Yon: The Kopp-Etchells Effect

WorldAugust 2009 • Views: 3,022

Another photo-filled essay from Afghanistan by Michael Yon, memorializing lost comrades as the fighting heats up: The Kopp-Etchells Effect.

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91 comments

Cato the Elder Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:33:51am

Saw a post somewhere today that read: "Under a different president, the Left was obsessed with America's wars. Now their not even watching."

Cato the Elder Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:35:15am

PIMF: they're

Locker Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:38:06am

re: #1 Cato the Elder

Saw a post somewhere today that read: "Under a different president, the Left was obsessed with America's wars. Now their not even watching."

I don't speak for every left side person but most of the folks I know had no problem with Afghanistan it was Iraq which caused the blow back. Getting out of Iraq was the important point, personally.

If every single troop and resource sent to Iraq (this 2nd time) was instead sent to Afghanistan or in support of finding Bin Laden and his buddies I'd have been waving the flag and screaming for Bush till the cows came home.

Locker Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:40:04am

Stunning pictures btw, takes me back.

bodrules Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:41:16am

Good photos as always from Micahel, hopefully people will chip a few £ or $ to help support his work.

Vicious Babushka Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:41:25am

Scam ads are showing up on the sidebar.

itellu3times Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:41:44am

The pictures are unbelievable.

His stories, too often depress me.

A base that lives under perpetual blockade and assault?

Need some new strategy, and fast.

Kragar Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:42:30am

re: #1 Cato the Elder

Saw a post somewhere today that read: "Under a different president, the Left was obsessed with America's wars. Now their not even watching."

Well, having a Dem in office makes all the difference. Look at how much more accurate our strikes have been. When was the last time we hit a wedding reception or family reunion?

Killgore Trout Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:43:15am

re: #6 Alouette

I saw an ad for a perpetual motion electric generator the other day.

sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:43:17am

re: #3 Locker

I don't speak for every left side person but most of the folks I know had no problem with Afghanistan it was Iraq which caused the blow back. Getting out of Iraq was the important point, personally.

If every single troop and resource sent to Iraq (this 2nd time) was instead sent to Afghanistan or in support of finding Bin Laden and his buddies I'd have been waving the flag and screaming for Bush till the cows came home.

At the same time, ignoring the mass graves that would have grown expotentially in Iraq

sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:43:41am

re: #9 Killgore Trout

I saw an ad for a perpetual motion electric generator the other day.

Hampster Power!

Dianna Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:45:29am

re: #6 Alouette

Scam ads are showing up on the sidebar.

Which ones?

[deleted] Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:48:26am

Vicious Babushka Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:48:44am

re: #12 Dianna

Which ones?

"Unique tricks to burn stubborn stomach fat!"

"7 Surprising fat-burning foods!"

[deleted] Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:49:25am

Locker Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:49:56am

re: #10 sattv4u2

At the same time, ignoring the mass graves that would have grown expotentially in Iraq

Yea gotta love those mass graves. I guess they only happen in Iraq in 1988.

opnion Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:50:16am

re: #10 sattv4u2

At the same time, ignoring the mass graves that would have grown expotentially in Iraq

Just wonder if the Left would have viewed Iraq as a "Good" war if Obama initiated it.
I was surprised when Bush went to Iraq, but he did not lie about his motives.
Once the debate was over & we had troops there it was important for geopolitical reasons that we succeed. Our troops in Iraq deserved wide support.

Locker Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:50:50am

re: #13 buzzsawmonkey

The ability of so many "left side persons" to ignore not only that there were reasons to go into Iraq over and above the WMD that were hidden because Bush wasted time trying placate our domestic left, but also that an awful lot of "Bin Laden's buddies" were, in fact, killed in Iraq, never ceases to amaze me.

THe ability of so many "right side persons" to ignore the fact that "bin laden's buddies" showed up in Iraq to fight us AFTER we were already there never ceases to amaze me.

CommonCents Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:51:39am

Corporal Kopp had volunteered as an organ donor and his heart was transplanted. Two days after most people would have died, Benjamin Kopp’s heart was transplanted into Judy Meikle. According to the Washington Post, Meikle said, "How can you have a better heart?" said a grateful Judy Meikle, 57, of Winnetka, Ill., who is still recovering from the surgery. "I have the heart of a 21-year-old Army Ranger war hero beating in me."

