Army War College: Hamas Isn't So Bad?

Army War College: Hamas Isn’t So Bad?

US NewsJanuary 2009 • Views: 2,121

Here’s a disturbing article at PJ Media by Patrick Poole on the Strategic Collapse at the Army War College.

Two weeks ago, Ricks reported on a new publication by Army War College research professor Sherifa Zuhur on Hamas and Israel that informs readers that Hamas has been misunderstood due to the misreporting by “Israeli and Western sources that villainize the group.” Zuhur concludes that Hamas isn’t so bad after all, so we all just need to get along and embrace the terrorist group through negotiations — a view apparently endorsed by the Army War College when it published her defense of Hamas.

A second post last week, “Fiasco at the Army War College: The Sequel,” records an exchange between Ricks and defense expert and author Mark Perry. Assessing the academic state of affairs at the War College, Perry informed Ricks:

It’s worse than you think. They have curtailed the curriculum so that their students are not exposed to radical Islam. Akin to denying students access to Marx during the Cold War.

This is hardly the first complaint that the military has failed to investigate and assess the strategic writings related to radical Islam and Islamic war doctrine.

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179 comments

phoenixgirl Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:06:30am

that is nothing short of creepy

Peacekeeper Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:06:52am

It's a resume for the Obama Administration.

Erik The Red Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:06:56am

-This is coming from the US Army? G_d help us.

FrogMarch Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:07:09am

The truth.

Leonidas Hoplite Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:07:17am

That sounds very, very disturbing. It that kind of thing that allowed Pearl Harbor and 9/11 to happen.

jcm Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:07:45am

War College...
FAIL!

Son of the Black Dog Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:07:51am

Political Correctness really will be the death of us all. Quite literally.

Ben Hur Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:08:22am

Army War College research professor Sherifa Zuhur

I stopped after that sentence.

Peacekeeper Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:08:25am

Obama will get to promote a lot of generals and admirals on the next eight years and those guys want to make themselves sexy for liberals.

MandyManners Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:08:26am

THIS IS OUR MILITARY!

coquimbojoe Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:08:29am

This is dangerous.

coquimbojoe Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:08:49am

re: #7 Son of the Black Dog

Political Correctness really will be the death of us all. Quite literally.

Amen.

Syrah Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:08:54am

In lest than a week, this type of thinking will become policy.

Peacekeeper Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:09:03am

re: #8 Ben Hur

I stopped after that sentence.

"Mole" was my thought.

MandyManners Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:09:05am

re: #8 Ben Hur

I stopped after that sentence.

I did for a second but, is it certain that this person is Muslim?

Sharmuta Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:09:16am

As late as early 2006, the senior service colleges of the Department of Defense had not incorporated into their curriculum a systematic study of Muhammad as a military or political leader. As a consequence, we still do not have an in-depth understanding of the war-fighting doctrine laid down by Muhammad, how it might be applied today by an increasing number of Islamic groups, or how it might be countered. (”The Sources and Patterns of Terrorism in Islamic Law,” The Vanguard: Journal of the Military Intelligence Corps Association, 11:4 [Fall 2006], p. 10)

Kind of hard to understand the motivation if you don't read up on their ideology.

Bubblehead II Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:09:20am

If you don't provide them with the tools to understand radical islam, how can they be expected to fight it?

Oh, never mind, my bad.

Guanxi88 Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:09:27am

So, now that killing the enemy is off-limits, they move on to the next phase - naming the enemy is now out of bounds.

jcm Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:09:33am

Sherifa Zuhur,

Hamas got 99.9% of what they wanted. The 0.1% they didn't get?
Israel still exists.

What's left to negotiate?

Spiny Norman Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:09:58am

re: #8 Ben Hur

Army War College research professor Sherifa Zuhur

I stopped after that sentence.

A mole reveals himself?

Ron Shaw Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:09:58am

Army War College 'truthers?'

What a crock!

lawhawk Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:11:19am

Sun Tzu is rolling in his grave at 10,000 rpm. So are Eisenhower, Patton, Sherman, and the other famous US generals who knew how to win wars.

Specifically, the target for ire is one Sherifa Zuhur, who is refusing to teach the students at the Army War College the real nature of Hamas - and of the jihad.

I'd suggest that the students and faculty of the Army War College check out LGF or any number of other blogs (mine included) that discuss jihad, the nature of Islamofascism, the role of the Muslim Brotherhood in creating not only Hamas, but al Qaeda and a host of Islamic terrorist groups around the world that seek jihad and the establishment of an Islamic state. The religious doctrines inform the political demands, and jihad is the answer to all that ails the Arab world and beyond.

Failing to acknowledge the nature of jihad means that generals and soldiers, to say nothing of the politicians will be sorely misinformed on how to deal with the terrorists and jihadis; diplomats are already in the sway of this kind of nonsense as they continue to push for ceasefires with Hamas, when there is no way Hamas accepts ceasefires - only hudnas to regroup for the next battle with Israel in their unending war to destroy Israel.

Religious views inform us why Hamas and other jihadi groups do what they do. It informs their political intentions and political Islam. Ignoring the religious demands to jihad means that you don't realize that this isn't an enemy that can be negotiated with.

MandyManners Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:11:19am

Her bio:

Dr. Sherifa Zuhur is Professor of Islamic and Regional Studies. She has lectured and held faculty positions in three countries. These included positions at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, the University of California, Berkeley, UCLA, and the American University in Cairo. Dr. Zuhur's research includes Islamic movements, war and peace in the Middle East, modern Middle Eastern politics, Islamic political and religious philosophy, and social and cultural developments. Dr. Zuhur has published on the emergence of Islamist terrorist movements, the insurgency and intersectarian conflict in Iraq, Shi'a influence in the Middle East, the Islamic state in Iran, Islamic warfare and the new jihad, the security situation in a changing Saudi Arabia, democratization, security and nationalism in the Middle East. She has intensively studied Islamist movements and interviewed their membership and leaders since 1980 when she was a graduate student in Egypt and this work formed the basis of her first book. She is a published author of ten books and monographs, and more than 47 journal articles and book chapters. Dr. Zuhur holds B.A. degrees in Political Science and Arabic and Arabic Literature, a Master's in Islamic Studies, and a Ph.D. in Middle Eastern History, all from UCLA. She also completed the Master's level coursework in political science at the American University in Cairo.

FrogMarch Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:11:32am

As the left-wing democrats take more power and control - the denial of radical Islam will become the norm. It's as if Michael Moore is in charge.

Sharmuta Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:11:35am

One effort to remedy this strategic deficiency identified by Gawthrop was undertaken by Joint Chiefs of Staff analyst Stephen Coughlin, who published his finding in his master’s thesis at the National Defense Intelligence University, “To Our Great Detriment”: Ignoring What Extremists Say About Jihad. In his thesis, Coughlin examines texts from multiple schools of Islamic jurisprudence to evaluate the respective traditions on jihad and their contemporary use by Islamic terrorists, concluding that failing to investigate these sources has left our military “disarmed in the war of ideas.”
Coughlin’s thesis had barely seen the light of day before he was sacked from his position with the Joint Chiefs, having running afoul of another Pentagon official, Hesham Islam, a top-ranked Muslim advisor to Deputy Defense Secretary Gordon England, who took issue with Coughlin’s academic analysis.

Another issue that won't be solved for at least 4 years- wonderful.

J.S. Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:11:49am

Enemy infiltrators at the college? that's not reassuring...

yma o hyd Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:12:05am

Here is the sub-title of that article:
'A faculty member publicly defends Hamas while students are not allowed to read texts on militant Islam.'
(Emphasis by me.)

Students are not 'allowed' to read such texts?
How can any academy justify not allowing students to read texts?

This looks like indoctrination, not like studying in a free society.

I hope I'm wrong ...

jaunte Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:12:09am

I hope that intelligent officers are ignoring the AWC and studying radical Islamist thought on their own. As a policy matter allowing this gap in our knowledge is a dangerous abdication of duty by both the Joint Chiefs and the Secretary of Defense.

jcm Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:12:11am

re: #10 MandyManners

THIS IS OUR MILITARY!

The is the War College, part of the Five Sided Wind Tunnel, attending War College is a check box to higher ranks.

