France Loves Creationism (Because It Makes Americans Look Stupid)

Science • Views: 3,832

The French love stories like this. It gives them an excuse to look down their Gallic noses at Americans, and in this case, they’re infuriatingly right: Creationism going strong on Darwin anniversary.

FLV Video

Forget about dinosaurs, the origins of life, and the birth of the universe. According to Ken Ham, the creator of the Creation Museum in Washington, DC, the world is only several thousand years old, despite the claims of scientists.

Ham said, “What this museum is saying is that God created the world in 6 days, about 6000 years ago.”

Ham is one of the stalwarts of creationism. He believes in a literal interpretation of the Bible. Creationists believe that dinosaurs and humans were contemporaries. Adam and Eve frolicked among the brontosaurus in Eden’s lush vegetation.

The Page family, visitors of the museum, had theories of their own. Kelly Page, the father, claims that dinosaurs never went extinct. “Humans used to live 900 years, so reptiles actually never stopped growing. Dinosaurs are just big lizards. Now the lizards don’t live as long, so they don’t get as big.”

Terry Mortenson, a historian at the museum, claimed that Noah’s Ark included a few dinosaurs in its menagerie.

The world according to creationists may seem laughable, but they are dead serious. Support for their theories gained steam under former US president George W. Bush. He even raised the possibility of teaching creationism in school. And this is the ultimate goal of Ham.

“They’ve thrown God and the Bible out and re-defined science as naturism,” said Ham. “That’s actually a religious position. It’s the religion of atheism.”

Since its opening a year and a half ago, the museum has welcomed over 600,000 visitors. And in a recent study, Americans showed their scepticism of Darwin’s theory of evolution, which only 50% of the US population accept as true.

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414 comments
1 neomexicon  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:25:31pm

ok

2 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:28:08pm
“Humans used to live 900 years, so reptiles actually never stopped growing. Dinosaurs are just big lizards. Now the lizards don’t live as long, so they don’t get as big.”

WOW! That's just..... stunningly idiotic.

3 Racer X  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:28:53pm

Like anyone cares what the French think anyway.

4 BignJames  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:29:25pm

They're French...it's what they do.

5 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:29:39pm

re: #1 neomexicon

ok

Shouldn't you be down-dinging this article?

6 BlueCanuck  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:29:55pm

Okay, with all this anti-science stuff going on, does anybody have bets on when we will split in evolution? The morlocks and the elohiem?

/think I got that second one right.

7 kywrite  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:30:14pm

At least our creationists don't periodically rampage through the streets burning cars.

/I'm remembering right, no? that fundamentalist Islam believes in creationism?

8 Racer X  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:30:28pm

re: #2 Sharmuta

WOW! That's just..... stunningly idiotic.

That is the father talking! How would you like that dude as your dad?

9 dentate  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:30:29pm

ruined economy...idiocy on the rise...dark ages just around the corner

10 Syrah  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:30:32pm

The only thing that is worse than when the French are wrong, is when they are right.

11 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:30:37pm

The French may think they're smart, but they left the URL for their FLV video file wide open to the internet.

12 BignJames  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:30:43pm

Terry Mortenson, a historian at the museum, claimed that Noah’s Ark included a few dinosaurs in its menagerie.


Why didn't he leave the mosquitoes behind?

13 Brit in Japan  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:31:03pm

Yay, I may actually get to join this creationist-meltdown party.

This article highlights something which slightly confuses me: When people at the deception institute lie, obfuscate, copy, and do many many things that make Christians look bad, why do Christians get really mad at Charles for simply pointing it out?

The DI is your enemy. The DI is lying to you.


BiJ

14 ArmyWife  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:31:09pm

re: #2 Sharmuta

According to this well thought out theory nothing ever stops growing. This totally explains why I was 5'2 at the age of 13 and now, at the age of 37 I am....5'2.

15 dentate  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:31:11pm

re: #8 Racer X

That is the father talking! How would you like that dude as your dad?

The kid is probably worse. "Dad, what's a lizard?"

16 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:31:40pm

re: #1 neomexicon

ok

Can we have an "ok?"

17 Last Mohican  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:32:23pm
“They’ve thrown God and the Bible out and re-defined science as naturism,” said Ham. “That’s actually a religious position. It’s the religion of atheism.”

I have read that over and over, about twenty times now. My neurons are overheating, and I still can't figure out what Mr. Ham is trying to say. I even tried googling "naturism" to try and figure out what that means. I think the definition that I discovered wasn't what Mr. Ham had in mind, but I found some sites that made me not care anymore.

18 dentate  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:32:41pm

re: #15 dentate

The kid is probably worse. "Dad, what's a lizard?"

I would bet that on the same survey, 50% of Americans think that monkeys grow up to be gorillas, and that there is a plug in the bottom of the sea someplace to let the water out.

No wonder Al Gore has an audience.

19 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:33:14pm

re: #6 BlueCanuck

Okay, with all this anti-science stuff going on, does anybody have bets on when we will split in evolution? The morlocks and the elohiem?

/think I got that second one right.

I think it is just eloi. But I don't think they're two separate species; it is more of a male/female split, IIRC.

I think what happens is that the dirty machines go down into tunnels, where the men tend them, while the women stay above. Gradually the men become coarse, and the women, selected only for beauty and not ability, become like all the blonde jokes.

It has been a while since I read the book, though.

20 kywrite  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:33:52pm

Wait -- only 50% of Americans believe in evolution? That can't be right. Where the heck did that stat come from?

(FTR, I believe in evolution (scientific and provable) guided or put in motion by God (philosophical and thus unprovable). Why the heck can't people accept that both could be true?)

21 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:33:59pm
Foreigners may pretend otherwise, but if English is spoken loudly enough, anyone can understand it, the British included. Actually, there's no such thing as a foreign language. The world is just filled with people who grunt and squeak instead of speaking sensibly. French may be an exception. But since it's impossible to figure out what French people are saying, we'll never know for sure. - P. J. O'Rourke
22 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:35:23pm

re: #8 Racer X

That is the father talking! How would you like that dude as your dad?

I think it's this sort of thing that helps alienate kids from their parents. Most kids rebel to varying degrees, but when reality smacks these kids upside the head at some point (and it will) they will wonder why it is their own parents foisted this sort of ignorance on them. Perhaps not all kids of parents like this, but certainly some.

And in the end- it's actually alienating these kids from Christianity too. How much more counter productive can it be?

23 HelloDare  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:35:38pm

And the French love Jerry Lewis.
LAY-DEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

24 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:35:39pm
The French are a smallish, monkey-looking bunch and not dressed any better, on average, than the citizens of Baltimore. True, you can sit outside in Paris and drink little cups of coffee, but why this is more stylish than sitting inside and drinking large glasses of whiskey I don't know. - P.J. O'Rourke
25 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:35:40pm

re: #20 kywrite

Wait -- only 50% of Americans believe in evolution? That can't be right. Where the heck did that stat come from?

(FTR, I believe in evolution (scientific and provable) guided or put in motion by God (philosophical and thus unprovable). Why the heck can't people accept that both could be true?)

Too many religious people want to limit G-d by what they can imagine, so they can't see how He can guide evolution, but, by staying within physical laws, make it look random.

But then, it is quantum mechanics that makes this all possible, and most people don't understand it.

26 TimC  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:35:55pm

Yeah, I read an article just today (sorry, I'm disinclined to find it again, so these statistics are approximate) that said, according to their survey:

36% of Americans don't believe in evolution
another 32% don't believe one way or the other, and don't care.

SIGH. "It gives them an excuse to look down their Gallic noses at Americans,...in this case, they’re infuriatingly right" - yup, this is exactly the kind of thing that goes on when someone in Oklahoma or Kansas or something says something stupid - everyone from outside of Jesusland thinks they're a bunch of idiots, and in those cases, they are indeed right....

27 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:36:21pm

Turtles all the way down... and of course the international media can't wait to find stories that make them look superior to that of the US.

You know what I find not so curious - where are the interviews of the folks who've had their cars torched by the thugs who have torched tens of thousands of cars over the past few years? Or the folks who have been busy torching the cars because they have nothing better to do than to fire up the carbeques.

And you could go from country to country to find folks making stupid statements. It's not that difficult to do.

Still, it is troubling that many folks take the creation story at face value and reject evolution and other theories that have shown to have scientific support.

If the creationists continue spreading their messages, the sciences in the US will suffer for it - as will our economic and technological capabilities. It is the slow erosion that is already underway.

28 dapperdave  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:36:35pm

I went to Knotts berry farm last November, they still have freedom fries there.

29 Bubbaman  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:36:37pm

France loves creationism because Darwinism suggests that they shouldn't exist.

30 ArmyWife  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:36:49pm

re: #24 Noam Sayin'

My mother is French - English is her second language, she came with a green card.

/hides head in shame ;)

31 Bubbaman  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:37:06pm

Hey, dapperdave - you stole my icon!

32 dapperdave  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:37:59pm

re: #31 Bubbaman

Oooh dude...I'll change mine to Barney Fife.

33 freedombilly  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:38:01pm

Boy it feels icky agreeing with the French.

34 Bubbaman  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:38:22pm

re: #32 dapperdave

Oooh dude...I'll change mine to Barney Fife.

Thank you.

35 Last Mohican  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:38:23pm
Creationists believe that dinosaurs and humans were contemporaries. Adam and Eve frolicked among the brontosaurus in Eden’s lush vegetation

Hah-hah, you silly French people didn't realize that the plural of "brontosaurus" is actually "brontosauruses!"

(I'm trying to find a way to salvage my national pride now that I realize that half of my fellow Americans believe that evolution didn't happen).

36 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:38:31pm
The French love stories like this. It gives them an excuse to look down their Gallic noses at Americans, and in this case, they’re infuriatingly right

Oh big deal, there are 50 reasons to hate the French.

37 CynicalConservative  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:38:41pm
re: #1 neomexicon

ok
re: #5 Charles

Shouldn't you be down-dinging this article?


Isn't that kind of like "First!"?

38 MJ  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:39:01pm

They may be right...but...how many of those American yahoos have died in the not too distant past keeping the French free?

39 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:39:01pm

re: #28 dapperdave

I went to Knotts berry farm last November, they still have freedom fries there.

Interesting. The founder of Knotts was also a founder of the John Birch society, but the park has been disassociated with him for probably well over 30 years, so don't feel guilty going.

40 the1sgjohns  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:39:15pm
41 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:40:18pm

re: #35 Last Mohican

Hah-hah, you silly French people didn't realize that the plural of "brontosaurus" is actually "brontosauruses!"

(I'm trying to find a way to salvage my national pride now that I realize that half of my fellow Americans believe that evolution didn't happen).

Do you know that the brontosaurus is small at one end, much, much bigger in the middle, and small again at the far end, according to Miss Anne Elk?

42 jorline  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:40:41pm

re: #28 dapperdave

I went to Knotts berry farm last November, they still have freedom fries there.

I serve freedom fries at my restaurant...very popular.

43 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:40:49pm

re: #35 Last Mohican

It doesn't help when you've got Hollywood providing the science lessons.

And that doesn't even begin to get into the full-on agitprop of movies like Day After Tomorrow and Gore's Inconvenient Hoax.

44 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:41:03pm

re: #30 ArmyWife

Grandpa and grandma on my mom's side were illegal immigrants. Just walked off the boat and headed for deep-state North Dakota, where no one would ever think of want to looking for them.

45 Last Mohican  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:41:14pm

re: #40 the1sgjohns

63% of Americans say they believe that humans and other animals have either always existed in their present form or have evolved over time under the guidance of a supreme being while only 26% say that life evolved solely through processes such as natural selection.

Sounds like a potentially confusingly worded question to me. Did that option that I italicized specifically exclude natural selection?

46 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:41:17pm

It's embarrassing.

47 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:41:18pm

Classified ad for a French rifle: never fired, dropped once.

48 pingjockey  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:41:36pm

re: #38 MJ

Don't confuse them with historical fact. You know of course that no French collaborated with the Germans, they were all in the Resistance!(so how in hell did the nazis rule france for 3 years?)

