Video: Riot Guards Beg for Forgiveness

WorldDecember 2009 • Views: 13,333

The description for this video at YouTube translates what’s going on:

People have cornered these security forces. People ask them ‘why do you do this to your people?’ and the riot guards ask for forgiveness, ‘Bebakhshid’ they can be heard to say.

‘You are Yazid’s - the Khalif against whom the Ashura uprising took place -forces’, the woman shouts at them. One of the protesters then reassures them that they will not be beaten up, all they have to do is say Khameneii is a bastard. The woman can then be heard saying ‘All you can do is kill your people is it?’ and again they plead saying ‘Please We are not killers’.

The sooner they join the people, the sooner they will redeem themselves with the people of Iran.

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317 comments

rwmofo Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:13:23pm

I'm optimistic. We're seeing baby steps toward Iran being eventually governed by the people, rather than by the Mullahs. More blood will be shed, unfortunately, but the people will get their way - hopefully soon.

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:13:52pm

re: #1 rwmofo

I'm optimistic. We're seeing baby steps toward Iran being eventually governed by the people, rather than by the Mullahs. More blood will be shed, unfortunately, but the people will get their way - hopefully soon.

From your lips to God's ears.

Almost Killed by Space Hookers Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:14:20pm

Thugs sure loose their guts when they aren't outnumbering and out gunning others...

captdiggs Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:14:31pm

We are witnessing a democratic revolution. It doesn't happen all that often, and I hope that our administration and others will do all they can to support it.
It's the world's best chance at avoiding a military confrontation with Iran.
A successful felling of the theocracy would create a new middle east. One that does not have the bloody fingerprints of the current Iranian rulers that will be far more peaceful.

Walter L. Newton Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:16:26pm

re: #3 LudwigVanQuixote

Thugs sure loose their guts when they aren't outnumbering and out gunning others...

Funny how that works.

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:16:57pm

re: #4 captdiggs

We are witnessing a democratic revolution. It doesn't happen all that often, and I hope that our administration and others will do all they can to support it.
It's the world's best chance at avoiding a military confrontation with Iran.
A successful felling of the theocracy would create a new middle east. One that does not have the bloody fingerprints of the current Iranian rulers that will be far more peaceful.

Quite Concur.

Killgore Trout Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:18:07pm

re: #1 rwmofo

I'm optimistic. We're seeing baby steps toward Iran being eventually governed by the people, rather than by the Mullahs. More blood will be shed, unfortunately, but the people will get their way - hopefully soon.

Me too. I think the mullahs are pretty well entrenched for now but this will continue to wear them down. It's going to take a while but this is s good sign.

reine.de.tout Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:19:42pm

Wow. An amazing video.
We didn't see anything near like this before.

darthstar Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:21:19pm

Sheesh. Shit's really hitting the fan in Iran right now. Heard a bit about it on the road up to Tahoe today when listening to NPR. I'm guessing the Ayatollah is reconsidering the wisdom of declaring the election for Ahmadinejad 90 minutes after the polls closed and before a vote was counted.

Peace to the Iranian people. Best of luck with your quest.

captdiggs Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:24:20pm

re: #6 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur.

If the theocracy falls, the effects would be astounding.
Syria, Hezbollah, Hamas...all go down with the Iranian theocracy. It would be an entirely new dynamic in the region. The effects would reach as far as Chavez in Venezuela.

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:24:57pm

re: #9 darthstar

Sheesh. Shit's really hitting the fan in Iran right now. Heard a bit about it on the road up to Tahoe today when listening to NPR. I'm guessing the Ayatollah is reconsidering the wisdom of declaring the election for Ahmadinejad 90 minutes after the polls closed and before a vote was counted.

Peace to the Iranian people. Best of luck with your quest.

Peace to the people, and extinction to their overlords.

sadhu Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:25:12pm

FREEDOM

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:27:08pm

re: #12 sadhu

Can't imagine life without it. People imagine life with it.

sffilk Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:27:15pm

re: #10 captdiggs

If the theocracy falls, the effects would be astounding.
Syria, Hezbollah, Hamas...all go down with the Iranian theocracy. It would be an entirely new dynamic in the region. The effects would reach as far as Chavez in Venezuela.

One can only hope.

Walter L. Newton Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:28:10pm

re: #10 captdiggs

If the theocracy falls, the effects would be astounding.
Syria, Hezbollah, Hamas...all go down with the Iranian theocracy. It would be an entirely new dynamic in the region. The effects would reach as far as Chavez in Venezuela.

I agree with all of your sentiment, but how does what is happening now get up to the level of the mullahs? Unless I don't understand the situation, the people are pushing against the government right now, not so much, and not so able to push against the holders of the theocracy? Aren't the mullahs sort of insulated?

Charles Johnson Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:31:10pm

Wow. The comments at Hot Air about Janet Napolitano are amazingly deranged and misogynistic.

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:32:29pm

re: #15 Walter L. Newton

I agree with all of your sentiment, but how does what is happening now get up to the level of the mullahs? Unless I don't understand the situation, the people are pushing against the government right now, not so much, and not so able to push against the holders of the theocracy? Aren't the mullahs sort of insulated?

Insulated from direct attacks, maybe, but any change forced by the protesters would be one that reduced the mullahs' power. Thus they have every incentive to resist.

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:32:53pm

re: #16 Charles

Wow. The comments at Hot Air about Janet Napolitano are amazingly deranged and misogynistic.

Samples?

Almost Killed by Space Hookers Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:33:19pm

re: #16 Charles

Wow. The comments at Hot Air about Janet Napolitano are amazingly deranged and misogynistic.

Why would we expect better. Hot Air, Malkin, RSM, Rush, Coulter, Beck... they all carefully pander to thugs. They get thugs.

Charles Johnson Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:34:02pm

From Hot Air's Napolitano thread:

ENOUGH OF THE LIBATARD “P.C.” KRAP, IF IT WALKS LIKE A DUCK, PRAYS LIKE A DUCK AND SEWS EXPLOSIVES INTO ITS UNDERWEAR THEN IT MUST BE A TERRORIST.. FORGET THE DON’T FLY LIST, BAN ALL OF THE MOOOOSLUMS FROM AMAERICA..JUST LOOK IN AT THE NEWS TO SEE WHAT THEY HAVE DONE TO EUROPE…

AMERICAN VETERAN on December 27, 2009 at 4:05 PM

Walter L. Newton Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:35:12pm

re: #17 Dark_Falcon

Insulated from direct attacks, maybe, but any change forced by the protesters would be one that reduced the mullahs' power. Thus they have every incentive to resist.

How, I guess that's what I don't understand. They don't walk the streets, they are not the government employees, the police etc. They are insulated, they have their own "army." They exist above the rest of the infrastructure. How do the people topple them. There would have to be total cooperation from what ever government is left.

captdiggs Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:36:13pm

re: #15 Walter L. Newton

I agree with all of your sentiment, but how does what is happening now get up to the level of the mullahs? Unless I don't understand the situation, the people are pushing against the government right now, not so much, and not so able to push against the holders of the theocracy? Aren't the mullahs sort of insulated?

I think that this is far more than merely the election results.
I believe that there is a strong undercurrent of system change to this revolution.
The mullah's are the Guardian Council that really control Iran and I believe that their system of controlling elections, the basij thugs, the Revolutionary Guards, sharia law...all of it, is really on the line.

This is a movement that has started with the more educated and secular and I don't think a simple change of name at the top is all they are seeking.

At least that's my opinion. :)

Walter L. Newton Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:39:23pm

re: #22 captdiggs

I think that this is far more than merely the election results.
I believe that there is a strong undercurrent of system change to this revolution.
The mullah's are the Guardian Council that really control Iran and I believe that their system of controlling elections, the basij thugs, the Revolutionary Guards, sharia law...all of it, is really on the line.

This is a movement that has started with the more educated and secular and I don't think a simple change of name at the top is all they are seeking.

At least that's my opinion. :)

Maybe I being vague. I mean, how do the people actually get to the mullahs? They can't just walk in on them and remove them, not without the help of the government and other officials higher up. Protesting and beating up a few police is a big difference than actually storming some mullah headquarter or how ever they are situated.

I'm not saying I don't want this to happen, or it won't I just don't understand the logistics of how it would happen.

darthstar Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:42:10pm

re: #20 Charles

From Hot Air's Napolitano thread:

That guy's about as much an American veteran as I am.

captdiggs Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:42:51pm

re: #23 Walter L. Newton

It can happen if and when the mullah's private armies turn or crumble.
The mullahs might retain nominal power, but Iran could and probably would become a secular Islamic nation that ceases to meddle in proxy wars throughout the middle east.
The real key is the regular Iranian army...whose side do they fall on?

Mich-again Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:43:12pm

Regarding the video, these are Iranian police, not the Basij. They are part of the civilian security forces, not the Mullah's personal army. When these security forces turn on the Basij, then it will get very interesting.

reine.de.tout Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:44:30pm

Am I remembering correctly that post 9/11 measures were put into place during the Bush administration?

And . . .has the Obama administration made many changes to that system?

And . . . if not, how is it Janet Napolitano's fault that a hole was found in the system?

The remarks she made were very odd, she could not have been thinking straight when she made them, imo. But the bottom line is now, THIS administration needs to fix this problem that's been discovered. Neither the Bush administration NOR the Obama administration can fix a flaw in the system until it's been found to exist.

I would, of course, prefer that these flaws be found BEFORE any of these guys get on a plane. But what happened, happened, and now is the time to figure out what to do about it, not fire the person who needs to be leading the effort to figure out what to do about it.

Gus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:44:31pm

re: #20 Charles

From Hot Air's Napolitano thread:

Here's one from Quote of the Day:

President is on vacation in his native state of Hawaii

LOFL. They feel the need to assert that the Sanguine Kenyan was born on that America hating island.

Buddahpundit on December 27, 2009 at 9:40 PM

reine.de.tout Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:45:13pm

re: #26 Mich-again

Regarding the video, these are Iranian police, not the Basij. They are part of the civilian security forces, not the Mullah's personal army. When these security forces turn on the Basij, then it will get very interesting.

It looked to me like they were not too far away from turning.
I thought this was an amazing video, just amazing.

Mich-again Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:46:04pm

re: #25 captdiggs

The real key is the regular Iranian army...whose side do they fall on?

Well, if the Mullahs really trusted the Iranian army, they wouldn't need their own army. They know where the loyalty lies.

Baier Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:48:38pm

The BBC is reporting the White House has made a statement

The White House condemned the "unjust suppression" of protests.
"Hope and history are on the side of those who peacefully seek their universal rights, and so is the United States," White House National Security Council spokesman Mike Hammer said.

A spokesman for the French foreign ministry, Bernard Bolero, also condemned the violence.

"These people in the streets are just claiming more freedom, more democracy," he told the BBC. "The repression of the police forces is not acceptable."

SteveMcG Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:49:11pm

I'm not buying that Hamas and Syria crumble if the theocracy falls. They'll get their funding, and my hunch would be that whatever replaces the theocracy will be pretty passive for a while.

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:49:28pm

re: #28 Gus 802

President is on vacation in his native state of Hawaii

LOFL. They feel the need to assert that the Sanguine Kenyan was born on that America hating island.

Buddahpundit on December 27, 2009 at 9:40 PM

Wow. All that hate crammed into one sentence. What a vile person Buddahpundit must be.

Mich-again Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:49:48pm

re: #29 reine.de.tout

It looked to me like they were not too far away from turning.
I thought this was an amazing video, just amazing.

I also think it is amazing video, but I am not so surprised to see a cornered Persian buckling under like that. Unlike their feline namesakes, they are cowards when confronted.

Bagua Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:51:05pm

Let's not get too optimistic here. We are seeing a little win were a few riot guards have been cornered. How are the going to corner the Basij when they start using AK-47s? The videos smuggled out will look very different.

reine.de.tout Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:51:16pm

re: #34 Mich-again

I also think it is amazing video, but I am not so surprised to see a cornered Persian buckling under like that. Unlike their feline namesakes, they are cowards when confronted.

Those people in the crowds are not cowards.