The guys on the pointing end of things know different.

Peacekeeper Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:12:24am

re: #15 MandyManners

I did for a second but, is it certain that this person is Muslim?

No. nor is it certain that his exotic muslim sounding name was the reason they hired him- to have exotic muslim sounding names on the role. But we know the truth don't we?

phoenixgirl Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:13:22am

re: #17 Bubblehead II

If you don't provide them with the tools to understand radical islam, how can they be expected to fight it?

Oh, never mind, my bad.

what's to fight? everythings great, no need to worry, keep moving, nothing to see here....

gander Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:13:24am

This does not bode well for our children.

MandyManners Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:13:25am

Synopsis of HAMAS and Israel: Conflicting Strategies of Group-Based Politics.

Efforts to separate HAMAS from its popular support and network of social and charitable organizations have not been effective in destroying the organization, nor in eradicating the will to resist among a fairly large segment of the Palestinian population. It is important to consider this Islamist movement in the context of a region-wide phenomenon of similar movements with local goals, which can be persuaded to relinquish violence or which could become more violent. Certainly an orientation to HAMAS and its base must be factored into new and more practical and effective approaches to peacemaking in the region. At the same time, HAMAS offers a fascinating glimpse of the dynamics of strategic reactions and the modification of Israeli impulses towards aggressive deterrence, as well as the evolution in the Islamist movements’ planning and operations. The Palestinian-Israeli conflict bears similarities to a long-standing civil conflict, even as it has sparked inter-Palestinian hostilities in its most recent phase.

Syrah Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:13:31am

re: #24 FrogMarch

As the left-wing democrats take more power and control - the denial of radical Islam will become the norm. It's as if Michael Moore is in charge.

Michael Moore is the Leni Riefenstahl of the Modern Democrat Party.

FightingBack Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:13:35am

re: #23 MandyManners

Does she wear the bag?
Does she want to?

VegasRick Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:13:39am

re: #14 Peacekeeper

"Mole" was my thought.

>"MAsshole" was mine

notutopia Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:13:39am

Here are two of Professor Sherifa Zuhur's books on web if you'd like to read some of his other works.
[Link: books.google.com...]

[Link: books.google.com...]

2MurthasRight Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:13:44am

I wonder if we are also not teaching about ~~radical Islam~~ ROP at our services academies.

Peacekeeper Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:13:52am

re: #30 Peacekeeper

No. nor is it certain that his exotic muslim sounding name was the reason they hired him- to have exotic muslim sounding names on the role. But we know the truth don't we?

he's a she? twofer.

MandyManners Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:13:56am

re: #30 Peacekeeper

No. nor is it certain that his exotic muslim sounding name was the reason they hired him- to have exotic muslim sounding names on the role. But we know the truth don't we?

It's a she.

spirochete Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:14:15am

re: #28 jaunte

I hope that intelligent officers are ignoring the AWC and studying radical Islamist thought on their own. As a policy matter allowing this gap in our knowledge is a dangerous abdication of duty by both the Joint Chiefs and the Secretary of Defense.

They are.

Peacekeeper Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:14:41am

re: #36 VegasRick

>"MAsshole" was mine

that's why you don't work at the State Department.

FightingBack Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:15:12am

re: #40 MandyManners

It's a she.

One of four wives?

opinionated Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:15:13am

Sherifa Zuhur

Irish, I presume! Or maybe Swedish.

dhg4 Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:15:20am

re: #15 MandyManners

I did for a second but, is it certain that this person is Muslim?

Look at her CV.

She has intensively studied Islamist movements and interviewed their membership and leaders since 1980 when she was a graduate student in Egypt and this work formed the basis of her first book. She is a published author of ten books and monographs, and more than 47 journal articles and book chapters. Dr. Zuhur holds B.A. degrees in Political Science and Arabic and Arabic Literature, a Master's in Islamic Studies, and a Ph.D. in Middle Eastern History, all from UCLA. She also completed the Master's level coursework in political science at the American University in Cairo.

That suggests that she's Egyptian. I'd also guess that she's not a Copt.

notutopia Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:15:23am

re: #37 notutopia

Here are two of Professor Sherifa Zuhur's books on web if you'd like to read some of her other works.
[Link: books.google.com...]

[Link: books.google.com...]

midwestgak Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:15:23am

re: #23 MandyManners

Great post!

Guanxi88 Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:15:59am

re: #34 Syrah

Michael Moore is the Leni Riefenstahl of the Modern Democrat Party.

Nah! Leni had talent, at least.

MandyManners Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:16:14am

Synopsis of Precision in the Global War on Terror: Inciting Muslims through the War of Ideas

Never before have Americans paid so much attention to Islam and Muslim ideology. Although efforts have been made to separate mainsteam views from extremist principles, Muslims feel that many of their basic beliefs are under attack in the ongoing war of ideas. The author explores why, surveying a broad swath of accusations and efforts to change Muslim and Islamist ideas and institutions.

albusteve Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:16:21am

re: #24 FrogMarch

As the left-wing democrats take more power and control - the denial of radical Islam will become the norm. It's as if Michael Moore is in charge.

someone posted that a few protesters in America screaming to send Jews to the ovens is really no big deal...willful ignorance works both ways...I'm very pessimistic these days

VegasRick Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:16:28am

re: #44 opinionated

Irish, I presume! Or maybe Swedish.

Druish.

wrenchwench Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:16:29am

re: #23 MandyManners

She has intensively studied Islamist movements and interviewed their membership and leaders since 1980 when she was a graduate student in Egypt and this work formed the basis of her first book.

Knows some interesting people really well, it looks like.

lawhawk Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:16:50am

OT:
Reprinted in entirety from Instapundit:

i LOVE THIS CORRECTION FROM THE WASHINGTON POST: “A Jan. 7 Page One article incorrectly described current and former intelligence officials as believing that the CIA suffers from incompetent leadership and low morale. The sentence should have said that the officials expressed resentment about such suggestions.”
Good thing they were professional journalists and not untrained Joe-the-Plumber types or they might have really screwed up the reporting! (Via Sam Dealey.)

Gee, get the entire thrust of the article wrong why don't you? No wonder they're journalists. They are the deciders. Decidedly wrong.

SFGoth Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:16:56am

Students at the Army War College -- i.e., field grade officers -- are *not allowed* to read books on militant islam? WTF? They're not allowed to fart in the shower either?

Kosh's Shadow Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:16:57am

re: #23 MandyManners

Dr. Sherifa Zuhur is Professor of ~~Islamic and Regional Studies~~ Taqqiya.

Fixed it

Peacekeeper Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:16:57am

re: #33 MandyManners

Synopsis of HAMAS and Israel: Conflicting Strategies of Group-Based Politics.

Efforts to separate HAMAS from its popular support and network of social and charitable organizations have not been effective in destroying the organization, nor in eradicating the will to resist among a fairly large segment of the Palestinian population. It is important to consider this Islamist movement in the context of a region-wide phenomenon of similar movements with local goals, which can be persuaded to relinquish violence or which could become more violent. Certainly an orientation to HAMAS and its base must be factored into new and more practical and effective approaches to peacemaking in the region. At the same time, HAMAS offers a fascinating glimpse of the dynamics of strategic reactions and the modification of Israeli impulses towards aggressive deterrence, as well as the evolution in the Islamist movements’ planning and operations. The Palestinian-Israeli conflict bears similarities to a long-standing civil conflict, even as it has sparked inter-Palestinian hostilities in its most recent phase.

Shit. How about: HAMAS is an Iranian funded terror gang that seized Gaza by murder and assasination of Arafat's terror gang. HAMAS will exist as long as Iran does.

Guanxi88 Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:17:00am

re: #51 VegasRick

Druish.

Funny, she doesn't look Druish.

MandyManners Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:17:36am

re: #45 dhg4

That suggests that she's Egyptian. I'd also guess that she's not a Copt.

Looking at her bio-page, if she's a Muslim, she might be one of those elusive moderates.

Leonidas Hoplite Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:17:43am

This is seriously awful. Considering how long it took for Bush to find a general that figured out how to fight the enemy at hand (presumably Patraeus was not brainwashed by this crap) it stands to reason that in the future we will have no one who will be able to lead our troops against the Islamists. We'll have lots of McClellans and no Shermans or Grants. Very scary.