49 dentate  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:41:58pm

re: #48 pingjockey

Don't confuse them with historical fact. You know of course that no French collaborated with the Germans, they were all in the Resistance!(so how in hell did the nazis rule france for 3 years?)

very carefully

50 MarineGrunt  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:42:04pm
Now the lizards don’t live as long

Excuse me!

51 the1sgjohns  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:42:11pm

re: #45 Last Mohican

I don't think so.

52 ArmyWife  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:42:23pm

re: #44 Noam Sayin'

But were they French? Cause my mother is French. My Grandmother still speaks Frenglish.

53 Racer X  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:42:30pm

re: #26 TimC

34% of Americans believe in ghosts.
34% believe in UFOs
29% believe in astrology
25% reincarnation
24% witches

54 dentate  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:42:31pm

Charles, does this mean you are gradually turning into a dinosaur?

55 pingjockey  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:42:58pm

re: #40 the1sgjohns
Who in hell did they poll?

56 dentate  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:43:07pm

re: #53 Racer X

34% of Americans believe in ghosts.
34% believe in UFOs
29% believe in astrology
25% reincarnation
24% witches

52% voted for hope and change

57 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:43:17pm

re: #43 lawhawk

It doesn't help when you've got Hollywood providing the science lessons.

And that doesn't even begin to get into the full-on agitprop of movies like Day After Tomorrow and Gore's Inconvenient Hoax.

I have had an idea for a science fiction show that would give a way to explain real science; things like orbits, relativistic time dilation, etc., while still being entertaining (many characters who don't like each other on board the ship; an ancient ship that needs a lot of maintenance; different planets to visit; etc.)

I'm working on using the setting for short stories.

58 the1sgjohns  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:43:24pm

re: #55 pingjockey

That my friends is the right question!

59 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:43:25pm

Time to bust out this chart again....
Public Acceptance of Evolution
#4 France
#49 USA

60 M. Bensson-Levi  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:43:35pm

The Earth is only about 7,000 years old. It just looks older 'cause it's had such a hard life.

61 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:44:26pm

re: #55 pingjockey

Who in hell did they poll?

People who still pick up their phones and answer polls. In other words, morons, and people stuck at home for some reason.

62 Racer X  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:44:27pm

re: #56 dentate

52% voted for hope and change

52% believe in Unicorns

63 mfarmer1  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:44:31pm

Dinosaurs on Noah's ark? HAHAHA! What a bunch of crackpots. Oh, and the dinosaur part is pretty funny too. Seriously, who actually believes this garbage? Anecdotal at best, but I don't know a single person this whacked who actually believes this crap. Where are they? Who are they? C'mon, what's the percentage, 1%? Please tell me it must only be the people who work at these creation museums and a few nutters.

64 Last Mohican  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:44:34pm

re: #14 ArmyWife

According to this well thought out theory nothing ever stops growing. This totally explains why I was 5'2 at the age of 13 and now, at the age of 37 I am....5'2.

Just give it another five or six hundred years. You'll be slam-dunking, no problem.

65 SpaceJesus  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:44:51pm

they do realize the flinstones was just a show right

66 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:45:14pm

re: #63 mfarmer1

Dinosaurs on Noah's ark? HAHAHA! What a bunch of crackpots. Oh, and the dinosaur part is pretty funny too. Seriously, who actually believes this garbage? Anecdotal at best, but I don't know a single person this whacked who actually believes this crap. Where are they? Who are they? C'mon, what's the percentage, 1%? Please tell me it must only be the people who work at these creation museums and a few nutters.

Too bad the unicorns refused to get in the ark.
(Anyone else remember that song?)

67 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:45:30pm

Our first down-dinger: Right_Is_Right.

68 BlueCanuck  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:45:37pm

re: #43 lawhawk

I always point out how Hollyweird gets the science or physics wrong. Even in simple action movies. But that's just me. I have a questioning mind that makes me look for answers. Unfortunately sometimes I don't like what I find.

/why I am now agnostic.

69 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:45:49pm

re: #35 Last Mohican

(I'm trying to find a way to salvage my national pride now that I realize that half of my fellow Americans believe that evolution didn't happen).

Well- that's easy. They speak french and not german because of the USA.

70 ArmyWife  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:45:58pm

re: #54 dentate

I had a girlfriend that had a cute lizard tattoo on her abdomen. Then she got pregnant and it turned into a big, scary dinosaur.

71 the1sgjohns  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:46:07pm

re: #59 Killgore Trout

Still doesn't explain the pre-Cambrian explosion.

72 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:46:15pm

re: #68 BlueCanuck

I always point out how Hollyweird gets the science or physics wrong. Even in simple action movies. But that's just me. I have a questioning mind that makes me look for answers. Unfortunately sometimes I don't like what I find.

/why I am now agnostic.

Mythbusters has had a good time recently with movie myths. Then they explain how the special effects were actually done.

73 dapperdave  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:46:18pm

re: #29 Bubbaman

Sorry about that, great minds think alike.

74 HelloDare  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:46:37pm

Noah took two of every land animal, as opposed to ocean animals. If it rained forty days and forty nights, then the water that covered the earth must have been fresh water. Did all the sea creatures die from all the fresh water or did God command somebody else to built a gigantic submarine to save all the fishes and whales?

75 SpaceJesus  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:46:40pm

re: #59 Killgore Trout

Time to bust out this chart again....
Public Acceptance of Evolution
#4 France
#49 USA


and island of inbred vikings is apparently smarter than us, this is truly a sad state of affairs.

76 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:46:46pm

re: #55 pingjockey

It's a push poll from the Discovery Institute. They phrased the questions in certain ways to illicit the desired responses.

77 pingjockey  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:47:19pm

re: #57 Kosh's Shadow
Now there's a bang up idea. I'm rereading The Ringworld and there is some serious math, physics, real science in it.

78 Jewels (AKA Julian)  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:47:22pm

What do we care what france says? They hate us as much as the Islamists. I can't really give a tinkards damn for them

79 ArmyWife  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:47:22pm

re: #74 HelloDare

The lost pages.

80 Last Mohican  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:47:38pm

re: #59 Killgore Trout

Time to bust out this chart again....
Public Acceptance of Evolution
#4 France
#49 USA

Ugh. Am I reading something incorrectly? It looks like we're number 33. Out of 34.

81 Neutral President  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:47:54pm

re: #65 SpaceJesus

they do realize the flinstones was just a show right

Nope

82 Cygnus  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:48:11pm

re: #6 BlueCanuck

Okay, with all this anti-science stuff going on, does anybody have bets on when we will split in evolution? The morlocks and the elohiem?

/think I got that second one right.

I think it's 'Eloi'.

83 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:48:11pm

re: #80 Last Mohican

You're reading it correctly.

84 pingjockey  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:48:23pm

re: #76 Killgore Trout
Aha. Thanks.

85 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:48:33pm

re: #75 SpaceJesus

We're also getting beaten by scintific powerhouses such as Latvia, Bulgaria and Estonia. We're ahead of Turkey, so we got that going for us, which is nice.

86 dapperdave  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:48:34pm

re: #39 Kosh's Shadow

No guilt, had a blast I'm going to Disney Land this Sunday.

87 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:48:36pm

re: #76 Killgore Trout

It's a push poll from the Discovery Institute. They phrased the questions in certain ways to illicit the desired responses.

No, that's the Zogby poll. This is a Gallup poll. A sad picture of America indeed.

[Link: www.gallup.com...]

88 BlueCanuck  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:48:50pm

re: #57 Kosh's Shadow

Sounds good. There are a lot of SF short stories out there that deal with that kind of thing. No FTL at all, and just long relativistic voyages between stars. Depends on how you approach the begging, middle, and end of the trip.

89 nyc redneck  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:48:51pm

these people have no science to back up their "museum".
this could be anything they want to show and display at any time.
subject to nothing but whim and fancy.
it is a hoax as a science museum.
and only interesting from a perspective of primitive artistic expression,
people driven by a need to explain the universe when they have no facts or real information.
just feelings.
technology has brought it further along than just cave paintings,

90 M. Bensson-Levi  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:48:54pm

re: #53 Racer X

34% of Americans believe in ghosts.
34% believe in UFOs
29% believe in astrology
25% reincarnation
24% witches

People are willing to believe in every sort of nonsense, but themselves! All my life I've found this to be one of mankind's most disappointing traits.

91 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:49:54pm

re: #80 Last Mohican

Oops, you're right. For some reason I recalled that was a 50 country poll. My bad.

92 rawmuse  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:50:13pm

So what, the French like Jerry Lewis.

93 BlueCanuck  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:50:44pm

re: #77 pingjockey

Pournelle and Niven are two of the Silver age that really paid attention to stuff like that.

94 SummerSong  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:51:08pm

OT - Has anyone with a Facebook account (I don't have one) gone to the group's site Spencer joined to see if they have commented on all of this? Might be interesting to see what their take has been.

95 jaunte  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:51:09pm

re: #71 the1sgjohns

How many millions of years did it take that explosion to happen?

"The explosion of external form in the fossil record is what we see, but more gradual adaptation was taking place at the molecular level. Wang et. al. (1999) for example, recently conducted phylogenetic studies divergences among animal phyla, plants, animals and fungi. These researchers estimated Arthropods diverged from more primitive chordates more than 900 million years ago, and Nematodes from that lineage almost 1200 million years ago. They furthermore estimated that the plant, animal and fungi Kingdoms might have split almost 1600 million years ago. Finally, they conjecture that the basal animal phyla (Porifera, Cnidaria, Ctenophora) diverged between about 1200 and 1500 million years ago. If their research is valid, at least six major metazoan phyla appeared deep in the Precambrian, hundreds of millions of years before the oldest fossils in the fossil record."


[Link: www.fossilmuseum.net...]

96 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:51:12pm

Who's Bill Federer?

He's on KOA right now, talking about Lincoln, but did a long rant about Darwin and evolution, the who DI Darwin is a racist, holocaust and all that.

[Link: www.850koa.com...]

Bob Beauprez is the host, sitting in for Bob Newman. Of course Bob Beauprez is a Republican and going along with all the anti-evolution stuff with out batting an eye.

Of course, most of the talk is about Linclon. But the litany of all the Darwin lies was amazing.

97 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:51:18pm

re: #87 Charles

Ah, I got the two confused. I've made two mistakes in a row on this thread. One more and I might have to take myself out of the game.

98 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:51:30pm

re: #80 Last Mohican

Ugh. Am I reading something incorrectly? It looks like we're number 33. Out of 34.

This may have something to do with why I've been posting on this subject.

99 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:51:43pm

re: #77 pingjockey

Now there's a bang up idea. I'm rereading The Ringworld and there is some serious math, physics, real science in it.

Yes. Niven even revisited it when someone showed the ringworld isn't stable; its orbit would change so that part of it would get closer to the star. So he added thrusters to keep it in position in the next book.

For the shows I watch, I'm willing to accept some unlikely science, like the wormholes and stargates in the Stargate series, because there isn't a show without them, but when they had beings ("replicators") who needed neutronium, I got annoyed. "How can we tell if it is human or a replicator?"
My answer? The one that falls through the floor because it weighs tons is the replicator. (Neutronium is something like a couple of tons per teaspoon)

100 rawmuse  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:51:50pm

re: #94 SummerSong

OT - Has anyone with a Facebook account (I don't have one) gone to the group's site Spencer joined to see if they have commented on all of this? Might be interesting to see what their take has been.

I think you have to join it to see the comments. I do not wish to soil myself.

101 Cygnus  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:51:56pm

re: #53 Racer X

34% of Americans believe in ghosts.
34% believe in UFOs
29% believe in astrology
25% reincarnation
24% witches

65% believe in Obama.

102 Racer X  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:52:05pm

Pffftttt.

93% of French people believe Jerry Lewis was the 38th President.

103 M. Bensson-Levi  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:52:11pm

re: #56 dentate

52% voted for hope and change


OK, so that's mankind's most disappointing trait!

104 pingjockey  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:52:26pm

What really pisses me off is the arrogance of those DI folks. We have a universe of wonder out there. It is the height of hubris(I think) to think that this one little ball of water and rock is the only place where there is life. They are short changing the capability of the Supreme Being.

105 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:52:34pm

re: #97 Killgore Trout

Ah, I got the two confused. I've made two mistakes in a row on this thread. One more and I might have to take myself out of the game.

