The Gitmo Myth and the Torture Canard

Opinion • Views: 2,942

An excellent piece at Commentary by Arthur Herman on the history and purpose of the Guantanamo Bay detention facility, and the unceasing distortions and falsehoods promoted by far-left groups: The Gitmo Myth and the Torture Canard.

The standard argument is that the public shift in attitude toward Gitmo was gradual, and reflected a growing disillusionment with the war on terror as the sordid details of how George W. Bush and his assistants chose to wage it came out, including the supposed secret use of torture. Once the detention center had become a cesspool of human-rights abuse, the evil spawned there then seeped into other facilities where prisoners in the Bush war on terror were being held, most notoriously the Iraqi prison at Abu Ghraib. In 2004, former Vice President Al Gore announced that Abu Ghraib “was not the result of random acts by a ‘few bad apples’: it was the natural consequence of the Bush administration policy” of retaining and interrogating inmates at Gitmo.

What this account and others like it fail to take into consideration are the aggressive and unending efforts of a cadre of lawyers, activists, left-leaning Democrats in Congress, and civil libertarians against the facility, its purpose, its goal, and its existence. These efforts began even before it was opened, in November 2001, and continue to this day. The anti-Gitmo forces worked tirelessly to shape the public perception that Gitmo was the red-hot center of an aggressive policy approach that led the leftist financier George Soros to declare: “The biggest terrorist in the world is George W. Bush.”

The enemies of Bush and Gitmo have succeeded brilliantly. But in so doing, they have done grave violence to the truth about the Guant�namo Bay facility, have aided in the release of prisoners who have since committed acts of terrorism outside the United States, and may yet succeed in having Barack Obama’s government release young men with terrifying ambitions for murder and mass destruction onto the soil of the United States.

Read the whole thing…

Jump to bottom

522 comments
1 Sharmuta  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:36:33pm

Gitmo has saved lives.

2 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:37:06pm

re: #1 Sharmuta

Gitmo has saved lives.

Which is why so many people want it closed.

3 harrylook  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:37:10pm

Yeah, but the world will like us if we close it, so we must.

/

4 Kragar  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:37:14pm

Truth doesn't matter to the Left, only the symbol and the message.

5 MPH  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:37:57pm

This is the best article I've read all year.

6 sneezey  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:38:13pm

You mean the far left lies and distorts? And here I was thinking that Israel was the world's worst human rights violator, while the likes of Saudi Arabia, Cuba, Iran, and Chicago were models of civility. Thanks a lot public education system, I feel mislead.

7 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:38:34pm

I couldn't care less what anyone says about Cheney!
He was great yesterday!
A Great American!

8 WhiteRasta  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:38:42pm

re: #4 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The Left want to turn the terrorists lose in America. Is that deranged thinking or what?

9 Occasional Reader  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:39:47pm

Fun little experiment: Ask anyone who is railing against that horrible Auschwitz of our time!, Gitmo, whether he/she has ever expressed any concern about prison conditions anywhere else on the island of Cuba. Await blank stare.

10 Raiderdan  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:39:49pm

Amazing too that the "cadre of lawyers, activists, left-leaning Democrats in Congress, and civil libertarians" were able to accomplish their goals during the dark days of repression and censorship that existed after Sept. 11, when anyone who disagreed with Bush or Cheney was branded "unpatriotic" by FOX News and talk radio and the New York Times and the Washington Post were too cowed to resist....

/sarc

11 Lincolntf  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:40:15pm

"The enemies of Bush and Gitmo have succeeded brilliantly."

The fact that that group includes both Al Qaeda and Barack Obama should not go unremarked upon. Consider that my remark.

12 Fenway_Nation  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:40:26pm

If Mr. Steele is reading this, please have the GOP candidates running in 2010 point out the Dems concern for radical islamists who wanted to pull off a mass casualty attack on US soil was greater than their concern for their own constituents....

I think just that platform alone could be enough to blunt any further damage from the 0bama administration from 2010 on.

13 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:40:27pm

re: #8 WhiteRasta

The Left want to turn the terrorists lose in America. Is that deranged thinking or what?

But it's consistent. They really do want to "bring it all down, man!" but they don't want to get their own hands dirty doing it. They're content to let others (criminals, thugs, terrorists) do the heavy lifting required to overthrow bourgeois Western capitalism, and then think they can seize the reins and make the world work the way they want it to.

14 solomonpanting  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:40:32pm
It is important to remember that the exposure of the abuses at Abu Ghraib came not from a reporter or human-rights advocate or international agency, but from within the Department of Defense itself.

Just another totalitarian government doing its darndest to operate in total secrecy.
//

15 VioletTiger  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:40:50pm

Liberals are all about free. Some of them want goods and services to be free, while others want freedom to be free. They want to be able to look down their noses at those protecting their freedom, knowing full well that those loyal souls will keep right on doing so, even while the libs rant about how evil they are. The libs are free to keep their feelings of moral superiority because they know the defenders will still protect their sorry arses anyway.

16 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:40:52pm

re: #8 WhiteRasta

I've said it before.....
Release them in Central Utah or Wyoming and give out the GPS
coordinates and let the games begin!

17 turn  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:41:00pm

re: #7 reloadingisnotahobby

Yesterday? What about today, he reamed O a new one with that speech.

18 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:41:06pm

re: #9 Occasional Reader

Fun little experiment: Ask anyone who is railing against that horrible Auschwitz of our time!, Gitmo, whether he/she has ever expressed any concern about prison conditions anywhere else on the island of Cuba. Await blank stare.

But, the poverty there is our fault. Embargo!
///

19 WhiteRasta  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:41:45pm

re: #13 Guanxi88

Little do they know, they will be the first to the chop-chop block when that comes about.

20 Raiderdan  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:42:27pm

What P8ssed me off most today in Obama speech was his line that somehow journalists (and Nancy Pelosi) were too cowed by the Bush Administration to speak up against torture.

What a crock of sh8t.

They were ALL FOR IT!

Until the political winds shifted to their advantage.

I really hate Obama now. He's an enabler. He's willing to rewrite history to suit his agenda and the MSM will go along with him.

21 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:42:40pm

re: #17 turn
That was today?
Rush played it...I thought it was yest...

22 Fenway_Nation  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:42:41pm

re: #9 Occasional Reader

Fun little experiment: Ask anyone who is railing against that horrible Auschwitz of our time!, Gitmo, whether he/she has ever expressed any concern about prison conditions anywhere else on the island of Cuba. Await blank stare.

When 0bama issued his first Imperial Decree Executive order to shit down Gitmo, I boldly predicted that 'human rights' groups would no longer be concerned about any prisons on the island of Cuba.

23 Fenway_Nation  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:43:59pm

re: #22 Fenway_Nation

shut...

PIMF

24 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:44:35pm

re: #19 WhiteRasta

Little do they know, they will be the first to the chop-chop block when that comes about.

They always have been, but this time, it'll be different, they tell themselves.

25 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:44:36pm

re: #23 Fenway_Nation

26 Lincolntf  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:44:36pm

re: #23 Fenway_Nation

Shoulda kept it the first way.

27 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:45:00pm

re: #25 reloadingisnotahobby

Oh nevermind!
/

28 Occasional Reader  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:45:03pm

re: #20 Raiderdan

What P8ssed me off most today in Obama speech was his line that somehow journalists (and Nancy Pelosi) were too cowed by the Bush Administration to speak up against torture.

You're kidding me... did he really say that? (I missed the speech and haven't read up on it yet.)

It's of course a lie, and it's an incredibly irresponsible lie, to boot.

29 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:45:24pm

re: #27 reloadingisnotahobby

What Lincoln said......

30 turn  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:45:31pm

re: #21 reloadingisnotahobby

Yeah, you can get the text of both of their speeches at foxnews.com. You just have to read Cheney's speech. He absolutely shames the left on that gitmo is a recruitment tool meme.

31 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:45:59pm

re: #9 Occasional Reader

Fun little experiment: Ask anyone who is railing against that horrible Auschwitz of our time!, Gitmo, whether he/she has ever expressed any concern about prison conditions anywhere else on the island of Cuba. Await blank stare.

Ask them if they've ever read Against All Hope.

32 Sharmuta  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:46:17pm
When President Bush announced in November 2001 the establishment of the detention center and plans for military commissions to try cases, Michael Ratner of the Center for Constitutional Rights was furious. “The idea that you could pick up people anywhere in the world and hold them forever without a trial is outrageous,” he later told the magazine Mother Jones. Ratner immediately began organizing an effort to offer legal counsel to the first detainees, and organized teams of attorneys working pro bono from some of Washington’s largest law firms to bring suit on behalf of the detainees.

Sympathy for the devil. Their consideration will not save them from the hatred the jihadists feel for infidels.

33 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:46:28pm

re: #30 turn

I love that guy!
And yes,I'd hunt or fish with him anytime!

34 joncelli  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:46:40pm

Anti-American left: "Mere trivia. It's not the facts that matter, it's the perception we create!"

/spit.

35 WhiteRasta  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:46:42pm

OT, but an amusing anecdote: A friend of mine's daughter is an air ambulance captain, she just came back from Saudi Arabia and she spent 3 days there.

They had no idea she is JEWISH! She had just flown a Saudi girl back from Cali to the soddomite kingdom.

They would not let her swim in the hotel pool, she had to swim in the women's pool, in the basement.

36 jcm  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:47:00pm

For being the nuance President BHO has trouble with nuance.

The detainees at Gitmo are neither POWs or Criminals. The are something else that requires a different approach. One not taught at Harvard Law School or in Alinsky's Rules.

37 Nevergiveup  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:47:38pm

The biggest failure of the Bush Administration was communicating the message to the American People. Of course since the MSM was in the bag for the opposition and the enemies of America, it was a steep hill to climb.

38 IslandLibertarian  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:47:46pm

"0" called Guantanamo "a mess that I've inherited"........

projection

39 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:48:06pm

re: #32 Sharmuta

Sympathy for the devil. .

As requested:

40 Nevergiveup  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:48:29pm

re: #35 WhiteRasta

OT, but an amusing anecdote: A friend of mine's daughter is an air ambulance captain, she just came back from Saudi Arabia and she spent 3 days there.

They had no idea she is JEWISH! She had just flown a Saudi girl back from Cali to the soddomite kingdom.

They would not let her swim in the hotel pool, she had to swim in the women's pool, in the basement.

I hope she pissed in it. Bad nevergiveup bad.

41 dhg4  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:48:44pm

Jules Crittenden

All fun aside, the interesting question is why Obama is engaging in this exercise. Sounds like, having lost his way in the last four months, defaulting to virtually all of the major components of the Bush GWOT with minor tweaks, and under fire from his lefty peacenik base, Obama isn’t really interested in defining Bush’s place in history. He very much needs to disentangle himself from it.
42 WhiteRasta  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:48:54pm

re: #40 Nevergiveup

I know I would have.

43 Occasional Reader  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:49:07pm

re: #31 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Ask them if they've ever read Against All Hope.

I didn't read it, but I saw the movie (the one with Michael Douglas), and dug the Phil Collins theme song from the same.

/

44 J.D.  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:49:27pm

Michael Ratner is not a good guy... and has ties to the New York Times.
Coincidence?

Michael Ratner's website.

45 jcm  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:49:28pm

re: #20 Raiderdan

What P8ssed me off most today in Obama speech was his line that somehow journalists (and Nancy Pelosi) were too cowed by the Bush Administration to speak up against torture.

What a crock of sh8t.

They were ALL FOR IT!

Until the political winds shifted to their advantage.

I really hate Obama now. He's an enabler. He's willing to rewrite history to suit his agenda and the MSM will go along with him.

Remember all the (D)s that approved the Iraq Use of Force Resolution who where suddenly appalled when GWB actually used force?

46 turn  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:49:33pm

re: #33 reloadingisnotahobby

I love that guy!
And yes,I'd hunt or fish with him anytime!

True patriots, him and Bush. O's doing this for his own gratification, big difference. spit

47 dhg4  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:49:46pm

re: #43 Occasional Reader

I didn't read it, but I saw the movie (the one with Michael Douglas), and dug the Phil Collins theme song from the same.

/

Isn't that Against all Odds?

48 Lincolntf  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:49:57pm

re: #37 Nevergiveup

I'd say it was more of a brick wall than a sttep hill. The media has made an art form of concealing information from the public. Finding the truth in the period from 2001-2008 was impossible for people with access only to the MSM.

49 Killgore Trout  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:50:19pm

I'm seeing more anti-Gitmo stuff from the right these days too. From yesterday's Glen Beck show......
Ron Paul Napolitano Glenn Beck On Guantanamo Bay 5/20/09


Who would have guessed a few months ago that we'd see this crap on Fox?

50 Occasional Reader  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:50:45pm

re: #47 dhg4

Isn't that Against all Odds?

(psst... did ya note the sarc tag?)

51 Nevergiveup  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:50:49pm

23:21 UJC: Thwarted N.Y. attack `sobering reminder to remain vigilant` (Haaretz

UJC ( United Jewish Community)

Then tell Liberal Jews to stop voting Democratic for G-D's sake!

52 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:50:59pm

re: #47 dhg4

Isn't that Against all Odds?

No, Phil Collins was in a lot of music, tv, and movies in the 80's.
///

53 Nevergiveup  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:51:29pm

re: #48 Lincolntf

I'd say it was more of a brick wall than a sttep hill. The media has made an art form of concealing information from the public. Finding the truth in the period from 2001-2008 was impossible for people with access only to the MSM.

OK I like yours better.

54 Dahveed  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:51:30pm

I just sit here and wonder why anyone would possibly care about a bunch of "people" who would just assume kill all of us and be upset that they are confined in a place where they can do us no harm. Who sits around and worries about this?

I am really having an incredible amount of difficulty understanding the leftist mentality about Gitmo.

55 Fenway_Nation  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:52:01pm

re: #45 jcm

Remember all the (D)s that approved the Iraq Use of Force Resolution who where suddenly appalled when GWB actually used force?

Funny how Bush was a drooling inbred retard who couldn't tie his own shoes....yet he was crafty and cunning enough to trick the Dems into approving the Iraq war that he apparently lied to the nuanced diplomats at the UN about...

56 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:52:20pm

re: #54 Dahveed

I just sit here and wonder why anyone would possibly care about a bunch of "people" who would just assume kill all of us and be upset that they are confined in a place where they can do us no harm. Who sits around and worries about this?

I am really having an incredible amount of difficulty understanding the leftist mentality about Gitmo.

They'd rather you die than have their principles be sullied.

57 Nevergiveup  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:52:23pm

re: #54 Dahveed

I just sit here and wonder why anyone would possibly care about a bunch of "people" who would just assume kill all of us and be upset that they are confined in a place where they can do us no harm. Who sits around and worries about this?

I am really having an incredible amount of difficulty understanding the leftist mentality about Gitmo.

But your a Cub's fan?
/

58 turn  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:52:40pm

re: #37 Nevergiveup

The biggest failure of the Bush Administration was communicating the message to the American People. Of course since the MSM was in the bag for the opposition and the enemies of America, it was a steep hill to climb.

Virtually a sheer rock face, impossible. He had more important things to do but did give up. The MSM beat him down so bad, contrast that with what they did for O. I'll have to start clipping a little here and there out of Slobbering Love Affair and posting it on open threads. It's sickening.

59 J.D.  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:52:44pm
Interrogators were still getting nowhere, so on October 11, 2002, the head of the Southern Command, General James Hill, was asked to approve an enhanced interrogation schedule, divided into three categories of coercion beyond those covered in the U.S. Army field manual:

Category I, yelling and deception.

Category II, stress positions for up to four hours, light deprivation, removal of clothing, shaving of facial hair (very shaming to a Muslim male), and exploitation of fear phobias, including fear of dogs.

Category III, “the use of scenarios” to convince the detainee that his life is in danger, including waterboarding.

On November 15, against FBI objections, Hill approved the use of Categories I and II, but not Category III. He also approved a plan for applying them to Qahtani by degrees on a thirty-day schedule beginning on November 23. On December 2, Rumsfeld weighed in with his own authorization, which, again, did not include waterboarding. Rumsfeld had his doubts in any case, and on January 15 rescinded his authorization pending further review.

Still, that proved to be enough time to break Qahtani. He was subjected to 20-hour interrogation sessions, being tied to a dog leash (no actual dogs were involved), having water poured continually on his head (but no waterboarding), while women’s clothes were dropped on his face and a bra strapped across his clothed chest. These and other humiliations, including turning up the air-conditioning to uncomfortable levels, did result in Qahtani’s brief hospitalization in early December with brachyocardia. However, none remotely approached the definition of torture defined by the OLC’s August 2002 memo as administering physical pain equal to the intensity “accompanying serious physical injury, such as organ failure, impairment of bodily function, or even death,” or psychological harm “lasting for months or even years.”