DeafDog Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:18:00am

I have to offer a different view.

1. We should want the soldiers reading things like the piece by Sherifa Zuhur. They must understand the enemy in order to defeat it. Patreus the author of the counter-insurgency strategy - would be pleased.

2. The charge that "They have curtailed the curriculum so that their students are not exposed to radical Islam" is awful. That is just crazy and not only would past leaders be rolling over in their graves, Petreus would go ballistic. That charge is from a blog poster. We need a better source. I don't believe it.

jwb7605 Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:18:09am

Who is Army War College research professor Sherifa Zuhur, or more importantly, how much "clout" does she have?

Is this the "Ward Churchill" type of professor?

I read the article Charles references before coming here, and I remain confused about the significance of this event.

I also don't know much (if anything) about the Army War College's impact on the actual Military. Wikipedia does state that

The War College is a split-functional institution. While a great deal of emphasis is placed on research, students are also instructed in leadership, strategy, and joint-service/international operations.

... which, again, muddies the waters from my perspective.

Son of the Black Dog Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:18:16am

re: #29 jcm

The is the War College, part of the Five Sided Wind Tunnel, attending War College is a check box to higher ranks.

The guys on the pointing end of things know different.

Yeah, but then you get somebody like the politically correct Weasley Clark, who kisses enough behinds to get himself promoted into a command with national policy making input. Bingo, the camel's nose is in the tent.

/no pun intended

phoenixgirl Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:18:34am

her she is

opinionated Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:18:41am

re: #23 MandyManners

Dr. Sherifa Zuhur is Professor of Islamic and Regional Studies.

First thing I think of, that gal should be lecturing at the Army War College.

We are so screwed.

spirochete Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:19:45am

re: #46 notutopia

Her's a quote from the first of those two monographs you turned up (page 2):

"It is important that the family leadership determine succession without external pressure"

Wonderful allies we got there.

jaunte Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:19:51am

re: #37 notutopia

Take a look at her recommendations on pages 48-50.
They look remarkably like what a lobbyist for the Saudi royal family would recommend.

[Link: books.google.com...]

jwb7605 Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:20:02am

re: #26 J.S.

Enemy infiltrators at ~~the college~~[insert College name here]? that's not reassuring...

fixed.

MandyManners Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:20:10am

Read the links I've provided to the Strategic Studies Institute.

Sharmuta Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:20:15am

But returning to Sun Tzu’s maxim, perhaps the root of our military’s strategic schizophrenia is not so much about our refusal to understand our enemies as much as it is a failure to understand ourselves. As a nation, we no longer have a sense of who we are, what we believe, or even why we fight. At the height of World War II, would a faculty member at the Army War College have even considered attempting to defend Nazi fascism or Japanese imperialism, as War College professor Sherifa Zuhur has now done with Hamas? That is a fitting testimony of how far we are from both aspects of Sun Tzu’s counsel.

Mr. Poole really hit the nail on the head here. Far too many of our fellow Americans think America's the problem. They're convinced we fight because we're fascist imperialists.

reine.de.tout Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:21:37am

re: #50 albusteve

someone posted that a few protesters in America screaming to send Jews to the ovens is really no big deal...willful ignorance works both ways...I'm very pessimistic these days

Who posted that, and where?

phoenixgirl Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:21:57am

re: #63 phoenixgirl

her she is

according to her, hamas is really a great group, they get a long with everyone except israel........

spirochete Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:22:06am

re: #65 spirochete

Her's a quote from the first of those two monographs you turned up (page 2):

"It is important that the family leadership determine succession without external pressure"

Wonderful allies we got there.

Oh, I should mention that this refers to the Saudi royal family.

FrogMarch Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:22:18am

re: #34 Syrah

Michael Moore is the Leni Riefenstahl of the Modern Democrat Party.

Indeed.

FightingBack Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:23:17am

re: #71 phoenixgirl

Something about the way that she pronounces her consonants is disturbing.
Can you say "shibboleth"?

phoenixgirl Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:24:13am

re: #74 FightingBack

Something about the way that she pronounces her consonants is disturbing.
Can you say "shibboleth"?

i wonder if she was born with that name.....

Muadib Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:25:43am

Enemies of freedom spreading like a virus.

jwb7605 Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:25:52am

re: #71 phoenixgirl

according to her, hamas is really a great group, they get a long with everyone except israel........

If you stop to think about that statement, it's getting harder and harder to refute factually. Britain, France, Norway, ... want me to keep going?

When I read or hear stuff like that, I automatically replace "get along with" to a mental "have infiltrated and subverted the leadership of".

looking closely Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:26:13am

You'd think the war college would be a bit more insulated from typical PC lefty academicians, but apparently not.

Its no surprise that this woman holds the views she does, they're par for the academic course. She holds great credentials, so of course on paper she'd be a good hire.

/She's the "expert" with fluent Arabic and a zillion degrees, and if she says Hamas is misunderstood, how are the Neanderthals at the war college to know any different?

FightingBack Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:26:27am

"...proclaimed Jihad as the vehicle for liberation."

FightingBack Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:27:36am

"...Hamas attracted many educated groups...an entire women's movement within it."

FightingBack Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:28:11am

"Has offered a truce to israel many, many times..."

phoenixgirl Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:28:49am

omg....she said hamas wants to reconcile with fatah because they have the same aim.....drum roll...............to alieviate the palistinian situation........

i know you were all thinking it was something else!/

Peacekeeper Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:28:52am

Ever get the idea that men like Patton, MacArthur, Sherman, Grant or even Washington would ever make it past Lt Colonel in today's army?

Prikolno Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:28:59am

Did not that professor see this video yet ? Let me guess, those are " not real hamas" or that does not really matter for her/him.

UFO TOFU Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:29:11am

re: #69 Sharmuta

That paragraph struck me too.

FightingBack Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:29:45am

"Its discourse also concerns an Ultimate Solution."

[deleted] Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:30:17am

opinionated Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:30:27am

Hamas is an Islamic fundamentalist anti Semitic organization. It is not even a nationalistic "liberation" movement like the old PLO, for example. It's sole purpose is the destruction of Israel. It does not even pretend to have any other goal. The creation of another Arab state is not so much of interest to them and peace outside of Islam is an impossibility.

Granting them any legitimacy is subscribing to their agenda. One may be socially constrained from shouting "I hate Jews, I want them dead and I want Israel destroyed". But that is exactly the hidden- and not so hidden sentiments- of anyone who favors Hamas in any way.

reine.de.tout Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:30:48am

re: #87 buzzsawmonkey

If she's not a Copt, she's a robber.

*groan*

FightingBack Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:31:07am

"A solution cannot exclude ....the status of Jerusalem"

FightingBack Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:32:25am

"There are members...who do not support a two state solution."

Peacekeeper Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:32:43am

some things in life you can not measure by degrees.....

WriterMom Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:32:49am

re: #9 Peacekeeper

make themselves sexy for liberals

I just threw up a little.

BEHEAD THOSE WHO PUT SEXY AND LIBERALS IN THE SAME POST.

Leonidas Hoplite Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:34:25am

re: #83 Peacekeeper

Ever get the idea that men like Patton, MacArthur, Sherman, Grant or even Washington would ever make it past Lt Colonel in today's army?

Yep. I recently read a couple of books on fighting terrorism that were written by colonels and I wondered if they were passed over for promotion because their ideas were not in keeping with Pentagon group-think. That said, there could be lots of other reasons they weren't promoted too, but it does make you wonder.

WriterMom Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:34:30am

re: #63 phoenixgirl

Here's her WACKADEMIC "CREDENTIALS".

WriterMom Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:37:15am

OOOOOOOOOOOOOH:

This is a good one: Obama Appears Ready to Talk to Hamas

SNIP:

Direct talks with the Palestinian political group are a departure from an isolationist policy advocated for the past eight years by President George W. Bush. Many Middle East experts say the move is long overdue.

“I am hoping Obama will really do that. You have to be able to make contact with the other side,” says Sherifa Zuhur, author of an influential paper published by the US Army War College that advocates open communication between the US and the Palestinian opposition group.

