Pamela Geller: The Foiled Al Qaeda Bombing Plot Proves Obama Is Weak on Terror

Wingnut pretzel logic
Wingnuts • Views: 28,330

Here’s anti-Muslim hate group leader Pamela Geller on the foiled Al Qaeda airplane bombing plot announced today; to her twisted brain, it’s just more evidence that Obama is weak on terrorism:

CIA THWARTS ISLAMIC UNDERWEAR BOMB PLOT TO DESTROY US-BOUND AIRLINER!!!!! - Atlas Shrugs

No worries, the conceited horse’s ass in the White House (campaigning in Ka-bull, no less) assures us the war on terruh is ovuh. And the Baghdad Bob enemedia lauds O’s surrender strategy to jihadists, as …… genius.

Too many dim-witted neologisms. Does not compute.

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191 comments
1 b_Snark  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:17:54pm

Dunning Kruger is strong in this one.

2 jaunte  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:18:35pm

Reading Pam's extra-chunky prose is like drinking a Cement Mixer.

3 Stanghazi  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:18:54pm

How do I file the traitor complaint?

4 Kragar  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:19:00pm

If he keeps killing them, their wont be any more to wage war against!

5 Gus  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:19:47pm

re: #2 jaunte

Reading Pam's extra-chunky prose is like drinking a Cement Mixer.

Open wide and get ready for a big old swig of Shotcrete™.

6 Targetpractice  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:19:55pm

Eh, don't be so hard on Pam. She's been like this ever since somebody dropped a house on her sister.

///

7 darthstar  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:20:11pm

It seems my ignore button is not functioning as much as I had hoped.

8 b_Snark  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:20:31pm

re: #3 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

How do I file the traitor complaint?

It's the same form as the stupidity complaint.

9 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:20:37pm

Crazy, crazy/

10 jamesfirecat  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:25:26pm

re: #8 b_sharp

It's the same form as the stupidity complaint.

Oh just fill out a ID-10T form is it?

11 b_Snark  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:27:12pm

re: #10 jamesfirecat

Oh just fill out a ID-10T form is it?

You'll find them right beside the OBL-IV-10T forms.

12 Killgore Trout  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:29:27pm

The Obama regime is busting up all kinds of terrorists these days. Underwear bombers, occupiers, drone strike in Yemen, neo-Nazis in Florida. Keep 'em coming!

13 b_Snark  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:34:02pm

re: #7 darthstar

It seems my ignore button is not functioning as much as I had hoped.

You have an ignore button?

I just have an on/off button.

14 jaunte  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:39:03pm

re: #12 Killgore Trout

The Obama regime is busting up all kinds of terrorists these days. Underwear bombers, occupiers, drone strike in Yemen, neo-Nazis in Florida. Keep 'em coming!

Surrenderpology strategy!

15 SpaceJesus  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:41:08pm

someone's underwear is in a knot right now, and it's not the bomber's...

16 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:47:33pm

re: #6 Targetpractice

Eh, don't be so hard on Pam. She's been like this ever since somebody dropped a house on her sister.

///

Pam: I'll get you my pretty, and your little dog t.(WHUMP)
[Michelle Obama slugs Pam in the gut, folding Geller like a wine bottle opener]

Michelle: You should remember who you're talking to! I'm not from Kansas, I'm from Chicago, where we take action when some nutcase threatens our family!

/This is post is entirely in jest, but It's a nice fantasy. I'd never want to see it in real life, though.

17 erik_t  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:47:37pm

(head cocks)

Que?

18 austin_blue  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:50:28pm

The problem The Gaspers have is that Obama's foreign policy is his strongest area. And he's a Democrat, which hasn't happened in a long, long time.

So any thwarting of an attack plan (which is a police, not a military, action) must be attacked as a weakness. It's not, but at this point, that's all they've got in the quiver.

19 _RememberTonyC  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:50:48pm

My wife is watching real housewives of new jersey, does anyone know where I can buy some brain bleach?

20 Big Joe Ghazi  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:52:22pm

re: #19 _RememberTonyC

My wife is watching real housewives of new jersey, does anyone know where I can buy some brain bleach?

Liquor store.

21 Gus  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:52:35pm

re: #19 _RememberTonyC

My wife is watching real housewives of new jersey, does anyone know where I can buy some brain bleach?

Image: BrainBleachKitteh.jpg

22 Lidane  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:52:55pm

These people are deranged.

I love how stopping a terrorist plot is somehow a weakness. And ordering OBL's death is somehow alternately a desperate ploy by an empty suit and also the obvious call that any thinking POTUS would have made.

23 Targetpractice  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:54:27pm

re: #22 Lidane

These people are deranged.

I love how stopping a terrorist plot is somehow a weakness. And ordering OBL's death is somehow alternately a desperate ploy by an empty suit and also the obvious call that any thinking POTUS would have made.

No shit, I've actually heard a wingnut or two assert that Obama was stupid for killing OBL, because they could have just kept him under surveillance and used that for intelligence gains.

Can you imagine for a second the uproar that would have come from the country, Left and Right, had it become news that Obama knew where OBL was but was sitting on that info, regardless of the reason why?

24 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:54:47pm

re: #21 Gus

Image: BrainBleachKitteh.jpg

Would you please email that pic to Harmony Gold?

/Battletech humor

25 CuriousLurker  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:55:06pm

re: #6 Targetpractice

Eh, don't be so hard on Pam. She's been like this ever since somebody dropped a house on her sister.

///

My favorite comment of the week. LOL

26 Achilles Tang  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:55:34pm

Good thing President Obama didn't say "mission accomplished".

27 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:56:47pm

re: #22 Lidane

These people are deranged.

I love how stopping a terrorist plot is somehow a weakness. And ordering OBL's death is somehow alternately a desperate ploy by an empty suit and also the obvious call that any thinking POTUS would have made.

You said it deranged. Geller has since Obama became president wanted to spread this bullshit falsehood that he's a terrorism apologist. The fact that it's not true at all and he continues to show that he's arguably tougher on terrorism than Bush was just infuriates her so much because she's got a load of bullshit to sell to her equally deranged readership.

28 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:57:31pm

re: #23 Targetpractice

No shit, I've actually heard a wingnut or two assert that Obama was stupid for killing OBL, because they could have just kept him under surveillance and used that for intelligence gains.

Can you imagine for a second the uproar that would have come from the country, Left and Right, had it become news that Obama knew where OBL was but was sitting on that info, regardless of the reason why?

I know right. Really Obama can't win with these jerks. It's just sad.

29 erik_t  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:58:26pm

re: #27 HappyWarrior

You said it deranged. Geller has since Obama became president wanted to spread this bullshit falsehood that he's a terrorism apologist. The fact that it's not true at all and he continues to show that he's arguably tougher on terrorism than Bush was just infuriates her so much because she's got a load of bullshit to sell to her equally deranged readership.

The thing that cracks me up is that we're not even required to think 90deg apart from the truth, but actually bend back onto it.

It's not 'look, over there, a pony!', it's 'look, over there is a pony that proves the pony is actually a swimming pool!'

30 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:58:53pm

National Review hasn't weighed in on this yet. So I'll have to wait till tomorrow for a sane conservative view on this success (and a success is what it was).

31 Charleston Chew  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:59:09pm

No matter what right-wingers say, President Obama is still the first US President of the 21st century to not have 3000 Americans killed in a terrorist attack on his watch.

32 SpaceJesus  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:00:25pm

Freep seems to be taking the recent elections in Europe well

To: Longbow1969
You’re probably right. But after 3, going on 4 generations, since the rise of Nazism, you’d think the younger Germans these days would say “enough” to the rest of parasitical Europe and tell them to Ef off. I hope the German Army is at least half the men it used to be; they’d scare the $hit out of the rest of Europe by flexing a little muscle and goose stepping around a bit. Just sayin’.