By then, Qahtani had confessed that he worked for al Qaeda. One by one, without hesitation, he picked out pictures of all nineteen of the 9/11 hijackers and called out their names—and admitted that he, not Zacarias Moussaoui, had been slated to be the twentieth hijacker. He also revealed that the true mastermind of the attack was Osama bin Laden’s deputy Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. Qahtani also fingered another Saudi al-Qaeda operative, Adnan el-Shukrijumah, who was in the United States organizing another 9/11-style attack for the summer of 2004. Khalid Mohammed’s subsequent capture in Pakistan in March 2003 revealed still more details which, we now know, enabled the Bush administration to foil a second wave of suicide attacks directed at Los Angeles.


Dat ain't nuttin'.

60 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:52:59pm

re: #56 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

They'd rather you die than have their principles be sullied.

Brevity

61 jcbunga  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:53:02pm

If Gitmo did not exist we would have to create one.

Somebody wise said that.

62 Occasional Reader  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:53:03pm

re: #52 Guanxi88

No, Phil Collins was in a lot of music, tv, and movies in the 80's.
///

Nice follow-through!

63 Gearhead  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:53:17pm

They're using ducks for torture? Oh, the humanity.

64 WhiteRasta  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:53:30pm

re: #54 Dahveed

This is the same idiot-think that makes criminals the victim and the victim the criminal......

65 callahan23  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:53:31pm
... The anti-Gitmo forces worked tirelessly to shape the public perception that Gitmo was the red-hot center of an aggressive policy approach that led the leftist financier George Soros to declare: “The biggest terrorist in the world is George W. Bush.”
...

They've got that distorted meme so far up their sph*ncter that it has become a part of them.
What a sick bunch of masochist they must be.

66 Sharmuta  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:53:39pm
Ratner’s allies in the fight for the detainees included Islamist lobbying groups willing to spread the notion that the Gitmo detainees were victims of racial and religious discrimination; liberal lawyers at prestigious Washington firms who had been taught by their law professors that the law’s role is to effect social and political change and who wished to do something more meaningful than work on corporate mergers; and eventually a Democratic party understandably looking for an issue it could use to undermine public support for George Bush (running in the mid-80s in early 2002) and get them back in the political game.

The bolded section is a classic point of the unconstrained vision I keep talking about. The law isn't meant to effect societal change, but rather to protect man from man.

67 Sharmuta  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:54:07pm

re: #39 Guanxi88

Nice hair.

68 Spare O'Lake  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:54:41pm

re: #65 callahan23

They've got that distorted meme so far up their sph*ncter that it has become a part of them.
What a sick bunch of masochist they must be.

In the time of great heat and fire to come,
Religion and creed shall melt and cleave one to the other,
And all shall be shit.
/

69 Occasional Reader  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:54:49pm

re: #59 J.D.

Category II... shaving of facial hair

Oh my GOD! It turns out I "torture" myself practically every morning! (Well, sometimes I give myself a break on Saturdays.)

70 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:55:52pm

re: #67 Sharmuta

Nice hair.

Millennia from now, when our descendants gather around communal fires to tell the tales of old, the god of music will be named "Miq-Chagger," and Keith Richards will be there to tell what it was like.

You know I'm right.

71 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:56:24pm

re: #68 Spare O'Lake

In the time of great heat and fire to come,
Religion and creed shall melt and cleave one to the other,
And all shall be shit.
/

Nostradamus after about 4 whiskeys.

72 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:56:52pm

re: #69 Occasional Reader

Oh my GOD! It turns out I "torture" myself practically every morning! (Well, sometimes I give myself a break on Saturdays.)

Have you considered using a new razor?

73 jcbunga  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:56:59pm

We can close Gitmo. All we need are for the Jihadists to sue for peace. We can close it the next day.

Somebody wise said that.

74 Occasional Reader  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:57:11pm

re: #63 Gearhead

They're using ducks for torture? Oh, the humanity.

If the Torture Canard doesn't work, they employ the Duck of Death.

75 Fenway_Nation  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:57:16pm

re: #70 Guanxi88

Keith Richards will have smoked all of our ashes.

76 WhiteRasta  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:57:17pm

re: #70 Guanxi88

You know, that Keith Richards is 65 and he does not look a day older than 95......

77 J.D.  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:57:37pm

re: #69 Occasional Reader

Oh my GOD! It turns out I "torture" myself practically every morning! (Well, sometimes I give myself a break on Saturdays.)

You'd better get yourself a good lawyer!

78 Sharmuta  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:57:38pm

re: #54 Dahveed

I just sit here and wonder why anyone would possibly care about a bunch of "people" who would just assume kill all of us and be upset that they are confined in a place where they can do us no harm. Who sits around and worries about this?

I am really having an incredible amount of difficulty understanding the leftist mentality about Gitmo.

It's not just the left, as Killgore has just pointed out. I wish I could fully explain it in easy terms, but all I can do is continue to point out Thomas Sowell's A Conflict of Visions, and hope folks read it.

The type of people who are concerned about those poor terrorists are the type who think that war can be prevented if we're just nice to everybody. They fail to understand it's human nature for men to desire dominating other men.

79 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:57:47pm

re: #74 Occasional Reader

If the Torture Canard doesn't work, they employ the Duck of Death.

English Bob!

80 Pvt Bin Jammin  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:58:09pm

re: #44 J.D.

Michael Ratner is not a good guy... and has ties to the New York Times.
Coincidence?

Michael Ratner's website.

That Lynne Stewart is a "piece of work" too.
[Link: graypantherssf.igc.org...]

Saw this today on a local blog:
[Link: www.lawattstimes.com...]

Such nice neighbor's I have./

81 Occasional Reader  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:58:21pm

re: #72 Guanxi88

Have you considered using a new razor?

I keep trying to find one of those razors from the commercials, the ones that make hot chicks walk up and stroke your face immediately after you've shaved.

82 jcbunga  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:58:49pm

I get water up my nose every time I shower.

Should I be reporting to someone?

83 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:59:18pm

re: #81 Occasional Reader

I keep trying to find one of those razors from the commercials, the ones that make hot chicks walk up and stroke your face immediately after you've shaved.

Hell, I can sell you those by the case! They look just like the ones you get at Dollar General, to keep the envious and resentful from stealing them.

84 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:59:40pm

re: #82 jcbunga

I get water up my nose every time I shower.

Should I be reporting to someone?

Call a plumber.

85 rightwinger3  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:59:52pm

re: #81 Occasional Reader

I keep trying to find one of those razors from the commercials, the ones that make hot chicks walk up and stroke your face immediately after you've shaved.

I have one. It's very cool.

86 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:59:52pm

re: #70 Guanxi88

Richards fell out of a tree a year or so ago, and wasn't more than shaken up.

I take this as proof of what you said!

87 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, May 21, 2009 1:59:53pm

Here's torture!
Memorial Day weekend!
Boats ready to go...
And thunderstorms all FRIGIN weekend!
That is torture!

88 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:00:09pm

re: #83 Guanxi88

Hell, I can sell you those by the case! They look just like the ones you get at Dollar General, to keep the envious and resentful from stealing them.

The razors, I mean; the DG chicks ain't so fine.

89 Spare O'Lake  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:00:39pm

re: #82 jcbunga

I get water up my nose every time I shower.

Should I be reporting to someone?

Try standing.

90 callahan23  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:00:53pm

re: #82 jcbunga

I get water up my nose every time I shower.

Should I be reporting to someone?

Better go to the ENT doctor.
;-)

91 Occasional Reader  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:01:45pm

re: #90 callahan23

Better go to the ENT doctor.
;-)

And if that doesn't work, the Tree Surgeon.

92 J.D.  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:02:17pm

re: #80 Pvt Bin Jammin

That Lynne Stewart is a "piece of work" too.
[Link: graypantherssf.igc.org...]

Saw this today on a local blog:
[Link: www.lawattstimes.com...]

Such nice neighbor's I have./

Michael Ratner and Noam Chomsky on the Advisory Committee, too.
Nice.

93 Randall Gross  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:02:53pm

The events of the past few weeks have amply demonstrated that Pelosi and Obama are flaming hypocrites at the very least, let us hope that the public is noticing. Just in case they aren't we need to catalogue and collect the articles on this for future reference. It will come in handy in '10 and '12.

This isn't something they can blow off like the kookspiracies, this is solid concrete that we need to make sure they don't bust out of with distractions.

94 Digital Display  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:02:56pm

re: #86 Dianna

Richards fell out of a tree a year or so ago, and wasn't more than shaken up.

I take this as proof of what you said!

Plus the story came up a few years ago that Keith said he snorted some of his Dad's ashes...Sick dude

95 joncelli  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:03:00pm

Direct from the transcript of VP Cheney's speech at AEI:

Even before the interrogation program began, and throughout its operation, it was closely reviewed to ensure that every method used was in full compliance with the Constitution, statutes, and treaty obligations. On numerous occasions, leading members of Congress, including the current speaker of the House, were briefed on the program and on the methods.

Dick's not pulling any punches. I STRONGLY recommend that all lizards go directly to AEI's site and read the speech in full: [Link: www.aei.org...]

96 Killgore Trout  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:03:09pm

OT: More ugliness from a BNP activist....
BNP mum Helen Forster led kids' race attack

Meet the female face of the BNP - the sneering single mum who led a mob of kids to throw eggs and fire an airgun at an Asian neighbour.

Graphic designer Helen Forster, a paid-up member who produces leaflets for the far right group, was yesterday spared jail after being convicted of intimidation.

She was the lone adult urging the hate-filled kids - some only 10 - to shout abuse during the siege at the home of terrified Meherjan Miah, who had previously lodged a complaint to police about a racially-aggravated assault.

97 J.D.  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:03:38pm

re: #94 HoosierHoops

Plus the story came up a few years ago that Keith said he snorted some of his Dad's ashes...Sick dude

Nooooooooooooooooo!

98 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:03:43pm

re: #94 HoosierHoops

Plus the story came up a few years ago that Keith said he snorted some of his Dad's ashes...Sick dude

I hadn't heard that.

Ew!

99 solomonpanting  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:03:47pm

In his speech today, Obama had this to say about waterboarding and other enhanced interrogation techniques:

I catagorically reject the notion that these are the most effective means of interrogation.

He doesn't deny that they work. I wonder what other means he might use under pressure circumstances?

100 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:03:50pm

Is this idiot aware that the Gitmo prisoners have it better than his 1/2 brother in Kenya?

101 justabill  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:04:24pm

I have been thinking about this. Perhaps we need to give each Git-mo detainee a large garden and 72 virgins. After all, this is what they expected to receive after they were martyred. Unfortunately for them, they were taken alive and denied this. Giving them anything less would only serve to remind them that they failed in their attempt at martyrdom and thus would be mental torture...

102 Lincolntf  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:04:35pm

re: #93 Thanos

Give 'em a day or two, they'll turn into a "kookspiracy". It's what they do.

103 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:04:37pm

re: #96 Killgore Trout

Tell me she's under arrest!

104 WhiteRasta  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:05:00pm

re: #96 Killgore Trout

Those people are as disgusting as a certian tribe that squats on Jewish land.

I'm glad Charles will have no dealings with people of that ilk.

105 JacksonTn  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:05:08pm

STOP PICKING ON KEITH! ... you going down! ...

106 lurking faith  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:05:18pm

re: #45 jcm

Remember all the (D)s that approved the Iraq Use of Force Resolution who where suddenly appalled when GWB actually used force?

They (most Dems, and way too many Repubs) actually seem to think that all problems can be solved just by talking.

Idiots.

107 J.D.  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:05:29pm

re: #100 reloadingisnotahobby

Is this idiot aware that the Gitmo prisoners have it better than his 1/2 brother in Kenya?

He's convinced me that he doesn't have a clue.

108 Pvt Bin Jammin  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:05:47pm

re: #92 J.D.

Michael Ratner and Noam Chomsky on the Advisory Committee, too.
Nice.

I noticed that too. It's an "all-star cast" of lefties.

109 MAV  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:06:12pm

re: #20 Raiderdan

I was watching this POS this morning any I was cussing like a sailor. This man hasn't got a F'ing clue and it scares me to death. I would have loved it if this were a debate between him and Cheney. NObama is a skinny lying lawyer and he is doing grave damage to our country and needs to be stopped.

110 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:06:33pm
re: #54 Dahveed

I just sit here and wonder why anyone would possibly care about a bunch of "people" who would just assume kill all of us and be upset that they are confined in a place where they can do us no harm. Who sits around and worries about this?

I am really having an incredible amount of difficulty understanding the leftist mentality about Gitmo.

re: #56 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

They'd rather you die than have their principles be sullied.

I think not. This has nothing to do with principles. It is principles that the dems seriously lack. Gitmo closing is all political and only political.

111 Occasional Reader  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:06:34pm

re: #36 jcm

For being the nuance President BHO has trouble with nuance.

The detainees at Gitmo are neither POWs or Criminals. The are something else that requires a different approach. One not taught at Harvard Law School or in Alinsky's Rules.

I did manage to torture! myself with a little NPR earlier today. The message: Obama is wise and thoughtful about the Gitmo issue, Cheney is a monster, the American people are too dumb to understand Obama's wise thoughtfulness. No surprises, that is to say.

112 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:06:53pm

If we're talking about Keith Richards, we've got to have this: As Wicked as it Seems

113 Lincolntf  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:07:16pm

re: #102 Lincolntf

Give 'em a day or two, they'll turn it into a "kookspiracy". It's what they do.

PIMF, I had a Biden moment.

114 Occasional Reader  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:07:38pm

re: #96 Killgore Trout

to shout abuse during the siege at the home of terrified Meherjan Miah

Small silver lining; sounds like we have one more British voter who would support something resembling our Second Amendment.

115 callahan23  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:07:44pm

re: #94 HoosierHoops

re: #86 Dianna

Richards fell out of a tree a year or so ago, and wasn't more than shaken up.

I take this as proof of what you said!


Plus the story came up a few years ago that Keith said he snorted some of his Dad's ashes...Sick dude

Both stories are correct.
As far as wiki's correct.

116 Killgore Trout  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:08:01pm

re: #103 Dianna

She got off with 10 months suspended sentence. I think she's living off public benefits too.

117 [deleted]  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:08:15pm
118 Lincolntf  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:08:58pm

re: #117 buzzsawmonkey

Results are forbidden. You should know that.

119 Sharmuta  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:09:01pm

Another point on the unconstrained vision and how it views justice (keeping these terrorists in mind) is that they really do think that Evil is the victim of Good.

They fail to understand "that mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent."

120 Spare O'Lake  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:09:22pm

re: #96 Killgore Trout

OT: More ugliness from a BNP activist....
BNP mum Helen Forster led kids' race attack

Ovas the use.

121 MandyManners  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:09:56pm

re: #111 Occasional Reader

I did manage to torture! myself with a little NPR earlier today. The message: Obama is wise and thoughtful about the Gitmo issue, Cheney is a monster, the American people are too dumb to understand Obama's wise thoughtfulness. No surprises, that is to say.


122 Occasional Reader  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:10:08pm

Guantanamero
Shadid-a
Guantanamero
Guantanamerrro
Shahid-a
Guantanamerooo...

123 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:10:20pm

re: #61 jcbunga

If Gitmo did not exist we would have to create one. Øbama would create it and the left would be fine with it.

124 Digital Display  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:10:31pm

re: #115 callahan23

Both stories are correct.
As far as wiki's correct.

In an April 2007 interview for NME magazine, music journalist Mark Beaumont asked Richards what the strangest thing he ever snorted was,[86] and quoted him as replying: "My father. I snorted my father. He was cremated and I couldn't resist grinding him up with a little bit of blow. My dad wouldn't have cared ... It went down pretty well, and I'm still alive."
There ya go...crazy sick shit...

125 jcm  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:10:34pm

re: #107 J.D.

He's convinced me that he doesn't have a clue.

He has a Clue, but the game is Risk.

126 Dave the.....  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:11:12pm

Cheney's speach today, it's been said "why couldn't the Bush administration make speaches like that while they were in office?"

OR

I did manage to torture! myself with a little NPR earlier today. The message: Obama is wise and thoughtful about the Gitmo issue, Cheney is a monster, the American people are too dumb to understand Obama's wise thoughtfulness. No surprises, that is to say.

Funny thing is, Bush and Obama have basically the same policies. That "domestic spying" is still going on. So is Gitmo.

127 anotherindyfilmguy  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:11:12pm

re: #63 Gearhead

They're using ducks for torture? Oh, the humanity.

Hopefully the attending physician isn't a quack...