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:51:44pm

re: #35 Bagua

Let's not get too optimistic here. We are seeing a little win were a few riot guards have been cornered. How are the going to corner the Basij when they start using AK-47s? The videos smuggled out will look very different.

Regretfully Concur.

irving Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:52:32pm

It's really optimistic to assume that if (knocking on wood even more furiously) the current Iranian government falls its replacement would be friendly to the U.S. Of course, I think we'd all settle for "less hostile", but still. Iran really, really, really needs to go its own way. It's not an unfair argument to suggest we ended up with the current mess by interfering the first time around, after all.

Mich-again Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:53:51pm

re: #32 SteveMcG

I'm not buying that Hamas and Syria crumble if the theocracy falls. They'll get their funding, and my hunch would be that whatever replaces the theocracy will be pretty passive for a while.

Where do you suppose Hizbollah got all those suitcases full of cash that they were spreading around Southern Lebanon after the war with Israel trying to regain some goodwill after causing all those villages to get blown to smithereens. That cash was right from their sugar mullahs. When that cash flow dries up, it will definately affect their business model.

Mich-again Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:54:24pm

re: #36 reine.de.tout

Those people in the crowds are not cowards.

I was talking about the police who were.

miclaine Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:55:01pm

re: #36 reine.de.tout

Agree - Do not confuse the arabs who are often depicted as running from their opponents with the Persians.

captdiggs Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:55:13pm

You never know how things like this can play out.
I'm sure that Louis XVI never believed that the street rabble would be the end of the French monarchy.

You just never know.

Dancing along the light of day Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:55:42pm

I don't think any of the people participating in Iran, deserve to be called cowards. Not the rioters or the police.

Sheila Broflovski Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:56:09pm

re: #35 Bagua

Let's not get too optimistic here. We are seeing a little win were a few riot guards have been cornered. How are the going to corner the Basij when they start using AK-47s? The videos smuggled out will look very different.

I'm thinking that many of the police may decide to join the people.

Killgore Trout Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:59:09pm

OT: for the Garden geeks
Introduction to Aquaponics

Vimeo

This guy is in Hawaii so he does have the advantage of having a large scale system outdoors year round but there's no reason you couldn't try a small scale system in a greenhouse, sun room or even your basement if you invest in some artificial lighting. He's raising talapia but I suppose you could also use carp or possibly even crayfish. You could even have a system in your back yard and just run it from early spring through to late fall in most climates.

Bagua Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:59:42pm

re: #44 Alouette

I'm thinking that many of the police may decide to join the people.

The police are of no consequence. The Basij have the real weapons and will protect the Mullah dictatorship, that is their role.

reine.de.tout Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:59:48pm

re: #44 Alouette

I'm thinking that many of the police may decide to join the people.

It sure looked to me like those guys in the video were ready to join the people.

I'm not optimistic that the current round of demonstrations will result in a regime change. But this video, with the security forces being confronted by the demonstrators - this is different from what we saw before. Much different.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:59:48pm

re: #43 Floral Giraffe

There probably some high priests and politicians hiding...

Jane_in_Colorado Sun, Dec 27, 2009 6:59:54pm

What's happening in Iran breaks my heart. I have known many Persians. They are a great people, in the grip of small-minded dictators. The courage to keep an uprising going in the face of so much repression... well, I take my hat off to them. I don't think the resistance can be crushed now. It it could have been done, it would have been done. But where does it end? Unfortunately, probably not anyplace good. Even supposing the mullahs are overthrown, who sits down and writes the constitution? Will they turn to other religious authorities or try to invent a whole new form of government for themselves? That has turned out well a couple of times in human history--I can think of an example :)--but honestly, not often.

Still, what can you do except be in awe of such courage?

Killgore Trout Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:00:15pm

re: #45 Killgore Trout

If you'd like to learn more you can get his book: Olomana Gardens Permaculture and Aquaponics

jayzee Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:00:39pm

re: #42 captdiggs

You never know how things like this can play out.
I'm sure that Louis XVI never believed that the street rabble would be the end of the French monarchy.

You just never know.

Not the most optimistic comparison you could make. Let's not forget this aspect of the revolution.

Mich-again Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:01:07pm

re: #43 Floral Giraffe

I don't think any of the people participating in Iran, deserve to be called cowards. Not the rioters or the police.

Either the cop in riot gear beating unarmed demonstrators over the head with a stick is a coward right then or he is one five minutes later when hes begging for mercy from the same people he was just beating over the head.

Killgore Trout Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:02:41pm

re: #47 reine.de.tout

It sure looked to me like those guys in the video were ready to join the people.

I'm not optimistic that the current round of demonstrations will result in a regime change. But this video, with the security forces being confronted by the demonstrators - this is different from what we saw before. Much different.

I think what going to have to happen is the police/Basij are going to have to feel that there's a safe future for them if they side with the protesters. If they flip too soon they'll be thrown in prison or worse. Once they feel the regime is going to topple I don't think they'll have much trouble switching sides.

reine.de.tout Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:04:13pm

re: #45 Killgore Trout

Got it!

Dancing along the light of day Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:04:42pm

re: #52 Mich-again

I guess I'm just not comfortable using the word "coward" while posting from my nice, comfy, safe home in the USA.

Killgore Trout Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:04:46pm

re: #54 reine.de.tout

Got it!

Thanks!

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:04:51pm

Where are their posters of Khameini with a Hitler mustache drawn in? Where are their misspelled signs quoting short snippets of famous writings out of context? Don't these people know they can't properly fight tyranny without such things?

/note to both the American right and left: you do not live in a fucking tyranny, and you are a victim of nothing except the bullshit you enjoy believing.

Mich-again Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:05:06pm

Iran has been waging war against Israel and the USA by proxy for years, even decades. Cowardice on a National scale. They won't declare a war, they just quietly arm and support their terrorist armies around the entire region pretending to not have any involvement.

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:05:47pm

re: #53 Killgore Trout

I think what going to have to happen is the police/Basij are going to have to feel that there's a safe future for them if they side with the protesters. If they flip too soon they'll be thrown in prison or worse. Once they feel the regime is going to topple I don't think they'll have much trouble switching sides.

Concur. People often sit on the fence till they think they know which side will win. Its not very brave, but the brave people who pick a side early stand a much better chance of dying young, so the parents of the next generation are the fence-sitters.

rwmofo Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:06:02pm

re: #49 Jane_in_Colorado

"But where does it end? Unfortunately, probably not anyplace good. Even supposing the mullahs are overthrown, who sits down and writes the constitution?"

The median age in Iran is about 27. Additionally, these people have had a taste of western ways for several years now and they like it. There's no easy, quick solution, but the people will force change. I think it will occur by 2020 - hopefully sooner.

NogenDavid Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:06:12pm

#30

There is reason to believe the Iranian army opposes the Revolutionary Guard, according to the December 12 article by Afshin Ellian (feel free to google it, I don't want to breach any link sensitivities here).

The RG has more than ideology and power at stake - they make a ton of money.

HIstory teaches you can stay in power in the face of popular opposition indefinitely if you are vicious enough. Regimes tend to fall when their leaders have at least some scruples about the mass killing civilians. Louix XVI, the Shah, Gorbachev, they all did.

Regimes can also fall, more rarely, when the army won't pull the trigger. That's how the coup against Yeltskin failed.

Or regimes can fall to coups led by the army.

Maybe the army (or some elements in the RG itself?) will restrain the
thugocracy, or even initiate a takeover.

The prospect of severe sanctions from the West might create some material interest in bringing down Ahmadinejad. In the longer run, maybe the army will be concerned that a crazy regime will provoke a convention or nuclear response.

I am cautiously pessimistic, because the Ahmadinejad regime is crazy and vicious and wealthy enough to stay in power.

But this is the most pivotal news story in the world today by far, and kudos to LGF for sticking with it.

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:07:32pm

re: #57 negativ

Where are their posters of Khameini with a Hitler mustache drawn in? Where are their misspelled signs quoting short snippets of famous writings out of context? Don't these people know they can't properly fight tyranny without such things?

/note to both the American right and left: you do not live in a fucking tyranny, and you are a victim of nothing except the bullshit you enjoy believing.

Iran is showing what real revolution looks like. If Medea Benjamin or Glen Beck had to face down what those protesters are fighting they'd crap their pants.

Interesting Times Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:07:46pm

re: #44 Alouette

I'm thinking that many of the police may decide to join the people.

The more I look at it, the more I wonder if the situation in Iran might follow this script: Romanian Revolution of 1989

rwmofo Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:11:19pm

re: #62 Dark_Falcon

Iran is showing what real revolution looks like. If Medea Benjamin or Glen Beck had to face down what those protesters are fighting they'd crap their pants.

It would be fun to watch those two running away screaming - and I bet Medea would out-run Beck.

Mich-again Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:12:59pm

re: #62 Dark_Falcon
You could say that for oh about 99% of the tea party crowd.

Stuart Leviton Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:15:19pm

re: #12 sadhu

FREEDOM

کلمات مرتبط (freedom)

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:19:26pm

re: #66 Stuart Leviton

I hope I just dinged what you told me I dinged...

The Sanity Inspector Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:20:15pm

re: #3 LudwigVanQuixote

Thugs sure loose their guts when they aren't outnumbering and out gunning others...

Doesn't sound like they're sure they have Allah on their side anymore.

Jane_in_Colorado Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:21:26pm

re: #60 rwmofo

"But where does it end? Unfortunately, probably not anyplace good. Even supposing the mullahs are overthrown, who sits down and writes the constitution?"

The median age in Iran is about 27. Additionally, these people have had a taste of western ways for several years now and they like it. There's no easy, quick solution, but the people will force change. I think it will occur by 2020 - hopefully sooner.

You make a good point. There are also all the Persian exiles in the West from Khomeini's revolution, many of whom have maintained contact with family in Iran. I think change is coming sooner--a lot sooner--than 2020. Iran cannot go on as it is, with all its young in the streets on every public occasion, facing off against security forces. With the nephew, now, of the rightful winner of the election, murdered by security forces. According to Sully, this nephew is in the bloodline of the martyred Imam Ali. That matters in Shia Iran.

But my point was different. It was: what happens after? At some point there will be complete revolution. I think it's close to unavoidable now. The elders will grow sick of watching their brave children die. The security forces will, one day, refuse to fire. What then? What model do the Iranian people have to follow when inventing a new form of government? They've done the Islamic thing, and they're sick to death of it. Where then do they go?

The Sanity Inspector Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:23:03pm

re: #57 negativ

Where are their posters of Khameini with a Hitler mustache drawn in? Where are their misspelled signs quoting short snippets of famous writings out of context? Don't these people know they can't properly fight tyranny without such things?

/note to both the American right and left: you do not live in a fucking tyranny, and you are a victim of nothing except the bullshit you enjoy believing.

Shorter:

You are not as good as you think, nor is the world as bad as you think.
--Rabbi Wolf of Strikov

Sheila Broflovski Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:24:10pm

re: #69 Jane_in_Colorado

What model do the Iranian people have to follow when inventing a new form of government? They've done the Islamic thing, and they're sick to death of it. Where then do they go?

What about that Zoroastrian thing?

Jane_in_Colorado Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:27:18pm

re: #71 Alouette

What about that Zoroastrian thing?

Long gone. :)

Stuart Leviton Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:28:20pm

re: #67 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I hope I just dinged what you told me I dinged...

Me too! I don't read farsi.

Stuart Leviton Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:33:39pm

re: #66 Stuart Leviton

کلمات مرتبط (freedom)

ازادى (freedom)

// The previous version was the third mistake I made in my entire life. Those words meant 'related words'. Turns out google does translate farsi.

zephirus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:36:25pm

re: #57 negativ

Memo to teabaggers: THIS is what a struggle against actual tyranny looks like.

Olsonist Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:38:00pm

re: #34 Mich-again

I didn't quite understand this.

miclaine Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:39:22pm

re: #75 zephirus

Teabaggers? or Tea Partyers? Me thinks you mean Tea Partyers. Cuz I'd really be struggling with Tyrannical Teabaggers.

zephirus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:39:33pm

re: #69 Jane_in_Colorado

What model do the Iranian people have to follow when inventing a new form of government? They've done the Islamic thing, and they're sick to death of it. Where then do they go?