Getting me all misty eyed. That takes alot.

[deleted] Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:51:54am

StillAMarine Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:52:14am

re: #18 Locker

Better that we fought them in Iraq rather than in New York or LA.

opnion Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:52:34am

re: #18 Locker

THe ability of so many "right side persons" to ignore the fact that "bin laden's buddies" showed up in Iraq to fight us AFTER we were already there never ceases to amaze me.

Where would you rather have us fight them? The last time Bin Ladens pals visited New York, things didn't go too well.

sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:53:15am

re: #16 Locker

Yea gotta love those mass graves. I guess they only happen in Iraq in 1988.

Yup,, Saddam, his sons and his cronies TOTALLY lost their blood lust post 1988. No killings after that, nope, non at all

When 'we" got there, our soldiers saw nothing but gumdrop sidewalks and lemonaid ponds!

Locker Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:53:45am

re: #21 StillAMarine

Better that we fought them in Iraq rather than in New York or LA.

re: #22 opnion

Where would you rather have us fight them? The last time Bin Ladens pals visited New York, things didn't go too well.

In Afghanistan, where they were and where we already were. Why split the front? It's a bad military tactic.

SasquatchOnSteroids Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:54:51am

re: #24 Locker

In Afghanistan, where they were and where we already were. Why split the front? It's a bad military tactic.

You're the President.
Protect me.

What would you do ?

[deleted] Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:55:18am

Silvergirl Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:55:27am

re: #15 buzzsawmonkey

The easiest way to burn stubborn stomach fat is lipo it out and throw it on the grill.

I'm ill.

Locker Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:55:37am

re: #25 SasquatchOnSteroids

You're the President.
Protect me.

What would you do ?

Buy you a pacifier and tell you any sense of protection is an illusion.

Kenneth Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:55:47am

re: #3 Locker

I know plenty of lefties who were incensed at the US (and my country Canada) "invading" Afghanistan in November 2001. They saw 9-11 as a well deserved comeuppance for America. They are appalled that Obama has continued that war.

Lee Coller Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:55:57am

re: #14 Alouette

"Unique tricks to burn stubborn stomach fat!"

"7 Surprising fat-burning foods!"

Also "How to make a solar panel."

sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:56:31am

re: #18 Locker

THe ability of so many "right side persons" to ignore the fact that "bin laden's buddies" showed up in Iraq to fight us AFTER we were already there never ceases to amaze me.

HOMEWORK
Abu Nidal
Abu Musab Zarqawi
Salman Pak

research and report to the class!

Walter L. Newton Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:57:27am

re: #1 Cato the Elder

Saw a post somewhere today that read: "Under a different president, the Left was obsessed with America's wars. Now their not even watching."

Obama has not removed the troops from Iraq, in fact he is following BUSH'S timeline. Obama has put MORE troops into Afghanistan. Gitmo is still open. For a matter of fact, not much has really changed on the military front and the "war on terrorism" except a few name changes and less coverage by the MSM.

Can anyone spell hypocrisy?

opnion Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:58:30am

re: #24 Locker

In Afghanistan, where they were and where we already were. Why split the front? It's a bad military tactic.

There was a debate about it with Demorats agreeing to the invasion of Iraq.
When it became politcally viable, all of the sniping & undercutting our troops began.
Whether Al Quaeda was there before we got there or came after to me is not the issue. They were there & our troops subdued them & other terrorists.

[deleted] Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:58:32am

[deleted] Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:58:44am

Charpete67 Mon, Aug 17, 2009 9:58:55am

re: #32 Walter L. Newton

Obama has not removed the troops from Iraq, in fact he is following BUSH'S timeline. Obama has put MORE troops into Afghanistan. Gitmo is still open. For a matter of fact, not much has really changed on the military front and the "war on terrorism" except a few name changes and less coverage by the MSM.

Can anyone spell hypocrisy?

I'd like to know where all the anti-war protesters are.

StillAMarine Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:00:35am

If we had been totally committed in Afghanistan, how long would it have taken for Saddam Insane to exploit that situation by embarking in further adventures such as occupying Kuwait?
Trust me, I am not entirely convinced that going into Iraq was a wise choice, but we did, and we need to finish the job. And it is a fact that fighting in Afghanistan with Saddam at our backs would have been much more difficult.

Walter L. Newton Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:00:57am

re: #36 Charpete67

I'd like to know where all the anti-war protesters are.