128 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:11:52pm

re: #116 Killgore Trout

She got off with 10 months suspended sentence. I think she's living off public benefits too.

And I'm sure she complains about everyone else (who isn't a lower-class white female, anyway) who is. Charming.

129 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:12:46pm

re: #103 Dianna

Hey, Dianna, good to see you! Feeling better today, I hope?

I went and ordered the current Vintage edition of Dhalgren so I can reread it from a distance of some three and a half decades and see what I make of it. It just got here. Will let you know.

Apparently the text has been super-plagued by errata, because Delaney originally had something like six days to look over the proofs. The present edition is supposed to fix lots, but not all of the problems.

It's not available for Kindle yet, but I'm going to buy it in the e-version too when it comes out, because I'm curious to know how Kindle handles typographical oddities like double columns and such. Charles, have you seen anything that would give a clue to that? I mean where the typographical layout
is
part
of
the effect.
Like, what would they do with Finnegans Wake or Tristram Shandy, for instance?

130 jcm  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:12:54pm

re: #127 anotherindyfilmguy

Hopefully the attending physician isn't a quack...

What till they get the bill.

131 Killgore Trout  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:12:59pm
132 Syrah  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:13:01pm

re: #78 Sharmuta

It's not just the left, as Killgore has just pointed out. I wish I could fully explain it in easy terms, but all I can do is continue to point out Thomas Sowell's A Conflict of Visions, and hope folks read it.

The type of people who are concerned about those poor terrorists are the type who think that war can be prevented if we're just nice to everybody. They fail to understand it's human nature for men to desire dominating other men.

They live in an unreality where they believe that they can reshape human nature into something that it is not.

133 joncelli  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:13:02pm

Another fabulous Cheney quote:

It's one thing to adopt the euphemisms that suggest we're no longer engaged in a war. These are just words, and in the end it's the policies that matter most. You don't want to call them enemy combatants? Fine. Call them what you want--just don't bring them into the United States. Tired of calling it a war? Use any term you prefer. Just remember it is a serious step to begin unraveling some of the very policies that have kept our people safe since 9/11.
134 The Sanity Inspector  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:13:02pm

...and may yet succeed in having Barack Obama’s government release young men with terrifying ambitions for murder and mass destruction onto the soil of the United States.

Oh, so what! According to leftists, America deserved 9/11, and America's sins ever since have only grown greater in their eyes. So, we will deserve the acts of terrorism committed by the Gitmo inmates that much more.

/hair shirt liberal

135 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:13:02pm

re: #121 MandyManners

[Video]

Yes, it would be better for us to spend yet more time heeding the words of Teh One, our sole regret that cursed, slothful slumber would impede our education, and yet, pleased to know that he would be the subject of our dreams of the paradisaical world he can build for us. And so, cheered by the constant presence of the Leader in our hearts and minds, we can find the strength to move confidently in the direction of his beneficent and compassionate aspirations.

Personality-cult.

136 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:13:14pm

re: #124 HoosierHoops

I so didn't want to know that!

137 Randall Gross  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:13:25pm

re: #102 Lincolntf

Give 'em a day or two, they'll turn into a "kookspiracy". It's what they do.

No, they can't do that with this one - no teflon can deflect this one.

What we need to watch for is the kookspiracies they chum the waters with so people don't pay attention to this. Dems are famous for this sort of thing, even Hillary had a few nutball things that trace back to nutball sites that were on her side at the time. They always appeared so she could wear the victim crown while something more pertinent and damning was being ignored because of them.

It's a game that the Dems play - they know that the press wants to appear objective, so they throw out a lot of chum they know is insubstantial. When the right goes for the chum, the press then runs with the non substantive issue instead of the substantive because the right has created controversy over the rancid fish guts. Then the press can say "see, we are being fair and objective, the attack just didn't happen to pan out... meanwhile the substantive issue isn't "topical" anymore.

138 Spare O'Lake  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:13:32pm

re: #124 HoosierHoops

In an April 2007 interview for NME magazine, music journalist Mark Beaumont asked Richards what the strangest thing he ever snorted was,[86] and quoted him as replying: "My father. I snorted my father. He was cremated and I couldn't resist grinding him up with a little bit of blow. My dad wouldn't have cared ... It went down pretty well, and I'm still alive."
There ya go...crazy sick shit...

Blow the man down, boys
Oh blow the man down,
Blow, blow, blow the man down...

139 jorline  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:14:16pm

re: #133 joncelli

Another fabulous Cheney quote:

lmao...nice avatar

140 [deleted]  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:14:46pm
141 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:14:51pm

re: #129 Cato the Elder

Definitely feeling better - and I wait to see what you make of Dalhgren now.

I spent a lot of yesterday evening trying to remember anything about it, except that I read it, and (once again) completely failed.

142 Occasional Reader  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:15:02pm

re: #133 joncelli

You don't want to call them enemy combatants? Fine. Call them what you want--just don't bring them into the United States.

I actually think that's something of the wrong tack. I'd rather that a determined jihadist be locked up in a Federal Supermax here in the US, than walking around a free man in France.

143 Lincolntf  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:15:11pm

re: #126 Dave the.....

The hatred of Bush and Cheney by the Left would have existed without Bush or Cheney. It's the hatred that matters to them.
How else to get people to act against their own prosperity and security than by infecting them with irrational impulses? Hate induces irrationality and it's the raison d'etre of the current Democratic Party as well as the MSM.

144 anotherindyfilmguy  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:16:03pm

re: #1 Sharmuta

Gitmo has saved lives.

And this advances the O's agenda how?
/

145 J.S.  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:16:19pm

The lunatic bleeding hearts of Canada are demanding that that poor widdle boy, Omar Khadr, be immediately shipped back to Canada. (the CBC constantly shows Omar Khadr as "the child" -- the child -- he's now over 20 years old, complete with beard -- but, in the MSM's mind, he's "a child". They all want him released into Canadian society. Even a judge in Canada has ordered the Harper government to petition Americans for Omar (the dear boy)'s release and return to Canada. That's how active the judges are here -- they weigh-in on political affairs and make demands. The Harper government is appealing the judge's order.) link here.

146 [deleted]  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:16:40pm
147 Digital Display  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:16:46pm

re: #136 Dianna

I so didn't want to know that!

Sorry my friend..And people wonder why I don't like the Stones..
They jumped off the cliff years ago

148 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:18:01pm

re: #147 HoosierHoops

Sorry my friend..And people wonder why I don't like the Stones..
They jumped off the cliff years ago

Oh, I like the Stones well enough. At least, I like a number of their albums (nothing since Steel Wheels, and I didn't like that very much). The people in the band, less so.

149 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:18:26pm

re: #147 HoosierHoops

Sorry my friend..And people wonder why I don't like the Stones..
They jumped off the cliff years ago

Always liked them, though. Tease Beatles fans relentlessly: "Beatles take causalties; the Stones have a body count."

150 MAV  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:18:28pm

re: #101 justabill

Hey don't forget the 26 hairless boys that the Koran also promises.
Spits

" Moslems are allowed, by the koran, to lie to unbelievers - or all non-moslems.To moslems a non-moslem's life is worth nothing, according to the koran and many sheiks,leaders and teachers.
Moslems, male and female, are encouraged to commit suicide re suicide bombers. Not only encouraged but are rewarded with 40 or 70 perpetual virgins and 32 'pearls ( perpetual un-touched hairless boys) in paradise. Do not know what moslem women get, some say that they get to watch the men with their virgin women and un-touched boys."

151 jorline  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:18:52pm

re: #124 HoosierHoops

In an April 2007 interview for NME magazine, music journalist Mark Beaumont asked Richards what the strangest thing he ever snorted was,[86] and quoted him as replying: "My father. I snorted my father. He was cremated and I couldn't resist grinding him up with a little bit of blow. My dad wouldn't have cared ... It went down pretty well, and I'm still alive."
There ya go...crazy sick shit...

Might say that playing for the "Stones" suited him well.

I liked some of their tunes, but was never a "fan"...the Beatles and Hollies kicked butt!

152 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:19:15pm

re: #149 Guanxi88

Always liked them, though. Tease Beatles fans relentlessly: "Beatles take causalties casualties; the Stones have a body count."

153 lurking faith  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:19:43pm

re: #143 Lincolntf

The hatred of Bush and Cheney by the Left would have existed without Bush or Cheney. It's the hatred that matters to them.
How else to get people to act against their own prosperity and security than by infecting them with irrational impulses? Hate induces irrationality and it's the raison d'etre of the current Democratic Party as well as the MSM.

"Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to anger. No wait, hold on... First you get the women, then you get the money, then you... "
-Xander Harris

154 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:21:00pm

re: #150 MAV

26 hairless... I don't recall this at all.

155 Sharmuta  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:21:00pm

Perhaps some of you recall the Ramsey Clarke quote I posted a few weeks ago how the root sources of crime were things like poverty, and lack of beauty. That is why those of the unconstrained vision think of the terrorists as victims- they are sympathetic figures because their dire circumstances lead them to crime (or in this case, terrorism). This is why they want to effect societal change- so these supposed "root causes" no longer cause crime because they no longer exist.

The constrained vision realizes that crime is a natural part of human nature, and the best way to combat it is through laws and upholding them. The whole "crime doesn't pay" mind set. Most of us don't commit crimes because the trade-off isn't worth it. We don't want to be punished. No need for societal change because the choices are obvious.

The "root causes" will always be with us, as will human nature. The best way to deal with them is to live by the rule of law and uphold it. In the case of Guantanamo, upholding our rule of law by detaining terrorists has protected society- not just American society, but the societies of others as well.

156 dhg4  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:21:08pm

re: #50 Occasional Reader

(psst... did ya note the sarc tag?)

If you had written /sarc instead of / I would have gotten it. Ya gotta spell some things our for certain folks (like me.)

157 Sharmuta  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:21:26pm

re: #122 Occasional Reader

Guantanamero
Shadid-a
Guantanamero
Guantanamerrro
Shahid-a
Guantanamerooo...

You bastard! Now I'll have that song stuck in my head.

158 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:21:47pm

re: #153 lurking faith

I upding for Buffy!

159 Randall Gross  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:22:38pm

re: #158 Dianna

I upding for Buffy!

Same. Xander quotes always get a plus.

160 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:23:08pm

re: #159 Thanos

Oh, good. I was worried that I'd done something I'd regret.

161 wiffersnapper  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:23:17pm

Thanks democrats!

162 code red 21  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:23:59pm

I can't read the whole thing because I get so pissed off I want to hit somebody and then eat a gallon of ice cream.

163 lurking faith  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:24:22pm

re: #158 Dianna

I upding for Buffy!

I suspect it's fairly obvious I'm a fan...

164 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:24:37pm

re: #162 code red 21

I can't read the whole thing because I get so pissed off I want to hit somebody and then eat a gallon of ice cream.

Mug the Good Humor guy; it'll be a two-fer.

165 Sharmuta  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:25:08pm

re: #132 Syrah

They live in an unreality where they believe that they can reshape human nature into something that it is not.

Instead of allowing for human nature to naturally evolve into better treatment of each other, they seek to impose unnatural means to achieve their desired results- even through force. Egalitarian ends even by unegalitarian means.

166 Spare O'Lake  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:25:09pm

re: #157 Sharmuta

You bastard! Now I'll have that song stuck in my head.

Sittin' at Guantano Bay,
I'll be sitting when Obam goes away,
Watchin' the Dems come in,
And watch as they go out again,
Sittin' at Guantanamo Bay,
Biden time...

167 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:25:35pm

re: #164 Guanxi88

I know I shouldn't have laughed at that, but I did. So I updinged it so everyone will know that you're not alone in finding that funny.

168 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:25:38pm

re: #162 code red 21

I can't read the whole thing because I get so pissed off I want to hit somebody and then eat a gallon of ice cream.

Ahh, but have you yet reached the "nun-punching" stage? 'Cause that's seriously pissed.

169 MAV  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:26:45pm

re: #155 Sharmuta

Nor had I until I heard a priest at a conference this year. The quote I included states 30 Pearls, untouched hairless boys. Some sick perversion of heaven, Islam would describe in heaven in terms of lust...

170 lurking faith  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:26:53pm

re: #164 Guanxi88

Mug the Good Humor guy; it'll be a two-fer.

If you grab the guy in the truck with the really, really annoying music and blaring horns, feel free to wreck the sound system, too.

171 J.D.  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:27:33pm

re: #166 Spare O'Lake

Sittin' at Guantano Bay,
I'll be sitting when Obam goes away,
Watchin' the Dems come in,
And watch as they go out again,
Sittin' at Guantanamo Bay,
Biden time...

heh

172 MandyManners  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:27:55pm

re: #162 code red 21

I can't read the whole thing because I get so pissed off I want to hit somebody and then eat a gallon of ice cream.

Eat the ice cream any way.

173 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:28:16pm

re: #170 lurking faith

If you grab the guy in the truck with the really, really annoying music and blaring horns, feel free to wreck the sound system, too.

Hell, might as well take the hubcaps while you're at it.

174 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:28:46pm
The enemies of Bush and Gitmo have succeeded brilliantly. But in so doing, they have .........

Treason?

175 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:29:03pm

re: #173 Guanxi88

Hell, might as well take the hubcaps while you're at it.

I've never seen an ice cream truck with hubcaps.

176 Syrah  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:29:13pm

re: #165 Sharmuta

Instead of allowing for human nature to naturally evolve into better treatment of each other, they seek to impose unnatural means to achieve their desired results- even through force. Egalitarian ends even by unegalitarian means.

There is an irony to them.

They are so opposed to violence and force, . . . unless they think that using it would allow them to achieve paradise. Heaven help anyone in their way.

177 lurking faith  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:29:31pm

re: #173 Guanxi88

Hell, might as well take the hubcaps while you're at it.

No, because that would be wrong.
:O

178 MandyManners  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:29:32pm

re: #165 Sharmuta

Instead of allowing for human nature to naturally evolve into better treatment of each other, they seek to impose unnatural means to achieve their desired results- even through force. Egalitarian ends even by unegalitarian means.

Marx's knowledge of human nature left a lot to be desired.

179 turn  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:29:37pm

That was a very well written article. Later folks, time to go walk the lab along the American.

180 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:30:23pm

re: #175 Dianna

I've never seen an ice cream truck with hubcaps.

You must live in a rough neighborhood.

181 Sharmuta  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:30:28pm

re: #178 MandyManners

Marx's knowledge of human nature left a lot to be desired.

It aint just Marx, Hon.

182 lurking faith  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:30:58pm

The making-dinner bell tolls for me.
bye, all

183 Killgore Trout  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:30:59pm

re: #158 Dianna

I read the Heritage Foundation stuff you posted on the previous thread. Pretty interesting. I'd never looked into them before. Nothing obvously nefarious though some of the language about preserving American heritage and culture always makes me a little wary. There's some religious stuff which explains their support of the Disco Institute.
One of their main contributors is some billionaire dude who runs a chain of dollar stores. Who'd thunk there's so much money in those places.

184 Idle Drifter  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:31:03pm

I'm surprised drcordell hasn't shown up yet.

185 Occasional Reader  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:31:07pm

re: #178 MandyManners

Marx's knowledge of human nature left a lot to be desired.

"Che, one morning I shot a llama in my pajamas! How he got into my pajamas, I'll never know."

-Gaucho Marx

186 MandyManners  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:31:40pm

re: #184 Idle Drifter

I'm surprised drcordell hasn't shown up yet.

He'd get his clock cleaned.

187 Occasional Reader  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:31:44pm

re: #180 Guanxi88

You must live in a rough neighborhood.

In Dianna's neighborhood, even Mr. Frostee does drive-bys.

188 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:31:46pm

re: #169 MAV

Nor had I until I heard a priest at a conference this year. The quote I included states 30 Pearls, untouched hairless boys. Some sick perversion of heaven, Islam would describe in heaven in terms of lust...

I'm fairly certain you meant to respond to comment #154, not 155.
Can you provide another source for this?

189 alegrias  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:31:49pm

Thank you for this thread, Charles.

Everyone knows during the rocking Clinton Years, we didn't have GITMO & torture to kick around, yet Al Qaeda attacked our World Trade Center and blasted our African embassies and the USS Cole, killing Americans and Africans for some unknown reasons.

We were so loved then, and Al Qaeda still didn't love us.

Thank you for talking about this conundrum.

190 MandyManners  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:32:11pm

re: #185 Occasional Reader

"Che, one morning I shot a llama in my pajamas! How he got into my pajamas, I'll never know."

-Gaucho Marx

You made me smile.

191 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:32:33pm

re: #184 Idle Drifter

I'm surprised drcordell hasn't shown up yet.

