The Pentagon Shooter’s Extreme Right-Libertarian Beliefs, Revisited

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I’ve had serious differences of opinion with Media Matters blogger Eric Boehlert in the past, but his latest piece on the desperately absurd efforts of the right wing blogosphere to label Pentagon shooter John Patrick Bedell as a “left winger” is right on the money: The Pentagon shooter, insurrectionism, and right-wing bloggers.

On the one hand, right-wing media love mainstreaming vile, alarmist, anti-government rhetoric. Yet they’re also hyper-sensitive to the charge that they’re, y’know, mainstreaming vile, alarmist anti-government rhetoric and might also be goading some crazies into action. Consumed with Obama Derangement Syndrome, ‘wingers literally cannot help themselves. Just this weekend, one prominent, albeit unhinged, right-wing site branded Obama as “suicide-bomber-in-chief.” They’ve removed all sensible filters, which means the crazy talk flows 24-7.

Similar to the problematic birther brigade, the right-wing’s crazy uncle who keeps showing up at public functions, radical insurrectionist rhetoric (i.e. war may have to be waged against the government) has been unleashed into the far-right masses and there’s nothing that supposed leaders can do to contain it. They can’t limit the violence that it continues to set off, either. Instead they scramble, like after last week’s Pentagon attack, to shift the blame to the political left.

But the clumsy scapegoating doesn’t work for obvious reasons: There are no major American liberal players, in media or politics, who today routinely preach the need to take up arms against the federal government. Conservative blogger Erick Erickson certainly couldn’t point to any in his laugh-out-loud funny rewriting of history, in which he dutifully absolved the right-wing of any responsibility for anti-government violence, and instead blamed liberals. …

Bloggers also pointed to the fact that Bedell was reportedly a registered Democrat as more proof of his allegiance to the left. But that doesn’t make much sense, either. Are bloggers really suggesting that no registered Democrats have attended anti-government Tea Party rallies this year? Haven’t Tea Party leaders been bragging about how they’re attracting a wide range of disaffected voters? And in fact, haven’t Tea Party leaders been stressing how wrong it is to assume the movement is synonymous with the Republican Party? But suddenly a distant political registration proves all.

For the record, I’m not suggesting that Bedell was a dedicated Glenn Beck fan, or that Rush Limbaugh made him do it. I think the specifics of this case are too muddled for those kinds of conclusions. But the idea that panicked right-wing bloggers can turn Bedell into a tree-hugging Greenpeace activist is ludicrous. The allegation doesn’t withstand scrutiny, simply because dangerous, anti-government rhetoric is not part of today’s liberal dialogue.

It is however, a proud cornerstone of the conservative one.

Unfortunately, very true.

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248 comments
1 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:06:32pm

But all the blogs say he was a leftist just like the Nazis were... and those Darwinists too!

2 Kragar  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:08:17pm

"Sure, we've been promoting violent revolution and armed revolt against the government, but we never said we were going to kill anyone. Must be a liberal."

///

3 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:08:34pm

Ohh and sarc tag too for post 1 just in case anyone missed it.

4 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:09:53pm

Jesse Walker at Reason has a good piece up with a somewhat counter-viewpoint.

5 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:15:21pm

re: #4 RogueOne

Jesse Walker at Reason has a good piece up with a somewhat counter-viewpoint.

Right -- Walker is trying to deny that Bedell's twisted anti-government ideology comes straight out of extreme right libertarianism. And why would he do that at a libertarian website? Hmm. It's a head-scratcher.

6 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:15:36pm

Wow. Of course it was our pal Andy's Big Journalmalism site that called Obama the 'suicide-bomber-in-chief', i see.

7 freetoken  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:15:55pm

re: #4 RogueOne

The libertarians at Reason are desperate to avoid the truth: Bedell was a hardcore believer in Fundamentalist Libertarianism.

8 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:15:59pm

re: #6 iceweasel

Wow. Of course it was our pal Andy's Big Journalmalism site that called Obama the 'suicide-bomber-in-chief', i see.

Srsly???

9 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:16:19pm

This is something new I learned about Bedell today:

From his wiki-page:
[Link: www.bazpedia.com...]


One desired result of my effort is (will be) billions and billions of carefully cultivated, highly valuable cannabis plants growing throughout the United States with complete security of property. I have posted the image to the right in order to illustrate the use of cannabis as a monetary system using digital financial instruments. There are two information currency units in each of the PDF417 codes pictured. One of the information currency units is drawn from a series with "one gram cannabis" with the underlying asset, and the second ICU in each code has as its underlying asset the URL....pdf and the SHA-1 digest value of the file at that location. This is a way of associating the work of Ludwig von Mises with financial value, which may be a tool to implement his ideas in reality. I hope someday to see full-reserve banking and observance of Article One, Section 10 of the US Constitution.

A monetary system based on weed. Somehow I don't think he thought his plan all the way through.

10 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:16:56pm

re: #4 RogueOne

Fearmongering at the SPLC?

Looks like standard denialism to me. Nothing other than excuses and deflections that I've seen a million times.

11 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:17:03pm

re: #8 Varek Raith

Srsly???

Yeah, if you follow the link to the MediaMatters piece, you'll find it there.

12 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:18:08pm

re: #5 Charles

Right -- Walker is trying to deny that Bedell's twisted anti-government ideology comes straight out of extreme right libertarianism. And why would he do that at a libertarian website? Hmm. It's a head-scratcher.

I see your point but that isn't quite what he said, his take is it's a mistake to try to label "lone-wolf" nuts as being anything other than they are, nuts.

13 Syrius  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:18:08pm

Perception is Reality. The Right Wing Nutters deservedly reap what they sow. They will disown any and all crazy nutters who actually listen to their rhetoric and act on their behalf. Is it really entertainment when people are getting hurt by the spewing of hatred by the Becks, Limbaughs, Malkins, Coulters and the rest of rightwing nutter talking heads?

14 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:19:08pm

re: #8 Varek Raith

Srsly???

Here, you don't have to visit Breitblart-- MMFA did a piece on it:

Breitbart's Big Journalism calls President Obama the "suicide-bomber-in-chief"

March 07, 2010 3:14 am ET by Media Matters staff

From a March 6 Big Journalism post:

Mark Steyn is always right, whether he's writing about Andrew Lloyd Webber or, in this case, the suicide-bomber-in-chief, Barack Obama, who doesn't much care how many Democrats get sent to the electoral Elysian Fields -- or even whether he gets a second term -- as long as he can blow up the capitalist system from within. Excuse me -- effect "fundamental change." And what better way to get Hussein's camel's nose under your hospital gown than by taking over the American health-care system, all under the guise of "reform?"
15 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:19:17pm

re: #11 iceweasel

Yeah, if you follow the link to the MediaMatters piece, you'll find it there.

Ah, got it. MediaMatters doesn't work on my end. Sigh, something I no doubt unintentionally did.

16 torrentprime  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:19:25pm

re: #12 RogueOne

I see your point but that isn't quite what he said, his take is it's a mistake to try to label "lone-wolf" nuts as being anything other than they are, nuts.

And seeking to illuminate the atmosphere and culture that gave shape and direction to their nuttiness is a fruitless exercise? C'mon....

17 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:19:51pm

re: #14 iceweasel

Thanks!

18 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:20:24pm

re: #9 RogueOne

Ron Paul wants to go back to the 1800's and the gold standard, Bedell "out Pauls" Paul by wanting to go back to a monetary system that might have worked in 1800 BC.

19 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:20:25pm

re: #10 Killgore Trout

Fearmongering at the SPLC?

Looks like standard denialism to me. Nothing other than excuses and deflections that I've seen a million times.

Did I miss the reference to the SPLC? I know a lot of libertarians aren't real happy with them but I didn't see anything in the article that addresses the SPLC.

20 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:20:27pm

I have yet to catch one of these threads when they have a pulse, so here are my 2 cents.

I have spent plenty of time on the UC Santa Cruz campus, mostly in the 80s.

I would not describe the place as a hot bed of the John Birch Society.

This guy struck me on day one as a wrap-around-extremist. There at the left/right wrap around point. There are plenty of those on that campus.

Certainly the right blogosphere is inclined to paint the guy as pure leftist, but I see the left blogs using that mis-characterization to paint him as right. It is "no win" because calling it for one side implies the other has it correct. It is the trap of the false binary opposition, unless the oppositions are rational vs. mind-fucked Internut conspiracy fed whacko.

IMO, the Internet has done much to propagate ill-considered memes and pre-packaged views because they move through the interwebs faster than sober analysis and thereby drive hits. And I think our ability to produce new found cranks that defy prior spectral analysis has been greatly enhanced as a result.

So we will see more of these kinds of loons just as we saw nazis organizing to support Cindy Sheehan (who I used to deride but now pity).

21 windsagio  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:20:27pm

re: #1 LudwigVanQuixote

But all the blogs say he was a leftist just like the Nazis were...

you beat me too it, but anyways to go on with a thing it has to do with loyalty, brand identity, and a black/white view of society.

On the left, we've had to accept that some pretty terrible leftists have been in the world (You know, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc), but there's a tendency with many on the right to not look at things with such complexity.

Anything good has to be conservative, and anything bad has to be actually liberal somehow. Its a big drain on our ability to actually have real dialogue.

22 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:21:02pm

re: #18 Slumbering Behemoth

Ron Paul wants to go back to the 1800's and the gold standard, Bedell "out Pauls" Paul by wanting to go back to a monetary system that might have worked in 1800 BC.

You've never heard me say one nice thing about Ron Paul, have you?

23 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:21:40pm

re: #16 torrentprime

And seeking to illuminate the atmosphere and culture that gave shape and direction to their nuttiness is a fruitless exercise? C'mon...

So we ignore the fact he was in and out of mental institutions?

24 windsagio  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:21:48pm

re: #18 Slumbering Behemoth

I want galactic credits.