This may take a while to figure out.

Jane_in_Colorado Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:40:06pm

I've copied this from Sully's site. It's a quotation from the martyred Imam Ali:

"... Don't you see that the truth is not put into action and the false is not prohibited? The believer should desire to meet his Lord while he is right. Thus I do not see death but as happiness, and living with tyrants but as sorrow."

I think it helps explains why passions are running so high in Iran, and why the protesters are not backing down. Why their courage is so amazing; why they are sacrificing their lives. For them, I believe, it is a religious as well as a political crisis. It's not just their freedom but their souls which are at risk.

The Sanity Inspector Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:41:17pm

re: #77 miclaine

Teabaggers? or Tea Partyers? Me thinks you mean Tea Partyers. Cuz I'd really be struggling with Tyrannical Teabaggers.

I can't offhand think of another group of disgruntled Americans whom it seems to be okay to call sexual slurs.

allegro Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:44:35pm

re: #80 The Sanity Inspector

What sexual slur? *confused look*

The Sanity Inspector Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:45:30pm

re: #81 allegro

What sexual slur? *confused look*

If you don't know, you wouldn't want to know, is my feeling.

Olsonist Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:46:52pm

re: #77 miclaine

They prefer to be called Tea Partiers. Unfortunately when they first organized they called themselves the Teabaggers oblivious to the other meaning. They have since changed the name. Sort of.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:46:57pm

re: #82 The Sanity Inspector

yep

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:48:13pm

Total Scope of Motivation Unknown
(you can say that again!)

However:
Internet Ego "CN4Iran" Circumvents Chinese Block to Support Iran

allegro Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:53:04pm

re: #83 Olsonist

Ohhhhh. :/ Thanks for the link... I think.

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:53:16pm

re: #80 The Sanity Inspector

If I had Mel Brooks' phone number, I could probably get you a list.

(/)

Velvet Elvis Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:53:46pm

re: #83 Olsonist

They prefer to be called Tea Partiers. Unfortunately when they first organized they called themselves the Teabaggers oblivious to the other meaning. They have since changed the name. Sort of.

It was much more fun when they called themselves tea baggers. Not just because of the sexual innuendo but because at the time of the Boston tea party they didn't have tea bags. To make their protest authentic they should have used loose tea.

allegro Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:55:17pm

re: #88 Conservative Moonbat

To make their protest authentic they should have used loose tea.

Now that I've looked at that wikipedia link, the thought of loose tea has its own freaky connotations.

zephirus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:56:06pm

re: #88 Conservative Moonbat

It was much more fun when they called themselves tea baggers. Not just because of the sexual innuendo but because at the time of the Boston tea party they didn't have tea bags. To make their protest authentic they should have used loose tea.

Would be difficult to staple loose tea to a hat.

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:58:13pm

re: #4 captdiggs

We are witnessing a democratic revolution. It doesn't happen all that often, and I hope that our administration and others will do all they can to support it.
It's the world's best chance at avoiding a military confrontation with Iran.
A successful felling of the theocracy would create a new middle east. One that does not have the bloody fingerprints of the current Iranian rulers that will be far more peaceful.

And yet we have calls on this very blog for us to take this opportunity to invade and shell Iran.

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:58:52pm

re: #91 WindUpBird

In the comments, obviously. Just to make that clear!

Escaped Hillbilly Sun, Dec 27, 2009 7:59:54pm

re: #90 zephirus

Maybe I shouldn't say but...there's this thing called a tea ball. You could dangle it from your hat.

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:01:31pm

re: #91 WindUpBird

And yet we have calls on this very blog for us to take this opportunity to invade and shell Iran.

No one has called for an invasion. Bagua and I have called for airstrikes to cripple the Mullah regime and aid in its overthrow.

Olsonist Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:02:22pm

re: #88 Conservative Moonbat

A little Wikipedia checking. Arguably the term dates to Feb 19, perhaps with the mention of the Chicago Tea Party. Then there is this article with a photo saying Tea Bag The Liberal Dems Before They Tea Bag You.

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:02:36pm

re: #80 The Sanity Inspector

I can't offhand think of another group of disgruntled Americans whom it seems to be okay to call sexual slurs.

I wouldn't really characterize "teabagging" as a slur, more just ironic mockery of ultra-right-wing Birchers who tend towards being social ultra-conservatives and anti-gay.

And I'll keep calling them teabaggers, because it makes me giggle.

Racer X Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:02:51pm

Scott Stulberg Photography

Beautiful images.

Olsonist Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:03:35pm

re: #80 The Sanity Inspector

Yankees?

reine.de.tout Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:04:13pm

According to Tehran's police chief, the security forces had no weapons, and no one was killed.

100

Jane_in_Colorado Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:04:26pm

re: #94 Dark_Falcon

No one has called for an invasion. Bagua and I have called for airstrikes to cripple the Mullah regime and aid in its overthrow.

Worst thing that could happen. We cannot help them. Any attempt would hurt them. That time may come, but it is not now. Any aggression from the US at this point would simply collapse the revolution and cause Iranians to rally under their horrible leaders. It's not enough to wish people well. You have to think about how to do it in a way that works.

101

Killgore Trout Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:04:43pm

re: #96 WindUpBird

,,,and they should have thought of that when they were picking names for their stupid protest movement.

102

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:04:53pm

re: #99 reine.de.tout

According to Tehran's police chief, the security forces had no weapons, and no one was killed.

He can spew that BS if he wants to, but I don't believe it.

103

Racer X Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:05:05pm

re: #94 Dark_Falcon

No one has called for an invasion. Bagua and I have called for airstrikes to cripple the Mullah regime and aid in its overthrow.

Dude, that would be the worst thing we could do right now. It would surely rally the Iranians against a long-time foe - The Evil U.S.A.

104

zephirus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:05:24pm

re: #94 Dark_Falcon

Last I heard, they would prefer that we stay out of it.

105

Olsonist Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:06:49pm

re: #94 Dark_Falcon

Fine. That's your suggestion. My suggestion? ~~Double~~ Triple the number of student visas for Iranians to study in the US.

106

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:07:28pm

re: #94 Dark_Falcon

No one has called for an invasion. Bagua and I have called for airstrikes to cripple the Mullah regime and aid in its overthrow.

If we attack them outright, we'll further calcify the opinion of middle east against us, and ruin all the progress that Iran's green revolution has done. By shelling them, we delegitimze them. it's a nice thought, that we can just bomb them and help out, and I wish it were true, but that's now how it works. We can't cripple the Mullah regime any more than some country could shell the US and cripple the idea of Christianity or Catholicism.

What we actually want, is for the Mullah regime to look at the prevailing winds, and emerge on the side of the green. They're politicians, they'll pick the winning side. That gives us what we want. And if we bomb them, we make that impossible.

107

reine.de.tout Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:07:31pm

re: #94 Dark_Falcon

No one has called for an invasion. Bagua and I have called for airstrikes to cripple the Mullah regime and aid in its overthrow.

DF, we often agree, but on this one - I think this would not accomplish anything, at least not quickly enough to do anyone any good whatsoever.

As unfortunate as it is for the safety of those demonstrators, outside force would not be the best thing to do.

108

Killgore Trout Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:07:52pm

It's early morning in Iran. News should start flowing again soon. Calls for a national strike today. We'll see how that goes. Twitters worth following: #ashura and #iranelection

109

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:08:44pm

re: #103 Racer X

Dude, that would be the worst thing we could do right now. It would surely rally the Iranians against a long-time foe - The Evil U.S.A.

YES, EXACTLY, UPDINGS FOR YOU :D

I'm exactly opposite you on many issues, but we are exactly aligned on this one.

110

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:09:19pm

re: #105 Olsonist

Fine. That's your suggestion. My suggestion? ~~Double~~ Triple the number of student visas for Iranians to study in the US.

I'd be okay with that!

111

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:10:06pm

re: #106 WindUpBird

If we attack them outright, we'll further calcify the opinion of middle east against us, and ruin all the progress that Iran's green revolution has done. By shelling them, we delegitimze them. it's a nice thought, that we can just bomb them and help out, and I wish it were true, but that's now how it works. We can't cripple the Mullah regime any more than some country could shell the US and cripple the idea of Christianity or Catholicism.

What we actually want, is for the Mullah regime to look at the prevailing winds, and emerge on the side of the green. They're politicians, they'll pick the winning side. That gives us what we want. And if we bomb them, we make that impossible.

Perhaps its not the best idea. If its not then lets not use it. But we need to find ways of exerting pressure. We need to be rid of the mullahcracy, and soon.

112

reine.de.tout Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:10:33pm

re: #102 Dark_Falcon

He can spew that BS if he wants to, but I don't believe it.

I don't either!
Good grief, there is too much information getting out via twitter and other sources! I'm just passing along the interesting info I find. . .

113

Spare O'Lake Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:10:33pm

I'm sure we would all love to see regime change in Iran and we all support the opposition.
However, there is really little or no evidence that the current opposition would give up Iran's nuke ambitions, or that they would suddenly become pro-US and pro-Israeli - a decrease in support for proxy terror may be a more realistic goal.
Similarly, there is little evidence that the opposition would strip the Mullahs of their political power - a somewhat more moderate mullahcracy may be all that they realistically hope for.
The current opposition is driven largely by a thirst for increased internal economic prosperity and enhanced internal human rights.
Of course this may change very quickly, and not necessarily for the better.

114

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:11:56pm

re: #111 Dark_Falcon

Perhaps its not the best idea. If its not then lets not use it. But we need to find ways of exerting pressure. We need to be rid of the mullahcracy, and soon.

They need to rid THEMSELVES of the mullahs, we can't do it for them.

We can exert pressure in a hundred ways (Olsonist has a good idea) but I don't believe we can exert it by direct military action.

115

Racer X Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:12:25pm

re: #109 WindUpBird

YES, EXACTLY, UPDINGS FOR YOU :D

I'm exactly opposite you on many issues, but we are exactly aligned on this one.

Hmm.

Coke or Pepsi?
Chevy or Ford?
Beatles or Stones?

116

reine.de.tout Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:13:12pm

re: #99 reine.de.tout

According to Tehran's police chief, the security forces had no weapons, and no one was killed.

And here is a provisional list of the Tehran dead who were not killed by the security forces who had no weapons

117

Racer X Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:13:15pm

re: #105 Olsonist

Fine. That's your suggestion. My suggestion? ~~Double~~ Triple the number of student visas for Iranians to study in the US.

re: #110 WindUpBird

I'd be okay with that!

Not me.

118

Olsonist Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:14:53pm

re: #111 Dark_Falcon

The best way to keep them from attacking to draw them closer with trade and cultural ties rather than pushing them away with bombing. We already have strong cultural ties. LA is overrun with rich Iranians. They call it Tehrangeles. Bombing is, ummm, how to put it, imprecise.

119

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:15:22pm

re: #113 Spare O'Lake

I'm sure we would all love to see regime change in Iran and we all support the opposition.
However, there is really little or no evidence that the current opposition would give up Iran's nuke ambitions, or that they would suddenly become pro-US and pro-Israeli - a decrease in support for proxy terror may be a more realistic goal.
Similarly, there is little evidence that the opposition would strip the Mullahs of their political power - a somewhat more moderate mullahcracy may be all that they realistically hope for.
The current opposition is driven largely by a thirst for increased internal economic prosperity and enhanced internal human rights.
Of course this may change very quickly, and not necessarily for the better.

A moderate mullah presence, and greater internal human rights would be a good thing for them, and a good thing for their foreign relations. We can't expect Iran to shift from first to sixth gear overnight. Iran is trying to change, but the green opposition will not be perfect by our standards. They will not be pro-Israeli overnight, they may not truly be pro-Israeli EVER. But if they succeed, it will be an improvement.

120

zephirus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:16:10pm

re: #111 Dark_Falcon

How do we know that the CIA is not involved at some level?

121

reine.de.tout Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:16:28pm

Iran's Tiananmen Square photo?

122

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:16:47pm

re: #115 Racer X

Hmm.

Coke or Pepsi?
Chevy or Ford?
Beatles or Stones?

Coke!