...still reading the LGF dictionary?

192 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:32:39pm

re: #185 Occasional Reader

"Che, one morning I shot a llama in my pajamas! How he got into my pajamas, I'll never know."

-Gaucho Marx

The Fenniman is back.

/spelling?

193 Idle Drifter  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:33:18pm

re: #186 MandyManners

He'd get his clock cleaned.

True it'll wait until this becomes a dead thread before making a move.

194 callahan23  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:33:43pm

re: #184 Idle Drifter

I'm surprised drcordell hasn't shown up yet.

Not yet logged in.

195 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:33:47pm

re: #193 Idle Drifter

True it'll wait until this becomes a dead thread before making a move.

He tried that yesterday.

196 MJ  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:33:54pm

From today's State Department briefing:

QUESTION: I have a question. Have you seen Prime Minister Netanyahu’s latest comments about Jerusalem and how it will be united – undivided capital of Israel, it will never be split or bifurcated?


MR. KELLY: I have not seen those. I have not seen those comments.


QUESTION: Well, perhaps your Near Eastern Affairs Bureau could apprise themselves of these comments and then tell us what – tell us what they think about them because this would appear to prejudge final status.


MR. KELLY: Well, you know, I know– yeah. I know and you know, Matt, that we have very specific language on that, so we’ll get you the specific language on that.


[Link: www.state.gov...]

Hey Matt.
Hey Mr. Kelly.

Screw you both.
Jerusalem will never be divided again.

197 [deleted]  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:34:47pm
198 JacksonTn  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:35:00pm

re: #193 Idle Drifter

True it'll wait until this becomes a dead thread before making a move.

ID ... ha ... that is so true ... I often leave Spy running on a different computer next to me while I am working ... it is crazy to see what people do in the dead threads ... very telling at times ...

199 Gearhead  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:35:01pm

re: #184 Idle Drifter

I'm surprised drcordell hasn't shown up yet.

Dale Carnegie class this afternoon, perhaps?

200 MandyManners  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:35:46pm

re: #197 buzzsawmonkey

What the hell is the fun in talking to an echo chamber? It's the give and take that makes this place fun.

Not if you wanna' lay turds.

201 MandyManners  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:35:55pm

*shaking head*

202 Idle Drifter  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:36:07pm

re: #191 unrealizedviewpoint

...still reading the LGF dictionary?

I'm still reading the article. Not surprised that the biggest opponents to Gitmo are some of the most anti-American people you could find within the country. I don't think I could classify Michael Ratner as a traitor.

203 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:36:21pm

re: #197 buzzsawmonkey

What the hell is the fun in talking to an echo EGO chamber? It's the give and take that makes this place fun.


You said it, but you mispelled it. FTFY

/that's what it is for these idiots

204 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:36:31pm

re: #180 Guanxi88

You must live in a rough neighborhood.

Not any more.

205 Idle Drifter  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:36:45pm

re: #195 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I saw the aftermath of your ambush, good job.

206 debutaunt  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:36:49pm

re: #197 buzzsawmonkey

What the hell is the fun in talking to an echo chamber? It's the give and take that makes this place fun.

That and the free cake.

207 [deleted]  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:37:34pm
208 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:37:51pm

re: #183 Killgore Trout

Thanks for reading the links.

209 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:38:12pm

What's the news on Goddess...

210 [deleted]  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:38:12pm
211 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:39:15pm

re: #205 Idle Drifter

I saw the aftermath of your ambush, good job.

Thank you.

I was lucky. I was JUST composing a "out for the evening" post, had it in the comment window, when I ALT/TAB'ed back over, one last time, to the Gitmo thread and there he was!

212 solomonpanting  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:39:40pm
At the end of Ramadan in 2002, the staff actually considered sacrificing a goat for the detainees, but decided not to for fear of earning the wrath of animal-rights groups.

Now we see who the US military really fears--PETA.

213 code red 21  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:39:42pm

re: #164 Guanxi88

Many updings for that LOL

214 Spare O'Lake  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:40:01pm

re: #197 buzzsawmonkey

What the hell is the fun in talking to an echo chamber? It's the give and take that makes this place fun.

Pali: You give, I take.

215 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:40:05pm

re: #209 unrealizedviewpoint

What's the news on Goddess...

WHAT's this about Goddess?!?!?!?!

216 MandyManners  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:40:24pm

re: #207 buzzsawmonkey

"Turdlayer" was never a job description I found appealing.

Better than a "tapper".

217 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:41:08pm

re: #215 pre-Boomer Marine brat

WHAT's this about Goddess?!?!?!?!

That's what I'm trying to find out.

218 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:41:13pm

re: #212 solomonpanting

Now we see who the US military really fears--PETA.

That's really good!

219 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:41:35pm

G'night, Lizards.

220 debutaunt  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:41:54pm

re: #210 buzzsawmonkey

Is it yellowcake? From Wilson's bakery? I am so there.

Nice Joe Wilson reference!

Reminded me of Wilson's Bakery in Santa Clara - it was the best.

221 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:42:07pm

re: #217 unrealizedviewpoint

That's what I'm trying to find out.

I haven't heard a solitary thing.
Didn't know there was anything to get "news" about.

*eyes wide open*

222 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:42:09pm

Goddess of the Classroom has decamped from among us, abandoned our company, and taken up with lgf2.

223 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:42:34pm

re: #222 Dianna

Goddess of the Classroom has decamped from among us, abandoned our company, and taken up with lgf2.

confirmed?

224 debutaunt  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:42:35pm

re: #215 pre-Boomer Marine brat

WHAT's this about Goddess?!?!?!?!

She has been missing...

225 Idle Drifter  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:42:42pm

re: #206 debutaunt

That and the free cake.

The cake is a lie.

226 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:42:43pm

re: #222 Dianna

Goddess of the Classroom has decamped from among us, abandoned our company, and taken up with lgf2.

OMG!

227 debutaunt  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:43:36pm

re: #226 pre-Boomer Marine brat

OMG!

I'm stunned.

228 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:43:44pm

re: #223 unrealizedviewpoint

confirmed?

I went seeking her yesterday afternoon, and found her there.

Further than this, deponent sayeth not.

229 Idle Drifter  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:43:57pm

re: #222 Dianna

Goddess of the Classroom has decamped from among us, abandoned our company, and taken up with lgf2.

Your kidding?

230 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:44:03pm

List and all?
/

231 code red 21  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:44:38pm

re: #228 Dianna

Do you know Why?

232 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:44:45pm

re: #229 Idle Drifter

Your kidding?

No.

re: #230 unrealizedviewpoint

List and all?
/

She's creating a new one.

233 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:44:49pm

re: #227 debutaunt

I'm stunned.

Thee and me.

234 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:45:10pm

re: #228 Dianna

I went seeking her yesterday afternoon, and found her there.

Further than this, deponent sayeth not.

I'm quite confused by this development. The world really is going nuts.

235 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:45:16pm

re: #233 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Thee and me.

Martin Buber's first working title.

236 solomonpanting  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:45:17pm

re: #218 Dianna

That's really good!

Yeah, reality provides good insights!
:P

237 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:45:25pm

re: #231 code red 21

No. I read that she'd left, and to where. I didn't believe it, so I checked it.

I'm sad to see her go.

238 Digital Display  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:45:40pm

re: #226 pre-Boomer Marine brat

OMG!

It's seems to be true....Sad..but true

239 code red 21  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:46:10pm

As are all of us I enjoyed her posts. Too bad.

240 albusteve  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:46:17pm

re: #220 debutaunt

Nice Joe Wilson reference!

Reminded me of Wilson's Bakery in Santa Clara - it was the best.

glowing reviews?

241 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:46:37pm

re: #232 Dianna

She's creating a new one.

What do you mean she's creating a new one?
What will she do with the old prayer list, offer it to Satan? Ridiculous!

242 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:47:07pm

I wonder if the creationism issue had some sort of negative aspect in her point of view. Perhaps the tone of it?

I'm stunned.

243 Digital Display  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:47:47pm

re: #242 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I wonder if the creationism issue had some sort of negative aspect in her point of view. Perhaps the tone of it?

I'm stunned.

We'll talk off-line Brat

244 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:48:23pm

I'm surprised by the lgf2 part of it.

245 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:48:54pm

re: #243 HoosierHoops

We'll talk off-line Brat

Indeed.
Blued nic.

246 MJ  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:48:56pm

Yes, folks, the rumors are really true:

New Michael Moore Documentary Coming In October

"...In a statement, the studios said that the documentary would “take a comical look at the corporate and political shenanigans” that resulted in the worldwide recession...."

[Link: artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com...]

The NYT is already gearing up it's promo department.

247 debutaunt  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:48:57pm

re: #244 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I'm surprised by the lgf2 part of it.

It just doesn't make sense.

248 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:48:58pm

re: #241 unrealizedviewpoint

What do you mean she's creating a new one?
What will she do with the old prayer list, offer it to Satan? Ridiculous!

I mean that she is constructing a prayer list from the requests of those at the site she is at now. I don't mean that she's "offered the old list to Satan" - for pity's sake! - just that it makes sense to have a list for the community she's chosen to join, separate from the old one for this community.

249 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:49:29pm

I'd guess maybe she was having trouble growing.
oh well...

250 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:50:05pm

re: #248 Dianna

I was being overly sarcastic, that's all.

251 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:50:05pm

re: #247 debutaunt

It just doesn't make sense.

True. No sense at all.

252 Throbert McGee  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:50:23pm

re: #9 Occasional Reader

Fun little experiment: Ask anyone who is railing against that horrible Auschwitz of our time!, Gitmo, whether he/she has ever expressed any concern about prison conditions anywhere else on the island of Cuba. Await blank stare.

Well, elsewhere on Gitmo, William T. Sampson K-12 School is a hellish prison in which the dependent children of military personnel are molded into brainless, Republican-leaning robo-patriots. Also, children as young as kindergarten age were brutally compelled to perform "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious" and "I'd Like To Teach the World to Sing" in unison, as though they were a barking chorus of trained poodles at the circus, rather than individual persons with feelings -- all for the degraded entertainment of their militaristic parents.

/s (for 'survivor')

253 JacksonTn  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:51:06pm

re: #247 debutaunt

It just doesn't make sense.

deb ... not the first casualty of this recent political climate ... hell, I have a niece and her husband who were huge Obama supporters (professors ... shocka right?) ... anyway, our relationship has suffered ... I am hoping we can get past it ... family is family and I am sick that this election affected us like it has ...

254 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:51:23pm

Volunteer keeper of the list needed.
*inquire within

255 Sharmuta  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:51:24pm

Goddess never sees the ill in anyone. Something that might lead her to get hurt by those with a less than decent heart than hers. I feel sad- I think she will come to regret this decision.

256 snowcrash  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:51:39pm

re: #237 Dianna
I did the same. Sad she is gone... but LGF2 is really low quality. She could have found a better new home IMO.

257 Kragar  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:52:02pm

re: #251 pre-Boomer Marine brat

True. No sense at all.

From her posts at the stalker site, she believed she was too conservative and too religious to stick around here.

258 reine.de.tout  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:52:32pm

re: #244 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I'm surprised by the lgf2 part of it.

I am too.
Place is a cesspool.

259 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:52:46pm

re: #256 snowcrash

I did the same. Sad she is gone... but LGF2 is really low quality. She could have found a better new home IMO.

My opinion isn't relevant in this, only GotC's.

I'm sorry she went, that's all.

260 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:52:50pm

re: #255 Sharmuta

Goddess never sees the ill in anyone. Something that might lead her to get hurt by those with a less than decent heart than hers. I feel sad- I think she will come to regret this decision.

Has her posting privileged here been revoked?

261 albusteve  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:53:18pm

re: #256 snowcrash

I did the same. Sad she is gone... but LGF2 is really low quality. She could have found a better new home IMO.

making a blog 'home' may be part of the problem...jus sayin

262 [deleted]  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:53:21pm
263 Tarkus289  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:53:41pm

Michael Scheuer is an ass.

264 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:54:06pm

I'm not saying anything, and - for GotC's sake - it might be a good idea for the rest of us not to say too much about the other place.

Remember that they watch this site.

265 snowcrash  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:54:53pm

re: #261 albusteve
Good point.

266 albusteve  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:55:00pm

re: #257 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

From her posts at the stalker site, she believed she was too conservative and too religious to stick around here.

I'm a heathen

267 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:56:08pm

re: #262 Iron Fist

I don't count either Goddess or Wrath as enemies.

268 [deleted]  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:56:39pm
269 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:56:52pm

re: #266 albusteve

I'm a heathen

Conservative, Orthodox, or Reform?

///

270 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:57:34pm

re: #266 albusteve

I'm a heathen

You're not alone; though since I'm an urban type, I'm thinking of describing myself as polytheistic.

I'm not a country person (pagan), nor do I live on a blasted heath (Wuthering Heights).

271 albusteve  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:58:00pm

re: #268 buzzsawmonkey

Sad, sad to hear. I will miss her.

Choosing to go elsewhere--well, it's a big world. I can understand that. What I don't understand is going to a stalk site where people, as I understand it, have been known to nic-jack the people here, and whose entire site raison d'etre is to be remoras pretending to be sharks.

seems more than a little ironic does it not?....she'd delusional

272 [deleted]  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:58:27pm
273 alegrias  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:58:51pm

re: #263 Tarkus289

Michael Scheuer is an ass.

* * * *
You said it, Scheuer's an attention whore & crazed antisemite Ass.
He's basically parroting antisemite leftist points about "our foreign policy vis a vis Israel" making terrorists want to attack us.

Glad this guy isn't collecting a CIA paycheck as head of the CIA's Bin Laden unit anymore.

274 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:59:04pm

re: #270 Dianna

You're not alone; though since I'm an urban type, I'm thinking of describing myself as polytheistic.

I'm not a country person (pagan), nor do I live on a blasted heath (Wuthering Heights).

On the subject of polytheism, old William S. Burroughs offered an interesting take on it. He argued that a monotheistic universe was psychologically frustrating because it couldn't explain failure. Polytheism, though, with many active divinities, could account for it by one god defeating another in a given situation.

275 albusteve  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:59:07pm

re: #269 Guanxi88

Conservative, Orthodox, or Reform?

///

unReformed

276 Idle Drifter  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:59:13pm

re: #246 MJ

Yes, folks, the rumors are really true:

New Michael Moore Documentary Coming In October


[Link: artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com...]

The NYT is already gearing up it's promo department.

Right on cue for Michael Moore to make money off other people's misfortunes and tragedies.

277 [deleted]  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:59:36pm
278 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 2:59:37pm

re: #275 albusteve

unReformed

Ahhh. Missouri Synod. Say no more.

279 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:00:33pm

re: #272 buzzsawmonkey

Good; trying to live on those blasted Heath bars gets really monotonous.

A lot of pagans end up with Mounds.

280 MJ  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:00:48pm

re: #263 Tarkus289

Michael Scheuer is an ass.

Yes, a Jew-hating ass:

[Link: www.weeklystandard.com...]

281 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:01:28pm

re: #279 pre-Boomer Marine brat

A lot of pagans end up with Mounds.

I thought it was Almond Joy? It better be - chocolate and coconut without nuts aren't going to work for me!

282 alegrias  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:01:49pm

re: #274 Guanxi88

On the subject of polytheism, old William S. Burroughs offered an interesting take on it. He argued that a monotheistic universe was psychologically frustrating because it couldn't explain failure. Polytheism, though, with many active divinities, could account for it by one god defeating another in a given situation.

* * * * *
Hello, who need polytheism when any decent monotheist knows the fallen angel (the Devil) serves as the foil, the alternative universe, the lesser alter-ego of the Deity.

283 Kragar  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:02:42pm

re: #274 Guanxi88

On the subject of polytheism, old William S. Burroughs offered an interesting take on it. He argued that a monotheistic universe was psychologically frustrating because it couldn't explain failure. Polytheism, though, with many active divinities, could account for it by one god defeating another in a given situation.

The idea of it anything being a failure is us trying to impose our judgement system on the equation. If dealing with a supreme being, who can say what constitutes success or failure in his eyes?

284 [deleted]  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:02:46pm
285 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:02:47pm

re: #281 Dianna

I thought it was Almond Joy? It better be - chocolate and coconut without nuts aren't going to work for me!

Actually, I was thinking burial "Mounds".
Didn't think the pun through.

286 MJ  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:02:54pm

re: #263 Tarkus289

Michael Scheuer is an ass.

Another antisemitic asshole that Fox News regularly features.

287 LGoPs  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:03:02pm

Just read the article. Thanks for posting it Charles.
I am seething.