Saving a tree.

opnion Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:01:03am

Does nayone remember Leftist criticism of Afghanistan prior to the Iraq invasion? I do, & Afghanistan became the 'Good" war to bash Bush.

Kenneth Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:01:04am

re: #16 Locker

One of the things the US only discovered post-invasion, was that Saddam had used chemical weapons against the Shia rebels in 1991, during his crackdown on the Shia uprising. The Iraqi Revolutionary Guards used mustard and nerve gas in Najaf and Al-Nassaria. Fortunately, the shells did not work very well, and only a few people were killed.

bodrules Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:01:08am

If you read his previous dispatch, you'll see a photograph of Lance Bombardier Hatton, he was killed last week in an IED blast with two of his comrades from that base, Michael is down in the weeds with lads on this tour.

Kinda puts everything we squabble over into perspective.

[deleted] Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:01:32am

SasquatchOnSteroids Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:01:34am

re: #28 Locker

Buy you a pacifier and tell you any sense of protection is an illusion.

yeesh. Brilliant...

CommonCents Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:02:10am

re: #18 Locker

THe ability of so many "right side persons" to ignore the fact that "bin laden's buddies" showed up in Iraq to fight us AFTER we were already there never ceases to amaze me.

Not all of them showed up AFTER. Some were there before us. Saddam's Fedayeen jihadis, who walked, talked, and blew themselves up like Al-Qaeda, did they make an end around our military to get between us and Baghdad? When we were moving faster than any military in history? Doubt it.

Walter L. Newton Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:02:19am

re: #42 buzzsawmonkey

Just got back from the P.O.

opnion Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:03:00am

re: #42 buzzsawmonkey

Where have the protesters gone
Long time passing?
Where have the protesters gone
Long time ago?
Where have the protesters gone?
Joined the census, every one
When will we ever learn? When will we ever learn?

Protest? protest what? Just visits to govenment Kool Aid stands.

Locker Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:03:40am

re: #29 Kenneth

I know plenty of lefties who were incensed at the US (and my country Canada) "invading" Afghanistan in November 2001. They saw 9-11 as a well deserved comeuppance for America. They are appalled that Obama has continued that war.

I've heard the bolded accusation mentioned frequently with regard to the left and 9/11. Personally I found this hurled at me whenever I made any effort to try to understand the real reason for the attacks besides "we hate you because you are free".

It seems like even asking the question would get you labeled as a terrorist supporting so and so. The same thing happened with regard to the Iraq war. I've been yelled at for "not supporting the troops" because I was and am against this 2nd Iraq war.

I'm a veteran. I have friends serving. I send them letters, care packages and talk when they can call. I want them all safe and home with their families. Being against the war is not being against the troops and asking questions about the actual causes behind an attack is not saying we deserved to be hit.

Now, to speak to the flip side. If I ever heard a person saying the US or any other country deserves to have civilians attacked and/or killed, to them I respond "go fuck yourself jack".

Charpete67 Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:03:55am

re: #38 Walter L. Newton

Saving a tree.

will we see protesters wearing shirts and waving banners equating Obama to Hitler?...obviously not, but I wonder if there is a conflict brewing or if they will just join ACORN and focus on the census...

[deleted] Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:03:59am

Locker Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:04:37am

re: #31 sattv4u2

HOMEWORK
Abu Nidal
Abu Musab Zarqawi
Salman Pak

research and report to the class!

Homework. Germany in World War II fighting a duel front war. Research and report back to the class.

itellu3times Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:05:12am

re: #30 Lee Coller

Also "How to make a solar panel."

click here to learn how to make a hormone.
/don't pay her

debutaunt Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:06:36am

re: #36 Charpete67

I'd like to know where all the anti-war protesters are.

Really! How did they shut up code pink?

experiencedtraveller Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:07:24am

re: #24 Locker

In Afghanistan, where they were and where we already were. Why split the front? It's a bad military tactic.

Eh? Did we 'split the front' in WWII when we fought in Europe and the Pacific?

bodrules Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:07:28am

Germany in World War II fighting a duel front war. Research and report back to the class

However the US and UK managed it okay on multiple fronts, just to chuck in the exception that proves the rule like.

:-)

sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:08:19am

re: #50 Locker

Homework. Germany in World War II fighting a duel front war. Research and report back to the class.