Chevy since I've owned a lot of GM cars before my current VW, and I'm eyeing a purchase of a 2005 GTO.

Stones, because I'm a dirtbag metalhead, but that doesn't mean I don't love the Beatles. 8-)

123

reine.de.tout Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:17:06pm

re: #115 Racer X

Hmm.

Coke or Pepsi?
Chevy or Ford?
Beatles or Stones?

Coke
Ford
Stones

Did I pass?

124

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:17:18pm

re: #114 WindUpBird

They need to rid THEMSELVES of the mullahs, we can't do it for them.

We can exert pressure in a hundred ways (Olsonist has a good idea) but I don't believe we can exert it by direct military action.

Sure we could. A handful of well placed nukes could do it and cripple Iran for a generation. I do not advocate such a monstrous option, not even as a theoretical plan. But we could do it.

125

Jane_in_Colorado Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:17:57pm

OK, I understand that I'm too much of a newb to have any impact on the discussion here, or even get replies. Life's like that on the internet--I will deal. :P But for those really interested in following this amazing story, Sully is doing the best job of presenting it in real time. So I will leave you with his link: andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com...]>

Good night, lizards!

126

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:18:21pm

re: #118 Olsonist

The best way to keep them from attacking to draw them closer with trade and cultural ties rather than pushing them away with bombing. We already have strong cultural ties. LA is overrun with rich Iranians. They call it Tehrangeles. Bombing is, ummm, how to put it, imprecise.

Money talks. An Iran that sees tangible quality-of-life benefits from trade with the US will hopefulyl one day become friendly with the US. Tehran is FULL of internet cafes. More of that, plz!

"Tehrangeles!" XD

127

Escaped Hillbilly Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:18:22pm

They say your seldom wrong being a pessimist. The last revolution drew a lot of students to it by assuring them they would have increased internal freedom and economic prosperity while kicking out the puppets of the evil imperialist Americans. Once they won (do you remember many Americans thought they were right? They did. So soon we forget.) the students realized they had been duped. Internal freedom was squelched. One of the most modern countries in the middle east fell backward. I hate to say it, but someone is organizing and mobilizing these kids. We hope they are heading the right direction. But I'm a pessimist.

128

reine.de.tout Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:18:31pm

re: #125 Jane_in_Colorado

OK, I understand that I'm too much of a newb to have any impact on the discussion here, or even get replies. Life's like that on the internet--I will deal. :P But for those really interested in following this amazing story, Sully is doing the best job of presenting it in real time. So I will leave you with his link: andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com...]>

Good night, lizards!

linky no worky

129

BryanS Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:18:39pm

re: #107 reine.de.tout

DF, we often agree, but on this one - I think this would not accomplish anything, at least not quickly enough to do anyone any good whatsoever.

As unfortunate as it is for the safety of those demonstrators, outside force would not be the best thing to do.

It's also not clear who would lead the opposition. Mousavi is the putative leader, but he has pushed for reforming the existing system. He is more Gorbachev than Yeltsin.

130

Jane_in_Colorado Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:19:27pm

re: #125 Jane_in_Colorado

And maybe, eventually, I'll learn how to do links around here that don't look like someone puked them up! *scoffs foot in embarrassed fashion*

131

BryanS Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:19:48pm

re: #120 zephirus

How do we know that the CIA is not involved at some level?

They probably are.

132

reine.de.tout Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:20:39pm

re: #126 WindUpBird

Money talks. An Iran that sees tangible quality-of-life benefits from trade with the US will hopefulyl one day become friendly with the US. Tehran is FULL of internet cafes. More of that, plz!

"Tehrangeles!" XD

It seems everybody over there has a cell phone - I think most of the video we see is cell phone video.

Those folks seem to love technology, and either have or want the means to keep up with technology - and whatever other advantages are available.

You are right - money talks - tangible quality-of-life benefits.

133

Racer X Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:20:58pm

re: #122 WindUpBird

Coke!

Chevy since I've owned a lot of GM cars before my current VW, and I'm eyeing a purchase of a 2005 GTO.

Stones, because I'm a dirtbag metalhead, but that doesn't mean I don't love the Beatles. 8-)

See? We agree on other things.
Coke
Chevy
Beatles

I like the Stones - I just think The Beatles were more innovative. Don't tell Steve.

134

reine.de.tout Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:21:08pm

re: #130 Jane_in_Colorado

And maybe, eventually, I'll learn how to do links around here that don't look like someone puked them up! *scoffs foot in embarrassed fashion*

Don't worry about it - even old hands sometimes mess things up. Just try it again . . .

135

Racer X Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:21:32pm

re: #123 reine.de.tout

Coke
Ford
Stones

Did I pass?

Everyone gets a passing grade on this quiz!

136

Spare O'Lake Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:21:41pm

re: #119 WindUpBird

A moderate mullah presence, and greater internal human rights would be a good thing for them, and a good thing for their foreign relations. We can't expect Iran to shift from first to sixth gear overnight. Iran is trying to change, but the green opposition will not be perfect by our standards. They will not be pro-Israeli overnight, they may not truly be pro-Israeli EVER. But if they succeed, it will be an improvement.

An improvement, yes. But then what if anything will America and/or Israel do if the new regime won't give up their nuke program?

137

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:22:58pm

re: #115 Racer X

Hmm.

Coke or Pepsi?
Chevy or Ford?
Beatles or Stones?

Pepsi
Ford (because they didn't take bailout money)
Stones (I like the sound better)

138

reine.de.tout Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:23:23pm

re: #137 Dark_Falcon

Pepsi
Ford (because they didn't take bailout money)
Stones (I like the sound better)

PEPSI?
That's almost unAmerican.

139

Jane_in_Colorado Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:23:41pm

Now I'm honor-bound to try:

Andres Sullivan

Honest. No matter what you think of the guy, he and his co-bloggers have owned this story. They are doing a brilliant job of covering it.

140

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:23:45pm

re: #133 Racer X

See? We agree on other things.
Coke
Chevy
Beatles

I like the Stones - I just think The Beatles were more innovative. Don't tell Steve.

The Beatles were far more innovative, and essentially invented modern recording techniques. Tape loops, multi-track... but the Stones are what I actually listen to more often. Sexier and more evil. It's a tough call!

141

zephirus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:23:47pm

re: #132 reine.de.tout

One would think that access to modern technology/science would have an impact. But then again, the Christmas day terrorist is a well-to-do engineering student.

142

allegro Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:24:02pm

re: #136 Spare O'Lake

But then what if anything will America and/or Israel do if the new regime won't give up their nuke program?

Mock them, belittle them, and don't give them Mp4s.

143

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:24:08pm

re: #135 Racer X

Everyone gets a passing grade on this quiz!

He gives everyone a passing grade! No competition, no effort! RacerX has been brainwashed and become a liberal!

/stalkers

144

reine.de.tout Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:24:19pm

re: #139 Jane_in_Colorado

Now I'm honor-bound to try:

Andres Sullivan

Honest. No matter what you think of the guy, he and his co-bloggers have owned this story. They are doing a brilliant job of covering it.

They also did a good job last time.
And I'm not a fan. But he got this one right.

145

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:24:39pm

re: #138 reine.de.tout

PEPSI?
That's almost unAmerican.

I like the taste of Pepsi better.

146

zephirus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:25:01pm

re: #139 Jane_in_Colorado

Agree.

147

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:25:14pm

re: #137 Dark_Falcon

Pepsi
Ford (because they didn't take bailout money)
Stones (I like the sound better)

Ford is a more successful worldwide company (which is why they didn't need to take bailout money, they have a great international brand) but I will always be sentimental to GM cars. My first two cars were GM cars, and I hope to own something powered by a Corvette engine someday soon 8-)

148

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:25:21pm

Cowboys win.

149

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:25:43pm

re: #145 Dark_Falcon

I like the taste of Pepsi better.

Coke beats Pepsi for me, but Diet Pepsi WAY beats Diet Coke.

150

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:25:54pm

re: #147 WindUpBird

A Prius?

151

Jane_in_Colorado Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:25:57pm

And if I hadn't messed up the text part, I'd be feeling pretty cool right now. (Oy. How many ways can you mess up the same thing? Please excuse me while I go die of embarrassment.)

152

Racer X Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:26:05pm

re: #137 Dark_Falcon

Pepsi
Ford (because they didn't take bailout money)
Stones (I like the sound better)

You're dead to me.

;-)

153

freetoken Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:26:15pm

Ping Pong Babes:

Vimeo

/* it seemed appropriate */

154

allegro Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:26:17pm

re: #140 WindUpBird

The Beatles were far more innovative, and essentially invented modern recording techniques.

At least George Martin did. But his genius reigns.

155

Escaped Hillbilly Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:26:32pm

re: #141 zephirus

One reason so many have cell phones is land line phones are impractical. Houses are often very far apart. The government controls as much info as possible and does not hesitate to listen in on calls. And service is so-so even where it exists. But anybody can buy a cheap phone. And in that region, AT&T and the other megacorporations don't have a lock on the industry.

156

Olsonist Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:26:41pm

re: #130 Jane_in_Colorado

And maybe, eventually, I'll learn how to do links around here that don't look like someone puked them up! *scoffs foot in embarrassed fashion*

A well placed nuclear weapon could solve this problem. I do not advocate such a monstrous option, not even as a theoretical plan. But it could work.

157

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:26:47pm

re: #148 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Cowboys win.

Yes. Dallas is officially playoff bound, but they'll need to beat McNabb, Vick, and the Eagles to gain home field advantage.

158

Jane_in_Colorado Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:27:43pm

re: #144 reine.de.tout

They also did a good job last time.
And I'm not a fan. But he got this one right.

Oh, I wasn't trying to suggest anyone become a fan. Sully drives me crazy 18 different ways. But he's been on the side of the angels with respect to this story.

159

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:27:51pm

re: #157 Dark_Falcon

Not a problem.

(*whimpers*)

160

Killgore Trout Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:28:06pm

re: #139 Jane_in_Colorado

Now I'm honor-bound to try:

Andres Sullivan

Honest. No matter what you think of the guy, he and his co-bloggers have owned this story. They are doing a brilliant job of covering it.

Nice job on the link. I gave Sullivan a second chance during the last uprising in Iran. His coverage was exceptional as it is this time too. However, his obsession with Palin's handicapped child is so distasteful that I'll never take him seriously except in special situations. It's a shame. he could be such a talented and useful blogger but he's just a sick and twisted person at heart. What a waste.

161

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:28:25pm

re: #158 Jane_in_Colorado

My sanity is protected by staying here...

162

Escaped Hillbilly Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:29:33pm

re: #149 WindUpBird

Them's fightin words. Diet Coke.
Lets try to weed out the real commies and crazy right wingers...
Coke
Pepsi
Dr Pepper
Mountain Dew
Spring Water

163

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:30:00pm

re: #148 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Cowboys win.

:(re: #136 Spare O'Lake

An improvement, yes. But then what if anything will America and/or Israel do if the new regime won't give up their nuke program?

That's a bridge we don't cross now. People here are concerned (ad rightfully so) about the fanaticism of Iran in regards to their nuclear program. What if Iran is more democratic and no longer as fanatical? Doesn't that change the playing field a bit?

164

allegro Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:30:57pm

re: #160 Killgore Trout

"...his obsession with Palin's handicapped child is so distasteful that I'll never take him seriously..."

In fairness, I never saw it as an obsession with the child as with an obsession with her pregnancy, and questions regarding the reality of it.

165

Racer X Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:31:12pm

McDonnell Douglas Product Survey

Really Funny!

166

zephirus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:31:15pm

re: #161 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Are you really a Vegetarian? A bastard? Fat?

167

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:31:50pm

re: #150 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

A Prius?

I'd sooner ride a skateboard to work in traffic than drive a Prius.

A Honda CRX HF in decent condition is a more fun drive, is as fuel efficient, and way more tossable in the twisties.

168

Sheila Broflovski Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:31:57pm

re: #115 Racer X

Hmm.

Coke or Pepsi?
Chevy or Ford?
Beatles or Stones?

Neither: I like 2 cents plain
I've only driven GM vehicles but worked at Ford for most of my career
Gotta go with the Beatles.