12 posted on Mon May 07 2012 19:20:12 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time) by john drake (Roman military maxim; "oderint dum metuant," i.e., "let them hate, as long as they fear.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

33 Achilles Tang  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:01:47pm

re: #23 Targetpractice

No shit, I've actually heard a wingnut or two assert that Obama was stupid for killing OBL, because they could have just kept him under surveillance and used that for intelligence gains.

Can you imagine for a second the uproar that would have come from the country, Left and Right, had it become news that Obama knew where OBL was but was sitting on that info, regardless of the reason why?

I propose a law that says anyone who posts on blogs has to do so with a tablet that accepts only handwriting, cursive, without spell checker.

I trust the point is self evident.

34 _RememberTonyC  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:02:01pm

Now she's watching Bethenny Ever After ... I need brain bleach AND some pills ...

35 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:02:36pm

re: #29 erik_t

The thing that cracks me up is that we're not even required to think 90deg apart from the truth, but actually bend back onto it.

It's not 'look, over there, a pony!', it's 'look, over there is a pony that proves the pony is actually a swimming pool!'

Haha I like that analogy alot. Really the anti-Obama deragenment is insane. He gets the most wanted man. Then some of them have a problem for not making Bin Laden's corpse a public spectacle. And then he like any politician uses what happened as an accomplishment which it very much is in light of the fact that his two predecessors couldn't get this guy. And then they accuse him of bragging. They really are unbelievable when it comes to him. As I said, people like Geller have an agenda to sell Obama as a terrorism enabler. It just makes them that hurt that he's blown their tired bullshit meme about liberals and Democrats being weak on national security out of the water.

36 Lidane  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:03:32pm

re: #30 Dark_Falcon

LOL @ putting National Review and "sane conservative" in the same post. They're just as unhinged as the rest of them.

37 erik_t  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:03:45pm

re: #30 Dark_Falcon

National Review hasn't weighed in on this yet. So I'll have to wait till tomorrow for a sane conservative view on this success (and a success is what it was).

I see what you did there.

38 prairiefire  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:04:05pm

re: #34 _RememberTonyC

Now she's watching Bethenny Ever After ... I need brain bleach AND some pills ...

I admire Bethany's entrepreneurial spirit, but there is something about the tone of her voice...

39 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:04:13pm

re: #32 SpaceJesus

Freep seems to be taking the recent elections in Europe well

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

Because the last time the German Army went goose-stepping in. It went soooo well. But remember it's the left that espouses violent rhetoric and the right are the only true freedom loving people. PS how very Nazisque of freeper to call his opponents parasites. Goebells would be proud.

40 Lidane  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:05:03pm

re: #32 SpaceJesus

Freep seems to be taking the recent elections in Europe well

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

I have FB friends who are convinced that all of Europe is going to implode now that Sarkozy lost. WTF.

41 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:05:53pm

re: #36 Lidane

LOL @ putting National Review and "sane conservative" in the same post. They're just as unhinged as the rest of them.

I disagree, firmly.

42 erik_t  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:06:32pm

re: #41 Dark_Falcon

I disagree, firmly.

Of course you do, and you'd love to explain why, but coincidentally it's time to go to bed or whatever.

See you tomorrow!

43 jaunte  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:06:57pm

I would think that conservatives would agree that stopping an Al-Qaeda bomb plot is a good thing.

44 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:07:23pm

re: #43 jaunte

I would think that conservatives would agree that stopping an Al-Qaeda bomb plot is a good thing.

Geller isn't a conservative. She's a lunatic first.

45 Lidane  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:07:26pm

re: #41 Dark_Falcon

I disagree, firmly.

They had to be shamed into firing obvious white supremacist writers. That tells me all I need to know about National Review.

46 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:07:55pm

re: #42 erik_t

Of course you do, and you'd love to explain why, but coincidentally it's time to go to bed or whatever.

See you tomorrow!

Actually, I'm good for at least another hour tonight, skippy. Wanna dance?

47 jaunte  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:08:08pm

re: #44 HappyWarrior

True; I was thinking more about the National Review folks.

48 Targetpractice  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:08:21pm

re: #40 Lidane

I have FB friends who are convinced that all of Europe is going to implode now that Sarkozy lost. WTF.

Hollande's a member of the Socialist Party. That's all they need to know.

49 _RememberTonyC  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:08:28pm

re: #38 prairiefire

I admire Bethany's entrepreneurial spirit, but there is something about the tone of her voice...

One of my friends is pals with Bethenny's husband (I think his name is Jason) he said Bethenny treats her hubby like absolute shit ...

50 Lidane  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:08:33pm

re: #43 jaunte

I would think that conservatives would agree that stopping an Al-Qaeda bomb plot is a good thing.

Pfft. For the wingnuts, it's only a good thing if a white Republican does it.

51 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:08:54pm

re: #47 jaunte

True; I was thinking more about the National Review folks.

Oh shit I dunno about them. They're not lunatics like Geller is but Lidane nailed it when she pointed out the white supremacists that have written for said publication.

52 erik_t  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:09:07pm

re: #46 Dark_Falcon

Actually, I'm good for at least another hour tonight, skippy. Wanna dance?

Lidane seems to have a firm grip on this. Frankly, I don't do the National Review the honor of reading or following closely. Bunch of clowns sitting in a circle banging on pots.

53 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:10:05pm

re: #45 Lidane

They had to be shamed into firing obvious white supremacist writers. That tells me all I need to know about National Review.

John Derbyshire is a racist, but not a white supremacist. That other guy was a minor contributor who Rich Lowery hadn't even know attended a racist convention till Gus and Charles brought the fact into the light. The ass was gone the same day.

54 Targetpractice  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:10:23pm

re: #52 erik_t

Lidane seems to have a firm grip on this. Frankly, I don't do the National Review the honor of reading or following closely. Bunch of clowns sitting in a circle banging on pots.

Are we talking about NR or the GOP primaries?

//

55 Lidane  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:13:24pm

re: #53 Dark_Falcon

John Derbyshire is a racist, but not a white supremacist. That other guy was a minor contributor who Rich Lowery hadn't even know attended a racist convention till Gus and Charles brought the fact into the light. The ass was gone the same day.

Wonderful. What about NR's racist history? Are we going to sweep that aside as well?

Derbyshire was openly racist -- and yes, white supremacist-- and NR kept him on staff for well over a decade. The only reason they fired him at all is because he finally said something they couldn't cast aside as PC liberals being too overly sensitive. As for the other guy, come on. Seriously? We're going with the "Rich 'Starbursts' Lowry didn't know" excuse?

56 prairiefire  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:14:40pm

re: #45 Lidane

They had to be shamed into firing obvious white supremacist writers. That tells me all I need to know about National Review.

They are sloths, intellectual wise.

57 Lidane  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:16:23pm

re: #38 prairiefire

I admire Bethany's entrepreneurial spirit, but there is something about the tone of her voice...

I'd rather listen to Fran Drescher read the phone book than listen to Betheny Frankel. =P

58 _RememberTonyC  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:17:20pm

re: #57 Lidane

I'd rather listen to Fran Drescher read the phone book than listen to Betheny Frankel. =P

They appear to have similar qualities ...

59 Gus  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:17:44pm

re: #57 Lidane

I'd rather listen to Fran Drescher read the phone book than listen to Betheny Frankel. =P

I never heard Betheny Frankel but that sounds funny!

60 CuriousLurker  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:19:17pm

re: #30 Dark_Falcon

National Review hasn't weighed in on this yet. So I'll have to wait till tomorrow for a sane conservative view on this success (and a success is what it was).

Don't you have a view of your own, D_F? Just curious...

61 jaunte  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:20:15pm

NRO is currently featuring a nostalgic freakout over Bernardine Dohrn.

62 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:20:29pm

re: #55 Lidane

Wonderful. What about NR's racist history? Are we going to sweep that aside as well?

Derbyshire was openly racist -- and yes, white supremacist-- and NR kept him on staff for well over a decade. The only reason they fired him at all is because he finally said something they couldn't cast aside as PC liberals being too overly sensitive. As for the other guy, come on. Seriously? We're going with the "Rich 'Starbursts' Lowry didn't know" excuse?

