Big Day at the UN

World • Views: 2,452

In his speech to the United Nations this morning, President Obama reiterated his call for Israel to cease building settlements, and for the Palestinians to end incitement against Israel.

I will also continue to seek a just and lasting peace between Israel, Palestine, and the Arab world. Yesterday, I had a constructive meeting with Prime Minister Netanyahu and President Abbas. We have made some progress. Palestinians have strengthened their efforts on security. Israelis have facilitated greater freedom of movement for the Palestinians. As a result of these efforts by both sides, the economy in the West Bank has begun to grow. But more progress is needed. We continue to call on Palestinians to end incitement against Israel, and we continue to emphasize that America does not accept the legitimacy of continued Israeli settlements.

The time has come to re-launch negotiations – without preconditions – that address the permanent-status issues: security for Israelis and Palestinians; borders, refugees and Jerusalem. The goal is clear: two states living side by side in peace and security – a Jewish State of Israel, with true security for all Israelis; and a viable, independent Palestinian state with contiguous territory that ends the occupation that began in 1967, and realizes the potential of the Palestinian people. As we pursue this goal, we will also pursue peace between Israel and Lebanon, Israel and Syria, and a broader peace between Israel and its many neighbors. In pursuit of that goal, we will develop regional initiatives with multilateral participation, alongside bilateral negotiations.

I am not naïve. I know this will be difficult. But all of us must decide whether we are serious about peace, or whether we only lend it lip-service. To break the old patterns – to break the cycle of insecurity and despair – all of us must say publicly what we would acknowledge in private. The United States does Israel no favors when we fail to couple an unwavering commitment to its security with an insistence that Israel respect the legitimate claims and rights of the Palestinians. And nations within this body do the Palestinians no favors when they choose vitriolic attacks over a constructive willingness to recognize Israel’s legitimacy, and its right to exist in peace and security.

And again, there’s a serious problem that no one wants to examine: the continued rejection of Israel’s right to exist, not just from Palestinians, but from the entire Arab world. For Obama to paint this as a simple matter of moral equivalence, with both sides equally to blame and both sides equally interested in finding a resolution, is simply wrong. Unfortunately, this state of denial has dominated US policy for many years, and shows no sign of ending any time soon.

Libyan strangeman Muammar Gadafi is currently ranting away incoherently, but Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is scheduled to speak a bit later. CNN is broadcasting the speeches live; here’s a thread to discuss.

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331 comments
1 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:55:15am

I repeat...

What does it mean when Ralph Nader says this about you?...

"Weak. Waffling, wavering, ambiguous and overwhelmingly concessionary. "
2 Ojoe  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:56:20am

Good luck...

3 arielle  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:56:34am

Just imagine if President Obama didn't make the moral equivalence. The whole world would go banana crazy!!

4 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:56:39am

Why do I have this image of Ferris Bueller?

5 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:56:45am
I am not naïve.

If you say so...

6 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:57:12am

And if anyone thinks Charles is anti-Semitic after what he just wrote, I've got a bridge not far from the UN building I'd like to sell you.

7 arielle  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:57:46am

Charles is the complete and utter opposite of an anti-semite.

8 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:59:07am

re: #4 MandyManners

Why do I have this image of Ferris Bueller?

Bueller? Did you memorize your Disco Institute talking points?

9 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:59:13am

Can Obama's poll numbers in Israel get any lower?

10 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:59:33am

Obama is also talking about a world without nuclear weapons.
If he believes that is possible, that one or more states won't hide some for use later, I think he might buy the bridge Dark_Falcon's offering in #6

11 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:59:38am
The time has come to re-launch negotiations – without preconditions – that address the permanent-status issues: security for Israelis and Palestinians; borders, refugees and Jerusalem.

This is just wrong- there absolutely should be a pre-condition- an acknowledgement of Israel's right to exist comes to mind.

12 Baier  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:59:55am

Why no insist that Gaza and the West bank be incorporated into the countries they belong to, Egypt and Jordan? Problem solved.

13 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:00:13am

"Yesterday, I had a constructive meeting with Prime Minister Netanyahu and President Abbas. We have made some progress."

Unless I am not listening to the radio properly, I heard that there was NO progress, on either side. What gives?

14 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:00:30am

re: #7 arielle

Charles is the complete and utter opposite of an anti-semite.

I know. But some idiots are trying to defame him. #6 was my response to their defamation.

15 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:00:49am

6 Million Israelis.
500 Million Arabs.

14 Million Jews
1.5 Billion Muslims.

/look at me! look at me!

-Truly oppressed people of the world.

16 JamesTKirk  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:01:05am

re: #9 NJDhockeyfan

Can Obama's poll numbers in Israel get any lower?

They don't vote in US elections. How are his numbers holding with American Jews?

17 Baier  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:01:24am

re: #13 Walter L. Newton

"Yesterday, I had a constructive meeting with Prime Minister Netanyahu and President Abbas. We have made some progress."

Unless I am not listening to the radio properly, I heard that there was NO progress, on either side. What gives?

I heard there was progress. because Israel put her foot down.

18 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:01:48am

re: #12 Baier

Why no insist that Gaza and the West bank be incorporated into the countries they belong to, Egypt and Jordan? Problem solved.

Well, those areas were conquered by Egypt and Jordan in 1948. So Israel's recapture of them should be just as valid, and the current winner gets to keep them.

19 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:02:21am

re: #17 Baier

I heard there was progress. because Israel put her foot down.

Well, that was spun on the MSM as no progress.

20 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:02:36am

re: #12 Baier

Why no insist that Gaza and the West bank be incorporated into the countries they belong to, Egypt and Jordan? Problem solved.

Neither the Jordanians nor the Egyptians want them. Can you blame them?

Besides, the Jordyptians are a convenient football for the Muslim nations.

21 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:02:49am

We exist.

22 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:03:06am

re: #12 Baier

Because Egypt and Jordan don't want them back due to their radical islamic views as well as the fact that they make useful pawns in attacking Israel.

23 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:03:10am

re: #14 Dark_Falcon

I know. But some idiots are trying to defame him. #6 was my response to their defamation.

WTF? Who? Where?

24 Pianobuff  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:03:21am

This is nothing that can't be resolved over a beer on the White House lawn.

25 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:03:25am

re: #13 Walter L. Newton

"Yesterday, I had a constructive meeting with Prime Minister Netanyahu and President Abbas. We have made some progress."

Unless I am not listening to the radio properly, I heard that there was NO progress, on either side. What gives?

There was an announcement yesterday that negotiations would be scheduled, without preconditions.
Today, Abbas said that Israel had to stop all "settlement" activity.
Sounds like Abbas is lying. Think Obama will call him on it?

26 John Neverbend  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:03:41am

If Gaddafi is ranting incoherently, I can't wait until Haman begins his speech.

One of these days, he's going to begin with, "There is a certain people scattered abroad and dispersed among the people..."

27 spare o'lake  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:03:49am
The goal is clear: two states living side by side in peace and security – a Jewish State of Israel, with true security for all Israelis

Clear to whom?
Certainly not to the Palestinians.

28 Baier  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:04:04am

re: #18 Kosh's Shadow

Well, those areas were conquered by Egypt and Jordan in 1948. So Israel's recapture of them should be just as valid, and the current winner gets to keep them.

Keeping the land will not solve the problem. Israel will have to give up something, sorry to say, but it's being asked to give up far to much right now - mainly a guarantee of security.

29 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:05:27am

re: #28 Baier

Keeping the land will not solve the problem. Israel will have to give up something, sorry to say, but it's being asked to give up far to much right now - mainly a guarantee of security.

We should trade the Arab Israeli "Triangle" for our "settlements" in Judah and Samaria.

It's been floated at previous negotiations.

30 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:05:28am

re: #23 MandyManners

WTF? Who? Where?

lgf2 has been saying that Charles is going to come out against Israel. I guess because they found he doesn't support their extreme views, that he's turning into a leftist or something.

31 JamesTKirk  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:05:33am

re: #28 Baier

Keeping the land will not solve the problem. Israel will have to give up something, sorry to say, but it's being asked to give up far to much right now - mainly a guarantee of security.

Israel has already given up something, every time we've gone through this, and never gotten anything in return.

32 brennant  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:05:50am

Did he just say we should let Noriega out of prison? Holy smokes.

33 leafsfan82  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:06:08am

Canada plans to walk out during Ahmadinejad's speech

Your text to link...

34 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:06:17am

re: #23 MandyManners

WTF? Who? Where?

Hot Air was doing it, I believe. And it was going on big time over at Rodan's Place last night.

35 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:06:23am

Is it just me, or does daffgy look like a claymation character?

36 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:06:26am

re: #31 JamesTKirk

Israel has already given up something, every time we've gone through this, and never gotten anything in return.

Yes. We can see how well "land for peace" worked out in Gaza.

37 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:06:53am

re: #30 Kosh's Shadow

lgf2 has been saying that Charles is going to come out against Israel. I guess because they found he doesn't support their extreme views, that he's turning into a leftist or something.

Oh, for fuck's sake. Nuttier than my Kashi bar.

38 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:07:15am
39 J.S.  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:07:19am

re: #34 Dark_Falcon

O brother. I don't go to those sites (Hot Air or that other one).

40 JamesTKirk  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:07:23am

re: #34 Dark_Falcon

Hot Air was doing it, I believe. And it was going on big time over at Rodan's Place last night.

I think I need a score card.

41 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:07:29am

re: #36 Kosh's Shadow

Yes. We can see how well "land for peace" worked out in Gaza.

And in the United States.

42 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:07:36am

re: #34 Dark_Falcon

Hot Air was doing it, I believe. And it was going on big time over at Rodan's Place last night.