169

Jane_in_Colorado Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:32:14pm

re: #160 Killgore Trout

Nice job on the link. I gave Sullivan a second chance during the last uprising in Iran. His coverage was exceptional as it is this time too. However, his obsession with Palin's handicapped child is so distasteful that I'll never take him seriously except in special situations. It's a shame. he could be such a talented and useful blogger but he's just a sick and twisted person at heart. What a waste.

No, it was a pathetic job on the link! I mean, I finally got the link to work but then I misspelled the guy's name. I would claim chemo-brain, but the truth is, sometimes I'm just lame.

Totally agree with you regarding Sullivan and Palin's child--weird, sick, offputting. But I have not seen better coverage anywhere on what's going on in Iran. I believe in giving both credit and blame where due. :)

170

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:34:21pm

re: #150 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

A Prius?

Though a Prius with a Corvette LS1 in it would be the greatest sleeper of all time :D Even better than this completely orgasmic twin turbo Vette-powered Volvo 745:

Youtube Video

171

Killgore Trout Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:34:35pm

re: #164 allegro

In fairness, I never saw it as an obsession with the child as with an obsession with her pregnancy, and questions regarding the reality of it.

I don't care how you slice it. It still stinks. The child and her pregnancy makes no difference even if there's some giant secret conspiracy. It doesn't win any votes and makes no political difference. It's a waste of time. At a time when the right is crazy and depraved Sully is one of the few left wing bloggers that even the wingnuts can rightfully look down on as a loon and a creep.

172

miclaine Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:34:47pm

re: #162 Escaped Hillbilly

DIET RITE!

173

allegro Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:35:14pm

re: #171 Killgore Trout

I don't care how you slice it. It still stinks.

Agreed.

174

Killgore Trout Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:35:29pm

re: #169 Jane_in_Colorado

I'll still give you an A for effort.

175

Digital Display Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:37:41pm

re: #115 Racer X

Hmm.

Coke or Pepsi?
Chevy or Ford?
Beatles or Stones?

1. spring water favored with Black Cherry
2. Are you serious? Chevy or Ford?..If I have to choose I'm going for the yellow convertible Beemer *If you are lucky I'll Wave*
3. I didn't like either..I liked Blues and off the wall Rock...I know every song Canned Heat ever did by heart...
Did I flunk? *wink*

176

Jane_in_Colorado Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:37:52pm

re: #174 Killgore Trout

I'll still give you an A for effort.

Thanks, but I'm perfectly at peace with my own lameness. :P

177

Spare O'Lake Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:38:00pm

I like the Stones, but the Beatles are in a class by themselves.
I like Pepsi, but Coke is in a class by itself.
I detest Chevies, but Fords are in a class by themselves.

178

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:38:26pm

re: #175 HoosierHoops

1. spring water favored with Black Cherry
2. Are you serious? Chevy or Ford?..If I have to choose I'm going for the yellow convertible Beemer *If you are lucky I'll Wave*
3. I didn't like either..I liked Blues and off the wall Rock...I know every song Canned Heat ever did by heart...
Did I flunk? *wink*

2. better be an E36 M3 convertible :D

179

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:39:44pm

re: #166 zephirus

Austin Powers character Fat Bastard

Yes a vegetarian. And the heaviest vegetarian I have ever met.

180

allegro Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:40:02pm

Canned Heat? Country Joe and the Fish and we'll talk.

181

zephirus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:40:30pm

re: #162 Escaped Hillbilly

Mountain Dew is the superior beverage.

182

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:40:48pm

re: #64 rwmofo

It would be fun to watch those two running away screaming - and I bet Medea would out-run Beck.

She's in better shape, but I am willing to bet he is the bigger coward.

183

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:40:53pm

re: #177 Spare O'Lake

I like the Stones, but the Beatles are in a class by themselves.
I like Pepsi, but Coke is in a class by itself.
I detest Chevies, but Fords are in a class by themselves.

Ford Mustang: live rear axle. :( Great looking cars, but ancient technology. (I like the Focus SVT, though. That car has some wild tech under the hood)

184

Digital Display Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:41:06pm

re: #181 zephirus

Mountain Dew is the superior beverage.

Pure sugar..Gak!

185

Escaped Hillbilly Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:41:46pm

re: #184 HoosierHoops

Its the caffeine man.

186

zephirus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:42:02pm

re: #184 HoosierHoops

But the flavah is divine!

187

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:42:14pm

re: #184 HoosierHoops

Pure sugar..Gak!

Mountain Dew reminds of my days in high school tossing dice in D&D games. That's like all we drank. I can't even stand it anymore, but looking at the bottles just brings me back.

188

Racer X Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:42:38pm

Thinker's Anonymous

It started out innocently enough. I began to think at parties now and then to loosen up. Inevitably though, one thought led to another, and soon I was more than just a social thinker.

I began to think alone - "to relax," I told myself - but I knew it wasn't true. Thinking became more and more important to me, and finally I was thinking all the time.

I began to think on the job. I knew that thinking and employment don't mix, but I couldn't stop myself.

I began to avoid friends at lunchtime so I could read Thoreau and Kafka. I would return to the office dizzied and confused, asking, "What is it exactly we are doing here?"

Things weren't going so great at home either. One evening I had turned off the TV and asked my wife about the meaning of life. She spent that night at her mother's.

I soon had a reputation as a heavy thinker. One day the boss called me in. He said, "Skippy, I like you, and it hurts me to say this, but your thinking has become a real problem. If you don't stop thinking on the job, you'll have to find another job." This gave me a lot to think about.

I came home early after my conversation with the boss. "Honey," I confessed, "I've been thinking..."

"I know you've been thinking," she said, "and I want a divorce!"

"But Honey, surely it's not that serious." "It is serious," she said, lower lip aquiver. "You think as much as college professors, and college professors don't make any money, so if you keep on thinking we won't have any money!"

"That's a faulty syllogism," I said impatiently, and she began to cry.

I'd had enough. "I'm going to the library," I snarled as I stomped out the door.

I headed for the library, in the mood for some Nietzsche, with a PBS station on the radio. I roared into the parking lot and ran up to the big glass doors... they didn't open. The library was closed.

To this day, I believe that a Higher Power was looking out for me that night.

As I sank to the ground clawing at the unfeeling glass, whimpering for Zarathustra, a poster caught my eye. "Friend, is heavy thinking ruining your life?" it asked. You probably recognize that line. It comes from the standard Thinker's Anonymous poster.

Which is why I am what I am today: a recovering thinker. I never miss a TA meeting. At each meeting we watch a non-educational video; last week it was "Porky's." Then we share experiences about how we avoided thinking since the last meeting.

I still have my job, and things are a lot better at home. Life just seemed... easier, somehow, as soon as I stopped thinking.

189

zephirus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:43:35pm

re: #187 WindUpBird

MD + DD ; got that from my kids.

190

allegro Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:43:36pm

re: #187 WindUpBird

I can't even stand it anymore, but looking at the bottles just brings me back.

That's the way I feel about Boone's Apple. It brings my stomach back to a really bad place.

191

Digital Display Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:43:39pm

re: #187 WindUpBird

Mountain Dew reminds of my days in high school tossing dice in D&D games. That's like all we drank. I can't even stand it anymore, but looking at the bottles just brings me back.

I love coffee..Every kind of coffee....

192

Racer X Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:43:40pm

re: #181 zephirus

Mountain Dew is the superior beverage.

Mtn Dew has more caffeine in it than any other popular soft drink.

*Jolt Cola is not popular.

193

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:45:08pm

re: #190 allegro

That's the way I feel about Boone's Apple. It brings my stomach back to a really bad place.

ahahahaha YUCK :D

194

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:46:16pm

re: #28 Gus 802

Wait, Hawaii is "America hating"?

I'm having such a hard time keeping up with who is a Real American and who isn't. I used to think that everyone who was a citizen of the U.S. was a Real American.

Then I started hearing that people who had certain opinions (or more accurately, didn't have certain opinions) weren't Real Americans.

Then I found out that we had Phony Soldiers in various branches and several ranks of the military.

Now I hear that an entire state hates the nation of which it is a member? But then, I also remember that it was the governor of Texas, not Hawaii, who was blathering about secession some months back. I'm so confused!

195

zephirus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:46:31pm

re: #188 Racer X

Eating from tree of Knowledge --> banishment from Garden.

196

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:46:46pm

re: #192 Racer X

Mtn Dew has more caffeine in it than any other popular soft drink.

*Jolt Cola is not popular.

I currently drink this local energy drink called Viso which has about the equivalent of three cups of coffee in each 16oz can, and it's not fizzy like the Dew is. Coffee no longer sits well in my stomach, and neither do carbonated drinks for the most part. I am sad, I used to drink massive, insane amounts of coffee.

197

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:47:28pm

re: #160 Killgore Trout

Nice job on the link. I gave Sullivan a second chance during the last uprising in Iran. His coverage was exceptional as it is this time too. However, his obsession with Palin's handicapped child is so distasteful that I'll never take him seriously except in special situations. It's a shame. he could be such a talented and useful blogger but he's just a sick and twisted person at heart. What a waste.

BTW, has anyone else been following Debbie Schlussel's ongoing attacks on Bristol Palin? I knew she didn't like Sarah, but the crap she spews about the daughter is disturbing.

198

Killgore Trout Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:48:54pm

re: #188 Racer X

I still have my job, and things are a lot better at home. Life just seemed... easier, somehow, as soon as I stopped thinking.

You should explore Zen. It's the thinking man's way to stop thinking.
/Srsly

199

Dancing along the light of day Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:49:42pm

re: #165 Racer X

Please check where this product was purchased:
[_] Received as gift / aid package

LOL!
Dad worked there for a lot of years.

200

Killgore Trout Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:49:43pm

re: #197 SanFranciscoZionist

NO, I haven't checked out her blog in quite some time. Maybe I should pay her a visit.

201

allegro Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:50:11pm

re: #197 SanFranciscoZionist

"...the crap she spews about the daughter is disturbing."

I haven't seen it, but when the daughter goes public as a spokesperson for... abstinence? teen motherhood?... all bets are kinda off.

202

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:51:04pm

re: #194 negativ

Wait, Hawaii is "America hating"?

I'm having such a hard time keeping up with who is a Real American and who isn't. I used to think that everyone who was a citizen of the U.S. was a Real American.

Then I started hearing that people who had certain opinions (or more accurately, didn't have certain opinions) weren't Real Americans.

Then I found out that we had Phony Soldiers in various branches and several ranks of the military.

Now I hear that an entire state hates the nation of which it is a member? But then, I also remember that it was the governor of Texas, not Hawaii, who was blathering about secession some months back. I'm so confused!

If the wingnuts have taught us anything in the last several months, it is that the highest form of patriotism is threatening to either overthrow the government, or secede from the Union. This is a one-up on the moonbats, who believed that the highest form of patriotism was to move to Canada.

203

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:52:08pm

re: #201 allegro

"...the crap she spews about the daughter is disturbing."

I haven't seen it, but when the daughter goes public as a spokesperson for... abstinence? teen motherhood?... all bets are kinda off.

I feel that it's not nice to refer to a young woman who hasn't hurt anyone else as a slut. Which Schlussel does.

204

Racer X Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:52:21pm

Merry Pastamas!

205

reine.de.tout Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:52:33pm

re: #201 allegro

"...the crap she spews about the daughter is disturbing."

I haven't seen it, but when the daughter goes public as a spokesperson for... abstinence? teen motherhood?... all bets are kinda off.

ya know, Bristol might, just might, have some experience to share that might, just might, be helpful to another teen.

206

Gus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:53:12pm

re: #194 negativ

Wait, Hawaii is "America hating"?

I'm having such a hard time keeping up with who is a Real American and who isn't. I used to think that everyone who was a citizen of the U.S. was a Real American.

Then I started hearing that people who had certain opinions (or more accurately, didn't have certain opinions) weren't Real Americans.

Then I found out that we had Phony Soldiers in various branches and several ranks of the military.

Now I hear that an entire state hates the nation of which it is a member? But then, I also remember that it was the governor of Texas, not Hawaii, who was blathering about secession some months back. I'm so confused!

