McCain’s Senior Adviser: Palin Candidacy Would Be ‘Catastrophic’

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Steve Schmidt, former top campaign strategist for John McCain, said today that if Sarah Palin becomes the GOP nominee for President in 2012, it would be “catastrophic” for the party.

“I think that she has talents, but my honest view is that she would not be a winning candidate for the Republican Party in 2012, and in fact, were she to be the nominee, we would have a catastrophic election result.”

“In the year since the election has ended, she has done nothing to expand her appeal beyond the base … The independent vote is going to be up for grabs in 2012. That middle of the electorate is going to be determinative of the outcome of the elections. I just don’t see that if you look at the things she has done over the year… that she is going to expand that base in the middle.”

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386 comments
1 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:32:58pm

I have to agree. However, it might just be the best way to discredit the religious right.

2 Kragar  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:33:17pm

There’s not a snowballs chance in hell of her becoming the 2012 nominee

3 filetandrelease  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:33:37pm

He may be right, but then again his record isn’t one to stand on.

4 Haole  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:33:53pm

Because he knows how to run a Good campaign.

5 jaunte  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:34:03pm

I hope there is no serious risk of this happening.

6 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:34:16pm

Shades of Mondale comes to mind.

7 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:35:17pm

re: #6 Sharmuta

Shades of Mondale comes to mind.

And all I can think of is the color puce.

8 rwmofo  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:35:17pm

What are the odds this guy hit on Sarah about a year ago and got hit with the 10’ pole?

9 Locker  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:35:32pm

If the GOP didn’t notice how many independents they lost running her for VP they are going to be shocked by how many they lose if they run her as a the Presidential candidate. It seems it would be very, very unlikely that she could win.

10 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:35:38pm

re: #6 Sharmuta

Shades of Mondale comes to mind.

And as with Mondale, if you want to thoroughly discredit something, sometimes it is best to let them run and fail in the most spetacular fashion possible.

11 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:35:39pm

That’ll get the nut-base riled.

It won’t matter, though: They already have a better candidate though in Pawlenty, who has recruited some heavyweight Bush era campaign strategists for his own ‘12 bid. If anything, Pawlenty is more supportive than Palin of the nutjob agenda but he can seem sane in front of media cameras if they aren’t paying too much attention to what he is saying.

12 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:35:42pm
In the year since the election has ended, she has done nothing to expand her appeal beyond the base …

This is true. You can’t win without the middle, and she’s done nothing to appeal to them. In fact, just the opposite- she’s alienated many of them with her fear mongering.

13 filetandrelease  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:35:48pm

re: #2 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

There’s not a snowballs chance in hell of her becoming the 2012 nominee

Be careful there, she is going rogue.
/

14 jaunte  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:35:54pm

re: #8 rwmofo

Vanishingly low.

15 MJ  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:36:02pm

Steve Schmidt also said he is for gay marriage so I doubt his influence among the Republican faithful is minimal at best:

Steve Schmidt, Sen. John McCain’s chief strategist during the presidential campaign, said in a recent interview with the Washington Blade that he supports gay marriage.
“I’m personally supportive of [marriage] equality for gay couples and I believe that it will happen over time,” he told the newspaper. “I think that more and more Americans are insistent that, at a minimum, gay couples should be treated with respect and when they see a political party trying to stigmatize a group of people who are hardworking, who play by the rules, who raise decent families, they’re troubled by it.


Read more at: [Link: www.huffingtonpost.com…]

16 bofhell  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:36:07pm

Palin can be an electrifying speaker with a clear ability to bring people to the ballot box. Unfortunately for the GOP, and sadly for a person of Ms. Palin’s ability to reach out to parts of the electorate, I don’t believe the people coming to the ballot box would be voting for her.

/JustMyTwoBits

17 Ojoe  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:36:09pm

How can you have a middle class without a middle party?

Modern Whig Party

18 Cato the Elder  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:36:52pm

Heh.

19 Cato the Elder  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:37:03pm

And once more:

Heh.

20 SecondComing  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:37:16pm

re: #17 Ojoe

How can you have a middle class without a middle party?

Modern Whig Party

Not again.

21 baier  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:37:26pm

I have to agree. Her political career is over, fair or not. She has weaknesses and was absolutely the victim of a political hit job, but that is what politics is, trial by fire, and she cracked.

22 Cato the Elder  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:37:34pm

Heh.
Heh.
Heh.
Heh.
Heh.
Heh.
Heh.
Heh.
Heh.
Heh.
Heh.
Heh.
Heh.
Heh.
Heh.
Heh.

23 rwmofo  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:37:43pm

Palin haters emerge in 3…2…1…

24 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:38:12pm

re: #5 jaunte

I hope there is no serious risk of this happening.

It doesn’t look that way. Palin seems to be intent on cashing in on her 15 minutes worth of fame before the spotlight fades, and there is every indication that such fading is happening even more rapidly than was once thought. She’s not having any luck booking lectures, and her book publication has been moved up by more than six months - in the publishing industry, this is normally done to reap sales while it’s still possible to do so, and the publisher’s calculus has shown that by spring she’ll be sale rack material.

I expect she’ll poison the GOP’s well badly for the midterms, and then begin her career as a footnote.

25 Ojoe  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:38:19pm

re: #20 SecondComing

About once a day. Don’t click on it if you don’t want.

But I’ve had it with both major parties.

26 lawhawk  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:38:31pm

I’m sure that’s a completely unbiased position he’s coming from. McCain’s people ran a horrid campaign and once Palin was on board, many came to despise her and undermined their own election efforts.

That doesn’t mean that she’d be the best that the GOP has to offer or would be good for the GOP’s long term efforts.

Who among the GOP will stand up and get the rest of the party to figure out that ODS isn’t going to win them the election - but fiscal discipline, national security, and economic security? Where is the leadership? We keep seeing how Obama can’t actually lead - to actually govern, even with majorities in the House and Senate. Why would the GOP want to put someone into that position with similar inexperience?

27 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:39:55pm

I lost all respect for Sarah Palin (and I didn’t have much left at that point anyway) when she resigned in the middle of her elected term.

You just don’t do that.

And then when she came up with the “death panel” thing, and used her own child to hype this fear-mongering bullshit, that lack of respect went deeply into the negative category.

I’ll never vote for Sarah Palin for anything, ever again.

28 SecondComing  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:40:10pm

re: #25 Ojoe

About once a day. Don’t click on it if you don’t want.

But I’ve had it with both major parties.

haha sorry man, not hating on you. Just a gut reaction. You post that all the time.

29 Kragar  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:40:11pm

re: #18 Cato the Elder

Heh.

Speaking of Heh

Michael Moore used non-union labor to film anti-capitalism movie

30 Plato  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:40:44pm

So it’s Huckabee, Romney, and Pawlenty right now.

I really liked Romney after Thompson fizzled out last time.

But a lot of people aren’t impressed with Romney and I can’t figure out why?

31 VioletTiger  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:40:54pm

re: #5 jaunte

I hope there is no serious risk of this happening.

I honestly don’t think she has any intention of seeking an office. Look for her as a radio or tv host instead.

32 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:40:54pm

The only Republican candidate I’ve heard of that could win in 2012 is Romney; the others are too far right. (But then, we thought Obama was too far left; thee MSM convinced enough voters otherwise.)
And even then, it is hard to defeat an incumbent. I really don’t want to wish on the country the kinds of things that would assure a Republican victory; I am thinking of the way things were under Carter. Or worse, a nuclear terrorist attack on the US, G-d forbid.

33 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:40:59pm

re: #17 Ojoe

How can you have a middle class without a middle party?

Modern Whig Party

Someone should form the Modern Mherkin party.

34 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:41:03pm

re: #9 Locker

If the GOP didn’t notice how many independents they lost running her for VP they are going to be shocked by how many they lose if they run her as a the Presidential candidate. It seems it would be very, very unlikely that she could win.

Never underestimate populism. I also doubt she’s viable, but the right circumstances - say, for instance, if the recession double-dips - could make simplistic platitudes very attractive.

35 Gearhead  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:41:07pm

I’m so glad McCain’s people and Palin’s people have patched things up. It reflects so well on the Party.

///

The GOP really needs to find it’s voice pronto.

Maybe I should start on that book…

36 Ojoe  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:41:22pm

re: #28 SecondComing

Trying to change some of the political direction in this country, I am.

/Yoda off

37 middy  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:41:38pm

re: #27 Charles

I lost all respect for Sarah Palin (and I didn’t have much left at that point anyway) when she resigned in the middle of her elected term.

She lost me at creationism…

38 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:41:45pm

re: #30 Plato

So it’s Huckabee, Romney, and Pawlenty right now.

I really liked Romney after Thompson fizzled out last time.

But a lot of people aren’t impressed with Romney and I can’t figure out why?

What about Guliani?

39 Randall Gross  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:41:53pm

re: #26 lawhawk

I have to give John McCain some credit today - he’s persistent and still trying. That’s more than I can say for many.

[Link: www.politicsdaily.com…]

40 Lawrior  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:42:10pm

re: #27 Charles

Agree.
I wanted to believe in her. I really did. And every time she opened her mouth, she would either a) spout off a canned line, b) make herself look foolish, or c) both.

41 rwmofo  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:42:19pm

re: #27 Charles

“I’ll never vote for Sarah Palin for anything, ever again.”

How about if it’s Palin vs. Al Franken?

42 Kragar  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:43:00pm

re: #41 rwmofo

“I’ll never vote for Sarah Palin for anything, ever again.”

How about if it’s Palin vs. Al Franken?

Ron Paul

43 filetandrelease  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:43:02pm

re: #37 middy

She lost me at creationism…

Me too, and I was really trying to stay with her.

44 Haole  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:43:09pm

re: #27 Charles

I lost all respect for Sarah Palin (and I didn’t have much left at that point anyway) when she resigned in the middle of her elected term.

You just don’t do that.

And then when she came up with the “death panel” thing, and used her own child to hype this fear-mongering bullshit, that lack of respect went deeply into the negative category.

I’ll never vote for Sarah Palin for anything, ever again.

Ever again???/ Do you live in Alaska?

45 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:43:24pm

re: #29 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Speaking of Heh

Michael Moore used non-union labor to film anti-capitalism movie

Speaking of which, how’s the film doing? I haven’t heard jack about it since it’s release. Has it tanked, like Moore’s last effort?

People may be sick of hearing the same note played over and over and over again.

46 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:43:31pm

re: #33 Mad Al-Jaffee

Someone should form the Modern Mherkin party.

It could run Merkin Muffley.
And he’d have that strange German science advisor…

47 SecondComing  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:43:36pm

re: #30 Plato

So it’s Huckabee, Romney, and Pawlenty right now.

I really liked Romney after Thompson fizzled out last time.

But a lot of people aren’t impressed with Romney and I can’t figure out why?

He has two problems:

1. He comes across as phony and plastic like a Ken doll
2. He’s a mormon. (not a problem to me but really riles some people up)

48 Randall Gross  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:43:54pm

Here’s the full politico article on McCain, he’s doing more for the Republican party than the loudmouthed pundits are:

[Link: www.politico.com…]

49 dugmartsch  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:44:00pm

Disasterous not because she’s an unserious anti-intellectual nutjob but because she would lose.

Way to go out on a limb.

50 baier  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:44:09pm

re: #39 Thanos

I have to give John McCain some credit today - he’s persistent and still trying. That’s more than I can say for many.

[Link: www.politicsdaily.com…]

Whether or not you agree he should have been the candidate, you have to admit McCain is a very special person.

51 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:44:14pm

re: #38 Mad Al-Jaffee

What about Guliani?

After the way he lost in 08, I’m not sure he’d actually run.

52 Cato the Elder  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:44:31pm

re: #29 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Speaking of Heh

Michael Moore used non-union labor to film anti-capitalism movie

I’m not surprised. I like Moore less than Palin.

53 SecondComing  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:44:31pm

re: #36 Ojoe

Trying to change some of the political direction in this country, I am.

/Yoda off

I feel your pain. Just don’t go Ron Paul on us or anything.

54 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:44:45pm

re: #44 Haole

Ever again???/ Do you live in Alaska?

Did you forget about that little Presidential election we just had?

55 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:44:56pm

re: #29 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Speaking of Heh

Michael Moore used non-union labor to film anti-capitalism movie

Moore is a epitome of hypocrisy. He makes a ton of money off selling his films via capitalism while criticizing that very capitalism in his films.
Why do people even give him the time of day?
Unfortunately, people pay these “documentary” filmakers far more attention than they deserve.

56 Locker  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:44:59pm

re: #45 SixDegrees

Speaking of which, how’s the film doing? I haven’t heard jack about it since it’s release. Has it tanked, like Moore’s last effort?

People may be sick of hearing the same note played over and over and over again.

72% Fresh on Rotten Tomatoes… that’s pretty good, with regard to how well it’s doing.

[Link:rottentomatoes.com… ]

57 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:45:36pm

Romney/Bloomberg?

58 Locker  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:45:44pm

re: #54 Charles

Did you forget about that little Presidential election we just had?

Or the fact that she could easily do a “Hillary in NY” trick and become the next representative for Alabama or something. They’d be DELIGHTED to have her, in my opinion.

59 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:46:08pm

re: #57 Ben Hur

Romney/Bloomberg?

No, not Bloomberg.

60 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:46:13pm

re: #32 Kosh’s Shadow

The only Republican candidate I’ve heard of that could win in 2012 is Romney; the others are too far right. (But then, we thought Obama was too far left; thee MSM convinced enough voters otherwise.)
And even then, it is hard to defeat an incumbent. I really don’t want to wish on the country the kinds of things that would assure a Republican victory; I am thinking of the way things were under Carter. Or worse, a nuclear terrorist attack on the US, G-d forbid.

I think fiscal responsibility will look damn good in 2012. The American people are not going to tolerate unrestricted spending forever. Candidates who step up and say they’ll work to reduce the deficit and balance the budget will have a strong appeal. The only way the GOP can win in 2010 and 2012 is to return to fiscal responsibility- and I think Romney is the only one who can deliver such a message without the social conservative baggage that frightens moderates and independents.

61 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:47:12pm

re: #59 Honorary Yooper

No, not Bloomberg.

Could appeal to the independents.

62 Randall Gross  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:47:12pm

Haole: I’m from Alaska, I’m a dyed in the wool Republican, and I’ll never vote for Sarah again either.

63 Racer X  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:47:54pm

I won’t vote for Palin again either. But I do not look at her like she is pure evil and worthy of derision. I see her as a like a child beauty queen, dragged by her mother to all the pageants. Everyone tells her how special she is. And she believes them.

64 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:47:58pm

re: #49 dugmartsch

Disasterous not because she’s an unserious anti-intellectual nutjob but because she would lose.