Oh, for fuck's sake. Nuttier than my Kashi bar.

43 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:07:54am

re: #40 JamesTKirk

I think I need a score card.

In bed.

44 JamesTKirk  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:08:02am

re: #39 J.S.

O brother. I don't go to those sites (Hot Air or that other one).

Like I even have time to read most of the threads on this site.

45 bofhell  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:08:05am

re: #31 JamesTKirk

Israel has already given up something, every time we've gone through this, and never gotten anything in return.

Oh yes they have!

More grief. Sigh.

46 BLBfootballs  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:08:17am

Like the majority of Obama's speeches, nicely delivered and deliciously empty.

"The time has come for the world to move in a new direction. We must embrace a new era of engagement based on mutual interests and mutual respect, and our work must begin now..."

What inane hokum! Do any of the delegates there take this stuff seriously?

47 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:08:17am

re: #33 leafsfan82

Canada plans to walk out during Ahmadinejad's speech

Your text to link...

Germany too, in her denies the Holocaust. We should have Dinner Jacket hustled back onto a place and flown out within two hours if he does that. We don't have to tolerate his lethal lies, and we shouldn't.

48 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:09:00am
49 researchok  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:09:16am

Succinct post, Charles.

50 JamesTKirk  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:09:29am

re: #47 Dark_Falcon

Germany too, in her denies the Holocaust. We should have Dinner Jacket hustled back onto a place and flown out within two hours if he does that. We don't have to tolerate his lethal lies, and we shouldn't.

//You know, we were only joking about pouring Rice Krispies in the keyboard...

51 J.S.  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:09:52am

I think it's time for someone to get a hook and drag the Daffy one off...

52 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:10:20am

re: #47 Dark_Falcon

Germany too, in her denies the Holocaust. We should have Dinner Jacket hustled back onto a place and flown out within two hours if he does that. We don't have to tolerate his lethal lies, and we shouldn't.

I also heard that every year he meats with "scholars" from universities and this year Columbia has not been invited (you know, Columbia, his NYC Iranian Embassy) and a number of other scholars have refused to attend.

Heard this on NPR this morning.

53 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:10:32am
54 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:10:59am

re: #30 Kosh's Shadow

lgf2 has been saying that Charles is going to come out against Israel. I guess because they found he doesn't support their extreme views, that he's turning into a leftist or something.

There's a bunch of folks over at the Deuce who like and support that Kahane guy and his band of followers. They think that anyone who opposes him also opposes Israel. They're wrong, but that's what they believe.

55 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:11:28am

re: #51 J.S.

I think it's time for someone to get a hook and drag the Daffy one off...

He looks like a bad imitation of Chico Marx!

56 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:11:36am

re: #46 BLBfootballs

Like the majority of Obama's speeches, nicely delivered and deliciously empty.

What inane hokum! Do any of the delegates there take this stuff seriously?

It's a typical CBBHO speech:

HOPE!

CHANGE!

YES WE CAN!

(and on the issues that would require actual courage): Present!

57 Equable  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:11:37am

My sweet lord this man is off of his farging trolley.

He's still pissed that Reagan shut him up right quick. Now that we have a paper tiger in the White House he can bloviate and rattle his teeny little (phallic) sabre with impunity.

I love how he calls the Iraq invasion the "mother of all evils" and notes that it was against U.N. resolutions. Apparently he never read 1441.

Jagoff.

58 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:11:45am

Say what you will about Khaddafi, he's certainly a bold risk-taker in the facial hair arena.

59 John Neverbend  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:11:51am

re: #55 sattv4u2

He looks like a bad imitation of Chico Marx!

I bet he doesn't play the piano as well as Chico.

60 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:12:08am

re: #48 MikeySDCA

As Mrs. Bonita Mae Simpkins would say, "Nuttier than a bag of cashew brittle."

I don't know who she is but, I like her saying.

61 J.S.  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:12:10am

The Daffy one is now calling for an investigation by the United Nations into the Iraq War...(i trust Obama won't take this seriously).

62 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:12:16am

re: #59 John Neverbend

I bet he doesn't play the piano as well as Chico.

not many did!

63 drogheda  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:12:17am

re: #33 leafsfan82

Canada plans to walk out during Ahmadinejad's speech

/// Not if the supernatural aura that will appear around Ahmadinejad has anything to say about it.

64 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:12:28am

re: #47 Dark_Falcon

Germany too, if he denies the Holocaust. We should have Dinner Jacket hustled back onto a place and flown out within two hours if he does that. We don't have to tolerate his lethal lies, and we shouldn't.

PIMF

65 researchok  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:12:43am

re: #54 Honorary Yooper

There's a bunch of folks over at the Deuce who like and support that Kahane guy and his band of followers. They think that anyone who opposes him also opposes Israel. They're wrong, but that's what they believe.

The words "when hell freezes over" come to mind.

They can't resort to real exchange on the facts, so they resort to fantasy.

They'll go far.

66 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:12:46am

re: #51 J.S.

I think it's time for someone to get a hook and drag the Daffy one off...

That's all folks!

67 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:12:54am

As I mentioned yesterday, My Moonbat Brother (MMB™) yesterday told me that he explicitly endorses Piggy Zbiggy Brzezinski's recent call for the US to shoot down Israeli planes on their way to Iran if they enter "our" airspace over Iraq. Which they would have to do to make the run on the mullahs' nuke sites.

Piggy left some weasel room on the actual shooting down part, saying it would be up to the Israelis what to do: back down or not.

My brother was all for the shooting part.

To both of them, I would disrespectfully suggest that in a dogfight between our guys and the IAF, the outcome would by no means be inevitably in our favor.

68 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:13:02am

It looks like Gadafi is doing his Fonzie impersonation in that picture. What shark will he jump?

69 Pianobuff  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:13:23am

Ghadafi is the "Diva of Dictators".

70 livefreeor die  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:13:36am

re: #31 JamesTKirk

Israel has already given up something, every time we've gone through this, and never gotten anything in return.

Nothing in return except rockets and continued hatred from the Muslim world. That's all the Palestinians will continue to give them until the Western world calls, "BS".

71 JamesTKirk  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:13:41am

re: #51 J.S.

I think it's time for someone to get a hook and drag the Daffy one off...

I forget. Is it rabbit season or duck season right now?

72 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:13:55am
73 brennant  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:13:58am

Sodomy? What?

74 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:13:59am

re: #61 J.S.

The Daffy one is now calling for an investigation by the United Nations into the Iraq War...(i trust Obama won't take this seriously).

He just might. It's another chance for him to Blame Bush.

75 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:14:05am

re: #58 Occasional Reader

Say what you will about Khaddafi, he's certainly a bold risk-taker in the facial hair arena.

Makes me wanna' wax 'im.

76 Equable  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:14:14am

The national leader responsible for the Lockerbie tragedy talking his shite... when in glasss houses.

"Men were made love to and this was never done in previous wars..."

WHAT THE HELL IS HE BABBLING ABOUT?

Oh... people raped in prison.

77 debutaunt  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:14:36am

re: #58 Occasional Reader

Say what you will about Khaddafi, he's certainly a bold risk-taker in the facial hair arena.

hahahahahahhahahahahahahaaa

78 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:14:37am

re: #63 drogheda

/// Not if the supernatural aura that will appear around Ahmadinejad has anything to say about it.

I'd forgotten about that!

79 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:14:37am
80 Capitalist Tool  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:14:39am

Good Lord, but this guy is entertaining!

81 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:14:47am

re: #71 JamesTKirk

I forget. Is it rabbit season or duck season right now?

What a maroon!

82 Equable  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:15:06am

"Why are we against Taliban?"

Wow, does this guy read the Huffington Post and Daily Kos?

83 John Neverbend  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:15:06am

re: #61 J.S.

The Daffy one is now calling for an investigation by the United Nations into the Iraq War...(i trust Obama won't take this seriously).

He just used the word "sodomy".

84 brennant  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:15:13am

re: #80 Capitalist Tool

Entertaining?? This man LEADS a COUNTRY! This is frightening.

85 Andrew Brehm  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:15:18am

If Qadafi is so worried about the "African nations" he should make the first step and remove the Arab government in Libya and return power to the native Imazighen, an African nation.

86 JamesTKirk  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:15:39am

re: #72 MikeySDCA

You don't read trash fantasy?

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

87 Syrah  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:15:53am

Does the U.N. promote peace or does it foment strife?

88 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:15:59am

Now crazy Muammar is comparing the Taliban to the Vatican.

Someone please hit the gong.

89 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:16:04am

re: #48 MikeySDCA

As Mrs. Bonita Mae Simpkins would say, "Nuttier than a bag of cashew brittle."

There's also Jonah Goldberg's immortal "nuttier than Mr. Peanut's pool party".

90 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:16:14am

re: #72 MikeySDCA

Character in Tad Williams's Otherland series. I'm shocked. You don't read trash fantasy?

I'm re-reading Bork's Slouching Towards Gomorrah now.

91 brennant  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:16:18am

re: #88 Ringo the Gringo

GONG!

92 livefreeor die  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:16:38am

re: #71 JamesTKirk

I forget. Is it rabbit season or duck season right now?

I say, "Fire."

93 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:16:43am

He should only keep speaking for hours and hours.

94 Capitalist Tool  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:16:49am

re: #82 Equable

"Why are we against Taliban?"

Wow, does this guy read the Huffington Post and Daily Kos?

That's easy. We told the Taliban to give us Al- Qaedi,
They said " come and get 'em", which we did.

95 Flyers1974  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:16:52am

re: #12 Baier

Why no insist that Gaza and the West bank be incorporated into the countries they belong to, Egypt and Jordan? Problem solved.