My first thought was that it's because of previous secessionist movements in Hawaii. One example might be an opinion piece by the infamous Phyllis Schlafly found here.

Highly ironic since the unhinged revanchists are all for seceding from the Union such as Texas. Of course you won't here them calling such a movement anti-American because of the inherent Anglo-Saxon flavor of their ranks.

Otherwise I try not to put too much thought into their lunacy.

207

reine.de.tout Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:53:17pm

re: #203 SanFranciscoZionist

I feel that it's not nice to refer to a young woman who hasn't hurt anyone else as a slut. Which Schlussel does.

Agreed!
Teens do stupid things.
And learn.

208

Racer X Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:54:03pm

World Without Humans

209

Dancing along the light of day Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:54:47pm

re: #204 Racer X

Merry Pastamas!

LOL!
Are you a Pastafarian?
The noodly cookies look good!

210

Escaped Hillbilly Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:54:47pm

re: #194 negativ

Whew! Yeah, Rush is donkey.

211

Racer X Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:56:03pm

Earth album

Very cool.

212

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sun, Dec 27, 2009 8:58:29pm

re: #197 SanFranciscoZionist

BTW, has anyone else been following Debbie Schlussel's ongoing attacks on Bristol Palin? I knew she didn't like Sarah, but the crap she spews about the daughter is disturbing.

Listeners to the Howard Stern Show circa 2001-2002 know very well that Debbie Schlussel is a psycho.

213

Escaped Hillbilly Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:00:04pm

re: #201 allegro

"...the crap she spews about the daughter is disturbing."

I haven't seen it, but when the daughter goes public as a spokesperson for... abstinence? teen motherhood?... all bets are kinda off.

Hey, that kinda doesn't make sense. So, having made a mistake she turns that around, takes responsibility for her actions, and starts speaking out to warn other teenage girls not to make the same bad decisions...and that means all bets are off? So we can say whatever we want about her? As a single mom who obvious made a stupid decisioin as well, I wish someone had laid some hard ass common sense straight talk on me. A slut, by most definitions, is someone who has sex with multiple partners. I don't think that was the case here.

214

Gus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:01:03pm

re: #210 Escaped Hillbilly

Whew! Yeah, Rush is donkey.

Kind of like the pilonidal cyst on his ass that kept him out of Vietnam as a 4-F.

215

Escaped Hillbilly Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:02:46pm

re: #214 Gus 802

I don't want to Pile on.

216

allegro Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:03:04pm

re: #203 SanFranciscoZionist

I feel that it's not nice to refer to a young woman who hasn't hurt anyone else as a slut. Which Schlussel does.

As I said, I haven't read Schlussel. If she slut shames the girl, I'm right there in condemning it. I'm sick of this shaming crap telling women we can't be the sexual human beings we are without dire consequences and punishment. That said, hypocrisy is fair to call out, if that's what she's doing. I know Bristol has been called on to be a spokesperson for abstinence, which I frankly think is a shitty thing to do to the girl. She has been put in a no win place.

217

Escaped Hillbilly Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:03:52pm

re: #216 allegro

politiks

218

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:04:12pm

re: #216 allegro

As I said, I haven't read Schlussel. If she slut shames the girl, I'm right there in condemning it. I'm sick of this shaming crap telling women we can't be the sexual human beings we are without dire consequences and punishment. That said, hypocrisy is fair to call out, if that's what she's doing. I know Bristol has been called on to be a spokesperson for abstinence, which I frankly think is a shitty thing to do to the girl. She has been put in a no win place.

Search the kid's name on Schlussel's site, and I think you'll agree she is not calling out hypocrisy, although she may be less guilty of it than, say Bill O'Reilly, on this topic. She's just being a jerk.

219

Gus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:04:52pm

re: #215 Escaped Hillbilly

I don't want to Pile on.

I hereby invole the iron fistula rule!

//Gross

220

Gus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:05:11pm

re: #219 Gus 802

Invoke, that is.

221

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:06:09pm

re: #217 Escaped Hillbilly

politiks

Concur. She wasn't originally saying abstinence, but most likely somebody got her to change her message. A message that publicly acknowledged some teens are going to have sex would not have been pleasing to her mother's base, which stresses purity instead of logic or reality.

222

zephirus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:06:37pm

re: #216 allegro

I wonder who "encouraged" her to be the abstinence spokesperson?

223

Olsonist Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:07:00pm

re: #219 Gus 802

I hereby invole the iron fistula rule!

//Gross

/

You should cease and decyst. Now.

224

zephirus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:08:10pm

re: #219 Gus 802

That Glenn Beck is so vein.

225

allegro Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:10:04pm

re: #221 Dark_Falcon

One could go further to those who think it delightful that a young woman of Bristol's age become pregnant and forcibly married. It's part of the message to women. That's why the Right hasn't gone all nutso about the girl getting pregnant.

226

Gus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:10:29pm

re: #224 zephirus

That Glenn Beck is so vein.

He has an honorary degree in Scatology.

227

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:12:02pm

re: #225 allegro

One could go further to those who think it delightful that a young woman of Bristol's age become pregnant and forcibly married. It's part of the message to women. That's why the Right hasn't gone all nutso about the girl getting pregnant.

Though the wedding fell through, after Levi Johnson proved himself to be an immature redneck asshole.

228

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:12:49pm

re: #226 Gus 802

He has an honorary degree in Scatology.

Don't go there. I just ate. Just figuring out what that meant caused my stomach to heave.

229

Gus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:14:20pm

re: #227 Dark_Falcon

Though the wedding fell through, after Levi Johnson proved himself to be an immature redneck asshole.

As much as I dislike Sarah Palin's politics I find Levi Johnston to be a repugnant human being. The man has no scruples.

230

allegro Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:14:31pm

re: #227 Dark_Falcon

Though the wedding fell through, after Levi Johnson proved himself to be an immature redneck asshole.

Yup. So she's left with a child to raise. A child herself. It's tragic on every level, yet she's forced to put on this happy face to the public.

231

Olsonist Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:15:13pm

re: #227 Dark_Falcon

Levi Johnson is probably par for the course for that age group in that area. Half of the guys from my high school wouldn't have been any different and wouldn't have acted any different if thrust in front of TV cameras and dragged down to Hollywood.

What can we learn from this? Young people do stupid things. I did. You probably did.

232

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:15:58pm

re: #228 Dark_Falcon

May you never see the True Face of the Internets.

233

allegro Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:16:21pm

re: #231 Olsonist

What can we learn from this? Young people do stupid things. I did. You probably did.

Yet, as a male (I assume) you don't have to pay the price that a young woman does.

234

Olsonist Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:21:03pm

re: #233 allegro

Don't get me wrong. I'm not hating on Bristol either. She does have a burden to bear. But my dad got my mother pregnant at 17. Both struggled and went on to get graduate degrees and raise 6 kids. I think the last thing we need to do is stigmatize these people. They'll get through it. I'm not a Sarah Palin fan at all but that woman is tough and she'll help out. On the other hand, the Debbie Schlussel's of the world who use this for their own political ends? I got nothing for them.

235

Mich-again Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:22:57pm

My son told me a charming family story from his HS. The mom of a boy who got a girl pregnant paid for the girl's abortion. Didn't want to know any more details, it just made me ill thinking how that went down.

236

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:23:07pm

re: #231 Olsonist

Levi Johnson is probably par for the course for that age group in that area. Half of the guys from my high school wouldn't have been any different and wouldn't have acted any different if thrust in front of TV cameras and dragged down to Hollywood.

What can we learn from this? Young people do stupid things. I did. You probably did.

You're right of course, both about young people and about me. Still, he has been needlessly cruel. I can't muster any sympathy for him. He made a mistake and then decided to compound it by being an asshole to get his 15 minutes.

237

allegro Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:23:20pm

re: #234 Olsonist

On the other hand, the Debbie Schlussel's of the world who use this for their own political ends? I got nothing for them.

I hear ya and I'm taking your word for it. Using a young woman for this is iinexcusable.

238

Gus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:23:30pm

re: #234 Olsonist

Don't get me wrong. I'm not hating on Bristol either. She does have a burden to bear. But my dad got my mother pregnant at 17. Both struggled and went on to get graduate degrees and raise 6 kids. I think the last thing we need to do is stigmatize these people. They'll get through it. I'm not a Sarah Palin fan at all but that woman is tough and she'll help out. On the other hand, the Debbie Schlussel's of the world who use this for their own political ends? I got nothing for them.

Several years ago Schlussel said something stupid about atheists being the next most likely to become suicide bombers. I knew she was nuts by then but that sealed the deal for me.

239

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:24:26pm

re: #235 Mich-again

My son told me a charming family story from his HS. The mom of a boy who got a girl pregnant paid for the girl's abortion. Didn't want to know any more details, it just made me ill thinking how that went down.

I'd don't like that one either. Someone paid to have their own grandchild aborted. Not a good thing.

240

Olsonist Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:25:21pm

re: #239 Dark_Falcon

I'd don't like that one either. Someone paid to have their own grandchild aborted. Not a good thing.

I'm strongly pro-choice but even that one wigs me out.

241

Escaped Hillbilly Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:26:01pm

re: #238 Gus 802

I would think an atheist would be the least likely. If a religious person dies they go to Heaven, get reborn, join their All Mighty etc. The atheist is just dead. Just sayin.

242

Mich-again Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:26:22pm

re: #238 Gus 802
I have a wonderful e-mail from DS in my archives. She didn't like something I posted at her blog and she got all pissy in an e-mail reply. Its pretty funny actually.

243

What, me worry? Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:27:41pm

re: #234 Olsonist

The sad truth is that the divorce rate is much higher the younger you are and almost guaranteed for teenage marriages today. Also, the vast majority of teen marriages happen because of pregnancy. I don't know how economics play into the picture, wealthy, middle class or poor families. It's something across the board, though.

Young women suffer the most. They often go on welfare, are afraid of dead beat dads, lose education and job opportunities. Not good.

244

Bagua Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:28:02pm

re: #91 WindUpBird

And yet we have calls on this very blog for us to take this opportunity to invade and shell Iran.

Can you identify the comments which were calling for the invasion or shelling of Iran? I must have missed them.

245

Mich-again Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:28:24pm

re: #241 Escaped Hillbilly
Exactly. Why would an atheist be a suicide bomber. That doesn't make any sense at all.

246

What, me worry? Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:28:31pm

re: #238 Gus 802

Several years ago Schlussel said something stupid about atheists being the next most likely to become suicide bombers. I knew she was nuts by then but that sealed the deal for me.

She's an angry lady and always expresses her viewpoint with the lowest form of insults.

247

Gus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:29:12pm

re: #241 Escaped Hillbilly

I would think an atheist would be the least likely. If a religious person dies they go to Heaven, get reborn, join their All Mighty etc. The atheist is just dead. Just sayin.

That's true. There would be no reward whatsoever for an atheist. The whole premise is absurd on her part to have tried to rationalize such a scenario mainly for the purpose of insulting atheists or the typical meme of "secular progressives."

248

Escaped Hillbilly Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:29:40pm

re: #245 Mich-again

I had never heard of this lady. Glad I hadn't now. From what you guys are saying, I haven't missed anything.

249

Gus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:31:20pm

re: #248 Escaped Hillbilly

I had never heard of this lady. Glad I hadn't now. From what you guys are saying, I haven't missed anything.

She hates elevators.

And Tinkerbell.

250

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:31:34pm

re: #247 Gus 802

That's true. There would be no reward whatsoever for an atheist. The whole premise is absurd on her part to have tried to rationalize such a scenario mainly for the purpose of insulting atheists or the typical meme of "secular progressives."

A bit like Schlussel's insistence that Tinkerbell's new outfit is mean to pacify both radical lesbians and radical Muslims. "All of my enemies are friends with each other!"

251

Escaped Hillbilly Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:32:26pm

re: #250 SanFranciscoZionist

What? Seriously?

252

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:32:29pm

re: #249 Gus 802

She hates elevators.

And Tinkerbell.

/

Also Sarah Palin, and Hollywood. Claims to like Christians, but I take that with a grain of salt.