Bye Bye (grin)

106 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:52:36pm

re: #52 ArmyWife

Nope. Grandpa was German and, as best we can figure, Grandma was either Polish or Ukrainian. Her side of the family were Gypsies, and they moved around a lot.

And Grandma told a lot of stories.

But they were Gypsies.

107 Steve Rogers  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:52:49pm

France is just glad this museum is directing people's attention away from their multitude of White Flag Museums.

108 SpaceJesus  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:53:01pm

re: #85 Killgore Trout

We're also getting beaten by scintific powerhouses such as Latvia, Bulgaria and Estonia. We're ahead of Turkey, so we got that going for us, which is nice.


If this country had the same levels of appreciation for science as the ones at the top of the list, we'd be living on Mars by now probably.

109 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:53:04pm

re: #92 rawmuse

So what, the French like Jerry Lewis.

So? I like Jerry Lewis, I'm half French and... never mind.

110 BlueCanuck  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:53:15pm

re: #98 Charles

Science out of the science class is not a good thing. But from what I have seen around me, I think the public education system is taking a lot of thinking out of the curriculum. Lucky for me I have a lot of smart friends. Unlucky for me the list is very small.

111 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:53:40pm

I just asked one of the resident evolution deniers to explain hiccups, hernias, and the human infant grasp reflex in the foot.

If any creationists lurking in this thread would like to take a go at answering these three points, I'd love to get their input too.

/"Darwinists" need not bother.

112 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:53:59pm

re: #98 Charles

This may have something to do with why I've been posting on this subject.

Keep up the good work.

113 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:54:03pm

re: #88 BlueCanuck

Sounds good. There are a lot of SF short stories out there that deal with that kind of thing. No FTL at all, and just long relativistic voyages between stars. Depends on how you approach the begging, middle, and end of the trip.

The first story involves the ship, in need of repair, visiting a colony that would have been able to do the work, but has had this strange religion show up (an alien one, not one from Earth) that forbade technology (except for keeping their control of the planet). It does have a good ending.

114 rawmuse  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:54:17pm

re: #109 Walter L. Newton

I like Pink Panther movies. I have all of them. It is a sickness.

115 pingjockey  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:54:20pm

re: #93 BlueCanuck
I like their stuff. David Weber, Asimov, Heinlien, H. Beam Piper. I better quit, be typing authors forever.

116 dentate  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:54:32pm

re: #111 Sharmuta

I just asked one of the resident evolution deniers to explain hiccups, hernias, and the human infant grasp reflex in the foot.

If any creationists lurking in this thread would like to take a go at answering these three points, I'd love to get their input too.

/"Darwinists" need not bother.

Add goosebumps

117 Last Mohican  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:54:46pm

re: #98 Charles

This may have something to do with why I've been posting on this subject.

Yeah, I've gotta be honest. Until you started doing these posts, I had no idea that there were actually people around who deny evolution. I didn't even realize that this was still an issue.

118 J.S.  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:55:02pm

re: #57 Kosh's Shadow

On a Canadian "discovery channel' there's a program called "Daily Planet" and there's an occasional segment with an "on-the-street" physics guy (like a performance artist.) He sets up little experiments to teach passers-by on the street (or people walking through malls) basic concepts in physics...He attracts a small crowd, has people guess what the "answer" will be (typically it's way, way off), then provides the demonstration...(it's entertaining and informative)...link.

119 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:55:05pm

re: #71 the1sgjohns

Can you explain hiccups, hernias and the human infant grasp reflex in the foot?

120 M. Bensson-Levi  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:55:14pm

re: #71 the1sgjohns

Still doesn't explain the pre-Cambrian explosion.

The pre-Cambrian explosion was caused by a pre-Cambrian jahadi.

121 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:55:27pm

re: #114 rawmuse

I like Pink Panther movies. I have all of them. It is a sickness.

I can't STAND them.

122 hazzyday  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:55:45pm

re: #74 HelloDare

Noah took two of every land animal, as opposed to ocean animals. If it rained forty days and forty nights, then the water that covered the earth must have been fresh water. Did all the sea creatures die from all the fresh water or did God command somebody else to built a gigantic submarine to save all the fishes and whales?

someone told me there is no mention of ice in the Bible, so:

1. It wasn't important enough to mention in a desert climate.
2. It was all melted and thus maybe a big flood.
3. The Bible doesn't completely describe the world.
4. Or yah 4. It was created " I Dream of Jennie" style after the Bible was written.

The Bible best taken as the allegorical story it is.

123 pingjockey  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:56:22pm

re: #120 M. Bensson-Levi
Bwahahahaha! That made me laugh. Thanks.

124 Cygnus  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:56:28pm

re: #116 dentate

Add goosebumps

And Helen Thomas.

125 rawmuse  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:57:01pm

re: #121 Walter L. Newton

I can't STAND them.

Nobody's perfect ;)

126 albusteve  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:57:13pm

re: #102 Racer X

Pffftttt.

93% of French people believe Jerry Lewis was the 38th President.

heh...good one...maybe higher

127 pingjockey  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:57:44pm

re: #124 Cygnus
NO! No Helen Thomas. None, zilch, nada, nil, zip.

128 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:58:21pm
129 Kenneth  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:58:26pm

Update on National Security by Gen. Barry McCaffrey

•US-Russia relations will grow more hostile –Prime Minister Putin has re-established authoritarian control of the state and its mechanisms.

•Political and economic relations with China will continue to remain strong even as the PRC emerges as a major Pacific naval and air force military power.

•The crisis in Iraq will stabilize and US forces will largely withdraw in the coming 36 months. (35,000 US killed and wounded --$687 billion total).

•The next five years in Afghanistan will be complex. The political and economic situation may improve with massive new US resources. ($184 billion expended). Our Allies will not step up to the military challenge. The country is in misery.

•North Korea will come apart. We must facilitate a soft landing for this dangerous regional nuclear power.

•The situation in Pakistan is unstable. Our position in Afghanistan would be untenable without Pakistani support. Democracy is at peril.

•Iran will go nuclear and create instability in the Persian Gulf. The Sunni Arabs will create a nuclear-military coalition.

•Mexico in desperate need of serious US political and economic support to confront violent criminal drug cartels. US must act in deference to Mexican sovereignty.

•The death of Castro --meltdown of repression –250,000 refugees within 36 months.

•Confrontation with Chavez --instability and oil. We have no US Latin-America regional strategy.

•Terrorists will strike at America during the next Administration’s first term.

Heck of a to-do list for Obama. Is he going to whine how he inherited all this too?

130 Shr_Nfr  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:58:27pm

I am having a case of Usher frustration with these asshats.

131 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:59:06pm
132 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:59:17pm

re: #129 Kenneth

Update on National Security by Gen. Barry McCaffrey

Heck of a to-do list for Obama. Is he going to whine how he inherited all this too?

It's been over 3 weeks and no one has attacked the US. Obama is doing a good job.
/

133 HelloDare  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:59:58pm

re: #122 hazzyday

someone told me there is no mention of ice in the Bible, so:

1. It wasn't important enough to mention in a desert climate.
2. It was all melted and thus maybe a big flood.
3. The Bible doesn't completely describe the world.
4. Or yah 4. It was created " I Dream of Jennie" style after the Bible was written.

The Bible best taken as the allegorical story it is.

re: #79 ArmyWife

The lost pages.

5. As ArmyWife suggested, the submarine was mentioned in the Lost Pages.

134 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:00:19pm

Repost from earlier thread: flatfish, one of the best examples of evolution/refutations of 'cdesignism', with Richard Dawkins and David Attenborough.

Enjoy.

135 albusteve  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:00:28pm

re: #121 Walter L. Newton

I can't STAND them.

yes...Peter Sellers...the is only one Pink Panther movie

136 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:00:47pm

re: #7 kywrite

At least our creationists don't periodically rampage through the streets burning cars.

The French are afraid to examine their own society, so they latch onto any possible criticism against the USA in order to make themselves feel superior. If they think "creationism" is such a mental disease, let them confront it in their own back-yard.

Until they do, I don't give a rat's ass what they think about it.

137 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:00:53pm
138 SummerSong  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:01:26pm

re: #100 rawmuse

I think you have to join it to see the comments. I do not wish to soil myself.

Well, I can understand that. Thing is, they might just blow this attempt at a cover story from Spencer ... Just typing out loud, I guess.

139 Crux Australis  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:01:26pm

Are you sure that Ken Ham is Australian?

/cringes

140 Dan G.  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:01:27pm

re: #18 dentate

What? There's not a plug down there?

/big time

141 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:01:37pm

re: #71 the1sgjohns

Still doesn't explain the pre-Cambrian explosion.

You need to get your talking points straight.

It's the "Cambrian Explosion."

Come on. At least try.

142 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:02:25pm

re: #139 Crux Australis

Yes

143 HelloDare  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:02:37pm

re: #137 buzzsawmonkey

Au contraire; one of the Ten Plagues was hail.

And didn't Moses get a headache from a snow cone?

144 Shr_Nfr  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:02:39pm

re: #128 buzzsawmonkey

Those were the days. You could automatically make somebody evil by making them a Jew. What's that you say? The UN is doing it now? And the EU too? How very Shakespearean of them. Is the UN going to do a resolution about left handed people too? That was the other way you identified the evil doer in the play. Very sinister (which translates left as opposed to dexter which translates right)

145 hazzyday  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:03:09pm

re: #53 Racer X

34% of Americans believe in ghosts.
34% believe in UFOs
29% believe in astrology
25% reincarnation
24% witches

In some way, shape, or form I believe in all of these. Just not in the traditional way they are handed down. Superstition and Black Magic - no. Though they exist in people minds, they have a negative value.

I have very nice friends who call themselves witches. No supernatural powers, but a love for nature. Evolution.

146 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:03:43pm

re: #7 kywrite

At least our creationists don't periodically rampage through the streets burning cars.

/I'm remembering right, no? that fundamentalist Islam believes in creationism?

True. Our creationists just try to subvert the Constitution, and force the teaching of pseudo-science into public schools.

At least they aren't burning cars. They're just burning America's future.

147 dentate  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:03:46pm

re: #128 buzzsawmonkey

It always bugged me that the "Pink Panther" films seemed to refer to Inspector Clouseau. The Pink Panther, in the first film, was the diamond that David Niven was trying to steal; it doesn't appear in the other films, yet they are called "Pink Panther" also.

By the same token, the "thin man" in the film of the same name refers, not to Nick Charles, but to the murder victim Clyde Miller Wynant. Yet the subsequent films featuring Nick and Nora Charles are referred to as "Thin Man" films.

It is reminiscent of people who think that the merchant in "The Merchant of Venice" is Shylock, whereas the title actually refers to Antonio.

Not a new phenomenon. "Caesar" was Gaius Julius' personal cognomen referring to the manner of birth of one of his ancestors, but became a title for all his successors

148 VioletTiger  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:03:53pm

re: #59 Killgore Trout

Time to bust out this chart again....
Public Acceptance of Evolution
#4 France
#49 USA

Holy crap. That's just sad. I still find this so hard to believe.

The Page family, visitors of the museum, had theories of their own. Kelly Page, the father, claims that dinosaurs never went extinct. “Humans used to live 900 years, so reptiles actually never stopped growing. Dinosaurs are just big lizards. Now the lizards don’t live as long, so they don’t get as big.”

This is too stupid for words. Dinosaurs are now known to be warm-blooded and not lizards at all. These people couldn't find their ass with two hands and a flashlight.

149 HelloDare  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:03:56pm

re: #53 Racer X

34% of Americans believe in ghosts.
34% believe in UFOs
29% believe in astrology
25% reincarnation
24% witches

How many believe in polls?

150 Kenneth  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:04:51pm

re: #144 Shr_Nfr

Those were the days. You could automatically make somebody evil by making them a Jew.

Happy days are here again!

Juice is the new Jews.

151 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:04:59pm

re: #146 Charles

True. Our creationists just try to subvert the Constitution, and force the teaching of pseudo-science into public schools.

At least they aren't burning cars. They're just burning America's future.

I wonder how many would support burning books.

152 pingjockey  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:05:16pm

OT History channel doing a thing on Civil War tech.