Neither of those countries would agree to this in ten thousand years.

96 JamesTKirk  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:17:07am

re: #89 Occasional Reader

There's also Jonah Goldberg's immortal "nuttier than Mr. Peanut's pool party".

"You're nuttier than Chinese chicken salad, mmmkay," Mr. Mackey, guidance counselor, South Park Elementary School

97 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:17:10am

re: #87 Syrah

Does the U.N. promote peace or does it foment strife?

I thought they perpetuated uselessness and irrelevancy...?

98 bofhell  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:17:19am

A friend of mine on Twitter just wrote:

CNN in the background, Gadhafi is in full stream of consciousness mode now. Makes Falkner seem easy to follow.

99 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:17:24am

re: #93 Ben Hur

He should only keep speaking for hours and hours.

Feels like he already HAS !

100 Equable  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:17:27am

re: #94 Capitalist Tool

Amen... amen.

101 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:17:29am
102 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:17:30am

re: #71 JamesTKirk

I forget. Is it rabbit season or duck season right now?

It's Elmer Season!

103 researchok  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:17:52am

re: #98 bofhell

A friend of mine on Twitter just wrote:

That's the line of the day.

104 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:18:02am

re: #97 Sharmuta

I thought they perpetuated uselessness and irrelevancy...?

They perpetuate fancy NY restaurant dinners and hookers!

105 debutaunt  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:18:06am

re: #87 Syrah

Does the U.N. promote peace or does it foment strife?

It promotes fomenting.

106 Equable  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:18:33am

re: #105 debutaunt

It promotes fomenting.

More like fermenting.

107 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:18:43am

Beer?

108 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:18:43am
109 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:18:46am

re: #88 Ringo the Gringo

Now crazy Muammar is comparing the Taliban to the Vatican.

Sounds like something you can read anytime on DU or Kos.

110 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:18:58am

re: #37 MandyManners

Oh, for fuck's sake. Nuttier than my Kashi bar.

Yes. I can't understand how some people can think their support for white supremacists and neo-Nazis is consistent with support for Israel.

111 Summersong  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:19:02am

Look at those notes Qaddafi is referring to - Looks like a 2nd grader scribble page.

112 livefreeor die  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:19:05am

How does Gadaffy even know the word sodomy? Ahmanutjob said there were no homosexuals in Iran and I'm assuming that applied to all his friends' states too.

113 Equable  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:19:11am

re: #107 Ben Hur

Beer?

Hell it's only nine in the morning here but I shall partake.

Cheers!

114 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:19:36am

re: #112 livefreeor die

How does Gadaffy even know the word sodomy? Ahmanutjob said there were no homosexuals in Iran and I'm assuming that applied to all his friends' states too.

Local tradition.

115 Syrah  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:19:38am

re: #97 Sharmuta

I thought they perpetuated uselessness and irrelevancy...?

They have a knack for political corruption that is shows some genius.

If I recall correctly, the Oil for Food payoffs worked out well for some.

116 centaur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:19:42am

re: #90 MandyManners

Okay -- I do -- I honestly could not finish Williams 9 million page epic -- just lost interest -- but am open to any other suggestions for good series, titles you got.

117 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:19:49am

re: #108 MikeySDCA

As I said on the previous thread, that this solipsistic psychotic is in charge of even a sandbox like Libya, says bad things about us as a species.

He's a crazy pachyderm??

118 Equable  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:19:50am

Oh god the Jewish conspiracy about the JFK assassination...

119 Baier  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:20:01am

re: #31 JamesTKirk

Israel has already given up something, every time we've gone through this, and never gotten anything in return.

I agree with that. I don't think Israel should give up anything more without security guarantees. I hate the idea too, but Israel will concede land if it create a real opportunity.

120 researchok  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:20:02am

Clearly, Qaddafi hasn't seen Oliver Stone's films.

121 ointmentfly  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:20:03am

Ron Jeremy looks like he has lost weight... why is he speaking to the UN?

122 J.S.  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:20:04am

re: #74 Dark_Falcon

You know, there are all these nagging little concerns about "where does Obama really stand on policy X?" -- and right now there are about half a dozen ones, where you have/read Obama's words/threats, but right now, it's words only (rhetoric)...which hasn't been turned into actions (but I fear that if there's a sudden need for a "distraction", obama could, indeed, put his words into actions...but that hasn't happened yet, so I'm waiting...)

123 livefreeor die  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:20:21am

re: #114 Walter L. Newton

Local tradition.

Or a "friend of his" read about it in Penthouse.

124 Danny  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:20:22am

Did I just see his fist unclench?

125 JamesTKirk  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:20:34am

re: #121 ointmentfly

Ron Jeremy looks like he has lost weight... why is he speaking to the UN?

That's a grave insult to the Hedgehog.

126 John Neverbend  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:20:34am

"Jack Ruby, an Israeli, killed Lee Harvey..." - Gaddafi

Riigght. He was born in that well-known moshav, Chicago Ill.

127 researchok  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:20:44am

Good thing no one has ever been killed in Libya.

128 Kragar  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:20:45am

Obama should have saved his breath. The Israelis and the Palis have already basically told him its not going to happen.

129 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:20:45am

I'd give someone in the audience 9at the UN) a thousand bucks to stand up and shout

RONALD REAGAN!

Now this nutbag wants to exhume the Kennedy assasination!

DRINK!

130 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:20:48am

re: #55 sattv4u2

He looks like a bad imitation of Chico Marx!

Too bad he doesn't follow Harpo Marx's example of how to talk.
Honk-honk!

131 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:21:09am

This man honestly belongs in a mental hospital, he's completely of his rocker.

132 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:21:09am

re: #124 Danny

Did I just see his fist unclench?

Shock and Awe made his colon un-clench, didn't it?

133 Leonidas Hoplite  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:21:23am

re: #118 Equable

Oh god the Jewish conspiracy about the JFK assassination...

Castro is Jewish? Who Knew?

134 Capitalist Tool  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:21:23am

Is that really water he's swilling?
He sounds more like it's Hera Dura.

135 researchok  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:21:30am

I vote for Qadaffi as the UN Entertainer of the Decade.

136 Pianobuff  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:21:39am

re: #98 bofhell

A friend of mine on Twitter just wrote:

CNN in the background, Gadhafi is in full stream of consciousness mode now. Makes Falkner seem easy to follow.

And it's just about the right time for him to break into À la recherche du temps perdu.

137 albusteve  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:21:54am

the UN is the mother lode of corruption...people get filthy rich working for it or it's associated agencies...strife and conflict pay off in huge dollars...the whole thing is bigger and more profitable than the Mafia ever was...I hate the UN with a passion

138 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:21:56am

re: #117 Ben Hur

He's a crazy pachyderm??

What?

Were none of you paying attention yesterday??

139 John Neverbend  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:21:58am

re: #130 Kosh's Shadow

Too bad he doesn't follow Harpo Marx's example of how to talk.
Honk-honk!

I want to see him pull a "gookie".

Gookie

140 Baier  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:22:03am

re: #95 Flyers1974

Neither of those countries would agree to this in ten thousand years.

I think it could happen, but never would happen.

141 Danny  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:22:25am

If I squint my eyes he looks a little bit like an old Johnny Depp.

142 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:22:33am
143 Wendya  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:22:34am

re: #128 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Obama should have saved his breath. The Israelis and the Palis have already basically told him its not going to happen.

With Obama's popularity on the rocks and Netanyahu's rising in Israel, Obama is setting himself up for a massive fail if he attempts to dictate terms.

144 StillAMarine  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:22:45am

I just do not get it. The world screams at Jewish settlements in the West Bank, where Jews make up about 1% of the population and about 2% of the total land area, yet totally ignores the fact that a very large number of Palestinians live in Israel, have seats in the Knesset, and who contribute to the nation.
Lets do a little "equivalence" here. No more double standards. No more blaming Israel for problems Israel did not create. End the culture of hate, envy, and death.

145 califleftyb  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:23:03am

This Libyan moron just blamed Israel for the assassination of JFK and MLK !!! Prediction - this will be the next anti-Semitic/anti-Zionist trope.

Jeez I think his head is about to explode...from my lips to God's ears.

146 JamesTKirk  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:23:21am

re: #137 albusteve

the UN is the mother lode of corruption...people get filthy rich and all the underaged boys and girls they can rape working for it or it's associated agencies...strife and conflict pay off in huge dollars...the whole thing is bigger and more profitable than the Mafia ever was...I hate the UN with a passion

147 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:23:40am
148 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:24:32am

He actually has this shit written down!

149 researchok  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:24:32am

Sabra and Shatilla MAssacres?

The were killed by Lebanese Christians- does anyone believe that was done out of love?

150 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:24:50am

re: #35 sattv4u2

Is it just me, or does daffgy look like a claymation character?

Ever see the kids claymation show Shaun the Sheep? Cadfly looks like the sheep dog character.

151 Capitalist Tool  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:25:06am

All I was expecting for my day off today was catching up on yard work...
never expected to be so thoroughly entertained.

152 Pianobuff  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:25:31am

Is there a Twitter feed for ShitGhadafiSays?

153 Danny  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:25:49am

re: #152 Pianobuff

Is there a Twitter feed for ShitGhadafiSays?

hahah

154 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:25:56am

I'm off to lunch. Looking forward to coming back for Part Four of the Khadaffi speech.

155 John Neverbend  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:26:06am

"The UN is insignificant."

Finally! Gaddafi said something sensible.

156 Capitalist Tool  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:26:12am

re: #147 buzzsawmonkey

Rule of thumb is, Jews never gain title, Arabs never lose title.

That's right. Has GoDaffy mentioned the Moslem right to Spain yet?