288 Spare O'Lake  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:03:04pm

GOTC...
*bites knuckle*
*tears garment*

289 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:03:04pm

re: #282 alegrias

* * * * *
Hello, who need polytheism when any decent monotheist knows the fallen angel (the Devil) serves as the foil, the alternative universe, the lesser alter-ego of the Deity.

I think that elevating Old Scratch like that would almost make a sort of half-way polytheism out of it. Introducing all these other characters always complicates things, just like in a sit-com or a drama.

290 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:03:43pm

re: #282 alegrias

* * * * *
Hello, who need polytheism when any decent monotheist knows the fallen angel (the Devil) serves as the foil, the alternative universe, the lesser alter-ego of the Deity.

As Lewis pointed out, the adversary of the fallen angel is properly the archangel Michael.

291 alegrias  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:03:57pm

OT

Wasn't it great to see Lord Darth Vader come out & speak at the American Enterprise Institute today? He's not in the underworld as the left would like, but out defending America's right to self-defense, and not put up with leftist claptrap slander.

292 albusteve  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:04:05pm

re: #277 buzzsawmonkey

I don't know what prompted her decision, but I would never use "delusional" to describe Goddess.

maybe delusional is not a good descriptive and I'm not being malicious, but if we are not conservative and holy enough for her, is that to say that lgf2 is?...it makes no sense...I don't know another way to put it..I like her and am a bit stunned myself

293 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:04:27pm

re: #284 buzzsawmonkey

An interesting notion, but wrong. If one can account for failure by one god defeating another, that removes individual responsibility, lack of skill, and lack of knowledge from the equation. In other words, the polytheistic explanation makes failure OK, because success lies with the stronger god; the monotheistic universe requires looking for the reasons within one's self.

Which is why Yehuda HaLevi has the Rabbi say, "The Greek science has many flowers, but no fruit." Monotheism just works, even with all its foibles.

294 Kragar  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:04:30pm

re: #289 Guanxi88

I think that elevating Old Scratch like that would almost make a sort of half-way polytheism out of it. Introducing all these other characters always complicates things, just like in a sit-com or a drama.

Like in the Reformation when they introduced Saint Cousin Oliver?

295 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:04:51pm

re: #290 Dianna

As Lewis pointed out, the adversary of the fallen angel is properly the archangel Michael.

Metatron, formerly known as Enoch?

296 Leonidas Hoplite  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:05:04pm

Paging drcordell...you lobotomists are patiently waiting...

297 Occasional Reader  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:05:14pm

re: #282 alegrias

* * * * *
Hello, who need polytheism when any decent monotheist knows the fallen angel (the Devil) serves as the foil, the alternative universe, the lesser alter-ego of the Deity.

The one where Mr. Spock has a goatee?

298 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:06:05pm

re: #295 Guanxi88

Metatron, formerly known as Enoch?

No, Lucifer. The Son of the Morning Star.

299 alegrias  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:06:51pm

re: #286 MJ

Another antisemitic asshole that Fox News regularly features.

* * * * *
Presumably, as former head of the CIA's Bin Laden Unit, Scheuer must have been qualified for that job, or know something about the subject of Bin Laden.

Whatever happened to Scheuer since then, I have no clue. (BDS?)
But people have been known to go to the dark side, as we're talking about in this very thread.

300 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:06:54pm

re: #298 Dianna

No, Lucifer. The Son of the Morning Star.

I was speaking about Michael, and the legends of his origin.

Now, Lucifer, that's a complicated guy, right there.

301 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:06:59pm

re: #243 HoosierHoops

We'll talk off-line Brat

Hoops, did you see the blued nic upthread?
Doing it again, just in case.

302 Tarkus289  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:07:02pm

Just because so many people responded to my last post....
Michael Moore is an ass ............. too.

303 jcm  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:07:08pm

re: #274 Guanxi88

On the subject of polytheism, old William S. Burroughs offered an interesting take on it. He argued that a monotheistic universe was psychologically frustrating because it couldn't explain failure. Polytheism, though, with many active divinities, could account for it by one god defeating another in a given situation.

Interesting idea. But in the Christian monothesim there is an enemy, Satan who actively opposes God. And there is free will, individuals are free to choose paths and actions separate from God and God's will. As to natural events it works in with the whole creationism meme. Creationism supposes a high active God continually manipulating creation to His ends. Such a hands on God could then cause or prevent a natural calamity.

Failure and "bad" things aren't hard to explain. Maybe hard for some to understand.

304 DEZes  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:07:34pm

Reading though the thread, and saw the news about Goddess.
I will miss her.

305 Syrah  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:08:14pm

Off to run some errands.

Back later.

For some idle consideration on comparing religions, consider if you all will, the Yazidi.

They even warranted a posting here at LGF for stoning a young girl who had dared to consider marrying outside of the religion.

There tenants are very interesting.

306 Occasional Reader  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:08:23pm

Since the Devil has come up (not that I believe in him, either), I'll repost this from the previous thread:

Nocturne

Round and round the shutter'd Square
I strolled with the Devil's arm in mine.
No sound but the scrape of his hoofs was there
And the ring of his laughter and mine.
We had drunk black wine.


I scream'd, "I will race you, Master!"
"What matter," he shriek'd, "to-night
Which of us runs the faster?
There is nothing to fear to-night
In the foul moon's light!"

Then I look'd him in the eyes
And I laugh'd full shrill at the lie he told
And the gnawing fear he would fain disguise.
It was true, what I'd time and again been told:
He was old -- old.

-From "Enoch Soames", by Max Beerbohm*

Creepy, eh?

(*BTW, Max Beerbohm is not to be confused with that fin de siecle collegiate drinking apparatus pioneer, Max Beerbong.)

307 DEZes  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:08:31pm

re: #301 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Hoops, did you see the blued nic upthread?
Doing it again, just in case.


I see it, Bhahahaha!
;)

308 callahan23  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:08:56pm

re: #304 DEZes
I am a little shell shocked myself, I liked her.
Hello DEZes.

309 Digital Display  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:09:25pm

re: #301 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Hoops, did you see the blued nic upthread?
Doing it again, just in case.

I pinged you..Did it not go through? This laptop doesn't have email to speak off..I'm working off my Blackberry tonight...
Ping me..It works better
Zee nic iiz bluez

310 Russkilitlover  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:09:30pm

re: #268 buzzsawmonkey


Choosing to go elsewhere

She wrote that she was blocked and banned.

311 [deleted]  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:09:34pm
312 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:10:18pm

re: #304 DEZes

Reading though the thread, and saw the news about Goddess.
I will miss her.

Why not just take a break from posting at LGF rather than affiliating with people whose goal is tearing down LGF?

313 albusteve  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:10:18pm

re: #310 Russkilitlover

She wrote that she was blocked and banned.

after the fact, I believe...and why not?

314 Occasional Reader  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:10:19pm

re: #303 jcm

But in the Christian monothesim there is an enemy, Satan who actively opposes God.

Which, as I enjoy pointing out, means that Christianity is not really "monotheistic" in the strict sense of the word. (IMHO.)

315 DEZes  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:10:49pm

re: #308 callahan23

I am a little shell shocked myself, I liked her.
Hello DEZes.

Hey buddy.
Everyone seemed to like her, I guess she felt she didnt fit in.
I wish her the best.

316 Russkilitlover  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:11:17pm

re: #304 DEZes

Reading though the thread, and saw the news about Goddess.
I will miss her.

I'll miss our geek chats about grammar and her huge entry MWAH with attendant kitteh pics.

317 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:11:18pm

re: #303 jcm

Interesting idea. But in the Christian monothesim there is an enemy, Satan who actively opposes God. And there is free will, individuals are free to choose paths and actions separate from God and God's will. As to natural events it works in with the whole creationism meme. Creationism supposes a high active God continually manipulating creation to His ends. Such a hands on God could then cause or prevent a natural calamity.

Failure and "bad" things aren't hard to explain. Maybe hard for some to understand.

I think that's a big part of the appeal of what I've heard called "Sky-god monotheism"; it's simple and efficient precisely because it mutilates and constricts the view of things. Creationism, a fairly modern version of this heresy, is psychologically satisfying, precisely because it is overly simplistic and requires little intellectual effort.

Actually wrapping one's limited and fallible mind around the concept of an Almighty, Omniscient Being is a real challenge, even for trained theologians. For one with a mind so frail as my own, the task is overwhelming. Factor in natural fear and anxiety, and the idea of the Sky-god becomes much more appealing and reassuring than the mysterious and unknown Divinity.

318 OldLineTexan  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:12:26pm

re: #314 Occasional Reader

Which, as I enjoy pointing out, means that Christianity is not really "monotheistic" in the strict sense of the word. (IMHO.)

And you would be wrong, since Lucifer/Satan is an angel, i.e. a creation, in the standard Christian cosmology.

There are variations, granted.

319 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:12:33pm

re: #314 Occasional Reader

Which, as I enjoy pointing out, means that Christianity is not really "monotheistic" in the strict sense of the word. (IMHO.)

That's because of popular religion, which makes the Devil the equal of God.

Theologically, that's not the case.

320 DEZes  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:12:37pm

re: #312 unrealizedviewpoint

Why not just take a break from posting at LGF rather than affiliating with people whose goal is tearing down LGF?

I cant answer that, only she could.

321 Occasional Reader  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:13:01pm

Vis a vis an "omniscient" deity, "free will" cannot exist, by definition.

Discuss.

322 Tarkus289  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:13:16pm

re: #311 buzzsawmonkey

Not sure, but that would not surprise me, there seem to be so many.

323 [deleted]  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:13:25pm
324 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:14:03pm

re: #321 Occasional Reader

Vis a vis an "omniscient" deity, "free will" cannot exist, by definition.

Discuss.

Nicht wahr. The two are reconciled in the fact that Divine foreknowledge of a free choice does not condition that choice.

325 albusteve  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:14:13pm

re: #318 OldLineTexan

And you would be wrong, since Lucifer/Satan is an angel, i.e. a creation, in the standard Christian cosmology.

There are variations, granted.

he can steal your soul, that's all I care about....not what his pay grade is

326 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:14:27pm

re: #321 Occasional Reader

Vis a vis an "omniscient" deity, "free will" cannot exist, by definition.

Discuss.

Shroeddinger's cat.

The omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent deity can see all outcomes, so free will is preserved.

327 OldLineTexan  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:14:35pm

Ah, putting God in a box again.

It's not just Christians doing it anymore.

;)

328 Digital Display  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:14:49pm

re: #321 Occasional Reader

Vis a vis an "omniscient" deity, "free will" cannot exist, by definition.

Discuss.


I don't understand..What?

329 DEZes  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:14:57pm

re: #316 Russkilitlover

I'll miss our geek chats about grammar and her huge entry MWAH with attendant kitteh pics.

Her and Boomers back and fourth was great.

330 jcm  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:15:20pm

re: #314 Occasional Reader

Which, as I enjoy pointing out, means that Christianity is not really "monotheistic" in the strict sense of the word. (IMHO.)

I get your meaning. Lucifer / Satan isn't equal to God in the Christian traditions. He is part of creation, given great power, and rebelled because he consider himself greater than God.

A Lesser god so to speak.

That we can hold to the monotheistic ideal! ;-)

331 LGoPs  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:15:24pm

re: #310 Russkilitlover

She wrote that she was blocked and banned.

re: #323 buzzsawmonkey

Well, I missed that, and I'm extremely sorry to hear it.

That troubles me.

332 OldLineTexan  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:15:26pm

re: #325 albusteve

he can steal your soul, that's all I care about....not what his pay grade is

da debbil cannot take anything you dont give him

333 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:15:31pm

We all get angry at friends (usually over a disagreement) and maybe we don't talk to them for weeks, maybe even months, but we don't...

334 J.S.  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:15:32pm

re: #311 buzzsawmonkey

According to wiki not much is known about his personal background (but apparently he attended a Catholic private school, and got a PhD from a Canadian university in Manitoba.) suggestive of German (but perhaps not).

335 [deleted]  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:15:37pm
336 MJ  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:15:41pm

re: #299 alegrias

* * * * *
Presumably, as former head of the CIA's Bin Laden Unit, Scheuer must have been qualified for that job, or know something about the subject of Bin Laden.

Whatever happened to Scheuer since then, I have no clue. (BDS?)
But people have been known to go to the dark side, as we're talking about in this very thread.

Frankly, the CIA is filled with Israel haters. Always been that way going all the way back to Dulles. There are, of course, a couple of exceptions along the way- James Jesus Angleton and James Woolsey come to mind. But most are just like Scheuer.

337 UFO TOFU  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:15:44pm

re: #306 Occasional Reader

I did a little looking around on that; very different.

338 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:15:59pm

re: #325 albusteve

he can steal your soul, that's all I care about....not what his pay grade is

No, the devil cannot steal your soul.

Your soul is your own, and you choose its fate. The devil cannot act, he can only persuade.

Damn, doesn't anyone read theology any more?

339 alegrias  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:16:01pm

Fox had footage of John McCain who wants GITMO closed, and behind him was his former presidential campaign advisor, John Weaver the unkempt democrat who hated Karl Rove, and who was tossed off McCain's presidential campaign last year.

Last weekend, after Pres. Obama named Gov. Huntsman of Utah our next ambassador to China, it was reported Weaver was advising Governor Huntsman presumably on presidential 2012 moves of the "bi partisan, across the aisle, moderate, weak" Republican kind.

McCain, ughhhh. Attention whore.

340 callahan23  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:16:21pm

re: #315 DEZes

Hey buddy.
Everyone seemed to like her, I guess she felt she didnt fit in.
I wish her the best.

I feel for her as it is a cold world out there without your usual friends. And if it is only for a few hours in which you realize that you will not be enjoying the good old 'n trusted company.

341 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:16:39pm

re: #335 buzzsawmonkey

Heck, everyone knows that G-d is the 25% of the universe that is composed of "dark matter," which science can detect but not plumb the nature of.

Forgot your ////

342 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:17:17pm

re: #328 HoosierHoops

I don't understand..What?

God knows all - omniscient.

God is everywhere - omnipresent.

God is all-powerful - omnipotent.

343 albusteve  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:17:29pm

re: #332 OldLineTexan

da debbil cannot take anything you dont give him

it involved eternal free beer....I was weak

344 IslandLibertarian  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:17:30pm

re: #328 HoosierHoops

I don't understand..What?

semantics.......angels, head of a pin, philosophical fluff.......

345 OldLineTexan  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:17:31pm

re: #335 buzzsawmonkey

Heck, everyone knows that G-d is the 25% of the universe that is composed of "dark matter," which science can detect but not plumb the nature of.

Well, of course we can't plumb that. The service call charge for the universe is enormous, and that doesn't even consider parts, labor, and overtime!

346 Occasional Reader  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:17:48pm

re: #318 OldLineTexan

And you would be wrong, since Lucifer/Satan is an angel, i.e. a creation, in the standard Christian cosmology.

There are variations, granted.

Where you been, Tex?

Anyway, your argument depends on the definition of a "god" being something not created by another god; and I don't believe that's a necessary part of the definition.

347 OldLineTexan  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:17:50pm

re: #343 albusteve

it involved eternal free beer....I was weak

D'oh!

/

348 DEZes  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:18:50pm

Dead Lemur, I gotta see whats zis.

349 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:19:06pm

re: #343 albusteve

it involved eternal free beer....I was weak

He didn't tell you it was Natural Light, did he? That's his way.

350 OldLineTexan  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:19:23pm

re: #346 Occasional Reader

Where you been, Tex?

Anyway, your argument depends on the definition of a "god" being something not created by another god; and I don't believe that's a necessary part of the definition.

I was in Atlanta over the weekend; had a blast, but it's nice to be back.

I will have to say that from a Christian standpoint it IS absolutely necessary that a "god" is NOT a created being.

If we are going to argue theology, we are going to end up in theological terms.

351 albusteve  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:19:34pm

re: #338 Dianna

No, the devil cannot steal your soul.

Your soul is your own, and you choose its fate. The devil cannot act, he can only persuade.

Damn, doesn't anyone read theology any more?

no, but I don't read it any less either....if there are gods and devils they will have their way with me I guess

352 alegrias  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:19:55pm

re: #314 Occasional Reader

Which, as I enjoy pointing out, means that Christianity is not really "monotheistic" in the strict sense of the word. (IMHO.)

* * * *
Mil demonios! As my grandmother would say as a curse.

Someone can fact check but El demonio is not equal to God, he's just an evil pretender campaigning for top dog.

353 MJ  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:20:15pm

re: #311 buzzsawmonkey

Is he an antisemitic Jew, or does his "Jewish"-sounding name merely indicate Germanic origins?