SNIP

Zuhur says the long-held American view that “you don’t negotiate with terrorists” is an unreasonable diplomatic stance that has been forced upon US policy-makers by “Israel and the Israeli lobby.”

opinionated Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:37:16am

Bin Ladin released a tape today in support of Hamas and called for (another) Jihad against Israel.

Remember bin Ladin? He was in the news several years ago. He seems to have been forgotten.

Simple question for any American who may faintly remember Bin Ladin.

If Bin Ladin supports Hamas, how can any American with a shred of decency- and foreigners friendly to America- not wholeheartedly support Israel and wish to see Bin Ladin's allies and soul mates - Hamas - totally destroyed?

abolitionist Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:38:17am

Hamas Charter
The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas)
18 August 1988

Hamas Principles

The principles of the Hamas are stated in their Covenant or Charter, given in full below. Following are highlights.

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

phoenixgirl Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:42:05am

alumna profile UCLA

100

[deleted] Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:43:09am

101

J.S. Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:43:46am

re: #60 DeafDog

You are making a number of errors. First, the pro-Hamas "professor", Sherifa Zuhur, is employed as a "research professor" at US Army War College. Do you understand this? She has written a monograph about HAMAS (how wonderful the organizatin is, etc.) and it's been published by the SSI (that's the Strategic Studies Institute, one of the Institutes of the US Army War College.) Secondly, the comment that the College does not permit discussion or information about radical Islam comes NOT from some "blog poster" but from an expert in the filed -- his name is Perry...(Perry appears on CNN, etc.) look it up.

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[deleted] Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:44:38am

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[deleted] Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:45:12am

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jwb7605 Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:46:32am

re: #99 phoenixgirl

alumna profile UCLA

I actually studied four different disciplines at UCLA: international relations, political theory, and early on, the very same strategic concepts found here; then Islamic studies and Middle Eastern history, and I read a lot of anthropology. Also, my interests in music and culture led me outside the university environment, and that breadth and familiarity with different types of communities in the Middle East has been helpful.

Explains things for me. Reworded "I used to hang out with dope smoking hippies, anarchists, and terrorists".
Thanks for the link.

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[deleted] Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:49:10am

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jwb7605 Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:51:40am

re: #105 Iron Fist

Patton would have kept being busted back to private. When he wasn't in the brig. And he might have gotten a Section 8 discharge if he gave his "use the enemy's intestines to grease the treads of my tanks" speech.

Nobody anywhere can make the kind of speech Patton did without being shouted down by the "Religion of Peace" blather.

Movies like "Apocalypse Now" pretty well took care of public opinion on the matter.

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crosspatch Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:52:22am

Remember, this is the Washington Post doing the reporting. They would have an interest in portraying "strategic collapse" in the war on terror. I would take it with a grain of salt and I wouldn't be surprised if some of the writing has twisted or distorted what the "journalist" was told during various interviews. The Post is primarily a propaganda outlet and one should keep that in mind when reading their material.

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MJBrutus Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:55:06am

It's official. We have finally arrived in bizzaro world.

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J.S. Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:56:27am

re: #103 buzzsawmonkey

Wiki has an article on the "US Army War College" and "well-known alumni" -- listed for 2001 is "Brigadier General Isfand Yar Pataudi (Pakistan Army)"...Guess that should answer any questions about how to win the WoT...

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J.S. Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:58:01am

re: #107 crosspatch

No, I believe you're wrong. You can get the pro-Hamas monograph written by Zahur for free from the Strategic Studies Institute. Read the monograph and the glowing/gushing praises for HAMAS...then, get back to us.

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[deleted] Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:58:28am

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[deleted] Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:00:51am

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Kenneth Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:01:28am

re: #96 WriterMom

Meanwhile, Hillary disagrees:

Hillary Clinton, president-elect Barack Obama's choice for secretary of state, ruled out talks with Hamas yesterday during Senate confirmation hearings.

Despite Mr. Obama's widely praised campaign promise that his administration would usher in a new era in which the United States "must talk to its enemies," the former first lady said there will be no dialogue with Hamas, the Islamic group regarded as a terrorist organization by the United States, Canada and most other Western countries.

Mr. Obama said repeatedly during the election campaign that he wants the United States to open talks with hostile regimes such as Iran and Cuba - although he stopped short of suggesting talks with groups such as Hamas, which won parliamentary elections in Gaza three years ago.

"We cannot negotiate with Hamas until it renounces violence, recognizes Israel and agrees to abide by past agreements. That is just, for me, an absolute," Ms. Clinton said, echoing the long-standing policy of the Bush and previous U.S. administrations.

Note the pro-lefty spin in the second paragraph... "Obama's widely praised campaign promise that his administration would usher in a new era in which the United States "must talk to its enemies," "

Praised?!? Obama was slaughtered for that idiotic statement, even by Hillary, now his Sec of State.

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zeir Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:02:57am

This is shocking, Charles. Thank you for posting it.

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DeafDog Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:03:59am

re: #101 J.S.

You are making a number of errors. First, the pro-Hamas "professor", Sherifa Zuhur, is employed as a "research professor" at US Army War College. Do you understand this? She has written a monograph about HAMAS (how wonderful the organizatin is, etc.) and it's been published by the SSI (that's the Strategic Studies Institute, one of the Institutes of the US Army War College.) Secondly, the comment that the College does not permit discussion or information about radical Islam comes NOT from some "blog poster" but from an expert in the filed -- his name is Perry...(Perry appears on CNN, etc.) look it up.

I don't see it that way, but I'm willing to be convinced if you can make a good enough argument.

According to Counterinsurgency, which is the primary text at the War College, it is essential to understand the narrative underlying any insurgency to conduct operations against that insurgency.

Excuse me if I don't give more credence to a CNN 'expert.' Since when is a CNN source accurate or unbiased?

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akak Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:04:23am

When it comes to terrorists I much prefer the shoot first ask me later pretzel twisting approach.

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lobo91 Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:04:53am

re: #61 jwb7605

I also don't know much (if anything) about the Army War College's impact on the actual Military.

Just about 100% of all general/flag officers in the US military (with the possible exception of JAG, medical, chaplains, etc) attend one of the senior service colleges (the Army War College, or one of the other services' equivalents) as colonels (or sometimes as LTCs).

Having completed the US Army Sergeants Major Academy in the last year (the equivalent course on the enlisted side), I can tell you that there is absolutely zero discussion of Islam (radical or otherwise) in the course.

This does not, however, mean that nobody is studying these topics on their own, or that there is no discussion at lower levels. I personally taught an NCO professional development class on the subject in my unit last month.

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jwb7605 Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:07:12am

re: #115 DeafDog

[SNIP]
Excuse me if I don't give more credence to a CNN 'expert.' Since when is a CNN source accurate or unbiased?

They always ask their source to validate the report accuracy.
Since veracity is checked at the source, you can be sure everything is unbiased.

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jwb7605 Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:08:32am

re: #117 lobo91

Just about 100% of all general/flag officers in the US military (with the possible exception of JAG, medical, chaplains, etc) attend one of the senior service colleges (the Army War College, or one of the other services' equivalents) as colonels (or sometimes as LTCs).

Having completed the US Army Sergeants Major Academy in the last year (the equivalent course on the enlisted side), I can tell you that there is absolutely zero discussion of Islam (radical or otherwise) in the course.

This does not, however, mean that nobody is studying these topics on their own, or that there is no discussion at lower levels. I personally taught an NCO professional development class on the subject in my unit last month.

Did you just say that everything worth knowing is taught off the record?
That's the way I read it.

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akak Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:09:52am

re: #119 jwb7605

Did you just say that everything worth knowing is taught off the record?
That's the way I read it.

Just don't say jihad.......oops

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suitepotato Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:10:32am

The War College is not now for certain and never has been from all accounts a brain trust. Ultimately it does not matter what they learn there so long as they can follow the chain of command. It is what the imbeciles at the top who have free reign to give orders believe. Right now, we're about to receive one who wants to talk to our enemies who only want to blow us and our allies away. Good luck with that Bareback. Let me know later on how whispering to a rabid pitbull straining at his chain went too. I hear conversation with entities thoroughly wanting your blood works really well.