I'm not denying the racist nature of Derbyshire's writings, but how was he a white supremacist? He seemed much more a 'hierarchical' racist to me.

63 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:21:44pm

re: #60 CuriousLurker

Don't you have a view of your own, D_F? Just curious...

Yes, but I don't have a true national security background, and the people that do won't talk about this till tomorrow.

64 b_Snark  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:21:50pm
Youtube Video
65 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:22:12pm

re: #61 jaunte

NRO is currently featuring a nostalgic freakout over Bernardine Dohrn.

Oh brother.

66 Gus  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:22:31pm

re: #61 jaunte

NRO is currently featuring a nostalgic freakout over Bernardine Dohrn.

I was just thinking that NRO is basically another right-wing meme generator.

67 Lidane  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:22:40pm

re: #62 Dark_Falcon

I'm not denying the racist nature of Derbyshire's writings, but how was he a white supremacist? He seemed much more a 'hierarchical' racist to me.

His hierarchy of racism had white men at the top of the food chain. What would you call it?

68 erik_t  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:24:00pm

Wait, are we now discussing what levels of racism are more and less acceptable? Can someone please give me the other interpretation that I hope to hell I'm missing?

69 Lidane  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:24:35pm

re: #63 Dark_Falcon

Yes, but I don't have a true national security background, and the people that do won't talk about this till tomorrow.

Do you seriously need other people to tell you whether or not the CIA stopping a terrorist attack is a bad thing? Come on, Dark. Some things are pretty obvious on their face.

In this case, stopping a terrorist attack isn't a weakness. It is, in fact, what we expect from the POTUS. For anyone to call this a weakness or imply that it's somehow bad is ridiculous.

70 CuriousLurker  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:24:48pm

re: #63 Dark_Falcon

Yes, but I don't have a true national security background, and the people that do won't talk about this till tomorrow.

*blinks* Do we need to be specialists in something before we can form an opinion? Anyway, as you said, it's a success, so I guess I won't nag you on it.

71 CuriousLurker  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:25:55pm

I've got stuff I need to put in the freezer. Later, lizards.

72 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:26:50pm

re: #67 Lidane

His hierarchy of racism had white men at the top of the food chain. What would you call it?

He seemed to place Asians at the top as well. And I've tended to define "White Supremacist" to mean someone who holds all other races as inferior to whites.

It doesn't matter much morally, though: "Derb" is still utterly wrong and a nasty racist bigot. Fuck him.

73 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:28:42pm

re: #66 Gus

I was just thinking that NRO is basically another right-wing meme generator.

It's like publications like this look for stuff like that for their readership to be outraged about. Kind of like those who still harp on about Reverend Wright to the point of nausea.

74 Eclectic Infidel  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:28:53pm

Very dense of you, Ms Geller.

75 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:29:50pm

re: #69 Lidane

Do you seriously need other people to tell you whether or not the CIA stopping a terrorist attack is a bad thing? Come on, Dark. Some things are pretty obvious on their face.

In this case, stopping a terrorist attack isn't a weakness. It is, in fact, what we expect from the POTUS. For anyone to call this a weakness or imply that it's somehow bad is ridiculous.

I DIDN'T SAY IT WAS A WEAKNESS! Sorry, but I needed to make that clear. I have already called this action by the CIA a success. But There may be things going on that haven't made to headlines and it can be good to here from a Clifford May or Andrew C. McCarthy to hear about what they might be. Those two will, however, present this apprehension as the success it was. Because unlike Pam Geller they are not morally insane.

76 erik_t  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:30:25pm

re: #74 Eclectic Infidel

Very dense of you, Ms Geller.

I think their languages betrays their nature -- the current GOP is core-focused, like their values. The implication is that to be at the center of conservatism implies that one is very, very dense.

77 CriticalDragon1177  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:31:10pm

Charles Johnson

Apparently Obama foiled Al Qaeda's plot to blow up a plane, but he wasn't able to foil their plot to blow up the logic train before she could get on it. Oh wait, I forgot Geller hates logic! :)

78 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:31:53pm

re: #61 jaunte

NRO is currently featuring a nostalgic freakout over Bernardine Dohrn.

Freakout? It was a single short article on a person with a violent radical past working at a foundation that is getting a government grant. It was hardly an inflammatory piece.

79 erik_t  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:33:33pm

re: #75 Dark_Falcon

But There may be things going on that haven't made to headlines and it can be good to here from a Clifford May or Andrew C. McCarthy to hear about what they might be.

Occurrences that happen are factual. The proper job of the media, across the spectrum, is to report on facts. The implication here is that either the National Review is better at digging up facts than any other organization (indeed, better than the combined field), or that the goings-on reported in the National Review are not necessarily factual.

Hmmmmmm.

80 jaunte  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:35:08pm

re: #78 Dark_Falcon

"The Dohrn Connection" title, and the fact that VerBruggen said Dohrn's group had "ties to violent radicals", (present tense) seems a bit overblown.

81 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:36:22pm

re: #79 erik_t

Occurrences that happen are factual. The proper job of the media, across the spectrum, is to report on facts. The implication here is that either the National Review is better at digging up facts than any other organization (indeed, better than the combined field), or that the goings-on reported in the National Review are not necessarily factual.

Hmmm.

No. What I was saying is that I think NR's national security writers are smart and insightful and I value their analysis. Don't read into my words things that aren't there, it's disagreeable.

82 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:37:45pm

Okay, Andrew Cuomo is now a guarantee to run in 2016 now that I see he has an autobiography due out in 2014. Seems the big step towards running for higher office is putting out a book.

83 erik_t  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:38:07pm

re: #81 Dark_Falcon

No. What I was saying is that I think NR's national security writers are smart and insightful and I value their analysis. Don't read into my words things that aren't there, it's disagreeable.

If they're smart and insightful about counter-terrorism activities, then I'm sure they were dubious about President Bush's approaches (which were less than superbly successful) and relatively supportive of those of President Obama (which have paid outstanding dividends).

...Right?

84 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:41:34pm

re: #80 jaunte

"The Dohrn Connection" title, and the fact that VerBruggen said Dohrn's group had "ties to violent radicals", (present tense) seems a bit overblown.

Dohrn was a violent radical, and she has never once expressed remorse for the people the Weather Underground hurt and killed. Those the point is still valid. Maybe you could go with "formerly violent, but still radical", but that's both awkward and questionable, as neither Bernadine Dohrn nor William Ayers has ever renounced violence as a tool of policy, though neither of them advocates violence today.

85 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:42:42pm

re: #83 erik_t

If they're smart and insightful about counter-terrorism activities, then I'm sure they were dubious about President Bush's approaches (which were less than superbly successful) and relatively supportive of those of President Obama (which have paid outstanding dividends).

...Right?

Bush's counter-terrorist tactics post-9/11 worked well, and Obama has in largest measure continued them.

86 Kragar  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:43:23pm

Irony: people who routinely talk about overthrowing the government and who support various militant movements getting upset over someone who talked about overthrowing the government and belonged to a militant movement.

87 jaunte  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:43:30pm

re: #84 Dark_Falcon

There's also the question of how much influence a single board member has on an eleven-member board, but none of the other board members has a name that will gain readership for NRO.

88 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:44:51pm

re: #86 Kragar

Irony: people who routinely talk about overthrowing the government and who support various militant movements getting upset over someone who talked about overthrowing the government and belonged to a militant movement.

Ah, yes, the militia movements of the 90's, yes.

89 Gus  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:47:25pm

Right. It's not about Obama. Uh huh.

The Dohrn Connection
Eric Holder’s DOJ funds a Dohrn-connected organization.
By Robert VerBruggen
National Review

90 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:50:00pm

re: #86 Kragar

Irony: people who routinely talk about overthrowing the government and who support various militant movements getting upset over someone who talked about overthrowing the government and belonged to a militant movement.

Those things you list first are things National Review has never done. It has never talked about overthrowing the government, nor supported any militias. So your argument fails the logic test.