25 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:22:33pm

re: #10 Killgore Trout

Fearmongering at the SPLC?

Looks like standard denialism to me. Nothing other than excuses and deflections that I've seen a million times.

The SPLC are fearmongers. I pay them to direct a bit of my fear into useful nooks and crannies. It might be a complete waste, could possibly become important.

26 windsagio  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:23:00pm

re: #23 RogueOne

No, but we also don't ignore that he had a right-wing philosophy, or that there's a set of rhetoric out there on the right that actively encourages people to do this kind of thing.

Naturally, only the crazy people have the cojones to go through with it~ The sane ones juts have fantasies >

27 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:23:01pm

re: #22 RogueOne

Oh, no. That wasn't a criticism, just an observation. I was hoping to get a chuckle or two, but I may have to re-calibrate my funny bone after that one.

28 windsagio  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:23:51pm

re: #27 Slumbering Behemoth

When one feels their whole political philosophy is under attack, they're not likely to find anything funny :p

29 torrentprime  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:24:11pm

re: #23 RogueOne

So we ignore the fact he was in and out of mental institutions?

Well, this IS a zero-sum game. God knows it's one or the other.
/
Are you saying it's not possible to do both? Is there some reason, "oh, well, he was nuts" should bring to an absolute end to further analysis? Should we not look to his life to see what kinds of things helped drive him to action? Or do we just throw our hands up and make "cuckoo" noises?

30 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:24:39pm

re: #28 windsagio

Wot?!?

31 researchok  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:24:54pm

Eric Boehlert is right. Those pushing the Bedell/lefty dialogue are no different than the BusHitler crowd and are just about as credible.

32 windsagio  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:25:32pm

re: #30 Slumbering Behemoth

Lets put it a more scifi geek way. His shields are up, full power. You think a joke will get through that? :p

33 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:25:45pm

re: #26 windsagio

No, but we also don't ignore that he had a right-wing philosophy, or that there's a set of rhetoric out there on the right that actively encourages people to do this kind of thing.

Naturally, only the crazy people have the cojones to go through with it~ The sane ones juts have fantasies >

Think about what you just said and what we're talking about. The man was a mental patient with obvious psychological issues. Would we have tarred NASA with the shooting if he was concerned about the moon landing being faked? How do you give any credence to any philosophy a mental patient holds?

34 Red Pencil  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:25:47pm

re: #9 RogueOne

This is something new I learned about Bedell today:

From his wiki-page:
[Link: www.bazpedia.com...]


A monetary system based on weed. Somehow I don't think he thought his plan all the way through.

Well, if cannabis=currency, when you're burning through capital, the irrational exuberance will make sense, biochemically.

35 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:26:01pm

re: #12 RogueOne

I see your point but that isn't quite what he said, his take is it's a mistake to try to label "lone-wolf" nuts as being anything other than they are, nuts.

And I strongly disagree. The reason why we're seeing so many of these incidents lately is directly attributable to the increasing craziness of the rhetoric coming out of the far right.

Sure, Bedell was probably nuts. But that's exactly the point. The hate speech and deranged conspiracy theories that are all over the right wing and Ron Paul libertarian sites are dangerous, precisely because they tweak the crazies like Bedell and inspire them to violent crimes.

36 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:27:03pm

I'd say...

It was his political philosophy that supplied his motivation, and his insanity that empowered his actions.

37 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:27:23pm

re: #29 torrentprime

Well, this IS a zero-sum game. God knows it's one or the other.
/
Are you saying it's not possible to do both? Is there some reason, "oh, well, he was nuts" should bring to an absolute end to further analysis? Should we not look to his life to see what kinds of things helped drive him to action? Or do we just throw our hands up and make "cuckoo" noises?

When the man is cuckoo, you make the cuckoo noises. I think it's a waste of energy trying to understand why crazy people do the things they do. They do the things they do because they're crazy.

38 windsagio  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:27:28pm

re: #33 RogueOne

Think about what you just said and what we're talking about. The man was a mental patient with obvious psychological issues. Would we have tarred NASA with the shooting if he was concerned about the moon landing being faked? How do you give any credence to any philosophy a mental patient holds?

Wow, that's a bad metaphor. We might 'tar and feather' the site/group that said the moon landing were faked and we had to destroy NASA if he had attacked NASA.

There, that's a better comparison.

39 Locker  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:27:34pm

Great article. I read MM a lot but missed this particular entry. His feelings echo mine, especially when the right wing chorus (even here) start up with the whole "The left does it too! They are just as bad!". In this case, on this issue, they are nowhere near as bad. Not even in the same stadium.

40 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:27:37pm

re: #14 iceweasel

WOW.

41 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:27:48pm

re: #32 windsagio

Lets put it a more scifi geek way. His shields are up, full power. You think a joke will get through that? :p

I'm not reading him that way. :shrugs:

42 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:28:04pm

All the symbolism behind the Tea Party is that of True Patriots resisting tyranny. Save for the fact that this "tyranny" is a legally and democratically elected government and not a hereditary king across the ocean.

But when one moves far enough out onto the fringe, the designations "right" and "left" no longer really apply. Marxist leftists dream of the day that the state "withers away", the extreme right wants to see the state shrunk down small enough that it can be drowned in a bathtub.

43 windsagio  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:28:11pm

re: #36 Slumbering Behemoth

I'd say...

It was his political philosophy that supplied his motivation, and his insanity that empowered his actions.

Bold, italic, etc. Exactly.

44 windsagio  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:28:42pm

re: #43 windsagio

damn bold didn't take :p

re: #41 Slumbering Behemoth

fair enough; I won't involve you :p

45 torrentprime  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:28:43pm

re: #33 RogueOne

Think about what you just said and what we're talking about. The man was a mental patient with obvious psychological issues. Would we have tarred NASA with the shooting if he was concerned about the moon landing being faked? How do you give any credence to any philosophy a mental patient holds?

I don't think many here are in danger of giving credence to the right-wing fringe "philosophy." What we do want to do is study and note its effects in the (rest of the) real world, something you seem very sure we should not do.

46 researchok  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:29:11pm

re: #35 Charles

And I strongly disagree. The reason why we're seeing so many of these incidents lately is directly attributable to the increasing craziness of the rhetoric coming out of the far right.

Sure, Bedell was probably nuts. But that's exactly the point. The hate speech and deranged conspiracy theories that are all over the right wing and Ron Paul libertarian sites are dangerous, precisely because they tweak the crazies like Bedell and inspire them to violent crimes.

Agreed. The far right rhetoric fueled Bedell's craziness. They yelled 'fire!' and started his rampage of crazy.

47 cliffster  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:29:53pm

Toyota expanding recall of rusty Tundra pickups

Toyota is going to expand its recall of the 2000 to 2003 Tundra pickup to include the entire country -- not just 20 cold-weather states.

Owners of Tundras originally sold or currently registered in the remaining 30 states will be notified by Toyota in the coming weeks. In the original recall, corrosion could lead to spare tires falling from the vehicle's underside, as well as excessive corrosion affecting brake lines and fuel tank straps.

48 Red Pencil  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:30:11pm

re: #37 RogueOne

When the man is cuckoo, you make the cuckoo noises. I think it's a waste of energy trying to understand why crazy people do the things they do. They do the things they do because they're crazy.

Hmm, like the Ft Hood shooter? Should we ignore the influence of Islamic hate preachers on Malik Hasan, just because Hasan was nuts? I wouldn't.

49 Locker  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:30:28pm

re: #35 Charles

And I strongly disagree. The reason why we're seeing so many of these incidents lately is directly attributable to the increasing craziness of the rhetoric coming out of the far right.

Sure, Bedell was probably nuts. But that's exactly the point. The hate speech and deranged conspiracy theories that are all over the right wing and Ron Paul libertarian sites are dangerous, precisely because they tweak the crazies like Bedell and inspire them to violent crimes.

I can't help but imagine that in the twisted minds of some these folks they will be considered "heroes" by their "side" for their horrible actions. How would they come to that conclusion if their "side" wasn't constantly pumping up these attitudes and encouraging this type of behavior. In the case of Scott Roeder, it might even be true... in a limited sense.

50 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:30:34pm

re: #45 torrentprime

I don't think many here are in danger of giving credence to the right-wing fringe "philosophy." What we do want to do is study and note its effects in the (rest of the) real world, something you seem very sure we should not do.

Yeah, I'm trying to keep the truth from you. It's all part of the conspiracy.

51 windsagio  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:31:09pm

re: #48 Red Pencil

Hmm, like the Ft Hood shooter? Should we ignore the influence of Islamic hate preachers on Malik Hasan, just because Hasan was nuts? I wouldn't.

Islam is Evil, so he's not crazy, just evil.

(no I don't really believe that, you're absolutely right, but that'd be one of the arguments)

52 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:31:25pm

re: #50 RogueOne

BIG ROGUEONE IS RIPPING US OFF!

53 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:32:03pm

I have to take off home, I'll be back. Beat me up in my absence.

54 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:32:57pm

re: #53 RogueOne

Aw, you didn't even leave a suitable, surrogate meat-puppet. Dang.

55 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:33:00pm

re: #46 researchok

Agreed. The far right rhetoric fueled Bedell's craziness. They yelled 'fire!' and started his rampage of crazy.

God knows, some people don't need a whole lot.

56 pharmmajor  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:33:13pm

re: #12 RogueOne

I see your point but that isn't quite what he said, his take is it's a mistake to try to label "lone-wolf" nuts as being anything other than they are, nuts.

Exactly, but people from all over the spectrum are jumping on this as an opportunity to demonize the political parties they don't like. And again, I think that Charles is falling into this trap by implying that such radicalism as exhibited by Bedell is common among all libertarians, much like he's done with Ron Paul in the past.