Lets see..

The USA was fighting the Germans in Europe
The USA was fighting the Japanese in the Pacific

I'd call THAT 2 fronts!

RESULTS

WIN/ WIN

SATTV4U2 Grade "A"

No,, , about YOUR report!

LOCKER Grade "Incomplete"

Thanks for playing!

CommonCents Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:09:11am

re: #53 experiencedtraveller

re: #54 bodrules

Oh there you go. Pointing out the obvious.
/

Kenneth Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:10:00am

re: #24 Locker

In Afghanistan, where they were and where we already were. Why split the front? It's a bad military tactic.

Really? You're an expert on military strategy? If so, you might know the difference between tactic and strategy.

So where did the US first land troops following Pearl Harbor?

Morocco.

Splitting our forces forced Al Qaeda to split their forces too.

Charpete67 Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:10:09am

re: #55 sattv4u2

Lets see..

The USA was fighting the Germans in Europe
The USA was fighting the Japanese in the Pacific

I'd call THAT 2 fronts!

RESULTS

WIN/ WIN

SATTV4U2 Grade "A"

No,, , about YOUR report!

LOCKER Grade "Incomplete"

Thanks for playing!

I'm glad we didn't think it was too hard to fight the Nazi's...

sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:10:20am

re: #50 Locker

re: #55 sattv4u2

Lets see..

The USA was fighting the Germans in Europe
The USA was fighting the Japanese in the Pacific

I'd call THAT 2 fronts!

RESULTS

WIN/ WIN

SATTV4U2 Grade "A"

No,, , about YOUR report!

LOCKER Grade "Incomplete"

Thanks for playing!

AND again, Locker pulls out the tried and true liberal debate tactic, Instead of answering the question posed, ASK a question instead

And what do we have as parting gifts for our losing contestant today, Johnny!

callahan23 Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:12:45am

The Kopp-Etchells Effect.

How very fitting a name for such a beautiful and dangerous phenomenon taken from such brave and honorable men.
May they and their fallen comrades be remembered.

Thank you Michael Yon.

Oh no...Sand People! Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:13:13am

My weak prayers are for Michael Yon's safety and our troops and allies.

wahabicorridor Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:13:22am

re: #24 Locker

Why split the front? It's a bad military tactic.

A front? In Afghanistan?

Could you hold on just a minute, I gotta go get the popcorn...

Kenneth Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:13:35am

re: #50 Locker

Actually, Germany was forced to fight on two fronts when the US landed troops in North Africa. You see, it's a strategy that cuts both ways. The important part is to force the enemy to fight in a place of your choosing, and to attack him first where he is weakest, not where he is strongest.

sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:15:06am

re: #63 Kenneth

Actually, Germany was forced to fight on two fronts when the US landed troops in North Africa. You see, it's a strategy that cuts both ways. The important part is to force the enemy to fight in a place of your choosing, and to attack him first where he is weakest, not where he is strongest.

but, But, BUT thats not the way it worked on the Stratego Games!

///

Kenneth Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:17:07am

re: #18 Locker

THe ability of so many "right side persons" to ignore the fact that "bin laden's buddies" showed up in Iraq to fight us AFTER we were already there never ceases to amaze me.

Wrong. In fact, US troops encountered some 4000 foreign fighters in Iraq during the initial invasion. They were dispersed throughout the country and had trained with & were fighting along side the Saddam Fedayeen. These foreign fighters were in the country BEFORE the US troops arrived.

sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:18:29am

re: #65 Kenneth

He's moved upstairs

The nosebleeds he was being inflicted here were too much!

StillAMarine Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:18:37am

re: #34 buzzsawmonkey

..., it was much easier hunting them on the flat plains of Iraq than chivvying them through the rugged terrain of Afghanistan.

Hear, hear!

Had the Left even an ounce of sense, or national loyalty, it would have also understood that, having gone in, we would have been out much sooner had they not bent every effort to impede the battle once joined. Furthermore, had the Left not sabotaged the Iraq initiative as much as possible, the US would now have an Iran on the cusp of nuclear capability surrounded by US troops firmly ensconced, and capable of backing a credible ultimatum to the Iranian regime. Instead, we are slinking out of Iraq, struggling in Afghanistan, and flopping around helplessly where Iran is concerned.