153 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:06:14pm
154 nyc redneck  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:06:46pm

there is just something weird abt. france being happy if we look stupid.
doesn't that actually reflect badly on them, that they couldn't even save themselves in ww2 but 'stupid' america had to.

france is too arrogant to even be thankful for their existence.

155 dentate  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:06:47pm

The greatest ally of fascism, Islamo- or any other form, is willful stupidity and an inability or unwillingness to think. It's scary.

156 pingjockey  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:07:01pm

re: #151 MandyManners
I shudder to think. I'm betting the over on the over under percentage. Can't think of where I read it or heard it.....People who burn books will progress into burning people.

157 M. Bensson-Levi  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:07:12pm

re: #123 pingjockey

Any time. Glad of it. A laugh is one of life's great pleasures. Natural and spontaneous. Sort of like...nah, I better not.

158 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:07:18pm
159 Dan G.  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:07:43pm

re: #156 pingjockey

Makes sense.

160 unclassifiable  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:07:48pm

Sorry to say that the anti-science trend got started in the late 60's as a anti-establishment stance against the evils of science that fed the War machine.

Look at the import of Eastern Mysticism and the fascination with various tribal pagan beliefs and rituals.

And astrology, tarot cards, palm reading and all of the rest...

In short, it became cool to be ignorant.

So why not the Christian Fundamentalist also?

I mean look who is in power. Look at who dominates the airwaves. Look at the cult of Global Warming, of Gaia, ect, etc.

It really was a destructive time in the U.S. and we are reaping the whirlwind.

161 hazzyday  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:08:05pm

re: #148 VioletTiger

Gobsmacked.

162 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:08:11pm

re: #155 dentate

The greatest ally of fascism, Islamo- or any other form, is willful stupidity and an inability or unwillingness to think. It's scary.

That describes very well the French inferiority complex.

163 dentate  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:08:16pm

re: #158 buzzsawmonkey

Brutus, however, was the first person to be reprimanded for running with Caesars.

et tu, Buzzsaw?

164 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:08:24pm

re: #130 Shr_Nfr

I am having a case of Usher frustration with these asshats.

Their house will fall.

165 pingjockey  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:08:25pm

re: #157 M. Bensson-Levi

Heh.

166 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:08:30pm
167 freedombilly  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:09:21pm

I have lobbied in the past to have all posts by Salamantis on ID threads receive an up-ding by me automatically. I think I would like to also request an automatic down-ding for all right-is-right comments.

Thank you in advance Charles.

168 Dustyvet  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:09:22pm

re: #14 ArmyWife

According to this well thought out theory nothing ever stops growing. This totally explains why I was 5'2 at the age of 13 and now, at the age of 37 I am....5'2.

In Jump boots I'm 6' 4"...in sock feet I'm 4' 9"...:)

169 Dan G.  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:09:29pm

re: #166 SpaceJesus

Forced sterilization isn't the answer, Adolph.

170 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:09:40pm

re: #155 dentate

The greatest ally of fascism, Islamo- or any other form, is willful stupidity and an inability or unwillingness to think. It's scary.

What's really frightening is viewing the abandon in which they revel in this ignorance. It's a badge of pride to them.

171 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:09:44pm

re: #166 SpaceJesus

someone needs to install a high intensity x-ray machine and disguise it as a metal detector at the entrance to this museum. these people should not be allowed to reproduce.

Why not just fire up the ovens?

172 pingjockey  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:10:31pm

re: #166 SpaceJesus
That is right out!

173 Dar ul Harbarian  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:10:36pm

re: #53 Racer X

34% of Americans believe in ghosts.
34% believe in UFOs
29% believe in astrology
25% reincarnation
24% witches


53% believe in something more dangerous

174 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:10:57pm

re: #166 SpaceJesus

You fucking idiot.

175 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:11:04pm

re: #59 Killgore Trout

Sobering stuff. Even Romania is significantly ahead of the US on this.

Romania.

176 J.S.  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:11:05pm

re: #166 SpaceJesus

Why? Do you figure that thoughts and ideas are "inherited?" eh? Go back and read about Evolutionary Theory...

177 pingjockey  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:11:39pm

re: #174 MandyManners
Tactful as ever! {Mandy}

178 Dan G.  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:11:45pm

Moby? Is that you?

179 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:11:46pm

re: #160 unclassifiable

Sorry to say that the anti-science trend got started in the late 60's as a anti-establishment stance against the evils of science that fed the War machine.

Look at the import of Eastern Mysticism and the fascination with various tribal pagan beliefs and rituals.

And astrology, tarot cards, palm reading and all of the rest...

In short, it became cool to be ignorant.

So why not the Christian Fundamentalist also?

I mean look who is in power. Look at who dominates the airwaves. Look at the cult of Global Warming, of Gaia, ect, etc.

It really was a destructive time in the U.S. and we are reaping the whirlwind.

With a certain group of Christian Fundamentalist (and certain Christians in general), being anti-science has been cool for over a 100 years. This is far from a new phenomena.

180 Jetpilot1101  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:12:02pm

Good evening Lizards, just got back from school. How many meltdowns today so far?

181 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:12:20pm

re: #175 Jimmah

Sobering stuff. Even Romania is significantly ahead of the US on this.

Romania.

(To the tune of "How Dry I Am":)

"Romania,
Romania,
It borders on
The Adriatic."

182 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:12:49pm

re: #166 SpaceJesus

someone needs to install a high intensity x-ray machine and disguise it as a metal detector at the entrance to this museum. these people should not be allowed to reproduce.

What are you suggesting?

183 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:12:50pm

re: #180 Jetpilot1101

Good evening Lizards, just got back from school. How many meltdowns today so far?

One, in progress right now.

Can't say about any more.

184 pingjockey  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:12:56pm

I'll see you good folks later. We have a new pup and I have been puppy deprived all day!

185 Kenneth  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:12:59pm

re: #174 MandyManners

How`s that assertiveness training coming?

186 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:13:17pm
187 BignJames  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:13:17pm

re: #174 MandyManners

You have such a great understanding of language....really.

188 jaunte  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:13:35pm

re: #166 SpaceJesus

This has been a red-letter day for doltishness.

189 dentate  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:13:49pm

re: #166 SpaceJesus

someone needs to install a high intensity x-ray machine and disguise it as a metal detector at the entrance to this museum. these people should not be allowed to reproduce.

Hey! Nature does not have morals or reason. Maybe the creationists have a selective advantage--more surviving offspring than people who think--and they could be the direction that evolution is taking us! Idiocy may be a trait currently favored by natural selection. Dodos lost their ability to fly, due to natural selection, and did great until sailors with guns showed up. People with vestigial brains may be similar.

190 BlueCanuck  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:13:50pm

re: #160 unclassifiable

Yes, high tech is bad. Nuclear science is bad, it gave us Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Chemistry is bad, it gave us DDT. These people are driving us back into the gutter of history. Nuclear science has given us cheap power, medicines that track disease and destroy cancers. Chemistry has given us too many wonders to name in one post. People like that are what I unaffectionaly refer to as neo-luddites. These people won't be happy until we are all back in an agrarian society with all the disease, filth, and ignorance that entails. They look to the ground when we should be looking to the stars.

191 hazzyday  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:13:59pm

re: #151 MandyManners

I wonder how many would support burning books.

given license then book burning and record burning and no music and no dancing would be easy for them to slip into. Religious persecution is still a real and cruel thing.

I think God wants us to work hard and be reasonable people and have faith that things can get better. While having many evangelical relatives, evangelical boneheadedness does a disservice to humankind in the communication age.

I think Congressional Types should tag their websites with their belief or not in evolution. Or the media should do it for them.

192 pingjockey  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:14:05pm

re: #186 buzzsawmonkey
You betcha. On hold right now, Moose and the 8 yr old are playing.

193 unclassifiable  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:14:12pm

re: #179 Walter L. Newton

Yeah. A very small group. But how do you explain the double digit parts of the population (as show in several instance above) who are just totally ignorant.

Full disclosure: I was born in 1961.

194 HelloDare  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:14:20pm

re: #160 unclassifiable

Sorry to say that the anti-science trend got started in the late 60's as a anti-establishment stance against the evils of science that fed the War machine.

DOWN WITH SATELLITES!

195 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:14:27pm

-500 karma.

196 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:14:33pm

OT, but this is really heart warming.

40 years' worth of thanks

197 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:14:56pm

Charles, delete my reply to spaceidiot. I quoted him.

198 Dan G.  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:15:14pm

re: #195 MandyManners

Is that a record?

199 jorline  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:15:45pm

re: #166 SpaceJesus

You were suppose to be a spank the monkey shot into a dirty sock...how did you get here?

200 BlueCanuck  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:16:03pm

re: #185 Kenneth

How`s that assertiveness training coming?

Needs more work, she didn't bring out the clue-by-four.

201 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:16:09pm

re: #198 Dan G.

No- "stretch" is pushing -1000.

202 pingjockey  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:16:18pm

re: #199 jorline
Ouch! That is gonna leave a mark.

203 albusteve  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:16:40pm

re: #196 Sharmuta

OT, but this is really heart warming.

40 years' worth of thanks

cool...thanks for that

204 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:16:40pm

I'm about to say something naughty so I'll take a walk around the house. bbiaw

205 Dan G.  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:16:41pm

re: #196 Sharmuta

That picture is MAGNIFICENT!

206 Basho  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:17:04pm

re: #104 pingjockey

What really pisses me off is the arrogance of those DI folks. We have a universe of wonder out there. It is the height of hubris(I think) to think that this one little ball of water and rock is the only place where there is life. They are short changing the capability of the Supreme Being.

Err... I hope this quote isn't too big... but it is magnificent:
[Link: www.ejectejecteject.com...]

I object to these things not because they are silly, but because they are lazy. They are just, in the final analysis, so incredibly boring, mundane and unimaginative, compared to the real wonders, the authentic magic. Look! A Leprechaun! It's like a man! Only smaller than most men you normally see!

We ooh and ahh at some circles stamped out in a wheat field, but completely ignore pillars of gas and dust so beautiful and so enormous that if you drove fast enough to cross the US in a second, your great�grandchildren would grow old before they reached the end of it. We, a species that can make things from individual atoms, who can decode the history of every living thing on earth, draw maps of the world of a billion years ago, take pictures of the far side of Neptune�s moons, puzzle out virtual particles in a bubbling quantum soup, look into space and time back to the first .0000000000000001 second of the Big Bang and who can conceive of and live their lives by concepts such as honor and justice and freedom, can find enough REAL magic, enough authentic, verifiable wonders to keep us busy for as long as we live. Yet this species stands in line to buy books about a face on Mars and how to keep razor blades sharp by storing them in a pyramid made from popsicle sticks.

We are failing our children if we let a two-dollar piece of particle board obscure the view of the redwood forest just beyond it. Give me half an hour in an observatory with anyone and I will introduce them to wonders they will think about for the rest of their lives.

They are more challenging than flying saucers, sea serpents, or wee people with their pots of gold. To understand them enough to be floored by their magnificence requires a little patience, a little imagination. It does, in fact, require some work.

But these wonders have one powerful advantage. They have the advantage of being real.

207 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:17:09pm

re: #193 unclassifiable

Yeah. A very small group. But how do you explain the double digit parts of the population (as show in several instance above) who are just totally ignorant.

Full disclosure: I was born in 1961.

A small part. I was born in 1952. I went to 12 years of Catholic schools, from 1974 through 1989, I lived in the south. Almost all of the people I knew believed in the 6000 year old earth stuff.

208 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:17:22pm

re: #175 Jimmah

I'm pretty sure we're even further down the list than that poll indicates. Israel, China, Canada, Australia, India and others are not on the list. We are probably pretty much at the bottom of the civilized world, just above the Islamic countries and Africa.

209 Dar ul Harbarian  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:17:31pm

re: #199 jorline

You were suppose to be a spank the monkey shot into a dirty sock...how did you get here?

hole in the sock

210 pingjockey  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:17:46pm

re: #201 Sharmuta
Who the hell is 'stretch'? I can't think of whatshername, but it had a minus something big.

211 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:17:52pm

re: #194 HelloDare

DOWN WITH SATELLITES!

Already working on it.

212 unclassifiable  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:18:27pm

re: #201 Sharmuta

No- "stretch" is pushing -1000.