253

Gus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:32:59pm

re: #250 SanFranciscoZionist

A bit like Schlussel's insistence that Tinkerbell's new outfit is mean to pacify both radical lesbians and radical Muslims. "All of my enemies are friends with each other!"

GMTA ;)

Yeah, she'd get along with Andrew Breitbart and his fear of Lesbian Studies.

254

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:34:00pm

re: #251 Escaped Hillbilly

What? Seriously?

Yeah. She says the new little outfit makes Tink look like a lesbian (strong inference that there's something wrong with that), and that she fully expects it to morph into a burqa.

Woman's a whack job. With no appreciation for cute little pom-pom boots made out of leaves.

255

allegro Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:34:54pm

I remember watching the Republican convention and looking forward to Palin's speech. There was this intense interest with the camera in the handing down the line of her poor, nonresponsive infant from hand to hand and her pregnant daughter on the stage and I thought WTF? I was so offended by the entire scene. My heart went out to Bristol most of all. I'm old, but I remember being 17, and how I just wanted to play the game I was expected to play, just as Bristol is now. I hate that anyone is using her towards their political ends, just as her mother seemed to be then. I also get that Bristol's choices, whatever they might be, aren't hers. They are being called. She's too young to fight against them, especially as dependent as she, and her infant child, are to those who are her lifeline. It's a horrific situation.

256

Mich-again Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:35:53pm

re: #248 Escaped Hillbilly
This is what I got from her when I fact checked one of her posts..

Not sure who died and appointed you chief truth-squad
official. But he should have appointed someone else.
Because what I wrote was the truth and your absurd
comment was BS. Check your own facts. I don't recall
asking for a fact-checker. I do quite fine on my own.
I also don't need a lecture on how and what I can
write. Are you the official constitution drafter for
the blogosphere? I guess I didn't get the memo. My
site gets thousands of people a day, many from LGF,
but none as rude or patronizing...Anytime you insult me, you will
be deleted. My site is about promoting me and my
views, not idiotarians who are also self-appointed,
but failed, fact-checkers. But who haven't looked in
the mirror lately.

257

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:37:19pm

re: #256 Mich-again

This is what I got from her when I fact checked one of her posts..

My goodness.

What on earth did you correct her on?

258

Gus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:38:21pm

re: #252 SanFranciscoZionist

Also Sarah Palin, and Hollywood. Claims to like Christians, but I take that with a grain of salt.

She doesn't like Sarah Palin?

Oh I get so tired of people trying to paint Hollywood like this vast monolith that secretly runs this country. It's the acting field so of course you'll find more liberals. But when I took acting at San Francisco Community College it was a diverse bunch. One guy was a somewhat conservative budding radio voice man and another was this rather Christian woman. The rest were rather liberal but that wasn't the hard and fast rule. I even met two of the SF Log Cabin Republican leaders there.

259

Olsonist Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:38:59pm

I'm going to sum up my thoughts on the Debbie Schlussel Bristol Palin kerfuffle:

Pick on someone your own size.

260

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:39:21pm

re: #255 allegro

I remember watching the Republican convention and looking forward to Palin's speech. There was this intense interest with the camera in the handing down the line of her poor, nonresponsive infant from hand to hand and her pregnant daughter on the stage and I thought WTF? I was so offended by the entire scene. My heart went out to Bristol most of all. I'm old, but I remember being 17, and how I just wanted to play the game I was expected to play, just as Bristol is now. I hate that anyone is using her towards their political ends, just as her mother seemed to be then. I also get that Bristol's choices, whatever they might be, aren't hers. They are being called. She's too young to fight against them, especially as dependent as she, and her infant child, are to those who are her lifeline. It's a horrific situation.

No, its not horrific. Its not good but Bristol Palin has an intact family who loves her and is able to help her raise her child. Most teen moms don't have that kind of support. Her life is not going to be easy, but she does have a better chance than most.

261

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:41:37pm

re: #258 Gus 802

She doesn't like Sarah Palin?

Oh I get so tired of people trying to paint Hollywood like this vast monolith that secretly runs this country. It's the acting field so of course you'll find more liberals. But when I took acting at San Francisco Community College it was a diverse bunch. One guy was a somewhat conservative budding radio voice man and another was this rather Christian woman. The rest were rather liberal but that wasn't the hard and fast rule. I even met two of the SF Log Cabin Republican leaders there.

Debbie Schlussel hates Sarah Palin. A lot. She kind of sort of toed the line until the election, and then last spring she went apeshit on her. She's still at it--in her review of the Queen Victoria movie, from this past Friday, she says:

A scene in which an ignorant Queen Victoria, who knows not what she’s doing and is sadly in need of advice, yells at her husband that he’s basically just a sperm donor for her reminded me of Sarah Palin, whose husband is the wife and mother in the family. Sarah Palin plus a brain, common sense, and modicum of class, that is. (With apologies to Queen Victoria–who was brilliant and well read, versus the completely ignorant, total lightweight Palin–for the comparison.)

But, ultimately, Victoria comes to realize that without sharing her duties and power with her husband, her marriage won’t last. Men are that way–in not wanting to be women. At least they were then. And now, we have Todd Palins all over the place.

262

Escaped Hillbilly Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:43:22pm

re: #254 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah. She says the new little outfit makes Tink look like a lesbian (strong inference that there's something wrong with that), and that she fully expects it to morph into a burqa.

Woman's a whack job. With no appreciation for cute little pom-pom boots made out of leaves.

I had to check out Tink's new costume to see what she was talking about. Definitely whacko on that one too. She's dressed in a cute little hiing outfit made of leaves with what looks like a tutu at her waist. Yeah, that's Lesbo. And who ever saw a form fitting burqua? We feminists have been decrying Tink's over sexualization etc. for years. Poor Disney, they can't win can they?

263

What, me worry? Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:44:42pm

re: #262 Escaped Hillbilly

I had to check out Tink's new costume to see what she was talking about. Definitely whacko on that one too. She's dressed in a cute little hiing outfit made of leaves with what looks like a tutu at her waist. Yeah, that's Lesbo. And who ever saw a form fitting burqua? We feminists have been decrying Tink's over sexualization etc. for years. Poor Disney, they can't win can they?

Disney is covering up Tinkerbell. The next move is a burqa.

World According to Schlussel.

264

allegro Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:45:12pm

re: #260 Dark_Falcon

No, its not horrific. Its not good but Bristol Palin has an intact family who loves her and is able to help her raise her child. Most teen moms don't have that kind of support. Her life is not going to be easy, but she does have a better chance than most.

And that is missing the point completely. Yes, it's wonderful that Bristol and her child have a loving, prosperous family to help. And yes, that is more than a lot of other young women have. But what ALL of those young women don't have is the right of their own sexuality without slut-shaming, without the right of being the sexual beings that they are, without CHOICE of their reproductive lives. You don't get it because it doesn't have meaning for you, as a male.

265

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:45:34pm

re: #262 Escaped Hillbilly

I had to check out Tink's new costume to see what she was talking about. Definitely whacko on that one too. She's dressed in a cute little hiing outfit made of leaves with what looks like a tutu at her waist. Yeah, that's Lesbo. And who ever saw a form fitting burqua? We feminists have been decrying Tink's over sexualization etc. for years. Poor Disney, they can't win can they?

I think the new outfit is adorable.

And apparently she still wears the itty-bitty dress for evening wear in the new movie.

I really do not think this is the end for American womanhood.

266

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:45:41pm

re: #248 Escaped Hillbilly

I had never heard of this lady. Glad I hadn't now. From what you guys are saying, I haven't missed anything.

Take the conspiracy theorist lunacy of Alex Jones, and blend it in equal parts with the anti-Muslim obsessiveness of Robert Spencer, and the crass self-righteousness of "Dr. Laura", and that's sprt of a Cliff's Notes version.

267

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:46:15pm

re: #263 marjoriemoon

Disney is covering up Tinkerbell. The next move is a burqa.

World According to Schlussel.

Welcome to the Wingularity.

268

Gus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:46:30pm

re: #261 SanFranciscoZionist

See, that's crazy. Bringing in Sarah Palin's personal life into the discussion and re-writing her history and relationship with her husband Todd to fit into her preconceived notion of gender relationships and men at large.

269

Escaped Hillbilly Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:48:15pm

re: #261 SanFranciscoZionist

So funny when rich, successful, career women hate on rich, successful, career women...and their men. Suppose instead of castigating him for not being manly enough, we congratulated him for standing by his wife.

270

Dancing along the light of day Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:48:43pm

re: #260 Dark_Falcon

No, its not horrific. Its not good but Bristol Palin has an intact family who loves her and is able to help her raise her child. Most teen moms don't have that kind of support. Her life is not going to be easy, but she does have a better chance than most.

I think Bristol dodged a big bullet, finding out what the father of her child was really like, before getting married. My two cents.

271

firstinla Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:49:18pm

I was a teenager when Disneyland opened in 1955. I remember hearing our minister telling us he had written Walt Disney to tell him to put some pants on the cartoon characters.

272

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:49:29pm

re: #268 Gus 802

See, that's crazy. Bringing in Sarah Palin's personal life into the discussion and re-writing her history and relationship with her husband Todd to fit into her preconceived notion of gender relationships and men at large.

Hard to see exactly what Sarah and Todd's relationship has to do with Albert and Victoria's, but, you know. There it is.

273

Olsonist Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:50:02pm

re: #263 marjoriemoon

I was on a right wing blog once and I decided to defend the burqa. It was a kind of a writing exercise. There are burqas and there are burqas. There's the incredily elegant hajib. There's the bridal veil (burqa). Check out the burqas old Sicilian women wear for pretty much religious reasons. I could argue dark sunglasses are burqa-esque.

274

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:50:22pm

re: #264 allegro

And that is missing the point completely. Yes, it's wonderful that Bristol and her child have a loving, prosperous family to help. And yes, that is more than a lot of other young women have. But what ALL of those young women don't have is the right of their own sexuality without slut-shaming, without the right of being the sexual beings that they are, without CHOICE of their reproductive lives. You don't get it because it doesn't have meaning for you, as a male.

I'm not going to attempt a response. I have nothing to say about such matters of sex and parenthood because I avoid both things entirely. Mostly because my neurotic, unthinkingly self-centered nature makes me utterly unsuitable as either a husband or a father.

275

Escaped Hillbilly Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:50:49pm

re: #271 firstinla

Hilaaaarrious.

276

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:50:53pm

re: #270 Floral Giraffe

I think Bristol dodged a big bullet, finding out what the father of her child was really like, before getting married. My two cents.

Quite Concur.

277

What, me worry? Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:50:53pm

re: #264 allegro

And that is missing the point completely. Yes, it's wonderful that Bristol and her child have a loving, prosperous family to help. And yes, that is more than a lot of other young women have. But what ALL of those young women don't have is the right of their own sexuality without slut-shaming, without the right of being the sexual beings that they are, without CHOICE of their reproductive lives. You don't get it because it doesn't have meaning for you, as a male.

Not that I'm disagreeing with you because you have valid points, but I don't think it unusual for parents to make decisions on behalf of their minor pregnant daughters that may not always be what the daughter would want. Just saying.

Bristol's lot was cast before she got pregnant, as a Palin child. All of them will be under a microscope. Of course, Bristol has it worse because of the pregnancy and drama, but I suspect when the little ones get older, there will be plenty to go after them too.

Look at Chelsea. What she do? Nothing, but that didn't stop those for making fun of her.

278

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:51:28pm

re: #271 firstinla

I was a teenager when Disneyland opened in 1955. I remember hearing our minister telling us he had written Walt Disney to tell him to put some pants on the cartoon characters.

Apparently Walt didn't listen.

279

Olsonist Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:51:34pm

re: #274 Dark_Falcon

Is that you Levi?

280

Gus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:51:35pm

re: #265 SanFranciscoZionist

I think the new outfit is adorable.

And apparently she still wears the itty-bitty dress for evening wear in the new movie.

I really do not think this is the end for American womanhood.

Nope. Won't happen. It's a strong part of our biological destiny and aesthetic desires. Vice versa and everything else in between that makes up the human condition.

281

What, me worry? Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:52:03pm

re: #265 SanFranciscoZionist

I think the new outfit is adorable.

