oct 27, 2011 1:07:28pm

re: #152 oaktree

That sounds a bit Nordic...

At the end of the Norse description of the end of the world, the last survivors come out of hiding, and find the chess pieces of the gods scattered around.

The last line is 'that was the end, and this is the beginning'.

201

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Oct 27, 2011 1:08:07pm

re: #174 EmmmieG

The Black Plague, you mean?

The Grey Death.

202

kg7u Thu, Oct 27, 2011 1:22:05pm

re: #31 Big Steve

Hey! No fair! that's MATH! Math is hard!

203

Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Oct 27, 2011 1:28:36pm

Today's daily dose of kitteh!

204

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Oct 27, 2011 1:31:37pm

re: #203 ggt

Too small to pass Fish & Game. Throw it back.
:P

205

Hawaii69 Thu, Oct 27, 2011 5:37:57pm

Well, I guess that makes sense if they're going to lecture you on geometry.

I couldn't solve that without looking it up, but I could talk a hell of
a lot about other kinds of science with confidence.

re: #31 Big Steve

I think there should be a test before anyone is able to get on the media and talk science. Something basic. I propose the following:

1. Draw a circle with a pie piece missing.
2. Indicate that the missing piece angle is 25 degrees.
3. Indicate that the circumference of the circle minus the missing piece is 2 feet.

4. Require the person to solve for the area of the full circle including the missing piece.

206

Stephen T. Fri, Oct 28, 2011 8:44:12am

re: #174 EmmmieG

The Black Plague, you mean?

Speaking of the Plague... The plagues in "Dark Ages" Europe were, apparently, one of the factors ending feudalism and engendering the Renaissance. I believe that before ACC causes a complete societal global collapse that their will be mass deaths in the world reducing population pressures on the environment.

I hate to think that a massive pandemic that kills millions may be necessary to save billions, but it is what it is.

207

Integral Doc Sun, Oct 30, 2011 4:05:34am

Is this the same woman?
[Link: www.arkansasbusiness.com...]
She is a political strategist?

Spy Mode Auto

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