Way to go out on a limb.

I’ve said a number of times that it would be worse if she, or any other GOP-wingnut candidate, actually won. Palin appears to have no chance at all but, depending on events, other nutjob favorites (Pawlenty, Huckabee, etc.) could.

65 poteen  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:48:34pm

re: #58 Locker

Or the fact that she could easily do a “Hillary in NY” trick and become the next representative for Alabama or something. They’d be DELIGHTED to have her, in my opinion.

That may be prescient. No joke.

66 katemaclaren  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:48:44pm

I like Sarah Palin. I think it’s a case of very sour grapes for McCain’s team that she continues to be popular. I pre-ordered her book and would vote for her if she runs—but not in 2012.

But. I don’t think she is interested in remaining a Republican and possibly not even interested in running for any office at all. I happen to know that a local synagogue here tried and tried to get her for a speaking engagement—at a very high price ($75,000)—but her “people” turned it down because her baby was sick. No, this isn’t in the news, but I know it’s true.

67 wrenchwench  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:48:46pm

I have a pseudo-relative near here who had a gallery opening a couple of weeks ago. Some of her stuff was “assemblages”. A lot of them were political. One of them was Sarah Palin. Despite the difficulty of parodying some subjects, this thing was laugh-out-loud funny. Unfortunately, it was indescribable.

68 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:48:53pm

re: #56 Locker

72% Fresh on Rotten Tomatoes… that’s pretty good, with regard to how well it’s doing.

[Link:rottentomatoes.com… ]

I guess I was looking for box office. I’m not at all surprised that it rates highly among those who chose to see it in the first place.

69 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:48:54pm

re: #41 rwmofo

“I’ll never vote for Sarah Palin for anything, ever again.”

How about if it’s Palin vs. Al Franken?

I would rather have Al Franken be President than Sarah Palin. I would rather have Mike Huckabee be President than Sarah Palin.

I would vote for Palin if she were running against David Duke.

70 The Curmudgeon  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:49:32pm

If Palin wins enough of the primaries (assuming she runs) then she’ll be the nominee. It all depends on who else decides to take a shot at it. I don’t think she could beat either Gingrich or Romney, but if they don’t run, I’d prefer Palin to someone like, say, Huckabee.

71 lawhawk  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:49:38pm

re: #57 Ben Hur

Romney/Bloomberg?

Hell. Frackin. No.

And that’s solely because of Bloomberg on the ticket. The man is a nanny stater in the extreme who thinks he can tax and regulate everything you do.

Romney would be more than acceptable - he’s got business and political experience - more than any of the other contenders (practically combined at that). But for Bloomberg’s billions, I doubt he’d have been elected in the first place, and he switched parties to run in NYC, and now is an independent.

72 katemaclaren  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:49:49pm

re: #52 Cato the Elder

I’m with you on Moore. If I were the Red Queen, it would be “off with his head,” - as Lewis Carroll put it so well.

73 wrenchwench  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:50:05pm

re: #66 katemaclaren

I happen to know that a local synagogue here tried and tried to get her for a speaking engagement—at a very high price ($75,000)—but her “people” turned it down because her baby was sick. No, this isn’t in the news, but I know it’s true.

I heard her rate is $100,000. No wonder they couldn’t get her.

74 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:50:07pm

re: #47 SecondComing

He has two problems:

1. He comes across as phony and plastic like a Ken doll
2. He’s a mormon. (not a problem to me but really riles some people up)

He’s bland, but I think he looks like a president.

Mormonism doesn’t bother me, but it clearly is an electoral problem, which really disappoints me.

75 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:50:22pm

re: #61 Ben Hur

Could appeal to the independents.

Bloomberg has hardly been a paragon of fiscal responsibility. He’d turn off many of the people the GOP should attract.

76 katemaclaren  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:50:32pm

re: #69 SanFranciscoZionist

How about Sarah Palin vs. Barbara Boxer or—Nancy Pelosi? …or Cindy Sheehan?

77 middy  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:50:32pm

re: #63 Racer X

I won’t vote for Palin again either. But I do not look at her like she is pure evil and worthy of derision. I see her as a like a child beauty queen, dragged by her mother to all the pageants. Everyone tells her how special she is. And she believes them.

What!? She should be burned at the stake!

I kid… actually, I’d love to go camping with her (wink, wink). As long as we could keep the conversation on hunting and cooking.

78 insert name here  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:50:33pm

re: #60 Sharmuta

I think Romney is the only one who can deliver such a message without the social conservative baggage that frightens moderates and independents.

Didn’t Romney become more socially conservative when he vied for the nomination last election? If I recall, he’d been pro-abortion when in MA, but then came out against it when pitching himself nationally.

(Please correct me if my memory is screwy.)

79 lawhawk  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:50:50pm

re: #51 Kosh’s Shadow

He’s not even sure he wants to run for governor in NY, where he would quite likely win in a walk over Paterson (a run against Cuomo might be a different story - and one that would be one of the more entertaining political battles).

80 Plato  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:51:28pm

Gulliani/Romney ?

81 Kragar  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:51:33pm

re: #56 Locker

72% Fresh on Rotten Tomatoes… that’s pretty good, with regard to how well it’s doing.

[Link:rottentomatoes.com… ]

The “critics” love Moore. He’ll get great reviews, but he’ll do shit at the box office because people don’t want to see his movies.

Me, I’m going to see Zombieland this weekend.

82 transient  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:51:37pm

Quitting your job as governor is not exactly the way to convince the American people of your determination, perseverence, experience, and general qualifications for office.

83 Randall Gross  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:51:38pm

re: #66 katemaclaren

I like Sarah Palin. I think it’s a case of very sour grapes for McCain’s team that she continues to be popular. I pre-ordered her book and would vote for her if she runs—but not in 2012.

But. I don’t think she is interested in remaining a Republican and possibly not even interested in running for any office at all. I happen to know that a local synagogue here tried and tried to get her for a speaking engagement—at a very high price ($75,000)—but her “people” turned it down because her baby was sick. No, this isn’t in the news, but I know it’s true.

I think she will remain Republican, and that she will become a Gingrich like rainmaker: constantly flirting with but not accepting candidacy while raising funds from a segment of the party.

84 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:51:38pm

re: #63 Racer X

I won’t vote for Palin again either. But I do not look at her like she is pure evil and worthy of derision. I see her as a like a child beauty queen, dragged by her mother to all the pageants. Everyone tells her how special she is. And she believes them.

I think there’s something to that, but she’s an adult, which means she really should know better.

85 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:51:47pm

The fact is that the only reason Sarah Palin was picked as McCain’s running mate was to bring the religious right on board. She was amazingly unqualified for the job. But James Dobson and the other leaders of the religious right were vehemently opposed to McCain, and were actually calling on their flocks to NOT vote for him — until McCain picked out Palin.

Palin was everything the religious right wanted — hardcore anti-gay and anti-abortion, a creationist, and a graduate of one of the most fanatical Pentecostal sects in America.

That’s why she was McCain’s running mate. And it backfired on him spectacularly.

86 lawhawk  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:52:01pm

re: #80 Plato

Romney/Giuliani would be better, if Rudy’s ego can handle it (and I think it could).

87 Cato the Elder  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:52:31pm

re: #81 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The “critics” love Moore. He’ll get great reviews, but he’ll do shit at the box office because people don’t want to see his movies.

Me, I’m going to see Zombieland this weekend.

Both The New Yorker and what’s left of my local “newspaper” panned the Moore movie.

88 katemaclaren  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:52:38pm

re: #73 wrenchwench

Well, at the time, they weren’t asking $100,000!!! The $75 thousand was OVER the amount that was the going rate, apparently (some sort of bidding war was going on)—but after checking with the lady, they turned it down.

89 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:52:44pm

re: #60 Sharmuta

I think fiscal responsibility will look damn good in 2012. The American people are not going to tolerate unrestricted spending forever. Candidates who step up and say they’ll work to reduce the deficit and balance the budget will have a strong appeal. The only way the GOP can win in 2010 and 2012 is to return to fiscal responsibility- and I think Romney is the only one who can deliver such a message without the social conservative baggage that frightens moderates and independents.

Yes. He might pander to the social conservatives a bit, but he managed to be governor of Massachusetts, so he can’t be that far off the deep end.

And yes, if the economy isn’t doing that well in 4 years Romney will have a good chance, just not a guarantee.

90 erraticsphinx  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:52:55pm

re: #85 Charles

A billion updings.

91 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:53:19pm

Ok folks, time to shuffle off to Buffalo. Y’all have a wonderful weekend!

92 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:53:21pm

re: #63 Racer X

I won’t vote for Palin again either. But I do not look at her like she is pure evil and worthy of derision. I see her as a like a child beauty queen, dragged by her mother to all the pageants. Everyone tells her how special she is. And she believes them.

Well, isn’t that special.
/channeling Church Lady

93 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:53:25pm

re: #74 SanFranciscoZionist

He’s bland, but I think he looks like a president.

Mormonism doesn’t bother me, but it clearly is an electoral problem, which really disappoints me.

I dunno. I’m warming (slightly) to Romney, but he always look like he’s holding a flashlight under his chin, no matter what the lighting is like. It’s kinda creepy.

I remember when his dad was governor of our fair state. No problems there, and we didn’t plunge into Mormonism as a result.

94 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:53:26pm

re: #76 katemaclaren

How about Sarah Palin vs. Barbara Boxer or—Nancy Pelosi? …or Cindy Sheehan?

I would vote for Boxer or Pelosi without pain.

If Sarah Palin was running against Cindy Sheehan, I would write in for Joe Lieberman, and then pack my bags and make aliyah.

95 katemaclaren  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:53:30pm

re: #81 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yay! I’m with you on that choice. I’ll buy the popcorn!

96 Surabaya Stew  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:53:33pm

re: #60 Sharmuta

I think fiscal responsibility will look damn good in 2012. The American people are not going to tolerate unrestricted spending forever. Candidates who step up and say they’ll work to reduce the deficit and balance the budget will have a strong appeal. The only way the GOP can win in 2010 and 2012 is to return to fiscal responsibility- and I think Romney is the only one who can deliver such a message without the social conservative baggage that frightens moderates and independents.

I concur. Imagine how much closer the 2008 race would have been if McCain had chosen Romney instead of Palin! Seriously, he would have been the only candidate with any business experience, and he may have even swung the election towards the GOP.

97 DaddyG  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:53:34pm

re: #30 Plato

So it’s Huckabee, Romney, and Pawlenty right now.

I really liked Romney after Thompson fizzled out last time.

But a lot of people aren’t impressed with Romney and I can’t figure out why?

Racism/

Seriously- he’s a bit wonky and not polarizing. That isn’t sexy.

98 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:53:45pm

re: #87 Cato the Elder

Both The New Yorker and what’s left of my local “newspaper” panned the Moore movie.

Heh. Nice to see The New Yorker get some sense when deal with a Michael Moore film. Moore’s got more holes in his “facts” than a hunk of Swiss cheese.

99 katemaclaren  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:54:28pm

re: #83 Thanos

Good call.

100 John Neverbend  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:54:38pm

re: #22 Cato the Elder

Heh.
Heh.

I’ll have to call you Ben Heh Heh (Talmudic joke).

101 lawhawk  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:54:58pm

re: #96 Surabaya Stew

Doubtful, but the one thing that totally sunk the McCain campaign was when he suspended the campaign to head to DC to go do the TARP stuff, and tried to cancel the debate, only to turn around and do it.

102 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:55:02pm

re: #78 insert name here

Didn’t Romney become more socially conservative when he vied for the nomination last election? If I recall, he’d been pro-abortion when in MA, but then came out against it when pitching himself nationally.

(Please correct me if my memory is screwy.)

He said, IIRC, that he was personally against abortion but wasn’t going to push to change the status quo, which, I believe, was what he said in Mass.

103 Randall Gross  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:55:04pm

I’m going to stick to my guns on this subject: it’s too early to talk about potentials for 2012, we’ve got special elections in a MONTH that few are paying attention to because they’d rather rehash last election’s gristle, and we have congressional elections in 13 months. Both of those are so much more important than talking 2012 or bashing Obama right now.

104 DaddyG  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:55:06pm

re: #93 SixDegrees

I dunno. I’m warming (slightly) to Romney, but he always look like he’s holding a flashlight under his chin, no matter what the lighting is like. It’s kinda creepy.

I remember when his dad was governor of our fair state. No problems there, and we didn’t plunge into Mormonism as a result.


Good. He doesn’t know about the seekrit Mormon underground cult centers built into the Big Dig and the Pontiac Dome. (Did I type that out loud?) //

105 [deleted]  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:55:07pm
106 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:55:38pm

re: #82 transient

Quitting your job as governor is not exactly the way to convince the American people of your determination, perseverence, experience, and general qualifications for office.

That is a gigantic problem that will haunt any future political positions she tries to run for. Talk about a stone around her neck - that one will sink here. The opposition’s ads and speeches practically write themselves.

107 John Neverbend  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:55:43pm

re: #91 MrSilverDragon

Ok folks, time to shuffle off to Buffalo. Y’all have a wonderful weekend!


You’re not going up the Erie Canal are you? (I’ve been studying about it with my daughter for so many hours, that I’m having nightmares).

108 katemaclaren  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:55:45pm

re: #94 SanFranciscoZionist

San Francisco? Well, I guess you just might vote for those,too. However, I’m working for whoever is running against either one of them—even if it were Roman Polansky.

/

109 Mark Pennington  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:56:05pm

I give McCain a pass on Palin as I believe he was pushed into picking her.

110 [deleted]  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:56:10pm
111 Locker  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:56:16pm

re: #81 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The “critics” love Moore. He’ll get great reviews, but he’ll do shit at the box office because people don’t want to see his movies.

Me, I’m going to see Zombieland this weekend.

I’m looking forward to that and “The Informant”. Let us know how you liked Zombieland (88% Fresh at Rotten Tomatoes baby!).

112 lawhawk  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:56:37pm

re: #103 Thanos

Well, there’s the NJ election coming up in November. That’s a bellweather on whether Obama has coattails, particularly since Corzine has been getting all kinds of help from Obama (and Obama figures prominently in many of Corzine’s ads - the ones where he’s not in full attack Christie mode that is).

113 middy  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:56:40pm

I wish Newt would run. :-(

114 Cato the Elder  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:57:00pm

re: #66 katemaclaren

I like Sarah Palin. I think it’s a case of very sour grapes for McCain’s team that she continues to be popular. I pre-ordered her book and would vote for her if she runs—but not in 2012.