We are so screwed for the next several years. Time to roll up the sleeves and hit the keyboards...

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J.S. Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:14:24am

re: #115 DeafDog

Why would the US Army War College employ a "research professor" who writes pro-HAMAS monographs? How does reading pro-HAMAS propaganda further an understanding of radical Islam? the link you've provided to that document is a US Army Field manual written, in part by General Petraeus -- published by the US Army (not the US Army War College). I'll look up more info about Perry.

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vagabond trader Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:15:34am

Nothing to see here, just warming up for the National Service kiddies.

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TezDhaar Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:16:02am

re: #84 Prikolno

Interesting video. Thanks for posting.

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akak Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:20:56am

Petraeus proposes talking to Bathiists, Taliban why would he not do the same with Hamas or Hezbashitzah.

He's way above my pay grade, so I won't criticise too much - worked well
in Iraq. Think Iraq issue is still a powder keg though because it doesn't yet deal with Islam. A jihadi with any sense would lay low until Bush is gone.

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Oh no...Sand People! Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:23:07am

A little taqiyya never hurt anyone...right?
/

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DeafDog Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:24:11am

re: #122 J.S.

Why would the US Army War College employ a "research professor" who writes pro-HAMAS monographs? How does reading pro-HAMAS propaganda further an understanding of radical Islam? the link you've provided to that document is a US Army Field manual written, in part by General Petraeus -- published by the US Army (not the US Army War College). I'll look up more info about Perry.

I know what I posted. I suggest you peruse it/ More people need to understand COIN operations, since that's what the USA is in the midst of, and not make references to WWII on how to win the GWOT.

The purspose would be to understand the enemy narrative. If there is evidence that this person collaborates with Hamas, that's a problem. If the person is simply a Hamas sympathizer, he/she is a useful idiot for us - providing folks a chance to understand where the bad guys are coming from.

BTW - Lobo91, above, confirmed that War college does not have a curriculum on radical islam, but that education is provided in other forums.

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jwb7605 Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:24:37am

re: #125 akak

Petraeus proposes talking to Bathiists, Taliban why would he not do the same with Hamas or Hezbashitzah.

He's way above my pay grade, so I won't criticise too much - worked well
in Iraq. Think Iraq issue is still a powder keg though because it doesn't yet deal with Islam. A jihadi with any sense would lay low until Bush is gone.

Baathists and Taliban were organized political parties, and "made the trains run on time" to use the analogy.
Hamas and Hizbullah visibly cross the dotted line into religion world, and, at best, are anarchists.

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lobo91 Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:29:57am

re: #128 jwb7605

Baathists and Taliban were organized political parties, and "made the trains run on time" to use the analogy.
Hamas and Hizbullah visibly cross the dotted line into religion world, and, at best, are anarchists.

The Ba'ath party was a secular political party in Iraq, yes.

But the Taliban was anything but. It was (and is) primarily an Islamist movement. Afghanistan under the Taliban didn't even have the kind of sham elections they had in Iraq under Saddam (where he received 100% of the vote).

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crosspatch Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:37:03am

re: #110 J.S.

I am not saying they didn't publish it. I am saying that there are likely to be all sorts of different points of view and hers is only one of them. The fact that the work is published there sort of belies the reporter's picture of bias.

Also, I don't think it is all that important to have a "deep" ideological understanding of radical Islam by the officer corps or troops in the field than it was required for the US troops to have a "deep understanding" of Shinto to fight the Japanese in WWII. In fact, very few of the hardcore are really in it for deep ideological reasons. Most are in it out of fear or for personal advancement. They know which side of the bread has the butter on it.

These same people would have been telling us that we would need some deep understanding of radical Islam in order to defeat the Iraqi insurgency too. You don't because most of the people are not radical Islamists. You need to know about Islam enough to understand the basic culture and to know what is and is not going to be tolerated by the locals. Having men searching women, for example, might turn the population against you, etc. But you don't need to sit down and read every screed by every "Radical Islamist" in order to build a winning strategy and you don't need to engage them in debates of theology or doctrine. You need to kill them before they kill you for the most radical elements and for the rank-and-file population you simply show them that life is better without the radicals than with them. The radicals themselves tend to do that part for you.

Who eats better tonight, the Palestinians of Gaza or the Palestinians of the West Bank? Whose children are healthier. Which population has more jobs, better jobs? We don't need to "understand" Hamas' doctrine at a deeper level. You need to understand how they are organized, what their political doctrine. They are mostly a political organization that USES Islam to appear "good" and gain a following. Their practices are quite counter to their own religion of which they would hold themselves to be some sacred protectors. There is no need to indoctrinate yourself in their ideology and once you begin to engage them in debate, you have automatically lost because you are an outsider and will never win, even if you are right.

I have been reading material out out of the War College for several years concerning Islamic thought. They have published all kinds of stuff for years. This notion that there isn't any material on Islam is just fantasy. The notion that we should be using the term hirabah rather than jihad because jihad to a Muslim means something good (sort of like calling a Christian "righteous" as an insult or saying "we shall defeat the righteous" and see the reaction that would bring in Western culture) while hirabah is what those terrorists are actually doing and is basically their word for "terrorist". That came out of the War College back in 2002, I think.

The article is crap.

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Kenneth Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:39:59am

re: #128 jwb7605

Baathists and Taliban were organized political parties, and "made the trains run on time" to use the analogy.
Hamas and Hizbullah visibly cross the dotted line into religion world, and, at best, are anarchists.

With respect, my friend, you have that completely wrong.

In Islam, there is no distinction between religion & politics, or between the state and the mosque. The Taliban is not an organized political party in any sense of the word. It is an extremist religious movement, committed to obtaining and maintaining power by brute force with the political goal of establishing a "pure Islamic state". Hezbollah (Shiite) & Hamas (Sunni) are Islamist political parties. They aim to establish a pure Islamic states. Politically, their style is fascist, with Islam as the group identity , not ethnicity.

The Baathists were the unusual one in the group: the were an overtly secular, pan-Arabic fascist political party.

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J.S. Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:42:57am

re: #127 DeafDog

I think reading the free PDF document provided by the US Army War College's "Professor" Zuhur should be sufficient.

One more time -- explain how precisely having a pro-HAMAS advocate (and no, I did NOT say, "collaborator") provide a narrative to "understand the enemy." Explain, please, just how that works.

A HAMAS propagandist will routinely allege that HAMAS provides "humanitarian aid" and thus gains the sympathies of the Palis...that's the standard boiler-plate. If, however, you pursue this, you'll discover that HAMAS (which operates like a Mafia) also expects reciprocity (and, "no," it's not provided "for free" -- there's a catch -- so when HAMAS comes calling, you'd better be ready to jump to their tune, and/or die for Dear Leader.)

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J.S. Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:51:18am

re: #130 crosspatch

I beg to differ. These are publications by The Strategic Studies Institute -- read the Institute's alleged "mandate." Its mandate is to "influence policy." And, I'd say, their current pet policy appears to be to have HAMAS normalized. (The info I am unable to obtain is just what, precisely, is Zuhur's role at the US Army War College -- is she an "insider" -- some evidence exists for that -- or is she an "outsider"? In other words, is this pro HAMAS instructor teaching classes at the US Army War College or not?)

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crosspatch Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:53:14am

Our military produces boatloads of stuff on Islam. I would expect a general officer to know what Hizb ut-Tahrir is, where they came from, where they are active (

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crosspatch Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:01:11am

re: #133 J.S.

Cripes, I bungled that last comment, meant to provide a link to this article and mention that there are also a Naval War College and an Air University.

Yes, I would say this person appears to be sympathetic to Hamas. I also think everyone exposed would know that, too. I am just saying that the notion that the military isn't getting any information at the strategic level on radical Islam is silly. The article wants to portray our military as broken. (as usual for the Post).

It is the same crap the media was doing during the Carter administration ... America is weak, our influence is waning, we can't do anything right, everything we know is wrong ...

This is all about preparing the American psyche for defeat in Afghanistan when Obama decided to run away from that battle.

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DeafDog Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:03:35am

re: #132 J.S.

I'm not defending Hamas.