German. Not Jewish. Antisemite:

Michael Scheuer Watch #1: The Jewish Conspiracy
06.07.2007 - 12:49 PM

Are Jews running U.S. foreign policy from behind the scenes? This is a question lately on many lips, from those of Jimmy Carter to professors John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt, respectively of the University of Chicago and Harvard, on down to David Duke, Ph.D., of the Ku Klux Klan.

One of the pioneers in resurrecting this idea, first put into wide circulation in this country in the early part of the 20th century by the industrialist Henry Ford in his tract The International Jew, is Michael Scheuer. Formerly of the CIA, where he ran the unit responsible for tracking down Osama bin Laden, Scheuer has not only kept himself occupied writing books—see my discussion of one of them in What Became of the CIA—he has also been busy on the lecture circuit...

[Link: www.commentarymagazine.com...]

Also, a supporter of Ron Paul:

On May 24, 2007, Ron Paul and Scheuer held a press conference at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C. about the causes that led up to 9/11, American foreign policy and its implications on terrorism, security and Iraq.[12] Paul and Scheuer argued that Rudy Giuliani is wrong on security and foreign policy and provided documentation about the unintended consequences of interventionism - known to many in the intelligence world as blowback - and assigned Giuliani a reading list of foreign policy books, including Dying to Win, Blowback, Imperial Hubris and the 9/11 Commission Report.[13]
On Larry King Live, September 7, 2007, Scheuer alluded to the Fox News Republican Debate of September 5, 2007, where a Fox News moderator accused Ron Paul of taking "marching orders" from Al Qaeda. Scheuer said, "The truth of the matter is that it is all of the Democrats and the Republicans, except perhaps for Mr. Paul and Mr. Kucinich, who are marching to Osama Bin Laden's drum." Larry King Live Transcript

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

354 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:20:17pm

re: #349 Guanxi88

He didn't tell you it was Natural Light, did he? That's his way.

The devil is a liar and a conjurer, too.
If you don't watch out, he'll conjure you.

355 LGoPs  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:20:50pm

re: #99 solomonpanting

In his speech today, Obama had this to say about waterboarding and other enhanced interrogation techniques:


He doesn't deny that they work. I wonder what other means he might use under pressure circumstances?

Unleash the White House Press Corps on them? That's what he threatened the Chrysler bondholders with I think, and they folded.
/

356 [deleted]  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:21:04pm
357 OldLineTexan  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:21:10pm

I love lemurs. Sad that one is dead. They are much funnier than the penguins.

/

358 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:21:32pm

re: #351 albusteve

no, but I don't read it any less either....if there are gods and devils they will have their way with me I guess

Just don't sign any contracts you haven't read!

359 OldLineTexan  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:22:01pm

re: #358 Dianna

Just don't sign any contracts you haven't read!

And don't use blood.

Oh, and a gold fiddle would be heavy and sound terrible!

360 Colin Nelson  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:22:13pm

Cheney wiped the floor with the Obamatron.

For anyone aware that the decisions made by those in high office must be based on the facts as they find them at the time, it is becoming glaringly clear that Barry is chock full of hope.

BHO's superior attitude is getting a little pitiful - I expect him to stamp his foot next time the ex V.P gives him another thrashing.

361 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:22:30pm

re: #309 HoosierHoops

I pinged you..Did it not go through? This laptop doesn't have email to speak off..I'm working off my Blackberry tonight...
Ping me..It works better
Zee nic iiz bluez

It's on its way.

362 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:22:36pm

re: #359 OldLineTexan

And don't use blood.

Oh, and a gold fiddle would be heavy and sound terrible!

The Devil went down to Georgia!

363 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:23:08pm

re: #319 Dianna

Check your email Inbox

364 albusteve  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:23:11pm

re: #349 Guanxi88

He didn't tell you it was Natural Light, did he? That's his way.

it's warm too...I'm mightily pissed....there is no ice in hell that I can find and room service ignores me...I got stiffed

365 alegrias  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:23:12pm

re: #336 MJ

Frankly, the CIA is filled with Israel haters. Always been that way going all the way back to Dulles. There are, of course, a couple of exceptions along the way- James Jesus Angleton and James Woolsey come to mind. But most are just like Scheuer.

* * * *
You'd think people in our INTELLIGENCE agencies would recognize a DEMOCRATIC ally like Israel is a better friend than totalitarians who behead willy nilly.

366 AFVetWife  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:23:24pm

Regarding the dueling speeches today, does anyone think it's ironic that The One's was given at the National Archives where there was recently a problem regarding missing data about the Clintons?
I think Cheney's speech was great - I'm so glad he's unleashed now. Gitmo works and must continue to do so.

367 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:23:37pm

re: #357 OldLineTexan

I love lemurs. Sad that one is dead. They are much funnier than the penguins.

/

My kids love that show!

368 nyc redneck  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:24:11pm

the left will say or do anything to gain and hold power.
they will even put this country in grave danger to further their own desires to
be in control.
i don't trust them. i don't respect them.
their dangerous behavior in the current political climate is nothing short of traitorous.
they are despicable.

369 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:24:22pm

re: #359 OldLineTexan

Oh, and a gold fiddle would be heavy and sound terrible!

It'd be easy to pawn, though. Musicians are frequently lean on the green, you know.

370 Occasional Reader  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:24:32pm

re: #328 HoosierHoops

I don't understand..What?

The argument being; if it's the case that God is "omniscient", nothing you can do will ever surprise him, so to speak. He already knows every choice you will ever make. He already knows whether you're going to heaven or hell. So there's no real sense in which you have "free will" with respect to such a being.

(By the way, I'm making this as purely a rhetorical point, since I believe in neither God, "omniscience", heaven, nor hell.)

371 debutaunt  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:24:35pm

re: #333 unrealizedviewpoint

We all get angry at friends (usually over a disagreement) and maybe we don't talk to them for weeks, maybe even months, but we don't...

It isn't easy to get banned from here.

372 OldLineTexan  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:24:58pm

re: #362 Dianna

The Devil went down to Georgia!

Dang, did I just give myself away?

/actually, I am an emissary of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial!

/

/

373 [deleted]  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:25:08pm
374 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:25:20pm

re: #363 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Check your email Inbox

Read and replied. Thank you!

375 albusteve  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:25:48pm

re: #371 debutaunt

It isn't easy to get banned from here.

heh...

376 Occasional Reader  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:26:02pm

re: #350 OldLineTexan

I will have to say that from a Christian standpoint it IS absolutely necessary that a "god" is NOT a created being.

And yet many of the religions which we routinely describe as "polytheistic" include "gods" which are described in their own mythology as created beings. (Sprung from the brow of another god, fully armed... for instance.)

377 OldLineTexan  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:26:34pm

re: #364 albusteve

it's warm too...I'm mightily pissed....there is no ice in hell that I can find and room service ignores me...I got stiffed

HA!

Reminds me of my childhood:

Me: Dad, I want [whatever]
Dad: Son, people in Hell want ice water.

/crickets

378 Lincolntf  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:26:39pm

Damn, I just had a great burger. Thank God for grilling season!

379 Occasional Reader  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:27:22pm

re: #359 OldLineTexan

Oh, and a gold fiddle would be heavy and sound terrible!

Also: The Devil won that particular competition, his piece was much better than Johnny's. Sure, he cheated, by getting a "band of demons" as accompaniment... but hey, he's the frickkin' Devil, what did you expect?

380 OldLineTexan  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:27:29pm

re: #376 Occasional Reader

And yet many of the religions which we routinely describe as "polytheistic" include "gods" which are described in their own mythology as created beings. (Sprung from the brow of another god, fully armed... for instance.)

Back to the intentional use of the word "Christian". I am not involved in defending/defining Greek pantheons in any way.

381 JacksonTn  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:28:16pm

Charles ... is it possible for you to make it so we can embed the yahoo videos like the youtube videos ... I am getting sick of youtube ... just wonderin ..

382 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:28:27pm

re: #371 debutaunt

It isn't easy to get banned from here.

I know I keep trying.
/

383 alegrias  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:29:03pm

re: #366 AFVetWife

Regarding the dueling speeches today, does anyone think it's ironic that The One's was given at the National Archives where there was recently a problem regarding missing data about the Clintons?
I think Cheney's speech was great - I'm so glad he's unleashed now. Gitmo works and must continue to do so.

* * * *
Cheney's daughter Liz has also been out talking about her father's right to speak when he feels it necessary.

Liz Cheney is a young mother of 5 but what a great level headed leader she'll make. I'll be on board supporting her all the way!

Liz Cheney will be on Fox's Hannity tonight I think.
VICTORY LAP for CHENEYs!

384 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:29:08pm

re: #379 Occasional Reader

Also: The Devil won that particular competition, his piece was much better than Johnny's. Sure, he cheated, by getting a "band of demons" as accompaniment... but hey, he's the frickkin' Devil, what did you expect?

Not according to the song!

The Devil just bowed his head 'cause he knew that he'd been beat;
And he laid that golden fiddle down at Johnny's feet.

385 OldLineTexan  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:29:10pm

re: #382 unrealizedviewpoint

I know I keep trying.
/

There is no try. There is do, or do not.

/

386 albusteve  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:29:32pm

re: #379 Occasional Reader

Also: The Devil won that particular competition, his piece was much better than Johnny's. Sure, he cheated, by getting a "band of demons" as accompaniment... but hey, he's the frickkin' Devil, what did you expect?

you ever see Charlie Danials?....he'd disagree

387 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:29:58pm

re: #376 Occasional Reader

And yet many of the religions which we routinely describe as "polytheistic" include "gods" which are described in their own mythology as created beings. (Sprung from the brow of another god, fully armed... for instance.)

re: #380 OldLineTexan

Back to the intentional use of the word "Christian". I am not involved in defending/defining Greek pantheons in any way.

Yeah, the Olympian gods are a very different kettle of fish than the Lord Almighty. Very different, indeed. I've always subscribed to the theory that these Greek tales were a combination of the following:

1) Dimly-recalled tales of great men of old;
2) Poets doing what poets do best - makin' stuff up;
3) Esoteric instruction in doctrines not meant for public consumption, but essential to the ruling of a human society.

But, what do I know?

388 Occasional Reader  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:30:04pm

re: #352 alegrias

Someone can fact check but El demonio is not equal to God

Your counter-argument supposes that a "polytheistic" religion by definition posits multiple gods who are equals. And that is not the case. For instance, the ancient Greek "polytheistic" pantheon quite clearly had Zeus as il capo de tutti capi.

389 Macker  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:30:06pm

re: #15 VioletTiger

But...but...Mama Moonbat says it's expensivedom!

390 MJ  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:30:45pm

re: #365 alegrias

* * * *
You'd think people in our INTELLIGENCE agencies would recognize a DEMOCRATIC ally like Israel is a better friend than totalitarians who behead willy nilly.

Yes, but it's not about Democracy or allies. It's about an agency which thought of itself as the bastion of White Anglo-Saxon privilege. Jews were always suspect...when they were hired which were few and far between. That's still the case today.
Almost every leak which is designed to damage relations between the US and Israel comes from the CIA or FBI. Been that way for decades.

391 Lincolntf  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:30:47pm

re: #356 buzzsawmonkey

SciAm had an issue devoted to that topic last month. Dark Energy was the main focus, but it's always interesting to see scientists discussing the Universe expanding when the necessary implication is that if it's expanding, it must be taking up "space", which should have been included in the definition of "Universe" to begin with.
I think we're still a long way away from figuring out the fundamental secrets of the Universe.

392 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:30:57pm

I'm out.

Take care, lizards.

393 Occasional Reader  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:31:05pm

re: #380 OldLineTexan

Back to the intentional use of the word "Christian". I am not involved in defending/defining Greek pantheons in any way.

But then your argument just turns into... well, begging the question (correctly used, for once!). "Christianity isn't polytheistic because Christians don't define it that way."

394 alegrias  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:31:06pm

GITMO boyz get Al Jazeera television, sudoku, one healthcare worker for every two detainees, special foods that are better than what is served on Capitol Hill....per John Barroso, (R-Montana), a former orthopedic surgeon.

395 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:31:14pm

re: #304 DEZes

Reading though the thread, and saw the news about Goddess.
I will miss her.

I would say the same except I can't get over her 1) not having the ovaries to say a word to anyone here, 2) going over to LGF2 and registering the same nic, 3) starting up her trademark prayer list there as if the one she ran here, and the people she ran it for, suddenly mean nothing, 4) not responding to emails from friends asking what happened (it's been over twenty-four hours since Realwest contacted her and he hasn't said anything about hearing from her), and 5) general cowardice.

Good riddance. And I don't need prayers from people for whom they're conditional on my political correctness, whether the required PC be wingnutty or moonbatty. I now think the "prayer list" is more about her than the people listed. For that I have zero respect.

396 JacksonTn  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:31:14pm

re: #386 albusteve

you ever see Charlie Danials?....he'd disagree

albusteve ... Charlie got religion ... he has taken out many of the words of some of his most popular songs ... and replaced them with more "appropriate" ones ... he does not sing the same song lyrics on Devil at the Opry ...

397 OldLineTexan  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:31:41pm

I must away anon.

Perhaps later to return, who can say? Parting is such sweet kumquats. Do not weep for the dead, Horation, they no longer feel pain.

/

398 Occasional Reader  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:32:33pm

re: #384 Dianna

Not according to the song!

The Devil just bowed his head 'cause he knew that he'd been beat;
And he laid that golden fiddle down at Johnny's feet.

Yes, I know that's what the song says... my point was, the fix was in!

399 Dianna  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:32:33pm

re: #395 Cato the Elder

Please, don't go on like that!

400 OldLineTexan  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:32:33pm

re: #393 Occasional Reader

But then your argument just turns into... well, begging the question (correctly used, for once!). "Christianity isn't polytheistic because Christians don't define it that way."

Damned straight son, and the sooner you get it through your skull the easier this'll be.

/

Damned if I will let atheists define my God for me.

401 [deleted]  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:32:55pm
402 OldLineTexan  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:33:17pm

re: #401 buzzsawmonkey

Oh, I'd agree wholeheartedly.

The answer is 42.

Out.

403 Occasional Reader  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:33:45pm

re: #387 Guanxi88

I've always subscribed to the theory that these Greek tales were a combination of the following:

1) Dimly-recalled tales of great men of old;
2) Poets doing what poets do best - makin' stuff up;
3) Esoteric instruction in doctrines not meant for public consumption, but essential to the ruling of a human society.

I agree. Of course, I think much the same thing of the Judeo-Christian tradition, but, well, there ya go.

404 LGoPs  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:33:54pm

re: #368 nyc redneck

the left will say or do anything to gain and hold power.
they will even put this country in grave danger to further their own desires to
be in control.
i don't trust them. i don't respect them.
their dangerous behavior in the current political climate is nothing short of traitorous.
they are despicable.

Dead on. If this administration insists on Truth Commissions I demand that they also look into the NYT and the leakers that revealed truly damaging information on our surveillance practices. That was treason committed in the middle of a war.
Bring it the fuck on.

405 Captain Jack  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:34:05pm

How sad that the torture story line along with the katrina story line along with the corruption story line was used by the wealthy liberal editors and producers in the media most people see to get their ideological soul mate Obama into office so they can begin work on their socialist collectivist utopia. Now if they could only get 12-15million illegals on board the welfare boat we could have a permanent liberal governing majority. Once they pack the courts your vote wont count to effect government policy for decades. Of course people will not give up there goodies. I guess all maturing civilizations eventually weaken as the time passes and memories fade from all the blood that was spilled to make them possible in the first place.

406 alegrias  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:34:22pm

re: #388 Occasional Reader

Your counter-argument supposes that a "polytheistic" religion by definition posits multiple gods who are equals. And that is not the case. For instance, the ancient Greek "polytheistic" pantheon quite clearly had Zeus as il capo de tutti capi.

* * * *
Whew, thanks.

407 albusteve  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:34:24pm

re: #396 JacksonTn

albusteve ... Charlie got religion ... he has taken out many of the words of some of his most popular songs ... and replaced them with more "appropriate" ones ... he does not sing the same song lyrics on Devil at the Opry ...

maybe...but he utterly tore up the kid's solo on the devil song when I saw him from the front row...just went OFF...greatest fiddle gig I ever saw, right there...that's what I was referring to

408 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:34:45pm

re: #399 Dianna

That was my one and only comment on the matter.

409 J.S.  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:35:01pm

re: #395 Cato the Elder

there's a tad of cruelness there (especially when I think about RealWest..), very, very disappointed in her...

410 [deleted]  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:35:59pm
411 Russkilitlover  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:36:12pm

re: #395 Cato the Elder

Bad form!