The Left sabotaged us in Nam and they tried and almost succeeded in doing so in the Middle East. To this day I do not understand why traitors like Jane Fonda are not peering out from inside a set of bars, rather than using the capitalist system they so shrilly decry to become very rich. Jane Fonda -- top candidate for Hypocrite of the Millennium.

Cato the Elder Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:19:25am

War, plague, economic ruin: the solution to Global Warming.

Charpete67 Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:20:05am

re: #68 Cato the Elder

War, plague, economic ruin: the solution to Global Warming.

and...fewer people to insure...//

CommonCents Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:20:20am

re: #65 Kenneth

Wrong. In fact, US troops encountered some 4000 foreign fighters in Iraq during the initial invasion. They were dispersed throughout the country and had trained with & were fighting along side the Saddam Fedayeen. These foreign fighters were in the country BEFORE the US troops arrived.

Are you sure they weren't Arabian Airborne that dropped in after we invaded? You know from Saddam's "ELITE" Air Force.

Kenneth Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:21:14am

re: #24 Locker

In Afghanistan, where they were and where we already were. Why split the front? It's a bad military tactic.

Actually, by January 2002, Al Qaeda was no longer in Afghanistan. They had moved to Pakistan and Iran. Are you saying the US should have invaded those two countries then? I would really, really enjoy reading a self-confessed lefty like you arguing for that.

sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:22:05am

re: #71 Kenneth

again ,,, He's moved upstairs

Kenneth Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:23:44am

re: #66 sattv4u2

When a moonbat starts off by offering military advice, while confusing the difference between tactic & strategy, you know it's not going to end well for him. Poor thing.

wahabicorridor Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:25:24am

re: #73 Kenneth

When a moonbat starts off by offering military advice, while confusing the difference between tactic & strategy, you know it's not going to end well for him. Poor thing.

*sigh*

I suspect it didn't begin well either...

[giggles]

sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:25:32am

re: #73 Kenneth

When a moonbat starts off by offering military advice, while confusing the difference between tactic & strategy, you know it's not going to end well for him. Poor thing.

I loved how it started by claiming there was NO terrorists in Iraq prior to the coalition going in. I gave him 3 specific things to google (2 names and a place)

In typical liberal form, he answered me with a QUESTION (the one about the 2 fronts) for which he was roundly ridiculed

sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:25:51am

re: #74 wahabicorridor

see #75

CommonCents Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:30:47am

re: #75 sattv4u2

The Salman Pak reference has some possible holes. 2005 stories presented the case that the airline fuselage was used to train anti-hijacking commandos. My opinion is that it trained at least 19 of them. Opinions vary.

Athos Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:32:53am

re: #50 Locker

Homework. Germany in World War II fighting a duel front war. Research and report back to the class.

Homework - US in World War II fighting a two-ocean war...think of it as dual fronts each with a 2500-3500 mi logistical tail...

sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:33:35am

re: #77 CommonCents

The Salman Pak reference has some possible holes. 2005 stories presented the case that the airline fuselage was used to train anti-hijacking commandos. My opinion is that it trained at least 19 of them. Opinions vary.

I referenced Salman Pak for a few reasons
terror training
also been a key center of Iraq’s biological and chemical weapon programs. In 1989 and 1990, the laboratories in the complex researched anthrax, botulinum, clostridium, perfringens, mycotoxins, aflatoxins, and ricin

Kenneth Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:34:12am

re: #75 sattv4u2

I'm getting very tired of his MO. He trots out the same old tired lefty talking points, which are then quickly debunked and shoved up his wazoo, by which time he runs away. Repeat on the next thread.

Your list of names was very good, no doubt he will studiously ignore them.

sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:36:01am

re: #80 Kenneth

I'm getting very tired of his MO. He trots out the same old tired lefty talking points, which are then quickly debunked and shoved up his wazoo, by which time he runs away. Repeat on the next thread.

Your list of names was very good, no doubt he will studiously ignore them.

I've been beating him up now for several days in a row. I almost ,,,ALMOST ,, feel badly about it
The only thing is, I'm old, and chasing his moving goalposts is tiring!

filetandrelease Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:36:27am

Kopp-Etchells effect, damn near brought a tear to my eye.

sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:36:54am

re: #80 Kenneth

Your list of names was very good, no doubt he will studiously ignore them

Thanks,, and those were just off the top of my head!