57 windsagio  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:33:58pm

re: #53 RogueOne

I have to take off home, I'll be back. Beat me up in my absence.

I know you're leaving so I just will have to hope you catch this.

This is exactly what I mean. We think your position is wrong, and are trying to convince you of that. You took an attack on you position as a personal attack. Its a problem.

58 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:34:09pm

It's the stupid economy, stupid.

59 shiplord kirel  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:34:14pm

re: #35 Charles

And I strongly disagree. The reason why we're seeing so many of these incidents lately is directly attributable to the increasing craziness of the rhetoric coming out of the far right.

Sure, Bedell was probably nuts. But that's exactly the point. The hate speech and deranged conspiracy theories that are all over the right wing and Ron Paul libertarian sites are dangerous, precisely because they tweak the crazies like Bedell and inspire them to violent crimes.

Validation from others; especially from authority figures like a Congressman or (for many) the media, can cause mentally ill people to act on their delusions when they might not otherwise. The mentally ill are usually not delusional or psychotic all the time. Having their delusions confirmed during a period of lucidity can confirm those delusions and remove any restraint their remaining rationality might be able to provide.

60 cliffster  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:34:33pm

re: #47 cliffster

I'll give you 2 to 1 that Toyota just didn't want to issue a brake recall on another vehicle. So they crafted this on.. "corrosion". Spare tires might fall off. (Oh, and brake lines might be affected).

61 researchok  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:34:41pm

re: #55 SanFranciscoZionist

God knows, some people don't need a whole lot.

No truer words...

62 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:34:51pm

re: #56 pharmmajor

Exactly, but people from all over the spectrum are jumping on this as an opportunity to demonize the political parties they don't like. And again, I think that Charles is falling into this trap by implying that such radicalism as exhibited by Bedell is common among all libertarians, much like he's done with Ron Paul in the past.

I said no such thing. Please don't put words in my mouth.

63 Locker  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:35:14pm

re: #56 pharmmajor

Exactly, but people from all over the spectrum are jumping on this as an opportunity to demonize the political parties they don't like. And again, I think that Charles is falling into this trap by implying that such radicalism as exhibited by Bedell is common among all libertarians, much like he's done with Ron Paul in the past.

FYI he doesn't have to imply jack and squat. There is photographic evidence of these jerk waters all over the internet from the tea party gaggles. While his radicalism might not be common among "all" libertarians it is definitely common among a "lot" of libertarians and they aren't shy about screaming it at the tops of their lungs.

64 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:36:05pm

re: #56 pharmmajor

I think that Charles is falling into this trap by implying that such radicalism as exhibited by Bedell is common among all libertarians, much like he's done with Ron Paul in the past.

Have an exact quote to back up that assertion?

65 pharmmajor  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:36:08pm

re: #35 Charles

And I strongly disagree. The reason why we're seeing so many of these incidents lately is directly attributable to the increasing craziness of the rhetoric coming out of the far right.

Sure, Bedell was probably nuts. But that's exactly the point. The hate speech and deranged conspiracy theories that are all over the right wing and Ron Paul libertarian sites are dangerous, precisely because they tweak the crazies like Bedell and inspire them to violent crimes.

If you'll forgive me for posting this, Penn Jillette has a counterpoint for this argument:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CoLAbRKczo

66 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:36:14pm

re: #56 pharmmajor

You think Charles has been too hard on Ron Paul? Ron "Amend the constitution to ban abortion if that's what it takes" Paul?

67 windsagio  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:36:14pm

re: #56 pharmmajor

Exactly, but people from all over the spectrum are jumping on this as an opportunity to demonize the political parties they don't like. And again, I think that Charles is falling into this trap by implying that such radicalism as exhibited by Bedell is common among all libertarians, much like he's done with Ron Paul in the past.

Do you think his actions aren't linked to the extreme libertarian rhetoric?

(PS - for strawmanning, the bit in question is bolded)

68 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:36:28pm

re: #48 Red Pencil

Hmm, like the Ft Hood shooter? Should we ignore the influence of Islamic hate preachers on Malik Hasan, just because Hasan was nuts? I wouldn't.

No one perfectly sane does such things. At the same time, no one responsible and virtuous pushes the crazy over the edge.

To take an example, the man who shot Dr. Tiller is probably more than a bit screwed up. But he took up the gun after literally years of Terry Randall and his ilk repeatedly calling in every barely legal way they could for an assassination.

When you get up on a platform and scream about tyranny and terrorism at the White House, you are putting out a casting call for a lone gunman. Anyone who wants to use fiery political rhetoric must understand this.

69 brookly red  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:36:42pm

re: #58 Spare O'Lake

It's the stupid economy, stupid.

you may be on to something here.

70 pharmmajor  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:36:50pm

re: #62 Charles

I said no such thing. Please don't put words in my mouth.

Sorry. I misinterpreted the points you were raising, and I apologize.

71 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:36:57pm

re: #48 Red Pencil

Hmm, like the Ft Hood shooter? Should we ignore the influence of Islamic hate preachers on Malik Hasan, just because Hasan was nuts? I wouldn't.

Best analogy of the thread, if i may humbly say...

72 pharmmajor  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:37:21pm

re: #66 Obdicut

You think Charles has been too hard on Ron Paul? Ron "Amend the constitution to ban abortion if that's what it takes" Paul?

No, I said I thought Charles was implying that all libertarians were like Ron Paul. Again, I was mistaken and I apologize.

73 windsagio  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:37:21pm

re: #71 Aceofwhat?

It really is.

74 cliffster  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:37:22pm

re: #53 RogueOne

I have to take off home, I'll be back. Beat me up in my absence.

I can't stand that joker RogueOne. Who's with me?

75 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:37:28pm

re: #42 ralphieboy

All the symbolism behind the Tea Party is that of True Patriots resisting tyranny. Save for the fact that this "tyranny" is a legally and democratically elected government and not a hereditary king across the ocean.

But when one moves far enough out onto the fringe, the designations "right" and "left" no longer really apply. Marxist leftists dream of the day that the state "withers away", the extreme right wants to see the state shrunk down small enough that it can be drowned in a bathtub.

Yet both groups find easy answers through authoritarian actions. Expedient methods for solving thorny problems seem to involve imposition of will by force on the proles who oppose "what is right". The far left and the far right have a track record of contempt for pluralism and democracy.

76 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:37:48pm

re: #56 pharmmajor

read #48 again

77 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:39:14pm

re: #72 pharmmajor

Do you disagree that Bedell's views would find an appreciate audience at a tea party convention? Short of, you know, the plane part?

(the weed part, obviously, would get a very mixed reaction. But all he's saying is that fiat currency is bad and we should replace it with something else, really.)

78 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:39:42pm
79 cliffster  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:40:41pm

re: #77 Obdicut

Ben Hur's not here? I'll say it for him.. don't be hatin' on the weed

80 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:41:14pm

re: #74 cliffster

I can't stand that joker RogueOne. Who's with me?

Yeah! Let's wait 'til he passes out, and draw dirty pictures on his face with a sharpie.

81 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:41:15pm

re: #77 Obdicut

Do you disagree that Bedell's views would find an appreciate audience at a tea party convention? Short of, you know, the plane part?

(the weed part, obviously, would get a very mixed reaction. But all he's saying is that fiat currency is bad and we should replace it with something else, really.)

Wait, wasn't Stack the plane, and Bedell the one at the Pentagon? Is it a bad sign that I'm starting to mix up the crazy domestic terrorists?

82 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:41:30pm

In Bud We Trust

83 pharmmajor  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:41:33pm

re: #77 Obdicut

Do you disagree that Bedell's views would find an appreciate audience at a tea party convention? Short of, you know, the plane part?

(the weed part, obviously, would get a very mixed reaction. But all he's saying is that fiat currency is bad and we should replace it with something else, really.)

I think that when he got to the more extreme parts of his manifesto, the rational people would get up and leave to get away from him.

84 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:41:58pm

re: #72 pharmmajor

No, I said I thought Charles was implying that all libertarians were like Ron Paul. Again, I was mistaken and I apologize.

Look - you are falling into the very same false binary opposition trap that I mentioned earlier.

Charles can condemn the right wing blogosphere for getting it wrong without endorsing the notion that you are stating. Nor does he have to disclaim it. Or so, "not to imply ..."

The problem with cyber balkinization is that any criticism of a group ends up being viewed as endorsement of the group(s) that are often engaged in criticizing said group.

85 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:42:00pm

re: #79 cliffster

I don't, trust me. I'm a San Franciscan.

86 cliffster  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:42:06pm

re: #81 SanFranciscoZionist

Wait, wasn't Stack the plane, and Bedell the one at the Pentagon? Is it a bad sign that I'm starting to mix up the crazy domestic terrorists?

Yes, and yes

87 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:42:22pm

Like what part, for example?

We can test this hypothesis, I think.

88 shiplord kirel  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:42:37pm

re: #81 SanFranciscoZionist

Wait, wasn't Stack the plane, and Bedell the one at the Pentagon? Is it a bad sign that I'm starting to mix up the crazy domestic terrorists?

True, that. Stack was the self-barbecuing nutburger in Austin, Bedell was the loon who thought he could take down the Pentagon with a handgun.

89 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:42:54pm

re: #86 cliffster

Yes, and yes

Ah Jaysus, I did that too.

That's fucked up.

90 cliffster  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:43:12pm

re: #80 Slumbering Behemoth

Yeah! Let's wait 'til he passes out, and draw dirty pictures on his face with a sharpie.

Me and my buddies used to do that to each other. Strong friendships, we had

91 avanti  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:44:05pm

If you have a Facebook account, watch this video and witness some cool programing as you end up in a Beck video.

Beck.

92 brookly red  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:44:17pm

re: #88 shiplord kirel

True, that. Stack was the self-barbecuing nutburger in Austin, Bedell was the loon who thought he could take down the Pentagon with a handgun.

we need a program or something to keep track...