But. I don’t think she is interested in remaining a Republican and possibly not even interested in running for any office at all. I happen to know that a local synagogue here tried and tried to get her for a speaking engagement—at a very high price ($75,000)—but her “people” turned it down because her baby was sick. No, this isn’t in the news, but I know it’s true.

Well, that makes her using her baby as a political tool in the “death panel” affair just peachy-keen, doesn’t it?

115 lawhawk  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:57:00pm

re: #110 buzzsawmonkey

Don’t get me started, my friend. ///ducking

116 poteen  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:57:19pm

re: #55 Honorary Yooper

Moore is a epitome of hypocrisy. He makes a ton of money off selling his films via capitalism while criticizing that very capitalism in his films.
Why do people even give him the time of day?
Unfortunately, people pay these “documentary” filmakers far more attention than they deserve.

He ran a’ two-gater’. Used the actors and directors unions but went non union with the ‘working guys’.
The first group can help get financing. The last is only a cost.
No capitalism there at all./

117 katemaclaren  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:57:29pm

Well, good afternoon everyone. I’m off to the beach. Brrr.

118 katemaclaren  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:57:47pm

re: #111 Locker

Wooo hooo!

119 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:57:48pm

re: #107 John Neverbend

You’re not going up the Erie Canal are you? (I’ve been studying about it with my daughter for so many hours, that I’m having nightmares).

You can always tell your neighbor
You can always tell your pal
If you ever navigated on the Erie Canal:

Youtube Video
120 [deleted]  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:58:11pm
121 Kragar  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:58:13pm

re: #109 beekiller

I give McCain a pass on Palin as I believe he was pushed into picking her.

I sure as hell didn’t vote for McCain because he had chosen her. My reaction to her at the time was “Who the hell? Whatever.” Its gone downhill from there.

122 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:59:16pm

re: #81 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The “critics” love Moore. He’ll get great reviews, but he’ll do shit at the box office because people don’t want to see his movies.

Me, I’m going to see Zombieland this weekend.

It grossed $230K in 4 theaters in one weekend, and it’s going to have a wider release as of today. Like him or hate him, but the film will likely continue to do well.

Also going to see Zombieland this weekend though 8-)

123 dugmartsch  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:59:41pm

What’s scary is that South Carolina comes early enough in the primary cycle and has enough delegates to make her a legitimate candidate for president into early summer. You know she’d have the funds. The only thing saving us from this spectacularly awful scenario is that she can only make like 400k as President and probably sees better cash/attention grabbing opportunities elsewhere.

Here’s hoping.

Maybe we can set up a “Please Don’t Run” foundation and cut her a check when she officially declares against running?

124 DaddyG  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 12:59:47pm

re: #111 Locker

I’m looking forward to that and “The Informant”. Let us know how you liked Zombieland (88% Fresh at Rotten Tomatoes baby!).


I loved the quote from the commercial. “Time to nut up or shut up.” I have been waiting to use it in a conversation.

125 insert name here  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:00:15pm

re: #119 Guanxi88

You can always tell your neighbor
You can always tell your pal
If you ever navigated on the Erie Canal

Thanks for the song! We used to sing this weekly (and other American folk songs) back when I was in grade school in the early 60’s. Wish I had a copy of that songbook…

126 erraticsphinx  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:00:22pm

re: #120 Haole

Where is this?

127 Jack Burton  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:00:32pm

re: #120 Haole

Maybe if you mean the “National Association of Marlon Brando Look Alikes” otherwise I’m pretty sure that is a neutron star dense pile of bullshit.

128 Randall Gross  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:00:38pm

re: #109 beekiller

I give McCain a pass on Palin as I believe he was pushed into picking her.

It was the only way to get certain conservative radio pundits who’d been backbiting him for three years solid to stop it.

129 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:00:53pm

re: #108 katemaclaren

San Francisco? Well, I guess you just might vote for those,too. However, I’m working for whoever is running against either one of them—even if it were Roman Polansky.

/

God willing, he won’t be eligible to run.

130 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:01:00pm

re: #78 insert name here

Didn’t Romney become more socially conservative when he vied for the nomination last election? If I recall, he’d been pro-abortion when in MA, but then came out against it when pitching himself nationally.

(Please correct me if my memory is screwy.)

Unfortunately, the religious right has to be pandered to to an extent. They don’t like Romney- they think Mormons aren’t real Christians, and his winning the nomination might serve as a good catalyst for getting them out of the party (they should go to the Constitution Party anyways). Sadly- they are the ones with much of the volunteer network and money, so yes- I believe he did modify some positions to pander to them. However- that they lost some key states in the South shows that their influence may be waning. I think for those of us who really want to see the religious right’s influence in the party minimized need to rally to Romney now, and start working for securing the people infrastructure he’ll need well before he’ll need it.

131 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:01:27pm

re: #103 Thanos

I’m going to stick to my guns on this subject: it’s too early to talk about potentials for 2012, we’ve got special elections in a MONTH that few are paying attention to because they’d rather rehash last election’s gristle, and we have congressional elections in 13 months. Both of those are so much more important than talking 2012 or bashing Obama right now.

Certainly true. And the midterms are, indeed, terribly important. There’s a real possibility of a significant change then. I read today that Spector’s star is sinking fast - he’s lost 20 points in straw polling in the last few months, and is now the underdog.

Maybe he’ll try to switch parties again.

132 Pullus Iulius  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:01:47pm

Sage advice…Schmidt having been so effective in getting McCain elected.

133 [deleted]  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:02:02pm
134 John Neverbend  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:02:39pm

re: #119 Guanxi88

You can always tell your neighbor
You can always tell your pal
If you ever navigated on the Erie Canal:

Ta. I’ll show this to my little girl.

135 What, me worry?  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:02:42pm

Oh no no no… I’m dying for her to run. I’m praying that she runs. Let her run!!! What better way to insure a Democrat win!

136 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:02:47pm

re: #120 Haole

OT What do you guys think of this?

“Obama’s “Safe Schools Czar” Praised NAMBLA Founder”

This can’t be true.

The way things are going, it almost certainly isn’t true. Character assassination through outright lying seems to be the Right’s favorite tactic these days.

137 poteen  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:02:52pm

re: #69 SanFranciscoZionist

I would rather have Al Franken be President than Sarah Palin. I would rather have Mike Huckabee be President than Sarah Palin.

I would vote for Palin if she were running against David Duke.

Vote for John Belushi instead of Franken. He’ll do the least damage.

138 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:03:01pm

re: #125 insert name here

Thanks for the song! We used to sing this weekly (and other American folk songs) back when I was in grade school in the early 60’s. Wish I had a copy of that songbook…

I was in grade school in the 80s, but same songbook, it sounds like.

139 Plato  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:03:37pm

OK…but if it was Palin VS Obama…that would be another story.

No sitting it out. No voting present. Oil & Gas exploration and Pro Israel VS …well, you can imagine.

140 Randall Gross  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:04:03pm

re: #120 Haole

A religious lobbyist is putting that story out, I’ll wait on it until I see real confirmation in the press.

141 DaddyG  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:04:20pm

re: #130 Sharmuta
Romney actually did well among conservative Christians. Not as well as Huckabee but well enough. The whole Mormon’s arent Real Christians&#8482 thing isn’t likely to draw off too many voters.

142 Surabaya Stew  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:04:22pm

re: #101 lawhawk

re: #110 buzzsawmonkey

Doubtful, but the one thing that totally sunk the McCain campaign was when he suspended the campaign to head to DC to go do the TARP stuff, and tried to cancel the debate, only to turn around and do it.

Plus: bad graphics and too few of them, and reliance on that ultra-lame “maverick” buzzword until you wanted to scream every time you heard it.

Agreed, its not likely that he would have won with Romney, nor did he deserve to win after running a bad campaign, but Bush’s speechwriters would have had to at least vet a election night McCain victory speech! From my understanding, only the Obama victory speech was taken as a possibility…

143 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:04:31pm

Outty.

Hag Sukkot Sameach!

I’m gonna git you Sukkah!

144 Jack Burton  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:04:33pm

re: #130 Sharmuta

I’ve already seen a few Romney 2012 stickers around town. If I was not violently allergic to using my car as a billboard or a soapbox ala the left, I’d get one.

145 [deleted]  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:04:35pm
146 Ed_Gibbon  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:04:47pm

re: #20 SecondComing


“Third parties are like bees: once they have stung, they die.”

147 Flyers1974  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:04:55pm

re: #89 Kosh’s Shadow

Yes. He might pander to the social conservatives a bit, but he managed to be governor of Massachusetts, so he can’t be that far off the deep end.

And yes, if the economy isn’t doing that well in 4 years Romney will have a good chance, just not a guarantee.

Agree. One problem he may have is that he comes across a bit car-salesmanish. And I’m referring to image of course, not necessarily reality. And I’ve heard some suggest that the Christian Right will in some significant number, reject him for religious reasons. Not sure If I buy that, but its a theory.

148 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:05:31pm

re: #145 Haole

Please don’t promote this crappy smear job at LGF.

149 [deleted]  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:06:40pm
150 SecondComing  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:07:08pm

completely OT: Elton John is on the new Alice in Chains album but Layne Staley isn’t. Something I thought I would never see. haha

151 AngusMcP  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:07:12pm

I cannot vote for any ticket that has Palin on it. She had no grasp of any major issue in the 2008 election, and her recent pronouncements show that she still hasn’t learned anything.

152 Jack Burton  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:07:34pm

re: #141 DaddyG

Romney actually did well among conservative Christians. Not as well as Huckabee but well enough. The whole Mormon’s arent Real Christians™ thing isn’t likely to draw off too many voters.

All those Glenn Beck fans would showing colossal cognitive dissonance if they tried that crap.

153 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:08:02pm

re: #130 Sharmuta

However- that they lost some key states in the South

Only one “south” state was lost in the last election

Florida is always a toos up. Norh Carolina is the only one that could be considered “lost”

Image: statemapredbluer1024.png

154 What, me worry?  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:08:34pm

re: #138 SanFranciscoZionist

I was in grade school in the 80s, but same songbook, it sounds like.

Really? I thought you much older. I’m surprised. Total compliment to you, btw :)

155 DaddyG  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:08:39pm

re: #152 ArchangelMichael

All those Glenn Beck fans would showing colossal cognitive dissonance if they tried that crap.

You are making a big assumption about their ability to cognate in the first place. /

156 Mark Pennington  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:09:11pm

re: #121 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I didn’t vote for her either.

157 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:09:24pm

re: #153 sattv4u2

However- that they lost some key states in the South

Only one “south” state was lost in the last election

Florida is always a toos up. Norh Carolina is the only one that could be considered “lost”

[Link: www-personal.umich.edu…]


TOSS ,,, not toos,,, (although toes up is a possibility for the Repubs if they don;’t wake up)

158 SecondComing  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:10:34pm

re: #146 Ed_Gibbon

“Third parties are like bees: once they have stung, they die.”

I am not promoting a third party. Just in case anyone is too lazy to scroll back up and see what I said.

159 What, me worry?  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:10:42pm

re: #150 SecondComing

completely OT: Elton John is on the new Alice in Chains album but Layne Staley isn’t. Something I thought I would never see. haha

I agree it’s odd, eh? But remember that Elton was very cult-like in the 70s. Groundbreaking stuff that was nothing like what was being played at the time. It didn’t even have a category really, all the John/Taupin stuff.

160 Right Brain  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:11:46pm

re: #27 Charles

I lost all respect for Sarah Palin (and I didn’t have much left at that point anyway) when she resigned in the middle of her elected term.

You just don’t do that.

And then when she came up with the “death panel” thing, and used her own child to hype this fear-mongering bullshit, that lack of respect went deeply into the negative category.

I’ll never vote for Sarah Palin for anything, ever again.

She lost me at the Katie Couric interview. What was she thinking? Palin was trained as a journalist, spent four years getting a degree in journalism, worked as a journalist (OK Sport Journalist) for years; and she had no clue of the sort of questions that would be asked of her? What do you read? What would you do with Russia? Have you ever negotiated a foreign treaty? Exactly what questions was she expecting?

161 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:12:08pm

re: #145 Haole

Tenuous, at best. Secondhand, also, a fact which is hidden in order to make the article seem like a first-hand account, a tactic that doesn’t inspire confidence in what follows.

162 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:12:22pm

And NOBODY in 1977 saw the possibility of a President Ronald Reagan. He ran a terrible seat of the pants operation in 1968, lost out to an weak incumbent of his own party in 1976 (As did Sen. Kennedy in 1980), wasn’t doing too well against Bush 41 at the beginning of the primary season. He was the GOP Candidate that the Democratic Party (including myself at the time) wanted to run against as he was the “least electable” - or so we thought.The hand of history intervened - and he was President.
History, as they say does Not Repeat Itself - it does, however often rhyme.
As to looking for a candidate who appeals to “the middle” - Steve Schmitt has it BASS ACKWARDS. Winning a nomination in either major party requires a candidate at least “acceptable/plausible” to that party’s base.
The “Middle” after the nominating process will trend to the candidate who seems right for the times. It was Reagan in 1980, Clinton in 1992, and Obama in 2008, Bush 43 vs. Gore being an effective dead heat. That is all.

-S-

163 Kragar  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:12:32pm

re: #150 SecondComing

completely OT: Elton John is on the new Alice in Chains album but Layne Staley isn’t. Something I thought I would never see. haha

The fact Staley’s been dead for 7 years might explain why he isn’t on the album. Don’t know why Elton John is on it though.

164 DaddyG  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:13:07pm

I still think a lot of the polarized radical stuff is natural after a loss. The bulk of conservatives (the non-droolers) were not excited about our prospects in the 2008 elections. It was hard to rally in those circumstances. The Dems have lived through similar transitions and behaved similarly.

I expect some sanity to be expressed closer to the 2010 and 2012 elections as the people with real lives (not rent a mobs and pundits) get closer to making their election decisions.

The down side is that leaves a lot of unsupervised children running around the grassroots and shouting during the interim.