91 Gus  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:52:53pm

re: #89 Gus

Right. It's not about Obama. Uh huh.

The Dohrn Connection
Eric Holder’s DOJ funds a Dohrn-connected organization.
By Robert VerBruggen
National Review

And I'm already finding crap about race, IQ, "I'm not a racist", EIEIO, about VerBruggen.

92 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:53:29pm

re: #91 Gus

And I'm already finding crap about race, IQ, "I'm not a racist", EIEIO, about VerBruggen.

Sheesh. And it needs to be said but if you have to say you're not a racist dozens of times after writing racist stuff, you're probably a racist.

93 jaunte  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:53:51pm

re: #90 Dark_Falcon

Reihan Salam is pretty sympathetic to the Oath Keepers.

"Granted, some members of the Oath Keepers might strike Sharrock and Barstow as eccentric. But either I’m missing something or the Oath Keepers are an indication that a pretty large minority of Americans really care a lot about their constitutional liberties, and are cognizant of the fact that some elected officials on the right and the left aren’t driven by the same constitutional zeal."
[Link: www.nationalreview.com...]

94 Kragar  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:54:27pm

re: #90 Dark_Falcon

Those things you list first are things National Review has never done. It has never talked about overthrowing the government, nor supported any militias. So your argument fails the logic test.

The various commentors bitching about it on various sites have never talked about overthrowing Obama or supporting militias for border security or defending us against the dirty Fed?

I did not know that.

95 Gus  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:55:37pm

re: #92 HappyWarrior

Sheesh.

Not sure yet but here's this:

NRO's Robert VerBruggen defends his publication:

I consider myself an agnostic on many questions relating to race and genetics. I do strongly believe, like numerous scientists including at least one New York Times contributor, that race is not just a "social construct"... Pareene says that these beliefs don’t make me a "racist," though apparently they warrant 300-plus words in an article about the "racists" of "the Right." I, for one, think it’s important that we come up with a definition of racism that focuses on ill will rather than sincere beliefs about facts. There is no reason to force people to choose between being called "racist" — or at least being lumped in with racists — and being wrong.

and

Is the right really breaking up with its racists?

Conservatives like VerBruggen seem attracted to genetic determinism, especially when it reinforces their view that society’s “winners and losers” each deserve their lot in life: When research shows that the lower classes tend to score worse on IQ tests than rich people, the conservative interpretation is not that IQ increases with, say, greater economic security and nutrition and access to healthcare and a million other environmental factors, but that rich people are rich because they are smarter. This leads to fatalism — to Murray’s sorrowful belief that there’s only so much we can do as a nation to improve the lives of our downtrodden underclass. They’re just dumb!

Dances with "race realism."

96 Gus  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:56:19pm

That's after about 240 seconds of searching. I could look further into it.

97 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:57:36pm

re: #95 Gus

Not sure yet but here's this:

and

Dances with "race realism."

Quack if you see scientific racism here.

98 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:57:43pm

re: #93 jaunte

Reihan Salam is pretty sympathetic to the Oath Keepers.

That article did not view the Oathkeepers as the militia some of them became later (it was not a militia at first, only becoming one as it shrank and got freaky-insane), nor did it give any approval to the idea of overthrowing the government.

99 Gus  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:59:50pm

Here. Read his own "defense":

On Race and Genetics
By Robert VerBruggen
April 16, 2012 5:18 P.M

100 jaunte  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:59:54pm

re: #98 Dark_Falcon

The started out as nutty anti-federalists:
Richard Mack: "The greatest threat we face today is not terrorists; it is our federal government… One of the best and easiest solutions is to depend on local officials, especially the sheriff, to stand against federal intervention and federal criminality."

101 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:00:13pm

re: #94 Kragar

The various commentors bitching about it on various sites have never talked about overthrowing Obama or supporting militias for border security or defending us against the dirty Fed?

I did not know that.

I'm talking about National Review. Can NR be blamed for what other people write about its articles on other websites?

102 prairiefire  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:01:30pm

re: #100 jaunte

Isn't the whole Republican Presidential platform anti-federalist?

103 Kragar  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:01:32pm

re: #101 Dark_Falcon

I'm talking about National Review. Can NR be blamed for what other people write about its articles on other websites?

I never mentioned National Review. They can play a game of hide and go fuck themselves for all I care.

104 Gus  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:01:57pm

Here. I'll save you the trouble. Here's the Tweet for the race realist's article at NRO:

105 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:03:06pm

re: #99 Gus

Here. Read his own "defense":

On Race and Genetics
By Robert VerBruggen
April 16, 2012 5:18 P.M

Here's it's crucial paragraph:

However, genetic research is still in its early stages, and we do not yet have a clear picture of how genes contribute to intelligence; thus, we’re not even close to being able to determine whether genes contribute to racial differences in intelligence. (Though twin and adoption studies do prove that there is some genetic contribution to differences between individuals.) Until we have that information, we’re stuck with far inferior methods for investigating the origin of racial IQ gaps — using advanced statistical techniques to “control” for non-genetic explanations, etc. — and I think it’s premature to come to any sort of conclusion. I’ve even said that The Bell Curve “jumped the gun by at least a quarter-century” in the claims it made.

He's not saying IQ has racial makeup, he's saying that the correlation between IQ and genetics is still too unclear to draw any definitive conclusions. That's not racist.

106 goddamnedfrank  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:03:21pm

re: #90 Dark_Falcon

Those things you list first are things National Review has never done. It has never talked about overthrowing the government, nor supported any militias. So your argument fails the logic test.

Just because you're orally fixated on the National Review doesn't mean that's what this thread is about or that Kragar was in any way referencing it. So your response fails the basic reading comprehension test.

107 Gus  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:03:45pm

re: #104 Gus

Here. I'll save you the trouble. Here's the Tweet for the race realist's article at NRO:

[Embedded content]

Got it?

Dohrn -> W. Haywood Burns Institute -> Justice Department -> Holder -> BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA!!!!!!

108 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:03:46pm

re: #104 Gus

Here. I'll save you the trouble. Here's the Tweet for the race realist's article at NRO:

[Embedded content]

Thanks, retweeted.

109 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:04:01pm

re: #100 jaunte

The started out as nutty anti-federalists:
Richard Mack: "The greatest threat we face today is not terrorists; it is our federal government… One of the best and easiest solutions is to depend on local officials, especially the sheriff, to stand against federal intervention and federal criminality."

I don't even know how to respond to that load of crap statement. But when you've been convinced that the federal government is your sworn enemy, I guess this is how you think. Real, real sad if you ask me. The federal government isn't our enemy and I'm tired of them being made into this scary boogeyman that they're not. Should some things be state, local, and private enterprise? Sure, but the oh my god the federal government is tyranny argument is just pathetic.

110 Gus  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:04:13pm

re: #105 Dark_Falcon

Here's it's crucial paragraph:

He's not saying IQ has racial makeup, he's saying that the correlation between IQ and genetics is still too unclear to draw any definitive conclusions. That's not racist.

Nope. Not racist. He's just an asshole.

Any questions?

111 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:04:59pm

re: #107 Gus

Got it?

Dohrn -> W. Haywood Burns Institute -> Justice Department -> Holder -> BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA!!!

-Kevin Bacon? Sorry dude I just had to. Whole thing to me reeks of this guy trying to stir up fear about Obama's DoJ.

112 Gus  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:05:32pm

re: #108 Dark_Falcon

Thanks, retweeted.

It's a load of wingnut bullshit.

113 Eclectic Infidel  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:06:32pm

At the end of the day, I can't help but wonder if what Ms Geller is REALLY angry about is the fact that the terrorist act DIDN'T take place. Imagine what that would do for her fan base.

114 Daniel Ballard  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:06:38pm

re: #105 Dark_Falcon

Dude he is dissembling.

115 Charles Johnson  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:07:36pm
116 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:07:51pm

re: #106 goddamnedfrank

Frank, have a care, would you? We were talking about a National Review article when Kragar posted that. It was not unreasonable to believe he was mistaken. If he wasn't talking about NR then he wasn't and I'll except that, but it was not at all clear at the time.