93 simoom  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:44:48pm

re: #35 Charles

Sure, Bedell was probably nuts. But that's exactly the point. The hate speech and deranged conspiracy theories that are all over the right wing and Ron Paul libertarian sites are dangerous, precisely because they tweak the crazies like Bedell and inspire them to violent crimes.

Yeah. Conspiracy theorists are used to their ideas receiving public derision, so when they suddenly get bolstered by popular movements, highly-rated news sources & talking heads, and unscrupulous Washington pols it wouldn't be shocking if their fatalistic paranoia gets kicked into overdrive.

94 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:45:26pm

re: #78 MikeySDCA

That's where they meet, in tyranny.

Yet both also claim and sell visions of a state-free society with absolute liberty. Be it Marx seeing the state melt away as the last stage of a dialectical process, or Hitler promising the freedom and prosperity that Lebensraum would deliver.

Implied in all of it is the elimination of "the other" so that the utopian ideal can finally unfold.

95 Cato the Elder  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:45:46pm

re: #5 Charles

Right -- Walker is trying to deny that Bedell's twisted anti-government ideology comes straight out of extreme right libertarianism. And why would he do that at a libertarian website? Hmm. It's a head-scratcher.

When you're crazee and you know it, nothing else will make you madder than someone calling you crazee. It's enough to drive one mad.

96 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:45:54pm

re: #94 karmic_inquisitor

Which is why Rand is really rather Marxist, in the end.

97 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:46:03pm

re: #92 brookly red

we need a program or something to keep track...

Or, we could just all agree that no one is allowed to go crazy and attack any government facilities for...a while.

"You heard the sheriff, boys. No more shootin' till the sun goes down!"

"Is that what he said?"

"That's close enough, brother. Drinks are on the house!"

--Support Your Local Sheriff

98 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:46:14pm

re: #90 cliffster

Me and my buddies used to do that to each other. Strong friendships, we had

Wow, really. The only time me and my buddies ever did anything remotely like that is when we put make-up on a passed out guy, and he had it coming after he took a leak on the carpet right in the middle of the living room.

I can't imagine doing that to someone just for the hell of it.

99 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:47:01pm

How's this for a possible motive: Bedell's research proposal was previously rejected by the Pentagon.

Curiously, Bedell also proposed in 2004 that the Pentagon fund his own research on smart weapons. The 28-page proposal outlined his idea for DNA nanotechnology research that might "provide significant new capabilities for the Department of Defense and the individual warfighter."


[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]

100 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:47:29pm

re: #96 Obdicut

Which is why Rand is really rather Marxist, in the end.

Ayn Rand or Rand Paul?

Answered my own question - BOTH!

101 windsagio  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:47:35pm

re: #99 Spare O'Lake

How's this for a possible motive: Bedell's research proposal was previously rejected by the Pentagon.


[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]

You really don't want it to be about the rad/lib (hah a pun!) rhetoric, do you?

102 darthstar  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:47:37pm

re: #14 iceweasel

Breitbart's probably jealous of all the positive attention Liz Cheney's been getting for her "Al Qaeda 7" web ad.

This will probably even have James O'Keefe demanding Breitbart be dismissed as a character witness.

Breitbart's lost it.

103 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:47:53pm

re: #99 Spare O'Lake

How's this for a possible motive: Bedell's research proposal was previously rejected by the Pentagon.

[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]

Did this guy have a background in nanotech that would make such a proposal even vaguely feasible?

104 brookly red  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:47:56pm

re: #97 SanFranciscoZionist

Or, we could just all agree that no one is allowed to go crazy and attack any government facilities for...a while.

"You heard the sheriff, boys. No more shootin' till the sun goes down!"

"Is that what he said?"

"That's close enough, brother. Drinks are on the house!"

--Support Your Local Sheriff

well why not since gun free zones work out so well...

105 Virginia Plain  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:48:18pm

re: #99 Spare O'Lake

How's this for a possible motive: Bedell's research proposal was previously rejected by the Pentagon.


[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]

This is just one motive.

On a related note, I would love to see his notes on this so-called project.

106 cliffster  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:48:28pm

re: #98 Slumbering Behemoth

it always seemed like a good idea the night we were doing it. Much more so than the following morning.

107 windsagio  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:49:30pm

re: #106 cliffster

So magical elixirs were involved >>

108 brookly red  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:49:43pm

re: #99 Spare O'Lake

How's this for a possible motive: Bedell's research proposal was previously rejected by the Pentagon.


[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]

sheesh...well it's not like he was denied tenure or something.

109 researchok  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:49:47pm

re: #65 pharmmajor

If you'll forgive me for posting this, Penn Jillette has a counterpoint for this argument:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CoLAbRKczo

Gillette is right- the problem isn't the free speech. That said, there are crazies out there who will be influenced, on both sides of the political spectrum. PETA has inspired violent crime, as has ELF.

No one is saying that free speech needs to be curtailed. Still, free speech comes with a price. There are crazies out there who will go off. Some require more provocation, some less. We just can't pretend that there are no consequences to what is being said.

Look at this way: Advertisers spend millions of dollars on 30 second ads to get you to change your behavior and buy their product. They've been doing that for generations. Imagine what listening to hours and hours of incessant hard line Righties/Lefties bent on changing your beliefs will do to some people.

110 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:49:51pm

Politics aside, Media Matters really need to consider how to format a page of text. Their format is pretty much unreadable. Paragraph breaks, random font sizes, links that go nowhere (other than their own pages). This article isn't too bad but it usually looks like one of those old school ransom notes created by pasting together letters cut out of a magazine.

111 shiplord kirel  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:50:23pm

re: #99 Spare O'Lake

How's this for a possible motive: Bedell's research proposal was previously rejected by the Pentagon.


[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]

Well, we know how intrigued these lefty/peacenik types are with bio-weapons.....
///

112 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:50:24pm

re: #105 Virginia Plain

This is just one motive.

On a related note, I would love to see his notes on this so-called project.

Indeed. If it's half as good as the pot-as-currency bit, it's bound to rival the best fiction on the market...

113 Virginia Plain  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:51:02pm

re: #112 Aceofwhat?

Indeed. If it's half as good as the pot-as-currency bit, it's bound to rival the best fiction on the market...

It'll give L. Ron Hubbard a run for his money.

114 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:51:11pm

re: #109 researchok

Gillette is right- the problem isn't the free speech. That said, there are crazies out there who will be influenced, on both sides of the political spectrum. PETA has inspired violent crime, as has ELF.

No one is saying that free speech needs to be curtailed. Still, free speech comes with a price. There are crazies out there who will go off. Some require more provocation, some less. We just can't pretend that there are no consequences to what is being said.

Look at this way: Advertisers spend millions of dollars on 30 second ads to get you to change your behavior and buy their product. They've been doing that for generations. Imagine what listening to hours and hours of incessant hard line Righties/Lefties bent on changing your beliefs will do to some people.

but i neeeded the slap chop...really i did...

115 cliffster  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:51:13pm

re: #107 windsagio

So magical elixirs were involved >>

hehehe. Oh yes.

116 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:51:46pm

re: #101 windsagio

You really don't want it to be about the rad/lib (hah a pun!) rhetoric, do you?

I try to have an open mind.
I do wish you would try to put a lid on your obsession with telling people around here what they are thinking and what they should think.

117 brookly red  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:51:51pm

re: #111 shiplord kirel

Well, we know how intrigued these lefty/peacenik types are with bio-weapons...
///

they are organic :)

118 windsagio  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:52:38pm

re: #116 Spare O'Lake

I'll keep that in mind ;)

Clarity is good tho'

119 Locker  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:53:12pm

re: #116 Spare O'Lake

I try to have an open mind.
I do wish you would try to put a lid on your obsession with telling people around here what they are thinking and what they should think.

You don't seem to be able to tell the difference between a person telling you what you are thinking and a person observing your actions.

120 shiplord kirel  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:53:15pm

re: #117 brookly red

they are organic :)

I hadn't thought of that. We could pitch bio as the "green wmd," the alternative to nukes and poison gas.

121 Cato the Elder  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:53:23pm

Chorus of Beck fans, Shriekers, Rodants and Tax-Free Killers:

If you're crazee and you know it stomp your feet [stomp, stomp]
If you're crazee and you know it stomp your feet [stomp, stomp]
If you're crazee and you know it and you really wanna show it,
If you're crazee and you know it stomp your feet
[stomp, stomp]

Stomp, two, three four, off the cliff and into the gore!

122 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:53:33pm

re: #110 Killgore Trout

The links look like they are to Media Matters, but they really go elsewhere (most of them.) I don't know why they write them that way.

123 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:54:03pm

re: #9 RogueOne

Boy. Talk about forgetting to pay a bill.

124 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:54:31pm

re: #111 shiplord kirel

The whole concept of DNA based bio-weaponry is just creepy. If I say anything more, I may Godwin the entire thread.

125 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:54:49pm

Which reminds me -

Ted Kaczynski was another "liberty" driven violent nut who resented his brilliance not being universally recognized.

He was also a hoodie trendsetter.

In the same way that Aum Shinrykyo set the aesthetic trend for gamers.

126 brookly red  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:55:27pm

re: #120 shiplord kirel

I hadn't thought of that. We could pitch bio as the "green wmd," the alternative to nukes and poison gas.

sure... and if you make em right they wont even harm cute animals. well except that there wont be anyone around to feed em...

127 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:55:50pm

re: #103 SanFranciscoZionist

Did this guy have a background in nanotech that would make such a proposal even vaguely feasible?

I have no idea. But imagine the ruckus if it turns out he was some kind of crazy wannabe scientist. OMFG.

128 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:56:38pm

re: #127 Spare O'Lake

What on earth are you talking about?