Holy crap he is lower than anne france?

213 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:19:04pm

re: #196 Sharmuta

OT, but this is really heart warming.

40 years' worth of thanks

Be sure to watch the video. It's only 3 minutes.

214 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:19:21pm

re: #212 unclassifiable

He's lower than anyone, I believe.

215 pingjockey  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:19:26pm

re: #206 Basho
Bravo. Thanks.

216 M. Bensson-Levi  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:19:34pm

re: #160 unclassifiable

Ditto. Add to this Soviet financing for undermining the foundation of American institutions (which I used to think was irrational conspiracy hysteria) and bingo! Obama, and where we are today. Add this too, science courses are HARD, whereas bullsh*t "ology" courses don't require even a moment's thought, let alone lab work. Lazy, ignorant hippies are now running, and ruining our country.

217 jorline  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:20:06pm

re: #209 Dar ul Harbarian

hole in the sock

ding

218 avanti  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:20:12pm

Ever pondered how the religions of the world will deal with first contact with life off the planet ? It'll take major adjustments in the arrogant concept that this pretty insignificant planet is the center of everything.
They may just decide they need more missionaries for off planet conversions.

219 pingjockey  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:20:29pm

re: #212 unclassifiable
That's her, anne fwance. Thought she had the down ding record?!

220 dapperdave  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:20:45pm

You know I would have to go with evolution, after all Charles has turned many lizards into a human at the flick of a switch.

221 VioletTiger  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:21:14pm

re: #196 Sharmuta
Wow. That's amazing.

222 jcbunga  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:21:15pm

The French may be at once the best and worst argument for natural selection.

Argument against: There's no explanation for how they've managed to survive such protracted incompetence, yet they exist.

Argument for: Bring a WWI army to WW2 and you get whupped.

223 pingjockey  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:21:52pm

re: #218 avanti
Mass head explosions.

224 nyc redneck  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:21:53pm

re: #196 Sharmuta

OT, but this is really heart warming.

40 years' worth of thanks

shar, that was so sweet. i loved how he put his hat on w/ such pride before he got out of the car. and she was so nervous to meet him and so truly thankful.
this is what makes us human beings.

225 Last Mohican  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:22:08pm

re: #208 Killgore Trout

I'm pretty sure we're even further down the list than that poll indicates. Israel, China, Canada, Australia, India and others are not on the list. We are probably pretty much at the bottom of the civilized world, just above the Islamic countries and Africa.

In an effort to raise spirits around here, I've just been trying to find a similar poll performed in, say, Saudi Arabia, where one can probably be beheaded for expressing belief in evolution.

In looking for polls conducted in Saudi Arabia, I have to say, I'm not using the search phrase "civilized world."

226 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:22:32pm

re: #218 avanti

Ever pondered how the religions of the world will deal with first contact with life off the planet ? It'll take major adjustments in the arrogant concept that this pretty insignificant planet is the center of everything.
They may just decide they need more missionaries for off planet conversions.

How would you deal with it?

227 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:22:47pm

re: #166 SpaceJesus

someone needs to install a high intensity x-ray machine and disguise it as a metal detector at the entrance to this museum. these people should not be allowed to reproduce.

What a sick idea. Still - heh!

228 BlueCanuck  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:22:50pm

re: #196 Sharmuta

I am crying, that is so beautiful.

/okay, I do get emotional sometimes.

229 jorline  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:23:19pm

re: #219 pingjockey

That's her, anne fwance. Thought she had the down ding record?!

AnneFrance produced that number with a single post.

She had so many down-dings you couldn't even read all the names...lol

230 Dustyvet  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:23:23pm

re: #222 jcbunga

The French may be at once the best and worst argument for natural selection.

Argument against: There's no explanation for how they've managed to survive such protracted incompetence, yet they exist.

Argument for: Bring a WWI army to WW2 and you get whupped.

Q: What Does "Maginot Line" mean in French?

A: "Speed bump ahead"

231 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:24:01pm

re: #227 Jimmah

Not funny. So you are suggesting mass sterilization for these people?

232 Summer Seale  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:24:04pm

I like to look at the Creation Museum in a positive light - glass half full sort of thing.

I view it as a gorgeously crafted monument to stubborn ignorance for all to see.

At least let some good come from it. =)

233 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:24:09pm

re: #225 Last Mohican

In Many Islamic countries (especially Saudi Arabia) even asking the question would be blasphemous. There's no way they'd allow it.

234 Basho  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:24:17pm

re: #227 Jimmah

What a sick idea. Still - heh!

He is the Socrates of the blogosphere. History may prove him right ;)

235 kywrite  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:24:22pm

re: #40 the1sgjohns

63% - Reject Darwin's Theory of Evolution

And there you have it

Except -- they lump together pure creationism (God made 'em all, dang it!) and the much more moderate guided-evolution (things evolved under the guidance of God) in the same category. The second one does NOT reject evolution, only the insistence that God had absolutely nothing to do with it. I would have left it in three categories, or I would have lumped guided-evolution in with pure Darwinism. Neither rejects scientific data; one just allows for the idea that we don't know everything and probably can't know everything.

I certainly, however, do not believe creationism should be taught in the classroom, but rather in philosophy class or in Sunday school. Science is science, and faith is faith. It beggars faith to insist that science prove faith-based theories.

236 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:24:35pm

I cannot believe people have dinged up No. 166. Supporting the forced sterilzation of those who do not believe a certain thing is disgusting.

237 dapperdave  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:24:39pm

re: #225 Last Mohican

Don't the Muslims say that the Jews evolve from pigs and apes?

238 pingjockey  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:24:46pm

re: #226 Walter L. Newton
Hope like hell we aren't on their menu. We can't get a ship to Mars, which is next door. but these folks are traveling light years. Their technology will be indistinguishable from magic.(Arthur C. Clarke)

239 thefallingman  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:25:35pm
gives them an excuse to look down their Gallic noses at Americans


Yeah, but the French also look down on us because we have lower unemployment than they do. Not sure how shocking this is.

240 M. Bensson-Levi  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:25:44pm

re: #158 buzzsawmonkey

Brutus, however, was the first person to be reprimanded for running with Caesars.

LOL! You are brilliantly twisted.

241 zuckerlilly  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:26:14pm

The belief in creationism and ID is rising very fast in Europe. For a long time Europeans thought this would be only a problem in the US but finally they had to recognize that it is a serious problem in Europe too.

242 dentate  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:26:23pm

re: #238 pingjockey

Hope like hell we aren't on their menu. We can't get a ship to Mars, which is next door. but these folks are traveling light years. Their technology will be indistinguishable from magic.(Arthur C. Clarke)

To Serve Man

243 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:26:25pm
244 EndlessBob  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:26:27pm

Besides, everyone knows this is what really happened to the dinosaurs... and unicorns... and pixie dust fairies!

245 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:26:55pm

re: #227 Jimmah

What a sick idea. Still - heh!

No, not "heh." You are advocating the same genocide of 70 years ago... and modern Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Gaza, Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah, England, France...

246 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:26:58pm

I'm glad you guys liked the Fireman and his rescued baby girl reunion. I was touched too, and that's why I thought I'd share it. Gratitude can be its own reward.

247 WindHorse  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:27:11pm

re: #213 Sharmuta

Sharmuta, once again... such a very cool contribution. Thank you.

248 pingjockey  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:27:25pm

re: #242 dentate
I knew someone would bring that out. I love the Twilight Zone.

249 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:27:35pm

re: #241 zuckerlilly

The belief in creationism and ID is rising very fast in Europe. For a long time Europeans thought this would be only a problem in the US but finally they had to recognize that it is a serious problem in Europe too.

Is a lot of it due to islamic creationism? Harun Yayah's influence?

250 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:27:45pm

re: #241 zuckerlilly

The belief in creationism and ID is rising very fast in Europe. For a long time Europeans thought this would be only a problem in the US but finally they had to recognize that it is a serious problem in Europe too.

Is the number rising due to the number of Muslim immigrants?

251 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:28:00pm

re: #226 Walter L. Newton

How would you deal with it?

I, for one, welcome our new [to be decided] overlords.

252 jcbunga  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:28:11pm

re: #196 Sharmuta

OT, but this is really heart warming.

40 years' worth of thanks

That was wonderful, thanks. Great at the end of a long day.

253 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:28:20pm

Aw, come on. SpaceJesus isn't so bad. He's like the next door neighbor's chihuahua who tries to bite your ankle sometimes, and you just kick him and he goes back to the doghouse. But when a burglar comes into the yard he raises holy hell and scares them away.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this metaphor, but it feels right somehow.

254 pingjockey  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:28:37pm

Later folks. Keep the clue bats handy.

255 avanti  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:28:49pm

re: #226 Walter L. Newton

How would you deal with it?

I'd bet, somewhere there are contingency plans for just such a event. It would be a major disruption to society as we know it, especially if it was intelligent life more advanced then we are, but any life found would shake up our concept of how special we think we are.

256 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:28:56pm
257 Basho  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:29:00pm

re: #253 Charles

ROFL
I love SpaceJesus.

258 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:29:21pm

re: #236 MandyManners

I cannot believe people have dinged up No. 166. Supporting the forced sterilzation of those who do not believe a certain thing is disgusting.

I can Mandy. The one thing I see which surprises me the most, is where someone's cut off point is for bigotry. It happens here and on other blogs all the time.

We've seen Lizards here meltdown because suddenly they slip, they let out that they do have some desire to lump a whole group together and suggest some sort of punishment.

It almost makes me want to run away and forget about the whole thing. LGF is anti-idiotarian, but not immune to the occasional idiot. Sickens me to no end.

259 Last Mohican  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:29:24pm

Percentage of Americans who believe in Creationism: 63%
Percentage of French people who believe in Obama-ism: 96%

Cheer up, Yanks.

260 unclassifiable  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:29:42pm

re: #207 Walter L. Newton

So did I and Catholics and Catholic schools were in the minority were I grew up. I must have run in a different crowd because most of the folks I knew could not give a rip about anything except pay day, sports, the beverage or smoke of choice, and practicing procreation...

... not that there is anything wrong with that but learning math, physics, biology, and philosophy was for nerds.

261 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:29:58pm

re: #238 pingjockey

Hope like hell we aren't on their menu. We can't get a ship to Mars, which is next door. but these folks are traveling light years. Their technology will be indistinguishable from magic.(Arthur C. Clarke)

Maybe they just want to serve Man.

262 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:30:09pm

re: #210 pingjockey

Who the hell is 'stretch'? I can't think of whatshername, but it had a minus something big.

AnneFrance

263 Basho  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:30:23pm

re: #255 avanti

I'd bet, somewhere there are contingency plans for just such a event. It would be a major disruption to society as we know it, especially if it was intelligent life more advanced then we are, but any life found would shake up our concept of how special we think we are.

I think PopSci or Popular Mechanics had a story of the FBI's response to an alien landing.

All I remember from it is that if the ship had no fumes they would immediately assume it is nuclear power and take appropriate measures to secure it.

264 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:30:50pm

re: #243 Iron Fist

I actually enjoyed The Day After Tomorrow. As long as you take it as pure fiction it is a pretty good tale. It is about as grounded in science as John Carpenter's The Thing, though.

I liked the idea of 1) global warming, which 2) produces an instant, new Ice Age, which 3) instantly flash-freezes the Empire State Building, but which 4) the heroes can escape by closing a door.

Science!

265 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:31:10pm

re: #243 Iron Fist

And speaking of not being able to seperat truth from fiction

Have you ever been to a sci-fi/fantasy con?

266 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:31:36pm

re: #231 Walter L. Newton

Not at all. It was a joke. If it had been a practical suggestion, that would be different - that would just be sick. But there is such a thing as dark humour, and that was an example.

267 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:31:48pm

re: #256 buzzsawmonkey

Allow me to point out, by the way, that the Creation Museum gets the Bible wrong:

Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, male and female; and of beasts that are not clean by twos, male and female. Of birds of the air, also by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive on the face of all the earth. Genesis 7: 2, 3.

This means seven pairs of "clean," i.e., kosher animals; two pairs of the non-kosher animals, and seven pairs of each bird.

The Museum folks, however, seem to have missed this.