117 Charles Johnson  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:07:54pm
118 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:08:55pm

re: #115 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Heh the left's Frank Robinson for Milt Pappas trade.

119 prairiefire  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:10:58pm

re: #115 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

In no way, shape or form are you comparable to lickspittle Morris, Charles.

120 Gus  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:12:33pm

DMC and racial and ethnic disparities exist in Ramsey County. However, with the help of the W. Haywood Burns Institute and the Juvenile Detention Alternatives Initiative (JDAI), we have committed to engaging in an intentional, collaborative and data driven approach to reduce DMC and eliminate racial and ethnic disparities. - Michael Belton Ramsey County Deputy Director of Juvenile Correction

Source: [Link: republicans.edlabor.house.gov...]

Republican?

121 Gus  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:15:02pm

The W. Haywood Burns Institute (BI) is a San Francisco-based national nonprofit organization. Our mission: To protect and improve the lives of youth of color, poor youth and the well-being of their communities by reducing the adverse impacts of public and private youth-serving systems to ensure fairness and equity throughout the juvenile justice system.

122 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:15:39pm

And Jon "Not intended to be a factual statement" Kyl shows why student voters want nothing to do with his party. Anything to protect tax cuts for corporations.
[Link: www.cnn.com...]

123 palomino  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:16:20pm

re: #62 Dark_Falcon

I'm not denying the racist nature of Derbyshire's writings, but how was he a white supremacist? He seemed much more a 'hierarchical' racist to me.

Because in Derbyshire's pseudoscientific "hierarchy of races" whites are supreme. Kinda the definition of white supremacist.

Yeah, I know Derb's wife is Asian. So what? Why you're twisting yourself into semantic knots to defend a repugnant relic like Derb is beyond me.

124 Gus  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:17:27pm

re: #108 Dark_Falcon

Thanks, retweeted.

You should be embarrassed to disparage what seems to be rather wonderful foundation all for cheap political points.

125 gwangung  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:19:57pm

re: #123 palomino

Because in Derbyshire's pseudoscientific "hierarchy of races" whites are supreme. Kinda the definition of white supremacist.

Yeah, I know Derb's wife is Asian. So what?

Asiaphile. Possible sign of a white supremacist.

126 palomino  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:20:11pm

re: #122 HappyWarrior

And Jon "Not intended to be a factual statement" Kyl shows why student voters want nothing to do with his party. Anything to protect tax cuts for corporations.
[Link: www.cnn.com...]

What we're looking at is a bunch of rich old white men who don't want to pay their taxes, and will thus make laws that benefit--surprise, surprise--themselves.

"There's something severely broken about a system in which a millionaire pays a lower rate than a bus driver." --Ronald Reagan (class warrior)

127 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:23:10pm

re: #123 palomino

Because in Derbyshire's pseudoscientific "hierarchy of races" whites are supreme. Kinda the definition of white supremacist.

Yeah, I know Derb's wife is Asian. So what? Why you're twisting yourself into semantic knots to defend a repugnant relic like Derb is beyond me.

re: #72 Dark_Falcon

He seemed to place Asians at the top as well. And I've tended to define "White Supremacist" to mean someone who holds all other races as inferior to whites.

It doesn't matter much morally, though: "Derb" is still utterly wrong and a nasty racist bigot. Fuck him.

I care about correctly defining assholes like that, in order to fight them more effectively. But you and I do agree on the crucial thing: John Derbyshire is a racist and a bigoted asshole.

128 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:23:21pm

re: #126 palomino

What we're looking at is a bunch of rich old white men who don't want to pay their taxes, and will thus make laws that benefit--surprise, surprise--themselves.

"There's something severely broken about a system in which a millionaire pays a lower rate than a bus driver." --Ronald Reagan (class warrior)

Yep. Seriously the way they coddle the wealthy and corporations is just sad as hell to me. But hey Grover Norquist said no tax increases ever and they're afraid of pissing him off. Who cares about kids wanting to stay in school to get a better education. Some corporation needs the extra thousand at a time during record corporate profits. Never mind the fact that a better education public is a more prosperous nation which by the way is why it's stupid to support cutting education .

129 palomino  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:24:24pm

re: #104 Gus

Here. I'll save you the trouble. Here's the Tweet for the race realist's article at NRO:

[Embedded content]

This is the same BS used back in 2007-08 to smear Obama. Dohrn, an education professor, sits on a board that got a govt grant. Therefore, Dohrn and Holder and Obama all should be held responsible for anything the others have ever done. It's the most simplistic and cynical form of guilt by (tenuous) association.

130 Lidane  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:25:26pm

re: #122 HappyWarrior

And Jon "Not intended to be a factual statement" Kyl shows why student voters want nothing to do with his party. Anything to protect tax cuts for corporations.
[Link: www.cnn.com...]

Paul Ryan went out of his way to make friends with younger voters too:

Paul Ryan Says He Wouldn’t Close Corporate Tax Loopholes To Prevent Student Loan Interest Hike

Youtube Video
131 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:27:02pm

re: #130 Lidane

Paul Ryan went out of his way to make friends with younger voters too:

Paul Ryan Says He Wouldn’t Close Corporate Tax Loopholes To Prevent Student Loan Interest Hike

[Embedded content]

So here's the minority senate whip and House budget committee head basically saying to America's college students "Fuck you, we care more about protecting corporate tax loopholes than you not being in big debt after you graduate." But hey America's college students are nothing but a bunch of Che shirt wearing, pot smoking leftists. They deserve it!

132 funky chicken  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:28:45pm

re: #32 SpaceJesus

What the holy hell?

133 Lidane  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:29:17pm

re: #131 HappyWarrior

So here's the minority senate whip and House budget committee head basically saying to America's college students "Fuck you, we care more about protecting corporate tax loopholes than you not being in big debt after you graduate."

Pretty much, yeah.

Image: voting_republican.jpg

134 palomino  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:31:08pm

re: #132 funky chicken

What the holy hell?

Typical authoritarian dream: flex some muscle for no reason except to coerce others into shutting up.

135 Targetpractice  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:31:32pm

re: #131 HappyWarrior

So here's the minority senate whip and House budget committee head basically saying to America's college students "Fuck you, we care more about protecting corporate tax loopholes than you not being in big debt after you graduate." But hey America's college students are nothing but a bunch of Che shirt wearing, pot smoking leftists. They deserve it!

What's also not mentioned is that most of those Republicans on the hill who are either A) suggesting that the poor face deeper cuts to pay for the bill preventing student loan rates from spikiing or B) suggesting that the spike shouldn't be averted all graduated from colleges back when they were free or far cheaper than today. Hell, Ryan went to college on Social Security survivor benefits.

136 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:32:10pm

re: #133 Lidane

Pretty much, yeah.

Image: voting_republican.jpg

Heh and remember how pissy Boehner got when Obama took them to the campaign trail over this. What do they expect him to do? Not tell America's college students that his opponents prefer being yes men to corporate power over people.

137 Lidane  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:33:31pm

re: #135 Targetpractice

Hell, Ryan went to college on Social Security survivor benefits.

Which, of course, would now be considered socialism by the wingnuts.

138 Targetpractice  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:34:18pm

re: #137 Lidane

Which, of course, would now be considered socialism by the wingnuts.

Which would be a great joke considering survivor benefits today probably wouldn't even pay for the books you'd need for a semester.

139 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:34:46pm

re: #135 Targetpractice

What's also not mentioned is that most of those Republicans on the hill who are either A) suggesting that the poor face deeper cuts to pay for the bill preventing student loan rates from spikiing or B) suggesting that the spike shouldn't be averted all graduated from colleges back when they were free or far cheaper than today. Hell, Ryan went to college on Social Security survivor benefits.

Yep sounds about accurate to me. Personally, I loved how pissed off Boehner got when Obama took to some of the campuses over this. If I were still an undergrad, I'd be screaming loudly as possible about this. Hell as a graduate, it still pisses me off because I still got a lot of friends there who will be screwed if Kyl and Ryan get their way. But then again these guys come from the party of a presidential primary runner up who thinks it's snobbery to think every American should have the shot at some post secondary education.