412 AFVetWife  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:36:13pm

Wish I had more time to hang around - AFVet and I are going to Indy tomorrow (oh for joy) for the race. I'll be glad to see his family, but have no beat in my heart for the race. Hold good thoughts that we have a safe drive. May you all have a wonderful Memorial Day weekend, and be sure to remember all those who have served, all who are serving, and all who made the ultimate sacrifice for our freedom!

413 Occasional Reader  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:37:17pm

re: #400 OldLineTexan


Damned if I will let atheists define my God for me.

I didn't attempt to define your God; I'm referring to definitions of the words "monothesitic" and "polytheistic".

414 alegrias  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:37:35pm

re: #390 MJ

Yes, but it's not about Democracy or allies. It's about an agency which thought of itself as the bastion of White Anglo-Saxon privilege. Jews were always suspect...when they were hired which were few and far between. That's still the case today.
Almost every leak which is designed to damage relations between the US and Israel comes from the CIA or FBI. Been that way for decades.

* * * * *
Hmmm.

Colin Powell as our Secretary of State, with his deputy dawg Richard Armitage, did quite the number leaking Valerie Pflame's name & her ridiculous hubby's yellowcake adventures with Saddam.

Talk about undermining our country & damaging relations. Thanks, Powell NOT.

415 albusteve  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:38:11pm

re: #407 albusteve

maybe...but he utterly tore up the kid's solo on the devil song when I saw him from the front row...just went OFF...greatest fiddle gig I ever saw, right there...that's what I was referring to

he was playing an electric blue fiddle and the light were flashing off the pickups like lightning....bow hairs were flying in circles, whipped back and forth...quite a sight

416 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:38:38pm

re: #411 Russkilitlover

Bad form!

Your problem.

417 Occasional Reader  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:39:29pm

Devil: I admit, your tune was better.

Johnny: Woo-hoo!

Devil: But I'm taking your soul anyway.

Johnny: But... that's not fair! We had a deal!

Devil: Which part of "Prince of Darkness" didn't you understand?

418 Digital Display  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:39:35pm

re: #412 AFVetWife

Wish I had more time to hang around - AFVet and I are going to Indy tomorrow (oh for joy) for the race. I'll be glad to see his family, but have no beat in my heart for the race. Hold good thoughts that we have a safe drive. May you all have a wonderful Memorial Day weekend, and be sure to remember all those who have served, all who are serving, and all who made the ultimate sacrifice for our freedom!

Awesome! Welcome to Indy!

419 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:40:20pm

re: #403 Occasional Reader

I agree. Of course, I think much the same thing of the Judeo-Christian tradition, but, well, there ya go.

Now that's similar, but different, as it were. One can very easily read Torah and the Prophets and find a great deal there that is not purely theological. There's an explanation for it, of course. As the One Who spoke and brought the world into being shared some portion of His wisdom (actually, pure knowledge and truth) with humans, it necessarily became changed in its presentation. The Divine intellect works perfectly, of course, but the human mind must proceed by way of argumentation and image to arrive at correct conclusions and/or true opinions. Thus, the imagery in prophetic works.

Solomon tells us "A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in silver filigree." But what can this mean? Why should a base metal be used to cover gold? Answer: the silver filigree is itself beautiful - it requires no addition or change to be appreciated for what it is. However, as we examine it more closely, we see through the gaps in the filigree to the precious thing concealed within. Even so is it with Holy Writ; the surface is beautiful and desirable for its own sake, and yet, it hints at glimpses of something truly precious beneath. Thus, Scripture in general is wisdom for the simple (they who see only the silver filigree work, the exoteric teaching), and a mystery to the wise (who must seek glimpses of the gold within it).

420 Digital Display  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:40:22pm

re: #417 Occasional Reader

Devil: I admit, your tune was better.

Johnny: Woo-hoo!

Devil: But I'm taking your soul anyway.

Johnny: But... that's not fair! We had a deal!

Devil: Which part of "Prince of Darkness" didn't you understand?

Time to cut heads! Hey Devil..you got a guitar hanging around here?

421 albusteve  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:40:45pm

re: #417 Occasional Reader

Devil: I admit, your tune was better.

Johnny: Woo-hoo!

Devil: But I'm taking your soul anyway.

Johnny: But... that's not fair! We had a deal!

Devil: Which part of "Prince of Darkness" didn't you understand?

and to this day Johnny plays fiddle in the Robert Johnson Band

422 Sharmuta  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:41:40pm

It's strange to see Cato getting beat up for speaking bluntly, when it was Goddess who spit in our faces with her decision. I'm sorry it's painful for folks, I don't like it either, but it's the plain truth. Goddess didn't respect us enough to tell us she was going and why. Instead of accepting that decent people can see things differently concerning religion but it doesn't reduce the respect we have for each other, she took up with a group of haters. She doesn't see the difference? I worry for her- she is in for a rude awakening.

423 Digital Display  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:41:42pm

re: #421 albusteve

and to this day Johnny plays fiddle in the Robert Johnson Band

Do you think Denver can win tonight?

424 albusteve  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:42:59pm

re: #423 HoosierHoops

Do you think Denver can win tonight?

maybe if someone guards Kobe....early and hard

425 SixDegrees  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:44:52pm

re: #276 Idle Drifter

Right on cue for Michael Moore to make money off other people's misfortunes and tragedies.

I'm somewhat interested to see what the reaction to this is. His last effort was a disaster at the box office, and was hammered by critics who took him to task over both the distorted content and Moore's penchant for claiming "it's not a documentary, it's comedy" when confronted by his gross manipulations of fact. Even his normally supportive friends in the press were holding their noses and proclaiming it's stench.

The bloom may be off the rose. His own sense of self-importance washes over everything he touches now, and it just isn't funny to anyone.

426 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:44:54pm

re: #424 albusteve

maybe if someone guards Kobe....early and hard

What, like that whole Tonya Harding deal?

427 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:45:15pm

re: #410 buzzsawmonkey

Just out of curiosity, Cato--what was your objection to the poem upthread?

Because I really feel you do owe more than just an apology to Lewis Carroll. You owe him a bottle of fine brandy poured on his grave, and a series of masses said for his soul's repose, which you have disturbed.

For such things to work, they just have to work.

The rhymes are forced, bad, or off. The scansion is awful. The "story" makes no sense. It's an exercise in chest-puffery.

I'd give it mega-updings if it worked as a parody, even though I disagree with it politically. As it is, the elitist snob critic in me will be brutally honest and say: "That sucks!"

428 albusteve  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:45:42pm

re: #426 Guanxi88

What, like that whole Tonya Harding deal?

WHY ME!....

429 Killgore Trout  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:46:10pm

re: #422 Sharmuta

Try not to take it personally. We've seen this before and we'll see it again. People need to go their own way. People will come and go here as they always have.

I find it odd they're now objecting to being called "stalkers" on a thread where the 1st comment is about Charles' bodily fluids on body parts.

430 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:46:34pm

re: #428 albusteve

WHY ME!....

For that little tantrum, alone, she deserved to get knee-capped. Two for flinching

431 snowcrash  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:47:31pm

re: #422 Sharmuta
It is quite possible her goodbye post would be considered "flouncing off "and be mocked.

432 Sharmuta  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:48:09pm

re: #429 Killgore Trout

I'm not taking it personally. I think others are. You and I might be a bit more accustomed to this sort of thing. I'm just trying to help the others understand that we must not have meant much to her for her to treat us like this.

433 jcm  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:48:30pm

re: #402 OldLineTexan

The answer is 42.

Out.

It the question that's the difficult part.

434 Occasional Reader  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:48:42pm

re: #427 Cato the Elder

He who lives by the downding, etc.

Lighten up.

435 Sharmuta  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:49:37pm

re: #431 snowcrash

I would have more respect for someone saying, "I'm no longer happy and I'm moving on" than what we got.

436 JacksonTn  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:49:47pm

re: #427 Cato the Elder

Because I really feel you do owe more than just an apology to Lewis Carroll. You owe him a bottle of fine brandy poured on his grave, and a series of masses said for his soul's repose, which you have disturbed.

For such things to work, they just have to work.

The rhymes are forced, bad, or off. The scansion is awful. The "story" makes no sense. It's an exercise in chest-puffery.

I'd give it mega-updings if it worked as a parody, even though I disagree with it politically. As it is, the elitist snob critic in me will be brutally honest and say: "That sucks!"

CtE ... I am thinking you owe Buzz a bottle of brandy now .... Buzz don't hurt nobody ...

/just sayin ...

437 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:50:30pm

re: #434 Occasional Reader

He who lives by the downding, etc.

Lighten up.

Your downdings are yours to fling as you see fit.

Crap is crap.

438 albusteve  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:51:25pm

re: #427 Cato the Elder

Because I really feel you do owe more than just an apology to Lewis Carroll. You owe him a bottle of fine brandy poured on his grave, and a series of masses said for his soul's repose, which you have disturbed.

For such things to work, they just have to work.

The rhymes are forced, bad, or off. The scansion is awful. The "story" makes no sense. It's an exercise in chest-puffery.

I'd give it mega-updings if it worked as a parody, even though I disagree with it politically. As it is, the elitist snob critic in me will be brutally honest and say: "That sucks!"

oh good grief...Lewis Carroll id dead....so what?

439 JacksonTn  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:52:01pm

re: #437 Cato the Elder

Your downdings are yours to fling as you see fit.

Crap is crap.

CtE ... consider mine flung ... not that you care ...

440 Digital Display  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:53:45pm

re: #435 Sharmuta

I would have more respect for someone saying, "I'm no longer happy and I'm moving on" than what we got.

I'm sad to see her go...But if that's where she wants to hang..go for it..
The lizards here have been very kind to me and Charles has been an Island in the middle of insanity...
I love you guys!

441 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:55:00pm

re: #439 JacksonTn

I really don't.

442 nyc redneck  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:55:03pm

re: #427 Cato the Elder

Because I really feel you do owe more than just an apology to Lewis Carroll. You owe him a bottle of fine brandy poured on his grave, and a series of masses said for his soul's repose, which you have disturbed.

For such things to work, they just have to work.

The rhymes are forced, bad, or off. The scansion is awful. The "story" makes no sense. It's an exercise in chest-puffery.

I'd give it mega-updings if it worked as a parody, even though I disagree with it politically. As it is, the elitist snob critic in me will be brutally honest and say: "That sucks!"

LOL, look at this b.s.
you forget your sarc tag?
or are you just an insufferable belligerent grouch ?

443 SixDegrees  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:55:25pm

re: #350 OldLineTexan


I will have to say that from a Christian standpoint it IS absolutely necessary that a "god" is NOT a created being.

Some documents associated with very early Christianity take a different view. See The Gnostic Gospels, by Elaine Pagels, for details on these and other ancient documents.

As far as I know, the Bible is pretty much silent on God's provenance. It never claims an origin for Him, but neither does it explicitly say there wasn't one. It is much more concerned with God's relationship to mankind, which is pretty much where the story starts off after a very short preamble.

444 Sharmuta  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:55:30pm

re: #440 HoosierHoops

I love you guys too, and I'm not leaving.

445 [deleted]  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:55:35pm
446 Russkilitlover  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:55:53pm

re: #422 Sharmuta

It's strange to see Cato getting beat up for speaking bluntly, when it was Goddess who spit in our faces with her decision. I'm sorry it's painful for folks, I don't like it either, but it's the plain truth. Goddess didn't respect us enough to tell us she was going and why. Instead of accepting that decent people can see things differently concerning religion but it doesn't reduce the respect we have for each other, she took up with a group of haters. She doesn't see the difference? I worry for her- she is in for a rude awakening.

Umm....hello? Dramatic goodbyes have been known to earn the stick.

447 callahan23  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:57:52pm

re: #440 HoosierHoops

I'm sad to see her go...But if that's where she wants to hang..go for it..
The lizards here have been very kind to me and Charles has been an Island in the middle of insanity...
I love you guys!

Me, I also loves 'sis place and peoples a lot.
Just sayin'. {Hoops}

448 Sharmuta  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:58:02pm

re: #431 snowcrash

I don't think that's what would have happened. I think the Lizards would have begged her to reconsider.

449 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:58:06pm

re: #443 SixDegrees

Some documents associated with very early Christianity take a different view. See The Gnostic Gospels, by Elaine Pagels, for details on these and other ancient documents.

As far as I know, the Bible is pretty much silent on God's provenance. It never claims an origin for Him, but neither does it explicitly say there wasn't one. It is much more concerned with God's relationship to mankind, which is pretty much where the story starts off after a very short preamble.

And this is because that's the part that's important to people; the finer points of theology are for later - practical stuff first. You need to know Who's the Boss, and what you're supposed to be doing; corporate operations and the finer points of company history are not the stuff of first-day orientation.

450 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:58:26pm

re: #438 albusteve

It's one thing to nod politely while a sixth grader grinds her excruciating way through a parody of some famous poem. Don't expect me to do it for an adult.

And Buzz asked me why the downding, so I told him. Language is something I care about, and I don't pretend it's well-used when it's not.

That's what.

451 Sharmuta  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:58:34pm

re: #446 Russkilitlover

Umm....hello? Dramatic goodbyes have been known to earn the stick.

So does posting at stalker blogs.

452 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:58:50pm

re: #444 Sharmuta

I love you guys too, and I'm not leaving.

Ugh! Enough with the nice stuff! Reminds me of why I quite going to the AA meetings.

453 snowcrash  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:59:21pm

re: #448 Sharmuta
I think so too.

454 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 21, 2009 3:59:41pm

re: #446 Russkilitlover

Umm....hello? Dramatic goodbyes have been known to earn the stick.

Skulking off to pray for the stalkers has had the same result.

455 pingjockey  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:00:01pm

re: #451 Sharmuta

That's a fact!
Good afternoon all!

456 callahan23  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:00:27pm

re: #452 Guanxi88

Ugh! Enough with the nice stuff! Reminds me of why I quite going to the AA meetings.

Lol, shall I give you a hug?
;-D

457 albusteve  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:00:36pm

re: #450 Cato the Elder

It's one thing to nod politely while a sixth grader grinds her excruciating way through a parody of some famous poem. Don't expect me to do it for an adult.

And Buzz asked me why the downding, so I told him. Language is something I care about, and I don't pretend it's well-used when it's not.

That's what.

well after that outburst you will probably stand alone in your linguistic indignity...

458 Karagush  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:01:42pm

re: #431 snowcrash

It is quite possible her goodbye post would be considered "flouncing off "and be mocked.

even if it wasnt interpreted that way, she may have been afraid it would look like flouncing off. Also she may not have wanted to see what people would say. Cato's words being a good case in point.
I wouldnt want to see that said about me.

459 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:02:12pm

re: #456 callahan23

Lol, shall I give you a hug?
;-D

I came to despise one of my shrinks precisely because she was just so damned nice. I did not need to hear "You're a bright and intelligent person," or "You have real value to those who love you." What I needed to hear was "Snap out of it! A lot of people have had it a lot worse than you can ever imagine! Suck it up, rub some dirt in it, and walk it off!"

460 Karagush  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:02:59pm

re: #446 Russkilitlover

Umm....hello? Dramatic goodbyes have been known to earn the stick.

and look like neurotic drama queen behaviour to boot.

461 jcm  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:04:05pm

re: #455 pingjockey

That's a fact!
Good afternoon all!

Ping!

Got this big yellow thing in sky, and it's damn hot outside 73°.

How's things on the dry side?

462 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:04:48pm

re: #442 nyc redneck

LOL, look at this b.s.
you forget your sarc tag?
or are you just an insufferable belligerent grouch ?

I don't do sarc tags, you simpleton. If I decide to use sarcasm on you, you'll know it from the gaping holes in your belly, thighs, shins and buttocks. [sarcasm: from late Greek sarkasmos, from Greek sarkazein ‘tear flesh’]

Carry on.

463 Digital Display  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:05:05pm

re: #450 Cato the Elder

It's one thing to nod politely while a sixth grader grinds her excruciating way through a parody of some famous poem. Don't expect me to do it for an adult.

And Buzz asked me why the downding, so I told him. Language is something I care about, and I don't pretend it's well-used when it's not.

That's what.

Cato Cato Cato..What up bro?
Being just a tad critical tonight?
If I hit the Baseball 1 out of 3 times or hit Basketball shots at 50%.. I'm going to the Hall of Fame.. Buzzsaw hits it out of the park 90% of the time.
Don't be so critical...
Are you ok tonight?

464 pingjockey  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:05:10pm

re: #461 jcm
Getting frakkin' warm. Supposed to be 90 by Monday.

465 Occasional Reader  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:05:13pm

re: #450 Cato the Elder

Language is something I care about, and I don't pretend it's well-used when it's not.

You were not required to "pretend" anything, in fact. You could have just moved along.