165 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:13:19pm

For the rest of the trip down memory lane Erie Canal:

I’ve got a mule, and her name is Sal,
Fifteen miles on the Erie canal,
She’s a good ol’ worker and a good ol’ pal,
Fifteen miles on the Erie can-al,
We’ve hauled some barges in our day,
Filled with lumber coal and hay,
And ev’ry inch of the way we know
From Albany to Buff-a-lo OH

Chorus

Low bridge ev’ry bod-y down,
Low bridge for we’re com-in to a town,
And you always know your neighbor,
You’ll always know your pal,
If you’ve ever navigated on the Erie canal

Chorus

We’d better look round for a job old gal,
Fifteen miles - on the Erie canal,
You bet your life I wouldn’t part with Sal,
Fifteen miles on the Erie canal,
Giddap ‘there gal we’ve passed that lock,
We’ll make Rome fore six o’clock,
So, it’s one more trip and then we’ll go,
Right back home to Buffalo OH

Chorus

Oh, where would I be if I lost my pal?
Fifteen miles on the Erie canal.
Oh, I’d like to see a mule as good as Sal,
Fifteen miles on the Erie canal,
A friend of mine once got her sore,
Now he’s got a busted jaw,
‘Cause she let fly with her iron toe,
And kicked him in to Buffalo OH

Chorus

Don’t have to call when I want my Sal,
Fif-teen miles on the Erie canal,
She trots from her stall like a good old gal,
Fifteen miles on the Erie canal,
I eat my meals with Sal each day,
I eat beef and she eats hay,
And she ain’t so slow if you want to know,
She put the “Buff” in Buffalo OH

Chorus

166 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:15:13pm

Folks keep misinterpreting the GOP losses over the years as having something to do with the democrats playing by Alinsky rules, when it had more to do with the GOP running away from fiscal conservatism.

When republicans watched GOP members of Congress spending like democrats, the old adage of “Why vote for a dem-lite when you can have the real thing” came into play. I know many republicans who stayed home during mid-terms and 2004 because they’re sick of republican spending habits.

But have we learned this lesson? No- we think the lesson is to play by Alinsky rules ourselves. Until the GOP gets back to fiscal responsibility, I expect them to keep losing elections. And right now- I don’t see them adopting that position. They’re too far gone down the Rules for Radicals trail. Sarah has been all to willing to help in that department.

167 HoosierHoops  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:15:28pm

Palin quit as the Governor of Alaska 1/2 way through her Term..
American’s don’t vote for quitters…Obama would destroy her in an election.
IMO

168 SecondComing  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:16:16pm

re: #159 marjoriemoon

I agree it’s odd, eh? But remember that Elton was very cult-like in the 70s. Groundbreaking stuff that was nothing like what was being played at the time. It didn’t even have a category really, all the John/Taupin stuff.

Well, I heard Jerry Cantrell in an interview a while back before Layne OD’d say that Elton John was the reason he was inspired to start writing and got into music. And he named Captain Fantastic as the album.

Elton plays piano on the title track of the album btw.

169 Locker  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:16:19pm

re: #165 Guanxi88

For some reason this makes me think of the Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald. I grew up near Lake Erie and Buffalo before moving to Jersey later. Hard to forget that ship sinking.

170 Randall Gross  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:16:52pm

re: #145 Haole

It’s a stretch of a stretch to link him to Nambla and Ayers put out by religious right political operatives (“Just Regular Folks” is really Grover Norquist and Lori Roman, both tied to religious right, both lobbyists and political operatives)

He was praising the guy for his work establishing Gay Rights movements and to stop violence against gays, and at the time of the speech in 1997 NAMBLA wasn’t really widely known about. Unless they can show that Jennings definitely knew about both NAMBLA and Hay’s ties to it, it’s much ado about nothing.

171 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:17:36pm

re: #162 Dr. Shalit

Winning a nomination in either major party requires a candidate at least “acceptable/plausible” to that party’s base.

Not so. neither McCain nor Dole were “acceptable/plausible” to the base. Neither was

172 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:18:18pm

Michele Bachmann introduces Ron Paul: “He’s an awesome man!”

Youtube Video
173 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:18:27pm

re: #169 Locker

For some reason this makes me think of the Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald. I grew up near Lake Erie and Buffalo before moving to Jersey later. Hard to forget that ship sinking.

Funny you should say that. That particular tune has been on my mental Wurlitzer for going on two months now.

Youtube Video
174 Kragar  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:19:03pm

re: #172 Charles

Michele Bachmann introduces Ron Paul: “He’s an awesome man!”

Youtube Video

Oh for fuck’s sake.

175 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:19:21pm

re: #170 Thanos

It’s a stretch of a stretch to link him to Nambla and Ayers put out by religious right political operatives (“Just Regular Folks” is really Grover Norquist and Lori Roman, both tied to religious right, both lobbyists and political operatives)

He was praising the guy for his work establishing Gay Rights movements and to stop violence against gays, and at the time of the speech in 1997 NAMBLA wasn’t really widely known about. Unless they can show that Jennings definitely knew about both NAMBLA and Hay’s ties to it, it’s much ado about nothing.

More than a stretch, I’d say — it’s a deliberate smear.

176 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:19:46pm

re: #169 Locker

For some reason this makes me think of the Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald. I grew up near Lake Erie and Buffalo before moving to Jersey later. Hard to forget that ship sinking.

That good ship and true
Was a bone to be chewed
When the storms of November came early.

177 SecondComing  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:20:35pm

re: #163 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The fact Staley’s been dead for 7 years might explain why he isn’t on the album. Don’t know why Elton John is on it though.

ha yeah, I know he’s been dead! I just thought the combination of those two things was something I would never see as an AIC fan. It just sounds hilarious.

I know why he’s on there. Read my previous post. Someone suggested Jerry get Elton on piano on the track. He said “no way he’ll do it”. But he wrote Elton a letter explaining what it was about and the type of song he was wanting. Elton got back to him and said he would do it.

178 erraticsphinx  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:20:41pm

re: #175 Charles

Stooping this low will backfire, big time for the GOP.

179 What, me worry?  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:21:40pm

re: #168 SecondComing

Well, I heard Jerry Cantrell in an interview a while back before Layne OD’d say that Elton John was the reason he was inspired to start writing and got into music. And he named Captain Fantastic as the album.

Elton plays piano on the title track of the album btw.

I was a big fan in the 70s. Unbelievable stuff. Yellow Brick Road was probably the ground breaker, but his and Bernie Taupin’s originality was amazing. He even did a country album, Tumbleweed Connection, “Burn Down the Mission”, “Country Comfort” were two big hits. He just got all pop-y, blech. Like Heart. Decided to appeal to the masses. And that’s fine, but if he’s going back to doing something less mainstream, I’m sure it’ll be terrific.

180 Pianobuff  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:21:46pm

re: #113 middy

I wish Newt would run. :-(

Here’s the funny thing. In comparison to the last presidential cycle, this is the equivalent of 10/2005. At that point in time, did anyone even think of Obama as a 2008 candidate?

I wonder if another outsider will throw his/her hat in the ring and unexpectedly shoot out front.

2009 is feeling awfully early to have a clue who the R’s will run.

181 funky chicken  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:22:01pm

re: #27 Charles

I lost all respect for Sarah Palin (and I didn’t have much left at that point anyway) when she resigned in the middle of her elected term.

You just don’t do that.

And then when she came up with the “death panel” thing, and used her own child to hype this fear-mongering bullshit, that lack of respect went deeply into the negative category.

I’ll never vote for Sarah Palin for anything, ever again.

Yep. But I still wouldn’t mind if the people of Alaska chose to send her to the House of Representatives instead of Young. He’s a corrupt porkmeister a la Ted Stevens. Palin couldn’t be any worse, and might be better since she is truly supportive of the military.

182 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:22:18pm

re: #135 marjoriemoon

Oh no no no… I’m dying for her to run. I’m praying that she runs. Let her run!!! What better way to insure a Democrat win!

Don’t be too sure of that.
Never overestimate the intelligence of the average voter.
Even Attila the Hun could probably win in 2012 if the economy tanks badly enough in 2010 and 2011.
“It’s the economy, stupid!”

183 Occasional Reader  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:24:36pm

re: #170 Thanos

Not to detract from your larger point:

and at the time of the speech in 1997 NAMBLA wasn’t really widely known about.

I can recall NAMBLA making national headlines as far back as 1983, when the photo of a missing boy turned up in the [shudder] calendar they printed for the year.

184 Randall Gross  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:24:51pm

re: #182 Spare O’Lake

Don’t be too sure of that.
Never overestimate the intelligence of the average voter.
Even Attila the Hun could probably win in 2012 if the economy tanks badly enough in 2010 and 2011.
“It’s the economy, stupid!”

Counting on a historically uncharacteristically lengthy recession to win an election doesn’t sound like an effective plan, sound policy, or good political direction.

185 Randall Gross  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:25:52pm

re: #183 Occasional Reader

Not to detract from your larger point:

I can recall NAMBLA making national headlines as far back as 1983, when the photo of a missing boy turned up in the [shudder] calendar they printed for the year.

I’d never heard of them until I saw it on O’Reilly, and I was shocked.

186 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:26:14pm

re: #182 Spare O’Lake

Don’t be too sure of that.
Never overestimate the intelligence of the average voter.
Even Attila the Hun could probably win in 2012 if the economy tanks badly enough in 2010 and 2011.
“It’s the economy, stupid!”

re: #184 Thanos

Counting on a historically uncharacteristically lengthy recession to win an election doesn’t sound like an effective plan, sound policy, or good political direction.

All of this assumes that there will be elections in 2012. Just sayin’.
///

187 What, me worry?  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:26:29pm

re: #182 Spare O’Lake

Don’t be too sure of that.
Never overestimate the intelligence of the average voter.
Even Attila the Hun could probably win in 2012 if the economy tanks badly enough in 2010 and 2011.
“It’s the economy, stupid!”

heheh No way, Jose! Palin on the ballot will insure a Democrat win and I’m A-ok with that.

Besides she ain’t running for nothin. She has books to write! People to see!

188 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:27:20pm

re: #187 marjoriemoon

heheh No way, Jose! Palin on the ballot will insure a Democrat win and I’m A-ok with that.

Besides she ain’t running for nothin. She has books to write! People to see!

Legal bills to pay from frivolous lawsuits

189 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:27:42pm

re: #148 Charles

Please don’t promote this crappy smear job at LGF.

After tracking this through the nut-web, via Free Republic and the Washington Examiner blogs, I found that the original source is none other than ubiquitous nutjob enabler Lori Roman, and her current org, Plain Folks United. She is seen here denouncing the auto industry bailout on the Glen Beck show. Beck called the bailout “the death of the Constitution and capitalism.”

190 Occasional Reader  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:28:18pm

re: #185 Thanos

I’d never heard of them until I saw it on O’Reilly, and I was shocked.

I can remember making dormroom NAMBLA jokes as a college freshman.

(And, much as I hate to admit it, I wasn’t a college freshman in 1997…)

191 HoosierHoops  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:28:56pm

re: #183 Occasional Reader

Not to detract from your larger point:

I can recall NAMBLA making national headlines as far back as 1983, when the photo of a missing boy turned up in the [shudder] calendar they printed for the year.

OT: OR..I priced out a round trip to Rio for 917.00 USD on American Airlines..
Is that a good Airlines to book with? Who do you recommend since you go down there a lot?

192 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:29:13pm

re: #186 Guanxi88

All of this assumes that there will be elections in 2012. Just sayin’.
///

I mean, it can’t be a coincidence, can it, that the Mayan calendar ends (as that wild-eyed fellow with the unkempt hair on the Discovery Channel tells me) in 2012, the very year that seekrit mooslim anit-christ stalin obama will have to run again for president?
///

193 Pianobuff  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:29:20pm

re: #149 buzzsawmonkey

OT: If something big ever happens involving both SoKo and Venezuela, can I make a request for a song parody of The Telephone Hour?

194 MJ  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:29:33pm

re: #57 Ben Hur

Romney/Bloomberg?

A Mormon and a Jew. Now that will just light ‘em up.

195 What, me worry?  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:29:43pm

re: #188 sattv4u2

Legal bills to pay from frivolous lawsuits

rofl… you don’t follow Alaska politics do you? The state picked up most of that cost.

And why would you object to that anyway? If you thought your politician was a crook, wouldn’t you do the same?

196 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:30:06pm

re: #194 MJ

A Mormon and a Jew. Now that will just light ‘em up.

Sounds like a balanced ticket. (Channeling Jewish Archie Bunker)

197 Occasional Reader  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:30:45pm

re: #191 HoosierHoops

OT: OR..I priced out a round trip to Rio for 917.00 USD on American Airlines..
Is that a good Airlines to book with? Who do you recommend since you go down there a lot?

American has its warts, but it’s fine. What time of year are you planning on going? That’s a fairly high fare (assuming it’s coach… if it’s Business, TAKE IT!).

198 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:31:05pm

re: #191 HoosierHoops

OT: OR..I priced out a round trip to Rio for 917.00 USD on American Airlines..
Is that a good Airlines to book with? Who do you recommend since you go down there a lot?


As a frequent flyer myself, AA is a good airline

Thats stated, I would hold off just a little while until reputable travel agencies start putting together packages, or just start buying bulk flights then selling them cheaper than “normal” fares you’re seeing today

DISCLAIMER
Your Mileage May Vary

199 [deleted]  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:31:29pm
200 Occasional Reader  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:31:41pm

re: #196 Guanxi88

Sounds like a balanced ticket. (Channeling Jewish Archie Bunker)

“And they’re all free to live… in their own, separate sections… and they’ll bust your head if you go in there!”

201 What, me worry?  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:31:43pm

re: #194 MJ

A Mormon and a Jew. Now that will just light ‘em up.

hehe Sounds like the start of a bad joke.

A Mormon and a Jew are running for office…

202 Pianobuff  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:32:26pm

re: #199 buzzsawmonkey

From Bye Bye, Birdie?

I don’t quite see the connection—or why you have South Korea and Venezuela in particular in mind. Some help?

Have you heard about Hugo and Kim?

203 Semper Fi  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:32:27pm

re: #167 HoosierHoops

Palin quit as the Governor of Alaska 1/2 way through her Term..
American’s don’t vote for quitters…Obama would destroy her in an election.
IMO

I completely agree and further think Obama has a lock on the next election thanks to the prevailing behavior of the right.

204 What, me worry?  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:32:32pm

re: #198 sattv4u2

As a frequent flyer myself, AA is a good airline

Thats stated, I would hold off just a little while until reputable travel agencies start putting together packages, or just start buying bulk flights then selling them cheaper than “normal” fares you’re seeing today

DISCLAIMER
Your Mileage May Vary

OMG I found something to upding you about! Wow! Where’d I put my diary??

205 Occasional Reader  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:32:59pm

re: #201 marjoriemoon

hehe Sounds like the start of a bad joke.

A Mormon and a Jew are running for office…

And so the bartender says…

206 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:33:13pm

I was very supportive of Sarah when she was announced, and remained loyal through the election. Now we come to find out her ties to Dominionists is stronger than we could have imagined last fall. I don’t appreciate a woman trying to shove me in an invisible burqa any more than I appreciate a man doing it, and in fact, it’s a bit worse. To use feminist rhetoric to promote a woman who would turn back the clock on feminist ideals is a betrayal. I won’t vote for Sarah again.