140 Gus  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:35:38pm

Burns Institute : James Bell

James Bell is the Founder and Executive Director of the W. Haywood Burns Institute.

Since 2001, Mr. Bell has been spearheading a national movement to address racial and ethnic disparities in the juvenile justice system. The BI,
which is named after civil rights pioneer W. Haywood Burns, was recently
awarded the prestigious MacArthur Award for Creative and Effective
Institutions. The award is presented to select organizations worldwide that have made a “remarkable impact in their fields.”

...

Mr. Bell has extensive experience in the international juvenile justice arena: He assisted the African National Congress in the administration of the juvenile justice system in South Africa; recently worked with Chinese officials and policymakers on alternatives for proven risk youth moving from the countryside to the cities; and worked closely with officials in New Zealand and Australia to analyze the principles and practices that form the foundation of their restorative justice systems.

Mr. Bell is the recipient of a Kellogg National Leadership Fellowship, the Livingstone Hall Award from the American Bar Association, Attorney of the Year from the Charles Houston Bar Association, the Advocate of the Year from the Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention, the Moral Leadership Against Injustice Award of the Delancey Street Foundation and the Local Hero Award from the San Francisco Corporation for Public Broadcasting and the James Irvine Foundation Leadership Award.

He received his J.D. from Hastings College of the Law.

141 Targetpractice  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:36:46pm

re: #139 HappyWarrior

Yep sounds about accurate to me. Personally, I loved how pissed off Boehner got when Obama took to some of the campuses over this. If I were still an undergrad, I'd be screaming loudly as possible about this. Hell as a graduate, it still pisses me off because I still got a lot of friends there who will be screwed if Kyl and Ryan get their way. But then again these guys come from the party of a presidential primary runner up who thinks it's snobbery to think every American should have the shot at some post secondary education.

That's got nothing on the guy who won the primaries trying to accuse Obama of elitism by going to Harvard...when he himself went there for far longer than Obama did.

142 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:36:57pm

re: #140 Gus

Burns Institute : James Bell

Sounds like one of the good guys. Lame as hell for NRO to attack this foundation as a means of fear-mongreling about Dohrn.

143 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:37:47pm

ahahaha --Did the Lizards call this one or what?

Now for something completely different.

How is the evening going?

144 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:39:01pm

re: #141 Targetpractice

That's got nothing on the guy who won the primaries trying to accuse Obama of elitism by going to Harvard...when he himself went there for far longer than Obama did.

That one was pretty funny too but I still think Santorum calling Obama's hope snobbery tops it. I should also add that one of my cousins just graduated from Cornell, first Ivy Leaguer in our family that I know. So instead of calling her a snob when I see her at the family party, I am going to offer my congratulations. But I am not running for president as Mitt Romney either.

145 Lidane  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:41:23pm

re: #138 Targetpractice

Which would be a great joke considering survivor benefits today probably wouldn't even pay for the books you'd need for a semester.

Seriously. The degree I just finished cost me about $12.9K per semester for four semesters and that's just tuition and fees. Books, rent, food, and bills were extra. Oh, and there was the fun I had where I paid an additional $5400 last summer so I could get credit hours for working at an unpaid internship.

But hey, everyone in college is just a hippie trying to drain the system. Or something.

146 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:53:41pm

re: #70 CuriousLurker

*blinks* Do we need to be specialists in something before we can form an opinion? Anyway, as you said, it's a success, so I guess I won't nag you on it.

An opinion, yes, but this stuff can be pretty technical. I like to see what people who've got degrees in it have to say.

147 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:01:07pm

re: #94 Kragar

The various commentors bitching about it on various sites have never talked about overthrowing Obama or supporting militias for border security or defending us against the dirty Fed?

I did not know that.

Oh, if we're talking about commenters...

148 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:02:44pm

re: #105 Dark_Falcon

Here's it's crucial paragraph:

He's not saying IQ has racial makeup, he's saying that the correlation between IQ and genetics is still too unclear to draw any definitive conclusions. That's not racist.

What he's saying is much closer to "We hold out desperate hope that further genetic research will confirm our own deeply held beliefs that intelligence is racially linked.

149 Mich-again  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:05:04pm

Here in Michigan, a Virginia Super PAC called State Government Leadership Foundation, unleashed a "Teachers are the Real Bullies" Campaign in the media. More RW bullshit advocating vouchers for religious schools and Web-based high schools.

Anyhow it made me realize a logical inconsistency in the RW groupthink.

On one hand, RW organizations claim that poor teacher performance is the number one problem in public education and that teachers should be evaluated based solely on student performance. Unions are bad because they prevent the weeding out of bad teachers. They have all sorts of data to support that claim.

On the other hand, all RW organizations will also claim how a stable family environment featuring a mom and a dad who are married to each other provides the best results when raising children. They have all sorts of data to support that claim as well.

But you can't have it both ways. Either its all the teacher's credit, or it's all the teachers fault. You can't say this kid did bad at school because his teachers sucked but this other kid did good at school because he comes from a good family.

But I don't expect any logical consistency from the RW anymore. Too many lies have locked up their positronic brains.

150 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:06:57pm

re: #149 Mich-again

Here in Michigan, a Virginia Super PAC called State Government Leadership Foundation, unleashed a "Teachers are the Real Bullies" Campaign in the media. More RW bullshit advocating vouchers for religious schools and Web-based high schools.

Anyhow it made me realize a logical inconsistency in the RW groupthink.

On one hand, RW organizations claim that poor teacher performance is the number one problem in public education and that teachers should be evaluated based solely on student performance. Unions are bad because they prevent the weeding out of bad teachers. They have all sorts of data to support that claim.

On the other hand, all RW organizations will also claim how a stable family environment featuring a mom and a dad who are married to each other provides the best results when raising children. They have all sorts of data to support that claim as well.

But you can't have it both ways. Either its all the teacher's credit, or it's all the teachers fault. You can't say this kid did bad at school because his teachers sucked but this other kid did good at school because he comes from a good family.

But I don't expect any logical consistency from the RW anymore. Too many lies have locked up their positronic brains.

Politicans (in general) seem to throw lots of spaghetti against the wall and just hope it sticks. If they do it enough times, in enough different ways, maybe they will be the one with most stuck on the wall on election day.

151 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:09:10pm

re: #149 Mich-again

Here in Michigan, a Virginia Super PAC called State Government Leadership Foundation, unleashed a "Teachers are the Real Bullies" Campaign in the media. More RW bullshit advocating vouchers for religious schools and Web-based high schools.

Anyhow it made me realize a logical inconsistency in the RW groupthink.

On one hand, RW organizations claim that poor teacher performance is the number one problem in public education and that teachers should be evaluated based solely on student performance. Unions are bad because they prevent the weeding out of bad teachers. They have all sorts of data to support that claim.

On the other hand, all RW organizations will also claim how a stable family environment featuring a mom and a dad who are married to each other provides the best results when raising children. They have all sorts of data to support that claim as well.

But you can't have it both ways. Either its all the teacher's credit, or it's all the teachers fault. You can't say this kid did bad at school because his teachers sucked but this other kid did good at school because he comes from a good family.

But I don't expect any logical consistency from the RW anymore. Too many lies have locked up their positronic brains.

Man I am so sick of teachers being scapegoated by right wing jerks. We don't appreciate and respect our teachers enough in this country.

152 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:10:52pm

re: #124 Gus

You should be embarrassed to disparage what seems to be rather wonderful foundation all for cheap political points.

I'm sure they're delightful people. Well, no, I'm not. Orgs with mission statements like that are a dime a dozen in the Bay Area. Maybe they're great. Maybe they're mostly a vanity press foundation. I'm not interested enough to research them, because I would still cross the street not to be seen with Bernardine Dohrn.

153 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:10:52pm

re: #143 ggt

ahahaha --Did the Lizards call this one or what?