129 windsagio  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:57:09pm

re: #125 karmic_inquisitor

Which reminds me -

Ted Kaczynski was another "liberty" driven violent nut who resented his brilliance not being universally recognized.

He was also a hoodie trendsetter.

In the same way that Aum Shinrykyo set the aesthetic trend for gamers.

Kaczynski is good to remind us that the right has a monopoly on neither libertarianism, nor crazies.

Also, the Aum guy looks like he's wearing a pair of Hef's pajamas.

130 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:57:53pm

re: #128 Obdicut

What on earth are you talking about?

i thought it was hilarious. i'm assuming it was meant in jest, of course...

131 brookly red  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:57:54pm

re: #124 Slumbering Behemoth

The whole concept of DNA based bio-weaponry is just creepy. If I say anything more, I may Godwin the entire thread.

heh heh heh, now if I could just isolate the gene that makes people like Pineapple Pizza...

132 Cato the Elder  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:58:17pm

re: #129 windsagio

Kaczynski is good to remind us that the right has a monopoly on neither libertarianism, nor crazies.

Also, the Aum guy looks like he's wearing a pair of Hef's pajamas.

Actually he looks like Adam Gadahn after a pizza party.

133 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:58:42pm

re: #119 Locker

You don't seem to be able to tell the difference between a person telling you what you are thinking and a person observing your actions.

You too? How ironic.

134 darthstar  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:58:45pm

re: #127 Spare O'Lake

I have no idea. But imagine the ruckus if it turns out he was some kind of crazy wannabe scientist. OMFG.

Here's a link to one of his papers

135 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 1:59:49pm

re: #128 Obdicut

What on earth are you talking about?

What on earth are you talking about?

136 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:00:01pm

re: #131 brookly red

heh heh heh, now if I could just isolate the gene that makes people like Pineapple Pizza...

Nooo! Veggie pizza with extra Pineapples!

137 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:00:03pm

re: #125 karmic_inquisitor

I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people. Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?
-Tom Smykowski, Office Space

138 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:00:19pm

re: #131 brookly red

heh heh heh, now if I could just isolate the gene that makes people like Pineapple Pizza...

throw chicken on that list too...just me...

139 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:00:47pm

re: #131 brookly red

Fruit pizza is pie.

Pie is good.

I like pie.

140 windsagio  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:01:27pm

re: #138 Aceofwhat?

If done right it's okay, kinda trickier imo >>

141 shiplord kirel  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:02:34pm

re: #125 karmic_inquisitor

Which reminds me -

Ted Kaczynski was another "liberty" driven violent nut who resented his brilliance not being universally recognized.

He was also a hoodie trendsetter.

In the same way that Aum Shinrykyo set the aesthetic trend for gamers.

Aum honcho Shoko Asahara was sentenced to hang for his part in the 1995 sarin gas attack in Tokyo. He is still on death row, or the Japanese equivalent, but a recent appeal failed so he may get the long delayed necktie party in the very near future. Aum Shinrikyo itself is still in business, having been re-named "Aleph."

142 brookly red  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:03:00pm

re: #136 HoosierHoops

Nooo! Veggie pizza with extra Pineapples!

re: #139 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Fruit pizza is pie.

Pie is good.

I like pie.

would you 2 mind donating a small lock of hair... strictly for sicentifical type purposes, of course ;)

143 Kragar  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:03:38pm

re: #141 shiplord kirel

Aum honcho Shoko Asahara was sentenced to hang for his part in the 1995 sarin gas attack in Tokyo. He is still on death row, or the Japanese equivalent, but a recent appeal failed so he may get the long delayed necktie party in the very near future. Aum Shinrikyo itself is still in business, having been re-named "Aleph."

Good friend of my wife got injured in that attack. I remember visiting her in the hospital up in Tokyo.

144 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:03:56pm

re: #135 Spare O'Lake

Playing the "repeat" game is something that most people get over when they're young.

I'm asking you what your post about him being a wannabee scientist is supposed to mean. I can't make head or tail of it.

145 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:04:22pm

re: #142 brookly red

would you 2 mind donating a small lock of hair... strictly for sicentifical type purposes, of course ;)

Do you have some kryptonite scissors?

146 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:04:42pm

re: #134 darthstar

Here's a link to one of his papers

This is a job for Ludwig!

147 windsagio  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:05:04pm

re: #146 Spare O'Lake

I admit, I don't know enough to tell if they're actually insane or not >

148 windsagio  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:05:12pm

re: #147 windsagio

I wanna know tho!

149 Virginia Plain  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:05:14pm

re: #141 shiplord kirel

Aum honcho Shoko Asahara was sentenced to hang for his part in the 1995 sarin gas attack in Tokyo. He is still on death row, or the Japanese equivalent, but a recent appeal failed so he may get the long delayed necktie party in the very near future.

I wonder if he still spews his rubbish in prison, like Mumia Abu Jamal.

150 darthstar  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:05:34pm

re: #134 darthstar

Here's a link to one of his papers

Dear god...looking through this reminds me of a book my grandfather wrote in the late 40s/early 50s about the dangers of X-Rays and Gamma Rays...I think my ex wife ended up with it...it was about 50-60 pages, pocket sized, and he'd penned notes for a revision he would never complete. The one thing I remember from it is his writing "Gamma Rays can kill you, so if someone points a Gamma-Ray device at you, do not hesitate, but SHOOT the son of a bitch with buckshot" Yes...my grandfather was a little bit off, paranoid, etc. But he had a cool name: Ralph Emerson McCabe.

151 SixDegrees  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:05:38pm

re: #103 SanFranciscoZionist

Did this guy have a background in nanotech that would make such a proposal even vaguely feasible?

I read through his proposal - or maybe it was a summary of it - somewhere the other day. I understood every word of it.

And even several pairs of words.

Beyond that, it is, sadly, very typical of the screeds constantly published by those with untreated bipolar disorder - rambling and incoherent, but with a good grasp of a specialized vocabulary that the victim has, for whatever reason, latched on to. Beyond superficial mastery of terminology, though, it was difficult to impossible to find anything resembling an actual, complete thought, or even a sentence with a beginning, middle and end. It read quite clearly as the ravings of someone who was quite insane.

152 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:06:17pm

re: #140 windsagio

If done right it's okay, kinda trickier imo >>

heh. whether one can put something on pizza and whether one ought to...

153 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:06:19pm

re: #145 HoosierHoops

Do you have some kryptonite scissors?

Wait! I thought that Superman's hair could only be cut with mirrors and his laser vision.

154 avanti  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:06:41pm

Beck is now claiming that the reason most of the federal lands are out west is because of the rise of progressives after westward expansion.
And here I thought is was because much of it is wilderness.

155 cliffster  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:06:58pm

re: #150 darthstar

Dear god...looking through this reminds me of a book my grandfather wrote in the late 40s/early 50s about the dangers of X-Rays and Gamma Rays...I think my ex wife ended up with it...it was about 50-60 pages, pocket sized, and he'd penned notes for a revision he would never complete. The one thing I remember from it is his writing "Gamma Rays can kill you, so if someone points a Gamma-Ray device at you, do not hesitate, but SHOOT the son of a bitch with buckshot" Yes...my grandfather was a little bit off, paranoid, etc. But he had a cool name: Ralph Emerson McCabe.

Where's his Waldo?

156 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:06:59pm

re: #142 brookly red

would you 2 mind donating a small lock of hair... strictly for sicentifical type purposes, of course ;)

Can't mess up my John Goodman good looks. Ask Walter.

157 brookly red  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:07:18pm

re: #150 darthstar

Dear god...looking through this reminds me of a book my grandfather wrote in the late 40s/early 50s about the dangers of X-Rays and Gamma Rays...I think my ex wife ended up with it...it was about 50-60 pages, pocket sized, and he'd penned notes for a revision he would never complete. The one thing I remember from it is his writing "Gamma Rays can kill you, so if someone points a Gamma-Ray device at you, do not hesitate, but SHOOT the son of a bitch with buckshot" Yes...my grandfather was a little bit off, paranoid, etc. But he had a cool name: Ralph Emerson McCabe.

/good thing he didn't know about cell phones...

158 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:09:07pm

re: #129 windsagio

Kaczynski is good to remind us that the right has a monopoly on neither libertarianism, nor crazies.

Also, the Aum guy looks like he's wearing a pair of Hef's pajamas.

Ted Kaczynnski's manifesto was actually in line with some of the more rightward views of technology and tehnological society. Jacques Ellul had a fairly sobering assessment of the impact of technology on freedom of thought and action as did S I Hayakawa. Not that such was the exclusive property of the right - by no means, as a quick read of Marcuse will bear out - but the idea that a technological society itself creates boundaries on our freedoms and choices is a long running theme on the right.

159 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:09:16pm

re: #156 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Can't mess up my John Goodman good looks. Ask Walter.

Donny: What the fuck is he talking about?
The Dude: My rug.
Walter Sobchak: Forget it, Donny, you're out of your element!

160 avanti  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:09:25pm

OK, as predicted, Beck talking about banning fishing. "No more fishing"

161 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:10:02pm

re: #158 karmic_inquisitor

Ted Kaczynnski's manifesto was actually in line with some of the more rightward views of technology and tehnological society. Jacques Ellul had a fairly sobering assessment of the impact of technology on freedom of thought and action as did S I Hayakawa. Not that such was the exclusive property of the right - by no means, as a quick read of Marcuse will bear out - but the idea that a technological society itself creates boundaries on our freedoms and choices is a long running theme on the right.

so are you saying the right will expel me for this barcode tattoo, yes or no??

162 reine.de.tout  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:10:13pm

re: #154 avanti

Beck is now claiming that the reason most of the federal lands are out west is because of the rise of progressives after westward expansion.
And here I thought is was because much of it is wilderness.

And unpopulated.
That's what I thought too.
Guess he showed us!