207 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:33:16pm

re: #195 marjoriemoon

rofl… you don’t follow Alaska politics do you? The state picked up most of that cost.

And why would you object to that anyway? If you thought your politician was a crook, wouldn’t you do the same?

What is it you want me to object too? The state picking up the tab
(ummm,,, btw ,, the “state money” in this case is the taxpayers of Alaska)((good that she was sued her so the “state” could pay!))

208 Occasional Reader  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:33:56pm

re: #203 Semper Fi

I completely agree and further think Obama has a lock on the next election thanks to the prevailing behavior of the right.

I think it is way, way, way too early to declare anyone as having a “lock” on 2012.

Remember how George H.W. Bush had a lock on 1992, in light of the stunning Desert Storm victory?

209 HoosierHoops  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:34:08pm

re: #197 Occasional Reader

American has its warts, but it’s fine. What time of year are you planning on going? That’s a fairly high fare (assuming it’s coach… if it’s Business, TAKE IT!).

That’s the price during the Olympics in 2016…That’s about 12 dollars a month to save till 2016.. I must see a real Olympic Basketball game live..
I was rooting for Chicago to win.. 4 hours away…

210 MJ  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:34:18pm

re: #201 marjoriemoon

hehe Sounds like the start of a bad joke.

A Mormon and a Jew are running for office…

I’d like to see Cantor in there but…

211 What, me worry?  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:34:46pm

re: #207 sattv4u2

What is it you want me to object too? The state picking up the tab
(ummm,,, btw ,, the “state money” in this case is the taxpayers of Alaska)((good that she was sued her so the “state” could pay!))

Mmm, not really. See the state has lawyers on staff. All states do. They get a salary whether they are used or not. It’s not like they bill as in private practice.

212 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:34:47pm

re: #204 marjoriemoon

OMG I found something to upding you about! Wow! Where’d I put my diary??


“Dear Diary,

I am so happy! Today I can say I did something sane!!”

/

213 [deleted]  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:34:59pm
214 equable  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:35:13pm

You’re all lousy, filthy sexists.

The lot of you.

/

215 Occasional Reader  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:36:08pm

re: #209 HoosierHoops

That’s the price during the Olympics in 2016…

Sheesh, I didn’t even know they sold tickets that far in advance.

By 2016, won’t we just be able to beam ourselves to Rio?

216 cliffster  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:36:08pm

re: #214 equable

You’re all lousy, filthy sexists.

The lot of you.

/

You stink.

217 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:36:41pm

re: #172 Charles

re: #166 Sharmuta

I really think the issue is backlash to culture shock.

It is no longer a question of fiscal responsibility when talking about the GOP. I am not coming to take away the point that the GOP lost traditional Republican votes over their fiscal mismanagement. Rather, I am saying that the GOP has been slowly but surely evicting that part of its make up for the better part of two decades.

The GOP is not about fiscal responsibility anymore. They are not about any of the old party planks that conservatism used to mean.

The new definitions of the GOP are based on fear, isolationism and a certain culture shock that is terrified of a changing world it does not comprehend. The message isn’t really about health care or any of the other things people are up in arms about. The proof of that is that the typical member of the GOP could not tell you a single accurate thing about the issue.

The issues come down to race, anti-science and xenophobia.

The issue comes down to a bunch of ignorant people who define America as a certain form of white Christian confection, faced with science they do not understand, an economy that seems a lottery and a perceived lack of position in a land they once thought was their own. They feel besieged by other races. They feel besieged by gay people. They feel besieged by scientists who tell them that evolution happened and that worse, they will have to change their lifestyle because of AGW. They feel out of control and that their nation no longer is their own.

It all adds up to a certain brimming hysteria based on a very false, but very real sense of persecution. They see themselves as just these guys, who were wherever, and suddenly their world changed in ways they do not understand, and that makes demands on them they do not want to fulfill.

Many are OK with the idea of a brown person - over there, away from themselves. But being asked to accept them, and women, and gay people as equals and leaders is too much. Many are OK with the idea of a conservation efforts in a national park, but being demanded to take responsibility for their own pollution is too much. Stem cells seem like Satan’s work. Many might be OK with the idea of other religions - over there, but they really do suspect Obama’s Christianity. The idea of a non- Christian president is too much. The education issue is huge too. These people know they are not well educated. A well educated intellectual president only makes them feel even less in control of a world that has left them behind. It’s all too much for them to comprehend. It all just adds up to culture shock.

So the reality is that the GOP, and the message of the paleocons and the Ron Paul types and perky people like Sarah Palin, will only get more shrill and more afraid and that the sorts of fiscal conservatism that used to be the GOP are no longer relevant to the GOP.

218 equable  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:36:49pm

re: #216 cliffster

Oh yeah?

I can shower but you’ll always be ugly!

;-)

219 victor_yugo  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:36:56pm

re: #192 Guanxi88

Don’t forget, there’s also three Friday the 13th’s in 2012.

Just like there are in 2009.

Oh yeah, and a blue moon in 2009, with the next one in 2012.

220 cliffster  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:37:20pm

re: #218 equable

Oh yeah?

I can shower but you’ll always be ugly!

;-)

Excellent Churchill tribute

221 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:37:48pm

re: #219 victor_yugo

Don’t forget, there’s also three Friday the 13th’s in 2012.

Just like there are in 2009.

Oh yeah, and a blue moon in 2009, with the next one in 2012.

Well, I think that sort of clinches it then, doesn’t it?

222 drcordell  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:37:59pm

Can’t say I fault Schmidt for stating the obvious, because I believe it. But isn’t he the guy whose idea it was to pick her in the first place? What a cynical asshole he is to come up with the idea to put Palin one heartbeat from the Presidency, yet after the campaign call her “disastrous.”

223 [deleted]  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:38:02pm
224 Ed_Gibbon  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:38:24pm

re: #158 SecondComing

I am not promoting a third party. Just in case anyone is too lazy to scroll back up and see what I said.

My apologies (“Not again.”) sloppy on my part as it should be a reply to #17

225 Occasional Reader  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:38:43pm

re: #223 buzzsawmonkey

Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute!

One cent? No, I think the Chicago Tribute’s up to about a buck per copy.

226 lawhawk  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:38:49pm

Oh, and about 2016, will it even matter when the world’s supposed to end in 2012 anyways?

Youtube Video
227 Randall Gross  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:39:06pm

ut oh — New Pat Condell Rant against clergy of all stripe:

Youtube Video
228 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:39:51pm

re: #211 marjoriemoon

Mmm, not really. See the state has lawyers on staff. All states do. They get a salary whether they are used or not. It’s not like they bill as in private practice.

Not so. She owes(d) the money to a private firm (The debt is owed to Clapp, Peterson, Van Flein, Tiemessen & Thorsness, according to her financial disclosure. Palin said she didn’t have an exact figure yet but “the debt is over a half a million dollars.”)
Whatever the “state lawyers” worked on were on behalf of the state, not her personally
[Link: www.juneauempire.com…]

229 [deleted]  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:40:06pm
230 Occasional Reader  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:42:01pm

re: #229 buzzsawmonkey

Keep posting.

We keep you alive to serve this blog!

231 DaddyG  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:42:04pm

I am sick of the position that the nuts on the left were a fringe movement but the nuts on the right are representative of the GOP.

Defining who is the center, who is representative or who is the leadership of the other party is a subtle smear.

232 Locker  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:42:26pm

re: #227 Thanos

ut oh — New Pat Condell Rant against clergy of all stripe:


[Video]

Laugh Pat Condell is one of my heroes and I have him on some of my social networking sites talking about faith, basically mirroring my own feelings. The only one better (at humorous ranting, not about religion) than him is Ben “Yahtzee” Croshaw who never ceases to crack me the hell up.

233 Occasional Reader  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:43:01pm

Later. Stuff to finish.

234 What, me worry?  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:44:00pm

re: #222 drcordell

Can’t say I fault Schmidt for stating the obvious, because I believe it. But isn’t he the guy whose idea it was to pick her in the first place? What a cynical asshole he is to come up with the idea to put Palin one heartbeat from the Presidency, yet after the campaign call her “disastrous.”

I do agree with you, but I’m also ok with him coming to the right conclusion, even if a bit late in the game.

235 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:44:46pm

re: #226 lawhawk

I’m hoping by 2016 the GOP will be able to accept a person like Jon Huntsman Jr. for the Presidency. But it will only happen if the center of the party can regain control of this rudderless ship.

236 Buster  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:45:14pm

re: #166 Sharmuta

I think it is a combination of the two. Once they disillusioned the base through profligate spending, the Dems were able to pick them apart with Alinscy’s tactics.

237 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:45:25pm

re: #222 drcordell

Can’t say I fault Schmidt for stating the obvious, because I believe it. But isn’t he the guy whose idea it was to pick her in the first place? What a cynical asshole he is to come up with the idea to put Palin one heartbeat from the Presidency, yet after the campaign call her “disastrous.”

Well, in fairness, if it had (by some miracle) worked, he’d be out there loudly proclaiming the key role his brilliant choice played in the success.

238 DaddyG  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:45:55pm

re: #231 DaddyG

I am sick of the position that the nuts on the left were a fringe movement but the nuts on the right are representative of the GOP.

Defining who is the center, who is representative or who is the leadership of the other party is a subtle smear.

BTW- that is not a pre-flounce. Just an expression of frustration with some fellow lizards when they get into the “our farts were more pleasant than your farts” kind of rants.

239 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:46:26pm

re: #217 LudwigVanQuixote

Okay, we get it, the GOP is entirely made up of uneducated racist bible-thumping rednecks.

/That’s a surprisingly broad brush you use there, do you have to order special paint trays for it or are they available in aisle 24 at Condescension Depot?

240 victor_yugo  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:46:37pm

re: #238 DaddyG

BTW- that is not a pre-flounce. Just an expression of frustration with some fellow lizards when they get into the “our farts were more pleasant than your farts” kind of rants.

Butt… butt…

241 DaddyG  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:46:44pm

re: #235 Sharmuta

I’m hoping by 2016 the GOP will be able to accept a person like Jon Huntsman Jr. for the Presidency. But it will only happen if the center of the party can regain control of this rudderless ship.


You really like Mormon candidates don’t you. Should I send the missionaries over for a visit? /

242 What, me worry?  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:46:45pm

re: #228 sattv4u2

Not so. She owes(d) the money to a private firm (The debt is owed to Clapp, Peterson, Van Flein, Tiemessen & Thorsness, according to her financial disclosure. Palin said she didn’t have an exact figure yet but “the debt is over a half a million dollars.”)
Whatever the “state lawyers” worked on were on behalf of the state, not her personally
[Link: www.juneauempire.com…]

I have to go back and look. She was going to create that fund, and I think did, but I think it turned out to be illegal. ADN (Anchorage Daily News) had all the hub-bub, bub. I have to locate it again.

243 DaddyG  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:47:09pm

re: #240 victor_yugo

Butt… butt…

Well played on your end.

244 victor_yugo  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:47:59pm

re: #243 DaddyG

I was going to say more, but as soon as I typed the first word, it all changed.

245 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:48:29pm

re: #241 DaddyG

You really like Mormon candidates don’t you. Should I send the missionaries over for a visit? /

Nice young fellows, in white oxford shirts and ties, riding bicycles. I smile every time I see them out and about.

246 drcordell  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:48:43pm

re: #237 Guanxi88

Well, in fairness, if it had (by some miracle) worked, he’d be out there loudly proclaiming the key role his brilliant choice played in the success.

Right, that’s what makes him a cynic. I believe full well that he knew exactly what he was doing at the time, and was willing to do so because he thought it was their only chance at victory.

247 John Neverbend  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:48:51pm

re: #17 Ojoe

How can you have a middle class without a middle party?

Modern Whig Party

What is the party’s position on the theory of evolution and its being taught in schools? A quick reading of the web site didn’t give me an answer to this.

248 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:48:51pm

re: #235 Sharmuta

I’m hoping by 2016 the GOP will be able to accept a person like Jon Huntsman Jr. for the Presidency. But it will only happen if the center of the party can regain control of this rudderless ship.

{sigh}

Here we go again.

Please tell me who was the “rudder” of the Republican party 10 months after Clinton slaughtered Dole
Tell me who was the “rudder” of the Dem party 10 months after Reagan ousted Carter
Who would have guessed that Kerry would be the “rudder” of the Dems 10 months after Bush beat Gore in 2000

249 drcordell  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:49:43pm

re: #248 sattv4u2

{sigh}

Here we go again.

Please tell me who was the “rudder” of the Republican party 10 months after Clinton slaughtered Dole
Tell me who was the “rudder” of the Dem party 10 months after Reagan ousted Carter
Who would have guessed that Kerry would be the “rudder” of the Dems 10 months after Bush beat Gore in 2000

Well I think that might be exactly his point. Kerry wasn’t a rudder, which is why the Dems were in the political wilderness for 8 straight years.

250 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:50:45pm

re: #249 drcordell

Well I think that might be exactly his point. Kerry wasn’t a rudder, which is why the Dems were in the political wilderness for 8 straight years.

The point is, the “losing party” NEVER has a rudder or a leader within 2 + years after the last (lost) election.

251 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:50:49pm

re: #246 drcordell

Right, that’s what makes him a cynic. I believe full well that he knew exactly what he was doing at the time, and was willing to do so because he thought it was their only chance at victory.

That’s not cynicism; that’s just how the game is played. (hate not the player, but rather the game, as the hip-hop sages advise)

252 DaddyG  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:51:25pm

re: #245 Guanxi88

Nice young fellows, in white oxford shirts and ties, riding bicycles. I smile every time I see them out and about.

Thank you. It’s the safest thing we can do with a 19 year old. “Here son go do some service work and teach people about the Church. By the way you can’t date or drive a car. Enjoy!”

I just got a facebook message from a very pretty young lady in the Philippines who was looking for my boy. She was a neighbor who was too shy to talk to him but wondered where he went when he was moved to another district. I had to explain that they get moved from time to time but she has my permission to write him when he returns in 2011. (Proud Dad heh.)

253 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:51:35pm

re: #249 drcordell

re: #250 sattv4u2

The point is, the “losing party” NEVER has a rudder or a leader within 2 + years after the last (lost) election.

And yes, as the standardbearer of that years election, Kerry WAS the nominal “rudder”

254 [deleted]  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:52:14pm
255 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:53:39pm

re: #241 DaddyG

You really like Mormon candidates don’t you. Should I send the missionaries over for a visit? /

I would vote for Huntsman now if he wasn’t in China. He’s anti-ID and pro-gay marriage. He’s a moderate on social issues and a conservative on fiscal issues. I think it’s a winning combination. Obama was smart to send him away, but a few years as an ambassador will only improve his resume in the long run. Now he’ll have international credentials to match his executive ones. The only problem is the hostility of his own party to his message.