Now for something completely different.

How is the evening going?

Time for bed. A quiet evening reading up on various things and hanging out with the cat.

154 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:14:00pm

re: #153 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Time for bed. A quiet evening reading up on various things and hanging out with the cat.

Cat Overlord enticed Brat Puppy tonite by sitting in the corner and looking vunerable.

Yes, it was an blast to watch.

Told the kid you can't pay for this kind of entertainment.

155 Mich-again  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:19:13pm

re: #151 HappyWarrior

Man I am so sick of teachers being scapegoated by right wing jerks. We don't appreciate and respect our teachers enough in this country.

The new thing the RW is pushing for is cyber-schools. When a kid goes to a cyber school, at least here in MI, the State pays the full amount they would normally give to a school district to the website. It does not save the state any money, it just takes the money away from a school district and gives it to a company running a website.

Odd how the same people who love to bitch about how kids these days spend too much time in front of their computer screens are now pimping for tech companies that exist to make a profit by having kids replace the high school experience with sitting in front of a computer screen for 6 hours a day.

156 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:21:13pm

re: #155 Mich-again

The new thing the RW is pushing for is cyber-schools. When a kid goes to a cyber school, at least here in MI, the State pays the full amount they would normally give to a school district to the website. It does not save the state any money, it just takes the money away from a school district and gives it to a company running a website.

Odd how the same people who love to bitch about how kids these days spend too much time in front of their computer screens are now pimping for tech companies that exist to make a profit by having kids replace the high school experience with sitting in front of a computer screen for 6 hours a day.

That's such a terrible idea on so many levels especially if said child is special ed. I was in some special ed classes. Actual instruction as opposed to computer instruction was infinitely more beneficial.

157 Mich-again  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:30:20pm

re: #156 HappyWarrior

That's such a terrible idea on so many levels especially if said child is special ed. I was in some special ed classes. Actual instruction as opposed to computer instruction was infinitely more beneficial.

Oh its an absolutely horrible idea. Can you imagine what the USA would be like if every single kid stayed home all day and just went to school on the computer without the daily interaction and socialization of going to school and to recess with other kids?

So its a bad idea if every kid does it. But for some inexplicable reason its a good idea if some kids do it? What a crock of BS. I can't think of a worse idea for the USA than to have kids sit at home all day and go to school at a website. But this is what the RW and the GOP and the Tea Party are pimping right now.

158 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:33:40pm

re: #157 Mich-again

Oh its an absolutely horrible idea. Can you imagine what the USA would be like if every single kid stayed home all day and just went to school on the computer without the daily interaction and socialization of going to school and to recess with other kids?

So its a bad idea if every kid does it. But for some inexplicable reason its a good idea if some kids do it? What a crock of BS. I can't think of a worse idea for the USA than to have kids sit at home all day and go to school at a website. But this is what the RW and the GOP and the Tea Party are pimping right now.

You undescored why I am not that high on homeschooling too. I think our schools are where we learn how to socialize with our peers. I took a couple online courses in college and man I hated it. Just hated it. Nothing beat human interaction.

159 Mattand  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:48:26pm

Charles Johnson wrote:

Here’s anti-Muslim hate group leader Pamela Geller on the foiled Al Qaeda airplane bombing plot announced today; to her twisted brain, it’s just more evidence that Obama is weak on terrorism:

Yeah, I'm being an egotistical jerk, but I totally called this earlier.

160 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:53:59pm

re: #158 HappyWarrior

You undescored why I am not that high on homeschooling too. I think our schools are where we learn how to socialize with our peers. I took a couple online courses in college and man I hated it. Just hated it. Nothing beat human interaction.

The fallacy that home-schooled kids are at home all the time and get no social interaction is bizarre to me.

161 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:58:19pm

re: #160 ggt

The fallacy that home-schooled kids are at home all the time and get no social interaction is bizarre to me.

You have to admit that their social interactions with other kids compared to a student enrolled in a conventional school are limited. Maybe I stereotyped here and if I did, I do apologize for that but I still feel homeschooling does limit your social interactions and interactions in general with different types of people. The people I knew whom were home-schooled were sheltered honestly. I know that's not every child who is home-schooled's experience so I apologize for that.

162 Mich-again  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:00:06pm

re: #160 ggt

The fallacy that home-schooled kids are at home all the time and get no social interaction is bizarre to me.

I have coached some home schooled kids in local sports leagues. Pretty much just like all the other kids. Mom and/or Dad might have been kinda nuts but the kids were always pretty cool. If anything they wanted to distance themselves a bit from all that and try to just fit in with the other kids on the team without taking about what happened at their school.

163 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:05:36pm

I guess I stereotyped there. I have to admit. All my experiences with home schooled kids were with children of parents who had a hard time religion not being part of the public school curriculum. And they seemed to be unaware of the different perspectives out there. I am not one who thinks homeschooling should be illegal or even frowned on by society. I would however if I had children choose to send my kids to a regular school given that I think schools help kids learn how to socialize, plus I think kids need to hear stuff from other authority figures that are not their parents, and I think it helps how you learn too. Just my two cents. Honest apology if I did offend.

164 Mich-again  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:08:05pm

re: #161 HappyWarrior

I do apologize for that but I still feel homeschooling does limit your social interactions and interactions in general with different types of people.

I agree with that. I think the more diverse the school population is, the better for your child when they have to go out into the real world someday. What is the point of insulating them from the other young?

165 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:08:28pm

re: #161 HappyWarrior

You have to admit that their social interactions with other kids compared to a student enrolled in a conventional school are limited. Maybe I stereotyped here and if I did, I do apologize for that but I still feel homeschooling does limit your social interactions and interactions in general with different types of people. The people I knew whom were home-schooled were sheltered honestly. I know that's not every child who is home-schooled's experience so I apologize for that.

Perhaps it matters where you live. More isolated areas --yeah the kids wouldn't interact with other kids on a daily basis.

But around here the local community colleges have math and science courses for homeschoolers --there are a lot of things to do. I think the homeschoolers actually have a lot better interaction with the real world. School, IMHO, is a false world with arbitrary rules that put alot of kids at a disadvantage when they have to do anything outside of school. IT can also create artificial social situations that promote/cause bullying that wouldn't happen outside of school.

166 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:10:06pm

re: #164 Mich-again

I agree with that. I think the more diverse the school population is, the better for your child when they have to go out into the real world someday. What is the point of insulating them from the other young?

I grew up in a very diverse area. I think it prepared me well.

167 Mich-again  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:10:13pm

re: #165 ggt

School, IMHO, is a false world with arbitrary rules

That sounds a lot like the real world.

168 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:11:37pm

re: #167 Mich-again

That sounds a lot like the real world.

I didn't particularly enjoy school. I had friends and all, but I would have thrived in a non-traditional school.

Not every shoe fits every foot.

169 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:12:36pm

re: #165 ggt

Perhaps it matters where you live. More isolated areas --yeah the kids wouldn't interact with other kids on a daily basis.

But around here the local community colleges have math and science courses for homeschoolers --there are a lot of things to do. I think the homeschoolers actually have a lot better interaction with the real world. School, IMHO, is a false world with arbitrary rules that put alot of kids at a disadvantage when they have to do anything outside of school. IT can also create artificial social situations that promote/cause bullying that wouldn't happen outside of school.

It seems like it's more regulated out there. The kid I knew who was homeschooled just got some lesson from his mother and then pretty much watched TV. And he didn't really to be seem to be learning much because he didn't believe the earth was millions of years old. Honestly, as someone who had an IEP in school, I think this guy could have benefited from that kind of program knowing that he struggled with some parts of education. I think that's why I have the bias I have.

170 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:14:50pm

re: #168 ggt

I didn't particularly enjoy school. I had friends and all, but I would have thrived in a non-traditional school.

Not every shoe fits every foot.

Now, that I agree with. Honestly, I wish I could have been diagnosed with Aspergers' at a younger age. I probably would have been able to understand myself better. But for much of my primary educational years, I think I tried too hard to be "normal" than just be me. I've grown more social with age and experience. Still need to work on things like eye-contact with strangers though.