157 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:26:28am

re: #131 Ringo the Gringo

This man honestly belongs in a mental hospital, he's completely of his rocker.

In that case, he fits at the UN.

158 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:26:35am

someone throw a shoe at him!

159 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:26:42am
160 JamesTKirk  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:26:44am

re: #155 John Neverbend

"The UN is insignificant."

Finally! Gaddafi said something sensible.

Let him rant long enough and he'll eventually produce all of the works of Shakespeare.

161 Danny  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:26:52am

I hate to admit it but I sort of agree with the Birchers about the UN.

162 bofhell  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:27:02am

re: #103 researchok

That's the line of the day.

Lotus Knows beauty is skin deep but crazy goes straight to the core.

163 harrylook  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:27:11am

re: #24 Pianobuff

This is nothing that can't be resolved over a beer on the White House lawn.

well said. 0bama could not be more clueless on foreign policy. it's taking him way too long to realize that most other countries don't have good intentions.

164 JamesTKirk  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:27:22am

re: #161 Danny

I hate to admit it but I sort of agree with the Birchers about the UN.

It's not like they were the first to make the observation.

165 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:27:29am

You'd think this shit stain could afford a better interpreter. I need one to understand this clowns English.

166 debutaunt  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:28:06am

re: #148 sattv4u2

He actually has this shit written down!

No. He just mis-spoke a little.

167 califleftyb  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:28:08am

Somali pirates --- protecting fish!

168 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:28:16am
169 researchok  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:28:27am

Fish Flu?

170 John Neverbend  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:28:27am

re: #165 Creeping Eruption

You'd think this shit stain could afford a better interpreter. I need one to understand this clowns English.

My Arabic isn't good enough to know if the translation is even accurate. What's Arabic for "fish-flu"?

171 reine.de.tout  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:28:31am

re: #164 JamesTKirk

It's not like they were the first to make the observation.

No, they weren't.
It's still aggravating when idiots hold a similar view to your own on a particular issue.

172 Flyers1974  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:28:32am

re: #143 Wendya

With Obama's popularity on the rocks and Netanyahu's rising in Israel, Obama is setting himself up for a massive fail if he attempts to dictate terms.

I don't know about massive fail, I'd say the usual fail re: US adminastrations trying to solve this. If there is a middle east success, either by Obama or a future administration, I'd say the most likely candidate would be Syria.

173 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:28:43am

re: #144 StillAMarine

I just do not get it. The world screams at Jewish settlements in the West Bank, where Jews make up about 1% of the population and about 2% of the total land area, yet totally ignores the fact that a very large number of Palestinians live in Israel, have seats in the Knesset, and who contribute to the nation.
Lets do a little "equivalence" here. No more double standards. No more blaming Israel for problems Israel did not create. End the culture of hate, envy, and death.

And the world seems to have no problems with the Palis wanting their area to be Judenrein. In fact, they say the Israelis are practicing apartheid, not the Palis.

174 califleftyb  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:29:01am

Swine flu to become Fish flu in order to sell medicines!!! I LOVE THIS GUY!!

175 Capitalist Tool  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:29:01am

Ok. My sides hurt- can't stop laughing-have to quit watching- can't-
same obviously not true for all of those empty- seaters.

176 bofhell  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:29:03am

re: #106 Equable

More like fermenting.

There's an article on Lifehacker today about fermenting your own soda.

177 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:29:18am

re: #170 John Neverbend

My Arabic isn't good enough to know if the translation is even accurate. What's Arabic for "fish-flu"?

Ulllulululuuu? ///

178 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:29:26am
179 Equable  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:29:37am

re: #176 bofhell

There's an article on Lifehacker today about fermenting your own soda.

Thanks! I shall look into it.

Maybe he said fish because the koran won't allow him to say "swine flu".

180 JamesTKirk  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:29:38am

re: #171 reine.de.tout

No, they weren't.
It's still aggravating when idiots hold a similar view to your own on a particular issue.

True; but since there are plenty of idiots on both sides of many issues, it's inevitable that you'll find some agreeing with you. Just don't let them touch you.

181 Genosaurer  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:29:46am

re: #11 Sharmuta

This is just wrong- there absolutely should be a pre-condition- an acknowledgement of Israel's right to exist comes to mind.

How can you even have negotiations when one side refuses to acknowledge the existence of the other? It baffles me.

The fact that we have to ask for that (worse, the fact that it's controversial enough that it can't be a precondition to opening talks!) should make it crystal clear to even the most casual observer which side in the Middle East is really interested in peace.

182 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:29:49am

re: #169 researchok

Fish Flu?

Free vaccinations for all fish!!

183 researchok  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:30:11am

You'd think he'd have to pee by now...

184 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:30:12am
The world's problems are not "solely America's endeavor," Obama said, noting the threats from poverty, global warming, disease pandemics and overpopulation.

As much as I am kind of tired being the world's policeman, I have a feeling that this will be interpreted as:

"Hey, the red rug is rolled out, the green light is on, any one hunkering to swing at Israel should take their chance now."

IMHO.

185 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:30:21am

re: #161 Danny

I hate to admit it but I sort of agree with the Birchers about the UN.

Well, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
As long as that's about as far as you go in agreeing with them.
But then, if you weren't OK, you wouldn't still be at LGF.

186 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:31:00am

Here comes plea for palis

187 brennant  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:31:13am

I think he just wore out the other translator!

188 John Neverbend  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:31:16am

Now they've switched translators.

189 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:31:45am

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area, where diplomats are busy scurrying around in their SUV caravans and we've got despots and dictators lecturing everyone else about the evils of the US or with Khadafi claiming that the UN fails to prevent wars (ignoring that the UN also has repeatedly failed to prevent genocide - an action that would require going to war to stop said genocides). He's obviously slamming the UN over the US war in Afghanistan and Iraq, even though the UN failed to adhere to its own resolutions demanding Iraqi compliance and Afghanistan harbored the very terrorists involved in the 9/11 attacks - an act of war itself.

Obama is hoping for a ME peace process, and to solve it in an exceedingly short period of time. He's trying to ignore 5,000 years of history of conflict in the region, to say nothing of the instant violence and enmity raging from the Islamic world and the Middle East nations against Israel's very existence. You can't have a 2-state solution when the Palestinians don't even recognize Israel's right to exist, let alone its right to exist as a Jewish state. The same goes for the other Arab/Islamic countries in the region and around the world, even as they all silently hope that Israel deals Iran's nuclear program a fatal blow because they know that Iran would like nothing more than to smite their Sunni-majority neighbors in a fight that too stretches back more than a thousand years.

The US does the Israelis no favors when it routinely ignores Palestinian terrorism in the form of thousands of kassams, that required Operation Cast Lead. It does the Israelis no favors when they're cast as the bad guys for trying to protect themselves from terrorism, all while the US and EU are funding Palestinian Authority, which siphons money into the ongoing war against Israel without holding the PA and Palestinians to account for their actions and take responsibility for their massive failings - the inability to cement a peace deal based on either the 2000 Camp David proposal or the Olmert proposal, either of which would have given Palestinians a state in much of the West Bank and Gaza. Both were rejected out of hand, and they must be held accountable for what has happened since.

The US can't solve the world's problems, Obama says, but he's going to put the US in a position where it can't protect itself should the need arise. The US can't rely on the UN for protection because evil regimes will continue doing whatever is necessary to further their goals - such as Iranian and North Korean nuclear programs.

190 califleftyb  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:31:49am

They just changed interpreters - I think the first one must have just dropped dead from sounding insane.

191 Capitalist Tool  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:31:52am

Fox just reported that back in the 80's the CIA judged Q. borderline crazy.
Looks like he emigrated a long time ago.

192 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:31:54am

re: #167 califleftyb

Somali pirates --- protecting fish!

Well, they are, by being pirates instead of fishermen.
//

193 Leonidas Hoplite  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:32:17am

re: #163 harrylook

well said. 0bama could not be more clueless on foreign policy. it's taking him way too long to realize that most other countries don't have good intentions.

Newflash: He won't ever realize it.

194 Genosaurer  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:32:28am

I miss John Bolton, United States Ambassador to the United Nations.

195 John Neverbend  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:32:41am

"The solution is a democratic state without religious fanaticism..."

Right, the secular state in Palestine, as envisaged by the Palestine National Covenant.

196 Danny  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:32:45am

Fox just gave up and went to a commercial break.

197 StillAMarine  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:32:51am

re: #173 Kosh's Shadow

And the world seems to have no problems with the Palis wanting their area to be Judenrein. In fact, they say the Israelis are practicing apartheid, not the Palis.

Yep. You said that right! But the Palis do not even practice apartheid. They go for expulsion, and failing that genocide.

198 Capitalist Tool  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:32:54am

re: #194 Genosaurer

I miss John Bolton, United States Ambassador to the United Nations.

Teddy Roosevelt incarnate.

199 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:33:08am
200 researchok  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:33:15am

"Isratine, because Arabs have no animosity toward Israel..."

201 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:33:41am

The Arabs are going to give the Jews protection? LOL

202 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:33:45am

re: #181 Genosaurer

How can you even have negotiations when one side refuses to acknowledge the existence of the other? It baffles me.

The fact that we have to ask for that (worse, the fact that it's controversial enough that it can't be a precondition to opening talks!) should make it crystal clear to even the most casual observer which side in the Middle East is really interested in peace.

It should make it clear, but it doesn't.

And that should be the one precondition to talks. Obama should tell Abbas, come back when you accept Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state. Otherwise, complain to someone else.

203 Equable  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:33:47am

"One day the Jews will need the arabs and we will give them protection..."

Yeah through subjugation and of course, the jizya.