That's because they use the Bible only, and not the tradition that is needed to properly interpret it, the Talmud.

268 nyc redneck  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:32:57pm

re: #232 Summer

I like to look at the Creation Museum in a positive light - glass half full sort of thing.

I view it as a gorgeously crafted monument to stubborn ignorance for all to see.

At least let some good come from it. =)

i would actually like to see it. i would view it as kind of a road side attraction created by people w/ no scientific knowledge of the subject that inspired them.
because that is exactly what it is.

269 dentate  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:33:04pm

re: #267 Kosh's Shadow

That's because they use the Bible only, and not the tradition that is needed to properly interpret it, the Talmud.

You need the Talmud to figure out that 7 is not 2?

270 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:33:06pm
271 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:33:08pm

re: #266 Jimmah

Not at all. It was a joke. If it had been a practical suggestion, that would be different - that would just be sick. But there is such a thing as dark humour, and that was an example.

Not funny, and no one else thought so either. Check up thread.

272 Jetpilot1101  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:33:40pm

re: #267 Kosh's Shadow

That's because they use the Bible only, and not the tradition that is needed to properly interpret it, the Talmud.

Pardon my ignorance, but could you briefly explain the Talmud to me? I assume it is a Hebrew text but I haven't the foggiest clue what it is.

273 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:33:54pm
274 avanti  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:34:04pm

re: #238 pingjockey

Hope like hell we aren't on their menu. We can't get a ship to Mars, which is next door. but these folks are traveling light years. Their technology will be indistinguishable from magic.(Arthur C. Clarke)

And they might look at us like cute little critters that play with crude toys. I once read a article about how wrong headed the search for E.T. might be. It might turn out as badly as what happened to "savage" populations on earth that were wiped out by only slightly more advanced invaders.

275 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:34:12pm

re: #262 reine.de.tout

AnneFrance

That was just one comment though- I think it's the all time record holder for dingdowns on a single comment.

And I take it back. "stretch" is at -2044.

276 zuckerlilly  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:34:15pm

re: #249 Sharmuta

Is a lot of it due to islamic creationism? Harun Yayah's influence?


partly but also of the rising numbers of Evangelicals in Europe.

277 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:34:53pm

re: #276 zuckerlilly

partly but also of the rising numbers of Evangelicals in Europe.

Interesting- thanks.

278 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:35:07pm

re: #265 victor_yugo

Have you ever been to a sci-fi/fantasy con?

Several times, back when I was in college. There were a wide variety of people, some well grounded, and others who were in another universe.
I actually ran conventions at college; had Ben Bova, Gordon Dickson, and Jerry Pournelle give talks. (I didn't run the last one, but we still had Pournelle in our apartment after his talk. BTW, he loves Ouzo, or did, back then.)
And Gordon Dickson drank like his reputation; when we got him to his hotel, the first thing he did was take out a box from his suitcase and offer us drinks from his bar.

279 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:35:38pm

re: #269 dentate

You need the Talmud to figure out that 7 is not 2?

No, to know the numbers are pairs, not individuals.

280 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:35:41pm

re: #245 victor_yugo

Oh yes, and every time I laugh at a 'priest in a liquidiser' joke I'm advocating the slaughter of priests in liquidisers - come on. A joke is a freakin joke.

281 Macker  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:35:49pm

Hello everyone.
Yesterday I was at the chiropractor when, after I was finished with my adjustments, a lower back joint was thrown out of whack by my throwing my leg up for a shoe way too fast and way too awkward. For an hour, I had to sit in an upright position, I was unable to move without excruciating pain. Eventually, the chiropractor gave me some herbal painkillers, and they acted to alleviate it enough, so I was eventually able to slowly get up and walk...with a pretty pink cane.
Thank God my girlfriend, whom I shall call the Lady E, who had just flown in from Michigan to visit me, was able to drive me home. She is a Godsend and is helping me recuperate. She is spoiling me. That doesn’t mean...for you folks out there who may have a spouse or significant other...that you should get injured somehow!
Needless to say, I am still in some pain, and this is going to take a while. Please keep us in your prayers.
And with this post, I'll sign off....you're all welcome to send me e-mail get wells. I'll be back, OK!

Thanks!

282 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:36:12pm

re: #256 buzzsawmonkey

This means seven pairs of "clean," i.e., kosher animals; two pairs of the non-kosher animals, and seven pairs of each bird.

The other pairs were for dinner. That way, Noah et al. wouldn't have to break kashrut. By the end of the trip, there were just as many kosher animals as there were traif.

283 dentate  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:36:20pm

I missed the part of the museum where they showed Noah's collections of nematodes and bacteria.

284 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:36:46pm

re: #260 unclassifiable

So did I and Catholics and Catholic schools were in the minority were I grew up. I must have run in a different crowd because most of the folks I knew could not give a rip about anything except pay day, sports, the beverage or smoke of choice, and practicing procreation...

... not that there is anything wrong with that but learning math, physics, biology, and philosophy was for nerds.

Thank you for the compliment, loved your "but," there's nothing wring "but," sorry I was a nerd. Excuse me.

285 SpaceJesus  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:36:56pm

I can't be the only person on this website with a sense of humor

286 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:36:58pm
287 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:37:05pm
288 unclassifiable  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:37:25pm

re: #275 Sharmuta

Soon to be at the suckzillion range.

289 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:37:25pm

There's another pro-robert downdinger at work on the spencer thread.

290 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:37:30pm

re: #272 Jetpilot1101

Pardon my ignorance, but could you briefly explain the Talmud to me? I assume it is a Hebrew text but I haven't the foggiest clue what it is.

Traditionally, it is the oral part of the Torah, given to Moses at Sinai. It was not to be written down, but finally was, when those who knew it were being killed, IIRC by the Romans. That is the "Mishna". It was quite abbreviated, and had "Gemara", or more interpretation, added later; the combination is the Talmud. It largely reads like a stream of consciousness law book.

291 Last Mohican  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:37:30pm

re: #268 nyc redneck

i would actually like to see it. i would view it as kind of a road side attraction created by people w/ no scientific knowledge of the subject that inspired them.
because that is exactly what it is.

I'm really not proud of this, but I want to visit the Creation Museum too. I love this "lizards are just small dinosaurs," "atheism is the religion of naturalism" stuff.

And while I'm making shameful confessions, I'll admit that I also used to hang around the Ron Paul websites to see what they were talking about. Particularly during the period when they were absolutely convinced that their boycott had brought Fox News to the brink of bankruptcy in a mere five days.

292 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:37:48pm
293 Jetpilot1101  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:38:01pm

re: #276 zuckerlilly

partly but also of the rising numbers of Evangelicals in Europe.

Not all evangelicals are young earth creationists (earthbats). I myself am an evangelical Christian and wholeheartedly believe in evolution as well. I think you will find that those of us who choose to follow Christ but also use our God-given talents of critical reasoning are able to reconcile the two.

294 unclassifiable  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:38:05pm

re: #284 Walter L. Newton

So was I

295 Dustyvet  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:38:13pm

re: #285 SpaceJesus

Never mind, back in your box lad...

296 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:38:20pm

re: #280 Jimmah

Oh yes, and every time I laugh at a 'priest in a liquidiser' joke I'm advocating the slaughter of priests in liquidisers - come on. A joke is a freakin joke.

When you get the same opinion from a number of different people, and they are basically strangers, does it ever strike you as a good idea to stop for a second and contemplate why you got the same answer from different people?

297 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:38:22pm

re: #285 SpaceJesus

I can't be the only person on this website with a sense of humor

What's humorous about forced sterilization?

298 HelloDare  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:38:35pm

re: #283 dentate

I missed the part of the museum where they showed Noah's collections of nematodes and bacteria.

The e-coli bacteria was on the poop deck.

299 dentate  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:38:36pm

re: #273 buzzsawmonkey

the reference to "clean" and "not clean" animals reference the laws of kashrut.

Which Noah would not have understood, since those laws were given to Moses; but of course the Torah exists outside of time. Nothing's perfect, I'm afraid.

300 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:39:13pm

re: #286 buzzsawmonkey

If the Supreme Court decisions are the explanation of what the Constitution means, the Talmud is the corresponding explanation of what the Bible means.

So does the Talmud also have "emanations and penumbras"?

301 SpaceJesus  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:39:14pm

re: #253 Charles

Aw, come on. SpaceJesus isn't so bad. He's like the next door neighbor's chihuahua who tries to bite your ankle sometimes, and you just kick him and he goes back to the doghouse. But when a burglar comes into the yard he raises holy hell and scares them away.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this metaphor, but it feels right somehow.


sometimes I just feel so misunderstood

302 Jetpilot1101  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:39:38pm

re: #286 buzzsawmonkey

Thank you for that explanation.

303 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:39:44pm
304 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:40:04pm

re: #301 SpaceJesus

sometimes I just feel so misunderstood

So does a 15-year-old.

Grow up.

305 unclassifiable  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:40:14pm

re: #294 unclassifiable

So was I

In fact I still am.

306 SpaceJesus  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:40:14pm

re: #297 MandyManners

What's humorous about forced sterilization?


I didn't say anything about forcing them to be sterilized. They'd be voluntarily walking into their own Flintstone's Museum

307 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:40:22pm
308 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:40:34pm

re: #274 avanti

And they might look at us like cute little critters that play with crude toys. I once read a article about how wrong headed the search for E.T. might be. It might turn out as badly as what happened to "savage" populations on earth that were wiped out by only slightly more advanced invaders.

Interstellar travel is likely to be quite expensive, so we might not see fleets of spacecraft, but it wouldn't take much to destroy us if aliens wanted to.
A novel I'm working on involves basically the aliens tricking ourselves into destroying our own civilization. It is meant, though, to point out what we're doing to ourselves even without aliens tricking us. Unless Al Gore really is an alien.

309 Macker  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:41:07pm

re: #253 Charles

Aw, come on. SpaceJesus isn't so bad. He's like the next door neighbor's chihuahua who tries to bite your ankle sometimes, and you just kick him and he goes back to the doghouse. But when a burglar comes into the yard he raises holy hell and scares them away.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this metaphor, but it feels right somehow.

Yo quiero Taco Bell?

310 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:41:22pm

re: #271 Walter L. Newton

Wrong! At lest three folks - Me, Basho and spacejesus - thought it was funny.

311 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:41:26pm

re: #299 dentate

but of course the Torah exists outside of time

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Or, not agree to disagree, which is pretty much the same thing.

312 Basho  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:41:35pm

re: #285 SpaceJesus

Dear SpaceJesus,

I made reservations at an expensive restaurant for Valentine's Day so I could take my girlfriend on a romantic dinner. However, today I heard her say that Texas is "totally rad". What do you think I should do?

-Basho

313 BlueCanuck  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:42:03pm

re: #281 Macker

Ah hell, that sucks. But I agree with you. Being nursed by the love of your life is a wonderful thing. The part that sucks is that if you need to be nursed, that's all that's going to happen. :p

/been there done that, got the antibiotics.

314 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:42:05pm

re: #289 Sharmuta

There's another pro-robert downdinger at work on the spencer thread.

Name?

315 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:42:21pm

re: #307 buzzsawmonkey

Oh, you bet.

Those durn liberal activist rabbis!

316 Basho  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:42:34pm

re: #301 SpaceJesus

sometimes I just feel so misunderstood

C'est le vie of the blogosphere's Socrates.

317 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:42:47pm

re: #285 SpaceJesus

I can't be the only person on this website with a sense of humor

Now THAT'S the first funny comment I've seen outta you.

318 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:42:58pm

re: #306 SpaceJesus

I didn't say anything about forcing them to be sterilized. They'd be voluntarily walking into their own Flintstone's Museum

You said they shouldn't be allowed to reproduce.

GAZE

319 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:43:01pm
320 Killer Tomato  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:43:08pm

re: #258 Walter L. Newton

We've seen Lizards here meltdown because suddenly they slip, they let out that they do have some desire to lump a whole group together and suggest some sort of punishment.

hmmm....
too bad this isn't the FNDT.
;-)

321 SpaceJesus  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:44:00pm

re: #312 Basho

Dear SpaceJesus,

I made reservations at an expensive restaurant for Valentine's Day so I could take my girlfriend on a romantic dinner. However, today I heard her say that Texas is "totally rad". What do you think I should do?