Athos Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:39:51am

re: #79 sattv4u2

I referenced Salman Pak for a few reasons
terror training
also been a key center of Iraq’s biological and chemical weapon programs. In 1989 and 1990, the laboratories in the complex researched anthrax, botulinum, clostridium, perfringens, mycotoxins, aflatoxins, and ricin

The issue with these facts are that they are masked because the focus on all of the dual use / dual purpose materials is on their legitimate civilian uses...even though they were done on military bases, stored in military weapons facilities, under military guard.

Bottom line, a bi-partisan Repub / Dem supermajority agreed for the use of force against Saddam for 23 specific reasons on 10/10/2002. When politically expedient, and in an effort to weaken Dubya for the 2004 election, they decided their quest for power took precedence.

jpkoch Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:43:26am

There were some problems from a strategic perspective concerning the 2003 Iraq invasion. The obvious problem was that of manpower. In 1991, the US led a coalition of 500,000 servicemen. Back in 1991 we still had VII Corp and its 4 heavy divisions. Secondly, and this one gets little air-time - the failure of Colin Powell to secure transit rights for the 4ID across Turkey. The 4ID probably could have gotten into Baghdad much earlier than V Corps. Also V Corps had a very narrow approach march to Nasariah. A huge traffic jam ensued when elements of the 3ID support troops were ambushed. The Marines lost a day or so waiting for the roads to clear.

The attack was certainly not like the blitzkrieg operations the Army said it would be. As a consequence the RG was able to abandon its positions and melt into the civilian populace before it could be brought to battle. These things happen in war. We no longer have a Cold War military, and CENTCOM had to do with what it had on hand.

If the Truth be known, we probably never had the forces to fight in Afghanistan either. The 2001 operation was mainly fought with our spec ops and the Northern Alliance. When we did send large scale formations there problems began immediately for us. The DOD really is cut to the bone - it has been for over a decade. These kind of operations were suppose to be a thing of the past. I don't know if our budget can allow for another $300 billion/year increase..

Kenneth Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:43:52am

re: #83 sattv4u2

Now here's a funny thing. Sombody with the nic "blueherron" has been going along updinging everyone of Locker's idiotic comments. I searched the userlist and found this informative post by "blueherron":

Anyway, I don't have a job yet. But I'm sure I'm not lucky enough to never work again. Meanwhile between reading LGF and volunteering for Acorn/, I'm keeping myself busy.

Ooookayyy.

sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:47:10am

re: #86 Kenneth

Now here's a funny thing. Sombody with the nic "blueherron" has been going along updinging everyone of Locker's idiotic comments. I searched the userlist and found this informative post by "blueherron":

Ooookayyy.

H
O
L
Y

S
H
I
T

Athos Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:48:32am

re: #86 Kenneth

Why doesn't that surprise me?

Rancher Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:49:02am

re: #3 Locker

If every single troop and resource sent to Iraq (this 2nd time) was instead sent to Afghanistan or in support of finding Bin Laden and his buddies I'd have been waving the flag and screaming for Bush till the cows came home.

Iraq was a war we could, and did, win. It has established a Democracy in the region as well as helped hem in Iran, another war we are fighting but that war no one will officially recognize. The Afghan war will have no quick victory no matter how many resources we throw into it. Until the dynamics in Pakistan and the drug war change we will have to commit to Afghanistan continuously. Osama is symbolic and irrelevant.

Athos Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:57:19am

re: #89 Rancher

Osama is symbolic and irrelevant.

True - but unfortunately there are too many people who will believe that once he is confirmed dead or confirmed captured, the 'war' will be over. Oh wait, The One has already declared the war over and the left is moving on to domestic issues...like sending more water into the Sacramento Delta and eliminating the farming industry in the Central Valley of CA.

sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 17, 2009 10:59:34am

re: #90 Athos

True - but unfortunately there are too many people who will believe that once he is confirmed dead or confirmed captured, the 'war' will be over. Oh wait, The One has already declared the war over and the left is moving on to domestic issues...like sending more water into the Sacramento Delta and eliminating the farming industry in the Central Valley of CA.

hmmm,,
save the red spotted, three toed diamond eared snail darter, or middle Americans farms and livelihood!

hmmm,,, well,,, there ARE plenty of people, ya know!

Spy Mode Auto

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Yon: The Kopp-Etchells Effect

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