204 John Neverbend  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:33:54am

Was Gaddafi's speech produced by The Onion? It's becoming quite surreal.

205 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:34:20am

Did he just say we have to sacrifice Darfur?

206 Pianobuff  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:34:26am

re: #199 buzzsawmonkey

Is there an Automat for the diplomats? Just to give them a real New York experience.

Send them down to McSorley's instead.

207 JamesTKirk  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:34:28am

re: #204 John Neverbend

Was Gaddafi's speech produced by The Onion?

Manatees.

208 brennant  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:34:43am

re: #204 John Neverbend

I think his kicky hat is constricting his brain.

209 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:34:53am

re: #187 brennant

I think he just wore out the other translator!

The first one is being taken away in a special jacket until he recovers from the insanity.

210 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:34:58am
211 califleftyb  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:35:40am

He's ready to wrap... get ready for the UN standing O

212 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:35:48am

re: #149 researchok

Sabra and Shatilla MAssacres?

The were killed by Lebanese Christians- does anyone believe that was done out of love?

I don't absolve the IDF of all guilt for what happened there, although the situation they found themselves in was essentially a no-win. But the actual perpetrators of the massacres have been totally absolved and forgotten--a tribal tiff or something--and the Israelis condemned as monsters. It's goddamn frustrating.

213 brennant  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:36:13am

oh thank the Lord it is over...

214 SummerSong  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:36:14am

Bye Bye Krazy dude.

215 John Neverbend  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:36:17am

Thuuu pitch, and Gaddafi strikes out looking!

216 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:36:18am

Someone's bringing a net!

217 albusteve  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:36:27am

re: #202 Kosh's Shadow

It should make it clear, but it doesn't.

And that should be the one precondition to talks. Obama should tell Abbas, come back when you accept Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state. Otherwise, complain to someone else.

using Israel as political currency...they all do...it's not only despicable, it's immoral...many people have needlessly died for it...I might even call it murder

218 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:36:30am

re: #209 Kosh's Shadow

The first one is being taken away in a special jacket until he recovers from the insanity.

His fyunch-click has gone Crazy Eddie.

219 Leonidas Hoplite  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:36:36am

re: #205 Creeping Eruption

Did he just say we have to sacrifice Darfur?

Hasn't it already been sacrificed?

220 brennant  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:36:38am

...and now for something completely different.

221 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:36:50am

That's Ghadaffy???
I saw that dude selling crack under the Salt Lake City Viaduct
just to weeks ago!!
What a piece of...

222 Genosaurer  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:37:13am

re: #220 brennant

...and now for something completely different.

At the UN? Not likely.

Most of the other speakers are just better at disguising the crazy.

223 Capitalist Tool  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:37:29am

I'm shocked.
His first address to the General Assembly?
Would've figured him for Most- Favored Speaker status.

224 Danny  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:37:33am

CNN's incisive analysis: "it 's like sitting down with a great leader and warm camel milk."

225 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:37:42am

re: #170 John Neverbend

My Arabic isn't good enough to know if the translation is even accurate. What's Arabic for "fish-flu"?

The word for 'fish' is 'samakah'. I have no idea what the word for 'flu' is.

226 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:38:04am
227 Equable  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:38:07am

re: #220 brennant

...and now for something completely different.

I was just thinking that. Love that movie, and that phrase is perfect.

228 Flyers1974  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:38:11am

re: #163 harrylook

well said. 0bama could not be more clueless on foreign policy. it's taking him way too long to realize that most other countries don't have good intentions.

I don't think there is much correlation between these types of speeches and what any administration actually believes. I think it has long been established that countries act in what they consider their own best interest. Obama's foreign policy hasn't differed in any meaningful manner from Bush (other than invading Iraq) or from what McCain would have done, in my opinion.

229 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:38:27am

And this morning we get a big picture in the NYT of Bibi and Mazen shaking hands - with Obama looking like he's trying to stay out of the line of fire of the Special Forces guys whose rifles are trained on the heads of Netanyahu and Abbas to force them to touch each other's hands.

What a charade.

230 Leonidas Hoplite  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:38:38am

re: #206 Pianobuff

Send them down to McSorley's instead.

Too low brow for self-important windbags.

231 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:39:12am
232 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:40:27am

re: #231 buzzsawmonkey
I'm wondering if everyone was asked to remove their shoes...

233 John Neverbend  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:40:31am

Oops, a bit of a slip-up by the Ugandan President. He referred to the Children of Israel in Deuteronomy as "the Israelis".

234 bofhell  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:40:43am

re: #179 Equable

Thanks! I shall look into it.

Maybe he said fish because the koran won't allow him to say "swine flu".

Anytime.

235 Danny  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:40:49am

All the station anchors are coming back from commercial breaks fighting back laughter.

236 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:40:59am

re: #233 John Neverbend

Oops, a bit of a slip-up by the Ugandan President. He referred to the Children of Israel in Deuteronomy as "the Israelis".

Which is making me wonder where this is going

237 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:40:59am

re: #229 Cato the Elder

And this morning we get a big picture in the NYT of Bibi and Mazen shaking hands - with Obama looking like he's trying to stay out of the line of fire of the Special Forces guys whose rifles are trained on the heads of Netanyahu and Abbas to force them to touch each other's hands.

What a charade.

And Abbas has already said he won't go to the talks that Obama said would start, unless Israel stopped all "settlement" activity.
So much for unicorn diplomacy.

238 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:41:57am

re: #232 reloadingisnotahobby

see #158

239 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:42:04am
240 Wendya  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:42:34am

re: #210 buzzsawmonkey

Obama's "two-state solution" is Palestine and Hamastan. The question is whether or not he himself realizes this.

I believe he question is whether or not he cares.

241 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:43:25am

re: #238 sattv4u2

I had no idea I was Clairvoyant!!!
Ha! Cool!

242 poteen  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:43:45am

Qaddaffi looked like he's got a Don King do under his Jackie Kennedy pillbox hat.
/Fashion brilliance!

243 J.S.  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:43:49am

re: #224 Danny

CNN's incisive analysis: "it 's like sitting down with a great leader and warm camel milk."

I think up here in Canada there's some sort of time delay -- I just heard that "analysis" from that jackass from the International CNN desk -- I've forgotten that idiot's name, (but I know what he is) -- he sounds truly enthralled with Daffy's gibberish. He's gushing over Daffy. frigging CNN.

244 SummerSong  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:44:27am

NoMoammar.

245 Wendya  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:45:22am

re: #228 Flyers1974

I don't think there is much correlation between these types of speeches and what any administration actually believes. I think it has long been established that countries act in what they consider their own best interest. Obama's foreign policy hasn't differed in any meaningful manner from Bush (other than invading Iraq) or from what McCain would have done, in my opinion.

I'm pretty sure McCain would have gone a different direction on Honduras.

I'm not sure how Obama thinks it's in our best interests to side with Zelaya.

246 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:45:41am

To recap Khadafi's craziness:
Pharmaceutical companies create viruses in order to then sell vaccinations.
Jack Ruby's killing of Lee Harvey Oswald needs to be investigated.
Questioned the US war in Afghanistan.
Called Iraq War the mother of all evils.
Questioned the legitimacy of the Security Council permanent member vetoes, claiming their illegitimacy because the Charter claims that all nations are equal.
UN failed to stop 65 wars.

I'm sure a few of his more memorable phrases got lost in translation, but Ahmadinejad is going to have a hard time topping this craziness.

247 researchok  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:46:04am

re: #212 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't absolve the IDF of all guilt for what happened there, although the situation they found themselves in was essentially a no-win. But the actual perpetrators of the massacres have been totally absolved and forgotten--a tribal tiff or something--and the Israelis condemned as monsters. It's goddamn frustrating.

SFZ, see this- An Open Letter to Human Rights Watch for insight into what really happened at Sabra and Shatilla.

Excerpt:

There were no Israelis in Mount Lebanon to murder, they were all innocent Christian civilians massacred in hundreds of low intensity incidents (as in Israel today) just because they were Christians. The barbarism in Lebanon was an Arafat speciality. Christians were decapitated, girls were raped, parents and kids were murdered in the streets due to Palestinian military attacks against the Christians areas, as they refused to distinguish between adult men and women and children. All Christians, despite age or sex, were Palestinian targets. These were the same Palestinians we welcomed with open arms in 1948 with charity and our reward was death and torture.

Sabra and Chatilla was not a peaceful area where strangers entered for no reason and murdered innocent civilians. Sabra and Chatilla were one of the largest training centers for international terrorism. Most of the terrorists of the world visited the Sabra and Chatilla Camps in Beirut, received extensive training in terrorism, ranging from the use of plastic explosives to booby trapping cars, and special, assassination techniques given by well experienced followers of Yasser Arafat.

Sabra and Chatilla was no mistake, it was the Christian Community's inability to continue to suffer their extinction and their planned genocide that forced them to decide to halt once and for all Palestinian terrorism in Lebanon, a country that has suffered terribly from PLO terror while the world ignored us, making them willing accomplices. Don't blame the Christians or General Sharon. The Palestinians under Yasir Arafat and Elias Hobeika are responsible as well as a world that doesn't care.

248 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:46:44am

The new wold currency??
Yedollenco?
Pesfranar?
Lirdollfraneso?
I got a headach

249 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:46:45am

re: #243 J.S.

I think up here in Canada there's some sort of time delay -- I just heard that "analysis" from that jackass from the International CNN desk -- I've forgotten that idiot's name, (but I know what he is) -- he sounds truly enthralled with Daffy's gibberish. He's gushing over Daffy. frigging CNN.

CNN International is the worst of the bunch.