163 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:10:55pm

re: #150 darthstar

Dear god...looking through this reminds me of a book my grandfather wrote in the late 40s/early 50s about the dangers of X-Rays and Gamma Rays...I think my ex wife ended up with it...it was about 50-60 pages, pocket sized, and he'd penned notes for a revision he would never complete. The one thing I remember from it is his writing "Gamma Rays can kill you, so if someone points a Gamma-Ray device at you, do not hesitate, but SHOOT the son of a bitch with buckshot" Yes...my grandfather was a little bit off, paranoid, etc. But he had a cool name: Ralph Emerson McCabe.

Charles should put up an "insane relative stories overnight thread" sometime so we can all share. It would be a sleepless night for me.

164 avanti  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:12:00pm

re: #162 reine.de.tout

And unpopulated.
That's what I thought too.
Guess he showed us!

Yep, it's a government takeover of public property, and you know where that's headed.

165 cliffster  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:12:11pm

re: #154 avanti

Beck is now claiming that the reason most of the federal lands are out west is because of the rise of progressives after westward expansion.
And here I thought is was because much of it is wilderness.

Or because the Northeast was pretty much doled out by the time federal lands became a big deal.

166 brookly red  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:12:22pm

re: #161 Aceofwhat?

so are you saying the right will expel me for this barcode tattoo, yes or no??

that must be a hoot in the self check out line...

167 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:12:53pm

re: #160 avanti

OK, as predicted, Beck talking about banning fishing. "No more fishing"

We should create a fake White House Memo on "banning subtlety" and "leak" it to Glenn Beck. I think his head would end up exploding.

168 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:13:37pm

re: #144 Obdicut

Playing the "repeat" game is something that most people get over when they're young.

I'm asking you what your post about him being a wannabee scientist is supposed to mean. I can't make head or tail of it.

Very well, but keep in mind this is based on nothing more than the CBS story which I quoted from earlier, and is purely speculative at this point.

If he was a frustrated research scientist who was acting out his insane rage at having been rejected by the Pentagon, then this would tend to put the boots to the currently debated left vs. right political motivation, in favour of some kind of financial or egotistical motive.
On top of that, imagine the anti-science crowd's gleeful reaction if they could pin this thing on a mad scientist.

169 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:13:49pm

re: #166 brookly red

that must be a hoot in the self check out line...

that's usually my spot...the cashiers tend to look at me as if i were the spawn of something//

170 brookly red  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:14:28pm

re: #169 Aceofwhat?

that's usually my spot...the cashiers tend to look at me as if i were the spawn of something//

Rahm? is that you?

171 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:15:04pm

re: #163 karmic_inquisitor

Charles should put up an "insane relative stories overnight thread" sometime so we can all share. It would be a sleepless night for me.

My uncle belonged to the Church of Satan.

172 avanti  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:15:08pm

re: #167 karmic_inquisitor

We should create a fake White House Memo on "banning subtlety" and "leak" it to Glenn Beck. I think his head would end up exploding.

The clip from Andy Griffith with him going fishing with his kid was a nice touch to the "fishing ban" story.

173 darthstar  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:16:54pm

re: #155 cliffster

Heh...just googled him and found two interesting things:

First, his WW1 info:

Ralph Emerson McCabe
No Serial Number, Maumee, Ohio, born on 23 December 1898, in Maumee, Ohio, white, enlisted 1 July 1918, at Toledo, Ohio, in Parris Island Summary Court 26 June 1918, transferred Overseas Depot, Quantico, Virginia, 27 August 1918, transferred to Company F, 13th Regiment, France, 25 September 1918, joined Embarkation Camp 9 January 1919, transferred to Casual Company 140, 20 January 1919, transferred to 11th Company, Quantico, Virginia, 12 February 1919, service with American Expeditionary Forces 25 September 1918-30 January 1919, discharged 28 May 1919, character excellent, file number 126872.
Article: June 28, 1918

And I believe this was his effort as well...he always considered himself an inventor...when I knew him, he was building his own geiger counter and used it to check the radiation levels in his food...

174 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:17:04pm

re: #172 avanti

The clip from Andy Griffith with him going fishing with his kid was a nice touch to the "fishing ban" story.

I always called Beck a Clown...But somewhere I read today that he is really a Carnival barker..Perfect call

175 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:17:18pm

re: #164 avanti

Yep, it's a government takeover of public property, and you know where that's headed.


And because Progressives like Teddy Roosevelt wanted to see these lands preserved for the "common good", which is just progressivist/liberalist "to each according to his needs, from each according to his abilities" propaganda: Private Enterprise would've done a much better job preserving Yellowstone and Yosemite and making them accessible to all Americans who earned enough to pay admission, i.e., those who deserve it.

176 darthstar  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:18:09pm

re: #171 Alouette

My uncle belonged to the Church of Satan.

Satan worshippers are actually Christian, as Satan is a Christian concept, and created as the opposite of God.

177 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:18:21pm

re: #168 Spare O'Lake

Oh, so it's an 'if a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his ass-a-hopping' thing?

Sure. If, like the teacher who was denied tenure and shot people over having been denied tenure, he acted just in response to the rejection, people would be pointing to that as the 'reason' he did it. However, since the reason he submitted the proposal to the Pentagon in the first place is that he's a nutso libertarian, your point is pretty much moot.

On top of that, imagine the anti-science crowd's gleeful reaction if they could pin this thing on a mad scientist.

Imagine the anti-snowboarding crow'd's gleeful reaction if they could pin this thing on a mad snowboarder.

178 brookly red  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:19:43pm

re: #176 darthstar

Satan worshippers are actually Christian, as Satan is a Christian concept, and created as the opposite of God.

I think some other religions recognize an "evil one" too...

179 avanti  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:19:44pm

re: #175 ralphieboy

And because Progressives like Teddy Roosevelt wanted to see these lands preserved for the "common good", which is just progressivist/liberalist "to each according to his needs, from each according to his abilities" propaganda: Private Enterprise would've done a much better job preserving Yellowstone and Yosemite and making them accessible to all Americans who earned enough to pay admission, i.e., those who deserve it.

Yep, we'd have roller coaster rides to the bottom of the Grand Canyon and resort hotels on the rim.

180 SixDegrees  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:19:45pm

OT: Charles, my WebDeveloper Firefox plugin is showing a JavaScript error being thrown by your pages every few seconds. The message isn't terribly helpful:

Warning: Unknown pseudo-class or pseudo-element 'last'.
Source File: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
Line: 0

but I thought I'd pass it along. It doesn't seem to be causing any harm other than to annoy the JavaScript interpreter.

181 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:20:12pm

re: #171 Alouette

My uncle belonged to the Church of Satan.

IIRC, L. Ron Hubbard hung out with John Parsons for a while, a committed devoté of Alistair Crowley for a while. Talk about a confluence of eeevil...

182 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:20:33pm

re: #170 brookly red

Rahm? is that you?

don't make me take this towel off...

183 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:20:57pm

re: #182 Aceofwhat?

Is there another, uglier towel underneath it?

184 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:21:28pm

re: #176 darthstar

Satan worshippers are actually Christian, as Satan is a Christian concept, and created as the opposite of God.

I think he joined in order to snort cocaine off the breasts of the naked altar girl.

185 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:22:10pm

re: #177 Obdicut

Imagine the anti-snowboarding crow'd's gleeful reaction if they could pin this thing on a mad snowboarder.

That is a perversion of the message of snowboarding, you felchard//

186 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:22:32pm

re: #184 Alouette

I think he joined in order to snort cocaine off the breasts of the naked altar girl.

...and your point is...

187 avanti  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:22:44pm

re: #184 Alouette

I think he joined in order to snort cocaine off the breasts of the naked altar girl.

Substitute "lick whipped cream" and I'm in.

188 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:23:12pm

re: #177 Obdicut

Oh, so it's an 'if a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his ass-a-hopping' thing?

Sure. If, like the teacher who was denied tenure and shot people over having been denied tenure, he acted just in response to the rejection, people would be pointing to that as the 'reason' he did it. However, since the reason he submitted the proposal to the Pentagon in the first place is that he's a nutso libertarian, your point is pretty much moot.

What on earth are you talking about?

Imagine the anti-snowboarding crow'd's gleeful reaction if they could pin this thing on a mad snowboarder.

189 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:23:15pm

re: #183 Obdicut

Is there another, uglier towel underneath it?

i yield

190 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:23:18pm

re: #185 Aceofwhat?

This is a friend of mine's place.

[Link: www.frontsidecoffee.com...]

If you're ever up in North Conway, let me know and he'll treat you right.

191 brookly red  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:23:38pm

re: #184 Alouette

I think he joined in order to snort cocaine off the breasts of the naked altar girl.

didn't they have clubs around there?

192 darthstar  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:23:50pm

re: #184 Alouette

I think he joined in order to snort cocaine off the breasts of the naked altar girl.

Now THAT'S what I call a church recruiting tool.

193 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:24:01pm

re: #187 avanti

Substitute "lick whipped cream" and I'm in.

In Morocco, they would paint virgins with honey, chase them through the pollinating hemp plants and then lick their bodies...

194 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:24:09pm

re: #190 Obdicut

This is a friend of mine's place.

[Link: www.frontsidecoffee.com...]

If you're ever up in North Conway, let me know and he'll treat you right.

best. coffee. shop. name. ever.

thanks for the link

195 brookly red  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:24:10pm

re: #187 avanti

Substitute "lick whipped cream" and I'm in.

sign here please...

196 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:25:01pm

re: #193 ralphieboy

In Morocco, they would paint virgins with honey, chase them through the pollinating hemp plants and then lick their bodies...

pollinating = bees. yikes.

197 SixDegrees  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:25:27pm

re: #193 ralphieboy

In Morocco, they would paint virgins with honey, chase them through the pollinating hemp plants and then lick their bodies...