-Basho


only if we go out to see the movie Beverly Hills Chihuahua first then you buy me lots of wine (no roofies)

322 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:44:22pm

re: #310 Jimmah

The heat found it funny too - that's at least four now.

323 Dustyvet  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:44:46pm

re: #321 SpaceJesus

Where's the brain bleach?

324 BlueCanuck  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:44:51pm

re: #320 Killer Tomato

It is for me. *hic*

325 SpaceJesus  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:44:55pm

re: #318 victor_yugo

You said they shouldn't be allowed to reproduce.

GAZE


It was a joke


BLANK STARE

326 dentate  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:45:20pm

re: #315 Occasional Reader

Those durn liberal activist rabbis!

That is pretty much exactly what they were. The intellectual exercises they went through to base accepted practice on Torah precedent were truly amazing.
You know, those Talmudic scholars would have had no problem whatever reconciling evolution by natural selection with the Biblical creation story.

327 dentate  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:45:57pm

re: #319 buzzsawmonkey

'Night, all. Watch out for wingless birds with hairy feathers.

That sounds slightly obscene.

328 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:46:02pm

re: #320 Killer Tomato

hmmm....
too bad this isn't the FNDT.
;-)

What?

329 unclassifiable  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:47:47pm

re: #328 Walter L. Newton

Friday
Night
Drinking
Thread

330 BlueCanuck  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:47:56pm

BBIAB, time to search for munchies and other . . . stuff.

331 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:48:06pm

re: #325 SpaceJesus

It was a joke


BLANK STARE

You need a new joke writer.

332 Basho  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:49:13pm

re: #321 SpaceJesus

Dear SpaceJesus,

While that sounds like fun, I still have the issue of being stuck with a reservation for me and my Texas-loving girlfriend. Any tips on getting out of this sticky situation? (Nothing involving Mentos, I tried that)

Thanks again,
-Basho

333 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:50:46pm

re: #296 Walter L. Newton

When you get the same opinion from a number of different people, and they are basically strangers, does it ever strike you as a good idea to stop for a second and contemplate why you got the same answer from different people?

No. In fact the idea that my impression of whether something is funny or not should be based on anything other than it's ability to make me laugh is completely alien to me. It would certainly never be based on the opinion of others in the vicinity - a very bovine suggestion if you ask me.

334 Boxy_brown  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:51:33pm

I read this stuff and I have to say... I honestly didn't think anyone really believed it. As a child I went to Sunday school whenever I could be dragged away from the cartoons and stuffed into a suit (My older brothers unhappy task) but we weren't even taught creationism there.

It's not like it comes up every day in trivial conversation. I honestly didn't think that there were many people truly believed this and were willing to advocate it so passionately. I would say that I ought to get out more but then again, maybe not.

By the way: If this were all to go away tomorrow the French would find something else negative about our culture to latch on to in order to make themselves feel better about themselves.

335 Killer Tomato  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:53:40pm

re: #328 Walter L. Newton

Firemen, Marines, Navy Seals....

(Sorry, Walter - it was a joke. You mentioned 'groups' and 'punishment'. Cripes - don't you know me better than to think.. whatever you were thinking?)

336 Basho  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:55:15pm

re: #334 Boxy_brown

Agreed. I went to religious schools from 5 yrs old to 17, and I never once thought Genesis was anything but a story. I mean, talking snake? C'mon.

I remember very clearly at 8 years old, when I had a fascination with dinosaurs, having an intrinsic knowledge of evolution. (Though I knew nothing of genetics and possibly natural selection)

337 slokat  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:56:03pm

re: #292 buzzsawmonkey

Be that as it may, it shoots the "two by two" thing to pieces.

The first reference is, "you are to bring into the ark, two of all living creatures, male and female"...

your reference comes several sentences after this.

Both versions are there.

338 kywrite  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:57:15pm

re: #253 Charles

I hope you forgot the sarc tag on that one -- you can't be an annoying chihuahua if you think genocide is funny. Love you, Charles, but definitely can't agree w/ you giving him a little pat on the head for that one when the rest of the house isn't looking.

339 Scorch  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:57:15pm

re: #238 pingjockey

Hope like hell we aren't on their menu. We can't get a ship to Mars, which is next door. but these folks are traveling light years. Their technology will be indistinguishable from magic.(Arthur C. Clarke)


I did see a large object cross our carrier in the Med one night and return a few minutes later on a reciprocal heading. No sound at all. Of course it could of been Khadafi cruising around in a hang glider but it would of had to be one hell of a big one.

340 SpaceJesus  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:57:29pm

re: #332 Basho


Dear Basho,

Stay at a holiday inn express right before your date. You will discover once you awaken that the secrets of the universe have all been revealed to you.


- SJ

341 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:58:11pm

re: #321 SpaceJesus

only if we go out to see the movie Beverly Hills Chihuahua first then you buy me lots of wine (no roofies)

A friend of mine worked on that movie!

342 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:59:22pm

re: #340 SpaceJesus

Stay at a holiday inn express right before your date. You will discover once you awaken that the secrets of the universe have all been revealed to you

Damn- here I thought it was bong hits.

343 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:59:24pm

re: #338 kywrite

I hope you forgot the sarc tag on that one -- you can't be an annoying chihuahua if you think genocide is funny. Love you, Charles, but definitely can't agree w/ you giving him a little pat on the head for that one when the rest of the house isn't looking.

Wow, you caught me. I thought I could get away with it if only 2,819 people were looking.

Hey! Your fly's open!

344 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:00:45pm

re: #326 dentate

That is pretty much exactly what they were. The intellectual exercises they went through to base accepted practice on Torah precedent were truly amazing.
You know, those Talmudic scholars would have had no problem whatever reconciling evolution by natural selection with the Biblical creation story.

Some rabbis do, some don't.
Kabbalists are really amazing, in that some came up with a creation story that sounds quite a bit like the scientific one, including a universe 15 billion years old, and life on Earth, 2.5 billion years old.
However, the Chabad rabbis where I go believe the universe was created 5769 years ago, but it was created already billions of years old.

345 M. Bensson-Levi  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:00:54pm

re: #272 Jetpilot1101

Pardon my ignorance, but could you briefly explain the Talmud to me? I assume it is a Hebrew text but I haven't the foggiest clue what it is.

LOL, but only if you know what the Talmud is. The Talmud is the assembled text of the decisions made from hundreds of years of legalistic arguments about the interpretation of the Law, that is the Torah, The Five Books of Moses (ignoring the Sixth Book, which deals exclusively with Knock-Knock jokes). Not even G-d can briefly explain it.

"Could you briefly explain the Torah to me", on the other hand, is easily answered. "What is hateful to you, do not do to others. The rest is commentary."...Rabbi Hillel.

346 Boxy_brown  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:01:55pm

re: #336 Basho

"I went to religious schools from 5 yrs old to 17, and I never once thought Genesis was anything but a story. "

That was it, "a Story" , parables to hopefully give you sense of morality.

How can you raise a kid to be a doctor when he rejects the idea of evolutionary aspects of illness or genes or whatever?

Another case of people taking the wrong message away from the lesson.

347 Maui Girl  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:02:41pm

I see that the world is still in the "Blame Bush" mode. Now it's his fault that creationism is what it is. What next.

348 SpaceJesus  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:02:45pm

re: #341 Jimmah

A friend of mine worked on that movie!


I have nothing but jealousy for him. That movie looked like a cornucopia of awesome and intellectual stimulation

349 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:03:18pm

re: #346 Boxy_brown


That was it, "a Story" , parables to hopefully give you sense of morality.

How can you raise a kid to be a doctor when he rejects the idea of evolutionary aspects of illness or genes or whatever?

Another case of people taking the wrong message away from the lesson.

Genesis is G-d giving His credentials, so the rest of the Torah follows.
Basically "I made the universe, so I can give My chosen people any part of it I want."

350 Boxy_brown  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:05:17pm

re: #349 Kosh's Shadow

Basically "I made the universe, so I can give My chosen people any part of it I want."

From what I have been seeing/hearing lately, it's all yours. ;-)

351 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:05:35pm

re: #201 Sharmuta

No- "stretch" is pushing -1000.

As of ^^^^^^^^:

Karma: -2,044
stretch
Registered since: Mar 13, 2008 at 7:18 pm
No. of comments posted: 299
No. of links posted: 0

352 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:07:04pm

re: #348 SpaceJesus

I have nothing but jealousy for him. That movie looked like a cornucopia of awesome and intellectual stimulation

Me too. I want in on the sequel. Might have to find some dirt on my friend to make that happen...

353 Salamantis  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:09:25pm

re: #71 the1sgjohns

Still doesn't explain the pre-Cambrian explosion.

The so-called Cambrian 'explosion' lasted longer than the time from the extinction of the dinosaurs 65 million years ago until now. What happened was that some organisms evolved the ability of directed locomotion (swimming); these purposively mobile organisms had at their disposal a plethora of static food sources and no natural enemies, so practically every nonlethal mutation could thrive. Then mobile predators developed, and an evolutionary arms race ensued between predator and prey.

354 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:10:56pm

Second down-dinger: jimc.

355 Basho  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:13:11pm

re: #353 Salamantis

Never really knew what the Cambrian explosion was. Thanks for the great summary. Any info on the Burgess Shale? (I know I messed up the spelling) I've been wondering what the big deal with that is.

356 kywrite  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:14:53pm

re: #343 Charles

Wow, you caught me. I thought I could get away with it if only 2,819 people were looking.

Hey! Your fly's open!

That one doesn't work on a girl. Try -- boob buttons. That generally does it.

/for those who don't get that, ask any girl with big uns.

357 winston06  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:16:07pm

Charles, I am with you on evolution but who cares what the French or any European thinks about America and her people? I am not even an American and have no beef in this, to be honest. But since when French opinion really mattered to most patriotic Americans? They don't like America for 101 other reasons (which are all wrong) and we don't care. I believe you shouldn't really bother if the crazy French don't like you on this either.

358 Basho  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:16:24pm

re: #356 kywrite

Tell me more...

359 Dustyvet  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:17:23pm

Nude photo of Madonna auctioned for $37,500 in NYC


Ridicules!

360 kywrite  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:17:51pm

re: #358 Basho

Tell me more...

Dream on. . .

;)

361 winston06  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:18:29pm

re: #359 Dustyvet

she's a 3rd rate singer and a former sex bomb. LOL

362 kywrite  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:18:55pm

re: #359 Dustyvet

Hopefully from early in her career, not in her current cougar gotta-wear-a-corset stage.

363 Salamantis  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:20:29pm

re: #355 Basho

Never really knew what the Cambrian explosion was. Thanks for the great summary. Any info on the Burgess Shale? (I know I messed up the spelling) I've been wondering what the big deal with that is.

That's where the Cambrian fossils were first discovered. Stephen Jay Gould wrote an excellent book about it.

364 Basho  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:20:47pm

re: #357 winston06

Well... it matters if America is becoming a laughing stock over this nonsensical issue. The French of morally on the right in this, and we should be ashamed.

365 Basho  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:21:26pm

re: #363 Salamantis

Boy is my face red. Thanks a lot!

366 Dan G.  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:21:56pm

re: #356 kywrite

nippin' out?

367 Basho  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:22:21pm

re: #364 Basho

The French are** morally on....

Noooo triple post! I feel like a noob.

368 docremulac  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:23:15pm

I must admit, I lie awake at night sobbing my little eyes out worrying about what the French think about me.

While we were preparing to put a man on the moon, they were busy getting their asses kicked by Algeria so if you're keeping score, we win.

Which category? Name it.

369 winston06  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:23:37pm

re: #364 Basho

They should be ashamed of their creation believing Muslim population then. My point is that Americans shouldn't really worry about French's opinion

370 Basho  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:25:27pm

re: #369 winston06

They should be ashamed of their creation believing Muslim population then. My point is that Americans shouldn't really worry about French's opinion

Doesn't make it any less worse for America.

371 Scorch  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:26:30pm

re: #356 kywrite

That one doesn't work on a girl. Try -- boob buttons. That generally does it.

/for those who don't get that, ask any girl with big uns.