250 researchok  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:46:52am
251 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:47:13am
252 flyovercountry  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:47:27am

re: #9 NJDhockeyfan

Can Obama's poll numbers in Israel get any lower?

I would like to be able to blame Obama solely here, but the sad truth is that he is another in a long line of American Presidents who have held Israel under a different microscope than they hold the rest of the world. President Obama did not invent moral equivalence, he is simply its latest practitioner. If you remember Bush's policy, Israel was the only nation not invited to defend themselves against terrorism. While I am not an Obama fan in even the slightest fashion, I still need to see reality for what it is. It may be a long while before we see an American President with the fortitude to stand up to the Saudi's in what we would like to be the American tradition of showing a backbone.

253 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:48:01am

re: #248 reloadingisnotahobby

The new wold currency??
Yedollenco?
Pesfranar?
Lirdollfraneso?
I got a headach

I suggest we move to the quatloo standard.

254 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:48:40am

re: #253 Kosh's Shadow
So...What's the exchange rate??

255 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:49:17am
256 Danny  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:49:22am

re: #243 J.S.

I must be closer to Atlanta.

257 Cato the Elder  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:49:22am

re: #246 lawhawk

To recap Khadafi's craziness:
Pharmaceutical companies create viruses in order to then sell vaccinations.
Jack Ruby's killing of Lee Harvey Oswald needs to be investigated.
Questioned the US war in Afghanistan.
Called Iraq War the mother of all evils.
Questioned the legitimacy of the Security Council permanent member vetoes, claiming their illegitimacy because the Charter claims that all nations are equal.
UN failed to stop 65 wars.

I'm sure a few of his more memorable phrases got lost in translation, but Ahmadinejad is going to have a hard time topping this craziness.

No he won't.

258 Flyers1974  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:50:05am

re: #245 Wendya

I'm pretty sure McCain would have gone a different direction on Honduras.
I'm not sure how Obama thinks it's in our best interests to side with Zelaya.

Could be. I haven't paid much attention to Honduras. I believe the rationale was his removal by the military.

259 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:50:10am

re: #254 reloadingisnotahobby

So...What's the exchange rate??

It varies with which thrall wins.

260 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:50:38am

re: #253 Kosh's Shadow

Well, you could have Earth credit units (Babylon 5).
Gold pressed latinum (ST)
Republic Credits (SW)

/

261 Randall Gross  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:51:01am
For Obama to try to paint this as a simple matter of moral equivalence, with both sides equally to blame and both sides equally interested in finding a resolution, is simply wrong.

Omigosh, I thought Charles was a blind Obamabot...


// said with my "conservative blogosphere tinfoil hat" on...

262 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:51:32am

re: #260 lawhawk

Well, you could have Earth credit units (Babylon 5).
Gold pressed latinum (ST)
Republic Credits (SW)

/

Better be latinum; we just had a credit crunch.

263 poteen  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:52:48am

re: #246 lawhawk

You think it's time to show Uncle Mo the really neat options available on the newer model F-18s? He hasn't attended an airshow for 25 years and may not be aware of the cool new stuff.

264 Flyers1974  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:53:20am

re: #252 flyovercountry

I would like to be able to blame Obama solely here, but the sad truth is that he is another in a long line of American Presidents who have held Israel under a different microscope than they hold the rest of the world. President Obama did not invent moral equivalence, he is simply its latest practitioner. If you remember Bush's policy, Israel was the only nation not invited to defend themselves against terrorism. While I am not an Obama fan in even the slightest fashion, I still need to see reality for what it is. It may be a long while before we see an American President with the fortitude to stand up to the Saudi's in what we would like to be the American tradition of showing a backbone.

I don't think its a matter of any president's fortitude regarding Saudi, but rather the our failure to become less dependent on oil. Until that happens, the Saudis have the better hand.

265 Wendya  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:53:42am

re: #258 Flyers1974

Could be. I haven't paid much attention to Honduras. I believe the rationale was his removal by the military.

He was removed by the Congress and the Supreme court. Once the order came down, he was escorted out of the country by the military because in reality, who the hell else could do it, and the Vice President immediately took his place.

266 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:54:22am

re: #263 poteen

You think it's time to show Uncle Mo the really neat options available on the newer model F-18s? He hasn't attended an airshow for 25 years and may not be aware of the cool new stuff.

I think a private show over his tent complex might be the right venue. We need so show him how our weapons function.
//(Not advocating this)

267 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:54:51am

Bolton: Obama Speech Puts Israel on 'Chopping Block'

...Bolton commented: "As I said, a president is going to advocate his own policies. But these repeated efforts by the president in this speech to say implicitly, I am not George Bush, is I think unprecedented.

"And I think it’s carrying an American political debate, which is legitimate to have, into the international arena. That is particularly what I find unpresidential."

Bolton also said that in his address Obama "put Israel on the chopping block. I don’t think there’s ever been a speech by an American president, let alone one at the United Nations, that was so critical of Israel."

268 captdiggs  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:55:19am

This bears repeating, because it is the entire problem summed up in a paragraph.

"And again, there’s a serious problem that no one wants to examine: the continued rejection of Israel’s right to exist, not just from Palestinians, but from the entire Arab world. For Obama to try to paint this as a simple matter of moral equivalence, with both sides equally to blame and both sides equally interested in finding a resolution, is simply wrong. Unfortunately, this state of denial has dominated US policy for many years, and shows no sign of ending any time soon."

As long as head-in-the-sand rhetoric rules, everyone will be frustrated.
I have no doubt, none whatsoever, that if the arab/muslim world legitimately ended its non stop vitriol against Israel, blood libels, incitement of violence torwards not just Israel, but Jews, made real efforts at normalizing relations...that Israel would deal with any settlement expansion, and quite forcefully if necessary.

The problem is, that much of this is a religious war and for that to end, Islam must look inward.

269 Genosaurer  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:56:15am

re: #264 Flyers1974

I don't think its a matter of any president's fortitude regarding Saudi, but rather the our failure to become less dependent on oil. Until that happens, the Saudis have the better hand.

Only 6-7% of our total crude oil imports come from Saudi Arabia.

Oil's not the reason.

Or at least, oil's not all of the reason.

270 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:57:56am

re: #269 Genosaurer

Only 6-7% of our total crude oil imports come from Saudi Arabia.

Oil's not the reason.

Or at least, oil's not all of the reason.

Then why do we need the Saud's --to keep the status quo in the ME?

271 Flyers1974  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:58:34am

re: #269 Genosaurer

Only 6-7% of our total crude oil imports come from Saudi Arabia.

Oil's not the reason.

Or at least, oil's not all of the reason.

I know we get very little of our oil from Saudi. But if Saudi's oil stops flowing for whatever reason or if the amount put to market decreases, oil prices in general will be affected.

272 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:59:02am

re: #270 ggt

Then why do we need the Saud's --to keep the status quo in the ME?

I know there are a lot of large corporations involved in Saudi --what does that translate to in $$$.

273 Leonidas Hoplite  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:00:01am

re: #272 ggt

I know there are a lot of large corporations involved in Saudi --what does that translate to in $$$.

Lots and lots of campaign contributions.

274 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:00:19am

re: #273 Leonidas Hoplite

Lots and lots of campaign contributions.

ah!

275 Flyers1974  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:00:26am

re: #270 ggt

Then why do we need the Saud's --to keep the status quo in the ME?

But for oil, the Saudi's would be chilling out in the desert. I'm pretty sure they've admitted that themselves.

276 Flyovercountry  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:00:38am

re: #264 Flyers1974

I don't think its a matter of any president's fortitude regarding Saudi, but rather the our failure to become less dependent on oil. Until that happens, the Saudis have the better hand.

It's entirely about fortitude. Sometimes, as with all of us who want longterm success in life, the difficult decision must be made. Short term sacrifice for the betterment of a longterm result. It is no different for nations either. If we were to stop importing oil, watch how quickly we would stick two pipe in North Dakota, Alaska, Colorado, and the Ocean to start producing our own. Americans have a long history of achievement, which sometimes needs to be awakened, but it is there.

277 poteen  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:01:35am

re: #266 Kosh's Shadow

It will definitely improve his public speaking capabilities. His addresses would become shorter and to the point if he had to hurry back to the bunker.

278 Randall Gross  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:02:27am

re: #270 ggt

Then why do we need the Saud's --to keep the status quo in the ME?

The huge price spike from their oil going off market would create world wide impacts, several countries would quickly be thrown into depressions, longer term effects would be hunger, increased prices on all goods, etc. Europe and the subcontinent would suffer quite a bit.

You also have to remember transport - there are flavors of crude, and light sweet is needed for most refineries to make gas and diesel. Then there's air diesel, and shipping diesel to think on.

279 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:04:39am

They finally have the 'Smoking Gun' on Climate Change!!
Indictments are looming!
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

280 Leonidas Hoplite  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:04:51am

re: #276 Flyovercountry

It's entirely about fortitude. Sometimes, as with all of us who want longterm success in life, the difficult decision must be made. Short term sacrifice for the betterment of a longterm result. It is no different for nations either. If we were to stop importing oil, watch how quickly we would stick two pipe in North Dakota, Alaska, Colorado, and the Ocean to start producing our own. Americans have a long history of achievement, which sometimes needs to be awakened, but it is there.

Not feeling very hopey over here after the water shut-off in California.

281 Flyers1974  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:05:18am

re: #276 Flyovercountry

It's entirely about fortitude. Sometimes, as with all of us who want longterm success in life, the difficult decision must be made. Short term sacrifice for the betterment of a longterm result. It is no different for nations either. If we were to stop importing oil, watch how quickly we would stick two pipe in North Dakota, Alaska, Colorado, and the Ocean to start producing our own. Americans have a long history of achievement, which sometimes needs to be awakened, but it is there.