256 Randall Gross  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:54:52pm

If you are a NY lizard you still have a chance to hit the Vendies:

Youtube Video
257 Ojoe  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:55:13pm

re: #247 John Neverbend

The Whig Party is pro science.

Here is a quote from the front page of their website:


EDUCATION/SCIENTIFIC ADVANCEMENT — Increased public and private emphasis on fields such as space, oceanic, medical and nanotechnology.

They need a larger and more readable typeface there.

258 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:55:27pm

re: #252 DaddyG

Thank you. It’s the safest thing we can do with a 19 year old. “Here son go do some service work and teach people about the Church. By the way you can’t date or drive a car. Enjoy!”

I just got a facebook message from a very pretty young lady in the Philippines who was looking for my boy. She was a neighbor who was too shy to talk to him but wondered where he went when he was moved to another district. I had to explain that they get moved from time to time but she has my permission to write him when he returns in 2011. (Proud Dad heh.)

And well you might be proud. He clearly made an impression with her, and, what is more, she thought well enough of him to have sought out, and accepted, your permission to correspond with him later.

259 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:55:32pm

re: #175 Charles

More than a stretch, I’d say — it’s a deliberate smear.

I expect we’ll be seeing this on an upcoming Beck segment. 0bama czar - check; Falsified accusations - check; keywords calculated to cause hemorrhagic outrage on the right - check and double check.

260 Randall Gross  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:58:09pm

re: #259 SixDegrees

I expect we’ll be seeing this on an upcoming Beck segment. 0bama czar - check; Falsified accusations - check; keywords calculated to cause hemorrhagic outrage on the right - check and double check.

I’m betting O’Reilly jumps on this one, he’s been on NAMBLA for years.

261 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 1:59:53pm

re: #249 drcordell

re: #253 sattv4u2

re: #250 sattv4u2


And yes, as the standardbearer of that years election, Kerry WAS the nominal “rudder”

Kerry wasn’t a rudder, which is why the Dems were in the political wilderness for 8 straight years

AND ,,, Kerry ran in 2004. The dems sure came out of that “8 straight years” in the wilderness fast, as Obama won in 2008!

262 Equable  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:00:05pm

I had one of NAMBLA’s lawyers send me a threatening letter once. It was one of the proudest days of my life.

263 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:00:24pm

re: #260 Thanos

I’m betting O’Reilly jumps on this one, he’s been on NAMBLA for years.

Ya may want to re-phrase that!!

//

264 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:00:51pm

re: #239 CyanSnowHawk

Okay, we get it, the GOP is entirely made up of uneducated racist bible-thumping rednecks.

/That’s a surprisingly broad brush you use there, do you have to order special paint trays for it or are they available in aisle 24 at Condescension Depot?

No actually. There are of course still rank and file GOP types who are bitterly disappointed in the direction the party has gone, but because they can not stomach the Democrats still hang on to the illusion that the party leadership and core base hves completely changed.

Now, one look at the rhetoric coming from the GOP these days tells you exactly where they are aiming.

When was the last time you saw a concerted effort by the GOP to have fiscal responsibility? The only one I know of in recent memory who reallyy thought like that was John McCain, who is considered a RINO by the base.

ON the other hand, we see lots and lots of Ron PAul, Palin, Huckabee, Jindal, Rush, Beck et al… speaking for the party. What is the consistent drumbeat of their message? Surely it is not a message that Goldwater or Reagan would recognize as Republican.

Dobson, Falwell types and Pat Robertson might. Ronulans might, but not the old school GOP. The Old GOP is dead. It is gone the way of the dinosaurs that the new GOP doesn’t believe in.

265 John Neverbend  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:01:21pm

re: #257 Ojoe

The Whig Party is pro science.

Here is a quote from the front page of their website:


EDUCATION/SCIENTIFIC ADVANCEMENT — Increased public and private emphasis on fields such as space, oceanic, medical and nanotechnology.

They need a larger and more readable typeface there.

I did see that, but I wondered if they had a specific line on evolution.

266 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:02:03pm

re: #264 LudwigVanQuixote

PIMF
No actually. There are of course still rank and file GOP types who are bitterly disappointed in the direction the party has gone, but because they can not stomach the Democrats still hang on to the illusion that the party leadership and core base has not completely changed.

One look at the rhetoric coming from the GOP these days tells you exactly where they are aiming.

When was the last time you saw a concerted effort by the GOP to have fiscal responsibility? The only one I know of in recent memory who reallyy thought like that was John McCain, who is considered a RINO by the base.

On the other hand, we see lots and lots of Ron PAul, Palin, Huckabee, Jindal, Rush, Beck et al… speaking for the party. What is the consistent drumbeat of their message? Surely it is not a message that Goldwater or Reagan would recognize as Republican.

Dobson, Falwell types and Pat Robertson might. Ronulans might, but not the old school GOP. The Old GOP is dead. It is gone the way of the dinosaurs that the new GOP doesn’t believe in.

267 [deleted]  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:02:18pm
268 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:02:45pm

re: #260 Thanos

I’m betting O’Reilly jumps on this one, he’s been on NAMBLA for years.

Frankly, I can’t blame anyone for criticizing NAMBLA - get out the tar and feathers, and I’ll happily join you. And this disgust and revulsion isn’t unique to the Right - it spans political boundaries.

But this particular report looks like pure sewage. I would hope that others would recognize it as such and leave it to rot.

Beck, of course, won’t, because he thrives on such pustulence. I guess we’ll see if anyone else dives to the bottom after this bait.

269 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:04:02pm

re: #264 LudwigVanQuixote

When was the last time you saw a concerted effort by the GOP to have fiscal responsibility? The only one I know of in recent memory who reallyy thought like that was John McCain,


So the most recent nominal head of the Republicans was for fiscal responsibility! The man that was nominated BY the party to LEAD the party in the most recent election!
huh ,,, imagine that

270 jvic  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:05:10pm

re: #89 Kosh’s Shadow

Yes. He might pander to the social conservatives a bit, but he managed to be governor of Massachusetts, so he can’t be that far off the deep end.

And yes, if the economy isn’t doing that well in 4 years Romney will have a good chance, just not a guarantee.

Iirc I’ve previously posted along the following lines.

Romney has strong credentials and I would expect to vote for him if he is nominated in 2012, but he is a little too cautious, a little too calculating, to kindle my enthusiasm.

He declined to run for reelection in 2006. True, it was a Democratic year and discretion is often the better part of valor.

His opponent was the charismatic black Deval Patrick, who has turned out to be an unpopular governor. Suppose Romney had defeated him, in a liberal state in a Democratic year. He would have been the obvious choice to run against Obama (or Hillary) in 2008. But he wouldn’t take the risk.

Contrast that with the 1976 Reagan, a two-term governor. He risked challenging an incumbent President of his own party. He kept campaigning when it seemed futile, and wound up taking North Carolina and all but the nomination—thereby positioning himself for 1980.

I don’t want a reckless President, but in this uncertain, rapidly changing, and dangerous world, I want one who believes that fortune favors the bold.

271 non obama mama  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:05:26pm

McCain is acting like a slimeball here.

He chose Palin, and decided to cast her in the national spotlight. That was McCain’s choice. Yet instead of sticking with his choice, he decided to bash Palin when he lost, and then appear to stick blame on her for losing.

Hey there, partner - you chose her! So if she was a disaster, it is your fault as well!

And now this.

I think Palin is absolutely the wrong choice for 2012 (or any time), but a McCain surrogate saying this just strikes the absolute wrong chord with me.

Here’s hoping a good man or woman will run in 2012 who can beat Obama and stands for human rights and democracy.

272 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:05:27pm

re: #259 SixDegrees

I expect we’ll be seeing this on an upcoming Beck segment. 0bama czar - check; Falsified accusations - check; keywords calculated to cause hemorrhagic outrage on the right - check and double check.

I think you might be right. Vile smears are at least as common on the left, but they seem to carry farther on the right. It’s easy to find all sorts of truly despicable stuff about the Bush administration at Huffpo and DU, among others, but you didn’t see Olbermann and Colmes repeating it for a national audience.

273 theheat  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:06:30pm
Steve Schmidt, former top campaign strategist for John McCain, said today that if Sarah Palin becomes the GOP nominee for President in 2012, it would be “catastrophic” for the party.

Ah. 20/20 hindsight. It didn’t seem like such a bad idea to for the McCain camp to cram Palin down our throats last fall, though, did it? She was a useful tool then. Now, not so much. And because she’s had the opportunity to show her true colors since the last election, I resent it even more they propped her up as a viable candidate in the first place, possibly mere inches from the seat of POTUS given McCain’s age and health. There was a more qualified field to choose from, but they lacked the fundie stamp of approval Sarah brought to the table. That, itself, pissed me off enough to run the other way from the GOP.

274 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:06:56pm

re: #269 sattv4u2

When was the last time you saw a concerted effort by the GOP to have fiscal responsibility? The only one I know of in recent memory who reallyy thought like that was John McCain,

So the most recent nominal head of the Republicans was for fiscal responsibility! The man that was nominated BY the party to LEAD the party in the most recent election!
huh ,,, imagine that

And what great support he got from Republicans like you! You think I don’t remember all of the rants about him?

Also, following his defeat, what direction did the party take? Did they say, hmmm we need to get more moderate? Or did they say we need to get further into the crazy?

No the defeat of McCain, and the subsequent rise of all of this hysteria was the final nail in the coffin for moderate, fiscally conservative Republicans.

If you don’t believe me… Two words…

Colin Powell.

Love him or hate him?

275 Semper Fi  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:07:39pm

re: #241 DaddyG

You really like Mormon candidates don’t you. Should I send the missionaries over for a visit? /

I don’t think religion should be an issue. Thankfully, I have no trouble reading the ballot:
Name of Democrat candidate (D)
Name of Republican candidate (R)

I’ve never seen (M) for Mormon; (C) for Catholic; (J) for Jew, and etc.. I let the media squabble over that stuff. I just vote for the one I like.
It was even easier for my father. He only ticked names that were followed with (D).

276 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:07:46pm

re: #271 non obama mama

McCain is acting like a slimeball here.

He chose Palin, and decided to cast her in the national spotlight. That was McCain’s choice. Yet instead of sticking with his choice, he decided to bash Palin when he lost, and then appear to stick blame on her for losing.

Hey there, partner - you chose her! So if she was a disaster, it is your fault as well!

And now this.

I think Palin is absolutely the wrong choice for 2012 (or any time), but a McCain surrogate saying this just strikes the absolute wrong chord with me.

Here’s hoping a good man or woman will run in 2012 who can beat Obama and stands for human rights and democracy.

The story seems pretty clear that the GOP hierarchy imposed Palin on McCain.

277 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:08:26pm

re: #274 LudwigVanQuixote

And what great support he got from Republicans like you! You think I don’t remember all of the rants about him?

Show me where I ranted against McCain

I’ll wait!

278 Equable  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:09:05pm

re: #268 SixDegrees

One has to be absolutely careful when making associations with those involved with sex crimes, whether directly or even remotely indirectly. It’s akin to accusing someone of rape; it’s the gift that keeps on giving and ruins reputations forever.

Look at those Duke lacrosse players.

Once I was doing an interview with a newspaper in New Jersey and just mentioning NAMBLA (I was doing an interview about the rampant scourge of child pornography/predators on the internet) got their lawyers on me. Hell, even the pedophiles don’t like to be likened to sexual criminals.

279 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:09:36pm

re: #277 sattv4u2

And what great support he got from Republicans like you! You think I don’t remember all of the rants about him?

Show me where I ranted against McCain

I’ll wait!

Maybe not you personally. It was a collective you for the Republican party overall. It would b hard to argue that McCain was a favorite son.

280 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:10:45pm

re: #274 LudwigVanQuixote

Two words…

Colin Powell.

Love him or hate him?

Sorry, but you’re not going to dictate my thoughts about anyone

There are things I admire about Gen Powell. There are areas I disagree with him on. I neither love NOR hate him, nor any other public figure

But nice try!

281 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:11:03pm

re: #278 Equable

Hell, even the pedophiles don’t like to be likened to sexual criminals.

It is appalling and revolting beyond words or measure that there is even an organization permitted to attempt to decriminalize the atrocities perpetrated by those beasts.

282 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:11:57pm

re: #231 DaddyG

I am sick of the position that the nuts on the left were a fringe movement but the nuts on the right are representative of the GOP.

Defining who is the center, who is representative or who is the leadership of the other party is a subtle smear.

I’ll stand by it and restate what I said before. Bush has a 90% approval rating after 9/11, a 70% approval rating for a full year, which hit 70+% again in april of 2003, and didn’t drop below 60% until after September of 2003 or so. Approval ratings of that level aren’t going to happen unless there is overwhelming support for the President. America was united.

His approval ratings with Democrats didn’t crater until after mid 2003, and even with all the hysteria of stolen elections and other crap, there wasn’t a sense of the majority of democrat party buying into the nonsense that 9/11 was orchestrated by Bush. Hell, Sheehan ran against Pelosi, because Pelosi wasn’t batshit crazy enough.

Now you have the majority of the Republican party thinking Obama isn’t even a US citizen. and you think the nuts aren’t representing the general views of the Republican party? Give me some counter examples… I really would love to see it, because I can’t and we need a good strong opposition party.

283 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:12:21pm

re: #279 LudwigVanQuixote

Maybe not you personally. It was a collective you for the Republican party overall. It would b hard to argue that McCain was a favorite son.


heres a good excersize for you
Ask “republicans” TODAY if they HAD TO vote today, Obama/ McCain who would they pull the lever for

284 starsfan914  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:12:22pm

I think that McCain’s Sr. Advisor would probably be the very last person I would listen to. I certainly would not waste any news column space on his opinions or advice.

285 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:12:28pm

re: #280 sattv4u2

Two words…

Colin Powell.

Love him or hate him?

Sorry, but you’re not going to dictate my thoughts about anyone

There are things I admire about Gen Powell. There are areas I disagree with him on. I neither love NOR hate him, nor any other public figure

But nice try!

Again, you is a collective you. I seem to recall Powell being called al manner of awful names for taking a principled stand. Powell was also really spot on about why the GOP lost.

286 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:13:09pm

re: #271 non obama mama

McCain is acting like a slimeball here.

Help me out here. When did John McCain have his name legally changed to Steve Schmidt?

I must have missed a meeting, or something.

287 Equable  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:13:18pm

re: #281 Guanxi88

Tell me about it, I spent years chasing those fuckers down on AOL and the IRC before those “Perverted Justice” cats were a glint in MSNBC’s eyes, let alone the issue was a household one.