Was watching a cooking show a few nights ago when my daughter in law blurted out " She needs to quit wearing those pants, they show too much of her camel toe". Blew my salty dog right out my nostrils.

372 Dan G.  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:26:52pm

re: #371 Scorch

muhaha.

373 kywrite  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:27:11pm

re: #366 Dan G.

nippin' out?

LOL! Trust a guy to read the worst into it. No! It's when a large-bosomed woman wears a button-down shirt. Very few of these often-dainty-buttoned shirts are really suited to the stresses involved in covering those up -- and one button is (strategically?) placed right on the point of highest stress. I have been known to lose buttons, usually at the worst possible time, but usually they just pop open.

The good news for you guys: it leads to more bosomy girls wearing sweaters.

/truthfully, though, your interpretation? Well, let's just say I don't often wear strapless tops. But that's not equivalent in any way to XYZ; if it's hangin' out, you pretty much know, no alert required.

374 winston06  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:27:32pm

re: #370 Basho

I don't see any parallel especially when it comes to how French judge America.

375 kywrite  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:27:56pm

/man, mention boobies and all the guys alert.

376 Banner  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:31:14pm

My argument against creationists goes like this:

So what you're telling me then, is that all of the physical evidence that exists that the earth is older than that is fake, that the earth was created 'with age'?

(they say yes)

Okay, so you're saying that God, the all mighty God that loves us is LYING to us, that he faked everything! Sorry, but I love God too much to believe he's a lying, cheating, con artist like you want me to believe.

(and yes, I have used this on a family member who to this day has not ever responded to it. And it just points out how STUPID this whole argument is.)

377 Dan G.  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:32:49pm

re: #375 kywrite

Duh.

378 Basho  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:33:55pm

re: #373 kywrite

Err... I'm confused. I need pictographs...
/lol, k I'll leave you alone now ;)

379 winston06  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:34:08pm

re: #376 Banner

good one

380 Scorch  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:35:29pm

re: #375 kywrite

/man, mention boobies and all the guys alert.


A day without boobs is like a day without sunshine.

381 Basho  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:35:38pm

re: #374 winston06

Eh, we'll have to agree to disagree. I understand your point, though.

382 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:35:39pm

re: #373 kywrite

LOL! Trust a guy to read the worst into it. No! It's when a large-bosomed woman wears a button-down shirt. Very few of these often-dainty-buttoned shirts are really suited to the stresses involved in covering those up -- and one button is (strategically?) placed right on the point of highest stress. I have been known to lose buttons, usually at the worst possible time, but usually they just pop open.

The good news for you guys: it leads to more bosomy girls wearing sweaters.

/truthfully, though, your interpretation? Well, let's just say I don't often wear strapless tops. But that's not equivalent in any way to XYZ; if it's hangin' out, you pretty much know, no alert required.

Well, riding the subway, there is something to be said to giving a well-endowed woman the seat, and having a view down while standing.
But of course, I was just being polite.

383 Scorch  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:45:24pm

Good night ladies and gents. Been playing dodge a trick question with the USDA most of the day and I'm exhausted.

384 Basho  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:48:42pm

re: #383 Scorch

Night. Hope you have a good weekend.

385 Banner  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:49:50pm

re: #383 Scorch

Oh! I had that one once! And the worst part of it was, the legal agreement they came to with my lawyer? THEY LIED! And did not honor it!

Gotta love the USDA.

386 Basho  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:57:02pm

I should add... I have ties to Europe, so I can see and sympathize where they're coming from. It gives one a nice perspective.

387 lostlakehiker  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:57:36pm

re: #35 Last Mohican

Hah-hah, you silly French people didn't realize that the plural of "brontosaurus" is actually "brontosauruses!"

(I'm trying to find a way to salvage my national pride now that I realize that half of my fellow Americans believe that evolution didn't happen).

There was a French "who wants to be a millionaire" contest some time back in which the question was "what body does the moon orbit"? Is it the sun, the earth, jupiter, or mars? The guy hemmed and hawed, and asked that it be narrowed down to 2. Sun, or earth? He guessed wrong.

And he was wearing a suit and had a good job. So let's not worry that the French are in reality superior.

388 Edge  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:08:03pm

re: #387 lostlakehiker

There was a French "who wants to be a millionaire" contest some time back in which the question was "what body does the moon orbit"? Is it the sun, the earth, jupiter, or mars? The guy hemmed and hawed, and asked that it be narrowed down to 2. Sun, or earth? He guessed wrong.

And he was wearing a suit and had a good job. So let's not worry that the French are in reality superior.

They also polled the audience and 56% thought the sun revolved around the earth. Here it is:

389 lostlakehiker  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:08:59pm

re: #308 Kosh's Shadow

Interstellar travel is likely to be quite expensive, so we might not see fleets of spacecraft, but it wouldn't take much to destroy us if aliens wanted to.
A novel I'm working on involves basically the aliens tricking ourselves into destroying our own civilization. It is meant, though, to point out what we're doing to ourselves even without aliens tricking us. Unless Al Gore really is an alien.

If we knew of an alien civilization, and we were somehow confident that it would never be technically more advanced than we are today, and we knew that they wouldn't dream of taking precautions against attack, we could hose them. It'd be hugely expensive, but here's how it would go: we'd arrange for a gravitational slingshot to boost Juno faster and faster, slingshotting eventually past Pluto and into the boonies. On a perfectly computed orbit, and with a fancy computer onboard powered by decaying uranium, and some engines for terminal guidance.

Wait a few million years, and your bomb is arriving in their solar system. Calculate carefully, from about a light year out, just how to tweak your incoming path so as to hit. Do a guidance burn. After another hundred thousand years or so, your messenger shows up on their radar, coming at them with interstellar velocity and just weeks until impact. Game over.

Of course, if they've managed to settle their asteroid belt, or L5, or what have you, and if they've made a little progress in the meantime and they spot the attack in time to deflect it, you may be getting a friendly reply some time down the road.

Stupid game---winning is of no value whatever, and losing sucks.

390 Miles Smit  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:10:24pm

OK, WHEN did we start caring what the French think?!

391 Jim C.  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:44:42pm

So what? 56% of the French think the Sun revolves around the Earth! (Okay, just the audience of this tv show. See graph at about 0:41.)

392 solomonpanting  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:31:44pm

Creationists believe that dinosaurs and humans were contemporaries.

OMG! The Flinstones actually depicted this belief. Who knew?

393 bruxellesblog  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 11:05:49pm

re: #7 kywrite

At least our creationists don't periodically rampage through the streets burning cars.

Sure. Instead they occasionally put a bullet in the head of a doctor, push nonsense as science in schools, nominate blithering idiots to run for elected office, and pass laws favoring the intrusion of religion into my civil liberties.

Great comparison.

394 ryannon  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 11:26:46pm

re: #164 Kosh's Shadow

Their house will fall.

Po' guys.....

395 BruxellesBlog  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 11:37:34pm

re: #241 zuckerlilly

The belief in creationism and ID is rising very fast in Europe. For a long time Europeans thought this would be only a problem in the US but finally they had to recognize that it is a serious problem in Europe too.

And so is obesity...MMMMWWWWWAAAAAAAAHAHAhahahaahahahah

Rove you magnificent bastard!

396 winston06  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 11:49:43pm

re: #381 Basho

cool

397 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 1:42:34am

re: #314 Charles

Sorry! I didn't see you ask until now- "akak".

398 romancewritr  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 2:45:31am

Like we really care what the French think. Let them get into a conflict where they are not surrendering after a few weeks first. Creationism may not be the answer, but Darwin's theory certainly is not either. Its a great explanation of different varieties within a species, but falls pretty flat when it comes to it's stated purpose "The Origin Of The Species."

399 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 2:48:35am

re: #17 Last Mohican

I have read that over and over, about twenty times now. My neurons are overheating, and I still can't figure out what Mr. Ham is trying to say. I even tried googling "naturism" to try and figure out what that means. I think the definition that I discovered wasn't what Mr. Ham had in mind, but I found some sites that made me not care anymore.

Naturalism.

400 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 2:55:55am

re: #398 romancewritr

it's stated purpose "The Origin Of The Species."

It's "On the Origin of Species" (the concept of species, their genesis, their variety, their evolution, in general, and not "the species", as in "the sum of all of them and how they entered life"). And it's "its", not "it's".

401 Freods  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 5:32:47am

So last weekend I went to the Carnegie Museum of Natural History in the Oakland section of Pittsburgh to see the reworked dinosaur exhibit. Now I am old so when I was in school I was taught that dinosaurs were cold blooded lizards who dragged their tails around and preceded the development of mammals by a few million years. Now, of course, scientists tell us that is wrong and that dinosaurs were warm blooded relatives of birds who held their tails up and that they co existed with mammals. So in fifty or a hundred years what then will scientists say about dinosaurs? Will they say they co existed with primitive humans? Who knows? What used to be so great about science was that it actually sought out the truth in spite of the politics and prejudices of the day. I hope today's scientists are strong enough to resist all the money and noise arguing for politically correct evidence to fit into preconceived agenda driven conclusions.

402 A.W.  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 6:27:39am

Sorry, am I supposed to care what France thinks?

403 scottishbuzzsaw  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 6:46:27am

re: #166 SpaceJesus

someone needs to install a high intensity x-ray machine and disguise it as a metal detector at the entrance to this museum. these people should not be allowed to reproduce.

You are to be congratulated for finding the one group with whom most here disagree, and about whom you may express your 'darkly humorous' fantasies of sterilization without receiving a rapid deletion. To say I am surprised and disappointed would be an understatement.

404 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 6:54:28am
405 azul93gt  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 7:08:53am

There must be plenty of French 'creationists'... no?

406 hellosnackbar  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 7:54:33am

The Noah's ark story is without doubt the silliest in the Bible.
Almost all rain originates from the sea.
The total sea volume can only be altered by melting of that which is locked up in ice.
Is the flood therefore ,due to massive global warming at the time of Noah ?and if so what happened to the extra sea volume after the rain stopped?
Mr Ham should clarify this matter.
(amazing what can happen in just 40days).

407 Freods  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 8:15:52am

re: #404 buzzsawmonkey
Two points. First, I don't think science has a duty to be wrong. Science obviously can be wrong as it progresses toward a truer understanding of its discipline and that is precisely my point. All this certainty is suspect since new info always comes to light over time. Second, I disagree that religion doesn't go thru the same process. The Catholic church, for example, modifies its understanding and adds beliefs (the Immaculate Conception, for example) over time as new info (revelation such as Lourdes, for example) are accepted. For sure, the former process is based on empirical data (we hope) and the latter on faith. Nonetheless both change.

408 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 8:44:01am

re: #406 hellosnackbar

The Noah's ark story is without doubt the silliest in the Bible.
Almost all rain originates from the sea.
The total sea volume can only be altered by melting of that which is locked up in ice.
Is the flood therefore ,due to massive global warming at the time of Noah ?and if so what happened to the extra sea volume after the rain stopped?
Mr Ham should clarify this matter.
(amazing what can happen in just 40days).

Ham's answer would be "God did it".

409 azul93gt  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 8:58:51am

#406 hellosnackbar

It could have been a regional flood.

410 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 9:03:13am

re: #409 azul93gt

Actually, there is evidence that it was a massive, localized flood.

411 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 9:06:07am

re: #410 Sharmuta

Actually, there is evidence that it was a massive, localized flood.

412 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 9:24:45am

Actually- I was looking for a different video I had seen of a computer reenactment of the flooding of the Mediterranean and Blacks seas, but after watching the first few minutes of the BBC program, I though this would serve the same purpose.

Now that I watch this a bit more, it's actually quite fascinating to watch real scientists take the Bible account and set out to see if they can't prove it on a localized scale.

Of course- even real science proving the flood myth on a smaller scale won't do for the creationists, because it still renders the Biblical account as not literal, since Genesis says the "whole world". Of course, for Noah, the flooding of the Black Sea valley (bed) would have been his whole world.

413 GCPSteve  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 11:33:46am

Just so I have this straight....
These people believe that
a) God created the earth and mankind 6,000 years ago.
and
b) Humans used to live for 900 years.

How can anyone take this seriously?

414 Morgoth  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 12:54:49pm

How can anyone take this seriously?

Never underestimate the power of a) human stupidity. b) brainwashing.


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