In the meantime, I think this would result in some major damage to world economy.

282 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:05:46am

re: #278 Thanos

The huge price spike from their oil going off market would create world wide impacts, several countries would quickly be thrown into depressions, longer term effects would be hunger, increased prices on all goods, etc. Europe and the subcontinent would suffer quite a bit.

You also have to remember transport - there are flavors of crude, and light sweet is needed for most refineries to make gas and diesel. Then there's air diesel, and shipping diesel to think on.

If the US pissed off the Saudis, they wouldn't take their oil off the market, just refuse to sell it to us. They need the money, or the princes need the money for their high-flying lifestyle.

There would still be enough oil on the market, so there wouldn't be a spike.

But the Saudis could decide to boycott the US and US companies. That would hurt the economy.

283 bofhell  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:13:39am

re: #282 Kosh's Shadow

If the US pissed off the Saudis, they wouldn't take their oil off the market, just refuse to sell it to us. They need the money, or the princes need the money for their high-flying lifestyle.

There would still be enough oil on the market, so there wouldn't be a spike.

But the Saudis could decide to boycott the US and US companies. That would hurt the economy.

While I would not want to underestimate the degree to which the US economy and the Saudi economy of intertwined, I would point out that both China and India are becoming significant consumers of oil and energy.

284 Flyers1974  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:13:56am

re: #282 Kosh's Shadow

If the US pissed off the Saudis, they wouldn't take their oil off the market, just refuse to sell it to us. They need the money, or the princes need the money for their high-flying lifestyle.

There would still be enough oil on the market, so there wouldn't be a spike.

But the Saudis could decide to boycott the US and US companies. That would hurt the economy.

And the US would have to severely piss off the Saudis for them to take harsh punitive measures (for the reason you stated but also because construction would halt.) But in order for the US to "get tough" with the Saudis as some suggest, we'd have to severely piss them off. I don't think the Saudis would return to being date merchants, but they could cause serious problems by halting oil for even a few months.

285 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:15:15am

re: #282 Kosh's Shadow

If the US pissed off the Saudis, they wouldn't take their oil off the market, just refuse to sell it to us. They need the money, or the princes need the money for their high-flying lifestyle.

There would still be enough oil on the market, so there wouldn't be a spike.

But the Saudis could decide to boycott the US and US companies. That would hurt the economy.

IIRC, the strategic oil reserve has enough for the US to run for a year. Do we still have that $2Trillion that Reagan forced the Saud's to "invest" in the US for safe-keeping? Wouldn't that buy enough for us to get thru 'til we got our own oil production up and running and possible non-oil sources?

286 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:16:13am

re: #283 bofhell

While I would not want to underestimate the degree to which the US economy and the Saudi economy of intertwined, I would point out that both China and India are becoming significant consumers of oil and energy.

Yes, so the Saudis would be able to sell their oil.
The problem might not be that we couldn't get Saudi oil, but that their oil money would stop flowing in our direction.

287 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:17:07am

Gotta go again,

have a great day all!

288 Flyers1974  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:18:05am

re: #285 ggt

IIRC, the strategic oil reserve has enough for the US to run for a year. Do we still have that $2Trillion that Reagan forced the Saud's to "invest" in the US for safe-keeping? Wouldn't that buy enough for us to get thru 'til we got our own oil production up and running and possible non-oil sources?

The US also does a good amount of construction and architectual work in Saudi. Not to mention that Saudi was a huge (I believe the biggest) importer of used cars in the world. And they like US cars.

289 Bob Levin  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:28:22am

I'm now convinced that being a lawyer should disqualify someone for the office of the Presidency. History is good. Economics, good. Law, not good. Anyone have any idea how the Ottoman Empire got to be so large? New ruler, fight a war, gain territory. And wasn't that successful? Fabulous system, always works. Until 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973. We could look at the formation of France and Germany in the same light. Not to mention Great Britain and the US. But if Israel is attacked and can defend herself, 2000 years of precedent regarding conflict are suddenly nullified. Regarding oil politics, which is what this is really about, there is new technology regarding batteries, solar, and the old nuclear energy that France finds effective that could change. Wait, let's modify the rules regarding conflict and add Rome and Greece. Now there's 4000 years of precedent that are perfectly good for everyone else but the Jews.

290 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:31:28am

re: #288 Flyers1974
It's also where most stolen classics and exotics end up too...

291 tradewind  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:32:34am

re: #289 Bob Levin

Many, if not most attorneys, certainly the ones in my family, have backgrounds in either history, economics, or both. In America, a J.D is post graduate, and excepting English, history and political science are the most common pre-law bachelor's degrees.

292 Bob Levin  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:32:38am

Also, this idea that the problem can be solved by creating two ghettos is completely insane. A 'free and independent Palestinian State' means an area where Jews aren't allowed to live. If there is genuine security and peace, you don't need to make this very small area of land into another East and West Berlin. Should be more like New York and New Jersey. I'm sure there are better analogies...

293 Bob Levin  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:35:47am

#291--Tradewinds

Yes, that's true. I said that tongue in cheek, tasting a grain of salt. It's the idea that you can solve a problem simply by enacting a law and ignoring all of those other areas that attorneys study to get into law school.

294 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:36:05am
295 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:37:42am

re: #263 poteen

Khadafi is probably quite aware that we've got plenty of military hardware that would render pretty much any enemy of the US a smoking ruin if we put our collective mind to it (and the political will to back up said decision) if that were our objective.

But our objective these days is to fight wars humanely, so massive firepower and those weapons that can deliver precision munitions are now tasked to minimize collateral damage and civilian casualties - going so far as to put our own forces in trouble when coming under fire from areas filled with civilians. Our enemies (jihadis, Taliban, terrorists) use our own moral and ethical codes - as compiled into the rules of engagement against us. Our morality and ethics - the way we hold fire because children are in range of our weapons even as we see video of them assisting in preparing IEDs - is used against us.

But that doesn't take away the fact that these evil regimes, led by dictators and despots, would love to get their hands on these same technologies to put to their own nefarious needs.

re: #292 Bob Levin
No where else in the world is the need for ethnic cleansing required to create a state - and yet that is what the Palestinians demand in sum and substance. They want a Jewish free land to call their own, and needed all Israelis to vacate Gaza, and the same with the West Bank territories under their civil administration control (as since 1994 in fact). Israelis who end up in PA territories put their lives at risk, and it is a criminal act for Israelis to be found in PA administered territory. Israeli Arabs have all the rights of Jewish Israelis, except they do not serve in the military. They can vote, create political parties, and engage in debate in the Knesset, but that is something you will never see from the PA, which continues to treat Jews as verboten.

296 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:39:25am

re: #292 Bob Levin

Also, this idea that the problem can be solved by creating two ghettos is completely insane. A 'free and independent Palestinian State' means an area where Jews aren't allowed to live. If there is genuine security and peace, you don't need to make this very small area of land into another East and West Berlin. Should be more like New York and New Jersey. I'm sure there are better analogies...

I agree. And the same people who find nothing wrong with a Jew-free "Palestine" would scream if Israel sent Arabs there. Not saying they should, though, I'm saying the "Palestinians" should be condemned for not allowing Jews in "their" land.

297 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:39:32am
298 Genosaurer  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:54:52am

re: #292 Bob Levin

Also, this idea that the problem can be solved by creating two ghettos is completely insane. A 'free and independent Palestinian State' means an area where Jews aren't allowed to live.

This statement is wrong on so many levels that I am honestly finding it hard to come up with a civil response.

299 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:56:24am

re: #298 Genosaurer

This statement is wrong on so many levels that I am honestly finding it hard to come up with a civil response.

Try. I for one, am interested in what you come up with.

300 Cygnus  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:04:50am

re: #158 sattv4u2

someone throw a shoe at him!

Preferably one that's been well-coated with pig s**t first.

301 Eowyn2  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:07:36am

re: #13 Walter L. Newton

"Yesterday, I had a constructive meeting with Prime Minister Netanyahu and President Abbas. We have made some progress."

Unless I am not listening to the radio properly, I heard that there was NO progress, on either side. What gives?

they're now on a first name basis and have agreed to lemonade as the choice of drink. Dinner menu has not yet been decided.

302 Cygnus  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:10:48am

re: #253 Kosh's Shadow

I suggest we move to the quatloo standard.

Or go with Knuts, Sickles, and Galleons. Available at your local Gringotts branch.

303 D.C. Law  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:10:55am

Unfortunately, Khaddafi is really not so much nuttier than the perverts who run Saudi or the genocidal doinks who are in charge in Gaza and the West Bank. Have you listened to a Saudi religious sermon lately?

304 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:11:51am

re: #302 Cygnus

Or go with Knuts, Sickles, and Galleons. Available at your local Gringotts branch.

Did Gringott's get a bailout?
Well, maybe when their tunnels flooded.

305 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:13:14am

re: #304 Kosh's Shadow

Did Gringott's get a bailout?
Well, maybe when their tunnels flooded.

Thier tunnelsd flooded --I thought they had super security spells covering that? Oh, wait, I remember.

306 Mr Chompers  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:14:01am

I wish President O would just call Andadinnerjacket and Kadafi what the really are a**holes.

307 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:18:39am

The language from O is more than a little disturbing.

Peace is impossible as long that the Arabs do not want peace and cutting Israel up in order to make a contiguous Palestine is not something Israel can afford to do.

Exactly why does a former piece of Jordan have a right to be attached to a former piece of Egypt? Obama has no right to demand such a thing.

Further, exactly how will this pipe dream work when Hamas and Iran are in charge of Gaza and there is no actual peace that could be delivered under any terms even if Abbas wanted one.