466 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:05:35pm

re: #425 SixDegrees

I'm somewhat interested to see what the reaction to this is. His last effort was a disaster at the box office, and was hammered by critics who took him to task over both the distorted content and Moore's penchant for claiming "it's not a documentary, it's comedy" when confronted by his gross manipulations of fact. Even his normally supportive friends in the press were holding their noses and proclaiming it's stench.

The bloom may be off the rose. His own sense of self-importance washes over everything he touches now, and it just isn't funny to anyone.

I think that's called flop-sweat.

467 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:06:05pm

re: #457 albusteve

well after that outburst you will probably stand alone in your linguistic indignity...

I shall try to contain my anguish.

468 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:07:29pm

re: #465 Occasional Reader

You were not required to "pretend" anything, in fact. You could have just moved along.

I gave a downding. The recipient asked me why. I replied.

End of story.

469 Salamantis  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:08:11pm

re: #388 Occasional Reader

Your counter-argument supposes that a "polytheistic" religion by definition posits multiple gods who are equals. And that is not the case. For instance, the ancient Greek "polytheistic" pantheon quite clearly had Zeus as il capo de tutti capi.

The concept of a pantheon of gods subject to a boss god is known as henotheism. It's a midpoint on the evolution from polytheism, where all gods are equal, to monotheism, where the boss god has absorbed all the other gods inside itself.

470 SixDegrees  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:08:38pm

re: #466 Guanxi88

I think that's called flop-sweat.

Eeewww. Not a nice image to have in my head, especially when it's Moore doing the sweating and flopping.

I have to go stare at my wife's ass for a while now.

471 Digital Display  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:08:50pm

re: #464 pingjockey

Getting frakkin' warm. Supposed to be 90 by Monday.

Opening up the swimming pool this weekend...
Now for the next 4 months you guys have to listen to me at 5am every sat. morning what a nice swim I had..Sorry about your luck!
*wink*

472 JacksonTn  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:09:08pm

re: #469 Salamantis

The concept of a pantheon of gods subject to a boss god is known as henotheism. It's a midpoint on the evolution from polytheism, where all gods are equal, to monotheism, where the boss god has absorbed all the other gods inside itself.

Sal ... who is the Strawboss God? ...

473 Sharmuta  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:09:14pm

The people I feel the most sorry for are the friends who didn't deserve an explanation- even privately. I honestly thought folks like realwest and pre-Boomer Marine Brat would had earned that. Very disrespectful to people who loved her, imo. I don't care if it bothers her to see it- it's the truth. She should feel terrible about how she's treated people here who would move heaven and earth to help her.

474 albusteve  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:09:26pm

re: #467 Cato the Elder

I shall try to contain my anguish.

too late...there is no reason to be so unfriendly and rude...your zipper is undone amigo...you look foolish

475 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:09:34pm

re: #463 HoosierHoops

Cato Cato Cato..What up bro?
Being just a tad critical tonight?
If I hit the Baseball 1 out of 3 times or hit Basketball shots at 50%.. I'm going to the Hall of Fame.. Buzzsaw hits it out of the park 90% of the time.
Don't be so critical...
Are you ok tonight?

I'm just fine, and thanks for asking.

Buzz asked me why I downdinged. I answered. He seems fine with it. It's others who are offended.

And being critical is my goddam job.

476 Sharmuta  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:09:35pm

That's my final word on the subject.

477 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:09:48pm

re: #472 JacksonTn

Strawboss God? ...

Another fine name for a Punk band.

478 pingjockey  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:10:17pm

re: #471 HoosierHoops
Ours opened Saturday. The maniacs(3 boys) have been in it, not me!

479 pink freud  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:10:44pm

re: #450 Cato the Elder

re: #462 Cato the Elder

re: #467 Cato the Elder

re: #468 Cato the Elder

Fuck you, Cato. What a contemptible, pitiable little man you are.

480 Salamantis  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:10:47pm

re: #393 Occasional Reader

But then your argument just turns into... well, begging the question (correctly used, for once!). "Christianity isn't polytheistic because Christians don't define it that way."

The Trinity is kinda like Triplemint Gum:

Three Gods
Three Gods
Three Gods in One!

481 callahan23  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:11:41pm

re: #459 Guanxi88

I came to despise one of my shrinks precisely because she was just so damned nice. I did not need to hear "You're a bright and intelligent person," or "You have real value to those who love you." What I needed to hear was "Snap out of it! A lot of people have had it a lot worse than you can ever imagine! Suck it up, rub some dirt in it, and walk it off!"

Just my thinking. I hate to be analyzed. As my mother was 'interested' in that subject and subsequently spoiled a lot of my juvenile life's experiences.
/// My mother certainly had an IQ of 167 /// and told everyone about it

482 albusteve  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:11:56pm

re: #475 Cato the Elder

I'm just fine, and thanks for asking.

Buzz asked me why I downdinged. I answered. He seems fine with it. It's others who are offended.

And being critical is my goddam job.

not here it isn't...you are confused

483 pingjockey  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:12:19pm

BBL

484 J.S.  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:13:00pm

re: #475 Cato the Elder

"goddam" WHAT?! should that not be "goddamn"? WTH's wrong with you?

485 nyc redneck  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:13:10pm

re: #462 Cato the Elder

I don't do sarc tags, you simpleton. If I decide to use sarcasm on you, you'll know it from the gaping holes in your belly, thighs, shins and buttocks. [sarcasm: from late Greek sarkasmos, from Greek sarkazein ‘tear flesh’]

Carry on.

you're weird dude.
i have never seen you miss an opportunity to be an insulting prick.
and of course you don't use sarcasm.
sarcasm shows intelligence and sensitivity.
btw, you might want to get some help w/ your grouch factor,
you elitist dork.

486 jcm  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:14:28pm

re: #480 Salamantis

The Trinity is kinda like Triplemint Gum:

Three Gods
Three Gods
Three Gods in One!

ROFL!

487 Digital Display  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:14:29pm

re: #475 Cato the Elder

I'm just fine, and thanks for asking.

Buzz asked me why I downdinged. I answered. He seems fine with it. It's others who are offended.

And being critical is my goddam job.

I'm not offended Cato..Hope today finds you well..
Buzzsaw kicks ass with his word smithing...
I suck at posting..I really do..I try to do a good job, But I suck...But then again..I don't have a clue who the fuck lewis carrol is....Did he work for AP?
/Don't ding me bro!

488 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:14:30pm

re: #474 albusteve

too late...there is no reason to be so unfriendly and rude...your zipper is undone amigo...you look foolish

re: #479 pink freud

re: #462 Cato the Elder

re: #467 Cato the Elder

re: #468 Cato the Elder

Fuck you, Cato. What a contemptible, pitiable little man you are.

Albusteved, I am not your amigo. And you don't get to tell me what my role is here or anywhere else.

Pink, your good opinion means as much to me as Goddess's.

489 nyc redneck  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:16:08pm

re: #479 pink freud

re: #462 Cato the Elder

re: #467 Cato the Elder

re: #468 Cato the Elder

Fuck you, Cato. What a contemptible, pitiable little man you are.


you're right. he is pitiable.

490 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:16:10pm

So much hostility.

491 SixDegrees  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:16:20pm

re: #480 Salamantis

The Trinity is kinda like Triplemint Gum:

Three Gods
Three Gods
Three Gods in One!

Then there's the whole host of angels, many of whom wound up banished and under Lucifer's dominion. Definitely gods, in any sense of the word, and carrying out their own agendas quite apart from the doings down on earth. Although there's a pretty strict hierarchy in place throughout.

Tangentially, I'm wondering what Walter thinks of all this and how it may - or may not - relate to the Lost season finale, which had echoes of Job's story scattered about in it, in my opinion, along with shoutouts to a whole pile of other religious themes.

492 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:16:33pm

re: #490 unrealizedviewpoint

So much hostility.

Reminds me of Thanksgiving when I was a kid.

493 JacksonTn  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:16:48pm

re: #490 unrealizedviewpoint

So much hostility.

urvp ... Yes, and juice boxes will be withheld ....

494 UncleRancher  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:17:05pm

re: #395 Cato the Elder

What (where) {why} is LGF2?

495 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:17:38pm

re: #485 nyc redneck

you're weird dude.
i have never seen you miss an opportunity to be an insulting prick.
and of course you don't use sarcasm.
sarcasm shows intelligence and sensitivity.
btw, you might want to get some help w/ your grouch factor,
you elitist dork.

Right. "Ripping flesh" is a sensitive thing. Remind the wolf of that when he's sarcing your casm.

As for the rest of you shit-pickers, I fart in your general direction.

496 snowcrash  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:17:54pm

re: #492 Guanxi88

Yep, it just isn't a holiday unless someone cries! lol

497 albusteve  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:18:03pm

re: #488 Cato the Elder

Albusteved, I am not your amigo. And you don't get to tell me what my role is here or anywhere else.

Pink, your good opinion means as much to me as Goddess's.

I lied...and that's the truth

498 JacksonTn  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:18:35pm

re: #495 Cato the Elder

Right. "Ripping flesh" is a sensitive thing. Remind the wolf of that when he's sarcing your casm.

As for the rest of you shit-pickers, I fart in your general direction.

CtE ... I WON!

/sorry just reminded me of someone ... and now done ... not that you care ...

499 UFO TOFU  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:19:49pm

re: #484 J.S.

Or goddamned?

500 albusteve  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:20:25pm

I'm a shit picker!....wooohooo!
Cato your'e bahavior is worse by FAR than those you criticize...it's laughable you don't see it....

501 LGoPs  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:21:45pm

re: #435 Sharmuta

I would have more respect for someone saying, "I'm no longer happy and I'm moving on" than what we got.

I heard she got blocked and banned. Maybe there wasn't a chance to say anything.......

502 J.S.  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:22:58pm

re: #499 UFO TOFU

hmmm...interesting...Let's ask Cato The Elder! Should it be:
1) That's my goddamn job
or
2) That's my goddamned job

?

503 LGoPs  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:23:42pm

re: #445 buzzsawmonkey

I appreciate your response, while disagreeing with some, though not all, of your points.

Said like the gentleman you are.
*doffs hat*

504 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:25:49pm

re: #502 J.S.

hmmm...interesting...Let's ask Cato The Elder! Should it be:
1) That's my goddamn job
or
2) That's my goddamned job

?

Or

3) That's my goddam job.

It's slang. All three spellings are acceptable. I checked.

505 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:25:57pm

re: #496 snowcrash

Yep, it just isn't a holiday unless someone cries! lol

Reminds me of the year two of my uncles (we'll call them "A" and "B" damn near killed each other at Thanksgiving. Seems that the one uncle had been "plowing" in his brother's field, as it were. The wife of Uncle A decided that the Thanksgiving table was the perfect place to escalate a fight with him by suggesting that their infant son shouldn't be named A, Jr., but rather B, Jr.

B's face went pale, and there was a sort of silence for about three seconds; then, A dove across the table at B, and the donnybrook was on. Big rolling mess of elbows, fists, and all the rest of it; real Ultimate Fighting stuff.

As this was going on, their father (my grandfather, by marriage; none of their blood in me, thankfully), was kind enough to direct them to the back door with a few gentle kicks from his boots. Anyway, they spill out into the back, and now Uncle A's got a coal shovel, and Uncle B's got nothing but the look of a man ready to make peace with his Creator.

Their Daddy stands on the porch. "Y'all boys just go ahead and finish up. I'll kill whoever's still standing."

Precious memories of family life.

506 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:28:24pm

re: #500 albusteve

.

507 [deleted]  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:28:51pm
508 Occasional Reader  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:34:29pm

BEHEAD THOSE WHO INSULT BUZZSAWMONKEY'S SCANSION

509 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:36:36pm

re: #494 UncleRancher

What (where) {why} is LGF2?

It's an LGF stalker site full of imbecilic slurs on Charles's manhood, among other intellectual highlights. One of the more beloved long-time Lizards, whose name will never again pass my lips, has apparently gone over to them, taking her apparently insincere "prayer list" for people here and re-instituting it over there for her new friends. Some people here are understandably - miffed? Appalled? Feeling betrayed? You decide.

That's all you'll get from me. Read around, there's plenty where that came from.

510 UFO TOFU  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:37:16pm

re: #505 Guanxi88

Oh man, I'm rolling here!

511 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:38:44pm

re: #510 UFO TOFU

Oh man, I'm rolling here!

It's funny now, with the passage of time, and the many, many miles between me and these maniacs. Quite a clan they were, quite a clan indeed.

Can you imagine, though, I'm sitting right there at the table, not more than maybe 6 feet from them when it starts? And I'm barely old enough to drive at that point.

512 UFO TOFU  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:40:52pm

re: #511 Guanxi88

Disconcerting, to say the least. Was dessert served?

513 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:43:33pm

re: #512 UFO TOFU

Disconcerting, to say the least. Was dessert served?

No, but the show was entertaining. Think of a Faulknerian story line, without the good writing or interesting characters; Southern Gothic meets hillbilly crazy. What were they like? The patriarch of the family was a drunken ex-GI, booted from the service after serving time for atrocities committed in the field, about which he never failed to tell you once he'd gotten enough cheap whisky in him.

7 kids this guy had, and they all lived within a few miles of each other.

514 Cato the Elder  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:46:23pm

re: #513 Guanxi88

No, but the show was entertaining. Think of a Faulknerian story line, without the good writing or interesting characters; Southern Gothic meets hillbilly crazy. What were they like? The patriarch of the family was a drunken ex-GI, booted from the service after serving time for atrocities committed in the field, about which he never failed to tell you once he'd gotten enough cheap whisky in him.

7 kids this guy had, and they all lived within a few miles of each other.

Sounds like an instructive look into human nature. And it gave you material for your memoirs. Never a bad thing.

515 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:47:51pm

re: #514 Cato the Elder

Sounds like an instructive look into human nature. And it gave you material for your memoirs. Never a bad thing.

A terrifying glimpse into the abyss. - Working title for the memoirs, which I've decided I need to start working on, based on your suggestion.

Maybe: "Eh, So-So: A Life" instead.

516 LGoPs  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:50:12pm

re: #508 Occasional Reader

BEHEAD THOSE WHO INSULT BUZZSAWMONKEY'S SCANSION

I eschew scansion.........
/

517 Guanxi88  Thu, May 21, 2009 4:58:12pm

re: #515 Guanxi88

A terrifying glimpse into the abyss. - Working title for the memoirs, which I've decided I need to start working on, based on your suggestion.

Maybe: "Eh, So-So: A Life" instead.

Of course, I'd have to delay publication until my mother dies. She always said to keep this stuff quiet until she was dead, so nobody could blame her for any of it.

518 [deleted]  Thu, May 21, 2009 5:45:05pm
519 Dr. Shalit  Thu, May 21, 2009 6:26:37pm

re: #518 Iron Fist

Iron Fist -

For the record:

1. I post at Lucianne.com, PajamasMedia.com and Babalublog.com under the same "nic" as their systems will accept it.
2. Regarding the Guantanamo Bay Detention Center - For What it is worth - it and its methodology were PERFECTLY LEGAL in 2001. In fact they were a masterstroke as Gitmo is part of CUBA, not the US. The "Constructive Sovereignty" argument was unsuccessful until the 2004 Hamdan case.
3. I might ruffle some feathers here - I would be sorely tempted to hand the Uighers over to China. Let the Chinese deal with the publicity.
4. Perhaps, as most of the detainees were captured in Afghanistan, they could be flown to Bagram and released to the current Afghan government.
Let the Afghans deal with the fallout.
5. Seems to me that we do NOT Capture too many "high value" Jihadis anymore. Perhaps that is because we KILL THEM - Perhaps that is the new
R.O.E. since the 2004/5 Supreme Court Cases. Less messy that way on a legal basis.

That isall.

-S-

520 Dr. Shalit  Thu, May 21, 2009 6:31:32pm

re: #263 Tarkus289

Michael Scheuer is an ass.

Tarkus289 -

Regarding Israel, he is Delusional, why I don't know, he is not a dumb guy.

-S-

521 ihateronpaul  Thu, May 21, 2009 8:10:05pm

" ... following World War II war crime trials were convened. The Japanese were tried and convicted and hung for war crimes committed against American POWs. Among those charges for which they were convicted was waterboarding."

John McCain on Thursday, November 29th, 2007 in a campaign event in St. Petersburg


[Link: www.politifact.com...]

522 Pupdawg  Fri, May 22, 2009 7:17:21am

re: #38 IslandLibertarian

"0" called Guantanamo "a mess that I've inherited"........

projection

Obama is the mess America has 'inherited.'

His speech yesterday was the most atrocious to date, but I fully expect that low point to continue to drop by our President. The more he speaks the more he wreaks, IMHO.


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