288 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:14:10pm

re: #283 sattv4u2

heres a good excersize for you
Ask “republicans” TODAY if they HAD TO vote today, Obama/ McCain who would they pull the lever for

Given the fanaticism I see out of most so called Republicans… I have a better question…

If the choice were between an open Neo Nazi and Obama, who would they vote for?

289 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:14:12pm

re: #279 LudwigVanQuixote

Maybe not you personally. It was a collective you for the Republican party overall. It would b hard to argue that McCain was a favorite son.


Not at all

McCain, just shy of 60 MILLION votes

290 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:14:15pm

re: #287 Equable

Tell me about it, I spent years chasing those fuckers down on AOL and the IRC before those “Perverted Justice” cats were a glint in MSNBC’s eyes, let alone the issue was a household one.

You will be remembered, if not here and now, then elsewhere and later, for your good works.

291 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:15:30pm

re: #285 LudwigVanQuixote

Again, you is a collective you. I seem to recall Powell being called al manner of awful names for taking a principled stand. Powell was also really spot on about why the GOP lost.

Want me to start pulling up things DEMS were saying about Obama pre-election? Lets go back some, how about Hillary? Kerry? Gore?? Hell,,, Bill Clinton!

292 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:16:14pm

re: #288 LudwigVanQuixote

Given the fanaticism I see out of most so called Republicans… I have a better question…

If the choice were between an open Neo Nazi and Obama, who would they vote for?

Go ahead and pick one, then ask the “class” here

(((when you’re in a hole ,,, stop digging!!)))

293 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:16:30pm

re: #289 sattv4u2

Not at all

McCain, just shy of 60 MILLION votes

MOstly protest votes against Obama.

There were very few commenters going on about how much they just loved McCain from the GOP. There was a lot of, well he’s better than Obama.

294 theheat  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:16:49pm

re: #285 LudwigVanQuixote

IIRC, Rush said the only reason Powell voted for Obama was because he was black. (No one that listens to him would expect less of Rush.)

Of course, if anyone bothered to read or listen to what Powell said, he gave very detailed reasons why he chose to vote the way he did. And he specifically mentioned he didn’t appreciate Sarah dissing non-rural dwellers in her pandering folksyspeak. In short, he was turned off.

295 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:17:17pm

re: #291 sattv4u2

Want me to start pulling up things DEMS were saying about Obama pre-election? Lets go back some, how about Hillary? Kerry? Gore?? Hell,,, Bill Clinton!

Yes but these were things the GOP was saying about one of their own, who was actually right.

296 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:18:17pm

re: #294 theheat

IIRC, Rush said the only reason Powell voted for Obama was because he was black. (No one that listens to him would expect less of Rush.)

Of course, if anyone bothered to read or listen to what Powell said, he gave very detailed reasons why he chose to vote the way he did. And he specifically mentioned he didn’t appreciate Sarah dissing non-rural dwellers in her pandering folksyspeak. In short, he was turned off.

Exactly.

Powell was one of those old school moderate Republican that got the boot from his own party and mocked on the way out.

297 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:18:59pm

re: #295 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes but these were things the GOP was saying about one of their own, who was actually right.

Bill Clinton re: Obama

“he played the race card on me”


Do you beleive Obama payed the race card on Bill/Hillary?

If not, then Bill was either lying , or ,,,???

298 sagehen  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:21:09pm

re: #47 SecondComing

He has two problems:

1. He comes across as phony and plastic like a Ken doll

He comes across that way because that’s what he really is.

For as long as he lasted in the primaries, his every expressed position on every contentious issue was the exact opposite of what he said it was the last time he ran for something.

And really, guy spends months on end publicly ridiculing every single thing about the state he was recently governor of, the state’s policies, its electorate, its values and community standards… it does not instill confidence.

299 Locker  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:26:15pm

re: #254 buzzsawmonkey

I feel sorrier for poor Mr. Condell with each new video he puts out.

Not sure why you’d feel sorry for him but I’m guessing at least some Lizards would appreciate the fact that he features a link to a campaign against Sharia law.

[Link:patcondell.net ]

300 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:28:22pm

My bet is that the next Republican candidate is none of the above and I’m waiting until 2011 to see if Hillary resigns and runs against Obama in the primaries.

301 RexMundi  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:32:08pm

re: #226 lawhawk

Oh, and about 2016, will it even matter when the world’s supposed to end in 2012 anyways?


[Video]

Palin’s campaign would be the catastrophic end of the world in 2012.

I may have supported Obama over McCain but I would like a healthy, strong, and most of all sane Republican party to keep the Democrats in check. Palin and her supporters are definitely not what the Republican party needs.

302 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:34:06pm

re: #300 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey

My bet is that the next Republican candidate is none of the above

That was my point upthread (#248)

The party that loses the national election is ALWAYS “leaderless and ruderless” for at LEAST 2 years after. We are a mere 10 months beyond it.

303 Equable  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:35:36pm

re: #290 Guanxi88

Thank you Guanxi, that’s a very nice thing to say.

304 Sea Salt  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:37:15pm

I’m happy to see the turn around at LGF. I posted a comment before the election last year, after the Kouric interviews, that I thought Palin was a buffoon. I got down dinged, called a Moby, a Democrat operative, and worst of all, a Canadian, that has no business commenting on US politics.

So nya-nya: I told you so!

305 JRCMYP  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:38:37pm

re: #30 Plato

So it’s Huckabee, Romney, and Pawlenty right now.

I really liked Romney after Thompson fizzled out last time.

But a lot of people aren’t impressed with Romney and I can’t figure out why?

I live in Massachusetts and honestly, I think Romney is a normal guy. He, unfortunately, decided to appeal to the GOP base by suddenly becoming anti-abortion and against marriage equality. He’s been silent on the healthcare debate, which, I’m sure, he just wants to distance himself from. But I think he’s smart, fiscally responsible, made some good decisions for Massachusetts. I wish that Bill Weld was interested in politics again. He might not be presidential material, but he was a solid, normal GOP. I liked him alot. But Bush deep-sixed him.

That’s the sad thing about the last election. All of the moderate Republicans were voted out (i.e. Chris Shays) but all of the wingnuts stayed in. And all of the crazy Democratic congress people. So we have this crazy polarized congress with not many sane people and lots of ideologues.

306 Equable  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:39:28pm

re: #304 Sea Salt

Of course you have business, we’re allies and you are like… our neighbor and stuff.

307 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:40:47pm

re: #154 marjoriemoon

Really? I thought you much older. I’m surprised. Total compliment to you, btw :)

Oh, I quite take it as one. But I’m mid-thirties.

308 SpaceJesus  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:41:35pm

I actually hope there’s a Palin, Ron Paul ticket in 2012. I would have non-stop uncontrollable laughter for at least 5 months every time I flipped on the news.

309 Sea Salt  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:41:55pm

#306

Thanks. I always thought opinions didn’t have borders.

310 SpaceJesus  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:42:49pm

re: #304 Sea Salt

I’m happy to see the turn around at LGF. I posted a comment before the election last year, after the Kouric interviews, that I thought Palin was a buffoon. I got down dinged, called a Moby, a Democrat operative, and worst of all, a Canadian, that has no business commenting on US politics.

So nya-nya: I told you so!

same here. this site’s comment section is actually pretty good now.

311 JRCMYP  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:44:19pm

re: #57 Ben Hur

Romney/Bloomberg?

That’s interesting. I wonder how much faith the populist American public has in Wall Street though. It’s all knee-jerk reaction when it comes down to it.

312 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:44:32pm

re: #160 Right Brain

She lost me at the Katie Couric interview. What was she thinking? Palin was trained as a journalist, spent four years getting a degree in journalism, worked as a journalist (OK Sport Journalist) for years; and she had no clue of the sort of questions that would be asked of her? What do you read? What would you do with Russia? Have you ever negotiated a foreign treaty? Exactly what questions was she expecting?

I was disappointed in the interview, but more disappointed with the follow-up. She didn’t seem to be making any efforts to convince people that had been an off day, and a pack of pundits went on attack telling everyone that we were snobs for being critical.

I was initially rather excited about Palin. I imagined she’d be a common-sense fiscal conservative type, and I liked the profile that had run when she was a long-shot pick.

313 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:49:24pm

re: #245 Guanxi88

Nice young fellows, in white oxford shirts and ties, riding bicycles. I smile every time I see them out and about.

They don’t get NorCal body language training. They get waaay too close when they approach me on the street, and it’s disconcerting.

314 [deleted]  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:49:51pm
315 Sea Salt  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:50:24pm

#312 SanFranciscoZionist

She didn’t seem to be making any efforts to convince people that had been an off day, and a pack of pundits went on attack telling everyone that we were snobs for being critical.

Yes, I thought that was very strange and self-defeating. A person running for high office should be able to answer basic questions coherently. It’s not snobbery to criticize someone who can’t.

316 captdiggs  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:50:41pm

No way will Palin get the nomination…no way.
I’d like to see Tom Ridge run. A true centrist/moderate Republican.
Now that would be a real challenge for Obama.

Just my opinion.

317 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:51:11pm

re: #260 Thanos

I’m betting O’Reilly jumps on this one, he’s been on NAMBLA for years.

You know, it’s one of the things he does that doesn’t upset me much…but connecting other people to them if they’re not connected is absolute scumminess.

318 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:53:56pm

re: #304 Sea Salt

Well then, here’s a downding because
A) I didn’t downding you before (not that I would have, mind you, but oh well)
and
B) more importantly, for the So nya-nya: I told you so! technique of “debate”

:)

319 JRCMYP  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:56:16pm

re: #78 insert name here

Didn’t Romney become more socially conservative when he vied for the nomination last election? If I recall, he’d been pro-abortion when in MA, but then came out against it when pitching himself nationally.

(Please correct me if my memory is screwy.)

You are correct.

320 victor_yugo  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:57:46pm

re: #318 sattv4u2

Then please down-ding this comment as well, to compensate for the two other times I have engaged in the same behavior.

/me braces himself…

321 Sea Salt  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 2:58:47pm

#318 sattv4u2

Fair enough. I shouldn’t have put it that way. But when I was attacked so savagely, I thought, I’m never coming back to this place. It’s full of partisan haters. Gradually I began looking in and the haters had left (or got booted by Charles). But there are still people on LGF who were part of that attack who are still commenting. The naya-nya was for them. Even thought they seemed reformed.

322 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 3:01:51pm

re: #320 victor_yugo

Then please down-ding this comment as well, to compensate for the two other times I have engaged in the same behavior.

/me braces himself…


To me, it’s like a tree falling in the forrest

If I didn’t see it,,,

323 JRCMYP  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 3:02:17pm

re: #85 Charles

The fact is that the only reason Sarah Palin was picked as McCain’s running mate was to bring the religious right on board. She was amazingly unqualified for the job. But James Dobson and the other leaders of the religious right were vehemently opposed to McCain, and were actually calling on their flocks to NOT vote for him — until McCain picked out Palin.

Palin was everything the religious right wanted — hardcore anti-gay and anti-abortion, a creationist, and a graduate of one of the most fanatical Pentecostal sects in America.

That’s why she was McCain’s running mate. And it backfired on him spectacularly.

Backfire how?

324 erraticsphinx  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 3:03:27pm

re: #323 JRCMYP

Uh. He lost?

325 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 3:04:03pm

re: #321 Sea Salt

#318 sattv4u2

Fair enough. I shouldn’t have put it that way. But when I was attacked so savagely, I thought, I’m never coming back to this place. It’s full of partisan haters. Gradually I began looking in and the haters had left (or got booted by Charles). But there are still people on LGF who were part of that attack who are still commenting. The naya-nya was for them. Even thought they seemed reformed.


But you did. In that I wasn;t there at the time, I’ll only ask,

did you come in with a similar Nahh Nahh Boo Boo attitude when you were “attacked so savagely”? Regardless of the issue, people tend to get their backs up when approached in that manner

just asyin!

326 JRCMYP  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 3:04:53pm

re: #324 erraticsphinx

Uh. He lost?

Doh! Ha ha ha! I thought he said it *would* backfire on him! Thanks.

327 Mich-again  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 3:10:22pm

Paul/Palin in 2012. Uh count me out.

328 FrogMarch  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 3:11:25pm

she’d get the base. But that’s just not enough to win.

329 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 3:12:37pm

re: #327 Mich-again

Paul/Palin in 2012. Uh count me out.

Obama/ Biden,,,

me too!

330 Mich-again  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 3:13:56pm

re: #329 sattv4u2

I think its about time we had another Bush. Who’s on deck?
/ducks runs away…

331 victor_yugo  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 3:14:24pm

re: #330 Mich-again

I think its about time we had another Bush. Who’s on deck?
/ducks runs away…

I think there’s a couple in the fridge.

332 wiffersnapper  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 3:16:01pm

Really, and it couldn’t be that we’ve become the party of no and ron paul, is it?

333 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 3:16:16pm

re: #330 Mich-again

I think its about time we had another Bush. Who’s on deck?
/ducks runs away…

I’ll look at the family tree

Maybe there’s one named Rose!

(get it ,,, Rose Bush!!))

(( I crack myself up!))

Eggsactly!

334 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 3:17:13pm

re: #332 wiffersnapper

Really, and it couldn’t be that we’ve become the party of no and ron paul, is it?

You bought into that?

335 Right Brain  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 3:20:11pm

re: #312 SanFranciscoZionist

Right, I expected a feminist, a sensible no-nonsense frontiers woman. Didn’t get it. To this day I have no idea who she is. She honestly seems daffy to me, pretty girl who got promoted on her looks one to many times.

336 sagehen  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 3:25:39pm

re: #330 Mich-again

I think its about time we had another Bush. Who’s on deck?
/ducks runs away…


George P.

Oh yeah, they’re prepping him for 2024.

337 Mich-again  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 3:25:41pm

re: #331 victor_yugo

I think there’s a couple in the fridge.

ha. I wish! Can’t afford the good stuff, Got me a 40 of the Beast.

338 tradewind  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 3:30:45pm

McCain’s advisors never liked her, and the feeling was mutual, evidently.
He’s the one who ’ went rogue’.

339 tradewind  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 3:37:30pm

re: #330 Mich-again

Jeb’s an extremely articulate speaker, outstanding student, and graduated Phi Beta Kappa from University of TX Austin, receiving his B.A. in International Studies and Latin Affairs in two and a half years instead of the usual four, and he probably should have been the one to run after Poppy.

340 SFGoth  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 3:56:59pm

He oughta know about disastrous nominees.

341 Chekote  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 4:00:14pm
Schmidt said “The leadership of the party cannot be outsourced to the conservative-entertainment complex.”