And apparently she still wears the itty-bitty dress for evening wear in the new movie.

I really do not think this is the end for American womanhood.

So that's what it is! I saw some clips of the movie and saw both outfits so I wasn't sure what Schlussel was yelling about.

282

Bagua Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:52:20pm

It is traditional for candidates to appear with their families at the convention and other political events. Sarah Palin uniquely is criticised for this. Likewise it is excessive to describe her infant as "unresponsive" he is not a vegetable, or to describe her daughter as being forced to have a baby. She likely has her own views on abortion and made her own choice in the context of her family and her beliefs.

283

Gus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:52:39pm

re: #272 SanFranciscoZionist

Hard to see exactly what Sarah and Todd's relationship has to do with Albert and Victoria's, but, you know. There it is.

I think she's making that stupid beta-male argument again. They do that at Hot Air all the time. Odd considering that Ed Morrissey and Allahpundit run the joint if you know what I mean.

284

What, me worry? Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:53:48pm

re: #273 Olsonist

I was on a right wing blog once and I decided to defend the burqa. It was a kind of a writing exercise. There are burqas and there are burqas. There's the incredily elegant hajib. There's the bridal veil (burqa). Check out the burqas old Sicilian women wear for pretty much religious reasons. I could argue dark sunglasses are burqa-esque.

There's the Sari too, which is quite elegant.

285

Olsonist Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:54:09pm

re: #277 marjoriemoon

Look at Chelsea. What she do? Nothing, but that didn't stop those for making fun of her.

Yeah, making fun of that Stanford educated, Rhodes scholar, ballet dancing role model.

286

Escaped Hillbilly Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:54:22pm

re: #278 SanFranciscoZionist

Cause he's trying to turn us all gay. Listen to Rush's take on gay days at DisneyWorld.
//

287

Gus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:54:46pm

re: #281 marjoriemoon

So that's what it is! I saw some clips of the movie and saw both outfits so I wasn't sure what Schlussel was yelling about.

I think the bottom line is that Schlussel is jealous of Tinkerbell -- an animated Disney character.

288

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:55:24pm

re: #279 Olsonist

Is that you Levi?

No, just somebody who understands his failing and works hard to keep them in check, but sometimes does not succeed. And I try to keep other people from being hurt by my mistakes as much as I can. Levi Johnson has a good bit of confidence, even though its misplaced. I have very little.

289

Olsonist Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:57:09pm

re: #288 Dark_Falcon

Just kidding with ya.

290

Mich-again Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:58:06pm

re: #257 SanFranciscoZionist

My goodness.

What on earth did you correct her on?

You know it was so stupid. I corrected her about the ethnic makeup of a certain neighborhood in Dearborn Heights. She tried to paint the area around the Van Born and Telegraph as a muslim enclave when it isn't. Its a blue collar, mostly all white area. The muslim enclaves are miles from there. That was it. But she doesn't like being corrected.

291

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 27, 2009 9:59:39pm

re: #289 Olsonist

Just kidding with ya.

I know. It's just that sometimes i need to talk about the problems in my life. Sometimes a use LGF to vent, though I vent without being a jerk.

292

Dancing along the light of day Sun, Dec 27, 2009 10:03:41pm

re: #291 Dark_Falcon

293

Gus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 10:03:52pm

re: #286 Escaped Hillbilly

Cause he's trying to turn us all gay. Listen to Rush's take on gay days at DisneyWorld.
//

Last party I went to was over at a neighbor's apartment. He's gay. While there I met some of his straight women friends and let me tell ya' I was smitten. Folks like Rush are confused. You can't "turn" people gay or straight otherwise. I'm tired of the stupid gay paranoia.

294

Dancing along the light of day Sun, Dec 27, 2009 10:06:06pm

re: #279 Olsonist

If you use a
/
at the end of your post, it's a sarcasm tag.
Sometimes helps to clarify your intent.
Trying to be helpful, not mean.

295

What, me worry? Sun, Dec 27, 2009 10:06:12pm

re: #290 Mich-again

You know it was so stupid. I corrected her about the ethnic makeup of a certain neighborhood in Dearborn Heights. She tried to paint the area around the Van Born and Telegraph as a muslim enclave when it isn't. Its a blue collar, mostly all white area. The muslim enclaves are miles from there. That was it. But she doesn't like being corrected.

Sorry I missed that! Good for you!

296

allegro Sun, Dec 27, 2009 10:08:12pm

re: #293 Gus 802

You can't "turn" people gay or straight otherwise.

Is this a surprise? Seriously. I really wonder about that.

297

Olsonist Sun, Dec 27, 2009 10:12:59pm

re: #294 Floral Giraffe

Thanks but I just can't do it. Can't. So instead I just dig myself into and out of holes. I'm used to it by now. It kind of reminds me of that scene in Cool Hand Luke.

Boss Kean say that's his ditch. I tol' him that there dirt is yore dirt. What's yore dirt doin' in his ditch?

298

Escaped Hillbilly Sun, Dec 27, 2009 10:13:39pm

re: #296 allegro

Rush (and some other conservative commentators) have said Gay Days at Disney World is evidence of Disney's hidden "gay agenda". They seem to think Disney is a gay organization. The implication of the "gay agenda" is that exposing kids to gays causes them to become gay, or merely be more accepting of a "gay lifestyle."

299

Gus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 10:14:37pm

re: #296 allegro

Is this a surprise? Seriously. I really wonder about that.

It's not a surprise. It's rather simple in that you can't.

300

What, me worry? Sun, Dec 27, 2009 10:14:51pm

re: #293 Gus 802

Last party I went to was over at a neighbor's apartment. He's gay. While there I met some of his straight women friends and let me tell ya' I was smitten. Folks like Rush are confused. You can't "turn" people gay or straight otherwise. I'm tired of the stupid gay paranoia.

Our neighborhood is about 30% gay, 3 gay couples on our street, one we consider our good friends.

They'd always invite us to parties that were all gay men and a couple lesbian couples. We were the token straights I guess. It's never been a big deal. When I was younger, it was kitchy and camp and queens are so very entertaining, but now I look around the room and all I see is a bunch of men who are prettier than me.

Then they start flirting with my husband and that's when he asks if we can go :) Anyway, we now have a glass of wine with them on the porch and skip the parties.

301

What, me worry? Sun, Dec 27, 2009 10:16:48pm

re: #298 Escaped Hillbilly

Rush (and some other conservative commentators) have said Gay Days at Disney World is evidence of Disney's hidden "gay agenda". They seem to think Disney is a gay organization. The implication of the "gay agenda" is that exposing kids to gays causes them to become gay, or merely be more accepting of a "gay lifestyle."

Well Disney was a trailblazer (oddly enough as Walt was such a bigot) in gay rights. Disney was recognizing same sex couples way before any large corporation did. They paid for healthcare for gay employees. In the last 15-20 years, Disney has been very gay friendly. Nothing wrong with that.

302

Dancing along the light of day Sun, Dec 27, 2009 10:18:07pm

re: #297 Olsonist

Your choice, your posts.
It can get, well, challenging here, when people don't get your sarcasm.
( isn't that a nice way to put it?)

303

Dancing along the light of day Sun, Dec 27, 2009 10:18:51pm

re: #301 marjoriemoon

Well, it IS the happiest place on earth!
LOL!

304

What, me worry? Sun, Dec 27, 2009 10:19:10pm

re: #303 Floral Giraffe

Well, it IS the happiest place on earth!
LOL!

ROFL!

305

Escaped Hillbilly Sun, Dec 27, 2009 10:20:11pm

re: #301 marjoriemoon

The funny thing to me is, Disney doesn't even organize Gay Days. These are privately organized events. They are handled like any other group.

306

Dancing along the light of day Sun, Dec 27, 2009 10:24:28pm

re: #304 marjoriemoon

Grew up not all that far from Disneyland. Classmate in high school's Dad was a Disney VP. He loved women's tennis. Every big tourney we won, CASES of Mickey tennis balls. LOL! We traded them with other teams, who were SOOOOO jealous we had them.

307

Gus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 10:24:54pm

re: #298 Escaped Hillbilly

Rush (and some other conservative commentators) have said Gay Days at Disney World is evidence of Disney's hidden "gay agenda". They seem to think Disney is a gay organization. The implication of the "gay agenda" is that exposing kids to gays causes them to become gay, or merely be more accepting of a "gay lifestyle."

Gay agenda! Dog whistle of the homophobes. I doubt that many straight families visit Disney during Gay Days so the argument about "exposure" is null. If that were even remotely true then everyone that grew up in NY NY should be gay which is far from the case.

Rush Limbaugh of course wants to ban such events like the Taliban. Even though he's been married what, three times now? Last time I checked invoking my old Catholic card that was immoral. Do I care? No.

308

Olsonist Sun, Dec 27, 2009 10:25:26pm

re: #306 Floral Giraffe

Which HS? I went to Troy in Fullerton.

309

What, me worry? Sun, Dec 27, 2009 10:26:04pm

re: #305 Escaped Hillbilly

The funny thing to me is, Disney doesn't even organize Gay Days. These are privately organized events. They are handled like any other group.

Yes, but they host it which I think is pretty 21st century stuff too.

My g/f is a Pentecostal Democrat. Odd duck. Her church is evangelical, but she's not the preachy sort. At any rate, we live about 3 hour drive from Disney so she takes her grandkids fairly often. You know where I'm going? She ended up there on Gay Days and was furious that no one told her when she booked the tickets. She had to explain to her grandkids why all the boys were kissing.

I guess it's not funny, but I busted out laughing when she told me.

310

Escaped Hillbilly Sun, Dec 27, 2009 10:30:27pm

re: #307 Gus 802

We accidentally attended once when one of these events was going on. Wouldn't have intentionally having heard all kinds of crazy stories. Turns out that's all they were, stories. It was two days into the vacation before we realized why there were so many men without wives and kids in tow. Nobody was misbehaving. And lots of other people were in attendance, with and without families. Another nonissue blown out of proportion...kinda like complaining about Tinkerbell's costume.

311

Dancing along the light of day Sun, Dec 27, 2009 10:39:28pm

re: #304 marjoriemoon

Had a super exchange student as a doubles partner, my junior year. Carmina ( put a tidly over the n). She was a scream, and a better doubles player than I was, and FUN to play with. When she'd miss a shot in practise she'd say "my Christhmas geeft to yoooou". I still laugh & say it when I flub.

312

Gus Sun, Dec 27, 2009 10:39:46pm

re: #310 Escaped Hillbilly

We accidentally attended once when one of these events was going on. Wouldn't have intentionally having heard all kinds of crazy stories. Turns out that's all they were, stories. It was two days into the vacation before we realized why there were so many men without wives and kids in tow. Nobody was misbehaving. And lots of other people were in attendance, with and without families. Another nonissue blown out of proportion...kinda like complaining about Tinkerbell's costume.

I've yet to see anything approaching misbehaving. Gets a little goofy in fact. I'm often amazed at how square gays can be. We need to put aside whatever Zombietime or Zombie has shown us in the past. He/she seeks the most extreme events many of has never seen or will never see. We can't judge people based on the nth percentiles. People are not the "worst case scenario." People are rather prudent and that includes gay folks.

313

Petero1818 Sun, Dec 27, 2009 10:44:49pm

re: #32 SteveMcG

I'm not buying that Hamas and Syria crumble if the theocracy falls. They'll get their funding, and my hunch would be that whatever replaces the theocracy will be pretty passive for a while.

I have to agree with you. If you recall, one of the leaders of the so called moderate opposition during the last election was Rafsanjani. You will also recall that Rafsanjani when he was Iran's leader a few years ago actually said that it would be acceptable for Iran to sacrifice itself for the greater cause of destroying Israel. He was discussing the possibility of Iran using nukes against Israel knowing Israel would retaliate with overwhelming nuclear force against Iran. I am not saying that what is happening now is not a good thing, it surely is, but I think our expectations of what a new government would bring are foolishly optimistic at best.

314

Bagua Sun, Dec 27, 2009 10:46:51pm

re: #311 Floral Giraffe