I am defending having someone on staff advocating an Arab point of view. Should it be the Arab point of view be the only one taught? Probably not. But it seems, based on lobo91's comments that there are other venues where the Arab thuggishness is explored.

If you can't understand the value in the Military - many of whom are not exposed to the Arab history in grade school - need to understand their enemy, then you need to learn more about Counterinsurgency, which is why I posted the link in #115.

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Don Miguel Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:05:53am

I hope that intelligent officers are ignoring the AWC and studying radical Islamist thought on their own.

We have a plethora of officers who have first hand experience with the jihadists. They are well aware of the nature of the enemy regardless of the mush coming out of military eggheads.

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crosspatch Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:06:07am

I would say that we have more people in our armed services, foreign service and intelligence community that speak the languages, know the histories, understand the cultures of those regions of the world than we have ever had before. The article is propaganda designed to sow seeds of doom in people's minds. I am not buying it until I am able to get an alternative point of view to compare it with. This is a one sided piece that is one of at least two such pieces by the same outlet that goes in the same direction. I smell agenda and not objective reporting.

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ORD neighbor Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:11:20am

Danger from the inside and at the top.

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Spiny Norman Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:12:55am

re: #56 Peacekeeper

Shit. How about: HAMAS is an Iranian funded terror gang that seized Gaza by murder and assasination of Arafat's terror gang. HAMAS will exist as long as Iran does.

Hamas vs Fatah = the Outfit (Al Capone) vs the Northsiders (Bugs Moran).

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J.S. Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:14:53am

re: #135 crosspatch

Yes. I agree with you (especially about the media wanting to encourage the claim that the US military is already "defeated" in the War on Terror, etc.) That too I find extremely aggravating. But, I believe, this is another, completely separate, issue. And, this is the problem of having potential military strategists given propaganda spiels by advocates for HAMAS (with no apparent countervailing information), and the attempt to legitimate/normalize HAMAS. Why pay pro HAMAS "professors"? (after all, if anyone wants a pro-HAMAS spiel, just tune in to the BBC, CBC, CNN, etc.)

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crosspatch Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:26:58am

re: #141 J.S.

I believe it is probably important to get the Hamas point of view as long as everyone understands that is what it is ... the Hamas point of view. That is the only way one might understand how a group like Hamas is able to gain the following it does. I also know from looking at the various bibliographies and suggested reading lists at the War College that people are expected to get a wide variety of information from a broad spectrum of viewpoints. That is a good thing. The notion that our people are not getting information about radical Islam or the "right" information about radical Islam is nuts. "right" in whose perspective? From what I see, all sorts of different perspectives are available and expected to be absorbed.

Just because the War College publishes a paper, it doesn't mean that information is the opinion of the War College or the War College agrees with it. It means they are presenting all sorts of information from all sorts of viewpoints. That her paper was even published tends to invalidate her whining.

"a new publication by Army War College research professor Sherifa Zuhur on Hamas and Israel that informs readers that Hamas has been misunderstood due to the misreporting by 'Israeli and Western sources that villainize the group.'"

That would be an opinion presented in the paper. It doesn't mean that is the opinion of the college. I believe most of the officers reading that paper will understand it for what it is. But it does serve a purpose, it reminds us to be careful about what we read. Her piece is likely to be just as biased in one direction as she accuses Western media of being in the opposite.

Regardless of one's intentions or doctrines or words, actions say more. Shooting thousands of rockets over time into civilian areas at random "says" more than any doctrine. It says Hamas are terrorists regardless of what they say. Their actions override their words.

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crosspatch Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:30:39am

I believe the leadership of Hamas needs to sit down and do a little studying of Western culture if they want to learn how to live with us. I think this notion of understanding goes both ways. If Hamas would take as much time in studying OUR culture, they might understand what they are doing wrong. Why is it that WE must always bend over backwards to understand THEM. At what point does that responsibility become reciprocal?

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Kenneth Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:33:54am

re: #143 crosspatch

That's the crux of it: they don't want to learn to live with us. They want to concur us. A blind spot of Islam has always been that as the Islamic way of life is ordained and designed by Allah, the infidels have nothing of value to teach to the believers.

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J.S. Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:36:11am

re: #142 crosspatch

Yes. I agree with the bulk of which you are saying. However, when i read:

...That would be an opinion presented in the paper. It doesn't mean that is the opinion of the college. [Well, i don't know -- can that really be said -- do we really know what "the opinion of the college" is? if so, where is that info, the evidence about the "opinions of the college"? j.s.] I believe most of the officers reading that paper will understand it for what it is. [well, i guess, we all hope so..but, as I noted in another post, according to a Wiki article, the US Army War College produces Pakistani generals also]

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crosspatch Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:38:21am

Put another way, when I see Hamas "officers" studying Christianity, Judaism, Western history, comparative political systems, etc. then maybe we will get somewhere. This notion that THEIR understanding and indoctrination can be very narrow and ours must be broad and accept their narrow, radical view as valid is crazy. It isn't sustainable. Understanding has to work both ways. There is no justification for rocketing a kindergarten.

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crosspatch Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:41:32am

re: #145 J.S.

Just because Nature or Science publishes a paper, it doesn't mean they endorse it. Just because a library has a book, it doesn't mean the library is pushing that viewpoint. And just because the war college publishes a paper, it doesn't mean they agree. It means that they recognize that many hold that view and it would benefit our officers to be aware of that view. Again, the publishing of the paper kind of invalidates the argument because she says we aren't giving access to that side of the story in a paper that the college publishes that gives that side of the story.

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rexatosis Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:46:48am

Unfortunately too many in Academia believe one can understand military conflict solely from an economic/social viewpoint, one that is usually just warmed over Lenin/Marxist drivel of the "tyranny of imperialism as the highest stage of capitalism." This is bad enought when such drivel is limited to Liberal Arts programs. (I actually had a discussion with a Brown student who was trying to explain to me why the Bush Administration's Iraq policies were militarily faulty while admitting he had never studied any military campaign--not the American Rev. nor Civil War, yet alone WWI or WWII) To have such idiocy infect the Army War College may eventually prove to be fatal. Unbelievable.

Briefly a second point. If MindyManners #23 post of Prof. Zuhur's academic credentials is correct, BA, MA, Ph.D all from UCLA, Prof. Zuhur suffers from "Academic Inbreeding." This is usually seen as a major negative in the hiring process (or so it was drilled into me as a graduate student, and reinforced every reaccreditation cycle), so why the hell did the Army War College hire her? To be PC? Just asking the obvious.

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J.S. Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:51:18am

re: #147 crosspatch

Obviously. That's as self evident as "water is wet" -- I'm aware of the disclaimers -- ditto for this website, btw, the opinions expressed by posters here in no way reflect, necessarily, the opinions of the website owner -- ditto for every single bit of "opinion" expressed anywhere. Again, that's not the problem. The problem is when individuals simply assume (sans evidence) that, "well, of course, The US Army War College will see this as pro-Hamas propaganda and reject it." Well, who says? Who's to say that the War College is not in agreement with Zuhur's stance? Evidence, Evidence?

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J.S. Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:56:15am

re: #148 rexatosis

I'm not entirely certain if she, Zuhur, has been hired (in a teaching/instructor way) by the College (the Strategic Studies Institute also occasionally employs "outsiders" or external people to write up papers)...(usually one could check out an institutions or college's list of "profs", instructors, etc -- I can't find such a link at the US Army War College -- so I don't know what Zuhur's status is...)

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Born_to_lose Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:00:20am

I came across this last report last night (have military personnel in close association) via the mailers that the SSI sends to service members. Anyway, I have been emailing people endlessly on it's contents today. I was reading it last night with my mouth agape. anyway, I wrote a letter to the author, Dr. Sherifa Zuhur early this morning. Here is what I wrote:

"First of all, Dr. Zuhur fails to recognize that the Muslim Brotherhood is not just another YMCA, as she tries to imply with her assessment about the political identity, the Da'wa (or "missionary" acts, though exclusive to spreading of Islamic ideas), and "education" it yields as opposed to political threat and hate speech that HAMAS and the MB actually participate in. Yes, HAMAS IS an insurgency, as the "education" they provided to youths and young Muslim men was the propaganda against Jews and Western Civilization. In 1991, the Muslim Brotherhood issued this statement:

"[The Muslim Brotherhood] must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and "sabotaging" its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all other religions." -- by Mohamed Akram, May 19, 1991.