308 D.C. Law  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:21:46am

Seriously, though, Obama's speech represents a sad watershed. He is rapidly moving to throw Israel under the bus. This should not be a surprise, the warning signs were all there (i.e. Rev. Wright/Khaladi/Brezinski) but too many people closed their eyes and closed their ears. Right after the election, the word went out that Israeli companies working on DOD contracts would all be "re-assessed" (i.e. terminated). Dennis Ross, hardly a right-wing supporter of Israel, was effectively fired. The anti-Semites and left-wing nuts, aided and abetted by a few token Jews ("capos" they would have been called in another time, and yes Rahm Emanuel, that means you) are going to do whatever they can to destroy the Zionist enterprise.

All Israel and her friends can do is hunker down, fight like hell, and pray for salvation.

309 Eowyn2  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:29:47am

re: #246 lawhawk

To recap Khadafi's craziness:
Pharmaceutical companies create viruses in order to then sell vaccinations.
Jack Ruby's killing of Lee Harvey Oswald needs to be investigated.
Questioned the US war in Afghanistan.
Called Iraq War the mother of all evils.
Questioned the legitimacy of the Security Council permanent member vetoes, claiming their illegitimacy because the Charter claims that all nations are equal.
UN failed to stop 65 wars.

I'm sure a few of his more memorable phrases got lost in translation, but Ahmadinejad is going to have a hard time topping this craziness.

C'mon hawk, he''s up there as the "king of kings" of course he has to be right.

310 Sacred Plants  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:47:58am

When only the Permanent Observer of the Holy See remains listening, does this make the event a confession in the formal sense of the term?

311 jayzee  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:55:08am
The United States does Israel no favors when we fail to couple an unwavering commitment to its security with an insistence that Israel respect the legitimate claims and rights of the Palestinians. And nations within this body do the Palestinians no favors when they choose vitriolic attacks over a constructive willingness to recognize Israel’s legitimacy, and its right to exist in peace and security.

Wanna bet what happens first? Will American support for Israel waiver or will the Arab world abandon "vitriolic attacks" in favor of peace. What odds do you think they're giving in Vegas?

312 borgcube  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:07:06pm

What is up with Gadhafi's face? Geesh, is that what desert tent living does for one's complexion? Did he sneak over here earlier and visit Mickey Rourke's plastic surgeon? Yikes.

313 Creeping Eruption  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:10:08pm

re: #312 borgcube

What is up with Gadhafi's face? Geesh, is that what desert tent living does for one's complexion? Did he sneak over here earlier and visit Mickey Rourke's plastic surgeon? Yikes.

As someone else here mentioned, he looked like a claymation character.

314 borgcube  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:13:44pm

re: #313 Creeping Eruption

Missed that one. #35- Perfect description.

315 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:21:28pm

re: #147 buzzsawmonkey

Rule of thumb is, Jews never gain title, Arabs never lose title.

I heard an interview two weeks ago given by Israel's Nobel Prize winner in Economics, who mentioned that the warped financial incentives and feeling of being backed up by Uncle Sam will bring on a repeat performance of the economic disaster. He mentioned that this incentive structure needs to change.

My thinking is that this financial example relates to your "never gain title, never lose title" concept perfectly. When the incentives are warped, the conflict continues in perpetuity. Ironically, international support for Israeli gains in war would bring peace closer.

316 samsgran1948  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:27:56pm

re: #28 Baier

Keeping the land will not solve the problem. Israel will have to give up something, sorry to say, but it's being asked to give up far to much right now - mainly a guarantee of security.

Israel really needs to get out front on this issue. First thing she needs to do is start hammering away at the number of Jews expelled from Arab countries following partition, point out how much longer those Jews had existed in those lands that the so-called "Palestinians" lived in what is now Israel, and demand a special UN agency exclusively for Jewish refugees from Arab countries. Secondly, she needs to hammer away at the full borders of the original Palestinian Mandate, and how four fifths of it was stolen from Israel by the Arabs.
Unfortunately, the West just doesn't want to hear the truth. It is ever so much more fashionable to embrace Arab lies.

317 flyovercountry  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:46:41pm

re: #281 Flyers1974

In the meantime, I think this would result in some major damage to world economy.

What you are advocating is projecting abject weakness, because we are afraid that the Saudis will cut of their noses to spite their faces. This may be, but the end result and truth is that we have the oil here, to replace what they refuse to sell us, plus restocked reserves, thanks to the previous administration.

318 Mike in Boulder  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:50:41pm

Perhaps the UN will develop a bat problem during Ahmadinejad's speech. That would be cool.

319 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:51:43pm

Anybody walk out on Dinnerjacket?

320 arielle  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:59:12pm

re: #14 Dark_Falcon

I know...I just thought it should it be said.

And darn it! I really thought I would get a chance to be a part of a thread. But then my daughter woke up and started crying for me, so life calls...next time!

321 Land Shark  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:49:02pm

Charles said:

"And again, there’s a serious problem that no one wants to examine: the continued rejection of Israel’s right to exist, not just from Palestinians, but from the entire Arab world. For Obama to paint this as a simple matter of moral equivalence, with both sides equally to blame and both sides equally interested in finding a resolution, is simply wrong. Unfortunately, this state of denial has dominated US policy for many years, and shows no sign of ending any time soon."

Right on! And that's the heart of the matter. I'm firmly convinced Israel has made a real effort to make peace and accommodate the Palestinians. But as long as the Palestinians continue to not recognize Israel, and make every effort to demonize and destroy the country, how can anyone with a brain expect peace? You can re-start, jump-start, false-start all the peace processes you want and nothing will happen unless this part of the equation changes. It would be nice if a US President would finally grow a pair and tell the Palestinians what they need to be told. Probably wouldn't change anything, though.

HEY! Charles Johnson for Middle East Envoy! Just kidding, Charles, I wouldn't wish that crazy mess on anybody.

322 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:59:54pm

Yesterday i was watching Bibi Netanyahu with Wolfgang Blitzer on CNN and Blitzer asked Bibi if he "trusted" President Obama. Interestingly, Bibi said a lot of nice things about President Obama, but he did not say "yes" to the question.

323 Land Shark  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 2:27:04pm

re: #265 Wendya

Correct. He wanted to run a referendum to remove term limits so he could run for President again. When the Honduran Legislature and Supreme Court rejected his attempts, he had his good buddy Hugo "Little Fidel" Chavez send him ballots and equipment so he could run the referendum himself in violation of Honduran law and in defiance of the Legislature and Supreme Court. Thus he was lawfully removed from office. By members of his own party, by the way. His replacement is from his own party, even.

I work for a company that does a lot of business in Honduras and all the Hondurans I've spoken to are proud of their country and say the right thing was done when they removed him from office. They claim their democracy and laws worked and I agree.

324 Land Shark  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 2:39:48pm

I just finished reading some excerpts of Khadaffy Duck's, er, ahem, "speech." Did he really say another investigation of the JFK assasination is needed and the reasons he gave for it? Or has The Onion struck again???

325 Earth56  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 2:54:54pm

I just heard Obamas UN speech and I have one thing to say to Mr Kumbayah.

Shove it !

326 Buck  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 3:15:31pm

Obama's speech at the UN was a continuation of the Egypt speech.

No mention of Terrorism in relation to the Palestinians. "Incitement" to violence, that is how we describe rockets into civilian cities. Only to once again make killing jews equal to building settlements. Worse, this time he didn't say Westbank settlements, but referred to ALL settlements, even those in east Jerusalem. Remember Obama is very good with words. He doesn't forget to say Westbank accidentally.

No Preconditions, and then lists conditions... actually lists the results of the negotiation. As if he was the negotiator for the Palestinians, and this was his opening statement.

And what about HAMAS? Who should Israel start negotiating with? Fatah? Can they speak for Palestinians? No... Clearly not.

Today, I really hate this guy.

327 Buck  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 3:23:18pm

re: #264 Flyers1974

Most of imported US oil comes from Canada. If what you say is true, you would think that is who's ass the President would be kissing.

328 RexMundi  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 4:05:26pm

I strongly dislike of Muammar Gadafi. I'll leave it at that.

329 Yankee  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 4:34:00pm

Israel needs to start playing hardball on the political scene instead of sitting there like a punching bag and allowing ever more shrill and unreasonable demands go unchallenged. If it is an "obstacle to peace" for a Jew to build a home for his family inside his ancestral homeland of Judea and Samaria, then it is equally an obstacle to peace for any Arab to build a home inside of Israel. For every Jewish home that is identified for destruction, and for every Jew targeted for eviction from a future "Palestine", Israel should require the "Palestinian" leadership to identify an Arab house and Arab family for removal from Israel. If 800,000 "Palestinians" want right of return, then that should be conditional on 800,000 Jews being allowed to return to their ancestral homelands of Judea and Samaria. If they want Jerusalem as their capital, then we can demand for Tehran as ours (after all, I believe that it’s the 328th most holy site in Judaism). Who could argue with such fairness?.

330 mrclark  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:00:22pm

re: #12 Baier

Why no insist that Gaza and the West bank be incorporated into the countries they belong to, Egypt and Jordan? Problem solved.

Because besides the fact that Israel wouldn't let it go without a quid pro quo, Egypt and Jordan don't want the (Palestinians) land. It's better like it is now, so the Arab world will be able to continue the (hate) grudge against Israel.

331 Colin Nelson  Thu, Sep 24, 2009 8:35:53am

#212 SF Zionist

"-a tribal tiff or something.-"

Did I miss your sarc tag?

Judging from the initial thoughts in your post, you must certainly know the facts and details of the Sab/Sha event.

What am I to take from your, "tribal tiff" throw-away?

Why so dismissive?


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