Well, that explains what Hope and Crosby were doing there, anyway.

198 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:26:19pm

re: #141 shiplord kirel

Aum honcho Shoko Asahara was sentenced to hang for his part in the 1995 sarin gas attack in Tokyo. He is still on death row, or the Japanese equivalent, but a recent appeal failed so he may get the long delayed necktie party in the very near future. Aum Shinrikyo itself is still in business, having been re-named "Aleph."

Considering the nature of his crime, I would say the gas chamber would be more appropriate.

199 darthstar  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:26:39pm

re: #177 Obdicut


Imagine the anti-snowboarding crow'd's gleeful reaction if they could pin this thing on a mad snowboarder.

I got over my irrational dislike for snowboarders years ago. Now I simply ski up to them, say, "Oh, you broke your collar-bone/shoulder/arm/wrist/etc...let me call a sled and take you to first aid. This is going to hurt like hell..."

200 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:26:49pm

re: #197 SixDegrees

Well, that explains what Hope and Crosby were doing there, anyway.


And Stills, Nash and Crosby as well...

201 waste93  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:27:20pm

'The allegation doesn’t withstand scrutiny, simply because dangerous, anti-government rhetoric is not part of today’s liberal dialogue.'

Have to disagree with this. ALF and ELF are probably considered 'liberal'. The fact is that there are wacko extremists on all sides. It wouldn't be hard to point to the signs displayed by a number of 'liberals' and anti-war protests and the like that are comparable.

Trying to say that all the extremists on one side or the other is dishonest and lessens the credibility of the article over all by trying to claim so.

202 windsagio  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:27:43pm

re: #168 Spare O'Lake

Which is exactly what it seemed like you meant.

Defend the Brand, eh?

203 darthstar  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:27:47pm

re: #197 SixDegrees

Well, that explains what Hope and Crosby were doing there, anyway.

I loved those movies with Bob and Bing...classics.

204 cliffster  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:27:48pm

re: #190 Obdicut

This is a friend of mine's place.

[Link: www.frontsidecoffee.com...]

If you're ever up in North Conway, let me know and he'll treat you right.

Trippy mouseovers

205 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:28:02pm

re: #194 Aceofwhat?

Austin (my friend, who owns it) is a great guy. Totally chill dude.

206 SixDegrees  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:30:17pm

re: #203 darthstar

I loved those movies with Bob and Bing...classics.

They're all good. My personal favorite is The Road to Utopia. I once used the screenname "Hakim Zambini" in homage to that movie, about as obscure a reference as any I've run across.

207 windsagio  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:30:29pm

re: #201 waste93

The left is just as bad, so shut up!

That's hardly a new line of discussion around here.

The problem is, sure the left has kooks, but the right has a whole rhetoric machine right now, including prominent politicians and national media shows, pressing this kind of anti-government madness.

208 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:30:39pm

re: #188 Spare O'Lake

I'm sorry, were you trying to just post "What on earth are you talking about" again, but messed up the formatting?

209 brookly red  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:30:46pm

re: #193 ralphieboy

In Morocco, they would paint virgins with honey, chase them through the pollinating hemp plants and then lick their bodies...

history has many examples of the relationship between virginity & being able to run fast...

210 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:31:22pm

re: #192 darthstar

Now THAT'S what I call a church recruiting tool.

But, he got busted for doing cocaine and boinking underage girls, and "the Devil made me do it!" didn't go over well with the jury...

211 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:31:45pm

re: #154 avanti

Beck is now claiming that the reason most of the federal lands are out west is because of the rise of progressives after westward expansion.
And here I thought is was because much of it is wilderness.

He must be right, no? And all that great weather being out west? A reward from Gaia to her tree hugging worshipers.

Proof!

212 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:32:40pm

re: #199 darthstar

I got over my irrational dislike for snowboarders years ago. Now I simply ski up to them, say, "Oh, you broke your collar-bone/shoulder/arm/wrist/etc...let me call a sled and take you to first aid. This is going to hurt like hell..."

As someone who learned at 20 after skiing since 5, I find the simple motion of carving down the hill more enjoyable on a board. I don't know why...it feels like more of a ride.

But i put my skis on when the terrain is bumpy. I'm dumb but i'm not stupid//

214 windsagio  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:33:34pm

re: #212 Aceofwhat?

So are there Sharks vs. Jets style fights on the slopes?

215 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:33:58pm

re: #210 Alouette

But, he got busted for doing cocaine and boinking underage girls, and "the Devil made me do it!" didn't go over well with the jury...

At least it was a more honest, if still invalid, attempt at using that particular bit of logic/

216 brookly red  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:34:53pm

re: #214 windsagio

So are there Sharks vs. Jets style fights on the slopes?

/ski-by shootings are becoming an every day thing...

217 windsagio  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:35:16pm

re: #216 brookly red

The Aspen 'hood!

218 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:35:47pm

re: #214 windsagio

So are there Sharks vs. Jets style fights on the slopes?

More like private grumbling. Skis offer unparalleled control...no boarder with a few brain cells left (yes, that does exclude some) would ever try to start something on the move with a skier. A quick analogy would be "like getting into a hockey fight without skates".

219 windsagio  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:36:31pm

re: #218 Aceofwhat?

that is utterly dissapointing.

How about drunken rumbles in the ski-lodges?

220 Gus  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:37:26pm

Incoming!

Drudge Report links to Prison Planet!

Accusation Coincides With Gov't Cybersecurity Agenda...

Comes with a conspiracy!

Power brokers in the White House have openly declared war on free speech and targeted Internet “conspiracy theorists” as the main threat to their agenda.

In a 2008 white paper, Obama’s Regulation Czar Cass Sunstein called for the government to tax or even ban outright political opinions of which it disapproved.

On page 14 of Sunstein’s January 2008 white paper entitled “Conspiracy Theories,” the man who is now Obama’s head of information technology in the White House proposed that each of the following measures “will have a place under imaginable conditions” according to the strategy detailed in the essay.

1) Government might ban conspiracy theorizing.

2) Government might impose some kind of tax, financial or otherwise, on those who disseminate such theories.

The ominous spectacle of major free speech websites going dark in supposedly democratic countries is a shocking portend of what the establishment wants to impose on a widespread basis. Only by screaming bloody murder in defense of the last true outpost of free speech – the Internet – and threatening boycotts and aggressive public relations campaigns can we counter the insidious move to silence the only remaining open forum of lawful dissent.

Drudge hearts Alex Jones.

221 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:38:34pm

re: #213 The Sanity Inspector

This little guy's so lonely, he could sleep with a wolverine.

Sorry. The wolverine appears to be ... remembering his wife...

WOLVERINES!

222 brookly red  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:38:45pm

re: #218 Aceofwhat?

More like private grumbling. Skis offer unparalleled control...no boarder with a few brain cells left (yes, that does exclude some) would ever try to start something on the move with a skier. A quick analogy would be "like getting into a hockey fight without skates".

I once had to mix it up with an irate roller-blader... advantage here :)

223 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:40:43pm

re: #219 windsagio

that is utterly dissapointing.

How about drunken rumbles in the ski-lodges?

not really. think of practiced skiers and boarders as the sort of people you'd generally like to surround yourself with//

224 shiplord kirel  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:40:44pm

Eek! Here'a macabre item I came across while researching the Aum Shinrikyo terrorists.

Standard Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for sarin nerve agent.

And you probably thought oven-cleaners were dangerous to have around.

225 windsagio  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:41:21pm

re: #223 Aceofwhat?

Well I am hurt and disillusioned, and am gonna drown my pain in drink.

226 windsagio  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:41:28pm

Peace!

227 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:42:03pm

re: #201 waste93

I would consider those types far-left, and not really 'liberals' per se. 'Radicals' or 'anarchists' would be more appropriate, I think.

228 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:42:22pm

re: #222 brookly red

I once had to mix it up with an irate roller-blader... advantage here :)

Heh. Did some cityscraping on blades for a while as a teen with friends. We could jump waaay more stairs than a skateboarder. I never perfected grinding, though...some things aren't worth the price of bruised nuts...

229 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:42:34pm

re: #57 windsagio

I know you're leaving so I just will have to hope you catch this.

This is exactly what I mean. We think your position is wrong, and are trying to convince you of that. You took an attack on you position as a personal attack. Its a problem.

No. I didn't. I think I've been around here long enough for you to realize I'm not thin skinned but I am sarcastic.

230 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:43:04pm

re: #227 Slumbering Behemoth

Ot - did you get your dose of "LOST" last night?

231 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:44:18pm

re: #68 SanFranciscoZionist

No one perfectly sane does such things. At the same time, no one responsible and virtuous pushes the crazy over the edge.

To take an example, the man who shot Dr. Tiller is probably more than a bit screwed up. But he took up the gun after literally years of Terry Randall and his ilk repeatedly calling in every barely legal way they could for an assassination.

When you get up on a platform and scream about tyranny and terrorism at the White House, you are putting out a casting call for a lone gunman. Anyone who wants to use fiery political rhetoric must understand this.

I almost disagree. I haven't read that Tiller or Hasan were institutionalized on a regular basis. I don't think religious zealots are necessarily "nuts".

232 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:45:21pm

re: #230 Walter L. Newton

Sure did. I appreciate you and Bagua, being in different time zones than myself, not posting spoilers last night.

233 darthstar  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:46:16pm

re: #212 Aceofwhat?

As someone who learned at 20 after skiing since 5, I find the simple motion of carving down the hill more enjoyable on a board. I don't know why...it feels like more of a ride.