I find it rather convenient and interesting that this was not included in Dr. Zuhur's report. Furthermore, her research on the suicide bombings that she casually mentions, as if simply describing the Palestinian national colors, lacks weight and conviction, not to mention the severity of the act. Clearly, she has not read Anat Berko's book "The Path to Paradise" about the politically imposed psychological abuse of children and female suicide bombers from the West Bank and Gaza .

Also, when Dr. Zuhur states that Hamas "inherited all of the hallmarks if a Muslim Brotherhood organization in it's aim to create a more Islamic Society out of a conviction that developing the proper structures will bring about a truly moral (but not totalitarian) Islamic society," she fails to recognize, or simply define what she is referring to: Sharia Law, this Qur'anic based theocracy that is currently being executed in places like Saudi Arabia and Dubai/The United Arab Emirates. Sharia Law is what HAMAS wants to impose upon not only it's Muslim citizens, but also all "unbelievers" of Allah, which, by the by, include, Jews, Christians, atheists, pagans, Buddhists, etc. The fact of the matter is, the Islamic nations that Dr. Zuhur feels Israel and the West are wrongly coining as terrorist states are in actuality entertaining and endorsing the idea of a world wide caliphate and absolute submission to the wills of Allah and the Qur'anic verses.

If we are to have a true assessment of what is the root cause, current condition, and only resolution to the violence in Gaza, then the American Government must be honest with itself by not publishing biased HAMAS propaganda as has been done with this report. On the political level, we must recognize that about the fact that HAMAS is teaching a very anti-Western civilization, anti-democratic idea, via teachings in the Qur'an and aHadith. They are using their religion to bolster support as well (this is why, and again, as Dr. Zuhur fails to mention that HAMAS was elected in a "democratic" fashion it was more out of a certain blood lust). Thank you."

Needless to say, I have yet to recieve a response from the author. Oh, and how convienient that it was published ONE DAY before HAMAS started lobbing rockets across the boarder into Israel...

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lobo91 Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:06:22am

re: #145 J.S.

well, i guess, we all hope so..but, as I noted in another post, according to a Wiki article, the US Army War College produces Pakistani generals also]

The War College (and just about every other school run by the US military) hosts students from dozens of forign countries. Most of them also have foreign officers serving as "exchange" instructors.

My small group leader at the Sergeants Major Academy was Dutch, for example.

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J.S. Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:07:38am

re: #147 crosspatch

by the way, having an article published in a top/leading scientific journal, such as Nature or Science, does indeed indicate an "endorsement", in terms that the article has met particular standards for acceptance into one's community of peers. In fact, that's one of the reason's why these publications take scientific fraud so seriously (the publisher's reputation stands/falls behind what they publish). (I don't think the SSI is at this level, though -- it's less "scientific" -- more akin to standard sociology "research.")

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aboo-Hoo-Hoo Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:37:23am

From the 'Biographical Sketch of the Author' in the aforementioned SSI white-paper:

Dr. Zuhur is also currently the Director of the Institute for Middle Eastern, Islamic, and Diasporic Studies and an Associate Editor of the Bulletin of the Middle Eastern Studies Association.

Is this the same MESA? as in MESA Coupa

155

J.S. Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:45:14am

re: #154 aboo-Hoo-Hoo

From a MESA search, the MESA search also indicates that Zuhur is employed as a "professor" at the Strategic Studies Institute, US Army War College. Good grief. (who will the "War College" be employing next, eh?)

156

MTF Wed, Jan 14, 2009 1:32:16pm

If the goal is to "know your enemy", I have absolutely no problem with studying Hamas (obviously). In fact, studying Hamas should be encouraged, much like we would encourage studying the Muslim Brotherhood or Islamic Jihad more generally, Hezbollah, al Qaeda or other terrible people of whom we need to rid the world.

But whomever hired this woman and approved a course designed to undermine the will of our soldiers is committing treason. At least it would have been called "treason" in any other war.

157

joseph Wed, Jan 14, 2009 1:47:39pm

Some of Ms. Zuhur's Trash:

Excerpted from Precision in the Global War on Terror: Inciting Muslims through the War of Ideas

Showing photographs of Hamas leader Ismail
Haniya and Iranian President Ahmadinejad together
does not diminish the essential differences between a
state power and that of a movement fighting for territory
and the deficits of pursuing common strategies against
these disparate entities. The message is clear—Muslim
opposition groups and elected Muslim leaders are
part of “global jihad.” Yet, these particular leaders and
groups are very much focused on their local interests,
have not attacked Americans on U.S. soil, and are not
the same type of threat as al-Qa’ida. (p.18-19)

However, what is viewed in Lebanon as
resistance to Israeli incursions, or demonstrations
and sit-ins that protested the government of Fu’ad
Saniura, or countering the March 14 coalition are called
“terrorism” in the West (and in Israel); and Palestinian
resistance to Israel is “terrorism.” The actions of the
American organization, the Council on American-
Islamic Relations, which seeks to protect Muslims from
discrimination or violence, have been labeled “a cover
for terrorism,” and so on. This allows for conflation of
anti-Americanism, and Arab non-salafi groups with Islamist,
and violent Islamist groups. Indeed, many American sources, including certain items read and recommended
in DoD training and education, or governmentally-
funded publications utilized by DoD, continue
to confuse Arabs and Muslims, cleaving to the
Orientalist and racist vision of premodern peoples who
engage in “Islam” as a revenge on modernity.

Reasons for the ambition and overreach
of governmental planners and figures in the policy area
are complex. They might well remember the maxim
that the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
These intentions cause offense, or would do so if
they were widely known. For instance, it is probably
a mistake to assume that broad numbers of Muslims
consciously desire to provide sanctuary to terrorists.
My Muslim interlocuters felt it rather insulting to
Muslims to assume that they have and could never
develop anything other than failing or failed states that
provide such sanctuary. Many of these individuals
are first surprised, then offended, by discussions
about failed (rather than developing) states, or those
concerning Islam’s incompatibility with democracy.
While some are willing to consider factors that have
“gone wrong” in Islamic society, there is something
fundamentally racist (see O is for Orientalism) about
the assumptions that a particular religious community
21
eschews democracy and is incapable of democratic
behavior. At the same time, certain Muslim extremists
have indeed issued statements against democracy,
pointing instead to shura (consultation) as a bona fide
Islamic method of governance.
What is important is that transformative U.S.
tactics and policies that are supposed to encourage
democracy have had negative secondary effects as
we are seeing today in Iraq. Elsewhere, a lukewarm
or intermittent support of democratization causes
Muslims to doubt the sincerity of U.S. intentions. An
example of this somewhat evangelical zeal to transform
Muslims, Islam, and Muslim societies may be noted
in the TruthSpeak Forum which called for the United
States, and specifically DoD, to stop using the word
“jihad” or “jihadists” and refer instead to terrorism
and criminals. More will be said about this tactic
below, but just imagine if a Muslim expert or journalist
initiated a campaign to teach Catholics not to use the
word “reconciliation” (the modern term for confession)
because she/he felt it led to the repetition of sin since
it may be expiated, and suggested the imposition of a
new term for reconciliation with a moral component.

158

joseph Wed, Jan 14, 2009 1:49:38pm

Born_to_lose: Nice Work!

159

joseph Wed, Jan 14, 2009 1:52:00pm

We bring many creepy crawly things to light here, but I often we wish we had a way to focus on worthwhile, reachable goals. Like having the SSI can this terror-apologist.

160

J.S. Wed, Jan 14, 2009 1:56:47pm

re: #152 lobo91

Hosting foreign students isn't (necessarily) a problem...My point was more of a comment about the US Army War College's "illustrious" graduates. Thus, from the Wiki article, one can read the list of "famous" alumni...These include, General Patton, Eisenhower, Schwarzkopf, etc, etc., and now, from the class of 2001 (drum roll please) Brigadier General Isfand Yar Pataudi (Pakistan Army)...Way to go, U.S. of A. "war" College! (how about some more Brigadier Generals from Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia).