171 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:14:51pm

re: #169 HappyWarrior

It seems like it's more regulated out there. The kid I knew who was homeschooled just got some lesson from his mother and then pretty much watched TV. And he didn't really to be seem to be learning much because he didn't believe the earth was millions of years old. Honestly, as someone who had an IEP in school, I think this guy could have benefited from that kind of program knowing that he struggled with some parts of education. I think that's why I have the bias I have.

There are kids who graduate from public high school who didn't learn anything either.

There is no one answer for every kid.

172 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:16:15pm

re: #170 HappyWarrior

Now, that I agree with. Honestly, I wish I could have been diagnosed with Aspergers' at a younger age. I probably would have been able to understand myself better. But for much of my primary educational years, I think I tried too hard to be "normal" than just be me. I've grown more social with age and experience. Still need to work on things like eye-contact with strangers though.

In my perfect world every dog would have a kid and every kid would have an adult in their life who could and would make sure they had the education that fit their needs.

173 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:17:40pm

re: #171 ggt

There are kids who graduate from public high school who didn't learn anything either.

There is no one answer for every kid.

Yeah that's true. I still think for a child with learning disabilities, a public school is the best fit because of the I.E.P program. If I had been sent to a private school, I would have never had that. And as much as I felt at times stupid for having to go to speech therapy, smaller classes, etc. I think it helped me.

174 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:22:36pm

re: #173 HappyWarrior

Yeah that's true. I still think for a child with learning disabilities, a public school is the best fit because of the I.E.P program. If I had been sent to a private school, I would have never had that. And as much as I felt at times stupid for having to go to speech therapy, smaller classes, etc. I think it helped me.

Public School is a great thing --I wholeheartedly support my tax dollars going for education. I just don't think they do a great job with kids at the extreme ends of any spectrum.

I am a highly creative person with a good brain. I could have learned so much more and been emotionally more stable in a different setting than traditional school --public or private. I don't need the rigid structure and having to conform at such an early age made me a ball of nerves--which made learning difficult in some areas.

I think by the teenage years, I would have been fine and ready for the world if allowed to conform to it at my own pace.

175 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:26:21pm

re: #174 ggt

Public School is a great thing --I wholeheartedly support my tax dollars going for education. I just don't think they do a great job with kids at the extreme ends of any spectrum.

I am a highly creative person with a good brain. I could have learned so much more and been emotionally more stable in a different setting than traditional school --public or private. I don't need the rigid structure and having to conform at such an early age made me a ball of nerves--which made learning difficult in some areas.

I think by the teenage years, I would have been fine and ready for the world if allowed to conform to it at my own pace.

Point taken. Anyhow. It would be weird to do the whole thing over again knowing all that we know now about ourselves. It's so weird for me watching my 11 year old brother grow up and relive some of the same experiences I had and have his own unique ones.

176 Nemesis6  Tue, May 8, 2012 1:13:31am

I can't figure out whether she hates Obama or Muslims more... oh wait, she believes the president is one! :D

177 Obdicut  Tue, May 8, 2012 3:27:46am

re: #105 Dark_Falcon

Dark, in that paragraph, he very clearly believes in differences in racial intelligence.

178 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, May 8, 2012 3:37:47am

re: #177 Obdicut

Dark, in that paragraph, he very clearly believes in differences in racial intelligence.

If by that he means average IQs, that is not controversial, though he sure could have phrased it better.

179 Obdicut  Tue, May 8, 2012 3:47:59am

re: #178 May Day! May Day!

If by that he means average IQs, that is not controversial, though he sure could have phrased it better.

I think he's expressing an incoherent view, and the bit about the Bell Curve being a quarter century ahead of it's time is rather telling.

180 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, May 8, 2012 3:53:11am

re: #179 Obdicut

I think he's expressing an incoherent view, and the bit about the Bell Curve being a quarter century ahead of it's time is rather telling.

I interpreted it to mean "we need at least 25 more years of research before coming to the kind of firm conclusions like the BC did" - i.e. it being about the degree of certainty, not the substance of the claims. Although I'm sure he is biased towards the BC interpretation, rather than its opposite.

181 Obdicut  Tue, May 8, 2012 3:55:57am

re: #180 May Day! May Day!

The entire methodology used by the Bell Curve is bullshit, though, with an arbitrary and unscientific definition of 'race' and massively overbroad categories. The Bell Curves premises, as well as its conclusions, are massively flawed in a racist manner.

182 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, May 8, 2012 3:58:55am

re: #181 Obdicut

I don't see him endorsing the BC in this piece. Maybe in others, but I haven't read them.

183 Obdicut  Tue, May 8, 2012 4:00:52am

re: #182 May Day! May Day!

I don't see him endorsing the BC in this piece. Maybe in others, but I haven't read them.

If he says the conclusions of the Bell Curve are a quarter century ahead, without dealing with the fact that the premises of the Bell Curve are wrong in themselves, that's, to me, endorsing the premises of the Bell Curve.

184 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, May 8, 2012 4:02:45am

re: #183 Obdicut

If he says the conclusions of the Bell Curve are a quarter century ahead, without dealing with the fact that the premises of the Bell Curve are wrong in themselves, that's, to me, endorsing the premises of the Bell Curve.

He is saying that the BC authors jumped to conclusions, which is a rebuke to the authors. I don't get more than that from these words.

185 Obdicut  Tue, May 8, 2012 4:06:31am

re: #184 May Day! May Day!

He is saying that the BC authors jumped to conclusions, which is a rebuke to the authors. I don't get more than that from these words.

I do. The problems with the Bell Curve are not limited to, and not even primarily, the claims that it made.

186 Obdicut  Tue, May 8, 2012 4:16:46am

This is also a completely muddled paragraph:

As Pareene is kind enough to note, I consider myself an agnostic on many questions relating to race and genetics. I do strongly believe, like numerous scientists including at least one New York Times contributor, that race is not just a “social construct.” It’s much like color: The categories we impose on it are based on our own perceptions, but there is an underlying reality there that we are perceiving. We have already identified many significant genetic differences between racial groups — for example, skin color, skeletal structure, and some genetic diseases. Gates himself is famous for using genetics to trace people’s ancestry. And if there were no meaningful genetic differences between human populations, the HapMap Project would be a giant waste of time and money.

To me, that's a bunch of semi-contradictory babble defending the idea of 'race' even while admitting that it's perceptual, and innately defending the idea of any genetic differences between human population as supporting the genetic idea of a 'race'.

187 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, May 8, 2012 4:20:18am

re: #185 Obdicut

I do. The problems with the Bell Curve are not limited to, and not even primarily, the claims that it made.

Well, I'm not seeing him saying much else about the BC in this piece, so I don't see him actually endorsing anything. Not putting forth a full-fledged critique of the book except for the rather crucial criticism he makes, does not by itself mean he agrees with the rest. As I said above, he is likely pro-BC biased, given how he writes for NRO, but I can't say much beyond that.

188 SidewaysQuark  Tue, May 8, 2012 8:07:29am

Well, sending Navy SEALS into Pakistan to kill the perpetrator of 9-11 was a sign of Obama's weakness on terrorism, according to these wackos, so this is just the logic train chugging on its natural path down its tracks.

189 carver  Tue, May 8, 2012 8:25:06am

re: #186 Obdicut

IIRC, the genetic difference among all humans is 0.016%. We have a very small variation in our gene pool. Not an evolutionary plus.

190 Eventual Carrion  Tue, May 8, 2012 9:00:32am

re: #136 HappyWarrior

Heh and remember how pissy Boehner got when Obama took them to the campaign trail over this. What do they expect him to do? Not tell America's college students that his opponents prefer being yes men to corporate power over people.

They get more votes when the populous is ignorant of their plans.

191 efuseakay  Tue, May 8, 2012 9:10:06pm

Well Pam... the "bomber" was a double agent who surrendered the bomb willingly to the CIA. Obama's still weak, huh?


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