But i put my skis on when the terrain is bumpy. I'm dumb but i'm not stupid//

I had a hell of a weekend...good snow. Sunday morning, I was asked to open one of the ridge-lines, and check on a sled we had stashed near the ski area boundary for back country rescues. First hike, I thought I passed it, so I skied down, and took the three lifts required to get back around to the front of the mountain. I hiked the summit again so I could go check the sled (didn't want to fail at a simple task). This time, I traversed around a small peak and skied the ridge for another 1/4 mile before realizing that the traverse I took looped me around the sled. I was so pissed I actually hiked back up the ridge...took me damn near an hour, and pretty much had me exhausted before 11am. Still, the snow was good--at least up top--it turned to heavy crud for the last 1000 vertical...and I survived the day.

234 darthstar  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:48:59pm

re: #218 Aceofwhat?

More like private grumbling. Skis offer unparalleled control...no boarder with a few brain cells left (yes, that does exclude some) would ever try to start something on the move with a skier. A quick analogy would be "like getting into a hockey fight without skates".

Someone I was patrolling with saw a fight between two skiers last weekend. She was riding up the chair and said she heard shouting, so she looked down, and this guy was hitting another guy with his ski pole saying, "You fuckin' apologize!"...well, you know how well that worked...they broke into a fist fight on the slopes. By the time she got to the top of the mountain and skied down to them, they had settled their dispute and skied away.

235 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:50:35pm

re: #232 Slumbering Behemoth

Sure did. I appreciate you and Bagua, being in different time zones than myself, not posting spoilers last night.

Here is my theory of the "science" that going on right now.

Whatever happened at the under construction Swan Station, it caused a "split" and you have some quantum physics going on here. You have a "quantum entanglement" taking place.

From the Wiki entry on "Quantum Entanglements."

"It may appear then that the hidden variables must be in communication no matter how far apart the particles are, that the hidden variable describing one particle must be able to change instantly when the other is measured."

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Einstein called it "spooky action at a distance" which in my mind describes this season quite well up to this point.

Both time lines are comingled, the post 815 landing on in 2004 and the current Island one in 2007. Like Schroedinger cat, the actual state of these participants will not be known until they are "observed" (measured) by some outside entity.

Looking at this with a mystical eye, the timelines will settle to one "state" when their "souls" are measured.

This whole show as been a co-mingling of fictional science and faith.

236 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:51:35pm

re: #233 darthstar

now THAT is living.

237 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:52:44pm

re: #236 Aceofwhat?

now THAT is living.

It sounded like trying to get to the grocery store around here where I live. Snowing right now here.

238 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:54:27pm

re: #237 Walter L. Newton

It sounded like trying to get to the grocery store around here where I live. Snowing right now here.

I would bet that his view was slightly more enviable...

239 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:55:20pm

re: #235 Walter L. Newton

With the island being under water in one time line, do you think that is the result of the nuke detonation, or something else yet to be revealed?

240 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:58:49pm

re: #239 Slumbering Behemoth

With the island being under water in one time line, do you think that is the result of the nuke detonation, or something else yet to be revealed?

No way to know for sure what put it underwater. But this we know. Ben and his father were on the Island, Ben's father was working for Dharma (as in the original timeline) but they left for some reason, and we also know that we saw The Dharma Village on the bottom of the ocean when we saw that shot of the sunken Island.

So, Dharma happened, but we don't know yet what put the Island at the bottom of the sea.

241 SixDegrees  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 2:59:47pm

re: #239 Slumbering Behemoth

With the island being under water in one time line, do you think that is the result of the nuke detonation, or something else yet to be revealed?

That bit was a little confusing to me, since "AR" Ben and his dad made mention of having lived on the island for a while, then leaving and landing in their present situation. The significance of the statue's foot being submerged, then, escapes me, although I'm thinking that the AR side of the show depicts what life would have been like without the "interference" of Jacob, who seems to be responsible for everything that's ever taken place on the island. Perhaps in the AR, the island was just an island, filled with dorks during Linus' time, with all trace of Jacobian influence long gone.

242 lostlakehiker  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:03:49pm

Conservatives believe in limited government. Libertarians believe in virtually no government.

Conservatives tend to accept most of what the government now does as either good and necessary, or an acceptable alternative though not necessarily best. Libertarians tend to think that the government ought to be scaled back to something like five or ten percent of its current budget, with correspondingly fewer employees and functions.

Conservatives support drug laws. Libertarians want all or at least most of the drug laws scrapped. They might consent to banning the sale of heroin to minors under the age of 12.

Conservatives support border patrols and immigration restrictions. Libertarians want walk-in citizenship.

Conservatives support, oddly enough for it was not always thus, a fairly active foreign policy, aimed at securing America by keeping distant storm clouds distant. Libertarians think that a military should only be raised once a war is already raging on home soil.

Conservatives have some sense. Libertarians don't.

And that's why these nutcases we're seeing are coming not from the liberal wing of American politics, nor from the conservative wing, but from the nutcase wing. We conservatives find that for some reason those guys are even less likely to vote Democrat than they are Republican, and any vote we get counts, but we're not comfortable with them. They're not friends. They're at best people who sometimes align themselves with our causes.

We don't own the Republican party. We're just one voice, a big voice, but not the only voice. Without Bill Buckley, maybe not even that big a voice. If the 2008 thrashing didn't teach the Republicans a sufficient lesson, there are more thrashings in store. The public is not nuts, and it doesn't want a party whose leadership is significantly beholden to nuts.

And we can hardly anticipate with glee the other scenario in which we win more seats and gain market share against the Democrats. They may make a big mess of things. Their whole philosophy of government and their whole approach to problems ensures that they will make messes. But how bad? If it's bad enough that the public turns to us in despair, holding noses all the while, we might win some offices. But we cannot achieve anything beyond damage control for the Ship of State unless we can convince voters that the port we aim at is a good port to visit.

243 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:06:17pm

Hmm... Ben and his dad left the island in the '70s with everyone else when the shit hit the fan at the Swan Station. Perhaps they did not go back because there was not island to go back to.

But in the other time line, there was only a crater at the site, with the island still intact. I dunno what's up.

I did like the bits of Linus' story line last night though. Odd that he is sort of a good guy in the other time line, as he would have still been "changed" by being revived in the temple pool.

244 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:12:51pm

re: #242 lostlakehiker

Conservatives support drug laws. Libertarians want all or at least most of the drug laws scrapped.

Wait, so W.F. Buckley Jr. was a Libertarian, not a Conservative?
/

245 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:30:20pm

re: #231 RogueOne

I almost disagree. I haven't read that Tiller or Hasan were institutionalized on a regular basis. I don't think religious zealots are necessarily "nuts".

OK, fair point, although by 'nuts' I do not really mean 'clinically mentally ill'. What about 'political zealots'? Or we could just sub out 'zealot' for 'nut', except that I would say Randall Terry is a zealot, he's just not the kind of zealot who will ever do anything that he could actually go to jail for.

Old Yiddish proverb--'it's good to poke the fire with someone else's hand'. How do we distinguish between those who wish to poke the fire, and those who volunteer to do it with their own hands?

246 garhighway  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:46:44pm

re: #242 lostlakehiker

Conservatives believe in limited government. Libertarians believe in virtually no government.

Conservatives tend to accept most of what the government now does as either good and necessary, or an acceptable alternative though not necessarily best. Libertarians tend to think that the government ought to be scaled back to something like five or ten percent of its current budget, with correspondingly fewer employees and functions.

Conservatives support drug laws. Libertarians want all or at least most of the drug laws scrapped. They might consent to banning the sale of heroin to minors under the age of 12.

Conservatives support border patrols and immigration restrictions. Libertarians want walk-in citizenship.

Conservatives support, oddly enough for it was not always thus, a fairly active foreign policy, aimed at securing America by keeping distant storm clouds distant. Libertarians think that a military should only be raised once a war is already raging on home soil.

Conservatives have some sense. Libertarians don't.

And that's why these nutcases we're seeing are coming not from the liberal wing of American politics, nor from the conservative wing, but from the nutcase wing. We conservatives find that for some reason those guys are even less likely to vote Democrat than they are Republican, and any vote we get counts, but we're not comfortable with them. They're not friends. They're at best people who sometimes align themselves with our causes.

We don't own the Republican party. We're just one voice, a big voice, but not the only voice. Without Bill Buckley, maybe not even that big a voice. If the 2008 thrashing didn't teach the Republicans a sufficient lesson, there are more thrashings in store. The public is not nuts, and it doesn't want a party whose leadership is significantly beholden to nuts.

And we can hardly anticipate with glee the other scenario in which we win more seats and gain market share against the Democrats. They may make a big mess of things. Their whole philosophy of government and their whole approach to problems ensures that they will make messes. But how bad? If it's bad enough that the public turns to us in despair, holding noses all the while, we might win some offices. But we cannot achieve anything beyond damage control for the Ship of State unless we can convince voters that the port we aim at is a good port to visit.

Your "conservative vs libertarian" analysis is interesting, but I think it is only part right. It leaves out the social conservatives, for whom some of your "conservatives want..." formulae are incorrect. SoCons want lots of government on their pet issues, because they want the ability to tell everyone else how to live their lives (on those points).

247 RogueOne  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 3:59:26pm

re: #245 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, fair point, although by 'nuts' I do not really mean 'clinically mentally ill'. What about 'political zealots'? Or we could just sub out 'zealot' for 'nut', except that I would say Randall Terry is a zealot, he's just not the kind of zealot who will ever do anything that he could actually go to jail for.

Old Yiddish proverb--'it's good to poke the fire with someone else's hand'. How do we distinguish between those who wish to poke the fire, and those who volunteer to do it with their own hands?

I've tapped out a response 3 times and each time it didn't even make sense to me so I quit. I'm 90% in agreement with you and I have a good answer to your point but I'm going to have to give you on tuesday.//

248 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 10, 2010 5:02:35pm

re: #247 RogueOne

I've tapped out a response 3 times and each time it didn't even make sense to me so I quit. I'm 90% in agreement with you and I have a good answer to your point but I'm going to have to give you on tuesday.//

OK, I can wait.

;)


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