Spot on! Now please Mr. Schimdt inform Mr. Steele.

342 Reginald Perrin  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 4:01:10pm

re: #308 SpaceJesus

If you’re still on the planet, I am on a mission from Dog and need your help with something.
Please contact me asap

343 Surabaya Stew  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 4:04:57pm

re: #304 Sea Salt

I’m happy to see the turn around at LGF. I posted a comment before the election last year, after the Kouric interviews, that I thought Palin was a buffoon. I got down dinged, called a Moby, a Democrat operative, and worst of all, a Canadian, that has no business commenting on US politics.

Didn’t visit LFG last year, but I recall lurking sometime around 2004-5…and the old place really didn’t seem conductive to non-angry commentary at all! Nice turn-around, isn’t it?

344 gregb  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 4:10:49pm

Laughing. As opposed to McCain? VP pick aside, no candiate from the same party has ever won an election by running against his own party. McCain bought into the anti-Bush hysteria.

McCain thought he was special somehow and could beat the odds—so the fault is all his own.

345 Chekote  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 4:17:09pm

Too bad Schmidt didn’t see that catastrophy Palin would be as VP nominee. But I feel encouraged. First, Graham. Now Schimdt. More and more GOPers are realizing that you don’t win election by catering to the SoCons.

346 Chekote  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 4:25:19pm

Given her propensity to exaggerate and distort facts to make herself look better, I do hope the editors will do a thorough fact checking job on Palin’s book.

347 SpaceJesus  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 4:33:23pm

re: #342 Reginald Perrin

If you’re still on the planet, I am on a mission from Dog and need your help with something.
Please contact me asap

Yes, but not for long. Going out soon, will be back around 3 or 4 am roaring drunk and ready for any mission.

348 Reginald Perrin  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 4:46:33pm

re: #347 SpaceJesus

Email me please
We have to wipe out those nasty fleas for dog’s sake!

349 Achilles Tang  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 5:03:16pm

Any press for Palin is good for the faithful, but I doubt it will work for Independents.

350 rollwave87  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 5:17:03pm

I have a lot of respect for Steve Schmidt. I know he’s not a left wing moonbat, but I also know that he isn’t just a Mitt (“buy my snake oil!”) Romney fan boy, so his critizisms of Palin carry the most weight so far for me. And he’s correct that she hasn’t helped herself out at all in the almost 12 months since the election. This being said, a fair read of Schmidt’s comments would lead one to the conclusion that he is implying that if she were to moderate herself and act more like the lady she was when McCain first picked her, a lady who initially engendered great feelings in most Americans according to every poll, she may still have a future. I think that at this point thats where I’m at vis-a-vis Sarah as well.

351 realismrox  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 6:47:48pm

re: #350 rollwave87

I have a lot of respect for Steve Schmidt. I know he’s not a left wing moonbat, but I also know that he isn’t just a Mitt (“buy my snake oil!”) Romney fan boy, so his critizisms of Palin carry the most weight so far for me. And he’s correct that she hasn’t helped herself out at all in the almost 12 months since the election. This being said, a fair read of Schmidt’s comments would lead one to the conclusion that he is implying that if she were to moderate herself and act more like the lady she was when McCain first picked her, a lady who initially engendered great feelings in most Americans according to every poll, she may still have a future. I think that at this point thats where I’m at vis-a-vis Sarah as well.

I don’t think she’s capable of moderating herself, she is really a nut. The lady she was when McCain picked her was a total unknown, who had a well-written speech to deliver. Unfortunately, pretty much everything she has said beyond her first speech and her remarks at the convention has been nonsense. She isn’t the person who recited prepared remarks written by the McCain staff, she who she is.

On a somewhat unrelated point, I think that her facebook post where she talked about the death panels were probably not her own idea either. She doesn’t seem clever enough to come with something like that. I’m not saying that’s she actually stupid, but I wonder if some adviser put this idea in her head.

352 [deleted]  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 6:55:52pm
353 bkgodfrey  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 7:53:54pm

I must say, Steve Schmidt would know a thing or two about running “catastrophic” election bids.

354 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 7:58:42pm

re: #352 jag1ed

That’s silly.

re: #353 bkgodfrey

There’s only so much a person can do with a train wreck like Palin. There, I said it.

355 bkgodfrey  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 8:02:04pm

re: #354 Slumbering Behemoth

Not trying to defend or blame Palin, but do you believe it was Palin’s selection as VP candidate that lost the election?

356 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 8:08:56pm

re: #355 bkgodfrey

I think the choice was a contributing factor, but not the only factor by any means. It certainly didn’t help.

I think it was a ploy to appeal to a certain GOP “base” that is no where near as large or as important as some people seem to think.

357 funky chicken  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 8:20:07pm

re: #339 tradewind

Jeb’s an extremely articulate speaker, outstanding student, and graduated Phi Beta Kappa from University of TX Austin, receiving his B.A. in International Studies and Latin Affairs in two and a half years instead of the usual four, and he probably should have been the one to run after Poppy.

Yep. They should have waited and not put W into the GOP primary in 1999. Jeb most likely would have been a much more effective and competent president than W.

358 bkgodfrey  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 8:23:48pm

re: #356 Slumbering Behemoth

Well I just have to say, Schmidt has some cojones to come out and start pointing fingers about “catastrophic” candidates and election bids. The old adage about first removing the plank from your own eye seems to be fitting here.

359 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 8:27:27pm

re: #358 bkgodfrey

You may have a point about the plank, but it doesn’t change the fact that he is correct in his assessment here.

360 peterb  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 9:01:35pm

Isn’t there usually an “off-year effect” where the better candidates hold back from challenging a Presidential incumbent, which tends to leave the field open for long(er) shot candidates?

From my perspective, that’s why a Palin run in 2012 is likely — she’d have no chance in 2016, but in 2012 the field might be thin enough that she could win the nomination.

361 rollwave87  Fri, Oct 2, 2009 9:07:55pm

re: #351 realismrox

I don’t think she’s capable of moderating herself, she is really a nut. The lady she was when McCain picked her was a total unknown, who had a well-written speech to deliver. Unfortunately, pretty much everything she has said beyond her first speech and her remarks at the convention has been nonsense. She isn’t the person who recited prepared remarks written by the McCain staff, she who she is.

On a somewhat unrelated point, I think that her facebook post where she talked about the death panels were probably not her own idea either. She doesn’t seem clever enough to come with something like that. I’m not saying that’s she actually stupid, but I wonder if some adviser put this idea in her head.

not much I can disagree with there.

362 fire at night  Sat, Oct 3, 2009 1:34:14am

re: #17 Ojoe

Heh, a fellow Whig I take it? I thought I was the only one (seriously).

363 aagcobb  Sat, Oct 3, 2009 5:58:22am

re: #355 bkgodfrey

No, it was George Bush and the economy that lost the election. No vp candidate could have saved McCain’s campaign. Certainly not Romney-he couldn’t get anyone to vote for him, and it wasn’t for lack of money or effort.

364 bkgodfrey  Sat, Oct 3, 2009 6:58:26am

re: #363 aagcobb

This is true, the GOP didn’t have a chance in 08, for a multitude of reasons. It’s unfortunate neither Presidential candidate made any real emphasis on controlling federal spending. We’ve gone from one out of control spending party to another.

365 scrubjay  Sat, Oct 3, 2009 8:38:35am

Not only is Governor Palin the best choice for the GOP nomination in 2012, she is the only choice. I think that we should let the leftist media pick our candidate, not by being the one the promote the most but by being the one they denigrate the most. The vociferousness with which they attack her, even though she is now out of office, is a give-away of their fear of her power to rally the Republican base. That is the precisely type of person we need to achieve victory in 2012.

366 jaunte  Sat, Oct 3, 2009 8:41:14am

re: #365 scrubjay


not by being the one the promote the most but by being the one they denigrate the most.

That’s really a backward way to pick a candidate.

367 scrubjay  Sat, Oct 3, 2009 8:42:35am

re: #366 jaunte

That’s really a backward way to pick a candidate.

Except when it is your opponent doing the picking.

368 jaunte  Sat, Oct 3, 2009 8:46:02am

re: #367 scrubjay

If the GOP runs Sarah Palin, she could rally the ‘base’, but the election would be an 80%-20% Democratic landslide.

369 scrubjay  Sat, Oct 3, 2009 8:52:11am

re: #368 jaunte

If the GOP runs Sarah Palin, she could rally the ‘base’, but the election would be an 80%-20% Democratic landslide.

She would repeat the “Reagan effect” whereby she brings the middle to the right. McCain failed by trying to appeal to the middle. Democrats never moderate their philosophical positions; neither should we. We achieve victory by convincing the middle that we are right. The 2012 election will be an ideal time to do so. Obama is failing in all his domestic and foreign policy initiatives. There is vast disillusionment in independents. We should capitalize on it.

370 jaunte  Sat, Oct 3, 2009 8:54:26am

re: #369 scrubjay

I’m in the middle, and I think Sarah Palin has lost whatever potential she may have started with. She resigned before finishing her term. She’s not the answer.

371 scrubjay  Sat, Oct 3, 2009 8:56:16am

re: #370 jaunte

Many candidates have resigned their current office to seek the presidency, such as Senator Obama.

372 jaunte  Sat, Oct 3, 2009 8:57:13am

re: #371 scrubjay

Not the same thing, really. Palin quit, she didn’t resign to run for higher office.

373 Sharmuta  Sat, Oct 3, 2009 8:57:28am

re: #371 scrubjay

He did not resign his Senate seat.

374 Sharmuta  Sat, Oct 3, 2009 8:59:08am

Nor did McCain resign, or Hillary Clinton, or Joe Biden. In fact- I don’t think any candidate resigned their office to run for the White House.

375 scrubjay  Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:02:52am

re: #372 jaunte
re: #373 Sharmuta

Then let’s put it this way: They didn’t finish their terms in office.

376 Sharmuta  Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:04:16am

re: #375 scrubjay

Resigning your seat because you were elected to a higher office is completely different than resigning your office 2 years before a presidential nomination process.

377 Charles Johnson  Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:05:04am

re: #369 scrubjay

She would repeat the “Reagan effect” whereby she brings the middle to the right.

Sarah Palin is going to bring the middle to the right? You’ve got to be joking. And comparing Sarah “Death Panels” Palin to Ronald Reagan? Good grief.

Palin’s entire appeal is to the far right. She was responsible for turning off the vast majority of centrists who might have been inclined to vote for McCain otherwise. This isn’t even in question. She was brought into the McCain campaign for one reason only — to appeal to the extreme religious right, and get people like James Dobson to drop their opposition to McCain.

Palin is going to appeal to the middle? That’s my first real laugh of the day.

378 jaunte  Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:08:32am

Leaving aside the ‘quitter’ label, (a huge political negative) there’s the real meat of the issue. The middle has seen what Sarah Palin believes in (SoCon divisiveness, sneers at scientific research) and is not impressed.

379 scrubjay  Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:10:56am

re: #377 Charles

I am an athiest and she got me excited about the McCain candidacy. I don’t believe in any kind of hocus-pocus. McCain’s candidacy was moribund until she was selected. I was impressed by her support for free-market economics, her understanding of the necessity for energy independence, and her fiscally responsible operation of Alaska state government. The middle will be drawn to those positions.

380 iceweasel  Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:11:10am

re: #376 Sharmuta

Resigning your seat because you were elected to a higher office is completely different than resigning your office 2 years before a presidential nomination process.

yep. They got promoted by the People. They didn’t run out on the People. Which is what Palin did.

Of all the sad attempts of Palin fans to somehow insist that her running out on her term was actually a form of winning, this particular lie always strikes me as the most pathetic.

381 jackfetch  Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:17:37am

I’m not a huge Palin fan, but her resignation had nothing to do with running for president, and considering the circumstances in Alaska was a reasonable move. She decided that the amount of frivolous legal action being taken against her as governor was hampering the office’s ability to function, and she was probably right.

Notice, I’m not saying that this makes her an ideal candidate for president, and she’d make an even larger target for attacks pursuing national office, however I do think that the “quitter” label does her an injustice.

382 Charles Johnson  Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:23:20am

re: #381 jackfetch

I’m not a huge Palin fan, but her resignation had nothing to do with running for president, and considering the circumstances in Alaska was a reasonable move. She decided that the amount of frivolous legal action being taken against her as governor was hampering the office’s ability to function, and she was probably right.

Notice, I’m not saying that this makes her an ideal candidate for president, and she’d make an even larger target for attacks pursuing national office, however I do think that the “quitter” label does her an injustice.

If she didn’t want to be called a “quitter,” she shouldn’t have quit in the middle of her elected term. It’s sad to see people scraping the absolute bottom of the excuse barrel to try to defend it.

383 jaunte  Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:23:27am

re: #381 jackfetch

What that decision looked like was that she decided to leave office based on what was best for herself, and tried to make the excuse that it was best for the office. It was questionable.

384 iceweasel  Sat, Oct 3, 2009 9:35:07am

re: #383 jaunte

What that decision looked like was that she decided to leave office based on what was best for herself, and tried to make the excuse that it was best for the office. It was questionable.

You know what — if she’d done it because it really was what was best for her family or whatever I wouldn’t be as harsh. The whole first weekend I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt in that regard. Maybe someone was sick, maybe it had to do with the baby, etc. Her announcement itself and her final exit speech pretty much belied that notion though, as they were filled with mudslinging and fingerpointing and blaming ‘the media’ and the other usual suspects.

She quit. She quit because she was dead in the water up there and wanted to capitalise on the book and any other financial opportunities while she still could. And she had the chutzpah to turn her quitting into more red meat for the base— an extended whine about how horrible everyone else has been to her, and it’s really everyone else’s fault but her own that she is a quitter. That was her whole schtick as a candidate too— throw blame, fingerpoint, whip up rage, you betcha.

I’m somewhat surprised no one has done a youtube version of her goodbye performances called Leave Sarah ALOOONE! Maybe they have and I’ve missed it.

385 Sacred Plants  Sat, Oct 3, 2009 10:53:07am

re: #250 sattv4u2

The point is, the “losing party” NEVER has a rudder or a leader within 2 + years after the last (lost) election.

The point is not that the election cycle provides a reasonable delay for a defeated party to do the necessary soul-searching and regroup.

The point that the current American foreign policy will work or fail with the assumption that Persia cannot obtain long range missiles which would enable it to blackmail Europe into abandoning Israel.

If the case that happens, will the opposition have a rudder who is aware of the icebergs ahead, or will the post be unmanned because Ron Paul´s Golden Elephant of Monetary Appeasement (cc) is what everyone is dancing around?

386 Sacred Plants  Sat, Oct 3, 2009 12:52:29pm

The point is that…

In the case that…

/PIMF


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