161

Joseph Wed, Jan 14, 2009 2:25:39pm

She can't even get basic facts straight:

When facing the overwhelming force of
the Israeli military or in response to the 1994 Hebron
attacks by Baruch Goldman, suicide attacks (this was
Hamas’ rationale) were then justified as a last resort.129

The name was 'Goldstein'.

162

Joseph Wed, Jan 14, 2009 2:40:08pm

from her book:

A Pew research survey found that while
most Muslim Americans are assimilated and hold
moderate views, fewer of them strongly denounce
al-Qa’ida (58 percent) although only 1 percent have a
positive view of the organization. But that is enough
for some to sound an alarm because about 26 percent
of young Muslims in this study stated that suicide
terrorism is sometimes justified.144 One probably needs
to factor their orientation to the Israeli-Arab conflict
into this issue, which the Pew survey does not directly
address.blockquote>
Puke.

163

J.S. Wed, Jan 14, 2009 2:43:43pm

re: #161 Joseph

And the whole content (that statement of Zuhur) is absolute HAMAS boiler-plate propaganda. That is HAMAS spin. There's a website (argh..I don't have the link) which gave/gives a detailed historical analysis of how HAMAS came to power (gained its foothold in the Palestinian territories) -- and it was through a bloody series of purges/murders -- anyone who expressed the slightest doubt or "moderation" was murdered -- that was early on (the HAMAS would go through these "purges" of its members, always up the ante, at ever increasing levels of extremism -- until we have what we have today).

164

Joseph Wed, Jan 14, 2009 2:46:33pm

Agreed.

Here's something I just came across in her book:

Those Americans who are essentially unfamiliar with the history of the Palestinian population, and the destruction and devastation of their lives and society by the Israeli state, frequently accepted the definition
of Palestinians as terrorists because Palestinian organizations’ acts of political violence, particularly in the 1970s crystallized their image in the Western media. This worsened following 9/11 when the Israeli media emphasized the parallels between the attacks in America and the ongoing suicide attacks that were a part of the al-Aqsa Intifadha.

Gee, ya think handing out sweets and dancing in the streets of the WB & G had anything to do with our perceptions?

165

J.S. Wed, Jan 14, 2009 3:12:33pm

re: #164 Joseph

You know, the ultimate victory for the Islamists will be when they have the United States Military chanting out pro-HAMAS slogans and mouthing the HAMAS propaganda talking points. And that will be thanks to such "colleges", these wonderful institutions, these bastions of lower learning! So, what's the difference between a jihadist terrorist training camp situated in Pakistan and a U.S. military "war" college? What's the difference?

166

J.S. Wed, Jan 14, 2009 3:19:00pm

Answer: The Pakistani terrorist training camps haven't been infiltrated.

167

Bob Wed, Jan 14, 2009 3:26:14pm

Misreporting? You know what, they're right. Now that I think about it, it was most likely a river of fruit punch the Hamas martyrs were crossing on their way to liberating Jerusalem.

168

Joseph Wed, Jan 14, 2009 3:51:10pm

Here's a good question to toss out: Germany had their own Officers' training schools of course (and a number of high ranking officers were even jewish). In WWI, Nazi ideas would've been unheard of in such schools, yet 20 years later they were de rigor to the point that arguing with them easily meant a tortuous execution before one's own family. Just goes to show you what systematic brainwashing can accomplish.

169

anotherindyfilmguy Wed, Jan 14, 2009 4:32:16pm

The only question I have is why does this mole/propogandist still have a job in the DoD?

170

Spiny Norman Wed, Jan 14, 2009 4:55:43pm

Multi-culturalist sensitivity training.

:^þ

171

rokbassist Wed, Jan 14, 2009 6:20:51pm

I work at an Army post. I've never seen a bigger bunch of spineless, overweight weenies. I don't know if it is just the Army or a small part of the entire military structure at this point (I was in 25 years ago), but the fact that they completely ignore militant Islam and embrace social engineering is no great surprise considering all the Vietnam-era leaders are gone and the touchy-feely "can't we just get along" generation is now at the helm.

172

dmann Wed, Jan 14, 2009 7:38:27pm

Say, ay.....his name is what? Army of the sheep humpin Godless turds. Kill em all, the women and children first, any mercy betrays our weakness!

173

kytan Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:08:24pm

"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the results of a hundred battles." -Sun Tzu

174

NamDoc67 Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:58:19pm

I urge everyone to read deeply into the comments attached to the original article. They are dynamite. I long ago concluded that one of the major ways this country lost its bearings was because we did not systematically study in our schools how Marxism operated, in order to understand what its adherents were doing to us. They successfully overwhelmed several generations of our culture and now no one under 50 seems to even notice how we got where we are today. The Islamists are capitalizing on that experience.

Here is just one of the many insightful comments that are right on:

"The lack of familiarity with the Islamic doctrine of taqiyya will be lethal to our civilization. For advancing the jihad and success against the kafir, Muslims are allowed to deceive the unbeliever.

"The Christian and Jewish concept of sin is basically absent in Islam. There is no understanding of or even notation of The Golden Rule in Islam. To Muslims we are essentially untermenschen and they can pretty much do what they want with us, which is why, using taqiyya, they have convinced the Defense Department and much of our government, media, and academia to bend over the grab the ankles.

"Their ethics of expediency exactly matches that of the Marxists, which is another thing they have in common and one of the reasons why they are in alliance against us. Political correctness is a legal/cultural/institutional device of repression of thought which the Marxists have successfully implemented, and which the Muslims take complete advantage of."

175

NappieRed Thu, Jan 15, 2009 8:34:52am

From a friend who is a retired Army Colonel:

I looked into this. It is unclear to me that Poole and Ricks even read the work Doug Lovelace’s professor did. I did, and I know Doug did, as well. So I called Doug. Doug is Director of the Army Strategic Studies Institute at the Army War College. I’ve known him 20 years. Doug wrote the preface on her work posted on 28 Dec. Her hypothesis is Hamas and Israeli strategic objectives are incompatible, and peace is not possible as long as there are no shared objectives. She also correctly predicts (in summer 2008) that Israel will re-take the Gaza through its policy of “aggressive deterrence.” Have known Tom Ricks almost that long. The reason he no longer works for the Wash Post is he’s just not a very good reporter. Doug also said Poole’s commentary about war college students not being allowed to study Islamic extremism is dead wrong. Extremism is a big curriculum focus area. About half the student dissertations are written on extremism and potential US strategic responses to it. We’ve got to be careful with guys like Poole and Ricks. They both have websites and only get hits (ergo ad income) if they broadcast sensational stuff. Sensational meaning wrong, in this case.

176

SpiritOf1683 Thu, Jan 15, 2009 11:17:51am

If any books should become standard reading amongst the Armed Forces, they should be books written by the likes of Robert Spencer and Andrew Bostom, which give the whole unvarnished truth.

177

Born_to_lose Fri, Jan 16, 2009 7:13:37am

re: #175 NappieRed

The questions is, NappieRed, have YOU read the work? I did, and I will tell you right now, your retired Army Colnel friend's assesment is DEAD WRONG! Zuhur's purpose, and through the mild explaination of what HAMAS truly is and stands for, is a white washed version of their's and the Muslim Brotherhood's TRUE intents are, at the very least. For me to know, as a civilian, that our military service members are being handed this rubbish concerns me greatly. I am sorry that your retired Army Colnel friend is too deluded to read between lines of a percieved intention of this so called report on the Israel/HAMAS situation. Again, please see the letter I sent to Zuhur regarding her biased pro-HAMAS propaganda...

If you have not read the report, I would strongly urge you to read it. You can find it here (for free, and you can even download and save to your computer, as it is NOT a quick read:

[Link: www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil...]

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Born_to_lose Fri, Jan 16, 2009 7:14:23am

re: #176 SpiritOf1683

Absolutely. Agree 100%

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Born_to_lose Fri, Jan 16, 2009 7:15:59am

re: #177 Born_to_lose

Letter/comments for Dr. Zuhur posted to my comment above, #151

Spy Mode Auto

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